/WFG/ Warhammer Fantasy General

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First for Mimics in Warhammer.

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So I've been playing Man O War, and I'm wondering what kind of ships other kinds of greenskins use.

I mean, everything they have is very mechanical and the greenskins shown are your standard Orc and Goblin plus Black Orcs. Their most basic ship has a Rock Lobba, their others have a power drill and giant arms.

So what would Night Goblins, Forest Goblins, and Savage Orcs use?

>>52628124

We already have those leech things don't we?

>>52628224
They might be widespread enough to make use of ships - maybe crude rafts, but why would the Night Goblins leave their caves, or the Forest Goblins their forests? Savage Orcs just don't seem to have the technology to make anything bigger than a raft or perhaps a series of canoes or small sailing ships.

>>52628251
>why would the Night Goblins leave their caves, or the Forest Goblins their forests
The same logic can be applied to all greenskins though.
Expand for plunder, being pushed out of your own territory, or some insanity brought on by a Shaman.

Savage Orcs can tame animals, maybe they ride something?

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>>52628239
Not nefarious enough.

Nothing says "Fuck you, signed The Universe" like literally anything being alive and about to eat you when you are at your most vulnerable.

>>52628224

Savage Orcs would probably have a classical style galley which they just use too get in close and board the enemy.

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>>52628269
Is there a sea monster big enough for them to ride? I remember there being a sort of lizard the Lizardmen could ride, but I haven't seen any fluff on it - just one picture.

And you have a point - there will be reasons why any group of Orcs and Gobbos would try to cross the ocean - but I also don't think they'd really have the ship building knowledge to do it very well, since most would likely live far from any large bodies of water. At best they might ramshackle-ly copy human or dwarven designs if they have one to base their ships off of.

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>>52628332
They kind of ramshackle everything based on humans and dwarfs, but you do have a point.

I suppose you'd need to come up with a new creature, or do like >>52628304 says.

Maybe give Night Goblins or Forest Goblins some kind of submersible? Forest Gobbos could be based on the Diving Bell Spider.

>>52628332

> big enough
> in Warhammer

I'd be shocked if there wasn't.

I can see Goblins being the Orcs air force on the ships. I'll assume they got Doomdivers in the expansion set?

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Probably doesn't mean much, but I'll post this here anyway.

>>52628455
From 2016.

Still means something may be on the horizon, at the very least maybe a boxed game.

>>52628455
It's just trying to sell the license - which they are more than willing to do now. If they can make some money off of a Karl Franz action figure over bringing back the tabletop, they'd probably try.

>>52628807
Why not, I'd probably buy it.

Hey GW, get in touch with NECA.

>>52628807
I want a Guilliman bodypillow, to bask in the glory of my spiritual liege.

>>52628049
One of my problems with Warhammer Fantasy is that you spend ages painting great looking miniatures and organising them in a unit for that unit to be picked apart and removed. I can't be arsed with it.

I like in kings of war how the unit is a representation block.

>>52629314
I also dislike the non standardised unit formations. Its retarded and promotes power gaming opposed to unit movement and generalship. I again prefer KOW regarding this.

>>52629355
What do you mean by non standardised unit formations? I too enjoy kings of war but can't seem to find the full rule book anywhere, however I prefer the customisation that is possible on war hammer, if only there were some way to combine the two.
Out of curiosity, did anyone play triumph and treachery in 8e, how was it? Anyone got the rules. In pdf?

>>52629564
For example :

Troop 10 models 5x2
Regiment 20 models 5x4
Horde 40 models 10x4
Legion 60 models10x6

Instead in Warhammer you get then random numbers wide and random numbers long. What that means is instead of having 4 units of 20 to manoeuvre and surround an enemy people use powergaming to simply lump them all together into a big kill fuck unit of 80 so they do not lose an advantage of dice. It's sad and diminishes the game.

>>52629628

20 skaven slaves are useless

80 skaven slaves are a competent unit that still not so great.

Big units are usually tarpits, not deathstars, because big units can be evaded relatively easily, are expecially vulnerable to magic and are very susceptible to flanking.

If your opponents fields 50 saurus warriors or chaos chosen in a single units, simply laugh at them and run circles, he won't have enough points to efficiently control the battlefield

>>52629690
In a game without objectives, battlefield control is fucking useless, in order to win the game, you will have to fight that massive deathblock eventually, skirmishers wont do nearly enough damage in the amount of turns available and artillery is effectively immobile so you will either have to abandon it to death, or get in the way and get torn apart in melee.

Skaven slaves are the worst example to use, because they ARE extremely more effective in hordes because of their morale bonuses and the fact that they are so dirt cheap that you can also buy a ton of other stuff. And then there is the fact that weight of attacks is supreme in WHFB, with a mass of S3 attacks being better than a small number of S4+ attacks

>>52630650

Slaves are worse in hordes than in normal ranks because they'll lose their rank bonus extremely fast, thus degrading their already shit LD, and good luck if they ever lose steadfast by being outranked.

mass of s3 attacks are better only if the receiving target has both:

1) t3. From t4 onward you lose a 16.5% effectiveness to wound
2) Either no armor or 1+ armor save. Every point loses you an additional 16.5%

So, say, 30 attacks at str3 vs 15 attacks at str 4, against a T3, no armor target:

50% of str3 wound, this leads to 15 wounds. 66% of str4 wound, this leads to 10 wounds.

You have a 33% difference in wounds inflicted with a 50% difference in number of hits. If your target has even light armor and nothing else, the number becomes 13.5 for str3 and 10 for str4, reducing the proportion even more.

As you can see, yes, if you have double the number of attacks, you might have an advantage. 5-6 attacks more? nearly useless.

>>52630650

Also, battlefield control is extremely effective in WHFB. Siege machines are worth around 100 points each one. A deathstar is often worth five to seven times that withouth the heroes in it.

If your opponent deathstar marches to your warmachine(s), you're gaining points. You're effectively making impossible for that gargantuan point sink to earn it's value back, while your machines can snipe at other targets.

You do not need to kill their deathstar to win the game, you need to earn more points than your opponent.

Skirmisher are not for killing big units, they're for monster and warmachine hunting (expecially with poisoned attacks).

You use cavalry, expecially resilient one, to shred deathstars, or you use those convenient lores that are designed to cripple such units.

A 13th, or Dwellers, or Final Transmutation on a 40 man deathstar with multiple heroes inside? Congrats, you've won the game.

A deathstar losing turns to a 30 point redirector placed in front of it? You're getting points, he's getting token prizes and getting out of position.

Skavenslaves are a good example precisely because of what you said: they're designed to be bought in big blocks, there's no powergaming implied in them. The game is not "diminished" by it, it's something they were created to do. Same with zombies or any massive unit.

Deathstar hordes only work in certain armies (most notably Delves) and against specific armies (such as VC, which have a very poor magic phase with regard to melting units, and no ranged phase to speak of).

>>52629690
Which is the problem with WHFB.

>>52630888
Any decently built VC army can just block a deathstar with some spirit hosts or bats.

>>52631004

The problem with WHFB is that big killy units often bite in the ass the owner?

>>52631004
How is that a problem?

>>52631012

Depends on the deathstar, magical ones will shred thorugh them like they're not even there.

Bats are awesome redirectors, and they're pretty much a must have against any kind of deathstar

>>52628224
Savage Orks would probably use crude rafts, paddle extremely fast with their hands and try to board enemy ships head first.

>>52631012
>>52631033
Anything that can't be delayed by a spirit host can be delayed by 50 zombies.

>>52631100
>Orks
GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH
GO BACK TO 40K OR SHADOWRUN OR WHERE EVER THE HELL YOU CAME FROM

>>52631033
It doesn't matter how dead killy they are, spirit hosts placed slightly behind eachother directly in front of your unit will force you to charge the first, then as you inevitably win the first combat due to ranks and banners, overrun into the second. Congrats, your 500+ point block is stuck there for a turn at almost zero cost.

Meanwhile he is raising shit everywhere and probably cursing the fuck out of your trapped unit.

>>52631125

Why just 50 when you can throw 80 at them?

>>52631160

If he charges and overruns in his turn, chances are that in your combat phase he'll kill and overrun (or test LD to restrain from overruning) those ghosts too, which means that in his next turn he'll be free to move and/ or charge, potentially gaining ground

>>52631236

(however if his deathstar has no magic attacks, a flank charge from a spirit host will mean a stuck deathstar for at least 2 full turns)

>>52631236
Just throwing this out as a wild idea, have more ghosts?

It's not like they are expensive, you can hold them up for as long as you want, with them moving about an inch a turn. How much would you pay for an item that just stops an enemy unit in its tracks?

Even worse if you can manage to get a flank in with some raised zombies or more spooky ghosts, nothing more humiliating than running from ghosts.

>>52631272

It's certainly doable, but it's rather hard to pull off.

Zombies are easier, and while they might cost you a bit more, they're far more infuriating to plow through and are not so dependant on positioning. A zombie flank charge can potentially mean you'll win the first round of combat, or lose so few models that the unit itself will last at least a whole turn more

What are some good damage dealers for a no-wight no-vampire VC list?

>>52631015
>>52631024
I do not know exactly. I just have grievance with the style of play.

>>52631751
You would prefer a big romp where players smash thr biggest units they can field into eachother?

