/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls General

File: viveczizek.jpg (34KB, 379x360px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 379x360px

>new thread
fantastic

File: 1493592154748.jpg (398KB, 1200x1521px) Image search: [Google]

398KB, 1200x1521px

If you could change some major element in TES lore, maybe going even pre-Morrowind, what would it be?

For me
>calling the Imperials "Cyrods" instead of "Imperials" and have the latter remains the name of anybody loyal to the Empire
>expand on the whole "druids of Galen" as alternative origin story instead of letting Bretons simply be descendants of concubines of the Altmer

>>53076407
>"druids of Galen"
Please explain

>>53077017
>druids of Galen
In Tes Arena there's a brief description of Bretons

"Thy race is descended from the ancient Druids of Galen, quick witted and strong in the mystical arts. Thy folks are crafty and intelligent, a learned people who use their gifts to guide others to enlightenment..."
And that's it. It could have been expanded upon.

Oh Father, dear, I often hear
You speak of Vvardenfell
Her lofty scenes, her valleys green
Her mountains rude and wild
They say it is a lovely land
Wherin a prince might dwell
Then why did you abandon it?
Oh, the reason to me tell

My son, I loved my my native land
with energy and pride
Till the blight came over all my crops
And my guar and mudcrabs died
The rents and taxes were to pay
And I could not them redeem
And that's the cruel reason
I left old Seyda Neen

Tis well I do remember
The bleak Hearthfire day
When the bailiff and the landlord came
To drive us all away
They set the roof on fire
With their cursed n'wah spleen
And that's another reason
I left old Seyda Neen

Oh your mother, Azura rest her soul
Lay on the snowy ground
She fainted in her anguishing
Seeing the desolation round
She never rose, but passed away
From life to mortal dreams
And found a quiet resting place
In dear old Seyda Neen

Oh, you were only two years old
And feeble was your frame
I could not leave you with my friends
For you bore your father's name
I wrapped you in my cote'amour
In the dead of night unseen
And I heaved a sigh, and I bade goodbye,
To dear old Seyda Neen

Oh, Father dear, the day will come
When on vengeance we will call
And Dunmer men, both stout and strong
Will rally unto the call
I'll be the man to lead the van
Beneath the flag of green
And loud on high, we'll raise the cry
"Revenge for Seyda Neen!"

I'm suddenly having issues with my modded Skyrim. The only major quests I have completed are The Horn of Jurgen Windcaller and Hail Sithis!, and after completing Hail Sithis!, my game has begun to CTD when trying to load a new area. This started when I tried to enter Hag's End, and continued to happen even if I attempted to save the game before entering Hag's End. Now, it happens again after I've entered the Dawnstar Sanctuary and attempt to leave the area.

I am using the original version of Skyrim, not Special Edition. I am using SKSE, so the script shouldn't be running out. I am using every bug, glitch, and crash fix the TESGeneral recommends. I use Wrye Bash to install and load my mods, I use LOOT to organize them correctly, and I've used guides on how to properly bash my patches and clean dirty edits with TES5Edit. I have not had a CTD happen until after I completed Hail Sithis!

Does anyone have any idea why this is happening?

File: 44922-7-1493673501.png (1MB, 1366x768px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1366x768px

>>53078620
This is not /vg/.

In other news, beta versions of Province: Cyrodiil and Skyrim: Home of the Nords got released this week! Embrace the lore.

File: pgtte_v3_high-rock.jpg (385KB, 578x806px) Image search: [Google]

385KB, 578x806px

>>53076407
>expand on the whole "druids of Galen" as alternative origin story instead of letting Bretons simply be descendants of concubines of the Altmer
It doesn't have to be an alternative - "Druids of Galen" could as well be pre-Direnni native Nedic Mannish population of High Rock.

Speaking of High Rock, do you guys have any cool lore- and otherwise related ideas you would want to be implemented in a video/tabletop game taking place there? Some interesting headcanons?

File: foolish creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of buying snacks.jpg (1MB, 1600x4500px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1600x4500px

>>53078852
Mimics.
They're chimeri in creation (proto-Telvanni experiment gone wrong), but they ended up on a ship to Hammerfell and have spread there and High Rock. They're actually quite docile and skittish normally, and are some sort of weird crustacean in their real forms, but their magical nature forcibly morphs them into containers appropriate for their surroundings.

>>53078852
King Dead Wolf-Deer.

>Stri'Ker, the Khajiit scholar, and a scholar named Mafafu travel to the High Rock to procure the antlers of the King Dead Wolf-Deer. Ainoryl gives information about the antlers, he says, "King Dead Wolf-Deer is one of the surviving monster-mer of the Wild Hunt that slew Borgas of Skyrim. He is thus one of the oldest creatures in Tamriel, and therefore no trifle. That he exists still to haunt High Rock thousands of years later speaks to the danger of retrieving his antler-crown."

File: PGE1 Aldmeri Dominion 4.jpg (117KB, 380x660px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 380x660px

>>53079194
This would actually be great.
Interestingly, by the time of PGE1 (Tiber Wars), KDWD was reported "stalking the Lympan March" in Valenwood.

>>53079253
The Lympan March also appears in...
http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1327164-better-is-a-better-word-the-lynpan-march/

>>53079301
So what, this marsh doesn't even exist anymore?
Most interesting.

>>53079363
Maybe it slid all the way to High Rock.

PGE2 is all kind of "adjacent place" crazy though.

>>53075715
How playable is the fanmade TES tabletop game (the one based on dark heresy)? I'd love to give it a try

>>53078852
I just want to perform my duties as a Knight of the Dragon, and socialize at the Temple of Kynareth. Probably take down a local witch coven, or some orc "mercenaries" we know they're just thugs. No pigfaces allowed in Daggerfall.

>>53079725
It's fully playable. There are still some more supplementary books coming out, though, I think.

File: 1434322420641.jpg (70KB, 200x733px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 200x733px

>>53078852
I think that the different groups within Highrock are interesting. The Bjoulsae Horse People in particular seem to be very interesting, and I really wish that there was more information about their culture other than fighting technique and concern with spirits. The Witchmen of the Reach also sounded a lot more interesting before Skyrim.

Shame that the only book we have about that is The Mirror, which is part of the reason it's one of my favorites.

>>53076407
"Imperials" are already the two races of "Colovian" and "Nibenese," I guess since they are physically similar they just take up one race slot in character creation.

>>53080389
>Elder Scrolls lore used to be this super deep thing with even a tiny area being populated by numerous ethnic groups with a believable local history and weird stuff like witchcraft and folk traditions rising from magic being the cornerstone of development, rather than magic just being an alternative to technology
>because they wanted to make a "highly detailed" (kind of bland and empty, but fully 3d rendered) world for morrowind they dumbed everything down to "there's like four groups and they're all fighting and you're the chosen one!!!"
>all of the interesting rough edges of the lore were just cut off and the edges polished to leave almost nothing but muh chim and muh dualism
>in subsequent games it's gone from four factions to two
>magic is just a very mechanical, fully understood thing, rather than a mostly understood thing that still has some whacky fringe shit involved
>loads of minor and even major deities aren't even mentioned again, or worse, are alluded to but mysteriously no trace of their actual cults (or any equivalent local cults remain after the years interceding Daggerfall and Morrowind, suggesting at best that everywhere but the Illiac Bay area has a washed out homogeneous culture and that that specific area is the only cool one
>dragons retconned extinct because they were too hard to animate as fully functioning enemies in morrowind (though that didn't stop them with literally every other creature in morrowind)
>retconned not-quite-extinct and immortal and coming back and nord culture retconned to be completely dragon-centric so Skyrim could key in on flavour of the month shit (par for the course after the retcon of Cyrodiil from jungle to shire, just even more cynical and depressing)
It's pretty disappointing imotbqhwyrnfyi.

>>53080599
You seem to be a little confused. TES pre-Morrowind isn't
>this super deep thing with even a tiny area being populated by numerous ethnic groups with a believable local history and weird stuff like witchcraft and folk traditions rising from magic being the cornerstone of development

What you're describing is TES circa Morrowind. The Mirror, for example, is from Morrowind. Despite Daggerfall taking place in a much larger worldspace, there is virtually no depth to any of the cultures in the game. All of this was brought to the table with the development of Morrowind and the release of Redguard and the PGE(1). Developers with a grasp of history and comparative religion took the reigns of the franchise. Disingenuously simplifying the plot of Morrowind isn't doing you any favors.
Everything else you're describing is a symptom of the game development process, never actually existed in any TES game, or are the faults of Bethesda that began largely after the release of Morrowind.

>>53080723
t morrowindbaby

Sorry mate but you're absolutely wrong. Go actually play Daggerfall. Morrowind is only deep or complex or detailed compared to Oblivion and Skyrim.

>>53076407
The "church" of the Eight Divines

>>53080599
Not sure how you got so misinformed, but it was Morrowind (and Redguard) that added so much depth to the world of Tamriel. In fact, compared to the rest of the world it's the Iliac By area that is the most homogenized. Daggerfall era lore was extremely shallow in every respect except the politics of Wayrest/Sentinel/Daggerfall. It wasn't until Redguard/Morrowind that we got all the sub-cultures and detailed history to most races and provinces. Before that there was no Imperial races of any sort, no concept of dragonborns or thu'um, no hist, no Anequina and Pellitine nations or Khajiit moon cycle connection, and most interestingly of all not even the goddamned Bjoulsae Horse People in the post you quoted that triggered your complaints. All of the above and so much more unmentioned is Morrowind-era lore.

Hell, even parts of the Iliac Bay itself having any semblance of unique culture and their own minor dieties is Morrowind-era lore. Satakalam for example was just a country in Hammerfell, same as all the others. It wasn't until Morrowind's "Varieties of Faith" and Redguard's pocket guide that the serpent gof Satakal was introduced to the lore, with some of his most devoted followers greusomely shedding their own skin, getting on the ground, and slithering great distances like snakes. Daggerfall-era Hammerfell didn't have gods like that or their Redguard Pantheon of Tall Papa and his children. Instead, they had the same gods as everyone else with temples to specific divines strewn across the landscape, being the same as High Rock when it comes to culture in every way except for architecture.

>>53082711
Morrowind added breadth, not depth. It took a single story and like three metaphysical concepts (lifted directly from the works of Aleister Crowley) and spread them across an entire continent. Broad as an ocean, deep as a puddle.

>>53082604
Not him (I'm >>53082711), but I've played the fuck out of Daggerfall and read every single book in the game. It's my favorite in the series when it comes to gameplay. I even went and added word-wrapping to the many books that had words running off the pages so I could fully read them in-game.

But when it comes to lore, history, cultures, religions, Daggerfall has virtually no "depth" or "complexity" compared to the later games and especially Morrowind.

>>53082896
I wonder if you've even played Morrowind or read any of its dialogue or books because that CHIM and other metaphysical bullshit isn't even 5% of what it added to the lore. I'm talking about actual history, culture, heroes, and conflicts for all of Tamriel's civilizations, including the ones in High Rock and Hammerfell. Morrowind's depth dwarfs Daggerfall's in that regard. Even comparing ONLY the Dunmer as presented in Morrowind to the Bretons and Redguards as presented in Daggerfall, it's not even close.

>>53082896
I think you got the definitions of "depth" and "breadth" completely reversed up somehow, friend. Daggerfall is the broad one, with 20+ countries but only two cultures between them, with all Bretons having the same names, style of dress, and architecture and all Redguards having their own. And that's where the distinctions end since both Bretons and Redguards all have the same factions, quests, dialogue, etc.

There's also the Orc stronghold with its handful of quests as part of the main quest, and the Witch Covens dotted across the landscape which all, again, say the same exact things and offer the same quests between each other. Same story with the vampire clans, all the same except in name and stat bonuses.

Morrowind, on the other hand, is the deep one, with a focus on one island in one nation and going into great detail on the many cultures of its natives, and their relationshios with the historic Nord invaders and the modern Imperial colonists. Even the vampire clans have their own unique quests and dialogue. This is actually a perfect example of bredth vs. depth since we can see that both Daggerfall and Morrowind have the same amount of total vampire content. Daggerfall chose to put it all into a pool shared by its several clans, while Morrowind chose to split it between three clans to give them each their own unique characters and quests.

>>53083252
Another good example of breadth vs. depth is in how they handled gods. Daggerfall had eight gods, ostensibly each being their own religion with temples dedicated to them, and several knightly orders to serve the royal families of certain areas. Of course the knightly orders are all exactly the same in every way except for their location, and the Temples are all the same except for one unique quest per temple; all other quests are generic "religious" quests shared by every single temple. Three of the eight temples also offer services not found in the others, which is at least more than we can say for the knightly orders.

Morrowind, again, chose to sacrifice Daggerfall's breadth in the service of added depth. The Knightly Orders were all consolidated into the Imperial Legion, with a similar amount of content but all of it is unique to specific forts and deal with the legion's interests in each area. Likewise, the eight temples were consolidated into one religion that worships all of them, but offers unique quests, some of which are in service to a specific divine while others, as in Daggerfall, are more general to all of them.

Then they added something that had no analogue in Daggerfall: a totally different religion with its own unique beliefs, worshippers, and quests. To join them you go on a pilgrimage around the world, learning about how they came to be and their judeo-christian-esque relationship to their predecessor religion which is still followed by ashlanders and researched by dissident priests.

Even that one new religion has more depth than all of Daggerfall's religious factions combined, and they included them in addition to Morrowind's analogue and expansion of those religions: the Imperial Cult.

