/WMG/ Warmachine and Hordes General

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Here's the models week 1

Looks like "Unit X with slightly different stats and Y keyword" as a concept is here to stay based on Pagani's posts.

What is the best way, aside from not buying their shit, to let them know that this is not an ok business practice? I'm already boycotting their shit.

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Doggovich vs Amerimutt, who would win?

>>53694060
tell them on their numerous social media appearances? It's not like Will Pastrami is a regular in this shitpit.

>>53694060
Stop playing the game?
Or were you already doing that too

>>53694147
the wardog will probably be a tougher cookie

>>53694060
Ignore.

Let the game die in peace

>>53694060
>Unit X with slightly different stats and Y keyword"

Its already existed before (Winter Guard Rifle Core Vs Infantry. The only difference is the gun). It only really takes slightly different stats to create a different niche.

Just ask for a better niche for the original gunners. That way both will have a niche instead of moping about feeling like your being Jypped.

>>53694454
Do you literally have nothing better to do?

You actually WANT the game to die because you don't like it? Not change?

I disliked the game in MKII, I packed up my stuff and waited until MKIII. Now I like MKIII.

Get over yourself.

>>53694705
>corps
>gypped

>>53694060

Buy Malifaux.

I've long said they were almost to the end of their creative space. Now it seems like the only ideas they have is new models, same rules but make it a theme.

Pretty soon every faction will be like each other with the same unit entry having 3 different models to buy depending on what color (Or sub color) your faction is.

Moving on to other games now, fuck this cash grab.

>>53695322
Nah man, I'm not gonna buy Malifaux. I'd rather move to Infinity and X wing (something I've been doing for a few months since PP has been shitting) since they are affordable and well made.

>>53694738
>I disliked the game in MKII, I packed up my stuff and waited until MKIII. Now I like MKIII.

Oh bullshit :) But whatever it takes to make you feel like you're winning an argument online bro. Cya tomorrow.

>>53695341

Not that guy but that's what I did (Infinity). I haven't looked back much, although I still wish PP would dump premeasure and pull their shit together.

>just like start a new game dude
There aren't really games at this scale which is my issue (Larger than skirmish, but smaller than 40k)

>>53695322
>Moving on to other games now, fuck this cash grab.
And yet you still post in every thread...

>>53695624
Nah anon I haven't.

Maybe there is more than one person pissed at privateer, you think?

>>53695685
>"No I didn't post"
>53695685

>>53695685
Maybe yes maybe no.
Still heed the advice to move to the infinity/malifaux/40k thread.
You have no purpose here

>>53695774
>OhNoItsRetarded.jpg

:(

>>53695568
Is there even a game at the same scale of Warmahordes? Everything else seems to be skirmish, Warhammer, or epic scale.

>>53696097
>Warmahordes
>not skirmish

>>53696160
It's not
It tends to have a higher model count then most skirmish games

>>53696204
This is Amon and Harkevich's game now, anon.

>>53696262
laughing_ghost_fleets.jpg

>>53696262
Sure. It was about 4 months ago.

>>53696262
Menoth can't win tourneys, because Amon is their only good list.

https://conflictchamber.com/#c1201bid9G9G9G9Iakazg89uie6i9R9S

Cygnar Army - 75 / 75 points

!!! Your army contains CID entries.

(Brisbane 2) Colonel Markus "Siege" Brisbane (CID) [+28]
- Ironclad [12]
- Ironclad [12]
- Ironclad [12]
- Ol' Rowdy [18]
- Squire [5]
Archduke Alain Runewood, Lord of Fharin [4]
Major Harrison Gibbs [4]
Ragman [4]
Trench Buster (CID) [5]
Alexia Ciannor & the Risen [10]
Sword Knights (max) [13]
- Sword Knight Officer & Standard [4]

Thoughts?

>>53698595
I'm not sure what you want to do with this list

Wanting to sell all of my unpainted unassembled stuff and no one wants it. GW is eating PP's lunch.

>>53698668
What sort of unpainted anassembled stuff?

>>53695352
>Oh bullshit
Oh shit, It's Cybergod, King of Reading Minds!

>>53698595
why would you spam jacks with an infantry caster? he literally does nothing for all those jacks.

>>53698686
Menoth Khador and Legion

Are any of the different flavors of Warcaster career in IKRPG significantly better than the others?

Also, what is your opinion on the GM artificially blocking players from getting a heavy 'jack before a certain point in the story?

>>53694147
War Dog has spikes. Spikes is better than not spikes. War Dog clearly superior.

Not really. They are all just specialized to the existing factions so it depends on the theme of your story.

Restricting players from getting a heavy until you say so is perfectly fine. Heavies should be later game items. The exception might be Khador.

>>53698948
Thanks. Another thing about IKRPG, what is the best horsey class, Highwayman, Horseman, or Knight? Are horsey classes good to combo with Warcaster?

>>53699698
I don't remember exactly. There were a couple of specialist mounted classes like Trollkin Longrider that they released. I think it was Horseman combo with something that did the most damage. I wouldn't make a mounted warcaster personally.

>>53699698
a horsey character sounds like a poor choice when most rpg action happens in place where a horse doesn't really work. dungeons slums, cities, forests, swamps etc.

>tfw a troll eats your horse ally of 10 years

If I'm runnning a mostly infantry list, do I need to have choir as Menoth? Especially when I'm only taking two lights and a heavy to round out battlegroup points?

>>53700204
Can you give more details?

>>53696097
Bolt action

>>53694738
Mkiii is bad from the source. Honestly if they can survive next 6 years I would be mighty impressed

>>53700451

https://conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0E1l1U1r1L3D3p2m2m2m2jfV2jfV

Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Exemplar Interdiction

(Vindictus 1) Vice Scrutator Vindictus [+29]
- Crusader [10]
- Devout [9]
- Vigilant [9]
High Exemplar Gravus [9]
Knights Exemplar Seneschal [0(5)]
Exemplar Errants (max) [16]
Exemplar Errants (max) [16]
Exemplar Errants (max) [16]
Knights Exemplar [9]
- Knights Exemplar Officer [0(5)]
Knights Exemplar [9]
- Knights Exemplar Officer [0(5)]

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>>53700535
>stock bloody everywhere
>has a highly invested grognard base
>"lol game is shit it's gonna die in no time by which I mean years from now"
Now where have I heard that one before

>>53694705
But its not the same.

WGI and WGRC are different. One is close range combat and one is long range.

Trencher Long Gunners are just better versions of Long Gunners.

>>53700631
GW has other games to fall back on and their IPs are worth something.

>>53700631

GW has been aggressively back peddling to save it's sales after several failed editions and abandoning all their IPs. It stopped going down the road to failure some time ago.

>>53698844
That's common. I've also heard of some GMs just banning warcasters in general. They sort of fuck up a lot of the game. that's been my experience in my 6 month+ ikrpg.

>>53700895
>pedaling

>>53700631
the decline in active players, at least in my community, has been staggering

>>53700895

They definitely turned shit around.

PP is GW now
GW is PP now

It's the UpsideDown

>>53701547
>>53700895
I've been of the opinion that PP done goofed and it was partly by not paying attention to any competition. They rushed out a new edition, snails pace with command books and the theme books they were talking about more than a year ago. Meanwhile GW, who they'd written off as dead and never going to be competition again, managed to turn themselves around and release month after month things that people had been asking for for years.

