/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>52398645
My Brujah in my last game got a really weak blood bond to one of the Caitiffs in the group, because I got shot in the head(for the third time) and didn't have enough blood left to heal myself out of incap without him giving me a few points.

Rank the Masquerade clans from edgiest to least edgy

So, is the DE Companion as shitty as we expected?

>>52398858
I've been enjoying it, but I don't know if my taste is the same as yours.

>>52398756
Grabs popcorn.

>>52398858
It's got a lot of interesting stuff in it, a lot of minor splats we probably never would have seen in CofD otherwise, but the layout and some of the mechanics are...eh. Also, it suffers from an acute case of 'what edition am I supposed to run this in?' especially all the Mummy sections.

>>52398988
Not the OP but it looks like it's worth taking a look at judging from what you say. Is there anything for Vampire or Demon in that book?

>>52399043
I think Demon get the Soviet Union chapter? I'm not that far yet. I remember seeing one of the chapters in the index marked with a vampire skull but can't remember which.

>>52398756

Tzimisce
Lasombra
Assamite
Gangrel
Followers of Set
Giovanni
Tremere
Brujah
Toreador
Ravnos
Malkavians
Nosferatu
Ventrue

>>52399043
Vampire has rules for the Morbus Bloodline, though they didn't do anything new with it, just reskinned the rules for 2E. Nothing mechanics wise for Demon, but they do get the Russian Revolution setting.

>>52399192
Thanks mate. Demon part sounds interesting

>>52398756
Tzimisce
Lasombra
Assamites
Most Sabbat Antitribus
Gangrel
Followers of Set
Giovanni
Brujah
Tremere
Toreador
Ravnos
Malkavian
Nosferatu
Ventrue
Salubri

Those who read the dark ages companion how good/bad are the sorcerers rules?

Can i ditch proximi and use sorcerer for mage?

>>52399251
>Salubri
Thankfully, they are not a clan.

>>52399301
https://anonfile.com/o688y6b9b6/CofD_Dark_Eras_Companion.pdf


See for yourself. I didn´t like them, sempai.

>>52399301
>Can i ditch proximi and use sorcerer for mage

Not really. The sorcerer rules are acceptable, but expressly designed for primarily normal humans (i.e., not even lesser templates).

A proximus could better spend his dots on supernal abilities and other supernatural merits.

>>52399301
You can in theory be a Mage and a sorcerer since the only ones who can't be are undead or those who aren't really alive (Sin-Eaters, Prometheans and Demons I think are covered by that?).

>>52399301
Why not both? Why not a Proximus who IS a Sorcerer?

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>When looked at with mage sight Anpu registers as an Underworld entity, a Lower Depths entity, and a Supernal entity all at once
>All of these still feel wrong to mages

What the fuck kind of deities did the Shan'iatu worship? I enjoy this mystery here honestly, it is nice to have something big that defies explicit categorization, but the more we learn about the magic of Irem from the mage point of view to couch it in more familiar setting terms than the religious world view of Mummy the more insane it gets.

That being said studying the Arisen is probably a mystery that will keep on giving till you are just flush with Arcane exp

>>52399374

Because i like the flavor of sorcerers that they learned their magic through exploiting magical laws. And i dislike the whole family curse of the proximi

>>52399476
Fair enough.

I could also recommend hijacking the Witch rules from Witch Finders.

>>52399506

Are they 2nd ed compatible?

>>52399476

So why don't you just drop the curse, and keep Proximi similar to the presentation in 1e - supernal spells as merit dot powers (with or without paradox) and access to supernatural merits.

The sorcerer merits really aren't that great, and are certainly not open-ended like Awakened magic or even Requiem's blood magic.

>Hunter: Tooth and Nail
>"Also, we tend to take more nuanced approaches to many monsters. But Beasts feed on terror. Very few of them are worth saving. Vampires can feed from a pig farm if they want to avoid hurting people. Beasts cause trauma. They cause irreparable harm to the fabric of society, and damnation follows in their wake."

>"And the worst part? I've heard they think they're doing us a favor, teaching us. You know who else thought he was doing us and teaching us through abuse? That son of bitch who abused us. He wasn't right, and neither are they. We'll put them down, just as quick as we put him down."

And once again, Lucifuge and the Union are right.

>>52399517
Not explicitly, but hackable.
To be honest, Demon Embeds and Exploits aren't 2e either.

>>52399536
>So why don't you just drop the curse,
Dude, that was a big part in 1e as well. Or do you forget the prophets who literally can't tell people about their visions?

>>52399308

Onyx Path, why are you such a huge faggot?

>>52399551
What? They have no Antediluvian, the Tremere stole it.
By definition they are not a Clan.

>>52399551
What are you talking about? Do you really want three-eyed, soul-sucking monsters around?

>>52399536
>The sorcerer merits really aren't that great, and are certainly not open-ended like Awakened magic or even Requiem's blood magic.

Personally i just want humans who through study and practicing rituals can do a few spells like fireballs or see how someone died.

Biokinesis is way too weak. And blood sorcery from blasphemies lack the cost for theban spells saying it requires "some sacrifice"

>>52399715
Well one explicit effect in the Alexandrian period is an earthquake caused by sorcerers fucking around so I imagine even if there's no explicit rituals for fireballs you can make one and point out that is much lower scale than a canon result of this magic.

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You think anyone on /mu/ might know where to find this?

>>52399541
>Best groups confirmed.

>>52399830
All the music can be found as MP3 files somewhere in the data set of Bloodlines

>>52399855

Anon, that has nothing to do with the video game.

That's something completely separate.

And it's made by Bart Dijkman, not Rik Schaffer.

Are Sin-Eaters comparable to Mages in terms of overall power?

>>52399938
Nothing besides just mummies and demons really are close, but much like mage prep time and what specific arcana builds let you do it is all kind of conditional.

>>52399938
Sin-Eaters are deceptively powerful, and at lower levels they might be roughly comparable to some weak, undeveloped Mages.

However overall?
Mages still hold all the cards.

>>52399938
As >>52399976 mentioned only Demon and Mummy can compare to Mage as a game-line.

Then you got Imperial Mysteires, wherein the Archmasters have no playable equal. They just win at what they do, and what they do Is worldly.

>>52400010
>what they do Is worldly
Arguably what they do is unworldly.
If they get worldly, they break Pax Arcanum.
And every other Archmaster dogpiles their delicate ass.

>>52400010
>Archmasters have no playable equal

Is there really no other splat a person can be to challenge them? What about really old vampires?

>>52400047
>What about really old vampires?
Not a chance.
None of the examples we've seen this far are even close to rivals for top end Mages, let alone Archmages.

>>52400047
Nothing else compares.
You are literally a demigod seeking Ascension.

The weakest of their number cannot fail Clash of Wills, the strongest of their number could break Luna and turn her into their slave.

>>52400069
>>52400079
>answers

Well, I'm glad I asked. Relatively ignorant about all of this. Thanks for the replies. Is there a set date for when Geist 2e is coming out?

>>52399715
>i just want humans who through study and practicing rituals can do a few spells like fireballs

Sorcery will not provide quick, battle-type spells.

It's mostly rules for long rituals that provide bonuses to attributes or skills or generally have minor, albeit supernatural, effects, often for terrible cost.

The rules are only a few pages long. Download the book and read them at your leisure.

https://anonfile.com/o688y6b9b6/CofD_Dark_Eras_Companion.pdf

>>52399448

Any movie with Brendan Frasier serves the Lie.

