/WMG/ Warmachine and Hordes General

First for at least we're not 8e 40k.

>>53449993
Second for don't provoke the GWIDF, high school is out for the summer now

Anyone have the new Caine book? I wanted to read about how he becomes a pistol wraith. I need some new Cryx fluff

>>53449993
Eh, things look comparable at this stage.

So what kits are hard plastic at this point and are they any good?

I was looking for a Guardian recently, not sure if I should pick one up. I haven't been in the game for a while desu, but I still want to round out my Menoth

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Does the Throne of Everblight have a place in a Legion list expecting to face Cryx in the current Meta?

>>53450462
Caine doesn't become a pistol wraith.
There is a pistol wraith that resembles him and is skilled enough to kill Lynch of the Black 13th.

>>53451868

Is that the Pistol Wraith that was hanging out around Denegrah, Asphixious, Mortenebra and the crew at the Necrofactorium beneath the Thornwood?

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sup ded thread ded game

What do you think of this list i whipped up?

Havent played my Legion in ages, havent played Fyanna yet, havent used any of their themes yet and wanted to blow the dust off my Archangel.

Yeah, this is gun be great

>>53451890
No, this is something else - it's a fragment of Caine's soul that Deneghra manages to rip free, or something along those lines. I haven't read the book myself.

I was thinking of picking up some merc units for my protectorate lists. Any units or solos stand out synergy wise outside Idrians?

Thinking about picking up Reznik2, is he any good?

>tfw everyone gets cool Battle Engines and you get the melee only horsewagon featuring shitty guns.

>>53453352
The good: Great buff game, hard to kill despite base size and spell denial. Feat royally fucks up Ghost Fleet.

The bad: Battlegroup caster who isn't Amon in the same faction as Amon.

>>53453381

Which one is that one again?

oi.

i am still ass hurt they had such inspiring concept art for a character and then utterly shat on making a good mini for it.

>you should know of who i speak

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Wait a fucking minute, did they nerf the Mad Dog again?

Original mk3 Mad dog:
>7 Point
>Jury-Rigged
>Smasher
>Unstable

December 2016 Errata Mad Dog:
>9 Points
>Fleet
>Smasher
>Unstable

Command Book 2017 Mad Dog
>9 Points
>Smasher
>Unstable

>>53453444
DON'T TOUCH MY TOYS / YOU SILLY BOYS
OR I'LL BREAK YOUR SPINE / WITH MY CRAPPY STATLINE

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>>53453563
Can someone with access to War Room help me out here?

I only have books and physical cards.

>>53453352
Eye of Truth and Exemplar Interdiction exist now, taking his main trick away from him and easily applying it elsewhere.

>>53450533
All of the new renown Warjack dual kits are hard plastic. That should include the Guardian.

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>>53453698
It's just a typo anon. Unless you can find a more recent errata doc that shows otherwise.

Also it has fleet in War Room

>>53454133
Forgetting a whole box worth of rules is not a typo, it's bullshit. Especially in a 50 dollar book.

>>53453415
I've played Amon and he's fun but he's not a deep caster but he always seems to overshadow everyone else in the faction...aren't there any good alternatives?

I saw someone post in the last thread about the AFG CiD. I just needed to vent about it a little, because the screeching about how 'it's fine' and more than a few people going 'its OP, plz nerf' I don't think stopped to really think about a couple things:

- You have to consider things in context. A faction like Menoth would probably love the accurate long range shooting the AFG provides, but that doesn't matter. Its a Ret battle engine, and this is in a faction where 85%+ of their jacks shoot. The AFG's most powerful shot is often the banshee gun (because RAT fixing is a thing)
- In all my games with the AFG, I don't think it overperformed once. The whole CiD cycle was 'the AFG still isn't good, but isn't as shitty, so yay?'

Seriously though, I think that the AFG's place will be in Defenders of Ios for free points (since theme forces are how they're doing the game now, and I could go on another whole damn rant about that), but a lot of the other battle engines, assuming they make it intact, are going to make the game nuts.

But the AFG will likely sit on the shelf, and I'm not too thrilled with it in Defenders of Ios either.

Thoughts on the AFG in particular from others? I'm well aware I could be off base, but having played with the damn thing for a while, at no point was I ever impressed with it. If I had to sum up my experience, the AFG wants casters that fix its problems, but I don't think Ret casters want the AFG quite yet. Or if this is likely the final version, probably not for a while.

>>53454195
You knew it was out date before you bought it and you know future stuff will get errata. If you bought the book for the rules you're a moron

>>53454300
I've got an AFG sitting around but never really get a chance to play the damn game with decent people. But I plan on giving it a try with either Kaelyssa or Rahn sometime next weekend.

It looks cool on paper, but then I remember all the times I've relied on a charging Banshee's swords over its gun and realize just how much it trades away for that second shot and damage types.

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http://privateerpress.com/press-releases/privateer-press-to-sponsor-penny-arcade-plays-warmachine
Well this is a thing I guess

>>53455356
Good. Now a company whose business sense can only be described as vomitous can be associated with a comic whose artstyle can only be described as vomitous.

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>>53455356
What the fuck does Penny Arcade even do these days? I get the impression they're some sort of bizarre geek culture conglomerate, but I haven't paid attention to anything under their brand in about a decade.

>>53455356
https://www.twitch dot tv/videos/144607874
I guess this is probably the get-together that got the idea of doing a series rolling around in their heads.

Might be nice to watch some people who aren't the local misanthropic grognards push warjacks around for an hour every week.

>tfw there will never again be a batrep as good as wargamergirl's

>>53455924
Don't you want to watch Advanced Maneuvers so you can see Xekaar with EIGHT Rhinodons win a game?

>>53455924

I feel like I'm missing a story here

>>53454286
If you're looking for a caster who runs nothing but a battlegroup and some support, the only caster in the whole game who competes with Amon is Harkevich. And while I think Harkevich has a slight edge in the head-to-head matchup, Amon probably plays better into the field due to packing spell hate and ranged hate basically for free.

And he's probably the best caster in Protectorate, but Kreoss1 and especially High Reclaimer are also generally considered top-tier casters.

>>53455924
I would love to record some reps in her style, but it's just way too much fucking work. Especially if I only got a hundred views for it.

>>53455043
What's pretty goddamned hilarious about that was that point was brought up multiple times in the CiD cycle (a Banshee was only one point more, and most every game I took the AFG I'd rather have the Banshee instead, because the gun was about as powerful, and you got the rest of a Banshee when shooting didn't really work anymore).

I still kind of hold to that, personally. A Banshee just does so much for you.

They should stop being so arrogant in the CID. Will pastrami is acting like an entitled count on there and Facebook.

>>53457336
*cough*Karchev*cough*

>>53458052
why do some people have pink names in the CID?

>>53458992
Harkevich > Karchev

Feat nerf murdered Karchev.

>>53451868
Whatever. I still want to read the shitty book.

>>53455924
Except Advanced Manuvers wich has a fixed camera so you can see where the fuck everything is

>>53455924
>Trevor
>MrMalorian
>Arcane Assist
>WarroomPL
>ComboSmite
>(the latter are in real-time)
There certainly are a bunch that are better than her. Not in production value but in overall quallity.

>>53451524
Based on the lack of smarter people than me not responding already, I'm gonna take a guess.

The answer is a solid maybe. It depends on your caster choices and the specific threats you face. I'd bet it can much on Banez pretty good as well as grabbing support solos etc.

But its a big investment that has a hard time killing warjacks. Its not incapable, but niche.

I'd assume it can work if you want to make it work and pick a caster who synergizes with it.

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I would like to help out more with questions, but I only play one faction and at most know two well enough to give advice on.

My Legion matchup knowledge for example is exactly two games.

>>53456408

I don't need someone to record dumbasses playing shit lists, plenty of them around IRL.

>>53449854

Thinking of dropping out of the game. Would it be better to try selling it in a flooded market or just boxing it up and hoping one day it will fetch something better than 30% value?

>>53453444
>literally have no clue
Reinholdt pin-up...?

>>53458052
Count Pagani of Baldsylvania

>>53459752
Each of them has their flaws. Either the table is shitty, the commentary is awkward, the minis are unpainted, no editing is done, editing is horrible, players are too pro or too noobish etc. Miranda is the only one that had it all.

>>53464116
>players are too pro
Excuse me, what?

The mental gymnastics of CiD amuse me. PP would like the testers' job to be finding way to justify their bullshit while the testers want actual improvement but are verified with the highest scrutiny to ensure that they conform so they must resort to doublespeak and mind games to get PP to actually fix shit.

>>53464191
As in trying too hard. Bringing a boring competitive list and then playing it very conservatively while being clearly not amused.

>>53464222
That's not a deal-breaker to me. I want battle reports that I can learn something from, so "competitive lists, played as they should be" is precisely right.

>>53464116
This, but there's also partyfoul-quality (which is all of the shit things you've mentioned combined)

>>53464222
Those batreps do suck. It's a combination of man-ass too big to fit in the camera frame, and sheer lack of showmanship.

>>53464317
Cool story bro, but the rest of the planet wants some entertainment value out of it. Miranda was insightful with solid commentary, and her cinematographer knew how to bring a consistently dynamic feel to a turn-based game.

