/HHG/ The Horus Heresy General

Will 8th keep /hhg/ great?

>>52892045
No anon. Angelus will.

>>52892045
>>52892056
We're doomed.

>>52892045
>>52892056
Whatever happens in terms of them porting age of darkness game rules into any new edition of 40k, I really hope they do finish things off with rules for BA, DA and WS for the current edition. Even if Book 9 had to contain rules for White Scars for both 7th and 8th edition 40k, it would mean we'd have a complete set of rules covering every single legion, the mechanicum/dark mechanicum, auxilia/militia/cults, and daemons. Obviously the problems (under/overcosted units) would be locked in, but it would be a complete edition there for those that want it.

>>52892045
I think it will. We are not affected by any fluff changes (which by the way I don't think is going Age of the Emperor which is a stupid meme) and 7th edition was awful. Honestly I think 8th looks cool and will let me get some friends back to the hobby and finally play 30k. But I understand why people fear changes specially in more competitive levels.

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So what do you want from Angelus, peoples? Personally I just want a decent Mechanicum Elites choice other than my Enginseers, since cool as two guaranteed repairs per turn is, you'll almost never wish you spent the other 105 points on two groups. One works well for hanging out with the Magos Reductor, though.

>>52892952
As a BA player here's my wish list/unreasonable expectations. Obviously Sanguinius will be in, but I'm hoping that Amit and Azkaellon are in.

Sanguinary guard of course, maybe some sort of OC terminator unit, possibly the Lamentii guard that are talked about. Don't know what other units we might get.

>>52892952
I'd want balanced rules and Inferno fixing, but they'll never do that, so...
I'm aware I'm asking imposibles.

>>52893006
Honestly toss an FaQ out on a couple things, make Mind Wrath only work on Witchfires not the subacategories for D novas and beams, make having -things to hit only take to 6 at max, remove the misericordia and errata up the ppm of Sekhmet by about 15 or 20 ppm and you're mostly good, save 3++ rerollable BS, but maybe cap that reroll at a 5++ so it becomes less invulnerable.
Did I miss anything there?

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What are you working on /hhg/? I'm getting some paint on my grave wardens.

>>52893206
Leman's armour could use a bit of toning down.

>>52893206
>Did I miss anything there?
Everything that's broken outside the thousand sons legion.

>>52893379
I mean, it's not like the vast majority of units were going to melee down a WS9 Primarch anyway, and it's fun to tease the Yiffs about their Primarch only winning due to wearing an inverse freezer. Shoot the bastard like most do to every Primarch, he's barely tougher than Fulgrim at range.

>>52893392

Which are? I got the Praesdium Shields, the random knives. Oh yeah, also give the Secutarii Arc Rifles their proper stats and reword the Magnum Dickbikes so they pay 25 for one of their weapon upgrades per bike.

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>>52893316
Adding the finishing touches to my squad of veterans and working on a land raider

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>>52893316
>world's fastest death guard
Seriously, you build and paint like a machine


Any of you guys (especially DG guys, pic related) do much Zone Mortalis?

>>52893518
>Which are?
Off the top of my head:

Breachers are shit.
Destroyers are shit.
Recon squads are shit.
Artillery is undercosted, you see medusas in far too many lists.
Quad mortars are too versatile.
Sniper-flamers are stupid.
Deredeo is too close to an auto-include.
Dark angels D3 VP thing.
Iron hands special infantry isn't any tougher than generic units with an apothecary, which are also usually cheaper.
Space Wolves problems with losing special rules for integrating characters into squads, while having to take lots of characters in the army. Also Varagyr are overcosted.
The whole chainaxe points-cost silliness.
Hammerfell ROW is awful.
Night raptors are overcosted.
Blade of perdition is ridiculous. So's the power glaive.
Invictarus suzerins are also ridiculous, and need toning down.
The mhara gal and headhunters (including the generic banestrike rules) are shit.

...and that's just legions, not even going into auxillia (hello malcador infernus) or mechanicum (hello reductor bullshit and 40k grav). And I've probably forgotten loads of stuff. There's a lot more that needs fixing that the thousand sons, basically.

>>52893681
I like it. It's a totally different game with different considerations. I'd say Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, and Salamanders also do extremely well in zone mortalis. The traditional "tough" legions.

>>52893206
>Honestly toss an FaQ out on a couple things
I've always wondered if it should be "a FAQ" or "an FAQ". I lean towards the latter since I pronounce it "eff ey kew".

But yeah, it'd be a great time to give us the FAQ we so desperately need. Or... redo all the red books except the Legions book since it makes sense to wait until the Scars are out.

Does it even make sense for the generic Legiones Astartes book to be separate from the Legions (-specific) book? No one's going to use just one of the two if the remaining legions and Blackshields get written into one of them.

>>52893685

Book 7 had cheaper upgrades than previous books. I think the older, higher points values made more sense but let's at least make them consistent.

Support squads should be more attractive.
Heavy support jetbikes' weapons upgrades are overcosted.
Scorpius might be overcosted.
Stormbird, Thunderhawk, and Mastodon seem overcosted.
Cerberus needs help
Nearly half of the legion-specific Terminators need help.

>>52893685
Literally the only thing there that was in Inferno is the Wolf bullshit, and I wasn't buffing things, or I'd have given Secutarii their S3 Flechettes back and dropped the WC of that Tsons sniper unit power by one, plus a Sagittarium get themselves a 5pt price cut and Relentless to tide them over.

I will admit a bias due to playing Reductor, even if I run Basilisks, but it's specifically Medusae that are undercosted, never had anyone complain about two bassies at 3k. The 40K grav is our anti-primarch kill radius since we have no counter-deathstar, it's very good but expensive and slow as fuck. Be slightly creative and shoot it, the transport is either more than a Spartan with less HP or AV12 side and rear while being gigantic. I admit it could be better cut down to something like 10" range.

Not going to fuck about with underpowered units since I'd just break them in the other direction, but all the other lists have their own problems. Thallax cost more than Custodes with a couple upgrades, Auxilia and Milita's basic infantry infantry is utterly worthless unless used for dedicated transports or made into discount Marines, all that jazz.

Yes, this game isn't exactly balanced, but it's nowhere near impossible to slap some patches on Inferno.
Actually, if I was FW I'd just get the rules peoples together for an afternoon and just go through that giant list of issues, not like publishing corrected unit entries is hard.

>>52893941
Frost weapons not so much. You're paying power fist money for a +1 str. power weapon with MC and specialist weapon. And power fist + 5pts. for the MC power scythe.

>Support squads should be more attractive.

Non-compulsory Troops?

>Scorpius might be overcosted.

I think squadrons might help it. Put it in with the rest of the artillery tanks. That way you have no reason to take a regular whirlwind.

>Nearly half of the legion-specific Terminators need help.

Make them all W2 and able to be taken as Terminator Bodyguard for terminator Praetor/Primarch.

Which version of the Sicaran is superior in terms of having the most tactical applications?

>>52894184
The normal one. It's good against things that jink, infantry, Rhinos and other light tanks, while the Venator is really there to stunlock superheavies. So no contest if the question is which has the most applications.

Thing is though, there are fewer substitutes for a Venator.

>>52894245
Hm. That is helpful. I'm just trying to decide which one to spring for in my Alpha Legion

>>52893941
>Scorpius might be overcosted.
Wut. It's insanely efficient for 115 points.

>>52894152
>make them all w2
5/10, hope you get 4th degree burns you pathetic troll

>>52894617
>5/10, hope you get 4th degree burns you pathetic troll

Don't see you coming up with anything better.

>>52894152
>>52894617
>all terminators are made W2
>SOH players complain
>justaerin made W3
>some other legions' players complain
>red butchers, deathshroud and firedrakes made W3
>etc.

>>52894679
Show me the "weak" legions specific terminators then : grave wardens ? Gorgons ? Phoenix guards ?

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Here's your new dreadnought statline.

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Oh look, 2 wound terminators base.

>>52894764
That dreadnought is as tough as mortarion and vulkan stat wise, 8 edition is going to be FUN

>>52894797
>M5"

So are Marines gonna be M6"?

>BS3/WS3

lol

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Here's Guilliman

>>52894827

3+, not 3

That ends up the same as WS/BS4 was before.

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>>52894797
>>52894764
>WS is a flat roll, it doesn't matter what you're fighting

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>>52894764
[SCREAMS IN BINARY]

>>52894617
Why should only some legion terminators get 2W

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>>52894827
Here's tac squad.

>>52894843
Except not affected by enemy WS. Unless they can come up with an even more complicated system for that.

>>52894761
Relatively speaking? Probably Lernaean Terminators for the Alpha Legion.
They're cheap, but only get Stubborn for their 3 point per model increase, they have few special options or abilities. They can take a Conversion Beamer, but a long-range gun on a unit of fairly CC focused Terminators is quite odd.