>>52631843
No. As I said. More standardised unit formations so the game is actually played with a variety of different units opposed to a big kill fuck dump lumb in the middle and misc random units. More like KoW.

are there any dirt-cheap peasant/civilian minis?

>>52628455
probably to make WHFB video games

>>52631922
>make us more shekels goy
>oh and you can't mod your games.

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Anyone has any stories on how they discovered the hobby?

I first saw WHFB over a bit longer than 20 years back now. Visited a friend from out of town with my mom, never really knew him at all.
Anyway, so the guy wasn't even home when we got there, so I had to wait in his room, and I saw this... well this toy soldier (a dark elf warrior), standing on his desk. Been playing RPG for a better part of my youth I got interested when he showed up and told me about this magical world where each player gathers an army to march on to the fields of battle. He showed me his painted stuff, and some army books as well, and let me tell you guys. Living in an age without Internet, and the best (as far as entertainment goes) was the NES, if you where lucky enough to have friends that owned one.
We already thought we had it good because we played RPG´s, but this was an entirely new league of hobby.
Needless to say, my jaw dropped and my brain exploded!
Coming home, I jumped the phone and rang my closest friend, and he got just as excited as I was! Luring him with me the following week, we where both introduced to a fully painted Lizardmen army, and my 13´ish year old body just could comprehend that much awesomeness! We went home and jumped the phone to our current GM, and he was like "meh...".....

A bit later of "fuck that guy" arguments, we go the starter set for ... 3ed I think it was... not really sure, It had brets and lizardmen in it at least. Showed up to our GM´s house and watched the magic, as his jaw hit the floor just as soundly as ours had!

Now, many years later, Im the only guy left in our little group that still takes the hobby a bit serious. But we still meet and chat about the good´ol times. Man Id like to re-live those feelings again, in lack of a better word, it was fucking magic in the air!

>>52631965
>playing mods for medieval 2 total war
>big into third age total war.
>some guy had made a mod that ported reikland from call of warhammer into Third age.
shit was golden.

Alright guys, rate my list:

(2000)
Heinrich Kemmler (350)

Krell (205)

283 Skeletons w/ Full Command (1445)

>>52632101
you need at least 3 units for a legal army

other than that - don't forget to hide in a bulding

>>52632124
Are Lords and Heroes not units?

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My homebrew again. I've added rules for runes which appear to only use the simplest rules for armor without accounting for using the more complicated rules for armor.

>>52632435
>Leather Armor is a myth
pure leather armor is a myth, but leather was used to reinforce a wide variety of things, among them clothes/armor.

Gloves/Boots are almost exclusively made of Leather.

>>52631965
Found some mention of it on the internet, watched some battles on YouTube, then my brother, a friend and I went to the FLGS and bought our first units, cold one knights for me, empire great swords for my brother and tomb King warriors for my friend. Came back a bit later and bought island of blood. Started playing soon after.

>>52631905
Reaper Bones.

>>52632309
Only if by themselves.
But you don't want to do that.

>>52629314
>>52629355

This wasn't such a big problem in 3rd to 6th edition because the units were still only 20 to 30 guys... then 8th added horde and steadfast and it was just a race for the biggest unit.

Rate my Mono-Nurgle list:
Sorcerer Lord - Lore of Death - Lvl 4 Wiz, MoN, Flaming Breath, Dispell Scroll, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Potion of Speed, Palanquin of Nurgle.

Festus the Leechlord

Exalted Hero - BSB, MoN, Helm of Many Eyes, Dawnstone, Halberd, Poisonous Slime, Barded Chaos Steed.

2x 5 Forsaken

20x Chaos Warriors, Full Command, Gleaming Pennant, Halberds, MoN.

2x Gorebeast Chariot - MoN.

5x Chaos Knights, Full Command, Ensorcelled Weapons, MoN.

The Sorc Lord and Festus joins the unit of Chaos Warriors (who are formed 5 Warriors wide as to allow for Festus to hide in the second rank) and the BSB joins the Chaos Knights.

What do you guys think? Any comments, tips, help and/or critique are highly welcome!

>>52633173
Forgot to add that the total point cost comes to 1992.

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>>52631442

Vargheist, Terrorgheist and Black Knights in some scenarios but usually people use them as a Vampire delivery system.

Why no Vampire?

>>52633173

Be very very wary of any army that has a powerful magic phase, as they can and will ruin your day. With only 20 chaos warrior they can easily hold back their biggest spell and pester them with various magic missiles. Skaven expecially tend to do that since they got stupid amounts of extra dices and mages.

Dwarves (an any artillery-heavy lists) can and will ruin your day, as they can both kill your chariots and obliterate your warriors.

Also, very important, it's unlikely you'll have a magic phase in the first turn, as you'll be out of range for most of death's spell.

>>52632972
Alright, I dropped the Skeleton unit to 267 and grabbed 2 minimum sized wolf units.

>>52632698

See, this is why Warhammer was cool. Every faction had a niche, if that was 40K you probably would have all bought Space Marines.

>>52631965

Heroquest was what got me into Warhammer. It was well before my time but my brother found a copy on the internet and bought it to relive the good old days and inside there was a 1992 advert for Games Workshop, even with the old as fuck paints schemes I was hooked as soon as I looked at it.

>>52633281
>>52633173

Yeah I would maybe think about dropping a chariot or a unit of forsaken and aim towards two units of 17 warriors with a hero in each making them 6 x 3, but that's juts my opinion. Whatever you do, the opening salvo from some armies will be painful.

>>52633281
Thanks for the input. What would your suggestions be regarding changes in the list?

In regards to the reach of Death Lore I tend to manage fine if I go for the the bigger versions in the firts couple of rounds.

>>52633405
Seems like a prudent thing to do, my only gripe would be that it would leave Festus vulnerable as his survivablility is quite atrocious, but I could always replace him with generic sorcerer, or even try my luck with him in the front rank. After all his capability to make the foe drink their doom is always fun.
The second gorebeast chariot, aswell as the second forsaken unit is pretty much included due to my lack of imagination, as I failed to come up with anything to replace them with that would necessitate some fiddling with other units.

>>52631965
It's not a particularly interesting story, but year 5 teacher in primary school was heavily into scale modelling of shit like planes, boats, tanks and all that shit. As an 11 year old kid I thought it was the coolest thing ever and picked it up myself.

The city I lived in was bisected by a river and people north of the river (which was where the only Games Workshop was) tended to have little to with people south of the river, so I never came across Warhammer until high school. I did see an ad for LOTR on TV once which I thought looked cool now that I think about it, but nothing ever came of that. I went to high school in the CBD and became mates with a lot of guys from the north. I went over to one guy's house and saw his 40k armies (I think it was just the Battle for Macragge starter set plus a few more marines) and took an interest in it, since it was like the scale modelling I was already doing. He lent me his rulebook and Space Marine codex, which I think was the 5th edition one and it had just come out, and I instantly got hooked on the universe.

I spent the next three or four years constantly painting, stripping and repainting some Tau, Witch Hunter and Dark Angel models I had collected. My friends and I would talk about nothing but 40k when at school.

I would have been about 16 when me and my mates decided to branch out into Fantasy. I always found Dracula cool, so I bought their army book and immediately fell in love with it. I still liked 40k, but Fantasy really scratched that itch for me, it took all the things I liked about fantasy settings in books I'd read and mashed it all together in a single universe.

Towards the end of year 11 I fell out of love with wargaming thanks to increasing school work. I later felt the urge to go back to it two or three years into uni, but I fucking despised where GW had taken 40k so I decided to focus only on Fantasy. Age of Sigmar happened a few months later

>>52633486

Well forsaken and gorebeasts are both good. I'm not sure what to do about Festus, you could stick them both in the same unit but it's a lot of points.

>>52633431

Lore of Death is very strong, but it's best on a mobile hero, so for example you could switch your bsb and general

>>52633556

Pretty similar. Finished uni a year after AoS hit. So I just fucked it off and started Fantasy.

>>52633260
I want to do a list that represents an independant necromancer, who has raised a small army and is building himself a little fief in the Drakwald.

>>52633648
That's not a too shabby idea! Will have to consider it.

>>52633579
Yeah the huge point cost of my warrior unit is something I've been burned on a couple of times.

>>52631965

My Uncle was into miniatures a bit and had left a stack of old White Dwarfs and some 6mm historical figures at my grandparents house which I used to read and play with when I was little.

>>52633342

One can only wonder what will impress kids of tomorrow though. My soon to be 4 year old son is already using my HTC Vive, it will be hard for this already slim hobby to survive tomorrow I reckon.

>>52634090
why no wights? They are just another controlled undead (most of the time) just a bit more able to react independently than skelies or zombies

>>52634560
Wights are the ancient dead primarily, and I want him to be using mostly fresh corpses.

>>52631965
a boy me and my brother were friends with was painting tomb kangz one day we went to see him as kids
Many questions were asked and after many talks got our dad to take us to the only GW in the country
I got some 40k orks and my brother got a daemon prince and khorne berzerkers
Painted them over at the boy's place using his paints and glue

I was really young at the time so mine looked like a mess, boy helped my brother paint his prince (or did it for him) so that looks pretty good
Many years later i got some fantasy orcs and more years from that elves

>>52634648
There's a spell for raising wights in the WHFRP rulebook that explicitly says that it can only be used to raise the corpses of those with an advanced career so there is nothing stopping Wights from being created from the fresh corpses of those sent to stop him.

