/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls General

I AM OLDER THAN MUSIC

Daily reminder that Wheels of Lull and c0da are canon.

What's a Kapla?

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Ascended Sleepers are cute.

Reminder Vivec is a fraud

>>53749709
A unit of time.

>>53749701
>c0da are canon.
Gross.

>>53749717
This is correct.

>>53749659
>HOLY FUCK I CANT LIFT MY HEAD

>>53749738
You have shit taste.

>>53749755
Why do you think that?

>>53749717
Well, duh

The question is, would you rather have false gods that act or real gods that don't?

>>53749766
1. You dislike c0da enough to mention it.
2. Vivec isn't a fraud. Actually, jury is out on that.
3. You reply to bait, which is what I'm doing right now.

>>53749795
>3. You reply to bait, which is what I'm doing right now.
I'm doing that right now as well.

>>53749793
But Azura always help her people

>>53749701
"Canon" is a difficult term to apply to C0DA, considering it takes place in one of many possible distant futures. The backstory it establishes or more accurately elucidates is factual, which is evident from how well it fits into or explains previous loose ends, but the events aren't things that "happened" or "will happen," they're things that "could happen."

Wheels of Lull isn't canon at all.

>>53749822
What a pointless post, like every you've made so far in this thread.

Reminder that posts that start with "Reminder" are cancer, as is anyone who replies. If you don't like something, don't talk about it.

>>53749793
>The question is, would you rather have false gods that act or real gods that don't?
Well, the false god in this case killed a huge amount of people, possibly millions, so I'll go with the other gods. Even then, the other ones do things as well.

>>53749832
More or less, but she didn't have nearly as great an influence as the three-in-one

The aedra, though, are truly passive, and it's foolish to worship them

>>53749882
>Barad Dur was Vivec's fault
He lost his powers. He didn't let it fall out of spite

>>53749882
I'm going to go out on a very sturdy limb and say that if you think this you don't understand something like 50% of the lore, or more accurately 80% of Dunmer lore. Maybe started with Skyrim.

>>53749904
He had every opportunity before then to remove it, but he would rather keep it there as a threat to never stop worshiping him.

>>53749920
How so?

>>53749956
Read the Sermons. Think about Veloth and the phrase "cut yourself into better shapes." Play Morrowind and pay attention to everything.

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What race is going to make it to the next kalpa?

>>53749956
The problem is we can't know if he really intended to ever carry out his threat - in this case, the metaphorical arm holding up the rock disappeared along with Vivec, rather than being part of a intentional dropping of Barad Dur. You might as well be mad at him for disappearing.

>>53750024
None, this is the final kalpa.
Still the Dreugh though.

>>53750002
So you're saying Vivec totally did it out of the goodness of his own heart for the Dunmer as a whole, for some stupid struggle, not giving a shit that his actions caused suffering for millions?

>>53750034
The fact that he kept it there in the first place gives me serious doubts that it was an idle threat.

>>53750034
IMO it's as much a threat to himself as to the Dunmer. Remember, Vivec is his city.
Anyway, it's called LIE Rock for a reason: his guilt is always hovering over his head. When Vivec dies, the city dies. And vice versa.

>>53750067
Yes. Sort of. Can't comment so much on intentions, can only speculate. But it worked out in the end. Like I said, read more. If you have, read it until you get it.

>>53750024
As far as I remember, none of the human races make it, so it's gotta be either the beast races one of the kinds of elves. I want to say Dunmer.

>>53750067
You can hold a gun and never intend to shoot it, though - it's not your fault if it's dropped (when you disappear from existence) and it goes off and shoots someone.

>>53750097
>But it worked out in the end.
I don't really see it. Redoran has more power these days, cool. But it looks like the Dunmer as a whole are now in a shittier place in general.

>>53750139
I'm not just talking about the time period Skyrim is set in. I'm taking about centuries down the road. I'm talking about Amaranth.

>>53749709
A kalpa is the measure of time from the beginning of the universe to the end of it (or rather, its rebirth). Unit of time isn't exactly accurate, since each kalpa is a bit longer than the last in TES. It's a Buddhist concept irl.

Since it's a measure of time, there are constants across every kalpa that make them very similar, because there were events that preceded time (namely, the creation of Nirn, everything else that happened before the Convention, the Convention itself and the event caused by Convention, the Shattering of Lorkhan, which in turn caused time to crystallise- this is called the Dawn Era). Things flowing directly from Convention (the creation of the moons and some version of Tamriel, and the erection of Ada-Mantia) must therefore be a constant across all kalpas as well.

Yokuda was apparently the "main" continent from a previous kalpa, transposed to this one by weird redguard magic but later destroyed by different redguard magic. One of Kirkbride's more dubious texts purports that the Nords have a ballad where Lorkhan or Molag Bal and Mehrunes Dagon worked together across many kalpas to preserve pieces of them in a ploy to assassinate Alduin, as punishment for which Alduin turned Mehrunes Dagon into the Prince of Destruction and tasked him with destroying these preserved pieces. That's got shit like Alduin talking like a 90s mall rat though, so... Yeah.

>>53749717
>>53749861
fuck you retard

>>53749904
No, he disappeared. He kept it up for some time after he "lost" "his" "powers," long enough for mortals to construct a makeshift device to keep it up a while longer.

Vivec was a bad dude through and through. His love was true, it was the source of his power, but he loved in pretty much the worst way.

>>53750162
Are you talking about c0da or something?

>>53750168
Yes.

>>53750179
Oh. I just see that as some fanfiction with no bearing on anything. So I disregard it.

>>53750024
I remember reading that this kalpa is the dream of a major being from the previous kalpa. I forgot who/which it was… Anui-El? I'm probably mixing things up, though.

If a kalpa ends, what gets destroyed and what remains? Is only Mundus destroyed, but Aetherius remains (since IIRC the Redguards wait out the transition at the Far Shores, which is part of Aetherius)?

>>53750046
>final kalpa
wat

>>53750185
Which is exactly the same thing as ignoring the last chapter of a book and then complaining that the story made no sense or that you don't understand the character motivations. You unfathomable fucking retard.

>>53750212
>You unfathomable fucking retard.
Wew. Think I touched a nerve there.

>>53750191
You're mixing up kalpa and dreams. Kalpa are a phenomenon, a cycle, within the dream.

>>53750228
It's not like this conversation has happened, oh, a hundred fucking times before or anything.

>>53750229
Ah, that clears it up, thanks.

So what's the official consensus on the disappearance of the Dwemer? Did they all simultaneously Zero-Sum themselves or was it something else? Why did Yagrum Bagarn's being in an "Outer Realm" protect him?

>>53750258
Apparently they all merged with Numidium.

>>53750258
They became the metaphorical skin of the Numidium.

>>53750258
Also, semi-unrelatedly, does the constellation of the Tower have anything to do with the Tower that Lorkhan saw the universe as?

>>53750288
That's likely, but there's not much significance beyond that. Like the constellations Warrior, Mage, et al.

>>53749841
>Wheels of Lull isn't canon at all.

It is. Go play the new ESO: Morrowind.

>>53750024
Tsaesci, this is what Kirkbride meant when he said the future was to the east

>>53750034
Why do you keep spelling Baar Dau like that

>>53750046
>dreugh
>redguards
>hist
Have any other sapient races survived the heckoning before?

>>53750185
>>53750212
You're both retards. C0DA is like in-setting speculative fiction, not a certain prophecy. That was MK's whole point with the "c0da philosophy" spiel, or more accurately the point of dumping that hot load alongside the C0DA script. If things had gone or go any differently at any point in Tamriel's history the setting could be different in many ways and especially speculations that seem plausible and fit into the lore now but aren't technically "canon" could be the case in that alternate timeline. It was literally just "haha what if TES was like comics" (in that comics have frequent reboots with the conceit that their universe has a branching timeline, meaning every time things could go one way or another two similar but divergent timelines are produced), so C0DA built into it in two ways: by being in one of MANY POSSIBLE futures, and by being a fucking comic book script.

On the other hand it's written by one of the most established and prolific writers for the series as a more serious work than his little nuggets of shit he liked to troll r/teslore with for example, and endorsed by the currently most credible writer on the team. You'd be wise not to ignore the things it establishes about the past and "present" of the setting (Hjalti was a Breton, the Dwemer did indeed Numidium-skin themselves, Memory dwells in Nirn, Nirn's core is a bizarre magical clockwork that Sotha Sil was built into, Tosh Raka is in fact living Akatosh's development backward, Numidium could still come back and would severely fuck shit up, AlmSiVi still exist in some form (and even if they returned, they would still be rampant propagandists), Akatosh dwells in Lorkhan's Heart).

>>53750258
In some thread on /v/ or /vg/ long agosomeone theorised, and backed up with both canon texts that allude to the Dwemer “singing” on Numidium, and something about Dwemer remote-controlled technology using atomised soul fragments like radio waves to send commands to their machines over long distances, that the Dwemer basically shattered their souls into infinitesimally small fragments, which coat the Numidium.
Something about how, since most stuff in the TES universe is a chain of Dreamers breaking up their selves into fragments within the Dream, who then further fragment into smaller aspects of themselves, that the Dwemer sought to take this to its logical conclusion and shattered/atomised their souls into the smallest possible fragments.

>>53750212
Go home Kirkbride

>>53750258
>Why did Yagrum Bagarn's being in an "Outer Realm" protect him?
It was a sound or tone, a great vibration, that drew them in. He was too far away for it to reach him.

>>53750328
>go play a new noncanon work
Thanks for the chuckle, anonerino.

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Best shrine?

