/dcg/ Dropzone/Dropfleet Commander General

Reminder that you're supposed to BUMP at page 9 or 10, Euroanons.
Americans can't keep the thread alive at 5 am.

>>52208197

Well, I might have. But coffee. And those asshole municipal snow blowers blocked my driveway when I wasn't looking and it turned into an ice-wall overnight.

Question to get the thread rolling again;
When do you think admiral command cards will be released? Are you hype for them?

>>52209047

Not soon enough and I'm hype; I have the feeling formulaic games rewarding dropship spam will instantly become a faint bad memory.

Can confirm my flgs received preorder details today.

£20 per blister, 6 in a blister, and I think they're coming the ending of March.

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>>52209886

>booya

>>52209886
>time to eradicate the strike cruiser menace

>>52210119
>mfw both the UCM and the Resistant are equally mad max

>>52210653
Generic humans are fucking crazy. When the Scourge, Shaltari, or PHR would say something is impossible, UCM/Resistance say "Bitch, hold my drink"

>>52209886
Yes. Yes. This pleases me.

BCs when?

>>52211202
Summer hopefully.

>bob ross
Hawk is a bunch of filthy memers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0VsHx_-adM

Last thread I asked about official alternate paint schemes, and was pointed to the DZC core rulebook.

Maybe it's because I'm functionally retarded, but I cannot find which scan has the alternate schemes. Can someone assist?

>>52213092
Check the DZC rules, units, errata, etc link in the OP

DZC > Core Rules > Core Rules > v1.1 Fluff

>>52213092
core rulebook has them after each race's lineup and unit roster. Kinda like how a GW codex was laid out back in 4th ed

>>52213379
Thank you anon.

>>52209047
>admirals cost the same between factions
>UCM actually has good cards, and probably everyone else does as well
I don't want to jinx it, but it seems like the command card system from DZC done well.

>>52215120
I'm still eager to see the exact wording on that "attack twice with a burnthrough weapon" card.

>yfw it effects an entire group
>double tapping 3Cairo

>>52215176
I really doubt that. No hopes or dreams allowed.

I just wonder if St Pete will be able to double tap with both its lasers. That would be interesting.

>>52215291
>st pete double taps WF on a Heracles
>brings it from 22 to 0
>resulting 6" 6 damage distortion bubble wipes frigate escorts
I need this to happen,

Anyone know how and where to find groups? Really wanna demo dropzone commander.

So, as is customary in this thread, I was thinking of ways to fix the PHR heavy broadsides, and I thought of something.

What if, instead of messing with their overall damage, they got something more for utility? I figure that, with those huge ass optics and gimbals, they ought be pretty good at aiming.

>Accurate
>due to the powerful optics and sensors paired with them, these weapons are able to efficiently maintain target lock with enemy ships at wildly different altitudes and orbital vectors, along with targets obscured by orbital debris.
This weapon does not suffer lock penalty for targets on separate orbital layers (atmospheric penalties apply as normal) or from firing through debris clouds.


OR

>Long-Range (X)
>whether by some combination of in-transit course change, extremely powerful scanners, extremely powerful delivery systems, or something else entirely, these weapons are able to accurately target enemy vessels beyond what would be expected in normal combat situations.
The range of this weapon is equivalent to the attacking ships scan value, plus the target ship's signature value, plus X".

OR (and this is just a stupid one)

>Penetrating
>extremely powerful and damaging munitions allow for these weapons to harm enemy systems far more than what would normally be possible for weapons of their caliber.
If a target ship would take a critical hit from this weapon AND suffer at least one point of unsaved hull damage, that target ship rolls on the crippling table with a -1 penalty to its rolls (to a minimum roll of 1). If a crippling effect would have that ship take damage, it takes one less damage instead.

>>52216134
Show up at LGS
set up models
???

>>52216596
>with a -1 penalty
Well, "penalty" is the wrong word, but you get the idea.

>>52216596
I actually really like Long-Range. Not sure I'd give it to just any old PHR ship, but it'd be pretty cool on select PHR and Shaltari ships.

I'd change the wording to this though:
>Long-Range (X)
>through the use of extremely powerful dedicated scanners, these weapons are able to accurately target enemy vessels beyond what would be expected in normal combat situations.
For the purpose of determining if a ship is in range of this weapon, add X to the firing ship's scan value.

>>52216808
That was my first draft, actually, but I figured the current wording is less ambiguous. That version could possibly allow for some rules lawyering to increase the range of other weapon systems. Since all weapons choose targets simultaneously, bad wording could be used to help non Long-Range weapons.

I could see it being written as the following, though:

When checking detection range and firing arc for this weapon, the scan value of the attacking ship is considered to be increased by X" only for that purpose.

>I actually really like Long-Range. Not sure I'd give it to just any old PHR ship, but it'd be pretty cool on select PHR and Shaltari ships.
Agreed, which is why it'd only be on the Perseus, Achilles, and BB's (and only on their heavy caliber guns)

>>52216596
>So, as is customary in this thread, I was thinking of ways to fix the PHR heavy broadsides, and I thought of something.

I think... that I'd like to see your ideas on fixing the Jade.

>>52216947
The phrase "for the purpose of" pretty much shuts down any use that isn't specific to that weapon.

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fucking hummies

>>52217169
The Jade is simple enough, along with all other particle weapons. Universal 2+ lock.
Jade and Granite are still have less average damage overall, simply by virtue of missing every once in a while, but their max/likely damage is equivalent to the average damage of comparable weapons.

I'd also reduce the Jade to about 39-41 points, and the Topaz to 43-45.

I'd also give the Adamant/Ruby linked lances, rather than a lance pair.

>>52217267
True enough, but I figure that it pays to be extremely precise with rules, since Hawk's wording is nowhere near as watertight as, say, MtG.

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>>52217366
At least we aren't a gritty reboot of an autistic cartoon

>>52217395
>The Jade is simple enough, along with all other particle weapons. Universal 2+ lock.
>I'd also reduce the Jade to about 39-41 points

I don't think that does it.

>>52217515
It really does, honestly. The Topaz (and Toulon and Harpy) only do about an average of 1 damage against 4+ armor.

The (2+) Jade would universally do .833 damage on average, and while this is less over an arbitrarily large number of games, it has the least chance out of any combat frigate to outright whiff and do 0 damage.

This fits the Jade in with the intended roll of the particle lances, lower damage, but extremely consistent. Coupled with a reduced cost (approaching but not equal to the Toulon), wolfpacks of Jades would become exceedinly efficient and usefull frigate-killers, as well as allowing you to spread your heavier firepower around rather than wasting it on wounded ships, since (2+ lock) Jades would be all but guranteed to do that damage.

>>52217515

What the Jade needs is burnthrough-2.

>>52217596

The problem with the Jade right now is that wolfpacks of Jades are irrelevant to cruisers.

>>52217613
They're not supposed to be; two Jades are an effectively guaranteed crippling against any given frigate, as well as being efficient clean-up.

They're for if your opponent has two or three cruisers drifting around that are one or two points of damage away from being crippled or destroyed. They're supposed to be consistent, easy damage that you can apply without worry, for if your other damage doesn't do quite enough, so that you don't overkill.

>>52217597
I would rather not set that kind of precedent on particle lances, honestly. It'd also blur the differentiation the Shaltari have with the other races, in that they have no burnthrough whatsoever.

>>52217515
It's more reliable than the Topaz at the cost of average damage, and is cheaper. That helps it finish fools off or smack frigates.

Though perhaps the Topaz comparison isn't the best since Topazes aren't that good either. That's more down to a lack of purpose than anything else though.

>>52217664
>They're not supposed to be; two Jades are an effectively guaranteed crippling against any given frigate, as well as being efficient clean-up.

Their gimmik is only a premium against the PHR, and there they don't do enough damage. As anti-frigate frigates they are unwieldy and very overcosted- a Topaz does it better and easier. Low damage granularity is crippling them, if "1.5" damage existed, they'd be passable. "1"- they actually suck, and that's why they suck.

>>52217683
Personally, I just think the Topaz is too expensive as well. Damage wise, it's equal to both the Toulon and the Harpy, but with worse arcs and much better range. I'd drop it down to 40-42, around the Harpy's range, and make the Jade somewhere around the Toulon or Lima. Maybe 36 to 38 points? This is with the 2+ lock buff, however.

>>52217702
You're thinking of them in terms of single ships, anon, not in terms of of 2, 3, or 4 of them working together.

Additionally, we're not talking about them as they are NOW, but as they ought BE, along with the 2+ lock buff. With that, as well as a points reduction, they end up serving a unique function that no other faction has. Efficient, consistent, cheap light damage that frees up their bigger guns for more worthy targets.

>Low damage granularity is crippling them, if "1.5" damage existed, they'd be passable. "1"- they actually suck, and that's why they suck.
That's why they suck *now*, and it may actually end up being their strength if they are improved as has been discussed.

Also, you could technically give them D2 damage per attack, but that'd go against the entire ethos of Shaltari design.
Also, there's no precedent for variable damage on a weapon, yet.

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So when are the resistance going to complete their space-battle bus program and join us in DFZ?

>>52217804
Nah, Resistance space presence will involve loading old shuttles and not!Saturn V's with high explosives and shooting them into capital ships from below.

>>52217804

>You'll never play a fleet of old school ships from a grander age accompanied by jury rigged vessels and small suicide ships.

Kill me.

>>52217712
Harpies and Toulons work because they have a defined role within their faction: They flank, and Toulons can additionally provide cheap supplementary firepower. A Topaz doesn't have the arcs for flanking and is too expensive to be used as cheap firepower. Hell, an Amber is a better candidate for flanking than Topazes since the unshielded signature difference is minimal and Ambers can shoot in side arcs. Topaz doesn't need to compete with other factions' gun cruisers, it needs to compete with other Shaltari things.

>>52217910
>other factions' gun cruisers
*gun frigates

>>52217910
Anon, that's the point of what this entire discussion has been about. We're not talking about why they're bad now, we already know they're bad, there's no reason to further reiterate it.

Unfortunately, there's really nothing you can do to Topazes besides reducing their price; their design is, plain and simple direct forward firepower, and their arcs is necessitated by their model.

There are two things I can think of that can be done to the Topaz:
A) Give it (and every other frigate, possibly including void gates) the vectored rule, simply to help out with its arcs and allow for some degree of flanking.
Or
B) Give it 3 attacks.

I do not like B, as I don't think the Shaltari are deserving of a frigate that's outfitted with something that's almost a full cruiser level gun.

Points reductions are included in both options, since it just really shouldn't be that expensive.

>>52217979
Has the possibility that these pricings are meta-balance?
Like, given the Shaltari's *other* options, the capacity of the topaz as a flanker is deliberately expensive to keep their strategic options in check (or at least deliberately weighted)?

>>52218088
I think the other anon's point was that the Topaz is not a flanker in any capacity, and that roll was filled by the Amber/Onyx.