For me the biggest sign that GW have become competition in the market again, was the Infinity guys rushing to launch a global campaign and and huge sale all throughout the 8e 40k release month.

I think PP is started to turn things around, they've had to backpedal on a few things already, are leaning more and more to free cards and shit for the future and regular patching of stuff. They've been reaching out to the community, embracing streams, sending out free product to the big youtubers that used to talk about Warmachine but stopped playing, even teaming up with pop culture folks to come play their game. It's a start.

From a potential newbie's position, is this game worth getting into at present?

I hear such mixed things

>>53702009
Yes. The game is fun and engaging. Feel free to hop on board.

Before you do, check your local scene. Call around to local game stores, or check facebook to find out when and where people meet up. Go meet with the people you'll be playing with before investing. If they seem like good people, all's well. If you don't like them, you wont enjoy playing against them.

Take any advice about what models to get or what not to get with a grain of salt.

>>53700821
>GW has other games to fall back on and their IPs are worth something.
GW spent most of the last decade and a half firing a steady stream of torpedoes into ALL of their own flagship products (and firing the smaller boats at the same time). They're still going strong. Once you hit a certain mass, it doesn't seem to matter much if the rules you put out are bad or if you treat your player base like garbage.

>>53702009
I'm just getting into things myself, and I reckon yes. I love the models, I enjoy the gameplay and it's one of my favourite settings. I probably wouldn't have gotten anything if a friend hadn't started too, so my advice is to see if any of your friends would like to try it, or used to play and would pick up a battlebox with you and play a bit.

>>53700895
>GW has been aggressively back peddling to save it's sales after several failed editions
>>53701851
>Meanwhile GW, who they'd written off as dead and never going to be competition again
If you look at the sales numbers, all this stuff never actually happened. PP came up on GW's heels, sorta, but they never overtook the big guys. GW, by turn, has gone over some hills and valleys, but they've never had a "failed edition" of a flagship game. They keep shoveling shit, and people keep buying it.

>>53693861
Wrong link op
http://textuploader <dot> com / d0thm

>>53702009
If you've got a local community, sure.

Just don't expect to get any decent conversation about it here, though.

>>53696160
>Warmahordes
>not skirmish
I mean, sure, technically every 28mm game is a "skirmish", including 40K... even in "apocalypse" games, the sides barely reach company-size.

But usually this term in tabletop refers to 10 +/- models per side games like Malifaux and Infinity. And yeah, warmachine occupies kindof a weird niche for model count at this scale. The skirmish games feel about ideal for the scale, 40K is awkwardly large, and WMH is somewhere in the between.

>There's actual people who unironically recommend Malifaux as a better game
>LaughingHaleys.png

>>53700492
Konflikt 47 for robots and Nazi zombies with Bolt Action rukes

>>53698620
>>53698757
Mostly playing the list as a distraction from Siege2 who will attempt to be more personally active or draw an assassination run. Feat can be used to extend assassination threat/melee threat in general or peel off a bit if needed. Fury will be the main stay here. Though Unstoppable Force can open lanes.

>>53700982

I think a lot of it is that they pidgeonholed a lot of stuff off as 'Warcasters get this from the start and don't pay for it'.

Like a Gunmage? Needs to take 'Boost attack' and 'Boost damage' as spells. The entire point of the gunmage is shooting things.

Warcasters? You give them a bonded pistol and they can boost attack, damage AND buy extra attacks (Something the gunmage can't do). A mechanika weapon to put a bond rune onto is also a lot less rare than magesteel.

I personally think that most characters should have had access to boosting attack/damage/buying attacks. Warcasters get a heap of extra stuff on the TT because they are the most detailed, main character. That doesn't mean that other people are not awesome.

>>53702654

Only one way this can be sorted out.

3 per side Haleys vs Viktorias volleyball.

>>53703936
Ah ha! I choose Harley3 for all three of our Harleys!

>>53693861
Hey, about to be a new player here.

I'm going to start with Menoth. My friend is starting as Grimkin. I wondered if the starter army boxes are well-balanced against each other? Also, will Grimkin have a 60 dollar starter-box near release like the other armies have? My pal is a little skeptical of the game (he's a pretty casual player) and I know he would be more comfortable spending less to start out.

If the Menoth starter army box ($150) is a much better value, I may just go with that, anyway. But I'm not sure how good it is.

>>53706268
There will be a Grymkin starter box, which will ironically be lead by a defected Menite priest. It's not a typical starter box though and will be more expensive while including more models.

>>53706543
I see. Well, that's good. He'll definitely feel better about getting more models.

>>53702219

>but muh numbers

Can you honestly argue GW hasn't had a radical shift in the product and content they have been delivering in the last few years as opposed to where it was in 2010?

Search your heart anon, you know it to be true. Stop putting all your faith in "numbers" put out by a company who is only trying to keep its investors on board.

>>53706268
Is your friend sure? He's buying into a faction that very well may never get another new release ever again

>>53706678
How much does GW pay you fucking shills?

So I'm tryin to make a Cryx list with nothing but Bane Warriors and skeleton pirates.

My Warcasters are going to be Asphyixious the Hellbringer and Denegrah Soulweaver (alternating between the two)

How fucked am I?

>>53706678
They already "delivered" a pile of oversized, disproportionate, and immersion-breaking giganto centerpiece models that are going to be around for the long haul, so I don't really give a shit about the endless stream of hyped sub factions or the fresh coat of paint over a weak game system.
Also they were shoveling out garbage all the way into 2015, don't act like they've been "turning things around" for that long.

>>53706682
He really likes the units, is the thing. He's not really into the other factions. I think that may change over time but, he's also casual enough that the idea of a smaller model pool is appealing to him.

>>53706765
I mean if he's sure and likes it I guess. But this is a limited faction like CoC and they have seen a release since they got brought out in like 2013

>>53706833
Are they actually? I've not heard them described as a limited release like CoC, instead being described as a full faction more akin to Retribution that will just take some time to get up to speed

>>53706924

I'd check their official press release. A buddy of mine who follows Warmachine was also telling me they were going to be a limited release.

>>53706701
Not at all. You're probably better off making a Bane list and a Skeleton Pirate list. Theme forces are too good to pass up.

>>53706965

I never thought about theme forces!

Will I be able to take Pistol Wraith as the free solo w/ the Dark Host Theme? I'm not too sure how they work.

http://battlecollege.org/index.php/Theme_-_Dark_Host

>>53706924
Grymkin is a limited Faction in the same boat as CoC and Cephalyx. They are not guaranteed new releases. Retribution became a Prime Faction in the roll over to MK3 so they are guranteed releases

>>53707091

Grymkin do feel a fair bit like they could have been a Circle release. They overlap rather heavily in theme.

>>53707065
I think not. But you can take him for free in the Undead Pirates (Ghost Fleet) theme force.

>>53707128

Awesome, thanks for clearing that up!

The living shall know the terror of Skeleton Ghosts/Pirates!

>>53707091
Thanks for the clarification, I'm pretty new so I can only go on what I read more than years of experience :)
>>53707110
I've been thinking of them more like a minion faction, able to slot in alongside some of the others but not numerous enough to be their own full faction

Reminder that Skorne has the least solos, UAs, and weapon crews out of any major faction, and the solos and UAs we have don't do anything remotely interesting.