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>>53750258
Using their new god-like powers, they finally constructed structures and ropes strong enough to support their massive frames in order to hang themselves like the disgusting fedora neckbeards they were.

>>53750516
I like the one that looks like a vagina hyuck hyuck hyuck

honestly, Ar'kay's looks the coolest but I'm more inclined to say Julianos just because Ar'kay's a busta.

Anyone else ever get the feeling that Kynareth's and Dibella's got swapped for some reason?

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>>53750653
Blossoming flowery shapes remind me more of Dibella to be honest. For obvious reasons.

>>53750719
But I mean, Kynareth's is a LITERAL vulva, while Kynareth is a goddess of nature and growth. Dibella's also looks sort of like a womb symbol, but Dibella is more about the actual fucking where Kynareth is about fertility, so even then they feel swapped.

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So could the Hist theoretically give a newly reincarnated Argonian their old memories from their previous life to them?

>>53750866
Possibly.

Though their preferred method seems to be that if they ever need to give an Argonian a glimpse into the past, they just make him see it through the Hist. Like how Mere-Glim sees Lilmoth in the past.

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>>53750370
Kinda like this?

>>53750516
I think the best shrine is that of Stendarr - that 'free-floating' horn pouring one out is amazing, and stands out so much from all the others. I think Mara's shrine would actually be more fitting for Kynareth's - the swirling patterns look a lot more like wind.

>>53750719
But for amulets, I have to say Zenithar. Simple, business-like - you can't argue with a silver pendant, especially one that looks to be of pleasantly simple, but sturdy, craftsmanship - most have chains that are so ornate and don't seem good for wear by the lay believer. Only the Talos amulet comes close to that simple and practical design, and they all look verdigrised (rather fitting for an outlawed god, but still).

>>53749659
Previous thread because OP seems to have forgotten.
>>53710486
>>53710486

>>53749832
Yes, specially when she lets the Khajiit be enslaved and their moons be hidden.

>>53750191
Something something...Alduin defeated...something

>>53751143
She only likes the Dunmer

>tfw playing TESVI in dream and its better than any previous gane
>tfw wake up

fuck you todd

>>53751199
How was it, dreamboy?

>>53751228
it was actually just daggerfall 2 but with actual content everywhere and not in gamebryo

>>53751173

>And so the Tongues freed us from Alduin's rage,
>Gave the gift of the Voice, ushered in a new Age!
>And if Alduin's eternal, then eternity's done,
>For his story is over and the dragons are gone.

>>53751258
>High Rock
Eww

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>>53750067
Baar Dau was a grand act of, dare I say, "poetry."
A kind of final slap in the face, if you will, so the Dunmer realize they're on their own now and the gravity (in this case literally) of what that means, like 'hey think fast!'
It was definitely an evil thing to do but it was what the Dunmer needed to move on. Coming together and conquering your issues head on is kind of what the whole Velothi condition is about.
Note that the last time Vvardenfell erupted, was during the War of the First Council. When the Chimer changed into the Dunmer, and the Tribunal began their ascension into a new age. Now that shit is in the past and they must change again, and find a new way forward.
As I said, "poetry."

>>53751420
They should have fucking mined the rest of it and throw the pebbles somewhere else

>>53750990
Nah, it was more technical and autistic.

>>53751308
That seems to be more straightforward than you're making it out to be, anon - it's just saying that Alduin was famed to be immortal, but no longer existed (until his reappearance, obviously, but the songwriters were presumably existent before that). It says nothing about this being the last kalpa.

>>53751420
it's like pottery it rhymes

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>>53750866
That's my headcanon as to what the whole sap ritual is about, but I don't have any hard evidence for it.
The hist certainly do retain memories from the argonians, even as far back as Redguard it seems implied that the entire species purpose is to gather experiences and memories.

>>53750990
tfw pretty sure I wrote this because it rambles on for so long and is in my style but not positive because it was three years ago

>>53751075
>the swirling patterns look a lot more like wind
They're knots, fits Mara well imo.

>>53751075
>most have chains that are so ornate and don't seem good for wear by the lay believer
Kynareth's is a leather cord, what do you want

>>53751143
>lets
Nigger do you think she can do anything on Nirn directly? The whole point of Oblivion is that Akatosh agreed to rewrite the terms of his covenant, and now it doesn't matter if a dragonborn emperor sits on the throne, he's not letting Princes waltz around on Nirn. Best she can do is send agents to do her bidding or appear as an illusion.

What does the 37th sermon mean?

>>53750191
>I remember reading that this kalpa is the dream of a major being from the previous kalpa. I forgot who/which it was… Anui-El? I'm probably mixing things up, though.
Not quite. Someone from an entirely previous universe, not just a previous kalpa in this one. It was Anu, a being who projected himself as the concept of Stasis in this one. Anui-el is his soul, so you pretty much got that part right, mostly.

>If a kalpa ends, what gets destroyed and what remains? Is only Mundus destroyed, but Aetherius remains (since IIRC the Redguards wait out the transition at the Far Shores, which is part of Aetherius)?
Mundus is destroyed, but at least part of Oblivion remains, because the Hist hid in Oblivion. Aetherius is outside of even that, and the Yokudans hid out there, so presumably it remains too, yeah.

>wat
Just a theory a gay theory

Assuming he's not referring to the erroneous notion that breaking all of the Towers will end reality (it will only allow Tamriel to sink into the ocean, like Lyg and Yokuda before it) or the mistaken idea that C0DA is an inevitability, he's probably talking about the ending of Skyrim.

Paarthurnax tries to talk you out of going after Alduin, saying that sometimes something must end to make way for something new and so on (he even namedrops kalpas). It's fairly well-known that Alduin eats the world so that a new kalpa can begin, resetting everything before things go too far off the rails and something that DOES threaten all of reality happens. This kalpa, Alduin was already being a bit weird, and for that he was sealed away until a future date, when he would be unleashed to do what he was meant to. But instead, the Last Dragonborn kills him, preventing the kalpa from ending.

Of course, you don't absorb his soul, he just breaks, which, while he breaks pretty badly, is still probably something the Jills will fix as well as they can. The Greybeards pretty much tell you that means he'll be back one day.

>>53751992
>Of course, you don't absorb his soul, he just breaks
The dragon breaks? Really makes you think.

>>53749712
I wonder how sex with them would feel? those tentacles look like they could get into some nice pkaces and im drunk.
>>53750516
Shrine to arkay for the win! Its simple and nice. >>53750719
Kynraths amulet is the best.

>>53751420
>gravity
>one of the core virtues of House Redoran, who rose to prominence in the wake of the Red Year
like, dare I say, "pottery"

>>53752053
Yep. 103.9% sure that was the whole point. Why Skyrim is the first game since Daggerfall to contain mutually exclusive choices that should have a profound impact on the future etc etc.

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>>53752086
>>53751420
>Gravity
Well, if I ever run a UESRPG game, I know what I'm going to make the Priest of Boethiah BBEG like.

Either that, or roleplay him if I ever decide to re-download Skyrim

>>53750486
ESO is canon, that it isn't is a meme like "engine limitations"

>>53752206
Spiral Staircase
Ancestor Moth
Ruins Street
Ash Yam Tart
Ancestor Moth
Subgradient
Ancestor Moth
Convention
Lythandas
Ehlnofey
Nirnroot
Ancestor Moth
Convention
Secret Emperor
Finally, I have reached CHIM! I can now follow you, Vivec.

>>53752403
>that it isn't is a meme like "engine limitations"
So a meme but also accurate?

>>53752620
No, more that it's a meme that came from one person on /v/ saying something, and people acting like that's the truth. Todd (or anyone at Bethesda) has never said anything about engine limitations. They have also never said that ESO wasn't canon.

>>53752901
>it's a meme that came from one person on /v/ saying something
You are delusional if you believe this to be the case.

>>53753239
That's exactly where it came from. Nobody has ever said "engine limitations" at Bethesda.

>>53753489
I was talking about "ESO is not canon." That's a "meme" in that it's a simple and oft-repeated phrase that is favoured over other phrasings of the same idea, but it originated not from "on person on /v/ saying [it]" but from the fact that ESO is not only not written by anyone that writes for the main series but contradicts or "retcons" established canon in a slew of stupid and arbitrary ways (which Colonel Sanders tried to play off, which was admittedly pretty sad to see, how much he and the whoever else they had interacting with the community struggled to keep up with pretty much every detail of their garbage version of Tamriel being scrutinised and questioned), and was made with a shoddy team pulled together by corporate suits who are completely out of touch with the audience of their IP that spent more on advertising than developing the game (and, while it's neither here nor there, had a gratuitous pay model to begin with and was still a financial failure).

>>53753489
This isn't really tg, but todd talking about tes6 he specifically says the technology isn't there yet.
https://youtu.be/LiBEfBQvOYU?t=3m50s
As anyone who plays any modern game that isn't on any bethesda engine would know, the technology is there. It's never been the technology the user can buy that limits games. It's been there. It's THEIR technology that isn't there. Bethesda's technology. aka their engine.
So their engine isn't there yet. What they can do is limited by their engine not being there yet.
So to summarize, "(engine limitations)" -toddhoward.

>>53753667
This is slmost the exact argument of why oblivion was not canon btw.

>>53753667
None of the tes games are canon by that logic anon. Maybe you don't actually know what canon means, it means not the shit you make up in your head.

>>53753784
Well, this is a lore thread not a canon thread.

>>53753489
Similarly, nobody ever said ESO wasn't canon, what they did say was that ESO doesn't affect development of TES6.

>>53751686
A symbol that ain't shit.

