Exalted General - /exg/

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>>52341016
Miracles of ancient wonder

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Speaking of Manses, what do we know about them in this edition? 2e had varied, wondrous powers that they could have, and they strictly speaking didn't need to be a building, but could instead be a single room in one or a statue or sculpture in a field.

>>52341016

We once constructed a manse which followed our army around and controlled all the soldiers with mind control so we didn't need to train them or anything and providing essence artillery support.

>>52341019

>fu-sion HA! charm

neat

>>52341016
what are your favorite sidereal martial arts (purely going by flavor not brokenness/power/utility)

>>52343000

Obsidian Shards of Infinity style is cool. Mirrors are cliche but I like it.

>>52343000
I am new to Exalted so I don't know much beyond 3E. Can you tell me about the Sidereal Martial Arts? What I was told about them was that rather than emulating animals and stuff like regular martial arts, they embody concepts, which makes them more powerful and weird. Is that accurate? What are the various styles like?

>>52343000
Ivory Pestle Style. I just love whacking people with a stick.

>>52343109

The SMA's are the ultimate in martial arts, it's basically like Neo from the Matrix. Hacking reality with sufficiently advanced kung-fu. You can punch someone so hard they start aging backwards. You can punch someone so hard they permanently lose the ability of interpersonal communication. You can punch someone so hard they turn into a duck.

There was even a combo in 2nd edition known as Creation Slaying Oblivion Kick which lets you punch everything in the universe simultaneously and irrevocably destroy it.

>>52343170
Which SMA allows you to punch someone into a duck?

>>52343221
Charcoal march of spiders

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>>52343000

In no particular order. Prismatic Arrangement of Creation due to touching on weird themes, being interesting with form charms, and leaning more towards the "Martial Arts as a path to enlightenment" rather than "Martial Arts as a path to knocking someone out" angle.

Border of Kaleidoscopic Logic due to simply being so "holy shit, what the fuck is going on" and having a "behold my true form" penultimate charm.

Citrine Poxes of Contagion for having interesting ways of fight, assassinating, having supernatural diseases, wiping out entire nations with supernatural diseases, theoretically having supernatural diseases that infect the soul and persist through all of your reincarnations, and so on.

Hoping to see these three make it into Ex3. I know that the firs two are kind of iconic from 2e, and the third has been there from the start, so here's to hoping.

>>52343109
Charcoal march of spiders allow you to punch everyone in a city twice in the same second. It is the less powerful of the Sidereal Martial Art.

Obsidian Shard of Infinity breaks every rule of the game and has no less than three perfect defenses with no downsides.

Quicksilver Hands of Dream makes reality a dream, with you the lucid dreamer.

Border of Kaleidoscopic Logic Style allows you to become Magical Godzilla, the kind that topple building and break souls just by being here.

>>52343221
depends on if you mean "turns them into a duck" or "force them into, through, or inside a duck"

>>52342661
We know almost nothing, the Merit blurb says they can have various quality of life magics built in, and many of the broad area powers are now part of the Hearthstone rather than the Manse.

>>52341016
I'm thinking about running a game where the PCs are gods who decide to take on the mantles of the Incarnae in order to try and save Creation, should I have the players make original E4-5 spirits or take on the roles of NPC gods? Because one player is making a good case for Little Beam fighting Five Days for dad's job.

>>52344007
Original gods sounds more fun to me, but really it's up to your players.
Is there any reason you couldn't do both?

Would a god of homeless bums have power over homeless bum gods?

>>52344027
I'm worried about players using NPCs getting unique charms that are too powerful.

Can anyone help me to understand Supreme Celestial Focus? I get how it works, but I'm confused about its limitations.

Lets say that I'm Essence 3, and want to use the charm to raise my abilities. Can I only raise a single craft ability from 0 to 3? Can I raise a craft ability from 2 to 5? Can I raise three craft abilities from 0 to 1, or raise one from 0 to 1 and another from 0 to 2? Can I raise three abilities from 0 to 3? Which one is it?

>>52343000

Mirrors/reflections in Obsidian Shards, strings/webs in Charcoal Spiders and how thematically well they fit in with the whole Loom of Fate and the reality fixing deal.

How do you feel about this Infernal Monster expansion? Would you allow it?

http://pastebin.com/mMWsnXHL

In case someone cares, a clutch of dragons now has anima powers and so on for DBs.https://docs.google.com/document/d/1V010JsBCcPNV6612dQJ7eVRUj1PLaCJ7FX5XQJ0Av1o/edit

>>52344272
At E1 you can raise [Craft you don't have yet] from nothing to 5. This costs 3gxp for the first dot, and then 2gxp(current dots), so 3 then 2 then 4 then 6, then 8 for a total of 23 gxp. 19 if it's favored.
At E2 you can do this again, raising [different Craft you don't have yet] from 0 to 5, but this time it costs double. So 6 then 4 then 8 then 12 then 16 for a total of 46 gxp. 38 if it's favored.
At E3 you can buy another craft, but the cost does not increase again. This trend continues till you max out on essence or your GM quits in a huff or kills your Solar for abusing Craft.

ghost cestus is in form for solar style yes?

I ask because pankrator's cestus seems to have been singled out as compatible for some reason.

also, and what is pankrator's cestus?

>>52346520

>abusing Craft.

Wouldn't need to be abused if it wasn't so shit.

Since no one's talking about anything, have any of you used Craft extensively in your games? How did it turn out? What interesting things did you make? How did you mange gathering resources?

>>52346546
followup question, does the razor harness count as a weapon? my guess is it does and so cannot be used unless the martial art says it can

>>52346635
final question, do armor or armor-like qualities granted by charms count as armor for disqualifying you from martial arts? I would have thought not, but infernal monster's specific permission makes me question that. ...do lunar knacks then count as armor(assuming the charm doesn't go out of it's way to say it does)?

>>52346634
I like it better than the mess that was 2e, and probably don't have as big of gripes as some other people do around here. I found it works well and actually makes artifacts that are made feel cool rather then just a thing that took a long time to build. Now all we need is a proper book of cool artifacts like the codex from 2e

>>52347310

True, it averts the "Downtime wizard" problem, but I still don't like the Craft ability split and keep trying to pick things to give me the broadest cover, such as masonry, carpentry, and smithing. I'd complain about other things like "What's the difference between a 3 and N/A dot artefact?" and "Just what the fuck is Magitech anyway?" but I'm waiting for Arms to hit before I start criticizing in earnest.

Do you use any craft homebrew or overhauls, or do you just take it as is?

>>52347385
I like it. And I like the craft split mostly because ST to ST it can change to be whatever it wants. It also puts more focus on mundane things instead of the what....fifteen craft skills 2e had?

>>52347498

True, STs can also dictate what Attribute you use for each roll, instead of something codified like Int or Dex. Not sure how I feel about that one to be honest.

>>52347689
I'm gonna go ahead and assume thats just so that attribute exalts can have a bit more breathing room when it comes to craft. Let's face it just about every roll is still gonna be Int, like most every craft charm I can think of that uses an attribute uses int

>>52347930

You're right but I suppose you could make a case for Dexterity (Gemcutting and other fine work) which is already used for destroying Hearthstone and in the Bracers of Universal Crafting.

Who the fuck doesn't max out Dexterity anyways.

>>52347930
>. Let's face it just about every roll is still gonna be Int, like most every craft charm I can think of that uses an attribute uses int

>Building a house with Int
>Smithing a sword with Int
>Painting with Int

>>52348005

Raises a good question: What attributes would you use?

>>52348073
Strenght/Stamina
Strength
Int

>>52348097
>not painting with Charisma

>>52348130
Well I mean if you're a sidereal you paint with your Persuasion so...

Hmm, is there any kind of craft roll you'd use Wits on?

>>52348467

Moonsilver, in a sort of "What the fuck is this metal trying to do" kind of way.

>>52348510
>>52348467
Oh, maybe for making like a puzzle box or something? Or a chest with a false bottom and so on.

anybody care to make(or find) a homebrew dragonblood charm that allows limited manipulation of existing pools of their element? I'm not terribly good at balancing things. thanks

Does any lore break if I state that all akuma are rendered sterile(including ruining their flesh for nemoah) and that mortal akuma are no stronger than demonbloods or modern lintha?

I'd put "sciencey shit" as int rolls, "non-scientific but still clever or complicated" as wits, fine detail or control as dex....

also I suppose you could always use [(attribute+attribute)/2 rounded down] rolls if you're really split on whether something is perception or strength or whatever and only break things for lunars.

>>52350525

The only thing missing would be Akuma learning Celestial and Solar Circle Sorcery, so no more Total Annihilation suicide bombers.

who runs out of motes first, green lantern or the average 2e solar who'd been active a few years?

>>52351064
Green Lantern?

>>52351064
Does the solar have that "turn my shadow into a discount lantern ring" artifact?

Either way, it doesn't matter. Unless greenlantern's bubble is a perfect defense(it isn't) hes fucked

>>52351236

I mean, they'd maybe fight similarly, both playing rocket tag with paranoia combo and mote attrition duels, but they're not in the same league. Solar rockets are nukes not an rpg...try pairing with a dragonblood instead.

>>52350050
I think I saw somebody post some Avatar conversion charms that included bending awhile ago, but the search here is a pain in the ass so you'll have to find it yourself.

