/osrg/ OSR General

>>52955671
Weapon specialization?

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>>52955971
>How was your world created?

The Lords of Law emerged from cosmos and settled to a new, undeveloped world. From the primordial ooze they drew and evolved mankind, and many other races and creatures, into a perfect world of their design, where all had its place and the nature revolved like clockwork.

They taught all the people their own perfect "language of Law", which is why common tongue is spoken just about everywhere, even without an accent.

We speak that language in our world too, but because this is a far more chaotic place than my setting was in its primordial origins, the language of Law isn't very popular. It's Esperanto.

Of course, eventually Chaos busted in and started to wreck shit.

>>52955971
No one knows definitively. Each religion has it's own creation myths but know one has ever met a god and was able to return to say except those who apparently appear in religious texts/stories, and all of those are fairly contradictory.

>Running LotFP in a magical version of 1640 our world

>>>52956069 It's Esperanto
Law is the OPFOR? Weird.

Forsake your false editions and retroclones, for True AD&D™ has the only claim on your game and claim on your soul.

>>52955971
All gods spawned from Chaos

Mostly they got destroyed by Chaos as well, but eventually some spawned, survived, and organized, and bound Chaos within a corporeal prison so they could rest easy in a more lawful universe. The gods mostly stay in their outer 'paradises' (the term is relative) and use mortal delegates to keep an eye on the prison, since mortals reproduce and maintain themselves without the gods having to expend their own energy to maintain them as they would for divine servitors. like angels.

That prison is the world, and spontaneously occurring dungeons, monsters, non-divine magic. are all symptoms of Chaos corrupting and eroding its prison.

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>>52956404

>>52956003
That's basically what I was getting at with option B, letting them train up a weapon or train an advanced maneuver to decrease the penalty.
Anyone can try to disarm or trip, or whatever like that they wanna try to do, but it just has a -4 penalty.
The idea is that over time fighters would become able to do those advanced maneuvers more efficiently than anyone else, and/or become really really proficient with one or two weapons.

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>>52955971
Aww, you fuckers made a PDF of my dungeon, and then made it the OP image? That's so sweet.

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>>52956527
Aaaand then I read the filename.

...

>>52955621

I'm eventually going to build my own PDF, with some preamble notes and stuff, but for now this is pretty darn good.

>>52955971
> How was your world created?
In the beginning the Deity Major said "Let there be a world". Then he said "Let each hex of the world have a terrain type". And so it was.

>>52921562
>>52923369
Still absorbing the ACKS endgame rules.

High level ACKS M-Us get these abilities:

* research spells
* creating magical items
* a few high level "ritual spells"
* creating constructs
* creating crossbreeds
* creating undead

This is fine. How magic items and some monsters come into existence has been explained. But just treat them as spells like any other. For example, make "research magic" and "create magical item" 3rd level spells if you want (as ACKS does) M-Us to acquire those abilities at 5th level.

On the rules for castle construction, why just a list of structures and GP values? Make the players hire labor, both skilled and unskilled. Make them calculate the amount of stone they need to quarry and how much hewn timber they need. Make them find sources for those materials and transport the materials to the site Distance to the sources will determine cost. If they need to have the castle built by a certain time, then make them plan everything out and find opportunities to do things in parallel. If there are oversights, make sure their schedule slips when the oversights are discovered.

You guys ever have the player's map out the dungeon as they go along? Any advice on how best to handle it?

>>52955971
>How was your world created?
The first thing realized that it was an infinite maze, so it set out to build itself.

>>52957631
>You guys ever have the player's map out the dungeon as they go along?
It took me a second to realize what you asked, because the thought of doing it any other way is absurd.
>Any advice on how best to handle it?
There will be at least one spastic autist in your group who draws catharsis from drafting organized lines.
Tell your group to pick a mapper, and they will volunteer themselves. Then describe rooms and passages.

>>52954392
>I doubt the Dwarves commissioned the magic door.
But they literally did that, you dingbat. That's why it has Elf writing all over it!

>>52957505
>On the rules for castle construction, why just a list of structures and GP values? Make the players hire labor, both skilled and unskilled. Make them calculate the amount of stone they need to quarry and how much hewn timber they need. Make them find sources for those materials and transport the materials to the site Distance to the sources will determine cost. If they need to have the castle built by a certain time, then make them plan everything out and find opportunities to do things in parallel. If there are oversights, make sure their schedule slips when the oversights are discovered.

Someone get a priest, he is possessed by Gygax!

Dingbat (AC between 4 and 8; HD 1+2; MV 55' (flight); #AT 1; D 1d4; SA extinguish torch 1%/round/bat (as bat); SD -2 AC in swarm (as bat), 1-in-6 chance Feeblemind when hit; Save T1; ML 7; AL N)

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>>52958371
> walks into castle store and takes 2,500gp out of purse. Merchant hands over Rampart, earthen (10' high, 100' long, 15' thick).
awesome roleplay anon

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>>52957505

So you're saying use this book?

I've used that book.

>>52957631
That's part of the rules for most OSR games. Hand them a sheet of graph paper and describe the rooms, make sure to mix dimensions with the room descriptions.

There's an AD&D (?) play example that illustrates describing maps, but it's very mechanical: "The next room runs ten feet north from the entrance, then twenty feet east, then there's a door, then it runs another ten feet, then..."

Remember that the mapper probably has an eraser, and it doesn't have to be exact. Filling in details and correcting mistakes is a good way to fill dead time. Plus what >>52958206 said, chances are in a group of 4+ people, one of them will like mapping. Reinforce that it's useful.

>>52958632
Cook makes it fairly obvious it takes time as well as money. Do you really want to act out or roll Charisma for every time a contractor gets involved?

Plus that section has a lot of "DM decides" and "if the DM approves" moments that could make for potential adventuring. It's not as simple as going to the Plot of Land Store then the Monster Extermination Shop then the Castle Outlet and voilà, a day later you have a stronghold.

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>>52958691
>There's an AD&D (?) play example that illustrates describing maps,
Little Brown Books, actually. It's the /original/ example of play.

>>52958793
>>52958691
All this business about castle building has got me wondering

>You reach the fortress building level of play
>You hire a bunch of laborers and slaves
>You have all the materials you'll need
>Now what?

How do you choose where to put a castle? Where would YOU out it? What would you use it for, exactly?

>>52958840
>Where would YOU out it?
Depends on how the CHAINMAIL campaign is going.
>What would you use it for, exactly?
The CHAINMAIL campaign.

>>52958857
Where in the CHAIN MAIL campaign would you put it, based on your current knowledge?

What would you use it for within the CHAIN MAIL campaign?

Hello everyone. About to run my first long term campaign. And I have decided on running Stonehell + B2 Keep of the Borderlands. Replacing the Caves of Chaos with Stonehell.

Was wondering if if any of the other DMs here could provide your favorite resources to running a game. Specifically a megadungeon.

Mainly looking for tables that you find yourself referencing the most.

>>52957505
>Make the players hire labor, both skilled and unskilled.
you do have to hire labor, including an engineer

the gp price is just for the materials
and the game does have rules for increasing price of materials based on market prices

>>52955971
My main world was the remains of several worlds that were destroyed and then locked in magical orbit around each other. I based it on some really crappy books but I knew that in game or in universe either way it would be a fun concept and I've linked every game and campaign I've run to it in subtle and not so subtle ways. The players seem to get a kick out of seeing their old retired (omg I thought the monk died!) characters have a cameo in the game. One became a per. Another became a domain Lord of Ravenloft! She took the werewolves domain iirc.
Yes I always bother with that setting element. I don't know why sometimes but for me personally I enjoy seeing things I created being brought to life in the game, even if it's just a new spell or the umpteenth intelligent two-handed sword. I throw random stuff in too just to keep everyone, including myself, guessing!

>>52955971
>How was your world created?
doesn't matter
there's dungeons, there's dragons, you have a sword, a shovel, a 10ft pole, and a bunch of sacks. Go become rich

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>>52958932
I don't play CHAINMAIL, I was just being facetious.
Bear in mind, >>52958857 /is/ the reason name level characters originally got Strongholds.

>>52957631
And here's the very first example dungeon.
Notice how 3 of the set-pieces specifically say, "added this just to piss off mappers lol ex-dee"

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>>52958933
I like this one for useful random stuff to leave laying around so the players have things to mess with.

>>52959432
This is great. Exactly the kind of stuff I am looking for.

Thanks

>>52955971
Going to run an old school session in a few hours. I have LOTFP but I haven't read the referee book. Should I switch to B/X?
Which is the simplest and most deadly?

>>52958688
http://archmagev.com/2nd_Ed/TSR%202114%20-%20DMRG2%20-%20Castle%20Guide.pdf

I see merit in the "Castle Modules Table" on p. 54 with its 34 castle components and their "tech", "time", and "gold" values.

The rest of this supplement looks thin. Is there anything else I should pay attention to?

>>52959532
>Should I switch to B/X?
It's pretty much the same.
If you mix up rules by mistake, no one will notice.
>Which is the simplest?
Huh ...probably LotFP?
>and most deadly?
And again, the same.

>>52958840
>How do you choose where to put a castle?
Most defensible place in the fief/the area you want to control. Hills or other prominences, rivers, coasts are good starting points.

