/swg/ Star Wars General

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How have you supported the Empire today, /swg/?

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>>52017149
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7bmXywWus8
The same way anyone supports Empire Today: through the power of dance.

>>52017364
God, I forgot how terrible and wonderful Galactic Dance-Off was.

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>>52017556
I'm still holding out for a sequel. I need more Star Wars dancing in my life.

>>52017556
I'm Han Soloooo

Hey, Star Wars D20 rpg nerds!

In "Starships of the Galaxy" it mentions the number of slips that are allowed to be used in constructing a ship. It also mentions that Starforge Station (huge size station, 6000m long) has a "small" shipyard with 25 slips.

I can't seem to find out how many slips a station can have based on it's size anywhere else.

Any ideas how many slips a Fine, Diminutive, Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, Huge, Gargantuan, or Colossal space station would have?

>>52017708
If a small statio have 25 slips, i'd go with -5 for every size smaller than "Small" and +5 for each size bigger. I have no idea what the official line is but that would be my on-the-spot ruling if i was a GM

For the FFG rpgs, how should I balance the combat encounters if one of the PCs is a combat monster and the others have little to no combat skills? Should I try to force a 1v1 between the fighter and a roughly equal foe?

>>52017364
What skills would be needed for a dance check?

>>52017149
My players killed a jedi master and took his padawan captive.
One of the players wants to take the padawan as his own apprentice.

Oh they also lead a successful boarding party onto a mon calamari cruiser and disabled its hyperdrive and ensured its capture by imperial forces.

>>52017574
now I want Jedi Academy Persona

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>>52018313
Funnily enough, FFG's Rebel Alliance somehow hired Chie.

Why is it so hard to find a game for EotE? Even on Roll20 there's barely any games, and of those few even fewer are run by literate people. Is there another way to get into a game?

>>52018404
Why don't you run a game yourself for a couple of friends?

>>52016890
>>52018404
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/70939/ffg-star-wars-vermillion-eclipse

Not EotE but it is FFG SW, need players.

If i wanted to run a high speed low drag type Clone commando or ARC trooper game, what would be the best system for it?

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>>52016890

AoR Engineer splat just got announced.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/3/3/fully-operational-1/

>>52018438
GURPS

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>>52018438
AoR with a modified Duty table. Here's an Imperial-flavored one if you're setting it during the GCW.

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>>52018450
>Bith

Nice

>>52018450
IEDs when?
Hover technicals when?
Imperial predator droids when?
COIN Troopers when?

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>>52018713
>COIN Troopers when
When you're fighting the Rebellion, every trooper is a COIN trooper.

>>52018432
no exp with ffg sw
can I learn in 40 minutes and pkay?

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The music, the visuals, the Defender. The latest Rebels episode gave me actual shivers while they were in the Nebula, it all worked together very nicely.

I can also see a theme XMG mission chasing a probe or escaping TIEs.

Best episode of the season so far.

>>52019031

And this, Kuat engineers, is why you put point defenses on your largest ships.

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>>52019031
How are those incredibly slow Y-wings not also being fried?

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>>52019031
Don't forget based Vander!

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>>52019078
Plot armour

I'd love a Armada style campaign box with a pile of new pilots for ships, Ezra Y-Wing? Yes please. Ashoka A-Wing.

Soon?

>>52019078
>incredibly slow Y-wings
I hate you

>>52019174
The ones in that webm aren't flying anywhere near the top speeds we see in the OT. Compared to film Ys, they really are pretty damn slow.

>>52019183

I mean, they fly end to end of two whole star destroyers in a matter of seconds - that's pretty fast.

>>52018830
Well, nogaem tonight, unfortunately, planning on tomorrow now. But, provided you're literate, you can learn real quick.

>>52019031

Rebels does some pretty sweet shit every once and a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydIaUx84HWs

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>>52019165
I'd like FFG to milk the Legends merch train a bit more. The Filoni-verse has been pushed hard enough already and Legends is still loaded with easy merchandising opportunities.
>Bacta War box
>Wraith Squadron box with Lieutenant Kettch
>Old Horton Salm with native EPT
>Hobbie with a native EPT
>Young Wes in a Y-wing
>Keyan Farlander in his Yavin Y-wing

>>52019272
Jesus, I'd buy almost everything in that. Don't give FFG ideas.

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>>52019292
>Maarek Stele Missile Boat
>Rebel Baron Fel T-65
>Turr Phennir TIE Defender
>Ace Azzameen in Otana, Sabra, and a Rebel letter-wing
>Mara Jade Z-95
>Rebel and Scum Mara Jade crew cards
>Sienar Skunkworks TIE construction kit
>Ugly creation kit
>R-41 Starchaser
>T-wing
>Supa Fighter
>Fookin' Pinooks
Fucking when, FFG

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>>52019031
>>52019078
>they just sit there as a nebula wipes out their power
>they don't shoot at the y-wings
>the y-wings don't get vaporized by the star destroyers or the nebula itself
>just a few bombs have a big impact on an entire star destroyer

And this ISN'T supposed to be a shitty joke of a scene?

>>52019353

You're a shitty joke. You're hardly even worth responding to at all with how terrible you are.

I mean, seriously, you're in /swg/, and you have a criticism that ISDs can't hit a snubfighter with their battleship-sized emplacements? It's 100 years too early for you do be here. Go back to the beginning and start again.

>>52019376
>>52019353

Also, you're clearly blind, so make sure to get some materials for the visually impaired when you study up.

>>52019353
>WHAT THE FUCK WHY DID ONE A-WING TAKE OUT A SUPER STAR DESTORYER????
>THIS SERIE SIS SHIT FUCK

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>>52019376

>>52019353
Get lost loser

Speaking of point defense, ISD-IIs are also supposed to be able to carry 72 TIEs each. I haven't seen the episode yet, so what were those 144 TIEs doing?

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>>52019397
>an SSD's shield generators going down due to an unexpected shield generation explosion then an A-Wing getting shot down and happening to fly kamikaze style into an SSD bridge in a moment of sheer luck for the rebellion that results in the Executor's destruction
>is comparable to two y-wings whipping an ISD with bombs

>>52019427
>Empire leaves its ass open for the 900th time and you're surprised

I bet the scene in Rogue One triggers you too

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>>52019353
>>52019410

Don't bother arguing with NuDisneyfags or Rebelsfanboys.

>>52019376
>>52019391
>>52019397
>>52019404

as you can see they're not exactly the sharpest tools in the shed.

>>52019410

I don't know if we're at the II ISDs yet, but yeah, the ISDs are clearly holding back by not launching fighters. This is pre Scariff even though, so their unparalleled arrogance is to be expected. They only had a disabled Ghost to capture, and then two Ys show up. I can almost imagine the senior officers going "you want to launch fighters for that?"

>>52019397

Don't engage. He's clearly not actually paying attention to what the fuck is going on - he's either a retard or baiting.

>>52019452

Hey, fuck you man, trying to make this about canons. This is what I mean that people need to unlearn and go the fuck back to basics. How many fighter kills do ISDs get in X-Wing? I can tell you the intentional number is very small.

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>>52019490
Nah, fuck you leatherman. It sucks any time Rebels is brought up in /swg/ or the /co/ thread. The Rebels posters circlejerk about how awesome their DisneyXD cartoon is, which is fine, like it if you want, but the split second anyone levels any criticism toward it (or any non-positive comment) they go batshit crazy like you've insulted their personal dignity.

I'm tired of Rebelsposters showing up then attacking anyone who doesn't like Rebels or who makes any kind of negative quip about Rebels.

>>52019526
I'm tired of shitposters like you so the feeling is mutual buddy.

>>52019031
Is that a fucking supernova? Fucking sweet.

>>52019546

I think it's more like a CME

>>52019526
You're lost I think. These aren't the X-Wing forums.

>>52019554
CME?

>>52019541
>>52019594
The Rebels megathread is two boards down.

If you haven't noticed, this is /swg/, a general for general discussion of general discussion.

Niggas are dense.

>>52019609
Coronal Mass Ejection.

>>52019609

Coronal Mass Ejection. It's like a star hocking a loogie of plasma from it's top layer.

The Ys torps agitate the nebular gases of the stellar nursery and cause big jets of plasma and EM radiation to fountain out. Kinda like how Ion weapons are supposed to work, actually. An actual supernova would be an event like which formed the nebula - where an entire star basically explodes like a cosmic grenade.

>>52019353
>>52019452
>>52019427

If you watch the episode, the Y-wings don't attack the ISDs at all, because that's dumb.

They ignite an entire nebula using bombs, which itself destroyed the ISDs. They have their shields at full, expecting such and are likely going full speed to outrun it.

I don't think they once shoot the ISDs.

>>52019645
You're a fucking idiot you know that?

>>52019700
And finally, I'm fairly certain both ISDs will survive this encounter with not much more then scratched paint and the pride of the officers hurt a lot.

