/osrg/ OSR General

>forgot to remove the (embeb_

WHATEVER

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>>52996747
>simple adventuring tool and a non-traditional way to use it?

I always pack a 5lb iron ball. So many uses for a 5lb iron ball.

A bar of soap is good too. Lots of uses for soap.

cHALK DUST.
dETECTIONG AIRFLOW, ALSO POCKET SAND.

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>>52996747
This old school RPG has stats for rocks can you name it.

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>>52996786
Also climbing.

Has anyone tested out the climbing rules in Veins of the Earth? Thoughts?

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Session 3 of Tomb of the Serpent Kings is almost ready to post. In the meantime, here's the current party.

>>52996928
What the Hell happened to the other frog? What did I miss?

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>>52996942
Tito had one leg and one toe cut off and was sent back to town a shirtless, useless, and very annoyed wreck of a toadling. His first ever adventure ended in disaster.

Luckily, Spackles, Illusionist Wizard and (former) King of the Goblins (it's complicated, you'll see) joined the party. He has 4 HP.

Interesting fact; it's possible to die during character generation in the GLOG system. Your starting HP is your Constitution - 4. Your roll 3d6 for stats, so it's plausible to start with -1 or 0 HP.

This is a feature, not a bug.

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>>52997012
>>52996928
And here's the writeup.

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/05/osr-game-session-3.html

The players are proving to be as resourceful and treacherous as I could have ever hoped.

>>52997385
>and treacherous
Have they learned about passing you notes yet?

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>>52997525
Nope. To teach them the Sin of Metagaming and the Power of In Character Action, I'm trying to ensure that any "secrets" are open ones, and then gently chiding them for not remembering that their characters don't know stuff they know as players.

We'll get there though. Got to get the fundamentals down.

>>52990988
I'm changing the lower bound of my (>>52991111) prediction to the 18th.
They won't even be in the dungeon for most of the next session, it seems.

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>>52997624
Sorry man. :( I do my best, but like I said, it only inconveniences you guys, not me.

Luckily, Session 4 is done (I know, I'm slow), so once I post that we'll be all caught up, and the PCs will be exploring the dungeon again no later than the 15th of May.

>>52997715
No need to be sorry*. We would have to be pretty entitled shits to feels upset with you.
We're experiencing despondence, not disappointment.

*You actually don't need to feel sorry under /any/ circumstance.
As the adage goes, "I don't care if you're sorry, I do care if you do it again."
Purely a tangent and not at all a complaint. To reiterate: You are doing fine, keep at it.

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>>52997829
Oh good, I'm glad you feel that way. I'll just delete my draft of the Animist Wizard post. It was going to be lousy anyway. Why bother, right?
That's sarcasm, by the way.
I don't have a draft.

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Where do level 1 Magic-Users pick up their trade? How learned are they?

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>>52998146
Elementalists and Orthodox Wizards go to Wizard College.

They spend the rest of their lives paying off Wizard Student Loans, which are nondischargable, extremely expensive, and very inconvenient.

Most of the other Wizard schools get trained in a master-apprentice style. Some people just get spare spells embedded in their brains and have to seek special training to get them to leave. At that point, they're 'natural" wizards.

Level 1 wizards have some book-learning, but little practical knowledge. Their grasp of theory depends on their school. Animists and Elementalists are immensely practical. Illusionists are all theory and weird science.

>>52998146
Considering the fact that you can always just roll up a new one when the last one died, I just imagine level 1 magic-ursers being the equivalent of some script kiddie.

They have to be reasonably common, some village idiot who managed to spend enough time over a weird tome to get the spell to enter their head.

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>>52997829
>>52997715

In the meantime here's a compilation of both dungeon levels that've been posted so far in a summarized PDF format. Repost from old thread

>>52998734
This format looks really neat. Are you using a generator or do you have a process written down? I know this has been asked ~3 threads ago but at the time I didn't think I'd have a need for it I now have a need for it

>>52998907
Thanks. It's word, two column format. I use the Modlvay b/x font Souvenir-Light and stole the writing style from Stonehell (very minimal language, listing rather than prose). The font I think is part of what does it, so try it out!

>>52999318
Also the maps are made with this:
https://campaignwiki.org/gridmapper.svg

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so a couple threads ago an anon had an idea for a setting that sounded pretty neat to me; >>52926502, a lot of the stuff it needs is covered in some form or another by existing OSR content, but one element could possibly use some attention, the idea calls for Mecha to be a prominent and PC accessible component of the setting & rules, so how would you go about handling them, especially with the following caveats;

1. no referencing to the existing Mecha/Power Armor rules present in Stars Without Number, Godbound, or Colonial Troopers*

2. needs to be usable from level 1, and be a viable/practical choice at that**

3. unlike rule 1 I'm not restricting pre-existing firearms rules, so you don't have to reinvent the wheel there if you don't want to(personally I'd suggest Fantastic Heroes & Witchery's rules on this matter)

4. this is more optional but it'd be interesting to see a character's class have some sort of tangible effect on their mech

5. basic assumption(albeit not set in stone) is that most mecha range between 9 feet tall at the short end, and somewhere between 25 & 30 feet tall at the largest, with most hovering between 12 and 15 feet or so


*nothing against these rules for the most part, I just want to see what /osrg/ can come up with

**interpret this as you will(like perhaps at level 1 most characters can't afford to own one fully, and are instead renting/leasing one from the local nobility, so the unit is lower spec and you can't do much customizing compared to one you'd properly own once you get some levels and money under your belt)

>>52993031
Drizzt first showed up as early as 1st edition AD&D. It's all a matter of how you fluff it.

>>52999318
Neat! Also found a typo:
>Attacks patterns (Use on per round):
>on

>>52999398
I just don't get it. You want a game that has the qualities of high lethality, quick character creation, focus on mostly avoiding fights and instead sneaking around and grabbing what you can get. At the same time you want a game where the players are in nigh-indistructible, highly customizable and loud battlemachines. I have a really hard time picturing this.

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>>52999435
Oh, yeah thanks. I also realized that this landscape stuff will be very difficult to print as a booklet because apparently the pdf reader I use doesn't support splitting a landscape page into two portraits to reorder.

I changed it to full A4s and just made the font a little bigger, so I can print it as A5 booklets and test play.

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>>52999497
>You want a game that has the qualities of high lethality, quick character creation, focus on mostly avoiding fights and instead sneaking around and grabbing what you can get.
eh of those qualities, only the quick character creation is one I actually like at all in relation to the OSR, I've given my reasons for my interest in the OSR framework in previous threads multiple times so I'm not going to repeat myself at the moment about it

>At the same time you want a game where the players are in nigh-indistructible, highly customizable and loud battlemachines. I have a really hard time picturing this.
eh I'm not picturing them as being all that durable, like sure a regular person on the ground isn't likely to be able to do much to a mech if they don't have the right weaponry and/or magic, but when fighting monsters or other Mecha they'd only be slightly more durable than a regular person(and that mostly because a mech can usually still somewhat function even after losing a limb or two), and I still find the OSR movement's general fear of customization to be ridiculous

overall I'm thinking less Gurren Lagaan and more Mobile Suit Gundam 08th MS team in regards to how the mecha would function(well that and the series in the pic in my previous post Panzer World Galient, and the one in this pic, Aura Battler Dunbine)

>>52999605
Is /osrg/ the only place you're writing about this? I'd feel like you'd get much more help in threads that talk about rules-lite and science fiction. The fact that you kind of don't want this game to be OSR in many ways kind of makes it hard to help you.

>>52996747
What;s this Lamentations of the Duck princess thing I heard about last thread?

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>>52999646
the thing is I love OSR rules(with some tweaking), but I hate most of the OSR philosophy as it just doesn't align very well with what I find fun about RPG's(part of that might be because a lot of it leans towards Roleplaying and I'll freely admit I have almost no skill at all for that, nor does pretty much anyone I've ever played with)

also outside of the OSR I generally hate most rules-lite systems I've encountered, as most of them are incredibly bland and boring, especially in regards to combat(which is one of my favorite parts about RPG's)

How "gonzo" do you guys tend to go with your worlds? I've notice a pretty close correlation between OSR design and "weird fantasy" settings.

>>52999503
have you tried adobe editor?
you might be able to torrent an old one.
are you sure you wouldn't be better off adding an image into microsoft word or libre office?

>>52999664
I'm also curious about this.

>>52999705
>are you sure you wouldn't be better off adding an image into microsoft word or libre office?

What do you mean? I'm using word 2016 for the editing.

>Honestly, the whole OSR is a sham. There's all this "roots of the hobby" and "RPG history" bullshit bandied when it's really just people reacting against 3.PF/4e. Not to mention the "oldschool" definition is a load of bullshit. The Fantasy Trip had point-buy attributes in 1977 but this isn't considered "REAL oldschool" by D&Ddrones because T$R didn't publish it. Yet somehow BECMI from 1983 is "REAL oldschool" because of the holy imprimatur of T$R, Inc. Then there are the dozens of "new" OSR games that are just lazy copypastes of B/X with houserules but which the OSR hivemind heralds as though the solution to the problem of how to REALLY play D&D. And that's not even touching the endless bitching about rule X or Y while refusing to look outside of D&D/retroclones for possible solution.

