OSR General /osrg/

>What brought you to OSR?
I was disillusioned by the slow-moving storygames I was playing and found that OSR was the most interesting thing around. And then I started appreciating the design of old school D&D.

>>53058029
what IS OSR?

Continuing on the subject of saving throws.

>>53057999
In short words, the saving throw categories make no sense and often contradict themselves, even in the same book.

Examples from our conversation so far:
Save vs death is said to be against losing a fight, petrification against being gimped. The former can be cured with a fifth level spell, the latter with sixth. I was told the latter is a longer term issue... but being killed or turned to stone is going to get you out of the present situation just as surely, and if the battle is lost, no one is going to be there to ever turn you back to flesh anyway.
Save vs breath weapon is made against unavoidable large area damage (such as dragon's breath), while save vs spell is as you say it to resist magic, and as I understand it to deal with whatever doesn't fit in the other categories. Yet Fireball, despite being a blast you can at most resist halfway, is a save against spell. The best explanation I've gotten are that it's just written that way, or that it's a leftover from when breath weapon was just against dragon's breath.

Then, apparently because you have no other answers to give, you implore me to change it myself. I could, but I wonder what made them come up with such a weird and self-contradictory way of dealing with this stuff to begin with, and why they couldn't manage something better even then - it even carried on to the 2nd edition and most of the retroclones!
Further muddling the issue is the claim that I shouldn't change it, lest I break something I don't understand. As you see I'm trying my best to, yet fail.

Can you shed light on the matter?

>>53058134
It's a bunch of people fascinated with old-school D&D, and often apply their own ideals to it and discuss stuff you can do with it.

>>53058029
>What brought you to OSR?
The interesting and creative adventures/settings/etc and the simplicity of B/X

>>53058162
K. Why not use a better designed system though?

>>53058029
I never left. I've been playing OD&D/AD&D/Traveller/etc for decades years

>>53058158
Read a blog post on this recently ('don't split up?'. 'sae the party?' Something like that) and a designer argued
Save vs-
Death = shit that you SHOULD NOT EVER be able to live through, like being disintegrated or drinking a dose of fatal poison, etc. This is like how in the slasher movies Jason always lives.

Petrification/Polymorph = things that change your nature without actually killing you. It represents control over your bodily integrity

Breath Weapon = large area damage that is so big/fast/etc. you effectively can't dive out of the way and just have to gut it out

Rod/Staff/Wand = and device or effect that isn't under Death or Polymorph and it reflects you getting out of the way of the beam of the attack, so you use it for laser pistols, too.

Spell = actually disrupting a spell, in a way. When you save vs a Charm you shrug off the charm, sure. But when you save vs. a Fireball unlike a breath weapon this can reflect you dampening the spell's effect on you, a sort of innate counter-casting.

I thought it was an interesting take

>>53058228
>better designed system
AD&D is still a top seller online 2 generations after it was first introduced. The OSR is chock full of minor variations on the original few versions of D&D and THEY sell well/are used more than a lot of contemporary games.
That seems to be more than good enough design, doesn't it?

>>53054553
You realize that there is a vocal group of spelljammer lovers in here right?

>>53058158
So first of all, I don't know what edition you're using, or if you're talking about the saving throw in all old school editions of D&D. I think you mentioned 2e earlier, and I admit that I'm not used to that system. I can imagine that most of these things are very similar in all editions though. Still, there might be some discrepancy.

>Save vs death is said to be against losing a fight, petrification against being gimped. The former can be cured with a fifth level spell, the latter with sixth. I was told the latter is a longer term issue... but being killed or turned to stone is going to get you out of the present situation just as surely, and if the battle is lost, no one is going to be there to ever turn you back to flesh anyway.
I believe the spells you're talking about are Raise Dead and... Actually, which sixth level spell cures petrification? Animate object? You'll have to tell me which one that is. Anyway, it is worth noting that Raise Dead actually doesn't resurrects the character, but instead keeps him alive for as many days as the cleric has levels. The character also loses ability score for each time he's raised and can only be raised a certain number of times. It's not really a permanent solution to the problem of death.

Too long, I'll have to split this post up.
1/?

>>53058324
The spell is Stone to Flesh
Raise Dead costs you a point of constitution (permanently); there is a hard limit to the number of times you can be Raised; there is always a chance, sometimes high, that Raise will fail.
Stone to Flesh just fixes you with a relatively low chance of side effects or death as an option.

>>53058324
>Raise Dead actually doesn't resurrects the character, but instead keeps him alive for as many days as the cleric has levels
This isn't true in OD&D/AD&D 1e/AD&D 2e: in those, you just lose a point of constitution if you make your System Shock

>>53058324
>Save vs breath weapon is made against unavoidable large area damage (such as dragon's breath), while save vs spell is as you say it to resist magic, and as I understand it to deal with whatever doesn't fit in the other categories. Yet Fireball, despite being a blast you can at most resist halfway, is a save against spell. The best explanation I've gotten are that it's just written that way, or that it's a leftover from when breath weapon was just against dragon's breath.
It's an interesting detail, and it might just be a leftover like you said. Then again, save vs. spell is generally a more difficult roll than save vs. breath weapon, and this is a spell that is intended to be used by the player. A dragon's breath generally does an astounding amount of damage, equal to its hit points. Saving against that attack was very important to have a chance to defeat the dragon. Fireball can also do a bunch of damage, but it's not as fixed and as massive as a dragon's breath. The developers might have thought that saving against a fireball should be more difficult because the attack, while similar, doesn't have the same function as the dragon attack.

>Then, apparently because you have no other answers to give, you implore me to change it myself. I could, but I wonder what made them come up with such a weird and self-contradictory way of dealing with this stuff to begin with, and why they couldn't manage something better even then - it even carried on to the 2nd edition and most of the retroclones!
Further muddling the issue is the claim that I shouldn't change it, lest I break something I don't understand. As you see I'm trying my best to, yet fail.
I think what people were saying was that, while you might think that it's nonsensical, there might in fact be some sense to the whole thing. At the same time, OSR is all about changing stuff and there are clearly people here that just love changing things because it just feels better to them to do things a certain way.

>>53058358
I see, for some reason I couldn't find it in the player's handbook until I searched for it. And yeah, I kind of imagined that spell to work that way.

>>53058380
I was looking at the 2e spell, but you're right about the 1e spell. I guess they changed it because they felt it was too unforgiving, or something.

>>53058460
You may be misreading the 2e spell, as well. The 'one day per level of the cleric' limit is NOT "how long they are alive after the spell" it is 'the maximum length they can have been dead *before* the spell'. In both cases the spell is permanent, meaning you are just alive.

>>53058380
I'm fairly sure the CON loss is automatic.

>>53058256
>Rod/Staff/Wand = and device or effect that isn't under Death or Polymorph and it reflects you getting out of the way of the beam of the attack, so you use it for laser pistols, too.
That seems plain wrong. It should be similar to spells, but since the spell comes from a wand it is "weakened". Since people can find a wand and just walk around blasting everyone with it, they made it a bit easier to avoid than normal spells.

>>53058521
At the same time, you need to save versus wands when a flind tries to knock your weapon off with a fantasy nunchuck.

How's that a weakened spell?

>>53058504
Shit, you're right, I did misread it. Thanks for pointing it out.

>>53058511
It is. If you fail your system shock you stay dead. Forever.

>>53058556
No, that would be resurrection survival.

>>53058521
>>53058546
If you look at some of the older adventures where you ran into things like killbots and aliens ray guns had a 'save vs. wands' mechanic.

>>53058547
I have to get some value out of playing the game since the 70's

>>53058546
Notice that it's "as against wands". The developers probably thought that the vs. wands probability was around the same as what they wanted to have when attacked by a flind, so they just used that.

>>53058584
How old? Is it temple of the frog? Wasn't the thing with that game that magic is just incredibly advanced technology, making ray guns a wand?

>>53058584
Why wouldn't the ray guns just have the shooter make an attack roll, like with bows and arrows and shit?

>>53058228
>K. Why not use a better designed system though?
D&D isn't perfect, but you're not going to get everybody to agree on which direction you need to move in to improve it. Also, if you're only familiar with new school D&D, you might be making certain assumptions about what D&D is that aren't necessarily true. (And even if you're familiar with AD&D, you may be making assumptions about Basic and OD&D.)

There are certainly things I'd like to change about old school, but working with a light system like Moldvay/Cook Basic, it's really easy to tweak things without unforeseen or unintended consequences. And I can talk about those tweaks with other people here, because they already understand the context. I don't have to explain the entire game to people for them to be able to see where I'm coming from. Old school D&D is a lingua franca that allows me to communicate with a large number of other people. And OD&D, AD&D, and Basic all operate on the same core system, so even an exclusively AD&D guy is probably going to have a pretty understanding about the tweak to/problem with Basic I'm making/having.

I'd also add that a lot of the problems people have with D&D seem to come from trying to use D&D for something it wasn't designed for. D&D is actually a rather niche game, and functions a lot less well outside of its proper context.

>>53058570
Frack. I mentioned system shock about petrification and kept using it. My error

>>53058654
It should all just be one score anyway, seeing as most of the time they're exactly 5 percentiles apart (until you get to 90% and the increments reduce to keep from slamming into the ceiling). It's unnecessary clutter to have two different scores when they're that close to being the same. I like the added options AD&D has over Basic, but the amount of unnecessary bullshit is ridiculous.

>>53058778
I've sometimes thought that vs. rods and vs. dragon breath could be removed and moved into another saving throw, since that would make the numbers be a bit more further apart.

>>53058228

One of the interesting discovers the OSR has made is that "design" isn't always a good thing.

