Fixing 'nids in 8th edition thought box

>>51907064
Nid players deserve to suffer.

>>51907084
*tau

>>51907112
Them too

>>51907084
Nids have suffered enough nerfs, they need a bone, or several, thrown to them.

I propose reducing the cost of bio-plasma and an overhaul of the warlord perks and psychic abilities. Not to mention the artifacts.

>>51907396
>Nids have suffered enough nerfs, they need a bone, or several, thrown to them.

No.

Nids should suck and Nid players should suffer. Nids don't belong in 40k and the sooner they're gone the better.

>>51907442
Show the Inquisitor on the doll where the biovore touched you.

File: loli drgon point.png (714KB, 850x780px) Image search: [Google]

714KB, 850x780px

Gib EW back please and thank you

>>51907064
Make gaunts 2pts/model with no cap to unit size #Fuckit

>>51907064
make them be able to ignore all rules about friendly fire.

File: 1465276881571.png (568KB, 586x738px) Image search: [Google]

568KB, 586x738px

Honestly? Aside from maybe a few points cost fixes, the only things Nids really NEED are better Psychic and Warlord tables.

As for what they could USE? Maleceptors and Pyrovores need a rework to be worth a damn, SOMETHING could stand to move out of Elites, not sure what. Some form of Instant Death mitigation would be nice to make Warriors and Raveners more viable again- I'd like to see maybe ID converted to double wounds on multiwound models while in Synapse- I'm pretty sure this was how it was in 4th/5th. A choice between a 2+ or 5++ or Wings would make Walkrants more common (and really they should be, I almost feel like Flyrants should be kicked out of HQ... No one else I can think of has non-transport HQ Fliers, and unless you're using an army of Formations you should have to take one footslogging HQ)

Changes I'd like to see, but don't think really would happen or matter that much... Well, if I was going to hardcore wishlist... A few callbacks to 4th/5th would be my priority. Hormagaunts being Beasts again would be nice. VC and HVC having a number of shots rather than a Blast would be excellent, you'd see them again instead of Stranglers/Brainleech Devs all the time. If they took a cue from the Miasma Cannon and gave it a split profile, even if it was only Assault 2 / Assault 1 Blast, that would be incentive to use it again, because Blast only makes it pants against anything you need the high S shots for.

Stuff people would want changed that I don't want to see changed/think needs to be fixed... The IB tables are not terrible. If Warriors were more viable, you'd also see more midsized Synapse keeping them from being problematic. In addition, moving some of the Ld 6 units to Ld 8, past the midpoint for a 2d6 roll, and some to 5, could add interest to some units as being more independant and others as being more in need of Synapse. Personal opinion, but the only Ld values the Tyranid list should have are 5, 8, and 10.

I don't know if I want EW back, but I would like to see warriors go S5/T5 and 2 wounds not 3 with a 5-10 ppm decrease. I would like to see some more uogrades come back, mainly the option to increase armor save since we do have some offensive upgrades, don't want to see a complete return to 3rd/4th but they definately need more. Pyrovores to get torrent. Return of living ammo but on less guns then before, bs 4 or 36" range on hive gaurd. Maaaybe a biomorph that allows for +1 ws or bs for the battle

>>51907112
>>51907084
Imperial* tbqhwyfamalam

File: IMG_0996.png (87KB, 287x326px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 287x326px

>>51907442

>>51907064
I've been playing around with the ideas of having multiple types of hive fleets that gain benefits and rules based on their amount, so we could accommodate old type synapse for massive invasion forces, current rules (with fixes) to a more of a occupation style fleet, etc.
And from that I've come up with some sort of frame work for a infestation type of Nids that builds up its strength.

This force would be giving Nids rules for mutating, working like a cross over between blood tithe and orders, something in lines of "Biomass rules"

>Units and models are given a specific point amount that they can start using on second turn, and gain one each turn regardless

>Units gain extra biomass points for killing units, or scoring an objective.

>At the beginning of each turn after the first Biomass can be used to mutate the unit. Either giving them upgrades, permanent and temporary stat increases, additional models as reinforcement or even allow units to mutate to another unit type (original points cost taken in consideration)

I have no idea how to balance it though, desu.

Warriors need to be made worthwhile, and they nids need overall better ways of getting into melee, where they excel.

File: 333919_md-Chibi, Deformed, Super, Tyranids.jpg (60KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 800x600px

>>51907064
They need to be fixed even on fluff-level. I want Nids to be a threat and danger for galaxy again. Right now the Nid's role in setting looks like this
>oh noez, Nids are coming! Let them eat a random planet or two and then kill them so we can fight with real enemies like - you know - Eldars or chaos shit

They should be able to assault from deepstrike somehow desu.

>>51907064
>Warriors get T5
>Remove feed from IB
>All MC get a 30-40 points drop
>Carnifex and haruspex get WS4
>Carnifex gets extra attack
>Hive Tyrant gets slight point drop, wings become more expensive
>Tyrant and fex get upgrades to 2+ save for points
>Lictors can only be snapshotted at on turn they arrive
>Pyrovore has torrent
>Gaunts may purchase Without Number
>Gaunts are beasts
>Hive Guard have symbiotic targeting so become BS4 when stationary
>Living ammo allows wound rerolls of 1 on fleshborer and devourer
.> Scything Talons allow rerolls of 1 in CC
>Genestealers get shrouded
>Psychic table gets a rework, maybe duel system like eldar get
>Many MC needs to be redone as they serve no purpose currently
>Warrior squads produce 1 warp charge but have no powers
>Rework Strangler and Cannon to make it competitive with Brainleech

File: 1389162959897.jpg (637KB, 1239x1053px) Image search: [Google]

637KB, 1239x1053px

I really love the range of models that the nids have been getting over the few years, but the current rules don't want me to run them on the field, unless it's against a friend.

>>51907442
>being this mad about fiction

>>51916327
>Either remove swarmlord or drop him by 100 points
>Give Old One eye a 40 points drop and give him FNP and upon death can roll a 4+ to revive with 1 wound
>Make warlord traits useful
>Tyrannofex cannon is ap2
>bring back lots of fun biomorphs
>Synapse creatures gain a 6+ fnp
>Exocrine is range 36

Sure theres more I missed, I have mentioned these in multiple threads

>>51912592
oh jayzus the cancer in those models :3

>>51907442
Thanks for the reminding me that both GW games and the the GW player base are shit.

>>51907442
>People should only enjoy things I enjoy

about biomorphs, all the assaulty nids should have the option to have assault grenade equivalent, like flesh-hooks and frag-spines

>>51916500 (checked)

>Have death-leaper become a synapse creature or get rid of its dependency of synapse all together. That's what it's like fluff wise anyways.
>add more offensive warp powers
>maliceptor needs some re-working in general
>pyrovore needs to be removed or have its CQC buffed up big time
>bio-plasma needs to be less expensive

My ideas anyways.

>>51907064
>everyone still bitching about nids being underpowered
>tfw have never beaten nids with my orks
What the fuck do you use to kill monstrous creatures with orks /tg/? I can't bring two warbosses and a squad of boys for every carnifex he brings. I2 is killing me here.

>>51907064

Split Psychic Powers into 2 trees: Adaption (buffs/summons) and consumption (witchfires/debuffs)
Decurion that gives WoN to all of the shitty bits and allows return via Outflank
Shadow is linked to Synapse range and incurs a Ld penalty along with -1 to harness WC
'Nid melee weapons are dual function; provide a static buff to the model, and another when primaried
> Rending Claws are Rending buff, AP3 when wielded, AP2 when dual
> ScyTals are +1WS buff, Reroll 1's when wielded, PE when dual

Best MCs in the game on a value-for-pts perspective
More focus on intra-unit synergy, combining debuffs and generally feeling alien
ObSec comes from Synapse rather than Troops
Synapse has flavours and units can choose different types (FC, Crusader, MtC etc.)
Army theme should be overwhelming attack from every angle. Should feel alien to wield and a sense of ruthlessness/attrition

Basically make the army feel like Tyranids before you get into the nitty-gritty of points, because it's a fucking trainwreck from top to bottom

>>51907064
Give every model this special rule:
>Adaptive Behaviors
>At deployment, the Tyranid player may improve a single stat on each of their models by one. They can, alternative, add 12" to the range of one gun, add +1 S to one weapon, or improve the AP of one weapon by 1

>>51907442
>You can't enjoy bugs in this game about intergalactic war with elves and demons

>>51907064
Make Bio Plasma a tad cheaper, make gaunts a bit cheaper and remove the limit on their numbers and come up with a way for either gaunts, or even rippers to be more easily deployed to tarpit.
And make Old One Eye cheaper.

Between these, 'nids can now better occupy the shootiest squad or two the other guy has, can better deathball occupied squads, and gets at least one carnifex that won't just melt and thus actually works as a distraction.

>>51919759
It's hard to complain about a shitty dex when you have a shittier dex

But the answer is to shoot them. Mob them with boys to distract parts of the field you need to hold, as there's no carnifex that can go throu 30 boys in 5 turns if they try, and then use your lootaz to obliterate other ones. Carnifex have no invulnerable saves and bare access to cover saves, so anything that goes through 3+ armor and has a decent strength can take them down pretty easily.

>>51907442
And this is why I don't play anymore.

>>51907442
That's dumb. You're dumb.

>>51907064
nurf nids, buff guard

>>51919328
If I recall, though I could be mistaken, pyrovores have the same melee stats as guardsmen.

>>51907064
I think I posted this last time, but here we go:

When the time comes for the next Gathering Storm book the story should go as follows:

After a major psychic/warp related effect in the 40k universe, ala Slaanesh's death, Emperor's Death, the Eye of Terror expanding, etc, the shock waves of the event travel through the warp, horrifically hurting and killing psykers across the galaxy. However, in the wake of the psychic blast, the Hive Mind of the Tyranids is affected the worst, as the overwhelming power courses crashes through the amalgamation of creatures. In the outcome, the Hive Mind survives, but splintered, as the turbulent state of the galaxy forces the separated Hive Mind from coalescing into one mind, leaving the individual Hive Fleets to form their own Fleet Minds. Although the general pattern of the Tyranids remain the same, the Extra-galactic Tyranids are caught in a Tyranid-Civil war, as the Fleets wage war against one another to become the Alpha-Hive mind

The Inter-galactic Tyranids must survive in the 40k Universe against all odds, even as the galaxy implodes all around them. The Triumvirate is a Revamped release of the Swarmlord, who is the only true Sentient Tyranid made by the prior hive mind, and thus,the only free agent among the Hive Minds. IT's goal is reunite the Hive Mind in its prior state, so as to regain its immortality. The Next agent is Old One Eye, whose rapid growth and mutation has lead to him developing a higher intelligence. It's goal is to now reach a evolutionary peak, and become utterly immortal. The final member is a female Genestealer Magus, who was born a Alpha level psyker. Utilizing the Genestealer cults natural hivemind, she has used their overall psyker power to create a ever expanding Genestealer hive mind across hundreds of planets.

Their goal is to capture a primarch, and than use their soul as the basis of a brand New Tyranid Hive mind, as a way to forcefully merge Tyranids and Mankind into one vile fusion.

>>51921743
cont.


Each of the Triumvirate would give them a major bonus, and the book overall would allow Tyranids to have a plethora of new rules. New rules would include a revamp of the Synapse system and removal of the Behavior system, as the Mini-Hive minds would allow better control over the Species as a whole. Thus, they only get bonuses when in Synapse, and does not suffer any penalties outside of the Synapse.

All Tyranids within Synapse range gain a base +2ld, a extra attack, and FNP. There would also be rules to represent each of the major hive fleets.

