/STG/ - Star Trek General

>>52975629
star trek is good but i never knew who to masturbate to

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>>52975746
Jarok.

>>52975746
>easy mode
Bajorans
Vulcans
Humans
Vorta

>normal mode
Andorians
Klingons
Bolians

>hard mode
Cardassians
Romulans

>expert mode
Breen
Jem'Hadar
Remans

>insane mode
Pakleds
Tholians
Morn

>God mode
Ferengi

>>52976030
>Ferengi

>jackin it to space jews

I have my limits, sir.

>>52975629
Best edition.

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>>52976030

>>52976147
>They look for things. Things to make them come.
I died

>>52976030
>>52976147
What, am I the only one with a fetish for Klingon bitches? They're up there with Orcs.

>>52976254
Cardie spoon poon is superior, but Klingon kunt is okay too.

Tell me, /stg/, have you ever wrote any characters who were culturally divorced from their race, or at least their race's hat?
Trek does tend to suffer badly from race-hattism; all Klinks are warriors, all Rommies are schemes, Bajorans are guerillas or spiritualists or spiritual guerillas, etc.

They also tend to assume that, for some reason, most races which made it into space are culturally homogenous. Think about the difference between, say, an Irish Protestent and an Irish Catholic, let alone, say, an Irish Catholic and an Indian Sikh.

Have you ever defied that convention with a character who was NOT human? Or, alternatively, written an alien character who was raised by parents not of their race, and was fully culturally invested in the culture of their upbringing, instead of being a total weeb about the hat culture their species typically wears, the way Worf was?

>>52977655
Not that I disagree, but it could also be argued that when looking at alien cultures, the individuals could be very similar to our perception, yet vastly different in the eyes of their own race.

In the example of an Irish Catholic and an Indian sikh, if both were members of an organization like Starfleet, a Klingon would perhaps only look at them in the ways that are important to him (i.e. they are both mediocre fighters that rely too much upon the smoke and mirrors of diplomacy, just like the rest of Starfleet.)

>>52977655
Closest thing I've done is make a half-Kingon/half-Romulan, and even he was still a warrior, just more pragmatic about it. Less about personal honor, more about honor to the state.

desu I actually don't see the point. The good thing about "Planet of the Hats" is it ensures a diverse set of viewpoints, and it can be interesting to flesh out an alien culture to figure out why they are the way they are, like how Vulcans are logical because it's literally the only thing keeping themselves from angrily hatefucking themselves to extinction.

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>>52976030
What no?!
>So easy mode if you don't fap to them you are literally gay.
Orion

>>52977655
>Tell me, /stg/, have you ever wrote any characters who were culturally divorced from their race, or at least their race's hat?

I did, but I wasn't very good at it.

I try not to kneejerk look down at the idea, because I'm sure we've all been there: playing with someone who just read their first Drizzt novel and they're ready to break the mould, too. I'm fairly confident that we've also all been the one who just read their first Drizzt novel, or their first book about a good vampire who only drank evil people, or something along those lines, and we came up with something we're not proud of to be unique.

These days, what I try to do is not to divorce a character from their race's hat, but to draw attention to their clothes, to put it clumsily. I show how their race's hat fits them, but I try to add on things that make them individuals and show what more there is to a given character than the features of their race.

>>52977808
One of the really good things about Trek is that sentient alien races were never portrayed as Always Evil. Even if they were antagonistic toward the Federation, there were always individuals who were portrayed as more-or-less reasonable, just different. So it really isn't difficult or against the setting to make a Drizzt, so to speak. This is the same franchise that argued that a remorseless killing machine was simply feeding itself, that it may have been possible to communicate and pacify it, and that it was a tragedy that some old bitch shattered it into a million pieces. Even the Borg had their own Drizzts.

>>52977655
It could be suggested that the members of the respective races would have to follow their culture's blueprint, at least to a significant degree, if they were to survive adolescence, to say nothing of being able to leave their world and interact with the galaxy at large.

Like, you could have a Klingon that chooses to become a doctor, but the warrior training and jockeying for status that shaped his childhood is still going to influence his behavior and reactions. Is he going to take a request for a second opinion as a question of his ability and honor, and a personal affront?

It does make me wonder, since we've seen characters like Worf and Alexander (and I guess Nog) that are raised with a heavy human influence, if there are human Klingaboos.

Did Star Trek ever retcon the "humanoid aliens will develop similar cultures to humanity, right down to Romans and the Declaration of Independence" stuff?

>>52977899
Pretty sure all of those were some outside influence explained in the episodes themselves.

>>52977884
True enough. I think though that there's an easy pitfall with Trek to fall with regards to thinking that every race has its own thing. Perhaps they're not Always Evil, but honestly, it's hard to argue that Klingons aren't overwhelmingly portrayed as being all warriors, or Vulcans aren't overwhelmingly portrayed as being all dispassionate and unemotional, and so on.

And you're right that we do have many characters that stand out from their species. The Borg has 7 of 9 and Hugh and others.

But rather than, say, wanting to write a pacifist Klingon who is involved in an intellectually demanding profession with next to no combat application, I tend to err on the side of making a Klingon warrior with enough personality to make them memorable in their own right without throwing out everything that's Klingon.

If that makes any sense. I'm sorry that I'm not able to articulate clearly.

>>52976001
The scale on the crashed ship looks off to me, or is it really supposed to be that small?

>>52978056
iirc the declaration of independence thing was retconned as "planet was a Federation shipping outpost, one of the personnel was kind of a red-blooded American and had a copy of the Declaration of Independence he gave to the natives"

>>52978374
It is really supposed to be that small.


Owner: United Earth

Operator: Starfleet

Type: Explorer ship

Active: 22nd century

Length: 225 meters

Beam: 135.8 meters

Height: 33.3 meters

Mass: 80,000 metric tons

Decks: 7

Crew complement: 83

Speed: Warp 5.2

Armament:
Phase Cannons
Plasma Cannons
Pulsed Phase Cannons
Torpedo Tubes for Spatial and Photon Torpedoes

Defenses: Polarized Hull Plating

>>52977655
Well, my main in STO is a spoon who hates spoon history and is trying to be Jean-luc Spooncard. Also polygamy.

>>52978553
Thanks for the info, I guess it really is that small It's a nice looking ship. Well aside from the sand and the damage I mean.

>>52979016
I'd hop onto STO and spend so much money on it if you could play a spoonhead for realsies and not as some generic ass ayyyy lmao

>>52979016
Admiral Korvat, is that you? After all this time?

I haven't looked at STO in years, is it actually fun, and is starfleet dental still a thing?

>>52979785
Last i saw of Dental was when Leonard Nemoy died and he and a bunch of others came to rain on other peoples mourning party at Vulcan, by dancing in the fountain, around which folks had gathered to mourn and by popping space disco balls all over the place.

>>52978374
>>52978553
No, the scale is way off. I'd say it's even half as big as it should be, 2/3 at best. Those people are at least 2.5m tall, if that ship is proper scale.

>>52979469
I don't know who that is.

>>52979875
Yeah, that sounds like dental.

But is the game actually fun? I'm an eve player, so you know I'm already autistic...

>>52980040
The space game is basically an arcade/casual version of Starfleet Command, if you've ever played that. But if eve is fun to you, then you might explode with the fun of STO.

>>52980184
I dunno, I got bored of sto about ten minutes after I hit level cap last time I played.

Has it improved in the last four years?

>>52979016

I have a Klingon Spoon who I've justified as being from a prison colony that everyone ended up forgetting about and the Klinks and Cardies ended up living in harmony like the TNG episode with the same plot but Klingons and Romulans

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>>52980040
Well, they have been adding story missions non stop since the game started, currently their phase seems to be one episode per month, this months episode is set on a planet that looks like a dystopian shithole (Not Earth).
Also theyadded yet another rep grind and few STFs to go with it, this one is called Competitive wargames reputation.
In Competitive war games you gotta play with a team of poorly trained Orangutangs against a team of Korean competitive players in a match to try and get to the end of a three trial obstacle course to destroy a giant warp core/enemy bosses before the enemy does.
In space one you can also fight the enemy players, so this is some sorta PvP/E stuff.

Also they made it so the tier 6 escorts with x requirements get a new additional heavy weapon which only they can use.

There was some nerfs recently, beamboats, though they got nerfed too, remain still very playable, while science was made even more useless and tac boats were made even deadlier.
They tried to somehow buff healing and shield and hull health, but DPS still wins the day.

Also, thanks to Cryptic screwing up we now know what the next summer event ship will be.
A Vorgon Carrier!

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>>52980192
Let's see.
Multiple new rep grinds, several seasons of story content, multiple new ships, multiple new dead STFs and new ships got added to the Ferengi PvP, including this fucker.

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>>52980040
Oh right and this is what STF queue lists look like now.

OH! and they also changed the sector space so it's much more open now, basically there is a map loading only when you leave a quadrant.

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>>52980232
Pic related is the current map.

>>52979016
I have a Cardie (with Galor) that I claim has a mixed crew. I.e. My Cardassian and his crew are allowed to fuck about in Federation space so long as they keep a few Feds on board. But at this stage most of them have gone "full-Terran" and started encouraging my Cardassian to become a Privateer.

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>lighting 2.0

>>52980211
If the Vorgon carrier uses the same skin as that battleship, I may never use any other ship ever again. That ship is SOOOOOOOOOO sexy.

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>>52980346
I kinda doubt it, found these pics on google.
This is probably what the carrier looks like.
The battleship is going to be either a lock box thing or next years summer event ship.

