/gurpsgen/ - Gurps General

>>52149914
Challenging question. Superheroes are one of those game types GURPS struggles on, partly because it's a game where being able to run at light speed cost a lot of points.

That said, I've had a lot of fun in Grimwyld playing someone that is in that gray zone between 'heroic fantasy' and 'superhero', with tremendous physical strength and toughness. In GURPS that's something of an expensive combo, ST is pricy, but it leads to dramatic and fun characters.

>Creep into lair of monsters and spot an ogre bossing around some evil dwarves.
>Knock on the wall and wait in a shadowy alcove.
>Ogre comes to investigate sound.
>All Out Strong hit the Neck with a SM+1 Broadsword, killing him instantly
>Kick ogre head over to the evil dugar fuckers.

My players whines like a girls each time when I try to accustom them to t-bone DECIDE tweak to bring more logic and realism to our x-comish demon hunters game.The most part of what frustrates me is this tweak isn't complicated as technical grappling, last gasp or broken blade things.

Do I retain the aim bonus when I spray a high RoF weapon at multiple targets? Or only against the first? Or none?

>>52150349
You lose Acc bonus when switch targets.

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>>52150448
Unless you have the ability to track/aim at two targets at once?

>>52150529
Doesn't this require different weapons?

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DISCWORLD PDF WHEN

>>52150529

>that pic
>"Damnit, I'm on holiday, I should be drinking wine right now, not shooting terrorists."

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>>52151226
>"It's a counter-terrorism game. Why does your character have Fashion Sense, Appearance and Goodwife?"

>"Because GURPS is a game of freedom. That's why. You also gave us 180 points and you can only buy Combat Reflexes and Guns so many times."

>>52150266
Wait...What was your question?

>>52152184
Sorry, I should have quoted.
>Superhero Edition
>Tell us your hero stories!

My point was that it's really one of the few game types that GURPS kinda fights for. At least, DC type heroes. It's great for something like an X-Men game.

>>52150349
>when I spray a high RoF weapon at multiple targets?
Assuming you're spraying an area? No
Skipping shots? You retain your aim on only the first guy

>>52148394
>Their only downsides would be restricted diet and (arguably) larger SM.
Which is my fucking point here. You can't make them on a budget, because the race template will bloat into absurdity. I totally can see players who willingly use up 100 points to get ST 20, and only for the purpose of their carry capacity and SOME lift bonus (but only when they use pulley), since it is going to be useless for other purposes. Totally see that in 150 points campaign.

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>>52153050
The basic Fantasy dragons are SM +2, so about the size of a small elephant or very large horse. They run 250 points.

You COULD discount them more by Embracing The Suck and grabbing No Fine Manipulators. This gives you a Dragon that can buy ST for dirt cheap (-70% at SM 2) but also one that can't do anything that you'd need hands for.

I think you are right that, unless the GM is willing to make everyone dragons, give them a dragon template, then start them with 150 points after the template cost (IE: 400 point characters if you use GURPS fantasy dragons) then you can't really Dragon on a budget unless you are willing to wait to buy a lot of dragon features and start as a baby.

>>52153050
>I don't want all those racial features
>I still want to play this race
I fail to see point in this.
Make ponytaur with no ST bonus or equal ST across both parts if it bothers you so much.
Or even better, make human with Alternate Form (Centaur; Cosmetic, -50%; Always On, -10%) [6] because that's clearly what you want.

>>52153050
>>52153142
>>52153126

Ahh, fuck, thought we were still talking Dragons.

Yeah, anybody could kitbash a low point Centuar without too much trouble. Rather then 'lower half' ST, 5 ranks of Lifting ST, SM +1 with a racial Feature that the upper body is treated as SM +0 for buying armor, using weapons, ect. (Human sized hands and chest and arms, horse sized body).

After that a half rank of Enhanced Move and a level of Increased Consumption (More food and water) and you are ready to go.

>>52153142
>>52153194
And this is what I wanted in the first place. A "budget" centaur.
Thanks a bunch, even if more than a pinch of salt was made by this

Btw - nice knowing you can pull such shit by making it "cosmetic, always on"

I know, I know, this was discussed to the death, but which companion has rules for cities and countries?

>>52153929
City Stats for the base numbers. The Social Engineering issue of Pyramid has "City Management" for doing something with those numbers. Social Engineering: Boardroom & Curia for treating the government as an organization.

And of course Mass Combat for when things get hairy.

>>52153798
Gotta love those zero point features

>>52153988
I think we should really add those to the opening pdf file, just because how often people ask about those.

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>>52153142
>>52153194
Not him, but also thank you!

Does girls voodoo exist for 4e yet?

>>52156575
Gurps* fucking autocorrect

>>52156575
Nope, but what mechanics from 3e need to be brought over?

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Hey heroes
Gloranthanon here
Check out the stuff I've done for GURPS Glorantha and let me know what you think. Probably won't make much more progress because my campaign fell through, but I hope what I've got is useful to any of you interested in the world.
https://thesixthaction.wordpress.com/2017/03/13/gurps-glorantha/

One of my players is complaining about Blunt Trauma rules in Low-Tech. Basically he says that if you have full plate, you should never take damage from a sword ever. He says that it doesn't make sense that an ST 14 deal can deal 6 crushing damage on his best damage roll with a broadsword swing against DR 6 medium plate. He's implying that he should be impervious to all forms of damage because "muh historical documents said that plate was good"

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>>52158009
Not bad

>>52158481
Plate was good, that's the right part.
But even if you can't be harmed by the weapon smacking at the plate, there are still just minor and inconvinient things like the direct force of impact, causing abrasions and bruises. Sure, they are nowhere near as harmful as direct damage from a sword on skin, but they are still there.
And if you are wearing a plate, one of the last thing you can expect is being attacked by sword. More likely a shield. Or some blunt weapon. So they will cause blunt trauma and also throw you off-balance, to inflict even more damage.
And that goes even without quoting my direct HEMA experience, where plate is doing the good of not getting killed, but it hurts like a bitch anyway when you get attacked and in fact people smack harder when you wear plate, since they know they "can't" harm you.

So no, plate is not protecting from inflicted damage. It simply prevents getting killed outright, but if someone is dedicated, he will just cut your knee or trip you over and then smack until the armor gives up.
Which is very quick and very easy to do. Especially with blunt weapon and/or polearm, since you are outright bending the armour as if trying to get a can opened with smashing it with a stone - it will eventually give away and the content of it will be badly mangled due to all those hits.

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Random fast thought experiment, what is the worst possible plain sword you could make? With all the mods across all the books.

It'd have to be like, a blunt broadsword, very cheap quality, copper (bronze? even silver?), unbalanced, and I can't think of any more off the top of my head.

>>52158633
Isn't there an outright malnus about broken weapons?

Costs fatigue (since it's heavy and cumbersome), no wounding, no knockback, no blunt trauma, inaccurate, nuissance effect (like throwing you off-balance), preparation required, reduced range (due to combination of bulk, shape and other stuff), takes extra time (duh)
And of course - unreliable and breakable, the worst of them all

>>52158749
Oh, I'm trying more to model the worst possible sword without it being something obvious like already broken, or made of wood or stone. And not as a point cost advantage, but with actual items in books and weapon modifiers.

>>52158633
A Cheap (Unbalanced) sword made from Pure Silver? Unless there's plenty of things that silver is needed to kill you end up with a weapon that cost a ton and is -1 to Hit and Damage. It's also the kind of thing where you can sort of see why a player character would drag it along with him, in case of werewolves.

>>52158633
Maybe use combined weapons from Martial Arts and add an unweildy flail to the handle or something? That would make it quite shitty

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>>52158481
I'd remind him that ST 14 is pretty goddamn strong. This is a very powerful man catching a person in comparatively light plate with a good swing.

Do you mean Edge Protection rules? IIRC, Blunt Trauma is different.

>>52159232
Yeah, his plate would make him pretty immune to slashy swords, but he'd still get fucked up hard by blunt trauma, warhammers, and so on.

>>52159232
Well low tech refers to it as blunt trauma in the box. /shrug.

>>52152411
I've run GURPS Supers games where I just told the players it's a four-color kitchen sink comic book world, you have 1000 points plus 25 pts in disadvantages tell me what you want to play and I'll let you know if it's too broken.

Said yes to pretty much everything, just a few minor tweaks here and there. Ended up with a diverse bunch of stupid powerful noobs which would have fit right in as the Justice League's B-Team after a bit of training.

I didn't bother building their opponents in details I just winged it and trusted they could deal.

It went swimmingly.

[I always wish people saying GURPS can't handle high point games would give concrete examples of what went wrong in their games because I haven't run into nearly as many problems as they claim.]

>>52158633
Different anon, but speaking of which - where can I find the list of item modifiers?

And for something completely different - does Fast Draw applies to breech-loaded guns, or inly for muzzle-loaders? I'm in the middle of converting our group from a homebrew to GURPS and I know one of my players will instantly go for that breech-loaded gun from Low Tech, asking if he can reload it faster with Fast Draw. So I'm basically looking for the answer before the question is even asked.

>>52158522
>not bad
What could be better?

>>52159925
Not him, but you need to read that book, just like filename suggests. Not to just get the meme, but because it's a damn fine book.
"Not bad" is used by a high-class British officer describing eating the best egg he ever had in his life. Go figure what he really meant

>>52158481
Your player is fucking retarded, please tell him I called him retarded.

>>52158481
Good =/= inpenetrable. There is a wide variety of weapons, most of them melee, that can fuck up both plate and the guy inside. In fact, most of them rely precisely on the fact they can't exactly dent the armor, but shake the person inside of it instead.

