MTG Modern General

Thoughts about Gideon AoZ in W/B tokens?
Or Elspeth as a high-mana payoff?

I play Ponza!

>>52329121

I don't even play fish you assdevestated retard. Burn is quite literally count to 20. That's all it does. Sometimes bolting a goyf or thalia isn't something that needs to be factored into describing the deck.

Fish has to at least interact to win some matchups.

>>52329237
Can we start the thread off without your autism please?

I'm going to build owling mine because it's always appealed to me. A touch of red for runeflare trap.
What I need to do is stand up to a non-top-tier burn/aggro deck.
This isn't for something super competitive, and there's no real meta, it's just a little event next month that's most likely going to be run only with friends.

>>52329213
Not big on Elspeth personally. Like her -3 is real good in this meta, probably the best it has been in a while, but regardless
>6 mana
I think Gideon is pretty solid in the deck. I would suggest running him desu, maybe 1 or 2 to test, but I think you'd be happy with him.

>>52329144
>What do you guys think of the meta?
Pretty good at the moment, DSJ is just a flavor of the month meme deck and as such will fade away. Blue and Control overall could use a bit of help though, unbanning Preordain, JTMS and maybe Stoneforge doesn't seem that format breaking when there are far more degenerate things you can be doing.

>What deck are you currently playing?
Affinity, Abzan CoCo

>Does any deck interest you currently?
I'm getting into Eldrazi & Taxes, would really appreciate any anon who was experience with the deck

>What is your favorite kind of playstyle?
Either synergistic decks like the one's I'm playing (with an extra coating of synergy in Affinity's case) or straight up good old Blue based control which is dead in this format

>Do you like the new mechanic from Amonkhet?
No. It's just a meme take on Flashback. Straight up Flashback would have been better.

>>52329246
Mono blue really doesn't have great answers to burn and aggro unfortunately. I legitimately can't think of any cards you'd actually want to play in blue to deal with that.

>>52329244
No.

>>52329286
aetherspouts? good turn 5 (unless I miss a land drop, the deck will shit draw)

>>52329144
What do you guys think of the meta?
>Don't play enough to comment but I have fun
What deck are you currently playing?
Skred walkers, forest belcher
Does any deck interest you currently?
R/B control
What is your favorite kind of playstyle?
Non-U control, land destruction
Do you like the new mechanic from Amonkhet?
JUST

Do I build esper or UW control? Esper charm seems sick but getting to run 4 mainboard spreading seas sounds insanely strong

>>52329246
Dragon's claw and spellskite

>>52329331
>Turn 5
>vs Burn and Aggro

Try running Sun Droplet or Master of Waves or something

>>52329264
Correct me if I'm wrong but he definitely meant one of the 4 mana elspeths.

>>52329414
>Master of Waves
ace in the hole right there
love protection

>>52329431
Well I figured he meant bigspeth cause he said a high mana payoff

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>>52329431
I meant big elspeth.
I don't have a list made and I don't know how often that B/W tokens even gets to 6 mana, but her abilities all seem to fit in well with the deck. Should you miss your bitterblossoms or they get removed or something, having a token generator that shits out 3 1/1s a turn seems good to me, especially if you're out of lingering souls and whatnot. I haven't played it yet though, I'm still brewing.

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Just to clarify, since the judge thread is really slow

this can hit uncounterable spells, right?

>>52329859
Yep

>>52329859
Socratic answer: Does it say, "Counter target spell"?

Non- Socratic answer: yes, it can hit uncounterable spells.

>>52329352
>>What do you guys think of the meta?
Too much Eldrazi

>>52329683
She's too big for tokens imo. Gideon is solid as well as Sorin solemn visitor. His +1 and an intangible virtue add really fast clock to your lingering souls.

>>52329885
>>52329888

Thanks. I was 99% sure it can, but I had a long argument with someone about this and I actually had me doubting for a minute

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>1 mana 10/10s and 2 mana 7/8s
Is there literally any more of a meme format?

>>52330184
>pepe
>hating on the newest meme deck
Wew

>>52330184
You can meme any format, though

>Vintage: Shops: the Format
>Legacy turn 1 wins
>Standard kiddie pool
>EDH/Commander "Spirit of the format"

>>52330236
Vintage is more more mentor decks rn desu

>>52330236
Frontier; new-meme format

Pauper; magic for poorfags

>2HG
>Having friends to play with

>>52329144

>Couple new people join the group which mostly plays EDH
>They are interested in Modern
>My sub-optimal Naya Zoo destroys them
>Build a terrible but fun Dragon Tribal deck which is all about ramping into dragons
>That destroys them to

How do I make them better Magic players?

>>52330747
You don't.

It'll either end up in them hating you or stuff like
>hurr durr tryhard fag
going on later, happened to me.
If they won't want to learn on their own or even ask for advice, don't bother.

>>52329931

Why the hell do people always recommend solemn visitor over lord of innistrad? I mean, they do similar things, but i cant see how solemn visitor is ever ultimately better.

Sorin, solemn visitor
+1
>Puts you ahead further if you already have a strong board state
>Delaying the inevitable at best if you are behind
-2
>A 2/2 repeatable flyer isn't bad, but cmon, it cost 4 mana. And what are you going to do with it? Because it's dead as a blocker to every threat in the format, and if you want to attack with it, again, you'd best be ahead on board state.
Ult
>Creature based decks probably lose, starting next turn

Vs

Sorin, lord of innistrad
+1
>Infinitely repeatable blocker that gains you life, stalling a disadvantageous board state indefinitely until you can establish a presence other wise
-2
>Buff all your tokens forever, probably doubling your power on board
>Repeatable once the game swings in your favour, closing the game effectively
Ult
>Remove and grab their best stuff, ready to probably swing for lethal next turn.

>>52330813
To add to my post just build a casual but fun as shit deck to play with them.

I splice Desperate Ritual into Peer Through Depths with Electromancer/Baral on the table.

Do I pay 3 or 2 mana for splicing mentioned spells?

>>52331045

Ask gA, our friendly neighborhood judge.
>>52324079

>>52330840
I agree that lord of Innistrad is probably better in tokens but I play one sad Sorin in Abzan and it's pretty big game for a meme card

>>52331045
Electromancer does not reduce splice cost as it is an ability of the card

>>52331969
Except you're wrong.

>>52332020

>>52331969
>>52332070
he's right, it doesn't reduce splice costs. It will however reduce the new, higher cost of Peer Through Depths

>>52332070
The spell that you're splicing it onto is still a spell. The splice ability is not a spell, and will not be effected by electromancer's ability.
It'll be 3 mana.

which deck should I finish building, ur gifts storm or uw spirits?

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Why doesn't Grishoalbrand run this instead of Worldspine? Is it because Worldspine is a better Breach target if need be?

>>52332104
>>52332131
Read the rules again.

>Splice is an additional cost
>Rule 601.2f boils down to: CMC +Additional Costs - Reducuctions = total cost of the spell

Peer Through Depths + Spliced Desperate Ritual + 2 Goblin Electromancers = total cost of UR

>>52332333
That is exactly why.

>>52332333
How is Autochton an improvement in any way?