>>52999828
>inb4 someone uses that retarded "but the OSR started because people wanted to re-examine D&D" That shit was over 10 years ago, there's nothing left to re-examine, the "philosophers" of the OSR beat every dead horse they could find. Nor should the origins of a movement prohibit its evolution. Instead we get shit like OD&D IN SPACE! OD&D WITH CAPES! B/X WITH HORROR! B/X BUT WITH A MODERN SETTING! B/X BUT IN INDIA! because fanboys can't bear to leave their little D&D pond.

>>52999834
Nice meme, but have you considered; any and all D&D divorced from the design philosophy of its hex-crawl sandbox roots is shit

>>52999864
This but unironically

>>52999864
>It's roots are in wargames, not tacked on, shilled shit like Wilderness Survival. Warhammer in its later editions is more true to the roots of the hobby than some namby-pamby "oh I'm scared of the dark like a bitch" cave exploration like Veins of the Earth or 'lets all look a graph paper ad masturbate to horny elves shit' you people spew out in different (((setting))) colors.

>>52999900
Nice meme but have you considered: if you're not playing D&D as a hexcrawl you are actually, literally playing the game wrong and should probably play a system actually built for whatever you're trying to turn D&D into.

>>52999664
Seconding this

>>52999935
This but unironically.

>>52999900
Who are you quoting?

>>52999959
I tacked another part onto the pasta to reflect more recent publications.

I think adding the ((())) was a bit too far, didn't keep the timelessness of it.

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>>52998734
>>52999503
hey guys, I wrote some text for a really trick dungeon entrance that rewards players for paying attention.

Maybe you could make a map of it?

Question, not necessarily only to
>>52999503
What does MI mean at the end of the monster statblock?

On that note, is stonehell in the trove? I can't find it.

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>>52998734
>>52999503
hey guys, I wrote some text for a really tricky dungeon entrance that develops reading comprehension and rewards players for paying attention.

Maybe you could make a map of it?

>>53000301
>>53000790
slight correction, sorry.

>>52999417
He wasn't a snowflake back then, though.

>>53000830
Then what defines snowflake?

He stood out like a sore thumb when compared to all the other generic dwarf fighters and human wizards, he had actual personality, a plotline, and perhaps most importantly in OSR context, plot armor. He wasn't even that well written, even back then.

What do all the modern Pathfinder Mary Sues have that he does not?

>>53000854
Him not being the main character in the early novels helps a bunch. That and not having the eight million feats of world-saving he accumulates by the latter ones.

>>53000915
Fair enough.

So to snowflake an OSR character, all you'd need to do would be to keep him alive for several dungeons that actually have some world-threatening evil in them? His friends die but he survives, becoming more a main character than the replacement characters of the other players, and developing both an in-universe reputation and a whole bunch of angst over all his dead companions?

It'd be more difficult than in later editions, I suppose, due to the more personal scope and higher lethality, but I can't see how you couldn't manage that. I mean the OSR game I'm currently running has characters with developed and distinct personalities, and it's actually drawing dangerously close to plot, so it could end up going this way if only one of them survives.

>>52996818
I've got nothing. It's obviously towards the crunchy end, but it's not any of the more involved retroclones I can think of. It is familiar-looking though. Wait... it's not in the D&D family, is it? I don't think it's GURPS, so I'm gonna go with RuneQuest. Boy, you're screwed in terms of weapon selection if you end up with a below-average DEX and STR. If they're both 8s, that limits you to rocks and elf bows, which are presumably less than ubiquitous.

>>53000967
Drizzt's negative reputation is also due to the waves of knockoff characters he spawned.

It could end up that way, but as long as you can keep the spotlight roughly evenly shared among the characters it shouldn't be that much of a problem.

Compare the Icewind Dale trilogy to The Legacy. In the Trilogy, there's roughly equal screen-time-sharing between all the members of the group, while in The Legacy, it's very obviously Drizzt whom the plot revolves around. The drow invasion is largely caused by his sister trying to capture him, and all the stuff Entreri pulls in the novel is aimed at getting to him as well. The only real plot thread that doesn't involve him much is the wedding of Wulfgar and Cattie-Brie.

>>52996747
Alright lads,

How would you build OSR-ish classes for insects? I have been toying around with a game based on nine insectoid classes, however conventional OSR stats seem to break down when comparing, say, a stag beetle and woodlouse.

>>53001058
It's definitely RQ. 2e, I believe, though not the scan I've got.

>>52996818
Runequest, and the only thing I recognized it from is that Chaosium always used the big D in their dice notation.

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>>52996747
>vintage meme edition

>>52999684
I don't do gonzo per se but I do prefer slightly weird. Dragon has a trove of weird monsters like Cobra Dragons and Web-Spectres.

>>53000560
Pretty sure it's Morale.

>>53001352
>Morale: Rocksteady
I see what you did there

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>>52996747
One Last Time

>>53001639
Ah, thanks, Anon.

>>53001061
>waves of knockoff characters
Yeah we're sure being inundated by all these dual scimitar weilding good aligned characters of a traditionally evil aligned society! That also have dark skin! I've been fighting through the NY times bestseller lists to just find anything not related to all these waves!

>>53001998
>anon seriously believes Drizzt did not inspire a bunch of copycat characters
Salvatore pls.

>>53002048
Well, where are they? Is there an albino drow elf somewhere that's super evil and dual wielding scimmies?
Isn't drizzt a sort of knock on Elric, anyway?

>>53002105
>Isn't drizzt a sort of knock on Elric, anyway?

Outside of coming from a society of ancient, powerful, feared, and decadent race, not really.

>>53002105
>I don't see this thing
>therefore it has never existed
Salvatore
pls

>>53001998
god damn you are contrary and annoying

>>53002135
>>53002172
I don't disagree with you or anything, but don't just be a contrarian, don't just insult your opponent: that doesn't make for a good debate and will never win you anything.

Instead, how about you name a few examples of Drizzt knock-offs. I'd like to hear of them as well.

>>52999684
>I've notice a pretty close correlation between OSR design and "weird fantasy" settings.
I'd still make the case that Fantasy and Sci-Fi are the same genre, but the distinction hadn't been made when OSR content was originally in print.

>>53002206
Debating people like you is pointless. I can feel you sucking the life out me. Your sucking the life out of this thread. You're making everyone else miserable. We should just hog tie you and sell you to hillbillies who live in the swamp.

>>53002262
I'm not even that guy.

I'd just like to hear of some Drizzt-clones. Naming a couple can't be that tiring, can it?

>>53002277
>Naming a couple can't be that tiring, can it?
Stick your dick in a toaster oven.

>>53002172
Yeah please list an example. I'm sorry but I just didn't see these waves anon was speaking of, honestly.
Love, /lit/

>>53001118
Maybe take it in a Gamma World direction. Many HD at 1st level, and no extras.
But instead of CON = HD, just start each class with some # of HD.

>>53002277
Police Academy 1 and 2 weren't that good, but surely Police Academy 7 will be worthwhile!

>>53002206
Not, like, literary characters or anything, but peoples' RPG characters. Drizzt's the ur-good drow, and what I've heard seems to indicate that Drizzt clones were a relatively common character concept when he was at his most popular (about the turn of the century).

>>53002296
If you can't even bother trying to debate seriously, why answer at all? Why insult? All it does is make your opponent think they're in the right, since you can't even form a coherent response to them. And also it makes you look like a dickbag.

There are no benefits in responding this way, only drawbacks.

>>53002312
aggh! stop feeding him you idiot!

Back! Back troll! Yah!

>>53002335
Honestly, this is the most annoying post in the thread.

>>53002330
NO U

>>53002312
Now that! I did see that, being an avid nwn player. Not the same thing exactly but ok we'll take it.

>>53002343
I guess that means I win then. My job here is done.

>>53002355
Oh please!
How could you not know that was what he was talking about?
You were obviously playing dumb!

>>53002355
>Not the same thing exactly
That is exactly what I meant when I first said it. I was actually kind of confused when the NY Times bestseller list was brought up.

>>53002355
Now I just wonder if there's a term for a 'twist' like a Drow being Good becoming so cliched that the original, 'cliched' version of it is now more interesting than the twist.

>>53002396
>NY Times bestseller list was brought up.
thats because hes TRRROOOOOLLLING YOOOOOOUUUUU

DO NOT RESPOND TO TROLLS

>>53002417
>that top tier [top? bottom? best]
>not including the Dungeoneer's and Wilderness Survival Guide from 1e

>>53002433
You need to calm down. The rest of us have.

>>53002433
No I brought up the NY times bestseller lists because drizzt and crew regularly make the top ten when a new book drops. Ya know, along with all the other fantasy books about an angsty dark elf being all good and doing awesome ranger shit. Yeah all ZERO of them.

>>53002523
Calm down nigger, we already cleared up this misunderstanding.

>>53002523
Probably because NY Times bestseller list doesn't care for cheap knock-offs.

>>53002571
>>53002523
>>53002523
>NY times bestseller
You know the only reason people get on that list is because they bought a record number of books from the printers, right?
They are just stuck with a million unsold copies of their own books. Its a nice little statement about demagoguery that took me a while to learn.

