Warhammer Fantasy General

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Alright, so I'm going through the WFRP2 Errata, after noticing that the Career Compendium, just like everything else published by FFG under the WFRP2 license, didn't take the Errata into account, despite the fact that the Career Compendium was pretty much the only thing they actually made themselves. What fucking cunts.

Anyway, in the Errata, under Children of the Horned Rat, there's a reference to a downloadable appendix supplement, to a URL that is long-since dead and buried. Picture related.

Anyone have any idea where to find it? It's not in the usual troves, because I should already have all that. I tried searching around a bit, but came up empty. But it has to be out there, somewhere, probably in an obvious place that I'm just missing.

>>52600335

Fuck me, that's enough to make me want to start Lizardfags.

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Do Centaur exist in the Warhammer world?

I know about Beastmen Centigor and Chaos Dwarf Bull Centaur but I was thinking a cavalry army with Wood Elves or Warriors of Chaos rules might be cool.

>>52605857
in the first editions there were entries for chaos centaurs I'm pretty sure

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Dumpan john blanche's plans for the direction of the 6th ed rulebook

1/7

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>>52606069

2/7

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>>52606082

3/7

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>>52606099

4/7

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I'm pondering if i did the right thing or if i were coerced into wasting fate points during our WFRP session.

I got a mutation that would have to be removed asap to avoid suspicion, instead everyone insisted i should burn a fate point and get another mutation. I did that and got one that was even worse but i could still choose among those two. They still insisted i should aim for another because the choices were between shit and more shit.

I felt i had to go along and go for third try and got something manageable but now I'm down to zero fate points in our deadly adventure. I can't tell if I'm just being moody for having zero get out of free jail card left or if everyone else fooled me into wasting FP (which I'm not sure if they intended since were all good friends and haven't done anything similar)

Feelings are such strange things i should just suck it up and carry on but still.

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>>52606117

5/7

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>>52606129

6/7

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>>52606145

7/7

>>52606154
>Karl's middle name is Leonard

>>52606036
Thanks, I'll look that up. I forgot to mention Dragon Ogres as well.

Looks like all four examples are Chaos related.

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I come bearing gifts. I created an Errata'd Career Compendium. It's quite minor, considering that there actually weren't that many (Career Compendium) careers to errata.

It's mostly things like Skald getting Read/Write, Warlock getting a (necessary) Speak Language skill, and Riverwardens getting Swim. All Errata/FAQ stuff, not homebrewing or anything.

Second is the Official Web Enhancement for the Career Compandium, a "Master List of Career Entries & Exits". In the Career Compendium, Entries & Exits are often wrong, because they didn't update them when they listed all the Careers.

In most cases, they just listed them as they were originally printed, meaning that older careers doesn't refer you to newer careers. This fixes that.

https://mega.nz/#!QwJjnZIC!tycH8eaYFioP46uZ0X00njosgDJkvGDPBLh6q8HIASg

https://mega.nz/#!poYnhLQD!pTbUM8hp4cqFyRtCeS2MPVbDGMY0nWR_fVtbfOMTjP8

>>52605857
Basically, if you are part one thing, and part another, then major Chaos fuckery is involved. So Chaos is your best bet.

>>52606378
Well, except for animals I should add.

They are still able to breed some crazy shit that way, although I bet copious amounts of magic are involved.

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>>52606356
Actually, fuck that. Here's an even better version:

https://mega.nz/#!dxgSmChS!7C0vgcQyQu-qjjvET3Y1aII96K6Pjvr4uwBv3jODc5U

Not only is it an Errata'd Career Compendium, but I simply folded the official Web Enhancement with the Entries/Exits Master List into it, so you have all the correct career information in a single document:

https://mega.nz/#!dxgSmChS!7C0vgcQyQu-qjjvET3Y1aII96K6Pjvr4uwBv3jODc5U

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>>52605857
>Do Centaur exist in the Warhammer world?

Well, no. All the faun/beastmen stuff are.. well.. beastmen, or similar. Doesn't mean that it's not a cool idea, but canonically, we'd be talking Beastmen or the Bull-/Boar-centaurs of the Chaos Dwarfs.

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>>52605383

Could you not have copied and pasted the revised OP anon?

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>>52606670
Probably could've, but the old thread didn't show up on a search, so I grabbed an old copypasta. I haven't been around in a while so I wasn't sure if there was an ongoing thread or not, so I just went with it. Sorry 'bout that.

Dhar mutates the living right? Could it be possible with Wellspring of Dhar, warpstone, and a sufficient Magic characteristic to try to manipulate the way Dhar mutates the living?

Like the way Greater Necromancy works but without the thing being dead and ending up brain dead once brought back?

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>>52606980
Anything is possible. Is it probably, though? No, not really. All magic is essentially Dhar when it enters the world, after all, after which it crystallizes and separates (and then, sometimes, melds together again, on purpose or not).

Dhar is just a term for uncontrolled magic or undiluted raw "force", or magic that is polluted or mixed. A Hedge Wizard that is pulling on whatever winds of magic is available, the life-force in the trees on a good day, or from the fire at the heart at the same time, is technically using Dhar.

Humans (or at least The Empire) generally avoid the random nature of Dhar and mutations by focusing on a single wind. This means that they only have to consistently resist and control that one aspect, and are "mutated" in a controlled fashion, which is why Imperial Wizards take on aspects of their winds, not just physically, but also mentally. Arcane Marks, the thing that gives Bright Wizards red hair and makes Amber Wizards go feral, are really just low-key controlled mutations.

If you want to do specific mutations, you're going to have to pull on specific strands of Dhar, and at that point, you're not really using Dhar anymore. And if you've got such a mastery of it that you can pull on specific strands and then weave them together to achieve something very specific, using the exact right amounts of the various constituent forces of Dhar, you're not really using Dhar at all anymore, but Qhaysh, High Magic.

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>>52607212
>probably
*probable

Also, let's be clear that Dhar doesn't just mutate the living. Dhar and Chaos mutates absolutely fucking everything it can, even if it's a doorknob. It just takes longer. It's why the absence of chaos elves and such is such an absurd notion. There's places in the Chaos Wastes that grow spikes straight out of the ground, and we've regularly seen entire buildings grow spikes and fangs.

Dhar is one hell of a drug.

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>>52606788

I'll forgive you.

>>52605446

Are there dark elf player characters in WFRP 2e?

End Times

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>>52607396
No, Black Industries was fucked by GW and FFG took over and canned WFRP2 before the planned Elf and Dwarf supplements were finished. They were planned, but they never materialized.

There's general rules for general elves in the Empire, though. It's nondescript, and could be used for any kind of Elf, really, but it's also not expressly high elf, wood elf, sea elf, or dark elf.

It's somewhat implied to be wood elves, though, but could just as well be high elf if you're playing a spellcaster.

I always wanted a united dwarf (mountain/chaos/norse) supplement, and a united elven supplement. Alas, it's unlikely to ever be.

>>52607396
How would you justify a Dark Elf PC anyway? Don't they hate just about everyone? And they certainly aren't well liked.

Could have been cool to have dangerous parts of the Warhammer world fleshed out more. Imagine getting to roleplay being one of the first slaves to ever escape from Klar Kalrond or something.

>>52605857
Yes. Centaurs are Chaos creatres. Either Centigors or those things that Chaos Dwarves have I forget their name

Save Pegasus and Griffins any kind of fusion animal will be Chaotic.

>>52607651
Pegasus and Griffins are 'chaos creatures,' in that they're creatures affected by Chaos warping things a bit. Doesn't mean that they're Chaos creatures like Beastmen though.

So is T9A any good or what? The unit pricing scheme seems pants on head retarded, especially since MSU lists seem to be dominant (for Lizards anyways). They seem to have nerfed the shit out of the Slann, which was one of the biggest draws to the faction for me.

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>>52607628
>How would you justify a Dark Elf PC anyway?

I honestly have a hard time understanding that they prioritized a Vampire supplement, a full Chaos supplement AND a Skaven supplement, with rules for playing Vampires/Skaven/Chaos, as well as no less than three fully human-centric full supplements (Empire, Kislev, Bretonnia), before they made an elven and/or a dwarf supplement.

That being said, however, how you would justify playing a dark elf PC goes about the same as how you'd justify a chaos PC, or a skaven PC, or a vampire/thrall PC. It's for a completely different type of niched campaign separate from core assumptions of the game.

I could arguably see a dark elf PC being in a somewhat regular game, though, as an individual, but at that point, he's just an elf of a specific cultural background, a pretty far cry from the archetypical dark elf, who violently despise the lesser races far beyond what even high elves/wood elves (or sea elves, for that matter) do.

I just really wished there'd been more stuff for them. I'm not the one that wants to play a dark elf, though, I would've just wanted that to be a small part of a big supplement dealing with the elves and inter-elven relations.