>>52894867
>Ld7

>LaughingNLsluts.jpg

>>52894867
>Ld7
To be honest, that's probably a good change actually. I did feel leadership was on average too high across the board, and effects that work off leadership were fairly pointless as a result.

>>52894930
>>LaughingNLsluts.jpg
There's more than one?

Made my first order, which was for Thousand Sons conversion kits. Slightly regret it though, because I also love the Night Lords and their sorta underdog state. Plus, they have the coolest battlecries.

Almost tempted to try calling ForgeWorkd and asking to change the order to Night Lords kits, but I'm guessing that's not an option. Plus, I feel like Thousand Sons are better for me since they're considerabky cheaper.

>>52894867
>inb4 guardsmen are Ld. 5
>conscripts Ld. 4

Squad broken.

>>52894905
I think part of the problem is they effectively have to buy volkite chargers, and most people don't bother giving their terminators those if they've got the choice.

>One big change is vehicles. These now use the same profile system as everyone else. As you’ll see though, their stat lines are much above what you might expect from a standard infantry trooper. Wounds, for example, are not capped at 10, so don’t be surprised if you see larger vehicles like Land Raiders and Imperial Knights with dozens of wounds.

>>52894866
Perhaps because the salamanders, death guard, son of horus and world eater are already tougher than the rest of the legions and they select the toughest amongst them to form terminator squad ? Besides 2w don't help against power fists. i'm a sallie player and i'd rather have cheaper but 1w termie squads over the super expensive firedrake

>>52895042
>dozens

How many will fucking titans have?

>>52895042
>warlord titans with 100 wounds
>psi-titans regen 33 on average
It's a good day to be a princeps.

>>52895051
So why aren't all of their terminators W2?

>>52893206
Lots of stuff.
Leman Russ' armour, tactical Vikings shitting cheap power weapons, Sekhmets having 2W in the first place, motherfucking Scoria, a bit of the Tribune of Mankind, Gorgons not having 2W or being T5 base (2W better), DA's penality is too severe while Wolves have like 2.5 worth of LA rules and Sweeping Advances aren't a fucking penalty, neither do the TS have real penalties to their Mutable Witchery tactics, among a few others.
Also, Veterans are simply too good and there's little reason to bring Tacticals instead of grabbing a Delegatus or PotL

>>52894961
Why not do both as allies?

>>52893681
I'm pretty sure Custodes anon and Death Guard are the most prominent painters/builders.

Didn't Custode anon just post his Jetbikes yesterday? The day they ARRIVED?

>>52894977
also true, but even if you discount that, the AL terminators are essentially something you can build using normal Legion Terminators, Stubborn is good, as is WS5, but it doesn't really make them feel like the Legion Specific unit they're supposed to be.

>>52893685
>or mechanicum (hello reductor bullshit and 40k grav)
Also this. Their troops now shit anti tank. That amount of haywire was a mistake. And yes, Shas, I'm talking about the Vultarax as well.
Also, make quad mortars 0-2 or something, and literally both remove the Deredeo and grant the Boxnoughts a buyable +1AV upgrade or something like that.
>>52893722
>IF tough
I won't deny they're good at it, but it's not because they're tough. They're just good at it, since with a bit of imagination everything is a boarding operation, just like how Morty thinks everything is in space and rams it with a starship.

>>52895073
Forgot to add that within their termie squads there is another layer, to be a deathshroud you have to be selected by mortarion, to be accepted amongst the firedrake you need to be tough both mentally and physically, the justaerin are number less than a 100 and as such the selection process isn't open to every terminator within the legion and the red butchers are little more than rabid dogs, lost to the nails.
Not every terminator meet these conditions, they're not the symbol of their legion for nothing

>>52893804
I say fak :^)

>>52894057
>if I was FW I'd just get the rules peoples together for an afternoon and just go through that giant list of issues, not like publishing corrected unit entries is hard.
I do wonder why they never do that. Bam, corrected in less than a month.
FW Martial Hubris.

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>Strength and Toughness are still with us, and still use an opposing value principle (so much higher Strength will still wound on 2+, low Strength will wound on a 6+), and these aren’t capped at 10 any more either.
>and these aren’t capped at 10 any more either
>and these aren’t capped at 10 any more either
>and these aren’t capped at 10 any more either

>>52894152
>Wants everyone to have 2W termies and yiffs to have MC stolenscythes
Literal Ass Cancer Comunism.

>>52895293
If ID remains the same, then that means that Dreads can oneshot Castellax and Archmagi. There goes any reason to play Cybernetica over an IH dread list, especially when they have the same stats.

>>52894960
Like, a whole Legion :^)

>>52895334
ID is probably going to be replaced with Damage, so high strength attacks will do multiple wounds.

Also, imagine what a leviathan's stats will be like.

>>52894977
Exactly this. If you want power fists on top of that then it's hideously expensive for a job the regular termies could do.
I'd give them Chosen Warriors, base combi-bolters with free Banestrike, and access to 5pt Volkite chargers, as well as a Volkite Culverin (like the HWS squad) as their heavy weapon instead of a Conversion Beamer.
Perhaps that'd do it.

>>52895051
>i'm a sallie player and i'd rather have cheaper but 1w termie squads over the super expensive firedrake
...But you have them? You can give Storm shields to regular Cataphractii termies. Don't even need to give them meme hammers, power fists will do.
It's cheaper than the Fists version I think.

>>52895322
>Wants yiffs to have MC stolenscythes

You do realize they already got them, right? It's not a question of wanting anything, it's already a thing.

>>52895231
>red butchers are little more than rabid dogs, lost to the nails.
That makes them having 2W even less sense. It'd translate into 5 AP2 attacks per dude and FnP...And they do have that, plus Fearless and extra charges. Maybe they should have a better FnP, only one wound and Rending or Furious Charge so that power fists don't counter them and people have a reason to give them lightning claws instead of double axes.
Because srsly, why would anyone give them double claws when they have axes available?

I'm not sure about removing one wound from Firedrakes, but Gorgons should have two wounds (Bikes are the T5 IH squad), while Justaerin should be cheaper and only have a single wound, while Horus and Abaddon can bring a 2W speshul Justaerin squad or something.

>>52895560
Return Scythes, ya thieving bastards.
>WE are the gladiator legion
>Their axe is AP3 Shredding Unwieldy, while the SW's is AP2 @ In3 & Mastercrafted.
Does anyone use Caedere weapons, besides meteor hammers?

>>52894152
>>52894591
Sorry, meant to say the Scorpius is undercosted. Bleargh.

Though I don't think cost is the problem - I think artillery is just too good. It should be good at pinning (which should happen more) but not vaporizing fully armored squads, or even tanks.

>>52894761
Phoenix Termies are disputed; no consensus there. But most people agree about:

Varagyrs
Gorgons
The UM ones (good but so pricey no one takes them)
Lerneans.

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I wrote some rules for my Biologis forces to give them a little flavour.
It's split into some chunks of stuff, but do these look too OP?

Genetus Storm Maniple, subdivision of Ordo Reductor. Can use any FoC that works with the limitations, unlike Matrix of Ruin.

Limitations:

- Knowledge takes precedence - While perfectly willing to fight when required, the Genetors are still scientists at heart, and refuse to leave sole command of vital operations to the Unmaker Cohorts. Must take an additional HQ choice, which must be some variant of the Magos/Archmagos Prime.

- Aversion Protocols - Army must contain either two or more Adsecularis Covenant or Militia Levy squads. An army that contains one cannot contain both types.

- The Sealed Force - Haywire weapons in a Genetor army are reduced to 4+ glance, 6 pen.

- Preserve and Extract - Krios, Secutarii and Myrmidons are reduced to 0-1 choices (for both types of Krioae, Secs and Myrms, no "one squad of Secutors, one of Destructors"). Lose the ability to fire normal Medusa shells or to take Demolisher or Dual Melta arty tanks.

- The Thralls Unleashed - Automata of ANY kind are 0-1 choices per HQ choice, no Thanatar or variants allowed. They must be deployed attached to one or more HQ choices, regardless of having or lacking Patris Cybernetica, and the ICs can't leave that unit voluntarily. If the HQs attached to them are killed, they immediately go Malifica.

Bonuses:

- Masters of Flesh - Poison and Fleshbane weapons carried by this army gain Shred and enemies must reroll successful Feel No Pain rolls. Units with an Independent Genetor character with the Mechanicum faction gain 6+ FnP or a +1 to existing FnP.

- Analyse and Discard - Enemies in combat with Adsec or Levy squads that are under 25% starting strength can be targeted by Blast weapons. If the enemy successfully wipes out an Adsec or Levy squad in melee, the Genetor army gains Preferred Enemy against the enemy units involved in that combat.
(1/2)

>>52895757
>great frost blades become MC paragon blades

Also, don't worry, anon, 8th will bring you ASM, so even AP3 has its uses in dealing with any sort of armour. And just think about your chainaxes, when you not only wound better but also reduce target save by like 2 or something. And all that for free!

