/WMG/ Warmachine and Hordes General

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Is getting into Ghost Fleet hyperbole the new shitpost topic?

Have you guys forgotten how to kill infantry models? Protip: The mk2 infantry hate didn't go anywhere, you just need to put it into your lists.

>>53658447
It's twofold. Ghost Fleet requires more attack volume than usual, even for an infantry list. And most people don't bring abundant damage roles, generally due to how the meta has been shaping up.

The first one is by design, and is a strength of the list, considering the craptastic stats that revanent crew have.

The second is part of what people need to get over. I've only played Ghost Fleet a few times, but I don't feel that their ~9 models a turn recursion is game breaking. Sprays, AoEs, and E-leaps are available in every faction.

Lists are up for the RMR

https://conflictchamber.com/?event=10

>>53658885
I think the big deal is that it's either good recursion and an amazing assassination or insane recursion, and people haven't adjusted to the assassination

>>53658447
This is bait.

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>>53658944
>Retribution Army - 74 / 75 points
>[Theme] Forges of War

(Garryth 1) Garryth, the Blade of Retribution [+29]
- Griffon [8]
- Griffon [8]
- Hyperion [36]
- Hyperion [36]
- Moros [11]
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [0(4)]
Arcanist Mechanik [0(2)]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
House Shyeel Artificer [0(5)]
Stockpile (Objective) [0]

LMAO 2HYPE

>>53658944
>all those Gunnbjorn's
Man people REALLY don't like ghost fleet do they

>>53659369
That lists kills casters if you aren't careful, but yea, hilarious otherwise

>>53659467
And the same guy has this as his second list:
Retribution Army - 74 / 75 points
[Theme] Forges of War
(Thyron 1) Thyron, Sword of Truth [+27]
- Griffon [8]
- Griffon [8]
- Griffon [8]
- Hydra [15]
- Hydra [15]
- Hydra [15]
- Manticore [14]
- Manticore [14]
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [0(4)]
Arcanist Mechanik [0(2)]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
House Shyeel Artificer [0(5)]
Effigy of Valor (Objective) [0]

What is the purpose of herding eight jacks under Sir Bigsword NoFocus?

>>53659569
I think that's meant to be an anti infantry list.

Not sure why it's under Thryon though

>>53659692
Thyron gives them all Cleave, but that still doesn't explain the Hydras.

>>53658944
Lol what are these circle lists from dan yount

Helleana1 Morgaen1 Selene 1

Witch Coven epic solos/ individual warcasters when?

>>53660195
Ass1 Sidetiddy1 Belly1

>>53660243
>tfw you realize the egregore is just some hentai nerd who transitioned his soul into an orb and now floats around collecting slutty hunnies

Is it possible to do anything good with Eye of Truth?

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>>53660429

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>>53660497
eye of truth is so flipping strong, he almost always puts in work.

>>53660556
Is he good with the Avatar, or too expensive?

>>53660086
Looks like Brad is a hard attrition gunline and moshar is a anti-jackspam style list

>>53660576
Avatar's pretty not great, anon. Play it if you like it but most 'jack options are better fits in most situations. He gives blessed to Reckoners for instance, so they pick off Lances really easily, though the new theme force just gives all your dudes blessed anyway so...

DEAD GAME DEAD THREAD zzz

>>53662405

Everyone is too busy making Theme lists to try out.

2 of x
2 of y
2 of z
Take free solos to max FA

>DesignSpace

Too be fair boring cookie cutter theme forces are probably better than PP's attempts to mix fluff with game rules. That's the nonsense that makes super OP lists and super forgettable lists.

Does this game still suck?

>>53662823
Depends on who you play with

>>53662823

Yes

So,any good campaign rulsets out there?

>>53663458
Silly anon! People don't play this game for fun! All Steamroller all the time! Either git gud or fuck off and go play Age of Sigmar

>>53663458

Not really. They did a dnd style campaign where one player is effectively a GM and the other players try to play around his bullshit while conquering each others territories and avoiding their larger forces.

Does anyone have that new Cain book? Or does all the Denegrah stuff happen in a magazine story

>>53662858
idk about that.

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Siege2 concept art from earlier. The Trencher CID starts tomorrow. Prepare for bitching and moaning

>>53664806
>Black man in flying power armor wielding a hammer
Is Siege2 literally just Steel

Quick, design a mass-produced Khador light that isn't Scrapjack.

>>53665007
You're mom

>>53665007
A walking bomb
Think the Sentry Buster from TF2

>>53665064
This doesn't make sense. Why would you invest the time and money to produce a warjack that just goes off and explodes? The only reason they still use the outdated Berserker chassis is because the jacks are still around after hundreds of years, they're not building new ones

>>53663922
Oh? Where could I find this? I think I might be able to make it good with a bit of work. The base concept seems pretty cool at least.

>>53665007
>take Berserker chassis jacks
>remove all the armor
>??????
>Khador has real light jacks now

>>53665007
Man o War

Where do I go to download the older No Quarters? The link in the OP isn't working.

>>53666500
I'm uploading all of them right now, might take a while.

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>>53665968

To be honest, I'm kind of wondering why there isn't a Battle Engine that is just a large Man-O-War armor with fists like behemoths and maybe to cannons.

Seems like something Khador would build given it mentions they have an abundance of things to make Warjack chassis.

>>53666618
Sooo a mecha?

>>53666636

That's about the next step in Khadoran engineering in the Man-O-War department isn't it?

>>53666618
There is a MoW battle engine coming

>>53666652
That or some fucking heat insulation.

>>53665930

You have to dig through their insiders to find it. I think they eventually released all the rules in a no quarter.

Each faction had a special rule. Khador could churn our bodies like no one's business. Warcasters were like a power up and at GM discretion, most matches didn't have them. In a format with no Warcasters the journeyman really shine.

>>53666776
I bet Man o' Wars consider themselves/are considered extremely privileged, because they are some of the only Khadorans who get to experience the sensation of heat as something beyond, "What happens when my hand slips onto some coals."

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Ya like the pipes laddy?