Each of the Triumvirate would add special rules to the over all force, and give special rules to units within Synapse.

The Swarmlord would gain a 2+ save, a 4++ Invulnerable out of combat, and a 2++ In combat. He would gain 2 WS, 4 Wounds and fleet, along with being ML5. All units within Synapse gain 1 WS, Hatred(Everything), and a additional Attack.

Ol' One Eye gives everything in Synapse IWND, and Regeneration, and may use Ol' One Eye's LD for any test. All Synapse creatures have EW as well.

The Genestealer Magus would give all creatures in her detachment the Genestealer Ambush rule, along with allowing Genestealer Cults to be used as Battle Brothers.

File: tmp_16274-1486220488593-738623268.png (2MB, 1600x875px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1600x875px

>Fix leaping to act like it used to.
>Have synapse grant EW like it used to OR give easier access to invulnerable saves.
>More useful psychic powers.
>Better warlord traits.
>Points reduction on bio-plasma and some units like fexes.
>Free up some things from the elite slot.
>If the AP rules for vehicle damage remain make AV weapons like Venom cannons ap2.

I think that would be a start to a more competitive and balanced bug army.

>>51907442
Why do you hate my friendly space-ticks anon? all they want is hugs...

>>51907064
>Synapse becomes a leader-focused buff bubble on any unit that has the Synapse special rule. For example, Warriors give +1 S, Zoanthropes give 4+/5++ invul saves, Hive Tyrants give Eternal Warrior, etc. This encourages the horde to cluster together and give each other their buffs, the same way the currently everyone hides in the Venomthrope bubble

>This gives customization and necessary boons, at the cost of needing to take more of the expensive units. Taking apart the Tyranid leadership makes the entire army weaker, but at the same time trying to take the entire horde at once results in massively powerful swarms of beasts.

>Instead of just making half of the units useless and making a random chance of being retarded

>>51907442
He's right you know. Tyranids are a totally pointless and functionally useless faction in 40k. All they serve is to present a enemy and alternate "Dooms day" to chaos, and have little to no reason to exist, aside to be either a Kill everything button or pointless bullet fodder. Anybody who thinks Tyranids will ever amount to anything 40k is kidding themselves.

>>51921743
>Their goal is to capture a primarch, and than use their soul as the basis of a brand New Tyranid Hive mind, as a way to forcefully merge Tyranids and Mankind into one vile fusion.

man, we really don't need fucking retarded starcraft shit in 40k, especially since the Zerg aren't just Tyranids, but also use a lot of Chaos inspiration (Infested Marines are styled after a Chaos Spawn art and the Zerg were attracted to psionic types specifically)

>>51922019
>same could be said about the orks
>and the eldar
>dark eldar
>necrons
>tau
A lot of the factions are pointless and are inconsequential to the fluff you moron

>>51921994
>grouping everyone together for buffs

Shit that's neat. Faggots can't complain because grouping up can be exploited with artillery pie plates

>>51922120
Nah. The Tyranids, unlike all of the factions you just mention, have no history or past in the 40k setting. The only one of those that MIGHT be disposable is the Dark Eldar and Tau, but even than, they play a role in many parts of the fluff.

>The Orks not only almost killed the Emperor on Ullanor, and help Horus become Warmaster, but also led to the War of The Beast, which officially set the Imperium on its downwards spiral. They also help keep the setting in its state of Eternal war.

>The Eldar and the Necrons helped contribute to the War in Heaven, which officially set the entire setting into its down spiral. Without each other, there would be no 40k.

>Dark Eldar help represent how far the Eldar have fallen, and give us a taste of the Pre-Fall eldar's horrifying excess. But other than that, there's no reason for them, aside from giving characters like Vulcan, friend of all, a fault, or helping remove Jaghati.

>Tau help give a parallel to the existence of the Imperium, as a vibrant and living civilization, compared to the crushing brutality and stagnating Empire. Without them, the Imperium would have no counter point, nor would they have a actual rival Empire.

To put it simply, most Factions in 40k have SOME reason to be in 40k, and add to the narrative. But Tyranids are simply add-ons to the setting, They have no history, no character or personality, and add nothing to the Narrative aside from another OVER-WHELMING DOOM THAT WILL EAT EVERYTHING A BLOOG-A-BLOOG, NUTHIN PERSONAL BIOMASS-SAN.

>>51922019
the represent an end game that would require the forces of the 40k universe to not be dickbags to each other in order to conquer.

I mean it's not going to happen, because grimdark and 40k's plot never moving forward. But that's pretty much what nids are from a narrative standpoint.

>>51921743
>>51921889
No.

Stop trying to break up the fucking Hive Mind. What makes the Tyranids unique in 40k is that they are the only 100% unified faction. They don't have infighting, they don't have disagreements, just one unified vision. Take that away and they're just smarter Orks.

The rules are fine though. I would give the Swarmlord back the ability to make opponents re-roll successful invul saves.

>>51922331
wern't they retconed as the origin of the genestealers?

Havn't they fucked the history of the 40k universe over and over?

>>51922355
They have infighting, it's just for different reasons. A hive fleet can and will devour another hive-fleet for it's enhancements. At least thats what i get from the lore.

As a Nid player, i support having the fleets have different effects, it's be nice to see what they evolved and learned as a fleet. Especially with isolated ones cutoff from the warp, that'd be neat.

>>51922355
But they're not. Tyranid Hive Fleets are pretty much already divided, with each other fleet looking out for themselves, with little to no actual co-operation. This would give them a reason for them to actually fight, and have different bio-adaptions, as although each Fleet is basically the same Nids that eat everything, each fleet is now OFFICIALLY out for themselves.

Plus, it adds a bit of a actual threat to the Nids, while also extending the clock to midnight by a bit, as the Nids now have to wait until one Hive Fleet emerges victorious to consume the Galaxy, and that could either take forever, or very quickly.

Splintering the Hive Mind into a bunch of Tendrils doesn't really stop the idea of a bunch of invading bugs hell-bent on eating everything, and even then, their main purpose in my idea is to basically re-create the Hive Mind, unifying the Hive Fleets once more, with the added bonus of single handedly taking over all of humanity, making them either a valuable new Slave Race, or free food.

>>51922386
That is true, but at this point, Genestealers are practically a better overall faction than the Tyranids themselves. But notice how they had to actually retcon a pre-existing faction into being the vassals of the Tyranids, simply for them to exist. And the Genestealers could easily function as independent faction without the Tyranids.

>>51922051
Perhaps their goal isn't to fuse Mankind into the Tyranids, but it is beneficial in the short term, and long term, to have all of Mankind under the control of the Tyranids. It would allow the Hive Fleets in the galaxy to have access to entire planets worth of Armies, or Biomass, and would be a great boon in the reconquering of the Extra-Galactic fleets.

>>51922422
>>51922452
Hive Fleets only fight each other if there are no other threats around, and that is more like a wargame. The Hive Mind is just testing which biomorphs are superior.

But when there are other threats? They work together. Kraken and Leviathan worked together at Valedor because they had Eldar to fight.

>>51907064
Thanks OP, I was missing this one.

>>51909009
My dudes' planet got blown up.

>>51922535
>in fighting for different reasons you say? I best state that those reasons exist and what they are.

Just because they cooperate when something angry wants to ruin their day doesn't mean that they don't have in fighting. In fact i'm pretty sure nids represent what happens when you take your head out of your ass and work together with something you'd rather kill. They just have a different way of viewing 'something i want to kill' have their own, unique, reasons for killing each other. It's no better than orc warband fighting each other. They just do it for giggles, nids do it for SCIENCE!

>>51922501
Just like IG are separate from marines. And yep, that they did, that's how retconing works. But that's the lore now, complaining about what once was is counter productive to narrative development and probably why 40k writers want to make it go nowhere.

File: 1300935131058.png (54KB, 553x759px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 553x759px

>>51921743
>>51921889

>make the Nids like muh Zerg.
Fuck no.

File: 1436074776121.jpg (20KB, 258x245px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 258x245px

>>51907064
>get invaded
>ask my scouts who is attacking us
>Tyranids

>laugh my fucking ass off

>>51919759
You don't need to kill them always, a power klaw will almost always ripa wound off any MC. On top of that ork boyz have higher WS than almost all the MC, charge a carnifex with like 20 boyz and they'll tarpit him most of the game and probably kill him

>>51919759
>DISTRACTION CARNIFEX WORKING AT FULL CAPACITY

>>51920122
Rending claws being AP3 and Talons being +1 WS feels a bit OP

Claws are kinda ok as they are although with stuff like warriors they should really be a free upgrade if you are dropping devourer for them. Scything talons needs the +1 re rolls back because that was fun

>>51921743
>>51921889
Ok first off the swarmlord has WS9 so how would he gain 2 WS. Also 2++ cc save? ML5? NO... Maybe ML4 but no.

ALL nids in synapse get FNP and Fearless and an extra attack? I play nids but fuck off that's ridiculous, gives the synapse creatures a 6+ fnp, its not major but its a little bit to help out

NOW as far as the story goes, you don't understand nids do you? They aren't meant to be some superhero aliens. I don't want different hive fleets with different leaders, this sounds utterly disgusting and shit. There is no individuals in the fleet, they are all part of the same mind. You disgust me

>>51922452
This dude>>51922535
Is right, Tyranids are a unified force, each hive fleet is fighting its own war and evolving its own biomorphs, But upon meeting they do intermingle because theyre the same mind. The whole point of one of the campaigns was the Eldar stopping Kraken and Levivathan meeting because they would mix and grow even stronger. They only ever fight when there is no prey around to test their biomorphs and see who the superior fleet is, the weaker one gets absorbed, and apparently NO biomass is lost in the process... somehow (this was just done to give nid players a fluffly reason to fight eachother)

>>51925857
As a nid player myself, i'd have to disagree.

Mostly because minds like the Old One Eye are floating through the hivemind.

The making each fleet unique, or at least slightly different, makes sense lore wise too. each fleet is going to have different experiences and they don't always sync up with the hivemind right away (this again, is stated in the lore) so it would make sense that the nids that had to fight giant ass shit would be better at it, and probably have an easier time using giant ass shit.

This doesn't make them super hero aliens, it expresses what they happen to be to a T. Though there is no indivualism, each member is crafted for a purpose, and often is specialized to that purpose.

So really, story wise, you havn't grasped that though it's a hive-mind, it has different wheels and gears for different situations, like old one eye, and that means at least SOME individualism carries over, or is created, or just kinda shows up because. It'd be nice to see this expressed in a way that makes Nids not only more interesting to play, but more interesting to read about.

>>51925924
>Mostly because minds like the Old One Eye are floating through the hivemind
What? What are you on about? All tyranids are the hivemind

Having each hivefleet provide slightly different bonuses like chapter tactics or traitor legions do, fine with that since each fleet has been doing its own thing for decades it will have evolved differently.
But they shouldn't be splintered or have proper individual characters. The only reason I accept the swarmlord is because I just imagine him as a higher up hive tyrant as opposed to the individual character they try representing him as

>>51925941
>All tyranids are the hivemind
yup and old one eye happens to be a recurring mutation with it's own set of experiences that it remembers. That's in the fluff dude, or at least implied.

I think of the entire fleet like a fuck off big computer, each nid type a different program. Old one Eye is that one self updating program that if you run two instances of it, it fucking crashes (as in the nids just don't do it, the crashing if for the analogy). So even though they are all part of the same system, take from the same resources and have no problems communicating with each other, Unique programs (like one eye and Swardlord)

An i agree with you, the different fleets should have different bonuses, not be splintered or have... proper individuals, characters yes (old one eye is the example again) but those characters are driven by the hivemind and are not individual from it.