>>52400129
>Is there a set date for when Geist 2e is coming out?
No, and since they have to release Changeling 2e, Hunter 2e, and probably Deviant first you shouldn't hold your breath.

>>52400153
>Implying his isn't a supernal truth

Plus come on, The Mummy was clearly made in universe by a mummy cultist somewhere in the studio who was desperate to flow money into the branch of the studio which represented the corporate cult of his master.

He just couldn't have imagined how much Atwan-Menefus hated the real Imhotep's turning Kemet towards the worship of sky-gods and away from the Judges of Death and Azar, right up to his final moment when he snapped his neck. No free publicity for heretics, Mr. Feinstein!

>>52398756
Most edgy:

All of the ones /wodg/ seems to like best.

>>52399576
Well, since Tremere's possessed by Saulot, they still have an Antideluvian of sorts.
A manipulative bastard that's as self-centered as every elder, and who may have had noble goals and quite evil means, but he's still around and rumors are he's controlling his Antitribu so he has more agents in the Sabbat and can calm them on their Tremere purges.

>There’s no system for creating relics, and for a simple reason: If there was, it could be harnessed to find and produce them predictably. Arisen exist across such a vast timescale that even a method that produced just one relic in a generation could be optimized into an industry. There was a way to do it once, but it was lost with the Shan’iatu. Arisen have explored every possible alternative and failed. The best they can do is encourage talented artists, occultists, and craftspeople in the hope that inspiration strikes. The Storyteller decides if it does. That’s the rule. Arisen can create relics by attaining Apotheosis and thus the power to make them themselves, using the old Iremite methods, but of course this is Arisen blasphemy.

>If you’re running Mummy you can devise an event that allows mummies to acquire new relics to order, but this would most likely trigger an apocalyptic endgame. Flush with terrestrial Sekhem, the Judges could do any number of unpleasant things. You’re free to run a world full of howling demons and necromancer kings who scowl over the ruins of cities, or an all-Duat game where the Arisen have been brought “home,” mission accomplished. Let your imagination fill in the details. Point is, outside of Apotheosis only motivated sorcerers (and the occasionally freak occurrence) can create relics.

I'm not sure I agree with this but I honestly kind of want to see these apocalyptic endgames as setting writeups in mummy 2e like how most games have a few example cities. I mean what the fuck would mummies even do if they finally finished the job? Just hang around in Duat serving the half-dead Shan'iatu who trapped themselves there like idiots with the Rite?

>>52400487
>apocalyptic endgame

While mummies aren't a tier 4 supernatural, I don't think the various gods and archmages of the Pax would allow the world to sink into ruin.

>>52398756
Tzimisce
Giovanni
Lasombra
Antitribus
Followers of Set
Cappadocian
Assamite
Tremere
Brujah
Ravnos
Toreador
Gangrel
Malkavian
Nosferatu
Venture
Salubri

>>52400581
>no imagination
stop sucking mage dick already

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>>52400656

>>52400581
Judges don't give a shit, and sekhem and mana have a weird relationship now. They might honestly be sekhem archmage equivalents and a giant pool of it lets them wave their magic dicks around like an archmage with quintessence. There's no rules on them and apparently Anpu is pretty much unclassifiable to Awakened sensibilities and I don't think he and the Judges are that different as entities.

That being said, archmages also might just fuck off to a reality where the Arisen never get a relic industry going. Same result, less effort for them! The God-Machine won't be happy though, since I don't think it can bail like that.

>>52400656

The Pax binds and influences more than just archmages.

>>52400732
Archmages literally have the capability of erasing the Judges en masse. If the Judges do something, the Seekers are going to finish it. Knowing mages in general, they will always have the last say in matters like these.

>The Taurans are known for violent sexual rites, performed to drive both aggressor and victim into a state of terrorized euphoria. Performed in dark caverns, and observed by members of the cult who chant to Ta-Retinhu or Geb, the participants are said to be attuned to the movements of the earth. Possessing a matriarchal structure, the eldest female Taurans make all decisions of importance for their fellows. Young sorcerers— both male and female— are treated as chattel by older cultists until they visit aggression on sorcerers even younger than they. This cycle of abuse has led to the cult being appraised as sadistic by moral Arisen, who attempt to instill a sense of virtue among the sorcerers. During a mummy’s brief time awake, such lessons are difficult to ingrain in an already longstanding culture.

Dark.

>>52400732
The 42 Judges of Duat against the "no more than a hundred" Archmasters, and the infinite amount of Ascended beings and their infinite amount of Ochemata? These beings define reality for everyone minus a select few things.

Yeah, they better give a flying shit. The Supernal is endless. Not to mention the gods of the other lines, Such as the God-Machine who actively prevents the apocalypse, and Gaia who is the actual planet.

>>52400781
What even are the Judges? I figure that the Death arcanum at a high enough level would let someone affect them but they're not really spirits or ghosts or anything in a traditional sense.

>>52400869
>The Supernal is endless.
Or is there even a Supernal? I bet this is Greek propaganda

But yes lots of other shit out there plus cheating archmage powers.

>>52400781
Prove it.

We have no *rules* for the judges; as written, they do what the ST wants them to - unlike Archmasters who very much have their own rules.

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>>52400918

>>52400918
That's the same argument Masquerade fags use when discussing their beloved Antediluvians. It just isn't good substance for an argument.

Archmastery is explicitly capable of doing anything, with Transfiguration 9 granting limited Omnipotence in its respective Arcanum for a time.

Adding to this, the Judges wouldn't even be rank 8/9 entities, such as Luna, Sol and Gaia.

>>52400995
>Adding to this, the Judges wouldn't even be rank 8/9 entities, such as Luna, Sol and Gaia.

Are we sure about that actually? In Dreams of Avarice we get probably as close to the real origin of the gods of Irem as there is (and maybe a possible genesis for the world?) and they're honestly more of a deal than I even thought after reading Mummy which basically is the Judges of Duat's Wild Ride.

They're above even actual gods, which are 'who the fuck knows' entities given how Anpu reads as Supernal, Underworld, and Lower Depth at once.

But like most things, archmastery 9 will win once you figure out the right arcanum. And Death probably works on all of the Judges of Death.

>>52400995
And pray tell, why would they not be that oh anon-kun of wisdom?

>>52401105
>They're above even actual gods

You are legit retarded for typing that.

>>52401105
I guess every Supernal Being Is above every god above every god then? Because those living symbols technically define everything in Mummy?

>>52401134
Anpu is Anubis, the Egyptian god of the dead and psychopomp of the souls. He is an actual god, who exists in the CofD and anyone who gets stuck in Neter-Khertet can meet him. Azar is actually there in Duat on his throne.

The Judges are older gods still. Or whatever the fuck they count as. Are you arguing the definition of god in this case?

>>52401162
No, they define everything in Mage; crossover is not explicit and entirely up to the ST; it is a typic tendency of Mages to assume that everything works as they assume it do, which is of course, the game working as intended.

But like it or not, crossover is grey territory which we know exceedingly little about; now if only there was some sort of book coming out on this subject - some kind of... crossover chronicle...

>>52401105
>Are we sure about that actually?

Yes. Yes we are sure about that. No one has ever met a rank 9 entity, and if she exists, Gaia would be one. This is legit lore you are disregarding.

>>52401162
Well by the Diamond cosmology they define everything in every game.