>>52332208
Storm

Spirits is strongest when it's Bant

>>52332480

Because 90% of the time you're Nourishing Shoaling it

>>52332352
That's exactly what I said, it doesn't reduce splice costs, it reduces the new higher cost of the spell.

If you splice Consuming Vortex (3U) onto Dance of Shadows (3BB) with two electromancers in play, the final cost is 4UBB
which is 2 less regardless of whether you spliced or not.

>>52332543
4 more life is not worth losing the effectiveness of Breaching it.

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>>52332543
>>52332333
i'd estimate that between a quarter and a third of my wins come by breaching wurm and out of those games extremely few would have been won with a single combat with a 9/14 trampler
The fact that worldspine lets you swing 15 trample two turns in a row makes it a reliable wincon whereas 9 damage will pretty much never kill an opponent on its own. You'll lose far more games to not being able to close with a breached autochthon than to gaining 4 less life with worldspine imho

Old player coming back to the game and I have 0 experience with any of the modern decks that are decent right now so I wanted to ask if there are any good Tier 1-2 maybe even 3 that are like gimmicky decks or combo decks.

>>52333011
Ad Nauseam and Scape/Titanshift. The most boring decks you can play.

>>52333011
Scapeshift, Grishoalbrand, Storm, Cheerios

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>>52333011

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how's my meme deck /modern/?

>why would you play this over BW processors?

there's really no reason I just wanted to brew something UB that was a little outside of the norm

>>52333124
t. 2012

Is RG land destruction supposed to be good against Death's Shadow? I keep seeing it everywhere and I'm starting to get fucking annoyed

>>52333265
Yes and no. If they land a fast threat you'll struggle to get it off the board, but DSJ only runs like 5 land that generate mana.

Who esper draw go here?

>>52333328
I'm on the receiving end of the land destruction
I think I'm just playing this deck poorly, it feels so awkward to me

>>52333011

Another question as the new player, is Modern Masters 2017 packs worth buying?

>>52333372
No

>>52333244
Do you have a more recent pic?

>>52330840

Sad Sorin is better when you're ahead of your opponent, when you're behind Lord of Innistrad is better. The question is: why play Lord of Innistrad over Knight-Errant, as Elspeth is better at recovering from a bad boardstate.

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>>52333402
This is the most recent as far as I'm aware. I have no idea exactly how up to date the decks are.

>>52333402
No, we should make one

>>52333420
How is Knight Errant better at recovering from anything? Lord of Innistrad fogs while gaining you life. And his ultimate basically wins the game.

>>52333433
>What is going on
>eternal command
>I've heard of this
>hulk footsteps

These should be switched

>>52333866
Then switch them. Hell, I'm not the anon who made it, make any changes you want.

>>52333866
hi i'm the anon who made it. you're right and i definitely need to rework the confusion-level branches

>>52333349
Right here senpai

There's nothing but control mirrors (jeskai, grixis, UW) so all my matches have been going to time

>>52333349
Sphinx's rev for 15 then Secure the Wastes for 11 reporting in

>>52330654
>there exists a format wherein magic is actually fun and interesting
>nobody plays it because it is too cheap

Pauper doesn't make sense

>>52334207
>>52334153
>tfw i haven't played for 6 months and I still haven't picked up my foil copies of fatal push yet

>>52334262
>Mono Blue Delver
>Fun and interesting
El Em Ay Oh

>>52330654
I actually play the poorest version of magic there is. Pauper is a tier above in terms of investment cost.

Its called stack, and everyone plays off the same deck, and shares a graveyard. Any card may be played facedown as a land, which taps for many of any color, and is all basic land types.

My stack is entirely composed of trash cards that my friends who have played magic for years gave to me. I have about 300 of them now with few repeats, and have payed literally nothing for them. I bring the stack with me in a cardboard box. It has become a staple of my backpack.

I also bought a bunch of sleaves, and i proxy cards to play real decks. My magic investment is literally about 6ish dollars at this point in time, which was just the sleeves.

Am i the poorest of poorfags?

>>52334366
You disgust me desu please kill yourself

>>52334351
>implying UB teachings isn't fun and interesting
>implying tortured existence isn't fun and interesting
>implying reality acid
baka

>>52334366
You're not even playing Magic at that point, bro. Why would you even do this?

>>52333197
its probably fine but it's not going to be good. Part of what makes eldrazi scary is that they can be powered out quickly. In Bant you can get TKS on turn 2, and Eldrazi tron can starting plopping down huge things quickly. UB Eldrazi forfeits both of those in favor of pretty much nothing. I guess you'd do slightly better against Ad Nauseam because you have discard and counters but it's bad outside of that. Strangler is probably going to be a 3 mana 3/2 most of the time since you don't have many exile outlets and gravehate doesn't need to be maindecked these days so those are pretty bad draws. You're even in blue and black and don't have any interesting eldrazi from those colors, if you're going to get wonky at least play Jeskai Eldrazi with Obligators bro

>>52333747

Her other +1 stabilizes you hard, and is way more profitable than Sorins -2 when we consider "bad boardstate" situation. Her ult is as game ending as Sorin's (thought you're way more likely to ult her rather than Sorin).

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>>52333328
>DSJ only runs like 5 land that generate mana
I know I shouldn't but I'm gonna

>>52334498
I don't think you're looking at the correct Elspeth.

>>52334421
I've played pauper before. Those decks aren't fun

>>52334539
They're gonna have lands by the time you cast this

>>52334428
He does proxy to play real decks. So long as the proxies are actually printed in color and he makes the effort to get the medium-res scans of the cards so you can see them across the table that puts him several steps above the effort I see from most players who bitch and moan about not having cards.

Generally, I treat pauper as a format motherfuckers get to play because their community is fucking massive and can support all the other formats and they're so bored they can explore niche formats like Pauper. It's funny to say, but Pauper is the format of kings - it implies you play in a big city where FNM fires whereas everyone else playing in the styx are having issues getting Standard to fire.

As far as I'm concerned he's doing it right - better than most of us. Getting the best of the game through proxies. I'm at the point where I'm actually hostile at towards the idea of giving Wizards money; I'm sorry my store has to suffer for it but it's a fucking shit company how they're doing things.

I think Stack magic is kinda horrible but at this point I'd play anything just to get to play Magic. But I think giving Wizards money is even more horrible by several degrees of magnitude.

FNM used to have at least 20 people and fill the store. The "regular" player-base was somewhere around 50 people. 100 different people show up for prereleases. Now FNM barely fires. People show up, hyped, gotta go home because there aren't even 5; week after week it was less and less and finally people just stopped showing up.

>>52333433

>duskmantle mindcrank

I always thought that was just an EDH meme

Obviously it isn't tier 1, but is it viable?

>>52334457
>Gravehate doesn't need to be main decked these days
I agree with most of what you said, But all my decks that run scooze went up a scooze main, and everything that hits graveyard went up a bit. Grave hate is real nice these days against DSJ

>>52334624
Yeah it's viable. It's a 2 card combo for 4 total mana that wins as soon as they take damage or mill a card. Well I guess 7 mana, but yeah it's still pretty decent.