Hopefully that all makes sense, i'm at work and pretty fucking tweeked.

>>51922019
> All they serve is to present a enemy and alternate "Dooms day" to chaos
Not at all like the Orks, right? Or the Necrons? I mean Tau are too young, and Eldar are dying out, even in Commoragh, so we know they won't amount to anything. I mean there should really only be two factions, the Imperials and Chaos. Actually Why even bother with guard? All they serve is pointless bullet fodder until the Space marines or Inquisition show up right? Same goes for traitor guard I suppose. So no one should play anything except for marines, chaos marines, daemons, and the inquisition.

Actually fuck that. I mean all the marines or the inquisitiondo is serve as a glimmer of quickly fading hope. We know they won't amount to anything cause ultimately chaos is just gonna win because its grimdark. Anyone not playing chaos marines or daemons is kidding themselves.

Y'know what? Chaos Marines are just the puppets of the dark gods. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just kidding themselves. Daemons are the only real faction anyone should ever play.

I mean its not like 40k is game or a hobby, where people have different play style or aesthetic tastes. Playing anything other than daemons is pointless.

>>51926187
This. I think tau stick out in the setting a bit and I genuinely find them boring and inconsequential... but I don't want them removed? They add variety and alternate choices for players

>>51926209
>b-b-b-b-but i don't liek them so they are useless and need to be removed! they also don't deserve (needed, oh god needed) buffs because waaaaaaaaaa

which is essentially the arguments being made against them.

>>51926305
I am referring to nids, btw. and it's sarcasm in case anyone missed it.

I'm looking at you Steve.

>>51907064
They evolve tactics

>>51926367
They have tactics, it's just focused on the whole 'overwhelm and consume' trope.

i feel that making that easier for a nid army (balanced of course) would honestly fix them. That doesn't mean mindlessness, but instead a focus on re-population and meat wall.

at least that's how i feel.

>>51926516
What they need is to get on that summoning train daemons and GSC have going on. Summoning perfectly represents the Tyranid ability to overwhelm. Hell, I'm tempted to say they should be better at summoning than the other two.

If they get buffed, I want the synapse mechanic to stay. I feel like that's a party of their identity that shouldn't be lost.

However, it shouldn't be one dice roll for either a permanent debuff/benefit. It should be a turn by turn basis or similar.

>>51925992
Characters coould simply be fluffled as specialist variants, something hyper-optimsed. While some races build jack of all trades, tyranids hyper-specialise with their uniques.

>>51922331
>Catachan devil
>Genestealer
>Kraken
>Brain leaf

Nids aint not never been to da galaxy mang

Making some good new rules is probably too hard for GW.

Put a new coat of paint on nids 4e and add some new units.

>>51920122
> Rending Claws are Rending buff, AP3 when wielded, AP2 when dual
Nah, keep them as is, but:
Two sets = Rending on 5+


> ScyTals are +1WS buff, Reroll 1's when wielded, PE when dual
No, take them back to old 5e
1 set = reroll 1's, 2 sets = reroll all

Make Bone swords stay the same,
But two sets = AP2 instead of AP3

Sweeping point reduction for their melee Weapons tho.
5 pts for Rending Claws
10pts for Bone swords

Makes 20pts for at initiative AP2 with ID on 6s. Vs Power Fists at I1 Sx2 AP2 at 25pts

>>51907442
fuck off

File: Superior 3rd ed Behaviour.jpg (142KB, 358x594px) Image search: [Google]

142KB, 358x594px

>>51907064
First of all bring this shit back and change "Attack!"'s effect to Rage Special rule

>>51921156
How does Cruddace keep finding these threads?

>>51921412
They don't, but it's not like they can do anything anyways.

>>51925617
>It's ok, we didn't need our 1st company anyways

>>51907064
If anybody wants to read it, go ahead. Suggestions are really helpful


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ukYBuSEkOIMymf16sjNYogvsMPunjgiQdVSRpuIEFHQ/edit?usp=sharing

>>51907064
Alright, fuck it.

I've faffed around long enough.

You wanna know how to fix nids? I'll post half a damn Codex. Give me 72 hours.

Feel free to screenshot.

>>51932414
Shameless bump

I think we should increase the point cost on carnifexes. Maybe take away some of their biomorphs so that players understand better what GW wants them to do with the units. We should also make it so that any enemy within 12" of a lictor gets a free snap shot when the lictor enters play. That'll tone down its formidable ambush abilities.

Oh, we should also finally do away with any advantages provided by synapse. From now on, all units rely on their own Ld for everything. Falling of out synapse kills a unit outright. The faction is OP against my Guardsman infantry blobs anyway, so the game will be a lot more fun if we use synapse to balance them out a little.

File: 1440023585304.png (158KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 200x200px

>>51932371
>implying my 1st company didn't oneshot them
>implying we all didn't start laughing at the victim who actually got killed by fucking Nids

Tyranids should be scrapped and added to AoS.

That's where they belong.

>>51920729
THIS IS SERIOUS TYRONE ONLY SERIOUS FACTIONS

>>51907521
as a formation with some kind of drawback, sure

otherwise you're just asking assholes to turn up with 9001 gaunts and at that point you really need to be enforcing movement trays

>>51909649
chapter tactics is a good idea for nids, guard, sisters, orks

>>51912418
some kind of drop cyst

>>51912592
they ate the eastern fringe of the galaxy and now they're back for more, dumbass

>>51916327
i like your lictor ideas but i can't subscribe to your FNP synapse newsletter in good conscience

>>51916864
no

give them unit-size based bonuses - like ignoring charge penalties/difficult terrain at 50%+ of starting swarm, MTC for monstas that are intended for that role

>>51919759
you're using Orks as a melee army, but they're actually an assault gunline with pieplates galore to offer

BS don't matter when you're throwing shit on the floor

>>51920335
yeah if it's a single choice army-wide

nay if it's squad-level

>>51920848
feels like a lot of people's gaunt problems would be answered by changing them to Beasts if they have no gun

>>51934651
Skaven are already in AoS

>>51907950

I like this line of thinking, it's measured and logical rather than the usual "buff everything" wishlisting you'd expect to see in a thread like this.

Tyrants need to be able to choose between a 2up save+EW or wings.

I think Warriors should lose a wound and go up to T5.

Pyrovores need torrent and str6 ap4 no cover on their main weapons, OR str3 ap3 would be interesting.

>t5 warriors
>implying good things happen
>ever

>>51907442
>We need to make room for another Space Mehrunes chapter

Bumb

>>51937041
>>51937153
I ran the math on that, and got some odd results. While T5 W2 Warriors are tougher against any strength value between 3-7, They got weaker against S2 bizarrely, as well as S8-10. Despite getting tougher, any strength that would wound T4-5 on the same roll becomes stronger. This can't really be avoided though, so it's necessary to make them somewhat useable. I propose switching to T5 W2 along with a 3+ armor save.

>>51930666
I'll never understand why Instant Death for a Tyrant is worth 15 pts.

>>51940308
>as well as S8-10
You're not factoring in instant death, your numbers are off.

Toughness 5 W2 is weaker than T4 W3 versus Strength 2 and 7.

It's better vs S 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 9, and the same vs 10.

So basically autocannons and flechette pistols are better. I think this is a fair trade-off for surviving krak missiles and lascannons and being tougher vs general small arms fire.

Then there's Poison, which is another discussion entirely, but I think Tyranids should straight up have a special rule that mitigates that if we're being fluffy (they did in 2e after all).

>>51940500
Good point, sorry I missed those. We can agree on the 3+ armor save though, right?

>>51940755
Standard? I would say no. Maybe as an upgrade.

My view is that Warriors should simply be able to join units of Gaunts to Look Out Sir wounds off onto them.

OK listen dickheads, all you have to do to fix nids is two things

>4e codex
>Actual anti tank weapons

Boom that it, done.

>>51940953
The 4e Codex is too dated now to slot into the modern 40k. It was already starting to decline before the first Cruddex came out and ruined everything. Since then there have been loads of major changes to the way the game functions, a whole new psychic phase, Formations, Flying Monstrous Creatures, superheavies, a ton of new models... at best a few good ideas can be spiritually carried over from 4th, but it needs a complete modernized rework.

As I'll show you.

File: Untitled.png (1MB, 701x707px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 701x707px

>>51907064
Give them formations similar to pic related. Fighting Tyranids should feel like you're always on the verge of being overwhelmed.

>>51937041
>I like this line of thinking, it's measured and logical rather than the usual "buff everything" wishlisting you'd expect to see in a thread like this.

Agreed, we need more thinking like this.

>>51912592
You mean like orks?

>>51925924
They aren't really characters as they are alien versions of moby dick and monstro.

Ancient monsters of legend who occassionally are reprinted by the swarm because they are useful. One eye is just a carnifex model it doesnt recognize old grudges.

>>51907950
I think it's less that the Instinctive Behavior tables are absolute crap and more that they just complicate things. The codex worked much better in previous editions where there was just one table, if any. Other than that, your comment's on the money.

>>51942293
It's a symptom of the state of affairs in 40k right now. Tables upon tables and rolls after rolls. Hopefully 8th edition simplifies a lot of it.

>>51942345
It kinda stands to reason that the only army that should run on some random elements ought to be Daemons, then sort of by Chaos Marines.

>>51907442
Fuck off mate, go suck a fucking cock cuck-boy, kys, ect.

>>51933449
Status update.

I finished formatting the unit datasheet template and organized all of my notes, images, scattered references and files from the last 5 years of abandoned nid fandex projects. I didn't realize how insane my archive was; I have every Tyranid related rule supplement and article in 40k history, including the ones from Epic 40k, the 3rd ed main rulebook, the rules from Chapter Approved, all the relevant White Dwarf articles, everything from Battlefleet Gothic, as well as most of the Black Library novels and short stories, all of Sherman Bishops fluff, even the articles pulled off of GW's website from around the release of the 4th edition dex using the wayback machine.

Time to get started making something useful out of all this I guess.

>>51943323
I'm rooting for you, Azazel

>>51942546
Agreed.

>>51932371
Does anyone ever mention in fluff how losing 1st company affected anything? It feels like they just used the 1st company in place of bunch of noname planets to give Nids something to call a victory(still lost though)

>>51943764
Yeah, not really.

>>51907064
Have their units cost half their normal amount to encourage swarm tactics.

I think right now until a new codex or campaign supplement comes out would be new tyranid psychic powers trees instead of the sub-par one in the codex. I'm not really a nid player but I've always liked them. So far this is what I've come up with :

>Adapt Tree : Buffs and what not to help simulate the Tyranids ability to rapidly evolve and overcome their enemies.


>Consume Tree : General witchfires and debuffs.

>Profilerate : Summoning type stuff for the nids. All the other fractions get it, Nid should too. if even a small tendril has reached your world you'd better believe theres going to be billions upon billions of them up in your face.

What do you guys think? I bet we could really expand on this idea pretty easily with some really interest stuff.

>>51944090
these sound good to me. and would be in line with the kind of updates books have been getting lately

you could also make psykers a little more distinct in what they get.
Like zoanthropes and tervigons only get consume and adapt respectively. Maleceptor gets botg and tyrants/swarmlord get all 3.