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Todays progress on my contemptor.
>inb4 my freehanding is shite

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>>52895833
Oh yeah, the Vulturax are b& from that army list, and allied HQ units don't count for the FnP or Boop restrictions - No FnP Ogryns from a Force Commander.

(2/2)

- Forged Guardians - The Cybernetica/IC units have no need for Cortex and autopass LoS attempts for their Magi.


So what do you guys think? Removed a lot of the AV capabilities, but you still have Lightnings and melee. In return, your tarpits lose their ability to hide enemy units for long and enemies that work their way through will meet barrages of bio-weapons that care not for endurance or bravery.

What should I do for Assault cannons on Tartaros and normal marines, rotor cannons?

>>52895837
To be honest, chaiaxes should either be stronger or have save modifiers, but not both.
I do want save modifiers in the game, precisely so that AP3 weapons still have an use and AP2 isn't such a premium game changer. Smooth transitions are fine, don't you think?
I was thinking about AP4 Autocannons and Heavy Bolters, and I think the save modifying mechanic would do wonders to the game.
Too bad they said it will use 7E forever, huh?
>Sekhmets gain +2 ML, force weapons and +1W with only +2pts per termie over Lerneans
Blighnade used to be based, wtf happened man? Even the court of the Crimson King feels a lot like a formation.

>>52895954
>barrels not drilled
>exhausts not drilled

>>52895062
Enough.

>>52896049
Whooooops
Now i have to get the drill, shit

>>52896075
>>52895954
Ya dun goofed kiddo.

nice painting though

>>52896059
If we go by the dreadnought, a Warlord Titan should have around 80 wounds.

>>52894838
>Primarchs move 8"
>Curze is going to move 16" then charge with fleet

>>52896216
I bet 10 bucks that the charge distance is going to be the movement value*2

>>52896268
>Sanguinius charges across half the board

I just realized that if their Galvanic casters retain a profile even vaguely like they are now Peltasts in 8th ed will be even more absurdly awesome due to massive AV ability. Current profiles would let a 20 man squad on lucky dice rolls glance a few HP. 8th ed they will hammershot it to bits the instant they have line of sight to it.

Of course, given the rules they have mentioned so far a squad of Guardsmen armed with bare fists stand a realistic chance of punching it to death on a charge with zero losses.

>>52896295
>longways

>>52895954
I like the helmet swap, but I don't think you should have filled in the area around it, looks stuck in place now. As it obviously can't be changed physically at this point, maybe paint a black semicircle around the helmet to represent a rotating stage type thing?

>>52896295
Remind me of that dark crusade build that could go at 500kmph

>>52896317
>a squad of Guardsmen armed with bare fists stand a realistic chance of punching it to death
I'm guessing the S/T table will require 9+ (two sixes in a row) for that. And the bonuses you get for charging might not include an extra attack.

>>52896374
S3 vs T7 has them punching away 2-3 wounds on a dread, hopefully there is a new 'to wound chart' otherwise:

>Bjorn barely survives his brutal melee with a squad of rioting civilians
>finally the feudal world beer hall has been secured, many of his fellow ancients lie fallen
>lurking in the rafters is his doom, ready to pounce
>Ragnar cries out a warning but too late
>"Above you Fell handed, beware! A ratling!
>"He has a board! WITH A NAIL IN IT!"
>Bjorn looks up a split second before the rusty nail enhanced chair leg cleaves his sarcophagus
>"Finally i can rest"
>

>>52896532
I remember reading in the NL trilogy a handful of prisoners was able to ruin a thunderhawk with what they found in said prison.

>>52895216
Aren't IF effectively toughness 5 with the right ROW? Plus storm shield vanilla terminators are handy.

>>52896594
What was the novel where peons throwing rocks took down an Eldar tank?

>>52896532
All this means is that things are resolved quicker. I for one welcome the quick death hammer. Maybe I'll get more than a single game in a night.

>>52896317
I'm assuming you've given the guardsmen +1 attack on the charge to get that result. Do we actually know if that'll still be a thing in the new edition?

>>52896670
Don't remind me of C.S Goto.

Fucker had a terminator backflipping on a land raider while shooting at an eldar who was also backflipping on another vehicle.

Also, if I remember right, the eldar pick up and use human weapons because they like them more.

>>52896532
In AoS, can units not in base contact contribute attacks?

>>52896532
>guardsmen all link together to form a massing guardsman that walks and punches out a knight.

>>52895143
As nice an idea as that is, I don't really like allying armies until I at least have a fully functional army at the standard point level.

That said, I'm not unhappy with my choice to go Thousand Sons, it's probably just a case of what could have been. Although I do like the Night Lords' sense of brotherhood, despite their fucked up ways.

>>52896762
Every melee weapon has a range, so most stuff like swords etc. have a range of 1", while spears have a range of 2" meaning you can get more attacks from a blob of dudes. Some rarer things, pike type affairs, have longer ranges.

>>52896804
Well, if you think about it, if you had enough lasguns you could destroy just about anything.
Especially if they are all hitting the same spot.

fuck off cancer

>>52896846
MEN, KEEP SHOOTING THE ANKLE! STRAGLERS, SHHOT THE ANKLE!
>HOW DO I TELL IF I'M A STRAGLER SIR?

>>52896846
Dunno, it looks to me like it'll take 36 lasgun shots to inflict one wound on an 8W dreadnought. I guess the question is whether Rapid Fire will still be a thing; it wasn't in 2nd ed, and one rumor was that we'd be going back to 2nd ed's range modifiers. A +1 at short range would mean 27 shots per wound. That doesn't really bother me.

>>52896911
>HOW DO I TELL IF I'M A STRAGGLER SIR?
If your buddy next to you is shot, and your uniform is still dry? Then you are a straggler and need to move closer.
>>52897055
I was speaking from a mild lore perspective, but I am optimistic about 8th ed and how it plays for 30k.

>>52895833
>>52895966

Anyone? Basically went for AdMech Death Guard, since the regular Reductor is Admech Iron Warriors.

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>>52893316
Magos Coalt got some mates, Also 90% finished the Atrapos knight and the rest of a 2.5k force in a single week............thank fuck for pod casts otherwise I would have went mad painting for 4 days straight.

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Doing BA because I like gay vampires hows this list, enough BRRRRRRRRRT?

2500/2500 BA The Day of Revelation

HQ

Damocles Command Rhino

Legion Praetor [485pts]: Artificer Armour, Blade of Perdition, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Jump Pack
5x Legion Command Squad: 5x Combat Shield, Jump Packs, 5x Power Fists

Elites

2x Legion Apothecaries 2x Jump Packs

Cortus Dreadnought: Chainfist , Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon, 2x Assault Cannons

5x Tartaros Terminators 2x Chainfist, 3x Power Fists
Anvillus Dreadclaw Drop Pod

9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Marksmen 2x Assault Cannons
Legion Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Power Fist

+ Troops +

14x Legion Assault Space Marines 3x Power Swords
Legion Assault Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Melta Bomb, Power Fist

14x Legion Assault Space Marines 3x Power Swords
Legion Assault Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Melta Bomb, Power Fist

Fast Attack

Anvillus Dreadclaw Drop Pod (Vets in here)

Xiphon Interceptor Ground-tracking Auguries

Heavy Support

Legion Vindicator Armoured Ceramite, Combi-Bolter, Demolisher Cannon

Main Idea is that all my jump pack stuff comes in T1 and prays that it survives to get into assault meanwhile the Damocles stops them from getting fucked by mishap and brings in the termies and vets to dakka

Is there anything I can do to stop being Medusa'd?

>>52897768
Looks alright, but I'm not sure the command squad is better than just putting our praetor (and maybe another character) into the assault squads. Give them a couple of power axes too, to mitigate being tarpitted by artificer or terminator armor. imo, Vindicators aren't hard enough for armored ceramite to be worth it.

Jetbikes or Javelins could do good anti-Medusa work.

>>52897055
Well SA and Peltasts are the shit now. Dreads can't even save against hammershot and anything that isn't at least as tough as a dread pisses itself at the sight of a blast charger.

I wonder if shred will still be a thing, galvanic casters S2 will go from useless AV to actually not that bad.

Also: Warlord Titan<Poison

>"Precepts, the foul xenos have a splinter pistol!"
>"Pull back in the name of Mars! We didn't know they would be so heavily armed!"

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_Quran

Pretty fucking Word Bearer to me fampires

Post real life people that would be in your legion

XVII:
-Tamerlane
-All the Caliphs and Mohammed
-Terry Davis creator of Temple OS
-Himmler
-Urban II
-Pius X
-Charles XII of Sweden
-Evola
-Guenon
-Martin Luther

>>52898096
>Well SA and Peltasts are the shit now.
We're not sure they'll transfer hammershot directly over, and it doesn't even look like HH will go to 8th ed rules for a while. Let's all stay calm.

