/5eg/ Fifth Edition General:

>fighters
Everybody should be creative with their environment.

Like >>53421216 says, it should be something everyone does.

If they aren't picking up on it, use it against them a la Tucker's Kobolds.

>>53421185
>>53421216
This.

The dude who casts a fireball that burns 4 baddies is super boring compared to the guy who flips the table onto 4 baddies, knocking them prone and adding advantage to the next people to attack them, and that same guy then runs across the table, inflicting 1d4 bludgeoning damage to all the 4 guys trapped under it, to flying drop kick the 5th dude into the cauldron they were cooking the stolen village sheep in.

Would 3 PCs be good for Yawning Portal or would it be best to get a fourth player?

I play two different games with the same group of friends. Our home brew game has a bunch of flaking players but our new game is the four of us that take things a bit more seriously and would stick to a schedule.

Not sure if it would be worth it to get the next best to get a party of 4 for the campaign.

>>53421216
>>53421251
>>53421254
Understandable the main thing I notice is at the tables I've encountered is casters just relying heavily on spells and martials not bothering to do anything with what's around them.

Also since every shits on martials for not having things to do I figured they'd be the first to encourage and still let others do it.

Why do people keep making new threads when the old one is still on page 6? It's so early.

Is the fighter/ wizard the best combo?
You can cast spells and wreak havoc in melee, then action surge it up to continue to be a bastard.

>>53421331
It's the latest sensation sweeping the nation.

Also I'm an asshole and want to see how far we push this.

>>53421216
I'd love to do this if turns didn't take so fucking long in my group.

whats the best class/multiclass combo in the game?

>>53421254
When I'm dming I'm usually a massive dick and just write off any potential loot as "burned to a crisp" if they solve a problem with fireball.

Dueling being added to college of swords is cool. Martial weapons being lost, otoh, isn't and I feel like Polearms and whips would absolutely fit for the flashy showy fightery thing.

I also feel like I would actually possibly play the revised AA if it was an option rather than reject it out of hand.

>>53421331
Mainly, to deny it to other people.

Give me some cool ideas for playing out a chase for PC kobolds running from a human posse

What I got so far:
-Chase through the forest, hide behind/in the trees
-Give time prior to the chase to set up some traps
-Make kobolds frail as fuck, but as player controlled kobolds die, they take control of the surviving ones
-Bolivian army ending

Anything else to meaningfully prolong the scenario?

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I just started my first 5e game and D&D in general, I'm playing a gunslinger class right now, anyone play this yet? Super new to this and we just got done with character phase.

>>53421401
Why does it matter?

Some of my personal favorites are

Swashbuckler/Battle Master
Warlock/Sorcerer
Barbarian/Rogue
Paladin/Warlock

>>53421634
Your choice in class irks me but your sheet looks fine if you're going for a gun-toting witch hunter vibe.

>>53421637
>Why does it matter?

because i want to know?

i'm interested in what people have come up with optimized classes

>>53421628
Maybe give them positions to set up potential hit and run ambushes, possible string it out over several days. Have them be able to lure them to other monsters in the area.

>>53421331

There's been a triggered social justice fool sniping threads early to make some kind of childish statement. It was annoying to everyone with any sense.

>>53420984
Untill they go down is way too strong, at most I'd do a bonus that works like Blackrazor where it resets on a long rest.

>>53421778
You sound like the one being intensely triggered seeing how you're the first to bring up this drama.

>>53421799

I was literally answering the guy's question on the very subject, how am I the first to bring it up? Really? Come on now.

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>enter a magically sealed several thousand year old tower
>find ourselves in a room cluttered with once rich tapestries, nicknacks, and rugs. The door to the far side is blocked by piles of misc furniture and decayed garbage
>search the room, find a bookshelf with a magic scroll on it
>DM: This is a custom spell I've made myself...
>group waits with baited breath and wide eyes to find out what it is
>It moves large piles of crap out of the way of doors

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>>53421823
Gotta hand it to him, he atleast knows how to fuck with a party even if it's a dick move.

>>53421823

>Be Wizard
>DM says that we find a magic scroll
>Whip out my spell book to copy it down
>"It's a custom spell I came up with myself!"
>Put away spell book

Happened like three times now, feeling a bit jaded.

>>53421661

I'm having it nerfed to ten round bolt action rifles. I'm not going for some ridiculous OP stuff just a proto-sniper. I'm from /k/ and I autist off about this stuff.

What kind of backstory would work better for a character coming from an expedition that attempted to conquer/colonise "Siberia"?

>>53421860
Personally, I think having an entire class built around the mechanics of using a gun is a bit needless given that any other class could simply equip a gun and do basically the exact same thing, but that's really only my opinion. Conceptually, I really don't have a problem with it as long as the mechanics weren't written by some edgelord playing an OP cowboy god.

>>53421877
Depends. Who was the expedition for? If it was for a government you could be a soldier or bureaucrat; if it was for a private company you could be anything from a hired merc to a researcher to a thug trying to bribe the locals into submission, depending on how sketchy your employer is. Depending on how many people actually live in not!Siberia, you could go the missionary route and play a priest trying to convert locals.

>>53421969

What kind of role could hags and hobgoblins play?

>>53422036
As part of the expedition or as opposition to it?

>>53422036

Villians

>>53422067

Hobgoblins is easy to play them as the barbarian hosts. Hags are more wildcards.

>>53422071
Hags could be either the cunning current rulers of the land or simple residents that don't want to see their homes invaded and colonized. Either way, they'd probably be working subtly to make the expedition go south with magical trickery. You could have mysterious problems keep occurring with the colonizations efforts or have some of the explorers disappear inexplainedly. Investigation would lead into an arc that ends in the discovery of a malicious hag coven.
Hobgoblins could either be working for the hags (willingly or through trickery) or completely separate entities that are simply territorial leaders of goblin tribes. Considering that the climate is very cold, they'd probably live in caverns beneath the ground to conserve heat and limit time on the surface as much as possible. They could lead raids against the expedition or simply be guerilla fighters trying to stall their progress.

Polymorph: Does it give saving throws as well?
I think yes, but I want to see if anyone has a contrary ruling and why.
Because it seems like a really great way to make yourself vulnerable to mental spells if you turn into a beast.

I remember there was some sort of rule for various creative maneuvers in the 4e DMG that was meant as a sort of catch-all, is there anything like that in 5e?

>>53422134
I don't understand the question

Would letting Kensai use the +1d4 on melee attacks again be fair? I'm thinking of asking my DM just because I'd rather not be punching with my Whip Kensai.

>>53422226
By RAW that the character uses the saving throws of the creature they polymorph into when they make saving throws while polymorphed, I just wanted to see if there's a good reason for that not to be the case.
I just don't want a player to try and weasel out of using a Polar Bear's +1 Wisdom saving throw against a malicious Polymorph.

>>53422296
Yeah it does, Polymorph's only real drawback is you'll be weak to mental saves. Anything that does damage isn't a big deal though/

>>53422296
When you polymorph someone, they become that beast, essentially. The only thing that doesn't change is personality. But your intelligence and other mental stats do as well.

It is NOT a wildshape that wizards get to cast. I don't understand why DMs let players use it like one.

Quick guys I need help! I'm a permaDM. My resident powergamer is running a one-shot soon and has given us free reign to build the most broken shit imaginable. Help me. Help me build something horrible.

We're going to be level 8 to 12. All I've come up with so far is barbarian/rogue, or a wizard/monk (2 levels wizard for mage armour and bladesong).

In short - what's the most broken thing you can think of anons?

>>53422328
Nuclear Druid.

Hexblade 1/Oathbreaker X

Loremaster

>>53422265
Check out the latest UA, the revised Kensei is included in it

tl;dr Kensei weapons are monk weapons meaning you can use an unarmed strike

Just beware that you can't punch at 10ft

>>53422328
>twincast polymorph as a sorcerer on two party members
>turn them into giant apes because they still have an intelligence of 8

>>53422328
Nuclear Druid, go out and destroy everything.

>>53422328
My advice is just to play something fun, since starting at a higher level like that means you can use any kind of multiclassed build you've probably meme'd up in your mind without having to wait for it to come online.

>>53421637
How does Barbarian and Rogue work? Barbarian explicitly buffs strength characters while Rogue specifically buffs dexterity players.

>>53422385
Don't listen to those memes, it's one idiot constantly pushing his ebin build.

>>53422376
>>53422347
>>53422328
Nuclear druid is a combination of twilight druid and arcana cleric to cast augmented magic missiles. You don't really need much of arcana cleric, just enough to cast magic missile.

>>53422385
You can still use Sneak Attack with Strength.

You basically Dual-Wield Shortswords with advantage on all attacks and +2 damage and resistance while also getting Rogue skills, defensive abilities and sneak attack for more damage.

Or you go for a DEX build and have near 22AC, resistance to everything, half damage as a reaction and sneak attack for damage.

It's decent but not as good as people say, definitely a fairly powerful choice though.

>>53422385
No, fuck this guy >>53422399
It works really well as a grappler and requires no UA or anything, just a simple multiclass.

Keep in mind that you can still use str with something like a dagger if you want. Anyway, the idea is not to buff your dex, but you take rogue so you can gain a nifty bonus action, but more importantly for expertise in athletics.

While raging you have advantage on athletics checks. With expertise that's a fuck huge bonus. No one will be able to escape your grapple through simply trying to break free if you rage grapple.