>>53707219
>Skorne
>major faction
smugAnimeGirl.png

>>53707110
Only by way of corpse collection, and even then not much in Grymkin actually uses corpses. Their theme is more tied up in the Arcana mechanic.

>>53707274

I meant more in the 'Spooky gothic horror forest stuff' theme. Scarecrows, cultists and reapers fit in fine with werewolves, druids and an old pagan sacrifice god.

That and both of them are ancient heretics against Menoth's will.

>>53707303
>scarecrows, cultists, reapers
>big dogs, hermits and goats

this is a pretty desperate connection, senpai

Too many factions and too many options actually make a game less about strategy and more about lucking out and picking the right thing. Warmachine is already in a pretty bad place for this, but it feels like things are going to get so much worse.

>>53707321

Not really. They are all part of the same 'Satanists in the woods' general theme that is heavy in gothic horror. Human sacrifice, trafficing with dark pagan gods and blood for the fields.

>>53707326
Yep.

But that's how it goes. They need to make more money, so they make more things, so theres now more options, and skill keeps becoming less of a factor and it becomes more and more a matter of rock-paper-scissors.

>>53694147
>capitalist pig dog advances to bark at my kayazi
>comrade dog countercharge and kill it
Life is good in Motherland.

>>53701547
GW gameplay rules are still boring roll all the dice all the time mess.

>>53708903
But they did playtesting this time so all is forgotten. No seriously, GW makes beer and bretzels games and that's fine. There's a market for that.

>>53708878
Underrated post.

>>53709041
>literally impossible to rate posts

>>53709542
>being this new

>>53706727

I don't know, those added more immersion for me personally.

>>53708957
PP rules suck. GW rules suck more. Not too hard to understand.

>>53711803
I'm curious, what do you think has good rules and why?

>>53711803
PP rules don't really suck though. I know it's fashionable to spew shit after MkIII had a troubled release, but there's nothing really wrong with the rules of the game.

Infinity, Dropfleet/zone and Warmahordes are the top tier of wargames when it comes to rulesets.

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So how long until Cryx gets a Battle Engine that's just a giant Orgoth artifact like that tacky Christmas ornament that follows the Witch Coven around?

>>53712648
>implying it won't be Khador's next battle engine

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Ok, so here's a question that might sound stupid, but is a minor concern for me. I just started collecting Warmachine, and will be playing soon, and the first piece I got was an Ironclad. A Mk2 one, specifically. The second was a Mk3 Stormclad. Now, I look at these two, and the Stormclad is noticably larger, and yet I know it's based on the Ironclad sculpt, yes? So here's my question: I'm getting the Battlegroup for Cygnar, and it comes with an Ironclad. Is that Ironclad going to be noticably different from the one I already have? Will it be bigger?

Pic related, the Ironclad I already got. Yes, I know the colors are absolutely not Cygnar, and yes I know I'm terrible in general. Just thought I'd share anyway.

>>53713038
Actual model size doesn'the matter only the size of the base.

>>53713079
I'm aware, don't worry on that. Rules wise, it makes jack all difference. I'm just curious because I'd prefer them to look the same and be the same size and all that.

>>53713038
Is it metal or plastic?
Metal:old
Plastic:new

>>53713225
Plastic. I call it Mk2 because the box only had rules cards for the Mk2 version. I wasn't sure if the model got updated since Mk3 dropped.

>>53713038
No one gives a shit about the paintjob, don't buy into that concept.

>>53713038
the "new" plastic Ironclad is the same size as the mk2 battlebox one. same molds even, I'd wager. The Stormclad is actual a different chassis, and not fulffwise based on the ironclad, so the Stormclad/Reliant are a bit bigger. The Centurion/Hammersmith/Avenger/Brickhouse are another cygnar chassis are are even bigger, basically Khador jacks with a bit of blue paint on them.

>>53713251
The warjacks of renown (like the Stormclad) got an update in late Mk2. So they look a little more badass than their chassis-similar jacks (like the Ironclad). The old metal Mk1 jacks were even smaller.

>>53713448
>>53713399
Wicked, thanks guys. I got a thing about cohesion in my army, especially since I'm moving from Warhammer to Warmachine. Smaller number of models, so all those little differences stand out even more.

>>53713470
Why would you move from 40K to WM anon? Everyone knows WM is fucked and ded gaem.

>>53713911
Because if the choice is playing 40k or Warmahordes and you don't pick the latter, you are stuck playing 40k.

And no one wants to be stuck playing 40k.

>>53713470
Yea, the chassis are different, and that does matter.

An easy way to tell if the jacks have the same base is to look at the plastic kits: If the same jacks come in the kit, they're based on the same design.

I believe Cygnar has three heavy styles, the Ironclad base, the Stormclad base, and the Centurion base, but I'm not a Cygnar player.

>>53714239
The Stormclad was originally built on the ironclad chassis, but is so modified that it counts as a new chassis

Been quite some time since I played. Barely played in mk3. I'm having some trouble with news round up with the loss of the faction specific forums. What's been going on Mercenaries faction? I think I heard some preview stuff about a resistance book but I've had trouble finding news.

So this game is officially worse balanced than Bane spam during Mk2 at the moment right?

>>53714373
Nope. Nice low quality bait though.

>>53714349
So what's going on is this:

In addition to the main army books, what they're starting to do is to release subfaction style mini army books that focus on a specific part of the factions. An example here is that Cygnar is getting a book devoted towards just Trenchers.

So the Llase Resistance are at some point getting an army book focused solely on them. Based on what we've seen, you can expect a new caster, new units, and a theme list specific to the concept.

>>53714408
Well during Mk2 you knew you were going to be facing lots of infantry so even though it was strong, you could plan around it. In Mk3 you need a list that can handle Ghost Fleet, Heavy Metal, Amon/Harkevich spam, Oracles, and Dawnguard Sentinels all at the same time. I'd honestly rather be playing Mk2.

>>53714457
Turns out that it takes a while for a meta to develop, yes.

Just because there's more variety to lists doesn't mean the game is less balanced though. Hell, you can argue the game is more balanced because of it.

>>53714373
Fucking hell. Find some other thread to troll. Or geet a tad more creative. It's startiing to get annoying. Good trolling is supposed to be amusing.

>>53714457
>In Mk3 you need a list that can handle Ghost Fleet, Heavy Metal, Amon/Harkevich spam, Oracles, and Dawnguard Sentinels all at the same time.
You need a list PAIR that can handle those. And the other power lists you failed to mention because you don't actually play the game.

>>53714596
How does your pairing handle Amon/High Reclaimer? Hell a pairing clearly isn't fucking good enough when double Ghost Fleet is winning large tournaments.

If the rules forced people more towards combined arms then it would be more about beating your opponent rather than winning a game of list chicken. At the moment this game is making MtG's Modern format look like a strategic masterpiece.

>>53713911
Because the shops in my area are all having a lot of issues with Games Workshop getting stuff to them, so we're taking a look at a cheaper, smaller scale game while GW sorts it shit out. We're not just dropping 40k, of course, but we're shifting focus for a while.

>>53714457
Protip: most of these lists (and the ones you forgot) don't handle each other very well.

Meaning what people actually bring is up in the air.

>>53716663

Play infinity. Warmahordes is going the wrong way, Infinity is getting better and better.