Just look at 3e: it was "designed" around a "core mechanic", ostensibly so that it would be easier to grok. One rule to rule them all, a single d20 + modifier vs. target number mechanic to handle *everything*. And in spite of that, the system is a total shitshow, full of unintended consequences, some of which (like the way saving throws work in 3e) just plain break the game off the shelf. All because of the need to serve a top-down design paradigm.

OD&D wasn't so much "designed" as "grown". The process was more organic. They started with the idea of single-man units/figurines exploring a dungeon, played until they needed a rule for something, made up and canonized the rule, and kept going until there was a game. Certainly that was the case with Arneson's Blackmoor campaign, and then Gygax carried the process further in creating Greyhawk and OD&D.

The resulting game isn't full of unintended consequences because it was made by working backwards from a consequence to a mechanic. It just werks.

And even a little bit later, with Tunnels & Trolls and AD&D, you can see how starting from an armchair design principle first can really bungle things up.

>>53058895
>Just look at 3e: it was "designed" around a "core mechanic", ostensibly so that it would be easier to grok.
I don't actually think there's anything wrong with the core mechanic, itself. It's just that they fucked up everything they stacked on top of it. You could, for instance, express the OSR systems relatively accurately using the unified mechanic. Sure, there might be some rounding involved (2 out of 6 is 33.33% and the closest you can come to that on a d20 is 35%), but that's nothing major. I do agree with you about the unintended consequences though. They obviously didn't fully appreciate the ramifications of the changes they were making, and why things were the way they were.

>>53058841
Yeah, old school saves could stand to be pared down.

>>53059020
I'm just doing "save vs magic" and "save vs non-magic" now. Less book keeping

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>>53058029
I don't even remember although I'm sure looking at WOTC's Old Edition Archive almost a decade ago certainly helped. I know it's why I like Maztica and Raveloft.

>>53058134
Some people will say it's an examination of the roots of the hobby and an appreciation of Old-School games but in practice it mostly AD&D 1e wankery (most of the internet) or B/X wankery (here). And for a lot of people it's a huge cashcow (cf. that guy who made five different versions of basic that he sells for $10 each).

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I made this map for OD&D wilderness using the tables from delving deeper -- but the stocking tables suck. Help me fill it with gameable weirdness.

>>53058778
I know plenty of people that either use the higher one or ignore it.
Remember Rule Zero!

>>53059575
So a save vs. death is just as likely to fail as a save vs. dragon breath in your game?

>>53059682
That is an incredibly fun map.

>>53058895
having different mechanics for different things = no biggie, to me. Especially since there aren't that many mechanics

>>53059682
What do you want us to stock? Wilderness encounters? Or do you want us to name and describe the numbered structures?

>>53058029
I started playing in '77. I've been running games since '79.
I have played and/or run over 40 different game systems.
Here is the only *real* difference I see between Old School and New.
-Describe the place; describe the situation, and ask 'what do you do?'
>Old School Player tells me what his character does
>New School Player looks at his character sheet to see what he can do
It is a completely different mindset. I see young players writing things like
>"In AD&D onc your first level wizard cast his one spell a day there was literally nothing else for him to do, no mechanics for any other action"
Where an old school player thinks like this
>"My mage has 3 flasks of oil with wicks, 12 darts, chalk, 4 doorstops, a jar of jelly, a jar of bacon grease, and 3 iron spikes. I might not need my spell!"

>>53059812
Yeah I feel the same way. Like there's so much focus on making classes awesome but then players don't even bother buying a bunch of cool stuff for their character. Also, it's nice to see that actual grognards hang out around here.

>>53059800
The latter, but if you wanna do random encounters go ahead.

>>53059715
ty. I've been doing lots of these, some fairly big (20x40 or so) I might post more later on

>>53059682
Number 1 is an ancient engineering project, a device intended to purify the river water poisoned by the fallout of magical warfare upstream. These days it just sits, slowly rotating and looking like an imposing and baroque piece of industrialized fortification.

It is inhabited by a species of rat-people who call it 'the pin on which the world turns' and protect it from outsiders with a religious reverence that involves kidnapping and blood sacrifice. There are rumors of a vault deep within where the remains and personal effects of these sacrifices are piled high. Bounties would be paid by the surviving relatives of victims for confirmation of what happened to their loved ones. Plothooks attached to other areas might also be found within the moldering stacks.

>>53058895
I wouldnt say that 3e's problems stem from its core mechanic, its actually UNDER designed from a philosophy perspective.

>>53058158
>but being killed or turned to stone is going to get you out of the present situation just as surely, and if the battle is lost, no one is going to be there to ever turn you back to flesh anyway.
If everyone else dies while you're paralyzed, what do you put your chances at surviving until the paralysis wears off?

>Save vs breath weapon is made against unavoidable large area damage (such as dragon's breath),
Unavoidable damage in general... which is, mostly, large area attacks.

>The best explanation I've gotten are that it's just written that way, or that it's a leftover from when breath weapon was just against dragon's breath.
And that's the best explanation you'll get. The earlier books were never well edited, and the latter books were made by different people.

>but I wonder what made them come up with such a weird and self-contradictory way of dealing with this stuff to begin with,
Most of the rules either go back to Arnerson's contrivances, or were adapted from rulings Gygax kept having to repeatedly make.
Not sure which one the saves are from, but I would guess the latter.

>Further muddling the issue is the claim that I shouldn't change it, lest I break something I don't understand.
That Chesterton's Fence guy was talking out of his ass.
Chesteron's Fence is about accidentally breaking /other/ things by changing something. Changing saves will, at worst, break saves.

>>53059904
Alright then.

>>53059682
#2 is The Tungsten Tower Over the Magma. Heated gnomes have set up an observatory at the top. They find and eat photons of far away stars. They know the movements of all lower celestial beings. They will tell you what the weather will be for all of the next month, if you help them find more tomes of forbidden astronomy.
A rocktitan keeps the tower from slowly sinking, but he has been put to sleep by imps who wish to have the tower sink down to their underground lavacave. If someone awakens the lavatitan and deals with the imps, the gnomes will reward them with a long-lasting lantern of starlight.

>>53058029
>What brought you to OSR?
My parents owning AD&D 1e and 2e (and Mentzer Basic, but I never read that).

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>>53059682
>>53059904
#5 is a barrow of an ancient king and his royal household who were entombed alive. He is now a king-wight and they are now wights. They spend their days in imitation of their living day feasting on fantastic roasts, drinking barrels of wine, and watching dancing-girls (also wight) in their luxurious tomb.

If someone points out that they have now way to get wine or fresh meat since they stay in the barrow all the time, or that all the furniture and tapestries should be rotted by now then all food and wine suddenly turn to dust and the decorations seem to age 1000 years in an instant. The wights will be infuriated and attempt to kill whomever pointed this out.

Those who behave themselves might catch tidbits about the inhabitants of areas #6, #7, and #8 and clues to ancient dungeons and history.

http://www.lomion.de/cmm/wighking.php

>>53059812
do you think that change of mindset was because of the simplification brought by cRPG's?

i would like to know your opinion because if you're playing since '77 you sure saw first-hand how D&D was translated to rogue and all his offspring.

In fact, from video games perspective i would say that roguelikes and dungeon crawlers are the digital OSR.

>>53060052
>The earlier books were never well edited
I disagree. I see more spelling and grammar errors in contemporary works, for example, and this is post spellcheck.
In reality, they left it up to you to explain or change.

>>53060477
When the first computer RPGs hit the collective response from TRPGers was
>'FRACK! If it isn't coded I can't do it. THIS SUCKS!'
and I think now people that grew up on them think
>'if it is not explicitly defined in the rules, I can't do it - let's try to define EVERYTHING!'
Which is impossible.
dungeon crawlers are close, but they're still like a badly translated dating sim compared to, you know, actually interacting with girls.

>>53060478
>In reality, they left it up to you to explain or change.
No, in reality they left it up to the guy who'd brought you into the hobby to explain. OD&D traveled more by word of mouth than anything else.

>>53060530
>'FRACK! If it isn't coded I can't do it. THIS SUCKS!'

so it began Toady's Quest.

OSR blogs poll, URLs taken from the Pastebin:

https://www.strawpoll.me/12856929 (1/2)
https://www.strawpoll.me/12856933 (2/2)

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>>53060319
>>53059682
#8 is an ancient burial complex of frost giants who live far to the north of #2. The stone entrance is magically sealed with ice 100 effective hitpoints that can only be damaged by magical fire; the seal "regenerates" 1 hp per hour. The complex contains four levels of burial niches, each containing about 30 frost giant corpses of various ages and appropriate treasure (although any food that was buried within has rotted). The interior of the complex is as cold as an average winter.

The reason this burial complex is so far away is to prevent dead spirits from returning to wreak vengeance. In fact, the complex contains two such creatures, both dreadful undead called frostmourns (cf. Dragon 254; undead frost giants that radiate extreme cold and can turn into snow and ice). 10d60 minutes after the ice seal is broken, one of the frostmourns will rise form its torpor; Roll 1d6 and on a odd roll it will be the frostmourn on level 2 of the complex, on an even roll it will be on the one level 4.
If it is closer to the PCs than the entrance it will attack the party ; otherwise it will exit the tomb to wreak havoc, eventually trying to reach its living kin. 2d10 minutes after the first frostmourn awakens the remaining one also awakens.

To add more color to the encounter, the frostmourn on level 2 is an elderly balding male named Ragnar and the frostmourn on level 4 is a middle-aged female named Hallgrid.

>>53059682
Hey anon, are the dark-red parts of your map forests or something else that isn't lava? Because if that's the case, I'll have to change my description at >>53060106

>>53060542
Yeah. I know. I was there.