What it did was disable a tractor beam allowing the Ghosts and both Ys to escape in the confusion.

>>52019700

They use Ion cannons and some proton bombs to fuck up an Imperial Light Cruiser earlier, though.

Ys kill cap ships... suck ass at killing other snubfighters. Especially prototype superfighters. Goddamn imperial R&D.

>>52019717
>>52019541
>>52019442
>>52019404
>>52019397
>>52019391
why are you people so butthurt

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>>52019726
>suck ass at killing other snubfighters

>>52019743
Because retards who don't know shit about Rebels or even SW come in here and start bitching over a webm that they have no context for.

>>52019726
6 (I think) Ys with support taking out a light crusier is more than fine IMO.

>>52019786
But he has a point. Even if the webm is out of context why do people get so defensive about Rebels?

Someone once talked about how they thought the voice acting was pretty bad in Rebels several threads ago, but it stirred up a shitstorm with Rebels fans IIRC getting really furious that someone would diss their show.

Like, geez, calm down. It's just a cartoon.

>>52019771

I submit sir, those squint pilots must clearly be drunk. Or that Y pilot is some kind of devious, squint hunting demon bouncing them out of a sun or something.

>>52019804
I think its its fandoms man
Like I watch the show every week but I know its got its flaws.

Hardcore fandoms ruin shit
People start basing their identity around something, so when its insulted, theyre insulted.
Talk to anybody in the 501st
You will probably wish you hadnt

>>52019686
>>52019687
Ah, makes more sense, thanks!

I don't know why people babble on about point defense screens when the actual films have... no visual indicators of them at all.

>>52020341

Trench Run.

>>52020362
You're saying an entire screen of HTLs/MTLs firing at fighters they can't hit is a point defense screen?

Speaking of Rebels

https://youtu.be/6Ez3y6BZGrk?t=4m5s

Cue more arguing.

>>52017149
I painted Darth Vader's TIE Advanced, gave it a new red and black paint scheme.

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>>52020657
Seems like FG dumped a ton of shit on them. Raider in cannon soon? Nope.

>>52020693

Man, I'd bet that Lucasfilm books conference rooms to play X-Wing and Armada. The place is full of fans and dedicated hearts.

Also, I bet animators and writers love being able to push little models around in meetings in addition to like storyboards and stuff.

>Raider in cannon soon?

I mean, Empire's getting schooled pretty hard by fighters. Imagine though, if instead of an Arquitens flying with the Defender - it had been a dedicated anti-fighter platform like the Raider I? Accurized heavy laser turrets, huge solar arrays for extra power, missile tubes loaded with anti-fighter munitions, forward ion and turbolaser cannons...

>>52020788
Luckily you can play the RPG the right and realistic way, IE having ISDs pretty much vaporize anything within a mile of themselves.

Rebels can stay forever upset.

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>>52020811

Eh, it's like 5D difficulty to hit a SIL 3 fighter with those fukehuge turbolaser batteries. Minions running those guns probably shouldn't be that good, especially vs talented pilots.

On the other hand, in the RPG your Imperial officers can be sane, and can launch fighter screens right away rather than continue to treat fighters as annoyances. Also FFG has Lancer frigate stats, so you can just ruin your fighter teams days with MOAR QUAD-LASERS.

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>>52020850

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>>52018713
>when?
SW is WW2 era really, back when the solution to shit was to carpet bomb and drop artillery on everything that bothers you.

>>52019031
Definitely one of the more visual episodes they've done, the space scenes looked really good, those exploding nebula hits to the ISD's where pretty spectacular
Plus, brings back the TIE 'give em the D' Defender

>>52020850
Yup yup.

There's a reason the Rebellion's never won a straight-up fleet engagement without overwhelming numbers, an ambush, or blind luck/"Force" intervention. The Imperial Navy could conventionally mop the floor with them several times over.

Half the time they only win because of the token retarded arrogant Imperial officer who thinks he shouldn't do anything because the Rebels could never hurt him even as they blow up his ship because he took the shields down because ego.

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>>52020788
I wonder if Zahn, Stackpole, Allston, KJA, and Paul/Hollace Davids ever played RPGs and flight sims together. Wraith Squadron and Jedi Prince feel like the exact kind of bullshit a tabletop party would get involved in. And judging by his experience with writing RPG source books, Allston would have probably been a god-tier GM.

>>52020904
It's heavily theorized that Rebels is Filoni's old Star Wars campaign.

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>>52020904
>>52020963
Zahn was given a lot of D6 RPG books when he started writing for them back around the Thrawn era, Sam Witwer also gave Filoni a lot of his old D6 RPG books as well when he started voice acting for them. So that's sort of why you see stuff like Interdictor cruisers, weird arse TIE variants and Inquisitors popping up in rebels.

So while they might not play them, they do know about the RPG's

>>52021014
And Pablo started his Star Wars career writing d6 books for WEG

>>52021062
Yeah he started sometime in the early-mid 90s I think, after that he did quite a lot of writing and editing for various SW stuff over the years.
He'd be fun to be in an RPG game with.

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>tfw Paul and Hollace Davids will never co-GM for your tabletop group

>>52021145
Except that every imaginative idea you run by him, he'd say some variation of "did we watch the same movies?" and look down his nose at you.

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>>52021336
>"Aaron, assuming he could be educated up to Alliance fighter pilot standards, an Ewok couldn't even reach an X-wing's controls."
>"He wears arm and leg extensions, prosthetics built for him by a sympathetic medical droid. And I'm anxious to play him, Pablo."
>"Please tell me you're kidding."
>"Of course I'm kidding. Here's my actual character sheet. It's Wes Janson, Wedge's gunner from Hoth."
>"I'm going to get you, Allston."
>"Yub yub, Commander."

>>52021401
> implying he wouldn't allow it
This man okay'd helicopter-sabres, you think he's scared of letting an Ewok fly a spaceship?

To be fair, they KO'd the Defender with an anti-capital ship weapon. And I'm not sure it died from that.

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How to run a star wars game? I was thinking basically running a fantasy game with sci fi names. Do the new ffg games let you do that?

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>>52021513
>Fantasy game with sci-fi names
Basically. Take a samurai movie, add space.

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>>52020657
>cast playing xwing

>>52017364
Whenever people complain about Disney I just remind them that this was cannon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVWge95xJ3U

>>52021666
>Hating Empire Today
How does it feel to hate fun, Satan? It was never officially Legends canon anyway, even if it is canon in my heart. It was obviously just there for laughs.

>>52021666
>cannon

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>>52021658
>yfw you'll never play X-Wing with star wars actors
it hurts

>>52017856
A rival and a few minions. Be sure that the rivals skills are a step or two behind the combat monster. Be sure to give the non-combatants more opportunities for cover and allow for them to use non-combat skills such as hacking while under fire.

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Shouldn't imperial officers know not to drive the AT-ATs so close to each other?

>>52022434
They're parked.

>>52021666

Bobba had to do /something/ in between pursuing bounties, training, and brooding about his dead father.

>>52020890
There arent enough atmospheric oriented vehicles, like the Snowspeeder and this thing. I'd like to see a few hovertanks for once

>>52022446
There will come a day when I will not love this picture, but today is not that day.

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>>52021336
I can use the opportunity to bust out and practice my fucking awful Spanish on him though, so there will be tears running down the nose as well.

>>52022857
There's a fairly severe lack of proper speeder tanks and even just simple, motorised infantry vehicles that scoot around, don't necessarily have the armour or firepower of a walker.
But have their uses- even if its just stuff PC's will steal and bodge up some guns on it with their engineering skills, then crash it through an imperial picket line.

>>52022857
>a few hovertanks for once
>a few
>for once
Were you not around when Empire at War and the original Battlefront games were released ? Or The Phantom Menace, for that matter?

>>52023073
I meant to say it'd be nice to see huge numbers of hovertanks all the time

>>52023178
You and I have a different definition for "nice."

>>52023178
There's been a hovertank in every other/second movie starting with TPM.

>>52019272
>Keyan Farlander in his Yavin Y-wing
His de-stress ability, an elite talent slot, and 7 pilot skill would be amazeballs good on a Y-wing.

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>>52019804
It's hard to make a point stick with others when a poster is clearly lacking any context or details of the thing being criticized, not to mention finishing off the post with a vintage UHHH DOTARDS EXPLAIN THIS?? and following up with half of one's [disapproving reactions] folder.

Don't excuse shitposting, and if you're the original guy samefagging then please stop shitposting.

>>52018282
Coordination, definitely.

You could probably argue to make it a charm check, though, depending on the kind of dance.

>>52019804
I don't even watch the show, I just watched the webm, and that guy was just factually wrong with what he said (that the Y-wings shot the ISDs).

We're all Star Wars autists here, and the dude was objectively wrong in a thread full of autists. Of course he's going to get savaged like the stupid fuck he is.

