/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>52412917
>Has anyone ever run a Hunter Hunted game before?

Yes, I regularly run 'em with a group of mine. S'pretty fun, though there's generally a lot less action stuff in Hunters Hunted games. Most "successful" hunts usually involve making sure the vampire does *not* get a chance to get combat-ready.

>>52407189
>What is with caitiff anyway? Why does not having a chat with your sire remove the effects of your inherited vitae? Like, why does a 10 minute conversation with a Gangrel site determine whether I have protean, fortitude and animalism, or vicissitude, necromancy, and thanatosis?

Ah, I think you're a bit confused...

See, there's two kinds of "Caitiff" in VtM.

The first refers to a vampire with little-to-no idea of who or what they are. Many gangrel start out as caitiff simply on account of the whole "abandon your childe and see how well they survive on their own" thing...

Then you got the other side of the coin: the ones who simply do not manifest their sire's clan curse or disciplines. These are often abandoned by their sires pretty quickly upon discovering that they have like zero vampiric stuff in common with their childe, but not always.

So, Person A could know, with 100% certainty that they are descended from Nosferatu, and others might even aknowledge it as well... but they would still be regarded as Caitiff on account of the fact that they lack their sire's disciplines and clan weakness.

It also means that Person B could have zero idea that they belong to a certain clan... but then it would simply mean that it's a case of ignorance, rather than a supernatural difference between sire and childe.

Most caitiff suffer from *both* of these drawbacks, in that not only don't they know their clan, they wouldn't fit in with their clan even if they *did* know.

TL,DR: Caitiff can refer to both the idea of being ignorant of your clan, or how you're a supernatural deviation from your sire's clan/bloodline. It can be confusing, at times.

File: 400px-WHFBVampire.jpg (52KB, 400x358px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 400x358px

I asked last thread, but got no responses, is there a good combat utility to Necromancy? Shambling hordes with path of bones doesn't get any better as you increase along that path, and it's the closest there seems to be to typical necromancy. Is there something better for the Von Carstein type vampire I'm going for?

File: shamblinghordes.jpg (77KB, 360x500px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 360x500px

>>52413313
Even in VtES, Necromancy isn't really a combat discipline. Shambling Hordes decks can be pretty good though.

>>52413313
Bones is pretty lackluster, mostly because VtM vampires aren't exactly meant to raise armies of corpses. There is a 4 dot ritual that summons a small army of ghosts in Rites of Blood, but I don't remember if the von Carstein actually used them.

File: 1485108345125.jpg (144KB, 800x1200px) Image search: [Google]

144KB, 800x1200px

>>52414476
>Bones is pretty lackluster, mostly because VtM vampires aren't exactly meant to raise armies of corpses.

What's even the point then. Why give half the power to do so, and then leave it be?
As well, ghostly units are part of the Vampire Counts troops, so I guess if that's the best i can do, that's what I'll do.
Is Thaumaturgy helpful for this kind of thing? Any paths that would synergise well with Necromancy?

>>52414852
If you want actual Necromancy you're probably better off playing NWoD, OWoD kinda frowns upon it on a fundamentally corrupting level through all the game lines so has very few listed examples of actual necromancy proper.

File: MageMoros.jpg (84KB, 800x533px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 800x533px

>>52414930
>not summoning the ghost of your dead highschool sweetheart and putting her into bagepage prostitutes

Actually now that I think about it. thats not bad plot fodder

File: eviiiil.jpg (34KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 480x360px

>>52414930
Actual necromancy is legit in oWoD, it's just laced with annoying evilness.

Blame Voormas.

>>52415353
and if you look at the next sentence >>52413644
>but the man in charge was Matt

Dave Also wrote some of the different splat reactions to Beast in their mist. Most of his were "dude this guy is a fucked up creep, stay away" The point being, and we agree on this, that the writers can only do so much to influence a collaborative project, and citing one writer the full blame is disingenuous.

Beast problems are well documented. Sanctifying Beasts for complicity towards the harm they cause, while Demonizing Heros for doing less for better reason. And that goes down to the narrative voice being so unironically overwhelming pro Beast.

Their are some interesting ideas in Beast, but the overall execution is well, being nice about it, disappointing. I blame the ill fated rewrites and the muddying of themes, not enough money or time to do a full overhaul. The writers had been paid and that would have broken the budget. It was a no win situation. They should have gone full evil instead of braking half way inbetween. instead of this very messed up abuser apologetic spin

http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/kurieg/beast-the-primordial/
Kurieg has so far completed his review of the material it just hasn't been back logged yet. It's a pretty good read, very concise work on a large product

File: 1486252332196.jpg (401KB, 1200x820px) Image search: [Google]

401KB, 1200x820px

>>52415655
So then how do I do it? Or is it an exclusive to the mage's club?

>>52416302
Aren't the Giovanni big time necromancers?

File: No Rest For The Dead.jpg (605KB, 900x900px) Image search: [Google]

605KB, 900x900px

>>52413313
>Shambling hordes with path of bones doesn't get any better as you increase along that path

There's a Combination Discipline that lets you make them tougher.

>Sharing the Master’s Vigor
>Dominate •••••, Necromancy •••
>This power costs 24 experience points to learn.

>Those who walk the Bone Path of Necromancy can summon grotesque zombie hordes to perform their will. For those few who have learned the secret of this power, those deathless guardians may be imbued with extra speed, strength, or toughness.

>SYSTEM: The player spends one blood point and rolls Wits + Occult. Each success allows him to imbue one zombie summoned through the Necromancy power Shambling Hordes (V20, p. 165) with a dot of a physical Discipline (Celerity, Fortitude, or Potence) that the necromancer possesses. For example, he may choose to spend two successes on the same zombie by giving him 1 Celerity and 1 Fortitude or 2 Celerity. However, the necromancer cannot share a Discipline rating higher than his own. For example, if Beniamino has Potence 2, but achieves three successes on his activation roll, he cannot give a zombie Potence 3. The zombie retains these abilities as long as it is animated.

How useful is Necromancy? It seems like I basically have to take the Sepulchre path, and the books don't actually have much info on how useful a ghost is. How easily can a ghost I summon kill me, and how can I use ghosts other than as spies? I'd like to be capable of being dangerous as a vampire, not JUST a ghost spy master, and definitely not as "that asshole who got turned to ash by Caspar the Not-So-Friendly-Ghost", since the flavor text implies ghosts basically hate you for being a necromancer.

>>52416843
that's a two combo discipline that requires three. And why does it require Dom5 when Dom has nothing to do with physical power? Do I Command their nonmuscles to work more efficiently? That's just terrible design.

File: 06900cd54241561d8b4ac7ad431ee22b.jpg (149KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

149KB, 600x600px

>>52417310
>And why does it require Dom5 when Dom has nothing to do with physical power?

Probably because it is actually a pretty awesome power, so it makes sense for it to have high requirements.

And Domination fits the theme: you might not like it, but the idea and theme of a VtM necromancer is about *control* over others and yourself, in a nutshell.

But yeah, with just some time, corpses and a bit of blood, you can essentially create an army of undead where each corpse can move with supernatural speed, can soak hits from fire and supernatural claws/fangs in addition to the usual stuff, or punch through brick walls.

Heck, there aren't even any penalties for failing or even botching the roll. With all that in mind, I would personally have made it Dominate 5 and Necromancy 5, and would have included at least a drawback if the played botched the roll, like the corpse immediately turning to dust or getting bonuses but then immediately attacking you.

As it is, with enough blood, you could just spam the power until you get the wanted results, night by night.

Plus, it's tailor-made for Giovanni characters (they start with Necromancy, Dominate and Potence), so stop sulking.

>>52417247
>the flavor text implies ghosts basically hate you for being a necromancer.

Well, you *are* a perversion of the natural order as a vampire... and then you pervert it even further by communing with both the dead and the living.

But, most ghosts won't be hostile towards you out-of-hand... on the other hand, the higher levels of the Necromancy powers deal less with "summon ghosts" and more with "great, now you already know how to summon ghosts, so here's how to force them to do your bidding, mwahahaha".

With just two points in the Sepulchre path you can summon and talk to ghosts just fine, and enter into partnerships, ask for favours, etcetera.

Not all ghosts *want* anything to do with the vampire, though. At least not if the vampire doesn't have anything useful to offer back to the ghost in question.

>>52417247
>how can I use ghosts other than as spies?

Send them to harass your enemies: while ghosts usually can't affect the material world in the long run, there are things they *can* do; hurling plates at a vampire's head when he thinks he's in complete safety at his haven, turn his oven to full during the day, and make the vampire and his haven burn... or just have the ghost whisper or scream in your opponents' ears and otherwise distract them, maybe even during important social events so that your enemies may end up embarassing themselves or other important vampires.

Some paths also deal with sucking soul energy from ghosts as a secondary "blood" source that you can use in lieu of blood for stuff like disciplines and whatnot.

How well do Geists and Vampires interact in 2e?

Was reading Dark Ages Companion when I came across this nice little Gem.

"Nat Turner’s sense of divine purpose did not end when he became the Beast Incarnate, willfully feeding on the Confederacy and Southern losses through Reconstruction and beyond."

That sounds like a Hero to me, not a Beast. Fucking Beast is shit always.

>>52417550
>>52416843
Book and page numbers plz, I need this.
Also how much of a detriment would it be to have Clan Giovanni as an enemy? I imagine it would be harder to study necromancy.
And is it generally allowed for modern vampires to take stuff from dark ages? Just wanted to ask, because I planned to play a fairly old 9th gen thats been in torpor with her husband(A friend who plans to play a tremere.)

>>52418014
They have nothing in common besides being loosely "undead". I imagine they don't really cross paths.

Okay, question here for the peoples

First off, whats everyone's favorite path of Blood Sorcery in oW? Necro/Thaum/Koldunic/whatever

Second, what is/are the most common paths to be taught to people who are not of the clan they are associated with? Whats most common to be taught among Anarchs?

>>52417550
>muh necro
that's bullshit justification for BAD design. Control OF dead is already a apart of necromancy. Dom has nothing to do with physical might or imparting it. How does CONTROLpeople + CONTROLdead = Super Zombies?

Not to mention it's a worthless rite unless you have another discipline. Just admit it's only written like that so only low gen giovanni would want/have it. If anything it should have been a Straight Necromancy rite.

>>52418107
>Book and page numbers plz, I need this.

V20 Lore of the Clans, p. 107.

