Tyranid Improvements Thread

>>52059542
A few suggestions right off the bat:

Special rules
>Shadow: affects warp charges, maybe reduces them
>Synapse: maybe unit specific buffs? Needs the double strength Eternal Warrior again
>Instinctive behavior: One table, no more cannibalism. Falling back should be towards nearest Synapse unit

general unit changes:
>bring back statline upgrades for units with battlefield role options
>make certain specialists unit upgrades for Gaunts (Venomthropes, Hive guard, Warriors...)
>Units of specialists get buffs for being taken in groups
>Carnifex regains distraction 'fex status
>How to fix pyrovores: Make them Beasts, make their guns torrent.
>Lictors: can only deep strike within difficult terrain, can charge on turn the arrive
>genestealers are now Purestrains from GC.
>Tyranid Prime needs to drop to 80pts
>Old One eye needs 2+/FnP normal/T7/better regen and a revive special rule. 2 or 3 of the above.
>2 d3 psychic power tables, one for offense, one for buffs

Gaunts 2ppm
Hormagaunts get Furious Charge, assault grenades and Move Through Cover
Termagants get twinlinked on all weapons

Rending Claws become AP2 at initiative

All Tyranids with no ranged weapons gain a rule letting them charge 4d6 drop 2 lowest and charge after running.

Synapse grants Eternal Warrior, It Will Not Die and FNP4+

Lictors and burrowing models can deploy in combat, the enemy can't overwatch or attack in the first round of combat.

All Tyranids can reroll failed saves against Overwatch

+1 toughness on all MCs

Tyranid FMCs inflict hits with their melee weapon stats and attacks when vector striking.

All Tyranid ranged weapons always hit vehicle rear armour.

Lictors are 1-5 per slot, each Lictor in your army extends your deployment zone by 1" and gives +1 to Seize the Initiative.

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Screw those dumb instinctive behavior rules. Most of the time, they don't even make sense. Replace them with something like :

Instinctive behavior
As long as they are out of range of a synapse creature, all tyranids with this rule count as having Leadership 1.

And Kirby, please : DO NOT give this rule to Genestealers and Lictors, ffs.

>>52060023
The thing is, you move your models as their commander. If they're no longer under your control, they may act in different ways. For that, you could probably keep the idea of different IB subtypes, but remove the random table.

New armywide rule: Death Throes

Tyranid monstrous creatures, when killed in melee, inflict a number of autohits equal to the model's initial wounds at its base strength and AP- divided evenly among models in base contact

>>52059542
a buff to movement and running armywide would be nice.

unit type: beast

>>52060023

kirby isnt ceo anymore

>>52060505
Mostly just Hormagaunts, Pyrovores, and the Haruspex.

Could we get rid of the Mawloc and give its ability to Trygons and get rid of Exocrines and give their gun to Tyrannofexes?

>>52060950
I'm torn between getting a Mawloc or Trygon. I've read that the Trygon got nerfed to shit and is too expensive now, while the Mawloc can, with luck, get in a good few noms in a game by digging and popping over and over.

>>52061467
If a trygon can survive getting shot up, it will wreck anything it touches. A mawloc is unfortunately only good for the blast, but can't do much else. That's why I broke mine apart and magnetized the whole thing.

Something to do with adapting, Tyranid fluff is very heavy on the adapting to defeat a particular enemy based on their weaponry.

Making it a chart to roll on before the game doesn't make much sense though, too random

>>52061619
Perhaps something akin to how the Dark Eldar used to work? For every brood that is wiped out, the rest of the army gain an Adaptation token. Each adaptation token grants certain boons like improved Armour save, then toughness, then wounds, etc etc?

>>52061654

Yea I considered that too, only a spawned Tyranid can't adapt on the go, they have to be created with the bonus.

Still would be an effective tabletop fix

>>52061654
>>52061686
Probably less tokens and more a free upgrade based on who you're playing against.

Rather than making gimicky rules why not look at what their problems are currently and then come up with fixes to the issues that keep them from functioning properly? What specifically keeps them from being competitive?

>>52061889
Lack of speed, lack of flexibility. There are too many units that you just buy as they are without options, unlike previous incarnations of the codex. Our MCs are too expensive, our troops can't get shit done, and our specialists are too fragile.

>>52061654
>>52061619
Tyranids don't adapt to shit on the fly.
The Hive fleet PRODUCES new critters with suitable adaptations. The individual nids don't adapt. They die and get replaced with an improved version.

>>52061919

Ok, what upgrades would help with flexability. I understand there used to be more options back in the day. What could you bring back?

Increased movement speed? Something like the rules Skitarii have?

Point drop on MCs?

Would that fix them?

>>52062239
Statline upgrades, first of all. some of the offensive biomorphs as well.

yeah, like skitarii. There are a lot of infantry and a few specialists and MCs that could use an extra 3" to move.

Not just points drops: I think a few MC's need stat drops that can be bought back alongside a points drop. That high WS, S, and A don't help very much when I've built a two gun Tyrant or Carnifex.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/pjfqb9j4di96dtn/Codex_Tyranids_v_2.3.pdf

I've posted this a couple times. Feel free to steal ideas from it. I'm trying out a new synapse system with it that can be a bit harder to deal with late game but let's you spread out with a bit more confidence. But that's still in the real early stages of testing.

As a heads up, my group uses 6" charge ranges and the old version of the Rage rule.

>>52059542
Bring back the ludicrous customisation you could give everything. Just do that. I don't care about anything else except for maybe cost reductions.

>>52063531
This.

>>52063493
Wait, so IB applies if the unit is locked in combat?

>>52063493
Scythe Tail: Should the strength of the attack round up or down?

>>52064352
No, it only applies to models that meet the requirements listed in the first paragraph under IB, so they would have to be unengaged.

>>52064587
Up. Thanks for the catch. I'll add that.

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>>52059542
Oh good, someone did make a new thread. I was about to do it myself but I checked the catalog just in case.

Still got a link to the old one in the archive for anyone who missed it >>51907064

Status update on my book:

Hive Tyrant (and Tyrant Guard) Datasheet is done except for Genofixed Strain upgrades (I would explain what those are but it'll just be easier to see when it's finished), pic related.

Hormagaunts, Termagants, Gargoyles, Genestealers+Broodlord, and Carnifexes are pretty much done.

I'm making a final pass on the Army-wide special rules right now, then I'll go over the psychic powers again because one of the psychic tables is kind of key to the whole army.