In one turn you can do the following after you gain second attack from barb.
>bonus action rage
>shove them to the ground
>grapple them
Their speed is now zero so they can't get up.
This is when your teammates who come murderfuck them because they've got advantage so long as they're prone on the ground.

>>53422428
>bonus action rage
>shove them to the ground
>grapple them
If they don't hit you then your rage ends though and then they can just shove you back off.

>>53421263
Are you going to run a specific module or the whole book?

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>>53422428
Or just be a caster and get "Hold Person" which can lock down multiple targets if you use a higher spell slot.

And people say 5e fixes the martial/caster disparity.

>>53422448
Shove is still a contest. But if you want, you can even save the rage.
The point is, proficiency in athletics is fucking good if you're gonna abuse grappling.

Anyway, you may disagree. But I believe shove and grapple still count as attacks and Mearls even confirmed this iirc. They're special attacks and they have no attack rolls, but theyre still attacks. So rage persists.

>>53422328
If you're allowed to multiclass with UA, then Nuclear Druid is your best bet. 1st level in Arcana Cleric for Magic Missile, 2 levels in Fighter for Action Surge, and the rest into Twilight Druid. It lets you deal an exponentially scaling amount of damage once or twice a day.

If he vetoes that, then going Hexblade Warlock 3 for Cursebringer, Darkness and Devil's Sight invocation combo, and putting the rest into either Oathbreaker or Devotion for GWM+supersmite spam. As far as I can remember, the Divine Smite can stack with the Invocation smite, which leads to stupid amounts of damage. I'm not 100% sure on that though.

Fighter Sorlock is also good to make you into an EB turret.

>>53422489
Pretty sure you need to either deal or take damage for it to persist, that is until you get the endless rages features later on.

>>53422428
>In one turn you can do the following after you gain second attack from barb.
>>bonus action rage
>>shove them to the ground
>>grapple them

I thought you had to use your second attack to attack and only attack, and could only do that it is our used your first turn to take the attack action?

>>53422468
Not a bad use of spell slots. But someone is more likely to make their save against a hold person than they are against a barb with expertise in athletics.

It's really fun if you want to grapple shit. If you want to be a caster, be a caster. Still, most caster fags don't realize how fragile their existence is. Most DMs just seem to go easy on casters. It's really easy to fuck up a wizard in a single round. Especially if there are other casters to counterspell your reaction spells, if any.

I'm a caster fag myself.

>>53422516
It's just "attacked" a hostile creature, no need to even hit anything

>>53422531
>If you're able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.
Doesn't say which one

>>53422547
Yep, you're right. You have to attack a creature or take damage. That's cool.

>>53422561
Cool, I guess I always interpreted that wrong

>>53422516
No, you just need to attack.
>>53422531
>When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a special melee attack, a grapple. If you’re able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.
Same for shove.

I can see where it sounds ambiguous. But I believe it has been clarified that you can either attack twice, or shove and grapple, or shove and shove, etc.
You basically replace an attack with one of the special attacks.

>>53422536
The reason you attack martials more often is because casters make combat more interesting, and martials generally want to take the hits because it shows how cool they are for being able to tank so much damage. It's a win win for everybody.
Targeting casters is the intelligent thing an enemy might do, but generally best reserved for a really tough fight.

I know this is kind of a common trope, but would you find it annoying to play alongside the dude with edgy death powers, yet his personality is in start contrast to that?
Very bright personality and generally cheerful?

I'm not talking about playing
>lmao so randumb im supr bubbly xD
But just as a generally optimistic and happy fellow? Someone who would always point to the brighter side of things?
I really like some of the more edgy features and class options, but don't really want to play an edgelord.

>>53422638
>stark contrast
fuck

Okay, please don't kill me, but I'm a pathfinder player, and of late my group is wanting to transition to 5E, which I really fucking dislike due to lack of character options compared to PF. Just feels like I can't make anything but cookie cutter characters with the 2-3 options per class compared to the 12-40-something archetypes per class (of which there are like two dozen) that can be combined as well in Pathfinder.

We're going to be running a campaign soon, and I had a character in mind that was a plant-focused druid with a plant creature companion, ability to wild shape into plant creatures and even a feat that boosted plant-related spells, which there were a considerable amount of in PF. Looking at 5E... I'm not seeing anything even remotely comparable, and as much as I like druids, 5E seems like "Wildshape and be a damage sponge until you run out of charges then cast fireballs", and I'm not a big fan of elemental-focused druids.

Is there any way I can build a character with 5E that will make him more "nature-y" with spells that'll utilize plants to grab/strangle, attack or inflict status effects on people or something of the like without completely turning my character into a useless gimp in battle? Hell, I'd even settle for just being a utility character who does nothing but support if that's what it has to be. Anything that would allow me to use plant creature forms or summon tree people allies or anything of the sort would be greatly appreciated. I'll even take something homebrew if it's well-made so I can pitch it to the DM for approval. I just don't wanna be stuck in a rut with a character that I don't really feel in control of.

Thanks for any help.

>>53422638
That depends. Which death powers we're talking about?

>>53422648
There's no such druid, but there is Primeval Guardian Ranger.

>>53422648
Circle of the Shepard druid seems like a close fit.

>>53422648
Search up the Primeval Guardian archetype for Ranger in Unearthed Arcana.
You can be a tree-man.

Either take variant human and take magic initiate for shillelagh, or dip 1 level into nature druid and take shillelagh. Or dip 1 level into druid and take shillelagh.

Basically get that shillelagh on, my dude. Then pump wis and hit become with your staff and become the tree you were meant to be.

>>53422638
Warlock? Could be annoying but people probably won't mind because all the options except Fey are inherently edgy.

Necromancer? 99% of the time it's annoying

Oathbreaker or other edge Paladins? Can be well done but rarely.

Death Cleric? Probably won't be too bad.

Was it one of those or something else?

>>53422648
5e is more about actually roleplaying your character, rather than a set of stats. You have to get out of the Pathfinder mentality of needing feats to do everything. Pathfinders "options" are like 90% traps that punish you for picking them anyway, compared to more optimal choices. 5e simply does away with all the garbage and bloat.

Primeval Ranger Unearthed Arcana is what you're looking for, in terms of class.

>>53422648
Do you want a "million" options that are fucking terrible and useless or do you want meaningful options that actually work?

>>53422657
Not necromancy, but things that deal necrotic damage. As well as spells like bestow curse and such. Vampiric touch is also cool. I like the draining effect.

I don't so much care for things like necromancy and don't want to forge a skeleton army or anything like that.

>>53422674
Death cleric is what I was considering the most.
I don't much enjoy the mechanics of warlock and necromancer isn't really what I'm going for.

>>53422688
>>53422704
Death Cleric, probably a neutral or good Cleric of Kelemvor is best. Basically gives you all the Dark evil damage spells and class options without too much edge.

Twilight Druid also could work pretty well, they're very themed about the darker sides of a Druid's job but they do good deeds.

>>53422708
Cool, we usually play in homebrew locations but with FR lore just because we're lazy so I'll look into some stuff regarding Kelemvor.
Thanks for the suggestion.

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what would be a good backstory for a character played by a complete newb. I'm partial to hermit wood-elf because that's double the excuse to not know shit.

Also is this chart legit?

>>53422719
If you don't mistake object interaction with Use an Object, it looks quite alright.
Personally, I'd remove certain things that are DM discretion from the image.

The new UA is day 5 of next month, right?

>>53422648
You'd be blown away and in shock and awe because 5e is actually a roleplaying game with well designed mechanics rather than an autistic maths and excel spreadsheet simulator.

>>53422708
Hmm, doomguides don't seem so edgy. Might fashion something similar for a character concept. I like it.

>>53422732
like what?

>>53422765
"Determine surprise"
"PC or someone special" under death

For a players' cheat sheet, those things are not their responsibility.

>>53422747
>Well designed mechanics
I mostly agree with you, barring autistic shrieking issues with certain spells/mechanics.
And they overuse (dis)advantage like it was going out of style.
And it doesn't hold up after 11th level, but neither does any other D&D game, really.

>>53422661
>>53422671
>>53422681
Thanks! Since three people have brought it up, I'm gonna check this out, since it apparently hits the nail on the head.

And I know it's gonna be more about the character, but my group is kind of... not great at/not into actually role playing interactions and cares more about combat it seems. That's why I liked Pathfinder, because then I could at least roll up a really flavorful/weird character build and enjoy strangling people with my hair, or being able to summon like seventeen bears for every combat, where in 5E I'm just gonna be stuck with a fairly small pool of options that's even further restricted because the rest of the group kind of plays set roles and choosing the same class as one of them would basically gimp the whole party for lack of utility.

>>53422785
>Doesn't hold up after 11th level
I've been running homebrew games for a couple years now with 5e and never had trouble managing a party all the way up to level 20.

I mean, I guess if it was a player's goal to break the game they could probably find a way to. But that's not someone you really want to play with anyway. There are ways to break it long before then, or at the very least, make it not fun.

>>53422801
egh... Weird they want to jump into 5e if they want a combat simulator. Maybe they should try 4e instead.

Combat is one of the least compelling parts of 5e. Roleplaying and being able to do what you want without having to consult the rules for every little thing is its strength.

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>>53422801
Some people would call 5e's lack of "gimmick" characters like hair-witches and bears-summoning-bears druids a strength. Not everyone likes games full of totally randumb anime characters.

>>53422801
But Pathfinder has absolute shit combat mechanics. If you wanted good and tactical combat, play 4e.

>>53422801
It should be mentioned that if you have a character concept, almost everything you want to do can be done so by just refluffing but keeping the mechanics the same.

