/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls General

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first for the three stooges

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Remember to praise Azurah.

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Any theories on if the Nerevarine could Shout?

The Lost Prophecy names him Dragonborn, among other titles. Perhaps he had the power but there just weren't any dragons to slay.

>>52818220
It's referring to him as "born under the dragon" as part of the empire.
>"From seventh sign of eleventh generation,
>Neither Hound nor Guar, nor Seed nor Harrow,
>But Dragon-born and far-star-marked,
>Outlander Incarnate beneath Red Mountain,
>Blessed Guest counters seven curses,
>Star-blessed hand wields thrice-cursed blade,
>To reap the harvest of the unmourned house."
>"I've annotated your copy of 'The Lost Prophecy' with our best efforts at interpretation. But a rough summary might be: 'An outlander -- foreign-born, but welcomed as a guest -- confronts seven curses beneath Red Mountain. His hand, blessed by Azura, uses a cursed blade to bring justice to House Dagoth, or House Dwemer, or both.' The Nerevarine? An outlander? That wouldn't please many Ashlanders, and may explain how the prophecy got lost."

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>>52818160
And desecrate Azura

>>52818596
Sounds too farfetched to me...

>>52819968
I hope you're joking.

I fucking hate ESO, but this deserves attention nonetheless.

Sermon Thirty-Seven

You have discovered the thirty-seventh Sermon of Vivec, which is a bending of the light, long past the chronicles of the Hortator who wore inconstant faces and ruled however they would, until apocalypse.

Vivec was borne by ribbons of water, which wrote their starward couplings in red. This was a new place of speed. His eyes broke on the spikes above the tower, Where the Void Ghost squatted over a drake-scaled drum, imbecile in its rhythm. And he asked of it:

"Who are you that need no signature at all?"

Three in sum, the robes of Ayem stretched towards the bright black rim of memory, roping an arch of purchase. This was a new sprinting task. And Seht held his swollen body to its name, clockmakers daughter, swimming the dead confession along a century ahead. Naming her, uneaten, a golden cache of Veloth and Velothi, for where else would they know to go?
"Go here, world without wheel, charting zero deaths, and echoes singing," Seht said, until all of it was done, and in the center was anything whatever.

And the red moment became a great howling unchecked, for the Provisional House was in ruin. And Vivec became as glass, a lamp, for the dragons mane had broke, and the red moon bade him come.

"The sign of royalty is not this," a signal blueshift (female) told him, "There is no right lesson learned alone."

cont.

>>52820529
He refused the twine on her catching net, spiteful that an uncontinued people would not become fuller by their searching, and yet were wracked in their spirits for flight. But the male signals were offended, and Vivec took a fighting form. He undid his eastern light, saying to the ALMSIVI that through war, they had become brides in glass, which no power could observe.
The light bent, and Vivec donned a cuirass made of red plates of jewel, and a mask that marked him born in the lands of Man. Wheeling, he spread into an insect salve, worn on the neck of hist-bulbs when at challenge. He roared up and fed his fingers to mammoth ghosts. The signal fires wondered if they mistook this for surrender, for Vivec had told the void that he could learn to undo it all.

The light bent, and somewhere a history was finally undone. Of it, Vivec remembered the laughing of the netchimen of his village when the hunts were good. He marched with his father in the ash, growing strong in the hooks and sail, able to run a junk through silt. At eleven, he sung to an ashkhan. He became sick after Red Mountain, with the nix-blood and fever, and was infirm a hundred years. His mother survived him and laid his body on the altar of Padhome. She gave him her skin to wear into the underworld.
The light bent, and Vivec awoke and grew fangs, unwilling to make of herself a folding thing. This was a new and lunar promise. And in her Biting she tunneled up and then downward, while her brother and sister smeared across heaven, thin ruptures of dissent, food for scarabs and the Worm. She took her people and made them safe, and sat with Azura drawing her own husbands likeness in the dirt.

"For I have removed my left hand and my right, he will say," she said, "for that is how I shall win against them. Love alone and you shall know only the mistakes of salt."

The worlding of the words is AMARANTH.

Apparently this was written by MK for ESO and leaked.

Even better than Sermon Zero.

>>52820541
>Apparently this was written by MK for ESO and leaked
when, where?

>>52820529
>world without wheel, charting zero deaths, and echoes singing
>[w]orld [w]ithout [w]heel, [c]harting [zero] [d]eaths, [a]nd [e]choes [s]inging

>>52821179
It was posted on teslore but then got deleted because of some non-disclodure bullshit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/66a7h9/eso_morrowind_36_lessons_of_vivec_sermon_37/

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>>52820541
>MK is doing shit for ESO
Well I might just set out to explore Vvardenfell again after all.

>>52821225
For me personally it drags MK down, not ESO up.
Then again, MK is already known to make questionable lore (Many-Headed Talos).

>>52820529
>borne by ribbons of water, which wrote their starward couplings in red.
stopped reading there, I can already tell this is some faux-kirkbride pretentious shit

>>52818220
>>52818596
This is a contestable point since in every other instance "dragonborn" is interpreted as being the blessed of akatosh and among those worthy of the ruby throne with the souls of a dragon so you could consume other dragons, and for some reason soft retconned in Skyrim to also mean having the natural ability to shout (Tiber Septim did not have this, as Wulfharth had to shout for him, likely leading him to slit his own throat and blame it on another breton assassin so he would have an excuse not to use "his" abilities after a disagreement with Wulfharth; most Tongues were not dragonborn anyway). However, the wise women in Morrowind interpret dragon-born as meaning born in the Empire, corroborating the later identification of the Nerevarine as an outlander, and iirc it's also the only time it is actually written with a hyphen. The wise women are by no means infallible, though, and a typographical quirk doesn't necessarily have deeper meaning. You could as easily argue that it would then be redundant with the later statement that the Nerevarine is an outlander (or that said statement would be redundant, rather).

So yeah it's possible that he was dragonborn as in dovahkiin, and it's also possible that "dragon-born" is what Ashlanders call those born in Cyrodiil and that the prophecy was written with that in mind.

>>52821225
Why? He's just been taking the piss since C0DA, and was already in a clear state of decline before that. I don't think he actually cares about the setting at all anymore, he just cares that there are a bunch of people that will latch onto anything he says about it no matter how stupid and give him the attention and validation he craves.

>>52821260
>the seven fights

>>52821260
Yeah, I vaaaastly prefer Cyrodiil's transformation having zero explanation whatsoever. Not!

>>52821479
>Cyrodiil's transformation
Never happened, Oblivion is not canon.