>What would you use it for, exactly?
Territory control and defense, base for raids, staging point for larger strategic maneuvers are the basic categories. In a medieval technological context (the only one where castles make military sense) defending a strong point is much, much easier than assaulting one, so once you have a castle up even a modest garrison can tie up a stupid number of enemy troops -- or if they just pass by the castle the garrison can make sorties against the baggage train, supply lines etcetera and fuck the enemy's shit up to a preposterous degree *while simultaneously resupplying*. (There's a parallel here to how personal armor is more effective than weapons, which is why guys clonking around in metal suits is another one of the defining features.)

Basically, once you have the castle, the nearby territory is now yours de facto, and anyone who wants to contest that is going to have to get into a drawn-out assymetric fight in which he expends far more resources than you do. This is the case even for simple wooden castles, which is why the first big wave of castle building in England, for example, was right after the Norman conquest -- the invaders shoring up their power in the country.

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>>52959516
I liked these too. I use the tables in Hubris for weird hexcrawling, Stars Without Number (especially Dead Names) and the AD&D dmg's appendix tables. There's a lot of neat shit there that's easy to use and convert.

>>52959516
Oh and Yoon-Suin. It would be hard not to come up with something useful from Yoon-Suin.

>>52959755
>>52959782
Yes! Yoon-Suin, I have been going through it so much. Luckily, I own a physical copy so I have that on hand at all times. This stuff is great, really appreciate it.

I love having stuff at the table to just roll on and go from there.

>>52958414
Better than the cockbat.

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How does /osrg/ feel about Zendikar?

>>52958933
You wouldn't happen to have a link to stonehell?

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>>52961265
Did you check the Trove?

>>52961394
I did not, but thanks.

Is there some easy way to search mega folders? Since a lot of stuff is nested inside other stuff.

>>52961508
There /is/ a search function, but I have no idea where.
I've heard it's really shit though. Especially for nested folders.

The mega is pretty well organized though.
As long as you know what the thing you're looking for is, it's not hard to reach the folder it should be in.

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>>52959124
Admirable attitude. If it doesn't affect the game, it doesn't matter.

Want to invent fabulous elven kingdoms? Cool. Make them gamable or fuck off and write a novel. An entire pantheon? Cool. Are your players going to interact with it or care? No? Then into the trash it goes.

If you're writing a generic setting guide, sure, throw stuff in. But if you're designing from the bottom up, skip world building beyond the basics aspects that affect /your/ game.

https://youtu.be/mdo5ErnXH3E
https://youtu.be/116JEVCIAsk
https://youtu.be/daksqex8zUE

>>52962068
>Lindybait

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>>52962068

>some Britbong's hot opinions

>>52957631
Generally speaking tactical combat using squares and/or miniatures is near incompatible with detailed player mapping - at the very least, you can't use the player map for that. Consider a separate battle sheet that can be quickly customized to fit the terrain at hand.

Player mapping comes also on a spectrum of detail. On one end are quick flowchart style maps where players are simply keeping track of where they've been and the exits; on the other hand are full on attempts to get everything on graph paper in faithful dimensional recreation.

If you are letting players map you may want to adjust your descriptions to make best use of the intended mapping style. Dimensions are of course important in the graph paper style, whereas exit orientations are generally of higher importance in the flowchart style.

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>>52962068
It says a lot that his mid-period example started to come out just 3 years into what was, at the time, D&D's 37 year history. That was also the exact same year that his example of early D&D was released. He's not exactly presenting an informed point of view.

D&D isn't perfect, but Lindy mostly misses the flaws, preferring to focus on ridiculous shit (like the classes in 4e having different enough powers that one can't masquerade as another). Even when he does hit on a legitimate flaw, he tends to do a rather poor job of making his case.

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>>52962170
>Roger Rabbit
>Not Buster Bunny

>>52956818
Thanks skerples. Will try to run this dungeon for some newbies in a week or so. Looking forward to level 3.

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>>52958823
I think I've got the hang of it, that door to the left, across the passage on a northwest wall is a bit of a mystery though.

>>52962511
Also, I think you make it pretty simple in actual play. For instance;

"You walk into a 3 by 5 room, with a door in the middle of the south wall where you came through. There's a campfire in centre of the room, and 3 rough looking figures cooking something on a spit. It smells like pork. They all turn their heads toward you".

>>52958933
I've been considering it, but ultimately think it'd make the game a bit too abstract and take too much time.

Here's what I do - I dump the complete dungeon map down on Roll20, then player tokens on top of it. Dynamic lighting ensures they will only ever see what their characters would: the rest is up to memory. It's incredible how quick this can make the game.

If they can still navigate in the dungeon without a map, then evidently a map wasn't needed. And occasionally, particularly in the case of larger dungeons, they still manage to get themselves lost - or even separated from one another because they can't even see each other unless they're in direct line of sight! It gets funny sometimes.

Not giving them a map at all, and instead describing all rooms to them and tasking them to draw a map of their own, can I'd imagine result to them getting lost even in such a simple dungeon where the actual adventurers - who can see around - would not be lost. I guess this could get funny and kind of scary but it'd also paint the adventurers as even more incompetent than they actually are.

>>52959432
>Infinite trinkets

Technically this isn't going to be infinite. How many could you actually create with it?

>>52963188
Yeah but that doesn't work when playing in person now does it

>>52963211
The last part does (personally, I'd be up front about fielding 'so, like this?' questions as they go if I went that way).

Alternatively, you could print chunks of the map on sheets of paper and then plonk down the ones they can see as you go.The biggest downside is that you'd need to keep it all filed properly so you can access the parts you need at a moments notice, but it would be good for modularity.

>>52956404
>post-'74
trash

>>52958840
You buy land from someone who's got some. No? Of course not.

You get granted land by a mighty lord. No? Of course not, you're bloody adventurers mate.

You go out into the wilds and pick a spot that looks good, subdue the local wilderness, and start building. Keep it secure, peasants move up and start farming and hunting and mining and villaging and paying taxes to you, and congratulations: you're doing it!

First Fantasy Campaign has a lot of the rules for this that didn't make it into OD&D, incidentally - OD&D specifies you can spend gold on vague "improvements" to your land, FFC has the rules that brief note was based on. It also has populations and road-building and all that fun stuff. It was published by Judges Guild and is in the Trove - it also has a lot of stuff about the actual Blackmoor campaign.

>>52962068
Dungeons & Dragons Third Edition Causes Brain Damage.

>>52963109
Yeah, "left" and "northwest" clearly aren't compatible, it's presumably a typo. The "across the passage" part always made me assume (as in not even registering the contradiction) that it's supposed to say northEAST wall and that the door is in the triangular chunk of wall. (Notice that the caller guy says they *ignore the door* and walk down that corridor)

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>>52962068
>old D&D is bad because the PCs are weak
>old D&D is bad because my DM made a bad dungeon
>old D&D is bad because the concept of a dungeon with monsters and treasure doesn't make sense to me
>Runequest is better than D&D because it's "realistic"

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>>52963109
>>52964012
Pic related.

>>52964040
You have to admit though, him preferring Runequest is exactly the kind of horseshit you expect out of Lindy. Not to mention how appropriate it is that he claims it's based on a realism which the system doesn't really have.

Runequest is good and cool, 70s d&d is good and cool, that guy's kind of an idiot.

>>52964129
Agreed, Runequest is good. The reasons he has for liking it over D&D are stupid though.

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Black Pudding is a pwyw/free osr zine on dtrpg, I'm reading issue 1 and it's p. good

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>>52964284
oh

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1e>4e>everything else
Whew. Had to get that out of my system.

>>52964329
You must be one of those weirdos who call OD&D and the Basics "1e." That's silly, but I forgive you.

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>>52964369
No. Becmi and that dreck is straight booty, son. 1e is life. The a in ad&d doesn't stand for accident.
>pic is of a giant wall of shit

>>52964468
2e is better than 1e. It's got the "advanced" thing and it's also a second edition, which always means it's first but better. They've fixed things.

>>52964468
then why isn't ad&d in the pic i know there's a lot of 3e but you could probably make room for some of it

>>52964489
>Implying anything in ADVANCED Dungeons & Dragons needed "fixing"
Ah, you'll be the first against the wall. I'm literally more advanced than you. It's in the friggin' name, buddy ol friend ol pal o"mine, pally wally.

>>52964515
Because that is a wall of shit, anon, of which ADVANCED Dungeons and Dragons is not. Read the post until it makes sense.

How does /osrg/ feel about Whitehack? It's my favourite of the retroclones I've seen so far, since it's a bit more traditional than Black Hack. I like how it stole 5e's Advantage mechanic and applied it to chargen so you're compensated for if the dice fuck you there.
Still never doing 3d6 down-the-line, fuck that noise

>publication date 1975 or later
It's shit mate.

all editions have some things of value in them, even 3e had some stuff worth nicking. just not the rules. or most of the fluff.

This may sound silly, but could you use the nethack wiki for monsters / items?
Monsters are toned down a notch (goblin = d4 hp, ac 10, damage d4) and come with interesting bits like resistances, weight, nutritional value*, and sometimes interesting bits of fluff. No tactics, though.

*I might be planning a dungeon meshi campaign ran under lbb...