>>52980367

They used the NPC Breen Battleship as the playable Breen Carrier, so they might repeat that here.

>>52980367
That's been a cruiser so far. That said, I kinda hope you're right, just because I'd rather the battleship be, you know, good.

>>52980415
Dunno, carriers got buffed in latest balance changes.
>Fighters are now immune to single torpedo hit per 30 secs
>Fighters damage output increased and their abilities buffed
>Fighters can no longer die by being in the blast wave of a ship with core meltdown

They are now more like flying weapon mounts than before.

>>52980425
Flying weapon mounts that get none of your buffs, though.

>>52980216
That has got to be the ugliest ship I have ever seen. Even uglier than the other 26c ships and I didn't think that was even possible.

>>52980425

>Buff the pets stats because buffing their AI is too much effort

>>52980431
I think they do get your buffs.
No wait, i think that was some T6 ships mastery skill.
Hold a sec, going to wiki.

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Heavy_Escort_Carrier_(T6)#Starship_Mastery
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Jupiter_Class_Carrier#Starship_Mastery
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Breen_Sarr_Theln_Carrier#Starship_Mastery

Yeah, at least the beam overload and cannon rapid fire can be performed with the heavy escort carriers mastery trait.

>>52975629
Is it "Dee deredix" or "Duhderedix"?

>>52980468
But that means that those trait slots AREN'T emergency weapons cycle, or the temporal emergency power trait, or any other OP traits.

>>52977655
I actually made my Klingon in STO a bit of tech geek, engineer class, sure he can handle his Batleth, which was actually the energy Batleth you got from that one Christmas event. It was kinda funny to get threatened by some Trill player going all Klingon warrior and my character was more interested on the material the Trills daggers where made out off.

>>52977655
If we're talking just head-canon stuff, I made a bunch of Cardassian characters for a story idea I had.

Essentially, the story would see numerous different military/political factions vying for control of Cardassia and, by extension, the future path of the Cardassian Union.

On the extreme ends, there are the Restorationists, people that subscribe to Dukat's logic. "Cardassia shall regain all that she has lost", etc. Imagine the True Way only state sponsored and with no interest in kowtowing to the Jem'Hadar. On the other en there's the Charterists, who believe in intentionally weakening the Cardassian state so as to force them to join the Federation.

In between there are a number of less extreme parties aiming to shape a new Cardassia, distinct from the old one. The New Hebitians, for instance, wish to see a return to spirituality. Nominally they wish for some form of bi-patriate union with Bajor, as they see Bajoran and Cardassian spirituality as inexorably linked.

The Nationalist believe in rearmament, but with the tacit agreement that war with the Federation must be avoided at all costs, even if that means supporting the Federation in it's own conflicts. Their primary goal is to create a self-sufficient Cardassia.

And finally there is the Provisional government, ironically similar to the initial government of post-occupation Bajor, the provos are all about keeping the status quo and end up compromising with all of the factions to a significant degree.

The plot would revolve around a member of the Provisional government actually working for the Restorationists and trying to pull a fast one on Starfleet observers, effectively wiping out the Charterist insurgents. The Feds eventually figure out what's going on and are forced to back the Nationalists, as the only other major military influence in the Union.

What follows would be a very Cardassian civil war. rather than open fighting, most of the conflict would take place as a vast web of intrigue.

>>52977655
>Think about the difference between, say, an Irish Protestent and an Irish Catholic

That is, perhaps unintentionally, a very apt example to explain the existence of both a culturally homogeneous and culturally schismatic society, from a combination of the same 2 subgroups.

Within the Republic there is essentially no difference between Irish Catholics and Protestants. Both groups are so mixed together that class is probably a bigger filter for societal views. Where there are differences, they are generally superficial. Catholics watch hurling, Protestants watch Rugby. And even then that's more of an old, inaccurate assumption, seeing as Rugby has become so popular over here. Both groups intermix socially, attend the same schools and apply the same intrinsic Irish culture to their own identities.

Whereas within the North, the difference is so pronounced and volatile. Religious identity is perhaps the greatest divider in Ulster. There are signs that, after decades of peace, that's finally beginning to change, but all the Ulaidhs and Ullans I know still have very partisan views on the culture and politics of their home.

I think Star Trek doesn't focus on these cultural difference for a few reasons.

1: With a few notable exceptions, most cultures in trek aren't deeply explored.
2: the nominal dominant society from which Star Trek is coming aspires to leave these differences at the wayside to create a new national monoculture

But we do see a bit of cultural diversity.

Obviously there's humans. The dominant culture is shown to be a sort of blend of of Western values with tolerant secularism. But we see examples of Creole, French, Irish, English, Scottish, Russian, Japanese, African and various American cultures through out the various series, distinct from the Federation's .

>>52977655
>>52981750
We also see, albeit to a lesser extent, differing cultures within Bajoran, Cardassian, Klingon and Romulan society to show that the dominant monoculture isn't directly representative of all of these species, but does serve as a good touchstone for their society.

Klingons have dominant warrior culture, even outside of warrior jobs, but other identities exist within Klingon culture. Religious, legal, agricultural. In fact, when separated from their monodominant culture, Klingons can develop wildly different world views. Ranging from and idealism for a lost personal identity (Worf) to a near complete rejection of their own culture (Be’Lanna). Not to mention the conflicting ideals of their political elite. Gowron, Martok and Duras all have wildly divergent views despite being essentially contemporaneous.

The Overarching threme of Cardassian society is service to the state and to the family unit, but numerous interpretations of that core identity exist simulataneously. The Military’s concept of conquest, Quark’s missus’ ideal of democratic conversion, The Cardassian scientist’s more open peaceful views.

I guess the point I’m trying to make is that you can be both homogeneous and schismatic within essentially the same subgroups. In Trek we often only get exposed to the latter during times of strife within a culture. Civil wars, political unrest and so on. But even then we’re really only ever dealing with a small facet of each of these societies.

>>52980666
That is very much true, satan.

>>52980590
I don't think it's ever said on screen. Everybody just refers to them as Romulan Warbirds.

Though in a few games they tend to put emphasis on the "Dee" sound at the start, so you end up with "Dee-der-ay-dex" or something similar

>>52982839
>I don't think it's ever said on screen.
Tin Man, although in that episode they were called D'daridex.

>>52975629
Man, the D'deridex has one of the best musical suites in TNG. It really conveys the sense that one of these fuckers showing up is absolutely going to ruin your day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBZdkEm8g4Q

>>52983056
Better than a lot of the early tng tracks. They had a weird carnival feel to them.

>>52976147
>slave camp roleplay
>implying the Bajoran isn't hiding the biggest sub kink ever behind her tough mask

>>52977777
quints confirm

>>52980441
I T ' S C A N O N
T
S

C
A
N
O
N

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>triggering nightmares in TNG kiddos

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>>52985706
Also triggering sadness.

>>52985490
Canon doesn't mean quality

>>52977777
Does it even really need to be said?

On the topic, I recently found out that the actress that originally played Ziyal was also one of the 3 Orion girls in that episode of Enterprise.

Lately I've been reading the pulp novels of TOS. The first one I read was a real adventure- derring-do, problem-solving, character in adversity. If it had been written today, it would've been made into a tabletop adventure or vidya.

But the next one I picked up was a romance novel in trek clothing. Every character had some lost love they were pining over, threw hissy fits when they didn't like where a conversation was going, did things purely for social relationships over any sense of duty, and had conversations with themselves that would certify them insane, at least for the males. If you guessed that the second book was written by a woman, step up and collect 20 credits; if you guessed she disguised this fact by using her initials instead of her name, collect 50. I just got to the halfway point and realized this book isn't going to get any better, and I'm royally pissed off.

>>52988013
show us on the doll where the "sjws" touched you

>>52989523
He isn't too off the mark, there's some original Trek novels that are just good adventures (or comedies*), and others that are almost embarrassingly Mary Sue-ish. I started rereading Uhura's Song yesterday and it's got a race of incredibly graceful, beautiful, gentle, emo cat people with a tragic past AND a lady doctor who's more ornery than McCoy and a better duelist than Sulu who just happens to be strikingly attractive but short (only as tall as Kirk's chest insignia).

*Best TOS novel of all time is "How Much For Just The Planet", where Humans and Klingons have to band together to face a terrifying foe... a people who's "hat" is Gilbert and Sullivan operas.

>>52990033
Yeah but John Ford's two books are better than 90% of all Trek media because of how self aware it was.

Just rewatched "The Inner Light" for the first time in years. Fucking hell, I thought I had over-hyped it in my head as a result of nostalgia, but it really does still speak to me on a level that most science fiction doesn't.

I think that's what Star Trek is at it's best. Characters engaged in something bigger than themselves, being changed by an experience that you couldn't possible imagine.

>>52990905
On that note, favourite episode of Trek? And why?

>>52990033
Butthurt OP here, is that what Uhura's Song was? It was so widely acclaimed, I was looking forward to reading it. I feel lousy enough to go to /r9k/ and fit right in.

>>52990218
I'm there, hombre, you saved the day.

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>>52991117
In the Pale Moonlight

>>52991117
TNG's Chain of Command I & II were really great. On DS9 I also really liked Duet.

>>52991117
Overall favorite: "Trouble with Tribbles". Because I'm a simple man with simple tastes.

Close second is TNG's "Cause and Effect". Anything time loop is top tier for me.