Is it that easy to shoot down monsters or whatever vehicles AoS has right now?

>>52898219
>Martin Luther
Are you fucking retarded? He was against violence. I think you're looking for Malcolm X.

>>52898224
>it doesn't even look like HH will go to 8th ed rules for a while
It would be foolish for GW to encourage FW to go to 8th, as it stands xenos players who want to do HH (yes, they exist) need to own both 7th and 8th ed codexes. So any new player who picks up a xenos race (or wants to use any 40K army like IG, GK, SoB, ect) to play a HH game has no choice but to buy twice as many books.

That inventory of obsolete 7th ed codxes can still make GW some cash!

>>52898363
He was talking about the guy who founded the Protestant religion you illiterate moron.

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>>52898363
>write diatribes inciting violence against Jews and Catholics
>cause religious wars
>not Word Bearer material

wait... you thought I was talking about king nigger didn't you..

American education everyone

>>52898363
Also Martin Luther King beat white prostitutes in dingey brothels to get his rocks off. Subverted America to spread the influence of modern SJW cancer. Yeah, he actually might be Word Bearer material.

>>52898363
MERT

DAYMON

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>>52898219
>No Rodrigo Borgia

>>52898396
>>52898412
>>52898363

Point at the Salamander everyone, point at him and laugh.

>>52897489
Both spoopy and sneky - Magos, Scyllax and Myrmidons?

>>52898464
Well okay it was a stupid mistake. King was just the first I thought off as I have been busy with 20th century history a lot lately. I do collect salamanders...

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>>52898363
>American education

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>>52898363
>America
>in charge of education

>>52898464
>Read the fuckstupid comment
>kek
>kek some more
>pause
>wait, was that bait?
>re-read it.
>twice
>nope, the guy legit derped while flerping at someone else
>kek again
>slowly, sadly, stop keking as you realise people that under-educated not only exist, they exist in the playerbase of a game built around references, and they think they know things
>realise it's people like that that make Graham McNeil stop the plot of his books to explain things to the reader as if they were complete retards and we end up with such deep imagery as Magnus on the planet Morningstar
>these are the people you share a hobby with
>that're lowering the collective intelligence and quality of the product because they're actually ignorant
>the ignorant kind of ignorant where they don't even know it and act like they're educated
>realise I've chain-smoked throughout this entire trip into intellectual hell
>consider reading Camus to cheer myself up
>at least the guy was a Salamander
>they're bros
>he didn't mean it
>it's not his fault he's american
>he's just a product of his culture
>he can learn
>all will be well
>all will be well

>>52898804
Go listen to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast series, "Prophets of Doom." Not free anymore, but worth it. It's about the Muenster Rebellion, when a Protestant cult started up in a town in Germany and got really weird, really fast.

(Not saying Protestantism is cultish in itself, but its emphasis on God speaking to and through individuals led to cult leaders getting more attention than they would have in the past.)

>>52898843
Yeah great let's have a "everyone hates on America" party. You know that if any other country had been the most powerful in the world in modern history shit would be even more fucked up? Yeah some things in the USA suck but if you all didn't suck so hard either we wouldn't have to do so much around the world. But we're really derailing the general so can we just except I fucked up and move on?
Anyone knows why it's taking so long with the new primarchs? They released like 5 of em in 2014 right? I think they only released one late last year.

>>52898969
Protip: if your intention is to prevent further to derailment of a thread, maybe don't go on about how america is best at everything in the same post.

>>52898969
>actually lashing back out of butthurt
>here's what i have to say MOVING ON
Learn to fucking banter, people are just laughing at you a bit, not fucking tearing into you like you're some king homo pony furfag or something.
Oh and generic answer you already know to you're generic question you came up with to try and change conversation topic.

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>>52898969
>You know that if any other country had been the most powerful in the world in modern history shit would be even more fucked up?

The fact that you unironically believe that is the most >American education thing in this thread

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>>52896216
>Mortarion STILL moves faster than Primarchs with Jump Packs, and has an assault range bigger than Sanguinius', since Swooping FMCs cannot charge.
*Teleports behind you, throws scythe at a passing plane*

>>52898219
>Post real life people that would be in your legion
Me
Bitter people (like me)
IVth
.-.

>>52897489
Two Volkite culverins, two Irrad Engines and two Conversion Beamers? Glad to see you didn't go full Gravimeme.

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>>52898219
>Blood Quran, a holy text written in blood
Eh, fuck the Word Bea-
>Displayed on a mosque whose minaret towers resemple AK47 barrels and Scud missiles
Oh my...
Hey why don't we have a plane-carrier-looking cathedral? Or a cathedral-looking plane carrier at least? That shit sounds fun.
I'm certain my fellow IWs and IFs will agree.

>>52894905
I want to like/build a squad of Lernean but I just can't do it. I don't like cataphractii, having to give EVERYBODY volkite, chain axes... literally only love the conversion beamer.

>>52899518
It is hard to justify the points, sadly.

Am I missing something, or is it going to set me back like $70 USD to buy five MK3 marines with Word Bearer upgrades?

>>52899624
With shipping, close enough lol. Welcome to FW. Waiting for tip money to pay for a MkIV Headhunter squad.

>>52899544
I wish it were only that. I'm more into fluffy armies but it requires way too much eBay hunting for the extra goodies so I don't completely bankrupt myself getting termies, weapons, XX shoulders etc... All for a unit that I basically just like the name/function of.

>>52899681
Cripes. I can see why recasters are so popular. That's an insane amount of money.

Is there a place to post lists?

>>52899966
You can post it here, but only if it is a 30k army.

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>>52899980
Fuck you namefag take it off, you know everyone hates it and you

>>52899884
Yeah, it sucks. I've kinda justified it to myself just getting paints/and basic, weapon less marines or termies through FW and getting odds and ends through people on eBay selling legit FW stuff. Only bought recast from Hong Kong once, but it was this dark grey color and felt more like plastic than resin.

May have found one lately where the casts are more "resiny"

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>>52899730
>All for a unit that I basically just like the name/function of.
F

>>52899884
Yeah. Though if you're doing Mk III you really should be using Burning of Prospero marines as your base and then spreading the upgrade packs around (I wouldn't give everyone a legion-specific torso, for example).

But yeah, I totally understand if people get a decent chunk of their armies as recast. I probably will too if I go though with an outrider+jetbike army.

When a Rapier got hit by Grav Flux Bombard, do the crew members make T test with T4 or T7?

>>52901286
I would assume majority toughness so t4

>>52901286
I'm an idiot. It's the S test not T test.

...what happens to a model without S value then? Auto-wound?

Does GW still allow models to be up to 20% third party? My only store to play is a GW store, and I'm looking to get some of the khopeshes from Scibor for my Thousand Sons.

I asked the manager of my store, and he said he's fine with it "as long as you aren't a dick about it," which I believe he means don't advertise constantly that it's third-party. I'd like some official backing though, in case he goes back on that for whatever reason.

Can single Machine Killer Vets (melta spam) be viable anti-Spartan/Super Heavy choice?

>>52893526

Those are beautiful

>>52893526
Never seen Sallies like those before.

Are recasts in general any good?
They are tempting, but I'm always worried they are gonna look like garbage.

>>52902959
I don't think there is any real hard rule for it.
As long as it's just stuff like different backpacks or heads, it'll be fine.
Just don't expect to be fielding an army of "Space Warriors" armed with "Bolted machine guns"

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so what was Fulgrims mental disorders. I mean all the primarchs had some sort of mental illness? I myself say obvious narcissistic personality disorder. Borderline personality disorder. and perfectionism. what do you think?

>>52901851
Indeed, auto-wound

How well did Curze and Morty get along? A friend was asking, and I honestly don't know.

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>>52898219
relevant, for once

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>TFW Reikland Fleshade always make your first layer look like bronze until you highlight it

Always makes my butthole pucker

>>52903579

Ok, so apparently they were friends. But why? Curze was a bit of a psyker wasn't he?

>>52896268

As long as not random charge distance.

Fuckin murdered melee when they did that in the change from 5th to 6th.

>>52898910
Oddly enough- I feel the same about the US election

can a custard anon give me any tips how to paint grav tanks to an acceptable standard? I'm starting with a retributor armor spray basepaint, and now I'm not sure where to go next...all over with reikland fleshshade like a tiny custode?

>>52900078
Do not reply to tripfags.

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>>52904090
Stipple bronze to darken areas the way the official FW models are done.

Don't do the verdigris, but don't be afraid to use a greenish shade on gold. A cool shade on a warm color adds a nice form of contrast.

>>52903822
He was more of a latent psyker than a practicing witch. Also they both enjoyed brutally killing civilians so there is that

>>52897768
What are you going to use for your vet assault cannons? I thought FW only made them for Cataphractii. Curious for my dakka needs.

