/btg/ Battletech General!

ha ha butte hold

Reminder that Necromo nightmare is not canon

ilKhan when? Never? Feels like never.

i'll take 'stone is a blakist plant' for 500, alex

4 posts in and every single one is shitposting

>>52002581
t. ROM agent

>>52002581
Don't make me war crime you, sir.

Shitposting is a RWR memetic superweapon that's still going

>>52002366
>Everything points to Stone doing Clarion Call
>Happens one year after he goes to sleep
>When he wakes up he goes "Haha, of course it wasn't me Tucker."

Lear is dead, has been for a long time. Wasn't Victor. My bet is Paladin Mckinnon or some old school Blakists. Since it was originally a Blakist protocol Stone stole.

Would be interesting if some old school deep cover Blakist triggered some of Stone's old Kittery conditioning though and Stone did it without realizing.

>>52002818
What do you think the BT equivalent of 4chan looked like when the Clan Invasion happened?

>>52002856
It's in Handbook Major Periphery States in the history section. It's great. Page 50 is where it starts

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>>52002856
Now you have me imagining dear old Davion sending a reaction to image to the CC after pretty much cutting the house in half and making the St. Ives Compant. Spending millions on Comstar charges for the 31st century of a rare Pepe.

>>52002941
Hanse Davion was the BT version of Donal Trump

>>52002847
>Clarion Call

I've seen this before but am not up to snuff on my Post-Jihad(and Jihad also to be honest) lore, what is it?

>>52002967
The activation of a Super HPG network to disrupt hyperpulse traffic. As opposed to Fortress which uses the same devices but to disrupt interstellar travel.

>>52003114
Should be a reply to this >>52002980

>>52002967

See, that's just not true. When Hanse met Melissa Steiner, he didn't grab her pussy.

Thus, false comparison.

>>52003176
Are you kidding?

>Melissa lifted a small piece of the cake toward Hanse. "Husband, in honor of our marriage, in addition to this cake, I give to you a regiment of BattleMechs and the means to support them in perpetuity." Though her eyes glinted mischievously, Melissa fed the piece of cake to Hanse gently.

>Hanse smiled when he was done, every bit of him exuding the wily confidence that had earned him the nickname of "the Fox." His clear voice filled the hall with happy sounds, but filled Justin with uneasy terror. Something is wrong. Hanse, what are you doing?

>"I thank you for the gift, beloved," began the Prince of the Federated Suns. He lifted a piece of cake in his right hand. "Wife, in honor of our marriage, in addition to this morsel, I give you a vast prize." He slipped the doily from his dessert plate and held the dish aloft in his one hand for all to see. "Here, my love," he said, looking at Melissa with laughing eyes and grabbing her pussy, and by extension the collective pussies of the entire Lyran Commonwealth. "I give you the Capellan Confederation!"

>>52002967
>Donal Trump
I don't think I've heard of that model of PPC before

>>52003268
It does bigly damage.

>>52002967

I actually like this comparison. Not only did Hanse make the Suns into the greatest state that ever did or ever will exist in Battletech, but he did it while slapping the shit out of the liberal paradise that is the Capellan confederation.

Hopefully Trump will let us have an open hunting season on liberals the same way Hanse's troops got to kill every Capellan subhuman they could reach. The best thing for this country would be to depopulate it by a good 70 million liberal undesirables. If Russia and China could do it, we can too.

>>52003347
>Trump kills 100 million liberals just like Hanse killed 100 million Capellans

And if anyone complains about the figures, he can claim "FASAnomics"

>>52003347
>capellans
>liberal

I knew Trump supporters didn't went to school, but this is a whole new level of stupidity

>>52003379
>Trump supporters didn't went to school
>went

Citizen Anon, you aren't helping us.

>>52003347

I don't think the Confederation was liberal.

If anything, I think they have the Suns and Lyrans beat on being Conservative, being the iron-fisted dictatorship that they have to be.

>>52003523
He's shitposting, don't reply or you'll just encourage him further

>>52003523
For one, being a dictatorship doesn't make you left or right. For another, they're all dictatorships.

>>52003379

Capellans absolutely are like liberals

>everyone's equal (citizens) but some are more equal than others
>membership into their superspecial club (citizenship) is limited only to people who think and act like they do
>obsessed with groupthink and have a secret thought police division
>can't into economics and have produced essentially a failed state
>leaders are clinically insane
>willing to send their own people to death camps if they don't conform sufficiently
>some of their biggest patrons molest children (hillary vis a vis Madcap)
>sexually exploit small children (this whole "loli" thing)
>are OK with living with whores, trannies and other moral degenerates
>based on China and Russia, which are communist, much like liberals are communists
>get constantly stomped on by superior capitalist powers (FWL and FS in Battletech, look what happened to OWS hippies IRL)

So yeah, as far as I'm concerned Capellans are basically equivalent to liberals. And like liberals, the rest of the setting would be a far better place if they were wiped from existence. My real regret is that I'm no longer in the service and won't get to participate when Trump calls up the military, declares martial law, and starts the cleansing this country needs.

>>51999473

>That's a decent and reasonable <average> FedSuns 3025 company.

The Suns is supposed to be a light-weight military and everyone is supposed to have a lot of Bugs. The "perfectly reasonable" company has been whipped completely out of someone's ass and includes the fucking Beemer, which in 3025 fluff is hardly ever seen in the AFFS; it's far more common for the Lyrans, FWL, and Dracs with the Suns the least likely to field one.

But muh Hanse Davion and sheeeet.

What people *think* the various militaries should look like is heavily informed by their own biases and not the actual fluff.

>>52001524

Fluff indicates they're about as common as each other. The Enforcer might be the "official" Suns medium, but the Cent isn't too far behind.

>>52003562
First four actually fit.

>>51994094
Yeah I was tired and got the scale wrong, but the numbers are about right. I though cargo wasn't included in the base weight so I got 20 per cubic metre and you got 13.4. You would literally have to chain a dropship to the ground to stop it from becoming a tumbleweed if it really was as heavy as the TRO describes. Battletech being battletech I guess.

>>51991713
Actually no, the hardest thing about making a submersible DropShip is reinforcing it so it can withstand multiple atmospheres of pressure. A spaceship only has to survive between 0 to 1 atmosphere, depending upon what planet it's touching down to. At merely 100m below the ocean, that jumps to over 10 atmospheres.
Your right, which means that hiding a dropship underwater is also going to be really hard. Any parts of the dropship that don't flood are going to be under exterior water pressure that exceeds what they're rated to handle. At the same time they must support the rest of the flooded dropship like a hot air balloon trying to rip it's tether. This might not be a problem if you sink the dropship to just under the surface of the water, but at that level you could easily spot the dropship through the water and the thermal bloom would be visible from orbit. If you sunk it even deeper to the point that it is completely concealed the water pressure would crumple the pressurized areas like a beer can.

But you're wrong about the submersible part, you can totally make an (intentionally) submersible dropship. Yeah making a pressure vessel is hard, but all real life submarines are just variations on a steel tube. Material science in battletech is SO FAR beyond steel tubes it's not even funny. And we know battletech can handle submarines because submarines do exist, they even have submersible aircraft carriers that are straight outta total annihilation. So in theory the problem isn't making a submersible dropship, the problem is finding a way to make a submarine fly.

Can we please just talk about robots for a minute?

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>>52003562
Stop telling truths!

>>52003863
It's OP's fault. He keeps making the threads too quickly, killing discussion in the old threads and creating an awkward silence in the new threads for shitposters.

We need to just let the threads run their course to page 10 before making new ones.

Also my favorite medium is the Griffin.

>>52003562

Their economy is how is has to be given they're sandwiched between two different powers that are both terrible neighbors

So what does the Capellan Heavy mech industry look like going into 3080?

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>>52003921

>>52003863

No. Politics is inseparable from all topics now. There needs to be a war, a secession, or an peaceful balkinization of the US into more culturally-homogeneous substates, because right now, the US has devolved into multiple mutually-exclusive cultures that view each other as actual enemies.

A shared love of giant robots isn't enough to keep that in check. We're done as a country, and it's either break up peacefully, break up violently, or purge enough people that whichever culture is left no longer feels threatened.

Sorry, anon. I wish it wasn't so either. But as long as we all have to share the country, this isn't ever going to stop.

>>52003921
Not like he'll stop no matter how much it's shitting /btg/ up.

>>52004019
not gonna happen.
To much money, to big a military.

You'l just gotta live with the fact that the US is going to fracture, and keep fracturing, but never break.

Pretty damn good, actally. The lines they have are Marauder X2, Ostroc X2, Thunder X2, Ti'Tsang, Catapult, Crusader, Archer, Cataphract, Warhammer, Avatar, Black Hawk-KU, Helios, Jinggau, Lao Hu.

Compare and contrast to the Suns with 2 Primitive, 7 standard, and a handful of refit sites for older chassis. Or the Dracs, who have even less.

>>52004194

For >>52003994. More details in the Objectives series if you want.

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>>52004019
>the US is slowly but surely becoming the >>>

>>52004194

Well I can understand the Suns, who are trying to scale back after the Jihad and Taurian conflict had them fearing national collapse.

But why would the Combine have so few?

> Black Hawk-KU

Did the Capellans get that from the Combine?

