/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls General

File: 1454196819477.png (162KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

162KB, 480x360px

I'm claiming this thread for the glory of Alkosh, and there's nothing you can do about it.

File: images (1).jpg (15KB, 223x226px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 223x226px

>>53710543
Claim overruled.

Where do you guys want the next video game to be set?

File: 1466309367553.jpg (538KB, 860x1661px) Image search: [Google]

538KB, 860x1661px

>>53711119
You hold no power here.

Don't even care at this point, plus we just have speculation.

>>53711119
Valenwood.

File: 1380445516699.jpg (41KB, 428x425px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 428x425px

>>53710486
>Assholes edition

Really? That's what you're going with? On /tg/?
Well, this should be interesting.

File: images.jpg (12KB, 224x225px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 224x225px

>>53711119
Valenwood or Hammerfell seem like the best bets. I don't know which I'd prefer. Valenwood may have some cool non-traditional creatures we haven't seen before but the terrain could be boring or generic. Hammerfell might have better scenery and cool dwarven ruins but you can expect the animals to be generic (giant scorpions, some type of big cat) and expect the largest bustling port city to have like ~20 people in it.

Lore-wise Valenwood may advance the Dominion storyline and collapse of the Empire we have been waiting for since daggerfall, but Hammerfell has lots of interesting stuff too.

Right now though I want deserts and pirates and araaaaabaian nights

File: 1439159656672.png (938KB, 1280x1700px) Image search: [Google]

938KB, 1280x1700px

I've been trying to play Daggerfall (and failing at the first quest I go on, too), but I'm curious why temples to Zenithar are called 'The Resolution of Z'en.' Isn't Z'en the name of a Bosmer deity?

File: dragonstarstatue.jpg (113KB, 1023x714px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 1023x714px

>>53711119
Hammerfell.

>>53711779
>>53711845
hnnnnggggg

File: sentinel_edge.jpg (774KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

774KB, 1920x1080px

>>53711119
Hammerfell.

>>53711356
>>53711377
>hippy elves living in trees again

What makes this at all interesting?

File: rihad.jpg (166KB, 900x667px) Image search: [Google]

166KB, 900x667px

>>53711830
>>53712200
>>53712852
my redguards

>>53713183
They eat people.

File: oh em gee.jpg (38KB, 233x242px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 233x242px

>>53713260
Oh, nice. Better than Dark Sun's cannibal halflings, at least.

>>53711845
After you've come out of Privateer's Hold, you could start out by raiding graveyards.
They have a small crypt in the centre, which is quick and easy to clear.

Perhaps not the most ethical thing to do, but who cares about the memory of some long-dead Breton?

Z'en and Zenithar are different interpretations of the same thing. Z'en isn't even originally Bosmeri, they imported him.
Plus Bretons already venerate Y'ffre (as Jephre).

>Redguards think they have dominion over Breton waters
>Orcs think the land of High Rock is their's
>Nords claim the snow and ice of the north
BRETON STRONG

>>53713437
I was just dumb with a quest I got from a tavern keeper, asking me to find a book - I mistook a copy of 'The Biography of Barenziah, Part III' for the book he wanted, 'The Real Barenziah, Part III.' The dungeon is far away enough and big enough that I won't possibly find the book in time.

Thanks for the tips on starting out though. Real dungeons are terrifyingly gigantic.

Whats the most boring roleplaying character traits and why is it book boner and dwemer boner

>>53714304
p-pls no, those are my favorites.

File: 200px-Sload_big.jpg (12KB, 200x194px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 200x194px

>>53711119
Thras or Pyandonea

>>53714304
At least they offer some sort of motivation.

My least favourite is:
>"i dunno i just want to travel and stuff"
Because 9/10 times people play it as identity-less and more about reacting than having any driving force. Not saying that you can't do wanderlust right, it just often doesn't work out all that well.

File: 264495_original.jpg (588KB, 1920x814px) Image search: [Google]

588KB, 1920x814px

>>53714304
>not wanting to play a plucky librarian who came to a foreign land to find rare books and knowledge but ended up getting swept into a dramatic adventure beyond your wildest expectations
It's like you hate fun

>>53714351
Will be DLC for ES VI: Dominion

>>53714476
I honestly think Thras could be jam packed into a DLC.

What is the chance of seeing left handed elfs in Elder Scroll VI

>>53714304
But they're both interesting because it's about the accumulation of knowledge, rather than just treasure (which anyone will eventually get enough of after a fairly short time) or martial skill (which can get awkward if the enemy ever levels up with you like in Oblivion or Skyrim).

Imagine a guy going through an entire dungeon full of bandits and undead and whatever, and all he wanted was this book near the end. What the fuck dude, you killed a lot of people for something at your local library.

File: e724d3080799782ed07fe7a2369bbc6c.jpg (106KB, 529x1024px) Image search: [Google]

106KB, 529x1024px

>>53714758
Better that than
>you killed a lot of people at your local library.

>>53711119
>Where do you guys want the next video game to be set?
Elsweyr or the Summerset Isles.
Summerset could be cool to see the fall of the Thalmor from inside

>>53714642
0.
But if it's set in Hammerfell, maybe we'll learn more about them.

>>53711119
>want
if this is an open-ended, "as long as it's elder scrolls and (mostly) on nirn it goes" question, I'd really like a nautical one covering the shores of Akavir and Morrowind, and the islands in between, a la ass creed 4 exploration- and naval-combat-wise. If it's a little less open-ended and confined to Tamriel, then Summerset, and you can only play as an elf (a restriction I wouldn't mind). If it's gotta be something plausible I'd rather they not trash the lore of another region, and I'd really like to see mainland morrowind, or a return to high rock with some more fleshed-out breton lore. And if you meant to ask "where do you think it will take place," obviously Valenwood, which I'll be fine with even if it's far from my first "choice."

File: WkBTnkG.jpg (85KB, 456x604px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 456x604px

>>53711119
Valenwood.

The lore's a nice return to the surrealness of Morrowind, and already written so it'll be hard to fuck up. If it is fucked up, at least I get to bully Fargoths, fuck Bosmeri sluts, and torch their precious jungles while eating a salad.

File: pge01_highrock_pic_06.jpg (84KB, 200x636px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 200x636px

>>53716140
>more fleshed-out Breton lore

Why would they? I know that fans have dug up a lot of interesting tidbits of lore about the Bretons and High Rock, but there doesn't seem to be the same interest from Bethesda. They seem content with the generic medieval, vaguely French/Celtic interpretation.

I am a little hopeful for something more navally-related in general, though. It was disappointing to go through Skyrim and have little in the way of pirates or raiders from the sea, and I think Bethesda picked up on that. Even just 'invading the Summerset Isles' would probably need to make use of ships, so they could easily work it in even if they don't go for your idea specifically.

>>53711779
Does anybody here seriously disagree that AlmSiVi are/were assholes? Dunno how far up your own third aperture your head would have to be to think they were anything but.

>>53711845
>>53713437
>After you've come out of Privateer's Hold, you could start out by raiding graveyards.
>They have a small crypt in the centre, which is quick and easy to clear.
I made a guide for people starting out in Daggerfall for /tesg/ and pastebinned it years ago, wish I'd remembered to bookmark the link. That's like the #1 tip for new players though, if you're willing to do it tomb raiding is absurdly easy and lucrative. #2 is to get a horse and wagon ASAP so you can do more dungeons in a run or ransack entire large dungeons. Secret tip #0 is to turn mouse look on, seems like every time someone I talk to picks up Daggerfall they miss that option and bitch about the controls when it pretty much controls like a modern game when properly configured.

>>53716376
>The lore's a nice return to the surrealness of Morrowind
It's going to be a generic fucking forest. Enjoy your Oblivion 2.0

The main reason I want Hammerfell over it is because they CANNOT fuck Hammerfell up. Also it'll be refreshing.

>>53714180
>Real dungeons are terrifyingly gigantic.
Mark and recall my friend.

>>53716409
>there doesn't seem to be the same interest from Bethesda. They seem content with the generic medieval, vaguely French/Celtic interpretation.
You mean, apart from the forsworn, which are like a vague modern echo of the MK art of bretons and the daggerfall covens?

Keep in mind that right up until Skyrim, Nords were generic vikings sans sea travel and most of their province was corrugated by mountains too steep for any large settlements or lasting agriculture to form outside of coastal areas. The most interesting lore about Skyrim was that Potema and Pelagius came from Solitude, and that Wulfharth was an ancient Nord king. In fact all interesting NORD lore was about Wulfharth because he was the only Nord that wasn't fucking boring. Bretons already have the forsworn, the Direnni and Hjalti going for them.

Of course if you read a bit closer I said that was something plausible that I want, not something likely. What I actually expect is Valenwood.

>>53716449
It won't, and considering ESO made it a jungle and A Dance in Fire is in Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim, most of the lore is going to be hard to replace.

Enjoy FO:NV's orange tinted desert with all the soul, humor, and fun sucked out of it, f'lah.

>>53716516
>most of the lore is going to be hard to replace
Gave me a hearty laugh. Thank you anon.

>>53716516
>It won't,
You know it to be true. No way they're doing the alive trees thing

>>53716516
>Enjoy FO:NV's orange tinted desert
To be fair, as of Fallout 4 BGS has shown that they are actually capable of graphics with shaders other than "smeary speculars" and "a single monochrome tint washing everything out." The gameplay's fucking good too, if we don't see the charisma mechanics in particular in future TES and FO titles I'll be pretty disappointed. Sadly the writing is fucking abysmal.

>>53716547
Even funnier from the guy who said they can't fuck Hammerfell up. At this point I hope it's Hammerfell just to come over here and watch you cry about how it ruined everything.

>>53716549
They already stopped moving.

File: 1458432889687.jpg (239KB, 944x786px) Image search: [Google]

239KB, 944x786px

>>53716511
It's a vague modern echo, but it's also not in High Rock, but in Skyrim. It's sort of like saying the Grey Quarter in Skyrim is an echo of Morrowind, you know? I get that you mean it's something interesting about the Bretons, but they way they're set up in the lore they're treated like their own group - the Bretons of High Rock certainly don't consider them Bretons. If you look at High Rock itself, last we've seen of it before ESO was Daggerfall, and that was pretty generic. ESO isn't much different.

I'm not actually too well-read on pre-Skyrim Nordic lore - I thought it had a lot more ice and a lot more focus on the Nordic pantheon, sort of like Morrowind's Solstheim - well, the colder part of Solstheim. I'm not saying that that was really more interesting than what Skyrim came out with, but Skyrim's take on it felt boring to me. But whatever, I know that I'm in a minority. Gist of what i meant before was that I expected a coastal province with not!Vikings to have a lot more to do with it's coast.

You did make it clear that it was more far out than you thought was possible, I thought that was clear. And I should make it clear I'm just a faggot talking out of my ass in a lot of ways.

>>53716734
the thuum was written about before skyrim afaik

>>53716516
>considering ESO made it a jungle
?

>>53714304
This is a more general roleplaying thing, but Jesus do I hate it when people make characters whose defining trait is "He's random/crazy!".

>>53714304
Sellswords or my whole family was killed by this faction/guy so I must avenge them!

>>53714304
Paladin who is so obviously heading for a fall.

>>53716449

> because they CANNOT fuck Hammerfell up

Setting you expectations low or just being emotionally dead?

>>53716734
>It's a vague modern echo, but it's also not in High Rock, but in Skyrim. It's sort of like saying the Grey Quarter in Skyrim is an echo of Morrowind, you know?
Exactly. It's a watered-down version of what we'd see in High Rock's wilderness. Glenmoril Coven is also still a thing, other covens presumably are as well.

Also I'm not saying Skyrim isn't kinda lame lorewise, but Nords were basically reworked from the ground up (granted there wasn't much "up" to work...) and are vastly more interesting than they were before. Even the region was radically altered, the PGE basically describes it as being almost 100% craggy mountains and narrow valleys and covered in permanent snow, while what we got was a diverse land with hot springs, mountains, tundras, taigas, conifer forests and green valleys, that had actual seasons (the game takes place during the summer, and you can see that most of the province is NOT covered in snow), based on real-life scandinavian landscapes, which is a big improvement imo.