>>52633173
Remade my army-list (1999p):

Chaos Sorcerer Lord - Lore of Death - Lvl 4 Wiz, Flaming Breath, Dispell Scroll, Helm of Discord, Talisman of Preservation, MoN, Barded Chaos Steed.

Festus the Leechlord.

Exalted Hero - BSB - Scaled Skin, Dawnstone, Dragonhelm, Sword of Striking, MoN.

5x Forsaken.

16x Warriors - Full Command, MoN, Halberds.

18x Warriors - Full Command, MoN, Shields.

Gorebeast Chariot - MoN.

5x Chaos Knights - Full Command, MoN, Enscorcelled Weapons.

My BSB and Festus will join the Warriors with Halberds and my Sorc Lord will join the Chaos Knights.

>>52634774
I don't know what models I would use for skeletal empire elites.

>>52634984
If I were you I'd throw a unit of Grave Guards into a box of Empire Greatswords. Seems like it could make cool kitbash.

>>52634835
so what part do the forsaken play
Bullet sponge?

>>52635361
Redirecters/skirmish-chasers/flankers/potiental glass-cannons.

My experience with forsaken are that they are useful for various purposes. People tend to not pay too much attention to them which, in combination with their fast speed for infantry, make them useful flankers. If you get lucky they can also dish out an enormous amount of pain which is always handy. They are also cheap enough (atleast in regard to other chaos units) that you won't cry too much if they get destroyed early on.
Their purpose on the battlefield is usually dependent on what enemy I face and the general layout of the battlefield.

>>52635117
Sounds veey expensive. I'm not to fond of Grave Guard anyways, I'll use a terrorgheist as my damage dealer, or maybe a Varghulf.

>>52635597
I'm always wary of flanking darts, I've witnessed at an adjacent table to my own where a Marauder cav dart got routed turn 1 by archers, it fell back through a 30 block of Warriors which promptly failed their panic and the re-roll and ran straight off the table.

The look on that poor fucker's face was heartbreaking especially when the laughter of those watching drew in everyone within earshot to have a look.

I always try to make it so that my flanking units can reliably last at least 1 turn even under fire.

Seeing as people are rating army list, what do you think of mine? 1250 point, going up against empire. My opponent usually likes to field a big block of spearman/ halberdiers +- 40 strong supported by an arch lector, cannon, warrior priests and some empire knights & 20 great swords on the flanks. How do you think this will fair?
Supreme Sorceress Level 4
Dispel Scroll
Talisman of Preservation( Lore of Shadows)
Core
5 Dark Riders Repeater xbows
Shields
Standard Bearer
5 Dark Riders Repeater xbows
Shields
Standard Bearer
13 Dark Shards Shields
Banner of Swiftness; Stanadard Bearer Musician
Special
8 Cold One Knights :
Full command; Razor Standard ;Sword Of Might
War Hydra:
Fire Breath; Fire Spears

>>52636173
Heh, that sure is a lol-worthy scenario.

>>52631905
Gripping beast dark age spearmen.

>>52631965
>be 12, 14 years ago
>friend tells me about Warhammer
>we buy a bataillon each, him brets, me empire
>expand our armies
>play a lot at the local gw store
>play a lot against each other
>both win painting contest
>one year late we fight side to side in storm of chaos
Bros before chaos

>>52636798

This is really what I would dream of doing as a kid. Sadly it was just me and my two friends having at it with our never finished armies on a friends moms kitchen table, placing VHS cassettes as scatter terrain and plants as forest terrain.

Years go by, now Im the only guy actually engaging the hobby as a whole. I play less than I would want, but at least I play painted with serious hobbyists that really wants the games to come alive with fully painted terrain sets, and armies!

>>52636173
Same thing happened in one of my games with a friend of mine. I shot his dog screen, panicked them, and they fled through his big knights block with both his wizard and his BSB. They fled off the table turn one before he had even moved.

We re-racked and played another game, after much laughted. He hasn't painted those dogs to this day

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Did the empire ever go through a roman empire phase or something similar? i find it hard to believe they transitioned from manly barbarians to Pajama wearing halbediers in just one generation, and then conquered most of the old world as said pajama men without any gunpowder weapons or wizards. but every source on the ancient empire seems to have them very similar to modern empire except without guns.

>>52637380
What exactly do you mean by "a roman empire phase"?

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>>52637380
>they transitioned from manly barbarians to Pajama wearing halbediers in just one generation, and then conquered most of the old world as said pajama men without any gunpowder weapons or wizards.
They never went through a roman empire phase, and they never conquered most of the old world. They conquered barely anything at all, the vast majority of the territory was alreaddy part during the foundation of the empire, and only some small parts were gained in the Border Princedoms, but lost again to various causes.

And Sigmars Time is closer to the Dark Middle Ages than Pre Roman Europe. They went through a early and high Medieval phase, which is where the Skeleton Warriors armor and equipment is drawn form, the Bretonnians are stuck at the High to Late Medieval Tech level the Empire went through aswell, and Sylvania was stuck in the Late Medieval phase when Vlad took over, the VC Armors being reminiscent of that Era.

It's hard to pinpoint it with Dates since they aren't all that consistent, but it's clearly implied that the Empire went through the Motions of the HRE.

>>52637380
Well you have to assume their culture and modes of dress changed over time broadly in line with real history, and ignore the odd outlier like Mark of Chaos that gives the Empire volley guns in the time of Magnus the Pious. Though you can probably justify a slow rate of technological advancement by the fact that they're getting most of it from the dwarves, who are categorically opposed to innovation.

Any Roman styling would come from Tilea, who never became a political power to match the Roman Empire but nonetheless seem to have transmitted some of their tech, language and religion to the north. At least in the RPG there's a language called Classical that academic characters know and it's hard to think of it as anything but Latin.

>>52637380
>>52637607
One of the only significant things we know about Empire history is that there was a good three centuries where it didn't exist, and the second reik formed after the great Chaos incursion is as yet younger than the period of interregnum. It probably doesn't have much in common with the Empire of Sigmar at all, except roughly contiguous borders.

>>52637713
the Empire as a coherent Political Entity didn't exist, but it's Counties didn't change in the last thousand years or so.

but it is rather fickle compared to the other Nations in the Setting, the Empire is barely even two generations old by Elven Standards, and a few more for Dwarfs.

Compare that to Nehekara which lasted a tad longer than that without breaking apart completely and you see why nobody really puts much trust in it.

>>52634367

I think people will always love miniatures and wargaming but you're probably right that the boom years of the 80's and 90's are behind it.

Wargaming is a growing market, but what you're seeing is companies broadening the horizon to get the computer generation involved, so simple rules and immediate gratification. Which does immediately put me off but it does feel like it's getting watered down to nothing but expensive toys.

>>52637713
It's weird to think what would be abnormally long in our world - even the nearly 1500 years of Bretonnias existence is stretching the bounds of what seems possible - is young by Elven or Dwarven standards.

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>>52634835

I prefer it to the other list.

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Warmonger Miniatures (Fantasy arm of Foundry) has release some new (old) Dwarfs. Pretty good for anyone wanting Imperial Dwarfs.

https://warmongerminiatures.myshopify.com/collections/mighty-dwarves-of-legend/products/copy-of-dbs01-veterans-pre-order

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>>52637380
The Empire of Sigmar's time seems to be roughly equivalent to the Dark Ages/Migration Era (Which makes Sigmar pretty much Charlemagne).

So at some point they probably went through their own Middle Ages as the bayeux tapestry style art in the 6th edition rulebook seems to suggest before emerging as an early renaissance culture during the Age of Three Emperors (The Empire during Mordheim seems about comparable to the 'modern' Empire.)

>>52636230

Firstly, in future I would try to format it more like the other anon's so it's easier to read.

All those units are good but I just wonder what's going to take the hit from his halberds? They could mince the Cold One Knights, they'll only have a 3+. I guess you're a bit limited in what you can do with 1200 points.

>>52637380

Well Sigmar was around 2500 years before the current Empire, so it was hardly a transition over one generation.

The Empire are northern Germanic, they were the barbarian tribes that the Roman Empire fought against.

>>52638234
I miss the times when Orcs were considered the main antagonist to Humans, and Chaos were cunts on the fringe of civilisation being the antagonist to Kislev.

>>52638051
Considering miniature wargaming has a double digit growth as a market it's safer to say GW is losing ground hard

>>52638345

I said it was a growing market in my second sentence but would you call X-Wing and AoS traditional wargames? Seems that rather than it becoming more popular companies are just watering it down to make it palatable to a broader audience.

>>52636955
To be honest nowadays I don't see him much anymore, and my characters feel a bit lonely far from their poncy rivals.

>>52638234
So I imagine you'd have:

>Vague Dark Ages before Sigmar, with the various tribes
>the Carolingian period, with the early foundations of the Empire and limited expansion
>the Ottonian Rennissance until about 1000 IC, when you get the Black Plague and fragmentation of the Empire
>The Gothic period formed slowly during these fragmented times
>the Renaissance, with the foundation of the Colleges of Magic and the relative peace after the Great War against Chaos

So it would loosely follow medieval history, though we have to remember a lot of these periods were probably slowed down due to wars and infighting. We can assume the transition to the 'Renaissance' took a lot longer than in real history, since there were less periods of peace and migrations of scholars from abroad, though there was probably some periods of pieces between the claimants to the Emperor's position.

