/osrg/ OSR General

>>52718924
>Is there a maximum level and why is it level 18?

I -wish- my games went anywhere even remotely far enough to anything that could apply as a maximum level.

What does /osrg/ about Matt Colville?

>>52718924
I run 5th and 6th level as a cap, kind of like an Epic6 game. Mostly for simplicity / flavor.
I halves XP requirements (need 1k to 2nd level, 2k to 3rd, etc).
All classes use the same XP table.
None of that matters during play.
No PC reached the cap yet.

The soft cap is 14, which gives slower leveling classes time to hit level 10 if you plan on retiring your party all together.
There is no hard cap, but that's more for the NPCs sake than it is for the players.

>>52718924
Well, all TSR D&D systems have level 9-10 as a soft cap where you stop gaining HD unless you get fucked over really hard by racial level limits earlier.

>>52718929
Well clearly he used dimension door to get the hell away from his party before doing the polymorph thing.

>>52718924
I prefer level 10, though I have been thinking of homebrewing 11-20 as immortal levels. I am not overly talented though.

>>52718653
Why would one need to polymorph to another species when you are already a different species from human as a dwarf?

>>52719402
>Why would one need to polymorph to another species when you are already a different species from human as a dwarf?
Oh shit, you're right. In that case, maybe he wanted to polymorph into a human so that he could commit suicide?

Are there any modules or adventures where the party is protecting some fixed position (town, fortress, mine, etc) against waves of enemies?

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>>52719548
The Siege of Kratys Freehold, Dungeon Magazine #33

It's not even that terrible: most Dungeon Magazine adventures are awful, especially in the later years, but this one's okay.

>>52719282
>Matt Colville
He's a good public speaker and his videos have decent advice, though his games are story-heavy which isn't usually /osrg/'s dig. I watch some of his things when the title catches my attention, but I don't follow him closely. I would follow his twitter but he's vaguely obnoxious about things that aren't D&D.

>>52719468
The scroll hits much broader categories when blessed.
Still doesn't make sense to go for h, they clearly want @.

>>52719598
Thanks I'll check it out

>>52718924
Personally it irks me when a hard level cap isn't some multiple of 10.

Hey, YDIS is back!

https://yourdungeonissuck.wordpress.com/2017/04/12/kabuki-kaiser-just-nuked-it-from-orbit/

>>52718924
Newish gm here. Do people get to the level cap? How long does that take/how many sessions/modules etc?

>>52720045
About half a year of gaming got my party to level six before the game died.

>>52720034
Literally who.

Best random tables for dungeon dressings?

>>52720351
There are so many out there to choose from. Raging Swan has about a billion of them on their website that are of good quality.

http://kaiserkabuki.blogspot.co.nz/2017/04/the-end-of-cycle-and-new-hope.html

ZAK AND RAGGI STATUS: B T F O

Can anyone give me the rundown on Fire on The Velvet Horizon?
To my understanding there will never be a pdf but I'm not sure so much money for a physical copy of a statless monster book is worth the price tag.

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>>52720470
Can anybody give me a quick rundown on all the drama in the OSR blogsphere? Like, I get that many people think that the more 'hipster' types like Zak and Raggi are assholes, but is that all there is to it?

>>52720561
Zak has been targetted for death by the SJW extremist sphere (the living strawmen ones) for something there is no proof of him saying or doing. He is also sorta an asshole so other people have used that to fuck with him. I don't know how Raggi fits in.

>>52720561
No, man. And if anyone does, they won't be doing you any favor.
Stay off this fake internet drama shit and post game content / about game content.

>>52720538
Spoiler: it's not. Don't pay money for stuff that's basically just someone's unedited campaign notes.

>>52720675
Still would save me the time of coming up with my own campaign notes, though?

>>52720561
The two main accusations are that Zak and Raggi are:

1. Hacks
2. Alt-right boogeymen

The truth is that they're just moderately self absorbed indie weenies who know that cultivating an edgy cult of personality around yourself is a great way to sell half-baked splatbooks to people with more money than sense.

>>52720561
Outside the OSR, there's serious evidence that Zak has told his fanboys to stalk and threaten people. David Hill of Onyx Path (World of Darkness licensee) quit the company because White Wolf hired him. Zak and Hill had previously had a twitter argument and then threats were sent to the school where Hill's kids attended. Also, despite being a flaming liberal pronographer, he's such an ass that rpgnet (liberal cesspool of the online rpg community) banned him. It takes a lot to get both liberal and conservative elements of the community to hate you at the same time. /wodg/ will delve into more details.

But the current OSR drama is this:
>Stuart is an artsy hipster OSR guy
>Stuart wants to map the OSR geographically and politically for unknown reasons
>Knights and Knaves Alehouse complains about this guy trying to drag IRL politics into elfgames
>turns into KnKA generally complaining about all these damn hipsters trying to make OSR into storygames 2.0
>Stuart gets assblasted and edits his post to mock KnKA
>Kabuki Kaiser is a well-regard OSR dude, supports KnKA and specifaclly denounces Zak

>>52720634
t. Zak

>>52720770
t. LOFTPdrone

>>52720634

Raggi is a metal hipster and kind of annoying but not really an asshole like Zak is.

>>52720770

Indie weenie hacks. That's a good way to summarize it.

>>52720798
>t. LOFTPdrone

Did I show my support for Raggi before or after I called him an edgelord and a half-baked posuer?

>>52720538
if you like patrick's other stuff then you should have a good idea of what to expect. I've gotten some cool stuff from it but I wouldnt recommend unless you've got a lot of money you don't need

>>52719326
What did he mean by that

>>52720798
Okay I was unaware that everyone hated him, in my post I had assumed it was just super libs.

But no I personally am not Zak. I've not liked any of his published work and only some of his blog and other content. I am just really cautious of witch hunts these days.

>>52720798
t. David Hill

Lotfp was a mistake

jokes aside, i just played a session using the acks rules for mass combat.
They work pretty well. Not too complicated not too simple.
I would say cavalry charges feel underpowered but otherwise its good.

If you guys ever need a mass combat system for your osr campaign i would reccomend picking it up.

>>52720034
Who the fuck is this and is he for real. Lmao

>>52721424
Do people generally prefer ACKS or An Echo, Resounding for domain management? I like lots of things about ACKs but it seems a bit too much of a spreadsheet simulator for my tastes.

>>52721301
Witch hunts and general clannishness is a big problem, but Zak really is that big of a douche that he pisses off people on both ends of the political spectrum.

Just before I reinvet the wheel - Is there a setting with a permanent eclipse (or something like that) out there?

>>52721590
Das Schwarze Auge? Or maybe the eclipse is metaphorical.

Also the Shadow Rift in Ravenloft.

>>52721554
Once you do the initial domain setup calculations (preferably outside a session) during actual play its actually pretty simple. No need for spreadsheets or anything like that.

The most complicated calculation youre gonna do is adding all the monthly wages for your army.

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>>52721590
>Stay off this fake internet drama shit and post game content / about game content.

Just repeating good advice.


>>52721590
I think False Machine has an Azathoth-based thing going on. It's pretty weird but might have ideas worth stealing.
http://falsemachine.blogspot.ca/2017/02/the-three-keeps-of-eclipsed-kingdom.html

>>52720798
>he's such an ass that rpgnet (liberal cesspool of the online rpg community) banned him
Bruh
Wat r u doin
It takes approximately nothing to get banned from Big Purp, it's a worse shithole than >>>/mlp/. Are you literally that Ettin guy shitposting?

>>52721301
>Okay I was unaware that everyone hated him
Not everyone hates him at all, it's just this one guy in /osrg/ who has a hateboner for him (and I think there are two or three who have hateboners for Raggi, but it might just be the same guy who works hard). Tb h his stuff is some of the most popular work discussed in here, this just looks like some witchhunter shill who's come here to rage about Zak in his infinite stalking quest.