I'm convinced that hadn't GW buttfucked Black Industries and the hacks at FFG taken over, we would've eventually gotten supplements for Cathay and/or Ind and/or Nippon, Lustria, and maybe even Albion or the Southlands.

What are the best Warhammer novels? Is Gotrek and Felix series really the only notable ones?

>>52606069
>>52606082
>>52606099
>>52606117
>>52606129
>>52606145
>>52606154

They mustn't have taken much of this into account since the 6th edition BRB is pretty bland inside.

>>52608226

Malus Darkblade is pretty good.

G&F was kind of like the Horus Heresy for Fantasy, it was the franchise that started small and became so popular that GW kept releasing new stories even after King moved on.

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>>52608227
Nigga, what?

Do Dwarf slayers use throwing weapons? Or does it vary depending on individuals?

Forgive me for being melodramatic but the saddest part about this whole fiasco over the last decade is Fantasy in another timeline could have been and continued to be a great success. But they shit on it and then killed it off for an abomination of a skirmish game.


I savor the images in this thread for we will never see its likeness created again.

>>52608686
Seems like WFB is really taking off in video games the past few years. The times haven't ended yet.

Warhammer Fantasy is probably my favorite high fantasy setting ever. It's the perfect mix of traditional fantasy, grimdark, and trope-breaking.

>>52609298
My favourite part of it is the over-the-top detailing that they put into the lifestyle of things - the horses, guns, armour, clothing, it's great. You don't see that in other stuff.

>>52608557

Apart from that one image.

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>>52608686

GW will bring it back in some form eventually...

The question is if we should go back or tell them to fuck off after they basically ditched up for the age 4 - 10 crowd.

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>tfw no whfrp2e games on roll20 run by not-retards

>>52609737
If you want to be a player get friends (if you have none), run a game for them, try to be an ok GM, then they will be inspired to run their own games.

>>52608050
Im pretty sure "chaos creatures" are all malicious things actually made from evil energies, which pegasus and griffins aren't

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Tell me I'm not the only one who would have preferred Nagash to be normal sized?

>>52608686
>Forgive me for being melodramatic

No. Fuck off forever you miserable cunt.

>>52610063
>Im pretty sure "chaos creatures" are all malicious things actually made from evil energies, which pegasus and griffins aren't

Chaos creatures are mutants and daemons.
Pegasi and Gryphons are mutants.

>>52610487
I'm also on that side. While I enjoy big monsters like behemots (terrorgheist), I dislike humanoids made big, just for the purpose of being big. It's so boring and unoriginal. He would have been a great normal sized necromancer/lich.

>>52610991
But Nagash is a mutant Lich being normal sized doesn't fit him at all.

>>52610991

Same as Magnus, just another reason to shill a massive kit rather than a reasonably sized gaming piece.

>>52605446
https://web.archive.org/web/20071107065409/http://www.blackindustries.com/pdf/articles/skaven-characters.pdf
here you go mate

>>52611022

I suppose he has constructed the body from various sources and making it large and intimidating has a purpose but Ogre sized rather than Bloodthirster would have been my preference.

Will there be humans/orcs/beastmen/etc in the New World campaign for TW:W 2?

>>52611636

Yes to all three.

Estilea has settlements in Lustia.

Orcs are everywhere.

Beastmen exist in the north of Naggarond.

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So my box of Empire of Dust skellies arrived. The metal bits are nicely cast, aside from some trimming needed to get them to join with the plastic legs. And the shields are separate pieces as well, which is always nice. Will post photos once I get some done. Should be excellent TK replacements (once I swap the shields).

Only gripe is some excess pewter in shitty places, like chunks inside of hands. Damn near broke one of the little bastards trying to trim it.

Alright, lets start some sort of discussion:

Whats your favourite faction and why?

Whats your favourite sub-faction within that faction and why?

and finally,

What do you like most about fantasy as a whole?

>>52611710

I always find the thing with mantic models that lets them down is the awful paintjob by whoever the guy is that they hire to paint them.

They look like really nice models just the paintjob is holding them back.

How many did you end up buying by the way?

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>>52611710

Cool, I'm interested to see what they look like unpainted.

I don't know if it's just the paintjob on the website but the detail looks a bit soft on them?

>>52611807
>>52611790
Just bought one box of 20, didn't want to buy a shitload and then hate the things.

And yeah, Mantic paintjobs are really hit or miss. The detail is good though - not up to GW's standard (on most models, of course, and it's not Forgeworld by any means), but definitely good enough for $28. Still not sure on what paintjob I'm gonna go with, but it wont be shitloads of blue, that's for sure.

Now we just need some chariots and my Tomb Kings dreams will come true.

>>52611660
Neat. I hope Estalia gets fleshed out a bit instead of being Empire clones.

Does anyone have the 'Skaven behind this post' image? It's important.

>>52608686
Honestly, I don't know how to feel about WHFB. It could have been great, but at the same time, I just don't think it could have been a success, even if they pumped as much effort into it as they do AoS.

Taking a look at the more popular games on the market today, nobody really seems all that eager to play Rank and File games like WHFB. If that was true, 9th age and KoW should be highly relevant; but they're not.

On the other hand, it is a dam shame about the lore. Age of Sigmar, even at its best, is a travesty. But it is clear that the tone they have for AoS is nowhere close to that of WHFB's, and I think WHFB on a whole would have suffered if they tried to blend the two together.

>>52611710
Can you take some pics anon?

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>>52611952

Well, they'd probably look something like this, so it shouldn't be too hard for a modder to do something with them.

Here's a pet peeve, why do some people portray them as 17th century Spanish when all the info suggests they're less technologically advanced than the Empire?

>Beastmen
>Skaven
Is Estalia pretty much instantly fucked in the new TW: W 2 map?

>>52612024
Once the roommate gets home, I'll take some pics of the sprues and the one I've got ready to basecoat.

I'd use the camera on my phone, but it's less than one megapixel, and it'd end up looking like impressionistic art.

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>>52606069
>>52606082
>>52606099
>>52606117
>>52606129
>>52606145
>>52606154
Glorious, thanks anon. That's going in my Blanche archive.

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>>52612008

They threw the baby out with the bathwater.

Save rank and flank for 10-15mm but keep the landsknecht.

>>52612064
If you modded TW:W with a faction and unlocker and played them, they were already pretty much fucked - beastmen herds were rampaging around your three cities from the start of the campaign. Not to mention Tilea is comprised of antagonistic dickbags, Brettonia is RIGHT FUCKING THERE, and then you've got Naz-I mean Wood Elves within marching distance as well.

Estalia is hard mode.

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Here's my homebrew again with even more editing. Would you use it? I'm thinking of adding various war machines as well since a few of those have been given weapon profiles.

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>>52612045
Well, there are two distinct cultures in Estalia - the north is more Bretonnian-friendly, though I don't know what differentiates the south. It could be that they are both less technologically advanced, but also 17th century levels of tech, depending on if you are in the north or south. Or maybe it's a matter of fashion rather than technology.

>>52612110
Which is ironic, because Estalia's supposed to be one of the most peaceful places in the Old World.

>>52612163

Well, in Estalia they are because all their neighbours are friendly.

I bet in Lustria they're thieving from the Lizardmen.

>>52612133
Oh hey, looks like you adapted my house rules. Good stuff.

The only thing I'd point out on a brief scan is that two-handed mounted spears and lances seem a little unnecessary. I don't think I've ever seen a reference to a mounted warrior using a two-handed spear (or a two-handed anything actually, but that's a different matter).

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>>52612155

I think people just pick it because it was an iconic time for the Spanish Empire.

But generally speaking in the context of Warhammer, Estalia appears to be the Empire but with Morions and no steam tanks.

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>>52612273
True, very true. This is the only Estalia art I know of - notice the braided beard, and the crescent symbols on the heraldry shield.

>>52612008
Large scale rank and file combat in 28mm is just a terrible idea that was forced by GW and seemed to work for a while.

As you say, the loss is the setting. WHFB is by far my favorite fantasy setting and nothing really comes close in terms of great source material and great opportunities for Your Guys.

>>52612155
>>52612273
They aren't 17th century level. Their helmets and clothing are based on 16th century stuff just like the Empire. Also Spain was never more advanced than Northern Europe.

>>52612268
Historically, spears and lances on cavalry were used in a two-handed manner for far longer than they were used in combination with a shield.

>>52612348

That's basically what I meant.

The Battle of Rocroi was in the 1640's, and this is how a lot of people imagine Estalia to look (which is fine if you want them that way).

But all the evidence suggests they'd look more like >>52612045, which is early 16th century, about the same time as landsknechts.