They also added the political factions of the great houses, once again having no analogue in Daggerfall. Indeed, Morrowind actually has more joinable factions than its predecessor when you account for the copy-pasted Daggerfall temples and orders.

https://pastebin.com/U6ph0g5c

And that's without going into dialogue, actual events of the story, factions you can join (such as knightly orders) and their descriptions, the various witches' covens, the different attitudes of each region's royal court and so forth- The gameplay was very shallow, and for instance every knightly order boiled down to radiant quests, but the narrative was vastly deep. Morrowind had five guilds, three houses, three vampiric orders, of which one of each (three guilds for stealth) were slight flavour variations on the same core principles, and the tribunal vs the imperial cult.

Pretty much all Morrowind sports of its own that it doesn't at least ideologically owe to Daggerfall is the 36 Lessons, and even those not for the lore they introduce (which is extremely shallow and frankly kind of lame, it's literally just a couple of basic mental shits lifted off of Crowley) but for the way it is written, as a kind of novella-length riddle with many cleverly intertwined parts and hidden messages. Redguard isn't as bad, but it's still panning out to "big picture with some really homogeneous metaphysical theology" instead of the insane attention to detail and cohesion that Daggerfall's lore got. Daggerfall made Tamriel feel like a place that had been populated with various interacting civilisations for thousands of years like the Mediterranean, Morrowind onward make it feel like it's a single young nation that supplanted the local population a few hundred years ago like the United States. Morrowind itself actually has an excuse for this, to be fair, in that it actually takes place on Vvardenfell which has only (relatively) recently been colonised by anything but dwarves. The PGE was a great outline or teaser for the regions (or would have been, if they actually regarded it as much as they should), but it ultimately did not add much depth.

What is the best magical discipline and why is it alchemy?

>>53083749
>Daggerfall had eight gods
Daggerfall had far more than that.

Anyway, you're talking about gameplay depth, not lore depth. An understandable mistake, but not relevant here. If we're gonna talk about gameplay depth, especially in terms of quest flavour, the series definitely peaked in Oblivion. If you want a happy medium I guess Morrowind's your best bet.

>>53084293
>Daggerfall had far more than that.
Not him but I think he was referring to the temple factions

>>53084293
>series peaked in Oblivion for gameplay depth
>no levitation
>no mysticism
>no spears
>half the guilds are complete shit, and there are only 4 of them

I know it was probably your first exposure to the TES series babby, but don't be retarded.

>>53084321
Oh, yeah, I kinda see what he means there. It's just poor wording.

>>53084336
>no levitation
Only valid point tbqh. I understand why they axed it but it's still lame and just another reason this series doesn't belong on consoles, that is unfortunately vastly outweighed by the counterpoint of, "$$$$$."

>no mysticism
You're thinking of Skyrim. Obliivon just lacks thaumaturgy, which Morrowind also lacks.

>no spears
Those aren't even gameplay depth, they're cosmetic depth. In Morrowind they are functionally no different from any other melee weapon except in slight adjustments to the attack rate and reach modifiers, where they're like a faster but weaker greatsword, because the combat is so archaic. At least in Oblivion you can mod spears with their own animations in and even have them have reasonable hitboxes. In both Morrowind and Skyrim that is, as far as I know, still impossible even with mods.

>half the guilds are complete shit, and there are only 4 of them
Which guilds do you think are shit, out of curiosity? Gonna go out on a limb and guess mages and fighters, simply on the basis that they aren't as brilliant as the stealth-themed guilds and a lot of people are understandably bitter about Mannimarco's treatment in the mages guild (though I'm pretty sure most of those people are either people, like me, that prefer Daggerfall, or people who look for any excuse to complain).

>I know it was probably your first exposure to the TES series babby
Daggerfall was.
>Morrowhiner this butthurt that someone more veteran thinks of his first game the same way he apparently thinks of Oblivion
How amusing!

>>53084570
>You're thinking of Skyrim. Obliivon just lacks thaumaturgy, which Morrowind also lacks.

My mistake.

>Those aren't even gameplay depth, they're cosmetic depth. In Morrowind they are functionally no different from any other melee weapon except in slight adjustments to the attack rate and reach modifiers, where they're like a faster but weaker greatsword, because the combat is so archaic. At least in Oblivion you can mod spears with their own animations in and even have them have reasonable hitboxes. In both Morrowind and Skyrim that is, as far as I know, still impossible even with mods.

Collapsing weapons into each other is losing depth.

>Which guilds do you think are shit, out of curiosity? Gonna go out on a limb and guess mages and fighters, simply on the basis that they aren't as brilliant as the stealth-themed guilds and a lot of people are understandably bitter about Mannimarco's treatment in the mages guild (though I'm pretty sure most of those people are either people, like me, that prefer Daggerfall, or people who look for any excuse to complain).

You guessed it right. But consider: oblivion's quest lines were shallow as shit for the most part, with you going from the new guy to guild leader in 2 or 3 days. The story in the Mages and Fighter's guilds sucked ass too. Morrowind had longer, and more in depth questlines in general.

>Morrowhiner this butthurt that someone more veteran thinks of his first game the same way he apparently thinks of Oblivion
I started with arena moron.

File: 1493751618804.png (4MB, 1000x3507px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 1000x3507px

Which one /tg/?

>>53084727
The only ones I can think of that haven't betrayed their servants are Malacath and Mehrunes Dagon.

>>53084695
>Collapsing weapons into each other is losing depth.
It isn't. This is a myth perpetuated by whiners who like to make-believe that Morrowind was the greatest game of all time. It is usually also applied to skills, which is ironic given that Daggerfall had something like twice as many skills as Morrowind.

The Morrowhiner thus confronted will usually reply with a phrase like, "m-m-muh language skills!" ignoring the hypocrisy- While some skills and weapon classifications were removed going from Morrowind to Oblivion, utility was generally gained rather than lost (with the exception of levitation and lock being removed). Even if you consider every language skill one collective lost skill, more was actually lost going from Daggerfall to Morrowind than from Morrowind to Oblivion, though Morrowind made up for that with its factions having actual, non-radiant quests (something Skyrim finally regressed on lmao).

The fact is, spears played no differently from any other weapon, and nothing that wasn't purely cosmetic was lost in removing them.

>oblivion's quest lines were shallow as shit for the most part, with you going from the new guy to guild leader in 2 or 3 days
Certainly not 2 or 3 in-game days. Sounds like you're thinking of Skyrim again.

Two of Oblivion's guild questlines (assassin's guild and fighter's guild) were very linear. Mage's was open ended as fuck to begin with and then got linear, following the pattern of Morrowind guilds, while thieves was fairly linear but was uniquely the only guild that had a sort of hidden progress bar based on your actions, meaning a major component was the actual open-ended experience of stealing and fencing shit to gain reputation. However, where Morrowind's factions were generally less linear, they were less linear in the same sense the mages guild in Oblivion is- You could do a couple of quests at each of a few locations, and once you'd done them all you could do the short chain of quests to become the guild head.

File: fuckingtumblrnose.png (187KB, 428x452px) Image search: [Google]

187KB, 428x452px

>>53084727
Boethia all the way baby

>>53084727
>posting a picture with meridia
thread rules say no waifus

I'm so fucking sorry, but I need to post this.
https://youtu.be/S9JDf8Ch5vE?list=FLF0cYWZMWhbtEk_qw57hG-A

>>53084944
>FEED ME MER
gets me every time, I miss when Brave wasn't a lame-o

File: The Blind God.png (60KB, 1600x1200px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 1600x1200px

>>53084293
Well, not "far" more, but it did have more gods mentioned in books. Ebonarm is probably the most famous as the god of war, and there's Jephre who later got expanded into Y'ffre. There was also that weird Blind God thing in the final dungeon which we never learned more about but was pretty cool looking. Ius was something of a meta-joke but that's a god too. Redguard's Pocket Guide and Morrowind's many religious texts added many many more gods and pantheons that were never even conceived of in Daggerfall's time, however.

If your point is that Daggerfall's lore is unfairly ignored by self-proclaimed TES lore buffs, then I'm right there with you. It is in many ways the genesis of Tamriel as we know it. Ted Peterson for his writings in Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Oblivion is by far the most important writer in the series, with the much-overrated Kirkbride landing second or third.

But it's a complete falsehood to say that Tamriel's lore at the time of Daggerfall was more complex or deep than Morrowind's. The fact that Daggerfall touched on so many concepts that only went into much greater depth later is exactly what the whole breadth and depth thing really means. Daggerfall threw a lot of ideas out there and Redguard, Morrowind, and to a lesser extent Oblivion and Skyrim took a bunch of them and fleshed them out.

It also bears mentioning that while Daggerfall did go into a lot of detail about Redguard history, the majority of it by the time of Morrowind was added in Redguard itself rather than lifted straight from Daggerfall's books as you suggest. Hunding and Leki were just names of heroes rather than the incarnation of a god and the namesake of a lesser Redguard deity, respectively. The Ra Gada and their eventual split into the Forebears vs. the traditional Crowns and then the nomadic Yokudans that cling to old traditions are all inventions of the game Redguard, not Daggerfall. Yokuda itself having been destroyed/sunk was also a post-Daggerfall invention.

>>53084944
pelinal lost but divayth's song made up for it

>>53084944
Pelin-el memes are the worst.

>>53085190
You lost? Elves aren't welcome here.

>>53084254
>mantling
No, that's totally a Morrowind thing. Daggerfall just had a book that described how Arkay used to be mortal. That's a very different concept than becoming so similar to an existing entity that the universe forgets your distinctions in the first place. You could make it fit Baan Dar, which was kind of a robinhood figure mentioned in Daggerfall who recruits people to take on his name and carry on his legacy, and those people then do the same to others. You can take the new concept of mantling and retroactively apply it to Daggerfall's more mundane apotheosis/anonymous hero stories, but in doing so you have to accept that the depth was added after Daggerfall, not during.

Likewise with Numidium, which was a massive golem powered by a dead battlemage's heart. The idea that it's a reality-denying construct that literally breaks time (and the resulting warp in the west that retroactively explained how Daggerfall's endings worked moving forward) is 100% Morrowind lore.

As for
>Conflict of the Imperial Cult with fringe cults
you're really stretching it, especially considering there was no Imperial Cult in Daggerfall but rather separate temples to each individual deity. Some of them were allied with each other and some were even enemies, with inter-faction relationships rerolling every in-game year. There were some fun quests in Daggerfall with false prophets and all that, and obviously witches exist, but very little about them is revealed in the game (they don't even have dialogue entries to ask about like most other factions) besides the fact that they can commune with Daedra.

Your accusation that all or most of Morrowind's lore - it being the game that ADDED more books to the series than any other including Daggerfall - is derivative of Daggerfall is completely empty. Unless you want to accept that all of Daggerfall's lore is derivative of Arena, that because Arena's manual mentioned "The Underking" all of Daggerfall's main quest must be unoriginal.

>>53079156
I want this so bad. I love mimics and often implement them in my table top games even when they're not official.

>>53085035
>with the much-overrated Kirkbride landing second or third.
I would say third, there's also Kuhlmann.

>The fact that Daggerfall touched on so many concepts that only went into much greater depth later is exactly what the whole breadth and depth thing really means.
I can see where you're coming from here, but really all they took and greatly expanded upon was the relationship of Anu/Padomay (and made everything about that) and the origin of Numidium. Every distinct culture, obliterated; Now they're all just arguing about whether Anu or Padomay is cooler. Minor religious sects? Maybe on ancient yokuda, fuck those! And god forbid anything NOT metaphysical have any depth whatsoever. Everybody knows counts and lords and so forth exist only as more centralised questgivers, any retard can walk into their courtroom and they'll speak to them as equals even if they're autistic mongoloids, and the deepest any intrigue goes is a strict Us versus Them, with one side clearly in the wrong except on like one REALLY CRUCIAL point (rather than crafting the story around something believable and intriguing- The cardinal rule of writing for post-Daggerfall TES seems to be "is it a shallow one-dimensional plot device?" If not, "Is it CHIM?" If not, fucking ditch it).

When you reuse one actually-pretty-basic concept or story over and over, the syncretism that arises can be interesting, but only in a wholly fleshed-out setting, which modern TES no longer is. What it is is extremely shallow, and actually a very lazy way to make sure you don't accidentally make your lore inconsistent- Which they fail in every game regardless, introducing pointless retcons that ultimately just make things lamer and more boring.

>>53085875
>And god forbid anything NOT metaphysical have any depth whatsoever. Everybody knows counts and lords and so forth exist only as more centralised questgivers, any retard can walk into their courtroom and they'll speak to them as equals even if they're autistic mongoloids, and the deepest any intrigue goes is a strict Us versus Them, with one side clearly in the wrong except on like one REALLY CRUCIAL point (rather than crafting the story around something believable and intriguing-
Dude, morrowind had a shit ton of depth to the politics.

File: iron golem.gif (27KB, 123x116px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 123x116px

>>53076407
I would bring back Golems.

>>53084870
>The fact is, spears played no differently from any other weapon, and nothing that wasn't purely cosmetic was lost in removing them.
This is completely wrong. Morrowind was actually the first game in the series to have any differences between weapons types the first place. In Daggerfall all weapons really were cosmetic except versus skeletons who were resistant to blades, and if you weren't using the one with the most damage you were simply using the wrong one. The directional attacks also had the same use between each weapon, leading to silly things like "thrusting" your flail or hammer for optimal accuracy. In Morrowind they all have different swing speed, fatigue cost, and optimal attack direction. For a handful of them that optimal direction will even change based on whether you're attacking lightly or fully charging - another mechanic that did not exist in Daggerfall where you had no control over the strength of your attacks. Morrowind's thrown weapons opened up the option for ranged + shield, which no other game in the series supports.

