/btg/ Battletech General!

>>51955819
>no LRM fire

Come on son

Nice gif though

I updated too fast, here's the most recent revision of the Instructions.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/vua1w68mo7rf7n4/Against_the_Bot_Instructions_v2-1.pdf

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>>51955915
I will update the pastebin and stuff for the next thread when I get a shot.

Anyone got the latest TtS to share?

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>>51955819
WHERE IS YOUR SHELL NOW

>>51956182
This is so wrong, I adore it.

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Last thread was packed full of ATB questions, let's keep that going. Though I guess this question is more of a general BV question.

One of my missions wound up being a three way battle. With the exception of a lone Locust, it's just me and one of the OpFors. He's got just a hair under 12k BV left, while I've got 8k. Is that even worth fighting, or should I just cut my losses and run? I'd really like to get at the salvage that's left on the field, there's a LOT of good tech left.

Looking for a light or medium mech that can successfully hunt Clan lights. Suggestions?

>>51956238
Wolfhound.

>>51955819
That is undeniably the sexiest battletech mech that I have ever seen.

>>51956182
DELET THIS
[/spoiler]but give me a company of them first[/spoiler]

>>51956246
>Wolfhound

lol

No wolfhound has a weapon accurate enough to adequately hunt clan lights. It'll get ripped to shreds by a friggin' Dasher D

>>51956238

Wraith

>>51956199

Same guy here. :Lol, it's kind of a moot point now. The snow that's been falling has accumulated into deep snow and now none of my force can get away from all these jump equipped heavies the enemy has.

I don't suppose I'll be able to pay ransom and get my pilots back?

>>51956238

Wolverine-M, Wolverine-K, Osiris, Lightray, Buccaneer, Blitzkreig, PPC Uziel.

>>51956478
Fight the good fight and die with the enemy's heart in your hand
the bot is honestly pretty dumb, you should probably be able to pull this off, if you play it right

>>51956478
Remember that when they hit half of their starting BV remaining, you win and can end the game and claim all the salvage

>>51956528
>>51956476
>>51956246
Why is everyone suggesting IS mechs? The best thing to hunt a Clan light is another Clan light.

>>51956545
>>51956582

I'm doing a lot more damage to them than I thought I would at this point, but I'm fairly certain this is a wash at this point. The dice seem to be conspiring against me, and I'm a touch frustrated at this point and not playing my best. If I do pull it out, it's going to be a phyrric victory at best, several of my better pilots have been killed at this point.

If nothing else I'll take what I've learned about the campaign system and rock the next one.

Also, winning at half their starting BV remaining... this, I did not know. How does that work?

>>51956749

You either set it up in victory conditions in MM or you just wait until you see half the enemy BV gone and type /victory and the bot'll auto-declare defeat.

>>51956766

I always noticed the victory conditions listed in the mission types, but never bothered to set them. It always seemed to me like I'd lose out on too much potential salvage by just cutting the game there.

It'd be useful in this situation, though, if I took the enemy down that far.

The final result, total defeat for my merc company, and not enough assets left to be a viable combat force. Oprita Reyes, the pilot of my Stalker, gets MVP points though for taking down 7 'Mechs in that battle (and three of them solo when she was the last woman standing on my side) before finally being forced to eject, followed by a PPC execution.

They took her in the end, but she made them pay for it in blood. Just the way it should be.

>>51957062
You realize you're not limited to the forces it gives you right? You also realize that you don't have to just feed the bot kills, also, yes? Type /defeat and walk away. Or /victory and cheese it.

>I always noticed the victory conditions listed in the mission types, but never bothered to set them.
You're supposed to do that. That's why it gives you the damn conditions.

>>51957170

Not that guy but I don't use them either. It seems silly to have a battle just suddenly cut out when this magical number is reached, rather than the enemy having to actually withdraw under fire.

Unless it's a Clan-Clan battle, and honor rules (if they're being followed) says you have to let your opponent go when they admit defeat.

>>51957257
MegaMek doesn't support force withdrawal very well. That condition is just so you're not trapped in a game where you're losing your whole company because your or the bot are too stubborn and stupid to pull back after losing half your force.

>>51956199
>>51956582

Keep in mind that you only get salvage if your side "controls the field after the battle" according to the scenario rules - some scenarios don't give you control even if you are the "winner" (ex. Chase battles as the runner).

Also, opinions vary but according to the rules creator, the original intention of "Destroy X%" is by number of units, not BV. It's quite possible to run your campaign using BV percentages, but this can result in some games where nothing actually dies (BV being reduced by bad damage).

>>51957257
One option is to use "/kick" to kick the enemy bot player, then replace the kicked player with a bot set to "Escape" objectives. This helps to simulate a rout, if you'd rather not just /victory or feel it's unrealistic.

Again, not all scenario types give you salvage even if you are the winner - most of the specific scenario conditions are actually not automated but rely on self-reporting/monitoring.

You're free to just play a kill 'em all campaign of course but the rules system assumes you aren't always getting salvage; that's just part of the ups and downs of mercenary life.

Do the FWL, LC, DC, etc get access to precision AC ammo, AP ammo, all that? Or is it limited to the FS?

>>51957865
Yes, they're available to literally everyone

>>51957865

Not until late in the Jihad, if that.

Stealth Armour and alternate A/C ammo were, surprise surprise, both held close to the inventing factions.

Meanwhile stuff invented by the Lyrans, Dracs, and FWL gets shared pretty much immediately.

>>51957170
In his defence, it's not exactly obvious from the documentation which parts of the ruleset are automated and which are not; there's not really much of an introduction, and even the threads or the very helpful settings PDF doesn't actually explain what an Against-the-Bot Campaign gameflow actually is supposed to look like. It definitely took me a few missions before the ruleset started to click.

If I wanted to intensely spite Harmony Gold and Palladium and use modified Battletech to run Robotech fights on the table, how would you guys suggest statting the various Zentraedi battle pods?

>>51958485
Glaug would obviously be a marauder

>>51958485
Large engines, twin LPPCs and virtually no armor for the standard TBP.
Fuck, a fast XL Locust -1M with a small cockpit and the LRMs and ML traded for LPPCs would actually be perfectly representative.
As for the officer's pod, I'm thinkin a very fast XXL light-medium with two LPPCs and an ERPPC
Alternately, replace the LPPCs with CERMLs and use EVEN BIGGER engines
Armor is the last priority

Zents are all about fast as balls but extremely easy to kill if you can hit em

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>>51958485
>how would you guys suggest statting the various Zentraedi battle pods?
This is the sheet for the Regult artillery pod. Basically the Ostroc and Ostsol are based off of really, really shitty copies of the original Regult art from only one angle.

>>51959402

That was me. It does look much better. It's not your fault, but I think the real core issue is that the girl is sitting in a deep shadow while wearing a black garment. Generally the focus of a pin-up style image is the pin-up, and it's hard to actually see her in the picture due to the composition.

I LIKE the image. She's just hard to see.

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Somebody last thread requested I lighten this up a little. Hope this will suffice. I didn't want to take it too far.

EDIT: Also blurred the 'Mech Bay area a little to help set the focus of the image a bit better.

>>51959425
Glad it looks better. Sorry for the repost/post deletion, but I forgot I also did a version with the blur and wanted to post that.

>>51959426
>let's put red and black on top of red and black

Give her a red suit and black hair or something at least, she's basically got mimetic armor on at the moment.

>>51959783
I didn't draw her I just shooped the thing together. Recoloring her outfit is kinda beyond me at the moment. It's weird; I don't personally find her hard to see but maybe my monitor settings are different or something. I can see how it could be a problem.

I'll see what I can do about it but I'm not sure it'll be much.

>>51959812

She's not hard to see if you don't have shoddy nerd vision.