So what do you guys think of Lore? Do you like how you're able to grant XP to other players, knowing that you may never get it all back? Do you think its combat support charms are helpful for playing a support character, even if you forgo other combat abilities? What about Wyld Shaping? DO you think it could've been done better?

I know lunar limit breaks are traditionally animal based, but what do you think of these? http://pastebin.com/UWzVjjMt

>>52346130
Is all of the clutch of dragons thing collected somewhere?

>>52353034
Check the homebrew folder in the OP.

>>52353056
missing the new anima addition

>>52353529
Nigga it's right there.
The file called: ACoD: Aspects

Which decade is best if I'm running Exalted but with modern (1800s to contemporary history) aesthetics? Getting a little bored of sword and sorcery, as that's every game I play right now

>>52353724
If you don't run 1860s-1890s wild west exalted you are a huge faggot and you are not my nigga

>>52353724

SPACE

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Is it normal to have a negative intimacy towards circle members?

All of them?

>>52354856

if you've a negative intimacy against all your circle, then why are you traveling with them?

>>52354911
Because the Deathlord we're fighting is empirically worse.

>>52343170
>There was even a combo in 2nd edition known as Creation Slaying Oblivion Kick which lets you punch everything in the universe simultaneously and irrevocably destroy it.

I believe it let you hit them twice :P

>>52346634

I believe it's impossible to use Craft without abusing it, by design.

My current game is using Craft houseruled to heck and back, but in previous ones, we built flying Hogwarts, and baked a cake so delicious people killed themselves by gorging on it.

>>52343156
That's actually a Terrestrial MA. Busted as hell, though.

>>52351867

No. I houseruled and re-wrote the Lore charms to be about instant lyslamming knowledge into people's minds ala The Matrix's "I know Kung-Fu" instead of XP gambling.

Does anyone have the 3e Charm cards?

how powerful is the bonfire that Flight of the Brilliant Raptor leaves behind in play? difficulty 5 4L seems pretty brutal

>>52354856
Do you only have negtive intimacies for them, or alos positive ones?

>>52356884

If you can find some way to stop people moving the hell out of it, it's pretty nasty. I built a grappler with Unburnt Majesty to try and take advantage of it. Never got to play him, though.

>>52353724
1910-ish or space-age
(or i suppose you could also go with the steam and clockwork and flintlocks era)

>>52356405
people keep saying things like that but never share charms

>>52356366

The more that I look at craft, the more I feel that the Solar charmset is meant to abuse it by design. How else can you explain Solars being able to crack out powerful artefacts so quickly and easily, or being able to simply generate craft xp passively?

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>>52344070
Yes.
They should. It would be delicious.

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>>52346692
I'd say no.

>>52348073
Strength/Stamina
Strength/Into
Charisma/Manipulation

>>52356653
Aren't they in the op? Or are your cards different from the tree?
Do you mean like the basic info of the charm in an info card style?

>>52357998
>Drop fucking firebird on someone
>They try to leave the area
>Just fucking full tackle them back into the fire
>Put them in a headlock
>Don't let them leave

10/10 my sides have smashed the dome of heaven.

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>>52347310
>You need to craft one hundred individualized shoes (with individualized owners in mind, and individualized stories) before crafting a glorious solar pumps.
>Unless you are ball deep in the solar craft tree. In that case you just need to snap your fingers.
>Infinite XP loop in the craft tree.

We all understand the intent behind the new craft: to make crafting something worthwhile, difficult, and rewarding. We all understand that 2e was flawed in that it was too easy to mass produce artifacts, and not enough thoughts were made to make the artifacts unique.

We all understand that (bitch).

The implementation of that intent is the worst thing to have ever graced 3e. It is a fractally flawed implementation, with issues over issues over issues over issues, until the system is only a big piles of issues with no good design decision in sight. It doesn't work. It won't work, even with the best ST in mind. It is that bad.

You are confusing intent with implementation. The intent is good. The implementation won't work.

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So what's the best way to run Exalted 3e games online? Roll20 seems like the default but I dunno if I'm a huge fan of it, is there anything more suitable?

On that note, any suggestions for helping people who are new to Exalted wrap their heads around it, I'm trying to help my players get into it, but some are having issues really understanding it.

>>52360430
Pretty much. Craft thinks that having stupid shit like endlessly recursive non-bonus charm die is a good idea. Barely any of the charms give you the sense that "I am a legendary artificer"; you get Melee charms, and boom, you're a better fighter. Get Craft charms, and you've gotten -1 gold xp cost for your next project or some other boring thing.

Why didn't they just use the Sorcerous Workings template for Craft and drop all the dice tricks?

>>52360515

There's also the discord platform or skype. Hell I use mIRC even

>>52360430
Personally, I'd prefer the difficulty of creating artifacts being mostly due to them requiring specific materials and tools that are hard to obtain. You need to make your artifact out of something strange and powerful, and you probably need something more than a regular hammer, anvil and forge to workthose materials. This should be enough to prevent fast and easy mass-produciton of artifacts. It would also help if there were more worthwhile things you could do with Craft aside from creating artifacts.

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>>52360628
What do you use for dice? A bot of some sort, or an external site?

>>52360571

Probably the fact that Craft being a broken, convoluted mess keeps Solars as the unequivocal best due to having a charmset build around scything through most of the craft system itself. At Essence 1, with the right charms, a specialty, will two stunt dice will be able to successfully craft a 5 dot artefact just under 75% of the time, and will only become more competent as time goes on. While we don't have craft charms for other Exalts yet, it's unlikely that they'll be able to approach that level until they're at higher levels of essence.

The SW system, in contrast, allows even Terrestrials to attempt Solar Workings and have a decent chance if they have enough Sorcerous Means. I love, the SW system, it's great,but I don't think that it's a panacea for broken, nonfunctional systems. It's really its own thing.

>>52360774

On IRC? A dicebot. It was known as HammersIRC Exalted bot, but one of my players is a computer programmer and has heavily retooled it.

I'd share, but right now I'm on a vacation computer and the IRC on this computer doesn't have the dicebot program installed. When the player comes online tomorrow I'll ask if he'll give it to me and see if I can throw it up here.

>>52360809
I thought working could only be up to one higher than your current level like at best terrestrial sorcerers can finale a celestial working. or have I been reading that wrong

trying to get a handle on exalted, as people more experienced with the system, what's the average feat of strength you'd say an average solar pc can just about make most of the time?

what about average difficulty on other rolls?

how does this differ from 2 to 3e?

>>52361058
There's no average Solar PC.

A Solar PC ball deep into feat of strength charms can ass rape a thirty foot tall giantess and restrain her by her huge muscles.

A Solar PC that has no focus on feat of strength will be able to lift a small rock out of the surface of Creation, or something like that.

>>52359597
I mean the Third Edition Charm Card pdfs.

>>52361035

Terrestrial Scorcerers are locked out of Solar Circle workings of Ambition 3. (P. 488)

>>52360809
Any charm set built around the idea of circumventing an entire broken system instead of working with it is a bad charm set, without even taking into consideration the infinite XP loops and other bullshit.

Solars having charms giving them bonuses is perfectly fine. Solars having charms avoiding the entire system because it is so fucking broken is a band-aid. Solars having charms avoiding the entire system and adding even more brokenness is moronic.

>>52343000
Real talk: does Dreaming Pearl Courtesan Style count as Sidereal? I feel like 3e might have it in mind to change the definitions for martial arts, having already reworked the Terrestrial/Celestial/Immaculate definitions.

Regardless, I do like the style. I feel like they started from "lets have three social-themes MAs, one for each of the Social attributes" and ended up with something entertainingly weird for Appearance.

How do you handle improvised weapons? I'm considering making it "if you can succeed at the feat of strength plus one difficulty higher to account for carrying it -without me feeling the need to ever make you roll- you may use it as an improvised weapon"

>>52361825
I don't think so, I imagine SMAs will still be their own weird thing so as to not be hobbled by having to make a version accessible to the lower tiers.

SMAs shouldn't have a Mastery keyword or anything, they should just be flat inaccessible to most splats.

>>52361097
I feel like we could add those two numbers and divide by two to obtain an average, or instead chose to answer him with an estimated mode(which would be more inline with the spirit of the question)

>>52361825

No, it's strictly Celestial.

>>52361825
Are you thinking of "Quicksilver Hand of Dreams"?

>>52361850

Why would you need a feat of strength test to carry around a six inch long shiv?

>>52361907
you don't. but you might if you tried to insist you could carry a log, in which case you can't do it unless you're just THAT inhuman it makes no difference.

What do you think of the sample artifacts in the corebook?

>>52362212
>>52361850

But feats of strength aren't rolled. It's just totaling up your attributes not scraping together a dice pool to beat that number

>>52362214

Not as coll or inspiring as the sample artefacts in the leak. The devs hinted that they might redo one of the artefacts to fit the new upcoming evocation paradigm and I'm hoping that they don't waste it on updating Waifuklave.

>>52343000
I'm a sucker for obsidan shards of inifity and charcoal march of spiders. that last one wins for siddies just because of spiders.
But my absolute favorite is Prismatic Arrangement of Creation. It just conveys the feeling highlevel martial arts invoke in real life, being more about enlightenment of self, oneness with the world and it'sj ust the pinnacle of magical kung fu in this regard.