>>53716779
Yeah, the thu'um stood out, mostly because it was a thing Wulfharth did. If you read the original PGE article on nords, it's all bare facts about their early conquests and genocides, and then the one neat cultural note is about the thu'um.

>>53714891
Still better than
>your local library killed a lot of people

>>53716990
Both.

>>53717007
literally the plot of Dragonborn

>>53717020
At least the librarian was cute.

>>53716990
Crowns and forebears are handled like colovians and nibeneans in TES IV (or even worse). Also, redguard pantheon is flushed down from a sink.

>>53714758
If your local library has tomes of ancient powerful spells, I'm moving there.

>>53717322
Would they forget about the ash'abah y/n

Who was that one guy, Nerevar's old friend who muched up the Heart of Lorkhan? I forgot his name. He had really big hands and lots of candles.

>>53717080
Neloth wasn't the librarian, anon...

>>53717586
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RIULSMuW_Q

File: hermaeus_mora_by_shesterrni-d7oktnc.jpg (1MB, 985x1500px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 985x1500px

>>53717612
Are you trying to imply something about Mora?

>>53717631
THAT'S

File: 1436231500803.jpg (279KB, 1680x1050px) Image search: [Google]

279KB, 1680x1050px

>>53717612
Of course not. Neloth is was not the cute one. Hermaeus Mora is.

File: neloth's magical girl transformation.webm (2MB, 800x450px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 800x450px

>>53717966
Reminder that liars tear each other apart forever in Attribution's Share.

>>53717586
Do you think Dagoth Ur's messing with the heart (or the Tribunal, for that matter) affected the state of the kalpa through somehow twisting Lorkhan, even if indirectly?

Why do Daedra worshipers live such unfilled lives compared to those that worship Aedra?

>>53718286
Because they either squat in caves, or descended from poop elves.

>>53718009
That is uncalled for. Hermae is the cutest!

>>53718286
They're either shunned, live in a shithole, are shit, or a combination of the three.

>>53718868
But Markarth is a city. They're proper, working citizens, yet they still find extravagant ways to fuck up their boring, but benign lives.

>>53718286
Most lands worship the Aedra/not the Daedra, so people who worship the Daedra are seen as dangerous.

You also have to remember that most daedra worshipers you meet outside of Morrowind (and I believe Eleswyer?) are worshiping only one daedra. Imagine someone so obsessed over one thing that they're going to join a cult instead of paying due respect to all spirits - especially when those cults often want you to be diseased, or live somewhere that's really dark, or to be cannibals when most races aren't cool with that.

So why is Dagoth Ur objectively the best villain the series has had even though his story is generic?

File: nightouwiththeboys.jpg (269KB, 2560x1902px) Image search: [Google]

269KB, 2560x1902px

>>53720642
>you will never be invited to join the sixth-house

Why even live?

File: 1496972484539.jpg (23KB, 432x604px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 432x604px

>>53720642
>his story is generic
>be Voryn Dagoth
>help friends win a war
>be trusted to guard a part of a dead god
>turn insane
>murdered by your best friend
>resurrected by said heart
>attempt to change the world into your own image using a biomechanical super weapon from a dead race
>murdered once again by your best friend
>after countless ages pass some n'wah on an akaviri tapestry weaving memospore calls your back story generic
This angers the unmourned house.

File: 1448073670393.gif (300KB, 2300x1200px) Image search: [Google]

300KB, 2300x1200px

>>53720642
This is from my fuzzy understanding of the story - because of how it's set up, you're actually invited to understand his motivations and his history, and even as he is your antagonist he sends you letters attempting to treat you as the friend he once knew. He's a well done sympathetic villian - probably so well done because you really can't give him any quarter, for the sake of all of Tamriel.

>But I agree with him and would rather join him!

And that's something you can reflect on after you've destroyed him. Was he really the villain he was made out to be, or was he able to contain his madness and evil behind a mask of sanity? Was the world that you fought to save - with its false Tribunal and its grasping, conniving Emperor - really worth fighting for?

>>53721310
It IS generic.

It's the classic "hero gets corrupted by evil item" trope; see Arthas, Frodo, etc.

File: 0vj19Xz.jpg (126KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 500x500px

>>53721332
>everything is a trope because I looked it up on TVTropes, and that means I can deride everything as cliche because it's been done soooo often in soooo many contexts that I've probably never even read/watched myself to understand why those individual tropes worked in those cases!

Yes, I am mad.

File: 1461226593855.jpg (325KB, 682x5000px) Image search: [Google]

325KB, 682x5000px

>>53721332
I remember when Frodo used the ring to transform Middle Earth into trumpet-nosed zombies and remove the elves from the Shire
In all seriousness his story is just the best out of all the villains in the series.
>Corrupt politician
>Corrupt politicians
>Dead-Not-Dreaming
>OOGABOOGA IM THE BOOGY MAN
>Dragunz n Shiiiieeet

>>53721446
Never said that just because it's a trope it's inherently bad, just that it's been used elsewhere.

I even noted that he's the best villain in the series DESPITE of the rather generic background

File: 1451197152407.png (214KB, 1899x575px) Image search: [Google]

214KB, 1899x575px

>>53720642

File: 1459803264277.jpg (382KB, 1024x545px) Image search: [Google]

382KB, 1024x545px

>>53721752
I know tropes are supposed to be distinct from cliches, but I've mostly seen them treated as such - and I still think it's rather insulting to look at a work and automatically put it into some box.

Even ignoring the question of if he was actually corrupted by the heart or not - there are conflicting sources of information on that front - it's deeming his entire background generic because of that one point. I'm pretty sure some people would get mad at the implication that Frodo and Arthas are generic as well.

File: ashland_by_ogilac-d7wqbg4.jpg (153KB, 1265x632px) Image search: [Google]

153KB, 1265x632px

>>53710486
I've been going to these threads since I was in highschool, so at least over two years.

Two years. It's just crazy to think about. I love you all.

>>53721332
I wouldn't say it's that generic. Tropes are the hammer and nails in the toolbox of story telling. Most stories involve the same tropes, that's why we can categorize them. Making that trope interesting or subverting it in an interesting way is how an author plays with an idea. For example, the idea of an Assassin Guild is a trope, but the Morag Tong is an interesting take on it, and fills a societal niche.

>>53717586
Dagoth Voryn

File: tumblr_ojh6twLQQ21runr2qo1_540.gif (585KB, 473x810px) Image search: [Google]

585KB, 473x810px

>>53722489
We love you too anon. Now sleep.

File: 1457410595219.jpg (227KB, 900x1200px) Image search: [Google]

227KB, 900x1200px

>>53722489
Remember that love is essential to the stability of each kalpa, anon.

>>53722489
Always welcome.

>>53722656
That's Dagoth Ur.

>>53722550
This. Yes, it's a trope, no, that doesn't make it generic.

File: 1446981657971.png (23KB, 926x1034px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 926x1034px

Threadly reminders:
>any and all new deeplore on dwemer will be shit but people won't stop demanding it, so we might have some
>redguards won't be developed beyond Bushido pirates, their religion will never be displayed on the same level as Tribunal Temple was, their spirit swords will be a game gimmick and other races (player character) will be able to produce one as well, within the first days of in-game time
>The Hist will be normified. Hard.
>Tsaesci will never make an appearance that will satisfy the lorenerds
>Summerset Isles and Valenwood will be "muh high fantasy, DnD aesthetic"
>Ayleid lore is dropped and won't be developed further than one or two quests related to clearing a dungeon and getting an item reward
>Moon sugar will never be "not!cocaine", it will never be used to address either the mythical aspect of drug use like induced trances etc. or the serious problems concerning drug addiction and traffic (aside from drugs are bad, m'kay morality, like an actual analysis)
>Daedric Princes will keep on getting streamlined, nothing new will be added to them, they will be used as stock villains or quest givers, every question regarding princes will be answered with either "rule of cool" or "it was the easiest way out for the devs"
>Imga, Sload, varieties of Khajiit, varieties of Bosmer (and the dimorphism), differences of Colovians and Nibenese, Akaviri influence on Septim Empire and it's fate in the 4th Era

Why even fucking live?

>>53711119
Elswyr or Hammerfell.

Because i know the developers are going to be lazy and the tech is still restricted so jungles are going to be out of the picture.

Nothing says lazyness as a big patch of nothing.

Otherwise Summerset and High-Rock are good options.

Let's not forget Akavir as well.

>>53723946
>Ayleid lore is dropped and won't be developed further than one or two quests related to clearing a dungeon and getting an item reward.

Fuck, they can't do this to me! They have bits of language, they're part of an overall patchwork of elven civilizations that thrived on Tamriel before human dominance, they worshiped Daedra and Aedra, they had a distance difference in their ideas on magic, they might have been not!Khajiit birdmen...

I don't care if their dungeons were boring and if they did not exist before Oblivion - they add so much to the setting, more than the Direnni and arguably as much as the Dwemer.

>Summerset Isles and Valenwood will be "muh high fantasy, DnD aesthetic"

My one wish for a TES set in Summerset is that they make bits of Alinor still weird in the 4th era because of the use of Tiber's use of Numidium on the Isles.

I think we're at the level of grafics tech where they can show off the crystal towers and other craziness described in the books nicely.

>>53723946
>when you realize the only good Elder Scrolls games were Daggerfall and Morrowind.

File: 1496111788513.jpg (17KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 200x200px

>>53724384


>Alinor is the capital of the Summerset Isles, and was the capital of the second and third Aldmeri Dominions.

>It was a forbidden city for almost 50 years in the late Second Era, humans only being allowed in the ports at that time. These traders described the city as made from glass or insect wings, which gives the city a beauty that, by any account, would easily rival that of any found on the mainland. Imperial emissaries of the Reman Dynasty described the city as straight and glimmering, a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall.

You can only hope

File: gold coast - Thresvy.jpg (133KB, 1366x768px) Image search: [Google]

133KB, 1366x768px

>>53711119
>Where do you guys want the next video game to be set?
Wherever it is, it's gonna be shit.

A better question would be, where do you guys want the next province mod for Morrowind to be set?

>>53721332
Was he really corrupted by heart?
Or was he killed by tribunal and Nerevar while not using it's power yet and resurrected latter?

I remember that there was a few versions of what happened at Red Mountain, and I thing that in one Dagoth did nothing wrong and still was killed.

>>53711119
>Where do you guys want the next video game to be set?
Nosgoth
Er.. I mean, Hammerfell. I want to be a king and shit. Plus, didn't Redguards have cool and weird stuff going on?

>>53717586
Dagoth Ur

>>53724629
>I remember that there was a few versions of what happened at Red Mountain
All of them true

>>53724764
oh look another dragon break this week.
I tell you, in TESVI we will hear that both factions in Skyrim won civil war but it does not matter as dragon break happened and now we have nuEmpire or something.

>>53724931
Actually what will happen is dreugh come out of the sea riding on flying whales and they bomb all the cities of skyrim and establish a carapace Kingdom

>>53724958
insert Hell March theme

>>53724931
That's so metal

>>53724958
10/10 would read lore about.
Without any irony.
Although can dreugh live in such cold water?

>>53710486
So, Nerevar.
What the fuck is going on with this guy? He was from a nation worshipping Daedra of betrayal and murder, and he decided to bring peace and love, he took care of a little illiterate crack whore and made him his advisor, befriended godless heathens, in ESO you convince the Nerevarine he's a fake because he's not humble and peaceful enough, how the fuck does it tie in with Chimer beliefs?

