/STG/ - Star Trek General

>>52237351
Daily reminder that:

The UFP allows Star Fleet officers to kill people in cold blood and face no consequences.

The attitude that twins only count as 3/5 of a person is perfectly acceptable.

It's perfectly fine to abduct and experiment on sapient life forms if they aren't made of meat.

Technology is the only measure of a civilization that matters, if you fall beneath an arbiter threshold of technological capability you are not real people.

Notions of "Cosmic Plan" and "Destiny" are used when creating policy.

The rights, safety and lives of citizens even on a grand scale of the UFP are worth less than scientific curiosity and appeasing foreign aggressors.

>>52237472
When can we stop pretending that UFP isn't just a space soviet union?
When can we see the forced labor planets?

>>52237472
Yep. I don't get why people assume the UFP is an inherently good institution. It exists to self propagate. And that often requires acts of inhuman cruelty or beireaucratic dispassion.

Does that make the UFP evil? Not necessarily. The good certainly outweighs the bad. But the UFP is certainly an expansionist empire, just under a different name and using different methods.

>>52237773
Who needs forced labour when you can have holograms do the work for you?

>>52237863
It makes me wonder what would happen if the UFP integrated "evil" races such as Cardassians and Naussicans.

>>52237877
So that's why they have simulated feelings, it wouldn't feel even half as good if your slaves didn't feel like they were being enslaved.

>>52237888
It's why they even have humanoid bodies. As a projection onto a shaped force field they don't need to look like anything.

Either the UFP can't be bothered reprograming them or lacks the expertise to make it worth the effort.

The old Mk1 EMH program are doing the job that Data's daughter was destined for.

guys I've never watched Star Trek before but now everything's on Netflix so I started with TOS and watched the first two episodes yesterday

they're not bad but the pacing is too damn slow, both episodes (salt monster and teenage reality warper) stretched out for WAY too long and I dunno if I can handle 80 episodes of this

does it get better eventually?

>>52237950
Yes. It gets better but with the occasional bottomless pit of shit to jump over. Last season there is somewhat of a drop in overall quality but it's not too bad.

TNG is mostly good once you get past the abortion that was the first season.

I would recommend that you watch the films also in the order they are in the continuity. Kirk films after the last episode of TOS and Picard films after last episode of TNG.

>>52237950
It's more like a rollercoaster of good episodes and bad episodes as well as bad episodes so bad they are downright hilarious.
The next generation is a bit more consistent with the first two seasons being bad and the rest getting better.
DS9 is considered by most here the high point of the show, even though it is probably least trek of all the star treks (cast is mostly on a stationary space station instead of a ship trecking across the stars).
The latter two shows Voyager and Enterprise have few good episodes but tend to be pretty crappy over all.

Oh and the animated series is basically Star trek TOS 2 with the quality going around a bit again like with the original show.

>>52237863
I feel that you don't really understand Star Trek.

>>52237888
I always figured they started out fairly abstract. Like something that looks like an exosuit. But then some scientists decided to give them faces. Then a personality then so on, so forth. Not for any practical reason; just cause they can.

>>52238335
I understand that the crews are good, or at least try to be. But so much of TNG and DS9 was spent showing us that the UFP has a fairly tenuous grasp on individual rights. It's not an oppressive regime but it's certainly a disaffected bureaucracy. It often falls to individuals to fight for good within the system. Worf's step brother, Picard, Sisko. They have to fight for the Federation to see the error of its ways. And even then, a lot of good people just accept bad things.

>>52238335
A civilization of NEETs protected by a totally-not-military who spend all day finding new things to prod because fuck consequences and stroking their hypocritical enlightenment boners.

>>52238533
Some neophytes fucking about with the fabric of reality "for science"

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>>52237472
Nice bait bro, still not gonna take it.

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>>52239717
>5 nacelles

Trash tier, to be honest

>>52238533
And we're supposed to believe that the successor state to the USA doesn't have a robust culture of personal weapons ownership for sporting and self defense? I'd love to see that version of Star Tre/k/.
>"You can not invade Earth. There is a phaser behind every blade of grass." - some weeaboo Romulan
>civilian ships are heavily armed to repel pirates so the Nausicaans are extinct by Kirk's time
>none of the "colony in distress" episodes happen except the natural disaster ones
>The Maquis are pioneers and the cardies are Space Injuns
>DS9 becomes more obviously an Old West trade post and frontier fort
>this makes Chakotay's character extra silly

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http://sky.easypano.com/panoramic-images/USS-Carina-Bridge-90837.html

Well this is fun.

>>52240992
>Starship troopers but with technicolor pajamas

No thanks

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>>52241373
How about in EV suits?

>>52237980
Enterprise got pretty great in season 3 and 4.

>>52238335
Star Trek early on was about Roddenberry's weird concept of space communism and amazing fantasy. It got better when they started to address the ideas of different space empires butting heads

>>52240992
>>this makes Chakotay's character extra silly
Impossible

>>52240992
Does that mean that Voyager turns into F Troop? I'd have enjoyed it then.

Does /tg/ have hope for discovery? /tv/ doesn't but they hate everything. IMHO the cast is amazing so far.

>>52241656
We have hope in that we hope it will be good.

We expect it to be total dogshit.

Or that seems to be the prevailing noise.

>>52241724
I don't get the pessimism. Is it cause Fuller left? Big deal, he was just to set the stage. Cast is great, michelle yeoh i am really excited about

>>52241759
Because of the attitude that seems to be around its making in general. I think the ship itself sums it up best.

>What should we use for a ship?
How about this concept art from decades ago that was rejected for looking like shit?
>Yeah that's good enough.

>>52241656
I want to have hope for it, but aside from the cast, the leaks/reveals so far don't give much reason for that hope.
Some clarification/explanation about the things they've shown so far would be nice, if only to put an end to some of the retarded rumours going around.

>>52241656
>Does /tg/ have hope for discovery?

Discovery is DOA.

Casting aside, it's been fucked from the first. Not only have they set it in an era no one wanted to see, but in doing so they're setting themselves up to fail "lore checks" by faithful Trekkies much like ENT did. True to form, they've also gone overboard with SJW virtue signaling. That means we'll see message scripts that more resemble "After School Specials" than sci-fi.

Finally, CBS is using the series to launch their streaming service thus repeating the same mistake Paramount made when trying to use ENT to launch UPN. Not only will the series have to find it's audience, CBS wants it to lure viewers to other streaming series.

Discovery is already fucked.

>>52241826
>the ship
The worst part about this, in my opinion, is that we have somewhat reliable confirmation that the design has undergone some major changes, but they won't show the new design.
It's like they know that people are going to hate it but don't want to reveal it early enough to have time to change it again. So they're holding it back for a late reveal so when people shit on it they can just claim that it's too late to redo it again.

>>52241856
>they've also gone overboard with SJW virtue signaling
Haven't seen much/any of that since Fuller left. Makes me think that change was one of the better decisions they've made.

>>52241656

The cast is great; the people working behind the scenes- not so much.

>>52241365
Pretty cool, actually. Would like more of these.

>>52241656
Discovery sounds like it's running into a lot of the same problems that TNG did when it was in development. If CBS gives them a couple seasons to iron out the standard Trek growing pains then they'll be fine.

>>52241856
>SJW
Fuck off /tv/

>>52241656
I'm worried about it. There's been so many delays, setbacks and creative arguments that I'm afraid will get an incoherent crapshoot.

That being said, the cast is excellent and I genuinely want it to succeed. I don't want Star Trek to become an historic artifact.

>>52242520
>I don't want Star Trek to become an historic artifact
Of JJ Shit Trek

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>>52241724
Nailed it.

One of the things I heard recently (but have not been arsed to go find a source or confirm) is that the production was having trouble with the toys and collectables side of things because the producers were pushing for a very nu-trek look and apparently that sells fuck all in comparison to the old style stuff so they were not actually wanting to get in on making merchandise. And given how notoriously expensive the Star Trek licence is on top of production and distribution costs, well it's not hard to believe that there'd be a noticeable financial risk if the newer style stuff just doesn't sell well.

>>52242520
>I don't want Star Trek to become an historic artifact.
Me either. The world could do with a decent sci-fi show which isn't about people just being assholes to each other. Though Star Trek has always been better at doing the whole people-getting-along thing when they just do it rather than make a song and dance about it.

>>52242520

>historic artifact

It won't. The licensing alone makes so much money that Paramount and CBS won't let it die for good.

The issue is though, can they make something worth watching, rather than:

>they have color coded uniforms!
>they have a viewscreen!
>they speak in technobabble!

Because if all they do is make a dumb show that looks like Trek, then it won't get any traction. And, with it being on CBS's streaming service, it's unlikely to even get a chance to grow out of its Season 1 teething problems.

And believe me, it's going to have teething problems in Season 1.

If it dies for another twenty years, fine. I can live with that.

>>52242814
Then they were fucking retards for not going with one of the other designs of ye olde 23c ships that people already like.

Like the comfy as fuck Pioneer or the Ranger or some shit.

Even having it be set on a by then antiquated Daedalus still operating on duct tape and spit would have had a certain charm to it with the right cast.

>>52242814
>One of the things I heard recently (but have not been arsed to go find a source or confirm) is that the production was having trouble with the toys and collectables side of things

That's a troubling sign. A very troubling sign. I was reading an article last year in either Forbes or The Economist on how "merch" is a good indication of how well a movie will do at the box office.