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>>53667347
You don't?

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>>53667357
TOO BAD I'M PLAYIN' THEM ANYWAYS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciPu4DnKBuM

>>53666994
it's considered to be the highest honor and privilege to serve in the MOW corp.

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Rate my (very WIP) elfs.

>>53667550
Samus? Is that you?
Looking good so far, I assume this is just basecoating.

> USE THIS LINK FOR THE NEXT THREAD

http://textuploader <dot> com / d0thm

All nqs updated

>>53667550
THICC.

need wash, need highlight, too early to tell. probably using too many colors.

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>>53667562
I'm glad the metallic green weapons got the point across. Basecoating takes me forever but I'm getting there now that I've decided on colors.

Really unsure how to shade the reds when I get to that step, though.

>>53667778
I'll post again once I have all their boots in red, get gold everywhere it belongs, and throw on some shades.

The Retribution belt fetish is a bit annoying because it feels wrong to paint them in the same colors as any bare fabric, but I'll get that figured out too.

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>>53665247
>This doesn't make sense. Why would you invest the time and money to produce a warjack that just goes off and explodes?
tfw

>>53658354
that thing looks alot like a 40k knight

>>53668005
If your primary experience is 40k, then everything starts to look like something from 40k. That franchise has been a mad pastiche of borrowed ideas for decades.

tl;dr 40k didn't invent giant pauldrons or giant hunchback robots

>>53667451
IF I DIE I DIE IN STEAM.

>>53666963
Alright, I'm stealing a bit of that, and working on my own set. One thing that'll be similar is that casters are not on the battlefield often, in their stead are force commanders that get at start two battle plans they pick from a list. These commanders are stat wise basically better versions of common infantry types with more hit boxes and better hitting power. But they're very much support pieces.

Have you taken your JANK today anon?

https://conflictchamber.com/#c9201bcM6r4x4y5J5Gea4y4ybF5V

Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points

(Makeda 3) Makeda & the Exalted Court [+24]
- Agonizer [6]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Molik Karn [19]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Tyrant Zaadesh [4]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
Wrong Eye [17]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]

>>53669750
I honestly believe Makeda3 is a strong caster. A caster that can solo kill a colossal?

(Makeda 3) Makeda & the Exalted Court [+24]
- Archidon [10]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Molik Karn [19]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Paingiver Bloodrunners [9]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [6]

>>53666618
YOU SEE IVAN

WHEN YOU MAKE MAN BIGGER

MORE O'WAR ALWAYS FOLLOW

>>53658944
>that Calandra/Skuld pairing
Is this just some noob throwing together all that he has or are we witnessing the birth of something spectacular? I can't wrap my head around these lists.

>>53670068
Both lists are ass.

Jarl can work if you Feat to deliver Longriders and Fenns into gunlines (Khador), especially under Band of Brothers. Those lists are just ass though.

>>53670068
I have absolutely no idea. But especially that Calandra list seems really good. I'd love to play into that just to see what it does.

>>53670246
Neither of these lists have any armor cracking though. Not much anti infantry either. What they do have is high def, rat fixing and scenario play. I assume it's just some crazy point grabbing gimmick. I can't see it working though.

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>>53658944
>me, looking at these lists

>>53667550
Blood Angels/10.

>>53665007
Butcher3 mecha doggies.

>>53670801
Most of them seem more like casual fun lists, especially most of the Skorne ones.

>>53662493
Still better than taking 1 of each most effective unit in each role.

>>53670954
Exactly. Now you get to take two :D

>>53670950
Really? Most of the Skorne lists seem fine to me, besides the dude that paired the Zaals

And both those lists seem ok too, just a poor pairing

>>53667628
Thanks a bunch, anon.

The only non-scrapjack Light Warjack I could think of in Khador would be some kind of woodsman labor jack/thresher/loghauler used by more affluent Kossites or something like that. Alternatively, mass-produced but augmented Vanguards coming out of Occupied Llael. It's a real shame PP never pushed that further beyond that theme force or two for Zerkova.

>>53670954

Still not as good as arguing about what the most effective unit in each role is because everything is so well balanced.

Member Kriel Warrior and Fennblade arguments in Mk 2. I member

>>53670988

lol anon. Yep and don't worry, here are some free solos since you wouldn't normally take these anyways.

>>53671073

You read that thread too?

>old PP Skorne forums had a tournament report thread, one guy took both Zaals to a con. Halfway through the post he broke off to explain just how retarded the pairing was and why- halfway through the post because he figured it out halfway through the con.
>miss that guy

>>53671484
Thanks, I really needed that. Junior is so overcosted!

>>53671408
Why have Vanguards when the Rager exists?

>>53671467
Those are some pretty thick rose tinted glasses you got there anon

>>53671073

The Archidon is the new Gladiator. The Gladiator is still the Gladiator. Who ever could have seen this coming!!!?

>>53672164
Archidons Lightning immunity buff was this random change that seemed like nothing but ended up huge

>>53672134
Well the Rager didn't exist for most of the time Warmachine has been out. That being said, anon was asking for Khador lights. The Vanguard could still have a place for having a bit more finesse than the Rager, and superior mobility for protecting more upfront pieces. Malakov1 or certain Greylords could use something like that.

>>53672159

Nope. Or explain how my Fenn/Kriel warrior memory is bad

>>53669750

So is the goal basically just to ram Makeda down your opponent's throat and get on top of their caster?

>>53660497

Yes he's fucking disgusting with alot of Menoth lists, AOE blessed weapons is gross for shooting lists.

>>53668262
>Warmachine released 2003
>Original 40k Knight models released before 1980

Sure.

>>53671073

Naaresh is pretty mediocre caster in general, there's a Rasheth list that went Mammoth with no Agoniser. The Morghoul2 list is all over the fucking place.

The Zaadesh list has too many beasts without enough fury support for Zaadesh to handle them.

>>53671653

Was it a thread by that retard Billy Mahu?

>>53669750

You know what I don't actually hate that list under SR2017.

>>53673394

Nah, the "Zaal1 rewards the ability to get half your army killed" sig guy.