Are the two books by keyes worth reading

>>53723946
>Imga, Sload, varieties of Khajiit, varieties of Bosmer (and the dimorphism), differences of Colovians and Nibenese, Akaviri influence on Septim Empire and it's fate in the 4th Era
you didn't finish that line but I guess you meant they won't ever show these. And I agree.
>Tsaesci will never make an appearance*
fixed
Agree on the rest and its just sad

File: bait.png (30KB, 500x294px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 500x294px

>>53725232

>>53719426
>especially when those cults are namira, namira or namira
I know you were referring to peryite with the first one but still, lmao.

Anyway Peryite is more like the god of "actually, urine is sterile" than a nurgleish "disease is beautiful" sort. Let disease run its course to purge the weak and strengthen the strong, spread pus in the wound to cleanse it. From what the faithful Afflicted tell you, Peryite did not actually curse them with the plague but keeps them alive despite it, similar to Oblivion where his followers were retards that put themselves in a coma trying to get to his realm.

Between looking like a dragon and being a big fan of orderly conduct, and getting annoyed at his followers doing things that would thrill most other Princes because of the devotion shown, Peryite really seems like a comically Anuic spirit among the Daedra, like he's much better cut out to be Aedric. Like all his followers are like "hey daedra are cool, I'm gonna go be an edgelord and worship the daedra!!" and when deciding which to worship they're like "wow this one's a dragon" and then Peryite is just completely not into the kind of shit edgelords that worship Daedra do. He just wants to make sure his cult stays alive and that all the trains in Oblivion run on time.

As his shrinekeeper in Skyrim puts it, he's "the pus in the wound" and sometimes disease can be cleansing. The same way Mehrunes Dagon is sometimes associated with liberty (destroying the shackles of slavery), Peryite is actually all about letting foul things fester and destroy themselves, but gets characterised as some kind of disgusting plague-bearer because mortals lump all forms of "pestilence" together. Meanwhile Namira's thing is actually foulness and decay.

I admittedly have a heavy pro-Peryite bias because of his personality in Daggerfall. He's my second-favourite prince after Meridia. That game even has an unused line about how Peryite is the nicest prince but has the worst reputation.

>>53720642
Because this series isn't really about villains. The only real villains the entire series has are Jagar Tharn, Dagoth Ur, Mankar Camoran and Miirak, so there's not a whole lot of competition. Two out of five games don't even have a clear villain (in the base game, Skyrim does have Miirak and arguably Harkon of course), and one of those two doesn't even have a clear ANTAGONIST.

Then you have the fact that Dagoth Ur and Mankar Camoran are both insane but clearly not inherently malicious (they think they mean well), and you'd have to either not know much or do a lot of mental gymnastics to consider Almalexia, Jyggylag, Umaril or Alduin actual villains when each of them fights either for justice or to preserve the natural order and keep an entire race or an entire world from ending horribly.

>>53721310
Reminds me of MK's rant about how Vivec wasn't a generic mary sue because the two halves of his body were different colours and he wore armour made of bugs. All that superficial flavour shit (which is commonly attached to sues).

Dagoth Ur, at his core, is just "an ancient evil has awoken." That's literally it, he's even referred to as "a devil" or even "the devil." Going into it deeper and stripping away arbitrary set dressing like "he wears a big cool sumerian mask and lives next to the severed heart of a god," it's
>once an ally of "the good guys"
>brush with actual divinity makes him realise that "the good guys" are dangerous and he tries telling them this
>gets punished, but can no longer truly die, so he merely "falls"
>comes back much later when the control of "the good guys" lapses, and attempts to conquer everything (still believing, erroneously from the effects of years of madness, that he is in the right)
He's literally Lucifer. Not saying that the story of Lucifer (and most Judeo-Christian myth) isn't low-key cool as fuck, but it's about as "generic" as it gets. He's not even the gnostic interpretation (that's Lorkhan).

>>53724563
I like that pic. Makes me feel fuzzy inside. Somehow makes me think of an RTS game.

>>53725232
You have a very broad definition of "convinced" if that's your interpretation of what happened.

File: TicH6nN.jpg (101KB, 1366x768px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 1366x768px

>>53725673
Here's more.
http://imgur.com/a/o4QFM
http://imgur.com/a/vpCL3

>>53725728
I should go on a vacation sometime. Just me, the sea, the setting sun.
Minus the spoopy skelllies, of course.
But then again, skellytons are cool. Wonder why Todd hasn't made a mobile game about a Skeleton Hero yet.

>>53723946
>literally ESO

>>53724285
They existed since Daggerfall. Oblivion just fleshed them out and gave them a language bridging the gap between Daedric (Chimeris), Dwemeris and Aldmeris, and insight into Aldmeris. For an etymology nerd like me Ayleidoon was a huge gift.

>>53724384
>I think we're at the level of grafics tech where they can show off the crystal towers
Can't wait to see the special physically-correct light shafts that were the only major improvement in Skyrim SE in the forests of Valenwood.

Crystal-Like-Law was just a big square stone tower in Arena, so while you're right I could see them copping out if there were ever a game set in Summerset.

>>53724397
>morrowind
>good
LLMLO (literally laughing my LMAO off).

>>53725232
>He was from a nation worshipping Daedra of betrayal and murder
You are mistaken. Daedra seem complicated because they're actually very simple and people try to classify things as "good" and "evil," which are actually very complex qualities. Mehrunes Dagon for instance was designed to destroy- He was a tool in the hands of the slaves of Lyg, to destroy the Towers of Lyg and destroy their shackles, but by the same dint he destroys all things (or rather, is associated with the destruction of all things). Sheogorath is seen as the god of madness (a disease of the soul), but he's the god of all spontaneity, including free will and artistic expression. Vaermina rules the realm of dreams, and people are quick to blame her for nightmares but not so quick to credit her for sweet, inspiring or enlightening dreams, which she also governs, preferring to attribute these to "good" gods like the Aedra.

Mephala is a god of love and passion, Azura is a god of peace and wisdom, Boethiah is a god of progress and hope for the future. All comes down to how you look at things.

>>53718009
That's a good animation pack.
Shame it doesn't mesh well with Lightning Storm.

>>53725242
From what I've read about them, the plot is interesting, and they're canonised in Skyrim. From what I've read OF them, which admittedly isn't much, they read stylistically like edgy fanfiction, but if you're cool with that I say go for it.

>>53725284
The tsaesci menfolk appeared in Oblivion. Though supposedly (I never saw a source on this, just saw a lot of anons parroting it over the years) a dev confirmed those were supposed to be snakemen but they didn't have time to give them animated snake tails instead of legs.

>>53726042
>The tsaesci menfolk appeared in Oblivion
The akaviris human appeared in oblivion. PLus they had armors whereas the lore tells that Tsaescis precisely can't fight with armour.
So we've yet to see anything really akaviri except temples and katanas (and armors).
Plus Bethesda will never make a game about them because they absolutely don't know what to do with them even if they wanted. They'd have to actually work

>>53725242
I liked them.
Realtalk: was Sul the Nerevarine?

>>53726082
>PLus they had armors whereas the lore tells that Tsaescis precisely can't fight with armour.
N'wah you what.

>>53726114
at least not with full armor.
It was in the book telling the history of the fighter's guild. I read it in Oblivion

>>53725242
I liked the first, I'll go around and read the later one someday.

>>53726082
>The akaviris human appeared in oblivion.
Thanks for repeating what I said and you quoted?

The Tsaesci are actually two races, that's written about elsewhere. There are "humans" that appear, well, human, and there's the snakemen that enslaved them (and "ate" them, though it's clarified that this probably means "absorbed their culture").

The menfolk, who comprised the first Blades, definitely wore armour, because that is where the design of the Blades' armour came from. The snakemen COULD fight without armour and even preferred to, they were adept at it because of their agility, but there's absolutely nothing saying that they would suddenly burn alive or be crushed if they put on armour and swung a sword or something, that's fucking ridiculous.

>>53726114
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:History_of_the_Fighters_Guild
>It has often been stated, the Akaviri, particularly the Tsaesci, understood weaponry better than armor. Even if they could not wear it themselves, the knight was able to explain to the other Syffim what the weaknesses were in their opponent's armor, explaining to them how many joints there were in a pauldon and a grieve, and the differences between Aketons and Armkachens, Gorgets and Gliedshrims, Palettes and Pasguards, Tabards and Tassettes.

>>53726137
>As has often been stated, the Akaviri, particularly the Tsaesci, understood weaponry better than armor. Even if they could not wear it themselves, the knight was able to explain to the other Syffim what the weaknesses were in their opponent's armor, explaining to them how many joints there were in a pauldron and a greave, and the differences between Aketons and Armkachens, Gorgets and Gliedshrims, Palettes and Pasguards, Tabards and Tassettes.
This?
This is strange because in PGE it says:
>The high crafts of daikatanas and dragonscale armor came from Akavir, as did the banners and military dress of Septim's shock troops, the Blades.
and in 2920:
>"This will be fascinating to watch," hissed the Potentate, a wide grin across his narrow face. "I don't know if I've even seen a Cyrodiil fight an Akavir like this. Usually it's army against army. At last we can settle which philosophy is better -- to create armor to combat swords as your people do, or to create swords to combat armor as mine do."
Which doesn't necessarily mean they don't have armor at all. The shields though...
>"We don't have shields in our culture," murmured Versidue-Shaie to the Emperor. "It seems strange to my boy, I imagine. In our country, if you don't want to get hit, you move out of the way."

>>53726186
See, I interpret "Even if they could not wear it themselves" to mean they're capable of analyzing armors they can't use in addition to those they can, rather than to mean they're incapable of using any sort of armor.

I mean, thick clothes could be considered armor. Where's the cutoff?

>>53726186
I think they might have worn SOME armor one way or another. Which may explain dragonscale.
Maybe pauldrons or gauntlets.
Also scale armor is supposed to be flexible so its entirely possible they wore it. But not covered their whole bodies with it.

>>53726184
>>53726186
>>53726216
>they could learn even the weaknesses in greaves, which they could not wear because they had no legs
This isn't complicated.

>>53726180
Yeah but I'm still calling the serpent the Tsaesci and the humans the humans. Which is why I misundertood what you said. My bad

File: 1459796050130.jpg (136KB, 1024x1320px) Image search: [Google]

136KB, 1024x1320px

I just realized how similar Nerevarine is to Neo in Matrix 2. They are both regarded as the outcast hero of the prophecy (Neo was an outcast in "matrix world" and there are plenty in "real world" who don't believe in him, just like Nerevarine who was an unwanted or criminal in pre-Vvardenfell life and on Morrowind, people and Temple persecuted him). Then, they both proceed to be a disruptive force on the established system. Ambitious to create a revolution, they simply manage to bring a reformation and thus, they both realize they are not disruptive in a meaningful way, rather, a type of self-fortification of the same antagonistic system. In other words, they are both mere handymen for the system to come back even stronger.

>>53726395
>Matrix 2
Matrix had a sequel?

>>53725728

holy shit was THAT made with the morrowind modding tools

>>53726600
Welcome to Project Tamriel, anon.
Both Province Cyrodiil and Skyrim: Home of the Nords have released playable alpha versions of their mods recently, the Island of Stirk and the Reach respectively.

question anons? who would you worship if you were to go to tamrial, one deadra [if any] one aedra [if any], or would you be like that bitch in skingrad something-god hater

>>53726633

the morrowind mods still being made are utterly insane in terms of how they look.

>>53726678
Else God-Hater actually just hates the Aedra but doesn't like to let on that she wants the hot Daedric cock. She's a member of the Mythic Dawn and will summon bound robes and attack you if you're far enough in the main quest to start provoking those assholes.

M E R I D I A

>>53726695
why meridia she's just...strange?

personaly I would go for sithis and herma mora

File: 1470896411699.jpg (91KB, 750x993px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 750x993px

>>53726678
I would worship the righteous walking gods of Tribunal, the anticipations naturally. This is the only correct answer to your question.

>>53726678
Zenithar.

>>53726720
I take it you ment the living god of the dunmer?
you know the one who made a deadric lords dick into a spear?