>>52065207
Keep up the good work, anoon

Bump. Don't die.

Page 10, really? this is much slower than the last thread

>>52069136
>>52071170
Bumping for the Hive Mind

>>52071170
>>52071304
Sorry, been busy with an unrelated game design project.

I'm still hammering out psychic powers. Probably will jump to Instinctive Behaviour and finish that and then go back to it, then post some stuff for feedback.

>>52065207
Wymorex being a snake thing?

>>52065207
I'm wondering if we could come up with Synapse specific abilities, depending on the unit in question. Tyrants affect the swarm in a different way from Warriors, so why not reflect that? Say, allow warriors to choose one friendly non-Synapse unit that can move and allow them to move 3" at the end of the Assault phase? For Tyrants, make them improve the overall strategy: +1 to Reserves, or reroll one friendly Outflanking unit, or reroll a DS scatter, or maybe allow one friendly unit to not scatter if they DS within 12" of it.

Rate my buff

>If Tyranid units are not under the synapse range, they will start cannibalizing themselves.

>>52074216
Cruddace/10

Why do we have a Tyranid Improvements general when you can still make them viable ? Sure you have basically one list to work with and it smells like rancid cheese, but it's still something.

Meanwhile, Orks are utterly unplayable on a competitive environment even with the IA stuff.

Don't missunderstand me, Nids have it bad, but not as bad as Vanilla Deldars or Orks.

>>52074771
Orks definitely need some love too. I don't play them though so I don't have that same feel for how they should play.

Definitely would like to see the klanz better represented though.

>>52074771
No one's saying they don't, I'm actually surprised that we don't see more fix Orks threads. The thing is, one good build doesn't make a codex as a whole good. The main concern is that the rest of the codex is overshadowed by the bullshit people use for competitive games.

>>52072566
Wyrmorex is a flyrant.

>>52074157
That is sort of reflected through the Hive Mind Imperatives table and also the genofixed strain upgrades on the Hive Tyrants.

>>52074771
Tyranids are just more popular. It's harsh to say but true. If Tyranids were in a better place and I had the time I would do Orks instead.

>>52076497
Hive mind Imperatives? where are those in the PDF?

>>52074771
I quit playing 40k when they released 6th edition, but even I still check on how Nids are doing these days because I still really like the models and would still be collecting if their codex weren't super boring.

Serious contribution? I agree with the guys saying to give Nids their options back. Let them be an army that fulfills various roles adaptively, instead of having one specific model that does only the role some chimp at GW wanted them to do.

Non-serious contribution?
>>52074713
>Cruddace/10

Let's make it so Lictors always count as moving through difficult terrain. Hive Guard weapons are now small blast weapons. Increase carnifex point cost to 360 base. Add the Heirophant to the standard game, but make it T6 3+ so my Guardsman can shoot it to death. Remove all weapons options from the codex so that Nids can't equip anything I don't expect. Add a rule to my personal army's codex that lets me re-roll misses when I target Nids. Did I nerf lictors yet? Make it so lictors are vulnerable to IB, and if they fail their IB check they get confused and join the enemy team, so your opponent gets to use them instead.

Finally, add a shit ton of gimmicks to the codex so that it's unclear for a month or two if any of this is viable.

>>52077795
It's one of the psychic tables, I haven't posted it yet because I'm still working on it. Check the Tyrant's powers and special rules.

>>52062443
personally i don't think we need much of the statline upgrades back.

the current style of upgrades granting special rules is better, upgrades feel more meaningful and there's more of a choice involved than just getting the best stats.


Another thing I'd like too see to deal with the overcrowding of the elites slot.
Steal the platton thing from IG, a tyranid "platoon" being a few gaunt squads as the bulk, warriors as the "command squad" and pyrovores, biovores, venomthropes and hiveguard can be the heavy/special weapon squads.

maybe instead of orders give the warriors are rule that they can grant +1BS/WS to a unit in their platoon. Call it Direct Control or something.

bring the mycetic spore back
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Mycetic_Spore

>>52059542
Half everythings point cost, make Hive Tyrant WS7,S7,T7

Obviously the hivemind takes in the information about how it's been performing and utilizes it to best effect.
Nothing stays grounded, everything has wings.
Flyovores. Aerothropes. Hoverfexes. Flyrant Guard. The works. Pretty much every bug in real life has wings anyways, so it fits, and it means
There, fixed.

>>52078838
'and it means GW can sell ALL NEW MODELS' is, of course, what that one bit was.

>>52078364
Agreed. In most cases we don't really need statline adjustments anymore. A couple of them I moved over to weapons following the GSC precedent - ie, scything talons are now +1 WS, so if you're building a bug for combat it already has the combat buffs.

The one important one is armour save, so the Hardened Carapace upgrade is back (I went with the 'Hardened' name from 2e over 'Extended' from 3&4e because it just rolls off the tongue more easily, and I like callbacks to 2e nids).

>>52078455
We have it, it's called a Tyrannocyte now. Just needs some slight adjustments.

>>52078653
>just reduce the points costs guys!/meme
Your only contribution to the thread was bumping it.

>>52078838
>Pretty much every bug in real life has wings anyways
Tyranids are just as much based off of dinosaurs as they are off of bugs.

>>52078922
>Tyranids are just as much based off of dinosaurs as they are off of bugs.
Yes, that's part of the joke

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>>52078455
Tyrranocyte is better.

It has the same transport capabilities + it can move and shoot.

I for once would like T5 Sv3+ Tyranid Warriors.

Lowered point cost of Bio-Plasma and increase in wings points cost.

>>52078954
Right, sorry I knew you were joking before I started replying to everyone and then forgot by the time I was finishing my post.

Anyways... if people have ideas for what to use for the last psychic power in the Predation discipline, let's hear em.

Currently it is:

Primaris - The Horror
1. Leech Essence (or something similar)
2. Paroxysm
3. Psychic Scream
4. Hypnotic Gaze
5. Warp Blast
6. ??

Possible ideas:
- A new version of the Maleceptor's Psychic Overload
- Something to stultify Overwatch (overlaps with The Horror causing Pinning though)
- A template Witchfire? (Was thinking of doing this for Leech Essence to separate it from the Life Leech in Biomancy)

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Bumpy bump

>>52079420
Bumperino

>>52079177
Maybe make #6 spawn a small fortification? I've always wanted capillary nodes and towers to have a bigger role in the game. It would have a Synapse range, or maybe act as a DS beacon.