>>53673656

No idea who that was.

>>53673189
Sure that's easy.

Neither was available in RoW, EE, or the MMM and before EE existed you took Grim1 to counter Cryx and that list ran Fenns. Nothing in mk2 ran Kriels unless you were trying to be a snowflake

>>53671467
I thought the name of the game in MK 2 was Warders and Champions

>>53662858
If it depends on who you play with then that's a yes. Beer & pretzels anyone?

>>53673357
Well, the Naaresh and Morg lists are mine, so let's have a talk there.

Naaresh was built more on the assumption that people would be bringing Hark jackspam, but he's a pretty good counter to jackspam in general. Lamentation puts huge pressure on mobility casters, and the feat both lets you deal with armor skews and armor skew yourself. Naaresh is also quite difficult to kill, especially on feat turn, a 15/20 steady tough caster with 5 transfers and three shield guardsis often something a lot of lists can't effectively answer, and blur can make him that much tougher to kill. But he's going to trade up pretty hard against every jackspam list in that tourney. Extra points for being a massive drain on Circle and Legion spam as well, as both factions are still highly amini dependent

I went with Titans because of the khador theme killing ad, otherwise it would be soldiers.

>>53674182
Morg is kind of everything, but he's built more as a generalist drop. Its my primary anti gunline drop, but it can crack war jack arm pretty well, deal with most any infantry list, and Morg is a surprisingly good Ghost Fleet drop as well, though much better into the terminus version no one brought. It's got a reasonable assassination, and against certain casters hutchuck can ambush a brain damage grenade into a blinded caster, a tactic that can win a game, though he's more there for rust or to knockdown blinded models

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>>53673334
you're talking about these things? they bear little resemblance to modern 40k knights.

>>53673961

Madrak 2 took Kriels and Fenns, he was competitive.

Madrak 1 did as well.

Try again.

>>53673998

After Warders were nerfed? No really.

>>53674537
Didn't they not get nerfed until like 2016?
Right when the edition was practically over?

>>53674517
You only ever ran Fenns with them because reach. Nobody ran Madrak1 in any kind of competitive pairing.

Do you have any events that had any kind of placement from trolls that had Kriels? I don't think you do because there isn't one

This doesnt have anything to do with balance but the other reason you never saw Kriels was the actual monetary cost issue. A full Kriel boat cost well over a & 100 and Fenns cost less than half that. By the time plastic Kriels came out EE existed and by then the only pairing you played was RoW/EE.

After EE got nerfed things went kinda nuts but you either went back to Grim1 or ran Calandra double Croaks and sometimes Doomy3.

>>53674182

Having played frequently into Naaresh he's pretty shit. My constant complaint is he's too fucking slow which means he cops the first hit all the time.

The last time I played into his Titan herd brick Naresh feated defensively as he was the slower list. Xerxis counter feated and took 4 Titans off the board in one turn. Feating defensively kills his offensive output, and it's just not enough to keep Titans alive against an empowered, concentrated alpha strike.

Sure the list has very specific jack spam match ups set to counter like HakJacks and Amon, but I don't think this is a good choice for 2 lists doubly so when your Morghoul2 pairing is just so bleh and discombobulated.

I would've dropped Morghoul2 to bring in Rasheth any day of the week. If there's a big generalist caster for Skorne it's him.

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>>53674636
it's amazing how much they ruined Madrak 1 in mkiii.

His big issue was that his upkeeps got taken down easily and he got resource strapped, but after mkiii toned down his nemeses they just gutted him down for no reason other than "fluff"

>>53674774
You don't feat defensively into concentrated armor cracking, you set up a piece trade with one of the sentries and then feat offensively afterwards.

And slow? The dude can go 18" himself in a single activation, which matters far more than you think.

And rashers has a lot more issues into baldur1/2 than Naaresh, again something that I expected to see more of.

And I think you're seriously underestimating the power of morg2 as a generalist, there's very few lists he's got a bad drop into.

>>53674414
How much money does it cost to actually move goalposts anyways?

>>53674636
>Do you have any events that had any kind of placement from trolls that had Kriels? I don't think you do because there isn't one

Simon won Cancon IG Qualifier. Had Kriels.

Simon also went on to win Cancon IG Finals. Took Kriels.

Jamie Saxon took 2nd at GigantorCon Masters with Kriels.

Andrew Lericos took 2nd at the Dark Omen Invitational with Kriel Warriors.

That was in a cursory review of the Discount Games Tournament listing for Mk 2.

>This doesnt have anything to do with balance but the other reason you never saw Kriels was the actual monetary cost issue

Has nothing to do with what I said.

>>53674414

Anon, he proved you wrong. It's ok, move on.

Are Kriel Warriors really that bad?
I haven't had a chance to play them in MK3.

>>53675000
>>53675131
I wasn't even anon, I just wanted to post goofy 80's era 40k stuff :'(

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>>53675209
pic related

>>53675241
I like the squat

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Northkin theme getting discussed next Primecast.
Maybe some of our infantry will get looked at, I mean they went over Necrothralls in the Bane CID.

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>>53675286
I love this shit. I kind of wish GW did more throwbacks to their ancient tin minis

>>53675362
Mechanithralls, I mean.

>>53675369
well, wasn't the anniversary spacemarine just that?

not to mention the adeptus mechanicus looking white dwarf which is a squat model, all but in name

Whats that you said? Cygnar needs MORE Junior Warcasters?

>>53660497
>Is it possible to do anything good with Eye of Truth?

It's impossible to do anything NOT good with Eye of Truth.

He's literally the best warjack in the game.

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>>53675286
peek this, this was back before squats were even a thing, and eldar were "space elves".

Well the Cygnar CID is looking pretty nuts.

The Trencher Bunker looks pretty great conceptually. Being able to add some trencher terrain as a default is gotta at least keep the game more visually stimulating.

>>53675547
Squats were called Squats even in the first rulebook.

>>53675998
where/what is the Cygnar CID

>>53676097
Its the "Beta Test" for the Cygnarian Trencher Theme force book.