They used a major animated feature as an example - one I can't remember the title of, sadly - and how, after previewing the film, neither McDs or BK decided to pay the license fees needed for "happy meal" toys. A 2nd tier fast food chain got the license instead and lost money because the film tanked.

>>52242877
>And, with it being on CBS's streaming service, it's unlikely to even get a chance to grow out of its Season 1 teething problems.

That's probably the biggest red flag. Not the production problems, not the virtue signaling, not the constant redesigns, not staff turnovers, but the fact that CBS wants the series to launch it's new streaming service.

If Discovery doesn't pull in the subscriptions the suits think it should, the axe is going to fall sooner than later.

>>52241834
>Some clarification/explanation about the things they've shown so far would be nice, if only to put an end to some of the retarded rumours going around.
TFW they aren't stupid rumors but what they are actually doing with the plot and setting. Like Sarek being an alt timeline hotspot somehow where he was three different races but somehow they are all connected?
That's what I'm most afraid of that all the crazy ideas that we have heard about are actually facts.

Remember that TOS episode where Kirk invaded Romulan space under secret orders and stole their fucking cloaking device? I don't think any of the other four captains would have pulled anything like that.

>>52243131
Sisko and Garek started a war between the Dominion and the Romulans by straight up murdering a guy. Though that Kirk thing was pretty baller.

>>52243131
Hell, i bet Janeway started more interstellar wars in her time on the delta quadrant than all the other starfleet captains in beta and alpha quadrant through out history combined.

>>52243151
Sosko didn't realize what was going on until it was almost too late to stop things from escalating. The only real part he had in starting the war was not exposing Garak.

>>52242877
Can you name a good Season 1 Star Trek? You are right that streaming it is a mistake, it should have gone to netflix if thats what they wanted but not CBS is intent on fucking themselves over.

The only hope i have is if it lasts 4 seasons cause like all trek it will suck at the start and take 2 seasons to get good

>>52242973
But why is CBS trying to set up a streaming service? any businessman is going to tell you it will fail. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Prediction: Star Trek is the only critically enjoyed, not acclaimed cause they hate star trek, show that cbs online has. Will be cancelled soon cause they can't compete with netflix.

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>>52243193
Not him, but TOS was arguably at its best in S1, when they were still trying new things to try to figure out how they were going to get out from Lost In Space's shadow. You could also argue S2 TOS was the best, after it had found its footing and niche. Neither of those applies to any of the other Trek shows, though a case could be made that S2 DS9 was at least out of the "growing pains" phase I would argue that DS9 found its footing with "Duet," and it was p. good from there on out.

>>52243285

They're not competing with Netflix. 188 countries are getting Discovery on Netflix.

It's just the U.S. and Canada that are getting stuck with CBS All Access.

>>52243285
Because retarded old executives are told everything's going digital and online, but they try to set up their own gated community because they're retarded and old and that's how TV was.

>>52243175
>Sosko didn't realize what was going on until it was almost too late to stop things from escalating.

Nigger please. He recruited Garak for fuck's sake. GARAK. And you want to believe he was naive enough not to think that some stone cold evil shit would happen?

That's like recruiting Lavrentiy Beria to run your secret police and then expressing shock when he smashes prisoners' balls with a sledge hammer.

Sisko knew damn well how far Garak would go. He just didn't want to know officially. He wanted plausible deniability so he could lie to others and, more importantly, himself.

"Well, I really didn't know he was going to murder a Romulan senator..."

Yeah, keep telling yourself that and you may actually start believing it, Benjy boy.

>>52243335
But delayed. I think execs should be shot in the head . Cause unless you release it to all countries close to the same time you fail cause people pirate or just lose care

>>52243285
>But why is CBS trying to set up a streaming service? any businessman is going to tell you it will fail.

You're asking me? Do I have a corner office at Television City? Do I tongue Les Moonves' balls weekly? Did my grandfather change our name from Shekelstein to Smithfield trying to get into that country club?

Any middle school Junior Achievement member can predict CBS' streaming service will fail and fail miserably, but broadcast TV is a rotting zombie and they have to keep the money coming in somehow.

After all, Shiloh wants nose job for her sweet 16th.

>>52243452
For real mate, from the bottom of my heart, fuck off from /tg/ and return to whatever circle-jerk, self-reassurance shithole you came from.

>>52243353
He hired Garak because he had connections in the criminal underground to needed experts to make the plan go as he stated and Garak can keep a secret. No, he really had NO idea Garak would play Benjo like a Banjo and have his own plan that required Sisko's plan to fail so that Garak's plan would work.

>>52243599
Then he was a naive fool.

>>52243599

Keep believing, Skippy, it makes the lies more palatable.

Ask yourself this, do you seriously think Starfleet Intel doesn't have a file on Garak several lightyears thick? And the same for the Obsidian Order? Nothing legally proven, mind you, just all the rumors, fragments, uncorroborated reports, all the usual intel gleanings. A list of all the dirty tricks, nasty bits, murders, muggings, and whatnot.

Sisko knows all about what Garak's old employers do, but he somehow doesn't think Garak will employ the same tradecraft? Sure.

>No, he really had NO idea Garak would play Benjo like a Banjo and have his own plan that required Sisko's plan to fail so that Garak's plan would work.

Sisko chose Garak because he knew Garak would still get the job done if Sisko's original plan failed. If his plan worked out, fine. If it failed, Garak would still find a way to complete the mission. Sisko just didn't want to know the details so he could continue lying to others and himself.

>>52243515

Sorry if I offended (((you))).

>>52241373
You can have an armed population without fascism, schlomo. Even in the first episode of ENT we saw a farmer in Oklahoma lay the smack down on a Klingon and some Suliban with a plasma rifle, so it's clearly something that changed after the founding of the UFP.

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So is the Obsidian Order really better than the Tal Shiar, or was Garak just blowing smoke?

If they are not really comparable, then how are they significantly different?

>>52243939

The short answer is: We don't know.

The only Obsidian Order guy we see in action is Garak, where he takes out a bunch of psychotic special forces Cardassians, and then murders a Federation away team with only O'Brien and Nog as the survivors.

The others? We briefly see them and Enabrin Tain get their asses handed to them along with the Tal'Shiar as they fall into a Dominion trap and the Obsidian Order effectively ceases to exist from that point on.

>>52243939
Garak was blowing smoke, but not intentionally - he's a son expressing faith in the life's work of his father. The Obsidian Order is a two edged sword, and one edge always points towards the Cardassian people. They're half foreign intelligence agency and half secret police dedicated to a totalitarian edifice of The Cardassian State. The Tal Shiar, by contrast, seems to focus a lot more outward while letting Romulan politicians and the military scheme and plot against each other. I suspect a large part of the difference is due to the Romulan's 200 year standing animosity with the Federation - when your enemies are the next best thing to post-scarcity tech wizards with a stable full of surplus doomsday devices, it behooves you to focus your spy network outward.

>>52243797
I really think Garak was the most integent ST character. Even above spock.

High praise, i know, but no one else was able to navigate every superpower like him. He didn't calculate like data and spock, he looked at the long road as a pragmatic, not an idealist.

Garak was the smartest person in ST

>>52243131
It wasn't just that he did it either, it was the way he did it. He beamed over, ripped the cloaking device out of it's plug, beamed back and sped away. Meanwhile Spock fucked the Romulan captain and then kidnapped her. The whole episode was crazy from start to finish.

>>52243151
It was a huge win for the good guys.

>>52244303
There are crazier episodes. If I'm being 100% honest, my favorite TOS episode is "A Piece of the Action", just for how ludicrous it is from start to finish.

Star Trek should never take itself too seriously.

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>>52245046
How many new star systems did the Ekosians gain?

>>52245046
At the cost of Sisko's soul, of course. But he can live with it.

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>>52245099
Given that they're modeled on Nazi Germany? Probably none. They didn't have warp travel, would never successful develop warp travel, and will collapse under their own weight unless they reform themselves so much that they're no longer Nazis except perhaps in name only.

The "economic miracle" thing that Hitler pulled off was a sham, a magician's trick, that suckers who only look at raw GDP still buy to this day. Even a casual understanding of economics reveals that the whole thing was set to tear itself apart even if World War II hadn't done that for them. In fact World War II is the only thing that delayed it.

Hang on, I have a pic...

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>>52245153

>>52245193
You asked, I answered.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great episode (in its own very silly way). I'm just saying that the Ekosians would be doomed from an economic (never mind moral) standpoint if they kept following Nazi ideologies. But though I forget how that episode played out in detail, I'm pretty sure that the episode ended with the Ekosian Nazi regime being overthrown, right? So it shouldn't be a problem.

Wouldn't mind a ship singing this as their tune

https://youtu.be/WOeYPpOblAw

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So, odds that Fleet Admiral (You) terrorizes the Kelvin timeline in one of these? It seems right up their alley.

>>52246891
Did somebody say rest for the dead?

>>52245239

The Prime Directive fucking "Fuhrer" and the actually evil 2nd in command were removed from power. The attack on Zeon was stopped, but nothing to suggest that the whole Nazism thing was stopped as well.

>>52238392

It's almost like it's a reflection to judge American and more generally Western society's high and low points from 1967-present, anon.

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>there will never be a set of Excelsior deck plans

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>>52250174
Eh?

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>>52250297
Or maybe pic related.

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>>52250322
Or this, though it isn't a deck plan.

About the Garak and Sisko thing remember that Garak was caught by Worf trying to make the Defiant fire on the Founders homeworld to destroy it. It's pretty clear from that how far he would go to achieve his objective so Sisko would have known how far it could have gone.