But this is a special point for spears because they had a unique quality among melee weapons in Morrowind: much longer range. Fighting optimally with a spear was a tactic that almost felt like jousting and was reminiscent to how all melee combat played in Daggerfall: Poke, retreat, poke, retreat, relying on the staggers and knockdowns to keep your enemy out of range.

As for the skill argument, Daggerfall did not have "twice as many" skills as Morrowind, it had eight more. Considering that nine of Daggerfall's skills were those languages you mentioned... well, you can do the math. Game mechanics are beyond the scope of this thread and this post is running out of space but it suffices to say that a lot more gameplay utility was gained in Morrowind from Daggerfall than in Oblivion from Morrowind.

>>53076407
Sload would have their own country and be a major political force and playable race.

>>53085523
>No, that's totally a Morrowind thing.
The Mantella is literally called that because it is the mantle that the Underking passes on, the stone bearing his divine soul. That is what I was referring to, not the apotheosis of Arkay. "Becoming so similar to an existing entity that the universe forgets your distinctions in the first place" also doesn't come from the games' lore at all, it's how mantling is usually described to people new to the lore so they'll get it. It is really just the station of godhood being ritually and officially handed down from a deity to a mortal (as happens in Shivering Isles), the misconception/overcomplication coming from Tiber Septim saying "walk like them until they must walk like you" in an apocryphal tidbit by MK. It is really just an allusion to the place the term "mantling" or "passing on the mantle" comes from IRL (2 Kings 2:13-16).

>The idea that it's a reality-denying construct that literally breaks time
Numidium as a golem that runs on the soul of a minor deity is just as impressive as "that, except it also fucks up time so we don't have to be creative or commit to anything, and I guess we also don't have to actually have dwarves now cus we can just say it wiped them out too instead of one clan of them being hunted by goblins haha."

>you're really stretching it, especially considering there was no Imperial Cult
They were still the central religious figures, with the others being heretical or heathen (including the Daedra). "The Imperial Cult" is a convenient moniker that is more wieldy than "the cults of the eight divines."

>Your accusation that all or most of Morrowind's lore - it being the game that ADDED more books to the series
Except almost everything it added is just about Anu and Padomay, plus the 36 lessons (which are also largely about anu and padomay). It took one minor, unusually cliche book from Daggerfall and made the whole setting about it.

>>53085968
>Dude, morrowind had a shit ton of depth to the politics.
I must have not turned over the single pointy volcanic stone most of it was hiding under then. All I saw was "all the houses hate the other houses... but they hate the empire more......... ur alright tho kid.."

>>53084254
>insane attention to detail and cohesion that Daggerfall's lore got
You can describe Daggerfall in a whole lot of ways, but "insane attention to detail" might be the furthest from the truth you could possibly choose, especially in comparison to any other TES game besides Arena and mobile spinoffs. Daggerfall is the definition of quantity over quality, having as many people, places, and things as an RPG can with as little detail, connections, and exploration of them as necessary.

>>53086155
>This is completely wrong. Morrowind was actually the first game in the series to have any differences between weapons types the first place.
>another mechanic that did not exist in Daggerfall where you had no control over the strength of your attacks.
Uh, no? In Morrowind different weapon types have different reach, attack speed and damage values on equivalent items (eg daedric items that are shorter/slower will usually have more damage). Unless you roll a very high-speed character (in which case spears are the best simply because their reach allows you to continue hitting an enemy while backpedaling out of their reach), the weapons all function the same- Walk up to an enemy, press m1, repeat until one of you is dead. In Daggerfall, the weapons differ by, you guess it, reach, attack speed and damage. Daggers attack very rapidly for light damage right on an enemy, warhammers move as if through syrup but can hit fairly far away and do large damage per hit.

In fact the one difference Morrowind DID add works exclusively to its detriment. Different weapon types get the most damage, with no accuracy penalty, with different types of attack. In Daggerfall, different attacks were instead a power/accuracy tradeoff, meaning there was an aspect of gambling and also strategising in terms of character build around it. Downward chops had shit accuracy but did huge damage- So if your agility was high enough to always hit regardless? Hell yeah, always use them. But early on when even a thief's agility is low, eh, consider stabbing so you're actually doing consistent damage... Unless the enemy is dangerous and you need to kill it in one hit or not at all. Morrowind has none of that, because every weapon has one optimal attack, so it is all just spam m1.

Seriously, I'm shocked that you deign to argue on this subject when you didn't know the different attacks in Daggerfall are a power/accuracy tradeoff, that's some really basic shit.

>>53086155
>>53086596
>As for the skill argument, Daggerfall did not have "twice as many" skills as Morrowind, it had eight more.
My bad, it's been a minute since I've actually seen someone bring up the "streamlining is bad" argument in Morrowind's favour so it's also been a while since I've compared them. The point about hypocrisy remains- Condensing such "redundant" skills that do the same exact thing but in cosmetically different situations, by my figuring Daggerfall has 20 practical skills while Morrowind has 18 and Oblivion has 18.

Oblivion also had...
>a dodge button
>active blocking
>a minigame, however shitty, for speechcraft, instead of just spamming a mouseclick
>weapon movesets (ie different things with different hitboxes and effects you can do with weapons besides just damage taps ad nauseum)
>skill-dependent perks (eg skipping across water, parrying, dodging, aerial combat)
>arrow physics, generally better ranged options in every way
>magic that wasn't the least intuitive shit to actually use (maybe you don't remember playing Morrowind without the fanmade code patch, but I do)
and what I was originally talking about, which is way, way better sidequests and quest writing, since it was a question of Daggerfall's knightly orders being just the bullshit Toddler now sells as "radiant" as compared to Morrowind at least having a small unique blurb about each of the (mostly functionally identical) fetch quests you do for all the guilds.

What did Morrowind actually ADD compared to Daggerfall, rather than taking away? Apart from the sidequest dialogue thing, obviously. Everything you listed already is false, and I'm having trouble coming up with anything to play double's advocate, so...

>>53086612
What dodge button? What did the different power attacks do besides damage taps? Aerial combat? I'm pretty sure you're talking about modded oblivion.

>>53086596
>In Daggerfall, the weapons differ by, you guess it, reach, attack speed and damage. Daggers attack very rapidly for light damage right on an enemy, warhammers move as if through syrup but can hit fairly far away and do large damage per hit.
I'm sorry, but literally every single thing you just said here is a lie. Maybe you were simply mistaken or have memory-merged with the later games, but all Daggerfall weapons have the same reach and attack speed - only your Speed attribute affects that. The only difference is damage (and again, whether they're bladed or not in the case of skeletons). Daggers being fast and warhammers being slow and all the weapons in between is a mechanic first introduced in Morrowind and carried over to all later games. In Daggerfall the only difference between using your fists, a dagger, or a two-handed war axe is the damage per swing.

>Seriously, I'm shocked that you deign to argue on this subject when you didn't know the different attacks in Daggerfall are a power/accuracy tradeoff, that's some really basic shit.
I don't know where you got that idea or if you even read my post. Did you not see:
>The directional attacks also had the same use between each weapon, leading to silly things like "thrusting" your flail or hammer for optimal accuracy.

>>53086923
The dodge button unlocks with an acrobatics perk. Power attacks can paralyze or disarm and maybe some other effects I've forgotten.

>>53086939
and the aerial combat? None of the things you've mentioned so far actually changed gameplay in oblivion. most of them were worthless.

>>53085998
I don't really think golems have been removed from the lore, they're just not needed with Centurions and Atronachs already there.

>>53086923
>What dodge button?
Block and jump while holding a direction with sufficiently high acrobatics. It's a monster hunter style tucknroll. People overlook it probably because 1: it requires 50+ in acrobatics and 2: like every bit of advice on the internet for the game is "don't reply to acrobatics, hide acrobatics from major skills, report acrobats." Acrobatics is also the skill that allows you to skip across liquids, not just water but lava too, and jump high enough to clear most enemies' heads. Acrobatics was godtier in Oblivion.

>What did the different power attacks do besides damage taps?
Forward power attacks could paralyze, backward power attacks could knock opponents down, sideways power attacks could disarm them. Also reliant on perks, or else they would just be different animations.

>Aerial combat?
Until you have 25+ acrobatics you cannot attack in midair. You gain the ability to do aerial power attacks at the same time you gain the dodge roll, 50+.

This is all vanilla. Go check the skill pages on UESP if you're too gay to try it in-game, at least with console commands or something.

>>53086939
>Maybe you were simply mistaken or have memory-merged with the later games, but all Daggerfall weapons have the same reach and attack speed - only your Speed attribute affects that.
I was literally playing this morning and could have sworn you were wrong but yeah, you're right on that, just tested it out.

>I don't know where you got that idea or if you even read my post. Did you not see:
skimming and the fact that you said
>For a handful of them that optimal direction will even change based on whether you're attacking lightly or fully charging - another mechanic that did not exist in Daggerfall where you had no control over the strength of your attacks.
Though I see now that I misunderstood and you were talking about power vs light attacks (which are like a dumbed down version of the three attacks Daggerfall had).

>>53087331
>dodge button
Yeah, that sucks. There's never a situation where you are better off dodging instead of moving to the side normally while blocking.
>walking across water
Yeah, a spell you can get at novice level lets you do that anyways
>aerial combat
Oh, you meant jumping and attacking. No, that wasn't useful.
Acrobatics was shit.

>>53087408
>There's never a situation where you are better off dodging instead of moving to the side normally while blocking.
Except using a bow or other twohander and, you know, getting out of the way of a weapon swing. It's not even hard against slower weapons.

>Yeah, a spell you can get at novice level lets you do that anyways
It's another option, and one that is not nearly as cool or player skill based. More importantly, it doesn't let you skip across lava without taking damage.

Unsurprisingly, like most people that claim Oblivion is so much worse than Morrowind in every conceivable way, you appear to have never actually played it. Go figure.

>>53087465
Not that guy, but I played Oblivion and can confirm it's shit. The Oblivion gates were cool the first time or two, but other than that it's constant dialogue about mudcrabs, potato head models, playing second fiddle to the actual main character, no custom spells/enchantments out of the gate, short guild storylines, etc. etc. etc.

The Dwemer armor design was pretty neat, and the combat does feel more visceral/reactive/meaty than Skyrim's, but that's not really saying a lot.

>>53087870
There's like two opportunities where you raid a gate with other guards.
There should have been more of that. Especially since more patrols are on the roads now.

File: confused looking dunmer girls with interrogation marks on their heads.jpg (37KB, 200x228px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 200x228px

>Daggerfall has more depth than Morrowind

>>53087465
>>53087870
It's been a VERY long time since I played oblivion but I didn't think it felt very meaty.

>>53087408
Still made you feel superhuman, though not quite as superhuman as Morrowind. And you're forgetting the lava-skipping part.

>>53089148
Okay. Oblivion gave you the ability to jump on water and took away the ability to jump over mountains, lakes, rivers, walls, and everything else. Not worth it.

>>53089184
The reduction in magical ways to boost acrobatics *DID* suck. (Is it even theoretically possible with mods by the way? Or did fortifyacrobatics not do anything past a certain cap?)

>>53089184
>took away the ability to jump over mountains, lakes, rivers, walls, and everything else
It didn't. You can still boost stats far past 100 with alchemy. In fact the only games you can't do that in are Arena and Skyrim. And Skyrim has an alternate method that's a lot longer and more tedious, though it doesn't have an acrobatics skill to boost. The "fact" that that was taken out is just more misinfo from poorly-informed morrowhiners.

>>53089241
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBY6mlvB9B4
this is officially the least shitty oblivion superjump video in existence as verified by me searching for like two whole minutes, skip to like 2:25 for the good stuff. Not sure if it still does but back then UESP even had guides on doing the superjump and other absurd combo spells that let you break reality on touch. IIRC with spell loops you can reach far more busted values than these as well.

In Skyrim you can no longer do a superjump on console since there's no acrobatics skill, unless you set up something really wacky and clever (iirc there's a way to reflect magic on yourself and combine the freeze shout with a well timed jump to sort of physics glitch into the sky forever, or maybe it's just getting hit by the shout from a dragon priest that can do it), but since its method to boost skills far past the point they're intended to be boosted involves enchanting, you get the effects permanently. Basically console-free godmode, complete with 0 shout cooldown.

Admittedly he was probably talking about the Scroll of Icarian Flight as if it's not a fucking easter egg as opposed to a mechanic WAD

>>53089446
IIRC the only ways to boost past 100 in oblivion are glitches.

>>53089483
>>53089446
Morrowind had the jump spell, and fortify acrobatics, both of which enabled jumping over the mountains of vvardenfell without resorting to gameplay bugs.

>>53089446
I honestly just consoled myself scrolls because I'm a lazy piece of shit who missed his babbymode fast travel (I almost never used them to explore *NEW* places, just places I'd already been.) and I didn't want to use recursive alchemy.

>>53089483
Only if you consider looping fortification effects to get insane stat values to be a glitch. Which, incidentally, is also the way it was usually done in morrowind.

I may be misremembering for daggerfall because I also remember you could absorb your own aoe destruction spells for infinite magicka, so I might just be thinking of that + levitate to fly forever.