>>52821476
You're basically retarded if you seriously think the Nerevarine is a Dovahkiin. It's wordplay.

>>52821495
You aren't canon.

>>52821479
LotR hype cashgrab. There you go.

>>52821396
It's actually just kirkbride's regularly shitty pretentious shit trash.

>>52821479
>flimsy justifications are totally better than accepting a handwave

Just because something is justified after the fact doesn't mean it wasn't a retcon. Drawing attention to it with bad lore just makes it worse. Instead of being a meta thing it's now pulled down what's canon to include something worse.

>>52821497
There is actually no reason at all to assume that isn't what it means beyond the wise women saying they think it means born in the Empire.

>it's wordplay
It would only work as a play on words if the Nerevarine WAS dovahkiin (as in using "dragon-born" to mean both "dovahkiin" AND "born in the Empire"), retard.

>>52821550
Yep, that's the reason it was done from a game development standpoint.

>>52821555
No one said it wasn't a retcon. Tiber doing godshit isn't "bad lore". Having any explination at all takes it from "stupid" to "acceptable". Literally any explanation.

If you don't like Kirkbride, but still like TES, I don't know what to say: you must be some sort of fucking idiot, because he's the only good thing in the entire franchise. The rest is generic fantasy trash.

>>52821560
Do you seriously think that any time anyone, anywhere uses the term "dragon" and "born" in the same sentence that it implies someone has dragonsoul? That no one has ever just referenced the concept? It is 100% intentionally referring to the Nerevarine coming from the empire, nothing else.

>>52821479
I'll have to agree with this.

>>52820529
>>52820541
It honestly doesn't read much like one of the lessons. Like, Sermon Zero feels more fitting to the lessons and that was written by Goodall. Do we know for sure Kirkbride wrote it?

Is it intended to be genuine, or are we supposed to be guessing if that's true like with sermon zero?

>>52821628
>Having any explination at all takes it from "stupid" to "acceptable". Literally any explanation.
>he's the only good thing in the entire franchise. The rest is generic fantasy trash.
Typical MKocksucker from teslore.

>>52821696
It references a lot of concepts that only he would probably reference, c0da stuff, the Magne Ge, Dies Irae (supposedly). I buy it.

Supposedly some Khajiit once stole the 37th Sermon before it was written, but who knows?

>>52821628
>If you don't like Kirkbride, but still like TES, I don't know what to say: you must be some sort of fucking idiot, because he's the only good thing in the entire franchise. The rest is generic fantasy trash
Spoken like a true fucking lorelet

>people are actually talking about sermon zero
Haven't seen that in a while.

>>52821719
What the fuck kind of fantasy world do you want, shithead: one where half the discussions start and end with
>well, uh, I guess it was just a meaningless retcon
or one where there's actually something to fucking talk about?

>>52821737
Yeah, because those Tedders books really have the content to drive 20 years of lore discussion alone.

>>52821628
>Do you seriously think that any time anyone, anywhere uses the term "dragon" and "born" in the same sentence
>the literal term "dragonborn" is the same as just using both words in the same sentence and definitely does not refer to a dragonborn
2/8, a point for each reply you got from me.

>>52821628
>Having any explination at all takes it from "stupid" to "acceptable"
So I take it you're willing to gobble up any kind of bullshit as long as it comes from Kirkbride's second aperture?

>>52821788
Yup, the term "dragonborn" can never be used in allegory, everything must be taken at face value, even when NPCs spell out the meaning directly.

>>52821801
In this case, where literally anything would be less bullshit than
>it just is, okay?

>>52821753
I don't know about you, but I'm perfectly content with ES Lore 3E Edition, with jungled Cyrodiil and full Nordic pantheon.

>>52821889
Would have been lovely. Unfortunately, it's not the case. Blame Bethesda. The change wasn't make on account of MK's explanation. Make do with what you've got.

Or do you mean Project Tamriel? It's going to be great.

>>52821840
The original explanation was, "yeah, we know we fucked up, sorry about that." Cyrodiil being mostly forest and plains instead of more extreme biomes bordering each other wasn't canon, word of god was "we wanted the lotr audience, no it isn't actually supposed to be like that." This isn't hard to understand.

>>52821916
>The change wasn't make on account of MK's explanation.
Yes, but on the other hand he didn't have to try justifying what was obviously just a marketing move. At the end we have not only a bullshit retcon, but also a bullshit explanation, a loss-loss situation.

>>52821777
It never seizes to amaze me how little you people actually appreciate the lore once you get down to it. I haven't even indicated I'm even against Kirkbride's writings here, you just immediately jumped to this defensive stance, where you dismiss everything Krikbride hasn't written.

Well let me tell you something, none of Krikbride's lore would even warrant a discussion, without those supposedly "generic" texts.
I mean, have you people never even heard of the concept of "worldbuilding." Literally everything Kirkbride wrote is meaningless without the immense amount of substance and depth that already exists behind it, it's nothing, you wouldn't even give a shit about any of it.

Do you even realize how actually large the overall Elder Scrolls lore is, or did you just learn everything you 'know' from circle jerking with other likeminded people on reddit?

>>52821993
That's not the case. Even if it ever was, it isn't anymore, not when you have scholars IN-UNIVERSE saying "hey, why do all these old texts say Cyrodiil was a jungle? What's up with that?" Not when there are alternative theories to explain it, like Towerforming. Regardless of WHY, these things enrich the setting. This is the only reason TES is worth discussing over some other shitty fantasy universe.

>>52821995
Nah. I repeat: imagine someone asks "so, what's with Oblivion not being a jungle?"

You have two answers:
>Tiber did it.
>There is no reason, so lets ignore it

Besides, what's bullshit about Tiber doing it?

>>52821628
>Having any explination at all takes it from "stupid" to "acceptable". Literally any explanation.

Oh so you have no standards okay.

>>52822156
>It never seizes to amaze me
sayings like this are a diamond dozen in this doggy dog world.

Seriously though, people give kirkbride WAY too much credit. He wrote the mythic dawn commentaries, which a lot of idiots don't even consider canon or consider to be in-context falsehoods because they don't understand the comparison of the Princes to their enantiomorphs, the lessons of vivec, which are okay but not stupendous or anything, and parts of the PGE, which is his most important work. Kuhlmann is far more important and responsible for the grand themes of the setting, and much more credible to boot, given he 1: actually still works at BGS and 2: hasn't made a sport out of fucking with idiotic fans the way MK has

>>52822194
>not when you have scholars IN-UNIVERSE saying "hey, why do all these old texts say Cyrodiil was a jungle? What's up with that?"
>he thinks ESO is canon
other guy was right, you're a total mkocksucker. Bet you also hated ESO when MK did right up to the point where he was paid to throw in his support for it.