>>52362307
What, thay are rolled str and athletics

>>52362329
you know they will

Can you reset charms like Divine Induction Technique and Essence Gathering Temper with the action you used them on?

>>52362307
I'd suggest you look at the rules for feats of strength.

>>>/qst/1301733

Someone made an Exalted quest.

That someone is me.

need help fluffing a cold version of red rage of compassion that involves a monte cristo type plotting of the target's downfall and possibly some form of torture

>>52358114

http://howsfamily.net/Exalted/wiki/index.php?title=House_Rules/Lore:_Education

>>52363185

Deliberate Cruelty?

>>52360571

At the risk of appearing to spam everyone with my Houserules...

http://howsfamily.net/Exalted/wiki/index.php?title=House_Rules/Tasks

>>52360430
Both of those things are wrong, and wrong to the point where I suspect this is bait.

>>52363071

You're not the only one.

I'm often afraid to post it here because the mods seem to have a raging hateboner for anything cross posted from /qst/

>>52364259

Dunno about the intent question, but that the implementation is flawed is beyond doubt. For one thing, a good chunk of the Craft tree (all the charms that deal with extra XP and Craft slots) is all trap - just get the Big Numbers charms, and you'll generate enough experience from remaining intervals that slots no longer become a limiting factor (you will gain more XP from completing the item in a slot than it cost to create the slot + item).

>>52364533

Speaking of trap charms; are the "Convert Craft XP to regular XP" an "Doombot all along" charms worth getting? They're both ten charms into the efficiency tree which I never really bought to deep into.

>>52363880
that's not the same at all, it's gotta be directed solely at somebody the solar thinks is evil because he saw him kick a puppy(and whoever gets in her way i guess), just a few days of cold scheming rage instead of a scene of "imma go punch him right now!"

>>52363829
neat thnx

>>52365477
Doombot serves the purpose of basically saying 'look if you're THIS deep in craft chances are you have little charms anywhere else, so have this so you don't eat it in big combats.'

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Serious question here:

Aside from the Crafting system and the inconsistency of the Charms, what's wrong with the Exalted 3e system? I feel like the core mechanics are decent enough, and the combat subsystem is a reasonably solid framework outside of having a new set of weird abstractions to deal with. (Other systems have Hit Points weirdness, this one has initiative weirdness.)

Is there anything else about 3e that's just flat-out bad? You know, aside from the release schedule.

>>52366097

You could easily be spending Solar XP on Martial Arts. Speaking of which, which MA has the best standalone setup? I've been using Snake but that wants to have Dodge on the side.

>>52366143

The rules and charms are written using a natural conversational style that, while making it easy to read, has a number of ambiguities on how things work, on top of this, fluff in the charm descriptions is intertwined with the crunch, making it impossible to simply tell what the charm does at a glance.

Wyld shaping in Lore is another mess, and only seems to be there because it has been since 1e.

>>52366157
Doesn't Steel Devil boost your attack and defense? Shining Point's not as good; it references Parry but doesn't boost it on its own, and if there's a better "the best defense is a good offense" MA I can't think of it.

>>52366203

Steel Devil is alright, but doesn't really fair well against high Defence opponents. How well does Snake pair with Crane? I know I asked for standalone styles, but I'll be spending Solar XP all the same.

>>52365477

Doombot is a panic-button, get out-of-jail free card. It's a great escape, but it's not going to make you dominate.

XP conversion will rapidly accelerate you past your circlemates if your game goes long enough for you to leverage it - although the amount of investment you've had to pour into Craft tends to dilute it a bit. I think it was errata-ed to not count towards gaining Essence any more, which was the big exploit.

>>52366143
I've been running for about two months now and so far I have no major complaints. Hell even the crafting system isn't giving me any major issues.

>>52366270
Snake gets a source of real decisive damage, while Steel Devil gets even more initiative. You won't get the fuckton of soak from snake, seeing as how Steel Devil has too many form charms as it is.

>>52366388

>needing to decisive attack while using snek

Don't bother. Just turn your opponent into a man whose arms are paralyzed and forced to crawl on the ground.

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>>52366195
Oh yes, I agree about the charms, although I disagree about the explanation. "Natural language" doesn't seem as accurate as "poorly edited".

I'm going to try rewriting as many of the charm trees as I can manage before I get bored. If I get really ambitious I might even rewrite Craft. Personally, I think the complexity of the Craft core system is based on the complexity of the Solar Charm tree. That, and the probably-wise decision to get rid of craftsmanship bonuses.

If I were rewriting Craft, I'd have a charm tree with three branches. One to let you bullshit items out of the air because no totally I can definitely make a strong enough chain out of that fish, one to let you substitute craft for other skills because I can make this tool so I can use this tool, and one as a complete substitute for the existing crafting system by providing a different framework for the crafting of artifacts.

I really don't get why it's so hard to make an artifact from a character creation perspective. The player can design an artifact and the GM can place that in a convenient tomb. Craft charms shouldn't be a way to buy Merit points any more than you should need lots of Bureaucracy charms to start with Resources. You shouldn't be buying charms so you can buy evocations. There has to be more to it than that.

>>52366371
I'm very interested to hear how it's worked out in play for you and your group. Especially crafting. ESPECIALLY especially how you've been running it versus how it's written. I know those won't be the same thing. I run Shadowrun. The players, and these people who only read the books, the people who talk about RAW as if that were how games work, they don't think it be like it is, but it do.

I forget, in 2e could mortals ever learn sorcery? and could godbloods ever reach above terrestrial?

>>52366143

The MA rules as-written (merit, per-style abilities) are over-priced, but that's easily houseruled.

The Bureaucracy "system" is basically "fluff it"

The Naval system is boring as all get-out (but it rarely comes up, so whatever)

The perennial BP/XP split, and natural language Charms

The abstract Resources system relates to mechanical systems, but isn't fleshed out enough to make sense (what is a "Resources 5 Purchase", what happens to your resources when you make it, or to your resources if you receive it?)

I find some stuff around the edges of the social system finnicky (retries, decision points, etc) and results in weird interactions - like it's better to not use an intimacy to resist an attempt to persuade you, and instead save it to use in the decision point, because you can guarantee the outcome of a decision point. The core's good though.

>>52366661
>I forget, in 2e could mortals ever learn sorcery?
Enlightened mortals with Essence 3 could.

>and could godbloods ever reach above terrestrial?
Nah, even Dragon-Blooded couldn't do that, and God-Blooded were weaker than them.

>>52366371

Have you used it for anything beyond mundane projects yet? It's artifacts where it really starts to break down, especially with Craft supernals.

>>52366484

I've DMed a game with a supernal Crafter. I let him re-do his whole Charm selection, when we found out how useless the slot/free XP charms were compared to the Big Numbers ones.

He also had built a quite complex spreadsheet to help him manage his various Craft XP, how many dice to roll when, which to re-roll, which exploded, how many free successes, etc, etc. I consider the necessity of such a tool to be a big checkmark against.

Because we were playing pre-errata, he hit E5 and got Solar Sorcery while the rest of the Circle was E3. The rest of the players weren't too bad with this, because it was sort of a playtest campaign, but I can imagine that sort of thing could make people unhappy.

And with all that, most of it was still "downtime wizard", so the system didn't achieve it's alleged intentions. The only Crafting things that were done in game-time were mundane, and produced with Craftsman Needs No Tools, so didn't really interact with the Craft system much. The need to hit Craft objectives in-game went away as soon as he crafted his first artifact.

>>52367003

How did you handle resource acquisition for artefact crafting? Presumably, Starmetal didn't fall out of his sleeves, but he would be able to get Jade due to it being money. Also, how long did it take him, in game, to create an artefact?

>>52366830
thanks

I am looking for some homebrew Exalted stuff I read awhile ago. The author detailed what had once been essentially a First-Age mall. Now it is filled with all kinds of factions trying to take control of the space and artifacts, including various tribes of mortals, a dragon-blooded archaeologist trying to explore it, and the now-malfunctioning AIs that once controlled it back in the day. Does anybody know what it was called or have a link?

I vaguely remember the mall itself was called the Emporium of something or other, with a typically really long exalted now.

>>52368614

That was on the old WW forums, where are deleted.

...But you're lucky as shit that it was one of the things I saved from the old boards.

Gimme a bit and I can post it.

>>52368680
Thanks, you rock!

>>52368730

Here you go

https://www.mediafire.com/?qil5yr0t00lor63

>>52369001
>https://www.mediafire.com/?qil5yr0t00lor63
Yes! you are truly an elegant gentleman. Thank you.

I also found this archive of some of the author's posts, which had the same writeup: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/85618-omicron-writes-stuff-hub-thread

>>52367502

Yeah, he mostly used Jade. He'd organised a mining concern using gangs of Earth elementals. He'd use geomancy to survey for deposits, then send in the rockmen.

I can't remember how long he took, but he succeeded in the first interval, so it was whatever the minimum time from Thousand-Forge Hands was.

>>52370378

>Succeeded at the firs interval

He presumably wasn't crafting a N/A artefact, then? TFH is (6-Essence) months for N/A and 5 dots artefacts and (6-Essence) for everything else.

>>52370641

Nah. I think he only crafted 1 N/A artifact in the campaign.

>>52370797

What did it do? Do you have a write up for it that you can post?

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What's the best splat for pirate antagonists?

