/btg/ Battletech General!

haha butte hold also amaris did nothing wrong

>>52094507
I kinda want to see a LBX20 AC HB 2c now. The concept, I'm gonna die but I'm taking all the planes and tanks out with me.

Can someone whip one up for me?

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Third times the charm.

Emphasized the protective plating and housing of the Medium Lasers in the arms to make the PPC look more menacing.

>>52094625
Looking excellent, man
How long does it usually take you to do one of these? I'm curious
Also, are you doing anything for the /ntg/ro? Because if not you should

>>52094624
It's a straight swap, and loses a lot of the punch, since you've only got 10 shots total.

>>52094700
I was fuzzy on the tonnage and can't bring up SSW on my phone.Thanks.

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>>52094659
>How long does it usually take you to do one of these?

For a slightly refine concept like with the Battle Cobra, Lineholder and Warhammer II I've done, it takes between 3-5 hours of casual drawing.

Less if I've got an idea for how it's supposed to look like in my head already, more if I'm forced to go back and forth changing, refining and redefining elements of the 'design.'

Sometimes something as simple as a pose can take me fucking 30 minutes just to come up with something that compliments the design.


>Also, are you doing anything for the /ntg/ro?
That's entirely up for debate.

>>52094720
This might be presumptuous, but do you take requests? A drawing of >>52083542 's loadout would be groovy.

NEA if you're here can you post your rundown on warship types and their roles?

and your thoughts on this article:
https://geeksnewengland.org/2015/05/15/on-the-taxonomy-of-spaceships/

>>52094720
>>52094625
These two are too squat for my taste.

>>52094720
It looks like it's carrying a pair of weird duffel bags of death.

>>52094909
That's the cobra for ya.

Would the AC/2 and /5 be viable weapons if they were at their LAC weights but retained the standard range brackets?

>>52095243
the 5 would be cool at 5 tons, but I'd drop the 2 to 3 tons.

>>52094720
Are these saved anywhere? Or is the only way to see them one of these threads?

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>>52095473
Think someone has been uploading my doodles to the battletech tg booru.

Check there.

There's no nametag for them, because I'm a drawfag with no name.

Not bad at all. Perfectly acceptable versions of the originals. I still prefer the original Merlin but your Cobra is nicer.

>>52095558
His merlin looks a lot like what I'd imagine a hypothetical MWO merlin to look like

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>>52095640
That's where it all started, really.

An art contest on MWO forums, and I just started doodling classic mechs in an MWO style reminiscent of what Alex would do.

>>52094765

Sure. Also, that article is way too long to comment on. It's mostly right insofar as historical roles, but doesn't mention that the classification of a ship is also heavily influenced by politics. I think it's Japan who isn't allowed to have naval vessels larger than a DD, so they build cruisers and CALL them DDs.

>Corvette (CVT)
Corvettes are lightweight, generally lightly-armed vessels that are generally used for short-range commerce raiding or a close blockade of merchant shipping. As such, they need to be relatively fast in normal space (so as to run down merchant DropShips), and have sufficient firepower to overwhelm a single DropShip. Armor is definitely secondary because they're not intended to face meaningful capital-scale weapons, but fuel and supplies are not, as they may need to remain on-station for significant amounts of time. DropShip collars are not necessary; at most they'd carry 1.

>Destroyer (DD)
Fleet escorts. Destroyers should have sufficient speed to remain evasive much of the time and still keep up with larger craft. Their roles are to use WarShip ECM to screen larger vessels, use layered anti-fighter armaments to *destroy* attacking aerospace fighters (hence, "destroyer"), and to project anti-capital ship fire. As such, their weapons should generally consist of bracket-capable naval lasers (for AAA use) and capital missiles for antiship use, although some might use a few very large-calibre guns for antiship purposes instead. Armor and SI are high priority; they can't screen larger ships if they're dead. Cargo space, DropCollars, and fuel are low priority - fleet tenders should be providing most of these.


>cont

>>52095992

>Frigate (FF)
Whereas a DD is made to escort capital ships, frigates are made in the same displacement range and made to operate alone as commerce raiders and reconnaissance ships. Armor and SI are reduced in favor of cargo and fuel, and weapons are intended to be enough to overwhelm both merchants and a WarShip escort of roughly CVT class. Anti-fighter duties are more defensive than a DD; whereas a DD seeks out fights with ASF squadrons and smashes them at range, an FF uses fighter-scale guns to defend itself against 1-2 squadrons of ASFs carried by the targets (if it kills the target, the ASFs will generally surrender since otherwise they're guaranteed to die once they run out of gas). 0-2 Drop Collars are carried; some factions like having parasite craft, others don't want to devote parts and gas storage to supporting them, in favor of increased direct-combat abilities. L-F batteries are ESSENTIAL.

>Light Cruiser (CL), Heavy Cruiser (CA)
Light Cruisers and Heavy Cruisers all generally share the same duties and mission profile, and are mostly separated by mass and survivability. The line between them is blurry and is relative to the operating faction; one faction's "light" cruiser may be a heavy cruiser in another faction. All cruisers are made to travel long distances (ie, "cruise), and generally act as a "jack-of-all-trades." A cruiser should be able to contribute meaningfully to escorting a BB or larger ship, fast enough to hunt down merchants, and project a meaningful amount of anti-ship firepower. Cruiser-classified ships have by far the widest range of potential builds, depending on what the constructing power wants out of them.

>cont

>>52096008

>Battlecruiser (BC)
The explicit jobs of a Battlecruiser are to hunt down and kill enemy cruisers, and to use their superior normal space speed to position themselves against enemy capital ships (BBs and DNs) in such a way as to significantly disadvantage the enemy. Battlecruisers tend to have relatively large fuel fractions (they may not be faster than a CA, but they can burn their fuel for longer), large levels of armor for their SI, fewer but heavier-hitting gun mounts, low magazine space, and relatively low SI for their mass. BCs will almost always have at least 2 DropShip collars, usually capping out at 5. BCs have little in the way of conventional fighter defenses, instead depending on parasite fighter carriers to screen them, so they can use internal tonnage for more engines/guns.

>Battleship (BB)
The Battleship is made specifically to engage and kill other WarShips of almost any size. They give up some level of speed (this is the first class that should almost universally be "3/5"), in order to mount heavy armor and a variety of capital weapon systems. The phrase "a gun for every occasion" should apply here. A BB and a DN should rate roughly the same displacement, but a BB is made to fight largely on its own or as the flagship of a lighter squadron, and thus its weapons and armor are more balanced between all arcs. BBs universally mount many Drop Collars (4-6), so further extend their capacity to handle any situation on their own.

>cont

>>52096027

>Dreadnought (DN - non-historical designation, but I like it)
The Dreadnought is not noticeably heavier than a BB, but whereas a BB is a slower ship with a very wide variety of armament and capabilities, a DN is explicitly and totally a space-superiority platform, dedicated solely to fighting in line against other capital ships. Whereas a BB fights ostly alone or as the biggest thing in a task force, DNs fight in groups of other DNs. As such, its armor and weapons are canted to the *sides* so that it may fight on the broadside. Weapons are very streamlined, with lots of idential naval weapons of the heaviest caliber. Anti-fighter defenses are incidental (a DN armed with large batteries of NLs, for example), and may even be entirely omitted. DNs usually mount the same number of Drop Collars as a BB, but will usually use them for assault ships to screen the battle line, or for the spare parts and tertiary fuel colliers that its internal stores don't cover.

>Light Carrier (CVL)
A light carrier is designed as an inexpensive craft to carry ASFs from place to place, often operating as an escort unit for merchants or a supplementary unit for planetary invasions (ASFs can escort a craft down into the atmosphere, while a pure "gun" escort has to stop at the atmosphere/space interface). It will rely much more on internal stowage for cargo and ASF supplies instead of DropShips to keep the cost of the unit down. CVLs are largely differentiated from CVs by mass, number of ASFs carried, and an ability to resupply the fighters - carrying more than 1 Wing of fighters almost universally classifies a craft as a CV, instead of a CVL. Note that some WarShips of other classifications can carry more than one wing of fighters - the difference is that a CV or CVL is PURPOSE-BUILT to carry the ASFs and/or small craft, and doesn't mount significant capital weaponry.

>cont

>>52096049

>Carrier (CV)
Just like a CVL, but it should generally carry at least 3 Wings of fighters (generally broken down into 1 wing each of Interceptors, Dogfighters, and Attack Craft). These are more significant assets than CVLs and so will include a few Drop Collars. CVs will prioritize speed, armor, and cargo space (ASFs) over capital ships; the faster and further a CV can travel, the more fuel and loiter time its fighters will have on-target. Many CVs mount at least a token quad-mount NL battery in some arcs to provide some last-ditch anti-fighter defense. Again, these are purpose-built to carry ASFs and small craft, not just a normal WarShip with a wing of ASFs on-board.

>Assault Carrier (CVA)
About the same size as a CV, but it gives up speed and occasinally some fuel/cargo for a LOT more armor/SI and a credible antiship armament that can also be used for ground bombardment. The purpose of a CVA is to shove itself into a defensive position, launch a ton of fighters, and support them (and/or ground landings) with capital weapon fire. The number of capital weapon batteries may be low, but they should be hard-hitting. If any ship is the equivalent to the Galactica, it's this one. Several DropCollars to actually land the ground forces are, of course, mandatory.

>Fuck You (FU)
1 class per faction, high-mass, min-maxed ships that make your opponent look at your TO&E and say "fuck you, man." These craft are fleets in being themselves, and should generally take a line squadron (4-6 BBs or DNs) to kill. Any of the combat Leviathan classes (not the Lev I, obviously) fall into this category in standard AeroTech. Everybody gets a few of these Death Star units, and they generally sit around because nobody wants to lose one, but they're there for the munchkins and to have really shitkicking apocalyptic scenarios with.