>>52418107
>Also how much of a detriment would it be to have Clan Giovanni as an enemy?

Depends on where your characters are currently located. If you're in deep Sabbat territory, it probably won't be much of an issue (due to the Harbingers of Skulls and possibly the Kiasyd).

If you're near Italy and such in Europe, it's going to be a HUGE detriment.

If you're in the New World/America, it'd depend on whether there was a Giovanni compound nearby, or if the local mob had connections to the Giovanni.

>>52418107
>And is it generally allowed for modern vampires to take stuff from dark ages?

Sometimes (depends on the individual storyteller), though such characters rarely form groups with nenonates/fledglings (which are what most player-created characters start out as).

I'd advise against it really, unless you were all going to play a group of characters who hail from the Dark Ages.

Also, the Giovanni and the Tremere would NOT have had much reason to be around each other in the Dark Ages. Not saying it couldn't happen, but you'd need a better reason to justify it to either group of Elders than "we're married" or "it's true love".

>>52418107
>I imagine it would be harder to study necromancy.

For a long time, Giovanni (and the Cappadocians before them) were largely the only group of vampires who practiced Necromancy, and they enjoyed a monopoly on such activities.

While the art of necromancy is more widespread now, the Giovanni still aren't fond of anyone besides themselves who end up using Necromancy.

So, y'know, do what any sane vampire would do, and don't let anyone find out about your "I see dead people"-skills.

>>52418055
Another little bit:

"With this increased notice, hunters became a problem in a way that they hadn’t been since before the American Revolutionary War. Among these hunters was a lawyer from Springfield, regarded by some of the Kindred as their greatest threat in the New World. He had a surprising resistance to the effects of domination, and even an attempt to drive him to suicide through depression proved useless.
248
a fearful lesson
Especially in the South, further from the tight control of the Elders in New York City and closer to the future capital of unlife in the United States, New Orleans, the rise of this man to first the Republican nomination and ultimately to the presidency served as a shock"

Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter. I could expect this in OWoD, but not here. Fuck Beast.

>>52418055
I appreciated how that chapter basically pointed out Beasts fought for and against literally every side since their only defining feature is bitter anger in that period.

I think it would have been a better Demon chapter though to be honest with the war having fucked everything up for the GM.

>>52418374
>If anything it should have been a Straight Necromancy rite.

That's even worse design, because that'd make it horribly broken, anon.

>>52418374
>How does CONTROLpeople + CONTROLdead = Super Zombies?

"SHARING the MASTER'S VIGOR".

It's pretty self-explanatory.

Level five dominate is possession. The wording in the title and description and the level of discipline needed seems to imply that a portion of the caster's mind possesses the corpse(s), and through that connection, can link the inherent values of the physical disciplines to enhance the corpses' own powers.

>>52418429
How much influence would the Giovanni have in Las vegas? That's the only info we have from the storyteller so far.

File: War Ghoul.jpg (94KB, 355x500px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 355x500px

>>52414475
>pretty good

>>52418747
At least in fiction they do have a lot of influence in Las Vegas. Mostly through a minor family, IIRC.

>>52418624
Bullshit If a vampire Possesses the Mailman he can't use the vampire's Potence Dots. A vampire can have Absolute control someone, but you can't control something that isn't there. You're reaching.

>>52418747
given that that's a mob town, probably a lot

>>52418899
>Bullshit If a vampire Possesses the Mailman he can't use the vampire's Potence Dots. A vampire can have Absolute control someone, but you can't control something that isn't there. You're reaching.
Yeah that's what the Necromancy helps with. Good ol' blood magic.

>>52418501
To be fair, this was hinted in Hunter.

anybody here has a link to the Requiem 2nd Edition book? thanks in advance.

>>52420113
It's in the pastebin.

>>52420113
Its in the pastebin at the top, there's a mega with everything.

How useful are Bone Path zombies? They seem useless save as guardians, and they're not even really good for that- too weak and the instructions you can give them are limited and unchangeable.

Not to mention the whole "walking masquerade breach" thing.

>>52420409
Don't use them, you can get a fucking ghoul anytime. Undead-raising vampires are stupid fucking chumps; the entire concept of vampires in general is that they are, and create, much better undead than anything like that.

Speaking of VtM things, I'm not sure what the thematic difference between Mortis Path and Thanatosis is. They sound like different mechanics to express the same fluff.

>>52421142
They are not without use. Just nowhere near as versatile as mortal thrall or ghoul. But the whole doesn't need food or air thing speaks in their favor, so does willingness to take straight up suicidal commands.

I've found some neat home brew necromancy Paths, what does tg think of them?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MfCNRn1r2WCaYicaRHdd27oXLnVDbbpR2B0y59Jobmc/mobilebasic

http://dyingstylishly.blogspot.com/2016/05/salt-path-necromancy.html?m=1

http://dyingstylishly.blogspot.com/2016/04/clay-path-necromancy.html?m=1

Most notable is clay path, which makes bone-path a lot better- you can basically get perfectly loyal ghouls since if you get them early they can pass for alive at a glance.

File: tumblr_milsviGoDs1s6xdqwo1_500.jpg (61KB, 500x455px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 500x455px

So, what happens when a changling drink vampire blood? Can you have a changling ghoul?

>>52422326
Blood bond, no ghouldom though.
Also unless it's consensual, I can't see the Freehold being very happy about that.
Time to sharpen the stakes, and call upon Contracts with Fire.

>>52422377
It could be by mistake. All these fucking hidden societies walking around pretending to be normies when outdoors, there are bound to be mishaps.

>>52422413
>tfw you're a 1000 year old elder vampire and grab a mortal for a snack, only to find out he's a teen mage who awakened 2 years ago and curbstomps you

>>52422829
...And you think a 2 year old mage could curbstomp a Gen 3-5 Vampire...why, exactly?

Friendly reminder to ignore mageposters

>>52422845
Youthful energy

>>52422845
Probably because of mage wank. A newly awakened mage can kill Tzimisce with a half hours work according to some.

Meanwhile according to retards on the other spectrum, Archmasters can't hurt fledglings because the curse of Caine will make god destroy them.

The entire board slowly fills with curdled, rotten jizz, so much wanking goes on in these generals.

Has anyone here played a vampire Nevromamcer? How did you use it? And what did you like the most?

File: MageObrimos.jpg (96KB, 540x587px) Image search: [Google]

96KB, 540x587px

>>52422910
fuckoff mage fag no one cares about your small penis slipping out of Phil's asshole

>>52422947
I don't play mage. I play vampire.

File: sudariorefraction.jpg (73KB, 360x500px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 360x500px

>>52418810
Hey, I did specify
>can be

File: 3604.jpg (63KB, 363x500px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 363x500px

>>52423129
Fair enough. Right synergy can triumph over just beating face. Sometimes.

>>52422910
A newly awakened Mage can't do more than tell there is something there and the thing about it, and extremely minor tricks like lighting a match in Ascension

Unless you mean one who put BP into Arete, but that isn't a new mage that is a mage that has been around a while. All mages start at Arete 1. There isn't any bypassing that

>>52421142
Another alternative to necromancy is to make horrible abominations using Viscitude.

>>52422910
Mages in Ascension are all over the place in terms of power. A relatively weak mage is going to die to a relatively weak vampire.
It's the complete opposite when stronger individuals get involved. A mage mastering the Spheres at five dots Is capable of bringing down Methuselahs.

File: memoriesofmortality.jpg (34KB, 360x500px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 360x500px

>>52423183
Memories of Mortality being banned gimps them a fair bit but it's still a decent deck archetype imo. >>52423129 / Liquidation combo is ++good

File: Brucato speaks.png (146KB, 956x534px) Image search: [Google]

146KB, 956x534px

Disciplines, Gifts and Spheres are just not close to being balanced according to daddy Brucato.

>image
Here, have a taste of Phil.

>>52423372
But what if they had been? I guess what I want to know is, why do they NEED to be balanced so poorly? There's a big loss in cool setting crossover potential because of it.

>>52418363
Koldunic Sorcery is fucking busted and I love it.

Anyway, anarch blood magic is a complete mishmash. Rites of the Blood has a good chapter covering it.

File: 31P19nqp0lL._UX250_.jpg (11KB, 250x167px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 250x167px

Does the J-Man still write for WW?
Clanbook Giovanni was 100% 90s edge, I loved it

>>52421591
Thanatosis is written as an update of Mortis. The implication is supposed to be a connection between the Samedi and the Cappadocians, but it's up to the ST if they actually have anything to do with each other

>>52423427
Equality is disgusting. It wouldn't make sense for everything to be balanced. Why should vampires and werewolves be the equals of wizards and demons?

You can whine about it all you want, but it just doesn't make sense.

>>52423471
Justin Achilli's still doing some shit for Onyx Path, yeah. Prince's Gambit is his thing.

>>52423283

I'd really like to see that. Mages aren't fucking super-geniuses. A Methusalah is what...Gen2?

So let's say your Mage has five dots in relevant Spheres. He's still a human o his physical scores are <5 dots.

Methusalahs have on average 7 dots in any statistic, and their relevant statistic is 10. He's also near guaranteed to have 6-10 dot disciplines that completely fuck the mage.

>>52423502
Dots over 5 in your basic attributes (and Disciplines in general) really can't do much when you get nuked and or you decide to reflect the raw power of the sun with much weaker magic.

>>52423502
Methuselahs are Gens 4 and 5 usually.

>>52423427
Not everything is based around combat, anon. You can still have crossovers with splats more powerful than your own. Mages are the perfect wild cards; such as the mysterious mystic that the Prince will personally pay a visit to in desperate need of last-resort assistance.

>>52423519

I'd like to see the Mage get close enough for it to be relevant. Methusalahs are OLD. And invested with much more experience and cunning than a Mage who's been at it for a few years.

If you have a ST who lets your bullshit powerwank 17 year old Mage get even within the same BUILDING as a methusalah, you have a shit ST.

>>52423560
Why would you need to get close? You literally don't even need to cast spells to direct a missile. That tech is all consensus based, even if the nuke itself isn't.

>>52423494
Honestly the only balance should be XP costs. A power that shoots lazers that deal Damage according to firearm rules should cost less than a Mage Sphere

File: nooo-rsz.jpg (146KB, 600x400px) Image search: [Google]

146KB, 600x400px

>>52423501
>Prince's Gambit is his thing

>>52423560
>>52423502
It really depends on the Methuselah in question. Mages are not idiots, and a great many of them -are- brilliant individuals bordering on the superhuman themselves.