>>52158481
See if he feels the same way after a demonstration: Give him a metal cooking tray to strap onto his stomach, and then smash him in the gut with a frying pan.

>>52158481
Buy some roofies, spike his drink, and then chain him to a wall and rape him for a month or two.

>>52160444
Brutal trips

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>>52160094
I see. Well anon, thanks for the explanation, and also to >>52158522 for the compliment.

hey gurps!
https://gifyu.com/images/VelikaJebenaMapacc8f3.jpg
rate my game map!

>>52159742
Post character sheets.
Receive internet hugbox/hatred

>>52161115
Neat/10
A bit overdetailed. You better run 2-3 simultaneous games in there at once

>>52161309
I've made it big so I can fit like 4 different settings in it, so I can run different kinds of games.

I'm afraid I don't have enough time to run simultaneous games.

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>>52161378

>>52161606
what did i do?

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>>52161778

What is your favorite supplement, and why is it Social Engineering?

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>>52161873
High tech
Who doesn't love gun porn?

>>52151084
About the same time as Mars Attacks PDF being after the release of DFRPG,

>>52159742
>1000 points
Fucking Lensman.

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>>52162721
Low tech isn't bad either. It's a very good for all kinds of games, anyone that needs to survive with low tech tools and equipment.

>>52161873
Alpha Centauri.

Because, well, Alpha Centauri. I just wish the vehicles in it get a 4th ed update.

Are atlatls any good?

>>52164764
Yes.

So I'm trying to do something a little weird, and I'm not sure how to do it.

Basically, I'm making a character who can summon and remotely control a sword made of magic stuff, fighting with it remotely, like he was holding it.

I figured I can Stat the actual controlling of the weapon, as TK, with a bigass negative modifier of "only applies to this very specific thing". I like TK, because it fits, and also scales super well (I can add range and increase the power of it easily, plus add side effects like "Compartmentalized mind", to allow him to still act physically, while controlling the sword, it even control multiple swords at once)

But I have zero clue how to actually stat/represent creating the sword, especially in a way that allows it to scale well.

>>52165463
You want to basically do Mordenkainen's sword in GURPS then, but fluff it as a telekinetic blade, and have it's damage and the number of blades scale with the characters power?

>>52165463
One issue of Pyramid (I think one of the Alternate GURPS issues) has an article called "Natural Weapons" that are sort of like Innate Attacks that scale to ST. The examples include some handheld weapons (I think).

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So its better to do a random roll to use a logic? or vice versa?

>>52167622
You don't need to roll random reactions for the character that swore vengeance on an NPC for killing his father who was the bbeg three adventures ago, even though he never met the players, because you know that the character hates the pc, and getting a reaction of 18+ though maybe rare, is possible, and is probably a phenomenally stupid result.

You also don't have to roll a reaction for the lecherous shopkeeper when the flirty super attractive pc asks for a small discount.

You can if you want, but the guideline is to roll when it is fun. There is no objective guideline for when rolling is fun and when fiat is better.

But to answer your question, I personally leave a lot up to rolls and try to be faithful to the results, even if it "wrecks my story."

>>52167713
Yeah for example, the last session I was GMing, the party bard walked into another group of adventurers looting the same place they were planning to loot. He was separated from the party too, and was surprised when his many attempts at diplomacy did nothing against the group's overconfident fighter.

"What, you expect a tough guy to listen to a pretty boy that dropped in uninvited?"

>>52164764
As long as TL is below 3 they kick ass

>>52165819
Yup, that's pretty much on the nose

>>52168018
How did he "introduce" himself? Because unless he was like "stop you bastards, I'm going to steal that instead!", that's basically the perfect situation to use reaction rolls, unless the NPCs, just have a "kill on sight" rule for any and everything they see in a dungeon.

>>52170198
It's a dungeon.
Relatively lawless, survive by any means necessary
Wat the fuck do you think will happen?
"Let's hug it out"?

How to do Medusa gaze or some similar working spell? It would be nice if there was some eye-contact related limitation, since I assume it would knock out a hefty amount of points.

>>52170765
No dummy, thats what the reaction roll table and modifiers are for.

>>52171283
Read the books
Sense based is in basic set limitations

>>52171283
>it would knock out a hefty amount of points.
It wouldn't, because you are ignoring DR completely.
Then, it depends on what exactly do you want.
Normal paralysis is +150% on affliction. Any equivalent of death is +300%.
Original Medusa didn't have paralyzing stare, it was just her face. I would make it as Aura, +80%; Vision Based, +150%; Always On, -20% or maybe even -40%.
Otherwise it's just an ordinary affliction, possibly with Malediction and Vision-Based, reversed, -20% (the latter is from Powers, page 105)

>>52171674
That was very helpful remark, thanks

>>52171872
Damn. Was hoping to get vision based as malnus, not increased cost. But if I'm right, the "lethal" Always On is -40%, so that's always something

So one of my friends thinks cloaks are OP bullshit and should get the following houserule for balance:

If a dodge or parry is made by a margin of success equal to or less than the cloak's defense bonus, the cloak is damaged as per the 'damage to shields' rule.

Thoughts?

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>tfw fellow anon lied to you
>tfw dubs don't work

>>52172840
>So one of my friends thinks cloaks are OP bullshit
Why?

>>52172840
Cloak don't give DB when not readied as shield.
When cloak readied as shield it's same thing as shield.
He doesn't think shields is OP?

>crushing damage to cloak
>lol

>>52172840
Cloaks already can be damaged just like shields and have much less DR and HP. I don't see a point in this rule.

>>52172931
>why
He says they basically give free DB for no real weight.
>>52172963
I dunno how you'd resolve that. I was just looking for a second opinion. I think it's dumb because you CAN attack a cloak and it's way easier to destroy than a shield if you do, and you can't shield rush or slam with a cloak. OR block.
>>52172979
I agree. Friendo doesn't.

>>52173029
>He says they basically give free DB for no real weight.
Taking up a hand and using a nonstandard and harder skill for a DB that you'd get with a shield at an easier skill and be able to readily loot from enemies. The cloak doesn't have even a fourth of the durability of a shield, meaning it's good for one or two uses before being ripped to shreds, and thus useless.

Call him an idiot for me, please?

>>52173068
We'll, playing Devils advocate but all that only applies if you block with it.
If you restrict the use to parries and dodge it still provides its bonus but doesn't weigh you down, OR take damage if you make the roll.

This is what had my friend so butt bothered. With a cloak you can make a character who pretty much always rolls dodge 14 and UP for around 200 points.

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nWoD has an Innocents book with tips for building and RPing child characters.

GURPS core has basic tips for statting them, but are there any more dedicated sourcebooks? I'd love to see the GURPS treatment for child stats and psychology.

Way too many people RP kids as either adults twice their age or toddlers with babyspeak despite being in their early teens.

>>52173105
It takes damage if you make a defense by the DB, so if you have a 12 parry +2 DB the cloak takes damage if you roll a 13 or 14.

>>52173151
Where is that rule? I thought he was houseruleing it, it seemed dumb to me since you can't block, rush, or make cover with a shield.

>>52173105
>We'll, playing Devils advocate but all that only applies if you block with it.
Eh? B484:
"See Shields (p. 287) for the Defense Bonus (DB), DR, and HP of
shields. If your shield’s DB makes the difference between success and fail-
ure on any active defense (not just a block), the blow struck the shield
squarely, and may damage it."
Why would cloaks be any different?

If your friend is coloncruicified about high dodge scores, then use the Limited Multiple Dodges rule from MA123, or Feint them, or gang up on them, or use an area attack, or any number of options.

>>52173207
So it wasn't a houserule after all. Huh.

>>52170765
Okay, but even when things are "lawless", people don't automatically murderrape anything in sight. If he wasn't being hostile, and approached them in a friendly manner, they'd have no reason to automatically go into "KILL HIM WITH ALL OUR MIGHT".

They might be wary or even hostile, if he gets a bad Reaction Roll, but that's the point of the Reaction Roll. (Again, this is assuming that he didn't do something incredibly stupid, like declare his intent to steal their shit)

>>52173068
>harder skill for a DB that you'd get with a shield at an easier skill
You don't need skill to get DB from cloak/shield

>>52173207
>Why would cloaks be any different?
>>52173029
>I think it's dumb because you CAN attack a cloak and it's way easier to destroy than a shield if you do, and you can't shield rush or slam with a cloak. OR block.

>>52173593
You can actively block with a cloak with the Cloak skill, though.

>>52173324
But
And hear me out here
What if they ARE motivated to kill him?

I want to run a post-human post-apocalyptic scifi game using the alternative computer & computer software complexity rules and other ideas from Thomas Weigel's "Thinking Machines" article in the GURPS " Tech and Toy II issue/e-magazine. Since this will involve the (cognitively enhanced) Mind Emulation player characters occasionally cut & pasting themselves into such things as "skyscraper computers" using the usual character template which reflects being a static computer (i.e. the Mainframe template from Transhuman Space/THS: Changing Times) is not going to cut it. Therefore, I need a template which instead reflects being computer software (like seen with Infomorphs in Eclipse Phase or the mind uploads in Nova Praxis).

As a starting point, I'm thinking of taking the Insubstantial advantage and giving it the Cybernetic limitation. What other limitations and features can I add to this to better reflect the character being software?

>>52174886
Digital mind
Absolute timing
ETS
Unkillable(backups)
Domination(digital minds)
Etc
Etc

>>52174886
Runs on electricity?
Reprogrammable?