>>53464443
How the fuck anyone gives them views is beyond me. Their shit attitudes toward the community is fucking toxic, and when this is brought up they get even more defensive. This goes beyond their shitposting on Reddit and their own site-they've been featured on podcasts and they are just as terrible to hear as they are to read. Their guest spot was enough to get me to unsubscribe from Moosemachine (already going downhill when they hosted another pile of shit - menothjon).

Since I'm ranting anyway: why do most podcasts resort to constant crass language and gay jokes? Are you really struggling for content to the point you want to pretend to be your own little "morning zoo" radio show? Can't you make a point without sounding like a goddamn socially inept retard. Wtf happened to production value? If I hear a dog barking or kid screaming in the background, I'll never listen to your shit again.

That's all, folks!

>>53465160
>Cool story bro, but the rest of the planet wants some entertainment value out of it. Miranda was insightful with solid commentary, and her cinematographer knew how to bring a consistently dynamic feel to a turn-based game.
Yeah, I'll take interesting games over "entertainment value" anytime.

>>53465267
Keep growing that beard out, soon you can hide behind it and no one will notice your receding hairline!

>>53465319
If you seriously have trouble seeing why other people might have other priorities than you, I am certainly not the neckbeard here.

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>>53465357
Stick to your guns!

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>>53465160
>How the fuck anyone gives them views is beyond me.
I remember when I first came across them. I was just looking for a video that explains power attacks and that one video was actually helpful to me, so I saved them in my brain as positive experience and wondered about all the downvotes they get on reddit.

But then, I tried to watch a video they made about some kind of errata and what I saw was the beardless guy starring into nothingness, saying a line, asking the guy behind the camera what the line was again and repeating that for 30 minutes before moving on to the next sentence.

Didn't take much longer for me to understand that their production value (editing, scripts, sound, video and even thumbnails) had been awful forever and every time they get called out for it, they throw a huge hissy fit.

What a bunch of assholes, how are they affording to run their shitty website for like three years?

>>53465956
I think making a decent angle battle report is pretty easy.

A: Have the camera at the side. You want to take sides and see everything relative to one another.
B: Just use a solid white light above the camera pointed in its direction. Any shadows cast will be away from the camera. If you set it at a right angle it won't blind you but will illuminate the field.

>>53465956
>how are they affording to run their shitty website for like three years?

conflictanon here.

I recently upgraded the hosting I have on Conflict Chamber, adding a virtual private server to be able to handle more complex stuff on the back-end so it's easier for me to do some of the more sophisticated stuff on event submission and location.

This brought the monthly outlay on Conflict Chamber from $5 to $8.50.

Running a website is cheap.

Now, the *time* I've put into Conflict Chamber, is worth something, but just keeping the website up is pretty cheap these days.

>>53466436
Thank you for being awesome, Conflictanon!

... btw, how do I remove lists in the new interface?

>>53466607
The X in the toolbar, or ctrl-X is the keyboard shortcut.

I need some help, looking at buying some warsticks from broken egg.

http://www.brokenegggames.com/warsticks.html

What does the option "Matching AMG and EMT?" mean

>>53455924
Look up House of Dice. He does practically the same shit that WGG did, although he is also infrequent in uploads.

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RPG book says that Skorne make leather from these niggas.

I wish my clothes were made out of worm.

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Is Arkadius taking a Gorax or a Battle Boar for Primal?

>>53470853
That's all they're good for. Fucking useless model on the table.

>>53471719

...sigh.

Hexeris1 Soul Slave (deep threat warlock, offensive debuffer, likes to hot-swap upkeeps all over the table), Hexeris 2 Channeling(the same) - Has double control range and a half-inch melee range.

>dammit /WMG/, git gud at the fucking game already

>>53454393

I bought the book as a penance for stealing everything from this thread all through mk2, only they made the rules free for mk3.

>>53472916
You need to L2P, shitter.

- Hexeris1 can't afford to cycle Soul Slave in mk3 because Marketh can't rebuff it anymore. Any turn Hexeris has to cycle his arc node is a turn he can't spend tossing out spells. This means if you're going to use a long leash Warbeast to Soul Slave instead of a Sentry or Brute you use an Archidon which costs all of 3pts more, moves faster, more survivable, more agile with Flight, and if push comes to shove is a POW17 heavy warbeast so it poses a decent threat to most shit in the game. For 3 pts. Nobody with half a brain uses Razor Worms anymore with Hex1 post errata because the Archidon is so much fucking better.

- Hexeris2. Again, nobody with a fucking brain uses Razor Worms when Archidons are 3pts more and a million times more efficient.

>>53472916
>- Has double control range and a half-inch melee range.

Ironic how you say git gud and don't know the rules. A channeler's melee range doesn't matter, channeler's can engage targets and channel spells without penalty.

Channeling is prevented by BEING ENGAGED, which means your enemy needs your model to be in their melee range, not yours.

Razor worms are awful btw, maybe you should git gud retard.

>>53465956
The pinnacle of miniature gaming.

That high quality terrain.
Those painted models.

Might as well fucking play Vassal.

>>53473702
Oh come on, the terrain is fine (design, not placement)

All this table needs are terrain setup and one of these table mats.

>>53473702
What do your games look like?

>>53473702
>>53474020

Personally I've been making actual 3D terrain because I've gotten entirely sick of flat neopreen boards.

Magnetising all the pieces so you can pull the terrain off the base when models need to move into the terrain.

>>53473870
Nah, that game looks like shit.

>>53474062
2d terrain has been of the worst things for the game. Warmachine was never much to look at it anyways it's a glorified board game at this point but when even terrain went into Vassal territory..well it's a joke now.

>>53473372

You need to play the things you are complaining about, shitter. You don't cycle soul-slave (ever), you channel Parasite and swap Death March if you need to.

>>53473432

"In melee" slipped into the mental cubby-hole at some point, happens.

>>53474450
>You need to play the things you are complaining about, shitter. You don't cycle soul-slave (ever), you channel Parasite and swap Death March if you need to.

You know when you need to cycle Soul Slave? When your opponent kills your squishy piece of shit light warbeast, idiot. That's why nobody with a brain runs worms with Hexeris.

Hexeris cannot afford to get his Arc Node killed. He cannot treat them as disposable because it will set his spell offense back for an entire turn. People who aren't shitters, aka people who aren't you, treat his arc node the same way Mk2 Hex2 treated his. You stick it on a durable beast like a Sentry or a Brute because you could not afford to get it killed ever. The Archidon is a safe alternative to that, the Razor Worm is how you make your warlock useless for a turn while he replaces a dead arc node.

>>53474450

> Bad at the game
> Doesn't know the rules
> Still tries to talk shit
> Shitter confirmed

>>53471719

It has uses.

The question is, is it even worth it to take it?

Aren't most Skorne lists just a brick of heavies these days?

>>53476622
Everything it does is handled better by an Archidon post errata. There is no reason to ever put this model on the table barring you are too poor to afford an Archidon model.


>Aren't most Skorne lists just a brick of heavies these days?

Outside of Zaal, largely. Titans are the faction's best application of force, backed up by various support beasts or mid range stuff like Archidons.

As far as warrior units go, Ferox are solid with a couple of casters, Reivers are good with anybody. Nihilators are worthless outside of 2 trashtier casters, but they don't elevate the casters out of the dumpster so you'll never see them.

Karax have a place as cheap filler if you ever find a reason to want it, they're ok as a unit. Swordsmen work with a couple of casters but when it comes down it they normally get overlooked. Either you bring a warbeast that does their job, or they're too expensive and you just wanted something cheap like Karax.

Keltarii continue their honourable tradition of being a solid turd.

If the battle engine comes out of CID as it finished the final week it'll be played with alot of casters, it's actually pretty fucking good.

You'll mostly see Titan herds with various supports. The variations of the lists will mostly sub Ferox, Reivers, or very occasionally Swordsmen or Karax in for specific reasons.

Zaal is the biggest deviation from the norm who can do it without being fuck awful.

>>53476776

Is an Ancestral army of Immortals, Ancestral Guardians and Hakaar the Destroyer viable with Zaal now?

>>53476884
You can't really do zero living models anymore since the Mk2 tier went away. Bringing like 10-20 living models is enough to sort everything out assuming they don't get RFP'd.

>>53477044

Well ideally you'd want some living models with a mostly Ancestral army wouldn't you?

You need them for Soul token generation don't you?

>>53451524
Yes, caster dependant.
It's made for mulching infantry, which Cryx has a lot of. It also has RFP which will help with the recursion.

>>53477323
I meant this in reference to the CID Throne. The current Throne is utter shit.

>>53477261
Mk2 tier had a bonus where your extollers started with alot of souls so you could just palm most of them out to the AGs at the start of the game and Zaal would top them off each turn. So it was possible to do nothing but immortals+AGs for the bulk of your army.

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Should the Revenant Cannon Crew only be used in hordes match ups?

Also, how is it that the Skorne Catapult has more power than the Cryx Ghost Cannon does? I would have thought that the cannon would have hit harder given it was more advanced?