>Regardless of WHY, these things enrich the setting.
They don't though. They cheapen it, reduce it to the level of something like a shonen anime or the sillier iterations of superhero comics.

>>52822156
I've read everything in the series. Everything.

Everything. Goodall's forum posts explaining the version of Ta'agra that never got finished. Speculation for Morrowind before it was released. IRC chatlogs. I am exaggerating slightly, there are other good writers in the series. But it's the other way around: none of it would matter without Kirkbride. None of it would be enough to make the series any more than "mildly interesting but ultimately forgettable fantasy series #123563457."

Plus, Kirkbride was a participant in all of those early worldbuilding exercises like the PGE1. For some reason people (who don't actually know anything about the lore) think that MK only does "that wacky metaphysical stuff." But he doesn't.

>>52822208
And you can't read, clearly.

>>52822248
He's written a hell of a lot more than that, dude. For starters, everything we know about the Ayleid.
>But, what abo-
No, seriously, virtually everything we know about them is derived from his work.

>>52822302
Are you from /v/ or something?
>made up names like "nintoddler" "sonygger" and "mkocksucker"
>completely baseless accusations of "shilling"

>>52822394
>made up names like "nintoddler" "sonygger" and "mkocksucker"
I only used one of those and I was literally quoting another poster. Are you okay, anon? Did you take your pills today?

>completely baseless accusations of "shilling"
So did you only get into TES after that or something? MK was having a fucking meltdown over ESO until suddenly he just stopped, deleted a bunch of old forum posts he had made even predating the announcement of ESO that could be interpreted as being anti-ESO and started talking about how cool it was and how much he loved it. The only other likely explanation for this is that his dumbshit girlfriend hopped on board and he wanted to play with her and didn't want to seem like an ass the entire time.

>>52822463
Paranoia is a sign of mental instability. Coming up with inane conspiracy theories too. Did you remember to take your pills today, or is your live-in nurse responsible for that?

>>52822494
>inane conspiracy theories
A key component of those is that they lack tangible evidence. So that's a yes to "did you only get into TES after that or something?" I guess.

>>52822512
Yeah, all that juicy tangible evidence that LadyN convinced him to get into it, or maybe your access to his bank records. Do you have their place bugged? Do the transmissions beam directly to your tinfoil hat?

>>52818138
>Keep the squabbling to a minimum

>>52822324
See, I agree with you that Kirkbride's writings are important, a lot of my favorite texts are his, and yes I'm aware Kirkbride worked on the first Pocket Guide (arguably the most important part of the lore).
This doesn't change that you are giving him too much credit. Kirkbride isn't the sole savior of the lore, he is not its face. The lore was created by a whole bunch of people and every single of one of them played an important and crucial role in building what we know. The sooner people come to accept this fact, the sooner the lore can finally be seen for what it is. A whole.

>>52822535
When you have to resort to fallacies to prop up your argument (or rather, attack an opposing argument), your position is not very strong. Maybe you should keep that in mind.

>>52822710
It's a joke, everybody knows /tgesg/ is autism central and people only come here to fling shit at each other

>>52822825
Not long ago (less than a year) this actually was a great place for discussion and when people acted like retards they were frowned upon.

That's why I don't give free games away anymore...

>>52822784
You're right. Sometimes it just goes so far in the opposite extreme with people trying to discredit MK, acting like other people were way more important and whatever. But it's not really an exaggeration to say that TES, as we know it, only exists because of him. The only reason we're here talking about it now, and the only reason that all of those other creators had something to work off on in the first place is because of him and Kurt messing around with crazy sci-fi ideas and Todd going "hey, put that in Redguard."

Yeah, without that TES would still exist, but there wouldn't be anything deeper than the word "daedra."

>>52822824
You're entire "argument" is made up slander from the start, man.

>>52822859
I got one from you, so thanks again.

>>52822825
No, this place has frequently been better, and resigning ourselves to the notion that it's "autism central" isn't going to help anything.

>>52822859
That period was unusual though, before that /tgesg/ was also shit. I mean, the thread was mostly frequented by people actually dumb enough to get butthurt when newfag anime lovers in /vg/'s /tesg/ would bitch about lore discussion (while most of the oldfags didn't give a fuck or participated themselves). Most of the good shit two years ago was C0DA discussion and actual discussion of the parts of the thread that belong on /tg/ (ie the homebrew TTRPG systems), it was 90% memes and vicious arguments over shit like whether "dragon-born" means "dragonborn" or Kirkbride's credibility. We should of course aspire to have a better thread but this is more of a return to form than anything.

>>52823060
It's half the fun.

>>52823140
It's actually pretty sad.

>>52823140
I used to think that too but arguing recreationally gets old after a couple of years, especially if it's about the same tired subjects all the fucking time.

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Time for serious lore talk.
Daggerfall bestiary was mostly generic fantasy critters plus a couple setting-specific ones (like Dreughs). What unique creatures could High Rock theoretically have if it was made after ES strayed away from common fantasy tropes?
For example, in Shadowkey there were flying rays and jellyfish/octopus-like creatures and, of course, wormmouths. But these all are from Western Reach, what about other parts of the province?

>>52822951
>but there wouldn't be anything deeper than the word "daedra."
You see, there you go again. What you say is not even true.
Even in Daggerfall there were books that already established lore musing on the nature of the gods and metaphysics in the series.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:King_Edward,_Part_XII
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:The_Old_Ways
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:An_Overview_of_Gods_And_Worship
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:The_Light_and_the_Dark

All of which introduce concepts that seem to have directly inspired a lot of the lore Kirkbride would later write into the series.

There were even all sorts of subtle little hints towards something bigger, beyond the worldly frame, driving the plot behind Daggerfall. Especially in regards to Numidium.

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>>52823376
Wormmouth.

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>>52823453
Floater.

>>52823449
None of those are particularly deep or interesting or worth discussing.

If that was all the series had to offer, it would be no better than any of the other series that litter this board.

>>52823376
I like the take on nymphs, though I guess that's "generic" in that they draw from mythology instead of star wars. I always felt High Rock would probably be populated with more "generic" beasts anyway, though. It's more of a typical fantasy civilisation, which would naturally be shaped by more of a typical fantasy environment. Hammerfell was also featured in Daggerfall but I feel like there might be all manner of weird sand-beasts in the alik'r for example, like dune-esque worms, amphibious creatures that rarely see water, giant insects as beasts of burden or even some really wild shit like camels.

