/osrg/ OSR General - Choice Cut Edition

>>52687443
>Everything else being equal, what is your go-to class?

Fighters are awesome, both thematically and mechanically. Always liked to play a sort of a big strong brawler type with some brutal cunning,

I once played a fighter with 10 strength and 18 intelligence.

File: wewew.png (23KB, 1515x311px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 1515x311px

>>52687443
Buffoon.

>>52687546
I still don't know where that's from. Ready Ref Sheets was named but it had nothing.

>>52687443
Thief. I appreciate the insurance more than I do any other class's toys.

>>52687546
What font is thatr?

>>52687566
page 14

>>52687546
where is THIS from, tho? it's a crappy scan but not from Ready Ref.

>>52687566
>>52687586
>>52687610
It's from City State of The Invincible Overlord. It's on page 73.

File: buffoon.png (211KB, 1654x724px) Image search: [Google]

211KB, 1654x724px

>>52687634
It is weird that witticism rules preceded the buffoon rules.

>>52687546
Would it have killed you to include the associated rules?

File: wewewew.png (66KB, 1019x391px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 1019x391px

>>52687796
I'm a lazy bastard, that's why.

>>52687909
Too lazy to drag the selector over just a little wider area before cropping it?

File: wowowow.png (2MB, 1518x1362px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1518x1362px

>>52687993
Yes indeed.

File: lain-is-a-bear.jpg (48KB, 1008x720px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 1008x720px

>kind of want Veins of the Earth but $70 and the home needs some fixing up...

Since there was a new thread right before I made my post, I will post it again.

Does anyone here have experience running Yoon-Suin?

If so, do you have any advice on how to run it? Other supplements I should check out that helped you with it? Even short tables possibly.

Plus if there are any modules that you recommend dropping in?

Thanks!

File: i-feel-i-feel-you-you-deeply-your-feeling-i-1440483.png (266KB, 500x1191px) Image search: [Google]

266KB, 500x1191px

>>52688046

What is the best old school version of D&D? I'm thinking either OD&D (and maybe a suppelment or two) or AD&D 1E. What do you suggest?

>>52688153
>OD&D (and maybe a suppelment or two)
It's not OD&D without the supplements.

And while LBB is /very/ good, it's not what you're looking for.

>or AD&D 1E
Virtually indistinguishable from OD&D, but slightly less playable.
Good for poaching content, not so good for playing straight.

>What do you suggest?
B/X or 2e. With choice bits from AD&D, if you are a total baller.

>>52688153
Either B/X or AD&D 2e. B/X is the simplest and most bare-bones one, probably, with only the basic rules in it and the rest you can just come up with whenever it feels appropriate to you. 2e, meanwhile, is basically the exact opposite - combination mostly every rule published in D&D over the years, refining them to something more or less playable, then adding a whole bunch of its own shit.

Being a man that favors options over simplicity, I myself tend to go with 2e.

File: wowow.png (46KB, 1115x415px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 1115x415px

>>52688153
OD&D with all supplements plus Ready Ref Sheets. Make sure to use Chainmail for combat too.

DCC. Worth it? Looks like a playable HackMaster....

>>52688197
>And while LBB is /very/ good, it's not what you're looking for.
Why's that?

>>52688153

B/X is the best, hands down, IMO. Clean, simple, readable, easy to reference, tightly focused on doing what it does really well.

>>52688335
DCC has some cool bits to it, yeah. It's got pretty awesome and distinct classes, great philosophy on how monsters and magic work, neat magic weapon tables, and of course, some of the best adventure modules and campaign settings on this side of OSR.

I also rather like luck, though a lot of other people don't.

>>52688471
I'm on the fence for the new kickstarter, so thanks!

>>52688267
>Ready Ref Sheets
What are those?

>>52688581
You're in for a treat

File: weeeew.jpg (2MB, 3248x2156px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3248x2156px

>>52688581
Look it up in the trove. You'll love it.

File: 1465096576175.jpg (230KB, 1200x850px) Image search: [Google]

230KB, 1200x850px

I feel like B/X works really well for one-shot modules and tightly knit adventures, but OD&D seems more suited for big campaigns and emergent worldbuilding. Would you agree?

>>52688046
Anyone got the PDF? Its absurd you can't buy seperate considering the cost of the hard copy.

>>52687909
man that is some edgy crap

>>52688046
I can feel you, had to reduce my pledge on the ACKS Kickstarter from 55 to 10 dollars for financial reasons(unless I get lucky and can get some more money next week)

>>52689380
It'll most likely be up on rpg in a few weeks. Raggi had to travel to a convention as soon as the prints arrived, so he probably hasn't had time to deal with digital distribution yet.

>>52689423
>rpg
I meant rpgnow.com

>>52688046
I'm there with you.
I'm a completionist too with LOTFP so it's painful seeing something like this being so stupidly expensive.

File: Andrew & Heleen Durston - Only Acrobats Need Apply.pdf (441KB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

441KB, 1x1px

>>52688066
Haven't played it straight but I use the tables and appendices for all kinds of stuff. Cults, shrines, omens, trade caravans, hoodlums, hirelings.

If you're running the yellow city I'd advise making a short blurb to get across important ideas and themes in the city while making characters and have a chunk of map made. It'll help them think of stuff to look for and try to do in the urban environment.

A map/1page dungeon of a noble/slugmen/opium house seems like a good idea. pdf attached seems like it would be handy for a rooftop chase in slums.

How do you turn The Mummy (2000) into a euro medieval D&D short campaign?

>>52689614
Eh, does it have to be medieval?
I'd just use a concept that a lot of people have toyed with for Ravenloft.
>advanced domains like Lamordia and Dementlieu experience a fad where mummies and shit are all the rage
>PCs are part of an "archaeologist" team sent to smash and grab in the Amber Wastes (specifically Har'akir and Sebua)
>you could even work in Touch of Death somehow

Or you could run The Awakening.

>>52689445
It's already up there for 20 bucks though. You can grab it whenever

>>52689614
>plan city crawls in Jerusalem
>intrigue and conflict between crusaders and caliphate
>wandering tribes of berbers trying to keep anyone from unleashing ancient evils
>cool themes of monotheist conflict that unearths older pagan bad times in desert tombs
>players stop in Constantinople first, loot the shit out of it, retire back to euope

checks out

Is there anything of substance in the AD&D2E DMG that's not in the PHB? I prefer hardcopies and I'd rather not buy and lug around 2 books.

>>52689801
Well in that case I don't know what the other guy was talking about.

>>52689985
Race generation if you're into that sort of stuff, spell research and magic item creation rules, class-specific experience point awards, rules for getting lost, and of course treasure tables.

>>52689607
Oh this is awesome. I think this is how I will start the campaign. Maybe I will need to go through the One-Page dungeon contests and put them in

>>52690036
So really nothing with the rules of playing, just helpful stuff for running a campaign? Probably won't bother then. Thanks.

>>52690195
Yeah, most of those things can be found from a bunch of other books, not the least the 1st edition DMG, which is pretty superior to 2e's all around.

Are there any good source books for fun, fair, non-Grimtooth traps?

File: settlement stock generator.png (25KB, 912x339px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 912x339px

Just whipped this simple thing up. Is it helpful to anyone?

>>52688680
what crazy nested folder am i looking for?

>>52690495
Check Judge's Guild.

Speaking of Judge's Guild... outside of Tegel Manor, Dark Tower, and Caverns of Thracia, what worthwhile adventure modules do they have?

>>52690495
02_Supplements, and then Judges Guild (the company that made Ready Ref Sheets). That's where it used to be, listed as JG14, though it isn't even there anymore, which sucks.

>>52690664
that sucks. who is the custodian for this mega?

>>52690664
>>52690741
It's in the "main stuff" folder.

File: 1489801228602.jpg (4MB, 3731x2309px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 3731x2309px

>>52690485
Neat.

Might want to use some modifiers, unless 2 rations for a village is going to mean "famine and possibly cannibalism in short order". Maybe 1d100+party size, or +10?

That's also interesting.

>>52688366
If you can stomach all abstractions, every day, forever, then go for it.

But it only superficially resembles other editions of TSR D&D.
A lot of paradigms you're used to (6 attributes, etc.) /look/ like they're there, but actually aren't.

>>52691024
One thing I think is seriously underrated about LBB is how high ability scores are of tremendous value, but its done in a far more tasteful fashion than BECMI, B/x, WotC editions, etc., and you're hardly fucked without them.

>>52690783
ah, cheers. my tablet was in portrait mode, I didn't see the file name.

>>52687586
>What font is thatr?
Blurroon.

File: 1491113929936.jpg (172KB, 640x800px) Image search: [Google]

172KB, 640x800px

>>52687909
So I didn't read this as "edgy" at first. I read it as "kind of comical".

I imagined the lizard people as fat little crocodile dudes with skinny arms. They keep scoffing down kittens and mice. You can order an Imperial Pale Ape at the bar. They are completely baffled as to why humans cook meat or think it's somehow kinder to kill an animal out of sight before eating it. The animal dies anyway, right?

The lizard guys /love/ eating people though. They aren't subtle. They don't consider it an offense or even a problem. They'll eat each other too, if they get bored. They drool a lot. They haggle. Only the most credulous person would ever accept an invitation from the lizard guy who keeps staring at them and holding their cutlery. If you've got slaves to spare, there are worse fates than being coated in delicious sauce and sold to the lizard guys for lunch.

>>52691010
Good point, I might do that. Although I guess the current one allows for some emergent storytelling to happen. Maybe the settlement can only sell two rations because they are constantly attacked by raiders? Maybe the PCs can do something about that?
By the way, nice taste in art anon.

>>52691147
Yeah I agree, it's more comical than anything else. I like the detail you added about them eating each other when they're bored, too.

File: ariel-perez-lw-copy.jpg (352KB, 1306x1455px) Image search: [Google]

352KB, 1306x1455px

>>52691275
Yeah, you could add a line about emergent story elements (famine, tool shortage, a recent plague or war) and that might cover it.

As for the lizard guys... you know what the really dumb thing is? They buy each other to eat. And they haggle over it too. I mean, you're going to get eaten, and you don't exactly have a lot of heirs or charitable causes to give you legacy to because you're a lizard guy. Why haggle?

Also, they aren't cruel about it. Vegans or religious ascetics see regular people like we see lizard people, but even then, the lizard people just don't give a fuck. They follow the laws - no eating things you didn't pay for - but they don't get what all the fuss is about. Of course you can eat a baby. You eat eggs, right?

>>52689693
Be sure to stick a mellified man in there somewhere.

>>52690644
None of them are bad.

All right, so getting treasure is even more important in OSR, where it also gives you the vast majority of your experience.

But all those piles of gold coins as treasure are not only boring as hell, they're also nonsensical and stupid - there are entire essays on the subject of why so much gold just lying around won't make a lick of sense.

On the other hand, trying to give the players other sort of treasure - art objects, gems, etc. - overwhelms the campaign with needless detail, to the point where they're so overwhelmed they tend to just put them to the bottom of their inventories and forget all about their existence. That's even worse!

What's a good balance to this? How can you make treasure that's sensible, not boring, and actually acknowledged by the players?