Example: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Kobold
>All kobolds are poisonous to eat, but do not convey poison resistance. Each kobold has a 25% probability of being generated with 3-14 darts.[1]
>In German mythology, Kobolds normally start out as benevolent nix, but are either ignored or angered by humans, causing them to act out, or in this case, attack.
>Kobolds will "grunt" when #chatted to

>A kobold:

>has a head, a couple of arms, and a torso.
>is poisonous to eat.
>can eat corpses and fruits.
>is normally generated hostile.
>can pick up weapons and food.
>has infravision.
>can be seen through infravision.

>The race of kobolds are reputed to be an artificial creation of a master wizard (demi-god?). They are about 3' tall with a vaguely dog-like face. They bear a violent dislike of the Elven race, and will go out of their way to cause trouble for Elves at any time.

>>52965623
Why ask? You seem to have it figured out.

>>52965623
I have to admit, this may be a rather clever idea.

>>52964533
all of the "-hacks" come from a mentality that "less rules is always better" which I disagree with

>>52964533
The clone is shit and since I'm a swefag I also know the creator is shit, to the point where even if it were great I wouldn't want to play it for that reason. Fortunatley though, shit is as shit does, so I dodged that bullet.

B/X for life

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>>52964468
>Becmi and that dreck is straight booty, son.

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>>52965695
It... depends.

When I hacked together a bestiary, I created categories that went:
Worms
Vermin
Goblins
Men
Ogres
Owlbears
Wyrms
Dragons

And each category had a full statblock. All other entries referenced those stats if needed. Fungoids, for example, are "As goblins, morale 8, better constitution and total immunity to poison" or something like that.

The deciding mark is "will this ever be used in play?". Does anyone care if the Owlbear's Int is 4, 5, 10, or 12? Does that number actually help you play and use the Owlbear, or could you use that space better?

>>52965800
there's a middle ground. And I'd say b/x manages to be in that perfect spot. All of the monster stats have things the you will actually use. Lair percentages, treasure, xp, hd, ac, attacks, morale.

Though desu I'd rather have more rules that I might one day want to use than no rules. So ACKS(tm) is the ideal for me. I never thought I'd ever use mass combat and domain rules but suddenly, I'm using them and they're great.

>>52965623
The nethack wiki is a great source of ideas

Like reading the wiki page about thrones, inspired me to add a magic throne to my next dungeon.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Throne

I'm half tempted to drop a scroll of genocide in the next dungeon too
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Genocide

>>52965695
I dunno, I prefer less rules. I'm one of those people who thinks the simplicity of OD&D is its main strength, there's a lot I'd want to chop out and replace that just makes little sense from a modern standpoint.

>>52965759
>since I'm a swefag I also know the creator is shit
Oh? Do tell

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>>>52921562 →
>>>52923369 →
>>52957505
>>52958371
>>52958632
My quest began long ago when I was young and sat at the feet of a wise sage who told me of the lost D&D endgame:

> Only by restoring the endgame can Dungeons & Dragons again become the game it was meant to be.

Three years later I had cause to rejoice, as the endgame had been found.

> What makes ACKS unique is that it makes good on D&D's largely unfulfilled promise to take characters from lowly insignificance to the heights of power

The heights of power! Dare I climb them? But I was still young and frivolous and did not seek out this endgame until now I hold it in my hand and turn to p. 127 ATTRACTING PEASANTS AND FOLLOWERS.

I was mystified by these strange rules. If a fighter establishes a domain, then the population must be determined so questions of tax revenue and levying soldiers can be answered. However would it not be better to include a generic set of such rules with the terrain/wilderness generation tables? Such rules would be general purpose, whereas including them amid rules for domain building and saying that domain building is the endgame of fighters seems like railroading.

However, the wise sage said that ACKS is
> just about anything a high-level, power-hungry fantasy character might be interested in pursuing
so this must be ok. He knew all this before the rest of us because he received an advance copy.

Message - Turns to live
"You don't feel very well." 9
"You are turning a little green." 8
"Your limbs are getting oozy." 6
"Your skin begins to peel away." 4
"You are turning into a green slime." 2
"You have become a green slime." 0

>>52965645
Because I don't have lots of experience with D&D (nor nethack for that matter). Idk if the stats are too different or if they are plain whack monsters.
At a first glance ACs seem way too low for 'normal' monsters. Also lots of monsters are fairly different - beholder is just a passive thing that paralyzes you when hit, full stop.

>>52965887
sinks and fountains are great too
and graves
and shop walls
and shopkeepers

>>52965903
>Oh? Do tell
There's not really a lot to tell, he's just widely known to be a hugely pretentious douchenozzle and a bandwagoner on game trends (he made a steampunk game when steampunk was big, this alegedly OSR game came out after the OSR became popular in Sweden etc).

>>52965903
I've been considering OD&D for a super light game. Do you use the original game or which clone? What did you houserule?
Is it really THAT lethal? Getting +1hp every instead of a HD roll must suck a lot... (when I play BX I use AD&D HD sizes)

OSR blogs poll, URLs taken from the Pastebin:

https://www.strawpoll.me/12856929 (1/2)
https://www.strawpoll.me/12856933 (2/2)

>>52966014
I've not even gotten the chance to run any yet, but I'd probably just use Whitehack. Like I said, despite >>52965951 saying the designer's a bit of a cunt (I agree on that, steampunk is fucking cancer) it seems mechanically solid with the possible exception of the magic system.

I'm probably the worst person to ask on this, I'm probably a new-school OSR fan if such a term exists.

So I started a game using fucking dnd rules and castle of greyhawk module for shits and giggles. And one player is, I guess, really loves neverwinter night games, so after first party wipe he compelled me to start implementing treats and talents and all manner of newer things, which I was okay with to a certain extent back then, but now game is an stitched abomination of all editions.
Now, after a second party wipe, players made 2 clerics and this neverwinter guy starts discussion about more spells and more spell usage as I was using "fucking dnd" «x times a day» rule, so do you think it’s going to be okay to give them more? I felt like 4 cleric casts on level 4 is not much, but will make players careful with their decisions, and I did allow then to have their own spells from 3.5 list, 2 for each level, not only random roll spells from "fucking dnd". But according to player it’s just too little for a full caster?

Does anyone have a solid reaction table they can post?

Is it possible to have an NPC use geas or quest on a PC without it feeling like railroading?

>>52966326
Sure, if it's something (or something along the way to something else) they were going to do anyways.
Or go with more traditional geas, "eat all food offered by women" etc.

>>52966165
>compelled
How? Did he kidnap your family?

>>52966165
>fucking dnd
Is this some specific clone I haven't heard about? I halfway get the impression that it is and that you expect all of us to be familiar with it.

Anyway, tell your player to fuck off. Personally I'd also pry out all the crap he already make you add, and insist on clerics having 0 spells on level 1, because FUCK. THAT. SHIT.

Don't forget, caster player whining is what ruined D&D 3E -- or anyway, it would've been enough to ruin 3E on its own.

>>52963201
68 million, give or take.

>>52965912

Skip ACKS, check out Labryinth Lord's supplement, An Echo, Resounding, which was released by Sine Nomine press as part of their Red Tide line. It sets up the end game in a much more abstract and usable manner.

>>52966671
Well, it is in OSR trove, so my thought was this thread is a best place to look for answers.

>>52966729
>An Echo, Resounding
Is it on the Trove?

>>52966810

Yep, either under Labyrinth Lord, or Sine Nomine, I always forget where.

>>52965912
>I was mystified by these strange rules. If a fighter establishes a domain, then the population must be determined so questions of tax revenue and levying soldiers can be answered. However would it not be better to include a generic set of such rules with the terrain/wilderness generation tables? Such rules would be general purpose, whereas including them amid rules for domain building and saying that domain building is the endgame of fighters seems like railroading.

what kind nonsense are you even spouting
1: it's not just the endgame of fighters, all classes get a domain of some kind at level 9 in acks.
2: The rules for domain creation ARE general purpose, they're specifically for generating NPC domains too.
3:
>then the population must be determined
it has rules for determining population and growth tho
4:
>terrain generation tables
Unnecessary addition to the book since there are billions and billions of such tables online.

>>52966729
> It sets up the end game in a much more abstract and thus less usable manner.
fixed
I don't understand how people have difficulty with ACKS domain rules. Read once, make an example domain as you read, done.

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>>52966671
Trove/04_OSR-Ultra-Light- and One Page Games/Fuckin D&D.pdf

>>52966165
>>52966975
Did you seriously use that? How? I mean it reads as a joke more than anything else. It starts as a OSR parody then evolves into a full-blown 5e miniclone with individual movement rates and initiative and all. Props for compressing so much in a single page, though.

Why did you pick this instead of another system? Serious question.

>>52967013
As one-page games go, that one is actually really detailed.
It does read like a bad joke though.

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>>52966165
> fucking dnd rules
Oh no...
>so after first party wipe
Oh nooooo...
> he compelled me to start implementing treats and talents and all manner of newer things
Oh noooooooooooooooo!
> but now game is an stitched abomination of all editions.
Could be worse, but still, oh noooooooo!
>Now, after a second party wipe

Son, your game's beyond saving. Consider quitting and becoming a dog groomer.