GREETINGS
I HAVE LORE QUESTIONS
WARMACHINE SPECIFIC ONES

1.) how are steam jacks made?
1a.) if the different factions do it differently how so?

2.) how are they controlled?

3.) how are they powered(unless it is just "with steam lol")?

4.) can they be programmed?

5.) do they develop quirks in behavior like dominant handedness, or non-target object tracking?

6.) are they capable of self repair?

7.) do they come in shapes that aren't "hunchbacked humanoids"

8.) approximate capacities?(overland speed, long duration(cargo) carry capacity, etc.)

9.) in the lore, did any one specific faction create them FIRST and what did the imbalance of power look like?

10.) are there any non-combat specialty use jacks? (is there a "thieves special" or a "machinists helper")

any other neat details?
any cool hordes things that might matter?

>>53477685
It must be some sort of angry ghost catapult.

>>53477748

> angry ghost catapult

It would be funny if they bound a Void Spirit to a projectile then fired it at someone.

I can just imagine the projectile streaking by with a laughing Skorne face till it hits something.

Plus, I think they could actually get away with building that as Void Spirts aren't off limits for experimentation like other things are.

>>53477728

1) Steamjacks are built with a variety of hydraulics and steam power and whatnot. They each have a magical "brain" called a cortex which controls them. These cortexes are made using a variety of precious metals and alchemical processes and plates inscribed with magical runes. The quality and complexity of the cortex determines the intelligence of the jack with military grade ones being the most advanced and somewhere around the intelligence of a particularly smart dog.

2) They can be controlled through verbal commands and gestures. Warcasters can make a direct link with a jack's cortex and command them mentally.

3) Most jacks use a steam boiler, though some more advanced ones are being made that utilize electrical power. Iosan myrmidons are able to convert ambient magical energy into storable energy to run on.

4) They do have built in knowledge and whatnot, but a cortex is more like a magical brain than a computer. They automatically have all the information they need, but "reprogramming" them would require direct alteration of the jack's cortex.

5) Yes. This is the concept behind many character jacks such as Ol' Rowdy or Beast 09.

6) Some, though they are unusual.

7) There are some that are non-humanoid (such as cryxian bonejacks or the crabjacks), but generally, they are humanoid.

8) Depends heavily on the type of jack. There are some that are small and speedy, others that are big and slow.

9) The history of steamjacks is complicated, but long story short, the time between their initial creation (by Cygnar) and their adoption by other nations was not long and did not result in any longterm power imbalance.

10) Laborjacks (steamjacks built for labor, obviously) are quite widespread and used in any industry involving heavy labor (dock work, mining, logging, etc.).

>>53477957
>cortexes

Shouldn't it be cortices?

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>>53477728
1.) Basically all of them are made in factories and exactly how you would imagine in your head (see pic)
1a.) Retribution and Cryx Jacks are made differently, don't know much so google it.

2.) The Warcasters (powerful battle wizards) control them over something called the cortex. The cortex is a magical-mechanical brain that allows those with the Warcaster spark to control and enhance them in combat.

3.) With some kind of motor or oven. It can be steam, coal or how cryx does it, souls.

4.) cortexes make them as intelligent or a smart dog, so they can be trained to a minor degree (Jack Marshals for example are people who can control jacks despite not being Warcasters by giving them orders and commands).

5.) Yes, cortexes develop and learn over time, which is why old jacks that are assigned to specific Warcasters over and over absorb part of it's controllers personality. It's even possible for them to develop traumas.

6.) No, not without help from outside. The elves of Ios for example have self-regenerating energy shields. Convergence Vectors do, but they are technically not warjacks.

7.) Cryx has jacks formed as birds and spiders, though most all of them are humanoid.

8.) Depends on the faction. The whole point of warjacks, is that they are strong enough to carry weapon which would be too cumbersome and/or big for normal humans to carry, so they are very strong (in terms of profile, a human has an average Strength of 5, while a Warjack's goes from 10 upwards).

9.) The first Warjacks are called Colossals and were made by the human nations of the continent to free themselves from a race called the Orgoth, who conquered the land with evil magic. The colossals were abandoned due to their impractical sizes and turned into the smaller warjacks. As to who and why, the Dwarfs of Rhul showed humanity how to build cortexes.

10.) Yes. Warjack is basically just the term for "weaponized Steamjack with a smarter cortex". Laborjacks are common in most nations.

>>53478063
Nope. They spell it 'cortexes' in the fluff.

>>53478083
Cortii.

>>53477957
>1)
this data is useful and I thank you for it, however to clarify I meant methods of construction.

Are they artisanal crafts, mass produced, or some mix?
Batch or continuous production?
automated construction?
are there any good fluff-text descriptions I can look up for ideas on wording so I can make this interesting to some of my players[in a TTRPG] ?

>2) noted
2a.) mental control
does this mean that the warcaster can directly supplant the "particularly smart dog" or just that they can be assured that the dog won't misinterpret?

>3) noted
which book or army-list might have the flavor text for these 'myrmidons'?

>4)
>direct physical access to alter
noted, and valued.

>5)
I was aware of Deathjack but also aware that cryx units may run on different standards

>8)
noted
are there any reasonable Benchmarks I might look at?

>9)
noted.
>damn I don't have a good example to look at my game for

>10)
I see, so they aren't mill-tech only

>>53478069
>1
>cryx and retribution
I shall have to inquire further...

>4)
>training required for the jack
I can work with this

>5)
>age makes personality

>9)
>collosals
were they sized to mach this title?
additionally this implies that the dwarfs had jack-tech for some time but leads to the conclusion that they are or were an insular group like the feudal Japanese

thank you gentlemen, this will help me fairly significantly. I am not making a game set in this universe but I would like to make use of certain themes present in it. this information will (hopefully) greatly assist me in producing a better gaming experience for my players. I will still need to simulate or find an example of a power imbalance that might help me with the changing politics of such an advantageous technological breakthrough, but that should be easier or so I hope.

>>53478345
>>53478083
>>53478063
stop being silly with plurals
this is how we had a fistfight between two mathematicians over "math versus maths"
it only leads to conflict

>>53477957
>Iosan myrmidons are able to convert ambient magical energy into storable energy to run on.
It tickles me that the cranky, genocidal elves of Warmachine still managed to invent renewable energy before everyone else.

>>53478435
>1)
a mix, some are mass produced, some of the named jacks are hand made. Particularly ones like the Avatar (hand made by artisans under the supervision of a literal prophet) and the Thunderhead (made by the setting's Tesla as a prototype)

>2)
the warcaster can essentially see through the eyes of the jack and control it directly, they can also push it to use abilities or go beyond it's normal operating limits

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>>53478069

>1a.) Retribution and Cryx Jacks are made differently, don't know much so google it.

>>53476776
I firmly believe that Nihilators are a strong choice with Mordikaar. Provided your opponent actually has infantry to munch through (and sometimes even if they don't), by throwing them forwards you force him into a catch-22 situation of choosing between 1) killing the Nihilators and facing an up to 17 fury assassination caster next turn, or 2) watching Nihilators munch through his infantry. Don't forget, base STR7 means POW12 Essence Blasts. I honestly don't even think Nihilators are that bad. They do a similar job to Karax in gumming the board up, but instead of Set Defense and Girded, you get +1DEF and tough. If we had a 4 point support model that could give a unit +2MAT +2PS and tough, would you use it? Because that's pretty much what you get when you pack Nihilators in a situation where you'd consider Karax. As a guy who frequently puts tough on his Karax with his Willbreaker, that's a pretty fuckin' sweet deal.

Don't get me wrong I don't think they're some sort of god tier unit in a vacuum like Dawnguard Sentinels are, but that's the rut Skorne is stuck in right now; most things are good with certain casters and in the right situation. Nihilators are one such thing.

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>>53478435
>Are they artisanal crafts, mass produced, or some mix?

Warjacks at least are mass produced. There are also plenty of civilian mechanics building and maintaining laborjacks. Technology isn't advanced enough for automated construction. Pic related for some fine Khadoran mechaniks constructing a Kodiak for use in the Motherland's righteous wars against the southern dogs.

>does this mean that the warcaster can directly supplant the "particularly smart dog" or just that they can be assured that the dog won't misinterpret?
Warcasters can augment their jacks' capabilities by more directly guiding their actions, though this requires concentration.

>which book or army-list might have the flavor text for these 'myrmidons'?
Retribution of Scyrah.

>are there any reasonable Benchmarks I might look at?
The warjack entries in the Forces books have some specs such as fuel load and operational times, but I don't know about things like carrying capacity and the like.

>were they sized to mach this title?
Colossals, especially the original ones, were designed as mobile siege engines. Something that could walk up to an Orgoth fortress and tear it down.

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>>53478435
>I shall have to inquire further...
Two of the games's factions, none of which I play unfortunately.

>were they sized to mach this title?
see pic for generation 1 colossals

>additionally this implies that the dwarfs had jack-tech for some time but leads to the conclusion that they are or were an insular group like the feudal Japanese
I don't know all the details, since I haven't read the mercenary stuff about Rhul, but basically. Rhulfolk in current time likes to be neutral and conduct trade with the bigger nations, which is why their own warjacks are either all protypes or converted laborjacks, rather than real warmachine. Rhul itself hasn't mobilized a war as of yet, meaning it's unknown what their engineers could do if they had to.