>>52080865
Too clunky, requires too much rules writing, requires additional models... all sorts of problems with that.

Capillary towers aren't really supposed to do anything at all except siphon biomass gruel up into orbit like a giant straw. Spore Chimneys can be represented by the new Sporocysts. Other Tyranid Fortifications may or may not deserve rules but they should be purchased with the army if so, not summoned with a psychic power.

>>52080946

I did something with those in >>52063493 at the back of the army list. The only thing I could think to do with capillary towers was similar to the beacon idea and have the player able to deploy one unit near each tower when an enemy moves within range.

Also included spore towers and areas of Forrest as secondary fortifications.

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>>52059542
Proxy your tyranids as Eldar

/thread

>>52081131
Nah, you run them as Tau obviously so you can have squads of big-but-not-too-big things to support your monstrous creatures.
Obviously the change to being super shooty is just making sure Living Ammo is accurately represented.

>>52079177
flamer leech essence sounds a nifty idea.


for 6 maybe a debuff that lowers T or I or makes sucessful savea be rerolled, or some comnination of the 3.

>>52084678
>for 6 maybe a debuff that lowers T or I
Lowering Toughness definitely sounds rad oh god that pun was unintentional, I'm already adding lowering Initiative to the effects of Paroxysm.

Making them re-roll saves is interesting since mechanically that's what Living Ammo does on a 6 To Wound, I'm not entirely sure how to fluff it as a power though. I don't want it to just be like a Misfortune situation, that sort of divining stuff doesn't fit the Tyranids.

Probably gonna go with the Toughness debuff one.

>>52059542
>new rule
>tyranid aren't in the game anymore because they obviously don't belong in 40k
FIXED

Every unit should gain a benefit specified on its datasheet for being in synapse.

Biovores re-roll scatter, hormagaunts get furious charge, carnifexes strike at higher initiative etc.

>>52085356
>One of the original 40k armies doesn't belong in 40k

>>52059542
I want more endearing pictures of nids

>>52085381
>unfixed mistakes that last a long time stop being mistakes

>>52085440
You must be talking about Necrons.

>>52085477
filtered

>>52085501
Nice, does that work two ways so I also don't have to read your dumb bullshit? That would be super excellent.

>>52085369
This actually sounds really cool.

>>52085236
maybe toughness and strength debuff. fluff it as an energy drain thing.

I think theres a rulebook power that does s and T. But if nids only can use their trees i wouldn't be concerned about copying a couple of powers from lores they can't access.

>>52085531
It does, but I think in practice it's not necessary with the way I'm already designing the buffs and would eat up some design space that needs to go into Formations and things.

>>52085550
Yes there's a Biomancy power that does that. I have a single Hive Tyrant upgrade that lets it generate powers from Biomancy though so I don't know if I want to rip that one off completely.

>>52085477
And Dark Eldar and Tau.

>>52085569
>Yes there's a Biomancy power that does that. I have a single Hive Tyrant upgrade that lets it generate powers from Biomancy though so I don't know if I want to rip that one off completely
oh ok.

maybe just go for more shooting then?
maybe a "Warp Rift" power as a fleshbane, armourbane AP2 line?

>>52085825
>maybe a "Warp Rift" power as a fleshbane, armourbane AP2 line?
That seems way too powerful for a Tyranid-tier mindbullet. Stuff like that should be left to Daemons (press "F" to pay respects to Thousand Sons).

I'll keep thinking about it.

In other news, Army-wide rules are essentially finalized.

>>52085825
Warp blast is a pretty decent psychic shooting attack, what it lacks is an anti- infantry, lots of shots equivalent for shooting squads with. (blasts are awful)

>>52085961
I'm thinking the template version of life leech I suggested probably covers anti-infantry.

For the most part I feel like Tyranids offensive powers should be support/debuff oriented, that's why I really liked the idea of the toughness reducing one. Just gotta find a way to make it different enough from the Biomancy one to make them distinct, and also not make stacking them too breakable...

>>52085356
And what army do you play, friend?

>>52086150
maybe have it lower toughness and count as moving in difficult terrain next turn. fluff it is a cold power that leechs heat or something.

How to fix Tyranids:

>Fulgrim demonstrates his powerlevel by obliterating all Tyranid hive fleets

>>52086278
Right, see, that's actually what the Biomancy one does, lol.

Enfeeble - target unit suffers -1 penalty to Strength and Toughness, treats all terrain as difficult terrain.

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Alright, folks, status update and itinerary.

Here's the rough draft on Army-Wide SRs (the final one will be nicely formatted and look consistent with the Hive Tyrant datasheet I posted here >>52065207 ).

Now I'm going back to touch up psychic trees some more, then it's back to finishing Tyrant genofixed strains. These three things sort of affected each other to various degrees so I've been stuck in the tangled mess of trying to figure out which to do first but I think I'm almost done.

Once this stuff has been figured out, MOST of the rest of the datasheets should go extremely fast apart from figuring out points costs, then it's on to doing bio-weapons and biomorphs.

After that it'll be Formations for the various Decurions (there will be three), as well as Hive Fleet tactics (similar to Traitor Legions rules).

I expect it'll take me about a week to get to playtest worthy status. Then I'll work on the fluff portions (I have a ton of shit for that scattered across 5 years of notes, unfinished short stories, and plans) while I let playtest feedback trickle in, and I'll make balance adjustments to the final document in between fluff work.

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>>52087334
Oh, one thing I forgot to include, still gotta do that Shadows in the Warp table.

>Synapse Creatures can lose their Synapse after three rounds and you have to roll the dice to determine if they can keep the Synapse effect or not
>Remove the unit if it loses the Synapse effect

Bumping once more before I go to bed just to keep the thread topped off.

Nothing on my schedule tomorrow so it should be a productive day.

>>52087522
Crud/10

>>52086412
Fulgrim is as much of a NEET as Lorgar. He won't do anything productive ever.

>>52086191
Considering how it went: newcrons.

>>52087334
tyranids should be able to use fortifications.
their rules are generic enough and easily represent more stationary growths like spore chimneys or what ever you plan to make up.

>>52087522
Unassimilatable Bio-Mass/10

Also Buff Rupture.

Give Hive Tyrants and other HQ units wacky personalities

>turn them into monstergirls.

