/btg/ Battletech General!

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First for Light 'Mechs with LRMs.

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>>52614758
Seconding

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>>52614758
>>52614847
COME HERE YOU LITTLE SHITS I'LL FUCK YOU UP

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Valks for life

>>52614758
I made a factory variant of the Commando years ago where it looked like a squashed Bushwhacker. It has an LRM-5 in each arm, one ton of ammo between them, and three MLs with one each in the torso sections. Later it would gain FF armor and DHS as needed.
That model was produced on and off until it because a regular sight in a few campaigns.

Somehow I missed you.

My players are going to be fighting on a Lyran world, where a Democracy Now type group called the Freedom Party are attempting to unseat the Archon-loyal government.

I'm interested in a proper German spelling of Freedom Party, as well as what a German language nickname or abbreviation for such a group could be (for example I've read Nazi came from Nationalsozialist and Sozi from Sozialdemokrat).

>>52614847
Yuck, Bulls...

Just kidding. That thing some of you anons were saying about the Taurians building Toro and Talos lines and using the Commando and Hatchetman as cover stories actually makes a lot of sense. There's even a fair bit of commonality in weapons, weight and roles!

>>52615726
Freiheitliche Partei (planet Name), shortened to "Freiheitliche".

It's what the Nazi remnant party in Austria is called.

>>52614738
That is one sweet helmet.

>>52615726
Meant for
>>52576584

>>52615760
Do they have a nickname?

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Reporting for duty.

>>52615824
i loved this mech.

first time i used it was when i used a star of them vs a Marauder II.. drove my opponent crazy

>>52614738
Where is that screenshot from? I get the feeling I've seen it somewhere before.

>>52616580
I don't know but you can tell it's a Kurita designed mech because the radar is behind your shoulder where the pilot can't fucking see it.

>>52615806
"Blues" or "Blaue" as that's their party's chosen colour.

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>>52615824

There is a different illustration in the old Jade Falcon sourcebook.

>>52616907
I dig the way this picture makes even a dinky second-line throwaway fire support mech look menacing.

>>52615113
Well, it's actually balancing by BV. We're limited to 200 or less Tons, but having less BV means you get better pilots. If I wanted to, and had the models to do so, I could bring 1 Hatchetman and 3 Urbanmechs. My mechs would probably suck by the pilots would be god-like with their skills.

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>>52615386
Can't see me!

>>52615824
>>52615824
Wish I could remember where it was, but I could have sworn there was some bit of fluff somewhere that said baboons could travel in a somewhat quadrupedal mode too.

>>52617885
I don't think so, Mandrill is the one who can walk on the 4 members

>>52617885
That's the original Red Devil fluff. Also the Mandrill I think.

This is for Xotl, regarding your [RESEARCHING] post in the rules forum

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=53891.new;topicseen#new

[basically some typos on CO - and the dreaded 2.2 multiplier on Chaos Campaign]
This 2.2 multiplier appeared in Total Chaos and was by mistake (as far as i can tell) duplicated in Era Report 3145 and CO

You might find this relevant

The example given for determining Technology Rating is the old, *old* system that had a force with over 50% upgraded 'Mechs, including Clan with only a "D" Tech Rating.
The last four paragraphs of the example should probably be replaced with something along the lines of:
Inner Sphere Standard Rules units = (6/12) x 100 = 50 percent
Clan Standard Rules units = (2/12) x 100 = 16.67 x 2.0 = 33.34 percent
Added together, the total percentage of units with Standard Rules Inner Sphere/ Clan technology is this 83.34 percent (rounding down to 83 percent).

[The unit therefore has an 83-point Equipment Rating. Comparing the 83 points against the Equipment Rating Table results in a B Equipment Rating. ]

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=53442.0 (reply 22)

and also see

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=20265.msg1266756#msg1266756 (reply 34)

>>52616884
If I may, one more? How would you say something like "Freedom Party Guard(s)"?

For the militant wing of the party.

>>52618378
You're going full Turtledove. Never go full Turtledove. Next you'll be telling me we've got to start reducing somebody's population.

>>52618431
Isn't that the sad and sorry truth?

>>52618431
>>52618446
>tfw Featherston did nothing wrong

>>52617975

Awesome. It turns out we just brought a guy onto the rules team that's familiar with this ruleset, so I'm actually hopeful of getting a response. However, I'll add this info for him to make sure the has the full picture. Thanks!

>>52618378
Today? They'd probably go with "Freiheitliche Heimwehr", as in "Freedom party home guards"

>>52617885
You're probably thinking of the original 3055 text, which says something about be able to hunch over to reduce its silhouette.

>>52618500
Well I mean, he did order the invasion of Pittsburgh, which was a monumental cockup. And y'know, being a Hitler analogue who is probably worse than the original because fuck subtlety.

>>52618579
Also why it has Narrow/Low Profile, because THE MAN (Xotl) wouldn't let me make a quirk that only two mechs would probably ever have to let it knuckle walk.

I can't seem to RS 3145U in the troves. I only find RD 3145NTNU. Is it just me, or is it really missing?

>>52618797
You don't need that file if you download every faction 3145 TRO

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>http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57083.msg1312853#msg1312853

>minis that have previously been painted in different faction colors will bring poor luck, so I don't want to bring an Awesome.

Holy shit.

>>52619018
Friendly reminder every Battletech player is autistic

>>52619018
You know, I don't think I've ever met a person with actual autism who's even half as autismal as the people on the OF

>>52619152
Well there was that one time at a game store... This guy was trying to get me to join his campaign that featured time-traveling fights against Borg-like bad guys. He was having trouble taking no for an answer despite my pointing out that I lived four hours away and was just visiting.

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>>52618431
>Next you'll be telling me we've got to start reducing somebody's population.

Or that we've recently *increased* the chocolate ration from 7 grams to 9 grams ...

well, that's the thing. Unless I am not missing something obvious I can only find the RS3145NTNU

>>52617125

They all look menacing from the ground as a foot soldier.

>>52619387
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK3pbyP-57A

>>52621185
>hitler being spot-on about the clans

>>52618547
Again, thank you.

>>52618595
That is something I miss about Turtledove's books. They flanderized themselves and lost all subtlety by the end.
The Worldwar and Great War series were good, and I was surprised how enjoyable his Days of Infamy duology was.

>>52621275
Hitler is always right.

>>52621292
The War that Came Early started off okay, but just fizzled, possibly because it would have worked better as a trilogy than 5 or 6 books. I liked American Empire because it manages to keep the spark of Great War for a good while. Aside from isolated moments of the WWII books, I like to think the series ends with Victorious Opposition

>>52621473
I agree. I will say I enjoyed VO a bunch. It had a load of fun moments, and it was interesting to catch glimpses of how the world was different, and Featherston's administration before the inevitable WWII started.

>>52620473
Yeah that's what I meant. Even twink mechs like a Hornet or whatever are going to look imposing in real life but a lot of times the art, particularly TRO drawings without background or anything, don't convey that. The scale and perspective is usually just like I'm a giant mech-sized person looking at another person who happens to be very blocky.

>>52622033

Yeah. I bet a flea in a night battle when it's fucking blown up your barracks and hit your fuel depot, standing there with the fire behind it, looks menacing as fuck.

>>52621380
Why don't you follow him and kill yourself?

>>52622246
>muh feelies

Stop trying to out-edge the nazi

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>>52622155

Well, I guess it's no worse than a lot of original FASA art. I'm not particularly good at mechanical designs when I can't see them.

I seriously need to lay off the drugs.

I'm interested in making a pre-Jihad House Liao force.

Looking for opinions on some of their homegrown designs from the lead up years. TRO 3055 has the Snake, Huron Warrior and Thunder, I believe. Anyone here have much experience with them?

TRO 3058 doesn't seem to have any original Liao designs (unless I missed it) but it does have the Regulator, Po and Zhukov tanks. IIRC the latter two have a reputation for being rather solid. Would that be accurate?

And then TRO 3060 introduces a slew of new Liao designs with the Han touch. I don't expect a rundown of everything but I'd be interested in knowing what /btg/ thinks of some of them. Which are good and which are garbage?

I have familiarity with the old Liao trinity of standbys, the Vindicator, Raven and Cataphract.

>>52623422

Meh, maybe I'll come back and redo that one instead of shitting it out in like 30~45 minutes.

>>52623611

3058 has a few recovered designs for the Cappies and some imports. They get the IS Omnis, some like the Blackjack and Sunder built at home, and also the Spector, Devastator, and Pillager.

I'd pick either Gausswall or Stealth, or Stealth Gausswall.

Men Shen, Ti T'sang, Jinggau, Pillager/Yu Huang has worked well in the past when I've had to go Cappie.

