/WMG/ Warmachine and Hordes General

First for the infantry meta coming back

>>53582231

Ret's in kind of a weird place for themes, since so much Ret tech is focused on delivering Sentinels, and Sentinels aren't in any theme.

And then they just released a bunch of new Ryssovass models... and no theme for them. In the book that published two new themes.

So, I dunno. Cygnar's getting a Trencher theme, so all of their "types" of infantry get in at least one theme (well, depending on how the theme treats Long Gunners), so I'd have to imagine Dawnguard and Nyss themes will exist at some point.

>>53584110
Dawnguard theme and Nyss Refugees theme are only a matter of time away though.

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Looks like we'll be getting some Stranglight Workshop models in the future.

Did this game really die? I wanted to try getting into it, but the playerbase nearby has shrunk and I have heard that there are a lot of issues.

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>>53584240

>>53584247
>Did this game really die?

It's far from dead. It had a rocky period in the changeover to Mk3, though, and people love to complain constantly.

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Post units/models you think are criminally underrated
>with UA, gigantic threat range (6+3+2+2=13" threat range)
>can slaughter units with cleave (Fell Caller can make this even better)
>potential 3 (3!) attacks per turn
>Under Band of Heroes, can fuck over Ghost Fleet/any army that has a lot of tough infantry (like say new Trencher theme coming up)

>>53585775
You forgot
>Good against the new Khador/Troll BEs

>>53585775
I've got a unit of these guys already, should I buy another? I've also got the Kithkar and plan on buying the Fell Caller Hero, should I not and buy the UA instead?

Should I hold off until we get a sweet northkin theme like I originally planned?

>>53586888
Uh I don't think that's really important.
>>53586938
I dunno, I think two units might be a bit overkill. These guys are basically laser guided infantry removal.
Get both the UA and Fell Caller, the UA gives No Quarter (+2" to charge and pathfinder) and Cleave (the first time they kill a unit during their activation, they get to make another attack). The Fell Caller actually make the Fennblades more accurate than the Kithkar and he's got more general utility than the Kithkar (hands out pathfinder, allows infantry to get from knockdown, and gives bonus MAT).

>>53585775
>>53587058
Really I'd say the only issue with them is that they can't do jack to heavies. (and to a lesser extent lights).
Non-weapon master POW 12 isn't gonna be cracking armor anytime soon.

>>53584247

It's pretty dead or dying. Most of the middle gamers have left for Infinity, Malifaux, Guild, etc.

What you have left are the hardcore con goers, the new guys that don't know any better and the people on the verge of leaving.

Makes me sad but I blame PP. Your player base shrinking is the norm, although there are exceptions.

>>53585775

They aren't underrated. Underrated means people don't appreciate or take them. They're usually the first melee infantry Trolls reach for (If they reach for any). Madrak 2 runs them ok.

It also helps Kriel Warriors are an example of shitty and boring design, Pygs are ass, etc. So really they don't have much to compete with. But regardless, they're ok.

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>>53587533
How do we fix Kriel Warriors? I really wish I could use these guys, I love them thematically.
Honestly it's a little strange that they fell off so hard, if anything they got even better at their jamming role with unyielding.
Oh yeah tough nerf LMAO

>>53587655
Oh yeah and the caber thrower got Single Shot, even after the prayers went away.
Fucking WHY?

Anyone happen to have a pdf of No Quarter #72? The pastebin in the OP is sorely out of date, and I haven't seen anything in the last couple of threads though it is possible I'm blind as a bat.

>>53585775
>potential 3 (3!) attacks per turn
How are you getting that? They have one attack plus the one potential Cleave attack

>>53584247
It's still the second or third largest have in the industry. Check out your local area and see what people are playing.

The best thing you can do after that is get away from the online community asap its just constant bitching from people who don't play the game anymore

>>53588740
Vengeance+Initial+Cleave

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>big dick elf general is a falconer
>he has special bird powers
Sign me the fuck up

>>53589666
Both versions of him are super good too.

>>53589666
he also rides horses

>>53589704
>>53589709
Looking at his other abilities, both modes are meant for melee builds. Good thing Griffons are awesome.
How good is sniping through trees with bird-o-vision for fun on the side?

>>53589780
Decently. Ret jacks have decent guns, though the range is usually an issue (which plays into the forest thing).

His personal and utterly powerful Jack - Imperatus - can sometimes just hang around behind a forest and shoot with his fire gun, until something gets close and he cleaves it into a million pieces, by charging through the forest with Mobility and a free charge.

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>>53589929
Something like this, then. Discordia goes well with everybody, right?

I'm going to a local Steamroller tomorrow and I'm taking this. Wish me luck faggots!

(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
- Archidon [10]
- Archidon [10]
- Cyclops Raider [9]
- Despoiler [19]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Void Spirit [4]
Void Spirit [4]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Bunker (Objective) [0]

>Specialists
Basilisk Krea [7]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Gremlin Swarm [3]
Gremlin Swarm [3]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Paingiver Bloodrunners [9]


(Zaadesh 2) Lord Tyrant Zaadesh [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Aradus Soldier [16]
- Archidon [10]
- Archidon [10]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Cataphract Cetrati (max) [18]
- Tyrant Vorkesh [6]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Bunker (Objective) [0]

>Specialists
Basilisk Krea [7]
Bronzeback Titan [18]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]

>>53584247
Not really dead, but in a interesting spot. Dead games are dead. Nobody talks about them.

>>53584247

Dead is a strong word.

Sliding off into the Abyss of irrelevancy is a better way to phrase it.

Could someone sum up where the plot went from Khador and Cygnar allying against the Cryx in the forest?

I've been in a coma.

>>53592649
After Cryx was defeated, Khador immediately tried to betray everyone else. There was a brief civil war in Cygnar which resulted in Magnus killing Vinter and Vinter's bastard son taking the throne with Leto as an advisor. Khador overextended itself and decided to regroup and made a truce with Cygnar. Cygnar agreed to let Khador keep Llaell on the condition that if an heir to the Llaellese throne was found, they had to give it back. Khador agreed cause they thought all the heirs were dead, but Cygnar secretly had an heir stashed away and used that as an excuse to launch an attack.

>>53592700
What happened to the elven ice god the Khadorans found?

Why havent the dragonfather won yet?

Why is the russian baba yaga now gaining an army for herself in Horde?

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>>53587690
>Fucking WHY?

MUH DESIGN SPACE ANON, WELCOME TO MK 3, HERE IS YOUR THEME LIST, TAKE 2 OF EACH OF THESE, TAKE 2 FREE SOLOS

>>53592649
Long story short
>Caine is off searching for his daughter (with the warcaster talent) with Watts and Ryan from the B13 in tow
>Magnus killed Vinter
>Julius is now king of Cygnar, Leto is an advisor, and he's decided to fuck Khador's shit up
>Julius is also engaged to the Princess of Llael which has Khador steamed as fuck
>Aiakos is now a king of the Scharde Isles near Cryx
>Vlad is married to the Empress
>Mordikaar is perma dead
>Goreshade was resurrected and blessed by Scyrah and joined Retribution
>elves kicked Skorne out of Ios
>Severius is perma dead (killed by Hexeris)
>Feora and Kreoss are about to have a civil war
>Nemo produced more lightning jacks
>Strakhov has gone full Metal Gear and is insanely strong now
>The Old Witch fucked off and unleashed people Menoth banished to Urcaen
>Madrak left to create a new home for the trollkin cause he was tired of Doomshaper's horseshit
>Morghoul took over a house in Skorne
>Haley traded the Athanc to a dragon who with other dragons decided to stop Toruk from destroying civilization
>Shae has come back from Zu
>Cryx is completely gone from the Thornwood
>Kallus became a better body using dragon parts
>Carver is being a warlord still
>Barnabas became a god

>>53593618
>Barnabas became a god

Holdup, what

>>53593935
Yeah there was a big massive fight between Farrow, Gatormen, and Trollbloods.
Caver killed Barnabas during said fight, but Barnabas wanted that to happen so he could drink the souls of the slain (or some such nonsense). So he resurrected and became a god.

>>53593234
The Retribution retook him from Zerkova before the Cryx forest fight.

Haley and Saeryn cut a deal with the strongest of Toruk's kids, giving him the athanc of the 'Champion' in exchange fpr protecting Cygnar from Toruk and leaving it alone himself and ignoring Everblight for awhile (I think on that last one).

Apparently she thinks it's necessary for some reason to unleash an army that hates Menoth and use it for her own purposes.

>>53592700
What people never seem to mention is that both Cygnar and Khador were attempting to screw each other over that Llael agreement. The beginning of Flashpoint: Acts of War is a relative to the Llaelese throne being murdered by Khadoran spies in Ord. Khador signed that agreement knowing that heirs existed, then went about hunting them all down and killing them. Princess whatsherface, future queen of Cygnar just happens to be the one heir that Cygnaran agents managed to save from Khador's murderous grasp.

That Khador backed out of the peace agreement after their douchebaggery failed shows how morally bankrupt that nation is.

>>53594393
Not really. The agreement was signed with both parties knowing that it would just be an excuse to start a war. Wither Khador would kill off all the heirs and Cygnar would be forced to find some new excuse or Cygnar would present one and Khador would claim that she isn't a real heir and that Cygnar was violating the spirit of the treaty.

>>53594393
>That Khador backed out of the peace agreement after their douchebaggery failed shows how morally bankrupt that nation is.

Yup that's what makes them interesting. Cygnar as interesting as Toast because it always passes on whatever responsibility it has of being dirty on something else.

>>53593234
>>53593618

Is that all Everblight's been doing with the story?

>>53594893
Aside from generally being an idiot? Yes.

>>53594948
Fuck. I don't mind Everblight being a short sided idiot with immense draconic power since that's the sort of shit I signed up for, but I don't know why PP has them as a main faction for Hordes while having less of a presence on the world that Minions and Grymkin.

>>53595085
Because he's either won or not.

Similarly to Cryx, he kinda has to loose otherwise either he conquers the world, or everybody else notices and shifts focus to killing him.

>>53595085
A poorly strategized "eat all the things for the blight god" crusade can only raze so many border settlements before they get kicked in the teeth by an actual army.

So is there a reason why the corrupter. Has its own special version of detonator?

>>53593234
>Why is the russian baba yaga now gaining an army for herself in Horde?

It's not really her army. She unleashed the Defiers in order to counter or delay something even worse (what exactly that is is unknown), but she doesn't command them. They're more like vaguely aligned. She's actually taken steps to reign them in as well, giving Holden a magic rifle and setting him up to oppose the Defiers.

>>53597604
>
burster has a bigger aoe and is critically "acid" typed so as to not harm your own army. Detonator is a spell effect off of like, shatterstorm, and has a smaller aoe but is magical damage.

The corrupter gets its own version to help in it's role as a support heavy and to incentive taking it for it's flexibility. Detonator seems worse in the vacuum of this comparison but comes as part of a model/UNIT upkeep.

Also, who the hell takes Corrupters?