>>52003562
The first 6 apply to both parties with zero modification.
>some of their biggest patrons molest (trump vis a vis grabbing the pussy)
7's the same
>are OK with living with incels, nunazis, and other moral degenerates
I can't even how liberals are communists
>gets constantly stomped on by superior capitalist powers like china and russia

Both your county's parties and main demographic suck. So yeah, as far as I'm concerned you have no idea what liberal means outside republican/democrat american politics. And like americans, the rest of the setting would be a far better place if they were wiped from existence. I can join isis whenever I want tho.

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Since Lyran aerospace has always been an interest to me (they're mentioned as using quite a few fixed wing aircraft) how is the "Zugvogel"?

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>>52004246
Cappies had no reason to actually get Combine omnis.

What happened was a FanPro Commando and playtester bitched and moaned until the CapCon was given them. Literally, everyone dismissed his insistence and his arguments were shot down but he would relent and eventually TPTB just went along with it.

>>52004310
*wouldn't relent

>>52004246

LAW on Luthien got blown up by the Black Dragons, the WoB damaged some, and the remainder were on planets that were given over to the Republic of the Sphere. So they start cranking out a bunch of new factories but those have limited production levels, especially compared to the lines of other nations that weren't as badly fucked up in the Jihad.

All of the first-gen Omnis were exported and/or manufactured under liscence elsewhere in the Sphere by 3058 at the latest.

>>52004310

>Cappies had no reason to actually get Combine omnis.

Maybe they traded with the Combine for them?

As I understand it, the Confederation and Combine have traded frequently, with the design that would become the Combine's much beloved Mauler stemming from such exchanges.

Or perhaps they obtained the designs through espionage, similar to how the Inner Sphere Standard spread to other factions.

But really, I would have preferred it if the Confederation had produced their own Omni designs or picked up a few from the now splintered League.

Thinks like the Vandal should have came earlier for them.

>>52004310

I really have no horse in this race but prior to Xin Sheng magic and recapturing the St. Ives Compact, the CapCon's heavy manufacturing was pretty shitty. And literally everyone else was building Combine Omnis, usually through Star Corps licenses. So I don't have a problem with it.

OTOH, after the Jihad the CapCon's military manufacturing absolutely shits all over everyone else's. And in a series that was "thoroughly" researched by MadCap, I think we can hazard a guess as to why that might be the case.

>>52004309

Pretty good for a support vehicle and not really something other fixed-wing aircraft want to have to fight. Easy prey for proper ASF though.

>>52003268
Yuge damage. It's still in prototype, but it's gonna be great. We've got the best designers.

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>the Word of Blake Jump Infantryman who killed three Elementals with a vibroblade

Who are other based minor characters that you love?

>>52004435

>CapCon's military manufacturing absolutely shits all over everyone else's.

I thought that was because they were the only ones actually still vested in large scale warfare while the other Houses, who took the worst end of the Jihad, weren't in any condition to maintain the war industry they had before?

Also, did the Capellans snatch any resource rich worlds or production centers away from the remnants of the League on their border?

And does Detroit produce anywhere near as much as Tikonov?

>>52004408

>As I understand it, the Confederation and Combine have traded frequently, with the design that would become the Combine's much beloved Mauler stemming from such exchanges.

wat

>>52004533
>Also, did the Capellans snatch any resource rich worlds or production centers away from the remnants of the League on their border?

Surprisingly the Capellans didn't take hardly any worlds from the League successor states.

>>52004250
>I can join isis whenever I want tho.

Good. Do it so we can drone you.

>>52004533

>I thought that was because they were the only ones actually still vested in large scale warfare while the other Houses, who took the worst end of the Jihad, weren't in any condition to maintain the war industry they had before?

Part of it is that the CapCon got hit least of anyone in the Jihad.

Part of it is CGL/MadCap's amazingly shit "fact-checking." Lines appear and disappear at random, factories on planets that weren't even hit during the Jihad just vanish, new lines pop up, lines that were said not to have been touched disappear, and so on.

I mostly lump it under pro-Capellan bias from the authors, both to set up the Dark Age plotline where the CapCon is one of, if not *the* most powerful of the states and because MadCap is shit at canon and would minimise the abilities of other states while maximising those of his beloved Capellans any way.

>>52004535

I believe the Confederation has better trade relations with the Combine than it does any other Successor State.

As to the Mauler comment, a Capellan machine known as the "Linesmen" (someone correct me if I'm wrong) was traded to the Combine, who later revamped the design into the subsequent Dabooku, which lead to the creation of the Mauler that would become a mainstay design in the DCMS alongside the Dragon and Hatamoto-chi.

If'm I'm wrong in this explanation, feel free to correct me.

>>52004598

I assume by the Dark Age that the Capellans had roughly seven decades to hone their edge, while the blades of the other powers dulled from inactivity.

And while it likely is author bias, hasn't the Confederation military seen more conflict in the Dark Age area than most other militaries have combined?

They've battled the Republic, Suns, Free World's remnants and Pirates.

>>52004602

The Daboku was based on the Awesome and becomes the Mauler. The Linesman appears only in apocryphal (ie, non-canon) sources.

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>>52004529
The man you speak of is from best Militia division.

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>>52004716
Has anyone here made a wallpaper version of their sigil? Like for a flag? I've been trying to envision a version of it they'd fly from a flagpole.

>>52004645
No. Everyone neighboring the RotS (and even some who didn't) fought it, everyone fought against pirates. FWL and DC had more fights because they also had internal conflicts, unlike CC

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>>52005123

What long, gwai-lo? All you mad youl faction not rearn from combat and benefit flom grorious right of heaven?

>>52005150
>That off kilter hair part
My ocd

>>52005150
DERETE THIS

>>52005150
I can't believe I'm being insulted by a popsicle.

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Tried to making a "space" mech using the advice from last thread. It's lacking so any advice would be helpful.

Would Handheld Weapons be good in space?

I know the Handbook series addresses mech production for each of the Great Houses (and major periphery states) up to 3067, but is there a similar source for the other Inner Sphere factions (FRR, ComStar, Word of Blake, etc) in the same era?

Because as a side project I've been making note of production mentions I find in TROs and I'm curious if there's already something made up.

>>52003930
>FWL
>terrible neighbor

Only reason the CC still exists is because the FWL let them

>>52005563
Still terrible. Spared them, nurtured them, traded with them, withheld retaliation for Xin Sheng economics with them, gave them three warships, etc.
Awful neighbors.

>>52004408
>or picked up a few from the now splintered League.

Fuck off you squinty bastard

>>52004019
Where's that greentext where we point out that /pol/ are just the modern furfags?

>>52005665
Where's the point where someone says let's just ignore them and maybe they'll stop posting since it's obvious it's for attention?
I mean damn, "don't feed the trolls" is as old as forums.

>>52004019


Fighting the civil war was a historic mistake in hindsights. We could have a more liberal and urban superpower including canada, and a Confederacy that went full Golden Circle and annexed mexico, cuba and hispaniola by now.

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>>52005665
I can't believe this is four years old already

>>52005724
The sad thing is that anti-/pol/acks are literally worse than /pol/ now. They're just another version of it. Besides the fact whoever wrote this must have been new since off topic derails about racist crap have been here since the site was just for anime.

But how about robots now?

>>52005754

What, you want to bring in /r9k/ in this too?

Jesus fuck make this shit stop.

NEA, did you say you had some sort of new warship related OC? What did you do now?

>>52005506

Nope.

>>52003921
Are you retarded? We've creating new threads after auto sage since 2013

Stop being so new for once

>>52005772
Ha, I actually forgot that place existed.

>>52005775
I know.

In case NEA isn't around at the moment, you guys want to talk aerospace fighters?

>>52003562
>Midwest American """""""""education""""""""""

>>52005703
The war would have been fought over the western territories anyway whether it was technically one country or two. Which is what the federal government did anyway right after the Civil War. They spent the next four decades pacifying the West.

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>>52005772
Why are you mentioning the name that must not be named?

Crash this thread with no survivors, create a new thread


Or simply shitpost until it all ends


I'll continue the massive shitposting: introductory rules are the most fun Battletech can be

>>52005754
>Since the site was just for anime
You do know we had other boards and that /pol/ was eventually created because of /news/ getting removed and the off-topic derailments that followed, right? Not every board was /b/.

>>52005875

/tg/ itself was created because warhammerfags kept derailing /b/ by spamming.

Also, another piece of 4chan history in spoilers if we are going full historian now.

>>52005874
>I'll continue the massive shitposting: introductory rules are the most fun Battletech can be

Ever play a battalion version battalion sized battle of LAMs owned by mercenaries that all have Clan Tech upgraded their machines?

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>>52005915

Separate post for careful handling.

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>>52005809
Sure. I'm interested in how the Clan breeding program failed with aerospace pilots. Even the first Clan invasion book demonstrated this with what was at least a Visigoth (or Jengiz) getting taken out in a dogfight by a Shilone.

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>>52005932
>All their predictions on porn came true

>>52005982

I always headcanon'd that away. While their tech, breeding and training was far superior, the retarded clanner doctrine crippled their effectiveness. Aerospace operations are especially unconductive to zellbrigen and honor duels.

>>52005982

By a pilot who is supposed to be Kai-Allard levels of awesome, yes.

The same series has IS characters standing around dumbfounded by the shit Carew of the Nygrens pulls, and he was a shit-tier pilot in the eyes of the Clans, one who would never recieve a Bloodname and probably never advance past his current rank.

In fact he only manages to do so thanks to the Refusal War opening a shit ton of Bloodname slots to the Exiles who needed to fill out their Clan Council, and he only gains (slightly) in rank thanks to being one of Phelan's besties.