>>52334643
That's fair, but scooze is a much better card than a relic, it's not really fair to compare the two

>>52334686
Shut the fuck up you fucking retarded piece of shit what the fuck is wrong with you? I'll fucking fight you I swear to Christ meet me anywhere I'll fucking destroy you.

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>>52334819
I'd like to see you try, netdecker

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Lmao
>yfw proxy fags have no memes cause they're autistic and no one likes them

>>52334608
Nigger, I wasn't talking about proxies (which I literally don't care about). I was talking about him not even playing by the game rules.

>300 card shared deck
>any card face down as a land with all basic land types

He is not actually playing Magic, but a bastardized house- ruled game using Magic cards.

>>52334539
By the time you can cast that, DSJ will probably already have 3 lands, and the deck can do fine off just 2.
Also, don't know where the guy is getting 5 from. There's 6 lands that produce mana in the deck, but godless shrine is largely inconsequential

>>52335117
Reprint dark ritual desu.

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>TKS enters
>trigger on the stack, enemy dismembers
>last card in his hand
>kills TKS, draws a card
>its his Ulamog
>mfw

>>52334819 new waverly tx I -45 chevron truck stop on exit 103 southbound/102 northbound

Ill fokin rek u cunt

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>>52335252
>little Texan from backwatersville trying to act big on the internet

You're so cute.

>>52335339
I'm not even from Texas I just stopped here to sleep after escaping houston

Fagnut

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>>52333433

>Esper Control
>RUG Delver
>Grixis Delver
>Grixis Control
>All right next to one another

These were among the primary deck builds I would look into going with if I ever got into Modern. How do they stack up in terms of cost, entertainment value and win rate?

>>52333372
Yes, for drafting tho, don't buy a box, you could get 300+$ in value, or just 100$

>>52335394
RUG delver is very expensive but it's my deckfu and I have had great success on and offline with it. Many lines of play and you don't really get cards like terminate or path so you have to budget counterspells and really think about how you're going to out tempo or bait your opponent. This also makes mistakes very punishing

Also moon and huntmaster out the board are beatings.

>>52334351
>Teachings
>U/UR Delver
>UB Delver
>Tron
>Affinity
>Various flavors of UR Control
>Burn/Alchemist decks
>Kuldotha Boros/Jeskai
>Mono Black Control
>Mono Green
>Bogles
>Tortured. Fucking. Existance.

Pauper a great

>tfw beat eldrazi tron with fucking Jeskai tron
>not running anything bigger than a drowner of hope
>double obligator
>deepfathom skulker in the main
>nahiri in the main
>literal fucking jank
>guy so scared of getting assfucked he takes deflecting palms over reality smashers
>running deflecting palms in the first place
feels good man

whats the best color combination for zombie tribal jank? u/b, g/b, or mono black?

>>52335766
I think GB is better if you want to go lotleth troll vengevine
mono b might be the best actually, but its still jank

>>52335538
Sounds like you're retarded

>>52335814
lick my nuts you fucking donkey

>>52334366
Dude that's actually a legit way to play this game, I'll try it. Thanks.

>>52335766
G/B with a blue splash for Diregraf Captain

>>52335766
It's BG so you can play Abrupt Decay and recur Vengevines with your Gravecrawlers.

Fuck Diregraf Captain.

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>>52336099
>>52335874
>>52335800
>>52335766

>>Zobie Tribal
>Implying we all don't want that deck to be at least playable
>tfw it literally never will be
Please based Amonkhet

>>52335800
>>52336099

i dont know. vengevine seems like too much trouble to get through for not that big of a pay off. i was thinking about running 2 of traitor kalitas. besides lotleth troll there isn't much in the two drop slot for zombies.

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>>52329144
I am going to build/play a mardu aristocrats deck in modern, if it doesn't pan out i will switch it up into mardu mentor. Is good idea yeah?

>>52329246
I have an Owling Mine deck. Against Burn you're pretty much fucked. Creature aggro you have Exhaustion, Vapor Snag and Cryptic Command, Hurkyl's against affinity to help you, but burn is too efficient and getting them to draw cards turns out to be a really bad idea.
If you're a lunatic you can play Nourishing Shoal/Autochthon Wurm against burn, but that's 8 sideboard slots so it's a really risky play.

Here's my current list, sometimes I like to play 4x Snapcaster Mage, but it depends how the meta is going and whether I want to play creatureless or not.

>>52336423
lolno

>>52336439
for why?

>>52336445
it's not good and neither is mardu mentor

why does grixis shadow suck so much?
why is thoughtscour the shittiest card to run in a deck?
why is grixis cemented into running thoughtscour all the time?
can grixis be built without a thoughtscour base and not suck dick?

>>52336464
>it's not good and neither is mardu mentor
yeah but WHY?
k command, crackling doom, fatal push, lightning bolt, path, rakdos charm, slaughter games, tragic slip, dismember, boros charm....
whats not good here? am i missing something?

>>52336523
Why do you think Jund and Abzan exist? Of the good cards you listed, between the two of those decks, they all see play, except if you're in green you get better utility creatures and you get to play tarmogoyfs, and you also get to play abrupt decay to keep your ass from getting blown out by the occasional chalice
That's the problem with mardu, it doesn't have good early pressure cards like goyf. Path and push and bolt are great, but you're better off running two of the three and goyf than trying to jam all three in a deck. also mentor is bad
>so I'll build a mardu control deck
and then you're basically at boros nahiri control

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>tfw casting ricochet trap on your opponents ancestral visions and they concede immediately

>>52336523
>am i missing something
Threats and answers to things that are not creatures

>>52336572
>>52336709
yeah but turning slightly above average creatures sideways is boring tho

i want one big blow out turn

>>52336747
So play Ad Nauseam

>>52336754
i don't want to play solitaire either

>>52336747
What big turn is fucking Mardu going to get you?
>playing a deck full of removal is fun
You clearly don't want advice so whatever

>>52336509
Put how will I get my turn2 banamans without spending my mana on delve fuel?

>>52336889
rally the ancestors for aristocrats

and mentor is just control in colors i like and i cant afford grixis lands

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>>52336601
>Casting Ricochet Trap off a Simian Spirit Guide while tapped out on an opponent's Remand/Mana Leak

Living End just lets you do some of the most horrible shit to people with the worst cards imaginable. Losing to a Brindle Boar or Slaughter Games just doesn't feel right. Yeah I just played Sorcery Terror (Shriekmaw) on your fucking Wasteland Strangler what do you have to say about that?

They know you only play like <19 land yet you cast Fulminator into Avalanche Riders and Living End next turn when the Riders dies and Stone Rain them another two times.

>>52336953
>Living End just lets you do some of the most horrible shit to people with the worst cards imaginable.
This is why I love the deck. Such beautiful jank

>>52334428
It is real magic, in every way except deck building, and land usage.

The land usage portion of it is also not much of a concern, since well made decks don't find themselves resource starved unless they get exceptionally fucking unlucky.

>>52334608
I have access to some really nice printers at my job, so i'm the guy who wastes the expensive ink.

>>52335856
If you own cards, you can take your favorites and toss them into it. Also certain cards become much better, or much worse.

Multicolor spells become way better, example Cromat is easy as hell to play and his abilities are all essentially pay 2 mana.