You want to have weird vine hair?
Okay, use thorn whip, but just say it uses your hair.

>>53422801
All of that can be easily refluffed, your mistake was thinking mechanics have to be rigid and unflinching.

>>53422801
At least playing 5e you won't be as much of an autist.

>>53422834
To be fair you can totally be a bear summoning bears in 5e too. Moon druids, man. What a mistake.

>>53422801
If your players want combat get them to play 4e, which also has a shitload of books and such to go through to create whatever gimmick character you want

And bear in mind, a spell doesn't explicitly have to say "you do this" for it to do the thing you might want. If you want a guy who does vine stuff with his hair, just say you do it when you cast a spell that involves vines

What are some things a wizard npc who heavily specialized in transmutation do to benefit a city he (sort of) rules over?

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>>53422661
>>53422671
>>53422681
>>53422801

Slightly related, i made a mini for the tree-man
I-i just wanted to share

>>53422911
Fucking laughed out loud.
It's really not that bad though for a mini. Just not what I was expecting.

>>53422911
Looks good, expect someone to meme about groot

>>53422907
I'd probably have the city built mostly out of sculpted earth/stone. No need to set rocks on top of one another when you can just raise a pillar of stone out of the ground.

>>53422907
Bouncing off this idea >>53422933
Why not have him have built a wall
Seriously though. It could be glorious and a major feature of the city.

>>53422911
Is he Groot?

>>53422854
Yeah, I'm pretty much the only person who thinks outside the box with creative uses of abilities at this table, so I'm willing to work with what 5E has, I just needed a good starting place really, as I'm not super familiar. Just last night I used a cone ability with a force push effect as a sort of "leaf blower" to get hazardous material out of our only escape path, and once talked the DM into letting my "science wizard" cast light in the UV spectrum to look for traces of blood. I'll be able to make something work with the right building blocks. I just didn't know what blocks I had to play with in 5E.

>>53422961
Keep thinking outside the box, you autist. Get your DM to come up with creative environments and terrain features and interactables.

>>53422385
Either it's an Unarmoured Rogue with maxed Dex/Con.

Or it's a Barbarian who took 2 levels in Rogue to grab expertise in athletics and cunning action.

What does everyone think of Curse of Strahd, any advice running it, maybe stories you've mad from running it?

>>53421823
What level spell is it? Abuse it.

>carry a door around
>throw it at enemies
>contest enemies are pieces of living crap
>move enemies

>>53423041
Haven't played it, but heard only good things. Word is you're best off having Strahd mess with the party constantly, because he's too weak to face them directly.

>>53423075
Is he really that weak? I haven't really looked at his stat block yet.

>>53423109
He isn't as weak as much as he isn't unique. They just took the vampire wizard and gave him legendary actions, most of which aren't even good.

They didn't give him a sword, they didn't give him the ability to close the borders or have the mists envelop people.

>>53423041
its great
don't give them the plate mail in Death House, say the suits' joints are welded.

>>53421857
Even if its custom, if it is a wizard spell you could still copy it down

>>53421823

Wait.
Isn't this spell ridiculously OP.

>dragon blocks door
>moves him aside

>>53423165
>>53423109
Actually I lie, the CR 13 vampire already has legendary actions. Strahd isn't unique at all, and it's pretty lazy design unfortunately.

>>53423198
Won't be a problem as I am currently running my group through The Sunless Citadel before CoS.. on that note, got any creative ways of throwing them into Ravenloft once we finish this adventure?

>>53423218
Ehhhh. Kind of pisses me off. Maybe I should change him up a bit. I'm sure someone already did something to make him more unique, just got to look around.

>>53423240
>I'm sure someone already did something to make him more unique
Quite a few people pass through this general asking what to give Strahd to beef him up.

Some people suggest not having him engage in actual fights - he's better off waging guerilla warfare against the party. It makes sense - lure them out, stage raids on them, try to charm them apart, and so on.

So what's the best touch spell to use the Death Cleric's Channel Divinity on? Vampiric Touch seems like a good option if I need to regain some HP but the only other one I can find's Cause Wounds.

>>53423270

It doesn't have to be a touch spell. It says melee attack.

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>>53423240
there were suggestions in the book

they all end up the same. Fog rolls in and then you are somewhere else.

Strahd was more character than statblock. standard gothic story tropes etc

I remember an old 2e Ravenloft Splatbook (the Forbidden Lore box set iirc) that had a spell called Strahd's Malefic Meld.

or have the party chased by Strahd on horseback some time

>>53423279
Sorry, meant Melee Spell Attacks. Basically anything cool it works with other then weapons.

Could a tiefling have a vagina dentata? How would you insinuate it?

>>53423287

You can use spiritual weapon. :^)

>>53423285
That's a good point. I'm trying to understand Strahd and the who gothic feel of Ravenloft. Recommend any good fluff books or maybe some movies etc, to help understand the gothic feeling? I'm too used to low fantasy.
I'll take a peak at the Forbidden Lore box also.

>>53423320
I,Strahd
Vampire of the Mists

Edgar Allen Poe was a great gothic writer

Dracula
Fall of the House of Usher (1960)
The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari

For someone who despises the idea of watching other people play D&D can someone tell me what the Critical Roll setting's like?

The campaign book isn't too expensive and I can't find much info about it other then "Watch the show" even though I really, really don't want to.

>>53423397
Do you recommend reading Domains of Dread, thanks for the list of resources by the way.

>>53423477
High fantasy
Magic does a lot but not computers yet.
Airships.
One guy figured out gunpowder, but that's in the show, so I'm not sure if that is in the setting itself, or is a consequence of the character.

What are some options for a strict monotheist wanting to play Cleric besides Church of the silver flame?

>>53423543
Honestly, doesn't sound like something worth spending money on because it's not exactly new stuff. Maybe I'll change my mind but more high fantasy would make me want to gag.

Guess I'll go back to working on my own setting, no good ones for 5e yet as far as I can tell.

How do I run a game set mostly in the desert? Obviously I need to make people track food and water but I feel like I should make them a little harsher but maybe more simplified.

>>53423568
I'd recommend SKT, CoS, Volo's, OotA and Tales though. Not exactly campaign settings but they contain setting information.

>>53423582
Unless your playing in a strange, lower than normal magic setting, water scarcity should be a non-problem for anyone able to afford the services of a magicy type. Create Water, Create Food and Water, hell even Goodberry, bitches got shit for days.

Hey guys my DM is having us start a level 7 and giving us one uncommon magic item and one rare, I'm playing a paladin, any recommendations on what to get? Also I'm using a maul, is it an action or bonus action to shove someone down?
Thanks in advance

>>53423704
True, the other thought though was penalties for carrying too much gear or wearing metal armour in the heat.

I was planning to have the cities be fairly well off because Clerics and Druids can solve food and water issues but once they go outside the walls I want it a bit harsher.

>>53423772
Before you plan for anything, you may want to actually discuss it with your players, having a druid/ranger/cleric in the party will turn make it a non-issue. No reason to hammer out mechanics/specifics if it won't come up.

>>53423704
>>53423772

Or you could NOT shit all over any possible survival aspect of the game by having wizards be able to bypass it with a spell.

Fuck, why even have farming or trade in a setting if wizards can just fucking magic everything needed for life out of thin air with hardly any cost or effort involved? Fuck I hate DnD settings sometimes... don't let magic just summon permanent resources out nothing, just... fucking don't.

My DM is allowing us to use the revised ranger from the UA, is dual wielding viable with them? Can one conclave make better use of it than the others?

How do you refluff Divination and other things that demand an answer from the gods in a setting where divine magic is real, but the gods are silent?

>>53423769
Ask your DM if he is using the variant combat rules from the DMG, if so then you use one of your attacks to shove.

As to your magical items
Rare - +2 Maul
Uncommon - Cloak of Elvenkind

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>>53423813
Vision quests, hallucinogenic rituals, dreams, and other vague things where someone can't be sure if their answer was actually from the gods or just something they imagined.

>>53423790
Actually it's a key part of my plans. Divine magic will be the only one able to summon stuff like that and the people have to keep sacrificing people and stuff to the gods to be getting the magic.

Basically the gods enjoy watching people fight monsters and go to war with countries owned by other gods and if they don't then they'll just take the magic off them.

Sure some people still know how to live off the land (Key organisation made up of mostly Rangers) but many cityfolk are soldiers and crafters. If the gods are pissed with them then they'll die.

I get what you mean though, I personally don't like removing options from the PHB but find survival a bit boring. If you're into it then I could understand removing it.

>>53423809
So, just glancing through features

Level 3
Positive
Hunter(Horde Breaker)
Neutral
Beast
Deep Stalker
Hunter(Giant Killer)
Negative
Hunter(Colossus Slayer)
Horizon Walker
Primeval Guardian
Monster Slayer

Level 7
Neutral
Almost Everything
Negative
Horizon Walker
Primeval Guardian

Level 11
Positive
Horizon Walker
Neutral
Deep Stalker
Primeval Guardian
Monster Slayer
Negative
Hunter

None of the level 5 or 15 features specifically interact with Dual Wielding, although you could argue that a Beast Conclave could benefit slightly more at 5, since they don't pick up Extra Attack.

>>53423769
Get +2 maul or cloak of displacement as rare
If you selected cloak of displacement get +1 maul, and if you didn't get cloak of protection

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why are bards considered good? the versatility?

why would anyone play a monk? it seems you top off at around 3 attacks whilst also needing to max out 3 scores over other classes that just need two. (con str for barb/warrior)

the wizard and the sorc are nearly identical since 95% of the spells in the book are absolutely shit

why are the classes so unbalanced?
what the hell were they thinking when they wrote this?