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>>52241856
>overboard with SJW virtue signalling
>SJW
>in a show about a space commie utopia
>in a show that, from its very start, was being shat on for its diversity
>in a show where the latest bridge crew comprised of a woman, an injun, an oriental, a white fuccboi a nignog (who was the best character out of all of them)
>pic related

>>52252329
There's such a thing as too much. Discovery is jumping the shark at Warp 9 by all accounts, right when sentiment is starting to turn against the SJW stuff in the public.

>>52234388
>>52237304
What's happening with sci boats? I've seen EPG getting nerfed, but what about drain?

>Rift getting a slight buff
>SubNuke is now a boff power
>SubNuke is now a broader sci buff in general
>Boarding parties are helped by DrainX
>Target Subsystem is now more than just the shitty tagging-with-negligible-effect it was before
Seems all sunshine and rainbows to me - is there something I'm missing? What's wrong with Drain and Ctrl boats now?

>>52252329
>quietly mixed-race crews = SJW
It's only SJW when they go LOOK HOW DIVERSE AND PROGRESSIVE WE ARE! Look at our gays, women, etc.! Even Gene's smug 80's leftism wasn't SJW stuff.

>>52252329
>>52252388
>>52252531
>a woman, an injun, an oriental, a white fuccboi and a nignog
On one hand, even including Best Girl and the Doctor, that's still by quite a long way the most diverse primary cast I've ever seen, especially in sci-fi of all places. Granted, we saw precisely well it was handled by Chakotay's "BUT THE SPIRITS WERE ACTUALLY AYYLMAOS" episode(s), but still.

Plus, speaking on a broader scale, one of Trek's defining features about its attempts to be super relevant and topical to contemporary """""moral""""" issues, to the point of sacrificing plot and a lot of characterisation for them. We've had episodes on playing god, on "the greater good", on white human supremacists, even one with a fucking Q wanting to commit suicide. One of the best films was the one that was transparently about the collapse of the Soviet Union. Granted, things being shoehorned as fuck is starting to get tired, but I for one welcome a spess show with more than one token ethnic character .

>>52252531
>quietly

>>52253673
In terms of the humans yeah. Nobody in character made a big deal out of Sulu, Chekov, Uhura, Geordi, Crusher, Admiral Nechayev, Bashir, Janeway, Harry Kim, Travis Mayweather, Hoshi, or any other human Starfleet character being anything other than a white male.

Note that Sisko is not on this list for his WE WUZ OPPRESHUNS 400 YEARS AGO bullshit he brought up about Vic Fontaine and the 1960s in Vegas for no reason. It would be like a Jewish player complaining about a Stargate campaign over the Book of Exodus.

>>52250702

Shhhh... Sisko dinno nuffin' and dindu nuffin'.

>>52253728
Yeah, so the episode where an image of Lincoln shows up and talks about how slavery was bad and how black women are awesome never existed.
Or the episode that was banned in the south for decades because a white man and black woman kissed never existed.
Or Chekov frequently talking about how awesome Russia was and everyone taking it as casual banter during the height of Cold War tensions never existed.
Or Geordi being from the futuristic utopian dream city of Mogadishu, Somalia never happened.
Or the episode where Samuel Clemens shows up in the future and they talk about how awesome multiculturalism is and how everything's a paradise.
Or Janeway frequently being subject to stronk woman who don't need no man to the extent that they neutered Chakotay because they didn't want muh female captain to seem weak in any sense.
Or the aforementioned Soviet Union movie doubling as a race relations movie to the extent that it pissed off all the black actors that they were scripted saying stuff that was anti-black in the real world.

I'm getting tired of this dumbshit conservative myth that Star Trek was anything but unapologetic liberalism just because they like their pew pew space battles.

>>52253792
None of that post ToS stuff you're referencing ever happened.

>>52253823
All of it happened, plugging your ears like a child doesn't help.

>>52253823
Guess I just imagined that episode where Riker talks the alien of the week through a sexual identity crisis then.

>>52253902
I mean hell if we're bringing up sexuality then between Riker and Jadzia, Star Trek has made it clear that being a massive pansexual slut is considered perfectly acceptable in the future.

>>52253933
I've found that there are 3 things to watch out for in Star Trek.

1. Is it a sex episode
2. Is it an evolution episode
3. Is Riker beardless

if any of those are a yes then switch of the T.V.

Bonus points for Wesley centric episode.

>>52253954
...Was there ever a Wesley centered sex episode?

>>52253975
Does "The Game" count?

>>52253975
No. Not that I remember. Thank holy fucking Christ. Just lots of acting awkward around girls that for some reason found him endearing.

>>52253954
>3. Is Riker beardless
I disagree with that, because the first couple of seasons have enough decent episodes in spite of the overall worse quality that you can't discount all of them. Same with people who write off the first two seasons of DS9.

>>52253792
>Yeah, so the episode where an image of Lincoln shows up and talks about how slavery was bad and how black women are awesome never existed.

MeTV just showed that episode last night, faggot, and Lincoln does none of those things.

>>Or the episode that was banned in the south for decades...

NBC had been afraid that would happen, but it never did.

>>Or Chekov frequently talking about how awesome Russia...

His "Russia invented it first" schitck was a running joke because, at the time, spokesmen for the USSR were constantly saying the same thing.

>>Or Geordi being from the futuristic utopian dream city of Mogadishu, Somalia never happened.

That's a retcon. Geordi was a service brat, both parents were Starfleet officers. A computer screen originally listed his birth place as the "African Confederation". He never spoke of it. The remastered version made it Somalia to up the SJW ante.

>>Or the episode where Samuel Clemens shows up in the future and they talk about how awesome multiculturalism is and how everything's a paradise.

Clemens accuses Troi and, by inference, the Federation of kidnapping all the different species he sees and forcing them to be servants. Troi then "convinces" him that's not the case in a 15 second conversation.

>>Or Janeway

Janeway was insane and Mulgrew is on record saying she deliberately played the character that way.

>>Or the aforementioned Soviet Union movie doubling as a race relations movie to the extent that it pissed off all the black actors...

Niggers gonna nig.

>>I'm getting tired of this dumbshit conservative myth that Star Trek was anything but unapologetic liberalism just because they like their pew pew space battles.

There's a HUGE difference between Roddenberry's 1960s, soft, limousine, free love, liberalism and the fascist left SJW shit infecting everything now and, if you weren't a 12yo with no comprehension of anything that occurred before your mother shit you out, you'd understand that.

>>52254170
"Baww why is this show putting niggers and gooks on my screen as anything other than subhuman, fuck this commie left SJW shit" - (You), 1966

>>52254214

>>Make wild claims
>>Claims proven wrong
>>Make ad hominem claims

Typical. Sad, but typical.

Does anyone here have experience with Starfleet Battles or Federation commander?

I've been watching TOS of late, and those starline minis / that game is tempting.

>>52254258
Sorry you have to craft alternative fact narratives to delude yourself into thinking Star Trek wasn't "SJW shit" by the standards of the time but that's just how it is. You might as well be claiming that gravity doesn't exist.

You want to know why the 1960s were "soft, free love, etc."? Because at the time everyone was hopped up on the Cold War expecting it to go hot, and liberalism at the time was a response to that. A gay character merely existing in Discovery will be no different than a black woman merely existing in TOS in terms of how much dinosaurs like you will shit on it, and I guarantee if there's a gay kiss, no matter how much it makes sense for the story, there will be fuckers like you who trash it for being "SJW virtue signalling" just like how people trashed the interracial kiss in TOS the same way. Society changes, so does media, and if you look at TOS relative to its time it was absolutely the same as the buzzwords you're shitting on today. Why is there a difference between TOS and modern media? Because there's a difference in society at large.

>>52254281
>Does anyone here have experience with Starfleet Battles or Federation commander?

Rules wise, SFB has become incredibly baroque. It's as bad as Advanced Squad Leader. You see players with multiple 3-ring binders, carts, etc.

The old 1980s Task Force Games version wasn't too bad. The rules hadn't become a cancer yet.

>>52254315
>You want to know why the 1960s were "soft, free love, etc."? Because at the time everyone was hopped up on the Cold War expecting it to go hot, and liberalism at the time was a response to that.

Skippy, I lived during the 60s so you don't need to "explain" them to me. We practiced "duck & cover" weekly. Hell, my first two schools were even segregated.

There's a huge difference between the liberalism of that era and the progressive fascism of this one.

>>52250297
>>52250322

I meant something like this.

>http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/sd-constitution-nx-1700.php

>>52253728
Hmm. Just reminded me of why I like Babylon 5. The character of the doctor, Stephen Franklin, was played by a black actor named Richard Biggs. Biggs always said that Franklin was his favorite character that he'd ever acted for, because not once in the entire series was the fact that Franklin was black brought up.

>>52254359
Yeah: you're not nostalgic about today's liberalism the way you are about your childhood.

>>52254922

As it should be on a station, or even in a universe, where you are conversing with aliens regularly.

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>>52254931
Nailed it.

>>52254922
Babylon 5 in general was actually very good at getting Star Trek's morality without needing the Star Trek label. Kinda funny that you mention Biggs was black, it's like thinking back to an old school friend and realise that oh yeah, they were. Never noticed. And I re-watched the whole damn thing only a couple of years ago. Not bringing it up as a point can work. I don't blame ol' Jazz Brain Brooks for bringing it up in DS9 though when he wanted to make a point, given it even mattering was so rare. Now if only Chakotay's plank/actor could have done that in Voyager it could have avoided being outright insultingly bad... Having a bit of a gripe about portrayal and not just leaving it to the writers can be very necessary. Colm Meany's insistence on avoiding certain bullshit regarding the Irish once he climbed the paycheck ladder saved us from Rumpelstiltskin being a horrific leprechaun for one.