>>52965706
It also helps because
>Do mission for count
>Fuck it up hugely
>Count hates you
>Flee his county
>Do mission for baron
>Don't fuck it up
>Count can't do jack shit in baron's lands without a lot of troublesome maneuvering and shit
>Do mission for duke because baron knows a guy that knows a guy
>Count gets to be salty

Instead of
>Fuck up count's mission
>Count presents evidence to strong central authority
>Baron turns you in when you show up
>Game over

>>52967086
Yeah that is what i figured too

>>52955971
In the beginning there was a perfect unchanging garden where everything was at peace in its place.
Then half the gods was so in love with the guarden that they wanted to let themselves loose on it. Sibling Fire wanted to dance among the fields and spread his radiance amongst them. Sibling Wind wanted to sing to the world, forever letting her words caress it and gently whisper in the trees.
Sibling Water and Sibling Wood stood against this since the winds would lash the seas and create waves and the fire would consume the trees and leave naught but ash.

In their furor and heated debate, a small sliver of chaos was created which quickly retreated and hid itself from the eyes of the gods.

Finally, Sibling Mountain spoke and proposed a plan. The gods would fashion a great wheel so that every thing could have both time and a place. Each following the other. In this manner, the seasons of the world was established.

Do attributes gain on level advancement in S&W?

>>52967830
They do if you want them to, but why?
The whole point of S&W is forgetting about that sort of things

>>52964290
I'd still fuck it.

Which module has those adventure starter packs in it? I am sick of my players taking forever to pick inventory and they don't even pick the cool shit anyways.

Or even a starting equipment generator.

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>>52968709
> Which module has those adventure starter packs in it?

So I gotta ask guys because it is never brought up.
What the hell is with the AD&D3e in the trove?

>>52969114
By this I mean, what is it, is it playable, and why is it never discussed by the way.

>>52969130

There was a bit of discussion during the very early days of these threads. Basically it's a fan-made edition that tries to ask "what-if WotC never bought out TSR." It's also of questionable copyright status. Its original home site was taken down, and now it lives in the Trove and various anon's hard drives.

>>52969197
So? Anyone tried it, is it any good? Well organized?
Can you use it for reference?

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>>52964091

Runequest is better, though. Only reason D&D is more popular is because of pic related.

>>52965623
Hey, go pirate the Hackmaster Hacklopedias. The whole ten-volume set for Hackmaster 4e (the AD&D-based one) and the Hacklopedia of Beasts for the new edition. The first game was deliberately (badly) jokey, the second's more serious, but both assumed your party of wandering psychos would be interested in anything they could loot from whatever they killed, occasionally including meat. Some good write-ups.

>>52967133
wait, baron is above count now?

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>>52968980
My man!!! Thanks

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Is there a way to emphasize the differences of weaponry - versatility of swords, chopping power of axes, poking of spears, etc. - without adding in pages upon pages of worthless rules?

I mean, a battleaxe does the exact same amount of damage as a longsword, and is just as easy to hit with, even though in real world they were pretty different weapons.

If we're lucky the system considers blunt weapons being able to get through some armor, which really just makes the mace the best weapon out there.

>>52969223

There was a guy talking about running it way back when, but I don't know if he ever did.

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>>52969367

>Runequestfags actually believe this

>>52969837
Make Armour damage reduction, weapon will deal base damage + armour penetration damage

>>52969837
>>52969956
You could try to loosely resurrect various rules about spacing and frontage. You know, how you can cram more front-line fighters in a 10' corridor with spears and thrusting swords, and have a second rank of spearmen, as opposed to axes or some other weapon types.

desu I would rather do that than change from having all weapons do d6 damage. Make the change something important.

>>52969837
Common sense. It's pretty easy to make an ad hoc judgement that a rapier will only do 1pt + str bonus to a skeleton or that axes are particularly effective at fucking up shambling mounds.

>>52969927

It's true and you know it.

Well, that and that whole Wizards d20 OGL shit where everyone and their dog made an RPG with 3.x clone rules.

Everyone knows that 3.x produced the cancer that is the "how do traps work" fags who can't figure out how to make traps not just skill dice rolls.

>>52969837
If you don't mind an attack matrix, Rythlondar has one that does this -- it gives each weapons to-hit bonuses against different armor, like boosting maces vs plate or flails vs chain.

>>52970045
I'm about to jump into OD&D, d6 damage scares me -- is there a guide for all this stuff? Beyond common sense, I mean.
I'd love to have a few bullet points so I can run combat immersively. Flanking, different formations, big weapons in corridors, etc.

>>52970211
>It's true and you know it.
>goes on about WotC

>>52970259

The percentile system was better balanced, and the greater focus on gear was what made Runequest better than AD&D, in my opinion. I just had that aside, but the WotC shit started in AD&D2nd when people started wanting more skills.

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>>52970211
>It's true and you know it.

>>52970362

See >>52970355

>>52970355
>>52970407
See the .gif of >>52970362

This is /osrg/, which is a stronghold of B/X playing members of the OSR. Nothing you just pointed out interests most of us very much, and if it did we would just steal it and add it to the framework of our very simple and playable system.

>>52970552

I like OSR and BE/A stuff. I just think RuneQuest is better.

I thought we had The new easy to master Dungeons and Dragons game pdf in the trove.
Anyone got it? I want to see the dungeon in it.

>>52970614
Is it better for OSR stuff?

>>52969367
>t. definitely not beige

>>52967918
I'm new to OSR you stupid drumpftard

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>>52970690

Aha! You caught me! Or at least you seem to believe you have. For I am going to adapt this book and totally not run it as a RuneQuest module.

Oh, wait, it totally is a RuneQuest module, drat. Very well, I guess I'll adapt it into an OSRIC module instead for a dungeon crawl... drat.

>>52970782

It's a legit question for him to ask. Stats don't hardly do anything in OD&D (and therefore Swords and Wizardy) so tacking on a mechanic to increase them would add a layer of complexity for no real gain.

>>52970640
look into boxed sets, or something '91

>>52970782
The question still applies. Why go into OSR and S&W in particular if you care about that sort of thing?

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>>52970211
Speaking of which,

>>52955720

>>52955720

has been pretty funny.

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>>52970237
>I'm about to jump into OD&D, d6 damage scares me -- is there a guide for all this stuff?
Even though on-hit damage is uniform, average damage varies by weapon because to-hit chance varies by weapon.

Did anyone think about implementing leylines that empower wizards? How did you do it

I was considering doing it for the GLOG, because the magic die system seems to be fitting it rather well.

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>>52970825
>>52970640

Trove/08_TSR/04 AD&D 2nd Edition/02-AD&D2e Core Products - Boxed Sets/AD&D 2e - Introduction to AD&D Boxed Set [tsr 1134].pdf

34.8MB so I can't post it in the thread (it stored all the pages as images instead of text).
Incidentally, this has some *really* nice art.

>>52971119
>Did anyone think about implementing leylines that empower wizards?
I could see using that for an NPC as a fluff handwave for (a) why they're so powerful and (b) why they never expand outward.
Wouldn't make rules for it though, since it would be too restricting for PCs to enjoy.
I guess if PCs offed the sorcerer-baron (or whoever) and /insisted/ on studying his research notes, I'd bump them up a few MU levels while they stay in his old tower?

>>52971388
Your link doesn't work.

>>52971423
I've been thinking of making it so that certain powers had reverses of daily power, similar to characters themselves. So allies and enemy spell-casters could use that if necessary.

An evil wizard building his tower in a place of power, with the intent of using it to empower his own capacity seems oddly fitting. Same with party wizards using them for their own gain.

>>52971630
>certain powers
certain places

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Gonna run this shit I made up with LotFP. Hopefully it can serve as a long running campaign for once.

>>52971426
That's because it isn't, and isn't trying to be, a link.
It's just a description of the filepath.

If you can't find the Trove, read the OP.

>>52971667
Did you draw this? It's very nicely done. It's a bit silly though that all of these world-ending adventures happen to be so close to a random Irish city.

>>52971667
This is some real high quality stuff man! Makes me wanna buy a bunch of modules and run it.

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>>52972454
>>52973469

No, it's from a free map called 'Mildar'. I just modified it for my own purposes.

Caithen is supposed to be about a fifth the size of London and equally diverse in its denizens, hence all the surrounding insanity. One part Lankhmar, one part Bas-Lag, one part Dublin. Magic is practiced in secret, and is wholly unnatural and dangerous. Engineers experiment with early flight near the docks. Museums and shoppes house items that can change the very fabric of reality. Rebellions and religious clashes bloody the streets. Sprawling catacombs below the city house dark, dark things.

>>52973612
>No, it's from a free map called 'Mildar'
Doesn't make it any less quality my dude

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>>52973653
Thanks, gan ainm.

>>52973612
I like the concept, but I can't see a campaign lasting over 3 adventures. At some point the players are going to trigger an earth-shattering event that breaks everything. It looks like a good template for one-shots though.

>>52971667

This is really nice, but where exactly are the keyed places? I can't find them anywhere. Is that on purpose or is this an unfinished version?

Did we ever get a scan of Fire on the Velvet Horizon?

>>52973794
They're wherever the DM wants them to be in that district. More of a "you'll find these places when roaming around eventually." I just kept open it ended, so when using Vornheim with the city crawl, one could just pepper the usual places with some of the special ones.

>>52973904

Excellent. Thanks, I will keep this!

>>52973852
File share thread.