Could we get a compilation of Trek novels worth reading? Maybe OP can ad an /stg/-approved reading material link" for the next thread

>>52990033
>almost embarrassingly Mary Sue-ish

Isn't Star Trek fanfiction fandom the *source* of the original Mary Sue?

>>52991679
>/stg/ approved reading material
Just Beta canon, or non-trek stuff too?

>>52991748
Lets go with the latter. Should be more interesting

>>52991117
Really torn between In The Pale Moonlight and Trials and Tribbleations.

Both exemplify what Star Trek can do well in serious, hard hitting moral conflict with a big dose of self examination and light-hearted space shenanigans.
Both are also really self-referential, relying a lot on the established setting and characters. And the actors too, with the episodes (and of course the Trouble with Tribbles) really getting pretty much everyone to bring their A-game. Hell I even liked Jadzia as a character in them and, well she wasn't that great for a lot of her stuff. Fuck Rick Berman

>>52976001
>terrible novel gets awesome cgi fanart

>>52992361

The art came first, the novel was based on it.

>>52976001
>>52992361
>>52992393
Okay folks, since we had the question about each series' shitty episodes before:

How would you fix Destiny?
>Fuckhuge Borg invasion compulsory
>Deus Ex compulsory
>Throwback to ENT-era preferred
>OP donut steel ayylmaos optional

>Hard Mode: It has to include viewpoints from all of the TNG era show's crews, wherever they ended up being reassigned.

>>52993037
Only thing I would have changed was the removal of the Borg as a threat. All it would have needed was "Hey this particular chunk of Borg have turned into good guys!" and maybe "Neat, they've given us new lazors to shoot at the rest of the Borg!"

>>52993037
>borg actually invade and assimilate
>no destroying planets
>Voyager 6 was actually a post-FC warp probe
>some borg nanoprobes survived getting destroyed in "Regeneration," get on Voyager 6 somehow, becomes VGER
>Deus Ex: someone remembers TMP, pulls out VGER Starchild from the Weird Shit vault
>Starchild reunites with Borg
>Borg have now reached a point where assimilating Federation isn't going to lead to improvement
>Borg bugger off, day is saved

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>>52993115

>>52993602

>>52993115 here, I guess I'm just easy to please. I enjoyed the books, and maybe that's a bad thing.

>>52991117
"Necessary Evil" or "Duet"

In general, I like the way that the Bajoran-Cardassian conflict is handled. But these episodes really stands out for me as an example of how not everybody on one side is inherently good or evil.

>>52993666
Not him, but I genuinely have no idea what you mean but nice trips

>>52991686
Yes. Mary Sue was a TOS era fanfic character.

>>52993037
I would do WWII's Pacific Theater IN SPAAAAAAACE.
>Voyager gets the Endgame upgrades reactivated
>so do all the Sovereigns, Defiants, and Akiras
>the Borg finally received the ENT era broadcast telling them about Earth's realspace coordinates and showed up in force
>much of the Sol system is in ruins
>paradise is burning
>"I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with terrible resolve."
>The Big Bag of Kinetic Weapons and Doomsday Devices gets turned into an armory
>island hopping with star systems
>landing fleets of MACOs versus dug in drones
>Starfleet propaganda saturates the home front
>actual WWII arms and ammo brought back after experience vs. Hirogen and Picard's tommygun fun
>Ezri Sniper Special as squad DMRs
>fleet carriers versus Borg swarms
>Defiants and Peregrines versus Spheres and Borgnuggets
>phase cloaked "sub duels"
>any planet or moon the Borg can't be dug out of gets hit with a Genesis torp
>internment of Borg-ish Federation citizens like Picard, Seven, and Jacob, which causes Commodore Kira and Admiral Demora Sulu to have uncomfortable reminiscences
>at series end, Borg Queen unconditionally surrenders
>Janeway drops a Genesis on the Borg homeworld anyway because she's Janeway/MacArthur
>sentenced to life imprisoned the same place Paris was doing time
>last page of the last book: a dormant Borg nanite in Earth's Arctic gets picked up by a polar bear and hums to life

>>52992125
It has sweet fuckall to do with Trek, it's not even sci-fi in any sense, but The Fated Blades series by Steve Bein (Daughter of the Sword, Year of the Demon and Disciple of the Wind) are fucking awesome.

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Best ship?

Hahahahahahahahahahaah no.
But for some reason I love 'em nonetheless.

Anyway, I'm bumpin' to prevent threadcap, with a Miranda no less, and here, have an example character questionnaire I made for a game I considered runnin' but didn't.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1olu9sXm08YxYp8TUfrI_-mNJjcuF5kJ3K1c1LojBM5g

>>52993422
Shatner beat you to the punch there. And sowed the seeds that would lead to the Romulans fucking with Borg tech too.

>>52998026
Ahh, the good old "V'Ger was Borg, so Spock was immune to assimilation because they thought he already was" trick

>>52998123
I unironically like that book as a better ending for Kirk than just Generations, even if the Kirk wank was in full force.

>>52998123
If the Borg perceived Spock as already Assimilated, and he wasn't behaving the way the Collective willed, wouldn't they perceive him as defective and try to "repair" him/retire him?

>>52998180
You are attempting an insertion of logic into a piece of entertainment.

[Fatal error detected, please restart your device.]

>>52976030
>god mode
>ferengi
You don't have the lobes for shitposting, anon.

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>>52997896
>Best ship?
No, but this is.

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>>52998327

I have a hearty love for the Nebbie, just as I have for the Miranda, but I must respectfully disagree, Anon.

Nebbie is a wonderful ship, and I'd gladly vacuum the carpets on one any day, but it is still not best ship.

Of the unambigiously prime-canon hero ships, I think this may be best ship... This... Or...

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>>52998384
This?

Or maybe...

GAH! I can't decide. Too many sweet-AF ships!

>>52998401
Okay, I adore TNG as a whole, but no. The Galaxy is OFFENSIVELY ugly. The Galaxy-X refit helps, but still...

>>52998660
>The Galaxy-X refit helps

Not for me it doesn't. I can't stand that slapdash third nacelle.

Mind, I'm not a big fan of the design of the normal Galaxy either.

>>52998660
The Galaxy-X is terrible. I don't get why people like it. It takes a very simple design and busies it up with random bits of excessive detail.

>>52997896
>>52998327
>>52998384
>>52998401

>Best ship
>not looking at the thread edition for the obvious answer

lads...

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>>52996214
>last page of the last book: a dormant Borg nanite in Earth's Arctic gets picked up by a polar bear and hums to life

>hear about some new Star Trek VR bridge sim
>get excited
>see that you only have the option oh nu-Trek and TOS jellybean controls
>neither TNG nor Film-era LCARS
>life is suffering

>>53001155
Wait til it either does really well sales wise, or the folks that made it need another quick buck, TNG and/or Film era DLC practically guaranteed then.

>>53001263
Here's hoping

>>53001155
I've always been confused why TOS is wanked over so much. I found that TNG and especially DS9 are far more worthy of fanwank than TOS.

>>53002526
>I've always been confused why TOS is wanked over so much.
It's the original. From 1966 to 1986 it was the only live-action series. It's the same reason the Star Wars EU is focused so much more (or was) on the original trilogy and afterwards than the prequel or Very Old Republic eras.

>>53002526
Simply because it's the original and the one most ingrained in pop culture, especially for old TV and movie studio executives.

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>>53001155
Bridge Commander was great. NuTrek? Gagh me.

>>52998660
What fucking heresy is THIS?

This thing is beautiful, elegant, classic.

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This is also not Best Ship...

But it's Damn Fine Ship.
I wish that Usualsuspex would do an ortho of the Okinawa, though.

Who wants to go launch a few braces of photon torpedoes at the Interstellar Concordiat? I want to fly the missile boat.

>>53003100

Bridge Commander was OK.
Klingon Academy is still the best bridge simulator though.

Personally, best ship is the Ambassador or the Apollo (it's to the Ambassador what the Nebula is to the Galaxy)

>>53003230
Yeah, nothing quite beats the satisfaction of nailing an errant Fed cruiser and punching a hole clean through

>>53005056

Also the Dildoships of the Romulan War era, because I'm a physicsfag who can't keep his autism from infecting everything he enjoys.

>>52998401
Was this written by a fucking fifth-grader?

>>53006412
Most of these sci-fi is-ographics are made by Germans. So a 10 year old's English reading comprehension wouldn't be too far off the mark.

>>53003230
KA had a better story, but I preferred Bridge Commander's combat--KA still had a lot of Starfleet Academy's "ships are just big fighters" feel.

>>53006953

The bigger ships sure don't handle like one though.
Also. you have an insanely huge toolbox ranging from "board those fuckers" to "let's see if we can tractor beam them into a planet" allowing for more fun than "fire at will" in BC.

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>>52996214
>not star trek in the slightest
>like, even less than actual Destiny was
>i still fucking love it
>someone get JJ on the line

>>53001155
>LCARS
Why does everyone wank over Okudagrams so much? Like, the MSDs are pretty nice, but the blue-green displays on the Excelsior were pure sex

>>53007113
>The bigger ships sure don't handle like one though.

The BIGGEST ships sort of didn't, but anything smaller than that more or less felt like I was playing Freespace.

>>53007482
Those are also considered LCARS, anon

>>53007526

PumwI' or bust!

>>53006953
My main issue with KA is that it seems like bigger is always better. So there's no room for an interesting dynamic between, say BoPs and the Kahless dreadnought.

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>>52998384
>I'd gladly vacuum the carpets on one any day
You taste in ships might be off, but I like you and your humor.