File: Maha_Yodha_Raktabeej_Fin_Full-CG-HUB.jpg (957KB, 1500x857px) Image search: [Google]

957KB, 1500x857px

>>52689693
That's a lot of name-dropping, anon.

>>52691382
Turns out that pickling your dead in ooze makes them immortal, or so the ancients believed. They moved and acted like men. Slow, hungry, and confused men, but still. Why not make your king's body immortal, so that when his soul returns from the attentions of the 1072 Extremely Large Breasted Maidens of Paradise, he'll be able to hop right in and rule his kingdom?

Of course, this means you've got tomb complexes full of ooze-skeletons who are immune to pretty much everything except completely squashing, fire, or acid. They are dumb as rocks and extremely slow.

Unless they ate a wizard. That's a recipe for trouble. When a wizard dies, any spells in their brain gets stuck their and start to ferment. Wizard skulls are pretty much spellbooks in some areas. And an ooze that slowly, over a decades-long embrace, eats a dead and fully loaded wizard is going to turn out /really/ weird.

>>52691377
Now all I want to know is where that money goes once the seller gets eaten. It wouldn't really be a deal if the eater just takes his money back, so where does it go? Perhaps it's used to pay for the seller's funeral, or maybe it goes into some kind of lizardman social assistance program...

>>52691459
Change to a silver standard like in LotFP. Throw in some art and gems for good measure.

>>52691489
Presumably, the lizard eats it alongside their meal.
I guess that makes it a condiment?

>>52691499
I don't really see how silver standard would fix the problem. There's still a lot of wealth out there that came apparently out of nowhere.

>>52687443
Cleric.
Fight + Spells.
Plate armor + smashy hammers.
Fucks undead up.
Aleena.

>>52689363
Why?

File: 1490288303163.jpg (691KB, 1280x960px) Image search: [Google]

691KB, 1280x960px

>>52691459
This is a perpetual problem.

Some people say you only get XP for gold you spend, so the issue is moot - you need to get that stuff into the economy in order to progress. No hoards for you.

And "art worth 100gp" is just "100gp I can't fit into my pocket".

Give players things to spend a ton of money on. Castles, guilds, followers, politics, religion, a brothel, a village, and taxes. Always taxes. Adventurer tax is 20% in most kingdoms, and in return, the King still thinks you're disreputable disorderly shit-disturbers.

And tune down the XP values a bit. Readjust currency so that a small purse full of gold /really/ feels important. I mean, it would be important to you, right?

File: ZKFnv.jpg (91KB, 751x1153px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 751x1153px

>>52691489
>>52691525

Next nearest lizard that isn't busy eating. "Oh hey look, a penny!"

Lizard guy funerals are basically "oh hey look, he's dead, and reasonably fresh too. Mmm..." If the victim died of something horrible or unflavourful he's just chucked onto the nearest rubbish pile. Lizard guys understand gods exist, but are too stupid to invent any, and are slightly resentful of this.

>>52688046
I bought it. With shipping to Australia it came to ~$120.
I will likely regret this, as the Easter long weekend followed by ANZAC Day will reduce my income considerably for the rest of this month.

But LotFP hardcopies have always been worth buying 100% of the time.

Sorry, I will not share the PDF so don't ask.

>>52691526
And will vanish into apparently nowhere when your wizard summons one demon too many.
Or when your fighter decides to pull The Tower from your Thief's magic tarot.
Or when your bard's half-dragon daughter's boyfriend kills your Cleric and steals his motte-and-bailey.
Or when you die in the pitfall, and your /secret/ base falls off the map.
Or when the travelling merchants hike up prices, then tank their homeland's economy.
Or when your illusionist eats his share of the gold, then hibernates for the winter.

>>52691547
Because B/X seems to be very heavily focused on rules for dungeoncrawling and overworld adventuring. It's clear and rigid in almost a boardgame sense. OD&D however feels more loose, like what's in the books is but one way of doing things. It feels like it's made to be expanded upon in a greater sense than the more "complete" B/X.

>>52691526
>There's still a lot of wealth out there that came apparently out of nowhere.

>his setting doesn't have a vast howling wilderness full of monster-haunted ruins from the collapse of the Great Golden Age, where the vast wealth of lost empires is gathered by barely intelligent creatures to impress both rivals and mates with its shine

Man, you are fuckin' up.

>>52691483
>That's a lot of name-dropping, anon.
No point in mentioning a setting if your aren't going to drop specific names.

>>52691459
Rivers of treasure abound but I give gold-per-xp in the following way:
>a. 2 GP looted = 1 XP
>b. 2 GP of mundane or adventuring gear bought/sold = 1 xp
>c. 1 GP of totally frivolous fluff expenses like gnome wine with buttered chuul legs = 1 XP
>d. 1 GP of sold treasure (art, gems, potions, scrolls) = 1 XP

>>52691639
>B/X seems to be very heavily focused on rules for dungeoncrawling
Huh, I only exclusively run megadungeon crawling adventures now, I should check out B/X.

File: SisMDJd.gif (2MB, 454x281px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 454x281px

>>52691646
>dragons are bower birds.

That'd do it.

"I have captured ALL the blue princesses in the realm. I'm very impressive. Have my babies."

>>52691525
>>52691587
I see. Maybe the haggling is actually them arguing what amount and kind of seasoning is the most flavorful. That might also be the reason why they don't just kill each other, it'll just taste bland.

Do you have a blog, dude? I'm digging this.

>>52691679
B doesn't even have rules for "outside the dungeon," those are in X.
*Probably has rules for towns, etc. Been a while since I've read it.

>>52691712
Not even Skerples, but here's his blog:
http://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.com/

>>52691679
I mean, the game has rules for how doors work and how long you must rest after fleeing. I don't see that much detail in most retroclones.

File: 1272248653253.jpg (87KB, 400x600px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 400x600px

>>52691712
Pppft, seasoning. Like a human. That's craziness. Powdered vegetables and rocks on your food? I bet you peel them too.

Anyway, you can find my rambling here:
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/

Most of it's not as silly as the Lizard Guys though.

I might write them up.

>>52691459
Lower all EXP costs by 4/5ths. Make monsters give even less. That way you can get away with smaller treasures. Also, count land conquered as a treasure.

File: 8613313.png (10KB, 745x637px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 745x637px

>>52691726
>>52691757
>http://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.com/
I should have known!
I'd love a writeup, honestly. I might steal this idea for my own campaign.

File: the_dark_by_sandara-d2xok0i.jpg (462KB, 1200x848px) Image search: [Google]

462KB, 1200x848px

>>52691726
Guess I'm internet famous now. My posts are regularly getting tens of views.


>>52691631
>Or when your illusionist eats his share of the gold, then hibernates for the winter.

That's dragons, anon.

Or is it bears?

Dragonbears? Big, scaly short-faced lizard things with a fringe of quills and a mean temper.

>>52691681

It works for intelligent monsters, too. Even if they don't trade or have any use for it, they know that if you have some then dangerous humans will eventually try to take it from you by force.
If you have a lot, then you're clearly strong enough to keep it, so it becomes a symbol of strength, and then their chieftains fight each other to build the biggest pile and thereby prove himself the strongest and most dangerous of all.

>>52691771
>Also, count land conquered as a treasure.

Man, I always hated that shit. I don't like to play landowners or strongholds, I prefer walking the earth and going from an adventure town to another with nothing to bind you anywhere.

File: savvy illusionist.png (588KB, 918x4643px) Image search: [Google]

588KB, 918x4643px

>>>52691781 That's dragons, anon.
For a guy who likes weird magic, your magic-users are pretty... normal.

File: 1449215180997.jpg (175KB, 900x675px) Image search: [Google]

175KB, 900x675px

>>52691788
And that's fine. Just make sure the rest of the group and you GM are on board with that concept, or you'll run into problems.

>>52691782
>convince orcs that cats are valuable
>get rid of all local cats, plus, start a catpocalypse in the orc fort
>profit

>>52691815
I prefer "tropey".

The players asked for a "standard" game so I gave 'em "standard" wizards. A lot of the weirdness is emerging through gameplay and player choices.

>>52691889
>And that's fine. Just make sure the rest of the group and you GM are on board with that concept, or you'll run into problems.

Fortunately I'm a foreverGM, so it's hardly never an issue. I just give the party a bunch of lore on distant lands and hooks taking place therein, and they rarely see any reason to stick around in one place.

>>52691889 That picture is making me wonder, have you ever played GOBLET GROTTO?
Not sure if my perspective is badly skewed, or what exactly, but most of thecatamites work gives me an OSR vibe.

File: lemure.png (543KB, 900x508px) Image search: [Google]

543KB, 900x508px

>>52691949
I have not, but some quick googling tells me it's interesting and weird and an excellent thing to steal from.

So hooray.

>>52683434
Pretty sure they got de-stoned by the potion she carries, though the DM made it a bit harder since she was friendly by making them kill the chief first. Its been a year or two since I read it, sorry, and also sorry for the really late reply.

File: jeff-hong-02.jpg (767KB, 1920x1242px) Image search: [Google]

767KB, 1920x1242px

>>52691777
>I'd love a writeup, honestly.

Ok, working on it now. Looks like animist wizards are delayed another day.

Just kidding. The post has barely been started.

Does anyone know of any good videos of people actually playing B/X or running a hexcrawl? I've started running loose B/X for my group, and I'm pretty sure I'm Doing It Wrong™.

File: 86194ad0eee5c605f9486df12a8ded82.jpg (36KB, 438x459px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 438x459px

52692258<<

We need an OSR art thread. There's some great stuff out there, both old and new.

File: WUhL4Up.jpg (400KB, 1600x1200px) Image search: [Google]

400KB, 1600x1200px

>>52692314
No worries anon. One day. One day.

In the meantime, to tide you over, an Animist Wizard in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vgSMFLt_No

>>52692305
I think it's OD&D, but this video of Frank Mentzer DMing is pretty interesting for showing how the old TSR people run the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7GaBs7x5LU

>>52688046
>Veins of the Earth
What is this? Google only gives me some kind of Rogue-like video game?

>>52692490
LotFP's new module. By the same people who made Deep Carbon Observatory and Fire on the Velvet Horizon.

File: t3_63p6wd.jpg (975KB, 1725x2027px) Image search: [Google]

975KB, 1725x2027px

>>52692490
http://falsemachine.blogspot.ca/2017/04/the-history-of-veins-of-earth.html

>>52692358
I would be so bored with that many people.

>>52692518
Oh, damn, I want that too.

How long would it take most modern signs of civilization to crumble away?

>>52692518
Those sound delightfully strange.

>>52692679

Hundreds of thousands of years.

Ironically, bronze age tools and weapons will probably be around forever due to the properties of bronze. So if aliens visit earth millions and millions of years from now the most they'll know about humanity was probably the greeks.

>>52692679
>How long would it take most modern signs of civilization to crumble away?
What do you mean by that? Like no more buildings and roads and shit? Or just governmental and social structures completely collapsing?

>>52692679
Depends on what state it's left in, I suppose.

>>52692732
Like if modern human civilization became totally nonviable (lets say everyone's dead for simplicity's sake), how long til most buildings just were plain unrecognizable?