Yeah, I fucking said it.

>>53753728
>a game that was actually worked on and written by people who had worked on and written Daggerfall and Morrowind
>that retconned one (1) thing that was arbitrary
Yeah, it's similar to what Morrowind babies said about Oblivion, but the difference is that here it's accurate.

>>53753784
"Canon" means "part of the core body of work" or in this case "that shit plus shit that is stated by the active authors of it." ESO lies outside of that.

>every TES game retconned things, so they're not canon by that logic
There's a fundamental difference here. Morrowind retconned the Eight Divines to be Nine and the nature of Numidium. Oblivion retconned... Pretty much just Cyrodiil's heartland from being a jungle to being a forested river basin. Skyrim (which, iirc, has the lowest ratio of previous writers involved of any mainline game thus far, but it still had some of the important ones which is what matters) retconned Nords into being just absolutely way into dragons, like in every aspect of their art and culture. ESO retcons the lusty argonian maid into the second era, retcons the Chim-el Adabal into being a drop of blood that fell on Cyrodiil as Lorkhan's heart passed over it on its apparently curved trajectory from Balfiera to Red Mountain, retcons the Bretons to have had an ancient alliance with the Redguards AND the Orsimer, retcons moon sugar into literal non-opiate sugar, etc. Do you see the difference here? The mainline retcons are to enrich the game and build on existing lore (except for the removal of Ebonarm and Cyrodiil's lack of jungle), and ESO's are because the writers didn't actually know shit about the setting, and when scolded for it tried writing more "deep" lore while still basically ignorant of all but the most entry level data (eg they read about the Towers but didn't bother learning their history, so WGT is identified as Tower One in a book written in faux-Kirkbride style).

>>53754018
>retconned one (1) thing
bruh
>that was arbitrary
BRUH

Nope, done taking you seriously. I recommend the other guy to just stop replying to you too.

>>53753861
Bethesda hasn't officially disavowed ESO, even if the writers or developers wanted to they obviously wouldn't because they are owned by Zenimax. However, ESO is made by a different studio staffed by different people and was deliberately set far apart from the main games during a period that was "lost to history" by the timeframe of the main games (which we HAVE been told, officially, was part of the rationale) to prevent it from affecting the lore of the main games. Problems arise when it still blatantly retcons parts of the setting that aren't just adding some dumb poorly-written books but radically altering the early history of the setting because someone doesn't know their geography or anachronisms where a book that we meet the middle-aged human author of in Morrowind exists hundreds of years prior.

>>53754059
Then I guess you won't tell me what else you think they retconned, or why you think that retconning Cyrodiil's jungle away was a wise and well-thought-out decision rather than an arbitrary one?

>>53754018
Anon, you need to write a larger essay, show me the depths of your autism reguarding this topic. I won't believe a word you say unless it's at least 3 pages long and uses standard 1-3-1 format. Until you're done, I'll just assume you're wrong.

>>53754146
Ah, the old "you appear more literate than me so I win..." argument, a classic.

>>53754133
>even if the writers or developers wanted to they obviously wouldn't because they are owned by Zenimax.

None of the writers have even suggested such a thing. MK loves it, Kuhlman loves it, Rolston loves it.

>>53754214
>MK loves it
He sure didn't until his girlfriend got into it.

>>53754223
He did before that actually, he and Schick are friends.

>>53754168
no anon, you misread that too, it's the "you're more autistic than me" argument, but apparently you can't into reading comprehension either.

>>53754236
He didn't though, he threw a fit about it and even posted some edgy avant-garde "I'm probably about to kill some people"/ARG type video on his youtube channel about it, with Schick's words with high reverb echoing repeatedly while a bunch of indistinct black and white shit blurred around and MK rustled around and moaned. They were also just "friends" on facebook, as in, had each other on their friends lists and didn't interact until Novajam's video of them fighting in one of the WWE games where MK kicks Sanders' face in, which MK shared and tagged Schick in the post. MK had nothing positive to say about it until LN started getting into it, and any time he actually talked (as in, in a video, not typing) about it he always sounded devoid of emotion as he said yeah, it's great.

>>53754337
I think you're projecting a little heavy there.

>>53754337
>about it he always sounded devoid of emotion as he said yeah, it's great.

That's always how MK sounds.

>>53754337
Oh yeah and lest I forget, when ESO was announced MK went on a huge spree deleting his old posts on forums and having pictures of himself taken down all over the place. Like he was beyond weird about it.

>>53754337
Michael Kirkbride? Why does anyone care about the opinion of some shitty writer at Telltale Games?

>>53754236
>He did before that actually, he and Schick are friends.
He went on a rant about how tolkienized the Altmer were and that the alliances made no sense. I believe it was on the official Bethesda forums too. He was upset that they weren't the nazi elves he wrote for PGE 1E, which was written in the closing years of the second era and thus not long after ESO took place.

>>53754440
idk I just thought he was a better writer than the ones at Zenimax Online Studios so he seemed like a good example

>>53754477
Kirkbride hasn't worked at Beth in almost 20 years. He's a determined fanfic tes writer at this point and isn't even responsible for half the shit you fags pretend he is. You should be going on about Ken Rolston or Mark Nelson.

>>53754580
Now THESE are memes.

>>53754633
>Now THESE are the truth
fify

>>53754633
But it is true people ignore a lot of other just as important content creators. This isn't unique to tes, but it must suck for others who worked hard on their shit.

>>53754580
>and isn't even responsible for half the shit you fags pretend he is
I'm pretty sure most of us here have seen the list of MKs works.

Is there any mod I can slap into Skyrim that adds a source of income that's not crafting/killing things? I'm just bothered that there are so few choices to do so for RP. Even just having all innkeepers buy firewood would go a long way towards making it less annoying.

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>>53754813
There's mods that let you run businesses and such, I forget the exact names though. I think there's farming mods as well.

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>>53754474
Dug up the old thread where Michael Kirkbride complained about ESO's lore:
http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1419661-the-teso-lore-questions-and-concerns-thread-1/page-2

>Ugh, so far the Aldmeri Dominion is pretty horrible.

>To take the Aldmeri Dominion in general, and the Altmer specifically...
>...when these Tolkien-rips were suddenly revised into Nazi Numerically Named Baby Killers, nobody cared. In fact, those that mattered loved the idea. Oh look! An LOTR Inversion. [censored] finally.
>This "new" version of them is just... ohai TSR/Pathfinder/MtG/Safeway. And shame on it.
>Really. Shame on this [censored]. It's hackneyed and trope'd and without any literary courage whatsoever.
>Ugh.
>Queen Aryenn, stepping out of an airport bookstore near you.
>PGE1: we weren't worried about alienating an audience, we were worried about finding one.
>Careful what you wish for.

>I'm saying that I would prefer to have adventured, MMO-style, in an environment as described in the link*. As opposed to the boring [censored] Aldmeri Dominion described in the current ESO lore.
*he linked the PGE1 Aldmeri Dominion chapter earlier in the thread.

>Random poster: So if the Nords are leading the Dunmer and Argonians, why is it called the 'Ebonheart Pact'? Also, are we to believe the Tribunal would submit to Nords during the height of their power?
>MK: No, you are to submit to the idea that Morrowind came out in 2002, whereas Skyrim came out last year.
>Another random poster: Historically speaking, of the three, the Nords are the only ones who really care what is going on in Cyrodiil if they can help it.
>MK: Apologist. "Historically" and "marketing-wise" are becoming synonymous.

That's just some highlights. MK certainly had a lot of unkind things to say about ESO when it was first revealed.

>we've reached the point where ESO haters are significantly more annoying than people who actually play ESO

>>53754758
Oh, definitely. But Kirkbride's last confirmed work for the series was 6 years ago, and last credited work was 11 years ago. The most recently anyone wrote for the series was 5 years ago, so...

>>53754921
Bethesda could literally come out tonight and say every single iota of teso is hard canon, and we'd still get bitching.

>>53754921
I suppose now's not a good time to ask for more info on the Dro-m'Athra.

>>53754958
Well no shit, then it would be bitching about Bethesda instead of just bitching about retards who don't matter. There would be substantially more bitching, if anything.

>>53754168
That's an argument? How does that even work?

>>53754813
>Even just having all innkeepers buy firewood would go a long way towards making it less annoying.
Pretty sure almost every village does have someone who will buy firewood from you and a log to chop wood on, though. Presumably they put that and the mining thing in place when they still thought they were gonna put effort into the economy. fun fact, you can mine by actually hitting the node with pickaxes, not just activating the node. dual wield power attacks completely mine out a node in only two attacks iirc

I don't know of any mods like that for Skyrim, but I loved them for Oblivion. Going around barding and trying to scrape up enough for a horse while keeping myself fed was oddly fun.

>>53754813
There are the farmers that will buy cabbages and such from you, and I think some mill owners will pay you for chopping wood. Maybe even the same idea for mines. And that's all in the vanilla game.

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>>53754869
here's a post I remember of his on TIL

>>53754758
That's fair. Kurt Kuhlmann I think most recognize, if only because MK is so vocal about his contributions. The most underrated writer would probably be Ted Peterson. He basically invented TES lore before MK came into the picture, and even after MK and Kurt set the tone for the rest of the series by creating the cultures and histories of all the provinces in the Pocket Guide to the Empire, it was Ted who actually fleshed them out within MK's framework with some of the best historical fiction books original to Morrowind, like 2920 and A Dance in Fire.