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>Forged in Fire has been out for awhile
>MediaFire still has the horrible abridged version

>No Disintegrations came out pretty recently
>Full PDF on MediaFire

>>52024366

https://mega.nz/#!Qg8jgRZK!IjKRSqGC_07_kSz6cmq6Z3uGWqUPc__b1h1IT0NQoDM

Dunno if it's been put in the big mediafire collection. But that's it on mega

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any good rules of thumb for Hyperspace travel times?

>>52024383
THANK YOU. I've been looking everywhere for this.

>>52024438

Long enough for it to be meaningful, but fast enough that they arrive just in time.

What're some decent non-Dengaroo/bro-bots scum lists these days?

Hoo boy, I'm looking at AoR's core rolebook and the thing about the dice and I have no fucking clue what I'm reading.

>>52026247
I've had a lot of fun with Asajj/Fenn/CDV lately. Dat mobile firearc tractor beam is hella nice

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v4!s!219:197,189,-1,-1:44:28:;212:188,-1:43:15:;216:170,-1:43:15:&sn=Bounty%20Hunters%20Unite

>>52026247
Parattani is a meta staple. Fenn Rau w/ mindlink, title, autothrusters; Asajj w/ mindlink, latts; and Manaroo w/ mindlink. I won the Mustafar Open with it, 4 other system opens have been won with it, and it's everywhere.

Right now I'm playing with ketsu and asajj, which is pretty fun.

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>>52017364
>>52021666
Am I the only one who wants to see these for the Disney Star Wars films?

What would Kylo Ren's song be? Something ridiculous, I think.

>>52026605
"I Can Show You The World" but rewritten slightly into "I Can Show You The Dark Side"

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>>52026283
What thing about the dice? The success/failure/advantage/disadvantage thing?

It's actually really easy once you start rolling.

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>>52026625

>>52026675
>>52026625

What a fucking joke of a game.

>>52026625
>>52026675
Yeah, it seems more like one of those 'you get used to it' sort of thing.

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>>52026605
>What would Kylo Ren's song be?
HEY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5enKjKAlQU

>>52026709
There's nothing wrong with making a game that doesn't have a massive list of statistics and modifiers to memorize.

"Add up all the good die and bad die to find out what happens" works for a game that wants to mimic the swashbuckling, almost playful, action sequences of the Star Wars films, and if you want your characters to have a real challenge, just add the Vicious modifier to every weapon.

>>52026675
>>52026625
holy shit what the fuck
are they overdoing it for the joke or is this the real mechanic?

>>52026898
They're overdoing it, but it's pretty spot on for how the mechanics actually work. It's easier to learn by playing rather than reading how, plus the comic was pretty dumb too.

>>52026966
i googled a few examples of the dice pools in action and yeah, the comic really does a poor job of explaining it.

shouldn't be presented as separate, concrete things, just a bunch of symbols rolled together that can be fluidly interpreted.

My local gaming spot passes these out every star wars night because the books really don't explain well a system that takes ten minutes to learn if you have other people playing.

You look down at your character sheet, it has green and yellow blocks for every skill, you roll dice that correspond with the blocks on the skill you're rolling vs how hard the task is, you check if you succeed.

>>52021513
>>52021537

What is the goblin or orcs of the setting?
I get the Empire is supposed to be the EVIL EMPIRE but they aren't the orcs right?

>>52027080
Orc: Gamorrean
Goblin: Kowakian Monkey-lizard

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>>52027080
Gamorreans could probably fill the role as porks. Mandalorians also love color-coding everything, wage war for fun, and occasionally speak in funny accents, so they could be construed as orks.

>>52027080
Trandoshans or Gamorreans if you're looking for savage militants, indiginous pop if you want generic monster types (tusken raiders etc), Hutts if you just want non-empire scum faction

>>52017149
Down with the empire! In with the NEW REPUBLIC! FOR ALDERAAN!

>>52026709
How so?

>>52027161
Bro you're doing it wrong, what you gotta do is this:

>>52026709
What a fucking joke of a post.

So, the TIE Striker... is it actually any good? Pure Sabacc seems nice, but with only 2 Agility that ability could be lost quickly.

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>>52021513
If you want to run a fantasy game with sci-fi names, why don't you use a fantasy system and just change the name of things?

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Once again Thrawn the supposed genius failed again and let me guess next episode he will say it was all a part of my plan. Also how fast are sw ships in space since they seemed to cross that nebula awfully fast despite nebulae being lightyears across and sw ships being slower than 747s in atmosphere?

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>>52027764
>How fast are SW ships in space
It's space, so there's no real set top speed. Here's a speed chart from RotJ to show starship on-screen speeds relative to one another, though.

>slow in atmosphere
Star Wars writers are weird about it. Without shields active, even the fastest starfighters will only approach transonic speeds in atmo. With shields, they get faster but actual top atmo speed with shields active is never specified in nucanon or Legends.

>>52027764
>Once again Thrawn the supposed genius failed again
>the rebel fleet is ready to strike as a whole
>he has a spy to feed false info to
>he is close to having the location of Chopper Base
>failed

I bet you think Thrawn in the EU single handedly defeated the New Republic in one push and brought the Emperor back to life with a kiss.

>>52027587
It's a pretty solid ship. Fragile, but crazy maneuverable. Named pilots are good, generics are a bit pricey. Pure hits like a truck but is a glass cannon, so plan on him throwing 4 or 5 dice once like a living missile. Countdown is troll tier, especially with Yorr. Duchess is a solid pocket ace.

>>52027841
Never heard of him before rebels. Just tired of everyone wanking this guy like he's Ender Wiggins or Paul Atredies or some shit.

>>52027664
Its not that I want fantasy with sci-fi, it's that Star Wars is Science Fantasy the original movies were classic heroes journey. I just want to deliver that kind of story to my players.

>>52027888
>Never heard of him before rebels
Well there's your problem

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>>52027888
>Never heard of Thrawn
Go educate thyself. Then, and only then, may you come back.

>>52027915
There isn't really a 1:1 analogue for orcs in Star Wars.

Star Wars is space fantasy, knights and wizards and princesses and dashing rogues, but it's got more in line with King Arthur than it does with Tolkien.

>>52027128
Trandoshans hired by the Empire to deal with Rebels/scum out on the edges of the Empire and save them the effort/money?

You know what, what does /swg/ think of Exar Kun?

>>52027975
Gotcha. I don't know where people came with the orcs question in the first place, even if it is a good question. I was thinking about the players basically dealing with stuff like an evil pro-Imperial count overthrowing the princess of some edge world, and the like.

>>52027942
>>52027973
If he's anything like rebels Thrawn than consider me not impressed. Aizen had a more effective keikaku than him and only lost to Bullshit ex machina.

>>52027973
To be fair, not many people are able to write him well. Zahn, his creator, is the only one who's gotten him right.

>>52028002
And that sort of thing actually works well (and there's something kind of similar that happens in the Darth Vader comic that Marvel put out after they got the license - look up the Shu-Toran War.

>>52027888

Oh, yeah, well, there's your problem. Original author Zahn treated him as competent, calm, tactical mind and with deep insight from places other imperials showed no signs of thinking in. Only later fans and authors treated him like an infallible tactical genius who strikes terror in the hearts of rebel scum with his impossible tactics - even though obviously he lost at the end of the Thrawn Trilogy.

Some friends and I are getting into IA skirmish to try and get ready for our first worlds. We have no aspirations to choke on.

How do I rebels?

>>52028036
Consider that in the original Thrawn Trilogy he doesn't win every fight. He instead do something that very few imperials do: he retreats to fight another day when others would have fought to the bitter end to no gain.

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>>52028015
>Aizen had a more effective keikaku

>>52028214
>>52028036
His other strength is his ability to maximize unorthodox tactics with depleted resources and keep the NR guessing. For instance at Sluis Van, he used a bunch of mole miners he stole from Lando that were re-purposed as boarding craft that he filled with spacetroopers in order to hijack a bunch of capital ships in drydock. The only reason that he lost that battle was because Lando was at the battle, recognized the miners, and was able to override them and essentially have the miners destroy/incapacitate heavily the ships in the yard, making the battle kind of a wash.

He also attacks "through" planetary shields by having cloaked vessels sneak through first and then coordinate with the ISDs bombarding to make it look like he can punch through planetary shields.

Aside from competence, Thrawn's true genius was in making himself look more powerful than he actually was in order to gain a psyops advantage.

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Why does Lucasfilm still pretend Jedi (except Luke) are the good guys?

>>52028720

Rebels thrawn even plays the psy-ops game a little - though it might be more subtle.

There's no tactical advantage to the giant chimera carved into the underside of his command ship - but if you look up and see the Chimera staring back at you, you know exactly who you're dealing with. Same as the unit patches on all his soldiers.

>>52028772
Because even at their worst, most Jedi are misguided but still trying to do good?

>>52028805
>trying

Ah, I understand now. You're one of those people that believe someone who intended to do good but caused bad is justified because their heart was in the right place.

I think TS Eliot had it right. “Most of the evil in this world is done by people with good intentions.”