Creatures like Harvester of souls, and delvers which interact with the graveyard become way stronger.

Unearth and similar effects are kinda gimped since your opponents can bring them back from the graveyard as well.

The best though is cards like fact or fiction. Whenever i use it, I will make an offer to the worst player at the table. If they give me all 5 cards, i wont use them against them.

>>52337022
Not relevant and sounds awful

>>52337004
Killing a Thalia with Shriekmaw is probably the dirtiest thing I've ever done with Living End. They think they're so safe.

It's pretty much Rules Lawyer: The Deck. You play Ingot Chewer on a Relic, you stack the sac/Shatter trigger so if they blow the Relic the Chewer still goes to the yard. Or they blow the Relic in response to your Living End and you throw a couple Street Wraiths and other shit into the yard.

No wait, I got it, I killed a guy once through playing a bad mono-white deck through a resolved Rest in Peace using cast Spirit Guides and Fulminators. Fuck that was dirty killing someone with Grey Ogres.

You can TERROR Eldrazi AND get past them with fucking Fear on Shriekmaw. Guess what, your shit is neither Black OR an Artifact. Yeah, I'm going to Shriekmaw your "protection from all colored SPELLS" Emrakul fuck you. Shriekmaw isn't even good. Neither is Avalanche Riders or Ricochet Trap. But I'm not here to edge out Burn, I'm here to ruin all the non-metagame decks.

Anybody who thinks Living End is not the funnest deck in Modern is objectively wrong.

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>>52337252
>most fun deck in modern
>doesn't include Karn

>>52337463
>tron
>""""""""""""""""fun""""""""""""""""
sure thing bucko

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I got a playmat in a trade today, we valued it at $25, what's this SCG Open playmat worth? There are some signatures if that adds or subtracts value

>>52337536
Oh fuck off already

>>52337536
bruh its just a giant mousepad

>>52337560
Kay, thanks for feedback.
I wasn't trying to shitpost or derail, I'm legitimately curious of the value.

>>52337521
There is no greater joy in life than seeing the look of dismay on your opponents face when you drop a Karn on turn 3.

>>52337463
Do you seriously believe that Sol-Landing out a Planeswalker or Wurmcoil is more fun than beating people with complete garbage; cards that for the most part aren't even playable in Limited?

Nobody actually thinks Tron is fun; that includes Tron players. In all seriousness, anybody who thinks Tron is fun for anybody is either new to the game/format or not worth listening to.

>>52337630
No, seeing a second turn 2 glistener elf kill that ends the round in 4 minutes was the greatest joy known to man
Especially when it's a 12 year old with a full foil Jund deck

>>52337612
Fucking nothing, it's a playmat

>>52337681
In my LGS people buy and sell playmats all the time, so I figured it was a common practice, sorry.

>>52337630
Ghost Quartering a Tower and Surgical Extracting it

Has anyone tried jamming one or two Vesuva in Eldrazi Tron? I feel like they'd be decent since you can run them as extra towers or temples
Just spitballing thoughts, I didn't really think about it

>>52337737
>not having your own surgical to respond to their surgical and failing to find
What kind of pleb tron players have you been playing against?

>>52337709
it is, that guy is just literally autistic

it's worth whatever you want it to be besides its market price. if those signatures are anyone notable they can add value to those who give a shit

>>52337252
Dude, you need to chill out. Living End is THAT good.

>>52337709
Valuing accessories and signed shit is just a sign that this game has gone off the deep end. That's not a jab at you, just throwing out an opinion. The fact that signatures can just get pawned off for value is the dumbest shit on the planet and it's just sad that it's common.

I've been in peoples' houses and seen piles of dozens of playmats. What is the fucking point if you never are going to use them all in a lifetime. It's like having an excess of cups.

Celebrity worship is the worst and in Magic it is grossly misplaced. The person who got this mat signed, did they genuinely enjoy the content and contributions of every person who signed that playmat? Or did they get them just for "the value". The signature should just be a personal expression for appreciation and now it's just a dollar bill.

On some level I feel like the people with half-naked anime girls on their sleeves/playmats are more real than the people who absolutely need to squeeze value out of every transaction and interaction in this game. With that creepy shit at least I know it represents them; the people who're just putting a price tag on every part of this game are negatively impacting the community and culture.

That's just me. That's why I don't go to GPs anymore with the people at my store. Every fucking step of the trip they're going on and on about value, pinching every penny, cheaping out on food and FUN, and why? So they travel for a day just so they can haggle and sell cards with the dealers and other players. Skipping fucking dinner or just outright needing to sell cards otherwise they can't afford the bus fare back home. Not coming for lunch so they can stand in line for some artist's fucking signature - just so they can sell and trade the cards for added value back home.

inb4 you sound like an unpleasant person and nobody wants you at the GPs anyways

>>52338080
my tl;dr is fuck wizards for making this more about profit than fun
am i wrong?

Do I play Esper midrange (with Narset and that jazz) or do I get Death's Shadow and Liliana, Last Hope and play Esper shadow instead?

>>52338080
Nah, I feel you, I'm still a college student and my budget for the game is pretty tight, I love it but I find myself going in the mentality of pinching pennies to play more and it's annoying.
Actually, I was wanting to put some money into a long-term goal of a legacy deck, which is why I'm curious to the value of the playmat.

>>52338171
Why? Why does it have to be esper?

>>52338124
The community is directly at fault for it all going to shit because of human nature and all that crap. But Wizards actions or inaction regulate not only the economy but the community. They are responsible for the state it's in. It is their godawful reprint policy that drives people to moneygrub over cards and as a secondary effect it spills over to everything else in the game.

You are not wrong.

>>52338200
because Flooded Strands and Polluted Deltas are the only fetches I own

>>52336935
if you can't afford ally colored shard manabase then you definitely can't afford an enemy wedge manabase

>>52338080
>inb4 you sound like an unpleasant person and nobody wants you at the GPs anyways

You sound like an unpleasant person and nobody wants you at the GPs anyways.

>>52338257
>if you can't afford ally colored shard manabase then you definitely can't afford an enemy wedge manabase

I already own most of it from standard is the thing.

>>52338199
Like I said, it's not on you. Everyone needs to hustle something to get ahead in this life at some point or another or just to keep afloat. You cut corners, save a bit, deny yourself some pleasures in life, invest here or there, make some risks, all to better yourself or your future.

I just think it's fucking disgusting that everything about this game has become a hustle in some way or another.

>>52338207
>It is their godawful reprint policy that drives people to moneygrub over cards and as a secondary effect it spills over to everything else in the game.
This is always going to be a huge problem as long as magic is a serious competitive game and it's ridiculous that nobody sees it like this, and the fact that it's all run on a lottery makes it even worse.
The mtg card market reminds me of those fucking anarcho-capitalist meme balls. Its a great case study against an unregulated free market

>>52338334
I agree with ya, I wasn't trying to be come off as defensive if I did.
But I agree, if I could play without any thought of monetary value, it would be a much better game, in my opinion

>>52338419
I've heard that's why there's so many miracles players in legacy, not because it's so much better than other decks, but because it's good and people can't shell out that much money, so they just go with the safest option
Fucking absurd for a competitive game, even if it is a card game

>>52338221
All 10 fetches are currently the cheapest they're going to be for a while. MM17 ones might dip a tiny bit more, but right now anyone who doesn't have playsets of their favorite colors should definitely look into picking them up.