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>>52612024
Not the greatest pics, but it's late and all I got's MS paint an roomies iPhone.

If you look at the skellie's shield hand, you can see a large chunk of flash that's proven rather difficult to remove. The detail is a bit fuzzy in the pic, but it'll be more noticeable once it's painted.

And no, that's not anything odd on the base, I just put some watered down glue to hold the basing material in place.

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>>52612343

Hey that helmet looks familiar.

>>52612421

They looks miles better than the old GW kits.

I can see why you wanted different shields though. Shame nobody sold 28mm khopesh's.

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>>52612543
I ended up ordering some of pic related from Crocodile games. Aside from the cowhide paintjob, they should work great.

And I think Reaper actually sells Khopesh's, but they were part of weapon packs, only came with a few, and were around $10. Wasn't really worth it. Gonna dig around my bits box, but I'm not hopeful - the things were rare enough in the GW kits.

>>52612610

Yeah should look good with a solid blue insert.

What game/list are you running anon? In 8th it was rare to see TK skelly blocks.

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>>52612635
Well, I'm not sure yet. I only ever played a few games. I love me some organized, well trained infantry blocks though, so I will definitely be making a few, if for no other reason than bunkers for my Heirophants. The lists I did build were always fluffy, though, for better or worse. Toying around with trying it with the 9th Age rules, as I really like them.

I did play one particular list with VC back in the day, titled "Kemmler and Krell's Necromantic Circus" full of as many skeletons as I could fit in a list. Which is a lot, by the way.

>>52612008
>9th age and KoW should be highly relevant; but they're not
Both of them suffer from being WHFB knock-offs. T9A especially needs to unshackle itself from some of WHFB 8E really shitty design decisions (the magic phase as a whole is especially terrible).

28mm is an awkward scale for ranked combat. 28mm is also a terrible scale for sci-fi combat, and 40k is doing great.

I don't think you could really mesh AoS and WHFB tone-wise, but you could definitely find a middle ground rules wise. A more gradual shift like what 40k's having could have also been attempted.

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>>52612688

Yeah big VC style blocks seem to be popular in 9th for TK.

> As many skeletons as I could fit.

Sounds... spooky.

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>>52612815

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>>52612838
I'd laugh more if this apartment building didn't have walls made of wafers.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lastsword/reichguard-knigths

Looks like this is ending.

32mm, but designed to work with GW minis. Pic related.

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So CA caters to the fucking fur fags, and creepy scalies instead of the greatest race in the entire Warhammer multiverse?

>>52612885

They look quite good but I'm not sure what to use them as? Bretonnian style would have probably been more useful.

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>>52610991
>>52611446
I just figure new Nagash isn't supposed to be a physical body, he's just a giant spirit. Like Death in Castlevania: Lament Of Innocence. He's giant, the stage is actually his cape.

If they gave him Ethereal it would have made more sense.

>>52612926
Chaos Dwarfs will be added in due time. Save the best for last? They better get missions to provide weapons to 'destruction' factions.

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>>52612822
It never worked terribly well (mostly because I didn't have hundreds of skeletons and proxying that many is irritating), but it was silly amounts of fun.

>Okay, so your chosen knights successfully charged my unit, and killed more than a dozen skeletons
>The other 48 skeletons look at you in disgust and annoyance
>youhaveangeredtheKrell.gif

>>52612927
Empire.

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>>52612926

We already have Wood Elves though?

>>52612945

Yeah but the Empire has never had foot knights, except for the Knights of Ulric but they don't have the pelts.

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>>52612949
I don't know why they chose to start in the middle with Elves.

You'd figure they would go worst to best and start with Dark Elves.

>>52612955
I think its for Greatsword variation. That's what they show them alongside.

>>52612958
Dark Elves are the only ones that belong. High Elves are Generic: The Faction, only included to cater to That Guy. Wood elves are lame, as one would expect.

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>>52612987
t. motherfucker

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>>52612987
I'd hardly call High Elves generic. They straddle the line between 'We can save the world' and 'Only WE can save the world' pretty well, depending on which kingdom you talk to (ie; Caledor or any other kingdom).

Keep in mind they still make war on 'Order' factions like Bretonnia and the Empire if it is necessary. Not to the extent of Tomb Kings when they're missing a dollar, but still willing to slay a thousand humans to save a single elven life if it comes to it. Finubar has a more relaxed policy when it comes to humans, though it's still restrictive.

>>52612987
I just don't see what the point is of Dark Elves without the other two to provide contrast. Otherwise they're more spindly and spiky Norse raiders, without a half-reasonable explanation for their world hatred.

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>>52613028
>Not to the extent of Tomb Kings when they're missing a dollar

THAT WAS MY BRONZE BRACELET
BRING ME FLUFFY, HE'S GOT WORK TO DO

>>52613097
GIVE ME MY LIVING-FATHER'S RING
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>52613143
Nice.

Is Garagrim canon?

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>>52613256
Seeing as how 'Storm of Chaos' isn't canon, since GW rolled back the odometer', no. But I consider him canon. My WFRP canon is 20 years into the future and I take all the SoC events into consideration.

>>52613270
Kinda sucks that Garagrim is dead no matter what continuity, his model was better than his dad and Gotrek's.

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>>52613286
That's the thing about WFRP. I'm the GM so I pick the best, as I see it, timeline and make my own story.

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>>52613297
Using DM powers to save the lewdest model GW ever made?

>>52613319
No, but that's a decent bum. No homo.

>>52613319
I've been collecting since '97 and this is the first time I've seen the back of this model. Is that supposed to be beard between his legs? Every result on google is showing a fleshcolored ballsack and I didn't think GW made their minis anatomically correct.

>>52613353
It can go either way. Presumably it is supposed to be beard, but it doesn't look like it and almost nobody painted it that way. I have one, you look at it and there's no way it looks like a beard.

Garagrim has the best warface, an amazing dynamic pose, and a fantastic ass with huge balls but is doomed to die in every single continuity in the only mention of him in continuity so you can't use him for anything.

>>52613388
He's got such huge balls he had to die anyway. His timeline overlapped.

>>52609737
I'll just leave this here.

https://discord.gg/WTkppcD

>>52613425
Its also kind of a shitty gutpunch to Dwarf players in Storm.

Garagrim is a character introduced to set out and die to free Ungrim from the Slayer Oath. Garagrim succeeds, and Ungrim takes the Oath again because of it.

Its an almost jokingly bad status quo reset.

>>52613270
Storm of Chaos is canon in WFRP/Warhammer Fantasy, it's only in the End Times/Age of Sigmar setting that is isn't, but fuck that.

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>>52613459
I like to think that GW wasn't equipped to deal with the fan results. So Ungrim did good, but had to fail because of the 'hand of Gav', which made everything for Dwarfs meaningless.

>>52613471
It is canon considering 2nd edition, I just had to mention later editions. Seeing as how GW dropped everything in late 7th and fucked up everything in 8th.

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Cool Aztec and Pacific Northwest Indian mini kickstarter. Some of these might be good for Skink proxies.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2139148164/going-native-aztecs-the-kings-of-war

>>52610063
>chaos creatures are all malicious things
This isn't true. Imperial wizards are basically all technically mutated in some way, and there are divine servants of the Old Gods that are technically daemons, although not referred to as such, nor necessarily malicious.

>>52610927
>pegasi and gryphons are mutants
Source? First I ever hear of this. They breed true, though, so like the skaven, I don't think theyc can be considered mutants even if that would be true.

>>52613595
Anything in Warhammer Fantasy not created by the Old Ones or exists in our world is a Chaos mutant. Something mutated by the Winds of Magic.

That's not to say they are aligned to Chaos. All Trolls are creatures born of Chaos, not all Trolls are aligned with Chaos. White Lions and Phoenixes are born of Chaos, but are anti-Chaos and loyal to the High Elves.

Its one of those last few vestiges of Chaos wank that isn't The Four wank left in the lore from the old days. Everything is Chaos, not everything is Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, or Khorne.

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>>52608227
The what now

>>52613662
>Anything in Warhammer Fantasy not created by the Old Ones or exists in our world is a Chaos mutant.
Dragons and dragon ogres predate old ones and chaos.

>>52611807
I have some mantic minis (undead, demons and lizards) and the details are pretty good.

>>52612008
>but they're not.
KoW is literally bigger than AoS in europe despite not having GW to back it up, what are you on about ?

>>52613718
Chaos is a fundamental force of existence. I think that's his point. Everything exists somewhere between complete Order and complete Chaos, between creation and oblivion. The gates crashing opened up portals to the realms of chaos, but it was always there, underlying the fabric of the universe. On a meta level, anyway.

>>52613662
The World was populated by all manner of life and even civilizations before the Old Ones arrived, you lying bastard.

>>52613718
I don't know, according to the Elves the Dragons come from their gods.