>fin

>>52095543
>drawfag with no name
And that's what they should be tagged as.

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>>52096261
>drawfag with no name

>approves

>>52096313
Yo NEA
What would be a good basic WarShip fight to introduce a new player to that aspect of aerospace?

>>52096402
Pinto

>>52095674
Can I get a rundown of all the mechs here? My mech-fu is weak.
Top row, left to right, is Dervish, Blood Kite, ??, Crusader?, Hatamoto-Chi, Thug?
Second row is Avatar, ??, Madcat II, ??, Trebuchet? (the one slightly between both rows), ??, Phoenix Hawk or Valkyrie?
3rd row is Templar?, Akuma, Thanatos, ??, Linebacker?, Stiletto? (feels way to big), Hauptmann
Bottom row is Solitaire, Night Gyr?, Turkina? (reminds me of the Mektek version), some sort of LAM?

>>52096402

Aegis v Aegis, at 2/3 thrust nobody's going to be ramping up to ludicrous speed, they have a mix of weapons, they're reasonably tough, and if you want to try bracketing and bearings-only launches they've got the guns for those too.

>>52094765
>By WWII destroyers began filling in a niche as (what I’ll very simply call) anti-everything vessels, extremely powerful high-value targets due to the number of guns they would field.

>DDs
>high-value targets

>6 5-inchers is a lot
This guy's never heard of the Atlantas, has he.

>>52096402

I had a big post explaining why, but my phone rang and the window closed. Fuck Mobile. Use a Lola III.

>>52095992
>>52096008
>>52096027
>>52096049
>>52096098
Thanks m8. Did you have any other things, like PDFs or something, relating to space warfare? I feel like you did.

>>52097879
As in like a straight dual between two of the things?

>>52094574
AAAAAAAAAAH!!!

Every FUCKING day with these STUPID fucking MEMES! I've had it up to HERE with stupid fucking memes! You guys make me want to KILL MYSELF! Is that what you fucking want? For me to fucking KILL MYSELF and write on my suicide note "Cause of suicide: Couldn't handle all of the stupid fucking memes, killed myself"? Because that's what it might as well fucking say!

You guys are literally, L I T E R A L L Y incapable of having even the SIMPLEST of fucking discussion without "MEME THIS, MEME THAT, HAHA BUTTE HOLD, HERE'S A PIC OF PURPLE BIRD WAIFU, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA EBIN AMIRITE?" Fucking STOP IT you pathetic fucking FAGGOTS, you are such fucking cancer that I cannot even fathom how you fucking scumbags live your dumb gay lives. Don't you have a job to get to, schoolwork to finish or a family to attend to? Do you literally do ANYTHING productive with your lives other than post stupid fucking memes on the board game section of a god damn anime imageboard? You fucking people make me sick and you're damn lucky I don't have any of your fucking addresses you fucking pieces of shits. I'd spit in your faces.

>52098077
This is some spicy new copypasta right here

>>52098109
>new
The template has been around since January of last year.

>>52098077

Really? Well it's not really my thing but sure.

>>52098077
yeah the memes are bad but
at least its not clan erppcs

>>52098077
Epic xD
I bet you are a grog too

>>52098132
Huh. I haven't seen it before

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>>52098077
somebody get this hothead outta here

>>52096313
Calling it now.
We'll start acronyming it to "DWNN", eventually becoming "Dawn"

>>52098077
That's a big post.

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>>52098362
for you

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>>52098077
Your other option is the official forums
The choice is yours.
;-)

>>52098426
Just shut the fuck up anon. You aren't funny. You aren't clever. You aren't original. You're trying to force a meme, and succeeding only in being a worthless cunt. If you had the courage of your convictions, you'd put on and keep on a trip rather than hiding behind anon like a worthless cunt.

Find new material, because the only reason anybody cares about what you post is that you're wasting perfectly good thread space being a worthless cunt.

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>>52098449

>>52098077
While I agree completely with you, that's just what this place is.It's like walking into a gas station restroom and complaining "this place smells like shit!" Yeah, so?

>>52098398
fuck off medron

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>>52098506
who?

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>>52098077

>>52098506
>fuck off medron
That's Medron PRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYDDDEEEEEE! To you mothafuka

>>52098341
Likewise, but these days I come to 4chan for /btg/ and maybe a few general /tg/ threads, not much else. I've not even been watching the cup since /tg/ got babbied.

I don't keep up with the dankest of me-me's.

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>>52098077
Did someone say....
Memes?

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>>52096402

>>52098449
Perhaps he's wondering why you'd bitch about wasted thread space, while wasting thread space yourself. Or do you mean to just crash this thread, with no survivors?

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>>52098534
come back to #swq crix-sama we miss you and your autism

>>52098571
Don't bring him back here.

>>52098514
MIKE JONES

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>>52098615
It's too late for that.

>>52098353
>not just calling him Blondie

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Thank you to the Anon who gave me the idea for the camo scheme

I'm so sorry

FUNKYTOWN

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>>52098057
>>52096402

Yes. A straight duel between Lola IIIs is my preferred method of introducing WarShip combat.

Lola's have the advantage of just enough thrust to screw yourself up if you don't think about it, thus teaching thrust management. They have enough thrust to allow you to see when/why Evasive Movement can help (an Aegis can't use it without Overthrusting, which only shows the negative side of EM). Lola's have weapons representing all of the core usage concepts: NLs for AAA and standard fire, NACs for direct fire, capital missiles for direct-fire and bearings-only launches (plus learning about capital missile critical hit chances), Barracudas for AAA to contrast with the NLs, and a variety of bay sizes to show bracketing in 3- and 4-gun mount sizes.

Plus Lola's have just enough armor and SI combined with a light enough weapons loadout that they won't immediately evaporate one another on a full broadside. An Aegis that lands most of its FR/RBS/AR weapon bays can outright kill another Aegis in a single salvo. The Aegis can deal a total 690 points of damage from those arcs at Medium range vs a maximum of 202 side armor (forward and aft quarter armor combined)+ 150 damage to kill the SI. That's bad for teaching. Lola III's CAN fuck up another Lola III pretty badly, dealing a max of 114 damage with those arcs, against a combined 96 armor and 100 damage to kill the SI, but a single-turn kill is so unlikely as to not be worth bothering about.

The only thing the Lola's are bad about is teaching screening using large vessel ECM, since they don't have DropShips. But that's an issue endemic to basically ALL of the SLN destroyers.

>Also, the Pinto sounds great, but I've run into people being confused due to the mix of standard and capital-scale weapons. Plus its the speed can *really* get you in trouble. With that said, I use Pintos to teach "wolfpack" tactics, because they're actually pretty good at that. 4 Pintos vs 1 Congress is a good tutorial.

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>>52095674
That Kite is almost playable, and I want a mini of your 'snatch..

>>52096402
Vincent Mk 39 VS Two Bonaventures

>>52098449
>the courage of your convictions

Oh hey, this guy again.

>>52099090

I think he's trying to force a meme, and succeeding only in being a worthless cunt.

>>52098665
What the hell. Where is this from?

>>52099272
It was a one-off arcade scene from a show called... Date-a-Live, I think?
Somehow, they have Mechwarrior 3 in their arcade.
I think the writers simply put some parodies of their favourite obscure (according to japan) games into the show.

>>52098968
Out of curiosity what's your favorite original warship design and what's your favorite redesign? Art wise.
Semaphore paddles are allowed.

Circa the Clan Invasion era which of the first four invading Clans was Clan Star Adder closest to diplomatically?

And also in that era what might have been "their" mechs of choice?

Might be doing a game about a small Adder force attached to one Clan during the invasion that perishes during Tukayyid, a la the Goliath Scorpions.

>>52100074
A ridealong with the Falcons could work, IIRC they didn't have major beef at the time

Speaking of clans, do we have any info or even good estimates as to what the star adder and blood spirit toumans looked like in 3050, before the Burrock mess?
I'm playing around with the idea of an alternate Clan Invasion where their performance is somewhat more table-accurate, but there's also *more* invading clans

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>>52098077
ok

>>52098888
Tuco pls go.

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Something's been running through my head for a while.

Even during the Fasa days, every campaign system, scenario pack, and just about everything seems to treat Battletech as being played as a GM-supported campaign, but the core rulebook most often treats it as a head-to-head wargame. As a result, I've always felt a fair bit of disconnect with the products outside of fluffbooks that support the game.

Has any sort of research been done to figure out how most people play Battletech? I've heard of everything from people who play against each other at the LGS to more tight knit gaming groups with GM-run campaigns, but the supporting books seem to universally treat the game like the latter, not the former.

Is this because the players who play Battletech as Player-Group-Versus-GM outnumber the versus gamers, because TPTB generally stick to that style of play, because it's easiest to make product for, or because GM-groups invest more money into the product?

>>52100190
You better let the Hellions get in on that action.

Did the FedCom sell the Garm to the Concordat?

>>52100306
Of course. It's just that estimating their 3050 TRO is extremely simple, so I don't need any info for that
I was thinking a lineup, from left to right of
>wolves
>falcons
>horses
>bears
>adders
>jags
>cats
>helleons
>spirits

>>52098949
What other mechs have headphones/musical looking parts on their chassis?

>inb4 Yeoman

>>52100553
move the hellions over to the left so they can show the Lyrans the true meaning of blitzkrieg. And drop the Spirits.

