GURPS General /GURPSGEN/

>>53132785
>Is GURPS a good system to introduce people to if they are new to roleplaying games?

I hope so. Our group has played a tiny bit of Pathfinder and a couple sessions of Deadlands Classic, so they're fairly new. But I'm interested in GURPS and am trying to read up on it now to run a game for them once I figure out the genre/setting I want to run

Yes, BUT it is a horrible system for entirely new groups (i.e. new players but also new GM).

GURPS can be super simple and newbie-friendly IF GMs know what they are doing and put in the effort to make (or steal) appropriate templates and set up a list of what rules are in effect. A fresh-faced GM isn't necessarily going to anticipate this, and equally-fresh-faced players won't have the RPG experience to roll with the punches, so to speak, and help the GM when he stumbles.

I'd also use Action for most first-timers.

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>>53132888
>once I figure out the genre/setting I want to run
Well, time to fire up them dice rollers, boy.

>>53133007
How well do the 3e books mesh with the 4e core?

>>53133007
Arabian Nights
Robots
Illuminati

Oh...Oh shit

>>53133007
>Prisoner
>Spirits
>Castle Falkenstein

Oh shit.

>>53132785

I would say that GURPS is a nice game for new (pen and paper) roleplayers. I've been GMing for my group for about a year. We were all rpg virgins when we started with Lite. Then we successively added elements from basic, then Martial Arts and whatever we felt was missing.

It's easy to get a grip of and very modular, which I see as very positive. You don't need every complicated rule and as a GM you can do whatever you like with the system. It's perfect for homebrew settings, but I guess it might be harder for new players if they aren't interested in creating their own settings. I feel that GURPS own settings are somewhat lackluster, but then I haven't read all of the book either.

I regularly invite new RPG virigns to my group and they all get the hang of it in a couple of hours and find it all fun and interesting. Non of them have even suggested changing to a more popular system like DnD or Pathfinder and I don't think we ever will.

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Here's a 100 points GURPS character for GURPS 4e. I think 100 points is a fair baseline for an adventurer.

ST 10, DX 10, IQ 10, HT 10
Don't even bother with advantages and disadvantages for now.

Set aside 20 points for side skills. This gives you 80 points to put into the guns skill of your choice. Pick rifles because they deal the most damage: you can just use defaults for the others, it won't matter because your skill will be so fucking high anyway. Guns is an Easy skill, so you can get it to 15 for 16 points. Another 16 will get it to 19, another 16 will get it to 23, another 16 will get it to 27, another 16 will get it to 31. There. You have put 80 points into your Rifles skill and now have a 31.

Now you can spread those other 20 points around into minor skills such as Armoury, First Aid, Stealth, et cetera. Sure you won't be good at them, but you're not the skill monkey. So who cares? You can headshot motorcycle gangs with lateral speed of 20 m/s from a half-mile. Oh, and if really want, take just 20 points of disadvantages and you can bump that rifles skill up to 36.

So what can you do with a 36 in Rifles? Well, lets take a look at the range / movement table. This is without taking a 1-second round to aim, by the way.

> you can easily score a headshot (-7) on a running target (-2) at 100 yards (-10). You're rolling against a 17 there, so you've got a 99% chance of success.
>If we extrapolate the range table, you could reliably hit someone at 1 mile distant who is running (-2) and be rolling against like a 17 or something.
>God forbid someone arms you with a Gauss rifle or even a .338. The former has Acc7+2, so with three seconds of aiming you could have an effective Rifle skill of 45.

GURPS 4e is broken.

Rolled 95, 95, 34 = 224 (3d100)

>>53133125
They're 90% fluff or background info. The rest is easily convertible with the official 3e-to-4e PDF floating around and/or a bit of work.

>>53133392

Yeez Louise! I sure hope my GM will allow this build cuz it sounds epic.

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>>53133392
>spending 80 points in one skill

Can you take Imbue as alternate ability to some other power?

>>53133464
>Yeez Louise! I sure hope my GM will allow this build cuz it sounds epic.

Why wouldn't he? It's within the rules. The rules are broken.

>>53133007
>Spirits
>Alternate Earths
>Dragons
This is a weird one... Ghosts and Dragons with the "non magical" infinite worlds?

Can you create spells in GURPS? My group plays the shit out of the Hero System and that's one of the things they really like

>>53133636
If your GM allows it, yes.

You would still need to invest points into your imbuement skills, however, and you wouldn't get a point break for only being able to access them occasionally. If it fits your character concept, try fitting your imbuement stuff (advantages AND skills) into an Alternate Form you "power up" into a'la DBZ or most magical girl series. That AF can then be bought as an Alternate Ability.

>>53133696
Alternate Earths focuses on six alt-history settings in particular. You could add in spirits and dragons to any of them, or make it a very tiny Infinite Worlds game with only six (still very different) timelines the party can jump across; get come cyber-Brazilians from Shikaku-Mon, equip them with tesla cannons from the Gernsback timeline, and go kick some Nazi ass from the back of a dragon with your ghost buddies before Reich-5 invades the other timelines.

>>53133392
>not spending 100 points on a group of 50 allies, each having 100 points, that show up 75% of the time
>not making those allies humans that have spent 100 points to get 41 in Rifles
Do you even powergame?

>>53133670
>Why wouldn't he?

Because how the hell could someone have realistically that many points in a single skill? Were they training the skill non-stop they were born? Even a full Masters degree (over a decade of learning) is about 20 CP spread across one to five skills. How is this a valid character concept?

>>53133464
>>53133481
He's someone from another thread that thinks GURPS character creation exist in a vacuum, without the context of a game.

>>53133985
In other words, Air Bud Logic. I thought these jerks grew out of this breed of munchkinism back when D&D 3.0 went out of print.

>>53133873
You *can*, but it's mostly freeform for the basic magic system. For most people, if flexible magic or the ability to create new spells is something they really want, they just switch to a different magic system, of which GURPS has T O N S. Symbol, Syntactic, Ritual-Path, and Sorcery are the more popular ones (especially the last two).

>>53133392
One of my players is constantly trying to pull this shit on me. I think I've posted one example of his homo genius long time ago - basically, he had put all the points into harpoon throwing, spear combat and dolphin riding. Then he was surprised when I threw his "character" away and told him to make a new one.

>>53133670
Rule 0, bitch. AK-74 is within the rules, doesn't means I will allow you one in a fantasy campaign. Actually I totally would allow it, but I will also bring enough for everybody.

>>53134058
>he had put all the points into harpoon throwing, spear combat and dolphin riding
That sounds like the best thing ever.

>>53133392
>>53134058
>>53134087
Actually, a campaign where everyone had a smattering of life skills and just chose one Small Talent-sized pool of skills to jack up to ridiculous levels might be fun for a very street-level Supers game.

>>53133985
>>53134058
the description of unusual background blows that kind of character concept right out of the water anyway
either they're taking a massive point tax for being an otherwise 'ordinary' dude with one or two literally legendary skills, or they're being rejected entirely, at GM's discretion.

not to mention the difficulties you'll have in actually playing a character with 10s across the board, no positive advantages whatsoever, a handful of skills (assuming you bothered putting anything above 11 - if all your skills are at 9 or 10 then top fucking lel) and an abysmal dodge score all mean that you're not going to be playing the character for long anyway

i might be interested in seeing how far such a character could survive, but ultimately i'd have to veto something like that if it came to my table.
i just don't imagine playing such a character would even be fun amongst more reasonable ones.

>>53134020
>Air Bud Logic
What do you mean by this?

>>53134135
I'm essentially doing that in my current campaign.
>DX 13
>8 points for Riding-15
>Animal Friend 4, so effectively Riding-19
>+1 from horse having Mount
>+5 since my horse knows and likes me
>Effectively 25 Riding (Horse)
Plus a full set of equestrian gear lets you offset up to -5 in penalties.
Or something to that effect, I don't have the character sheet in front of me.

>>53134353
Been forever since I've seen that movie, but I think it's that the argument for allowing a dog to play basketball is "There's no rule saying dogs CAN'T play basketball!" Basically, the logic states that you can do something as long as there's no rule explicitly stating you cannot.

99% sure this bullshit has an actual name.

Can someone explain me how the fuck Survival skill works? From what I understand, it has some stupid recalculation mechanic involved, so when you have 13 in Survival (Tundra), you are automatically having 11 of Survival (Desert).
Dafuq?!

>>53133007
>Creatures of the Night
>Illuminati
>Banestorm

The illuminati has been whisked to Yrth and must fight the demons and monsters to become the true rulers of the planet.

>>53134483
Kinda related to the Oberoni Fallacy.

>>53133007
>Deadlands: Weird West
>Mysteries
>Villains
Time for a magical train murdery-mystery game with a mid-campaign robbery climax.

>>53134578
>Stupid recalculation mechanic
You mean skill defaults? And yeah, at the end of the day, the survival skill is about finding food, water, and shelter while mitigating the effects of the elements; the specifics will obviously differ, but general core concepts transfer. If you know how to regulate your body temperature in extreme cold, you might know a trick or two that you can use in extreme heat. If you know how to collect water in the incredibly dry tundra, you can probably slapdash something together for the also incredibly dry traditional desert. If you know where critters tend to hide from the blistering sun, you can probably guess where critters tend to hide from freezing winds.

Also note that dropping from 13 to 11 means you're going from about 80% to about 60% success rate, and that's assuming proper gear. If you drop a dude packing nothing but cold-weather gear into the Sahara, he's going to have a bad time.

>>53134483
Of course the problem with this is that it's also GURPS Rules As Written that all characters must be approved by the ST, rather then being an unwritten rule it's explicate.

The GM is not required to justify or explain why a novelty joke character is rejected from a game.

>>53134797
Still doesn't make much sense. I mean how the fuck you expect from an Eskimo hunter to survive in a tropical jungle? He's even less adjusted to that than Joe Average and his survival knowledge is literally worthless

>>53134483
Yup, that's what I meant.

XKCD had a comic presenting the counter-argument; "There's nothing in the rule book saying we can't kill and eat your dog."

>>53134973
And THAT is where the GM is justified in ruling in MORE severe penalties to the defaults

>>53134381
Eh. Skill 15 for horse riding is perfectly reasonable for experienced Mongol raiders, and the Talent is fine, too. The rest is just skill bonuses (which only last as long as your current horse does, in the same way a doctor relies on having good medical equipment available).

Not that cinematic. Even an effective skill 25 is merely a (once in a generation) grand master.

>>53134973
He knows how to hunt, trap, fish, and forage. He also knows how to spot suitable shelter. His main foe is the moisture and lack of specific knowledge (which berries are poison vs which ones are delicious, what the fuck a panther is, etc.), but I feel that's covered by the default penalty.

If you really want, though, slap on an Unfamiliarity penalty for an extra -2, or even use the rules from p. B173; an eskimo has literally no knowledge of tropical climes, and as such does not get to roll at default

>>53135470
I think unfamiliarity works. He'd be fucked on his first foray, and do better the second and third time time around, but he'd still be more skilled in colder areas he's grown up in.

>>53135343
It's still high enough to trivialise most riding-related tasks, even very hard ones, and the fact that so much of it comes from the bonuses related to horse and gear adds some nice flavour to it. Gives you an extra reason to build that relationship between rider and mount.
You're a once in a generation rider with your horse, but with other horses you're just pretty good.

It's rarely even very relevant to the campaign, if you need to ride you usually don't need to be super good, but it's a fun character aspect, especially when the GM lets me get away with some of my more outrageous bullshit.

So, character creation thoughts. Giving Worm a second shot after I left it behind, and I'm slowly going through to try and figure out how characters' sheets would work. Stuck on one.

The first(?) villain that shows up, Lung, starts out weak but his powers grow with no defined limit as fights extend, taking on dragon attributes. I don't imagine that sort of scaling works in GURPS, so you'd then have to constrain it to a certain maximum power level. Is the character, no matter what, going to have the hilariously high points cost of their maximum power even if it's unlikely it'll ever be reached (10+ minutes in a single combat encounter, resetting as soon as the fighting stops)?