>>52366829
>like it's better to not use an intimacy to resist an attempt to persuade you, and instead save it to use in the decision point, because you can guarantee the outcome of a decision point.
That would indeed be pretty fucky, so it's a good thing it's not legal. At no point is getting a resolve boost from an intimacy presented as optional.

>>52371379

A pirate could be really any kind of exalt. Hell you could have a literal Exigent of Pirates if you want.

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>>52371488
Right, sure. Anybody can be a pirate, that's fine. But what's the best one?

An Abyssal whose entire necrotech ship functions as part of his death metal band which, along with him and his artifact guitar, calls about awful storms and causes shipwrecks to rise out of the water as a dread fleet?

And Infenral who's strapped a "ship" onto the back of an behemoth?

An Lunar with her tribe of aquatic beastmen who swim to target ships silently and board in the dead of night?

>>52371379
Solars are axiomatically the best. No discussion required.

>>52371572
House Peleps are basically pirates against anyone not part of the Realm.

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>>52371641
How far West does their reach extend? How likely is it a run in with them would result in a run in with a Wyld Hunt down the line?

>>52343000
I've been way too busy for tabletops lately, and completely missed 3E coming out. Is Dreaming Pearl Courtesan still a thing? I remember that being fun.

>>52371748
It is, but it is not and never was a Sidereal martial art.

>>52371759
Nah, I know that, but I figured I'd ask about it with the first MA question I saw. Nice to hear either way, thanks.

>>52371705
The right answer to this is 'not enough' if you are a peleps

>>52371705
Don't know about their reach, but If you get into fights with members of a great house, you're gonna get some wyld hunts looking for you.

>>52371705
I guess Wujian is the outermost place they can effectively reach, everything else will overstretch thir supply lines

>>52343109
Mortal Martial Arts
> You punch the man with form and grace.
Terrestrial Martial Arts
> You fire/water/earth/air/wood punch the man and they go flying through a wall.
Celestial Martial Arts
> You punch the man so perfectly that the heavens weep for the beauty of it as the man flies over the horizon.
Sidereal Martial Arts
> You punch the man so hard that he is a duck. He has always been a duck. Quack.

>>52371572
>An Abyssal whose entire necrotech ship functions as part of his death metal band which, along with him and his artifact guitar, calls about awful storms and causes shipwrecks to rise out of the water as a dread fleet?

metal seems too fun for an abyssal, are you sure he wouldn't rather write incredibly shitty poetry about beautifully drowning and leave musical ships to the infernals too?

>>52374310
So the last one is you punch a duck?

>>52374310
Then you make duck your familiar and elevate it to godhood. Because Sidereals.

>>52361883
There is no average. Literally.

A Solar is either into feats of strength, in which case he can do pretty absolute bullshit, or not, in which case he is as good as a mortal.

Your "average" Solar, I guess, is one who has taken only one or two feat of strength charms. He isn't average by any mean. Those charms are already extremely powerful and allow him to do what the extremely vast majority of other Solars can't.

In pure number, the "average" Solar won't have any feat of strength charms whatsoever, so the "average" Solar is as good as any mortal in weight lifting.

If you want to know what a Solar with only basic feat of strength charm can lift, that's a whole another question, which has nothing to do with "average".

>>52371572
Why would an exalt of those tiers be a pirate? Piracy is a commercial enterprise, I don't really see any of the celestial-tier exalts continuing a career of piracy after being given the power to tear down nations.

"Pirate" feels like a backstory for a Celestial Exalt, not a career. Same as merchant or mercenary or gladiator or entertainer.

Wasn't there a charm that allowed you to Feat of Strength with your anima supplementing you?

I simply can't find it. Was it 2e or leak?

Are lunar limitbreaks always scene length? I feel like "curse of the unquestioning hound" would be good except short bursts of irrational loyalty doesn't have sufficiently short term effects to ever matter outside extremely rare tailor made situations

>>52374818
in the west everything is pirates, part of why i find it somewhat boring
>>52374953
iirc lunars have one, it's where that picture of ripping a bear in half came from, but i can't think of the name off hand

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Got my book that I didn't even pay for. Threw it on my shelf with the plastic wrap still intact. Nice huge pseudo-canvas map too. Gonna use it as a placemat for hotpots.

>>52376616

You could probably sell the map and people would buy it.

>>52377283

I like the quality of map artwork but I also hate how exalted world looks.

>>52377283
>>52377376
I don't want to encourage people to play Exalted.

I want to discourage it.

>>52377699
>wanting revenge on a roleplaying game

>>52377699
>I am extremely angry about things that don't necessarily warrant it.

>>52374818

They could be going full Madame Ching and using pirates as their nation tearing tool.

In a prior thread I read about 3e homebrews for dragonblooded and infernals. Does anyone have a link?

I´m thinking of picking my campaign building back up, even if I never play it with someone.

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>>52377699
I-It's not fair! WHY IS IT STILL IN THE TOP TEN? WHY IS IT AHEAD OF THE REST OF OPP???

REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>52377776
Ok, that sounds better. I guess you can take almost anything and make it work as long as you add King/Queen/supposedly gender neutral Prince onto the end of it.

Pirate Queen. Mercenary Prince. Gladiator King.

Yeah, that works. Not sure about entertainer, though, unless you count Mirror Flag.

Well guess I shouldn't haved post before going to bed
>>52366484
You mean the game in general or craft?
>>52367003
Mostly mundane stuff so far because we've really just started, but two artifacts have been made and one is in progress right now.

>>52377731
>>52377763
>>52377851
>being this butthurt about someone acknowledging they don't want people playing a game
What are you, GURPS players?

Is Exalted the new GURPS? A game so shitty it's a meme about shitty games?

>>52379364
Incredulous amusement about someone actually wanting to actively discourage people from playing a game does not exactly count as being mad, anon.

>>52361883

There's no real middle ground, if you paid the buy-in for the feat of strength charmtree you can punch mountains in half and if you didn't you're not really much better than a mortal.

I admit, I'm torn. I want Exalted to succeed, because I like Exalted, and want more stuff.

I want Exalted to fail, because I don't like shitty way OP treated its backers, and want some negative reinforcement on their behaviour.

My best scenario is that the DB Kickstarter flops hard, but sells well enough on DTRPG to continue the line.

>>52380818
The Exalted Kickstarter seems to have been the exception with how OPP has treated its backers, based on their more recent Kickstarters they learned a lot of Exalted's failures.

>>52380818

What do you think of the rumors of Holden and Morke stepping down?

>>52380845
Yeah, but their Kickstarters before that were different, too. Honestly, the worst part of the kickstarter for me was the policy of silence, which was apparently demanded by the devs - none of which worked on the subsequent lines kickstarted - so it's yet to be determined whether they've changed their ways. Their attitude to Exalted backers even now isn't great - Rich has said he won't read the comments any more, because they're too negative.

>>52380881
I think it's probably a good thing. I think they did good things with some of the core crunch, but they're dicks, sabotage themselves with their poor attitude, and failed to kill some of the more egregious sacred cows. We got the best out of them, now kick them out before they poison the line. Vance's work has show he's got the charm-writing chops, which is the majority of the mechanical work now - there's only splat-specific mechanics left now (resonance, paradox, astrology, etc) so hopefully new devs are systemically-minded enough to pull them off without breaking stuff.

>>52381030
>and failed to kill some of the more egregious sacred cows

new to exalted. What exactly do you think they should have removed but stayed in the game?

>>52381412
bonus point/xp split. It's easily remedied and often simply houseruled, but is a hold-on from 1e

>>52381625
Meh, not a big deal. The split has advantages and disadvantages. It was totally fucked in 2e because the numbers were wrong (5 XP to get WP 10 versus 2000 XP or whatever), but with functioning 3e numbers it's not really a problem.

>>52381412

That, natural language charms, multiple craft abilities, dex as godstat, no change in ability/attributes, despite stuff like stamina and resistance being basically the same thing, sail being niche, and integrity bring passive and boring.

>>52381951

The numbers are still wrong. You can create a character which has twice as much effective XP as another, if you know the "right way" to build a character. This is inevitable - it's not mathematically possible to have flat BP costs and exponential XP costs without distortion.

It's still mathematically optimal to build an autistic hyper-specialist at charge, and diversify with XP, which is counter to what midday people seem to expect/want, which is a system that encourages well-roundedness.

>>52382027

Charge/chargen
midday/most

Fucking mobile

>>52382027
Effective XP doesn't really mean anything though. If everyone's racing to get 5s in every stat as fast as possible then sure, I guess that matters then, but most character concepts aren't "all-around perfect being" so whatever. Regardless, yes the split is going to make some builds more XP-efficient than others, but that's the whole point of it. It's supposed to incentivise some things over others. Whether they chose to incentivise the right things is something you can debate, but I don't see it as a problem that Exalts are encouraged to take 5s in the things they're trying to be good at.

>>52381958
>multiple craft abilities
At least they changed it in the degree of the ST can decide how many crafts there are, as opposed to the what, fifteen canon ones in 2e?

>>52382178

>I don't see it as a problem that Exalts are encouraged to take 5s in the things they're trying to be good at.

They should've hard set abilities at 3 and removed ability minimums on charms. At least that way there's some sort of fucking growth progression.