>>52338491
I could see that, it seems like an incredibly practical decision, other than a large percentage of players, there's nothing ban-worthy about Miracles, it's a fair deck and doesn't annoy WotC like Storm does

>>52338339
Because regulation and economics is figuratively magic to most people. It's mostly magic to me but I do have first-year econ and it's enough to understand why the fuck everything goes off the rails. Anti-consumer practices and corporate exploitation is just an area of knowledge that has no real estate in most brains; most people are probably not aware that every time they browse a webpage someone is making money off their browsing data. Everyone knows that somewhere out there, there's some innocuous bullshit happening in the background, but nobody actually has the knowledge to be aware of it.

I don't enjoy it, looking everywhere and seeing nearly every way people and myself are getting incrementally fucked.

I felt that way for a couple years in Magic; I felt like every FNM or event where I didn't come away with a fresh trade or some new cards felt like a wasted night of my time. Then I realized that that feeling of success in wheeling and dealing was utterly dominating any feeling I had for the games I played that night. Then I started seeing how much downtime in this CCG was spent "collecting cards" and how it had parity with "card games"; nobody talks about lines of play anymore or reflects about the match only about what has gone up or down in price or this or that reprint.

It's scary. It's scary how everyone regurgitates Wizards' tired line of "market research" this or "Chronicles" that. The "Magic is dying" people were not wrong; they were never wrong; it can still be popular and widely played but dead in many other ways.

>>52336342
I don't. Tribal decks are meme tier shit.

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>>52338664
Eldrazi is the tits though.

>>52338656
>Anti-consumer practices
Right when you said this, modo popped into my head and I started grinding my damn teeth
Fucking Wizards man. I'm getting to the point where I'd rather see them fail completely so that card prices dive and people can play the game for fun

>>52338589
Could I play Grixis Delver without tarns?

How good is Grixis Delver at the moment

>>52338802
Very
Grixis delver is one of those decks that's always hovering near the bottom of tier 1 but never really quite makes it, despite being really good

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I love storm!

>>52338080
I actually have a huge collection of McDonald's cups so you can bite me.

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>>52338867
I like Bant Eldrazi.

>>52338715
I feel like there's going to be an entertaining show when it comes to their (new) online client.

MODO's audience comes from two sources: Hearthstone players who want something more and paper Magic; I believe Hearthstone actually nets Magic more players. Paper is fucking expensive but accessible; but MODO is less expensive but a broken piece of shit; new players want something both inexpensive and accessible; Magic provides neither; thus new players have no good reason to emigrate from Hearthstone.

Magic feeds itself through the generations; you get hooked on Magic not because you see it on the Internet but because your older siblings play it or your friends' older siblings play it; if there's a generation gap, you lose subsequent generations of Magic. There's no Pokemon or YGO show to feed Magic.

If Hearthstone takes some number of players and Magic gives players zero reason to immigrate from Hearthstone, Magic suddenly loses all the means to maintain its audience; and it will depreciate year after year. Paper Magic is banned in some schools; there is not a functional Magic client that works on phones; you can't just sit down and crank out a game of Magic in ten minutes like you can on Hearthstone.

Magic lost a generation of children in the 5+ years they've fucked the game since Jace the Walletslayer became a household name in Magic. They're going to lose another generation in the 3+ years it's going to take them to crank out a mobile and PC client that lets kids play in schools. On top of the fact that they're are actively erasing physically attractive women from the art.

They have lost or will lose at least 8 fucking years of diehard players. I don't care about the players who play and drop; they are losing the people who will infect the next generation of players.

Ignoring whatever the fuck Wizards does tomorrow, can the sheer complexity and history as a game allow it to pull up from this upcoming downturn in attendance?

Hey /tg/ I have BGW midrange built currently, should I sell it off to buy bant eldrazi?

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>>52338867
I enjoy Bant Spirits

>>52339007
>Ignoring whatever the fuck Wizards does tomorrow, can the sheer complexity and history as a game allow it to pull up from this upcoming downturn in attendance?
Magic will outlive Wizards for sure
The problem mostly comes from shitty business practices. I honestly think the game would be in a better place if Wizards didn't have to balance for drafts. I'd rather cards like Fatal Push weren't purposely printed at a higher rarity while being labeled at a lower one. There's no reason sets like Modern masters should be limited print run, but Wizards also realizes that people won't buy them because they contain mostly shit.
A lot of people say that it isn't Wizard's job to regulate the market, or that cards shouldn't be reprinted into oblivion to keep the price down. I think that's a fucking bullshit argument, and people are just pissed because they went into magic thinking that they would get money out when they want to quit, which, if you pick up a hobby, should be irrelevant. It's a fucking stupid decision NOT to do it anyway. Wizards dies when the game dies, and the game dies (to Wizards) when people stop buying packs, and stop showing up to GPs. Turns out, more people would probably show up to GPs or FNM if they could fucking afford to play the game in the first place.
If you call yourself a collector and you aren't collecting cards like the power 9, or misprints, or all alt-art versions of cards, or anything interesting that would qualify as a legitimate collection with some intrinsic value, and you're just a cunt sitting on a pile of foil Scalding Tarns, do us all a favor and suck start a fucking shotgun faggot

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>>52339063
I've been on Bant Eldrazi since last summer. It's pretty solid but can get stale after awhile. If you think it's good for your meta then by all means, build it. personally I feel like EldraziTron is overall better positioned, though.

>>52339121
I don't want to play BGX anymore because it's stale

>>52338822
How much would the manabase be if I had 4 deltas/bloodstained mires? I still need two more Snaps so I think I'd rather have the full playset and a worse manabase than only 2 snaps and a better mana base

>>52339121
What do you find are its worst matchups? I've been slowly building it, all I really need now are the Caverns.

>>52339183
wanna buy a foil cavern anon

>>52339121
I think Eldrazi Tron is better positioned against midrange than Bant is because it's about as fast and goes over those decks. I think Bant is probably better at dealing death's shadow though since it actually runs removal options, and, I'm just guessing, does better against that deck game 1 than a lot of other decks. Path plus EE, which can be found with stirrings seems pretty solid to me.
I've been jamming EldraziTron online for the past few weeks and the biggest problem with it is the mana. If you go for a turn 3 tron, you aren't doing dick for the first few turns. If you go for temples early on you're stuck on little mana for anything outside Eldrazi. If you get it working it's really strong, but I don't think it can easily beat affinity or DS.

>>52339183
I'd guess it has a problem with affinity but that's just a hunch

>>52339211
Not even a little bit. I'm such a kike I'm waiting to bite the bullet a couple months for the MM17s to drop down a few bucks.

>>52339212
I've never seen Affinity in my meta, ever.

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>>52339176
God help you
For real though, Bant Eldrazi is pretty much just midrange with most of your effects stapled to efficient creatures. Maybe try Death's Shadow Jund? It looks like it has plenty of interesting, unconventional lines of play.
>>52339183
In my experience storm and scapeshift are our only really bad matchups. Everything else is pretty close to 50/50, although I've found burn and affinity to be somewhat difficult.