Pretty Booping ridiculous if you ask me. Not sure if anything is OP just yet, but....Man this isn't an army to be trifled with:

http://cid.privateerpress.com/

>>53658354
F

>>53676261
Not signed up, don't plan to.

There'll be 20 million iterations anyways, I'll just wait.

>>53676261
It's a good thing that poor, neglected Cygnar is finally getting the support it needs.

>>53676639
Don't worry, Khador will get their turn next.

>>53677629
I can't wait what theme is coming up for us?

>>53677629
Actually (Drumroll): Trolls do. With Northkin I believe.

>>53673535
Makeda3 is a hard zoning caster. Anything within 11" of her can be bitch slapped off the table with ease. The rest of the list just has to let her do her job safely while counter contesting.

So I'm working on a campaign right now and I need to figure out what to name resources. As it stands, I'd have three resources that each offer 2x points to one model type and x to another where model types would be warbeasts, warjacks and everything else.
Also, model types would each have a resource that grants 2x pts and x pts.

Example:
Resource 1: 2x WJpts, x WBpts
Resource 2: 2x WBpts, x pts
Resource 3: 2x pts, x WJpts

suggestions?

>>53678491
Cut down on resource types honestly. Make one generic supply that converts to X amount of points then give buffs through faction differences

>>53678660
That would allow some good abstraction, and I already have other resource types for fortification construction. Thanks anon, looks like it was a case of kiss.

>>53678743
I feel,ya man I'm,currently working on my own set of rules for my local meta and doing stuff like making casters feel important and world shaking by creating what amounts to a new unit type

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Trencher CID
It's a big one

Khador really needs a 2 point model, because they can't fill that gap with anything during list building, unless they are out of theme and bring a Gobber Tinker.

Now Cygnar gets a Dog which is way better ruleswise than the Wardog AND costs less points..

Fuck you, Cygnar.

New doggo sucks. Wardog is way better.

>>53676067
this was before the first rulebook for 40k

>>53680107
It says Rogue Trader on the side.

>>53678015
After Trolls we'll see the MoW theme being worked on!

>>53680129
rogue trader predates the 1st edition of Warhammer 40k, or rather, Rogue Trader is the first edition thereof. This is a from a Laserburn era teaser for their upcoming Skirmish game "Rogue Trader".

>>53679961
>>53680058
I'm getting mixed messages here.

Would Malekus, Reznik, and Amon join Feora or Kreoss?

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>>53679692
> 8 new entries.

Jeezums....

>>53679692
I like the flavour behing hit the deck... play pStriker whit them. opponent laughs at you... dual shot with long gunners, then earthquake them so you don't get hit by ranged. Opponent laughs at you and charges your toughless gunners.

I just wanna see the trencher warcaster model

>>53681328
You saw his art already.

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>>53681328
Well, the model probably won't be for a while, but here's some concept art!
Any other requests?

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>>53681432
IT'S LITERALLY HIS POSE WITH IDENTICAL GEAR

Forget mercs, Cygnar is the real pirate faction.

>>53681432
Trencher Commando Officer
and
Commander Anson Hitch

please.

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>>53681557
Here's the commander

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>>53681590
And the officer

>>53681432
oh...this feels disapointing...

>>53679692
>>53681432
>>53681590
>>53681612

I can only hope they give this much consideration and effort to the Exemplar stuff as well.

>>53681617
I mean, it's a Journeyman in a Trencher coat
What were you expecting?

>>53681590
>Irusk1

>>53681432
>Strakhov1

>>53681702
dunno just something more then just that?

>>53681432
How about Trencher Long Gunner CA?

What kind of weapons, stats, and special rules would a Llaelese-designed heavy have?

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>>53681771
A two in one deal
Female Trencher is my waifu

>>53679692
I have a problem with Trencher long gunners. I don't want to see new units released that are near identical to previous units just to make theme lists have more models.

How long till I get houseguard swordsmen to replace Dawnguard? Dawnguard Halberdiers to replace Houseguard?

>>53681867
I think this might also be so they can justify replacing the old long gunners with new models.

>>53681823
Mind just dumping the rest of whatever there is?

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>>53681986
Alright, here is dog

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>>53682026
The blockhouse

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>>53682049
Mechaniks, stealing jobs from poor Gobbers

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>>53682088
The Express Team
>double barreled sniper

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>>53682112
And Siege2 with color
That should be everything

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>>53682112
> Double barreled sniper rifle.
> Putting the barrels side by side, instead of one on top of the other.

>>53682156
>those two drums at the back

Literally an assault marine.

>>53681959
I heard they are planning a Man o War Gun Carriage not dissimilar to the current Gun Carriage.

At this rate we'll get models like a House Vyre Halberdier to justify keeping Halbs out of a Vyre Theme and us buying another 10 man box.

>>53681811
I wonder how a warjack-sized rapier would work.

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>>53682254
>giant robot is space marine
>jetpack power armor is space marine

What's next?
>uses round bases and d6s
>literally 40k lmao

>>53682601
POW 1 Armor Piercing

>>53682156
Have you said your daily prayers to our Spiritual Liege Roboute Guilliman?

>>53682295
Themes are here to stay I guess. Jesus, I had hopes they'd turn it around.

>>53682828
Themes are sort of a necessary evil at this point. The model pools have gotten very large and PP will never retire models out of fear of a huge shitstorm, so by using themes they can basically chunk create minifactions out of the major ones that are in theory easier to balance due to limiting the range of models in them.

>>53682221
PP are fucking idiots when it comes to guns.You think GW is bad, oh boy.

The worst thing is that they are actually a block away from a gunstore.

>>53682826
He's black and is using a hammer.

He's obviously Vulkan.

VULKAN LIVES!

Anyone in the Skorne FB group mind taking a couple of screenshots of the rage caused by the Trencher CID for an anon who doesn't have an FB?

>>53683286
It's about as bad as you imagine. Cygnar just got a 27 model errata as a reward for being one of the game's best factions which serves as a prelude to their 4th theme list, it's only natural that the least interesting and most spat on faction would be annoyed.

