/swg/ - Star Wars General

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Official /swg/ Bingo V2.3 (or .4)

>>53238079
meant for here

>>53238305

Except now in the case of both sides you're not dealing with expendable droids and clones, but vaguely less expendable humans and other organics.

>>53237926
>That OP title
You fool, you've doomed us all!

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Nth for TIE castle

>>53238702
The new Disney theme park is looking pretty sick.

>>53237926
>Star Wars General
Well, if we're going out, I'm going out shilling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_HbrvF5kK4

>>53238412
Yes but it's still perfectly possible and it's not like there was an unlimited supply of clones, their ratios can't have been that bad. Alderaan is hardly a militarised society I just can't see how it's in any way a deathtrap.

And since you brought up the Nuking of Japan last thread I'd like to address that, the Alderaan Genocide is worse and I can prove it without even using numbers. The American nuke was used on the civilians of a foreign country, the Death Star was employed against Imperial citizens. The Nuking of Japan was not carried out upon centres of government allowing the nation to respond to the terms of surrender that were offered before and after the fact, Alderaan was the subject of no formal declaration and every single person on that rock died with no terms offered.

>>53238802
To add to this, the entire society, all of their culture and history, the entire ecosystem, and every natural resource were completely obliterated.

>>53238802
That is fair, but regardless of ratios, an Imperial Army or Stormtrooper was less expendable than a Clone, just as a Rebel trooper was, by the pure merit that they couldn't just be produced factory-like. Dark Troopers came into existence purely because the Empire didn't want to expend its troops so much and instead regain that manufacturing idea, just as the Rebels adopted droid units from Separatists that joined them.

Vader tells Tarkin that Alderaan's defenses were, quote, "as strong as any in the Empire", and other elements of EU fiction that don't contradict the film support the notion that at the very least Alderaan had very powerful defensive capabilities.

As for the differences of the nuking vs. blowing up, I do agree, but the situation still wasn't radically different. Alderaan had a huge Rebel-aligned population. Its own ruling families supported the Rebellion openly, and they didn't disclose this to any Imperial citizens, they didn't try to warn them away or get them to leave. Rather, they got treated rather poorly.

While it's still a travesty that many Imperials died with the Rebels there, there were enough Rebel combatants and more than enough Rebel supporters to justify it as a viable target.

As for terms, Leia was offered multiple times the chance to spare it, even if Tarkin seemed to lie in the end, so I don't believe it's unfair to say that they did at least try to negotiate. On behalf of Alderaan, Leia did indeed refuse.

I'm not one of the people saying Alderaan was justified or that it wasn't evil to destroy it rather than occupy it, but I do think there was a lot more going on behind the scenes that led to a decision that was perhaps evil in the end, but pragmatically so.

The Empire believed the cost of Alderaan would spare the costs of a full-fledged civil war.

>>53238908
Tarkin indicates that Alderaan would have been destroyed regardless of whether she told the truth. This is indicated by him dismissing Dantooine as a proper message, and further by them actually investigating Dantooine. Tarkin may have offered to spare Alderaan, but it was absolutely a feint. Nothing Leia said would have saved it.

>>53238802

Alderaan was literally a genocide - if it had been a single world of the Hapan Cluster or something it'd be more like the Hiroshima argument claims it is, since that'd be one part of a much wider culture/nation, which as you say could've responded and surrendered.

Alderaan literally was the slaughter of an entire people bar maybe a few thousand across the galaxy.

>>53239110
Alderaan was part of the Rebellion, even if they didn't declare it.

Even if you don't buy that they were still part of the Empire, though a traitor state.

Either way they weren't an independent nation or planet separate from everyone else.

>>53239146

Doesn't matter - it's still fully under the definition of 'genocide', regardless of how legal or justified you think it is. Iirc Alderaan doesn't have colony worlds.

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In case anyone missed it last thread: Chapter 1 of the smutty squadronfic I'm writing is up on pastebin:
https://pastebin.com/zVMm6ERp

>>53239146
In today's news, Anon thinks you kill every single person in an opposing nation. Not even a regime change, just genocide (we're going to keep using that word) them all.

>>53239271
Is it Alderaan's fault for joining the Rebellion or the Empire's fault for blowing them up for it?

>>53239303
The entire planet didn't join.
The entire planet was genocided.

Which of these is at fault.
Protip it's the genocide

>>53238908
It is radically different, it's the space between nuking Hiroshima and having a weapon that will put the island of Japan underwater.

>>53239303
The Empire's, considering how many loyal Alderaanians defected from Imperial service after hearing about Tarkin's demonstrative "mining accident".

>>53239386
on a galactic scale Alderaan was closer to a major city or metropolis rather than an entire country

>>53239303
You don't get to excuse senseless collateral damage just because it's convenient.

>>53238908
>Vader tells Tarkin that Alderaan's defenses were, quote, "as strong as any in the Empire", and other elements of EU fiction that don't contradict the film support the notion that at the very least Alderaan had very powerful defensive capabilities.
Source this or fuck off

>>53239428
Which would hold up if the whole galaxy was one monolithic nation and culture - it wasn't.

That's like sYing it's okay to nuke France because it's only one part of Europe.

>>53239465
Not him, but it's from the novelization of ANH
"The defense systems on Alderaan, despite the Senator's protestations to the contrary, were as strong as any in the Empire. I should conclude that our demonstration was as impressive as it was thorough."

>>53238908
>Vader tells Tarkin that Alderaan's defenses were, quote, "as strong as any in the Empire", and other elements of EU fiction that don't contradict the film support the notion that at the very least Alderaan had very powerful defensive capabilities.
The hell you talking about. When did Vader say that? The EU literally says the exact opposite. That the only military units on Alderaan were imperial soldiers.

That is literately the entire point of the ship "the Last Chance " that Alderaan disarmed after the Clone Wars and put their military equipment on said ship.

Blowing up Alderaan is like if US had nukes in the civil war, and do convince the confederacy to surrender in year 1 he nuked St. Louis

For those non Americans. That is a city in Missouri, a slave state that stayed with the union. Many of its people supported and fought for the south including government officials but it never officially joined up and many fought for tg union

>>53239546
I posted this above. Thank you >>53239545
For sourcing that. I literally never heard that before

>>53239465
Alderaan did have a very strong planetary shield, a defense, that's not in dispute.
They didn't have any WEAPONS, though

>>53239441
Are you denying Alderaan joined sides with the Rebellion and was a traitor to the Empire?

Surprisingly enough, when you betray a government you're part of and start killing its soldiers you aren't given warm milk and cookies for it.

>>53239699
>murdering civilians because their neighbours might be rebels is okay
I bet you're American

Considering playing as a bounty hunter in EoTE, anyone got any good media I should watch/read to get a grasp for RP purposes?

>>53239937
The SW Bounty Hunter game from a few years back ps2 era was pretty good.

Past that, any western is a good start.
Django Unchained is about bounty hunters, I've been wanting to make a bounty hunter based on it for a while

>>53239545
Is this the same novelization that claims Palpatine is a dotard figurehead?

>>53239977
Never played that one.
I was thinking Django honestly but I switched up to a gadgeteer last second. Noticed that bounty hunters don't have much humor unfortunately.

>>53239937
Justified is good for a Western-y themed BH.

>>53239699
Alderaan's population was around 2 billion people. Just for the sake of argument, let's say half of those could fairly be described as "rebels." There is no way the true number is anywhere near that high, but it makes for easy math. That means you're killing 1 billion innocent people.

Congratulations, you're worse than the Black Death, 1918 Spanish Flu, AIDS, Ebola, and Cholera, combined.

>>53240087
You can't compare real-world numbers with those of Star Wars though because the scales are so different.

2 billion in Star Wars is considered a tiny population for a major world. Hundreds of billions is considered average. More than a trillion is considered crowded, but not rare.

>>53239937
For A Few Dollars More

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>>53240126
>killing billions of innocent people to make a political statement is okay as long as it's just a fictional metaphor for killing millions of innocent people

>>53239937
Star Wars: The Old Republic.

>>53240309
THIS.
I'm playing a Bounty Hunter inspired by Qyzen Fess right now.

If Kreia was a pretty girl instead of a decrepit hag, would she have done nothing wrong?

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>>53240278
Yep

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>>53240048
So you're playing a bounty hunter Gadgeteer, but also want opportunities for humor?

Go back to Django; I'm pretty sure Dr. Schultz has all the characterization help you need.

>>53240518
Pretty much this - maybe play him as that combined with Kevin Kline in Wild Wild West.

>>53240309
Except the game is utter shit.

>>53240935
It really isn't.
It's still one of the best MMOs out there.

What would the risks have been if the Emperor decided to go full lorgar and turn the Sith ways to being a religion filled with the bad stuff from nonhuman sacrifices to creating death cult soldiers?

