/osrg/ OSR General

Want to generate systems for my science fantasy game fairly easily. Which works better, Spelljammer or Hackjammer? Maybe an alternative I don't know about?

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>>53091350
I have no idea about the two systems you've mentioned, but I do have this pic which can be fun. The text being wrapped around everything is a bit screwy but I'm okay with it personally.

OSR blogs poll, URLs taken from the Pastebin:

https://www.strawpoll.me/12856929 (1/2)
https://www.strawpoll.me/12856933 (2/2)

>>53091350
Stars Without Number?

Here it is automated:
http://swn.emichron.com/

>>53091184
>Remember when rolling a character took 5 minutes?

Still does, in 2e at that.

>>53091350
Hilariously you will find Hackjammer a cleaner and more concise everything than regular Spelljammer.

>>53091998
>So, what is that in English?
黑白 -> Black and White
"Orthodox and Unorthodox Sects"

正邪 -> Right and Wrong
"Righteous and Evil Sects"

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I would love to see the map from >>53059682 get finished. So far 1, 2, 5 and 8 have been described.

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>>53094781
I had more ideas but I wanted to give other people a chance to write stuff. And I wasn't sure if you even liked my write-ups.

>>53094957
Which one(s) did you write? I liked all of them. I did #2 so I'm kind of in the same boat as you, I'd like to see others write something.

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>>53095053
I did #5 and #8. Glad you liked them.

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I'm ready for this osrg. Bring it on!

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>>53093016
>>53093446
>There's less than 60 regular posters in these threads.
How can you tell with such accuracy?

Friggin phoneposters. Bottom right corner of the screen on a proper monitor, there are 4 numbers separated by slashes. Replies / Images / Posters / Page.

Just before I posted this, there are 12 replies in this thread by 9 people.

It stops recording for archived threads.

>>53093999
>takes 5 minutes to roll up a 2e character
Tell my wife that... she takes a day

>>53095764
At least you have a wife

Planning to get into OSR games with my group. Gunna start with LotFP and run The God That Crawls. It'll be 5 players, should I have them roll up two characters each? Or just stick to one each?

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>>53096072
>At least you have a wife

>>53096136
That would work, but then you run the risk of not wanting to kill a player's characters because it'd take out both at once. Alternatively, Just write a d20 or d50 table of reasons someone could be in that dungeon (drunk priest, escaped sacrifice, smugglers, tomb robbers, etc.) and have replacement PC roll on it.

>>53094548
Does Korea have those reversed? I have often seen black sect to mean bad or left handed with assassination and white to mean good or right handed with duels.

>>53096463
Black -> Unorthodox
White -> Orthodox

I wrote each pair in the way that flows naturally in English.
Sorry for the ambiguity.

>>53091350

stars without number is solid

>>53094781
>>53094957
Thanks for the bump, almost forgot about this. I liked all the entries, keep 'em coming.
I'll post an updated map with the lava lake later on -- I'll wait until it's keyed, in case newer entries change it. Then compile a pdf or something usable.

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>>53096333
>not marrying a witch

>>53093999

>trying to set up a game in 2e for a friend who loves the system
>still not confident creating characters, take like fifteen minutes for minor characters
>not even dealing with wizards, priests, thieves or bards yet

TEACH ME YOUR WAYS

>>53094781

Can you give me a quick overview of what the ones that have been done are? I'd love to add something to this, but I want to know what the region is like so far before I start. I'm currently planning a game involving a giant forest that secretly contains a rift in the center that seemlessly transports travellers into the faewild, and I could use a break from fucking fae shit, seriously, fuck those goddamn pointy eared curly toed bastards for a while.

IF YOU'RE IN MY GAME YOU'LL KNOW AFTER THE FIRST SPOILER, DON'T READ THE REST AND SPOIL IT FOR YOURSELF YOU ASSHATS

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>>53097148

fuck, I fucked up my spoiler

shit

well, hopefully they won't come in

>>53097148

1. >>53059911
2. >>53060106
3.
4.
5. >>53060319
6.
7.
8. >>53060660
9.

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>>53097083
>not marrying a witch

I'd still refer to her as my wife first and a witch second. It's only polite.

>>53097030
>>53096463
I swear there was a screencap that explained this.

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>>53097380
7. Ancient Phoenix Power Plant
You can't kill a phoenix, but if you wack 'em on the head and stuff them into an (incredibly valuable) shell of rare metals, you can trap their next incarnation. The heat they produce is immense. There are three phoenix eggs in this plant, each fed by a vast network of rivers, pipes and gates. The network collapsed centuries ago. Most of the plant is flooded. The 4th egg cracked a few decades ago and exploded half the plant with a massive blast of magic-tainted steam. Every room is at least half flooded, or damp, or scalding hot. Lots of metal though, and bottled lightning elementals, ceramic golems, and scald zombies.

I need yugoloths in my life, for real. Like, not literally just more info about them 'cause there's precious little out there.
≥What are your favorite monsters to spring on people?
From any game, IDC.

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>>53097468
Phoenix Power Plant Encounter Table:
1. 1d4 (exploding on a 4) scald zombies. As regular zombies but immune to fire. They look like bright red meat seared and shrunk to bones. Hideous (might cause fear). They still smell like boiled bones.
2. Bottled lighting elemental. Glass sphere the size of a cabbage, glowing with plasma. Makes a noise like an electric guitar in a tin silo. Explodes if broken. Wants to touch you. Not hostile, not even angry, but completely alien.
3. Rumbles, then temperature shifts. Something changed in the piping. Expect 1)hot steam 2) cold water 3) sloping floor 4) a wave of hot water
4. 2d10 bath pilgrims. Worship a giant yellow duck god (vestigial cultural memories of phoenixes). Wear only towels, wield scrubbing brooms to poke back the scald zombies. Friendly but extremely lazy, fat, and pink. Won't talk to dirty people, but will talk dirty to clean people.
5. 2d10 Aquatic goblins in shitty scuba gear, diving for rare metals.
6. Ceramic Golem. Repairing, guarding, marching, crushing. Dumb but tough. Every part is as light as chalk and as strong as steel. Will break your arm like a toothpick.
7. Broken Ceramic Golem. Half shattered, stumbling in a circle or bashing head against wall. Inside, it's just more glass and ceramic bits. Wants to die.
8. High pitched hissing, then steam explosion.
9. 1d4 wizards, trying to figure out the source of the steam. They appear friendly but are extremely treacherous when it comes to magical loot.
10. 1 succubus and 1d20 succubus trainees, currently enjoying a "beach episode", whatever that is. Will flirt and cause hilarious situations but won't so much as glance at anything actually lewd. Pick a fight and they'll chase you into a scald-pit.

>>53092674
I also have that, and i've used it, but it's turned out rather sparse, with systems that rarely have more than one thing in it.

It's too much like an actual dungeon room, with a high probability of containing nothing, and usually only has one sort of challenge to it.

>>53093589
>>53097050

Stars Without Number is interesting, but it's results are too scifi. This is distinctly much more D&D/Fantasy in space.

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Has anyone here played or read Castle & Crusades? Does it have anything worth stealing?

>>53098240
I like its monk, but the Siege engine is kinda dumb.

>>53097393
>I swear there was a screencap
I've got the "how Wuxia settings work" screencap.
I'd post it, but I'm in hell and hell is in a Faraday Cage.
>that explained this.
I don't remember it going into detail on the factions, beyond "the evil blokes are noy, and do not pretend to be, honest."
The jist is:

Several overlapping societies.
It helps to thinks of them as planes.
• Mortal World: Wars and Warlords
• Jianghu: Muggers and Mafioso.
• Wulin: Dojos and Duelists.
• Taoist shit: Sorcerers with swords.
• Actually Other Planes: Deities and Devils.

Supernatural things fall into a few categories.
• Yao: Monsters.
• Mo: Demon.
• Gui: Ghost.
• Guai: Gonzo.
• Xian: Post-human nerds.
• Shen: Born powerful.

Morality/Confucianism:
Wuxia blokes have skewed their moral priorities for the cultural norm.
This puts them at odds with the everyone else.
On the other hand, they follow their morals. Even the "evil faction" blokes.
The non-Wuxia blokes tend to be judgemental amoral cunts.

Giving Face/Lip Service:
• esteem is a de facto currency, you can spend it to resolve social encounters
• but this is not!China; even though people go along with it, no one honestly values society

>>53097624
Genies, especially Dao.
Thri-kreen
Weirdo Dragons (Cobra, Cloud, Sea, Linnorm, Spider, Yellow/Salt)

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>>53097468
Digging this and the wight tomb. Will keep updating this PDF if people make more.