>>52254281
SFB is clunky as fuck. Cannot recommend it. Literally worse than Battletech, and Battletech seems utterly archaic these days (though even that feels a lot more flowing and fun). If you're going to go down that route, bet the much easier, more modern A Call To Arms: Star Fleet Battles. Proven, good system at the core, much, much less clunk, still does a good job of capturing that style of starship battle.

>>52255077
>Colm Meany's insistence on avoiding certain bullshit regarding the Irish once he climbed the paycheck ladder saved us from Rumpelstiltskin being a horrific leprechaun for one.

Which wouldn't have made much sense anyway since Rumpelstiltskin is a German fairy-tale, not an Irish one...

Although I'll reiterate my statement from the previous thread that, as probably the most Irish person in this thread at the moment, I don't mind anything in "Up the Long Ladder" concerning their portrayal of Irish folk.

>>52254922
As opposed to TOS where the Engineer was Called M. Scott and was nicknamed Scotty, drank Scotch, wore a kilt, played the bagpipes, has swords and shields and bits of medieval looking Scottish armour in his quarters and made references to Scotland more than would naturally come up in natural conversation. Guess what? He was Scottish.

Any thoughts on Ascendancy?

I know it is expensive, but is it a good time once you get going?

>>52252531
>Look at our gays
I didn't mind the reveal in Beyond, desu
It was kinda cute, truth be told.

>>52254922
>>52255021
As opposed to ENT, where the black guy was so irrelevant that andorians referred to humans as "pinkskins"
reallymakesyouthink.m4a

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>>52255327
Cute or not Sulu is now bisexual rather than homosexual.

>>52255404
>Sulu is bisexual

Agreed.

He's also randy as hell.

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>>52255404
I always imagined Sulu practised the same doctrine as Riker: if it's pretty, fuck it.

Not that there's anything really establishing that in canon but, well he combined so many interests and skills (botany, classic firearms, fencing, starship piloting, combat, and command just to name a few that were seen) that limiting himself to just men or women seemed like it didn't fit.

>>52255515
Somewhere out there is a Gorn with Sulu somewhere in it's name.

Sulu out Kirked Kirk.

>>52255404
>>52255454
Prime Sulu is straight, JJ Sulu is gay. Not hard to understand.

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>>52255532
Well it helps that Sulu is a name that a Gorn could pronounce without much trouble.

Additionally I can honestly see why people lament not getting a series with him. Every single time that Sulu turned up as a captain in not just the show but all the vidya too, it's convincing. There's none of that oh they just made him a captain because everyone gets to be crap that's had with a lot of characters.

>Want Trek to show a post-racist, post-sexist, and post-gender future.
>Cast Trek with racist, sexist, and gender quotas.

>>52254315
>if there's a gay kiss
Trek already did that. DS9, first homo kiss on network TV. Good shit, Farrell and what'shername were hot, and the story was sweet.

>>52256229
Yeah, and it got shit on by conservative groups for it. Now imagine if it's two guys instead of two hot women making out.

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>>52255404
On a tangential note, this was a damn good novel.

>>52255319
You'll need 3 or 4 games with the same crowd to get a hang of it, but it's good fun.

>>52255135
>as probably the most Irish person in this thread at the moment

Afraid not. Though I do agree with your assessment. Most stereotypical portrayals of Irish are inoffensive and have a touch of truth to them. It'd be rare enough that any stereotype actually annoys me.

As a culture, we've essentially created an Irish "brand" that's become synonymous. I would say that the Irish culture displayed in Star Trek is more or less in line with that. A slightly bombastic, accentuated version of reality, but still relatively accurate.

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So folks, was he really that bad? Did he really care about the Bajorans or was he just tricking himself?

>>52256945
He really did care. He was a bit of a cunt but he did sacrifice efficiency for the betterment of the slaves.

That "condemning" rant in the cave with Sisko was after he lost his mind.

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>>52256945
He was a totally self servicing bastard that tried to say the right thing but not really do it. It's kind of shown by how many fucking times he sells out in the series to save his own skin or to improve his own position while saying he did it for bigger reasons.

>>52256945
He cared about Bajorans the same way you care about your fetishes. That's all they were to him. He has a thing for smoothskins. Think of him like a brony. He will write speeches about how much he likes them and cares for them and then will turn around and sexually degrade them and force them to his perverted will.

>>52256945
Literally the most evil character in DS9. At least other Cardassians and Romulans and such were working and fighting for their people. At least the Founders went about their business because they thought everything was out to get them. Dukat at no point ever cared about anything but himself and he sold his own people out at least three separate times so that he could try and make himself the hero, which funny enough made him the most evil son of a bitch even by his own peoples' standards.

>>52237472
>Technology is the only measure of a civilization that matters, if you fall beneath an arbiter threshold of technological capability you are not real people.
Sensible policy which we could learn a lot from. Don't treat civilizations too stupid to invent X technology as equal to those that can.

Probably use splitting the atom or launching something into orbit as our real-world prime directive equivalent.

>>52257277
By that measure Nausicaans are on par as a civilian with humans.

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>>52240992

>>52257277
Well, the Vulcans knew of Earth for a while as shown by ENT. They left us alone for the most part until they saw a freaking hairless ape ride an old ICBM into orbit and then go to warp somehow. I think they had the same idea the Feds would.' Let's keep an eye on these idiots so they don't fuck up the rest of the universe.' Of course that didn't really work out that well for them either.

>>52257127
Oh god. You're right. You're so right, he's a brony. And when his pony waifus didn't want his dual lizard dicks, he set them on fire to punish them, and teach them how much they actually wanted his grey lovin'.

>>52257395
What the fuck am I reading? Is Dave a Trek Vidya gaem character?

Is there more?

>>52257646
That's just some OC that was created here some months ago.
There probably ain't any more stuff on him though.

>>52257646
>What the fuck am I reading?

On one hand, it's Old Man Henderson through a Trek lens.

On the other hand, it's written by someone with a better grasp of the abilities of Trek tech than 99.99% of Trek's writers.

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>>52257462

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>>52257854

>>52254002
You can't, but there's still enough weak episodes in the front end of both series that there's nonetheless a notable jump in quality.

>you will never get a war-games episode where Picard and Sisko fight each other in a game of cat and mouse

>>52258987
It is a bit strange how Picard never showed up again in DS9. Would be cool if he and the Enterprise showed up in one of the Space Battles against the Dominion.

>>52259184

Picard is a diplomat and not a soldier and the Enterprise is a symbol of the Federation and 'not' (wink wink) a warship.

That's not to say that both can't pull more than their own weight in a fight, but they're better used elsewhere. Like putting out the unending series of dumpster fires that is the Alpha Quadrant.

>>52259184
I think they decided that introducing Picard into diplomatic affairs with the Cardassians, after he was tortured by them for a prolonged period of time was a bad idea.

As for during the war, it just wouldn't do to have Starfleet's new flagship sunk by a random Jem'Hadar kamikaze attack. So she and her crew were taken off the front lines and given the job of keeping the Federation's house in check.

>>52256824
Well, I did say "probably". Plus as I also pointed out, the Irish in "Ladder" were specifically trying to live without high technology, (so it's not like, say, a movie set in "modern" Ireland that showed people living like that), AND were nevertheless still happy to accept help from tech-friendly people when offered and they needed it.

>>52259638
I always preferred the novels that showed that the Enterprise-E *was* in the thick of the fighting during the Dominion War, but just happened to serve on fronts that meant it didn't cross paths with Sisko or DS9 much if at all.

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>>52259561
Excuse me sir, but wouldn't a diplomatic ship be better if it was smaller, less threatening and faster than the galaxy class which has the most powerful phaser array (according to trek techno babble about phaser arrays) and multiple science, engineering, daycare and all the other facilities imaginable?
Wouldn't it be more cost effective to build a ship half the size of the enterprise but with capabilities more fleshed out on any one of those many tasks it can handle? Also wouldn't it be a better idea to fly ships in small fleets of 5 or so ships where one would be the command ship, two would be escorts and the other two are a science vessel and an engineering facility respectively.

>>52259875

>faster than a Galaxy class

Until the Intrepid, the Galaxy WAS the fastest ship in the fleet.

And then they were both outclassed by the Prometheus for reasons.

>Galaxy, warp 9.6 for ~12 hours. 9.8 if you want to fly her apart, Sulu style
>Intrepid, warp 9.75 for ~12 hours, 9.975 max
>Prometheus, warp 9.99

Everything else more or less makes sense. But for some reason Trek doesn't seem to think battle groups or flotillas are something that should be done, at least, not until the Dominion War, anyway.

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>>52259875
>wouldn't a diplomatic ship be better if it was smaller, less threatening and faster
And that's why the Bellerophon exists.

>>52260196
A deep space explorer/Mongol horseman of war and destruction?

>>52259875
>Excuse me sir

Don't start that shit here.

Would the Romulans actually stand a chance against the UFP if it came to war?

>>52260753
How much of the conveniently forgotten übertech McGuffins pile the that the feds have built up over the decades of plot writers trying to up the nate over and over and over again while hitting weekly deadlines will the feds bring out?