>>53089510
I always just install the mod that gives you multiple mark/recalls now. Doing a playthrough where you get the physical map out and actually look at it to plan a course and keep notes on which towns have which transport going to where is pretty fun and immersive once or twice but since then it's just been a drag that makes me want to put the game down even faster.

>>53089542
No, the only method to do it in oblivion was the following:
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Spell_Making#Spell_Stacking

Notably, this method was considered a bug, and removed.

Fortify wouldn't work to enable super jumping (or the kinds of jumping shenanigans you can do in Morrowind). Fortify Skill doesn't have any effect past 100 on every skill except for Athletics and Acrobatics. This means it is impossible to establish a fortify skill loop past a certain point, without using the weakness to magicka exploit.

Learn your shit.

>>53089625
I'm positive that's false, because I played Oblivion late (2009) and on the most recent patch at the time I could still superjump and cross the continent in a few seconds (not including ridiculous buffering times) by fortifying speed and acrobatics. You say skill, does it apply the same limit to attributes? Because speed also influences jump height iirc.

>>53089625
But it DOES still work on Acrobatics and Athletics?

>>53089625
>>53089666
Okay, nevermind, I see what you're saying. Not impossible to boost acrobatics that high, just "impossible" to loop fortify attribute that high without the weakness to magicka stack.

Except the video I linked does not use that method, and if it was patched out, obviously neither did I.

>>53089716
yes, but without establishing a loop, you can't fortify acrobatics high enough to produce a super jump.

>>53089772
The video you linked does show the method used. He shows his active magic effects, which include weakness to magic, fortify acrobatics, athletics, and speed. He clearly used the weakness to magicka bug. And you either don't remember using it (likely, memory is faulty), cheated with a mod, or weren't playing a fully up to date game.

>>53089846
What is/was the loop?

>>53089846
Definitely not a mod, I didn't start fucking with mods in Oblivion until like a month before Skyrim came out. Not up to date I doubt but I guess it's possible? I'd go test it now but my current installs are both heavily modded.

>>53089881
>Loop 1:
>Weakness to Magic 100% for 5 secs on Self
>Loop 2:
>Weakness to Magic 100% for 5 secs on Self
>Boost Spell:
>Weakness to Frost 3% for 1 secs on Self
>Fortify Health 50 pts for 120 secs on Self

Cast Loop 1 and 2 alternating between them for a few times. They each get boosted by the other's weakness to magicka because of an oversight. Each time your weakness to magicka jumps up an absurd amount, until you're in the thousands, or tens of thousands. Then cast the boost spell. Because the boost spell is technically harmful, all of its effects get amplified by the weakness to magicka, including the beneficial ones. You end up with an arbitrarily high number of whatever stat you boosted.

Later, Bethesda patched it so weakness to magicka doesn't amplify self casted spells.

>>53089947
That's a shame, also damn risky if you get nailed with frost.

>>53084727
Boethiah is indeed the Anticipation of Vivec, yeah? Or is that Mephala?

>>53090005
Mephala -> Vivec
Boethiah -> Almalexia
Azura -> Sotha Sil

File: Breton mage.jpg (193KB, 800x1051px) Image search: [Google]

193KB, 800x1051px

>game mechanic autism
Please fuck off back to /vg/.

>>53080389
From what I gater, High Rock has:
- Bjoulsae Nomads
- Western Reachmen
- Tribal Orcs
- Neo-orcs
- Isolated High Elven clans
as distinct ethnic/cultural minorities.
Other than that though:

>Although the Bretons are divided into numerous mutually antagonistic factions, to the outsider a singular uniformity in dress, architecture, and customs prevails throughout the land. Bretons are not an imaginative people, a legacy of the Elves, perhaps, and traditional ways are not lightly abandoned. Their villages are pleasant collections of half-timbered structures of one or two stories, with the rustic inn, a shop or two, and perhaps a lordly manor completing the picture. The traveler need not visit more than a handful of Breton communities before satisfying himself that he has captured the flavor of the whole. The people, too, despite their cherished particularism, are remarkably similar in name, accent, and dress throughout the province. It may be that this unacknowledged homogeneity bodes well for the future harmony of High Rock.

>>53090005
Skyrim sort of messed up the symbolism by having boethiah represented as female. Mephala is not explicitly male or female, though she is generally regarded as more feminine than masculine the same way Vivec is neither but is generally regarded as more masculine than feminine, while seht and ayem are matched with the princes of the opposite gender.

>>53090038
Thank you. I nearly forgot those ...precursors due to my love of ALMSIVI

File: ashlanders hunting netch.jpg (268KB, 1159x851px) Image search: [Google]

268KB, 1159x851px

>>53090244
>worshipping the Three-Faced Devil
Veloth weeps for you.

>>53090219
>Skyrim sort of messed up the symbolism by having boethiah represented as female.
Does Skyrim interpretation even matter? Might just be a regional difference.

>>53084800
>The only ones I can think of that haven't betrayed their servants are Malacath and Mehrunes Dagon.
Malacath has been tricked into betraying his own son.

And have a look at Mankar Camoran's "Paradise."

>>53087046
Golems were more or less shoved out of the lore in favor of atronachs as early as Daggerfall. You get the occasional use of the term when referring to Dwemer constructs like Numidium, but that's it.
I don't even care if they're made out to be an abandoned practice or something, I just want them to be fucking acknowledged in someway.

>>53084727
Meridia is the only one worth your time, maybe Azura. Everyone else will fuck you over eventually but in truth they all fucking suck, each and every one of them.

>>53090219
Boethiah has been refered to as female all the way back in Daggerfall.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Invocation_of_Azura_(Daggerfall)

>>53086226
>it's how mantling is usually described to people new to the lore so they'll get it.
But that's literally more obtuse than the simple inheritance you described, and also doesn't exactly apply to the Nerevarine's retroactive soul-share.

>>53090365
>Meridia is the only one worth your time
When will the Meridia wanking stop? Just because she has a hateboner for undead doesn't mean she's benevolent.

>>53086226
>>Your accusation that all or most of Morrowind's lore - it being the game that ADDED more books to the series
>Except almost everything it added is just about Anu and Padomay, plus the 36 lessons (which are also largely about anu and padomay). It took one minor, unusually cliche book from Daggerfall and made the whole setting about it.
Which book?

>>53090371
Though that also says Bal is more conniving than him/her and Boethiah ONLY has the frontal warrior aspect

>>53090374
Even MK has explicitly stated the Nerevarine was not a case of mantling. Whether it was a true incarnation or just a string of lucky events held together by prophecy and happenstance is deliberately left vague but obviously it was actual incarnation.

And yes it's more obtuse, because people have this bizarre misconception about what mantling is, again based on one weird apocryphal quote from Tiber Septim. There's other shit about Talos, apocryphal and otherwise, that suggests Shor handed his mantle down to him directly (and the stone of the Throat of the World is supposedly the cave where this occurred, presumably a metaphysical place like the mantellan crux if it isn't actually the crux itself). It doesn't help that the first time it is explicitly "explained" rather than alluded to it's Vivec calling mantling "the sage who is not an anvil" in the usual cryptic fashion of the 36 lessons.

>>53090490
>spoiler
well now you opened those gates

>>53090395
>Which book?
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Light_and_the_Dark
First instance of the creation myth about Anu and Padomay that completely consumed the lore starting in Morrowind. It's got all the incredible depth and philosophical impact of the Star Wars prequels.

>>53090386
But *I* have a hateboner for the undead. They annoy the shit out of me with their spookiness and unjustified self importance.

Bunch of cunts walking around tombs not letting me take their shit.

Old bone dust sprinkling everywhere.

Petrified poop slipping out of their old mummified rectums.

Dripping ectoplasm over everything

Summoning MORE dead assholes to do MORE creepy gross dead people shit all over the stuff I want.

Your're dead!

It's MY shit now dangnabbit leave me alone!

>>53090504
The thing is, both Azura and Vivec recognise you as the true Incarnate. While the argument that it is not that being the true Incarnate would allow you to pass the tests but that passing the tests makes you eligible to claim you are the true Incarnate and nobody really has grounds to say otherwise, nearly omnipotent gods picking you out of the crowd of false Incarnates is pretty significant.

But yeah that's just my two cents on the matter. Since Azura has at least some degree of knowledge about the future and fate, even if the Prisoners defy that to an extent, you could also just argue that she knew you would succeed where others failed if she provided her guidance, while Vivec is obviously a demigod but also not particularly trustworthy.

>>53090386
Who cares if she's benevolent, she's the best

as an official TES undead circlejerker Meridia is nonetheless my favourite Prince, she's just the coolest

also I think the "benevolent" thing comes from more than her hatred of undead.

Her assistance of the Ayleids was to stem the tide of a genocide that would lead to millenia of social imbalance and chaos in Tamriel, upon a people who turned to her for guidance and aid. Which isn't to say Kyne was wrong in assisting Alessia, or that the Magna Ge were wrong to make Pelin-El as powerful as they did, necessitating Meridia (a powerful Ge in her own right) making a comparable war machine of nearly equal might (which itself is pretty impressive, given that she was only one Child while Pelin-El was presumably made by a large group).

This all makes more sense when you get back to the central reason she is known as benevolent, which is that while she reigns over a plane of Oblivion inhabited by Daedra, her own nature is not Daedric but Anuic. Anu is seen as synonymous with "good" in Mundus, even though what mortals actually consider "good" on an individual or philosophical level includes many definitely padomaic things and also discludes many anuic things- "Progress" is the positive face of change and "stagnation" is the negative face of stasis, and people tend to view anything where THEY get the short end of the stick as being evil, even if it's actually fair. Meridia protects stasis and the natural balanced order of things, which is why she opposes the undead (as opposed to some simple distaste for a creature made of gross rotten flesh or something else dumb).

>>53090386
>>53090759
She was cast out of Aetherius for "consorting with illicit spectra"- People often misinterpret this as meaning somehow speaking to the Daedra, when it is made clear that the only time Ge and Daedra could even inhabit the same space normally is during a Dragon Break, when they can both walk Nirn and all the rules go out the window anyway. It means she was associating with Ge outside of her caste. She was a princess of the magenta group, and Ge identify themselves by light colour (spectra). Such social upheaval is worthy of exile in a society founded on the principle that stasis is an absolute good- And is also why she alone of the Ge seems moderately sane to mortals, while the others are beyond austere (as seen in C0DA, where they are the Digitals, for example).

Her sphere is light and energy, which overlaps slightly with Auriel because Auriel was seen as an avatar of Anu as well- As the only Magna Ge that speaks to mortals, Meridia is like a little ball of Aetherius descended to Oblivion. Azura represents the beauty of what is, but Meridia is her counterpart in that she represents the beauty of Aetherius.

Of course, Meridia can (like a lot of the gods) be compared to a lot of others as counterparts. The most obvious is her mirror-twin, Molag Bal. MK pointed out the relationship to Kyne in a long spiel about the emotions they represent, in reference to their indirect interaction through the story of KotN.

>>53090774
What the fuck are you talking about? Where the hell are these Magna-Ge details anyway?

And who says Oblivion and Aetherius can't communicate?

>>53090838
>Where the hell are these Magna-Ge details anyway?
most comes from here
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/magne-ge-pantheon
It also details how the Magna Ge are a people, rather than a huge collective of gods, who consider exceptional individuals to be gods of their own culture- Meridia was once one of these, a god even among her fellow et'Ada. Though that isn't exactly incredible, many minor Daedra did not become Princes and many minor Aedra became the Earth Bones, so every group of et'Ada picked out exceptional individuals to treat as their own gods. Just a fun tidbit you probably don't normally think about with regards to the setting's gods.

>And who says Oblivion and Aetherius can't communicate?
Both that and this
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/vehks-teaching
The same force that Akatosh uses to project a barrier to keep the Daedra from walking Nirn also keeps the Magna-Ge out, and the Blackblock, the membrane in which the stars are holes, is also normally impassable. Even the handful of mortals who have supposedly made it to Aetherius had to go through Magnus iirc.

And a little additional reading on the Meridia/Kyne thing
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/michael-kirkbride-irc-qa-sessions

OpenTES Arena:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btXppkxGrLo

File: daedric helmets.jpg (875KB, 1108x845px) Image search: [Google]

875KB, 1108x845px

>>53086612
>Everything you listed already is false, and I'm having trouble coming up with anything to play double's advocate, so...
Play Daggerfall some time. Honestly. It's a fucking great game and one of my favorites of all time. Who knows, maybe you'll like it!
>double's advocate

Don't worry, I know we already cleared up the misunderstandings after that post. If nothing else at least we share a love for Daggerfall in common.

Now then...
>What did Morrowind actually ADD compared to Daggerfall, rather than taking away?
This is extremely TL;DR so I'll borrow that technique of pastebinning my response:
https://pastebin.com/ppjpeg3z
This is all I've remembered at the moment from personal experience and I know there's more I missed. There's simply a ton of shit you can do in Morrowind that you can't in Daggerfall. There's also a lot you can do in Daggerfall that you can't in any other TES game, which highlights just how drastically the gameplay changed between these games.

And to be clear, I don't hate Oblivion: it has the best NPCs by far. I'm no fanboy except maybe a general TES one. I enjoyed all the games and lore they all have features totally unique to them and reasons anyone might prefer them to the others.