>>52973852
>>52973970

Not that anon, but has anyone dropped Veins of the Earth yet?

>>52974074
Yes, a couple threads ago.

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>>52974074
Ctrl-F the last thread for "Veins", someone posted a link to it.

>>52974306
>pic
The Encyclopaedia was a mistake.

>>52974489
I get the reference, but that book was solid. Almanacs though...

>>52973970
Current share thread seems dead, doesn't seem to be in the archive.

Been going crazy figuring out how to run the first game for a bunch of players who've never played before. Noticed the OP image and checked out the blog, I'm hoping to run the dungeon for my players, changing it to be more suited to my setting. Thanks a lot!

>>52975412
Skerples hasn't posted Floor 3 yet (his players haven't gotten there yet, but know about his blog).
That said, he *deos* have Floor 3 done. If you drop an email address he could probably send it to you?

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>>52975564
>>52975412
They just ended Session 4, but sadly, didn't explore even one additional room of the dungeon.

If you need to tack stuff on, go right ahead. Put in a big room with a dire basilisk, a small loop of rooms with a friendly snake-man lich-wizard (will trade potions for living creatures) and a cave system generated using Veins of the Earth but full of fungus goblins.

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>>52975412
If I post an "intro to OSR / rpgs" draft notes, would that be useful? Stuff I covered in my first game with new players (more or less).

>>52977602
I never understand why people would ask this sort of thing.
Just post it. Absolute worst case scenario it gets ignored.

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>>52977620
>>52977602

It's kind of incoherent at the moment. Needs more edits:

Skerples' Intro to OSR Games for Complete Noobs, Part 1

There are Elements of Chance

Ever played cops and robbers or any other made-up games? Did you ever meet the one kid who said "Nuh uh, you didn't hit me, I have a bulletproof vest!" In this game of make-believe, there are a few rules to help decide who hits who, and how hard, and other things like that.

Your characters are also going to have some random numbers assigned to them. Sometimes the numbers will be good, and sometimes they'll be bad, and there's not much you can do about it. In this game the numbers aren't that important. Sometimes, a character will terrible stats and survive for ages, while a character with brilliant stats dies in the first hour of game.


There are Elements of Skill

In Settlers of Catan, the rules are fixed and solid and balanced. You can't go "Hey Steve, I'll take my Knights and you take your Knights and we'll go pillage that Sheep tile." That's not in the rules. And that's fine. But in a game like this, you can come up with any plans you want to. In that way the game is like a real world, and the people in it are like real people. Nobody minds too much if you go around smashing pottery and looting houses in a video game, but in this game, that sort of thing has real consequences. Similarly, you can't lure Bowser out of his castle with a delicious meal in the video game because cooking wasn't coded into the game.

Coming up with a good plan and executing that plan is important. Be smart. Pay attention. Think of solutions that the rules don't explicitly cover.

Sometimes, you might ask to do something that requires you to roll dice to find out if it works. Sometimes, it will just work, or just fail. You don't need to roll to walk up the stairs, and you can't roll to flap your arms and fly to the moon.

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>>52977750
Skerples' Intro to OSR Games for Complete Noobs, Part 2

In Character vs Out of Character

You don't have to do silly voices or wear costumes. You'll figure out how comfortable you are acting as your character as we go along. The main thing, right now, is to remember that your character knows things you don't know, and that you know things your character doesn't know.

Your character knows things about the world that you, as a player, don't know. They know how to ride a horse or make poison or identify magic runes. If there's a situation where that applies, I'll just tell you what your character knows. If I'm not sure, I might make you roll for it.

Similarly, there are things you know that your characters don't know. The main one is reason. We live in a logical age; the characters you're playing don't. They don't have the benefit of a post-Enlightenment education. They might not even be literate. You aren't afraid of the weather because you understand what the weather is. Your characters don't. They might not understand things that we take for granted, and they might act on motives that we'd fine archaic or ridiculous.

You, the player, might know things about other characters or the world that your character doesn't. You might know a secret about another character's past, or the best way to kill a vampire. But remember, your character can only act on knowledge they have in the game. We'll discuss this more as it comes up.

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>>52977778
Skerples' Intro to OSR Games for Complete Noobs, Part 3

Your Characters are Going to Die

Did you ever play Super Mario Bros? Mario died a lot in that game. Sometimes he died because you made a mistake. Sometimes it was chance, or luck, or you were distracted, or you didn't understand how an enemy worked. This game is like that, except in the video game, Mario comes back again and again. In this game, each time you get a new character.

Having a character die doesn't mean you made a mistake or failed. It's part of the learning process. Sometimes it's just random chance.

You get to make a new character, and I'll find a way to introduce them to the group. You start at Level 1 again but it's not a big deal. A Level 1 character is just as useful as a Level 4 character almost every way. You'll never be completely outclassed.

Leveling

You level up and improve your character by looting treasure. Imagine a dragon and its hoard of treasure. Kill the dragon and you get 0 XP. Steal the treasure, by force or stealth, and it counts. You have to get it out of the dungeon and take it somewhere safe, but once it's safe - buried, spent, invested, or donated - it counts.

You start at Level 1. Levels 2 through 4 are where major upgrades to your character take place. By Level 4, you're about as powerful as you'll ever become, but you'll still get slightly better every Level past 4.


At Level 5, and every time you level up past Level 5, you can retire your character to safety. This means I won't torment them anymore. If they can afford it, they can buy a or rent some land, set up a shop, teach at a wizard college, or beg in the gutter. They won't affect the plot anymore, but the plot won't specifically affect them. General disasters (fire, plagues, war, demonic invasions) will still affect their lives, but they are safe from almost anything else. Feel free to organize your character's retirement ahead of time. You can try and buy a castle, a tavern, or political power.

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>>52977807
Skerples' Intro to OSR Games for Complete Noobs, Part 3, the End


The Social Contract

If you like this game and you're having fun, show up on time, or tell me in advance if you can't make it. If you don't like this game, let me know and we'll make changes.

Please don't bring out your phones during game unless there's something urgent. Ideally this is the most interesting thing going on. In the same vein, understand that there are 5 other people in the room, so don't deliberately waste time.

If I ask you "Are you doing something?" and you tell me what you're doing, you can't go back and undo that thing. Once you've picked an action and the world has changed in some way because of it, it's locked. Doesn't matter if you have a better idea a half second later. The only exception is if we aren't on the same page regarding the world. If you want to jump across a chasm that you think is 5' wide and I think is 50' wide, we'll need to step back. Your character knows how wide the chasm is.

Setting Notes

The world of this game is mostly made up. You can add details to it as needed, or if I ask you about the world or your character's background. I get veto powers, and I can edit your answers, but they're also valid, in a sense.

There's magic and weirdness and strange things in this world. You can't look up this setting on google or read books about it. I built it just for this game, and just for you.

>>52977807
>You start at Level 1 again but it's not a big deal. A Level 1 character is just as useful as a Level 4 character almost every way. You'll never be completely outclassed.
man that is such a gigantic lie, sure it's not as pronounced as in WOTC editions(for the most part), but it is still a very noticeable gap

personally I'd have new characters be introduced at the level of whoever has the lowest level in the party(assuming it's a system with differing XP tables for different classes), maybe a level lower if they're over level 3, but that's a huge maybe

although I'm tempted in my next game to do a Dark Souls/Bloodborne style respawn mechanic of some sort instead, helps that I already crib from those games for a lot of my settings as is so it wouldn't be that odd of a fit

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>>52977888
It's true in the hack (GLOG, from Goblin Punch) we're using. I totally agree, it's not true in all (most?) systems, but in this one, it's actually completely valid.

If a level 10 and a level 1 character fight in this system, it's not a fair fight by any means, but I'd still give the Level 1 character a 20% chance of victory.

>>52977921
>It's true in the hack (GLOG, from Goblin Punch) we're using. I totally agree, it's not true in all (most?) systems, but in this one, it's actually completely valid.
probably should have mentioned it was for a specific hack, thought you were writing a generic OSR intro

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>>52977959
Eh, like I said, it's not exactly edited.

And if this doesn't apply to your game, it at least reminds you to discuss and formalize how it /does/ work in your game.

>>52977602
Lots of really good comparisons there. Especially the "cops and robbers" and "Mario" bits.
I also liked how you broached meta-gaming without actually drawing attention to it.

You mentioned "stats" and "XP" without actually saying what they were.
You can sort of tell by context? But that might just be a failure of empathy on my part.

>>52977880
>Part 3, the End
That's part 4.

You also didn't address in-character conflicts bogging down play or escalating to out-of-character conflicts.
Maybe that would be better to explain when it happens, rather than soil to mood by mentioning it earlier?

>>52977888
It's even less pronounced in GLOG than it is in B/X.

>>52978008
I spent almost 10 minutes for a phrase, then found it right after my post.
>But that might just be a failure of empathy on my part.
The phrase I was looking for was, "Curse of knowledge."

>>52977959
Speaking of which...

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>>52978008
>>Part 3, the End
>That's part 4.

Guess I need a Part 5: What the GM Says, Went. :)

>>52978008
Yeah, I'm trying to avoid using jargon and "worst case" examples wherever possible, but Stats and XP will be more explicitly covered during character generation. I don't want to write in "you'll see what stats are in a second" because that gets annoying, but they were immediately obvious once the players started rolling for them.