>>53726695
dammit forgot to drop my name

>>53726732
Are you a communist?

>>53726678
Arkay.

File: Azura.jpg (11KB, 250x156px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 250x156px

>>53726678
Azura's tits

File: Vivec+s+spear+muatra+is+both+literally+and+metaphorically+his+penis+_fcc795de9b38194a176178d79e949af2.png (325KB, 900x1300px) Image search: [Google]

325KB, 900x1300px

>>53726678
Azura of course

Everyone says "Azura u a bitch" but she is waaaaay more compassionate than the other daedra, who may or may not murder you for a passing whim.

Hircine would be next in line

>>53726749
that's not a god anon, a devine figure but not a god in their own right

File: 1464712096295.jpg (61KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 400x400px

>>53726737
On the contrary. I love capitalism and my wealth. I work hard and I get my shekel dekel doos without any bloodshed or treachery.

>>53726779
he is comrence and hard work right? then how is he possibly communist? if anything he is as capitalist as they come

>>53726787
I'm quite aware.
Tell that to this silly anon >>53726737

>>53726779
>>53726787
You know, in actual historical real world communism (not the one on campuses), the administration and idealogues were absolutely obsessed with work. Everything was for work, workers were for the work, not the other way around. Check the orders of merit in USSR. Check stakhanovites. Even the social theory of marxism concludes that for society and the human experience, nothing is more decisive than economy and work.

So Zenithar is a god that communists would idolize. "Peace and prosper through honest work" is literally the epitome of "Workers' Socialism" experiments.

>Meridia
Literally the Daedra of Greed and a collector of human specimen. Not your smiting waifu.

File: 1465229723211.png (17KB, 550x585px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 550x585px

>>53726833
No mister pinko. No. I work hard and I worked even harder to get here. I absolutely despise communism because I don't want to share my dollary ding dongs with lazy plebs.

So no, Zenithar is not a commie. He's a divine of wealth, work and free commerce.

>>53726718
>unironically worshiping sithis
That's not just dumb, it's dumb on multiple levels!

>she's just...strange?
What do you mean? She's a Magna Ge, the stars, though because she's "fallen" she is the only one accessible to mortals the vast majority of the time. As a Prince she is actually capable of rewarding her followers and interacting with them to a high degree, unlike the Aedra. Apart from Azura, she is alone among the Princes in being consistently good to her followers as long as they are faithful and good themselves (though even Azura has arbitrarily punished her faithful followers to settle a bet with Sheogorath, similar to the god of the Jews, who punished Job to settle a bet with an angel). She is in opposition of the undead, which, while I do not personally feel especially in the context of TES that necromancy is inherently evil, is generally a safe thing to be against- Most necromancERS are evil, and most undead are dangerous. Her gifts are beautiful and powerful with no real strings attached, and when one of her faithful craved vengeance, she took him into her realm and spent centuries building him into an immaculate golden knight (which, sadly for him, was not enough- unsurprising, since his foe was apparently constructed by many of her brothers and sisters among the Magna Ge working together, with direct access to the materials of Aetherius; if his foe had been anything less, he likely would have won). Her sphere or dominion is limitless energy, boundless light, an innately neutral concept with more applications for good than for ill.

Basically she's the closest thing TES has to a "good" god, she's beautiful and angelic, and she's more interesting than most of these chumps, who got where they were by either being sneering assholes or chumps who actually took Lorkhan's bait (either from being tricked or honestly convinced they were doing the right thing). Azura and Kynareth get honourable mentions for sure but none of them compares to Meridia.

File: 1485139620774.png (11KB, 1016x547px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 1016x547px

>>53726870
I bet you masturbate to anime

>>53726678

i would worship talos and hatefuck that god-hater bitch

File: 1464712261251.jpg (115KB, 370x500px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 370x500px

>>53726907
Bet your red ass I do.

>>53726760
her tits are godly, and that is enough

>>53726907

>he thinks /pol/ actually jerks it to cartoons and that we arent speaking in code about selling guns and rigging elections

>>53726875
Congratulations, you are fucking retarded.

>>53726875
on sithis, he was padme the creator of half of reality and the deadra, and by strange she just seems off to me, its not a bad thing its just that there is something that she does that seems to go against what should happen. but its your choise, I did not mean to be insulting.
>>53726833

it is also a foolish system that has failed every time it has been tried

File: baladas.png (337KB, 522x574px) Image search: [Google]

337KB, 522x574px

>Fortune is the corrupt spirit of commerce, profit, and usury. It is worshipped under the name of Zenithar in the Empire.
>In many lands the spirit of Fortune is worshipped under no name at all, save in its mortal incarnation, the Almighty Coin.
>Worshippers of Fortune scorn the Temple Law of Fair Price and Fair Labor, and assert that Might makes Right in measuring price and labor.

>>53727020
someone kill this fool. if might makes right I will show you my full correctness -paladin of zenithar go kill-

Smells like underage newfag in here.

File: 26904-1-1354468708.jpg (1MB, 1698x773px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1698x773px

>>53727026
>tfw zenithar templars covered in bling

>>53727041
where did you get that from? your right but where?

>>53727056
They're supposed to be Knights of Iron, actually.

File: 26904-2-1353524916.jpg (892KB, 2560x1440px) Image search: [Google]

892KB, 2560x1440px

>>53727081
I know. Wish Bethesda would reintroduce knightly orders in the next game.

>>53727107

the best location for that would be hammerfell

in skyrim they established the alik'r as a sort of knightly group

and of course they could always pull an order of sword singers out of their ass

File: mananaut.jpg (1MB, 1235x1534px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1235x1534px

From Daggerfall:
>...is a servitor of the Daedra Lady of Greed, Meridia. Meridia is a Daedra Regent and a collector of human specimens. Meridia is a kind of acting Daedra Prince, and ruthless in her acquisitiveness.

From Oblivion guide:
>Can you put it all together? The big picture is that, long ago, Ayleid settlers stumbled onto this grotto. They made it their own--in the end, too much their own. In doing so, they uncovered a forgotten shrine to the Daedra lord Meridia. Meridia's vengeance for this violation was swift: She crushed Abargarlas with her stone roots and, incensed that some survivors escaped, buried the grotto almost entirely.

Friendly reminder to not to fall for meridiots' propaganda - she's no more benevolent than any other Daedra Prince.

File: 1.jpg (361KB, 1920x853px) Image search: [Google]

361KB, 1920x853px

>>53727129
Yes that would be perfect. Maybe they'll even return Ebonarm worship in one form or the other now that Talos worship is dwindling. But that's probably just my pipe dream since MK hates him.

>>53726984
I am sorry I don't ascribe to your baseless line of "rhetoric" about how Meridia is an evil satan, Pelinal. Not actually sorry. Nerd!

>>53726985
Sithis is only the "soul" of Padomay. Kind of its whole point is that it doesn't actually "exist," Sithis IS NOT (is negation). Not even a god, just the idea of something contrary to anything. Most worshipers of Sithis also worship the "Sithis" of the Dark Brotherhood, which is definitely not the real Sithis and is probably Mephala playing pretend. Actually worshiping the "deity" of complete negation/annihilation would be a pretty poor choice, if Sithis actually did anything itself or even responded to worship.

Sithis and Anuiel are also two sides of the same coin, Anuiel is just the "positive" aspect of an empty space. Sithis is the empty space left when something is removed, Anuiel is the empty space that precedes something being added. They're the same thing, when you dial back and look at the big picture.

>its not a bad thing its just that there is something that she does that seems to go against what should happen.
What do you mean? The only conceivable examples I can imagine are Umaril (who was actually initially the "good guy" insofar as morals are involved in that whole mess, and is only not the "good guy" later on because of the nature of mortals disappearing (dying) and being replaced by different mortals with different ideologies) and the possibility of necromancy, which she opposes universally, being used for the sake of righteousness.

>>53727152
Meridiafags are just Skyrimbabies anyway.

>>53727187
Sick projection, but I've been playing since Daggerfall.

>>53727187
That's fair.

>>53727173
yes that is the sithis I would worship, the dread father. but onto your other point, I think it is the blatent distrust that should be used with these creatures. and paranoia but an example is she is dead set against necromancy right? and undead? now I am going to ignore the logic of gameplay here and say that if you are a vamp you should not be able to do her quest. this is a conflict of interests. that's gameplay. another anon mentioned here "righteous wrath" incident with a shrine and my flimsiest excuse yet, I just don't have a good feeling around people with here attitude. zeal and enthusiasm for a cause of her own making.
you can counter my arguments, you can explain until the cows come home, but you cant get rid of a gut feeling that that thing isn't to be trusted

>>53727171

why not just make ebonarm a 'living god' the first redguard to rediscover swordsinging in the 4th era who establishes an order of sword singers and uses their power to help drive the thalmor out of hammerfell in the great war

this effectively fulfills the hoonding prophecy and as such he starts being worshipped as a god and a hero

however the crown/forebear elites try to snuff out this worship as they want to make hammerfell into a two party democracy, and fear the emergence of a chosen one is an attempt by the empire to force them back into its ownership

as such they form the alikr to enforce a new state religion bastardized from the old yokudan religion and banished the sword singers to the most remote parts of the western mountains

the hoonding/ebonarm takes advantage of this, he decides he will make way for the redguard people by not only saving them from the unholy false rulers, but also by leading them across tamriel to conquer it all for them

>>53727347
>I would trust the (fake) embodiment of pure evil but would not trust the most straightforward deity in the series next to Kynareth
???

Anyway, even in the largely retconned capacity she filled in Daggerfall (which was already contradicted in Morrowind, where instead of a god of greed she is identified as the "lady of infinite energies"), there is nothing at all inherently wrong with "acquisitiveness" in this case (in fact, it later became something innocuous that many of the Princes are shown to do almost as a sort of game, capturing each other's artifacts to give to their champions), and her role as a "collector of human specimens" is again something ALL of the gods have since been shown to do (in fact it would only be unusual in her case because she is not actually an Aedroth or Daedroth herself), and in her case is a lot easier to construe as positive than not, given her realm as described is one of the more heavenly ones (similar to those permitted to Moonshadow or the Shivering Isles of the Asylum, other wonderful places of great beauty).

And the shrine thing was literally punishing a group that defiled her shrine, what do you expect? Even the Aedra don't take kindly to that- At least insofar as the Aedra do or say anything, and their temples aren't simply ruled by the mortal priests.

>>53727537
Sorry, I misremembered, apparently dialogue in Oblivion identified her as "the lady of infinite energies." Morrowind merely associated her with the "energy of living beings," simply a god of life. IIRC most of MK's early shit about the Magna Ge came between Morrowind and Oblivion (only a few stray references existed before that), so that makes sense.

>>53726186
>We don't have shields in our culture," murmured Versidue-Shaie to the Emperor. "It seems strange to my boy, I imagine. In our country, if you don't want to get hit, you move out of the way.
That's...huh.
Sneks don't like shields
But didn't those undead soldiers have shields?

>>53728729
Well, 2190 is a dramatic retelling of events, rather than an historical document. That is funny though, the snakemen should definitely know about anything their human-tsaesci troops used.

>>53711830
After we got shouts in skyrim I'd be really interested to see what they do with the sword singers. Id also be happier if the villains in these next installment where a bit more mortal. People being dicks to each other is always more dramatic then Demon gods from beyond time and space destroying you.

>>53723946
Why do you bring up all these things that bring me so much pain?

>>53728729
I can think of three reasons. They didn't want to spend time making "proper" akaviri undead for a relatively tiny part of the game, so they just put Blades items on skeletons and called it a day. Or whoever designed that segment didn't know or bother to read up on akavir and no one else bothered to correct them, like the Brand-Shei quest where the writer didn't know the Telvanni family was history long before the Argonian invasion.