It only took five dots in Forces & Spirit to kill an Antediluvians, even lower if you count the condensed sunlight; which was used on one of the founders of Fortitude.

Masters are more than capable of killing them.

>>52423560
Ok, you are definitely among the 'biased vampfags' crowd. Every single time someone like you comes along the magefags proceed to shit out citations for their supremacy. You don't win these kinds of arguments.

>>52423560
>And invested with much more experience and cunning than a Mage who's been at it for a few years.

Not necessarily. Too broad of a statement to make.

>>52423363
Ironic how nostalgia over their mortal days gets the Vampire buttfucked by a bunch of shambling carcasses.

File: Radagast_the_Brown.jpg (48KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 300x300px

magefags can't calculate their way out of sucking Phil's dick and coughing on Phil scat

>>52423494
Prolly shouldn't open with that, but okay. Anyway , the problem isn't that the powerleevels are different, it's that it made it hard to thinking older stronger vampires as big deals, when there's things without that much buildup who could easily destroy them. Alsos people like comparing mages to vampires and usher in the fictional advantages

Reminder that it only takes Prime 6 to delete Disciplines via deleting Vampirism.

>>52423835
>""only""
>Prime 6
You can't use Only for that, fuck you

>>52423746
Hay, someone probably died of paradox to launch that nuke. A noble sacrifice to take out a dirty gypsy blooding reality deviant. Truly he is the real hero of Mage.

>>52423856
>>52423835

>Entropy 4, Life 4, Matter 4, Prime 6

It only takes Mind 4 to defeat Caine by giving him the needed therapy to work out all his problems so he'll be at peace

>>52423629
>>52423656
>>52423601

Yeah, but a Mage who's been at it for 2 years (the basis of this whole discussion) is not, by any means going to curbstomp a Methusalah.

Porthos, the Iconic Force '6' Mage, was over 500 fuckin years old. That's a fucking ETERNITY of study.

Methusalahs are usually over a thousand years old.

If you honestly think some street punk with a few dots in spheres could crush a Methusalah, you're fucking high.

>>52423936
Caine's stat block literally just says "You lose" in all categories.

File: saruman-the-white.jpg (171KB, 990x600px) Image search: [Google]

171KB, 990x600px

Magefags he's ready for you. Stripe and bend over for Phil

>>52423940
Reminder: this discussion didn't start at Methuselah, that was a badly moved goalpost some vampfag did.

>>52423954
>You Lose meme
This meme is so old and dumb and literally not even cannon. Why do people always bring up a fan sheet?

>>52423954
His joke stat block

>>52423969
>>52423960

I mean Curse of Caine already says you can't do shit to him.

You hit the dude with a bat, and God Himself fucking murders you.

File: madnessnetwork.jpg (49KB, 375x513px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 375x513px

>>52423671
There's a lot of weird/stupid combos you can pull off in VtES to bufu your opponents, some of which are bizarrely still legal for tournament play though

>>52418747
their don is a rival to the prince itself, so likely dangerous

>>52423985
That kind of reinforces that Caine was probably right, God's a fucking douchebag in WoD.

>>52423985
The 9 lives merit from literally every game easily gets around that. 7 fold isn't even enough to beat chargen powers, much less archmasters.

>>52423985
>Seven-fold curse
Easily bypassed or flat out removed using the above Prime 6 Rote.

The Prime 6 Rote works by removing God-driven curses and blessings. The Curse of Caine only works on Caine, not the curse itself. This has been brought up so much, it hurts.

>>52423954
>totally non-cannon fan made sheet with multiple different edits varying by year.

>>52423985
The curse rebounds harm. You could defeat him without harming him. Like a good session of therapy.

>>52424027

GET TO PRIME 6, FUCKBOY.

Literally the only Canon mage to ever go above 5 dots got there in HALF A MILLENIUM.

The last one-hundred discussions with Caine vs Archmage ended in the later winning over the vampire. Not even the original vampire can muster the vastness of the Arch-Spheres.

Then it went to God vs Archmage with no definite conclusion due metaplot inconsistencies.

>>52424048
>only Canon mage to go above 5 dots

You are fucking retarded

>>52424048
Okay but what magic can we use to do that half millennium by tomorrow? Don't tell me it can't be done.

File: The Unnamed.png (105KB, 341x522px) Image search: [Google]

105KB, 341x522px

The most powerful mage in canon blackened the entire universe whilst summoning lovecraftian horrors upon all reality.

>>52424048
>Literally the only Canon mage
I severely, SEVERELY doubt that

All of these faggoty Mahou shoujo cuntrags who love this mage shit and forget that there's huge inconsistencies in Mage-fluff.

>>52424084
>inconsistencies
So the entire oWoD setting then?

>>52424080
>Entropy 10

He's effectively omnipotent then

>>52424113
He's beyond Omnipotent.
Entropy 9 grants you the power to dictate the procession of time, choosing the exact timeline which eventuates out of the infinite stream of possibility.

This is one step beyond that.

So in Awakening, Archmages can use their normal Magic in any way they want without risking Pax Arcanum?
Unless that happens to be Time Magic and they basically decide to use Time 5 to just shit all over history?

File: ss+(2017-03-28+at+11.09.24).png (756KB, 1380x821px) Image search: [Google]

756KB, 1380x821px

Anyone used the Holy Engineers? I'm hoping to play around with the God-Machine as a background force in my Vampire game.

>>52424004
Isn't tournament play like... grand total of three dozens people across the globe that know each other on first name terms?

>>52424171
Pretty much. They can't do any of the real flashy stuff on the material plane.

>>52424171
What if you beat the mages and tell them NO, BAD all the time whenever they show signs of wanting to do stuff like that, while they learn? Like with a semi-flexy ruler.

>>52424080
Damn son, who is this crazy wizard?

File: GandalfLoreal.gif (214KB, 443x190px) Image search: [Google]

214KB, 443x190px

He loves it when magefags get it all up in his robes and hair. How else do you believe he became the white?

>>52424254
Abusive conditioning, to protect the universe? I'm sure that's the strategy of many orders.

File: Al-Aswad.jpg (29KB, 183x405px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 183x405px

>>52424262
His name is Al-Aswad, the Unnamed.

>>52424307
Hes so edgy he killed his own name.

>>52424307
>Called Al-Aswad
>Also calls himself the Unnamed
What a fucking tool

>>52424320
>>52424322
That's not actually his name. It represents his status as the founder and leader of the Aswadim, which is derived from him. Nobody knows his real name, he is either referred to as the former or as the Black Man.

File: Dres.jpg (116KB, 678x1023px) Image search: [Google]

116KB, 678x1023px

He loves cosplaying as a small young boy in a castle. and especial loves it when the head master rubs his staff and find his Harry

File: unnamed.jpg (126KB, 370x500px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 370x500px

>>52424357
He's also really fucking handsome.

File: loss.png (548KB, 625x790px) Image search: [Google]

548KB, 625x790px

>>52424219
I have no idea, I'm going to my first regional tournament next month that's 8 confirmed people so far, I'm really only going for nostalgic reasons.
To be honest, I haven't played a full game that wasn't in Lackey in over a decade. All my friends I used to play casual games with live across the country and/or died years ago.

>>52424192
The what now

>>52424192
>>52424573
Holy shit, so that's *another* reference to the God-Machine in first edition
God damn, I have a friend who's gonna be so pissed about this, but I'm fucking delighted

File: oKAAt6I.gif (499KB, 380x272px) Image search: [Google]

499KB, 380x272px

>>52424307
>Al Asswad

>>52424126
Its worse than that. When you reach 10 in a sphere you are, for all intents and purposes, your sphere.

This motherfucker is anything that can be called Fate with this level of Entropy. He decides the final position of a particle being observed. He makes the bread land jelly side down. Even if he's not consciously doing it, his subconscious is so potent that it conforms anyways. Literally the only thing that trumps him is capital G God, because God is the only being who effectively has all Arcana at 10, including the 10th sphere of Judgement.

This fucker is scary.

>>52424357
>or as the Black Man.

Well there's something you'd never seen out of modern OPP.

>>52424654
>10th sphere of Judgement
... What's that?

>>52423372
This is probably the first time I liked Brucato

>>52424698
Telos

>>52424654
>Bull shit about God
That's some nice unsupported fan fiction you have there.
Why do Christian's always think they're silly bible about an all powerful god is cannon to WoD?

>>52424718
This also tells me nothing.
I mean, what's the Judgement sphere about?
All I've heard of is the normal ones and Data.

>>52424725
He wasn't talking about God, anon. 10 dot Spheres are entirely "whatever the fuck you want"

>>52424727
Telos, the Sphere of Judgement was in the End Times book for Ascension.

>>52424698
Oh boy.

Its a clusterfuck

See, the 10th Sphere, tenatively dubbed Telos, is essentially the power of assigning a value to things, to judge them good or bad or whatever, and thus shape the metaphysical nature of things.

If you used Mage Sight in this sphere, you'd basically be able to see what Capital G God thinks about anything at any given time. With higher levels of it, you could start forcing things to conform to God's Plan, predict the outcomes of "The Way Things Should Be", and command Angels and other Heavenly Beings/States/Things. At Mastery you could literally start making Angels, commanding the Tapestry to bend over your knee so you can spank it, and literally start to, in theory, rewrite God's Plan or make your own with enough time, effort and resources (a metric fuckton).

And Capital G God is an Ascended Archmaster of it (10 ranks of the fucking thing).

>>52424725
Capital G God is not the Christian God. Hell, Captial G God may not even exist anymore. The making of Creation might have been suicide for the dude. Its SOMETHING beyond Gaia, beyond the god that cursed Caine, something beyond the Earth and the Outer Chaos. Its what weaved the Tapestry, which may very well be its corpse. Its the paradox mages feel when they push too far past the rules of reality. Its what made the Angels (and by extension, Demons). It is the being that set things into motion and then, for whatever reason, left.

>>52424654
>Literally the only thing that trumps him is capital G God

Debatable when Masters of the Art is considered.

>>52424357
>The Black Man
WE WUZ ASWADIM AND SHIET

>>52424938
tired meme is tired

>>52424307
he was become in the ur-shurgli childe right?

>>52425009
You're thinking of the one-eyes sorcerer Al-Ashrad.

Al-Aswad is noticeably more ancient than any Methuselah.

What does /tg/ think of Nagajara and Paths/Roads?