>You also didn't address in-character conflicts bogging down play or escalating to out-of-character conflicts.
To a certain extent, I'm relying on my GMing skills to keep that fun. I don't want to say "You have to work together and be friends". I'm just going to design things so that occurs, subtly and organically.

I'm also relying on new players, who are all decent human beings, not being total shitheads to each other or to me. It's worked out so far. They all understand that we're here to have collaborative fun, and fun at someone's expense is no fun at all, because the /total/ fun doesn't increase.

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>>52978103
>because the /total/ fun doesn't increase.
AKSUALLY, total fun can be inflated at a victim's expense; provided the victim only feels inconvenienced.
Bullies won't normally be satisfied by that, but can be if they misunderstand the victim's reaction.

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>>52978185
Well, yes, but it's like junk food increasing your life span. If you're starving to death, yes, of course it does. Cram those big macs down*. If you're in for the long haul, might be a bad idea.

*in a medically responsible way, you nitpicking fucktards, I know you're going to bring up refeeding syndrome.

>>52955971
>Facetious Statblocks edition

>>52958371
Gygax Apologist (AC 9; HD 1; MV 40'; #AT 1d8; D 2-8 (as glaive-guisarme); Save F1; Ml 10; AL L) Psionic, generate as appropriate.
>>52957505
Quarry Elemental (as Greater Mimic, but only acts by collapsing)
>>52959215
Map Muddler (AC 7; HD 2-2; MV 30'; #AT 0; D n/a; SD ethereal; Save M3; Ml n/a; AL C) Rearrange the map* when killed, evaded, or when the party plans to exit.
*the dungeon isn't "actually" changing, the Map Muddler has been causing them to misperceive the layout
>>52961813
Dire Ferret (AC 3; HD 4+1; MV 120'; #AT 3; D 1d8/1d6/1d4; SA charm person; SD attackers must check morale (too cute to hit); Save T4; Ml 8; AL N)
>>52962068
Lindybeige (as Hobgoblin, but Nilbog traits; AL L)


>>52978242
Hey it's kobold-free, but this song has some pretty degenerate hand holding in it.
Knock yourself out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WchseC9aKTU

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>>52978579
Jk, stats are ok.

>>52977880
>You can't look up this setting on google
Didn't they?

Did that Raggi guy really put out a book called "Vaginas Are Magic", or is that trolling?

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>>52969837

The big problem is that D&D combat is pretty abstract to begin with. It's assumed that you're using your weapon in the best way already possible. A fighter with a sword is aiming for joints and gaps in the armour, while a fighter with a mace is striking at flat surfaces to maximize impact, and an axe is swung in such a way as to leave few openings for a counterattack. Regardless of the weapon you're using, the rules assume the individual idiosyncracies average out to give the same attack roll requirement.

The second issue is that adding more categories will make some weapons plain better than others and more favoured by PCs.

If you're okay with messing with both of these, there's several major ways you can give weapons a unique identity:

-Initiative - "always strikes first" is a potent advantage especially at low levels . A good substitute for reach if you don't want to fiddle with reach. Alternately, "always strikes last" is a good way to make weapons with other advantages less attractive
-reach - hard to use if you're not using grid maps or minis
-damage die size
-damage rerolls - in a system with variable damage die I feel this is better saved as a magic item property, but if you're playing OD&D this is a good way
-bonus to-hit - another property best used sparingly since it gets weird when you start including magic items
-bonus to-hit vs. armour type
-conditional bonus damage - classic example of this might be "double damage while mounted" (lance) or "double damage when set against a charge" (pike), or so forth, or even alternate damage die types against different size categories.

If you want to keep things simple, restrict to differentiating weapons in no more than 2 or 3 of the above categories. AD&D is the system that goes hog wild with this, so you can mine it for ideas.

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>>52979984
>>52969837
It would be interesting to have something for D&D like the Savage Armoury is for Savage Worlds, where you can essentially build weapons based on their capabilities. I think it'd be a lot trickier to do for D&D though, given the power arc.

>>52979844
Both are true

>>52979844
Raggi is the one trolling.

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>>52979844
I had to look it up, turns out it's true.

>>52980459
>>52980482
>>52980486
Anyone has it?

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Is there any character generator that handles Darks Sun properly?

>>52980526
"Always the 3rd Saturday in June.For Free RPG Day, we work with participating retailers and RPG publishers to bring RPGs into the hands of gamers worldwide."

So not unless some anon is going to leak it, which I think would be a shame.

I haven't read blood in the chokolate, only seen that playthrough poster (with the little while figures). Is it really that fetishy?

>>52980580
Yes. It's unironically "Magical Realm: The Dungeon". It'd be easier to count the number of pages that *don't* have some kind of reference to lesbians, fat women, fat lesbians, lesbians growing fat, women growing fat, people growing fat in general, people becoming lesbians or people growing into fat lesbians. Loving detail is given to the interactions between fat lesbians, of course. Half the curses which litter every single encounter are somehow conductive to the production of fat lesbians.

>>52980607
That's the modules biggest problem, honestly. LotFP adventures live and die by their weird, unexpected, potentially frightening encounters but 99% of those in BitC just about revolve around the writer's fetish. If you're into the same things (and don't think you'll feel awkward reveling in it in front of your players), you'll love BitC. If not, it'll be of very limited utility and not even very inspirational.

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>>52980535
So, before anyone concldes it with a swift no, let me also add a wider question:

How much material should one be familiar with to run a smooth, combat-lite game of AD&D Dark Sun? Are basic rules covered in Player's Manual or one should lookup the DM's Gudie too? Is Monster Manual usefull for Athas at all?

I'm asking because the DnD wasn't anything important there before 3.0 and I have PSTD from this drudgery of rules lookup an session lasting single fights I played few times.

>>52971047
mate, don't use chainmail in od&d. it's not worth the hassle. I just use the alt system and am too groggy to recognise greyhawk as a valid supplement - even I think chainmail is a mediocre game at best.

>>52980637
>>52980607
That's a shame, the idea of dungeon crawling through willy wonka's factory is pretty entertaining.

>>52980877
You how /tg/ always emphasizes how important it is to jerk off before starting to do anything tg? That dungeon is an example of what happens when someone watches a movie, gets extremely aroused by one scene (you know very well which one) and immediately sets off to write a game. Let it be a lesson.

>>52977888
what about of implementing the XP and respawn a la souls game style?
you gain XP points, but have to spend it in a safe place (could be a temple) to level up.
Also, if you die the XP pool keeps where you fall and you respawn at the last temple you visited. to regain the XP you have to reach the pool you left where you died.
Also (optional) use your XP insted of coin to buy equipment.

MUs cast as one level higher if INT is 15+, one level lower if 6-
Clerics have the same deal with WIS.

Good/bad idea? This is for OD&D, if that matters.

>>52980877
Tbf. How the fuck do you write a Wonka dungeon without all the fetish fuel?

>>52981292
?? What. Just crawl around in a candy land except everything is dangerous? Why would the fetish fuel even be mandatory.

>>52981298
yeh we couldn't have people getting fat in a chocolate themed dungeon even though that's a direct reference that would be awful

>>52981323
If getting fat was just a singular occasion and treated as one reference among many, it'd have been fine. The module, however, literally makes it so that almost EVERY SINGLE ENCOUNTER has a good chance of making characters swell with fat (IIRC 3 or 4 of the 8 possible "curses" accomplish this in some fashion, and virtually every trap or enemy has the ability to inflict a random one), and the book dwells way, way, WAAAAAY too long on the details of fat women specifically (and how the fat women have sex, of course) to not assume someone was getting off to this. Even something as simple as the villain's equipment list can't seem to get away from half a paragraph detailing how, if her amulet of disease immunity is taken, she will gain 200 pounds and burst out of her armor in a wave of lesbian fat. Crucial adventure details, indeed.

>>52981389
Ever heard about a "motif"? That's something actual art does, not whatever weaboo bullshit you probably mistake for it. And the motif of this artwork is fat women.

>hurr durr what is Renaissance art

>>52981407
>what is Renaissance art
Point me towards the art piece whose explicit purpose it to provide a framework for a challenging dungeon crawl yet sees fit to spend almost an entire page out of 50 or so elaborating on how one fat woman rapes her fat woman prisoner, even though the event has virtually no chance of actually featuring in the adventure.

Does #AT 5/2 mean 5 attacks or something else?

>>52981733
It means five attacks split between two rounds. So two attacks one round, three the next, then two again, etc.

>>52981746
Ah, thanks heaps bro, but five attacks in total?

>>52981746
No, it's 2 attacks using a d20 and one 'half attack' using a d10 each round

>>52981770
More like two and half attacks.

>>52981779
Really? I haven't seen it interpreted in that way anywhere I've read, though it doesn't sound like a terrible suggestion.

>>52981779
>>52981787
I see, I see, thanks heaps bros.

>>52981787
>>52981857
by the way >>52981779 is a complete fabrication and please don't do it it's an awful idea

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>>52981779
>>52981949
I don't know about that - it'd be easier to remember than hitting one more time every other round, and seems to work well in DCC.

I'd raise the d10 die a bit higher, though. d14 maybe.

>>52982244
What game's that from?

>>52982418
DCC. Dungeon Crawl Classics.