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WIP of my first ever hexmap, done with Renegade Crowns. It's okay I guess, but I'm probably going to go back and replace some of the copius scrubland with something else.

>What brought you to OSR?
Despite barely any experience in rpgs ( only been aware of the hobby since 5th edition ) I quickly became disillusioned with the game design. I want something closer to Rogue than Skyrim.
I haven't actually played any OSR either, but I like the elegance of the rules and am waiting for a desperate DM to post a game
Meanwhile I'm the shittiest of shitters and trying to write my own OSR despite zero play experience with any of the systems, and scarcely any better from reading some.

>>53059714
Better some ease of bookkeeping than a 5% difference in the odds.

Maybe you could assign some individual penalties, like a -1 to show how much harder that Finger of Death is to save against.

>>53061078
>5% difference between save vs. death and save vs. breath weapon
It's more like a 15-25% difference. That's significant.

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>>53060939
Looks good to me so far. How hard was it to generate that using Renegade Crowns? Time it took?

Personally I always just eyeball it, like pic related.

>>53061185
Just a few hours so far. It's pretty easy since the actual major map generation is just 2 tables. Honestly I think yours looks way more interesting; mine is mostly just huge stretches of boring grasslands. I'm gonna try again with a smaller map once this is done.

>>53060726
They are forests, but your entry is cool - you didn't say how DEEP the tower goes. Or maybe it has like a lava moat, (draw)bridges over lava are fun.

>>53060939
Try DMG page 173 if you want something lighter/faster than Renegade Crowns.

>>53058029
A love for all things d&d brought me to osr. Plus I'm old. Huzzah!

>>53058029
>What brought you to OSR?
Pretty new to it, but it was the batman/hero over superman/superhero dichotomy that sold me. Somehow getting a slightly above-average joe (not much different from myself) to riches, fame and fortune through wit, luck and elbow grease, is incredibly cool and fulfilling.

>>53061260
Alright, I guess it still sort of works. I guess the tower can be on some sort of boiling, hard bog with a lavacave underneath.

>>53061260
Trade out that 3-tile forest for a lava lake.

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>>53061260
RC is working out fair enough at the moment, I just gotta tweak some stuff later so it's not just african bushland as far as the eye can see.

>>53061668
Just play https://sinenominepublishing.com/collections/spears-of-the-dawn

Would you introduc enon magical high tech civilizations into Spelljammer?

>>53062679
Sure, there's spheres like that. Spheres with no magic, only the truly powerful artifacts (and spelljammer helms) function in such places.

>>53062856
>(and spelljammer helms)
I thought Spelljamming Helms didn't work in Penumbra?

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On the subject of maps made semi-randomly with Renegade Crowns, I've been looking into this one a little more now and I feel like I could add some more flavor to the big patch of mountains covering nearly all of the eastern half.

Any thoughts? Anything that could fit in there and look good?

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>>53063125

>>53063071
They are powerful items that often ignore local rules. From what I've read of going to other 0-magic spheres, the helms still work.. and are likely all that works. It's designed that way so you can get in and out. Perhaps there are spheres where even that doesn't work, but then you're fucked because you are in the middle of space with a rapidly fading air-envelope and no way to move. Wouldn't be any stories about that sort of sphere, because you'd just die.

>>53063071
Pretty sure the helm "works", but the MUs don't have spells to lemon-press juice out of.
So actual travel requires series helms or lifejammers or orbi or whatever.

>>53063569
I think you still have spells, they just serve NO purpose save as motivating force for the helm in such a sphere.

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>>53063125
You can never go wrong with more swamps and forests IMO. Maybe some steppes.

Anyways, I'm almost done with the terrain.

>>53063673
Isn't it a bit too north for swamps, though? You notice the glacier right on top.

(Each hex is three miles.)

>>53063726
>(Each hex is three miles.)
for what purpose.png

>>53063791
Explain further. What's wrong with three-mile hexes?

>>53063726
I'd figure all that glacial runoff has to go somewhere. So in the summer months you'd get cold muck marshland that would freeze over in the winter.

>>53063847
That makes sense.

>What brought you to OSR?

As a general trend, I've always had a habit of digging backwards into older, more obscure stuff in any hobby, because I'm always interested in returning to the roots, seeing how things used to be, and DIY etc.

Ultimately it was a huge mess of reasons that all culminated in me showing up to /osrg/ with a first impression of "holy shit, I'm home."

I started with 3.5 way back when, played, hell, like a decade or so of 3.5, PF, 4e, 5e, lived through the 3.X vs 4e edition wars on /tg/. With either system, the more I tried to change how, say, magic or gods worked in the setting, the more constrained I felt by the system.

It started as an interest in 2e AD&D with a book I found at a thrift shop and Planescape. Then I found out about LotFP, started reading Jason Thompsons adventure walkthrough comics (white plume mountain, god that crawls, etc.). Those made me curious as to how older mechanics worked, as well as reading through modules like God that Crawls and Death Frost Doom which I thought were fucking cool.

One thing led to another, I found OSR general. Hexcrawls, DIY D&D, Weird Style, simulationism, over the top and pulp fantasy that sounds like it was written by a 70s metal band, as one anon last thread put it, van-airbrush wizard aesthetic fantasy - all this shit was like a breath of a fresh air to me. I'm fucking reveling in it.

I'm still working on figuring everything out but holy damn I feel like a kid in a candy shop.

>What brought you to OSR?
Bought Death Frost Doom and Fuck for Satan on a whim. I started to look around the lotfp and LL books and found alot to like.

What's a nice small essentials-town I can use for a 10-15 min prelude before a dungeon crawl? Mostly just to ease in the session, and to give opportunities for some rumor rolls by roleplay and walking to places in the town (talk to blacksmith, talk in tavern, talk down in the harbor etc.)

>>53065187
Raging Swan Press has done a whole bunch of Village Backdrops: they're for Pathfinder, but converting them to an OSR system of your choice is pretty trivial.

>>53065187
Village of Hommlet, from the module of the same name.
City State of the Invincible Overlord, if you want something a bit bigger.

>>53065248
>Village of Hommlet

How much do you need to do to remove the Temple of Elemental Evil leanings and tie it up to a plot of your choice? Just ditch or replace the cult from the lower level, or is there more?

>>53065218
I like that term for it, that describes pretty much what I was going for. Thanks!

>>53065267
If you miss a hook, you can always repurpose it once the PCs bite.

>>53065324
I mean, what should the hook be to begin with? I'm not really interested to do Temple of Elemental Evil: it's nowhere near as good or fun as Hommlet is.

I have a few pieces of content I want to post and share, but I have two conflicting beliefs that I want to get some input on. Part of me gets frustraded when an anon posts something cool but it's not in a fixed location (such as a blog) that i can return to and see more work from that person if they happen to make more. However there's another part of me that wants to share without the pressure/commitment/expectation that I actually will make more content. Like what's the point of posting something to a blog if it's the only thing on there?

>>53066236
Post the first couple things only here, then if it turns out you love doing this stuff and it only feeds your creativity, put up a blog.

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>when you're writing up encounters tables for the sun and moon

I might be going too far in some places.

>>53066581
Ain't nothing wrong about encounters on the moon. Moon adventures are great.

Sun is just a small chunk of the Elemental Plane of Radiance. Also adventure-worthy for higher levels.

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https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/05/osr-minor-angels.html

More weird angels!

Do you guys think that defined classes/feats like in newer editions make the role playing aspect of the game stagnate?

would free form magic/characters work with OSR?

>>53067621
>Do you guys think that defined classes/feats like in newer editions make the role playing aspect of the game stagnate?

To an extent, yes. More class abilities and feats means more mechanically defined characters, which in turn leads to less improvisation and player skill - therefore less roleplay, more rollplay.

>would free form magic/characters work with OSR?

By the above token, yes, possibly. But it'd be a lot of work.

>>53067621
No, rolling too many dice in a session stagnates the roleplay.

Yes but, as with anywhere, not very well.

>>53067650
>>53067656
Or more than free form, a classles OSR, like you chose your abilities hit dice, spells and all that

in that matter , is there a spell builder for osr?

>>53067473
So are these the rejects from you Entity brainstorming, or what exactly?
Also, where are the not!Cherubim Angels that are living creatures?

>>53067710
>is there a spell builder for osr?
No, but if there were it would be too constraining.

Write whatever you'd like.
Adjust numbers (including level) until it feels right.
If you fuck that up, talk to your players and retcon the numbers.

>>53067710
The closest I can think of is Abominable Fancy's Boring Spells, but that's more meant to make variant spellcasters.

>>53067621
>Do you guys think that defined classes/feats like in newer editions make the role playing aspect of the game stagnate?

Yes in fact it ties into the OP's question of what brought me to OSR and it's a simple answer. The barebones of it all from the player's side lured me in and kept me here. There's just something that removes the roleplay from encounters when players have everything laid out before them of what they are exactly capable of. If they know for instance that they can move/attack/perform 'x' maneuvers in combat because the player's handbook tells them so - and doesn't list anything else, they will arguably never try to do anything else. I've seen it hundreds of times, the linear bookthinking prevalent in 3.PF and 5e. I want them to think organically, and when mechanics get in the way of that it needs to be trashed. Defined mechanics definitely lead to stagnant roleplaying and poor gameplay.

>>53067621
>Do you guys think that defined classes/feats like in newer editions make the role playing aspect of the game stagnate?
Kind of, but I notice that roleplaying becomes easier for a some players if they get to spend 5+ hours making a character. Some players just need to define everything about their character mechanically, and that becomes a problem if they're ever playing an OSR game.
I have a player in my group who loves the concept of 3e character building, and he always seems to crave the idea of customizing a character in astounding detail. It's getting to the point where I feel the need to run a game of 3e just to show how shit it is.