During the orgoth occupation, Rhul was hesitant about giving their secrets to humanity, due to the power this weapon possessed.

>>53476884
One of the UK's top Skorne players swears by Zaal1. His list is Krea, double Archidon, double Immortals with UA, double AG, Hakaar, Handlers, and a sprinkling of support or some Karax or something. Archidons rolling 4 dice to hit tend to crit.

>>53478069
>As to who and why, the Dwarfs of Rhul showed humanity how to build cortexes.

That's actually wrong. Elias Decklan, a human, was the first to design the Cerebral Matrix (predecessor to the cortex) and the first colossals. Cortexes were created by streamlining and miniaturizing the original Cerebral Matrix (like comparing a modern computer to one from the 60's).

The dwarves assisted in the creation of the colossals (primarily through supplying the raw materials necessary to build them) in exchange for the technical knowledge behind their creation (as well as how to manufacture blasting powder).

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>>53478069

>1a.) Retribution and Cryx Jacks are made differently, don't know much so google it.

>>53478683
Listen to this man, anon with many questions.

My (>>53478069 >>53478573) knowledge of the Orgoth stuff and Rhul is very limited at best.

>>53478435
From what I remember, the original Colossals were only good for siege warfare, which worked because the Orgoth loved to build fortified citadels everywhere.

>>53478563

>Colossals, especially the original ones, were designed as mobile siege engines. Something that could walk up to an Orgoth fortress and tear it down.

The exception to that are the Retribution and Cryx ones aren't they?

I've read the Retribution one was made to combat Dragons and I've read the the Cryx ones were used to terrorize the seas and coastal areas.

>>53478864
Weren't the colossals of Cryx and Ios made long after the Colossal vs Orgoth business happened?

None of the colossal models we have right now are the old colossals after all, they are entirely new inventions.

>>53478521
Yes, they're decent with Mordikaar, the problem is Mordikaar is fucking terrible and they're only decent. They don't elevate Mordikaar out of the trashcan.

If Mordikaar turned into a good caster overnight it would actually make the Nihilators useful. Until then (or if Morghoul3 stops sucking dicks) they'll be stuck in the shelf for most people.

>>53478903
Mordikaar isn't that great, but being on ADR is a really big deal, especially when he pairs well with Zaadesh2 who is both on it and a very strong caster. Most tournaments are also D&C0 these days which again plays into Mordikaar's favour. 40 points of specialists can turn any garbage list into a solid one. It helps that Mordikaar has an alright game against Denny1 Ghost Fleet too.

>>53478521

Also to answer your question, no I wouldn't pay fucking points for that. The job of Karax is to be cheap as fuck and die, not to spend points on a UA for them. If they're with a caster that can sling them a useful buff like Xerxis or Zaal so they pose a threat on a certain turn, then that's a bonus. Otherwise their only goal is to inhabit ground and get in the way a little bit while the rest of the army does the fighting, and potentially a couple of them can hang out with the paingivers and stop them from being picked off by drifting blasts.

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>>53478896

Well in the case of the Kraken, it isn't exactly "new" and has been around for centuries.

Same with the Hyperion, though I'm not sure if the Hyperion was even inspired by Colossals.

>>53478941
Or, I could take Rasheth who habitually takes a steaming shit all over Denny Ghost Fleet instead of garbage tier Mordikaar.

>>53479045
And is actually a good caster. Unlike Mordikaar. He's only got that going for him too, kek.

>>53479045
>Heh, I'll drop some Breath of Corruptions on your continually respawning infantry, kiddo ;^)
And then Anon lost on scenario because he was using a SPD4 caster that can't charge and never wants to run.

>>53479100

If you're a fucking tard and are allowing Denny to walk up the board instead of blowing her off it as soon as she shows her face, sure.

Oh, and there's only the small thing of she basically can't contribute to the fight the entire game because she can't arc, and if she comes close enough to personally cast her spells she dies.

>>53479008
Uuuh, neat. Thanks anon.

>>53479241
Then perhaps my problem was that me and my opponent did terrain using a modicum of common sense and put a forest somewhere near the middle of the board that he ended up using to hide Denny from my Mammoth last time I played Rasheth v Ghost Fleet. And because he could hide his caster, there was ZERO way for me to win without getting lucky. Fortunately I tempted Denny out by offering her a tasty Mammoth, then my opponent forgot Master Tormentors have Sprint so can still move up to 10" under Denny's feat to get in range for spells. Bitch took two huge Sunder Spirits to the cunt flaps.

And you know what? The time I beat Ghost Fleet with Mordikaar felt like a much safer assassination. I only won with Rasheth because my opponent forgot something, but Mordikaar just piled shit on her while still being able to threaten a scenario game, whereas Rasheth literally cannot scenario. LITERALLY.

It's so easy to look at Mordikaar's card and think he does nothing. I did it for the longest time.

>>53479482
Why the fuck are you using a mammoth with him you fucking idiot rofl. Rasheth does better with a pair of Cannoneers for less cost. Next you'll tell me you didn't have any Reivers or Slingers either.

You know what you do to hit her with spells if she hides in a forest? Run your arc infantry into the forest so they can see out the other side. Oh boy, that was hard.

I found your problem, you're bad and don't know how to make a good Skorne list.

>>53479482
If she's hiding behind a forest all game she's not doing jack shit. She can't arc (assuming you remembered to breathe and cast Castigate). Put your Chaffe in the Zone, or hell dump a Sentry in it. If she won't show her face to debuff the sentry Revenant crew can't do shit to it, and if she does show her face to cast she dies in retaliation.

>>53479482
Denny vs Rasheth is the same as Caine3 vs Rasheth. Both casters need to go hard on personal resources and get within Rasheth's threat range or their army can't deal with Rasheth's.

If they make a move to do work, Rasheth kills them even if they get alot of work done. If they don't make a move to do work, then Rasheth's army has the upper hand.

>>53479629
My list was pulled off discountgames, minus swapping one PGMT for a Willbreaker. But I'm sure those goalposts can be moved.

What if Skorne's real problem is that everyone else's lists are 20 points bigger?

>>53479744
Plenty of shit lists on DG.

BUT that's not the case here. You're both full of shit, and a complete fucking retard.

Firstly you're full of shit because there's exactly ONE Rasheth list on DG listed for 2017. Surprise surprise there isn't a fucking Mammoth in it.

Secondly you're a fucking retard for thinking nobody would take 5 seconds to check and call you out on your bullshit.

>>53479744
So, once Skorne gets good themes, they will break everything?

>>53474535
>>53474563

Guess what shitter- NOBODY EVER FUCKING BOTHERS TO KILL THE (not squishy at all) RAZORWORM. (Seriously, ever.)

Now go on about how the Archidon is better in all ways, after you've gone and got it killed doing things other than being hexy1's channel-beast.

>thinks hexy1 swaps soul slave
>or at least was the first thing that came to mind when hexy1 spell swapping was mentioned
>probably hasn't gotten a single game in with him since he got parasite
>maybe not even before then if he ignored death march
>talking shit about models he never plays

>>53479834

Whats wrong with their current theme?

>>53479830
No one cares enough about this shit to lie on the internet, so if it's not on there it was either removed or I was mistaken. You don't even fucking know what the list was so this is retarded. I never even said anything about 2017.

>>53479914
Skorne has always been a melee-centric faction. We had to wait 6 more months for our faction to get ported over to Mk3, and now we have to sit and wait with a single theme list while everyone else is rocking 3, and that one theme list runs contrary to how Skorne as a faction has always worked. It feels like spit in the face after spit in the face.

>>53479914
I don't think the theme itself is a problem at all (not a Skorne player btw), but I think they should've gotten Beasts as their first theme for thematic reasons alone.

Having the option to rock all the cool looking Titans models from the get-go and cash rewards for that sounds like something that would draw people into Skorne (and would probably be more useful).

A ranged theme for a faction with Machamp-elephant crossbreeds as their pin-ups? Seems really strange.

>>53479973
>No one cares enough about this shit to lie on the internet, so if it's not on there it was either removed or I was mistaken. You don't even fucking know what the list was so this is retarded. I never even said anything about 2017.

So you were trying to talk about playing a pre errata list... the point about you being a retard still stands.

>>53479905

> Plays against bads who don't kill his important models
> Doesn't know the rules
> Tries to talk shit
> Shitter confirmed

fucking kek!

>>53479914
Right now this instant? Alot really.

People were getting good mileage out of it with the CID changes to the SA though, so that's nice I guess.

>>53480027
Yes, I'm sure that Titans which were either untouched or nerfed in the errata are now better than a Mammoth. Oh wait you think +1RAT on the Cannoneer is better than a beast that can boost the fuck out of every roll it makes? You think Soulwards aren't at their best supporting a model like that over a pair of Cannoneers? Or Willbreakers? And if things comes down to melee, Cannoneers do very little compared to a Mammoth.

You know what, I'm spitting this bait out.

>>53480088

Doesn't understand how combined FURY6 can do more work than FURY5, or how having a potential 20" threat range on a caster that threatens spell slinging assassination, or being able to reliably aim and go to RAT7 against targets makes, or having greater board coverage from 2 models that can fire on two parts of the board at once is better than lugging a giant shitty mammoth along with a caster that doesn't like bringing them.