I'm writing my own OSR type of of game ( aren't we all?).
Everything is in d6, including all weapon type damage.
What's a good way to differentiate them?
First thought is +/- damage, but that's no fun because weapons with -'s are at risk of doing 0 despite hitting.

I think bigger weapons do more damage depending on the targets HD, with the cap depending on the size of the weapon.
So dagger and a sword does 1d of damage against a commoner
But against something a bit stronger with 2HD the dagger will still do 1D of damage but the sword will now do 2D of damage. And against something even bigger the sword will still do 2D of damage while a 2 handed weapon would do 3D of damage.
But that slows the game down.
Is it a decent idea anyways?

>>53098755
As for pluses and minuses, why not say a hit always does at least one point of damage?

>>53098755
That sounds very unpleasant at the table and also kind of counterintuitive. If the weapon is bigger and badder shouldn't it do more when "punching down" so to speak? And less as the target scales up? A six inch deep gash is gonna be bad for me, but super deadly to a gnome, and a scrape to an ogre.

>>53098889
The way I thought it is that a you're just as dead if a dagger, longsword, or greatsword slashes your throat open. But a dagger isn't going to open the throat of a dragon, while a greatsword could.

>>53098755

Just make weapons with -s min at 1.

Though, ill be honest, if its not dicepools I don't like systems with only one die. There really is no way to meaningfully differentiate things the way your different weapons, health for classes, etc.

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>>53098753
I'll write up the Phoenix Power Plant as a dungeon once I'm done with the Tomb of the Serpent Kings.

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>>53099377
Sick. Can't wait.

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>>53099377
Hey anon, would you be alright if the underground networks in #7 connects with the lavacaves in #2? I'm thinking of doing a longer writeup on that and I feel that it's fitting considering they both have heat as a theme and are very close to each other.

>>53099834
Oh yeah, sure, absolutely. All that water has to go somewhere, so it's totally feasible for there to be channels and caves.

What are the main tropes/themes/mechanics for osr?

i think listing them would be a good guideline for creating alike games

>>53099855
Cool dude, thanks. It'll just be a short mention like "the caves continue on toward the flooded phoenix power plant to the west" or something.

>>53099864
>tropes
• John is dead, but you meet his cousin Bron just around the corner
• [looks up from screen] "hmm, that *is* a good question."
• the enemy of my enemy is my friend

>themes
• dungeons full of loot
• dungeons full of empty rooms
• untamed wilderness
• life is cheap
• us versus them

>mechanics
• xp for gp
• loose guidelines for combat
• arbitration for most else (roleplay searching, etc.)
• time management (Wandering Monsters, etc.)

>>53099864
>A focus on emergent storytelling (world reacting to PC choices)
>Medium lethality (PCs die a lot but TPKs should be rare)
>Monsters can be bribed/bamboozled/cajoled
>Sometimes running is the best option
>Sometimes running is the only option

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>>53098487
>noy
*not

Anyways, here's the cap.
Lets see how well I remembered it, I guess.

Can I get an opinion on a table im using to generate goodies for planets in my science fantasy campaign?

Planet Goodies: Roll 1d100:
01-10 - Single moon, roll again.
11-15 - 1d4 moons.
16-20 - 1d4 moons, roll again
21-25 - Double planets, locked in ring orbit. Roll individual goodies for each planet.
26-30 - Cluster of asteroids
31-35 - Trojan asteroids, before or behind planet in orbit
36-40 - Planetary Ring 1d3 (Earth, Fire, Water/ice)
41-50 - Planet hotter than normal. Greenhouse effect, deserts.
51-60 - Plant colder than normal. Current or leaving ice age. Frozen surface.
61-70 - Vacuum. Civilizations will be protected or underground.
71-75 - World Empire Civilization. Spelljammer tech.
76-85 - Orbital Spelljammer port. On asteroid of size Class A object
86-90 - Homeworld
91-99 - Roll twice
00 - Roll three times.

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>>53100710
>Spelljammer
>science fantasy

>>53100768
That's the genre.

You have anything to actually contribute?

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>>53100931
You could refluff wildspace any way you'd like without effecting Spelljammer's aesthetic.
Which is a fancy way of saying, "space travel isn't a core aspect of the setting."

Spelljammer is Age of Sail.

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>>53100931
3 gigs of anime girl reaction images, I suspect.

>>53100710
Anyway, how many dang planets do you need?

There's only so much interesting content you can generate before it either becomes fully procedural or you start getting lazy and/or unenthused. How much planet-hopping are you expecting in a game? Is it worth it to generate them using a table, or would it make more sense to write them ahead of time?

>>53101065
>>53101065

I expect a great deal of crystal sphere travel, considering the nature of the setting.

The table is used to both help my creative process when writing material for existing spheres, and to generate something on the fly when my players go somewhere unexpected.

Any good aquatic adventures out there? My players need the help of a sea god's temple, and I figure I'm going to throw a quest at their direction. Kinda playing around with the idea that there's something in the ocean they need to go mess around with. I was wondering if there were any good, existing adventures I could just throw in.

Alternatively, any good ideas as for what they're going to have to do?

has some one use ability score increasement at fast rate for their games? like 2 points per level

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>>53101374
Sea Queen Escapes, as all DCC modules, is pretty good.

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>>53094781
>>53098753
Doing just one more.

#4 - Monastery of the August Order of the Ochre Mantis.
This tower is the home of an order of (lawful evil) monks. They have discovered a dark and secret elixir that allows them to shed their human forms and become mantis-like creatures.
Only monks of 8 HD or higher are allowed to attempt the transformation. Those who imbibe the elixir must make two system shock tests (or two saves vs. death). Failure on the first means immediate death; failure on the second means transformation into a trin; success on both means a transformation into a thri-kreen of 8 hit dice.
The monastery currently houses fifty 1-HD candidates, twenty-seven 3-HD apprentices, twelve 5-HD masters, three "enlightened ones" (trin), and one "grandmaster" (thri-kreen with 8 HD).
The enlightened ones and grandmaster are very hungry creatures and their subordinates send out constant hunting parties to find meat (animal or otherwise) for them. Failing that, candidates will be feed to them (followed by apprentices) at the rate of 1 per day per creature. The enlightened ones and grandmaster will refuse to eat masters of the order or each other.

http://www.lomion.de/cmm/trin.php
http://www.lomion.de/cmm/thrikree.php

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>>53101386
Attributes only exist to help the referee decide on what is or isn't reasonable.
Levels already help the referee decide on what is or isn't reasonable.
Frankly, levels should have more influence on that than attributes.

Unless you're playing AD&D, there is absolutely no need to boost attributes.
Even within AD&D, it wasn't /that/ important before 2e.

>>53101808
>Unless you're playing AD&D, there is absolutely no need to boost attributes.
Bringing an attribute bonus from +1 to +2 is a little more than "absolutely no need", I'd say.

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>>53101825

>>53101824
Any idea on how level can affect? like +1 on things?

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>>53102572
I'm not sure how to interpret your use of "things".

>>53102591
You know like:
some sort of skill checks,giving a +1 to them
doing damage equal to your level + str+ bab

and more

Running a wilderness game pretty soon here. Have a hex map prepared with encounters linked to them, I understand that the view-able horizon for most adult humans is around 3 miles, is there a formula where I can calculate how far away you could discern terrain types or large objects based on their height/relative height of the observer.

>>53102608
Your average damage already scales with level.

"Skill checks" is still pretty ambiguous, (maybe name a system?) but the ref should be more lienent with higher level players.
Whether that's lesser penalties for failure, more favorable arbitrary chances, or outright being told "yes" to dumber ideas.

>>53102670
>Calculating relative heights of objects for perception checks

Do you really need to be THAT meticulous about it? You can easily abstract it without any real issues.

Anyhow, viewable horison is at around 3 miles on flat terrain, but the human eye can see much farther than that. At three miles, you can pretty easily make out general facts about something. Unless your eyesight's bad.

Unless there's actually something blocking your sight (bad weather, vegetation, hills, whatever), you should probably be able to discern the type of terrain in the horizon or spot large objects without real difficulty. Of course, most ground won't be all open.

>>53102833
Eh, I'd prefer a generalization about the visibility of terrain types. Like, "mountains are visible from 60 miles or 5 hexes away". Visibility is really important to have so that players can make meaningful decisions when they're exploring the wild.

>>53102670

>I understand that the view-able horizon for most adult humans is around 3 miles,
That has nothing to do with humans, and everything to do with how far away the horizon is.
After a certain distance, air gets opaque, but you could not draw a long enough line for that through the atmosphere if you tried.
So the short answer is, "you can see until things block your sight."