It only fails out of nowhere in the Twilight of the Clans fluff, where literally the same guy who wrote Carew suddenly declares it's shit, because ???

>>52005563

They're terrible.

They just aren't as terrible as the Federated Suns are, whose aggression the Confederation owes it's founding to.

Looking at the history between the two, I have to wonder why Hanse expected anything other than the FUs from Romano during the Outreach conference regarding the Clans.

>>52006034
Was Tyra Miraborg ever statted?

>>52006107
-10 HP

>>52006107

Not directly.

From what we see of Carew he's somewhere in the 1/2 to 2/3 range, and considered bad at his job. Miraborg was shown to be better than that, so draw your own conclusions.

>>52006034
>The same series has IS characters standing around dumbfounded by the shit Carew of the Nygrens pulls, and he was a shit-tier pilot in the eyes of the Clans, one who would never recieve a Bloodname and probably never advance past his current rank.

Carew's story actually reinforces the point. His bloodline was viewed as a failure and by clan beliefs and practices he never should have gotten a bloodname. But they were wrong and he advanced because what they thought worked for aerospace piloting breeding was wrong. He succeeded in spite of the breeding program, even when it said he was a dead end.

>>52006133
That's a good point. Carew's being considered "bad" was on the same tier as clan purists who thought Phelan couldn't be a mechwarrior because he's a freeborn spheroid. Their perceptions were flawed.

When a mech makes a physical attack and sets off an ammo explosion, why doesn't it take damage to the part that's delivering the attack?

>>52006133

He was judged as a failure on *skill level* because of what he demonstrated as a fighter pilot, and that was blamed on his poor gene-heritage.

If a polymath ace pilot with Starbuck-level skill is viewed as a failure, what must successful Clan pilots look like?

>>52006199

Best ones at point blank range honor duels.

>>52006199
You might need to post an excerpt from the novels because I only remember his bloodline being flawed.

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Is this one of the better Combine Assaults?

Also, why is the chassis an Alshain model?

I thought the Combine lost that world decades ago by the point the Orochi was introduced?

>>52006244

He fucks shit up on Tukayyid against the Com Guard.

Then Natural Selection has this:

"The spherical K-l Class DropShuttle hovered over the ground as its landing gear descended and locked into place barely seconds before touching down. Victor grudgingly admired the pilot, knowing how much daring and skill it took to pull off such a maneuver. Every Clanner I've ever seen displays phenomenal skills. How we managed to even slow them down astounds me."

Carew is not as well-trained or skilled in piloting Small Craft as he is in ASFs either.

The TL; DR of it is that ASF pilots actually are shown as being more skilled than IS ones, with special rules to back that up. Prior to AT2 changing firing arcs and the like, the extra G-resistance and improved Piloting skill for Clanners made a hell of a difference, because they could get more guns onto better arcs more reliably than IS pilots. But then AT2 removes a bunch of hit locations, the Clan bonuses largely disappear, and firing arcs are changed which makes things very different in combat.

Also it was time to write the Clans off completely as a threat to get on with the FCCW plot.

>>52006264

>Is this one of the better Combine Assaults?

Sadly, yes.

>Also, why is the chassis an Alshain model?

Brand name.

When is it good to put a torso cockpit on a mech?

>>52006401

When using the head as an ammo dump if you don't want CASE, or to put a bunch of guns in a hard-to-hit location, potentially with a Head Turret.

Doing it for survivability is a questionable move. Sure, you won't die to random headcaps but the CT is hit very frequently, you're more vulnerable to life support crits, and you can't eject any more.

Is the Combine's lack of proper use of the Double Heat Sink ever explained?

I read this regarding a Lyran version of the Valkyrie that was lacking Double Heat Sinks:

>The Lyrans have their own version, the QS5. Mounting a nine-tube multi missile launcher, it can provide fire support and then move in to brawl. It also mounts ferro-fibrous armor for increased protection, though pilots aren’t happy about the lack of double heat sinks. A common remark is that the Lyrans bought the design from a discount Luthien Armor Works sale.

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>>52006401
When you want to make pic related.

>>52006482

>Is the Combine's lack of proper use of the Double Heat Sink ever explained?

IC they're supposed to be a bit complicated and the Combine was using them on their ASF elements in preference to their 'Mechs, despite their air forces getting completely whipped by the Jags, Bears, and Cats.

OOC it seems to be a pretty clear attempt to ensure that the machines used by factions other than the FedCom aren't that great. The Caps have a similar issue with DHS use early on. The FWL doesn't as much because of how many -M models are used by other powers but the ones that they use more than others have their own problems even before lolLGR syndrome kicks in.

>>52006720

>despite their air forces getting completely whipped by the Jags, Bears, and Cats.

Now how does that work when Clan pilots are supposedly only the equal of their Inner Sphere counterparts and they Combine likely outnumbered them heavily?

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>>52006613
>Laser-Reflective armor
Eh
>118.8 km/h Missile Head Turret
Sign me the fuck up

>>52006748
Because the Clan Omnifighters mopped the floor with the DC's Aerospace corps. Jagatais, Visigoths and Sabutais are no fucking joke.

>>52006792
My next favorite mechfu does it even better, even if it's slow. I suspect it's going to make Plog question my sanity.

>>52006748

Prior to Prince of Havoc, Clan pilots whipped IS ones with ease.

The typical Clan Cluster also has 30-40 ASFs with either one Trinary or two Binaries of Fighters depending and the average IS unit has 18-36 depending.

It's really just a shitty explanation for why the Dracs aren't using DHS on their 'Mechs, especially since the variants they were supposedly using never eventuated any way and their ASF forces lagged in upgrades.

>>52006401
When you want to get your sensors shot off and flail around helplessly til you die

>>52006720
>OOC it seems to be a pretty clear attempt to ensure that the machines used by factions other than the FedCom aren't that great.
I mean, the FedCom had some durr designs early on, it's just that theirs got fixed fast and nobody bothered to do that for the dracs because nobody cared enough. Same reason the taurians didn't get a single unique variant of anything till 3085 came out

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What's your favorite SLDF aerospace fighter?

Melissa Steiner related

>>52006823
>prior to prince of havoc
Book 2 of the Blood of Kerensky trilogy establishes aerospace is the only place where IS pilots hold their own.

>>52006823
>Prior to Prince of Havoc, Clan pilots whipped IS ones with ease.

Not him but this is false. In the BoK trilogy, ASF's were the one area where the IS said they were basically on equal footing with clanners machine to machine.

>>52006613
Did any of the Celestial series use torso cockpits?

>>52006958

I don't know how many times I'm going to need to point out that Tyra was an exceptional pilot, of at least Phelan calibre if not Kai standard.

Sure, super duper elite really rare IS pilots can hold their own against Clan no-namers. Same as what happens dirtside. Doesn't mean it's what usually happens though.

>>52006988
No, only small cockpits.

>>52006988
No. They all used small and VDNI to bypass the penalties.

>>52006997
Nobody is talking about Tyra though. They're talking about the IS leaders describing the war situation. I think it's in the Outreach conference part.

>>52006997
>I don't know how many times I'm going to need to point out
An irrelevant point? They don't say "this one aerospace pilot", they say in general. As in, the usual. Get a new argument.

>>52007033

It's actually Asano talking to Theodore, and goes directly against everything else shown in the SBs and novels of the era.

It's the scene where Theodore explains that he can't reinforce Luthien because he totally can't reinforce Luthien, you guys, stop asking why Luthien can't be reinforced and is meant to show the Dracs are derp.

>>52006190
because under the standard level rules, ammo explosions do no exterior damage. the closest thing would be tacops ammo explosion rules.

Which comnon 3025 mechs would be best and easiest to refit as Arrow IV carriers?

>>52007527
Victor? AC20 for AIV, cut some tonnage somewhere for the ammo.

>>52007527
Artillery belongs on tanks, son.

>>52007527
The Hunchback is probably the simplest and best, I've used it extensively in that role before

>>52007527

Longbow and Jagermech are pretty poor at being line fighters, may as well use that weapon mass for something else.

In line with >>52007566, there are worse things to do with a Hunchback or Cyclops. King Crab too, I guess.

Could also try the basic version of the Banshee. Think you'll need to ditch some HS for that though.

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>>52007527
Catapult not good enough for you? The Stalker could probably do it; it has arms with no lower arm actuators or hands. In fact, ripping out literally half the weapons pretty much takes care of itself; pic related. I also stripped a single SHS out of it that it no longer really needs to fit a third ton of AIV ammo. A 3050 proper field refit would probably use CASE as well but I opted out since it's just an experiment.

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>>52005775
>NEA, did you say you had some sort of new warship related OC? What did you do now?


I've been futzing around with a master list of all named canon WarShips, since as far as I can tell, the one that was on the OF is gone.

Really, I've just been stripping/repainting WarShip minis, and I needed to know what factions had what ships, and I couldn't find a resource. So I spend 6-7 hours and made one. It's almost certainly not 100% comprehensive, if for no other reason than there's a bunch of recently published stuff (post-WoR) I didn't completely go through, but it's certainly close.

>https://www.mediafire.com/?mgf6jmh76168xm6

Make sure you read the notes, it'll help explain why certain choices were made; notably regarding tracking ships with multiple owners and regarding "Entered Service" dates. And yes, I should have included a field for HOW a ship left active service (lost, destroyed, changed owner, etc), but I didn't think of that till I was ~600 entries in and I wasn't going to go back and add all that back in.

Sheet 1 is the master list, then basically every faction with 3+ WarShips to its name gets a sub-page. The Clans get a single page, because I was genuinely tired of the project and didn't want to make a separate sub-page for each goddamn Clan.