>>52624914
Jinngau is one of my favorite cav mechs. BJO's are solid, and I like the Avatar that mounts an ERPPC and LB20-X quite a bit too.

Spriteanon, and other assorted MegaMek users, be advised that the newest MegaMek release has decided to bundle all the sprites into one huge .png file named mechs_atlas. Literally, it's 6 mb and 840x20232.

>>52626115
What the fuck? Why did they think this was a good idea?

>>52626115
Goddamnit, did someone from GSC join the dev team and decide that throwing a giant fucking sprite together with X-Y and offset coordinates tied to each item, a la STALKER?

Seriously, this is the most retarded decision ever. This stopped being a good idea in the 90s back when disk space was at a premium.

>>52626115

what the fuck. Why do they go out of their way to make work, instead of fixing the shit they've already broken.

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>>52626115
does it still support extras? because that shit is fucking retarded.

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>>52623611
>TRO 3055 has the Snake, Huron Warrior and Thunder, I believe. Anyone here have much experience with them?
Snake - It's a sawed-off Centurion, and a really good complement for the Vindies. Load two tons of buck and it's hellacious for light-hunting, and it's a pretty good breacher and VTOL control unit. The BA can't hit you if the take the rotors off their Karnovs, after all.

>Huron Warrior
It's an Enforcer-equivalent. Again, it works well with the Snake and Vindies, and it has excellent range.

>Wraith
Brutal backstabber and one of the best 'Mechs in the TRO.

>Thunder
It's a very solid brawler and fringe minelayer, but even as a 5/8 it can have difficulty deploying its weapons effectively. The -2L is better at it, but still has problems getting into range. Stealth helps it but the heat is still a problem.

>>52623611
>the latter two have a reputation for being rather solid. Would that be accurate?
Yup. The Regulator is pretty decent as a skirmisher.

>>52626357
Yeah, judging by the custom Mad Cat and Masakari sprites I've got. Plus for whatever reason the Tenshi and Warhammer IIC are separate.

>>52626421
Further note, they've added Pod and Fixed equipment to omnis now, so if you have any omnis from SSW, prepare to go in and redo them in MML, otherwise your omnis are gonna have fixed gear.

>>52626511
As if you needed another reason to ditch the orphanage fire that is SSW...

>>52626540
It's vastly more user friendly than MML, and does omnis in way that isn't just a shitty clone of HMP. But sure, orphanage fire, because who likes being able to smartly allocate equipment and armor?

>>52626540
Shut your whore mouth

>>52626581
If you think that's bad UI, you're likely making your first steps onto the internet, kiddo.

>>52626660
CRY SOME MORE

>>52626581
>It's vastly more user friendly than MML
a blindfolded virgin eating pussy probably has more user-friendlyness going than MML, that isn't saying much

>>52618941

Help the new guy here. I am talking about the Record Sheets. I want 3145U (not 3145NTNU exists in the troves)

How does TRO come into the question? (honest question)

>>52623845
It's a decent rough sketch, I'd like to see what you'd make from it.

>>52628508
The faction TROs have the record sheets in them. This is why nobody wanted the merged version, except for the few pages in the NTNU section.

>>52626711
You seem angry. Are you the guy who broke the functionality in the new MM release?

>>52614847
I was amazed when I saw the TR-A-6 in TRO3075. For introtech, that thing is just disgustingly good.

>>52628992

Well, I'm a traditional artist, not digital. Digital is slow, painful, and evil... unless we're talking about using one of those Microsoft Surface Studios. Holy shit, all my stuff transfers right over onto it. I kept trying to wipe away eraser dust from the screen at the store.

I'll probably revisit it with water color. But it'll have to be completely redrawn. Sometime in the future when I'm not busy with work.

>>52626367
Wraith is a Marik design.

>>52629037
Yes, but my "record sheets" folder seems lacking now..

>>52630796

Devastator is a Feddie design.

Both are on the MUL for the Cappies.

>>52631659
The question was about TRO mechs. Cappies have access to a bunch of 50s FWL mechs because of their alliance. Doesn't make them their designs.

>>52631162
You can :

>buy the product
>manually extract the record sheets from the TROs and create your own file
>accept your fate

>>52618797
>>52631162

http://www.mediafire.com/file/dgxa3rgvt2366a1/BattleTech_RS217_-_Record_Sheets_3145_Unabridged.pdf

>>52629647
Yeah, smol griffin really is an excellent light trooper

>>52630796
>>52632338
>Wraith is a Marik design.
The Caps bought a shitload of them, and there's no reason not to put one of the better designs in the TRO in a list of "shit, what do?" 'Mech reviews for a newbie if they don't know they can use it.

>>52633652
It's important to be clear when the anon specifically said >>52623611
>Looking for opinions on some of their homegrown designs

Sounds like he's interested in their own homemade stuff.

>>52623611
Adding to previous responses:
I've had great success with the Lao Hu, it's a pretty nasty brawler in it's initial config. The gauss one is a bit better at ranging, but they're all decent at minimum.
The Sha Yu is a decent fire support mech, but you might want to strip the MLs and put in more heat sinks.
The Pillager is a great standby for assaults, in pretty much every variant.
The Jinggau is effective, if not amazing, and people don't usually know what the fuck it is.
There's also the Emperor -6L, which is pretty effective at range.

>>52633652
>>52633700
As the original question-asking player, yes I technically meant Liao-built gear. But that isn't to say I don't appreciate input with other mechs available to them.

>>52624914
>>52626367
>>52633729
Thank you guys. It can sometimes be a leap between seeing something written as good in a TRO and actually deploying it TT, so getting these takes on different mechs can be very useful.

>>52633729
Roughly when do the Cappies get the Pillager and Emperor back? Late 3050s?
And IIRC isn't one built in the rump Confederation and the other on St. Ives?

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>>52633758
Note that the Sha Yu is hot as fucking balls stock, if you've got stealth armor on.

Here's a force I've had great success with:
A mixed heavy lance of the various 5/8s (Jinggau, Lao Hu, Thunder in whatever config
tickles your fancy) with a pair of heavy tanks, and a lance with a pair of gauss assaults with a pair of Sha Yu's, accompanied by a pair of regulators providing fire support. I typically run the heavy lance ahead through cover while covering them with the fire support lance, and then advance the assaults after the heavies tie up the enemy. Works pretty well in my experience.
>>52633774
I believe they get the base designs in late 3050s and their specific variants in the mid 60's, but don't quote me on that. Also the Emperor is a big enough deal to the cappies that Sun Tzu used one, so even though it's not a design they originated, it's in heavy use.

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So after seeing the conversation about how fluff-wise it would have been interesting (and made sense in a way) to have the Hatchetman and Commando mistakes with the Concordat actually be covers for them rebuilding the Toro and Talos lines, it's gotten me interested in those latter two mechs.

Tech-wise, is there anything on the Toro or Talos that couldn't be reproduced in 3025? I'm not thinking so but I'd like a second opinion. Right now I'm simply looking at the Toro in MML and thinking about alternate variants. I'm playing with adding SRMs to it, sort of like the Panther, and considering either swapping out one LRM5 for an SRM4 or both LRM5s for SRM4s.

Thoughts?

>>52633881
>Tech-wise, is there anything on the Toro or Talos that couldn't be reproduced in 3025?
No they both use standard IntroTech, but the Talos was pulled from production during the Reunification War, and the Toro was systematically destroyed. The Talos you might find an ancient First Succession War vintage chassis lying around, but it'd be jury-rigged to hell and back. The Toro wouldn't have any examples and the Taurians never put either back into production.

>>52633881
I did a 3050s version that stripped out the LRMs for three Streak SRM 2s. It's a fun little creature,

>>52633774
Big MAC made the Emperor in late 3057 and they get the Pillager in the St Ives War in 61.

>>52623611
If you count St. Ives, the Helios is also homegrown.
It's a bit shit though, since it has pretty weak armor and it's slow for it's weight. It does have a decent armament, but I'd say it's thoroughly mediocre.

>>52633758
Giving the Caps Devastators is pure memery. They have that because Barton took one home in 3044 in one of the best scenario books FASA ever wrote. It in no way indicates they have them in any sort of numbers.

>>52633962
Well the Toro came back in the Jihad, apparently. You might not have seen the discussion regarding them a while ago, but this is purely a hypothetical type question not meant to be mistaken for a canon claim or whatever. Just some anons were talking about how it would have been neat if the Hatchetman/Commando mistake had been instead an IC piece of Concordat misinformation to conceal the reproduction of the Toro and Talos. Someone else pointed out the Talos used an AC10 like the Hatchetman so it would kinda work.