>>52100657
The spirits were going to get like a tiny sliver route on the very far periphery edge of the DC, like a "we're technically including you but still hate you" type deal

I put the helleons there to show the dracs what a REAL light mech army looks like, instead, but putting them on the other side might also be fun

>>52100553
I'm going to assume the Snow Ravens are doing the Bear's naval stuff for them?

>>52100813
Sorta, yeah. They're also helping the spirits a small amount in exchange for one world in their corridor

I am literally throwing random ideas at a wall right now, though. If anyone else has sone, feel free to throw them around and I'll probably borrow them

So where does an Aussie even go to get /bt/ minis? I'm thinking of starting up a Snow Raven list, but I've no idea where to get decent clan mechs.

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>>52100302

Herb ran polls about that very thing on the OF once upon a time (far enough back that the OF actually had an active userbase big enough to matter). I know one of them was run pre-Total Warfare and I think it may have had an influence on the writing of that book, and IIRC it was run a second time sometime around 2009 or 2010 as well.

Essentially, something like 75% of BattleTech games played in person are one-off games, 1 player vs 1 player, played on 2 mapsheets or less, with 2 lances (or equivalent base maneuver unit) or less per side. Vehicle, infantry, aero, and TacOps-level rules are pretty much just not ever used. An independent GM "running" the game was pretty explicitly present in less than 10% of all games, scenario or not.

The reason so many products are aimed at the vast minority of "scenario" or "campaign" gamers is because there isn't really a product you can make for two people who just want to bang giant robots together for an hour or two. The real issue - and the reason we're seeing so many fewer "scenario" products in general - is that when the total BattleTech player population was ~50,000 people, it was feasible to create a product only 10,000 of them would buy. You could still make some money selling it. Now that the player population is, by all accounts, under 10,000 people (and probably closer to 5-6,000), you're looking at selling that product to ~2,000 people at the absolute high end, which isn't nearly such a good financial idea.

>pic unrelated, but there's already enough random images in this thread it'll blend in

>>52101006
Where are you?

>>52101030
Tasmania, mate. I'm absolutely fucked.

>>52100450
It IS from right smack in the only era where such a thing might have happened, but it's not mentioned in any fluff and frankly, I can't really see any reason for the taurians to even *want* to buy the damn thing, because it's pretty terrible
Why do you ask?

>>52101044
Maybe some kind 'Murrican soul would buy you some minis and ship them to you. I have to imagine private post is cheaper than what a business charges to ship to the land that time forgot.

>>52101092
I just ran the numbers. To get a single Adder Prime from Iron Wind Metals shipped to me would be $42 AUD.

Kerensky preserve me.

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>>52101205
Jesus, and I thought us in northern canada were hard up

>>52101205
Fuck, it would actually be cheaper to just pay some vacationer to bring like ten minis down with him and mail them domestic to you

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>>52100450
>>52101049

Battle Pope did the Garm GRM-01A2. The factory for it is on New Syrtis (the Capellan March is where they get the Plasma Rifles from), so it's not like it's a long export trip.

On the amusing side, I personally think that the FedSuns DOES export Garms to the Taurians...which is why the Taurians made sure to drop by New Syrtis and nuke the shit out of the city and blow up the Garm half of the Johnston Industries factory with bombing runs. Note that the other two important military facilites on New Syrtis weren't touched: the Combat Training Center and the Warrior's Hall got nary a scratch.

So yeah, obviously the Taurians have the Garm. And they nuked New Syrtis over it, because the Garm is Just That Bad Of A Mech.

>Also, the Taurians have the Garm because of pic related. But that's boring.

>>52101044
There's a store in Melbourne that has some metals. They may have a couple of box sets, although I haven't been in there in a while. Hit me up if you ever want a game in Melbourne.

>>52101254
This is what I do whenever my parents come to visit.

>>52101261
I could see them buying a couple in 58 for testing and going
>the fuck is this?
>the fuck is wrong with you people?
>yep, them spheroids is crazy as hell
And later, after jeffery calderon dies and takes 99% of the National Strategic IQ And Logic Reserve with him and they invade the suns them capturing a few more

>>52101261
>And they nuked New Syrtis over it, because the Garm is Just That Bad Of A Mech.
I would too, to be honest
Though I do think the FS RATs really do need some absolute trashmechs on them to balance out the 3055/58 super magic rides, and the garm fits the bill perfectly
After all, these ARE the people who thought the Shad-D was a good idea

>>52101205
International shipping is a bitch. But if you can find someone here who's trustworthy they can probably mail it via a flat-rate USPS box, especially with a bunch of them. Since it's lightweight it shouldn't cost much more than $25 or so.

>>52101397
>Though I do think the FS RATs really do need some absolute trashmechs on them to balance out the 3055/58 super magic rides
>trashmechs

Wait till you see what I helped Muninn inflict on the Canopians in the TRO.

It's overdue.

>>52101397
I like to think the actual primary weapon of the Shadowhawk is hand-to-hand combat; when you look at it that way all the guns are a bonus.

>>52101576
>TRO
The more I hear about this thing and what's going into it the less I believe it to be a /btg/-sourced project and more a "pay us to put our sweet Mechs into this book for us" ego trip for several namefags.

I hope my concern proves unfounded.

>>52101589
Yeah but the Shad-D having shit armor makes it worse at utilizing its primary attack mode. What were they thinking?

Also speaking of Trio variants, why was there never a Griffin that swaps the LRM10 for an LRM5 and SRM4, then uses the extra tonnage for say a Flamer or SHS? It seems to be that it being a faster/fatter Panther would work great.

>>52101576
>Wait till you see what I helped Muninn inflict on the Canopians in the TRO.
>It's overdue.
I'm expecting twin capped HPPCS and ten SHS, no other equipment
>>52101589
When you think of the shad as being meant to be able to provide some sort of support to the rest of it's lance, no matter the range, it makes a bit more sense. Or if you run it as designed special munitions guy, where it actually almost shines

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>>52094507
For a second I thought that was Roberto's head.

>>52101006
>>52101222

>tfw trying to get into battletech in east yurop

Oddly enough, almost all storybooks are widely available translated, in good quality and dirt cheap.

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>>52101610

Nah, he came and found me and asked for my help.

The important point, however, being that the MoC ends up with a shitmech, which is seriously, *seriously*, overdue. The last thing they had what was outright *bad* was the Shadow Hawk, and that's not even that bad when something like 183% of your military is made of Wasps and Stingers.

If a Mech designed to sound like a good idea and isn't counts as, "a sweet Mech in the book", then I'm sorry, and I'd like to recommend a good English teacher.

>>52101647
>twin capped HPPCS and ten SHS, no other equipment

Gotta be subtler than that. It has to be something that can actually pass the MoC procurement system as they're described in the fluff, but still be a complete and total clusterfuck. I think we went through close to 20 designs and revisions. Definitely more than 15.

>OK, that's enough about that. I didn't mean to turn the topic towards me and it was a mistake that I did. Sorry.

>>52101681
You can thank Germany for that (the sourcebooks at least, maybe also the novels), but be careful; they were pretty liberal with adding stuff that's only canon in their sourcebook material. Still, it makes things easier on Europeans, which is ultimately a win.

>>52101681
Hey, warhansa is close, and that's pretty damn good
na zdowrie, fellow slav

>>52101704
>shitmech
Meme Mechs are still "our shit" and your comments have done little to assuage my suspicions. Not too sure why you decided to be flippant with the "English teacher" comment but whatever, be defensive I guess. I still like you as a poster but this was a pretty weak post, man. Skepticism to keep you folks honest is never misplaced, and if you think so, you only incriminate yourselves.

I suppose I was supposed to find the irony of you designing a bad Mech for the MoC funny, but that's also a miss. Sorry.

>>52101647
>. Or if you run it as designed special munitions guy, where it actually almost shines
I've never thought of it, but it would be good at that, wouldn't it? Give it flak and thunders and infernos, and it can do all sorts of support shit without actually disadvantaging an actually useful mech

>>52101766
Honestly, between the Wolvie and the Shad, in Introtech anyway, the Shad is the better machine. I dunno why people act like it's worse than the Wolvie, assuming base models anyway. It does everything the Wolverine does, and more. I think if they had made the original, base Wolvie a brawler, it would have been different.

>mfw ReCaptcha is being a fucking shit

>>52101010
I can get that.

I'm personally more surprised that there aren't more products made to be "linked scenarios" or more thought into products to help to spice up those general one-shots, each with less emphasis on tracking major data points, and instead played like pick-up games that may lead into a different game in the next pickup game, or even simply a "big book of cool mission ideas". I'm sure that the Cincinnati and Toronto guys could throw a lot into that.

I'm also pretty surprised that they aren't making any introtech-expansion products. I'm talking about stuff like the original "First Strike" book where everything could be done with nothing but the contents of the intro box and/or citytech 2nd edition. Sword and Dragon came close in concept but fell flat on it's face with requiring buying so many mechs from IWM and a GM. Even more than construction rules, it needs a "Cool shit you can do with this / how to balance pickup games" section.

Even a product made with scenarios that demo team members have used to recruit new players.

More mapsheets. Go back to the compilations with 24 paper maps. It would be fantastic.

...I mean, Campaign Operations and Total Chaos seem like cool books, but god knows whenever I give people the choice of a wargame campaign or RPG, they want to go RPG, even if they just want to hurry up and kill things.

>>52101740

>slav

get your dog language out of my face

>>52101762

Come on, you accused the man of paying to put his personal sweet mech into the TRO. He's got a right to be defensive when your first sentence is an attack against his integrity. You aren't being skeptical, you outright made an attack.