How bad of an idea would it be to go up against the Clans on my first contract? Only 20% salvage rights, but circa 3052, even that sounds like it just might be worth the risk.

>>51960545
What's your overall unit size, skill and upgrade rating, and enemy skills/quality? If you're not veterans with decent mechs fighting Green Clanners, you may be in for a rough time.

>>51960545
Depends on how you're playing. Old school, the refit kits are just going out that spring to upgrade from grogtech. That means you're boys likely are very low upgrade level.

Then you need to take your force size, composition, and the enemy force into account.

>>51960559

12 mechs (1 assault, 2 heavy, 7 medium, 2 light)
4 vet pilots, 3 green, rest regular
Upgrade rating is... uh... I don't actually know.
Enemy is Green/D, according to the contract screen.

So I'm assuming probably not worth the risk, now that I think about it...

>>51960613
You'll see some Clan mechs, but not a lot. If it's a short contract, you may be able to handle it, but if you're only a company, it's not worth it. Unless you're sure you can take on a shitload of Clanners anyway.

>>51960613

Your whole company together is going to struggle to take on a medium star (Mad Cat, Stormcrow Stormcrow, Dragonfly, Adder). So you probably want to think twice.

>>51960817
It's a solid point. The Veteran lance with 2 heavies, an assault and a medium can likely take out Green clanners however, because Green clanners don't get modern omnimechs.

Green clanners are 40 year olds with parksons disease in the worst SLDF 'mechs and Garbage IIC made for suicide.

>>51960998
The D rating they have means that the Clan units will have one or two Omnimechs per binary/trinary, usually. The rest are good, though not outstanding, Royal rides. Also, AtB treats the Rifleman IIC as garbage, so yeah.

>>51955915
CampaignAnon said:
Those rules are currently not implemented in MHQ, no. They're also pretty stifling, since you can have an Urbanmech lance assigned to scout reinforce you, while a fight lance with 4 Falconers can't.

--

I rationalise it this way.

No matter the composition of the lance, I suppose they are deployed on a specific 'sector'. They have the same chance to 'spot' a nearby conflict (ie a 6 if a fight lance, or 5-6 for a scout lance).

If they do spot the conflict and reinforce, a Falconer lance will arrive a lot faster than the Urbamech lance, hence their advantage.

>>51955915
I am also partial to diverting from 'official' atb rules.

I would have used the 10% of merc company as starting capital atb rule and just stated that you can use a different amount, instead of what's written in the pdf.

Which leads me to my next point, loans. You mentioned loads very briefly though, but never elaborated)

Also, from personal experience, it's a little ambiguous what you should do in order to get the second contract. Stay in the current planet you already are? Or travel to a hiring hall? Although it's sensible to travel to a hiring hall, the costs for doing this would be enormous tho.

>>51961452
>Which leads me to my next point, loans. You mentioned loads very briefly though, but never elaborated.
That's because information on Loans are in both Campaign Operations and FM: Mercenaries revised and take up a shitload of space. I guess I could put a page reference for the relevant sections, but at some point people are going to have to refer to the books.

>Also, from personal experience, it's a little ambiguous what you should do in order to get the second contract. Stay in the current planet you already are? Or travel to a hiring hall? Although it's sensible to travel to a hiring hall, the costs for doing this would be enormous tho.
Technically, you're supposed to do the latter by fluff. But this is a waste, and barring being insane enough to transit across Clan OZ space, you should "communicate" with your hiring agent on Outreach or Galatea, then transit straight to your new contract objective. If you are swapping sides of the IS to fight the Clans, transit to a point that you can cut across.

>>51961100

Just to clarify, unless there's been a change very recently, it's more useful to say that omnimechs will be rare, but when do show up, have fun fighting a nova.

>>51955915
>http://www.mediafire.com/file/vua1w68mo7rf7n4/Against_the_Bot_Instructions_v2-1.pdf

Furthermore, i think a section regarding how you declare victory defeat and generally how to resolve the end of battle sequence, would be great.

>>51957786
Well to me BV being used as seems realistic as when your force starts taking too much damage, even if you don't lose anything on the field , that will still mean long time getting those mechs/tanks repaired and/or scrapped if they are damaged beyond repair.

>>51961504
>That's because information on Loans are in both Campaign Operations and FM: Mercenaries revised and take up a shitload of space. I guess I could put a page reference for the relevant sections, but at some point people are going to have to refer to the books.

I was talking about MekHQ loan mechanics, not actual rules.
How about this? I stole it from BT forum
" Next, take out a loan. You likely won't make it to your first planet without taking out a loan for transport and/or maintenance costs. Ensure your Collateral slider is at 100% and that you are repaying on a Quarterly basis when you do this (standard AtB ruleset here). You will be limited as to just how much you can take out."

>>51961730
Also a tip

Assing ranks to your officers. Captain or higher. This triggers the atb/mkehq to consider them officers mechanicaly. This way, when an officer that has veteran skill is leading a lance with green pilots in a training they will get 1 xp per week AUTOMATICALLY through MekHQ as was intended on atb.

>>51961730
Since I suggested first timers start with 20 million c-shekels, going over loans just to get to their first contract when they get their first mechs and pilots FOR FREE, seems redundant.

>>51961831
Okay so that's already in. I suggested giving Lance leaders ranks This is a general "how to" not "I'm a jellybrain, please give me advice on everything." I come from an old school learn by doing style of teaching. At some point, you have to let people sink or swim.

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Cheap tank with long fluff. I don't know why I find this so entertaining to do, but here I am doing it. And for some reason, I enjoy the challenge of designing light tanks that could steal market share from the Scorpion and Vedette, and be better machines overall.

>>51962620
>Cheap tank with long fluff. I don't know why I find this so entertaining to do, but here I am doing it. And for some reason, I enjoy the challenge of designing light tanks that could steal market share from the Scorpion and Vedette, and be better machines overall.

I know this feel. I also have a weird fetish to make something that resembles real world Russian BMP light tanks, kind of infantry fighting vehicles that can be mass produced and handle a little rough and tumble in battle. I don't have access to any of my files, but they are pretty much in the ball park of what you've done.

Weird question for anybody: What in Blake's glorious name is the reason for the Magi? I mean really. Is it a joke tank?

Eh, hello. Might I ask: Whats this?

Are anons running a merc campaign, or even worse/better, are anons running solo merc campaigns!?

>>51962877
Any chance you're the anon that posted the Amoeba tank a few threads back?

Along the lines of what you're talking about, I've also made up a bunch of super-cheap, low MP SPG-type units that usually only go 1/2 or 2/3 to match infantry speeds, have no turrets, and are basically independent crewed Field Guns in the 10-15 ton range. I think there's merit to the idea but again, I have a bias for cheap vees so the fact that they aren't really a thing in canon leads me to believe they'd be of negligible use in anything other than Periphery warfare post 2nd SW or so.

When you get access to your files, maybe toss something up? I'm always willing to give customs a read, no matter the era or niche. I wish we had more of the posted to be honest, though at this point, I feel like much of the custom scene has been "solved" in that most of the feasible combinations of weapons and concepts have been tried, so nothing really thrills anyone anymore enough to bother.

>>51962892
AtB? It's in the OP. It's a way to do one-player campaigns as a Merc unit, or if you want, a House or Pirate unit, though I think it's mostly meant for Merc stuff. There are a few PDF guide links in the thread, as well as instructions about where to get the programs necessary to try it yourself in the OP.

>>51962877
Oh, and on the subject of the Magi... I really can't tell you, honestly. 5/8 on a 70 ton machine eats up a lot of tonnage, even using an SFE, and it has two tons of MG ammo for some reason if I recall. So the 8.5 tons of armor isn't really that impressive. All I know is they spammed the shit out of them in the Reunification War, and so there are several running around in the Periphery, though at this point I think they are Cyclops-grade rare. I couldn't really tell you what they were thinking.