>>52633976
That does sound like it wouldn't be half bad to try.

>>52634029
The Devastator's availability in general is memery.
Steiner makes it but they just sell them to Davion IIRC for some fucking reason.

>>52634059
>for some fucking reason.
Because the Davions were the ones who own the blueprints and redeveloped the design. They also made their own factory for them in later years.

>>52634097
What are they going to do if they kept them, sue?
That didn't work with the targeting computer tech either.

>>52634035
I probably did. I tune out a lot of the TC talk because it's invariably about the Toro and how great it is.

>>52634029
>>52634059
Purely anecdotal but I did once see a guy use a Devastator in a FWL force. Every mech he had but it was built in the FWL. His opponent, a Davion player, for whatever reason autistically sperged about it the whole time. When the Devastator headcapped one of his heavies, the Davion player went on a rant about how it shouldn't have happened because a FWL force should never have one.

I haven't encountered the "autistic players" thing that much so it sticks out in my memory.

>>52634127
Davion players get upset when other factions have nice things.

>>52634112
>I tune out a lot of the TC talk because it's invariably about the Toro and how great it is.
I must tune it out too because this is news to me.

>>52633881
I used a modified Talos in an introtech game. Swapped out one of its LRM 5's for two medium lasers. It's nothing hot but if you're doing one-off periphery games it fits in.

>>52634107
Hey, the Lyrans tried that with the Light Engine tech and lots of factories have to deal with licensing issues in the 3060's. People care about that sort of thing in universe enough that it's not totally ignored.

Besides, Davions should have them when they developed it and the thing was in production for several years before Melissa's Steiner's death and the Lyran split. Then before those numbers went away, they built their own factory on Augusta.

>>52633962
For what it's worth, it's said that after the end of the SL, there was serious debate in the TC about rebuilding a factory for the Toro or just sticking with Bugs that in canon went for the bugs, but in an AU could have just as easiest gone the other way, for all toro all the time.
I think it wouldn't make terribly much sense for those factories to be new-builds in the 20s, instead I'd just call it the ComStar guy being a moron who doesn't read his mech recognition guide and made some very bad guesses based on ex-lyran mercs and mechs he didn't recognize

>>52633881
>>52633976
I've always liked the Talos, it makes a nice counterpart to the Centurion and Vindicator in it's neighboring states, a nice fluffy but not cheesy trooper

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Can I turn off simultaneous firing in Megamek? I want to make each unit fire after the other, just like moving works in a movement phase.

>>52635066
Default should be off. You can change it in game options.

>>52635374
Default is that all units fire simultaneous, I mean that the damage is added up all at once in one window. I wanted to try more classical turn-based way. Where one unit fires and inflicts damage on the target, than the next unit and so on(like in X-com for example).

There is a option for simultaneous firing in the menu. But it only turns of arrows showing where each unit shoots.

>>52635608
Battletech fire has always been resolved simultaneously, going back to 1984.

>>52635608
Damage resolution is simultaneous because combat happens in a 10 second window.

>>52635608
That's kind of a fundamental part of the battletech system and can't really be turned off

>>52633881
>Tech-wise, is there anything on the Toro or Talos that couldn't be reproduced in 3025?

Only fluff. The Talos actually did survive in small numbers through the first and second succession wars, but by that point was a 250+ year old chassis that was simply outpreformed by other units. The Toro was systematically hunted down by the SLDF and the Taurians would have been hard-pressed to reassemble it afterwards, but if any society would resurrect an exterminated chassis as a giant middle finger the Taurians are at the front of the line.

I do hope the Calderon Protectorate does.

>>52636031
>I do hope the Calderon Protectorate does.
I believe both halves, colemann'd and not, of the TC brought back the primitive toro in the jihad, and upgraded to the classic model afterwords

>>52636031
>Calderon Protectorate
Yuck, I forgot about that. Here's hoping we get a Calderon Restoration, if that's what it takes due to the magic of family names, and a reunited Concordat.

>>52636031
>but if any society would resurrect an exterminated chassis as a giant middle finger the Taurians are at the front of the line.
Doesn't the Toro fluff say they had a major national debate about exactly that during the first succession war?

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>>52636690
Pretty much, yes. This is simply idle AU chatter.

>>52635608

Oh god. You're not that retard from reddit who kept rambling about how Battletech should be more like X-Com, are you?

If so, please, kindly remove yourself in any way you choose.

>>52636612
>hating the Calderon Protectorate
Why? It's a haven for what's left of the not-retarded TC. Now, mind you, the TC going full XIN TARD was stupid, but at least someone was kind enough to salvage what was good about the faction instead of wrecking everything. Count your goddamn blessings.

>>52638019
When it's torn in two with the core of it wasted all the Protectorate serves as is a twist of the knife reminder of how shit things went. Plus it's a continuation of the "magic last names" thing. No blessings about any of it.

>>52637952
If it's the guy bitching about x-com, it's probably the same guy bitching about how battletech needs to throw out everything and start over, and make it out to be an X-Wing clone.

>>52637952
Was someone doing that? I'll admit to loving both of them, but they're quite different games. While I'd enjoy a mech game that plays like XCOM, this isn't gonna be it.

>>52638713
The battletech reddit is dumber than the OF, and full of shitposting that makes VroomVroom look like high art.

>>52639586

It has its high and lows.

Mech Thursday is its high.

>>52636531

... thats what I get for believing the MUL...

>>52642445

It doesn't matter if you believe it. The MUL is a fully canon source, regardless of other source material.

>>52642445
Nobody made them circa 3075. By 3080, Taurians made the primitive on Illushin (Their famous space marine training system) and Jamestown

Calderons made the primitive on Diik

Canopians made the primitive on Booker

Filvelt made the primitive on Filtvelt


The normal one is never brought back into production. Even all the Toro mentions in Dark Age material are of the primitive version. It's 100% retrotech.

>>52642839
ok

>>52643130
Glorious.

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>>52642670
>It doesn't matter if you believe it. The MUL is a fully canon source, regardless of other source material.
Albeit one with, ahem, liberal interpretations of canon sources and dozens if not hundreds of miscategorizations, holes, and minor fuckups. Because it's still basically three guys keeping up an excel spreadsheet in their spare time, and getting feedback from the rest of us and (occasionally) the writers.

Which is to say, better fact-checked than most of CGL's print products, but far from the most authoritative source...

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>>52643130
Outstanding.

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>>52643130

Out-fucking-standing.

>>52633273
>http://www.mediafire.com/file/dgxa3rgvt2366a1/BattleTech_RS217_-_Record_Sheets_3145_Unabridged.pdf


Thanks a lot anon!
(was this in the troves and I just missed it?)

>>52633029
or ask here just like I did and get a helpful response (which I did).

>>52643130
Where'd you get that?

The edited 3d models of the FD marauder and battlemaster really pique my interest.

>>52645958
Dunno, uploaded it from PC. It is possible that it was from some other source, unavailable now

>>52643392
>Which is to say, better fact-checked than most of CGL's print products, but far from the most authoritative source

Then there is no authoritative source, the argument is moot, and using the MUL still ends up being the right choice.

>>52647422
Both of them are probably from Mechwarrior Online.

When are autocannons better than energy weapons?

It feels like anything with AC2s or AC5s can be swapped out for lasers with additional heat sinks or armor for a net gain.

And even AC10s seem like they're better to swap out for PPCs and more heat sinks or armor.

When is the right time to use ACs?

>>52649483
>When are autocannons better than energy weapons?

On tanks.

>>52649483
Well if you want a medium to close range brawler and heat's an issue like in grogtech the AC10 is a good.

If range isn't an issue and it can fit an AC10, you only need to make 2t extra room for the AC20. Has the same range bracketing as SRMs and Medium Lasers and packs a hell of a punch. It'll swat bugs in a torso hit quite often and on a lot of mechs it'll bring a torso or limb down to internals immediately.

>>52649483

Never. Autocannons weren't a mistake, but the way they're statted certainly was. Even on vehicles, missiles are better (with the one possible exception being the AC/20, simply because of the single-location damage amount).

NEA had a good AC fix, but he didn't really go far enough. An AC2 shouldn't be more than 2.5 tons and 1 crit, and an AC5 shouldn't be more than 4 tons and 2 crits. AC20 should top out at about 10 tons and 5 crits (it has a double whammy compared to the LRM20 because it's short ranged AND has to be mounted on something heavy and therefore slow, which means it's less likely to actually get into range in the first place; see also: Hunchback) and you can fill the AC10 into the middle somewhere.

>>52649483
When it's a Lbx-10 or any form of AC/20

>>52649107
The base models are, but as you can see they've been edited.