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>>52638435

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>>52638482
so where do Wight Kings fit in?

This one in particular seems to be a deceased Vampire, but you get plenty of Wight Kings, and Grave Guards with similar epoche armor apparently from a time when there weren't any kings in the Empire.

>>52639286
I'd imagine either part of the 'Dark Ages,' or even somewhere before that. They don't have to be kings, even petty ones that might be more common - they could just be chieftains or great warriors. They seem to have mostly worked in bronze rather than iron, so that suggests they might be the equivalent to the pre-Germanic Gauls.

>>52639286
Aren't most of the wight kings from the time before the empire ?

>>52639333
>>52639341
might also be possible that the Reanimated Wight Kings were touched up by Sylvanian Smiths with more modern Armor.

Another possibility would be that the Wight Kings aren't actually Kings, but "Kings of Wights" as in exceptionally powerful Wight and not a former King, but instead Count or Baron in the Empire of more recent times.

>>52639423
Yes it can also be. In fact most powerful reanimated undead were called wight kings in the 6th ed army book if I remember well.

How would I build a list around Konrad? He can't be the general, so should I grab a m. necromancer or something?

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>>52640065
He can't be? Why not? I know he had a model.

If he can't, using a master necromancer would probably best. It'd fit with the lore anyway, since he was never good at magic.

>>52639286

Arms and armour that had been left out and exposed to the elements for a any length of time would be useless.

That is newly made armour in the style that the Vampire Counts are accustomed to.

>>52640178
Konrad isn't a Wizard, so he can't be a vampire general. That said, his leadership is so low you wouldn't want him to be one.

>>52640065

Yeah probably a Master Necromancer. However, Konrad is a bit squishy (well, as far as that applies for vampires) so you may want to look at double vamp lists for some ideas.

With stupidity he needs quite a bit of baby sitting.

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>>52638489

Is that your army?

Pretty good desu.

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AVERT YOUR GAZE!
DO NOT PRESUME TO TURN SUCH REPUSLIVE FACES IN MY DIRECTION!

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Any Dark Elf generals in here?

What's peoples opinions on Spearmen vs. Corsairs?

I'm working on a list and it looks like they can both be decent anvils in core, I can only really afford to sperge out on one though since I'll need 30+ and they're expensive as fuck.

So I'm extremely new to Warhammer Fantasy. I'm interested in playing Chaos Dwarfs, specifically the ones on Forgeworld. Legion of Azgorh, I think is the name. I can find the AoS rules for them but I cannot seem to figure out where the rules are for Fantasy. Any help, friends?

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>>52642897

Their rules are in 'Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos', a currently OOP book.

You can find it in the links in the OP. Real shame as it was a beautiful books.

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>>52642897
Their rules are in Tamurkhan The Throne of Chaos. You can find a PDF of it pretty easy anon. They are towards the back of the book though if I remember right.

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>>52642850
I am a bit biased here, because I love corsairs, so I would say them. Also double repeater bolt throwers are cool as fuck.

>>52642963
>>52642968

Thank both of you! Very much appreciated.

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>>52642989

Well, for the sake of 2 more points on spearmen you're getting 1+ armour save and another attack, which seems worth it to me.

Plus they do look great, probably some of the best models they ever made.

>>52643149
Yep, one of their best models fore sure. Make sure you get Lokhir Fellheart though

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>>52632101
YOU NEVER PUT ALL YOUR SKELETONS IN ONE BASKET ANON
NEVER GO FULL CALCIUM

>>52643149
>>52642989
I've always loved the capes on these guys, they capture the perfect amount of dynamism without stepping into the ridiculous territory.

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>>52643185

I'll try anon, doesn't look like they sell him anymore so I'll have to hunt down a 2nd hand one.

>>52643229
Fuck you're right, I didn't notice. You can probably find one on ebay for cheap.

Good luck finding a medal one though

>>52643261
Metal*

>>52643261

Holy fucking Christ.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Games-Workshop-Warhammer-Dark-Elves-Elf-Lokhir-Fellheart-Metal-Figure-New-Mint-/262900710664?hash=item3d361a7d08:g:nH0AAOSwax5YzaYD

>>52643279
What the... Scalpers man I swear...

If you are willing to, you could always buy him from a re caster honestly.

>>52643454

I might as well buy this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WARHAMMER-FANTASY-AGE-OF-SIGMAR-DARK-ELF-ARMY-/142339623249?hash=item21241a4951:g:hOoAAOSw4YdYyS7t

For an extra £80 I'm getting an entire army with him.

Daily reminder that Malekith is cucked by his mother on a daily basis.

>>52643482
Honestly that is an amazing deal, I would take it anon.

>>52643545
>>52643482
Memes aside, that's a pretty sweet deal.

Why is magic so poorly implemented in T9A? Everybody gets access to a fraction of the lores that they had in WHFB, most of the lores are nerfed, casters have lower casting bonuses, AND they kept the fucktarded winds of magic and random spell generation mechanics.

Is the rest of the game as bad?

>>52643574
>>52643597

Yeah I'm so tempted, the only thing holding me back (bro) is that I've got a big bill going out this month and I'm not too fussed about the 50 spear elves.

Also, why would you cut everything off the frame and put them in bags? Seems quite therapeutic but a total waste of time.

>>52643960
You could just sell off the spearmen yourself after you buy it. Could probably make most of the money back that way honestly.

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>>52643601

All of those decisions, except the last one, were made in the name of balance.

Who enjoys having an entire unit wiped out by one spell anyway? Nearly everyone agreed magic needed taming.

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>when you find old as fuck Bretonnian characters on the Lexicanum

>>52643995
Another anon here. Honestly I found their magic nerfs to be too much. They could have simply toned down the offending spells as to make them less bullshit.

>>52642116
It is, a good chunk of it it over 10 years old.

>>52644393

well it's in 1.3 so still a long way to go, chances are they're still fiddling with it.

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How different would the warhammer world have been if there was no nagash? What kind of impact would the living nehekarans have had on how the rest of history played out? Would the empire ever have formed? And would they have ever succeeded in bringing back settra without true necromancy?

Would you adventure with someone who was a loyal companion who, in a time of grave danger, grabbed a chunk of warpstone and threw it as hard as they could?

Would you still adventure with them after they start to mutate?

>>52643995
>Who enjoys having an entire unit wiped out by one spell anyway? Nearly everyone agreed magic needed taming.
Individual spells needed reigning in, but they utterly failed to address any of the other magic concerns.

>>52644664
So, basically it's shit, it's been shit since they started, but maybe they'll stop being a pack of retards in the future.

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Does anyone have a link to a pdf of Warpstone magazine issue 25? I can't find it in the OP files and the ones I haven't checked don't work.

When are the next WHFB releases scheduled for?

>>52644690
It's hard to say, since we aren't sure how strong Nehekara would have stayed as merely a living society. It could be assumed that, united, they'd rival the Empire as a vast southern cousin, and play Persia to Greece...or maybe they would have fractured without undeath and loss of their glorious lives to unite them all.

But aside from divine intervention like Giles le Breton, the rules seem pretty clear: the dead stay dead, and don't get to come back. Without necromancy, that is.

>>52644746
I'd like to read that story, especially if it was with a Knight-Errant and another adventurer (or squire) that he'd come to treat as the only companion that would remain true to him. Which one would be mutated would be fun to play with.

>>52644690
>would the empire have formed
The empire would be part of nehekara, they already conquered parts of those lands thousands of years before sigmar. and if sigmar ever was born he would just be a very exceptional warrior like Nekaph was.

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>>52644896
The nehekarans were raiding as far away as Cathay and Lustria, and were strong enough to challenge lizard men and dwarfholds back before the war of the beard. The empire is utterly laughable compared to Nehekara at the height of its power, and this was before they really started using animated constructs in battle. Without nagash fucking everything up they would have likely been the single most powerful centralized faction in the setting

>>52645019
But they can't just expand forever - if Nagash didn't fuck things up on a huge degree, someone else would fuck things up to a lesser degree. Maybe the constant expansion that only put its gold into things of death and war would finally take its toll. Maybe some of the Priest Kings that had traveled farther out would decide they deserved independence from the rulers back home rather than any sort of tribute, or rebellions would rise up over rulers denied glory or the desert nomads wishing their independence once again. Maybe Cathay would get up and smack them.

>>52644809
Personally I'm pretty hyped by the upcoming dwarf berserk lord from Avatar of War.

>>52638102
Lövely!

Also: Now that's a pepe I can get behind!

Any of you fuckers got a dwarf flame cannon for sale?

>>52644298
I know a place named St-Just-Malmont and it would be a pretty good place for an hermit knight.

>>52642278
I fucking love this smug smile on his face.
Artist did a good job.