>>52722034
I'm just going to enjoy everyone's work instead of worry about which creators have hate-boners for each other! =D

>>52721981
I concur with this post.

The Big Purple blows.

>>52720470
>http://kaiserkabuki.blogspot.co.nz/2017/04/the-end-of-cycle-and-new-hope.html

Oh my fucking God, the K&K thread that that blog post links to.

"Fuck the OSR"? What a bunch of insular, cunty, whiny, neckbeard dipshits. Bitching about the "OSR Taliban" when they're being snooty "Early Gygaxian" Nazis.

Thanks, mate, funniest shit I've seen all week.

May I draw your attention to @52721981
Note the distinctively un-4chan style of posting, and the capitalization of each word indicating that it is a phoneposter. Note the terms that are foreign to /tg/ vernacular (Big Purp) and the irrelevant mention of /mlp/. I wonder WHO could be behind this post.

>>52722034
>>52722117
>shills shitty hipster products
>accuses others of being shills
$0.01 has been deposited into your drivethrurpg account.

I need that blessed scroll of genocide asap...

>>52722034
>>52722117
just cause his work is popular doesn't mean he himself isn't disliked. You need learn to dissociate the person from his work.

>>52721914
Thanks, but I was thinking more about gameable content, not
>Very little can be found in the city without first knowing what you are looking for, the centres of ruined buildings may still hold secret life, unlikely alleys or locked gates may disguise secret homes [...]

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>>52722319
>Thanks, but I was thinking more about gameable content
Ah, well, in that case, False Machine is probably not for you...

But what sort of eclipe-specific content are you looking for?

Anyone have a copy of Microlit74 Ultimate?

>>52722170
Kek, I >>52721981 started some of the earliest /osrg/ threads. I've been here the whole time.

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>>52721590
>>52722319
Assuming this was a vanilla D&D setting where the sun suddenly went out
>sun gods drastically decrease in power
>sun cultists become a necessary but dangerous part of human society
>think of fundamentalists who want jumpstart the apocalypse so that the sun comes back
>creatures that previously were weakened under sunlight now walk the land, including undead and normally underground creatures
>nocturnal animals become more widespread while diurnal species either adapt or die off
>conflict between undead who want to kill everything (Wraiths) and those who harvest living creatures (Vampires)
>orcs, goblins, etc. spread across the land but have to fight newcomers such as derro, gibberlings, drow, etc.
>a lot of plantlife dies or is severely crippled
>humans and non-drow/non-sea elves on the brink of extinction

Note @52722606's continued attempts at damage control. He invokes seniority and supposed creativity to prop up his clout. Even more laughable is that he does this on an anonymous taiwanese basket-weaving forum.

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>>52722606

>I started some of the earliest /osrg/ threads

Aha! So the Illuminati have been behind it from the start! I knew it!

>>52722681
>@

Seems like you're the foreign one.

>>52719282
He is fun to listen to - story time and all of that. I appreciate his "how to GM/play" videos as I feel they are of much better quality than what DawnForgedCast or such would make (although I don't watch the how to videos).

Note that @52722734 doesn't know of the practice of using @ while quoting instead of >> to avoid giving (You)s to trolls and shills. Clearly he is an outsider and part of the Zak Internet Defense Force, ZIDF for short.

>>52722380
This is nice: >>52722625

I was thinking about making it a bit points-of-light kek with big but poor cities and desert rural areas. Kind of like a palette-sifted Zelda 1 and medieval mad max, but I sort of like the idea that humans can still kind of comfortably (love me some decadence).
Unsure about lycanthopes, since the moon is still moving - the sun is blocked by something-alien. It could could make them do something interesting, idk.

Oh and I didn't notice about the sun gods, thanks for that - I was planning to have a darksoulsy pantheon also tied to alignment. I'll give it some thought.

>>52722848
No one does this. Its cute you think (you)s are important in a metacurrency way though. Have one.

>>52723118
What's the exchange rate from (You)s to (you)s?
How many experience points are they worth?

How the hell do you use JG37 Blackmoor?
I'm a few pages in and it looks like a Age of Empires boardgame sans the actual rules. Am I missing something?

>>52723141
I switched to the silver (you) standard.

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Can I please have some more cool combat rules? Sharing one with you.

>>52723141
>>52723118
>>52723190
If you go to the right place you can trade 10 (you)s for an internet blowjob

>>52723241
Id don't like that rule because thieves are meant to do good damage since they can use many warrior weapons like the sword and bow, but aren't quite as effective due to thac0 and low hp

How the fuck do I get into contact with Trove Guy? i got shit to give him

Also I backed for the MCC *everything* edition, same with DCC Lankmar. I wanna give that nigga some PDFs....

>>52723302

He's been incommunicado for a while. Some discordfags said he shows up there from time to time, but he's not posted in the thread since forever. I don't know who's managing the Trove now, since stuff I posted months ago never went in.

>>52723334

Well, there's a discord for osrg?

>>52723389

Yeah, apparently so. Most generals develop that sort of cancer eventually.

Kek, I'm reading the blog post that spawned this whole K&K Alehouse spergfest now and it's like he just couldn't let go of grievances from ten years ago.
>the execrable Carcosa
I can't believe there are still grogs squawking about that. I bet he likes Tekumel, as well.

>>52723599
I should add though, a couple people in the K&K thread are really sane and sensible so far -- Philotomy and Rob Conley stick out as being entirely reasonable.

>tfw Philotomy-sempai didn't let you down

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>>52723599

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>>52722918
So are you thinking that the eclipse is:
1. New, as in this morning
2. New, as last week
3. New, as in within a few years
4. Within living memory
5. Ancient

And is it
1. Just a part of the setting
2. Something the PCs have to fix
3. Something everyone is working to fix
4. Going to kill everyoneone.

And is the general tone
1. Doomed (the Road)
2. Doomed but Hopeful (Mad Max)
3. Weird (Dark Sun)
4. Really Weird (Tank Girl)
5. Hopeful (Majora's Mask)

Because this will dictate the shape of your game, and the shape of the plot. You can then worldbuild to match, both thematically and practically.

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>>52721590
Simpsons did it.

>>52723753
Add a fifth option to
>And is it
so I can dice+3d5

>>52723770

Iron Maiden did it first.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7ycwVFYEb5k

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>>52723835
This might not be the kind of thing you want to randomly generate, but OK. 3d6.

So are you thinking that the eclipse is:
1. New, as in this morning
2. New, as last week
3. New, as in within a few years
4. Within living memory
5. Within a few centuries
6. Ancient

And is it
1. Just a part of the setting
2. Something the PCs have to fix
3. Something everyone is working to fix
4. Going to kill everyone very quickly.
5. Going to kill everyone within a few years.
6. Something the PCs have to maintain for some reason.

And is the general tone
1. Doomed (the Road)
2. Doomed but Hopeful (Mad Max)
3. Weird (Dark Sun)
4. Really Weird (Tank Girl)
5. Hopeful (Majora's Mask)
6. Completely standard D&D OSR Murderhobo tone

>>52723753
>So are you thinking that the eclipse is:
6. Fairly new. Or: old enough to have a small impact and foreshadow dark & grim stuff.

>And is it
Yes, yes, all of that - not a super heavy influence on mechanics or story, tho.
Obviously not *everybody* is working to fix it, and not *everybody* wil die because of it.

>general tone
It's generic D&D with a coat of paint and a couple of quirks.

Rolled 6, 1, 3 = 10 (3d6)

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>>52724087
Ancient, Just Part of the Setting, and Weird.

Well, I guess you're going back to False Machine then.

>>52723999
If you've got a new eclipse, you've got to deal with the questions people are asking about it: how do we fix it, what does it mean, and is it going to get worse?

>Yes, yes, all of that - not a super heavy influence on [...] story, tho.