If you learn to read most of the posts around here as assuming they're sarcastic to begin with, you'll find that people are a lot less asshatty than you thing. Yes, the whole thing about "NEA designing a shitmech for one of this factions" is a joke. Basically all of the writers have designed immensely OP units for their favorite factions, like Jellico and the Levs. For fucks sake Muninn made the same joke about making what seem like unstoppable FWL powerhouses that actually turn out shit and you didn't jump down people's throat then.

Loosen up and relax. And maybe think about finding an english teacher.

>>52101814
>more paper map packs
Fuck yes. Fucking this. I have a goodly number of the old paper maps, but they get pretty stale after a while.

>>52101918
>Come on, you accused the man of paying to put his personal sweet mech into the TRO.
No I didn't, I said I was concerned that WE paid to publish a TRO that, by all appearances, will have only stuff that four people designed, as opposed to the crowdsourced material originally proposed. But you can believe whatever you want, I don't feel like filling a thread with arguments. They'll do whatever they do anyway, so I suppose skepticism is totally wasted either way.

>>52101869
...I wish I could speak dog.

>>52102000

Since they're the only people who post with names besides 'anon', how the fuck would you know the difference?

When 10 different posts pop up from 'anon' all telling about their designs, do you count that as 10 different people, or do you count that as all 1 person to keep your count low and your conspiracy theory intact?

>>52102000
Rather a few of the machines were designed on the basis of
>guys working on it get an idea and/or stats from an anon
>flesh out that idea into a full TRO entry
I would consider those to be ideas from the crowd here, even if a namefag did some of the work

>>52101869
Dirty finn get gone. You're just snow hungarians mixed with discount eskimos

Anyone know where to find record sheets or templates for hand-held weapons?

>>52102146
I dunno if this is even a thing, but there are rules for making them. I can get you a reference page if that'd help.

Can /tg/ here explain to me how differently do Battlemechs move and behave on tabletop and in the BT novels as opposed to how they are in Mechwarrior?

I heard they can do much more than be "concrete statues that thunder around trading hits" (which is very MW). I'm not willing right now to go through a dozen doorstoppers just to get a reasonable gist on how battlemechs are to be portrayed.

>>52100190

Star Adders were about the same size before and after the Absorbtion War.

Blood Spirits had 10 Galaxies, and it appears designating them Provisional Galaxies for being under-strength happened after the AW. That may indicate they had a full complement of 6 Cluster per Galaxy forces for 61 total. Or they might have had 4 full-strength and 6 Provisional, or whatever. I would peg them at an absolute minimum of 40 Clusters though.

>>52100813
>>52100838

Y tho. The Bears have plenty of ships.

>>52102532
>"concrete statues that thunder around trading hits" (which is very MW)

I feel that characterization is due more to anemic AI rather than anything inherent to Mechwarrior, though. If you played any of the games multiplayer you'll note things tend to converge on tank-game tactics - popping in and out of cover to take potshots.

In terms of tabletop vs. video games, though, I'd say the big thing is that the average pilot in the tabletop game is a really shoddy shot at anything more than point blank range. Moving on your turn applies a penalty to your shots, and a moving opponent also applies penalties, as well as taking shots at range. Since everything is rolled on a 2d6, this means even modest penalties can drastically cut your chance to hit.

The other main difference is that weapons do not converge on a crosshair as in the video-games - a hit location is rolled separately for each attack.

Putting this all together, this fundamentally means mounting more weapons gives you more dice rolls, increasing the chances of a hit, but this is balanced out by the tendency for that damage to not concentrate - 4 medium lasers will deal 20 points of damage, but will spread that over 4 locations.

Conversely, an AC/20 rolls only a single attack and a single location, which means it will do that 20 to a concentrated body part - but this is balanced by the risk of missing and losing all that damage.

>>52102532

They're a lot more agile than the computer games present them as being. Not to the point of being like a human gymnast, but far closer to that than being grinding slow stompy robots.

Does anyone have a copy of the MekHQ 0.42.1 binary they could upload somewhere? All the official download links for that version are actually pointing at an incorrectly labeled 0.43.0

>>52102625
>>52102632

How are battlemechs like in the novels then? I've seen some paintings of them jumping and stomping and punching? But how stiff and limited are they in the movements they can achieve?

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>>52102532
>>52102632
The fiction and fluff present them as far more anthropomorphic, being able to move sort of like giant suits of powered armour. Maybe not quite on the level of something like Evangelion, but if you've seen Pacific Rim I'd imagine a similar level of articulation.

They're also able to engage in hand-to-hand combat, and physical attacks are a very big part of the tabletop game (literally swatting or stomping a light 'mech is often an excellent tactic for a large assault mech).

>>52102720
It's almost entirely based on pilot skill. Tech mode/maintenance mode is full DI control without proper pilot nuerohelmet input. They can just kind of walk around like Mechwarrior. On the other end of the spectrum, an ace pilot is so jacked into his machine, that people comment the machine even stands and swaggers like the pilot does. Basically, the more a pilot takes over from the crude AI, the more stuff the machine can do.

To give you an idea of movements, there are some famous worlds that have mech-sized sporting events like football, baseball, and even kung fu and mech gymnastics events.

>>52102766
Well it's sad then that MW has become the default portrayal.

>>52102789
I feel there definitely has been some shift away from humanoid mecha towards a more "walking tank" look with time (and perhaps as a deliberate shift away from Japanese influences?).

A lot of Clan 'mechs for example are decidedly less anthropomorphic - look at the Timber Wolf/Mad Cat or the Mad Dog/Vulture (part of why they often made for good inclusion in the video games).

>>52102828
Do you think the walking tank portrayal is more valid or more easily appreciated around here?

>>52102828
That's because the clan stuff is largely not geared with the utility of IS designs in mind. You can set your Archers and Thunderbolts to moving ammo or salvage in between battles, but the Vulture and Thor are fucked in that regard. Which knowing Clan Warrior culture makes sense. They see that sort of work as beneath them, and also despise the secondary use of physical combat.

>>52102839
Not really. And official designs are still a decent percentage humanoid.

>>52101814
>Sword and Dragon came close in concept but fell flat on it's face with requiring buying so many mechs from IWM and a GM

Actually I liked Sword and Dragon. I was a new player then so I had not read any similar campaign/scenario books.

I liked the fact the it was a 1vs1 where each participant was in turn both a player and a GM.

I mostly play 1vs1 battles but I would love products where would allow a campaign that could be played this was. 1vs1 (each one being both a player and a GM in turn)

>>52102532
I suppose the best description of how battlemechs move would be a very strong and very drunk man in a fistfight.
The fact that they've got guns taped to them is rather incidental to how they move

>>52102839
I can say that I actually like the "Walking Tank" thing but it just doesn't jive with 'Mechs like the Locust and whatnot. You can't really "lumber" at 117kph.

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>>52102839
I think generally it's always been understood that the Mechwarrior portrayal is the result of computer or design limitations rather than meant to be perfectly faithful. Video games used to be understood as abstractions - units in an RTS for example might not be absolutely realistically to scale, and there's no way that a platoon of infantry could take down a starship with their rifles (Starcraft, for example), but such things are possible in a game.

Nowadays it's easy to forget that with how great graphics look that the game is still an abstract system underneath. In particular for the Mechwarrior games they've always made decisions to create a game that could be played on a PC without a whole lot of weird control setups or hardware. Trying to focus on more humanlike movement would require a very different sort of game and UI design. Such games generally need the assistance of a third person camera to communicate the player's relative position to the environment, since you lack that inherent spatial awareness in a simulated first person view.

Something like Armored Core, for example, represents a different sort of road; although it has far faster and jumpier mecha, the third person camera used in it gives a better sense of relative position and emphasizes the more anthropomorphic movement of the machines.

>>52102146
RS Prototypes has some following the Quickdraw and Axman variants made to use them.

But they're simple as shit, HHs are just the weapons and the armor/ammo/heatsinks if they have them, as well as the BV. Not something you really need a template for.

>>52101610
>>52101762
>>52102000
There are like a hundred ways to address this, but I suspect from the phrasing we've had this discussion before so I doubt you'd be convinced this time. If you're actually asking about this for the first time I'd be happy to talk about the project.

>>52096778
From left to right, each row:

>Dervish, Blood Kite, Lao Hu (TRO version), Crusader, Hatamoto-Chi, Emperor.
>Avatar, Lobo, Mad Cat Mk2, Bandersnatch, Lineholder, Crimson Langus, Vapor Eagle/ Goshawk
>Templar, Akuma, Thanatos, Verfolger, Helfire, Sagittaire, Hauptmann
>Solitaire, Nova Cat, Turkina, Black Python, Cobra

>>52094625
This looks fucking great. I love the Merlin even though it's just a fat Vindicator, but I'm pretty happy with what you've done. I like the Loose version too, much maligned as he is around here, and I can say that I'd be very happy with either version in art or mini form as an official thing,

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>>52102532

This is closer to how I imagine them then most takes. The weight and sense of power is there, but they are articulated.

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>>52103124
>Did you just punch me in the ass you little punk?

>>52103007
You'll do whatever you do, I suppose.

>>52103203
that is kinda why he's the guy in charge of /btg/RO - he does like 90% of the work.

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>>52094850
How about now?

>>52103136
>Japanese mech pilots

>>52103203

Jesus fuck you're being an asshole.

>>52101762
NEA gets to be a little bitch about his faction if you bring it up.

So, I'm trying to figure out what all the official big 2x3 foot poster-sized maps of the Inner Sphere are. Could somebody help me out? I think I'm missing one or two.

1987 3025 map (I think this was sold by itself, not sure if it came with anything, maybe in the 2nd or 3rd edition box?)
1991 3052 map (came in the original Solaris Box set)
2006 3067 map (came in the original Catalyst Box set, the 25th anniversary had the same year map but it was smaller instead of full size and didn't have the provincial and faction submaps)

Now I have the PDF of the 3130 version but I don't think it was ever printed in an official product. Anything else?