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>>53597604
>>53597757
I couldn't even find cool art of this hunk of junk.

>>53595944
>or everybody else notices and shifts focus to killing him

It always makes me wonder what Cryx's living troops would do if Toruk ever reached a position where the other nations were forced to unite against him or die. I mean, if Toruk ever did conquer the mainland, it's not like he's going to need the Satyxis or Scharde Isles folk any longer, so they'd probably be next on the chopping block.

>>53597821
Undead-ing the world isn't like a chief goal of his, that's just an unintended consequence of his blight. I don't even think he has much of a goal in life besides "get all my anthanc back", which ain't likely to happen for him.

>>53597903
We all know that "Rule with an Iron Fist" follows closely therafter.

Blight is known to cause devotion in his subjects. Most of the mainland would warp into a twisted reflection of an ideal world, and maybe he plans to just sit on it and acquire worship. Maybe try to take over the celestial world.

Anyone remembers in which No quarter they had a painting guide for the horses of each faction?
Should be when Flamebringers and the light cav units where shown.

>>53598755
Not sure on the NQ but the actual book Vengeance had a horse painting guide, should be in the OP.

>>53598854
cheers will check it out

>>53593618

>Mordikaar is perma dead

Now do we know Mordikaar is truly gone?

> elves kicked Skorne out of Ios

I thought the Skorne simply left because the invasion was no longer viable?

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>>53594393

>future queen of Cygnar

If she marries Julius, doesn't that mean she ceases being the queen of Llael?

Also, I thought many in Llael preferred Khador's rule to that of the original monarchy, which was woefully inept by the time Khador kicked the door in and made the nation theirs?

Either way, I imagine there won't be much of a nation left by the time those two powers are done squabbling over it.

>>53599479
No, it's a Personal Union, she becomes the Queen of Llael and Julius becomes Prince Consort or whatever of Llael, while he'd be King of Cygnar and she would be his wife consort. Their heir becomes the leader of both Llael and Cygnar, but they would remain separate political entities until Cygnar integrates Llael, should they decide to do so. do you even eu4?

>>53589962
Could work I like running Helios with him, as the two were almost made for each other.

Relatively new player here, I just bought the legion mk3 battle box and was wondering where to go from there. I was thinking of picking up Abyslonia 2 because I've read that she's a good Warlock for having a ton of beasts, but I'm not sure what else to get. Any help would be appreciated

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>>53600969
Are you a part of the Legion Facebook group? Join up there for more specialized discussion. There's also the Battle College: http://battlecollege.org/index.php/Legion_of_Everblight which is a good resource for new players.

Proteus seems cool with her, and the new model is sweet looking. Running lots of heavies means you'll probably want a couple forsaken and maybe even a Hellmouth unit for threat extension.

>>53600969

>2 Forsaken
>2 Shepards
>1 Seraph/Neraph kit to magnetize, or at the least turn into a Seraph
>1 Carnivean kit to magnetize, or at least turn into a Carnivean
>Proteus
>Raek
>Naga Nightlurker
>1 or 2 Blighted Wasps, though only Abby2 will ever really use these so hold them off

If you plan to play in theme

>2 Nyss Sorceresses for Oracles of Annihilation, which is you might as well if you plan on going beast heavy and don't care about character beasts that aren't Proteus

If not

>Typhon
>1-2 Hellmouths

>>53601590
>>53601766
Aight thanks, I'll look into the Facebook group as well as Battle College and pick up the solos you mentioned

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bampo

Post ye non-standard colour schemes!

Doing infernal machines because im too snowflake for ghost fleet.

Caster suggestions aside Deneghra?

>>53603790
Allow me to do one better, here's a list, and why to take it:

https://conflictchamber.com/#c4201b_-0C0R1ff9i11KdQi11KdQi11KdQi11F1F

Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Infernal Machines (CID)

!!! Your army contains CID entries.
!!! You are using a pre-release theme.

(Goreshade 2) Goreshade the Cursed [+28]
- Nightwretch [7]
- Sepulcher [36]
Mechanithralls (CID) (max) [9]
- Brute Thrall (3) [6]
- Skarlock Commander [0(3)]
Mechanithralls (CID) (max) [9]
- Brute Thrall (3) [6]
- Skarlock Commander [3]
Mechanithralls (CID) (max) [9]
- Brute Thrall (3) [6]
- Skarlock Commander [3]
Mechanithralls (CID) (max) [9]
Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls [0(4)]
Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls [0(4)]

Mechanithrall unit without Skarlock Commander gains Ambush.

Alternatively,

https://conflictchamber.com/#c4201b_-0C0Rf9f0i11KdQi11KdQi11KdQi11K1F1F

Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Infernal Machines (CID)

!!! Your army contains CID entries.
!!! You are using a pre-release theme.

(Goreshade 2) Goreshade the Cursed [+28]
- Sepulcher [36]
Soul Trapper [1]
Mechanithralls (CID) (max) [9]
- Brute Thrall (3) [6]
- Skarlock Commander [0(3)]
Mechanithralls (CID) (max) [9]
- Brute Thrall (3) [6]
- Skarlock Commander [3]
Mechanithralls (CID) (max) [9]
- Brute Thrall (3) [6]
- Skarlock Commander [3]
Mechanithralls (CID) (max) [9]
- Brute Thrall (3) [6]
Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls [0(4)]
Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls [0(4)]

No Skarlock Commander unit gets Ambush.

Curse of Shadows fixes ARM question
Mirage can give threat extension
Hexblast for offensive upkeep/animi removal
Occultation as option
Sepulcher can return up to 3 mechinathralls or 1 brute per turn
Necrosurgeons can return up to 1 mechanithrall per turn
Necrosurgeons gain corpses for nearby mechanithralls dying
Skarlock Commanders give AD and animi/upkeep removal on unit
Brute Thralls shieldguard as needed or do heavy lifting

Most importantly, feat can be used to trade Mechanithralls for Brute Thralls.

>>53600969
Azrael.

Goddamit. Feminists are making their move on Lormahordes.

>>53606987
How so anon?

>>53587516
>Malifaux, infinity, gumball
>games that aren't even big enough to have a meta
Lol call MK3 a dead game all you want, I'm in a major city with multiple MK3 metas, and the only thing dead has been some game stores closing from shit management. Groups move around, maybe no one told you because they hated playing with you.

>>53606987
Probably people getting irritated about pun ups (again, like they do every year) and sperglords freaking out (again, like they do every year).

>>53607018
don't fall for easy bait anon

>>53606987
>>53607175
Every. Fucking. Year.
I still don't understand who they're trying to impress? What reasonable person (male OR female) gets honestly offended at pinup art? Are the fucking Puritans bitching about WMH online? Did the entire cities of Portland and San Fran decide to launch an online crusade in the name of social justice?

And why the shit does lormahordes still have an audience? It's filled with the worst people from the old forums. 4chan has better discussion, and we're all actually autistic.

>>53607287
You'll notice lormahordes is pretty dead and slow. Pretty much all conversation on the game has moved to the Facebook groups at this point.

>Pin ups
People want equal representation? It's not worth getting upset about and PP should really have done some male pin ups at this point. They're just pandering to what they think their base is

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>>53603633
Dunmer themed skorne

What would be a good color scheme to go with chocolate elf Ret, other than white?

>>53607639
Brown skin?
Dark blue armor, red leathers and capes
or
Tan/sand armor, gray leathers and white capes

>>53607507
I really like this anon, specifically the color you did the Skorne flesh. Any more pics?

>>53590272
SETTING OUT NOW FAGGOTS, HERE I GO

How many people need to participate in a Steamroller on order for it to be 'competitive'?

>>53607331
there is male pinups for the homo and femdom crowd m8, they're called fel reavers and Lady Z gimps.

Also the Gfur crowd with beasts. All of em.
Specially Satyrs.

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>>53608253
::)

>>53607331
>women and homosexuals are tiny minorities of the games remaining playerbase
>PP does the smart thing and focuses on marketing stuff for the majority they know they'll get money from, and occasionally giving the minorities a nod
>"WWWAAAAH ME WUNTS EQWUL REPRESENTASHUN!" (translated: I want only MY tastes catered to, and nobody else can have anything!)

>>53608965
and to add, I'm a fucking convergence player, so these "minorities" can go suck a rock into their mouths through their anuses.

How long until I can buy Rinnie?

Another newbie here, a friend just told me she's ordered a battlegroup for me to try the game with her since I've expressed interest from running the RPG. I'm getting the Legion battlegroup, and the old one since it was cheap and she figured 'hey, more dragons!'.

What kind of starting tactics should I be looking at with Kryssa and her lot? What about when I get to mix in the carnivean and more shredders? My friend is getting the same two boxes, but for Circle Orboros. Are there any specific things I should watch out for with Tannith and the differenves warpwolves and argus?

>>53598051
I don't think so. Toruk was around for a long while before he split his athanc and most of the worldis fine.

>>53606987
who the fuck cares what goes on in their containment forum?

>>53610182
We don't actually know how long, and we don't know what he was doing.

But the second he settled down and actually WANTED something, he poisoned an entire series of islands and created a society based upon corruption and blind subservience.

All of his progeny (Which are said to be reflections of him) are all ruthless conquerers.

>>53612225
are they? with the exception of Everblight (though he fits this pretty well even still) all the dragons we've seen seem to just hide in mountains and just do classic dragon things. There's no "dragon empires" besides Cryx, and even there Toruk just sits somewhere and doesn't do anything. Like there's Everblight who talks big about wanting to rule everything, but he is so inconsequential to the story and is seemingly limited to raiding bumfuck nowhere Khador towns and making elf waifus. What ruthless conquering was Pyromalfus doing hiding in a ruined castle? What tyranny does fucking Blighterghast do sitting on his ass in the Wyrmwalls? The only city raiding dragons seem to be the twins, and they can't even take a single city of a dying race. Dragons are canonically total jobbers that talk big but are ultimately just as worthless as all the other "ruthless conquerors" in setting. Fucking pigmen do more conquering than all dragon progeny combined.

>>53612897
It's also a case that every dragon plans to pound the other if they get out of line.

Maybe your right and Toruk would just fuck off into a deep Crevice once his Anthak is recovered...But something tells me otherwise.

Okay, so, what I learned from my Steamroller today is that Mordikaar is just shit.

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>>53617278
how'd your games go, anon?

>>53618903
>Round 1
Didn't know if I could buy attacks after sacrificing movement from Wurmwood's Strangleholds. Thought my opponent said I could, turns out after I'd activated everything else that I couldn't. Still only just lost. Zaadesh's feat is fucking brutal.
>Round 2
Thyra and more infantry than Zaadesh can handle. Couldn't bring out Mordikaar because his other list was Durst.
>Round 3
Thought fuck it and used Mordikaar, played like I didn't give a fuck, ended up winning. Model D in my Ferox unit was a fucking hero though holy shit. He sat there with nothing but tough from a Willbreaker and proceeded to tank an entire Mountain King activation. Every single attack either missed, or got a passed tough roll. Like holy shit. Then next turn the Mountain King frenzied, went on the same Ferox, hit, and he passed tough again. By this time my feat was up and the rest of his board just couldn't deal with my shit now that his Mountain King had been rendered useless by dice rolls.