>>53424011
Have you tried playing the game?

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>>53424011
>since 95% of the spells in the book are absolutely shit

Thats how I know this bait, since a wizard can fucking bypass most encounters in the game by mid-level due to how good and versatile the spell list in the book is.

Any other bait you'd like to throw out while we're here?

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>>53424011
You've got the wrong game, friendo.
>>>53419460

>>53416077
The answer to that is whichever allows him to have more children.

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>>53424011

>>53423880
Awesome, thanks for the breakdown m8.

How often do you encounter dungeons compared to simple encounters? Should I have a small dungeon planned for every session?

>>53424011
>why are bards considered good? the versatility?

Bards are full casters with acess to spells from all spell list, a d8 Hp die lik Rogues and Monks, Light Armour proficiency and SKILLS out of the ass.

>why would anyone play a monk? it seems you top off at around 3 attacks whilst also needing to max out 3 scores over other classes that just need two. (con str for barb/warrior)

After the playtest monk was supposed to get Extra attack 2 and a d10 Hp die.
Someone in WotC hates the class and ensured that change wasn't made.

>the wizard and the sorc are nearly identical since 95% of the spells in the book are absolutely shit

We need more spells but Sorcerrers need an expanded spell list or number of spells know.
Maybe give them more physical features since magic is tied to their natural constitution.

>why are the classes so unbalanced?

The PHB writers playing favourites.

>what the hell were they thinking when they wrote this?

How to make quick cash with a simple handbook.

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hey y'all

Is there somewhere a list of all the third party material for 5E that actually got printed ?
(preferably by an editor and not print on demand)
It's booming now on kickstarters and elsewhere and I wonder if anyone is keeping tracks.

What are people's success rates running games that aren't on rails? I have three ideas (listed from less open ended to more):

>the party have been sent to attack a huge compound, but how they go about it is up to them
>the party are enforcers/detectives that have been sent to investigate a case within the confines of a city, but initially there are multiple clues that could send them in a variety of directions
>the party wash up on an explorable island

My concern is mostly about players lacking initiative or motivation to go out and do things for themselves, or getting stuck and giving up right away

>>53424406
also with each scenario my idea is just to fully plan out the compound/city/island and have the players discover stuff at their own leisure

>>53424406
You always need some rails, otherwise you're just dropping the players in a void. Making interesting factions with their own motivations is a form of railroading. But this is a good thing as it makes the game more enjoyable.

>>53424406
Give them a goal to work towards to, like in a sandbox, they know that a orc army is amassing and is going to try to invade country X, but they must pass a tight valley, with a old worn down fort in it. Then set the players loose in trying to build up the forts strength, recruit monstrous allies, maybe booby-trap the valley, whatever they can think of.
As long as players have a goal to work to, they can be creative.

>>53424431
yeah I mean in each case I tried to make sure there was some sort of goal
>kill the gods (don't ask)
>solve the murder
>escape the island and survive

>>53424430
And yeah, I've only DM'd a short quest in which I basically planned out a haunted castle and told them they needed to reach a specific tower to cure a curse. It's worked well so far but I'm wondering how the idea would work on a much larger scale and with more choice.

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>>53422648
Ask your DM if you can use this.

>>53424380
Here you go, it's here: the trash bin

How do you make a good backstory for your PC?

>>53424693
You should clear these conditions:

A) A motivation for adventuring, enough that they're willing to risk their life for it.
B) Perhaps some connection to a place or some people.
C) Their upbringing and how that'd made the character how they are today with their class.
D) Why they're adventuring with the party rather than some other people.

.. And that's it, really? Anything else is just extra padding.

>>53421185 >>53421216 >>53421251 >>53421254
Problem is many DMs don't make it worthwhile, so it's better to just attack for 2d10+1d4+42 at lv6 than flip a table and deal d4 damage to people under it.

>>53421337
Fighter 2/Wizard X is a nice meme, casting in heavy armor, Action Surge to nova hard with spells. Won't wreak havoc in melee though.

>>53421401
Nuclear Druid.

>>53421628
DMG has some chase hazards.

>>53424763
And then DMs give you +3 weapons so there's even less reason to do anything but generic attack.

>>53424693
Where did they come from?
What do they want?
Why do they want it?
What have they done in pursuit of it?

Once you answer those to the fullest extent, you're done.

>>53421401
Without bullshit such as netfighting or UA multiclassing:

Barbarogue, Moon Druid, Wizard, Lore Bard, Cleric, Sorlock/Fightersorlock, Paladin (Esp. Oathbreaker), Paladin multiclasses (Pallock, Paladinsorcerer, Bardadin) are all pretty effective.
It's possible to use some other gimmicks effectively too such as hunter ranger's at-will AoEs, monk's stunfest and running away after each attack, AT rogue like that monk but with more damage and less stuns, a monk-rogue that's basically in between the aforementioned rogue and monk, ranged fighter that really just outputs a load of damage at a safe distance, abjurationwizard-warlock that shields themself with armor of agathys and armor of shadows...

Pretty much every class has a place somewhere, though sorcerers/warlocks/barbarians/mayberogues in particular tend to work better for multiclasses.

Ran with the idea someone gave me yesterday and now sentient plants will be attacking my industrial desert city through its water distribution system.

PCs will run around with a bunch of NPCs killing them.

What are some fun events that can occur during this?

I already decided it's ending like this https://youtu.be/IKUB1RR6Oqc

>>53422328
Mage Armor doesn't work with monk's Unarmored Defense. You could make a good use of the Shield spell, but it's a shitty multiclass either way. Go Nuclear Druid.

>>53422688
Depends on how you fluff it desu. My goodie Wizard uses some of those spells and nobody bats an eye.

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>>53424887
Sewer zombies.

>>53422801
There's a good degree of diversity inside classes. Some more than other of course, but you could make a full Bard party and each could fit a role, not step onto each others' shoes and be a functional party.

Anyone wishing to see a monster that hasn't been released/converted in a 5e supplement to date?

Personally I'd like to see the return of the ethergaunts, the least of which were more intelligent the most ancient of dragons, pit fiends, balors and solars.
They hid lashing tentacles and mind rending madness behind inscrutable, bisecting masks.

>>53423041
I'd say fuck a bit with their expectations, have Strahd roll around in daylight for example. This might distance them from thinking it's just a Dracula ripoff.
Strahd is a cunt. He'll ambush them, attack when they want to rest, fuck up people that's trying to help, charm PCs and put them against each other and most importantly, he'll fucking fly away when the party gets ready to retaliate.

How's my character backstory for my next campaign anons?

A young Septim Tork, barely able to grow scruff on his chin, was working as a cabinboy on a small trading ship that delivered foodstuffs(mostly spices and chocolates) when the ship was struck by lightning and sent to the briny deep of the oceans below. By a stroke of luck Septim washed up on a nearly deserted island, the only inhabitant being a Gnome Monk named Gubbliff.

Gubbliff nurtured Septim back to health and explained his residence. He had once been a powerful guardian of the temple of Sune until he lost control of himself in an argument and struck the man dead. He had exiled himself to this island to repent for his transgressions and reform his composure. Seeing Septim as a chance of redemption Gubbliff began to teach him about the world and his monastic traditions.

When the day to return to the mainland came Septim was encouraged to set off on his own path instead of following in his master's footsteps. With a curious mind and heart full of passion Septim joined a small adventuring party, intent on making a name not only for himself but for his shipmates who had perished 8 years ago.

>>53424987
Take 1d4 Int, Wis and Cha damage!
That's fucking nuts.

>>53423218
I wouldn't call that lazy design.

Not every boss has to be a loaded-down snowflake stats-wise. What's important is how they deal with things and the environment and how they play.
Though they could use something to give them a few extra tricks, but I guess that's what spellcasting is for.

>>53423285
Strahd's Malefic Meld let you combine 3 creatures to shit out something freaky.
So you could get a monster with wolf head, spider legs and bat-like wings. Cool.

>>53423320
Use this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho9rZjlsyYY

>>53425037
Interesting, works, but it seems a bit odd that they'd care about 'making a name for his shipmates' as well unless he had family on board or something.

It might also be good if there was some extra motivation such as inheriting a wish from the gnome monk to go complete something such as to find some item or to find various temples or something.

Also I don't really get the gnome-monk-sune combination.

>>53423546
Make a Cleric from the Religion of Peace™ who claims that his good is the only true one, be kind and charitable to people, teach the ways of your deity and convert them. One of the main tenets should be the expansion of the religion.
Bonus points if you're actually a Warlock.

>>53425097
To be honest he's only a Gnome because I wanted to justify him speaking Gnomish.

I'll take the rest into the ol' think tank and figure something out.

>>53425118
I decided Paladin is actually what I've wanted to be all along. Topical comment though.

>>53425047
It's pretty lazy, what would be the point of differentiation?

If you magical races like elves or exotic races like tieflings, should I make her backstory more mundane to compensate for their nature?

>>53423704 >>53423772
If my players ever get to roll through a desert, this region's connection to the plane of Fire will make this kind of spell yield less and less until you create nothing but a drop of water.

>>53423813
You get answers from the alignments of the stars, the spirits of the forest, the souls of the damned.

>>53425121
I mean, it sounds like it might work better if it was a gnome monk of some sort of god of lore, mysteries or such. More focused on knowledge, discovery and wisdom than being really strong but yet also following some goddess of beauty.