>>51963045
>Any chance you're the anon that posted the Amoeba tank a few threads back?

Nope. Not me. I like your idea. Having a tank / field gun in that weight range is a pretty interesting concept, something you would expect out of world with greater difficulties in producing other units.

I'll see what I can dig up later.

>>51963097
Yeah for me, for a while I thought it might have been the expensive Charger-mech version of a tank. Sure it can kind of close the distance with heavier units, but you're paying how much for a huge fusion engine to merely make what, a bloated slower Galleon?! You could manufacture an entire lance that could possibly move quicker, have better armor and could ML and MG spam to your heart's delight. It has boggled my puny little mind for years.

Thanks for the answer, bud.

Grasshopper or Guillotine?

Wasp or Stinger?

Jagermech or Rifleman?

Enforcer or Centurion?

Any other notable clones I'm missing?

>>51963234
Hatamoto-Chi and Thug.

>>51963234
Ostroc & Ostsol
Valkyrie and I think... is it the Hammer or Anvil from the FWL that pretty much is a variant of the Valkyrie?

>>51963234
>Enforcer or Centurion?
I think you mean Wolf Trap or Centurion.

Also, Ostroc and Ostsol basically have the Wasp/Stinger thing going on, making two separate mechs out of what could easily have been variants of one.

>>51963234
Jinggau and Scourge

>>51963234
Jenner and Havoc.

>>51963234

Enforcer and Enfield is the closer one, I think.

There's also Cronus and Wolverine for Introtech, though the upgraded one goes off in its own direction.

>>51962620

>single Medium Laser, single machine gun, single LRM 5
Bleh, it is like everything I hate about "all rounder" mech designs like the Shadowhawk.

>25 tons.

Alright then, nevermind, is fine.

Is ballistic-reinforced armor good for vees?

>>51962620
>LRMs
>cheaper than AC shells

Tim.... we gotta talk.

>>51963347
>I think you mean Wolf Trap or Centurion.
I feel that the Wolf Trap is a pretty damn good Centurion.

How do I correct the MUL?

>>51965060
Tell Xotl what's wrong and hopefully he'll get it past the others

>>51965080
Alright, sent him a message on the OF.

>>51965060
Fuck off medron

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>>51965332
Try and stop me.

>>51963234
LWB and Victor.

Fiddling with a /btg/RO design that's not quite clicking, so I figured I'd throw the brief out and see if anyone feels like taking a crack at it.

DESIGN BRIEF
FWLM is struggling to combat Wold Empire raiding stars consisting of Mechs like the Locust IIC, Fire Falcon, and most notably, the Wulfen. Most existing FWLM designs either can't reliably catch them, or can't win fights against them.

The QM turns to the scientists of the Clan Protectorate and asks them to develop a design to bully fast Clan lights. Your design should be able to chase down or keep up with the enemy units, cripple or kill them, and survive to file a report back at HQ.

>>51965456
Should I send this to the /btgro/ email or post it here? Should I provide fluff or do you already have that?

>>51965456
Also, what mixtech is available?

>>51965498
Can post it here. You can provide as much or as little fluff as you like.

Basically, there are a bunch of ways to approach achieving the design goal, and I can't settle on one of the different designs for this particular unit.

>>51965539
Whatever mixtech you want, I deliberately didn't put too many restrictions into the brief. I guess I would say that production bottlenecks would be Clan structural stuff (internals, engine, armor, DHS, etc) so the less of that the better. But beyond that do what you want. You do get a bonus point for mixing IS and Clan weapons effectively, though.

>>51965617
Alrighty. I've got two ideas in mind, which I'll get typed up when I'm home from work
Unless, do you know of any mech design software works on android?

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>>51962620

Two thumbs up. Good fluff work, decent design, and nods to real world history. I enjoy Vees quite a bit, especially the low cost budget options, and this fits in perfectly. I also have a weird fetish for tankettes which this comes damn close to being. Its probably why I love the Pizzaro from TRO 3063 so much.

>>51964740

25 tonners have no buisness carrying an AC around, especially not if they're already handicrippled by an ICE.

>>51966099
better use a thunderbolt then?

>>51962620
That's a nice little tank, I think I'm going to use it for my games, since I'm always looking for alternatives to the Vedette and scorpion

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>this is a clan tank

why are their vehicles so ugly?

>>51966284
Centuries of actual inbreeding

>>51966284
Because for centuries they didn't give a shit about them, excepting the Hell's Horses.

>>51966358
And the blood spirits, but everyone always forgets about them

AtB. Is there any point at all in giving non-Mechwarriors ranks?

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>>51965456

Ew.

That's a tall order, especially without trying to use Clan internals, due to the critical slot limitations. Here's my "poked at it for 5 minutes" submission.

Basically, the observations I have on the Wulfen are:
-It's extremely fast on open terrain. Matching it and still getting any reasonable payload requires similar tech (XXL, Clan ES, etc) so don't even try to match open terrain speed.
-A high movement mod and stealth armor, plus a long range payload in most configs means that trying to catch and overmatch it using long-range weapons is going to be a losing proposition.

Which means, then, a Mech intended to close the distance rapidly through broken terrain (IJJs) and then once you're at close range, you've removed the advantage of Stealth Armor. Now you have to deal with a movement modifier. Which means pulse lasers and an accuracy-enhancer. AES is both less heavy and less boring than a TComp. ER Pulse lasers have an extended short range, helping to nullify the Stealth. Finally, most configs of the Wulfen are energy-heavy (IIRC the ERLL, HLL, and triple ERML+JJs configs are most common, regardless of the UAC/2 version being the old Clicktech flagship model), so reflective armor is a clear choice.

I'm not happy using Clan ES, but with the critical slot limits, there's no other way to make it work. You HAVE to save mass to mount enough armor and payload after bumping your speed up that far.

The huge problem with this is that I don't actually think that there's a way to counter a Wulfen strategically on "infinite maps". It's functionally impossible to create a Mech that is outright faster AND which can carry enough of a payload to survive catching it; the best is to match up the speed. So as long as the Wulfen isn't in ridiculously-broken terrain, as long as it keeps just straight up running away, you aren't going to catch it.

Frankly, the best FWL unit against the Wulfen is a Stingray loaded with Thermobarics. Outrun THAT, tubebaby.

>>51966284
hate to break it to you but a lot of old BT designs are ugly

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>>51965456
here's a thing
it is a fast medium mech that can achieve speed higher than those it is supposed to hunt. If it can't outspeed the enemy the mech still have a high range weapon and a plasma cannon to (try to) overheat enemy mechs and make them slower (works as a "fuck you, Wulfen and your stealth armor" weapon too); at close range it has medium lasers

observations:
- the mech could be better protected using ferro-fibrous armor, but FL armor works great against the low damage weapons most light mechs use.
- since this is a Clan Protectorate mech I made it expensive (ferro-lamellor, courtesy of Sea Fox) and energy-weapons only (and hot, courtesy of former Nova Cats).
- I'e mixed regular and ER medium lasers just because, I don't remember seeing many mechs doing this

not a very well-thought mech

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>>51966284
>this is an inner sphere tank

why are their vehicles so ugly?

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>>51966752
>7/11/11
>...on a 50 tonner
All of my boners.
ALL of them.

>>51966880
>Fulcrum looks like a fulcrum

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>>51966880
They weren't designed by the Nip who made the Galleon art for Crusher Joe? I love that disposable little tank.

>>51965456
My best thought would be something with an artillery cannon of some sort and thermobarics.
Stealth and TMMs don't matter when I'm shooting your hex, asshole.
Frankly, a fast XXL light hovercraft with a supercharger would be a better platform than a mech

>>51966752
Why not a supercharged XXL over an XL?