>>52692723
What about skyscrapers and suburbs and such? Roads too.

File: 1489602992565.jpg (344KB, 1200x803px) Image search: [Google]

344KB, 1200x803px

>>52692825
You're aware this question is easily googled, right?

This is the perfect question for google. Go do some research and come back to us with an answer.

>>52692723
We have so much more shit now than they had back then. That's partly due to a global population that's maybe 40 times larger, partly due to the fact that we're much wealthier as a whole (far fewer of us are essentially subsistence farmers), and partly due to the fact that modern technology lets us mass produce all kinds of crazy shit for relatively little cost. I'd be surprised if we didn't have literally millions of times more shit than they had. And some of that shit is made to be durable. Hell, we probably have at least as much bronze shit now as they had back then. It's not the same shit, obviously, and it's not a big deal to us because it's just a drop in the bucket compared to the other shit we have, but it's still there.

>>52692825
>What about skyscrapers and suburbs and such? Roads too.

Remember that bronze age simpletons made the pyramids that are still standing today, mostly whole, 6000 years later.

We live today in a much more advanced culture where every single architect is required to go through many years of rigorous education that build in a culture obsessed with safety codes and regulations so that building's don't collapse on people's heads.

Do the math.

File: 1485755107626.jpg (121KB, 1024x802px) Image search: [Google]

121KB, 1024x802px

>>52687443
>>Everything else being equal, what is your go-to class?
Fighter.
Best hit dice (unless barbarians are allowed), able to use all weapons and armor, maximum Thac0 progression, and on top of all that gain nobility and command of a personal army at higher levels?
Sign me the fuck up.
Having a set of platemail has been so useful in adventuring I actually feel bad for the rest of the party who isn't a fighter sometimes.

Questions from someone who has only ever played 3.PF:

-What kind of game/setting is 2e best suited for?
-I found a copy of the 2e PHB, is that all I need to comprehensively run a game for my PF friends? Assuming I stat all of the monsters myself.
-Any succinct tips for introducing people/oneself to oldschool RPGs via 2e?

>>52692825
I'm not sure exactly, but I think we're talking about a geologic timescale here, at least to cover up all but a tiny percentage of the most durable, long-lasting signs of human civilization. If we're just talking about most signs, that gets trickier. Does that mean that 51% of road area has been destroyed or obscured? 90% 99%? Because my guess is that you'd see a parabolic scale here, with it taking longer and longer to go each percentage points as the last remaining things become more and more durable on average. And there's shit like the Hoover Dam...

>>52692968
>-What kind of game/setting is 2e best suited for?
Any except for Modern or sci-fi settings. With those, the DEX and INT stats far outclass any others.
>-I found a copy of the 2e PHB, is that all I need to comprehensively run a game for my PF friends? Assuming I stat all of the monsters myself.
The Dungeon Master's guide has more information on specific things the players don't need to be privy to, such as travel time and environmental hazards. These are frequently important.
>-Any succinct tips for introducing people/oneself to oldschool RPGs via 2e?
Play it.

>>52692876
>bronze age simpletons

Do you know how to farm without modern technology? Do you know how to properly fertilize crops using only livestock? Do you know how to build a house out of mudbrick? Do you know how to build it so that it doesn't collapse like a heap of LEGO?

Just because someone in the past didn't know about elfgames, gender studies, and germ theory doesn't make him inferior to you. They knew more practical knowledge than you do.

Wisdom is the cleric's prime requisite and makes the PC more resistant to magic, but I want it to do something more than that. Do you guys have any ideas?

>>52693072
But I have more theoretical knowledge than them, which makes me theoretically superior.

>>52692825
>What about skyscrapers and suburbs and such? Roads too.
I watched a documentary on this once. Without routine maintenance, most of that only lasts a few decades. Less than 2 centuries at best.
Much longer if you don't want chunks of the ruins to vagely resemble the buildings they used to be, of course.

>>52693072
I'm pretty sure he was just being flippant. In terms of industrial capacity though, Old Kingdom Egypt is so far our inferior that it's difficult to even put us on the same scale.

>>52692968
There are obviously differences in mechanics, but those aren't as important as the core assumptions of play.

The main difference is that 3.x onwards creates an assumption that you can kill anything in the encounter. You don't HAVE to run games like that, but they crop up because that's how the game wants you to play and rewards you for doing so. It's the difference between 3 encounters of meticulously scaling difficulty while sacking the castle versus actually sacking the fucking castle. It's encouraged that punches are not pulled and that players will need to interact with your world in more meaningful ways than slicing it with their swords.

The other core difference is that 3.x codifies a lot of things, specifically with combat (styles, martial techniques for example) are there to avoid excessive and unbalanced rulings. The only problem is that while the mechanics help to add flavor to a character, they severely limit the perceived repertoire of what a character can do, there are now "moves" and they exist mostly in abstractions and only serve to reinforce the reality that the game wants you to kill things.

2e is a game that may be more rules heavy than B/X but the maxim "rulings, not rules" still rules the day IMO. That's part of the reason why 2e runs so well as a sandbox game or as a "thieves" city campaign.

>>52693072
>and germ theory
The Romans didn't have germ theory, but their medical practitioners knew about sanitizing.

>>52693112
>Do you guys have any ideas?
No, but you've listed more ideas than Gygax came up with.

It's only in the game so that having aptitude for Clerical shizz =/= having aptitude for Magic-User'ing.

>>52693233
I have a hard time coming up with cleric lore in my games. Just doesn't interest me. I usually just chalk em up to being like a doctor of a manor or something. He might look at crops or help mend broken bones, but he's more like a public servant than anything else.

>>52693032
Alright, I'll have to grab a 2e DMG.

And I was only considering a fantasy setting. 2e is probably versatile but with the limited class/skill options in the PHB isn't there a style of game that it best lends itself to? Straight and brutal dungeon crawler perhaps?
I'm at a bit of a loss as to what my starting point should be if I want to broach the system to my group with an archetypal oldschool adventure.

>>52693266
AD&D 2e has got all the cleric lore you could ever need in The Complete Priest's Handbook, Monster Mythology, and Legends & Lore.

I'd even argue that 2e's Priests are the best implementation in the entire franchise.

>>52693319
>Alright, I'll have to grab a 2e DMG.
Grab the 1st Edition copy instead, it's Gygax's magnum opus.
It's got some extraneous bits you won't care about, but all the stuff you need a DMG for will be in there (and compatible).

>>52693429
>Grab the 1st Edition copy in addition, it's full of Gygaxian bullshit but it has a few useful charts

FTFY

>>52692876

They chose the pyramid because it was extreamely stable and resistant to erosion -- as can be easily observed by watching sand dunes. Also the pyramids are massive and solid, what wear does happen isn't going to cause them to collapse in on themselves.
That's not really true of modern structures. They need maintenance and to sometimes be torn down to be rebuilt.

File: hqdefault.jpg (22KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 480x360px

>>52693319
>limited class/skill options
GM fiat, arbitration, and spot rulings are expected to hold up any reasonable activities the rules don't cover.
Homebrew is also the norm. >>52688032 is a good example of how little work it takes to make Guybrush Threepwood playable.

>>52693429
If that's the case I'll likely have to read it just for its historic significance.

>>52693451
Can oldschool DMGs be reduced to common sense and a handful of useful charts?

File: human civilization disappears.png (221KB, 844x1940px) Image search: [Google]

221KB, 844x1940px

>>52692825
The formatting on this table obviously got screwed up, leading to unreliable pairings sometimes (it seems to say that the longest lasting structures will take hundreds of years to disappear, while other, less long lasting ones will take tens or hundreds of thousands of years, which clearly doesn't make sense), and I can't vouch for the science behind these conclusion, but it is at least food for thought.

>>52693505
>Can oldschool DMGs be reduced to common sense and a handful of useful charts?
The 1e DMG is mostly a treasure trove of ideas, I think. Well, that and vital tables like to-hit, saving throws, experience, and magic treasure. I think it actually has a lot less guidance in terms of the basics of GMing than more modern books tend to have.

File: gygax.pdf (7MB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

7MB, 1x1px

>>52693505
>If that's the case I'll likely have to read it just for its historic significance.
Both DMGs are in the Trove.
Take a look at them before deciding which to buy.

>Can oldschool DMGs be reduced to common sense
We call this "experience."
>and a handful of useful charts?
We call these "DM screens."

>I'll likely have to read it
>reduced to common sense
Speaking of which, Gygax wrote a book of system agnostic GM tips once.

File: geologist_2x.png (75KB, 1425x507px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 1425x507px

>>52693522
>while other, less long lasting ones will take tens or hundreds of thousands of years
Broken slabs of concrete look pretty similar to slabs of concrete. They stop looking like buildings pretty quickly, but keep looking like concrete until some /serious/ geologic activity goes by.

>>52688153
>What is the best old school version of D&D?
BECMI or 1E. I love LBB OD&D but agree with this guy. >>52688197 >>52691024

Long time roleplayer looking to get into this old school stuff.

What scale hexes are good for your hexcrawl?
How many PoIs (on average) per hex?
Should the players be aware of the hexes?

>>52689607
Man, this is such a good concept and then it falls totally flat on execution.
>preposterously crowded rooftops obviously for pure gameplay reasons
>new-school, so much of the challenge is reduced to seeing if you can roll well a certain number of times in a row
>excessive regularity in the street grid is neither realistic nor fun
>it also seems to presume medieval townhouses are about two stories high rather than like four as was the case historically
>the recurring tile roof problem is maybe the only good mechanic
I'd love to see somebody do this right for an OSR game, though. I'd imagine most of the challenge would have to be avoiding fuckery from the guards below, shaking the guards off (there shouldn't be a guaranteed "fleeing point", I think), and using player skill to find clever ways of minimizing the number of dangerous leaps and shit you have to make so that you don't fall to the street and straight out die from a broken neck. One or two odd rooftop occurrences is fine as a spice, I guess.

File: sixmilehex+copy.png (144KB, 1034x1200px) Image search: [Google]

144KB, 1034x1200px

>>52693804

6 miles is a favored size, as you can see the edge of the next hex on the horizon given reasonably flat terrain. A lot of folks like 5 miles though because it divides/multiplies so easily by fives, a lot of old Judges' Guild and TSR modules did 5 mile hexes. It's not that big a difference, though.

Usually 0-1, but feel free to put a second hidden feature in here and there.

It's up to you, but I feel hexes are really just a book-keeping thing for the DM, there's no need for players to interact with them directly.

>>52693804
>What scale hexes are good for your hexcrawl?
Most ancient uses 5 miles hexes, but you want 6 mile or 1 mile.
>How many PoIs (on average) per hex?
Content (even POIs) should be diced off tables you prep for each region.
Towns, Cities, larger Dungeons, etc. should (mostly) be placed ahead of time.
>Should the players be aware of the hexes?
Yes, to speed up play.
But (player notes notwithstanding) any maps the players get should be separate from the hex map.

>>52693879
>A lot of folks like 5 miles though because it divides/multiplies so easily by fives, a lot of old Judges' Guild and TSR modules did 5 mile hexes.
The five-mile hex is explicitly standard in OD&D, that's why. In later editions they decided to count travel in miles instead; unfortunate decision if you ask me.