>>53240968
That isn't saying much, anon

>>53241048
I disagree. MMO's comprise one of the most competitive genres. If an MMO can't support itself with a high enough concurrent and paying player base, then it goes under. SWTOR has not only survived it's hardships, but thrived in making each expansion (generally) better than the last.
I'd rather play SWTOR than boring ass Battlefront.

>>53241013
>What would the risks have been if the Emperor decided to go full lorgar
Honestly, his higher-ups might've become convinced that Emperor Palpatine had gone insane and conspired to have him either committed or assassinated before his madness brought the whole Empire to ruins.

The Imperium of Man may have lost it's critical thinking skills and self-analysis to dogma and superstition, which allowed the cult of the emperor to grow; but the Galactic Empire was still fully capable of this.

>>53240968
No. No, it not.

>>53241110
>I'd rather play SWTOR than boring ass Battlefront
As would I, but that, too, isn't saying much.

>>53241110
Again, that's not saying much.

>>53239255

I liked it, I skipped over the smut part but enjoyed the other bits like Thorn Leader and the squadron flying. I know there's only so much you can do in a short format and liked what you put in to introduce the story. Good one, looking forward to more.

>>53241294
Thanks! There's a good bit of smut you'll have to skip over coming up (once I get it hosted somewhere proper, I'll tag the smutty chapters) but there's plenty of story I have planned!

>>53241334
Are we going to get a threeway soon?

>>53241427
not too spoil too much, bu next chapter is something of an orgy. Maybe not a full-blown orgy, but it is group stuff.

>>53241334

That's fair. Good to hear about the story aspect too, I'm sure it'll add emphasis to the characters and make the smut more compelling as a result. I enjoy Squadfics with OCs, and after Blade Squadron think it's cool to have something else to hang out for.

>>53241478
Orgy pls

>>53241478
If we're getting story bits in between, they definitely need some sort of squadron rivalry

>>53241751
I have a conflict worked out for Part 1 (the title will make sense, I promise) but that's a great idea for Part 2.

>>53241751
>>53241789
Make them rivals with Wholesome Squadron, it'd be hilarious

>>53237926
I've repainted every ship in my collection, aside from a few TIE fighters (Stock paint will stay, as they are scrubs) and 1 TIE Interceptor.

I want Paint Scheme advice for that Interceptor. One rule- No first Order, Kylo's leaked TIE looks too much like a TIE Interceptor.

So /tg/, what's a good idea for a paint scheme for a TIE Interceptor?

>>53241849

Dazzle that shit up.

>>53242109
What do you mean?

>>53242122
Look up "dazzle paint". Ships put ridiculous patterns on their sides because they thought it made it harder to aim torpedoes.

>>53242480
That seems like it would be impossible for me. I'm debating doing it Royal Guard or 181, but that seems inefficient since I could just buy those directly.

>>53240366
Even as a decrepit hag as you said, she didn't do nothing wrong, except being retcon'd by a bunch of texan gnomes too brainless to understand everything's great about her character, and KotOR II in general.

My nearest store championships aren't until July, but I'm already think about which list to run. Of the two I've narrowed it down to, which one looks more competitive?

1.
>Rey
>>Determination
>>Finn
>>Kanan
>>Smuggling Compartment
>>Inertial Dampeners
>>Countermeasures
>>New title

>Norra Wexley
>>PTL
>>C-3PO
>>R2-D2
>>Alliance Overhaul
>>Vectored Thrusters

2.
>Biggs Darklighter
>>R4-D6
>>Integrated Astromech

>Captain Rex
No upgrades

>Braylen Stramm
>>Tactician
>>R3-A2
>>Vectored Thrusters
>>Alliance Overhaul

>Jess Pava
>>M9-G8
>>Primed Thrusters
>>Integrated Astromech

>>53246330
1 looks solid enough. Norra runs the risk of getting nuked by ordnance, but if you can get the offense going they can do some serious damage.

2 is pretty close to Worlds top 4 list, so one can do well with it. I probably would prefer this one and the gaggle of misfit pilots working together.

>>53237926
Favorite TIE model? Probably the Avenger, and that leads us into the flying bit.

I'm playing in a currently on hiatus 1ed WEG ST RPG campaign. At first it was intended to be a pretty abstract "movers and shakers" campaign, gaming out the development of the campaign world. It started immediately post-Endor. The theme was "20s China" and the characters local big shots; governor, Admiral with the one ISD I in sector as flagship, Stomtrooper commander and ISD commander.

Campaign started with the PCs getting the news - Death Star lost with all hands with the Emperor and Lord Vader on board, everything is fucked.

We eventually settled down as the "New Order Commonwealth" with the idea that the NO obviously had some good ideas but the Empire didn't give a shit about them. So the NOC is a military dictatorship with strong rule of law, speciesism is reduced, we're on year 9 or so of a 12-year plan to work up a constitution after which democratization will start.

And the NOC is pretty heavily militarized, with a disproportionately strong fleet that any real major player can still bulldoze over. It does have an unusually good fighter arm, after some years of development it got a "big, fast TIE strikefighter going", basically a TIE/Avenger without hyperdrive, called the TIE/Liberator.

After that there's been a bomber, a trainer, and a simplified interceptor with no launchers.

Anyway, at some point we started up an action campaign called "TIE Operators" about tactical operators tactically operating tactical operations TIEs in tactical operations. The theme was a bit A-team style, the character requirement was matching or exceeding both the NPC TIE pilot and the NPC stormtropper in all skills, the TIEs were fancy TIE/TOs that were pretty much full Avengers.

So I got to play a huge fuck-off space Samoan trooper with some high decorations on her record, a bunch of prosthetics post Space-Purple Heart. All was an excuse to name my character Bea Bar-Acus.

>>53247253

Oh, and I hadn't read the Expanse books at the time so Bea wasn't based off Bobbie Draper. Her homeworld was lowtech in any case, with more of a Jack Vance feel.

Not to say we've been shy at ripping stuff off. The worst ripoff was that the governor's player based "Moff" (we faked up an appointment to give him perceived seniority over neighboring governors) was based off Donald Trump. The joke was "Donald Trump as a statesman, ha ha ha"

Ha.

>>53246330
I just went 2nd Place with a Rey/Norra at my Store Championship on Saturday. Mine was way more aggressive than yours though.

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>https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/5/3/built-to-spec/
>Fully Operational expands the crafting opportunities available to players and gamemasters by introducing a robust and flexible vehicle and ship construction system.

Time for those side missions to get extra juicy

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>>53248770
>vehicle and ship construction
Ohboyohboyohboy.holo

>>53248259
Norra, Shara, Jess is doing good rn too.
I'm recording a podcast on Store Championship lists today. Mind sharing yours?

>>53248770
ohhhhhhhh baby

>>53248770
I'm holding off my interest till I see the actual rules

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Gunna build the bestest Pinook ever

>>53248897
I'm not the only who doesn't jack off to FFG's mediocre crafting rules?

>>53248831
No prob.

Fat Bottomed Girls
Rey — YT-1300 45
Expertise 4
Finn 5
Kanan Jarrus 3
Engine Upgrade 4
Millennium Falcon (TFA) 1
Ship Total: 62

Norra Wexley — ARC-170 29
Push the Limit 3
"Chopper" 0
R2-D2 4
Vectored Thrusters 2
Alliance Overhaul 0
Ship Total: 38

I'll see if I can recall the list of the guy who won first. It was Triple Defenders, and he had x7 on two of them and /D on the third.

>>53244747
You can't retcon things that were never canon to begin with

>>53249617
People have completely forgotten that Legends had several layers of canon, and that all Old Republic stuff wasn't on the same level of canon as the majority of the EU.

>>53248897
>>53249005

given how many of the already statted weapons are impossible to reproduce under the rules, I'm not super happy with them. Current game I'm in, GM says the advantage and disadvantage don't cancel out. That's allowed for guns with pros and cons, and lets you do more with the advantage in exchange for drawbacks (y'know, like actual development)

>>53249676
I think that people forget that stuff used to overlap the events of other things in general and that the layers of canonization were established to say which was part of the story and what was "merely plausible".

Current Star Wars fandom seems to have such a strong divide between folks willing to accept the post-disney stuff and the others, its not the first time that this has shown up but its funny how it always seems to happen.

Man, the ISB order of Battle mentions Repulsorlift/Heavy repulsorlift squads, but has no art for what a transport repulorlift might look like.

At all, not even a suggestions. I get that they wanted to leave it open for regional variants, but really I'd have liked some examples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9aETweCX1M
Talking about Store Champs shit.

>>53251083
Actually I beat the Triple Defenders when we had a match, but we were just under a cutoff and he ended up with better MoV by the end of the day.