>>52105233
3135 got printed as part of the DA stuff. My LGS had the map for a while.

>>52105244
Was it sold separately or did it come in a box set or something? I got the sourcebooks from that time except TRO3150 but there's no foldout map in them, just sectional stuff.

>>52105275
I'm talking the original DA Stuff from WizKids, not the CGL material.

>>52105285
Promo material then? Because I have almost a full collection of the original DA stuff and I can't say I've run across that map in personal lots. Not that some of the rarer stuff pops up all that often in MWDA or Battletech. It took me forever to complete the officer's club sets with pins for example.

>>52105311
Probably promo material, yeah.

Did the Ghost Bears have a very big warship fleet before they built the Leviathans?

>>52105323
Moderately, but not to the level of the Ravens or Cats.

They don't have a big one after either

WoB STRONK

>>52105351
They certainly are a fun faction.

>>52103203
Muninn, I for one now encourage you to include stupidly broken WoB and Purple Burd mechs just to spite this austismo

>>52105459
Most of that stuff I've turned into ISP material, including the RNS Jormungandr. It's a custom hull left over behind by the Word.

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>>52105459
Oh boy, now we have /btg/ permission to include spoopy Blakist stuff

*happy nuclear noises intensify *

>>52101261

That one was a last minute design - I honestly don't remember what the design process was on that one vs the Hellspawn, Stooping Hawk or Crimson Langur I'm responsible for.

>>52105459
Honestly you seem just as much an autismo as he does.

>>52105519
How much WoB stuff is there already? Out of curiosity. I enjoy playing them.

>>52104799
Why is it so hard to grasp that if your opinion is stupid, even if it genuinely is your opinion, people have the right to call it stupid? People then are will within logical rights to say explain your stupid opinion to prove you aren't a shitposter.

It's entirely in your power to walk away and ignore that but you don't, you keep using the word "opinion" as a shield in which case your opinion is stupid and you are not posting anything conducive to facilitating discussion, aka you are shitposting.

I'm still holding out you are doing some juvenile baiting because you are going to have a rude awakening eventually if you think opinions work in the way you sewer positing.

>>52105609
>Stooping Hawk
Give it to the IS Clans, dammit. It's one of my favorite looking and playing Omnis.

>>52105616
>How much WoB stuff is there already? Out of curiosity. I enjoy playing them.
Hilariously, I think I've ended up putting 1 design more than Night in from the WoB.

Shades of the RX-79[G] program for the Republic and Word units...

>>52101261
>Just That Bad Of A Mech

You know, I've always done alright with the Garm. It's a pretty good Feddie mook, fits well in the crowd along stuff like a Drac Panther or a Capellan Vindicator.

>>52105616
Depends, do you count the Republic as WoB?

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>>52102532
They're standard robots, not walking tanks.
Not really different from their anime origins.

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>>52102734
>literally swatting or stomping a light 'mech is often an excellent tactic for a large assault mech

Just reach out and wrench its head off.

In ComStar and Word of Blake, is there ever an instance where a member will have more than one Greek letter designation besides ROM?

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>>52105820
With TSM it's a bit more like pic related

>>52105705
I may have asked this months ago, but is this pic a depiction of the opening to Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries?

>>52105665

Bears have it on one of their RATs, but the version I'm responsible for...well, its stupid fun if you're driving it but incredibly not fun if you're facing it.

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>>52105937
Catapult, fleeing Commando, ded Zeus...
Is there a reason not to think so?

>>52105981
Considering I use one with an LPL and 4 MPL, I think my players can deal.

>>52105820
>literal lyran scout vs. marik scout

Anybody else find it hilarious how so much of the border forces around the Combine use essentially the same red scheme as the Sword of Light and other famous Drac forces?

Skye Rangers and Sky Guard on the Lyran border and Robinson-named everything on the Fedsun border.

>>52105990
>Mobility, Alex' nemesis

Looks flexible enough to me.

I mean, you're not going to be doing splits, cartwheels or backflips in a battlemech.

>>52106129
>I mean, you're not going to be doing splits, cartwheels or backflips in a battlemech.

I can't tell if this is serious or making fun of the times battlemechs did that in novels.

>>52106142
There are olympiads where skilled 'mech pilots do some limited acrobatics in controlled situations as a test of skill.

>>52106142
The magic of the darkest of ages also makes mechs unnaturally mobile, in addition to it's more mundane incest and pointless warcrime-related effects

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>>52106129
>Looks flexible enough to me.

Absolutely not.
Just loo at how the artist had to erase a part of the arm ad shoulder to allow it to raise the SRM arm.
The stance it's in would suggest it's about to hit the dirt in an animation.

Alex is a good artists but his designs are absolute dog-crap when it comes to articulation and therefore animation.

>doing acrobatics
For one, mechs in Battletech do often pull off stuff like that.
For another, I'm talking about much simpler motions like what a mobile suit or a Valkyrie would be doing and it's absolutely impossible to achieve these sort of basic things on most if not all of his models.

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>>52106228
You're nitpicking, they're doing it all the time in the field.
Just because you don't like a part of the lore does not make it non-canon.

It also makes much more sense than walking tanks. The argument of "why not just slaw treads on it" is bullshit exactly because any self-respecting franchise has the mechs capable of much better mobility and dexterity than an MBT.

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>>52106293
The one on the right looks unfinished. Is it supposed to look battle damaged and missing armor or something? Did the techs not like the pilot because he didn't buy them a complimentary box of donuts for them to munch while they work? Just what happened here?

>>52106557
MWO special cosmetic skin.

It's just a battle damaged/ field repaired skin variation, meants to look like you're part of the "inner sphere resistance" and your mechs haven't had the luxury proper replacement parts in a while.

>>52106346
Many of the old designs couldn't manage the sort of acrobatic agility you seem to be referring to without egregiously bending the design on the fly.

Sure, specific 'mechs could be designed with ball joints like the Marauder was said to be, which made it revolutionary.

Humanoid movements, like a guy wearing a big old set of EOD armour, yeah, that sort of movement I get. But having stuff like the vindicator in your pick capable of doing the doing a karate kick? Fuck no.

>>52101589
>>52101589
>the actual primary weapon of the Shadowhawk is hand-to-hand combat
Yeah, but you can also split fire, which is damned nice. Shoot the AC and LRM over the head of whatever you're about to punch and slap it with the SRMs. Infernos are even fun to help pin down whatever you're beating on, and 5/8/3 can reliably get behind pretty much anything without jets in Introtech.

>>52101644
The -D kinda fits the Suns' "ALPHA STRIKE!!!" mentality in the early books. They run hot as fuck and slap far too many weapons on things in a desperate attempt to make up for their lack of heavies. As an ambush Bughunter or light vee-killer, the -D is acceptable. But you kinda need Hidden Deployment to make it even approach a good idea.

>>52101766
>>52101813
>Honestly, between the Wolvie and the Shad, in Introtech anyway, the Shad is the better machine. I dunno why people act like it's worse than the Wolvie, assuming base models anyway.
Because against 'Mechs, the Wolverine is better at getting into (and sticking to) range. The Shad only shines when you're playing a campaign and you need a disposable fifty-five to shove some Infernos or Flak into. Or when you get screwed by the RAT and handed six, so you make a demi-company and call it a lance on your TO&E..

>>52105233
I have a large post-CI map that wasn't from the Solaris boxed set but I can't remember exactly where it came from... My first instinct is to say Battleforce 2 boxed set, since that's one of the only post-clan things I have that might have included a poster map.

>>52106557
>>52106694
actually that's just matt newman's offensively shitty 3d modeling skills at play
not a single one of alex's designs is well-translated in-game, and it's pgi's fault

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>>52107718
A few of the newer models are, but art loses to hitbox balance* in a FPS.
>(*balance)

Canon Trashcans now in release folder in my Dropbox.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ga08er50bpg0r9/Sprite%20Release.7z?dl=0

Speak now if you have a special UrbanMech variant you want sprited.

>>52107953
>Speak now if you have a special UrbanMech variant you want sprited.
Two LLs replacing the AC is one I've seen and would make a good sprite, as is another that tapes twelve MLs together swayback-style in place of the AC

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>>52099480

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>>52107953
>>52108084
I'm gonna need variant model names, and record sheets are preferred.

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>Wolf's Dragoons are clashing with WoB
>form the Allied Mercenary Coalition
>a unit appears on Outreach
>comprised of former Com Guard troops that hate Victor Steiner-Davion's appointment as Precentor Martial
>symbol is basically the same as Word of Blake's

When the Dragoons hired the Legion, you think they were telling themselves "Come on, Word of Blake wouldn't be THIS obvious with a fifth column scheme"?

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>>52110065

Oops.

>>52102899
>>52102880
>>52102866
>>52103124
>>52105705

I've seen phrases like, "melts foot-thick steel in x seconds". I've seen high-end and low-end durability calculations by the fandom. What's the most reasonable take on durability?

Does MW exaggerate durability with all the hit trading and stuff?

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It's a shame that such a cool looking robutt should be so shit.

Battletech turns are 60 seconds so yeah, fiction and video games tend to be a wee bit faster paced.

>>52110745
No, BattleTech turns are 10 seconds.

>>52110745
Uh, 60? I've heard anywhere from 6 to 10.

>>52110763

My bad. I must be thinking Battleforce turns.

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Hey, does anyone have HM: areo? The downloads don't have it and I can't find a source; and I'm trying to make Homeworld ships in battletech for fun.

>>52105665
>Shades of the RX-79[G] program for the Republic and Word units...