And obviously, the standard pack of Doesn't breath, Doesn't eat etc.

>>52174886
TS's Infomorph templates *are* software, which is why they normally have one of Possession (Digital), Duplication (Digital), Extra Life, etc. Their physical template (warbot, mainframe, RATs, etc.) is switched out when running on different hardware.

>>52174871
Then Diplomacy probably wouldn't worj, depending on their motivation. If they think he's trying to steal their loot, he could probably surrender, throw down his weapons, and promise to let then have the loot if they let him leave.

>>52171284
No. Reaction rolls are for when it's up in the air. I knew how the NPCs were going to act because I gave them a line or two of personality each.

>>52174990

What you've described is is what I meant by "they usual character template which reflects being a static computer." I'm not running or copying elements from Transhuman Space for this (softer scifi) game.

The problem that I'm trying to resolve is when the physical template can't be realistically made, hence the mention of "skyscraper computers." I also want to make it easier to have a character which frequently copies over into different scales of computers--hence the preference for just simplifying things down via insubstantial advantage with the cybernetic limitation attached.

>>52175096
Insubstantial can still float around outside of a computer, just running on nothing in the aether; while that might work in some settings with truly global nets, that doesn't sound like what you're looking for. Possession (Digital) lets you jump from machine to machine and you can treat the one you're in as "your" body. They can start in whatever shell they (or you) want to start in and change as necessary.

If every PC is a mind upload that can jump from computer to computer, it's just a campaign feature that's not worth pricing.

I think I might be missing your point, though, as I don't understand what you mean by a template "can't be realistically made" or copying over "into different scales of computers"; you can definitely stat out those templates, and if cost is the issue, point values for physical shells are irrelevant unless you go out of your way make them relevant.

What is the most epic fight you or your players had? length?

>>52175530
Last night, the martial artist finally got off his first Power Blow; OHKO'd the heavily armored samurai villain and knocked his ass into a wall.

Actually, that fight was pretty awesome throughout. The corrupt lord had two hired yojimbo--a ronin blademaster and an unknown sniper--and had half-a-dozen footsoldiers between him and the party. The party sniper managed to get stupid lucky with a headshot and took out the enemy sniper's eye and take him out for the rest of the fight. The martial artist and resident big guy quickly mopping up the mooks with Rapid Strikes and AOA (Double) respectively. After that, the big guy kept the blademaster busy; she was too skilled to be hit, so the PC just kept AODing so she hit less often. With those two at an effective stalemate, eventually the martial artists got Power Blow to a manageable penalty, risked it, and won big. With her boss out of commission, the ronin shrugged and wandered off, saying she'd like to cross blades with the big guy again some other day.

The bard was in the back, fucked up from the previous fight, aiming his pistol at the lord in case things went south, but other than that, he didn't do too much.

All in all, I think the fight lasted 5-6 seconds.

>>52175939
and real life length?

what rules/setting did you use?

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>>52175047
That said, it's okay for a GM to glance at Reaction Modifiers and ball-park it.

He can say that one NPC doesn't care that a PC is a Minority Group and Ugly, another finds it off-putting but is basically polite about it, and others actively despise the PC.

You would get much the same results rolling out a reaction for each NPC. It's also okay to have most people be okay with, say, a Negative Reputation based on something that isn't too bad (-1) but have an important NPC hate the person for it.

>>52175507

>Insubstantial can still float around outside of a computer, just running on nothing in the aether; while that might work in some settings with truly global nets, that doesn't sound like what you're looking for. Possession (Digital) lets you jump from machine to machine and you can treat the one you're in as "your" body. They can start in whatever shell they (or you) want to start in and change as necessary.

Which is why I'd add the "cybernetic" limitation which would make it only apply to digital minds, note that this limitation does such to other otherwise supernatural advantages like mind reading or mental shield. In short, this would turn normal insubstantial to "insubstantial (digital)." It might be lazier and less realistic, but--again--I'm not going for Transhuman Space.

>If every PC is a mind upload that can jump from computer to computer, it's just a campaign feature that's not worth pricing.

>I think I might be missing your point, though, as I don't understand what you mean by a template "can't be realistically made" or copying over "into different scales of computers"; you can definitely stat out those templates, and if cost is the issue, point values for physical shells are irrelevant unless you go out of your way make them relevant.

Could you give me the stats for a Skyscraper sized computer, an entire city, an entire planet, a Matrioshka brain or etc?

Tl;dr: I'm not dealing with the kind of shells found in realistic scifi but instead fantastical scales like having tens of thousands of human minds being run on ridiculously big computers. Thus, I'm trying to make a lazy template which only concerns with being software (as anything that can damage the hardware to a sufficient scale is beyond the scope of lone PCs)--where stats like HP instead represent how well the character is running/how many bugs he or she has/etc.

>>52176119
Less than 30 minutes I think, and that was with some page flipping (normally a horrible idea, but everyone is still learning the system and I know where all the shit is to begin with).

>>52175507
>If every PC is a mind upload that can jump from computer to computer, it's just a campaign feature that's not worth pricing.

Conversely, I might, if my current plan proves too complicated, do something like this, but instead as a feature which states stats like HP now represent the state of the character as programs (i.e. "damage" no represents various ways the software can get screwed up and eventually fail to run). Likewise, the same feature could involve treating the disease mechanics as catching computer viruses.

Is it possible to make a D&D style bard with GURPS? You know, a guy plays a tune on his mandoline and everyone gets buff from it.

>>52176441
Sure. There are even a number of fantastic "Bard" style skills in the Basic Set. You'd need to make the buffs yourself, but there are a few options as to how you could do that.

>>52176441

I'd suggest having him use syntactic word magic, either by signing out the magical words or instead writing them down in symbols.

If you want to mix things up, instead go with the rune variant of symbol magic and put said runes onto/into musical instruments. They could activate whenever he plays them.

>>52176194
What does Insubstantial (Digital) *mean* though?

As for the templates, take the Micro/Main/Macroframe from TS:CT (p.55), replace DR and HP with appropriate values dependent on size, and change the perk to the correctly-sized computer. If you're a stickler, add in enough levels of Signature Gear for the frame to afford the computer they have as the Accessory. For example, Planetary Computers have roughly HP 2,000,000,000 [4,000,000,000] and DR 5,000,000 [25,000,000] based on the stats of a planet in GURPS: Supers and would need a fuckton of points to afford the Planetary Brain from "Thinking Machines" if you cared about that.

>>52176441
Easiest out-of-the-box way to do it is the Auras of Power meta-enhancement from Power-Ups 4: Enhancements with an appropriate Accessibility limitation (p. B110). The Basic Set even has "Only while playing a trumpet" as an example of Accessibility. You take Affliction that grants whatever buff (or inflicts whatever debuff) you want, add on Aura of Power (+175%) and Only while playing a specific instrument (-20%). If you want to really get into it, you can replace the Will roll with a Will-based Musical Instrument roll.

Or you could just use the Song meta-enhancement that's right after Auras of Power. I feel dumb that I didn't notice it until after I wrote everything out, but I'll be damned if I delete everything I just did.

>>52176650
So it would fall under all sort of enthrallments?

>>52176686
>out-of-the-box
>Power-Ups
I only have Basic Set and Low Tech. But this should be enough to figure it out alone. Thanks!

Am I crazy, or are imbuments mega overpriced? You have a pretty hefty upfront cost, and you need to invest a shitton of points into the skills, to make them work, and they each only apply to one weapon.

>>52176686
>What does Insubstantial (Digital) *mean* though?

A very lazy soft-scifi way of describing computer software (encapsulating upon the layman's understanding, or rather lack thereof, of computer science). Some GURPS cyberpunk games have already done this for "cyberspace."

>On going autistic with with 2 million+ HP

That is why I'd just keep 10 HP and say this equals your state as software and be done with it.

As for a planetary brain or going to Matrioshka Brains, this is not being treated as a literal single "brain" but instead a hypothetical mega-structure scale computer. The characters would run on it, and do not *become* it in the strict sense as playing as a entity on said scale.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, I'm not wanting to make this thing realistic but rather very cinematic. The way you are describing things is how I'd normally run mind emulations but that is very much not the case here.

>>52176790
Talents and Power Talents alleviate the burden somewhat. It should be somewhat cheap to get modest benefits out of imbuements, but you'll still need to specialize to eat penalties to get some of the higher tiered benefits of imbuements.

>>52176735
I mean, it just uses modifiers from the Basic Set. It adds their costs together and packages it as one trait to save space.

Baneful Song (+105%): Area Effect, 2 yards, +50%; Bard-Song, -30%; Based on Will, +20%; Emanation, -20%; Malediction 1, +100%; Reduced Duration, 1/60, -35%; Selective Area, +20%.
Beneficial Song (+105%): Area Effect, 2 yards, +50%; Bard-Song, -30%; Based on Per, +20%; Emanation, -20%; Malediction 1, +100%; Reduced Duration, 1/60, -35%; Selective Area, +20%.
Bard-Song is itself a meta-limitation found in Dungeon Fantasy (your go-to series for emulating D&D stuff in GURPS) that boils down to 1) having to play/sing, 2) cannot be in a no-mana zone, and 3) is affected by Magic Resistance and things like Dispel and is generally treated as a magic spell for most detection and defensive purposes.

The final result is a 2-yard AoE centered on the Bard; those that the bard wants to affect in that AoE roll a quick contest of their Will (to resist debuffing songs) vs. the bard's Will (or Will-based Musical Instrument or Singing if you want),or they simply roll Per (to simply hear beneficial ones). The effects last for a number of seconds after he stops equal to the bard's margin of victory/ally's margin of success, but the bard can play continuously and keep rolling to maintain the effect.