>>52693871
>preposterously crowded rooftops
The rooftops are a bit... busy, but if anything their sparse.
The buildings are nearly the right amount of packed together, but not quite there.

>>52690485
>Is it helpful to anyone?
It's okay, but there's too much weapons, armor and tools. In a regular village it shouldn't be at all possible to buy a sword, mail shirt or lockpicks, just a cudgel and maybe a scythe or two (but even then, it's pretty unlikely that they wouldn't hoard their spare tools and want more money than normal for them).

Conceptually I like it, though.

>>52693319
>Straight and brutal dungeon crawler perhaps?
If that is ALL you want out of your game, you might be better served by B/X.

>>52693911
I meant the activity, yes. I totally agree about the buildings being too far apart, but I meant the regularity point to address that.

Honestly, in that sense it's a typical desktop construction by an American who's never seen a premodern or early-modern city core. A lot of RPG city supplements have this problem.

>>52691459
>But all those piles of gold coins as treasure are not only boring as hell, they're also nonsensical and stupid - there are entire essays on the subject of why so much gold just lying around won't make a lick of sense.
Eh, it's not THAT bad -- switch to a silver standard and you're pretty much good. I remember a book mentioning that one of the English king's castles (Gaillard, maybe?) during the eleventh or twelfth century cost £50,000 to build -- that's fifty thousand pounds of silver, or twelve million sp/1.2 million gp. It was a fucking elaborate castle and much of the cost was to get it built quickly, but the economy clearly wasn't kill by him spending that money. If the adventurers amass a few million in silver over a couple years it shouldn't be so bad either.

The only real issue is that if you're anal about that sort of thing the sheer quantity of gold would devalue it as a metal, particularly if you use the retarded D&D coin weights as written (but nobody should do that, ever). Since silver was always a fuckload more common that's not an issue in the same way, so use a silver standard, hand out mostly silver and gems, and boom, you're good.

File: jeff-hong-creature02f.jpg (700KB, 1920x1242px) Image search: [Google]

700KB, 1920x1242px

>>52691777
>>52691781
>>52692258
Crocoling time!

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/04/osr-race-crocolings.html

>>52687443
>Everything else being equal, what is your go-to class?
Elf-as-class a best

>>52693871
The things that bother you about it don't bother me so much, seems like you go for more simulation oriented play than I tend to. Opinions ahead: It seems like a poor neighbourhood, there's shit going on there all the time, stuff's crowed. If you want less skill rolls... roll less? Street grid is era dependant, regional, age, socioeconomic, etc. Same for building height. I'm not too worried about historical authenticity when my players are elves with glass for hair and wizards with extra mouths growing out of their lower backs. If that is a thing though, again it being crowded works because more people lived in smaller houses with less personal space. Points against the rows though, poor places tend to be less regular but they might be abandoned/formerly rich.

I'd probably remake the map personally by just zooming out a bit, fucking up some of the buildings based on some faction doing a thing, make stuff more wiggly. Its not like I'm giving the players a map anyway, easy enough to describe the buildings as rotting, or giant mushroom houses or 4 stories tall.

>reading Metro Survive
>suddenly want to run a survival dungeon crawl in Japanese subway systems
>maybe throw in some Dragon Century in for good measure too

>>52693879
>>52693881
Thanks for the responses.
What's a good starting size of a map for a beginner to get their feet wet but still gives the PC space to explore?

File: 1463439300933.jpg (185KB, 900x684px) Image search: [Google]

185KB, 900x684px

>>52694322
All subways are connected if you have the right ticket.

>>52694326

Depends on what you plan on doing. Typical thing is to plop down a town as home base, drop a big dungeon next to (or under) it, and then add a couple days' worth of wilderness hexes around to start. They'll be busy with the big dungeon until they're up a few levels, and you can fill in more of the surrounding world as you go.
Players generally aren't going to move out more than a couple of days' travel at first, not until they know the surrounding regions and have a good handle on what's in your local encounter tables.

>>52694326
30x50 is about as small as you can get before people start walking trying to walk off the edge.
You only need to flesh out around 10x20 though, that's likely more than you'll need.

>>52691147
>They are completely baffled as to why humans cook meat or
Wild animals won't eat cooked food unless they're starving or forced, but animals who've gotten a taste before will go well out of their way to steal it.
"Pre-oxidizing" food to ease digestion is a very alien/unnatural idea, but it's one animals are quick to appreciate (if given the opportunity).

File: 1288663900211.jpg (100KB, 1024x679px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 1024x679px

>>52694933
Exactly. Even dogs and cats love the stuff.

But crocolings don't. They're weird. And dumb. Dumber than a sack of kobolds.

Due to crocoling sexual tastes, kobolds hit /all/ their buttons with the force of a metoric impact. It's like humans and elves, except with way fewer inhibitions.

>>52693195
Eh, D&D's had scaling/encounter balancing systems from the beginning (3LBB), 3e had purposefully overwhelming encounters as well and the very first module released for 5e has an impossible encounter in the first chapter.

File: 1418530925024.jpg (350KB, 600x779px) Image search: [Google]

350KB, 600x779px

>>52694981
>crocoling
If your crocodiles are called murderlogs, shouldn't they be loglings?
Skerples has a kobold fetish. Noted.

File: 127251546973.jpg (56KB, 342x576px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 342x576px

>>52695605
Murderlogs are to crocodiles what owlbears are to owls. They're enhanced creatures with semi-magical abilities. They also grow to be the size of islands, if there's enough to eat. Some say it's because a wizard fucked a crocodile. Some say it's because a wizard made a dryad fuck a crocodile. Some say it's because a dryad fucked a crocodile for the fun of it. But anyway, murderlogs ensued.

Regular crocodiles are practically endangered.

>>52695605
>>52695681
>>52694981
>>>/pfg/

File: 1296837704139.jpg (886KB, 1569x800px) Image search: [Google]

886KB, 1569x800px

>>52695763
Nah, we're good.

File: 1490654041043.jpg (52KB, 400x533px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 400x533px

If you had to pay a year of your life (at the end) to summon a demon for up to 12 hours, what sort of things would you expect in return? What would make it worthwhile?

"An extra year of life" is not a valid answer.

>>52696386

The death and destruction of a serious enemy, or an enemy clan if the demon has that power.

Rob the kings vault and bring everything inside to me.

Strong magical artifact, or a rare and powerful spell.

The greatest 12 hour sex marathon of my life. (Also, a permanent +1 to Cha or Con resulting from it, or maybe just a new forked tongue that lets me get a reaction check with demons now)

File: 'Welcome to the future! Nothing's changed.' was the slogan of my astonishingly short-lived tech startup.png (83KB, 640x582px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 640x582px

>>52696386
>(at the end)
Oddly specific.

File: Rbn5O6l.jpg (498KB, 617x1000px) Image search: [Google]

498KB, 617x1000px

>>52696458
Got to be specific. When your 12 hours is up, you don't want the demon to go "Right, your year starts now. Today you'll be greasing the rotary anal spikes in hell. Careful not to slip."

Got to get the timing right.

>>52696447
Ok, now how do we Monkey's Paw those?

>>52696458

It probably says that so you don't age prematurely or something. I do wonder if that mean the demons get to literally take a year of your life expectancy away or if that means you serve the demon for a year. Could honestly mean either.

>>52696486
>Ok, now how do we Monkey's Paw those?

You don't. Le be careful what you wish for!!1!! are the shittiest kind of stories.

Demons give what they promise, and they take away what they promise. Betraying this trust means nobody will use them again.

>>52696506
>demons
>honoring promises
Lolno, top kek. gg

Demonic pacts are elaborate ruses. Smoke and mirrors. Acting.
Your contract isn't even binding, it's just a prop.
They get you to willfully damn yourself, then trick you out of repenting.

But. They cut. EVERY. Corner. Along the way. Your "servant" probably has 3 other "masters" during their 12 hours.
More likely than not, your tasks are being subcontracted to other demons nearer to whatever you want done.
They're running tight schedules, you see.

File: stepan-alekseev-01s.jpg (132KB, 647x1024px) Image search: [Google]

132KB, 647x1024px

>>52696559
>>52696506
Little of column a, little of column b.

Demons are like really cunning drug dealers. They want to get you hooked. So the first dose is cheap and convenient.

But the death and destruction of your serious enemy and their clan? 3 other clans moved into the power vacuum. Your family is being drawn into the war. You can't hope to survive it... unless you call the demon again.

Rob the king's vault? Get rich? The king can't pay for an ongoing war. Free companies roam the land. Is your new treasure hoard safe? Do you dare use it to buy mercenaries for protection? Or do you call on your old friend?

Strong magical artifact? Someone else /really/ needed that. Rare and powerful spell? Rare and powerful butterfly effect.

Sex marathon? Your wife looks like a boiled fish now. You /need/ to go back.

>>52696506
>>52696559
>be demon
>betray every fucking deal you get into
>eventually people stop bothering with your kind and just stick you in Imprisonment instead and start summoning things that fulfill the role of a demon except they're called a fnord-derp and don't shit up every story they enter by being needlessly contrary
>use a wish that the dumb ass demons are now called fnord-derps and the actually useful extraplanars are called demons

Voila, now we can have normal storyline sagain

File: shen-yh-150-dhnw3.jpg (154KB, 1060x1500px) Image search: [Google]

154KB, 1060x1500px

>>52697005
>eventually people stop bothering with your kind

You... don't know people very well, do you?

I mean, we know junk food is bad for us. We know smoking and drinking is bad for us. We know global warming is going to kill a lot of people. We just don't give a fuck.

No need to betray a deal either. You get what you want, every time. On time, under budget, and with a ribbon on it. But it turns out, what you wanted isn't always what you needed, and it certainly won't save you.

People are greedy fucks. There were no shortage of people in the pre-modern era willing to sell their souls for completely imaginary power. What would you be willing to do for /actual/ power.

File: Something, something, Skerples.jpg (512KB, 2000x1669px) Image search: [Google]

512KB, 2000x1669px

>>52697073
>We know global warming is going to kill a lot of people.
Something, something, propaganda.
Something, something, cognitive dissonance.

Not saying you're wrong, but I am saying Al Gore had an agenda and I've never heard anyone since make a real argument.

>But it turns out, what you wanted isn't always what you needed, and it certainly won't save you.
Rubbing in when people ask for the wrong thing is golden, but >>52696486 monkey's paw is just being cheap.

File: 1309142397523.jpg (267KB, 1280x794px) Image search: [Google]

267KB, 1280x794px

>>52697154
We ain't arguing global warming in the OSR thread. There's an entire board for that nonsense.

>monkey's paw is just being cheap.

Monkey's Paw wishes are "your wish has unintended consequences".

Most players are smart enough to spot the obvious ones, and demons are fine with that. Nobody's dumb enough to wish for "money" or "someone to come back to life". First rules of dealmaking. The obvious theatrics have to go.

But what's the demon getting out of this?

Make a deal, and you're damned. Your soul is condemned to Hell. Fortunately, you can redeem yourself. You can escape your fate.