>>53135878
>Is the character, no matter what, going to have the hilariously high points cost of their maximum power even if it's unlikely it'll ever be reached (10+ minutes in a single combat encounter, resetting as soon as the fighting stops)?
Yes. Lung has effectively unlimited potential, given enough time. Infinite power is going to cost a lot.

For Worm, and supers in general, I suggest not caring too much about the point totals. Read this blog post, but tl;dr: build to concept, stick within a given range (500~2500 is the example).
http://www.ravensnpennies.com/2016/08/gamemasters-guidepost-building-player.html

Also, build the character first, then the powers. Start with the 25~150 points for your character built without powers, then add on the 350~2350 points of power(s) they have. Balance is going to be a bitch no matter what you do, so it's best to not think of things in point totals, which are poor measures of power to begin with.

>>53135971
Oh, yeah. I was just trying to think on how it would work out mechanically. I've played in a GURPS supers game before; it was ill-fated (ironically enough, *because* of Worm), but "concept over character" definitely applied there.

>>53136035
I'm not sure how to do it. A self-targeting affliction with Cumulative could work, and "Only while Berserk" is a -20% limitation from Power-Ups Enhancements. Get Reflexive on there and he can just spam himself into oblivion levels of ST, but you'll probably want to self-afflict Super-Effort ST.

What's the best books to look at for getting a good idea on how to create your own custom racial templates?

I'm looking at mostly trying to flesh out human successor species well based off of different animals being spliced with human DNA.

What is the proper way to make sure a racial template is balanced?

>>53136498
>What's the best books to look at for getting a good idea on how to create your own custom racial templates?
Bio-Tech. Bio-Tech is full of racial templates.

>>53136498
>Balanced
Experience. Failing that, How to Be a GURPS GM may help. Toolkits I: Templates focuses mostly (IIRC) on occupation/"class" templates, but the advice in it should work fine for racial templates.

>>53136498
>What is the proper way to make sure a racial template is balanced?
Make sure the totals are right?

Seriously, though, one caveat of any game is that things are not going to 100% balanced all the time. Aim to only grant purely physical mechanical advantages and that's a good baseline. A species might have an extra set of arms, but don't go giving their race extra attack off the bat

>>53135470
>He knows how to hunt, trap, fish, and forage
In tundra
>He also knows how to spot suitable shelter
In tundra
>His main foe is the moisture and lack of specific knowledge (which berries are poison vs which ones are delicious, what the fuck a panther is, etc.)
So he basically knows shit

And yet unless you outright ban it, you can make an Eskimo hunter with Survival (Tundra) at 16, then land him in the middle of Kongo and he will do just fine, or at least much better than, say, white kid backpacking there. The default penalty is shit and the entire assumption of "if you can survive in X, then you can surely do fine in Y" is just plain retarded. I'm no survivalist or traveller, but I know that I would probably die if I ended up in mountains, despite doing extensive hikes - in a huge-ass forest placed in a rolling plain. I don't even want to imagine how things would go if I was stranded in Arctica.
And by GURPS rules I would still do better than the next guy with zero practice, because my Survival (Forest) magically transforms into Survival (Arctic) with barely any noticable penalty.

Who wrote this shit?!

>>53136995
Who Gets a Default?
Only individuals from a society
where a skill is known may attempt a
default roll against that skill. For
instance, the default for Scuba skill
assumes you are from a world where
scuba gear exists and where most
people would have some idea – if only
from TV – of how to use it. A
medieval knight transported to the
21st century would not get a default
roll to use scuba gear the first time he
saw it!

>>53136995
That makes some sense though. Sure, you haven't learned the locale-specific aspects of the skill, but if you have points in a survival skill you know a lot of basics of how to survive in the wilderness, like the need to seek shelter, how to manage your water, probably how to set some traps that you can use elsewhere, etc.

>>53136498
>>53136548
>>53136711
>>53136727
I mean doesn't the whole points thing GURPS uses ensure anything is balanced as long as it conforms with the point limit set by the DM?

>>53137104
Not really. Points don't measure balance. They can generally measure bredth and depth, but they are not inherently balanced.

>>53136995
>In tundra
Fishing's pretty universal, Tundra isn't a frozen wasteland 356 days a year, there are summers. Certain skills for hunting and trapping are the same no matter where you go. Forage might be the only one he has trouble with.

Survival also encompasses skills like knowing how to take care of your body, knowing your own limits, basic stuff like starting a fire or using a knife or building a shelter from twigs.

I'd say an Eskimo hunter who spent his whole life surviving off the land has a way better chance of surviving in the a completely unfamiliar biome than a city dweller does.

As someone else pointed earlier, a further -2 penalty for lack of familiarity makes sense.

>>53136995
>I'm no survivalist or traveller
Ya don't say? Are you also not an experienced reader either? Because you managed to miss the second half of my post that gave you exactly what you wanted; instead you just sat in your chair and REEEE'd.

Also, are you fucking saying that a weekend spent backpacking with $400 in camping gear and supplies means you have Survival (Forest) at a professional level? Or that a -3 isn't a significant penalty? A -3 can turn a learned hand (skill-12, or ~75% chance of success) into a clumsy oaf (effective skill-9, or ~35% chance of success).

>>53136995
In truth a lot of survival knowledge is transferable.

Shelter able to hold in warmth and hold out water in the same world-wide and the knowledge of the importance of fresh water, if not where to find it in that environment, is vital. How to build a fire is likewise the same world around.

Don't worry too much about it though. GURPS is a good game, but it doesn't try to flawlessly simulate everything about the world with flawless accuracy.

>>53137040

And that is a good point.

>>53136498
>>53136711
>Race templates and balance.

Fantasy and the Basic Set have parts for this too. In general I'd work less on strict mechanical balancing between available races then making sure everyone has an interesting or cool thing that would make a player pick that race over others.

>>53137104
Ish. The classic example is that a 250-point banker with loads of Status, Wealth, professional and social skills, and all the right advantages is going to get curbstomped in a fight by a 50-point thug.

When designing racial templates, give each one a focus (this should already be the case if they're gengineered humans meant for specific jobs/environments), but make sure their traits are useful OUTSIDE of their specialty and don't go balls-deep into any one thing; if you're familiar with 3.PF's class tiers, aim for making tier 3 templates that are good at their chosen thing and somewhat useful outside of that comfort zone. Talents and attribute bonuses are great for this IMO.

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>>53136548
>>53136711
>>53137263
I've heard Transhuman Space is pretty helpful for making post-human races, but I don't know about it myself and there's like 10 Transhuman Space books.

>>53137828
Changing Times is the 3e-to-4e update PDF. Everything else is mostly irrelevant for your purposes; check the folder for 3e stuff instead and the the core version (simple called Transhuman Space).

>>53133007
>Fantasy
>Dragons
>Magic
I actually rolled this. My life is boring.

>>53137971
Would the racial templates be basically the same between 3 and 4?

>>53138561
ST was changed severely.
Also in 3e HP was tied to HT so it can be too high sometimes.

>>53138561
Mostly, though point values will change because 4e dropped 3e's wonky cost progression in favor of a flat x/level cost. Also Basic Lift was changed, so ST values tend to be lower across the board.

Check out Changing Times. It not only goes into detail what changed and how, but also gives a good number of updated templates for baseline human, human+, and para-human species.

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How would you stat this glorious quadruple chin when there are no levels of Appearance above Transcendent?

>>53133007
>GURPS table
>Not rolling Kosher 3d6
D'you think imma filthy dndmaggot?

>>53133007
>Russia
>Low Tech
>SWAT
Might be cool. Not sure how it'd work, though.

>>53133007
>Vikings
>Cabal
>Age of Napoleon
Sounds fun.

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>>53133007
>Black Ops
>Martial Arts
Cool, sounds interesting
>Magic
Nope!

>>53139812
That's a load of bull.

Clearly he would have high moo-vement,

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>>53140327
This one is easy.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streltsy
>Streltsy were the units of Russian guardsmen from the 16th to the early 18th centuries, armed with firearms. They are also collectively known as Marksman Troops.
>The first streltsy units were created by Ivan the Terrible sometime between 1545 and 1550 and armed with arquebuses. ... Subsequently, military service in this unit became lifelong and hereditary.
>The streltsy of Moscow guarded the Kremlin, performed general guard duty, and participated in military operations. They also carried out general police and fire-brigade functions in Moscow.
>Streltsy had identical uniforms, training and weapons. Uniforms consisted of red, blue or green coats with orange boots. Their primary weapon was an arquebus or musket, and they carried poleaxes or bardiches, and sabers for defense; some units used pikes. The longer weapons were also used to support the arquebus or musket while firing.
>The Muscovite government was chronically short of cash and so did not often pay the streltsy well.

Streltsy Weapons and Tactics.

You're playing a band of overworked, underpaid armed guardsmen based out of Moscow.
Your unit is responsible for guarding the most high-priority targets and responding to the most severe threats. Revolutionaries, heretics, upstart nobles and corrupt officials are the kind of threats that you're responsible for stopping. Place it any time from 1550 to 1721, but probably around the Streltsy Uprising of 1698

What's a good, simple introductory type of campaign?

>>53140568
Dungeon Fantasy.

>>53140594
Did the standalone game ever come out?

>>53140853
Current release date is October/November.

>>53140922
Great.

Don't imagine anything more modern makes a good intro? I've had complaints about medieval fantasy in my group before. Might just be bad D&D experiences, but who knows.

>>53140984
Could use WWII. It's standalone (contains Lite), but it's built for 3e, so you'd have to do conversion work if you wanted to use it.

>>53141000
Hm. Might have a Weird War II plan...

>>53133007
ok but were are the anime settings

>>53134483
>>53135287
It sounds more like white room theorycrafting
Yeah in THEORY you could Wish for a Candle and go fucking nuts, but if you get a candle and don't use it 'normally', I'll just kick you out because I'm the DM and you're not.

>>53133007
>Autoduel
>OGRE
>Spirits

not familiar with autoduel or OGRE but I think it would be a wild ride.

>>53141720
Autoduel is Carmageddon as an RPG (by way of Car Wars the wargame), and OGRE is a universe where 'you are a bunch of electronics embedded in a massive block of metal calling itself a tank, also your main weaponry is nukes' is a totally normal character concept.

Ghosts are the least of your problems.

>>53141434

In Action! Cinematic rules, and Martial Arts. Make your own setting.

>>53141720
OGRE is...well, it's a Bolo by any other name, really. Fucking land battleships directed by scary competent AI.

>>53141740
Actually, if they can possess machines and computers, ghosts are a very large problem: all the firepower of an OGRE with all the omnicidal rage of a wronged wraith.

>>53140356
Whats wrong with magic?

>>53144801
A lot of Anons (myself included) feel that it doesn't mesh well with the rest of GURPS. Everything about GURPS, from running to chargen to playing, is about tweaking and customization. Then you see Magic and its laundry list of static effects with no real guidelines on making your own. It's just a weird combo. On top of that, there are some straight-up issues with Magic, including a) infinites and absolutes which don't exist anywhere else in the system, b) funky broken spells (Enlarge Self, anyone?), and c) shit they didn't change from 3e like discrete kW ratings.

On the other hand, maybe >>53144801 is just unhappy with the combo.

>>53145366
Are there good ways to tweak magic to make it more fitting?
I assume psi powers suffer from the same kind of problems?

I've been wanting to incorporate a dual magic system into my campaign, one being a "safe" nanomachine based magic that consumes a material not unlike the Dust from the Endless Legend/Space series, and one being a more dangerous occultist type magic that can be more powerful and more risky to use, requiring a connection to a dark entity to be able to perform. Also possible ways to fuse the two.

Can GURPS work with that idea?