Don't see how you're going to get away with that.

A total eclipse only normally occurs along a small portion of the earth's surface. The rest gets a partial eclipse.

During a total eclipse, less than 1% of the sun's light reaches the earth. This is very bad. You can't farm. Winds are fucked. Everything starts to freeze very rapidly. Light is important, and not just for seeing where you're going. It's going to have a major impact on the story no matter what.

>>52724315
>A total eclipse only normally occurs along a small portion of the earth's surface.
A continuous total eclipse that moves around but always effects *some part* of the world might be workable.

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>>52724375
Absolutely. You might need to handwave some orbital geometry to get it to work though.

And really, then effect is less "permanent eclipse" than "a fuck ton of eclipses happen here for some reason". Seems like you're just going to end up with the classic blood moon archetype by a different name.

>>52724315
>questions
players will trigger it
other than that, nobody knows

Yeah, the consequences of a -total- eclipse would be very anti-human, more than I'd like. I'll come up with something (or bullshit it).

>>52724375
>>52724406
I spent a lot of time researching this shit, then decided "it's a eclipse" -- it covers at least a continent and it's permanent (more or less). It's artificial/magical so fuck logic.

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>>52724482
In that case, since you're still approaching this from the vaguest possible angle, the worldbuilding general thread might be better for you than the OSR thread. There's not a lot for you here until you know what your plan is.

My fundamental disagreement with the OSR was the decision they made en-masse early on to reject AD&D (i.e. the real game) in favor of OD&D (i.e. the rough draft beta-test version) or, even worse, B/X D&D (the watered-down version for kids). I can sort of understand the former, since the original game (by virtue of its incompleteness) ostensibly allows for more DIY-style customization (though I differ with most OSR-types about how much of a virtue that really is), but the latter is, IMO, just pure wrong-headed laziness. That one decision feels to me like the root of pretty much everything that's gone wrong with that "movement" ever since.

I'd still be up for an AD&D revival, since with a very few exceptions (OSRIC, Joe Browning's Advanced Adventures) that's not what we got the first time around, but I'm not holding my breath.

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>>52724609

Cool

>>52724482
>it covers at least a continent and it's permanent (more or less).
Reminds me of a setting I saw on /tg/ at... some point.

Cube shape world, each face was roughly the size of Great Britain IIRC.
Travel between faces was rare, and almost no one returns to tell of it.
You could cross each edge of the cubes exactly once in your life.
The 1s face was a dark wasteland, without any life.

Each face also has it's corresponding number show up just about everywhere.
Also the faces might have had pips embossed into them?
At the very least, the 1 had an enormous pit to the center of the world.

>>52724658
More, I'm stealing this.

>>52723599

explain

>>52724954

Stupid nerd clique drama, wasting pixels and bytes.

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>>52719097

We need more treasure. Pic related.

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>>52725281
Are there more of these?

>>52724609

kek. copypasta of the day.

>B/X is too kiddie! Play my preferred elfgame instead!
>t. T. Foster

>>52725281
>>52725329

Amazing how faggots still use blue for maps in 2017.
Specially for screen.
Specially that kind of unreadable cyan.
Specially when they do it without knowing that the only purpose for it is making player handouts, since you can doodle with a black pen on a blue map then remove the blue as you photocopy it.

>>52725367

Thats #3FCAFF not #00FFFF faggot.

>>52725454
It still looks terrible faggot.

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>>52724609
>>52725367
I want people like you to leave these generals.

I love JG420 Unknown Gods. Anything else like this? (not petty gods, pls)

Also, is JG800 Glory Hole Dwarven Mine as awesome as the name promises?

>>52725524
What's wrong with petty gods?

>>52725524
What's wrong with Petty Gods?

>>52725556
>>52725557
Different guy but generally speaking it's kinda shit. Nothing really memorable aside from electrum dude, rock guy, and baroque king.

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>>52725556
>>52725557

>>52725581
So how's unknown gods better?

>>52725581
So how's Unknown Gods better?

>>52725666
>>52725667
Twins please stahp.

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>>52725666
>>52725667
On the one hand, I'm upset that you abandoned your digits in the name of editing.
On the other hand, I'm amazed no fa/tg/uys slipped a post in during either minute.

>>52725666
>>52725667
Who invited the demogorgon to this thread?

>>52725784
>>52725329

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How do you run OSR without feeling the guilt like you're an asshole GM when players die or fall into traps or keep running into wandering monsters ever other turn?

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>>52725524
It looks goofy/gonzo af. Dwavers all have rhyming names, stuff like that. My group's not as into that so I haven't looked into it too much. Seems like it has decent tables for mining operations if you want those.

>>52725836
Give each more than one character. It's how I manage.

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>>52725836
You make the dungeons interesting, the character creation fast, and the dying fun.

>>52725836
Think of it like your players are losing at Spelunky.
They don't know exactly what they're up against, but when they screw up they should know it's on them.

>>52725836
By talking about expectations before playing, and following the rules strictly.

Also, balance your encounters for party size. In BX all # apperaing is balanced for 6-10 characters including mooks.

>>52725867
ty!

>>52725889
Nah. Spelunky is 100% deterministic, D&D and specially old D&D is swingy AF.

>>52725055

explain...better

>>52725963
A waste of time. Screaming useless nobodies. Pay it no mind. If you do, keep it out of these generals.

>>52725281
>>52725329
I'm gonna be honest and admit I don't get the joke
they're terrible on purpose, that much I get
but they're not really funny

>>52726588
It's just an over-exaggeration of bad old-school dungeons as a joke.

>>52724609
I missed you, True AD&D® Guy.

>>52726588
It's not funny it's just stupid. For example it doesn't explain how the blink elf got the dungeon wi-fi password.

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>>52726981
>For example it doesn't explain how the blink elf got the dungeon wi-fi password.

Racial ability. I hate it when you fucks don't read the core books.

>B/X
>full party going for the final battle of the lair
>generate treasure worth 12,000 xp
>split so many ways it will be fine
>half the party dies
>dividing the treasure in the tavern levels two characters twice

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>>52727020
And this is a problem... how? The game is not nessesarily designed around perfect balance.

Also, how'd half the party die? That might reveal more about the "fairness" of this situation.

>>52727080
It's not "a problem", just unintentional. The rules themselves recommend no more than 1 level per session, much less 2 simultaneously. One of the characters was newly rolled and had only 1 hp (probably a hopeless character I should have rejected).

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>>52727111
> One of the characters was newly rolled and had only 1 hp (probably a hopeless character I should have rejecte

Seems like a self-correcting problem. Ah well.

And don't worry about it too much. A few extra levels here and there, especially at low levels and low HP, is going to be just fine in the long run.

The real question is, how did a half party still successfully clear a dungeon designed for a full party?

>>52727020
Did the players with dead doods not roll/make new doods? What did they do? Just watch the rest of the game?

>>52727155
The full party was alive, but injured, up until the final encounter.

>>52727192
After that encounter the party went back to town and and the deaders were rolling while the treasure and xp were being split.

>>52727111
>rolling for HP at 1st level

>>52726981
Is improve a dead art? The blink elf is the dungeon's sysop, or some shit

>>52727020

How did they carry 12,000 XP worth of treasure out with just two guys? That sounds like it'd be a lot of stuff.
Gygax used to not let people level more than once per session. If you got that much, you were capped at 1 XP away from your second level.

>>52727020
>levels two characters twice
You can';t level up more than once per session, xp stops at 30% of the next level.

>>52720798
>Outside the OSR, there's serious evidence that Zak has told his fanboys to stalk and threaten people

I can see how that would make 4channers uncomfortable. It reminds you how similar 4chan is to Reddit after all.

>>52727342
That's a lame rule though.