>>52823492
>None of those are particularly deep or interesting or worth discussing.
That's a matter of opinion and yours is bad

>>52823628
No, seriously. The Old Ways is pretty cool, but other than that do you really think it's enough to sustain decades of in-depth lore discussion?

>>52823140
You'll grow out of it.

>>52823159
Mostly joking.

>>52823280
It help to not show up for months.

>>52823699
Hopefully.

>>52823471
>>52823453
>>52823376
>you will never play Shadowkey

>>52823752
I've seriously been entertaining the thought of buying a N-Gage just to play it. However just the game itself on Ebay is 129 USD.

Here's some dank Shadowkey lore:
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Shadowkey:Scroll_of_Shadow

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>>52823628
Nymphs are interesting, yes. Somewhat related, there's also an interesting book on Faerie in Daggerfall:
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Faerie
but sadly, there weren't referenced later. Well, except an offhand mention of Gheateus in PGE3, of course.
Deeper, more obscure celtic mythology inspirations (Aos Si? Fomorians) would fit High Rock rather nicely, I think.

Also, maybe some kind of "speculative evolution"/chimera mammals? Just enough to be weird but still mostly believable. For example, I have this idea of a giant star-nosed mole that occupies same ecological niche as bears. Too dumb?

>>52823492
You are unbelievable. Is it seriously that hard for you to just admit that maybe, Kirkbride isn't the only person that has provided the series depth?
It's like you're fucking threatened by this idea or something.

>>52823376
Lamias, Harpies, giant woolly caterpillars, Gargoyles, Dragonlings, Centaurs. Generally an abundance of half-humans.

Honestly, as much as I'd like to see weirder stuff, visual strangeness is usually secondary to their context in the lore. Minotaurs, Dragons, Giants, Hagravens, and their like are monsters that just lifted from other fantasy, but the lore surrounding them makes them more interesting.
Cliffracers are just pterodactyls, Shalk are just big beetles, Alit/Guar/Kagouti are goofy dinosaurs. It's the lore that surrounds them and the way they're presented that makes them something more.

>>52823838
There's actually probably more to it than that. The Gheateus, trolls, giants and ancient Atmorans, etc, are all connected, if you look hard enough. It's probably the Ehlnofey, from which Fey would be derived.

>>52823865
Sure, lots of people contributed. But it would be stupid and reactionary to pretend like he didn't do it the most and the best.

The new Sotha Sil lore for Morrowind is actually really good.

>>52824148
Isn't there one where he just tells the user to go to www.c0da.es?

>>52824148
the god or the city?

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>>52824185
Both.

>>52824175
Yes. A bunch of trainwiz's lore also comes up.

>>52824011
Kwama designs are really clever, though

>>52824185
The god is the city.

>>52824226
>A bunch of trainwiz's lore also comes up.

Nice.

>>52824226
Oh, no wonder why he's shilling it 24/7

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>>52824011
Yeah, I guess the problem is that we don't have much info on what Daggerfall creatures actually are. Are Dragonlings smaller shards of Aka went mortal? Are Centaurs a lost Bjoulsae tribe that fused with their steeds? Who made the Gargoyles?

>>52824342
He's right though, he's got a 36 Lessons style book series called the Truth In Sequence and it is actually really good. It introduces a lot of fascinating concepts for Sotha Sil, as well as affirms a bunch of c0da concepts.

>>52824393
You forgot to put your name on, 'Wiz.

>>52824393
Got a link?

>>52824393
I don't have a problem with that, what disgusts me is how he enables all the anticonsumer garbage they pull off.

>>52824470
https://pastebin.com/ekQtNmk6

>>52824515
>They are the Anti-Gears that turn counter to the Nameless Will. Servants of the Padomaic untruth whose nature is void. Of the Daedra, only the Gray Prince of Order knew his nature, and he went mad in the knowing.

Interesting.

>>52824573
Which parallels Akatosh's madness

>>52820541
>>52820529
Sounds like MK's pretentious gibberish to me, yep

>>52824776
Pretentious, sure. But it ain't gibberish.

>>52824798
What the fuck is a pomegranate banquet?

>>52821260
you mean it drags ESO down. MK is a fucking joke and only gets the little work that he does because reddit is full egotistical circle jerk liberal mode

I was looking around teslore the other day and saw a lot of posts using the xe hir etc for Vivec's gender pronouns
Is this some joke? I don't get it

>>52825031
Blame Rotten Deadite.

>>52825031
There's a tumblr crowd that gets mad when you don't use neutral-pronouns for Vivec. Despite the fact that HE uses male pronouns.

>>52824830
A banquet of pomegranates you idiot

>>52825054
I could see Vivec Ironically using gender neutral pronouns to trigger red pilled Nords

>>52825241
Except that's not a thing in TES. That whole deal is stupid, because Vivec might be omnisexual and omnigendered but still clearly identifies as male. They aren't following their own fucking rules.

>>52825319
>They aren't following their own fucking rules.
Welcome to SJWs.

>>52825225
I understand...

>>52825337
Remember when they got pissed at trainwiz for saying Almalexia was a bad person

>>52824515
>But most profane is this: the walking horror that bears the Name, NM. The Brass Tower of Vanity. The mindless guardian of the Nirn-Prior. The Antipodal-God-Thing that reigns on the darkest pole of the sacred Nirn-Sphere. Of all the threats to Tamriel Final, NM is the greatest. Anuvanna'si. The Daedra can be banished in thought, but NM must be sundered on Nirn. It is the welded knot at the center of Anu that must be untied. The God-Puzzle.

What is Numidium even doing during ESO? Just sitting in a hangar?

>>52825381
Yes. The Tribunal have it currently, and would later give it to Tiger Septim

>>52825499
>Tiger Septim
Tosh Raka?

>>52824015
>But it would be stupid and reactionary to pretend like he didn't do it the most and the best.
He didn't though. That's Kurt.

>>52824393
The real question: Does Dagoth Ur appear anywhere at all, like as a mid-level raid boss?

>>52827450
Dagoth does not appear anywhere, and there is not a single mention of the word Dagoth at all. There is one section with Sixth House descendants in a dungeon, but they are family cultists, not dreamers.