>>52059542
>Pyrovore gains torrent (probs needs rework)
>Gaunts can purchase without number
>Swarmlord either needs rework, to be cut or drop about 150 points
>Fexs and Tyrants can purchase 2+ save
>Warriors are T5
>Synapse creatures themselves gain a 6+ FNP
>Shadow in the warp causes enemy in range to peril on any double OR nids can negate one warp charge within range
>Warrior squads produce 1 WC but have no powers
>Psychic powers need reworking
>Lictors can only be snapshotted at first turn they arrive
>Stealers are now GSC stealer or drop them to 10-11 points
>All MC drop by about 30-40 points
>Remove feed
>Drop tyrant price but increase wing cost

Plenty m ore I can think of

>>52089900
>Pyrovore
Replace it completely with a new version of it and fluff it out as a evolutionary improvement.

>Gaunts can purchase without number
Fair enough.

>Swarmlord
Give him FNP (4+), Eternal Warrior and give his Bonesabers Shred.

>Fexs and Tyrants can purchase 2+ save
Fair enough.

>Warriors are T5
Add a 3+ Sv and you sold me.

>Synapse creatures themselves gain a 6+ FNP
This can work.

>Shadow in the warp causes enemy in range to peril on any double OR nids can negate one warp charge within range
That can work.

>Warrior squads produce 1 WC but have no powers
Dunno here. Need to think about it.

>Psychic powers need reworking
That and allow Nids to use Biomancy and other disciplines that would fit them.

>Lictors can only be snapshotted at first turn they arrive
Agreed here.

>Stealers are now GSC stealer or drop them to 10-11 points
The latter is better.

>All MC drop by about 30-40 points
Add points drop of certain Biomorphs and it's better.

>Remove feed
YES.

>Drop tyrant price but increase wing cost
Agreed here. Flyrant spam is stupid here.

Also buff Rupture Cannon.

>>52085356
The Tyranid's role as terrifying, nigh-unstoppable monsters would certainly be reasserted if you moved them wholesale to Bolt Action though.

>>52090119
I actually really like there being different rules for Genestealers and Purestrains. Purestrains are older stronger and smarter, but Nid codex Genestealers are vat grown en masse to be thrown onto the battlefield. One is carefully crafted by age and experience, the other is assembly lined. It's a similar difference between Patriarchs and Broodlords.

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>>52091734
Yeah, I agree with this. It's why GSC ones are Elites and Tyranid ones are Troops. Tyranid Genestealers just need a drop in price to around 10 points per model.

>>52075259
As a tyranid player, my 2 friends play orks and eldar... me and my friend need help

>>52091746
>>52091734
Hence the drop them to 10-11 points

>>52090119
>>52089900
>Rupture cannon is AP2
>Tyrannofex is BS4
>Hive guard have exocrine targeting thing, where if they stop they become BS4
>Venom cannon needs major rework
>Bioplasma needs a huge points drop
>Bring back loads of biomorphs for fex
>Increase carnfiex attacks or WS
>Haruspex needs better WS
>Rework malecptor and toxicrene
>Gaunts beasts
>>Warriors drop to 25 points, but are standard 2 scything talons, can upgrade to rending claws or devourer for 5pts, also T5, possible 3+ save as a upgrade to purchase
>Scything talons allows re rolls of 1
>Double Scything talons allow re rolls to wound
>Dual rending claws rend on a 5+
>Devourer and Fleshborer have living ammo, may re rolls fails to wound of 1

Yet again probably more I have forgotten, need to make walking tyrants viable again too

>>52091890
>malecptor
Maleceptor needs his power reduced in WC-wise to WC1 instead of 2. Also have his PM increased by 1.

>Toxicrene
Add Monster Hunter and have its tentacles become ranged weapons against Monstrous and Gargantuan Creatures.

Toxicrene is relentless.

>>52059542
New warlord traits please? Number 6 is the only passable one and its not incredible

>>52092514
I'd remake Bane of Nature into Bane of Worlds.

A large piece of terrain is made into a Dangerous Terrain for enemy units, while your own can move through it normally and even get the Crusader USR.

>>52092833
It might make more sense to be able to place a marker down, and the area within 6" of the marker is Dangerous Terrain for all enemy units. It's less fluffy, but involves less rules lawyering.

>>52092890
Make it 12" and yer sold me.

>>52088750
I'm not making rules for anything that doesn't have a plastic model. Tyranids can buy terrain features like jungles and such as in Planetary Onslaught, but I'm not giving them Fortifications.

>>52089900
>>Pyrovore gains torrent (probs needs rework)
No, people need to stop saying this. It doesn't make sense with the fluff. Pyrovores should be special weapons platforms mixed in with Ripper Swarms.

>Gaunts can purchase without number
Formation bonus.

>Swarmlord either needs rework, to be cut or drop about 150 points
All special characters should be removed.

>Fexs and Tyrants can purchase 2+ save
Most definitely.

>Warriors are T5
Warriors and Raveners should be S&T5, W2. Lictors and Primes T5 W3.

>Synapse creatures themselves gain a 6+ FNP
It starts to make the synapse special rule feel too busy. A reworked Catalyst is fine.

>>Shadow in the warp causes enemy in range to peril on any double OR nids can negate one warp charge within range
I went with the first option, but it also has a unique perils table.

>Warrior squads produce 1 WC but have no powers
Why not make them brotherhood of psykers? All synapse should be psykers.

>Lictors can only be snapshotted at first turn they arrive
Among a hundred other things.

>Stealers are now GSC stealer or drop them to 10-11 points
GSC stealers was basically GW saying "yes we know this is how stealers should be but we cant errata the existing Codex so we'll make up some fluff about purestrains being older and better" so yes, they should all be like this, no points drop.

>All MC drop by about 30-40 points
Half of them should be GCs and go up in points a bit.

>Remove feed
I reworked the whole special rule.

>Drop tyrant price but increase wing cost
Their price is actually perfect with some survivability buffs for walkrants.

>>52090119
>Warriors are T5
>Add a 3+ Sv and you sold me.
Upgradable, certainly not base.

>>52091734
Addressed above.

>>52092514
Tyranids should not have Warlord traits at all.

>>52093061
>Tyranids can buy terrain features like jungles and such as in Planetary Onslaught, but I'm not giving them Fortifications

they don't need new fortifications. the generic ones are fine rules wise. It'd just be under the assumption that a suitable coversion is used much like ork or eldar armies with fortifications.

>All special characters should be removed
nah keep them in they're cool. just refluff them as rarely produced resource intensive strains again.