>>52028852
Before the war, the Jedi actively tried to help out those who needed it.

They were the good guys.

>>52028805
So much good that their golden years were marked by bloody wars until a Sith of all people brought temporary peace across the galaxy.

>>52028864
You mean actively tried to help out those who they THOUGHT needed it.

>>52028852
Can you name an actual reason for thinking why the Jedi are bad without resorting to Traviss-tier arguments?

>>52028874
A single war that was CREATED by said Sith.

The last actual war that the Republic had was with the Mandalorians over half a millennia before the Clone Wars, and that was centuries after the last war before that.

>>52028901
Before I do, I'd like you to set a frame of reference so that you don't pull any

>uhhh not canon lol

Are we limited to strictly the films? Is EU okay? Star Wars comics?

>>52028874
Star Wars writers are usually contractually obligated to include a Star War in their stories. Obi-Wan may have talked about maintaining generations of peace but the target consumer audience doesn't give a shit about that. Star Diplomacy doesn't sell.

Nucanon's Old Republic era isn't thoroughly explored. The Legends OJO and Republic had been around for 25,000 years, and most of the wars detailed in OR-era Legends works lasted decades at best. Mathematically speaking, the amount of war that went on is a drop in the pond compared to what are assumed to be millennia of peace.

>>52028912
All sources are fine.

Listen, I'll be the first to admit that the Jedi had serious problems, but to pretend that they were somehow bad guys because of them is kind of outrageous.

>>52028931
>Star Wars writers are usually contractually obligated to include a Star War in their stories. Obi-Wan may have talked about maintaining generations of peace but the target consumer audience doesn't give a shit about that.
It's because people decided to make stories set in the Old Republic rather than leaving it vague, and also the writers have to make every war galactic scale because nobody likes smaller scale personal stories about a pair of minor powers at war with interesting and different characters and vehicles and stuff.

>>52028875
>see pirates attacking people
>not helping out
>see people starving
>not sending aide to help them
>see injustice
>not correcting it

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>>52028864
>jedi
>the good guys

When will this meme end?

>>52028995
>see lions attacking gazelle
>not helping out
>see people starving
>send them aid
>they reproduce now
>now more people starving
>need to get more aid somehow
>see "injustice" as deemed by your social and cultural standards of what justice is
>"correct" another planet/race/society for not falling in line with yours

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>>52028772
The same reason they try to pretend the Empire is the bad guy.

>security, order, stability, economic growth, military might, and humanity first
>vs anarchy, chaos, disorder, disunity, stagnation, a scattered military, and support for aliens

There isn't one "good" thing about the Rebellion. They also attack civilians, they also commit acts of terror, and they also have selfish and incompetent leadership. The only "good" thing they have is that the main heroes side with them. If the main cast stayed neutral, there wouldn't be one reason to fight the Empire and not the Rebellion.

And before any assblasted Rebel mentions Alderaan, remember that everything was peaceful and fine until Rebels started attacking Imperial forces, installations, and civilian targets, and then lied about Alderaan not supporting the Rebellion which it did in huge amounts.

The Empire is the good guy. Take the Imperipill.

>>52028901
>>52028912
Death-worshipping midichlorian cult who willingly attempt to impose their will on the behavior and societies of other races for their own perceived notion of a greater good without taking the opinions of others into consideration seems pretty bad to me.

>Oh we know what's good and evil because we have special shit in our blood that literally lets us detect "evil"
>Trust us goys

>>52029050
Ah, so if you're racist, the Empire is good for you. Good to know.

>>52029078

Not even that, really. You can be as racist as you want and the empire will still run you over whenever it suits their fucking whims. That's how Palpatine runs things.

Anons, tell me about your Original Trilogy era campaigns where you have atleast one force sensitive character in the party and the rest are not. Basicly your classic WEG pileup. How does that work out? How do you avoid the "jedi" hogging the spotlight? Is joining up with the rebellion inevitable?

>>52029078
Finn was a black stormtrooper.

I'm not sure how racism applies to the Empire. If they were actually racist WHYT SUPRAMACISS why would they have black soldiers?

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>>52029077
Not to mention
>taking kids at a young age
>putting them through brutal training against their will
>forcing obedience and subservience in every aspect of every jedi's life
>criticism of any jedi masters is punishable
>forcing people to bottle up their emotions and live artificial lives to prevent from becoming evil
>which instead leads to an emotional overload that makes them evil anyway

At least the Sith teach honest with one's self and embracing your emotions, not forcing them away.

>>52029078
>he thinks humans aren't the best race

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>>52029050
>Trying to kill the free market
>Trying to kill free speech
>Trying to take our guns
YAVIN DAY WILL COMMENCE AGAIN, IMPERIALISTS.

>>52029124
Windu was the only reasonable 'Jedi' because he understood that emotions were normal.

Extremism of any form is bad, whether you toot your "this is for your own good" or "this is for my own good" horn.

>>52029077
Death-worshipping? Where the hell do you get that out of anything that we've ever seen about Jedi?

And since when do they actually impose their will and behavior on other societies? They don't force everyone to become monks, they don't force them to study history and religion and culture and law and everything else that the Jedi study.

Yes, I know I'm taking the bait, but it's a boring Sunday afternoon.

>>52029100
>>52029107
Speaking about how the Empire run roughshod over every non-human species in both Legends and canon. Human is human, they don't care. And canon has it actually that while there aren't any actual laws about having to be humanocentric, the vast majority of the leadership is and in order to make your way into power you basically have to be that way as well.

>>52029124
Since when do we see actual brutal training, or the inability to criticize the Masters?

>>52029107
>it's not racist that a white-led and politically dominated organization is okay with using non-whites for cannon fodder.

If Hux, Snoke, Kylo Ren, or Captain Phasma were black, you might have a point.

Also, Empire=/=First Order

>>52029050
>Empire is good boys, dey dindu nuffin
>need mo money fo dem superweapon programs
Do we really have to do this every other thread?

>>52029036
>comparing sentient life to animals
>not helping those in need
Look, that sounds very unchristian

>>52029036
>When the local Jedi helps your neighbor set up moisture vaporators but some water drips onto your property, which violates the NAP, so you have your personal droid army bombard them with white phosphorus

>>52029140
THE EMPIRE'S PUTTING CHEMICALS IN OUR WATER SUPPLY TO TURN OUR WOOKIEES GAY! WAKE UP SHEEEEEEEEEEP!!!!

>>52029162
It's nice to know someone else can understand that point. A lot of Star Wars fans really like to gloss off just how shitty the Jedi Order could be for its individual people.

>>52029164
Yeah, Humanity first. The most dominant and successful race in the galaxy. Is there a problem in being humanocentric?

And brutal training? Nigga, they shoot little kids who can barely articulate words with stun beams and give them laser sword that while meant for training could still severely injure them, and that's just the training for the new recruit younglings.

Whineakin also brings up some valid criticism of the Jedi Council and its laziness and inability to make decisions on pressing matters, yet when he does so they reprimand him and tell him to keep his mouth shut.

>>52029124
>taking kids at a young age
Protecting the children from doing harm to themselves or others by use of the force AND from others who would seek to exploit them.

>>52029164
>emotions are bad, bottle them up
>if you're a good goy you can become a force ghost
>only the Sith deal in absolutes, PS, all Sith are bad absolutely
>Planet Kalee

Also regarding the "non-human" xenophobia, why was based Sheev willing to associate with, oh, Darth Maul, among others.

The Jedi are frankly no more or less "phobic", since you have to have midichlorians to join them. I guess "you have to be born with it for the power to work!!" means their 'racism' is justifiable.

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>>52029180
>building a space station for self-defense and a symbol of power

Fuck the Rebellion for spending so much money to build MC90s. The MC80s were enough. Fucking evil psychos trying to expand their military.

>>52029107
Well, racist against non-humans and non-subspecies-of-human. Rae Sloane, a black lady, is the latest leader of the Imperial Navy in nucanon. Thrawn is blue. Most of the first Stormtroopers were clones of a brown guy. We have no idea who else is under the stormtrooper armor, and some of the extras playing them in ANH looked North African.

>>52029230
The Empire isn't even xenophobic, it's just humanocentric. Humanoid races are welcomed and do just fine. Zabraks, Chiss (A GRAND ADMIRAL CHISS), those seductive angel-like ones, and others. Not only is not a bad thing to put Humanoids first, it's also a blatant lie that the Empire hates all aliens.

>>52029180
The shitposters will keep doing it as long as it keeps getting replies

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>>52029276
i'm noticing a trend here

if you criticize disney canon

or criticize rebels

or post favor of the empire

or post anything some people disagree with

you're called a shitposter

that word does not mean what you think it means

>>52029216
It's almost like the PT OJO were supposed to be seen as the historical, moral, and ideological lowest point of the Jedi Order. They aren't supposed to be regarded as anything other than failures. The one who best represents what the Jedi are actually about is Luke after he discards his lightsaber and lets go of his anger at Endor.