I'm thinking of being one, because I like necromancy, monstrosity, and not having to fuck little dead nieces like the Giovanni, but given that the Nagajara have to eat human flesh, well, that's a bit awkward in the humanity sense. I'd like to not become unplayable immediately because of eating human flesh or carving up people to eat them, so I kinda need to go down a Path or Road.

Best bet seems the Path of the Feral Heart (disdains politics a little, which is awkward for a social cha), Path of Bones (wording is wonky, may or may not be a sin to protect myself from death, definitely a sin to protect my party members), or the Road of the Beast grey stalker path (would need a mentor old enough to be on a road)

Either way, necromancy ho! Might have a funeral director as a ghoul.

>>52425051
ah, it's other person. Sorry, i tink they are the same.

>>52425066
why not path of iner voice or path of lilith, btw, i like the nagaraja like npc

>>52425009
That is literally impossible. Al-Aswad bows to no one. He would pick up Caine and spank him.

>>52424986
This is thrown around a lot. I wish he would have written for the other three Spheres. Mind 9 is particularly terrifying.

>>52425148
i don't know much about mage lore, were i can find about this badass motherfucker

File: magefagsOfTheArt.png (85KB, 908x440px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 908x440px

Kill yourself

>>52425172
See >>52424080

>>52425189
Archmagic is hard. Gee, who knew?

>snicker

>>52425123
Voice is an interesting angle- Nagaraja are usually solitary, but it's hardly guaranteed- Lilith however is tedious at best, and I've little interest in playing a masochist.

>>52425202
¿there is nothing more?

>>52425243
Read the End Times Ascension book.

It's the Hell on Earth scenario.

>>52425241
you know what... Scorched Heart

File: dumbledore.gif (2MB, 498x280px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 498x280px

Mages sucks and you need to get over the Fact you are sexually attracted to men in pointy hats

File: 89128475685.jpg (65KB, 1298x265px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 1298x265px

>>52425189
>>52425228
>Archmagic
>Hard

Until ye old Wonders come into the picture.

>>52425291
>never allowed to feel emotions
But emotions are fun. Pure rationality is boring.

>>52425066
I'm kind of split on Paths - I think they go against the point of the game in some ways, but there are plenty that aren't at direct odds to humanity

Wanga and Voudoun Necromancy are probably your safest bet if you're not sold on Nagaraja. Check out the Serpents of the Light.

Either that or you can play a Harbinger of Skulls.

This thread got derailed because of ONE SINGLE VAMPFAG

I legit hate all of you

Gone and good-bye peace out fuckwads

Can someone clear up for me how torpor works in VtM? So as I understand it once you're staked, take a major amount of damage, or enter it willingly you are down and out for a set amount of time based on your humanity. Once that time is passed you spend blood to try to wake, if you don't have enough you can't wake unless someone feeds you. But can you be woken early from torpor if you enter it willingly? Are you always out for a set amount of time or can you intentionally extend that period? When you're unstacked does the time period start from there?

>>52425365
vampfags, magefags can live thogeter anon, the most important tink is the worl of darkness itself

>>52425365
>one single vampfag

Isn't it amazing how one misinformed autist can ruin something?

>>52425359
Some paths are definitely better than others- Honorable Accord, Metamorphasis, Feral Heart, and Bones are all pretty good. Caine isn't bad, same with Voice or Orion or Night/Sin. The rest are... eeeh. The best paths are those that make you alien and inhuman, the worst make you a gibbering asshole.

>>52425503
I like Paradox and Entelechy, personally. But yeah, exactly.

as i said before, The Path of the Scorched Heart is the best for a nagaraja, be a coldblood schoolar fix perfect in a serial killer seeker of ancient secrets

File: Carnival Melancholy.png (251KB, 1018x1500px) Image search: [Google]

251KB, 1018x1500px

Does anyone else like The Carnival Melancholy?
Nobody ever really seems to mention them.

They're psycho Acanthus Reaper showmen who burn out people's souls for good luck.

>>52425570
Path of Bones is better for that, death focused as it is. It practically is a serial killer Path already. And it means he can actually enjoy it.

>>52425679
but anon, killing is a sin in the path of bones

>>52425679
sorry you are right, i read wrong the path of bones.
i hear it's only giovanni/cappadocian but i fail before

>>52425722
No, accidentally killing someone is a rank 8 sin.

NOT killing someone when the opportunity arises is a level 5 sin.

According to V20 anyway.

>>52425758
No problem.

And while it's most Giovanni, it's not exclusive-there's a Sabbat variant for one.

>>52424080
Nah, he's not canon. It was made pretty clear that only the first scenario with Voormas is really canonical.

>>52425816
...That's not Voormas.

>>52425805
the path of death and soul, i belive

>>52425816
Everything in the End Times books are considered canon. They're possible futures of what may come to pass. Nothing more.

20th anniversary editions are running with the assumption that it didn't happen. Yet.

So, how 'bout them Obrimos?

>>52424065
There are a handful of canonical Ascension mages who have Spheres above 5. The Unnamed is from a shitty optional adventure and is never mentioned beyond a footnote in the Book of Madness as a legend, and never appears in any books doing anything before Ascension, so he doesn't count. There's Voormas, Porthos, Medea, if I remember right, and I think there's a Spirit 6 Dreamspeaker. There's Senex, too. So we're talking about a whopping 1-2 per Tradition, none of whom have more than 6 dots except for one iteration of Voormas in the final Ascension adventure, and none of whom have more than one over rank 5. The arguments for bigger stuff exist in a single book which, if I remember right, has been deprecated by both Brucato and the dev who worked on it.

File: Acanthus.png (433KB, 648x864px) Image search: [Google]

433KB, 648x864px

>>52425886
I see your Obrimos and raise you one Acanthus.

>>52425952
>so he doesn't count

You just lost all of your credibility.

File: Nagaraja.jpg (219KB, 961x1292px) Image search: [Google]

219KB, 961x1292px

>>52425066
>What does /tg/ think of Nagajara

Nagaraja are awesome.

They also get a short write-up in the new V20 Lore of the Bloodlines. There's some interesting Nagaraja-only merits and stuff there.

>Extra Sharp (2pt. Merit)

>All Nagaraja already have sharpened fangs for the purposes of cutting into flesh with ease. A character with this Merit, however, has additional rows of fangs, similar to a shark, each one poised to inflict the most pain possible. Instead of dealing 1 unsoakable lethal damage per bite, they deal 2 lethal instead. Some Nagaraja like this gift since it makes their victims stop squirming much quicker. Others fear it creates a connection to the painful bite of the Giovanni, and may see Nagaraja with this Merit almost as outsiders.

>Speed Eater (2pt. or 4pt. Merit)

>The vampire’s jaws have been strengthened to allow for faster devouring of one’s prey. For 2 points, he can devour 2 blood points worth of flesh per minute, or he may devour 3 blood points worth for 4 points. Must have at least Stamina 3 in order to gain this Merit. Otherwise, his undead form cannot support the influx of blood and viscera at such a fast pace.

>Wolverine’s Palate (3pt. Merit)

>Though many do not know this, the dreaded wolverine is one of only a few creatures in the world that can eat their prey entirely, whether larger or smaller. The Nagaraja with this Merit has the ability to eat bone just as easily as flesh, sapping even more spiritual essence from her victim and converting it to blood points. With one bite, she can cut through flesh and bone and swallow it all at once with no ill effect. This also means she may gain up to 5 additional blood points from a body by consuming the bones.

>>52426015
Oh awesome, I didn't know about that, thanks!

>>52425965
>raise you one Acanthus.

Well, anything is better than those dour Moros and whore Thyrsus.

>>52426015
Can Nagaraja drink blood and eat flesh, or just the flesh?

Because if I gotta eat a dude every time I spend blood, I'm gonna kill vast quantities of people.

>>52425886
They have so many fucking Legacies, I swear to God.

>>52425965
What a poor quality Acanthus, she can't even get someone to cure her cancer.

>>52426107

I don't believe Obrimos have more published legacies than any other Path, nor are their Legacies necessarily fan favorites.

However, I agree that Lucy Sulphate is a piss poor Acanthus. Luckily, she's probably already dead from her cancer, and we can find some new signature Acanthus.

Someone help, my group wants to start a Hunter campaign and I've never played WoD before. I'm trying to read the corebook but there's a solid thirty pages of cringe repelling me.

>>52426289
fuck the book.
grab a character sheet
stat a human 2, 3 is average in anything 5 is human perfect
ask help for merits and freebies
kill your st

>>52426289
Ignore the fluff. Skip to the sections on character creation and how to roll, that's literally all you need.

>>52426078
Just the flesh. It's the whole point of the weakness.

>>52426078
>Can Nagaraja drink blood and eat flesh, or just the flesh?
>Because if I gotta eat a dude every time I spend blood, I'm gonna kill vast quantities of people.

They *do* drink regular blood just fine, they're still vampires after all, but every night they go without eating flesh, their lose one die from their physical attribute, and this is cumulative, meaning that for every night they go without eating flesh they grow weaker and weaker in terms of strength/stamina/dexterity until they have only a single dot in each physical attribute.

So, you don't *have* to kill someone in order to feed, but you'll probably have to kill someone occasionally and ritually preserve their corpse and feed on thrm for a week or two so that you can keep your die pools full.

If you're playing a more "Humane" Nagaraja, you're still going to drop rapidly on the Humanity scale... but, you could do your best to only target certain "bad" people for flesh-consumption, like violent gangbangers, abusive pimps, drug-dealers, rapists, etcetera.

From a purely logical point of view, it makes the most sense to just feed on the homeless, penniless junkies or prostitutes and such, to avoid suspicion.

>>52426788
The Nagaraja require raw flesh in addition to blood to survive. For every night a Nagaraja goes without consuming flesh, he loses one cumulative die from all his Physical dice pools. Eating one point worth of flesh restores one die to these pools until the vampire has “caught up.” A human body has 10 “flesh points,” which work just like blood points: A Nagaraja consuming one flesh point increases his blood pool by one. Unlike blood points, however, taking a “flesh point” from a vessel does one health level of unsoakable lethal damage to that vessel. The flesh the Nagaraja consume must be relatively fresh, though not necessarily “alive.” Indeed, some Nagaraja keep stores of ritually preserved corpses in their havens. This weakness does not allow them to eat food or consume other liquids.

>raw flesh in addition to blood to survive
>in addition
Here's the confusion.