>>51966963
>The QM turns to the scientists of the Clan Protectorate and asks them to develop a design to bully fast Clan lights. Your design should be able to chase down or keep up with the enemy units, cripple or kill them, and survive to file a report back at HQ.

>and survive to file a report back at HQ.

that's why

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>>51966284
>>51966880
>this is an inner sphere mech

why are their mechs so ugly?

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>>51967232
>>51966880
easy

Duane Loose is a hack

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>>51967232

No kidding. If more Battletech art looked good, like pic related, maybe the game would be more successful.

>>51966880
>>51967232
>when you trigger a furry

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>>51967232
Let's not start saying things we can't take back anon.

>>51967325

>>51967265 looks better. Fight me.

Fuck, this looks better than battletech's art. And we'd actually get more players by using it, too.

>>51966929
So a supercharged saladin slinging sawn-off Sniper thermobarics? I can dig it

>>51967265
>>51967347
yuck, leave and never come back

>>51966927
>thumper
>rawckets
>Tarcomp'd ERLLas plus C3i

These small things can be rather brutal.

>>51967265
This looks like a knock off of Virtual-On. I made a mech based on the Viper from that series because reasons. I always thought the main machine Temjin (I think that's its name) would make a great medium / heavy for BT.

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>>51967347

Trying to get a friend into Battletech.

I feel like Megamek is a little too much since they are interested but I don't want to scare them off by it looking too complicated at first.

Should I use tabletop sim and cut the rules back?

Did the Word of Blake ever capture the Crab factory on Northwind or were all their CRB-45s refits of existing Crabs?

>>51963251
>>51963311
>>51963347
>>51963362
>>51963370
>>51963506
Thanks for the additional comparisons, but I'm actually also interested in your answers to each of them too. Do you actually prefer the Grasshopper, or the Guillotine, and why? Same goes for the other similar 'mechs - if you had a choice between them, which would you prefer?

>>51968081
I prefer the grasshopper entirely because it has hands and the LL is in the CT

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>>51965617
>>51965456
Well, there's that horrifying Solaris piece of shit I posted last year. And hey, when it crashes into a wall at 230kph it only costs another 4m to buy another one.

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>>51966927
>They weren't designed by the Nip who made the Galleon art for Crusher Joe?
So, uh, you know that was Shoji "Designed more units for Battletech than anyone but Duane Loose" Kawamori, right?

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>>51968293
Seriously, Shoji Kawamori Design Works is like half of a TRO.

>>51968010

AFAIK the time they "held" Northwind it was mainly just a naval blockade. The Corsara factory there might have just been invoked in the fluff as a possible explanation rather than refits on another world or a Hidden World factory.

>>51968081

When the Enfield becomes available I prefer it to the Enforcer due to the DHS.

WVR-6M versus Cronus I don't really care too strongly one way or the other. The performance isn't radically different.

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>>51968312
Did I mention he also did all the Unseen for JP Battletech (right before he started in on Armored Core), plus his studio did the 3055 Unseen..

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>>51966284
Cannot unsee.

>>51961452
>Also, from personal experience, it's a little ambiguous what you should do in order to get the second contract. Stay in the current planet you already are? Or travel to a hiring hall? Although it's sensible to travel to a hiring hall, the costs for doing this would be enormous tho.
Like most things in ATB you're going to have to put on your GM hat and tweak the game a bit based on the overall narrative you want to maintain. The core mechanics for mekhq and atb are a good framework but they are a bit "dry" and don't always make sense. Ideally you should always be travelling back to Galatea or Outreach between campaigns but the game only covers transport costs one-way. The simplest method is to just have your employer reimburse you for half or all of the cost based on the transport clause % in your contract. (you have to do this manually by adding funds on the finance page). Until you own your own set, the jumpship and dropships that brought you to a contract are likely also mercenaries, so they would happily take you wherever you want to go as long as someone foots the bill.

You can also determine what happens after a contract based on context. If you successfully garrison or defend a world your employer should be more than happy to let you camp there for a few months while you wait for new offers on the job market and repair your equipment. If you just wrapped up a successful invasion or raid, your employer should at the very least give you a lift to the nearest friendly or neutral system so you are not stranded in hostile territory.

And of course, if you only have a limited amount of time to play MekHQ and you would rather spend it on battles instead of paperwork, you can always just cut to the chase and hit the GM button on the contract market that generates more offers until you find one that you like

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>>51968293
>>51968312
>>51968333
Exactly. That guy is really gifted. He did Macross, did he not? I forget. Anyhow it's the original BT 2nd Edition box set that really started my fire for BT and mechs in general. Well that and something else.

>>51967896
Use the introductory ruleset for tabletop.

So I've tried and failed, if I may be so bold a design challenge.

The fluff: You are the CEO of one of the major production factories, your nephew is one of the major generals in a house army (pick the one you hate most) shady back door deals happen and you get a contract to build a mech that's off the line, pirate protecting back water worlds but "up to date" (in the dark age) your company has sole rights for replacement parts.

So, cook up a bug with Dark Age toys and as zombie as possible.

Is this stupid as sin? Yes. I'm just stuck trying to cook anything comical up.

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>>51968469
>He did Macross, did he not?

Macross series is the one he keeps on doing throughout the years (new one is slated for 2018, get hyp!).
However, the guy has done far more great mechanical designs aside from that.
Later 90s mech games have a lot of his shit in them. Basically all of Armored Core and Omega Boost.
He also did great ones like Escaflowne, Eureka 7 designs (beautifully animated mechs on flying surf boards).

>>51967265
Well, the problem here is that while those designs are definitely miles ahead of most Battletech art, it also means they couldn't really be used in the game.

Garbage designs with shoddy art is what defines the setting just like Warhammer 40k is known for its extremely over-designed miniatures, or Star Trek for its sleekness.

>>51967347
>That Symbiotic Titan-like Pinkie.
Too bad there's so little art combining mechanical design and MLP out there.

>>51967896
Start with the intro rules, not megamek.

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>>51968360
Well, there's actually a lot of precedent for companies keeping a "headhunter" on retainer who chills out for you on Outreach and/or Galatea to HPG you contract info. There's rules in the original Mercenaries books, and it makes a lot of sense from a GMing perspective too.

I'd have one guy set to Admin without a "proper" assignment per world to represent the Hiring agent's salary. Or just throw a couple G-notes into the trash every time you buy up a contract, it's about the same thing.


>>51968469
> He did Macross, did he not?
Ironically, you posted one of the things he >didn't< do. Kazutaka Miyatake did the Destroids, all the ships, the conventional UEDF fighters, and the Zentraedi infantry and powered armor.

Kawamori only handled Valkyries and Zentraedi Battlepods for Macross. Still, that's all of the following designs:
Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie, Phoenix Hawk, Chameleon, Crusader, Marauder, MAD-2, all three LAMS, and all the Osts.

Dude is insanely prolific.

PLaying atb mekhq and I get this torso that I can't repair. Why?

http://prntscr.com/eetf0l

>>51968935
IIRC if you fail enough repair rolls for a part you can't repair it anymore and have to scrap and replace it.

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Speaking of giant robot designs.
Have you guys seen/talked about the new Weta robots and their game?

>>51968675
Surf boards. Is this TMNT with robots? Ha.
>>51968865
I see. Anyhow his art, and that other always impressed me with the level of detail. It kind of made the impression on me that this is the difference between a product for little kids like maybe a robot in a cartoon such as He-man and a professional product trying to be taken seriously.

Also how many of us have used the female power armor that you posted and tried to make a 80-ton or such assault with? I admit I have.

>>51968749
>Garbage designs with shoddy art is what defines the setting

Stupidest shit I've read in this thread, and you all like to write stupid shit.

>>51969072
You are correct but I can't even scrap it.