>>52401194
That's not how it works. Just look at the God-Machine. The symbols of the Supernal define everything he does, and he is far more of a god than the Judges.

>>52401196
I didn't actually know that, I thought Luna was a rank 9 one from the context of your comment. Is this coming from Werewolf or Mage? I'm not disputing but legit don't know what book the ultra high ranking spirit shit comes out of.

>>52401184
There's more than one god of the dead in the Chonicles of Fagness, faggot.

>>52401228
For fuck sakes, read Imperial Mysteries. You're discussing the definitions of divinity with present magefags. You're going to get steamrolled with citations if you don't shut the fuck up.

>>52401212
I'm seeing a distinct lack of proof, anon-kun.

>>52401228
Imperial Mysteries.
Countries and so forth are Rank 6
Oceans are Rank 7
Luna, Heliod and any of their Kin are Rank 8
Gaia, if she exists would be Rank 9
The Universe itself would be Rank 10

>>52401229
Yes, I just named two of them. Plus whatever is in Geist, I assume there's a few there.

Dark Mother get out

>>52401258
Uh oh. You shouldn't have typed that. Magefags specialize in proof.

>>52401259
It seems weird to jump from the spirit of a planet to the spirit of a universe. Like a huge quadratic jump that doesn't seem borne out in the scale before that

>>52401281
The spirit hierarchy is more based on meaning than size or weight. If that were the case, Sol should be stronger than Gaia, and Luna should be so much weaker than she actually is.

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>>52401258

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Gandalf called He says you guys need to stop sucking his dick, and rimming his asshole in public. it's getting weird

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>>52401258
>>52401327

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>>52401258
>>52401327
>>52401352

>>52401352
What the fuck does this even mean? The God-Machine is the inevitable result of the Exarchs existing at all?

>>52401385

As Above, So Below

A cosmic oppression must also have a physical form.

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Magefags educating the unenlightened like usual.

>>52401372
Oh, okay, the signal analogy makes it make sense to me. Which it should have anyway given how 2e clearly calls out the supernal realms as not places but signals of a sort.

Dave has had to explain the idea of supernal symbols as not being literal realms in space one too many times hasn't he?

>>52401385
It's pretty simple.
God-Machine creates output by moving building blocks into positions, relying the special hidden meaning of things.

Exarchs, being the rulers/part of the background-tapestry of the universe, are what define the special hidden meaning of those things.

>>52401411
>hurdur

Is Hunter popular at all? I really want to run a game, but fuck if I know if I can find non-autistic players.

>>52401422
It's more annoying when idiots question the cosmology of Awakening. This is one of the focal points for magefaggotry.

>>52401407
The Free Council might argue that flows backwards, but what do they know? They don't even believe in Atlantis.

>>52401449
It is reasonably so but good luck on getting a bunch of people without a few autists.

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>>52400069
>>52400079
You lying asshole. Archmasters can't do shit against Caine less they feel the wrath of the seven fold curse

>>52401543
Not this again.

We've already been through this.

>>52401543
Caine is an oWoD character, we're discussing CofD, you bloody retard. Or are you just a shitter? In which case, edit Caine into a frog.

>>52401571
That you are wrong?
>>52401590
Archmasters are oWoD and Arch mage are nWoD. Guess what dumbass Arch mage are way weaker than Archmasters. Caine would absolutely shit on an arch mage

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Dumbledore wants to know why you all are knee deep in wizard wands and didn't invite him. He Loves being penetrated by young boys

>>52401543
I don't think Caine is going to defend against wizards capable of juggling galaxies and vomiting up big bangs.

>>52401642
You're trying too hard there, buddy.

The Legio are the saddest supernatural enemy Arisen run into. Mummy is basically 'kick everyone when they're on the ground, forever: the game'. Why can't they get something nice for once, like werewolves getting gay sex or vampires having swag parties?

>>52401651
Archmasters can't do that

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>>52401651
>juggling galaxies
More like universes.

>Prime 9 supremacy

Hunter game idea: Kent Maryland is a quiet little town in quiet little Kent Maryland. Nothing happens. No one ever really moves to the county. Almost no one ever moves away. And when cows start showing up mutilated on the beach of the Kent lake, things start getting weird.

Y/N?

>>52401721
The Archmasters of nWoD were specifically toned down compared to the Archmages of oWoD.

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Honestly Harry is a little freaked out by old man wank, but he went to fang gory and liked it. so he's down to clown

>>52401812
Is this some kind of incantation in the High Speech? I can't make heads or tales of it. Are you trying to curse this thread? Can't you see we suffer enough by our own depredations as it is?!

>>52401726
They can really do all of that? I'm not sure this is what you would call good game design.

>>52401733
That's extremely vague my dude, you're going to have to give us more if you want a fair opinion.

>>52401884
Most games never reach that point, I think that things of that scale tend to get used specifically for games about being space gods trying to start a new universe or doing space god intrigue.

>>52401884
Even getting to one of those would be a feat beyond all but the most long-running games.

Or a game which starts at roughly that level, and thus has the intention of achiving such feats.

Really, issues of Mastery and the greater Spheres in either Ascension or Awakening are non-problems, given how hard it is for most PCs to reach that level of proficiency.

>>52401733
>>52401896
Small town Hunter game in rural maryland where the players are locals or the rare visitor who get involved with strange wildlife mutilations and gradually worse.

Honestly, one of the hardest parts for Hunter to me is figuring out if the players should start already on the Vigil or with it as a group cold start with them gradually uncovering the world of darkness.

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Two sweaty grampas going at each other with their Massive pieces of wood. They call him Saruman the White cause he loves the taking it from all sides. Hey else do you think they go from grey cloaks to white.

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>Very few Visitors exist on Earth, yet for some reason, they choose this era to dispatch a reconnaissance mission. These parasites latch on to their hosts’ brainstems and manipulate victims as expert puppeteers. It seems they possess great interest in the Isireion Prophecies’ workings, the fate of Arisen conflict in Egypt for some reason important to these aliens. The handful of Visitors engaged apparently understand all about the Judges and Rite of Return, and find the entire thing hilarious.

There's canon CofD ayyy lmao now? And apparently they just fucking hate Arisen I guess.

>>52402047
Allegedly the leaders of Cheiron are ayyy lmaos.

>>52402047

I believe they're part of the 1e Immortals crew, so they've been around for a while.

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Radagast is all about the animal husbandtry. His shrooms are the party favors. He shoves it in SO good they don't call him The Brown for nothing. got to scatcactscat the night away

>>52401726
>Forces 9 / Prime 9

So could I turn the WoD into an anime version of itself and call everyone my waifu?

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On the topic of Arch-mages. Someone posted this a while back.

>>52401986
It sounds like an adequate but unspectacular setting. That's fine, though, I'd rather have a great game in an ok setting than an ok game in a great setting.

>Honestly, one of the hardest parts for Hunter to me is figuring out if the players should start already on the Vigil or with it as a group cold start with them gradually uncovering the world of darkness.
The patrician option is to have them start on the Vigil and partway through the campaign do a flashback session to their first encounter with the supernatural but either of those is fine desu.

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>every magefag ever

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are there any good books/short stories/movies and tv for wraith the oblivion inspiration?

i want some thing to read but any other suggestions are welcome

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>>52402827
>are there any good books/short stories/movies and tv for wraith the oblivion inspiration?

Beetlejuice

>>52403089
good one any books or short stories?

>>52403150
None that I can think of, sorry.