Or their society is knockoff Japan and by "our culture" he meant snek samurai warrior culture rather than Tsaesci or Akavir as a whole. Bipedal peasants get shields, while snek overlords are too good for that. This one makes the most sense to me, since its hard to imagine massive army formations trying to pull fancy unarmored dodge moves.
>akaviri invasions fail because their formations backflip onto their own pikes

>>53727107
One of my many ideas, if I ever get the chance to run a UESRPG game, would be to have the players all be some sort of religious or philosophical devotee.
It's something that would probably require a bit of a lighter tone, but I just like the idea of it.

Perhaps have it be some sort of Imperial initiative, to foster co-operation between the many faiths and peoples of the Empire. Offer a significant pay-out, but in return you have to report your adventures in to an Imperial author, who's going to embellish it and make propaganda out of it.
Perhaps you're a volunteer, or perhaps you were "volunteered" by your superiors. Maybe you're not even a believer at all, and you're just here for the cash.

The latter is actually sort of a fun character concept. You play as some Khajiiti swindler pretending to be a Riddle'Thar monk, and hoping that your religion is so obscure outside Elsweyr that no one's going to notice.

So, are the Akaviri literal snakes or no?

>>53711119
highrock

>>53729399
we don't know, most probably this is how it breaks down
>Tsaesci (which is actually a place, the Snake Kingdom) is home to two sapient races
>one closely resembles men or elves, and were conquered and enslaved/assimilated by the other
>the other is SOMEHOW snakelike
>they most likely have some snakelike features but it's almost certain that most texts exaggerate this somehow
possible permutations for the naga race are
>look like humans but with yellow/golden scales head to toe
>look like humans but their lower body is a snake's tail, covered in golden scales
>look like snakes but with arms
>look like giant snakes, period (don't ask me how they would use weapons)
>look like some other permutation of snake and man, eg the bodies of men but snakeheads or a snake's tail and head but a man's torso and arms
Which of these the snakemen are we simply do not know, every account says or implies something different. Unless they're just straight up snakes, at least some accounts embellish.

File: DaggerfallLamia.gif (21KB, 129x62px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 129x62px

>>53729685
I like tot think they're either just snakes with arms or some variation of Lamias.

File: Lamia_(Online).png (229KB, 700x450px) Image search: [Google]

229KB, 700x450px

>>53729761
Maybe pic related is more accurate even though they look straight out of X-com.

>>53729761
My guess is that the "scaley humanoid" version is just confusing the humanoid men of Tsaesci with the snakes and that the more snakelike ones are exaggerating how monstrous they were, with human upper bodies and snake tails being the case. The potentate's son is described as an eel, they wield weapons and like you say lamia are a thing that already looks like that.

>>53729399
I'm expecting something similar to Skyrim's vampirsm, just with snakes instead of bats. You've got your plain old asian underclass, because attrition would doom them if they were ALL vampires, then vampires with snake like features, then a super vampire ruling class with a snakeman transformation.

>Carlovac Townway:
>There are very old warriors, survivors of Uriel V's ill-fated invasion, and they told me what they saw. I stand by my descriptions that the Akavir Potentates were serpentine, not only in temperament, but in physical appearance. Even if I did not have witnesses, there are too many descriptions of them as snakes to assume that all writers used the same metaphor.

Also, slightly more curious:
>The one exception to this tradition comes from the Tsaesci, whose subdermal culture enjoys no birth sign, an issue that will be touched upon never.

>>53729952
That's a kind of depressingly boring but brilliantly perfect explanation, especially since they've been described as vampires in a few places. Fits just a bit too well.

>many Tang Mo are considered insane (Sheogorath)
>live on islands (Shivering Isles)
>Kamal live in a frozen shithole (Fringe after it was covered in crystals)
>periodically thaw out, attack the Tang Mo, and always get beaten back (Greymarch)

Am I onto something, or is it just that the lore is so sparse you could see anything in it if you wanted?

>>53727617
>Sorry, I dismembered

File: 694px-SI-concept-FAtro05.jpg (128KB, 694x600px) Image search: [Google]

128KB, 694x600px

>>53730832
I think you're reading too much into everything but the insanity.

>>53730834
IT WAS AN HONEST MISTAKE

Can people recommend some good begginers articles in the Imperial Library?

>>53731196
PGE is a must

Read a bunch of game books too before diving into "obscure MK blogposts"

>>53731232
>a large collection of glorified obscure MK and Kuhlmann blogposts is a must
>read a bunch of game books too before diving into "obscure MK blogposts"
I mean these things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, just weird phrasing.

>>53731439
I mean, aside from books like the 36 sermons or some of the stranger Psijic ones, most game books are incredibly trite but touch on things not seen in the main games.

Books like A Dance in Fire add lots of new things but aren't super hard to understand, and other game books are a first step to getting to all the kind of random semi-obscure stuff like towers, kalpas, ect

>>53731439
The Pocket Guides aren't nearly that weird

Only lore released by Bethesda is canon, everything else isn't

>>53731808
Kirkbride's craziest out of context shit isn't really any weirder than the pocket guide, it's just more poorly/incomprehensibly written. And it's exactly on-par with his in-game 36 sermons and mythic dawn commentaries in all regards.

Why are the Mythic Dawn Commentaries so underrated? I know they are rife with poor sentence structure, fragments in fictional languages that aren't thoroughly translated elsewhere and we need to figure out from context and etymology, difficult-to-dissect symbolism and made up mysticbabble words, plus a healthy dose of deliberately contradictory statements like the bit about the Daedric realms, but that doesn't stop everyone and their grandmother from reading the 36 Sermons, and the Commentaries arguably add a lot more to the setting as a whole.

File: a grummite that has absconded with anon's post tied to his belt.jpg (78KB, 506x599px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 506x599px

>>53731869

>>53731909
>Kirkbride's craziest out of context shit
Are you seriously saying Kinmune and Pocket Guide are the same weirdness? Kinmune is deliberately incomprehensible not only due to the language but also thanks to the content; whereas Pocket Guides are marvelous and supernatural. They are both fascinating in their own respects though.

However, Loveletter is, like you said, on the same level as the weirdest Pocket Guide stuff, we can agree on that.

>>53732024
>Are you seriously saying Kinmune and Pocket Guide are the same weirdness?
Yes. The substance of KINMUNE is really simple, even the time travel part is travel from a point so far in the future to a point so far in the past that it doesn't concern any of the usual convoluted bullshit time travel plots do. An elven space mining robot from the future gets sent back to the past when it gets caught in the crossfire of a terrible war, the advanced futuristic technology is such that even a utility machine like her has what is considered unfathomably vast knowledge of events and tremendous martial prowess by the ancient nords, she accidentally kills one of Ysgramor's other commanders, she is imprisoned in the bowels of Saarthal using an artefact of unimaginable power that serves as her cage (ie the Eye of Magnus). There isn't much to it once you look past the mysticbabble and technobabble, only the language is bullshit.

File: 1443646395230.jpg (717KB, 2572x1569px) Image search: [Google]

717KB, 2572x1569px

>>53725409
To be frank, Peryite is my personal favorite among the Daedric Princes as well. I'm a little confused by his 'natural order' sphere (and it's said to be distinct from the perfect order of Jyg), and I don't think ESO's explanation of him keeping 'daedrons' in line is satisfying.

The lore can be contradictory though - sometimes he seems like one of the nicer daedric princes, sometimes he's depicted as being a bit more cruel - it's implied that he was involved in at least one world-spanning plague, the Thrassian plague, and it's somewhat implied that the Afflicted would perhaps be used to spread another.

>>53732143
ESO is hit or miss for me, mostly miss, but I kind of like its treatment of Peryite. Even vanilla there's this implication that he did something nameless in a forgotten time that he is now facing the consequences for, and has to try harder than all the other Daedra just to maintain a baseline of being considered the weakest. Even the PGE1E describes him as "Peryite, whose foundation is falling rock," as in that is his identifying feature- The ground is always falling away beneath him.

>>53732215
>vanilla
*mainline
modding does weird things to how your mind works

>>53726005
That thing about Dagon reminds me:

>Dagon then rose a "red legion" in rebellion and destroyed the Towers of CHIM-EL GHARJYG, casting down its cities and destroying the continent.

That term is obviously very close to Chim-el Adabal, the name for the red diamond on the amulet of kings. What do you think it means?

>>53726678
Zenithar. His thing is literally 'work hard and get rewarded for it.' As long as it's honest (i.e. not illegal), you could do anything from shopkeeping to adventuring. He is a pretty chill god that supports civilized concepts, but can be a warrior if need be.

>>53727129
Do you think they'll bring back Ebonarm? I found it weird how he hasn't been mentioned since Daggerfall - even ESO hasn't mentioned him.

File: Zenithar.png (209KB, 551x720px) Image search: [Google]

209KB, 551x720px

>>53732308
>work hard, trade freely and you shall be rewarded
>violate the NAP and I shall cut your fucking head off

>>53732450
>His law is enforced by warrior-priest caste of NAPladins

>>53726678
Azura of course, and kys if you worship the Aedra

>>53732143
>>53732215
Oh and as for natural order as opposed to "perfect" order, Jyggylag's version of Order is everything happening exactly as it is predestined to by simple, physical inevitability (determinism), Peryite's is making everything work as intended. One key difference, for example, is that if events would logically cause things to fall apart, having that come to pass is Jyggylag's version of order, but Peryite would try to hold things together because his order is more granular. Honestly you can think of Jyggylag more as being the god of predestination, "order" only makes sense when you consider his relationship with Sheogorath, who is usually seen as a god of chaos rather than a god of free will (which is what he actually is).

>>53732237
CHIM-EL means "of high splendor," "of starlight" or "of royalty." GHARTOK means "hand," and JYG probably means order. GHARJYG might mean the "hands of order," or "ordered appendage" (as opposed to a hand, which is appendage of whatever "TOK" is).

To fully understand this, realise that the Commentaries also contain the first reference, though not by name, to the Digitals, the physical manifestations of the Magna-Ge seen in C0DA. These are Aetherial hands, like holograms, that emerge from lights and record the events of the world during a Dragon Break to help mitigate causal paradoxes. Mankar warns the CoC (I ascribe to the theory that the Commentaries were actually written to the CoC specifically, and were deliberately incomprehensible enough that to his followers they would only be a cipher) that upon realising his ability and holding a powerful mantle, or breaking one, the "hands of mnemoli" (the Star Children who descend to Nirn during a Dragonbreak) would grasp at him, and could be sent away by swearing and calling them names in Ehlnofex. Thus "ordered hands of starlight" obviously refers to these same beings, the hand-like manifestations of the Star Children.

>>53732546
>>53732237
Keep in mind, of course, that the Magna Ge are beings of perfect stasis (and thus, to a large degree, order, of the same kind Jyggylag represents even). That's why they serve as sort of book keepers and chronologists in a Dragon Break.

Incidentally Adabal is a compound of Ada, meaning spirits, especially in the context of gods (though only the et'Ada, original Ada, comprise the conventional (pun intended, sorry for the increasingly nested parentheses) gods; Pelinal for example is called an Ada but is not an et'Ada because he was not around at the Dawn), and Bal, meaning stone, which is used elsewhere to refer to soulgems (Molag Bal means "Fire Stone" and refers to his aid in the creation of soul gems; "Ada" as "spirit" would thus be one way of intensifying "molag" as "soul"), and the red stone in the amulet of kings was an Ayleid artefact to begin with, most likely an incredibly powerful soulgem made of meteoric glass, soaked red with blood from its use in their sacrificial rituals. The CHIM-EL ADABAL thus is the spirit-stone of kings or the spirit-stone of starlight, likely the latter to begin with and later the former as its legend became that of the Amulet of Kings.

File: 26904-1-1352937661.jpg (409KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

409KB, 1920x1080px

>>53732487
Truly the most western order.

>>53732347
Considering all references to him were deliberately erased, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no. Why they retconned him I really can't say, I guess they wanted Talos to have the "emperor who became a god" gig all to himself.

>>53731869
You the only thing you mother pushed into the world. Doesn't stop her from dreaming that she has a better child.