"Mech Center torso cannot be scrapped" is all I am getting.

Had the same thing happen to a LEFT torso, but I got the prompt "You need to remove the LEFT arm first", which I did and everything went smoothly.

But it seems, it is not working on Center Torso?

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>>51969138
I could bet actual money on the fact there is almost no franchise in existence with such a sheer amount of redesigned fan art.
Basically all everyone ever does is trying to "correct" every mech ever to show up in the universe.
This has been going on for literal decades at this point.

The fact none of those redrawings ever stick around is a testament to the fact that the challenge of coming up with your own way of unfucking stuff up is a big part of the IP's appeal.

>>51969309
In GM mode, just right click it and autocomplete the repair m it's a glitch

>>51969372
>that pic
>that text
Are you subtly shitting on based dildochan? Fuck you anon, dildomech is best mech.

>>51969309
>"Mech Center torso cannot be scrapped" is all I am getting.
Yeah, once the CT is gone the 'Mech is garbage. Strip her and sell the hulk, she's destroyed.

>>51969127
Oh lord yes. The FPA is an interesting case, since it's got massive rocket packs in the knees. Last time I tried it was some Blaketech monstrosity with MMLs in the legs, RACs in the arms, and a disgusting IJJ/Partial Wing range.

>>51969536
I guess you are referring to the Truly Destroyed rule. But it's not totally gone. There is still some interior armor in there

>>51969937
The CT can never be removed, scrapped, or replaced; it's the last thing that's always left of a 'mech. If you want to get rid of the 'mech, you can sell it at that point.

A 'mech that's missing the centre torso is always considered salvage and can never be repaired to working condition.

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>>51965456
>>51965617
I came up with a much stranger design to answer this challenge. But that's sort of what I enjoy doing. If for some strange reason you like this, I'll happily fluff it out to the fullest extent you need.

>>51970201
It's too bad you can't get thermobaric rounds for mech mortars

Can you use TAG to target a hex rather than a unit?

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>>51969487

>>51970250

Q: Can I do <thing that would make artillery more reliable and useful>?
A: No.

AFAIK the only time you can designate a hex with TAG is orbital artillery. Homing Arrow and Copperhead rounds target units rather than hexes.

I'm trying to figure out SRM setups on various 'mechs. Let's say I have 6 tons that I want to use for SRM-type weapons. Should I get...

-6 SRM-2s?

-3 SRM 4s?

-2 SRM 6s?

-4 Streak SRM-2s?

-2 Streak SRM-4s?

-1 Streak SRM-6? (and save the 1.5 tons for something else)

It seems that a larger number of smaller launchers gives you versatility, of course, since you can split fire. The Streak SRM-2 option seems best for raw firepower as well, but all the Streak options mean you miss out on special SRM munitions (of which Infernos seem to be the only worthwhile idea).

The other obvious differences of course are crit space and heat generation, but I'm trying to figure out which will work best for damage, especially when comparing regular SRMs.

>>51970345
Triple standard 4s are your best bet unless you're using Art IV

>>51970250
>>51970329

Stupidest fucking rule in the universe.

I'm always against the "realism" fags in a giant robot game but this is such a blunt and crude way to avoid artillery as being powerful as it would actually be,

>>51970412

I can actually understand the reasoning there really. Guided munitions homing in on TAG to attack hexes would be absolutely brutal, to the point that there would be few if any reasons not to take a couple of expendable spotters and then an artillery park with the rest of your BV and then delete entire Lances at a time.

I get why people want more realism (or what they perceive as realism) in the game but there are still issues of balance and fun to consider.

>>51970497

This is a reason why modern warfare is essentially artillery duels, cruise missiles and aistrikes.

You cant really have "honorable" mech to mech combat when some asshat thirty miles away can easily bombard your shit shit away.

Air combat is also laughably close range in battletech but thats a whole another can of worms.

>>51966099
>>51966207
Use a LAC

>>51968544
>bug
>zombie

>>51969937
>I guess you are referring to the Truly Destroyed rule. But it's not totally gone. There is still some interior armor in there
It doesn't matter if there's still IS on the part if you can't repair it. Once an Elite tech fails his repair roll, the 'Mech is dead, end of story. The CT is the "heart" of a 'Mech and you have to buy a "new" 'Mech to get a replacement.

>>51969107
Came up last thread, but nobody really said anything.

>>51970972
You could call it Roach

>>51970201
Give me the strangeness

Is there any place to get an updated Master file for SSW? I know the main program hasn't been worked on in years, but it would be nice to have the DA designs at least.

>>51968312
I don't know if it the Siren or the Harpy, but I would swear I saw that fighter on the cover of an old Defender Atari game from back in the 1980s. I'm TOTALLY sure they got the rights to the license for that.

>>51970627

Then to keep things realistic, we shouldn't have Mechs at all.

I'm fine with forces made entirely of infantry spotters and dueling artillery and cruise missiles if it'll make things more realistic.

>>51971044
Makes sense since "Turk" is taken.

>>51971212

You forget the gorillion layers of detection, counter-detection and counter-counter-detection and BVR dogfights with supersonic missiles. Maybe expand a bit and add missile destroyers that can bombard neighboring tables at tournaments within 150m range.

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>>51968544

Over 90 seconds in SSW and MS Paint.

Armored engine and gyro, ferro-lam armor and a decent amount, cERML in the RA so it feels like a bug, pretty crit-packed, and a 6 Jump so it feels like a bug. And yes, 30 tons is still a "bug" - Spiders exist.

The big question on whether it's more important to have a SFE so you can lose a torso but lose tonnage, or whether to have an XL for the tonnage advantage which you can use to buy more protective components (like reinforced structure). At this mass I don't see it matter that much, but it's a valid question.

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>>51968544
There's 2 good requirements for a bug. Disposable and cheap. So I threw the Zombie part out the window. Only 3.5 million Cbills for this bug built with reject Republic tech. That's barely more than two old Stingers. This thing is a proper mook.

It's battle value is pretty silly for what you get though.

>>51971383
>>51971729
These are fun as heck looking thanks!

I know the idea is pure trash and stupid but the story that popped in my mind would totally fit something this awful being made in universe (or ours sadly)

>>51966752
Yeah, it's a bitch ain't it?

I've basically been tossing up between 7/11 or 8/14 with a supercharger, to maintain contact for short periods, or high jet movement to keep up on turns and in terrain. Leaning slightly towards ground speed, as it's a little easier to hit than when you're bouncing around on top of all the mods the Wulfen is racking up.

On the other hand, you put an extra 3 jet MP on there. I'd been going 5/8/8. Those three extra jump MP feel gooooood.

I've actually been testing out a couple of designs with a snubbie+capacitor and tcomp. Not quite as easy to hit as with a cLPL at most ranges, but you do get an important window between 7-9 and when you hit, you fuck the Wulfen right up. Goes to internals on every single location in a single shot and, most importantly, you blow the arms off instantly, and since the Wulfen carries most weapons in the arms...

>Frankly, the best FWL unit against the Wulfen is a Stingray loaded with Thermobarics. Outrun THAT, tubebaby.

Why mess around with piddly little thermobarics? Now they've rejoined, let the Regulans loose on them. It'll be a lot easier to hit Wulfens when they glow in the dark.

>>51966840
The plasma cannon is a neat way to soft-counter the Wulfen, forcing it to slow down and/or back off to shed heat.

>>51966929
Yeah but when has that ever stopped anyone from making a mech for the job anyways?

>>51968255
heh. Here little wolfie...

The problem with that one is the "filing a report back at HQ" part

>>51970201
IIRC they nerfed mortars shooting AoE, will have to check though.

>For Xotl, when you're around next:
>In a post on the OF, you said that rules for creating TAG infantry are on the same page as the specialized infantry types, 341 of TacOps. I checked TacOps and the errata and there's no mention of TAG infantry at all. Was that a goof or is it somewhere I'm just blind to?