>>53058029
>What brought you to OSR?
for me it was originally Mazes & Minotaurs, so technically before the OSR was even a thing

>>53067621
honestly I don't mind options "hampering roleplay" but then in pretty much every game I've ever participated in, not a single person(myself included) is actually capable of roleplay in any significant manner(indeed at this point part of me thinks true roleplaying is a myth), so quite honestly I couldn't give a flying fudge about the "Roleplay not Roll-Play" aspects to the OSR

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Has anybody got this yet or been to the seminar?

It sounds really neat.

>>53068287
By "roleplay" we don't (usually) mean "acting is character."
It's shorthand for "describing action and receiving arbitration."

>>53068474
Is it out already? I might get a copy, but I'm also having trouble imagining what they have to say that hasn't already been said.

>>53068544
It's out in pdf now. Saw it on the story for 6 dollars but I'm not sure about it yet.

>>53067829
Yeah when my players only option was i attack, they had to improvise everything, i remember some dude using his rope and two stones to make a weapon, i was really proud
>>53068287
How is mazes & minotaurs? would you recommend it?

Have any of your players do something different with a spell? ie, using magic missile to move a rock or something like that

Other thread question, alternative magic system? like spell points/mana

>>53068584
I see. I think I'll try to get a hardcopy myself. Would be nice if it got shared here though.

>>53068637
http://www.necropraxis.com/2013/09/22/spells-without-levels/

http://www.necropraxis.com/2013/09/23/spells-without-levels-diabolism/
http://www.necropraxis.com/2013/09/24/spells-without-levels-elementalism/
http://www.necropraxis.com/2013/09/25/spells-without-levels-necromancy/
http://www.necropraxis.com/2013/09/26/spells-without-levels-spiritualism/
http://www.necropraxis.com/2013/09/27/spells-without-levels-translocation/
http://www.necropraxis.com/2013/09/30/spells-without-levels-psychomancy/
http://www.necropraxis.com/2013/10/01/spells-without-levels-vivimancy/

>>53061185
This looks fun, what's renegade crowns?

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>>53067729
They're "things that show up if you much around with divine powers". The Paladin in my group was asking about the different kinds of angels.

And yes, the Amalgam Angels are coming soon. Whole barnyards full of them.

>>53068516
>By "roleplay" we don't (usually) mean "acting is character."
>It's shorthand for "describing action and receiving arbitration."
honestly many of the people I've played with were bad at that as well

>>53068637
>How is mazes & minotaurs? would you recommend it?
never actually played it, but I'm definitely a fan of it, only major issues is the incredibly lacking spell system, and some of the rule choices coming off as a little arbitrary(since the author is trying to emulate the attitude of early TSR more than the rules directly), otherwise it's pretty great, especially when you consider it being free and having an absolute boatload of content available for it

>>53066581
that sounds rad as hell

are you the guy who made that brutal moon adventure map

Are there any judge's guild adventures for low level characters?

>>53072440
Any adventure, even verbatim, can be an adventure for low level characters.

>>53072489
I'm a DM new to OSR and have no idea how to run adventures for new level players, so any advice would be appreciated.

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>>53072622
This might be helpful.
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-learning-dungeon.html
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/04/osr-learning-dungeon-level-2.html

There's also a PDF version somewhere. You can read about my group of totally new players stumbling through this dungeon on my blog as well.

>>53072622
⌈n Search of the Unknown⌋ if your players aren't new to OSR.
⌈>>53072650⌋ if they are.

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>>53068182
>running 3e shit
>ever
Yeah, no senpai. There has to be another way!!

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>>53072440
> The Caverns of Thracia has been designed to accommodate adventurers of the 1st and high levels.

Need a more interesting name than "sword of the moon". Problem is, I don't want it to be flowery or exotic. To some extent I want it to be blunt and to the point, as this is like THE sword in my setting.

Suggestions?

>>53073877
the Crescent's Blade

>>53073931
actually, scratch that

the Crescent's Edge

>>53063125
You could hide a crescent-shaped Shangri-La-type valley there? Full of holy men and happy peasants who don't age.

Or, a Lost World valley, that works just as well.

>>53072440
A bunch of them. I think Spies of Lightelf, Pirates of Hagrost, Sea Maidens of Shield Rune and the other adventures made to be placed on Map 1 are all low level, as well as the Book of Treasure Maps mini-adventures are all for low levels. Only Caverns of Thracia and BoTM are any good, though. Those are written by Paul Jaquays.

>>53073877
"Sword of the Moon" is pretty cool if you ask me, but how about just calling it "Full Moon" or "Gibbous" or something?

"Crescent" is kinda obvious, so I wouldn't use it (sorry >>53073931).

>>53073877
Month's Measure.

https://youtu.be/CeCIIpODnfw
I need a Random Encounter table for Marketland.

Also traps ideas for the Casino of the Gods.

>>53073877
Lunar Claymore
Selenian Foil
Lunatic Blade
Waning Scimitar
Waxing Falchion
Lunate Cutlass

>>53074647
I'm stealing that.

>>53066236
Use pastebin and then make a poll to see if people want more

>>53073055
>> The Caverns of Thracia has been designed to accommodate adventurers of the 1st and high levels.

This is... not a lie per se, but needs some work. If you use Thracia, keep in mind the following:

It has exceedingly little treasure. I believe it was created with the implicit OD&D assumption that monsters give 100 XP per hit die slain (as per the infamous troll example). If you run it under a B/X "loot is the main source of XP" paradigm, your party might have big troubles leveling up.

This ties into...

Encounters are fairly brutal for a level 1 group, as most creatures, even on the first level, have 2 hit dice and excellent equipment.
If you run with the "100 XP per hit die" assumption, then your party will probably get in a few scuffles, raid a bit of treasure, then level up to level 2 and manage better. Keep this in mind, because keeping your party at level 1 throughout Thracia is pretty brutal.

I don't know, you might be into it, I'm not judging, just informing.

Anybody tried Central Casting - Dungeons? It's for randomly generating dungeons.
How did it go? How fast it is, once you get used to it?
Seems convoluted but maybe it's worth it?

>>53058029
>What brought you to OSR?
I was searching around for simple fast-playing fantasy games because the 3e and 4e games I've tried to get together ended up dying really quickly, and it's mainly due to the amount of set-up required for play.
>"Hey let's play D&D!"
>"Heck yeah, I got the books!"
>Cue 4 hours of people getting frustrated as they choose and write down hundreds of options from dense books culminating in 1 hour of mediocre playtime because everyone, including the DM, is already tired of the game by this point.
>Second session never happens.
I later found Basic Fantasy RPG, and subsequently, the OSR movement and embraced it wholly. I do enjoy newer games like D&D 5e and Savage Worlds but I doubt I'm going to run anything heavier unless it really interests me.

>Reading through Village of Hommlet
>So many high-level villagers
>A 7th level assassin just keeping shop, the local drunk is a 4th level ranger
>Ability scores through the roof
>Gold and platinum hidden everywhere
>Everyone has magic items

Holy shit, I didn't know things were so high-magic back in the day.

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>>53076794
Pretty much this for me as well

>...and it is a good idea to sharply limit the amount of material they can bring to the village [of Hommlet], as you will understand when you read the KEY to this place

I've read all the map keys to the Village of Hommlet, and I still don't understand. What did Gygax mean by this?

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>>53072240
No, but I was inspired by that guy. He really made me wonder how I would run the moon in my game.
>the surfave is essentially white sand and rocky outcroppings
>most life is subterranean, mainly because that's were all the water is
>during the day, intense heat inflicts 10 fire damage per minute to anyone on the surface
>there were humans here once upon a time, but now there are only legions of natural werewolves who follow their moon dragon god-kings and insane wights who make equally insane robots

>>53077960
>>53072240

Any link or repost? I'm also doing a moon thing and would like to have extra inspiration.

>>53058029
>What brought you to OSR?

I hadn't played an RPG in seven years, and my friend invited me to a Labyrinth Lord session. Turned out to be a lot of fun, and I appreciated how much simpler it was to just dive in. Later I ran a few games myself, and found that it was really simple to manage as a DM.

Since then it has been nothing but LL, Stars Without Number, and Star Wars D6. My sisters and their friends want me to do Pathfinder for them, which kinda has me nervous. I remember how frustrated I used to get making challenging but workable encounters,
and have become too used to the OSR way of just letting a dungeon be extremely dangerous.

>>53077793
He says there's enough shit in Hommlet for you to steal. No need to even delve into the dungeon areas.

>>53077987
>Since then it has been nothing but LL, Stars Without Number, and Star Wars D6.
How is the D6 system?

>My sisters and their friends want me to do Pathfinder for them
You could just say you don't know how to play PF

>>53077987
Just tell them that you're more comfortable with LL and ask if they'd be willing to let you DM that instead.

>>53078103
Its a lot of fun and a surprisingly gritty. We use static defensive stats from Mini6, and it helps cut down on time spent on combat.

>>53078182
Unfortunately, the reason they asked is because they remembered that I played 3.5, and they know there's enough similarity. but I do have a goofy scheme to convince them to switch to OSR.
>Have them roll up stats and stuff for PF
>Center the game around time travel
>Remake all their PF sheets to approximate an AD&D 2e equivalent
>Then a 1e
>Then a B/X or LL
>Then maybe a White Box, just for the fun of it
>Have them jump back and forth in game world time, with each trip back causing them to play D&D as it existed in equivalent real world time
>See which they prefer

Although, realistically it'll probably go like this
>Do all the above
>Play four games over seven months due to irregular schedules
>Players do everything they can to stick to PF time.