Tell me about Elsweyr, how does one into Khajiit lore?

File: tumblr_nu30g7j2om1uasoyfo1_500.jpg (40KB, 500x623px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 500x623px

>>53732764

>>53732764
Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi.

>>53729685
The tsaesi are parasitic brain-worms that infested the natives of akavir

>>53732605
Wait, he was an emperor? Why would you think-

>Reyman Ebonarm
>Reman Cyrodiil
>Reman's last name was an adopted one

I guess that does make a lot of sense. But yeah, it is weird that they're not even mentioning him, especially since his background is so vague - Baan Dar is still getting mentions, and he's not dissimilar in the 'human become god' scenario. Maybe it's part of a rewriting of Hammerfell lore, since now they have their own pantheon and such and don't need Ebonarm mosques.

Could Hammerfell build an empire like Cyrodiil/Septim?

>>53733356
Oh, and it's also weird because this is the only thing in the lore that I can think of that has never been referenced again. Usually Bethesda loves giving little nods to older lore and keeping things updated, even if only giving them mentions.

>>53733356
>>53733439
Kirkbride has explicitly stated he's Reman before. Note that "Reman" is the latin pronunciation, ie ray-mon. But yeah, even fucking Azra Nightcaller from Shadowkey got a mention in Skyrim's DLC, not that it isn't cool that they canonised shadow magic since it's pretty much the dopest shit but yeah.

File: TESL_DB_Shadowmere_CARD.png (243KB, 334x507px) Image search: [Google]

243KB, 334x507px

>>53710486
Anyone else been playing Legends?

>>53733393
Too much infighting, xenophobia, elitism and racism for them to ever accomplish that. They wouldn't even allow magic which would backfire with the elves.

Imperials were diplomatic in their approach. Taking everyone into their legions without discrimination and benefiting from their talents. Playing loose and negotiating with more stern folks. Yokudans would only be oppressive rulers, bound to be usurped by the rebellions.

>>53733555
yes. got triggered harder than from playing early eso

Ebonarm seem to have been intentionally ignored, so I sadly wouldn't be surprised if him and Sai never got mentioned again.

>>53733393
Maybe, but they've usually had a lot of their attention tied up with internal squabbles.
Aside from the initial Warrior Wave, they haven't really got a history of expansionism comparable to peoples like the Nords.

>>53733555
A bit. It's a okay card game but it doesn't really have anything to do with TES.

The main draw for me at the moment is that I can play it rather mindlessly, which means it's perfect for playing while listening to podcasts. Makes it easy to pay attention to the latter.

>>53733609
Did you get killed by Atromancer?

>>53733598
>>53733687
Thank you for the replies.

What would be good alternative candidates?

>>53733947
ayleids, tsaesci, altmer
what could go wrong

>>53733947
Bretons are a fair bit less xenophobic and can be more diplomatic, but High Rock is too fragmented to ever try and build an empire, and they seem to be a bit self-centered. Same with Eleswyer, and the Khajiit don't have much interest in empire-building anyway.

Morrowind could manage it - Resdayn has been a powerful empire before - but they're more concerned with defending the homeland than trying to tell all the outlanders and n'wah what to do. Valenwood and the Bosmer are similarly home-minded, and Black Marsh seems most concerned with Black Marsh.

The Altmer are clearly doing it with the Aldmeri Dominion, and the Nords have formed conquering empires before that have spread into High Rock and attacked the Dunmer and I believe even the Imperials (under the Alessian Empire at the time, I think).

>>53733947
For a "Fourth Empire"?

In a lot of ways, no one, since the Cyrodiilic Empire(s) (if we generalise) has been a pretty remarkable and unique institution. Even if they've often united Tamriel through conquest, they're not really a conquering Empire in the sense that the First Empire of the Nords or the Dominion is.
Even the Tsaeci didn't really create their own Empire as much as they just hijacked the Second Empire.

I mean, we've had a reigning Dunmeri Empress Regent, something that would likely never happen in a Nord or Altmer established Empire. The Third Empire in particular excels in it's attempt to be a Tamriellic institution more than a institution built by and for one race alone, which is what most other Empires would be.

If I've got to say something, I'd say the two options are Altmer or Nords, but both of them are exceedingly unlikely.

>>53734205
The first Nordic empire controlled all of Resdayn at one point.

File: 1484297311832.jpg (49KB, 493x828px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 493x828px

>walk always in the light or we will drag you to it!
Tell me more about the Vigil of Stendarr, /tgesg/. They get my paladin boner raging.

>>53735351
>Vigil of Stendarr
Morons, there is nothing wrong with worshipping Daedra

>>53735351
>liking stendarr justice warriors

>>53735387
Hypocrites too. It is clear that worshipers of the Aedra are meant to embody the virtues of their gods, but the Vigil's motto is, "Stendarr's mercy upon you, for the Vigil has none to spare." Literally say upfront that despite worshiping the god of mercy they have NO mercy, and give no quarter, however reasonable, to ANYTHING they consider profane. They're a fundamentally neutral-at-best force, frequently evil, masquerading as good. So yeah typical paladins.

>>53727152
Fuck that, Meridia is still based. She stands against the undead and she did help the Ayleids against the Humans who would inevitably genocide them. The actions you listed aren't even that bad, just petty actions that many Gods tend to do. Even the Aedra such as Kynereth or Shor have aided the humans in slaughtering of Elves on more than one occasion for seemingly no seemingly no reason.

>>53735351
They're generic good guys who keep on getting killed by baddies like Daedra cultists

Azura is the only Daedra worthy worshipping desu

>>53735549
I love how they try to mug you for daedric artifacts.

>>53735754
eww

>>53735706
>Even the Aedra such as Kynereth or Shor have aided the humans in slaughtering of Elves on more than one occasion for seemingly no seemingly no reason.
Well, Shor is Lorkhan who genuinely hates elves because he's one of those guys that gets really upset when someone likes something he doesn't like (though he is not beyond reason, at least when he is in mortal form- Wulfharth was willing to side with the dunmer who weren't quite as bad as dagoth ur to oppose dagoth ur, before Tiber betrayed him to become Talos). Kynareth is a Jill to Akatosh, who at the time was also Auri-el and was severely fucking upset and fully prepared to cry bitch tears at the Ayleids for realising Meridia was a cuter lightsource than he was.

The irony is that this was likely the beginning of the Aedra and their followers' grand crusade of lies, including their claim to be the children of Anu while the Daedra were the children of Padomay (the Aedra are a roughly even blend of both, and the Daedra and Magna Ge have proven many times over that while they are clearly aligned more one way or another, each has at least a bit of both as well). Yet the instrument of their genocide was Pelin-el, a Shezarrine and thus Padomaic device, which was created by the Magna Ge for unknown reasons (as opposed to another Padomaic instrument they created, Mehrunes Dagon, whose original purpose we know), and he was, through time travel bullshit, sent to Alessia in the form of an Ayleidoon artefact (the Chim-el Adabal). Kind of the cherry on the shit sundae is that Meridia was technically both a Magna Ge and a Daedroth (or at least a Prince of Oblivion). The blatant perfidy of the Aedra during that period was astounding.

>>53735351
Paladins always seemed unfitting for TES in a way that I can't explain. Probably because most every religious warrior seems to be some sort of cleric, and the most paladin-like organization is more like some religious-themed knights than true champions of gods.

>>53736691
D&D style paladins/clerics don't generally fit in TES because the magic and religious systems are completely different. The only difference between a high priest and arch mage is that one is probably better at restoration. A "paladin" character is just a battlemage or spellsword. There's also the lack of a big notVatican churning out divine warriors that make people think "paladin". Religion has been involved in lots of wars, sure, but the temple as an organization usually takes a back seat to the empire.

Ordinators are probably the closest thing to an archetypal paladin.

I wish they didn't kill the dwemer, they are the most interesting race of TES

>>53737786
>A "paladin" character is just a battlemage or spellsword.
The classes you're looking for are "crusader" and "witchhunter."

>>53737960
You're aware the dwemer were dead from the start, right? They haven't been a living presence in any of the games.

>>53738216
Yes

>>53733300
>Akivir is populated by animal people because they are secretly Animorphs.

Do we really want to go down this rabbit hole?

>>53716734
Yeah, Skyrims northrern coast was really underutilized. There was pretty much only Solitude and Windhelm. At least Winterhold had a lore reason for being shitty, even if that didn't go anywhere, but Dawnstar was inexcusably bad.

>>53738565
>tosh-raka is like the kid that got stuck as a hawk but regained his ability to also turn into other animals
wqhoa

File: vivec likes where this is going.jpg (346KB, 921x675px) Image search: [Google]

346KB, 921x675px

>>53726678
I see no compelling reason to worship any of the Aedra or Daedra.

>>53727347
>yes that is the sithis I would worship, the dread father.
>unironically worshipping Mephala's sockpuppet version of Lorkhan
>The Era of Our Lord Talos 2017

File: 1908273e562115738.jpg (131KB, 640x436px) Image search: [Google]

131KB, 640x436px

>>53726678
>Worshipping

File: abort mission.jpg (33KB, 754x183px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 754x183px

>>53733555
Yes.
Got fucked by vampires so hard that I took a breather.
>>53735351
They don't block as often as they should. Nor do they use their head when fighting against vampires.

>>53737786
I think there might also be a bit of a reason for it in Tamriel's history - the Alessian Order/Empire and its zealotry probably turned off a lot of races from the idea of a organized and centralized religion.

You did get military arms of churches in Daggerfall, but aside from that and Oblivion's Knights of the Nine (to some degree), that's about as close as you'd get to paladin-production. And they were kind of more like Templar style orders than something from D&D.

>>53737960
I think that they are interesting, but not the most interesting race. And if they were still alive they would be far less interesting.

>>53724520
When has Bethesda gave a fuck about previous lore?

Am I the only person who really hates nords?

Was Vivec right to fuck up Azura?

File: MLM.png (34KB, 715x760px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 715x760px

>>53741252

File: MGE Screenshot 001.png (2MB, 1440x900px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1440x900px

Do you think that the Elder Scrolls method of world building, that is, assembling a bunch of random snippets from different writers, sort of consolidating it and then periodically retconning and bandaging mistakes as it grows is effective? Do you think it would be replicateable?

File: Imperial Proconsul.jpg (48KB, 658x794px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 658x794px

>>53741335
Effective as in what? Profits wise? Skyrim grossed $1,390,000,000 so I'd certainly say that's effective.

Lore wise and how they treat their fan base? Well that depends on who you ask. You have people commissioning artists for drawings of their ESO snowflakes, roleplaying forums, guilds, etc. just people really having a blowout time no matter how badly Beth/Zeni fucks with the lore.

Then you have people STILL bitching about daggerfall era lore being tossed and wanking over their own subjective interpretation of what a whole universe should consist of. So ya know, mixed bag.

>>53741254
Clearly

>>53741414
Artist?

>>53741414
That pic isn't an ESO snowflake m8, that's 4rth era Imperial armor, that's a Skyrim snowflake.

>>53729211
>Telvanni family was history long before the Argonian invasion.
Huh. Where can I read about this? Always liked that best waifu Brelyna had Telvanni ancestry

File: LG-card-Auridon_Paladin.png (329KB, 349x559px) Image search: [Google]

329KB, 349x559px

>>53736691
Few factions can fit the bill of stereotypical paladins in TES. Vigilants, Dawnguards, Priests of Arkay, Knights of the Nine, Justiciars etc.

>>53737786
True but restoration is often overlooked in the mage's guild while practiced heavily in churches by the healers. Divine blessings and anti-undead resto spells being included as well.

>>53741506
http://enolezdrata.deviantart.com/art/Commission-Imperial-general-684463715

>>53741335
>13 fps
why would you do this

>>53742484
>>53741335
D:

>>53742484
Not that anon but my frames drop when I take a screenshot in Morrowind.