It'd fit a gnome well and probably all the more reason they should feel guilty enough over losing themself in an argument to exile themself for so long, being that they of all people should be able to hold reasonable discussions.

>>53425142
More that this one vampire is actively fucking with you than just being a random encounter. You should be able to apply the same logic from previous vampires to Strahd, though you should expect him to have a thing or two up his sleeve, and I believe he does.

>>53425165
You make a really good point and I appreciate the idea. His task could be to go and search out some of the order's lost archives and the ancient secrets held within. Gives the DM some open-ended plothooks.

>>53424046
>playing for almost a year
>only found 1 (one) spell to copy
Kill me

>>53424693
Be sure to include no relatives until you know your DM isn't the kind that kill PC's wives for cheap drama.

>>53425165
Like what though, bro? He plays as if a CR 13 vampire had vampiric relations wth a spellcasting vampire, and that's it.

If you had played that mixed vampire as if it was Strahd, what would be the difference?

>>53425222
Then the mixed vampire would have a different backstory and might not care as much about the players and the campaign wouldn't happen.

Ever thought of making an encounter/oneshot where you have 3-5 players vs 3-5 npc gladiator type enemies in an arena setting?

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>>53425132
You know what you gotta do.

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>>53425257
I did a 2v2 tournament like this where the PCs could try to fix matches or actually fight each other if they wanted. All non-lethally of course.

It was really fun

>>53425236
True that, but the tactics would likely remain the same, vampires are known cunts.

How do you go about creating a character? Their personality/goals, not the stats. I'm new the PnP and having some trouble thinking of who I want to play.

>>53425307
Yeah, probably.
The villain doesn't necessarily have to be called Strahd.
Just has to be a cunt.

How much magic and supernatural elements are acceptable in a character's backstory? If you play as a tiefling, should one try to make the history as mundane as possible?

>>53425423
''Family was hunted by evil wizard for experiments'' sounds about as edgy and high magic as your backstory is capable of being without going full cringe.

Stick to that approximate level.

You can replace the evil wizard with a merchant after your property or a cult looking to sacrifice you to summon demons etc.

>>53425463

I'm not the same Anon as the one with the wizard thing.

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>>53425270
Indeed.

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>>53425423
It depends on what the tone of the game is and what the other players want.

If your DM is running a videogamey anime world where you're supposed to be the chosen ones and catgirls walk the earth, then sure, be some half-dragon, half-demon magical experiment who killed your entire clan for revenge at age 10.

If you playing a game about regular people becoming something greater... maybe stick to being to son of a farmer who has some experience with the town militia during the winter months when there's no planting to be done.

>>53425294
You just gave me a killer idea, make a tournament where the pc's have the choice to rig and tamper with how the results come out. Thanks for the help

>>53425372
Play what looks fun, dont let others tell you to play stereotyped characters. For example everyone told my friend to play a tiefling warlock with everything helping that outcome, when i said
>why not take pirate as your backround
And he loved the uniqueness of a tiefling warlock that was also a PIRATE imagine the crazyness of a situation, where you have a pirate, thats also a warlock!
Try to be creative and different with your character, but stick within the rules.

How do you wuxia swordfight in 5E? In other words, how do you pull off the crazy shit from Bo9S/Path of War for a crazy high power campaign?

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>>53425573
No problem. I'll find the list of NPC fighters in a bit. If you were wondering what my party did: Three of them got to the semifinals. Two of them got paired with each other (each competitor got a "random" pairing each round) and the third guy got paired with this nobleman who he long ago vowed to kill. During the fight he "accidentally" killed him. Throwing the match, sure. But accomplishing a long sought after goal.

>>53425710
Sounds epic, you dont have to, i like building everything from scratch

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>Be forever DM
>One of my players offers to run a campaign so I can play
>Another player's gf joined my campaign
>Had prior experience playing
>Picked Chaotic Neutral which was a red flag
>Hasn't used it as an excuse for lolrandumb or that's what my character would do!
>I'm ok with this
>For the new campaign people talking about characters
>She says I wanna make a character that kills for fun
>Everyone: no
>Ok well what about a crazy person can't really fault her for that?
>Everyone: no
>We break
>Our friend tells us her past D&D experience was murdeehobo central

Why is it that people feel the need to create a character that has no way of fitting with a normal party. I even told everyone, since after she said it, if they want, I'll run an evil campaign. They're down but she still seems set on a character that's going to cause a huge rift in the party.

>>53425730

Attention

First preview of Stream of Annihilation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtRORiTBY8Q

What is it, guys?

>>53425730
>I'll run an evil campaign. They're down but she still seems set on a character that's going to cause a huge rift in the party.

What, like a nun?

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>>53425730
Videogames that pander to the power-fantasy of being rewarded for killing anyone you feel like.

People who think "RPGs" like that are what roleplaying is about because they don't realize they're the lowest-common-denominator retards that are being pandered to, and so they don't know any better because they've never experienced actual roleplaying.

>>53425791
Should clarify after this campaign, I just want the one time I play to not be with a that guy, it's the reason I forever DM in the first place.

One too many that guys and push over DMs and finally you give up then start DMing so everyone can have fun.

>>5342203661
Flavor-wise there's a lot of overlap with the fighter, so making a Gunslinger Archetype and/or modifying some of the starting proficiencies and equipment should be more than enough.

>>53425777
My guess? Dark Sun.

>>53425801
That's what baffles me the most, she's experienced the way we play with the campaign I'm running. Yeah the party kills shit but I try to keep a balance between the three pillars of play, because everyone seems to like it better that way.

Although I do see your point of videogames encouraging that type of play.

>sit down at the table
>"Ok let's go over some backstories"
>"Ok, so my parents are dead..."
>"Ok, so when I was a child, my village was razed to the ground..."
>"Ok, so I saw my mother get raped by..."
Why does nobody ever have a normal backstory? Why is it never just "I have a happy, loving fmaily and I've got a decent career going in my village. I wanted to see te city, so I'm going there."

>>53425904
Because well-adjusted, materially-happy people are not those who tend to be given to the fancy needed for this imaginative roleplaying game. Also because of fantasy tropes.

>>53425904

Why would a character with a happy life and a happy family ever want to do something as sutupid as to go into adventure? Only spoiled brats, greedy, or desperate would do that.

>>53425904
First is the lazy kind who doesn't really want to come up with a backstory
Second is the scarred type that made a nice family once and the DM killed them for cheap drama
Third is the edgy fella who wants an appropriate background

>>53425904
If you character is happy and well-adjusted, then the impetus to adventure is entirely dependent on the DM taking something away from you, and most DMs aren't keep on having to come up with a motivation for their players.

>>53425904
So my first character, a Sorcerer, refuses to talk about their birth family under any circumstances, and has instead been raised by an adoptive mother in the way of a wizard alongside another magic-user. Who have both sorta just vanished with nothing more than some weird overly-cryptic note. So their goal is to search high and low and to FIX IT.

Is that bad?

>>53425947
Going to a famous city isn't going on adventure. It's going on a trip. Have his trip interrupted by adventure and him being dragged reluctantly along.

>>53425966
Or the DM can give something to you. For example, 3 new friends that just saved your ass from a pack of goblins.

>>53425904
I've got, in order of decreasing edginess:

>accidentally killed my mentor after she taught me all her power, after I tried to kill her and failed
>escaped from slavers
>sent away from a monastery to protect him as it was invaded
>wanders the world looking for entertainment to fill the void left by mother's (natural causes) death
>D&D TV show homage lost boy from Earth
>grew up in a cosy tavern

>>53425904

A conflict in backstory can build up to a wonderful villain in the future. It's also a good source of motivation.

>>53425904
As others suggested, the main reason is that without a tragic backstory there's very little driving force for the character to want to fucking kill themself by fighting all sorts of dangerous enemies.

Even if it's 'oh, I got dragged onto this adventure by mistake' there'll be no reason for the character to stay in the party once they get out of that.

>>53426055
Why is it always about taking away with you people? Why can't the character be motivated by the idea of gaining something without all the tragedy business? Why can't it be a country boy meeting some cityfolk and finding them fascinating and interesting and friendly and wanting to spend more time with them? Why can't it be a merchant who gets offered a share of rewards if he helps the party do things and realises that's much more lucrative than his current job? Why can't he just be a bog-standard ex-City Watchman with an unerring sense of duty that sees the opportunity for good and takes it?

>>53425904
Others have said it and while I do agree it doesn't mean adventurers will never have a family or someone to go back to. It takes a little more work and the DM working with you, so alot of players don't go that route because they feel a DM has no say in character creation.

>>53426126
What work does it take on behalf of the DM? I'm curious as to what you're referring to there.

>>53426114
You probably have a cushy life, so you can think of yourself as an example. What reason would you have, to say, fight a wolf in hand to hand combat? It just sounds ridiculous

>>53426114
>Meet some city folk
>Wow these people are so fascinating I'd love to go on a long, horrific fieldtrip in the wilds fighting for our survival every day as evil magical wolves rip at our legs and gods of death curse us with plagues of orcs and exploring dark caves full of life-threatening traps
>Gee I sure feel kind today I'd better go on a crusade for no reason other than out of good will to purge the world of all evil

Maybe if you're playing 'Baking Simulator 1548', not 'Dungeons filled with deadly traps and dragons that will rip you limb from limb'.


Even if there's money, would you really bet your life for more money when you already live a comfortable life and keep betting your life over and over for more and more money rather than leaving the party after one adventure?