Just how bad are you anon?

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>tfw you have three great themes
>but Assault Kommandos still suck

JUST

>>53480990

I thought their problem was that anti-infantry stuff isn't really big in this edition given infantry aren't really on the table as much as they used to be?

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>>53481072
Their main problem is that they can't do what they were designed for: Fighting trenchers

Trenchers out-threaten them by 0,5", they don't have Pathfinder so they can't actually charge things in trenches and their anti-tough grenade has to hit in order to work, which is a lot to ask against DEF 17.

So on fluff alone, they fail. Other shortcomings include:
- DEF 12 is piss-poor
- Expensive (they cost more than Pikemen/Kayazy)
- Bad single shot guns
- No tricks (like a minifeat)
- The Flamethrower got nerfed to hell (no Assault and no explosion)

They don't look that bad on paper, especially for people who don't play Khador and I can see why, but their seemingly pretty cool anti-infantry toolkit is nothing short of a mess on the battlefield.

>>53481274

>Fighting trenchers

I remember someone saying that was their problem as Trenchers are hardly ever seen on the table.

>>53480990
Why did she put on eyeliner?

>>53481618
Because it brings out her eyes.

>>53481618
She wanted Strakhov-senpai to notice her.

>>53481367
There is a broken theme coming, so anti-trenchers could've been super relevant.

But replacing "Trenchers" with either tough infantry or just infantry in cover (or both, at worst) has the same meaning.

The have less oomph than Winter Guard or Pikemen and are more expensive in exchange for some elemental resistance. Aside from a Warcaster, they also have no support whatsoever, unlike Winter Guard or Pikemen.

>>53481935
They just also don't combine well to use all of their Toolkit.

Who cares about Anti-Toughing A target when you could just shoot it and then charge it?

>>53482055
Yeah, now that you mention it, I feel like the old grenade that lowered DEF would work a lot better than this tough stuff.

>>53478444
The elves didn't really invent anything. Every advanced piece of technology was literally handed down to them by their gods.

>>53482415
>Skorne literally invented everything they have
>Including their own magic
How much more based can a faction get?

>>53482391
It's also dumb.

"Hit the Target so you can hit the target easier"

It really depends on what angle they want. It could just benefit from some lower tier effect if you could just throw a grenade that could scatter, or if they removed the cloud effect if their afraid of cloud walls, or have the effect be more powerful if it requires a direct hit.

>>53482648
>"Hit the Target so you can hit the target easier"
And people call me retarded when I say Venator Slingers are shit for this reason.

>>53482672
At least they have other shot types. I think the idea is "Because of AD they can be closer to targets to ignore stealth and designate them for hits from larger weapons from a range"

Not GREAT, but at least the other shot types exist and they are cheaper.

>>53482718
But yes its still dumb on them.

>>53482648
>or if they removed the cloud effect if their afraid of cloud walls

... It doesn't even make a cloud... It's just a AOE 3 gas effect...

>>53482461

I think the Iosan stuff may be as advanced as it seems.

Didn't they lose a perfectly working Hyperion, a machine that can, in theory, take out a dragon, to a partially wounded Mammoth?

>>53483143
>Didn't they lose a perfectly working Hyperion, a machine that can, in theory, take out a dragon, to a partially wounded Mammoth?

Yes, "in theory" the Starburst Cannon is powerful enough to seriously wound a dragon.

>>53483143
The Hyperion is designed to shoot at dragons en masse, not fight one on one. Remember, the last time Is tangoed with a dragon it took a significant portion of their military and the destruction of one of their more populated cities just to seal him away, and that was the weakest of them.

>>53483143

>I think the Iosan stuff may be as advanced as it seems.

*may not be.

>>53483202
>>53483222

Are there even that many of them to begin with?

I notice the first one the Skorne demolished seems to have been the last seen during their invasion.

My LGS is running a league that starts at 20 points. What would people run with? Fnding it hard to start anything interesting here at all.

>>53459026
They're "exemplars" it means they've given good feedback in previous Cid cycles. I'm beginning to suspect it's just people who agree with them the most tho lol

>>53482415
>>53482461
Back to your sandpit, Skorneposters.

So Ghost Fleet has crushed another con, the second this month, with Tim Banky winning Masters, Champions, and the Team Tournament with Denny1/Coven Ghost Fleet. Tim also won the SOO earlier this month

I thought Cryx was garbage tier guys?

>>53483956
How much does Ghost Fleet care about RFP

>>53484025
A lot. It's the best answer to the list and no one is teching for it

>>53483446
Vyros was a dick and rounded most of them up to go beyond Ios' boarders leaving very few to guard the gates.

>>53484184

Why do they even need those beyond the borders of Ios?

It's not very secretive when you're walking around with something that large.

Though I suppose Iosans are trying to claim Ley Lines as well, despite that ending poorly for the last bunch who tried.

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>>53484117
TROLLBLOODS WILL RISE
BAND OF HEROES+FENNBLADES=MAXIMUM RFP

>>53484212
If I remember right is was to reclaim Nyssor, but I could be wrong. Haven't read that bit of fluff in a while.

>>53483911
Hey, it's not our fault the elves needed their hands held like a race of toddlers. I'll just be over not blowing up half a continent trying to do things best left alone.

Magnus3 when? New non shit merc caster when?

>>53482935
Oh...Then Never Fucking Mind! Give it something great then! Have it be a thrown large area Grenade!

>>53484213

Yep, every one will suddenly say Trolls are fine because one of their Themes can take the current brokeness in the game.

It's been like this since Mk 2. At first I thought it was coincidence, then I realized PP is just incompetent.

Or they are really competent, push broken shit for sales (Una Griffons) then patch it up.

>>53484424
merc partisan maybe. Magnus is home, bitches!

>>53484930
Right now it's really just people not teching for the list. People seem to think magical weapons are the answer and that's just not true.

>>53484424
Caine3 is fucking baller you scrub

>>53485387
less baller in mercs than in his true home, cygnar.

>>53485370
What would you recommend?

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>take goodstuff.list
>opponent takes colossal, max FA of cav and stealth infantry, and 20 points of free support because loltheme
>kill everything but his caster, colossal, and mechanics
>lose because he walked colossal in a straight line towards my slow caster the whole game and I only put two models to block its path in the final turn when I should have blocked with three
I hate how bad I am at closing out in this game.

What caster is better to run full jacks out of these (running 2 conquest and a kodiak) ? Out of vlad1 , butcher 1 or kozlov ?

>>53486574
In this case, arguably Vlad1 due to Signs and Portents. Realistically that list would arguably be better with someone like Harkevich and in Jaws of the Wolf.

>>53482461
>>Skorne literally invented everything they have
>>Including their own magic

That's probably why everything they have is shit.

>>53485637
Take Rfp effects and kill the unit leaders. Baring that as many attacks as possible

>>53487989
>>53485637
Also bring something that helps against the assassination Denny brings to the table. A steady caster, spells like Castigate or models like Orin Midwinter should help.

Also, if you can't RfP the leaders, for example due to positioning, make sure to remove the rifles.

And finally, it's a huge benefit if you can bring something that threatens Denny personally. If she has to fear for her life when she feats, you can dictate the game far better. Long-range guns that ignore stealth (and preferably LoS) are best here, but those are hard to come by.

>>53488043
Orin is ineffective against Ghost Fleet. You can't protect whole units, and Denny can just spray targeting something else so the spray hits Orin and likely kills the squishy cunt, then she can go after your caster.

>>53488792
But it does mean she has to kill Orin first before going after your caster. Which in turn means she either won't get a Scource or won't get Parasite.

>>53488818
So she'll only be able to give your caster -4DEF -4ARM before she starts pumping Ghost Shots into it? :^(

>>53488872
Yes, only. Assuming she hits the CG. That's still better than your caster being DEF5 and -7 Armor.

Does Ghost Fleet have a game if your caster is immune to magic and capable of placing 12" of clouds?

>>53488973
Well immunity to magic really helps. She can still knock you down via Scourge, but at least you get to keep most of your armor. How would the clouds help though?

>>53489019
>She can still knock you down via Scourge
How is that, by running a friendly model close to the enemy caster or hope it's badly placed?

>How would the clouds help though
You only to have to worry about the Rifles and force the arc nodes to play really far forward.

>>53489071
>by running a friendly model close to the enemy caster
Precisely that.

>You only to have to worry about the Rifles and force the arc nodes to play really far forward.
Don't get me wrong, it will help for a while. The arc nodes are trow-away anyway, but at least most of the infantry can't charge/shoot you for a turn. So yes, it's a good tool, but you also need a long-term plan. And that will either involve RfP or a crazy high volume of attacks with very high flexibility.

>>53489116
I'm taking about the Jeff Everitt's Zerkova1 Pikemen list and wonder how that matchup goes.

Would like to watch that matchup on the table, but I don't think any Cryx player would ever not drop Coven into Khador, because of Rocket PTSD.