>>52094195
>they don't need new fortifications. the generic ones are fine rules wise.
Absolutely not. Taking things like void shield generators with Tyranids is about as fluff-rape as allying them with Tau.

And so is your proposal for special characters. They were never fluffed as "rarely produced resource intensive strains", that's ridiculous. They were one-off mutations that occurred spontaneously on single planets and were reabsorbed after use.

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>>52059542
Bring back modular fexes god damn.

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Gib EW please

>>52095330
That should probably be another thing chalked up on the list of "things Tyranids should NOT have", alongside Characters and Fortifications.

>>52095755
Well, it used to be a staple of Synapse back in 4th, so I dunno.

>>52095775
Even then it wasn't total immunity to Instant Death, only from weapons with strength double the targets toughness.

You know what also prevents instant death from weapons double your toughness? Higher toughness.

Eternal Warrior is reserved for legendary heroes and Relics, and even then some special characters don't even get it.

Tyranids don't have any individuals that are so important to the race that they need to be protected to that extent, except maybe a Norn Queen, which will never be seen on the tabletop.

Big nids should be extremely tough, but still ultimately expendable.

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>>52094241
>Absolutely not. Taking things like void shield generators with Tyranids is about as fluff-rape as allying them with Tau
not at all. I'm not talking about taking the imperial void shield model.
But you do something like this, convert up a tyranid version, a stationary zoanthrope strain that projects its warpfield much further Use the rules for a void sheild since they fit. Looks cool and 100% fluffy.
the 3e codex had the not actually unique angle. They where just rarely recorded because there was normally no survivors.

>>52094241
>fluff-rape as allying them with Tau.
so not fluff rape in the slightest then.
Tau genestealer cults are a thing.

>>52095755
The hivemind keeps the bodies of its creations intact son. Its the trade off for zero psychic tables.

You think like spacekike

>>52079026
Wow, a model from awaken realms that doesn't look like airbrush autism.

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>>52096109
You can always feel free to add your own homebrews like this to games but it feels very out of place, even with a proper conversion, for an actual Codex.

>>52096138
Tau Genestealer Cults wouldn't look anything like Tau armies, they'd look like a mix between the aesthetic of the GSC Codex and gue'la auxiliaries. They wouldn't be toting battlesuits and all that nonsense.

>>52096213
>The hivemind keeps the bodies of its creations intact son.
Yes, that's called the Catalyst psychic power. Not Eternal Bloody Warrior.

>>52087395
Also this is done now.

>>52095755
>alongside Characters and Fortifications

Depending on what you mean by that I might have to call you a faggot. Red Terror, Swarmlord, etc, are all great. And living fortifications would be the shit.

>>52096997
If you like the Swarmlord you either haven't been playing long enough or don't understand Tyranids enough to have an opinion. Even speaking it's name in the same breathe as The Red Terror is idiotic.

>>52096308
>They wouldn't be toting battlesuits and all that nonsense
sure they would. human cults get human tanks and mechs.

>>52096308
>You can always feel free to add your own homebrews like this to games but it feels very out of place, even with a proper conversion, for an actual Codex.

I'm not saying put them in the codex. just leave it as it is instead of homebrewing in a restriction on something currently every codex can use with usually the same assumptions on conversion.

>>52096109
Good gravy thats a neat looking conversion

>>52096138
>>52096308
>Tau genestealer cults
Knowing the Tau, they would probably isolate the infested world and study the cult activity, willingly sacrificing their people "for the greater good". Tau would probably even encourage genestealers to try and pilot the battlesuits.

>>52097261
It would be fine if they just dropped the whole "has his own personality" thing.

>>52085935
Maybe warp blast could be worked around with a sort of concussive explosion sort of thing.

Does concussion do anything in 40k anymore? Did it ever?

>>52093061
I agree with all the things.

Especially the shift for a few MC's to GC's.

>>52098302
A battlesuit isn't something that sits in a dusty warehouse for decades and gets forgotten about until it turns up missing.

>>52099340
>knowing the Tau
Sounds like you don't know the Tau at all, then.

>>52079177
Summon Rippers. Bases and bases of Rippers.

>>52099788
it reduced I to 1 in the next turn.
usually thunderhammers have this.

could work. If we follow the same progression as the other to profiles we'd get Range 30 S3 AP4 large blast, which is a servicable profile for killing guardsmen or orks and the like.

>>52100097
no. but battlesuit pilots are a part of the regular armed forces that the cult can infiltrate. its the same way they getbtheir hands on Leman russ tanks or sentinels. Corrupt the crew and they just drive off with it when the time comes.

>>52100280
>>52099788
speaking of expanding the warp blast profiles.
I think this would be the best way to give Tyranids access to strength D now that super heavies are a regular part of the game.
Make it require casting at warp charge 4 Range 12 SD AP1. Zoanthropes do half the number of shots they normally would.

Gives us an option for dealing with a wraithkmnight or baneblade without having to bring our own superheavy, that's not as absurd as wraightguard D guns.

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>>52097261
Yeah, you're a faggot

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My most basic thoughts

Give warriors t5

Make the tyranid prime actually scary for its price range

Lower synapse tax.

Increase bonuses from synapse (baseline 6+fnp?)

Allow unit customization options again via biomorphs (for example living ammo=+1bs, enhanced musculature=+1s)

Price drops for literally every MC, make Dina/trygon etc GCs

Hormas as beasts

That might go quite a ways.

>>52098329
It just doesn't fit the playstyle of an aggressive mobile swarm to have stationary defences like Void Shield generators. It feels like a cheap cop-out for WAAC players and the rules should not enable that. Your argument strikes me as the same argument people use to ally Knights with Tyranids and convert them as Bio-Titans, it's just wrong regardless of what proxy models you use.

>>52099525
Right, well, don't worry I've got a fix. Both fluff and crunchwise. There aren't any datasheets for the nid special characters in my codex but you can effectively build them from scratch with the right upgrades and mutations.

>>52099788
It does, I don't think Warp Blast needs any alteration though, I need a new and different power to fill out the last slot.

>>52100097
This is my view on the whole Tau Cult side discussion, yeah.

>>52100177
Maybe something in this area? There's already a mutation I have planned that will let you make the Parasite of Mortrex.

>>52101090
So, dumbass newfag confirmed, got it.

Please leave the development to people who were actually around for when Tyranids were written by someone who knew what he was doing.