Even though Mordikaar was my only winning caster, it felt like I was having to shoehorn Zaadesh into matches because I knew Mordikaar had zero chance. Methinks Makeda1/Rasheth will do much better in the future.

>>53619194
Sorry it was my action I sacrificed to Stranglehold, not movement.

>>53619194
What was your mordikaar list like? Just playing 2 units of kitkats and some void spirits with like Archidons or something for beasts seems really strong with him. Archidons are really strong assassination pieces, especially with the high defense feat/ ghost walk up.

>>53619484
(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
- Archidon [10]
- Archidon [10]
- Cyclops Raider [9]
- Despoiler [19]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Void Spirit [4]
Void Spirit [4]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]

The Nihilators are to force my opponent into a catch-22 situation where they're forced to deal with them, but dealing with them feeds Mordikaar fury next turn, letting everything else go for assassination. The list works as planned, the problem is more that Mordikaar is just an impotent caster. He can't beat high ARM casters because it mitigates so much of his Essence Blast damage, he can't assassinate when your opponent's caster has a good amount of transfers, he can't crack ARM at-fucking-all. Just no. If everyone was playing nice well rounded lists with a little bit of everything he'd be fine. But while ARM skews can be fielded, he just can't. Even when your opponent doesn't have high ARM anywhere he's still only a fair game.

Is it me or does the Sea King seem like it should have had two operational pirate cannons on that derelict wreck on it's back?

>>53621118
Didn't mean to reply to you, >>53618903, I misclicked.

>>53620965
It really should have a whelp or pyg crew and a worse mouth gun. It should also be priced like the other two Troll gargossals.

just going through the battle college khador stuff...

is there actually a difference in Sorscha1 and Sorscha2, aside from pose?

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>lost an eye
>gained a point of MAT

what did they mean by this?

I haven't played since, like, six months prior to Mk 3 being a thing, what's the new meta like these days?
Theme lists still cancer?
New casters being either bullshit or worthless?
Are low model-count armies viable in Mk 3 or is it troopmachine all over again?

>>53621936
Eyeless sight, Jarl having black penny.

accuracy in WMH is inversely proportional to the number of eyes you have.

>>53589666
He also just got BTFO by Elf Hitler.

>>53621936
he's iron kingdom's big boss

>>53608965
Gonna be honest, I'm neither gay nor an intersectional femingender whatever, but I kinda want a male pinup purely for the fun of it.

None of the pinups are actually sexy, and if you're jerking it to them you have a legit problem. They're basically just jokes.

>>53622155
sexy(er) thyron is a model I could get behind

>>53617278

You could've just asked and I would've just told you he's a trashcan.

>>53619484

It's not. The Ferox don't do enough work with him and Revive is fucking awful now. Mordikaar doesn't enable his army enough to actually get work done on the board, so subpar Skorne infantry doesn't do enough to be viable.

Then he offers pretty much nothing in the department of beast support, so they don't get alot done.

Basically everything does about nothing and you spend the whole game thinking "gee if I was playing a decent caster right about now this army would actually be winning."

>>53619484

It's like yeah you could play Mordikaar and chain revive Ferox over and over as they die and do nothing turn after turn because they're not allowed to activate (Thanks Cryx players for getting Skorne nerfed because of your bullshit, really appreciate that).

Orrrrr...

You could play a Makeda and they don't die in the first place.

And she's actually got some useful buffs for them at the same time.

>>53624004
yeah, ok. play Mak2 instead then, she's probably a better caster for the army style you want to run. You don't need to get into character in order to play Skorne, there's no need to be a masochist and do things you don't find fun.

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So I've heard people refer to Champions (and to a lesser extent weapon master units) as armor crackers and I don't get it.
How is pow 10/11 supposed to crack armor? 4 dice on the charge is neat, but that's still a honking number of damage reduced. Maybe I'm think of the wrong type of armor, cause my thoughts go to heavy jacks.

>>53626258
PS11 Weapon Master can put damage on anything ARM 20 or below at statistical average. They're also sturdy as fuck in melee.
They're not going to scrap a heavy guaranteed on a charge, but worse case scenario they'll tarpit the hell out of one and prevent it from dealing with anything else.

>>53603633
This picture got me thinking, if I was a warjack, what weapon combo would I want? Would I have a melee weapon and a gun, or two open fists, or maybe a shield? There are so many combinations worth trying.

>>53626607
Big O fists or bust.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GlOoIMd9524
I wish the Hydra had beat back or something to go with its pleasantly huge fists so I could justify using it in a melee role

>>53612053
>who the fuck cares what goes on in their containment forum?
I do. Because it was actually good for a few weeks. It showed some real promise. But now we are back to the same old bullshit. It's a shame really.

>>53623208
Why does everyone seem to want shirtless Thyron?

Do we even know what he looks like?

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>>53626607
Two-handed fuckhueg sword. Who needs the second fucking initial anyway?

In a similar vein... If you guys were warcasters, what Feat would you want to have?

>>53612897
>>53619218
My takeaway with the dragons is basically that they are their own nuclear deterrent (as well as being radioactive). One dragon doesn't get uppity, because if something happens and they're exposed, the others will pounce and tear them apart to consume their athanc. Before they learned caution, the sky rained blood from their battles as Toruk hunted them each down, until they managed to unite against him. If one grew strong enough that the others were no longer a threat, they would cover empires with their shadow for daring to crawl out of the holes that lesser species belong in.

>>53627845
Thyron is a virgin. It is known.

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>>53599479
>Also, I thought many in Llael preferred Khador's rule to that of the original monarchy, which was woefully inept by the time Khador kicked the door in and made the nation theirs?
YOU ARE OF BEING CORRECT IN EXACTLY COMRADE.

>>53622074
Warjacks are so good there have even been complaints about too many.

Still infantry or mixed armies still exist, and pp has taken a much more active role in balancing the game.

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Just sharinbg useless shelfwarming models pics

>>53627891
From feats that exist in game already? Probably morghoul2 blackout.

Made-up? Jeeze anything that hoses enemies is top-pick.

>>53599479
>>53628085
But that's only some of the llaelese.

As a whole, quality of life has gone down, and famine/ food rationing has become a part of their citizens daily life.

While the original monarchy and "nobility" were woefully inept and corrupt to the core, at the very least they seemed to do things for their people just to keep them pacified and not in open revolt. The Khador occupation and administration force is just brutally killing people or shipping those who voice concerns to work in remote slave camps.

>>53627891
Warjacks can't use two-handed weapons. It has something to do with the cortex, I think.

>>53628541
>As a whole, quality of life has gone down, and famine/ food rationing has become a part of their citizens daily life.
Source?

>>53624004
Well I'm using Makeda1 with Ferox and Swordsmen now.

>>53599479
>Also, I thought many in Llael preferred Khador's rule to that of the original monarchy
>>53628541
>But that's only some of the llaelese.

Specifically, it's the Llaelese Umbreans, who Vlad gives special treatment.

Everyone else in Llael hates Khador.

>>53628727
Kings, Nations and Gods. The destruction of Riversmet alone caused a chain reaction of famine and destitution that killed many and filled the streets of other towns with homeless. Resources are prioritized to the military, too, so the common man in Llael often goes hungry.

>>53629284
It should also be noted that the Khadoran colonists that have been enticed to start up business in Llael are basically being given preferential treatment and are pushing the native Llaelese out of business and finance. They're also given preference when it comes to rationing.

Khador is more efficient than the old monarchy, but it's efficiently screwing over the Llaelese.

>>53629284
>Kings, Nations and Gods.
Page?

I can't find any evidence. It just says it continues to be "Meh".

>>53629878
Another alternative source were a couple of the skull island publications books that have segments in llael, as well as the short story for the mercenary journeyman warcaster.

>>53629902
Rule of thumb: If the fiction can make Cygnar any more painfully "Good" they would be shitting Baby bunnies.

>>53630083
You're not wrong, but at least there are people like Magnus and Rebald to ever-so-slightly tip the scales in the other direction.

>>53626258
They're pow 12 with Krielstone which roughly equates to pow 16 which is bare minimum for 5-man unit to kill arm 19 heavy or cripple arm 20 heavy on a charge without caster buff.

>>53630083
Khador is a villain faction, why are you expecting good things out of them?

>>53626258

5 boosted POW 15s kill an ARM19 heavy on average results. POW12 with Stone Weapon master is equivilant of a POW15, and Weapon masters get 2 attacks each. So they fuck up most heavies even without caster support.

>>53630557
They are villains by being aggressors by default. They are authoritative, and willing to do just about anything for victory. But they're not supposed to be SKORNE.

I thought them being just dicks at war, and alright at home made them neat. Them MUHAHAING and doing illogical shit for the sake of "TEH EVULZ" just does bug me.

And would bug me less if Cygnar wasn't so wishy-washy, and bland as tar. They get everything handed on a Silver plate, and lack any sort of edge, or darkside.

>>53628910

Swordsmen, Ferox, Legends of Halaak.

Mammoth+CID Danger turtle is also pretty legit with pMakeda. Danger turtles in general are great with her they like Quicken and benefit from her feat alot.

>>53631107
Yeah the Legends after there too.

>>53629284

>The destruction of Riversmet alone caused a chain reaction of famine and destitution that killed many and filled the streets of other towns with homeless.

On top of the destruction and carnage the Butcher, Fenris, Yuri and the Doom Reavers caused.

I think Vlad and Harkevich have been the only ones who haven't been causing excess destruction in Llael.

>>53630557

To be honest, I wasn't aware there were any "hero" factions.

I think I've seen and read of pretty much every Iron Kingdom and the rest of the nations in Immoren doing things that are sketchy at best.

Not one of them has a sterling reputation in the history books as I recall.

>>53631088

> lack any sort of edge, or darkside.

Didn't one of Cygnar's Queens or their church put a curse on the Tharn?

Didn't they also persecute Menites in recent times under Leto?

On top of that, wasn't Leto's brother one of the worse Tyrants Cygnar has ever known, and the man who brought the Skorne to Western Immoren?

I think it's also said that Cygnar may or may not have sold out their Khardic allies during the Orogoth occupation.

I'm sure there is a bunch of other things in the lore that would make Cygnar look less flattering once you look at it.

>>53631088
>I thought them being just dicks at war, and alright at home made them neat.

Except Khador has always been presented as an oppressive, relatively thuggish regime.

>Them MUHAHAING and doing illogical shit for the sake of "TEH EVULZ" just does bug me.

I wouldn't say using terror tactics and ancient death magic is illogical, but it should certainly show that Khadoran command is morally bankrupt as can be. The point of Khador is that they're so asshurt over all the other nations existing that they'd rather risk mutual destruction than let western Immoren be ruled by anyone not Khadoran.

>And would bug me less if Cygnar wasn't so wishy-washy, and bland as tar. They get everything handed on a Silver plate

Cygnar has spent literally the entire fluff up until now losing ground.