>>53487989
>>53485637

Yeah, an RFP mechanism and a good number of attacks that will kill infantry (usually possible by just having three units of infantry). Some attention given to the debuff/shot to death/spelled to death problem. Odds are you already know how to play a list that will play decently well.

>>53489071
>>53489116
>running a friendly model close to the enemy caster
>Precisely that

Keep in mind that the very specific example here, being Zerkova1, has a Spell called Watcher active pretty much the entire game, so chances are that whatever walks up to her for a cheesy trick just dies to a fully boosted Juggernaut Axe or Colossal Gun.

>>53489268
Oh that is actually very useful. Especially if you can just manage to engage the arc node.

>>53489566
After you miss your own guy with Scourge, can you boost the hit on Zerkova?

>>53490304
Scourge is an AoE. That is what makes it so good.

>>53490304
And to answer your actual question. I assume you mean that the guy you ran up was in melee with Zerkova. If you miss a model in melee with a non-spray, non-aoe ranged or magic attack, the redirected attack uses the exact same roll. So if it was boosted it is still boosted, and if it wasn't is still isn't.

>>53487989
>RFP is the key to beating Ghost Fleet
RIP Cygnar.

>>53489268
unless, say, it happens to be an incorporeal model used, like a ghost raider.

>>53490460
My heart bleeds for them. Really. It does, honest.

>>53490478
good point!

>>53455396
Run Conventions. PAX is one of the bigger series of gaming conventions nowadays.

>>53490460
Siege's explosivo rfps, if you cast that on thunderhead you have a gun that blows gigantic chunks out of the enemy army with the pulse and resulting aoes from all the pirates that die. Thats specific teching though and might be a bit cornercase.

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>>53487914

Even if it is, is what their enemies have really any better?

I notice Cygnar, the Protectorate and Ios didn't exactly have an easy time against the Skorne.

>>53492020
Against Cygnar? They didn't really ever fight Cygnar besides what happens in Witchfire. They help Vinter take the basically undefended city of Corvis and are immediately driven off by deus ex machina. Then Cygnar parks Madrak's United Kriels in the way of the Skorne to deal with the Caspia-Sul war and the War of Khadoran Aggression.

>>53486408
Wait... what?

Was that Guardians of the Temple? Can anyone else take a colossal, cav and stealth infantry at the same time?

And yeah, closing out is a skill that takes time to master. But it looks like you played well until opening up an assassination, at least.

>>53490460
It's RFP *or* as many attacks as possible.

Swans get double e-leaps on Storm Lances.

Could someone compare and contrast the three Protectorate themes for me? Is one significantly stronger or weaker than the others? Does one drastically limit the number of viable warcasters?

>>53492557
>War of Khadoran Aggression

Please tell me this is what they're actually calling it.

>>53492557

They nearly conquered Cygnar, or at least broke into Caspia-proper. Vinter's contortions (repeatedly redirecting armies to new fronts and strongpoint attacks when breakthroughs threatened) to keep it from happening got so noticeable Skorne overthrew him. There was some good Morghoul and Magnus fluff where they brainstormed what was happening during a torture session.

>>53493382
Guardians of the Temple under Feora3 vs my Rahn list.
He got me good with a single surviving Daughter running to engage two Stormfalls that couldn't touch her DEF before running her through a dozen models under Feora's feat and burning half of them to death, but I still had quite a bit left on the table.
I can't seem to wrap my head around dealing with colossals unless my opponent leaves an assassination vector open. My Sentinels usually end up getting tied up or mulched before they can set up a charge on the gargossal. I guess I should consider holding a heavy back to load with focus and engage, but that means sacrificing my front lines to their first wave if they're running cavalry.

>>53495479

They also would have dealt Ios a grave blow and possibly conquered it had events elsewhere not sabotaged their supply lines, wouldn't they?

>>53495681
Well technically, any mass amount of lives lost to Ios is a grave blow.

>>53494485
Guardians of the Temple -- Wants you to take Flameguard, and no other infantry. Flameguard aren't *bad*, but there are better options for most casters, so it doesn't really see competitive play.

Creator's Might -- The theme might as well be called "Amon", although some of the other jack casters can run it fine. Unlike *every other battlegroup-heavy theme in the game*, it doesn't allow *any* non-support units, which is a pretty serious hitch for casters other than Amon taking it. But it's pretty baller with Amon because Amon is, well, Amon.

Exemplar Interdicion - Is swapping your Idrians for Errants worth blessed weapons on all of your jacks and a couple of free solos? If you answered yes to this question, this theme is pretty solid. Plays really well into Kreoss3 or High Reclaimer's gameplan. Also because one of its benefits (blessed weapons on battlegroup) is both really strong and not reliant on taking any Examplars, Amon can run it well, too.

On the whole, my opinion of Protectorate themes is they're mostly a matter of (or at least can be oversimplified to be) stopping you from taking Idrians (since Idrians are... in top three small-based infantry in the game, and play well with most Protectorate casters), and seeing what you get for that. Guardians of the Temple has the problem that it doesn't really allow anything to fill the role. Creator's Might works because the casters (or, realistically, caster) who wants to take it wants nothing but jacks anyway. Exemplar Interdiction works because Errants, while a downgrade, are a reasonable substitution. EI also has the added benefit that while it prevents non-Malekus casters from taking the Eye of Truth (who is amazing), the theme gives out the Eye's main candy to your battlegroup for free.

So, in short, Amon loves him some Creator's Might, and a lot of casters can benefit from Exemplar Interdiction.

>>53494485
Guardians of the Temple want you to take Flameguard. You get free UAs/solos, jacks get girded and ambush on a unit of daughters. Thing is, that isn't really that good. So you don't see it.

Creator's Might is the jack list. Free solo for every 25 pts of jacks, choir gets reposition and start game with upkeeps. Any jack heavy caster will like this. Amon soars with this as it is literally everything he wanted to take anyways. Its a competitive list.

Exemplar interdiction is the newest one. Free solo/ua, jacks get blessed and deployment gets extended. Its basically best used with Kreoss3 spamming horses, High Reclaimer, Kreoss1's old pop and drop or Amon jack spam.

>>53495675
Yeah, if you've got one thing in your list that can effectively kill a colossal, an opponent running a colossal just has to kill that one thing to force you into assassinate-or-lose mode.

I'm not sure that your setup should be particularly bad into the Protectorate list, though; under Rahn's Polarity Field, Sents actually outthreat Flamebringers, and even if the 'bringers get in, a full unit only kills about 3 sents under Iron Zeal and then get murdered in retaliation. In the Disco package, they're even almost invulnerable to the Judicator's long-range guns.

>>53495711

They still have Iosan slaves somewhere don't they?

>>53496572
Yup.

>>53476884

Yes. Zaal1 only needs enough Immortals to turn Incorporeal+Last Stand into a game-winner and fuel his feat a bit, though. Zaal2 wants as much as he can get.

>>53497745

So one or two squads of Immortals in the case of either?

>>53499022

1-2, 2-3 (if any at all).

>(Xekaar 1) Beast Master Xekaar [+31]
- Archidon [10]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Chiron [19]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Tyrant Zaadesh [4]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Farrow Bone Grinders (min) [5]
Farrow Brigands (max) [15]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

I don't really see the problem with Xekaar. He doesn't need to bring Handlers, that's his strength.

And ConflictAnon, why is Naaresh not listed alphabetically?

>>53500019
Infact, Zaadesh is redundant in this. If only one beast is going in per turn, the Gladiator may as well cast Rush itself.

>>53477044
>>53477261

Immortals generate souls now. You can bloat your beast handler unit to a max and shiv one or two to get the soul economy jump-started if you don't want to get caught with empty extolers for so much as a moment.

>>53500019
>And ConflictAnon, why is Naaresh not listed alphabetically?

Um, wow, this one was weird. Basically, the attachments in caster units were getting counted as casters when each type of model was getting sorted (but not showing up on the list because they got filtered before the list is displayed), and this screwed up the sort order since they don't have "character names" (e.g., "Makeda 1" vs. "Archdomina Makeda").

Should be fixed now, thanks for the report.

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Is Hexeris a good caster to lead this list?

>>53502710
Marketh is pretty awful with Hexxy1. Honestly if you want to run the theme, Morghoul2 is your best caster. Him or Rasheth.

>>53502919

What about Zaadesh?

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>>53496183
Yeah, I'm not sure what I would to do change this list. The Stormfalls did an amazing job filling the ranged damage-shaped hole my previous Rahn lists have suffered from.

>>53507469
For starters, swap the Hydra for a Manticore, and use the extra point to swap the Stormfalls for a second unit of Battle Mages. Then swap the Phoenix for Discordia. You're a bit low on backups for killing heavies if the Sents die.

I like the Scyir better than the Artificer as a marshal, but the Artificer does do more work.

>>53507535
Without the Hydra or Stormfalls, I don't have a way to deal ranged damage beyond 12" or do much of anything to Stealth infantry at range. Is a single unit of Sentinels and two heavies really enough pure damage dealing to go around?

You're right about the Phoenix, by the time the Chimera goes down it's usually tied up in melee and can't be used as a backup arc node. If we ignore channeling, Disco's tricks are probably a lot more useful in this list.