>>52101297
>Give warriors t5
Yeah this seems pretty much the consensus

>Make the tyranid prime actually scary for its price range
It'll be cheaper and more of a force multiplier for Warrior units.

>Lower synapse tax.
Dunno about this one, if synapse is also being made better.

>Increase bonuses from synapse (baseline 6+fnp?)
Catalyst has this covered the way I'm reworking psychic powers.

>Allow unit customization options again via biomorphs
Someone else brought up the point earlier that we don't really need the stat changes from biomorphs anymore, they should do more interesting things.

>Price drops for literally every MC, make Dina/trygon etc GCs
I've been going with the philosophy of buffing things to make them worth the points where I can rather than making them cheaper.

>>52101385
>It just doesn't fit the playstyle of an aggressive mobile swarm to have stationary defences like Void Shield generators.
late stage invasion features large important structures like cappilary towers.
Hiveguard fluff has them as purely defensive breeds for guarding these things, haveing bigger actually immobile versions is a small leap.

The knight thing is wrong just because tyranids already have their own similarly sized GCs. The fortifications rules aren't faction specific (for the most part) and are meant to be setting generic for everyones use, its not the same thing or WAAC. Though if tyranids did have their own specific fortifications you'd have a point.

>>52101385
Well customization/adaptation bonuses don't need to be strict stats. You could get creative with them, shifting gaunts into beasts or giving a psychic backlash upon death or something.

I always sort of viewed nids as swarm focused rather than these biological behemoths that can stand toe to toe with mechanical creations, I'd be cool with either buffing or cost reduction though, if I get 2 trygons for a daemon prince for example.

>>52101453
>late stage invasion features large important structures like cappilary towers.
But these aren't Fortifications, these are more like strategic objectives. The role they play in the Hive Fleet isn't something that would need to be represented by rules in the game outside of special scenarios.

>Though if tyranids did have their own specific fortifications you'd have a point.
Right, and they should, but I wouldn't list them as "Fortifications" exactly, the same way a Sporocyst or a deathworld jungle isn't, the same way Tyranids don't have any vehicles.

I can see your side of the argument and I'm not saying you're totally wrong I just disagree. Part of what makes a Faction interesting and diverse is the things it CAN'T do, and Tyranids should, by design, have the most of those.

>>52101479
>I always sort of viewed nids as swarm focused rather than these biological behemoths that can stand toe to toe with mechanical creations
They should be able to do both depending on how you want to play them, but if you make the MCs too cheap they are either overpowered and will get spammed to the detriment of the smaller creatures, or they aren't as scary as they should be given the fluff.

A Trygon for example is supposed to be the equivalent of a Baneblade super-heavy and dwarf even the larger MCs like Haruspexes, it should not cost half a Daemon Prince by any stretch.

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>>52101592
>Trygon being the equivalent of a super heavy
Wew lad, a boy can dream

They aren't even close to anything resembling that hahahahahaha

>>52101638
only since the 5e codex.
In epic and FWs 40k version it was one of the original Gargantuan Creatures and was a baneblade equivalent.

what about some form of gaunts that have both deep strike (fluffed as burrowing) and without number, with you being able to deep strike them back onto the board if they get wiped out

>>52101838
This. It's one of the things I am definitely fixing.

>>52101994
Gargoyles, or gaunts coming in through Trygon tunnels, is what you're looking for.

>>52102009
Trygon tunnels would need to remain permanent (and don't give a 'shit they could come up anywhere' type thing).
And I suppose Gargoyles can fill that roll but it doesn't have the same feel as an unending tide of little gribblies trying to do whatever they can to run at you and gnaw on your face.
Maybe I'm just being dumb about it.

>>52102151
>Trygon tunnels would need to remain permanent
I was pretty sure they did this already but if they don't, they will in my rules

>And I suppose Gargoyles can fill that roll but it doesn't have the same feel as an unending tide of little gribblies trying to do whatever they can to run at you and gnaw on your face.
Trust me I get what you're going for, don't worry I've definitely got it covered. The Deep Strike is the only part that's a little off.

>>52102151
there's ripper and ravenera for burrowing smaller nids.
Gaunts are fine for deepstrikeing between access to tyrannocytes and trygon tunnels.

>>52102180
I could've sworn you had to do it within like...the next turn or it closed up again. Just checked and I was wrong, woops.

>>52101385
>Maybe something in this area? There's already a mutation I have planned that will let you make the Parasite of Mortrex.

ok then. I just like the idea of a seething tide of the little buggers preceding a Tyranid advance

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>>52101385
I'm still fucking salty about Parasite of Mortrex.

PoM was the very first conversion I ever did, bought 3rd party wings, molded a wicked tail with greenstuff, added parasite glands, fashioned an elevated base...

Then 5mo later 6th dropped. ><

>>52102634
It was one of the few units in that dex that was fluffy and fun, so I guess it had to go.

>>52102664
Notably, Phil Kelly stated back after the release of the 4th ed codex that one of his ideas for a special character, before he decided to not include any because he felt they didn't fit Tyranids, was a "gravid Hive Tyrant that spawned Ripper Swarms", so it's likely that he was behind the design of the Parasite in 5th, which explains why it was actually fun and fluffy in a Codex mostly ruined by Cruddace's bad designs.

Give Tyranid HQ's personalities.

>>52103175
Fuck. Off.

>>52103209
Why? It's the only way to make them interesting and not boring as fuck. And it has lots of "Your Dudes" potential.

>>52103238
The people who can't understand the appeal of a Faction characterized by its lack of character are the boring ones. Tyranids already have a fuckton of Your Dudes potential, if you're not using it it's because you're not creative.

>>52103283
lmao what fucking appeal
even dawn of war 2 shows how fucking awful this shitty idea is of having no character

>>52103283
"Your dudes"? Are you mentally ill?No, the Tyranids fleets have nothing different about them but colour. Every fleet had and/or can adopt the traits of other fleets because at the end of the day all fleets are just one single boring entity

>>52103339
I'm really not interested in the opinions of clueless 4chan shitposters that haven't read the lore.

>>52103362
I have and I say Tyranids are so mindbogglingly boring that their fans must have something broken inside of them.

Also that's a non-argument and admission of defeat. Have a good day.

>>52103373
I wonder what it must be like to be so insecure about the fact that you don't understand the appeal of Tyranids that you need to aggressively declare they're boring to anyone who will listen to convince yourself you aren't just a fucking idiot.