>>52217750
>You're thinking of them in terms of single ships, anon, not in terms of of 2, 3, or 4 of them working together.

No, I've only been thinking in hunter-killer groups. Contemplating a single Jade is to weep- and a hunter-killer group of Jades SR-blitzing can be safely *ignored* by any cruiser in the game and a PHR frigate if it feels like it's having a good day.

It's probably the Granite's fault, a 45 point Jade is on the 2-damage particle weapon continuum. It handles standard orders so well as to make the the Granite overtly points, not that the current situation is getting people to take Granites.

>>52218288
You're missing the second point, where I put forward that groups of Jades aren't supposed to go after full-heath cruisers.
The purpose of them (or at least the intended purpose) has always been limited but consistent damage for the purposes of picking off other frigates or wounded ships. Sometimes you just really want one or two damage on something, and don't want to worry about the percentages of getting that 1 or 2 damage.

Giving all particle weapons a universal 2+ lock will fix the Granite as well (maybe with a points reduction to ~95-99 if it REALLY needs it), the same with the Jade and its own points reduction, will solve all of their issues.

The Jade (and the Granite, to an extent) is unique among all ships is that it's not supposed to be an alpha-strike "kill big shit" kind of ship. It's supplemental, consistent firepower for cleaning up near-dead or near-crippled ships, and giving it 2+ lock is pretty much the only way to go about it.

>>52218371
>You're missing the second point, where I put forward that groups of Jades aren't supposed to go after full-heath cruisers.

That part sounds like sour grapes- a maxed out group not having a mathmatical possibility of crippling anything strategy 5 or better? "It isn't supposed to be doing that anyway" rings hollow. Presenting it as support only is more of the same thing- can't stand on its own, can't fight most those things even in a maxxed-out swarm, narrow arc, and its weight in any other ship taken gets the job done just as well.

There's a ton of cheaper and easier ways to kill frigates. Topazes for one. Amethysts for two. Both those can also fight cruisers well enough to be noticed. Jade's a thorough failure.

>That feeling when there's no DZC/DFC scene in your area
>That feeling when you really wanna demo the games out but your friends don't seem interested in it.

I've lost all hope. Might just have to start the scene myself. Or hope to god someone from my area frequents the hawk forums.

>>52219045
Firstly, you are taking into account the changes proposed to the Jade, correct? 2+ lock and points reduction? You're not talking about the Jade as is?

Secondly, a Topaz isn't -that- much better at killing frigates than a Jade is. In terms of raw probability distribution, it's not all that more powerful.

Thirdly, and most importantly, the Amethyst (and to a lesser degree, the Topaz) have the VERY easy potential to overkill frigates. It's important to maximize the amount of meaningful damage you do to targets, and the (updated, need I remind you) Jade would provide an exceedingly cheap, exceedingly consistent platform to put out singular points of damage on targets that don't warrant full weapons.

You keep applying the Jade to the role of "direct frontline damage" like a normal gunfrigate or the Pandora, when it's not. It's cleanup. It's auxiliary. It's something you take two of to make sure that, in case your actual damage dealers come just short of what you need, you have some form of insurance to kill that ship on its last few hull points, to ensure that it can't activate again.

>>52219621
>the Amethyst (and to a lesser degree, the Topaz) have the VERY easy potential to overkill frigates
1 Amethyst per target or 2 Topazes per target works pretty well. Even if the Amethyst rolls poorly and only gets 3 attacks, that's still a 50% chance to get the required damage which is better than nothing.

You seem scared of overkill but remember that underkill is the far greater threat. I'd much rather deal too much damage than not enough.

>It's something you take two of to make sure that, in case your actual damage dealers come just short of what you need, you have some form of insurance to kill that ship on its last few hull points, to ensure that it can't activate again.
The problem there is that you could take 2 Topazes instead for just a few points more, and they'd be almost as reliable for cleanup while also being able to dish out reasonable damage. By my calculations Jades can have almost 10% more reliability than Topazes against 3+ targets, which isn't too shabby, but against anything else they're basically the same. So maybe against PHR they'd be okay?

Shields are a different issue altogether. Fixed Jade would be a decent choice against other Shaltari because not having your damage halved by crit-ignoring fuckery is a big deal.

>>52220078
>You seem scared of overkill but remember that underkill is the far greater threat. I'd much rather deal too much damage than not enough.
I mean, there's not much risk of underkill on a 2+ lock 1 attack 1 damage weapon. It's either 0 damage 1/6 of the time or 1 damage 5/6 of the time, no in between.

They're technically more likely to do at least 1 damage against anything than the Topaz, but the Topaz does have the occasional two damage.

>The problem there is that you could take 2 Topazes instead for just a few points more, and they'd be almost as reliable for cleanup while also being able to dish out reasonable damage.
That is true, but at the same time, it'd be an inefficient application of points.

I'd much rather take two fixed Jades and two fixed Topazes and save some points to fit in something else (maybe an Opal or a few extra voidgates) over four fixed Topazes, simply because using Topazes for the purposes of the Jades is a slight waste of their cost.

But hey, there is always special rules to give lances a slight edge over their competitors. Long-Rang as mentioned a couple dozen posts above, or perhaps Precise.

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Theorycrafting bump

Jade fix: "On Target" While an auto-critting weapon, if the die roll for the Jade's weapon would have been a crit otherwise, it deals two damage.

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>>52220078
>You seem scared of overkill but remember that underkill is the far greater threat. I'd much rather deal too much damage than not enough.

Fully aware of the implications, this is why I'm very much against breaking up the PHR light broadside into two weapons profiles. It's a shit idea Dave, championed by filthy optimists.

>>52223766
To be fair they might have a point there. Even I'll admit an average damage of 4 is a bit excessive against a single frigate.

Well, except PHR frigates. But they're just generally annoying fucks who enjoy being functionally twice as tough as everyone else's frigates.

>>52223854

And Shaltari. And then in out of the usual cases across orbital zones an atmospheric fishing.

"Kill a frigate, pretty reliably, across the bell curve even at the nether end, on a standard order" is a whole lot better than "maybe kill, maybe nothing" on a standard order. Weapons-free, there's other ships for that (or there *should* be, it's not my fault they Orpheus-spam) and they aren't bringing light broadsides. They should leave well enough alone.

>>52223967
Shaltari if shields are up, but a lot of the time they aren't. 75% chance for two kills against unshielded Shaltari and Scourge is pretty good, 65% against UCM a bit less so but still solid. Against high priority targets like Opals or Limas it's better to focus fire and evaporate the threat immediately, but there are situations where a 75% chance to take out 2 threats is better than a 95% chance to remove 1. Bringing down 1 out of 4 Djinns won't do shit to protect you when the rest are still coming. Unless you've got 4 broadsides trained on them or get really lucky with explosion chaining, you're still going to get fucked by those remaining 3 Djinns. Taking out 2 at a time halves the investment required, and your odds are still good.

6 4+ lock shots gets the job done against frigates. If it didn't then my Toulons would be unusable, because they're usually on frigate hunting duty and that's what they have to work with.

>>52224233

>>52224233

Light Broadside isn't stress-tested against Toulons; it is stress-tested against shielded Shaltari and the like. Over-commitment against some threats is better than reducing the range of capabilities to optimize against those specific threats (and even there the horror-story is coming up just short on two targets). 1 Cruiser/1 Standard Order/1 dead frigate/near-enough-always is a great thing to have and it would be unwise to exchange it for something else that can be reproduced using other means.

Breaking up the broadside and making the two banks linked is fine, but reducing the dice that can be put out on a standard order is throwing away something good (certain work being done on a standard order, which is valuable beyond all calculation- literally, going by the state of list design) to appease theorycraft.

>>52224424
That's why you link the batteries together so they can fire together. That way the Ajax is capable of focusing fire on a single tough frigate or splitting fire against two weak ones. Nobody is suggesting that the batteries not be linked (or if some people are I'm not one of them)

Also imo Orpheus should not have split fire. Orpheus has more than enough nice things already, to the point where nice things should actively be taken away from it.

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>>52223766
I do love the look of the Echo.

>>52223766
>>52223967
But anon, splitting the broadside into two linked batteries doesn't mean you need to use only one battery per target. You can still use both against one target, but now there's the option to split fire if desired.

I don't think anyone ever put forward the idea to split the broadsides without linking the resultant batteries.

>>52224424
>Breaking up the broadside and making the two banks linked is fine, but reducing the dice that can be put out on a standard order is throwing away something good (certain work being done on a standard order, which is valuable beyond all calculation- literally, going by the state of list design) to appease theorycraft.
I don't think it's ever been said to not give split broadsides linked; the idea is to standardize all PHR cruisers in that they can all engage up to two targets per standard firing, in the same way that the Theseus and Perseus can, with weapons free being to get their other side working.

There's a lot more fancy stuff that could be done in regards to multiple links between weapon hardpoints, but that's the basics of it.

>>52224522
>Also imo Orpheus should not have split fire. Orpheus has more than enough nice things already, to the point where nice things should actively be taken away from it.
Nah, that goes against the design structure that Hawk set up. No arbitrary stat changes that aren't reflected by the model.

That said, due to the fact that PHR troopships are literally heavy cruisers with troop capacity, I have a simple solution. Make them heavy tonnage with a corresponding points increase.

Now PHR players have to make a very real choice between taking Bellerophons and taking Orpheusii. It does make them far more capable at holding critical locations, but that's not much of an issue in my mind anyways.

Does anyone have some Samurai on hand? I'm wondering how big they are compared to regular Shaltari infantry for the purpose of using them as Dropfleet asset markers.

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>>52228521
Here you go. They're not terribly large.

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>>52228645
>that gold
Nice. Could use some shading, but it's Aztec as fuck.

>>52228645
Give them some shading, turquoise, maybe some red, and they'd look choice as hell, anon.

How tall are Samurai, if Braves are 8 feet tall? They must be at least 16, nearly two stories even.

>mfw the Shaltari do traditional mecha better than the PHR
>mfw I have no suitable hedgehog reaction face

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>>52229003
You're not wrong.

>>52228037
>That said, due to the fact that PHR troopships are literally heavy cruisers with troop capacity, I have a simple solution. Make them heavy tonnage with a corresponding points increase.
I've thought of that, and I think it creates worse problems than it solves. Access to heavy tonnage ships is much more limited than medium tonnage.

>>52229562
That's entirely the point, anon. The PHR has access to exactly four heavy slots at clash sized games, and it'll certainly put a spanner in the works for some of the hyper-efficient meta lists.

There's literally no problem with it, as it either cuts down on Bell spam, or it cuts down on Orph spam, or it forces a balance between the two.

It plays into the fluff of the PHR being a highly-elite army that rarely deploys infantry en masse, which is why their troopships would be so limited (and why' they'd take so many Strike Carriers to compensate)

The main issue with this is that it gives even MORE competition to the Hector and Achilles, but they aren't picked anyways so it's not that much of an issue.