>>52613765
Just stop. Stop. You don't know what you are talking about.

>>52613765
That and GW shitting up their lore by putting the Chaos Gods behind every single thing.

Apparently you can't act retarded unless its Tzeentch's fault.

>>52613471
>Storm of Chaos is canon in WFRP/Warhammer Fantasy,

No, it's not. It's canon in the discontinued old RPG. But in the FFG newer books its not canon.

>>52613749
>KoW
Whatnow? Honest question, since I'm not into wargaming. But yeah, it's bullshit to say that rank-and-file wargaming is dead, it's indeed pretty big in parts of Europe, at least.

>>52613792
Kings of War, the rank and file game written by Alessio Cavatore. Tight ruleset if there is one.

>>52613773
Every core rulebook says dragons were inhabiting world before oldfags came, elves are pansies who love lies, its also possible that ancestors of elves, dwarfs and humans were also living before them, and oldfags only uplifted them, not specifically made from nothing.

>>52613787
In WFRP3, the base setting assumption is set prior to Storm of Chaos, ya fookin' mong. The world is just at the brink of the Storm of Chaos, and it's coming is all but assured. It is simply set before the events, but it's definitely there.

>>52613837
Nope. It's set in the same period late 7th ED and 8th ED was in. As in before the End Times while the old DISCONTINUED RPG was set after Storm of Chaos, you double mong. So Storm of Chaos is not canon in the latest RPGs.

>>52613854
Keep going on with you headcanon anon, but please do it there >>52607383

>>52613822
Nope. You getting it wrong. The world was created by the Elven survivors from the previous cycle. All life on the planet, including dragons were created by Isha.

The Old Ones just came in as trespassers and changed the order and creation of the Elven Gods. Ruining the course of the cycle.

I mean for fuck sake, I know hating Elves is a meme but act like a mature human being and recognize that the Elves (Not Dark Elves) in Warhammer are inherently good and have not told a single lie. Only mouth breathers hate the Elves in warhammer.

>>52613873
Nope, The FFG RPGS were written in same years as 8th ED and do not feature Storm of Chaos in any capacity. So you are a moron and SoC is not canon in the RPGs. Stop trying to lie to people.

We can download the rulebooks and prove you wrong easily.

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>>52613881
Leave and never return.

>>52613894
Do it, prove me wrong, go ahead.

>>52613903
Elf haters have no place in this world.

>>52613881
At no point in the canon does it imply in any way that the Old Ones and Elves didn't get along.

>>52613905
Download the Discontinued RPG and you will see that it is set after Storm of Chaos. It's in the general links above.

Now go download any FFG RPG and try to find any mention of Storm of Chaos. Zero.

>>52606378
then griffion and its cousin species are fucking heresy. Ironically it is the symbol of empire.

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>>52613881
I actually love elves/eldar, i only never read End Times lore, were the cycles mentioned in novels?

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>>52613906
I play High Elves, End Times is fucking bullshit.
>>52613921
No, because despite being the product of Chaos they don't have Chaos taint.

>>52613914
I didn't imply they were at odds. Just that the Old Ones intruded on the Elven Cycle and screwed over everything in their meddling.

The Winds of Chaos/Magic, Chaos coming early, all those extra races, etc. They weren't part of the Elven Pantheon design. Everything bad that happened to this world can be traced to the Old Ones. Everything good that happened can be traced to the Elves and their gods.

>>52613921
Pegasi, Hippogryphs and Gryphons/Demigryphs started out as Chaos mutations that somehow "stabilized".

>>52613928
Curse of Khaine.

>>52613928
>were the cycles mentioned in novels?
No.

It was invented for End Times.
While Games Workshop DID have a folder of all sorts of information for authors to skirt around, it was never even implied in any preceding work and was just thrown together to justify the shitty modern GW writing.

Its similar to how it was planned all along for the Lady to be an Elf, but it being Lileath manipulating the world into one giant an hero was just bullshit used to justify their garbage level narrative.

>>52613929
> despite being the product of Chaos they don't have Chaos taint.
>>52613944

then how do you tell chaos taint? what does stabilized mean?

>>52613943
You know that's something introduced in the End Times, right? Canon that a lot of people don't really agree with?

Even then, that implies that the elves themselves were personally screwed over on the Pheonix King front.

>>52613943
>Just that the Old Ones intruded on the Elven Cycle and screwed over everything in their meddling.
Which is End Times.
Which is not fucking canon.

>>52613952
Magic has a physical effect on the world. All magic is technically Chaos.

But it isn't Chaos Chaos. Its neutral Chaos.

Chaos Chaos shit is full of tentacles, can only destroy, it instinctively is unwholesome to all mortal beings, and is used by those who serve Chaos.

If it acts like an animal, can be tamed, and is present in the world rather than in the Chaos Wastes, its okay.

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>>52613951
I wish I had a source on this, but I have no idea if this is the 'folder of all sorts of information.'

Personally, I kind of preferred the idea that Ariel was mistaken for a deity, but that mistaken identity grew into a deity in its own right. Best way to explain the obvious, and also why the Bretonnians and Wood Elves will fight, if Ariel could easily show up as the Lady and go 'no fighting.'

>>52613958
>Even then, that implies that the elves themselves were personally screwed over on the Pheonix King front.

The whole confusion and later conflict over the PK was orchestrated by the Chaos Gods whom the Old Ones invented to this world.

Due to the Old Ones meddling and throwing the cycle out of whack, Asuryan was assassinated by Khaine and all that remained of him was a spirit powerless to act as things went out of Chaos. Asuryan put his hopes in Lileath, a child at the time, to make things right and make sure the cycle continues. She did great all things considered but alas the cycle is no more because of the fucking Bret assholes.

>>52613996
Yep, that's the folder.

Authors were instructed to skirt around the issue, but never actually go in on it.

For End Times they retconned the fuck out of the folder that all GW writers were given to base their stories on.

>>52613976
>Which is not fucking canon.

No.

This is not canon = "But it isn't Chaos Chaos. Its neutral Chaos".

>>52614011
>For End Times they retconned the fuck out of the folder that all GW writers were given to base their stories on.

Post proof. For you all you know it might have always been there.

>>52614013
>>52614004

Counterpoint: the fucking High Elves 8e book specifically points out that the White Lions are born of Chaos, but are not Chaos aligned.

All you can point to for this "Elves predate the world" bullshit is End Times, which is the prequel to Age of Sigmar and thus not canon to Warhammer Fantasy.

Malekith isn't the true Phoenix King, Valaya wasn't part of a Nagash vore comic, and Lileath wasn't the greatest villain of Warhammer.

>>52614021 see >>52613996 and accept your BTFO before kindly sodomizing yourself with a Sigmarine sideways.

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>>52614004
It's sort of a double-ended problem; you can argue it's the Bret's fault (which it wasn't technically, but let's go with that for the sake of the argument) for having a hissy fit once they actually learned the truth about the Lady, but it was also Lileath's fault for having manipulated them in the first place, instead of working with elves or creating a new race, because for some reason Asuryan wouldn't allow it?

So basically the cycle was doomed to be unable to continue from the start, because they didn't think about how a race that they instilled with ideas of duty and honor would react to a betrayal of everything they held dear at the last minute - Lileath assumed they'd fall into line, but it turns out they wanted to prove that they were Bretonnian despite Lileath.

>>52614034
>born of Chaos, but are not Chaos aligned.

Yes, and? The Old Ones stole the power of the Chaos Gods and used it in reordering of the world and spawning of its many new species. That's why Chaos invaded in the first place to get back what was taken from them. Heck, the Wood Elf army book says that the daemons saw the cruel dryads and tree spirits as kindred since they were spawned from the same source.

The rest of your posts is wishful thinking.

>Lileath wasn't the greatest villain of Warhammer.

And this is slander. She is a fucking saint.

>>52614065
>Yes, and? The Old Ones stole the power of the Chaos Gods and used it in reordering of the world and spawning of its many new species. That's why Chaos invaded in the first place to get back what was taken from them. Heck, the Wood Elf army book says that the daemons saw the cruel dryads and tree spirits as kindred since they were spawned from the same source.
YES.
BORN OF CHAOS AKA MAGIC, NOT ALIGNED WITH CHAOS BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SERVE CHAOS.

Come on man, you literally just disproved your own point.

>And this is slander. She is a fucking saint.
Not really. According to End Times, which you keep referencing, she was wrong all along and literally the cause of End Times since her preventing the rescue of the Everchild resulted in Nagash ascending resulting in Archaon invading, along with her sabotaging every faction fighting against him. She does more to cause End Times than fucking Tzeentch does.

>>52614056
>but it turns out they wanted to prove that they were Bretonnian despite Lileath.