>>52628049
is there a list of rec' books? skaven related preferably.

not sure if they exist and trying to find out more information

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>Vampire who set up a hospital in western Sylvania to treat the peasantry after a major plague
>also has shady experiments going on, involving Skaven, Rat-Ogres and finding the secret of true undeath(Reanimating the dead without magic)
>sends expeditions into Mordheim and under Mordheim to capture living specimen
>on the surface he seems like a benevolent philanthrop
>when you discover the first layer of what's going on he seems like a crazy frankenstein type
>the final revelation is that he's actually curing all kinds of diseases and only experiments on volunteers or the moribund
>in the finale a peasant mob storms the hospital
>the twist is they came to stop the players from killing the Doctor
>turns out they had an idea what he was doing but the tradeoff is worth it
>in the end it turns out he lost his family to a plague and tried to bring them back

massively inspired by Bloodborne, yee or nay? I have a further idea that it could also be taken into the direction of Ratcatchers later on, inspired by the Chalice Dungeons.

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Some of the files for WHFB novels don't seem to work.

Does anyone have the Siege of Naggarond short story? I'd really like to read it.

>>52643960

Tbh put in a cheeky 90£ offer then haggle him down to £20 off asking price.

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Would Warpstone work on Superman?

>>52643960
Probably storage space. In baggies you can bin all the sprue and fit 2 boxes of spearmen in a smallish padded envelope.

How balanced is Ninth Age? Online, I see lots of Lizardmen players lamenting that Temple Guard and Saurus Warriors suck, but will I still be able to win with a core of Temple Guard+Slann supported by Saurus?

>>52647043

Yeah this

I've got way too much still on sprue and it clogs up my house. I should get round to bagging it all at some point.

>>52647080

Let go and play KoW, a game that's actually designed well.

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>>52646072
>Trying to capture perfection in art

KOW is garbage... its more dice dependent and random than WHFB ever was.

>>52642850
You're essentially paying 2 ppm more for +1 as and either +1 A or 2 12 inch iirc BS4 ranged attacks. Tradeoff being fighting in an extra rank.

I used a big block of spearmen with a death hag on cauldron and it tore apart a unit of crypt horrors in one combat.

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>>52643279
>Tfw got him many years ago in metal

It sure sucks having to hunt this shit down these days considering a lot of it isn't even made anymore. I have a huge Dark Elf army but I never grew my High Elves or Vampire Counts until it was too late. Now a lot of the High Elf range is gone and I can't find anything for a decent price anymore.

I guess it makes it more satisfying when you finally do find what you're after though.

>>52647474
Only thing that bothers me is that, in being a Norscan prince, Sigvald doesn't subscribe neither to the Norscan nor Chaos aesthetics. But he's not doing his own things either. He looks like he was designed over a imperial Knight or perhaps a bretonnian.

>>52646345
This sounds amazing. Bloodborne is my favorite souls game as well.
>>52646762
What if Warpstone is Kryptonite?

>>52647679
>I guess it makes it more satisfying when you finally do find what you're after though.

I know the feeling. It took me two years to find one of the Eisenhorn models from the short-ran Inquisitor game that wasn't going for more than $100. Still haven't painted him yet, but it felt amazing to snipe it from folk on Ebay.

I'm still looking for a decently priced Settra and Khalida.

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>>52648069
I don't collect Tomb Kings but I noticed pretty much anything from their range is scalped to hell. Not a surprise considering their range died, but still.

One of my local stores has some regular skelemen (and for 20% off too since they're trying to clear out old WHFB stuff) and I'm debating on whether I should grab it just in case. For some stupid reason I've taken slight interest in the Tomb Kings. Good thing that popped up after they're long gone.

>>52648121
Well, I think it's probably even a good buy even if you don't end up liking them - you could always resell them at a good price.

>>52644803
If you're still around: https://mega.nz/#F!h7J1ADrb!cP-srB8rDqYRmSscl4Z1AA

>>52648933
Excellent. Thank you anon.

>>52646379

I'm working on a new archive, I can post that story for you.

>>52644809

I've er... got some bad news for you anon...

I presume it's mostly the old metal tomb king stuff that's going for a high price?

Because almost all the plastic kits they ever had were fucking awful and never once did the artwork justice.

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>>52645265

The new Elf hero that's coming looks great, AoW is definitely the stylistic successor of Warhammer.

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>>52652553
I liked the old skeletons, I could convert those very nicely indeed.

The plastic TG were a bit crappy and the plastic horsemen were ok, not the worst sculpts around.

>>52647708

Yeah he does look a bit out of place, he was a Sigmarine before it was cool (which was never).

>>52652553

The first phase of plastic kits were showing their age by 2014 but the later plastics were some great models, the new Tomb Guard in particular.

>>52652681
AoW? Avatars of War?

>>52652989

Yeah, the guy who sculpts for them is ex-GW.

>>52631965
It was about 20 years ago for me, I was at my families cabin and my older cousin from Montreal was there too. He brought up a bunch of his miniatures (Crimson Fists Space Marines) and a ton of White Dwarf magazines. I saw this diorama that someone had made for Games Day that was a Lizardmen army defending a fortress against a bunch of Orcs, and I fell in love with it. My dad is a pilot and he got my first starter set (Brets vs Lizardmen just like yours) from a GW store in England as an 8th birthday present.
Straight up, Warhammer Fantasy defined my childhood. It was literally my first exposure to fantasy as a genre and it defined it for me to this day. Straight up, I read the Hobbit before I got into Warhammer and I thought the elves were Santa's helper elves and the dwarfs were of the Snow White variety.

>>52653080
With both Kings of War and Avatars of War, it's getting a bit silly keeping it all separate. That said, yeah, it doesn't look like things are going anywhere. AoS might turn out to be a blessing in disguise, since it spread potential competitors far and wide and gave them bases to grow from in formats that GW has historically neglected because they hate money.

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>>52631965
I remember back in the late 90's, a freshly minted teenager, wandering around the mall, and came across one of those stores that had a bit of everything - board games, movies, books, RPG stuff, etc. On the wall they had one of the 40k box sets, the Black Templar/DEldar one. I loved building model aircraft, saw the models on the back, and bought it on the spot.

The rulebook was entrancing - the fantastic artwork, the tone of the fluff, the model pics. I got sucked in right away. At the time, we still had a store in the area that sold it, so I jumped right in. Started collecting everything and anything I liked the look of, including Imperial Guard tanks, blood angel command squads, the newly-released Land Raider Crusader - you get the gist. Inquisitor was released a bit later, and I fell into that one too.

GW took a lot of my money in those days, but they were good times. Haven't played in ages, and watching their prices skyrocket has put paid to any money I might have spent on them these days, but I still love both 40k and fantasy.

Just wondering why dont you guys consider end times the same universe?

Is it because its so badly written?

I just started reading Thanquol and I it hurts my brain that this is acceptable. Like lol lets just crash the moon into the old world. Im sure this wont be cheap and awful and ruin everything.

It all seems such a joke.

>>52654456
>Is it because its so badly written?
>It all seems such a joke.
Basically that's it.

>>52646762
Warpstone is magic.

Magic is his weakness.

So
>>52647872
It may as well be.

>>52654456
Badly written, shitcanned many favorite characters and factions.

>>52654938

I'm reading through it and for some reason the skaven are just ignored even as they destroy the world.

People are just like 'lol what r skaven??' as they get eaten alive.

They have the most amount of plot armour of any faction and to no reason why they have it in the first place.

Its a disgrace.

Where do you guys actually play WHFB? From what I can tell theres not a single person in the country to who still plays it, not at any of the FLGS and definately not at the local GW (not because theyre not allowed, just nobody wants to, even though we all have armies). AoS just completely took over and I feel like Im beating a dead horse bringing my square based orc instead of my round based lizardmen into town for games.

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Has anyone ever made/utilized Solkan daemons? Do they even exist in fluff?

>>52655060
Technically Skaven have always been able to overrun the world, as well as Beastmen.

The plot armor is Horned Rat out of nowhere deus ex machina-ing away their established permanent weakness, which is infighting. This asspull at the last second removes the very rule that the fiction was founded on.

Its like if Superman suddenly lost his kryptonite weakness because Rao decided "NOW is the time for this to matter." Or more relatedly Lolth suddenly decided there will be no more backstabbing ever again and Drow take over the entire Underdark and surface. Or Khorne deciding to use wizards.

>>52655306
We never got enough fluff on the Chaos Gods of Law for it to matter.

If anyone did, it was the early days of 3e and those armies are long gone.

It would be a neat idea though.

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So suppose half my army is Savage Orcs and Forest Goblins, the other half is Goblins dressed as Empire soldiers and Orks, and pic related is General atop an HG Wells time machine proxying a boss on a spider.

How great/stupid is this idea?

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>>52655403
Wonder if these would work, actually

>>52655691
Actually, yeah.

>>52655468
>How great/stupid is this idea?
Very. In equal amounts.
But since it's O&G I'd be totally cool with that.

>>52654456
it took everything that made WFB good and threw it in the trash. Then it took the most superficial traits of every character and faction and turned them up to 11.

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>>52652453
Thanks, I'd really appreciate it.

>>52654456
Because people are so used to the safe space era that anything they don't like can be considered non canon. I hated many of the choices they made in end times as much as the next guy, but I'm not such a delusional cuck that I'm gonna act like it never happened or that it's not canon because "muh feelings." It's a shit story but it's still the same universe.