>>52897768
vet assault cannons look like a bad idea, since they're heavy weapons without suspensor webs on a unit that is pretty strong in CC, especially as BA
>>52904721
the rotor cannon models are pretty spot on for asscans

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>>52903112
Thank you
>>52903136
I don't like the bright green of 40k salamanders, the 30k fw scheme is much better

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I can't wait until more Solar Auxilia models get released for 8th-ed Horus Heresy!

>>52903593
I can't believe the credit whoever made this gave to bush and reagan
you can be conservative but there's a point where you've got to be deluding yourself
al sharpton is funny though

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Work continues on my Fists, any feedback from y'all?

>>52905105
He looks cools. Hopefully save modifiers will make power mauls viable.

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How do I differentiate my Hetaeron Guard models from the plebstodes? Their pic in Inferno looks like nothing special.

>>52905424
Make their gold, golder

>>52905441
>>52905424
Melt some real gold and put it in their armour

>>52903675
Pin-washing, you need to discover it

>>52905164
A man can dream. I love the look of mauls, so making them decent against 3+ saves would be nice.

>>52905424
Give them a silver trim or something
Alternatively, make them red with a gold trim

>>52905424
I didn't, to be honest.
Well, I gave all four running legs and they have the only vexila in the army, but they could be just as easily be Guardians (and they started out as that, too).
Once FW releases actual Paragon Spears my spear Haeteron will go back to being Guardians and the vexila guy will be added to the new unit.

>>52905976
>green lenses TS instead of blue
Shit taste. Paint job looks good though.

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>>52903675
Would you recommend Reikland Fleshshade for custodes in general? I mean, I am by no means a good painter, but I've used Seraphim Sepia so far and I've kinda liked it, but I feel like it might be too light.

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>>52894817
>>52899282

>>52906029
Reikland Fleshshade is usually the way to go because Sepia is too subtle.

However, I'm partial to a cooler gold look with whatever dark brown wash is called, or maybe even nuln oil if you go for nearly-silver highlights.

>>52905424
save up your cloaks you get in the box and give them to your companions

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>>52903335
> OCD
> Masochism
> Chops off peoples hands

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>>52906029
Reikland worked pretty well for me, though I had to put a coat of retributor on the smooth area

>>52905620
He's following Duncan's tutorial, m8.

>>52906029
Reikland is my favorite, honestly. It provides the deepest shade without being too aggressive and allows for easy highlighting.

Is an Archaeotech Pistol worth it on something like a Custode Captain with a Solerite Gauntlet?

It seems like the only time to take it would be for something like that or a Power Talon.

Any help on this?

>>52899395
Got 3 more myrms coming in the mail soon and sorry to disappoint but those will be gravs even though FW don't have a model for the guns yet which sucks. Going to try and run a Triarios column full of myrms some day as well.

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>>52906698
If you have the points left over it's an okay pick, but it suffers from the same issues plasma pistols do, i.e. a hard time to make their points back.
I strapped one to the side of the solerite gauntlet since having a gun on your melee weapon is just a custodes thing to do and style>substance.
Amusingly enough, in the fight in the pic the only wound I managed to get to stick on the Ironarm'd, Endurance'd Raptora Praetor all game was a shot from the archeotech pistol, by way of sheer dumb luck.

Does one of you have the Contemptor-Achillus? I've got a question on that model: The FW site states that the kit contains Lastrum Stormbolters, Infernus Incinerators and Andrathic Destructors; however, I can only find pics of Lastrum and Infernus. Are the Andrathic Destructors in the kit? How do they look?
Also, which weapon should be put on the model in the first place? The Heliothermic Detonation of the Lastrum is hardly reliable, but the range is better than the other options, the Andrathic has shit range and costs a lot, but it has a nasty statline, and the Infernus is just a fancy flamer, with all the good and bad that comes with that.

>>52903335

A combination of mania and narcissism, certainly. Fulgrim more or less felt everything intensely. When he was happy he was jubilant, when he was sad he was a depressed fuccboi (like when that painter told him that his artwork of the Emperor was not bad but not good either, and Fulgrim got turbo ass-blasted).

>>52907023

*but not great either

iirc he really didn't insult the work at all. He just said it wasn't perfect.

>>52907007
I've built two, and it comes with all the options; they look really good and don't stand out.

Personally, I believe the standard setup of just the Dreadspear is enough; or you can just run the guns and no spear, but that's a tad silly unless you run twin Adrathic. If you run the spear with the uograded guns you really run the risk of point sinking.

Leave the Flamers out if you can help it since the Galatus already covers that option, unless you just want to run one flamer and one bolter with the spear. As for Adrathic, running the spear with a twin pair is VERY costly, but if you fire them all into a pricey TEQ squad then you'll have an awesome time.

The more well rounded option is just equippng the spear, the best anti-horde is simply the flamers that could go on the Galatus, the best infantry killing one is spear with a flamer and bolter, and the best TEQ/vehicle killer is the most expensive with twin Adrathi and Spear.

I personally own one with just the Spear and one with Twin Adrathic and Spear.

>>52906933
I had a feeling; since it's the only model in the Custodes that can take an Archaeotech, I figured "Fuck it" for a fun model since I already have a Tankbune, twin Solerite Talons, and Ixion Hale.

>>52907033
>He just said it wasn't perfect.
It was the opposite. He said the sculpture was TOO perfect and therefore had no soul. Fulgrim stomped away in a hissy fit and swore never to sculpt again.

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>>52907069
>point sinking
With Custodes? Preposterous!

>>52907069
Man, I wish Hale didn't cost like €130 over here. It's such a good model, but there is a limit even to my willingness to pay for a single mini.
And before anyone chimes in about recasts: No, thank you. It's nice if those work for you, but they are not for me.

>>52907200
>limited edition event only models
Why is this allowed?

>>52907206
The company doesn't have to keep producing and stocking the model, they can charge extra for it or get people into their stores/events to buy it, add perceived value to the event/model, etc.

Man, every time I see a custodes model, no matter how good the paintjob, I just can't get over how bad they are as models, just way, way too much going on on there, odd shapes all over the place, just a fuckin mess, not helped by gold being pretty unforgiving for untidy models.

>>52907428
So mine>>52906519 looks like shit then ?

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Almost done....... just got decals and more weathering on this Knight and the rest of the army and 2.5k event prep is done.

>>52907530
The paintjob itself is pretty good
But the design of the models are just so busy and badly proportioned.
And their all-gold colour scheme makes them just garish.

It's like looking at a metal band logo, "wow, you guys put a lot of effort into this godawful creation", compared to a band logo that is just a name in a nice font.
But I guess it can't really be helped that when you try to make a new faction that is the elite of the elite of the elite of the elite.

>>52907568
Wow magos coatl, that looks great! I haven't been able to work on my Word Bearers due to university. Hope I can finish my Tartaros terminators this weekend

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>>52907643
But custodes have always been like that. It is, in fact, part of their appeal.
I mean, if you don't like it, fair enough, but I love their design. The only downside to them is the lack of the robes they used to have.

>>52893206
By the time Angelus comes out 8th ed will be in full swing
My theory is that Angelus will be released as an 8th ed book and as a build up to release books for Astartes, Talons, Mechanicum, Auxilia and Imperial Militia will be published with the 8th ed updates, meaning a complete overall for everything in Horus Heresy, so expect re balancing for nearly everything

Who knows, maybe World Eaters special units will be playable now :^)

>>52907702
This; the distinct lack of robes makes it kind of hard at times, but one can only hope FW will release a Hetaeron upgrade pack or something to fulfill our needs.

>>52907702
>>52907748
It sorta made sense to me
I mean you could argue the robes and the like are for ceremonial reasons, and when in battle they do away with them, wouldnt want the Tribune to trip over the curtain between his legs

>>52907702
I wonder how FW will do the Infernus Firepikes for the Aquilon.
As is, they can be carried as replacements for the Lastrum Stormbolter, which seems to imply that they will be carried in one hand instead of the depicted spear-thing.

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God. 1300 points of Custodes is really nothing at all.

I'm adding these to my main force, but god damn it's its own army. Marathoning the gold armor isn't as bad as I thought though.

>>52907942
>he just spray painted them gold
>they look better than mine
I hate these fucking janitors...

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>>52907967
This is the spray, a wash, two highlights, and still two more to go.

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>>52907942

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Damn, you paint fast and it all looks really cool. Not sure whether to go for a bronze like that or something like Duncan's SoS armour video for the armour on my dudes once the Malinax Knight's done, since that bronze looks really nice. I'm looking at a slightly washed-out green colour like pic related for the robes, not sure what colour to make the wires and such. May just steal the orange glow, since it's the only picture of a Biologis we have. Just finished a twat-ton of exams, so time to buy myself some presents.

>>52907992
You are gonna detail these with actual colours
r-right?

>>52908109
All you need is GOLD my friend!

>>52908109
Oh of course. This is literally step one of a dozen or so.

This is just me working on gold and wondering where I went wrong in life.