>>52103390
And I don't understand how you can be so insecure as to not understand the meaning of "have a good day" and graciously accept your "L".

Go away, Tyranids are boring. No counter arguments were made. That side folded cowardly to the first sign of opposing opinion.

>>52103424
No counterarguments need to be made before you're not offering anything worth discussing. You are just another retard on the internet with bad taste and bad opinions and nothing to back them up. You have nothing to contribute so you spend your time tearing down and criticizing the efforts of others like a parasite, trying to win meaningless petty arguments so you can claim some kind of victory that no one actually gives a shit about.

Here's your (You). Don't spend it all in one place cuz it's the last one I have.

>>52103473
Again, with a non-argument. This Tyranid fanboy is utterly spineless.

>>52103362
>>52103473
>resorts to ad hominem
>"you are just another retard except me"
>"okay 4chan, please upvote my tyranid book"
I hope Nids will never get a fucking update and get squatted

Yes keep bumping the thread for me for maximum visibility, that's a good bitch.

>>52103533
Nobody cares if the thread gets bumped or not, dude. Except the guys who want to see firsthand evidence how tyranidfags and trips are asshats.

>>52103509
I know, right? He made a claim that Tyranids have an appeal and that they have a lot of "your dude" potential but when challenged on that he threw a tantrum and insulted the medium we all use.

The guy is a tosser.

Tyranid buff
>Pyrovores are synapse creatures (our team is still unsure about this change)
>self-explosion range increased by 8 feet
>enemy team is not affected by the explosion

>>52103562
tyranids have fuck-all "your dude" potential

I like them and they are my favorite army, but I hope GW revampes them or gives them the Newcrons treatment

and there is no point in posting serious fucking ideas to improve the army in a taiwanese image macro board

>>52103590
Exactly on the first part.

>>52103590
>tyranids have fuck-all "your dude" potential
sorta but no. They have heaps it. but more on the level of "your army". Functionally it allows for just as much creativity.

>>52103339
in the codex fluff the fleets are distinct in how they act and fight.

it just has no specific reflection in the rules. To do it you have to deliberately limit your choices.

>>52103565
Make synapse give nonsynapse creatures the old whfb unbreakable rule. They auto pass all ld tests.

Suddenly gaunt tarp it is even more useful when used right

>>52103792
Sounds lame

here is a better idea:
>if a synapse unit gets hit, all gaunt units need to pass a Id test.
>remove the certain amount of gaunt units who fail the test

>>52103819
So no advantage to playing nids right. Just advantage for playing against nids right

Crud pls

>>52103792
fearless already lets them autopass all the LD tests relevant to tarpitting.

I am almost certain the rogue anti-nid crowd is the same people as the powerlevel shitposters in /40kg/
Also bump

>>52101385
You do realize who created the swarmlord, right?

>>52105933
It truly is a mystery

>>52093061
>Tyranids should not have Warlord traits at all.
Maybe have something that play the same role rulewise but represent hivefleet evolutionary specificities or genetic adjustments made when the army was spawned for whatever reasons.

>>52061953
Maybe a without number formation that allow you to bring back your units with other adaptations than what they initially had?

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The idea for named tyranid characters is all nice and dandy for fluff purpose only. There's no need to make rules for them, because if what I get from Az is right, you can customize your HQ with weapon/bio-options and create your own Doom of Malantai or Swarmlord.

Yeah, your big bad bug HQ wouldn't be THE DoM or THE SL, but that's the point: Due to the nature how hive fleets operate, no single bug, excluding the norn queens perhaps, should be able to keep its identity between cycles of planet devouring and moving to new systems. After the absorbing of the planet's biomass is complete, all the expendable 'nids are devoured and recreated after the fleet gets to a new system.

If you fail to see the appeal of this kind of behavior, the you fail to see what makes 'nids so compelling for the people with the right amount of chromosomes.

>>52106659
Hell the red terror is basically a sergeant upgrade for a ravener squad desu

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>>52106722
That is essentially exactly what it is, in everything but it's name

>>52106827
>swallow hole
What a terrible rule.

>>52106979
Yeah is actually really shit, there's no real reason to do it either because most of the models you'd want to use it on are fucking immune

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>>52106827
It's 3e rules, for THE most notable nerf in the codex

Honest to god I want two things to come back. Parasite of Mortrex and the Red terror.

>>52107222
I want more things like them, notable tyranids like old one eye and the swarmlord are rad. I love how they're shown as creatures that the forces fighting the nids start to make rumors about.

>>52107367
Swarmy is specifically shown as a recognizable entity with a personality as opposed to an urban legend

>>52107842
If they simply said, swarmlord is the higher up version of a hive tyrant, a complicated and stronger version that is spawned when the hive fleet needs that extra oomph, then fine. But saying he is a hero character where there is only ever 1 in the whole galaxy and he is super special etc... is not niddy

>>52103712
>in the codex fluff the fleets are distinct in how they act and fight.

Not really because the Tyranids change their fighting style to suit their situation. This makes no fleet have anything unique for it.

Which makes the statement that nids are "Your Dudes" army laughable.

>>52108168
>I have no idea how nids actually work and I must shitpost

>>52108354
He is right though? Nids always change tactics to suit shit, lately though the fluff is just "throw gaunts"

>>52108541
Well consider that usually the most viable tactic is simply to overwhelm the enemy, Even the mightiest warrior can be felled by a hundred peasants. 'nids only seem to change tactics when the "Waves of bodies" approach doesn't work. That's when the fleets start to show their "affinities" some wanting to lean towards big tank-like dudes, others wanting to go with the infiltrate terror campaign weakening from within, and others like leviathan filling the skys for a full on aerial assualt.

That's always how I've interpret'd it as anyway.

>>52108168
Go back and read the approaches that different hive fleets took to invasion. Behemoth emphasized headlong charges designed to shatter the hardest point of a defense. Kraken gained power from encircling and making strong use of Genestealers. Leviathan placed extreme emphasis on cutting off entire swathes of space to contain its prey. Gorgon emphasized extreme biomorph modification between waves. Jormungandr was Nidzilla to an extreme, with a strong use of mycetic spores to drop them from orbit. Sure, they changed a bit between invasion, but each one had an overriding theme.

>>52059542
Give them autonomous rules and missions so that they better resemble their NPC status.