>>52403229
damn any one else got any thing?

>>52403264
The book probably has some influenced in it which you should check out.

>>52403340
you mean the rule book? i checked that i was surprised to find there wasn't a list of suggested media :(

>>52403381
Really? That's weird to me, but I don't own that book specifically. Sorry yo

>>52403407
ikr i might check the other supplements if they have any suggestions

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Does this mean that a Demon can apply this to a human being to throw him 30+ yards away? If not how much weight this power supports? WW may be more accurate in its descriptions.

>>52403567
ALso, does this apply to thrown punches as well? Can I use this to nullify the force of punches? The next level speaks about increased speed and punch damage, but not about nullifying the speed.

>>52403567
Yes, but only if you're strong enough to be able to actually pick the person up in the first place.

So for example, a Strength 2 Demon can't use that on a 200kg+ person, as they have no capacity to throw them in the first place.

However even if you can only pick them up and half throw-drop them a few cm, you can use the power.

>>52401543
I looked at your post

Then I looked at >>52401726 and >>52402219

Why are Masquerade players so unashamedly biased? This is an honest-to-god question. I'm reminded of the 'Goku vs Superman' debates over at ComicVine, in which the fans of the former adamantly refuse to believe and concede that their beloved Japanese hero could possibly be bested by an American hero based on sound and pronounced material.

Nerds are at times heavily reminiscent of the religious.

>Caesar was backed by Pure in the conflict with Pompey
Whoops!

>>52403708
Because the games weren't meant to have the same cosmology layered on top of each other in anything but the broadest strokes. And people are sick of magefag wankery.

>>52402827
>books
All Hallow's Eve by Charles Williams
Necroscope by Brian Lumley
Summer of Night by Dan Simmons

>short stories
Lost Hearts by M.R. James
On The Downhill Side by Harlan Ellison

>movies
The Frighteners, 1996
The Wraith, 1986

>>52404381
thanks dude

>>52404220
That's not even remotely close to what I was getting at.

>>52404220
If you are talking about oWoD I noticed it to be just a false knowledge spread along this general, by reading specific core manuals you can see that everything is linked together.

I wanted to make a post about it for days, but being a long post it requires a lot of time to be written and safly I didn't have it lately, but I will write it eventually.

>>52401969
>Really, issues of Mastery and the greater Spheres in either Ascension or Awakening are non-problems, given how hard it is for most PCs to reach that level of proficiency.

This begs the question, why even have that level of mastery at all then? Doesn't that just make it gay power wank fantasy? Assuming people do play with stats like that, how is the game even fun when you're a Mind 9 Fagathrustra archmage "existing as everyone"?

>>52404553
Because if you'd reference the rest of my post, you'd see I mentioned that those powers are there either for plot points, or for those people who want to start at the much higher level, and not have to worry about the same kinds of problems and plots as less proficient characters.

>>52404544
Everything that is linked in oWoD is considered semi-Canon. This has been known since the 90s, anon.

It doesn't make the setting coherent. It's a mess and some of us prefer it that way. Leave it to fan interpretation to fill in the gaps.

>>52404553
These powers are obviously made as to be used by NPCs in really specific situations, probably in the end of a Chronicle.

>>52404602
Then leave me the right to make the post in these days as "fan theory" and judge yourself, maybe someone would use that material as source for certain campains.

>>52404646
Just know that you're going to be among the many who have already posted such things.

>>52398756
All clans are edgy. The only ones with nonedgy potential is like, Brujah or Toreador, and fuck both of them. NO ONE likes those boring losers.

>>52404553
Because it is good to know what is going on in the background. Also it shuts dumbfucks up who after getting their dicks verbally smacked into the dirt, decide to attack the demigod. When a ST can literally point at rules and say, "See that? That is what he fucking does to you. Make a new character. Hopefully one that doesn't have his gastank filled will Stupid Octane."

Also, like games playing as Vampire Elders, sometimes it's interesting to explore the dehumanizing effects of ultimate power in a roleplaying form. Especially when you have others to pit them against.

>>52404578
>>52404604
But is it really fun when the BBEG with Forces 9 turns everyone's crotch into a Porsche bonnet?

>>52404770
How is that not fun? Equality for everyone!

>>52404529
mage suck get over it already

>>52404920
vampire suck get over it already

>>52404802
It's all fun and games until he uses it to force his dick into your 10-year-old sister's ass which is also your own ass and the BBEG's ass (because Mind 9), this was all predetermined anyway according to Entropy 9, and let's ass rape Paradox too, why not? After all, Prime 9...

>>52404938
Masters of the Art is practically rape fantasy.

>>52405004
With the power of Prime 9 you can make a universe where one universal force is rape. Rape in place of the strong nuclear force, it'll work!

Where the fuck is the latest vampire the masquarade book or is it all in the latest world of darkness books? Idk where to buy these books and on a whim I want to run the masquarade

>>52405075
Found the Japanese guy.

>>52405105
Someone already suggested remaking the current universe into one based on anime.

>>52402135

Pray no Archmage happens to be a weeaboo.

If I have Fate at 1, what spells are the best to get as rotes if I have a couple exp sitting and want to get some mileage out of this arcana as it is without raising it higher right now?

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>>52404445
No probs, it's been years since I read any of my recs but I got a lot of ideas for Wraith from those back in the day. Summer of Night especially, since I grew up around where it takes place.

>>52405168
Serendipity is FANTASTIC with Reach options, not only do you basically just ask your GM what to do next to solve a problem, but you can also ensure that there's a solution which plays to your strengths.

Oaths Fulfilled is also pretty good for what it is.

With a high enough potency, Quantum Flux is pretty good to just keep running. However with Fate 1 I just wouldn't bother, as you'll need to spend a LOT of dice just getting it to a point where it's worth casting.

>>52405243
>Stranger_things.jpg

>>52405271
I still haven't watched it yet, people keep telling me I would like it though for some reason this makes me suspect I wouldn't.

>>52405367
Suspect all you want man, but if you avoid watching it because of that you're only cheating yourself.

>>52405075
>Rape in place of the strong nuclear force, it'll work

Rapomagnetism?

>>52405503
Electrorapemotism

New to masquerade, looking at doing Nwcromancy for my first character, but it seems pretty limited for what I want. Specifically, path of bones is the closest to your typical necromancy, but after three dots it jumps to pushing souls out of bodies without further expansion on actually manipulating corpses. I'm going for a Von Carstein type vampire, but i get the impression that's not what the system wants, so is there a better way to go about this or will it just not work the way I envision?
Also forgive mistakes, I'm a filthy phoneposter.

>>52405075
>>52405503
>>52405533
What does Forces 9 do exactly? I didn't read that book.

Hey, which are the good books to get for Hunter: The Vigil? Should I just get the Horror Recognition Guide?

>>52405589
In Ascension?
Lets you redefine Cosmological Physics, bending the entire Universe and all it contains to your will. Including the complete destruction of every star, or even the suspension of the force of gravity, or SNF.
You could annihilate existence as we understand it.

In Awakening?
Allows you to, for a short period, completely and utterly control every aspect of Forces within the area of your spell's effect.

>>52405636
>Should I just get the Horror Recognition Guide?
Read Mortal Remains, for one

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>>52405589
>What does Forces 9 do exactly?