Enjoy.

>>>52005982

There is ZERO way to reconcile the "Clan vs IS pilots" issue. The fluff is mutually contradictory, sometimes within the same product. IMO, 1-on-1 the Clanners are better, but IS pilots will actually work together while the Clanners won't. Think of WW2-era individual Zero pilots having to fight an USN Wildcat element performing a Thach Weave. 1-on-1 the Zeros will kill win practically every time (and IJN pilots *were* better-trained than USN pilots, full stop - see Parshall's "Shattered Sword"). But they had terrible issues fighting Wildcats with formation discipline who worked to cover each other's back, even at 4-1 odds (see also, John Thach's Wildcat element at Midway)

So uh, can IS battle armour with One-Shot SRMs do anything at all in Megamek after firing them? Nothing at all to even normal infantry?

>>52007825
>IJN pilots *were* better-trained than USN pilots, full stop - see Parshall's "Shattered Sword"
Only in the initial stages of the war, before the IJN slashed the length of their training program because 15 pilots a month wasn't cutting it to replace losses.

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>>52005414
>>52006431
At first I thought that maybe a torso cockpit might help with surviving space combat, but I guess that was just my Lost Planet bias showing. Should I switch it to a small or an interface?

>>52007914

Indeed.

I thought I had said "than USN pilots at the start of the war", but I think I deleted it for character count reasons. In retrospect, I can see how that could have been read as meaning throughout the entire war. My mistake.

Yes, at the outset of the Pacific war, and really through the end of the Solomons campaign, IJN fighter pilots were much, much better than USN fighter pilots. Their training regime was ridiculous, similar to today's Delta or SEAL training, with similar washout rates.

By 1943, yeah, the USN pilots were clearly better.

I do think the comparison between early 1942 USN and IJN pilots is a reasonable analogue for the comparison between IS and Clanner pilots (respectively). There's not really any direct canon to back it up, mostly because that would actually require TPTB to write about aerospace, and each time they acknowledge aerospace exists, IlClan gets pushed back another month and Loren has to actually make a payment against the money he owes.

>>52007825
Speaking of WarShips, I've got another question about your AU if you don't mind

Basically, with the IS pretty much all gunned up and ready to go on the WarShip front, how would that turn out come the Clan Invasion?
Would you be putting theit fleets on an absurd bulk diet to maintain the canon overwhelming aerospace superiority, or would that part of the invasion actually be in contention?

>>52007928
Are you planning on filling it with MD or Clan EI interface pilots? If not, no you shouldn't do so.

>>52007928

Ooooo, yeah, unless something's changed, Torso Cockpits are actually much WORSE for space combat, because of Breach Checks. A location getting hit forces a Breach Check (10+, IIRC), and if you fail, everything in the location dies. Since the CT is the most likely location to be hit...

I think Harjel can partially compensate for that (I can't recall its rules offhand), but it's still a problem. I generally avoid a small cockpit for anything that may have to make important PSRs. Like entering or existing a DropShip to deploy in space.

>>52007972
Given the tech I wouldn't be surprised if it was used by the MD or The Society

>>52007960

It would be largely in contention, because unless you hugely change how the Clans operate, WarShips still don't really fit with their preferred invasion-era thought patterns or combat style. They're still more than happy to USE them if there's an opponent with WarShip capability, but WarShip technology wouldn't likely be a focus of Clan science during the Golden Century due to Clan cultural inertia. Therefore, aside from Harjel and the various Clan refits and new builds, there wouldn't be a whole lot technology-wise to differentiate between Clan and IS WarShips.

I might make a small change insofar as the Invading Clans may consider "subcontracting" for the WarShips of other Clans to bolster their own forces (given the number of WarShips extant in the IS in this scenario), along with an explicit ban on intra-Clan WarShip combat during the Invasion from the IlKhan (so that Clans would contribute safely). But otherwise, it's more interesting story-wise if there isn't total Clan domination in WarShips.

Plus, the IS wouldn't be able to strip their defense groups from their super-important planets anyway, so it's not like the Clans would be facing hundreds of WarShips on the defense. Or even any at all, in most systems they'd hit, which means the outcome on the ground would remain more or less unchanged.

>>52008003
The Society didn't use mechs in space, because quite frankly no one in the setting is really retarded enough to shove them out the sides. Admittedly, I did that for a battle imitating the Decepticon assault on the Ark, but the ship was technically a planet with some steep fucking edges and PSRs to cross them. Anyway, mechs in space that aren't fighting on asteroids or something are a bad idea.

>>52008050
>Plus, the IS wouldn't be able to strip their defense groups from their super-important planets anyway, so it's not like the Clans would be facing hundreds of WarShips on the defense
Except for over Luthren, which would quite probably be where the back of the Smoke Jaguar navy would be broken

>>52007981
Didn't see that rule, guess that blows it out of the water especially since you can't mount Harjel where the cockpit is. Guess I'll move it up to the head and hope a random machine gun/srm doesn't breach it.

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>>52007928
Only way you're really going to gain thrust and everything else is to use Prototype-IJJs, which other then their tendency to explode are the better jumpjet option.

>>52008054
>because quite frankly no one in the setting is really retarded enough to shove them out the sides.
Clearly you're not supportive of Thomas' naval plans.

>>52008121
>A Marik think tank designed the Hamilcar space assault vessel, which is manufactured at Irian Technologies
No, that says that a MegaCorp went "HOLY SHIT THIS IS FUCKING COOL" and built it anyway. I'd prefer BA Marines, then I could play Space Hulk or something.

>>52007954
>each time they acknowledge aerospace exists, IlClan gets pushed back another month

Memes aside, there's a staggering amount of Aerospace and Warship art in the Jihad books. Though I guess showing cool spaceships is a far cry from knowing how they work in the game. It's why so much of the aerospace battle stuff feels so wonky.

>>52008050
>I might make a small change insofar as the Invading Clans may consider "subcontracting" for the WarShips of other Clans to bolster their own forces
that sounds interesting, could be an interesting clan politics angle, demanding certain concessions in exchange for using their ships
which clans do you guys figure would be in the naval support group?

>>52008422
Snow Ravens did it in actual canon for the invasion.

>>52007011
>>52007005
Can you have a small torso cockpit?

In mechanical terms, what's the difference between a victory/defeat, and a marginal one?

If, say, I just lost three of my four heavy 'mechs on a deployment in against the bot (not that I would ever let that happen ha ha ha...) with two of my pilots dead, but still managed to achieve victory conditions, should I declare it a marginal victory? I kind of think the loss of that much hardware and two good pilots is punishment enough, but I'm curious.

>>52007928
Huh, so that's where that's from. What the hell does it have in the arm?

>>52007981
Can't put Harjel in the same location as a cockpit. Fucked over two /btg/RO mechs...

>>52008422
Ice Hellions were itching to get in on the invasion any way they could and have a decent fleet, iirc.

>>52008422
every crusader clan but the blood spirits, I think. Probably the Wank Snakes and Meth Assholes at the top of the bill, with the Steel Vipers close after

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>>52008826
>What the hell does it have in the arm?
A saw for cutting up giant aliens and other robots.

>>52002856
>>52002912
>>52002941
The Clanners were the only ones who had a galactic internet. For everyone else, the phone company rates put a hard stop to that.

>>52003347
>If Russia and China could do it, we can too.

You already did. The percentage of Americans in North America dropped from 100% to 3%... it's all migrants and mongrels these days.

>>52007825
>>NEA, did you say you had some sort of new warship related OC? What did you do now?
>
>
>I've been futzing around with a master list of all named canon WarShips, since as far as I can tell, the one that was on the OF is gone.
>
>Really, I've just been stripping/repainting WarShip minis, and I needed to know what factions had what ships, and I couldn't find a resource. So I spend 6-7 hours and made one. It's almost certainly not 100% comprehensive, if for no other reason than there's a bunch of recently published stuff (post-WoR) I didn't completely go through, but it's certainly close.
>
>>https://www.mediafire.com/?mgf6jmh76168xm6
>
>Make sure you read the notes, it'll help explain why certain choices were made; notably regarding tracking ships with multiple owners and regarding "Entered Service" dates. And yes, I should have included a field for HOW a ship left active service (lost, destroyed, changed owner, etc), but I didn't think of that till I was ~600 entries in and I wasn't going to go back and add all that back in.
>
>Sheet 1 is the master list, then basically every faction with 3+ WarShips to its name gets a sub-page. The Clans get a single page, because I was genuinely tired of the project and didn't want to make a separate sub-page for each goddamn Clan.
>
>Enjoy.

Updated the bottom pastebin. Great work NEA.

>>52009387
>Oystein was a good friend.

Wut

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Hey /btg/.
I've noticed that there were a lot of new 'mechs and tanks using the Thunderbolt missile launchers as of TRO 3145, but I'd never tried using them up until recently. I dropped in a Thunder in megamek, only to find out that while I knew that Thunderbolts fire one big missile rather than a bunch of smaller ones at the cost of reduced range compared to LRMs, increased costs and rarity, couldn't use specialty rounds, etc, what I didn't realise was that it also halved the damage, rounded down, of the missile. Meaning a Thunderbolt 20 only does 10 damage.

I could see why a minority of people might prefer taking a Thunderbolt 20 over an LRM 20 since it always puts the damage on one location, but when we're talking Thunderbolt 5s like those seen on the Behemoth 2, is there any reasoning as to why someone would use them over LRM5s? I mean, if TB5s only do two damage, and LRM5s on average do 3 damage, both of which in packs of 5, what's the point?