Taking the Artificer in yesterday's match was a lucky choice, since it meant most of my army was effectively immune to blast damage. Do you like the Scyir for his smaller, sturdier base, or just for being a point cheaper?

>>53507677
Yeah, Sents and two heavies is plenty of damage to go around -- at least, if you can deliver the Sents, and Discordia really helps delivering them. She also grants immunity to blast damage, so you don't lose as much from dropping the Artificer.

I like the Scyir because he's easier to hide, is a lot tougher when he's B2B with a jack, *and* his Drive is effectively +3" range on the marshaled jack, since "don't shoot the Sentinels" is basically never a good idea.

Covering Fire on the Manticore plays well into the Protectorate matchup you're looking at, too.

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Post what you're working on
I'm a real trollbloods player now!
Now I just got to paint the rest of these monopose assholes

>>53508278
Listen dude, how many poses can you expect to take when you're carrying a huge rock on your back?

>>53500019

His problem is you're playing a garbage version of Rasheth who can't arc.

And he still needs beast handlers, that's one of the stupider comments I've heard. There are constant situations where you need more than 1 enrage per turn or need to condition backline beasts or hell just fix chip damage and heal up killed aspects.

Additionally:

> He doesn't need to bring Handlers, that's his strength.

PRODDING IS A THING. OR DO YOU LIKE COMBAT BEASTS WITH -1 FURY?

If you're going to play the trashcan known as Xekaar you need to bring Marketh, so you can either double mortality or use it and use pursuit in the same turn.

Brigands need the UA to be effective, Prey is a big fucking deal. Also a Task Master is also a should have giving them steady for their Tough.

>>53509704
Gotta try SOMETHING different senpai.

>>53509921
A different warlock forr example.

>>53509921

Nobody said don't play it, they said don't play it and claim it's not garbage.

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Almost done, /tg/ :3c

>>53511187
That model is an utter cunt to assemble. Fuck PP's idea on splitting arm poses, metal cyclops PTSD all over again.

>>53499575

How well do Immortals and the other Ancestral units do in combat against other infantry?

>>53509704

>Brigands

Now why are those even wanted in the current Meta?

>>53459413

I thought Karchev was for supporting melee battlegroups and Harkevich was for supporting ranged battlegroups?

>>53512113
Depends. Does that other infantry have guns?

>>53512193
Broadside on Harkevich is mostly a trap; it's expensive to stack decent ranged options, and Broadside generates unboosted shots, which tend to either have trouble hitting light stuff or damaging heavy stuff. Mobility is the important spell on his list.

He *can* run a ranged battlegroup, but he does better with a melee battlegroup.

>>53512127

With Prey and a -2 ARM debuff they're actually capable of shooting heavies off the board.

>>53512127

Their shooting is good with the right casters and also pretty accurate, and it can hit hard enough to threaten alot of beasts and jacks. They can also go to effective POW16-18 on the charge with Morg2/Rasheth/Xekaar and a taskmaster.

Also they bring their own pathfinder which is nice.

>>53512477

There's a special hell for people that stack the krea buff with immortal unit buff, though. Something like 15-19, has vengeance.

>>53512904
Yes because they'd be cheating you dingus. The Immortal's +2DEF bonus is against melee attacks only.

>>53513134

Pretty sure that's folding in their concealment bonus (their command attachment also also gives out concealment).

>>53512477

Not really a thing except for Widowmakers, Death Stalkers and the like. Even then you can saturate them if you build crazy enough.

>>53513212
>Pretty sure that's folding in their concealment bonus (their command attachment also also gives out concealment).

Uh no it doesn't.

>>53513590

>Grave Mist - At any time during its activation, this model can spend one soul token to give models in its unit concealment and +2 DEF against melee attack for one round

>/wmg/, STOP SUCKING!

>>53513682
>its unit concealment and +2 DEF against melee attack
This seems a bit overly complicated
Why not just a flat +2 DEF bonus

>>53513716

What you lose against Legion you gain against spells. DEF11 is debuff bait, and they're going to want to debuff the immortals. DEF13 is in a sweet spot where they think it over a bit and ultimately decide not to boost- and then if they miss they don't have the 2-3 focus left over to try again. It works out.

>>53513716
Um, so it doesn't stack with other sources of concealment or cover?

I'm not sure it matters that much on a DEF 11 unit, but there are reasons to give anti-shooting tech as concealment as opposed to raw DEF.

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bampo

>>53471116
the battle boar is better in every single way

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Now that the latest CID cycle is over, what are your final thoughts on the state of Battle Engines and MOAR BAENZ? What are the winners and losers of this CID cycle? Do you see yourself fielding a Battle Engine or Banes army in the near future?

>>53517876
If the siege animantarax comes out the way it was looking at the end of the CID I will be incredibly happy with the ol danger turtle

>>53517876
Most of them seem playable but not overpowered. The Siege Animantarax and TEP seem to be at the top of the power curve (this isn't new for the TEP), but the rest look to be situated somewhere between "playable" and "good".

Moar Banez: CID edition looks great, since this will probably mean we'll see some Infantrymachine again (albeit not going back to Nothing-but-infantrymachine), which is nice.

Somehow, Cygnar still manages to be a winner, even though it's BE isn't one of the best, because more infantry on the field means more fodder for E-leaps.

I don't run Cryx, but I'll definitely actually field the Storm Strider and AFG in those armies now, when I wouldn't really consider it before.

>>53517876

The super sonic turtle that goes into whirlwhind frenzies bladestorming in circles with its hammer tail doesn't make any sense thematically.... but it's pretty good.

Just a shame that PP straight up told us to fuck off everytime we said it should be a powerful gun platform or some kind of backline support. So now we've got super sonic turtle instead.

>>53517876
Shame about Tartarus getting nothing but a price cut and nerfed Curse, otherwise Banes are back in town.

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>>53519054

>whirlwhind frenzies bladestorming in circles with its hammer tail doesn't make any sense thematically

How so?

Isn't it supposed to be a siege engine that crashes into fortifications and enemy units and tramples, stomps, and batters them aside when properly worked up?

>>53519554
How so?

Because of the people on top. It's gonna either throw them off as a result or cause them to vomit.

It's so strange that they make the battle engine separate from a beast, but then just focus on the beast aspect of it anyway.

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>>53519849

>Because of the people on top. It's gonna either throw them off as a result or cause them to vomit.

You mean the same people likely trained for such maneuvers?

I assume any Praetorian and or Venator worth his sand and salt isn't going to simply fall off most of the time given they're riding a beast whose express purpose is to crash through fortifications and slam into the enemy in a berserk charge.

It's not asking too much for them not to fall off given that task isn't near about as perilous as those fulfilled by other Skorne troops.

>>53519554
It would make sense in the terms of it being a slow and ponderous engine of destruction that gradually worked its way up a fortification and then brought it down with a single, massive, strike from its tail.

Not something that moves at the pace of the as some of the fastest cavalry in the game and then spins rapidly in a circle striking everywhere with its tail.

>>53520230

I thought the lore implied it could be made to move much quicker if annoyed by something threatening it?

I mean, doesn't it have to get hit by an enemy unit before it gains access to the speed buff?

And it's tail is certainly long enough for it to accomplish the task of spinning around and striking something.

>>53517876
The Gun Carriage is ass. I never wanted one before CID and I don't want one now.

>>53520667
Its tail is far too stumpy to hit anything standing right in front of it unless it shifts itself 180 degrees, which means alot of spinning and Venators hanging on for dear life as centrifugal force threatens to eject them from the howdah.

And no its fluff never implied it gets faster, when this thing was released originally the cantakerous tokens improved STR not SPD.

>>53520953

Which then turned into angry bullets which also didn't make alot of sense but PP went down that path too.

They really aren't sure what they're fucking doing with it at all.

>>53520977
They're trying to make a heavy warbeast on a 120mm base that isn't just better than a heavy warbeast.

>>53520953

>which means alot of spinning and Venators hanging on for dear life as centrifugal force threatens to eject them from the howdah.

I don't thinking hanging on constitutes any great task for any Venator or Praetorian. They're trained to ride and steer the thing after all.

Where is the art of Beyblade Siege Animantarax

>>53521192

Look, anon, educate yourself and read about centrifugal force. If the turtle starts rapidly spinning around in circles the people riding it will get hurled off. That's how physics work.

>>53521368

Do we even know it's spinning that fast?

I assumed when it turned, it was just adding a bit of force to that already generated when it swung it's tail, which seems to be quite powerful.

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>>53520230

They may have enhanced it to perform as it does.

Issue 43 of No Quarter indicates that enhancements are done to an Animantarax before it's ready for battle.

They also imply that whatever they do to the thing may tax it as 1 in 20 are lost during the training process.

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>>53520230
>>53522407

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>>53520230
>>53522407
>>53522455

>>53520933

So it's not a good platform if you want more guns on the table?

>>53465160
She had that idiot Emanuel on her show after LnL last year and he cheated/got the rules wrong/cheated on camera. He quit WMH to play pokemon go full time.

>>53524339
It's a great melee model, if you like trying to navigate a gigantic base with 0,5 melee range across the table.

>>53524552

Can it bulldoze and clear charge ranges?

I'm not really sure about it's stats as of the CID.