>>52339242
>mfw I don't have hierarchs

kill me

>>52339300
want some?

>>52339315
b0ss pls

>>52339333
are you in the US

>>52339339
nah i'm from asia

is there any reason to play abzan over DSJ?

>>52339353
you woulda scored free hierarchs but im a lazy cunt that doesn't want to deal with customs fares
best of luck to you lad

>>52339357
if you don't think baubles are worth their price tag

>>52339357
If you want to play midrange, you're going to have to man up and take a tentacle or two in your ass

>>52339363
asia truly is the second worst continent to be in

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Which one is going to be the Celestial Colonade of the bunch?


>>52339300
Bought my first 3 for $13 a piece back during Zendikar/Scars blocks. Getting the 4th one last year was the best feeling. Still feels nice holding them.

>>52339363
I'm trying to build bant eldrazi and I'm refraining from because of the hierarchs

>>52339418
sold mine to buy goyfs before mm17 dropped

there is no god

>>52339418
quagmire and vents are pretty much it.

>>52339418
>Which one is going to be the Celestial Colonade of the bunch?
Quagmire probably since it can chump and take something with it, and only costs 3 to activate, plus it's in best colors

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>>52339418
U/G and W/B will be upwards of $25 each in the next 3 years. You can trust me, I'm from the future.

>>52339468
dies2bolt

but that's irrelevant now since bolt can't hit the best decks

probably B/W given that 9/10 manlands die to push

UG is just terribad

>>52339418
I think they all kinda suck but if it's going to be any of them it's going to be the last three.

The 2/2 will trade, the 3/3 is Fatal Push/Bolt/Path proof and the 2/3 gains life, which are all desirable properties in their respective control-like decks to value-grind. The first two do nothing.

Their bodies all fucking suck too hard so their abilities must compensate.

>>52339177
Its fine. I run the same thing you just need the right shocks and burn is little more annoying plus you might mill away your relevant lands if you're not careful but that rarely happens. (Hand full of flooded but need to fetch a crypt)

>>52339499
I don't think UG is actually that bad but it's in really bad colors. Spires is probably the worst of the lot. Fumarole seems hard to judge even though I've played it a lot in standard

>>52339418
Vent easily. theoretically quagmire is better but no no BG decks actually want it

fa/tg/uys do we have a modern trading thread going on here?

>>52339296
>For real though, Bant Eldrazi is pretty much just midrange with most of your effects stapled to efficient creatures. Maybe try Death's Shadow Jund? It looks like it has plenty of interesting, unconventional lines of play.


fuq anon those baubles cost almost as much as hierarchs xD i'll take a crack at it if baubles get a reprint

>>52339499
>dies to bolt

>UG hexproof manland not the best one
>unkillable monstrosity that can take over a game
>dodges path, bolt, push, something NONE of the other manlands can do
>activate in resp to opponents ghost quarters. if they save it in resp, activate it again
It rivals Monastary Mentor in terms of groundbreaking new Vintage tech

>>52339713

(You)

5 Color Walker Tron is my current deck. I like T4 comboing with it and Planar Bridge is my new tech for it, it's fun as he'll if only to see my opponent realize they don't have shit to play against it. Except of course Ponza, Merfolk, and Lantern Control, but that's regular make Tron Sad stuff anyways.

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>>52339506
does Grixis Delver run any cryptics?

and I see some lists run 2 Yung Peezy, how would Death's Shadow run in that slot without going full Grixis DS?

>>52339363
Uh, I'll take free hierarchs anon. I live in West Lafayette, IN, USA

>>52339697
You should have gotten them before the price spike.

>>52339684
I've been on /tg/ for over a year and never seen a trading thread.

It's WAY too easy to fuck people over on 4chan

>>52339418
Good tier:
>Shambles

Not unplayable tier:
>Lumbers and Hiss

It won't get played period tier:
>the ones with red in them

Can we all take a moment to appreciate the true victim of Fatal Push, Colonnade. Goodnight, sweet prince.

>if a deck can't support [speed tech] it's inherently shit
How would the format be different without CoCo, Aether Vial, mox opal, etc.?
Sometimes I wonder what the point of the Pod ban was if other options exist. Especially when they just print a "fixed" e.g. shity, version in Eldritch Evolution. Why bother?
With all the talk about Modern being too fast a format, why does WotC enable it?

It's got to be an all-or-nothing policy, and WotC has selected "all." How would things be different if they picked "none?"
>mox opal meme
Never happening.

>>52340281
>With all the talk about Modern being too fast a format, why does WotC enable it?
Because WOTC doesn't give a shit about Modern, outside of the group of bored interns who flit from r/mtg to mtgs to mtgtop8.

Hey guys, I'm about to buy a playset of Tarns and Mistys, and I'm wondering if should I pay the extra $25 to get the Zen ones or get the MM3 printing? ($330 vs $305)

>>52340435
Get the ZEN ones, old modern border is way classier.

>>52330236
Nah dude, you fucked up your memes. Here let me fix them:
>Vintage: White Tinker on a Stick that is also Tendrils
>Legacy: *spin Top in response*
>Standard: G I D E O N
>EDH/Commander: We banned Primeval Titan but Sol Ring is legal

I am thinking of getting into modern, I've played standard consistently since BFZ hit

Is UR Baral Storm a good deck to invest into?

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>>52329144
>What do you guys think of the meta?
its whatever

>What deck are you currently playing?
WX Thought-Knot Taxes

>Does any deck interest you currently?
See above

>What is your favorite kind of playstyle?
Disruptive threats

>Do you like the new mechanic from Amonkhet?
I like the Wrath that was tailor-made for Death & Taxes

>Post a brew or idea you have and I personally as OP will give suggestions or ideas that you won't care about.
I'm going to play Trinisphere somewhere in my 75. Hope u got 3 breh.

>>52340435
You're already spending 300$ in cardboard, if 30 more is a problem, chances are you shouldn't buy them at all
Go with the ZEN ones

>>52340650
yeah it's pretty good atm

WoTC fucking hates storm but they just banned Git Probe and released Baral at the nearly the same time so I think they're alright with where it's currently at

has eldritch evolution been "solved" in modern yet?

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>>52341030
yes, this is the best build possible

>>52341048
>Saheeli Cat instead of Kiki-Resto
>Saheeli at all

that actually seems pretty fucking smart

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>>52341048
>>52341066
scratch that, I actually replaced that Renegade Rallier with a kitchen finks to improve burn match up, pic related, won on 2 life

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>>52341109
i got REALLY good at making about two dozen deceiver exarchs on modo before i sold out.

post modo feelbads!

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>>52340492
>memeing about legacy
>not posting best version

>>52339862
There's some people who tested with 3 cryptic and more lands but the standard list doesn't. I've ran DS in YPs spot with some success and it's s better top deck bit yp tales over games. It depends on the match up

>>52339862
imo the ability to go wide with pyro is hard to replace. he's really good in midrange as it's hard to 1-for-1 him and creature matchups since they often can't remove him at all. bolt tks, block with elemental token is absolutely based.
on the other hand, shadow seems better against combo since it presents a faster clock that is easier to cast while holding up interaction mana, and your life total isn't as important

>>52341237
i don't get it
also shouldn't it have brainstorm and lotus petal instead of ponder and black lotus?