I want this TRO. Now.
>>52110464

Yes, but also no. The stock game doesn't get into glancing blows or details like how most autocannons fire multiple shells (only the Chemjet ACs fire a single, huge round) but at the same time if you do the math about density you find 'mech armor to be pretty thin (with warship armor literally aluminum-foil thickness, though I can't find my proof). In other words, do the MST3K thing and repeat to yourself "It's just a game, I should really just relax".

>>52110763
>>52110825

You're thinking aerospace too. It's no biggie.

>>52110859
Check the 'more goodies' link. There's a Heavy Metal archive one that has it.

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Any thoughts on the Lyonesse and Aquarius variants that can launch Arrow IV when they've landed?

Anyone have any experience using them?

>>52110687
Eh, it's a jack-of-all-trades that's too slow to work with frontline clan machines, yeah, but a pure star of those will be putting the hurt on anything at any combat range.

>>52110859

HM: Aero is fucked. Not only have the construction rules changed since it was made, it forces a number of things that the rules don't and then calculates shit wrong any way.

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>>52107953
Urbanmech LAM mixed tech.
AKA
Crazy Urbie
I know no limits.

>>52112586
>http://pastebin.com/uFwvhVhE

I know, and I know I need the patch from PRI to make it usable in today's ruleset. But it's the only way to make warships...

>>52110904
Thanks buddy!

>>52112960

Sorry senpai, but LAMs cant use XL engines or anything that takes up "multiple slots", i.e. structure or armor.

SO, go Composite structure and replace the LB for something lighter. It should be "Urbie enough".

>>52101288
He said "ten minis", Muninn. As I recall, you got enough to fill a large suitcase.

>>52113152
So I can't replace the LB with a PPC?

Is there a mission profile that a merc unit would be asked to perform, that is better filled by conventional forces rather than mechs?

>>52113294
>capture the warship/civilian building/underground caves that do not fit a battlemech

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>>52113152
Silliness Try 2

>>52113294
Hunting down dissidents? You can't exactly go searching door-to-door with mechs.

>>52113387
And now I just feel dumb. Acquire the thins mechs can't reach or are to delicate to handle checked.

>>52113400
Insurgent hunting. That sounds cool as hell.

Thanks anons. I am now going to fluff out a COIN capable merc unit that also specializes in raids/intel gathering.

>>52113253
Well yeah but the principle is the same

>>52113460
Bring VTOLs. The mobility is incredibly useful.

Also, I suggest the uniform includes short shorts.

>>52113601
I will steal Fireforce's method, but I draw the line at uniforms.

>>52113287
>So I can't replace the LB with a PPC?

No, it can't be a "structural" piece that takes up more slots than the standard. Basically, composite structure and small cockpits are the only ways to free tonnage without dropping speed- if it requires multiple slots to be placed in multiple locations it can't be used.
Funny enough, it means compact engines and XL gyro combinations are *technically* legal. I think the LAM construction rules are in Jihad: Final Reckoning but I don't have it on this computer so I can't quote it.

>>52113650
>implying there's anything wrong with rhodiecam and baby-shit FALs

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>>52113394
I'm on it Senpai, we still need a tripod Urb and a whatever the fuck the quirk:T-rex arms one is gonna be statted as

>>52113694

You can use advanced tech items that reduce or don't change internal space requirements, AFAIK. So a Compact Gyro or Engine would be OK, but not an XL Gyro.

>>52113694
Cont. guns are affected, but it means you can't mount artillery which requires crits to be placed throughout the chassis. Heavy ACs will have troubles too.

>>52113709
>trashcans for ants

>>52113707
I just don't like the short shorts. Besides I should try and be "original".

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>>52113709
motherfucker

>>52113707
I know he was planning a conventional force, but rhodiecamo would be a bitch to paint onto mechs, although hella cool.

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>>52113709
Now that I made the silly Urbanmech LAM, we need a pic of it flying in air mech mode saying, "I can see my house from hereeeee!"

>>52112586
Actually, they haven't changed that much. I built a JumpShip using both the classic AT2 rules and the rules from Stratops and it came out identical.

For ASFs they've changed, but for any small and large craft it appears damn-near identical.

>>52113948
It's really just WarShips that have the main issues

>>52113998
What's the big issue with WarShips? Unless core equipment has changed, it'll still be tournament-legal. The values for calculating KF cores, SIs, etc. is all still the same. The only thing that is likely different, that I can tell, is the method of calculating BV and cost -- but that won't affect a unit's legality.

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>>52113394
Now you can Open Google maps on satellite view and fly it around your house.

>>52111740
>ywn be in a star of third-line almost drop out warriors in Wyvern IICs that everyone talks shit about
>ywn wreck another clan's assault stars while using civilian-filled skyscrapers for cover

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>>52114226
I. Love. You. Anon.
Thank you. You made my joy and joke into reality.

>>52114271
Clanners hiding behind civvires? Isn't that the definition of unclanlike?

>>52114341
That's what the assault stars think as they are shot down.

>>52114341
Not if you are Society

I'm not that anon, though

>>52114341
Only because the 'clanlike' response is usually "Fine, Star Commander Ollie, we'll play it your way." and then burn the city down, civilians and all.

>>52114410
>>52114412
>>52114417

So this confirms what I suspected. I don't know shit bout clanners.

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Holy shit, there is way, way too many redundant Firestarter variants, and their critical space setups are stupid as fuck. The deeper knowledge of record sheets I am getting from this sprite project just proves the devs have always been dumb.

>>52114518
Yes, they are.
Have fun with the original Anubis and try to not scream

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>>52114518
pic related

>>52114582
assuming I ever make it past TRO 3025/3050

>>52114417
> we'll
REEEE CONTRACTIONS

>>52106293
That artist has several options on the design to make the arm raise work, and to me it looks more like they painted it wonky rather than deliberately erasing anything.

Logic would state the shoudler armor simply rotates with the arm, never getting in the way. That, or the front and back shoulder plates can be hinged to move with the arm.

What the artist did was wonky, but of their own doing, not Alex's.
Alex's designs are a shit ton more flexible than a lot of battletech lineart. Don't let your hate for the bad in game translations overtake you.

>>52114598
Take a minute and read the fluff. Is one of the worst justifications for incorrect art ever

>>52114417
>we'll

FREEBIRTHS REEEEEEEEEEEEE!

>>52114090

HMA will force you to mount at least 10% mass for cargo and fucks up fire control and crew requirements.

A lot of ships have had their stats changed between their initial publication and TR 3057R, where they ditched the HM output and went through things by hand instead. Have a look at how much cargo the Conqueror had in FM: CC thanks to HM: A and how much it has in TR: 3057 after they corrected it.

They've also changed things so that automatic items like AMS occupy fire control slots but don't require gunners. I would assume the various imaging arrays should function like this but there's been no explicit ruling on it.

>>52114718
Or you could just say, hey, SSW is wrong and the free half ton is for an ER small. Thank you for the error correcting though snide anon.

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>>52114902
No, you don't get it
It does have only one laser, the other arm is a "fake weapon"

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Anubis

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Firestarter canon variants - non-omni added to release folder.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n1yktmajk4i9opr/Sprite%20Release.7z?dl=0

>>52115016
Hahaha holy shit, I thought you were pointing out that giving a the Dark Age FS a hook was incorrect, while simultaneously dissing me. And upon further research, it was, so I changed it. In actuality you were continuing the reply chain on the Anubis, and how Franz Whowinkel needs to stop drawing. My apologies, and thank you again for the unintentional error correction.

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Is this a balanced battle?
Unless otherwise mentioned all vehicles are the standard models.

Force One:
>2 Manticores
>2 Bulldogs
>2 Pattons
>2 Ontoses (3058 refit)
>2 Vedettes (3058 refit)
>2 Galleons (3058 refit)

vs.

Force Two:
>1 Nightshade VTOL
>1 Cyrano VTOL
>1 Saracen
>1 Pegasus
>2 Zephyrs
>1 Condor
>1 Drillson
>2 Maxims
>1 laser jump infantry platoon
>1 rifle jump infantry platoon

>>52115114
Your hovers are way underweight and short range for how much armor and long guns they're facing and the VTOL's are a shitshow. I could do better with a pair of old Warriors facing tanks. Then you gimp it even further by hanging a slow ass infantry albatross around a fast strike force. If I loaded all the SRM's with infernos, I might be able to squeak out a victory but only in open terrain where I could really open up the throttle and force drift the hovers.

>>52115435
What about giving Force Two a terrain advantage?

>>52115522
Something like water would help a lot terrain wise, but if I was the tank player and there was no objective other than "kill the enemy", I'd just turtle up and hope motive crits would sink the bastards as instakills. Then it just comes down to dice rolling and chance instead of tactics. And that would be a fucking boring match.

Tank guy will probably wind up clustering up with everything but his Galleons in any terrain in any case. Best defense against a mob of fast glass like that. Make them get in under the long guns and focus fire while you take advantage of your armor and keep close so the inevitable mobility kills don't string out your forces.

The biggest issue to overcome is 12 real tanks vs 8 hover tanks. Two shorter range VTOL's are not going to make that up, and the infantry are just a battle value sink that won't contribute anything worthwhile. Swap the VTOL's with a pair of Warriors or the infantry platoons with some field gun infantry and you may be talking.

>>52114869
>HMA will force you to mount at least 10% mass for cargo and fucks up fire control and crew requirements.
Wut? If I add a 50 ton cargo bay, it only counts it as 50 tons. If you're referring to the spare parts and food/supplies listings, those are holdovers from the old Battleforce days and mostly included for fluff purposes. You count those as part of the cargo for the ship. You can explicitly call part of the cargo as part of the supplies, but since that stopped being tracked since Battleforce, it doesn't matter too much.