>>53145892
>I assume psi powers suffer from the same kind of problems?
Nope, unless you're talking about 3e; 4e is a LOT better.

When people talk about Magic (capitalized like that), they mean the default magic system and/or its expansion book of the same name; there are TONS of variants out there, and only Magic has those issues. Psionics and Sorcery use advantages as a base, Ritual-Path Magic is skill-based and exceptionally exceptionally flexible, etc. etc. Hit up the Thaumatology series to see what all is out there.

Your first magic system is probably something like Psionics or Sorcery -- "spells" are built and learned as advantages -- with all spells having the Trigger limitation to represent needing (I'm assuming) rare/expensive/illegal components to cast. Your second magic system will probably also be advantages-based if only to keep things consistent; instead of all spells having Trigger, though, they may all have Pact, plus another -10% if your connection can be severed by outside forces (e.g. another's spell, cross-dimensional static, blessed silver helm, etc.). Since it's risky, you probably also want to add Fickle from GURPS: Powers (you need to make a Reaction roll when using your power, with a Poor reaction meaning the spell fails and a Very Bad reaction meaning it backfires and fucks you up). A fusion of the two would likely just have Trigger, Pact, and Fickle (plus that extra -10%), bringing costs down a LOT.

Take a look at the Psionics chapter of the Basic Set as well as Thaumatology: Sorcery (a separate book from Thaumatology) to see some examples of "advantages as spells" in action as well as some examples on how to organize them.

I'm new to GURPS, and I'm gonna be playing in a space-fairing oneshot this week. What's the best way to make a face with 100 points (and max 40 from disadvantages) in GURPS 4e?

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Are silt-striders mounts or bio-vehicles?

>>53146981
Mounts I'd say. They seem to have been selectively bred like any other domesticated beastie. No magical genetic meddling is mentioned in the wiki, or in game from what I remember.

>>53147160
Aren't they kind of controlled by acupuncture to their brains though?

>>53146506
Most will have a few levels of Charisma as it helps with literally everything, and Empathy is a really solid choice. Beyond that, though, there are some choices to make. Reaction rolls are are automatic while influence rolls take time and a willing party; at the same time, though, influence rolls are easy to get pretty dang good at, can open more doors that raw reaction rolls, and have other uses. If you focus on reaction rolls, take Appearance, Status, Reputation, etc., and if you focus on influence rolls, obviously take the skills but also advantages that boost those skills, especially Talents.

In terms of skill choices, that's highly character-dependent; you should probably invest in all the influence skills but pick one or two to specialize in. Fast Talk is going to be a must for almost any character concept, though, as a little bit of bluffing is almost always necessary; if you're playing a rake or a conman, specialize in this skill. Honest negotiators use Diplomacy and probably have the Wealth, Patron, or Contact Group that can back up what the character promises. Streetwise is great for thugs and officials that have to deal with them on a regular basis. Sex Appeal is *the* skill for femme fatales, and the fact that it gets a Very Good reaction on a success makes it a viable choice. Intimidation often complements Fast Talk or Streetwise; it's not really worth specializing in by itself, though, if you're going for general face stuff (leave that to the muscle; a few points in Intimidation plus a size/strength/brutality bonus works wonders!). Lastly, Savoir-Faire is great in specialized cases but unless your GM is running a very specific campaign, probably shouldn't be a face's go-to skill.

>>53147246
Yeah IIRC you sit inside a hollowed-out lump and physically manipulate their brains. Genemodding is irrelevant; a genetically engineered super-horse is still a mount unless you introduce a cavity for people to ride in and control it from.

>>53147160
I mean gene-modding isn't necesarrily a requirement of making a bio-vehicle, and they do surgically modify siltstriders by carving up their shells and upholstering them.

Even in the bio-tech book it talks about how bio-vehicles could easily be natural animals that have had surgical modification done to them depending on your setting and it's natural fauna.

>>53147246
>>53147343
The fact that you carve open silt striders to make a passenger compartment in them, and drive them by poking their brains make them seem more bio-vehicle than mount to me.

>>53147485
Yes, but in bio-tech they usually mean more in terms of surgically modifying by attaching things. Especially if you use the rules that let you stitch on body parts across species.

Just cutting open a shell isn't really that much different from trimming a horse's hoof so you can slap a horseshoe on.

The fact that you ride on a silt-strider and don't strap yourself in to some sort of interface says more mount than bio-vehicle to me.

But if your mind was already made up, why'd you come here asking for feedback?

>>53147485
If your strider wanders off if you stop controlling it, as it's an independent and intelligent creature, then Mount is used to control it

If the thing is unmotivated unless directly controlled, not doing anything to defend itself if attached, and would die without care, then it's a vehicle controlled by Pilot or Driver.

>>53147251
Thanks for the advice, that's about what I was thinking of going with beforehand, so I'm glad to know I was on the right track.
Is it worthwhile to invest in any non-social skills, or should I not spread myself out like that?

>>53148551
>Is it worthwhile to invest in any non-social skills, or should I not spread myself out like that?
In a one shot? Go ahead and be a one trick pony. Half the fun in those is the throwaway nature of it all

In a full game? Lord knows you need to be versatile

>>53148551
If you do choose to spread out, keep two things in mind: (A) what you can take that will supplement your main focus, and (B) what you already overlap with. For example, a negotiator can probably get a lot of use out of Body Language, and if you've already picked up Voice for the bonus to influence rolls, might as well put some points into Singing because you're already getting a bonus to it.

>>53150052
Would it be worthwhile to take anything combat oriented, or should I just not bother at all with those skills?

>>53150094
Combat is a huge portion of any session, so no. It's one thing to say "my mercenary waits for two hours during negotiations" because IRL that's only a few rolls and less than ten minutes of roleplaying; having to sit out every combat is going to get boring FAST.

Grab a carbine and get behind some cover; you'll never be a sniper or a gunslinger, but you'll be able to contribute by taking aimed shots from a relatively safe location.

>>53150094
Get a beam weapon if it's available. Their accuracy quickly compensates for low skill levels.

>>53148551
It's not super important if it's a oneshot, but generally I'd advise getting a fairly broad section of skills. I prefer to be good at a small subset, and then just kinda okay at a lot of things, as opposed to a more narrow approach, but that's just personal preference.

Generally speaking you probably want to avoid getting into situations where you're just dead meat, so it might be wise to get some combat stuff (even if it's just for self defence), and some basic science/technical stuff. But again, it's not super important for a oneshot.

>>53150094
That depends on how important you think combat is going to be. But it's a oneshot, so there's probably going to be some.
Generally, it's better to put a few too many points into combat skills rather than a few too few. Combat takes time, and you want to actually do something during that time, even if you're not the most dangerous guy in the party.
First Aid is also nice to pick up.

>>53150881
>>53150373
>>53150052
Think I've got it figured out now. Thanks anons.

>>53133392
>No Combat Reflexes

Shit character, hope you like mental stun.

>>53133007
Cyberpunk
Horror
Egypt

I think I'm actually gonna run this

>>53153571
I think you even created thread about cyperpunk Egypt a couple weeks ago before you even knew you are going run it!

>>53148541
I mean, one of the biogadgets suggested in the bio-tech book is just a pet squid that's been modified to have four tentacles that it attaches itself to it's owner with like a backpack and smart enough to fuction as hydrojet propulsion for it's owner and respond to the natural swimming muscle movements to know how it should respond.

It also depends on how the silt strider is controlled, if you just like poked it and guided it like a horse it would be more like a mount, but if it was like an actual acupuncture based control system to the nervous system that lets you directly guide it, it would be more like a vehicle.

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r8 my village sage's apprentice

>>53154145
Personally, I'd change Gluttony and Gullibility into their equivalent quirks. Also maybe lower HP by 1 point.

Other than that, looks good.

>>53154145
That's a pretty strong 12 year old girl

>>53154145
Strength needs to be lowered to like 6 or so

>>53154207
Was thinking about it already, at least for Gluttony.

>>53154551
>>53154605
Peasant stronk!

>>53154551
>A 10-year-old has 80% of his adult ST, 90% of his adult DX and IQ, and SM -1. A 15-year-old has adult scores.

>>53155099
So do you stat your character as if they would be an adult and then reduce their stats due to age?

>>53155163
Yep. Basic Se, p.20

What was the first campaign you played GURPS in?

>>53155216
Reign of Steel in Denver Zone

Since the GM told us to "be imaginative" and only provided the RoS book, only few games in I've learned we are not playing rules of Reign of Steel, but it's just a setting from some bigger game starting with G. And that you can use the same rules to play whatever the hell you want to play.
So I did.
Still miss that game thou. It was in times when I was still unable to maka an optimal build on a fly

>>53155216
Homebrew setting, with After the End.
A French magical post apocalypse, out of all things, that has been going on since August. Got some nice help here for my first character.
It's still ongoing, but we're about to wrap everything up.

It's been an experience, and I'm generally fond of the system. My decision to play a regular, non-magical character means that there's a good deal of stuff about GURPS I'm still not really familiar with, but I feel like I've gotten enough of a foundation to learn the rest quickly.

Highlights of the campaign include accidentally blowing up a mountain, hijacking and accidentally flooding a pocket dimension in blood, assassinating a Illuminati mage with grenades, deposing an insane cult leader in favour of a more insane cult leader (and then replacing her with the son of the first leader), and stuff like that. It's been pretty fun overall.

>>53155216
Mercenaries in Africa. It was pretty solid shit.

>>53154605
>12 year old
>TL3 peasant
>ST 6
So she has muscle atrophy or something? Due to the wobbly rules for teens, I guess it should be 9 by default, like this anon >>53155099 points out from BS

Is there any easy-to-access list of skills affected by High Manual Dexterity?

>>53156100
>easy-to-access list
>GURPS
Choose one

>>53156100
Have you tried reading High Manual Dexterity's entry?

>>53156100
>>53156198
Not easy to access, but after reading through what CGL has done to the Shadowrun 5 books...
I am ever so grateful that GURPS is at least well-indexed.

>>53152757
Oh shit senpai I'll just take a 15 point disadvantage and get that shit right up.

>>53152757
Is Combat Reflexes basically required for all characters?

>>53156765
Not required, but you should get it if expect to be in a fight.

>>53156765
In combat heavy games it would be silly to not take it. Which makes me wonder why the heck Action doesn't even give this option to some templates. It was made so cheap for what it does to be affordable even for low-point fighters.
If game isn't focused on combat and you have someone to cover your civilian ass, you will be okay without it.

>>53156924
Speaking of "combat heavy"...

How the hell are you supposed to run a military campaign? I've been reading the 3e World War II series (mostly for Weird War's sake), but I don't get how you'd actually make a campaign with any sort of player choices.

>>53157133
Flowchart or forks depending on whether they achieve the strategic objective of the battle.

Of course, how well they do tactically will impact how much equipment and manpower they have going forward.

Are Allies that are always present controlled by the GM or the player?

>>53157578
They are NPCs, thus controlled by GM. There are some exceptions where it might be reasonable to give player full control over ally: you have direct control over them, i.e. drone in manual mode; you have some sort of supernatural bond and can coordinate your actions perfectly, like ranger's animal companion.
Otherwise you just give them commands and hope for the best.

>>53157726
I see.

What about creatures that are compelled to obey the player, like minions with slave mentality or thralls?

>>53157804
Well, character has to rely on their dumb brains to perform command right. So it depends if you trust your player to not abuse this and play minion accordingly to their capabilities.

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>>53157133
>>53157133
Each mission should present the group with a goal and options to achieve it. Give them a lot of tools and let them go to town.

For example..

You are Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol, ordered to move deep into the jungles of South Vietnam where the NVA has established a heavily fortified and camouflaged base. Your primary objective is to kill or capture the NVA Major in command of the base and to determine the status of and if possible extract American pilots being held.

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GURPS is for lewd

>>53159570
There aren't enough legs in that picture.