This is rather annoying. To prove you don't deserve it, you need to be hustled off to hell as soon as possible, and as thoroughly damned by your own deeds as possible. The demons want a bulletproof case that you are theirs. No substitutions permitted.

So their help always leads to more help. It's designed to. It's subtle and it's quick and it's easy. It doesn't /feel/ like you're being fucked over. It feels like you're evading fate with the demon's help.

And then, when the end comes (and it can't be the demon that kills you, unless you've spent all your years), you're hustled off to Hell with a bulletproof case against you, signed and documented and carefully annotated. And in Hell, you'll be punished for being a stupid and greedy fool.

File: what demons think of vampires.jpg (43KB, 789x110px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 789x110px

>>52697073

>What would you be willing to do for /actual/ power.

Summon something from the next plane over, only that isn't the same contrarian, unfailingly treacherous, Christianish-morality-play-in-nonchristian-setting gooberfiend that fucks over everyone 100% of the time?

>I mean, we know junk food is bad for us. We know smoking and drinking is bad for us.

Those make you feel better (not sure about smoking) in exchange for being nutritionally counterproductive. This makes you feel worse, presumably one-year-of-torture worse, in exchange for, presumably, fucking you over as well, because nothing is cooler than fucking over stupid players who participated in a little minigame thing.

File: 1377539109121.jpg (834KB, 1500x1158px) Image search: [Google]

834KB, 1500x1158px

>>52697260
>Summon something from the next plane over, only that isn't the same contrarian, unfailingly treacherous, Christianish-morality-play-in-nonchristian-setting gooberfiend that fucks over everyone 100% of the time?

So everyone's got a choice in that? Some post-enlightenment era setting where all the world has Rules and all the Rules become Laws?

Somewhere were things make sense. Where people aren't afraid of lightning and have long ago given up superstition. Where magic is as documented as chemistry, and as mundane.

That kind of setting?

Because otherwise, how the hell do you /know/ you have the option to summon alternative things? Who in your setting has read the Monster Manual and knows all the descriptions and effects of all the available spells? Who's got the knowledge of the true nature of the world? Who says it's so?

>participated in a little minigame thing.

Who said anything about a minigame? I think you might be projecting a little. Show me on the doll where the bad GM touched you. Did he use a genie? A Wish spell?

>>52697154
Where is this pic from?

>>52697154
Global warming will change the way things are, and that will create disruptions. We've built our society around the way things are. Changing precipitation patterns can cause droughts in some areas and floods in others, so the wrong places could be wet, and the wrong places could be dry (places we're not prepared for them to be wet or dry). Rising sea levels can erode our coasts and degrade natural or man-made defenses against storm surge. Rising temperatures can allow diseases to spread beyond their normal range. And so on.

I really think you have to stretch to come up with a rationale that explains how global warming won't lead to significant disruptions, and wide-ranging disruptions lead to deaths. This isn't some hippie "mother nature will turn bad and punish you for your crimes" shit. It's not predicting the death of the planet due to our actions or anything like that. The planet has been much hotter than it is now, long before we ever came along, but the planet has also had long periods where it would have been unlivable by us, so maybe that's not the best marker of what we should consider "okay". Nobody who isn't crazy is worried about man-made global warming making the planet actually unlivable (unless maybe they're theorizing about the far future, where all bets are off), but it doesn't need to threaten our very existence as a species to kick us in the teeth, disrupt our lives, and cost us a lot of money.

I never saw An Inconvenient Truth, so I can't really comment on Al Gore and his agenda.

File: devil cat.png (1MB, 750x1334px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 750x1334px

>>52697332

>Who said anything about a minigame?

What we were, presumably, discussing. Remember? Follow the reply chain if you're confused.

If its not a minigame thing any of the PCs can do, and just regular ole "cast this spell to receive a planar visitor," then its even less clear why anyone would go to the plane of Unfailingly Treacherous Torture Fetishists for help.

>That kind of setting?

No, the kind of setting where people know fully fucking well that there's the things that are just as, if not more powerful than demons, far more helpful and not laser guided to fuck you over with 100% certainty. Now granted it is conceivable that some settings may genuinely resemble nothing from history, where nobody knows benevolent spirits of any kind exist, but generally the presence of evil spirits that seek out the dumbest adventurers in the universe to fuck them over with 100% certainty presupposes the other kind.

Good will always triumph over evil because evil is dumb.

>not to mention fundamentally incapable of abiding by even the simplest of agreements

>>52697488
Generally, its easier to adapt your civilization to droughts than it is to survive forcing your entire population to live like the amish until magical technology descends from the skies to save us all.

There is of course the happy middle ground of going on furiously polluting while spending money on secular indulgences, which is presumably the point of global warming propaganda.

File: 1528c9ca580548eb9932229faab6a72a.jpg (324KB, 996x1536px) Image search: [Google]

324KB, 996x1536px

>>52697489
>What we were, presumably, discussing. Remember? Follow the reply chain if you're confused.

I damn well started it, so I'm not likely to be confused. It's not about a minigame. It's about rates of exchange. What do you get for 1 year of life? What can go wrong when you make the trade?

It's not a trivial thing.

>No, the kind of setting where people know fully fucking well that there's the things that are just as, if not more powerful than demons, far more helpful and not laser guided to fuck you over with 100% certainty.

Sounds boring.

If people in a setting have a clear view of how the world works, it all seems a bit silly. And benevolent spirits exist... but they're tedious and require you to be a good person or do some other nonsense like vegitarianism or going to church or wearing silly hats.

And not, for example, throwing wild parties and drinking and accumulating heaps of gold and glory. It's like real life. It's objectively better for you to eat a chicken breast and plain white rice for dinner than an entire pizza, but fuck it, you're ordering out tonight.

Nobody knows they're being fucked with until it's too lat, real life or elsewhere. If you make a bad deal, you justify it. The fallout isn't so bad. It's all fixable.

Plus, demons seek out everyone. Adventurers, being sinful creatures, are just very easy to snare.

People will always triumph over good and evil, because all people are convinced they are good, when in truth, they're just people.

>>52697507
>Generally, its easier to adapt your civilization to droughts than it is to survive forcing your entire population to live like the amish until magical technology descends from the skies to save us all.
I don't want to derail this thread into a science slap fight, so I'll just point to the Dust Bowl as an example of a natural disaster that was significantly influenced by human action, and which could have been greatly reduced in effect if we had behaved differently. An ounce of prevention and all that...

>>52697584
Sure, but the options for preventing the Dust Bowl weren't

1. stop civilization forever until magic descends from the sky to save us (what the most reasonable response is if you believed in GW)
2. continue on exactly as you otherwise would, but throw money at experts until they cause magic technology to descend from the skies to save us all (what you're supposed to do if you believed in GW)
3. honorary mention that the GW people aggressively shut out the only alternative, nuclear power, since the religion of global warming isn't about solutions, its about shoveling money into their fat greedy mouths

>>52696506
agreed Monkey's Paw style wishes are goddamned annoying in fiction, at least when they're treated as the default result of making a wish(the only examples that I can think of that weren't awful were Jafar in Return of Jafar, and Norm the Genie from Fairly Odd Parents), especially since they pretty much always exist for one of two reasons; 1. for a cliche Twilight Zone style twist ending or 2. to ensure a Return To Status Quo ending(pretty much every usage of a wish granting creature or object in an ongoing series in the last 30 years or so)

it's another thing entirely for the wish granting being to start twisting things around cause their master is being a cunt canoe though, that or they try to break any rules you might have to your wishes(like say wishing for more wishes, or bringing someone back to life to give two examples)

>>52697647
if I recall properly wasn't the Dust Bowl at least partially caused by people believing in an incredibly stupid theory about rain distribution, so it technically could have been if not averted then at least reduced in it's intensity if people hadn't believed that theory

also as someone who believes in Climate Change(albeit I don't believe it's anywhere near as bad as some people project, and that a lot of it is natural and not just all because of people), I'm definitely in favor of nuclear power provided it's done safely

>>52697581
I dunno, its hard to think of something more tedious than eternal torture. Plus you can actually make, you know... agreements? with benevolent spirits.

>eat your broccoli
>get broccoli shoveled into every bodily cavity

Plus its a mistake to think that adventurers are necessarily amoral or antiheroic or whatever. Sure, they might be LEL ORGIES N HOOKER Captain Randumbs, but there's nothing inherently sketchy about exploration.

>Nobody knows they're being fucked with until it's too lat, real life or elsewhere.

Is this the Bizarro World? Who doesn't know demons are universally full of shit? Our world *doesn't have demons* and yet almost everyone knows they're full of shit.

I kind of want to make a dungeon / encounter list, or a random table of some kind, but I don't have any ideas.

>>52697693
>cunt canoe
Ooh yes, I love wishes that have limits like any other kind of unit of magical power, and """"clever wording"""" doesn't really get you past that.

"Ok I can't bring back the dead though"
"Just do it"
"uh... I'll try but you won't like it"

>upsetting things happen

>>52697733

Indifferent dungeon denizens like constructs, fungi, etc?

How do you USE Ready Ref Sheets?

I love the content but everything is so convoluted... did someone ever simplify those tables / rewrite them into a clear procedure?

>>52697647
Option 1 is impossible, even if you somehow got everybody to agree to it (which you absolutely could not, so there's really little point in even discussing it). We depend on modern technology to keep our society functioning, and without it there would be mass starvation and so forth.

And you're creating a false dilemma here, where your choices are either "shut everything down" or "keep everything going exactly like it is now". You can increase fuel efficiency standards. You can levy a tax on emissions of green house gasses. You can financial incentivize cleaner energy. You can reduce deforestation. And so on.

And even if public opinion doesn't let you get to where you ideally want to be, a step in the right direction is still an improvement. A guy with a health condition who needs to watch his diet is better off if he sometimes eats stuff that's bad for him than if he always eats stuff that's bad for him.

>>52697823

Of course there are intermediate options between "strangle civilization while hoping magic will save you" and "do nothing while hoping magic will save you."

>You can levy a tax on emissions of green house gasses.

For example, you can only choke civilization a little while hoping magic will save you. Like I said, that's probably the INTENT of global warming propaganda. It won't actually change any of the predictions of the future in any way, but it will kind of make people feel good about themselves as they plug in a low energy light bulb.

The reason GW doesn't really fit in with the aforementioned booze and cigs is there's no option or brave revolutionary third way to avoid it (other than strangling civilization, of course); its just an unavoidable constant.

>>52695366
>the very first module released for 5e has an impossible encounter in the first chapter.
Which one? Phandelver? I remember nothing like that.

File: 9313737_orig.jpg (131KB, 1024x732px) Image search: [Google]

131KB, 1024x732px

>>52697242
>We ain't arguing global warming in the OSR thread

Oh, aren't you naive.

did you seriously think we WOULDN'T argue about global warming as soon as it came up? Did you think we had the inhibition to not tell everyone how much smarter we are than everyone else? Did you think we'd rather talk about OSR games than that?

No, as you can see, the thread disagrees with you.

>>52697335
Kobold Adventures: Rezzic, by Sefeiren

>>52697886
Hm, I thought HotDQ was the first, to the point of being made with lots of stuff that didn't make it into the final game (readiness levels, surprise rounds).