>>52229675


You're full of shit, anon. Hostile biased feedback kinds of shit.

>PHR troopships are armed like cruisers, not heavy cruisers. They don't interact with Heavies in list design at all, much less compete with them in roll- they can't do any of the things heavies can do, there is no intersect- they are 1 thrust slower regular cruisers with two extra hull points at a 33% markup. If you make the PHR bulk lander choice take heavy slots, the PHR heavy role is strangled at all levels of play (no BCs properly run in Skirmish should have been obvious- 10 inch thrust linebreaker shackled to a 7-thrust cluster-loiterer? Leonidas will never get a Weapons Free while using its mobility to proper extent). The fluff is they're the people that bothered to design and build the things, and the UCM thinks there is something to it.

>but it serves you fucking right if this happens and then the PHR gets an optimized carrier as a Line choice

And there are more intellectually honest ways to say "I want the PHR to have half as many heavy slots at all levels of play".

>>52230759
No need to be vitriolic, anon. This is an anonynous thread and it's not like any of these suggestions will really hit Hawk's ears (unless they lurk here), so there's no reason to get nasty about things.
The PHR troopship statline is IDENTICAL to their heavy cruisers in every way.
If their troopships were reduced to a normal cruiser statline, I'd agree with you. As it is now they're budget heavy cruisers (since PHR cruisers and heavy cruisers barely differ except in a single weapon slot, their difference mostly being hull stats) that provide a necessary role to the fleet. Them getting cruiser-level firepower is good; them getting heavy-cruiser-level survivability is good; them getting both is fucking insane.

>>52230759
>>52230942
>And there are more intellectually honest ways to say "I want the PHR to have half as many heavy slots at all levels of play".
I also outright said as much in my post, I wasn't trying to obscure that implication.

>>52228037
>Nah, that goes against the design structure that Hawk set up. No arbitrary stat changes that aren't reflected by the model.
Not arbitrary. Ajax, Theseus and Perseus all specifically mention the ability to split fire and there is no specific piece on the latter two to represent that, so it can be safely assumed that having 2 independent targeting systems for each broadside does not change the look of the ship.

Orph just needs a price bump to 155 or so. That would probably stop them being spammed so much, but they'd still be used and it wouldn't require any awkward changes.

>>52231368
Even still, giving just the Ajax (along with the Theseus and Perseus) it feels a bit strange, as the model ought have precedence over both the fluff and crunch. Not to mention it's just a good idea in general for the PHR as a whole, and it'd do a lot to make broadsides more palatable as an actual choice.

I would agree with that price change, the both of the troopships fitting in somewhere between 145-155.

Alternately, they could just be given a normal cruiser statline and kept at their current prices.

>>52231546
>the model ought have precedence over both the fluff and crunch
Except the model is setting no precedent whatsoever. The guns are the same except when they're different, there is nothing on the models to represent what can split fire and what can't. That's where the fluff steps in.
Universal split fire wouldn't help the Orion/Achilles/Hector all that much anyway, since medium and heavy batteries aren't very good on their own. It would just help the Orpheus, and the last thing it needs is more help.

>>52231750
>Universal split fire wouldn't help the Orion/Achilles/Hector all that much anyway
More granular fire is never a bad thing, anon. Like has been said before, overkilling on already wounded targets is an extremely inefficient situation. The PHR being able to split fire to pick off wounded ships is a good thing.

>Except the model is setting no precedent whatsoever.
Exactly, which is why it's strange that only the Ajax would be the only full-broadside ship to get split fire. The fluff ought reflect the model, and there's no difference between the Ajax and the Orion (for example) that shows this.

>>52228645
Two questions for you:
How did you paint that delicious gold basecoat, and what can you tell me about the performance of heavy warsuits on the table?

>>52232079
There's also no difference between the Orion and Perseus to show this, aside from having different varieties of gun. From a gameplay standpoint it's obvious that different guns would be different profiles, but there's nothing on the models to show whether or not a ship has independent targeting. As far as the models are concerned it's completely arbitrary. And so we move on to the fluff, which states that Theseus, Perseus and Ajax all have 2 targeting systems per broadside. This implies that such things are not standard on most cruisers.

>>52232705
It tells us that batteries have the potential to independently target, regardless of their type.
Secondly, there's no reason why the fluff can't be changed. Regardless of what it IS, I'm saying that it's strange and arbitrary for it to be limited to the Ajax, and that there are tangible (and not overpowered benefits) for extending it to the Orion, Hector, Achilles, and for the sake of consistency, the Orpheus.

There are lots of things both right and wrong with the PHR, and changes would have to be made concurrently.

>but there's nothing on the models to show whether or not a ship has independent targeting.
Right, except for the weapons, which is why if the Ajax gets it, all ships get it. I don't see what the resistance to this is for, as it's not an overwhelming buff to the non-lights, and it would go well with the proposed points increase to the Orpheus.

> As far as the models are concerned it's completely arbitrary.
And this is very, very bad. There ought be consistency between the rules and models; visible indicators that correlate directly to the rules. Hawk has always been very WYSIWYG, and this applies even more so to DFC.

>>52233403
I honestly don't care if Hawk splits fire for Orion, Hector, etc, it might encroach a bit on the real frigate hunters like Ajax and Theseus but not enough to worry about. I just don't think they'd be likely to do that, they've made it clear that split fire is something special rather than standard issue for all ships.

I'd be more hesitant to give it to Orpheus simply because split fire is
1: So powerful, troopships are one of the most common targets for CAW frigate teams in my experience. Being able to slaughter them with such incredible efficiency could be a bit much.
2: Something that the Ajax could use to make it more distinct from the Orpheus. Even if you're paying 50 points rather than 30 to upgrade it, the troops an Orpheus provides are almost always worth it.

>And this is very, very bad. There ought be consistency between the rules and models; visible indicators that correlate directly to the rules.
You seem to be making a bigger deal out of this than you need to. I see only two reasons to be concerned about the inconsistency, either fluff (targeting computers are internal) or rules confusion (one ship having split broadsides while all others don't isn't much to remember)

What the fuck is a type 6 and type 7 grand walker? Also why does the sound of them get me hard?

>>52234890
No idea yet, but presumably something much, much larger than an Aegis defense laser.
And because GIANT MECHA.

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>>52234931

>Larger than the defense laser

Be still my beating heart there was a reason I chose PHR.

>>52234890
Big thing. Will probably not get a model in any game for a long time, if ever.

There's also confirmed type 5 walkers as well as UCM Osprey dropships and Scourge Executioner hovertanks. No hints for Shaltari from what I can recall.

>>52234931
They're both delivered via bulk lander, so it can't be that much larger. Still pretty fucking big though.

>>52234992
>large-scale UCM dropship
I don't even know what she looks like, but I love her already.

Aight lads, my fleet is nearing completion, and that means I need to get autistic as all hell and give my ships names names. What do you think?
>inb4 autism
I know.

>Vanguard battlegroup "Subtle Hammer"
Perth class battlecruiser "Judge and Jury"
Lima class frigate "Fire at Will"
Lima class frigate "Leyline"

>Vanguard battlegroup "Pub Crawlers"
Moscow class heavy cruiser "Taurus"
Toulon class frigate "Three's a Charm"
Toulon class frigate "David"
Toulon class frigate "Centurion"
Toulon class frigate "Lion's Thorn"

>Line battlegroup "Gambler's Fallacy"
New Cairo class light cruiser "Alea"
New Cairo class light cruiser "Iacta"
New Cairo class light cruiser "Est"

>Line battlegroup "Globe Trotters"
San Francisco class troopship "Greyhound"
New Orleans class strike carrier "Trojan"
New Orleans class strike carrier "Eclipse"
New Orleans class strike carrier "Crusader"
New Orleans class strike carrier "Hegemon"

>Pathfinder battlegroup "Island Hoppers"
New Orleans class strike carrier "Thule"
New Orleans class strike carrier "Cortez"

>Pathfinder battlegroup "Vagrants"
Santiago class corvette "Gunsway"
Santiago class corvette "Rapscallion"
Santiago class corvette "Anchor Cutter"

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>>52236955
Looks good to me mate, especially considering people have named their ships worse things. I had a /tg/ compiled list of ship names (got it a few years ago), but iirc it's on another hard drive. If the thread hasn't died by tomorrow I'll dig 'em up and post 'em for inspiration/free use.

As for mine, I'm being a normie and just using the name stickers. I've just finished putting together my first UCM starter fleet, and have painted a Moscow (Huntsman), Berlin (Aurora), and one of the New Orleans (Undaunted) so far. I'll also be posting that tomorrow when there is some better lighting.

>>52236770
It may be a Njord-style big combat dropship. That would be pretty hype. I'm hoping the Albatross actually gets made passable in combat at some point though. They're a complete joke against anything but basic bitch infantry sitting in the open.

>>52236955
Autism

The other two New Cairos are gonna be really embarrassed if one dies. Sunstar Iacta Est or Alea Iacta Big Toast doesn't work nearly as well.

But speaking of autism, I'm gonna post my fleet names when I find the list.

I'm thinking about buying a resistance army. Does this ship prepainted?

>>52238303
Is this an actual question or the ghost of an old meme come back to haunt us?

Either way; no

>>52228942
>>52229003
>>52232345
Those aren't mine, actually, I just snagged it from google for the anon who was curious.

I'm too shit to play Shaltari, no matter how much I try. Going full Mad Max with the Resistance is the only thing I've managed to do correctly in DZC.

If I had to guess, the gold is fairly bright, so he either based white, or brought it up from black with a bunch of coats. Also glossed the black bits as well, which is a nice effect. Could definitely use a wash too.

>>52238685
It's rather pale for a gold, to me it seems more like brass. Either way, a light brown wash would make them pop. If I had any idea how to play Shaltari I'd love to do a similar scheme.

Is it true the scourge didn't well... scourge a couple races cause they weren't worth the effort.

You think the ones they didn't eat will end up as factions? I don't even now what a new faction would be based around. Actual Bioweaponry that rivals the scourge? A actual robot faction? Aquamen?

>>52240050
If I were to take a guess at a 5th faction, I'd say that we're most likely to see the race responsible for the white sphere. I would also guess that this race would have some history with the shaltari and/or scourge and a reason for the PHR to not immediately ally with (like the sphere being a rogue ai).

Failing that, my next guess at a faction would indeed be the remnants of a race or races that were used by the scourge to the point of unsustainability or who eventually fought off the scourge. They could be seeking to ally with the humans against the scourge, but because of one part humanity fuck yeah, one part "slaves" to an ai, and about 15 parts fucking hedgehogs; no accord is ever reached.