>>53157846
Well, I see, thanks.
>trust your player
I'm gonna have to work on that one.

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>>53159570
GURPS needs more traits
MORE

>>53157133
OSS/SOE shenanigans Speaking of, the newest Forgotten Weapons has Ian looking at a silenced M3 SMG,and there's an older one on the Welrod or "Alright men, command has ordered us to take/hold this position at all costs." and then just follow on as events evolve. If you were feeling really cheesy, you could even go with something like "Blown off-course during a parachute raid gone bad, Handwash McTavish and his squad are trapped behind enemy lines and must not only complete their original mission but also return to their own lines alive in... A Clean Getaway."

>>53156765
Of course not. Combat Reflexes is mandatory for only one type of character - badass fighters that are aware of their plot armor. Best example would be Blood Diamond.
Salomon is by no means easily scared, weak or incompetent. He can fend for his own most of the time. It just that he's a fisherman, so there is a lot of situation where he freezes, is not fast enough or just gets roughted up by people with absolutely zero regard for his or human life in general. He is STILL competent on his own, but just human enough to not feel like invincible hero.
On the other hand is Danny, who's first, second and last job is being a mercenary. He's been in so many fights over half of Africa for most of his life that he couldn't care less about being in yet another firefight with yet another badly trained militia exorting locals - he literally fights with those for a living. They don't scare him, they don't impress him with the fact they have guns and he knows he's better trained and faster than them.
Cue the famous bridge scene, which nicely sums this all up (No, no spoilers, this is literally a random bit from the movie, no revelance to the main plot whatsoever, but it you never saw it - go fucking do it. Even if the original shock of "Wait a minute, DiCaprio plays a tough merc?!" no longer works):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5rSlG2GySU

So picking Combat Reflexes is about intentionally playing a Danny. You can be a fighter without it quite easily, but it's a mark of "professionalism", for lack of better term

>>53157133
Just like military assignments, duh.

Assuming you are running it with a "normal" party (so from 3 to 5 people) you are either recon patrol and/or crew of a vehicle. You are given task from the HQ or CO to go to point A and do things k, n and m, preferably going back after that. Player party is by default too small to be anything else than a squad (in a literal sense), or even a fire-team. Unless the group is big enough or you want to carry NPCs, you are going to play it small and play it low.
OR you can make your party be part (no pun intended) of some bigger operations, like being part of a platoon (daily reminder that means roughtly 25-30 guys) or even company (about 100 soldiers) doing a bigger assignment and them being just a part of that assignment. You know, like your half-decent war vidya - you are a single soldier in the entire attack/defense and while you are crucial, things can go on on their own without you.

Running a military game is also good for "soft" railroading, because they need to follow orders

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How many people have played a game where they had Dependent: My kid / my kid brother / sister?

>>53160404
Not once, I know my GM too well.

>>53160427
Shit man, my GM is trying to give me dependents. Orphans and street kids keep dropping on me out of the woodwork.

>>53160558
Well, either you GM wants a heartwarming story of a gruff adventurer caring for a child, or he wants some cheap drama when he takes hostage or kills that child.

You should know your GM well enough to tell which one it is.

>>53160710
I should. The problem is they's taking pointers from unspecified people online whom I do not know. I just keep shuffling the kids off to orphanages or foster homes for now.

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>>53160404
Why would I pick one of the worst imaginable disads? Dependants by default don't mesh well with high adventure or just adventuring at all. And given most of our games are about mercs doing mercenary things, I hardly see a point of pulling some cheesy shit straight from Commando

>>53160903
Because it's so fun to breastfeed your kid while killing dudes and having the baby grow up to be like 800 characters points by the time he's 8 years old

>>53160885
Judging from the fact that he keeps doing it even after you've refused a couple of times, I'd say that any dependent you take on will have its days counted.

Nothing good ever came out of GMs being persistent about things like these.

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>>53160917
I guess we have different definitions of fun, but yeah, reading Una was fun.
Playing as such character - much less so. Especially with GURPS lethality being involved.

>>53160903
>Dependants by default don't mesh well with high adventure or just adventuring at all
Feeding your kid brother at the campfire and having him hide behind your fine ass in fights is great what are you talking about

>>53160935
I'll keep that in mind and stop pushing them off. We'll see what happens.

>>53160950
>Having a dead weight that you need to constantly protect, can easily get killed and in the first place is dragged head-on into danger is good
Not him, but that's one of the shittiest thing to happen in ANY kind of story. Escorting kids to safety - sure, can work. Intentionally dragging them toward danger? Are you fucking insane?!

>>53161047
He's your baby brother
Also your future boytoy

>>53161059
>>>/d/

>>53161077
>incest and /ss/ is /d/
What the fuck happened to /tg/?

>>53160953
Sure, just don't get too attached.

>>53161081
>Fucking over non-existing entities that are created solely for the purpose of incest and pedophilia is not /d/
Just slap a horse-cock on him and it it will be fine

>>53161081
It's simple - it became /tg/. It's no longer bunch of cunts from /b/ talking about tabletops, but a board on its own. And thus degeneracy is no longer treated as "funny" or "acceptable".

>>53161131
It isn't tho.

>>53161181
So it became serious business with no fun allowed, like /pol/?

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>>53161219
>there is only one kind of fun and if you don't support it you're nofun
Oh.

>>53161245
I mean, that's what you just did to me.

>>53133007
>black ops
>powers
>horror
cool

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>>53161219
>If you don't find incest fun, there is something wrong with you
>Same if you don't like to drag along pointless NPCs

>>53161359
That's not what I said? It isn't /d/ material though, it's incredibly tame.

>>53161363
>So it became serious business with no fun allowed, like /pol/?
>It's not what I said
Have you tried getting outside? Or better - finally getting laid?

>>53161363
Yes, it is /d/ material. It doesn't matter how relatively tame it is compared to you other depravities.

>>53161451
Well, in that you think incest is /d/ material and basically called me a cunt from /b/ for having badwrongfun? Yeah, you were talking it seriously.

>>53161463
It...actually isn't, it'd be /h/ material. /d/ is for stuff that can't be given the vanilla tag on porn sites. content:incest and content:vanilla aren't mutually exclusive in the way tentacles or futa is.

>>53161517
Incest ain't vanilla dude. It can masquerade as it if you aren't explicitly told the people aren't related and no one is clearly underage.
Incest is taboo, therefore:
>>>/d/

>>53161559
Yeah that's not how it works, you can post incest on /h/ just fine, and considering how vanilla the sex tends to be, you might not even be allowed to do so on /d/.

>>53161517
>>53161566
Nice bait mothefucker, please keep your downs kid in /b/.

>>53161517
Could you kindly get the fuck out already? It's like that infamous situation from September last year, when a pedo was seriously writing in a Twilight 2000 (!!!) thread why pedophilia is ok and there is nothing wrong with it.
I don't give a fuck about your sexuality. It also has no place in GURPS general. So fuck off already.

And /d/ is a containment board for cunts like you. Don't like it? Well I don't like your crap in this thread and yet you are here anyway.

>>53161573
No, and I'm not defending real life pedophilia anyway so...what are you even sperging over? Like I can barely understand why you're so mad. You accused me of pulling the badwrongfun card but I didn't.

>>53161571
Not an argument.

>>53161566
>>53161559
>>53161517
>>53161451
>>53161573

Can we at least agree incest clearly isn't /tg/ unless you're doing a Yuropoor politics/diplomacy campaign?

>>53161588
Please leave or get back on topic.

>>53161590
I'd honestly say playing a siscon / brocon or having one as a sibling isn't that creative, I've seen it happen a LOT in games and greentexts. Like it's probably not normal in-world but that's usually part of the appeal anyway.
not in this autism btw, I just got back and what's even happening

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I like how we're fastest only when people are shitting on other people
why can't we talk about the game instead

>>53161612
Someone brought up brotherfucking and was told to take it to /d/ and sperged out instead of going to the appropriate board. Whether it's /d/ or /h/ doesn't really matter.
>>53161647
Autism.

>>53161647
Complaining without giving anything to discuss isn't going to help, you know.

>>53161666
Can't you choose to not sperg instead though, it takes two to sperg.
>>53161676
How about we post character sheets or something, I guess?

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Did anyone of you play a game from perspective of typical monsters instead of heroes?
Specifically I am thinking about how monsters in Greece mythology could be just force of nature, while so-called heroes are hired by the Olympic gods just hunt and kill them for no reason. So players would try to find hospitable land while hiding/defending from soldiers of pro-olympic cities and merciless heroes.

>>53161588
>switch tabs
>read through all this thinking 'wow i don't remember clicking on this, what thread is this?'
>oh wait
>it's offtopic shitposting
no seriously what the fuck does any of this have to do with gurps?

fuck
whatever niggers, tell me your favourite weapon and why
maybe your favourite weapon mods or shield too.

personally i'm a fan of the maul, if only because of the ridiculous numbers you can get with it using weapon master and a pick.
same reason i enjoy the idea of using the steyr-solothurn s18-1000 in HT

they aren't practical, but it gives me a warm fizzy feeling inside to see somwhere in the realms of ~7d6 imp on a melee weapon

>>53161757
That's not entirely how they work, since stuff like the Medusa Gorgon were explicitly cursed to be monstrous and evulz. I've played plenty of games as stuff like wraiths or demons / daemons / devils and stuff though, and yeah adventurers are just assholes for no reason. I'm not killing the peasants, I'm liberating them.

>>53161701
You first, baby.

Forever DM/D&D player

>>53161788
Well, Medusa is the prime example of gods being jerks. They cursed her in the first place, then she was living in the middle of nowhere while random faggots keep coming to her home for no reason, then some prime faggot decided to kill her and gods provided him bunch of equipment (and yet they were too afraid to make their hands dirty).
Even in version where Gorgons were fuckugly from the beginning, Medusa weren't the one that caused most troubles. No one tried to restrain her immortal sisters who were fucking psychos, nope. Better just kill that one mortal gorgon because we can.

>>53161773
Low tech? Longspear. What's that, you want stupid range AND a free hand for a shield? Presenting rules from Gladiators and AP heads from LTC2 make it even better.

Ultra tech? Anything that lets be deliver a payload: payload rifle, grenade launcher, anti-may rifle, limpet sleeve, etc. there are so many fun, funky warheads available in UT that it's a sin to not capitalize on the variety by playing a utility gunner. Adding Dial-a-Round from Gun-Fu gives you even more options.

>>53161867
Her sisters were minor gods.

>>53160404
I have an adopted daughter in my campaign; she's the daughter of a friend who died in an embassy bombing.
My character is a diplomat/governor so I don't get in too many dangerous situations, but I think either the secret appearance rolls have been good, or my gm is afraid of living up to the "all GMs use dependants for woodchipper plot fodder" meme, because in almost a two digit session count, she has been involved twice.

>>53161773
TL0-2 has longspear and shield combo; you just can't go wrong with those
TL3 wins with crossbows; just any type of crossbow will do
TL4 it is the pistol with the shortest reload time; and since you can carry few of those, it's even better
TL5-6 it's dynamite for massed enemies and double-barreled shotguns when you can't just blow the fuck out of them
TL7+ it's anything with auto-fire and low bulk; SMGs curb just about any other weapon

>>53161867
Medusa myth is a prime example of bronze age mentality. Not just Greek, but in general. Think about it for a while
- woman get punished for a god raping her
- she is somehow the "bad" one, while forcibly taken
- ends up with horrible curse put on her by a godess (female!) for the fact she "desacrated" the temple, even if she was fucking raped there
- the god responsible for this shit doesn't even get a stern look from the godess, because he's god and male
- Medusa moves away to not cause any trouble to anyone due to her retarded curse
- a "hero" shows up and to prove himself kills absolutely harmless woman that lives in solitarity precisely because she's dangerous to other people
- everyone celebrates the guy slaying the monster, despite the monster was harmless and far away
- he even gets fuckload of gods helping him to do this shit, because, hey, what's more brave and honorable than beheading an ostracised rape victim living like a hermit to prove you are the man

Values change.
A lot.