>>53631579
>Didn't they also persecute Menites in recent times under Leto?

Yes, though technically it was Stryker doing this, and he basically pulled back when he realized the Protectorate was pushing him over the edge.

>On top of that, wasn't Leto's brother one of the worse Tyrants Cygnar has ever known, and the man who brought the Skorne to Western Immoren?

Yes.

>I think it's also said that Cygnar may or may not have sold out their Khardic allies during the Orogoth occupation.

Nah, that's literally just Khadoran propaganda.

Still, Cygnar's done plenty of other stuff wrong. The nobles basically used the Trollblood clans as convenient buffers against invading armies, twice, and repayed them by breaking all their old agreements set down during the Corvis Treaties, stealing their resources and land and forcibly relocating them whenever convenient. They also had a pretty terrifying inquisition operating under Vinter's reign, disappearing spellcasters and anyone he considered a dissident.

>>53631634
Sorta, It depends on the writer. If its Written for Cygnar, Khadorans will be choking on their spit in-between puppy lashing ceremonies, and mass grave burials for the abstract notion of suffering.

If its written from a Khadoran perspective its written as a really tough country that has to be rugged and tough to remain unified and survive, with willpower and

Cygnars still dull as toast.

Theoretically, it sends out mercenary squads to pretty much murder Khadoran Villages for no reason, Kills genius dissenters because they don't like work going into the hands of the enemy, and has squads of assassins "stabilizing" regions it likes.

But they are also a bullshit wonderland, where trolls and goblins and ogruns and humans where the smartest most awesome most inventive and creative people in the world gather around in order to sing songs.

But its so brutally segmented. It's like it all exists in different alternate dimensions and never interacts with one another.

But its not presented as a dark underbelly. Not a flipside of a coin. More like 2 coins in a wallet. And its not organic. Its not people making hard choices as much as there is a "Bad Side" and a "Good Side" and the bad sides never touched by the good side for no reason at all.

The closest that Cygnar HAS come to a good moral quandary is the Menites. I think that when their god pretty much declares Jihad on everybody who doesn't sycophantically worship him, I think your free to feel worried. Its not excusable at all when his divine avatar joins in with the people who invented their flamethrowers to punish nonbelievers first (With agonizing cruelty) and then think "Hey, this might be good on our actual ENEMIES as well!".

But for the actual difficult moral quandry they dropped it and focused on these two rival stupid dichotomies.

>>53632030
>If its Written for Cygnar, Khadorans will be choking on their spit in-between puppy lashing ceremonies, and mass grave burials for the abstract notion of suffering.

Khador is always villainous and stories where they are are not 'written for Cygnar'. They're written for the game. Nothing about the invasion of Llael was written for Cygnar, but the Khadorans were still turning political undesirables into Doom Reavers and unleashing them on civilians. None of the fluff about the hideously corrupt kayazy system or the unethical and often insane practices of the koldun orders are written for Cygnar.

>Theoretically, it sends out mercenary squads to pretty much murder Khadoran Villages for no reason, Kills genius dissenters because they don't like work going into the hands of the enemy, and has squads of assassins "stabilizing" regions it likes.
>But they are also a bullshit wonderland, where trolls and goblins and ogruns and humans where the smartest most awesome most inventive and creative people in the world gather around in order to sing songs.

Cygnar has never been portrayed as a utopia or wonderland where everyone gets alone. It is however THE MOST diverse and advanced Iron Kingdom out of the lot.

Have you considered that most western nations have basically had the same nuance you're describing at some point? Shit, the US is a melting pot and a world leader in technology and standards of living, but it still has areas of crushing poverty, marginalized populations, and has literally sponsored mass rapes and killing abroad in the pursuit of security and power. This is what nations are, anon.

You honestly just seem butthurt that your favourite faction isn't being portrayed as the good guys, and is currently getting its teeth kicked in by Cygnar after a victory streak that's lasted for most of the game's existence.

>>53632644
>after a victory streak that's lasted for most of the game's existence.

As an outsider to this argument, I don't think this is entirely accurate. Khador took Llael in the very first book, they gained ground in the Thornwood and Karchev razed that fortress, but beyond that they've spent most of the game's history defending these accomplishments or failing to advance further. The latter books were more about them getting slapped about by, then allying with Cygnar against, Cryx.

>>53583960
>>Abridged Mk2 Lore
>Gargantuans:
>https://pastebin.com/XPKMKYUc
>Exigence:
>https://pastebin.com/6D1fwSgv

I NEED PART 3 GODDAMN YOU

>>53632644
>Khador is always villainous and stories where they are are not 'written for Cygnar'.

My point is that they are written as evilly villainous even when it doesn't make sense.

The Artillery captain is written as a guy who doesn't care for the friendly casualties caused by his mortar weapons....When his ability is to prevent friendly casualties from mortars.

But fair enough. I dislike how Khador is written then I suppose. Maybe I wish it had more nuance than it really does.

And even if Khador didn't exist I would still hate Cygnar for how shittily it's written. I like the Retribution, the Circle as better examples of very troubled factions that want the best but are forced to take bad actions.

Cygnar is just mostly about goody two shoes mary sues, and then some noble does something bad but never gets reported.

And its "Winning" streak lasted long enough for them to capture a part of Lael (With a massive emphasis of how unstable it is) and then lose a chunk of it to the Protectorate. Then capture a shitty useless forest that they proceed to give back to Cygnar instantly.

>>53632030
>But its so brutally segmented. It's like it all exists in different alternate dimensions and never interacts with one another.
I think at times like this, it is important to keep in mind The Purpose of wargame fluff: Every faction must have a reason to be fighting every other faction at all times. In addition, wherever possible, every faction should have a reason to be fighting itself at all times.

Given that one inviolable rule, I think they are doing ok.

>>53584240
>>53584256
I assumed it was just a matter of time, as much as they're hyping this book, but I'm glad it's sooner rather than later.

And she is totes adorbes

Is taking a Bouncer with Madrak3 redundant?

>>53631462
You mean Kommander "Gases the Masses" Harkevich?

>>53635175
Gases FOR the masses, come on anon

>>53635175
Isn't Strakhov the one who gasses people?

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>>53632644

Khador may also be creating Doom Reaver blades too.

I believe in the lore it's implied that many of the Doom Reaver weapons created are more recent than those unearthed from Orogoth ruins.

Considering how those are made, that points to something foul going on in the north perhaps.


Though really, is there any reason Khador shouldn't be like it is?

Out of all the nations in Immoren, didn't they suffer the most under the Orogoth only to see what was originally theirs diminished by their erstwhile allies after fighting tooth and axe to drive out the invaders?

As I understand it, the Corvis document isn't worth the paper it was printed on and that many of the nations created from it should not be.


None of this of course excuses how Khador goes about prosecuting it's objectives, but does make it understandable as to why their Empire is the way it is in current times.

>>53628618

I don't think it's anything to do with the cortex just a jack isn't flexible and they can't reach around their body properly to wield a two handed weapon.

(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Aptimus Marketh [5]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Paingiver Bloodrunners [9]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]

(Makeda 1) Archdomina Makeda [+29]
- Archidon [10]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Molik Karn [19]
- Scarab Pack [10]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Legends of Halaak [8]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Praetorian Swordsmen (max) [13]
- Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard [4]

Come on guys, make like a Satyxis Raider and give me Feedback. Both lists seem fine as it stands, but it feels like the Rasheth list could do with something. Maybe swapping a Cannoneer for a Raider and Shaman?

>>53622074
>Theme lists still cancer?

Yep


Game is pretty boring right now.

>>53626258

Because one time a Troll player got a Charge of the Trolls, Heroic Ballad, Stone Strength unit of Champs on their heavy that just had Calamity cast on it and now they are convinced Champions are the best thing ever.

Usually Champs just die on the way in, hit just like a Bane for the most part except they're 17 points for a unit of 5.

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>>53635615

I think in the most recent novel detailing the Cygnaran invasion of Riversmet, Harkevich had some weird chemical bomb shenanigans he was planting on bridges, but Magnus managed to turn the tables and use it to eliminate Khadoran forces in the city.

An act Stryker would have had Magnus court marshaled for were he not needed for the war effort.

It kind of flies in the face of Harkevich's characterization, but it's what we have now.

Plus it might actually not be as bad as what Irusk would have had in mind given he actually destroyed a large potion of the city the first time around.

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>>53631088

I find it hard to see the Skorne as villainous given their Empire is like it is largely out of necessity.

And I say largely while keeping in mind things like this.

>>53635811
>As I understand it, the Corvis document isn't worth the paper it was printed on

You could make a sort of argument for this. Everyone has quietly disregarded parts of the treaty when it suits them.

>and that many of the nations created from it should not be

Pretty much all the nations have as much right to exist as each other. Khador's gripes with the treaty is that the Khardic Empire owned much of what was Llael and Ord, and some of northern Cygnar, but, despite their self-perception of themselves, Khador =/= the Khardic Empire. The Khardic Empire hadn't existed for around seven hundred years at the time of the treaty's signing, it was utterly crushed by the Orgoth and its populations were carted around so much that they barely resemble that of the old empire.

None of the people in modern Ord or Llael were exactly willing participants in the Khardic Empire back when it actually existed, and after several centuries, none of them have any real links to it. They were completely separate entities for almost a thousand years, Khador had no real claim to them whatsoever.

>>53635978
It's likely that Harkevich was being pushed into it by his more cutthroat superiors. Ultimately, he's not his own boss.

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>>53627845
>>53628029
>Thyron, under the mask.

>>53636924

Yeah, I was wondering if Irusk or someone in Khadoran command had twisted his arm on the matter.

Especially since I believe Irusk may be head of Khadoran strategic command at the moment.

>>53636099
Imagine living in a culture and environment so fucking boring that torturing animals is your way of life AND your only pastime

>>53637052

I thought their environment was trying to kill them most of the time?

>>53636971
I wasn't being facetious. Ellowuyr swordsmen swear off sex whilst in service. Typically this is 40 years. In his case, probably longer, and he probably started way earlier in order to achieve his rank by his age, because there is no way he's as old as Goreshade/Vyros. He's likely around Ossyan's age, which puts him somewhere around 50/60 human years.

>>53636099
The evil thing about the Skorne is that they are desperate to export their shitty way of life to other places.

I mean, sure, their society is harsh and highly regimented due to their afterlife. But there's no real reason to want to enforce it on other peeps beyond spite and scorn.

Skorne are bad because their racial inferiority complex compels them to share their miserable existence with the rest of the world.

>>53635869
>(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
>- Basilisk Krea [7]
>- Titan Cannoneer [17]
>- Titan Cannoneer [17]
>- Titan Gladiator [15]
>- Aptimus Marketh [5]
>Extoller Soulward [3]
>Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
>Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
>Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
>Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
>Paingiver Bloodrunners [9]
>Praetorian Karax (max) [11]

Bloodrunners are shit. Just take Slingers for AD arcnodes. Toss Marketh he's pointless with Rasheth. Now you have 6 extra points, bring an Agoniser to stack with Rasheth's feat turn.