Oh well. I still think it is worth a try

Is Dungeon Crawl Classics worth getting?

Are there artists around that can be commissioned to do some work that looks similar to the nicer AD&D 2e stuff?

>>53078628
That sounds like a bunch of convoluted nonsense. I managed to switch my group over to OSR games by playing up the ease and simplicity of the rules/character creation plus fact that you don't need feats to do every little thing.

>>53078981
Legally?
It's worth getting the free version, but the price for the PDF is a robbery.

>>53079218
No for the hardback
>paying for a PDF

Basically is it a good rpg, is it worth getting into.

>>53079276
It's good but the gonzo would wear thin after a while for most people. Also, it's easier to convert from 3.PF to DCC than from TSR D&D to DCC. And the funky dice kinda suck.

>>53079203
Convoluted, sure, but I think it would be a fun and novel way to play and they're all on board with it. Things will only get easier once we get past PF character creation

anybody got any rules for slot machines

>>53079090
You are asking in the worst place for this, try G+, blogs, tumblr, etc. and contacting directly artists you like.

>nicer AD&D 2e stuff
What's that ""nice stuff""? Post example(s) I'll let you know if I know someone doing that style

Also, how much are you willing to spend? ""Nice stuff"" isn't cheap

>>53079410
DMG page 215. It comes with two (2) variants!
Not like it's hard to make your own...

>>53079483
thanks

i decided i wanted to make a casino-room with slot machines and bunny-waitress girls deep inside a terrifying dungeon

if anybody's played dragon warrior monsters for the gbc, i got inspired by the place you find fang slime in

>>53079542

Sounds pretty gonzo, I may have to steal this idea.

>>53079542
You might want to read up on Stonehell as well. One of the lower levels has a giant casino in it.

How much do you homebrew your monsters? Do you use them as-is, from the Monster Manual or whatever, mostly just as described there, or do you alter them heavily to fit your personal needs?

In general, how much do you use straight from the books versus putting your own spin on it?

>>53079693
I only reference a handful of stat blocks.
Everything else fights "as suchensuch," possibly with small alterations and/or ecological information.

>>53079693
I think it's pretty much impossible to use any monsters without at least homebrewing the fluff. If you decide your fire giants are vikings you've homebrewed (G3's fire giants aren't vikings but are germanic in flavor ).

>>53080414

I dunno, I've seen some pretty terrible "You see goblins, they instantly attack!" style DMing where there's literally no context, no flavor to monsters outside there being monsters that you fight.

I mean, that's terrible DMing, sure, but I've still seen it more than once or twice where the monsters have literally no culture or context. They're just monsters, there to be bashed around.

>>53079693

I started doing this silly, self-flagellating thing where I basically redo Forgotten Realms. For reasons, I kinda have to use the setting for some time, for a campaign, and I realized I have literally zero desire to do so. So I figured I'd just kind of break it into little pieces and build it back together as something else entirely.

It's a really ass-backwards way of doing things, I know. But honestly, I'm kinda digging the way I've turned it into a completely different setting. Mostly I just look at the most barebone facts about the setting and try to look for whatever implicit, more intresting take on it than the fucking Magical Streetlamps cutesy bullshit the setting is full of.

It's honestly not actually Forgotten Realms any more, at all. Now it's some sort of an atomic wasteland sword & sorcery setting with literally uncountable previous empires that fell into ruin (to the point that most of the Underdark consists of endless ruins that were buried and built over, again and again, all the way down, full of the remnants of past civilizations, until reality itself dissolves into latent memories of dead cultures. There's ghosts of empires down there), and the cosmic forces of Law and Chaos fueling an infinite cycle of destruction and rebirth in their eternal battle, using mortals as their pawns. Everything just repeats over and over again and everything is cyclical.

That is to say, there's a lot of homebrewing. Everything is homebrewed to all fucking hell. It has nothing to do with Forgotten Realms any more, aside from the barest pieces of the barest of shared premise. So I've homebrewed a lot.

>>53080650
Dump your campaign notes somewhere.

>>53080715
It's all handwritten because I hate my carpal tunnel -ridden wrists. But I've been thinking about compiling it into a file. At some point.

Anyone familiar with the GLOG?
I am reading through it and am a bit confused about attack and damage.
1) Do STR and DEX modify melee and ranged attack?
2) Does STR modify both melee and ranged damage? Because the pdf contradicts itself. In the dexterity description, it states that dex modifies ranged damage, but the weapon descriptions state it's str for bows and slings anyway.

>>53080650
>It's honestly not actually Forgotten Realms any more, at all. Now it's some sort of an atomic wasteland sword & sorcery setting with literally uncountable previous empires that fell into ruin (to the point that most of the Underdark consists of endless ruins that were buried and built over, again and again, all the way down, full of the remnants of past civilizations, until reality itself dissolves into latent memories of dead cultures. There's ghosts of empires down there), and the cosmic forces of Law and Chaos fueling an infinite cycle of destruction and rebirth in their eternal battle, using mortals as their pawns. Everything just repeats over and over again and everything is cyclical.

That's how it should be in the first place imo.

>>53080715
Seconded.

Are there any OSR games ripe for the cyberpunk genre?

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Can we talk about the epic level handbook or the book of artifacts? Just wanted to throw out there a question regarding how you gamers like such things. Do you play with higher level magic items? What's your favorite ones? What about epic level play? Have you ever got a character to those levels through play? Make up one at that level? What's the highest level you have gotten a character to? What about the Immortal box set? Is it any good?
Sorry for all the questions, just wanted to pick your brains for a bit.

>>53082380
>epic level handbook
>>>/tg/pfg/
>or the book of artifacts
Zeb is a baller, but that book is bland.
Not uninspired, just... bland.

>Do you play with higher level magic items?
When did magic items start having levels??

>What about the Immortal box set? Is it any good?
No, and neither is the Companion Set. Master Set is the shit tho.

>>53082507
>No, and neither is the Companion Set. Master Set is the shit tho.

But Companion set comes before Master?

>>53080848
[1] Yes, respectively.
[2] No, just melee.
>Because the pdf contradicts itself.
If the version number didn't tip you off, it's essentially unedited.

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>>53082529

>>53082507
Ok I don't play pf but you're being a shitter. Fuck right off. I played with the elhb LONG before pf or 3e was even a thing.
There are magic items with levels (especially weapons) but I meant in general. I hope that's ok with your highness.

>>53082738
It's common with these things that stuff goes worse as you keep on going, as all the mistakes and poor decisions just pile up and go worse and worse: it's pretty rare for something to suddenly pop up in quality before sinking back into the depths.

Why is it that Companion sucks, and how come Master suddenly gets better before Immortal takes it all away?

>>53082770
Mentzer wrote the Companion Set and Immortal Set.
He (heavily) edited the Master Set, but Gygax wrote it.

>>53082902
How does that change it, practically speaking? I don't know much of Gygax and less still of Mentzer.

How much customization you let your players do? ie "I want to play a gorilla/frog man with fire powers"

Also do you craft an story for your games or just sandbox dungeon crawling?

>>53082931
Gygax was a hack, but Mentzer was a stiff.

>>53082942
>How much customization you let your players do? ie "I want to play a gorilla/frog man with fire powers"
Mostly anything goes. True old-school was all about experimentation and weird shit - there was a guy that played balor once - so I don't see why I should stray away from this provided the customization in question can be inserted in and could be funny.

>Also do you craft an story for your games or just sandbox dungeon crawling?
I got my start in the hobby through story-based games, and I haven't managed to shake that off even going to OSR. I find dungeon crawling boring if there's no context, no characters, no plot going on around them. It may not be a deep story I'm doing but I try.

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>>53082380
>>53082739
>I played with the elhb LONG before pf or 3e was even a thing.

What did he mean by this?

>>53081131
Mirrorshades, Cyber-hacked, Stars Without Number

>>53082999
He told me to go to the Pathfinder general, which I don't even play. It was just a question, whoa. There is a 2e epic level handbook that predates 3e & pf by quite a bit.

>>53083048
>There is a 2e epic level handbook that predates 3e & pf by quite a bit.

I've never heard of this. Do you mean the Immortal rules?

>>53083083
>>53083048
DM's Option: High Level Campaigns?

>>53083158
Yes.

What's the best kind of stories to tell with OSR D&D? And what edition would you recommend?

>>53083158
>>53083196
The only good book in the Options series.
Odd that he kept saying "epic" though.

>>53083196
Call it with its true name. "Epic Level Handbook" just confuses everyone.

>>53083230
Combat & Tactics is also fine: it offers a bunch of good proficiencies, weapon specializations, and the most complete weapon list I've seen in 2e. Critical hit rules and unarmed combat are pointless, though.

>>53083230
I liked them all but you sure couldn't use them. Just bits and pieces of it. Combat book had some really neat mechanics in it but turned out to be yet another level of complication the game didn't really need it seems like. Some players loved it, some loathed it. S&p is where is started to get loony for our group.

>>53082942
Anything they want if we're staring a new campaign.
Nothing *too* out of place, rolled mid-campaign.

Lots of hooks, but they go nowhere.

>>53083255
Yes, sorry about that. I conflated two books and that was accidental. The 3e elhb is straight booty butt for some reason that's the name that kept coming to mind for the do:hlc book.

>>53083230
Was it not epic enough for you? I forget if it had a level limit for high level play or not.

>>53083361
>I forget if it had a level limit for high level play or not.
That book is almost entirely DM advice.