>>52827450
You fight him, but through your fight you start to understand you're not so different after all and then the true baddie is revealed and you have to join together and essentially he becomes the Vegeta to your Goku
This is the new canon, the smelly "old guard" can either get on board or gtfo

>>52827457
Oh, all ancestral tombs have the names of the families out front and some have the Sixth House symbol beneath them, no idea what that means though. Probably a way for the temple to track which families were once 6th House.

>>52827532
Does the Temple even keep track of that? Before Dagoth Ur appeared did the Tribunal even realize he wasn't dead?

How do I play Arena? Like installers or overhaul mods? Should I even bother? Or is it old and bad?

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So...

Argonians would win in an all-out race war, right?

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>this thread
Guess some trolls got banned from vg and ended up here.
>>52829288
You mean argonians vs everyone else or a free for all?
Depends how much the hist would act about it happening probably.

>>52829501
>trolls got banned
This isn't reddit you know

>>52829680
3day is a pretty common occurrence, as im sure you're familiar with

>>52829691
Seeing as you seem to know what you're talking about, I imagine you're pretty familiar with it yourself

>>52829501
>You mean argonians vs everyone else or a free for all?
I meant free for all, but both could work.

And would you people please stop trying to blame the shitposting on /vg/? Honestly, we don't need a scapegoat, and it's highly unlikely considering the focus of the shitposters over there.

>>52818138
So how godly is the Nerevarine?

First 5 minutes I used the Soul trap glitch to have enough magicka for days, resist any and all spells or just absorb them, and became strong enough to kill anybody with a cheap steel mace. And with 10 times Divayth Fyr HP.

>>52829833
Nerevarine can 1 hit Dagoth with a fork

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I play every ES game as Nord

>>52830483
>Dragonborn, I'm Stormcloak

>>52830590
Did Nolan shamelessly rip Skyrim off?
>the prisoner plan I just filed with General Tullius lists Ulfric, Ralof, Lokir, but not you
>first one to talk gets to keep their head

So yesterday I was thinking about the in-universe etymology. Specifically Dunmerish etymology. It was more of a free flowing trail of thoughts then any sort of concise and purposeful study but it did help me smack myself in the head with something obvious so I figured it couldn't hurt to greentext it.

>Been playing Skyrim
>Thinking about how the Nords refer to hermaeus mora as 'Old Herma Mora'
>Also known as 'The Woodland Man'
>The Morag Tong started out as the legitimate Foresters Guild in Morrowind
>The name still literally translates to Foresters guild
>Deduced that Tong meant guild/group because Comona Tong is a guild and the only shared word in there name was tong
>Can't remember where I read it but I know that Mora means Forrest in Dunmerish
>Adding 'g' to the end of a word must be the same as the 'er' suffix
>Herma Mora, Woodland Man
>Woodland = Forrest
>The Nords and Dunmer may have the same word for Forrest/woodlands
>How can this be? What an amazing revelation!
>Come to the realization that Mora is probably just Deadric for Forest and that the Dunmer learnt their language from their based deadric ancesters

Still though it makes me wonder what connection Hermaeus Mora has with forrests. I could understand why the Nords would see him as the trickster/evil thing living in the woods due to the legends of him and Ysgramor and so they gave him an appropriate name. That still doesn't explain why the Dremoric word for forest is in the name he is commonly known by.

>>52830867
>Deduced that Tong meant guild/group
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tong_(organization)

>>52830867
Mora is basically the universal word for "wood." I think even Ehlnofex uses the term.
But I believe the translation doesn't always literally denote 'wood' or 'forest,' but could also be interpreted as meaning something 'shady' or 'secluded,' referring to something hidden or mysterious.
I'm basing this on the Aldmeri root-word "Mor," meaning 'dark.'

>>52830705
>You're a skilled Tongue
>For Thu'um

>>52831153
That's pretty interesting anon, I didn't know that. First thing that came to mind is Morthal and now that I know that the name seems fitting. Could you point me to your sources though? Not that I doubt you, just something I would like to read up on.

>>52830921
It's no fun to just look it up without having a think about it anon. Thinking about it was what assured me that Mora did infact translate to wood/forest instead of just kind of vaguely guessing that it did.

Going through the thread and ain't surprised in the slightest. You just can't have a discussion if words like C0DA, MK or ESO are mentioned. The level of this place, man. Never change, /tgesg/...

>>52824015
>The Gheateus, trolls, giants and ancient Atmorans, etc, are all connected, if you look hard enough. It's probably the Ehlnofey, from which Fey would be derived.
Very interesting. So there are/were a number of less-degenerated Ehlnofey running around?

>>52830867
Well, that's interesting!

>>52821531
And then anon became a dreamboy

>>52829123
>How do I play Arena?
With patience.

>Like installers or overhaul mods?
Get that one mod that changes the control scheme into something sensible.

>Or is it old and bad?
Old: Yes.
Bad: Kind of.

>>52829501
It's the worst it has been for ages.

>>52820529
>>52820541
Hmm. So there's a few c0da references here (the sneaky url link, Vivec referencing how Jubal cuts off his hands to beat Numidium in the future, the Worm referring to Akatosh). Not sure I get the other bits of it. Anyone done an analysis of this yet?

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>>52830867
Isn't "herma" the word for knowledge? So herma-mora would be a "forrest of knowledge", or a library.

>>52834837
Herma Mora is also known as Woodland Man.

I've just received my blessings from the Temple of Kynareth, who should be slain first those Orc pigmen causing trouble, or a recently discovered witch coven?

Was the dragon soul originally a blessing of Alduin?
And if yes would it explain the difference between the dragonborn emperors and the nord heroes?

>>52835338
Prior to the Marukhati Selective breaking Akatosh from Auriel, they were all the same god. An ancient Nord blessed by Alduin would have also been blessed by Akatosh, Alkosh, Auriel, etc.
The emperors have dragon blood not dragon souls.

>>52835338
Dragon souls are purely Skyrim invention.

>Orichalc was originally a Yokudan material
>Now it's Orcish because it sounds orcish
Did HoonDing sail to Tamriel, get the material from orcs, then sail back? How do they explain this?

>>52835823
Whoever did crafting for Skyrim was a complete retard.
And yes, they never explained it, but just wait, MK will write a little story about how orichalc was retroactively chimmed to Tamriel.

>>52830483
>after playing Morrowind can only play as a Dunmer

Free me from this prison, anons. How do you cure being a Dunmerboo? Have I been deceived by ALMSIVI?

>>52835823
>>52829933
>>52829833
Sometimes you just have to divorce gamelogic from the lore. You really have to put yourself in some kind of permanent doublethink to be able to appreciate both. Not that it's a bad thing, people here just need to accept the devs are going to change things to make the games more accessible, or simply that game mechanics are not part of the lore, and enjoy both for what they are.