Admittedly, this has reduced my interest in the Orochi. Would have been nice to have a homegrown DCMS design that could have been an analogue to mechs like the Devastator and Fafnir

>>52008764
The Marginal Victory/Defeat options are a MekHQ feature that isn't really called for in the ATB rules, assuming that's what your question is about. MekHQ was made to run all sorts of campaigns, not just ATB.

IIRC, it gives a slightly smaller score bonus or penalty to your current mission (which is what AtB uses to represent "contracts"); something like +/-1 instead of +/-2. The AtB rules themselves always say either straight victory or straight defeat; nothing in-between, but it's your campaing - and the AtB rules are always evolving and changing anyway.

>>52009515
>, what I didn't realise was that it also halved the damage, rounded down, of the missile. Meaning a Thunderbolt 20 only does 10 damage.
wait what the fuck? that sure as fuck isn't supposed to happen
Thunderbolt missiles are supposed to do what damage they say on the tin

>>52009515
Wait, where is the damage halved? TW says the damage of a Thunderbolt 20 is 20 pts.

>>52009558
*TO, not TW

>>52008907
>every crusader clan but the blood spirits, I think
I could actually see the blood spirits saying that they'd go on, and then pulling a ghost burr before they did, and loading everything onto their WarShips, nobody noticing because they're so isolated anyhow, and then making a run for it when their so-called fellow clanners are least expecting it
>>52009515
>what I didn't realise was that it also halved the damage, rounded down, of the missile. Meaning a Thunderbolt 20 only does 10 damage.
something has clearly gone fucky here, because that sure as hell isn't supposed to happen

>>52009515
Show me exactly in the log what happened. Because it sounds like you hit with a glancing blow.

How do you guys handle your victory conditions in AtB? I ask because I'm having my first circumstance in a mission that isn't presenting a clear and obvious outcome.

I'm doing a Base Attack mission as the defender, and it's been a pretty intense and violent battle so far. My lance deployed with a fairly large employer force, vs a large enemy force. All said and done, my side was about 11.5k BV and the enemy was 12.5k (ish).

As of the last turn, both sides are reduced to a little bit less than 50% BV remaining, and the victory conditions are "keep at least three base units operational and destroy 50% of enemy forces. Keep more than 50% of your+ally's units operational."

I'm not entirely sure how to rule this, myself. I'm personally inclined to call it a victory at this point and end the battle, because while both sides more or less simultaneously dipped under 50%, the three required base units are still up and running. I'm not quite sure, though.

And yes, I realize that in the end I can call it however I please and I don't have to answer to anyone but myself, but I want to try and remain in the spirit of things.

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>>52009675
>>52009547
>>52009558
>>52009591

Figured it out.
Was playing pretty late that night, misread the TO information.

Turns out it does halve the damage output, but only when you're inside of the minimum range. The combat was really close-quarters and I was firing on targets while I was at 4-5 hexes instead of 6+. Otherwise, the shots do the full value.

Well, is MY face red...

>>52009920
>Turns out it does halve the damage output, but only when you're inside of the minimum range. The combat was really close-quarters and I was firing on targets while I was at 4-5 hexes instead of 6+. Otherwise, the shots do the full value.
well, that'd do you in

and on an unrelated note, I feel like the various minor mercenary and periphery factions probably ought to have 3025-style variants, but don't in canon
how about a design challenge for that sort of thing?

>>52009954

On the one hand, replacing explosive components with HS or energy-based weapons the way -D models or the Wolverine-M do would make some sense to up their survivability.

On the other hand, A/Cs are explicitly extremely rugged and low-maintenance, whereas energy weapons require better techs and maintenance to keep running. And Periphery forces are more likely to need MGs than anyone else when their primary opposition will be fielding a bunch of infantry.

Add in the difficulty of modifying and minatining a 'Mech, and, well...

Them not getting regional variants until after the Trinity Alliance makes plenty of sense to me. Especially in a universe where things like the Wolverine-6M is strictly fielded by the FWLM, and the PHX-1D is Suns-only.

>>52009954
3025-style (Introtech style?) variants of what, exactly?

On that note, I would also like to see a whole new batch of introtech mechs introduced into the game really far in to the storyline... like if this time jump ever happens, have a whole new batch of introtech designs to go along side with it. Fluff them as designs made to be simple in order to combat the logistics bottlenecking and difficulty of maintenance of more modern designs. The tried and tested mechs with standard engines and SHS would be more reliable than the mixtech designs with XXL engines, targeting computers, and Chameleon systems. It's also a lot easier to keep supplied when you only need a handful of different weapons systems than having so many flavors of weapons. Just look at lasers. Standard lasers, Pulse lasers, X-Pulse Lasers, Variable Speed Pulse lasers, ER Lasers, Clan ER, Pulse, ER Pulse, and Chemical lasers. Bombast Lasers... I'm sure there are even some that I'm forgetting now. While I know that long-term players like having new toys, it also makes "Getting up to date" unapproachable, and I would imagine it to be an absolute nightmare for procurement when almost every one of these systems can only be made on a few planets and must be shipped over the course of several months to a year.

>>52009954
I figure that each of the three major powers would be different
For all of them, I would figure they'd go full energy boat on their Assaultd just on account of the Magic Death Ammo Crits
I figure a Stalker trades all the missiles for twin PPCs and sinks would be about standard
For the lighter stuff
>the Magistracy would focus on all-energy all-gun mediums and heavies, paired with anti-conventional geared bugs to do pirates, but the rest Just In Case

For the taurians, my thinking is that they'd have two sorts of mechs, pure-defense zombies (think a Warhammer that changes MGs for SHS, SLs for another sink, and the SRM-6 for RL/10s and sinks, or the all-laser thud)
The other type would be raider/pirate-murderers and would be purely fast heavies and 4/6/4 deals (dump the MGs and SRM-2 from a Thud and add 4JJs, say, or a Marauder-D that jumps rather thsn stays cool)
For the Ourworlders, I would imagine their mechs mostly being set up to clean ip after air strikes, lots of utility armament, like the Merlin being almost perfectly so, but with more SRMs, for Inferno's sake

I figure the minor states would go pure entergy boat, since a mech's job is to kill mechs, and infantry and tanks should be dealt with by the same, rather than risk mechs

>>52007928
Your best bet for improving space survival would be a full head ejection system, since it acts like a lifeboat rather than just having the poor bastard floating around in spacesuit.

>>52009920
Something to remember, TBolts can be hot loaded like LRMs, and since they don't roll cluster hits they suffer no decrease in performance from it.

>>52009954
>I feel like the various minor mercenary and periphery factions probably ought to have 3025-style variants, but don't in canon
As far as canon goes it's not that they necessarily don't, just we don't get any specifics on them.

The Archer for instance is noted for having a shitload of variants in existence, the trick is it would be a pain both IC and OOC to track down and list them all, and a lot of those minor power and merc jobs are few in number as well. So outside those variants used by notable pilots, TROs and RS usually focus more on production variants or standardized refits with large distribution.

>>52007076
>goes against everything in the novels
>in the novels
>and supported by other novels
Ok.
But for the record you were wrong.

>>52009920
That might be the single worst character pic since the 80s.

>>52011186

>every novel appearance with IS characters fighting clanners in the air EXCEPT with Tyra shows them getting straight-up owned until Prince of Havoc
>shit-tier carew leaves everyone else stunned
>SBs say clan pilots are better than those of the IS
>rpg rules have clan pilots shitting on IS ones
>AT rules have clan pilots shitting on IS ones

Naw. The preponderance of evidence is very much in favour of Clan pilots being better. Until they suddenly aren't, since the Clan plotline is over so they can be relegated from believable threat to laughable incompetents as happens in literally every other plotline.

BT is just poorly written across the board. CGL is notably worse than FASA, but even FASA wasn't great.

>>52011277
Wrong. And being wrong again right after several anons pointed out things from the books. Embarrassing. Even the Carew thing, which reinforces the Clan failure with aerospace breeding since by their beliefs his breeding alone marked him for failure.
But this is /btg/, where losers of debates forget the next day so we can rehash it again.

>>52006264
>Combine

No, it was too good for the Combine, so it's a Davion-exclusive now.

>>52011386

>"where's the proof?"
>here, with quotes
>you could also check the first edition of the BT compendium, where clan pilots get skill bonuses and can maneuver more easily on top of that to position themselves better with the old arcs and fuck up less-skilled, less g-resistant IS pilots
>you can also check the old rpg rules where Clan pilots are flat-out better than IS ones in MW2nd Ed, as reflects the fluff, only for that to get retconned into the dirt with MW3/AToW because those authors decided to shit on the old fluff for all the phenotypes
>"hurr no you're still wrong."

Jesus Christ.

>>52011418
Jesus Christ indeed, pretending you can't follow a post tree. At least on the OF morons can't hide behind anonymity.

>>52008121
>>52008054
Didn't somebody here say that space assaults with mechs were less retarded back before FASA wrote rules making it retarded?

>>52011465

There weren't really rules for space assaults or fighting on the surface of WarShips. You could simulate it map-wise with vacuum and low-g and the ground support style rules for ASF though.

>>52011465
Mechs in space seemed to have been a thing back in the day. Not sure when it stopped.

While coming down the stairs at home, 14 year old Melissa Steiner breaks the heel on her glass stilettos and falls down, breaking her neck and is killed instantly.