>>52382178

It doesn't make a difference if everyone is clued in and builds the "right" sort of characters. But I've seen it be an issue in play, when one person started with a "realistic" 3/3/3 spread of physical attributes, and another with a 5/3/1 split. The specialist bought up to 5/3/3 before the generalist could afford his first extra dot.

If there's to be a "right" and "wrong" way to build characters, it should be explicitly stated in the chargen rules, not limited to those who know how to math out progression in advance, or read forums.

>>52382411
But there shouldn't be growth progression. The whole point of supernals is that Solars are the best in the world bar none at their schtick from the moment they Exalt.

>>52381625
>bonus point/xp split. It's easily remedied and often simply houseruled
How do you houserule it? I've never heard of anyone doing that.

Also, you make it sound like there's a difference between remedying it and houseruling it. I'm probably being dense, but I don't get what you mean.

Regarding BP/XP split, what's a good amount of XP to use for chargen? 450? 500?

>>52382503

Firstly, that's wrong. They don't know all the charms in their supernal the moment they exalt. Even the chargen rules don't describe a solar at the moment of his Exaltation, just one who hasn't been Exalted long. The thing about Solars is that their supernal makes them a very big threat very quickly, which is why the Realm wants to kill them young.

Secondly, the mechanics don't just encourage you to specialise in your supernal, they encourage you to specialise in everything.

>>52382505

The easiest way is to use BP costs after chargen as well, and hand out about 2 each session, instead of 5xp.

You can "remedy" it without houseruling it , if you explain optimal character builds to everyone before chargen, and make sure they don't make any egregious mistakes.

>>52382505
I let people build their characters as normal without worrying about XP, then see how much everyone is worth, see who's worth the most, and give everyone else enough XP to equal the highest one, this is basically Solar XP but can't be spent on Charms of any type such as MA, Spells, or Evocations.

What's the range of the Wyld Hunt? How far away from the Realm would a fresh Exalt have to be to make avoiding the Hunt be tense but doable?

>>52383449
population is pretty thinly spread in creation. "tense but doable" is, doable basically anywhere, including on the blessed isle itself.

>>52383449
Depending on how loud the Solars are being the range can be pretty far, but keep in mind that they're not going to instantly pop up the second Solars start doing shit. It might be a few months, word travels slowly and armies travel slower.

>>52383012
So you're telling me that someone has to bite the bullet and create a heavily focused character so that everyone else can build the characters that they want to play AND have lots of expensive traits?

Hell, I'd still do it. I am a river to my people. My rules-adverse, whingeing, under-optimised, under-engaged, anti-maths, anti-fun people.

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>>52379394
I mean, your reaction is literally the dumbest possible reaction to someone being honest.

Except maybe to vomit feces at them, I suppose.

>>52380818
>I want Exalted to fail, because I don't like shitty way OP treated its backers, and want some negative reinforcement on their behaviour.
They were banned from the OPP forums for a while. At this point I think Rich recognizes they're more damaging than helpful especially since OPP is about to be competing with White Wolf for eyes/players.

>>52380845
>based on their more recent Kickstarters they learned a lot of Exalted's failures.
Eh. There was the Beast debacle and the Scion kickstarter is currently slip sliding away.

>>52380881
Even if they do, they've already done some pretty serious and potentially permanent damage to the community. That's going to hurt OPP long term. If they game they had produced was genuinely a great game, it wouldn't be as big an issue. People will play great games even if the designer is Monte Cook. The problem is Exalted 3 is mediocre and my bet is it will only get worse as they start trying to expand the gameline.

>>52381030
>I think they did good things with some of the core crunch
Like what? Ripping off Dissidia's combat engine wholesale? Designing a Charm framework that ensures nobody knows what a Charm does without looking it up (natural fucking language)?

>they're dicks, sabotage themselves with their poor attitude
Yeah they're both shitty human beings and while that's normally not an issue, they worked so damn hard to make sure everyone knew it. Fuck them, specifically.

>and failed to kill some of the more egregious sacred cows.
I'm pretty sure they only stuck with it because so many people told them so many times that doing it that way was so fucking stupid that they couldn't help themselves. "I'm the greatest and best game designer in history, I can make this work!" - Holden, probably

>>52382663
We used 500 and it was fine. Fairly close for most builds based on a bit of napkin work.

>>52384249
lol, cool trolling m80

>>52384334
Ok, Holden

>>52384432
yep, you got me, I was Holden all along

dunno how you saw through my cunning disguise

>>52380818
negative reinforcement means their behavior is discouraged because it's meaningless. like when you ignore a barking dog. backlash from something is still a reaction and therefore positive reinforcement. the action has significance. consequences, results, good or bad doesn't matter.

you're positively reinforcing that bad things happen when you treat backers that way

>>52380881
it'd be good for them to at least shift out of the spotlight a little(they'd do better behind the scenes), and vance seems like an alright choice(which was part of the rumor)

>>52384249
>Like what? Ripping off Dissidia's combat engine wholesale?

Uh, yes? I don't care if it was original, I care if it worked better than previous editions. And Dissidia was a computer game, so it's not like the conversion was effortless.

Combat, the social system, Sorcerous Motes, shaping rituals, and Sorcerous Workings are all things 3E has done right, IMO.

It's done plenty.of things wrong, too, which I enumerated in other posts. Saying that's it's all brilliant or all shit is equally retarded. It has some good and some bad points.

Does Harmonious Presence Meditation's reduced cost for "social influence charms" apply to Black Claw Style?

>>52385986
Martial arts only excludes combat abilities, so I don't see why not.

>#2 Yes, we do know how concerned you are about the Exalted 3rd release schedule, and we are too. As I noted late last year or early in January, we are working on a new plan for a couple of our lines, and a couple of specific books, and EX3 is at the top of the list for serious changes to how we’ve been doing things up until now. I also know that actions and delivery speak loader than words, and you will be seeing things actually happen in the next couple of weeks.

>>52386673
I get the feeling it probably mostly amounts to them finally getting fed up with the devs and becoming more heavy handed. Hard deadlines and the like most likely.

>>52387061

>Hard deadlines and the like most likely.

Return to the shitpile that 2e mutated into.

>>52387163
I doubt they're eager to return to that either, so I'm guessing if it is implemented they'll be pretty liberal with them. Who knows, maybe its something else.

>>52387061
When is Onyx Path going to realize they only have the resources to make games that are two out of very crunchy, balanced, and released on a reasonable schedule, and that they need to drop the first one instead of the second or third?

>>52387404
How can ones opinions be so wrong.

>>52381958
>sail being niche
I don't think I'll ever understand why this is considered a valid complaint. There is no reason whatsoever every Ability should be as broadly useful. Every Ability should just be useful in the campaign where they're relevant. Sail being only useful if the campaign involves sailing - sailing on the ocean, on a river, on an airship or whatever - seems like a complete non issue to me. I agree with your other complaints, though.

>>52387163
>Return to the shitpile that 2e mutated into.
Deadlines don't inevitably lead to any game becoming a shitpile. Unreasonable deadlines do, or a combination of deadlines, shitty freelance writers and a lack of proper oversight.

>>52387163

There is a middle ground between "unrealistic deadlines" and "no deadlines". It's a middle ground the vast majority of us work with, day to day.

>>52388437
Yeah, which I feel OPP is gonna over correct into or John and Holden will interpret having deadlines at all as unrealistic deadlines.

The answer to "oh fuck this book took 4 years to come out" isn't "let's force out 4 books a year to catch up!" it's stop giving the fucking devs infinite time to write, scrap, rewrite, scrap, rewrite, entire systems. Sure we might not ever get that "perfect" system but I'm pretty sure the first 3 weren't travesties.

>>52388106

Expanding the Eclipse's caste abilities made this less egregious. But if an ability is unused, it's a waste of space. It should be folded into another ability that is more general - like the way disguises are folded into Larceny, or Performance encompasses everything from oratory to puppetry.

Personally, I don't think there should be a sail ability - you should use Presence to command the crew, Lore to navigate, and Athletics to climb the rigging. More likely, you have different people doing it each. Having the whole Circle involved in running the ship is more interesting in a ship-based campaign, anyway.

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>>52382178
Any system that is broken will be misused eventually. Any system must be resilient, and not fundamentally, mathematically wrong. You cannot, and should not, bet on a gentleman agreement to not break the system.

Hey, I'm new to Exalted, how many dice do you need?

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>>52390066
At least 20 for each players.

Bring buckets.

>>52390066
Ever played Shadowrun?
Twice that many.

>>52388793
That's a really good idea, but what about charms for sailing? Would they be scattered across multiple abilities?

>>52390066
>Hey, I'm new to Exalted, how many dice do you need?

No lies I bring 50

I've never rolled all 50 but I've been past 30.

>>52390743

Depends on the charm. A bunch of the sail charms are just grab-bags of effects from other abilities anyway: Salty Dog Method (Athletics, Integrity, Survival), Shipwreck Surviving Stamina (Survival), Fathoms-Fed Spirit (Integrity), etc. They can just go to their proper homes.

Most of the others are naval-combat related, and could probably make a naval sub-tree in War.

>Eminent Paragon Approach

Wut.

Wut.

What's the point of this charm? I honestly find none.