>>53133392
I don't understand this. Can someone explain the joke?

>>53133392
>If you min-max character to absurd extreme, you will get extremely min-maxed character
Wow, what a revelation! I wasn't expecting anything this complex!

>>53162566
Fuck, wrong link, should go for >>53162527

>>53162433
No, it's not about Medusa being in the wrong for being a woman, it's about Medusa having really shit luck. Gods are never in the wrong in Greek mythology, and the funny thing is, she DID desecrae the temple. It doesn't matter if you had no control over it, because the rules don't say "you need to have consensual sex to do it", the rules are "you're a virgin priestess" (or priest), you can't have sex ever and especially not in the temple
Medusa doesn't move away and she does cause harm to people, even if inadvertently, and she is a monster now, not a 'woman'.
Stop projecting your social commentary on ancient myths.

>>53162582
Oh, I get it. The joke is the poster, their entire philosophy and their way of life.

Aww, I was hoping for something fun.

>>53133148
that sounds lit

>>53133670
if you have literally ever played GURPS or HERO, you would know that any DM with an iota of sense requires that they check over your character sheets first.

if you pull shit like this, you're a cunt* and your DM is a fool*

*unless min/max is the express purpose of the game.

>>53162762
>Stop projecting while I'm projecting
Not even him, but that myth even back in Greek times went through serious reworking, because even then it was considered trippy by the times they've hit Classical period, so Medusa went through more and more dehumanisation with each retelling and itteration, until the whole "why the fuck we should celebrate Perseus" bit finally stopped being an issue.
The first few versions were pretty explicit about Perseus being a dick (for which he was eventually punished too). By the end of it, it wasn't even about Medusa being punished for doing something wrong, but always being monster, thus making it ok to kill her, without anyone feeling bad for anything.
Besides, it's still about dehumanisation. It would be wrong to behead a woman, but it's fine and dandy if she looks hideous and has snakes for hair. Then just skip the part when she ever was anything else than a monster and nobody feels bad anymore. You yourself proved that point with the stupid "monster now, not a woman".

And pass all the points, Greek mythology, even for their times, was a steaming pile of sexism. Not in a sense of misogyny and especially not in modern meaning of that term, but because just about EVERY myth that somehow involves woman either started or ended up in a version when everything that went wrong is the fault of a woman. And god forbid if said woman or women are unmarried, not to mention making decisions on their own. The only exception would be Penelope, but she instead is the epitome of idealised Greek wife - loyal to absurdity and important solely because of the wealth of her missing husband attatched to her.
It even extends pass the myths. Just read pretty much any Greek historian that isn't Thucydides (who is coincidently the only real Greek historian in a scholarly sense).

tl;dr - Greeks were shit. Racist and sexist as fuck, even for their own period.

>>53163020
No, she literally wasn't a human anymore in the monsterized versions. Monsters in greek mythology weren't just ugly humans and medusa wasn't cursed to merely be so ugly as to turn you to stone. She was legit just bad shit, like the /tg/ analogue I can give is that her alignment changed to Always Neutral Evil. She's bad. Why? Becaue the gods say so.

>sexism etc.
But you're still projecting MODERN ISSUES onto ancient myths. Who the fuck cares? If you can't seperate the myth from currently trending political topics you really need to take a break.

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>>53163060

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>>53163060
>Entire ancient world looking at Greeks like freaks with really weird sexuality and even weirder us-them mentality
>HURRR STOP PROJECTING MODERN ISSUES DURRR
Have you ever read anything written about Greeks between 7 and 4 century BC? Not by Greeks themselves, but outside sources about them?

But let me guess - that's just all modern reinterpretation of antique sources and thus it's all SJW conspiracy

>>53138158
>fantasy
>wizards
>magic
rrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEE-

>>53163110
Yes, I have and most of them hated the greeks for plenty of reasons because they were basically subhuman snobs stuck up on their own "civilization", but literally why is it relevant that they are sexist? Like who the fuck cares?

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>>53163127
>Why it's revelant to the text about myth that is entirely based on dehumanisation of a rape victim what I don't understand the process of dehumanisation
>Why it's revelant I can't grasp basic logic of the fact the myth is trying to rationalise rape and murder by saying "lol, doesn't count, wasn't even human"
Who cares? You, for example, since you keep posting progressively more REEEEE'd posts, triggered, because someone mentioned the myth being shit-tier sexism. Because the Greeks were good, right? That's why they've considered non-Greeks (and that means anyone who wasn't adult, male and Greek) a subhuman. Surely, it was the other cultures who were snobs, right'o?

>>53163202
Except it isn't about rape. I'm not [r9k] if that's what you're trying to accuse me of, and I just said in that very post that they were subhuman snobs. The thing is, in Greek mythology (and many others), gods were asshats but they were always right. Hell part of the myth is that Athena CAN'T TAKE REVENGE on Poseiden because the little shitter is strong as fuck, it's like Hera taking her anger out on the bastards. She would like to slap Zeus but she can't.

>>53161884
>>53162349

Okay, I'm getting two vibes here.
At TL 7+ payload rifles and grenade launchers are good for range and utility, but SMGs are good for damage?

And here I was working on an abomination of a 10 gauge autoshotgun with electrothermal chemical boosts to get 3d nx24 flechettes.

>>53163202
Well to be fair, the modern SJW is just as snobby and dehumanizing as any ancient Grecian. You're comparing two different piles of shit so it's really not going to go anywhere productive, no matter how many smug animoos you toss out.

>>53163292
>in Greek mythology (and many others), gods were asshats but they were always right
Not even part of the discussion, but not THAT is a modern reinterpretation. Not only Greek mythology was THE only one to have asshats gods (we are talking about real asshats here, not just some random fuck-up done once or being god of evil and shit), but the Greeks praying to them literally out of fear of being butt-fucked harder if they would stop. We are talking about Nahuatl-tier fear of really awful gods under a thin veneer of them being human-like and thus "likeable"

>>53163328
"Good for damage" is relative; the SMG's light bulk and good RoF makes it a good choice for most human-to-human combat at most game ranges despite it lacking WTF-levels of damage per hit, but against heavily armored targets or monsters, an autoshotgun loaded with either flechettes or (explosive?) slugs would be better.

>>53161773
I like rapier. Specifically dual-wielding rapiers, not necessary of the same size.
In modern setting:
Semi-auto pistol with biggest damage as long as it stays at bulk -3
Compact PDW for when I want full-auto in pistol size
Short carbine with collapsible stock to switch between precise fire and run-n-gun spraying. Also because it weights less than full-size rifle.
The biggest fucking sniper rifle I can afford for when I can take my time and don't need to go anywhere.

Regardless of TL I tend to buy a lot of different weapons just in case.

>>53163328
As long as you are not facing armored vehicles (and those require pretty specific weapons to deal with anyway), SMG is literally your best bet when it comes to finding the perfect middle ground of all 7+ weapons: auto fire, large mag, suppression, absurd damage in case of being hit, light, low bulk etc.
Unless you roll in with some TL9+ sci-fi bullshit, as far as the rules are concerned, SMGs are jack-of-all stats and without any real drawbacks, unless you are facing tanks and similar. But that's a situation where having an assault rifle is just as useless

>>53163446
>the only one to have asshat gods
Well, first off Wodan was reasonable enough but he wasn't very nice and managed to be a huge git multiple times. Second of all, you have stuff like Izanami, Eresh, Ishtar (only a couple times, too many contradictory myths I guess), etc. etc.

>modern interpretation
It isn't, gods and goddesses didn't get questioned. Most of the time it was because they were really fucking strong (see Athena and Arachne where stories generally have her beating Athena fair and square), but they were always right. It's like a petulant child but he has a submachinegun against your skull and he knows how to fire it, and back then they really were right for it, because they were gods, not people, people were ants to them and that's just too bad.

>>53163474

Ah, that's a relief. Considering the campaign is heading out beyond human space, human opponents are probably few and far between. Back to work on the autoshottie.

>>53163510
>gods and goddesses didn't get questioned
>Entire Greek mythology running on saying "Gods are just petty humans with superpowers that will fuck you up if you step up"
Are you at least semi-aware how UNIQUE this stance is? Or are too used to it/unfamiliar with other ancient religions to figure out this shit is not only rare, but pretty special?

>>53163544
I mean
Gods being petty isn't that unique. That's the thing. Most of them didn't fry humans for their pettiness but you have shit like Chinese gods getting into fights over shit like how much sauce goes on steamed buns or Amaterasu's famous hissyfits in response to Susano'o and Tsukuyomi's sperging.
Also, gods weren't just humans, they were metaphysically a bigger deal than just powerful dudes with 1000 character points.

>>53163510
>Second of all, you have stuff like Izanami, Eresh, Ishtar
... who can't be compared with just about any Greek god in any fucking way, because they operate on completely different patterns and their respective religions running on completely different set of rules AND morality.
But nice knowing you have absolutely no idea the fuck you are even talking about

No, seriously, the fuck Izanami and Ereshkigal even has to do with Greek gods?! Because I can get the whole "Ishtar is Hera/Venus" (but that's where the parallel ends, really)

>>53163600
I mean you're talking about asshat gods, but if I'm not allowed to bring in gods from other cultures then what am I allowed to bring in? More greeks?

>>53163597
>Gods being petty isn't that unique
It is. Unless the religion having those gods doesn't come from late bronze age (right before the collapse/from the collapse), you won't experience dickish gods. If so, they can be easily traced back to bronze collapse source. "Trickster" deities don't count, since one dickish god =/= entire pantheon of dicks
>Chinese gods getting into fights over shit like how much sauce goes on steamed buns
Didn't involve smithing humans, but literal bitch-fight between the gods. Not to mention the myth is from fucking 6th century AD as a fucking allegory of two countries waging a shit-tier war over meaningless stuff.
>Amaterasu's famous hissyfits
Yes, your brother constantly fucking up heavenly affairs just to piss you off is such a minor inconvinience, totally not endangering the entire world order. It's like you've missed the point of the myth, which is "respect the fucking authority"

>>53163729
*BC

>>53163729
>Yes, your brother constantly fucking up heavenly affairs just to piss you off is such a minor inconvinience, totally not endangering the entire world order. It's like you've missed the point of the myth, which is "respect the fucking authority"
I mean I don't know if locking yourself in a fucking cave for an unspecified length of time until your brother basically throws a party and a goddess does a striptease on a basket or something counts as 'authority' but yes, I did get that part of the myth.

>>53162566
The point is that the game is fucking broken for allowing that.

>>53162987
What reason does the DM have to disallow this character? It's 100% within the rules and isn't violating any TL expectations for the campaign. It's not like I took a super-powers advantage, or equipped myself with an AK-47 in a medieval campaign. I am well within my rights to do this.

>>53163820

Yeah, but that level of expertise with a gun is 'trained with a master for hundreds of years' good, or cybernetic enhancement requiring. You're within your 'rights', but you still don't guarantee you're fitting in the campaign or its power level.

Also, your lack of swimming is gonna get you killed legitimately.

>>53163820
>a game's rules don't handhold character creation
>this is a bad thing and needs to be stopped because I have no self-control

gb2 4e D&D m8

>>53163889
he's the avatar of the god of guns or something probably

>>53163777
I hope you are just intentionally mixing things up now and aren't genuine.
The myth comes from the times when Japanese were influenced by confucianism for the first time, ever. One of the basic tennants of the entire confucian system is authority to elders and higher rank (Amaterasu being older AND the ruler). The other is going into seclusion when things go to shit, which is precisely what Amaterasu does - she hides in a cave, when her brother crosses the line. Then there is the part about Susano basically representing barbaric conduct - trashing fields, not paying respect to authority, acting like a shithead and what not. And then we have the barrel tap-dance, which is part of contemporary Japanese culture. In short - the myth makes 100% sense within own socio-cultural context.