>>53089625
>>53089666
>>53089716
>>53089846
>>53089930
It does, in fact, work in Oblivion on Acrobatics and Athletics. They are the only skills in the game that have any effect past 100, which is fine because they are the most fun skills to fortify in any TES. Simply make multiple Fortify Acrobatics spells. Each individual spell counts as a separate effect, so however many you can cast simultaneously determines your maximum acrobatics value. No exploits required. Put eight of them on your quickslots, cast them in sequence, and fly away. It's not as easy as in Morrowind with all the armor/clothing slots to enchant for it, but it's definitely still possible in Oblivion.

Adding a random lore pic since this is such an off-topic post.

>>53090335
They ARE there, just not what you think.

File: maxresdefault[3].jpg (110KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

110KB, 1280x720px

>>53076407
Lizard men.

File: monster_lizardman_vs.jpg (18KB, 380x242px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 380x242px

>>53092147
We already have a shitton of scalies, anon.
I would like if Argonians pulled a reverse-Orc and became mindless monsters.

>>53092147
>>53092171
I wanna see the other Argonian types, like the Naga.

>>53092733
Naga are just poor man's Tsaesci.

>>53091324
Open question: should Arena lore be completely dismissed?

>>53092813
No. I don't see why.

>>53079253
I love the horror aspect of Wood elves when you go beyond canibalism.

Wish the games had more of it.

File: why sotha sil broke his ties with the dwemer.png (278KB, 719x1280px) Image search: [Google]

278KB, 719x1280px

>>53092813
No, unless later games directly contradict it.

File: Almalethiah.png (863KB, 835x1200px) Image search: [Google]

863KB, 835x1200px

>>53084727

Shoudn't Boethia at this rate look like Alma?

since she prabably replaced Him after Morrowind and then taking full control of it in Skyrim due to mantking shennanigans, and ofc her being his anticipation and of course His "avatar" of sorts?

>>53090838
It's a non-canon piece of kirkbride shit.

File: Best_Wizard.jpg (108KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 400x400px

>>53093010
Good thing this is a lore thread and not a canon thread.

>>53093017
There's no difference. There is canon/lore, and there is noncanon/fanfiction.

>>53093046
lol

>>53092953
Almalexia didn't mantle boethia. The anticipations are just a church doctrine to explain why it's okay for the Dunmer to give up their daedra worship in favor of the worship of the tribunal. It's not an actual metaphysical fact.

File: ef164259bc8f7b2d5f8fbd764c303ad6.jpg (160KB, 696x1149px) Image search: [Google]

160KB, 696x1149px

>>53093017
newfags should learn that TES lore runs on philosophy on crack, there is canon and not canon at the same time, and both can contradict with each other.

>>53093078
yeah but this has been discussed a lot.

as him, she was the master of the complete deceit, sex and plots, and the 3rd biggest liar that ever walked in tamriel, and the one who complete murders to keep "her people" safe, she represented him in everything, even the plot who took in place before her demise at the hands of the Nerevar incarnate, she never went mad, she simple went back to the old Tenants over the years and more and more she almost became Him.

and we know that boethiah since daggerfall can change his appearance on his own, but it isn't pretty much strange that Skyrim one, even the cut quest is simply a throwback to what Alma did when she killed a Dunmeri noble to keep "order", thus the fact that even with the reclamations, the dunmeri still sees her as a god? as the Reclamation of Boethiah?

>"The biggest lie that the devil set loose upon this world, is that he never existed"

in this case, the biggest lie is that she could set upon the world is that "she died"

She may had "died" and Boethiah may had finally claimed and ate her soul as he wanted, But as Boethiah did to the Dunmer after He ate trinimac and lied to them as he disguised as him, shouldn't she be the one who also played the fool's card and managed to "disguise as Boethiah" to keep her rule over the Dunmer even after her Physical death? would she be the one who "Deceived the Deceiver", and its now dressing his carcass while playing as the new Daedra?

Alma being the new Boethia would make sense in a lots of things post Oblivion, Mainly now that the Tribunal is dead and the Dunmer now reveres Boethiah once again, she would continue keeping her rule over the Dunmer, also she would play as Boethiah for the time being

with the world believing that she died, as she would continue ruling with her new identity.

>>53092953
>>53093078
>>53093283

there it was a teslore, and forum talk about it not so long time ago.

>"I am the Face-Snaked Queen of the Three in One. In you is an image and a seven-syllable spell, AYEM AE SEHTI AE VEHK, which you will repeat to it until mystery comes."

After the Red year, Boethia suddenly changed his form to something more closer to what Alma was, but keeping "his traits", which served as a way to keep the Dunmer loyal to "him", after the tribunal was banished, and the Reclamations were re-stated again.

She had the gift of Foresight, she may had saw her Demise years before The Events of Morrowind took place, and she may had planned it over the years to keep herself as a god, even after her Physical demise, and the only one who may fit with her ideals and plan was Him, letting herself being "claimed" by him and then take him from the Inside, it would had been something that even Boethiah wouldn't had think of it, until the last minute, where she pretty much weakened him from the inside, and gave it the final blow.

>"The Face Snaked Queen killed the King Cobra with his own venom, and later she used his scales and title as hers, as a prize."

>>53093573
>teslore
Here we fucking go.

>>53093608

TESLORE AND MANY THER PLACES BESIDES THIS SHITHOLE where we live because /tesg/ is now a /v/ waifu shitlole

hold onto the shiddit sperging or a moment instead of going apeshit due to one place

>>53093908
At least post the sources and context you corprus-festering fetcher.

>>53093985
The source is forum RP, about as valid as three neckbeards roleplaying a sexual encounter between Nerevar, Almalexia, and a Horker named Maxeen

File: baladas.png (337KB, 522x574px) Image search: [Google]

337KB, 522x574px

>>53094224
Thought so.

Who is more /fa/, Bretons or Nibenese

File: 1365220557001.jpg (294KB, 1525x1075px) Image search: [Google]

294KB, 1525x1075px

>>53094328
Nibenese hands down.

Speaking of /fa/, what could be Breton analog of Landsknechte? Do they even have merc companies or is Fighters Guild doing all the job?

File: GH5PH7Hu3MLqrKvs7kRpqA.jpg (141KB, 684x454px) Image search: [Google]

141KB, 684x454px

>>53094328
Colovians

why does teslore community hates each other more than Fallout community?

>>53095387
It's safer dealing with commodities.

>>53090335
Not even shoved out, turned into. It's sort of weird that iron and flesh gol- atronachs weren't kept past Daggerfall, except for flesh golems appearing in Shivering Isles. Blame it on wizards gradually becoming close-minded fools I guess, that would fit with one of those still appearing in the place where basically all truly creative minds are doomed to end up. Atronachs were referred to interchangeably as golems at first, and I think as recently as Oblivion though I don't remember for certain.

>>53092813
Pretty much everything in it has either been corroborated or directly contradicted/retconned in later games (much of it as early as Daggerfall), so my answer is "yes, but..." as in "yes, but it doesn't add anything meaningful."

>>53093046
There is canon, apocrypha, fan theories and fanfiction. Canon is absolutely reputable except for the 50-70% of it that gets retconned each game; apocrypha is synonymous with word of god (or extra-scriptural writings by the authors), reputable unless it's obviously made as a gag (though admittedly, the only example I can think of off the top of my head is the Seven Fights of the Aldu-Dagga) or, like canon, retconned in a new game; fan theories are potentially reputable hypotheses based on the former that may be confirmed or denied in successive titles (and bear varying degrees of reputability based on how well corroborated they are by existing lore, with the utmost being "practically canon, just not stated explicitly anywhere"); and fanfiction or headcanon is just shit that the writer doesn't even think is an official part of the setting/true at all but makes up for fun.

Most of the Magna Ge lore is reputable apocrypha.

Or you can go off the deep end with the "c0da philosophy" but that's a really bad slippery slope that makes lore discussion basically meaningless when carried to its logical conclusion.

File: maxeen in repose.png (1MB, 1600x900px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1600x900px

>>53094224
>and a Horker named Maxeen
classic meme anon

>>53094328
Nibenese strike me as being extremely high-fashion. Breton fashion is probably actually nicer though. What was the Wilde quote? "Fashion is a form of ugliness so repulsive it must be changed every month," or something like that? Shame we can't get a contemporary side-by-side on the fashion trends of different regions. I ain't counting ESO.

>>53094364
The fighter's guild pretty much is (was? Are they still around in 4E201?) the Landsknechte. Spread their influence everywhere, generally seen as the most powerful mercenaries you can hire. But in Daggerfall there's also a lot of local knightly orders in High Rock.

>>53095828
What if both warring states hire the FG? How is it settled then?
How was it settled for RL Landsknechte?

>>53095878
Come to think of it I have no idea (about either). In fact I'm not sure if the fighter's guild are actually proper mercenaries, as in, if they take contracts concerning war. They're warriors for hire and even identified in-game as mercs but in the games they mostly just put down bandits, large dangerous monsters and rival mercenary groups.

Then again, the only actual wars between provinces we see in the games are in Daggerfall, where there are local knightly orders and you're working as a covert agent in the affair anyway, and Skyrim, where the fighter's guild is absent and the local equivalent has sworn neutrality (iirc). So who fuckin knows.

>>53095878
Makes me think of that mercenary captain from the First Law books who split his company in two, got hired by both sides of a conflict and then proceeded to play pretend war with his own troops for a few months

>>53095994
Honestly, Fighters Guild doesn't strike me as a type of guild to allow things like fighting their own fellow fighters or changing sides, especially considering its history.
Maybe some other types of mercenaty guilds are present. We got Blackwood in Oblivion, after all.
All in all, I can't imagine High Rock without warring mercenaries.

>>53090212
>daedra prod
I love it. An enchanted cattle prod to punish disobedient demons.

>>53076407
Remove all metaphysics and cosmology.

File: Letrollzor+used+roll+picture+letrollzor+rolled+image+what+makes+me+blush+_9ec902dda5f2436e7aec03926ff70786.jpg (14KB, 325x277px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 325x277px

alright boys, i have a challenge for you:

>you are a writer for bethesda, and todd howard comes up to you and slaps your girlfriends ass - no wait, i mean he says to you:

>hey /tgesg/ we were making tes vi and setting it in hammerfell tem years after skyrim and adding sword singing as a big mechanic
>problem is in the lore anyone who could feasibly practice it or teach it has been dead for centuries even during the mmo, and the temples they used to use are all dead
>how the fuck are we going to have it pop up again?

>>53097358
Shamelessly rip-off Redguard with a talking sword except instead of A'tor, it mysteriously contains the soul of some long dead Ansei master that teaches you their katana secrets

>>53092880
I just watched that intro sequence and realized how little in common did Arena have with the following titles.

>>53097358
No matter what you tell him, due to budget cuts and time restraints there will be a group of masters on a small island offshore, conveniently not mentioned in any previous lore, who teach you their secrets after you are revealed as the Chosen One 15 minutes into the game. Sword singing becomes a power like shouts with a cooldown time, and once per day you have a power to do quadruple damage for 60 seconds.

Screencap this

>>53097621
No, Bethesda will hire Platinum and they will make Elder Scrolls Rising: Hammervengeance

>>53092171
The hist can create a sap that induces similar effect, that's how they defeated dagon.
I want the whole 'non-Saxhleel argonian' concept to be expanded upon.

File: 1459728698777.png (220KB, 540x805px) Image search: [Google]

220KB, 540x805px

>>53097358
>problem is in the lore anyone who could feasibly practice it or teach it has been dead for centuries even during the mmo, and the temples they used to use are all dead
What the fuck ever. So were dragons and the Thu'um in Skyrim and that didn't stop you guys then.

Don't forget to make it completely lame too even though sword signers in the lore had the power of fucking chaos dunk and sunk Yokuda with it.

I wish there was a sort of "karma" system for ES, where if you murder people or steal you gain favorability points with daedra or certain factions, while good deeds can earn you more points with the divines and lawful factions, and there are radiant "forgiveness" quests where you can do a good deed for a temple priest to come back into the light. Just so you can't murder and steal without consequence.

Fuck it, I just want faction relations again

>>53097767
Could be interesting

>>53097358
shehai are rumoured to still exist and practice in the depths of the alik'r, research your own lore better retard

>>53097956
*ansei

>>53097767
>daedric factions that increase as you do things related to that prince
It's a really fun cool idea until you realise that every character who wasn't a vampire would be at $100% reputation with Meridia after five minutes because Bethesda can't populate their dungeons with anything more creative than undead.

>>53097996
Lots of people play necromancers too

>>53098018
I don't think you'd be able to keep up with how many undead you killed, unless every act of necromancy was just a HUGE hit to reputation with her.

>>53075715
Oblivionfag here. Back after years of spiritual retirement.

How do I merge ESPS and what can go wrong if I do? I want to go absolutely crazy with modding. Got sent here from /tesg/

>>53098153
Is /tesg/ so far up their own asses that they don't even offer modding advice anymore? Pretty sure you got trolled regardless, because the correct answer is just as dismissive- "just google it"

here, i did it for you
http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/38655/?

>>53098189
Skyrim took over long ago and Oblivion modding is slowly dying. Thanks.

>>53097956

>depths of alikr

how can a desert be deep

File: 1241241231.jpg (22KB, 680x680px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 680x680px

>>53098153
>I want to go absolutely crazy with modding
Wouldn't recommend it. At least not with Oblivion.

You'll just waste a day downloading a bunch of shit. Waste two more reinstalling the game multiple times and struggling to try to make everything work or even just start up without immediately CTDing. Then play for maybe an hour or two before getting bored and uninstalling everything out of shame.