For about like a week? The level of Bret stupidity here is staggering. Here is why

1) They made an oath. A knight fulfills his oath regardless of the consequences and truths behind it.

2) The World was dying and innocents were all going to consumed by the fire. A knight protects the innocent everywhere. The Brets turned their backs on the world and everyone in it choosing to go to doe at some forsaken corner in the world while the true heroes fought to save the world and its people.

>because for some reason Asuryan wouldn't allow it?

Not after the Chaos Gods broke their backs. Expending what remains of their godly power to create a new race which cripple what was already a crippled pantheon.

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Reminder.

>>52614099
>BORN OF CHAOS AKA MAGIC, NOT ALIGNED WITH CHAOS BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SERVE CHAOS.

Did i say ALIGNED with Chaos? No. I said just Chaos. There is no neutral Chaos. It's all the corrupting mess that flows from the gods themselves.

>Not really. According to End Times, which you keep referencing, she was wrong all along and literally the cause of End Times since her preventing the rescue of the Everchild resulted in Nagash ascending resulting in Archaon invading, along with her sabotaging every faction fighting against him. She does more to cause End Times than fucking Tzeentch does.

Wrong. That was Teclis realizing that he was being led on by Lileath who had to intention of saving the world merely postponing its demise until the Sanctuary was complete and safe.

She did not regret a single thing expect maybe what she did with the Brets but that's debatable.

>>52614148
>Did i say ALIGNED with Chaos? No. I said just Chaos. There is no neutral Chaos. It's all the corrupting mess that flows from the gods themselves.
I'm sorry, are you being pedantic about the way someone describes that exact point or are you incapable of reading comprehension?

>Wrong. That was Teclis realizing that he was being led on by Lileath who had to intention of saving the world merely postponing its demise until the Sanctuary was complete and safe. She did not regret a single thing expect maybe what she did with the Brets but that's debatable.
How is that wrong? I never said anything about her feeling guilty, just that she is guilty.

She caused End Times to begin and sabotaged every faction that could stop it. She's the Horus of Warhammer Fantasy according to End Times.

>>52614148
continued....

>Everchild resulted in Nagash ascending resulting in Archaon invading

Archaon was going to invade anyways. His invasion didn't hinge on Nagash at all. With Lileath's plan for Malekith and the Incarnates then the world would have been destroyed sooner.

The world was hopeless before the might of Chaos. The Lizardfags were BTFO by the Skaven. The Empire and the DarK Elves by just the vanguard of the Chaos invasion. The whole world was being overrun.

>>52614180
well.......the forces of order could win but mannfred fucked it all up.

>>52614171
>I'm sorry, are you being pedantic about the way someone describes that exact point or are you incapable of reading comprehension?

Nope, you are just trying to isolate Chaos from Chaos. There is no neutral Chaos. Only neutral creatures created from Chaos which is not neutral.

>How is that wrong?

Because she did nothing wrong and has no cause to regret anything. She did not cause the End Times, she reacted to it and gave them hope despite she, being a goddess of prophecy, knowing that there is none.

>>52614180
>Archaon was going to invade anyways.
Yep, and it would have resulted in Storm of Chaos. A far better event with far better writing.
>His invasion didn't hinge on Nagash at all.
Literally stated that he invaded early because of the rise of Nagash.
>With Lileath's plan for Malekith and the Incarnates then the world would have been destroyed sooner.
Nope, fucking the Vortex made his victory assured.
>The world was hopeless before the might of Chaos. The Lizardfags were BTFO by the Skaven. The Empire and the DarK Elves by just the vanguard of the Chaos invasion. The whole world was being overrun.
In other words all the things that happened because Archaon invaded due to Lileath.

End Times was garbage where Lileath was the end boss and didn't know it, and isn't canon.

>>52614202
>Nope, you are just trying to isolate Chaos from Chaos. There is no neutral Chaos. Only neutral creatures created from Chaos which is not neutral.
The fuck are you trying to say, you stupid cunt?

"There is no neutral Chaos, only neutral Chaos."

Also, even in Chaos there's neutral fucking Chaos, which is the Furies and various non-NKTS Chaos Gods that are mentioned sporadically.

>>52605383
Should I use 6th edition with 7th edition Armybooks? Or the other way round?

>>52614180
That's why End Times writing is so bad.

No wonder people fellate the already awful Strom of Chaos.

>>52614201
You mean the Incarnates. Without the power of the winds, there would be no chance to seal the new portal.

So lets put this forth. What would have happened if Lileath didn't act.

The Lizardfags will get BTFO by the Skaven invasion as will most of the human states in the world. They will be removed from the picture.

The Dark Elves will be driven from their homes or will fight to the death against the Khornate onslaught.

The High Elves will be swarmed by Chaos and possibly the Dark Elf refugees. Tyrion would not take the sword of Khaine and Lileath won't manipulate Malekith to being Asuryan. Denied divine aid, the Elves will either get destroyed or be besieged on their island.

The Orcs will rampage all over the world disunited and aimless.

The tomb Kings will remain irrelevant. Protecting their borders from the Skaven and daemons.

Now for the important part. The Empire. As we saw in the End Times, they will get BTFO by the vanguard of Chaos, the Glottkin. With no Winds of Heaven to the rescue. Altdorf will fall and so will Karl never to rise again. Nurgle's Garden will breach reality into the heart of the Empire dooming all the uncorrupted and creating a tainted bastion no mortal can breach. Archaon would arrive to empire unopposed and dig up the portal and activate it. There would be no one save the gods and Be'lakor who knows about the portal plan. Now will come to stop it. None will have the power to stop it.

Chaos wins.

>>52614237
7th edition with 6th edition armybooks

>>52614259
>The Lizardfags will get BTFO by the Skaven invasion as will most of the human states in the world. They will be removed from the picture.
Skaven would not have participated because Archaon wouldn't have cooperated with them had Nagash not been the wrench in his plans.

So Storm of Chaos.
>The Dark Elves will be driven from their homes or will fight to the death against the Khornate onslaught.
>The High Elves will be swarmed by Chaos and possibly the Dark Elf refugees. Tyrion would not take the sword of Khaine and Lileath won't manipulate Malekith to being Asuryan. Denied divine aid, the Elves will either get destroyed or be besieged on their island.
Dark Elves would be aligned with Chaos because Morathi, and Malekith wouldn't have been "the true Phoenix King" so they would not have been able to win on Ulthuan due to a HElf/HElf civil war.
Wood Elves would not participate and would be keeping Chaos out of the Old World.

So Storm of Chaos.
>The Orcs will rampage all over the world disunited and aimless.
Literally the same thing that happened from the dawn of time until the present.

>The tomb Kings will remain irrelevant. Protecting their borders from the Skaven and daemons.
So?

>Now for the important part. The Empire. As we saw in the End Times, they will get BTFO by the vanguard of Chaos, the Glottkin. With no Winds of Heaven to the rescue. Altdorf will fall and so will Karl never to rise again. Nurgle's Garden will breach reality into the heart of the Empire dooming all the uncorrupted and creating a tainted bastion no mortal can breach. Archaon would arrive to empire unopposed and dig up the portal and activate it. There would be no one save the gods and Be'lakor who knows about the portal plan. Now will come to stop it. None will have the power to stop it.
Then Grimgor headbutts Archaon, because Chaos can't win without Games Workshop cheating.

So Storm of Chaos.
>Chaos wins.
Eventually. But not today, motherfucker.

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>>52614222
>Yep, and it would have resulted in Storm of Chaos. A far better event with far better writing.

Nice heacanon.

>Literally stated that he invaded early because of the rise of Nagash.

Wrong. He was mustering for invasion unknowing of Nagash;s rise. Not caring as well even if he knew.

Post proof. I dare you.

>Nope, fucking the Vortex made his victory assured.

Nope, the power of Chaos was saturating the world regardless of the vortex. Daemons were popping everywhere.

>In other words all the things that happened because Archaon invaded due to Lileath.

Fucker, stop with the lies. Lileath did not cause the invasion. No where in the fluff says this. Archaon was going to invade anyways. In fact, you moron, he invaded many months BEFORE NAGASH ritual took place.

>End Times was garbage where Lileath was the end boss and didn't know it, and isn't canon.

Your lies are garbage, Lileath is a hero, and your face is not canon.

>The fuck are you trying to say, you stupid cunt?

You know what I mean.

>Furies

Created by the Chaos Gods or the refuse of their domain.

>non-NKTS Chaos Gods

Birthed by the Chaos Gods. The Screaming God Child was literally placed in a Chaos Star looking nursery realm by his Four parents. They are all the children of the gods.