>>52727341
>>52727342
Yea perhaps I should have prevented it. When I told them the total xp I didn't realize they were close enough to the next level to get two out of it. I would feel bad about going back on it though. I'm sure it will work itself out eventually.

>>52727396

Honestly, it's not that big a deal, really.

>>52727396
Yeah, don't sweat it. Especially on low levels scores like that can be a lot of fun, the players won't complain either.

>>52722132
It's fine if you stick to the D&D board, all the mod drama happens in the general RPGs board

>>52727370
>Outside the OSR, there's serious evidence that Zak has told his fanboys to stalk and threaten people
who fucking cares? There's shit-flinging all over the place there, and also Zak makes good content. I'm only really interested in the second bit, not the first.

>>52727846
>LOTFP hipster garbage
>"good"

haha you're such a jokester anon

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What cause the collapse of the Ancient Empire in your setting?

>>52728028
I can't think of a single module of his I wod use unaltered, but they're very stealable.

>>52728061
Generations of mismanagement.

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>>52728075
Gotta remember the 5 "Whys" method.

What caused the mismanagement? Was it the reaction to the mismanagement, or the mismanagement itself? What did the last days look like?

>>52728061
Drugs. I'm trying to build a setting that looks like it's made by DARE.

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>>52728116
Excellent. Mix a bit of Satanic Panic into your Reefer Madness and I'm sure it will turn out splendidly.

What sort of drugs?

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>>52728061
One woman.

>>52719097
>I -wish- my games went anywhere even remotely far enough to
...do look more like?

Has anyone really been decided?

>>52728109
Everyone appoints horrible successors, mostly from lack of effort.
Each ruler stirs up a crisis for the incoming ruler before they leave. "Look how bad it is under Ruler B. Wasn't Ruler A great? Let us remember him fondly!"
Also every man, woman, and child knowingly has led poison. Prepare defrutum in *copper* pots?? Madness! That ruins the flavor.

>>52719283
An XP cap is better than a level cap, since it retains the balance between the classes. "Under a million" is a pretty decent place to stop, as it restricts folks to 6-digit numbers and lands the human classes in B/X in the range of 13th to 16th level.

Another good one is the number of the beast, extended edition. At 666,666 XP, a fighters are 12, thief and cleric are 13, and magic-users are 11 (and have one 6th level spell). By this scheme, elves are 10 and dwarves are 12, just as their level caps intend.

>>52728061
If it ever become a plot point I'll just steal the plot from How The Mighty Are Fallen
>wizard-king with no sense of right and wrong want to become a god
>makes a 12th level spell to do it
>accidentally kills himself and the goddess of magic, warps the very structure of magic, and ruins his civilization

>>52728309
>copper pots
...Anon...

Copper poisoning is even worse than lead poisoning, that's why they always put tin on the inside of copper pots and why hipsters go blind when they buy old scratched-up antique ones and just use them without having them redone

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>>52728116

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>>52728061
Slowboat colony ship full of humans smashed into their planet.

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>>52728144
To be fair, she didn't inherit a fully functioning system of government.

>>52728376
That's one way to do it. How do people currently get magic then?

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>>52728474
Bet the eleves were really pleased about that.

>>52728503
it fucked up their free wifi for sure

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>>52728571
That'd be enough to piss off anyone.

Plus, humans smell like butts.

>>52718924
>Is there a maximum level and why is it level 18?

Why isn't it Level 36 as the gods intended?

>>52728487
>How do people currently get magic then?
Goddess of Magic reincarnated.
It's Karsus's Folly, from FR.

>>52728487
The goddess of magic reincarnated and "fixed" the structure of magic.

>>52720538
ScarpPrincess & Co's stuff is mostly likely hiring a boutique noveau artiste to vomit all over a canvas for you, lacquer it and hang it on the wall of your Beverly Hills mansion for $60,000. Expensive vanity and The Emperor Has No Clothes for everyone participating.

Or perhaps it's Bill Sienkiewicz all over again, I don't know. It's fucking modern art, so it's both brilliant and mostly crap.

>>52723279
Presumably you should also rewrite backstab if that's your preference.

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>exploring strange new lands and meeting bizarre creatures with a ragtag team of vagabonds and ne'r-do-wells
>an all consuming lust for maps and treasure
>short lives filled with excitement and adventure, with the chance to maybe carve a name for yourself and gather a fledgling nation under your flag

The parallels are obvious. So why haven't we had a pirate OSR game? Yes I know IRL pirates were miserable, desperate criminals. We're talking about Fantasy! pirates.

>>52728750
Ships and islands do make for good dungeons...
So do the PCs start as ex-press gangsters, or what exactly?

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>>52728703
>>52728638
>reincarnated

I've never really understood that bit. From a setting/worldbuilding point of view, sure. But from a theological PoV?

You don't die and re-incarnate. Your incarnation might die, but it's like water pouring from one jug to another.

Plus, isn't the point of killing gods ensuring that they stay dead?

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>>52728716
Best not be badmouthing based Bill Sienkiewicz.

>>52728787
It just werks.
Although canonically they're not really the same person. Compare
>Mystrl, TN goddess of magic and time who focuses on time
to
>Mystra, CG goddess of magic and time who focuses on magic

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>>52728784
As penniless scoundrels and black sheep and really bad eggs.

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>>52728750
>>52728784
>>52728853

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>>52728845
Ah, of course. Gork is the god of brutal cunning, but Mork is the god of cunning brutality.

>>52728750
Yar har, fiddle dee dee, etc.

And I'm reasonably sure every game with sailing rules has a certain degree of piracy built into it.

>>52728793
Is that The motherfucking Shadow?! Because he knows what darkness lies in the hearts of men, you know.

>>52728787
The Lich Ioulaum fucked off with all his alhoons to form an enclave and become and Elder Brain.
Because that's apparently something 41st level human Magic-Users can just handwave during downtime.

The tube-sock sorcerers were blighting the land somethin' fierce.
Without Ioulaum to take the load off, Karsus was put on the spot.

>Plus, isn't the point of killing gods ensuring that they stay dead?
Karsus wasn't trying to kill Mystryl, or even to usurp her divinity.
The spell /merges/ the caster with the god of their choice, for it's duration.
Duration. Not even a permanent spell.

He wasn't trying to stay a god, he was strong enough to ascend the normal way.
Being a god is a hassle in the Forgotten Realms. He knew better than to bother.

Karsus just wanted a god on his side for the tensie wensie speck of time it took to Kill All Tube-Socks.

>>52728958
The weed of crime bears bitter fruit, anon. Crime does NOT pay. The Shadow knows...

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>>52728958
>Because he knows what darkness lies in the hearts of men, you know.

And not because of any supernatural ability. Because he was a shrewd detective with a network of friends and informants, and because he was a student of human nature. Skepticism is a pretty useful ability.

>>52729031
The twin .45 Automatics probably helped too

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>>52729052
The certainly helped get rid of any evil hearts, but bullets are very poor detectives.

>>52729031
Two other anons that not only know OF The Shadow but, know The Shadow beyond the 90s film.

Today I am happy.

>>52728061
The Machine, a device that allowed the first human civilization to tap ridiculous shitloads of magic, broke down catastrophically. A society designed around infinite energy couldn't hold up it's own weight in an age of limits.

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>>52729101
They made a film?

Oh. Ok, I guess they did. Was it better or worse than the Dick Tracy film?

>>52729155
Alec Baldwin is pretty decent in it. Soundtrack and set design are nice. Orson Welles is still the best Shadow.

>>52729101
The Shadow is the best parts of Batman and The Punisher combined. I'd give my left nut for a good Shadow film adaptation.

>>52728750
Thomas Denmark released Freebooters recently.

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>>52729151
What ludicrous schemes did they cook up at the end of try and stave off disaster?

Out of curiosity (I'm not too familiar with OSR), what in your opinion is the most simple/streamlined a system can be and still be OSR?