>>51907950
>As for what they could USE? Maleceptors and Pyrovores need a rework to be worth a damn, SOMETHING could stand to move out of Elites, not sure what. Some form of Instant Death mitigation would be nice to make Warriors and Raveners more viable again- I'd like to see maybe ID converted to double wounds on multiwound models while in Synapse- I'm pretty sure this was how it was in 4th/5th

Maleceptor I'd go with move to 4++ lesser warp sheild and either have it generate more warp charges or know more powers without just straight up upping its ML.
pyrovores get torrent and always explode on death, plus a little discount. They'd stand to be decent counter assault or terrain clearing then.

as for moving stuff out of elites maybe give nids a brood swarm choice that functions like an IG platoon. With warriors as the Command squad, gaunts as the basic squads and hiveguard, venomthropes, pyrovores and biovores as the special/heavy weapon teams.


in 4e synapse just granted EW.
it might little much now. but reduced to double wounds ( or D3 wounds I've seen suggested before) seems fair.

>>51907064
I haven't played since 6th edition when the Nids went from being the most modular army in the game to the strictest in terms of unit upgrades. Are they still?

>>51944382
they're stricter than the 4e book.
but still a little more modular than most.

>>51944539
>but still a little more modular than most.
Not even close. They've lost upgrades and options every edition since 4th. They're completely in the shitter right now.

>>51944644
i meant more than most other factions.
yeah we've lost options but we still generally have a wider variety of choice relative to other codexs.

>>51944754
How many other Codexes have you read, exactly?

>>51944794
all of them. compared to my ig or chaos in particular i can specialize my nid units to a much greater degree.

Posting my questions here. It seems a bit more fitting.

Hi all. I'm coming back to the game after a long break and dusting off my Tyranids. Funnily enough, all my friends who are getting into it as well have mysteriously choosing to create tau gunlines rather than want to do anything else. Nothing to do with the fact I have an army of close combat monsters and the rumours Tau are top of the range, ha.

Still, can any Tyranid player please give me advice on how to deal with gunlines? I'm currently musing over things like...

A flyrant with brainleech devourers, to swoop in, shred their troops then beat itself stupid off any tanks.

A Tyrranocyte pod to drop in the middle of them. Have it shoot up troops, then unleash say, a carnifex to charge into tanks and smash them.

A Lictor to appear wherever I want, then have it use it's ability to make the Mawloc pop up wherever I want. Mawloc will do it's damage, twice if needed, then dig back into the ground, to pop up again elsewhere, rather than pop up and start chasing people...or would I be better with a Trygon that will pop up, do no damage, but then chase folk around?

Also, I love to make up stories and fluff for the games we play. Name captains, give them some history and personality, what they do in their spare time etc. I'm struggling to try and bring a bit more character to the Great Devourer. Can anyone advise please?

>>51907064
Ho thanks, I was looking for this gif

>>51947278
Depending on when you quit, your army has been treated like garbage. And the top 4 armies have been cemented there. There alot more OP bullshit than their used to be, and less ways to tackle it

>>51947651
Well that's not good. Do any of my suggestions carry any weight? Or will I be doomed to be somebody elses Starship Troopers fantasy?

>>51947812
Unfortunately I can't answer that very well. I quit around 2014-2015. And that's as a Tau player for just under a decade. I haven't heard much that would help improve the scene since I left

>>51947812
Everything you listed can be effective, but only if it survives. The bad news is that what you listed is about the only effective method we have, and even that's not very reliable.

>>51943323
Bumping for status update

>>51949489
Working on the Hive Tyrant right now.

I've got a spreadsheet collating all of the stats from every iteration, from 2e through current, and comparing it to equivalent things like the Daemon Prince, with the new Genestealer Patriarch as my current model for modern meta power level/points ratio.

Trying to roughly eyeball a good baseline for stats to cost before I factor in the new special rules. I'll probably have to do another pass at the end once I've got the whole army in first draft to figure out what area the Tyrant can fill in gaps with its unique special rule*.

*One of the goals with this Codex is for almost every single unit to have at least one unique special rule unto itself in the same vein as the Eldar Codex. I've got a few ideas for what the Tyrant will do and I'll narrow them down by getting the rest of the units done later, then adjust price accordingly.

One thing I'm waffling back and forth on is whether to give it a 5++ or 6++ invuln save. I've settled on going with an invuln rather than Feel No Pain as its primary defense against heavy weaponry because an invuln doesn't stack with Jink which means it buffs walkrants closer to the flyrant ceiling without also raising flyrants by the same power margin.

6++ has precedent in the Warp Field from 4th edition while 5++ has precedent in the Psychic Barrier special rule the Maleceptor has. Decisions, decisions.

>>51949762
5++ sounds better. By the time you're down to having to make a 6++, you're kind of already screwed.

>>51949818
They're also getting It Will Not Die base, as well as access to a 2+ save upgrade, +1 Toughness upgrade, AND Tyrant Guard with Feel No Pain base and auto-look out sir, so it might be overkill to also strap a 5++ on there.

Of course if you take all these upgrades + Guards you're paying a significant increase in points for an expensive footslogging deathstar (Flyrants cannot take the armour or toughness upgrades and obviously can't have TGuard), so it better be tough as nails.

I think I'll settle for 6++ for now if only because there's probably going to be psychic powers and/or synapse abilities that grant feel no pain, and then dual-boneswords can grant a 5++ in melee which won't be redundant.

>>51950086
>and auto-look out sir,

They basically already have this?

No need for +1 toughness at all, they are already T6, the 2+ upgrade though I want back badly, Also IWND base seems... random and odd?

>>51935949
>FNP synapse newsletter in good conscience
My suggestion was giving synapse creatures (not all creatures IN synape) a 6+ FNP

>>51940500
This is fine
>>51940755
3+ on warriors no. I love my warriors but 3+ is too sexy for them. Leave them at T5 W2
>>51941661
This
>>51943966
Ridiculous
>>51944090
Sounds fine, either give us a couple more tables or a dual table like elder
>>51947278
Gunlines are a pain in the ass, ive always swooped 2 flyrants behind their lines and started shooting shit up, it gets a LOT of attention. Had some surprising luck with well placed stealer squads too.

>>51952680
>Also IWND base seems... random and odd?
Based off of the Tyranids from Hive War. Carnifexes and Hive Tyrants (and a bunch of the bigger bugs too) had regeneration stock back then.

Also the Shield of Baal: Deathstorm set had some special rules thrown in with the Tyranids included that seem to be hints at how the devs might be moving to fix them - the Genestealers had stealth (which is now on the purestrains in GSC), the Warriors had Move Through Cover (which they used to have in 3rd and 4th when it was Army-wide, makes sense), and the Carnifex had It Will Not Die.

I'm taking that and running with it - Army-wide It Will Not Die on the Monstrous Creatures, representing Tyranids innate healing factor, with the Regeneration biomorph letting you roll twice for it each turn (this gives you roughly the same odds of recovering at least one Wound as the 4+ regen under the current rules, just a tad better actually, while also potentially letting you recover two on a good roll, this being mechanically closer to all the old forms of regeneration which could spike for a bunch of Wounds at once).

>>51952891
Its fluffy sure and sounds fun, but I cant see it being overly balanced

>>51952807
>3+ on warriors no. I love my warriors but 3+ is too sexy for them. Leave them at T5 W2
I think 3+ should be available as an upgrade, but definitely not stock. I was surprised to go through the old 2e Codex again and realize that the Hardened Carapace upgrade back then wasn't a +1 to current save but just a flat 2+ armour save, and that was available to Warriors for 10pts per model. Of course the whole AP system worked differently then, with negative modifiers instead of all-or-nothing, so that would be much too strong now, but I think the ability to pay points to upgrade from a 4+ to a 3+ is a good approximation.

>>51952920
Current Regeneration biomorph doesn't exactly break the game, I don't think giving the sorely underpowered MCs a weaker version of it stock that they can pay to upgrade further is going to do it either.

how about female nids?

>>51953226
no

>>51953226
Yes. Tyranids finally found a way to get more seeds.

>>51953226
already a thing. hormagaunts left isolated on a planet will spontaneously develop sex organs and start breeding up a big swarm.

had a few ideas for changes id make if it was up to me.

Mc guns, the brainleach decourers issue isn't so much being op but that its so much better than the otger options. something like the following profiles would hopefully make them all viable options
Devours S6 AP- Assault 5 twin linked
Heavy venomcannon S9 AP4 assault 2-3.

Stranglethorn S6 AP5 Assault 1 large blast, ignores cover.

Deathspitters S7 AP5 Assault 2 blast.

should make them all useful and good at different things.

for pyrovores I'd give them +1 A, any death can trigger an explosion and let tye flamespurt get D3 hits at I 1 in cc if it didn't shoot that turn. maybe let them overwatch for synapse creatures within 6 inches.

>>51954210
Nids are crazy

Gaunts can also spontaneously develop synapse abilities when out of contact for long enough

I had an idea of people turning into nids via genetic fuckery and genestealer powers. Is this possible?

New status update:

Hive Tyrant is mostly done, will need a second pass at the end.

Warriors and Prime are done.

I'm on the Carnifex now and it's... what the hell do I do with this thing, its stats are kind of fucking schizophrenic throughout the editions. Partially this is due to the 4th ed one which could be fine-tuned to so many different roles, some of which now have been taken by new niche MCs like the Toxicrene and Tyrannofex.

Ye olde Screamer-Killer was Toughness 8 and could upgrade to 9, with the same armour save as Terminators (which in today's terms would translate to something closer to the 2+/4++ of cataphractii than what regular Terminators have).

Then in 3rd BRB it was a 5++ save.. flat. So it could eat plasma shots without flinching and then die to bolters.

In the Codex it was S10 T6 3+ save with the ability to upgrade to 2+, but no invuln.

In 4e it had the base stats of the previous iteration but could upgrade to T7 and 5 wounds and got back regeneration as an option from 2e with new crunch. Still no invuln though.

5 and 6 just sucked, I'll be ignoring them for the most part.

Now going into modern 40k in the days of grav, we need to address that no MC can survive without either an invuln or Feel no Pain save, or something else like Flying/Jink/Shrouded.

...I spent a long time with this message half typed up but unfinished as I went over my options. I think I've figured out more or less what I want to do with the Carnifex.

>>51922331
>No past
>been in the game since the very fucking beginning

You're probably a Tau player anyway, right?

>>51955603
My guess would be to treat things like the Maliceptor and Toxcirene as different flavors of Carnifex. Like if i remember correctly, the screamer killer had a lance type attack that would fit well on the big psychic bug.
Whatever is left can be the new Carnifex.

>>51956234
scramer killers lance type attack was bioplasma. 6e fexs have that as a 12 inch plasma cannon shot.

>>51922331
>Tau Empire
>Rival

How's that sentient flaming warpstorm treating you guys?

>>51956516
Yeah. The modern one is actually closer to the original than a Lance would be.

Zoanthropes are the ones who had/have Lance type attacks.

Status update just making sure the thread doesn't die.

Lictor is pretty much finalized. Working on Zoanthropes.

>>51955603
>>51956234
Seconded.

>>51956572
we don't know

we're basically gingers

>>51922501
>Implying genestealers weren't intended to be the introduction for tyranids
>Implying gsc is better than nids as a valid point

Mr Cruddace what are you doing here.

>you're kidding yourself

>>51907064
Make orks (Save for PK's and killsaws) a dakka based race.
Make 'nids the giant hordes of melee units race.

>>51944090
i like this idea and expanding on it how about this.
Consumption and Adaption trees the usual 7 powers. Proliferation probably just 4 powers.
gonna have a go at making up new powers to fill numbers.

Consumption
bring back leech essence as the primaris
1 Warpblast, give it the option to cast at warp charge 3or 4 and use a SD range 12 profile.
2 Psychic shriek
3 The Horror
4 Paroxysm
5 bring back hypnotic gaze
6 Phantasm Assault, malediction that reduces A and I to 1 and gives blind.