File: hardcore russian morrowind roleplay.jpg (552KB, 1280x849px) Image search: [Google]

552KB, 1280x849px

>>53097358
The hoon ding directly teaches you the basics, but most of the time you learn it by tracking down memory stones (that shit from Cyrus' meeting with Vivec or whatever) that teach you it while you sleep.

File: expanding hat.jpg (180KB, 857x1202px) Image search: [Google]

180KB, 857x1202px

>>53094678

File: 45801-3-1420015965.jpg (326KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

326KB, 1920x1080px

>>53098351
Dunno, I got quite the hang of it. I made a pretty good survival game with decent combat and great monster hunting and stealth. But I added a buch of Aesthetic mods and there's too much stuff now. +255 mods makes the game go boom no matter what.

File: 1440300902767.jpg (3MB, 2920x3240px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2920x3240px

>>53097767
Daggerfall was supposed to have this, but like a lot of other features it never got anywhere.
Still, there's a basic reputation system in the game, it's just kind of obscure.

>>53098153
>Got sent here from /tesg/

>>53098285
Lot of sand.

>>53098351
If you're careful about what you install you skip the second and third day and the part after that lasts like a month. A lot longer if you are a time traveler from when Oblivion was shiny and new.

File: vivec eyebrows.gif (17KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 800x600px

>>53098435
>primary skills
>nymph

File: nibenese silkweaver.jpg (271KB, 900x658px) Image search: [Google]

271KB, 900x658px

>>53094328
nibenese moth priests are my aesthetic

>>53098417
Using craftybits, by the way? Guessing so since you mentioned survival and hunting. Last time I installed it that borked somehow, half the features didn't work correctly. I had it working in a past install though.

>>53098546
Not really using it since scavenging and alchemy is fun enough.

>>53098588
Ah, I assumed you'd be using the camping and skinning/boning mechanics. I like the barding along with an economy mod to make it worth doing.

>>53098643
I did use that mod once and everything crashed horribly. Which is a shame because I would have loved it. Skyrim has this too, I think.

>>53095715
I agree with most of your classification, except it doesn't define who author is. Kirkbride was an author for a very brief time, and what he wrote while working for bethesda is reputable. Anything written by Kirkbride during a term of unemployment is not canon, or apocrypha. It is the stoned ramblings of an increasingly irrelevant asshole.

>>53098415
Spoken like a patrician

>>53098693
>Kirkbride was an author for a very brief time, and what he wrote while working for bethesda is reputable. Anything written by Kirkbride during a term of unemployment is not canon, or apocrypha. It is the stoned ramblings of an increasingly irrelevant asshole.
I don't really like the guy (I've talked to him outside the context of TES and he's pretty much a self-righteous asshat like you might expect, somewhat personable but as a highly opinionated person I don't get along with other highly opinionated people like him), and I treat all of his writings with a large degree of skepticism (curiously, I seem to be one of the few in /tgesg/ that didn't gobble up the seven fights!), but this is misinfo at best and probably contains a degree of deliberate disinfo.

Kirkbride directed Redguard and wrote most of the content for it and was one of the three main writers who worked on the Pocket Guide to the Empire for it (in case you live under a fucking rock, the PGE is the design document for Redguard and Morrowind that underwent some revision, which MK also contributed to, for Oblivion), then was a major writer and artist for Morrowind, and wrote the most important new book in Oblivion as well as the plot for the DLC with deeper lore implications (KotN, SI was really fun but from a lore standpoint was lacking in anything new), and more of his at the time non-canon writings were included in Skyrim, while the Dragonborn DLC additionally includes direct references to topics only he had ever talked about directly, and only out of context in most cases. He is absolutely still an active contributor to the most recent official material, even omitting ESO which started fellating him hardcore after the shitstorm about its initial fast-and-loose treatment of the lore. He was also not a writer for a "brief time" at all, let alone a "very" brief time. He actively contributed to the series in a large way across four games, three of which are mainline titles.

>>53098693
>>53098870
Also, here's a quote from Kurt Kuhlmann, arguably the most important or second most important writer for the series, who was stated by one of the new writers on Skyrim to be the closest the office had to an "Elder Scrolls Bible" and who one would turn to if they had a question about the lore in-office, from 2011:
>We all try not to take it to heart that only MK can save Skyrim from the trash heap - but I can say that even without directly writing any books, I'd say there's more of his influence on Skyrim than Oblivion. Probably a lot more - if you look at the chapter from the PGE on Skyrim, (pretty sure that was one of his - I can't remember any more who wrote which one, it's Bilbo and Strider all over again), and that chapter is the foundation for the whole setting. And if you look really hard, you might even find a painted cow. (No comment on flying whales.)

>>53098924
The quote you're talking about is referencing a work Kirkbride did while employed. Reread my post. I have nothing against this. But nothing kirkbride does while not employed is canon.

>>53099068
Except work he did while "unemployed" made it into Skyrim verbatim. He's also still personal friends with most of the writing staff.

You're fighting an uphill battle here mainly because you're wrong.

Kirkbride works to be disregarded:
>r/teslore posts, since most of what he did there was fuck with them because they were gullible and funny
>the seven fights of the aldu-dagga, because it was written as a joke

Pretty much anything else qualifies as apocrypha. Apocrypha frequently written in really pretentious bullshit lingo, but still apocrypha and still with discernible meaning.

>>53099206
I don't think you understand what I mean when I say unemployed. The PGE was done while employed. Anything he wrote while employed that makes it into a later game? Done while employed. Those cringe worthy forum roleplays where he talks about his spear size or whatever, on the old bethesda forums? He was usually employed while doing that IIRC. All canon. His work on KotN? Contractually, he was employed.

Anything outside of that specific relationship is not canon, and for the most part hasn't made it into the games. This is stuff like c0da (thankfully), his teslore smug posts, etc, etc.

>>53093017
People SHOULD point out whether their sources are in game our out of it like MK's "Wouldn't this be cool" things.

I don't know what drives people to have this discussion time and time again. It's been going on weekly for years, and it never gets anywhere.

>>53093283
I doubt she had the power to pull that off on scraps of the heart.

>>53098285
Distance from the border.

>>53099295
The same reason that kirkbride thought he could write a noncanon comic to convince people who thought his latest stuff wasn't canon that it was canon. Stupidity and pretentiousness.

>>53098153

Forget TESG
>https://pastebin.com/75fzM5te

>>53099257
Yet you say he was "an author for a very brief time." Or are you trying to tell me that, for instance, From the Many Headed Talos was something written for Skyrim in Kirkbride's style, that through his contacts Kirkbride got his hands on and posted as his own work before Skyrim's release, that was never taken down and he never suffered any repercussions for and that still appeared as a quote, unedited, in the release version of Skyrim? Because even if Kuhlmann was in that quote (nevermind that he worked actively on Oblivion and Kuhlmann still says he had more of an influence on Skyrim than he did Oblivion), I wasn't. I was referring to his slew of works during Skyrim's development that were variously quoted or referenced in the game despite having no credible relationship to pre-existing lore that could otherwise explain said references (this also includes KINMUNE, incidentally, which I'm sure really chafes your dick).

You're either contradicting yourself or arguing for complete DOTA, with no non-canon content or authorial commentary accepted whatsoever, because this author produced some things you don't personally like. Of course, it's clearly the former- You said you agree with my classifications "except it doesn't define who the author is." Your standards for authorial credibility, while you claim they are tied only to employment (which is already a stupid qualifier, as I'm sure you'd accept something Ted Peterson said to clear something up about Morrowind's lore for instance), are actually "are they someone I, Anonymous Shitposter, personally like?"

Thing is, while he hasn't always been on the credits and hasn't always been "employed" as in going into the Bethesda offices on a daily grind, Kirkbride has written new, original, since-the-last-game-came-out content that has become canon for every mainline title since Morrowind. If your standards for employment are "making it into the game," he has never been "unemployed."

>>53099295
I'm sure there are plenty of people who really believe information about a fantasy world can only come from licensed products, but honestly the way this guy has been talking I'm pretty sure he's just shitposting.

File: LORKHAN gets no love.png (451KB, 1399x2714px) Image search: [Google]

451KB, 1399x2714px

What does everyone here think of the Hist 'network-amaranth or whatever it is' theory? Where the Hist uses argonians to gather memories to build a simulation of a world inside their mind as opposed to losing individuality/sentience though becoming a genuine amaranth.
It's purely apocrypha, but I think it is really interesting and raises a lot of questions to alternative to Lorkhan's plan.
C0DA even says no one actually understands that Hist, so clearly Kirkbride doesn't want to comment on it.

File: 1493535803583.png (226KB, 394x296px) Image search: [Google]

226KB, 394x296px

>>53093283
>there is canon and not canon at the same time, and both can contradict with each other

But seriously, I love that TES is one of the only in-game universes that has texts that contradict one another, even if it's rare.

It makes it so much more interesting and believable to think that multiple versions of 'lore' and storytelling exist in a world.

>>53099396
Trying to explain the meaning of his previous works, and some of the suggestions he's made that got taken in by the company is fine.

But weird ass shit like outlining a culture for a place of borderless nothingness is stupid.

>>53099257
>>53099396
It also bears pointing out that your mentality is, in fact, the c0da philosophy MK himself suggested should be the standard instead of worrying about "canon" to end the canon wars at the time, ie "if you're a buttblistered asperger you can disregard any part of the lore you like and make up your own, it's all open source and up for interpretation."

Of course, C0DA itself, which was so removed from any events in the story (takes place in an indeterminately distant future in one of many branching timelines on masser instead of nirn) that it can only serve to shed light on some occult points (such as the actual relationship between akatosh and lorkhan and Hjalti's race) with no further implications for the story of the games. Or are you also an assblasted stormfag who still thinks Talos was a Nord? Is that what this is all about?

>>53099474
>outlining a culture for a place of borderless nothingness is stupid
t knower, right

Oblivion is more of a "borderless nothingness" than Aetherius is, but I haven't seen you complain about the Daedra.

File: sotha party.png (62KB, 676x673px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 676x673px

How the hell does memory work in TES?

Sotha Sil has something to do with creating a backup system for memory after landfall or something but I still don't have any idea what any of it means.

>>53099474
>But weird ass shit like outlining a culture for a place of borderless nothingness is stupid.
Are you referring to the Magna Ge Pantheon? You do realise that the Magna Ge, a race of et'Ada that live in Aetherius just outside of the sky, are canon, right? That they're the ones that made Pelinal Whitestrake and Mehrunes Dagon? Right?

File: almama.jpg (69KB, 600x811px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 600x811px

>>53099530
Hey Sotha, thanks for coming to hang out!

>>53099297

everyone doubted that a single human could mantle and become sheogorath after Jyggalag was freed, and look what happened

If she had the Foresight, as she had before, when she saw the outcome of the Oblivion Crisis years before the game happened, she probably spent her time planning on that, which explains why she was weaker in Tribunal, she knew that she was going to die, and fighting the nerevarine with her full power would be useless compared to what boethiah would to to her, Outsmarting the Daedric King Cobra would be her 1st priority.

>>53099522
My philosophy is literally the definition of canon. There are parts I hate that I accept as canon (kirkbride's autistic spear posting on bethsoft forums for instance).

File: trust no lore.jpg (869KB, 1600x1067px) Image search: [Google]

869KB, 1600x1067px

>>53099429
>>53099522
Isn't the purpose of all the contradicing texts and C0DA itself meant to be about how TES lore is an examination of the idea of fiction in the context of a highly moddable videogame (while being completely explainable in in.-universe terms)?
However reducing it all down to that is rather shallow, I understand.

>>53099530
>where's vivec
kek

It's an entity called Memory, the imperfect personification of Nirn herself, not actual memory. Also not to be confused with Mnemoli, which is Greek for "memory," and is one of the Magna Ge and always the first to make landfall when there's a Dragon Break, for love of Nirn. However, because Akatosh is decrepit, time is nonlinear in C0DA, and the Digitals, who are the Magna Ge, keep record of events to make sure they aren't forgotten, which is sort of like literal memory.

>>53099608
Anything out of context, ie not strictly stated in the games, is by definition not canon. You cannot have it both ways. Sorry, chump.

>>53099766
You're not even remotely making sense anymore.

>>53099766
>time is nonlinear
I'm always confused what this is even supposed to mean in the context of TES, people keep throwing it around like it's self-explanatory but "nonlinear time" doesn't exist in reality, and best I can think of it time is literally defined by it's linearity

>>53099779
Which part don't you get, anon? The first part is pretty straightforward I think, it's the constant repetition of the letters "memory" that are confusing. The second part is even more straightforward and if you don't understand it you should probably seek out a psychiatrist. The literal definition of canon (where it is meaningfully distinguished from a term for any criterion for narrative validity, which can literally be as lax as "any of my fanfiction is canon") is "the actual contents of a narrative work itself."

A strict adherence to canon is referred to as DOTA, which stands for Death Of The Author. This is the idea in narrative and especially literary analysis that anything the author says about his own work and anything the author might have intended when writing his work should be disregarded, as if the author has died upon publication of his work and the individual claiming to be the author is just another analyst. Very few people take this "philosophy" seriously, of course- It is mostly useful as an exercise to encourage authors to create more internally complete works that can stand on their own and be WHOLE with no external supplementation.

As soon as you accept "word of god" (ie out-of-context, as in, not-a-part-of-the-damned-work, quotes), you are no longer only regarding canon, and no longer working under the rule of DOTA.