What are some of the most common house rules for gurps?

>>52176969
Can digital minds exist outside of a computer though? That's my main issue with Insubstantial; with that, they exist in the ether without running on any machine at all. They aren't even on a server at home and wandering around in VR/cyberspace (that's Jumper (Projection) to the digital realm); they are literally an intangible floating ghost.

As for the frames and stuff, you seem to be wanting to go really narrativist, which is fine.
It's not impossible or even impractical to actually use the numbers, though, if your game calls for them (e.g. cyberattacks against the omnicidal AI running on planet-sized computer have failed; lets see how many nukes we need to crack the fucker open), and using meme arrows with "hurr arbitrarily big numbers =autism!" just makes you look like an asshat.

Also, for anyone that cares, the Matrioshka Brains he's describing would be best handled by a ton of levels in Compartmentalized Mind.

>>52176441
Yep. Dungeon Fantasy 1 has a template, and DF....Power Ups has part-templates for new Bard song powers.

>>52177166
I think something that is essential, especially for more mid-high powered games, is to just do away with point costs, and have the GM arbite base don concept, and what's on the sheet.

There's so much shit that is way too expensive for what it does, and way too cheap for what it does, and so many ways to optimize shit, that you really lose out if you try to just make a fun concept work, so a good GM just letting you wrack up the points, and balancing it out between players, makes things so much better.

>>52177166
Splitting IQ from Will and Perception.
Not counting negatives on Attributes or Secondary Characteristics against the disadvantage limit.

It's kinda difficult to say what are house rules and what is canon though in a modular system like GURPS.

>>52176975
I honestly like that. Even in settings with blademagic and where blademagic can be learned by everyone, there is a reason for people to still learn mundane fighting skills because knowing supernatural tricks isn't always as useful as being able to hit everything and parry everything else (though obviously this gets less true the higher the point value; 400-point monsters can pull off insane shit with their sword AND turn it into an explosive freezing laser at reach 5 with their mind).

>>52176790
If ^this^ doesn't change your mind and your still looking to soup up/cheapen Imbuements, there are a few things to note. Like >>52176975 said, Talents help, and most dedicated fighters should have high DX already, which helps with the skills. There are also Wildcard! imbuements that let you do every imbuement you have access to to a specific class of weapon, which is good for legendary samurai, bowmen, and other weapon-specialized fighters (they also allow the opposite Wildcard! with one skill per imbuement but can be applied to any weapon, which is great for thematic characters).

I have one last idea that I've always wanted to try but never been able to. It's appropriate in a more mythic fantasy game where you can be so goddamn good with a sword that you can cut mountains it half or turn it into fire. Basically, you use the Abilities from Default rule from Powers to "stunt" your Weapon Master/Trained by a Master into the Imbuement advantage, and you let the Imbuements default to the weapon skill at -6. With a penalized Will roll and a handful of FP, you enter a state where your sword sends waves to slice from afar, or your one arrow becomes many, or you stab with such accuracy that you can impale a man's heart without breaking the skin, or whatever else.

>>52177277

Good point regarding reading insubstantial. In that case, then, I'll just house rule a new disadvantage. Alternatively, I might opt to run this in Fate Core instead as I'm indeed going prioritizing the narrative focus over realism.


As for the Matrioshka Brain, think of it more as a setting (i.e. human scale minds being run along with a simulation that their senses are linked to) rather than a character. This is not,however, the only system they'll be running on. The scale of whatever system they'll be running on depends on where in the Galaxy they will be visiting. If, though, anyone wants to treat it as a character I'd suggest going more along the lines of "god-like" AGI--taking your advice along with a thousand plus points worth of other relevant mental advantages/trace-stats.

As for posting quotes as >green text and using autism as a joke, this is 4chan. We have been talking like that for years; when in Rome do as the Romans do.

>>52177668
>Accusation of the 'tism makes you an asshat
>4chan does it all the time

Not that guy, but those two statements are not mutually exclusive my man.

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>>52177017
>Malediction 1
Could you explain?

And you can't even imagine how helpful this is for me! Thanks. No, really, honestly thank you

>>52179932
>Malediction
From the basic set
Your attack isn't built like a traditional innate attack(attack roll, range penalties etc) , but rather it is a contest of wills(typically) between user and target.

Which - and why - mod for a melee weapon is the best or at least greatly outclasses the rest? You can pick only one.

>>52181308
Balanced because bonus to skill.

>>52181308
Increased SM. More damage, better reach, more DR, harder to Parry, and able to apply more ST.

>>52179331
Solid point. You can enjoy 4chan, but never normalize it or forget that it's a repulsive sump, the lowest place in the bilges of the internet where all the scum gathers.

>>52181567
Of course this does also make the weapon heavier and require more ST to use.

>>52181444
Seconds bring. So few methods to gain a + tohit

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How do you guys do ww2? How can I make squad combat fun and interesting?

any suggestions for nazi occult?

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>>52183860
I gotchu senpai

What's the fluff difference between piercing and impaling damage?

>>52185052
It's just a descriptor for the purpose of game mechanics, nothing more.

>>52185078
What mechanics?
I can remember only pick stucking.

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>>52185725
Wound modifiers.

>>52185741
Yes.
Pi++ exactly same as imp for wounding modifier.
So why we need imp when pi++ do the same?

>>52185937
Because a spear chucked through your chest will impale you, but you aren't impaled if you're shot by a .50

>>52185052
>>52185937

IMP tends to large low velocity impacts that are relatively large, like an arrowhead, spear or thrusting weapon.

Pi++ are large, dense projectiles over about half an inch and one ounce in weight.

Note that they don't have the same wounding modifiers. IIRC, Pi++ deals more damage to limbs and homogeneous targets.

>>52186056
You are wrong. They are absolutely identical mechanics-wise.
Picks are the only exception, but we don't have swing/pi++ anyway.

>>52186086
Doesn't armor piercer modification for melee weapons change imp to (2) pi?

>>52183860
Just pick Reich-5 from Infinite Worlds. They are perfectly balanced between being dangerous, inefficient and occult.

I'm trying to organise a game of GURPS on Roll20, but I'm having a hard time finding/creating dungeon maps which work with the hex grid (I'm usually a theatre of the mind kinda guy).

Has anyone got any advice on making the whole procedure easier? Should I be drawing out my own maps on Photoshop? Are there any recommended programs for hex-dungeons?

>>52187660
Whats stopping you from keeping it TOTM and just using the status tracking / other benefits of Roll20?

>>52181308
>You can pick only one
Then I pick a pick. Swing impaling damage plus hook - what's not to like?

>>52187882
But pick is a weapon, not a modifier to one... right?

>>52187903
One of the Low Tech companions let you add a pick spike to any hafted weapon.

>>52188049
So basically you have halberd with upgrades? I guess I'm with you then on picking pick.
It could be only better if it had tits and was on fire

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>>52187660
You can always just drop a map down and put the grid on a layer above it. Even if it's not quite perfect you get close enough for a fight.

>>52187832
This is true too. You can always just describe the fight to them and throw up notes on the board to help them keep track.

>>52187882
The Gets Stuck rule means that if you don't fight one on one only and kill with the first hit every time the pick has a huge downside. Being stuck on someone limits your options hugely. Being stuck on someone's shield is just embarrassing.

>>52188158
Not him, but being stuck on someone's shield is much bigger problem for the guy using the shield than the guy with weapon stuck in it. Depending on weapon jammed in it, the shield might as well became useless, while still technically being intact.
And this is not even about the pilium meme. The easiest way to get a guy with a shield down is to make his shield useless or force him to fight for the shield, while your "wingman" wrecks his shit in the same time. Works both in duel-like environment and in battle, with formations and shit.

>>52181601
I think you've got that at least partially wrong, The worst of the internet accessible from google is here, yes, but not the worst of the worst, they congregate elsewhere.

>>52188129
I think one of the examples is a monstrosity of a halberd with an extra-long spearhead, an axe head, a pick head, AND a hammer head, plus a four-yard kusari/flail attached to the other side. It cost a fortune, weighed a ton, and required 16 ST to use every other turn, but goddamn if it didn't give you a ton of options.

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>>52188158
the sheer amount of hurt you can dish out with weapon master and a pick attached to your weapon vastly outweighs the disadvantages though, and virtually gaurantees dealing your target a major wound or forcing them to roll for death when you hit, especially with those tasty skull and vitals hits
not to mention it gives you a hook for free
putting a pick on a maul with WM and SL16 is pretty fun
something like sw+9 imp damage, or sw+2d+2 with adds to dice
at 18 ST that goes up to like 3d+11 imp, or 6d imp
high risk high reward, my nigga

>>52186086
You are wrong
Look up Injury Tolerance, and the start reading about wounding modifiers there

>>52190077
>This gives impaling and huge piercing a wounding modifier of x1
>Impaling and huge piercing have a wounding modifier of x1/2
>Impaling and piercing attacks (of any size)...
Are you trying to say something?

>>52190077
>impaling (imp)/huge piercing (pi++) down to x1 for unliving
>imp and pi++ down to x0.5 for homogenous
>imp and all piercing will never do more than 1hp for diffuse
there's still literally no difference between the two
anything else, anon?

>>52190153
>>52190229
NO NO NO I MEAN HIT LOCATIONS!!!!11

>>52190248
Bitch, please. You have something to say - say it. Otherwise shut up and stop embarrassing yourself.