Adaption
Primaris Dominin
1 Catalyst
2 Onslaught, but allows assault after running if you don't shoot.
3 Warp barrier: blessing that gives 5++ to a unit.
4 hyperactive senses: blessing that gives +1 BS/WS and interceptor.
5 a blessing that gives preferred enemy and precision shots/strikes maybe??
6 out of ideas now.

Proliferation
like the idea of nid summoning but don't think it should be just the same as deamon summoning.

primaris enraged flora: malediction. Enemy.unit is hit with soul blaze and treated as moving through difficult and dangerous terrain for the game turn.

1 reinvigorated casualties: blessing that restores D6 wounds worth of models to a unit, up to its starting size. Must restore models with full wounds (so a 5 only lets you bring back 1 3W warrior) warp charge 2.

2 Gathering swarm: summon 15 gaunts, hormagaunts or gargoyles or 6 ripper bases.
warp charge 2

3 rampaging hunters: summon 4 raveners, 1 carnifex, 1 harpy or hivecrone. warp charge 3

summoned units are placed in ongoing reserves, if they have the deepstrike special rule they may do so when they arrive. Otherwise they outflank.

>>51960851
I've considered the concept of two or three different Tyranid psychic disciplines a few times. My old iteration of the Codex had Xenotheurgy (Catalytic), Xenotheurgy (Horrific) and Zoanthropy.

However it always felt like I was making up unnecessary filler powers to fill them out, and it was easier to just distill it down to the current powers but with buffs to make all of them useful. That and it's honestly stupid they don't just have access to Biomancy - now that GSC have it there's no more excuse to keep it from nids.

I'm not a huge fan of the summoning for nids either because it will very easily take over your entire list and lead to people spamming Warp Charges to maximize free shit.

>>51961034
to avoid filler powers you could do trees of just 4 powers (primaris plus 3 rolled on with a D3) so you've only got 8 or 12 total.

i do like the idea of seperate trees for different sorts of powers letting nids specialise their psykers which seems like something they can do. olus you can specialize the units. Like zoanthropes only get witchfires and tervigons only buffs. so its not as simple as just spamming 1 kind of psyker.

yeah I'm iffy on summoning to but it seemed an interestinf idea and thats why i went with delayed arrival and no summoned psykers to try tone down the bullshittery.

another idea.
instead of aummong new units
tyranids get reserve manipulation, like a power thats just pick a unit in reserve. it arrives immediately and can assault that turn.

>>51960851

I like the idea of a more reserve based summoning for profilerations. Maybe something along the lines of

Primaris : Capillary Tunnel : place a small blast on the map and scatter it. Any units under this small blast must immediately take a tank shock test, while any terrain is immediately destroyed. You may then either place a Capillary Pillar which allows Tyranid units to deep strike perfectly, or a tunnel which lets nids come out of reserves from.

>>51961977
This isn't Dawn of War. We don't need cartoonish video gamey silliness like a Capillary Tower suddenly sprouting from the ground at breakneck speeds to send guys flying because it looks cool to 12 year olds.

Trygons already create tunnels to bring in units from Reserve, and do it in a way that's much more sensical and iconic.

Between said Trygon tunnels, Lictors Pheromone Trail, Outflank-granting abilities like the one the Hive Tyrant has, Tyrannocytes and Tervigons spawning new units, Tyranids in concept already have plenty of ways to manipulate Reserves and bring new units onto the table in strategic positions. All that's lacking is the execution. These existing tools just need to be buffed and reworked to perform their intended roles properly.

>>51962146
to be honest the only real changes that need to be done is to let you not roll for units in reserve to delay them until the tunnel is in. perhals add a rule that you can nominate a unit or 2 in reserve with the tyrgon. Don't roll for those units instead they're automatically in ongoing reserve the turn the trygon arrives (so they can arrive by the tunnel the next turn).

lictors need to give their non scatter buf the turn they arrive. I've also thought lictors could be interesting if they scatter on deepstrike, but can then assault that turn. Scattering being an abstraction of how far away it is spotted when it launches its attack.

>>51907064
What is the source for the image? I have seen many of those but never found the author.

>>51962146
>We don't need cartoonish video gamey silliness like a Capillary Tower suddenly sprouting from the ground at breakneck speeds to send guys flying because it looks cool to 12 year olds
i think he was just going for a simple way using existing game mechanics to clear space for the entry point terrain.

>>51962245
>lictors need to give their non scatter buf the turn they arrive.
Personally I think that Pheromone Trail working as a teleport homer beacon is stupid and it should instead function as a way to give your units in Reserve Outflank instead. It doesn't really make sense that Tyrannocytes dropping down out of space or Mawlocs coming up from under the ground are zeroing in on pheromones with that accuracy if the Lictor itself was not flying around through the atmosphere or crawling around underground to lay the trail.

Lictors deployment should also be changed to a special form of Infiltrate rather than Deep Strike, and they should DEFINITELY be able to charge the first turn.

>>51962146

Thats true, maybe something more like what >>51962245
is suggesting in a reserve manipulation

Primaris : Signal the Hive : The caster may select one unit in reserves and can choose to pass or fail its next reserve roll.

>>51962287
I don't hate the idea but I feel like it can be better done as a special rule for a Tyrant variant (I've got a perfect fit called a Praecisuron) than a psychic power.

>>51962280
i always figured the pheremones thing was just local. but the information it provided to nearby nids was shared through the synapse web to the benefit of the more distant reserves

>>51962313
If anything it should just be synapse range itself that functions as a homing beacon for Deep Striking Tyranids.

The Lictor's pheromone trail seems more fluffed as the sort of thing that would lead to distant Tyranids coming around to Outflank the enemy from another angle to entrap them.

>>51960637

I'd give Orks buffs to things the more of them in a mob, and or how many mobs were within a certain distance of them.

But that's just the Epic Armageddon player in me remembering how good they were there. Essentially you'd roll up the board shooting wildly into the air with minimal effect before colliding with an Imperial Guard company at max speed, vomiting out all of the Boyz as you went and completely shredding anything that lived beneath your 20+ 4+ Melee attacks, whilst you shedded 6+ Blast Markers a turn thanks to all of your Nobz having leader.

Fighting Orks should be like trying to stop a combine harvester that's bearing down on you at high speed.

Update on Carnifexes.

I've more or less got this rule worded properly now - my attempt at making something that actually represents a living engine of destruction smashing infantry fodder aside to get at the tank line behind them.

>Living Battering Ram: When a Carnifex charges, it inflicts D3 Hammer of Wrath Attacks, rather than just 1. If the target enemy unit suffers any casualties as a result of these Hammer of Wrath Attacks, it must pass a Morale check at the end of the Initiative 10 step of the Fight sub-phase or Fall Back from combat before any further blows are struck. The Carnifex unit rolls two dice and uses the highest result when resolving a Sweeping Advance against an enemy unit that fails this Morale check. Furthermore, once per turn, when a Carnifex unit makes a Consolidate move after the target of its charge Falls Back or is destroyed in a Sweeping Advance due to this special rule, it can move into base contact with another enemy unit within range of its Consolidate move, treating this as a new charge.

>>51916327
>Warriors
Sure.
>Remove feed
Meh.
>MC 30-40 drop
15-40 depending on the MC
>Carnifex & haruspex ws4
Just haruspex
>Carnifex extra attack
Depends on the point drop.
>tyrand pt drop & wing pt up
Yes.
>Tyrant & fex 2+
Yes. Obviously Tyrant can't get 2+ and wings as usual.
>Lictors snap shot
Yea it's fine I guess. I wan't something else done with lictors though. Don't know what.
>Pyrovore torrent
As much as this would make him better, I don't really like it for some reason.
>Gaunts w/o number
Ye.
>Gaunts beasts
God yes.
>Hive gaurd bs4 when stationary
Could do the job, maybe instead;
1+/2+ BS when targeting enemy units within synapse range

? I dunno, I feel an offensive element to synapse could be interesting. It produce some alternative strategies where rushing in some say, warriors with beast or wing upgrades. Or a broodlord or two.
>Living ammo rerolling 1 to wound
Breddy gud
>Scytal reroll 1 to hit
Yea, when did this leave? fug
>Genestealers shrouded
Eh... feels real patchwork.
>Psychic table rework with possible dual tables
Yea this is fine. One being support oriented the other offensive.
>MC rework or removal
Yea, mostly that big mouth thing.
>Warrior produces warp charge
Eh.... I feel this could hinder their actual use.
>Rework stangler and VC
I always get weirdly lucky with strangler. Must be me, but it's probably fine with just a teeny buff.
VC definitely needs a change.

>>51962330
synapse just preventing DS scatter might be a bit much given how easy synapse coverage can be.
A reroll for DS in synapse range is probably more moderate.

>>51962682
>VC definitely needs a change
it just needs to go back to non blast multiple shots. bring it back as a tank/mc killing option.

>>51962731
Yea, that werks fine.

>>51950086
"Flying Tguard"

>>51962682
>Genestealers shrouded
>Eh... feels real patchwork.
Genestealers in GSC have shrouded and +1 attack and theyre lovely, same points cost

>Carnifex extra attack
>Depends on the point drop.
Compare a dreadnought to a carnifex, its tougher, has more CC attacks, better WS and is cheaper and comes stock with guns

>>51962872
>Genestealers in GSC have shrouded and +1 attack and theyre lovely, same points cost
They don't, they have Stealth and a 5+ invuln.

The Cult Insurrection Detachment grants all models Infiltrate, while ones which already have Infiltrate get Shrouded for turn 1 only.

>>51962872
Yea, but if the fex points dropped I can only imagine a points drop of a biomorph or two, an extra attack could be fine or it could be what stops it from being balanced right.

With a points drop biomorphs become more available, an extra attack could herald the return of the godfex.

>>51922751
>Just because they cooperate when something angry wants to ruin their day doesn't mean that they don't have in fighting
Except nids don't, they only "in fight" when they do biomorph tests, no biomass is lost in these tests

>But notice how they had to actually retcon a pre-existing faction into being the vassals of the Tyranids, simply for them to exist
Necrons use to be myserious aliens, now a faction. Kroot are part of the tau. Dark Eldar part of the Eldar. Fuck off

>>51962886
Well that's even better than what I thought, knew it was a 5+ something! Give Nid stealers that! Or lower Stealers to 10-11 points
>>51962889
Yeah fair, drop Fexes to 90 points, give them an extra CC attack. They still slow, more expensive than dreads and have no gun stock

>>51962909
>Yeah fair, drop Fexes to 90 points, give them an extra CC attack. They still slow, more expensive than dreads and have no gun stock
i can get behind that. keep the stats much the same and make them cheaper. their niche can be the cheap versatile MC. it can be built for any role but generally won't do a specific one as well as the more expensive "specialist" MCs.