There's two popular misunderstandings: one is that MK basically made all the lore, and the other that MK only made the "weird" metaphysical lore and only in Morrowind. The truth is in between: MK was far from the only writer and arguably not even the most important one, but he had an enormous impact on all aspects of the lore, all the way from some of the the most basic facts about each race of Tamriel to the very nature of the universe and its gods. His contributions to The Elder Scrolls world and lore are hard to overstate, which makes it all the more impressive that they actually ARE overstated so frequently. I suppose that's just what happens when one writer talks a lot fucking more than the rest, even long after he left the company.

>>53755027
It's like a crackpot arguing with an expert in his field ending up at "I don't know what you just said but you're stupid." Except in those cases it's more entertaining to watch because the person saying so is usually more obviously deranged.

>>53755137
Good post, capped

>>53755137
Kuhlman does stuff, pretty sure he does most of the dwemer lore. I swear he was Fyr in Sotha Sil's Last Words.

>>53755200
that person specifically mentioned Kuhlmann

though if you mean being vocal and meshing with the community, he does so more than most of the writers but still a lot less than Kirkbride

here's a good one btw
https://www.imperial-library.info/node/2234

>>53755103
>>53754869
So much butthurt. He is just mad that they didn't hire him

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>>53755071
While we're talking about the economy, might as well discuss something I've been thinking about when it comes to playing Elder Scrolls games - while it's very hard to avoid the instinct of 'grab as much loot as physically possible to carry,' do you think the game would be more fun if you only took the choicest bits? Not even just in a minimizing weight sense, but a few light jewels and maybe an enchanted weapon that stands out.

I felt this in Oblivion especially, that I was learning Feather and carrying around boots with a Feather effect just so I could carry even more stuff, but in Skyrim it gets even worse when it's hard to even sell off what you've gotten after a point because of the gold limits on vendors. Is it enough of a hassle to skip out on, or do you lose something from the game if you aren't trying to accumulate wealth and work towards some vague goal?

>>53755103
Feels a bit bad to ever see a setting turned apart and twisted for the sake of marketing. Gameplay I can at least understand - if you need three factions, gotta slam a few races together - but marketing and popularity can really fuck up stuff.

>>53755137
Do you happen to remember an article on the UESP by someone who had worked on Morrowind? This was just before the release of Oblivion or right on it - only thing I clearly remember him talking about was how they worried that the Imperial Cult questline wouldn't be done in time. Just cool to read stuff like that, by people who by that point were no longer involved in the games.

>>53755137
His most important texts would undoubtedly have to be "the Monomyth" and "Varieties of Faith in the Empire." Those are undeniably core-texts of the Elder Scrolls lore.

There's also PGE1 (probably THE most important text in TES lore) but we're not completely sure on how much of it was him and how much Kuhlmann.

>"eso is a poor source of information"
>"you are just repeating what some random person said once"
>"no here is why it is a poor source of information"
>"well kirkbride liked it!"
>"he didn't and here's a mountain of evidence"
>"who cares about kirkbride!!!"
jesus do we have a real actual paid shill here

>>53755296
>Do you happen to remember an article on the UESP by someone who had worked on Morrowind? This was just before the release of Oblivion or right on it - only thing I clearly remember him talking about was how they worried that the Imperial Cult questline wouldn't be done in time. Just cool to read stuff like that, by people who by that point were no longer involved in the games.
Yes, that was the Douglas Goodall interview. He did something like half of the faction quests in Morrowind and was responsible for a lot of the encrypted texts and stuff like that. I remember him giving hints on decoding them on the forums some 15 years ago. If you google for him you'll find it. RPGCodex should have an even more complete version of it with some of Goodall's later comments too; that's where I first found it back when MK was going crazy trying to get it taken down everywhere.

>>53755316
see >>53754921

>>53755343
victim blaming, the troll is to blame not the fish that bites his bait

>>53755343
>want to talk about some of ESO's new lore, can't because there's always gonna be bitching
>but let's exhaust the same five topics we've talked about to death

>>53755326
>I was also disappointed with the main quest in Morrowind. Frankly, the main quest never made sense to me, and I felt it contradicted too much existing lore.
>I couldn't get emotionally involved in the main quest or discern the motivations of the key players.
Holy shit that reminds me of the "GET THEE BEHIND ME, PC-SATAN!" copypasta.

>>53755297
>but we're not completely sure on how much of it was him and how much Kuhlmann.
Probably somewhere around half-and-half with maybe even some minor input from Todd Howard given how it's ultimately the product of those three's brainstorming sessions. Michael Kirkbride and Kurt Kuhlmann are the only two officially credited for writing the Redguard manual and in that order, so when in doubt I'd err on the side of Kirkbride but it's really anyone's guess. Even so, just writing half of that massive document which practically defined the setting -- given how little outside of the Iliac Bay area was explored before that -- is worthy of much respect.

>>53755326
Why would MK want it taken down?

>>53755296
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/General:Douglas_Goodall_Interview
Fun fact, this used to be on TIL but was taken down after Kirkbride threw a hissy fit about Goodall's llight criticism of Morrowind and Bethesda.
Link is to Sinder Velvin's account of what happened;
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/interview-critical-of-bethesda-rubbed-out.10403/#post-172722

Here's another interview with Goodall, this one still up on TIL.
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/interviews-douglass-goodall

>>53755471
It was very critical of Ken Rolston, the lead designer of Morrowind and Oblivion (which was in development at the time). He was also critical of Morrowind in general and even took a jab at Todd by implying he mainly cares about action.

>>53755397
>implying the new lore is worth discussing

>>53755297
>>53755468
Given the artstyle it's fair to say that all of the illustrations in the PGE are Kirkbride's work as well, for whatever that's worth.

>>53755509
There's lots of cool shit. Truth in Sequence, Barilzar's deal, the dro-Mathblasters, whatever the fuck is up with the fake Ruddy Man, demiprinces.

>>53755514
Pretty sure the picture of Tiber Septim in the PGE1E was also modeled on his face, so that's somewhat amusing.

>>53755525
Please don't tell me you fight the Ruddy Man...

>>53755514
He definitely penned all of the handwritten notes inside as well, which there are a lot of. Note however that that does not necessarily mean he WROTE them. Obviously they would want a consistent handwriting so he could just as easily have copied Kuhlmann's suggestions for where and what to write on his chapters.

Realistically I think the whole thing was more of a collaborative effort where they both worked together to write each chapter, even if just one person wrote the first draft for any given one.

>>53755509
I just wanna know what the fuck a daedron is.

And this is a petty complaint, but it always seems like their Q&As where a character is responding to them always jabs at the people trying to ask questions, and sometimes even avoids making a proper answer by insulting how they asked it (acting in character or something). Seems rather mean and even self-centered.

>>53755599
Oh please, you recreated that battle in Koal Cave, learn your Morrowind.
It's not the Ruddy Man, you have pilgrims going nuts and claiming it is, but it's established early on that it is not. However... it is a dreugh that shows a remarkable amount of intelligence, and has a very human face.

>>53755616
Honestly, some of the people who ask those questions fucking deserve the passive aggresion.

>>53755616
I'm pretty sure that daedrons are basically the most basic stuff that makes up daedra. I heard someone call them sentient asshole particles. There's not too much info. They're some fundamental force, but apparently dangerous because the aurora borealis actively blocks them.

Kirkbride's fanfiction is not canon, get over it

>>53755693
Get over yourself.

>>53755693
Truly a god-tier troll attempt

>>53755672
Probably incorrect. Remember, the etymology of daedra is D- AE DRA, NOT IS ANCESTORS (is not our ancestors). Singular of Dra is Droth, not Dron. Daedron would be "NOT IS [dron]." Question is what "dron" is. They could be antimatter or something, or, considering the limited context in which they're spoken of (assuming there's any meaning to it to begin with), something that interferes with magicka (maybe NOT IS [conductive of starlight]?).

>>53755693
Eh, I'd say it's about on par with ESO. It occupies that weird semi-canon state where there is some inner knowledge that normal fans don't have involved in its creation but without the involvement of an official Bethesda employee. It's more like "canon until any contradiction is found in past, present, or future true canon lore".

>>53755765
Here's quote, if it helps:

>You mortals—so good at acquiring knowledge, and so quick to learn the wrong lessons from it! Allow me to misinterpret: particles of chaotic creatia, when flowing in reaction to the exertion of will, become daedrons that, though injurious to the mortal form, can nonetheless perform work. Underutilized daedrons usually return to quiescence—but if imbued with sufficient purpose, they may escape and coalesce to form potentia vortices. These are dangerous if allowed to self-optimize into realm-rips, so it's best to damp them out early. Trying to keep ahead of it all keeps Peryite mighty busy, but nobody's really sorry for him—after all, he earned it.

>>53755765
>According to the demiprince Fa-Nuit-Hen, Peryite is in charge of keeping daedrons - chaotic creatia made sentient from the exertion of Daedric or mortal will from causing damage in Oblivion, mainly through events known as 'realm-rips

Is the best I could find. Chaotic creatia is the basic substance that makes up daedra, and most of Oblivion in fact. It's what forms around the essence of the daedra to give them form.
This actually all sounds pretty horrifying.

>>53755815
So yeah, sentient asshole particles.

>>53755815
>>53755817
>>53755834
So we can just call it the Lyg's Boson.

>>53755927
Yeah if you want to be an amateur metaphysicst. That's like confusing the atomos with the nanomagicka channel.

>>53755955
>That's like confusing the atomos with the nanomagicka channel.
Consider me an amateur metaphysicist then, because this is the first I've heard of there being anything other than a semantic distinction between them.

>>53755817
It was originally a Morrowind thing, which is its only c a n o n appearance. Also a brief but unhelpful mention in the PGE2E. I'm taking anything from ESO with a grain of salt and less.