The marauder has its autocannon shifted onto the CT like the Glaug pod, along with a pair of sensor antennae on it's "jaw." It's thigs seem to have been resized as well.

Then the battlemaster has been narrowed, it's cockpit enlarged and heightened, and the SRM pod has been flipped to a vertical position compared to the base MWO model.

I like em.

>>52649638
10 ton AC/20s seems a bit too light IMO. honestly it and the 10 really only need to loose about one ton to be more balanced

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>>52649483
>When are autocannons better than energy weapons?
Edge cases. Mostly with LACs, Reflec on the fields, or when you've topped off your free sinks and need a cheap critseeker. The LB-10X is basically always worth it. Unfortunately, once LACs come around, the Thunderbolts are horning in hard on their niche.

The 'Bolts are strictly better than a standard AC or Gauss of the same size - if you have the crits to afford ammo. I broke it down a couple threads ago, but basically you have fewer explosive crits and save tonnage even with a -15 over a Gauss, and with -20s and -10s the savings are even more impressive. Yes, there's the AMS thing, and RISC PDS if it ever actually gets mounted on something there's a mini for. But it's incredibly easy to saturate down an AMS with other guns, and you still get IDF with a 'Bolt.

In IntroTech grogplay, the AC-20 is the only headcapper available. Even with Experimental rules the Blazer just runs too goddamned hot unless you design an entire 'Mech around it. Later on, using the LB-20X is irritating as Hell - but it's an intriguing choice because of the range tweaks. Even loading nothing but slug it's still a straight upgrade over the standard AC, and it can be very surprising for people who aren't paying attention. Plus it's not that hard of an upgrade..

>>52650621
My main beef with the IS LBX-20 is ELEVEN FUCKING CRITS. Why does it have to be just too big to fit in a damn arm?

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>>52650621
Oh, and I forgot to mention- the LB-5X is >the< premier anti-VTOL weapon. I love the fucking things. Decent against Aero, but they have problems lawndarting them. Still, in a cheap chassis like the Rifleman, Dragon, Shadow Hawk or Partisan they're great insurance against ""haha my TMM is +7" ECM/C3 spotter VTOL and hover fuckery. Also good for giving vees a bad Motive day, or pasting a few infantry when you get the shot.

LAC-5s give you more flexibility (AP ammo to auto-crit vees, Precision for hovers and Lights, Flak for infantry and Aero/VTOL), but nowhere near the range and basic utility of the LB-5X. The LB-10 is better for most things, and that's not really up for debate, but the sheer range and flex potential of the LB-5 is critical (hurr) on a combined-arms battlefield.

>>52650621
Do you think the Thunderbolt missiles would be balanced in Introtech or would the 15 and 20 be too good?

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>>52650674
The same reason the HGR has a whole shitload of special rules to keep it in the Torso - they wanted to restrict the firing arcs. FASA just wrote an elegant fix using a pre-existing system instead of writing extra rules for it. And then they made the art not reflect that, because FASA...

>>52650815
>Do you think the Thunderbolt missiles would be balanced in Introtech or would the 15 and 20 be too good?
In grogtech? Absolutely imbalanced. A bunch of the ammo that makes ACs more competitive later hasn't been introduced, and there's no effective downside to them except that their ammo/tonnage ratios. Especially playing with combined arms.
Two words: Thunderbolt Demolisher.

In the fifties, they're perfect. The AMS is proliferating, but the game designers haven't started ignoring it yet - so you have to choose targets. There are also other weapons that approach their range and power/weight ratio that make things more of a choice (imagine a Daikyu with twin TBT-10s instead of Ultra-5s, for example). So I'd be fine with a retcon into the Star League or CI eras, but the Sucession Wars are a bit iffy IMO.

>>52650815
>>52650815
They'd be balanced in the 40s at the earliest, before that they'd be too good.
Putting the 5 and 10 in 3025 MIGHT work, but you're right about the 15 and 20 being 2stronk. Especially tanks boating 15s and 20s. You could basically build a Alacorn on a schreck chassis with the 15s, and I'd sure as fuck not like to go up against that with introtech

>>52649638

>LB-20X 9 tons for IS, 8 for Clans
>LB-2X 1.5 tons
>LB-10Xs weigh what, 6 tons?
>Ultra A/C-20 10 tons for IS, 8 for Clans

I don't disagree with your thesis statement that A/Cs are a bit on the heavy side but I'm not sure going bonkers the other way really fixes the problem.

>>52650847

I don't think split items originally had the most restrictive firing arc rule. I thought that came in with BMR at the earliest?

>>52652558
>LB-20X 9 tons for IS, 8 for Clans

Why are you assuming that the IS to Clan conversion equations hold true? If you're going to redo autocannon from the ground up, it stands to reason that everything stemming from the base AC stats would also be redone from the ground up.

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>>52652558
>I don't think split items originally had the most restrictive firing arc rule. I thought that came in with BMR at the earliest?
IIRC it was a clarification/errata back in the Compendium era. Since the weapon is technically also "torso"-mounted, it's restricted to the F arc, because those rules come first in the book. Or some such groggy shit. I know the most-restrictive-arc rule was in use in my group back in the nineties, but I was also not exactly the fount of rules knowledge then that I am now.

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>>52653018
And speaking of the Compendium, I forgot how much I actually like some of John Paul Loma's BT artworks

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>>52653339
Good old grunty front-line stuff.

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>>52653354

>>52653339
As off model the early stuff got, it had a dynamism that Shimmy and the newer artists lack. Probably because most of them are all digital.

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>>52653381
All I can say is that she must have a HELL of a bra.

>>52653397
That is a Thud? With the hand-mounted gun, the crotch guard and torso setup I have wondered for years if that was some homage to a scopedog from Votoms or something.
In any case I would pilot something that looked like that... if the head unit looks cool.

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>>52653504
>>52653397
Honestly, I'm spitballing. This is right after 3055 and Solaris came out, so it could be a Hellhound/Conjurer/Wolverine III. It's just got that Okawara chest, and similar lines on teh arms and legs. then again, you've also got shit like this.

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>>52653382
there's also a tendency to >immerse< the 'Mechs in a world that contains things other than, well, other 'Mechs. Very much a dirty-future Star Wars "I live inside this fucker" feel. It feels right when this scene happens in Gundam 08th MS team, and it feels right here.

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>>52653709
That too, but the older artists took risks with designs, like this Cataphract. You'd have to know the design sure, but you can obviously tell the pilot's in trouble and is returning fire. New material just feels sterile, even with more stuff in the background.

>>52653397
It's a bra IIC. Lighter and more efficient :)

>>52653935
Its so dense! Every single frame has so many things going on!

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>>52654954

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>>52654954
Now if only they could fix the heat problem...

>>52653935
>You'd have to know the design...
Honestly, it's >instantly< recognizable from that profile. One of the things I like about Lona or MJ are that they isolate the critical parts of a design with framing elements, and get a good sense of depth going with the line weight and shading. Plog is good at detail, but he has serious problems making his B&W work look like anything but a complete soup sandwich because it's got no depth or differentiation between ANY damn elements of the pic.

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>>52655927
Put another way, I have no fucking clue what this image is, I just grabbed a random thumb from my Plog folder. With that Lona Beemer, I didn't need to read filenames to tell me what the picture is.

>>52655974
Looks like two Raidens in the foreground, a Guillotine in the middleground, and a No Dachi attacking a FedSuns warship, possibly an Avalon.

>>52655974
>>52656026
I love that one in the background, looks like it's having a hissy fit.

>>52656305
If that's an Akuma, then yeah I see any Drac pilot having a hissy fit.

>>52656327
It's a No-Dachi, I just identified it.

>>52656327
No-Dachi, friend.
Still a garbage mech, though.

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>>52656358
>>52656372
I stand corrected on everything except the hissy fit.

>>52656372

Well obviously. It's Drac. The Mechs are made to match the faction player base.

But >>52655974 has a point. You can tell what >>52655927 is from the thumbnail, while Plog's art is so busy and so lacking in depth (via art techniques, not "depth" depth) that you can't tell a damn thing from the thumbnail.

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Fresh content, from Discord to you. Enjoy.

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>>52656714
And the transparent version, which I thought I had uploaded. Derp.

>>52656026

Other WarShip in the background is a Tatsumaki.

>>52657304
I didn't bother to identify it since it's in a comparatively not busy portion of the work, and because no one cares about the Draconis Navy.

>>52657324
I cared until the writers dropped half of it.

>>52657521
>[Sad FWLN Sounds In The Distance]

>>52658004
There's that too. Every LGS I've ever been too has pretty much everyone playing FedSuns, RotS, or Clans.
Even the Lyrans and Cappies are few and far between.