>>52614293
>Nice heacanon.
You can't headcanon objective statements, you stupid shit.
>Wrong. He was mustering for invasion unknowing of Nagash;s rise. Not caring as well even if he knew.
No shit, that's the only purpose of Archaon outside of events. He's always preparing.
He invaded due to the rise of Nagash, its literally fucking stated in End Times: Nagash.
>Nope, the power of Chaos was saturating the world regardless of the vortex. Daemons were popping everywhere.
Yeah, no shit. That's why Daemons exist in Warhammer Fantasy, the Vortex keeps them from manifesting their entire armies into the world. Not from keeping all Daemons everywhere out.

Use your fucking head you stupid piece of shit.
>Fucker, stop with the lies. Lileath did not cause the invasion. No where in the fluff says this. Archaon was going to invade anyways. In fact, you moron, he invaded many months BEFORE NAGASH ritual took place.
No, DAEMONS invaded. Archaon began HIS invasion due to Nagash.

Lileath prevented the rescue of the Everchild, causing Nagash to rise, causing Archaon to get off his ass early and End Times to occur instead of Storm of Chaos because Be'lakor suddenly became Doc Brown.
>Your lies are garbage, Lileath is a hero, and your face is not canon.
For fucks sake, even End Times: Archaon calls her a stupid shit that caused everything bad that happened.
>Created by the Chaos Gods or the refuse of their domain.
No, created by CHAOS. Not Chaos Gods.
>Birthed by the Chaos Gods. The Screaming God Child was literally placed in a Chaos Star looking nursery realm by his Four parents. They are all the children of the gods.
Malal wasn't created by the Chaos Gods, nor where Zuvassin, Necoho, or Nuffle.

You're a stupid off-topic piece of shit, because End Times discussion isn't /WFB/ related.

>>52614283
>Skaven would not have participated because Archaon wouldn't have cooperated with them had Nagash not been the wrench in his plans.

You idiot. The Skaven weren't invading because of Archaon asked them to.

And again Archaon paid ZERO attention to Nagash. ZERO. He couldn't care less about Nagash. Fucker are are so bad at the End Times lore. Stop.

>Dark Elves would be aligned with Chaos because Morathi, and Malekith wouldn't have been "the true Phoenix King" so they would not have been able to win on Ulthuan due to a HElf/HElf civil war.

You just ignored what I say did you? Morathi isn't with Chaos and Morathi was losing her mind. She wasn't a help for anyone. She would try one last to woe Tyrion before the end.

The Dark Elves would perish and the High Elves will spent the rest of their short says being hounded by the legion of Chaos on their island the same can be said about the Wood Elves whose poisoned forests and Great Oak will keep them in place as they are swarmed by Beastmen and daemons crawling from the Vaults of Winter.

>Literally the same thing that happened from the dawn of time until the present.

The Orcs were irrelevant then and they would be again without the Incarnate of the Beast leading them. Grimgor would have met his end fighting the Ogres.

>So?

They won't help.

>Then Grimgor headbutts Archaon, because Chaos can't win without Games Workshop cheating.

Busy fighting in the east.

So instead of trying to prove that Lileath was responsible you throw lies and HUUR Storm of Chaos as if it has any relevance to what's being discussed. You failed in your slander of the fair lady utterly.

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This thread is now about Orcs and Goblins.

What shade of green is da best?

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>>52614350
That dark green on the orc in your pic looks real nice.

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>>52614350
the yellower kind of course

>>52614332
>You can't headcanon objective statements, you stupid shit.

Nope, the build up and beginning of the invasion is utterly different from SoC. It's objective lie/headnon.

>No shit, that's the only purpose of Archaon outside of events. He's always preparing.

You are retarded. He was preparing and launched the invasion like I said MANY MANY MONTHS BEFORE NAGASH ROSE. He had NO idea Mannfred and Arkan were going all over the place hunting foer stuff to raise Nagash. Stop lying.

>He invaded due to the rise of Nagash, its literally fucking stated in End Times: Nagash.

Nope, he did not.

>Yeah, no shit. That's why Daemons exist in Warhammer Fantasy, the Vortex keeps them from manifesting their entire armies into the world. Not from keeping all Daemons everywhere out.

Read the first parts of the End Times Nagash book, dumbass. The Vortex was weakened and Chaos daemons were manifesting everywhere.

Literally the first pages.

>Lileath prevented the rescue of the Everchild, causing Nagash to rise, causing Archaon to get off his ass early and End Times to occur instead of Storm of Chaos because Be'lakor suddenly became Doc Brown.

A lie.

>For fucks sake, even End Times: Archaon calls her a stupid shit that caused everything bad that happened.

You lying cunt. Archaon did not even know Lileath exists. He never once mentioned her.

>No, created by CHAOS. Not Chaos Gods.

No, by the gods.

>Malal wasn't created by the Chaos Gods, nor where Zuvassin, Necoho, or Nuffle.

Yeah, they were. All Gods are aspects or portions of gods.

>You're a stupid off-topic piece of shit, because End Times discussion isn't /WFB/ related.

Hey, piece of shit. It's fact checking time. Cite pages or books. I have them all with me. Lets see the truths from lies now.

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>>52614339
>Founder of the Cult of Pleasure
>High Priestess of Slaanesh

>Not Chaos

Wooo, boy.

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>>52614379
Fir green, I'll fight you.

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>>52614380
I don't see any of your claims in this.

I suggest you download it and read the real Warhammer Fantasy canon.

>>52614411
Wrong book. If you want to argue about the End Times, then get reading it. Don't you dare use your ignorance to slander fair Lileath.

>>52614388
8th ED called.

Morathi worships the Elven goddess of pleasure, not Slaanesh. No proper Elf would worship Chaos.

>>52614428
>Wrong book. If you want to argue about the End Times, then get reading it. Don't you dare use your ignorance to slander fair Lileath.
If you want to argue about End Times, go to the Age of Sigmar thread.

>8th ED called.
Well that's what the caller ID is for, isn't it?

>>52614438
Will do as soon as you admit defeat and apologize to the Lady and beg her forgiveness.

>>52614428
>No proper Elf would worship Chaos.
Hi Gav.

Please stop writing everything but 40k. You're really bad at it.
Maybe 40k too.

-All Of Us

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>>52614452
>Will do as soon as you admit defeat and apologize to the Lady and beg her forgiveness.

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>>52614452
The Lady is not Lileath!

The Fey Enchantress is, because Isha is The Lady.

>>52614464
>Elves greatest enemies of Chaos
>Their willpower, pride, and sense of self are second to none
>have their own living gods who live among them and can be felt

>You : Elves should submit to Chaos guise!

Makes no sense, dawg. The same reason why the Elves won't choose Khorne over Khaine goes with why the Elves will never choose Slaanesh over their own goddess of pleasure. Or Tzeentch over the Magic goddess. Or Nurgle over Isha.

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What's a good introductory book to the WHF universe?

>>52614480
Isha is "Genocide Brets, my husband, to teach them manners" Ariel.

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>>52614452
I will not honor a witch that has none.

>>52614491
>Elves greatest enemies of Chaos
Morathi came before that.
>Their willpower, pride, and sense of self are second to none
Which is why the Cult of Pleasure is small, its made up of those who's arrogance is unmatched. Morathi genuinely believes she's Slaanesh's wife.
>have their own living gods who live among them and can be felt
They also had a living king, we saw how much it mattered to the ones who preferred purple to blue.

>>52614500
Its in the OP.

Unless you mean Black Library, in which case just start reading the Gotrek & Felix books in order.

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>>52614501
It fills the holy Chalice with moisture.

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>>52614522
What do you think was wrong with Ballaume?

>>52614513
Thanks! Yeah, I meant novel.

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>>52614544
His visage rendered the Chalice dry, his blade short and thin, and his breath was bad too.

>>52614563
G&F is the longest running Warhammer anything. It begins in earlier canon so there's a few minor things that were later retconned, but G&F is about as core to the heart of Warhammer as it gets and they interacted with every faction at some point.

The best were amazing, the worst simply okay.

Every Warhammer fan should read as many as they can.

Just to be clear here, Errata 11 was the last Errata, wasn't it?

>>52611232
Thanks a lot, anon. Helped me get the two .pdf:s that are referenced in the Errata and file them appropriately in my trove. Really helpful.

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>>52614575
Somehow, I find the chalice innuendo hilarious.

But has every King of Bretonnia been a Grail Knight? I am seriously wondering how one could fuck up if they managed to be good enough to get that sort of power. Grail Knights aren't portrayed as fucking up much.

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>>52614665
>Just to be clear here, Errata 11 was the last Errata, wasn't it?

Nevermind, found Errata v12, which I believe was the last one.

>>52613854
>before the End Times
Yes. Storm of Chaos was before the End Times, and the End Times itself is a different setting in which Storm of Chaos didn't happen. In WFRP3, Storm of Chaos hadn't happened yet, and neither had End Times, the same goes for 7th and most of 8th Ed.