>>52260753
In a one-on-one total war situation? Romulans would get the early advantage due to their cloaking, but the Federation would eventually beat them back and conquer Romulus to set up a friendly puppet government. However, that would leave the Federation open to attacks from the Cardassians, Tzenkethi, Kzinthi, Sheliak, Talarians, Orions, Nausicaans, Gorn, Klingons, and whoever the fuck else wanted to take advantage of the situation. The Federation is right in the middle of a bundle of potentially hostile powers and their diplomacy-first mentality is mostly out of necessity; they simply cannot afford to constantly fight wars with everyone.

>>52260898
Klingons would be right there with the Feds in a war against the Romulans though, they'd fucking love it.

>>52261076
Unless they're enemies again.

>>52261076
Yeah, right up until the Chancellor decides now would be a good time to invade the Archanis sector.

>>52261102
Enemies enough to put fighting the feds above kicking the Romulans in again? That'd take some serious doing to make any kind of sense.

>>52261342
Star Trek Online taught me that nothing has to make sense.

>>52261404
>Star Trek Online
Maybe you should try something less blatantly shite instead?

>>52261492
There's nothing left.

Nothing.

>>52260279
More like a deep space U2.

>>52261342
You mean like how the Klingons decided to invade Federation space a year into their war with the Cardassians?

>>52261123
Any chancellor who turned down an excuse to invade Romulans without the Federation nagging them over it would find a d'k tahg in his chest pretty quickly.

>>52261607
I'm not saying they wouldn't invade the Romulans, I'm saying there's no guarantee they wouldn't turn around and invade the Federation as well.

>>52243905
The UFP was founded at the end of Enterprise.

>>52260753
Yes and no. The Romulan navy is basically the only other alpha/beta native force that matches Starfleet technologically. The Cardies and the Klingons need numbers to properly contest territory with the UFP and everybody else is just a second-string threat.

Combat wise, this means that, unless you're on a star cruiser or an anti-borg fleet ship, you'll be either outgunned or out-teched by your pure-military, Romulan opponent. An Akira can happily take on a Mogai, but throw a Nova or Excelsior at that and you have a different story.

However the Romulan navy is smaller, owing to their smaller population base. That gives Starfleet a defensive advantage. So long as they concentrate on defending member worlds and pick their open fleet engagements carefully, Starfleet should be able to outlast Romulus.

The real wildcard comes with the Tal'Shiar. If this is a premeditated invasion, the Tal'Shiar have no doubt laid significant groundwork for a lightning strike offensive. Widespread sabotage and mid-level espionage might break the back of Starfleet resistance in the early months. And if the Romulan navy can turn that into momentum, then they can easily acquire their core targets, Vulcan and Earth, with directed pressure.

It would be a big gamble, though. Unless the Romulans could recruit allies, any invasion would likely require a successful blitzkrieg strategy.

>>52261775
>An Akira can happily take on a Mogai

Human please. Shinzon would have blown up five or six Akiras in the time it took him to take out two Mogais and a Sovereign.

>>52260753
Romulans rely on a big-ship strategy that would leave them very vulnerable to shit like the Defiant and fighter wings. Also, neither the D'deridex nor the Mogai can come close to matching a Luna or Sovereign class in a fight.

>>52261969
You're forgetting that in the case of all out war with the Romulans post-Endgame, every front line ship would be carrying transphasic and tricobalt torpedoes instead of photon torpedoes. One shot, one kill, even from a dakka-truck-module Danube.

Oh, and the Federation ships would have cloaks too since the Treaty of Algeron is gone and the Defiant gave Starfleet a chance to work the bugs out of integrating cloaking devices with technology and tactics.

>>52262201
Similarly, the Romulans would likely employ thelaron and trilithium weaponry.

>>52262201
Tricobolt is a demolition device not a standard torpedo. Transphasic was future-tech and gonna get nabbed by the department of temporal investigations for fucking over the timeline the moment Voyager stopped and parked at a space-dock.
Defiant lost its cloak when it got blown up. Would take a good while for the feds to manufacture and incorporate cloaking devices of their own into ships on a wide scale.

In an all out war post-Endgame, hell, post-Nemesis even, it would look much like the same fleets at the end of the Dominion war for a good while, until the lessons of that and developments had could be included into ships.

>>52262449
>Transphasic was future-tech and gonna get nabbed by the department of temporal investigations for fucking over the timeline the moment Voyager stopped and parked at a space-dock.
And then Section 31 has a quiet word with DTI and they let the fleet use them after all.

>>52262483
>section 31

Tal'Shiar spooks, you mean?

>>52262483
Yeah but they'd probably be in limited supply, so you'd probably mainly see them deployed on the heaviest-hitter ships.

>>52262771
Protag Class, basically.

>>52262483
I honestly don't think Section 31 would have that kind of reach or power. DTI is at least a legitimate, recognised organisation within the Federation rather than a rogue group that every fanfiction author wants to attribute everything that ever happened to because apparently that's somehow interesting/smart.

>>52262839
Bingo.

>>52262848
Keep in mind that Section 31's little Founder virus could have won the war against the Dominion for all time, not just a temporary peace at the cost of millions of lives, and the Federation as a whole is aware of that now. I suspect post-DS9 they'll take on at least a partially public role, much like how NSA used to stand for No Such Agency but now they have a Twitter account.

>>52262848
Who wins in a Sue-off, Elias Vaughn or M'k'n'zy of Calhoun

>>52263023
Q.

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>>52260505
Is posting anime also forbidden?

>>52263087
Do you mean Q or Q? Or perhaps 0? Maybe even (*)?

>>52263023
Admiral (you), of course.

>>52261591
That little incident can be easily explained by two things:
1) Changeling Martok egged that conflict on
2) Gowron was an idiot.

>>52263258
Sure but the fact that Klingon society at large went along with it tells you everything you need to know about how strong the Federation-Klingon "alliance" really is. It wasn't even Gowron and Martok dragging everyone else along, Klingons in general were gung-ho about going out to kill their former allies, and then turned around and fought alongside them no problem when the Dominion finally barged into the Alpha Quadrant.

All it takes is one ambitious Chancellor to say "hey everyone, let's kill some Feds" and you have a bunch of Klingons screaming at border.

>>52263393
In a weird way it kind of lets you still have the sneaky, duplicitous Klingons from TOS.

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>>52263258
I don't think Gowron was an idiot. But he was absolutely out of his depth. The guy had gotten into power through being basically the only other option than Duras, who Worf murdered (which was awesome).

He'd politic'd his way up and over and over had some external force remove whatever internal opposition problem he had; Duras being slain by Worf, Worf convincing Kurn to follow him saved his ass for a while, the civil war having the Duras sisters being shown to be Romulan-backed by the Federation, Changeling Martok exposed by Sisko's strike team... over and over Gowron basically lucked and politic'd his way through stuff. Every time he was roadblocked, especially by force, he made very rash decisions. The attack on DS9. The continual stupid attacks during the Dominion war out of fear of Martok challenging his leadership (despite Martok not actually wanting to). Probably other bits I am forgetting.

Either way, not an idiot, you don't climb that high in the Klingon empire with no war-leading prowess without something else to back it up. But consistently prone to rash, violent decisions when stumped. Which was good enough to get him by when it was a personal duel. Just fucked him over in anything larger.

>>52254170
To be fair, Liberal then is Conservative now. People generaly become more conservative as they grow older, Conservatives today are the same generation that watched star trek when TNG was new. That version of liberalism is far different and less radical than the "you don't agree with me so i get my friends and harass you (see recent protest as listed evidence)" Liberalism of today.
Also back in the Clinton days what liberals call a protest today, would have been classed as a riot.

Be honest. Which Trek aliens have you developed a fetish for?

>>52263992
Medusans. This explains a lot of my behavior, really.

>>52263992
Bajorans. Kira and Ro were... important to me when I was younger.

>>52263992

Orions. Klingons. Cardassians. Romulans. Bajorans.

Frankly, I blame TOS for my greenskin fever in general.

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Why are Star Wars /co/ allowed to be good, but Trek stuff is almost all junk? (I'm not going to say all SW comics are good, but many are at least decent.) Is it because SW has such little actual canon, that writers aren't afraid to do what they want (I've noticed that a lot of the worse SW comics are more firmly tied to the movies, etc.), while the Trek comics stick more to established stuff? Is it because Lucas Books actually supported the EU, while CBS could hardly care less about what happens in the comics and just wants shekels? Does Trek just attract lower-quality writers? Or just more writers, and thus there is a greater likelihood that some of it is quality stuff? It's not like the SW books are any better than the Trek stuff (Zahn excepted).

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>>52264580
that also applies to the porn.

Thinking mainly of comics rather than novels but some applies to both:
I think it is genuinely harder to tell a good Star Trek story. Star Wars is incredibly formulaic and is fine with being incredibly cheesy and hamfisted because it's not like the original trilogy isn't full of that. But the set up is incredibly simple good guys versus bad guys, evil empire, good rebels, mystical jedi and a lot of hardware porn. Vast amounts of character in star wars is simply the vehicles used.

Star Trek, to get the appropriate feel is a lot hard. Yes, star trek can be cheesy, and do commentary, and loves hamfisted social commentary at times but getting it to be GOOD at the same time as dealing with mediocre writing is a lot harder. Hardware porn is not so much a thing though the ships themselves an certainly be characters. Individuals are usually uniformed which doesn't lend itself well to easy visual characterisation for not-so-great artists. The hardware they use is standardised which doesn't aid the simple characterisation that can be had by giving a character a unique look and set of tools. The civilian fashion is mostly garbage too but that's just me bitching.