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What is more intresting -- beaks have Large Pircing damage type

>>52190153
>>52190229
>>52190342

There is a minor difference in armour -- most split-DR ballistic armour has a higher DR for cutting and piercing but not impaling. Some optional rules differentiate between them too, but it's not a huge difference.

>>52190638
It is mostly about bulletproof vest or for chainmails too?

>>52190728

AFAIK, mail's reduced DR is for crushing.

>>52188049
IIRC, you can add pick to ANY swinging weapon, even a sword.

>>52191245
Hooks can be added to swords, but I think picks are hafted only.

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I want to start GMing again.

I have a setting idea in my head: a world that has been colonised long ago. Due to the strict nature of colonial life, mixed with the sense of freedom from its American predecessors, the colony has become a delightful mix of government-corporations, where in a skin-deep sense, everyone is free and has an opportunity for prosperity.

In reality, while there is no specific laws guiding people to a certain path, it is all but expected that people will go through years of schooling, take on a job in a corporation, become incredibly indebted through consumer credit, and be under constant surveillance for anything even vaguely seditious. You're free to talk and do whatever you want, until the government has a problem with it, at which point you will be tossed in prison forever. They could just murder you, but that would be Politically Incorrect (TM).

The goal would be to escape this society, and try and make it out on the fringe, where life is harsh and ruthless.

Thoughts?

Pic unrelated.

>>52192430
Sounds kinda boring to play in.

>>52192462
I mean, it's not super-original or inspired when you boil it down with little detail, but "oppressive corpocracy" and "vast lawless wilds" both seem pretty ripe for adventuring stuff.

>first round of combat in new GURPS campaign, first attack
>enemy rolls 1+1+1 against one of our party members, rolls maximum normal damage as the Critical Effect

>>52192430
>>52192658

Get a little more creative with it, maybe. Play up the commodification of everything and the illusion of freedom and free will in a world where you are always watched. Don't just use surveillance to find Dangerous Radicals.. use it for targeted advertising.

Sell people a nice, neat, controlled rebellion from the system that keeps dissent managed and controlled. Let them think they are the ones that really understand what is going on and don't play into the system while using them to forward the goals of the system and enhance the illusion of a free society.

Breaking away into the wildlands beyond corporate control cause a somewhat sudden disconnect, where one step you are an actor in a play performing exactly the role you are supposed to for the Company, with the next step there's no control or management and the greed and control are no longer nebulous, distant concepts but immediate and lethal ones where people will kill you for tools, supplies or weapons.

>77777777

>>52192895
>said enemy rolls 6+6+6 trying to block a party member's attack
Poetic justice. He's not dead yet though.

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Hey /gurpsgen/... I was thinking of making a cyborg character. I got motivation for this character from Infinity -miniature game setting.

Idea is that character could do in combat hacking. But because characters are limited basically to one action as default it is therefore impossible to do both hacking and for example running or fighting. Therefore I came up with idea that I could use compartmentalized mind for this. That way one character might be able to act physically (like running) while hacking or remote operating something else at the same time (I also make assumption that neural networks and remote operation by "thought" is possible). Assuming that hacking is mental action. I was thinking that would it be possible to remote pilot some extra puppet or body with this kind of setup? Or should I buy both compartmentalized mind and extra attack to be able to control own and extra body at the same time with one character? The concept of Post Human Proxies just tickles my mind and I'm trying to explore how to do this. I think this might even work in Transhuman Space -setting with an infomorph character.

Am I on right track or should I scrap this idea? Naturally hacking is "cinematic" in this concept.

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>>52188609

I don't know. A WM with a pick vs a broadsword weapon master..

The Pick guy hits harder, and can end a fight in one hit, but the broadsword guy's damage can take down many targets in a single hit.

The broadsword guy also retains the ability to make 2 attacks per round with Rapid, target lower DR areas like the throat, arms and legs with bonus damage from cut, and if they hit retain the ability to parry rather then falling back on Block.

MaulPick vs Greatsword only seems to make the comparison starker. A decent ST weapon master with a greatsword isn't going to need to hit many targets twice, but gets a much more flexible weapon out of the deal.

It's a somewhat minor detail, but he can also upgrade the quality on materials twice instead of once.

>>52193645
Compartmentalized Mind will work. For remote piloting, I think Mind Control (Digital) is what you want. That way you can fight and hack or fight and control a robobuddy. How is your GM handling hacking? CC&CKF?

>>52193815
On that note, for sufficiently cinematic games, ALL hacking can be Mind Control (Digital) or maybe a variant of Possession.

>>52193869
>>52193815
That's how Psionic Powers handles cyberpsi (p. 30-32). Replace the Psi (-10%) power modified with Cybernetic (-10%) to represent the brain implant/mental conditioning required to run directly with your mind and you're good to go.

>>52168018
You realize you arbitrarily hamstrung a character from doing what the player invested in, and the rules should've allowed, right?
This is like bragging how you put antimagic fields in every dungeon, really showed that smug caster.

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>>52193815
I'm bit baffled what CC & CKF is referring here to. Also that hacking part isn't really clear yet. He hasn't made any conclusive decisions because he wanted to know that we would be interested in playing -> checking what rules to use.
>>52193869
>>52193986
Interesting points there. I will explore this more just to know what is possible and what is not with mind control approach. I have a feeling that this might be bit overpowered unless it is actually just controlling the implant, not the character being hacked. That way the implant... Sorry. Now I'm typing my thought process out. But still! Thanks! This is nice food for thought :)

>>52194218
The best kind of GM is one what allows any situation to happen, with the consequences getting more fun and extreme the more unlikely the scenario. Never ever ever allow skills to not work. Just get creative with what they end up doing.

>>52194284
Sorry, CC&CKF is "Console Cowboys and Cyberspace Kung-Fu"; it's from the Cyberpunk issue of Pyramid and it's a very game-y approach to hacking that still more detailed than boiling it down to advantages. You have a bunch of programs like Spoof, Breach, and Jam and you use them to overcome the target's defensive programs like Listen, Analyze, and ICE. I guess I would call it "tactical hacking" because you decide each round what sort of cyberattack you're making and what defenses of your own you boot up; it's a big difference from most other hacking systems where, after you scrape away all the fluffy prose, everything boils down to a roll against Computer Hacking.

As for the balance of spending points on hacking advantages, if your GM allows people to straight-up buy Netrunning or Remote Control or I/O Tap or whatever, then he should let the gunbunny buy Gunslinger and Enhanced Tracking and the face to buy Charisma 4, Handsome, Social Regard, etc. People are going to be very good at what they specialize in. Also note that Netrunning and Remote Control both only affect digital minds, meaning AIs or normal computers; you can't mind control meatbags, and even heavily cyberized individuals are up to the GM on if they are affected.

>>52194495
Which pyramid it is in? I feel like I should check this one. Seems very interesting; especially that "tactical hacking" approach. Thanks!

>>52177577
>Splitting IQ from Will and Perception.

What did he mean by this?

>>52194977
IQ costs 20/level and doesn't raise Will or Perception. They're independent, or "split."
http://www.mygurps.com/index.php?p=i&a=1h&v=0#

>>52168018
>>52194218
>>52194285

I feel like you'd be better to say "Your knowledge of Diplomacy reveals that he's unlikely to move. You have little to offer in trade and are not in a position of strength. You could try to make friends with them, but they aren't likely to make much progress as they see you as an uninvited guest while they are trying to work."

There's a big difference between allowing things to happen and allowing open ended, goal-less Diplomacy rolls to reap large rewards. A diplomacy roll should be to try and get to a goal. If that goal isn't reasonable or realistic diplomacy will tell you so, not make people agree anyway.

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Can someone explain this?

>>52197342
It was part of a joke. No point even trying to explain it now

>>52194852
It's the Cyberpunk issue. It's pretty early in the series, I want to say #21, but you should be able to find it by Googling "GURPS pyramid cyberpunk" or just browsing though the MEGA.

Thoughts?

Prayer:
A prayer is a quick, verbal plea to the god for attention and succor. This is worth a single Rune Point on a successful Religious Ritual roll, and can be performed once per day.
A more powerful but indirect use of prayer is in sending aid to a community’s heroes, and can be used to augment the capabilities of a hero by temporarily manipulating his game statistics. This is a direct transaction between the man praying (the supplicant) and the hero; a deity is not involved.
The actual benefits which a hero may accumulate from prayers are as far-reaching as the GM wishes. These rules essentially allow prayer to provide temporary Character Points (CP) such as those used during character creation – with the removal of all restrictions. Prayer thus allows heroes access to advantages (such as Damage Resistance or Extended Lifespan) or inhuman attribute and skill levels that would normally be banned during character creation. It is important to note that these CP are spent by the community for the hero, and last only as long as the supplicants continue to pray.
Each person praying for the hero provides the equivalent of one GURPS Character Point, which can be “spent” to improve the hero – the way in which these points are spent is determined by the supplicants. A hero may ask his community to pray for his strength or his skill or whatever else he likes, but it is ultimately their decision – the GM should be forgiving in this regard. This improvement lasts for one day, and can be extended for as long as the supplicants continue to pray for the hero.
Such prayer can be augmented using any of the below methods of worship (sacrifice, ritual, location, and time) and provide a number of CP equal to the number of RP they would normally provide. If this occurs, these RP are not concurrently generated for those carrying out the worship – they are directly converted to CP for the hero and are lost to the supplicants.

>>52192462

Elaborate.

>>52193573

Top-level advice, thank you. I'd already thought about playing up the consumerist aspect, but didn't think about the depth of it.

Has anyone here used syntactic magic? What're your thoughts on it?