The fact that Storm of Chaos hadn't happened yet doesn't mean that it's not part of the same continuity. The retcon of Storm of Chaos and the creation of the End Times/Age of Sigmar setting hadn't even happened yet.

Also, if you want to discuss End Times/Age of Sigmar, there's a general for that setting elsewhere.

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This thread now belongs to chameleoleeches. Stay out.

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>>52615171

So I love the Warhammer lore since I played back in high school, but as I've gotten older and more time poor the rules started to shit me to tears and don't even get me started on Skubhammer. I'm also one of those oddballs who enjoyed Epic: Armageddon far more than actual 28mm 40k.
So: is Warmaster any good? Or is there a better large scale fantasy/historical wargame that accommodates Warhammer's oddness and fluff/armies without too much effort?

>>52614891
Doesn't be a dumbass. I mean chronically before the End Times as in before Archaon invaded. So moron, SoC is not canon in the FFG RPGS.

>The fact that Storm of Chaos hadn't happened yet doesn't mean that it's not part of the same continuity.

Prove it then. I want you to bring me a statement from FFG or GW saying they considered SoC in thw riting of their RPGs and didn't just adopt 8th ED lore which as many here say is prequel to the End Times.

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>>52615447
>Doesn't be a dumbass. I mean chronically before the End Times as in before Archaon invaded.
I know what you mean, it's just that you're retarded.

>So moron, SoC is not canon in the FFG RPGS.

Of course it is. There's no reason to think otherwise. In Warhammer Fantasy, Storm of Chaos is canon. In the End Times/Age of Sigmar chronology, it may be otherwise, but there has still not been any End Times/Age of Sigmar RPG, and gods willing, there never will be.

>Prove it then.
I don't have to. End Times/Age of Sigmar does a good job of establishing itself as a separate setting all by itself.

>I want you to bring me a statement from FFG or GW
Haha, no. I don't have to bring you anything. Also, FFG or GW never said anything like this, and it's completely irrelevant whether they did or not.

Now kindly return to your containment thread. You have no place here. This is for Warhammer Fantasy, not End Times/Age of Sigmar, as established in the OP, and trolling is against the rules outside of /b/.

>>52607383

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>>52615171
>>52615424
I love the Gold Magister's assertion regarding the effects of the aethyr on the universe and how Chamon affects both body and soul, turning those touched into jews. Explains a lot about the Gold College, too.

>>52616247
>I know what you mean, it's just that you're retarded.

No, you don't.

>In Warhammer Fantasy, Storm of Chaos is canon.

No, it's not. Period.

>but there has still not been any End Times/Age of Sigmar RPG

Irrelevant.

>I don't have to. End Times/Age of Sigmar does a good job of establishing itself as a separate setting all by itself.

Nope, only in your head. So you utterly failed to present prof.

>Haha, no. I don't have to bring you anything. Also, FFG or GW never said anything like this, and it's completely irrelevant whether they did or not.

Again. failure to present proof. Reality does not bind to your will and sir you are wrong.

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>>52613471

If you ignore End Times it all fits together so neatly, just another reason to hate that toilet paper.

They only downside is that Vermintide is set during it.

>>52613773

Yeah but the Elves also think the moon is one of their gods and it's probably just a mundane astronomical body.

>>52617853
just by name
You could change the setting to a slightly previous period of time with the skaven insurgence not being the major one and little would change

>>52613773
>according to the Elves
Elves like pretty stories more than reality

>>52614004

We fucking Mass Fantasy 3 now.

>>52609298
>trope-breaking
Nigga warhammer fantasy is one of the most generic fantasy setting around, if anything it's trope defining and That's not a bad thing

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>>52617355
>No, it's not. Period.
Yup. But sure, whatever, think what you want. Just please do that thinking somewhere else, where it relates to the thread.

Until then, we'll just keep reporting and hiding your posts.

>failed to present prof.
We've been over this so many times there's really no point to it anymore, and I'm pretty sure you're the same shitposting troll as usual, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>52617853
>They only downside is that Vermintide is set during it.
Thankfully, Vermintide is made in such a way that it can be considered as set during pretty much any era. It's actually annoying that they set it in the End Times/Age of Sigmar setting, because there was really no reason for it, considering that there's even a major event in the fluff where the entire Empire was overrun by Skaven.

I believe that the "End Times" label was just something GW forced them to slap on there on principle. It's a tag and little else, thankfully irrelevant to the quality and setting of the game.

>>52615438

Well... Warmaster is generally considered pretty good. It was Priestley's pet project and he gave it a lot of attention and tried to make it the best game it could be. That style of command and control is how most of his games play, like Black Powder.

Kings of War plays quite similarly and I'm sure if he had still been involved in Fantasy after 2000 then that's probably the way Warhammer would have gone. KoW uses frontages instead of individual models, so you can play in any scale you want.

>>52618227
>Yup. But sure, whatever, think what you want. Just please do that thinking somewhere else, where it relates to the thread.

Facts are facts. And announcing reports is bannable, you know.

>We've been over this so many times there's really no point to it anymore

You never tried in the first place. Made no coherent arguments. Presented to proof for your claims. Only wishful thinking. I will take this as your losing statement.

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>>52618355

Christ, how long have you two been arguing for?

The fact of the matter is that End Times and Storm of Chaos are two separate time lines in which, pretty much right before each event, the world is identical.

Yes, ET was later and so technically cannon but nearly everyone in these threads prefers the Storm of Chaos... or at the very least ignores ET. So if you can't handle that then I would change the topic.

What GW says is cannon doesn't really mean much to us anymore.

>>52614350
blue
stone trolls a best
fuck everything else

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>>52618355
>You never tried in the first place. Made no coherent arguments. Presented to proof for your claims.

Been there, done that. Like talking to a rock. I can only hope you actually get suspended at some point so that we can get some peace and quiet.

Reminder that a bunch of basement dwelling grongards on a Syrian folk music forum have absolutely no control over what is canon and what isn't. End times is fully, 100% undeniably canon and OP only says avoid it because it triggers the manbabbys who think "muh feelings" and "muh head canon" dictate what others can talk about. This is the containment thread where delusional cucks will hide because they can't face the reality that end times happened and AoS is the chronological continuation of it.

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>>52618510

Reminder that nobody gives a fuck what is cannon anymore.

> Cucks

I dunno'.. you're the ones who still slurp GW's semen.

We were having such an interesting discussion about Araby and Tomb Kings before you Age of Shillmar's showed up.

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>>52618416
>Yes, ET was later and so technically cannon but nearly everyone in these threads prefers the Storm of Chaos.

Canonicity is determined by setting and source origin, not public opinion. The fact is that Warhammer Fantasy and End Times/Age of Sigmar constitutes different settings because of their mutual exclusivity in terms of actual substance, from actual events to appeal to themes and to the metaphysics of the universes.

From that perspective, it's irrelevant when whatever was created before or after whichever, and whatever appeals to authority argumentative fallacies can be made ("But muh GW said..." or "But muh FFG didn't specify..."), because the settings themselves don't relate to eachother on any fundamental levels anymore. It's much like comparing Warcraft with Starcraft, albeit with a more complicated past due to a previously shared narrative origin.

We know what was or is canon, but arguing what is canon is a dead end, but it's also completely beside the point; for all intents and purposes, they're different settings, so the canon of End Times/Age of Sigmar doesn't concern the canon of Warhammer Fantasy.

>>52618576
>We were having such an interesting discussion about Araby and Tomb Kings before you Age of Shillmar's showed up.

Just report and move on, there's really no point to it. Also, I don't think there's a plural to the age of shillmars, it's always just the same guy with the same style and the same tired nonsense, and then when people tell him to gtfo, the "other" posts start randomly showing up. He's just a samefag shill with no life that gets off on trolling.

>>52608686
I'm sorry but more people prefer Skirmish games and smaller forces, I don't believe either game is worse or better than the other but WHFB simply was not popular and it was loosing money, AOS is popular.

>>52618656

Debatable... GW's sales continue to drop year on year so something isn't working.

Some of this just can't be helped though, GW isn't the big fish in the small pond anymore.

>>52618576
Age of sigmar is off topic, I agree, but I'm not talking about that. saying end times is not canon and a different universe is objectively wrong, no matter how much you hate it. That is all. If pointing this out is "trash outside of b" then you guys are no better than tumblr

>>52618469
Don't bullshit. You just up lying now like a coward.

>>52618416
If he won't stop then I won't and he is too prideful to sop.

>>52618603
Nope, GW decides what's canon since it's their setting. The rest of your post is retarded drivel of delusional bastard.

GW said that WHFB, ET, and AoS are a part of one connected universe and what happened to them is canon to each other. So that's that and no point of being weasel will change that.