I am sorry that after even one of these terms baffled you I've gone and dumped a few more on you, but I do so in the hopes that at least one will latch onto one of the mental hooks in your apparently limited psyche.

With all this anti-mk shit, is there anything he says that actually contradicts the "real" lore? An actual reason to why he's non-canon other than I didn't spend money on it?

>>53099847
This isn't strictly related, but first think about time travel and its implications. You can have paradoxes where time loops and branching timelines where you end up with different events happening in "parallel" in increasingly divergent universes. Then, you could further have some means of crossing the divide between those branches.

When Akatosh, the literal embodiment of time in the Arena, is injured, time (the Dragon) is said to break. Events happen out of order. Cause happens after effect. People sire their own grandfathers, and armies formed hundreds of years apart fight over conflicts that were resolved before all of the soldiers on one side were even conceived. The things people normally use to chronicle time also cease to occur- Seasons and the apparent movement of stars and planets. The Khajiit reveal that Masser and Secunda continue to move, however, which is how they tell time during a Dragon Break (Masser and Secunda, the two moons, represent space, not time, though as in real life the two are synonymous to a degree), and other mortals were able to tell the passage of years during the most infamous Dragon Break, the 1008 year long one in the first era, based on the "falling of eight stars," the Magna Ge using their deific nature to keep events in a vague sort of order.

Basically, everyone passively travels through time constantly because Akatosh got hurt. Time itself still flows, it's just that instead of going in a straight line it forms eddies and doubles back on itself a lot. The really complicated part is that these events can be localised to one part of Tamriel, like the Warp In the West (which only covered the Illiac Bay area) and the Red Moment (which only covered Vvardenfell).

>>53100089
The Seven Fights has ancient nords talking like 90s mallrats. It also has opium-spewing skywhales, but the usual defence for this (unreliable narrator, nords like to embellish) is acceptable imo. It also provides an alternative origin story for Alduin and Mehrunes Dagon, but again, this can be an unreliable narrator. So at best it's something that isn't factual but is a silly story told by a bard in-context, except it also has a lot of language a third- or fourth-era bard would not use and ancient nords have not been shown or said to use at any other point, so it's basically just a joke.

I've never cared to read all of his r/teslore posts but a while back people were really mad about one where he said the first west you went on Nirn the further into the past you went, the further east the further into the future you went and that yokuda actually existed in the past while akavir actually existed in the future, then basically said "think about it." This runs counter to the fact, of course, that all of the continents have histories spanning the existence of Nirn. From his few other posts I've seen on r/teslore, though, he mostly posted the same way I do when I'm trolling and egging people on, so I strongly suspect he was just fucking with the fuckmunches that actually posted in that cesspool.

>>53100260
*further west
sorry, intoxicated

>>53077364
This goes well with the tune of the Irish drinking song from Whose Line is it Anyways.

>>53100002
The part where you think I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too. I'm using the strict definition of canon, and applying it in situations that I dislike as well as situations that I like. You're either stupid or being willfully ignorant.

>>53100089
I can't think of anything that's directly contradictory, but there's a shit ton of stuff that's worse than naruto fanfiction.

>THE INFO-FOAM IS READING ALMALEXIA'S MANIPULATION AND FORMING COUNTER-RESPONSE SEX-AGGRESSION BREAKBEAT HORNET-SHAPED HOMING MISSILES OUT OF COUNTLESS GANGSTA RAP MUSIC VIDEOS!'

>>53100517
>I'm using the strict definition of canon
You aren't. Don't know how much clearer I can make it. When you're bitching about posts that MK made, outside the context of the games, that is NOT the strict definition of canon. When you're defining "canon" as "written by someone while they were employed by Bethesda" and then disregarding what MK has written at any point, you are not even working under YOUR OWN definition of canon. When you are defining "employed by Bethesda" as "writing new content for the current game" and discluding Kirkbride, you aren't even following your own definition of "employed." You are a fucking moron.

>>53100517
>but there's a shit ton of stuff that's worse than naruto fanfiction.
Good thing the thing you quoted is literally supposed to be like in-context Naruto that airs hundreds and potentially thousands of years after the events of Skyrim.

>>53100601
What kirkbride work have I disregarded while he's been employed with bethesda? You're arguing against your own defensive perception of me. "Oh bollocks, he dislikes kirkbride, let's make him a strawman". Fuck you.

>>53100616
Sadly, the rest of the "comic" doesn't get much better. Also, that's cringey as fuck even in the context of a fictional saturday morning cartoon. Seth Macfarlane has a better sense of humor. What Kirkbride did with c0da (unintentionally, I assure you), and that section in particular, was nothing less than the discovery of anti-comedy.

Why even bother arguing when it's clear that no one involved is going to change their opinion?
There's no victory here.

Fuck you, I liked Naruto.

File: wargames-moranbondaroff-detroit-340x239.jpg (32KB, 340x239px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 340x239px

>>53100666

>>53100671
Naruto was fine at first

>>53100666
It's still important to discuss topics with those of the opposing side. Sure they might not change their minds right now, but they might later. Maybe they need time to think about it, digest it. Maybe they won't change, but now they know how to handle future discussions about it. The discussion might not even help either side, it might only be beneficial to those reading it but not participating.
I'd trust a doubtful plebeian more than a religious zealot.

File: lore DC.jpg (198KB, 1682x334px) Image search: [Google]

198KB, 1682x334px

>>53099719
It's like im really in /tesog/

>>53100663
>What kirkbride work have I disregarded while he's been employed with bethesda?
Any of it whatsoever, by your definition of employment. Literally anything he has written since Daggerfall has been during his "employment." Like I said before, all or nothing. Either extra-canonical works are not part of the setting or they are, you don't get to keep redefining words in a futile attempt to finagle it so that the exact Kirkbride works that rub you the wrong way don't fall under your already incorrect definition of "canon." Moron.

>Sadly, the rest of the "comic" doesn't get much better.
It does.

>Seth Macfarlane has a better sense of humor.
He doesn't.

>was nothing less than the discovery of anti-comedy.
I didn't know he was a time traveler. That's already been a thing (and a source of real humour) for hundreds of years at least, likely much longer. It's the crux of most classic jokes, in fact.

>>53100778
>not even an edit of the image of Kurt and Michael pointing guns at each other and the camera

>>53100788
>Any of it whatsoever, by your definition of employment. Literally anything he has written since Daggerfall has been during his "employment." Like I said before, all or nothing. Either extra-canonical works are not part of the setting or they are, you don't get to keep redefining words in a futile attempt to finagle it so that the exact Kirkbride works that rub you the wrong way don't fall under your already incorrect definition of "canon." Moron.

You clearly don't know what "while" means.

You seem to have mentally replaced the term "while" with "since". Which is retarded. You're retarded. Go on and ctrl+f "while", and then look up the definition before coming back to this post.

Here's an example: Somehow, you get a job at bethesda, and you write ponyfucking into the next TES game. That's canon. Later, bethesda fires you, because ponyfucking didn't pan out too well. So after being fired, you move onto writing about your OC's sexual encounters with earthworms. This is not done while employed, and would not be canon. Later, bethesda hires you for some contractual work, because the incompetence there has reached critical mass, outsourcing some task to you. The work you did on that task would be canon, because it was done while employed. Got it? Good. Retard.

>>53099719
The contradicting texts are great, and mostly designed to simulate how knowledge bases work in reality. The in universe authors of those texts are not omniscient, and they bring flawed knowledge to them. C0DA's purpose was to get people to stop arguing about kirkbride's bullshit being canon or not. It didn't work.

>>53100906
>You clearly don't know what "while" means.
>You seem to have mentally replaced the term "while" with "since"
Please point out the game SINCE daggerfall that Kirkbride did not actively write NEW CONTENT that was then INCLUDED IN THE GAME for. Hardmode: No mobile games!!

>>53100906
>C0DA's purpose was to get people to stop arguing about kirkbride's bullshit being canon or not. It didn't work.
>retard doesn't know that the saturday morning cartoon sequence in C0DA is supposed to be a saturday morning cartoon
>retard doesn't know the difference between C0DA and c0da
>retard doesn't know about the many headed talos
>retard doesn't know about the mythic dawn commentaries or the song of pelinal
>retard doesn't know shit
whoda guessed

>>53100994
It doesn't matter if his past work was used as an inspiration for the game, or if work done while EMPLOYED was used for the game, if the work we're discussing was done while UNEMPLOYED. For example: Kirkbride wrote some of the PGE. This was used as a basis for the setting in skyrim. This does not mean that C0DA, written while skyrim was the latest TES game is canon. C0DA was written while kirkbride was not working for bethesda.

This is the easiest test in the world to figure out.

>>53101020
Ah, the classic, "you can't see the emperor's clothes, therefore you're dumb" response. Fuck you. c0da was basic as shit to understand, and it's still stupid as fuck.

>>53101119
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/many-headed-talos
JUST
STOP
POSTING
YOU
DENSE
MOTHER
FUCKER

>>53101181
Your point?

>>53101214
>written in 2010
>by michael kirkbride
>included in skyrim
just shut up already you mongoloid

>>53101255
And this suddenly makes all of kirkbride's out of game writings canon? You're the mongoloid if you think that.

File: daughters_of_coldharbour_by_velothii-d6x2zpd.jpg (2MB, 1569x1620px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1569x1620px

Tell me about Vampires. What's up with them?

Do other races ever make use of tribal orcs in their armies?

Like in Re:Monster where the elves come into the goblin's hideout to force them to fight the humans.

>>53101289
Funny how a few posts ago his out of game writings were canon as long as it was while he was "employed," defined as writing new content for the most recent game, and now they aren't because you have to defend your stance no matter how many goalposts must be shifted!

>>53101316
Molag Bal's sphere is domination. Arkay believed death to be an indomitable force, and was confident in his "natural order" that all things should die. Seeking to conquer his domain, Molag Bal raped a human girl, Lamae Beolfag, filling her with Daedric seed, granting her both immortality and a horrible curse, as well as the ability to spread both. That's pretty much all it is, the rest is driven by normal human politics and the desire to dominate, rule and subjugate (and it surely only pleases Molag Bal that he was the cause for these actions that honour his sphere).
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Opusculus_Lamae_Bal_ta_Mezzamortie

>>53101425
His writings made while unemployed that are later purchased or taken by Bethesda are canon.

>>53101316


its what happens when molag bal takes one viagra from slaanesh, and he decides to fuck anything that it has a warm hole

>>53101425
stop feeding him

>>53101425
My stance hasn't shifted, and never has. if he wrote it while employed, it's canon. If he didn't, it isn't. This text made it into the game, so the test isn't necessary. The fact that it made it into the game, doesn't make other out of employment, out of game texts canon. For instance, this wouldn't make c0da canon, but if later a bethesda employed writer adopted c0da (by adding it to the games, like with the many headed talos), c0da would become canon. It boggles my mind that you could be this stupid.

>>53101316
Vampirism is a demon STD

>>53101316
Rape victims with stockholm syndrom.

>>53101457
So practically all of them, except for the handful that have come out since the last Elder Scrolls game because there has yet to be a game to confirm them. Glad we settled that.

>>53101316
Basically Anu was going through his hot topic edgy phase

>>53101504
If by "practically all of them" you mean "disregarding the vast majority of his work on tumblr, reddit, and c0da, and about half of his imperial library posts, so the vast majority of his work", then yes.

File: 1434638849875.jpg (114KB, 692x577px) Image search: [Google]

114KB, 692x577px

>try to change my character's name using enablenamemenu
>The stats menu is gone on all my characters.
RIP in pancakes. I suppose I'll just have to redownload.

>>53101676
What game? Why not just edit the save file?

>>53094678
Colovians are truely the master race
No other man can compare, now mer could ever even hope to compare

>>53101417
Probably, though it depends on what you mean by "Tribal Orcs".

If you just mean Orcs from tribal communities, then definitely. The Orcish diaspora is pretty pretty big, and they have a tendency to wander. Many Orcs end up joining the Legion, which spreads them around even more. You'll also find a lot of them working in various mercenary groups, or otherwise employed as soldiers of enforcers.
It makes sense, in a lot of ways. Tribes are militarised societies, meaning that a large amount of the Orcs that come from tribes have some level of combat proficiency.

Employing whole tribes is a whole other issue, and not something I think happens often. After all, Orcs are outsiders, and aren't typically ones to have good relations with their neighbours. It would be pretty rare for a Orcish warlord to fight for a Breton noble or something akin to that.

The closest I can think of is Gortwog's alliance of sorts with Lord Woodborne, but that's not exactly normal circumstances.

>>53101676
Morrowind. Because I didn't know I could do that.

>>53101834
>>53101698
Whoops

Does anyone make totally not TES miniatures? I wanted to paint some just for fun. I know that Fallout ones exist, but I haven't seen any Elder Scrolls minis.

>>53101769
>Fat Nordaboos are the master race
Top kek.

File: TESraces.png (305KB, 2496x2728px) Image search: [Google]

305KB, 2496x2728px

So we can all finally agree on this chart, right? Based on influence, significant figures of the race, their homelands, etc.

>>53098693
>Very brief period of time
>1996 - 2006

>>53101986
Argonian to shit, imperial to okay, altmer to god. Otherwise it's fine.

File: chrome_2017-05-07_02-23-19.png (417KB, 429x577px) Image search: [Google]

417KB, 429x577px

>>53101864
Trollforged Human Sun Warriors and Elf Warriors kind of look like Dunmer.
Check out Scrollhammer, the last page has a list of miniatures, though it's mostly Dunmer stuff. I seem to remember Reaper also having some alright not-Khajiit stuff.