How does the F-C alliance still come about with no teenage pussy to sell to Hanse?

>>52011639

Hanse marries a woman from one of the other Steiner lines and things proceed as normal.

FedCom fiat is strong, anon.

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>>52011639
>none of this to tempt Hanse

Kapteyn concord conquers the Isle of Skye and Terran-corridor of FedSuns because Hanse is too busy moping to be smug.

>>52011717
wait, thats not teh same girl

>>52011639
>Hanse is not only a genocide but also a pedophile

Derp Age an its stupidity. Back in my time fluff wasn't edgy

Oh, wait

>>52012067
But Hanse never raped anyone and Dan Allard never groped a frigid fatty at a party, like has been done in Derp Age.

These are triggering to our Canopian players.

>>52012156
>never groped a frigid fatty at a party
Yeah wasn't that between a Humphreys and a Halas/fake Marik daughter?

Were there other underage Steiner girls to sell to Hanse? I seem to remember an effeminate fat boy cousin but Hanse isn't into dude bros as far as I know.

One would have thought we'd be past the need to placate intergalactic warlords with underage royal virgins to seal an alliance by the 31st Century.

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What would be the ultimate evil mech in Battleetch?
You know, a design that screams "I'm evil!"

>>52012399
Anything Drac or Lyran. Capellan too.

Anything Word of Blake, FWL or FedSuns would be good mechs.

>>52012385

>Were there other underage Steiner girls to sell to Hanse?

Plenty. Not from the ruling line but there are a lot of Steiners. Not as many as Liaos, but more than Davions or Mariks.

>>52012399
The Atlas literately has a SKULL on it.

>>52012399
Plenty of WARCRIMES! mechs exist. Something loaded with nothing but flamers would be a good place to start.

>>52012512
while not outfitted with pure flamers, the Scarecrow is a pretty nice Warcrime machine

>>52012416
I feel like the Davion line is the most expansive

Making a Blakist Level II with a Black Knight, Thug, Warhammer, Wraith and Lightray.

What should I round it out with? Battle armor? A tank? Another mech?

>>52012432
"Hans, are we the baddies? Look at our 'Mechs, they literally have skulls on them"

>>52003268
It's just a Light PPC with a capacitor.

>>52013452
Any of those c3i versions? If so which ones do you have in the net?

>>52013723
I'll have to doublecheck. They were randomly rolled and I'm not sure if the variants all have C3 or C3i.

>>52003562
All those restrictions, average standard of living still better then in the Suns.

As a liberal I am strangely OK with this characterization.

>>52009920
Hotload your launchers, friend.
It turns thunderbolts from questionable to awesome

>>52013753
What's wrong with the Suns exactly? They have their Guaranteed Liberties or whatever they're called.

>>52009722
The AtB rules creator originally intended the "50%" thresholds and the like to be in terms of the raw # of units, not by BV. If you've been playing by BV so far, one possible tiebreaker here is to see who has lost more in terms of raw numbers.

>>52013841

Aside from the extremely valuable planets, I believe it's said that the rest of Suns space isn't as glamorous and that their infrastructure is poor for a realm of their size.

>>52007910
Asking this one again - can IS Standard Battle Armour do anything after firing their one shot SRMs aside from swarm 'mechs or vehicles? Seems like they'd just be slaughtered by even regular foot infantry slowly.

>>52013753
>Capellans
>better QoL than Suns

liberal please

>>52013956
Well, if you're using the OS SRM version, then yeah, you have a battle claw and jump 3, so you can mulch some grunts but they might get you back.

If you want to kill infantry, take the Flamer or MG versions.

>>52013973
>1% of the population live like kings, everyone else lives in literal shit

Versus

>1% of the population live like kings, everyone else lives in literal shit. But they aren't communists

>>52014090

As long as they aren't communists, that's OK. Capitalism's natural state is essentially a feudal-level class separation anyway. Ideal capitalism puts literally all the wealth into a single person's hands, but of course there's going to be government regulation stopping that.

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>>52014090
>But they aren't communists

You'd be very hard pressed to call Capellans a communist state.
If anything, they're pretty much Chink-led Britannia.
You're either useful or get disposed of by the system.

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>>52014359
We've got to get rid of the over regulation.

>>52014090
EVEN IF the conditions for the average person in the FedSuns are bad (which I don't concede, but will allow for the sake of argument) they don't have to put up with state terrorism like the Capellans do.

>>52014608
If you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to be afraid of.

This feels like a stupid question, but where are the rules for flamer effects on conventional vehicles?

>>52014608

>they don't have to put up with state terrorism like the Capellans do.

While that is true (Max and Romano can attest to that), I believe the Federated Suns citizens are likely no better and may, in fact, be worse depending on which March they live in.

Their March Lords spend their lives frivolously in civil wars and other conflicts such as invasions of neighboring territories that often don't go according to planned.

Of all the issues the Confederation has, Civil Wars have never been a major one like they are for the Suns.

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>>52014699
>Of all the issues the Confederation has, Civil Wars have never been a major one like they are for the Suns.

>secession of Tikonov
>secession of St. Ives
>worlds willingly joining the Suns
>several worlds attempting to join the Andurien-Canopian alliance
>Sarna Supremacy
>St. Ives Civil War
>Styk Triumvirate
>Chaos March states in general preferring to try and be independent than return to Capellan rule

heh

>>52014782

And most of that still pales in comparison to what has went on in the Suns since then.

>>52014844
>losing half your territory to secession and treason and 2/3s of your military pales in comparison to the Suns still holding 90% of its territory and most its military

the Capellans have literally had more civil wars than the Suns

>>52014844
M8 nothing that's ever happened to the FedSuns comes close to the shame of the 4th Succession War.

>>52014699
Not him but I'd rather live on my own farm on Great Gorge than some half-terraformed rock in one of the Capellan's multiplanetary settled systems.

Of course, I'd say the same about that iceball New Syrtis and it's a March capital.

Since we're talking Fedsuns worlds, here's your atlas trivia for the day.

On the planet of Hobbs in the Capellan March, the AFFS has been in a brush war with the local stone age molemen for literally centuries. Where's my Touring the Stars on THAT CGL?

>>52014949
New Syrtis would be pretty comfy. At least before the Jihad edginess and Capellan invasion.

>>52015014
Maybe for Canadians, Fins and other polar bear people.

>>52005754
> anti-/pol/acks are literally worse than /pol/ now
how so?

>>52014912

Well, if I recall, they were said to have had half of their military destroyed by the end of the Jihad (never mind what was lost in the Civil War) and many were apparently fearing the nation would collapse, which was something mentioned in the 3085 Field Manual.

Not sure how it would collapse, but it was apparently an issue.

I think the Suns also took the worst end of the Jihad than any nation and even the conflict between St.Ives and the Confederation was no where near as bad as the FedCom Civil War given nukes were apparently used a handful of times in the FedCom conflict.

>>52015013
Sounds interesting as fuck desu

>>52014882

But haven't the Davion ones usually been far more destructive and on a larger scale?

>>52015128
Stop reaching, hatfag. You're like the Lyran fan who annoyed everyone by insisting the FWL was the most evil state in the Sphere and the aggressor in every conflict despite all facts to the contrary.

>>52015164

They're all evil, so what difference does it make?

>>52013882

While this guy is correct, I feel that going strictly by number of units destroyed is sometimes a bit silly. Say your mission is kill 1/4 of the enemy force while not losing more than 1/4 of your own. You have a mixed lance rounded out by something silly like a Locust or Wasp, and it catches an unlucky PPC to the head on the first turn or two of combat.

You just lost what is likely a very marginal fraction of your actual effective combat power, but strictly by the rules, mission failed, you may as well retreat right now.

Going by raw # of units is what's intended and generally works out, but in some cases like above, I think it's better to look at BV or otherwise make your own judgement call based on what else is going on in the fight.

>>52014686
Somewhere in Total Warfare, IIRC.

>>52015164
Well he was right about that. The FWL is evil. The Lyrans were staging a preemptive attack.

>>52015493

Isn't "evil" really subjective given every power and faction in Battletech's setting is a terrible institution?

One thing I can say about Battletech is that none of the major factions are usually undeserving of what comes to them in terms of destruction and chaos.

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>>52015493
Eat man-made lightning, Elsie bastard.

>>52015527

The FWL destroyed a Lyran HPG on the planet Gleiwitz, their preemptive attack was totally jsutified.

>>52015527
>buying into the concept of state as an actor

If you think that people today should be nuked or tortured or whatever for things that people unrelated to them did centuries ago, then sure.

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Hey dudes, I found this odd blurb in the opening pages of the original record sheets for 3025/3026. I have an old Macintosh Plus that still works, and I'm interested in finding this and running it. What do you think?

>>52015841

Good luck!

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How is Lyran Aerospace compared to that of other factions?

All I know about them is that:

A.) Their best stuff tends to be their heaviest, such as the Typhoons, Thunderbirds, Chippewa and the Eisensturm.

B.) Their Aerospace forces apparently saw little use during the Clan Invasion as they are said to have escaped the ravages of that conflict relatively in tact (what, were they just sitting on that advantage for no good reason?).

>>52015567
I do. Germany should still pay for what it did to my people in the 1940s. Enough will never be enough.

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>>52015547
>Eat man-made lightning,

It's a fun description but then you realize that lightning of any form is useless against a vehicle because of the Faraday's cage principle.

>>52015841

Looks like the website was up until 2006, but they never had any downloadable stuff--all mail order. I see there's an unopened copy of the program on ebay right now, though.