Like console commands being CHIM is obviously bullshit. It's a video game, what do you expect? Because the Morrowind pc can jump across Vvardenfell by chugging 100 fortify agility potions doesn't mean the lore Nerevarine can. In a "real" setting you would probably puke from all those potions. This place would be so much better if people could accept this.

>>52831834
> First thing that came to mind is Morthal and now that I know that the name seems fitting
Actually I think the loading screens in Skyrim say something about Morthal being named after the spirit Morihaus.
>Could you point me to your sources though
According to the book The Wild Elves,' in the Ayleid language 'Moriche' (Dark People) is used when referring to Dunmer.
I'm sure there are other things as well.

>>52836062
Except it wasn't gamelogic.

A lore book in Skyrim said Orcish armor is made from Orichalcum. In Morrowind Orcish is supposed to be made of steel as said in Orcish Armor's official description.

So it doesn't even make sense using gamelogic vs lore.

Also fuck you, my Nerevarine is a literal god by using the Soultrap glitch to hit as hard as 200 trolls, having 100% resist all elements, magic, poison, and disease, and being surrounded by a permanent shield that shits on Daedric armour.

>>52836372
Could just be a locational thing. Those eastern Orcs likely don't have access to Orichalcum.

>>52836372
>A lore book in Skyrim said Orcish armor is made from Orichalcum. In Morrowind Orcish is supposed to be made of steel as said in Orcish Armor's official description.
People should stop thinking of ES games as a strict continuity. Especially now that retcons and dumbing down are fucking everywhere.

What if Yokudan Orichalcum and Tamriellic Orichalcum isn't the same material?

>>52836897
That would be neat. With Tamriellic Orichalcum being some Iron Alloy.

But I'd prefer if the smithing and mining shit from skyrim was dropped and never referenced again.

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This is how I imagine it played out

>>52837008
Thats exactly how I see it. Why would a bunch of dumb isolated farmers and nords call something so unique in style 'steel'. I mean they're blown away by hammerfell style swords so its not a far reach to think that they may call orcish steel something similar to their name

>>52837149
>Thats exactly how I see it. Why would a bunch of dumb isolated farmers and nords call something so unique in style 'steel'. I mean they're blown away by hammerfell style swords so its not a far reach to think that they may call orcish steel something similar to their name
YOU SEE THOSE WARRIORS FROM ORSINIUM? THEY HAVE ORICHALCUM HELMETS. ORICHALCUM. HELMETS.

>>52836897
In Daggerfall, Orcish was a wee bit stronger than ebony while being twice as heavy.

It is very likely there are regional differences in Smithing. Morrowind and Eastern orcs use the light steel model, Skyrim has a green metal that the Orcs prefer to use, and in High Rock the Orcs there make very heavy but practically unrivaled armours. It would also explain how in "How Orsinium Passed to the Orcs" the Breton lord mentioned Orcish armour was very heavy, which goes against it's description in Morrowind as being lightweight, but fits the Daggerfall game as Orcish arms/armour being very heavy.

>>52837592
That's the same as saying that Iliac Bay region is many times larger than all other provinces put together.

>>52837612
.....Uhm how?

>>52837635
Just because some stuff was different between games doesn't mean it's because of the difference in setting locations.

>>52837688
>Just because some stuff was different between games doesn't mean it's because of the difference in setting locations.
But how is that saying the Iliac Bay region is bigger than all the provinces?

It's not uncommon for regions in real life to differ. Many places in Europe and Asia historically had small regional differences even though they were the same people. For example, Southeast Asia has tons of different groups that all did things differently such as smithing, these methods can be exaggerated in TES due to the magical nature of the world. Also, their orcs- a people known to be divided and spread out. It is very unlikely they all forge their armour and weapons the same way if they don't have regular contact.

And I didn't even say that it WAS the setting's location being the difference. I said it is VERY LIKELY.

>>52837765
>But how is that saying the Iliac Bay region is bigger than all the provinces?
Because of how large the world was in Daggerfall and how small it became in subsequent games. Of course, it's just a part of game design, but so are balance changes like weapon/armor stats etc. Trying to explain these discrepancies with lore gymnastics is pretty dumb if you ask me.

>>52835573
>The emperors have dragon blood not dragon souls
There is literally no difference between the two terms, you need only read the "Book of the Dragonborn" to figure this out.

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>>52837943
So your point is because I'm trying to justify why Bethesda changes the raw numbers of item stats and rewrites LORE BOOKS (hint: lore books ARE NOT GAMEPLAY), that's somehow also saying that the Iliac Bay region is bigger than all of Skyrim or Cyrodiil because of difficulties in making a map that big? You should probably realize some parts of gameplay change can be explained by lore (things like stats, the changing/shuffling of magic schools) and some can't (things like map size, why there were no beards in Oblivion, why you can't use a mortar and pestle in Skyrim, etc.)

Somehow thinking that justifying one tiny thing can somehow mean that it applies to every single instance in the game is "pretty dumb if you ask me" too.

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>>52838254
For me it's all the same - pointless autism. Elder Scrolls is a game series that experienced two major shifts in its design paradigm and there are tons of inconsistencies between different entries as a result of that.
Think of ES as a puzzle where some parts are meant to be overlayed. You can, of course, try to connect them all together with glue and thread and patches but the result would end up ooking like an abomination.
>change can be explained by lore (things like stats, the changing/shuffling of magic schools)
This shit is pure gameplay no matter what justifications you or Bethesda (if they cared) would come up with.

When did the Bosmer go through their skin change from the golden skin of the Aldmer? We know why the Dunmer's skin changed, but I can't find anything that talks about the Bosmer.

>>52835823
>>52835966
I pretty much just disregard most things in Skyrim that relate to the crafting system and all of the 'Orcish' gear in general. I remember when they were master craftsmen with an oriental influence to their armour instead of their shit looking like jagged pieces of shitty off-cut metal.

>Look for mods that try and tone down the edge of skyrim late/midgame armours
>Nothing but bikini mods everywhere

Why even live.

>>52836235
>ccording to the book The Wild Elves,' in the Ayleid language 'Moriche' (Dark People) is used when referring to Dunmer.

Thanks for pointing me towards this book. For a while now I've been wanting to get my hands on anything to do with how the Aylied interacted with the other Mer. The only thing I've really been able to find was a mention in a book on how the ancient Altmer (Aldmer?) treated/saw them as a vasal nation/state that paid them homage/tithes.