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>>53714572

Not that guy but maybe he has a point. And maybe you should fuck off :)

>>53716965
>mom look i posted le sarcasm man again :^^^^^)
4chan tip of the day: reusing reaction images makes it really easy to identify samefag shitposters :)

>>53716765
>Protip: most of these lists (and the ones you forgot) don't handle each other very well.
>Meaning what people actually bring is up in the air.
Which is just piss poor game design. You're telling me the pinnacle of Warmahordes boils down to ships passing in the night? Any dipshit can design a game like that. There's too many abilities, too many spells, too many models doing different things in every faction to the point where factions don't really differ from each other anymore or have any coherent game plan. I think the High Reclaimer/Amon pairing is exquisite proof of that. Maybe if the answers were even half as good as the questions we wouldn't be stuck in a world of spam. If factions had better answers to infantry spam and heavy spam, lists would be forced to be more combined arms. Instead the game has shit like 4 point solos that give eyeless sight to A SINGLE MODEL, wooaaahh :OOO

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>>53716946
>Infinity is getting better and better.
How long will it be before Corvus Belle screw everything up? 5 years? 7? They all go down the tubes at some point.

>>53717198
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_aQupiaCSA

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>>53717055
>Having multiple ways to play a faction
>A bad thing.

>>53717055
You are really stuck ranting on Amon/High Reclaimer, despite the fact that Menoth has not won a single tournament ever since Reclaimer got nerfhammered.

>>53717428
The problem it leads to is that you can't say "oh I'm playing Khador, guess I'll need to bring my ARM cracking list" because Khador can field anything they fucking want to. Because lists don't have to have a common identifying theme, list picking becomes a game of chicken.

>>53717458
It's just an extreme example of what I mean. We can use Harkevich/Vlad if you want.

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KRAYE'S BACK BITCHES

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New CID stuff

Captain Jeremiah Kraye is now included in this CID. His dev talk is currently running and will remain active until Monday 6/12.

Hunter: Advance Deployment was removed from the hunter. Many theme lists and casters were able to fire into opposing deployment zones on the top of turn one using this rule on the Hunter. This is not a style of play we wish to encourage. Its removal opens up the design space for models like the Trencher Warcaster Lieutenant.

Trencher Cannon Crew: The Cannon Crew had a very hard time moving up the field fast enough to have relevant ranges to the enemy army on crucial turns in the game. It was also very hard to justify the rule ‘Dig In’ being on the model as it really wanted to be making attacks after moving up into range. We hope the addition of Advance Deployment will help mitigate both of these problems.

Colonel Markus ‘Siege’ Brisbane: Rift was replaced with Ground Zero. This spell should be more relevant with how we would like Siege2 to be played, while also have a very flavorful feel.

Patrol Dog: Noisy has been changed to a *Action and had its range reduced to 5". For two points the Patrol Dog brought extreme utility to the table. Instead of increasing its cost we felt reducing its effectiveness would be a more compelling option.

Trencher Express Team: Based on feedback from both battle reports and form submissions the Express Team needed a little more specialization. Grievous Wounds fits into its design intent and adds a utility ability that is uncommon in the faction of Cygnar.

Trencher Long Gunners: The removal of Practiced Maneuvers helps further differentiate this unit from standard Long Gunners.

Trencher Long Gunner Officer: Hit the Deck was being abused with Hitch’s ability to grant Feign Death. Go to Ground should be a reasonable replacement with less abuse.

>>53717955
Commander Anson Hitch: Fire and Displace was still allowing for could walls to be built in rather creative ways. We have replaced it with Press the Advantage for a similar effect with no chance of cloud-wall abuse.

Trencher Blockhouse: Updated to have Military Rifles. This was an excellent suggestion from the CID forums. We are still keeping a close eye on this model. Please make sure to focus feedback on the value of the Trenches placed by the Block House.

The following rules are being updated as well
Add the following to the Assault special rule:

If an assault attack misses its target and the attacker is in melee with the target do not reroll the attack against another model. It misses completely.
Structures

Structures represent fortifications, large and immobile artillery, sacred shrines, or other fixed positions that lend support to an army on the battlefield. Structures are independent models and are not warrior models.

Massive and Innanimate

A structure cannot be moved or placed and has no Normal Movement. Structures are never affected by the rule of least disturbance. Because it has no Normal Movement, a structure cannot aim.

A structure also cannot become knocked down or be made stationary. A structure never suffers blind.

Structures cannot make free strikes.

Structures are automatically hit by melee attacks. Structures never gain the DEF bonus from concealment, cover, or elevation. Structures cannot gain Incorporeal or Stealth. A model can never gain a back strike bonus against a structure.

Ranged Attacks While in Melee

A structure can make ranged attacks while in melee.

>>53717970
Updated Gravedigger Theme Force:


Army Composition

An army made using this theme force can include only the following Cygnar models:

· Cygnar warcasters

· Non-character warjacks

· Triumph

· Ranger models/units

· Trencher models/units solos

Special Rules

· This army can include up to one non-character Mercenary unit with Captain Jonas Murdoch attached to it.

· For every 20 points of Trencher models/units in this army, you can add one Trencher weapon crew unit, command attachment, or solo to the army free of cost. Free Trencher models/units do not count toward the total point value of Trencher models/units in the army when calculating this bonus.

· Trencher warrior models in the army gain Rise. (If a model with Rise is knocked down at the beginning of your Maintenance Phase, it stands up.)

· You gain +1 to your starting roll for the game.

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>>53717955
>Trencher Express Team: Based on feedback from both battle reports and form submissions the Express Team needed a little more specialization. Grievous Wounds fits into its design intent and adds a utility ability that is uncommon in the faction of Cygnar.
>"Cygnar didn't have enough access to Grievous Wounds in theme, so we gave them themed models with Grievous Wounds"
I didn't want to play Imperatus in my shop anyway, so there

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>>53717970
>Add the following to the Assault special rule:

>If an assault attack misses its target and the attacker is in melee with the target do not reroll the attack against another model. It misses completely.
Scouts are no long completely terrible!

>>53718182
people still aren't going to play the express team. It's still pretty bad.

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>>53717990
>one NON_CHARACTER unit of mercs
>... of Trencher models/units in this army...
Even less reason to ever bring Murdoch now. He can stay home and solve mysteries instead.

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>>53717026
>:^^^^^^^^^)

Yes, I've been making the rounds for many years

>>53718312
Grievous Wounds + Boosted Thunderbolt.

It's not bad with GW added. It was bad without it, but it has a role with the change.

>>53718252
Perforaters too

>sullying that show by comparing him to cygnar

>>53717607
Git good fag

>>53718719
hello my fellow leaf

>>53717607

Technically what it means is that "oh I'm playing Khador, my ARM cracking list better be able to handle a board full of winterguard or uhlans under Signs and Portants.

Because no matter how tricky that second list is, if you don't have an ARM cracking option, they drop the ARM. Gear check is a gear check.

>>53717955
>Hunter: Advance Deployment was removed from the hunter. Many theme lists and casters were able to fire into opposing deployment zones on the top of turn one using this rule on the Hunter. This is not a style of play we wish to encourage. Its removal opens up the design space for models like the Trencher Warcaster Lieutenant.

This I did not see coming.

>>53717970

I'll admit, I'm not really impressed by the blockhouse. I'm not really sure how much it will add due to being immobile and unable to aim.

I might be wrong but it feels like the battle will quickly advance beyond it and it's guns are not really that impressive for it's cost.

>>53717955

What is the point of normal long gunners with trencher longunners being objectively better in every way?