Sorry, was away for a while. You need to have the second printing to see the rules in print; they're on p. 341 in that case. Otherwise it's on p. 63 of the full v3.5 TO errata.

>>51971729
Hyper Laser? Can't say I've ever seen that before. What's it do?

>>51971964
It's 20 damage out to 25 range, but has a 1/13 chance to explode when used. Perfect thing to throw on an expendable machine.

>>51972002
*1/18 chance I mean.

>>51971844
Why not a tarcomp'd capp'd CERPPC over the snub? You could roast legs off in one hit with that, right?

>>51972002

How do you plan to hit with it?

At long range, a Wulfen is going to get a +4 TMM, a +2 for stealth, and a+4 for range in basically every reasonable circumstance. That's +10 over your gunnery score. Auto-miss.

At medium range, drop the range penalty by 2 and the stealth penalty by 1, so you're hitting at +7 over your gunnery score. Which means you're hitting on 11s at best while standing still, and any terrain at all will completely fuck you. Likewise, you auto-miss if you run to actually catch up to the thing.

The only way to deal with the Wulfen is to close to short range with an extra-accurate weapon battery. Or target the hex its in with AOE weapons. A hyper laser isn't going to cut it.

>>51972123

Fuck, I'm sorry. I got the design challenges mixed up. Thought you were entering the anti-Wulfen challenge, not the zombie bug challenge.

>>51972123
That's not for the Wulfen-hunter challenge, that's for the DA Bug.

>>51972002
>>51972073
What kind of military would ever find that acceptable? It's fucking suicidal.

>>51972350

DCMS

>>51972350
The same people who think MASC and HVACs are a good idea?

>>51972398
What's wrong with MASC?

>playing a guy tomorrow who is running with a Level II of just Wraiths

How would you counter this?

>>51972403
Makes you immobile if it fails

>>51972350
A fictional military one, that fights wars inside giant robots that fall on their knees after one minute of fight

>>51972092
mostly because cERPPCs get enough love already. Same reason I've been shying away from the cLPL to an extent.

There are quite a few /btg/RO designs where we've had to restrain ourselves from just slapping an cERPPC on there and calling it a day. CA's mechfu (the clan one, he has a herm) comes to mind - why use a Gauss rifle when could get a cERPPC?

>>51972398
>HVACs

iHVAC when

>>51972542
Join 'em

>>51972542
Artillery cannons, Thunder LRMs, SBGRs, LPLs, TarComp'd GRs/capped PPCs and TarComp'd precision ammo

>>51972594
>he has a herm

Correction: harem, not a hermaphrodite (that would be a quad vee).

>>51972636
>that would be a quad vee
I thought LAMs were herms

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>>51972621
Gave me an amusing idea for a Wulfen-killer

>>51972794
That makes me chuckle anon.

>>51968766
>>51968470
There are introductory rules?

Shit I didn't know that.

Where do the Irish in Space live in BattleTech?

>>51973977
Way too many of them. Them and Scots. It's like Star Wars stole all the English space people.

>>51973977
In space pubs.

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>>51971212
>>51971348
Pic related? Even uses d6s too!

>>51973977
The FedSuns has a lot of Irish and Scots in it.

>>51974063
Good.

>>51974063
Any examples of Irish worlds?

I know Skye, Northwind, Stewart, New St Andrews, Argyle, etc are Space Scotland.

>>51974063
I've never quite understood why there are so many Scots in Battletech. Almost all the mercenary books are rife with them (along with the full on Northwind Highlanders, there's tons of Scottish people in the Gray Death Legion books as well) Is this just a case where the creators just had more firsthand experience and inserted the culture more gratuitously?

>>51974121
Caledonia, from the Gray Death Legion books.

>>51971219
>days without /pol/ banter in /btg/: 0
Granted, there's a lot about Battletech (especially in the pre-game storyline) that /pol/ would love.

>>51974140
>just had more firsthand experience

FASA was a bunch of nerds in Washington State. Scots got picked for the same reason most Americans in foreign works are Texans.

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>>51974192
qq more fukboi

>>51974140
One of the writers is a Scottish fanboy. Just like how one of the head game devs is a slavering Native American fanboy, hence the early Clans were basically primitive shamanistic warrior tribes that magically had all the best shit. Most of the really retarded examples of that got retconned or just toned down, but in the beginning it was there, and it made them even more jarring on their introduction.

>>51973977
Isn't that Skye?

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>>51974230
>implying I'm not going to make Terra great again.

>>51955819
What the ever-loving fuck happened to Solaris7, and where the fuck are the legacy TROs?

>>51974310
Hopefully George let that place burn to the ground.

>>51974140
Hey, even the Capellans get St. Ives. Can't have the Hundred Years War in space without giving everybody a little piece of the British Isles.

>>51974192
>/pol/ banter
Boogeyman much?

>>51974310
What's Solaris7?

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>>51971348
>>51971212
>>51974066

Ome of the things I'm working on for the next area BattleTech tournament is a pair of scenarios: one group is striking a Cruise Missile silo at store one, while the second group is playing another scenario in store two. Store two is something like three turns' flight time away by cruise missile...

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>>51974379
Like anyone not from the ME or from /pol/ is going to bring Turkroach bantz?

Also, I'm not necessarily even complaining. We've got a long and storied tradition of offending special snowflakes.

>>51974397
It was a site that had all the TROs uploaded. It was really handy.

You know what we need? Welsh and vietnamese planets, just to counter the bloody scots and chinamen

What might an "average" Canopian company look like? Homemade bugs and Shads, maybe a Marauder, a salvaged mech from the Liaos or Mariks, an SLDF legacy mech, and imports from the Taurians?

Interested in making a Canopian force. If the above is accurate, what might they import from the Bulls? And do either of those periphery states manufacture the Phoenix Hawk?

>>51974488
We have just about every battletech publication ever made in the OP mediafire links.

>>51974066
Pretty sure Harpoon's onto d% now.

>>51974529
>If the above is accurate, what might they import from the Bulls?
Griffins, Thunderbolts and Warhammers. Archers and Marauders could also be just as easily imports from them as anything else
Also, they'd probably have some Merlins imported from the OA,, as the taurians do
>And do either of those periphery states manufacture the Phoenix Hawk?
Not until the 60s or 70s, but they still had large numbers of old/captured/imported pixies hanging around before then. Same thing with Riflemen and Crusaders

>>51970238
Yeah it really is. MMs would get a pretty big shot in the arm from some more specialty ammo. Thunder Mortars would be lovely too.

>>51971094
You want some fluff? I can deliver if you give me some time.

>>51971844
I wasn't aware of any errata on MMs outside TacOps, but I could be wrong. Someone in TPTB has a hateboner for them, I think. Probably the dude who invented AMS.

>>51972794
Also made me chuckle, but that ammo endurance is pretty meh. Still, even when not Wulfen hunting, it's a bastard to other fast movers like hovers, WiGEs, and Fireballs.

>>51974529
The question is when?

Say in 3025, the average Canopian company is 90% bugs and they're selling almost all their new manufactured Shads to the Fedsuns at a huge markup and pocketing the cash.

They didn't deal with the Taurians until Detroit and the Fronc Colonies. They don't get new designs until then.

They had a stash of marauders and a few SLDF machines but like the successor states, the big boys were clustered together into heavy and assault forces for big battles so weren't scattered around piecemeal in the bug companies.

Canopians aren't a faction you play if you want variety, at least not in the early days.

As for the Phoenix Hawk, I believe they start making the Project Phoenix version themselves sometime in the mid-late 3060's, when they get access to a lot of other designs due to the Trinity Alliance.