Ascension

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>>52401407
>As Above, So Below
I think this is what bugs me the most about Mage, even moreso than the ridiculous cosmic power wank. It's the same thing that bugged me about Ars Fagica and the animism in Werewolf, reskinning the mystery of real-world philosophy and hermeticism into faggy metaphysical "Exarchs" and "Spirits". It's just 3wiccan5me

>>52399165
Swap Malks and Gangrel, and swap Followers of Set and Giovanni

Who is considered to be older- a 70 year old vampire Embraces 50 years ago, or a 90 year old vampire embraced 20 years ago?

>>52405760
I can see your point about the Followers and the Giovanni, but I have seen many more edgy Gangrel PCs than edgy Malk PCs. Malks are usually "look at me!" idiots. Annoying as fuck, but not edgy.
Well, at least that´s how things go in my experience.

>>52405821
The first one. It´s all about how old you are as a vampire.

>>52405821
In vampire society, the former. In absolute age, the latter.

>>52405821
In terms of age 90 is always > 70

In terms of power, in VtM it depends on Generation of their sire.

In VtR 50 probably -> more blood potency than 20 but not necessarily.

WATCH NEAR DARK YOU FAGS

>>52405943
>NOT WHAT WE DO IN THE SHADOWS

>>52405943
>Caleb suggests they try giving him a blood transfusion to attempt to cure him. The transfusion successfully reverses Caleb's transformation

Oh fuck, so that´s where the Vampire:Bloodlines thinblood got the idea.

>>52405688
Anything else?

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>>52405989
Forgot pic.

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>>52398756
HARD MODE: Cams only
Malks
Toreador
Brujah
Nosferatu
Gangrel
Tremere
Ventrue

>>52405991
Always pack silver and a source of fire. Just as advice

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>>52405943

Better watch He Never Died.

Or Fright Night.

Or Midnight Son.

Or something from this list.

>>52406072
Dude tremere need to be waaay higher on the edge totem pole

>>52406074
In terms of the books, I mean. First time playing with it.

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>>52405943
I've made it a goal to watch every vampire movie ever made and I've been noticing a lot of material lifted straight from some real stinkers, not just relatively well known flicks like Near Dark. I guess they thought nobody would notice. For instance, the vampire cab driver thing is lifted from this shitter.

>>52406119
Oh, honestly the core and Mortal Remains will get you pretty far. MR is basically their soft 2e lore dump coupled with splat information on things that hadn't been invented when the core was out.

>>52406115
Only the ones that specialize into blood magic.

>>52406146
Yeah, because lots of Tremere, the mystical inventors of blood magic, DONT specialize in blood magic.

>>52406241
>the mystical inventors of Thaumaturgy

Fixed

>>52406114
Martin is legit one of the greatest movies I've seen in a long time, I highly recommend it regardless of vampiric content. It really kind of kills me to see it on the same list as Underworld and Byzantium though.

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>>52406114
The Lost Boys is perhaps my all-time favorite vampire film.

The music alone is great.

>>52405758
If you think Supernal Magic is just a reskinning of real-world Magic then you've mistaken the footprint for the boot.

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>>52406115
what makes them edgy tho

>>52406146
Any character of any clan can be played to be not edgy if you break the mold pf their stereotype enough.

But the Tremere grade their members on their magical prowess so the fact is those non magicy Tremere are a minority that doesnt really matter when we're talking about clan wide generalisations on edginess

>>52406336
Horrible magical experiments that can get almost as brutal as Tzimisce. The ruthless meritocracy (that's not really a meritocracy) that encourages being a sociopathic lying wizard.

The fact their existence comes from effectively raping two clans into either submission or extinction.

>>52406402
That and generally WoD powergamers love to make their characters as edgy as possible to compensate for their bullshit and Thaum is a minchkin's wet dream.

>>52406323
>Michael

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siXB3DkDexQ

>>52406141
Sweet, thanks. When you say core, do you mean the CoD corebook or the H:tV corebook?

>>52406499
Both, you need the CofD core since HtV is made for 1e and 2e is long since upon us. You'll have to kludge a few things but by and large CofD is compatible.

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One of the things I don't really get about Generation... Do vampires *know* their Generation? If so, wouldn't it be fairly simple to trace your lineage back since you only have to go back one parent and you only have at most like 12 people to find (assuming you already know 2 with Caine and Clan)?

>>52406639
They usually do know. I mean, your sire is probably going to tell you this.
If you have no clue, you can try to find out your Gen by paying attention to things like who can and who cant Dominate you, how much more (or less) blood you can hold than your fellows etc.
Of course, the Tremere can always help you with that.

>>52406639
Shovelheads and Caitiff won't, Anarchs might not, society vampires will likely know enough to trace their ancestry to an elder within the sect because they might be called on to prove their identity against vampire society record, the methuselahs older than that are hard to know anything firm about, and the vampires older than methuselahs are myths.

>>52406639
>One of the things I don't really get about Generation... Do vampires *know* their Generation?

Instinctually? No.

Vampires, for the most part, don't even know how many units of blood they have in their bodies: they usually just know whether they're feeling "empty, half-full or full".

And, bragging about your generation is more often than not a one-way trip to getting diablerists on your tail... and *asking* for what generation a vamp is can be taken as an insult in the worst possible way.

"Yeah, hey, so... I'm totally not thinking of drinking your soul or anything... but if I *was*, what generation are you? I mean, I wouldn't want to waste my time diablerizing someone of lesser generation, so this is just for the record..."

But yeah, several vampires (especially those only at 7th-10th generation) can usually trace their bloodline back to an Antedeluvian... unless you're part of a bloodline, rather than a clan.

And Caitiff have little to no chance of tracing the lines of blood back to the Antedeluvians.

>>52400047
Do we need to have this discussion every thread?

>>52407049
What is with caitiff anyway? Why does not having a chat with your sire remove the effects of your inherited vitae? Like, why does a 10 minute conversation with a Gangrel site determine whether I have protean, fortitude and animalism, or vicissitude, necromancy, and thanatosis?

>>52407189
It's a stupid way the developers gave the players the ability to customize their vampires. No more no less.

>>52407163
Apparently we do.

So, Monday Meeting Notes are up, and Signs of Sorcery yet again remains in the endless purgatory known as "Development."

I'm beginning to believe that the draft might be garbage and Dave just doesn't have the time or inclination for the significant revisions to make it publication ready.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm no longer optimistic about the book.

What's you favorite third Ruling Arcana and why?

>>52401543
This is what bait looks like children

>>52407279
mage fags are looking for any excuse to have dicks shoved down their throats

>>52407276
Anything but Prime, it's so fucking annoying making Prime Legacy Attainments.
They're such garbage.

>>52407263
>Silly anon trying to bait DaveB

I have mind 3, fate 2 and space 1. What are some praxes I should get

I can't wait for Signs of Sorcery...
Their advanced Legacy creation rules are much needed.
Also I want more stuff on yantras.
Pls?

>>52407451
I feel like you and I went for the same path but made very different choices space 3 mind 2 fate 1

>>52407460
>Signs of Sorcery...
>Their advanced Legacy creation rules

When did Dave state that SoS will have advanced Legacy creation rules?

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>>52407468
Mind is better than Space

Yeah I said it..

>>52407451
Psychic Domination, Mind Scan, Emotional Urging, Seredipity.

>>52407276

Obrimos with a legacy that provides Mind as a third ruling Arcana, like the Ascended Adepts.

>>52407350
>Silly anon trying to bait DaveB

Not bait, but it's a legitimate question.