Gentlemen! You cannot fight in here. This is the Star Wars room!

>>52029216
We don't see them using stun beams - at best, they sting a little like the droid that hit Luke, and the laser swords they do use have a training setting that's lower power and can't actually cut anything.

There's not a problem with being humanocentric - until it comes at the cost of the lives and freedom of other species. We know several that have been completely wiped out and several more that have been completely enslaved.

>>52029230
The Jedi actually teach control of emotion, not bottling it up.

The Force ghost thing is something that basically nobody knew about, not even the leadership. We know exactly three who know how to do it, and one of them died before he learned.

The Sith, barring Darth Gravid, were always the ones who struck first. They disagreed with their fellow Jedi, slapped their shit and left, only to come back as creepy motherfuckers who use hate to power their abilities.

Kalee, I'll give you, that one wasn't a good thing.

Palpatine himself isn't xenophobic (as long as they're worth something to him), he just plays it up for others and because it gives him more power. Bu the fact remains that he completely tolerated genocide and slavery of non-humans.

>>52029307
A lot of Star Wars fans are deeply entrenched in the juvenile delusion that there are categorically "good" and "evil" things, and that "good" things can't do evil, because they're "good". To be fair, a large foundation of the fantasy hobby in general is successful from this fact; LotR, Star Wars, etc. Morally grey means having to be critical and think, which can defeat the purpose of escapism.

Sometimes you just want to be justified that "These guys over there are the bad guys, so it's okay to lightsaber them wholesale".

>>52029307

I mean, if you're arguing for the Empire to be the good guys, you either have drank some serious fascist kool-aid, or are shitposting. People just prefer to assume other people are shitposting rather than calling them fucktards.

>>52029360
Palpatine also blew up a human planet, Alderaan. I don't think he gives one insular fuck about anyone or anything.

>>52029391
Technically, that was Tarkin, not Palpatine or Vader. But given that Tarkin was pals with Sheev, I doubt that he would disapprove.

>>52029384
>some serious fascist kool-aid

Not necessarily. Unless you think that Nietzsche was a fascist.

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>>52029371
Hell, even LOTR had morally gray elements. Sauron himself was said to have once aspired to bring true order and peace to Arda, even if that dream had been lost by the Third Age and replaced by megalomania. If the original films too have morally gray moments, I don't get why people hate that.

Is it casualization? Not having to critically think and instead going "LIGHTSABERS ZEW ZEW"? Idunno.

>>52029384
>implying fascism is inherently evil

HERE WE GO BOYS. ABANDON THREAD.

>>52029180
>>52029237
I am going to add this argument to my next EotE game.

Two npcs sitting in a cantina argue at each other about whether or not Alderan had it coming. Then a lame attempt to switch the subject from comically evil super weapon apologetics to jedi hypocrisy ends in a bar room slap fighty brawl that compromises the party's clandestine meeting.

>>52029417

No, but the Empire is straight up fascists, not *actually* Nietzschean, if you have read anything that old Friedrich actually wrote.

>>52029337
Then why is Order 66 played with a tragic song when it should be the complete opposite?

>>52029410
Actually, I doubt it. It's played around with in EU and Disney Canon, but Tarkin may've had dreams of running the Empire himself, which is why Vader was on such a short leash with him and appeared subservient. Palpatine knew he thought he could do a better job and wanted to use that powerlust to make Tarkin do his bidding and empower the Empire, but wanted to make sure he wouldn't try to turn against him. If he did, Vader was close by to give him some lightsaber diplomacy, and Tarkin wouldn't expect it.

The only reason Palpatine would've allowed it is to make Tarkin look worse in the eyes of people so as to hurt his popularity. Otherwise I doubt he would think it necessary or worthwhile destroying a planet with so many Imperial loyalists, even if its government was supplying the Rebellion heavily.

>>52029447
Palpatine was elected, thanks.

>>52029447
Fascism isn't even a "bad" thing on paper.
>strong military, centralized government, autocratic power distribution, citizens benefiting the state so the state can benefit the citizens

People who use the word fascist as an insult or slander usually don't know what fascism means. I'm not saying the Empire is perfect, but "they're evil because they're fascist" is a pretty lame argument.

>>52029461

Because the people who were trying to be good but completely fucked it up being murdered by their friends and partners so Evil McEvilson, of the Pychoville McEvilsons, can become absolute ruler of the galaxy is still very much not a good thing.

>>52029104
The thing about spotlights is that they're on a swivel. Giving one character the spotlight is necessary sometimes, but every player should get a moment to shine.

For as many times as your Jedi saves the day with his magic, have situations where your slicer uses her skills to patch into the Imperial communications network; or where your pilot takes center stage while slingshotting the freighter around a black hole to escape a pursuing bounty hunter.

Every player should understand that give-and-take. It's the mark of a bad GM or immature players to worry about the balance of power levels, rather than the balance of time spent focusing on each PC.

>>52029519
I still don't know about that.

What would Palpatine's end goal even be?

Let's say he rooted out all dissidents and absolutely erased all forms of rebellion against his Empire.

Why? Did he know the Yuuzhan Vong were coming? If so, him preventing their murder of 365 trillion sentient beings during their invasion of the galaxy by slapping around some lefty crybabies would have him seen as a motherfucking visionary hero.

>>52029468
In NuCanon, Tarkin and Sheev are as close to besties as people like that can get. Sheev wants Tarkin and Vader to get along well, too, so he puts them on a mission together.

Tarkin would never backstab Palpatine. Vader still would, 'cause it's the Sith way and he has some Padme-related grievances with the ol' man, but Tarkin would go to the bitter end defending Sheevy.

>>52029307
>show up and post shit for the sole purpose of starting an argument
>get called a shitposter
Gee I wonder why

>>52029548

Dude, Palpatine is just powerhungry. He basically gets off to POWER, UNLIMITED POWER. There is no bigger endgame, he just wants to be in control of everything and wave the biggest dick around.

Which, admittedly, is basically a near-inevitably end-result of the Sith Creed basically being "fuck you, got mine, and if you want yours come and fite me for it".

>>52029568
Then fuck NuCanon for ruining the interesting Starscream dynamic of Tarkin and Palps.

Also, fuck the word Sheev. It peevs me off.

>>52029548
I mean, if we're canonizing the Vong then maybe. Palpatine was the only man himself powerful enough to stand against them, and maybe he did see it coming and wanted to deal with lefty crybabies, though he didn't see Vader betraying him.

>>52029519
>"The galaxy will finally have peace."

yeah what a fucking evil psychopath

>>52029548
>What would Palpatine's end goal even be?
He says it right in the movie: UNLIMITED POWER. He wants power for its own sake. Ruling over a galaxy is fun.

>Muh Vong
Depends on the Legends writer, but later on in the Legends timeline, Han sums it up best. Even if Palps had been preparing for the Vong, he would have left the post-Vong galaxy desolate, empty, and much more difficult to repopulate. More people would have died under him than under the NR.

>>52029548
>What would Palpatine's end goal even be?
>Let's say he rooted out all dissidents and absolutely erased all forms of rebellion against his Empire.
>Why?
Unlimited fucking power, it's very simple
He wanted to be the absolute motherfucking ruler of absolutely motherfucking everything.

>>52029608
>more people would've died under him than the NR

Niggawhat?

The NR was weak at the time of the invasion and woefully underprepared. The only reason they did anything well was because the Remnants joined them with their beefed up military force.

Palpatine would've been able to manage a war with the Vong far more effectively than anyone else.

>of course all of this is assuming the race of evil alien mary sues with no force energy when all living things have force energy are canon

>>52029608
>>52029617
So the Galaxy could have peace, too.

Believe it or not the Sith Order puts some pretty high value on peace and stability. He fractured an unstable and chaotic Republic to form a peaceful and ordered Empire, until the lefties showed up.

>>52029646
Peace =//= Freedom

>>52029646
>Believe it or not the Sith Order puts some pretty high value on peace and stability

"Peace is a lie" is quite literally the first line of the Sith creed.

Sith don't want peace. Sith want to be able to do whatever the fuck they want and stomp on anyone that isn't as powerful as them.

The basic Sith teachings are basically Teenage Psycho-edgy Anarchism.

>>52029634
>far more effectively
Ridiculously wasteful superweapons with obvious weak points were the name of the game for the Legends Empire, remember? And under guys like Palps and Tarkin, the war would inevitably lead to massive amounts of scorched earth, dead civilians, destroyed planets, and ruined galactic infrastructure. The Imperial Remnant may have been militarily competent, but its predecessor was not.

As we see in later Legends works, the Alliance got to reversing the Vongforming process as well. Had the Sith not ruined everything again, the galaxy might have gotten back on the road to recovering to its pre-Vong state.

>>52029646
>unstable and chaotic Republic
Palps and the Sith caused that instability and chaos in the first place.