>>53251394
Want me to amend that in an annotation or?

>>53251519
Nah, it's no big. Funnily enough, the 3rd place guy also beat me when we had a match.

>>53249676
The whole 'layers of canon' thing was idiotic as well, and just a bandaid at best to the rapid fustercluck that was certain chunks of the EU to begin with.

>>53252122
>just a bandaid at best to the rapid fustercluck that was certain chunks of the EU to begin with.
Just a reminder that Jedi Prince seriously thought they were writing the primary sequels to the films. And they had to be retconned into being the overall extremely minor antics of a bunch of fuckups. Outright character assassination of Zorba, Trioculus, Triclops, and Ken turned out to be the easiest way to resolve that shitshow.

>>53252778
>implying Jedi Prince isn't kino
One of my fondest SW-related memories is of me and a bunch of other seven year olds draped in various dark-shaded blankets running around a campground with tree branches, slapping the shit out of a bunch of other kids with bike helmets and water pistols, and burying them in mud "to capture Ken in carbonite".

>>53252778
>>53253714
0 days since jedi prince yadda yadda

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>>53253714
>burying them in mud "to capture Ken in carbonite".

Well that just gave me the giggles
Never buried our playmates in carbonite, but there was a phase where there seemed to be a lot of us with air rifles, bb guns and painted bits of electrical conduit finding out the hard way that its pretty hard to parry a .177 slug being shot at you.
The savage beatings with our lightsabres more than made up for it though.

>Smashed knuckles, bleeding mouths and full body bruises
I have no fucking idea how I survived as long as I did...

>>53249858
Except nowadays is the first time that people try to tell others they can't follow old canon and they can't reject or question Disney canon. No one ever went that full-retard over it before.

>>53246330
I feel like defensive Rey is kinda a waste, you really just want to do as much damage as possible as quickly as possible, no? Expertise Rey has decked me a couple times now. and I've used that Norra build its a nasty heavy hitter.

>>53249676
Uh... what? All the games, books, and comics were on the same level.

Is there any way to make a lightsaber blade WIDER?

I know longer is very easy, but like... bigger as a whole?

>>53255377
>All the games, books, and comics were on the same level.
No they weren't, there were tiers of canon with the Movies at the top and everything else is sorted below. I believe it goes Films>Novels>Comics>Games but I cannae remember of the top of my head.

>>53255474
Yes, there were tiers.

It was G>T>C>S>N

>G-tier
The movies

>T-tier
The Clone Wars (2008 series and film)

>C-tier
All the games, books, and comics, unless otherwise noted

>S-tier
The really old stuff, like the old newspaper comics and the original runs by Marvel. Wasn't considered canon unless newer materials of C-tier or higher referenced it.

>N-tier
Not canon, either due to being retconned by newer works or simply never having been made canon in the first place, like the early Tales comics, some of the racing games (ie Super Bombad Racer), the LEGO games, and the Infinities comic lines.

>>53255377
>>53255474
You had movies, which were absolute/word of god canon, then everything else which was entirely optional, and each of these things were divided into multiple players of canonicity that you could pick and choose from. The EU was basically one big buffet, a lot of the food being shitty, but some of it being tasty, and you could load up whatever you wanted.

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>>53255432
Probably, though a force user would probably need either an unusual kyber crystal, or an unusual lightsaber design. It seems like having a thing, long saber is tradition for the Jedi and the sith, even going back centuries or millenia going by one shot of a ruined statue on Jedha in R1. I think it'd be strange if kyber crystals had a hard limit of only making long, thin beams, or doom lasers. Jedi make their lightsabers in a force ritual, so I doubt they normally tinker with their saber, since it's already been magically fitted to suit them once completed.

Are you trying to make a light-shovel? I think a wider saber is in theory better for blocking attacks and deflecting blaster bolts, but with a jedi's skill and the force it probably doesn't make an appreciable difference. Jedi already move so fast that having a bigger lightsaber has no signficance in combat, or at least it didn't in EU. Jedi seem less OP in the new Canon, so I suppose you could have a lightsaber that's wider than normal to make blocking easier. Sabers have little weight, so a normal larger blades greater heft isn't a factor. If you really want to make a bigger lightsaber all you should need to do is put more power into the weapon for a bigger, longer beam. Screwing around with the emitter probably helps too. Or maybe kyber crystals really are alive, like the sith "bleeding crystal" explanation says, and they might not function if you fuck up with the lightsabers components, since you'd basically be deviating from the sabers original, force-influenced design.

My least favorite thing about EU ancient jedi were the origins of lightsabers requiring huge backpack power generators connected to the lightsaber with a hose.

>>53255844
Fair enough.

Would it be weird for my Star Wars RPG character to have a big lightsaber? or would it just not fit?

>>53255844
>not liking the external power pack sabers
>using discanon at all
it's time to stop.gif

>>53255844
>Are you trying to make a light-shovel? I think a wider saber is in theory better for blocking attacks

I mean hell, if you want to do that get one of those shields the Gungans have in TPM.
They do the exact same thing, and I've actually wanted to make a sword and board gungun jedi for a long time.

>>53255432
I suppose you could tape two or three or four or six individual sabre assemblies together inside a single large haft, but I can't actually see any particular reason why you'd want to

>>53256258
>my mom still ties my shoes

>>53256349
>I mean hell, if you want to do that get one of those shields the Gungans have in TPM.
They're even statted in Force Nexuses. They're not half bad, 1k for Deflect 2 and Defensive 2.

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>>53256349
Just get one of these.

>>53256461

Yeah, those are neat too.
But I'd want full blown sword and shield, mostly because why the fuck not. Bucklers are neat though for sure.

>>53256393
nice rebuttal faggot

>>53256393
>Implying he doesn't use velcro like a big boy

>>53256484
My inner weapon nerd is sperging, you don't strap a shield that small in a position like that.

>>53256187
Not particularly weird. There are lightsaber variants in Legends that don't follow standard film sizes. Lightclubs, dual-phase sabers, and shotos all show precedent for altered saber sizes. You could probably technobabble it away as a modified emitter.

>>53256619

Well i mean technically it's becuase it's being projected from the bracer, rather than being strapped there in particular.

What was so bad about the empire? Were they any worse than the United State's government? I don't see why it would have been so bad to live under their safety? Was it just because Palpatine was old wrinkly single man without a family?

>>53256726

Can we not start this again?

>>53256746
I haven't posted here in a long time. What do you mean?

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>>53256726

>>53256756

Every single thread lately has devolved into 'the empire were the good guys, genocide is okay if the empire does it, alderaan are the villains, living under the empire was 100% great all the time for everyone' and then the people who pile on to say 'that's stupid and youre stupid'.
It's really becoming a drag.

If you're asking in honesty though, the empire sucked for a few reasons.
1) it's a dictatorship in which you have no say in how anything goes
2) state sanctioned slavery of certain species is going to suck for them, and also sucks in general for people who think freedom is nice
3) humanocentrism is nice if youre a human, but any other race isnt going to have a great time.
4) Imperial safety isnt even all that safe when there's every chance you might be fingered as a traitor and shot by the local Governor who has no oversight just because you looked at him wrong, or your planet might get blown up becuase some other people on it were misbehaving in a way Tarkin doesnt like, etc.

Basically living under the Empire is probably okay for a large number of humans, but it's a long long way from perfect for them, and for any non-humans or for humans outside the core its pretty shit.

>>53256756
I don't believe you, you're a fucking liar.

>>53256866
>1) it's a dictatorship in which you have no say in how anything goes

Good. Democracy when unrestrained is a fucking nightmare. The Romans had the right idea, just like the dudes who founded the United States, the birthplace of modern democracy. Protip: they didn't like democracy because they knew the majority was stupid.

>2) state sanctioned slavery of certain species is going to suck for them, and also sucks in general for people who think freedom is nice

State-ordained penal labor. Slavery was illegal in the Empire except in Hutt Space for obvious reasons. If criminals wanna commit crime, then fuck 'em. Force them to do something good for the rest of us.

>3) humanocentrism is nice if youre a human, but any other race isnt going to have a great time.

Humans are the best. Tough titties for the rest.

>4) Imperial safety isnt even all that safe when there's every chance you might be fingered as a traitor and shot by the local Governor who has no oversight just because you looked at him wrong, or your planet might get blown up becuase some other people on it were misbehaving in a way Tarkin doesnt like, etc.