>A lot of ships have had their stats changed between their initial publication and TR 3057R, where they ditched the HM output and went through things by hand instead. Have a look at how much cargo the Conqueror had in FM: CC thanks to HM: A and how much it has in TR: 3057 after they corrected it.
See the above.

>They've also changed things so that automatic items like AMS occupy fire control slots but don't require gunners. I would assume the various imaging arrays should function like this but there's been no explicit ruling on it.
AMS doesn't require fire control or gunners IIRC.

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Assuming these were all done to a similar standard and scaled with each other, would you accept all of these as Locusts? L-R is shortpainter-unseen-mwo-shimmyseen. Trying to decide what I should do for the 17 IS canon variants and 9 clan IICs. I was thinking unseen for introtech, reseen for everything else IS and MWO for IICs. Existing Shortpainter get dropped in the variant folder.
Thoughts?

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>>52102532
Alright, kicking up an older post...

There was a bit of an aesthetic shift earlier in the lore. VERY early BT had battlemechs that were inspired, obviously, from what they had in anime. Although there was a top speed, mechs were written about as more flexible and dynamic. they would reach out and do things, they would bow, Melee was par for the course. Never really Gundam or even Macross levels of mobility, but Dougram makes the perfect example (And if enough names were switched around, would fit perfectly in the Battletech setting).

Then I'm guessing it was the combination of the Virtual World pods and Mechwarrior 1 that started things down the trend of 'mechs being rigid "Walking tanks". Players were suddenly able to strap into the cockpits of the giant robots that they'd read about and played on a hexmap, but technical limitations meant there was only so much that could be done.
It was around the same time that the Clan-tech designs came out, and all of them had a very modular, but rigid feel to them that makes them appear like they could only operate as the walking tanks that the computer games reflected. Mechwarrior 2's massive popularity would have only semented it.

Further, there is culturally more of an appeal of military equipment that "Gets the job done" rather than bright and flashy, even if the get the job done feeling is made purely by decoration (Thus, tacticool). Especially with Duane Loose's industrial-design and blueprint-like illustrations that felt very similar to the then-popular Jane's illustrated guide to "Shit that blows stuff up", it helped to distance Battletech from the anime-inspiration and the space opera feel to having a more industrial setting that made suspension of disbelief that much easier.

...That's what I'm thinking why Battletech distanced itself from the dancing giant robot vibe.

>>52115975

AMS occupies fire control slots but doesn't require gunners, per the Tech Manual.

As for the cargo counts and fire control fuckups, it's actually significant. Any ship that needed fire control didn't have it properly calculated from Heavy Metal, the Conqueror goes from a cargo bay of 44,651 tons in FM: Warden Clans to a cargo bay of 22,100 tons in TR: 3067.

If you don't exceed 20 weapons per firing arc and don't use AMS at all (like most older vessels) then HMA's fuckery won't have *that* much of an effect on things unless you are cutting your final tonnage value very fine. If you plan to have more than 20 weapons per arc or to use AMS, it will shit the bed.

I have a small WarShip question
What is the actual orbital bombardment power/threat level for the canon corvettes? What about the Lola-series destroyers?

>>52117303
Mostly enough to level a city block or two of medium to hardened buildings every aerospace turn (They're something minutes instead of ten seconds but I forget how many) That's still a scary amount in a campaign.

Now if you count 50 megaton Santa Ana's you can load into your White Shark launchers then it gets a lot uglier.

>>52117303
Less effective than tossing nukes out of the back of a dropper, but tactically very dangerous in terms of support fire
Of the corvettes, the Bonaventure is completely worthless in that role and the rest are all about the same; they can do lots of tactical/operational scale damage, but aren't *that* effective on a strategic level. The Lolas are rather more dangerous

>>52117303

Not great for corvettes. Destroyers, way less than in the novels.

>>52116359
I just checked Techmanual, it says it doesn't need gunners. As it's not a weapons system, it shouldn't need FCS either. I'm really trying to find a place where it says it needs FCS. Despite that, HM:A does actually include FCS tonnage when running AMS. On a whim I loaded the default WarShip template and placed 2 bays of 20 AMS' each in the nose arc; I'm told that it requires gunners, but that's probably because it's created as a Point Defense bay.

As I said about cargo, just check out the spare parts and food/water listings and add them together. It'll match up. re: FM:CruClan, wasn't that written back when BS/AT1 were the rulesets for creating large craft? Need I remind you of how many large craft from that transition were affected?

>>52117303
Any large craft that mounts naval missile launchers is great for that. AR10s make it wonderful since you can switch between munition types depending upon if you need larger scale damage (Killer Whale) or more precision (Barracuda). They all do splash damage.

Arguably tied and possibly superceding them are anything that mounts NLs. Any ship that mounts them is plentiful with them, and as long as you can sink the heat, you can bombard nearly indefinitely. A NL55 will wreck virtually anything underneath it.

>>52117813

>I just checked Techmanual, it says it doesn't need gunners.

And because it's an item that occupies weapon slots, it occupies fire control. Canon vessels only work out to their listed values if you calculate it that way too.

FM: Warden Clans was written with AT2 rules and the then up to date HMA.

If you really want to use a program that will fuck up your designs and make them illegal, go for your life though. I've highlighted some reasons why the program isn't even used by CGL, and it's not like their checking is great. But if CGL is deciding something is too shitty to make use of...

>>52110745
A ground combat turn is 10 seconds. Total Warfare, 1st sentence under the section "playing the game", subsection "A note on scale and the rules".

A space combat turn is equivalent to 6 ground turns.

>>52116305
> Clan-tech designs came out, and all of them had a very modular, but rigid feel to them that makes them appear like they could only operate as the walking tanks that the computer games reflected.
Weisman actually confirmed this in a recent HBS interview as part of the marketing for the upcoming Battletech game. In particular, the concept for Clan Omnimechs came out of hardware limitations they had to contend with in the Virtual World Battlepods - the short of it is that for the games they built models that got digitized into sprites, and to save time and money they built the 'mechs out of similar parts - arms, limbs, and the like, and from this they had the idea of the Clans using 'mechs with interchangeable parts. Starts at about 19:45 here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0BX6tCGp7g&t=19m45s

Among other things he also notes that while Kerensky's Exodus was written as a future plot hook, there wasn't any sort of long term idea at the time for the Clan Invasion in the future.

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>>52114226
Wendy, I can fly!

Anybody wanna watch me play MWO for a bit? I'm trying to get this OBS stuff set up for streaming

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>>52116305
>Never really Gundam or even Macross levels of mobility

Excuse me?
If anything, Gundams and Valkyries in robot mode are far, far less mobile than anything found in Battletech.

> it helped to distance Battletech from the anime-inspiration
Except it's literally what Destroids were like and a lot of anime still uses.
A lot of the people I find shitting on anime have seen jack shit and talk all high and mighty about how the setting changes the norms when it's really done nothing special. At least not in terms of "being different than Japanese works".

>>52119480
>Excuse me?
If anything, Gundams and Valkyries in robot mode are far, far less mobile than anything found in Battletech.
Clearly you have not watched much Gundam. Zakus have a 6/9 ground movement profile and can fly for as long as they have booster fuel. Doms are also 6/9 and can fly, but they also bump up to 24 hexes in wige mode. Later Mobile Suits are even faster, with infinite duration minovsky particle boosters

>>52119538
I'm talking agility, not getting around the place. A not so fortunate choice of words on my part but the conversation topic in question is clear.

>>52119538
I'm no expert on Gundam, but there is this about the Zaku:
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/msgundam/ms-05b.htm
>Performance: 180-degree turn time 2.9 seconds; maximum ground running speed 120 km/h

In this file they say one of these is about 50 tons unloaded, and 65 loaded. So you have something like a Catapult running at Locust speeds. I don't know what to think about that.

On top of that it's able to make a 180 in just under 1/3 of a turn from our game's perspective. I don't know how the Gundam physics works in terms of momentum and direction change, but that's... well I don't know what to say either.

I have seen four of those Gundam shows and well, it seems off. Many times characters aim with laser weaponry and because of bull crap "hurr I r newtype" they can predict and dodge freaking laser weaponry. This is one of the many reasons I prefer BT. Even a green pilot in a Stinger can manage a few laser-induced armor scratching shots on an elite Atlas here and there and contribute to some extent in a battle. But that's just my two loaned C-bills talking.

>>52119652
>I have seen four of those Gundam shows and well, it seems off. Many times characters aim with laser weaponry and because of bull crap "hurr I r newtype" they can predict and dodge freaking laser weaponry.

I never said Gundam is a good series, I never liked it myself.
However, there aren't any real data on their performance. The shows themselves when not in full QUALITY mode show off the physics rather decently.

>>52119642
This is the realist of real robots in Gundam, and they're still fairly comparable to 5/8 70-80 ton battlemechs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aDphRCyQTg

This is Is on par with a 6/9 medium
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUVDvW7YP1c

This is Gundam
https://youtu.be/H1EI1DikfRA?t=47m2s

>>52119652
>maximum ground running speed 120 km/h
Not quite. Although the Zaku and Zaku II can both reach overland speeds over 100 kph thats only when skating in ground effect hover. Their top speed on foot is jst over 80 kph, that makes them more like 6/8/10/12(WiGE)

As for newtype space magic, fuck Universal Century in general

>>52120119
I don't know, man. I just read that stuff from off of mahq. I try not to delve too deeply into Gundam lest I catch the otaku virus and start ending up with Haruhi body pillows, eating pocky and worshipping flat chested J-pop singing idols and stuff.
I used to hang out on /a/ to try to just learn things. Emphasis on "used to."
I don't know where mahq gets their info, but it's as far as I am going to research that.