>>53755927
lol

>>53755955
Oh come now, it's a lovely pun. Should be glad it isn't Lyg's Bowel Movement, what with them being 'asshole particles.'

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Did anyone try asking God about daedrons? Wouldn't the be the simplest and most direct way to get answers?

>>53755986
Anyone who studies the conceptual aspects of things will know that the nanomagicka channel is the smallest possible channel available, but the atomos is the smallest possible possibility available. The atomos says "You can't cut me, I'm the smallest", and everything bases itself off of that argument. When the Yokudans split the atomos, it is not an unleashing of energy, but the destruction of concept. The nearby reality looks at the cut up reality and finds no reason to go along with all this rule-following shit, and so does its neighboring reality, and before long the oceans are split to the sound of purple and people are burned to nothing by the horrible smell of the weekend.

>>53756028
I should really replay Morrowland to its fullest at some point. Or at least figure out HOW to play it. I know there's tons more content that is just as hilarious.

>>53756045
It seems naive to me to assume it's a breaking of all the rules rather than a revealing of new rules altogether. Something even more fundamental than the atomos or the nanomagicka channels they traverse. Could not these be manifestations of the interactions of an even lower level field? Sure, reduction beyond the atomos is impossible if you maintain assumption of causality, but causality was always the weakest of assumptions to begin with. Abandon that and there is nothing forbidding it, although the laws may be yet unwritten. In my eyes, the fact that reality broke down the relationship between effects after the split is in SUPPORT of these more fundamental non-causal laws from which the atomos emerges. At the very least, it's more plausible to me than pure unreasonable randomness. I am convinced that Todd does not play dice.

>>53756157
>I am convinced that Todd does not play dice.
Stop telling Todd what to do!

>>53756201
>Stop telling Todd what to do!
Only if he comes to E3 please. It's not too late.

>>53756157
Careful now, that's dwemer thinking right there. Pretty soon you'll be bonding yourself to robot skin and putting your waifu's soul into a robot.

>>53756133
Alright, is there parts of ESO: Morrowind you don't like?

>>53756215
The Dwarves are actually all hiding underground on an uncharted island building weapons and robots and planning their revenge. They'll be back soon, and when that time comes... let's just say that the politically fractured world of Tamriel will be in grave need of a Hero.

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>>53756228
The Telvanni towers. Fuck them being stone, they look awful when they're stone (and it makes it all the worse because the actual mushroom part of the architect is great).
Fyr's personality is nice, but his voice being the generic wizard voice puts me off. Similarly Vivec is generic young wizard's voice with a filter. There are new voice actors so clearly they can get other people.
This is down to personal preference but I didn't like the new dungeons using the Sotha Sil tileset. It makes sense (they were built after the clockwork city, which is fairly old content), and it makes them look much better since vanilla's dwemer tileset is shit, but in some cases it takes away from the wow factor of the clockwork city, even if the city makes everyone cream their pants when they first see it.

Reference to the Thomas the Tank Engine mod in the Bethesda E3 stream.

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>trainwiz got spotlighted on the Bethesda stream

Oh. Paid mods. Again. Wew.

>>53756300
You knew about all this, didn't you motherfucker?

You knew this was happening, and you'll probably have a mod in the launch lineup too.

How much did Todd pay you to do it? And to keep quiet?

You can't make this shit up

>>53756554
What?

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Bethesda's trying to push paid mods again. Can't say I didn't see that coming even though I was praying they wouldn't dare.

Now they really have absolutely no incentive to finish their fucking games, they can not only have the community do it for them, but they're going to be paid for it too.

This has been really cringeworthy.

>>53756641
He got a cameo in E3, right before paid mods.

Well, that conference sucked.

>>53756779
Yeah, it was pretty disappointing

>>53756779
Why the fuck do the even have a conference? I asked the same shit last year when they had jack shit to show off and this year was even worse.

In fact it was worse than nothing since they announced they were bringing paid mods back from the grave.

>>53756844
>they announced they were bringing paid mods back from the grave.
Seriously. What the fuck are they thinking?

>>53756300
>that screenshot

Thomas Zane?

>>53756647
Here's hoping they get pushed back like last time and that no one has gotten lazy or greedy in the meantime. Time to dust off old /v/ memes from the first time around for the shitposting crusade - if I can find any.

Like wow. I came in with a grain of salt, expecting stuff like no Elder Scrolls 6 and VR that I don't care about, but this was fucking awful.
>Paid mods
>A shitty card game
>Sequals to meh games

At the very least I was hoping to see a glimpse of Starfield which is suppose to be Elder Scrolls in space. This was hardly even worthy of a conference.

>>53750137
It is. It really is.

>>53756647
Seems like its not quite like last time where anyone could try charging for their epic glass recolor. They'll go through a review process to filter out cheats (since they want them all to work with achievements) and it may not even be open to the general public, just the most popular modders.

So its more like a return to the worst of Oblivion DLC.

>>53756944
>Thomas Zane?


No, water guy.
Also thank god more Sotha Sil content. I can rub it in the face of that guy who kept going on about how we've seen all there is to see in the city. I fucking told them it was a big city but nobody ever listens to me about the gears.

God that ESO trailer was awful.
also
>paid mods

So Bretons are supposed to be like Merlin type Celtic/British wizards?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3G5RucTQkHY
10/10 better than entire Bethesda conference. Modders are literally making more than the official company

>>53757168
At least until the cease & desist hammer comes down.

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>>53757186
Anon that's retarded

>>53757154
They're the descendents of Nedes who outbred the Aldmer and are essentially a mix between Brit and Frenchie, with a glorious serving of Crusader Kings on top of it. The more Celtic-y ones are found closer to the border with the Reach, and supposedly once had a prominant order of magic users called the Druids of Galen. As far as I'm aware they're never mentioned ever again after Arena, though I could be wrong

Unlike other Humans, they tend to worship a mixed Pantheon consisting of both Humanand Evlish aspects ofGods, as well as some less common ones such as Yffre, Magnus, Peryite, and Phynaster

>>53757219
Bout to start Skyrim and I can't decide what I want to be. Either Nord warrior or Breton spell caster, no meme elf or thief shit

>>53757186
Nope, since it's mad with original assets. The real fact is it'll never be fully done. It took them seven years to get that far and they want to do the entirety of Tamriel.

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>>53757168
I hope we get Colovian Fur Tower-Hats

>>53757241
At this point they probably will finish it before Bethesda ever shows the next elder scrolls.

>>53757240
Tiber Septim was a Breton, he was born in Alcaireand his original name was Hjalti Early-Beard. Just fyi

Bretons Are pretty good spell-casters, and in fact make good general characters overall thanks to magic resist. Plus there's just about a dozen ways to play one thanks to the massive ammounts of clannishness and sub-roups of them across both High Rock, as well as the Reachmen down in Skyrim.

Reachmen are even more horribly crossbred than the normal Bretons, and tend to worship a wierd mix between the traditional Nordic Pantheon and Daedra Worship. Supposedly they learned magic from the Orsimer as well, and historically have always been itching for a chance to take their homeland for themselves ever since Faolan's contracted campaign against the Alessian Empire.

There's also the whole thing about how Briarhearts may actually be an imperfect sub-gradient of Lorkhan due to their creation ritual, but that's speculation.

>>53757299
Pff, no.

>>53757309
Interesting

What are Nords good at/interesting notes?

>>53757379
>>53757240
I would probably go with Nord just because they have frost resistance and frost magic is annoying as hell. Seriously, I regret making my character in Skyrim a non-Nord just because of frost magic.

>>53757401
Okay so what are there schtick? Norse Anglo Saxon Beowulf barbarians?

>>53757401
Surviving dragonfire and hagraven fire balls as a dunmer is more helpful in my experience
(well there is most often a 50% chance that dragons will actually breathe fire)

>>53757379
Read the PGE

Link to the Imperial Library is up top

>>53757299
I'm convinced ES is pretty much in Warcraft territory. Indefinitely shelved in favor of the MMO, spinoffs, and Fallout.

>>53757401
Aren't potions to resist elemental effects pretty easy to get? I always end up lugging around hundreds of potions.

>>53757413
Pretty much, in broad strokes. Honor-minded people with a long history and a preference for melee combat, feel strongly about family and clan honor. Most are pretty faithful Talos worshipers, whether openly or in secret, but they can also be xenophobic.

>>53757379
Smithing, combat, etc. Frost resistance is mostly good for dealing with Cryomancers spamming their slowing spells. For a pure Combat character its good enough, and its probably easier to roleplay a Nord in his homeland.

Traditionally, they used to be good at Enchanting and the manipulation of the elements and other magical feats, as well as the Thu'um and the binding of Wind Spirits. However, for some reason Jhunval, the Nordic aspect of Julianos, ended up falling out of favor with the Nords, so they as a people lost their connection to logical thought and mysticism, and started to become more superstitious and lost much of their history and advancement of a people. Combine with Jurgen Windcaller abolishing te practice of the Tongue, and Nords have been gradually degenerating into brutish sadows of what they once were, barely hanging on through the Skaldic practice of the Poetic Edda.

As a people and a Culture, being a Nord is all about Invading and Conquering. Their entire history is obsessed with conquering an showing dominance over their neighbors, though they themselves will buck easily under anyone's rule, and as such have a unruly streak.