>>53637428

Isn't them exporting it just a natural part of conquest?

>>53637428
>Skorne are bad because their racial inferiority complex compels them to share their miserable existence with the rest of the world.

Wouldn't that be a racial superiority complex if they believe all other races are beneath them and exist only to be enslaved and used by Skorne?

>>53637087
Being in constant danger of predation because they live in a desert shithole full of giant shitty reptiles and spending their fractional downtime contemplating their shitty non-afterlife probably leads to a rather monotonous life.

>>53637428
>harsh desert people waging spiteful violence on "the others" because their lives essentially suck and they can't accept the idea of people living any other way
This post is too real too soon. Humans don't even have the excuse of being different species and/or fictional

>>53637540
>Toss Marketh he's pointless with Rasheth
Just no. Rasheth is always killing his own dudes, so having someone convert those deaths into free upkeeps is already good, but he can drop a free Breath of Corruption every turn, and be an arc node for 2+ spells. He's one of the best models you can use with Rasheth honestly. I don't agree with your assessment of Bloodrunners too. I don't want AD arc nodes, I want to gum up the field, and DEF14 assassins with an 11.5" threat range seem fine. Especially with a Master Tormentor making them MAT8. Throw in backstrike, Gang, and Carnivore, and they can be MAT14 :^)

The fuck am I protecting with an Agonizer anyway? I could understand removing the Krea, but adding an Agonizer is a complete no.

>>53637132
Is it bad that your post gave me the mental image of a bad high school anime featuring all our favorite Iosan warcasters
>Ghyrrshyyyyylddd-senpai give Hypnos back kudasai
>Ehhhhh, what's the matter Ossyan-kun? Out of focus again? You'll never make student council president at this rate~

>>53637849

>Just no. Rasheth is always killing his own dudes, so having someone convert those deaths into free upkeeps is already good, but he can drop a free Breath of Corruption every turn, and be an arc node for 2+ spells. He's one of the best models you can use with Rasheth honestly.

He's a complete waste of points. He's a model with victim stats that has access to short ranged spells, he gets fucked in short order after casting his first BoC. You have an AD unit and two AD solos, if you go so far into the game that you're running down to a backline support solo to arc spells you've already fucked that pooch long ago.

>I don't agree with your assessment of Bloodrunners too. I don't want AD arc nodes, I want to gum up the field, and DEF14 assassins with an 11.5" threat range seem fine. Especially with a Master Tormentor making them MAT8. Throw in backstrike, Gang, and Carnivore, and they can be MAT14 :^)

Bloodrunners don't gum shit up at all, they're only a 6 man unit and they die easy. MAT14? Who gives a fuck, what are they going to fight all the High DEF infantry nobody is bringing?

And yes, you want AD arcnodes. Rasheth likes to second being able to fling spells and snipe models like UAs. A cheap AD unit facilitates this. Additionally they bring useful shit like Flare/AOE corrosion to the table.

>>53637428
All Skorne want to prove how badass they are so they can earn immortality. What better way to prove that than to enslave the world.

>>53637849

>The fuck am I protecting with an Agonizer anyway? I could understand removing the Krea, but adding an Agonizer is a complete no.

Your fucking backbone of your list? Your Titans, retard. You know what happens when a Temporal Accelerated Stormwall charges a Titan sitting at effective ARM23? The mother fucking samurai elephant tells the Stormwall to take a fucking hike.

Your Titans are going to get charged because even with Rush they're fucking slow as shit. They need to be able to take a hit more than anything else because if you take a bad alpha strike that list is fucked. What do you think is going to pull your ass out of the fire, the Karax? You win or die by those Titans.

>>53637849
>The fuck am I protecting with an Agonizer anyway? I could understand removing the Krea, but adding an Agonizer is a complete no.

The Titans. If they go down you've got like 1 maybe 2 turns tops if you're lucky to nigger rig an assassination or you're fucked.

>>53638157
>>53638178
>>53638235
>Bloat your list with every conceivable support piece you can bring!
No thanks desu senpaitachi.

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Which Ret casters make the best use of Halberdiers? I've been looking at using them instead of Sentinels under Vyros1 as a way to save points for more jacks, but I'm wondering if they have any roles beyond meat shielding and being a warrior model for feats.

>>53638266

Except the part where they're suggesting REMOVING a sub par support piece to ADD one that synergises with Rasheth's strengths, like his feat and overall helps shore up a weakness of your list?

You are pretty bloody dumb mate.

>>53638437
I've played Marketh with Rasheth many times and he's never once been a letdown though. Hell he can just drop a Breath from out of range so a Cannoneer can move behind it to block LOS from enemy heavies.

>>53638266

Well the Agonizer has it's uses.

Even if it's shot off the board before it does anything of note, that's attention your opponent is wasting on it instead of something better.

>>53638527

Even if you hope to get a perfect scatter that lands where you need it to, that Protects 1 Titan from being obliterated by an alpha strike. Comboing an Agoniser with Rasheth's feat protects all 3 as you shove them in your opponent's face.

Being able to dial multiple Titans to the point of durability where it takes more firepower than even a Colossal can offer to kill even a single one of them is incredibly good.

And it's necessary because you will take the first hit against the majority of opponents who will either match or easily outpace melee threats of 10" and your list isn't stacking enough ranged firepower to reliably dictate the pace of engagement.

>>53638687
>A colossal can't kill a pseudo-ARM23 heavy
That's just straight up wrong though. Like just no.
>your list isn't stacking enough ranged firepower to reliably dictate the pace of engagement
That's why I started with the question of whether swapping a Cannoneer for a Raider and Shaman seemed like a good idea as it's just more boostable guns. I just remember people spamming their meme arrows and telling me that Rasheth with double Cannoneer was good like a week ago and didn't get why. Played a game today with my list against Denny3 and assassinated her, figured boostable guns with damage buffs and Rasheth's own spells meant the list wanted to assassinate and it worked. Now I've got memesters telling me the list wants to take the alpha strike and make Cannoneers pretend they're Bronzebacks or something.
>Even if you hope to get a perfect scatter that lands where you need it to
You drop it BEFORE you activate the titan, numbnuts.

Maybe I should swap the Karax and Bloodrunners for Brigands+UA.

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Remember that time when Cryx was the worst faction in mk3 until they started to use a pairing that was good since mk3 started?

I factually despise you Cryx shitters. Every last one of you.

>>53639008
All it takes is to get out of the mindset of "more banez", so yeah, took a couple months.

>>53637631
>Wouldn't that be a racial superiority complex if they believe all other races are beneath them and exist only to be enslaved and used by Skorne?

Inferiority and superiority complexes are often two halves of the same coin.

In the Skorne's case, they pretty much know their deal is objectively shit, and so they fixate on sharing that shittiness with others and trying to prove that they can deal with the shittiness better. The entire Skorne outlook on other races is seated in a tortured desire to prove that they're not shit and that everyone else couldn't deal with being in such an objectively inferior situation. This goes all the way back to their interactions with the ancient Lyossans, who were superior in every measurable way - they lived forever, they had natural magic, they had an afterlife for those that did die, etc etc etc.

So, yes, outwardly, Skorne tell others and themselves that they're the best and everyone else is below them. But they do this because they have a lot to prove.

>>53637757
Eh, that's a whole different situation that has more to do with the overall collapse of that region of the world following/during the Cold War.

>>53638909
>That's just straight up wrong though. Like just no.

Actually it's correct. A Temporal Accelerated Stormwall, so a Stormwall with a damageo utput buff, averages 22.5 damage against ARM23. That doesn't kill a Titan.

Baldur2 with Woldwraths is another really common one these days, with Hunter's Mark a Woldwrath averages they also average 22.5 against ARM23.

Unless they're coming at you with shit like Skarre1 feat turn an ARM23 Titan will tank a Colossal even with some throughput buffs on them.

>You drop it BEFORE you activate the titan, numbnuts.

And it scatters forwards 6", now it's like 8-10" in front of your Cannoneer and is way out of position, fantastic. So you put it right in front of your cannoneer so no matter what you do you can Rush and walk up to it. Then it scatters backwards behind your Cannoneer and now you're marching it away from its targets and objectives. #Value.

> Played a game today with my list against Denny3 and assassinated her, figured boostable guns with damage buffs and Rasheth's own spells meant the list wanted to assassinate and it worked.

You assassinated a fucking Battle Engine caster you idiot, of course it was easy. She's ARM16 base against someone who can put neg4 on her and she can't fucking hide. You can't rely on that against a caster who's actually defensible. Try kill Haley3 when she's DEF22 behind a wall, or you know, just sits behind a building or a forest all game so you're never going to touch her.

Rasheth double Cannoneer is good, but the Cannoneers more often than not have to leverage the fact that they can actually fight in melee. If you want a list that can actually lay down the ranged firepower try the tier list with the CID battle engine rules. 2 Cannoneers on their own won't stop shit like Cygnar ramming double Stormlancers plus jacks down your throat or Karchev spamming you with 8 heavy warjacks.

>>53638909
>That's why I started with the question of whether swapping a Cannoneer for a Raider and Shaman seemed like a good idea as it's just more boostable guns. I just remember people spamming their meme arrows and telling me that Rasheth with double Cannoneer was good like a week ago and didn't get why. Played a game today with my list against Denny3 and assassinated her, figured boostable guns with damage buffs and Rasheth's own spells meant the list wanted to assassinate and it worked. Now I've got memesters telling me the list wants to take the alpha strike and make Cannoneers pretend they're Bronzebacks or something.

Rasheth Cannoneers is a shooting/melee hybrid list. You use the ranged firepower to dent your opponent's melee output while also scalpeling outsupport models that force multiply damage output, then you move into an attrition fight in melee.

You need to be able to hold up on the melee attrition side though, and that means you probably need to be able to tank an alpha strike from your opponent because the list is slow, especially so if you're not running a variant that also brings a Sentry.

If you want to straight up shoot stuff off the table you have to stick all your eggs in that basket, you can't really half ass it. Your infantry all need to shoot and you should probably be looking into playing tier to squeeze more points and thus more throughput out of the list.

>>53638322
Issyria, Vyros1, Elara2, and Ossyan all make good use of them. Arguably Elara2 and Ossyan make the best use of them.

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Is the game doing alright in you area?

I noticed PP's youtube channel has 15k subs and WarGamerGirl hasn't done a batrep in 6 months.

WarmaHordes got a new edition and PP started using actual plastic instead of plesin. Where did the excitement go?

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>>53639517

>Plastic kits are shit
>Video game failed
>Mk 3 was a disaster when it launched
>It's not as crazy unbalanced now but theme lists are just spams with free solos
>SR 2017 is boring as all get out, you clock or get clocked or get assassinated
>Many models are still useless in internal faction balance
>Warrrom still sucks
>Factions are losing identity as PP has to continue their release schedule and can't find creative design space

There's some basic reasons. It's dead in my area now. The other big area I live close to is looking at 8th edition 40k now.