>>51962682
>>Remove feed
>Yes!
FIFY

>>51962909
>Yeah fair, drop Fexes to 90 points, give them an extra CC attack.
Drop the their BS by 1 and make BS3 a 10 pt upgrade while you're at it

File: 200% Radical.png (487KB, 525x641px) Image search: [Google]

487KB, 525x641px

>>51907064
>Further reduce the price of all models (Monstrous and Gargantuan Creatures especially) in order to make both swarm and nidzilla armies valid (and everything in between) via various formations
>Give more options to Monstrous and Gargantuan Creatures (ESPECIALLY THE CARNIFEX)
>Either replace some useless units or buff them to make them valid (I'M LOOKING AT YOU PYROVORE, YOU SHOULD BE REPLACED WITH SOMETHING BETTER)
>Buff Tyranid Special Characters and make some valid to use (I'M LOOKING HERE AT YOU OLD-ONE EYE) and GIVE THEM NEW MODELS
>Change the mechanisms of certain Apex Biomorphs (I REFUSE TO CALL THEM BIO ARTIFACTS) and Warlord Traits to make them more useful
>CHANGE NID PSYCHIC POWERS TO MAKE THEM WORTH CASTING
>Have FW release models for units like the Dimarchareon
>Overall make rules and models for units like the Norn Queen, Dominatrix or the Hydraphant
>Refubrish some of the old Nid units (such as the Nautiloid and etc) and give them new rules and models

>>51963500
Why? BS3 isn't amazing. Fexes aren't amazing at shooting (unless given brainleech) and with 4 attacks at WS3... they can only kill just under 2 guardsmen a turn on average in CC

>>51912592
I think the Hive Mind could do with a bit of Newcron'ing. Right now, nids are just generic bug invader #811. They need some kind of character, motive, interesting stuff.

How about:

>Hive Mind was actually the leader of his race during an intergalactic war
>gets deposed and punished by his enemies
>his people are soul-wiped and mutated into horrible monsters
>his personality is broken up and scattered amongst all of them
>he's really just trying to eat and survive long enough to reunite all the parts of his brain and save his people

Or some shit

>>51964459
This is fucking horrible and you are either not a tyranid fan or you shouldn't be

Tyranids are not characters and do not need to be "zerged" they are the hivemind, the swarm, the endless intergalactic locust monsters. People are fans of them BECAUSE of this

>>51964459
>Guys we just beat the leader of that intergalactic war, we won
>Lets split his mind into a quintillion pieces?
>Sure!!!! Lets also turn all his people into giant super replicating bio weapons that can travel the void of space?
>Smart move Jenkins!

You should write for BL

>>51964514
It's a minimal novelty that appeals to a few people.

Such a group doesn't even work as a playable faction in 40k because they run counter to "your dudes" in every way. Right now nids are literally an NPC race. If you keep their fluff the same, GSC should become the "main" nid faction and something like a Flyrant should get buffed to LoW level, etc

>games between other factions

"My dude wants your dudette's artifacts/has personal vendetta/glory to the dark gods" and so on

>every single game against Tyranids

"you have to survive the onslaught of the swarm lol xDddd!!1!"

Nothing about Tyranids is conducive to interesting games.

>>51963500
So like 3rd and 4th edition?

>>51964589
There are already many factions that have personalities and all that shit. Some people wanna play the swarm of monsters, the big bad beasts. Don't try taking that away and making them like everyone else. Eldar but with teeth and tentacles

>>51962245
I say bring back the 4th ed Lictor arrival rules. It scatters within area terrain (or the terrain piece is selected beforehand) and can assault when they arrive.

>>51962269
http://steeljoe.deviantart.com/gallery/

>>51962524
All of this sounds good, except the sweeping advance. The Carnifex isn't slaughtering the rest of the squad it just barreled through, it's going for the tank. I'd say that the carnifex can either reroll Sweeping Advance, or reroll Consolidation in order to get in

>>51962682
I tried giving Genes the same rule that Striking Scorpions do: Stealth, and they have Shrouded until they shoot or assault.

>>51964596
Yes.
>>51964183
See above

File: 1397508478672.jpg (119KB, 945x960px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 945x960px

>>51964459
I hope your dog dies from testicle cancer. Would save him from a shitty owner

>>51964598
You don't need to get rid of that either.

Necrons still have groups getting mindslaved by the C'tan. Your hive fleet or splinter or whatever can be far enough out that they haven't recollected their Hive Mind's personality or whatever. What I gave was just an example: a shitty example, because I'm not an author.

They just need some variation or it's boring to play against.

>>51964780
Jokes on you, my dog doesn't have testicles.

>>51965115
Maybe a little more deviancy in hive fleet tactics and biomorphs, but I can't say I've ever wanted there to be any more than a vast, Lovecraftian intelligence behind theswarm

>>51965166
Because he's dead!

>>51965166

How does he smell?

>>51965282
Joke's still on you, my dogs are both female.

male one is ded though :(

but he still didn't have testicles :^)

>>51965115
The best and worst thing about 40k. It's written to encourage people to add their own touches to things since it is by heart a creative hobby.

Go with whatever you please anon. The entire setting is fucking bonkers and almost anything you can think of can feasibly exist somewhere, somehow.

It's feasible that perhaps there are smaller deviant tendrils that have been forced to make their own mini hive minds in order to survive, which could lead to deviances from the norm.

>>51965248
As long as it's an active Lovecraftian horror that actually does shit and isn't just Zerg before Zerg got rewritten.

>>51965351
>but he still didn't have testicles
Because you are as soulless as the Tyranids

>>51965394
I honestly enjoy the brutal image the Tyranids present: no ulterior motives, no plans to summon dark gods, just a desire to eat and move on. It kind of makes all the war in the Milky Way seem like it means nothing at all when there are races like the Tyranids beyond the void. I play them because I enjoy looking through that perspective.

>>51964459
Nope.

If Nids should get the Newcron treatment, then the other way.

If I had to change them from proto-Zerg to something more, then I'd have it fleshed out that Nids would be artificially created by a race in another galaxy to fight for them against the shitton of enemies the race had. Essentially bio-weapons that would do the dirty work. Bio-weapons that would go out of control.

At first the Nids were fine and obedient, but the more they evolved and adapted, the harder they were to control. The Nids' creators sent then to exterminate their creations. They done it, but they did miss a single Hive Ship. Said ship then went to the farthest edges of the galaxy, devoured unprotected/unclaimed worlds and grew enough to go and attack whole civilizations. At this point they were out of control and it was impossible to exterminate without banding together.

The races of that galaxy did band together. They failed. And it was because they thought of the creatures that would later be known as Tyranids to be simply mindless beasts.

After completely consuming their home galaxy, the Tyranids would migrate to another to start anew. And the next. And the next. And do so for so long until they got to the Milky Way Galaxy.

The birth of the Tyranids in their home galaxy was along with the birth of life in the Milky Way. The creators of the Nids were like the Old Ones, but with much, much more fail and heavy reliance on thrall races.

>>51965670
I like this, but I'm not sure of how it could be revealed. Maybe a Necron Overlord recounts stories of other brethren of the Old Ones that they had worried were sending reinforcements, including "a weapon that will erase the Necrontyr from existence," yet those reinforcements never came, and the Old Ones' allies disappeared without a trace.

>>51963501
>Have FW release models for units like the Dimarchareon

they have already, it had a model when the rules came out.

the only nid unit without a kit at the moment is Shrikes. but they're just warriors with wings.


also more gargantuan creatures aren't a thing nids need or that will fix them. though it would be nice.

>>51965670
That's a nice idea. Very R-Type.
One thing I've been musing with is a Tyrannic Dahli-Lama. Someone who comes into prominence within a genestealer cult. They gain powers, leadership, skill the lot, all downloaded from the Hive Mind.

The Fleet comes, devours everything, but then the cycle repeats itself. Another figure far away gets the same information sent to them, the memories and skills of the previous one and once again they use those gifts to ensure that the great devourer will come to an unwary world. Does that sound feasible?

>>51965750
That would be a good thing. Also make it so that the Necrons were aware that there are other galaxies that also had their Old Ones and were, along with being part of the whole War in Heaven, observing one of those galaxies that would sent reinforcements to the Old Ones...then all of a sudden discover that the galaxy became lifeless.

These observations would also continue under the Triarch Praetorian's supervision, and realize that there is something out there that was turning galaxies into lifeless husks. The Silent King on the other hand would also observe this and communicate with the Praetorians to exchange data.

Essentially the Necrons knew that there might be something like the Tyranids, but they couldn't confirm that until the first Hive Fleets were close to the Milky Way Galaxy.

>>51965841
>they have already
Now I saw it and now I feel stupid. Thought they pulled off another Mycetic Spore thing.

And I would really love to see Norn Queens as a unit. Maybe some rules that allow them to grant various mutations to swarms. Also Dominatrix.

>>51965893
So like psychic linking with the Hive Mind and then guiding it to the Lama's world? That would work.

>>51954998
Any thoughts on this?

>>51965947
Norn Queens are kind of not viable for that...If I remember correctly, they're hardwired to the core ship of a hive fleet.

>>51966020
That would be cool as a "your guy was infected before the start of the battle" ability, but doesn't happen fast enough to occur mid-game. Hell, lets just bring back the Parasite of Mortrex while we're on that train of thought.

>>51964459
I don't think I have ever actually hated someone on this board before... well done anon

>>51965248
This, I wouldn't mind like certain hive fleets giving unique benefits to show off how the fleets have evolved differently over a couple hundred years. However don't give them all different personalities with special characters and heroes etc

>>51966183
>>51965248
in the fluff hivefleets are already pretty varied in how they act.

rules representation of that would be good yeah.

>>51966021
yeah that or they're depicted as just straight up being hiveships themselves.

>>51966183
I agree.

Playing off the fractured personality idea... Not taking the "king from another galaxy" deal; that doesn't have to be explicit or even true, but.

What if each Hive Fleet either

>has a main theme/emotion

or

>plays off of an individual theme/emotion in their prey to overwhelm them

So Tyranids wouldn't just frighten people, but cause psychic backlash using their own emotions to throw them off.

Also, as a rules point, Shadow in the Warp could do more to fuck with psykers.

>>51966417
Doesn't really fit them, having each one give certain benefits works better, like behemoth being more straight forward, kraken being more into lictors and stealers, leviathan working more with big beasts or summin. Little but noticeable differences

>>51966505
>Behemoth - Vanguard Attack, Spearhead formations

All friendly units within Synapse range gain Rage, Adrenal Glands get discount

>Kraken - Cult Rebellions, Advanced Recon

Discount to Genestealers/Lictors, friendly units gain Preferred enemy if within 6" of either, 12" of Broodlords.

>Leviathan - Isolation Tactics, Unexpected Flank, Endless Hordes

3 friendly units gain outflank, discount to Gants and Hormagaunts.

>Jormungandr - Monstrous Horde, Attack From Below

Discount to MCs, Trygons/Mawlocs/Raveners gain reroll to DS scatter.

>Gorgon - Hyper-Adaptive

3 friendly units gain 1 free biomorph each that cannot total more than 20pts/model.


Thoughts?

>>51965947
>And I would really love to see Norn Queens as a unit.
I wouldn't. Sure they might be Gamma level psykers, but they are non-combatants. Sending them to the field would be just retarded and Tyranids don't need anymore retardation.
>Also Dominatrix.
Again, I wouldn't. I can see the appeal as a collector to own a model of it, but as an actual game unit I think it would only take away from the game than adding to it.

>>51919759
'EADWHOPPAZ KILLCHOPPA

Warboss striking at I4 6's are instant death rending, he will assfuck any nid monster.

>>51965947
>And I would really love to see Norn Queens as a unit
What? You know theyre like bigger than titans? Like a Norn Queen is probably the size of some small frigates

>>51965670
>THE TYRANOODS WERE SO SXARY, THEY ATE A UNIVERSE!
>AND THAN, ANOTHER!
>AND THAN, OHMIGAWD, ANOTHER!
>THEY EVEN MADE A SOOPR SPESHUL ALLIANCE TO FIGHT THE TYTANODS
>BUT THE TYRANUDS ATE THEM TOO!
>AND THE TYRANIPS ATE DAH GALAXY, AND ITZ DOESN MATTER, THE TYRABLOOPERS ARE GONNA EAT U 2.