>>53719410
Cheaper and you get access to a UA?

>>53719832

>cheaper

This is what I imagine them being, a cheaper alternative when you want more bodies on the table rather than elite stats. However right now they are not that.

>access to a UA

The Trencher Longgunners have a UA and it's better in every way so far.

>>53719848
I forgot about the UA, my bad
Still
Long Gunners+UA=20 points
Tencher Gunners+UA=22 points
It's slightly cheaper I guess?
Also Long Gunners are more maneuverable

>>53719895

>It's slightly cheaper I guess?

Yeah, right now it sorta feels like that 2 points is a bit too little a difference. Considering all the upsides and that trenchers are getting pirate-tier type support at this point.

They really need to give normal Long Gunners a selling point over Trencher Gunners. As normal Long Gunners don't even shoot better compared to the 'Tougher, better in melee, better at range, more support' Trencher gunners.

>Warmachine Invitational Attendance down across the country
>Large cons have reduction in attendance for the first time ever

Ded thred, ded game

So what's the general opinion on Maddox right now? I was planning on using her because I want to run a fluffy Stormblade list, with a Stormclad, a pair of Ironclad, and an as of yet unknown number of Stormblades and Stormlances under her command. And a Squire. Because fuck yeah, Squires.

>>53720498
General impression is she's fine, just a bit on the boring side. She doesn't see a lot of competitive play because she's basically a slightly tweaked Stryker1, and Stryker1 is usually thought to be slightly more powerful.

She runs the Storm Division theme really well, and that's what you're describing as your ideal list, so look in to that.

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>all the trench-tastic shit I ever wanted
>but there's no players left in my area
It would only be more monkey's paw if you replaced it with Llael Resistance as a full faction.

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> Not-Mordheim WarmaHordes this fall.

I hope this is good, because I'm pretty burnt out on all wargames that include 20+ models per side. They all seem to be too much money/effort when compared to skirmish games that cost way less and are just as fun.

>>53714911
>How does your pairing handle Amon/High Reclaimer?
By throwing cats at them.

>>53721322
But there's so many fucking Skirmish games already, we don't need more.
God dammit.

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>>53721322
could b gud
My favorite dudes and favorite solo were Ret's models of choice for the casual format of the same name last year, so odds are good that I'd try to get people to play.

>>53718623
>>53718312
Here's what you do:
1) Have the Express Team shoot a beast or jack. If you get a crit that's perfect (increase that chance via Deadeye or Fire for Effect, etc.), but not having it is fine too.
2) Have your Long Gunners 2.0 shoot it and takeout its Cortex/Spirit.

There you go. Massively annoying at reasonable cost.

>>53721753
GW keeps itself swimming in revenue during wargaming downtrends by keeping up constant "casual skirmish game" releases that are a blatant gateway drug for the game proper.

I can't blame PP for trying to similarly branch out with something other than Extreme Colossal "drop a casual hundo on a bigfuck centerpiece and you too can spend an afternoon making bad jokes about" Wrestling

>>53721753
>But there's so many fucking Skirmish games already
Yeah, but how many are actually worth anything?

We've got Infinity, Shadow War and Guildball.... and I can't really think of anything else worth bothering with. Maybe Company of Iron will be alright.

>>53721902
What about Malifaux? People are constantly shilling for it here.

>>53721935
> Malifaux
Oh, yeah, that too.

But, still. Shadow War, Infinity, Malifaux, Guildball and I guess Age of Sigmar Skirmish... that's only five games that have any real kind of player base. WarmaHordes seems like it could fill a solid skirmish slot in the market without too much difficulty.

Who knows, we'll see.

>>53721935

It's a great game

>>53721773

...those are very linear promotions/not much customisation.

>>53722172
That was for the old Company of Iron. This new boxed set thing will have different rules. Not sure HOW much different, though....

>>53722292

Right. Hope they allow more customisation than that, it's something I like in my skirmish games.

>>53721322
All I want from this is the ability to make character units/solos and use them in Warmahordes with permission.
Please PP. Do this for me.

Would anyone mind posting the Steamroller army list sheet? For some reason I'm having trouble finding it.

>>53722688
Nevermind. It's hosted on the wtc page. Why isn't PP hostiing this in some easy-to-find place on their website? Like under "Steamroller"?

>>53722736
Conflict Chamber prints Steamroller sheets. It's pretty nifty.

>>53722824
Yeah, CC is damn neear perfect. I just needed empty sheets in case some players forget to bring their lists.

Wait a minute I just realised something:

SOLES ISN'T THERE!

Holy crap. That's why this cid is progressing much faster and smoother!

>Strider Deathstalker
>Solo designed for picking off infantry
>Ranged model, killing from RNG12 with Snipe and has Swift Hunter
>SPD7 DEF15

>Master Tormentor
>Solo designed for picking off infantry
>Melee model with Sprint
>SPD6 DEF14

Yup, that makes complete sense. The model forced to go into melee SHOULD be slower and easier to hit, right?

>>53723382
Oh boy our resident Skorne whiner has come out to complain about something yet again

>>53723403
>Spend hundreds on a faction
>Its options are worse than the options other factions don't bother bringing anymore because their theme lists are better
>Soon Grymkin will have more theme lists than Skorne

>>53722736
It's in the SR doc under organized play?

>>53723469
and he's still going folks!
We get it, Skorne sucks, kindly fuck off.

MoW theme book when

>>53723505
Supposedly after Northkin theme, which is next.
>tfw I'm actually getting excited for Northkin theme
Man if Northkin have the same level of CID they're using right now for trenchers I will be a happy man.
Hell, they went and fixed up Kraye and he has nothing to do with Trenchers.

>>53723537
Prepare to be disappointed

>>53723501
Just think, in another world he could have been off shitposting in 40k general. 20+ years of stagnating codexes, ripe for retroactive whining about "his" actually garbage faction(s), and instead he chooses to spend every day here bitching because the S&M Klingons aren't top dog and never will be because they aren't a mascot faction.

>>53723537

>Borka2 might be good for once

Wait, it's PP, what am I thinking.

How to make trollbloods on par with other factions:
>stone is removed from the game
>every model gets erratad for +2ARM and +1POW on all weapons

>>53694147
>>53708878
This isn't what I imagined after someone said Warmahordes finally has dogfights as a gameplay element...

>>53725498
Of you just play with 12/18s and shut the fuck up. Cygnar and Retribution have done it forever.

>>53725556
But cygnar/ret don't have to pay 15 points for a 12/18 with two initials and pow 15. Either way it would be more of a change for their infantry which is supposed to have innate strenght and resilience but dies to a breeze and can't crack armor. Trolls suffer from a double shit situation. Every other faction has okay models that become superb with support. Trolls have subpar models (which already cost more than other faction okay models) that become okay under support, which is not only the most expensive support boat but also requires caster resources.

>>53723403

Stop getting people to side with post-Errata Skorne whiners, asshole.

>>53723382

Strider's something of a subsidized unit.

>>53725556
>>53725620

Here's a challenge. Make a competitive list that doesn't spend 21-24 points from the very start (Mauler + min/max stone).

>You can't
>DesignSpace

>>53726672
Swallow the pill and don't play the stone.

Just trust me, it feels so good not to worry about it...

>>53726874

I've tried. Gunlines remove your heavies and anymore, you need the +1 Strength.

Not to mention sometimes if you don't have
Spirit Chaser, you just stare at certain units and realize you can't deal with it.