You're safe so long as you're not openly fighting the Empire, in which case you're a traitor and deserve the treatment of a traitor. Up until the declaration of Rebellion, everything was pretty damn nice except for the Separatists who were causing issues with their holdouts, then joined the Rebellion - oh, yeah, did I fail to mention? The Rebellion at its outset was ENTIRELY composed of genocidal madmen and terrorists from the Separatist holdouts - to cause more trouble. Then some senators got angry that they no longer had power and decided to make a self-serving oligarchic rebellion that sacrifices its men while building up a false hope and false promise of change when in reality it's Monny and the Disenfranchised Senators club wanting to put themselves in power and reform a corrupt and dead government at everyone's expense.

>>53257694
>
State-ordained penal labor. Slavery was illegal in the Empire except in Hutt Space for obvious reasons. If criminals wanna commit crime, then fuck 'em. Force them to do something good for the rest of us.

It's not "penal labor" if it's literally entire species. Which it was.

>>53257694
You know what, you're wrong on every single point but Im not going to bother engaging beyond this becuase youre just going to continue jabbering your own inane shit from your own headcanon and shit up the thread as usual.

>>53257694
>Then some senators got angry that they no longer had power and decided to make a self-serving oligarchic rebellion that sacrifices its men while building up a false hope and false promise of change when in reality it's Monny and the Disenfranchised Senators club wanting to put themselves in power and reform a corrupt and dead government at everyone's expense.

And by the way, /ourguy/ Iblis said all of this, and actually brought it straight to Mothma's face that she and the other leaders were self-serving dicks who could care less about freedom or an actual cause.

What did Mothma do, you ask?

Discuss it with him politely? Address his concerns? Tell him that she was fine with his disagreement so long as he served the Rebellion?

No. She lied to him, sent him on an intended suicide mission, then ordered Iblis to attack a much stronger Imperial outpost with little strategic value with a group of soldiers consisting solely of handpicked Iblis supporters.

Iblis saw through her ruse and told her he wouldn't send his men to die, that she was corrupt.

She then told him the Rebellion no longer needed his services, cut communications, and left him stranded there.

I'm not saying the Empire was perfect, I'm not saying they didn't do evil shit, but it blows my mind that people think the Rebellion was any better. It wasn't. At all.

An Iblis freedom movement might've worked, but if it comes down to the Empire and the Alliance, one is a bucket of piss and the other is a mountain of shit.

>>53257715
Wookiees living on Kashyyyk weren't always forced into labor. They just weren't allowed to leave the planet.

>>53257753
Ah cool, I win by default then.

>>53257694
not canon

>>53257715

Just ignore him.
It's the same fucking bullshit every single thread.

It doesnt matter how well you make a point or how many holes one of his points has. He'll just post it again tomorrow anyway with no changes.

That or he'll just cry autistically about how THE ANTIFA ARE HERE TO GET HIM or some insanity.

>>53257784
Not talking about Wookiees. Talking about Bo'dachi.

>>53257811
>implying only one person ever makes these arguments

And it's funny that every time arguments do happen nothing is said to oppose it. There are only three arguments ever used:

1. "not canon!!!"
2. "omg i can't even i just can't omg how can you support the empire like why i just omg i just literally i cannot even how could because omg how even omg what how could you like literally how even like omg like how just ignore him his points suck he'll go away --- um you want me to make points against him? like how he supports the empire so like how can you like omg how even like literally"
3. "fascist!!!"

When encountered with truth, first people think you're joking. Then they get angry. Then they bargain and complain ("ugh just stop shitting up these threads with your viewpoint that's different from mine please"), then they realize you're right.

>>53257803
Says who?

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>>53256726

>>53257861
>"not canon!!!"

>The current official Star Wars™ Canon™ is the best. Tough titties for the rest.

Your words!

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>>53257694
>>53257756
>>53257885

>>53257753
>>53257811
How about we take this a different direction? I say that Empirefags should give the other side a try. A fair shot, yeah?

Why exactly is thinking the Empire would be a good society to live in a wrong, shitposty, insane thing?

If you can provide a convincing argument for why, preferably without using hot-debate topics like Alderaan and fascism, then maybe, just maybe the other side will see your points and call it off.

Or, maybe you'll see their side and begin to agree with them.

Lore debates can be fun anon, just like morality debates! You just have to open your mind a little. Don't be so eager to jump the shitpost gun.

>>53257861

Except none of that is true, and when presented with facts that run contrary to your BUT TARKIN IS A HERO bullshit, you just ignore it and dont respond to it.

And thus, there is no point engaging with you, since youre not here to actually discuss your wacky opinions on canon. You're here to try and get people to fellate your political opinions.

>>53257994
Except that happens too in every thread, and it's completely ignored.

See "humans are the best, sucks to be everyone else" in response to 'being an alien under the empire sucks when theyre humanocentric at best and xenophobic at worst'.
See 'but its not slavery, its *penal labour*'.

>>53258067
Being an alien sucks, but why does that make the Empire bad?

We're all humans, aren't we? We can agree humans are the best, yeah? Because we are them?

Why is the Empire not putting aliens as high as humans a bad thing?

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>>53256726
>What was so bad about the empire?
The Empire molests little boys.

>>53258091
I seriously doubt that you're a human!

>>53258091
>We can agree humans are the best, yeah? Because we are them?

>I am/believe this, so it must be the best
This is the distillation of the entire MUH EMPIRE argument you present in every thread.
Nice to see you wrap it up so nicely.

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>>53258067
I've Empirefagged some posts, I'll admit.

I'm sorry if it's disruptive, though I assure you it's not just one guy.

Honestly, I do believe the Empire's better, but I don't think me or any other raging Empirefag can convince anyone of that, and we don't need to. Opinions can be disagreed on. People don't have to always see eye to eye, and that's fine.

I'm going to drop out of these arguments if/when they occur and I hope they don't, because they really are pointless. Nobody's gonna change their mind either way no matter what's said or done.

I think my mind has changed on one thing though: these debates really do shit up swg, because nothing's gained, just a bunch of dudes getting angry at each other until it dies down only to happen again in a cycle.

Maybe we should all just drop it and move on. There's no fight here to be won by anybody, and we all just make ourselves look like tards.

With the blessings of the divine Creator of the Star Wars universe, The One Himself, may we all move on into peaceful times and masturbating on starships rather than hating each other.

>>53257756
not canon

>>53258204
Speaking of slapping the slug, Smut Squadron Chp2 when?

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I'm reading The Glove of Darth Vader rn and have found the first use of our lord Moff Hissa's prayer

>>53258350
I didn't know Australians could read.

>>53258247
Within the next few days, hopefully.

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>>53258350

Who has the darkest greetings?

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>>53258204
I dont like Empire justification posting, but I do like the Fel Empire and Imperial Remnant if only because they're not ruled by an evil wizard trying to warp reality. It gives the Empire a fair chance to be an interesting faction that doesn't totally dominate the galaxy, avoiding the repetition of a rebellion fighting the great galactic Empire. I love Sheev though, even before he got his silly first name because of how he rused literally everyone forever

Interplanetary governments in Star Wars are mediocre anyways, unless they're restricted to a small region of space.

>>53258729
Sheev is the strongest darksider who's powerlevels we know, so it's got to be the sheevster

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What if Snoke is Griff?

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>>53258913
>Hey, Snoke.
>Yeah?
>You ever wonder why we're here?

>>53258983
>Hey Griff
>Yeah?
>You ever wonder why they keep redoing the same exact plot over and over again?

>>53258423
>>53258709
Entirely possible I took this pic and posted this unserthe influence

>>53259076
It's breakfast time you greasy drunk bastard

>>53259076

>STAR WARS LEGACY: UNSERTHE INFLUENCE
>200 years after the Battle of Yavin, War returns to the Galaxy! The UNSERTHE EMPIRE, a warlike species from the RISHI MAZE, explodes onto the scene, attacking the now squabbling and complacent TRIUMVIRATE of THE FEL EMPIRE, THE JEDI, and the GALACTIC ALLIANCE. Their impressive war machine and power demagoguery convince the minor factions of the CHISS ASCENDANCY and the HAPES CONSORTIUM to join forces, not content to continue as bit players on the galactic stage.

At a time like this, heroes are needed more than ever! But even as Jedi Master An Non and his Padawan Grayf Phag, along with Grayf's Imperial Knight father Emp Phag, join the latest round of peace talks, a mysterious influence is acting to forever change the galaxy...

>>53258789
I'll always call him his real name, Palpatine, but fuck me if I don't love him. No matter what morality debates or w/e happens I think everyone can agree he's just fucking awesome regardless.

I wanted to see him fight the Mary Sue/Chaos God from that one really terrible EU story, Aboleth or w/e her name was, because supposedly she stayed hidden so long out of fear of Palps laying a beatdown on her for trying to take over the galaxy as its god or something like that. The story's fucking trash but the point is Femme-Tzeentch was scared of Palpatine's personal power.