>>52236955
Might as well do the same, I've been meaning to give the rest of my ships names.
>Pathfinder battlegroup "The Bastard's Flock"
Djinn - "Little Bastard"
Djinn - "Minor Disaster"
Djinn - "Cinderspawn"
Strix - "Stolas"
Strix - "Strigoi"

>Line battlegroup "Hellhives"
Hydra - "Vespid Swarm"
Chimera - "Whore of Olympus"

>Line battlegroup "Infernal Beacon"
Ifrit - "Flash Fire"
Harpy - "Carrion Crow"
Harpy - "Dirty Buzzard"
Harpy - "Vengeful"

>Pathfinder battlegroup "The Ferrymen"
Gargoyle - "The Boatman"
Gargoyle - "Styx Crossing"
Gargoyle - "It Got Away"
Gargoyle - "General's Lament"

Pathfinder battlegroup "Hogslayers"
Nickar Squadron - "Hoghunter", "Prison Shank", "Diamond Breaker"

Flag battlegroup "Lasting Devastation"
Dragon - "Gnawing Doom"
Shenlong - "A Quiet Murder"

>>52240258
I still think a shitty alien refugee fleet that's been barely scraping by for generations would be a good idea. They'd have a good reason to fight everybody, all it would take is the aliens getting a little too excited over seeing an inhabitable planet again and causing a massive diplomatic fuckfest by trying to land and getting into a fight with the local UCM.

>>52240575
Having them invade the UCM after they'd secured an advantage on the scourge would both balance things out, and vindicate the ball lickers saying not to kick off the reconquest, to be sure

>>52237267
Thanks anon, I'd appreciate seeing that list.

>>52237306
Nah anon, they'll just name the replacement Cairo after the destroyed one. "Alea II", for example.

>>52240390
Anon, the names are good, but you flag groups can only take a superheavy ship, a second superheavy, or a light group. A Shenlong can't fit in there.

>>52240663
Ah shit, you're right. I'll have to re-tool it. Probably swap the harpies and the shenlong then, which is how I usually run things.

>>52240575
>>52240258

An alien confederation would be pretty neat to see. Not much threat divided but a sum of their parts they're a worthy adversary to go up against any of the factions.

Whole reason why they're not joined up with the UCM is hedgehog meddling, robo-man fuckery, and a helping dose humanity fuck yeah

>>52236955
I like switching up my lists as much as possible so I haven't named any battlegroups.

Beijing class battleship "Killer Queen"
Moscow class heavy cruiser "Helter Skelter"
Rio class cruiser "Guns for Hire"
Berlin class cruiser "Violence of the Sun"
Berlin class cruiser "Slow Burn"
Madrid class cruiser "The Seeds of Love"
Madrid class cruiser "Powder Burns"
Seattle class fleet carrier "Aces High"
Seattle class fleet carrier "Bad Man"
San Francisco class troopship "Stairway to Heaven"
Toulon class frigate "Moonchild"
Toulon class frigate "Fortunate Son"
Taipei class missile frigate "Rebel Yell"
Taipei class missile frigate "A Farewell to Kings"
Taipei class missile frigate "Fistkick"
Taipei class missile frigate "Karma Police"
Jakarta class aegis frigate "Pretty Noose"
Jakarta class aegis frigate "This Charming Man"
Lima class frigate "Stormbringer"
Lima class frigate "Apocalypse Please"
New Orleans class strike carrier "Move to Memphis"
New Orleans class strike carrier "War Pigs"
New Orleans class strike carrier "Night Train"
New Orleans class strike carrier "Radio Friendly Unit Shifter"
New Orleans class strike carrier "Mark the Graves"
New Orleans class strike carrier "Riders on the Storm"

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>>52241289
>Killer Queen
>Stairway to Heaven
>Fortunate Son
>Rebel Yell
You have good taste, Anon
Also,
>Apocalypse Please

>>52236955
>>52241289
Well shit, all those song names struck me with inspiration.

I think I'll definitely renamed "Leyline" to be "Spirit of the Radio"

And one of the Nawlins will be called "It Ain't Me" :^)

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>>52240663
>>52237306
>>52237267
Here's the list. Not necessarily a good one, just assorted names pulled from an ancient /tg/ thread. The first ones are fairly generic/standard ship names, and as they go on they seem to get more 'creative'. Part 1 of 2 (I think)
>Two For Flinching, Seen King, In Decent Sea, Going Merry, Thousand Sunny, Thriller Bark, Salamander, Sexy Foxy, Shark Superb, Victory Hunter, Warspite, Renown, Repulse, Royal Oak, Royal Sovereign, Ark Royal, Harbinger, Illustrious, Courageous, Indefatigable, Hornet, Wasp, Ranger, Glorious, Furious, Hermes, Eagle, Unicorn, Indomitable, Formidable, Victorious, Implacable, Theseus, Colossus, Glory, Ocean, Triumph, Venerable, Vengeance, Perseus, Pioneer, Warrior, Majestic, Leviathan, Hercules, Magnificent, Powerful, Terrible, Dreadnaught, Bellephron, Temeraire, Superb, St. Vincent, Collingwood, Vangaurd, Neptune, Orion, Monarch, Conqueror, Thunderer, Audacious, Centurion, Ajax, Iron Duke, Valiant, Revenge, Resolution, Ramillies, Inflexible, Tiger, The Barn Owl, Spider's Tangled Web, Bloody Maria, Death's Grin, The Carnage, The Unknown Challenge, Bitter Fruit, Wasp's Love, Last Daughter, Killer Frost, Western Son, Congress of Corpses, 13, Thunder Blooms, Smoking Earth, Thread of Fate, Burning Bride, Dead to the World, Rabbit Hole, Nothing, Wild Ace, The Long Haul, Gul's Goliath, Her Bloody Kiss, Leap of Faith, Injustice Unbound, The Burnt Offering, Amelia's Assault, Stolen Steel, Beast of Burden, Bizarre Circumstances, Ambivalent World, Steady Hand, Her Lost Love, Dragon's Kin, Fortress Fortune, Rabid Wolf, The Hunt, Sweet Pain Powder and Ire, Rogue Knight, Greener Pastures, Winter Unending, Sister's Sins, Captain's Judgement, The Sharks of Man, Black Dog, Caged At Sea, Spirit in Chains, Rolling Die, Taxman, Berlin Dusk, Indian Summer, Not Suspicious, Under the Influence, Hardest Mile, Deliverance, Lumumba, Uprising, Bitch

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>>52242703
Part 2
>Crucial Omission, Maelstrom, Baby, Dead Men Tales, Scouring, Unsinkable II, Dagoth-Ur, Flaming Bolt, Iguana, Criminal Scum, Bricktop, Sunset Duel, Patria o Muerte, The Old Boys, Wit's End, Mass Momentum, Shoulder Of Orion, By Inferno's Light, Half A League Onward, Thunderchild, Off Armageddon Reef, Gather No Moss, Moonwalk, Right Back At You, Silently Into The Night, Lazarus Long, Sticks and Stones, Dragonfly, Sea Swallow, Stargazer, Tidebreak, Towards the Horizon, Speedwell, Swiftsure, Daring, Devastation, Gale, Typhoon, Thunderbolt, Damsel, Summer Moon, Torrent, DOOMWHALE, Maelstrom, Paladin, Defense, Danger, Dragon, Sprite, Speedy, Seagull,Foam,
Halberd, Kestrel, Colander, Heads or Tails, Yellow Dragon, Bechamel, Rambler, Interesting, Shipworm, Half-Merrow, Last Lap, Emperor's Worst, Old Tub, Oak Smoke, Pikeman, Hornet, Goblin King, Prosthetic Conscience, No More Mr Nice Guy, Screw Loose, Flexible Demeanor, Of Course I Still Love You, Little Rascal, Just Testing, Arbitrary, Credibility Problem, You'll Thank Me Later, It's Character Forming, Attitude Adjuster, Frank Exchange of Views, Serious Callers Only, I Blame My Mother, I Blame Your Mother, Full Refund Long View, Probable Cause, Wayward Wench, The Dashing Devil, The Inconspicuous, Bargain Barge, Brine Beauty, Sirens Whisper, Regina Pulchra , "Better Than Prison", Great White Wanderer, Glorious Porpoise, Poseidon's Bastard, The Shifty Seductress, HMS Fuck The Spanish, Forlorn Hope, Distant Dream, Wistful Walrus, The Sea Cow, An Honest Living, The Model of Modernity, Hostile Acquisition, The Aggressive Diplomat, The Drunken Drifter, The Captains Pride

Now, I'm going to go back to screaming while painting white around panel lines on UCM frigates

>>52242784
>Now, I'm going to go back to screaming while painting white around panel lines on UCM frigates

That's nothing

>forgot to put the type 4 spires in the center of my cruiser hulls before I glued the halves together
I'll never understand how people can like doing ships in bottles, this is hell.

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>>52242836
>spires
>center of cruiser hulls
>before gluing halves together
......
>we're not going to space today

>>52242908
>tfw don't even have small enough tweezers so I need to manipulate them using a toothpick wedged between the spires
HELP

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>>52243100
Admittedly, I had tweezers, but I was able to get them in with some light frustration by applying the superglue using the tip of a toothpick into the center first, placing the spire in at a 45ish degree angle to the spot, and then using a finger on that side to push in and the tweezers (or in your case, toothpick) to push down from the opposite side. The finger should help straighten it out while the toothpick drives it down into the hole

Do we have renders for the other corvette ships?

>>52244872
yes

>I am still waiting upon the 2 of each of the 4 types of Kickstarter Exclusive Battlecruisers and the missing turrets from 2 Atlantis class KSE Battlecruisers.
>You should have sent these to me well before now (they should have been in my original pledge deliveries). I think that there should be some compensation (how about one Battleship per week as some encouragement to get on with sorting things out as you have had many months to do this).

The gift that keeps on giving

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Bombardment memes incoming.
--------------------------------------
You See Ivan, When There Are No Cities, Xenos Can't Hold Them - 1241pts
UCM - 3 launch assets

>SR15 Flag battlegroup (220pts)
>1 x Tokyo - 220pts - S
> + UCM Captain (20pts, 2AV) (Admirals when)

>SR12 Vanguard battlegroup (233pts)
>1 x Moscow - 163pts - H
>2 x Toulon - 70pts - L
Feeling pretty good.

>SR12 Line battlegroup (284pts)
>2 x Berlin - 210pts - M
>2 x Lima - 74pts - L
The memes in me want to swap the Berlins for three Saratogas, but there's just no way to fit the points in.

.
>SR12 Line battlegroup (275pts)
>2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
>1 x Seattle - 132pts - M
>1 x Madrid - 79pts - M

>SR7 Pathfinder battlegroup (143pts)
>2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
>1 x Madrid - 79pts - M

>SR3 Pathfinder battlegroup (66pts)
>3 x Santiago - 66pts - L

These three are where I'm having trouble. I like the ships, but grouping-wise, I need some advice.
>Strike Carriers should be in separate groups for multiple activations
>preferably at least one low SR
>Corvettes should be low SR for similar reasons, as low as possible
>Madrids should be in different groups so that they can drop cosmic lovepats on different clusters if necessary
How do I reconcile those reasonably? This is the best I got right here.