>>53726940
It's not a plan without holes, I admit. But man, it just feels great sometimes...

>>53693861
will privateer press ever just state whatan actual game size is for this game?

>>53726967

It feels great until you run into shit you can't handle without the Stone :).

Really, part of the problem with Trolls is there aren't any top players being honest with the issues. Flanzer has a couple of times but he doesn't play much anymore with real life shit. Jay moved on to other factions, which he stated there was a good reason for that due to how Trolls play...

So that leaves podcasts like Trollblood Scrum, who get on, berate the community about how Madrak 1 isn't that bad of a caster (For fucks sake...) and other nonsensical shit.

Only time I've seen them be actual critical of things is when Flanzer was on and pointed out the bullshit, then they were sycophants and agreed.

Trolls are a pretty good example of where PP actually succeeded in their new game design, yet failed because their game design idea was just bad. The faction lost its identity and they made everything so fucking vanilla, it is just boring.

>>53726973
What do you mean?

>>53727082
warhams a clear this is large scale model
Infinity is skirmish 10-20 models
Frostgrave is a warband of 10 models
Guildball 6 models
Bolt Action large scale

only Warmahordes and Wrath of kings have a shitty "scaling" battle size. Wrath of kings at least got rid of point and uses an actual scaling "points" model that can actually scale. Which leaves this shitty game. it still uses traditional points, which to the games own admit are useless but do nothing to streamline it. so, when is PP going to actually state what the true scale of this game is?

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>>53727205
> mfw I see that privateer Press is using the CID model
so this game will be dead in a year? maybe two?

>>53727229

>WMW Qualifiers Attendance is down across the country
>Former positive podcasts are now openly complaining
>Local scenes non-existent

It is dead anon

>>53713994
Just pick neither, it's not like someone is forcing them down your throat.

>>53727016
I feel like the recent Battle Engine CID was the perfect illustration of how off-base PP is with their design decisions when it comes to Trollbloods. They are either SCARED TO DEATH that Trollblood buffs will dominate the game, or they are just not paying as much attention to Trolls as they should.

Either way, it leads to them overcosting sub-par models all the time.

The War Wagon was never being used prior to the CID. It cost too much and did too little. After the CID, it:
- Got cheaper.
- Got a passive RAT bonus.
- Gained a lot more health.
- Gained better melee capabilities.
- Got a Theme List to go with it.

AND IT STILL ISN'T WORTH TAKING.

I know it might still change before it's released, but even as it currently is it just doesn't do enough. It only has two ranged attacks. The scattergun is just a vanilla POW 12 and if you miss an attack with the Pounder, then your primary reason for taking the War Wagon in the first place is totally wasted. Then, it's melee abilities are wasted by having 0.5" melee range and being a Huge base. This makes maneuvering difficult most of the time.

Even after MASSIVE buffs to a model that they claimed was ready to go a year ago, it is still only "good." There is nothing "great" about it. This can be said about nearly everything in Trolls. Almost everything is undercosted and sub-par. And there are STILL people who claim you just aren't using Blitzer/Borka-2/etc. "correctly."

>>53714373
Worse balanced and just plain worse are two different things though.

>>53727314
>Terrific post by anon

Right on, shows you how bad the state of that faction is.

>>53727314
How the fuck are it's melee abilities wasted when it can just slam through?

It doesn't have to stop for anything but what it fails to kill.

>>53728097
Once you get the Wagon on the table, you'll see how relatively easy it is to stop it.

Your opponent can position troops/jacks/beasts around so that it is awkward to get your huge based model to within 0.5" in a straight line while it charges.

Then, even if you do slam something, that doesn't necessarily mean you've killed it, so it might still be in the way and you won't be able to slam it again during the same charge.

This is all also assuming you actually hit any of the models in your way. Which, at MAT 6 is not at all guaranteed.

It just doesn't work out all that well in practice. Seriously, go read the battle reports in the CID forums and you'll see people saying that the 0.5" melee range is a problem and the Wagon had a habit of not getting where it wanted to be.

>>53728267
What?

It gets an additional die on impact attack rolls and slams any model it hits d3" away. How the fuck are they positioning stuff so that you can't make it there?

Yes, you are correct, something with a shitload of boxes does stop it, but hey, welcome to battle engines. The only one actually good against heavies unsupported would be the turtle.

>>53728374
Aren't the slams only triggered by regular and charge attacks? I'm pretty sure impact attacks only knock guys down.

>>53728374
From experience, the cricket does fine against heavies, too.

>>53700751
So I'm new to Warmahoards, but is this just PP's way of kind rectonning so unit fluff? Making it so Long Gunners are Trenchers now (or at least part of the Trencher branch of the Military) instead of just being their own thing?

Just a way to slowly phase out the old unit by presenting the newer one?

>>53729182

No. It's a way to sale new models.

>>53723242
Did the sun finally come out in Bellevue and burn him up into a little pile of black ash?

>>53729831
one can hope. Maybe someone at PP finally clued in to how unloved his comments are among the community and barred him from the public eye.

>>53730012
I'm surprised he wants to be in the public eye at all with that stupid fucking hair.

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>>53730044
No one sees him until it's too late...until it's time he feeds! HE IS THE NIGHT!

PP needs to hurry up and add a rule to Ace that lets you take it in a merc list as long as Cain3 is your warcaster.

>>53730805
Ace is dead. He fell into ocean in Caine's book.

>>53730824
Well crap.
this is why I really need to start paying attention to the lore one day.

>>53716946
oh man i almost fell on the floor reading that.
Infinity has indeed improved by leaps and bounds since v1, but even the current v3 is shite.

>>53730824
No he isnt
He got blown up in Caines first book but was salvaged and repaired

Caine had to get rid of him, a high tech warjack is too cumbersome when trying to lay low

>>53731254
Ace2 one day then?

>>53731306
Ace2 Cryx crabjack with Caine's daughter the Pistol wraith caster.

>>53731347
Don't tempt me boy.
I WANT GORESHADE BACK.

>>53731696
Friendship ended with TORUK
Now SCYRAH is my best friend

>>53731696

You can have Goreshade back. We already have too many thematically confused casters in Ret to want one more.

But in exchange, you have to convince PP to give Ret a caster Ret actually wants. Or fix the multiple thematically confused and/or garbage tier casters we have.

>>53731120
Can relate, Infinity has great models and pretty tables but the rules in general are so fucking badly designed and frustrating they make mk3 look almost playable.

I feel like tabletop wargames never went through the same period that Magic went through in its early years where the rules really got hammered out into something that made sense.

The only thing I want from PP (besides fucking up their public image) is to bring page5 back.

mk3 is here and it's here to stay. Play it or fuck off.

Complaining and whining on internet threads used to give you nothing but a cold shoulder, now it gives you an errata...

>>53732892
>Play it or fuck off.

The Warmachine Community everyone, enjoy your stay

>>53732892
Page 5 worked because PP was the alternative to GW and everyone was taking it lightly. They aren't the alternative anymore, and people are being cunts about it. I mean just look at your post. Do you actually think Skorne was okay? How much of an asstwat do you have to be to still bear some kind of grudge against the Skorne players who quite correctly thought their faction was unplayable?

>>53733011
They got an errata and still shit the net because it "wasn't enough".

"muh def 12" everywhere.