>>53683958

IT's unfortunate Cyngar gets this stuff first. The yearly splat books meant everyone got stuff at the same time. I'm sure every other faction will get awesome shit in the future. The sad part is that's the future and only Cyngar is getting it now.

>>53684203
They are apparently going faster with these CIDs, it's only gonna be two weeks IIRC

>>53684460
>PP has said they're going to do something
Look at me not taking it seriously.

Concept: Trencher Units

Yesterday, 04:08 PM
Trencher Long Gunners (Unit/CA)

Trencher Long Gunners are one of the long range fire support options to a Trencher force. With their long range repeating rifles the unit is similar to standard Cygnaran Longgunners but has a Trencher template put over it. They should be similar to standard Long Gunners but essentially be a more elite version.

>PP will release models with slightly different stats and slapped on key words, completely ignoring design space, in order to get you to spend money

If by the end of CID they don't admit this as a mistake I wont buy shit anymore.

>>53683264
Yeah but they're west coast hippies, they don't know shit about firearms.

>>53682828
Sucks. I'm so tired of playing against armies with 2 of this, 2 of that, 2 of this and you don't see half the fucking army in the faction.

Sucks. I guess they want to sell models though and people keep lapping this shit up.

>>53684854
I wont. I'm just about ready to quit if they go through with this bullshit. And I play Ret too.

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>>53684845
>They should be similar to standard Long Gunners but essentially be a more elite version.
>literally Long Gunners with +1/2 to their major stats and Tough tacked on, all for the original cost of long gunners
Oh god it's Super Ultra Space Marines all over again. Why now, PP?

>>53684895

I'm already a bit beyond that point. Seems like a bunch of people are. Current market is awful for selling your army because it's so flooded. Just gonna store my stuff away and maybe hope PP can fix it in a few years

>>53684956
Are you ready for Man o War Gun Carriage? Knights Exlempar super special fire death ballista?

>>53680939
Malekus is definitely on Feoras side, I would assume Reznik would go with Kreoss since he liked Sevvy a good amount but I still don't know, and Amon is up in the air.

>>53684956
>literally Long Gunners with +1/2 to their major stats and Tough tacked on, all for the original cost of long gunners
Wrong
Long Gunners cost 10/16
Trencher Long Gunners cost 11/18
Stop it with the consistent doom and gloom everything is terrible bullshit

>>53682221
>express rifle
>sniper
Its an elephant gun.

>>53685207
>Original cost of Long Gunners

Long Gunners costed 11/18 before this CID dontcha know?

Also this is terrible. First they came in and wrecked shit in the name of #designspace and now they're releasing a unit that is literally the same exact design space, but with a different key word!

This is lazy design work and looks greed motivated.

>>53663458
I'm working on one. WIP.
https://docs.google.com/a/ghchs.com/document/d/1dvUvImBepBfRvC-leT4bcYDB9TsoYNWlpDXyoXsMsNk/edit?usp=drivesdk
It's used to create custom warcasters/Warlocks.

>>53685360
Not the other guy, but this interests me. I absolutely loved the idea of the levelling solos and warjacks and things they did the year before Mk3 and a bit miffed they didn't bundle that kind of thing into the new edition or even just a NQ special.

I never got to do campaign stuff at the time because my meta was all-tourney-all-the-time, and now I'm getting back into the game I can't even get casual narrative content to sell my mates on.

Ded gaem

>>53685433
Thank you for somehow reminding me to put in feat creation rules.

And yeah, I'm working on character solos. Right now what we're doing is having players mark down "Exemplarly Moments ", where a model does so much work even the opponent has to step back and say "DAMN!" Once they get 3 of these the GM and some other players get to brainstorm rules to give it in accordance to the Exemplarly Moments and assign it a new point cost.
Of course, this is how we ended up with a Gobber Chef with an additional damage dice vs warjacks and jump, so...

>>53681432
>>53681823
>>53682088
Holy cashgrab batman!

>>53683222
>Themes are necessary
Only if PP wants to be lazy.

>>53685963
I think a trencher journeyman isn't a cashgrab as long as he has different weapons/spells.

Trencher Long Gunners are a blatant cash grab.

>>53682828
Yea man I wish we all used the same mercenary units all the time like the good old times in MK2

>>53686281
Or like we absolutely didn't at the start of Mk3 before the first Mk3 themes were released.

Making everything friendly faction was enough.

>>53686328
then you were using what was deemed competitive i.e. the top 10% of the roster.
At least with the themes the idea is that you have more varied lists as opposed to only the best.
Easier to tweak a theme list than a model

>>53660847

Yeah, the poor Avatar was hit so hard by Power Up making all the other jacks more efficient.

>>53687133
>Easier to tweak a theme list than a model
Yes, but now we are seeing what it leads to. The easy way is not necessarily the right way.

>then you were using what was deemed competitive i.e. the top 10% of the roster
???

>>53681700

Honestly, I'd love to see them finally do some more Paladin of the Wall stuff. Plenty of Exemplars already.

>>53685963
Winter Guard Riflecorps?

Shit like this existed before. As long as they just give the old Riflelers a theme list as well, its fine.

They already have VERY different UAs that allow them to do very different stuff:

Long Gunners remain accurate and reposition, and these new guys Deal better damage (Through damage rerolls) and get marksman.

Relax people.

>>53685360

My concern with that is it feels a bit limiting.

I'd lean more towards 'You get to be a focuser on top of whatever else you got'. Especially with the RPG having class pairs required to access some stuff.

>>53687263
>Winter Guard Riflecorps?
There is no unit called "Generic Khador Rifle Corps" in addition to "Winter Guard Rifle Corps".

>>53685298
Then don't buy them?

>>53687284
Beds talking about Winter Guard infantry and rifle Corp numb nuts

>>53687371
No shit, really?

>trenchers nicking more ideas straight from khador
mildly upset

The trencher lieutenant is a cool idea, though.

>>53687376
Yeah! Really!

>>53687426
That's just what you get for not playing the poster boy faction.