It's kind of debatable whether it's truly OSR, since it takes rather many mechanics and mindset out of 3rd edition, but it's also pretty lethal and has a good philosophy on monsters, treasure, and magic items.

Check it out, make your own impression.

Out of curiosity, what's the average length of a OSR campaign, in # of sessions? How much time per session?

>>52982925
In general or the people in this threads?

Is there a pdf of JG108-Verbosh? Can I have a link? Sounds like an amazing and fun setting.

"
Verbosh is a 80 page booklet describing an entire little kingdom with its two cities, small villages, many monster lairs, citadels and multiple dungeons.
Verbosh consists of three distinct sections: the "Village" of Verbosh and environs, the wilderness and the Schuwang-Nau Tower, a dungeon for higher level play. The village is a nicely described locale, including shops, taverns and a three level dungeon. The tone of the place is not as serious and grim as your average town, and the number of funny, incompetent NPCs may not sit well with some Judges. There is, for example, the former King, who lost his city in a game of dice and sells fake titles to gullible adventurers. Or the place which sells Demon Destroying Dirt (only one cp a bucket!). Nevertheless, if you can tolerate the whimsical attitude, it is actually a decent place to adventure in. As an added bonus, you can also explore a sunken ship in the river.
Then comes the wilderness. There is the smaller town of Warrenburg, as well as many small settlements, fortresses, lairs and special areas of the realm. While descriptions are bare-bones, you could easily run a full campaign here.
The last section is the dreaded Shuwang-Nau Tower. The tower is a big, multi-story dungeon (9 levels plus a basement of crypts)
"

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>>52983645
is RuneQuest talk permitted on this thread? Asking for a friend

>>52983909
Try it and find out.

>>52983909
D-Do you have a pdf? Post it, be nice anon :^)

>>52980732
>How much material should one be familiar with to run a smooth, combat-lite game of AD&D Dark Sun?
You would need to know how THAC0 and hp work.
You may also want Psionic Combat rules. Use The Complete Psionic Handbook / The Will and the Way.
>Are basic rules covered in Player's Manual or one should lookup the DM's Gudie too?
Assuming that's an exclusive-or, no.
>Is Monster Manual usefull for Athas at all?
Absolutely! Plenty of shit to reskin. And the 2e Monsterous Manual has loads of Athasian beasties in it.

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>>52983909
Runequest (Mythras) is the best RPG, and also uber OSR since it was what all the college kids were playing when I was playing D&D in the late 70's, so yeah.

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>>52983925

Anyway, my "Lamentations of the Duck Princess" is nearly publication ready.

>>52983981
if your pdf quest fails $20-$25 used on amazon & ebay

What's the strategic incentive to pick a lantern over a torch and vice versa?

>>52983909

Make a Runequest thread. This is for OSR, as in "the children of OSRIC," which is to say "early D&D and compatible clones."

>>52984143
You're teasing really hard, anon... I've been looking for this forever.

>>52983909
It's probably fine. You could try making another thread and post a link to it in this one.

>>52981733
Multiple attacks are silly, and at odds with the abstraction of combat.
Just make one attack, that hits really hard.

If you absolutely must have damage go multiple ways, make rules so damage can spill over after a kill.

>>52983909
It's not, but we're not cops so it's not like anything will happen.
Worst we can do is report you, but no janitors ever come to /tg/.

Only way posts get removed is "auto-delete at 10 reports."
I honestly doubt we have enough people for that to be a concern.

>>52984156
Lanterns burn lantern oil (a versatile commodity) where torches burn themselves.
Cheap lanterns don't give light in all directions. Hooded Lanterns are hard to blow out.
Glass lanterns are prone to shattering.

>>52985222
How would you have damage scale up on levels, then, if it would at all?

>>52985399
Beyond to-hit chance? Bonus to damage.

>>52984156
Ancient Roman torches were chemically treated to prevent water from extinguishing them.

So in ACKs is fighting gods (at the endgame) something that sounds feasible? Looking at it, the character seem to be massively powerful, both personally, and domain wise. Something like challenging the gods seems feasible to me. Though stats elude me. Thoughts?

>>52986539
Houserule up Wrath of the Immortals for use with ACKS? Grab the powers from Birthright?

>>52986539
>Thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9vECzikqpY

>>52985399

Could steal a (semi) modern mechanic and let the user sacrifice hit for damage.

>>52984156
You can adjust the amount of light coming out of a lantern more easily by blocking sides, covering it, etc. Sometimes you don't want everything to know where you are, or you want to be less bright so you can negotiate with the dark dwellers, stuff like that.

You can fit different coloured glass/crystal/weird into lantern lenses for various reasons.

Depending on how you want your fantasy, lanterns can also make less smoke. They're not as good for clubbing monsters you want to catch on fire though. Its easier to light stuff on fire with torches. Sometimes simpler is better. Or at least less fragile.

>>52986739
Thanks for the tip Anon. I've never read through wrath of the immortals. How is it compared to Faith's and Avatars from AD&D2e or Dieties and Demigods (from 3e)?
>>52986781
That was an interesting vid anon. Thanks. I can definitely see where he's coming from. for me its less about getting to play gods (most of the time) and more about being able to challenge the gods. for me DnD is old epics. going from zero to challenging the heavens.

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>>52988277
Not the same vein, but you may also enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APPxO-SJVK8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7GaBs7x5LU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBNMCOWJ9fE

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After a nice three-day vacation I'm back with Advanced Dungeons & Dragons™ Second Edition monster for the DARK SUN® setting or any game world with green psychic tigers running around.

>inb4 DARK SUN® lore says lycanthropes don't exist on Athas

magic/psionics/dragons I ain't gotta explain shit

Where can I read a decent example of wilderness exploration / hexcrawling?

>>52986864
>You can fit different coloured glass/crystal/weird into lantern lenses for various reasons.

I had never even thought about this. Now I have a brand new idea for a whole shit load of puzzles.

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>>52988937
For a quick example, using gemstones cut into the shape of lantern-lenses is an interesting device used during a few quests in Runescape.

>>52989125
I'm thinking of stealing the plot of From Beyond and making the light from a strange amethyst lens the only way to see an invisible stalker thats haunting a wizard's archives.

>>52988581
So.... their psionics are limited to their Wild Talent when not transformed?

>>52984143
>if your pdf quest fails $20-$25 used on amazon & ebay
T b h this is a good option for most JG content; only the real high-profile stuff is hoarded by faggots to the point where it's expensive.

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Glacial hexcrawl encounters?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/04/blood-falls-antarctica-explained/

>>52986781
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UjXi1HKjms
Gary was right
Magic Users were a mistake

Gimme tables for wilderness generation, I love making maps by rolling dice.

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>>52990481
Best book.

>>52984287
>>52983909
I'd agree with anon. RQ would make the 'but my immersion' people explode, with mechanics that actually feed back where they belong.

With more experience, you get harder to hit.
With better armor, you take less damage.
In order to get better at something, you hire a teacher or practice.
Anyone can follow a god, and get rewarded for it.

What are some good places to look for dungeon inspiration?

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>>52955971
Here's a PDF with both level 1 and level 2 from Skerples introductory tutorial dungeon.

Hopefully we'll get level 3 pretty soon as well.

>>52990988
I think his group meets once a week?
Also they move slow.
I wouldn't expect it until *at least* the 11th.

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>>52991111
They move so damn slow. This session (which was yesterday), they didn't explore even one more room of the dungeon. They spent the entire session trying to locate, capture, and farm a troll. It was hilarious. They all nearly died.

>>52990909
Shoo, Steve Perrin. Shoo.

>>52984063
Great thanks! I have little time for game-related reading now, but I hope to start a campaign in June/July.

>>52991332
If you plan on using 2e, stick to the 1e DMG.

>>52991473
Thanks for advice, can you elaborate why?

>>52990909

Then go make a Runequest thread and wow everyone with how great it is. Or see if there is one already, they show up from time to time.

>>52991575

>>52954435
>>52954546

>>52800130
>>52800214
>>52800544
>>52801413
>>52801566
>>52809474
>>52809564

>>52991129
Maybe if you used a caller?

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>>52989826
Depends on the DM's whim
Before you brought it up I assumed the powers were accessible in all forms but I like your idea. That's what I get for making a monster that breaks the rules (according to the CPH lycanthropes are never psionic)

Someone tell me why I shouldn't just combine fighters and thieves into 'Adventurer/Dungeoneer' for my planned BFRPG game (it's basically B/X so if you're not familiar with BFRPG specifically just assume its whatever D&D retroclone you are familiar with)

Adventurer
Advance as Fighter, XP wise and in attack and HP
Best saving throws of both class
Familiar with all weapons and armor
You can't hide or move silently or climb in chain or heavier (but you may still sneak with a buckler, shieldwise), meaning you basically choose whether you're a sneaky thief or a tough fighter based on your armor.

>>52992274
Go for it, sounds fun :)))

>>52992226
Now I'm stuck imagining were-MUs who grow beards and feel compelled to wear bathrobes during the full moon.

What if, in a similar vein, the Paladin was secretly a were-Thief?
Would they hide inside shadow during a full moon, or in shadows cast by the moonlight at any time of the month?

Also, also, how do lycanthropes operate during an eclipse?