>>53426154
I lived a good chunk of my life in the midst of a civil war. I'm not a good example.

As for reasons to fight a wolf in hand to hand combat?

>It's attacking me
>It's attacking someone else
>It's eating all of my food and I'm in the middle of nowhere

No idea why you chose "hand-to-hand combat" when weapons exist, but sure.

>>53426191
Hey look, you managed to fuck up on only your second line. That's pretty impressive.

You don't go on a long, horrific fieldtrip full of evil magical wolves and gods of death and all that. Because you're not fucking psychic. You don't know what will happen 6 years from now. All you know, is that your new friends are on their way to that city where there are bound to be more folk like them, so you tag along. Oopsie, adventure happens along the way. What are you gonna do? Ditch the only capable people you've met so far and try to fend for yourself in what is becoming an increasingly apparent dangerous world? Of course not.

Use your brain, you silly sausage.

>>53426147
Certain back stories will have to worked into the world a bit more, like the noble son who is out to save his house from ruin. There'll have to be a noble house to begin with and what that entails, just what the player can and can't use his name for things like that.

Others are such as you come from a very prestigious monastery or wizard's school that is known across the land, the DM now has to work that into the world or dial it back.

Things of that nature, I'll admit it isn't a huge amount of effort but it involves the DM directly in a character's creation and some players see that as taboo.

>>53426223
eat a dick shitbitch

>>53426223
>You don't go on a long, horrific fieldtrip full of evil magical wolves and gods of death and all that. Because you're not fucking psychic.
So you can't play your happy-happy character in any campaign where some guy says 'hey, can you clear this cave full of deadly monsters for me'?

You've limited yourself only to adventures that take themselves to the party that just so happens to be wearing armour all the time decked out with magical weapons, powers and the favour of gods.

Most adventures have times when you're asked 'hey, can you clear out this cave' or you make the conscious decision to enter a dungeon. At that point, your character has no real reason to tag along if they value their life, unless they're psychic and know the DM is too kind to kill you off, probably. Maybe.

>>53426264
Or, wait, I guess you can always give the character 8 wisdom. I guess that works. 'I'm entering a dungeon full of deadly monsters, there's no way this could go badly'.

>>53426236
>save his house from ruin
That's one of those "tragic" backstories I'm intentionally calling out as cookie-cutter and boring m8. The idea is that your starting point is mundane. You are ordinary on an ordinary. You become extra-ordinary during an extra-ordinary adventure.

The exact opposiute of what you've stated, is actually the truth. The non-tragic, ordinary backstory requires nothing from the DM. "My mother was raped by X'ahlk'o'r the demon witch king" requires DM input. "My village was razed to the ground by King Brendor and his men" requires DM input. "I'm a merchant going to town" does not.

>>53426264
Jesus Christ, are you literally void of imagination? In your bizarre scenarios, they always say "DO YOU WANT TO DANGER?" and you say "No." and go home immediately. You're ignoring these new-found friends, you're ignoring quests that don't appear inherently dangerous from the off-set, you're ignoring possible rewards that may tempt the character or certain things like "You'd be saving a lot of children's lives" to a dutiful man and all of that.

Christ, I get it. You want to watch your mother get raped by an evil people and so you become le psycho Warlock on a quest for vengeance and you kill anyone that glances at you funny on your way to that vengeance, but try to at least think beyond that. At least pretend you're capable of that.

>>53426309
I see your point, never did see a house going to ruin as tragic more of something that happens in D&D. As for the DM input on most back stories I hardly run into people putting names to what made them an orphan. The handful of times it has happened it was already worked into my story and someone just said "hey since they do x that happened to me."

Not a huge amount of DM input needed beyond a note.

>>53423214
Only if you're going to stretch what constitutes a "pile" so far as to say cells or molecules count. Otherwise a single creature isn't a pile unless it's something like an ooze or shambling mound.

If given spell text I'd wager it says "target an object", at any rate.

>>53426309
>Adventures that don't seem dangerous from the off-set
Sure, if you've checked that that's what you're doing beforehand. But even then, you go on one adventure and anybody wise would realize that adventuring is more dangerous than it seems. Maybe if you're crazy you'd go on a second adventure before realizing each adventure tends to include fighting 5-20 groups of enemies out to murder you.

They're new-found friends, as much as you might like them they're not awfully important, and if they're already battle-hardened from combat unlike a typical guard who just stands at a town gate then you might just accept that they walk a different path.
And if he doesn't go with the others, the others are likely to set off by themselves and save the children themselves. Good for them, they don't have anything to lose, unlike you who might not want to leave your children fatherless because their father decided to one day ride off into the sunset to a cave that totally 'has five goblins in it and therefore we're sending a whole party of super-powered adventurers to deal with it'.

In any case, you absolutely could make a character with out any tragic backstory, but it often gives them less drive and motivation to risk their lives over without a life-defining event. It could also be irritating to roleplay a character who reacts badly to others dying and shit getting harsh real fast because of their inexperience.

You can do it, but it usually just becomes 'curiosity character'.

>>53426447
I was going to address this point by point, but honestly, it's hard to. This is just one of the worst posts I've ever had the misfortune of reading. It shows an utter lack of both imagination and just common sense. You're inventing strawmen to attack. You're actively trying to create the worst possible scenarios right down to every single quest being offered with "do you want to die today?"

It's mind-numbing. I bet you really do play a Warlock.

How stupid of idea is a sniper warlock that has tge invocation to make the range of eldritch blast 300ft, and spell sniper?

>>53426558
Depends on whether or not your character is named Dora

>>53426513
I could say the same to you.

I've played or come up with plenty enough characters that don't have something awfully tragic in their backstory, but shaming people for having tragic backstories isn't good. The players are trying to give their characters motivations and a reason to fight on, and here you're saying 'Okay, why not have a character that's stupid so he just kinda follows everyone around because he wants to see what happens?'

Of course, there are some good suggestions in there where you can have the DM make sure their plot hooks are suitably tempting that even whatever character it is would embark, but don't generalize that characters with major turning events in their history are going to be worse than characters without them. I've seen far too many 'I don't actually know why I'm here?' characters.

Each can be done well and each can be done poorly.

>>53426596
You're ignoring character growth in every single post you make. Your posts are worhtless.

>>53426447
To add on to what anon here said, if you have a comfortable backstory, you need greater motivation somewhere. Revenge, greed, desperation, redemption, easy to play and relatively motivated. Honor, duty, for king and country, harder to play, but motivated. Content, hard working, loyal, family, much harder to play interestingly, and lack clear motivation.

>>53426611
Wow, you want me to do your side of the argument for you?

>>53426611
And you are ignoring the beginning of the arc. Characters need a reason to act outside themselves and grow. It doesn't have to be tragic, but thats often the easiest route to play.

>>53426625
Yeah someone already did that whole "you can't be motivated unless your family is dead" thing. It was nonsense 10 posts ago and it's nonsense now.

>>53426629
I could say the same for you. You've posted this:

>U R STUPID IF U ADVENTURE
>WHY ACCEPT DANGER QUESTS
>STUPID
>MOTIVATION

Every single post since you opened your trap. You are ignoring character growth. You are screeching that other characters can have motivation because bad things happened, but you can't. You're entirely ignoring that that bad thing could happen to your character DURING this adventure. You are ignoring that this character could LEARN that they enjoy fighting or stealing or danger DURING this adventure.

>>53426651
The beginning of your arc doesn't have to occur before the campaign begins, you stupid cunt. That's the entire point.

>>53426558
The opportunity to use the extra range will rarely come up.

>>53426665
The beginning IS THE BEGINNING. If your character has no starting point, why isn't he still a farmer? Is he a sociopath, desiring death at every turn?

Moreover, you've yet to provide any motivation whatsoever, so your dismissal is unfounded.

>>53426665
>Ignoring character growth
It was never mentioned as far as I'm aware. Don't bring it up suddenly and say 'You never mentioned this!'
It is certainly a good point for a 'okay, they go on one adventure and while it was really trying and tough and might give them nightmares they've hardened up now and are more okay with it'. It's something I'd like to see more of, but most players aren't going to be able to do it well and it requires DM input. Not that DM input isn't possible, it's just another hurdle the players have to jump and some good DMing on the DM's part to make sure to develop the characters.

But, it's kinda hard to discuss shit when half your posts have become.. You know, that.

Again, you can do this stuff well, but if you had to take an average player and see what they've chosen as a DM you'd probably be happier to see they have some clear motivation in their backstory.

So what are some minor seafaring organizations in Forgotten Realms? My Barbarian is an ex-captain, she was basically captain of an anti-pirate vessel that helped smaller ships by protecting them and hunting down pirates. Her ship was destroyed in a storm and that's how she gained her Storm Herald powers. I just need some allies that I could put down for my backstory and to be able to secure travel and such. It's difficult to find this info...

>>53426706
Are you disabled? Genuinely actually mentally disabled?

He's just going on a fucking trip. He's going to visit someone. He's heard about a great new magic show and he wants to check it out. He heard there might be an opening in the City Watch. He heard there's going to be gladiator battles.

FUCKING

ANYTHING

The motivation comes DURING the campaign. Goblins attacking an orphanage, the city watch job is taken by someone else and now he needs some gold to get home, some crazy shit happens at the magic show. Christ alive, do you need everything spelled out for you? You want a me to draw you some fucking pictures?

>>53426723
>admits that he was entirely ignoring character growth in a discussion about D&D characters
Why do you think anyone would bother listening to a word you say?