It's like you not only didn't read the myth but just some shortened summary, but also don't grasp the context of it, the source of it or what message it has to convey.
And then you are complaining about people projecting modern standards on Greeks. Oh the irony.

>>53163913
must be

Neither Jerry Miculek or Carlos Hathcock were over a 25 guns skill.

>>53163820
Allowing by making you one-trick pony that wasted all his points on single skill and is utterly helpless in any other situation than gunfight and comes with sub-par stats for save throws.
Truly, what a stupid game design that allows players to set themselves up for GM to fuck them up royally.

>>53163820
If your GM allowed to make a character with 80 in single skill in 100 point game, it means that not only you are retarded, but so is your GM.

But sure, that's all GURPS fault

>>53163934
But I read the original version in nip you dumbass
First of all that myth already violates a huge thing in confucianism, which is the sister being over the brother. The sister doesn't get authority over her brother even if she is older. She demands respect as if she were in a commanding position but she is not unless there are no brothers or fathers around.
Second off, going into seclusion when things go to shit is...not how confucianism works, going into seclusion is more a matter of not getting fucking killed by rebels or servants.
Third off, Susano'o is a huge tard, but going into seclusion and being lured out by [herself] does not reflect highly. The myth makes tons of sense, but amaterasu o mikami does not come off well in that myth, even within context.

>>53163820
That not only violates RAW for a realistic game, but it also violates the intent of the rules, the guidlines provided for skills, and the point of GURPS. It's a toolbox system for a DM to make any game with. The player never has the right to tell the the DM that he cannot disallow something because RAW doesn't explicitly ban it.

Read the first few pages of basic set before you troll, GURPS has rule 0.

>>53163913
>>53163945

Oooh, he's Chosen of the /k/ube. Gotcha.

Didn't realize it was a supernatural or religious campaign.

>>53164034
>Second off, going into seclusion when things go to shit is...not how confucianism works
I was going to argue with you, but then you sprouted this bullshit...
Let me guess, you also read the Analects in original, early Han Chinese version, right?

Go fuck yourself. And seriously, stop projecting, because it's not even ironic at this point. It's just retarded.

>>53164116
Yes, actually, considering it's required reading in middle school in China and they used to give extra credit on tests baed on memorizing them. Did you read them in the early Han versions? I'd continue arguing but it's late in Japan.

>go to tabletop club every Tuesday night for 3 hours
>spend every other day wishing I could be playing more

reeee it's not enough, online isn't the same but I suppose I'll have to look into it.

>>53164116
The Chinese that the Analects are written in are not difficult to understand to anyone who's so much as begun to learn early Chinese, so that's not really something impressive.

>>53164034
>Myth meshing together local customs and believes with imported stuff
>REEEEEE why it's not 100% like in the imported version
Gee, I wonder why every single country that adopted Confucianism had own local version of it. How did could happen?

>>53164326
Aside the signs not even looking remotely close to modern Chinese. And I'm not talking here about simplified commie bullshit, but the simple fact it's written in different characters, making most of it unreadable, unless you have pretty specific linguistic education behind the belt.
Given most people are taught simplified modern Chinese characters... yeah, here goes your claim.

And I swear, if captcha will once again put picture of doughnut with pink frosting and qualify it as a sandwich, I will throw some serious fit.

>>53162349
>>53163328
>>53163474

An assault rifle beats an SMG in almost every way.
Better damage and same Rcl, unless you have an assault rifle with Controlled High Cyclic Rate, in which case it puts out more bullets on target than an SMG.
Better Acc and range.
Similar RoF and magazine size, unless you take into account the numerous assault rifles that can take 100+ round magazines.
Similar Bulk, generally assault rifles have 1 higher. If that's a deal-breaker you can always cut down the barrel and still win damage-wise and range-wise

Assault rifles are marginally heavier (1-3 lbs) on their own, and ammo is a bit heavier, but seeing as you'll most likely want to carry pre-loaded magazines that's at most 1 extra lbs for 5 magazines.

Unsurprisingly, the only weapons that GURPS classify as "SMG"s that come close to assault rifles in performance are a few modern PDWs designed from the ground up to be modern replacements for outdated SMGs.

>>53164564
>An assault rifle beats an SMG in almost every way.
>Weights more
>Bigger Bulk
>Higher price
Not to mention you've entirely ignored the point about TL7, but sure, keep going. Then equip a character for a mission that only can take 20 pounds while picking an assault rifle and tell me how good they are.

>>53164656
>20lbs

Does that include armor?

>>53164564
>Range ever mattering in RPGs
Most fights occur at close range, and 99% of fights in RPGs occur at very close range if only because we have finite table space.

You're other points have merit, even if we disagree about their degree of impact; I will argue, however, that range is essentially irrelevant.

>>53164656
>Weights more
Not really significantly. Especially not at TL7
Take for example Colt M16A1, Weight: 7.2/0.7 for 20 rounds
It's actually lighter than most SMGs, even the ubiquitous MP5A3 comes in at 7.5/1.2 for 30 rounds.

>Bigger Bulk
Tactical Shooting is your friend.
Bullpup conversion, costs 25% of weapon cost, which improves Bulk by 1, has no impact on performance, but adds 1 lbs.
And/or just cut down the barrel. You lose some damage and accuracy, but still beat an SMG, while also saving some weight and improving Bulk by 1 step.
Either way, -3 is max Bulk for a long arm, so you get the same as an SMG.

>Higher price
The M16 I took as an example only costs $550, actually one third the cost of an MP5. There are of course other viable choices like AKS-47U which are of both cheaper and lighter.
You'll need to go for something like Mac-10 if you want your SMG to be cheaper, but either way we're looking at AT MOST a few hundred dollars either way. No fucking way is cost ever going to be such a factor I'm picking a poorer weapon and risking my life for what amounts to $200.

>Then equip a character for a mission that only can take 20 pounds
What does this equipment include? I feel confident I can shave off 1-3 lbs and get a weapon that's not only more effective or as effective in close combat, it's also capable of defeating body armor, unarmored vehicles, and perform well at ranges longer than 150 yards.

There's a reason assault rifles became such a massive global success after WW2.

>>53163820
>It's 100% within the rules
Skill investments should cap at stat+5 , or roughly 20~28 points

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I want to run a short campaign to get my group accustomed to how GURPS works. What splats should I grab to run a game of Vietnam era US forces fighting against orcs, goblins, trolls and ogres in a jungle environment?
Also recommended power level and a catchy names for the soldiers to use for the greenskins?

>>53165639
Short campaing to accustom your group? Core, High Tech for gearporn, and maybe some of the Powerups for perks. Keep it simple for the first game, yeah?

100-125 with -25 points of disadvantages. You really don't wanna go much higher than -25 points of disadvantages. Gives 150 points to work with and that's enough to make a solid soldier.

Far as names go, greenskins is already good, maybe tuskers or trogs.

>>53161773
Reverse grip high-quality dagger, with weapon adaptation to karate. A fairly cheap and surprisingly competent cinematic knife-fighter build.
Main gauche (for example) is Thr Imp
+1 for reverse grip (note that this also improves deceptive attacks)
+2 for Very Fine ($1000 is a bit expensive, might want to just go for Fine if you're short on cash. Main Gauche is a fencing weapon so this is legal)
+2 for having Karate at DX+2.
Sure, you're not going to go toe-to-toe with an axe-wielding barbarian or what have you, but Thr+5 Imp without weapon master is nothing to scoff at, and you're still a "karate master" or whatever you were before you invested $1000 and a 1 point perk, should you lack access to your weapon, meaning you can take out the barbarian in a bar brawl at least.

Any tricks for a feeble (9 ST) mage to get some defenses for little weight and not too much money in Banestorm/Yrth (default magic).

I figure a vest with Fortify I would give me DR1 vs. 5 attacks for $75 and no real weight.

Any other suggestions?

>>53165904
Some mystery filter caught me and prevented me from posting everything in one go. No idea what that's about. Maybe too many numbers, dollar signs, plus signs and capital letters in the middle of sentences made me look like a spambot?

Spears, good ol' spears.
Good thrusting damage, highly versatile, can also be reverse-gripped and thrown.
Combine with a shield, or why not another spear? Long spear + short spear is a solid combo and only requires investment in one weapon skill. Lets you cover every range from C to 3 and inflict Thr +2 (or +3, if reverse gripping) for $100 total. No other weapon category comes even close.

Estoc (because I like 'em). Focusing on getting in, defensive gripping it and targeting chinks (with the technique for it). It's a good, interesting and historically accurate use of the weapon.
The added benefit is that it's a functional sword in regular combat against lighter armored opponents as well. Not a GREAT sword, but a functional one.

>>53165912
Meatshield hirelings, or just one dedicated bodyguard. An actual shield or a quarterstaff for +2 Parry. Probably a spell?

>>53165991
Seconding bodyguard with the Sacrificial Parry/Block perks and either a quarterstaff or a sword and shield depending.

Is there a way to implement a comrade system similar to Only War?

>>53166139

How's the comrade system work in Only War? Not familiar with that system.

>>53166139

GURPS uses a more granular scale than Only War, and that causes some issues. You're trying to emulate a vague, imprecise feature in a highly detailed system. But yes, in theory you could, but I'm not sure you'll actually want to.

The detailed and "Gurps-friendly" way to do it is to just get a weaker Ally who spends his/her turns supporting you.

For a more mechanics-accurate way to emulate it, you could look into suitable advantages like maybe Extra Attack and the Gadget limitation. Your comrade IS more of a living Gadget than a character, I guess.

>>53165991
>>53166083
I got a staff, just need to learn to use it (top of my list after recent round of XP spending).

A body guard, hmmm, like specifically someone other than the other murder machine PCs?

>>53166168
From what I understand certain PC classes come with "comrades" or sidekick characters that they can order to shoot, do simple tasks and can take bullets for the PC. it's supposed to make you feel like your part of a squad or fireteam instead of just 4 - 5 bozos that save the world.

>>53164690
>>53165221
It includes your clothes. Please tell me where you are going to pack any armor at 20 lbs

Also, which part of TL7 is not explicit enough that you (the 2nd anon) keep referring to things from TL8?

>>53166315
Yes, someone you hire on. PCs tends to be okay with their role being "defend their party," but they're less okay with their role being "defend this one PC who is explicitly your boss."

That being said, if you do have a dedicated bodyguard as a PC, capitalize on it and save some dosh.

>>53166319
I'd look at using the swarm rules.

>>53166429
The part in the original post
>>53162349
>TL7+ it's anything with auto-fire and low bulk; SMGs curb just about any other weapon
>TL7+
>7+
>7
>+
Where it says seven PLUS.
You arbitrarily narrowed the earlier premise from TL7 and up to 'just' TL7. That's on you.
Original conversation
>Tech level 7 and up
You
>BUT IF ONLY TL 7, ARS R BETTUH!

>>53166541
Ever occured to you I'm NOT that guy?

>>53166612
No, anonymous. I had no idea who you are, nor do I much care.

>>53166168
Very stupid mechanic where some classes come with a supplementary sidekick soldier, but instead of being a separate character he is a sort of familiar that hangs around you, bestows some bonuses in combat and can take a bullet for you.

Sure is a lot more arguments in this thread than normal, some of them not even about GURPS. Is it summer already?

I have a few ideas for short games that I want to run in the near future, for new players to GURPS. Could I get some feedback on how these pitches sound?

>Desert Bus: A zombie apocalypse game where the party's van breaks down on Route 66. They travel to a nearby town to scavenge, only to discover that there are more than zombies out here.... Mundane but competent characters, realistic.

>Blast from the Past: A Mars Attacks game where characters were cryogenically frozen humans from different time periods, now freed from their icy prison and waking up on unknown shores. Now they need to save this strange new world from alien invaders! Heroic characters, mildly to highly cinematic, depending on characters.