>>52697858
>For example, you can only choke civilization a little while hoping magic will save you.
You have a situation where maybe one way of doing things is cheaper up front but creates problems (and costs) down the road. Doing it a way that's a bit more expensive doesn't really qualify as "choking civilization" in my opinion. When we decided we didn't want little kids, who were paid next to nothing, losing fingers in factories, it raised costs. Is that choking civilization?

Also, on the topic of "magic", a century ago, we didn't have jets, personal computers, satellites, televisions, or cell phones. Two centuries ago, we didn't even have telephones at all, or air planes, cars, or electric light. I doubt many people in the 1800s could have predicted what would be possible today, and if magic is just sufficiently advanced technology, there's every reason to believe we'll have plenty of that in the future. It's just difficult to guess exactly what it will be and what it will be able to do.

>>52698055
For something to be "cheaper up front" there has to be something it can be compared to: there isn't.

>Doing it a way that's a bit more expensive doesn't really qualify as "choking civilization" in my opinion.

Setting money on fire then?

>It's just difficult to guess exactly what it will be and what it will be able to do.

Sure, but the net effect is that we have a secular religion designed to make everyone on the planet feel like a parasite that is destroying the world, with the goal of funneling money into the pockets of a secular priesthood with no end in sight and never actually bringing us closer to eliminating the supposed calamity. You have to take it all on faith; faith that the calamity is coming and faith that these people aren't merely taking you for a spin.

>>52697958
There's no surprise round in 5e? How is it handled? Worth adopting/adapting for OSR?

File: old-school 5e.png (70KB, 1715x375px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 1715x375px

>>52698186
>Worth adopting/adapting for OSR?

See screencap.

>>52698096
>For something to be "cheaper up front" there has to be something it can be compared to: there isn't.
Higher fuel efficiency standards raise costs, but reduce energy usage, which reduces pollution and its effects. Hybrid and electric cars do this as well, and since they're relatively new technologies, there's every reason to believe they'll get better over time. And if you supplant some of your dirtier energy (say coal) with some of your cleaner energy (say solar or wind), that's an improvement too.

And as far as taxing carbon emissions goes, the market is pretty good at making sure the better product wins out, but only when all the costs are figured in. When your technology pollutes, and you're not having to pay for the damages / clean up, then the full cost of that technology is not factored into the market.

>You have to take it all on faith; faith that the calamity is coming and faith that these people aren't merely taking you for a spin.
Temperatures are rising. Scientists who study the phenomenon tell us that we're the primary movers in this trend. I think it requires more blind faith to discount this than to believe the science. And even if it were just a 50 / 50 chance that we could be permanently (permanently from the standpoint of human existence, anyway) altering the environment to our detriment, that's something we should take very seriously. If there were a 50% chance your daughter would eventually get raped if she walked through a certain neighborhood on her way home from work, you'd spare no expense in making sure she didn't have to take that route. Why is this so much less important?

File: Enrage.jpg (48KB, 538x397px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 538x397px

>>52698096
>>52698254
For fuck's sakes will you two SHUT UP already?

There are actual boards for this.

>>52698249
Good list for downgrading 5e but that says nothing about surprise?
I run B/X, I simply dislike how surprise is handled - see upthread.

>>52698292
I saw your post and I also responded to your concerns. Lemme repost that:

>I like giving tactical choice, not taking away agency

There's always times when you can't do anything, for whatever reason, even in the real world. I find it perfectly reasonable to be so stunned by an ambush that you miss a round.

An actual cutscene would be directing the story where the DM, or the game developer, wants it to go. Instead of some goblins just jumping in and rolling a few attacks, a true cutscene in this scenario would be the goblins surprising automatically, then throwing some nets on the players and clubbing them unconscious, succeeding in doing so without any rolls at all.

>>52698309
Thanks anon, missed your reply.

>>52698186
After searching a bit, it seems that it's simply individual surprise. Surprised blokes don't get to act as normal.
I miiight use this? roll d6+wis, you are surprised on 1-2. Idk if it's worth the extra rolling - at least is player-rolling, not DM-rolling.

File: combat sequence.png (26KB, 298x327px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 298x327px

Is the B/X combat sequence implied to be used in most B/X retroclones like Basic Fantasy, LotFP etc? It isn't always spelled out, and if it's changed it kind of changes tactics around a lot.

Gimme a fast & easy, B/X-compliant d100 gem table with prices. The one in Ready Ref Sheets is almost perfect, but inflated af (diamond = 500,000 gp)

>>52698533
It changes even in different editions of Basic (see black box). And yes, it changes the game completely -- in black box losing initiative is advantageous.

File: gems.png (118KB, 505x896px) Image search: [Google]

118KB, 505x896px

>>52698666
Forgotten Realms Adventures.

It's got a bunch of tables for specific gems, too, but you won't really need those.

>>52698666
>Black box
Isn't that BECMI? Anyway, so what you're saying is that you think there's a good chance that retroclones tend to change the combat sequence?

10 usd bounty for the first person who uploads Veins

>>52698745
>Isn't that BECMI?
Yes and no. Holmes it's supposed to be intro for AD&D but it's a game by itself. Black box is like that, for BECMI.
>you think there's a good chance that retroclones tend to change the combat sequence?
Yes?
Plus everybody runs them their own way. Grogs play the BX way (*very* interesting and tactical but a bit slow) and new schoolers tend to use simplified system, without declaration phase or spell interruptions.

>>52699183
>Yes?
I guess I just find it kind of weird. The high lethality, which a lot of the OSR movement loves, can take a pretty big hit if the combat isn't structured correctly.

As someone switching over from newer editions, burning oil and holy water actually seems incredibly useful.

Holy water is 1-8 damage per round for 2 round, you can potentially kill a wight without having to do anything else.

>>52699327
It's a godsend at low levels but those GMs might crack down on you for min-maxing.

>>52697958
> HotDQ
Just checked. The first encounter is with 8 kobolds that ignore the players to pursue a family of commoners.
Then there's d6 kobolds, d4 cultists and a winged kobold. Each time they retreat, they find d6 friendly commoners. Idk about 5e but seems doable even in Basic, far from 'impossible encounter'.

>>52699327
Please reread. Water is only on undead. Oil requires a separate roll to light it (despite whatever your retroclone says), and has a time limit before it drips off. It IS guaranteed to light if you hit it with a torch -- I'd rule that hurling a torch works as hitting unarmored AC.
Oil is more of a defense tool / battlefield control / planned trap / pursue stopper.

Also, reminder than in B/X a tinderbox only starts a fire on a 1/6 chance.

>>52699385
I have to agree.
It also depends on how strict the DM is. I threw holy water at a wight once and the damned vial made it's saving throw... twice. Bounced off it's chest, hit the floor and not a crack in it. The wight proceeded to eat my character thanks to the dice gods completely turning on me.

>>52699408
I know holy water is only for undead, that's why I used the wight as an example.

It's still much, much better than the anemic 1x 2d4 damage against enemies already plagued by HP bloat you get in later editions.

>>52699385
Oil as molotov cocktail is 3.pf fantasy level BS

>>52699444
And this is even worse. Vials are crafted to be destroyed on a hit; first so it damages the dead-uns, second so you can't recover it if you miss.
Dropping a vial by mistake would call for a glass save (if you are a good DM or they bitch a lot), but hurling it should destroy it (unless it's a fearsome Rubber Wight!)

>>52699471
Yeah, liquid death is amazing. But I found that players get the most out of oil when you disallow molotov tactics -- they start lubing up stairs, creating fire traps in dead ends, etc.
Plus, coating weapons in oil prevents rust and coating armor prevents grappling. Def the best item in the equipment list.

>>52699531
>Oil as molotov cocktail is 3.pf fantasy level BS

What about greek fire, though?

>>52699560
I'm glad it's not in the equipment list.
But players could totally find a stash of that shit - I give it a 1/6 chance of exploding in your face each time you use it. And water can't put it out...

>>52696386
>What would make it worthwhile?
It would have to be something that completely altered the remaining years, like being guaranteed not to die except from natural old age (-1), keeping youthful vigor the whole way, being able to live like a king instead of an imperilled graverobber digging around in occult tomes from desperation.

So, unless the demon could accomplish all that shit in twelve hours, I wouldn't do it.

>>52697811
>did someone ever simplify those tables / rewrite them into a clear procedure?
No, that's kind of against the point. The way you use them is that if you need a system, you check the book, or if you see a system you like in the book, you use it.

JG *do* have a house style for rules procedures though, and it definitely *is* "weird, convoluted". Bledsaw was the exact kinda guy you'd expect to run a Middle-Earth game and then have a portal open in that game to his new setting where he'd drawn a map of the main city which detailed every house and street. Tb h a lot of OSR blog output could be described as "retreading JG ground but with less convoluted rules", although in many cases I suspect they don't know it.

>>52699531
>And this is even worse. Vials are crafted to be destroyed on a hit
Eh, don't get judgy. Play the way you like and let others run their games the way they want. Maybe another referee would rule that his setting has neither glassblowing to that fragile standard nor a priesthood that expects you to hurl the holy water at some shit as the standard application, so it comes in heavier flasks or crocks. It's totally fair.

Molotov oil is faggotry, though.

>>52698249
>See screencap.
>>52593859
>>>52594681

>>52700105
>weird, convoluted
True. I simply can't use them on the fly, I wish they were d100 tables with several columns for more detail; something simple.
Right now I only use the Sheets for prep, and still have to look up lots of things, jump pages, re-read descriptions of how to roll because each table (and its nested tables!) have a different procedure (like dXY where X is d6 and Y d10...). Content is amazing, tho.

>a lot of OSR blog output could be described as "retreading JG ground
True.
>in many cases I suspect they don't know it.
Also true.

>>52700274
Just saying. It's like asking for a metal save each time you use your crowbar - you can do it, but I see no reason for it. Unless you're using an improvised/cheap/broken tool, it should work as expected. Specially expensive holy water in special glass containers thrown against a level-draining monster.

File: nwi-768x994.jpg (96KB, 768x994px) Image search: [Google]

96KB, 768x994px

What're your thoughts on the Night Wolf Inn?

The NPC table at the end is pretty cool, and in my mind that alone makes it a worthwhile multiplanar home base, in the style of the venerable World Serpent Inn - but I don't know whether I'd ever run any of the actual adventures related to it, or bring up mystery doors, or any of that shit.

>>52694139
Yeurgh, how hideous. Yoinked for my game, thank you.

What are their basic stats though?

>>52700489
>Right now I only use the Sheets for prep, and still have to look up lots of things, jump pages, re-read descriptions of how to roll because each table (and its nested tables!) have a different procedure (like dXY where X is d6 and Y d10...). Content is amazing, tho.
I'd argue that in some cases, like the system for the City-State's courts of law, it's clear that they were playing in the "small scale wargame" mode, so with a pretty detached/unimmersed perspective where the whole group enjoyed rolling on the tables and seeing the various outcomes together and didn't mind it breaking them out of character, so it didn't matter if it takes a bunch of time and convolutions are part of the fun. We've had some people in /osrg/ who still prefer to play that way.