>>53258729
Me

>>53259799
the thing I've always loved about sheevy P is the way that he took such great pleasure in being sheevy P.
Like, no matter what was going on, he was clearly loving every motherfucking second of it

>>53258789
I can't help but call Sheev by his first name constantly, it's a fun name for the galaxy's rudest rusemaster. And on the rare occasion when a sperg gets irrationally mad at me for using it on the internet, it just makes it that much funnier

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>>53239255

>>53260031
Read Lords of the Sith. Sheev brings down two starships by 1) reflecting a blast from a laser cannon and 2) shooting it with lightning. At a later point, he corkscrews into a crowd of bugmonsters and turns into a living blender while cackling maniacally. It's Sheev at peak Sheev.

>>53255432
Only way I can think of off the top of my head would be having the focusing lens and beam emitter be widened or altered to project through a widened aperture. But yeah, for fluff reasons, I don't see how it'd be a problem, especially with all the different blade types they had running around in Legends.

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>>53255432
Pong Krell's were thicker, so there has to be some way.

What's the worst lightaaber?
Hard mode: no saber builder

>>53251083
holy fucking shit

sah bean
"say" it with me sah bean

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>>53261199

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>>53255432
Do you mean...

>>53261572
I feel like they originally wanted to cover him in lightsabers, but someone made them "tone it down a bit."

>>53261568

I think you mean Sa-bee-nay

>>53261572
It wouldn't look half as bad if it weren't for the fucking kneesabers. It'd still be over the top, but the knees man. That pushes it over.

>>53261568
What's this guy sperging about?

>>53261931
>[sey-bahyn]

>>53262104
I think you mean "say-bine". Like "spine".

I like the Empire. The Empire is the coolest.
But they're evil. They're literally the original 'Evil Empire' trope. That's their entire purpose. That's also part of why they're cool.

Unless you're roleplaying, you can't seriously be pro-empire without also being fucking retarded.

>>53261199
>>53261572
>>53261766
>>53262006
The kneesabers are IIRC the only part really explicitly brought up as a surprise weapon.

He's actually sorta entertaining.

>>53262323
What we're all wondering is: "Did he get any miliage out of the one on his head?"

>>53262379
Not that I recall.

Remember this guy is from an Allston book, it was good despite/because it was so silly.

>>53262259
You can think what you like.

I mean, "I just copy/pasted this from Dictionary.com"

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What's some good Stormtrooper stuff /swg/?
I want to read a gritty tale of a Stormtrooper squad's tour of duty on a hostile rebel planet. I want to read about Stormtrooper war heroes. I want to learn about their gear.

>>53262537
>Stormtrooper war heroes
The wear masks to hide their faces and abandon their names for numbers. I think that's all you need to know about the possibility for Stormtrooper "war heroes".
>Did you ever hear about TK-305? Helluva soldier. No defining traits whatsoever.

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>>53262593
It seems doubtful that the Empire would not propagandize up some kind of mega-badass rebel slaying guy for morale. There's a reason every military force in history had medals and award ceremonies and such.

>>53262633
The Empire propagandizes the force as a whole. The point of the corps is that they're the faceless hand of the empire. They aren't guys who need major pats on the back since they're conditioned to put the empire before even themselves or each other. The Empire's only concern in regards to morale and the Stormtrooper corps was with recruiting more troopers.

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>>53262676
That's boring and gay.
You're boring and gay.
I just wanted some cool Stormtrooper stuff to read.

>>53262633
>>53262676
Funny, how the clones had more personality, isn't it?

>>53262892
Funny how the DROIDS had more personality, isn't it?

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>>53262537
>Stormtrooper war heroes
Here's one such war hero alongside his waifu.

>>53262633
God I fucking love the T21. Just, fuckdamn the Lewis gun always looked good and the T-21 lets you imagine the entire cooling jacket/flash hider is the blaster barrel.

>>53262537
I remember a fic with pellaeon and the last few clones in the remnant 'celebrating' the 60th of the end of the war, but that's not really what you're looking for and was pretty fucking bleak anyhow

Asked this in a previous thread to no avail. Suppose the Fel Empire went to war with the First Order in a what-if RPG scenario. What are some interesting ways to differentiate their doctrine and tech, beyond the obvious stuff (newer TIEs instead of FOs, different SDs, etc.)? I'm looking particularly for differences in ground doctrine and tech.

>>53263280
Ground doctrine big difference? Imperial Knights have more discipline and higher numbers than The Kylo's Columbine Kids.

>>53239146
The empire then attempted to kill all Alderanians who were not members of the armed forces.

That goes beyond a response to a threat.

>>53263280
On the ground? I suspect the remnant would, since it spent years fighting back with tech but without numbers, they'd be obsessed with force multipliers, shit like a space XM-174 and a light repeater in every squad, space trauma plates over regular stormtrooper gear, GLD rigs on everygoddamnthing, while the first order would have a certain degree of obsession with old empire tactics, even though they don't have the brute force resources to make them work most of the time, perhaps mixed with an arsenal more specialized for massacring unarmored and poorly armed targets over everything else, specialized for hometown oppression over real war

>>53263411
GLD rig?

And yeah I think the First Order would probably use far more flamethrowers than the situation dictates, as general purpose terror-weapons rather than anti-bunker/pillbox tech.

>>53263506
Ground Laser Designator, that is.
Sonny Storm calls in air, and a few proton bombs fall of a TIE bomber or Interdictor [punisher] or for the more operator types a VT-49/IPV-4 with a cloaking device and very small antenna poking out, and detonates whatever hutts or other fools decided to fuck around

You guys think the Fel Empire might toss in Heavy weapons droids and such as extra firepower for squads/platoons?

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>>53263323
>more discipline
Makes sense.
>higher numbers
I can see there being more IKs than Kylo Ren's inner circle, though given how common Dark Jedi can get in Legends, it also seems plausible that the Knights of Ren might supplement their ranks with large numbers of expendable Dark Side cultists.

>>53263411
>>53263506
>>53263736
Good stuff, thanks. I'm wondering how the FO might attempt to make up for the tech gap. Given their fanaticism, potential obsession with relatively outdated tactics, and widespread use of shields and melee weapons, would it make sense for them to lean towards a doctrine that takes cues from the Imperial Japanese Army (or at least the common belief of the IJA being a WWI army that hadn't adapted properly to the times)? Maybe even use their shield guys to beef up the space equivalent of a banzai charge?

>>53263889
I mean how far into the Fel Empire are we talking first of all?

>>53263949
Fairly early. Circa 45-46 ABY, with the assumption that the Imperial Knights were founded in 45 around Jaina and a core group of NJO members born in Imperial space. For the sake of calculation, say maybe a dozen Knight-level NJO members plus Jaina form the Knights' command staff. I'm not sure what a reasonable number is for the first generation of recruits, though. Assume they draw from fighting-age adult volunteers only.

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>>53263878
I mean there were these guys and a few others like the tri-barrel orbs in Outcast and Academy.

>>53263889
>that takes cues from the Imperial Japanese Army (or at least the common belief of the IJA being a WWI army that hadn't adapted properly to the times)? Maybe even use their shield guys to beef up the space equivalent of a banzai charge?
Brother, there's more to the IJA than that.
Make an attempt to read The Nobility Of Failure before anything else, but anyhow
It was not about fighting the last war as much as it was fighting to the death to ensure Americans don't understand trap porn

But anyhow, I see the First Order as more in the Hitler Jugend/SS 200% casualties division mold than imperial jap all told

>>53264193
I know the IJA was more than that Hollywood depiction, just wondering if that specific (mis)conception would have been appropriate to apply to the FO's general feel. I'm not too well-read on the Hitler Youth and SS, though. At most, I've heard that the SS frontline units varied greatly in terms of competence, but other than that, I'm not sure what the biggest takeaways should be from that comparison.

>>53264193
The word "not" shouldn't be there, ignore that, I'm drunk as hell and got part way through before deleting and starting a second thing

>>53264263
I feel like generally the first order should primarily prize ideological purity over any sort of logic to the utmost extant, dumping anything even vaguely resembling logic in favour of pure ideological fanaticism, like they'd rather have ten crazed teenagers over ten guys who actually know what they're doing but aren't fanatics

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>>53264395
Yeah, that sounds about right for the FO. Going full retard on the purity schtick seems like something Hux would do.

Speaking of ground combat, how large should a really high end planetary shield dome be? I sorta want something that forces massive slow land campaigns across a continent. Lotsa repulsor jammers and such to slow things down, fluctuating flight ceilings as the shield techs fuck with the lower level to ruin enemy air and artillery power.

Would it work?

>>53264505
He's a ginger, a soulless monster of terror that even Snoke would be wise to keep an eye on...