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>>53687459
gas the swans

>>53687500
I almost want to skip MOW completely, and get right over to the AK theme force book.

>>53687500
Is that AK wearing eyeliner?

>>53687587
they probably realized how similar the AK theme would be to the Trencher one, and didn't want to put them back to back

>>53687752
not to mention that AK's jobs are to kill trenchers.

>>53687638
Yup. Because shes worth it.

>>53687802

A MOW theme force would be about as Crippling for Trenchers DESU.

>>53687802
Yeah, I dunno what they were thinking. Warmachine going full inna trench for a bit would be pretty great.

>>53681823
>females in iron kingdoms are smaller, thus have less muscle mass, thus weaker
>NO, WOMEN CAN DO EVERYTHING MEN CAN AND OFTEN BETTER! HURDIDURDIDURR NOT LISTENING TO YOUR LOGIC! t: pps writers

>>53688095
Take your meds.

>>53687215
I have zero issues with themes. In the long run it will have far more variety. We do need more for all the factions and maybe a pass over some of the less inspiring ones but in my mind this is a good way forward.

As to my other comment when all the models are available there are easily identifiable tiers which means that most ppl go straight for the top ones.
The themes will help put underused models in the table at least in theory.

>>53688182
>In the long run it will have far more variety.
I will believe that once I see it. So far the evidence is against it. But I hope you are right.

>As to my other comment when all the models are available there are easily identifiable tiers
That is why units need to be designed to fill niches. For example, having two units that "shoot guys" is bad design while having a unit that "shoots from behind and repositions to get into nasty locations" (Crowe's) an a unit that "slowly advances up while shooting and laying down clouds" (Trencher Infantry) is good design. You don't need themes for that.

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>>53687500
fire fire fire!

>>53685257
This, its a nitro express double rifle. The .450 was used in WW1 in limited amounts to take out snipers behind gun shields.

>>53688182

I'd be more interested in themes if they played more with available units.

Like the old Khador list that let you take that Lhaelese light warjack. Stuff like that rather than 'A subset of the faction normally'.

Make a merc one that lets you take a few Ios units with a couple of the more seeker-friendly warcasters as a merc rather than retribution as a seeker expeditionary force or such.

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>>53687500
Gas the swans!

>>53676603
You mean 2-3 iterations? The rules are updated once a week and the cycles are usually only 3 weeks.

>>53689250
>2-3 iterations
Only if the feedback is """very positive""".

>>53688603
The minis look great but fuck,that's a boring terrain

>>53689446
Ironically, that's old WHFB terrain.

>>53689530
That is pretty ironic. Also, I gotta say a part of me likes the concept of themes as its like infinity sectorials.

>>53687352
That will be a problem if enough people get tired/fed-up with all the #designspace.

>>53689575
Which seems to be the case right now. At least I'm not hearing too much enthusiasm over the topic.

>>53687587
After Strakhov 2 I'd say fuck mow theme, give us kommando strike force.

THEMES SHOULD BE COMPLETELY PREMADE LISTS

DISCUSS

>>53689680
But they are.

>>53689695
NIGGER I MEAN 100% PREMADE

>>53689702
Is they illusion of choice the same as choice?

Themes seem to be more like mini factions inside of factions.
I think it's a lot easier to think of it that way.

{spoiler}dummy post{/spoiler}

>>53690031
Anon, not {spoiler}

>>53689575

But it's so funny anon! They even made a nerf bat with the words #DESIGNSPACE on it! hahahaha! Enjoy your vanilla boring shit with renamed units to sell you, fucking GIT GUD NOOB! hahahaha!

>>53689996
That's basically how I've been thinking of them, particularly when it came out that Minions and Mercs weren't getting command books but instead being theme books from now on.

What stops Trencher Long Gunners just replacing Long Gunners? You only get the former in a Trencher army, not in a larger Cygnar army.

>>53690162
Did anyone actually take Farrow and Gatormen units as actual minions and not in Thornfall/Blindwater

>>53689568

Since when does Infinity give you free shit for playing in a Sectorial.

Sectorials actually play different because they give you access to different play styles. This is just spam and free shit.

>>53690152
>They even made a nerf bat with the words #DESIGNSPACE on it!
Well that one is fanmade.

>>53690283
Fair point but I think that was the intent of theme forces, they just suck at implenting them.

>>53690283
>Since when does Infinity give you free shit for playing in a Sectorial.
This. Themes should just be different unit selections with small benefits to make up for restrictions. Not this boring repetitive trite.

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>>53690196
>Anonymous 06/08/17(Thu)06:53:14 No.53690
As a Troll player (who thus has the most numerous options in Hordes when it comes to Minions and Mercs) I remember thinking at the start of Mk. 3:

"Wow... I have no reason to take Minions anymore. None of my buffs can affect them and/or they aren't as good as most in-faction options."

That feeling is still with me today. Minions are just their own faction, they just have no place in a VAST majority of non-Minion lists, which is ridiculous.

This #designspace is all over the place.

>>53690359
It doesn't help that Minions are vastly inferior to Mercs when it comes to shit other factions might want. Compare the Bog Trog Mist Speaker to Madelyn Corbeau. One can cast Influence, the other tells all melee models on the field to suck a fat black dick. Where's the fucking trade off here?

>>53690398
>Compare the Bog Trog Mist Speaker to Madelyn Corbeau
I don't see why you would compare them. They could hardly be less similar.

>tfw played AKs before they were cool
zzz

>>53690414
>I don't see why you would compare them. They could hardly be less similar.
Go ahead, find me a Minion solo comparable in power to Madelyn Corbeau.

>>53690431
Orin Midwinter. Sorry, he's a lot better.

>>53690440
I've stopped taking him in Skorne because I'm sick of him being a useless piece of shit that does nothing then dies.

>>53690461
He's been doing so much work for me. But I also stopped taking him because I'm usuall quite strapped for points. I'll probably get him back into my Mak2 list as the Agonizer there is not really performing consistently. Even in matchups where I don't have to fear the spell assassination just having a Chain Lightning that can boost to-hit is useful.

Themes have been broken for Orin. In Khador. That's how good he is.