>>52656420
I'm not clear on why you think that's an indictment. It wasn't made to be a thumbnail.

>>52658143
Yeah, people only go for "bad guy" factions in wargames when the bad is either barely bad, or when the bad guys are super techy. As evidence, see how in every WWII game you have plenty of people that want to play Germans, but fucking nobody wants to be the Italians.

40k doesn't count because it's all bad guys, all the time, and calling it a "wargame" is a disgrace to all actual wargames.

>>52658749
>but fucking nobody wants to be the Italians

That's because the Italians are even more useless than the Capellans. They'd be like playing the Outworlds Alliance during a Great Refusal challenge; there's no hope of victory and you're just going to look stupid for trying.

>>52658749
>bad is either barely bad, or when the bad guys are super techy
The Germans were neither of those though.

>>52658749
Funny thing is the first Battletech books I read were the Warrior Trilogy ones and I assumed from them the Federated Suns were the bad guys. All the racism, the literal use of the phrase "carpet baggers" to describe them, their colonial attitudes on frontier worlds, waging wars of aggression, etc.

But I'm not American or European so those things seemed bad to me,

>>52658808
Keep it in /his/ please.

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>>52658749
>No Italians
Speak for yourself mate, I love me some spaghetti eaters.

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>>52658856
They work for naval or air, not land.

>the fate of the Roma
Never forget.

>>52658841
Did you just entirely skip over all the Capellan parts of those books? You know, the parts with Max plotting for the exact same things?

Also
>implying empire building is bad
Better than the proxy war shit and economic control without territorial benefits that dominates today.

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>>52658881
Fucking Fritz.

>>52658922
>Did you just entirely skip over all the Capellan parts of those books?
The Capellans are constantly portrayed as weak, on the defensive, and reacting.

I didn't grow up with the same culture you did so to me and mine Hanse Davion seemed like a brutal imperialist whose non-stop attacks forced his enemies to turn to anything they could to survive. Hanse killed 100 million people.

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>>52658881
>>the fate of the Roma
Take that, traitorous Giuseppes.

>>52647422
Someone had posted it on facebook, with no crediting that I remember.

>>52658808
All that matters here is the popular stereotypes, not "Goddamnit Hans, why did you give ANOTHER tank overlapping road wheels?".

Also
>>>/his/

>>52658856
As a Flames of war player, you never, never see Italians. There's like one guy that plays them on the whole of /tg/. They're not even bad, they were the favorite army to use by one of the better flames players because they were so cheap, it's just that they're ignored by everyone because they got shit on historically.

>>52658952
>The Capellans are constantly portrayed as weak, on the defensive, and reacting.

Only once Hanse actually launches Rat, because he steamrolled them with superior forces and planning. The whole first book is Max going "I shall get you Hanse Davion. I am SOOOOO clever. You don't even know your own Duke Hasek has been negotiating with me to unseat you."

It's the second book he was doing that too, if you count Sword and Dagger.


>Hanse killed 100 million people.
Ten million people died in the 4th Succession War. A drop in the bucket when the state itself is measured almost a trillion. Hell, the Taurians killed more people just when they took Brockway, a single world.

>>52658952
>I didn't grow up with the same culture you did

You grew up in a pretty shit culture, then. Basically every successful culture throughout history behaves exactly the way the Suns do, and when they stop behaving that way, they collapse. Granted, the Chinese are the single really notable exception, but that's more a function of their completely massive population relative to anyone who ever tried to conquer them.

>>52659012
>Ten million people died in the 4th Succession War. A drop in the bucket when the state itself is measured almost a trillion. Hell, the Taurians killed more people just when they took Brockway, a single world.
Hell, the SLDF killed more than that on one world in ONE WEEK during the invasion of the periphery

>>52658952
>Hanse killed 100 million people.
And? Even if he did it personally, the first two Succession Wars, the preceding Hegemony Civil War and the Reunification War have absolutely staggering death tolls and make kicking the ever loving fuck out of the Confederation a drop in the bucket.

>>52658998
There's at least one guy that's mentioned playing Folgores and another Bersagliere over on /hwg/. But yeah, way less people play Italians than are deserved. I apologize for the sidetrack.

>>52659220
It's a matter of scale and intent. Jinjiro Kurita murdered 52 million, mostly civillians, by gun and sword on a single planet just because his predecessor was stupid enough to walk around on the front line of a combat zone.

>>52659012
>Ten million people died in the 4th Succession War.
Citation? Because the actual fluff says 100 million.

>>52659101
>you grew up in a shit culture
>except exception
dumb whites

>>52659529

U mad?
Did I find a chink in your armor?

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What do you think went through Hanse Davion's mind on his wedding night?

>>52659515
Retconned in later material for being a stupid high number that whoever wrote 4th War Atlas picked out of a hat. Basically because it was so radically disconnected from the rest of the representations of the war. Happened around the same time they upped the Jumpships in the Inner Sphere by 10X.

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>>52658631
>I'm not clear on why you think that's an indictment. It wasn't made to be a thumbnail.
It's an indication of a larger problem, often called the "arms' length" test. If you can't decode your composition after you blur out the basic detail, it's not a good one. Plog's BW work is too busy and too flat to be easily read, and lacks focus points. That makes it overwhelming and ruins the skill he puts into the individual elements

>>52659670

"How is Melissa Steiner like the Capellan Confederation?"

>>52659670
>"That fucking dwarf better not have hit that before me"

>>52659681
>retconned in later material
It was still being used in jihad era material so once again, citation? Your headcanon isn't a source.

>>52659708

Also, any source I disagree with isn't a source.

>>52659708
>The only Jihad source is a bunch of people arguing on the extranet about it in universe in DotJ

Ironic

>>52659764
That's still literally more than anything thing else that's been posted to demonstrate a retcon. Even in DotJ they're not debating the number at all.

>>52659850
It's also from 2006 when the stated retcon was from around 2010. You'd have to go dig it up in the forum archives like the jumpship thing. I'm not going through the trouble. That could take hours. I haven't even been to the OF in like three years.

>>52659903
>when the stated retcon was from around 2010
For the third time, citation needed. Saying "somewhere in the OF" isn't a citation.

Somewhere in the OF they confirmed Phelan was a FtM transperson. I'm not going through the trouble to find it, but take my word for it.

>>52659903
Conveniently for your vaguely remembered thing from the OF, the OF has crashed and lost all archives twice now. Which you'd know if you'd been on more than three years ago.

>>52659924
There's no retcon, he's pulling your leg.

>>52659924
>Somewhere in the OF they confirmed Phelan was a FtM transperson. I'm not going through the trouble to find it, but take my word for it.
>literal boypussy being wrecked by elemental wolfcock
Hey, I'm all for it

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>Most every Successor State in the Inner Sphere (and not a few Periphery realms) has branded the Confederation a totalitarian regime under the iron fist of the Liao family, or a corrupt socialist state held under the heel of vicious, greedy nobles. While it is true that the Confederation operates under a socialist political structure, it would be incorrect to label us a police state, or to say that the Liao family rules absolutely. The citizens of the Confederation have a say in the way their state is run, both in their support of the Chancellor and in their choices for the various other arms of the Capellan government. The rule of law operates in the Confederation, just as it does in the other Successor States—and if the Capellan citizen is perhaps more likely to allow his government the benefit of the doubt, this is to the Confederation’s credit as an entity that inspires loyalty.
>-Doctor Oliver Carakov, University of Sian Press, 3067

Really activates my almonds.

Is he right though?

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>>52658939
>Fucking Fritz.

They killed him, those stinking yellow fairies!

>>52660101
Well I mean he's accurately stating the ruling party line

>>52660101
Would you trust a guy who taught at Patrice Lumumba University to tell you that the soviet union was in fact a great and non-repressive place?

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>>52653397
>>52653504
I've been told that it's from some other minis game where it's called, if I remember it right, a "shaiten."

BT-wise, It looks more like an OG Archer than anything else. (The Thud shows up a few pages earlier - bottom right in pic related.)

>>52658952
They're only Capellans. It's not like they're real people or anything.

>t. Chinaman

>>52659670
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAzdL4nUhgc

>>52659670
Google says that's T Swift when she was sixteen. Did her boobs shrink or she have a breast reduction surgery or something?

>>52663674

Bigger breasts have more fat tissue, she is skinnier now so they will be smaller. May also have had a growth spurt after that picture was taken that make them smaller relative to the rest of her.

-t. boob connoisseur

Legitimately got given a uni assignment on virginal breast hypertrophy one time, 600 genetics students and the random condition I get is "go look at big tits and write a 5k formal essay on how the condition is detected and treated.