I recently stumbled across Maze Rats, which is super simple, but seems to try and emulate the feel of Old School games.

>>52729321
Unfortunately I did the humans lasts (meaning I haven't finished them yet) I've mostly focused on how the other races (elves and orcs) reacted to the fall of the Age of the Machine.

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>>52729382
Personally, provided it fits the bill of: >>52725871
, use whatever you'd like. I like Arnold K's GLOG system, which fits on about 4 pages, plus 0.5 pages per class and as many pages of spells and other stuff as you feel like including.

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>>52729394
There are probably scars and old wounds that will take centuries to heal. Golems of human kingdoms, once powered by the Machine, converted to use mashed fairies or elf blood. Rituals of the great human kingdoms that condemned thousands to starvation and madness.

>>52729382
Lightest I've seen is Searches of the Unknown.
Which, honestly, strips a bit too much.

>what in your opinion is the most simple/streamlined a system can be and still be OSR?
Perils have a to-hit chance. Monsters have stats. The dungeon has treasure.
There are movements rules. The referee arbitrates other activities.

You can't keep it that filed down (you'll inevitably add rules in play), but that's the bare minimum.

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>>52729382
>>52729518

http://monstersandmanuals.blogspot.ca/2017/04/the-core-commonalities-of-d.html

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>>52729566
Dude barked up the wrong trees, or at least a different tree than the one >>52729382 and I are discussing.

You don't need separate to-hit and on-hit, it's just common practice.
You don't need levels, or even statistical progression either.
You don't even need attributes, and LBB only ostensibly had six.

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>>52729643
Completely fair: I just figured it might be interesting to add to the discussion.

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>>52729643
I could make a case for cutting AC
noisms, apparently, cannot

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>>52729781
Glad you could join us, MS-paint-guy.

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>>52729793
he's not me ya dingus

>>52728853

So standard OSR then?

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>>52729812
There are 2 people out there who think MSpaint is the editing software of choice, for all their OSR needs?

Well fuck me sideways.

>>52729887
There is a certain charm to low quality content.

>>52729155

It's gorgeous to look at, but they got so much wrong. They should have talked to Harlan Ellison. He's a pain in the ass but the man really knows the Shadow.

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>>52729913
It's why I hang out on /tg/.

Way hey!

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>>52729887
>>52729887

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>>52729930

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So does anyone have any tips for running a Ravenloft game?

>>52730298
You mean besides what's printed in the books? What kind of advice are you specifically looking for?

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>>52730298
Discuss and establish tone with your players before character generation.

Bleak and hopeless? The power of Light over Dark? Camp horror? Fear? Madness? Blood? Or bluuuuud?

Once you've got your tone set, the rest of the game falls into place easily enough.

>>52730353
>no mention of grimdark gonzo

You never cease to disappoint me, Skerpeles.

>>52730337
Things like maybe how to describe things, movies/books/etc to look into to give me some ideas on how to run it. How should I play up the Vistani? The peoples of Barovia? Any monsters I should add/remove/modify?

I already have some gothic music at the ready for the game but I want to really get my players into the mood. It's a 2e game that is, thankfully, all human. There are two Fighters (one has the Noble Warrior Kit, other is vanilla), a Wizard (Alteration specialist), a Priest of a god of love (name slips me right now, it's FR though) and a Thief (Acrobat kit).

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>>52730386
I'd classify that under camp horror? If you're going to team up with the Mummy, Frankenstein's Monster, and some Deep Ones to fight Dracula using rotary six-barreled stake cannons, it's still camp horror.

But splitting hairs has never been my thing.

>>52728061
ruler was tempted by dark power and was defeated in a civil war which was too late to stop everything from going to shit

>>52730427
What is the Psycho Panic Castlevania option?

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>>52730298
That setting is so dope. The modules are really uneven though. The Van Richten guides are mostly excellent, start with those and the bsse box set. Also for fun, the novels hold up really well, too. It's great to use them for little unsettling details. Ravenloft can be fun and creepy. The undead kender only moan and scream there. Usually.

Pic related is a pretty good read, anon.

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>>52730407
>like maybe how to describe things
Make it more visceral. The vampire isn't just "pale" she's "pale as a corpse." Likewise, an "ogre" becomes a "brutish giant mockery of a man". Just try not to veer into too purple prose-y material.

>How should I play up the Vistani?
I really don't like the Vistani. One, because they are a racist caricature (although they're not as bad as the Aperusa hoo boy). Two, they're not a trope that really fits with the setting. The setting is trying to pretend to be gothic (i.e. literature) and then you've got Hammer horror (i.e. schlock movie) Gypsies everywhere.
>Ancient Egypt? Gypsies!
>Arabia? Gypsies!
>India? Gypsies!
>Louisiana? Gypsies!
>Japan? Gypsies!
>Middle of the fucking ocean? Gypsies!
They work best when they're a distinctly Barovian fixture and population.

>The peoples of Barovia?
Like attitudes? Hate Vistani, hate foreigners, hate Strahd, hate boyars. And especially hate Tergs.

>Any monsters I should add/remove/modify?
The MC Appendices (MC10 and Creatures of Darkness) list some suitable monsters. Generally speaking it depends on the domain. Lamordia would have a lot of constructs and flesh golems, Vorostokov has werewolves and cold monsters, etc. Also, Nosferatu Vampires are a great alternative for people who dislike level-draining vamps.

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>>52730531
>that really DOESN'T fit with the setting.

I'm a baka

>>52730531
I'm focusing on Barovia proper. I don't know too much of the other Realms of Dread to feel comfortable to run a game there. I'm going to run I6 soon and thus the reason I am asking here.

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>>52730407

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>>52730442
>What is the Psycho Panic Castlevania option?

I don't know, but it's probably not going to use an OSR system.

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And fuck it, I'm going to elaborate on the Vistani/Gypsy over-use thing. It's the old "goblin overexposure" syndrome. If you're murdering goblins since level 1 then at level 10 you really stop remembering that you're fighting goblins. There's 0 mystique or novelty and they're either interchangeable with humans at best or just abstract piles of stats at worst. This is the same problem with the Dragonlance setting. Dragons are cool and awesome but when you've been dealing with dragons for months of real time you get bored and want to deal with ogres or pirates or demons. Vistani are to Ravenloft what Dragons are to Dragonlance.

>>52730560
You should look at House of Strahd as well, it's a 2e remake/update of I6.
Alright, more on Barovia:
>it's cold and pretty miserable
>common folk don't know that Strahd is a vampire although they do know that he's a wizard/necromancer
>there's some confusion over whether the common folk know that Strahd is centuries old or if they think that he's Strahd the Nth who looks suspiciously like his dad, who looked suspiciously like his dad, who -
>Barovians hate Vistani. In I6 they're totally right, in HoS they're just prejudiced
>Vistani in I6 are just straight evil mooks. In HoS they're CN and are more of unwilling minions.
>Ravens are symbols of goodness
>Wizards suck
>Undead are extremely common
>Nighttime is Deathtime
>Strahd's direct subordinates are lesser vampires
>Barovians know that any girl Strahd takes a liking to eventually dies.
>there are vague histories of ancient invasions by the Tergs which repelled by Strahd('s ancestor)

I think that's all the high points.

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>>52729887
>sideways
Upside down or not at all. Bring rope.

>>52677947

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>>52730680
>Bring rope.

Done. I'm going to floss you like you're a bead on a string.

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>>52730569

>>52730588
I don't see why not. It's dungeon Castlevania.

>>52730546
>they're not a trope that really fits with the setting.
>they're not a trope that really DOESN'T fit with the setting.
No, you had it right the first time.

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>>52730787
Yeah, it's probably a bad idea to post while I'm sleepy.

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>>52730784
Different tropes and a different style of game. You'd need something a little pulpier and quicker to adapt to ludicrous rule-bending nonsense.