This is why people hate Tyranid fags, even more than Chaos fags.

Why? Because you faggots feel the need to build up Tyranids as this UBER DOOMSDAY DEATH BUG RACE BIO-WEAPON THATS GONNA WIN NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE DOES, while wanking over them again and again. Even Chaos has a foil in the God Emperor, but you speshul snow flakes cannot even handle the idea that your not the be-all end all.

Even the Oldcrons had the possibility of being delayed, or even stopped, but oh no, the "Tyranoodles are gonna eat em all up!"

It'd be okay if the Tyranids were just a faction of hive mind bugs that were a scourge of the galaxy, in a sort of similiar fashion to the Orkz. But instead, they're presented as this ELDRUTCH MANSTER THINGY that has eaten DUZEMS!!!?!?! UF GALUXIES.

I mean, imagine somebody likes Blood Angels, and plays an army of them, and is a avid fan. Suddenly, some faggot comes online and basically tells you that the BA are a bunch of homos, and no matter what they do, they're gonna get eaten by a bunch of a-hole space bugs that don't do anything but eat stuff, and it wouldn't even matter if the entire galaxy helped out, it wouldn't matter, the Tyraderps would still eat them all because lol we have 12 galaxies.

>>51966890
>take away from the game than adding to it.

OK, I can kinda understand the thing with Norn Queens, but what would a Dominatrix take away instead of adding something to it?

These are essentially Bio-Titan versions of Hive Tyrants.

>>51966983
Are you alright BTW?

>>51966983
Do you get on Lovecraft forums and bitch about Cthulhu? I get the feeling that you do.

>>51966983
>They ate a universe
>Then a galaxy

You stupid

>>51967019
>but what would a Dominatrix take away instead of adding something to it?
I'm one of those faggots who like's his 40k "small". A knight is as big as I can stomach and even that is pushing it. And it's not just the models sizes, but the rules as well. A Wraithknight is an excellent example of a big ass unit gone wrong. So when I think about what Dominatrix would look in the game, it will be a REALLY big model with shitty rules that don't do it's fluff any justice (Bio-titan) or a bullshit pile that breaks the limit of what the game should allow (Taunar).

This is just my opinion on the subject though, so I can understand if others don't see it as I do.

>These are essentially Bio-Titan versions of Hive Tyrants.
They have titan-killer weapons and house a Gamma-level Norn-Queen inside. so I find that to be an oversimplification

>>51967213
Dominatrix don't house Norn Queens, Norn Queens are bigger and live aboard the hive ships. Dominatrix could be a cool model but I do agree it would be hard to do it justice

>>51966417
>Also, as a rules point, Shadow in the Warp could do more to fuck with psykers
perhaps psykers in range don't generate warp charges. Or only harness on 6 instead of 4+. Both would probably be a bit much.

>>51967213
But then again there is Apocalypse and you don't need to play Apocalypse.

On the other hand now I see your problem here. What would you say if Nids gotten a new swarming unit? Would go for a suicide Gaunt loaded with volatile chemicals (think like Zerg's SC1 Infested Terrans/SCII Banelings)...or maybe not. Maybe a more assault-like version of Tyranid Warriors? With biological shields that would act like Space Marine Combat Shields?

>>51967019
Not, not really. Im just tired of why people keep thinking that the Tyranids background is perfectly fine as is. Its a asinine, dumb wankfest of a mess that clumsily invalidates almost the entire setting, making it all a forgone conclusion. Every war, every villian, every hero, every action, is made non-relevant by the fact that when the Tyranids main fleet arrives, it will wipe the galaxy clean.

>>51967059
Funnily enough, no, I do not. Want to know why? Because Lovecraft doesnt involve other, more intresting factions, and the Eldritch abominations are actually alien in nature, not just a bunch of hungry bugs. In 40k, Tyranids out weigh their narrative space, by the fact that they eclipse every other faction all together in pure strength and power. And, unlike in Lovecrafts stories, where the Star creatures are the main point of interest, Tyranids are SUPPOSED to be another faction amongst others.

Infact, comparing the Tyranids to something as unknowable as the Mythos is almost a insult, as the Mythos is entirely alien in their motives, or at least, far more intresting. The Tyranids have already played their hand:

Their goal? Eat everything.
Their plan? Eat everything.
Their future? Find more things to eat.

To put it simply, there is a reason that the Xenomorphs, Bugs from Starship Troopers, and the Buggers from Enders Game are ultimately the looser: Because nobody likes being told, from a war and poltically focused narrative like 40k, that they lost because the Big Evil Space bugs ate everyone.

>>51967323
>it will wipe the galaxy clean.

Implying. 40K proved that the other factions are capable of actually standing up to the Nids despite the pants-on-head incompetence/retardantness and simultaneously fighting each other 24H a day.

Also implying that they don't have mysteries to themselves because at this point NOBODY knows anything about them apart of the fact that they want to eat stuff. They are essentially an out-of the box enemy.

>>51967240
That's at least what lexicanum claims, though it does lack citation.
>>51967291
>What would you say if Nids gotten a new swarming unit?
I don't actually want any new units for Tyranids. When I look at my codex I see so many shitty units that were added for the sake of something new and selling. Like when we look back at the 4th ed Carnifex, you could build a monster to suit multiple different roles (can-opener, distraction, bombfex, ect), now you can't anymore probably because other units are doing it. Carnifex is pretty much a can-opener with its mediocre WS3 and A3-4. Toxicrine is the infantry/monster hunter and the Haruspex is probably somewhere in between them (an it fails horribly).

I think it would be best to focus on making the units that are already in place better and give them the tools to suit different combat roles, instead of just bloating the army with more and more mediocrity

>>51967556
Agreed.

For starters, I'd give Tyranid Warriors the same stats as Warrior Primes, where as the Warrior Primes would get extra 2A and a additional wound.

>>51967589
>I'd give Tyranid Warriors the same stats as Warrior Primes
They don't honestly need it other than maybe the T5 so that they could withstand S8-9. If they were to get that or EW, they would be solid gold as troops.
>where as the Warrior Primes would get extra 2A and a additional wound.
A massive price drop to 80-90 pts and access to wings (jump unit upgrade) should suffice. It's odd that they extended his Alpha rule to Shrikes in 6th ed, though it will never come to play because he can't keep up with them

>>51967809
Fair enough. Especially with the T5 since Nid Warriors are fragile.

>>51967809
Though I would like to see Warriors drop to 25 pts/head with 4 talons and the option to upgrade to a Dev or claws for 5pts/model

>>51967809
The spoiler is just further proof to me that Cruddace did not give one single shit while writing the book.

>>51967857
This plus T5 sounds perfect

>>51967857
>>51968954
Don't forget the option for a 3+ save and cheaper boneswords.

>>51967857
>>51968954
>>51969125
This might be too good at 25ppm given that Bullgryns have a similar statline at 45ppm and aren't synapse with all the additional benefits that entails.

>>51969125
Boneswords are fine at 20 pts. +5 pts for ID on 6s for power swords is fair enough.
>>51969239
I'm the guy who suggested the 25 pts/model. The idea would be that Warriors stay the same but with EW >Inb4 but that's for muh snowflakes! or that they become T5 W2. The 25 pts is just to make it easier to spam them because that's how the Hive Mind rolls

File: Tyrannofex_battle.png (1MB, 741x1011px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 741x1011px

Here is my 2 cents on our big artillery bug.
at the moment it only really sees play with the acid spray so I'd try pump up the other guns as viable options like so. First off the Tyrannofex should just be BS 4, it is a dedicated shooting beast.
Borer hive gets shred to make it more reliable.

Rupture cannon gets +1 on vehicle damage table and if both shots hit the first pen/glance deals D3 HP.

>>51969400
>First off the Tyrannofex should just be BS 4, it is a dedicated shooting beast.
Agreed.

>Borer hive gets shred to make it more reliable.
I'm moving this over to the Tervigon for a few reasons, actually.

>Rupture cannon gets +1 on vehicle damage table and if both shots hit the first pen/glance deals D3 HP.
Got a couple ideas for how to work the Rupture Cannon, but likewise they all revolve around the idea that if you hit with both shots it becomes a serious problem for whatever you're shooting at. Will require a bit of playtesting to see what works best.

>>51969400
>Hives
Shread is good. Slash the price for free and it's great.
>Rupture cannon
Just give it Blast and cut the price in half (15 pts)

>>51964685
Updated.

>When a Carnifex charges, it inflicts D3 Hammer of Wrath Attacks, rather than just 1. An enemy unit which suffers any casualties as a result of these Hammer of Wrath Attacks must pass a Morale check at the end of the Initiative 10 step of the Fight sub-phase or Fall Back from combat before any further blows are struck. Furthermore, once per turn, after the target of its charge Falls Back or is destroyed in a Sweeping Advance due to failing a Morale check caused by this special rule, the Carnifex unit can attempt to charge again in place of Consolidating.

File: biomorphs.png (404KB, 525x640px) Image search: [Google]

404KB, 525x640px

>>51969400
>>51969464
God I want the tyrannofex to be good

Rupture cannon is probably my favorite biomorph. The thought of it is just so damn cool.

>>51969882
So no sweeping advance?

>>51969956
I removed the bonus to it, but they still get a chance to Sweep as normal when the unit Falls Back of course. If they fail to sweep them and there isn't another juicy target in range they can also try to catch the Falling Back unit with the second charge and get another two chances (one to fail Regrouping when charged while Falling Back, then the potential to lose more guys to the second wave of HoW hits and break again).

>>51940448
Because they don't do scaling prices.

Same reason SOB and IG pay 15pts for Power Weapons and 25pts Power Fists (the same as SM)

>>51960851
>>51961034
>>51961175
So I've been thinking over this more, and I've decided to move my army-wide Hive Mind "Canticles" special abilities back over to being psychic powers again. The double tree actually does work quite well, and prevents the Synapse Creature special rule from having too many different parts the way I was doing it. This also cements in what I wanted to do for the Hive Tyrant.

Hell I'm not even against the summoning half-discipline now that I've thought it over, as long as the execution is done correctly.

File: so tired so very tired.jpg (40KB, 654x643px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 654x643px

>all this will be for naught
>the next nid dex GW pumps out will be even worse

>>51969400
All fleshborer and devourer weapons should have shred to make them analogous to when they had Living Ammunition.

The rupture cannon is just hot garbage. If both shots hit the second shot should be resolved at strength D, that would make it actually represent its fluff description.

>>51962524
>>51964685
>>51969882
Carnifexes really don't need elaborate special rules, they just need a logical statline so they can actually realistically fight a unit in close combat.

Also probably everything, particularly monstrous creatures should probably have access to FNP via either biomorphs or the effects of synapse and psyker units like hive tyrants and tervigons should have access to warp field invulnerable saves, but I think those go without saying.

>>51972145
>All fleshborer and devourer weapons should have shred to make them analogous to when they had Living Ammunition.
In today's 40k I think there are more interesting ways to represent Living Ammunition.

>The rupture cannon is just hot garbage. If both shots hit the second shot should be resolved at strength D, that would make it actually represent its fluff description.
I don't think it's quite that powerful. D is like weapons that tear holes in reality or Titan-sized macroweapons.

>Carnifexes really don't need elaborate special rules, they just need a logical statline so they can actually realistically fight a unit in close combat.
Carnifexes need a defined role (or at least a few different ones) since we have such an overload of different Monstrous Creatures now. Expanding the LBR rule to give them something that functions basically as a Tank Shock helps separate them from the Haruspex and the Toxicrene and so on, and gives Tyranids an option they never had before. And it's fluffy as hell. Now they can actually break through a line of infantry, send them scattering, and then slam into the tank behind them in the same Assault phase, pretty much exactly as the fluff has always described.