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>>53005056

Did somebody say, Ambassador?

This is the original design of the Ambassador. Instead of being "midway between a Constitution and a Galaxy," it was "Midway between an Excelsior and a Galaxy."

I think this may, in fact, be best ship. Or at least, best-looking ship of the pre-TNG, post-TMP era. I headcanon it as there having been two different runs of Ambassadors, the first run are the sleeker, sexier, prototype Excelgalaxies, and the second run, the block 2s, being the fuglier ones we remember from Yesterday's Enterprise.

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>>53010488
>fuglier

u wot m8?

Probert's original design is good from maybe two or three angles at best compared to the all angles goodness of the actual Ambassador class.

>>53010488
>too wide
Nah senpai - her engineering section may have been a bit chub, but the real Ambassador is best girl

>>53010970
I disagree. The Connie is like worchestershire sauce, and the Galaxy is like ice cream.

Two great things, but they do NOT combine well.

>>53010970
The struts being at 90 degree angles and the chubby nacelles make it less than appealing. It's just not a Starfleet ship without sleek nacelles. The Galaxy's at least tapered.

>>53011325
How about the later version where the vertical portion of the strut is shorter and raked further back, so that the nacelles are lower (completely visible from the front)?

>>53011691
Eh, still not feeling it. The nacelle strut being at the right angle is the bigger issue. If it was angled out similar to the Enterprise, or if the nacelles were placed like the Excelsior's were, on the top of the secondary hull, it would be okay.

>>53011824
How about canting the vertical portion outward by 30-45 degrees but keeping the flat "deck" that goes around the aft?

>>53011907
Almost Intrepid-esque, but fixed in the "up" position

>>53011907
That works, as long as you short the horizontal arm so that the nacelle is still under the saucer.

>all this talk of best ships
>nearly no mention of the Excelsior

Madness

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>>53012361

Right?

>>53012590
>Aye, and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon

>>53012849
Engineers tend to get attached to "their" ship's to the point of defensiveness.

You know there has to be hundreds of chief engineers serving on everything from a Miranda to a Galaxy that claim that their ship is the best.

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>>53012849

But Scotty, you fly in warp ships, but you haven't any nacelles.

>>53012989
>serving
>on a miranda
Not for long they won't be

>>53013061

>Miranda on patrol
>Runabout comes alongside
>Chief engineer is moving up in the world
>Transfer to a new Galaxy class!
>Runabout leave with the former chief engineer
>Several months of boring patrols
>Dilithium crystals become misaligned over time
>Too much antimatter
>Runaway reaction that isn't detected in time
>All hands lost

>>53012989
Not even limited to engineers.
>"In every measurable sense, my Enterprise is far superior. But there are times when I would give almost anything to command the Stargazer again."

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>>53012361
>>53012590
Mein Gott! How could I have forgotten.

Of course Excelsior is best ship. Hell, the Excelaxy Ambassador is mostly the same anyway.

>>53013061
>>53013140
It's getting stale, guys. At least coming up with new shit for Ark Royal takes creativity and effort, even if you fa/tg/uys sperg about it. Get some new material.

>>53013778
>getting stale
>on /tg/
Anon, you are aware that Love and Krieg's still doing the rounds, right?

Not being contrarian, but I hate the Excelsior with a burning passion

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>>53013778

>ark royal
>mary sues everywhere
>not stale

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>>53013986
Get over yourself, anon.

EVERYONE in Starfleet is a Mary Sue.

> But, but, but pic related.
ESPECIALLY Pic Related, anon. Miles Edward O'Brien is basically Starfleet's Mace motherfucking Windu. He's killed more Cardassians than he can even fucking COUNT, when most people can count the total number of sapients they've killed without needing any fingers at all, he's survived so much shit that would, and SHOULD, break an arbitrarily large number of lesser men, including being the favorite torture buddy for monsters both onscreen and off-camera.

A mere mortal would be a gibbering wreck, or be crammed so full of drugs he couldn't see straight. Miles Edward O'Brien not only facetanked all of that shit, he managed to hold down a steady family life with the Japanese Hate Ghost to boot.

>>53014349
It says something about Trek where the most down-to-earth realistic human character was a Ferengi who pulled the "my species is evil and I want to be better" card.

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>>53014349

>>53014349
O'Brien is a typical WWII vet on a ship full of Boomers?

>>53012590
>>53013778
I just realized that an Excelsior and a BoP scout facing off happened probably every week for 150 years along the borders if STO is canon. It's like the Trek equivalent of the Tu-95 flybys.

>>52995977
Don't forget Slash fiction also got it's name from Star Trek with all the Kirk/Spock fanfics people wrote

So why doesn't the Federation use a single currency? It's evident that various different currencies exist within the UFP but they don't seem to have any sort of single market.

>>53018501

The federation is a technosocialism, basically. Civilians simply don't have need of currency, because anything they want, they can just get. Corporations as we know them basically don't exist.

The only plausible use for currencies inside the UFP would be for transactions between member states, and the UFP would want those to take place without currency as a way of keeping currency out of mind altogether.

>>53018501
I'll point you towards the EU. The Euro is the primary currency of 19 states within the Eurozone. But without a single economic model, the Euro is liable to fluctuate wildly, as it has done in the past. And that's just across 19 countries. Imagine trying to create a stable single-currency market across thousands of worlds with wildly disparate economic situations. Every new addition to the Federation would potentially open the Fed-Buck to total collapse.

So, for the most part we see Feds trading in goods. Something that has a quantifiable value. Even the Ferengi use what is essentially a stand in for Gold Bullion.

If there is any sort of everyday-currency in the Federation, it's likely linked to the energy output's of individual worlds and is effectively useless once you pass outside Fed jurisdiction. You could use your Fed-Cred to buy goods that you could then sell for latinum, goods or other currencies. But there is no direct exchange rate between them.

>>53018501
Hew-mons don't have the lobes for business.

>>53019477
Humans don't have the lobes for business the way we don't have the stomach for war.

Just ask the Klingon Empire, the Dominion and the Borg.

Listen up, you misogynistic orange worm, if we unleashed the likes of Jay Gould, Cornelius Vanderbilt and J.D. Rockefeller, the Ferengi Chamber of Commerce would be a profitable, but wholly-subsidiary of the Federation. And you should be thankful I named industrialists of the late 19th and early 20th century; if we unleashed the likes of our richest 1% of the late 20th- and early 21st-centuries, you would've been declared terrorists, bombed into the dirt, and an orange orangutan would be screeching about how he was gonna make you pay for it.


But no, we "don't have the lobes for business." Instead of sailing the Great River to bring that which is plentiful in one place to where we can sell it at the highest personal profit, we bring it to where it is most needed, and by doing all, WE ALL profit.

>>53019477
>Ferengi
>not being entirely reliant on the good will of neighbouring Empires to survive
>D'Kora shit more like

>>53020146
It's quite surprising that the Ferengi still exist, given their proximity to Breen space

>>53020646
The Ferengi have a very good method for dealing with the Breen: give them whatever they want, at whatever price they name.

>>53020802
That's probably the go-to agreement with everybody if they express any sort of interest in "acquiring" Ferenginar

>>53016926
>if STO is canon
???

>>53021131
It's not like glorifed armed cargo ships are going to fight off a REAL military, after all. The Ferengi aren't the Federation.

>>53019745
This is why there really, really needed to be an East India Trading Company equivalent in DS9.

Brunt becomes Grand Nagus and due to proximity to Breen space starts a very lucrative arms business selling to them.

Lolz we're still officially neutral Feds can't do shit. What you gonna do lobeless little human? Only option you have left is the market place and you can't into market.

Then the East Galactic Trading Company rises out of the blackness between the stars, some primeval terror to haunt the dreams of all Ferangi till the end of time.

By the end of the Dominion War the Ferangi were paying rent to be allowed to live on their own homeworld. They never realized that no regulation could bite them so hard in their collective assets.

The Chairman of the Company is now the Grand Nagus. And it's a human. And it's actually a chairwoman. The butthurt, it is eternal.

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ITT: we forget canon
Please remember that the D'Kora can make a pretty good fight against a Galaxy, and that Ferengi are devious and brave (greedy) enough to capture entire ships outnumbered 10+ to one. The Ferengi were feared marauders and pirates, even if any particular individual was a joke.

Did they ever explain who was destroying the Romulan and Fed outposts along the Neutral Zone in the last episode of season 1?

>>53024388
Oh Season 1 of TNG btw

>>53024388

It was going to be the parasites from Conspiracy, then turned into the Borg when the parasite storyline was dropped.

>>53024388
Borg.

>>53024547
Man it sucks they dropped that storyline. I quite liked the parasites. Any idea why they dropped it?

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What did you guys think of this?

I'm watching it now for the first time since the theater and I still really like it.
It feels more cheesy and low budget in a good way.
Feels more like TOS.

I'd say
ST '09>Beyond>ID

>>53024871
Blowing up the ship should be the climax of the plot (Search For Spock, Generations if the threat was greater), not the setup to the story.

>>53024963
>if the threat was greater
What did you mean by this?

>>53025030
Mainly just contrasting it with SFS. The destruction of the original Enterprise was the culmination of Kirk's own character development that started in Wrath of Khan as well as the main plot of SFS itself: Kirk faced a no-win scenario and had to sacrifice his ship in order to complete the mission and save his friend. The destruction of the Ent-D was because literally everyone on board the Enterprise had the idiot ball, including Picard. It was basically just poor writing to shoe-horn in an excuse to blow up the Ent-D and replace it.