Goddamnit PP.

>>53639274
I still don't understand why you're suggesting an Agonizer to back up a Cannoneer instead of suggesting replacing the Cannoneer since that's apparently what you think I should do.
>And it scatters forwards 6"
Breath of Corruption can only scatter 4" max. 5" if you have craft talisman up.
>the Cannoneers more often than not have to leverage the fact that they can actually fight in melee
I'm fully aware.

But seriously why aren't you just suggesting melee heavies instead of Cannoneers? Tell me what you think Cannoneers do with a single POW15 each turn.

>>53639474
I take it cheapish dudes with reach love Scything Touch and bonus charge distance.

I really need to nail down my colors before Elara2 ships, because she's going straight to front of my painting table.

>>53639764

>But seriously why aren't you just suggesting melee heavies instead of Cannoneers? Tell me what you think Cannoneers do with a single POW15 each turn.

It's all about piece trading.

They dent your opponent's ability to attrition with you in melee by allowing you to pick a target and focus on it. Let's say your opponent is running double Stormclads with a list. 2 Boosted 15s aren't going to kill a Stormclad. But you're going to get 2 turns worth of shooting at it because Range 16" is a thing. So Rasheth Bloodmarks it and now 4 boosted 15s will do the job.

So now you've started the piece trading with your opponent. Rasheth Cannoneers attempts to steer the game into a position where he will win the melee attrition battle because he is gradually deleting the models his opponent can use to fight his heavy, high ARM pieces.

So the piece trade has started. Maybe you've got some Venators or something trying to whittle down Stormlances, which given the meta, are also something your opponent is probably rolling around with.

So your opponent is now going to hit your lines at this point with his Stormclad, maybe plink your warbeasts with some shooting to loosen them up. Rasheth's feat should be up. You do not want to give up your heavies. At all costs you want to keep them standing. If you can push your opponent into committing into a Titan that he can't kill under -4 STR, you will probably sure as fuck kill whatever he sent in in retaliation. Even if he overcommits into it to power through -4 STR, you now have 2 other Titans that can still counter attack and clean him up.

cont.

>>53640651
cont.

If you can use the 2 turns of double Cannoneer shooting to help blunt this offensive turn because you've shot one of his heavies off the table, you're in a good spot to make this happen. That's why you bring them instead of a melee beast. What sure as shit prevents the damage output of a heavy warjack? Killing it before it touches you.

Rasheth double cannoneers practices some preventative medacine. However it's not 100% effective, it needs a booster shot from the Agoniser to help offset offensive buffs that your opponents will use, which will happen without a doubt.

>>53639517
>Is the game doing alright in you area?

It died off a few months after MK3 dropped, but between PP's efforts to correct their mistakes and GW stamping out the last few drops of depth from 40k, it's undergone a revival in my club. We've had three people pick the game up in the last month and everyone seems mostly happy with it now.

>>53639594
>plastic kits
Boohoo, you suck at modeling and don't like the hydra. Git gud.

>vidya
Has nothing to do with tabletop

>MK3
Cryx can't run MK2 banes. Truly a disastrous release.

>muh themes
Themes have always been stupid

>SR2017
Free space

>War Room kills my shitty phone
Play local match, even if online, it's 100x better than old War Room

>#designspace
The complete opposite is happening. You're getting themes that flesh out the faction identities like never before.

Ooo, that's a bingo!

>>53639764
>I still don't understand why you're suggesting an Agonizer to back up a Cannoneer instead of suggesting replacing the Cannoneer since that's apparently what you think I should do.

Nobody at all said replace the canonneer, they said protect your fucking cannoneer with an agoniser because it's important and you can't afford to lose it you dumb fuck.

You know what makes Maddox sad? When she says feat turn! and you turn around and say, cool, you're still at -1 STR.

>>53635978
The gas was specifically deployed as a last resort to be used alongside explosives meant to destroy the main bridge into Riversmet and stop the Cygnaran approach into the city. He never utilized it, or was even implied to intend to use it, against civilians or inside the city.

>>53640802

While that is an effective strategy, couldn't he have just had Black Ivan and a couple of Destroyers or a Marauder knock the bridges down with less effort?

>>53640788
>>53640651
>>53640668
(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Venator Slingers (min) [8]

So how about this?

>>53639517
>Is the game doing alright in you area?
Not that I know of but I'm organising a campaign to play at home with some friends, so I'll get quite a few games in over the summer.

>>53640892
It's a big bridge. It would take more than a few jacks to bring it down. Also, the explosives were a last resort to be used if the Cygnarans were able to take it. The gas was just an extra bit of area denial to make absolutely sure the Cygnarans couldn't get in that way.

>>53640966

Play it. Also try some variations where you swap the Karax and Master Tormentors for a full Reiver boat and turn it into the tier list, you'll get a free solo out of it, which, if you wanted, could be Marketh. Or it could be a Dakar or another Soulward.

>>53639008
You mean before Ghost Fleet was released, after which the only viable Cryx list has been Ghost Fleet?

>>53641153

Catapults are suprisingly decent with Rasheth too, when they're free. 5pts vs 0 is a big difference.

Krea landing a stun gun shot on heavy warbeasts and dropping its DEF so the catapults can tag them with POW18s does decent work.

>>53641188

Actually Skarre1 Stalker spam with double Wraith Engine is fucking disgusting under SR2016, that's been running around at major tournaments like the Australian team championships this year.

>>53627891
Feat: Ragnarok
All models in my control range take a POW 14 hit. Models damaged by my feat suffer stationary. I or a model in my battlegroup can move 1" per model destroyed by my feat.

>>53641390
>Everything takes the damage and becomes stationary
>Some infantry dies
>Your models can't move because they're stationary too
>Nice job faggot

>>53641423
Then make it "can be placed" for equivalent distance.
>Your mind is the weakest link, and you don't even lift.

>>53641508
I'd rather change it by reducing the POW from "all enemy infantry dies lol all my stuff is large based" to "half of most infantry units dies to this".

>>53641571
It should have said enemies.
And I want it at POW 14 so in the case of fighting dirty traitors I can actually stop them for a turn while my Man O War catchup.

>>53641088

>The gas was just an extra bit of area denial to make absolutely sure the Cygnarans couldn't get in that way.

I figured that's what it was.

I'm wondering how the war progresses from this point forward however.

>>53639517
Wargamegirl leaves fucking ages between battle reports and always has. If she wasn't a girl people wouldn't even bother with her channel because her uploads are so infrequent.

>>53640769
>Boohoo, you suck at modeling and don't like the hydra. Git gud.

Not that guy but wtf are you talking about? Their plastic has been shit, why would you tell someone to 'git gud' like an autistic shitlord? Their plastic is awful dude, we should be critical of kits like the Hydra, Warders, etc.

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>>53640769
>You're getting themes that flesh out the faction identities like never before.

That's fucking hilarious anon. Most lists that play theme take 3-4 things x 2 and spam until FA doesn't allow them to. I could probably pick a tournament at random and you'd see that shit.

Theme lists are cancer.

>>53639517
Going strong in my state and in other communities.

The key to enjoying the game is to disconnect from the toxic online community and actually go play the game. It's awesome and i continue to have fun. I play Trolls, Mercs, Cygnar, and I guess Grymkin in a fairly competitive community that gets around 16 players for local events and and 40+ for state events.

>>53642902
Have you considered playing a different game or changing up your lists?

>>53599479


They ret conned it to where khador is the bad guy rather than keep it grey.

>>53632644

Khador secured laell in the ikrpg book and continued siege everything in its path and then conquered cygnar all the way to corvis before taking a rest break.

Mk3 brought in a treaty which khador decided was a good idea (lolwut) and gave back all their gains to the enemy.

Cygnar wins one fight with poison gas. Oh no.

>>53644068
>Have you considered playing a different game

Most people have, that's why the game is dying you twat.

>>53644681
The less of you salty cunts the better. Then the people who actually enjoy the game can have fun

>>53642902
Wait, are you that fucker that complained about my fluffy Stormsmiths list having too many Stormsmiths? Go choke on a dick, anon. What do you think my smiths army would have been more well rounded with a unit of gun mages and Alexia's Risen? I bet you go into 40k threads and shit on people's Ultramarine armies for "spamming Space Marine stuff". Theme forces are meant to allow players to play fluffier, more restricted armies and to incentivize their restricted unit selection with some modest benefits. Theme forces are much better in mk3 than the shit fest it was in mk2. Go shit up a guild ball thread or something you malformed abortion of a man.

>>53640769
>themes that flesh out the faction identities
Yeah my Venator Spam list is WAY more fluffy than a mixed Skorne list with models from every warrior tradition supporting each other through their specializations. I'll take those 14 free points for being such a good fluffbunny.

>>53646275
You could just not play the theme anon

>>53646302
And play 14p down? No thanks.

>>53646313
Isn't the Skorne theme bad anyway?

>>53646334
It's not bad. It's just rather specific. Purely from a power level perspective it is absolutely fine. It takes okay models and rewards you for spamming them. My problems with themes are more general (restrict list building, actively go against fluff half the time).

>>53645072
To a certain degree I would have to disagree. I liked the flavor of a lot of the theme lists from Mk II. Yes some were complete junk and yes some were OP as fuck. That is bad. That said, I'd like to see more theme lists and a larger variety of them than we currently have.

And to be perfectly honest, I don't enjoy the current theme lists. They really do encourage spamming and making a list hyper-focused. At least the Cygnar ones do. Then throw on that they just don't feel as thematic as the ones from Mk II. Which is admittedly my own personal opinion.

>>53644898

In another years time this game will be completely forgotten because of nit wits like you.

>>53646275
More fluffy then Eiriss or whatever else merc being in every list.

Skorne does suffer from segregated theme lists more then say: Khador.

Because for Khador it IS more fluffy for different Army types.

>>53646610
>Then throw on that they just don't feel as thematic as the ones from Mk II. Which is admittedly my own personal opinion.

They don't but they also didn't make sense.

Like even If I was the Old Witch, I would take more units then just fucking KOSSITES.

>>53647403
>More fluffy then Eiriss or whatever else merc being in every list.
And less fluffy than her being in no list whatsoever. Themes are not the right fix for auto-includes. Balanced model rules are.
>Skorne does suffer from segregated theme lists more then say: Khador.
We shall see. It's not like we have more than one theme force. But Khador indeed suffers very little from it.
>Because for Khador it IS more fluffy for different Army types.
Is it? I'm not too familiar with Khador fluff. But is it really weird for - say - Winter Guard and Manowar to work together?

>>53647429
>Is it? I'm not too familiar with Khador fluff. But is it really weird for - say - Winter Guard and Manowar to work together?

It isn't, but THEMATICALLY it works very well. Why I said that Scorne Suffers, is because its stuff is very...Well, one note no place for resistance. Its all generally the same Color Scheme, with the same history with the same motives and military rank type deal. Every single aspect of Skorne goes back to the same thing.

Compare the difference Between a MOW and a Winter Guard for Instance. One draws upon Khadors view of disposable infantry, and the other draws upon Khador as the inventor of the Steam Engine.