It also doesn't specifically mention you can't drink blood- just "other liquids", which isn't as clear as I'd like.

Also, if you had to murder someone every time you need blood in addition to 1/10th of a human every night, well, you're murdering at minimum 37 people, and if you need to eat more to regain blood- well, that could easily double or triple that number- a single vampire killing 74 or 111 people a year is pretty unsustainable for the masquerade. So unless you're in a traveling game, being a Nagaraja is impossible.

>>52426816
This is what I thought. Frankly, I'm going for a Path of Enlightenment if I can. So I can stay, you know, sane. Plus ghoul a funerary director.

>>52425952
the "Dreamspeaker" is a Hermetic, Ishaq ibn-Thoth, the last Archmage of the Order post-Reckoning

What books describe at least some of the Lower Depths? I take it Inferno is one of those books and I also remeber some creature from there is described in Seers of the throne book.

>>52426869
Mage 2nd Edition has some passages, as has the Archmage book.
If you run with the assumption that Duat is one of the Lower Depths, Dreams of Avarice might be good inspiration

>>52426878
I will look it up. Thanks mate

>>52426843
>a single vampire killing 74 or 111 people a year is pretty unsustainable for the masquerade.

Well, the Camarilla thinks the idea of being forced to resort to murdering mortals for food is in itself unsustainable for the Masquerade (though realistically, we all know every vampire probably ends up going through as many corpses as the average Nagaraja, if not more). It's why the Nagaraja are usually treated as kill-on-sight in many Camarilla cities.

>>52426978
That doesn't match up with the V20 fluff at least. It's specifically mentioned that the Nagaraja work with the Camarilla when in their territory, and the Camarilla sees the Nagaraja as useful mercenaries for ghost-problems.

>>52426978
That is quite a lot of people.
>The Home Office Homicide Index showed there were 518 homicides (murder, manslaughter and infanticide) in the year ending March 2015 in England and Wales. This represents a decrease of 5 offences (1%) from the 523 recorded for the previous year.

I know this is WoD/CofD but I decided to run with it. UK population in 2015 was around 65 million. If I would assume something I saw around this board ie 1 vamp for 30k people we would still get over 2000 vampires in UK. If every vamp would kill 1 person a year homicide statistics would quadruple

>>52426843
Oh, I misunderstood you. I thought you were asking if it was an either/or situation

>>52424254
Poison is the only way to deal with Mage players.

>>52427121
To be fair, the World of Darkness is just that- a nastier, more miserable world. Crime is more rampant, organized and otherwise. Corruption is deeper and more entrenched in government. Violence is more common, cities darker and more run down. It's a worse world in every way, dragged down by the supernatural bloodsuckers and other assorted monsters that bump in the night.

So there are generally more murders.

>>52427156
Fair enough.

With the way the world currently works the Masquerade is practically a miracle.

Ascension does it better. Much better.

>Paradox and consensual reality

>>52425421
>mage players start shitting all over the place the moment anyone anywhere mentions crossover play and mages
>more than half this thread is mage players wanking hard enough to draw blood
>It's the vampfags!

Ok.

>>52427226
>>52427219
Absolutely fucking no. We're having a lovely discussion about Nagaraja and mass murder cannibalism. Shut your fucking holes.

Mage players. Don't respond. We've been through this shit already. Let it die.

>>52427226
>evident vampfag post

You're not helping

>>52427255
I don't play either game!

I'm just fucking sick of mageshit taking up 3/4 of every thread!

Whatever, fine.

>>52416414
>Giovanni

You mean the Cappadocian?

aka I just came out of torpor - did I miss something?

>>52427266
The vampfags are at least as bad, calm down.

Take no sides.

>>52427219
It'd be pretty funny if there were great subcommunities of people who had run into vampires on the internet, dismissed as nutjobs by the mainstream, who the vampires miss because they're awful at computers.

I honestly laugh every time I imagine Elders and Methuselahs trying to figure out modern computers. Just imagining some ancient, inhuman monster crouched over a laptop, with a look of mixed frustration, confusion, and slight anxiety as they slowly punch in keys one at a time, as a younger vampire instructs them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzuMwNmH9Vo&t=62s

>>52427271
Woah. Uh. Bad news buddy- the Italians ate them.

Except some of them may or may not have become black (and then rotted even more) pagans, and some others burst out of the underworld a few decades ago mad as hell, and, uh.

Yeah, long story short, it's a whole story.

Just... don't ask what the Giovanni are like. They're all bankers, they love the pope, and they fuck children, corpses, and family.

>>52427290
You're just making shit up, childe... right?

How does Promethean 2e compare to 1e. I had hard time comming up with ideas for it so I didn't give it a try. Does 2ed improve on anything?

>>52427296
No, sadly not. They're... they're honestly pretty much the worst.

I also have some bad news about the Salubri if you missed that. Long story short- fuck wizards.

Then there's the whole Sword of Caine vs. the Camarilla thing...

Well lots has happened.

We found two new continents, on the upside!

>>52427276
Losing this is why I don't like the new version of rising from torpor in VtR2e. Now they're all like eight year olds with smartphones.

Shit sucks.

>>52426843
It means they're only equipped to eat people and don't otherwise get Eat Food for free.

>>52427276
Think of your experience as tech support for your family. Think of them as 200 years older, able to bury you alive for the month if they become upset for any reason, and doing this for them was their whole reason for your being born.

>>52427306
*drinks vitae from a glass with shaking hands*

R-really? Haha!
I mean we are safe from these kind of kindred, huh?

*nervously looks at you*

Surely you made all the precations to ensure my safe awakening..?

>>52427276
I tend to do it as a background event in my games
>elders vs technology
>Childe I have no time for your prattle for I'm improving my skills in using calculating machines of mortals. Thanks to them I will be able to run this domain be....<DOOM music starts playing>I have no idea where that is comming from now begone!

>>52427337

*notices your generation*

OwO what's this

*diablerizes you*

>>52427337
Don't worry elder, we're good- We're on the internet, which is a mystical realm discovered by this new kinda wizard. They let us wake you here in return for- well, long story short, they wanted us to get the ghost of a guy named Neil Armstrong back- cool guy, walked on the moon as a mortal. Anyway, nobody can get us here.

The Tremere especially- which is good, since they diablerized Saulot. Evil awful blood wizards, the lot of them. Doesn't help the other elders all jumped on board with them after the First Anarch Revolt and made the Camarilla... fucking Tremere.

>>52427348
Ignore him, he's not here, he's- it's, uh, best to think of the internet like a book many people can write in. He's not present, just writing in it, while we are physically in the book. He's just trying to bother you.

And I'm bloodbound, so no worries there.

>>52427009
>That doesn't match up with the V20 fluff at least.

It does match up, it's just that while yes, there are cities that welcome Nagaraja on account of the whole "FUCKING GHOSTS! RAAAH!"-problem, there are also cities that kill them as a matter of principle.

V20 Lore of the Bloodlines mentions that the latter is more common than the former, but that smart Nagaraja usually find a way to ply their trade even in some cities that would usually call Bloodhunts on them out of principle.

It doesn't change the fact that there's a reason Nagaraja don't advertise their presence, though.

>>52427331
>Sire I need help to kill the Necromancer!
>Equip high Fire-resistance shield. Skeletons won't respawn after you kill him so just dodge them
>What?

>>52427348
>>52427374
>Ignore him, he's not here, he's- it's, uh, best to think of the internet like a book many people can write in. He's not present, just writing in it, while we are physically in the book. He's just trying to bother you.

Oh, it seems I tore apart that internet machine.
Whatever, I'll use that other far-to-talk-smart-speaker thing instead.

>The Tremere especially- which is good, since they diablerized Saulot. Evil awful blood wizards, the lot of them. Doesn't help the other elders all jumped on board with them after the First Anarch Revolt and made the Camarilla... fucking Tremere.

Is there a way to punish these misbehaving childer?

>And I'm bloodbound, so no worries there.

I assure you, your loyalty will not go unrewarded!

(If you can get me another internet machine, you might have another pint of my vitae, by the way)

>>52427348
Fuck this made me laugh

>>52427469
You won't be laughing when Gehenna hits the fan, sonny boy.

>>52427455
N-no sir, we are actually INSIDE the Internet, the machine just gets- yes sir, we have a supply for just this sort of thing- it's natural you'd have some frustration after so long.

>Punish
Welllll- I mean, considering your substantial power, I'm sure you can, sir, but the rest of us- well, not so much. The Tremere are ensconced in "Chantries"; magically protected havens in which they gather. The Camarilla- consisting of the Clans Gangrel, Ventrue, Tremere (yes, they're acknowledged as a clan, the Salubri are now considered demon-worshippers and divided- the warriors serve the Sword of Caine, and the healers are independent and very rare), Toreador, Nosferatu, Brujah, and Malkavian. The Tremere are considered a bedrock clan of the Camarilla, and thus are protected very strongly even beyond their own protections.

The Sword of Caine, also known as the Sabbat, do loath and hunt the Tremere. Indeed, the first part of a Sabbat assault on a Camarilla city is destroying the Chantry!

... unfortunately, the Sabbat are, well... the Camarilla are much like a more organized form of the old Clans- Elders rule, served by their childer. Princes lead cities, elders advise, so on and so on.

The Sabbat gather in many "packs", bound by a special bloodbond that binds all members of a pack to each other at once, and immunizes them to other bonds. The packs then cooperate together under so called Bishops, under Archbishops, under Cardinals. Age has some influence, but Elders get no respect for age alone, and indeed the Sabbat were formed by the Anarch remains of the First Anarch Revolt, when Childer rose against their elders. They diablerized Tzimisce and Lasombra, actually, or so they claim. They're... less virulently anti-elder than they once were, as the founders have grown into elders themselves, but now they dedicate themselves to the destruction of the Antedeluvians, to prevent Gehenna.

They're also a tad... psychotic.

>>52427532
In... familiar terms, most of them follow the Roads of the Beast, of Evil, and of Metamorphosis. They disdain humanity or any religion save their own brand of doomsday cult.

The Camarilla and Sabbat loath each other, and have been fighting over the New World and Old World since their respective creations.