File: Stendarr's Beacon.jpg (758KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

758KB, 1920x1080px

>>53735549
>>53735788
Not only that but they will attack you on sight if you're wearing daedric armor. But on higher levels they themselves start using daedric gauntlets and greaves too. Completely retarded.

Thankfully an unofficial patch fixes this.

>>53711377
Is that official art?

>>53739784
The KotN (wearing the sign of the emperor, an order of a handful of extremely skilled knights) are actually much more like the Paladins than they are the Templars, though they clearly draw inspiration from both (especially in how they fell- a common component of Templar myth, though also a common trope of RPG paladins).

>I think that they are interesting, but not the most interesting race. And if they were still alive they would be far less interesting.
Also fucking this

>>53741252
Not really.

>>53741254
Not really, but that was literally fanfic anyway. It was from a fan-performed freeform forum RP, like if we went over to /qst/ and did a TES themed quest where we all played as different figures from the Alessian Order that wouldn't be new lore, it would be a (probably cringey as fuck) forum RP.

>>53741335
Yes and yes. It's incredibly inefficient, but I mean, 4chan and SA have done it numerous times on a smaller scale to varying (but usually adequate) degrees of success.

>>53742484
That's just Morrowind. Making it look like not-vomit causes it to run at silky smooth 1x fps on a CERN supercomputer.

>>53743972
Not really.

>>53743972
I think Morrowind looks alright as it is, and because it's so old it means you can run it real smoothly as part of the bargain. You're never going to get sexy Skyrim graphics out of it, so why even bother?

>>53742737
>But on higher levels they themselves start using daedric gauntlets and greaves too

That never happens. They always have steel boots and gauntlets.

>>53744960
Anon, it looks like garbage, but you can make it look really pretty (better than Skyrim in some aspects) and have it run at 60fps

>>53745060
It's said on the UESP, and I consider them a trustworthy source, even if I've never gotten to a high enough level to confirm what anon is saying myself.

>>53745102
I don't know what to tell you man - I think it looks old, but not garbage.

File: Tel_Mora.png (2MB, 1600x1200px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1600x1200px

>>53745102
Not him, but after playing Morrowind with enough graphics mods, I can say that vanilla has it's own charm. I'm currently running vanilla with a few minor gameplay mods and the code patch.

File: yEVQY0J.png (213KB, 512x256px) Image search: [Google]

213KB, 512x256px

>>53744960
I agree 100%

>>53743972
>like if we went over to /qst/ and did a TES themed quest where we all played as different figures from the Alessian Order, and Kirkbride, Kurt, Ted Peterson, Ken Rolston and GT Noonan all showed up, that WOULD be new lore
ftfy

How does Mantling work? In the case of Tiber Septim, there is a clear chronology of events, though there is some confusion as to which actions can be attributed to which individual from among Wulfharth, Hjalti, and Arctus (with Wulfharth and Hjalti variously called Ysmir or Talos in different sources).
In historical accounts, these three figures are blurred together; but when they were alive, their contemporaries must have witnessed them, and knew which deeds were whose, for they fought alongside them or saw them in action.

Also, how can Arctus be part of Talos if most accounts clearly refer to Arctus/the Underking as a separate person from Wulfharth/Hjalti/Talos, and in one he's said to have continued to help Tiber Septim ascend to the throne as an adviser/mage, not to mention that he out-“lives” Tiber Septim by centuries.

>>53725242
they gave us neat argonian lore, much more than almost any game up to this point(and they are cool swamp lizards and not MUH EDGY MAYAN FEATHER LEEZARDS like in ESO) You get to learn about 4 or so daedric realms we have yet to really visit and it reads like a adventure that would probably have been a stand alone game, has some rather weird moments(kinda goes into Redwall territory when describing 'food' later, some of the weird plot points too) but they are quite good. Only real complaints I have is the cliffhanger ending we will probably never see anything done with and the fact the two books were meant to be one big book so they cut it in half in a awkward place.

>>53729685
They don't have a human body, that's for sure.
Not up for interpretation.

>>53729399
Snakes with arms, somehow.
Not able to wear full, conventional armor

>>53729211
>They didn't want to spend time making "proper" akaviri undead for a relatively tiny part of the game, so they just put Blades items on skeletons and called it a day. Or whoever designed that segment didn't know or bother to read up on akavir and no one else bothered to correct them
sounds the most likely

>>53745102
>better than Skyrim in some aspects
Maybe in like 2014, modded skyrim is probably the single best-looking game at this point in pretty much every regard. I mean, at least until anything moves and you see the awful animations that mods still haven't really improved that much. (Modded) Morrowind's godrays and water are really nice though, better than most modern games. Hell, the same applies to vanilla Morrowind's water.

Morrowind is poorly optimised, being from fucking 2002, and if you actually get it looking that good it WON'T run well, no matter how powerful your PC is.

>>53741414
>STILL bitching about daggerfall era lore being tossed
Actually I just bitch about people who claim daggerfall's lore has been tossed even though there is no genuine reason to actually believe this.
>>53741535
The armor is clearly based in the Morrowind style.
>>53743972
>It was from a fan-performed freeform forum RP
>like if we went over to /qst/ and did a TES themed quest
Given the fact that five different developers took part in this RP, I would have to disagree. The way the Trial of Vivec worked, basically, was that 'fan-characters' questioned 'developer-characters' (in most cases Kirkbride). Literally a fancy Q&A.

>>53746468
Exactly, I was talking about water...

I really like ESO's, but it's just surface with no volume

>>53745443
Mantling is inheriting the mantle (a word literally meaning cloak, and colloquially used to refer to a role or title, in reference to the story of Elijah and Elisha in Kangz 2) of a mythical entity, by whatever means. This is restricted to various paths, and you have to be similar enough to fill their role ("walk like them until they must walk like you"), but beyond that there's a lot of ways to go about it. Talos "mantled by way of the fourth [walking way], the steps of the dead," and the "sage who is not an anvil. . . .By which I mean dead," inheriting the mantle of a long-dead deity by reenacting the birth of that entity as an individual.

The Champion of Cyrodiil, on the other hand, mantles Sheogorath after being groomed for the position by the latter. Interestingly, the moment the CoC is shown to become Sheogorath comes BEFORE defeating the old Sheo (as Jyggylag), though it does come AFTER that Sheo became Jyggylag, which, though he would inevitably return to his former self if not for his previous machinations and those of the CoC, could suggest he was "dead" by that point in the same sense that Trinimac (who became Malacath), Lorkhan (who became a shell) and Akatosh (who was bound in Lorkhan's Heart) were when Hjalti, Zurin and Ysmir mantled them, respectively.

The words of Nu-Hatta could suggest there are other ways to mantle (Talos mantled BY WAY OF THE FOURTH, implying he could have mantled another way and that the fourth walking way is perhaps not inherently "mantling"), but what we know of successful mantling is all by the fourth. And the fifth and sixth walking ways are essentially superior to mantling in most ways- The fifth is CHIM and the sixth is the scarab that becomes the new man, Amaranth, the ascension to Godhead within a new space.

File: 1289869386281.jpg (722KB, 1600x1200px) Image search: [Google]

722KB, 1600x1200px

>>53711119
The seas. The Elder Scrolls - Privateer!

>>53746350
I always picture them with snake-like bodies with shoulders and arms. I used to think of them with snake faces but now I think of then with mostly human-like faces with snake eyes and fangs

>>53746719
On the other hand, the first two ways fit mantling fine- The Towers, built to emulate the et'Ada and as instruments to influence the world via the earth-bones, and the Psiijic Endeavour, the path walked by the prophet Veloth to attain enlightenment. The third way is more arguable- It is identified as the path the Dwemer attempted with Numidium (which, though it was a Tower, was also so much more), the gradual substantiation of physical laws without changing the whole at once until the point of incomprehensibility (using the Heart as one of their instruments). It's notable that the wording of this way in the sermons goes on about "madness," but it does not really line up well with what happens in Shivering Isles.

>>53718009
>>53718009
Are you modding out the old morrowind? what is going on here? I've been at work

>>53746810
What? That's from the Dragonborn DLC in Skyrim, and the only modded things there are better shaders (an ENB) and a silly casting animation.

>>53746834
Hah, i thought morrowind was out already. Thanks

>>53746606
>Actually I just bitch about people who claim daggerfall's lore has been tossed even though there is no genuine reason to actually believe this.
R E Y M O N E B O N A R M

>>53746870
Morrowind came out in 2002 dude///

>>53745060
It happens anon. I remember laughing.

>>53711377
I imagine Valenwood to have Giant turtles with giant tree-citties on their backs.
And that's where Wood elves normally live when they aren't fishing on the coast,

>>53746943
He's talking about the Morrowind expansion in ESO.

>>53745257
>modding Daggerfall

Can't hate on the people who are putting in the effort to make a decades-old game more fun, but you still can't get around the fact that you're still working with sprites and crude 3D shapes. Same idea with Morrowind's models to a degree - they're blocky and never are going to look as 'natural' as even Oblivion models can look.

>>53747233
>they're blocky and never are going to look as 'natural' as even Oblivion models can look.
But they literally backported over Oblivion modded bodies onto it. Even Oblivion's walking animation.

>>53746797
>mostly human-like faces with snake eyes and fangs
Man, I hope that's not what all of them look like.

>>53745443
>>53746719
Also I kinda stopped reading after the first line, so to answer the rest:
>though there is some confusion as to which actions can be attributed to which individual from among Wulfharth, Hjalti, and Arctus (with Wulfharth and Hjalti variously called Ysmir or Talos in different sources).
Talos means "stormcrown." Ysmir means "dragon of the north," and was Wulfharth's name, but became a title referring to any Dragonborn in Skyrim. So Wulfharth was the dragon of the north, and Hjalti was the dragon of the north too. Wulfharth at this time was a cloud of ash, that appeared as a stormcloud that flew about Hjalti's brow when he was in battle- thus the title "stormcrown," which could refer either to he who wore the stormcrown or to the actual crown itself, by the few, if any, in the know.

Wulfharth shouted for Hjalti, this is almost certain. At the time there were very few dragons left in the world, which we are sometimes told Talos absorbed all at once when he took the throne, yet in Redguard we see Nafaalilargus, a red dragon in his employ, while in Skyrim we learn that a handful of dragons were not raised by Alduin but had merely been hiding away in the mountains or underground for centuries. Hjalti was a young man when he came from High Rock and began his conquest, and it is unlikely that he found time to study the Thu'um. Wulfharth, on the other hand, who he met very early in his journey, was known to be one of the most powerful Tongues who ever lived, and his presence on the battlefield is what earned Hjalti the title of Talos.

>>53747358
Even more incriminating was that, after a disagreement with Wulfharth over elven genocide that caused Wulfharth to storm off (n-no pun intended (^:), Hjalti's throat was slit, and while he survived he lost his Voice and from then on was only able to speak in a whisper and never to shout or use the thu'um again (despite the power of shouts not really appearing to be directly correlated to their volume, despite the name Nords gave them, and the similar art of Ansei being described as singing in Redguard culture). Interestingly, Hjalti blamed this on an unsuccessful "breton assassin," who was never found or apprehended and didn't bother trying to finish the job. (Hjalti himself was a Breton apparently masquerading as an Atmoran, and this excuse might have been an ironic joke to himself about the true nature of the incident- He slit his own throat so that nobody would ask why he could no longer shout, once Wulfharth had left him).

So basically, even then their actions were deliberately attributed to each other by themselves to create an air of power and solidarity required in a leader with their ambitions, and even then they were functioning largely as one entity. This is especially quirky and notable because they were functioning roughly in the capacity of Akatosh (Hjalti the Dragonborn) and Lorkhan (Wulfharth the Shezarrine), though the opposite could also be argued (that Wulfharth was the soul and spoke the tongue of dragons like Akatosh and Hjalti was "merely" the vessel and the ambition like Lorkhan).

And then the next part of the story answers the last question you had, to some extent. Wulfharth learned the truth about Dagoth Ur, and realising that there was a greater threat worth allying with the Dunmer Tribunal to stop, sought to make amends with Hjalti to end this threat before it became a problem.