>>51974688
I just want to see the strange designs. Fluff is welcome too though, love to see the zany stories people come up with.

>>51974529
My idea of a mostly fluff-accurate canopian company that still works on the table looks something like this
>4-5 bugs
>1-2 shads
>1 archer or crusader
>0-1 salvaged FWL or capellan medium (0-2 after Andurein for units involved)
>1-2 IS/periphery General mechs, medium or heavy (Rifleman, Pixie, Centurion, Dervish, Ost maybe? )
>0-2 Imports
>0-1 Stalker, Banshee, Striker, Longbow or Awesome
>0-1 old SLDF downgrade

>>51974737
Oh, what I posted was the strange design, sorry anon. I meant it was stranger than the other ideas people were having about TAC/SAC/LTACs and pulse spam and whatnot. But still, let me see what I can do about some fluff. Gimme some time.

>>51972794
>>51974688
I actually tested out a slightly modified version and those LAC5's were a lot meaner to the Wulfen than I thought they would be - I played the Wulfen, the bot got the "Wolf This", and the bot won. It has enough armor to shrug off some cERPPC shots and keep coming - I damaged it badly, but not enough to stop it from opening up a side torso and critting out the Wulfen's engine. It can't keep up forever in an endless world, but it can put the pressure on even in a 2x2 map sheet game, which for two mechs is reasonable.

Also, the Wulfen runs hot as balls.

>Someone in TPTB has a hateboner for them, I think.

Yes, I think someone does really hate mech mortars, for some reason.

>>51974707
>>51974707
>Say in 3025, the average Canopian company is 90% bugs and they're selling almost all their new manufactured Shads to the Fedsuns at a huge markup and pocketing the cash.
That's WAY too fucking high. Even at it's most absurdly dire the OA was only fielding 65% bugs.
I'd say about 40-50% would be more accurate considering just how little turnover periphery armies, especially the canopians, would see up to Andurein.
>They didn't deal with the Taurians until Detroit and the Fronc Colonies
They definitely had trade deals before then, I'm pretty sure it's even in periphery 1e

>>51974823
You gonna test all the submissions? Some performance reports would be neat to compare ad contrast at the end of the day. Which Wulfen did you use for the test?

>>51974707
>>51974830
90% bugs makes sense for those two regiments they formed in the 30s and 40s and the ones rebuilt after getting wrecked by the CC, but the rest should probably be half that or so

>>51974869
>>51974823
Derp, for some reason I completely glossed over the "cERPPC" thing. Reading comprehension is important.

>>51974830
>They definitely had trade deals before then, I'm pretty sure it's even in periphery 1e

It's not. Their closest trade ties are to the Federated Suns and the Lyran Commonwealth. Everything with the Taurians is about joint space exploration and colonization

Considering the utterly dire state of the MAF without Kit Sheng magic, how badly do you figure the MAF would have done in the jihad if the trinity alliance never occurred?

>>51974916
>>51974869
Eh, not necessarily. For example, I know how >>51968255 or >>51966752 will perform once I see them, even if I wouldn't have made that design on my own. But I might try out >>51966840 to see just how well the Plasma Cannon does at slowing the Wulfen down, or >>51970201 to see if the Mech Mortar can effectively interdict.

I do test everything and fine tune it once I've got a pretty good idea of the core elements of the design. For example I was testing a mech before we sent it off to Plog for art and I realized it needed to be bumped up in tonnage because the IS was too low to do something it needed to do.

>>51964740
Well, the AC/5 is 125,000 Cbills up front, with 4.5k Cbills/ton of ammo. LRM 5 is 30k up front, and 30k per ton of reloads. So, assuming each comes with a full bin from the manufacturer, you get to buy 3 tons of reloads for the LRM before it catches up to the cost of the AC/5. Seems like an okay value to me. The increased shots/ton and the ability to lay mines and stuff is also a big deal, and while the AC/5 has specialty ammo in its own right, it's not quite as flexible over all.

>>51966076
Thanks a lot anon, it's nice when someone appreciates the effort.
>Pizarro
Adorable. I haven't read 3063 too much, but maybe I should go through it with more than a cursory glance this time.

>>51966253
Go ahead man, let me know if it's properly mook-y.

>>51975037
I'm writing an AU that includes this sort of thing, and my answer is that from a pre-jihad strength of 20 house regiments, they'd walk out with about 6. I've only allocated one WoBM division and two Level IIIs of a Shadow Division to the Magistracy, and the answer is total slaughter.
Think about it, even with a decade of IS imports and upgrades, plus taurian help, they're still going to be in the main green troops and generally quite light.
A single Level III with standard WoBM gear and a veteran rating could chew up and spit out one of their average regiments with very little effort, let alone a MD unit.
I figure after the jihad they'd be reduced to a small cadre of tough, well-equipped survivors bolstered by hiring every mercenary they can get.

>>51963234
Cataphract and Hercules

>>51974463
I really, really, really like that picture. It could only be better if Chris Chan one of the people running from a modified Shad.

>>51975128
Eh, the AC 5 acutely does 5 damage when it hits. LRM 5 deals 5 max, but often less.

>>51975037
Even in the real timeline, they still got steamrolled by two WoB Divisions and the Magistrix driven out of her state into hiding on Sian for the better part of a decade.

I would guess without their magic, they would have gone the way of Circinus and become a full Wobbie state.

With the Coalition basically declaring victory and ignoring the rest of the Wobbies after Terra, you have to wonder how things would have shook out with the Regulans being the only ones still on the warpath.

My first instinct is to say TPtB would have written the battered Regulans teaming up with Xen Sheng because reasons and fighting a protracted war in that area of space until 3090'ish. The MoC would be so devastated that they would fold into the Capellan Confederation, and Sunny's secret rebuilt bases and factories out there plus Wobbietech would be the reason for the Confederation's armies in the DA instead of secret warehouses and stuff.

>>51975037
Considering the Circinus Federation was full Blakist at the time, I think they would have done very very poorly. Their manufacturing was weak, and their selection of 'Mechs was not very good, especially compared to the TC. And without the Trinity Alliance, the TC ain't gonna forget the fight they had around the 4th SW era, since they're basically the Dwarves of BT since they keep grudges for centuries. And lo and behold, the TC got presents from the Blakists to, so... yeah.

>>51975065
Yeah I'm curious about that Plasma Cannon too. I don't see them on many designs, probably because for utility purposes the Plasma Rifle is better, but that much heat on a Stealth unit is pretty disgusting. Honestly, as I said, I'd like to see how they all fare, but you do what you gotta do.

>>51974772
>>51974707

Jesus fuck. Not the guy asking, but even as a person who mains Dracs, that's just ridiculously bad. If I was handed a fluff-accurate MOC company built like that, I'd rather walk away from the table than bother wasting my time with that.

If that's the 3025 mech selection for the MOC, they might as well not exist at all. Get rid of the faction or figure out some sort of AU where they're not that completely useless.

>this really isn't a call to get rid of the MOC, but a faction that can't participate in the board game without either auto-losing or completely ignoring their own fluff is a faction that NEEDS to be removed or rennovated. It's just insulting and pointless otherwise.

>>51974707
Where's the Marauder stash meme come from? I can't find it in the original Periphery books.

>>51975185
Yeah, but that's why it's 2 tons. It loses a bit of long range firepower, gains medium range firepower, and loses the minimum where it's stuck with just an MG. I figured it was a better bracketing given where fights usually end up. Also remember the Seax is 5/8, which is a big deal too.

>>51975202
Periphery is as periphery does son. There's a reason they're not even on the 1987 big map of the Inner Sphere.

>>51974830
Where do you get the 65% figure from?

And maybe the turnover can be from lack of ability to maintain. If your factories can barely make new or heavy mechs you won't be well equipped to keep the foreign made ones you do have serviceable.