>>53264543
They can cover whole planets easily enough if you've got enough cash and people to run them. For smaller static units that just protect an area they do seem to be quite a large radius ranging from Gungan style ones (1km or so) all the way up to regional ones or networks that cover as much as you need them to

>>53264657
Full planet coverage needs a network. I am just wondering about a single powerful generator to foce a long campaign to destroy it.

>>53264743
Eggs in one basket is generally a bad idea.
Having multiples of them where you can cycle them through for repairs, cooling down and all that would make for a very hard nut to crack. eg- when they fire up the shield in the last episodes of S3 Rebels

Also terrain is a multiplier to defence.
Mountains are a nightmare for any type of vehicle, walker, replusor or tracked. Plus most of them wont always be able to aim high up from 0-elevation unless they're a specialist vehicle
Forests, mountains and the like are also very difficult for air support to deal with, if you funnel them into having them do their attack runs down a valley or slow them down to place accurate fire- missile up the shitter or AA fire and thanks for coming.
Any regular MSR's and tracks, cover it in mines and IED's

The most horrible place would be somewhere like underground caverns, it comes down to a knife work, close in fighting and grenades. No chance of advanced support, artillery and choking areas with dedicated defences.

>>53258093
Please don't bring this cancer here.
Your containment board is this way :
>>>/co/

>>53264543
A quick google indicates that the shield dish in RotJ is supposedly able to cover a moon, so a bunch of those things with redundancies?

If I was GM-ing I'd make it a giant sphere partly sunk in the ground with a facility built around the base and a local generator underneath. But that's just me liking the idea of people living next to technology the size of a mountain and ignoring it.

>>53257994
>hot-debate topics like Alderaan

Let's ignore the parts where the Imperial leadership act like mass-murdering fuckheads so we don't have to acknowledge that the Imperial leadership are mass-murdering fuckheads.

That makes sense. Also, it's not slavery but some other word, except where it's specifically termed slavery, which wouldn't happen and it's the Republican elites' fault anyway.

I can get having a boner for the faction with the cool ships and gear and accents but stop making shit up about how they're not bastards.

>>53257756
I'm with the guys who don't sterilize multiple inhabited planets on camera.

>>53264657
In a campaign context you may want to decide how much warship you get for your shield.

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>>53255432
You just have to believe.

>>53265509
Forced labour as a sanction is not slavery.
But I really don't get why we have those hot debates. You won't get people to agree about events that actually happened, getting them to agree on a fictionnal setting that went through decades of different authors is next to impossible.


I enjoy playing imperials as much as rebels or third-party factions like the assortments that you usually get in EotE.
It's totalitarian regime with a mad wizard at its head vs. terrorists, you just have to keep a bit of you side's propaganda in mind and you're good to go for an entire campaign.

>>53255432
Do lightsabers actually have width, or is it an optical effect?

I miss Bob Brown.

>>53266032
I like to think the "glow" is actually sharp, but not as sharp as the core of the blade.
Like your finger would be burnt if you put it near it, but not severed.

>>53266062
I got some extensive read about lightsabres:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030404035901/http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres4.htm

>>53265728
Mobility is also an interesting idea for shields, either some kind of space based shield projector for fleets or even something like a big ground based one rolling around as sort of a 'theatre shield' for ground forces.
But yep on a strategic sense you've got to figure out just how much of your resources is going where and how much (perceived or actual) value you get out of them. Some societies might opt for the turtle defence of having massive bulwarks and shields, others will simply go on the offence straight away by ramming battleships down the throat of anyone that fucks with them.
Or a bit of both.

>>53265969
>Forced labour as a sanction is not slavery.
Nope, peonage is also classed as slavery under the definition of it and wrapped up under the forced labour conventions.

>>53266032
Its 'sharp' in the sense that it makes whole things into multiple things, but maybe closer to something like a really ferocious gas blowtorch or thermite lance

Course- there is some 'fantasy' disassociation on holding something which is screamingly hot and capable of incinerating holes in walls, blast doors and human beings. Just like there is with fighting over a lake of lava or climbing through a hole you've made in a wall that is 'orange hot' and not completely immolating

>>53265969
>I enjoy playing imperials as much as rebels or third-party factions like the assortments that you usually get in EotE.
>It's totalitarian regime with a mad wizard at its head vs. terrorists, you just have to keep a bit of you side's propaganda in mind and you're good to go for an entire campaign.

>this guy playing as a rebel

I kind of want to see anon in an Age of Rebellion game, playing his conception of a rebel. Let us know how fast you get your shit kicked in by the GM when you commit war crimes. Make sure you let High Command know about 'em, too. Doesn't count as a terrorist organization if the higher-ups don't condone the terrorism.

All those niggas trying to school me in international law :^)

>>53266270
>Nope, peonage is also classed as slavery under the definition of it and wrapped up under the forced labour conventions.
Nope, as long as the value of those services as reasonably assessed is applied towards the liquidation of the debt and the length and nature of those services are respectively limited and defined.
source: http://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/SupplementaryConventionAbolitionOfSlavery.aspx

>>53266309
First thing, the point of roleplaying is kinda not to put your own ideology into your character, and play an interesting other instead. I don't think my GM is a psychopath IRL when he portrays the villain.
Second, we did assassinate a Moff while we were dressed as civilians, which is a war crime under the Geneva Convention of 1977 (art. 37).
source: https://shop.icrc.org/les-protocoles-additionnels-aux-conventions-de-geneve-du-12-aout-1949.html
(and yes, that condemns Luke and Han dressing as stormtroopers, or using Tydirium or Rogue One shuttles).
I will also remind you of Captain Cassian's words:
>Some of us... Well, most of us... we've all done terrible things on behalf of the Rebellion. Spies, saboteurs, assassins. Everything I did, I did for the Rebellion. And every time I walked away from something I wanted to forget, I told myself it was for a cause that I believed in... A cause that was worth it... Without that, we're lost. Everything we've done would have been for nothing... I couldn't face myself if I gave up now... None of us could.
A man we saw kill an informant so he couldn't be captured by the empire in one of the first scenes in the movie.

I would like to know of an armed insurrection movement that never made moral compromises. A successful one, if possible.
The Rebellion might be fighting the evil Galactic Empire, but portraying them as angelical is absurd.

>>53266548
Peonage can be associated with debt as well as criminal activity being repaid by labour, but by definition if covers labour being enforced by conditions where the peon has no say in their conditions, wages or term of being 'employed'
Typically if you look at how its done in the Empire (Ahsoka novel) they basically roll in, take the land and force those people there to grow stuff, its enforced with the control of food- don't make quotas or work hard enough, you starve. You get cranky about it, you get shot in the face.

It still sort of exists in a lot of countries like Afghanistan, some of the more backwater parts of Pakistan that I've seen. Even places like Russia only really stopped it in the late 1910's... though the revolution there really just changed how it was termed with 'state farming' and other such blunders of Communism

What you're saying and what actually is, are two different things right now.

>>53266548

How, exactly, did all of these individuals, who curiously enough are all the same species, end up in debt to the Empire such that they had to work their entire lives to pay off? What services were they rendered? Do we have any evidence that anyone was able to successfully work off this debt?

I have rewinded the comment chain and I have no idea what species you're talking about.

>>53266739
You're confusing peonage (a.k.a debt bondage), forced labour in general, and slavery.
The situation in your example isn't peonage; I think the english term would be financial pressure. It can be similar to slavery, however it seems that Raada was a controlled venture even before the Empire came, as evidenced by the overseers, and the farmer's mobility isn't restricted (one goes to Sullust with his family at the beginning of the occupation, and it's stated than Ashoka can leave anytime she wants since she has a ship).
Nonetheless, it can be considered planned extermination. which is pretty stupid in a setting where tons of recently decomissioned multi-purpose droids are available, but heh.

And he got shot in the face for assaulting an officer while drunk, not "getting cranky".

>>53266548
I forgot: Reprogramming K2-S0 and considering all imperial officers to be war criminals are also war crimes by our laws. The last one being edicted by Mon Mothma herself.

>>53267242
I think he's talking about Wookies.

>>53267242
>I have rewinded the comment chain and I have no idea what species you're talking about.

Well, I was thinking of Wookiees, but there are any number of examples. You still haven't addressed the question. If the so-called slaves are really just being forced to do labor to pay off a debt, as you implied in >>53265969 and >>53266548, then what possible thing could the Wookiees or any individual Wookiee have done that places them in such a debt? "Not being human" isn't a valid reason, as much as you seem to wish it was.

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What's he sad about, /swg/?

>>53267600
The space PX stopped selling Ripped Fuel

>>53267315
Yes, I hate the wookies, they are subhuman furballs. I am racist IRL and project my insecurities on fantasy and sci-fi races, as well as my political views on fictional organizations.