>>53002571
So where are these waves of drizzt knockoffs? No where! What a spurious argument! Making a PC knockoff barely counts. There's been as many Bruenor knockoffs, maybe more, if we're counting pc knockoffs.

>>53002583
Okay, to be honest that may be a rumor. But its one I personally tend to believe. If you want to fact check it be my guest.

>>53002583
>No one buys Stephen King books
>No one buys G. R. R. Martin's books
Please stop posting.

>>53002646
>There's been as many Bruenor knockoffs, maybe more, if we're counting pc knockoffs.
No there haven't. Because Bruenor's just a Gimli knockoff, like 99% of all PC dwarves.

>>53002669
So Gimli by proxy then. The point still stands, you polar cracker.

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who is you're OSRfu?

>>53003103
Flame Princess

>>53003103
Epicaste, from Caverns of Thracia.

>>53003174
I'll take Alice then.

>>53003103
>She can never sleep in the same room as another human being

>>53003103
Morgan Ironwolf.

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>Character has earned enough experience to gain a level, but it's not the end of the session/adventure yet
>Get beaten up by a monster and brought to zero health
>Grant them their level up early, a handful of hit points and maybe slightly better attack rolls
>They're back above zero hit points, can get up one more time
>"I didn't hear no bell."

Good idea, bad idea? Any drawbacks or later consequences that might result from this?

>>53003741
Neat idea. Not sure if it's good or bad. If you try it, let us know.
Only consequence I can think of is making sure they don't distribute treasure in a way that "double dips" some of the xp.

>>53003848
Well, when I say
>drawbacks or later consequences
I was more looking to see whether anyone on /tg/ had any ideas for penalties to throw at them afterwards, like having to rest for a while for straining their body so, or whatnot. Something a little more a dip in negative hit points (if you use any to begin with) wouldn't have.

>>53003741
Sounds like a fun houserule. Takes a bit away from the resource management though. If the players know that they can survive a death as long as they find enough gold, they won't think as much about how to create a safe route in and out of the dungeon.

>>53003875
Oh? No.

Absolutely no need.
They're already at death's door.

>>53003905
It'd only work once, though: I don't think they could ever find enough gold in a single dungeon to gain more than one level at once.

Or can they? If they can, then I guess you'd also need a good while of rest before you can pull the stunt off a second time.

>>53003991
>It'd only work once, though
Once per character or once for the whole game?

>>53004224
Once per character, for a fairly substantial amount of time.

It would, after all, require enough experience points in reserve to be able to gain a level, and as I understand it, you don't gain levels all that fast.

>>53003991
If we're talking about B/X, then no matter how much treasure you find you can only level up once per session.

>>53004299
In that case, I don't see much of a problem with it.

>>53003741

Pretty cool, I may add that to my own houserules. It's not something that would happen often, but would be sweet when it did.

>>52996818
Slings have a longer range than Bows.

>>52997012
>Interesting fact; it's possible to die during character generation in the GLOG system. Your starting HP is your Constitution - 4. Your roll 3d6 for stats, so it's plausible to start with -1 or 0 HP.
You can die in Traveler character creation too. Anybody who's never done it hears that and thinks it's whack but Traveler has some of the greatest character creation I've ever seen.

Best TSR modules to run for vanilla B/X with players new to the game?

>>53005912
In Search of the Unknown.

>>53005912
B2 Keep on the Borderlands
B4 The Lost City

>>53005941
I'd say B1 is better than B2 for new refs; but much, much worse for players.

>>53006125
>>53005912
I someone who really B4 I'd argue it really isn't vanilla. It's pretty fucking weird.

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I am a refugee from /pfg/
I am safe here?

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What is better for gritty low level hexcrawl ( think file related )?
I asked in the D&D 5e thread ( which is the only system I already know ) a few weeks back if they liked low level play in it and they got upset. Something about to having all that content for higher levels but saying the players will never use it being cruel

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>>53006946
>pathfinder

>>52999664
>What;s this Lamentations of the Duck princess thing I heard about last thread?
Presumably a joke? Runequest is famous firstly for having shitty rules and secondly for its setting containing humanoid, Disneyesque ducks. (Their capital is Duckburg.)

>>53006946
Depends on your gaming philosophies. Are you here because you like the concept of old school gaming? Are you here because you want a simpler system to use and build on? If one of those fits you then yes, otherwise, probably not?

>>53007026
Don't act like the ducks weren't one of the best ideas to steal from Runequest.

>>53007057
Wasn't it a Glorantha thing?

>>53006946
Refugee as in "PF treated me poorly and I had to flee" or refugee as in "I hear that OSR is the popular thing right now so I'll go there"?

>>53007026
>Runequest is famous firstly for having shitty rules and secondly for its setting containing humanoid, Disneyesque ducks. (Their capital is Duckburg.)

guy is on tilt after getting bopped by the ducks in king of dragon pass

>>53006900
I really B4 myself and on a second thought I must agree with you on it not being vanilla.

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>> 52923349

I'm leaning towards calling this the "Campaign Rulebook" instead of the "Endgame Rulebook". Possible chapters:

Part 1: Introduction
Part 2: Countryside & Wilderness
Part 3: Time & Weather
Part 4: Settlements
Part 5: Fortifications
Part 6: Cities
Part 7: Ships & Seafaring
Part 8: Occupations & Trade
Part 9: Administration & Justice
Part 10: Warfare
Part 11: High Magic
Appendix A: Gunpowder

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Is there a good free (or easily pirated) PDF creator? I really like using OpenOffice and converting stuff from that to PDFs, but whenever I try and make something bigger than a couple pages it starts crashing every few seconds.

>>53006955
>that hexcrawl
Reminds me of how Zelda 1 and 2 are apparently at the "bad end" of the timeline, and they take place in barren worlds filled with shit trying to kill you where towns and even people in the case of zelda 1 are few and far in between

>>53007131
LaTeX

>>53005912
What about best non-TSR modules for vanilla B/X?

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>>53007089

Sure, but Glorantha and Runequest were kinda joined at the hip.
But I'm with the other guy, Ducks were pretty awesome. There's an OSR Duck class out there, which helps with the stealing.

>>53007131

>OpenOffice

You should probably switch over to LibreOffice, since that's where the development community went to. OO is a wreck nowadays.

>>53007385
The Beacon at Enon Tor (TSR UK but still)

And from Dungeon:
Assault of Eddistone Point
Keep for Sale

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>>53007042
I actually am an old school player who did got introduced into the hobby with AD&D 2nd ed. I miss those campaign settings like Red Steel or Dark Sun as well as the homebrewness.
>>53007093
As I am done with their fetish bullshit, the "popular" players and campaigns... is just an unbearable clusterfuck.

>>53007550
>fetish bullshit
that'd do it

>"popular players and campaigns"
what the fuck?

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>>53007128 (linked >>52923349 to see what it was)
I think your adaption of Adventure is a bit too literal.
But speaking of Atari, Mountain King would be good inspiration for a dungeon.

>>53007693

I think he's talking about the PF generals, which are a wretched hive of memes and villainy.

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>>53007693
Different guy who sometimes bumbles into /pfg/ looking for material but /pfg/ is currently circlejerking over leaked player ERP logs and discord drama.

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>>53007708

Have you got the right thread? Or are we talking about old games for some reason?

Also, fuck yeah, Mountain King. The 2600 version was kind of weak, the C64 one was a lot better.

>>53007743
>but /pfg/ is currently circlejerking over leaked player ERP logs and discord drama.

wow

>>53007743
If you're going to /pfg/ for anything besides art, you will leave disappointed.
>>53007753
>Or are we talking about old games for some reason?
The reason was >>53007128's picture.

Okay what about this as a quick hack. You can try to memorize and extra spell when you are preparing your spells, but if you do, you´ll have to roll a save vs magic. If you fail, you've tried to cram in too much stuff and your brain is about to explode. You then roll on a magic mishap table. This can be done at any time, but if you're in a dungeon you do it with a penalty.

Isn't this a nice way to make it feel less hopeless and a lot more dangerous and sexy to play a first level magic-user? Every player I've introduced this game to have all felt that the magic-user was puny and weak, but I really like them. I feel like magic should feel dangerous and powerful.

Does anyone here use tabletop simulator? If so, what resource pack do you use?

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>>53007743
>/pfg/ is currently circlejerking over leaked player ERP logs and discord drama.

>>53007429
Thanks for pointing this out, was unaware.

>>53008179

/pfg/ is primarily a load of trolling and nonsense. I have a sneaking suspicion that this is because last year's "shitseeker" meme spamming didn't really drive off Pathfinder players from /tg/, so the trolls figured that perhaps stirring up shit in their general will.

>>53001998
He didn't mean fiction. But on the table.
It was a trend for a while for people to play not!Drizzt

>>53008063
I still say extremely small spell capacity with memorization times listed on turns (trade spells for Wandering Monster rolls, essentially) is the way to go.

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>>53008063
Sure, fucking do it. Make sure there's a good balance between bad and really bads on the mishap table, though. They shouldn't all be "death" but at least one of them should be the bad stuff in the summon spell from LotFP.