>>52659686
>>52658631
Plog's thrown too much detail into the piece, and while there is variation in line weight evident, mostly between the three foreground figures and everything else, but it isn't drastic enough or applied in such a manner to create atmospheric perspective so that depth can be implied. I think part of the problem is that he was trying to imply just how fucking bright the lasers are by showing how they're washing detail out around the Guillotine's legs and in the immediate area, but it doesn't come across well in black in white and it makes the foreground which should have more detail and heavier line weight feel exactly the same as the background.


*Disclaimer
I can talk theory and recognize what's wrong, but Plog still has infinitely better hand skills than I do. Don't think I'm trashing on him as a bad artist. I just think there are things about the composition that aren't working quite right.

>>52664821
>virginal breast hypertrophy
Found my new screen name.

>>52661665
Found my notes: a "1MK-17X Shaitan" from Mekton.

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>>52665438
>create atmospheric perspective
but it's in space

This talk of Capellans has got me wondering: what could the Confederation have done around the end of the 3rd Succession War to improve their military situation?

Would something as simple as accepting Katrina Steiner's peace proposal have had any concrete benefits?

Say it's around 3025, and Max Liao and Pavel Ridzik buy it in the same dropship crash. Maybe Romano is on it.
Candace or Tormano take the throne and you are appointed Strategic Military Director.
What kind of advice would you give them? To preserve the Confederation, of course.

I'm trying to get an idea for what political and military options they had left prior to the 4th war.

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>>52659669

>thinks cultural success can only be gotten through martial and territorial conquest

I love this image

>>52666234

It was a challenge to stretch "their boobs get huge and the only real treatment is surgery" into 5,000 words. Still got a High Distinction though.

>>52667549
>This talk of Capellans has got me wondering: what could the Confederation have done around the end of the 3rd Succession War to improve their military situation?

They could have teleported their entire state into the Deep Periphery. Nothing else could save them from the hammer that was about to be dropped.

Well, maybe if Max and Romano bite it and Candace offers herself in dynastic marriage to Thomas Marik. That's about the only hope they have, and Candace wasn't particularly well-regarded before the 4th SW either.

>>52667549

Well, the most obvious thing is to not do that whole "Operation Doppleganger" thing that pissed off Hanse enough to start the next Succession War. That might buy the CapCon more time, since until that little episode happened, Hanse was mostly focusing on the Dracs because they killed Ian and were a far greater threat, historically.

However, by 3025, assuming everything else is the same except for Max/Pavel/Romano buying it, the overall strategic situation for the CapCon is dire enough that a real comeback for them in the Succession Wars is hugely improbable. Like, "successfully divide by zero"-level improbable. The new Chancellor's best bet (as in "most rational", in the Poli-Sci definition of the term) is going to be to decide whether they want to be absorbed into the FWL or FS and negotiate openly in order to get the best possible terms for their people. Remember, there's nothing actually preventing Hanse from doing exactly what actually happened in the Fourth War, aside from motivation, and we already know how that turns out for the CapCon.

Short of some sort of massive and totally unforseeable intervention (suddenly the Taurians find a half-dozen fully functional and loaded McKennas in their space who are offering an alliance with the Concordat, and who then go on to wipe out a third of the FS military via ortillery), by 3025 the Capellans are well and truly screwed. To make a meaningful difference in their strategic situation, you likely have to go all the way back to the Amaris Coup and ensure a higher concentration of Mech production (and notably *good* heavy/assault Mech production) in Capellan territory deep enough in that territory to not be reasonably targetable (ie, Tikonov is too exposed, Imalda and Castrovia are not). The CapCon was largely in a strategic hole from the get-go.

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>>52667011
>>52665438
The problem with that is that it's literally a random image I pulled out of the Plog folder. Almost all of his "glamor" work has the exact. same. problem.
Dafuq is this? I have no idea from the thumb, and even opening it up it takes a bit to work out what's going on.

>>52667549
I'd probably tell the Chancellor to liquidate whatever Liao family treasury assets they can for hard cash to hire more mercenaries. Going by the original house books there were a number of contracts up in the mid 3020s, so I'd try to snag as many as I could. Like the 12th Star Guards, for example. Other than that, I can't think of much.

>>52667915
It's a Yu Huang in the foreground, with a Prefect standing over a Shockwave with a Gallant behind them, with a destroyed Shen Yi between the Gallant and the rest of the mechs. An Overlord is firing in all directions in the background. It's an inherently chaotic piece, with artillery or a nuke going off nearby.

>>52667638
>>52667799
>>52667921
Was there a chance at all of a well-led CCAF doing some sort of (original, not sourcebook) War of 3039 Teddy K counteroffensive to fend the AFFS off?

Or was the CCAF of 3025 too beat to shit to do something like that?

In some ways it makes me think of 1945 Germany or something.

>>52667549
Making a deal to join the FWL as a province, or giving hanse a call and seeing if he's interested in polygamy are about their only options, honestly

>>52668068
>Was there a chance at all of a well-led CCAF doing some sort of (original, not sourcebook) War of 3039 Teddy K counteroffensive to fend the AFFS off?

To convince them not to invade? Highly unlikely. The CCAF might have been able to mass for a specific, limited objective and take it, but a general spoiling thrust into the FS would only be really likely to provoke Hanse into considering the CapCon as a higher-priority target than the Dracs and you end up with the 4th Succession War all over again.

It's difficult to overstate how rough a position the CapCon was at the time; the only states I can think of in worse positions in the history of BattleTech was the CapCon (again) immediately after the 4th War, and the FRR immediately following Tukkayid. The CapCon military in 3025 wasn't as bad off as it was after the 4th War, true, but they'd still pretty consistently gotten hammered by anyone who poked at them for something like two consecutive generations, and they were already running out of viable war material at the time, and at a level far higher than that of any other Successor State.

To make an analogy, the CapCon in 3025 was like a long-term cancer patient in the hospital's "terminal patients" wing. It had been in a rough place for a long time and had more or less given up hope. The CapCon in 3031, meanwhile, was like that cancer patient got one precious day to leave the terminal wing of the hospital and see his family one last time...only to take three steps out of the door and get hit by a truck walking through the hospital parking lot. Just because the latter is on life support and is worse in comparison doesn't mean there was any real hope for the former.

>>52667549

I'm hoping to write a 3rd War book one day (if not, I'll do a fanbook), and that was the first question I asked myself when writing the CapCon portion. I want to start from the position that, after seeing how Max comes to power (bold scheming relying on a long-term plan), that he'd be willing to go for bold, long-term solutions. If anything, a lot of what we know he does is compatible with that approach. Some of the first new mech designs since the Star League, Operation Doppelganger, the increased spy campaign against the FWL that results in Anton's Rebellion: this is clear long-term thinking that isn't relying on "well, maybe we'll pull out a win somewhow if we just keep hanging on". So, I'd say the CapCon was already doing several helpful things and was in about as good hands as could be expected. They were in a bad spot, gambled (but needed to), and unfortunately were caught out by another leader with vision.

>>52668068
>Or was the CCAF of 3025 too beat to shit to do something like that?
It most certainly was.
The Big MAC's raiding was pretty much the entire extent of their offensive capability

>>52668349
>the only states I can think of in worse positions in the history of BattleTech was the CapCon (again) immediately after the 4th War, and the FRR immediately following Tukkayid
I mean, the Dark Age taurians and arguably lyrans are down there with them, but then again
>dark age

>>52668068

>Was there a chance at all of a well-led CCAF doing some sort of (original, not sourcebook) War of 3039 Teddy K counteroffensive to fend the AFFS off?

I really doubt it. The Mask thought Hasek was loyal to them and were channeling false info through him. They'd have to know about that for a start.

Then there's the FedCom military. They literally had enough regiments to garrison borders hard enough they couldn't be counter-attacked while smashing the Successor State of their choosing, or to fuck up two at once by blocking one border each. So there would also need to be no FedCom merger.

Then there's Hanse. The CapCon really has no rival for him until super genius Zahn teleports in to do nothing personnel kid with Xin Sheng.

Then there's Mad Max's damage and whether or not Justin Xiang and Alex Mallory are in place or not.

BT canon until around the Jihad era is set up around the idea of the FedCom (and/or its constituent halves) just being way the fuck better than everyone else, so much so that there's not really any feasible way for them to not get relentlessly dicked over unless you re-write the whole setting.

Really what happens to the CapCon is for the best since Xin Sheng worked out so well for them later. Any other alternative plotline is probably going to go worse for them without Coleman-level authorial fiat.

>>52668440
>dark age

Pretty sure NEA was talking about real battletech, though.