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>>52908033
Go for the washed out or dirty orange robes Biologist anon! very easy to do and dirty up. Fingers crossed Angelous gives us some new magos gear/art

>>52902959
Check the size of the Scibor khopesh, they're a bit bigger and clunkier than you may expect. Larger than the swords that come in the Scarab Occult box.

>>52907530
Actually I was thinking how nice your paint job was in comparison to the over-designed models it was on. >>52907643
summed it up pretty well.

>>52908541
also thinking on it more, what anon said about the robes, that was their saving grace, the fact that half the guy was a solid block of red acted as a sensible contrast to the trump-esque filigree of their breastplate decoration.

>>52908179
Robes will be that paleish green colour, syringes and lenses and glowy bitz will be orange, because blue plasma wouldn't work. No idea what to make Volkite and Power Weapons, though. Red cables, certainly. Nice to do two colours that aren't a massive pain in the ass to paint, though

>>52907428

Yeah, I agree with you there. Looks like someone took some third party Terminators and just vomited eagles all over them, there's nothing to give a break from the highlights and details.

I'm actually pondering the same problem with my Enginseers made from the Solar Auxilia medicaes, there's nowhere to attach a greenstuff cloak or servo-arm. May just remove the eagles and stick some Admech transfers on their coats and armour, they look good as is IMO.,

OK so apparently Reductor is bullshit, Cybernetica is bullshit and now Secutarii are bullshit.... what Mechanicum am I allowed to play without all of you faggots moaning like whiny litttle RPG bitches?

>>52907942
how is that only 1300pts wtf? looks like 2k at least

>>52908950
Stop being retarded and understand that people are only moaning about OP units in the context that they allow easy WAAC behaviour.

One unit of Sekhmets in a Thousand Sons army isn't the end of the world.

GotCK with full D Magnus, max sized Sekhmet squads and the rest of the army being Corvidae sniper vets with shredding bolters is WAAC.

No one reasonable will care if you play Reductor with an artillery battery, it just gets to bullshit levels when using the FOC that allows 12 medusa or whatever it is. Plus this is 4chan, why do you care what we think? If people IRL constantly whine at you for playing your list (providing it isn't WAAC) then it's your fault if you keep playing them anyway.

>>52908950
They're only bullshit of you make them bullshit, anon. Make a balanced, fluffy list and others will be cool with it.

Like I run a knight and some Secutarii in my OR list, but I'm not doing Medusa bullshit and taking Droplites. Though if you want to sneaky good then a 4/5 man squad of Ferrox Thallax with Chainblades melts vehicles and nobody thinks anything about it.

>>52908950
All of it, as long as you remove anything that isn't a Thallax, Archmagos Dominus or Domitar. I mean, avoid Vulturax spam and the boring 9 Medusae+ Tarpits build, but everything else is fine with warning. My reasonably powerful list has a squad of Droplites, some tarpits, two Medusas and a fully geared Macrocarid with three grav-myrmidons in as a command unit, since I'm up against boring Spartan+Leviathan spam with Primarchs constantly and I will continue stomping them until they change tactics to something less massively dull and toss in a flyer or some tactical blobs.

The tip I've found for making fair Mechanicum lists is to overspend on EVERYTHING while still taking powerful units.Thallax with Thrusters and Tank Hunting, 355pt Archmagos in 345pt Macrocarid, all the loot for the Arty tanks, Adsec with much loots etcetera. Toss in something fun every list, I have a squad of Ursarax. Makes lists that are more balanced and fun, since the only peoples without at least T5 W2 are the Secutarii Alpha and the Force Commander who has a 5pt Tainted Weapon for ID Rending when I decide to take him and his Levies over Adsecularis.

>>52909106
What would an interesting marine list look like to you? Or what would be something that you would find difficult to counter if you were playing your regular list?

>>52897438
I didn't understand what you were trying to achieve. Also, you get levy squads? And I don't remember records of biologis being less destructive than the Reductor...
Do we even have Reductor stories besides Caleb "This is the end, my only friend the end" Decima?

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>>52907428
i think the problem with most custodes paintjobs is how flat they are. One layer of wash is not enough for an all gold model model, they need a lot of contrast to look interesting

>>52909064
calls me retarded then talks about 1ksons? what a fucking idiot, go sit in the corner retard adults are talking

>>52909336
>Laughs in witch

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>>52909336

>>52909336
>Keks in sorcery

>>52909176
Different anon, but for me unique comes in two flavors- fluff and crunch.

For fluff, unique means an army that totally fits the theme of the army while mixing things up a little. Like an IH list featuring a heavy offensive use of vehicles interlocked with dreads and Gorgons, or UM allied with Auxilia to make a hammer'n'anvil theme, or IF making a Templar+Terminator heavy list that teleports/slogs upfield to really make the crusader thing work.

See, though they can be very powerful, it's cool and fluffy, so who gives a crap. Though paint your models or else the effect is gone.

For crunch, this is doing something perhaps a little outside the box, but the list itself works so uniquely it's cool to play. EC mixing bike spam with Palatine/Phoenix backup, WE drop-pod spam, etc. not unfluffy, just different and knit together well so it's really unique.

With OR I guess mixing both means something like 2-3 squads myrmidons (probably 1 destructor, the others secutors), some Tanks, kitted-out Thallax, maybe some ursurax, a pimpin archmagos, maybe secutarii sprinkled in, etc. Sure, it'll be good, but it's fluffy and cool so no one should complain. But paint all the models, seriously. That makes the theme come together

>>52909176
The lists I currently face primarily run Sniper Vets, two or three pod Leviathan dreads and a Spartan filled with Primarch and some special units, normally with a Primus Medicae. That means they're easy as hell to beat when you've got Haywire and a pain in the ass otherwise.

A Marine list counter would have some large tactical squads who could bolter through the hordes of 6++ Levies with no offensive output. (Cyber Augmented+Cult Horde), maybe flyers or javelin/Land Speeders who can cruise over them and Haywire down the vehicles, hell, even Support Squads in Rhinos would Tank Shock their way into effective range and literally anything with Volkite is devastating.
Most things other than a Primarchstar designed to get in a dickslapping match with another one while the Leviathans deal with anything that might possibly change the odds from the backfield. I've got one unit that packs 950 points of anti-deathstar, which works very well as bait.

I'm just bored of playing the same list in different colours and occasionally grey plastic every game, since I'm the only non Marine.

>>52909288
The Levy Squad thing was just in case you take Militia allies, although it would probably be only as long as you take Cyber-augmented. Personally I like the larger tarpits.
There are no Reductor stories other than Grand Theft Magos Calleb Decima, since no-one ever writes Mechanicum lore without filling it with Space Marines, and literally the only lore about the Biologis is that one picture I posted in the first rules post, although the Reductor literally spend their entire time wrecking shit and damn the consequences literally any other factions besides perhaps the Centurio Ordinatus would be more circumspect about things. I just wanted to add some flavour into the Whalebird Support Force and perhaps write some lore for them in the process, and I figured that internal conflict to an extent would be fun to justify the restrictions.

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>>52909619
Well, as you're probably aware the Reductor does have a biologis wing and the right to invent, by Imperial decree. Though I thought that part could be represented by a Reductor with Archmagos Lacrymaerta and lots of Adsecularis with FnP and Lacrimallus adepts in Triarii that ignore movement penalties.

>>52909336
>chuckles in psyker

Since we're on the topic of making memerimes interesting, does this list look interesting to plat against?

+++Iron Hands: Head of the Gorgon 3,000 RoW+++

Praetor: Terminator Armor, Cyber-Familiar, Paragon Blade, Digital Weapons
Terminator Command Squad: Land Raider, 4 Bodyguards, 2 Powerfists, 2 Chainfists

Tactical Squad: Rhino, Nuncio-Vox
Tactical Squad: Rhino, Nuncio-Vox

Quad Launcher Batteries: 3 Launchers, Shatter Shells
Gorgon Terminator Squad: Land Raider, 3 Power Fists, 2 Chainfists
Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought: Twin Kheres Assault Cannons
Contemptor Dreadnought: Chainfist, Kheres Assault Cannon, Meltagun

Javelin Landspeeders: 3 Speeders

Sicarian Battle Tank: Dozer Blade, Lascannon Sponsons
Vindicator: Dozer Blade
Vindicator: Dozer Blade

Imperial Knight-Errant

It fun, and a nice mix between normal and out there. Not 100% on the knight, though. Ideas?

>>52908346
That's a shame, if so. I'd like to get some khopeshes for my Thousand Sons, and it seems like Scibor is the easiest option.

Maybe I can shave them down or something. Already promised a friend of go halvsies on an order to save on shipping.