>>52391291
>Eminent Paragon Approach

>What is the point of being able to prove beyond doubt that you are trustworthy when you say you believe in a cause

>>52390066
all of them. exalted replaces the fun of dnd using all those funky dice with the fun of literally dumping a bucket on the table

>>52390066
I guess /technically/ you can just roll the same dice over and over and only need one. but comeon

>>52390743
>>52388106

it'd make more sense to spread sail over the ability checks it's already pretending not to use and split up larceny or performance. all of it's charms are actually from somewhere else and just stuck into sail. or collapse archery/thrown and melee/brawl. exalted shoehorned things into 5 solar castes with 5 abilities each which makes the split really weird when you compare abilities.

they also did strange things like put cross-splat charms into eclipse because dnd bards(by fluff they should have gone to twilights if they went anywhere) and made twilights tanky because it was the only way to make battle-mage work and they wanted a wizard class.
>>52388496
the second.

>>52391698
or just poorly thought out stuff like "lets give dawns all weapon types because they're the best fighters" leading to "zenith or night make better fighters because you only really carry one weapon"

>>52391452
There's no mechanical benefit to it. It is functionally equivalent to simply saying "I believe in this cause". People can still not believe you, or act like they don't believe you.

If the intent behind this charm was to force people to acknowledge that you believe in a cause, the wording is the worst I have ever seen.

>>52384432
Are you the guy that wanted revenge on a roleplaying game upthread?

>>52385929
I'd still say it does much more good than bad though, at least to the point where it's actually worth playing in contrast to 1E, 2E, or whatever homebrew or heartbreaker.

>>52388793
>Personally, I don't think there should be a sail ability - you should use Presence to command the crew, Lore to navigate, and Athletics to climb the rigging. More likely, you have different people doing it each. Having the whole Circle involved in running the ship is more interesting in a ship-based campaign, anyway.
That's actually not a bad idea at all. Yeah, I could see that working.

what was the name of what one primordial who soul-pruned himself into a weapon to come back after the primordial war(first age) for revenge?

>>52392092
>It is functionally equivalent to simply saying "I believe in this cause"

No. That makes the witness aware that you CLAIM you're trying to advance the cause. That doesn't prove shit, you might just be "advancing" "the" "cause" in order to gain their trust so you can betray them later.

With EPA, they're aware you ARE advancing the cause.

>>52393200

Autochthon? That's kind of the gist of the Gunstar Autochthonia. In the vanilla setting, all the primordials bar Autochthon and Gaia were either killed or imprisoned.

>>52393235
Nah, there was one Primordial in 2E canon who got away to the Wyld, optimized himself for combat and then returned in an attempt to punish the gods and the Exalted for their rebellion.

>>52393226
And? Tell me only one situation where this can be genuinely, absolutely useful.

Either they want to believe you are here to help, or they don't. In both cases, magically proving that you are here to help won't influence their final attitude the slightest.

You just freed those slaves. You tell them you're here to free them. The rank and file are happy, but the community leader was secretly in league with the slavers, and don't want the newfound freedom. He accuse you of having ulterior motives.

But wait! You magically assure them that you are here to free them.

The rank and file believe you, and the community leader... well, he believes you, but he still accuses you of having ulterior motives. That's how it works. Nothing has changed at all.

This charm has no mechanical benefit, and only the slightest of in-story benefit. It shouldn't exist. It isn't a social charm. It isn't a fluff charm. It is a blight, a pustule, an abortion.

>>52393656
You are aware that this is a setting where the dominant religion of the world demonizes you and tries to handwave any heroic act you accomplish as being part of an ulterior motive?

Do you still not see the use when that is factored in?

>>52390066
Technically speaking you could get away with 1, just rolling it over and over. It would take ages though. Try 10-15 and just reoll dice when you get pools above that.

If players sucessfully ambush and kill Madame Marthesine, just what sort of stuff should they be able to extract from her bag?

>>52392236
Are you the idiot spoiling for a fight?

MY FELLOW ANONS, I HAVE FINALLY RECEIVED MY DELUXE COPY OF EXALTED 3E. THERE IS STILL HOPE LEFT IN MAN.

So what's this about "natural language" everyone's been complaining about?

>>52397775
Only 3.5 years late

>>52397817
I'll give it a shot
Basically the charms, and a lot of the book, have fluff talk mixed in with mechanics talk. There's people who think this is the worst and makes the whole game obtuse to read, and people who think its fine since there would still be mechanical confusion no matter how they phrased things. Regardless I don't think its any sort of terrible issue or anything but its there.

>>52397817
The deadliest Solars use this legendary stealth technique to evade discovery. When in a place of concealment, the Exalt may use this Charm to anchor the thread of her Essence to the spot. Should she relinquish her commitment to the Charm, so long as she is within three range bands of her hiding place, she is carried there instantly on wings of anima. She does not travel the space between. This counts as an automatically successful Stealth attempt. After the Solar flashes back to her anchor point, others may not attempt to detect her for two rounds.

vs

Trigger: Any time while in hiding.

Effect: Mark that location. If you end this Charm while within three range bands of it, move directly to that spot. You automatically re-enter hiding, as per your previous roll; all attempts to detect you within the next two rounds automatically fail.

>>52392304

I agree, but that wasn't the question.

>>52374519
Nobody said Abyssals can't have fun, or, more importantly, be fun to play.

>>52397900
I think charms should include both, and since they publish online just say 'screw the word count pruning'

>>52397900

One is flavorful and fun the read, the other is a dry boring example of why DnD 4e failed.

Thank god the developers didn't listen to the natural language shills.

>>52393656
>Nothing has changed at all.
Except the rank and file slaves not only believe you, but think the community leader has lost his marbles disputing something that they all know in their heart of hearts to be true.
I agree that there is not much mechanical meat to the charm, but it is very much usable.

>>52397900
The mechanical example is wrong when the second Stealth is not as per the previous roll but an automatic sucess

>>52398538

They should. It'd be more like:

"The deadliest Solars use this legendary stealth technique to evade discovery. By anchoring a thread of Essence in a place of concealment, they can flash back their on an instant, borne by wings of anima, and hidden by the essence of shadows."

Trigger: Any time while in hiding.

Effect: Mark that location. If you end this Charm while within three range bands of it, move directly to that spot. You automatically re-enter hiding; all attempts to detect you within the next two rounds automatically fail.

Although it's not a great example, because it's fairly straightforward. The problem is with stuff like "What does Mind Manse Meditation actually do? Does it instantly solve a mystery, or does it let accelerate your thinking by (Essence) * 6? If the latter, what mechanical benefits does that entail?"

Or Foe-Vaulting method - does it grant an extra attack, or does it turn your attack into a surprise attack?

>>52398941
Personally, pare down the fluff to just an entry for each skill, to give you an idea of what exactly Solar Melee or Solar Presence means relative to another Exalt's Melee or Presence. I don't really think you need extended fluff on every ability. Exalted really doesn't need mandatory fluff when it also has the stunt system.

Regardless, I think we're all registering that it's unnecessarily hard to tell what a given charm does at a glance. Between dice tricks, unclear rules, overly fluffy descriptions, and of course the charm names. Do you remember what Divine Mantle does just from the name? What about Supreme Celestial Focus? Would you be able to guess which skills those came from if you didn't already know?

>>52399649
Who doesn't remember Divine Mantle just from the name? It's one of the most recognisable and memorable charms in the book.

>>52399846
It is pretty known, I'm a filthy dawn player and I know what it does

>>52399846
>Divine Mantle
Just read it, wtf why are other people getting the eclipse power.

>>52399878
Meh, the Eclipse power is oathbinding. Charmshare was never an interesting or thematically appropriate power for them anyway.

>>52399878
Because Integrity was boring, so they filled it with overpowered shit from other trees to make it "fun", instead of manning up, and changing the ability list for a new edition.

>>52399878
Thats...not even close to the eclipse power, what are you talking about?

>>52399878

IIRC, every caste has an anima power that can be replicated to a lesser extent by a charm. Dawn intimidation is in Presence, Eclipse charm share is in Integrity, Night caste banner tricks are in Stealth, etc.

>>52399973

core page 177

The Eclipse represents all the subtle movements of Essence under Heaven, the strange and self-referencing powers that stir when night merges with day. Eclipses can learn the Charms of spirits, Fair Folk and similar supernatural beings which have the Eclipse keyword for eight experience points each.

>>52400005
I know. I still don't see how they're similar.
One is certain supernatural creatures can teach you they're charms, only a select few, mostly as a sign of good faith and to help with the whole breaching the gap and bringing people together thing
The other is forcibly taking the powers, any of them, of a god specifically as a sign of how you embody a specific principle
I honestly don't see how you could call those the same thing.

>>52399978

Except that Divine Mantle is not "lesser" than the Eclipse charm share, since it can take charms that don't have the Eclipse keyword. Because the crack was really good the night the devs wrote that charm.

>>52399978
>Eclipse charm share
Is actually in Occult. The Integrity version is better.

Here's the Occult version.

Gloaming Eye Understanding
Cost: 3m per Charm; Mins: Occult 5, Essence 3
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Stackable
Duration: Indefinite
Prerequisite Charms: Dark-Minder’s Observances
The Solar channels her Essence into a perfect medium.
At the center of day and night, she may be taught up to
(Essence) spirit Charms that are applicable to the Eclipse
anima power. She need not pay experience points to learn
these Charms; she maintains the power to perform such
magic as long as she keeps motes committed to the effect.
Releasing these motes causes knowledge of the Charm to
fade. In order to learn these Charms, the Exalt must meet
the trait requirements for the Charm, but does not need
to have learned the Charm’s prerequisites.