>>53025126
Eh, SFS isn't isn't exactly a well written movie either.

And the Enterprise E is the sexiest ship in Trek.

>>53025171
I honestly think SFS was better written than Wrath of Khan, the latter just had far superior directing.

>>53010390
Landing in the shuttlebay must be a bitch.

>>53025214

Assuming you have to land and don't just get tractored in.

>>53024871
Better than the other 2 Reboot films by far and quite a lot of the pre-reboot films also. It actually felt in some strange way like a TOS film right down to the goofiness.

>>53025333
I like the 2009 one too.
The odd man out is Into Darkness.

It should have been the 2009 movie followed by their five year mission in Beyond.

>>53025261
Depends on who wrote the episode you're in. You either land it yourself or get tractored. Hopefully some shithead writer wrote it to where technology does everything for you and you don't have to bother knowing anything at all.

>>53023877
Did a D'Kora ever actually go toe to toe with the Enterprise? I know that they fought a few times, but it was often weighted heavily in the Ferengi's favour (Surprise attack, random space mcguffin, Picard choosing restraint, etc) and when it came to actually fighting, the Ferengi backed down pretty quick.

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>>52999978
Agreed.

Nothing the humans could ever make would be able to stand up to the presence and the aesthetic of Double D-chan.

>>53025126
>destroying the Enterprise was Kirk's solution to the Kobiyashi Maru
I never realized that until now.

>>53025901
>every time the Romulans wanted to make a credible threat against the Enterprise-D, they had to send TWO Warbirds or more

I've always taken that to mean the Galaxy actually outguns the D'deridex but not by enough that it can handle more than one at a time.

>>53026277
i always assumed it was clever (as in compared to klingons) romulan thinking, why send one ship and have a 50/50 chance when you can send two and get almost a 100% chance of winning.

>>53024674
Maybe they couldn't figure out how to make the parasites visually iconic and decided replace them with cyborgs instead?

>>53026361

More like they couldn't work out how to make giant insects on a budget so coated some guys in white paint then spray-painted whatever scraps where left around black and glued them to their faces.

>>53026309
That's my thinking: what self-respecting Romulan commander would willingly present their opponent with the chance for a fair fight?

>>53026425
I remember reading somewhere that they couldn't figure out how to make sufficiently creepy biological amalgams affordable at the time.
To be fair, digging through a construction store for cheap mechanical parts and tubing worked out pretty well for them.

>>53026523
Forget Romulan, what self respecting Captain puts "fair play" over success and the safety of their crew? The time that Picard had to cross onto the Romulan side of the neutral zone, he sure as ship brought a squadron of K'vorts as backup.

>>53027485
>>53026523
This is all true. It's just that I've seen a lot of people assume that a *single* Warbird heavily outguns the Galaxy simply because it's roughly twice the size of one, and that doesn't really fit the tactics we see used.

>>53027485
most klingons

>>53027598
I reckon they're roughly comparable.

>>53027874
Hence all those dead Klingons

>>53030152
At least they're happy about it

>>53030325

How can you know that? We've never seen Sto-vo-kor.

>>53019745
>t. butthurt bernout
You misunderstood the lesson of AR-558. It's not that humans decided not to be vicious cutthroat businessmen anymore, it's that commodities aren't worth anything anymore due to abundance. What few luxury items that lose their value if replicated can be traded for Latinum, and Starfleet offers enough Latinum to people stationed on DS9 that they can all live very well indeed. Why go private sector at that point? When the need arises, the knives and accountants come out.

Even O'Brien is able to work with the Orion syndicate when he has to, although the gain was intelligence and not money.

>>53030711
Also the fact that humans are involved in crime shows imo that basic living isn't as great as the Feds say it is.

>>53031342
I always imagined it's really great in an absolute sense, but it's also fairly bland and not all that tailored to individual taste. For that sort of stuff, you actually need to secure a bit of scratch.

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Captain Deanna Troi looked around the cabin she had been assigned. She rechecked the room number on her outsized reading PADD, then by asking the computer. She was standing in the doorway of an empty cabin. It wasn’t even a spartan, ordinary set of guest quarters, she wouldn’t have considered that to be empty. She had been assigned a cabin the size of the one she had enjoyed whilst a member of the senior staff aboard USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D, but it was four bare walls (one of which featured windows,) and a bare floor - not even carpet. She arranged to have herself assigned to the ship as a short-duration member of the crew, technically in an advisory position.

As she was wondering if this was some kind of way of making her particularly unwelcome, the room, which was fully lit, brightened a bit, as a transporter beam bit into the empty space. The new transporter materialization sequences were faster, but for her, they’d never really replace the blue waterfall she remembered from the Enterprise.

The transporter beam released its passenger, and Deanna found herself beholding a young, apparently human woman; albino from the look of her, with extremely pale skin, red eyes, and white hair. She was wearing a uniform in Operations colors; Troi’s eyes flicked up and down as the woman who had beamed into her cabin regained her bearings. In the split second it took the newcomer to do so, Troi had taken the measure of her; Ensign, in her early to mid twenties, wearing her hair in what was described as a pixie cut. She had a massive, non-regulation toolbelt wrapped around her waist, and Deanna’s eyes went wide as she recognized the grip of a hand phaser amongst the many tools. She looked back up; the younger woman had a relieved look on her face, and a sense of urgency - but no hostile intent - in her mind.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HhL-y24kkqGACM-WqQeGaZx8Lg05Uxf1cwif90jvnwA/edit?usp=sharing

>>53032328

"Take off your uniform, and lay on your back ensign!"

With a look of misery, the albino operations officer began to disrobe. She'd been dreading this. Captain Troi had a reputation for bizarre and inappropriate greetings. Starfleet Command might have intervened, but Troi's husband was a high ranking admiral, hero of Wolf 359 and Sector 001. Worse, Captain Troi's mother was Betazoid nobility.

As her jacket hit the floor, the ensign had one more flutter of anxiety. Scuttlebutt around Starfleet Academy was that Troi was originally a Counselor - a creative euphemism for "political officer" like that of the old Soviet "People's Commissariat".

Captain Troi was now very close. She gazed lasciviously while the ensign removed her trousers. The Captain had already dropped the shimmering curtain that had been her only garment. Those dark eyes penetrated the ensign, cold and flat and horrible from the deep hollows behind the targ's beak that she supposed one might generously call a nose.

The ensign's flesh shivered in the chill air of the Captain's suite. Her shirt was now on the deck, and she wanted to moan with terror. She almost lost what composure she had left when the Captain's hands began to wander the wrinkled and desiccated flesh of her own body, squeezing and caressing the spotted, blue-veined travesty of sagging mammaries that swung so pendulously above the crater of her navel.

Trembling, a mix of revulsion and terror and humiliation running through her, the ensign pulled her last remaining garment from around her ankles. Her limbs felt like lead, and her heart pounded with the desire to flee.

Let it be quick, she prayed. With any luck, sick bay or one of the bars aboard would have enough of something to drown out what was about to happen.

>>53032793

As the ensign lay on the cold, bare deck, Captain Troi scuttled close, ever closer. She took up the ensign's phaser with a betaloned hand, and her face split into a vicious grin.

"Do you know what fun we can have with a low stun setting?" The ancient captain touched the phaser's emitter to the ensign's flesh, and she convulsed with fright. "How long do you think it will take an empath to find your most... delicate spots?"

The ensign closed her eyes. She should never have transferred to the Ark Royal. Like nearly every Federation "experiment", this one was rapidly becoming the sort of shitshow that went into the history books. She could only hope the schematics for the neural neutralizer were in the replicator database. Otherwise, it was going to take liver killing amounts of alcohol to ever function as a member of the crew.

Crouching grotesquely above the deformed ensign, Captain Troi barked an order.

"Until my lower decks are ready to be inspected with a white glove, you'd best get to swabbing, my girl." The Captain's hoarse cackle filled the cabin, echoing hideously through the empty space. She began to lower herself toward the ensign's mouth.

Whimpering openly now, tears streaming down her pale cheeks, the Captain's wrinkled, bespotted, and dangerously overgrown nethers bore down, and down, and down.

In the tubes, a lone crewman, half feral, halted. There was a faint sound of screams mingled with terrible mirth. Not unusual on the Ark Royal. With a shrug, he bent once again to his work. The plasma mine would bake anything that came down to Junction 14, and protein would be back on the menu.

>>53033173

Elsewhere, in the bowels of the enormous Ark Royal, Crewman Martok Rozhenko was inspecting the livestock. Only a quarter human, and a quarter Klingon, what most noticed about him right away was his Cardassian heritage. That and the Borg implants he'd gotten from Aunt Seven.

A horrid stench cut through the normal unpleasantness, and Rozhenko followed it, wrinkling his scaly nose. The sight of it was enough to make a Vulcan squirm. Protein Synthesizer No. 2031 was definitely malfunctioning. Maybe even a lost cause.

Had it been standing and ambulatory, it would have been a three meter tall female Gorn, but Protein Synthesizer No. 2031, in addition to having no conscious mind or motor control beyond the autonomic, had no need of legs or arms. It was a bloated pale green trunk inside of a tank. Mercifully, there was no head - the creature's tiny brain was encased in a tank attached to the shoulders. Much more pleasant to look upon than the creature's natural "face", if the Starfleet Database were accurate.