All of that piles up to additional difficulty. Despite the freeform nature of just making shit up that the setting technically allows for, trying to create additional fiction for Star Trek is akin in many ways to doing historical fiction in that there's still a lot that it needs to get it 'right' if it's not gonna be laughable. And on top of that, since there's much less direct visual distinction, characters need to not just conform to what's expected of them in terms of the setting, but be interesting. And a lot of people are really shit at making characters that do even as much as pass the Plinkett test, let alone be interesting and compelling. Add on the demands of the setting and boom, lotta crap piles up.

>>52264914
>The civilian fashion is mostly garbage too but that's just me bitching.
Out of universe they made the fashions, art, etc. incredibly bad so that they wouldn't get accused of ripping off anything good.

In universe... consider that the CIA deliberately encouraged abstract "modern art" as a psyop to fuck with the Soviets and to keep a bunch of American NEETs employed as artists, thus fluffing the employment numbers a bit. Now consider the Federation, with TRILLIONS of NEETs to keep occupied if they don't want a rebellion. This is even worse if you consider that the more authority-friendly and motivated types in the Federation tend to join Starfleet anyways, so the NEETs are the rebellious and cranky ones by nature. There's only so many of them you can "encourage" to leave for the colonies where their energy can be put to productive use, and even that backfired in the formation of the Maquis.

I propose that in universe, the arts have all gone to complete shit because with no scarcity or value, there's no objective way to rank taste, so you get terrible crap like Deviantart and fanfics iterated for 300 years. Cooking is the exception to that, because judging taste is quite instinctive and literal when it comes to food.

>>52264580
>>52264914
The simplest answer is just that it's a lot easier to get into Star Wars. You want to get into Star Wars you just need to watch the movies, then move on to whatever expanded universe stuff catches your eye. You want to get into Star Trek you have 30 seasons worth of TV and 10 movies to get through because you're severely limiting whatever expanded universe stuff you can get into the less you watch, especially with how many multi-generational crossover arcs there are, and that's not including the JJ stuff.

>>52263992
Caitians. They give me an overwhelming urge to try and fuck the fur off of them.

>>52265477
I think the Federation just suppresses most art and only allows non-offensive art that appeals to all species.

>>52265477
>>52266007
Well apparently in the DS9 era most human artists are preoccupied with reinterpreting art from other species instead of making new human art, which Bashir complains about at one point.

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>>52263992
Green alien girls are hot and flexible.

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>>52266075
That's a callback to real life, just like the "muh home grown food" thing was in that same era of Trek. Instead of reinterpreting alien art, it was reinterpreting non-Western art (including the first wave of American weeaboos). Instead of bitching about replicated food it was bitching about processed food, microwave dinners, etc. It's all just as transparent as STVI being about the USSR if you're old enough to remember the culture of the time.

>>52263992
Very vanilla for me, the Vulcans, I have a thing for short hair and pointy ears.

>>52263682
>Which was good enough to get him by when it was a personal duel

Worf would disagree. Everything else was spot on, though.

>>52267044
To be fair to Worf though, he's probably the best swordsman in the Empire by the time he fights Gowron.

>>52241442
Ayy, it's the other anon who likes Enterprise S3 and 4!

>>52267137
Worf is gonna go down in history as slayer and maker of kings (well, chancellors) given he killed Duras, pushing Gowron to the top, then killed Gowron, refused the position and got Martok in place.

Doing it once is pretty extraordinary, but understandable given he had serious personal beef with Duras and Gowron was incidental. Doing it a second time, well, Yeah that's nailing his position into the histories. I tried listing just an overview of all the shit that would make it into some Klingon saga of him from his birth to a noble house, being lost to the empire in the Khitomer massacre, all the shit he fought and actually beat (like repeated encounters with the Borg including the rescue of Picard which showed that he really wasn't wrong about honour and courage being two things they had as an advantage), that time in the Jem'Hadar prison camp, when he was responsible for the (figurehead) successor to Khaless getting made emperor, but there is simply too fucking much to list. Worf was an epic in the making.

So damn much opera would inevitably be written about him, especially following DS9.

>>52267137
>best swordsman in the empire is a human-raised former Starfleet officer

Is there a word for Mary Sue in the Klingon dictionary they published? Worf was always my second favorite after Data.

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>>52263100

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>>52267440

>>52267452
Little blurry there, bruh.

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>>52267452

Its amazing, and I wish there were more.

>>52267401
Maybe. I think the Klingons wouldn't see him as worthy of too much song because that would make them reflect on the shortcomings of the modern Empire. And since their entire worldview is that they're better than they've ever been every time they wipe out some farming community, it's unlikely they'd face facts.

>>52267424
Yes, the best swordsman in the Empire is guy who actually practices and uses the damn thing, rather than the equivalent of LARPing weeaboos.

>>52267452
Uh oh, looks like your house took photons while you were taking the picture. Divert power to inertial dampeners!

>>52267440
Is that actually any good?
>>52267452
>actually done by weebs, not japs
Art can be written off, at least.

>>52267467
Sorry, taking pictures with my shitty cellphone and I have MS, so the old hands are a lil shaky.

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>>52267471

Its a collection of short Star Trek Stories in graphic format, and they are almost all fairly good and silly fun.

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>>52267508

Yes, in keep with anime and manga tropes, gundam like battle suits attack the enterprise at one point.

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>>52267524

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>>52267584

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>>52267599

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>>52267625

>>52259875
I would imagine that, since Enterprise is the flagship, it's meant to be best ish at everything and so it's big with strong shields and guns in case it needs to defend something (like important diplomatic passengers) or it wants to get really close to something dangerous for science reasons, and it's expected to be able to do diplomatic stuff because it's the flagship and so aliums are more impressed by it than some diplo-only ship and captain they've never heard of, etc.

Plus, given how it's supposedly exploring a lot I'd want something tough and well armed in case it runs into someone aggressive and isn't fast enough to run away, plus able to manufacture all kinds of spare parts and do science upon any weird shit it sees.

Plus I, personally, would be less intimidated by some aliens showing up in one big ship than a group of smaller ships, if they say they're explorers.

>>52267769
There's also a sort of dignity for you when they send their biggest and most expensive shit to the greeting. It's like when a guy springs for a limo instead of just driving you to prom in his mom's sedan.

I feel like the Excelsior is the equivalent to a mom's four door sedan.

>>52267920
>I feel like the Excelsior is the equivalent to a mom's four door sedan.
In that it is ideal for 90% of jobs?

>>52268134
No, it can do 90% of jobs, like taking your girl to the prom, but one is hardly ever proud of or impressed with it.

>>52268195
Taking your girlfriend to prom is 90% of jobs?

>>52263992
Romulans for the passionate, erotic hand holding.

Second place goes to Andorians, I'm not sure if its in spite of, or because of the fact that I'm still not sure who puts what into where at what stage to make a blue baby, but its interesting to think about at least.

>>52268264
Aright, this is real simple. There are two male sexes and two female sexes; the two males each inseminate the first female sex (separately or together, biology doesn't discriminate) which fertilizes an egg in said first female. That female then transfers the fertilized egg/zygote to the womb of the second female, who carries the fetus to term.

>>52268248
It is within the purview of jobs that mom's sedan can do, which according to >>52268134 is about 90% of all jobs you can/have to do with a car.

>>52268417
I'd guess with that setup their society/culture probably shits a lot on that second female sex.

>>52267920
>I feel like the Excelsior is the equivalent to a mom's four door sedan.

In the TNG era only; when it debuted it was more like a BMW. Fancy, potent, fast as hell...mechanically a nightmare to maintain.

>>52261492
>he says, in what's basically /stog/

i hoped back into STO is the fleet still active?
do we have everything researched so i can buy my bullshit TOS era stuff?

why was sisko the best captain

>>52269561
he was bald, he was bearded, he was black, he was a leader guy

he couldn't NOT be awesome

>>52268849
>Implying STO isn't shit
Sure combat is fun and story is good at best and hrrible shite at worst and the cash shop is probably one of the least jewish in the industry, but the game is dead and you know why.

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This guy was super gay for Kirk.

>>52257395
My sides have just broken through the Warp 10 Threshold.

I now have lizard sides because of that.

Do they ever explain who Jeffrey is, and why starships are full of his tubes?

What would you take from STO and make alpha canon? Say a show we're to be set post-hobus. What parts of STO would you use for stories/world building.

I would definitely keep the Romulan Republic. And I also quite like the non-grindy parts of Delta-Voyager. But I'd completely drop the Iconians and most of the Klingon arc.

>>52270097
Everything surrounding Hobus. Taris and Hakeev fuck around with shit they don't understand, Hobus goes boom, technobabble happens, Romulus goes boom, nobody knows what the fuck is actually going on so they just blame everyone they can.

I'm fine with keeping the Iconians as long as they're relegated to being in the shadows like they were prior to "Surface Tension" and the revamp of the Borg/Undine arc. I'm fine with Hakeev being their puppet, as long as you hear about them but never see them.

>>52270097
I would keep the Dominion fleet coming back though the wormhole after getting Aku'd by the Wormhole Aliens.

>>52270217
I like that in concept, but in execution it was absolutely terrible in every respect.

>>52269894
Just some Starfleet Engineer that got sick of having to pull apart half the deck to get at important conduits. Probably would have shown up in Enterprise at some point to oversee the Refit and would have tubed her up.

>>52269894
In universe? Not sure.

But the name definitely came from one of the designers, Matt Jefferies.

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>>52263992
>Cardassians
Just tell me you wouldn't.

>>52263992
Trill, but that's cheating because they're just humans with spots.