>>52103590

they're not supposed to have "your dudes" potential

they're the army you play when you don't wanna think about stories for your dudes and instead just bury people in chitin and talons and laugh whenever a broodlord charges a 20 strong squad of bloodletters, kills three of them and sweeps the entire squad after a bad demonic instability roll.

they're an army that you allow to develop a legend based on the bullshit things they pull off whenever the dice gods smile upon you, but they shouldn't be walking around with personality

>>52109019
They're also an army that allows you to fluff SEVERAL other armies alongside them
Gsc are the prime example but there are entire chapters and regiments developed to fight specific hive fleets, and of course everything the bugs have tried/have nommed
Arguably the faction with the largest variability of your dudes with a center theme of fighting for/against the fleet
Also they look cool as fuck and they're a conversion paradise

>>52105933
Robin Cruddace did. The man who ruined Tyranids.

>>52106659
>The idea for named tyranid characters is all nice and dandy for fluff purpose only. There's no need to make rules for them, because if what I get from Az is right, you can customize your HQ with weapon/bio-options and create your own Doom of Malantai or Swarmlord.
Yes precisely.

>>52106613
>Maybe have something that play the same role rulewise but represent hivefleet evolutionary specificities or genetic adjustments made when the army was spawned for whatever reasons.
I'm doing something very much like the Traitor Legion Detachments that give specific bonuses and restrictions based on which Progenitor Hive Fleet your army hails from.

The fleets are: Behemoth, Gorgon, Naga, Kraken, Jormungandr, Harbinger, Leviathan, Hydra, and Moloch.

>Maybe a without number formation that allow you to bring back your units with other adaptations than what they initially had?
On the timescale of a single game this feels like it's probably too fast. However when thinking about Hive Fleet traits/tactics, this was an idea that came up for Gorgon.

>>52110301
>On the timescale of a single game this feels like it's probably too fast. However when thinking about Hive Fleet traits/tactics, this was an idea that came up for Gorgon.
I'm inclined to agree in general. Tyranid addaption isn't fast enough to have a noticable effect in a single battle.
Though I think gorgons fluff suggest it does that. A simple rules way to so it would be to let a respawning unit swap 1 upgrade for another in the same "slot'. So for example toxinsac hormagaunts could come back with adrenal glands insteas.

>>52109019
>>52109446
sounds boring

>>52111628
4 (You)

>>52059542
-Lower the Cost of basically every unit
-Give them a Fuckton of options
-Remove named Characters

>>52111628
Then don't play Tyranids. Simple.

What would you say to Cruddace if you were locked in a broken elevator with him?

>>52112674
Tell him he's a dick and he should feel ashamed for ruining the games of thousands of fans for 8 fucking years.

>>52112674
Ask him what the fuck Tyranids ever did to him.

>>52059542
don't let cruddace make the next codex?
thats probably an extremely good one.

fix nids

Quick status update, Hive Mind Imperatives table looks to be done. Moving on to Predation table.

>>52112674
Well, probably something like
> Can you call for help, please?

>>52110301
Crud didn't actually create swarmy. Chambers did.

>>52115126
No he didn't you ignoramus, Chambers had been gone from Games Workshop for over a full edition before the Swarmlord fluff was ever written.

I'm surprised no one tries to bring up the "falls back towards synapse units if present" rule from 4th.

>>52114679
>Cruddace takes your phone
>he deletes all but 3 contacts
>he changes the language settings to mandarin

There ya go kid I helped make your codex phone better.

>>52115279
I considered it but I think it's actually too forgiving. My version of Instinctive Behaviour makes the Lurk types Fall Back towards cover and the Kill types (replacing Hunt and Feed) just continue being Fearless and charge forward at the closest enemy.

Bumping for posterity

>>52116644
Bumping for biomass

>>52103562
If Tyranids have no appeal, how come people play them you fucking retard?

Another status update before I take a break for awhile.

Psychic powers are basically wrapped at this point, although I'll probably revisit them during playtesting.

Warriors and Zoanthropes are about done.

Gotta figure out what the hell I want to do with the Maleceptor. I had an idea for it like... a year and a half ago, but I've forgotten what it was. It needs a definite role that's not just "Zoanthrope but bigger" or "Carnifex but psychic". Ideas are welcome.

>>52120005
maleceptor generates more warp charges than its mastery level. Like a psychic battery for nearby synapse.
Could give admantium will to nids in its synapse if they don't already get it some other way. Make it the mc you take to help dominate the psychic phase.

>>52112674
Call him a faggot.

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>>52120005

You thinking about making the Mawloc a gargantuan creature? How would it differ from trygon? Both units should have a role that sets them apart from each other, so that everyone don't just pick one over the other.

In the first codex where it was introduced tried something like this. Mawloc was sort of tyranid heavy artillery with it's burrowing strike, but being a lot less effective in CC. While this was a good idea on paper, it often felt like an overpriced basilisk.

>>52121677
He mentioned folding the Mawloc into Trygon/prime because three of the same unit is pretty stupid

>>52123068
>>52121677
Yeah, I'd like the Mawloc and Prime to be genofixed strain upgrades for the Trygon. Mawloc should be less effective in combat but able to Deep Strike directly into combat.

Only thing is Mawloc should probably also be cheaper and have less things so if anything the Trygon would be a genofixed upgrade for it instead of the other way around... maybe I'll do it that way, or maybe I'll have to make them separate entries.

>>52120079
Psychic batteries usually end up being must-takes and I don't want to do that with the Maleceptor. Zoanthropes are sort of filling that role now as they're just too much utility not to have a few sprinkled in your list.

>>52123922
A base platform with two(?) Genofixed upgrades, one makes the prime the other makes a Mawloc, base platform can take other crazy shits though?
Kind of tough, maybe to get weapon upgrades you have to sacrifice the deepstrike nuke special rule?

>>52124233
The issue is that the base Trygon has a bio-electric field, more attacks, higher Weapon Skill, better weaponry, and so on, so it would really make sense for the Mawloc to be the base platform. It just feels... backwards, as the Trygon has a much older pedigree as an iconic Epic-size nid unit. It would be sort of like letting you upgrade a Venomthrope into a Zoanthrope in terms of just feeling off.

I'll probably just make them separate entries, and the Prime will be a genofixed upgrade variant for the Trygon.

>>52124036
hmm. maybe focus it more on its unique power. Buff that a little, pwrhaps make it warp chage 1 and do D3 glancing hits so its easier to cast all 3 times and worth it.
maybe just up its invulnerable save to 4++ and it'll probably fine like that.
a useful option with something unique, but not a must take.