>The Floating Necropolis: A high fantasy game where characters storm the flying fortress of the Artificer Lich Xyzulb, an ancient evil that is a scourge on the human lands. Heroic characters, highly cinematic.

>>53166612
This is 4chan, bruh, we're ALL That Guy.

>>53166837
Those all sound neat, but Blast from the Past sounds like a great way to introduce characters to the mix and match capabilities of GURPS.

Desert Bus being realistic in a a post apocalypse with how lethal GURPS combat can be. With new players? Probably not a good introduction, but great for a second campaign.

>>53166837
I'd go with The Floating Necropolis, but my "new" players weren't totally green but instead D&D converts, so I used a dungeoncrawl to introduce them; familiar genre, new fun mechanics with actual depth!

>>53163889
>Yeah, but that level of expertise with a gun is 'trained with a master for hundreds of years' good

No, it's not. It's "I spent most of my 100 character points on that" good. If you don't like it, play a system with escalating costs for skill increase.

>You're within your 'rights', but you still don't guarantee you're fitting in the campaign or its power level.

I have no more character points than anyone else. I'm not even doing any kind of broken combo. I'm just spending a lot of points in Rifles cause my character practiced with rifles a lot.

>Also, your lack of swimming is gonna get you killed legitimately.

Okay? So I put a few points into swimming. I said I was spending 80 points on Rifles not all 100 points. Did you even read my post?

>>53163902
I don't even play D&D. Nice try.

>>53164016
>But sure, that's all GURPS fault

The system is built to allow it. Stop blaming me just for using the rules intelligently.
>>53164037
>That not only violates RAW for a realistic game

So? There's nothing stopping you from having a 25+ rifles skill.

>It's a toolbox system for a DM to make any game with.

And it's fucking shit. Perhaps if skills actually cost more to increase after a certain point in order to fit the bell curve, it would make more sense. But no, character creation is both fluid AND unbounded and the result is the developers' expectations being sadly naive. Just because they want to make a jack of all trades, doesn't mean I have to. Actually, I *did* make a jack of all trades, he's just not very good at those other things, merely mildly proficient.

>>53165346
>Skill investments should cap at stat+5 , or roughly 20~28 points

See, that might be a good rule. Or even having the cost to increase escalate, i.e. +4, then +6, then +8, then +10, and so on. It would certainly help solve the problem. That way you are ENCOURAGED to spread out your skills because it is way cheaper, rather than just doing it because the developers told you to because that's how they want you to play even though their rules do not reflect that fact.

Do not bother with that "lol it's a toolbox" crap, it's a bullshit excuse and shows how uninformed you are about the actual issue.

>>53166871
>>53167054
Thanks for the feedback. I'll have them choose between Blast from the Past and The Floating Necropolis. Any advice on how to structure a short campaign so that it has a satisfactory ending after a month or two of weekly sessions? Moreso for the Mars Attacks game, since that one isn't taking place on a floating island with an obvious objective. Perhaps some sort of macguffin that'll end the war as the climax?

>>53133392

kek

You know what would suck? If someone made a sane build going for say effective skill of 14 guns, 14 stealth, and 14 camouflage.

>>53167582
If raising a skill costs 6 points, then it automatically loses out to a 5-point talent that increases multiple skills, as opposed to before where it was the cheapest investment to raise a single skill that you care about.

>>53167540
>The system is built to allow it.
That's like saying that because a car is built to be tough you should crash it. Get out of here you reddit spacing asshat.

>>53167618
>If someone made a sane build going for say effective skill of 14 guns, 14 stealth, and 14 camouflage.

So what? I can just bump perception up to 14 with those extra 20 points I mentioned and be on even footing with him. Hell, I'll know down my guns skill a few points and jack it up to 18 so my Perception is even better. Makes sense for a scout character. I can aim with my rifle and make up for the lost Guns skill anyway.

>>53167702
>That's like saying that because a car is built to be tough you should crash it.

That's a pretty retarded metaphor. If a car was built to go 100 miles an hour and there was no speed limit on the road, and some whiny faggot comes and sticks a speed limit sign by the side of the road with a nuclear bomb saying he is going to nuke the entire state if anyone goes over 50 miles per hour, then he would be a twat. That is basically what the DM is doing in this situation by not allowing me to take a 37 rifles skill, just because he's butthurt about the game not working properly.

>>53167641
Except those Advantages are mostly garbage, they are just flat bonuses and extra to track on the character sheet, they hurt the elegance of the system. The only modifiers to skill level should be the attribute and the skill points invested. Period.

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>>53167702
>>53167641
>>53167618
Guys holy fucknuts he could not be more obvious if his username was "Imma Troll"; how the fuck are people still trying to rationally debate a faggot that obviously has no idea how the system works nor a desire to learn?

Sage goes in all fucking fields (except name fields?)

>>53167822
Maybe you should actually form an argument and not strawman like a complete ass. You have no point.

>>53167782

Good... Good... Your character is on the right track. As you can see, you're a lot more versatile and a lot more capable now. Of course, if your opponent is wearing a ghillie suit or similar effective skill boosting gear you'll need higher Perception than that.

As a scout, have you considered skills relating to traps and antipersonel mines? Those would fuck you up real bad and raw perception isn't going to be enough there.

I guess you could compensate part of it with gear yourself, IR goggles or binoculars for example. But those are quite expensive. Have you considered Patron or Wealth?

How about a point or two in ST and/or HT to help you carry the extra equipment? If ST seems too expensive there are skills for carrying and skills like Hiking to reduce the negative effects of encumbrance. HT would also help you resist cold, heat and disease, meaning you can cut down on clothing and thrive rather than survive.
Speaking of, have you considered a skill for self-diagnosis and first aid for treating for example a sprained ankle? Or do you expect to have a trained spotter/babysitter with you at all times?

>>53167604
Blast from the Past: Have them working with scientists to either finish a superweapon to take down the mothership, or trying to build a ship of their own to perform a decapitation strike on the Ayyy high command/AI. Think really sped up XCOM. Missions with objectives to secure instead of just kill x aliens and save y civilians. If your characters go diplo route, trying to get remnants of the other nations/militaries to cooperate and commit resources to the project.

Anyone doing superspy builds will naturally have to keep track of anyone thinking of collaborating or trying to surrender to the Green Menace and such. Perhaps even down to doing wetwork.

There's plenty of things you can do just ripping from videogames. But please don't let them try to do something like upload a computer virus if they haven't even had anyone capture and research alien computers and programming.

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>>53168312
>But please don't let them try to do something like upload a computer virus if they haven't even had anyone capture and research alien computers and programming.
>He doubts the power of the laughing skull!

You don't have to know the target system's syntax or OS to spook it to death.

>>53167822
You keeping saying GURPS is a game, which it isn't. It's a system designed to allow GMs to make any game they want. If you read the Basic Set it constantly tells GMs to set additional limits on what their players can do beyond what the rules say, because the game those players are playing is the game crafted by the GM using GURPS, not GURPS. Everything you've done and said goes against this basic understanding of how the system is designed.

>>53168581

This is why you shouldn't have 'IT GUY!' as a wildcard skill.

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>>53163820
>What reason does the DM have to disallow this character?
it doesn't fit the campaign, either in power level, theme, or that it otherwise doesn't make sense
this is also entirely within the rules, read up on the advantage 'unusual background' which specifically allows you to give point taxes to or entirely forbid a character concept that would disrupt a campaign.


the kind of skill level you're proposing is more suitable for a god or demigod based around guns, and will always be very out of place amongst other 100 point characters, unless you're playing in a very weird campaign with very weird people.

either way, any sensible DM would require you either take an equivalent unusual background for 80 points in guns (rifle) or simply forbid it entirely, and tell you to go make a proper character this time.
in fact, it doesn't even need to be written on paper or built into the system - any good DM should deny a character that is obviously minmaxed or otherwise built to disrupt the campaign, no matter the system.

lord knows you wouldn't allow something like pun pun in your campaign.

i guess it's fun to imagine how a player would actually try to play such a character though. after all, they'd be more or less useless in every other aspect of life, and i imagine they'd get pretty bored of it pretty quickly.

>>53167540
>And it's fucking shit
ah, you're just trying to confirm your biases
nevermind, then.
i hope you one day find a system you are happy with.

>>53169135
>Anon: GURPS is shit because I can X.
>You: Okay, whatever.
>Anon: GURPSfags are fucking terrible and so are these threads. Shit threads.
>You: (Doesn't dignify that with a response and replies to other posts instead, or suggests a new idea to talk about)

Is this really so hard? Do people really have to give that anon like 20 responses?

>>53169221
yes

>>53169221
A *small* amount of it can be useful for other people with legitimate questions about the system. >>53168058, for example, talks about the need to diversify your character and how many traits a soldier/gunner would realistically want to pack beyond Guns and Soldier, which is something I see newbies struggle with at times.

But yeah, dealing with the same shitter (or a different shitter that took up the old one's abandoned banner) 250 posts later is unnecessary.

>>53167540
>The system is built to allow it.
Did you've just said you didn't actually read the rules of the game? Like the disclaimer about Rule 0? Or the one what each level of skill represents, thus making it impossible for you to make - contrary to your claim - a human character with 20, not to mention 36 in any given skill?

Because for me it sounds you didn't read the rules other than "if you add points, things are easier to perform" and then went from there, but skipped all the important parts

>>53167483
>I have no more character points than anyone else. I'm not even doing any kind of broken combo. I'm just spending a lot of points in Rifles cause my character practiced with rifles a lot.
... and your GM didn't allow you to end up with more than 16 in Guns (Rifle), because it's a 100 points campaign, so good luck with your retarded claim.

Seriously, what the fuck is with GURPS GEN today? Retarded bait, retarded argument about Greek myth (the fuck that even has to do with GURPS?!), retarded argument about SMGs... what the hell?!

Ok, let's try to salvage this wreck of a thread for something useful. I'm planning to run Not!Fallout game, or rather Not!Neuroshima game. Details aren't important, but I can't decide if I should set the point limit at 125 or 150. It's for "low tier" cinematic game, but I don't want to go too far away with the cinematic part. Kind of like watching the new Dredd type of cinematic - a lot of cool and flashy stuff, but down to details barely anything spectacular happens and people still die in droves.

>>53167854
>how the fuck are people still trying to rationally debate a faggot that obviously has no idea how the system works nor a desire to learn?
Why not? I get to talk about GURPS and be right at the same time. It's the best of both worlds.

>>53167837
You're right, somebody who wants to be good at a group of skills should either pay a ridiculous amount of points to raise all of them, or raise the linked attribute and become good at everything that isn't part of that small group of skills. Why would anyone ever have a character concept of somebody that's talented at a group of skills, but overall doesn't have remarkable attributes? That's just inelegant.

Talents are the midway between investing in a skill directly and investing in attributes. They have an important function in the game's mechanics by making it so that you can be a computer wiz without having to raise IQ to ridiculous levels, thus making you good at every single IQ skill due to higher defaults, and without spending as many points as it would take to raise IQ by 1 for a group of skills.

>>53169475
150; because not everyone's going to make a hyper-efficient optimized character, you should probably give them some wiggle room.

>>53168312
Good advice, thanks. I think I'll go the superweapon route and have them raid a science base for the schematics of a weapon to end the war, then have an assault on the mothership, or securing a position to fire the weapon. I'll have to adjust for characters, of course, but thinking of it as sped-up XCOM is a good frame of mind to have.

>>53169475
>>53169537

Try 130 with 20 points of disadvantages allowed. Should allow for decent characters without giving enough disads to turn them into trainwrecks.

>>53169408
To be fair, the argument about SMGs is at least relevant to the system and not blatant trolling.