Rozhenko ran his quadcorder over Synthesizer No. 2031. Uh oh. Definitely kaput. He noted it in his log, and opened the service hatch. Inside was a pair of thick gloves that resembled something called rubber, but were instead a hi-tech material that preventing organic material from passing through.

Ambling around to the front, Rozhenko bent down, and tapped out a code into the keypad. The egg chute door opened with a hiss. From there he visually inspected each egg, and then ran his quadcorder over them. Eight were within tolerance. The others were unfit for consumption.

The crewman retrieved a bag and then filled it with the good eggs. It had been a boon since Starfleet had solved the "Gorn Problem". Replicated proteins just didn't taste quite the same. He flushed the remaining eggs into space, and placed an "Out of Order" sign on No. 2031, with a notation that a waste extraction team would be needed next shift.

A new Synthesizer would be ordered.

>>53033594
aaaaand we just jumped over the shark with a dune buggy, landing in the depths of the magical realm.

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>>53034011

Jumped it with an Argo you mean.

>>53034148
Yes, thanks.

Admiral Rickover once drank a glass of reactor coolant on the floor of the US Senate to prove it was just water. What sort of equivalent ballsy stuff would an engineer have to do to get posted to the Ark Royal?

>>53035500

Use the replicator to turn a member of species 8472 into "UndineAid", and drink it in between belching the Federation's anthem.

>>53035701
You mean drinking the Fluidic Space goop?

>>53035778

Nah. That's smalltime. You want Soylent 8472. If the taste doesn't kill you, the wicked infection will. It takes a level of badass to survive it, or an EMH Mk. 1 on staff.

>>53035979
Don't forget the pitcher full of attenuated Borg nanoprobers.

>>53035500
You're over at >>>/k/33838567
aren't you?

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>>53033594

>>53032793
>>53033173
>>53033173
>>53033594
I... commend is the wrong word... but I congratulate you on your ability to create ad-hoc smut in such short order

>>53035500
You need to pull some proper oldschool Imperial age scientist shit. Like being 50/50 that you've rendered Borg nano-probes inert and then introduce them to your own bloodstream. Or flying your new proto-type shuttle through the coronasphere of a star, just to prove a point. Or basically anything that James Doohan did in real life.

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>>53040217

>smut

I guess the joke's on me, because I find none of it titillating or erotic... and I wrote it.

>>53038437

That's the reaction I was going for.

If only I had used this power for good, and not evil.

>>53032328
A lot less "out there" than I had feared. Nice work.

>>53037016
Caught me.

>>53027928
That seems to be the case. Much like how the D7 was supposed to be a match for the Connie.

>>53040992
Prove that the Breen can be reasoned with by transporting a dozen of them into the Federation council chambers

>>53045283

With or without their suits?

>>53045378
Half and half

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>>53032793
>>53033173
>>53033173
>>53033594

>>53042437
That's because unlike the other guy, I actually try to write good material, and not Warp 9.95 away from the established character of Deanna Troi. Or Reginald Barclay, for that matter.

>>53047145

You're the one who wanted something "fresh".

>>53045500
Aren't they made of ammonia? I doubt that'd end well for anyone involved

>>53049529

>tfw when the Breen so disrobed dump bleach on themselves and kill everyone in a suicide gas attack

>>53031415
There hs to be at least some incentive for people to leave Earth. Otherwise it'd be impossible for them to regularly colonise new wolds. Making city-living as banal as possible is probably a good way to go about doing that.

>>53050402
Well considering Earth is the capital of the Federation, it'll attract a ton of people wanting to move there either because they have jobs with Starfleet, the Federation, or other related agencies, or because they want to be close to those. That plus having to deal with the existing population, as well as a shit-ton of regulations for historical preservation and environmental reasons means Earth ends up becoming the Federation equivalent of San Francisco where it costs $10 mil just to get a shitty studio apartment. Except there's no currency so there's a wait list to live on Earth and when you get there good luck living in something larger than an apartment unless you inherited a vineyard. Notice how whenever we see someone actually living on Earth it's always in an apartment dwelling and not an actual house, with the sole exception of Picard's family and their aforementioned vineyard.

So if you're the kind of guy who doesn't like living in that kind of urban environment and just wants a nice house with a few acres of land, your only option is to leave Earth and go to a nice newly-settled M-class colony world.

>>53051108
That one DS9 episode that showed the future without Sisko (because he was rubberbanding through time), Jake was living in a house, though he was a famous author and it was in the middle of a swamp and nearly killed the college student girl that was trying to get to it.

I think you only get to own property if you're famous (Old Man Jake), inherited it through multiple generations (The Picard Winery) or are actively working it to the benefit of the public (Grandpa Sisko's Restaurant (though that may be an inherited thing too)).

>>53051108
>>53051871
Our sample population for Earth residents is fairly low. So it's hard to tell if all of Earth is like that or just the parts near major government/military facilities.

>>53024963
>They should do the exact same thing that has been done in previous movies because I have an irrational fear of change.

>>53052566
True.

>>53051871
I think Grandpa Sisko got the restaurant from pulling in strings from his admiral days.

>>53052566
There's plenty of countryside left on Earth. If somebody wants to build on it I'm sure they can. But, with technology that can allow you to travel basically anywhere in the world i a few minutes, the majority of people choose to live in areas of convenience, rather than picturesque countryside.

>>53024963
I thought it worked well. The story was at least somewhat fresh in that regard.

>>53025689
Same as the D'deridex and a lot of other starships in TNG. They very rarely had actual fights to completion. They'd have n exchange and then stop for a rousing round of accusations and unreasonable demands.

>>53056415

Admiral Cartwright turns state evidence against the conspirators in return for protective custody?

>http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Cartwright

>>53063114
He'd have to be well over 100 by the time of DS9, at least

>>53064881
UFP medical care at it's finest.

>>53064881

Not that I actually think it's possible that Papa Sisko and Cartwright are the same person (beyond having been played by the same actor), but McCoy was 137 in Encounter at Farpoint.

Living to a ripe old age is apparently a normal thing in the Federation.

>http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Leonard_McCoy

>>53064926
Available to loyal citizens, enemies of the state and traitors alike. Just so long as you aren't an augment.

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>>53064881
>>53064978
and every body knows black don't crack

>>53064987
Cartwright was a loyal citizen though.

Everything he said made perfect sense.

The Klingons should not have had the olive branch held out to them so readily after they had spent centuries being insufferable cunts.

Trust needs to be earned.

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>>53065174
You can make sense and still be the villain.

Cartwright was not the good guy.

>>53065174
At the same time, kicking someone while they're already down is not a good way to earn their trust. Peace is a two-way process, and you can't expect them to try to earn your trust if you won't do the same.

And that's not getting into the inherent hypocrisy of his position, in that he was willing to work with the Klingons in a conspiracy that encompassed the three largest political bodies of that area (Romulan ambassador was in on it as well) yet was unwilling to work with the Klingons for peaceful purposes.

>>53065621
Cartwright did nothing wrong.

>>53065876
Why the fuck would we care about earning their trust?

At that point they needed us. We didn't need them.

They had spent centuries being insufferable cunts to us. We had been very patient with them for a very long time.

Working with dissident factions within the enemy nation to secure the safety of the UFP and it's citizens is perfectly acceptable.

>>53066055
And then you have a nation full of people who still hate you, still want you dead, and will remember that you can't be trusted, ever, when they eventually build themselves back up. You need to look at the big picture.

>>53066095
Only temporarily. They were dying.

And we could be trusted. They had just done nothing to earn that trust despite having centuries to meet the minimal requirements of "don't be a dick".

There is no moral obligation to offer sanctuary to those who have actively tried to fuck your shit up when they fuck themselves up.

>>53066055
>Working with dissident factions within the enemy nation to secure the safety of the UFP and it's citizens is perfectly acceptable.

By starting a war? A war that, by all estimates would cost billions of Federation citizen's lives. A war that the Klingons might just win if they act quickly enough. A war that the Klingons need to win, in order to survive as a people.

It's one thing to reject an enemy's offer for peace in a time of crises. It's an entirely different prospect to force that enemy into a corner so that their only recourse is war against you. Especially one that has comparable strength to you.

>>53066213
>Especially one that has comparable strength to you.

Not for long without their homeworld.

One last war to burn Space Somalia to the ground and never again have to worry about them. In the long run it was the only sensible answer.

>>53066173
The Federation can be trusted? To the Klingons they're an enemy that they've fought with for centuries, and when the Empire was at its most vulnerable and when the Chancellor had actually advocated for peace talks, the Federation instead swooped in and utterly crushed the Klingons. We're not just talking about maintaining the status quo or denying aid to refugees, Cartwright wanted to, in his own words, "bring them to their knees." That's a wonderful way to get bands of scattered Klingons going full durkajihad on the Federation until the entire species goes extinct. Instead the Federation took up the peace offering, and gained a new ally.

>>53066282
>Not for long without their homeworld.

Hence the whole "the sooner we attack, the better" mentality being adopted by Chang. He needs to take Gorkon out of the picture and force his successor into a war. And Cartwright and pals pretty much did all the work for him.

>>53066339
And once more the UFP shits on the customs and traditions of the lesser races.

You don't accept the women and children of a dwindling house into your own until you've given it's warriors a beautiful death.