>>53690422
AKs have always been cool, though

>>53689292
No, always. The cycle length is predetermined and announced before the cycle starts.

>>53689250
>>53689292
>>53690570
This CID is only going to be two weeks, they're going to update faster rather than weekly

>>53690634
>They're going to release new card packs
>They're going to buff/nerf every 6 months
>They're going to use a new system called CID
>They're going to make CID better
Right.

>>53690654
Well if everything is so fucking terrible why don't you just kill yourself and do us all a favor
Fucking Christ

>>53690683
>t. Jason Soles

(spoiler)bump(/spoiler)

>>53690683

>Don't criticize my game, I'm emotionally tied to this company, I've spent too much money traveling and on armies for you to criticize it

The Post

>>53690654
They literally stated this is what they're doing for this CID process.

It's two weeks and they will be updating everyday if necessary. Sorry?

>>53691193
In 24 hours they're going to get enough feedback to make changes?

>>53691355
If something is horribly broken maybe

>>53691374
>If something is horribly broken maybe
It took them 7 months to errata Skorne though

>>53690461
>>53690500

It's hard out there for support solos.

There are games where I find myself staring bug-eyed at the table and thinking "if I only freed up the 3 points for an Extoller this would be so much easier".

There are games where I find myself staring bug-eyed at the table and thinking "if I only freed up the 4 points for a Mortitheurge this would be so much safer".

>There are games where I find myself staring bug-eyed at the table and thinking "if I only freed up the 5 points for Orin... they'd probably have killed him before doing this or targeted a model in the unit more than 3 inches from him. I wonder what Marketh could have gotten done by this point..."

>>53690654
>>53691193
Also, plans change? Is there something wrong with updating your business strategy once you realize your previous methods weren't going to cut it?

For what it's worth they are still doing dynamic updates and errata every six months. The next one is supposed to drop sometime between now and LNL.

>>53691355
Possibly. They have a ton of people looking at this and working on it. They're not going to update every day for the next two weeks but they will be updating a lot more than previously

You can watch the live stream they did yesterday if you want to see them talk about the process yourself

>>53691461
It takes time to playtest a whole faction?

>>53691494
I thought the next errata was suppose to release after lock and load

>>53691355

Massively parallel, anon. It works out. In like a day they got the near-equivalent of a week of in-house playtesting. The guys doing it aren't pitching in details at meetings, but it's a service they'd otherwise be cutting paychecks for and trying to get as much of as feasible.

>>53691488
This is my entire problem with Skorne right now. We can't put anything problematic on the table, so we're forced to react. Know what happens when you try and play reactively and pick the wrong list? You get stomped. Playing Skorne is like playing list chicken non-stop, but your prize for winning is a balanced game.

>>53691494
I'm none of the other guys.

I dropped out of warmahordes a bit before Mk3 was announced, moved over to the RPG for a bit and kinda forgot about the company for a year as things seemed to go to shit. They got my attention again with all the changes they're making, so whilst I've got concern (my experiences trying to get back into the game have been pretty fucked so far), I'm trying to be optimistic because I wanna see PP improve.

As for the CID update thing, I fully expect the team has a couple variants of the rules sitting and waiting to roll out for testing, it now being easier for them to throw things at a wall and have the community tear it to shit than test internally for 6 months and then roll it out to find it doesn't work.

>>53691594
>As for the CID update thing, I fully expect the team has a couple variants of the rules sitting and waiting to roll out for testing, it now being easier for them to throw things at a wall and have the community tear it to shit than test internally for 6 months and then roll it out to find it doesn't work.

This is pretty much exactly how it works

>>53691594
This place is a bit of an echo chamber of negative reinforment. The only people who post here seem to be infinity shills or Troll/Skorne players with a chip on their shoulders.

>>53691680
I figured it would be something like that, any kind of community involvement with testing seems to result in a lot more dev content, but outsourcing all testing to the public. It's god advantages, and disadvantages.

>>53691692
I've been getting that vibe from most places though. I'm of the opinion that PP royally shit the bed with the Mk3 rollout and they've taken nearly a year to try and recover. They haven't yet, but they've been taking a few steps that I'm liking, I hope it all pans out for them. It's not gonna be easy getting people back on board though, we tend to get pretty rabid about company loyalty and when you get jilted you rarely recover. It doesn't help that nearly every warmahordes player I know already had a bad breakup with GW so they're already spiteful and doomy

>>53691692
Hey I'm a Troll player and I don't have a chip on my shoulder
Mostly cause I started in MK3

>>53691782
I've just been getting into the game again and I'm curious how you're finding Warmachine vs Hordes matches. I'm trying Hordes side now and I can't help but feel we got the short end of the stick with fury management and bigger battlegroups vs power up

>>53691893
Warmachine gets higher ARM, more boxes, and cheaper heavies. Hordes gets expensive heavies, and support models that try to negate their weaker statlines. It's points supporting points on top of points.

>>53691782

>Started Trolls in Mk 3

I'm sorry anon.

>>53691692
>This place is a bit of an echo chamber of negative reinforment.

Or maybe the game is bad and people just want to see it get better.

>>53691893
Beasts tend to be more flexible and wierdly more resilient than jacks though. They often have more attacks available to them, higher fury caps (most jacks, light or heavy cap at 3, while heavy beasts almost always cap at 4 or 5, unless they're "discount heavies" like satyrs or rhinodons"). Beasts tend to have a greater amount of power attacks open to them, as they have dual attack and two open fists in higher quantities than jacks, and tend to have more chain attack abilities.

Beasts never suffer the effects of crippled systems, as the warlock can just heal them on the fly and from a distance away, and the crippled systems on a beast never debilitate it in terms of survivability (unlike a jack who can lose a shield or movement quite easily and thus become easier to destroy as you beat up on it). Of course beasts cost a bit more than their jack counterparts (compare the stock jacks like ironclads and juggernauts to horses stock beasts like maulers and gladiators.) so that's a tradeoff for hordes for sure. They also give your caster spells to cast, which jacks dont do. Now watch hordes babbys come and say that I'm wrong and that maulers and gladiators should be 8 points because they're sooo bad and nobody takes them.