One would be a wall of flesh, the other would be like dozens of war jacks.

Iron Fangs, for instance, represent a whole different martial history for Khador, then the Twisted Traditions of the Greylords, or the corrupt Kayazy.

I LIKE the idea of theme forces, and critically I would tell people: Get over free points. Seriously people. Try the lists you made before. They're still great.
Winter Guards and MOWs STILL work excellently together, but you gotta get over that Psychological hump of free points.

And very critically PP has fucked up by releasing theme forces way too early. They really should have waited for the books to come out, so every theme list could be much more varied (Like the Trencher one coming up).

>>53647558
I see what you mean from the fluff perspective. That makes sense. Themes like Storm Division or Winterguard Kommand do make sense from a fluff perspective. Winds of Death less so.

>I LIKE the idea of theme forces
I do like theme forces like Kingmaker. They add ways to play fluffy forces that you otherwise couldn't. I'm not sold on any of the others being necessary or beneficial for the game.
>and critically I would tell people: Get over free points. Seriously people. Try the lists you made before. They're still great.
Well what can I say, playing 10-20p down is a massive disadvantage. Sure my lists still work, but playing uphill every game is pretty shitty. I wish PP would get over free points instead. Themes would be fine without them.

>>53647671
>I wish PP would get over free points instead.

I thought so too for a bit but then I think I figured out why:

Whatever extra theme benefit, it would have to stack on TOP of whatever the Command Attachments or Solos Provided.

And that benefit would have to be good enough, to motivate people to make the lists...Would probably be even more broken.

The idea is that you get free points, but only for support Solos, in a way your "Theme force benefit" is having all the extra abilities as a default. So for Instance Winter Guards extra abilities would have to stack WITH Joe.

And I think in the long term that would be even harder to balance.

But who knows?

>>53647797
>extra theme benefit
No. Themes already grant benefits. Like Sac Pawn or extra deployment or more respawning Revenants. Just remove the free points. Nothing needs to be added in their stead.

>>53647826
You think that would be enough to make people take the lists without just reaching for the usual auto includes instead?

I kinda doubt it. Sac Pawn in Winter Guard is great, but it's not magic immune, so most people would still proceed to use the standard anti-magic mercs.
You would still see Double Stormlances, just not in theme because the Storm Division doesn't really grant all that great abilities on its own.

But I at least see your point.

My two cents on the theme force debate: I preferred mk2 because it was more diverse. In mk2 there were almost as many playable themes as there were casters and there were playable non-theme lists as well that could fit multiple casters. In mk3 only in theme lists are competitively successful and there is only one way to build each theme with maybe switching casters around (though not really). Say in khador you could run a deathstar with sorscha, harkevich/karchev jack spam, infantry spam with irusk, all comers lists with most casters (usually iron fang centric), doom spam with butcher, butcher3 assasination list, ezerkova magic list, vlad3 cavalry list, old witch control and more. In mk3 there is jackspam and rocketeer spam. Finito. Haven't seen iron fangs performing yet but still that would total three lists.

>>53647875
>You think that would be enough to make people take the lists without just reaching for the usual auto includes instead?
Yes and no. I think theme forces need to be an option and not become an auto-include themselves. People should consider them and benefits like "everything gets blessed" or "your caster cannot be shot (sac pawn)" are enough for that.

Now, auto-include models need to be fixed. But not with a dozen theme forces. Fixing their rules is enough. Everyone takes Eyriss all the time? Slightly nerf Eyriss.

>>53647888
Sorry, most of those you listed were not competitive. Jack Spam was the biggest joke, get over it.

Most theme lists where NOT playable or played at all, unless it gave some kind of massive leg up.

Yes, there were 16 different flavors of "Winter Guard Spam" on one list and "Kayazy" with the other, with mostly Iron Flesh Casters completely dominating the meta.

Later on it was "Mass Merc" attacks, with the same mercs over and over again as well.

Like shit on MKIII for its actual mistakes, and stop looking at MKII with lie tinted pink glasses.

>>53647931
Man I know what I'm saying. I wss regularly bringing Zerkova2/Vlad3 in theme pairing to tournaments with decent success. Nowadays if I tried it would be like banging my head on the metawall because the actually good stuff is so much better. I would take cryx being op as balls and everything else being reasonably balanced over good external and shit internal balance of mk3.

>>53584110
>>53584156
>For every full 25 points of Dawnguard Destors in this army, you can add one Destor Thane to the army free of cost.
I can see it now

>>53647965
>Nowadays if I tried it would be like banging my head on the metawall because the actually good stuff is so much better.

Like? Please list how balanced the game was in MKII.

How much of Zerkova 2 was just Infantry spam meta? How much of it was dominated by recurring shit over and over again (Also no warjacks).

I can get a Metawall, but saying that "Its because the good stuff is so much better" is so much of a lie, when so much of "The good stuff" got a whole lot worse, and thats even what people complain about nonstop.

>>53647920
>Everyone takes Eyriss all the time? Slightly nerf Eyriss.

Then everybody takes Ruin. Or that other Anti Magic guy. Point being its not even necessarily BROKEN stuff. Its just optimal stuff.

>>53647999
>Then everybody takes Ruin. Or that other Anti Magic guy. Point being its not even necessarily BROKEN stuff. Its just optimal stuff.
Then Ruin needs to be balanced. Or whatever else is above the curve. Iterative balancing cycles are the right way of doing balance, restricting everyone to 2-3 prebuilt lists per faction is the lazy way.

>>53647999
I don't get your argument. Are you trying to say that infantry spam was easier to play against with niche lists? Anyway, I feel that mk2 was more balanced for the following reasons:
>cryx is clearly op and gives you a golden standard of being op
>every other faction can reasonably compete against one another with multiple lists, some with less than others though
>in faction balance was achieved by some models offering more gimmicks in exchange for less stats. In mk3 gimmicks are less powerful so taking models with better stats is virtually always the right choice
>everything was op so nothing was, that is there was a myriad of lists that could grab a win by pulling something specific off without with roughly even success chance
>tactics, mindgames, ballsy plays and unexpected turns of events were commonplace, now it's only gunlines and run up then charge so power differences are more visible
>more more specific theme forces that were playable made for a greater list diversity
>

>>53648045
Ruin wasn't (Nor isn't) unbalanced. He just brings Dispel to a faction that doesn't have any access to it without him. So either you start trimming Khadors access to stuff, or make them more one note, or it will be still taken all the time.

>>53648125
>I don't get your argument. Are you trying to say that infantry spam was easier to play against with niche lists?

No Im saying that certain niche lists did better against infantry. Now that infantry is less taken, its less popular.

>everything was op so nothing was,

Im willing to debate other things but this was a lie. You liked the things that where OP and just didn't care what was left in the dumpster.

>>53648180
>Ruin wasn't (Nor isn't) unbalanced. He just brings Dispel to a faction that doesn't have any access to it without him. So either you start trimming Khadors access to stuff, or make them more one note, or it will be still taken all the time.
Well first of all I kind of doubt your examples. I've hardly seen any Eyriss in early Mk3 and Ruin was only in about 30% of Khador lists. But that doesn't really matter. If Dispell is something Khador is supposed to have, give it to more things in Khador. If Dispell is something Khador is not supposed to have, take it away, make it more expensive or make it the Bond. Or in other words, if Ruin is overused, balance Ruin.

>>53646610
I think a lot of the feeling that theme lists encourage spam is more that there are a lack of valid options within a theme force.

You mentioned Cygnar. Storm Lances were taken at max FA before the themes, and if Storm Division did not exist, it would probably be a common occurance that cygnar lists were played out of theme with max FA on Storm Lances.

This is due, I think, to the imbalance in Cygnar's infantry. The other options in Storm Division are rarely played, even outside of storm division. Cygnar is getting a Trencher theme soon, and the same thing is gonna happen there without a rebalance. You'll take max FA on Trencher Infantry, and ignore all the other options, 'cause they're bad.

I see your Charger/Hunter/Gunbunny/etc. spam and raise you this bullshit:

https://conflictchamber.com/#c9201b_-0key4x6S6S4C4C4C4C4C4C4C4C5V5V

Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Winds of Death

(Xerxis 2) Xerxis, Fury of Halaak [+28]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Raider [9]
- Cyclops Raider [9]
- Cyclops Shaman x8 [8x8]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]

>Error: Our system things your post is spam.
Why yes system, it is.

>>53649274
Why not Rasheth? He can handle more fury on the turns before you go full meme, and amplifies your damage much more.

>>53649549
Because X2 makes the list faster and actually allows all beasts to just take the 11" free charge T1 and avoid Fury issues alltogether. Until Feat turn that is. X2's feat actually works out to ~1.7 to hit and damage which is not far behind Rasheth's with 2. And on Feat Turn you just go full retard with shooting and accept that most of your list will have to test for Frenzy next turn.

That said, fuck peinting 8 shamans, I'll never play it anyway. I was just looking for something to theorycraft about.

>>53648218
>haven't seen Eyriss in Mk3
That's because the caster can just take a trivial d3 damage to keep the upkeep in play now. It's not a true dispel anymore.

>>53648218
Same anon here -- also because most lists these days are in theme, which exclude mercenary models also.

>>53648218
>I've hardly seen any Eyriss in early Mk3
Because she no longer dispels. Instead that Rouge inquisitor guy is more popular.

> If Dispell is something Khador is not supposed to have, take it away, make it more expensive or make it the Bond. Or in other words, if Ruin is overused, balance Ruin.

That's now how something works in list building. Theoretically Khador isn't the Ranged Faction, so its not given great gun jacks. End result people rarely take ranged Jacks other than the Destroyer after the cost reduction.

>>53649734
>Rouge
Orin Midwinter seems edgy enough for makeup

>>53644068
>Have you considered playing a different game or changing up your lists?

Does it matter if I change my list? I see the same shit when I play certain factions, it makes for boring games.
>Oh look another Ghostfleet game
>Oh look you have 3 units/models at max FA again in X theme
>>53645072

>Wait, are you that fucker that complained about my fluffy Stormsmiths list having too many Stormsmiths? Go choke on a dick, anon.

>Spotted the Cygnar player
>This is why your Facebook group is made fun of by any popular podcasts and the general Warmahordes community

Oh you mad.
Sorry anons, theme lists are fucking cancer.

>>53649820
Locally we're thinking about trying a few weeks where theme lists are not allowed. Gives us a chance to dust off all of our mercenary models and open list design back up.

>>53649274
BEHOLD
OPTIC BLAST

>>53649820
>Have you considered playing a different game
Way ahead of you.

Dead game isn't just a meme.

>>53650366
>dead game shitter
still posting in /WMG

>>53649864

that's actually a good idea anon. Maybe that will make the game halfway fun again.

Don't know though, SR 2017 is still a grindy as fuck, boring packet.
>>53650366
We have too. I keep hoping in my heart that PP will turn shit around but they (and fanbois) are so defensive anymore, it doesn't really matter.