>>53065876
>>53066095
>earning trust
>from Klingons
Klingons don't trust, as a people, based on what the same things 21st Century Westerners base their trust on. Klingons trust (perceived) strength, and that only. Even in TNG times, when they were supposedly allied with the Federation, any individual ship captain would fear the Klingons, if they showed up, because the Klingons were inherently untrustworthy, since all they respect is, again, perceived strength. BTFO of the klingons would earn their respect and trust, not their hate. Extending a hand to them in their moment of weakness, when they knew they hadn't earned it (by both their standards, and the Federation's), would only be seen as a sign of inherent weakness, if not foolishness. It was the self-sacrifice and bravery, in battle, of the Ent-C that created the alliance that existed in TNG, not the aid given after Praxis.

>>53065961
>Let the Romulans know about and take part in his plan to start a war between the Star Empire's 2 greatest rivals

>>53066485
In that instance they could be relied on to side with the UFP based on them hating the Klingon Empire more.

>>53066387
>>53066411
Even if you assume that 23rd century Klingon culture is the same as 24th century Klingon culture (it clearly isn't), the Klingons were the ones who asked for peace talks to begin with. They knew they were fucked and wanted to at least preserve their independence and culture in the hopes that future generations could rebuild the Empire to glory.

>"Destroying an Empire to win a war is no victory. And ending a battle to save an Empire is no defeat."

>>53066532
>future generations could rebuild the Empire to glory.
And why the ever living fuck would the Federation ever want that?

>>53066554
Because they want those future generations to be friendly.

>>53066387
The original bible for TNG said that the Klingons had suffered some calamity that forced them to join the Federation and the Empire such as it is has never really recovered. It also seems to have picked up the separatist states from FASA too.

>>53066568
"If we help Soviet Mongolian Empire in SPAAAAAAAACE!!!! rebuild they might be friends with us" is not nor ever will be a good idea based on past experience.

You know what's better than them maybe being friends? Them definitely not being a threat.

If they wanted to be friendly they had the previous 150+ years to do it in.

>>53066652
It was clearly retconned/amended.

>>53066699
Clearly, but it could have been the basis of something that filtered down to Star Trek VI. Or the movie is just a Cold War analogy. 15/85.

>>53066680
Unless you're advocating genocide, in which case fuck off you're not part of the Federation, then there will always be future Klingon generations. If you want them to be perpetually hostile because you have a boner for being a warhawk then go right ahead, but considering the Federation was founded as the result of two bitter enemies becoming peaceful and eventually allies there's more than enough evidence to show that you're a moron.

>>53066511
I don't like any plan that relies on Romulans to to be compliant. And I don't think the Romulans hate the Klingons more than the Federation. They have a very good reason to hate Earth, as the people they lost a war to. Only a few years prior, they had some sort of technological trade agreement with the Klingon Empire. It's just as likely that they'll side with the Klingons.

I figure the Romulans are only ever going to act out of self interest, anyway. So let's think this through. Kirk fails and the War begins. 1 of 3 things happen:

>1 The Klingons crumble agains the UFP and begin to retreat into their own space.
This is the most likely scenario for the Romulans Backing the Federation. At this point, their primary objective is seizing strategic objectives to deny the Federation their use. What follows is a long and tense cold war between the UFP and RSE.

>2 Neither side gains ground. the border is awash with violent clashes.
The Romulans do effectively nothing. Their 2 greates enemies are killing each other in droves, wasting resources and lives while the Star Empire prospers and grows more powerful. If there is a change in fortunes, they will act to aquire territory. But so long as the Feds and Klingons are focused on one another, they are less likely to interfere in Romulan expansionism.

>3 The Klingons break the Federation border defences and begin a long, bloody march towards Earth
Without a shadow of a doubt, the Romulans invade the Fedration. They're ready for this, they have a decent working relationship with the Klingons. They know the Empire is wounded, perhaps mortally so. If the Romulans paly their cards right they could end up ruing all 3 empires, but they will certainly settle for brutal vengeance upon the Vulcans and Humans for their respective humiliations of the Romulan people.

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>>53066718
The Federation was founded by former adversaries banding together to defeat an outside threat.

And it's not genocide.

They were already dying because they assploded their own moon. I'm advocating just not helping a hostile warmongering nation recover from a self inflicted wound.

Take in refugees once they are so broken they pose no threat by all means. In that state they would probably respond more readily to attempts to civilize them.

If I was going to advocate genocide it would be against the Nausicaans.

>>53066830
The issue was what Cartwright wanted, which was to continue to fuck them up even after they had assploded their own moon. Your own personal idea is irrelevant to this conversation.

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>>53066751
Really?

The Romulans knew we had Genesis weapons. And there was no way for them to be sure we only had the one. Not totally sure. Not "Bet the entire Empire" levels of sure.

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>>53066874
Fuck them up so that they could never recover to a point where they could go back to fucking your shit up like they had previously been doing.

>>53066830
Cartwrights plan doesn't get you a passive extinction or whatever you want to call it. It gets you a shooting war while the Klingons still have the resources to inflict serious damage.

In the short-to-mid-term, negotiating with the Klingons is ultimately better for the Federation. Every day that the Klingons and UFP are hammering out a tangible deal is a day that the Imperial Navy is closer to critical failure. A weakened Klingon state, reliant on the Federation for support is highly unlikely to pose a serious threat if the chooses to go to war.

>>53066511
They could also be relied upon to sit back and take copious notes on the Federation's latest military hardware. By the time the Klingon Empire was smashed and the myriad insurgent houses had run out of cloaked gunboats to kamikaze Starfleet vessels with, there'd be a shiny new Romulan armada ready to sweep in and claim every planet and installation the UFP was too worn down to contest.

The past two decades of modern world politics should show that all-out "preemptive" strikes on a self-governing entity are a fucking mistake (or a front for someone's personal agenda) in a stage full of political players. You're spending resources to kill a LOT of people and hardware, which limits your defensive capabilities and demands diversion from other projects to replenish while other political bodies carry out their work around you. Then you're left with the choice of sticking around for the next couple generations to help them rebuild like any would-be conqueror with half a brain, or leaving their people in the rubble to scrape their lives back together in the seething knowledge that you're the ones who fucked their entire civilization over and a burning eagerness to throw their lot in with anyone who decides to oppose you in the future.

>>53066906
All the more reason to strike quickly, while Starfleet is distracted by oncoming Klingon forces. If they seize enough territory quickly enough, the likelihood of a genesis torpedo getting used on Romulan citizens diminishes severely.

>>53066981
>leaving their people in the rubble to scrape their lives back together in the seething knowledge that you're the ones who fucked their entire civilization over and a burning eagerness to throw their lot in with anyone who decides to oppose you in the future.

Irrelevant if you are so far above the lesser "civilizations" that they can't pose an actual threat.

>>53066972
And every day the Empire is reliant on the Federation for support is a day the Federation can influence the culture and political climate of the Empire. The Federation and Picard specifically was trusted enough to choose the next Chancellor after K'mpec died. The Empire only went to war after being infiltrated by a Changeling and after the Federation had refused to aid them in war with the Cardassians, and even that lasted less than a year before they were right back at each others' sides. Klingons talk a big game about how they're more honorable and better warriors than the weak Federation but deep down they know the Federation kicked their asses before, could kick their asses if ever they actually felt like it, and only choose not to because they prefer peace and mutual strength.

>>53066934
Accomplished how, exactly?
>Lazy Genocide: smash military fleets, obliterate their cities from orbit, leave
There's no way you took out all of their people and technology, but hey that gift basket from the Romulans with the "thanks for the free real estate" card was nice

>Actual Genocide: obliterate their cities, park forces and colonists to "clean up" and take over their planets
Congratulations your "exploration fleet" is stretched thin and easy prey for the Romulans, not to mention all the spaceborne Klinks itching for a glorious end to both your lives and all the more pacifistic charter planets that are telling Earth where to stick their moral high ground

>Negotiation with a side of Cultural Integration: make nice, slap down warmongers politically, let their damaged economy strip down military excess by itself
You now have a semi-crippled but conciliatory former enemy potentially willing to do things like trade and combine forces using all that advanced industry you didn't turn into rubble, and carte blanche to flash your big diplomatic dick at the rest of the Alpha Quadrant

>>53067064
Since when is the Federation circa STVI an unstoppable cosmic juggernaut?
Star Trek channels HFY by making humans adaptable and resourceful, not by doing chest-thumping impressions of totalitarian states.

>>53067481
>Since when is the Federation circa STVI an unstoppable cosmic juggernaut?

Since it developed a weapon that could kill a planet in a single shot.

>>53067533

Here's the thing about the Genesis Effect:
It can be made with off-the-shelf transporter equipment. OTS transporter shit that EVERYBODY has.

All it takes is one cloaked recon vessel with survey sensors getting a good, deep look at you deploying a Genesis Device for them to go "Oh, doy!" and build their own.

> Cloaked Rommie/Klink ships with Genesis Torpedoes
>> You recall that transporters can be used from cloaked ships, right?
>>> The Rommies and Klinks now have an unstoppable superweapon they can deploy with absolutely sweet fuckall in terms of warning.
>>>> GG no re.

>>53067533
And at the end of the day you have a doomsday weapon that needs to be delivered from within the same system. So you you want to blow up Romulus or Quo'nos you have to punch through the entire enemy fleet and hope they don't destroy your delivery package on route.

And even then we're all avoiding the fairly obvious elephant in the room. We're talking about the Federation. The good, upstanding federation that signs treaties to prevent the use of thelaron and subspace weaponry. The same kind of planet killing category that the Genesis torpedo falls under.

Do you really think that the Federation is going to ever deploy something like the Genesis torpedo as anything other than a last-possible-hope weapon? All it can ever be used as is an anti planetary weapon. And that inherently points towards an anti civilian usage. That, in Federation terms, just ain't cricket.