>s there a formula where I can calculate how far away you could discern terrain types or large objects
You won't see anything unless it's looming over the horizon.
Figuring that out whether or not something is doing that is trivial triginometry requiring
(a) your distance from the center of the earth to your eyes,
(b) the radius of the earth, and
(c) your distance from the center of the earth to the point you want to look at.
Which, honestly, are fairly arbitrary numbers.

(a) will probably be (b), unless you're on a mountain or tower, but what (b) and (c) are is entirely up to your setting.


tl;dr We don't care, and neither will your players.

>>53102887
Sorry, I meant "adult human" as a shorthand for a 6 foot tall observer at sea level. I'm not asking for a particularly simulationist shorthand formula that I will refer to everytime a player asks me "what they see" but rather a useful generalization to suss out how tall something has to be in order to see it from a 3 mile horizon.

>>53102884

The visibility of a mountain (or a castle, or a person) would totally depend on the type of terrain between you and that thing.

On an open steppe, on a tall hill, you could spot a person from incredibly far away. In a dense forest, you won't necessarily spot a mountain within a short walking distance.

There's so many variations and factors that trying to get some strict rules down about it is just futile. You really don't need those either. If you know what's in the hexes, you already know what would be reasonable to see from where. You don't really need math for that.

>>53101599
DCC modules are written for 3rd, aren't they?

Is it worth putting in the effort to convert them, and if so, which would you recommend?

>>53102974
Within that 3 mile horizon, if you assume literally nothing is blocking your view, when you're level, you can see pretty much anything the size of a large animal or larger. This will more or less never actually be the case.

This is also a very, very silly and autistic way of thinking about visibility. The size of the object is a factor, but it's sure as hell not the biggest factor. There's so many other things that affect visibility.

>>53103034

The earlier ones are. The later ones are for the DCC system. Which is a pretty gonzo, kind of a wacky thing where everyone rolls ten different kinds of nonstandard dice and every spell has a subtable for casting rolls.

Generally, they're good adventures and not too hard to convert.

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>>53103034
DCC is a system of its own, and all the later adventures have been written for it.

I'd say just about all of them are worth converting to OSR, but Peril on the Purple Planet is the best.

>>53102991
I was gonna be like "hey man, don't be so quick to put down that guy's idea" but then while I was thinking about how to defend it, I totally saw your point.

>>53102974

>1.22*SQR(feet) = horizon line in miles

That's what you want. It's simple to do if you don't worry about the details too much, and it can be used in reverse, as well.

If you've got a 100 foot tower at sea level, then 1.22×√100 = 12.2, so from the top you could see about 12 miles over flat ground, but you could also see the top of the tower peeking over the horizon form about 12 miles away as long as nothing's in the way. So on a six-mile hexmap, you could mark the tower with a "2" to indicate it can be seen from two hexes over instead of the usual one.

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>>53103034
The early DCC modules (which are generally considered pretty bad) are for 3e.
Current DCC modules are for the DCC RPG, a heavily homebrewed version of 3e.
Converting from DCC to TSR D&D is generally less work than converting from 3.PF to TSR D&D.

>>53103063
>>53103057
That sounds fun as hell. It's Goodman Games, right? They're the publisher that did the Judge's Guild reissues I think. Sounds like they put out some quality stuff.

>>53103153
I rather liked (and even own) their "Saga of the Dragon Cult" module series (which was more them stringing 4 modules together into a cohesive storyline with the inclusion of a 5th booklet). I'm also kinda wanting to get their megadugeon "Castle Whiterock" modules but I've heard mixed reviews on it.

>>53103143
Neat. Not that guy but thanks.

>>53103135
>>53102991
Sometimes it helps to see a formula first to know what/how to wing it from.

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> SACRIFICE*
> Cleric Level 3
> Duration: Instantaneous
> Range: Touch
> This spell allows the cleric to transfer any desired
> number of Hit Points from himself to the target. The
> reverse of the spell, Drain Life, allows the caster to
> drain 1d6+1 Hit Points from a creature, with a suc-
> cessful attack roll. The Hit Points are transferred to
> the cleric through healing.

Permanently?

>>53104395
as permanent as any other damage or healing

>>53104409
If the cleric transfers 10HP to a fighter, can the fighter go above his natural HP? If the cleric heals, does the fighter unheal?

>>53104500
>can the fighter go above his natural HP?
Spells is ambiguous, that's up to the ref. I'd rule it takes you above max.
It's worth noting that the reverse /will not/ take you above your maximum.
>If the cleric heals, does the fighter unheal?
If the cleric heals, the fighter loses 1d6+1 hp.
Fluff that however you feel "being less alive" should be fluffed.

>>53104500
I don't see why you would treat it any differently to a Cure Light Wounds

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>>53104914
Hm. Is Cure Light Wounds a 1st LVL spell which increases total party HP and Sacrifice is a 3rd LVL spell which doesn't?

Sorry for talking about rules on /osrg/ btw. My other post contained original content. Anthropomorphic animals and fruit. Very creative check it out.

Has there been another release of B&X? I have 03/23/2017.

>>53101386
In the homebrew system I've been fucking around with (which has Basic as its base, but which has deviated rather drastically), each time you gain a level, you randomly roll 2 attributes and choose which one of those you want to boost by a point (every 2 attribute points increases your modifiers by 1 -- through convergent evolution, I ended up with the same model that 3e uses for this). The game only has 4 attributes (strength, dexterity, constitution and intelligence) and your ability to hit people does not improve when you level (except by increasing your attributes). Of course, you start out with significantly more hit points (essentially 10 hp + your hit dice), so things don't need to scale as drastically.

>>53105206
I haven't seen it posted in a while. 3/23 is the version I have. I just assumed that the guy is taking a breather, because formatting all that shit would have to be maddening.

>>53091184
>Remember when rolling a character took 5 minutes?

Dungeon World has that in spades, longest part is picking a name.

Say what you want about the system but that character creation is so streamlined that even a 7 year old can pick up a sheet and know how to fill that fucker out.

>>53105511
If I wanted to play a narrative dungeon-crawler, I would play Torchbearer.

Can anyone explain why all OSR seems to be inspired by OD&D or AD&D 1e? I hardly ever see any OSR that embraces 2e's shitty design ethos, but I see 1e and OD&D's shitty design ethoses all over the place, and given that 2e is my favourite, it really disappoints me.

>>53096136
I would have them start with base characters and let them bring in some followers that can end up becoming PCs in a pinch if/when their's dies.

Also if you are looking for some cool LoTFP houserules to use or steal from I would highly recommend www. lastgaspgrimoire.com/ the guys rules/tables for magic users makes casting fucking fun and super dangerous and I cant play any RPG without stealing them from both Wizards and Clerics and sticking them into the new system.

>>53105511
that's nice and all but I don't see what it has to do with osr

>>53105545
Because fans want to play REAL D&D as penned by the Prophet Gygax (PBUH). Holmes/Moldvay/Mentzer is for babbies and 2e is for fake gamers.

>>53105545
Near as I can tell, 2e doesn't have a design ethos.
It's streamlined AD&D, plus stat creep.

If you're offering to extol some aspect of the design I'm missing, I would be happy to learn about it.

>>53105556
>05_OSR-Likes (Story Games and Other)
It's in the Trove, god knows why. We could ask TroveGuy~
...but /someone/ >>52996747 stripped contacting him out of the OP.

>>53105529
not talking about the overall system but the question in general, 5 min character creation. Torchbearer takes way more then 5 mins to make a dude, least for beginners and intermediate players.

But yes if you are looking for a good ol dungeon crawl simulator then Torchbearer is your system of choice, for narrative OSRish games.

>>53105600
>2e doesn't have a design ethos.
Classes tied to a central archetype (Warriors, Priests, Rogues, Mages)
Unique and flavorful Specialty Priests instead of Generic Clerics
Modular rules systems (NWPs, kits, psionics)

>>53105545
Because OD&D and 1e admirers have mastered a piece of software called Word. As a 2e admirer you might not have the aptitude to master this software. Impressed you managed to post on 4chan though.

>>53105653
>Classes tied to a central archetype
AD&D sort of had that. Not that it's even good.
>Modular rules systems
AD&D had that.

>Unique and flavorful Specialty Priests instead of Generic Clerics
Honestly forgot those splats were for 2e. I'll cede you one point.

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>>53105545
Keep the flame of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons™ 2nd Edition alive in your heart, amigo. It shall protect you from the ignorance of misguided grogs.

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>>53104395
The question is really "do you, as the GM, think it's more interesting to make it permanent or temporary"?

I'd go with permanent. Fuck it. Sacrifices mean something.

>>53105661
>I am a huge faggot, the post

>>53105600
>plus stat creep.
Which stat creep is this? It uses the same bonus tables from 1e.