But yeah, it does make it hard to implement it in a more immersed play style.

>>52700497
Do you have a link?

>>52700923
I have a physical copy. No link.

Maybe someone else can buy it and add it to the trove: it would be worth it, as campaigns and adventure locales go.

I gave away a flying broom. To brand new, 1st level PCs played by newbie players. 1st session of campaign, too.
I swore not to do anything this stupid but it happened, don't ask why. How do I make it an interesting item or take it away from them?

>>52701636
Can't much use it in cramped dark dungeons, now can he?

>>52701636
>don't ask why
Yyyyeeeeah I'm gonna ask. Wat de fug?

>>52701636
Eh, don't worry too much. If they have like 3 HP it'll still be fine, there's not a huge lot of shit they can do to bypass dungeon goblins with one broom. People have done much more gonzo things. The quickstart tables for my planetary romance games contain rayguns and power armor that players can roll up, and I'm doing that on purpose just to see what'll happen.

>>52701636
If the player character using the flying broom is a male, he has horny witches coming after him.

Guys, what're the best future tech weaponry (rayguns et al) rules around?

>>52701646
Actually yes? It's a 10' pole that flies silently, hovers (skips most floor-traps like pits and pressure plates), and gives access to *any* chute/elevator/etc. It also carries 2 people, at fucking high speed at that. Extremely easy to conceal. Also sweeps as a normal broom.

The worst part: my next dungeon has gravity-flipping shenanigams...

>>52701656
Rolled it randomly, stocking Quasqueton. They found it at the end of the small maze, just before the session ended. It just felt right to say "it floats as you hold it". They left with a smile.
At least they don't know any of the above uses (actually a player said "all that for a flying broom?" kek) but they are the right mix of smart and brave, they will find out soon.

>>52701689
True.
One thing that I noticed is that one player was like
>now that we have some gold lets go and shop cool shit and get overpowered
>anon, you already got the best armor and weapon you can buy atm (plate+longsword)
>o-ok
Not sure what to think about it. Kind of worrying.

>>52701759
idk about that, the player is my sister.
I'll make caster-types try to steal it for sure, and maybe give it intelligence so it gives bad advice or something.

>>52701881
>Not sure what to think about it. Kind of worrying.

Eh, that tends to be a thing if they've gotten used to the later-edition mindset. I've got a player or two like that myself.

There's really not much you need to do about it, besides obviously never letting them to buy all the magical shit.

File: tumblr_lcph70Yu9B1qzz9uzo1_1280.jpg (484KB, 1169x640px) Image search: [Google]

484KB, 1169x640px

>>52700660
As Bandits, in leather armour, but with half the usual Int and Wis. They use bows and spears.

>>52701636
Witches "riding brooms" was originally a euphemism for masturbating with a broom.
>How do I make it an interesting
So... make him take the broom up the ass if he wants to fly on it.

>>52701881
>The worst part: my next dungeon has gravity-flipping shenanigams...
And he can crash at high speeds while finding that out.

>>52701881
Soul fuel. The broom needs soul fuel.

>>52701881
>Rolled it randomly, stocking Quasqueton.
>>52701689 here, want to point out this reinforces what I'm saying: you rolled it legit on the random table, that is, the game is *designed to let shit exactly like this happen*, roll with it, have fun, see what happens. If anything, it's the advancement at a predetermined, consistent pace that's a later-edition shitting up of the game.

Balance is mostly important in I.) Not cocking up the basic exploration loop; II.) making sure the players don't feel one *class* is shit or superior. In other words it makes sense to not constantly hand out infinilamps on level 1 and it also makes sense to worry that the Thief is kinda shit, but a specific character scoring good loot isn't a problem in the same way *at all*.

An highly orthodox grog might gnash a bit about you revealing the broom was magical at all instead of just going "there's nothing in this room but some crates and an old broom", but shit, it's not *that* crucial.

>>52701881
>Not sure what to think about it. Kind of worrying.
Like the other guy said, it just means they're used to new-school RPGs and video games. Not an issue, they'll get used to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzuoJVr3IAo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zxi3SClJGw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8CkSw4hVog

>>52701881
>idk about that, the player is my sister.
I hereby rescind >>52701949. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>and maybe give it intelligence so it gives bad advice
Make it the avatar/puppet of a still living witch.
It's not just giving bad advice, it's occasionally furthering an agenda.

If they go out of their way to oppose the witch, the broom starts swatting or dropping them.
If they kill the witch, the broom loses its magic.

If they don't involve themselves with the witch, it just seems like all ill-mannered broom.

File: Bruja de las escobas.jpg (333KB, 1200x672px) Image search: [Google]

333KB, 1200x672px

>>52701636
>I gave away a flying broom.

-The witch wants it back.
-The broom needs rebristling every (d20) uses.
-It's hard as fuck to control unless you're attuned to it, and attunement requires a lot of mashed toads.
-It can support the weight of two people... in robes plus one sword. Not much else.

But overall, let them keep it. It's a problem-solving tool.

>>52701881
Oh yeah, and:
>I'll make caster-types try to steal it for sure, and maybe give it intelligence so it gives bad advice or something.
For the love of Mike, don't do anything like this and don't listen to the others. You're not Jim Raggi, you don't have to shit up every magic item until the players regret finding it and resent you. A flying broom is *plenty* interesting on its own and open up a fuckload of possible interactions, just let it work and be uncomplicated.

Take your gravity-flip dungeon: if you have four players and two can go on the broom at once, that means they can attempt lots of interesting solutions to their weird gravity problems, but they can't just bypass them by all riding the broom. And similarly, if gravity flips while someone's flying the broom he'll still find himself flying upside down, it's not at all unreasonable or unfair to require a saving throw to hold on from sheer surprise the first time it happens, for instance.

Don't make this harder for yourself than it needs to be. If the broom proves consistently hard to manage and overpowered in your game, *then* nerf it once you've all been able to experience that fact.

>>52697242
>>52698267
Why shouldn't we talk about global warming?
It's not like we're gonna run out space for posts amirite?
Anything that starts discussion is fine by me :^)

p.s. visit my blog :^)

>>52702106
This bait is so garbage that it compels me to reply just to tell you how incompetent you are and that you need to fucking git gud. Does that count as some sort of metabait?

File: 1254703486292.jpg (138KB, 1200x800px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 1200x800px

>>52702106
Oh har dee har har.

And I take offense to that. I don't use emoticons.

>>52697933
>No, as you can see, the thread disagrees with you.

This is 4chan. If you had a thread about "Would you prefer to have a cookie, or would you prefer to be shot in the dick", /tg/ would spend half a thread arguing about cookies, and the rest arguing about polearms, waifus, and /pol/itics.

Getting anyone to agree about anything is impossible. Using consensus as a metric is ridiculous.

>>52702025
The broom was presented -exactly- like that. They PC grabbed it, session was ending, I let it slip.

>Not cocking up the basic exploration loop
Do you mean skipping torch count and "STRICT TIME RECORDS"? Because I handwave that a lil bit...

>>52702077
>avatar/puppet of a still living witch
Quasqueton already has a wizard lord, I was planning to use that.
>*creepy child voice* yesss ride me faster, fasster... tonight master will find the camp and stab your tendies while you sssleeeeppp yesss faster, then fry them with a fireball -fasssterrrr... leave the bonfire lit, so master can find us -faster... yesss fasterrr

>>52702097
Thanks, I could use that. And yeah, I plan to limit weight (carry 2 PCs, or one PC+armor). Still a super-useful for scouting silently.
I was thinking that it only works at night/in the dark (witchy tradition).

>>52702104
Hmm yeah, maybe stealing is a bit of a dick move; I was thinking more about using it to drive some NPCs towards the party, not "ha! it was stolen tonight! no, you don't know".

PS - thanks guys, now I feel a lot better about being a crap DM.

>>52702276
>Do you mean skipping torch count and "STRICT TIME RECORDS"? Because I handwave that a lil bit...
I mean doing it to the extent that the gameplay it produces gets cocked up, and I also mean when discussing rules in the eabstract like we do here. As for your own game, you can referee that however you like, but when someone's asking for feedback on his house rules in /osrg/ it's highly relevant to point out to him that his changes will throw a basic gameplay engine out of whack (assuming that's the case, of course).

Plus, let's be honest, if you understand the loop well enough you could just handwave the whole thing and run it by ear, and (crucially) your players would be none the wiser. So handwaving isn't inherently Satan, even if we do recommend against it in the thread because it's mostly advocated by noobs who just think exploration looks finicky and don't want to bother to learn.

>>52697242
>We ain't arguing global warming in the OSR thread.
I agree, there's nothing to really argue about, it's already been settled.

But some people like to roleplay being an ostrich.

>>52697488
>it doesn't need to threaten our very existence as a species to kick us in the teeth, disrupt our lives, and cost us a lot of money.

Besides those who are against spending money shortterm because it will save money in the longterm (because they couldn't care less about the future), there are also those who are against drastic changes in law or regulation because it will affect their own bottom line in a dramatic way.

File: e9d.jpg (16KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 600x600px

>>52702396
>I agree, there's nothing to really argue about

Then why the fuck are you responding to a nine-hour long post? It's like you're just trying to stir some shit.

File: another planets hell.jpg (102KB, 1280x936px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 1280x936px

>>52702396
>because it will affect their own bottom line
Rich moneyed interests dictate policy far more powerfully than scientists who focus mostly on research.

It is literally a retelling of the tragedy of Cassandra, simply in modern times and on a more global scale.

File: zimbabwe-croc-thumb-2.jpg (139KB, 900x530px) Image search: [Google]

139KB, 900x530px

>>52694139
This is great!
May I propose a race ability? They heal 1 hp for every body they eat, and they can stomach as many bodies per day as their level.

>>52702552
That doesn't seem like a whole lot. Either make it 1d4 per body or something like that, or you shouldn't bother at all.

>>52702276
>Still a super-useful for scouting silently.
If you feel that's a concern, it gives everybody nearby goosebumps.
Won't necessarily give you away, but it will spoil and raise the alertness of the guards.
Tell all your PCs that they've got goosebumps, but don't tell them why.
When your sister heads off to scout, mention the goosebumps going away.
And, at /every/ encounter, mention how the NPCs start to get goosebumps.

Or, I dunno, may be the broom just never shuts up. Might even whisper, but never shuts up.
Not really a fan of constant creepy monologuing, but whatever floats your boat.

>>52702552
Pretty sure GLOG already gives loads'a healing for eating meals. :/

File: Night Wolf Inn sample.pdf (6MB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

6MB, 1x1px

>>52700497
I'd like to see the full PDF too. Here's a quick-start intro version.

>>52699531
>Oil as molotov cocktail is 3.pf fantasy level BS

It's a stock D&D thing since OD&D.

I'll agree it's kinda silly, since IRL medieval lamp oil was vegetable oil and you couldn't burn it without a wick, but D&D lamp oil is clearly something else. Also something something high magic field something increased flammability.

>>52703445
No TSR ruleset says so explicitly, and the ones that talk about it specify the rules mentioned upthread (first throw it, then light it before it drips off).