>>53426723
Oh, and, you'd probably want good players too, who when you go 'I can't take this anymore' as people are dying can have their characters back you up and encourage your character to fight on rather than just stand there like idiots who just want to hit more things.

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>>53426748
I get it now. You don't need backstory motivation. You're just so angry all you need is 'I want to hit things.'

>>53426723
>it requires DM input
No it doesn't. At all. The DM doesn't develop your character. You do. You are the one that decides how your character reacts. If you're a faggot that's just going to say "I react by leaving", then your ass is gettnig kicked from the table, but nobody is going to do that because nobody is that fucking disabled.

>>53426748
How are any of those things character motivations? You listed a series of plot hooks and events, but not, outside of going home and not adventuring, is in any way a motivation.
It sounds like you want blank character sheets that then stick with the party cause reasons.

>>53426748
100% murderhobo player.

>>53426783
>smug anime girl and a passive aggressive coment void of any actual content with an added pinch of "u mad"
Surprised it took this long, /b/.

>>53426795
Do you not know what "motivation" means? Please, do explain your definition. I'm very curious.

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Any interesting encounter rooms for a sewer dungeon? I have an idea of some kobolds breaking a closed valve and having the PCs potentially pushed back by rushing water into a slumbering Otyugh, and a coven of Hags at the end of the dungeon in a stereotypical witchy lair of baubles and trinkets they can throw around, but other then that I have nothing in mind but sewer tunnels and maintenance rooms.

>>53426747
Really be up to the DM on what they are including, talk it over with them and see if they have anything in the world already.

>>53426819
100% illiterate.

>>53426683
I'm aware; it just seemed like a silly, but fun concept. I was going to take pact of the chainer to use my familiar as a spotter too.

>>53426787
A character, rather than a stat sheet, should already have a reaction based on personality and backstory, if every reaction is on the fly, it isn't a developed character.

>>53426787
Okay
>Make character that doesn't have a lot of motivation but is sure to build it!
>DM puts forth a quest.
>You can have some money if you clear out this cave of goblins I guess
>Yeah okay we'll leave it to the mercenaries this isn't my kind of job I don't want to die over stupid shit my parents would be disappointed
or
>I'll do it but I don't actually have a reason to be on this quest it's against my character

As opposed to
>Make character that doesn't have a lot of motivation but is sure to build it!
>DM puts forth a quest.
>Apparently the goblins took away some children who'd wandered out at night last night, you have to go save them! I think there's even that brat from next door!
>Oh shit time to get rolling

>>53426822
Nigga you keep answering what, the question is WHY.

Going to a magic show thats CRAZY is a what. Going to that show in the hopes of impressing the performers and join the troupe is a why, but it isn't a why to adventure. Hunting down that troupe because they stole the last gold you own is a reason to risk potential harm, desperation, greed, and revenge.

>>53426823
Kobolds on makeshift rafts, worshipping Hekmar, the great water dragon, which is actually a plesiosaur.

>>53426843
The entire point is that you people seem to be under the impression that one cannot have a personality or a backstory unless it involves a huge tragedy befalling the character.

>ex City Watch dude trying to get a new job dutifully steps in when he hears about the poor orphanage being attacked by goblins
And just like that, you have a motivated character without a tragic backstory. This isn't fucking rocket science.

>>53426850
>>You can have some money if you clear out this cave of goblins I guess
You have a shit DM.

Also, why the fuck is that the end of the example? If you decide not to that quest, it's not like the DM is going to offer you the exact same quest from someone else.

>>53426873
>desperation, greed, and revenge.
See? You cannot help but default to edgelord. Adventure does not require any of those things.

You just wanted to see a show. How were you to know that they'd fuck it up and now there were a bunch of giant dogs and cats running around mauling men, women and children. Maybe you should do something about it. Hey, this fighting thing is kind of fun. It felt good to help people. And I got some gold and a sweet new sword for doing it?! Hmm, maybe there's something to this.

>>53426558
Go sorlock for distant spell too

>>53426921
>Also, why the fuck is that the end of the example? If you decide not to that quest, it's not like the DM is going to offer you the exact same quest from someone else.
If you decide not to go on that quest, why would the other characters have any reason to give a damn? They'd go off by themselves.

Also
>You have a shit DM
Or maybe they wanted to do a dungeon crawling campaign and instead you took a dungeon-hating character along to the dungeon crawling campaign?
The DM is shit in that case because they didn't suit the adventure to your character but also you're shit for not working with the DM to make an appropriate character.
You can't just say 'The DM has no say in this I'll make whatever character I like' because the campaign idea might be entirely different.

>>53426921
>Risking my life is fun!
Wow, such motivation.

>>53426959
>Armies used to fight on fields of battle using men, arms and wizards
>Now it is who has the most sorlocks who snipe people from miles away

Now to work this into a setting somehow.

>>53426969
Why would the man who got raped by a dragonborn care about a cave full of goblins either? Your DM is shit.

>Ah but what about THIS strawman!
Do you not get tired of this?

>>53426971
>YOUR MOTIVATION ISN'T MOTIVATING ENOUGH REEEEE
>STOP BEING HAPPY AND BE EDGY LIKE ME!
Excellent post, my friend.

>>53426921
>You cannot help but default to edgelord
>How were you to know the circus was a travelling group of psychotic murderers who enjoy seeing random innocents mauled
>Hey, fighting is fun

I don't know, this sounds more edgy than a circus swindling someone out of money and also doesn't require the DM to do an extra session to give your character a reason for being in the first place when everybody else is already set to go.

>>53426921
>>ex City Watch dude trying to get a new job dutifully steps in when he hears about the poor orphanage being attacked by goblins
>And just like that, you have a motivated character without a tragic backstory. This isn't fucking rocket science
Thats a perfectly good quest, but it still isnt a reason to adventure. That's a what, not a why.

>>53426264
Ignoring the bait the other guy is slinging, i like chars who dont have a big overarching quest to be too cocky to think it could happen to them like anyone and texting and driving

>>53426996
I find the hypocrisy of these
>Ah, but what about THIS strawman?
Strawman attempts absolutely hilarious. Projecting much?

The man who got raped by a dragonborn, exiled and thrown out with no place to live and no money and only the knowledge of how to fight has much more reason to care about a cave full of goblins giving some money than a random villager.

>>53426989
Sorlocks would be pretty rare considering they need both the innate spark for magic AND a deal with some powerful entity.

>>53427011
This probably works best on a wizard or something. Someone who's always at the back and never usually worries.
'Ha, I could just run away and fly off if you got into trouble, I'm not scared.'

On a very wise character it wouldn't be fitting and on a dumb character.. It'd just be dumb, though.

>>53427025
I was thinking of a small kingdom ruled by a cult, where magic and primitive technology are used in unison.

>>53426998
The circus was simply an example. You can have literally anything as a catalyst. You don't need an extra session at all and I suspect you knew that alraedy and decided to throw it in anyway.

>>53427000
Correct. Now if, instead of quoting random parts of my post, you actually quoted the "why" parts. Maybe then you'd finally shut your fucking mouth.
>Hey, this fighting thing is kind of fun. It felt good to help people. And I got some gold and a sweet new sword for doing it?!

>>53427020
>no u
Oh right. That sure told me.

Saying "he has more reason to care about a cave full of goblins" without presenting that reason is inane. Not to mention, outright wrong. Why does this character who doesn't care about goblins care more about goblins than this guy who doesn't care about goblins? Oh because he was raped as a child by a dragonborn. Oh right, that explains it.

>>53426959
Oh I was planning on it, phoenix sorcerer if allowed. I'll also pick up the kiss of Mephistopholes invocation if I can for going nova on a fucker hundreds of feet away.

>>53426055
>not secretly liking the thrill of near death like a skydiver/bungiejumper/etc
>not sticking around to keep your newfound friends alive on their misadventures
>not being so changed by your first adventure that you could never go back to your old life
>not getting hooked on the party lifestyle of an adventurer snd going on more to pay for the parties
>not being afraid to settle down because of enemies you might have made / might of heard of you

Shiggy diggy

>>53427011
Fumbles a bit if the dice go against you, especially early on. To me, ego via combat is something you build a character into, unless your starting higher up.

>>53427011
The entire point of not starting with an overarching quest is precisely the opposite of this smarmy post. The entire point of it is that something MIGHT happen during your own adventure. You don't know what it is, you don't know when it will happen and you don't even know who it will happen to, but you can react to it. It's the entire point of D&D.

>>53427025
>>53427050
The answer is simply breeding programs run by the kingdom, the kingdom offers praise and assistance to something powerful in exchange for sorlocks.

How do I convince my GM and the the other players to maybe try a more serious adventure? I'm really tired of all this le' wacky adventure bullcrap and its not like I can listen to a podcast because apparently the only way to play D&D is to be a uner comedy. I dont want to be edgy, but I would like some variety

>>53427085
Sorry friend, it seems your motivations revolve around gaining something rather than losing something, thereforethis isn't REAL motivations.

>>53426787
You'd be surprised.

>>53427059
>Saying "he has more reason to care about a cave full of goblins" without presenting that reason is inane. Not to mention, outright wrong
Putting words in my mouth. I never said he cared about goblins. He cares about the reward, and the reward is already implied since otherwise it's about the other case where the DM is careful to make it so the goblin case is relevant to the party (If there's a guy who was raped by dragonborn it'd be tied in somehow, or heck, they might get a place in the village if they save the children)

Their reason is so dead simple it's not worth mentioning. It just requires the simple logic of 'Oh, wait, he doesn't care about killing goblins, because fucking nobody cares about a cave of goblins in the middle of nowhere, they care about the reward (Money / saving children)'

>>53427059
>i kill for fun
It's the edgiest and least beneficial to a gaming setting motivation to have, murderhobo.