This version is also better than the Eclipse version if you don't care about your mote pool or you went Supernal Occult and are using motes that aren't yours to power all your Indefinite charms. I mean, either Spirit-Drawing Oculus gives you motes that don't count against your mote cap or it's profoundly underwhelming for an Essence 5 charm. It gives you like 10 limited motes when the Integrity version gives you 20 and also resets all your 1/day triggers. (Oh, hey, another thing Integrity does better.)

>>52400500
You can only get 1 charm per 6 charms you own, and each charm HAS to be one that relates to a defining principle you have. The eclipse can walk up to a storm mother and say 'hey can you teach me how to do cool whether stuff' someone with divine mantle cannot.

>>52400816
Which, in the situation where players don't plan their characters, and just organically acquire charms in play, is really cool. I don't think I've ever played a game like that.

More problematic is when players look for awesome charms they'd like, and customize their character specifically so they can acquire them. The 6 charms/Defining Intimacy creates a constraint, but not a particularly difficult one to work around.

Besides, the most likely area for exploitation is combat charms, and having "Defining: KILL TEH STUFF" is hardly unknown. Nor is having a stack of charms revolving around the stabbing to meet the other half of the requirement.

>>52400971
>I don't think I've ever played a game like that.
Then the problem lies with your players not with the system
>The 6 charms/Defining Intimacy creates a constraint, but not a particularly difficult one to work around.
Are you serious? Something your character would literally die for plus at least 48 experience worth of charms, all of which the ST has to agree match up with the principle in question isn't difficult?
That example isn't particularly helpful for a couple of reasons. For one there are hardly any spirit charms that are going to be worth it when you can just buy more solar charms and get probably a stronger affect, and what's more a defining principle of war/combat is super great is going to cause major problems. Remember intimacies aren't just things you can slap on and ignore, you gain limit every time you try and go against once. That and thats what -3 resolve against social stuff?

>>52401133
>Then the problem lies with your players not with the system

You can't just hand-wave every problem with the system as being problem players. The whole point of a system is to constrain players by giving them rules. Otherwise, just play free-form. If the rules don't provide a useful framework for informing the players of what is and is not possible, then the rules suck. A charm that says "you can do this" but implies (but don't ever do this, because then you'll be a bad player and it'll be all your fault) is counterproductive.

>Are you serious? Something your character would literally die for

One-fifth of all Solars are innately focussed around Being The Best At Killing People. Having at least one defining principle tied to martial excellence isn't just reasonable, it's practically a foregone conclusion.

> plus at least 48 experience worth of charms

Or one-third of your char-gen's worth, all of which have value in and of themselves, and not just as pre-requisites to the spirit charm you're gunning for.

>>52401311
Thats a matter of degrees. I mean every set of rules is written under the assumption that players aren't going to go out of there way to abuse the system, and the human being running the rules can take care of things when it does happen. You're right in that rules are there to provide rules and guidelines and so on but that doesn't mean that everything you can do is something the system is supposed to do
>One-fifth of all Solars are innately focussed around Being The Best At Killing People. Having at least one defining principle tied to martial excellence isn't just reasonable, it's practically a foregone conclusion.
Well, only kinda. And thats where the actual mechanics of the charm help out. A dawn might have a principle about defending the weak for instance, which limits associated charms to things like the defend other ones or similar, and he might end up getting charms from the god of protection or someone similar. Thats both cool and thematic and works well. But its unlikely that any serious character is going to have a principle of 'I have to win every fight' both because thats too broad for a principle and also because what spirit would you charm steal from with something like that?

>>52400971
Yeah but that's the point. You actually gotta build into it. The eclipse can take charms from anywhere he wants anytime he wants. Divine mantle can get you charms from like one particular god but you can't just pick one, not without building up a new defining principle and then seeing if you have charms that match and then buying more if you dont

>>52398363
they kinda did

>>52401503
>Thats a matter of degrees. I mean every set of rules is written under the assumption that players aren't going to go out of there way to abuse the system, and the human being running the rules can take care of things when it does happen. You're right in that rules are there to provide rules and guidelines and so on but that doesn't mean that everything you can do is something the system is supposed to do

The thing that most frustrates me is that there is already an explicit mechanism for dealing with this - the Eclipse keyword - which was added to game after observing the crapfest in 2E that resulted from letting Eclipses take every charm in the game in combination. THEY SOLVED THIS PROBLEM. And then they went and wrote a Charm that specifically UNSOLVED it.

>>52401503
>But its unlikely that any serious character is going to have a principle of 'I have to win every fight' both because thats too broad for a principle and also because what spirit would you charm steal from with something like that?

"Prove myself the best swordsman in the land" is a pretty common motivation (if blank, IMO) if you look around at the characters people create. It's also not without thematic backing, being a staple of a plenty of martial arts/samurai shows. That principle, along with a bunch of melee charms, would qualify you for any charm that works in concert with a sword - like Octavian's for multiplying your withering damage by extra successes, for instance.

But the whole charm is premised on the fact that it *IS* possible to come up with a defining intimacy and 6 supporting charms - otherwise this one is completely useless. So obviously, the intent is for people to be able to meet those pre-reqs.

The problem isn't that some guy will be able to run off and buy a bunch of spirit charms about fighting, That's fine. The problem is that, for the rest of the edition, every charm ever written will have to be checked against ever other charm ever written to ensure there's no degenerate combo.

Of course, that won't happen - it's far too labor intensive. Instead, sooner or later charms will come out that, alone or in combination, trivialise other Solar charms, or break the game when used by a PC. And there's no reason why this had to be inevitable, when all they had to do was slap "subject to the Eclipse-OK keyword" like they did everywhere else they did charmshare.

What use would an Integrity supernal serve?

>>52402092

Beings able to waltz right through the most mind bending bullshit the Labyrinth and the Wyld have to offer and not have it phase you.

>>52402092

Doing nothing, and not having anyone be able to force you to stop.

>>52402092
>>52402141
Or weird ass first age places that got all fucked up. Think the mystic equivalent to chyenoble. Also generally being able to tell people who want to make you do stuff to fuck off.

>>52402141

Or you could just grab Integrity Protecting Prana at E1 with no pre-reqs to get that, and spend your Supernal on something useful.

>>52402009
Do you mean motivation like in 2e? Thats gone, and again the book says stuff thats uber broad like 'prove I'm the best' the ST should be vetoing. But lets roll with it and see what it gets us in terms of charms. You listed octavian, but he's a demon, divine mantle says gods only. So what god works for that? It's not really the god of swords because this is about skill and worth, not the object. Not really the various gods of war/combat because again this isn't just about fighting its about people knowing youre the best. That's not even getting into the harier parts of the charm, namely if anyone ever beats him in a sword fight those charms are gone until he proves himself again.

What abilities use which attributes?

>>52402092
Being the most mythically self-righteous, insufferable piece of shit possible

>>52402283
For....what?

>>52402289
Is there a list of what abilities are associated with what attributes? I'm trying to decide on a secondary focus, and I want to see what fits.

>>52402262
>Do you mean motivation like in 2e? Thats gone

No, I mean motivation as in the English word "motivation", as in "what motivates your character", which would be a prime source to derive intimacies from.

>You listed octavian, but he's a demon, divine mantle says gods only.
> learning the Charms of spirits
> take Charms from spirits
> take one spirit Charm for every six Solar Ability Charms
> match both the spirit’s nature
> The Storyteller can pick from published spirits
> The Exalt may take up the Charms of multiple different spirits
> perform the greater miracles of the spirit’s office
> which spirit Charms she is using,
> up and down the spirit’s Charm trees as needed
> Adding the Charms of a new spirit
> If a spirit recognizes the Lawgive
> the Lawgiver defeats the spirit in combat
> gain the powers of that spirit’s station
Pretty sure it's spirits

But you're really just supporting my thesis. If the requirements are so abstruse and hard to meet as you claim, the charm is broken. If the requirements are meetable, then the ability to exploit arbitrary spirit charms is there, and the charm is broken.

>>52402359
Abilities and attributes aren't intrinsically tied like that.

>>52402359

Abilities aren't matched to attributes on a 1:1 basis. Sometimes you might roll Athletics + Strength, sometimes you roll Athletics + Dexterity. Sometimes you roll War + Intelligence, sometimes you roll War + Charisma.

>>52402404
how about a list of common rolls in general then.

>>52399890
woulda worked for twilights though. before sorcery weren't they doing shit like reverse engineering other charms and making new solar ones?

>>52393200
Ramethus

>>52402390
If a player's character is motivated by proving their own strength without care to cunning or strategy then they can take octavion charms if they defeat him.

If they just want to prove themselves the best swordsman that's pretty significantly different from what octavion represents.

>>52402390
>Thus, the more strongly she embodies a certain Principle, the more charms she can take from the god in question
I get that the constant usage of spirit vs whatever the spirit actually is, but demons dont really embody...well anything really. Maybe x specific aspect of their third circle demon/yozi but I think its safe to say no one has principles about those. And elemental don't really represent anything except fire or air or whatever else.
I mean if thats how you feel you can just ban the charm from your games. I find it easier to believe they designed it this way specifically so that people trying to game their character to get this one persons charms can't but can get charms from spirits that naturally would fit.