>>52257127
>>52257462
>>52257854
>>52258058
>>52196395
>Reminder that Kira's hostility made her look like a massive whore to every Cardassian in existence and they all though she was madly in love with Dukat.
>Every Starfleet officer on the station no doubt had been given a cultural briefing, they just didn't bother to tell Kira because they thought it was funny.
>>52205187
>Might also because this is Kira we're talking about here. Can you even imagine how awkward that conversation would have been?

>>52270658

Yeah, you must have dug deep to find a Star Trek race that is basically just humans with one minor altercation.

>>52270805
>alteration

Fuck; ruined a perfectly good sarcastic remark.

>>52270618
>You will never have angry sex with a stand-offish Cardassian scientist

>>52260505

what exactly is wrong with based Plinkett?

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Reminder that Vic Fontaine was a better counsellor than Troi.

>>52271746
reminder that vic fontane was an unnecessary addition that conflicted with the overall theme and feel of season 7 and he should have been erased.

>>52271746
That's not an achievement. It's like saying you beat the quadruple amputee at tennis.

>>52271781
And he was still a better counsellor than Troi.
>Captains log, Stardate 47286.2: Had to pretend to look interested as Troi claimed she could sense feelings again. I don't know why she still does this, she knows none of us care. Maybe she doesn't? Maybe she has no ability whatsoever and she's been fucking with us all this time? Hell, maybe she genuinely thinks she can sense emotions and her family can't bring themselves to tell her that she's the Betazoid equivalent of a blind man who doesn't know he's black? You could not fathom how glad I was when the ships counselor position got shifted down to the bowls of the ship instead of the bridge during the war.

>>52271862
>"Captain's log, Stardate 47283.9..."

>"Once again Wesley managed to get past the childlocks on his replicator. Deck 3 report that it will be three more days before the smell of lube and burning rubber gets out of the corridors. Meanwhile, I find myself troubled over the diplomatic consequences of Worf getting blind drunk on blood wine and vomiting all over the Devraxian Amabassador last week. One of these days I really must ship him off to some space station somewhere."

>"Captains log, supplmental: Maybe I should do that for Barclay as well? What's the worst that could happen?"

>"Captains log, Stardate 47285.1: I found Data and Geordie drinking my non-replicated Wines. I forced them to drink the entire bottle as a lesson. They assure me that it wont happen again. For the sake of discipline I confined them to their quarters for the evening and disabled their replicators from serving them dinner.

>As well as these incidents, I am also disturbed by reports from the Romulan neutral zone that the Romulan mining commission is outfitting their overly angry mining captains with Borg Hybrid technology. I feel that this might pose an unacceptable risk should something happen to Romulus causing him to go on a massive revenge spree. As usual, the admiralty ignores me out of spite. Plus Janeway aparrantly stated that "Nothing bad ever came from co-opting Borg tech! NOTHING. I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU HEARD."
The bitch."

>"Captains log, supplemental: Well, at least it keeps her out of the Captains chair. Which is the important thing."

>>52271881
>Captains log, Stardate 47285.5: Ensign Ricky pointed out that our old style Ceremonial Garb looked like a dress. Now it's all I can see. Thank god Starfleet switched up to that classy white number. Indeed, it was only at the last diplomatic function with the Orion Legitimate Business Concord that Commander Riker impressed to me that said uniform was "the greatest pussy magnet ever". I find myself agreeing, as we were both swimming in green skinned bitches that day.
>And as the legendary James T Kirk once said: "Isn't that REALLY what Starfleet is all about?"

>Captains log, supplemental: Got caught in a Tholaron Storm in the Epstein-McCartney Nebula. Had to reverse the polarity a couple of times to shift it. Same old same old.

>Data superglued hair on his lip from the Ships Barbershop in an effort to make himself look manlier. Unfortunately Geordi intentionally sabotaged the effort by telling him to base it on Charlie Chaplin. He basically looked like robot Hitler. Thankfully Worf has no tact and pointed it out fairly quickly. I could not imagine what Ensign Goldmans reaction would have been."

>Captains log, supplemental: Apparently Ensign Goldman got killed when I, Commander Riker and Geordi went down to Planet Castrato 7. I thought that was Ensign Bucky. Huh.

>>52271900
Assuming you haven't seen this already you might get a chuckle out of this.

http://www.somethingawful.com/news/blue-stripe-life/

>>52271862

>the counsellor's office gets moved into the engineering section, right next door to the water treatment plant
>Troi spends all day in her windowless office and waits for someone, anyone to talk to her
>except when Barclay knocks and she pretends she isn't there

>>52262449
Plus out of the 3 Allied Powers, the Romulans lost very little compared to the Federation. Both are leagues behind the Klingons in terms of losses as the Klingon Empire was battered by their Civil War, their wars with the Cardassians and Federation prior the Dominion War , and the Dominion War itself.

>>52271995

Come to think of it, is there any EU content that continues the History of the decline and fall of the Klingon Empire?

>>52271995
So considering how the Feds get BTFO whenever one Borg ship shows up in their backyard. Just how many ships have the UFP lost in total to the Borg you think? And seeing how many they could field against the Dominion just how many ships did Star Fleet have at its height before all the big losses?

>>52272065
Not to my knowledge. STO had the Klingons make a comeback after annexing the Gorn and Orions into the Empire. The Armada games had them fight the Borg, House of Duras remnants, and Cardassian Holdouts

>>52271938

>>I get there and Worf answers the door completely naked. Great start. He smells like he's been running laps inside a dog's asshole and he is apparently drunk again.

>>She's got an okay rack, but I look down and she's wearing this thong thing. The carpet matches the drapes, but she's got wall to wall Berber. It was like a rubber band wrapped around a big red spider.

>>Data is just looking at them and cocking his head like some sort of albino bird.

>>He sat on his swaybacked sofa watching me fix the damn thing and then he cajoled me into looking at his collection of alien bongs.

>>Turns out Wesley decided he wanted a "giant rubber vagina" (direct quote from Lt. Barclay) and it came out of the replicator a bit more suddenly than Wesley had expected.

Thank you for that link.

>>52272174
A lot of the ships we see in the Dominion Wars are recommissioned with Skeleton crews. Sure you have the newer, anti-borg fleet and contemporary designs, but there's a bunch of Mirandas, Excelsiors and even Connies that have been upgunned and sent out to absorb torpedoes. After the war, a lot of those ships are going straight back to the scrapyard.

Between the battles at Sol and 359, I'd wager that Starfleet has lost 80+ ships against the Borg. But those ships were fully crewed so the loss of experienced officers was the bigger issue that the actual vessels. By the Dominion war, Utopia Planitia and Antares could probably churn out dozens of ships each month, the problem was crewing them.

Post war, post borg, Starfleet's primary problem would be chronic under-staffing. They're probably looking to give experienced non-coms promotions to cover their losses until the next batch of cadets can refill the ensignry. But that means that a lot of people who should, by this stage in their career, maybe have made Lieutenant (senior grade) already have 3 or 4 pips on their collar and command of a Starship.

It should be fairly evident that giving someone, with little to no command experience, the reigns of a starship is going to end poorly.

>>52272313
Fortunately, with the Cardassians and Klingons still recovering and the Romulans in turmoil post-Shinzon, the Federation probably would only have to worry about border skirmishes, pirate raids, and standard friendly-territory patrolling. Plenty of opportunities for a wet-behind-the-ears captain to get their feet under them, while the already-experienced officers are assigned to actual crisis management.

>>52271746
Even Lwaxana knew her daughter was a useless piece of shit and was desperate to marry her off to some high ranking Fed or officer before her looks melted away. Riker was the perfect candidate except he wouldn't commit to anything, even stalling out his career.

She spread those legs to get her daughter on the most important ship in the Federation, knowing she'd be rubbing shoulders with every who's who of the Federation and Starfleet but fucking Riker showed up there too and stalled out her daughters relationships even further while he slept around.

>>52272313
Considering how stupid difficult it was to get into Starfleet, TNG era, yeah, I can see staffing being a severe issue.

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>>52272313
Here's an out there idea for the UFP, how would they react to a private groups that worked like sci-fi 'Blackwater' type of companies? I imagine that Star Fleet would get all sorts of bent out of shape because of it. But I think there is a need for that type thing in the setting since Star fleet can't be everywhere and material protection is kind of low on their list of things to do. So how would you go about this in setting? And just how heavy gunned would you go with these private outfits you think?

>>52272313
cough... Red Squadron... cough

>>52272484

This is one of the dumbest things Ive ever seen posted in a Trek Thread, and someone posted Star Trek Manga.

>>52272313
And that just makes the continued presence of the whole TNG crew all the more infuriating.

After Generations, there's basically no reason for the entire crew to stay together besides wanting to make more TNG movies.

Worf, correctly gets reassigned to a useful position and gets himself an attached command as the technical captain of the Defiant.

Riker should have his own command. Hell in basically every alternate reality we see in TNG, if Picard dies, Starfleet was more than happy to just promote Riker and give him the Enterprise. Him still being a commander in First Contact is just plain silly.

Picard should probably just be given a flag officer rank and a new ship. Hell he can have the new Enterprise, but at this stage it's obvious that he's generally the one that takes charge during battles.

Data would be the obvious choice for new XO, and would make sense as a replacement for Riker.

La Forge and crusher are now probably 2 unparalleled experts in their respective fields, after years of solving unsolvable problems. I'd place them somewhere that they can put that knowledge to good use, rather than toiling away on a diplomatic cruiser.