HMP seems to have replaced it.

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>>52012067
>Pedophile

She was 18 when they married and they hadn't even met before she was 17.

He is old enough to be her father and that's messed up, but really it isn't a big deal when you've got an alliance on the line.

>>52011717
The real answer is Ivan Steiner in a dress. Nondi's most beautiful child.

>>52015917
It's a particle accelerator though. Man-made lightning is just everyone's favorite Stackpole'ism for it.

>>52015898
It's not half bad. In flexibility of airframes, either the birds themselves or the selection, I'd rate them first.
A point is pretty true. B point is due to writer-induced stupidity. The AFFC, and Lyran State Command in particular, just sat there and let the clans pick apart their garrisons. Only at Twycross was anything meaningful attempted, the year long peace wasn't exploited for counterattacks, Army Group Sudeten did nothing, and Fortress Tamar was left hanging and its garrison abandoned to die.
So yeah, dumb writing.

>>52016113

Technically, every ranged weapon just accelerates particles :^)

>>52016113
Well in air it would be an incandescent plasma channel that would look something like lightning. Of course, on impact it would just be kinetic energy turned to heat as near light speed plasma hits metal.

>>52016168
Not lasers. You can't accelerate photons, adding energy to light just does strange things.

>>52016166

Writers are usually not military strategists but battletech manages to paint them so inept I struggle to suspend my disbelief. The correct way to counter the clan doctrine would have been counterattacking, constantly getting in scraps, preventing the clans to concentrate their forces on attacks and just bury them under a wide front of shitty IS mechs till their tehcnology catches up .

I stil maintain that Operation REVIVAL should have been space WW2 instead of space mongol invasion.

>>52016200

>implying photons are not particles
>implying those "strange things" are just not a simple increase in energy

>>52016230
Photons are particles, but can not be accelerated.

>>52016230
No, adding energy to a photon increases it's frequency. So if you add more energy it means there are more photons at a given time.

Photons are fucking weird.

>>52016219
Pretty much. The AFFC, of any military, could have waged a Red Army style campaign of quantity against quality.

And this isn't meant to imply German gear was all better than Soviet gear, it's just a general expression.

>>52016355
>Photons are particles, but can not be accelerated

What about photon torpedoes? Checkmate.

>>52015922

I think Bryan Nystul is still active in the scene. I'm gonna try finding his contact information and see if he has something.

>>52016219
>>52016480
Red Army style campaigns actually require a high degree of logistical competence and excellent general staff planning. Zhukov isn't highly lauded for nothing - managing quantity on that scale needs a lot.

>>52016874

IIRC in the last week or two we had a *heated debate* about this. It turned out literally ALL the population of ALL the clans numbers less than just Tharkad alone and ALL the clan warrior caste members from ALL the toumans number a little above 100k. The clans are ludicrously ligthweight and they couldnt stand a slogging match at all. If not for the space jews managing planets for them, OpRev might have failed after a dozen planets or so,

>>52017028
>space jews managing planets for them,
But the Sharkfoxes weren't running everyone's planets? You're thinking of the space fanatics.

>>52017234
You mean space wizards. God, I miss the robes.

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>>52016680
>I think Bryan Nystul is still active in the scene. I'm gonna try finding his contact information and see if he has something.

There's always Nystul's Magic Aura.

>>52015453

I checked, for the life of me I can't find a damn thing. What is the effect supposed to be? I thought it was:

>Heat = Damage direct to internals

I have no idea though.

>>52013384

Liao House of Scions is literally said to be the most numerous of all the lines though.

It's just that the fluff has concentrated on the Davion line so we've seen more of them than the others.

>>52017028

>if you ignore literally every advantage the clans are supposed to have and then the IS fights in a way it never has before you can argue the end result should be different

Imagine that.

>>52015916
t. Vich-I mean, Resistance

>>52017964

>if you ignore literally every advantage the clans are supposed to have

Well yes, congratulations, thats the basic concept of warfare. Fight in a way advantageous to you, not the enemy.

>then the IS fights in a way it never has before

Literally the fourth succession war where davion RCTs overwhelmed the liao defenders and nearly did the same to the kuritas in '39 Dont even try to imply that the very same nation.somehow forgot the strategy they used to great effect before.

>>52018100

>RCTs

Most of the ones thrown at the Clans got mauled so bad they were no good afterward.

Most of what they were sending against the Clans was so utterly garbage or inferior that it made no difference even in numbers.

Least of all against the Jade Falcons and Wolves.

>>52017964
No, it's really just that an army with six-figure numbers can't do anything at all to a trillion people.

The Clans don't have enough people, all up, to garrison Earth, much less to take over the inner sphere.

>>52018259

Not even six figures, not even half of the clans took part in the invasion. I bet they never even got more than 30-40k troops in the inner sphere.

Also, the Kerensky Cluster and the Pentagon Worlds were a bleak wasteland barely supporting life, how on earth are they going to be able to replace combat losses from battlemechs, to ammunition, to bootlaces when a single IS world can outproduce them?

>>52018100
>>52018259

There are two things wrong with this hypothesis right out of the gate.

One is that the military numbers for the game have never been in-line with real world ones. Not even at the height of the Star League.

The other is that transport has always been a bottleneck in BT. Moving the number of troops Hanse did in the 4th SW nearly bankrupted his nation. Shifting enough troops to take on the Clans, when early material shows that you needed 2 RCTs and a normal Regiment with support forces to take out a Solahma Cluster that's mostly not even using Clan tech is going to be horrendous.

>>52018383

So that bit in the Cartoon where Malthus was blowing away entire Mech Lances on his own with his Thor (and from beyond effective Inner Sphere weapon ranges) wasn't just them overplaying things?

>>52018383

>when early material shows that you needed 2 RCTs and a normal Regiment with support forces to take out a Solahma Cluster

Keyword: early. Its like comparing Operation Barbarossa, when the germans were encircling the defeating hundreds of thousands of soviets and wrecked every army sent aganist them. And then in the end they still got completely crushed because much like the soviets the spheroids had the numbers, the strategic depth and the industry to just outproduce the clans

Even reaching Terra and declaring themselves ilClan wouldnt have changed anything. They cant hold land and they dont have the capacity to slowly go around, conquer and pacify the whole of IS. Just look at how much shit the drac resistence gave to the jaguars, they were close to collapsing even before Operation Bulldog began. Once the clans lost their top pilots and top of the line omni clusters they would simply have no way to avoid a war of attrition and die in a war of a thousand car bombs an militias.

>>52018437

Many things in that cartoon were overblown, but yeah. Clanners were *just that good* during the Invasion. There are battles where in a matter of hours single Clan Clusters tore up RCTs so badly that only a few Companies survived, much less made it off-world. And then the Clan forces were back to full strength within a few weeks.

All of this is totally unrepeatable on the tabletop, unless you're playing with some major homebrewed morale rules. Otherwise just the vehicle and infantry regiments can trash multiple Clan Clusters.

This is another source of dissonance about the whole thing.

>>52016874
There's no reason the AFFC wouldn't be capable of it. They waged the campaigns of the 4th Succession War and War of 39. Plus the civil war.

>>52018240
>thrown at the Clans
Trick is, they weren't thrown at them, they were thrown to them. They sat in static garrisons yielding the initiative to the invaders. The only time they got proactive, at Twycross, they won. Imagine that.

>>52018490

And look at the cost to the Dracs to do that.

But no, let's just imagine that the cost in human lives and material is infinitesimally small, and that the other Clans were just as retarded as the Jags, and...

Or we could look at battles during the '60s where a single Clan Cluster would smash an IS regiment with supporting forces. Or how Serpent sent ~10 of the finest 'Mech regiments in the Sphere to Huntress, fought 3 or less Clusters of 'Mechs, mostly of IS salvage, and were absolutely savaged by the time they finally did win. Or the Jihad, where the same shit happens.

If you want to reject the fluff then fine, nobody can make you like it or make you think it makes sense. But if you want to criticise the Clan Invasion, I'd say there are a lot more egregious targets to go after first.

>>52018501

And after the that clans suddenly turned into retards and got creampied at Tukayyid by absoute greens who never fought a war before.

You can chalk those early successes up to clan elite clusters meeting with undersupplied, third-rate periphery garrisons first reeling from the shock of an invasion. And Rasalhauges. In the moment the successor states got their feet under them they trashed the clans, reverse-engineered and upgraded omnis, built battlesuits to counter elementals and even managed to build warships from scratch.

>>52018551

Twycross sent the 10th Lyran Guard RCT, 9th FedCom RCT, and two battalions of Kell Hounds against the Jade Falcon Eyrie Cluster. Eyries are training cadres where the Star Commander/Captain gets an Omni and everyone else gets a 3025-era 'Mech.

Yes really, go look at the SBs.

The Falcon Eyrie were holding their own against the FedCom force and weren't pressing their advantage because they were waiting for the Falcon Guard- which IS intel had failed to inform them was there- got into position to flank and annihilate them.

But for Kai fiat killing the entire Falcon Guard at once, two Clan Clusters, one of which was extremely poorly staffed and equipped, would have slaughtered two full RCTs and a third of the Kell Hounds' first regiment.

And then a year later, the Steel Vipers showed up with two Clusters and shattered the two RCTs that had been fortifying their position for over a year in a few hours of combat.

There is a reason the IS didn't bother with counter-attacks. They needed three top-flight Regiments or so to take on a bunch of Clan newbies in shit machines, and even if they got lucky and that was all the Clans had on a world it didn't take much to turf them off it again.