>>53106316
NWPs, how often modules call for skill checks, etc.

>>53106337
>NWPs
You can't blame that one on 2e, those all exist in 1e as well. 2e just slaps them in core with a big Optional label on them.

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>>53104395
>make fighter and cleric
>get cleric to level 5
>get cleric to continuously write down scrolls of Sacrifice
>roll up more clerics
>clerics use scrolls to give fighter more hit points
>continue forever
>break game

>>53107040
>spider bites the fighter.
>rolled 4 for the saving throw.
>you have died
Unbroken. This isn't 5e where damage and hit points are everything.

Can someone point me towards some retroclones without classes?

>>53106337
>>53106653
I let NWPs succeed without a roll anyway unless there's real tension.

>>53107814
I'm pretty sure that's how you're supposed to use them.

>>53107843
The book does talk a lot about "with a sucessful [NWP] check...", so I wouldn't be so sure.

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Does anyone have the pdf of the recently released Diceless Dungeons game? Is it any good?

>>53107850
When a character uses a proficiency, either
the attempt is automatically successful, or the
character must roll a proficiency check. If the task
is simple or the proficiency has only limited
game use (such as cobbling or carpentry), a
proficiency check is generally not required. If the
task the character is trying to perform is difficult
or subject to failure, a proficiency check is
required. Read the descriptions of the proficiencies
for details about how and when each can
be used.

I think quite a bit would fall under the 'task is simple' section.

>>53059682
I might aswell write something for my map...
So far:
>1. >>53059911
>2. >>53060106 >>53099834
>3.
>4. >>53101623
>5. >>53060319
>6.
>7. >>53097468 >>53097635 >>53099834
>8. >>53060660
And:
>9. Fir, Walled City

Fir, Walled City -- A stone panopticon, ever-scryed from far away. A small town-experiment about survability in the wilderness. No trade routes, no guilds. The city doors are always open, outsiders can come and go freely. The walls are strong and enchanted, but space is tight - food is either grown indoors under Continous Light, harvested in the City Underground (same plan except ruined and repurposed and dark and fetid) or hunted by tamed griffons. Experiments for breeding animals underground always ends up in zombie plages or gel-cube overpopulation.
Led by Cecania Venetianer, half-inept 12th level MU, and a group of equally inept 3th level MUs that spend most of their time lazily scrying the vicinity.
The city guards are another thing - ruthless, metal-clad, wield stone swords (-2 to hit) and always carry 2 vials (gelatinous cube and green slime). They only subdue locals, never dipping the sword in a vial; against outsiders and serious threats they hurl the paralysis vials and dip directly onto green slime, or into slimified bodies. A body of clay golems takes care of the clean up, feeding the slimified bodies to the City Underground.
This is a martial city -- luxuries and exotic goods (including meat other than orc or rat) cost 2x.
There's no inns (nobody expects visitors) but plenty unoccupied houses. There's no churches, but outsider clerics aren't rare - nor cheap.
A crystal ball crowns each roof, allowing effective scrying -- only Cecania knows about this.
She is secretly working on building a small force of stone and iron golem to explore #7 and #2, and maybe destroy the city walls and escape.

>>53107193
>implying most people in these threads are ballsy enough to use save-or-die poison

>>53108518
There's still
>stat death
>level drain to zero
>a myriad of spells
>falling down a well with all your gear[ on you/spoiler]
to shut down a fighter of indetermined level with infinite hit points.

>>53108628
Sure, but now that he doesn't have to worry about dying in combat, he can focus on avoiding the rest of the stuff instead.

>>53103143
This is exactly what I needed. The reason why I'm unconcerned about variables is that they introduce themselves naturally during play. I was getting disheartened when people were like "IF AN OPAQUE OBJECT x IS IN FRONT OF YOU AND THE OBJECT n IS BEHIND DAT, YOU CAN'T SEE IT"

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Which races do you guys have as a mandatory option ?

Do you have any weird or uncommon races that you have included in your games ?

I'm also thinking of adding all the most intelligent and civilized "evil" races as character options. What do you guys think about having a Goblin / Kobold / Lizardman / Orc in the party ?

>>53109194
>Which races do you guys have as a mandatory option ?

Elves or dwarves I can leave, they're fairly generic. I typically fill them up with just humans, then add in some monster races running around here and there, occasionally as player choices.

>What do you guys think about having a Goblin / Kobold / Lizardman / Orc in the party?

Practically standard. More than half of the current party is kobolds.

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>>53105206
>>53105454
I didn't know there was still interest in this. This is the last version, idk what changed.
If you want to help, go read the introduction and treasure sections, report if it's accurate with the original (remember Expert overrides Basic)

>>53105600

>doesn't have a design ethos

I think this might be the most untrue statement ever made. Its biggest failing is a lack of playtesting making certain things a complete and utter mess(why is THAC0 the only thing that's roll high in the entire fucking game? Why are the useful tables in the books scattered to the four winds? etc.).

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I was browsing the OD&D forum today, as you do, and came across a listing of references to D&D in old Diplomacy fanzines.

Turns out players in 1975 were about as ridiculous as they are today:

>Ben Grossman is our resident alignment-changer. He began as Neutral, changed to lawful later. Then he stabbed Diller, a paladin: That turned him neutral again. He meditated in a monastery for a few months and turned lawful again. Last I heard he was busy trying to turn Edi Dirsan into a frog, but the Wand of Polymorph backfired and turned Ben into a toad. It remains to be seen what his alignment will be after that expedition.

The thread's here: http://odd74.proboards.com/thread/12278/od-content-dilpomacy-fanzines

It links to a vast collection of scanned zines - the quality of scan varies about as much as the quality of the original, but they're worth spending a few minutes skimming. Some are mostly focused on Diplomacy, others vary wildly - read a couple of Greg Costikyan's issues of GIGO and you'll get tips on hacking (cracking!) the gibson, socialist reinterpretations of Lord of the Rings praising Sauron and decrying Gandalf as an imperialist pig, a review of Monty Python and the Holy Grail that complains about the ending, and a write-up of some dungeon crawling. "I had recently changed my dungeon entirely, but several of the new Dungeon's levels were merely the old dungeon's levels redone. I frantically changed parts of the old Dungeon's levels, so the turbolifts and sinking room and stairways would be in the right places for my new dungeon, and was finished by 8." The actual expedition only gets a paragraph, but it's entertaining.

>>53105744

except that makes "draw life" overpowered as shit. The first time you roll a goblin encounter the cleric is gonna draw life as many times as he can, and end up with like twenty five extra hitpoints, permanently. Besides, if you're not playing a game where having low hitpoints is scary enough to make it a sacrifice, it's not really an OSR game, is it?

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How does "damage per attack" work when it lists number ranges like this that you can't roll on normal dice?

>>53109729
Takes a bit of math: look at the minimum number, roll that many dice, then look at the maximum number to figure out what kind of dice to do.

In this case it'd be 3d8: 3 dice, since minimum damage is 3, and 24/3=8.

>>53109597
>socialist reinterpretations of Lord of the Rings

http://existentialcomics.com/comic/175

>>53109729
>can't use two d10's and a d4

>>53109773
It's an old and classic genre.

>>53109597
>Turns out players in 1975 were about as ridiculous as they are today:
>socialist reinterpretations of Lord of the Rings

Trust me, y'all complain about college leftists today, it was much more prominent a thing back then.

>>53097803
Most of the stuff in SWN is OSR based tho. Just reskin it for fantasy.

Thread Theme:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYmWBUfqDus

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>>53094781

#6 - In a damp cave dug between the roots of a great tree lies Grendel's lair. The beast would be 8 feet tall if he were to stand on two legs. His fur is grey, but the moss and algae growing all over his body give it a green tinge. His claws are like ancient toenails, yellow and crusty, but are sharp as razors. His teeth are yellow as well, and some are missing. His eyes glow a pale green, like a cat's.
He is prideful, but has nothing to be proud of. He likes to boast, but has nothing to boast about. He is miserable, and the only thing that brings him joy is to see others miserable as well. He knows quite a bit about the surrounding area, but will be stingy with this information. If he is insulted he will be quick to pick a fight, and if he starts to lose he will be quick to run away. If the party bruise his massive ego he will stalk them, bellowing into the night to keep the party awake, erasing their tracks so they can't retrace their path if they get lost, and generally becoming a major nuisance.
In his lair is an assortment of trinkets looted from the bodies of unfortunate travelers, as well as a great heap of severed fingers and toes. He likes to check the dirt from under the nails for specks of gold dust from the river, and keeps the scrapings in a burlap sack.

I've been working on a setting inspired by John Gardner's Grendel

>>53108096
>>53111023
I've added these to my PDF; there's literally one location to go, so I think I'll save uploading it for then.