>>52340435

If you want to save money get the MM3 ones because the function of the card is the same. The only reason to pay for more is aesthetics. It's not like you can't upgrade into the old ZEN fetches later.

>>52341541
>he's really good in midrange
*in midrange matchups

>>52339418

Shambling Vent is already played in B/W Tokens and shows up along with Hissing Quagmire in Junk lists as sporadic 1-2 copies. They are also the cheapest activation costs. There's nothing playing mostly U/G that wants a 3/3 hexproof dude, Spires is in a colour that wants lands untapped to be aggressive most of the time(exception being Jeskai decks). Wandering Fumarole is arguably reasonable as a 1-2 of as an emergency finisher in the URx decks that may want another finisher.

>>52341048
I really see no reason for you not to have 1 kiki in the list. Maybe a couple more 3 drops to evolve into it easier.

>>52333433
Imma tell you now Enchantress isn't for people that like playing Enchantments. Enchantress is for people that want a 22 card boardstate when they move onto their wincon.

>>52342271
So Enchantress is for people that like to play a lot of enchantments, got it.

>>52337252
I proxied a Living End deck to playtest and i found it REALLY fun to pilot, so i'm thinking on buying the deck. Is it worth on the current meta?

>>52342593
No

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Why is the value of the good stuff from MM2017 all increasing?

>>52342683
more supply = more demand

>>52342717
That's not true at all you stupid faggot, Jesus.

>>52342799
its science

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>>52342829

>>52339418
I run fumerole as a 1 of in Grixis Delver. Makes for a great potential blocker that dissuades opponents from attacking if I have the mana up. And it's a superb attack on an empty board late game

Also why isn't vampire tribal a thing? Everything has lifelink, death touch, first strike, or flying. Superb mana curve with Good 3/4 drop lords. Can end up splashing obliterater or gray merchant cause it's pretty much mono black devotion. Can run urborg/ghost quarter to slow down other decks. Can main board fatalpush/thoughtseize/tragic slip

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>>52343028
>4 drop lords
>No ramp
Ebin

>Print more Goyfs
>Price goes up

: ^)

>>52343047

>More people get lured into modern by the promise of lowered entry price
>Start buying singles to get in
>Demand for staples goes up massively
>Price of #1 staple of the entire format goes up after declining slightly as the market notices that printing something at mythic in a limited release set does fuck-all to increase supply

Just as expected.

Every card kike worth his shekels knew this would happen

I mean, happened for MM2015 too

>>52343083

It's almost like this format is doomed.

>>52343100

Unless WC starts either putting actual reprints in standard sets or increases the print run of Modern Masters sets while also lowering the price of packs.

>>52343222
They don't even have to lower pack price, just print the ever- loving FUCK out of Masters sets.

>>52343254

I hope we can get to the point where WOTC finally has to admit Mythic rarity was a mistake

>>52343383
I don't think it's a mistake, exactly. Mythic rarity slot should just be reserved for cards that have complex (relatively) rules attached to them. Planeswaker cards for instance, should be Mythic only. An undercosted big dumb beater should not be.

>>52343039
What is Master of waves in merfolk. Use vial

>>52343429
No, it was a mistake because it artificially increases the cost of the cards printed at that rarity. Out of all the mythic cards that are valued highly, how many of them are actually that complex, and aren't just decent cards that are undercosted, or walkers?
Mythic was created to balance walkers in draft but walkers were a fucking mistake too. Besides, most cards that are relatively complex won't see competitive play anyway so who gives a shit

>>52343527
Well, WotC gives a shit because they make the game for casual/kitchen table players/ FNM. They don't make a competitive card game, they make a card game that happens to have competitions.

>>52343578
If you're playing casual why does rarity or cost matter to you in the first place? If I'm just dicking around with a few packs, it doesn't matter to me whether Goyf is mythic or rare. In fact, if he were rare, there's a better chance I can get one and use it
It boggles my mind how poorly wizards handles their shit. I've been saying it for years but they have to be taking a nice cut from CFB and SCG, otherwise they wouldn't go out of their way to fuck over customers this hard

Grixis Shadow doesn't really seem like a bad deck
It just looks like grixis delver with a bigger beater. Seems like it'd b easier to cast your delve guys too

>street wraith is 7 dollars
fuck off

I'm looking forward to this year's "state of game design" article so I can listen to Marky Mark bend over backwards trying to explain how the game being horrible is a good thing.

>>52333433

Dredge shouldn't really be under "I'm patient" with bant eldrazi, I'd think it should be under "pretty fast" or "sonic fast"

>>52343773
>ban cards because the meta is stagnant
>gets even worse

>>52343841
>Standard has been a dead format for coming up on 3 years

>"We're pretty happy with how Standard is going right now. : ^)

>>52343865
I honestly think they banned cards just because it had been 5 years and not because they really had a big problem with the format. Also to get more people to buy AER

>>52343918
They banned cards because their original shameless plan was
>"Print broken threats for Standard it'll rotate in a year"

Then they had to go back on their rotation plans, and suddenly Standard was going to be hot garbage for another full year. So they tried to band-aid it. The problem is that standard is so Answer-Thin that all it did was allow a bunch of other threats to take its placem

>>52344063
To be fair, I don't think anyone really though that Marvel or Copter would be as good as they were, and Gideon is a huge problem card that they don't seem to want to address. Turns out walkers were mistakes
They should have seen Heart coming though, that's on them and nobody else.

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Why do people put buy it now prices on ebay for more than you could get it off TCG player?

>>52344229
because they know they're not tcgplayer and if you want the same convenience you'll have to pay more for it

>>52344229
to prey on the uninformed

>>52344244
What convenience do you get on ebay and not tcg?

>>52344278
Maybe I phrased that wrong
I meant it as having the same convinience of being able to buy cards with a single click on ebay, like how it is on tcg
like it's very convenient to buy cards on TCG player and it's less convenient on ebay, so if you want that same convenience on ebay, you'll have to bay a little more
also >>52344267

>>52343100
Chinamen will save modern

>>52343028
It was a thing in 2012. They didn't make it. no green

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Why is Tarmogoyf allowed to be a card? It's blatantly overpowered and is an autoinclude in almost every green deck killing creature choice diversity. Why don't they just ban it and make modern slow and more accessible.

>>52343726
High prices means the format is healthy because people are willing to spend money on it.

>>52329859
Well technically, Counterspell can be thrown at an uncountable spell.

>>52329244
>Modern
>Sans autism
Lol

>>52344844
Goyf is a fair and balanced win condition, because yes, while it is very strong, you can also neuter it by killing graveyard. It has counterplay, which is more than you can say about Delver and Thing, which MUST be removed, and are in the anti-removal color.

>>52344938
>Delver MUST BE REMOVED
Lmao, I don't think Delver is even tier 2 anymore

>>52344844
If Goyf were to go, the next best threat would just take its place, then shoot up in price as everyone now needs 4 replacements. Modern would be just as accessible (or non- accessible, take your pick) as it is now.