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For those who are unaware (or are just lazy), faction corvettes
>UCM Santiago-class

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>>52244872
Yep; there's painted pics too, but I can't be assed to find them.

>>52246823
Nevermind, >>52246784 has them

>>52245441
>You should have sent these to me well before now (they should have been in my original pledge deliveries). I think that there should be some compensation (how about one Battleship per week as some encouragement to get on with sorting things out as you have had many months to do this).

They said this to you?

>>52247130
No senpai, I copy pasted a KS comment for shits and giggles

>>52247240
>>52245441
When did people become so entitled?

>>52247405
The thread has been asking that question for the past 4-5 months, anon.

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>>52246784
>>52246823
>Shaltari Glass-class
dipped out while waiting for the post timer and ended up having dinner

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And finally
>PHR Echo-class

>>52247787
>>52247902
These are beautiful

>>52247902
Do you have the pic of painted Nickars?

Taking interest in Dropfleet and wondering what typical point levels are played at.

>>52248782
600, 750, 1000, 1250, 1500, 2000

>>52248916
Thanks, I guess I could squeeze the PHR starter into 750-1000? Or am I completely off on point costs?

>>52249014
Yeah you're pretty off. You might reach 600 if you go for expensive stuff, but you pretty much need 2 starters for anything more than intro games.

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>>52248333
Aye

>>52249203
Alright, thanks again. I'll stick to starter games till I got a better grasp of them.

>>52249561
I thought those were googly eyes

>>52249561
>>52247902
>>52247787
>>52246784
When are these supposed to be released?

>>52245577
That's not even a meme list. It's just got some bombardment focus. Your meme game is weak.

--------------------------------------
Partly cloudy with chance of EXPLOSIONS - 1239pts
UCM - 0 launch assets

SR17 Flag battlegroup (284pts)
1 x Tokyo - 220pts - S
+ UCM Captain (20pts, 2AV)
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L

SR12 Line battlegroup (250pts)
2 x New Cairo - 176pts - M
2 x Lima - 74pts - L

SR15 Line battlegroup (263pts)
2 x Madrid - 158pts - M
1 x Rio - 105pts - M

SR12 Line battlegroup (228pts)
2 x Madrid - 158pts - M
2 x Toulon - 70pts - L

SR4 Pathfinder battlegroup (128pts)
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L

SR3 Pathfinder battlegroup (66pts)
3 x Santiago - 66pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

You don't need to split up your Madrids. Being able to annihilate a commercial sector in a turn is pretty sweet, and you rarely need to engage more than 2 clustersn at once.

Okay gang, how would one fix the Taranis? It's always been bad, but the release of the Thor truly brings to the forefront how completely fucking terrible it is.

>>52249780
Iirc they're supposed to be out either later this month or in April

>>52251344
As far as I can see, there's two ways to preserve the missile fluff while buffing the poor thing:
>Extra shots
>A greater-than-zero MF value

But I'm not sure either of those solve the problem of being stuck on short range anti-building or anti-exposed infantry duty.

>>52251344
I don't actually play Dropzone (just Dropfleet) so just pulling ideas out of my ass, but after looking over the stats ... maybe merge the two shot types and make it E6 or 7? Makes it a better anti-building or anti-infantry piece when compared to the Thor (unless I'm misunderstanding the Barrage rule).

>>52253064
Many of the most important buildings are A8. So E6 wouldn't even touch them and E7 would usually whiff. And with the D3 demo + area combination you could reach 12 damage in a single shot against smaller buildings. Something that effective but simultaneously ineffective at demo would be very strange, and not really in a good way.

>>52249561
The nickar is adorable, I have to say.

>>52252517
how is it gonna be short ranged on either? Most infantry lack CM, as do buildings, so wouldn't it's range be infinite?

>>52253213
give it a higher demo value, change the anti infantry weapon to a barrage weapon maybe, right now it doesnt even compete with Enyo's for Demo, and its way to expensive for Anti infantry

>that rules update
>diamond only cripples on a 4,5,6
>glass is CAW
AHAHAHAHAHAAH
SHALTARI GET FUCKED

>>52256677
sauce baseline

>>52256677
YES


Change #8, General Balancing Adjustments to Specific Ships
Rationale: While we always strive for balance and to make every ship in the game a viable competitive choice, it’s inevita-
ble that over time (and with a developing meta) some ships will turn out to be over or underpowered. Such adjustments
are necessary when the aim is long term equilibrium and this is unlikely to be the last time we make such changes for
Dropfleet. The proposed adjustments as follows:
UCM:
Pg 109, New York: Increase Fighters and Bombers Load to 7
pg 114, St Petersburg, Cobra Heavy Lasers, add the following special rule: ‘Siphon Power’ - If firing only one of these two
weapons, increase its Burnthrough value to Burnthrough(8).
Scourge:
Pg 151, Charybdis, Plasma Bombs: Increase this weapon’s lock value to 3+
Pg 151, Scylla, Reverse-Grav Cannon: Increase this weapon’s lock value to 3+
PHR:
Pg 170, Hector, Medium Calibre Broadsides: Both gain the ‘Linked-1’ rule
Pg 171, Achilles, Heavy Calibre Broadsides: Both gain the ‘Linked-1’ rule
Pg 175, Orion, Medium Calibre Broadsides: Both gain the ‘Linked-1’ rule
Pg 178, Ikarus, Medium Calibre Batteries: Both gain the ‘Linked-1’ rule
Pg 181, Calypso, Advanced ECM Suite rule, Change 1st Sentence to: ‘Once per turn, when an enemy group has allocat-
ed Attack Dice, you may add 1 to the Lock values of this group’s weapons this turn against a single friendly ship within 4”
of the Calypso.
Shaltari:
Pg 199, Diamond: Increase pts to 290
Pg 212, Topaz: Reduce pts to 37
Pg 212, Jade, Particle Lance: Increase the Lock value of this weapon to 2+
Pg 213, Amethyst: Change the Attack value of the weapon ‘Microwave Array’ from ‘D3+2’ to ‘D3+1’
Pg 214, Glass, Ion Lances: Add the ‘Close Action’ special rule to this weapon

>>52256730
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hawkwargames/dropfleet-commander/posts/1835808

>>52256749
>New York is a proper super carrier now
AERIAL SUPERIORITY
YOU
SEE
OF
EHM

>1) Pg 67, Calibre, add the following sentence: ‘In addition, weapons with the Calibre H and/ or S rule inflict Critical Hits on
rolls exceeding their Lock value by ONE rather than the usual two (against targets of any Tonnage value).

I have no idea how the math works out yet but I'm already compiling my dream list of nothing but Achilles. Shame torpedoes weren't touched on yet.

I love the admiral change, too.

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https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0159/4298/files/ExperimentalRules.pdf?2506305336218858126
>New York up to Launch 7
>St. Pete gets Burnthrough 8 when firing a single barrel

>Scourge specialist frigates get a 3+ Lock buff

>Heavy Calibre crits on +1
>Linked Broadsides across the gun-focused standard and heavy cruisers
>Calypso debuffs an entire group's shots against its escortee

>2+ Lance for the Jade
>Close Action for the Glass
>Various baby nerfs
Ayyy

>I can no longer put my admiral in a Taipei and go truly balls out to defeat my foes in style
I understand why you did it, Hawk. But I'm still sad.

Though the St Pete, Scylla and New York changes are fantastic. I didn't think anything was particularly wrong with Char but I'm not going to complain about a buff. Shaltari bullshit getting nerfed feels real good, Topaz buff may make them worthwhile as a backline sneaky gunner to replace the Glass since they now put out more standard order damage than Amber for the same price. Jade is still pretty bad at 45pts but it's a step in the right direction.

>>52256908
>>52256781
>pg 114, St Petersburg, Cobra Heavy Lasers, add the following special rule: ‘Siphon Power’ - If firing only one of these two weapons, increase its Burnthrough value to Burnthrough(8).

SAVED?

>>52256749
GET FUCKED HOGS

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>wallet screaming

>>52257367
Think of all the free shipping, anon.

>>52257494
I'm wondering if I should buy the BBs at my lgs, but I think the price is noticeably worse.

>>52257258
I think a St. Petersburg is going to be on my to-do list with the next batch of ships I get.

>>52256677

Diamond also got it's points changed to 290. and the Amy got a slight nerf in CAW attack dice.
On the other hand, the Topaz got a price drop and the Jade now locks on a 2+ which is what we've been saying needs to happen for a while.

Also, how do we feel about the buff to Heavy Calibre guns? Does it fix them? Is the Perseus now not a complete joke?

>>52257337
>GET FUCKED HOGS
>Two buffs to ships in need of them, one tiny nerf to a frigate that saw overwhelming use, one nerf designed to help shut down meme lists that hurt the game for all factions.

Changes that help the hogs are going to fuck us? When people stop memeing glasses and amethists and are forced to use other ships that are sub-par it will show Hawk that more ships need minor buffs to compete. Given that these changes only took three months to be announced, I give it another 6, 9 tops before everything is nicely balanced and hogs reign supreme. After all what good is an assured victory?

>>52258238
Eh, disintegrators and blue balls I can handle, it's just the diamond/glass bullshit that really tears up my jelly fleet. Balance the hogs all they like, it'll just make it less insulting when they lose to the scourge master race

>Changes #1-3
All good, no real analysis needed

>Change #4
VERY needed, takes the Diamond down from "utter rape machine" to "pretty damn good", while still maintaining its superiority over the DMC.

>Change #5
It's not the first buff I would have gone with, but it does the job well enough. No where near on par with the damage that light guns put out on preferred targets, but it does its job.
I would definitely have made it a separate rule, rather than tacking it on to Caliber. Hell, looking at the numbers, making it a universal rule against both preferred and non-preferred targets wouldn't be untowards.

http://anydice.com/program/b134

>Change #6
YES

>Change #7
No real opinion, but it seems fair enough.

>Change #8
>New York
Too much in my opinion, because now the New York is classed as a super carrier, which contradicts the UCM's existing fluff on naval power. Upping it to 6 F&B would have been enough

>St. Pete
Very interesting, and it definitely makes it a viable choice. Having the chance to cripple battlecruisers and outright pop light cruisers is very powerful indeed.

>Chary and Scylla
Both good and both needed, now they'll actually fight for a slot with Harpies and Djinns.

>PHR cruisers
Excellent overall, and standardizes their ships in line with the Ajax and Battlecruisers, while keeping the halfside ships (Theseus, Perseus) unique. A bit strange that the Orph and Ganymede weren't included, but whatever.

>Calypso
The Calypso is now the single best defensive frigate in the game, without fail. Just two calypsos is now enough to utterly neuter any number of attacks in the game; distraction Minos just got a lot, lot better.

(cont)

>>52258500

>Diamond
Needed, goes well with its nerf.

>Topaz
Needed, nothing much to say besides that I'd consider taking some now.