>>52667549
>what could the Confederation have done around the end of the 3rd Succession War to improve their military situation?

Not a whole bunch honestly. The basis should have been "Don't piss off our neighbors" and then work from there. Picking up factories and moving them further into the interior would have been a good idea if they could have spared the production time to do so.

Actual military strategy though...

While actual Castle Brian construction is right out building massive networks of infantry bunkers, hidden tunnel networks, rapid deployment minefields, and well sighted artillery positions...all in areas invaders either wouldn't want to nuke/orbitally bombard or really need to hold worlds is a relatively cheap option for dragging a defense out. This on worlds actually worth defending/taking(first and second tier worlds). On third tier worlds you ensure you have competently trained and equipped militia forces/citizen soldiers that come out of hiding once the front line troops have moved on or been drawn down. Make holding any captured worlds a massive draw on any enemy forces/purses.

All front line regiments(really any mech regiment) garrison major worlds or stand in mobile reserve to counterattack, reinforce, or to mount a counter invasion.

This is all moot of course since the CCAF and higher leadership leaked like a sieve and nothing this big could be kept from the FS.

>>52668497
I don't disagree

>>52668510
>While actual Castle Brian construction is right out building massive networks of infantry bunkers, hidden tunnel networks, rapid deployment minefields, and well sighted artillery positions...all in areas invaders either wouldn't want to nuke/orbitally bombard or really need to hold worlds is a relatively cheap option for dragging a defense out. This on worlds actually worth defending/taking(first and second tier worlds). On third tier worlds you ensure you have competently trained and equipped militia forces/citizen soldiers that come out of hiding once the front line troops have moved on or been drawn down. Make holding any captured worlds a massive draw on any enemy forces/purses
Those are all good tactics, the only problem is that none of them actually WORK in the battletech universe

>>52668368
>the increased spy campaign against the FWL that results in Anton's Rebellion:

THAT is a fair point that I had forgotten about. If Max basically stops trying for a military victory and instead goes for a political one (destabilizing his neighbors enough that military adventurism actually becomes possible, or even outright alliances with rebelling provinces), then that's a strategy that can perhaps pay dividends.

Granted, >>52667549 *did* specify the "military situation", but in the long term this sort of political destabilization can improve one's military situation. It just operates on the longer term than is likely for a wargame to allow.

So I'd add this to the "political" list (next to, "surrender to the FWL and get to stay alive as a province"), but I don't think it's a reasonable answer to their military situation.

Oh, and I'd love to read that book if you ever get around to it.

>>52668510
>massive networks of infantry bunkers, hidden tunnel networks, (etc)

I get you, but from what I recall, a lot of this was already done, and the FS just massed enough force that they smashed right through it. Static defenses are pretty tough to make work when your opponent has orbital redeployment capability. It's better than nothing, sure, but IIRC it didn't amount to much for a lot of effort spent.


>>52668497

Come on, man. Y u heff to be be mad?

>>52668368
Hey XOTL, just a thought, if the quirks thing isn't finalized yet, what do you think of giving the crusader AA targeting, since the SLDF used it as an AA machine?
Lord knows the damn thing could use the extra utility

Different anon with a related question, if Xin Sheng and associated bullshit never happened, approximately where would the CapCon be as of 67?

>>52668396
At that point the Big Mac was basically an independent but loosely-allied state working with the Caps anyway.

>>52668510
>The basis should have been "Don't piss off our neighbors" and then work from there.
Except that a certain amount of raiding is how you let them know you can fight back. Perceived weakness is why the Haseks and the Humphreys/Centrallas went after them, after all.

>>52668788
>loosely-allied
Tightly-bound and shown great favour, you mean. There was nothing loose about their association with the Liao. They were founded by a Liaoaboo never fought against the Confederation. They're more like a noble's private army in service to Sian.

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>>52668878
>Tightly-bound and shown great favour, you mean. There was nothing loose about their association with the Liao. They were founded by a Liaoaboo never fought against the Confederation. They're more like a noble's private army in service to Sian.
I mean more in the sense of "almost uncontrolled by the government" not "disloyal". They're >very< independent of centcom and fond of haring off to do their own shit, which has fucked over the Caps more than once. OTOH, they don't get dragged under when the Chancellors go bonkers, so it's also saved the Caps' asses several times.


>>52668787
It depends on what you mean by
>Xin Sheng and associated bullshit
Some folks think that the Caps existing at all is bullshit, others are like "lol no 'Mechs".

Personally, I'd say if Xin Sheng goes we also need to make all those magical FedCom warehouses be full of shitty Primitives like the Swordsman and Dervish and start the RetroTech "revolution" in the Chaos March during the Civil War, but I'm an outlier in that I like primitive 'Mechs..

The short version, though, is rump state. Getting raided by the FedCom as they can spare time from their incest-spat and/or the Clans, and probably getting cornholed by a Taurian/St. Ives alliance with or without the Magistracy, Haseks, and FWL in on it.

>>52669034
>They're >very< independent of centcom and fond of haring off to do their own shit, which has fucked over the Caps more than once.
Has it? My impression was their independence of command was another of the privileges shown them by the Liaos. I can't actually think of a time the Big MAC's deeds have hurt the Liaos.

>>52663674
>>52664821
Are you guys forgetting padded bras? They work magic.

>>52669034
>Personally, I'd say if Xin Sheng goes we also need to make all those magical FedCom warehouses be full of shitty Primitives like the Swordsman and Dervish and start the RetroTech "revolution" in the Chaos March during the Civil War, but I'm an outlier in that I
Hell yeah, I'm all for that, only I would give primitives to the small periphery states long before and just make the Chaos March their reappearance in the Inner Sphere
>I like primitive 'Mechs..
Who doesn't?

>>52669179
>Are you guys forgetting padded bras? They work magic.
That's called black magic. It's bad juju.

>>52668610

Personally I think the only place they COULD work is in the Confederation. Viet Cong or Stay-Behind style forces should work, especially once front line mech forces depart. Provide them with long term supplies and a deep network of fortifications and hidy holes and you could put a serious drain on anyone invading.

And fixed defenses can work if you place them in such a way that using nukes/orbstrikes would negate the reason for taking the planet. Yes orbital movement and mech mobility negates traditional line defenses but if you've gotta take a point they can still work.

>>52669449

keks activated

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>>52669449
>black magic
That's why I play Canopian.

>>52668787

What >>52669034 said. They'd likely be reduced to rump state status. Slowly whittled down post 4th by players on all sides. Perhaps an unsuccessful attempt at reintegrating St Ives is what finally balkanizes them. With the Civil War drawing attention away from them it becomes an outgrowth of the Chaos March. I giggle thinking about what a WoB state would look like with such a result.

>>52668787
They would be VASTLY fucked. 20YU called their economy as on track to collapse completely before the end of the decade, and even if that didn't quite happen, they'd still be so badly fucked up that the taurians would steal their spot as fifth-place power not descended from the Star League and St.Ives would be rapidly closing in to take sixth. Honestly the best possible (and fairly likely) thing for them would be Candice following through on her promised coup some time in the sixties and the resulting St.Ives but bigger nation slowly defucking itself, but they'd be straight fucked and well on the highway to ceasing to exist as a nation if SOMETHING didn't stop the downward spiral

>>52650785
Reminds me, has c3 been made any more viable since Jihad-era?

Just wonderin'. Haven't played in ages, but the sheer inviability of c3 always humoured me when people used c3 as a justification for this system or that.

>>52669754
Looking at 20YU it seems like Romano Liao had already done what Sun-Tzu got the credit for with the Big MAC, namely making them regulars of the CCAF.

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>>52669790
>Reminds me, has c3 been made any more viable since Jihad-era?
In terms of raw price, no, but I play a lot of scenario games. So do other folks. It's still ludicrously expensive but a single Lance or a short-staffed C3i net with ECCM protection are a fucking nightmare to deal with. Especially when the spotter is one of those tiny scout fuckers that's impossible to hit otherwise.

Also, it's a lot more fairly-priced in Alpha Strike, so if you're doing large-scale games you actually have to plan for dealing with C3. Then again, in AS the LB-X cannon are kind of moot against hovers, so that specific discussion becomes pointless. Still useful against VTOLs in theory, but being unable to use your non-FLK/AC damage and the Flak at the same time really eats up your ability to take them down.

>>52670132
Oh, scenario play I can understand.

The pricing can just eat cake though. Even with cECM ruled in, it was just not working out.

>>52669965
Coleman-tzu probably didn't read 20YU before writing FM:CC, so that's not a surprise

Hey everyone! I'm looking to get my group into battletech and I'm thinking of a horror-themed campaign based around Interstellar Ops and the Green Ghosts, around the year 3065. Is there an official RAT on the ghosts, or do I have to just extrapolate from the ISP books?