>>52909786
The Reductor have Biologis priests, yeah, but this is an entire Biologis War Covenant who have a few Reductor around to command the battles and teach the others how to into war. They've set off to go loot sectors of their interesting Xenos specimens, learn to kill them and make them into massive war machines, and they'll blast anyone who gets in the way thanks to that stupid Terran war.
The Lachrimallus thing is the "official" way to do something like that, but it's a little boring and as expensive as Solar Auxilia for way less variation in comparison. The actual army uses Ordo Reductor rules, but I thought I'd make my own just for the fun of the thing. There's far too little Mechanicum lore despite them being really interesting to really know whether that's viable or not fluffwise, but are the rules themselves any good?

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>>52910172
>are the rules themselves any good?
They'd need to be reworked, yeah. Some are very general and feel out of place, others feel more Cybernetica.
The inclusion of a Paragon of Metal as a walking testbed would be fluffy, since biologis are the ones who tend to the neural components of battle automata. Scyllax would also be in line with the army. Extremophiles made out of artificial inorganic flesh.

Can someone explain to me the point of making a weapon both Specialist Weapon and Two-Handed? Doesn't Two-Handed prevent any possible bonus from Specialist Weapon anyway?

>>52910637
I guess technically it means if you're attacking with another specialist weapon (that doesn't have two-handed) you do get an extra attack, because two-handed only restricts extra attacks when attacking with the two-handed weapon. My gut feeling though is that that's unintended, and giving something both rules is just forgeworld doing a whoopsie again.

So how would you represent Myrmidon cult on the table?

>>52909298
The white eagles on the helmets are fantastic.

>>52910802
... with lots of myrmidons?

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>>52910802
With Myrmidons led by a Myrmidax

>>52907741
Or Alpha Legion special units. A man can dream

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So, weapons.
I really hope plasma will be AP-2 at most

>>52910965
I don't know what you are talking about. Suzerains and Mor Deytan are great.

>>52910706
Considering the nature of AL power daggers, that actually makes sense.

>>52911052
Whats the sauce of this anon?

>>52911052
>power armor marines get a 6+ armor from a lascannon

Wtf

>>52911253
The usual place.

+++ Sons of Horus: The Long March 3500 ROW+++

Knight or Typhon?
Praetor: Cataphractii Primus, digital weapons, chainfist
Bodyguard:10 Justaerin, 4 chainfists, 6 power fists, 10 combi
Centurion: MoS, AA
Centurion: Chaplain

Apothecary
2xContemptor-Cortus: Kheres Assault Cannon and Power fist

Tac Squad: 20 man, extra CCW, vexilla, Sarge: AA & Powerfist

Tac squad: Rhino

Terminator Squad: Tarter-sauce armour, 3 Lightning Claw, Chainfist, Reaper AC, Dreadclaw, Sarge: Thunderhammer

Lightning Strike Fighter: Battle Servitor, Ground Augeries, 2 pair Kraken missile, (4 total), TL autocannon

Heavy Support Squad: 10 man, ML, flak missiles
Spartan Assault Tank: AC, Aux Drive, Dozer Bl, Flare Shield

War Machine Detatchment:
Knight Warden- Ironstorm Missile Pod, Occular Augmetics

OR

Typhon: AC

>>52911052
>Lastly, you can see that the flamer no longer uses a template. However, when in range, it causes D6 hits that do not have to roll to hit, and this applies even against units of a single model – this can be devastating, especially when used in large numbers.
>even against units of a single model
That's really interesting. Death guard and salamanders are going to be happy with that, makes their flamer dudes seriously versatile.

>>52911052
Welp, here begins the age of padded sumo. I mean, sure some guns were decimating everything in sight, but I was expecting higher from a Lascannon.

>>52911389
I know right? WTF?
Does that mean power swords will become worse instead of better?
>>52911427
So, flamers become better against stuff with less models but worse against units with lots of models?

Hey, I thought these changes wouldn't even affect HH.

>>52911427
>>52911052
Current Torrent flamers will probably have the same overall rules, but with way longer range.
Firepikes ahoy.

>>52911478
They're not going to for a while, at least, but I imagine they'll show up eventually.

>>52911478
D6 autohitting shots will still make hordes flinch, especially when massed.
And if you think the rules for HH won't eventually get adapted for 8th you are a very silly person.

>>52911460
d6 Damage is still potent. Five lascannons will make most deathstars (going by Girlyman stats) think twice about steping into their line of fire.

>>52911603
Eh, not really. Invulns will likely remain the same and wounds don't spill over, so those 4++ Cataphractii on a terminator Bodyguard will still tank and/or die like always.

So a noticeable change, but end result is effectively the same. Seems like that'll be the tune for most of 8th.

>>52911052
I'm really happy that high-power single-shot weapons will indeed be worthwhile for hitting vehicles and MCs. It always seemed a shame that it was so suboptimum to use those weapons compared to just spamming massed fire, because unless you got an Explodes! result you were only pinging off a single hull point/wound. But now*, funky things like laser destroyers should get serious work done.

*Well, okay, not "now" but whenever 8th comes out, and then FW updates the AOD rules.

>>52911052
Just imagine:
>Typhon dreadhammer cannon
>Range 24"/48"
>Assault 1
>S 10
>AP -4
>D D6
>This weapon ignores the effects of cover, if it hits it inflicts 3D6 hits on the target

>>52911898
Hot damn, Krios Venators are going to be fun. I wonder what the Ordnance weapons will get.

>>52911939

>Rolls 1 or 2 To Hit
>Entire blast vanishes.

Personally I'm pissed off about Templates vanishing. Everything else is fine.

>>52911967
Loss of templates is nice in that it shaves of a lot of time needed to make sure all models are at optimal coherency distance.

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>>52912021
Would also make pic related slightly less obnoxious.

>>52912021
Personally, I can see a lot of people sticking with templates. The change is pretty much the same, so it'll be alright to use Reggo template, though hellstorm (fuuuuuuuck the Malcador infernos is gonna suck) and torrent might be different

>>52912021
True, but it feels a lot nicer than just rolling a die and scoring that many hits, it actually feels like there's a big explosion slamming down on the battlefield. Speaking from experience with Coteaz's Psyber Eagle which is Assault D6, it's nowhere near as satisfying as a Flamer.

>>52912066

Torrent would probably just be 20" range rather than 8", but I have no idea what they'll do for Hellstorm. If they keep Cognis the same it's going to rock, though. Auto 6 hits, hell yes. They'll never do it, but a man can dream.
It's made Irrad Engines straight worse than Grav Imploders if they have AP3 = -2 and AP2 = -3, though, since Imps score more hits and cut saves more on average, which kinda sucks, although I guess we'll have to wait and see.

>>52907992
I really like that gold. It isn't too orange like the GW scheme.

>>52907568
Oh man, that copper is badass. The green goes great with it too.

>>52908950
Just go easy on Krios Venators, Vulturaxes, don't deep strike a bunch of Secutarii w/ haywire weapons in an Arvus Lighter to auto-eliminate a superheavy, and you'll be fine. Better if you take a take-all-comers list because it's less likely to be a hard counter to any other army.

>>52909856
I'd try to get more scoring units by dropping the knight. Otherwise it's fine. I wouldn't say quad launchers are interesting to play against - artillery generally isn't - but it's not unfair to include them.

Of the people that play 40k, what percentage would you guess also play 30k? 10%? 20%?

Or are most 30k players exclusively 30k?

>>52911460
Yeah, I had the same reaction. I thought a lascannon should have a slight chance of one-shotting a dreadnought, which would require a damage stat of... well okay, d10 or d6+d3 are clunky solutions and now I can see why GW didn't like them. I hope multimeltas get 2d6, they should be more painful than a lascannon.

It looks like there will be better saves all around than there were in 2nd edition, when the most common weapons had -1 armor penetration modifiers (shuriken catapults had -2!). Marines usually saved on a 4+, so it was a big shock for them to usually save on a 3+ in 3rd edition. I'm fine with basic weapons not having a modifier. But -3 for a lascannon still seems a bit weak.

>>52912169
>it actually feels like there's a big explosion slamming down on the battlefield
Agreed, but after, "Is it cover or is there no line of sight?" templates are the second-most common source of games slowing down for a round of rules-lawyering.

Besides, real life flamers get used in a sweeping manner and real life artillery lands at an angle and spreads shrapnel in more of a wedge shape.

>>52912504
for 7th ed it was definitely exclusively 30k.

7th ed was awful for fluff grognards and crunch grognards and 30k was stupidly advertised as balanced 40k while being treated like a historical game in some communities.

>>52912066
40k template usage is fucking awful though. Try accurately resolving aoe with a goddamn scatter die that bounces away from you and you have to eyeball. The process is slow as balls, inaccurate, and unnecessary.

If the templates were like Infinity or Warmachine where you can roll for direction directly on the template, it would be different, but even those system's aoe systems, I can't really say I care for.

>>52912169
Hellstorm is 2d6, easily done.

Tell me how I should base my Raven Guard /hhg/

>>52912910
It should be a light and warm color to contrast with their cool and dark armor - sand, maybe a faded reddish at most.