>>53747372
Zurin and Hjalti (now called Tiber, Hjalti never hesitated to "change" his race to suit his politics) agreed to meet with him, but in the interim they had acquired the body of Numidium from the Tribunal, and Zurin, realising what was needed to fuel it and determining an alternative, had hatched a plan with Tiber- To trap Wulfharth's enormous soul, a soul of both Lorkhan and Akatosh, in a specially prepared soulgem, and use it as a simulacrum of Lorkhan's Heart to fuel the golem. However, when Wulfharth entered the palace, Zurin was ready, and unleashed a powerful spell on him, trapping his soul. In his last breath, however, Wulfharth unleashed a concentrated shout that hollowed out Zurin's chest, killing him instantly. Tiber simply walked in and took the mantle of the three gods they had just assumed the roles of, the aptly-named Mantella, from the single corpse- To spell it out, he took the heart of Lorkhan, containing the soul of Akatosh, from a body with an open chest. In that moment, Hjalti was Trinimac, Wulfharth was Akatosh and Zurin was Lorkhan.

Akatosh and Lorkhan are components of the same being, which gained autonomy from each other in the event known as the Shattering of Lorkhan (the outcome of Convention, and literally the point at which time began). This event resulted in two separate entities- Lorkhan, the cast-off skin that the serpent shed, doomed to walk the world in mortal shells as "punishment," and Akatosh, the soul in the indestructible Heart, who was simultaneously a planetary Aedric god of Aurbis. The Underking is the shell that was left behind- the composite body-being and mind of Wulfharth and Zurin. Talos, the god, is a composite of the three (actually two) souls of Akatosh, Lorkhan and Trinimac. These souls are what Tiber bore, and when his body eventually died, it disappeared as these souls ascended to keep stability in outer Mundus as the new triple deity, Talos.

>>53747395
So to recap
>mantling is "walking like them until they must walk like you," inheriting some symbol of office and re-enacting important or major deeds of the being possessing it to take the place of that entity
>accounts blur the deeds of the three together because Hjalti and Wulfharth deliberately functioned as one person for a long time, lying about hjalti's abilities, and later Zurin and Wulfharth shared a heartless, soulless but undying body as the Underking, and their minds were apparently in conflict, with one dominating the body at a time
>Arctus and Wulfharth are a part of Talos because their souls became merged, and Tiber took that soul away from their body- The soul is part of Talos, the body is the Underking

>>53746719
>>53746809
What does mantling look to both the person going through it, and to outside observers, though?

Was their Mantling basically preordained; that is, they shared an oversoul to begin with, whose three soul-fragments collapsed into two, and then into one, with the death of their bodies? They themselves, as individual souls, would therefore live on in the other and not really see any break in continuity. (There's stories of Wulfharth actually entering Sovngarde, though.)

Would their contemporaries, who knew them as different individuals, have perceived their Mantling of one another and correctly identify Tiber Septim as an amalgamations of the three? Given how books like the The Arcturian Heresy exist and how there are different stories passed down, it seems that the observers saw them as different individuals indeed, and passed their stories down to their children, and it is only centuries later that folk memory confuses the three.

Is Mantling therefore entirely a metaphysical thing, and has no real consequences on Nirn (other than scholarly confusion centuries down the road)?

(While I was typing you posted mroe replies, gonna read them now to see if they answer these questions already.)

>>53747233
>Same idea with Morrowind's models to a degree - they're blocky and never are going to look as 'natural' as even Oblivion models can look.
You can just entirely replace models and even animations, dude. The only limitation is the engine meaning if you do too much the game will run poorly.

>>53747538
And OpenMW is around the corner

>>53747504
Observers we don't know. I mean, it obviously represents a kind of gap in perception, which, since it is not perceived, they never become aware of. A little hard to put into words but hopefully you get what I mean. But if you could strip away the filter of perception, who knows what the actual sensory input would be like. Maybe the person mantling would still just be who they were before and the previous mantlebearer would disappear.

Anyway, a lot of what we actually know about mantling from a mechanical standpoint comes from Shivering Isles, where the player character takes up the mantle of Sheogorath. Sheo explains the steps necessary to do this, and what little he, Dyus and Haskill don't spell out for you are pretty easy to pick up from books and dialogue around the Isles.

The actual point where you become Sheogorath is the moment you consecrate his (your) staff in the font of madness in New Sheoth's palace. Before that, nobody recognises you as Sheogorath, or knows that he has disappeared. As soon as you consecrate the staff, a deployment of Aureal (or Mazken, idr if it varies depending on previous choices but I'm pretty sure I got Aureal last time) bursts into the throne room and begs your forgiveness but, addressing you as Lord Sheogorath, informs you that the forces of Order have breached the courtyard. At this point you can even test their perception by verbally abusing them, which they humbly accept because you are their god.

The important thing here is that the denizens of the Isles, from that moment and without being told what you have done, and having had the fact that the "old" Sheo was going away hidden from them, recognise you as Sheogorath. Retroactively, anything you were in the middle of doing as Sheogorath's Champion is something that Sheogorath Himself had deigned to help them with, and was continuing to do in that capacity. And to you, you just kinda... Dipped a stick in water.

>>53747395
Ooh, I see now. So it is not as if the three individuals merged into one in any way, but:
A) Wulfharth and Hjalti deliberately supported each other in a way that made observers attribute their deeds variously to each other, or to them both, which is the source of the historiographic confusion.
B) The main Mantling event of Tiber Septim was the re-enactment of Lorkhan's heart being torn out, which also killed the other two, and gave Tiber Septim control over their souls.

So you can only Mantle someone who is already dead, by mimicking events that have already played out. Wulfharth and Hjalti being confused for each later on is independent of, and did not constitute Mantling (or but since Wulfharth had already been killed once or twice at that point, Hjalti could be said to havemini-Mantled Wulfharth, but w/e), and only the events when Wulfharth and Arctus killed each other did—at which point Tiber was the sole survivor anyway.

>>53747233
Daggerfall is having a modding renaissance right now, with Daggerfall Unity.

That said, there's a fair bit of really old mods for it as well, though Andyfall is pretty clearly the definitive one.

>>53747372
Here's a question I have - if Hjalti pretended that he was an Atmoran, rather than a Breton, how did the idea that he was a Breton persist?

And knowing what we know about Hjalti, do you think there was any special significance behind the Skyrim sidequest 'The Ghost of Old Hroldan?' Specifically about how the ghost mistook the Dragonborn for Hjalti.

>>53747755
People from Alcaire, people who knew him before he came up with the fake identity (the ghost). The Arcturian Heresy.

>>53747504
>Was their Mantling basically preordained; that is, they shared an oversoul to begin with
That's a harder one to answer. Wulfharth was almost definitely Dragonborn, and Hjalti was almost definitely Dragonborn. Zurin was probably Shezarrine, and Wulfharth was definitely Shezarrine. Zurin was almost definitely not a dragonborn, and Hjalti probably wasn't a Shezarrine. So they sorta shared souls with each other to some extent, maybe (probably?), but it's unclear how much of that is lies and misconceptions. Either way, after apotheosis, all were part of the shiny new Talos oversoul, which took its place in the heavens without kicking Malacath, Jone, Jode or Akatosh out of them, despite being a composite of their essence. Hjalti achieved CHIM in his lifetime, and so it is possible that not even the Elder Scrolls could have told what the three would accomplish.

As for breaks in continuity, the Underking was left dead on the floor until he regained consciousness and whisked himself away into the night, and Hjalti presumably allowed himself to die and join the Aedra, since that isn't really death and he needed to make way for his descendants. When we meet him in Morrowind as Wulf he's pretty chill about the whole thing. Basically, there were convenient breaks in consciousness for those three regardless, due to death and unconsciousness.

>Would their contemporaries, who knew them as different individuals, have perceived their Mantling
Difficult to answer for similar reasons, but if I had to guess, Wulfharth and Zurin had already been Shezarrine and just went from being two guys to being one guy sans some chestmeat, while since Talos was a new god bearing the title Hjalti had once held, and nobody would have recognised the three composite deities anyway, he likely still appeared to be Tiber except now he also appeared to be a fucking god.

Can be Vivec faking all that depth? We never see him actually use CHIM. What if he's a fucking fraud?

>>53747682
I wonder how representative that experience on the Shivering Islands is, though. You mantle a Daedric Prince in his own domain, and the domain probably immediately alters itself to accommodate the change. This may include auto-brainwashing its denizens, who are possibly attuned to perceive and act upon metaphysical concepts more than their worldly senses from living in the Shivering Isles already.

The transition when Mantling on Nirn might not go over so smoothly, but it would not go over as smoothly without Sheogorath meticulously planning the procedure anyway.

>>53747504
>Is Mantling therefore entirely a metaphysical thing, and has no real consequences on Nirn (other than scholarly confusion centuries down the road)?
No such thing as metaphysical things in TES, really. Metaphysical means more than physical and implies no real impact on the physical world. Deities exist as actual corporeal planets in space, which appear spherical because the human mind cannot actively perceive more than three spatial dimensions, but which are actually infinite planes. The abilities of a god, even a living one, are profound, though living (and thus mortal) gods don't seem to get too hung up on their mortality most of the time, presumably since dying means they just stop being mortal gods and become the other kind. Things we would consider "metaphysical" tend to have strong physical effects. I'm certain that whether he was still recognised as the same man he had been the day before, Tiber Septim was henceforth simply obviously a god if you were to look at him, like he exuded magnificence or something. Of course, he was CHIM as well, so that would have ended up the case regardless.

>>53747825
He is a fraud, as was the rest of the tribunal.

>>53747717
Sorta, but Wulfharth and Hjalti did act AS IF as one, and Zurin and Wulfharth shared a body as the Underking, but not a mind (as evidenced by him introducing himself as Zurin Arctus in Daggerfall but penning the Arcturian Heresy as Wulfharth; It is unclear whether they were even aware of the other's presence in the body, assuming I haven't misunderstood and it wasn't a hilarious case of both going their separate ways believing the other dead and doing things under the name of "Underking" while hearing them attributed to the other for some reason).

>>53747755
Insight from Wulfharth, who, being one of the mantling parties, would have an unaltered perception of events and identities mostly. Even then it's a barely persistent idea, considered a heresy and even then vague at best. The only place it's actually confirmed rather than hinted at is in C0DA, where Kyne refers to him as Manmer (a word for Breton).

>do you think there was any special significance behind the Skyrim sidequest 'The Ghost of Old Hroldan?' Specifically about how the ghost mistook the Dragonborn for Hjalti.
Yeah, along with Wulfharth affirming that the Greybeards told him so it's the best case for Hjalti actually being a Dragonborn and not lying about that detail.

>>53747825
He's a fraud, but he's CHIM too. Bar Dau is literally his proof, to remind his people that while he may be a liar and rumours (most of them true) may abound about him and his treachery, he is a god, he loves them, and if he ever stops loving them they're incredibly screwed. Plus, have you ever tried killing him? It's possible, but iirc even killing Dagoth Ur the hard way is easier. Almalexia, who has been similarly cut off from the Heart, definitely is.

>>53747881
Well, by “metaphysical” I meant “not immediately visible to mortals, except by its consequences”.
That is, as you said here: >>53747810
>he likely still appeared to be Tiber except now he also appeared to be a fucking god.
i.e. an observer would not think: “These two separate individuals I knew are now one and the same, and this makes sense to me,” rather the Mantling would be a matter of souls and essence, and it would only be immediately perceivable to others if the person doing the Mantling gained extraordinary powers (like Talos), or if their Mantling is such an obvious analogy that any educated onlooker necessarily concludes: “This was just like when X happened—this guy must be a re-incarnation of Y!”

>>53748086
Killing Vivec is actually quite easy. I did it on level 28. Killing Dagoth Ur without destroying the Heart is impossible- he heals iirc 10k HP/sec