>>52999888
>>52999900
>>52999944
Boys, I am observing these numbers.

>>53000560
Yeah, that's supposed to be morale. Seeing as almost everything there is undead they've all got 12 morale.

>>53008484

>tfw I played NWN and made a not-Drizzt without even realizing it, just because I took options that seemed fun

I had a Half-elven uhhh sorceror/fighter, I think it was? With dual blades (because it doubled the effect of my self-buff spells) and a black panther familiar (who got buffed as well) picked because it was clearly the coolest familiar choice.

>>53008554
Can you elaborate on the last part, "listed on turns"?

>>53008614
Typographic error, sorry.
*in

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The light of True AD&D™ shall illumine this thread.

>>53008684
I have been blinded

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>>52999828
>>52999834
>>52999900
man that is some weak bait

>>53002212
>I'd still make the case that Fantasy and Sci-Fi are the same genre, but the distinction hadn't been made when OSR content was originally in print.
agreed, the division between genres is so artificial and arbitrary, when the blanket terms Speculative or Weird Fiction work so much better

>>53002308
>Maybe take it in a Gamma World direction. Many HD at 1st level, and no extras.
that sounds really damn boring

>>53002417
man why is /osrg/ so damn terrible today?

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>>53008713
How about a houserule for your consideration? >>53003741

Just complaining about bullshit while dodging all the good stuff, and worse still not contributing anything to yourself, isn't going to help the quality of the thread.

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>>53008713
Have a random PDF, something to read at the toilet.

>>53007743
>feel like /osrg/ is in a bit of a slump these days
>Runequest fags
>that one guy who keeps namedropping Skerples even though Skerples doesn't even namefag
>general bitchiness
>read this post
Jesus. I guess we remain a weird outlier of friendliness and sanity. What the FUCK, Jim.

>>53008827
To be fair, they were discussing a thing that Skerples had made.

>>53008905
Nah, I'm talking about the guy who keeps identifying every post Skerples makes for no reason. The thing you're talking about is perfectly fine.

>>53008614
But if you want an elaboration, in general:

1: 0 *you have to cast the spell immediately, no memorizing
2: 1
3: 1/0
4: 2/0 or 1/1
5: 2/1
6: 2/1/0
7: 2/2/0 or 2/2/1
8: 2/2/1
9: 2/2/1/0
10: 2/2/2/0 or 2/2/2/1
11: 2/2/2/1
12: 2/2/2/1/0
13: 2/2/2/2/0 or 2/2/2/1/1
14: 2/2/2/2/1
etc.

Ref chooses an appropriate # of turns for each spell (to cast/memorize). Varies by spell, not necessarily by spell level.
Spells 3, 5, or 7 levels lower than your highest level spell take cumulative -1 turns to cast/memorize (min 1).

Spells known are limited to 2 per spell level, or three once you have 2 memorization slots of that level.

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Alright, spicy opinions time!

>http://www.lomion.de/cmm/vampilli.php

Would you that Illithid Vampires
>1. Cannot spawn other vampires
>2. Can spawn normal vampires from humans they kill
>3. Can spawn illithid vampires from mindflayers they kill
>4. Both 2 & 3
>5. Other (explain)

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More houserules on not-dying, this time with armor:

>If a physical attack should reduce a character to zero health or less
>Does he hold a shield? If so, then SHIELD SHALL BE SPLINTERED, attack negated
>If not, then roll for hit location
>If it hits somewhere with better than leather armor on, the armor is battered or broken, character takes half damage
>Ring mail, chain mail, scale mail, and splint mail can take one hit before being broken and useless
>Plate mail, field plate, full plate, etc. can take two hits
>If none of these apply, or the shield and the armor were already broken, take full damage

Thoughts? Would it reduce lethality too much, or does the loss of material equipment and having to replace it cover this sufficiently?

>>53009126
5. spawn Illithid Vampires from any humanoid they implant Illithid embryo/larvae into, any other killing just leads to corpses

>>53009167
What would you do to handle the guy who carried half a dozen shields?

>>53009219
Well, it's not like shields weren't historically busted all the fucking time and all warriors carrying a few spares.

It takes a full combat round to wear a new one, I believe, and the shields are big and cumbersome and hard to carry in bulk.

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>>53009219

Vikings used to bring three shields to a duel. When one broke you'd pick up the next. If all three broke before the duel was over, well, them's the breaks.

>>53009264
CARLOS!

>>53009219
Encumbrance. You can just rule that carrying shields is gonna wear you down, so you penalize them where fitting outside of combat. I'd love to see a 3 shield guy try to avoid dart traps and crawl through shafts, because it would be interesting too see them overcome those challenges.

/osrg/ I need help. I'm thinking of writing up a house rule where a player and the DM shoot bullets at eachother. I don't know enough about shooting guns to find some very quick rules where you take turns shooting, something like a western shoot-out.

Where can I find The Fungus That Came To Blackeswell?

Is it in the trove?

>>53010123
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_duello

>>53008713
>the division between genres is so artificial and arbitrary

But Fantasy is the impossible while SF is the improbable. I don't think someone who read a Conan story, then watch an episode of Star Trek and think they're the same genre. I'm not saying that there's no crossover (if you look at a story COMPLETELY at its most basic narrative structure, there's no difference between beating a demon with an amulet/killing an alien with a raygun), but its really improbable to think that there's zero difference between fantasy and SF.

>Speculative or Weird Fiction work so much better
I've always hated the idea of lumping Fantasy into the blanket of Speculative Fiction. Honestly, Spec-Fic should only really be used as an inbetween for stories where you legitimately can't tell if its fantasy or SF; like a story about psychic powers or otherworldly beings that aren't explicitly magical/extraterrestrial

>>53008713
/osr/'s been bad for the last few week, desu.
It seems like its been a LONG time since we were posting old 80s cRPG concept art to illustrate atmosphere and encouraging people to experiment with creating new systems.

OSR blogs poll, URLs taken from the Pastebin:

https://www.strawpoll.me/12856929 (1/2)
https://www.strawpoll.me/12856933 (2/2)

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>>53010375
I do my best but y'all keep falling for bait while I'm at work.

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>>53003520
>She can never sleep in the same room as another human being

>>53010375
>/osr/'s been bad for the last few week, desu.
Were you here this summer? It was horrible. It's alright right now, although I'm still confused as to why people come in here wanting to discuss things that aren't very OSR expect for like one aspect.

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>>53008827
>>53008935
It's a little annoying, desu, but it doesn't really bother me. I'm sure he gets a kick out of it, but I find it confusing.

Anyway, more stuff to spam:

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/05/osr-creature-paradox-angels.html

Paradox Angels! They turn up when you've broken the universe and fix it with violence. A lot of violence. And fire.

>>53010961
>I'm still confused as to why people come in here wanting to discuss things that aren't very OSR expect for like one aspect.

It's not like we're running out of space haha :^)
Anything that starts discussion haha :^)

>>53010961
> I'm still confused as to why people come in here wanting to discuss things that aren't very OSR expect for like one aspect.

OSR is cool right now, and they want to glom onto it in hopes of getting some of that mojo for [insert non-OSR system here]? That's my guess.

>>53010973
I'm sure he gets a kick out of it, but I find it confusing.
He's in love with you, dude

Anyway, speaking of angels, I like the writeup Zak S did about them. They're four-dimensional seeds in the prime material plane that have existed since the world began, and they appear in very specific moments to stop very dangerous threats from other planes. They also appear through a thing within the plane. It can be a human (even a PC), an animal or some kind of work of art like a gargoyle.

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>>53011163
>mfw forget meme arrow
>

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>>53011163
>He's in love with you, dude

>>53011163
>Zak S
Into the dustbin it goes.

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>>53011273
You do know I'm not a kobold, right?

>>53011345
Please be more productive in your criticism next time. That's just a low-effort reply.

>>53011351
remember when we thought bash was true

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>>53011163
>Anyway, speaking of angels, I like the writeup Zak S did about them. They're four-dimensional seeds in the prime material plane that have existed since the world began, and they appear in very specific moments to stop very dangerous threats from other planes. They also appear through a thing within the plane. It can be a human (even a PC), an animal or some kind of work of art like a gargoyle.

At that point though, you may have jumped the weird shark. I'm all for weird angels, but that seems a little too weird. And it's too... planar.

Tangent: It really rustles my jimmies when books are like "Mummies have X power because of their connection to the Positive Energy Plane."

Oooh, how evocative. That /really/ makes me want to put a mummy in my game. How wonderful and amazing and useful.

No wait, the opposite of that. It's a dry and boring line that means nothing. It's useless and stupid worldbuilding. It's pointless cosmology invading every aspect of a setting and draining out the interesting bits in the name of consistency and "rolling your own explanations".

Well I say it's spinach, and I say to hell with it and all the other Planes. They kill any medieval-ness to the D&D mindset.

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>>53011351
Anon, you haven't even begun to plumb the depths of my depravity.