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>>52730841

Time for go to bed?

>>52730852
Not necessarily. You already have the beastiary and major encounters in the forms of bosses, and a megadungeon map complete with rooms. Just spread out the encounters.

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>>52730891
"Psycho Panic Castlevania" does not bring to mind "dying in a ditch for gold". Straight Castlevania, sure, that's OSR-able. I don't know if it would be interesting or worthwhile, but it is possible.

>>52730910
>dying in a ditch for gold

OSR isn't constrained to that either. That's boring as fuck.

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>>52730929
Ok, then let me rephrase. What part of "Psycho Panic Castlevania" fits on this flowchart? >>52725871

And would an OSR system do a better job than, say, an Apocalypse World hack, or Fate?

>>52730956
>Ok, then let me rephrase. What part of "Psycho Panic Castlevania" fits on this flowchart?

It's largely an aesthetic. Dracula's Castle in Castlevania is a regenerating super dungeon that appears out of fucking no where periodically. It's aesthetic is expressed in it's encounters.

So, the flow chart works in that nothing of it effects it.

>>>52730956 biscuit hammer
Surprisingly good taste, Skerples.

Hey Euro OSR people, where do you find players and groups? I just moved to Germany from the US and my two old methods (Obsidian Portal and Pen and Paper Games) don't seem to have much of an audience here, and I haven't seen a gaming den yet, despite living in a big city.

>>52731279
/tg/ gamefinders, mostly. I once spent a month with a bunch of Reddit new-schoolers and managed to convert a few. Some of my players know more guys and can call them on demand.

Mostly the secret is that after you've been on this for many years, you know enough guys as it is to always have enough players. It's much rarer these days that I'd need to find more.

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How do you balance high-level wizards?

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>>52731531
>How do you balance high-level wizards?
They're pretty powerful, but they're still squishy and high-level monsters saving most of the time does reduce the power of their spells. Still, slowing their spell progression so they don't gain multiple spell slots when they level might be a step in the right direction. They're already gaining high level spell slots; do they really need to gain 2 or 3 slots at a time?

>>52731531
I'd personally flatten the power progression by a ton, so they're a fair bit more useful at low levels(instead of the "one and done" way it goes for them currently), but they don't go up in power as much as they level as they normally do

>>52731531
They already are, if you play B/X RAW. They literally have a bunch of spells and can't capture new ones. Actually I allow them to use one type of armor (or none; I roll it at chargen) and capture spells and they still suck a bit.

>>52731610
Is this table tested? I was planning to use something like this, 'flattened' like >>52731746
>>52731746 says:

2
3
3 2
3 3
3 3 2
3 3 3
etc.
* spells of 5th+ level only once/day

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>>52732118
>Is this table tested?
Nope.

Here's another one that powers up low level magic-users a bit. You can just ignore the 0-level spells if you don't want to use them. Cantrips are pretty dinky anyway, and mainly just give magic-users something interesting to do.

>>52732170
This looks ripped from 5e and tweaked just like the one I posted.
>Cantrips are pretty dinky anyway, and mainly just give magic-users something interesting to do.
Wrong, imo.
When a MU can blast a spell at will, each round - why do anything else?
If all your cantrips are trivial or non-combat - why even have them?
If my wizard asks if he can make some minor magicks to light a candle to read at night, or mend a hole in the backpack while at the inn, or something else - the answer is yes, no need to have a spell list for that.

>>52732264
>If my wizard asks if he can make some minor magicks to light a candle to read at night, or mend a hole in the backpack while at the inn, or something else - the answer is yes, no need to have a spell list for that.

What if he's a specialist wizard with such effects as his opposing schools?

What manner of cantrips would an enchanter have?

>>52732264
>This looks ripped from 5e and tweaked
I have no idea what the spell progression in 5e looks like.

>When a MU can blast a spell at will
Which nobody is. Look at the table.

>If all your cantrips are trivial or non-combat - why even have them?
It's more shit for magic-users to do. Besides, I like cantrips that are a bit better than trivial, while still well below the power of 1st level spells.

>>52732312
Never played with wizardry schools and such, but if it makes sense for that character, and it's something minor and there's no stress (or resting time) involved - he does it.
The same way you don't ask for a roll when climbing a rope under similar circumstances. Adventurers do their thing, just let them.

>>52732316
Oh sorry I thought the table was for cantrips *known*. When I read 'cantrip' I understand 'minor spell at will', but yeah, makes sense to have 0th level spells.

But still, I'd rather let wizards cast as one level higher than having to come up with a spell list and progression, and balance the whole mess...
Of course, if you have a playtested system for this, I'd be interested in taking a look.

where I can read about ravenloft related stuff?

My first D&D game was in Barovia, And I like the setting.
What to read? Novels? Some monster compendiums? I'm in search of similar settings.

>>52732618
Watch some Hammer films.

Anyone tried Holes combat sequence? Sounds super fun and fast:

-surprise as usual
-creatures go by dex score, high to low (monster dex = 3d6).
-Ties roll initiative (heavy weapons always lose)
-in its turn, each creature can, in this order: move, shoot, cast, melee

Usual restrictions on retreat, fleeing and casting on movement.

Sounds like it would encourage the players to ambush and try different tactics, a lot more than relying on a 50% chance of winning initiative every round.

And it doesn't get much simpler than this? Plus you can always give Dex 5 to zombie-types, 15 to feline-types and 10 to the rest.

>>52731531
By playing AD&D and especially using spell rarity (which isn't just about "this spell is rare" but rather "This spell is a find on par with a temp item/perm item/artifact").

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>>52726981
> doesn't explain how the blink elf got the dungeon wi-fi password.
fixed

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>>52732446
>But still, I'd rather let wizards cast as one level higher than having to come up with a spell list and progression, and balance the whole mess...
That might help boost low-level magic-users, but it's going to exacerbate the issue of high-level magic-users being overly powerful.

>Of course, if you have a playtested system for this, I'd be interested in taking a look.
The numbers are pretty straightforward, really. If you look at >>52732170 and discount level 0 spells, you start off exactly one level ahead of the RAW as far as spell progression is concerned. At level 9, you're exactly one level behind the RAW. They cross over between level 6 (where the alt progression is a smidge ahead) and level 7 (where the RAW is half a level ahead). A level 13 magic-user using the alt progression has the exact same spells as a RAW level 10 magic-user.

>>52733196
>A level 13 magic-user using the alt progression has the exact same spells as a RAW level 10 magic-user.
Though if you factor in hit points, saving throws and chance to hit, the alt level 13 magic-user is probably closer to a RAW level 11 magic-user in terms of overall strength.

>>52733196
>system
The spell list is 99% of what makes a magic system balanced - post that. # of cantrips per day is just a number, easy to fix at any moment.

>exacerbate the issue of high-level magic-users being overly powerful
Again, not in BX.

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One of my players rolled up a fighter armed with a shovel. He reckons it's flavorful and unique and all around a fun weapon, and I agree, but according to the only stats I've found for shovels anywhere (Player's Option: Combat & Tactics) it's not stat-wise very good.

How do we improve shovel? Where would magical shovels be found? Or how would a shovel be enchanted in the first place?

(A shovel of digging doesn't really count for this: it's far too valuable as a utility item to be just given away willy-nilly, and probably wouldn't help too much in a fight anyhow.)

>>52730956
>biscuit hammer
Seconding the good taste quote.I like you

>>52733616
Nah it's a normal shovel but he's good with it and does d6 damage (or the equivalent to a light sword).
Other option is doing d4 damage (or as improv. weapon), but boosting AC by 1 when two-handed.
Or even better, combine both somehow. Blam, shovel knight class.

>>52733707
Fight offensively and deal 1d6 damage. Fight defensively and deal only 1d4 but gain +1 to AC.