>>53733115
But what if it wasn't enough? Aren't you doing exactly what PP were doing prior to the errata? All of Skorne's Mk2 crutches were taken away, the faction had nothing to lean on going into Mk3. Nobody could truly know if the Skorne errata was enough considering there isn't anything to compare it to. The string of non-results for the faction is pretty damning though considering the wall of buffs they got.

>>53733221
I never complained once back in mk2 when I was playing the shit faction.

Play with the hand dealt to you or leave the table.

>>53733619
Well I've basically given up on the game at this point so I'm leaving the table. Might play with the stuff I have every now and then but I can't see myself spending any more money.

>>53733619
Going by sales, people are taking the leave the table option kek

>>53733619
>am I out of touch?
>no, it's the playerbase that are wrong.

>>53733670
if you're getting out seriously consider selling while you still may be able, with CID/themes etc. things are changing swiftly and soon no-one want's to buy old stuff that has since become useless.

Even now armies aren't selling that well and things aren't likely to get much better., imo better get some money than none.

>>53733884
Joke's on you I play Skorne so theme lists will never make half of my models redundant.

>>53733905
Can someone make a sadface tyrant.jpg?

>>53733884
Yeah, I feel like I missed the boat. I'm just tempted to just toss my model collection at PP's window.

It's weird. Every time I play the game, I have fun with it, but every time I come on here, all the bitching makes me not want to play the game.

I think I need to stop coming here.

>>53734138
Throw a metal model through their window with a note attached saying "if you'd switched to plastic sooner this model wouldn't have broken your window".

>>53734156
"Shut up and play" solves a lot of issues people have.

Why does Obliteration have flavour text instead of some useful rule? Is it the only spell in the game with that?

>>53734156
Same really. I ended up avoiding here for months because the constant Skorne bitching drove me away it seems that even after the errata people are still bitching.

Now it's just some sort of sad defeatist circlejerk/trolling that while annoying is still preferable to early MK3 Skorne tears.

>>53734174
I played trolls. My collection likely outweighs me.

>>53734202
Arcane bolt/blast is also like that

>>53734138
You might still have 1 foot in the boat, people seem to be playing in some places, maybe someone will take them even at decent price (if not tossing is legit option as well)

>>53734156
There's nothing wrong with liking a bad thing provided you know you like a bad thing.

>>53734202
Oblit and Arcane Blast are both vanilla AoE damage. The text is just there so it's not a blank (because no self respecting warcaster would leave a spell description blank)

>>53734752
Is that why Obliteration is such a bad spell?

>>53734792
I once died to an Obliteration from Butcher1, because he rolled 22 damage.

>>53734792
Oblit's just a clutch spell. Not worth casting 90% of the time, but when it is it can be amazing.

>>53734792
There was that one time I blew up a pristine light with Helynna tossing a Sylys-pumped boosted Obliterate. That was a fun game.

>>53734965
>>53734974
>>53734985
But like, when Hellmouth exists I don't see the extra damage on the direct target to be even close to worth it. Some units just don't even care about being hit by Obliteration but the +4 damage from Hellmouth trashes them.

>>53734792
Oblit is rad. It's the best nuke spell in the game, or at least tied with Scourge. You don't need it all the time but when you need it, it's there for you.

>>53735009
Eh, I never really cast it for direct damage.

The best use I've ever gotten out of it was when a unit of Raiders had to call pathfinder to cross some forest and ended up clumped together. Guy figured I couldn't get an Oblit on them because of the ball feat, but Hexy1 arced an oblit into them and well, it was glorious

>>53729182
Until we get the fluff, we won't know for certain. My bet is that Long Gunners can be attached to the Trencher corps long term and so go through additional training and are only available to the Trencher theme book so normal Cygnar doesn't even get the choice between the two.

>>53735009
It's a nuke. An expensive nuke and you will have something better to do in 99% of all cases, but it's there.

For example, Butcher3 can actually cast a fully Obliteration, Feat and cast another one. A good play? Not really, but sometimes, you might need to go for the luck assassination.

Magnus2 is probably the caster who casts obliteration the most out of anyone who has it. Not because it's a good spell to cast every game, but in combination with his instant-knockdown POW 16 Arc-Nodes, he can heavily punish a greedy misposition.

>>53735315
I just don't get what Hexxy1 is meant to do with his fury.

>>53729182
The Trencher Long Gunner thing is a result of Mk3 being an untested pile of shite.

Basically Long Gunners were shit. Then they made Trencher Long Gunners which are decent and overshadow the originals.

Both units exist but one sucks and one doesn't and one fits in the new theme and one doesn't. So there's no point in taking the shit ones but people already own them and PPs autistic rules means you can't use "counts as" models, so everyone needs to buy the new unit, even if you own the old ones.

>>53735465
You are not wrong about it being a bad spell. But most warnouns have one of this bad nukes to fill out the skill card.

But when a caster is lucky and gets something cool for his skill card, like Tempest, Scourge or Earthquake, you are living the dream.

>>53735535
they should have just retired the old long gunners and sold upgrade kits to make the existing models Trencher-ized.

>>53735541
>Hexxy1 gained Parasite, an alright spell
>Lol Denny1 already had it, AND one of the cool spells you listed
Skorne's spellslingers leave much to be desired.

>>53735465
Hexy1 uses it to delete a low ARM unit himself, or after a parasite hit to put a single high POW shot into the caster.

The best use of it I've made beyond the Raider thing I discussed above was to parasite a low def/high arm warbeast that's loaded on fury and follow it up with an oblit for a big POW18 hit, then finish killing it with the rest of your army and reave the fury to be sitting at 4 again. or just cast it on something else you hate, then reave.

It's not a spell you're going to cast in every game, but there are situations where you can use it to empty his stack so you can steal fury from opponents.

is jack spam viable with cryx? a friend of mine got me mortenebra 1 and I might as well use her if I have her.

>>53735609
Sure, but Denny1 doesn't have access to the kind of mass guns Hexy1 does.

List I'm running as a partial counter to Ghost Fleet and a future counter to Grymkin with the side bonus of being good into most infantry spam that people have started playing is this:

https://conflictchamber.com/#c9201b484xhG6zeMfhcv7y6w6w6L0Ofl5U6c6d

Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points

(Hexeris 1) Lord Tyrant Hexeris [+28]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Chiron [19]
- Razor Worm [7]
Efaarit Scouts [6]
Gremlin Swarm [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Task Master [3]
Farrow Brigands (max) [15]
- Farrow Brigand Warlord [4]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Swordsmen (max) [13]
- Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard [4]

Parasite + Prey can delete even Colossals from the table. Chiron's weird and I'm not sure, but Hexy1 meshes with him super, super well.

>>53735782
morty's not the greatest with Jack spam, at least morty1. That's more like Venethrax's or Morty2's game now. I could see her running a bunch of combined arms jacks like Reapers and Crabjacks, along with Carrion Thralls to fuel Sacrificial Lamb and just to chunk up the enemy with Finisher. She could be good with like Stalkers too, or the Kraken. she obviously wants Warwitch Sirens too.

Morty1's a shadow of her former self, Venethrax took her best spell and even Scaverous plays jacks better than her now.

>>53735890
yesh... does her little buddy make up for any of that or is it just a drain on what could have been more warjack points?

>>53736038
mostly just a drain, I've found.

>>53735541
There are a lot of ways to get a couple of models that can only be hurt by magic, so having at least one damaging spell on your card is a great fallback.