Traditionally, the Nordic Pantheon associated the Divines with Animal Totems, and Anamism/Totemism is prevalent intheir culture, such as how it was popular for them to create trophies from the bodyparts of slain foes (Tongues were popular back when they still had Thu'um). They also place Shor (Lorkhan) as their chief deity instead of Akatosh, who lost prominence when Alduin attempted to surp his position of worship and encouraged the Dragon Cult to go full Thulsa Doom and believe that the purpose of Life is to become the baddest mofo around before dieing and being able to party forever in Sovngarde.

Also, Nords really love killing anone that isn't a Nord. They were well known for constantly trying to invade and war with the Chimer/Dunmer and Dwemer over and over again, as well as slaughtering off the Falmer

>>53757490
Seems like there are a lot of soldier-y warrior focused races: Orcs, Imperials, Redguard

Where do Nords fit in? What's their combat specialty? Like Conan the Barbarian?

>>53756215
>putting your waifu's soul into a robot
if only ;__;

>>53756686
One of the paid mods was a power armour for fo4 called "horse armour," I died laughing.

>>53756647
This time it's a subscription service that will probably be like workshop but even worse that nobody in their right mind's gonna use because you can just use the nexus. Consolefags may have the rug swept out from under their feet right after they were finally given mods, though.

>>53756779
>>53756787
I enjoyed it but I went in expecting a shitshow. Quake looks like they are doing it as right as doom, except for that killcam shot where it panned into third person... Wolfenstein I don't really care about.

>>53757240
Warriors are almost universally boring, including in TES. Spellcasting in TES opens the door for all the most fun roleplay shit and leaves your options open for the less legitimate quests and questlines. Plus Bretons are godtier.

>>53757309
>his original name was Hjalti Early-Beard
Because his father was most likely a nord. His whole life was like this big Oedipus complex thing (people forget that half of the Oedipus complex is wanting to usurp your father, not just fuck your mother), he was trying to be the big nord guy like daddy and shout down walls and unite skyrim but he was just a scrawny breton who was bad at magic and whose beard came in early. But he was smart, and he tried extra hard and made friends with Ysmir Wulfharth and got lucky with having the dragon's blood, and he ended up Emperor of Tamriel.

>There's also the whole thing about how Briarhearts may actually be an imperfect sub-gradient of Lorkhan due to their creation ritual, but that's speculation.
To be fair, it's in-context speculation by a Telvanni magelord who is hundreds of years old and has several semi-successful experiments supporting this hypothesis.

>>53757527
It's changed a little over the years, and it's a bit looser for Skyrim, but generally: Nords are more resistant to magical effects and in Skyrim are best with two-handed weapons and light armor (so a lot like Conan, yeah), Orcs are best with heavy armor and are the best at physical defense, while Redguards are the best all-rounders, being good on the offensive or the defense, and not being too restricted to any armor or weapon type, and in Skyrim also get some magical skill. Imperials are a bit better at Speechcraft-related skills and make a more viable spellsword than a straight-up warrior.

>>53757527
>Where do Nords fit in? What's their combat specialty? Like Conan the Barbarian?
Yeah, basically. Light armor heavy weapon Blitzkriegs and Skirmishes. Also historically they were skilled at Siege Warfare because they would use the Thu'um to tear down fortress walls and throw settlements into the air and sea. The latter was actually Whulfarth's preferred method of warfare.

I recommend reading Sermon 9 of the 36 Lessons of Vivec, A Dream of Sovngarde, and the Songs of Whulfarth.

After reading the Songs of Whulfarth, I then recommend reading the Arcturian Heresy, followed by both volumes of "A Brief History of the Empire". Actually, that last one has both books sitting in the Torture Chamber in Helgen Keep, so go ahead and read those first.

As for the other races: ORcs are skilled at disciplined and nearly tireless Heavily Armored Infantry and Shocktrooper. Redguards are all about swords, and can sword so hard they can make sword-nukes. Pretty decent at Calvary and spme skirmish warfare. And Sword. And being Pirates. And Sword. Imperials are skilled at having good resources, logistics, disciplined infantry, pretty good Calvary, andjust being good soldiers overall.

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>>53757610
I've never played a straight wizard in TES - I always go some level of sorcerer, spellsword or battlemage. Even when I've tried being a thief, I include some spells (detect life alone is very useful), but going just wizard is a much more patient activity than I can handle.

>>53757527
Personally I find Imperials to be a cross between a traditional fighter and a spell caster. Their starting bonus in one-handed and restoration is really useful for a spellsword build.

>>53757682
So like a paladin?

>>53757610
>made friends with Ysmir Wulfharth
Until he told Ysmir to fuck off because he didn't want to genocide the Dunmer, and then Mantella'd him to power Numidium.

Actually, Most of the Unification was filled with Ysmir wanting to go full hog-wild shouting things apart, and Hjalti telling him no and doing something smarter instead. In fact, I highly doubt if Hjalti ever actually sed the Thu'um even once in his life outside of High Hrothgar. Especially considering how shit and unsupervised of a scan the "Shouting College" in Markarth was.

Restart the Shouting College mod when?

>>53757669
Yeah, I somehow always end up a wizard crossed with a warrior or thief in some capacity. I find the more wizard I am the more fun I have though.

I hope if TES6 is ever a fucking thing they carry over FO4's charisma options so a bard becomes more viable and fun to play, I've enjoyed bards a lot especially in modded Oblivion and I loved playing high CHA characters in New Vegas (which was just designed better overall, not being a Bethesda game) and FO4 (where they added the ability to subdue enemies based on charisma, which really shines when you go up against groups and can break the morale of like 3/4 of them and make them wipe out their comrades before methodically executing them).

>>53757669
Personally, I've always had a shield for my mages at early level. Plus I also always enjoyed Staves of Skyrim mod back when I still played.

That was when I wasn't playing a STEALTH ARCHER!

So why would anyone worship Sheogorath?

Also, why do people like him in real-life?

>>53757772
Because their either Mad, or want shortcuts to power and such without minding the SAN Loss and somehow decided to not pick up Clavicus or Herma.

Also, out of all the Daedra, Sheo is the most lkely to dick around and mess with random mortals rather than waiting for mortals to come to him. The other Daedra are okay with this because its better to encourage lulrandom Sheo than to have to deal with being invaded by Jyggylag.

But then you free him, so Anu knows what he's even doing right now

>>53757772
>>53757804
Also, SheoCoC so far seems to be much more "benevolent"-ish than old Sheo, so who even knows whats going on there as well

>>53757610
>and got lucky with having the dragon's blood
He stole it from Cuhlecain using eating techniques of Akaviri taught to him by Zurin.

>>53756133
What mod is this?

>>53758091
Morrowland. Don't play it.

>>53750866
the memories of the argonians arent beeing reincarnated beause the Hist harvest them.

The entire reason for the argonians to exist and venture forth from the marsh is to collect memories to add to the Hists Amaranth.

They dont put them into argonians willy nilly because they require argonians to make new expiriences.

>>53758236
Where was that said? But anyway, while you say they don't do it for one reason or another, you imply that it is certainly possible, right?

>>53758280
Its a conjecture from a lot of sources.
it starts with Dreekius in Redguard who clearly states that the Argonians are only going outside of Blackmarsh to learn about the rest of the world.

The Hist Amaranth afaik was once hinted by MK as a big "no no anti amaranth"

Another part is that Water equals memory in TES and all water flows down to Blackmarsh.

Then there is the Histsleeve as in the reincarnation of Argonians by the hist.

then came the Lord of Souls and we have the Hist showing the protagonist, Glim, all sorts of visions from the past aswell as transplanting his memory/soul/whatever into a newly grown body (so to your question, yes, it is possible, i just dont think theyd do it a lot)

And then comes ESO which is realy big about Hist Sap = Pure memory
the Argonian quests tend all to be about reclaiming memory or Hist sap beeing used to remember stuff, or at one point it is used to emulate someone elses body, essentialy making dopllegängers.

Its all about memory with the Hist.

C0da is the last piece of the puzzle were the Hist show up at Vivecs wedding to be remembered into the next dream.
"They sent a Tree! I will not forget that." should be as good a hint as anyhting else.

So yeah, its conjecture, but its conjecture from just about all argonian sources there are.

>>53757726
>Until he told Ysmir to fuck off because he didn't want to genocide the Dunmer, and then Mantella'd him to power Numidium.
Well yeah, but Wulfharth's was one of the great heads he stepped on on his climb to greatness twice

>>53757772
He's the god of creativity and art. Dibella is the god of natural beauty, and to some extent its replication, but that's actually weak and limited, and Sheogorath takes it further with artificial beauty. He's also the god of free will, but most mortals wouldn't know that. And sometimes, when life is hard, sanity feels like a burden. And other times, you just have to go... a little crazy, and then, suddenly, it all makes sense, and everything you do turns to gold.

>>53758660
Honestly life in the Isles isn't too bad anyway, not anymore than the regular parts of Tamriel. New Sheoth is pretty normal. In ESO when you sell out Shalidor's new waifu Sheogorath at least promises that although she's fucking nuts she'll at least live an okay life.
If there's one positive aspect about Sheogorath it's that.

I made the happy surprise of looking at /v/ for Dishonored news, and now they're theorizing that Dishonored takes place in the Elder Scrolls universe.
Outsider dindu nuffin why kill him

>>53758723
dishonored is just shitty thief with shitty magic and its lore is really edgy and blunt, I don't care for it

>>53758732
Good. I wasn't talking to you anyway.

>>53758750
How many dicks does it have

>>53758750
If you were talking to someone in particular you should have used an IM client instead of a public anonymous messageboard.