>>53692437
They get the next batch of goodies with Northkin. So at long last Christmas comes to trolls.

>>53692486
B-b-but muh titans defense went down to 10

>>53692486
>maulers and gladiators should be 8 points because they're sooo bad and nobody takes them.

As a Troll player, one of my lists start with a Mauler and a Krielstone. Every time.

Because if I don't have Rage available to me with Stone Strength/Armor, I'll just lose to certain matchups.

Tell me how good of design that is?

>>53692546

Haha, we'll see. Unless they fix 50% of the faction that never gets played because it's so obviously costed inappropriately or something else just does it beetter.

It's always one update away!

>>53691692
I gotta admit that Skorne whiners kept me away from this general for months.

>>53692600

Don't make fun, it's making the new ADR harder than it needs to be. Archidons just don't hold a line and titan spam under Mordikaar could probably tank a full Khador alpha with feat up if they had two more DEF and then roll on just with their natural PS.

>>53692486
>Beasts never suffer the effects of crippled systems
Plenty of effects prevent healing. Cryx can do it on a whim with undercosted models like Stalkers.

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>>53692747
They never went away, they just found new things to constantly bitch about. "Wah this one caster I like isn't as competitive as other Skorne casters! Wah we don't have a command book out yet! Wah we don't have as many themes as other factions, but also themes are garbage and cancer game design (until we get them and then they're golden)!"

>>53690683
You sound like a fella who enjoys dropping the soap and bending over again and again and again...

>>53692798
those effects affect warmachine as well, you nit. It's just our balsa wood jacks (wah trollblood beasts are so weak despite having the exact same def/arm/boxes as golden boy Cygnar's stuff!) get even more easy to destroy when hitting them magically makes their armour drop by 2 and their defense drop to fucking 5. What's that you roll one less die to hit on your seemingly infinite number of attacks? cry me a fucking river hordes babby.

>>53692893

Playing points down, oddly enough, sucks and Mordikaar still has skornergy (and I don't mean how Spirit Taker is nixed by both Void Spirits and Manifest Void). God alone knows how to use Manifest Void properly, he's got Revive, his feat is best with infantry and he only really runs one unit of that. Arcane Suppression is on his character beast who is load-bearing for his *actual* trick (Void Spirit infantry table-clearing), so no sane way to get board presence for that.

The problem with Mordikaar isn't that he isn't competitive (who the hell knows), the problem is trying to play him is liable to give you a brain aneurysm.

>>53692768
>my stuff should be able to survive a full alpha
>what good is a game that I can lose?
There we go. Typical skorne entitlement.

>>53693038
wow your faction has a bad caster. good for you, go grab a cookie. Skorne is so unique and special for being the only faction in the game with a caster that's not very good.

>>53691494
They had "3 years" to get it right, and how long has mk3 been out by now as beta game? They've had all the fucking time they need, I would suggest looking elsewhere for cause of problems.

>>53693100

He used to work quite well. Makes it egregious, so people notice. Also he's on the ADR this season.

>>53693095

My feat that DEF-buffs and breaks up attack-buy chains should be useful against the first turn of enemy contact, yes.

>>53691692
Almost as if other people have stopped playing and those who still do find game less than interesting?

>>53693225
But its usually not in a manner of "I don't like this" its "THIS IS BAD".

I very much like everything about MKIII, and the rose tinted MKII lovers can go suck a lemon.

>>53693153
Does the word, "bawwwww" mean anything to you?

>>53692974
>those effects affect warmachine as well, you nit
You said it yourself, the ability to self heal is one of the strengths of warbeasts. Losing it hurts warbeasts far more.

>>53693268
"I very much like everything about MKIII..." ok, have fun with "everything" then, that's a pretty broad field of liking things.

>>53693323
They don't really affect hordes stuff more, as the effects of crippled systems (in those rare instances where they happen) are like slaps on the wrist for a beast (oh I get one less die to hit? Etc), whereas crippled systems on jacks take immediate effect on your opponents turn and make your now def 5 armour 16 warnoun that much easier to scrap then their always 12/20 beast.

>>53693311

This is starting to come across as a hysterical inability to recognize problems. Effort and change has resulted in confusion and not much else; ADR means that some people are doing something other their normal reaction- simply avoiding the matter.

I am just getting into warmahordes, and so far I really like the lore of this setting. What is the best way to read up what has happened so far in the overall story? Is there any collection of lore to be found?

>>53693399
Just so you know, a SR17 objective can heal a heavy for 1 box at the start of your turn. Crippled what now?

>>53693458
Unfortunately there isn't a great compilation, but if you go to the paste in up top I think they have most of the old rulebooks where the continuing lore was published. Now it's all novels from skullislandx.com

>>53693458
The Iron Kingdoms Roleplaying Game book has a ton of lore, and the supplement Gods, Nations and Kings goes into a lot more depth in certain areas. I'd recommend reading them both.

Getting updates on the 'in game' story is harder. That stuff is stretched through multiple books. I'd recommend reading stuff from the Forces books for the factions you're interested in to get up to date on where they are and what their characters have done.

I think most of this stuff should be in the OP.

>>53693464
He's talking about the fact that a warjack can lose it's shield, can lose it's def value, and the loss of a cortex is a much bigger deal than the lost of spirit on a beast.

>>53693861
>>53693861
NEW THREAD
FOXHOLE BUDDY

>>53693323
So play around it Rust bombs, disruption and similar effects are available to hate on jacks, so having access to beast-hate is somehow unfair? Wat.

>>53690570
>The cycle length is predetermined and announced before the cycle starts.
That wasn't the case for SR17.

>>53691551
>We can't put anything problematic on the table, so we're forced to react.
Allow me to laugh at how fucking stupid that is. Take a look at the Nordish Masters (Germany) finals if you need any help with list buiilding.

>>53693399
Wow. Those numbers are so grossy over/under-stated it's not even funny anymore. Sorry about your 10p heavies not beeing perfect.