>>52344974
Granted (Hooting Mandrills) exists, but at least it would only leave us with 2/3s that actually die to bolt.

>>52344974
>Next best threat
The thing is, there are lots of cards that are next best to goyf, there's not a single clear card that's as good. I'd like to see stuff other than goyf honestly. I mean really if goyf was out you'd see a lot more diversity in that slot.

>>52342593
Fuck yes it is. Crushes midrange and eldrazi decks. Plus has land destruction to won against big mana strats

>>52344974
The difference is the next goyf may not be as scarce as goyf is. Goyf is only valuable because it's from a vastly underprinted set and was reprinted as mythic in an even more vastly underprinted set. Not that I particularly care, since I don't like green all that much.

So what boxes does a brew need to check in order to be viable?

>>52345181
Win by T4-5, surviving common distruption.
If it has more than two bad matchups among Tier 1 decks, sit on the idea but don't bother taking it to FNM, unless you've got an abnormal scene.

>>52345181
>Do you have a strong, cohesive game plan?
>Can you reasonably play aggro and control depending on the matchup?
>Do you have a 50/50 matchup against Jund and Burn?
>Do you not auto- lose to Tron?
>Can you beat Affinity after sideboard?
>Do you not auto- lose to interaction?

>>52345023
Hooting is 4/4

>>52345302
>can you reasonably play control and aggro
This is only a test for midrange, really. Aggro shouldn't care about control, just having the ability to slap away any checks against their speed.

It's a critique of word choice.

>>52345049
Fuck off already
Zoo decks don't even want him. He's a midrange creature that only sees play in bgx and fringe tempo decks like rug delver
He's hardly stifling creature selection

>>52345312
Yep. But if it had toughness 3 it would die to bolt, unlike a goyf with no instants in graveyard.
I did forget that last critical clause in my first post. Excuse me. It's a real niche scenario, but I'm just not a fan of it existing.

>>52345348
That's why I said reasonably. I understand that some decks can't switch playstyles depending on the match. Some decks can a little, like Burn, and others like midrange decks can go 50- 50. "How do I brew" is a common question I get asked a lot, and I keep that question in there because it helps people think about different lines of play and interactions they might not have thought of. I keep this checklist handy, but I'll reword it.

>>52344938
>you can also neuter it by killing graveyard
yeah after game 1
that's also assuming you find your removal and even if you do you're essentially spending a turn dealing with a big grizzly bears
At least delver can be bolted and titi requires a bit of setup

>>52345436
These aren't, arguments you're just saying dumb shit

>>52345436
Bolt baby pls go

>>52345436
Hold up.
Do you not mainboard graveyard hate?
We're in a post-dredge world, but how did you survive that time?

>>52345570
he didn't, he just cried for bans like everyone else

>>52332862

Makes sense. Quality post

>>52345570
Cage

>>52345656
Alright, that's far and exactly what I should have expected. I ran Tormod's Crypt because Elves doesn't particularly care about the yard.

>>52345513
Think about it for a second though
If your only out to beating Goyf is to remove their yard, then you need to be running Crypt, Relic, Scooze, or Loaming Shaman. If you aren't in green or white, your options are Crypt and Relic. You could run leyline, but then you have to pray they you get it or have the ability to cast it. Most decks only run 2 at most of either of those cards, and so finding your outs to goyf even post board are pretty slim. If you mull specifically to find them, your giving up cards just to deal with their 2 mana beater
I'm not saying that you can't get rid of it via push, path, etc, but I'm saying that if you plan on dealing with goyf just by taking out their yard, you're going to be in for a rough time

>>52345819
Sure, but Delver/Thing can only be hit by removal. There's another, albeit questionable, way to hit goyf, that also hits Tasigur and other delve options. Hence, "counter play."
There's more to fish for than removal as a response.

>>52329144
I think the meta is in a really good place right now, and modern is a lot of fun. I run u/w control. Last night at my LGS I played against esper control, elves, and U/b mill. Every game was really close and interactive, I went 1-1-1 it was great.
>cast day's undoing against mill, go to time and draw

>>52344844
It's just a big threat for 2. Loses to gy hate, and can be easily removed. Doesn't have evasion, it's a great card that I think actually makes the format healthier.

>>52345887
That's fair, but Delver and Goyf aren't too similar. Goyf is big from the moment he drops, Delver has to wait a turn, and still has a clause he has to meet before he can get bigger, and at his biggest he's still much smaller than the average goyf. Sure you could attack the yard to deal with Goyf, but I just made the point that that's a kinda dumb plan. Despite having that extra little weakness, goyf puts on a lot more pressure than delver, starting from the moment it hits the field. Not to mention that goyf is probably immune to Bolts and the occasional anger of the gods because it's much beefier

>>52344844
t. Can't afford goyfs

>>52345994
I have 14 now, 1 playset of each faggot, minus only 2 mm2017 ones.

>>52346019
why?

Thoughts on Renegade Rallier? Would they be useful in Modern or just another junk card?

>>52346028
Because I collect mtg cards as well. But I would be perfectly fine with them being 30 dollars if it meant we actually had diversity in Modern.

>>52346019
Your shitty chinese goyfs don't count fag

>>52345819
What are you advocating for then? No creature should be good? Everything should die to bolt and have no secondary mechanics other than etb triggers?

Show me where the jund player touched you

>>52346039
Rallier is boss as fuck. Flexible card that can be abused for a number of strategies.

>>52346039
It already sees play in tier 2 decks, it's a good card. It's just that there are better decks than the ones that would use rallier

>>52346039
It sees play. Decent for getting certain creatures back, but not too crazy a card.

>>52346082
I'm not advocating for anything you dense fuck, I'm just making a fucking observation
Not everything is a fucking argument you cunt

>>52345984
You clearly don't know how to play this game

>>52346082
There's a difference between "no creature should be good" and "One creature should be miles better than literally other creature in the format. Seriously name 1 other creature as good as Goyf. Pro Tip: Snap doesn't count when the format has 0 good spells besides meme range.

new bread buckos

>>52346119

>>52346119

>>52346119

>>52346114
Modern general
>ban goyf
Fuck this place

>>52346114
Death's shadow

>>52342799
>I pulled this cavern
>might as well buy the other ones now

>>52345984
It's unfortunate that Tarkir block illuminated how incompetent WotC is at dealing with big creatures.
>siege rhino is fine because other colors have deathtouch they can run into it
>the arguably best deathtouch option, Heir of the Wilds, was green
>and was considered for getting +2/+2 from Ferocious

>>52344817
But now we have Kalitas and vampire light-hawk

>>52330184
What the literal fuck are you talking about. What is a meme format and how do big bodies for low costs relate?

>>52341237
>black lotus
>legacy

>>52346655
Kalitas is simply mainboard graveyard hate. Groundhawk does not add any new function to the deck.
Various problems remain unaddressed. Namely: how do you remove artfacts?

There are better options than attempting vampire tribal. It's very much at a Standard+ powerlevel, same as Warriors. You just get so many more options if you stop considering cards that receive the lord buff.

Build it if you want, but be aware that it's not good.