On a more serious tone, I just want people to stop misusing law terms.
Let's have some definitions, from the slavery convention of 1926:
>Slavery is the status or condition of a person over whom any or all of the powers attaching to the right of ownership are exercised (that means usus, fructus and abusus).
However, this leaves some glaring holes that were quickly exploited. Therefore a second treaty was signed, giving us:
>"Peonage", forced labour to pay off a debt, if the service provided exceeds the debt.
>Serfdom, which is unpaid labour where the serf cannot improve his condition
As you may notice, this still leaves some glaring holes, mainly about state forced labour, because states are usually reluctant to loosen their control and/or be held responsible in front of a court. The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights reinforces that by explecitely authorizing forced labour in some cases (punishment, military or civil service)

It's forced labour, it's evil (or at least unlawful under our international treaties, though you could argue due to the vagueness of the treaties.), but it's not slavery.
It is, however, covered by the article 1 of the convention 105 of the ILO (a, b and e for the wooks).
http://www.ilo.org/dyn/normlex/en/f?p=NORMLEXPUB:12100:0::NO::P12100_ILO_CODE:C105

tl; dr: It's not slavery, the wookies are conscientious objectors and the Empire is using a loophole.

On a sidenote, I recommend to anyone interested by those matters to look at the website of the office of the high commissioner for human rights. Those are relatively easy reads that highlight some very interesting and very important issues of our current world. You can begin with the one on human trafficking.
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/PublicationsResources/Pages/FactSheets.aspx

>>53267741
I bet the soviets were behind those gaping holes, what with the gulags and all

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>>53267600
Lack of Imperial Army in new canon compared to Stormtrooper wankery. No special missions team, no swamp troopers.
No stats for most of COMPNOR troops or rebel Specforces either, but an Imperial trooper would probably not be saddened by the fact.


>>53267834
You'd be surprised by the amount of comdemnations by international courts refusals to ratify international treaties amassed by the western nations.
But I have derailled this thread enough with my autism.

>>53267741
So, by your own admission, the Empire's actions, at least in this case, were evil and/or unlawful.

Excellent. Glad to see you're coming around to our point of view. Now I believe we have answered the question you posited in >>53257994:

>Why exactly is thinking the Empire would be a good society to live in a wrong, shitposty, insane thing?

The majority of the galaxy's population is non-human. The Empire is discriminatory against non-humans. This much is beyond dispute. Every single mention of the Empire's interaction with non-humans in both old and new canon specifies as such.

No Alderaan, no fascism. Just the fact that a majority of the population had shittier lives.

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Hey rebelfags, you call the Empire discriminatory against non-humans, right.
How many non-humans do you see on this pic ?


... That's what I thought.

>>53268253
>Glad to see you're coming around to our point of view
Anon, my words were "totalitarian regime with a mad wizard at its head". That's hardly coming around to anything.
For the rest, >>53265969 was my first post in this thread, you guys can continue to duke it around which faction as the biggest e-peen/moral schlong. As long as you use accurate technical vocabulary it's fine by me, if sterile by nature.

>>53268435
Who would have thought that a room full of Imperial defectors would be mostly human

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>>53268435

Hmm, you're right.
Lets look at some other Alliance groups and see if it bears out.

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>>53268435
>>53268584

Hmm.
I mean, its probably just Mon Cals, right?
I doubt there's any other non-humans there -

Oh.

>>53267600
What's he sad about, /swg/?

When forest bears eat all your friends

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>>53268584
>>53268601

>>53267600
He got assigned to an AT-ACT instead of an AT-AT.

>>53268601
>>53268862
To be fair with him, the number of aliens in the Alliance is pretty low in the OT, despite them apprearing a lot more in civilian areas like the cantina or Jabba's palace.
>aliens count
ANH: Empire 1 (Kubaz spy) - Alliance 1 (Chewbacca)
ESB : 2 (Boosk and the gant) - 2 (Chewie, Yoda)
RotJ: 0 - 6+ (Yoda, three MonCal, 2 Sullustans, a mention of Bothan spynet).
I wonder why they didn't reuse some alien props in the briefing rooms.

On the other hand, Lucas didn't use a lot of aliens in the Republic either. Maybe he wanted to keep it to more exotic and lively settings, like seedy bars or outer rim planets, in order to create a specific ambiance.

>>53268946

In fairness, in the original films as well its a matter of cost, too.

They filmed General Madine doing all of Ackbar's stuff during the Battle of Endor in case the Ackbar puppet didnt work out.

Also you forgot Chewie from RotJ

>>53268946
Might also just be practicality issues. Decent alien costumes are probably expensive and may not always be comfortable. I can't even imagine how uncomfortable the Tatooine alien actors must have been while filming day scenes.

>>53268946
>Maybe he wanted to keep it to more exotic and lively settings, like seedy bars or outer rim planets, in order to create a specific ambiance.


Exactly, that's probably a thing that I hate about Coruscant in the PT, it felt more like a huge version of the Cantina than something like Trantor, which was the main inspiration for it in the first place.

Not to mention the serious lack of human Jedi waifus.

>>53268435
Costumes cost money.

>>53268450
Huh. I genuinely had you confused with the guy upthread. My apologies. Sorry as well for the implied go-back-to-/pol/, I thought you'd said the 'humans are the best because we're humans' stuff.

I still think you're wrong about the slavery, we clearly see usus, fructus, and abusus in the Wookiees.

>>53269123
But then the same could be said of the Empire. Maybe even more since their uniforms are a lot tighter.
Guys, let's drop it, it's going nowhere.

>>53269224

You say that, but they didnt *try* to put any aliens in the empire.

For the rebels, they had a couple of token ones, and also filmed a second version of stuff in case Ackbar didnt work out.

There's no evidence that they ever even considered making the Empire ayy inclusive. And all the canon since then was very definitively ayy-exclusionary.

>>53269224
I meant alien costumes. As in getting in a suit for a scene. They're also pretty uncomfortable.

>>53269259
Yes, I meant that due to the cut of imperial costumes compared to the rebel flightsuits, and the mandatory caps, it would be even harder to design the alien bits.

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>>53269000
Sometimes they didn't even bother with good ones
>RIP Wolfman, sorry George chopped you out

>>53269182
Might be, I haven't read all the EU stuff. Any example? Did they sell wookies at some point?

>>53269340

You say that, but Rebel officer uniforms arent much different in terms of fit to Imperial ones.

>>53250937
Well we have that old Kenner toy made canon again to use as a baseline I think. You can also have that hovertank from R1.

>>53269441
>Did they sell wookies at some point?
There was lore about the empire selling enslaved wooks to the tradoshans to be resold to whoever they want, yeah

>>53269447
Mon Cals don't use rebel uniforms, and Sullustans use baggy flighsuits.
They could have given special uniforms to imperial aliens, but it would kinda ruin the uniform (and faceless) theme they got.

>>53269519

That's kinda my point - the Rebel officer suits being fitted didnt really make any difference. The Mon Cals are there anyway and they dont care, the Sullustans are there and just wear baggier flightsuits, Chewies there and wears a handbag and belt.

The Empire has nothing of the sort - the closest they come is hiring bounty hunters, and none of them even have any lines - the only one to talk is YA BOY BOBA.

>>53269576
There's also the imperial informant on Tatooine.

>>53269647
You're absolutely right, I always forget that guy - though, again, I figure he's more in the style of the bounty hunters rather than an actual dyed-in-the-wool imperial agent.

Though, if he is an actual imperial agent, it just goes to show that the empire didnt have to have uniforms that matched for aliens, either.

>>53269707
If I was a spy, I would try and keep a low profile.

>>53269707
That's the problem with imperials. They're so uniformized that you don't know if they're aliens ("Hey, TK-1224, look at that ugly rodian over there" "That's my sister you're talking about, you schutta"), and when they're not uniformized you don't know that they're imperials.

>>53269855

>looking shady as shit in black robes and hiding your face
He's not particularly low profile, but I take your point.

>>53269874
True enough, but by the same token before of 'ayys dont fit in imperial uniforms' they definitely dont fit in the average stormtrooper helmet most of the time.

>>53269855
He's literally the most well-known spy in Mos Eisley.

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http://www.popsci.com/ai-pilot-beats-air-combat-expert-in-dogfight

>The year is 2017
>We have men guiding drones across the ocean

>The year is 2032
>Pilot on scene controlling the engagements of a squad of 5 fighter jets that can out shoot, out fly, and out kill the best of the best

>A Long Time Ago, in a Galaxy Far, Far Away
>Interceptor Ace Ayli "Stragon Leader" Blasternak controlling a flight of TIE/M3 Warhead Interceptors

[MISSILE LOCK WARNINGS INTENSIFIES]

>>53269946

>you will never have a Star Wars Ace Combat game
>you will never fly inside the trenches of the Avalon Weapons system to prevent the Empire from launching the V2 hyperspace superweapon
>your best friend will never betray you and fly in to stop you with a souped up Defender as you duel him over the burning ruins of the base, outgunned but never outmatched

Would it really be too much to ask?