>>52427266
Continue to be complicit then, don't fight for the change you want, so sayth the seers

File: 4uGJXyY.png (119KB, 1000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 1000x1000px

>>52427532
>mfw all my Salubri bros are now dead
>the survivors - if any - are considered to be demon worshippers (I mean what the hell, that's just pure bullshit)
>those goddamn usurpers "are considered a bedrock clan of the Camarilla, and thus are protected very strongly even beyond their own protections"
>wtf I hate the Camarilla now
>Sabbat kindred are" tough blood drinker" wannabes and role-players with sire issues (back in my time kindred were tough guys by default)
>they even diablerize their own makers and antediluvians
>wtf I hate the Sabbat, too
>I'm too old for this shit
>my feet hurt
>I just want to go back to torpor

*drinks another bottle vitae*

All right, son, fetch my sword!

>>52427585
Isn't there the Inconnu or something like that in VtM

>>52427585
Riiiiight, I suppose now I should tell you about firearms.

Long story short- imagine a bow that fires lead slingshot as fast as an elder specialized in celerity can punch. Now imagine they can fire dozens of these shots in a second.

Mortals have made some very terrible weapons.

Swords still work great on vampires though! Bullets are pretty eh against us, as long as we don't get shot too much, or in the head.

Also there are 7 billion mortals, so getting found out is bad for us.

>>52427608
if you want to spend your unlife watching others doing shit while being vague and searching for this "Golconda" meme

>>52427266
>I'm just fucking sick of mageshit taking up 3/4 of every thread!

Welcome to /MtA/ please enjoy your stay

>>52427610
What's a billion?

>>52427610
>Riiiiight, I suppose now I should tell you about firearms.
>Long story short- imagine a bow that fires lead slingshot as fast as an elder specialized in celerity can punch. Now imagine they can fire dozens of these shots in a second.
>Mortals have made some very terrible weapons.

*looks at you with a tired, drunken gaze*

N-no problem.
I'll just use my infinite wealth to overcome all the obstacles.

I mean... we still have that money, right?

>Swords still work great on vampires though! Bullets are pretty eh against us, as long as we don't get shot too much, or in the head.

No mortal can challenge my superiority!

*aimlessly wanders around the room, seraching for new bottles*

>Also there are 7 billion mortals, so getting found out is bad for us.

Good! GOOD!
More sons of Set to devour!

*mumbles about mortals and other annoying stuff*

Next time you'll say that people can fly!
Nonsense!

>>52427627
So they are like monitors from dc comics?
>We should do something!
>Should we do something?
>My face is tired

>>52427636
Ok
First imagine a castle. then imagine powerful forge inside the castle. Now imagine the Castle in the Sky being powered BY the forge inside.

>>52427632
1000 millions.

>>52427636
>I mean... we still have that money, right?
Wellll, yes and no. On the one hand, yes, we invested it in stocks- er, buying parts of a company- a... merchant cooperative. You own a company called Apple, which we've been using to corrupt and influence the mortals. So you're very, very rich. On the other hand... folks pay attention to money now. If we spend lots on, say, arming an army, mortals will notice.

>searching for new bottles
Check the large metal square in the corner sir- it's a refrigerator- wonderful thing, it uses tamed electricity to keep things cold. Like blood bottles!

Oh, right, the mortals tamed electricity. That's... that's a very, very long conversation there.

>people can fly
Um. Sir. Not only is flight possible, it's a very common form of travel. You can go from Indus to Rome in blank hours.

The mortals even managed to travel out towards the stars. A mortal man- the Neil Armstrong I mentioned earlier- planted a flag from his home country of America (descendants of the descendants of the tribes of Britain sir) on the Moon.

They've recently landed a... lightning powered golem on Mars, actually.

>>52427642
they are the original conspiracy inside the conspiracy meme

>>52427668
>10 hours
Sorry sir, the Internet can get loud when the shitposters come out to play. Damn trolls. Good for guarding the perimeter, not good for peace and quiet.

>>52427681
>Trolls
Wait Last I heard those *looks to the side almost expectantly* were coughcough Do we have any spare Iron lying around?

On that thought. where is the silvery?

File: iVUarfp.png (87KB, 714x810px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 714x810px

>>52427668
*gives up the search for bottles*
*sites down on the edge of the sarcophagus*

>Wellll, yes and no. On the one hand, yes, we invested it in stocks- er, buying parts of a company- a... merchant cooperative.

All right. All right.
That's good.

>You own a company called Apple, which we've been using to corrupt and influence the mortals

Apple - seriously?
Is this supposed to be some kinda Edenic reference?

>So you're very, very rich.

Well done, childe.
I'm proud of you.

>On the other hand... folks pay attention to money now. If we spend lots on, say, arming an army, mortals will notice.

I'm an ancient blood drinker, remember?
Surely I can handle mortals with shooting sticks.

Also we might need slaves.
Lots of slaves.

>Check the large metal square in the corner sir- it's a refrigerator- wonderful thing, it uses tamed electricity to keep things cold. Like blood bottles!

*opens the fridge, sips a bit of blood*

This vitae is cold! COLD!
Shall I drink from corpses in this age, too?!

>Um. Sir. Not only is flight possible, it's a very common form of travel. You can go from Indus to Rome in blank hours.

*can't even understand the words, too confused*
*mumbles about a mortal woman he loved millenia ago*

>They've recently landed a... lightning powered golem on Mars, actually.

Did I ever tell you how I confronted this bold Brujah long before the fell of Carthage?
Hahaaa - he thought he can stop me with his pathetic powers, but I outsmarted him and...

*continues to tell you inconsistent tales about his youth*

>>52427707
No sir, these are Internet trolls, they're... a bit like...

Well they feast on rage and do their best to drive men mad with fury. They're very good at it. But if you ignore them, they'll leave you alone. Don't listen to anything they say.

>>52427721
>Edenic
I don't know sir.

>proud
Thank you very much sir. I was literally embraced to serve you, so I am very glad.

>Surely I can handle mortals with shooting sticks.
Ah, well... it's not just mortals, sir. Though again, there are a very large number of them.

No, it's the vampires- the modern sort believe that human outnumber us so much they could destroy us- possibly so, as well- and so they enforce the "Masquerade". Basically, they try and destroy anyone that could reveal vampires to the mortals. Mortals no longer believe vampires exist. Very handy sir.

Also the mortals have something called nuclear bombs sir. They discovered the very building blocks of reality, called "atoms". These things are incredibly, insanely small, but contain great energy if split. The mortals discovered how to do this, and, well. The first, and weakest of these devices destroyed a pair of cities, killing hundreds of thousands. They've got several thousand weapons of the same sort, but magnitudes stronger now. Many estimate they could kill all life on earth should they chose. Luckily, the mortals are smart enough not to kill, well, everything in a holocaust of fire and radiation (invisible poison fire created by said atom splitting that lingers for centuries).

>This vitae is cold! COLD!
>Shall I drink from corpses in this age, too?!
I'm very sorry sir- but it was quite difficult collecting enough elder vitae to sustain an ancient such as yourself, and so it was decided- not by me of course, but by your grandchilder- that we should store it and build up a repository so you may be restored fully. And cold is the best way to keep the blood fresh sir.

>>52427854
>I don't know sir.

It's all right.

*he waves his hand jokingly, but something's wrong - he looks at you with surprisingly clear eyes*

>Thank you very much sir. I was literally embraced to serve you, so I am very glad.

You're a good kid, Urhamsi.
My favourite childe, indeed!

*You're not Urhamsi. In fact, you have no idea who he is.*

>No, it's the vampires- the modern sort believe that human outnumber us so much they could destroy us- possibly so, as well- and so they enforce the "Masquerade". Basically, they try and destroy anyone that could reveal vampires to the mortals. Mortals no longer believe vampires exist. Very handy sir.

Back in my time we hunted these bastards wherever we wanted!
You know who were the real threat? Those damned wolves! Now they were something.

Anyway... where was I?
Ah yes - about mortals.
I tell you: me and my maker drank entire villages without even getting hurt.
And now you're telling me my own kind makes us hiding in the shadows?

No, thank you.
I do what I want.
You know what? We're going to drink a thousand mortals TONIGHT!
Just you and me, son.

>Also the mortals have something called nuclear bombs sir.

Bah!
We also had these tales about Baali and other made up monsters.
None of these exist. Thes boogey man are for misbehaving childer... you're better than them and you bloody know it.

>Luckily, the mortals are smart enough not to kill, well, everything in a holocaust of fire and radiation (invisible poison fire created by said atom splitting that lingers for centuries).

My maker told me the exact same thing, you know.
"Boo-hoo, Gehanna shall come and Cain will judge us!"
Come on, you know these are just fairy tales!

>And cold is the best way to keep the blood fresh sir.

Oh, well, never mind.
As I said: we'll have this little feast tonight anyway.
So - I say we go now and hunt some young people first. You can have the females, just like in those old nights!

>>52427854
>Trolls
AH so that, uh I mean This is where they've gone. Lock in a machine cage. like a specter haunting a tortoise shell or something. umm do you know what bargain they lost out in to trap themselves in here. *strums his mattered main* Actually on second thought best not look a gift horse in the mouth. Have I ever told you about the flamed scaled lizards of the coast or the walking wood ents of the black forest? But in all seriousness Haha take that thrice damnable fae Look whos singing now! *a jaunty square dance with a strumming air lyre *

Oh to have your annoyance silenced in an instant. Let this be a lesson to you child, why fight your enemies when you can out live them? Bring out the good blood, do you have blonde on tap?

Tell me your towers and cities. what forfeited wall can hold 7million cattle?

>>52427998
Well sir, there's the New York Metropolitan area, which has roughly 23 million Kine sir. Mexico city holds roughly the same amount. Tokyo- the capital city of Japan, once known as Nippon- holds 37 million kine, and is the largest of cities... indeed, it was Japan that had the bombs dropped on them sir. Though if you say they are rumors, they must be. I admit I was not alive when those events occurred.

As for mortal food- sir, we do have several dozen kidnapped kine if you wish. They are in the coffins sir. They ARE currently drugged unconscious sir- so I can flush their systems if you wish to drink them sir. Drinking them now would be much like drinking several dozen drunken mortals- likely to know a normal vampire unconscious, at least.

And sir, I should note the kine outnumber us roughly 100,000 to one. Your direct childer would be best suited to explain that, of course, being far wiser than me and closer to your own wisdom than I am by far.

>sweats nervously as the terrifying Methuselah grows more incoherent

S-should you wish to go into the mortal world sir, just say the word and I shall signal my elders to open the way out. I, uh, do suggest you fill up on vitae sir so as to be at your fullest- many younger vampires would be very eager to diablerize you and it is best if you are at your best sir. U-unless you don't want to of course.