Can't remember the book it was mentioned in. Something like 'Elves in the Merethic Era' or some such.

>>52838949
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Before_the_Ages_of_Man
?

>>52838814
I used to peruse the skyrim nexus to try and get some better looking leather armor or more iron/steel variants that looked fairy realistic.

Nope. Tons of sex mods and snowflake "DEATH KNIGHT EPIC ARMOR - NOW WITH SPIKIER PAULDRONS"

I blame WOW for popularizing overexaggerated cartoonish armor. I thought the Lord of the Rings movies would make subdued and stylish armor more common. It did not, it seems.

>>52838534
This

>>52838996
Yeah that's the one.

>>52839031
> WOW for popularizing overexaggerated cartoonish armor

I don't mind that style if the themes/tone/setting support that style in a consistent manner. It worked for WoW, Overwatch, Fable:TLC and Amalur. When you try cram it into Skyrim though it does rustle my jimmies.

>>52838682
The Altmer explanation
>and others, like the Bosmer, had soiled Time's line by taking Mannish wives
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/skyrim-monomyth

>>52839625
So they basically went the opposite way of the Bretons and got MANNED?

>>52839625
>>52839757
Also wait, if they took man-wives, than they would be primarily human with slight elvish characteristics, not the other way around. Yet they're clearly still Mer as far as we can tell.

>>52839814
No, see man-wives means they took men (like males) as their wives. You really think someone like Fargoth could interest a cute girl?

>>52839625
Iirc there's another tradition that just says they were shapeshifting forest folk until Y'ffre gave them stable forms and they became Bosmer, so essentially when they turned from Ehlnofey to Bosmer having never been altmer at any point

>>52839847
Hey man, bitches get wet from that ring of healing action.

>>52839924
Yeah, maybe when the Nerevarine is wearing it. Fargoth can make anything look bad.

>>52839847
>denying Fargoth's unbeatable Bosmer magnetism

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So I'm writing up a TES campaign for my mates. Going to be placing it in the 2nd era, almost right after the start of the Interregnum. Using inspiration from the Elder Kings mod for the political landscape of Tamriel. Very factionalized and what have you. Ignoring ESO's lore for now even though it might not even get in the way. My question to you guys is...where in Tamriel should I drop my players? I'm leaning towards Cyrodiil cause I want to explore the Cyrods outside of Imperial culture but I would like some additional input.

>>52840246
Well, that's going to depend on what kind of campaign you want it to be. Is it just a sandbox?

Either way, somewhere cosmopolitan in Cyrodiil is definitely a good choice. Somewhere around the Imperial City, or in Nibenay.

>>52840246
Cyrodiil and Morrowind would make the most amount of sense. Your group could help with fighting back the Second Akaviri invasion if you want to go the lore-heavy route and introduce important characters to role-play with.

If it's just a sandbox game where they want to fuck around and become interregnum emperor, than Cyrodiil would be your best bet for that.

>>52838534
>hurr durr anything I don't like is autism
>gameplay and lore are completely disconnected hurr durr even when the gameplay is heavily intertwined
Not that anon, but kill yourself.

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>>52840326
>>52840423
It'll be sandbox for the first few sessions at least. Then I'll begin forming a narrative focused around the effects of what they're doing. There'll be a lot of pretenders that want to claim the Empire so I'm sure I can write something along those lines.

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>>52840916
>hurr durr
>hurr durr
You're quite an eloquent speaker, anon! I think I might need to reevaluate my opinions based on these impeccable points.

if bethesda set a game in hammerfell a few years after the events in skyrim, what would the factions be?

>>52830483
It's hard to beat their bonus to chromosomes.

>>52841526
Nazis (not playable of course) and Kangs (Crowns and Forebears were actually always a single faction).

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>>52836062
By embracing the power of Bretonach.

In all reality, I normally play as Bretonach, a Bosmer thief, and maybe a Nord or Redguard warrior. I really only play Dunmer for roleplaying, I'm more in love with them than how they play.

Honestly, If I could go to Tamriel as just a random non-hero, Telvanni Wizard sounds amazing.

>>52839757
No, they took mannish wives.

>>52841811
>If I could go to Tamriel as just a random non-hero
I'd be a moth priest
Just neet in the white gold tower reading elder scrolls all day and getting into autistic arguments with my fellow kissless virgin blind neet brethren

>>52839814
>Be elf
>Frolicking in woods, fucking bitches.
>Mannish wife has human babby
>Human babby has Elf husband
>Generations with only select hand full of humans.
>>Every male who can have multiple kids has an elf child, every female who can only have one or two kids has human.
>Eventually only elves.

That's just the most logical way I can think of it.

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>>52841864
>Not getting into autistic arguments over magic that end with fucking wizard duels.
>Not living for long periods of time and being a wizard without dealing with Altmeri bullshit
>Not spraying some bug musk, and scoring some moon sugar.
>Not secretly worshiping the Velothi faith and and freeing what slaves you can.

I respect your opinion, though. Cyrodiil in lore sounds pretty comfy.

>>52839814
>>52841952
The whole inheriting the mother's race thing is just retarded and should be played little mind.

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What's the lore behind how Bretons went from being normal in Daggerfall, to autistic shrill nerds in Morrowind, then back to normal in the other games?

>>52842194
I think this racial phylogeny thing is great and fits very well into the "Cuck Anu" theory.

>>52842239
>autistic shrill nerds
Elaborate.

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>>52842276
>the "Cuck Anu" theory.

>>52842321
What, you've never read "The Monomyth"?

>>52842352
>The Monomyth
Fuck, I meant The Anuad, sorry. I always mix up these two.

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>>52842291
Their shrill as fuck voices and general features.

In the other games and in lore, they seem to be of varying heights, weights, and have normal voices. Some could even be considered fairly masculine. In Morrowind it sound like someone's clenching their nuts every time they talk, and act at best like David Mitchell, at worst either a sodden drunken wretch or the autist with an airship.

>>52842276
Can't tell if Anu or Padomay got Nir pregnant if the child's going to be the mother's race?

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>>52842475
>they seem to be of varying heights, weights
Sadly, can't have these in Morrowind. Every race has a fixed height and weight multipliers.
>In Morrowind it sound like someone's clenching their nuts every time they talk
I admit they sometimes sound a bit strange but it's really not that bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4hqL5pmQsc

>>52842276
>>52842352
>>52842466
This doesn't seem to be more than a myth to explain creation in a simplistic way. I doubt that the gods even have sex considering they're mostly formless plane(t)s who oppose each other for purposes beyond comprehension.