Yeah, it's mostly a forgettable spell, but it's a non-trivial disadvantage for a caster to have no zot spell.

CID autism producing gold againt

"Re: "B-but it's 1 DEF higher!!" DEF 14 doesn't do as much as you'd think. Gun Mages dropping from DEF 15 to 14 is most of the reason they aren't run in Mk 3. In a battlegroup engagement, boosted shots and melee attacks are a given, and my Hunters never survive more than two turns into a dedicated engagement.
Re: "removing Extended Control Range instead of AD" I wouldn't knock this as an option. I've been experimenting with Chargers as deep-strike pieces, outside of Control Range. They can't deal with massed infantry or battlegroup pieces, but I find they take out support pieces quite well. However, that won't quiet the INCESSANT WHINING, not to speak of the anti-Cygnar bigotry."

Watch out for dem anti-Cygnar bigots they're a real problem in this day and age.

>>53737183
BLUE LIVES MATTER
oh wait

>>53737183
the real reason that gun mages aren't brought anymore is losing truesight and the meta shifting away from the infantry swarms they used to prey upon. Cygnar has better ways to clear infantry now in Storm Division, especially since stealth doesn't protect from spark nodes.

If gun mages regained truesight, even just in their shitty theme, they might see more play. People like gunmages and they're commonly cited as the reason people picked up Cygnar, PP just removed their reason to exist in the edition change because they're baddies.

>>53735609

Well, both Hexeris leave much to be desired. Rasheth's got his shit straight.

I guess Xekaar wants to be a spellslinger but just fucking sucks who knows what they were doing when they made him.

>>53737278
No they removed truesight because the anti-Cygnar bigots successfully lobbied them to do it behind a closed doors meeting.

>>53737329
Xekaar's meant to be a caster who protects his army hard for a turn, and then uses the result of the blunted alpha to counter punch super hard.

The problem is that he dies far too easy, even under feat.

>>53737354
Xekaar is a caster with 3 offensive debuff spells he's supposed to place on enemies.

He's supposed to get Pursuit, Mortality, and Deadweight into play. With Fury 6 stat and no arcnodes.

His spell list is a fuckin text book spellslinger list, if he doesn't cast this shit all his fury can do is the odd animus and Psychosurgery, where's the fucking value in that?

>>53737380
Marketh. It's not the answer you want to hear, but it's clearly the answer they intended.

>>53735832
>Sure, but Denny1 doesn't have access to the kind of mass guns Hexy1 does.

The fuckin shit are you smoking? I want me some of that. Denny always has and still does have access to plenty of guns, her shooty lists have always used a variety of mercs.

>>53737487
plus Ghost fleet has some guns to scalpel out solos/apply stationary.

>>53737487
Not the kind of guns that Hexy1 can bring.

Denny1 can't put 5 RAT8 with a reroll POW13-15 guns on the table that threaten 24", for example.

>>53737278
Like there won't be a gunmage theme at some point

>>53739974
There already is one, it's terrible.

>>53739974
Uh anon there already IS a gunmage theme
http://battlecollege.org/index.php/Theme_-_Sons_of_the_Tempest

Note to self, Madrak3 doesn't really do much at super low point value games

>>53740048
>Pretending he does anything at higher point games

I need a case to carry my army around in, plastic tupperware isn't cutting it.
Suggestions?

>>53740132
Hey I did win, so I must have done something right

>>53740172
Iron baking pan with a snap on lid. Glue rare earth magnets to your bases. It's really nice if you have a faction with a lot of snappable fidly bits like Legion.

File: 10054790.jpg (35KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

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>>53740172
I use a Tackle bag with tackleboxes and I filled the seperate compartments in each box with foam that I carved out. The pockets hold my templates and dice. I had a bigger plastic art supply box for my jacks. Also, you can buy extra tackle boxes seperately, so I have my X-wing stuff ready to go by swapping a couple of them out.

Khador version of Dr. Poison when?

>>53740172
The Chinese do great deals.
Don't get suckered in by branded miniatures cases. Buy from the source.
Can just get the foam and add your own bag/case.

>>53737749
I'm sorry but please stop comparing Hexxy1 to Denny1 just because Hexxy1 can bring Reivers/Brigands.

NEW GAME IDEA

2 CASTERS, YOU BRING 100 POINTS OF SHIT PLUS WHATEVER JACK/BEAST POINTS YOUR CASTERS HAVE

AT THE START OF THE GAME YOU BOTH PICK AND REVEAL A CASTER

THEN PLAY A NORMAL 75 POINT LIST FROM THE SHIT YOU HAVE

YOU AREN'T LOCKED INTO LISTS THOUGH, SO YOU BASICALLY HAVE PSEUDO-ADR UP AT ALL TIMES

>>53737329
The fuck are you talking about?

I inherited some Khador units from a friend who was starting but decided to shift faction and just gave me is Khador stuff( he owed me a few huge favorável)

Currently I have a:
Irusk1
Wardog
Behemoth
Destroyer
Juggernaught
Full ironfang set with a kovnik
Widowmakers scouts

Is this a good base for a list? Where should I expand? Tbh I looked at man IoWars and they really seem cool but expensive so I thought of getting them to get 75 ptz

>>53742947
This is more than serviceable. Irusk1 is primarily an Infantry-support caster and he really likes Man-O-Wars and Kayazy Assassins/Eliminators. The Man-o-War Shocktroopers really want the officer attachment and the Kovnik to function though.

But he is not awful with Pikemen either. Iron Flesh and Battle Lust do good with them and so does Pathfinder.

You should decide which jacks you want to play (it's either solo-behemoth or the Jugger+Destroyer), because Irusk is an infantry caster and fill the rest of the list out with Winter Guard, Kayazy, Man-O-Wars or Pikemen.

Oh and Widowmakers are always playable. It's one of our the best units. But if you want to "oomph" them up, grab yourself a Marksman.

File: IMG_20170611_144305.jpg (1MB, 3264x1836px) Image search: [Google]

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I painted sum shit for my Legion of Steel theme and an objective, because I'm sick of using an empty base for that.

>>53743335
So a list of irusk1 + behemoth+ full ironfang with Kovnik+ man o war with Kovnik + widowmakers scouts a good 50 pts list?
I like the idea of making a heavy infantry Khador list

>>53743360
Is that the top of a pillar from the Mines of Moria set?

File: IMG_20170611_144446.jpg (2MB, 1836x3264px) Image search: [Google]

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>>53743423
Yes, that's a very nice list, especially for learning the game.

None of these models are something you will ever feel bad for owning later down the line too.

>>53743437
It is indeed.

>>53742690
Cygnarians believe themselves to be entitled to literally everything.

>>53741621
Got a link?

So, looking to get into this game, going to start with the cygnar/cryx box and I got a few friends willing to play if I do. question is, after I do get the box, what should I look at getting next for the two armies? I'd just get the two all-in-one boxes but I don't have the kinda cash to shell out for both at once and I want to keep the two factions roughly the same size.

>>53745086
Uh....You want to expand the two armies you already got or get more armies?

>>53742432
No one will do it in age of theme lists. Need to spam and 25pts aren't much to play with.

Thanks PP. Really emulating 7th ed 40k very well

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You know, I just realized that Hordes as a whole has no character lights.
I wonder why?
Also new thread when

>>53746471
on it

>>53746594
>>53746594
NEW THREAD
COWBOY UP