>>53758929
>implying this isn't an IM client

>>53751355
Knave

>>53755296
>while it's very hard to avoid the instinct of 'grab as much loot as physically possible to carry,'

I never understood or had this problem. You people are like dumb little magpies with zero willpower. It's easy.
I also totally ignore locked chests and doors with characters who wouldn't really know how to pick locks, even though it's pretty easy to unlock master locks without any training in it.

>>53759128
You have to agree that In both oblivion and skyrim it's too easy to take on the challenge lockpicking no matter what level you are. That's what happens when it's not locked behind rng

SHOW YOURSELF TRAINWIZ YOU TREACHEROUS HARLOT. WE KNOW THAT YOU KNEW ABOUT THIS.

Help, I want to be Vivec.

>>53760075
Eat Molag Bal dick

>>53749659
Is morrowind getting payed mods lads
I want to see vivec with huge tits now for just $9.99

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>>53760220
http://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/43898/?

>>53757168
>Skyrim
Dropped
Tamriel rebuilt next stage when?

>>53757309
>Tiber Septim was a breton
Proofs?????

>>53760236
>Tamriel rebuilt
gay
Skyrim 2 when?

>>53760235
Hot, only $29.99 too!

>>53760264
>when?
Stopped reading there

>>53760244
>he doesn't know the truth of the Three-Headed Dragon in the Sermons

>>53760358
Go on then, explain it in an undeniable way with your sources
The heresy isn't even concrete, so go on, prove to me you're undeniably correct

>>53760385
Talos is three people and one was born in High Rock. That's all the "evidence" there is. Only Bretons live in High Rock right?

Talos is Tiber Septim, a nord born in High Rock.
He then got back to his motherland to learn the thu'um.

Trainwiz, do the CreationClub modders get access to internal software and editing so we can have new animations, skill trees, and all that fancy shit we didn't get from the Game Jam in 2012? If so it might salvage the whole situation.
Please Trainboy

>>53760385
Nothing in TES is concrete. There is an unreliable narrator for a reason. It is most likely that Talos is NOT from Atmora because Atmora is not a place you can feasibly live anymore but most common folk don't know that. The next best theory is the Arcturian Heresy.

>>53760478
Exactly, that's all I hear and about muh king and thief which no one ever explains how it makes hjalti a Breton
I mean, I personally believe in the heresy but considering that we don't even know for fact that it is actually correct, saying baseless shit like him being a Breton with no explanation really grinds my gears
I certainly believe his was a Nord what with the shouting and what not, Zurin is definitely an imperial right?

>>53760542
>Zurin is definitely an imperial right?
Yes, that part is certain.

>>53760525
I agree, what I'm arguing is that the idea that Hjalti is a Breton (hjalti specifically since we think he's the main man essentially) is almost entirely baseless, yet I still see it posted
TES lore is great for interpretation though, I'm always discussing it with my buddy

>>53760542
>Zurin
>Imperial

>>53760546
>>53760542
>Zurin not Akaviri

>>53760546
Ah yeah, so what's the most common thoughts on the underking, both Zurin and Wulfharth at different times right? Or am I way off? Can't remember great desu
Or was Wulfharth jus the ash king or something, the greybeards shouted him to dust right?

>>53760565
>>53760567
Source out of interest?
What's he supposed to be though, akaviri is a blanket term

>>53760579
It started getting discussed near the end of the last thread, as part of a series of questions on mantling.

>>53760605
Aight thanks, will see if I can find it, the walking ways I still remember well enough, well mostly

>>53760542
>I certainly believe his was a Nord what with the shouting
Wulfhart did all the shouting and he was a Bosmer to boot.

>>53760756
No retard. Stop spouting this stupid shit >>53498414

>>53760756
Show me some evidence you mongaloid

>>53760779
The Heresy.

>>53760771
I don't how this makes Wulfhart not a Bosmer,at least at one point of time.

Ysmir -> Wolf-Deer -> Wulfhart -> Underking -> Talos

>>53760833
See I've read the heresy a fair few times, how exactly is fucking Wulfharth supposed to be a fucking bosmer?
I believe that substantially less than hjalti being a Breton, and I don't believe that at all

>>53760871
Yeah dude. He might also be a pink elephant who even gives a shit right? I mean, nobody says that he wasn't so my headcanon is all good.

Leave your theories in your rectum.

>>53760882
That was the evidence for Wulfharth doing the shouting, not him being a Bosmer.

The Bosmer theory comes from the fact that Wolf-Deer was a creature that killed king Borgas, who tried to convert Skyrim to Alessian faith, and it was Wulfharth who completely reinstated the original pantheon and purged the Alessians. Also, the whole "wuld=wolf, hart=deer" thing and "...But through Lorkhan he [Wulfharth] lost his national identity". We also know that the guy dies and was reborn multiple times.
It's a flimsy theory, sure, but an entertaining one.

>>53760899
Don't be so mad, anon.

>>53760973
>dude wulfhart was a totally bosmer!
>stop repeating this as a fact you retard
>d-don't be mad it's just a flimsy theory
No anon, you need to fuck off because your retardation and tolerance for this bullshit invites reddit-tier cancer who then start making up their own bullshit wankery and being hostile if you call them out on it. We don't need another Trinimarkay.

>>53761029
Yeah yeah, whaterver you say.
Also, it's Trinidumalarkayxes.

>>53760973
Faith enough, not for me to be honest but it's something, which is marginally better than nothing at any rate
Do you yourself actually believe it?
Also on Hjalti never shouting
"Wulfharth thinks he is the figure of prophecy. He goes directly to High Hrothgar to hear the Greybeards speak. When they do, Ysmir is blasted to ash again. He is not the chosen one. It is a warrior youth from High Rock. As the Grey Wind goes to find this boy, he hears the Greybeards' warning: remember the color of betrayal, King Wulfharth."
If hjalti is dragonborn then I don't doubt he could shout with a little learning, am I remembering wrong or didn't he still speak in whispers and still fuck shit up later in life, though that maybe post oversoul fuckery can't remember

>>53761139
He lost the ability to shout when he slit his own throat

>>53759844
>That's what happens when it's not locked behind rng
Nah, it's what happens when the minigame is for casual babies. ESO's minigame was actually really good from what I remember, it was like Oblivion's but more like a real lock (tumblers were different sizes and you had to line them up), and you had to kind of gently nudge the tumbler up without forcing it but were also on an overall timer, meaning it was actually difficult or impossible to pick things far above your skill level (as far as I could tell) but was still an active player-skill-based as well as character-skill-based minigame. Dunno if I'm remembering every detail of it correctly or if they stuck with that though.

Alternately you have the kind of shitty unimmersive way it's handled in Fallout where you can't even attempt to pick a lock above your skill level.

>>53760385
>>53760542
>KYNE
>I think you should make it. And, as a wife, I would ask you to start with the manmer you called a ‘virus’.
He's also a composite of the three races of man native to Tamriel (redguards aren't). Not really complicated, friendo.
>I certainly believe his was a Nord what with the shouting and what not, Zurin is definitely an imperial right?
Hjalti probably couldn't actually shout anyway. Even then, you don't need to be a Nord to shout, especially as a dragonborn. Are you fucking high

>>53761139
>If hjalti is dragonborn then I don't doubt he could shout with a little learning, am I remembering wrong or didn't he still speak in whispers and still fuck shit up later in life
He didn't have time to train or dragons to munch on. The moment Wulfharth left him a "breton assassin" (((hjalti was a breton assassin))) slit his throat nonfatally, conveniently causing him to lose his voice and be unable to speak above a whisper but not killing him, so he wouldn't have to shout.

And you're confusing him with the Greybeards, who speak in a whisper because even their whispers cause the ground to tremble.

>>53761029
>Trinimarkay
Didn't they amusingly actually call it "trinimalarkey" because malacath was actually involved, and apparently have the fact that "malarkey" was in the name sail over their head?

>>53761665
>and apparently have the fact that "malarkey" was in the name sail over their head
I think this was the idea.

>>53761616
I never said he had to be a Nord dragonborn to shout
Nor did I confuse him with the grey beards, as you just said he spoke in whispers after his neck was slit, but Tiber shouted for sure

Am I the only one who likes the idea of Hjalti being a Breton, Wulfharth being a Nord, and Zurin being an Imperial because of how this makes Talos a god composed of the three major Man races of this kalpa?

>>53762071
I don't agree with it but I don't dislike it, I just question why it is thought that way

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>>53762071
>Breton
>men

>>53762071
I mean, that was the point, presumably. I don't know why anyone even cares that Hjalti is a breton enough to fervently deny it out-of-context, I imagine them being stormfags that conflate nords with the aryan race because they're idiots but they don't actually hint at that so that's a strawman.

>>53762071
"Imperial" is not a race.

>>53762671
"Nibenese" is, and "Colovians" are only culturally distinct from Nords. Even then, not much.

>>53762748
>"Colovians" are only culturally distinct from Nords
Wrong, actually. The "Out Of Atmora" theory is propaganda.

>>53760503
>Tiber Septim, a nord
I want uneducated Nords to leave, and stop culturally appropriating the Cyrodillic Pantheon

>>53750653
>Ar'kay's a busta.

Aww I like him.

Not knowing any backgrounfd lore, what's Arkays deal?

>>53764912
He made his perfect waifu out of memories.

>>53764912
His spirit was the one that was sacrificed during the formation of Mundus to create the concept of Life and Death.

The Aedra are all basically catatonic planets who's spirits where used as the coding for the different aspects of reality
Aka was Time, Dibella was Passion and Emotion, Kyne was Life, Growth, and Winds, Julianos was Logic and Knowledge, Stendarr was Justice and Mercy (which to Nords translates to capturing prisoners and taking Ransom), Zenithar is Peace and Communication, and Mara was Love, Compassion, and Commitment.