>>53109194
Added lycanthropes as a beast-man race, and created a race that basically uses their hit dice to roll their magic.

>>53094781
https://youtu.be/KDkj_QHOVrM

>>53111135
>a race that basically uses their hit dice to roll their magic.
Gives me an idea. Assuming a spell list where each level has the same number of spells, you could have a race/class which gains spells by rolling on the next spell level table whenever they level up.

Not sure what to fluff it as though, maybe mutations or unreliable sorcerous blood?

>>53110771
Wasn't that more to do with Vietnam happening and not because leftists are the only people who complain about things?

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What kind of artwork do your adventurers loot, sell, keep or ruin?

Do you ever draw inspiration from art, or throw your players into worlds drawn from art?

If you didn't see it, the Guggenheim released a bunch of art books for free: https://archive.org/details/guggenheimmuseum

>>53111207
Yeah but the New Left movement ended up being much broader than just the Vietnam protests.

Anyone here read through the Maze of Nuromen?

In the necromancer's study there is a frog in a jar. If it's opened, the frog will cause some damage and run away. But the party wizard decided she took the frog in for research, and never opened the jar: the frog's obviously been in that jar for centuries, perfectly preserved and alive and healthy.

What else could the frog do besides just run away? What campaign-bending secrets might it hold for the wizard to find?

>>53111268
Artist behind this anon's image post is Yayoi Kusama for anybody interested. She's done a lot of art in this vein, Obliteration Room is a pretty good one.

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>>53109194
>Which races do you guys have as a mandatory option ?
Oh, many. See: >>53088859 You have to roll for them though.

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>>53111349
The frog learned crude magical skills from watching the necromancer. It can teach them slowly, or if it escapes, will attempt to use them for its own gross purposes.

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>>53111268
There's a neat table here, http://angband.oook.cz/steamband/Treasure.pdfbut I think it's a little fiddly and not that interesting, so I'm working on my own.

I'm adding in treasures we don't think of as valuable now, but would be valuable in some settings. Reams of unspoiled vellum. A music box. A mirror the size of your hand.

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>>53111349
The frog absorbed residual spells. They're the leftover bits of a spell that aren't used when it's cast. Magical background radiation. If crickets and bribed, the frog can cast
-Syllable with Dead
-Cool Slightly
-Finger of Inconvenience
-Tip Dead

>>53094781
>>53111106

I've expanded my description of #2. Would it be possible to revise the text in the pdf with this, anon?


#2 is The Tungsten Tower Over the Magma.

A lake of lava smolders in between the forest to the south and the mountains to the north. A tower of tungsten lays buoyant in it, slowly sinking into an underground cave. A titan made of semi-molten rock lays sleeping by the lavabed.
Heated gnomes have set up an observatory at the top. They find and eat photons of far away stars. They know the movements of all lower celestial beings. They will tell you what the weather will be for all of the next month, if you help them find more tomes of forbidden astronomy.
The rocktitan keeps the tower from slowly sinking, but he has been put to sleep by imps who wish to have the tower sink down to their underground lavacave. If someone awakens the rocktitan and deals with the imps, the gnomes will reward them with a long-lasting lantern of starlight.
If the tower sinks into the lava, the imps will use it as a route to the forest in the south. The imps are interested in expanding their little piece of hell on earth, and will reward anyone helping them with safe passage through their caves. The caves continue on toward the flooded phoenix power plant to the west, and also extend down to the underdark. Many gemstones can be found in the caves, and the imps will allow their accomplices to take whatever they find lying around. They will not allow any mining to be performed, however.
The tower and lavacave are unpleasantly hot areas. Wearing armor will severely hinder one's ability to fight, flee, and stay conscious.

>>53109515
Cool! Will look it over when I get up tomorrow.

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>>53111653
>Would it be possible to revise the text in the pdf with this, anon?
Of course, just did it.

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>>53111763
You da man, anon

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Hey, anons, what if I wanted to make a game that was the Rules Cyclopedia but capped at level 30 (not 36), 6 human classes, had full level up rules for all of the classes (no Halflings maxing out at 8 and spending XP to get better weapon skills only, etc), and two/three classes each for the demihumans, comes with an included starter dungeon adventure in the back, etc?

>>53112295
I'd fully encourage you to do so and follow your progress to an extent.

>>53112375
Thanks. I'm only just now in the earliest stages and my group are still coming up with the general concepts, equipment listings, things like that. I'll try to keep people posted.

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This is cool rule, I don't think I've ever seen it in play before.

>>53112705
The second sentence is cooler. I don't know why people dislike/ignore it so much. I think of it like a cockney and a toff trying to have a conversation, the language is very different.

>>53112705
It's how I do languages because I can't get arsed to anything else. 2 in 6 chance of Common, otherwise no communication unless PCs know its specific language - and they all start with Common only and have to learn more like a MU learns spells.

>>53112755
I use alignment language as a declaration of intent. You can say one word without moving your lips! Amazing.
When you don't know their language, being able to say 'peace!' without dropping your weapon is quite an advantage.

Are there any good mystery adventures in OSR, or anything else with a strong rp element to it?

>>53107869
Bump for this!

>>53113252
>good mystery adventures in OSR
Nah.

>anything else with a strong rp element to it
Most of the 2e modules are RP-heavy.

>>53113252
>>53113381
Some of the Ravenloft ones might count as mystery modules. Your call on whether they're good or OSR.

Guys have any ideas/methods for stocking hexes? Personally, I prefer coming up with a few interests/factions/personalities for a region, connecting them and then stocking hexes with relevant adventure sites/points of interest to those relationships.

I'd like to rely on a bit of random generation for the "filler" hexes. I'll roll 2d100 and use two pools of simple visual aids, relate the two concepts together (they can be concrete or more abstract) and then make the franken-concept gameable & interesting.

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>>53109515
Skimmed through from page 1-110 (end of Treasure). I made several highlights and edit suggestions. I hopefully you can read them because I only made them, I made it in the PDF reader.

>>53109515
Very cool!
> Ascending AC
That's a shame though, it would be better if it were a true clone like Greyharp's single volume edition of OD&D

>>53113509
what is this about?

>>53113777
I kinda feel so too, even though I use ascending AC myself. Maybe tables and conversions for ascending AC could be part of the appendix, or maybe two versions could be made? I imagine that can be a pain though.

>>53109515
Maybe it's just me, but I would like average HP on the monsters section

>>53091184
Your fogetting his 90 billion polymorph spells.

>>53113866
>>53113777
Wouldn't be hard to do, guys. Both start off at 10 descending, 11 ascending and go from there (10-11, 9-12, 8-13, 7-14, 6-15, 5-16, 4-17, 3-18, 2-19, 1-20, 0-21, -1-22, etc)

There you go.

>>53114155
Or a single Shapechange.

>>53113777
The only reason to use descending AC is that converting everything to ascending is a pain in the ass.
The conversion is already done for you.

Though beyond the drop in authenticity, I suppose it also hurts use with other material.

>>53113866
I'd say, do a version just descending and a version with both in different colors (magenta for ascending, cyan for descending?)

>>53114155
Change Self, Phantasmal Force, and Fear cover that pretty nicely.
But mostly Change Self. He's probably got like 3 of it memorized.

What? About nothing in particular. The author wanted some proof reading so I made some notes.

>>53114211
Or you could do it like Swords & Wizardry does it, adding ascending AC in between brackets:
> AC 3 [16]

>>53114451
Even if you do that, you should use different colors.
Makes it easier to reference quickly.

I'm thinking about replacing Illlusionists with some other sort of arcane subclass, but what? Mages in general have such broad spell list that adding anything else just seems kind of pointless.

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Does anyone in this thread actually use descending AC in their campaign, or is this purely "but authenticity!"?

>>53114680
Jup, I sure do.

>>53114635
Necromancers are common and important. Add some submechanics about raising the dead and otherwise messing up with the bodies and you're good to go.

>>53114680
I used to switch it out for Ascending AC, but I got a DM's screen and use Descending now since the attack table is printed on it and it's faster for me to just glance at that in play.

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>>53114635
The perfect subclass has already been developed.

>>53114680
Descending AC is the default in my game of choice and in most adventure modules I've been using. It'd be too much trouble for its worth to switch away so I've never bothered.

>>53101898

Well, then the same is often true in 2e.

>>53114680
Yep. I know how to convert to ascending, when when the system works as-is why bother? Same goes for a system that has ascending AC, I'm not going to be some weirdo who tried to convert it to descending.

>>53115018
2e has far greater bonuses for high scores and penalties for low ones. It's very helpful to have as much of the former, and as little of the latter, as possible - unlike in B/X and its derivatives, where a tiny +1 or -1 here or there really doesn't matter much.