>>52703656
>>52633437
who was in the wrong here

>>52703922
Neither the magic system nor the mighty deeds are from any modern edition I know. I like them both too, and feel they could fit OSR just fine.

I know this is not a osr-specific thing, but-
Any uses for poker dice? The ones with 1, 7, 8, J, Q, K, three sides red three sides black.
Because I was thinking in sanding it and doodling on it with a sharpie...

>>52703977
Depends on how you define "modern" but that magic system is just a rip-off of WHFRP's and both of the Mage games also have a similar system.

>>52704131
>that magic system is just a rip-off of WHFRP's

Not really. WFRP magic has two modes: success, and various scales of failure. DCC has great many scales of success to it too, and allows the sacrifice of ability scores to bring the best results up. Even the weak spells can bring up some really great results, something WFRP's magic doesn't really do.

I've heard of people using dice marked with suits for reaction rolls, but those weren't poker dice.

>>52704028
>Any uses for poker dice?
Aside from the gambling game they're manufactured for? No.

>>52704162
>it's nothing like X
>it actually is X but with more rules added in

Okay, Mr. Grog. Whatever let's you sleep at night Goodman's 3.5 shitbrew while pretending to be an OSR gamer, eh?

>>52704397
A lot of systems - most of the non-D&D ones, in fact - have spell checks, usually with critical failures. Like Savage Worlds, for instance. It's not unique to WFRP, and hardly a rip-off.

>>52704376
Really? I resist to believe it. They are really common and creative math-nerds tinkerer DMs should have found uses for them.
Maybe for a funky encounter roll? For crit damage? Reactions? Maybe hit location?

>>52704747
The pictographs aren't all of the same sort.
It's hard to plan for meaningful outcomes if you don't know whether you'll even have numbers.

You could make them work, but you'd have to go out on a limb to make something that would be served better by mapping the results of a regular d6.

>>52691459
Materials, particularly those that can be crafted to make unique magical items?

Some kind of writ or grant that the player characters can legally use?

A treasure map?

Also don't forget that treasure isn't "just" treasure, it's used for magical purposes in these fantasy worlds. It's not just about having 2,500 gp of gems, it's that you NEED those to make another golem.

>>52705184
>that would
that *wouldn't

How do I make lycanthropes cool af? Specially wererats.

>>52705757
By reading 3 Hearts and 3 Lions. >>52675911
>Specially wererats.
D&D usually does those pretty well.
Just give them deep ties with the local criminal underworld.

>>52705757
>Steal the descriptions of their resistance to normal weapons from Three Hearts and Three Lions
>play up the whole "one or all of these people are actually horrible serial killer monsters"
>look up Ravenloft's Richemulot and maybe Van Richten's Guide to Werebeasts

>>52705757
play Bloodborne

>>52702396
>>52702500
It's fine, lots of people want to roleplay postapocalyptic stuff anyway.

File: t3_5b9d5n.jpg (252KB, 900x1531px) Image search: [Google]

252KB, 900x1531px

>>52702552
>They heal 1 hp for every body they eat

In the GLOG system, a good long lunch (1hr) heals everyone 1d6+level HP. Maybe crocolings always heal fully?

>>52702163
Also, /k/ would argue what caliber of bullet is best for being shot in the dick, followed by jokes about penetration

Is there something out there like "The Book of D&D-able Medieval Woodcuts"?
If so, link me / post pdf

>>52707054
Not to my knowledge, but on the other hand, I don't think there's literally a single early-.modern woodcut that isn't D&D-able.

(Note that there are no *medieval* woodcuts as printing technology is practically the cutoff between the middle ages and modernity, and woodcuts are an artifact of printing. The middle ages had illuminations -- hand-painted)

>>52701934
...Are those lizards fucking?

>>52691757
Who's the artist for that pic?

>>52707691
That's a snake.

File: 1271804004183.jpg (316KB, 573x501px) Image search: [Google]

316KB, 573x501px

>>52707691
>>52707859
Sandra Yagi. Come on guys, reverse image search isn't that hard.
http://artofday.com/wordpress/?p=3261

>>52708004
one person you quoted wanted to know what the lizards were doing, banging i presume. and the other person was asking about an entirely different picture. i couldn't find the artist for the nautilus creature using an image search either

File: picofweek070404[1].jpg (134KB, 571x800px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 571x800px

>>52708262
Your google-fu is weak sauce. I don't know if the the artist has a page, but it's from Guild Wars concept art.
http://www.neoseeker.com/guild-wars-nightfall/concept_art/

Who is your OSR-blogger household god?

I still like Zak's stuff. I find myself reading and rereading his stuff all the time. I think I got most of my OSR mindset from him.

File: 1450137137844.png (141KB, 794x796px) Image search: [Google]

141KB, 794x796px

in beyond the wall are players supposed to add their base attack bonus to damage?

>>52708919
Gus and Bryce are the ones I resonate with the best.

>>52708919
>Who is your OSR-blogger household god?
Rients, t bh

>>52708919

Me.

Just gotta start the blog first.

File: 1465158215326.jpg (439KB, 710x913px) Image search: [Google]

439KB, 710x913px

How do I make paladins less overpowered so that I can let people play one without having crazy high stats?

>>52696458
>pay a year of life
>(at the end)
>Oddly specific.
I mean... how else could it work? What are you gonna do, lose a year of life in the middle?

>>52709619
I love how Beardsley's illustrations made everyone look like an angry, hatchetfaced Greek.

>>52710032
The high stats aren't even about power.
It's just to keep the class "rare" to players (so that each one feels special).
>>52709619
>What are you gonna do, lose a year of life in the middle?
Sure.
You strike the pact on May 7th, xx97. When you finish you handshake, it's suddenly May 7th xx98. The demon will now serve for 12 hours.
Or maybe be a little less mystical about it: After your handshake, you toil for a year. On May 7th, your labor is complete. The demon pays its due.

>>52709619
What system? In many OSR a cleric is what would be a paladin in a modern system (heavy armor, big weapons, and and spell casting).

>>52710032
Could. Demon's are tricksy, maybe you just find happiness in your life, then you vanish for a whole year and where everything changes (lover moves on, your home is sold to someone else, etc).

File: robbie-trevino-ritual-styletest-final-2017-resized.jpg (523KB, 1920x1300px) Image search: [Google]

523KB, 1920x1300px

>>52710032
>I mean... how else could it work? What are you gonna do, lose a year of life in the middle?

Lose a year of life at the beginning: no major effect, but you de-age one year, and your parents may not recognize you

Lose a year of life in the middle: >>52710425
Alternatively: lose all memory of one year of your past. The demon will try to isolate you from your friends or challenge your sense of self by removing memories critical to your identity and position.

Alternatively: one day our of seven, for the next seven years, the demon claims you.

Alternatively: one hour out of 24, for the next 24 years, the demon claims you.

>>52710032
>What are you gonna do, lose a year of life in the middle?
You could just age a year instantly, in the pure physical sense without time passing.

File: piscoloth.gif (61KB, 295x345px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 295x345px

>>52687443
>Go to class
Wizard, always wizard. Generalist 99% of the time. Divination specialists can be pretty fun & op when in the right hands.

File: 1467942088896.jpg (1MB, 1152x1753px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1152x1753px

So you need to bring someone back to life.

In the setting, assume there's no easy way to do this. You can:

-Pray for a miracle (0% base chance of success)
-Call in a major demonic favour. You'll get your friend back but [accidentally kill him later, he's not your friend at all, he's a shattered wreck from his time in Hell, you had to damn yourself completely to get him back, etc.]
-Journey into the underworld and fetch them yourself.

What are some other options? The weirder the better.

>>52709619
Allow lesser fighters, provided they're lawful good as well, to call themselves paladins even though they're not.

File: 1448411027515.jpg (98KB, 802x997px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 802x997px

>>52713859
>What are some other options?
Something, something, mad science.
• Feed bits and pieces of their corpse to a child, until the child becomes a clone. Then hypnotize their old memories into it.
• Use some Frankenstein-tier equipment to bind a Lightning Elemental into their corpse. It will attract other elements to (rudimentarily) animate them.
• Hire a doppelgänger to impersonate them. Nobody needs to know.
• Build up speed for 12 hours, then kidnap them from a parallel universe.
• Pickle their brain, and stick it in a suit of plate rigged up with gears and flywheels.
• Stuff the corpse with drugs, then parade it around while doing things they hated in life. Eventually, the ghost will get so mad that it forgets it's dead. Keep it angry and high, or it might remember.
• Hire a time-travelling illusionist to stage their death.

>>52709619
Use the Cleric or the Fighter to represent Paladin Orders. The Cleric already is meant to represent some sort of holy champion or knight already; AD&D. If you want a more Arthurian Questing Knight type of Paladin, just use the Fighter.

In both cases there's a lot that can be done about position and/or title within the game setting as well rather than something completely reflected in character stats; "paladins" might be of a specific order and organization rather than a class with different mechanics.

File: 8RtBhu9.jpg (44KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 1920x1080px

>>52714113
>Build up speed for 12 hours, then kidnap them from a parallel universe.

Much easier to kidnap them from a mirror universe, using the mirror magic discussed in the last thread. Of course, that leads to... problems.

>Stuff the corpse with drugs, then parade it around while doing things they hated in life. Eventually, the ghost will get so mad that it forgets it's dead. Keep it angry and high, or it might remember

That's a reasonably good plan, actually.

But none of these are really "resurrections". They're all misdirections and tricks. Decent ones, to be sure, but if you want your wife back a lightning elemental in her body isn't going to do the trick.

• Alchemical ressurection. The brain is mostly matter, right? And your memories are stored in the meat. So in theory, all you need to do is fix whatever killed them, and then restart the meat-brain. The soul will follow... or a new one will move in, but the memories will stick.

• There's a ritual you can perform to switch the places of your target dead person and a specially chosen sacrifice. The ritual needs constant maintenance, or the swap will be reversed.

>>52713859
The body is chopped into pieces, none bigger than a foot in any direction.
Cisterns are filled with an obscure corrosive concoction, and the pieces are placed in them.
After a week, the acid has evaporated and what remains is a waxy white powder, in total enough to fit comfortably in both cupped palms.
This is the unique quintessence of the deceased, and from it the body can be reconstituted.
Then it's just a matter of branding and piercing the body to draw the spirit's attention, and summoning devils to threaten his living family, until he's coerced into returning to his body.
The revived man is probably insane and will have to be restrained, lest he beat himself to death on the walls or attack you.
Magically torture and coerce him until he divulges whatever secrets you wanted.
Kill him and feed his body to crocodiles.

>>52714203
>The brain is mostly matter, right? And your memories are stored in the meat.

Nah, your memories were stored in the electrical current that went endlessly through your brain. As you died, the current stopped. The memories are gone.

File: 1283141982630.jpg (113KB, 399x600px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 399x600px

>>52714269
Then why do people who are hit by lightning keep their memories?

And even when I stick these copper rods into a peasant's brain and sent sparks into them (via my cunning cat-and-amber apparatus), the subject /clearly/ remember he did not consent to this experiment.

>>52714262
Ah, essential salts. Very useful trick, that.