>>53011396
>remember when we thought bash was true
On IRC from nine till two
Holding hands and skimming phones
Had an good old modem and a place of my own
But the biggest kick I ever got
Was doing a thing called the username stalk
While the other kids were Rocking Round the Clock
We were hopping and bopping to the username stalk

>>53011492
I mean, it doesn't have to be planes specifically. The point is that god only rules over one "domain", and can therefore see it in four dimensions and know everything that has happened and will happen in it. It can't see outside of this domain though, so things that try to attack it from the outside cannot be seen directly by god. I kind of like it because having agents of a four-dimensional god be used in a three-dimensional way is kinda silly.

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>>53011179

>saying "meme arrow"
>unironically

Don't you mean to say you "forgot to quote?"

>>53011688
>unironically believing I used "meme arrow" unironically.
I shiggy diggy.

Let's stop shitposting.

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>>53011492
I don't mind the Planes that much, I just wish they weren't treated so mundanely. Planescape's "herp derp fieldtrip to heaven/hell!" attitude kills a lot of the wonder that should be present when it comes to the afterlife and the gods.

>>53011382
>That's just a low-effort reply.
A fitting response to low-quality content.

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>>53011705

Yes, we must stop shitposting!

>>53011732
How is it low-quality content?

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>>53011735
I was just about to post that. Nice work.

>>53011382
>That's just a low-effort reply.
A fitting response to low-quality content.
What is content? A miserable little pile of shitposts! But enough talk! Have at yo

>>53011669
I guess my threshold for "oh fuck off" is
a) can the players easily understand it
b) can they interact with it

Otherwise, it exist just for the GM to get his rocks off. It's Raggian prose - content that exists to be interesting but not, on close examination, to be useful or coherent.

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>>53011775
It's written by Zak S.
And what >>53011787 said.

>>53011787
>a) can the players easily understand it
I could explain it easily enough. I think most players are smart enough to understand it.

>b) can they interact with it
If they understand the rules for it, they can take advantage of it.

Also
>Raggian prose
Is this a new /osrg/ meme?

>>53011832
Why is something written by Zak S low-effort content?

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>>53011852
>Is this a new /osrg/ meme?

Sounds like it.

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>>53011852
>Is this a new /osrg/ meme?

I'm making it a meme, I guess. I needed a word to describe stuff in The God That Crawls.

>I could explain it easily enough. I think most players are smart enough to understand it.
Right, I guess I should also add "and care".

See, describing the intricate politics that result in the election of the Doge of Venice is cool. I can do that. I can explain that to anyone. But if my players are in Venice to buy shoes, I'm just wasting their time to prove I'm the cleverest boy in school.

>If they understand the rules for it, they can take advantage of it.

Right, but how do their characters gain that knowledge? It's easy to go "Oh cool, this stone reverses gravity when dipped in blood." It's harder to go "Ok, how the fuck does anyone figure that out? And who made it? And why?"

And it's even harder to go "Ok, your illiterate peasant archer sees a [wand that can shift all elements down by one on the periodic table]" and have that mean something in a game, other than "weird stuff happened and you have no idea why."

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>>53011852
>low-effort content
It's not low-effort (you could even argue it's too much effort) but the quality always remains the same (i.e. low-quality) because it's written by a hipster/political activist/hack who thinks that RPGs 1) can be art and 2) should be art.

>>53011983
The second point is of course debatable, but I don't see how RPGs couldn't be art.

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>>53012010
>>53011983
Now, this would be one of your conundrums of philosophy.

AND I AIN'T HAVING IT. Go to /lit/ or something. Or /pfg/, they love this stuff.

But we can at least agree that RPGs need to be games, and some of the stuff Zak produces, while interesting, isn't exactly usable.

>>53011913
>See, describing the intricate politics that result in the election of the Doge of Venice is cool. I can do that. I can explain that to anyone. But if my players are in Venice to buy shoes, I'm just wasting their time to prove I'm the cleverest boy in school.
So you're telling me that my post at >>53011163 is as complicated as Italian political history?

>Right, but how do their characters gain that knowledge?
Read an old tome? Talk to an old mystic? Make a deal with an old dragon? Trial and error? It's just common knowledge in certain parts of the world?

>And it's even harder to go "Ok, your illiterate peasant archer sees a [wand that can shift all elements down by one on the periodic table]" and have that mean something in a game, other than "weird stuff happened and you have no idea why."
Sounds more like a DM and player problem to be quite honest my brethren. Maybe you should ease players into weird setting elements before hitting them with something that more experienced players can handle?

>>53011983
Critiquing someone's work by focusing on tangentially related qualities of the author is much more low-quality though. Perhaps you should expel yourself from these threads instead.

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>>53012098
>So you're telling me that my post at >>53011163 is as complicated as Italian political history?

Nothing is as complicated as Italian political history. Not even Italian political history.

But "4-dimensional" alone smacks of GM-cleverness wankery. Does it matter? They just appear and disappear as needed. It's like saying the wizard's spell of disintegration "tears apart the strong nuclear force". Well, sure. But more importantly and much more usefully it disintegrates things. Focus on the practical.

>Read an old tome? Talk to an old mystic? Make a deal with an old dragon? Trial and error? It's just common knowledge in certain parts of the world?
About a random rock, or some weird thing in a dungeon? Trust me, players move on /fast/ from stuff like that. If there's a mystery that might conceal money, sure, they'll explore. But a mystery that's just mysterious gets forgotten about, languishing forever in the realm of half-legible notes.

>Sounds more like a DM and player problem to be quite honest my brethren. Maybe you should ease players into weird setting elements before hitting them with something that more experienced players can handle?

My physics PhD player can trivially handle 4th dimensional angels. His Int 10 wizard cannot, or at least, won't handle them in the same terms. For fuck's sake, this is medieval fantasy europe. People are afraid of the weather. They've got no context for dimensional shit like this unless they've been reading their Gnostic gospels or bickering with heretical monks, and even they, they're liable to get it "wrong".

It's wankery. God sends angels as needed. Leave the poor dimensions out of it.

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>>53012010
An RPG is like a chainsaw: You can sculpt some ice (run a game) with it, which is definitely art, but that doesn't make the tool itself art. By embellishing a chainsaw (or an RPG system) to the extent that it itself becomes art, it essentially ceases to have any real use and become nothing more than a display object.

>>53012050
Alright, Mr. Engineer.

>>53012098
>tangentially related qualities
Being an avant-garde hipster is big part of Zak's schtick though. Hardly a tangentially related quality.
I also find amusing how LofTPdrones are the ones who constantly parrot this absurd "I only judge the work by its quality not its author" mantra as though it makes them superior to others.

>>53011852
>Is this a new /osrg/ meme?
From a few threads back.
It's when the worldbuilder masturbates.

>>53012010
Modern art was shit, but Modern artists had neat ideas.
Postmodern art isn't art. It's the natural extension of jews fleecing rubes who didn't understand Modern art.
>but I don't see how RPGs couldn't be art.
And you never will. You're tied down with by shitty semiotics.

>>53012173
>But "4-dimensional" alone smacks of GM-cleverness wankery. Does it matter? They just appear and disappear as needed.
>Focus on the practical.
It is practical though. The players can assume that an angel will appear if there's dangerous extraplanar activity going on. That means that they just have to find or cause that to gain a potential audience with an angel. They might even become an angel themselves. This can be used.

>About a random rock, or some weird thing in a dungeon?
I thought we were still discussing 4-dimensional angels. Anyway, my players tend to like experimenting with weird stuff they find in dungeons. And if they don't find a use for it, they can get it identified and/or sell it. And then that can lead to other events since weird items are floating around in markets.

>My physics PhD player can trivially handle 4th dimensional angels. His Int 10 wizard cannot, or at least, won't handle them in the same terms.
I don't think players need to restrict their knowledge to their characters in games where their DM wants them to have fun with weird concepts. It's a table preference thing, so I get if you and your group might not like it. Doesn't really change that mine does.

>>53012204
>Being an avant-garde hipster is big part of Zak's schtick though. Hardly a tangentially related quality.
Shit dude, if you didn't know that he was one, you'd probably like his writing more. You'd probably dislike Skerples' writing if you decided that he was a leftist art guy on his spare time. Thinking like that is just boring.

>I also find amusing how LofTPdrones are the ones who constantly parrot this absurd "I only judge the work by its quality not its author" mantra as though it makes them superior to others.
I dunno dude, Lotfp is the only brand I see (other than TSR D&D) where people actively discuss the authors rather than the content. I never see anyone jump on Harley Stroh's ass whenever DCC is discussed. Maybe it's you who has a need to feel superior.

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>>53012231
Want to see some Raggian prose? Here's a great example: the Chariot of Unreality, p.29 of the famous "the God that Crawls."

TGTC is, ostensibly, about a giant boneless mutant St. Augustine living in a dungeon under a church. It's a module based around a protracted horror chase sequence. What might you expect to find in this dungeon?

TWO PAGES of rules for a chariot, of course. To activate it, you need to remove the metal axle and mount it to a real chariot, something PCs are known to do all the time. "Chiswick! Fresh axles!" is a constant refrain in my group. They're prying them off everything. One of them made a wagon using wheels of cheese he found in a dungeon; it turned him into the Pope.

Anyway, this chariot won't turn you into the Pope. It'll mostly turn you dead. But you have to live in suspense to find out because there are /rules/ for this shit. Heaps of them! So many that you're almost certain to miss one. It makes every round an adventure in faffing about.