>Jade
Probably one of the best changes in the update; coupled with a points decrease down to 37-41, and the Jade will be in a perfect spot. Also hopefully means that Hawk will be giving all other particle guns 2+ lock as well.

>Amethyst
Fair change, no complaints.

>Glass
Just as needed as the Jade change; I'm worried about the lack of (beam), though.

>>52258237
>Also, how do we feel about the buff to Heavy Calibre guns? Does it fix them? Is the Perseus now not a complete joke?
Yes, but not to the degree we were hoping. Any buff is good, though.
No, the Perseus is still inherently inefficient, but at least now it won't be a bad pick at larger game sizes where it can actually find targets for its guns.

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>Nickar has teeny tiny little plasma cannons on its underside
I knew it

>>52258237

I'll work out the math but the entirety of the changes favor PHR pretty strongly, especially that change to shaking launch assets. Critting on a 3+ against battleships with the Minos is going to be quite strong paired with the calypso buff.

When activating a battlegroup, do all groups move and allocate attack die simultaneously, or one group at a time?

>>52258500
>A bit strange that the Orph and Ganymede weren't included
Let's be fair, some people are already mad at both classes for being a great buy. It makes sense that combat cruisers would be given something extra to set them apart.

>>52259212
the rule book seems to indicate that you move one group and the resolve its fire, then move another and so forth. I dont see why it would exactly matter except for whether command cards require certain action points.

>>52259264
only thing is that there is now very little reason to use the weapons free rule as the PHR

What does it look like to make a list in one of the starters? Trying to read out the game and list building has me a bit stumped.

>>52259212
one group at a time
>>52259419
It mostly matters for things like using burnthroughs to flash a target for other groups to shoot, and most notably it prevents my strix x2 djinn x3 battlegroup from being utterly hideous by giving PD against each class of ship in turn

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The beginnings of my UCM fleet in various states of completion. Any suggestions on what to add next?

>>52259552
not really even if you moved them all at the same time and fired at the same time, you can only pool CAW dice by group so youd still allow PD against each set.

>>52259791
True, but it does cut down on overkill, IE me declaring shots with the strix that the djinn alone wind up vaporizing.

>>52259444

It gives them a higher emphasis on maneuverability orders rather than trying to thread the needle with a double broadsides weapons free.

Orion's were already good, now they're officially great (again)

Frankly, the only thing the Hector needs to be completely viable is to give the burnthrough Linked-1 too

Suddenly it's frighteningly maneuverable for how much shit it can pull

>>52260276
>Letting it use all its weapons on standard orders
"no"
A slight points reduction would be all that's needed.

>>52258901
My calculations show that with the changes Heavy Broadsides have a roughly equal output to Medium Broadsides regardless of the target's tonnage. Although Mediums start to gain an advantage as the target's armor worsens (as expected), the Heavy Broadside consistently outperforms when also benefiting from its Caliber bonus. Under optimal conditions (firing at a Heavy or Superheavy tonnage ship with 3+ armor) the Heavy Broadsides outperform Mediums by about 30%.

*Note : Performance a comparison of average damage output. In all cases Medium Broadsides have a larger standard deviation due to their larger number of shots. This allows for the potential for a spike in damage greater than what Heavy Broadsides can achieve; however, the likelihood of such an outcome is very low.

>>52260388
sounds fairly balanced then

>>52260388
Just use anydice, anon.

http://anydice.com/program/b13e

>>52260478
Oh so THAT'S how you nest probabilities in Anydice. Been bothering me for a while. I kept having to calculate saves out the long way. Thanks!

>>52260536
It gets a lot more annoying for two and three damage weapons, but it's easy enough to figure out.

http://anydice.com/program/b13f

>>52258709
First Prowlers, now these guys. Why are tiny Scourge vehicles so cute?

>>52259753
Lookin good, Admiral!

The Saratoga is an experimental development of the New Cairo class Light Cruiser with a focus on efficiency, incorporating the very latest systems. While the New Cairo inherits many core attributes from the older Rio class (itself several decades old), the Saratoga features an entirely new prow and amidships superstructure, conceived from the ground up.
Early field reports of the class in action have been exemplary, showing the ship able to provide equivalent combat performance to the New Cairo while consuming less energy and requiring fully half the crew to operate effectively. The few in service have served with distinction and none have thus far been lost to the enemy, leading officers and enlisted to declare it a uniquely lucky class.
Unfortunately for the Admiralty, the Saratoga's were built exclusively at the FSI (Ferrous Shipping Industries) yards over the planet Ferrum which were entirely destroyed during the Scourge onslaught in late 2671. The yards had turned out a meagre 12 vessels for early void trials before their loss, making this one of the rarest ships in the UCMF. Compounding this, several proprietary systems were integral to the design and the subsequent collapse of FSI makes future construction of the class unlikely.
Famous ships of the class: Saratoga, Angelfire, Heaven's Ire, Stygian Light

Fukken xenos.

>>52259264
Yeah. Those two don't need any buffs.

Orpheus costs 130 points, has heavy cruiser defenses and fleet cruiser firepower, in addition to being a troopship.

San Fran costs 111, for cruiser defenses and sub-frigate firepower.

19 point difference to upgrade means she's already way undercosted vs other factional troopships. Even at 145 you'd strongly consider them.

>>52208181
Question: What size is the minimum point amount for you to have to fun with? I mean, at what point do you feel that the game really excels at what it's trying to do, and is the suggested game size. And how many models does a game of your prefered size consist of?

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City completed last week

UCM almost done

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>>52265986

WIP tanks

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>>52266032

Infantry

>>52265215
IMO, the 'full game' happens at 999 or greater. The key is the added points for more troop carrying units. But add one more battleship or battlecruiser, and you're basically at one of the common tournament sizes of 1250 already too.

The starter is still a fun game, but you don't have enough strike carriers to properly spread out for the main mecahnics.

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>>52266049
>>52266032
>>52265986

I fucking love how dirty and awesome these look anon.

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>>52266195


thanks!

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>>52266611

Anon stop you make me want to buy into a game I haven't even demo'd.

Are impel weapons worth a damn?

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>>52266641
>he didn't buy three factions worth of Dropzone models just to stave off the hunger for Dropfleet
Come to my arctic abode and I shall teach you my ways

>That moment when you only really play resistance
>Next units you're getting is a fucking Blackhawk gunship carrying spec ops soldiers and a FUCKING MECH SUIT

Today is a good day to resist brothers.

>>52267642
Is there ever a reason to play anything else?

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>>52267642
Idris Elba commanding XCOM, or Immortan Steve Irwin piloting a Jager meant for animal cruelty against Kaijus?

Resistance most based faction.

>>52267720

We got renders and pre-production models of the osprey gunship but do we have renders for the mech? Hopefully it's big and hopefully we can take them outside of just craine.

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>nobody posted these

>>52268133
Shipgirls and highly phallic anti-orbital cannons are always a good combination.

>>52267919
>osprey render/pre-production model
Would you care to grace us with it's visage wise one?

>>52241289
>That one guy who named all his ships after IJN vessels
You can like Kancolle, but at least be sublte about it.

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And a bump to get through the night

>>52267350
short answer: no
problem with them is that to do their thing they have to do a certain degree of damage that they're not consistently able to do.

>>52267350
>>52268764
Solution to Impel; make it like crippling.

>Impel(X)
If at least X critical hits are made against the target ship, you may turn the target ship up to 45 degrees in either direction.

Change coils to Impel(1), but make them 3+ and with 2 damage; now they're actually worth a damn as a weapon, and are more likely to actually turn ships.

>>52267350
Nah. Their gimmick isn't worth only doing 2/3 the average damage of disruptors. If they did a bit more it would be alright, or if the gimmick was more reliable.

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>>52268364

Can't find the pre-pro at the moment but here is the render.

Alright /dcg/, bump question time.

Which faction is the most hip hop?

>>52271411

Resistance, the real OG's.

>>52262276

Now if only it wasn't twenty god damn quid to ship them to the US

>>52271811
It isn't if you order enough.

Anyone know of some good DZC podcasts??

>>52269142
Do the weapons from a group all fire together or separately? I know CAW is done together but what about the others?

If I had two ships in a group each do one damage with an impel weapon, do I get to turn the ship?

>>52272938
Together, but impel is on a weapon by weapon basis, so it wouldn't work if you had two ships with impel(2) both deal one damage. If they errata it so the guns can combine fire then that'd be very beneficial to the light cruisers armed with them, making their gimmick a little less unreliable

Is St. Pete now just a cheaper Avalon with less guns?

>>52274069
It has lower odds of hitting that damage cap, but it doesn't have Bloom. Seems like a viable option now.

>>52274069
Not really, but it's definitely got some viability now.

>>52272482
There is Orbital bombardment, and Rolling Hot, I dont know how much content they both put out anymore, OB was fairly prolific about a year ago. Id be careful listening to them too much (OB that is) as they tend to take their own meta too seriously and think thats how the game is played everywhere, to be a bit fair they do have the guy whos won like all the invasion official tournaments so they might be right.

>>52273416
Well, shoot. Reading the impel rule doesn't allow for any alternate readings either.

>>52272938
All weapons from a group fire simultaneously.

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Just stomped my First game with the phr DMC. It was a BS in a 1000pt game against UCM. The laser rolled crits for 5/6 shots and averaged about 6 damage + (2/3) from the crit table every turn from the third and onwards. The UCM player was salty Because one should not spend 29% of ones pointtotal on a single ship and thus didnt bring his own BS. All inall I love the DMC and look forward to trying it ouy on the shaltari next game.

>>52278279
Congratulations on your win.

How much of your fleet did you lose? What was the final score?

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>>52270334

>>52270334
>This is Voodoo Three-One, in the pipe, five by five

>>52278279
>Salty because your enemy brought a battleship

Tell him to git gud

Think I finally understand list building for Dropfleet. For whatever reason it was shooting over my head.

>>52283222
any idea what was causing you a problem?

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>>52280433
I only lost 3 corvettes, 1 strike carrier and 1 Ikarus, but except the battleship which stood at 18hp, the rest were at 3hp or below without exception.

And the list I used was as following:
DEVIL MAY CRY; Slimfit edit. - 1000pts
PHR - 4 launch assets

SR15 Flag battlegroup (285pts)
1 x Heracles - 285pts - S
+ Fleet Vizier (20pts, 2AV)

SR5 Line battlegroup (130pts)
1 x Orpheus - 130pts - M

SR10 Line battlegroup (230pts)
2 x Ikarus - 230pts - M

SR5 Line battlegroup (89pts)
1 x Theseus - 89pts - M

SR4 Pathfinder battlegroup (156pts)
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
2 x Medea - 78pts - L

SR3 Pathfinder battlegroup (90pts)
3 x Echo - 90pts - L

Gotta say, the Theseus was murder and the Heracles was so god damn imposing the enemy was afraid of even targeting it with shit.