>>53524696
It doesn't have to move 3" to get impact attacks, can make unlimited impact attacks (trigger every time it contacts a model for the first time), and gets boosted impact attack rolls.

https://youtu.be/z1lTTRGvwRA

PP made a thing. It's neat.

>>53525874
Would've been neater if it wasn't about the least interesting character in the entire Iron Kingdoms.

>>53526219
But everyone cares about Haley right

>>53525874
>one Slayer armlocking the Ironclad
Wait this isn't possible anymore
FALSE ADVERTISING

>>53526219
Her Fucking Robots Express more character then she does.

But that's also a compliment to the Jack Animation I suppose.

>>53525874
*cringe*

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>tfw you kill a 20 point warjack with your puny 10 point light beast
Slag troll mvp
More like Ragnor+Dire Troll mvp

>>53525874
>no Khador

disliked :^)

>>53527813
Grissel Heroic Ballad, Raged, Boundless Charged Slags surprise people. I've leveled Centurions with that guy before just walking up and punching it to death.

>>53528696
Khador is a shit faction. Nothing was lost.

>>53481618
Because being on battlefield is no excuse to not look pretty

>>53522407

The text implies that the Animanatarax is not normally capable of carrying such a load, and are normally slow as shit.

If anything that only reinforces everyone's complaint that the super sonic turtle is thematically entirely out of place.

>>53522183

The part where it charges as fast as cavalry to deliver the attack, and then starts striking rapidly multiple times.

As opposed to one big hit that needs to be reloaded over time like a macropummeler.

>>53525874

>Ironclad communicating with animal growls instead of boiler noises and steam whistles

Fucking really?

>>53529938
No one in Privateer Press has been near a boiler let alone one that is used for powering a turbine/locomotion. Don't expect them to know what a boiler sounds like.
>t. someone who's job it is to run boilers

>>53529983
To be fair this was probably outsourced with fuck all quality control or oversight from PP, much like Warmachine tactics and Mk1 War Room.

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>>53529398
Assault-chan and Strakhov-Senpai holding hands amidst the burning corpses of cygnarian dogs

>>53527419
Its OK to admit you like things on the internet. Nobody cares

>>53529938
>>53529983
I'm pretty fucking disappointed that we missed the potential for angry Thomas the Tank Engine noises.
>sssssssssssssSSSSSSsssss PWEEE-PWEEEEEP

>>53525874
>several ton warjacks sound like they're using metallic flip-flops.
>warjacks GROWLING instead of making rumbling engine and whistling steam noises as described in ALL OF THE FUCKING SOURCE MATERIAL

>>53531444
I always imagined them sounding like this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6ourX5zFKE

>>53531493
Yes, very much like that guy. Although no voice, and with a constant soft rumble and crackle of a heavy duty boiler.

>>53531659
For all that Warmachine Tactics got wrong, I did quite like the sounds the Warjacks themselves made.

HOW TO FIX SOME USELESS SHIT IN SKORNE

>Void Spirits
Change the Annihilator ability to +2 to hit and damage and living AND undead rather than a full dice against living. Or just make them MAT7 PS14 and remove the ability or something. Or let them ignore tough somehow. Right now they're either retarded or fucking useless. Without a middle ground that you can build a gameplan around, Mordikaar will remain a benched caster forever.

>Task Master
Make her 2 points.

>Aradus Sentinel
ROF2. They fixed the Cannoneer's problem of having a single small AOE by upping the AOE size. Now fix the Sentinel's same problem in a different way; more shots. Now you can bring it for its area denial against small infantry rather than bringing it because you own one

>Incindiarii
+2RNG. That way they can rely on deviation instead of coming close then dying to a single small fucking infantry charging at them

>Arcuarii
Can drag heavies if 3 or more combine their shots. They'd be like a more expensive but more threatening Legion Hellmouth, and your opponent would have to play with 3 threat ranges at the same time

>Keltarii
Switch 13/14 for 14/13 seriously what the fuck PP these guys are meant to be agile

>Slingers
PC7/11. They're shit, so make them cheap

>Vorkesh
PC5. DUDE 6 POINTS LMAO

Beyond that we just need some fucking theme lists.

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>>53531493
Really cool

>>53532817
>Warmachine tactics
2 years after its release, still unfinished slideshow "cutscenes" with gliding frozen pose characters, buggy poorly designed "lol protect this NPC against random damage rolls' missions, and STILL missing the continued mission packages about Menoth and Khador junior warcasters as well as the Haley & Deneghra short story missions.

Fucking thieving kikes.

But yeah, the warjacks sounded okay.

>>53532958
I was more annoyed by the massive, cripping FPS drops the game suffered from when more than about ten units were on-screen at once. My computer is by no means a beast, it's about four years old at this point, but it can handle most modern games just fine.

But not Warmachine: Tactics.

I'm glad I only payed £1 for it off Humble.

>>53532850
I like wishlisting so I'll propose some different changes:

>Voids
Have it flat-out RfP whatever it destroys. Add a rule that gives other undead models in 3" -2 DEF.

>Task Master
Make Posse and Croaks good.

>Sentinel
Have the Scather count as a cloud.

>Arcuarii
Remove drag. After making ranged attacks, every model that damaged an enemy model with a ranged attack can immediately charge it. Basically reverse-assault.

>Incindiarii
Yes. +2 RNG.

>Keltarii
Backstab. Do it PP.

>Slingers
Turn their 13/12 into 14/11.

Any CIDfags around with some updates for SR 2017?

Is this still the most recent build? Because I heard someone at my store say that Fuel Cache is gone now.

https://medium.com/@Kriegsspiele/steamroller-2017-beta-week-2-change-log-9a2a44f2b943

>>53533133
Week3 is the most current draft and also the last we will be getting before the final release. In that one Fuel Cache grants Pathfinder.

>>53532958
>Features PROMISED by kickstarter campaign, but never delivered, shit people PAID for:

>Single player survival mode
>Co-op mode
>Deneghra & Haley story pack
>Khador & Menoth story pack
>Character color customization options

But those thieving fuccbois certainly got every single possible DLC character out didn't they?

>>53533146
Thank you anon. Anywhere I can download that stuff without a cid account?

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>>53533513
Why yes.

>>53533897
Once again, thank you very much anon.

>>53530316

>WarmachineCommunityThePost

I swear, this game system draws the worst of the gaming community to it. I blame old school Page 5.

Absolute cancer in these threads, day in day out. Compare this to an Infinity or 40k thread, it's so different it's not even close.

Maybe it's because 40k and Infinity actually have decent, non -12 year old writing skills background.

>>53533164

Privateer is not known for their business acumen. They have a decent IP, made a decent system (although have struggled to fuck that up recently)...but businessmen/women they are not. More like gamers running shit out of their garage.

And every time (every time!) they've tried to outsource anything it's failed. I don't think Will S. is a very good business lead. If you look at his track record with contracts;

App builder (failure)
Game (failure)
Remolding/casting in plastic (failure)

.....well anywhere else that's a serious business, that gets you demoted at the least..probably fired as they know you can't ever move back up now.

I can buy recasts from China, right now, at 1/4 the cost with 200% quality in cast. this is not sustainable for PP, they need to get their shit together (and fire Will S.)

>>53529886

>The text implies that the Animanatarax is not normally capable of carrying such a load, and are normally slow as shit.

But that may be an Animantarax BEFORE the Skorne are done modifying it.

Remember, they experiment on their beasts so they may have enhanced them to the point where they're more powerful than those found in the wild.

>>53534660
>this game system draws the worst of the gaming community to it
Yeah, that's just /tg/ being populated with the dregs of the wargaming communities. The WMH community I have witnessed in real life, locally nationally and throughout Europe has proven again and again to be among the most welcoming and friendly communities I have ever been part of. I am sorry if your experience has been otherwise, but please don't let /wmhg/ color your opinion.

>>53534660
>Compare this to a...40k thread, it's so different it's not even close.

>Ork and Tyranid players belittled for playing "NPC races"
>oldMarine vs nuMarine skub arguments
>Endless screaming and bitching about Tau and Eldar dominance
>"GROGNARDS BTFO" shilling for 8th edition

Yeah, nah.

>>53534974

Sorry, that's not true at all. I've traveled to a great deal of cons since early MK II, both warmachine specific (Warmachine Weekend) and just general cons (Adepticon).

I've found Warmachine to have one of the most clique driven communities in most any gamin group. Hell I remember one year a bunch of guys, obviously drunk to the point of obnoxiousness, screaming while playing some dice game at Warmachine Weekend. Another group of Iron Arena players said "Wish they weren't so loud" and one of the guys overheard it, they all laughed and said who the fuck is that guy anyways.

I don't care for the community much at all to be honest, although there are some good ones. Most of the podcasts though are generally pretty autistic and shitty, as they seek to make money off the game.

Ancients, Historical gaming, Infinity, Blood Bowl...I'm pretty sure those are the most mature group to hang and play with. Warmachine has some cool guys, it has a lot of uptight assholes only worried about winning too. A lot of those.

Then again, it's what PP has fostered.

Anybody here from the Manchester area who could comment on where most games happen and how lively the local meta is?

>>53535198
>"I had an experience which means I am right"