Mostly for combating level creep without scaling up monsters.
It also had some decent rules for scaling up monsters.

It /did/ have rules for levels through 30, but so did loads of other supplements.

>Was it not epic enough for you?
I'm not a fan of the word. Mostly from d20 use of it, but also from the abuse it took around... 2005?
It's also important to remember that "high level play' starts around level 10, give or take a few.

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>Prepare a dungeon
>Run it with my brother and 3 PCs
>Describe traps as fairly mundane, with what I thought was subtle clues ("acrid smell" around statue with gas trap)
>He avoids every trap and avoids unnecessary encounters with undead

God damnit he's just gonna rob this place and get out without a single TPK isn't he.

So what is the most strange character your group had made, and what abilities it had?

>>53083227
Bumping for this. Wanna try out OSR.

>>53083481
You're doing a good job, and they're playing well

>>53076927
>Gold and platinum hidden everywhere
>Everyone has magic items
Isn't the place meant to be ransacked by the players?

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>>53083488
Literally the Greater Dog.

Dumb as bricks, but could hit incredibly hard and solo encounters that the rest of the party would have trouble with. Also surprisingly good at stealth and with impressive calligraphy.

>>53083513
(It's a solo thing, he has 3 characters). We've talked about old school style play before so he knows the same tricks as I do. It's good fun, but it makes the prep feel more like a bunch of empty rooms while I understand it isn't like that from his perspective. Might just have to add something more weird and gonzo, so that I feel engaged as well.

I'm also running a fairly straight forward dungeon without any loops and stuff, so that might be adding to it as well. Very predictable from my perspective.

>>53083516
You mean the actual village? I don't know, I've never thought of it that way - usually the parties just go to the dungeons for the loot and leave the villages alone.

>>53079276
>>53078981
even if you don't run it, DCC is an absolutely gorgeous book

>>53083488
Two characters in one, shifting from one to another in day and night. When night falls, he is there, a priest of the moon and the stars. When the sun rises, she emerges in his place, with powers of sun and light.

They had separate spell lists, proficiencies, personalities, and appearance. It was great. Shame the campaign didn't survive.

How would you lads do random encounters?

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>>53083546
Maybe take a look at the Grimtooth books?
For inspiration, not for use.

>without any loops and stuff,
Without looking at your paper, scribble some straight lines and then some ovals.
Put a dot at every intersection and line-end. Dice for how many dots to put between those dots.
Boom done, that's a complete point-crawl map.

You can fancy it up by splitting points into multiple rooms (closest, immediate loops, other small stuff).
You can convert to an actual map if you take some time to think about layout.

But that'll quickly and consistently give you a decent amount of looping.

>>53083689
where do i get this book on PDF

>>53083689
>that's a complete point-crawl map.
I'll try that. We haven't finished the crawl, so I can probably add some loopy parts into the later parts of the dungeon. Also I really need to add more weird gonzo shit.

>>53083488
A magic sword that possessed its wielder. It was so virulent against magic-users that it made anyone (NPC only, thankfully) who dabbled in the arcane arts a target for its wrath. The sword itself could devour other magical weapons and gain their properties, including shaping itself into other weapons, shooting lightning, and disappearing/reappearing from its host's palm.

>>53083516
The village? No. You can, if you're higher level than everyone else but if it's meant to be looted, I never ran it that way.

>>53076794
T b h this was very much my experience as well, it's not really that I dislike newer games (although I do think now that I've learned about the OSR that a LOT of games have serious problems in the "what is the game about?" and then supporting that mechanically department), it's just that I find it almost impossible now to envision getting players for anything where it doesn't take 5-10 minutes to make a character.

>>53083772
Try grimtooth pdf as your search on Google. I can't ever remember when there wasn't a time you couldn't get them by downloading them.

>>53077987
>My sisters and their friends want me to do Pathfinder for them
Don't, if you value your life. Flat-out refuse. Tell them there just isn't enough time in one life to waste some of it on Pathfinder.

>>53083914
I've found that unless they're really into it, not a lot of people want to put forth the effort to deal with all the 'filing taxes' of making characters.

>>53076794
I'm getting more and more of the opinion that character generation should take as little time as humanly possible. 15 minutes even feels like too much.

Link w/o commentary:

http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/captain-hats/original-d-and-d/

So in the spirit of protecting class niche's, I was considering helping the usefulness (or apparent usefulness) of magic users by letting them identify magic items.

You've probably already house ruled this before. What's a good rule of thumb. Sense that objects are magical when given time to sit down with them (i.e outside dungeon)? Feel magical auras around object already when near them?

I feel like magic should be the M-U jam more than just firing of Sleep every now and then.

>>53084167
>[Dwarves] can speak goblin, kobold and gnome.
>[Elves] speak Orc, Hobgoblin and Gnoll.

I really like those ideas. Gives an added bonus if playing race-as-class. Makes it feel like actually picking something different? A cultural difference.

>>53084480
Magic-users can cast Identify as well. I feel like it's all they really would need for this sort of a thing.

What you suggest would, after all, make that spell virtually worthless.

>>53083227
>>53083511
>stories
>OSR

These aren't the droids you're looking for.

>>53084536
Hm, I suppose then I would want to make that; a starting spell and/or some kind of "free" spell. But probably just giving it as spell is enough so that it becomes a matter of days = # items to identify if you can only memorize it once a day.

>>53083481
Trap detection isn't about "subtle clues," it's about follow-ups to clues.
Give dummy clues that amount to nothing (or even treasure) if investigated.
Put roadblocks that must to dismembered or the path abandoned, no avoidance.

And remember to ask questions that amount to nothing.
"What to you do with your sword and shield as you open the door?"
"Which side of the door do you stand on as you open it?"
"What are your shoes made of?"
If you ask that sort of thing often, it'll be harder metagame when it matters.
Bonus points, you can re-use their answer without having to re-ask.

>>53084913
Yeah, I'll try it. We did do a lot of follow up and details on the execution of the thing (The player found an obvious pressure plate and was careful in pointing out the long strides taken when entering and leaving the room with the plate).

If I understand you right; I should add traps that have multiple qualities to them, and only one of those are actually what's the trap part of them? Other parts of it is just there as a decoy to trick the player into making a false move?

>>53083614
which system do you use?

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>>53084965
You should add qualities to things that aren't traps.

The (perfectly safe!) refuse heap has an acrid smell... and some magic elven boots, complete with severed elven feet!

>>53085051
2nd edition AD&D. Both characters were built using the specialty priest rules, then mushed together into the same body by means of good old-fashioned homebrew.

>>53084001
>unless they're really into it, not a lot of people want to put forth the effort to deal with all the 'filing taxes' of making characters.
Yes. More and more I think detailed chargen is just a kind of spergbait.

>>53085144
It can have its appeal, though I would enjoy seeing a game with absurdly simple character creation that increases in complexity as you keep playing, but that would probably end up becoming munchkin-bait.

>>53084913
>that must to dismembered
*that must be dismantled

>>53085060
Hm, I like that. Spook the players a bit. Empty rooms should feel dangerous.

>>53085294
I mean, sure. That's a bonus.

You don't want people identifying things to safely avoid.
You want them to invent ways to safely investigate things.

>("acrid smell" around statue with gas trap)
The point is to get them poking the acrid smelling statues.
Ideally poking from a safe distance, but that's on them.

>>53085361
To be fair, that's exactly what happened. I just pussied out and didn't make the thing shatter. But it's a learning experience, I think i'm being to cautious about just harming the players. If they poke the statue that smells like piss, they shouldn't feel cheated if it spews out harmful fumes.

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>>53082942
I told my players "If you have a character you /really/ want to play, you have to sell me on it, and sell the rest of the group. Otherwise, roll on this table."

>Also do you craft an story for your games or just sandbox dungeon crawling?

"Story" is a word like "good" or "tasty". It can mean a lot of things.

It depends on the kind of game. If you're a referee, you're not here to tell a story. You're here to manage the interaction of the rules and the players. This might produce a story, but you're not really there to craft it. You're there to make sure it's fairly crafted. You're quality control.

If you're acting as a GM though, you do need to craft some kind of story. It can be as simple as "You are all broke for some reason and want to go to this dungeon. Why?" and asking yourself "Why is this dungeon here?" and building a story about that, and letting the players discover it by exploration.

I like telling stories collaboratively. It makes the "dying in a ditch for gold" part of the OSR experience more satisfying.

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>>53083227
See:>>53086115

The core story is "a group of people get rich". OSR adds "most of them die trying."

Feel free to just say to your group immediately after you've rolled characters, 'You all decide, for whatever reason, that you want to go to this dungeon. Tell me why." See what kind of stories that creates.

You can't tell truly heroic narratives with OSR games, in my opinion. There's always the chance Luke Skywalker falls down a pit and ides. Han Solo catches leprosy. Leia eats a blaster bolt to the ear and dies screaming. Chewbacca retires with a sack full of lightsabers and stolen gear. The Empire falls apart due to taxation policies.This stuff doesn't happen in other, more narrative games. It's a different kind of storytelling. Don't set out to craft a Lord of the Rings style epic tale. Set out to craft something like a Cohen Brothers film.

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>>53085060
Empty rooms are always neglected. Good on you, anon.

>>53083488
The frogling knight who can now attack twice per round, once with his sword and once with his tongue (as a whip) is pretty fucking weird, especially when he discovered that tongue-whipping people while riding past them on his horse was allowed.

Carl the cockroachling assassin/bureaucrat/cultist who died before dealing any damage was pretty stupid too.

Both were randomly generated.

>>53074739
>I need a Random Encounter table for Marketland.

Pic related. Options 30-50 are just camels.