>>53108518

>Playing a game
>Fighter fails a save
>Starts gettin sick, losing con and strength
>He started wih 6 con
>Sweating
>Go on special quest to try to find someone who can cast Cure Disease
>He had like 2 con left, had to make promises we didn't even know if we could keep

Is that close enough?

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>>53114635
Necromancers, as other anons have said.

Or Summoners.
http://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/04/osr-class-summoner.html

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>>53114784
Reminder that in OD&D, it was taken for granted that any sufficiently powerful MU would be a necromancer.
On an (unrelated?) sidenote, cities are chokfull of undead.

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Any Anons out there with LotFP player core book? What do you think of pp. 134–143?

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>>53106220
>why do you still live like this?

>>53115468
It's fun but mostly useless. One of my players got that spell once and all it did was break the pace of the game.

>>53112705

Alignment languages are absurd but great fun, especially when you get players switching allignments frequently, so they keep losing and gaining languages.

>>53115626
I scrap the alignment languages because they are retarded. There are "rare," "ancient" or "underground" languages in my setting but nothing that automatically appears on your sheet or disappears.

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>>53106220
>we just don't know. attacks Poison the Paralyzed* *even Paralysis from the same attack

>well innoculated? all Poison Paralyzes.

>>53115771
>appears on your sheet

Dude, it appears in your brain as a gift from the cosmic powers. That's not retarded, that's awesome.

>>53112952
>I use alignment language as a declaration of intent.
I essentially do with, but a step in the other direction.
Unless someone shares an alignment "language," they lack the empathy to understand your intent. Period.
Nothing short of explicitly saying your intentions will get them across, and even that is subject to doubt.

>>53115133

A +1 matters a lot, though. Sure, they mght be BETTER in 2e, but its still securely a want. My current party has a fighter with 5 con, and my cleric has 13 wisdom as his highest stat.

Plus most stats max out at, like +2 or +3 at 18, only dex and strength go higher.

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>>53115811
>>well innoculated? all Poison Paralyzes.
Look at the table of saves.
That's for getting poisoned, not for poisoning.

Forever DM here. Okay, so I want to try 2e. My players are interested in a high lethality kind of game and we all want to see what it was like way back when. We're all pretty sick of not being challenged at all because of system mastery or what not.

Now, I know,
>Have you tried not playing DnD
And yes, we have. Several systems, in fact, that we all have fun with. Shadowrun, Dark Heresy, and Exalted being the main ones. But we want to see the old shit.

Still, I'm not entirely sold as the DM. Before I try a system, I like to know its strengths and weaknesses. What works, what doesn't, what's imbalanced in either direction, and what I should avoid. I know I'm asking for a lot of spoonfeeding here, but /tg/ has never failed me when it came to complaining endlessly about a system.

What questions should you ask your players about their class so they can roleplay it well?

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>>>53115824 trusting cosmic powers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8tKf3ilWHk

>>53116075
None. They can find their own answers.

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>>53116020
First, beware of the grogs who would degrade the majesty of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons™ 2nd Edition to advocate for their inferior editions.

As to your questions, it's best to keep things core-only at first. Weapon speed is generally disliked; some people dislike level limits but they're just plebs.

Non-Weapon Proficiencies carry a lot of undue stigma. For example, not having the Riding proficiency doesn't mean you can't ride a horse, it means that in combat or chases you can't guide the mount well.

Kits (which aren't in core) are flavorful but most be carefully reviewed on an individual basis. If you allow kits then every PC needs a kit.

>>53116075
That depends on the class and the edition to such an extent that without clarification it is impossible to answer in any useful way.

>>53116113
Who said anything about trusting them?

Even if meddling in the affairs of Law and Chaos is probably going to get you killed, their gifts tend to be pretty cool.

>>53116171
>If you allow kits then every PC needs a kit.

As a player (and more often than not, DM) of 2e, I still don't quite understand this. What does it really matter if someone has a kit and someone else doesn't, when kits vary wildly from flavor (Peasant Hero, Adventurer) to complete class overhauls (all bard kits)? If everyone has a kit, and the former isn't separated from the latter, why forced to take anything from the former at all?

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>>53116236
Ideally, your DM should be making sure that powerlevels of kits match. Any kitted class is at least slight upside compared to the vanilla version so that where the "all or nothing" advice (which is in the 2e books) comes in.

>>53116020

Be careful with your players, I recommend having them roll their stats in front of you, as there's a high temptation to cheat stats, especially in a high lethality game, and having to roll well enough to be a certain class is a big part of 2e. If you're not confident planning a 2e campaign, there's some campaign books you can start from floating around, ask and you should be able to find them.

Oh, biggest thing is, don't feel the need to give players their rewards right away, leave them for the right places, and remember that most treasure stays in the monster's lairs. Yes, it lists lots of gold, magic items, and pieces of artwork as potential loot for goblins, but that's for clearing out the TRIBE, not a random group.

>>53116330
True enough, but classes aren't really all that balanced to begin with, with thieves especially being much weaker than the rest of the classes. Kits complicate this and may shaken the balance issue a little more, but probably nothing you couldn't handle as it is. Also, all classes have their own roles: what does it matter to the wizard if the berserker can fight harder than a regular fighter?

>>53116171
Okay. Are there any class imbalances I should know about? Also, what books are the kits in, the "Complete" books?

>>53116335
I trust my players. And if they do cheat... Well, I tend to be very suspicious of amazing runs of luck.

>>53116020
>Have you tried not playing DnD
This generally refers tobthw d20 syatem, which OSR very definitely is not.

>and we all want to see what it was like way back when.
It was mostly homebrew, with lots of actual rules getting excised.

To take a few steps back, OD&D says "pencil notes into the rulebooks," "don't mail us for clarifications, just decide on something," and "if somebody wants to play a Balrog, make it work."

>What works, what doesn't, what's imbalanced in either direction, and what I should avoid.
Like half the combat rules are whack. NWPs are unapologetically awful. XP for GP is listed as "optional," for some ill-concieved reason.

Honestly, you should start with B/X. At least to start with. It's got tighter gameplay and is easier to learn.

>>53116335
>>53116368
>not rolling stats in front of the GM

I've played for years and never even considered this to be an option. Are you now telling me it's in fact the -default- way things are done?

>>53116421
>This generally refers tobthw d20 syatem, which OSR very definitely is not.

Are... Are you having a seizure? Do you require assistance?


>Honestly, you should start with B/X. At least to start with. It's got tighter gameplay and is easier to learn.

Who to the what now?

>>53116368
They're spread across all manner of splats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternative_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_classes#Advanced_Dungeons_.26_Dragons_2nd_edition

>>53116422
>Are you now telling me it's in fact the -default- way things are done?
Once upon a time, it was assumed the referee would roll your stats behind their screen.

>>53116461
I apprdzsitebthe co verb.
But I'm acyually having a phonepost.
>Who to the what now?
Moldvay Basic Set and Cook Expert Set.

>>53116422
>Are you now telling me it's in fact the -default- way things are done?

Oh, hell, no. The problem with the honor system is that sooner or later you get to find out which of your friends is a dishonorable munchkin. And then you're forced to either confront him about it and risk hard feelings in the group, or let him get away with it and risk hard feelings in the group.
Better to nip that shit in the bud before any suspicion starts to sour things.

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>>53116550
I... Uh, thanks anon! That was... Enlightening. I'll just... Look for the fabled Cook Expert Set.

>>53116020

2nd edition differs most from older editions partly because it makes a lot of formerly core stuff optional, or in splatbooks (half-orcs and assassins being possibly the most notorious example).
A big strength (outside of sheer options, which is a catch-22) is probably rules centralization. No to-hit matrixes, replaced with thac0 which is very easy to use. All optional rules are in one place, relatively speaking, though the dmg is a lightweight.
It's my system of choice, though I like it because it's that turning point between true old-school grit (sword, sorcery, wealth, and lethality) and new school powers and options (mage and fighter specialization, thief skill points, custom cleric faiths). It's absolutely bloated if you take everything as gospel. It's much better suited to finding the direction and style you want and applying pieces as appropriate, especially if you make/use a setting where the kit system allows for good flavor.
And make sure you're well educated on dart-specialized fighters.

>>53116650
So you're saying it's DnD GURPs?

>>53116650
>And make sure you're well educated on dart-specialized fighters.

By which he means, they look like awesome machineguns but are actually pretty worthless: due to the poor range and the way multiple attacks work in 2e (everyone does their first attack, then their second attack, etc.), the dart specialist will only get to throw one before everyone gets in melee.

It's actually one of the few "trap options" 2e provides.