>>52423494
Why did Tremere become a fucking vampire then? They are mages who basically only use a different set of magic rules for balance purposes within Vampire, and it makes no fucking sense, both that they do that and that the clan's founders would want to be vampires at all.

>>52428083
Well, A. remember the gamelines are at least nominally separated. Could be in vampireland mages are a tad more shit.

B. lorewise, Tremere fucked up. He wanted to use vampires to make a better form of immortality, as his old one wasn't working anymore due to Consensus shifts. He tried to utilize the Curse of Caine to develop a new one- but unfortunately even for powerful mages (not archmaster, let's not go there, it's probably easy for them whatever) a curse made by God is no small thing to fuck with. So it backfired, and he and all his apprentices and servants wound up as vampires. So he panicked and bam, Saulot diablerized, hello thaumaturgy.

>>52428116
Heh this is why I like Tremere from CofD more both from Vampire and Mage perspective

>>52428063
*Already has a blonde in one hand and a brunet in the other drinking*
What's that? you say? I'm tasting something maybe a lotus a dew or honey. What is Drugged?

23 Mills you save. Well that is certainly a lot of grain to grind. "NEW" York. what happened to the regular York? Take me to the Lift I wish to stand in the center of town. I tell you it's an odd feeling sometimes. Silence with so many heartbeats pulsing all around and their minds drifting to the dreamlands. *grumples* (and those damnable fae.) But to just stand in a place you know in a few hours time will be so alive. And I grow jealous of that liviness sometimes.

Where have our mighty courts gone? A younger eat me? HA next you'll be telling me about the "Nice" Anarches

>>52424824

So basically a greater version of Mummy magic?
(Which is basically True-naming. Just that Arisen have no imagination/creativity and only know rote phrases.)

>>52428146
>drugged Methuselah
>nope.jpg
W-well sir... I...?

Drugs are medicine sir, this one makes you sleepy. You, uh, may be feeling a bit odd, drinking that much.

York is a city in England, much smaller.

Courts have become Sects sir, the Camarilla, Sabbat, independent clans, and two others- the Innocunu are elders seeking Golconda, and I've heard of a "True Black Hand" that supposedly lives in the Shadowlands.

And there IS the Second Anarch revolt, which is much less violent than the first, and is focused on, well sir, some are angry young vampires, but many seek the destruction or weaken of the Sects and a return to more independent domains. They aren't nice, but, well, not entirely objectable. They are being beaten on, well, every front though, by the Sabbat, Camarilla, and those damnable slug monster Kuejin.

>>52428083
Tremere was a piss poor mage in life who sought to reap the benefits of vampirism without any of its drawbacks.

He failed. He failed badly.

>>52428215
You fell for the trick of a mortal troll, my dear childe.

My last real message was this: >>52427989

>>52428228
Immortality is easier in Ascension compared to Awakening, but the drawbacks are far worse.

>Immortalize yourself and leave the earth forever, never to return. Such is the fate of ~most~ archmages.

>Dumb down your powers and convert to vampirism, furthering yourself in one of the many blood magics available.

>Become something truly horrifying and convert yourself to lichdom, whereby you will freeze your progress and forever limit your maximum potential.

There are various other methods, some of which are superior and bypass the limitations of the above. A select few archmages have actually managed to stay on earth, such as Medea and the Unnamed.

>>52427298

Seconding this because I'd like to hear as well.

>>52428215
Nothing original under the Sun, just burning flesh. This new generation is it so obessed with shiny new gem it has forgotten what made it great to begin with?

Independent domains. I see nothing wrong with that. Classic feudialism boiled down to its base parts. Also *slings a red head at his head* Put a little Fire in your belly. Golconda HA thats a youngling's game why would an elder waste his time with that? No no best to build an empire and a reasonable wealth. We're with the King's closet right? What's there modus operandi?

Shadowlands? Did the Shadow thiefs Finally feint off into the dead seas? I remember SHaky saving "Hey i'm going into the ocean, if I have not sent word back assume I have no paper or ink to write" Haha what a chuckle sport he was. Woo Tell the Lasombra is still around I love that git.

kuejin? Is that a whisky? Can you eat them?

Question: What stops a vampire from using Dominate and saying "tell me the truth about [blank]"

>>52428445
Nothing.

Except, you know, willpower, plot armor, magical protections, curses designed to kill the person he's trying to question, etc. etc. etc.

>>52428445
If you succeed you get what they believe is true, none of the details with value beyond their understanding that you could have put together yourself, and an unwarranted sense of confidence in it.

>>52427298
Makes disquiet less rough on the player. And all around makes the game more appealing

>>52423502
>>52423940
Every single thread we have this discussion and the result is always the same

File: 5eb679e9beb91bea848cb165889b0bad35a76c40bb2897c537817c6aedff2e8d.gif (719KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

719KB, 200x200px

So, I don't have a lot of experience with VTM, but a game I was in recently started imploding. It was a big, persistent world IRC game, I was playing a Malkavian. Some Brujah fuck started messing with me, so I did what I figured Malks do. I started using Obfuscate and Auspex to find the stuff important to him and burn it.

The game uses a mishmash of edition rules, Celerity still gives bonuses to Dex checks. Imagine my surprise that the ST's inform me that my 3 dots of Obfuscate do absolutely nothing to help me shadow this Brujah. Even more hilarious, it is a Dex + Stealth check, meaning that if the Brujah wanted to spy on me, he'd get massive bonuses. For me, if I fail, I'm found out, regardless of Obfuscate.

It was at this point that I asked what was the point if Brujah are better spies then Malkavians, to which I got a lot of weaseling and assurances that it wasn't true. It was about this point I decided it was time to take a break.

So, is this how it's supposed to work? Did I radically overestimate Obfuscate, or is something fucky going on?

So, how 'bout them Mastigos?

>>52412917
How do you all deal with the rather hamfisted Abrahamism (especially Christianity) in the oWoD? It conflicts with quite a lot of the other games, especially Changeling and the Eastern games (and Werewolf too, I think). Demon especially conflicted with it all.

Myself, it's hard to reconcile different game lines in oWoD. I know they weren't specifically all in the same universe, but many were treated like they were and often had cross over supplements.

Demon and its subsequent supplements really drove home the Abrahamic origins of that world and it really seemed to cancel out so much of the other lore.

It's one reason why I really love Chronicles of Darkness. There's very little known for sure and other religions aren't automatically negated by it.

>>52430207
Your ST is kind of a dick for sticking to rules as written for Celerity. It's already busted enough. Does the Brujah know you're after him or has other reasons to be paranoid?

>>52430273
most likely to have rotes stolen by ragabash werewolves and most likely to end up eviscerated by an ahroun if they try to resist

complete trash

>>52430207
No. Not at all, the Malkavians and the Nosferatu are supposed to be the seers, the spymasters, and the oracles. For fuck sake, the lore goes out of its way to point this out at every turn. Malkavians know a bunch of terrifying shit.

Nosferatu could ruin you in an instant if they're pissed off and determined enough to do so.

Like lol if the skill could be covered by someone like the Brujah which makes them totally redundant, then why would the camarilla value these individuals at all? St is a fucker absolutely. That's not how any of it works.

Idk what your guy is trying to pull, but i would tell him to get fucked.

>>52430328
Yes, but he's also an egotistical bastard who thinks he's invincible.

I was just kinda surprised. When I first rolled into Malkavian, I was a little unhappy about not having a direct combat skill, but I was assured that Obfuscate was the good shit. They explained to me how powerful the information game was and my character had a bit of swagger from the idea that, with his high mental stats, high auspex and high obfuscate, he could find out everything about anyone with a little time and effort and destroy them, even if he had no chance against him in a straight up fight.

Then, the first time I try to do it, Obfuscate has zero direct effect on my rate of success or failure. All it does is let me ambush him if I succeed (suicidal, he's one of the best fighters in town) or escape if I lose, but he would still know it was me following me, so irrelevent.

So, it was just an unmodified Dex + Stealth for me as an obfuscate user, but a Celerity user would get his bonus dice from dex, making them a far better spy then me, a Malkavian. I pointed out something was very wrong with that and was brushed off.

>>52430419
I can see Brujah making surprisingly good Solid Snake sneaking types, but they shouldn't be anywhere near the level of 'not there but there' that the Nossies and Malkavians are at, no.

One thing I really liked in VtR 2e was how so many disciplines 'just work', particularly the sorts that are completely core to a disciplines thematics. If you want to disappear from sight with Obfuscate, you do. If you want to scare someone with Nightmare, you do. If you want to make everyone pay attention to you with Presence, they do, and if you want to make someone do something (a short, clear, something) with Dominate, you do.

Obfuscate having a chance to just fail is dumb.

>>52430462
This was a long term shadowing check, made once a week, contested by the Brujah in question. Their justification for their ruling was that because Obfuscate is only 'on' for a range of about 25 yard or so for me (wits + stealth x 5 yards) and because things like stepping on trash, puddles, following through doors, etc, that all Obfuscate 2 let me do was either Ambush him if I succeeded or may help me escape if I fail, but regardless, he would still know I'm following him if I lost the contested roll.

It would have no direct impact on my success and failure rate. When I pointed out the massive game balance shifting effect this ruling would have, because Celerity very much would have a direct effect on rate of success and would make Toreador and Brujah both substantially better at shadowing people then Malks and Nos, I was ignored. I also pointed out that if Obfuscate does nothing to protect you, then that means you have to succeed multiple times to get all the intel you would need. Fail once, and you were boned making this type of spying extremely risky for relatively little reward. I was brushed off again.

>>52430207
There's no passive bonus at all for having the dots, but you absolutely should be able to duck into cover to activate it and then walk about four feet behind him. He doesn't get an opportunity to notice you without a comparable supernatural seeing power and you don't bump into him or knock something over.

>>52430555
I can kind of get the logic behind this, but how on earth would the Brujah specifically know that it was a vampire following him, and more specifically, you? He should be suspicious, at best, that "something is weird", and maybe be more on guard, but not go from 0 to "SOMEONE'S FOLLOWING ME WITH VAMPIRE POWERS".

Sounds like a lopsided ruling.

>>52430207
This post is a misrepresentation of what occurred.

The rolls didn't occur in an active scene, and were used an as an abstraction of what was happening with the rolls representing that an effort was being made to remain unseen. Dodging puddles and maintaining the distance needed for Obfuscate to be active. Not to mention the action act of following the other character.