Basically, the Imperial Cult worships the being who were sacrificed to create the concepts of the mortal world and life, hence why they (alond with a few other Aedra like Yffre) are referred to also as the "Earth Bones", since they make up the backbone of reality

>>53750653
It's a stylized bird, not a vagina.

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Tel me, what would a day in the life of Peryite be like?

>>53765198
I don't get it. Who's moot?

>Love the lore
>Hate the games
Why must this be

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>>53765227
>Who's moot?

>>53765227
how new?

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>>53765227
>Press F to pay respect

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>>53765227

I'm...

I'm old.

>>53765227
Fuck, too real

And this is how it ends the thread...

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Holy fuck Bethesda E3 was fucking NOTHING!
What makes them think announcing Skyrim on Switch would be big news when they already did that last year!?

>>53764977
>>53765061
I see why he's my favorite.

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>>53765739
Be sure to smash the local necromancer's head in.

>>53764912
He's got a few things going on.

He's most likely one of the gods that has been mantled this kalpa, because there's a fairly widespread story about a man who studied an obscure tome detailing the nature of life and death. He devoted his life to this, shutting out all other passions, and was nearly finished when he was seized by a terrible illness. In desperation, the dying man prayed to Mara for more time to finish his work (especially in earlier games, Mara was represented as the Divine most inclined to provide deliverance, or at least the one most mortals turned to). She could not simply extend his life, but gave him a choice- He could accept his death, and his spirit could pass on, or he could be granted a place as an immortal Divine, but would have to accept the burden of being the arbitrator of birth and death, keeping natural order and balance but agonising over whether his decisions were correct (eg whether it was right to allow a man who would become a monster to be born, or to allow a good man to die young because it was his time).

However, it is also possible this was in fact the original Ark'ay- According to Varieties of Faith in the Empire,
>It is said that Arkay did not exist before the world was created by the gods under Lorkhan's supervision/urging/trickery. Therefore, he is sometimes called the Mortals' God.
This is contradicted in the Monomyth, where he is the Divine listed offhand among the most powerful et'Ada who first crystallised. The point of that passage was that the more prominent et'Ada, Aedra, Daedra, Earth-bones and Magna-Ge, crystallised first, not that Arkay specifically did.

Similarly from Varieties of Faith, in places where Akatosh's role is seen as weaker or more abstract (probably owing to the fact that he is the god of time, not causality, as in the actual medium events occur in which is confusing to most mortals) Ark'ay is seen as taking some of the aspects normally associated with Akatosh.

>>53766108
>>53764912
He is sometimes conflated (by fans) with the elven demigod Xarxes, who is a scribe that keeps record of all Aldmeri achievements and history. He made his wife, Oghma, out of his favourite moments, and penned the Oghma Infinium in her name in the service of Hermaeus Mora, with information granted to him by the same. While I don't think there is substantial evidence for this, the theory fits reasonably well- We know of Arkay's obsession with books, if nothing else. The idea of him being a time deity in some capacity also supports this. Still, I think the correlation is rather weak. As far as I know, this theory either originated in ESO or was part of a much larger and less credible fan theory connecting like half the deities in the setting and ESO paid homage to it (see earlier mentions of trinidumalarkaytoshalisticexpialidocious ITT).

He actually probably is Tu'whacca, a Redguard trickster deity who takes care of the Far Shores, their corner of the Dreamsleeve (afterlife), where they hid Yokuda between kalpas- Possibly with Tu'whacca's help. Of course, Tu'whacca was from a previous kalpa and it is suggested Arkay "came from" this one- Perhaps every kalpa has some mortal that becomes the god of mortality, which would be fitting, but that's getting off into conjecture.

An interesting note is that while he is identified as a death god and more heavily associated with funerals, he is also the god of births. That's a bit reminiscent of the Death trump in Tarot which represents changes and boundaries rather than strict endings, and it also bears some resemblance to the sphere of Azura (and now I'm wondering why the chucklefucks peddling the trinimalarkay shit didn't try slipping Azura in there... or maybe they did, I stopped paying attention to that pretty fast).

>>53766129
>>53764912
He is an enemy to necromancers, though the spirits of the dead are within his domain. You can see in this a correlation to the Dunmer philosophy regarding necromancy- It's not necromancy if the ghost comes back willingly, only if it is bound unwillingly to the will of a mage. The consecration of corpses in Arkay's name is enough to make them safe against necromancy at a basic level, but the King of Worms states that there are ways around this. Arkay blackened the souls of sapient beings to prevent them being captured in soul gems and bound to enchanted items or destroyed, but the King of Worms also found a way to blacken his followers' soul gems (more on what that way is in a moment) to accomodate these new black souls. In general, Mannimarco made it his mission to thwart Arkay, and while I can't find the text atm, in one book I recall him noting that it was appropriate that his greatest enemy was a mortal who became a god, as Mannimarco intended to do the same himself.

Mannimarco intended to usurp Arkay as the god of life and death. He accomplished this, technically, at one point in untime- During the Warp in the West, he used Numidium to grant himself godhood, took the place of Arkay in the heavens. However, when repairing the timeline, the Jills demoted him and restored Arkay. However, he remained a large moon of Arkay, and as part of the weird time paradox bullshit that came out of the Warp, was separated into at least two entities- The Arkay who is killed in Oblivion's mages guild questline, and Arkay the god, the planetary body that orbits Arkay. About once a week (every eighth night), Arkay is eclipsed by Mannimarco, called the Necromancer's Moon, and this is a time when Arkay's laws are weak and black souls gems can be produced.

I was the one who called him a busta btw and I stand by that. Owned by mannimarco, owned at videogames, owned at death.

>>53766152
>The Arkay who is killed in Oblivion's mages guild questline, and Arkay the god
er, the MANNIMARCO who is killed in Oblivion's mages guild questline and MANNIMARCO the god.

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>>53766152
>I can't find the text atm
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Arkay_the_Enemy

>>53766108
>>53766129
>>53766152
Damn, thanks for the info dump.

Now I'm fairly new at ES lore and this whole existing as an aspect of reality thing but could having died have something to do with experiencing his own aspect or am completely off the mark with that idea?

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>>53766096
>nonstandard patrician 8:5 aspect ratio
>pointlessly increase the ratio using letterboxing, functionally wasting that extra vertical resolution so it only constitutes a performance hit
Did you know the average paladin's IQ is 60? Interesting!

>>53766285
Having been mortal likely has significance. All of the Aedra "died," insofar as their kind can die without being simply erased from reality. At least some of the gods were also mortal at some point, because mortals can become gods by taking their place in a process called mantling. However, it might simply happen that in the case of Arkay this is a much more important detail.

>>53759844
Oblivion's lockpicking was a lot more challenging than Skyrim's though. Skyrim you only had to find one point to open up the lock, and all it took was a little practice to know exactly how to do it - I'd be lucky to ever break a lockpick.

Meanwhile in Oblivion, I have to push up five tumblers, and even with knowing what I'm supposed to do (wait til the tumbler is moving slowly and 'sticks' at the top), half the time it's still almost random if I ever manage it at all.

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>>53766306
I can hear you rattling from way over here.

>>53766373
His own birth and rebirth as a divine leading to a death, which is the birth of another, then a second rebirth while the new divine "dies" and becomes a smaller cycle within his sphere. It's just a series of births and deaths that lead to the whole of his current existence.

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>>53765227
It doesn't hurt as bad as I thought it would. But it still hurts.

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Ending! Words! ALMSIVI!

>Hircine walks into a bar and slaps you on the ass. He wants you to be his hunting dog for his redneck weekend hunting trip with Sanguine, Clavicus Vile (who has his own hunting dog) and Malacath. There will be a lot of drinking involved. Wat Do?

>>53767688
>inviting Malacath

>>53767717
He probably heard about it and invited himself. You know he's one of those kinds of people.

>>53767688
>malacath's gonna be there
ugh, refuse. That guy's terrible at parties.

>>53767788
>Big Daedra Christmas party
>You know they celebrate Christmas right? Anyways
>Malacath gets fucked up on eggnog and starts crying about how he used to be Trinimac and how Boethia won't return his calls anymore and how much his orcs suck
>He's just like really going on to the point even Sheogorath is embarrassed and is making up excuses to leave early
>Sanguine side mentions to Molag Bal that he didn't even spike the eggnog yet
>Meridia calls Malacath a fucking pussy faggot and to get over it
>Everyone leaves
Another ruined Christmas party thanks to Malacath.

>>53766187
So how can Mannimarco both be a living mortal and a god, but the Underking was definitively killed, when in several options he didn't get his heart back?

>>53768071
A dragonbreak happened.

>>53767975
You'd think he'd have a little more backbone, what with the backbone of his realm being a literal backbone.

>>53768071
Jills cannot unmake a god,but they can definitely kill all underkings that survived

>>53768206
Jills are such a retarded and unnecessary fucking concept.

>>53768071
>when in several options he didn't get his heart back?
Those versions were destroyed stopping the Numidiums, presumably. At one point Wulfharth was destroyed for a long time after blasting Tiber's Numidium apart to stop the end of the world, but at that time he was still dust so in time he was able to reform.

Alternately, Mannimarco's dual existence might not be due to time paradoxes but rather because that's just how it works- Tiber remained on Nirn but Talos became a planet as well. Or the Mannimarco you kill could be an impostor (which is honestly likely, he's supposed to be a decayed lich).

>>53768232
>Kynareth, Mara and Dibella are such a retarded and unnecessary concept
Watch your mouth, kiddo.