>>52655372
Nigga what? It's been part of the fluff for years that the horned rat wanted them to unite for the great uprising, that's one part of the whole thing that wasn't an asspull. And even with that decree the skaven were still actively backstabbing each other, they were just focused more on the enemy than engaging in open civil war. Clan pestilence went off and freelanced against the lizard men instead of waiting for aid and sending aid to their allies, queek and ikit claw both had plans to kill each other after taking out the dwarfs. far more skaven died in the infighting that took place after the conquest of tilea and estalia than in the actual war, and many more skaven died to tilean warriors than needed because clan skyre and moulder purposefully let unsavory warlord clans go in without heavy weapon support so they wouldn't be competition in the future. The only skaven it armor was how the fuck they got so many stormfiends in that short amount of time, and how they managed to make a device strong enough to accidentally blow up the moon.

Also sick of people thinking the skaven ever intended to crash the moon into the world or onto the lizard men. They just wanted to bring it closer so it's influence was stronger, and later they wanted more warpstone to rain down to power their industry.

>>52657221
It's not that it's not the same universe, it's just not really what anyone wants from the universe. They think WFB, they think pre-End Times.

It's sort of like the new 40k thing going on - I haven't heard much complaint about it, but if there were, I imagine people would be trying to describe the whole thing as not being the same universe - it's not the 40k they know and like. You can probably find similar arguments for sucky game sequels or crappy books in a series.

>>52653746

GW is too big for it's own boots now, it doesn't care about the war-gaming minnows of traditional fantasy and historical, which is probably for the best.

Avatars of War now supports the 9th Age over his own rules, so he makes all his models with that system in mind.

>>52654456

It's not liked here because it's contrived bullshit that, instead of developing an interesting narrative, was written with the sole purpose of tying up all the loose ends they could remember and setting the stage for the Age of Skubmar.

>>52657261
I think of endtimes as a shitty sequel. It's the same universe, and it takes place literally months after most of the main action in the current date. but if someone wants to talk about warhammer fantasy I can assume they're talking about it in the "current" setting right before the endtimes kicks off, and any point before that.

>>52655242

Where I live the 9th Age has taken off, we have regular tournaments here at the local club. This is in the UK, a lot of people prefer to play in a club once a week rather than go to a shop. But I imagine a lot of Fantasy players don't go to GW's anymore... you know since they kind of dumped us for the newer model.

I can't blame people for not rushing back to 8th, but try another edition or KoW.

>>52655468

He wouldn't even need a time machine, shit falls through the Warp all the time.

>>52657366
Warhammer: Cataclysm.

>>52657261

I'm leaning this way on 40K 7th, I'm thinking of just capping my lore here and not bothering to read much of the new stuff. We'll see though, early days.

>>52657221

Actually, we have an alternative setting in the Storm of Chaos. Since GW has never come out and said which is cannon it totally depends which you prefer.

Checkmate Sigmarless heathens.

>>52657555

canon*

and trips of truth.

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how big are standard imperial regiments? And how about knightly orders? If we go by real world Holy Roman Empire numbers, regiments should be 3000 men each, and I've always assumed knightly orders to be around 200-1000 each, depending on the order. Does this seem about right?

>inb4 there are as many elves as the plot requires

>>52657555
In storm of chaos we don't even know if Valten was the real deal or not, and he gets the shit kicked out of him by archaon and then killed offscreen by skaven.

In the ET timeline that leads into the canon supported age of sigmar (your feeling on this have absolutely no sway) Valten is confirmed the herald of sigmar, sigmar himself actually shows up to kick ass, and becomes a major god in the next setting.

It is in fact you who is the sigmarless heathen

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>>52657787

> We don't even know if Valten is the heir of Sigmar.
> He gets his shit pushed in by Chaos and Skaven.

That's answered that question then.

Turns out he wasn't.

>>52657705

It's never touched upon as far as I know, 2000 to 3000 sounds about right to me but landsknechts didn't really have uniform formations, they had as many men as they could get or their employer could pay for.

In Heirs of Sigmar it goes into a lot of detail on the number of regiments in each garrison of every town in the Empire but no exact figures on their composition.

Some villages might only have a detachment of 100.

>>52657787
Total Warhammer timeline is also supported, and selling better.

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>>52658434
>landsknechts
They share the same aesthetic but Imperial armies are mostly state funded full time professional troops, not mercenaries like actual landsknechts. Mercenary companies are definitely common and militia troops could be raised, but for the most part it was a standing army. With how focused their culture is in war, I'd say the empires military structure is closer to the roman imperial army than anything. The actual imperial army of the HRE, at its height, did have regiments of 3000, while roman legions were composed of 5000 men. Given the exaggerated sizes of battles (80k dark elves in a single, albeit important watchtower garrison) in warhammer I think it's safe to go with roman imperial army sizes (450,000 at its height) and then scale up from there.

>>52658590
>video game selling better than a tabletop wargame in the current year
Well color me surprised, here I thought table top war gaming was the dominant form of entertainment since it's so accessible and economical

>never actually touched a model in my life and only play the video games

>>52658723

Each state operates differently, Averland does have a very mercenary reliant army and they're renowned for being sell swords. Many of the 'Imperial regiments' are raised by private benefactors. It just depends on the size and location I suppose, Reikland and Altdorf may have several full regiments of 3000 men but small villages in Ostland could have a local regiments of 30 state troops to patrol the roads for Chaos raids. Plus many Elector Counts would probably rather pocket their states taxes then 'waste' it on the army.

Can anything be done to inspire the dwarfs to learn the virtue of forgiveness?

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>>52658755
Still a better argument for continuity.

>>52658982
Dwarfs are "forgiving", they just can't forgive.

In the comics Grimnir causes two clans to be wiped out because they forgave each other after forgetting the grudge that started their war. They could have just taxed each other, or their kings could have taken unpleasant nicknames, or any number of other and minir interpretations of revenge and justice, but "forgiving" is heretical.

>>52659006
Total war warhammer is a floating timeline completely at the whim of whoever is playing the game. You can literally conquer the world as the dwarfs according to that timeline.

The endtimes timeline that leads into age of sigmar is the GW supported canon timeline for warhammer, it's really not that hard to grasp. Our opinions have absolutely nothing to do with it

>>52659168
>Total war warhammer is a floating timeline completely at the whim of whoever is playing the game.

So what the story of Warhammer was until 7e.

>The endtimes timeline that leads into age of sigmar is the GW supported canon timeline for warhammer, it's really not that hard to grasp.
According to almost every supplement until Storm, there is no such thing as "canon".

>Our opinions have absolutely nothing to do with it
According to GW, money matters. My opinion is expressed through money, as is all of ours.

Total Warhammer is outselling Games Workshop in general, let alone just AoS.

Therefor TWW is canon.

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>>52659699

> What did he mean by this?

>>52659768
Twas on'na the ratmen!

>>52659729
>being this deluded
People like you are the reason "fantacucks" are now a joke and our whole fan base is seen as triggered man babby grongards, good going faggot

>>52658590
Ignoring the selling better because duh it is, it's a video game, it is a licensed game that is canon.

>>52659168
Right. So if someone doesn't like the End Times > AoS timeline, then they could just play in another timeline, does it really matter? As long as everyone at the table uses the same rules, your army could be fluffed as being led by Archaon's nipple rings and it wouldn't fucking matter.

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>>52659968

Who is more triggered?

The triggered or the man who triggered him?

>>52659968

He's just rustling him, this canon cuck has been shilling on here and the AoS thread for the past week at least.

>>52660049
Yes, never argued against that, it's just when people try to be delusional and say it's separate universes or that any endtimes discussion belongs in the AoS thread.
I personally like to fluff my games in a setting where Archaon gets his ass kicked at the border of Kislev and the resurgent empire leads a joint crusade with the Bretonnians deep into the shadowlands to destabilize the now fractured legions of chaos

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>>52631965
>be 13
>family trip on my way to uncles
>stop in at a turnpike rest-stop
>go into the souvenir shop
>see the first malus darkblade novel
>think the cover looks badass
fell in love with it
good thing the last novel i waited years for ruined everything i loved!

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>the empire, bretonnia and tilea quickly put aside their differences and mustered a massive crusade to BTFO an empire of shitskins
>never thought about doing this against sylvannia, the Norse tribes, the badlands, the tomb kings, the beast men, the forest goblins, the skaven, or literally any other threat far worse than Araby
What did they mean by this? They could throw hundreds of thousands of knights at shitskins with djinn and magic carpets but not any of the infinitely worse factions in the setting?

>>52660419

Really this just shows how shit Araby are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRbhLtjOiRc

>>52660419
They did it to help out Estalia, simple as that. Notice that most everyone who took part were Bretonnian knights and Empire knights - rich people with strong ideas about chivalry and probably more than ready to take the chance to act in defense of another and reap the benefits.

All that other stuff though? Either you can't focus a crusade on something so spread out or hard to attack, or it's something that is seen contained or solved, like Sylvania. It's not, we know it's not, but the Empire defeated them the last two times they tried anything, and they're not about to appeal to Bretonnia for help they don't think they need.

>>52660020
Therefor the higher selling property should be canon.

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>>52660564
>hey bretonnia, those chaos north men just wiped out a city in kislev and subjected them to unimaginable horror, wanna go kick the shit out of them like we did to Araby a thousand years ago?