Troi... I don't know... I guess she can stick with Riker or whatever. Not like she'll be doing anything useful anyway.

>>52272484
If anything, the Ferengi Alliance would hire them out

>>52272484
The Federation isn't known for outsourcing their work. At best, you'd get semi autonamous Navies for significant member worlds. The Andorian Imperial Guard still probably exists in some reduced manor. Similarly the Bajoran Military will exist for the first while after joining the Federation, with most of its senior officers getting automatic commissions into Starfleet.

>>52272313
>so the loss of experienced officers

Some experience.

A man whose is privy to ALL their defense plans is kidnapped by an enemy who can peel your brain like a fucking onion, but they refuse to change anything because "Picard tuff" or some such.

News flash from the past, idiots. Everyone eventually breaks Borg technology or not. We've known that for thousands of years and we plan for it occurring.

Got a hologram which can wipe out the Borg, a "lifeform" which has destroyed thousands of other sentient species. Sorry, can't use it 'cause our captive has a name.

Got a virus which can destroy the shapeshifters who've enslaved an entire quadrant and genetically engineered everyone there to be good little servants? Sorry, can't use it because the cop on one space station is a friend of ours.

Starfleet and the UFP DESERVE to lose, if only to punish their criminal stupidity.

>>52272484
The most that the Federation will allow private groups to do is handle freighters with only enough weaponry to defend themselves from raiders.

>>52272526
Picard should be ranked either Fleet Captain or Commodore. He's been in charge of fleets multiple times for various efforts and has, several times, made the decision if the Federation was going to enter the war (with the Romulans) or not. Keeping him Captain rank is almost an insult unless there's some kind of personal vendetta behind it (like that time he and Riker beamed down and murdered all the heads of Starfleet except one guy because of a parasite infection).

>>52272599
Nechayev is probably head of Personnel somehow.

>>52272599

It might just be the Kirk dilemma, where he by all rights should be an admiral, but resists promotion because he still likes to actually get shit done.

>>52272599
Picard is captain because he keeps turning down promotions himself, and that started in the very first season of TNG.

>>52272650
Weeell, Picard being offered a seat at Starfleet Academy was part of that bug conspiracy and he had only been in the Captain seat for less than a year. Keep in mind, between the loss of the Stargazer and him getting the D, Picard had been sitting behind a desk. Anyways, Fleet Captain and Commodores get to keep their ships still.

>>52272702
I don't think Fleet Captain and Commodore exist in the TNG era, mirroring real life. Admiralty means getting a desk job, and Picard is perfectly capable of organizing task forces in crisis situations without needing a shiny new rank to go with it.

>>52272882
Seems like having a clear progression of authority would be important for the chain of command during battles. If everybody is a captain then what's to stop ships from operating under wildly divergent strategies.

>>52272882
They exist, and the costuming department had different pip styles for each, but since the writing staff was lazy, everyone in charge of more than one ship was automatically an admiral.

>>52273497
Same as in real-world militaries, if there's no clear IC and 2IC then it goes by seniority. It's not stated in canon when exactly Picard was promoted to the actual rank of Captain, but by the time of Nemesis he had been captain by either rank or position for 46 years. And besides, Picard takes command of the fleet in First Contact after the admiral's flagship was destroyed, nobody questions that, and everyone follows his orders.

>>52274042
I always thought that Picard was a very famous and well respected captain in starfleet. So that's why no one questions him when he takes over the fleet in First Contact.

>>52274042
It works in First Contact for 2 reasons.

1: It's Captain Picard. There isn't an officer in all of Starfleet that isn't aware of who he is and what he's good at.

2: He's commanding the Starfleet Flagship. I know that the term is bandied about a lot in science fiction. But it would be reasonable to assume that once the standard chain of command is broken, operational control should fall to a flag ship.

Now lets say it's the 3rd battle of bumblefuck-nowhere during the dominion war. Admiral Gorky has been killed, inadvertently foiling a Romulan plot to take control of the Federation from within, and now there's a bunch of captains with no clear idea what to do. Lets assume that they don't all have access to each other's service records on the spot and can't immediately declare someone Fleet-Com, nor do they really have time for a conference call. Is it essentially just a case of waiting for someone to have the presence of mind to declare themselves Fleet-Com? Or is it just a free-for-all?

>>52274344
Not that anon, but Picard got famous and well respected because he's been around the block dozens of times in his career.

>>52274376
Fleet Captains in ST become that in one of two ways: The most forceful/willful captain says "I'm the fucking admiral now, ha ha ha." Or they confer and give it to the most senior/respected of those remaining.

>>52274427
>The most forceful/willful captain says "I'm the fucking admiral now, ha ha ha." Or they confer and give it to the most senior/respected of those remaining.

That seems woefully inefficient and unprofessional.

>>52274376
Ship computers do have up-to-date personnel records, so assuming a clear line of succession isn't put in place when the task force is formed, it can probably be automated.

>>52274678
>That seems woefully inefficient and unprofessional.

This is common in Starfleet, in keeping with its "la la la we're not REALLY a military" thumbtwaddling.

>>52272552
In the FASA canon, the blue fleet is a significant portion of Starfleet. Something like 40% of their fleet is Andorian warships with 95% Andorian crews loaded to the gills with Andorian missiles and nuclear torpedoes, who largely serve the interests of the technically no longer Andorian nobility commanding them.
They get a fleet because offering them founder status in the Federation and letting them keep their ships was a lot easier than finishing the war, for wither side.

>>52271781

>i hate fun

>>52274792
They pretend it's not a real military otherwise everyone above the rank of Cadet would be shot for incompetence and gross negligence.

>>52271938
>The engineering team had to set their phasers to shame to get him out of that predicament.

Beautiful

>>52275274
>vic fontaine
>fun

No you're right, what the show needed was a holographic Sinatra to sing to Worf and Nog whenever they got depressed. That really moved the story along in an engaging way.

>>52275522
Not him, but he did play a integral part in Odo and Kira's relationship and was part of some darn good character development for a lot of characters.

>>52274742
I agree that that's likely the best excuse. But I'm going to be pedantic, because fuck it.

If the command transfer is automated, across some sort of battle-net, then why did Picard have to expressly state that he was taking control of the fleet? That leaves 2 conclusions.

1: there's no battle-net and nobody in the assembled fleet was tapped to take command in the event that Fleet-Com went down. And that's pretty fucking ridiculous when you're fighting the borg. Meaning the only person that thought to put any sort of order on the Starfleet defence strategy is the dude that just arrived and may not have a clear idea of the situation. (Although I'm fairly sure Starfleets operational status at that point was "OH FUCK OH SHIT PLEASE NO")

2: there is a battle net that automatically allocates command to a ship in the fleet and Picard just up and superseded that on the principle that "he was right and rules are for nerds, anyway." Which means that whoever was actually in charge of the fleet just acquiesced to the guy that Admiral Whats-his-face just declared unfit to join the battle because it's possible, and in fact accurate, that the Borg still have some sort of neural connection with him.

>>52275685
Everything he did could just as easily been done by Quark. He had no unique contribution and was essentially the result of an executive cash in on the Sinatra-revival craze of the early 90s.

His presence was out of place and unnecessary. Gluing him onto a few important character pieces doesn't change that.

>>52275761
More likely the Enterprise wasn't considered part of the task force when it was organized. Picard took command of the fleet when the Enterprise joined the fight.

>>52275846
That would leave the system open to rapid and repeated command changes as reinforcements arrive.

Generally speaking, it's preferable for 1 person to retain command for as long as possible without changing as newcomers decide to wildly switch tactics.

It turns out that Picard did have a useful insight into defeating the borg, but that doesn't justify always giving fleet control to someone that just arrived when they may not even fully grasp the situation.

>>52275810
So much this. It's especially ridiculous when you consider that they got an actual, trained counselor around the same time.

>>52275997
>That would leave the system open to rapid and repeated command changes as reinforcements arrive.
Only if the reinforcements are commanded by someone with higher authority or seniority.

>>52275761
Probably the first option. Seems like everybody else was just nope-ing the fuck out by then. Not to mention that there's never been any mention of any sort of automated battle-net.

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>>52270799
>all the resisting Bajoran sex slaves seemed like they were madly in love with the Cardies, to the Cardies
No wonder the spoonheads had such hasperat fever.

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>>52277331
>>52277331
>>52277331

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>>52272484
Given how absolutely disgusted everyone was with Quark merely selling weapons (even Dax, and she's really open minded about stuff), I doubt that's much of a thing. That being said, I also doubt the Federation would do anything to stop it. There are a lot of aggressive species in the Federation, and not all could use being in Starfleet as an outlet for that (for example, I'm sure there are Andorians out being mercs somewhere). That being said, I don't doubt Starfleet would stomp it out at the first sign of getting out of line (because Starfleet loves stomping on Federation citizens that get out of line).
That would actually be a pretty decent RP opportunity: the party is a Federation-based merc company, flying a small ship (remember, even a runabout carries nuke-tier weapons as standard issue), doing their merc thing, but trying to stay within the lines so someone doesn't start crying to Starfleet about the big mean mercenaries being evil and oppressive and stuff (or even being on the run from Starfleet after such a thing happens, having to prove your innocence if applicable).

>>52275997
I imagine Picard was also deliberately not exposed to their actual battle plan due to the aforementioned borg shit still in his goddamn brain. But given that said plan was completely fugged by the time he arrived, the remaining ships were probably very willing to give his idea a try.

Especially since Picard is one of if not the ONLY captain(s) with history for fucking with the borg and surviving.