>>52018582

>And look at the cost to the Dracs to do that.

So what? They have trillions of citizens, they can absorb losses like that.Whats a gentle caress to a successort state is a crippling shock to a clan.

>and that the other Clans were just as retarded as the Jags

Do they hold up the whole zellbrigen and caste system shit? Then yes, Nicholas' furry fantasy will lose out.

>Or we could look at battles during the '60s where a single Clan Cluster would smash an IS regiment with supporting forces.

So? This is the clanner thinking of honor duels again. They can smash a regiment, but the IS can produce a hundred for every clan cluster.


>Or how Serpent sent ~10 of the finest 'Mech regiments in the Sphere to Huntress,

That was explicitly a long-distance surgical strike with no way to resupply them and it DID kill a clan completely. Militarily, culturally, economically.

>fought 3 or less Clusters of 'Mechs


Two galaxies and an ad-hoc one retreating from the IS more like. Not even counting the command trinary and other shit Osis had.

>If you want to reject the fluff

By the fluff turn into jokes like "escorpion imperio". By the fluff they wouldnt even got to Rasalhague before they collapse but we chose to ignore that.

>>52018608
>And after the that clans suddenly turned into retards and got creampied at Tukayyid by absoute greens who never fought a war before.
The trick on Tukayyid is that the ComGuard may have been green pilots, but the Clans were green strategists. Spider holes, burning forests and fields with Clan units, generally fucking over the enemy's already insufficient supply lines... Focht made a credible effort to gut the Clans right there, and frankly did. The Clans never recovered from the Truce.

>>52018582
>Or we could look at battles during the '60s where a single Clan Cluster would smash an IS regiment with supporting forces. Or how Serpent sent ~10 of the finest 'Mech regiments in the Sphere to Huntress, fought 3 or less Clusters of 'Mechs, mostly of IS salvage, and were absolutely savaged by the time they finally did win. Or the Jihad, where the same shit happens.

You seem like an illiterate moron.

The Jaguars had SIX clusters on Huntress, not counting at least a cluster's worth of sibkos about to trial and their instructors. Or two galaxy command trinaries of omnimechs. Plus protomechs. Only two of the six clusters on planet consisted of inner sphere mechs. Task Force Serpent had about nine regiments of mechs altogether. The Jaguars brought six clusters of all omnis and IICs in their counterattack.

FFS know what you're talking about before you open your flapping lips about others rejecting fluff.

>>52018608

>You can chalk those early successes up to clan elite clusters meeting with undersupplied, third-rate periphery garrisons first reeling from the shock of an invasion.

You really need to have a look at the source material. Clan forces were running roughshod over Veteran and Elite IS units even in the first few waves.

Omnis and BA didn't do much. WarShips even less, the navies of the nations facing the Clans were tiny and would be schooled by Clan vessels.

>>52018685

>So? This is the clanner thinking of honor duels again. They can smash a regiment, but the IS can produce a hundred for every clan cluster.

Holy shit. Have you ever read a BT sourcebook? Ever? This is complete and utter bullshit.

>>52018705

I'm aware of what they had there. But quite a lot of it was only a force on paper.

>>52018689

This. Context matters. Focht also terraformed the entire planet into a trap, doing shit like moving whole *cities* around. The win didn't come out of nowhere just because Clan retardation hurr durr.

>>52018685
Your entire argument is entirely contingent on ignoring FASAnomics, and once you do that you're functionally not talking about battletech any more, not really

>>52018708

>Omnis and BA didn't do much. WarShips even less

Thats the entire point. They didnt have them when the clans invaded and within ten years they had more omnis and warships then tha clans. The IS can outresearch and outproduce them, their only advantage went away.

>Holy shit. Have you ever read a BT sourcebook? Ever? This is complete and utter bullshit.


Literally all the clans together measure up to a billion total population. And they dont work together.

>>52018754
>I'm aware of what they had there. But quite a lot of it was only a force on paper.

Uh, in your head canon? Because those troops are all accounted for down to the point in the closest thing to a Jaguar phonebook we ever got.
Granted, I shouldn't have called you names. You are right on your core points about Clan superiority. But TFS faced a big force.

>>52018796

>Thats the entire point. They didnt have them when the clans invaded and within ten years they had more omnis and warships then tha clans.

Hahahahahahahaha.

Wow.

You seriously believe this, don't you?

In 3060 the IS isn't even averaging a Battalion of Omnis per unit. Force-wide, the average is closer to 1 Company per Regiment. The Clans have *way* more than that.

Then there's WarShips. The Clans have the better part of 300 of them. Would you care to guess how many the IS has? Here's a hint. Not even close to that many.

>Literally all the clans together measure up to a billion total population. And they dont work together.

Which has precisely zero relevance to the arguments you're trying to make.

>>52018790

This. I mean if people want to argue that the IS should be able to make eleventy billion more of everything than they canonically did then fine, but at least acknowledge that's headcanon rather than what actually did happen.

>>52018689
>tfw Blake's Holy Warriors forever saved the Sphere from the prospect of Clan conquest and occupation

Give praise to Blake!

Can whoever is going to make the next thread make it a ComStar or Word of Blake themed edition?

>>52018919

>Which has precisely zero relevance to the arguments you're trying to make.


>1 billion divided into 17 constantly infighting

vs

>several trillions

Yeah nah, this is just clan fanboying or shitposting on purpose.

>>52018892

Hm. I thought the Jag forces on Huntress were running about 1 'Mech Trinary per Cluster and the rest were infantry or vees. Fair enough.

>>52018995
They should have been, I'll give you that. The inconsistencies we see with their equipment are annoying and frustrating. But in this regard, I chock up the TFS victory to the fact the solahma sought honorable death and they were up against folks like the ELH, Kathil Uhlans and Knights of the Inner Sphere.

In keeping with your point about Clan superiority, it's also worth saying that a mixed supernova of cadets and instructors basically wiped out half the 11th Lyran Guards and had to be stopped with an orbital bombardment.

>>52018968

It doesn't matter what the population sizes are. We know what the militaries involved looked like and what the actual rates of production were.

>>52019047

Yeah. I mean with the whole smuggling scheme to get anything for his troops I figured he was keeping it on the down low, not literally shipping three god damn regiments worth of salvage back to Huntress over the space of like two years. You'd think they would have noticed that.

Eh. It is what it is.

>>52018968
What part of FASAnomics don't you get? The IS acts as though it has literally 0.01% of the population it actually does, and that's that

>>52019283
I mean I'm sure they had a lot of salvage to work with but the numbers are impressive. What's most impressive is things like Snakes and Grand Titans squeaking in.

Even then there should have been at least a Galaxy of just vehicles and infantry *supporting* the mech solahma clusters. There were stated to be two galaxies of infantry solahma on Huntress before the smuggling op began.
Most I can guess is they were shipped off world to make up garrisons for places like Circe, Eden, Homer, Kirin, and all the myriad other holdings we were told the Jaguars didn't have until it became plot relevant for other clans to fight over them.

Is "Double Blind" the only novel that involves Word of Blake?

>>52019506

The ability to get that much salvage isn't as much of a mental stumbling block for me as Benjamin Howell being able to get enough contacts in the Sphere and along the Exodus Road to ship that much back to Huntress for "testing."

It also implies that if the Jags had so much salvage that 3 regiments could literally vanish with nobody any the wiser they should have been able to re-equip either from the salvage or just trading it to other Clans for new stuff.

Stuff like the Snake, Grand Titan, Nexus, Raijin, Wraith, Apollo, Grim Reaper, and Jackal making it to Huntress is dumber still though, definitely.

>>52019695

So things they could have nabbed during failed Combine-Comstar raids and during Bull Dog?

Also, would be interesting if the Capellans were shipping them that stuff in a bid to drag the conflict out on Huntress and ensure elements troublesome to Xin Shen were left bogged down in the conflict as long as possible.

>>52019695
My guess would be a good portion of the regular stuff was already sitting in depots and Howell just reallocated it because no one cared enough to check up. The rarest stuff I'd attribute to ComStar-backed merc raids in the mid 50s.

>>52019788
Bull Dog would be too late.

Next thread, can anyone who's downloaded the 2.5 pdf look over the quirk rules to see how adding them functions?

Warhammer or Marauder?

>>52019788
>>52019901

Thing is that they're of very recent manufacture, some only built for a year or so before Terra is lost to the WoB, or which were heavily restricted for sales by the FWL.

It's a bit like seeing a FWL force that consists of Devastators, Nightstars, and Falconers. You could have maybe one or two of those in a Battalion and nobody should really care but once you start getting that variety of new and limited designs it becomes a bit WTF.

Howell explains his scheme to Trent and says that they're all newly shipped back to Huntress from the IS under his command too so it has to be recent. I imagine the Jags long ago tapped out their caches due to their fucked up logistical situation too; certainly they weren't able to rebuild their forces using old stuff, any way.

>Also, would be interesting if the Capellans were shipping them that stuff in a bid to drag the conflict out on Huntress and ensure elements troublesome to Xin Shen were left bogged down in the conflict as long as possible.

What the literal fuck.

>>52020014
Warhammer for practicality, Marauder for looks and command style.

New thread
>>52020057

>>52020024
At least the weird ones were mostly one offs. I found no more than a trinary that didn't fit.

>>52018373
Shhh, don't ask inconvenient questions.

>>52004598
Stupid question from a stupid newbie. Who is Madcap? One of the new authors? And if so, are they any more stupid than the older stuff?