It's that simple, really. And it doesn't really matter who the threat is, a force of AT LEAST 200k knights is going to fuck up just about anyone except an endtimes level chaos, skaven or green skin invasion. If they directed that force into the shadowlands (like Karl frank did with a much smaller force) the tribes there would get absolutely wrecked. Same goes for the badlands

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>>52660321
COUNTERPOINT!

Every edition until 7e declared the "official" canon as merely something to base your own canon on, and not actually a concrete story. Every scenario presented multiple other versions, many character backstories ended or began with a statement saying that it is only a possible version of the character, and like whether the Headless Horseman was real or Brom Bones in a costume the end of many stories threw into doubt if it actually happened at all.

FURTHERMORE Warhammer is a multiverse with alternate dimensions, divergant timelines, and the complete multiverse that implies, making all possibilities simultaneously canon anyway!

THEREFOR all continuities are canon! Age of Sigmar and End Times are merely a suggestion of continuity, not an actual rule! THUS there is no canon, merely a current recommended model!

IF ITS SHIT, THEN DON'T BUY IT!

I'm looking to start playing a character & story heavy warhammer campaign. Does anyone know any groups I could start talking to? It'd be my first time, but I love the lore, especially where the tau and necrons are concerned.

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>>52660343
I feel you there. After reading the Malus Darkblade books he became my absolute favorite Warhammer character from either 40K or Fantasy.

His tenacity, boundless hatred, ambition and hints of honor and camaraderie with his fellow Druchii made me really enjoy his personality, and I've read through his books more times than I can remember. I sometimes just pick them up and find passages I like. I've read them enough that I pretty much know where any event in the books is.

But sadly Deathblade killed him off. After I read that book I fully came to realize just how shitty the End Times thing was and what GW had planned.

>>52660813
What you basically said was "it's ok to use your own headcanon if you want" and then a bunch more words. You brought nothing new into the argument that we haven't all agreed upon already.

>>52660790

The Brets aren't that stupid, without Chaos keeping the Empire in check they'd dominate the Old World.

Bretonnia would have little to gain and a lot to loose.

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>>52660816

>>52660854

I'm sure this has come up before but how do people pronounce Druchii?

I assume it's like drew-k-eye?

>>52660982
There's an article on it, but I've always pronounced it drew-chee. I guess the double "ii" is supposed to be pronounced ee-eye though, so it might be drew-chee-eye.

I don't know.

>>52660945
alright, what did I do wrong this time?

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>>52661059

You didn't say please.

>>52660887
Bretonnians don't think that far ahead, mate, and that goes completely against their chivalrous code to even give chaos the chance of being strong enough to invade them directly overland

>>52660887
I don't think any of the good factions consider Chaos a check on things. Bretonnia and the Empire have a rivalry and can't quite see eye to eye, but they'd rather fight against a common enemy than let the other get badly mauled - and it's more in their interest to uphold Kislev and get another extra buffer than to risk more Norscans.

Main reason they weren't involved in the Great War against Chaos? No one thought to involve them, in-universe or out. And if you have all the good factions always fighting together against any foe, it turns into a saturday morning cartoon.

>>52660816
Yeah, Dwarfs and TK have great potential for campaigns.

>>52660982
Drew-kai
they pronounce it in the Warhammer Mark of Chaos games

>>52660882
It brings up the point that for most of Warhammer history, there has only been headcanon.

When GW suddenly decided they wanted concrete lore to appease spergs, they were unable to actually change that rule. Like a show with negative continuity suddenly deciding to do an arc, you can't do it. Twelve seasons of random Spongebob in and you can't suddenly become story-driven.

AoS and ET can't be canon because there is no canon.

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>>52661101
please my dear, precious anons

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>>52661346
Anon, you brought up 40k stuff. This is WFB.

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>>52661346

> Hooded Man 1 says nothing. CIA Knight pulls out a broadsword.

The flight plan I just filed with the Bretonnian Aviation Society lists me, my men, and Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you.

> CIA Knight opens the cargo door. Chivalrous Knight hangs Hooded Man 1 out into the howling wind.

> CIA Knight shouts above the wind.

FIRST ONE TO TALK GETS TO STAY ON MY AIRCRAFT! (Cocks weapon.)

>>52661271
The skaven aren't actually real, fish men are the primary threat in the setting and Marius leitdorf went mad after seeing the full horror of the underwater civilization, Aenarion was just a myth and really it was the ogres who stopped chaos, Sigmar was actually a woman and empire soldiers ascend to become stormcast eternals once they die. Prove me wrong, oh wait, you cant, there is no canon

>>52661396
>Places fists on hips in a cocky pose.
"You're more patient than the last one!"

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>>52661417
>fish men are the primary threat in the setting and Marius leitdorf went mad after seeing the full horror of the underwater civilization,
Wait a minute. I know that was supposed to be a joke, but, if we just put on these tin foil hats for a bit...

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>>52661479
>Rats? Rats, you can expect to find the sewers. They cling to humanity's heels and huddle at the base of their works. But what goes down there...that's older than rats. Far, far older and more evil.

can we please stop responding to end times bait for now?

anyone above 14 agrees it's shit, there's no point to discussing if it's canon or not.

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>>52661551
Nothing but salt madness, lad! Next you'll be telling me there's a civilization of reptiles across the sea

>>52661571

This.

I see that canoncuck in the AoS thread all the time. It's nothing but bait. ET is shit, end of.

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>>52661749
If you hate AoS and endtimes so much, why are you in the AoS thread? Go there to bait whenever these threads are as dead as the game?

>>52661749
>>52661571
>anything I don't like is bait
My only intention is for people to stop acting like their opinions mean anything to an established setting, that is all

>>52661872
Many of us frequent both threads, it's not as uncommon as you think. I like both settings even though I don't play, I just like the lore

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>>52661667
They're real, I tell you! I seen them out past the moors. I were so scared, I didn't even go to the tavern!

>>52661378
>anon
he's a fucking namefag

>>52661346
Why are you namefagging, newfriend?

looking at all the gribblies in this thread at this point by now surely the Empire should have invented napalm deployed by griffons

>be stirland halberdier on patrol
>things with more than two legs start coming out of the river stir
>buglesman bugles in broken arrow broken arrow
>all available elector counts drop in for danger-close
>itaintme.mp4 starts playing

>>52662025
there was a rocket in one of wfrp 1 adventures

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>>52661667
So what's the verdict on fishmen? Are they chaos? Some sort of weird offshoot of lizardmen from that sunken city? A race from before the old ines? There's enough evidence for their existence sprinkled throughout the fluff to not dismiss them as a joke

>>52662116
No verdict, since there's so little information on them. That being said, I find it unlikely that they're Chaos. Chaos would've made use of them a long time ago, if so.

>>52660816
When you say Warhammer Campaign, are you talking Fantasy Battles or Roleplay? Because there's a general RP discord (albeit a bit inactive at the moment, with only 1-2 games running) where practically everyone is familiar with or currently playing WFRP2: https://discord.gg/euQTW

>when you long for the next WFRP session but also fear it because you are out of fate points

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>>52662838
Quick, do something heroic so that the GM awards you fate points or breaks your neck.

>>52662116
I think of them as pre-old ones civilisation.

>>52662997

Every time i try to do something heroic i fail my agility test and land on my head, this time i will probably break my neck for real.

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>>52661667
>half fish half kraken
Maybe they were skavens.

I can't find the mention where it says Halflings are guaranteed entry into the university of Altdorf, but I know I've seen it before. Anyone that can point me in the right direction?

>>52664383

I've seen it as well but can't remember where, said something about them not having to pay for tuition at least due to some old law.

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>>52664383
>>52664463

What i found on the student career in career compendium page 205.

>>52664495
I know I've seen it elsewhere too, but that suffices for now, thanks a lot, Anon.

Is it just me, or was the End Times totally fine until Khaine? Nagash and Glottkin were pretty fun.

>>52665286
I wasn't much a fan of End Times from the start, but then I was also a Tomb Kings fan (who had their teeth kicked in before being rolled up into VC's) and am rather luke-warm towards non-Strigoi / -Necrarch Vampires (the first of which got nothing, the latter the death of its big named character) so when that happened I was already prone to be biased. I also didn't particularly mind SoC's ending, if only because it offered a chance (one regrettably not taken) for WHFB to be less STATUS QUO GRIM DARKIAN.

Honestly the best way to change WHFB around would have been to go back about a decade in how fluff was handled (back when Special Characters straight-up came from various eras instead of some nebulous wishy-washy ambiguous timeline) and push the calendar forward by another century or so to justify new waves of characters, units, the works.

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>>52648121
Tomb Kings have great models and better lore (6th Edition, WHFRPG, and Time of Legends era at least: 8th Edition's I'd say is mostly just passable), so I can't fault you there. There's a great deal one can do with them as well ranging from: Dedication to specific Nehekharan deities, the peculiarities of multiple dynasties sharing (or fighting over) the same territories they ruled over in life, the differences between the various city-states, Numas and its mingling populations of the Living and the Dead…


>>52652689
Glad to see another who preferred the Metal Tomb Guard to the plastic. I realize the plastic ones had a much better kit from a modeling perspective, but the relative and practical simplicity the metal TG had wooed me similar in a similar fashion to the old metal Incubi in 40K.

Did the anon who bought the Mantic Tomb King-style range ever post?