Considering using it for a Doctor Strange-style, well, style of magic. The movie, not the comics.

>>52199346
It can be awesome or awful; it all comes down to how you design the lexicon and price each word. For example, if you want blasty mages, don't make Fire/Energy/Destroy/whatever cost a lot.

>>52197342
Pretty sure that combination of skills will lead to a really good night for one person, and something out of a Doujin for the other.

What books kind of explain how to play a bunch of gangsters in a tl7-8 setting?

>>52200346
like lets say I want to simulate, strong arm robberies, drug deals, break-ins, etc.

>>52200346
Play Mafia, GTA and Saints Row series.

>>52200661
maybe if there aren't any books that deal with what I'm looking for, you should say so, instead of being such a massive faggot.

>>52200346

You''ll be wanting some parts of Martial Arts, Social Engineering, and whatever the book is that has that merchant stuff. That'll give you any extra deets you may need/want. Heck, even the City Stats book might be helpful, if you're doing business in multiple cities.

You're also fine with just the Basic Set as well.

>>52200852
>whatever the book is that has that merchant stuff.
Thanks.

Do you know if that is somewhere in DF or a Pyramid?

>>52200346
>>52200510
Basic Set and Action 2. High-Tech for excessive gear porn, Social Engineering and Social Engineering: Pulling Rank for social aspects/mafia. Martial Arts has a few useful rules for melee fighting (Telegraphic Attack, Committed Attack, Grab & Smash), but most of it isn't necessary.

For 4E Transhuman Space, does one purchase Shells at full price, only the most expensive shell at full price and the rest as minions, or all as minions? Looking through examples in various books, it seems really inconsistent.

>>52200065
What's the advantage of Syntactic over, say, Ritual Path?

>>52201077

Pretty sure it was a Pyramid article. Honestly, I was hoping it'd ring a bell to you, or someone else, because it left my library a while back.

>>52201741
From the perspective of the GM or the player/character?

>GM
RPM isn't a great system to just drop into a campaign; it assumes a certain type of setting (specifically ones with hidden magic and more subtle workings) and not all GMs are comfortable messing with it to fit more openly-fantasy settings. Symbol/Syntactic makes less assumptions on that front and presents itself as a toolkit (e.g. it straight-up tells GMs to make a lexicon) rather than as a finished product like RPM which facilitates fine-tuning the rules to the campaign. Lastly, S/S is just simpler than RPM; add the words' FP costs and time together to find a basic spell, and doing more costs more. All in all, it's a touch more "freeform" than RPM.

>Player/Character
The simplicity can be a big deal here for players that don't like bookkeeping. S/S can also be pretty impressive in ways RPM struggles with, like big blastly spells (though this comes down to the lexicon; if Create and Fire have a total cost of 8 FP and take 10 seconds and it's hard to increase AoE/Damage, then S/S will also have shitty blasty spells). Assuming both styles of magic exist in the setting, some mages might prefer S/S because RPM requires sanctified spaces, contagions, etc. while S/S is very friendly to casters in the field without requiring additional expensive advantages. Syntactic also has the benefit of being relatively fast (Symbol is actually slower than RPM in it's basic form, though this gets muddled with both RPM and Symbol allowing prepared spells that are cast quickly).

>>52201893
Thanks!

I'll look around

>>52201422
Most expensive that you have for full price, rest as minions. If you lose the most expensive one, then the next expensive one is the "new" most expensive and change accordingly. Unless you can recover your "original" body.

>>52203142
I suppose that's where the Mutable Point Totals come in. Would I just have to use it as a sort of luck system, or do you think there's a more hard mechanical way to deal with it?

>>52203311
I didn't quite understand what you are asking. Mostly after the game has started I don't really pay much attention to point totals. Just so that I know how "generally" powerful characters are.

But if you mean that how to handle case where character wants "better" body during game when their Point Total has dropped? Money is one way to go or an adventure where they get that new body. Just don't get too stuck on point totals when the game is already running (this is the case with Cyber- and Bioshells). Just try to have a general idea where they are going with. I tried to track everything and lost my way in previous campaign. Now I'm trying to be bit more lax with it and focus on the story. Going much better.

>>52203542
I'll make an attempt to do that. Thanks Anon.

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So I was thinking of running a TL6 Wild West-style campaign and I've been trying to come up with stats for some generic enemies. Anyone got any good suggestions?

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One time I played a 13 shaman in a vaguely fantasy setting of the gm's creation. He was a pacific islander who was chosen by an ancient ocean spirit to protect it. The incident bleached his hair.

He also talked like a typical surfer dudebro.
He also had the highest IQ in the party and Magery 5.

Worst part? Probably only the second most ridiculous character, behind "Ken, of the Fisterino Puncharoo Style."

>>52204950
best thing about the setting is ANYONE can pick up a pistol and take a shot. Which means you really just need to know who is pissed in a given scene and figure out their skill level. Which will typically be DX default + aim (maybe)

>>52205740
Well yeah, but I meant more specifically.

For your regular run-of-the-mill outlaw I was thinking probably baseline-10 stats, a few ranks in guns - pistol, riding, definitely fast draw and possibly fanning the hammer.

Is 100 points too much to base a mook on?

Serious question, even if it might sound like a bait:
Is there ANY reason why not to take excessive ranks in Magery? I mean the adv is so broken, there is literally no point of making magic user without it, unless for role-playing reasons

Or am I'm missing something? Combat Reflexes, as powerful as they are, are one-off advantage for 15 points. Magery has ranks, while is absurdly powerful and relatively cheap.

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>>52205959
There's a maximum normal rank to it. It caps off. And yes, while it does easily add to spellcasting, a GM should associate an appropriate but of notoriety to those with MAXIMUM SPELLCASTING

>>52205994
So basically everything is ok as long as GM allows it?

>>52205959
GMs can always veto characters they feel are inappropriate. "Muh RAW" is not a defense in GURPS. Also, the Basic Set recommends a cap, so even GMs that feel tied to RAW are unlikely to let Magery 18 slide. Lastly, going balls deep in to Magery makes for a poorly-rounded character; investing at least a bit into IQ gives your character a leg up on a TON of other useful skills ranging from lore to practical survival to social skills.

Megumin only bought up Magery. Don't be like Megumin.

>>52205959
>Is there ANY reason why not to take excessive ranks in Magery?
Because I might want to do other things than casting spells?

>>52206084
I'm not talking about Magery 10 or more, not to mention 18, but any more ranks than 3 feels for me like absurdity, even in Supers games.

>Don't be like Megumin
I don't even know what you are talking about now

>>52206103
Yeah, but by default you are picking this for a caster, so... yeah

>>52206215
>Yeah, but by default you are picking this for a caster
A boring caster, from the sound of it.

>>52206297
>>52206215
>>52206103
>>52206084
>>52205994
>>52205959
This is one of the core arguments against using the default magic system.
Take a look at the options presented in the last ten years of 4th edition. Suggest them to the GM and see what he wants to run.

>>52206404
>This is one of the core arguments against using the default magic system.
Other magic systems using magery too.

>>52206297
Boring or not, it provides a big advantage for peanut price. I've got a player in my group who always looks for cheap and reliable source of power in games to always feel in control against any form of thread the GM throws at us, and even he considers Magery too broken to bother.

>>52206426
Wut?

>>52206545
>wanting to feel in control
>as a player
People sure are strange. I consistently find myself having more fun when my character is in over his head and everything spirals out of control.

>>52206659
I don't mind. He's the type of min-maxer you want to have on your side, because aside professionaly abusing the system, he's also a neat role-player and never breaks the flow of the game or steal the scene for himself. Kind of like a card-counter in your blackjack table, who helps you out just because he can screw the casino more by doing so

>>52206426
This is why Sorcery (in my opinion, at least) is a much better magic system. It costs to buy Sorcerous Empowerment, and it costs for Sorcery Talent (should the Soreceror want to be better at getting his spells to stick), and each spell costs as well, yet there's wiggle room through improvisation, so the player won't feel like they're *too* cheated.

>>52206827
>Implying slappin absurdly useless limitations for discount and stacking AAs was good

>>52206877
Back that assertion up with evidence OR SO HELP ME

>>52206925
Not him, but he's right. RPM is probably the least broken and arbitrary magic in entire GURPS and it too has its quirks.
Magic works great as powers and inate abilities, but collapses almost entirely the moment you go for direct spells, since it will be all about either arbitrary limits or limit so lax there is virtually none.

Are there any rules that deal with the PCs taking loans from banks or organizations?

>>52206998
>organizations
I meant to write people, but I guess they both apply

>>52206998
>>52207014
>Take money from X
>Give back X+n after Y units of time
Wow, what a complex set of rules! Totally worth entire supplement, GURPS: Usury

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>>52207381

>>52207672
>>>/pol/
And I don't give a fuck if you are "just joking".

>>52207672
Godwin's law strikes again

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>>52207887
lol look at this butt blasted peasant.

>>>reddit

>>52207381
>>52207887
Are you overweight and friendless? Just wondering.

>>52208284
Not the original poster, but yes.

>>52206998
>>52207381
Jesus yes.
I'd let the players roll diplomacy/administration/merchant/economics to get a better rate and that's about it.
I'm not sure making a whole adventure out of taking a loan would be a good idea.

>>52207672
>>52208249
>>52208284
>in a fucking /gurpsgen/
This place is really falling apart without moot

>>52209380
While I also don't see a point for mechanics for this, I would say two words: Eternal Flame.
Entire adventure based on taking loans, bulk trading, inside trading and a fuckload of machinations and price leverage.
Also, it does make a difference from who you are taking the "loan". After all, certain sad, burly men might show one day and say it's time to repay your debt, while carrying a shears and a power drill for your fingers and knees.