>>52283792
>foe got so scared of a Heracles he forgot to target the Heracles
>focused fire so poorly that almost every capital ship was near death but only 1 actually died
It's like Johannas Stern was brought into the real world.

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>>52284391
The memes are real.
But in all seriousness.
How the fuck do you beat Shaltari?
We have this one guy whom I'm fairly certain have not a single clue as to what he is doing, but he has yet to lose a single game yet.

He just camps everything at his board-edge to the best of his abillities and just simply scan-snipes targets every turn while using his !ships to plant troops at his sectors.

The best idea I got is to play the moon-mission or some shit, placing solid debree as cover for his bullshit while using corvettes to deal with his gates.

Anyone else got some proper remove hedgehog strats?

>>52284651
limas or active scans are godsends, as are shenanigans involving moving to different layers. Hitting them with a burnthrough that lights them up also helps, and silent running can get you close when you need to.

>>52284651
>Anyone else got some proper remove hedgehog strats?
If he's a camper, all you can really do is one of two things:

A) Double full thrust; get in range by turn 2 and fuck his shit up; depending on his exact weapon loadout, frigate spam may be your friend.

B) Double silent running; if he's able to thin your ranks before you can close the distance, just position your stuff right at game start and silent run to your objectives, max thrust value each time. By turn two or three you should be in range of his stuff, and can go ham.

Do you have his list, or what it approximately is?

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>>52284755
He is known for his Particle Triad, double Emeralds and Onyxes.
The rest I honestly don't know.
He is NOT a fan of corvettes tho, saying that his gates can do their job for far cheaper.

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>>52284755
On that question; do you peeps know if shaltari can drop their infantry and armor when the gates go double thrust?

All things considered it's the Emeralds that are dropping units, so we've been playing it so that as long as the emerald plays by the launching assets rules, the gates doesn't have to.

>>52284781
>only two emeralds
>onyxes
Well shit, that puts frigate spam out of the window, he's probably got a good bit of actual combat vessels then.
Since he's at the back as well, he likely keeps his shields down, so asset spam won't work either.
Honestly, I'd say go for massed Pandoras or Theseii

>>52284805
I'm fairly sure that's the correct interpretation, but there's been so talk on the forums about that.

On a slightly related note, thin your paints a little bit more. There's some noticeable caulking along the edges and ridges, but otherwise you've got a pretty smooth finish on the hull itself.

>>52284873
Thanks dude.

>>52284651
Silent running, strike craft, active scanning+flash weapons, proper use of terrain and Z levels. Take Calypsos for your big stuff to fuck over his particle triad. If he's using Onyxes then they must be going weapons free, otherwise they'd struggle to kill a frigate a turn. That adds spikes that you can use to your advantage. Managing energy spikes is key to victory against Shaltari in my experience.

>>52284781
Double Emeralds is on the low end of standard. If you can snipe those things (UCM can easily, PHR might find it harder but it's still possible) then you're at a massive advantage.

>He is NOT a fan of corvettes tho, saying that his gates can do their job for far cheaper.
Use corvettes against him. Fuck his voidgates up. A single 5+ shot is not scaring anything, your strike carriers and even corvettes can laugh it off.

>>52284805
We don't know. It's something that needs to go in a FAQ. I've been playing them as needing to follow the strike craft rules, because the rules state that gates are deployed from voidgates. But nobody knows for certain what it's meant to be.

>>52285057
PHR can tag those motherships with Pandoras; a group of 3-4 is somewhat points inneficient compared to Cairos or Berlins, but it's enough to light them up and reliably cripple, if not outright pop.

>>52285151
They're not as good for damage because of how BTL crits work, but for target marking Pandoras may even be better than UCM lasers. If you use 2 and hit with both of them, even if they bounce off armour and do no damage, then that's still a major spike on the target. Cobras need to deal 3 damage to get that effect.

Not that it matters for real faction comparisons because Lima is bae and no PHR harlot could ever compare.

>>52285451
Honestly, the one time I did work it out (that I have since lost), the Pandora actually had a fairly respectable probability of doing the full 3 damage for its weapon. I think it was somewhere between 22% and 33%, depending on the armor of the target.

>>52285636
My ghetto manual calculations I just did put it at around 20% against 4+ armour, so one of us must be wrong. Or both of us. Honestly it will probably turn out to be both of us.

Posting calculations so people can tell me about my mistakes. I decided to merge total misses and successful armour rolls into one percentage, as they're functionally the same. I also decided to shorten recurring numbers because they're functionally fucking annoying.

FIRST SHOT
1/2 miss (50%)
1/6 nocrit (16.67%)
1/3 crit (33.33%)
-16.67% nocrit
-33.33% crit

SECOND SHOT
if nocrit
1/2 miss (8.33%)
1/6 nocrit (2.78%)
1/3 crit (5.56%)
if crit
1/3 miss (11.11%)
2/3 crit (22.22%)
-2.78% nocrit
-27.78% crit

THIRD SHOT
if nocrit
1/2 miss (1.39%)
1/2 crit (1.39%)
if crit
1/3 miss (9.26%)
2/3 crit (18.52%)
-19.91% to land all 3 hits

>>52286007
Supernova Laser is Lock 3+ my dude. 1/3 miss, 1/3 hit, 1/3 crit on the first shot.

>>52286052
>I decided to merge total misses and successful armour rolls into one percentage, as they're functionally the same

>>52286161
But armor saves don't even get rolled until the weapon is done firing due to misses or hitting the burnthrough cap, so you're cutting out half of the nocrit results that would normally be triggering further Lock rolls.

>>52286257
Fuck. It's been a little while since I've played, but I remember now playing with those rules. I don't know how I got it into my head that hits that don't damage stop further BTL rerolls.

Calculation update soon.

>>52286007
Well, from my own napkin calcs, here's what I got

>versus 3+ armor
0 damage: ~43.00 %
1 damage: ~21.74 %
2 damage: ~17.63 %
3 damage: ~17.63 %
Average: ~1.1 damage

>versus 4+ armor
0 damage: ~40.65 %
1 damage: ~22.56 %
2 damage: ~17.00 %
3 damage: ~19.78 %
Average: ~1.2 damage

>versus 3+ armor
0 damage: ~36.97 %
1 damage: ~24.48 %
2 damage: ~16.66 %
3 damage: ~21.88 %
Average: ~1.2 damage

Conclusion: I was horribly, horribly wrong with my earlier calculations.

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>>52286436
I just redid my calculations in an entirely different way, this time taking into account the fact that all hits prompt extra burnthrough rolls... and I got the same result as before. So I'm either fucking up now or I was fucking up before. It's probably both.

Posting an image of my notes because I'm too lazy to format them into something 4chan-friendly.

Okay fuckers, give me rock songs that would make a good name for either a Seattle or a Lima. They're the only things I've got left to do.

>>52287700
>Lima
Spirit of the Radio

>>52287700

>Seattle

Come as You Are?
Smells Like Teen Spirit?
Lithium?
Rape Me?

>>52288403
>Seattle
A FUCKING WHITE WHALE

>>52288403
Nah, I've already got a New Orleans named Radio Friendly Unit Shifter and a one ship per artist policy. There's a lot more good rock bands out there than I have ships, so I'd rather not double up. I really probably should have posted my current list, but that's on my desktop so I can't now.

>>52288603

No One's Gonna Love You
Infinite Arms

Does the Calypso ECM stack?

>>52288992
Yeh. It's in their description.

>>52289047

post-human fucking shits

>>52289097
It's interesting that both the factions with big crippling gun battleships are also the factions with really good general purpose defensive frigates.

>>52289157

The first-turn battlecruiser-blitz trick for Column deployment got a lot safer, too.

So what sort of jelly-belly list would your field with exactly no BCs, two starter sets, one BB, and a corvette blister?

That is;
> BB
> 6 CR sprue
> 8 frigates
> 6 C-uh. ... corvettes?

complication: one starter set is already assembled in default form.

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>>52289546
I'm brand-fucking new to the game (only 4 and a half ships built+painted), so I have very little idea what I'm doing, but going off of rule-of-cool and snippets of info I've gleaned from the past few threads:

>BB (No clue what that means)

>Stock Starter: UCM (Moscow, Berlin, Seattle, 2x N.Orleans, 2xToulon)

>Unbuilt Starter: (St.Petersburg, Berlin, San-Fran, 1xToulon, 3xTaipei)

>Corvettes: 4xSantiago, 2xSantiago

>>52290400
BB is common naval shorthand for 'Battleship', referring to the US system for coding ship types used since early 1900s.

That's a good 2nd Starter, but you do definitely need the extra New Orleans. 4x NO and a San Fran are staple ground forces. 6x Santiago are pretty good though.

>>52290400
I adore your tastes, but think you're a bit light on strike carriers and also I was asking about Scourge.

>>52289546
Moscow, Seattle, Berlin, 2lon, 2nawlins

>Tokyo
>San Fran
>Berlin
>Seattle
>2 Nawlins (can only build 2 with the spare sprue)
>2 Lima
>6 Santiago

>>52289546

Build as many strike carriers as your parts allow.

Lima and Jakarta deserve looking at; you're pretty cruiser-heavy- getting Moscow in range for an early weapons-free can outweigh a mini-swarm.

>>52290891
Scourge. Scourge! Yoo-see-em are not jelly-bellies, they're jelly haters!

>>52292018

Well in that case a Shenlong can be pried apart into a Yokai fairly easily.

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>>52290682
My apologies for the UCM hi-jack there, still familiarizing myself with the terms here. For Scourge, I'd probably attempt a similar equivalent, a Daemon for the battleship, and follow your suggestion for an effective number of strike cruisers.

>>52290544
Combining these two points, I'd also consider 2xN.Orleans and 2x Jakartas as options too for the second starter (iirc, Taipei's work best in groups of 3+). As for an initial battleship, I'd probably stick with a Beijing.

>>52292018
My mistake

Shenlong, Ifrit, Wyvern, 2Gargoyle, 2Harpy

>Ifrit
>Hydra
>Chimera
>2 Chimera
>2 Djinn

>>52294585
This. This is probably the best loadout, and make the BB a daemon for more gunslinging fun.

Or go dragon for hard mode, because its more insulting if you beat your enemies with the lesser ship.

>>52295413
The other alternative is to go double Hydra, rather than double Ifrit, and just take the Daemon for your beams.

>>52295574
That is a good option. I would favor the ifrits just to mark targets with the 2+ lock mode for their burnthroughs so the shenlong/daemon can beam the shit out of whatever HVT gets marked, but dual hydra is exceedingly effective

>>52265986
That's just gorgeous work! How long did that take?

>>52286671
>>52286436
>>52286007

Since the burnthrough laser shots depend on previous shots we first need to use conditional probabilities to determine the number of hits and crits and the associated probabilities. This is easily done by making a conditional probability tree.