>>52402398
>>52402404
>>52402479

Yeah, there's variation, but Sail is pretty much 100% Wits, while Larceny is split between Dexterity and Intelligence, for example. I'm building a Dawn Warrior, since it's my first time, but I should still be able to contribute out of combat. I don't have any overly strong feelings on the distribution of my mental and social right now (was leaning towards 3/3/3 and 2/3/2).

>>52402390
Aren't spirits totally different from demons in Exalted?

Fair Folk: weird things from outside of the universe
Primordials: A bunch of Fair Folk that decided to create the universe and also embodied themselves into it.
Gods & Spirits: A bunch of helper entities Primordials created to help run the universe.
Demons: The Primordials (and their subsouls) that resisted when the Gods rebelled against the Primordials. Also, slightly different from normal Primordials in that many Demons were horribly injured and changed during the war. So Primordials with PTSD basically.
Abyssals: The Primordials (and their subsouls) who actually died during the war but came back as zombies.
Ghosts: Other beings of creation that the Abyssals brought back from the dead.

>>52403438

Max out Dex for combat, it'll cover Archery, Brawl, Melee, Martial Arts, Thrown, Dexterity, and Athletics; Wits+Awareness will be needed for Join Battle. After that, it depends on what you want to do outside combat.

>>52404075

Nope. The Core book lists three types of spirits: Gods, Elementals and Demons.

And you're totally off on the Abyssal thing...

I want to make a character specifically designed to abuse Exegenesis of the Distilled Form. How would I go about doing this?

>>52404676

The best way to generate shitloads of Craft X is to simply make artefacts, and the best way to make them is to buy up the power tree. Sublime Transference allows you to convert one type of Craft XP to another.

>>52404907
The problem is, to take advantage of Exegenesis, I first need to create 5 Legendary Works, and I have no idea how I'm gonna get 200 successes on dificulty 5 extended rolls with only a Terminus of 6.

>>52404676

Well, you'll want Craft supernal, Exegesis of the Distilled Form and all it's prerequisites (most of which are useless), Supreme Masterwork Focus and all its repurchases, Flawless Handiwork Method and all repurchases, First Movement of the Demiurge, Divine Inspiration Technique and Holistic Miracle Understanding. All up, that's about 20 charms. Take high Resources and Contacts (Trade Network) to ensure a supply of raw materials.

Build an artifact with your Gold Points from Age Echoing Wisdom. Spam all your charms. You'll do it in one roll, and be rolling in extra XP from unused intervals. Spend it all to create as many artifacts simultaneously as you can afford. Spam charms. Repeat until 1/night Willpower becomes the limiting factor, and you have buckets of XP.

Build legendary artifacts. They require 200+ successes, so it might take you 2 or 3 intervals. Ouch. Then transform all your leftover SXP into XP.

By the time you hit E5, you might have earnt back your initial investment into craft, and be a well-balanced character.

>>52404992

With little to no difficulty. Seriously, buy up the power tree, it's insane.

>>52405044
>by the time you hit E5
Maybe there's a way to speed that up. Tell me, do you think a DBZ-style Hyperbolic Time Chamber might count as a Legendary Work?

>>52404992

Supreme Masterwork Focus x 3 = Double 7s
Flawless Handiwork Method = 10s explode
Flawless Handiwork Method = Reroll 6s
First Movement of the Demiurge = For each three of a kind success, change a failed die to a 10 (which explodes)
Divine Inspiration Technique = For every three successes, gain a non charm die. Recursively.
Holistic Miracle = If you get three success from Divine Inspiration Technique, get three more non charm dice
Unbroken Image Focus = Spend craft XP to get free successes, up to the total number of successful die (before doubling)

Craft roll emulator: http://howsfamily.net/Exalted/craft.html

You can easily hit 100 successes per interval.

>>52405167
Thanks for the emulator link, m8.

>>52404336
meh, he just accidentally said abyssal instead of neverborn. it's not quite right, but close enough to know what he meant

>>52403438
if it's anything at all like 2e then about your social split: take some points out of charisma/manipulation and put them into the other manipulation/charisma. and then make appearance higher than either of them.

>>52405167
Do keep in mind you need a bunch more gold/white points to active some of those charms.

> First off, I’m incredibly happy to announce that Eric Minton and Robert Vance have agreed to become the new developers for Exalted 3rd Edition. Eric and Robert have been all over EX3 in various capacities since writing began, and their involvement and love of Exalted goes further back than that.

Someone pick up that ringing phone as I FUCKING CALLED IT.

>>52405535

You get gobs of the things as soon as you start churning out artifacts in one roll.

>>52405625
>inb4 somehow ES and Aleph manage to worm their way into E3 dev team

>>52405625

Did he just announce new developers without actually stating the old ones had left? Heh.

>>52405683
They don't even get mentioned until the end of the post. It's great.

>Obviously, this whole message hasn’t delved into the nitty-gritty of what brought us here, and we really don’t intend to. Instead, we are celebrating a new team of creators, as well as the monumental work that John Morke and Holden Shearer were able to accomplish through some incredibly grueling times for them personally. What glories the future holds!

>>52405707

And this:
> Finally, our new devs will be making themselves regularly available on the Onyx Path Exalted forum, and will be releasing excerpts and development notes and text on a regular basis

So, the Monday Meeting notes are out again. Apparently Holden and Morke really will step down as devs and be replaced by Vance and Minton. Apparently Arms of the Chosen Advance PDF will be out in three months. Apparently there will be two smaller releases with NPC's, antagonists and various critters released before that. Something might actually happen with Exalted within our lifetimes.

>>52402763
thanks

The real question is, how long until we are constantly reminded by our fellow anons that Vance and Eric are liars?

Am I reading this shit right, /exg/? Did Holden and Morke just get fucking fired?

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>>52405728

Let's just hope they don't go full retard in the opposite direction and rush everything out.

>>52405783
Reminder: Holden and Morke are fired

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>>52405790
Yep.

Party time.

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>>52405790
>>52405858
Holden's twitter no longer mentions him being an Ex3 developer, nor does his RPG.net sig that I know used to.

>>52405848
I'm hopeful for the Realm and Dragon-Blooded books at least, becase they've been mostly written already and will only be releaed after Arms of the Chosen. They probably won't be rushed, and honestly they're the books I care the most about.

>>52405925
Exigents and Lunars after that, so let's see how that goes.

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>>52405880
It's been gone since at least the beginning of February.

>>52405655
Oh I know, Im just saying you need more than 60 for the rolls.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/15xddoahzedtkwu/Arms%20of%20the%20Chosen%20Preview.docx?dl=0

Arms of the Chosen excerpt

>Dissonant and Resonant: mechanics for who gets evocations from what material

>Stormcaller: 5 dot orichalcum reaper daiklave

>>52405848
This really needs to be beat into OPP, I'm fine with the devs taking some time to make sure we get quality product, don't rush 5 books out in a year just to make up for lost time.

What do you guys think about that excerpt from the Arms that was linked in the Monday Meeting notes? Stormcaller's Evocations seem pretty damn strong.

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>>52406000
Yeah. Three would be sufficient.

I kid, though I do hope they find a nice balance.

>>52406004
On the one hand, it looks really nice.

On the other hand, the AOE penalties and damage aren't very team-friendly.

>>52406034
Honestly if they stuck to their original pledge of one splat book + one side book a year I'd be happy. Sure it'll take a while but I'm pretty sure we'd get quality content and that's more than enough to keep the game line alive.

I'm very scared they're gonna over correct and bring us back to the Bad Old Days of 2e with shit just flying off the printer with no time to actually create good content.

>>52406004

Yeah. Especially compared to Martial Arts, which are it's rough equivalent.

>>52406051

The AoE damage can be prevented with the second Evocation, and Solars ignore penalties trivially anyway.

>>52406071
I think a big limiting factor for Evocations, at least for Solars, is there is no Supernal for it. You can be a Kung-Fu master at Essence 1, having all the most bullshit MA Charms at your disposal. Evocations are hard capped by Essence, no workarounds. So from a balance perspective they know that Essence 5 means Essence 5 for their effects.

>>52406004
I'm awaiting the flood of asspain from the fact that Dragon-Blooded are only Resonant with Jade and Dissonant with everything else, when it was previously stated that they were going to be damn near the equals of Solars when it came to Evocations.

>>52406167

There is that. Although, you can make unblockable decisive attack with a free melee excellency without learning any evocations at all with this weapon.

>>52406187
Well Jade comprises almost half of all magical materials and they're Resonant with it so they're on par Evocation wise with half of the Materials compared to Solars. Now Solars have better innate Charm force multipliers but Artifact wise they'll be on equal footing a good bit of the time.

>>52405625
So are john and holden gone? I'd actually be kinda sad if that was the case. Also a bit worried. I mean even if they basically have no idea how to run a project they at least write good.

>>52406208
An unblockable decisive attack with damage based upon Intensity which will be moving up very slowly without the later Evocations, which is then split between all enemies withing the range band. It can get crazy sure, but I wouldn't be shaking in my boots for a while fighting it.

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>>52406222
Goooooooooooooone.

Gone gone gone gone gone.

>>52406222
They've shown themselves to be pretty vindictive and immature, if they didn't step down willingly I can't imagine what shit they could pull.