And it's got real-world and 4th-wall-breaking humour, because the author is a hip modern RPG author who loves his own jokes. His editors, assuming he has them, must like his jokes too or this book would be a lot shorter.

And that's TWO PAGES. The module is 57 pages long! There are rooms that mysteriously upgrade your coins. A random invisible chair. Noisy paper that sounds like africa. And that's just on the next page.

There's no thematic consistency here, unless "vaguely religious" is a theme, and it's pretty fucking vague let me tell you. It's just a grab bag of the author's good ideas, written down one after the other. Works for a blog. Doesn't work for a dungeon.

Raggian prose.

>>53012429
That's funny that you read that and got really upset about it. I read it, laughed a bit, and thought that it would be a fun time if the players found it and used it. It also had an accompanied illustration which was nice.

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>>53012398
>if you decided
I didn't "decide" that Zak is a hipster and a lefty, he frames himself in that way on his very blog, the very title of which a big attention-whoring flag. You're acting like Zak's persona is the invention of some shadowy grognard cabal when it's very public and put out by the man himself.

>I never see anyone jump on Harley Stroh's ass whenever DCC is discussed.
Harley Stroh doesn't present himself as one of the Bogdanoffs of the OSR and DCC has more more originality than LofTP in both mechanics and thematics so there's no reason to do so.

>>53012532
>Well I liked it!
Truly a compelling argument. I suppose FR's and DL's 30+ pages of timelines are also good because they inspired an adventure or two?

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>>53012532
I'm not mad because it's fun. It's good gonzo madness. With some rules neatening, it'd be great at a Used Chariot Salesman's yard or as the hinge in a racing subplot. Out of context, it's fine.

But it's directly against the stated goals and objectives of the dungeon. It's out of theme, out of tone, and out of left field. In context, it's shit.

If you're running a dungeon that's a) horror b) a chase and c) designed to reward fast exploration and good use of terrain, spending 2 pages about an FUCKING AXLE is just stupid. It's a laughable waste of space and time that could be used better elsewhere (possibly by a better author).

It's like saying "Here's a recipe for chocolate cake. Step 8. Let me tell you about the Doge of Venice..."

The pretension bugs me. The "we are on the bleeding edge of the RPG scene" followed by shit like this is annoying as hell. These people should know better, damn it! They should learn! If you spend pages 6,7,12, and 13 talking about what you want to do, don't immediately fuck it up by filling the dungeon with whatever random crap occurs to you, in order, until you run out of rooms.

>>53012532
>and thought that it would be a fun time if the players found it and used it.
What an inordinately large if
No one anywhere ever decided to loot a metal axle

If it actually listed a metal (or the ref picked one), it might be worth looting. If it's silver or something
But even then, unless an axle breaks on your chariot let's be honest, you have a wagon or just a sack while you're heading back to town, that's still just vendor trash

>>53008944
Bump for interest

>>53012587
>I didn't "decide" that Zak is a hipster and a lefty, he frames himself in that way on his very blog, the very title of which a big attention-whoring flag.
"decide" was the wrong word to use. I meant "found out". Either way, just because you know what the author is and isn't doesn't change whatever qualities the writing has. If some anon here would have posted that idea here, you probably wouldn't have had a problem with it (or you would have actually critiqued it, which is all I want).

>Harley Stroh doesn't present himself as one of the Bogdanoffs of the OSR and DCC has more more originality than LofTP in both mechanics and thematics so there's no reason to do so.
I'm sure that someone around here doesn't like Stroh for whatever reason, and he does have a pretty big presence at google plus and goodman games' forum. I don't see a reason to jump on an author at all when simply discussing an idea presented by them.

>Truly a compelling argument.
"Well I disliked it" isn't a very compelling argument either, but that was what I was responding to. And when I wrote that it was "funny", I seriously meant that I find it interesting that our opinions about it are so different.

>>53012677
>But it's directly against the stated goals and objectives of the dungeon. It's out of theme, out of tone, and out of left field. In context, it's shit.
The module is about a dungeon filled with random historical magic items brought there by a crazy cult. Every magical thing in the dungeon does something crazy. That's a theme. The chariot fits pretty well into that.

>>53012691
>What an inordinately large if
>No one anywhere ever decided to loot a metal axle
If players would find a chariot in a super-hidden room in a dungeon filled with weird-ass magic shit, they wouldn't take it? Come on now.

Shit man, I just wanted to add onto that blogpost about angels with another idea. Don't know how I got roped into discussing the faults of a five-year old module.

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>>53012691
>No one anywhere ever decided to loot a metal axle

I can imagine situations where this could occur.

I cannot imagine one occurring in a dungeon where the players are being chased by a giant oozing boneless saint-monster. A metal axle seems like the first thing you'd drop.

>>53010973
>Ways to Create A Paradox
>3. Time Travel.
This only refers to abnormal time travel right?
Is moving forward at a rate of one second per second (adjusted for local gravity) safe?

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>>53012876
>The module is about a dungeon filled with random historical magic items brought there by a crazy cult. Every magical thing in the dungeon does something crazy. That's a theme. The chariot fits pretty well into that.

That's not a theme!

You could have a magic toaster, a singing pitcher plant, three blind mice, a teleporting brothel, and 2d10 gold dubloons in a room and it'd still fit your theme! That's lousy design.

"Filled with random historical magic items" = "whatever Raggi thought was cool at /that exact moment/"

And some of the magic is pretty dang mundane.

>Two identical demonic faces are carved into the east and west walls. Each face has an open mouth with a darkened space within. Anything put into the mouth of one statue comes out the mouth of the other.

Wow. Impressively gonzo.

>A pot containing a dead plant sits here. If fed blood (1hp worth) and exposed to sunlight, it will come back to life, instantly growing lush green leaves. Following a full day’s exposure to sunlight after having been fed blood, it will bear fruit which is nourishing enough to count as a full day’s rations.

Oh man, that's nuts. Surely, the players will PICK UP THIS RANDOM POTTED PLANT, and then FEED IT BLOOD for some reason to discover it produces AN UNSTATED NUMBER OF HUNGRY MAN BEEF DINNERS.

Yeah. This is indefensible. It's not interesting or thematic or cool or even appropriate for the stated goals of the dungeon. It's literally just Raggi's Greatest Hits.

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>>53012956
Provided you don't stop or look behind you, yes, it's perfectly safe. Most people aren't aware of how dangerous time travel is because they do it unconsciously. If you become aware of it, like becoming aware of the feel of your tongue in your mouth, it's very dangerous. You suddenly realize the path you're walking is surrounded by horrors, and that you are only safe provided you stare straight ahead.

>>53013035
It's been a while since I read it, so I guess I mostly remember the craziest stuff. I still think that one of the main ideas of the module is to put a lot of magic stuff into it, some crazier that others.

>Yeah. This is indefensible. It's not interesting or thematic or cool or even appropriate for the stated goals of the dungeon. It's literally just Raggi's Greatest Hits.
I've seen a lot of anons post their experiences with the module and most of them seem to have had a good time with it. You're really getting riled up about this whole thing though and this wasn't even something I wanted to discuss so maybe we should stop discussing it.

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>>53013144
>I still think that one of the main ideas of the module is to put a lot of magic stuff into it, some crazier that others.

But... by your own admission, you haven't read it recently, and you haven't ever run it. So I don't really care what you think because it contradicts the stated goals of the author. I'm all for the "death of the author" criticism style, but if a guy says he's going to write a romance novel and instead writes the instructions to a VCR, you've got to ask how things got to this point.

>I've seen a lot of anons post their experiences with the module and most of them seem to have had a good time with it.

And the core idea - there's a chase in a dungeon full of relics - is a cool one. And maybe it does run, on average, pretty well. But it does so in spite of the crap that Raggi threw into this module, not because of it. Nobody mentions the axle or the plant.

>You're really getting riled up about this whole thing though

I was asked to defend a meme. Draw your own conclusions.

>>53013273
>I was asked to defend a meme.

What? When did that happen, 'cause I never saw it.

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>>53013316
>What? When did that happen, 'cause I never saw it.

Eh, more or less.
>>53011884
>Sounds like it.
>>53011852
>Is this a new /osrg/ meme?

People wanted to know. And now they know, the poor bastards.

>>53013273
>because it contradicts the stated goals of the author
So I went back and check out the foreword to the text. Found this:
>Most of this information is entirely information
for the Referee and not likely to be
communicated to the players. Some may see
this as “fluff ” and irrelevant to the adventure,
but I disagree. Such detail helps to get the
Referee into the mindset of the adventure,
can be an important factor in the Referee
being attracted to the adventure enough to
run it in the first place, and will influence how
the Referee plays the cult. This is a very big
deal. It is the sort of thing that brings a game
to life and makes the players remember them
forever. And that is the measure—the only
one—of a good adventure.
Think what you want about that, but having those weird magic items is clearly to reach a certain goal that is stated.

>Nobody mentions the axle or the plant.
Don't remember the plant, but the axle is purposely put in the most secret part of the dungeon. It'll only be found by the most experienced, dedicated and/or lucky players.