With that said, again another reason why I love BT. There is a strict rule set in making your own machines. What can some /m/echa bro do to make their own Gundam and fight the never ending emo wars in the theater of their own minds?

>>52120086

Wow, another anime lover. I guess it's pedos all the way down in the Battletech fandom.

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>>52120230

>>52113400
>You can't exactly go searching door-to-door with mechs.

If it's set in an US-style suburb?
Lift roof, scan inhabitants, move to next building.

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>>52114226
>>52119109
I still maintain that an Urbanmech LAM should be based on this.

>>52117956

And thank you for being redundant. Already been corrected.

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>>52120086
>This is Gundam
>https://youtu.be/H1EI1DikfRA?t=47m2s

This is not Gundam. It's literally a different universe only related in name.
You might as well post Wing or, even better, G Gundam.

>>52120147
>What can some /m/echa bro do to make their own Gundam and fight the never ending emo wars in the theater of their own minds?
Gundam Build Fighters. Gundams are about something else than jerking yourself off over the most game-breaking gausswall or stomping helpless Locusts in a Mad Cat.
Really though, Gundam World Championship is about making the best looking models/dioramas, custom or canon.
Separates people into categories so you have kids, adults, expensive allowed or not,...

It would have been nice if Battletech had something similar.

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>>52120585
G Gundam was fuckin' sweet though. As for IBO, at least it has some amazing gunpla

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>>52121091
>G Gundam was fuckin' sweet though. As for IBO, at least it has some amazing gunpla

I'm not saying they're bad, but using them as an example of THE GUNDAM is akin to pointing to Crittertek as THE BATTLETECH.
Surely you see where I'm going with this.

>>52120230
>>52120236

Aina is under 18, though, so it's not unreasonable to assume someone who likes 8th MS team is probably a pedo.

>>52120585
>Gundam Build Fighters.
I did not know about this. Thank you.

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>>52121197
Ass... umptions...

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Super delusional Battletech fans pretending that their giant robot aren't weeb in this thread.

Javelin Canon variants added to release folder, variant folder slowly getting .mtfs :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t093lvk5yzjayxo/Sprite%20Release.7z?dl=0

>>52121318
Build Fighters is basically a 25 episode toy commercial, but its a pretty good toy commercial

>>52120511
Great. Now you have me thinking about Cosmos from the original Transformers line. Years ago /co/ had a TF general and occasionally would their own memes about Cosmos being lonely in space or some such. I don't know. Maybe make my Urbie LAMs like the aliens from the original Space Invaders? Maybe like the UFOs from Command & Conquer Red Alert 2? The possibilities are endless.

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>>52120086
Honestly, from the books I've read, even the first example there feels too nimble for a light mech.

Now, that's not to say that Gundam is bad, it's just a beast of a different nature. They're coming from a long tradition of robots as superheroes. Dougram tried to push the formula even further into the realism camp, but while that flies well with western audiences, there's good reason why Dougram has not continued to exist in Japan outside of plastic models.

Differentiating Battletech from Gundam isn't calling one or the other bad any more than differentiating a hotdog from a burger is bad, but even the most grounded of the Gundams, 08th MS team, would be pushing it as far as far as old BT literature described things, even for lights. Mechs had the speed, and while they could be more dextrous than the mechwarrior-style "My elbows are permanently bent at a 90-degree angle and fists are for decoration", it would take a hell of a showboating pilot in a Javelin to get them to move anything like GMs do on a day to day.

>>52121414
Well I grew up in the 80s, the land of toy commercials all day; every day, so I can probably handle it. I just finished the horribleness that is Zeta Gundam and washing that mess with other stuff so I'll look it up later and give it a shot. Thanks.

>>52120585
>Gundam World Championship is about making the best looking models/dioramas, custom or canon.
>Separates people into categories so you have kids, adults, expensive allowed or not,...
>It would have been nice if Battletech had something similar.

Or any other giant robot series, honestly.

Patlabor, Front Mission, Virtual On, Macross, Dougram, Votoms... the list goes on for ages.
...but everything focuses on Gundam.

>>52121460
>Zeta
>Horrible
That's a human soul weighed down by gravity. I bet you don't even UNDEFEATED OF THE EAST.

File: 1489144067024.jpg (38KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 500x375px

>>52121510
I have been trying Gundam series one at a time based off of a big chart /m/ came up with listing every series up to a certain point. They warn you that the characters are unlikeable. I had no idea. I hate that show so bad.

I am not exaggerating when I said me and a friend watched a few episodes together, and we started suffering narcolepsy, real narcolepsy watching that mess. I felt less investment in Zeta than I did slogging through freaking Twilight movies while watching them with Rifftrax. At least with Rifftrax I could laugh at the horribleness.

That show is more autistic than Camille. It made me hate everybody and yes, I watched all 50 damn episodes of it. I actually thought the original 1970s version held up damn decently for basically and old toy commercial, but Zeta... my friend dropped out and swore to gut me like a fish if I made that person watch one more minute of it.

I'm going to intermittently go through more Gundams until I finish most of that chart, but hell if that didn't put a bad taste in my mouth. Wow.

>>52121505
Well, you know, its gundam. The grand daddy of modern mecha

>>52121568
I never said it's a great series, but the last half dozen episodes are pretty good. Watch the OVAs, not the mainline series for UC. 0080, 0083, 08th MS Team. Otherwise, you get ZZ, which starts out a comedy and ends up just as depressing as Zeta. Also, G Gundam is top tier.

>>52121568
Its still better than SEED

HOW DO YOU SURVIVE A GUNDAM EXPLOSION FROM THE INSIDE THE COCKPIT

Besides any Unseen what are some staple mechs for a merc force?

Say one built on the eve of the Jihad.

>>52121593
/m/ would hate me, but I didn't hate ZZ. That starting off light and getting heavy is a story concept I learned watching stuff like the old Slayers, so I'm fine with that.
Zeta is my fifth Gundam series, and unfortunately the english dub for G Gundam ruined that for me. Ear-raping.
>>52121606
I had an ex-girlfriend who loved Gundam Seed. Ex. She also had ADHD and was hiding the fact she was a borderline personality disorder chick, so I was on freaking edge every day of our relationship before I ejected from my mech while being crushed inside a building, for a mental visual.
I consider SEED the way I consider Twilight. If a chick or a guy likes that mess, we can't be romantically involved or just friends. I will be civil with that person, but you stay on your half of the earth and I will launch Urbie ICBMs at you from my side.

>>52121665
The ham of the english dub makes G Gundam even better, I think. But I like cheesy movies.

Or we could all just not watch Gundumb. If you want weeb shit at least go for VOTOMS.

>>52121683
There was some... chick (I think) or dude... or chick playing a young guy whose voice was so horrible it made me want to sterilize newborn puppies with a spoon so it would hurt longer. The only other dub that made me hurt that bad was Brigadoon (that might be an /m/ show, it's been a while since I was subjected to that nightmare.)

>>52121703
For me, Dougram, Patlabor, early Macross and Dai-Guard.

New bread using one of our anon's toasty new paint schemes.
>>52121716

>>52121703
>getting this but blasted over chinese cartoons
Avatar the last airbender was more weeb than Gundam Thunderbolt. Think about that

>>52121713
Ah yes, Sai Saishi. Yes, his voice actress was shit. She got better later on. And all the actors admitted that they didn't have the show down properly until about 20 episodes in and wanted to go back to redo them but Bandai wouldn't let them.

>>52120511
LAM Urbie flying Santa Atlas on Christmas Eve in his sleigh! LAM Urbie's twin ER LLs glow red and the ER SLs glow blue shining the waaaaaay.

>>52121734
>Sai Saishi
I think I looked up this... individual back in the day when I watched that, saved a text file page from the place I looked her up and saved it into a folder saying, "NEVER AGAIN," or never-hire or some such.
Pain... so much pain.

>>52121568
Zeta sucks and is only good for the background info you need for ZZ and other things that reference it like 0083.

Well, that plus a few classic scenes like a handful of Char ones and tossing crippled Jerid off Mt Kilimanjaro.

>>52101010
Herb's polls would mean more if they hadn't been so goddamned easy to miss. They should have been up-front in the General Discussion board rather than tucked away in some special board where there's no reason to be, 90% of the time.

>>52121793
Don't forget the best mook suit of the late UC, the motherfucking Rick Dias.

>>52121665
What are you talking about? ZZ was great. It's got one of the best Earth arcs in a UC series and is the first time we see stuff like real Zeon remnants from the one year war. So many of the UC OVA's and Movies keep going back to the well of ZZ for ideas.

>>52121823
I like the idea for the background, but everybody there is an insufferable, well, I'm no gynecologist, but I can tell an inflamed, infected, bleeding vag when I see one. I liked Char in the original series, but he was not utilized well here. Like /m/ said in that chart, everybody is unlikeable, and when you don't like the characters, you don't stay invested or care what happens on screen, leading to literal problems with narcolepsy on my part and one of my friends. I actually got a sudden emotional hug from my gf in public as she felt sorry for me for finishing that show. I simply cannot agree. If I didn't have Fist of the North Star to cleanse from that, it would have been a bad Friday.

>>52121882
You're talking about Zeta. Char isn't in ZZ. The two shows are totally different other than a couple shared characters and the continuance of the Axis Zeon plot. That said, the first few episodes of ZZ before they get off the junker colony kinda suck. They have some fun moments but it's just some serious tonal whiplash.

>>52121917
Ah screw me I made an error. Don't worry, like all BT products you just have to wait a few years for the errata sheet to come out and stop people from abusing my mistakes.
I goofed.