>>52209454
But see, you're including bulk trading and inside trading there. It's not just a loan anymore.

And really, most modern day PCs don't have the connections to find loan money elsewhere than banks.

>>52206998
For simple rules there is a Debt disadvantage in the core books. Beyond that, it's not an area where it comes up often.

>>52209380
Depending on the situation, those skills might or might effect the rate. It's quite possible they will also just allow you to get the loan at all.

Money lending is a complicated matter, and could be the subject for a whole book. Most players aren't going to know much about it or like the idea of taking on debt, so keeping it simple is okay too.

>>52209494
Well, they can get money from credit card companies, the financing operations of banks directly, the government, friends and family, ect.

There's also a lot of different types of loans from banks.

>>52209494
Yeah, but all of it was funded by money that didn't exist in the first place. If I recall well, at certain point a mill owned by a father-in-law was used as a security for a fuck-huge loan, without any ways of making sure it won't be lost.

Anyway, if you never read it before - go, find it and enjoy it. Bunch of neat ideas to use in pretty much any game to provide your players with cash, but only if they are shrewd enough.

>>52209454
>Eternal Flame
? ? ?

Rings me nothing

>>52210049
Witcher short story. If I recall correctly, the "Sword of Destiny" collection of shorts was finally published in English, plus there are fan translations since early 00s. Even if you don't like witcher or are completely indifferent toward it, read it. The collection is the very reason why witcher is/was good in the first place, while everything else is just a meme or ultra-generic stuff.

Also, shitload of monstergirl waifu stuff.

Quick question on duplications, the rules say "If one of your dupes dies, all the others immediately take 2d damage and are stunned" Does this include the player or just the dupes.

>>52210782
I believe all.

Thinking about getting into GURPS, is there any ill effects created by allowing both guns and magic together? I want to do something pretty kitchen sink.

>>52211463
Depends on the magic system and the tech level of firearms you're allowing, but *in general* firearms are superior in terms of raw damage (especially over a protracted period), so players of mage characters should remember to focus on utility, buffs/debuffs, odd injury types (especially Fatigue and Corrosion damage) and finely-tuned AoEs for when grenades are too much.

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>>52211463
Not at all.

If you are thinking kitchen sink, at least look up Infinite Worlds, if not outright read it.

>>52211990
*Non at all

>>52210367
Speaking of Witcher, did anyone finally made a dryad template for that fanmade GURPS Witcher?
I mean how hard it can be to make a low-point template for hot chicks that are able to perfectly camouflage in the greenery?

>>52213373
We talking invisibility(foliage) or stealth++(foliage only)?

>>52206084
But Megumin is best wizard-fu.
Quick, someone stat Megumin!

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>>52214410
I already did.

>>52214135
I think we talking both, especially when it's a born dryad and not just naturalised human girl.

>>52215230
Nice.

Shiiiiiiit I need some combat stats ASAP. What would you give a:
-Monster tick the size of a large dog
-Less monstrous tick the size of a small dog
-A yard-wide swarm of rat-sized ticks

>>52211884
>>52211990
I was researching the magic systems yesterday and thought that Sorcery would probably work best for my group as we've never particularly enjoyed large amounts of bookeeping or giant spell-lists. For types of firearms I was thinking pretty modern, revolvers and machine guns, to keep in line with a "fantasy-chic" style you see in like FFVIII and XV.

Overall thanks for the advice, I'll make sure to check out Infinite Worlds as well.

>>52216499
Swarms need to be damaged by explosions. Injury tolerance diffuse

Ticks have soft but resilient shells. They also have blood thinning venom. Make their bites bleed like a bitch (follow-up cyclic toxic damage)

Another Transhuman Space question; if you're supposed to apply the Minimal Software template to any shell that isn't your "primary" one, does that not end up with shells costing no points at all? It seems it's far too easy to get one good shell, then multitudes of almost-as-good shells, especially if you apply Minimal Software and don't put NAIs or LAIs in them.

>>52218186
And to that end, what if a human or bioroid ends up buying one? Do you still count the highest costing one as their primary?

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Any tips on running over the top, cinematic games with the system?
I never GMed GURPS before, but I wanna run a Mad Max/Fist of the North Star kind of game, and I wanna encourage my players to do crazy stuff. How many CP should I allow? Also, does a high CP budget alone allow for a cinematic experience or should I change something else?
The idea is making the PCs very powerful in comparison to the average grunt, with gang leaders and other "boss characters" being the true challenges. How do I accomplish this?

>>52218380
You could write a book on your questions alone.

Summary:
Yes, you can do over the top cinematic games.
You probably shouldn't do it for your first GURPS game, but I won't stop you.
Depends on how amazing they're supposed to be. 500 points is enough for a cinematic badass with kung fu powers.
You'll want to use cinematic rules for your game.

Recommended books:
>GURPS Lite
This helps you understand the GURPS core rules.
>How to Be a GURPS GM
Helps you get used to GURPS and customizing it.
>Action 2
How to run action/adventure anything in GURPS. Very useful for most games.
>Basic Set
Duh.
>Martial Arts
For kung-fu bullshit (builds off of Basic Set)
>Powers
For advanced kung-fu bullshit (builds off of Basic Set)

Ask lots of questions here. You've got a long road ahead of you. Ganbatte!

So I'm trying to model plasma weapons from Fallout. Should they have a high armor divisor, deal corrosion damage, or both?

>>52218380
>Mad Max/Fist of the North Star
So I guess we are talking Fury Road exclusively here?

Just make it 200/-50 for PCs and keep NPCs around 100

>>52220132
High armour divisor. Also, limitation against certain types of armours.

>>52220132
A high armor divisor, but considering some armor resistance that means hardening some upper class power suits

>>52218186
>>52218230
With minimal software that doll body does nothing. It just is. If you want it to move somewhere you have to carry or move it there where you want it to be. If you put at least basic NAI in it then it will cost bit more. Do note though, only [Infomorph PC] can buy extra bodies this way and _be_able_ to use them as an extra body because the infomorph entity posseses said doll body.

But to be more specific. Pay attention to that you are effectively buying an ally when you are buying the body. When the point total of the body goes negative, you are still paying for an ally according to the cheapest category in [Basic Set] (that 25% point total one) and apply the relevant modifiers to that. So you arn't getting the body for free, but really cheap. On the other hand, your main body usually costs quite a lot so this is there to make it bit less painful.

So... If you want to buy a bio/cybershell for human or bioroid, you would follow rules for buying an ally normally. So basically the same way infomorph buys one but there is issue that you can't [possess] it because you arn't an infomorph yourself therefore making it as a spare body quite useless. Unless you manage to upload yourself to become informorph. Pay attention that Minimal Software tempalte with some cybershell body is just mindless immobile doll. That is why it so good for infomorph extra body but for normal human it is just something you can operate remotely.

So if you as a human or bioroid want a cybershell to follow you around and do things, then buy it as an ally with proper NAI, LAI or even SAI (depending on legality ofcourse) template and proper programs (skills).

Did this answer your question? Sorry for poor spelling, doing this through cellphone is bit difficult.

>>52218230
As a human or bioroid you already have a body you are in (the one you were born in). So if you want a cybershell, you just take it as an ally.

If you start taking the templates etc. directly as is to your character sheet then you are in effect adding features to your body you are born with and that isn't what you are after. I think.

If you are going for the idea of digital upload of human, then check Ghost Mind Emulation or Shadow Mind Emulation templates. If just going as a brain in the box that can change bodies, then I can't say what to do as such. I need to look that one up. Total cyborgs arn't quite a thing by default in THS if I recall right but shouldn't be a problem if you want to add them.

Could anyone tell me how many points you'd normally build a regular, run-of-the-mill opponent with at TL6?

>>52223679
You mean an NPC your players would face as an enemy?
Bout 75

>>52223771
>>52223679
Give or take. Tens across the board, maybe a 12 in a professional skill. Goons would have a primary skill trained, and if they're reliable, a 12 in that as well

>>52223679
Depends on the PCs.
And I wouldn't even use points anyway, run-of-the-mill opponents don't need much more than "has 12 in guns" or such.

>>52223679
Depending on how competent they are supposed to be, anything between 70 to 90 (the more "elite" troops will be closer to 90).
If your players are above 125/-25, for each 5 above that number add roughtly 1 to run-of-the-mill NPCs

Speaking as someone who has never GMed GURPS and not made NPCs for it, would it be too lazy for me to give the NPCs nebulous Expert Skills?

As in, if I made a generic bandit, I'd give him 10 in all basic attributes, and something like Shooting-12, Brawling-10, Riding-12 and Expert Skill (Banditry)-10 in the case he needs to do something that isn't fighting.
Would that be sufficient for most nameless grunts?

>>52224209
I believe that is the general method most people go with here.

>>52224209
In my experience, the detail should scale to the NPC's importance. Mooks and cannon fodder don't even get attributes in my game: they get Move, DR, and Skill, and they roll against Skill to do anything they're supposed to be good at or skill-6 otherwise.

Are there any rules that deal with random encounters or tables somewhere? Maybe in DF...? Anyone know?

>>52224814
No special rules for random encounters; a few adventures do have some random encounter tables; DF8 has a mechanic for random treasure, but I kinda wish that the table was arranged better to sort them in some ***objective*** manner of value to make it easier to control the quality of loot dispersed.