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>>53058256
>Save vs-
>Death = shit that you SHOULD NOT EVER be able to live through, like being disintegrated or drinking a dose of fatal poison, etc. This is like how in the slasher movies Jason always lives.

Makes sense. It's your "The Boy Who Lived" moment. Problem is, that's not how it's used, and the percentage is just too high. Plus, I think that ludicrously unlikely survival should be engineered though play, not through one roll.

Survive the stamped by using that scroll you found to turn all the wildebeests to (rolls) snakes, and then put on your Ring of Snake Resistance, and then pray to your God of Sailing to create a raft...

Or succeed on the climbing test series in Veins of the Earth.

>>53058256
>>53086579
So how come Stinking Cloud - basically just a magic fart - is save vs. poison, which is always the same number as save vs. death?

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>>53086611
IDK man, I didn't write the rules.

But that's the thing about OSR. If you want your Save vs Death to be Save vs 99.99% Certain Death... you can make it do that. Trivially.

>>53086663
>IDK man, I didn't write the rules.

I'd just like to know whatever the guy that DID write these things was thinking.

I'm pretty sure >>53058256 and all others talking like him are just trying to make up their own explanation to how the saving throws are supposed to work - to justify and explain out what is inherently nonsensical.

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>>53086720
>I'd just like to know whatever the guy that DID write these things was thinking.

Why? Would that actually improve your game? Wouldn't it be better to build rules to suit your goals, rather than picking goals to suit the rules (or the designer's intentions concerning the rules)?

>>53086611
Three possible reasons:
1. The developers felt that it should be easy to avoid the stinking cloud, so they used the saving throw that's the easiest to succeed
or
2. The developers felt that the stinking cloud was basically a poison, even though it isn't an instant kill, so they used the poison saving throw
or
3. A mix of the above

>>53084167
• player/referee count is for campaigns, not sessions
• non-elves can switch classes if they have good enough attributes
• the constitution %s are because those things just kill you sometimes
• the shitty broad ranges are actually [con - 3] * 10%
• the "hit die" mentioned in Protection from Evil is on-hit damage
• Charm Person recruits a hireling, they demand pay and test morale
• Slow and Haste are in CHAINMAIL, +/-50% movement distance


>>53086611
because it's riffing Cloudkill

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Are there any loot tables out there for "valuable, portable, mundane-ish, but not coins and jewels" loot?

If not, I should write one.

>>53087888
>pic

I thought you were only into kobolds?
>>53014623

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>>53087929
That... was not the gif I intended to post.

>>53087888
http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/2010/11/treasure-update.html

>>53086222
You forgot a crucial part of the true OSR sandbox campaign experience. The whole sentence is "A group of people try to get rich. Most of them die trying. Also, they mess fucking everything up."

It's amazing how many catastrophes a group of PCs can cause if you're in a sandbox environment where things will actually happen in response to your actions. I mean, as a player in a long-running (multiple years) campaign, the kind of shit that can be directly and indirectly traced to a bunch of treasure hunters fucking around with things that were forgotten for a reason is just staggering. Undead armies (and it wasn't even DFD), primal dragons running wild, a civil war or two. Shit's just wild.

But yeah. In general, OSR isn't about the story of the characters. It's about the world, and the question of how the characters will interact wth it. Trying to do a big epic story is mostly going to end in tears.

That being said, a high-level character in an OSR game CAN very well get something of a story going. And your should probably tailor more stuff for them, since they're actually someone in the world, and have more agenda and means to drive that agenda. If a PC is becoming the most badass warrior in the kingdom, it won't hurt to throw a hook about some ancient badass warrior's legacy at his general direction. But actually planning an epic plot out is just going to be an excercise in frustration and disjointedness. The third time every character dies and is replaced by fresh faces without any actual connection to any of the events that started the whole thing, it's going to start feel a bit silly.

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>>53088175
>>53088175
Good point. I'll be sure to include that going forward.

It's important that the PCs don't fuck things up by succeeding. They fuck things up by not thinking things through.

"Oh, there's a giant stone door here guarded with golems and magic locks? Must be treasure behind it."
And then later.
"Oh no!"

>>53086507
>Both were randomly generated.
How?

The thing with creating custom classes/races is that most characters will die before shining, like every other

have anyone here played reducing the lethality of the game? how was it?

>>53058029
Guess what's free now Motherfuckers!

Slugs!

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/187729/Slgs

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>>53088743
>How?
What do you mean "how?" A table of races, classes, professions, and random stats.

>>53088743
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.com/2017/03/osr-table-of-races.html
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.com/2017/04/dickensian-npc-generator.html

>>53088801
show me your ways anon, reminds me of that game about random mutants in a wasteland

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>>53088835
I mean, I'm not sure I'd use the "Dickensian NPC Table" for PCs, nessesarily. Maybe in a very weird Victorian OSR mashup (raid the industrial dungeons of Manchester for laudanum and coal! Sail to the Galapagos!)

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>>53088852
Ok....

So you know those 10-sided dice? You'll need 1 of those. And six sided dice too. Ideally, you'll need 2d10 and 3d6 but if we're going through this in detail, we're doing it in detail.

1. Roll on this table. >>53088859
Roll once for the 10s place and once for the 1s place. Then divide by 2, rounding up. That's your race. Later on, one of your Stats (listed) can be rerolled. You get a bonus thing you can do and a weakness. You are also from the village of Bogrest. Congrats.

2. Roll on this table, again, for the 10s place and the 1s place, but not dividing in half this time. >>53088801

That's your profession. You get the Item listed but not the weapon, unless all your Stats are under 8. In that case, you are too incompetent to enter any class and must be a commoner. You get a weapon. When you level, you can Save to enter a class. You're probably going to die.

3. Roll your stats. There are 6 stats and because they're nearly always the same I'm not going to explain what they are or what they do because you can pick up any OSR book and get a better explanation. They are Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma.

Roll a 6-sided die 3 times for each Stat and sum the results together. You can roll 3 new dice and sum them together for the Stat listed next to your race, and pick the higher sum. Higher numbers are better.

4. Depending on your highest Stat, roll on the table attached. Use a six sided die again but divide the result by 2 (rounding up). That's your Class.

And we're done the first bit! The rest is more math and rules and not what you asked about.

Kali's Kapala: Mug made of a skull missing its jaw, its eye sockets have trails of dried blood. If filled with 8HD of blood, can be drank from for 3d6+1 HP. Visibly oozes blood as it is filled, but will never spill unless drunk from.

Ash's Thunderbringer: A worn single-barrel shotgun. When fired does 1d6 damage to 6 targets in a 30' cone in front of wielder. Targets of 1HD or fewer save or die.

Udjat Eye: Reveals veins of ore within a 60' sphere around holder, and allows the holder to detect secret doors as an elf.

>>53089009
Riff things from FTL next.

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>>53089009
>Udjat Eye: Reveals veins of ore within a 60' sphere around holder, and allows the holder to detect secret doors as an elf.

"Holy shit!"
"What?"
"There's an elf right there! Ambush!"
"Uh, I don't see anything."
"He's right in front of you. Seriously, you can't see him? He's staring at us and playing with his hair. Smug son of a bitch."
"You're pointing... at a wall."
"An elf!"
"A wall. A perfectly ordinary wall."
"It's an elf. Also, by the way, there is a fuck ton of bismuth around here."

>>53067710

ACKS has a spell builder. ACKS has an everything builder. ACKS is the way, the truth, and the light.

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>NO NEUTRAL ALIGNMENTS
>There is no such thing as an absolute or neutral alignment. An absolute, true neutral person could not make a decision, fight crime, go adventuring, kill, or take any action of any kind without leaning toward good, evil, or self-gratification. It is humanly impossible and is therefore eliminated in the context of this game.
>I realize that some of the philosophers out there may disagree with this, but that's a topic for philosophical debate and not a factor of this game. Sorry, no neutrals; this is one of the very few definitive, unbending rules of this game.

How would this rule change affect your game?

>>53089248
It wouldn't affect my game at all

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>>53089035
Engi: Gray, faceless (bio?)mechanical men. Must have a minimum DEX score of 10. Advance as MU to level 6. Have an innate knack for repairing manmade objects; when making repairs in a stressful situation, they have only a 1 in 6 chance at failure.

Rockmen: Warrior race of living rocks. Must have a minimum CON score of 10, cannot have a CHA score greater than 10. Advance as Fighter to level 6. Immune to fire, take 3 less damage from all combat sources. Cannot be resurrected. Generally treated with distrust due to their aggressive nature.

I feel like FTL stuff would be better repurposed for Traveller, but that's a system I've never touched. You could also probably use it for Spelljammer.

If anyone else wants to request anything else, I'm up for it for another hour or so.

>>53089076
I laughed, thanks for that.

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>>53089364
>I laughed, thanks for that.
No problem!

>>53089248
It would make me say "My alignment does not dictate what I can and cannot do."

>>53089248
If you're familiar with WuXia, it helps to the of alignments like 黑白 (or 正邪).

Just a quick-and-dirty way to sort everyone and everything into a few "teams."
People outside of your team will happily punch you in the face without warning.

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>>53089248
I don't use alignments. They teach new players bad habits and they aren't useful for experienced players.

Happy now, you bait-chucking shitposter?

>>53089248
>using siembiedan philosophy towards game design
>ever
ISHYGDDT

>>53089364
>If anyone else wants to request anything else, I'm up for it for another hour or so.

Chromatic variant of existing monsters? Some (namely the chromatic aboleth) were brought up in the discord and it sounded pretty cool.

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>>53089779
Guys guys guys.

Dragon prism.