>>53101986
Bump argonian up to god tier and we have an agreement

>>53101986
Switch Bosmer with Argonian.

>>53101986
Okay tier:
>Orsimer
>Dunmer
>Altmer
>Bosmer
>Breton
>Imperial
>Nord
>Redguard
>Argonian
>Khajiit

File: 14819137053052.png (319KB, 2646x576px) Image search: [Google]

319KB, 2646x576px

>>53101986
Swap altmer and argonian and we're game

>>53102031
This

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:A_Scroll_For_Anska
Did they say of the scroll actually said anything?

>>53097705
God, so much this.

>>53102386
>>53101986
I can't help but think that Imperials are shit tier because of their emperors are unlikeable and never actually do anything outside of books except being assasinated.
Also the fact that the only Emperor you could actually kill yourself was the only likeable one doesn't help.

>>53102610
Please leave, Ulfric.

>>53102041
Thanks for the advice anon. I'm not sure why I didn't check the Scrollhammer stuff earlier. I will check those out.

>>53102610
I can't help but think that the Chinese are shit tier because of their emperors are unlikeable and never actually do anything outside of books except being assasinated.

>>53102610
Emperor Stewart was pretty likeable.

>>53101795
>Gortwog's alliance of sorts with Lord Woodborne
You want to know how I know you didnt play Daggerfall.

>>53103255
>"The Minat Orcs, one of the more powerful tribes, had agreed to ally themselves with him [Lord Woodborne] - provided he helped them in their claims to start Orsinium".
Daggerfall Companion, page 185-186.

I'm pretty sure Gortwog only breaks with Woodborne upon Lysandus' death.

>>53102778

You mean the one with the pretentious pseudo-Shakespearean dialogue? He was a blathering twat m8. His dialogue made me cringe every time.

>>53101986

Reddit-tier dogshit, and on top of that, anyone who can't find something to like about each of the races probably has some kind of mental problems.

>>53103441
>I will deal with her just as I did with Lysandus. The fool should have agreed to support me. Gortwog and his orcs almost saved him. I'll deal with those sub-humans once I sit upon the throne of Wayrest.
It seems to me Gortwog and Woodborne were at odds from the beginning.
It's astounding how at odds the Chronicles and the actual game are.

>>53103590
Why, hello there reddit.

>>53103743
Don't be ridiculous, Reddit hates Bretons.

>>53103733
I thought the implication of the diary was that Lysandus' death was what broke their alliance.

File: races.png (309KB, 2384x2728px) Image search: [Google]

309KB, 2384x2728px

>>53101986
redpill me on the Bretons. Why are they god tier?

>>53097705
>TES outsourced to platinum
where's the petition

>>53103955
Fuck off Todd, we know original Bretons made you insecure which is why you turned them into pathetic manlets like yourself.

>>53103864
It says they attempted to save him, meaning this was before his death.
The Chronicles actually say that it was Gortwog and his Orcs who killed him.

File: fuji art.jpg (120KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 600x600px

tfw fucking love dwarves.
tfw they are non-existent in TES and or unplayable lore wise with mods.

>>53103998
Strictly speaking the Chronicles say both things. Both that Lysandus' was killed by Orcs, and that Gortwog tried to save him.

The only way I can make sense of it is something semi-convoluted, like:
>Gortwog and Woodborne ally
>Gortwog is going to help Woodborne be king, in return for the support of Wayrest
>Gortwog probably sees this as supporting Woodborne against Barenziah/Helseth
>Woodborne makes his deal with Lysandus and Gohryd to help fake Lysandus' death
>Lysandus and Woodborne head to Tamarilyne Point in secrecy, Lysandus believes he's going to sail to Balfiera
>Woodborne probably planned to have Lysandus killed all along, but he's given extra motive when he hears that Lysandus intends to advise his son
>Woodborne leaves with the Minat Orcs to gain an alibi
>Woodborne tells Gortwog to attack Tamarilyne Point, without telling him that Lysandus is there
>The Orcs attack, Gortwog finds out that Lysandus is going to get killed and tries to stop it, but is too late
>Lysandus is either killed by unaware Orcs or an Wayrest assassin in the chaos, either way Gortwog ends up attacking Wayrest troops once he finds out
>Lysandus was a political sympathiser of Gortwog, and Woodborne's deception causes the alliance to break apart
It kind of works if you assume Woodborne could get the Orcs to attack Lysandus' party without knowing that the king was there.

But I see your point, it's hard to reconcile the book's narrative with the game.

>>53104287
Woodborne killed Lysandus, he reveals this to you himself.
The painting in Wayrest implies that the murder occurred under wraps, during the Battle of Cryngaine field.
There are all sorts of inconsistencies in Daggerfall's plot, and not just with the narrative.

My honest explanation Dragon Break

>>53102716
L
O
L

>>53104058
Nords and Orcs, senpai.

>>53103991
The men are average height and strength. In lore they have more diverse frames than skeleton mode.
>>53103955
Mobile and about to sleep, but I'm quite fond of them.
From a gameplay point of view, they are just amazingly fun to play as. Cast spells while slicing fools up as a magic knight who doesn't give a fuck about magic being cast on him.
From a personal point of view, they are passionate, poetic, willful, intelligent, and pragmatic. They make the best bards, authors, actors, and chefs, and have a distinctive dry wit. Personally, I'd rather hang out with a Breton than an Orc or Argonian.
From a lore point of view, they're the interesting crossing point between the Anuic elves and Padomayic humans, and by far the most interesting take on "half elves" I've seen in fantasy. One might say "but they're fucking dirty mongrel French cucks", but they'd probably be forgetting that 1) Europeans are already mongrels of other European ethnicities, not including the right of Prima Noct many lords had over their own people, and 2) that they aren't based on modern French but on the Celts and Gauls, and 3) Aldmeri rule ended around the First Era. About 3,000 years before Morrowind.

I can't say I speak for all people who like them, of course, just my two cents.

>>53106775
In practice Bretons are just so boring that all that means nothing.

>>53104058
Well, there's Yagrum, so other Dwemer could have survived.

>>53090212
Don't forget the remnants of the Direnni. They are High Elves, but they're a bit distinct culturally and in their relation to the Bretons than High Elves from Summerset.

Where's everyone?

>>53107837
Alright, dude.

>>53111263
I'm here, Anon.

>>53106775
>From a gameplay point of view, they are just amazingly fun to play as. Cast spells while slicing fools up as a magic knight who doesn't give a fuck about magic being cast on him.
I always play bretons as bards. After all, they're known for their battlemages in the Empire, but in the Illiac Bay itself their spies and courtiers are much more important

>not including the right of Prima Noct many lords had over their own people
Isn't that a modern myth to make the "dark ages" seem darker than they actually were?

Anyway, people find bretons boring because the bulk of their lore that survived post-daggerfall/a bit of morrowind art is that they are regular late medieval humans but with magic, the "generic fantasy humans." Of course that means they have these ridiculous wars over trivial territorial disputes, and complex social intrigue, and fucking armoured cavalry, and so on. But they also have several covens of witches living out in the woods, and those who are considered "mages" even among the magical breton people are insane, twisted shapeshifters, like >>53090212 or hagravens. In fact, unsanctioned Breton magic seems to be the source of or at least deeply related to any non-vampiric shapeshifting in the setting, being tied even to lycanthropy.

Of course in the early games they were also described as tall, gaunt, pale people, actually resembling crossbreeds rather than albanians.

File: 1457411704616.jpg (247KB, 650x813px) Image search: [Google]

247KB, 650x813px

>>53084727
Peryite for me. Is he a good guy? Eh. But he doesn't really screw over his servants, and he gives them a lot of freedom from what I understand. You aren't going to turn insane, or be forced to murder.

>>53111394
Hello.

File: 1484367174345.jpg (256KB, 700x800px) Image search: [Google]

256KB, 700x800px

Which Telvanni Tower would you want to be a guard at? I'm thinking Tel Mora would be nice.

>>53112432
Isn't Tel Mora the tower of the radfem one?

>>53112432
Tel Fyr

>>53111400
I'm aware why people find them boring, people like to post about it whenever it's brought up that someone likes Bretons and why.

It probably wasn't too common, but considering how casually it's thrown around in legends like Cú Chulainn, the average person had probably had an idea of it.

I never understood why Bretons weren't taller. I understand that the women are short and pretty and why, but that really wouldn't effect the men.

>>53112432
>>53112449
I don't think Tel Mora sounds too bad as long as you avoid the Lady of the tower. Most would imagine it's like getting endless pussy, but I doubt it. One of the shop keepers is even implied to be lesbian. Being the one of the only males around does sound like you'd be flirted with, though.

>>53111828
Peryite is my second choice, used to be my first. Meridia is first now, but with that said, I don't really understand using "good" as a metric when determining your favourite Prince. Their whole deal is that either they're all evil and any appearance of good is a facade, or they're all neutral and it's mortals applying labels that only apply to mortals to the gods that think there are "good" and "bad" daedra.

>>53084727
Azura.

Maybe Herma Mora or Sanguine.

>>53112432
Tel Naga, Neloth has only ever done anything seriously fucked up to his apprentices and is just an out of touch but condescending grandpa to everyone else.

Is there any obscure(ish ?) lore on Sanguine ? There seems to be barely anything on him.

File: mora_by_m5w-d6h00i5.png (163KB, 578x459px) Image search: [Google]

163KB, 578x459px

>>53084727
Hermaeus Mora every time. He's so cute.

>Only in the west do the mountains abate to the canyons and mesas of the Reach, by far the most cosmopolitan of the Holds of Skyrim, Nords of the pure blood holding only the barest majority according to the recent Imperial Census. The rest of Skyrim is a vertical world: the high ridges of the northwest-to-southeast slanting mountain ranges, cleft by deep, narrow valleys where most of the population resides. Along the sides of the river valleys, sturdy Nord farmers raise a wide variety of crops; wheat flourishes in the relatively temperate river bottoms, while only the snowberry bushes can survive in the high orchards near the treeline. The original Nord settlements were generally established on rocky crags overlooking a river valley; many of these villages still survive in the more isolated Holds, especially along the Morrowind frontier. In most of Skyrim, however, this defensive posture was deemed unnecessary by the mid-first era, and most cities and towns today lie on the valley floors, in some cases still overlooked by the picturesque ruins of the earlier settlement.

Oh, what may have been

>>53112850
Except he kills or betrays his servants when he feels they are no longer useful, purely to keep any secrets they know secret. The more secrets you know, the more likely he is to kill you.

File: lydia_cat_by_darrengeers-d71dqmd.jpg (120KB, 1191x670px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 1191x670px

>>53113683
Killing servants that aren't useful.

Oh, like you don't either.

>>53113683
I'm sure I'll be fine.

File: 1486879270196.jpg (148KB, 1024x1448px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 1024x1448px

If there was one quest you'd write for the next elder scrolls game, what would it be? Mine would be Redoran Lord's daughter kidnaps helpless Telvanni Lord.

>>53084727
>4th Era
>Worshipping daedra
are you kidding me?

>>53114227
You'd have the option to humiliate or kill the Telvanni Lord, right?

File: humies123.jpg (375KB, 1150x1138px) Image search: [Google]

375KB, 1150x1138px

Hello, my fellow humans. We should purge the elves, yes?

File: 3981076998_9dfd5698f8_b.jpg (264KB, 1024x640px) Image search: [Google]

264KB, 1024x640px

>>53114227

>>53114366
>even in negative propaganda redguards are always top tier

>>53114227
That sounds pretty kinky, and makes way for an obviously inferior lord to be replaced by a better Telvanni. Sounds Telvanni-approved.

>>53097735
>non saxleel argonian
>literaly MK memeing about otherkin on reddit

The concept was never good.
Everything we know about HIst lore is about the Hist physically changing things.
MKs entire idea of "Argonian is a state of mind" was just him shitting on argonians and comparing them to otherkin.

Hes a good source on dunmer lore but ignore him on argonians.

>>53112513
>I understand that the women are short and pretty and why, but that really wouldn't effect the men
What exactly are you talking about?

File: Naga_Concept_Art.png (695KB, 1235x1077px) Image search: [Google]

695KB, 1235x1077px

>>53092754
>>53092733
a DLC for ESO that probably got canceled included them as lung fish people, so not poor mans tsaesci but rather weird still.
>pic related

Also they got the Argonian Behemoth which is probably waht the argonians turned into during the oblivion fuckery.

>>53094364
>Landsknecht
>Breton

If anything Landsknechts would be Men of Kreath
Frenchfags need not apply for landsknechts.

>>53101986
>Breton
>Not absolute garbage tier

Bretons lost their legitimacy a long time ago.
The entire lore community keeps bending over backwards just to make them into anyhting but generic french people.

Imperials needed oblivion to ruin them, Bretons were never interresting.

Reachmen are just strictly more interresting Bretons with the focus on druidism, hedge magic and beeing mongrelmen.

I dunno if this counts as a trend but ashlanders and reachmen both seem to have got a shirt stick in the games they showed up in. Each have a legitimate claim to land but are slowly being pushed out because they are nomadic or dont practice agriculture and so have no practical means to defend their ways of life. I feel like they both could have used alot more development and quest lines instead of being used as just another of the generic enemies you fight with only one or two groups of them not attacking on sight so you can find out what they're about.