>>52223565
It does answer my question; though I think you're forgetting humans can teleoperate shells. Either way though, thanks for the detailed answer it does very much clear things up.

>>52223565
>>52225417
I just realized I missread a bit of what you said. Okay, yes, you did answer my question in full, and I suppose the teleoperating thing, looking at the penalties and restrictions for non-infomorphs, makes sense. Anyways, thanks a ton again anon.

Why is cost of living not the only thing you have to pay for with starting cash. I'm not exactly sure why there's the 80% thing when you can just use cost of living to determine living expenses

>>52225546
I'm not sure wha tyou're question is?

The 80% is for things like meals, a place to live and transportation.

Build advice.

I'm working on a character whose primary defense is Psychokinetic Shield (PK shield, or TK shield for short).

The shield works by applying DR towards an attack when I successfully roll vs skill to use it. If I use it as a *block* (skill/2 + 3, as per any other active defense) the DR is doubled.

Assuming skill 18 (enough to reliably power block with a cloak, full defense or feverish defense), what would be the practical level of shield to take in a 200-250 point TL4 campaign?

I'm thinking 5. I can stop unarmed attacks without trying, most melee hits with a basic block, and really hard hits with a boosted extra effort roll (since psychic powers get a +5 if the hit would kill or incapacitate you).

>>52223771
>>52223815
>>52223863
>>52224047
Yeah that's what I thought. We usually run on players having the standard 150 points and I started making an enemy on 100 points but quickly realized that it was turning into a straight killing machine instead of a nameless mook. I might be overthinking it, but I'm the kind of person that likes to do things right and proper.

>>52227336
But doesn't cost of living already fulfill that role? Basic Set Page 265.

>>52227419
Way overthinking it.
A 50 points killing machine can definitely kill a 400 points noble, too.
Just make cards without the points.

>>52224814
Just steal stuff from OSR games. It is what I do. Random tables and hex crawls among other things transfer easily. A great way to mine for ideas.

Thinking of having two buff conjoined twins as a mid level boss for my players. I guess i could just bullshit it all and make it work, but how would you guys do it? I'm thinking of something along the lines of Hammer and Sickle from Arkham City but still conjoined. One using a large shield with shield wall training, the other being the main damage dealer.

>>52230072
You do you man

Treating them as one complicated body?
Or two bodies with a movement restriction?

>>52230072
Two NPCs, each with One Arm/Leg disadvantage, mitigated by their other NPC.

>>52230126
>>52230110

Hey, I guess that's a pretty nice and straight forward way of doing it. Adding some movement restrictions would be logical. But how would you solve the problem of one of them dying? Having one brothers weight affect the other once he dies?

>>52230198
Yep. He is now simply deal weight, on top of being on one leg

>>52230198
Treat the body as being 150 lbs. for the purpose of encumbrance, as much as a "normal" human body. You can go higher if the twins are larger. -1 to -2 DX would also be good.

>>52230232
>>52230238

Thanks guys

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>>52230252

Hey /gurpsgen/, totally new gurps DM here.

I want to make my first session soon and would like to know how much points to give my players. They will start as above average humans, and gain special abilties after a certain point which get better over time. I was planing on giving them ~100 points in the beginning, but I'm not sure how much to give them when they learn their abilities.

Also what are some rules that I should ignore for my first sessions? Anything I should keep in mind?

The setting will be Hunter X Hunter for those interested and they will get Nen after a certain point of time.

>>52221023
>>52222884
What armor divisor do you recommend?

>>52230812
How To Be a GURPS GM is a lifesaver; I cannot recommend it more highly.

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>>52231315
Maybe a (5) and have the better power armors hardening put it down to (2) or (3)

>>52220132
>>52231315
Why not just use Ultra-Tech's plasma rifles?

>>52231818
That could work. Though I need to change the range to match Fallout's lore.

>>52231578
Ok thanks, I'm looking into it right now.

Would you say Martial Arts or Powers would be recommended for what I'm planing? I don't want my players or even myself be overwhelmed.

>>52231818
because /Ultratech/
Yeech

>>52232086
Powers is pseudo-core. It adds some very important generic advantages and adds a LOT in the way of enhancements and limitations. It adds more options, which can be a bit of an issue if players are already suffering from decision paralysis, but it doesn't really add more complexity by itself and the added options are more than worth it.

Martial Arts is baller, but not really essential. I would save that for later, because it really does add a lot of complexity. New players and recent D&D converts will already be enjoying having the options from the Basic Set (I can personally confirm), so you don't super need more than that.

>>52232318
Thanks, really helpful.

If I want to make above average humans in a modern setting (maybe with a few martial arts or weapon skills) should I give them 100-120 points?

How many points should I give them later when they get their superpowers (they start on the weaker side and get better over time)? Is 50 too much to start with?

>>52232384
those numbers sound fine.
Id limit them at chargen to about -30 down to -50 max in disadvantages. Be wary of anything with a super low resistance roll(like pyromania,phobia or addiction) or a super high frequency(like enemies). They can make for a big dip, but will make that PC revolve around the disad, which might be troublesome.

Also, a great houserule is to (within reason) exempt buying up and down basic stats from the disad pool. Only track actual disadvantages in the pool of points allowed, and make sure to vet anyone with weird basic stats (liek taking a sweet 6 in IQ, and being a literal drooling mongoloid)

>>52232456
Nice. Some other question.

In my setting armor is not usually worn, but I read all the time that combat gets way too deadly like this. Should I just let them use armor anyway or is there a better workaround?

>>52232520
>In my setting armor is not usually worn
why?

>>52232529
Well I'm making a Hunter X Hunter setting where just about noone wears armor.
But like I said I could just let them wear it anyway.

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>>52232716
>Hunter X Hunter
WHY do they not wear armor in this setting?

>>52232892
Typical Anime thing I guess. Why bother with armor when you will be destroyed by a single hit anyway?

>>52232716
There's some middle ground to work with. Karate and Judo take encumbrance penalties, and I'm assuming however you handle Nen will also utilize encumbrance penalties. Armor tends to be heavy--not crippling so, but noticeably heavy--so for most people in a martial arts game, armor affects their ability to fight. Veteran martial artists and Nen users will likely eschew armor in favor of skilled parries, graceful dodges, and supernatural defenses, but newbies should probably just eat the penalty so to not get splattered and only slough it when they're ready. It also lets you bring in odd opponents like fighters that use unpenalized Boxing and Wrestling, or that one guy that shows up to the tournament with a sword/staff/spear/mace/really big rock.

>>52232972
On that note, Nen and chi-inspired abilities in general tend to have one of Armor Divisor/Cosmic (No DR) for your steel-piercing punches, Malediction for attacking chi directly, or simply damage out of line with realistic values for HNK-style explosions and miscellaneous bullshit (represented in its most basic form as a high-damage Innate Attack).

So yeah armor may not be that useful against serious enemies, making their weight REALLY not worth it.

>>52232984
>>52233066
Just what I wanted to hear.

Im still unsure how Nen abilities (made from advantages, magic, psionics and similar) will fare against guns. Maybe I just wont allow guns

>>52233121
Yeah letting in guns sounds like a fast way to get players to reenact that one scene from Indiana Jones.

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>>52233121
>Maybe I just wont allow guns
better to present it as "Maybe there are just no guns in this game"
Less of a NO, more of a "Here's the stuff we are using today"

>>52233171
Yeah this is what I wanted to do

>>52233161
>>52233171
The setting is normaly TL8, but there will be no firearms, explosives or high-tech armor. Should I just lower the starting gold to TL5 or something similar?

>>52227478
That 80% is for your hard assets. Not what you pay monthly as the cost of living. But what you have saved up and used to buy necessaries in the past

>>52228456
Thanks. Anything you can suggest for sci if or modern settings?

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New to GURPS here.
Are Innate Attacks the best way to build special moves like Hadouken and Shoryuken?

>>52232520
Let them buy Damage Resistance with "Doesn't stack with armor, -20%". Then they'll have a reason to ignore armor.

>>52234491
For newbies, yes. You can do it via other approaches (Imbuements being the top choice for me), but IAs are the best for those that don't want to dive in to subsystems.

For HEAT rounds, it adds an armor divisor of 10 as well as a linked crushing explosion. How much damage is the linked crushing explosion? If I use this round in a grenade launcher, is it equal to the base damage of the launcher?

>>52235313
I usually assumed it is a normal explosive damage for explosive filler. However this may not be accurate, you should take the look at included HEAT shells in High-Tech and see whether this checks out with real numbers.

>>52235399
>>52235313
Okay, I just looked in High-Tech. HEAT shell for 105mm howitzer has 6dx4 linked cr ex damage, which means 4 pounds of TNT. Real life shell contains ~3 pounds of pentolite, which has REF 1.3, so yeah, numbers check out.

So how exactly do you USE an Innate Attack? Is it based on the Innate Attack skill?
I know it's a dumb question but I'm still trying to grasp the system.

>>52235519
Yep, you need Innate Attack advantage to have it, but attack roll is made with Innate Attack skill. However, I'm not sure whether built-in firearms statted as IA require IA (projectile) skill or Gun skills.

>>52234498
I like your idea.
Should I limit them from getting it to 5DR from the get go? Seems really powerful for the cost otherwise

>>52235567
I am not sure if it's RAW, but it's pretty common to use whatever skill is more appropriate, be it relevant Guns specialty for built-in guns or Whip for innate attacks with Jet modifier.

>>52235567
Using a different skill other than Innate Attack doesn't affect cost, but you have to specify which skill when you take the ability.

>>52235476
so what does that mean for damage? What will happen if I put a heat round in a nade launcher?