>>52842546
The idea is that the narrative of Anuad is warped by Anu being in denial. In his world, Anu got NTRd so hard he had to escape it and dream up a new one.

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>>52842583
>I think that tavern girl was looking at me. How can I tell her I'm... Not interested.
Straight up thuggin'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drlv_idkOUs

>>52843140
>Old Ebonheart suddenly being Imperial
I will never understand Tamriel Rebuilt.

>>52843171
Because Ebonheart was imperial.

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>>52843177
Vvardenfell Ebonheart != Old Ebonheart.
Lore-wise, OE has much, much more connections to Hlaalu and Ra'athim in particular.

>>52819933
I wonder if she can salvage the souls from that or the go to the Cairn.

>>52821479
I tend to use the same explanation as the entire province being a ten minute jog. They can't show all of the setting accurately.

>>52829691
Nobody gets a three day one board ban.

>>52834837
>>52834942
Herma=Man (Or possibly person?) Hermaeus= Knowledge that divides men and mer from beasts?

>>52843652
That's a straight-up lie, source; personal experience.

>>52844088
Well the old /tg/ nazimod favored full site bans and I don't think I've been banned since.

>>52844088
Yeah I've been banned on /tv/ for 3 days like 4 times this year
Does that say something about me?

>>52842075
>freeing what slaves you can.
Eww

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>>52844653
I don't actually support slavery in real life...

>>52844786
How will you know if you like it if you haven't even tried it

>>52839847
>>52839961

Yo. Wheels of Lull is broken. In the final quest in The Cave enter the Aka Derivative instantaneously kills me. Since I'm on XBox my options are limited fixes wise, but I put a cheat ring on (I use it for bug fixing in instances like this) which slowed time and it looked like I was falling through a stone bridge into the lava, which my Protective Pack didn't save me from

Can't finish the quest, pls fix

>>52843706
Like it means sapience of some kind? Cause that might just work. When men see sapience, they see something thats equal to them (herma=man); when mer see sapience, they see what sparetes them form the rest of the animals (hermaeus=knowledge).
It kinda ties in with the dichotomic views of men and mer nicely.

>>52844890
Get the security pack

>>52844875
I haven't tried slicing my dick open, but I'm pretty sure I don't like it. For the same reasons, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like slavery due to the basic principals behind it.

>>52844920
I do.

I don't get sent back to the beginning of the zone, I fucking die

>>52845096
Temporarily download a cheat mod then, use it to TGM/TCL out.

Which character in TES is most like Todd Howard?

>>52846508

the guy from the start of oblivion who taunts you about how youll die in the cell

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>>52846508
The Breton from the Oblivion manual.

>>52846607
>Breton Gangsta

>>52842239

the red mountain ash is magical and reshapes your lungs as you breathe it. in vvardenfell ash is everywhere to some extent. dagoth urs magic is slow and subtle, but corrupts everything it touches with time.

dark elves have been there the longest and its why they all sound like theyve been smoking five packs a day from cradle to grave.

khajiit and argonians are mostly slaved so they have been there long enough for it to start changing them but not long enough for it to be dramatic.

humans however have only been there for the five-ish years vvardenfell has been open for imperial settlement, so the ash-magic has not taken root.

the bodies of bretons have innate resistance to magic, and wood elves who resist disease try to reject the enchantments. this does not come without consequences. it strains and damages the lungs and vocal chords in trying to expel the magic, wounding them and causing their voices to be made high pitched and nasally.

>>52845492
On console?

>>52846997
Hence why I said a cheat mod

So one of the perks of being Arch-Curate is being able to make prophecies right?

>>52846716
>thatsbullshitbutibelieveit.jpg

>>52842583
Like a cross between Oswald Fiddlebender and The Crestfallen Warrior.

>>52846508
Jyggalag

>>52845492
>>52846997
>>52847465
>>52845096
>>52844920
>>52844890
Nice lore!

>>52850349
The best there is.

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>mfw this whole thread
This proves TES-Generals would be less shit if we actually started banning people with referrals from reddit.

>>52850356
?
>>52846716
I like that theory, is it based on anything?

>>52844786
Slaves are not people, slavery is fine

Do you think the Nerevarine found a snek gf out there in Akavir

>>52850405
Is there any good mod for making slaves behave properly in Morrowind?

MK has certainly developed a lot of interesting ideas and shaped a lot of TES metaphysics and worldbuilding, but some of his writings are obscurantist shit.

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>>52822951
>Todd going "hey, put that in Redguard."
So it's Todd who we have to thank for the great lore.

>>52851972
Why is he so perfect?

>>52851972
Uh, you don't get to bring mods.

So what evidence is there that Talos and Vivec actually managed to even achieve the 5th walking way?
Knowing the word doesn't mean the meaning is fully divulged to them, the lots of mentions of love are pretty damn important I guess
What actually is there though?

>>52852711
For Talos it's mostly Heimskr's speech.
Aside from many accounts in his own writings, Vivec held Baar Dau in the air after losing his divine power (up to the Oblivion crisis).

>>52853052
What other CHIMesque feats were done by Vivec?

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>>52853794
I don't know of anything else which he had to use CHIM for that's described outside of the Sermons. In the Sermons/out of game texts, there is:
Creating an alternative timeline where the Tribunal were gods from the beginning.
Travelling to a previous kalpa.
Travelling to the "edge of the universe" to see the Tower and the Wheel.
Mutually abusive relationship with Molag Bal.
Banishing Azura during Vivec's trial.

>>52854117
The alternate timeline thing does sound like CHIM fuckery

>>52850356
>implying /v/ and /vg/ aren't the real issues

Where does the Dreamsleeve fit into the mortal afterlife? Do only certain people go there? I would think that if you were a priest of the Divines, for example, your soul would go to Aetherius, under condition that you remained faithful. But if your soul is bound by prophecy like Nerevar's, you'd enter the Dreamsleeve.

>>52856653
I think most souls go to the dreamsleeve, to be recycled.

>>52856653
There are souls of dead Stormcloak and Imperial soldiers in Sovngarde, which is a realm of Aetherius.

>>52858993
So are the Far Shores, aren't they?

>>52859193
>>52858993
>>52858309
>>52856653

I thought the dreamsleeve and Aetherius were pretty much the same thing?

Honestly it's one of the reason I would hardcore dedicate myself to one of the Deadric Princes. Gotta insure that eternal afterlife yo.

>>52859622
>Being a the bitch of some bitch god
>Not mantling lorkhan
Fag

>>52859193
Ye