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>>52992105
Nah, I'm not being serious. The only frustration is that they're slowing down production and posting of the dungeon map, but that only inconveniences you, not me.

Their troll-catching plan was amazingly stupid. The Illusionist illusioned himself as a "delicious human", tied himself to a stake near a troll's den, and then...

They didn't bother coming up with a 3rd step.

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>>52992226
please tell me there is a version of D&D where dwarves braid their beards I just jizzed myself

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>>52992274
Because some fighters are a subtle and sneaky as a tornado in a china shop and some rogues can barely fight their way out of a paper bag. And you're describing a fighter-thief multiclass from AD&D.

Therefore it seems the solution to your conundrum (if there even is one) is to just import AD&D multiclass rules.

>>52992355
You don't need a 3rd step. The 3rd step is improv.
Desperation breeds inspiration, and all that.

The REAL question is,
Why would that require an illusion?

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>>52992319
>Also, also, how do lycanthropes operate during an eclipse?
Canon: I dunno, ask Van Richten
Non-canon: involuntary transformation to human (or whatever) form for both werebeasts and beastweres.

>>52992356
Yeah, it's 3e

>>52992371
Will probably do this

>Lycanthrope discussion

Daily evil GM reminder that the moon in the real world often comes out during the day and daytime werewolves could totally be a thing

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>>52992545
If werewolf is on the moon doe he get more powerful or less powerful?

>>52992649
He asphyxiates from lack of oxygen

I wanted to post the ancient screencap of this question but it has been lost to the dungeon of my image folders

>>52992274
So essentially a fighter/thief then? It could work. Honestly, fighter/magic-user is the more interesting combination to me.

At low levels, magic-users only have a few spells and spend most of their time cringing, armorless and frail, with shitty, low-damage weapons. At high levels, they have a ridiculous number of spells to throw around and can bend reality a little too freely (granted, less in Basic than in AD&D). I think there's a happy medium here that hews closer to a swords & sorcery take on things. Magic-users get fewer spells (at least at higher levels--you could leave their low-level spells alone, especially if you bar them from the really powerful ones like sleep, or maybe bump those up a level) but are significantly less useless in combat. At the very least, let the poor bastards use light (but non-dinky) weapons like short swords, so they aren't next to useless in combat.

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>>52992392
>The REAL question is,
>Why would that require an illusion?

I DON'T KNOW.

But they did it anyway.

is it possible to be a snowflake in OSR?

What is the white hack about?

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>>52993031
It's a little hard.
>OD&D: entirely DM dependent
>B/X: use that one Dragon article about custom classes
>BECMI: steal one of those weirdo classes from the Voyages of the Princess Ark
>AD&D 1e: Not really possible unless you roll either half-ogre I guess
>AD&D 2e: setting canon gives plenty of excuses for DMs to put their feet down but there's so much material there

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>>52993153
As an aside, I know that TSR's "oriental people to depict oriental classes" art was kinda racist, but WOTC's "politically correct" approach result in more Whites and Blacks than Asians in art for oriental classes.

So I was reading Goblin Punch and marveling at all the bugfuck crazy wonder and wanting to implement it into my game, but I don't want to alienate players by going 'haha look at all this weird shit I bet u don't have the slightest clue, I bet u thought you'd be fighting goblins and avoiding pit traps but U WERE WRONG, ur spell is an actual creature that lives in ur head, and the goblins are fungusmen and the pit traps are actually permanent gravity reversal traps that launch you to the ceiling and make you navigate the dungeon upside down if you survive, and this is all in the nearby town dungeon at level 1.'

What's your personal threshold for 'crazy weird shit' before you start rolling your eyes and losing faith in the coherency of the setting? Do you prefer to slowly increase the weird but start fairly normal, or would you rather jump right in and get used to the weird right off the bat so you know to expect the unexpected?

So, I've been craving to run something old school, and players seem to be responding to the idea of Stars Without Number.

1. Anything I should know before running it?

2. I've been thinking "weird horror mixed with Star Trek: TOS" as a tone. Will that work?

3. How's it balance with B/X? Could I reskin Keep on the Borderland to be about an isolated outpost on a planet full of hostile aliens?

>>52993324
Have the weird be up front from the beginning and use the crushingly mundane for contrast.

>>52993401
SWN is slightly crunchier than B/X due to having a skill system

>>52993324
But I would play that, unlike done of the shit shoveled our way now.

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>>52993324
Considering his mentality, it amazes me how much good content he consistently puts out.

>What's your personal threshold for 'crazy weird shit' before you start rolling your eyes and losing faith in the coherency of the setting?
If establish 'incoherent' as the direction straight out the gate; my eyes immediately start to roll, but then I'll never lose faith in the setting.
That said, you can do go overboard on 'crazy weird shit' without being incoherent, if you're careful.

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>>52993324
>ur spell is an actual creature that lives in ur head,

My players, who are new, took to this idea immediately. It made /more/ sense than most D&D magic systems. "Your brain is a gun. Your spells are bullet-ferrets. You get a bigger gun with more chambers as you level. It takes an hour to load your gun and your bullets come back each morning."

Done. And it's brilliant.

>nd the pit traps are actually permanent gravity reversal traps that launch you to the ceiling and make you navigate the dungeon upside down if you survive,

I'd do that... about once, in a context where it makes sense. It's a gimmick, not a touchstone. In a wind-based dungeon, or some sort of magic cave of floating beholders, sure.... but not everywhere.

The main thing is "steal what you like, chuck the rest." The threshold for crazy is where it stops being coherent for you or breaks the expectations of your players. The fewer expectations they have, the better.

But yeah, start off with some weirdness, but make it consistent weirdness. The players will like gravity traps better if if there are druids flying around on gravity-neutral stone circles or if the local cathedral has benches on the walls. The weirdness can't just be in the dungeon.

>>52993324
>ur spell is an actual creature that lives in ur head,
http://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2013/06/frog-pox.html

I want to make a rules light OSR home-brew. I know there are a million of them out there, but it's always fun to make your own.
I have a few guidelines for what I want to achieve; a) Keep it broadly OSR compatible, so that conversion back and forth between my stuff and other people's stuff is straightforward.
b) Make it fit onto a few sheets of A4 that can be folded up to fit in a back pocket.
c) Remove as much fiddliness as possible, but keep it engaging for the player. This is the hardest part.

For a), I think at a bare minimum I'd need to keep PC levels and NPC hit die. That way, when you're converting you'd know that whatever else, it should be relative in power to PC/NPC of the same lvl/hd in any other OSR system. movement, AC, etc I'd probably just describe in terms of "normal human", "chain mail" and so on. For modifiers, I'd describe them as +1, -2 etc, but what that +/-[X] means may be different in my rules.

c) Thinking using (dis)advantage for as much as possible. So a +1 modifier would equate to 1 extra roll, +2 = 2 extra rolls, etc. Halve the amount of ability scores. Or even remove them and make it something like Combat/Skills/Luck. Maybe Modifier ranges from -2 to +2 (again, applying (dis)advantage rather than numerical bonuses). One saving throw that gets easier based on level. Ability/skill type checks keyed off the 3 ability scores. Advantage for having training in a skill. Disadvantage for anything that would normally require special training that you aren't trained in.

Dice. Should I keep the standard polyhedrals, or make it all d6's?

What OSR concepts do you think must be reflected in the rules?

>>52993324
>spell is an actual creature that lives in
The Colour of Magic is one of the first fantasy books I actually read.
That feels right at home.

Did anyone here already used monsters from VotE? How are they?

>>52993324
Make things seem normal, but make it weird as they get more into it. The goblins are normal, the PCs fight them like normal goblins. When they look a bit more into how goblins work, they realize that they're fungi. That way it doesn't seem like you're smacking them over the head, but instead letting them discover and figure out the weird shit on their own.

>>52994497
Honestly, that's the most disappointing way to do it. It feels like you've been cheated.

>>52994247
Just keep in mind that getting the better of two rolls is worth about a +4 on a d20, so it's a good deal more powerful than, say, getting a +1 to your chance to hit. Additional dice will give you diminishing returns, but you're already pretty far ahead.

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>>52994497
Why should fungus goblins be any more weird than regular goblins? They're both goblins, you know. That's pretty weird.

A dragon that can swim isn't any weirder than one that can breathe fire.

>>52994562
How is having something be more interesting than mundane disappointing?

>>52994598
Player's of a game won't think that a goblin is weird. They will think a fungus goblin is weird because it's not part of common myth and the modern fantasy zeitgeist.

>>52994598
Never mind that dragons aren't known for swimming, a dragon that /can't/ swim would be pretty strange.


>>52994671
>How is having something be more interesting than mundane disappointing?
You feel cheated because you're told, retroactively (from your perspective), that you've been doing something outside your expectations.
Regardless of wether it is more or less interesting, you come away feeling like your agency as a player has been siphoned away.

>>52994671
>not part of common myth and the modern fantasy zeitgeist.
All my players play warhammer, fungus goblins is pretty par for the course for anyone in that interest range. Which is why I run goblins as mundane while other really weird things take center stage.

>>52994722
>You feel cheated because you're told, retroactively (from your perspective), that you've been doing something outside your expectations.
That's absurd. How do you feel cheated if something you didn't expect happen during a game? That's exciting, it's a mystery, it's worldbuilding, and it's new.