>Also probably everything, particularly monstrous creatures should probably have access to FNP via either biomorphs or the effects of synapse and psyker units like hive tyrants and tervigons should have access to warp field invulnerable saves, but I think those go without saying.
Everything with base 6 Wounds ought to be Gargantuan anyway which comes with Feel No Pain built in.

>>51972826
>Everything with base 6 Wounds ought to be Gargantuan anyway which comes with Feel No Pain built in
gargantuan Trygon (again) and tyranofex sound good.
Would be to much on the tervigon IMO.

>>51973218
Given that the Tervigon and Tyrannofex are quite literally the same exact size I have no idea how you could justify doing one and not the other, though.

>>51973358
Tervigons are in a good place already, though

>>51974425
I'm very skeptical of that. If they were decent you would see more lists run them instead of taking maximum Flyrants and Mucolids.

>>51974425
The only times they ever actually earn their points back is if someone charges it with a dreadnought and it gets electroshock grubbed.

They're only useful because they produce gaunts, and its frankly a better use of your points to just buy the gaunts. You get more than the tervigon will typically produce per game for your points.

>>51973358
thats true. I guess it wouldn't be to bad really. just feels off, that a twservigon could get 3 small blast stomps going. i dunno

>>51972826
>In today's 40k I think there are more interesting ways to represent Living Ammunition.
Well the fluff was the little ammobugs crawling around and finding gaps in the armour.
So the enemy has to reroll armour saves of 6? Borerhive and brainleach devourers 5s and 6s.

>>51975828
I was thinking To Wound rolls of 6 wound automatically regardless of Toughness and force re-roll of successful armour saves.

Also that if a model suffers an unsaved Wound from a Living Ammo weapon it must pass a Toughness test or take another Wound with no saves of any kind allowed, then repeat until it passes a test or die, to represent it being eaten alive from the inside after the initial hit.

>>51975799
>just feels off, that a twservigon could get 3 small blast stomps going. i dunno
I agree that feels off, but it does for the Tyrannofex just as much.

I'm thinking they would get a special rule to modify their Stomp attacks.

>>51976058
probably just be simplest to limit it to making 1 stomp. represting it essentially body slamming an infantry in its face.

>>51907064
>Cut all point costs by 25%

>>51978313
The people who post this crap are honestly the worst. Cutting points doesn't do dick to fix the problems nids actually have. You can already play games with asymmetric points if you want, that doesn't make nids feel like nids.

>>51972145
>Carnifexes really don't need elaborate special rules, they just need a logical statline so they can actually realistically fight a unit in close combat.

>>51972826
>Carnifexes need a defined role

They should be the Swiss-Army Monstrous Creature of the Tyranids/Fex of All Trades. A naked Carnifex with no specialized upgrades and just Scything Talons is nice and all, but its true power is in being insanely customizable.

I remember back in the glory days of 4th ED when Nids could essentially turn a fex to fit in ANY role. Want a close-combat monster that could give a Eldar Avatar a fight of his life and make Independent Characters suffer? The Carnifex can be this if you want. Want a tank popper? The Carnifex has it covered. Want something to take on Plague Marines in ranged combat? A Carnifex with the proper stuff will make them cry.

And there were also shown Carnifex conversions to mirror the described customizations.

>>51978673
unfortunately I can see GW doing this just so I have to buy more

>>51907064
Make them Space Marines. You'll instantly see them become so popular GW will have to make them competitive. Your welcome.

>>51907064

I'd like a move back to the good old days. Tyranids as primarily melee combatants who throw vast hordes of basic troops at their enemies.

Bring back mutable genus rules.

Downplay the big ticket monstrous creatures and psykers and shooters. To me, the heart and soul of the Tyranids is a table full of warriors and gaunts rushing at the enemy force in seemingly inexhaustable numbers. Or a genestealer / lictor force that horrifies even as it picks your army apart.

And who needs warlord powers? There is only the Hive Mind. Do not become too independent for your own good, cerebrate. I'd rather brew up some noxious debilitating parasites that debuff my enemies than have some gee whiz generalism


Yes I know it's starcraft, but we need cerebrates, too.

>>51978313
>sweet now i can field 25% more flyrants and spores

>>51980663
That's a good idea. Reminds me a bit of the Dawn of War Tyranid mod that had things like this. Perhaps buffs/debuffs and whatnot could replace warlord traits?

Some such powers were to have a member of an enemy squad burst apart in a shower of rippers. Others were acid rain to increase the damage dealt to units in that area. One was overgrowth to slow down enemies, etc..

>>51978313
>1840 pts
>TheFutureYouChose.jpg

File: Tyranids - 2300pts.jpg (175KB, 900x1251px) Image search: [Google]

175KB, 900x1251px

>>51981037
Pic didn't load

>>51980663
Is there any reliable way to deal with fast skimmer armies like Eldar and Dark Eldar? They are just going to kite the nids around, stay out of the range of their weapons and pink them to death.

>>51907064
Stop playing a shit game like 40k.

>>51981334

No idea but if I were re-writing the Nids, the idea would be to layer enough gaunts and give them enough mobility that they crowd the skimmers out entirely. That is, you can't kite enemies when they're covering the board like a carpet.

An army with tougher troops can hold the line and block that advance, but armies that depend on kiting and redeploying to out-maneuver their foes are in a race against time before they run out of places to run.

The challenge is that several armies (IG, orks) are already horde-style forces. If Nids were going to do it, it would have to have its own distinctive style. Monstrous creatures sounds great for that but A) it violates the distinctive tyranid fluff, and B) other armies do this general approach better with vehicles.

>>51982069
I think we need our basic troops reworked so that our MCs don't trip over them. It's frustrating as hell when I lose a few inches on forward movement because my gants rolled a 1 and my fex rolled a 6.

>>51982069
for that to work you would need ridiculous amount of gants and i don't think many players want to paint 200+ gants just to be able to touch eldar armies.

not to mention that with so many gants it's pretty much impossible for the bigger bugs to do anything because the gants get in the way

>>51982069
This, I miss my swarming days. Also I would make gaunts beasts. Or at least give ALL gaunts +3 to runs and charges or something. They should easily outpace a guardsman

>>51983229
I have 90 Termas and 60 hormas so im not far off

>>51984499
My thought's exactly. Something like "Galloping Locomotion" or something, where they gain +3" to move.

>>51979084
The thing is, it's not 4th edition anymore. In those days the Carnifex was the biggest MC we could field and the ONLY one besides the Hive Tyrant.

Since then we've gained the Trygon, the Mawloc, the Tervigon, the Tyrannofex, the Harpy/Hive Crone, the Haruspex, the Exocrine, the Toxicrene, the Maleceptor, and the Dimachaeron if you include Forge World, not counting their Gargantuan Creatures. Oh, and I guess you can include the Sporocyst, since spawning Spore Mines was also a thing the 4th ed Fex could do.

We don't need a complete swiss army knife anymore with these specialized kits, but we do need base fexes to bring something to the table that is unique to them. Being able to more or less Tank Shock infantry off the board and then charge into stuff they were bubble-wrapping is a unique and fluffy ability that fits the Carnifex.

It should of course still be customizable to some degree - almost all Tyranids should - but many of its old options are now represented by new MCs which can be thought of as derived from the Carnifex into larger, more specialized strains.

>>51982233
I've thought of that too.

>>51984499
>>51984766
Special rule "Biologis Gauntii: [copy-paste Acrobatic special rule from Howling Banshees]"

>>51984517

Yeah like many Tyranid players from back in the day, I have well over a hundred Hormagaunts.

>>51985120
Use to just drop them all down and laugh at my opponents face, several months back tried doing the same. My army just got blasted and flamed to fuck.

>>51921743
Tyranids with Tanks are a fun image though.

>>51933449
>Give me 72 hours.
Okay I'm at the 72 hour mark now but not quite finished, there's still a lot to do.

Making progress though.

>>51985885
Take as long as you need. We don't have anything else to do.

>>51985944
Thanks. I appreciate all the support and help from the thread, there's been some really good discussion and ideas here.

>>51985971
What are you working on now?

>>51986902
Redid some stuff on the Carnifex that I still wasn't satisfied with, but I think I'm about done on that front now.

Going back to balancing Hormagaunts next. This has been a lot of fun actually. I'm crunching a bunch of numbers of my projected Horms vs Genestealer Cult Acolyte Hybrids to get something in the same ballpark of fragile but killy.

>>51987185
Update/bump to keep thread alive, I'm taking a break from units and wrapping up the army-wide special rules.

>>51989336
what are you're thoughts on the often suggested synapse granting FnP idea.

>>51989509
I've gone back and forth on that a few times. Older versions of my codex project had it grant a 6+ FnP, later on I removed it after some playtesting.

Currently I'm working around the idea of one of the psychic trees letting you target any Tyranid in synapse range regardless of how far they are with blessings, and you can use higher warp charge versions of the powers to target multiple units at a time, with Hive Tyrants knowing every power in the tree by default and getting a bonus to manifesting them. In this manner you can use Catalyst to give FnP to whatever needs it as long as you have a synapse creature - any synapse creature - nearby, and I think that represents it beautifully.

>>51989670
If nothing else changed, the 6+FnP for non-synapse and 5+FnP for synapse creatures really worked out when I tested it. What do you think of making rules for the "out of bullets" thing that's in the Apocalypse Endless Swarm formation?

>>51989885
That should probably stay in Apocalypse, but when I get around to filling out the decurion Formations if I don't have any ideas I might fit something like it in.

>>51907064
Bump for glory

>>51932228
CTRL-F, mate...

>>51907064
Give them rules for deploying and acting on their own so that they can become a true NPC race.

>>51992705
Jokes aside, if you ignore the 'Shoot The Big Ones' rule and deploy nothing but models with Instinctive Behaviour you could pretty much do that given the way I'm writing them.

>>51989336
>>51989670
>>51989885

one of the things I thought might be neat is if synapse granted an additional bonus depending on the synapse creature.
Warriors just do basic fearless since they're the pleb troops of synapse. But say tervigons also give 6+fnp woty their synapse and Maleceptors give admantium will and tyrants give preferred enemy. or something like that.

>>51993049
I've thought about it, but I don't like this idea because it encourages players bunching all of their synapse creatures tightly together in a little deathball (obviously not a "true" deathball since they're separate units but you understand what I'm saying) to stack all the buffs. The way Tyranids operate from a fluff perspective is that synapse range is synapse range is synapse range - if you're in it, you're connected to the entire swarm, and receiving all of the benefits that entails. There should be no distinction between Tyrant synapse range and Warrior synapse range and so on.

However, what could work, is if certain models are alive, they confer benefits to all other nids in synapse range - killing them off, OR killing off the synapse creatures to cut the connections, will slowly weaken the swarm as a whole or otherwise disrupt it from sharing the buffs.

>>51993090
>However, what could work, is if certain models are alive, they confer benefits to all other nids in synapse range - killing them off, OR killing off the synapse creatures to cut the connections, will slowly weaken the swarm as a whole or otherwise disrupt it from sharing the buffs.
this is good. better than my original version.

>>51978313
while i think many if not most units would be fine if they're just cheaper.
a blanket cost cost reduction isn't the way to go about it. plus 25% is to much for most IMO 10-15% should be enough where a discount is needed.

Bump limit reached. I would say let's make a new thread but I'm going to be busy this weekend so I won't be back to post until at least Monday. I'll try to work out a few more conceptual kinks with my codex until then, and I'll post some previews at that point.