>>53650402
>SR2017
I wish I had more hope that the last month of 'internal playtesting' would significantly improve it. New terrain rules are a plus, though.

>>53650402
>We have too. I keep hoping in my heart that PP will turn shit around but they (and fanbois) are so defensive anymore, it doesn't really matter.

Well Im not defensive, but I like the game (Mostly) as is. Im just hoping to have everything be slowly upped in CID, some new releases, and pretty much that's it.

I kinda like not bringing mercs. I like more Warjacks, and I like a scenario packet that's more focused on actually killing the enemy instead of just winning because you plopped some assholes near a flag.

I like the toned down stuff, I like the more fluffy armies. I guess It sucks, but I like MKIII allot more.

I may be in the minority purity here but anyone else feel like the game has gotten way too abstracted or maybe better put its not invested into its own fluff? Like, 40k for all its flaws made for some interesting battles because it was never take zonex

>>53650711
Explain further?

>>53650723
Its feeling more and more like a board game in some regards I mean, at least in my meta its rare to see much beyond the barebones terrain and a battle that isn't just another steamroller 16 match up.

>>53650825

I agree. Thats why in many ways I dislike scenario play, and I dislike how competitive works. Of course it depends on meta, but it feels like very few people are willing to relax and play some of the story scenario games, or just relax. Everythings always on the clock.

Terrain is always minimal and bland.

But it's all about the right people. Find the right people and its fun.

>>53646275

It perfectly captures that lull in every Skorne conflict where the Praetorians have all gotten themselves killed getting noticed by sempai but haven't shown up again as Immortals yet and it's a Venator's paradise.

Which we happen to be in, design and meta both! Fluffy!

>>53650898
I hear that I'm slowly working out in my head what a building might look like on table beyond just being a los blocker.

>>53650952
To expand its be like an arm15, 30 box thing that provides +4 arm and girded to those in it. Nothing world shaking but fun.

>>53650952
I'm actually pretty excited for Structures for this very reason. Might give some much needed visual spice.

File: FB_IMG_1496762106527.jpg (149KB, 960x741px) Image search: [Google]

149KB, 960x741px

HAMMER DOWN!

>>53650644
>>53650671

8/10 games end with deathclock right now in our group. Not joking, we actually tracked it.

We are a competitive meta with WTC players and usually do well at national cons.

SR 2017 is weak.

>>53651326
Oh. Fantasy version of Reinhart, named Boss GigaNigga.

>>53651358
>8/10 games end with deathclock right now in our group. Not joking, we actually tracked it.

That's a bad thing. But I actually prefer long games and am not a fan of the clock.

Not really good for competitive, but again it's another thing I ENJOY. Sorry.

>>53651326
Source? Also, looks allot like MOW armor.

>>53650671
I kind of like not having to bring a ton of mercs in Cygnar now, but I'd like theme forces to have more allowed mercs in them. like you're in this theme force, but you can bring in 1 or 2 non theme mercs, maybe at a slightly higher price. Mercs are already highly disincentivized to bring due to the friendly factioning off basically all buffs and feats, you shouldn't be further punished for them by, as the meme goes, "playing 20pnts down".

>>53651478
Maybe that would be a good replacement for the free points. Just give every theme the following instead:

"For every 25p of in-theme models you may include 7p of out-of-theme models in this army."

Obviously these models would need to be played for.

>>53651222
Amen, and might make the game feel,more like I dunno, its taking place in a war zone? Right now I can't say I feel like I'm, charging enemy lines across no mans land with my steam powered mechs in tow. He'll I might cook up a campaign ruleset to give more of that feel and rules for s hit like mine fields and barbed wire snares

Here's my opinion on the actual theme forces and the like:

I actually feel like this could grow in a good direction. Kill me and mock me but...I actually feel the #Designspace.

I feel like PP just shot themselves in the foot, before stumbling down the stairs and shooting them in the nads by

A: Not testing the game with the fans before release.
B: Releasing theme forces too early

At the moment its seriously wounded, but not dead. if they can crawl to the med kit, and get themselves fixed up before they die, it should be better then ever.

>>53651326
Vulkan, get out of here! Go back to your Age of Gilliman bullshit!

>>53651385
>Not really good for competitive

When Steamroller is not good for competitive play, that doesn't bode well.

Just FYI, if we didn't have a deathclock in SR 2017 right now the game would probably last 4 hours or until someone got bored. Which happens anyways at this point (boredom concession).

>>53652363
>When Steamroller is not good for competitive play, that doesn't bode well.
>Just FYI, if we didn't have a deathclock in SR 2017 right now the game would probably last 4 hours

Man what's up with competitive players that they need 4 hours to finish a game.

>>53652393
>Premeasuring is allowed
>No clock to limit your premeausuring/token autism
>SR 2017 is very difficult to win on scenario (very)

Yes, games would last a long time anon.

>>53652529
>Yes, games would last a long time anon.

I don't really play competitive, but even my longest games never lasted more than 3 hours (Even with no scenario rules at all).

Is your point that unless you can't win on scenario you can't play the game faster then 4 hours?

>>53652683
More I think he means premwasuring slows the game to a standstil

>>53652725
Which is weird. I've only witnessed the opposite. But that may be because we are already sensitive regarding the time our turns take.

>>53652809
I mean, personally I can go either with it. I like it sometimes others...not so much.

>>53652683
No, not sure how you got that out of my posts.

My points are:

SR 2017 as it stands ends with clock or assassination most times. Almost all the time. In my group, it's a ton of clock outs. Clock wins are the least satisfying way to win or lose in this game.

Without clock however, given we have unlimited premeasuring, this would make players go into the tank a lot longer. His forces deathclock back on us...which takes us back to my first point.

Couple that with the spam lists we see, I can't say I'm happy with where we are headed.

>>53653095
>Without clock however, given we have unlimited premeasuring, this would make players go into the tank a lot longer.

My point is that even with pre-measuring, no clock, and even playing games without any scenario at all, our games tend to last less then 3 hours at the most and slowest.

I'm not saying clock outs are satisfying. I'm just wondering how you get them.

>>53651358
You just have slow as shit players who are probably scared to play aggressivly like little scaredy baby faggots.

>>53653235
>I'm not saying clock outs are satisfying. I'm just wondering how you get them.

Well, you just said most of your games last less than 3 hours at the most...death clock is 2 hours at most...you deploy on clock...so yes, clock outs happen...

>>53653469
>who are probably scared to play aggressivly like little scaredy baby faggots.

Shhh, the adults are speaking.

>>53653531
>Well, you just said most of your games last less than 3 hours at the most...death clock is 2 hours at most...you deploy on clock...so yes, clock outs happen...

But we play casual and the 3 hour long ones are with new players, takebacksies, and when we just decide to forget about the limited rounds.

I'm pretty sure we could burn plenty of time off without the above. But I don't think I would really care as I personally just don't enjoy timed plays.

Honestly, I just don't know when the issues begin so I can't comment. If it ends up being really bad for Scenario, Im sure PP will change it again. At the moment the scenario reception HAS been mixed (From what I have seen of the CID forums).

>>53653948
Fair enough.

It's been pretty negative in the competitive crowd. One podcast had a scenario score of 9-8 or some silliness and clocked. Seen some Twitter heat from some of the top players too.

Clock wins just suck.

Problem with the CID forums is that it gives equal voice to a guy that really puts the rules int a pressure cooker 3 times a week...as opposed to another guy that plays casual once a month and takes everything that happens as the status quo.

So whatever hsppened with Holden anyway?

>>53654180
>Problem with the CID forums is that it gives equal voice to a guy that really puts the rules int a pressure cooker 3 times a week...as opposed to another guy that plays casual once a month and takes everything that happens as the status quo.

Well that's sorta a thing: Competitive players aren't the only players. Its sorta like "Fox Only Final destination". I prefer the challenge of adjusting to things I can't control. To Terrain that's different. I do tend to turn off items, but I like the crazier terrains. I find knowing them is as part of the challenge as playing the character.

Like I DID just win a casual tourney, so I wouldn't say, Im, a total newbafggot. And to me my win with Irusk2 with a Dog against a Full HP behemoth and 5 Shocktroopers killing the butcher in a daring escape, was much more exciting then my win with Malakov 2 Just dominating a Zone.

Its just a FEEL though, so your entitled to your own.

Maybe I would be less bitter if the competitive players in my meta weren't such dicks. Or not even dicks but so singleminded. NEVER STORY SCENARIOS! NO CUSTOM TERRAIN, STEAMROLLER ONLY.....FINAL DESTINATION.

Maybe make fewer turns? I wouldn't mind fewer turns. Let's see how it pans out.

And lastly: PPS been known to respond more rapidly when they hear MASSIVE outcry. If the whole competitive tourney hates on them aggressively, Im pretty sure they would default to 2016, just out of fear.

Why do people try to play WM/H casually? It's like wanting to play a soccer game but playing hockey instead. Play literally any other game for narrative story stuff.

>>53654681
>Why do people try to play WM/H casually?

Because "Casually" is applied rather arbitrarily. It's like asking "Why do people every play Smash Brothers not on Final Destination?".

File: Madrak3 front.jpg (2MB, 3264x1840px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3264x1840px

Got my Madrak3 all painted, this was a fun one to paint.
Could do without all the little details though...

File: Madrak3 back.jpg (2MB, 3264x1840px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3264x1840px

>>53655260

File: Madrak3 shield.jpg (2MB, 3264x1840px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3264x1840px

>>53655281

>>53654681
Because, well, people like to have fun? There's more stuff in this game targeted at the casual audience than anyone else. Tourneyfags are the minority

>>53654180
>Problem with the CID forums is that it gives equal voice to a guy that really puts the rules int a pressure cooker 3 times a week...as opposed to another guy that plays casual once a month and takes everything that happens as the status quo
No it doesn't. If you think PP just goes off the untested feedback forum you're an idiot. They heavily weigh battle reports and the actual feedback form.

From there they put more weight on feedback from people who provide actual usable feedback.

The autists screeching about theme lists and don't provide actual feedback get banned pretty quick

>>53655395
Themes (in their current incarnation) are a mistake.

>>53655520
I again argue that they were released too early. The idea was to make sub-factions for every faction.

So now they mainly benefit units that already are self sufficient.

>>53655520
Even if that's true it's not relevant in any way to how CID works.

>>53655605
The problem currently is that they're clearly superior (in just about all factions) to non-theme lists, making listbuilding completely homogenous.

>>53655631
Can't I make an inane statement that doesn't add anything to the discussion? Is this still 4chan?

>>53655663
Sure, go nuts. That won't stop anyone from calling you an idiot when you do though

>>53655680
Well that's a relief. Idiocy is my security blanket.

>>53655646

...Right that was my point. If a theme allows for like 4 different types of units, its homogenous. The idea for each theme to be a own mini faction.

Also try to make a non-theme list. Just do it and be surprised at how well it still works.

>>53655722
>be surprised at how well it still works
Being a Skorne player I know it still works. However, being a Skorne player I can tell you it sucks that all opponents will play 10-20p up.