>>52029480
once, then he extended his powers indefinitely and instated himself as Emperor for life on the back of a failed assassination attempt after the end of a 3 year long civil war.

>>52029691
Peace is a lie, but it's a goal they strive for. When the Sith have ruled the galaxy, it's been peaceful until little shits start rebelling. The Empire was perfect until the Rebellion formed, then everything they criticized, from oppression to terror acts, were done ONLY AFTER they started attacking the Empire and committing terror against them. Rebels ruined a peaceful society.

>>52029699
With Tarkin dead, Palps was smart enough not to use those kinds of tactics. Fuck, if he'd stayed in charge and wiped out the Rebellion, by the time the Vong showed up there'd be several dozen Super Star Destroyers lined up ready and waiting. The Vong would be particles floating in space within minutes of fighting Palpatine's post-Rebellion Empire.

And remember that the Empire is extremely militarily competent, and only isn't when writers need dumb ways to make their heroes seem tougher. Where a single squad of Stormtroopers could roll the floor with a hundred Rebel troopers in actual lore, a book about a Rebel commando could have him killing hundreds with no trouble, because the writer's too lazy to make it any other way.

The Empire is militarily supreme except for when hacks need an excuse to write their fanfiction.

>>52029595
Sheev Sheev Sheev you idiotic /pol/tard.

>>52029699
It's just amusing to me that the Yuuzhan Vong are "bad" for having different values than humanity. The notion that HUMAN concepts of good and evil should be applied to other species, not even from the same fucking GALAXY is hilariously arrogant.

>>52029337
>the PT OJO were supposed to be seen as the historical, moral, and ideological lowest point of the Jedi Order
Do we actually have a source on this? I've tried to make this argument several times to some friends, but it'd be great to have something to actually point to.

>>52029777
Technically they were bad not because their values were different, but because they invaded the galaxy to force those values on to the galaxy at the point of an amphistaff.

>>52029777
>it's ok if you want to kill people and suck their souls to power your ipad Mr. Vong
>I understand we just have different values

Fuck off with your relativism bullshit

>>52029777
They were also "bad" for causing a ludicrous number of planetary genocides. Look up the number of planets destroyed by the Vong. It's absurd. Alderaan being blown up was supposed to be seen as an unprecedented atrocity. Then the Vong showed up and did to Alderaan what Akira Toriyama did to DBZ power levels.

>>52029787

Lucas is on record saying that Qui-Gon was a lot closer to the actual Force than most of the bigwigs at the Jedi Council. Qui-Gon was supposed to be "more right" than the OJO on multiple issues.

Didn't Tarkin (the book) say that Palpy got strong as the galaxy suffered because that causes the dark side to get stronger?

>there are people in this thread right now that actually believe the galaxy would be able to manage itself in a peaceful manner

Order has to be imposed, because it will NEVER be chosen.

>>52029840
Noncanon

>>52029853
What!? Every single war in galactic history was caused by Sith dickery

>>52029798
>>52029801
>>52029813

Again, you're arguing this from a human perspective, with the notion that force and death are "bad things" because they're bad to us. I doubt the Vong ever looked at themselves and went "Are we the baddies?"

They literally enjoy the feeling of pain and are genetically predisposed to having more synapses to experience more of it. Relativism is entirely valid when you're dealing with things that ARE NOT HUMAN.

>>52029879
>including all of those non-Sith wars that Mandalore got into, the Kaleesians, etc

Yeah nah. War still exists without Sith.

>>52029840
Essentially, yes. His eventual goal was subverting the power of the Force and making the Dark Side the actual Force, and becoming an actual god in the process.

>>52029856

The Tarkin book IS canon.

>>52029886
Borsk Fey'lya go and stay go. You blowing yourself up on Coruscant and taking a bunch with them was the best thing you could have done after all your fuck ups giving them ground to kill more people after peace treaties they purposefully broke.

>>52029903
I meant galactic war

>>52029946
That's exactly his point though.

"Muh tolerance" only goes so far until you hit the wall with something like Vong. So now what? All Vong are bad and must be genocided for "the greater good"? This is why the Jedi are hypocrites.

>Genocide is only okay when we say it is

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>>52029776
>everyone i disagree with is a /pol/tard

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>tfw to smart to stay Jedi despite being the single creature to achieve absolute one-ness with the force in all history

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>>52030084
>the solo children

The autism flashbacks. Dear fucking lord. If anyone says the EU being gone was a totally bad thing, just show them the Solo children arc.

>>52029768
>several dozen Super Star Destroyers
It's repeatedly shown that SSDs are highly cost-inefficient and vulnerable to the far, far cheaper option of large numbers of starfighters. Imperial Navy doctrine in general was visibly, clearly flawed, as was the Empire's entire power structure. How could the Empire be more fit to fight the Vong than the New Republic, if it ultimately lost to the supposedly weaker NR? Yavin showed us that Tarkin was a moron. Endor showed us that Palps was also a moron. The Imperial Civil War showed us that Sate Pestage and Ysanne Isard were both morons, and that Zsinj simply didn't have the chops to take charge. Thrawn's downfall demonstrates that he couldn't outplay or out-think the supposedly inferior New Republic. Rogriss failed militarily. Pellaeon, for all his coolness, was too polarizing a figure for many of his peers. Daala was brain-damaged and inconsistently competent. Trioculus would have been fooled by Vong masquer assassins posing as Leia. And who gives a shit about Sate Pestage?

I do, however, agree that Borsk was a fucking moron and that the NR would have been better off without the Bothans.

>>52030077
>claims that evil genocidal empire is good
>claims anyone who disagrees is a lefty
Yeah you are /pol/ all right.

>>52030110
But we're in the nuSolo children arc now.

>Kylo Ren time ha ha

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So hey /swg/, I downloaded all the old Star Wars Adventure Journals and found some old droid models that I've never seen before. Dumping:

H-9PO ("Silverhand")
Type: Duorq 79 Human-Cyborg Relations Droids
DEXTERITY 2D
KNOWLEDGE 3D
Cultures 4D+2, forgery 4D+2, languages 6D, streetwise 4D+2, value 6D
MECHANICAL 1D
PERCEPTION 2D
Gambling 4D, search 3D+2, sneak 5D+2
STRENGTH 2D
Lifting 3D
Technical 1D

Equipped with:
Humanoid body (two arms, two legs, head)
Two visual and audial sensors - human range
Vocabulator speech/sound system
Broad-band antenna receiver
H9 Droid Brain
TranLang I Communication node with 500,000 languages

Move: 8
Size: 1.65 meters tall

Capsule: H-9PO, an ancient protocol droid model came into H'nib's service when his previous owner was killed outside the Farrimmer. The Flivian took the droid in and put him to work. H'nib nicknamed him Silverhand because the fingers of his right hand are silver and are from a newer model droid. H9 accepted the moniker and the job - even though he is not especially fond of this type of work.

>look at that sad-looking face design, it's wonderful.

>>52030126
Except literally all of the scenarios you're giving are a cast of "elite deathsquad storm troopers completely unable to hit single man with a volley of blaster fire in an open hallway"tier.

Ewoks would have been fucking genocided, considering what the Empire did to Kayshyyyk. I really wish the NR and Rebels' victories were shown to be ones of competence as opposed to plot armor luckswing.

>>52030002
Good thing genocide was never committed against the Vong except by elements of NRI at the closing stages of the war, which was stopped by the jedi. Every aspect of the war was defending from hostile foreign invaders, and tolerance was still attempted in offering them peace when we could. After the war the Vong were even allowed to leave in peace or stay, and some did stay and work to undo their own actions. Sure the vong were assholes and a big test of the ideas of tolerance but I think fighting an enemy that wants to kill you until they accept defeat and then allowing them to live is still incredibly tolerant and kinder than what they would have gotten anywhere else.

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>>52030126
>the Empire lost to the NR

Except it didn't, really.

Endor was lost only because Vader betrayed Palpatine. Even with the catastrophic loss of the Executor to pure chance, the Imperial Navy was whipping the Rebel fleet overall pretty bad, and on the ground it wasn't going good either as the Rebels just kept throwing waves of Ewoks at the Imps to try to win. Palpatine would've won had Vader not turned on him.

Then, the Empire still could've won had they not fragmented into hundreds of different microstates and warlords wanting to claim the whole thing for themselves. The New Republic didn't "beat" the Empire because it never fought the Empire. It fought tiny bits and pieces at a time, and most of the damage done to the Empire after Endor was done by itself and its own people fighting each other.

Worth noting that even with the Empire in pieces and the NR taking one piece at a time was still costly and took forever to do. They were dramatically weaker than the Empire and only won by coincidence and luck thanks to Endor.

The Rebellion never won an even, balanced, pitched fight against the Empire, neither did the New Republic. It's simply due to the difference in military power. Even the New Republic had to rely on guerrilla tactics and their plot-armored heroes doing the work.

As for inefficiency, the Executor took on an entire Rebel fleet and won on its maiden voyage. Alone. Without using any starfighters. Expensive, sure, but they got the job done.