>>53270024
>EA owns the license
Yes.

>>53270099
>>We get Star Wars H.A.W.X instead

Truly this is the worst of time lines.

>>53270149

I'd take HAWX at this point!
Just give me some over the top arcadey flight games in star wars.

Disclaimer ; ones that have good controls, dont just take Battlefront's abortion of a flight model and slap it on a new game.

>>53270099
Why must you remind me of the things that hurt the most.

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>>53270024
>Yo, Buddy, you still alive?

>>53269920
>they definitely dont fit in the average stormtrooper helmet most of the time.
If the recent threads are anything to judge by, now we'll get a story about a twi'lek twink complaning about how his stormtrooper helmet chafes his lekkus.

>>53270173
Wounldn't you rather have a new X-Wing/TIE fighter game?

>>53270178

Did you know, there are three kinds of aces?

>we will never have this kind of thing in a Star Wars game.
Why fucking live at this point.

Because Ace Combat 7 is coming to PC, that's fucking why.

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>>53270209
>tfw AC7 has lasers
So close yet so far.

>>53270208

Honestly im not sure.
I'd love a new X-Wing / TIE game just as I'd love a new Rogue Squadron game.
But we dont hve anything quite as insane / over the top as Ace Combat and I'd really love that shit.

At this point though, I'd take fucking any new flight game set in Star Wars, regardless of style.


>>53270216
Im so fucking hype it's unreal, man.
Gf just finished AC Zero this last weekend, I think it's got her wanting to play an Ace in AoR.
Im so fucking hype for that, time to write a new campaign of Wraith Squadron shenanigans which ends up with a trench run and duel.

>>53270209
>Ace Combat 7
you heard it got delayed, right?

>>53270173
I can only dream of a war thunder style game being made when EA switches to hiring cheap Eastern European programmers.

>>53270181
After 11BBY the remnant started recruiting aliens, so that's definitely a thing

>>53270240

Yeah. But I mean, I'd rather wait a bit longer for a perfect Ace Combat game than get it earlier and have it be less good.

>>53270246
I swear there was a wart hunder SW game in the works a while back, it got canned i think.
It didnt look amazing, but still, I want to be a goddamn X-Wing pilot man. I need it.

>>53270272
>Yeah. But I mean, I'd rather wait a bit longer for a perfect Ace Combat game than get it earlier and have it be less good.
you know the statistics on game delays and failure on launch, right?
If they delay again, it's a straight up death sentence. Delaying to begin with puts one foot in the grave.

>>53270333

Don't kill my dreams man, please.

>>53270354
I want it to do good, too. I'm just saying that "if they delay it, it'll be worth it on launch" is wrong more often than not.

>>53270391

I know.
Im just living in hope.
Rebellions are built on hope.

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>>53269946
>>53270024
>>53270178

>>53270255
Didn't the Empire have a handful of female stormtroopers in Legends, too?

Not sure how I feel about that, honestly.

>>53270434

Sexes are equal in star wars, generally, though obviously being filmed in the 70s and 80s kinda impacted that being shown on film.
Some books had the Empire being sexist, some less so. Guess it depends on wherein the empire you are.

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I emerge from the mire to pronounce Chapter II complete!
https://pastebin.com/kip9CJ4B
Enjoy, perverts!
I love you.
More actual squadronfic soon, I promise.

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>>53270272
Maybe if Chris Roberts and Mark Hamill are showered with enough money to turn Star Citizen into X-Wing Commander.
>tfw we'll never have a Star Wars flight sim with the /swg/ dream cast

>>53270499

>you will never place Star Wars: SpAce Combat
>you will never play Star Wars Citizen

Fucking christ I dont want these feels man, why do this.

I would do anything for a fucking Star Wars Citizen.

>>53270216
Still swamped by work/writers block or will there be a new XW:HD/XW:SOL/SW:Top Gear stuff soon?

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>>53270434
Maybe
They're kind of shy though

>>53270537
Hopefully soon. Still wrapping up some last things, but hoping to get back to work by this weekend. Oddly inspired to write another /swg/ holiday special for reasons unknown to me, though.

>>53270619
Cool shit. I've been re-reading you stuff and i'm itching for more.

>>53270434
Yeah, some. Again, more after 11ABY and the remnant

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>>53268946
Cost has been mentioned a few times, but I really like in star wars the dichotomy that aliens simlutaneously represent brown people and monsters (I'm not calling brown people monsters fuck off). they are both supposed to represent symbols of diversity and inclusivity, and the strange, dangerous unknown.

The aliens in Mos eisley the Cantina are used to
create an environment of unfamiliarity and weirdness. Luke isn't in kansas anymore: this is a galaxy far far away, which is a point that needs to be hammered home quickly in the film.

The rebels on yavin are mostly (pretty much entirely from what we see) human, making them very sympathetic and relatable. its harder to care about a bunch of weird looking aliens without giving them human personalities, which the film really doesn't have time for.

Skiping ahead to jabba's palace is interesting because now the aliens there are literally demons. this is luke's descent to hell, and the creatures he faces inside are meant to be horrifying and cruel.

Core world prejudices keep only the very human-like aliens in the upper level of couruscant, the weirder ones are stuck in dexter's bar and seedy night clubs. there are just enough aliens in the backgroud of the senate and jedi temple to remind you this is a diverse and massive city that draws upon the whole galaxy, but that this is primarily a human world, which again, lends relatability to the republic opposed to the separatists, whose council is almost entirely alien and meets on the hostile, barren, bug infested Genosis.

>>53271049
interesting analysis.

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>>53271049
Additionally, the Empire being mostly human makes them more relatable too. but this time relatable to real life "evil" factions. if this was an empire led by a specific alien race, say twileks, we'd need to understand their culture to understand why they're evil, and then we'd need to have a discussion of "is that way of life evil, or just different, can we coexist with this way of life?" which isn't what star wars is about. lucas just wants to say "these are the baddies" and you can immediately relate to their baddy status by comparing them to what ever real life baddy you think they are.
Star trek does this exceptionally with the kiligons, ferengi, and romulans and more. giving each a distinct culture and the (mostly)human federation needs to find a way to coexist. but star wars doesn't have the same luxury of time.

>>53271281
This.
Mark Hamill has said a lot that Star Wars is a story about the nature of human spirit. The Empire being human is necessary for this narrative.

>>53271281
I love that nearly every move that Lucas made that was him being lazy helped to make the OT better.

Fun fact: The deathstar was flat. How could the trench run be possible on a curved surface?

>>53240935
It's fun for a few evenings if you just blitz through the class stories and ignore everything else. I wouldn't stick with it long-term though.

>>53271454
It's worth logging in to play through expansions as they come out. Not worth playing in between though.

Hot off the presses:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kHr7YbXRMU

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>>53271367
I would argue that every good sci-fi story is about the nature of human spirit (type I aside).
But it is true that pitting humans against aliens, as the good or the bad guys, tells a different kind of story.

>>53241110
>competitive
that's not what I'm looking for in a RPG.
And unless they've redone the early quests, they're pretty not engaging.

>>53272353
I meant competition in the sense that different games are competing against each other for market space. You seem to have misinterpreted me.

I don't hear a lot about Armada. Is it because the game is worse than X-wing, or because people prefer starfighters to capital ships?

>>53273592
a little bit of the first, a lot of the second.

>>53273592
Neither. Just more expensive and longer.

are there anything like elves, dwarves and fairys in star wars?

>>53273890
There's Angels, I've heard the deep space pilots talk about them. They're the most beautiful creatures in the universe. They live on the moon of Iego, I think.

>>53273946
Naming a planet Lego was an attempt at product placement, right?

>>53274004
Iego, not LEGO.

>>53274004
That's an I, so Iego, not Lego.

>>53270496
Never trust a Zeltron!

>>53273592
Its smaller than X-wing's fanbase, more expensive to start, and the rules are a bit more complex. I play it, and actually have a game tomorrow, but its kind of fallen into its pre wave release slumber which Worlds did not help.

>>53274026
>>53274037
While it may be grammatically incorrect, perhaps it would be prudent to spell it in all lower case so as to remove any confusion;

The planet's name is "iego" not "Lego"

>>53274310
Now we're back to the TIE/LN conundrum.

It's TIE/ln (and TIE/in).
It's an acronym, there's no reason to put one letter in capital and not the others.

What if Democracy died not by thunderous applause but in the screams of a thousand councilors who opposed the nation as the stormtroopers blasters killed them?