Signs of Sorcery has been in development for a *very* long time without any updates. This plus the fact that Dave never released the promised post-release faq or legacy and adversary material raises questions about Dave's and/or OPP's commitment to Mage 2e.

>>52407487

Forces, Prime and Mind

Effective immunity to all energy, magical and mental attacks, and controls gravity.

I like it. Throw in some Space, Fate and Time, and he'll be the poster wizard for mage supremacy.

>>52407474
He's mentioned there will be information with regards to Attainments that require multiple Arcana, and so forth.
What's more, apparently the Forge Masters can access Lasting transformations of metals into their Perfected forms through Legacy use.

In addition to the transitory Matter spells, and the long, arduous process of repeated Twilight translations.

>>52407487
I fucking LOVE the Ascended Adepts.
They're just so fucking cool.

>>52407163
It's not that we want to have the discussion.

It's that idiots love to ask questions they need not ask.

>>52402047

Mummy always had aliens. The things upset that the Shan'Iatu blotted out their light as pubescent stars and now they live as things from between the stars.

This and all manner of other Cosmic Wankery have a Hateboner for the arisen. Because when you hate McDonalds corporate, you go harass their servers I guess...

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>>52403663

>200kg+ person

>>52398645
I once played a hunter who was forcibly blood bonded. Playing that out was weird to say the least.

If you want to get into oWoD vampire, which is best to read: 2ed or v20?

>>52407859
V20. Revised is better than 2e though.

>>52407189
It doesn't. Vampires can meet their sires all of once and develop clan characteristics without one lesson. Vampires can spend years with their sires, get brought up proper, and still not develop correctly before being quietly disposed of to hide the sire's failure vitae.

>>52407713
>200kg+
>person

>>52408378
Would it have been better if he'd said "neckbeard"?

>>52403708
Poison is the only way to deal with Mage players

>>52408586
Unless they're a life mage.

>Demon: the Descent gets a Night Horrors book

There we go, that's more like it.

>>52408633
Nah, still works fine. Notice that he said players, not characters.

>>52402047
...gua'uld?

>>52403708
>Why are Masquerade players so unashamedly biased?

Because they're obsessed with Caine's throbbing 10 incher.

Do you guys sometimes get ST-block and then snap out of it while seeing a single scene, hearing a music piece or whatnot? I just figured out the way to finish current chronicle and start another one after time skip so I'm feeling good

One question, do people ever bother with crossover games anymore?

>>52409046
Crossover as in players from different splats or crossover as in npcs from other splats appearing in games?

>>52409063
Players. I'm fine with NPC crossovers.

>>52409070
Then no. We tried this out back when I was a player and it was a failure. Maybe if we would pick splats without such wide disparity in power (Demon and VtR) it would be better but all in all it's not worth it IMHO.

>>52409046
Crossover is fine as long as there are no Mage players.

>>52409097
Or Mummy and Demon. These three game-lines are supposed to be above the rest.

Archmages are another thing entirely.

>>52409097
>>52409096
>>52409105
Alright just might force everyone to play Changling (as in The Lost, dear gawd not The Dreaming) or else it'll just be a bunch of Changlings and That One Werewolf.

>>52409105
Even Mummy and Demon are POTENTIALLY workable, because they don't have a whole player base that have a hardon about their supremacy.

Haven't met a single Mage player that could play well with other(splat)s.

>>52409116
Werewolf COULD work with a bunch of Changelings. It'd depend on the player.

How would one list the splats to see which is compatible and which isn't?

>>52409105
Also big problem is reconciling the themes of various games
Changeling:
>I want to get my life back, play court intrigue and not get dragged back into rape basement
Vampire
>I want to keep my unlife, play court intrigue and not get dragged into elders rape basement. We can work with this
Werewolf
>I came here to arrest evil spirits
Changelling/Vamp
>Grab that weirdo with horns/shadow owl then!
Werewolf
>Uh those are outside of my jurisdiction

>>52409149
Yeah... I'd be rather tempted to say, "Okay Werewolf Player, your Werewolf is busy helping the Wolf-Blooded out because a spirit is bothering them again, so she's not present."

>>52409137
The player just really likes wolf things for some reason and would get a hard on with the regen when compared to weakish Changling PCs.

>>52409172
Maybe try offering the Wolffucker a Beast who was transformed into a wolf to guard his Keeper's forests or something, so they're all wolfy when they get back?

I mean, it's the one splat side from Werewolf that could satisfy wolffuckery, after all (aside from vampire and protean, of course).

>>52409181
...by Beast, I mean the Changeling type, not...fuck that game line.

>>52409181
That is true. But I'd never hear the end of not being an actual werewolf. Heck in the one shot with normal humie PCs he tried to get Luna to notice his PC.

And probably bring up Princess: The Hopeful instead.

>>52409193
And yeah, fuck the fact that it's called Beast to begin with. Great choice there.

>>52409181
Also I generally prefer having different Keepers to work with.

>>52409139
Just don't use mages, mummies or demons and you will be fine.

And especially not hunters.

>>52409209
Forgot the mechanics, every different splat has a different goal to manage anyway. Why would all these weird fuckers work together? xD

>>52409209
>And especially not hunters

And a huge 'NO' for Archmages.

>>52409208
It just makes sense, doesn't it? I've heard that some games have all the characters in a motley (or even a fiefdom) be from one or two keepers, and it just gets really weird and limiting, to me. It's like a big flashing light saying 'They're totally going to come back and you'll have to deal with them', too, rather than it being an ambiguous fear in the background.

>>52409209
>hunters
Because they're just so fucking weak, while mages mummies and demons are so fucking strong.

>>52409223
>Archmages
Because they are literally impossible to kill unless you're a god or another archmage.

>muh balance

>>52409200
Well, if they have THAT big a hardon for werewolves and they're that tryhard to be a BIG WEREWOLF DEAL, it doesn't suggest they'll play well with changelings. I mean, just from an outsider's perspective.

>>52409139
I would say
>Promethean
Can drag along everyone but then again disquaiet and torches and pitchforks
>Vampire and Changeling and Werewolves and Geists
Could work with each other to a degree but you would have to come up with reason why they stick together. Thou I do have some ideas
>Mummy
Ok was fun see you all in 1000 years
Demon
>Pssst it's me your ghoul Thomas
>Fuck Thomas you do not look like you
>Hey Jeremy why are you talking to that vamp and not acting like a proper wolfblood
>Guess I mistaken covers again
But on a serious note. Just don't
>Mage
Haha no. Unless a player is not the type that wants to steal spotlight all the time
>Beast
>Every other splat: OH GOD! PLEASE GOD NO! NO!

>>52409250
It's not like Beast likes itself either.

>>52409227
Maaaaan, in my D&D group one person got talking about Archfey patron warlocks and how his replacement character had their heart stolen by Titania who is yandere for him and I got sad about how he would probably never explore that concept in a game line made for it.

>>52409242
Hence the "Okay the werewolf is off doing spirit world border patrol again and y'all still in the Hedge. Either roll a Changling or you don't get to play" solution. :P

>>52409254
People actually play Beast?

>>52409254
To be honest I could see some stuff in it that is workable but it does not deserve its own splat

>>52405248
>i take this merit so i don't actually have to think of a clever solution to game problems

Guess what merit I'm banning from my table.

>>52410008
Actually it's a spell.

And casting spells constantly to solve all your problems is kind of Fate's jam.
It's also going to attract attention from those Supernaturals who can detect Magic and Fate manipulation.