>>52030137
>man the empire is so evil racist bigoted genocidal and mean

/leftypol/ is that way.

If lightsabers have to be hand made by Jedi to match their personality where do the completely uniform lightsabers the Jedi temple guards use come from? Do some younglings just happen to make identical temple guard lightsabers and that sets their career path in stone?

>>52030187
pls

>>52030218
this right here. the big rebel wins are due to insane plot armor. fuck in endor's case it was due to marketing. solo was supposed to die and the ewoks were supposed to get wiped out, and only by vader redeeming himself were they supposed to win. lucas said it'd negatively impact toy sales and so he changed it. look it up, it's fucking real. then every eu book with crazy rebels wins were written by star trek fans who thought star wars should be exactly like star trek and have crazy bullshit happen in the heroes' favor every time for muh drama and muh hopeful story.

>>52030232
My guess is, that the Jedi Guards on the temple are Jedi Knights that volunteer to protect the temple and they put in a safe their own lightsabers and construct the ones used in their new station?

>>52030220
>implying the Bothans did not declare Ar'krai on the Vong and will ever stop killing them until they cease to exist

Friendly reminded that the Bothans declared Ar'krai previously on other species, TWICE, and were successful.

>>52030232
Seems that most Temple Guards only have that position temporarily, and get lightsabers made just for that role while theirs goes into storage, like >>52030267 mentioned.

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>>52030215
I don't know why I didn't just take a bigger screenshot instead of typing all of that out.

>>52030223
>The Rebellion never won an even, balanced, pitched fight against the Empire, neither did the New Republic
If you're fighting a balanced engagement against the enemy, something has gone horribly wrong in your planning. And if guerrilla tactics work, then why shouldn't they be used? It's a war, not a sporting match. The Rebellion fought smart and exploited the weaknesses in the Empire's doctrine, infrastructure, and command structure. If the undermanned, underfunded, undergunned, conventionally armed, scattered Rebellion could fracture an empire, then what more a unified, powerful interstellar invasion force with sophisticated, utterly alien biotech bullshit?

Also, see: Adumar, the Fei Hu campaign, Thyferra, the liberation of Coruscant. The Rebellion and early NR could handle conventional engagements when it could gather the resources to do so.

>Endor
Lando and Wedge still made it into the Death Star. Even without Vader's redemption, the Death Star would still have exploded, likely taking Palps with it. Palps' battle meditation then lapses, and Endor continues as normal.

The ground battle wasn't about waves of Ewoks, either. The Ewoks were losing badly. After the initial ambush, they accomplished very little. The ground battle was won because Chewie hijacked an AT-ST.

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This is the future that liberals want.

>>52030320
Good for them. they clearly suck shit at it since the vong live for something like 50 years after in the legends comics, with vong bioformers being allowed to still being around and bioformed vong planets still existing. its almost like that was made up by dumbasses to try and explain why now bothans were good after Borsk died sucking Vong cock and no one paid attention to it. Besides, that was a species within the alliance and we can't judge them for their actions and only appreciate their culture for how different from us it is.

>>52030423
>50 years is a long time for a racial death vow, especially when the Jedi are actively protecting the Vong from them

>we can't judge them for their actions and only appreciate their culture for how different from us it is.

Hahahaha fucking hell

>>52030401
Conventional warfare and unconventional warfare are two wholly different things.

Take the Boer War, for example, something that had inspired parts of the original trilogy. The British Empire was the world's dominant power and its army was superbly trained and equipped. It could've gone toe-to-toe with any major empire's army at that time and won. In the late 1890's and early 1900's, they were supreme.

That's why the Boers didn't fight them conventionally. They didn't fight fair. They exploited their weaknesses to win battles, though when conventional fights happened, they almost always lost and lost quite badly.

Galactic Civil War. Rebel victories are due to unconventional tactics (or plot-armored heroes) and when they go into conventional battles they almost invariably lose without miracles happening (Palpatine's death). To say the Empire couldn't fight the Vong because the Rebels used unconventional tactics that worked is nonsense.

And again, plot armor plot armor plot armor, or Star Trek writers and their fanfiction written from the perspective of someone who didn't want Star Wars to be Star Wars.

>>52030423
>we can't judge them for their actions and only appreciate their culture for how different from us it is.

Then please stop trying to judge the Sith for their actions. Please appreciate their culture for how different it is.

Darth Krayt did NOTHING wrong.

>>52030489
you were just arguing we have to be relative with the vong! what, vong are different enough from us they can't know better and genocide is evil on them but bothans are human enough to know the difference?

Besides, there were still dozens of vongformed planets they could have taken their crusade to and no one would have minded. clearly they didn't mean it as badly as they would have or else we wouldn't have had to turn to the vong to cure vongformed planets cheaply and easily.

>>52030540
He's saying that the alliance are hypocrites for allowing a race of genocidal maniacs into their midst while decrying another race of genocidal maniacs.

>Okay, you guys only wiped out two species entirely, that's below the three species genocide limit

>Fuck the Empire though those guys are jerks that didn't genocide even one race

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>>52030351

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>>52030566
At the end of the day the Empire were the good guys, and the Rebellion's future was shit because they chose said future.

>the Empire once killed a few billion rebel sympathizers because they're evil shits
>so we sure showed them lol so glad we were around to fight off the vong it only cost us 365 trillion sentient lives but at least we beat that mean old evil Empire with its order and laws and strong military but hey remember alderaan amirite

>>52030626
The Empire which enslaved and genocided countless races, and is lead by two evil wizards, is somehow the good guys just because they provided order in some places that there wasn't any? And because they may or may not have had success against the Vong, even though they never had the chance to try their tactics against them?

>>52030502
>Plot armor
Fei Hu was won by a largely irrelevant group of Rebel pilots. The liberation of Coruscant, outside of the initial Rogue Squadron infiltration, was carried out in large part by an army of Rebel redshirts. It's possible to play the battle in Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds and you'll be relying on your artillery and tanks a lot more than on Luke. At Adumar, the battle was won through legitimately superior planning and deception, and was a stand-up fight between the NR (plus united Adumari allies) and Empire (plus Cartann, which was still numerically superior to the other Adumari forces). Plot armor isn't the excuse for every Rebel victory. Even the American Continental Army had the Battle of Saratoga.

And again, the point is that the Vong had plenty of capability to wage unconventional war on the Empire. The presence of masquers and cloakers and other sneeki breeki bullshit is proof that they, too, could fight in the shadows. The Rebels were operating on a shoestring budget with a manpower shortage. The Vong didn't have that handicap.

>>52030626
>Empire were the good guys
Weren't Thrawn and Pellaeon casually discussing them previously genociding an entire race like it was nothing?

>>52030223
>Except it didn't, really.
The empire literally collapsed in the absence of Palpatine because the system he'd established -- rival powers -- can't function without someone in place to ensure all of the factions stay in line.

Please don't be a dumbfuck and try to continue your argument.

>>52030714
>even though they never had the chance to try their tactics against them?

Does the Imperial Remnant count? They fought the Vong.

>>52030762
Fair enough, and the Liberation of Coruscant is a pretty decent story itself. Nothing mary sued or plot armored, just Rebels taking the planet at a monumental cost. Nice, old-fashioned war story IMO. Still, most of their other victories are plot armor. It's undeniable.

>>52030714
>enslaved aliens

Humanity first.

>genocided countless races

Name two.

>evil wizards

Pragmatic Sith wizards. Not all Sith are evil.

>>52030817
Did very well too. It's directly stated that the Remnant played a major role in the Vong defeat.

>>52030813
I never denied the Empire needed Palpatine to run it, but that's why Palpatine shouldn't have died. Had he not died thanks to crybaby rebels, the Empire would've lived on.

>>52030789
>the empire does all of this really good shit for the galaxy and helps it
>but because in one instance some imperials wanted to wipe out an alien race they're wholly irredeemably and unquestionably evil

Not everything is black and white. You "empire posters are shitposters" folks need to understand that. You can have a good group with shades of evil, or an evil group with shades of good. It doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing situation.

Pragmatism, moral grays, ends justifying the means, etc.

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>>52030835
DID SOMEBODY SAY EVIL WIZARDS???!!!

>>52030817
Eh, debatable.

>>52030835
>name two

Geonosians, Lasat. It's also in the Imperial Handbook (which is an in-universe source) as "strategic extinctions." Meaning, of course, they condoned genocide.

>Pragmatic
Palpatine reveled in being evil. He fucking loved it. He created a war to fight against himself and kill countless people just to gain power. That's not pragmatism.

>>52030626

So....we should accept tyranny, on the off-chance that there will be an even greater evil over the horizon?

The Rebellion, whether or not you agree with their methods, was pushing back against a government which had declared numerous races non-sentient purely to enslave them, considered killing thousands protesting against high taxes to be an action worthy of promotion, and actively subverted and overthrew planetary governments that weren't sufficiently enthusiastic in toeing the line.