>>53116695
Only if you use Player's Option: Skills & Powers.

>>53116716
Which you shouldn't do.

>>53116368

Kits are in class, race, And setting handbooks. Some are very powerful and require strong dm interaction to make their drawbacks meaningful (myrmidon is a popular example).

In terms of class balance, in my experience, the classes fluctuate a lot. The experience tables per class very, but not uniformly (at around level 9-10 wizards suddenly bump and level up faster than fighters), and with each class having specific extra xp rewards things can vary on a campaign-by-campaign basis.
Your mileage may vary, But in my group games the general consensus is that fighters are great early and then plateau (unless you really play up the small army they receive) right after wizards start being more than a handful of support spells. Popular opinion seems to place the thief as the most inferior class, But in our experience clerics seem to limp along without the stealth skills or combat expertise (though adventuring without one is still foolhardy, and any early shortcomings can be mitigated by customising them with the included rules).Thief backstab and custom skill points make them pinch hitters and play-makers in the right game, but seem to do better in urban games than crawls.

>>53116737
>the S&P Psionics system is so mechanically questionable that it becomes an optional sub-system for an optional system

JUST FUCK MY MTHAC0 UP FAMILIAR

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>>53116611
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46btEgKmCTo

>>53116550
I checked the trove for B/X but didn't really catch them anywhere. Are they not in there or am I not looking in the right folders?

>>53116695

In the sense that it lived along enough with so much material that lots is out there. But don't use the character-point system. It's a convoluted mess that throws balance out worse than the game already ignores it. Though to some that's part of the charm.

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Today I will remind them.

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>>53116837
Did you just put your post in the name box? I'm not sure what's going on anymore!

Is there an osr with free form classes and races?

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>>53116851
08_TSR → 02 Basic D&D → '81 Basic Rules - Moldvay (Bx)

>>53116891
I don't know, this one's actually appropriate enough.

Like I never took the racial class limitations or level caps as some kind of a cosmic power that simply cannot be overcome, but rather a general impression: in this example, for instance, there are no half-orc wizards around in the general sense, and if you meet one (or play one) then it's special by default.

>>53116891
>>53116913
>>53116924
>>53116984
You're preaching to the choir here, honestly. I dare you to go post this in /pfg/.

>>53116991
Oh, so it's the basic DnD, not Advanced.

>>53103143
GOAT. I came in late here but thanks for giving the real answer instead of just dissing the guy's desire for a more naturalistic hexcrawl. You're the Anon, Anon.

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>>53117011
I think they're too busy ERPing to care, although I'll try to post >>53117005 there once the thread 404s.

>>53117005
>Take heart, Bill, you're wrong

The poor fools. Did they know? Could they have known? As someone who grew up with 3e and 3.5... Reading that makes me cringe.

>You might as well kill yourself, Bill, you're absolutely right

>>53117005 >>53117049
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGk2jSabED4

>>53117018
The Basic and eXpert sets are part if the Basic Product Line, yes.

>>53116832
And then they made it a core part of Gamma World 4e.

>>53117146
I would have lived a richer, fuller life, had you never told me.

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What's the verdict on Machinations of the Space Princess?

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>>53109194
I've been thinking of using the canein from BFRPG as a standard option.
Barring that, halflings as rabbitfolk.

>What do you guys think about having a Goblin / Kobold / Lizardman / Orc in the party?
Sure. Just because there's evil goblins and kobolds in dungeons doesn't mean there can't be lawful and civilized goblins and kobolds out there.

>>53117280
My personal favourite of the space OSRs. Heavy Metal flavour (gives me strong Melting Pot/HM2K vibes, really), and a simple system for creating whatever bizarre alien species you want? Give me all of that.

>>53117368
How's the system generation tables?

>>53117414
>system generation tables
What is with this system generation fetish dominating the thread all of a sudden.

>>53109597
>Evan Jones... well we all know about Evan Jones. His unpleasantness extends to D&D, unfortunately for all concerned.
Loud KEK

Weird how they already had That Guys in 1976 and still fuckloads fo nerds refuse to just stop inviting the giant faggots to play.

>>53117605
Playerbases were much smaller and you couldn't play over the Internet. You just had to deal with them.

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>>53117497
>What is with this system generation fetish dominating the thread all of a sudden.

>>53117617
>Playerbases were much smaller
Are you high? Back then every faggot in nerddom seems to have played, tons of campaigns like the Rythlondar game had like 20 players. That quote itself comes after the writer described like eight other players. I defy you to tell me eight isn't a big enough group.

Your argument makes more sense for current gamers, ironically.

What is the point of the 3e posting?

>>53109194
Honestly my options are vast for player races but they need to be justifiable being in the adventure. I'll allow #541 outcast mongrelman from the nearest giant city, sure. Usually the PC's sort out what makes their mongrelman stand out above the others. I'm not implying this is easy for everyone though. As awesome as my wild elf idea is, he doesn't fit every mission, group, campaign, etc.
I'll allow just about any race. I've custom made races that were options in my game that no other dm at the time was doing, which attracted a few new players. I allowed Minotaur PC's, lizardman, kobold, algahai, goblins, half ogres, ogre magi, lycanthropes, centaurs, wemics, bugbears, a weird home brewed humanoid displacer beast that was pretty awesome. We played council of wyrms back in the day so dragons and half dragons (broken af).

>>53117414
Decent. Comes with a d100 table of plot hooks and a d50 table of interesting planetary features.

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>>53117907
To impart the knowledge of the dark times.

>>53117414
Decent. Comes with a d100 table of plot hooks and a d50 table of interesting planetary features, along with the more normal stuff like star type, planet type, and government.

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>>53117907
Not liking the d20 system is a board wide thing, and the writing on the walls was written on OUR walls.

>>53116990
>free form
maybe donjon?

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Do any one you have more large regional maps like this?

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>>53118178
Look up Wilderlands of High Fantasy. It's got sixteen awesome regional maps on it.

>>53117005
Poor fuckin' Bill. Gets me every time.

>>53117907
Wondering that too. I'm not ready for the 3e apologist brigade.

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>>53118375
This track came on as soon as I opened the image, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS-gbqbVd8c

I'd like to point out that 3E was built under a very different design philosophy than past D&D games. It was designed to do a different thing. You can be mad that the new Volkswagen beetle is a shallow plastic mockery of the old beetle, and you might be right, but they're different cars designed in different eras, and they do different things. Worse and better don't really apply, unless it's in reference to the design goals, and even then, it's really difficult to establish a consensus on whether or not something failed.

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>>53109515
If you're OK with spreading a monster table to two columns (Dragon), these other two could use it.

>>53113509
>player being careful no to read the referee section
Cute!

>>53118528
That was quick: >>53118537

>>53118537
>Worse and better don't really apply
Except, you know the fact that 3e is shit. And 3e is the real shit twinkie of the D&D franchise. If the shilling that the designers are doing consists of YOUR CHARACTERS WILL BE SO MUCH MORE POWERFUL then they're not making a D&D game. They fucking knew they were bastardizing D&D but Adkinson wanted his D&Dollars so they were fine with it.

>>53118684
Yeah, I see that & the point on 4e in that screen cap is bullshit. That poster should stick to tv trope land.

>>53118950
Not to defend 3e, but it takes less (and more obvious) excision and kludge to make workable than AD&D does.

>>53118993
It's strawman aside; I've never seen a more perfect explanation of why I don't like d20 system

Do you guys think retro clones are at its maximum? that no innovation can be made without it becoming shit?

Because what thing can be added to OSR? adding stuff from newer editions would just be against the main ideology of simplicity

>>53119134

It's been close on to forty years and people still haven't exhausted the possibilities, and continue to come up with interesting new things. I wouldn't count it dead yet.

>>53119134
>Do you guys think retro clones are at its maximum?

One can only hope.

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>>53119134
> Do you guys think retro clones are at its maximum?
Some wish there were fewer retro clones. E.g. http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=76732

They won't get their wish.

>>53119134
>Do you guys think retro clones are at its maximum?
No, but I haven't seen a good one in years.

>Because what thing can be added to OSR?
Interesting rulings, better abstractions, and more content.

For all the crap LotfP gets >Raggi, it has good content.
Mostly by Patrick Stuart, go follow his blog.

This thread doesn't really do OSR justice, but /tg/ doesn't really do RPGs justice. So no surprise there.
Content belongs on blogs, and discussions belong on moderated and archived forums.

stupid question: is SWN in the OSR mega? or where i can find it?

>>53119134
Honestly, OSR needs to have a redesign from the ground up. The OSR playstyle is fantastic, and the fact that the rules support and reaffirm most of the narrative is great, but there are huge sacred-cows that exist that need slaughtering, and not the normal ones like alignment.