There once was one kind of dragon - white dragon - but it flew through a prism made of pretentious OSR blogs or xenon or something and got split into 8 chromatic a variants.

Presumably, the same thing could happen to anything else sufficiently magical. It wouldn't work on people, but I bet you could get a unicorn to spectrumate. It only works on non-alloy creatures (creatures like gryphons and manticores are circularly polarized)

>>53089841
>There once was one kind of dragon - white dragon

I wonder who could be behind this post.

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>>53089863
?

>>53089779
How's this?

Irisdescence [HD4(30HP), AC18]
Resembles a Beholder, but with 5 differently colored eye stalks, its core body similar to a soap bubble. Blunt weapons bounce uselessly off the core, piercing weapons always do their maximum damage. Each eye functions as the breath weapon of an Old dragon of its stalk's color. When an Irisdescence dies, it bursts, spreading sticky, acidic slime in a 50' radius.

>>53089508
>Happy now, you bait-chucking shitposter?
Not that guy, but I'm not happy.


Split sloth back into sloth and despair, and pride back into pride and vanity*
Also, nix envy. Envy is just being greedy and vain at the same time.

*old-timey vanity, not the newfangled narcissism-vanity

>>53080465
what if i dont fucking

want my monsters to have a culture

what if certain monsters are just the spawn of evil forces on a larger scale and i just want to kill them

>>53090047
The last time someone argued for that, the Dwarves near as died out (from inbreeding).

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>>53090042
>Pope Gregory the First was a hack

>Split sloth back into sloth and despair, and pride back into pride and vanity*

Look man, write your own dang note. I'm still laughing at "edible underwear" and "boxing".

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>>53090047
>>53090047
>what if certain monsters are just the spawn of evil forces on a larger scale
Those are called demons, devils, daemons, tanar'i, baatezu, yugoloths, liches, and humans, Mr. Snoozefest.

>>53090113
honestly i kind of just dig the aesthetic of older jrpg stuff where it's just monsters and shit in a dungeon

like in that anime slayers, there's no context for the mobs they kill they're just like, orc-looking things and shit and honestly i kind of just want that

Anybody know any good resources if I want to run an OSR game set in a !notNorthern Europe, like British Isles and Scandinavia in the 5th to 9th century?

I think it'd be a ripe time for an old school game, plenty of things left when the empire fell, lots of raiding dudes in big boats, roads are garbage, forests and ruins are mysterious, religions clash, etc.

>>53090169
points of light has an example of a dark-ages-post-roman-empire type setting in it with like barbarian tribes and shit

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>>53090132
And that's ok!

People in these threads love to fight about games as if there's "one true way" or something. You want to play/run a game that's not really about the context of the encounters, but where the encounters are satisfying, random, and varied? That's a valid kind of OSR.

Not writing like a fucking adult will get you hated though, just fyi. Put the effort in.

>>53090187
i've been on this site for like 9 years now get off my lawn

It's a habit I picked up from other boards, I'll stop though.

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>>53090220
Probably for the best. /osr/ is the kind of place where you bring your best habits from other parts of the internet, not where you bring your worst habits from other parts of /4chan/.

Pic not related.

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>>53090169
>OSR
Dragon had an article (or two) on Medieval Britain, HR1 Vikings, HR2 Charlemagne's Paladins, HR3 Celts, HR7 The Crusades

>not OSR
Pendragon, GURPS (Camelot, Celtic Myth, Middle Ages 1, Vikings)

>>53090184
That sounds pretty cool and a great place to start, thanks.

>>53090269
I was actually there for that post.

But yeah, my setting kind of takes the "forces of chaos/evil" thing literally. Orcs and goblins and gnolls existing are because the lords of this world are cruel and evil gods, and the scattered settlements of humans who haven't been tempted by their power still remember the Golden Age™ of a long lost kingdom and fight against them.

It's less so a coherent cosmology as it is a way of letting me go nuts with the pulpiness of the adventures. Countless minor gods, planes with names like THE CHAOS DIMENSION, or THE NIGHTMARE WORLD, or HELL, or what have you.

Hell, I've seen other anons charting up encounter tables for the moon, I'd love for the moon to be a location in my setting where I could put some extra weird stuff.

And with all that said, none of it is set in stone. I may even end up just making up some weird cultures for goblins and gnolls and stuff.

>>53090414
I should hope!
It was only last thread.

>>53090305
The topmost fold in her loincloth thing makes it look like she has a jutting boner.

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>>53090414
>I was actually there for that post.

I know, anon. There's less than 60 regular posters in these threads. Law of averages states pretty much everyone was there.

Sounds like a solid setting intent though. Image from Veins of the Earth related.

>>53090480
>Sounds like a solid setting intent though.

I'm never quite satisfied with anything I come up with, and I'm pretty open to change with whatever I do, which sounds good but is actually a pretty shit combination of things to be when it comes to running games, all things considered.

I love those mushroom people from Veins of Earth, though.

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>>53090562
>which sounds good
It doesn't.

Sit down. Write down your core values for gaming and, at least for one entire game, stick to them. Refer back to them before every session. Build on them and adapt but don't decide "fuck it, we gonzo now" or "haha, I just watched Grave of the Fireflies, you're all going to SUFFER".

Mushroom people < salamander people

>>53090187
Riding Pizzazer (AC 3; HD 2 more than mount; MV 0'; #AT 1/2; D 1-12; SD ignores saves/attacks that mount beats; Save F4; Ml 12; Al as chef) Feeds 2d4.

>>53090590
I will take your advice, anon. Thank you.

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>>53090649
>Riding Pizzazer (AC 3; HD 2 more than mount; MV 0'; #AT 1/2; D 1-12; SD ignores saves/attacks that mount beats; Save F4; Ml 12; Al as chef) Feeds 2d4.

I have no idea what system you're statting this thing in. It looks like some sort of garbled database query.

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What ever happened to MS Paint Anon?

>>53090729
name (armor class; hit dice; movement; number of attacks; damage; special attacks; special defenses; saves; morale; alignment) notes

>>53090735
im still here.

working on a big project though, haven't time for my shitty blog or stupid shit on here

itll be done eventually, you ready for a giant dungeon-crawl with modrons, terracotta armies, psionic jellyfish and wereshark pirates?

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>>53090783
That is way too much info, anon. My poor old brain can't deal with that many abbreviations without charging consulting fees. It makes sense... but it's weird as hell. I mean, does it /matter/ if it saves as F4 or MU3? Does it matter enough to write it down?

The statblock doesn't do much for the weirdness of the riding pizza. And you're already using abbreviations and shortcuts (Alignment as chef).

Gotta make this stuff more gamable.

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>>53090735
also, that one in particular is by a DIFFERENT mspaint anon than me, the guy who wrote the other shitty mspaint classes.

I wonder who you meant???

>>53090822
Psionic as in actually psionic, or Gary "Thesaurus" Gyagxian psionic?

>>53090847
>psionic
they're basically uri geller in the form of a floating, jelly-filled sac

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>>53090835

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>>53090854
Have you seen "Beyond the Black Rainbow"? Or the TV series "Legion", if you're into that?

>>53090870
hahah

no, the only form of entertainment i have now is this 300x400 win98 terminal and a bunch of graph paper and crayons

i wish i had tv

>>53090886
Might I suggested a you install a light linux distro?
I'm sure you could get MS Paint to run on WINE.

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>>53090886
>no, the only form of entertainment i have now is this 300x400 win98 terminal and a bunch of graph paper and crayons

How's Hell's waiting room these days?

>>53090894
id need to boot from a usb drive tho

assuming i could find a thumb drive somewhere in this condemned trash heap, all of my usb slots are gummed up with cigarette ash and dried cum

no luck there

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>>53090918
And now I'm wondering if it's possible to taint a .jpg...

>>53090886
So. There's this place. Called Japan.
The highest social class. Elites not withstanding. Are 90 hrs/week deskjobbers.
90 hrs/week deskjobbers with company apartments.
90 hrs/week deskjobbers with company wardrobes.
90 hrs/week deskjobbers with inter-company arranged marriages.

90 hrs/week deskjobbers with tenure.

They don't get fired. They get "offered' a retirement package.
If they refuse, the work in the 'waiting room.'

Where they wait.
All day.
90 hrs/week.


Your existence seems the worse hell.

>>53090822
Could I request you (briefly) pause that to write up >>53090954 as a class?

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>>53078628
There's actually a video game where a certain puzzle involves time travel, and when you travel to the past, you behave by the old rules of the previous version of the game, which allows you to bypass a differant set of obstacles. I can't remember what it was called, but I remember watching some dude play it youtube.

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>>53090974
Fuck classes. I'd like a nightmare neckbeard dungeon.

This thread has gone downhill

>>53086817
>Would that actually improve your game?

It well might. Knowing what the designer was thinking would at least let me know once and for all why it was added to the game - and I might actually agree with the analysis.

Granted, not very likely.

>>53089478
>like 黑白 (or 正邪)
So, what is that in English? And yeah, I am somewhat familiar with basic wuxia.

>>53090480
>There's less than 60 regular posters in these threads.
You saying that just made these threads much more comfy, and it also explains why any attempt at crowdsourcing only leads to half-finished ideas.

>>53092847
>it also explains why any attempt at crowdsourcing only leads to half-finished ideas.
Just wait a week and post the unfinished half for people to fill out.

>>53090480
>There's less than 60 regular posters in these threads.
How can you tell with such accuracy?

>>53093016
The strawpoll at >>53060654 has 83 votes for the first part and 49 for the second, and the in-between of that is 66, so that's something. Clearly not the most accurate thing but I wonder if it can be compared with statistics from the trove and the pastebin (if those things exist).