>>52669658
Unf.

>>52658749
>not playing Italians in naval games
Capitani Romani wolfpacks are fun as hell to run as destroyers on PCP. Yeah, they're technically ahistorical if you bring more than four, but still.

43 fucking knots, man. Do you even gofast?

>>52669556
Guerrillas only work in the CapCon. Remember the Liberation Units? Neither did the writers.

I don't suppose there's any word on a reprint of the starter box cause I ain't playing some asshole on ebay $300 for it

>>52670709
lol most everything fwl got tossed so they could make wizkids' vision in 3132 link up

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>>52669658
I can do better...

>>52671001
I thought you said better, god dammit.

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>>52671001
pshhh, at least *try* to post better Canopian girls.

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>>52671400

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>>52670633
Matter of fact, I do.

>>52669034
This is a significantly better Plog piece than some of the extremely busy scenes we were looking at earlier, and he's managed background detail way better.

>>52672377
>This is a significantly better Plog piece than some of the extremely busy scenes we were looking at earlier, and he's managed background detail way better.
That's because it's a proposed TRO piece for the Koto, where there are guidelines for displaying mechs.

>>52670346
No RAT afaik.
I've read once they used the Goliath Scorpions rat, but I can't remember why

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>>52670751
>I don't suppose there's any word on a reprint of the starter box cause I ain't playing some asshole on ebay $300 for it
It looks like what they're tossing around right now is a reprint of the Starter with a bunch of the Shimmyseen after the Battlemech Manual, and ditching the Alpha Strike box for now. Regardless they have to move fast, because they're holding up IWM's metal releases of the Shimseen, and the IWM guys are getting pissy about it.


>>52672377
>>52672486
Pretty much what I was going for, yeah. When he's doing full scenes the shit's way too busy, lacks focal points, and lacks general composition and depth. When he's doing TRO pieces (with one mandated focal point and tighter art direction) he's a lot better at using his excellent skills for detail and mechanical design. Here's another piece of his with a strong comp and a tight focus. It's those "mass-battle" glamor shots where he falls all the way own.

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>>52672545
>No RAT afaik.
>I've read once they used the Goliath Scorpions rat, but I can't remember why
That was a quickie fix to get them into the scenario book, according to Herb when we asked him in the Battlechats. Also, the Scorps had a good mix of random crap to represent a Dark Caste/Clanner survivor/SL Scavenger unit, which almost all available clues point to the Ghosts being. Or pretending to be. Whatever.

The scenario book in question also predated Wars of Reaving, IIRC, so the Dark Caste/Burrock and Blood Spirits RATs might be just as appropriate, depending on how you're running your campaign.

>>52672545
>>52672937

I wish I remembered the other books that had it- maybe Jihad Conspiracies? Either way, I seem to remember their force was described as being lyran and periphery general, with the final slots being Goliath Scorps 2nd line. I also remember SOMETHING stating that their Warship (I think this was from the Wars of Reaving) is an old Peregrine built during the Golden Century of the clans.

>so the Dark Caste/Burrock and Blood Spirits RATs

Those are in Wars of Reaving right?

>>52671571
Apply Inferno AIV to hex immediately.

>>52673141
>Those are in Wars of Reaving right?
In the WoR complement, yes

>>52667588
>Posting Japanese person
Not that anon, but really?

>>52667588
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Man+Tears

Suck it down, blue haired git, suck it down!

>>52673999
You need glasses
It isn't even written Man Tears, bro

>>52674083
Well you want a real man, right?

>>52674105

Not if he's white. The sooner the white race dies or is killed off, the better for the rest of humanity. They're the root problem for literally every modern era intra-country issue not caused by Muslims,

>>52674486
>>>/pol/

>>52674486
Ah, "not a racist" Japanese anon is back. Welcome back, you human garbage fire.

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>>52674486
If the other anon is right and you are dat Jap, you're probably just a superior-Korea hating hikikomori who hasn't even touched a girl's thigh who wasn't a Taiwanese lady boy anyway. Maybe 2chan is more your speed.

>>52674521

Just saying, the Japanese race never nuked anybody. Enjoy your war crimes, the world will never forget.

>>52674625
No one alive has nuked anyone either. What's your point?

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>>52674625

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>>52674625
>Just saying, the Japanese race never nuked anybody. Enjoy your war crimes, the world will never forget.

Wake up, troll. You just have to be one. Did you ever think it was an act of compassion to the rest of your population and maturity to wake Jap culture the hell up with a little atomic aspirin?

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>>52674625
Yeah, the Japanese never nuked anybody. They just used civilians as test subjects and chopped of their arms and legs for kicks and marched sick and fatigued POWs until they died and massacred hundreds of thousands of civilians whenever they got the chance.

>>52674851

That's propaganda made up after the fact. Like the lies about Chinese and Koreans being mistreated by Japanese liberation forces. Never happened, and nobody was treated in a way they didn't deserve.

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>>52674875

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>>52674875
>nobody was treated in a way they didn't deserve
Welcome to American foreign policy, circa WWII.
BTW, I know Japs who confessed to being a part of those crimes, and Koreans and Chinese who suffered from those crimes. You are a troll, or hella delusional.

>>52674955

In fairness, the actions of Japanese occupation forces, Unit 731, and other, similar instances are both not taught in the Japanese history classes, and are outright denied by a big chunk of the Japanese population (including government officials). It's entirely possible he's entirely serious.

I taught English in Kakogawa for a year (2003-4), and it was one of the more miserable experiences of my life. Older Japanese (old enough to be WW2 vets or the children thereof) were hugely respectful, while younger Japanese (grandchildren of WW2 vets or younger) were pretty much the opposite and were very vocal about the fact that they were the real victims of unprovoked American attacks in WW2 and any evidence to the contrary is manufactured. We're probably 10-15 or so years from a major nationalist resurgence in Japan. Once the children of WW2 vets cycle out of power, it'll happen. Racist-anon is simply a symptom of that disease.

>>52675557

>and are outright denied by a big chunk of the Japanese population

Didn't the mayor or governor of Osaka say something in relation to the Japanese occupation that offended China in the last few years?

>>52675557
Then it'll be even more hilarious when China inevitably devours their country.

>>52675620
Keep in mind that it takes more than one nuclear weapon exploding over a major population center to get a formal apology out of the Japanese.

>>52675620

Yeah, a couple of years ago, he said that Chinese "comfort women" were 100% volunteers (nobody was forced into the duty), that they played an important role in reducing sexual assaults against the civilian population, and that modern civilian (non-Japanese) women should think about taking on the same role as military comfort women for the same reasons.

Some of his quotes are paraphrased, but here's an article on it:

>http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/14/world/asia/mayor-in-japan-says-comfort-women-played-a-necessary-role.html

>>52675714
>Yeah, a couple of years ago, he said that Chinese "comfort women" were 100% volunteers
I mean, can they prove him wrong?

>>52675865

Well, there's the several hundred accounts of the workers saying that they were forced into brothels at gunpoint, and accounts of soldiers who said that they forced women into brothels at gunpoint. What sort of proof are you expecting? Do you want live video from 1942 and a signed notary statement with witnesses?

>>52675964
Something that isn't post-war accounts forced at gunpoint for propaganda purposes, yes.

>>52675964

That's all hearsay. As far as I'm concerned, there's no proof of any of it. The mayor of Osaka said nothing wrong at all.

>>52675972

All those photos of the Holocaust were probably photoshopped, too. No proof of that either except things that could have been faked post-war.

>>52675996
Well no, we have evidence before and during the war of pograms against Jews and the Wannsee Conference and all. Don't be silly.

>>52675980
>>52675972
There's no way you aren't a trollin' troll, trollin' us for laughs. I actually respect your dedication, sir. You're still a deluded faggoty retard, but I appreciate the dedication to the cause.

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To stop the insanity...
new thread
>>52676079

>>52675972

What about the Prime Minister of Japan admitting that it happened?

"As Prime Minister of Japan, I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women."
Tomiichi Murayama, 1965

Or, "We cannot deny that the former Japanese army played a role" in abducting and detaining the "comfort girls...We would like to express our apologies and contrition".
Chief Government Spokesman Koichi Kato, 1992

Or the official apology issued by Japanese Parliment on March 27, 2007? It was vetoed by Prime Minister Abe, who is exactly one of the people >>52675557 is talking about; Japan did nothing wrong and were attacked for unknown reasons by the Americans on December 8th 1941. But the fact remains that the Diet passed the apology through, by a massive margin. What were they apologizing for, if Japan hadn't done anything?