It was doing these things *before* the Rebellion began, not as a reaction to it.

Also; we cannot predict what the Empire's response to the Vong would have been. It would have been war (of course!), but it would have been a war where the Imperial leadership would have viewed the vast majority of the civilian population to be expendable. If they were willing to destroy Alderaan, they'd like let the Outer Rim burn as a delaying strategy.

>>52030894
That takes us to the age old argument of Freedom vs. Tyranny. Would you rather be free and without law and order, or enslaved and in a utopia? That kinda debate continues on to this day.

>>52030886
The Geonosians were arguably justified, since they were fanatically loyal to the CIS and fanatically opposed to the Empire. There would be no negotiating or integrating them. It was a Hiroshima/Nagasaki situation.

The Lasat, you have a point.

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Wait, wait wait wait guys. Holy shit, look what I just found...

In a short story by Pablo Hidalgo in Star Wars Adventure Journal vol 1, issue 11... there's a fuckin' SQUIB named Mace Windu. This is back in 1996. What the fuck.

>>52030931
Oh shit. Nice find anon.

>>52030931
Mace Windu(Windy) goes back to the earliest drafts of the first movie. A lot of stuff from the prequels is actually old stuff that never made it into the OT but George had on his mind.

>>52030835
>Yavin
Yeah, plot armor. Han growing a conscience at exactly the right time.
>Endor
Palps' battle meditation shit, maybe, but Chewie stealing the AT-ST is plausible. Stealing Imperial tech is the Rebels' MO. Wedge is legitimately that damn good and according to XWA, the Falcon is that damn broken. Fucking autofire bullshit.
>Adumar
Not plot armor. Allston presented the planetary battle rather plausibly.
>Thyferra
Not plot armor, either. Still mostly plausible, with the possible exception of the captured ISD's timely save.
>Zsinj
Not plot armor. The Wraiths have very reasonable skills and accomplishments and still take heavy casualties in the process. Pyrrhic, and plausibly so.
>Fei Hu
Insufficient info. The campaign's details were never elaborated upon.
>Most other victories
Guerrilla ops where the Rebs were able to choose their fights and thus, ensure the conditions favored them. Still actual victories.

>>52030351
That's a big droid.

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>>52030982
>Chewie stealing the AT-ST
Plausible sure, but implausible that the Empire would be completely unable to deal with that threat. Grenades, launchers, the works would've been able to deal with it if it were piloted by a non-hero.
>Adumar
Fair enough. Pretty even fight, even casualties. I have no problem here.
>Thyferra
Ehhhhhh, not sure here. Rogue Squadron has some notorious plot armor, especially in the once-canonical games. Still, victories do happen, so that's fine.
>Zsinj
Not too awful many details on this, other than that it cost the NR quite a lot of men. Fair enough.
>Fei Hu
Agreed.
>Other Victories
Most of the battles of the GCW aren't elaborated on. The dozens we have that are even listed don't compare to the likely hundreds if not thousands of battles that occurred across the galaxy over the four years preceding Palpatine's death.

Still, I doubt it went very well for the Rebellion, since Endor is considered their "last ditch effort" at victory. That in and of itself is pretty telling of how things went overall.

Then of course you have all the footnotes, like poor writers portraying Stormtroopers in an unrealistically incompetent light, minor heroes with plot armor, or just bad writing in general, which the EU had unfortunate heaps of.

>>52030923

You cast the topic in black and white, that you either have total freedom with no law, or a tyranny leads to a utopia.

[Only Sith deal in absolutes]

The issue stands that the Empire could have easily been benign; there was no force left in the galaxy that could oppose them. The 'Order' they imposed was cruel to those that it did not favour (pretty much anyone not in the Core Worlds, and definately any non-humanoid species). And even then, it did not lead to a utopia; in many ways, conditions worsened for many, as taxation increased to fund the expansion of a war machine which served no purpose except to guarantee the continuation of the ruling body.

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>>52030931
Squib are badasses I always knew.

>>52031021
Yeah, he looks like a big black guy who's gonna take your chain, but in droid form.

>>52030964
Thanks. This page is ridiculous. Squib Windu.

>>52030620
>>52030351
>>52030215
>>52030931
Yaay, I love it when people actually talk about the RPGs on here.

>>52031063
I would say that Endor was an all-in scenario because it was pretty much the only shot they'd have at easily hitting Palps. The intel they were given led them to believe that the DS2 would be a lightly defended target, and based on the casualties and Vader's survival at Yavin, Ackbar wanted to make absolutely sure. It probably should have been a simple smash-and-grab.

Problem is, the Bothan spies fucked up spectacularly, which is why it turned into such a desperate last stand. Seeing as Mon Cal hadn't been glassed midway through the war, I could also argue that the Rebellion was actually doing quite well--well enough to keep the Empire from hitting its primary shipyard and planetary holdings, certainly.

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>>52031193
what are the best WEG SW adventures?

I really liked most of Domain of Evil

>>52031216
This is all assuming that even if they did hold on it wasn't due to Palpatine's scheming and gambits within gambits within gambits within gambits. He's got a track record of letting weaker foes win up to a point where he snaps the trap shut and kills or corrupts his target. In this case, he wanted to make Luke his apprentice due to how strong he was in the Force. He nearly did, and nearly killed Luke when he refused, but the one thing he didn't suspect was Vader turning against him.

>>52031226
I've not really looked into the published adventures that much, never really appealed to me.

>>52031216
Not to mention the fact that Rogue One implies that the Empire created Scariff 2.0.

>Death Star to force the Rebel's hand, with extra bait of the Emperor himself
>Imperials defend using shield generator
>Only option is small infiltration team landing on the ground
>Whole Rebel fleet committed

Naturally, the Empire stationed their best troops on the ground instead of slackers, the shields were still up when the Rebels attacked, and the Imperial fleet was waiting in ambush.

Pity the Imperials forgot about the godless cannibal beasts. Were it not for the Rebellion selling their souls to those abominations

>>52031193
Me too, WEGfag. Me too.

>>52031408
Rogue One also had a bad habit of making stormtroopers look stupidly weak.
>Jyn can beat up several on her own hand to hand no problem
>In actuality a single stormtrooper could lay her ass to the floor and end her

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One more gem.

>>52031408
Yub yub, Commander.

>>52031458
Stormtroopers have never been badass in the movies

>>52031533
They're said to be, and they are badass when they're not fighting the main heroes or the Ewoks (and Lucas admitted that was to promote toy sales). They're like James Bond villain henchmen. Professionals, deadly, dangerous, but totally incapable of stopping the heroes because plot armor. Even in Episode VI they have some badass moments, like a Stormtrooper one-hand zapping Leia.

>>52031533
I wouldn't say never, but they're certainly not terrifying as Legends continuity tried to make them out to be.

>>52031458
The stormtroopers have always been mooks that fall prey to anyone with a hint of plot armor. That's been true of the movies, the cartoons, the comics, the games, and the books. The idea that the individual rank & file stormtrooper was some badass is pretty much fanon.

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>>52031458
>Raised from childhood by space Bin Laden
>Weak

>>52031533
They were pretty good on the Tantive IV and Hoth.

>>52031587
Both instances had Darth Vader on the ground

>>52031616
Vader wasn't on the Tantive IV until after it was cleared.

>>52031581
Doesn't matter. Some random chick can't beat up a bunch of elite soldiers, end of story.

>>52031570
That's not a good thing. It's because of writers being shitty. Stormtroopers when written in any amount of realism or canonicity are terrifying, and rightly so. They're elite, well-equipped soldiers strongly devoted to the Emperor and Empire.

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This schmuck looks pretty badass.

>>52031587
>>52031616
Those aren't the only instances of Stormtrooper badassery.

>>52031630
The stormtroopers have only been described as being elite by Palpatine in regards to the troops on the ground on Endor.

The only other time we see them praised as being these terrifying badasses is by Obi-Wan, who claims that their shots that disabled the Jawa Sandcrawler are only so precise because they were made by stormtroopers. Obi-Wan isn't exactly a highly reliable source, given how much he lies to Luke throughout that movie and ESB.

They have precisely two wins in the movies, the Tantive IV and Hoth, and the latter is only a "win" in the sense that they got into the base before the Rebels could all flee. On the other hand, they were winning on Endor after the Ewok traps ran out and before Chewie stole the AT-ST.

But if the vast majority of material both canon and Legends don't show the rank&file troopers as terrifying badasses, maybe it's possible that they're not terrifying badasses? They're the equivalent of the US Marines, not Navy Seals.

>>52031726
Except a lot of material shows them as such, and it's usually only in works that are almost universally hated by fans that they appear as anything less. Also, don't diss Tantive IV.

>numerically superior well-entrenched rebels holding a chokepoint
>numerically inferior stormtroopers still push through and wipe out the initial rebel guards then capture the rest with ease
>elite rebel troops guarding princess leia no less