>>53169758
It's either 125/-25 or 150/-30. Those are my "standard" rates. But I think the first anon is right - 150 points gives enough room to move and two out of five players in that group are completely green to GURPS

How hard is it to run a campaign using Transhuman Space? Particularly one taking place in Fifth Wave societies?

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>>53163820
well, no. Not really? You show up for a game and put down your character, the GM looks at it and goes "Hey, this doesn't work", and there you are then.

Didn't work, make another one. If the game was about gunshooting special guns, then sure. That'd be great.

I don't understand your argument, it reads to me like "Gurps is broken for allowing someone who invests massively in a single speciality to be really good at that speciality! The rules mean that if I get really good at a thing, I'm really good at a thing!". Oh no, how terrible. The rules work as intended?

There's even an overview for GUNS skill that reads out the expected skill levels and ends at 18 by going "remarkable swat officers and exceptional hostage-rescuers and snipers".

Going endlessly beyond 18 to reach a skill of 31 is just the game meaning you're good at guns. You're so far beyond special forces operators who train exclusively 20 hours a day that there's not even a scale for the level you're on. The GURPS base math is a bellcurve of 3d6, and a +1 is not a flat +5%. You are so many mean deviations beyond the the acceptable scale that the word "Outlier" doesn't even apply to you. You're in a data-set of your own.

>>53167483
What? No. The escalating costs for skill increases are right there in the core book.

Stop trolling, it's not even useful.

A much more interesting discussion is "How good is someone with 31 skill in Guns".

What sort of things can they shoot? If that was their only superpower, would they be a threat to others? Never miss, I guess. But maybe you could stack a bunch of precision aiming called shots to up damage?

>>53163820
>The two most important things to know about your character are who he is and what role you want him to play in his adventures. Find out what kind of game the GM plans to run and what kinds of characters he intends to allow.
Basic Set page 11.
Keyword: "Allow".

>To encourage players to develop their characters laterally instead of sinking all their points into just one or two skills, the GM might wish to consider limiting PCs to skill levels somewhere in the 20-25 range.
Basic Set page 172.

Maybe your GM is running a game in which you're low level supers, and being the living embodiment of /k/ is okay. Maybe he wants to run something realistic, and says that no skill should be higher than 25. Or 20, or maybe even lower. It doesn't matter.

What matters is that a GM has every right to set limits on character creation, and disallow characters that overstep those limits.

>>53170936
Honestly, what's even the point of making characters with skills above 15? I pretty quick end up with situations where points just keep pilling on me, because I'm left with no skills to invest. Are there people who actually start with 20 or even 25? The hell they do later with those points?
No, really, what's the fucking point? The highest penalty you are going to get is such laughably small compared to Skill 16+ there is literally no point having more.

>>53171048
Combat skills do make some form of sense to make them as high as possible, since combat penalties accumulate pretty fast. There's also Feints.

Also, high skills are useful if you want to do things that are in the impossible (-10) difficulty bracket with some reliability, if your GM allows that.

The way I usually make my characters is to nearly max out a few skills I plan to use a lot and keep the rest around 13.

>>53171170
If shit is called impossible, it's not something you should be able to do on routine basis, unless you are running high point Supers game, but those are simply BORING by the sheer virtue of having no challenge, ever.

Assuming I've got a budget for that (read: 150 points), I still never go above 15. And that's for Professional/Hobby skill, one, single, picked carefully, if fitting character at all. 12 works nice for most of things, in combat 13 is enough (unless it's melee, then notch that up to 14) and... yeah, that's it. No real point going higher, aside turning your chances from 90% to 91.4%.
Big fucking difference, right? Especially since you have high skills anyway, as 13+ is full-time professional.

>>53171249
I mean, if you're playing a realistic game, then yeah, 15 is enough.

But if you're playing something like Dungeon Fantasy or something, then you really need to pump up at least your main combat skill to 20 so you can win Feints or reliably go for eyes or chinks in armor.

I guess it also depends on your GM and the penalties he usually likes to apply.

>>53171048
>Honestly, what's even the point of making characters with skills above 15?
Depends on the campaign and character.
I'm in a fairly cinematic thing right now, and having a few skills over 15 (usually due to talents), can be nice. If you character concept is stuff like "The Marksman" or "The Doctor", being what the system considers to be a skilled expert (bordering on master) is perfectly reasonable.

So since we're supposed to be playing incredibly skilled professionals, people pick a few defining skills that they know they'll almost always be able to pull off.

I usually just end up getting a few important skills to that 15-18 threshold, and then get a ton of skills at anywhere between 10-14, depending on how much I use them.
Also sometimes I just get skills for the hell of it. I've never rolled Dreaming, but I sure as fuck have it.

>>53171249
>If shit is called impossible, it's not something you should be able to do on routine basis
Unless that's within the scope of your campaign. Cinematic professionals could pull off impossible stuff now and then, while realistic law enforcement officers should only very rarely be able to do it.

There's not a single correct answer here, it depends on the intent of the campaign.

>>53171336
If I wanted to play a heroic game, I would go and play some Feng Shui or Tianxia. GURPS is for different things and hardly works with heroic stuff. Cinematic - maybe. Heroic, especially heroic fantasy - not at all.
But I get the point you are making here. I just don't agree with it on the basic principle of GURPS being unsuitable for that kind of a game and truly shining in its own field, rather than being for-real Generic.

>>53171362
Nice to know you've cut my own sentences in half to write yourself a commentary that was in second part of said sentences, asshole

>>53171409
Tell me the real reason why you're so angry.

>>53171440
You've made an absolutely pointless post greatly extrapolating what I've already said myself. I'm angry, because you are a pompous asshole or at least act like one.
Now take your time and guess what type of behaviour I don't like for purely personal reasons.

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>>53171409
>>53171487

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>>53171510
(You)

>>53171487
You're a bit of an asshole yourself, buddy.

You basically came here and went:
>What's the point of X
>Oh, it's to play games that are Y
>I don't like Y so X is pointless

So yeah, you're not any better.

>>53171048
Guns above 15 because hitting a moving target in the conditions adventurers get into can give you some crazy penalties.

But the main reason to have skills above fifteen is if you're going to use Gadgeteer or be an inventor. An effective minimum skill to invent stuff is 15 iirc. Minimum.

>>53171249
>unless you are running high point Supers game, but those are simply BORING by the sheer virtue of having no challenge, ever.
That's the GM's fault for not challenging you, then, not GURPS. GURPS has more than enough support for high point play. Have you ever been pressed for time? Haste penalties quickly stack up. Is it dark? Penalties for that. On bad footing? Penalties for that. Without your equipment? Penalties for that. Your GM is just inexperienced with properly applying TDMs is all, or putting you into situations where those TDMs would apply.

>>53167854
>a faggot that obviously has no idea how the system works nor a desire to learn?

Quote literally one place where I didn't know the rules, fagwit.

>>53168058
Nigga I don't need any of that shit. IR goggles? My shooting is so fucking high I can just soak the darkness penalties. And sure I'm not any less vulnerable to enemy bullets. I'm not saying this character is invincible: only that if he decides to shoot something, it's getting hit.

>As a scout, have you considered skills relating to traps and antipersonel mines?

Did I say I was a scout? Did I say I was anything but a fucking gunman? No. And why would I go anywhere hot or cold? If the campaign is starting there I'll buy the requisite equipment.

>>53167904
How is that a strawman? The GM is the one compensating for GURPS being unbalanced instead of playing a different system. What I am doing is 100% within the rules.

>>53169135
>it doesn't fit the campaign, either in power level, theme, or that it otherwise doesn't make sense

So that's a bullshit answer because the GM can say that about whatever character he doesn't like. Same with any RPG. He could do the EXACT same thing in a 3.5 campaign if I play a CoDzilla character and fuck his shit. It's no different.

>will always be very out of place amongst other 100 point characters,

Yeah no shit it's out of place, cause I'm fucking better than those faggots.

>either way, any sensible DM would require you either take an equivalent unusual background for 80 points in guns (rifle) or simply forbid it entirely, and tell you to go make a proper character this time.

My character is entirely within the rules. It's not even a custom fucking power, I am just using the skill system as it was made and intended. If the developers intended you to spread out your skills, THEY WOULD HAVE BUILT THE SKILL COSTS SYSTEM TO REFLECT THAT.

Except Steve Jackson is awful at game design (see: Munchkin) so he doesn't know how to make mechanics reflect his desired outcome. Not my fault.

This autist has nuked an entire thread.

>>53169330
>>53168058, for example, talks about the need to diversify your character and how many traits a soldier/gunner would realistically want to pack beyond Guns and Soldier, which is something I see newbies struggle with at times.

Except he's wrong because if I am part of a party, I don't need those skills. That's how a ROLEplaying game works. Yeah if I'm solo I might have to cut down a bit, but I likely would have another player with me who can have some other skills to take care of that shit.

>Did you've just said you didn't actually read the rules of the game? Like the disclaimer about Rule 0? Or the one what each level of skill represents, thus making it impossible for you to make - contrary to your claim - a human character with 20, not to mention 36 in any given skill?

Except those are suggestions, not actual rules.

>>53174209
They explicitly mention you should spread out your skills and build a realistic character. You haven't even read basic set.

>>53174209
Again, dude, GURPS doesn't give any context for character creation. That character may be perfectly fine for one game, but not for another. This is like complaining about being able to make a TL3 knight when the GM is running Star Trek.

>>53169408
>and your GM didn't allow you to end up with more than 16 in Guns (Rifle), because it's a 100 points campaign, so good luck with your retarded claim.

Except there's no rule that says I can't go over 16 in rifles, are you fucking retarded?

>>53174215
The people replying to him are as much at fault.

This is isn't the first time he's done this. I don't know why people keep falling for the same troll.

It's clear he doesn't like GURPS and hasn't really played GURPS, so why bother answering him? Just ignore the idiot, he'll go away soon enough and stop wasting thread space.

>>53174279
He goes on and on like GURPS violated him with a rifle.

>>53174301
It's the autism my man, it does this to people.

>>53174311
Is there a cure, or will he have to be put down?

>>53169503
Oh cool! 150 points! There we go. That sounds more like a real GURPS campaign anyway. Okay what was that other anon bitching about? First Aid and Traps? Okay one of those is average and one is easy so I'll buy both at 11 for 12 points total, then I'll get my perception up to 18 for another 40. Now I've spent 52 points so far. I don't need ST or HT to carry my gear this faggot is retarded if he thinks one IR scope even weighs that much, and besides I can just soak the darkness penalties in most cases. Let's buy up Stealth to 14 for another 16 points putting me at 68, then Combat Reflexes that you all have such a fucking hard-on for, put me at 83. Okay now let's take... hm...Stuttering sounds good, for 10 points, knock me down to 73. So that leaves me with 77 points to put toward guns skill. So I can buy a Perk and then spend 16 on guns to get to 15, and have 60 left. Divide by 4 for an extra +15 to my guns skill, putting me at 30.

>I don't understand your argument, it reads to me like "Gurps is broken for allowing someone who invests massively in a single speciality to be really good at that speciality! The rules mean that if I get really good at a thing, I'm really good at a thing!". Oh no, how terrible. The rules work as intended?

The argument is that there is no diminishing return the way developers intended, because when they do their "lol skills past 18 don't matter so you shouldn't take them" shit, they forget that the situational modifiers like range and lateral movement and called shots exist, so a high shooting is great for being able to pull off consistent headshots on running targets at long range.

>What? No. The escalating costs for skill increases are right there in the core book.

So does Attribute + 6 for Guns (easy) cost 20 points? Or 24? The skill costs escalate LINEARLY as far as I know, that's how they work in every game, dumbfuck, otherwise I would get infinite skill for free. I mean do the costs escalate linearly or exponentially?

>>53174232
Rule 0 and the part about your skills having to fit what is acceptable for the campaign in terms of roleplaying are not suggestions.

>>53174364
What part of Guns (Rifle)-30 is "low tier cinematic" to you?