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>>53067787
>All it can ever be used as is an anti planetary weapon.

Manifestly untrue. Go and watch The Wrath of Khan again.
Genesis Device will fuck a ship's shit up super-royally. See also: Pic Related, Demise Thereof.


Hell, there's a really, really good bit entitled "The Genesis Report" in the book "The Genesis Wave, Book 1," wherein someone actually dredges up Project Genesis and does a detailed analysis of its potential as an antiborg weapon.
Their conclusion was that it would an extremely effective trump card against the Borg, as one Genesis Device would easily wreck a Borg Tactical Cube, and it would be EVEN MORE EFFECTIVE used against the Federation by the Borg, and that at all costs the Borg must be prevented from assimilating knowledge of the Genesis Effect.

>>53067950
The Enterprise was only in danger because they couldn't outrun the shock-wave without warp drive. So against a hostile fleet, you can't rely on it to take them all out, especially once they are aware of the weapon's existence.

Targeted against an individual ship it could be of greater use, but that seems like overkill.

>>53067950
>Borg cube gets a nice thorough scan of the Genesis wave buildup
>DODGING IS IRRELEVANT
Best case scenario, they already knew protomatter could do that and they just deem unstable rearrangement of matter to be wasteful and inefficient.

Otherwise, the Collective just got a big slice of technological distinctiveness handed to them free of charge and can now tinker with the ability to reshape entire celestial bodies at their leisure.

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>>53068156
Maxim 37, Anon. Maxim 37.

>>53010488
Hnnnnnnnnnnngh

>>53068229
I humbly disagree. Using a genesis torpedo to kill a K'tinga would be like using a nuke to take out a single missile cruiser.

>>53066680
Killing off the Klingons might have ended very badly for the Federation.
>Klingons all dead by 2230s
>Romulans declare war and invade
>Federation takes significant losses but wins by the 2350s
>now stretched far too thin to reasonably patrol even with the shipyards cranking out as many Mirandas, Constellations, Excelsiors, Ambassadors, and other ships as they can
>Galaxy class program delayed in order to get more ships overall deployed
>no Enterprise D available to meet the Borg and start preparing
>Federation doomed after either Wolf 359 or the Dominion War

>>53068877
I'm inclined to disregard future events as a justification for supporting the Klingos, even if I think it was, more or less, the right decision.

Because assisting them could also have led to the Federations eventual destruction, as "Yesterday's Enterprise" shows.

>>53069064
"Yesterday's Enterprise" happened because the Ent-C didn't assist the Klingons. It was going back in time to finish the fight against the Romulans that helped secure the peace.

And at any rate, being wary of the Romulans is more than enough justification even without getting into future events. The Federation, Klingons and Romulans are the three major powers of the area, and the Romulans would like nothing more than for the Federation and Klingons to be eternally warring with each other. Aiding the Klingons and getting them back on their feet as allies puts a huge check against Romulan aggression. Why do you think the Romulan ambassador was in on the conspiracy in the first place? Wouldn't surprise me if it turned out he was the one playing everyone else.

>>53068503
I know, right?

>>53068725
> Maxim 37
>> There is no "Overkill."
>>> There is "Open Fire" and "Reloading!"

You are hereby ordered to attend one (1) week of penitentiary kitchen patrol. Report to Cynthetic Certainty, Deck 3 Room 4, where you are to man the OVALKWIK mixing station.

Better hurry, there's a hungry, hungry amorph awaiting his Refreshing Ovalkwik Energy Paste.

>>53069190
>"Yesterday's Enterprise" happened because the Ent-C didn't assist the Klingons. It was going back in time to finish the fight against the Romulans that helped secure the peace.

And the Dominion war, Borg conflict etc rely heavily and what happened after the Khitomer accords. Point is, the people at the time wouldn't have had access to information regarding events a century later, so I tend to disregard it.

>>53069377
Actually, ENT implies they did. Starfleet kept the contents of Daniels's locker after ENT, and that had complete specs for the Excelsior so we know intel from the period survived.

>>53069377
Yes, and the point of the rest of my post is that even without foreknowledge of future events, supporting the Klingons was still the smart decision at the time.

>>53069423
That's a bootstraps paradox. If Starfleet are using future specs for the excelsior that only exist because the future have records of them from the past, then who originally designed the Excelsior?

I'm inclined to side with Temporal Investigations and say fuck time travel and all the horseshit that comes with it.

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>>53066751
>but they will certainly settle for brutal vengeance upon the Vulcans and Humans for their respective humiliations of the Romulan people.
This just got me thinking. We have heard about Romulan-Vulcan reunification, but always in the terms of the Romulans reuniting with the Vulcans, but why not the other way around? Romulans invade the Federation in order to "liberate" their distant cousins, the Vulcans. Are their Romulan operatives a la Spock on Vulcan pushing for reunification with Romulus (aside from the Tal Shiar that are probably there)? We seen Vulcans side with the Maquis, so why not Vulcans that side with the RSE?

>>53069577

>Romulan agents working toward reunification on Vulcan

Yes. We see this in ENT.

>>53069577
>Romulans invade the Federation in order to "liberate" their distant cousins, the Vulcans.
That was pretty much the plot of Reunification. Romulans (and by Romulans I mean Sela) trying to bamboozle everyone so they can waltz in and occupy Vulcan without anyone noticing.

I'd imagine the main difference would simply be that the Vulcans are one planet among many in the Federation, and one of the core worlds at that, whereas the Romulans are mainly the Romulans with everyone else being servitors. If the Romulans decide they want reunification, that's it, there's peace. If the Vulcans decide they want reunification, it would require them to leave the Federation and essentially be a Romulan enclave within the Federation. I'd imagine Vulcan has more to lose by leaving the Federation than they have to gain by joining the Romulans, so it wouldn't be the logic thing to do, even if there are Vulcans who want their wayward cousins to reunify.

>>53069577
I like that as an idea. For the most part, I figure the Romulans are a sort of Vulcan augment. Their society seems to reflect the Nietzschean ideology that Roddenberry attributed to Khans augments as well. But mostly I feel their wildly divergent physiology over such a short period of separation must lean towards genetic augmentation.

Perhaps some Vulcans feel that it is logical to side with the species which is, in essence, an evolution of their own.

>>53069577
well there was that one that wanted to rebuild the Vulcan psyonic resonator or some bullshit to bring around a non Federation Vulcan but i don't think she was at least knowingly working for or with the Romulans

>>53069673
Yeah, I remember that as well, but I meant in the TNG+ era.
>>53069685
I meant as an actual reunification as opposed to a Romulan plot to just invade Vulcan, i.e. Vulcan actually welcoming the Romulans, not them sneaking in the back door.

>>53069755
>I meant as an actual reunification as opposed to a Romulan plot to just invade Vulcan, i.e. Vulcan actually welcoming the Romulans, not them sneaking in the back door.
See the second part of my post then.

>>53069577

Depends on whether a Vulcan could conclude that it's logical to want to side with the RSE.


Vulcan, the planet and society, if you think about it, is kind of a crazy-totalitarian state. Everything is governed by "Logic," but if you logically conclude the "wrong" thing, you're clearly mentally ill, educationally deficient, or some combination thereof.

I.E., concluding that violence is the logical recourse in the situation you find yourself in.


The thing that always bugged me, though, is that "Logic" is neither the beginning nor the end of a moral framework. It is only a means of evaluation, but Trek - or rather, the dogma of Surak - TREATS it as a moral framework, but it isn't. They attached a whole bunch of shit that masquerades as part of logic but is not - for instance, the vegetarianism. Vegetarianism MAY be logical, but it may not; it depends on your circumstances, and whether or not you consider morale (in this case, deriving enjoyment from eating a delicious steak) important.

Mind you, this isn't a thing that makes me point at Trek and shake my head, it's a thing that I see as being in-setting horrifying, but totally should exist in-setting. The Vulcans kind of are just as totalitarian as the Romulans or the Cardassians, they just go about it in a different way. Instead of a Tal Shiar or an Obsidian Order, they have a Vulcan Mental Health Service that "corrects" anyone who is believed to be "logically deficient."

>>53069755
>I meant as an actual reunification as opposed to a Romulan plot to just invade Vulcan, i.e. Vulcan actually welcoming the Romulans, not them sneaking in the back door.
That would be interesting. Would the Romulan Star Empire be interested in Federation membership? It would mean some pretty impressive upheavals and a partial surrender of sovereignty. On the other hand, that's how you get Starfleet's legendary wizard-engineers serving aboard D'Deridex-class warships. Don't you want Starfleet Engineers working on D'Ds?

>>53069799
>Vulcan, the planet and society, if you think about it, is kind of a crazy-totalitarian state. Everything is governed by "Logic," but if you logically conclude the "wrong" thing, you're clearly mentally ill, educationally deficient, or some combination thereof.
This is entirely headcanon, and moreover headcanon that doesn't even make sense with what's shown in hard canon.

>>53069858
Not quite. In ENT, we see T'Pol get threatened with career ending disgrace basically just because she wouldn't admit that she was mind-raped. The concept that someone would mind-meld at all was so abhorrent that curing a telepathically transmitted disease was expressly forbidden.

Similarly, the Siranites are deemed dangerous malcontents for believing in a different logical path.

Subjectivism is an actual sticking point for their einture society and that's a bit fucked up.

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>>53070908
>>53070908
>>53070908
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