>>52618692

I don't care what GW say is cannon, End Times is shit... I prefer SoC, I guess they'll have to send the Witch Hunters round to get me.

who has the best assassin, skaven or dark elves? who could assassinate a general out at a public place in plain view better?

>>52618748
If you don't like endtines, fine. If you want to use the SoC timeline for your games or when you're imagining shit in your head, fine, no one is going to stop you. If you want to use headcanon in your games, fine, absolutely nothing wrong with that. But you don't get to decide what is and isn't canon to the setting, that's it. If people could just say " don't talk about endtimes because I don't like it" there would be no argument. But saying it isn't canon is a lie and you know it

>>52618756
Dark Elves. The Dark Elf version has higher WS, BS, I and Ld while also having Murderous Prowess and more potent poisons.

>>52618756
If he job requires it, Dark elf assasins will masquerade as trusted friends and allies of their intended victims for decades, even centuries, going as far as to get jobs, get married and fight alongside them. They could easily kill in broad daylight when least expected.

It's hard for a cloaked rat to achieve the same thing, but they are much better at hiding and getting into tight spaces

>>52618808

Okay it's cannon.

I should probably warn you though, despite it being cannon nearly everyone in here hates ET and so you opinions won't go very far because everyone knows you have shit taste.

So don't get rustled.

>>52618903
it's canon. Say it with me. canon. Cannon is a projectile weapon that uses gunpower.

>>52618951

Sorry.

Phonetically though they sound the same so saying it wouldn't help.

>>52618857
that's dedication

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>>52612421

You've inspired me to start my own Tomb Kings army anon.

I'll probably go for archers and chariots but those skellies look better than I imagined for £1 a model.

>>52619785

yeah mantics undead models are some of their best.

the price point is hard to argue with too.

you can probably get a discount on that as well if you shop around.

apparently their ushabti models are good as well if you change up their weapons.

>>52618692
Different name, different game.

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Hey does anyone know where you can get Empire Free Company in box? I realized recently GW stopped selling them, and Ebay only has shittly painted ones that are already assembled. I want to use them to make a Mordenheim group.

>>52618756
ogres

fact: you've never seen one and none lives to tell a tale about their feats

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>>52618951
Am I doing it right?

Shit, I swear I remembered it differently

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>>52620556
Can't argue against that

>>52620487

Second hand is your only option now unfortunately.

I think Empire archers have some interesting stuff in the box though.

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>>52620630
>yfw Maneaters are master assassins that nobody would ever suspect because their bumbling lovable retard cover is so good

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Is anyone a bit shocked that GW didn't retcon Heinrich Kemmler's first name to something else? It's the kind of dark tongue-in-cheek that new GW hates.

>>52621266

I'm going to apologise in advance for how big that image is.

Is Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2E better than Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3E?

>>52605383
I'm looking at the rules for runes and it appears to have been written as if the rules for hit locations aren't being used and all armor counts as full armor. So, how does that interact with the system where hit locations are used? Could someone have Runes of Adamant inscribed on all 5 pieces of both their mail and plate armor to gain a +100% bonus?

>>52621266
He's usually just known as 'the Lichemaster' anyway, or Kemmler if he's referred to by his name at all, so I think they can just awkwardly slide past it.

I'm just surprised by how close the pronunciation is to Hemmler, as shown in TW:W. I assumed they would've made it something like Kemm-leer or Keem-ler.

>>52621339
That seems to be what's considered true overall, yes.

>>52619785
If you wanted to save even more money, go for the standard skellies and convert the shields. They're much cheaper than the Empire of Dust undead, and while their kit looks a bit more empire-ish, with the right paintjob they'd work great.

Hell, you can buy them from Ebay for less than $40 for 40 right now. A hell of a deal. Converting the stock skeletons with different shields might be a bit hard, though, as they have the shields as parts of the torsos. Workable though.

And I cant say I care for the EoD archers. Might just be the paintjob though.

>>52621266
Nope.

They just renamed him Necromancer anyway.

>>52618808
>But you don't get to decide what is and isn't canon to the setting

Exactly. The issue is that it's separate settings. What is canon for each is completely moot, as is who decides it. And ultimately, we as a collective decides what is canon anyway, not even GW, no matter whether they happen to "own" some intellectual property on a file somewhere or not.

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>>52621468

I think it's the paintjob, until other anon posted some images I'd written them off. But when you look at them bare they look pretty good.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152495470628?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

damn son im tempted. hold me back /tg/

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>>52621579

That's a pretty good deal, depends how much the other guy wants it. £100 to £120 is bargain.

>>52621615

its like I dont even like skaven but all those multi-part non Island of blood models are tempting me something fierce.

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>>52618692
>saying end times is not canon
This would be wrong. It is canon. Nobody disputes that. You're battling windmills and fighting strawmen.

>and a different universe
This is entirely correct. It is not the same universe. They are operating under mutually exclusive assumptions and themes. The vast majority of End Times is even subtitled "End Times" to differentiate it.

This is not terribly hard to grasp. C'mon, Anon, don't be so flamboyantly autistic. Is it really that hard to let it go and fuck off back to your own End Times/Age of Sigmar thread where you can slurp the cum of GW forever and ever?

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>>52621266
>Heinrich Kemmler
Oh. My. God. I have never noticed that until I actually pronounced it, trying to figure out what you were on about. Fucking hell. It's entirely possible that just flew under the radar of GW, because there's no fucking way the cucks of GW would let that fly today.

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>>52621679

Psst, hey kid.

Want to raise some skeletons and attack Frugelhofen?

>>52621679
>I have never noticed that until I actually pronounced it
I still don't get it.

>>52621771
>>52621747

>>52621574
Ah, yeah, never seen them bare. Another case of Mantic technically skilled painters without a grasp of the idea that there is such as thing as "too much blue."

Doing the test model now for the aforementioned skellie block. Decided on dark red and bronze, after one of the studio armies from the first TK book.

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>>52621747
Only if it involved raising some rune-stones, some chanting, and mass deportations of the Skaven that are no doubt hanging out in the sewers and warrens.

>>52621830

It's too much edge highlighting, all the contrast makes it too hard to pick any subtle detail out.

>>52614427
is that a hawk with arms shooting a little bow?

>>52606036
Yeah they eventually became centigors when they wanted to push beastmen as their own army. But they're the same things basically.

>>52622546

its also that the blue drowns out any of the half assed colours on the model.

At least if youre trying to go bright with it paint the rest of the model in bright colours.

the blue eyes do not help either.

and the basing is just lazy. i understand theyre trying to show off their new multibases but thats not the correct way to do it.

>>52607628

They could just say that they are a Shadow Warrior from Ulthuan.

Is there a WFRP trove?

>>52608594
what an interesting question

time to die

>>52611710
those are quite cool. ushabti/necsphinx replacements?

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>>52623095
Ushabti yes, sphinx no. The former aren't too bad, and as has been discussed already, it's mostly the paintjob holding them back. I think they'd look great with an onyx 'skin' color, personally.

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>>52607628
it's not like anyone but a High Elf could actually tell a Dark Elf from a High Elf. Granted they aren't wearing gear that has [Made in Hag Graef] stamped onto it, Druchii and Asur have very little visual differences beyond the hair and teint, and the most striking difference are the Dialects of Eltharin they speak, which Old Worlders probably can't tell apart.

A Dark Elf posing as just an "Elf" in the Old World, maybe he shipwrecked on the Estalian shore and has been acting the part of an Asur Merchant, or got captured during a raid and escaped.

There's endless posibilities if you have imagination.

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>>52623188

> Beyond the hair and taint.

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>>52623279
even so, Naggarondi and Nagarythi are basically the same ethnicity. Alith Anar was able to blend into Dark Elven society perfectly fine.

A Druchii dressed like any Elf wouldn't be obvious to anyone. There are Asur with Pale skin and black hair too, just like there are Druchii with light hair colours.

>>52621679
it only just clicked for me too

>>52621679
So the Karl Franz death camp memes weren't far off from the truth?

>>52623904
>is elected on a narrow majority of counts
>empire is conveniently attacked right afterwards so Karl has to be granted emergency powers and make all his political enemies dissapear
what do you think, anon?

>inb4 muh Toddbringer
investigate the truth about the old world market square attack, no doomdiver hit Watchtower 7, Lampoil can't melt stone pillars.

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>>52624031

> TFW Imperial Engineer with Hochland long rifle was on the grassy knoll.

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I'm a war-gamer over RPGer but I thought I'd point out GW has licenced WFRP to a place called Cubicle7.

Can any of you RPGers say if they are any good? What can we expect from them?

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?3810-Games-Workshop-Concluding-Deal-For-Licensing-Rights-To-Warhammer-Fantasy-Roleplay