I feel like there's no reason this should be unique to shovels, though. Couldn't it - reducing damage for an AC bonus, or increase it for a penalty - extend just as well for just about any weapon out there?

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>>52733481
>Again, not in BX.
Magic-User power increases faster than any non-spell-casting class. Going from level 10 to 14, a fighter increases his hit points by about 25%, and improves his chance to-hit by 2 points, and his saving throws by 2.2 points on average. Going from level 10 to level 14, magic-users see somewhat similar gains (though obviously this isn't nearly as important for them, as their value isn't as bruisers), but they gain 83% in terms of spell power, if you calculate spell power by tallying up the levels of the spell slots they have (one 3rd level spell slot = 3 points). If a level 10 magic-user is reasonable balanced compared to, say, a fighter, then a 14th level magic-user is significantly more powerful. And having magic-users cast as 1 level higher would certainly boost this power.

Vertical axis of pic is tallied spell levels; horizontal axis is magic-user level.

>>52733769
No, this is Shovel Knight.
Or does your sword let you bash, cut and also DIG? (and, in a pinch, pierce?)
Can you step on your sword and drop onto an enemy, adding your weight (including the platemail) to the blade?
Can you jump onto your sword, and skate down the stairs? While you hold onto its handle, too?
Can you use your sword as a climbing pick?
Can you fry eggs on your sword?
Well, can you?

>>52729885
Exactly.

3d6 in order, swap one for another, and:

Score Modifier
3 −4
4–5 −3
6–7 −2
8–9 −1
10–11 +0
12–13 +1
14–15 +2
16–17 +3
18 +4

Ready to make ability checks? Will it break B/X?

>>52734094
It still leaves one question unanswered, the same I've been thinking of in all B/X: what're the modifiers beyond 18?

>>52734185
Well using this progression is easy to figure out: +1 at each even score*.
But why in hell would you need those in B/X? I mean, they are *absolute* measurements for human-like lifeforms - and monsters don't need ability adjustments, they simply add their HD to d20 rolls.

*Or not, forgot to check - this is c/pasted directly from 3.5+ ability tables, if you want the exact numbers.

>>52734245
Magic items that grant the strength of a giant? They're a fantasy staple, why would they stop being a thing in B/X?

>>52734295
What does your ruleset say about that? Mine says ogre power = 18 Str. Like I said, 3 and 18 are hard limits.

And why would you need a Str modifier for that? If you want to 'attack like a giant' it's just that - you add your level (HD) to d20 rolls, instead of your normal to-hit bonus. Or use a fixed bonus equal to whatever HD your giants have.

>>52734438
But ogres are bigger and bulkier, and therefore obviously stronger than even the strongest man - and giants are even stronger than that. They'd need the strength score to match, wouldn't they?

>get my friend to run hommlet / temple of elemental evil for us
>get really excited, everyone else in group is kinda meh cause they like Pathfinder
>spend a few sessions in the village getting gypped, everyone else is getting pissed, it's great
>abuse the halfling in our group for no reason
>finally go to the ruined keep with giant frogs and bandits
>frogs are a running joke in our group because the only time we had a near-TPK was because of fucking giant frogs
>fight and kill the frogs
>one player is getting pissed over the system
>get into the keep and scout around, get attacked by nine bandits
>halfling rogue gets shot by crossbow in first round, dies
>fight begins
>i have 18 Dexterity and scalemail/shield so I have AC of 1 (not sure I did this right)
>basically untouchable
>but I keep missing
>our half-orc fighter gets taken out, he goes upstairs to play vidya
>we finally start killing these fucks
>I have vowed to slaughter every one of the archers who killed my halfling friend
>keep missing but finally land some hits and kill a few guys
>somehow I don't get hit despite only having 3 hp left
>party druid who had animal-friended a spider gets killed by a club to the head
>giant spider keeps fighting on our side for a bit before scuttling away
>half-orcs horse also tries to help but is killed by arrows
>player who is getting really angry at the game, and I, end up being the only two survivors
>two of the bandits run away
>we decide to skulk around to see if there is any healing, before we hunt them down

Man that was one of the best RPG combats I've ever been in. It's so much more intense when you die at 0 hp and don't have anything to start with.

Just wanted to share, was my second time playing AD&D ever, and the last time I played I was 11 and didn't understand fantasy and named my character Foxmaster1000 because I thought it was a video game.

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>>52734185

Here ya go.

>>52734578
How'd the opinions of the Pathfinder guys changed by the end? Did it sway any of them towards more OSR gaming?

>>52732618
>>52732618
>where I can read about ravenloft related stuff?
Fraternity of Shadows, Mistipedia and http://wayback.archive-it.org/1213/20090602060955/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads#

>What to read?
Van Richten's Guides and the Children of The Night splats

>Novels?
Tales of Ravenloft

>Some monster compendiums?
Ravenloft Appendix and Creatures of Drakness

>>52732988
>not working in a router-eating rock
Lift your game.

>>52734689
>forgetting the Gazetteer

Who cares if they're 3.x, they're good.

https://imgur.com/a/oevwc

I wish all players were this passionate about mapping.

I always thought saving throws in TSR D&D (and OSR games) were divided up kind of weirdly. I think I'd divide them up more like this:
>Save vs. Death Magic or Negative Energy
>Save vs. Other Magic (RWS and spells)
>Save vs. Paralysis, Poison, and Disease
>Save vs. Petrification or Polymorph
>Save vs. Breath Weapon

Are there any glaring problems with this setup?

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Can I find the maps to the Icewind Dale games anywhere? Without all the map markers and other shit covering them, I mean.

They're the closest thing I've found to zoomed-in overworld maps on the region, and they look fucking sweet at that.

>>52734945
For Basic:
vs Instadeath
vs second hand sorcery
vs body control
vs area effect
vs spells

I think you're mixing categories here (I'm familiar with BX mostly, idk) - that could be a bit of a mess once you start giving different values to different classes and trying to keep it balanced.
When in doubt: unified saving throw.

>>52735145
I'm fine with instadeath in games, but I've never liked poison-as-instadeath. Ideally there should be a wide range of possible effects for poisons, with instadeath being only one of them.

My reasoning behind that list was:
vs. life-affecting dark magic
vs. magic in general
vs. physiological effects
vs. transmutative effects
vs. area of effect

That way you could say something like, "undead always succeed on their life-affecting dark magic saving throws and their physiological effect saves."

>>52734945
Save vs voodoo
Save vs physical
Save vs elemental

>>52731531
By RAW:
• ANY damage fails a cast
• spells give initiative penalties
• extremely limited spells known limit
• spells known are random
• most spells are garbage, level be damned
• save difficulty is flat (doesn't scale)
• squishy as all get-out

>>52735206
The idea is that you save poison or don't, but never halve it.
You can call it "all-or-nothing effect"
Or even better "default save"

>vs. magic in general
>vs. physiological effects
>vs. transmutative effects
So a medusa gaze is...? Def. magical, def. affects your body and def. changes it like only alchemy would.
Anyway, I'm just nitpicking, it's not a bad system if you manage to keep the numbers in place.

>>52735234
I wanted to have something like this, since I run a dungeon-focused campaign:
vs magic
vs poison
vs trap

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>>52732264
>Cantrips are pretty dinky anyway,
>Wrong, imo.

>>52735364
Something that bugged me about this list is that Gygax seems to take it for granted how any wizard worth their salt would discard cantrips as soon as they gain first level spells.

But why the hell would they? He himself acknowledges that cantrips are useful, and the wizard isn't going to clean his house with a Magic Missile.

>>52734578
>he goes upstairs to play vidya
He should have rolled up a new dude.

>>52734822
That's not passion, it's boredom.

>>52728793
I love that Bob Lappan lettering.

>>52735399
Once they can cast real spells they get their own damn apprentice to clean shit.

>>52729101
There are many of us. I even know what a Girosol is and why he has one.