>I was asked to defend a meme. Draw your own conclusions.
Were you? I just asked what it was and someone explained it. Then you decided to elaborate with this whole thing.

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>>53013397
Sorry for fucking up the quote again, too tired for this shit.

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>>53012876
>If some anon here would have posted that idea here, you probably wouldn't have had a problem with it
If some Anon had posted it I would have ignored or greentexted the most cringeworthy parts of his idea with a spicy reaction image. As a matter of fact I'll do that now!

「>>53011163
>four-dimensional seeds
Trying too hard to be unique.

>they appear in very specific moments to stop very dangerous threats from other planes.
Yes, I too remember the Monitors and Inevitables.

>They also appear through a thing within the plane.
So like almost every other outsider ever statted?」


>"Well I disliked it" isn't a very compelling argument either
Here's a compelling argument: An entire column (or about 65% of an entire page) is wasted on a 4th-wall joke and McDonalds references, a feat that even the shittiest April Fools adventure in Dragon or Dungeon didn't accomplish.

>>53013144
>>53013144
>this wasn't even something I wanted to discuss
>says the guy who's been shilling for Zak S. and Raggi on a cambodian shadow puppet bulletin board for almost 2 hours
lol(?)

>>53010973
Considering how easy it is to barf a swarm of paradox angels, I'm a bit off-put by their 8 HD. 8 hp feels more appropriate.

>>53013079
I guess it makes for a good way to cover your retreat? Provided you could hypnotize yourself out of that state of mind later.

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>>53013397
>Most of this information is entirely information for the Referee and not likely to be communicated to the players.

He means the background on pages 6-13, all the stuff about the village and all that. The actual setting. Not stuff in the dungeon.

Because the stuff in the dungeon demolishes that idea. You want to "get the Referee into the mindset of the adventure", Raggi? Well what the fuck is

>If the Referee is contacted by someone inquiring about the reward, that player of the character whose sheet has been found must agree to pay a reward equal to the local price of one standard McDonald’s Big Mac meal (is there any other universal standard of value throughout the world?) to the finder. If the reward is paid and the physical character sheet (or printout) is indeed returned to the Referee, the character can return to play with an additional 1d4 × 10 % experience points. (If the sheet is returned with no reward required, the character receives no additional experience points.)

Supposed to "influence how the GM plays the cult"?

Here's a hint. It isn't. Its' GM wankery. It's a joke written into the module for the GM's eyes only, to make you laugh and feel clever and then move on. I mean come on, even if your players do decide to a) haul the axle out for some reason b) mount it on a chariot for some reason c) have the chariot pulled by two horses at full gallop d) move for 5 rounds and whatever other BS mechanical requirements needed...

Are you seriously going to follow through with Raggi's idea? Print sheets, distribute them, get rewards, pay big mac money?

Is that what you bought an adventure book about a God that Crawls for? Imagine you'd paid for that page.

>Then you decided to elaborate with this whole thing.

Well it beats working.

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>>53013499
8HD for a creature that, half the time, will be busy barfing fire onto random objects, can't see, and can be trapped seems appropriate. You're not supposed to fight them fairly. But sure, 8HP works too, I suppose.

And it's not /that/ easy to get them to spawn unless you're a philosopher or a barber.

>>53013448
>actual critique
Fucking finally, I knew you could do it my man. Now, let's talk about how we can make it better. How would you do it?

>Here's a compelling argument: An entire column (or about 65% of an entire page) is wasted on a 4th-wall joke and McDonalds references
If a joke hits, is it wasted?

>says the guy who's been shilling for Zak S. and Raggi on a cambodian shadow puppet bulletin board for almost 2 hours
Hey man, I just felt like discussing something tonight and this was the best I got. I also wanted to get some actual independent thought from the people who love bringing up googleplus personality dramas and shitting up these generals. I'm glad you took some steps towards decency.

Then again,
>chen reaction image
hmmm

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>>53013447
Is ok, I did it the first time I quoted from this module too. No worries.

>>53013448
>a spicy reaction image
>it's a catgirl
>in black and white
k

>「... 」
Hello tiny brackets, I see you there.

If MS Paint Anon is in the thread, would he mind writing up a 「barbering philosopher」 class?

>>53013543
>Supposed to "influence how the GM plays the cult"?
So one paragraph breaks all the rest? This is very nitpicky.

>Are you seriously going to follow through with Raggi's idea? Print sheets, distribute them, get rewards, pay big mac money?
Sheets are already printed. The rest could be fun to do. Depends on how much time I have to waste.

>Is that what you bought an adventure book about a God that Crawls for?
I dunno what people pay for lotfp books for, but I'm sure that people can find enjoyment in it. It's also just one part of the module, so it's not the only thing you pay for. Honestly, the enjoyment of that part goes into the illustration as well, which is very nice.

>>53013724
>This is very nitpicky.

Yep, that's 4chan critiques in a nutshell.

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>>53013724
>So one paragraph breaks all the rest? This is very nitpicky.

I'm trying to offer an example of why I don't think it works, not say "this one sentence PROVES, as in the book of Leviticus..."

I don't really have the time (all indications to the contrary) to pull the paragraphs apart. They aren't really worth it. But give the section another read.

>The rest could be fun to do.

Really? And your group would be all for it?

You know those really elaborate plans you had in elementary school? They usually showed up around birthdays or Halloween. Elaborate, multi-step plans based more on TV and wishing than real life, and always, no matter what, kind of awkward and disappointing in the end? That's what this bit of the module feels like.

>but I'm sure that people can find enjoyment in it.
People fantasize about fucking kobolds. Doesn't mean the kobold-fuckers want kobold porn in the middle of their cake recipes. "Maybe someone can find enjoyment" is a low bar.

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>>53013957
>You know those really elaborate plans you had in elementary school?
I never had those. Am I retarded?

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>>53014030
>I never had those. Am I retarded?

Possibly, but you are on 4chan, so it's hard to tell.

From time to time, do you wake up in the middle of the night and remember something mildly embarrassing you did decades ago and want to stab yourself in the throat with a barbecue brush?

>>53013957
>Really? And your group would be all for it?
If this was a one-shot, and they decide to take the (incredibly hard to find and bring back) for a ride once they've escaped, I could definitely imagine doing it. I would imagine that the characters would never be returned, and I would tell the players what it was all about and they'd probably have a laugh. But really, I dunno. It all depends on who's in the group, where the game is played, how much time I have, how much I feel up to it in the moment, etc etc.

>People fantasize about fucking kobolds. Doesn't mean the kobold-fuckers want kobold porn in the middle of their cake recipes.
I still think that this is hyperbole. I really don't think that the chariot is that out of place with the rest of the stuff in the module, so I can't relate to this incredible disconnect that you felt.

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>>53013957
>Doesn't mean the kobold-fuckers want kobold porn in the middle of their cake recipes

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>>53014137
>I still think that this is hyperbole. I really don't think that the chariot is that out of place with the rest of the stuff in the module, so I can't relate to this incredible disconnect that you felt.

Nah, you misunderstand. I go to the Joy of Cooking. I say "I'd like a chocolate cake." I flip to the page for chocolate cake. There's a preface that tells me how good the cake is going to be, how moist and delicious every kilogram of coronary-inducing batter is going to feel on my tongue. "Fuck, I'm stoked for this cake," I say. "The chef has a reputation in the cooking community, although I haven't really looked into it."

Then I flip the page and BAM, kobold porn. Pages of it. In the margins, there's a recipe for chocolate cake, but it's missing several key steps like how much flour to add and what temperature to set the oven. It's the sketch of a recipe weaving in and out of the kobold porn.

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>>53014197

Stop selling me on this cookbook, and start telling me where I can buy it, faggot.

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>>53014197
Maybe the problem then wasn't that the book never was the Joy of Cooking, and your assumptions were wrong from the start. You also missed all the parts in the beginning of the book that implies that it's in fact a novel about kobolds baking a cake while having an orgy. Maybe you imagined that there would be more stuff about cake, but there was a lot of kobold fucking too. Maybe the book was actually called "The Joy of Fucking (Kobolds in Kitchens)".

Sorry, I'm too tired to continue this. Wish you the best and keep doing you.

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>>53014279
>Stop selling me on this cookbook, and start telling me where I can buy it, faggot.

Can't help you there, but the 50 Shades of Chicken book is fucking hilarious, and the recipes are really good too.

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>>53014337
Can I say that, no matter our disagreements, this sleepy metaphor-extending ramble of yours is gold. You're a good person. I bet you'd adopt a three legged dog and not tell him he's adopted.

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What podcasts are worth a damn?

Adventure Zone rules. Spellburn is pretty good. And Save or Die is hit or miss. Anything I should be checking out?

favourite Judge's Guild shit?

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>>53014197
Wouldn't be too objectionable, if you'd pick a more patrician fetish.

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>>53014603
Oh, we're doing this now, are we?

Well you're on your own. I'm going to go pass out in a pile of cats and money.

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>>53014554
I think J.E.R. IV would approve of the Book of Treasure Maps.

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>>53014554
City State of the Invincible Overlord

>>53014623
Suit yourself. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hey guys, what are y'all discussing tod-

>some jabroni hating on the chariot from god that crawls

i was in such a good mood too

>>53015036
Go away Raggi, the chariot's shit.