>>52912910

bright pink fields of flowers

Is there a mean to get maleficent demonology on a TS list?

>>52913144
Ally in Word Bearers and have them cast daemonology spells. That's the only option as far as I know.

>>52913106
I was thinking along those lines. Maybe Agrellan Earth/Badlands?

>>52913276
It works; Im basing my SoH with Martian mud as a contrast to their sea green armour

>>52911967
>Entire blast vanishes.

No, you just missed, hitting nothing of importance.

>>52912063
I sure hope so. I mean, I got a battery with phosphex like any self-respecting poison huffer should, and having all those blasts on hand is extra busywork and feels bad to just turn the table into difficult terrain (especially when you can just ignore it).

>>52912066
They need to get over it. There's a ton of wargames that manage just fine without blasts and templates.

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Quick question hhg.
When did the traitor legions start putting horns on their helmets? I assume after the isstvan campaign, right? Would it be too 40k if my iron warriors sergeants had these horned helms?

>>52911405
New to 4chan so I believe this is how you bump for a previous post; politely asking for some feedback from the veteran anons. Thank you for your time

>>52913947
Got nothing against it; probably more late Heresy when internal organization of the legion started to breakdown a bit, aka I HAVE THE SPIKY HELMET YOU LISTEN TO ME MAGGOTS

ahahaha - on latest 'Radio Faggotry Intensifies' podcast, Ryan whines about waac faggotry, unfun games etc as usual, then he proceeds to talk about his drop pods disabling over a third of his opponents army on deployment! Including negating his enemies interceptor units.
Great fucking job Ryan, you used point and click drop pod bullshit, what a fun list to play against that must be! Michael then proceeds to give Ryan a reacharound on his great tactical acumen.
Here's me thinking Ryan chopping off his Salamanders Firedrakes thunder hammers and equipping chainfists was bad enough.
Greets from the streets you utter fucking hypocrite whining fuckbags

>>52913952
A good bump would have an image and a comment on some other topic.

I'd go with the Typhon. Problem is I don't see a lot of scoring. The Justaerins will be too busy killing stuff to worry about objectives, the Tartaros look like a suicide squad, and you'll probably have to guard the missile launcher guys with the 20-man tactical squad (though together they can probably cover an objective).

Doesn't really take much advantage of the RoW, which encourages more podding.

>>52914004
How the hell do you disable Interceptor on Drop Pod deployment? I have a seething hatred for drop pods other than the expensive 100pts+ ones, since they're basically a free deployment of whatever you want wherever you want. Sadly, everyone has one filled with Grav Cents, it's one of the reasons I moved to 30k, where there's less of that shit and I can retaliate with Intercepting everything or Suicide Arvus of my own, although that lacks a lot of the Drop Pod's bonuses and reliability.

>>52914004
I went into the HH podcast/youtube scene thinking most of them would be fair enough people, surely they'd have to be to want to put their shit in public.
It's been an increasing disappointment that the majority - not all - are either kind of scummy or kind of stupid.
I think the only thing I've seen I've liked all of without any wankery has been the 30kchannel, they just seem like normal guys and the host isn't maximus decimus autismus or anything.

>>52914079
Hmm, I was planning to put the MoS with the Missile squad to take advantage of relentless BS10-->5 Missiles. The Tartersauce termi squad would be a standard Artillery/LOW assassin unit. What would you change to improve the list?

>>52914252
i've not seen that channel, it's on youtube? I will take a look

>>52914079
How about dropping the LOW slot and adding another pair of rhino mounted tac squads with a Void shield harness on the MoS?

Would want to add another pair of dreadclaws to get some delicious assault action in the enemy's DZ but how and for what unit?

Would death guard painted in light grey rather than off-white be acceptable? Still with the green pads and that, naturally.

>>52914966
Absolutely fine. Ceramite is described with numerous shades

>>52915015
Neat, thanks.

>>52913947
Word Bearers started it, they symbolized something from Colchis. It was early-heresy. I think the horns made an appearance when they started painting their armor red.

Other legions just sort of picked it up as a means to show how cool and not-loyal they were, sans the Colchisian symbolism.

>>52892013
Can someone give me an example of a Last of the Serrated Suns list? Can't figure out how to make it work, the tax to run the gal vorbak is pretty expensive.

+++Sons of Horus: TLM 3500 ROW revised+++

Praetor: Cataphractii Primus, digital weapons, chainfist

Bodyguard:10 Justaerin, 4 chainfists, 6 power fists, 10 combi

Centurion: MoS, AA, Void Shield Harness

Centurion: Chaplain, TH, AA


Contemptor Dread: Kheres Assault Cannon, Power fist, Extra Armour, Heavy Flamer, DDP

Contemptor Dread: Kheres Assault Cannon, Power fist, Extra Armour, Heavy Flamer, DDP

Tac squad: Rhino, extra CCW

Tac squad: Rhino, extra CCW

Tac squad: Rhino, extra CCW

Terminator Squad: Tarter-sauce armour, 3 Lightning Claw, 2 Chainfist, Reaper AC, Dreadclaw,

Lightning Strike Fighter: Battle Servitor, Ground Augeries, 2 pair Kraken missile, (4 total), TL autocannon

Heavy Support Squad: 10 man, ML, flak missiles
Spartan Assault Tank: AC, Aux Drive, Dozer Bl, Flare Shield

This one better?

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>>52915161
>>52913947
I think the colchisian meaning is a reference to sumero-akkadian culture where horns meant divinity or a really close relationship with them like the case of Naram Sin of Akkad who portrayed himself horned over the corpses of his enemies. It was not a common thing, this only appears on very rare cases outside of representations of gods

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>>52914966
Totally, Just make sure it looks suitably grimy and worn; maybe these guys have a thing for walking through still burning phospex and its scorched the paint off their armour?

>>52915335 Also image as seen here was supposed to be attached; fucking flubby fingers!

mechanicum chainfists - any examples? ideas for conversions?

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>>52915534
I'm actually interested in this myself. Marine chainfists are a bit off, with apologies to Magos Coatl. Myrmidon Destructors have a clamp arm powerfist, which would probably work with an inbuilt chainblade.
Personally I'm going to build my Chainfist into the mandibles of his spider-abeyant, but I'm worried that an Arachnarok would be too big - he may not fit in his Macrocarid.

>>52914252
The Outer Circle is hard to listen to.
The Forgotten Legion is too much a close group of friends talking to each other and not to an audience.
30kchannel is fine.

That covers Youtube. I think a lot of the podcasts are good - which ones didn't you like?

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>>52910003
Did Sanguinius ever actually interact with Curze?

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>>52914252
>>52915660
Eye of Horus for podcasts and if the banter is to strong then your soft cunt diagnosis is correct

>>52895833
I like it, but i cant tell for shit if its balanced. Go grab some friends and playtest it for like, 4 or 5 games. That should give you a good insight on the checks and balances of this

what anti mech options are the most fluffy for myrms cult?

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>>52915600
No offense taken bro, I am actually looking for a new chainfist myself for Coatl. Maybe the old chain arm off the sentinal kits? might have to troll some blogs and google image searches for inspiration

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>>52915534
Sentinel Chainsaws?

>>52892045
The changes for 8th are ok so far. But I am pissed that I bought my apo blast template for nothing.

>>52915874
Pretty sure they had an encounter during the Imperium Secundus arc.

>>52894817
nah, having more wounds does not mean they are harder to kill because weapos cause multiple wounds. I bet the Dread will melt just like he did before.

So if I were to run a Laeneran Termie Squad (Madman, I know) would it be better to keep the stock power axes for the extra attack or pony up 5 points each for powerfists?

>>52916375
It'll be an unspecified, probably as-of-yet-undetermined length of time before the changes make it over to 30k.

>>52916096
I enjoy the Eye of Horus podcast, but they've been a bit whiny about 8th ed rumors. They were Fantasy players who quit when the Old World got blown up, so I guess I can see where they're coming from. But some of their arguments make a lot of assumptions.

Ryan at Radio Free Isstvan has had a few rants too. At least he knows the rules well enough for his rants to be cogent.

Age of Darkness (my favorite) tends to shy away from a lot of that.

>>52916375
I too will quite miss the templates. They added a very physical element to the game that random hits just can't replicate.

Though while they could be infuriating in all the right ways (lash+vindicator) they could just as easily do it in all the wrong ways (multiple Wyverns).

I'm still wondering how they'll do barrage weapons without them, however.

>>52916456
>for the extra attack
nope, unless they got FAQ'd to have a pistol or other CCW

>>52916456
A mix, obviously. I'd only go full powerfists if it was a dedicated anti-automata unit.

>>52916421
Today they revealed that lascannons will do d6 damage (wounds) and only reduce armor saves by -3. If fired by a unit that hits on a 3+, and assuming no to-hit modifiers apply, you'll need 6 or 7 lascannon shots to kill a dreadnought with average rolls.