>>52431221
Okay but here's the thing
There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the book about a distance for Obfuscate to be active.
If they can see you(or hear you, or otherwise sense you), they can be affected by it. It doesn't matter if you step in a puddle, Obfuscate tells them to ignore you, unless you actually legitimately draw attention to yourself(which doesn't include stepping in a puddle, but rather something like yelling HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT ME).

Assuming you're the ST, you're either blatantly trying to screw a player over, or you're an idiot.

>>52423601
If you are talking about the Ravnos Anti, the fucking vampire didn't get killed by fucking condensed sunlight.

>The Vampire awoke.
>Some 4gen Ravnos came to fight him.
>The Technocracy decided to intervene using focused light satellites
>The fucking Ravnos Anti CLOUDED THE SKY and made the entire zone go dark.

All of this happened when it was fucking daylight, and vampires are way weaker during daylight, because torpor wants to make you sleep costantly.

>>52430677
>Sounds like a lopsided ruling.
Because it is.
GMs in general have considerable issues with players being stealthy.

>>52431767
You are getting that wrong, anon.
The Bodhisattva that came to fight him created the storm to darken the sky, the storm was blown away by the spirit nuke, THEN the Technocracy used the space lasers on him, and yes, that did kill him.
To wit, however, this also was after 3 days of constant battle, so lets not sit here and say the Technocracy had it easy.

>>52431720
Except you're objectively wrong. V20 page 184. The distance for Obfuscate is equal to 5 yards/meters per dot in Wits + Stealth

>>52431720
Typically vampires
using Obfuscate must be within a short range of
their witnesses (approximately five yards or meters per
dot of Wits + Stealth) for their power to be effective.

No roll is necessary to use this power unless
the character speaks, attacks, or otherwise draws attention
to himself. The Storyteller should call for a Wits +
Stealth roll under any circumstances that might cause
the character to reveal himself. The difficulty of the
roll depends on the situation; stepping on a squeaky
floorboard might be a 5, while walking through a pool
of water may require a 9

>>52431812
>>52431866
This would be settled neatly if either powers added to dice, or did not add to dice, uniformly.
The celerity thing screws the player by dint of not choosing the "correct" clan, and shit like that is why Masquerade is a shit game that people shovel down their throats and claim it's good like 3.PF D&D.

>>52431987
It's a storytelling system. Onyx Path and WW have always been shit with mechanics. It's not even vague here though.

Sounds to me like someone is mad his build is shit. Did you build for sneaking? or are you just assuming that you could because of reasons?

>>52432030
>It's a storytelling system
No, anon, that is a CWoD problem, especially with Masquerade, where clan choice literally defines if you are useful or not, and someone else can be objectively better than you.

>>52432122
No fucking duh someone can be better at you with controlling people if they have Dominate and Presence. Like...how is this a problem?

>>52432122
>>52432165
Are you pissed because irl someone rolled up Kenyan and get to be a better runner than you no matter how much you train?

>>52432165
>>52432181
>people defending CWoD mechanics
Poor kids, what's wrong, am I interrupting your "narrative" by telling you your game sucks at being a game?

>>52431798
So you are still confirming that it "just" needed:
>3 4th Gen Vampires,
>Magical Neutron Bombs
>Specially made Sunlight Focusing Satellites
>3 days of battle
>Two additional days before the Technocracy did something about it

Extra considerations:
>The Technocracy is the most powerful magical faction on Earth without even having to fear Paradox, so this means it was the best they could do to face a world treat.
>Methusa Vampires are enough to stop this stupid weapons specially made to kill vampires from space.

Yeah, the fuck with the ruleZ, I want to be cooler and better and fuck my sheet, I should be that. If I say that IRL can I be richer and handsomer because I am white middle class?

>>52432210
I'm sorry your autism can't handle that the ST gets more control over the way the game is run than you do.

File: Samedi.jpg (23KB, 500x433px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 500x433px

I couldn't find it in the mega, and I know it's not strictly WoD but could someone point me in the direction of where to get a more recent copy of Scion?

>>52432226
>ST
Oh, I'm sorry, you meant the rulebook, you mean?

>>52432219
I have no stakes in this but there were also werewolfs and other shapeshifters there I think

>>52432219
You forgot about the, iirc, 12 werewolf packs, including THE alpha pack and hengyokai that were there.
They didn't do much, tho, except die.

>>52432122
If you play to be a fucking powergamer thinking about which disciplines are better than others when it's something completely based on the situation. Even fucking Animalism can be more useful than Presence and Dominate if you are throw into a cage full of lions.

VtM/oWoD isn't a fucking power fantasy, is about telling a story about characters, not to build a powerful character to kill powerful enemies.

>>52432219
It was so insignificant that an archscientist didn't need to step in.

>>52432402
Here there is the "insignificant" meme again

The Technocracy exist to get rid of the supernatural, to create a static reality by dominating humanity belief. A Prehistorical vampire wrecking havoc around all of India and killing tons of people, emanating psychic waves all around the physical realm and the Umbra that make people mad isn't enough to get the Technocracy act? The Literal defender of static reality? What a silly excuse.

You do neglect to tell us your stats or what happened in the scene that a Brujah picked up your obfuscated malk. Or is this just a butt hurt hypothetical looking for validation

>>52432613
The dice pool was 3 and the Brujah never picked up on them.

File: 3.5e.gif (144KB, 126x126px) Image search: [Google]

144KB, 126x126px

I've been away from the system for a while, but are there any splats for Mage 2e? Have they done anything with the Sixth Watchtower yet?

>>52432820
>>52432820

>>52430207
The only ways to find a vampire in Obfuscate are these:
1) You breaking the discipline on purpose, by popping out of it or just drawing attention to you.
2) Touching something, like a door, that would break the Discipline.
3) A Vampire using Auspex 2 while having more dots in it than you have in Obfuscate.

You cannot find out a Malk/Nosfe using Obfuscate by using a normal perception test. Not even at level 1.

Some other things to remember about it:
1) If you break Obfuscate and then you want to re enter it, if somebody is looking at you before you use the discipline it will still being looking at you, except for higher levels of Obfuscate.
2) Cams and Photos can detect you and imprint your image.

>>52432830
This thread hasn't even reached bump limit you tool

>>52432831
However you still can be hit even when not visible. Either by area attacks or by getting into confined space with somebody else where it's physically impossible not to touch each other.

>>52432831
A few ways this doesn't relate to the topic at hand:

1) Yes
2) No, you get a Wits + Stealth roll.
3) You mean Auspex 1 to heighten their senses.

Also, the scene wasn't an active scene but an abstraction (I disagree it shouldn't have been done the way it was but can't be helped after the fact).

>>52432831
>The only ways to find a vampire in Obfuscate are these:

Actually, you can find a vampire using the first dot of Obfuscate if you're actually *trying* to carefully observe the spot the vampire is in.

So, if Vamp A sits down in a darkened alley, and someone told Person B "Hey, there's totally a vampire in that darkened alley, just go look really closely!", then Person B could still be able to find the vampire, even if the discipline wasn't broken, even if the vampire wasn't bumped into, and even if Person B lacked Auspex.

But as long as people have no idea they're being followed, or have no idea where the vampire might actually be, etc... then you're all good.

>>52423601
>this meme for the billionth time

I swear I'm going to start putting this in the OP.

Killing Ravnos caused the avatar storm

>>52433020
No. Auspex 1 isn't enough.

If somebody uses Obfuscate 2 with 4 dots in it you need at least to use Auspex 2 with 4 dots in it to detect its aura.

No way a ghoul with Auspex 1 can be able to detect a vampire with Obfuscate 2 or more.

>>52433084
This is a limit case scenario that's barely legit.

>>52433252
What I'm saying is you need to have Heightened Senses active to search for someone hiding using Obfuscate.

Obfuscate: When a vampire tries to use her
heightened perceptions to notice a Kindred
hidden with Obfuscate, she detects the subject’s
presence if her Auspex rating is higher
than his Obfuscate, and she succeeds at a
Perception + Awareness roll (difficulty equals
7 minus the number of dots by which her
Auspex exceeds his Obfuscate).

Keywords being Heightened Perceptions.

File: tripwires7.jpg (492KB, 3000x2096px) Image search: [Google]

492KB, 3000x2096px

>>52432831
trip wires work just fine Anon

>>52423372
>>52425189
>The whole 6+ spheres concept comes from a TYPO in a manual that magefags consider to be canon.
>The Last edition of mage doesn't even include them because they are considered not canon by the original staff and actual editor of 20th mage, making them worse than fanction.
>Even if they were a thing they are draw so much UNCOUNTERABLE paradox that is basically suicide using them in any useful circumstance.
>That means that Archspheres are only useful as sand in a sandbox for children to make shapes and castles, but if the sand is ever going to leave the sandbox everything is going to crumble or to end up inside your pants.

This is hilarious.

>>52432254
There is no recent copy of Scion, it hasn't been released.

>>52426843
That seems large at first but once I read Mexico City by night I realized it wouldn't be that big of a problem.

>MC has a population of 20 million people
>there are 500 vampires in MC
>even accounting for the fact that they're Sabbat and therefore crazy motherfuckers, it's not that big of a number, especially since oWoD is darker than our world

>>52433533
Wait so the '07 copy i found is what they're still selling? It's 10 years old!

>>52433691
Yeah, the kickstartered book for 2nd edition is still being worked on

Are dhampir damned like vampires are? They're just born with it, no fault of their own.

>>52433837
If you're implying it's a mortal's "fault" for being embraced you need a good slapping motherfucker

File: 1489267046937.jpg (65KB, 600x578px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 600x578px

>>52432656
Can someone answer please?

>>52433526
>The Last edition of mage doesn't even include them because they are considered not canon by the original staff and actual editor of 20th mage, making them worse than fanction.
Wrong. M20 goes out of its way to even mention Masters of the Art.

>Even if they were a thing they are draw so much UNCOUNTERABLE paradox that is basically suicide using them in any useful circumstance.
Not exactly, no. Not even close actually.

File: 1490725364228.jpg (94KB, 519x533px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 519x533px

>>52423940
Old vamps are the easiest splat to kill and so are the hot topic fat goths that disagree.

>>52434050
No, and no.
According to DaveB, there'll be Signs of Sorcery, the Orders book, and another unannounced one, at the very least.

But Signs of Sorcery is languishing in development hell, and has been for quite a while now.

To the dude(s) who were doing the elder thing, I love you. I haven't laughed so hard in ages.