It's why I don't use it.

Also you could, you know, just talk to your players about not abusing something as opposed to banning it when it can actually work to serve a meaninful and potentially interesting purpose?

My only big complaint with beast us it doesnt really outline what a chronicle for a group of begotten is like ling term. Thats not even counting that the game seems to encourage on the verge of demanding you include them in the politics of other supernaturals.

I mean I could take the hunter approach and have it run like the beasts are antihero vigilantes

Redpill me on Thaumaturgy, why is it so good? Most powers are not that good

>>52410027
>Supernaturals who can detect Magic and Fate manipulation.

Beside other mages and maybe changeling what others are there?

>>52410027
>you know, just talk to your players about not abusing something as opposed to banning it

I love how mage 2nd is a "well designed game" when half the time it requires either dm fiat or player not using their full abilities to run correctly.

>>52410212
As far as I can tell, even with the "revisions", the point of Beast is...to...go around terrorizing and murdering people, then baiting Heroes into attacking you so you can kill them too?

While feeling self-righteous and persecuted?

...maybe they form clubs and meet up for poker once a week to compare victim stories?

>>52410326
Which is where my problen arises. How do i stretch out a game where the goal is "fuck up innocent by standards until nature decides to fuck back" past at the least 3 or 4 sessions. It doesnt seem conducive to long form gaming

How useful is Necromancy? It seems like I basically have to take the Sepulchre path, and the books don't actually have much info on how useful a ghost is. How easily can a ghost I summon kill me, and how can I use ghosts other than as spies? I'd like to be capable of being dangerous as a vampire, not JUST a ghost spy master, and definitely not as "that asshole who got turned to ash by Caspar the Not-So-Friendly-Ghost", since the flavor text implies ghosts basically hate you for being a necromancer.

>>52410372
The only way to win the game is not to play it.

>>52410326
In general Beasts as written come off as more morally repugnant vampires. Nah I would say they are more repugnant Strix because at least those have excuse of being unable to get a point of morals.

>>52410398
Pretty much.

When I have any interest in vampire or making vampire-related characters, it's about making generally decent people in terrible situations doing their best to hang onto their humanity.

I can't see anything resembling that in Beast, it's all weird immature power fantasies and sociopathic behavior and serial killing, all the way down.

>>52410406
Yup I tend to go for similar portrayal in my VtR games. But then again I can at least try to put some grey into Seers of the Throne and such.

But honestly Beasts can get fucked

>>52410406
I think it's fun to do more monstrous vampires- I like the Paths for this reason- but at the same time I still try and portray them as, well, not absolutely deserving of destruction. Virtuous, in their own, bizarre-ass way. My favorite paths, for this reason, are the Feral Heart (no needless killing, huge focus on loyalty) and Honorable Accord (HONOR).

Honestly, I'm never really certain how to do human vampires- it always seems to me a vampire either has to be an asshole or a slave, with no real in between- if they're not, then why don't they just skiddadle rather than participate in the frankly awful vampiric society? The Camarilla are powerhungry cunts, the Sabbat are monsters- there's not really a lot of room for really human characters.


... plus, I don't entirely see the appeal of being human in a game about being an undead bloodsucker.

>>52410615
See, now, this is also an acceptable way to play vampires to me (the 'generally decent people in terrible situations' poster).

I mean, say what you will about the tenets of dedicated factionalism, at least it's ethos.

Beasts are just a bunch of assholes that don't actually want anything, don't actually do anything, other than be serial killer/stalker/rapist assholes at pretty much random strangers.

>>52410615
I'm a VtRfag so no idea how it works in masquerade but I tend to portray my elders at least as more "off" then evil. Thou my players are usually in a "runforit"mode whenever they are talking to elders because I tend to play up foul tempers and mood swings

So any advice for a fm intending to run a changing the lost game? I was thinking of setting it in Munich or Milan, hadn't quite made up my mind. Thinking of having the party deal with court politics, mages and some fey weirdness. Wondering what might be some good ideas to use. Alternativly I thought of setting the game in Texas, turning up the GRIMDARK dial up to full and introducing cartels, and an implacable assassin, drawing inspiration from no country for old men. Only problem with the later is I have never been to the US of A and know very little about Texas aside from the stereotypes. Any advice?

>>52407681
>The things upset that the Shan'Iatu blotted out their light as pubescent stars and now they live as things from between the stars.
I have zero memory of this in any of the books I read. Was it in Book of the Deceived? That one I didn't give as tight a read as the others.

Are the shan'iatu and the gods of Irem descended from space spirits now? I thought Luna existed to stop that shit. I guess you could kind of interpret their universe's origin story in Dreams of Avarice as like the Black Moon in Evangelion.

>>52411412
Poll your players and find out how much they'd want to explore the whole 'regaining their old/building a new life' aspect of the game, rather than Court politics or nefarious villains, first.

It is a pretty core aspect of the game for a lot of people interested in playing it.

Is there a Legacy where I can use my virginity as a Yantra? A maiden untouched by a man?

>>52411412
>>52411492
I mean, I've been working on a character concept for the past month or two (too busy to actually game right now) in my spare time, and pretty much 95% of this pondering and thinking and imagining I've been doing has just been centered around their life before abduction, what happened during it to change them, and how they'll carve out at least a starting place for day to day living and rudimentary human relationships after their escape, not anything about Court Politics or villainous doings or whatever else.

I might not be your normal (I say this in a bad way) player, though.

>>52411478
>I have zero memory of this in any of the books I read. Was it in Book of the Deceived? That one I didn't give as tight a read as the others.
Yes, it's in "Book of the Deceived". It's mentioned within one of the Affinities.
>>52407681
>Because when you hate McDonalds corporate, you go harass their servers I guess...
The lore of Mummy is a Cosmic Layer Cake of Pettiness and Failure. I'd say it's working as intended.

>>52409149
>Changeling / Vampire
FEEDING
They both feed and from people. changeling feed from emotions. vampires feed from blood.

>>52412004
>The lore of Mummy is a Cosmic Layer Cake of Pettiness and Failure

Hey, the Rite of Return worked as intended at least for the Arisen.

The final revelations of what happened to the Shan'iatu in Dreams of Avarice is basically the funniest fucking thing ever.

>>52402827
Mad Max: Fury Road
I'm not even kidding.

>>52412010
Yeah I guess that is another thing. I need to read up something more about changeling. I guess there should be some type changelings would feel fine among vampires

>>52412098
How does that movie fit Wraith?

>>52412049
>The final revelations of what happened to the Shan'iatu in Dreams of Avarice is basically the funniest fucking thing ever.
Especially in the light of what Temakh believe.

I'm kind of new to CoD, but I know there are supernatural abilities and merits that can do some pretty wacky things for Hunters, like Benedictions and Laying on hands. But is there something that works as a ghetto Celerity? I was hoping to have a Hunter that could challenge a PC Vampire group in a one-on-one situation after he was able to lure them into traps and the like, the quintessential old school vampire hunter running around with stakes, blades doused with holy water and the like. Is this something possible without having to go the ghouling route?

>>52412130
Wasteland devoid of life.
Remnants of a previous world utilized to their utmost.
An autocracy that uses people as things - both as servants and resources.
Fighting for what you believe.
Hope to be found in companionship and character growth.
Visions and Harrowings.