>>53015181
i'll knock your fucking block off, reading that adventure was one of the things that got me into OSR

>>53015320
It's cringy garbage, that's what it is. It's like Fuck for Satan, without the disclaimer of it being le xD funny joke.

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More frivolous, one-off, borderline impractical game mechanics please. Has Raggi done this elsewhere? I recall in the tower he has a player play the ref in a game of chess. He admits the rest of the party sort of tuned out during the play test.

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>>53015340

>Getcher hot opinions here!

>>53015356
>He admits the rest of the party sort of tuned out during the play test.
That's because those things are lolrandum dressed up as legitimate by the fact they've been printed. There's good stuff in Loftp, but sometimes you have to sift out the garbage which brings down the overall quality of otherwise decent material.

>>53015608
Pretty much how I feel about a lot of LOTFP stuff- read them for inspiration, NEVER run them as written because jesus christ did they even test this shit?

>>53015639
>never run as written
This, this for basically everything. The entire shitfest up thread is two people arguing about individual group preferences, game style and
a e s t h e t i c s like its badwrongfun. Which is some funny shit given taking things apart and changing them to suit your group is fairly essential to osr. Its fine to not like shit, but damn, calm down.

>>53001998
*cough*
Remind me again why Rangers now dual-wield.
I'll wait.

>>53015911
Seriously, there's a line in a LOTFP adventure that says that 'if this creature dies, you can never run an adventure again'.
No fucking way did anyone write that thinking you would actually listen.
This shit is not supposed to hit your table unaltered. (Of course, at that point, you get into the long debate of at what point in the alterations would you have been better off starting from scratch, but I ain't touching that one.)

>>53010354
>But Fantasy is the impossible while SF is the improbable.
Sci-fi and Fantasy both deal with the impossible.

Hard Sci-Fi likes to pretend it deals with the improbable, but admits to being a lier.
Never mind that most old "Hard Sci-Fi" is considered Soft Sci-Fi these days.

Sufficiently explore the practical consequences of any Fantasy elements, and the setting will quickly look like Sci-Fi.
Peel away a sufficient number of abstractions in any Sci-Fi, the underlying hand-waves will quickly look like Fantasy.
They use separate paradigms and their lazier works lean separate cliches, but they occupy identical design space.

>>53015356
>Has Raggi done this elsewhere?
IIRC there's a thing in The Monolith from Beyond Space and Time where you can roll that the referee is never allowed to run a game again for the rest of his life. I think Raggi may be mildly retarded, even though I like a ton of his product.

>>53014372
Does Adventure zone get better after a while? First few hours seemed to be just "roll for anything you attempt" and griffin not being prepared.

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>>53015340
>I don't like thing.

I don't care. Tell me about a good module that you like instead.

>>53016250
I can write scifi taking place in 10 years from now, stop making ridicolous statements.

>>53017482
I can write fantasy taking place in 10 years from now, stop making laugh-inhabiting statements.

>>53017448
>I don't care.
Obviously you cared enough to respond to a 3.5-hour-old post.

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>>53014554

>>53015639
>>53015608
>>53015356

Hey now. Remember, you're not allowed to say bad things about Raggi in /osrg/.

>>52996747
I'm running a campaign of Trail of Cthulhu and two of the investigators always pack drugs for the lulz I guess. They ended up subduing a psychic occultist that was mind controlling them by stuffing his face full of magic mushrooms and letting him trip off to the wonderland.
Never intended for that guy to be captured alive.

>>53017664
>Scrolling down the thread and replying to posts that stick out is caring

How fucking new are you? Not even that guy, but holy shit your argument game is weak.

>>53019181
>Not even that guy
I trust this less than the wine in the Tower of the Stargazer.

File: Magic wands crystal.jpg (117KB, 1500x821px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 1500x821px

>>52998146

This sounds kind of stupid but I like the way Wizards are presented in Dota 2.

They only learn 3-4 spells at most throughout their entire lifetimes, though those spells could be more flexible then basic attack spells in a DnD style game. All magic beyond that is based on magic items, or maybe constructed memetic devices or innate powers learned through other forms of study or growth.

Wouldn't translate that well into tabletop games but I would like to see how it could be done.

>>53019335
Are those magical Q-tips?

>>52996747
if your GM allows it pathfinder has smelling salts
>Smelling salts grant you a new saving throw to resist any spell or effect that has already rendered you unconscious or staggered.
>If exposed to smelling salts while dying, you immediately become conscious and staggered, but must still make stabilization checks each round
>if you perform any standard action (or any other strenuous action) you take 1 point of damage after completing the act and fall unconscious again.
>A container of smelling salts has dozens of uses if stoppered after each use, but depletes in a matter of hours if left opened.

For OSR I'd probably rule that it gives you the reroll for sleep spells or [maybe] charm spells/effect only.

>>53019335
Wonder & Wickedness has some pretty broad spells, at least in interpretation. Couple that with Numenera-like cyphers and stuff. Then again, it's kind of how I roll already, except I like specific spells, and the possibility to gain some powers are plentiful in various weird shit players get themselves into.

By the way, anyone else feels that literally nothing distinguishes Numenera from D&D except the specific mechanics? I adapted stuff to my vaguely sciency fantasy setting on the fly.

>>53019335
>Wouldn't translate that well into tabletop games
Sure it would.

>>53019335
>Wouldn't translate that well into tabletop

Why not? DCC does something like that.

>>53019335
Dude, that's straight out of Jack Vance's Dying Earth. As such, it'd fit right in.

>>53023230
Vance's wizards have access to many spell, but only keep a few handy at any time.
They are suggesting only giving access to a few spells. [full stop]

>>53023327
>Vance's wizards have access to many spell

Theoretically they can, but most wizards in the Dying Earth have acquired only one or two spells. Folks like Mazirian and Turjan are exceptional, and they guard their collection of spells zealously.

How to organize physical material (so, no hyperlinks) for a West Marches kind of campaign?

-big campaign map
-several area maps, detailed
-several dungeon maps for each area
-several sublevels for each dungeon
-all this has to be inter-connected, and easy to reference on the fly
-???
-everything in a binder

Does anyone have a list of spell defects from miscasting? Kind of like DCC has?

>>53024365
Why not use the DCC tables, then? They're fine enough for the purpose.

>>53024231
The hexes/squares are numbered, right? Use that to organize everything. The players will only have time to move a certain amount each session, so plan those parts. Ask the players beforehand what they want to do, so that you have it ready.

Are there any good early level solo adventures around?

How do you guys play OSR at low levels?

My group is having trouble surviving, because they get into a single fight after hours of pretty good exploration, and then a bad roll and they are dead.

I don't want to let up on a lethal setting, but at the same time, I would like them to be slightly more survivable without just leveling them up to 5 for them, or switching to a modern day system.

I know Scarlett Heroes exists, however, I have 4+ players, and I feel that it would give them far, far too much power.

As far as adventure design, I'm simply running modules at the moment. I want to let them survive a little bit better without having to rework the module as much as possible.

Any solutions?

>>53025413
How'd they get into a fight? Did they just charge in without trying to sneak around or negotiate?

OSR battles are supposed to be pretty lethal.

>>53025413
Give them GP.

>>53025413
>Any solutions?
Spend you money responsibly.
Buy Molotov. Hire chumps. Buy hounds. Buy poison.
Run or avoid fights. But if you must fight, fight dirty.

>>53025424

At first it was like that, but then I had an NPC character come in and start teaching them various ways to go about dungeon crawling, like >>53025477 is suggesting.

One of them went into a room without stopping to listen though, got bit by a snake, failed the poison saving throw, and died. The player took it reasonably well, but it was very obvious to say that he was massively butthurt about the abrupt death after it finally felt like they were getting somewhere.

I think some of it, though I'm reluctant to admit it, is that they might not have that "hacker" /security expert mentality that one kind of needs to excel at OSR D&D. And I'm starting to wonder if it's even teachable.

Am I just doomed to switch to 5e and let them stomp the adventure difficulty?

>>53025413
A) Do you like, balance your encounters for party size, or you roll # encountered btb?
B) Do you roll reaction?
C) Do you roll morale?
D) Do you drop rumors, have merchants selling one-shot OP and probably dangerous stuff? Like poison arrows, greek fire, half-tamed beasties, etc
E) Have you read the DMG?

>>53025548
>Am I just doomed to switch to 5e
If you don't like lethality, just houserule death rules. I bumped HD sized (F d10, C d8, T d6, MU d4) and that helped a lot.
Or make 0hp = ko instead of death.

But lethality is sweet. Make up shit for your players to care about, they will try harder and die less (and have more spectacular/tense deaths too!).
Also, always let them say some last words and have a blank sheet ready.

>>53025413
Do they run for danger?

>>53025548
>One of them went into a room without stopping to listen though
Now he knows that he shouldn't do that next time.

>I think some of it, though I'm reluctant to admit it, is that they might not have that "hacker" /security expert mentality that one kind of needs to excel at OSR D&D. And I'm starting to wonder if it's even teachable.
How many times have you played this game with them? How often have they died? Have they managed to gain any levels?