Something I've been toying with recently is the idea of removing the "mental" stats. Most of OSR is based on player-driven action, but all of the character's physical stats are derived from the dice rolled at the beginning. That alone would be a place to start, but I haven't really seen any other games that have the guts to do this.

>>53119510
well with this in mind you could just grab another system and add the OSR tropes

>>53119565
Other systems don't really handle OSR tropes as well as one built for OSR, I find. Plus, those stats are only the tip of the iceburg, so to speak. Or at least of the problems I have with most systems.

>>53119501
03_OSR Games → Sine Nomine Publishing → Stars Without Numbers
I also see two SWN splats in _Inbox

If ever you can't find something, google it to look for related terms.

Also of note, it's free on drivethruRPG
>http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/86467/Stars-Without-Number-Free-Edition

>>53119591
So you want to leave everything to players knowledge and charisma?

>>53119301
better abstractions?

>>53119607
thank you!

>>53119301
>Content belongs on blogs, and discussions belong on moderated and archived forums.
Rec me some good forums and blogs

>>53119787
Rpg net :^)

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>>53119670
Among many other examples, it's my biggest complaint with AD&D's combat.
Loads of additions/changes were made without any considerations for how combat works.
If you put too much weight /against/ your abstractions, then deform and stop making sense.

>>53119648
Why not? It's how most RPGs wind up being run anyways. The game world has a filter on it for physical stats of your characters, IE you can only carry so-and-so weight due to X str. But there's no discernible filter on the mental stats other than the perception of those at the table, and most of the time, it's easy to ignore. Combine that with the fact that there is no way for a person to roleplay a person more charming or intelligent than themselves other than through the roll of a die means that in my opinion the mental stats are more and less a shoddy excuse to for the casting classes to have stats tied to them.

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>>53119787
>good forums
Alehouse and odd74 are pretty big.
Unfortunately, they're not big on Bx.

> and blogs
Every OSR blog ever links to every other OSR blog on their sidebar.
Dive in and click on links, I guess. These can get you started:

http://falsemachine.blogspot.com/
http://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/
http://gloomtrain.blogspot.com/

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>>53116461
2e has a decent bit more options than B/X. There are more classes, more spells, more weapons, and so forth. The thing is, most of the additional material is either derivative, or it just isn't as well executed. Additionally, even the stuff the systems have in common (spells they share, for instance) is often made more complicated with no real payoff. And then there are extra restrictions and such that do little to make the game more fun.

So for what it does, Basic is definitely the better game. It's just a question of whether Basic does enough for you. With that said, it's pretty easy to use Basic as your base system and selectively import shit from AD&D. (In fact, Labyrinth Lord's Advanced Edition Companion is more or less Basic's simpler core system with AD&D's options added on top, though it still adds in too much of AD&D's fiddly bullshit for my taste).

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Hey /osrg/, I wrote up a methodology to create small dungeons using giant Sea-Beasts that would swallow the party. Basically it's raiding a massive whale for the ships he has swallowed over the years. Stats are written out for the GLOG system. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

>>53119830
AD&Ds added/removed a lot of stuff without thinking why?

>>53119510
I just have one mental stat (wits), but I make it clear it doesn't influence character behavior, at least insofar as a player's control over the character extends. It's just there to give me something to roll against when I want something to roll against (where it's more or less intelligence and wisdom rolled into one, with charisma relegated to DM fiat based on the character's level, personality, background and so forth).

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>>53119134
well for one thing there's always room for exploring how the OSR framework works in genres outside of the standard Fantasy array, some of my favorite works in the movement do so, like Weird Adventures here for example

Are there any things that absolutely should be in the "archetypical" OSR D&D dungeon?

>>53119510
> INTELLIGENCE
> Intelligence is the measure of a character's knowl-
> edge prior to the start of play. Intelliigence does not
> measure a character's memory or ability to solve
> puzzles; it is the player's wits that must be used in
> these situations.
>
> WISDOM
> Wisdom is the measure of a character's connection
> to the greater universe, and the strength of the char-
> acter's spirit. Wisdom does not affect the character's
> ability to make good decisions or judge situations
> or characters; it is the player's own judgements which
> must be used in these situations.

>>53120115
i would like to see a cyberpunk OSR game.

>>53120207
Which would be the main classes?

Apparently the kickstarter backer preview for the new ACKS book came out today. Anyone gotten a look at it?

>>53120207
i would like to see all you "i would like to see a ____ OSR game" shitters do a bit of research before you post. There are several already.

>>53120225
Just nick the ones from CP2020.

>>53120201
Your point?

>>53120286
I think anon means the mental stats are generally useless seeing as how most players won't solve problems how their brutally stupid pc should, but how their less stupid, actual selves would

>>53120286
The fact that it has to be spelled out what derives from the stat and what derives from the player's own mental abilities is bit awkward, but do these stats need slaughtering? At best you are cleaning up a bit of cruft, and they are also used for NPCs.

>>53120274
is there a dungeons and dragons OSR?

>>53120274
Is "Dead Channel Sky: An OSR Cyberpunk game" one of them?

Hack into the mainframe and download the 7 page pdf here: https://img.fireden.net/tg/image/1456/75/1456758838679.pdf

It is everything I ever wanted a cyberpunk game to be.

>>53120044
There are loads of AD&D rules that modify numbers without considering what those numbers represent.
Weapon Speeds immediately spring to mind, but if I had the book handy I could read off many examples.

>>53120394
That's one of the large problems with them. They aren't taken into account for a large majority of players, and even when they are, it's either 100% oddly subjective, or it turns into a dick waving contest. "My character is X points smarter than you, so I should just win!" or something like that.

>>53120414
>but do these stats need slaughtering?
Absolutely. Why is there a number on the sheet that has no consistent representation of the character? All of the physical stats have hard components and rules representing EXACTLY what it means to each character. Having X str means you can lift THIS much. Having Y dex means you are this accurate. Having Z con means you gain this much health.

cont.

>>53120911
For some reason, 4chan wouldn't let me post this as one unit.

Cont:

Having X int means what exactly? Who defines how smart the character is? Each table is going to interpret it vastly differently from the next person. There are rules that interact with it, such as "languages learned", but then beyond that what are the limits of this character opposed to the next?

There are other problems with it too that arise naturally from having stats like those on a character. Such as what I believe to be poor role play. When has a character with low mental stats ever REALLY benefited the role play at a session, exactly? "Me Throg, me am dum. Me sit in corner while you talk to fancy noble pants, cause otherwise Throg kill fancy pants at the slightest provocation". At best, you MIGHT get "Throg am dum, but Throg see party have woes. Throg give speech that showcase logic of 5 year old to remind party that child like wonder is best thought". Before he goes back to sit in the corner of most role play encounters. Removing the mental stats places more control on the players behalf of how social he wants to play the character and get in touch with the role play aspect of the game without having to play the retard-strong trope.

>At best you are cleaning up a bit of cruft
Isn't that a valid reason on it's own?

>are also used for NPCs.
Why do your NPCs have stats, especially outside of combat?

>>53120201
>Intelligence is the prime requisite for magical types. Both fighters and Clerics can
> use it in their prime requisite areas (strength and wisdom repectively) on a 2 for
> 1 basis. Intelligence will also effect referees' decisions as to whether or not certain
> actions would be taken, and it allows additional languages to be spoken.

>Wisdom is the prime requisite for Clerics. It may be used on a 3 for 1 basis by
> fighters, and on a 2 for 1 basis by Magic-Users, in their respective prime requisite
> areas. Wisdom rating will act much as does that for intelligence.

>>53121014
>>53120056

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>>53118684
I know - I tried to write as fast as I could.
>>53118950
>Except, you know the fact that 3e is shit.

I think you're using an overly broad definition of "fact".

3E is terrible for my purposes. Absolutely terrible. I can imagine running a game using it, but only for very, very specific purposes. Maybe training purposes, or a travelogue through the different editions.

But that doesn't make it "objectively bad" or "wrong". I think paint cans make lousy shoes, but if I had to transport nails, I'd rather use a paint can than a boot.

And if I order shoes online and I'm promised awesome shoes, and what arrives are paint cans, I'd be right to be annoyed. But that doesn't mean paint cans are evil or wrong or that I should forswear them forever.

>>53119510
>Honestly, OSR needs to have a redesign from the ground up.

Pic related. Go for it though.

>>53121302
As a programmer, that picture amuses me, but in terms of games, there's rarely a case where more is worse.

I will go for it.

>>53121274
>>53121302
>I think paint cans make lousy shoes, but if I had to transport nails, I'd rather use a paint can than a boot
This is one of the most retarded analogies I have ever seen, and I've been in /v/ food analogy threads.