>>52666837
>those snake skull statues
ever since reading that Lovecraft story set in egypt beneath the pyramids, I am wondering just what the hell the Liche Priests were up to all those thousands of years their kings were dormant.

>>52667576
I believe the statues in that image are (currently inanimate) Sepulchral Stalkers, which would put them under the Necrotect's domain.

That said, I can't imagine the day-to-day regime for the average Liche Priest post-Nagash is particularly different from that of lesser clergy in other faiths (maintenance of the building and grounds, preservation of documents, theological studies). There's mummified servants / slaves in the lore who could handle simple tasks, but that aged paint isn't going to replace itself and somebody needs to translate the documents lifted from the tomb robbers' pack animals.

Also, on this note, I imagine Numas gets quite the surplus of trade since their demographic of the living would make them uniquely suited for the replacement and crafting of metal arms / armor. While not embalmed, Liche Priests are still dried sacks of bone that'd go up like tinder if they attempted to work a forge and there's no examples (to my knowledge) of non-mummified artisans retaining their trade in Undeath. This is likely something the Liche Priests would be responsible for organizing / overseeing / managing too, the logistical aspects while their sovereign slumbers.

How Alith Anar lived 5000 years without rejuvenation?

>>52667974
He bathes in blood like the Witch Elves do.

>>52668037
He doesn't have cauldron.

>>52667942
This is the reason I love Tomb Kings so much - they're not all mindless undead, or they're not all hate-machines demanding the death of the living. A lot of these Tomb Kings and Princes just want a nice clean empire to futz around in, and I'm sure there's the odd Prince who likes racing chariots around, painting, or what have you. They're essentially a functioning society of dead people, and while I'm sure the foot soldiers and slaves aren't thinking much, the higher-ups ARE, and that's a really neat thing.

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>>52668400
This is why 8th Edition's fluff was such a disappointment for me. In 6th, 7th, ToL, WHFRPG, and so-on, the fact that Tomb Kings are Undead was acknowledged but not THE defining aspect about them. They worked the land to the point of bringing back life to small parts of the desert. They held court, and not solely for matters of war. They felt like a polity that happened to be Undead, not Undead who existed in enough numbers to be a polity.

But to drag myself back to the subject of mental capacity, there's the small bit in the attached image (the Skeletons having enough initiative and awareness and whatnot to prod a sleeping person awake, wait for them to get dressed, then escort them to the King) and these lines from Lure of the Liche Lord:
>Unlike Skeletons, Skeleton Soldiers are intelligent. They are smart enough not only to follow complex orders but also to act on their own initiative when necessary. This is because they were enchanted using a more extensive version of the Mortuary Cult process specifically to retain their intelligence and martial prowess.
>If the Skeleton Soldiers are a sign of Karitamen’s expected discipline and skill of his warriors, Tomb Guards are un-living proof. The elite warriors of his time, the Tomb Guards retain much of their memories and are unswervingly loyal to their master. Chosen from the greatest of his mortal servants, they gladly gave their lives to protect the Death Scarab on his journey into the Underworld.

>>52661872

I only go to see what the state of the game is in and to ask when the 2nd edition of the Generals Handbook might be out.

I still hold hope that AoS might turn into a half decent skirmish game eventually.

>>52667429

He posted some images of them built, he's painting them now apparently.

>>52668728
>>52667429
Yeah, still painting them. I'm also waiting on the replacement shields I ordered, which should get here today.

I also fucked up the bone on the first model, so I'm a little butthurt. Seriously, how do you fuck up bone?

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This is from the promotional material for the release of WFRP 1e
I thought it was a nice counterpoint to the End Times.

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>>52668816

>>52667974
was too mad to die

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> TFW you'll never get to range out from your mighty southern Empire and crush the living.

Why even live... again...

>>52667974
Vampirism.

>>52669542
So he is elven White Dwarf?

>>52669656
>mfw just won an auction for more than 80 TK shields and bits to make archers for $20

God bless Ebay, I can now make these Mantic skellies even better.

>>52669656
Nice

I miss my TK but 8th really fucked them over and I sold pretty much all my fantasy after the End Times debacle

>>52669773

You should have hung onto them anon, you'd get that satisfaction in 20 years time of walking into a GW to play a game of Age of Archaon 2.5. The redshirt would say 'hey no non-GW models in here' and you can smugly explain you're greatness to him.

>>52668772
What kind of colour scheme are you doing?

>>52669955
Doing a copper/bronze armor, red cloth, and for the shields, not sure yet. Leaning towards teal, but the jade I saw in the first edition of the rulebook is looking better by the minute.

>>52669850
Nah, fuck GW and I don't have a group to play with anyway, everyone moved to Warmachine/Hordes and in the new group I joined people are even playing Age of Sigmar.


I'll stick to the RPG and if I do take up gaming again I'm going third party and converting the shit out of things again.

Is it weird how much I like the idea of Necrotects? Something about undead architects with a hatred for the living who ruin their works seems cool.

How long do elves live for in WHFB?

Are they technically immortal like Tolkien's?

>>52670911
Yes, it is weird. Mainly because Necrotects had a good idea in theory (Undead artisans / engineers) but in practice are bogged down by "SLAVES SLAVES SLAVES I LOVE EXPLOITING SLAVES BTW FUCK Y'ALL WE'RE NARCISSISTS TO A (WO)MAN AND DID I MENTION I GET HARD / WET TO THE IDEA OF MY LABORERS DYING ON MY PROJECTS?" and have about no defining traits to them as written besides:
1) They build shit gud
2) Did I mention they're all narcissistic?

Their premise is sound (moderately unique even, as far as undead go), but their execution is shit.

>>52671030
My understanding is that they aren't technically immortal (barring certain bloodlines or odd effects going on), but that they're long enough lived that it's generally a moot point. Lizardmen are immortal, I think (in the very least I can't recall any of them dying from old age and a couple have been fighting since the time the Gates collapsed), but the Elves are just stupidly long lived to the point that they may as well be to Dwarves what Dwarves are to Humans when it comes to longevity (see: For humans that grudge had to do with their grandfather's grandmother's uncle and so isn't their concern, for Dwarves that was their mother's honor as a youth that they slighted; For Dwarves that grudge has gone back since the days of their great grandfather, for Elves they remember being the one who sparked it as a childhood prank).

Why the hell do anyone sell their old armies?

File: Necrotect_8th_Edition_Colour_Illustration.jpg (80KB, 564x850px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 564x850px

>>52671039
Well that kind of sucks. I thought it was cool how they were an artisan sort of unit, but still useful in warfare - sort of like the engineers of the dwarves and Empire - but they also actually wielded a little magic. And it helps explain all the giant statues and stuff.

Do they still use living laborers? You'd think skeletons wouldn't need to be whipped to death to build shit anymore.

>>52671156
Lack of space, need money, no longer interested in hobby/army.

>>52671156
Dosh. GW is unique in that its price per model tends to go up over time instead of down, meaning a 2,000pt army you bought for $300 back in the early 00's might - even at a 50% discount - sell for the same price now. Potentially even using the same models. Meaning if you leave the hobby and have no intention of getting back in it's easy to get back your investment, or even - in the case of some armies like Tomb Kings or Bretonnians - make a profit (someone who ordered 23 metal Tomb Guard to babysit a Prince and Settra to lead the army back in '04 would have spent ~150 USD, for example, on something that could sell now for $250+ if the seller was in a rush).

>>52671139

ah fair enough,

I was just wanting to flesh out the background of my elf army.

The premise being that they were stuck on campaign long enough that all there equipment was showing signs of wear and a few of them had grown facial hair ( I know this is not the norm but im going for grim, grizzled elves with beards dammit - really tall dwarves...)

Any relief or reinforcements were met with pretty much failure so theyve kind of just been left to fend for themselves on the other side of the world somewhere since no one can find them. I think maybe west coast of naggaroth potentially.

Somewhere windy and full of evil magic. Like Vancouver.

Pretty much theyre trying to find the source of what has marooned them here and is slowly trying to kill them and then trying to find a way home before they all die horribly.


Its broad strokes at the moment but Im trying to veer away from a traditional elf army as much as possible. Raggedy equipment and banners, white lions with tattered furs, beards on the vets, stuff like that. Kind of a Roman force stuck on the german frontier/campaign dealio.

>>52671211
It's never particularly specified how Necrotects maintain / repair their creations, at least to my understanding (8th Edition Tomb Kings had much less fluff padding than prior editions). That said, barring those in Numas or other Living + Dead cities, I would assume they're either stuck doing the labor themselves, whipping mummified servants into doing the work instead (being followed by a trail of angry Liche Priests since it doesn't actually improve performance and just gives them more work to do), or indenturing survivors from raids / tomb robbers to do the work for them.

It's possible that the Mortuary Cult tweaked the rituals for artisans to get a similar result to their skeleton warriors and we just don't hear about it because WHFB was focused on battles and the RPG has no reason to focus on the day-to-day infrastructure of a race featured in a single Adventure Book, but while it's a simple assumption to make the lack of direct evidence to support it means canon purists might have a tissy if presented as anything more than a plausible possibility.

Always gives me chills reading about Magnus the Pious and the war in Kislev.

>>52663632
Pray he doesn't read the Injustice comic, he'll have you go out Nightwing style.

Are there even (good) TK novels?