>>52734185
There are no scores beyond 18 and thus no modifiers. 18 represents the natty limit. Gauntlets of Ogre Power and similar should grant explicit and unique powers, as in OD&D: extra damage dice, higher encumbrance limits, the Girdle of Giant Strength ability to throw stones as a mangonel.

There are good reasons to do it this way. It makes superhuman ability stand out, and it prevents stat inflation -- the only method I know of that does.

So I have been DMing for a few weeks now and have been having a great time. But so far all I bring to a session is some dice, paper, and the dungeon. I am sure some of this will give you a boner and will say DON'T ADD ANYMORE IT IS PERFECT.

But for real. I am looking for your favorite and most USEFUL GM resources. I am not talking massive books (GM guides). I am talking tables, short little reference stuff, that kind of crap. Sort of along the lines of what is in the GM Resource in the trove.

Anything you got I will take and look it over. It will be very much appreciated.

>>52734945
>Are there any glaring problems with this setup?
Yes, that you've completely missed the point of the standard division being the way it is. Make sure you understand it FIRST, THEN make changes. Don't just shuffle them around because "it looks more logical", that's how you get ants.

>>52735979
What's the point of the standard division?

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>>52735979
t. G. K. Chesterton

>>52735979
Nigga why do you think I'm asking /osrg/.

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>>52735868
I have your setup, and it *works*.
The more shit you bring to the table, the more you spend looking at it, instead of running the game.

Get a cheatsheet with your fave shortcuts (if you don't have them yet, soon you will).
Keep a *organized* list of all the rulings you make, so you can glance over it before making a new one. Keep them consistent and always ask your players if it's fair before noting them down.

Also bring MORE, smaller dungeons, even if they are a donjon procgen; I use those as a break. "You notice something before reaching the dungeon, it looks like a small orc camp near the river, 2 miles away. Wanna sniff around before we continue?"

Other than that, I find DM-stuff more useful when it's design / prep time.
Take a look at previous threads, some generous anon uploaded a HELLA LOT of AD&D monsters in a very decent format.

You already know about Ready Ref Sheets already, yes? On the Judges Guild section.

>>52736031
If there's a unified "save or die," it's much easier to consider the consequences of putting a save or die effect somewhere in your dungeon.
Also makes it much easier to think about balance when you try tweaking a save or die effect. Some for the other four saves, ofc.

Two changes you /could/ safely make are:
• replace all "Save v. Item"s with "Save v. Spell w/ a -2 bonus"
• fold "System Shock" into "Save v. Stone" (or vice-a-versa)

>>52736168
>some generous anon uploaded a HELLA LOT of AD&D monsters in a very decent format.
I've read all of the last few threads, and I seem to have missed that. Post a link?

>>52736168
I actually have not heard of the Judges Guild stuff. So I will look into it.

Also, I will even take stuff that helps with prep if there is anything incredibly useful. Thanks a lot for the advice. Less is more sometimes too!

>>52736031
They're arranged by effect, not cause. So the save vs. Poison and Death Ray isn't there because poisons are naturalistically similar to make-believe beams of murder but because they both mean you die if you flub the roll, so the save should be relatively easy. Paralytic venom would cause a save vs. Paralysis which is grouped with Petrification and other effects that get you BTFO of a fight and leaves you at the enemey's mercy; and so on.

>>52736284
>I actually have not heard of the Judges Guild stuff. So I will look into it.
Oh sheeeeeit, son. Don't miss the City-State of the Invincible Overlord.

>Also, I will even take stuff that helps with prep if there is anything incredibly useful.
A lot of the JG books do this: the Castles, Villages and Treasure Maps collections notably find their use in either prep or very quickly pulling a complete apparatus out of your ass when you need it. They tend to get overlooked for the modules and the Wilderlands setting stuff, but IMO they're some of the most useful product.

>>52736232
>If there's a unified "save or die," it's much easier to consider the consequences of putting a save or die effect somewhere in your dungeon.

But paralyzation has the same effect, even though it doesn't mean death. And petrification and polymorph are elsewhere, even though they -do- essentially mean you're out.

>>52736286
>because they both mean you die if you flub the roll

There are poisons that just cause a lot of damage.

>>52736321
>There are poisons that just cause a lot of damage.
AFAIK there aren't in B/X. There definitely aren't in OD&D where the division originates.

Anyway, the point is, even if it did get diluted, the superior way is to arrange by effect. That way when you need to consider what save to roll against a novel effect, it's much easier for you to figure out what's appropriate, and there's less room for gamebreaking shit to arise by accident (or opting strategy on the player's part).

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>>52736321
>even though they -do- essentially mean you're out.
Dave v. Death is for rolling a new character.
Dave v. Paralyze is for raiding the fridge while combat finishes.
Dave v. Stone is for dipping in to the party's funds to get cured.

>>52736321
>There are poisons that just cause a lot of damage.
So... use Save v. breath fort those ones.

>>52736284
>I actually have not heard of the Judges Guild stuff.
"The fools who came before you were wiser than you'll ever be", and all that.
Originality isn't dead, but the OSR has basically just been reinventing the wheel.
Pic very much related.

>>52736392
>So... use Save v. breath fort those ones.

So all poison breath deals only damage while the rest of the poison is instakill? That seems kind of rigid and nonsensical.

>>52736392
>Dave v. Stone is for dipping in to the party's funds to get cured.

Stone to Flesh is a sixth level spell. Raise Dead is a fifth level spell. It's easier to fix death than it is to fix petrification, so this doesn't make much sense to me.

>>52736440
Breath is the "take partial damage from things that are guaranteed to hurt" save.

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I've begun working on a 'campaign' of sort and been wanting to do a hexcrawl set in a rather alien and trippy world where the exploration and 'sight-seeing' can be a secondary objective and goal of it's own. Thing is, I've never done a hexcrawl or sandbox. What elements should I add? How should I design the region?

>>52736454
Then why isn't it called that?

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>>52736284
Eh, a word of warning. JG stuff is great, but not very usable at the table.
Remember I said "cheatsheet with shortcuts"? JG has none. In general, old school has none. Try to streamline everything you use at the table.

For example, you have to roll each 2 turns for encounters (a 1 on a d6) then roll again on your wantering monster list. Oh and torches burn in one hour, lamps in 4. Idk mate that's a hella lot of stuff to compute and roll before asking "what do you do?"
Instead, write a d20 list of events; you roll on it every turn. 1-8 are monsters/NPCs, 9-11 is torch out (lamps get 4 hits), 12+ nothing happens. You get the basics of exploration, all in a roll -- and you can roll encounter surprise* at the same time, so you know if the players will encounter something, what, and if they will have the upper ground.

*Get chinese dice. They are d6 with pips, but come with 2 sides painted red. Red=2/6 chance, the same as PCs ambush chance and a lot of other things. It's visual (!)
I roll it with my d20 and if it comes up red, I can foreshadow the encounter to the players, leaving them some room to prepare an ambush or avoid the encounter altogether.

>>52736454
How come Fireball is a save vs spell then?

>>52736440
>So all poison breath deals only damage while the rest of the poison is instakill?
No, you're confusing cause and effect again. He's saying that the "breath" part is really irrelevant except as accessible terminology, the part that matters is "brontocular damage". Dragon breath has the characteristic of doing a fixed, large amount of HP damage which can only be saved against for half damage in normal circumstances (i.e., barring fire immunity and similar). If a poison has a similar effect of doing a set large amount of damage, use the same save procedure regardless of what it's called. It's the principle that matters, not the description.

>>52736459
I should add: ideally I'd try to make the region relatively small but large enough for it to have scattered primitive town, tribes or roaming nomadic/temporary 'town'. What would a good scale for that be?

>>52736498
All right, so why the fuck do they need to have such confusing names? Why isn't it just called "Save against unavoidable nuclear blast"?