I do have to say it would be nice to have more players who aren't orphan #349.

>>53427123
>he cares about the reward
There we go. Now he's starting to understand. Come on boy, try putting 2 and 2 together. I believe in you!

>>53427127
>god thrillseekers are such fucking edgelords! how dare they enjoy adrenaline and shit fucking edgelord scum
>now time for me, the 1 eyed drow warlock who raped his own mother to death to hunt down my father and do the same to him
Oh right.


Good job ignoring the "It felt good to help people" line too. Your selective eyesight is improving (degrading?)

>>53427085
Can you please replace the other guy seeing as you can make his arguments in an agreeable fashion?

>>53427169
I don't get what you want now. For me to hit you with the cold fish and tell you that people with the more apparently 'edgy' backstories have many more reasons to want that reward?

>>53426912
That sounds hilarious, thank you

>>53427127
>Fighting=killing
>Ignores the part of helping people

Come on man if you're gonna argue with him at least try.

>>53427176
>Literally repeats most of the same points as me
>except he does it all in greentext with "shiggy diggy" at the end
Ah, I see now why his argumentation is much more nuanced than my own.

>>53427191
Oh dear. So close. Maybe next time.

>>53427169
You still don't get it. It feels good, and money by itself are absolutely worthless motivations, they don't build a character unless they become defining, at which point you get hedonism and greed, two motivations i mentioned earlier.

>>53427151
Some groups have issues with characters lacking motivation, too.

It kinda varies on where you are, but there is no 'god of all character designs'. It's a challenge of making something new, fitting it into the world and playing it out well.

>>53427207
Nigga, he fought psychotic magical clowns, of course they be dead.

>>53427225
I get that but most players I run into you can tell aren't trying. If they tried different things I'd understand but it's always the same, then again this is my personal situation.

>>53427209
>Literally repeats most of the same points as me
Didn't say they had any differing arguments, just said they were more agreeable.

>>53427217
What if you're a character who enjoys the challenge, likes helping people and donates almost all of their earnings to help others and keeping enough to live comfortably between adventures?

>>53427238
> he fought psychotic magical clowns
The example was explicitly about giant cats and dogs.

>>53427217
>you still don't get it! Your motivations aren't motivations unless I say so!
Oh right.

>>53427270
You mean he didn't call you a fucking retard yet?

>>53427092
Probably a bunch of tieflings or half-elves.

>>53427255
Meh, thats just a group thing.
My last character was a guy who got married to a traveller who turned out to be way above his station, so he adventured in pursuit of fame, fortune, land and title so he could show up in her homeland her equal.
My current one is a former slave who got rescued by a group of adventurers only to be left stranded in a major city when all he spoke was undercommon.

>>53427255
If a player isn't trying, wouldn't you expect them to lack any real backstory and motivation at all, then?

>>53427238
Oh I didn't realize we were using extreme examples to justify our points. If that's the case then he was actually fighting people who were just confused or under a spell. Not every single fight has to happen or end in a one group or the other dies.

>>53427286
I like helping people is a reason to give to charity, be a volunteer fire fighter, and help fight off raiders, but its small in scale, and neds a motivation to grow.
Money, unless its pure Scrooge McDuck tier greed, is a means, not a motivation, so whats it FOR.

What is the safest character you can play? Archery fighter? Cleric?

>>53427309
Sure, but the guy who likes to box, or gets into bar fights isn't motivated to adventure. If you just feel good killing, thats edgy as fuck.

>>53427335
Why is it, that every single time you reply to a post, you pick one very specific snippet of text and argue against that while ignoring everything else around it? You've been called out on it at least 3 or 4 times now and you're still doing it. Hell, my post didn't even say anything about charity and you've honed in on only that because someone else said it. Stop.

>>53427104
You can't really convince people to do things that they don't want to do. Finding another group of people who want to play the type of game you want to play would probably be your best bet.

>>53427360
>adrenaline junkies all started out at wingdiving
>there was absolutely no progression between walking and diving out of planes in makeshift wings no siree

>>53424046
He's not wrong about most spells being shit. If you let wizards bypass shit with spells that explicitly don't allow it you're being a bitch DM.

>>53427382
Guess what, thats callled backstory. Wheeeeeeee

>>53427391
Guess what, that doesn't need to happen before the campaign. Almost like that's what the entire discussion has been about. Wheeeeeeee

>>53427297
You can not try and still have motivation, it just leads to a very generic background that is either ignored after the first session or is followed into full edge territory.

>>53427296
>My last character was a guy who got married to a traveller who turned out to be way above his station, so he adventured in pursuit of fame, fortune, land and title so he could show up in her homeland her equal.

Hey I'm actually going to do something similar, he married a diplomat his herd Goliath was hired to escort and guide them. He's going out because other dwarves are undermining her station because they see him as a savage who has no business being involved with someone of her station. He'll make a name for himself and become a hero, to help his wife and so his kids can brag that he is a hero.

>>53427363
You literally commented on a single thing i've said thus far, everything else has been dismissal without reason or discussion.

>>53427340
Archery fighter, Cleric, a tankier wizard (Dwarf, cleric1/wizardX, abjuration, bladesinger), Moon Druid, Fighter sorlock...

Probably fighter sorlock, actually.

>>53427423
That's a hell of a "no u" you've got there. Maybe you could go ahead and try again. Maybe this time, you can actually answer what was asked of you.

>>53427411
Yes, yes it does. Or he'd be bar fighting and not a PC or classed character.

>>53427360
What about a soldier? Or a paladin? They easily can the challenge a real fight represents however that doesn't mean they enjoy it for the killing.

>>53427441
Your question of why i address specific points? Because i disagree with them and provide my reasoning in doing so.

>>53427414
Those sorts of backstories do need a bit of edge to it, with something like feeling as if they'd be better off dead than shaming their partner's name for all eternity so their partner can move on. Else, it sounds like 'father runs off to get himself killed because he wants to look like a cool father'.

>>53427255
My personal problem is that my DM's never try. We never have session 0's and no one is ever asked for backstories. Some players still make them but they're only revealed as the game is played, and it ends up being an absolutely pathetic trickle of information. Basically the only shit you learn is whatever goofy quirk you happen to have picked for your character. In one of my campaigns there's a ghostwise monk and I only know three things about him:
1) His name
2) He rarely says anything out loud, just telepathically
3) He's a bit of a kleptomaniac
And we've been playing for weeks (levels 1 thru 7).

It's so fucking frustrating.

>>53427443
>Yes it does
Except it doesn't. If he learns that he enjoys fighting before the campaign, then it's backstory. If he learns that he enjoys it during the campaign, it becomes motivation. Try to keep up.

>>53427459
No, you fucking imbecile. Why do you look at a full picture that has been painted for you, pick one aspect of it and argue as if that aspect was the whole picture?

>Hey, this fighting thing is kind of fun. It felt good to help people. And I got some gold and a sweet new sword for doing it?! Hmm, maybe there's something to this.
To which you replied:
>"fighting for fun? sounds edgy bro"

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>Horde of Orcs doing standard warcamp things, hunting, surviving, drinking, planning next attack, etc.
>Among the mass of standard fantasy Orcs is a single, bright green Ork from W40K
>No explanation how he got there, and everyone is baffled by his single mindedness and screaming for dakka and WAAHHG
>No firearms, no mech crafting, just acting like a crazy person screaming about Gork and Mork instead of Gruumsh and other Orc pantheon.
Fun idea or no?

What benefit would/should an invisible weapon have?
I'm already aware of
>losing your weapon

>>53427467
>Those sorts of backstories do need a bit of edge to it, with something like feeling as if they'd be better off dead than shaming their partner's name for all eternity so their partner can move on. Else, it sounds like 'father runs off to get himself killed because he wants to look like a cool father'.

No not really, he's not going off to die to not shame her name. He's a Goliath and their society is built around rising up to a challenge. Is it dangerous? Fuck yes but so is living for Goliaths, you either can pull your weight or you wonder off to freeze to death.

I fully admit he might not see the end of the campaign because after a certain point his goal is reached, he's the hero he needs to be to shut up the old dwarves back home.

>>53427507

They can't attempt to disarm without a check to know where your weapon is.

>>53427499
Can be, but that's if your players get the reference and don't mind a little humor here and there.

>>53427497
You haven't painted a picture, and your character lacks clear motivation.
I want money is a character trait. I like fighting is a character trait. Neither of them is a reason for them to adventure, unless those are so defining that they go beyond the norm, such as Scrooge McDuck.

And when something occurs doesnt make it motivation, thats just growth.

>>53427551
>back to "YOUR MOTIVATIONS AREN'T MOTIVATIONS UNLESS I SAY SO AND I ONLY SAY SO IF THEY'RE EDGY!"
Oh right

>>53427513
Well, it absolutely doesn't need to be full-on that way depending on things like being a goliath, but there would probably be a small element. It's still a risk unless the character's dumb, and if they actually already have children then that's pretty unsettling if they come close to death.

After all, while a goliath might be tougher than a human, a dragon's far tougher than both.

Or, I don't know. Maybe they don't have kids yet.

>>53427572
>Where's your dad?
>Oh he died saving the world from the greatest threat it has ever seen
>wow you dad's a fucking IDIOT