>>52412163
As if they'd even countenance what actually happened could be a thing. The Temakh are basically bitter shards of bitter assholes who want nothing more than Azar to pat them on the head and tell them everything they did was right and justified and they're the REAL heroes. They are the embodiment of self delusion, and a key part of that delusion is how they need the other shan'iatu to have succeeded to justify themselves.

>>52412130
>>52412244
I was thinking about it after they suggested it, and, yeah, I came up with most of these, too. It actually fits surprisingly well.

>>52412120
Spring and Deava get along like white on rich.
Autumn and Nos get along like black on tar.
Ventrue fall into madness. All you got to do is identify the themes that they work with, and find the ones that overlap

>>52402827
Over the Garden Wall is a Wraith Game where all the players thought they were playing Changeling.

>>52412374
Hmm I could imagine plot with Changeling having his city plowed by loyalists and true fae. Then he runs to the next largest city and discovers there isn't much in a way of courts there but there is large community of vampires. When in Rome

>>52405935
>In VtR 50 probably -> more blood potency than 20 but not necessarily.
Only if the 20-year-old's a diablerist. 50 years is enough to get a free BP but not long enough to sleep it off again.

>>52412010
>>52412551
One important thing to remember is that Changelings don't harm people by feeding off their emotions. It's ambient glamour.

So a changeling/vampire buddy team could "double-team" someone for feeding, in theory, with the changeling just being in relatively close proximity, even hidden, while the vampire engages in either one or the other sort of feeding of their own.

Makes changelings pretty effective vampire compatriots, since they don't step on each other's toes over resources.

>>52412591
>Only if the 20-year-old's a diablerist.
Or just used merit points or exp for it, representing deliberate effort to increase blood's power on the part of the vampire.

>>52400047
Really Old Vampires can do really weird things, but a real challenger may be a Earthbound Demon, their power are often compared to the ones of the Old/Elder Gods of Cthulhu Mythos, one of the most powerful beings in fiction, and in terms of reality warping (or more like reality raping) they can be in equal footing if they have enough Faith.

>Some Beasts hunt easy victims to feed their Horrors: unrepentant slave owners, arrogant Confederate sympathizers, members of supremacist militias. Other Beasts are those unrepentant slave owners, arrogant Confederate sympathizers, or members of supremacist militias. And some Beasts may simply be confused, hardworking folk whose families owned no one, who sent no sons to war and who find it unfair to be called upon to pay a debt they did not incur.

This one paragraph sounds like a better pitch for Beast than the entire actual game line, with the Primordial Dream being so fucked up by the Civil War that it just spontaneously starts making Bests to feed on everyone and everything.

>>52412631
I believe they steal willpower in 2ed. or at least that is how it's being framed by preview.

>Hiding
even in 1ed the changeling had to at least participate in some small manor

A fall changeling + Nosferatu Vampire Mug a guy in a dark alley
"Your Money or your Life"
"Why not both?"
Get fear emotion
Get Blood
Get 20bucks

>>52412763
Well, they had to be there, but they didn't have to cause whatever the emotion was.

I mean, they could go to support groups and funerals and just soak up the emotion.

Also, not sure what to think of 2e. I don't like this Huntsman business and some of the other changes, at all.

>>52412917

>>52412793
reread harvesting page 89 in the core book Emotions. you have to produce some action. how can you preform an action if you are passively hiding?

>Willpower page 89 last paragraph on harvesting
"... However, whispers tell of mortals who are subjected to regular harvestings over a long period of time eventually losing some indescribable yet vital spark."

It's been there from the beginning just never expanded upon.

>huntsman
The Huntsman is just a focal design point. A stand in for some method of tricking and recapturing changelings. people just complain about it because it makes anyone a possible loyalist, which has always been a possibility to a point.

What is of actual annoyance is new courts, and thats only because of the overhead not being there.

>Hedge
The hedge was always scary. and the pain thing isn't new. the alluring pain is weird. but the psychoactive effects of the hedge have been there.

4chan has a hate boner for Hill's sjw stick

>>52413162
I didn't say anything about Willpower draining or the Hedge. I also didn't say anything about Hill, as I have little opinion on him (aside from Beast sucking). Kindly don't assume, particularly given that I said "don't know what to think of it", not "fuckin sucks".

And my problem with the Huntsman is that all this "focal design point", as you put it, that its getting, will lead to storytellers feeling they need to have one appear in virtually every game, possibly multiples of them in a given story, just like, apparently, a lot of hack Lost STs seemed to think that Keepers should show up like bloody Mormons at your front door in every chronicle. Tricking and recapturing changelings, at least as I interpreted 1e, wasn't exactly a common occurance, it's just such a massive nightmare scenario that changelings live in constant fear and paranoia of it happening (and channel/sublimate that in various ways that involve the Courts).

>>52413430
>Beast Credits
Writers: Rose Bailey, Dave Brookshaw, Jim Fisher, Emily
Griggs, Andrew Heston, David A Hill Jr, Dana Hughes,
Matthew McFarland, Renee Ritchie, Travis Stout, Peter
Woodworth, Sam Young
Developer: Matthew McFarland

You can lay the blame on Hill as much as you lay the blame on Dave. but the man in charge was Matt

>changelings live in constant fear and paranoia
Yeah isn't that the point?

Your problem lies within heavy handed STs and not in the system or the game. A change of rules systems will not change your ST problem.

Hell 1ed had Fair Entrance a goblin contract which allows you entrance into your enemy's lock places at the cost that your other enemies can get to you.

>>52413430
I will backpetal somewhat. and do agree that your approach of wait and see is a nominally reasonable one. and apologize if my responses have been combative

>>52414142
It's cool, it wasn't that bad, I'm just kind of tired, so I may have over-responded myself. Apologies.

Also, I really really like 1st edition Lost, so I'm really anxious about how 2nd turns out. It might be my favorite RPG ever (1st, that is).

>>52401372

This isn't the first time I've rolled my eyes at Dave. But if I had to stat the Judges, G-M, Luna, or the like, I'd probably base it on High-level archmages, since there's no other representation of that level of power.

Other splats have their own "representation" in the ascension war, and I love the idea of the G-M freezing an Exarch's assets until true ownership can be determined.

>>52414684
>This isn't the first time I've rolled my eyes at Dave. But if I had to stat the Judges, G-M, Luna, or the like, I'd probably base it on High-level archmages, since there's no other representation of that level of power.
Imperial Mysteries actually has a thing for you to kludge together beings like Luna: she effectively has constant access to the Practice of Transfiguration for anything in her themes. So she can do literally anything that symbolically relates to the Moon, Change, Madness, etc at any time.

This makes her more powerful than equivalent Archmasters, who need to spend a while gathering together the necessary Quintessence just to accomplish one such effect.

>>52401372
>>52414684
Note that this is him saying that the God-Machine is a puppet controlled by the Exarchs *when he runs Mage*, and everything else says they both use each other.

Ostensibly if he was running Demon the Exarchs would be puppets controlled by the God-Machine.

>>52414957

But I prefer the G-M having it's own side in the ascension war.

>>52415091
That's perfectly fine and doesn't contradict anything Dave said in any of those screencaps.

The G-M is certainly large-scale enough.

>>52413644
>You can lay the blame on Hill as much as you lay the blame on Dave

DaveB wrote the Lairs chapter in Beast. Unsurprisingly, it one of the few section some people like.

In any event. to the extent blame is required, the buck stops at the developer. They maintain the vision and creative control and give direction to the various writers.