To potentially deal 3 damage there are exactly 4 outcomes we have: HHH, HHC, HCC, and CCC. (Remember, burnthrough shots auto crit after critting once.) Next is to find the probability of the hits not being saved for each of these 4 cases. The probability of dealing 3 damage will be the sum of these probabilities.

3+ Armor save
17.8% chance of dealing 3 damage.

4+ Armor save
19.9% chance of dealing 3 damage.

5+ Armor save
22.5% chance of dealing 3 damage.

>>52296093
Yep, that's pretty much what I did for >>52296093
Interestingly enough, upon first calculation, my probabilities totaled up to slightly above 100%. After accounting for that, I can see why our values are slightly different.

jelly-belly anon questions have me wondering about the Scourge frigate scene. They seem to be a grab-bag of things that look useful but good luck fitting them all in, or any one thing in in enough mass to be powerful if you don't keep tight list discipline.

>>52296877
With the newest changes that are brewing they're gonna be like the UCM...all frigates are good, but there's just no space. I'm tempted to try running a frigate swarm list and see what happens. Only problem is I don't have enough frigates of my own.

Dave suddenly appears at your front door and asks you to design the faction's launch assets so that they're sufficiently varied; what do you do?

>UCM
Fighters: 20" thrust; +3 PD
Bombers: 12" thrust; 4+ lock; 3 attack; 1 damage
Torpedo: 9" Thrust; 2+ lock; 1 attack; 9 damage

>Scourge
Fighters: 24" thrust; +3 PD
Bombers: 15" thrust; 3+ lock; 2 attack; 1 damage; scald
Torpedo: 12" Thrust; 2+ lock; 1 attack; 4 damage; corruptor*

*Instead of suffering additional fire effects on a roll of 6+ per remaining hull point, the corrupted ship suffers additional fire effects on a roll of 5+ per remaining hull point. If the corrupted ship is crippled, it instead suffers additional fire effects on a roll of 4+ per remaining hull point.

>PHR
Fighters: 20" thrust; +4 PD
Bombers: 12" thrust; 2+ lock; 3 attack; 1 damage
Torpedo: 9" Thrust; 2+ lock; 1 attack; 6 damage; crippling

>Shaltari
Fighters: 24" thrust; +4 PD
Bombers: 15" thrust; 2+ lock; 1 attack; 1 damage; particle**

**For the purposes of PD, critical hits from Shaltari Bombers are considered to be a roll of 4, 5, and 6.

>>52297279

I'd keep Corruptor rule as is, and just make their torpedoes have 2 attacks if you're going to up the other damage of the others to around 9. Better chance of getting at least 1 crit and getting that corruptor rule in.

Also, did the Shaltari fighters NEED a nerf down to 4?

>>52297279

Well, that'd decide the PHR carriers vs. broadsides debate for all time, to the extent it still exists.

>>52297350
>I'd keep Corruptor rule as is, and just make their torpedoes have 2 attacks if you're going to up the other damage of the others to around 9. Better chance of getting at least 1 crit and getting that corruptor rule in.
Nah; as it is, the corruptor rule really isn't all that powerful. Even in the best case scenario, a corrupted PHR BB with 18 hull points remaining, you're only adding 3 additional fires at the end of the turn, in addition to the 1 you started with. That's utterly pitiful damage, considering that fires aren't assured damage.
Changing it to 5+ bumps that up to an additional 6 damage fires at the end of turn (with the rate decreasing as damage is done).
Even still, fires have a 50% chance to do nothing and be snuffed out, 33% to do 1 damage, and 16.7% to do 2. That's, on the average, 4 damage on the roundup phase of it being corrupted. Assuming of course that the BB activated after it got hit with the torp.

>>52297350
>Also, did the Shaltari fighters NEED a nerf down to 4?
I'm just going off Hawk's numbers, man; I'd put them up to +5, but that combined with their range might just be a bit much.

>>52297420
Anon, the PHR assets stats weren't changed at all, except for adding crippling to their Torps. That's how their fighters and bombers are right now.

On a related note, does being corrupted stack? If a Dragon hit a Herc with both its torps, and both critted, would the Herc be double-corrupted and need to roll twice for each remaining hull point?

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>>52297477
>3 attack
The only thing in faction that would reliably outperform that is a Heavy Broadside firing at a heavy, Neutron Missiles, or the DMC. And that's PER SQUADRON.

>>52297533
Shit, that was a typo. It's supposed to be only 2 attack.

>>52297279
>PHR*
Bombers: 12" thrust; 2+ lock; 2 attack; 1 damage

>>52297279
>Bombers: 15" thrust; 2+ lock; 1 attack; 1 damage; particle**

Poor, poor Jade.

>>52298358
Couldn't really think of anything else tbqh, besides making it 3+ and with 2 damage.Keeping it as is wouldn't be bad either.

>>52297279
Not sure about the Shaltari bomber nerf. It's only on par with the old bombers against 3+ armour and only better against 4+ shields, with the added bonus of being more vulnerable to PD.

I'd make the PHR and UCM torps a little more distinct. Based on the platforms they're launched from I'd give PHR 18" range 8 damage ones and UCM 24" range 6 damage ones, since NY likes to hang back a little more than the pure brawlers Minos and Achilles. Scourge I'd just give 30" range so their gimmick can actually do some work.

Looking to get some DzC up in my area soon; do these two lists look balanced against each other? A friend and I are looking to move past playing the starter boxes.


Clash: 996/1000 points
Standard Army
Standard Roster [996/1000 pts]
Oppressors [353 pts]
Desolator: Desolator(Champion) [195 pts]
Reaper Squad: 3x Reaper, Marauder [158 pts]
Vanguard [105 pts]
Hunter Squad: 3x Hunter [105 pts]
Vanguard [105 pts]
Hunter Squad: 3x Hunter [105 pts]
Warriors [237 pts]
Warrior Horde: 3x Warriors, Marauder, 2x Invader [156 pts]
^ Sharing ^ Warrior Horde: 3x Warriors [81 pts]
Occupation Patrol [196 pts]
Destroyers: 2x Destroyers, Intruder Alpha [140 pts]
Minders: 4x Minder, Intruder Beta [56 pts]

VS

Standard Army
Clash: 998/1000 points
Standard Army
PHR Standard Roster [998/1000 pts]
Hand of the Sphere [361 pts]
Command Squad: Zeus(War Advisor), Zeus, Neptune [232 pts]
Sirens: 2x Sirens, Triton A1 [129 pts]
Battle Pantheon [290 pts]
Battle Squad: 2x Ares, Neptune [124 pts]
Battle Squad: 2x Phobos, Neptune [166 pts]
Immortals [111 pts]
Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1(+Stealth Missiles) [111 pts]
Immortals [101 pts]
Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]
Air Wing [135 pts]
Athena Squad: Athena [135 pts]

>>52298839
Possibly; I'd keep the PHR at 6 damage with crippling, but make the UCM do 8 or 9 damage.

As you have it, the PHR could do outright 16 damage on a single launch from their Minos, and I feel that's too much, while the UCM have to spread out their damage over two turns.

I'd disagree with the Scourge; their torps don't need range, corrupter just actually needs to be useful.

Do multiple fires on one ship (from things like corruptor or crippling weapons) cause multiple points of damage each roundup?

>>52299927
Yeh

>>52298930
I'm personally not a fan of rapid air response like the Athena in beginner games. I'd suggest some Helios units instead if you can.

If you have spare points do you take two Charybdis, two Scylla, or three Nickar?

>>52300897
I think that depends on the list. If I don't have any other Nickars, I need to get those guys in. If I have enough of them (3 groups of 3 I think) the 2 Charybdis. if I've got a 4 flight wolfpack of those already time to bring the Scyllas and laugh as I shoot bubbles.

>>52300897
Depends. First priority is Nickars, but I generally get 6 early on in list making anyway. Scourge is probably the faction for which corvettes are most important, so make sure you've got 6-9 of those.
After that it depends entirely on what I want. In most cases I'd say Scylla. I think Chars work best in big groups even post-buff. Even matching the damage of a Madrid they still can't afford to hang around and fire every turn like a Madrid can.

It's night shift in /dcg/, and all's well.

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>>52302299
My fellow melanin-enriched parasite!

>>52302321
Flying Neuroparasite of the Yard?

>>52302810
>ABANDON DISCUSSION
>THE SCOURGE HAVE SEEN THROUGH MY ATTEMPTS AT INFILTRATION!
>TENNISBALL HELP ME

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>Everybody laughed at me for believing in St. Pete
>now I laugh at their burning wreckage

>>52303028

I always beleived in Saint Peter, I just always knew that Saint Peter is a high maintenence lady who requires things done for her, like for example, she needs to come on around turn 2 where possible, along with a pair of Lima's who will kindly double ping a choice target for her.
All she has to do is to arrive on Weapons Free orders and savage some Troop Transport or Carrier with ships he didn't know I had at ranges he didn't know he was vulnerable from.

The buff simply means that she can now do something other than the above highly specific scenario.

Chromia class Orbital Relay Base when

>>52302299
>>52302321
>>52302810
>>52302917
I do not understand this sequence of memes. What is this?

>>52303584
Phase 3 :^)

>>52300840
I'm not really sure about it myself, but he's the new player, and the Athena's his baby. That and walkers being available when the game first came out is why he got into PHR at all.

That being said, I want him to keep playing. Here's a list of what he owns, and yes, I thought he had one more Triton than he did:

2x Zeus
1x Athena
3x Neptune
2x Phobos
2x Ares
4x Sirens
2x Triton
4x Immortals
2x Juno

>>52305576
Post one was a reference to the classic by Terry Prachett, Guards! Guards!, first part of the Night Watch series. The following two posts were modifications of "mah nigga". The remaining post is shenanigans.

>>52305576
Le pleasant smiles aside, do we have an ETA for phase 3 dropzone? I'd assume no earlier than next year, but it would be nice to have something official.

>>52306219
No idea, but I'd assume it's before DFC gets its equivalent of a phase 1.

If I had to guess, actually, what I imagine is going to happen is:

>DFC 1.1: general update and quality checking on the current rulebook, typos and contradictions fixed, rules clarified, along with picture of the corvettes and general release battlecruisers. Release sometime this summer, after general battlecruisers are made.

>Phase 3: Hawk wraps up the current reconquest arc and the UCM stalls in their momentum; stalemates everywhere

>DFC expansion: New faction added in, story line progresses as a prelude to DZC 2.0, general update, new special rules, new ships, etc etc

>DZC 2.0: DZC core rules are updated and cleaned up, total rebalancing of all factions to get the 1.0 units on par with phases 1, 2, and 3, along with whatever else they decide to release. Fifth major faction introduced to ground war from DFC.

It's a pipe dream, but I hope that Dave updates and redoes the earlier DZC models; they probably won't, because then they'll need new plastic molds, but still.

New thread on 9 or 10?

>>52307211
New thread on autosage 10.

>>52307211
Yeah sure. Normally I wait until it hits 10 but it really doesn't matter that much.