>>51975197
>the TC ain't gonna forget the fight they had around the 4th SW era
You're about three succession wars late on that one bud
Plus they and the taurians had a pretty strong deal on on the 50s before it was hijacked by xin sheng magic

>>51974772
I like this. I may use it.

>>51975151
>20 house regiments
How did they even get that with two mech factories making mostly bugs?

>>51975219
>>51975185
AC5 is 8 tons

Just take an LRM10 for 5 tons and use the other three for something else.

>>51975299
Ten years of their space amazon princess literally sucking Capellan dick.

>>51975237
>Where do you get the 65% figure from?
Periphery 1e has it
>>51975202
>If that's the 3025 mech selection for the MOC, they might as well not exist at all. Get rid of the faction or figure out some sort of AU where they're not that completely useless.
I honestly agree, the 3025 mech selections for the MoC and OA need a complete overhaul for playability reasons
(The TC doesn't need much, maybe a Stalker line and another medium)
Also play up the degree of export between the big three and suddenly they're much more fun
>>51975237
>And maybe the turnover can be from lack of ability to maintain. If your factories can barely make new or heavy mechs you won't be well equipped to keep the foreign made ones you do have serviceable.
The issue of being able to maintain shit you can't produce has always been a weird one in the fluff, ESPECIALLY in 3025

>>51975255
There's too much goddamn fluff in this game; shit runs together in my head all the time. Sorry about that. I thought their economic dealings were a grudging kinda thing though. Maybe I recalled that wrong too.

>>51975223

If that's what all the Periphery powers are like, then yeah, they need to be rennovated to be relevant, from top to bottom. Any and all of them that are hobbled by ridiculously restrictive mech selections. I don't even give a shit about existing fluff and "mah no retcons". Including any faction in a tabletop game and then making it functionally impossible to compete without plot magic is complete bullshit.

The MOC getting that sort of limit on mechs (and any other periphery power, for that matter), is like...well I don't know. Like having to play a Warmachine warjack-heavy faction with a warcaster with zero focus. Or having to play a 40K faction with zero access to weapons better than S3/AP6 whatsoever. Or playing a fighter in a D&D 3e game. Sure, you can sit at the table and technically be playing. But you won't have a chance of doing anything that matters bar unrepeatable dice luck.

That's some bullshit and insulting game design. Fuck FASA (I guess?) for writing it in the first place, and fuck CGL for not retconning the fuck out of it and continuing the bullshit.

>>51975335
>I thought their economic dealings were a grudging kinda thing though.

More like "You guys are assholes, but you're assholes like us." It's a devil you know kinda thing.

>>51975303
That's what one of the canon Scorpion variants does. LRM10, LRM5, and some ammo for both. Seax doesn't have the room for that given the 3 SHS it needs to have the ML and the larger engine it has as well.

>>51975299
>How did they even get that with two mech factories making mostly bugs?
>>51975320
>Ten years of their space amazon princess literally sucking Capellan dick.
Canonically they had 18 house regiments in 3058 BEFORE all that bullshit. Only adding two in a decade is actually slow for them
The most reasonable way I'd account for it would be buying out lots of those endless tiny merc units, plus bugs, plus imports

>>51975299

By the time of the Jihad, they've had factories capable of making more than just bugs and Shads for almost 20 years. 4-6 production lines on Detroit, and 5-6 production lines on Dunianshire and Canopus, all in addition to the Shad and bug lines. Plus importing a fuckton of Capellan Mechs as per the Trinity alliance.

Claiming the MOC is mostly Shads and bugs at the start of the Jihad is wrong on its face.

>>51975335
>There's too much goddamn fluff in this game

A-fucking-men, it's just a headache at this point.

>>51975202
Why the dramatic overreaction? Poor factions exist all over the map.

>>51975345
You're silly dude. You gonna complain about the mech selection of Wilson's Hussars next because the whole unit is completely spelled out and they're all half-functional wrecks minus like three machines?

Periphery are minor powers barely above pirates. That's how they've always been except the RWR. They're not supposed to be competitive in any way whatsoever with the Successor States in terms of numbers or variety. There's literally dozens of factions in the game and they're not all meant to be equal or viable as somebody's main "team"

>>51975369
How do you have an AC 5 but not tonnage for an LRM10?

>>51975335
>I thought their economic dealings were a grudging kinda thing though. Maybe I recalled that wrong too.
Not really. Give periphery 2e a read, it's a good look at the place before xin sheng and FM:P turned it upside down
For instance, did you know that the TC and MoC were in the opening stages of negotiating their own triple alliance with *St.Ives* before getting colemanned? Or that both of their leaders considered the CapCon the greatest threat to them?
Or that the taurian military actually hated their previous leader's anti-FS paranoia and thought it was all bullshit, to the point of removing him in a coup over it?

>>51975345
>he doesn't know how overpowered bug swarms are
>laughingbutalsosadclanners.png

>>51975378
>Canonically they had 18 house regiments in 3058 BEFORE all that bullshit.
Like how?
Three royal guard, three fusilier, three light horse, maybe the Canopian brigade and what Cassandra's Volunteers morphed into. Where's the other 7?

>>51975461
My tank doesn't have an AC/5. Go look upthread.

>>51975386
They had those magic appearing regiments well before Detroit.

>>51975479
>Or that the taurian military actually hated their previous leader's anti-FS paranoia and thought it was all bullshit, to the point of removing him in a coup over it?
This part I knew, as well as the part where they were in talks with the St. Ives Compact, but I had another reason in my head why that second bit was. Damn headcanon. Anyway, yeah, the coup and the group against the anti-FS stuff formed the Calderon Protectorate, one of my favorite factions in the late eras.

>>51975442
>Poor factions exist all over the map.

Yeah, no shit. I'm a Drac player.

>>51975443

There's a difference between equally viable and nonviable. Looking at what's being pointed out as a fluff-accurate list for Canopians (and evidently a bunch of other periphery factions), the MOC and all other others are outright nonviable in 3025.

Game balance and historical fluff are equally important. One is not an excuse to ignore the other. The MOC and other periphery powers can absolutely be boosted up from the complete shit status described in >>51974707 and >>51974772 and still be much less powerful and much more limited than the Successor states.

If we're on a scale from 1-10, the houses in 3025 are in the 7-10 range (Lyrans being a 9, Capellans a 7, Dracs an 8, and Suns being a 14, because of course they are). The Periphery states are 2s, with maybe the Taurians being a 3.

Bumping the periphery powers up to 5s (taurians being a 5.5-6) changes nothing, except making periphery states not complete wastes of time on the tabletop.

>>51975443
>Wilson's Hussars
>compared to an actual nation, even if only a Periphery nation

Seriously? Fuck off.

>>51975505
They had two Ravinthir Footmen regiments and a couple others who's names I don't recall.
Check pages 39-41 of P2e for a complete list
I'd copy it out but I'm about to fall asleep

>>51975549
One of the other big reversals was tech level; the TC and MoC went from "very close to reaching technological parity with the inner sphere" to "tying their shoes is lostech they'd have never recovered if it weren't for sun-tzu's benevolent penis"

>>51975345
>>51975574

I'm staying out of this one, except to say that, DracBuddy, you aren't going to get anywhere nor convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you. This is a battle line that people are irrationally ready to die upon.

Yes, bumping the Periphery Powers from "2's" up to "4's" and "5's" would make a better gameplay experience for literally everyone involved, and it wouldn't hurt the superiority of the Successor States in the slightest. No, that fact doesn't matter to a ton of people. You're contradicting the fluff they like and are invested in, and thus you are tilting at windmills. Good luck with that.

>>51975649
I have a question about the more WarShips/non-extinction AU you occasionally post about here. Would you also have them in the hands of mercenaries, pirates and minor powers or only for the IS and periphery big three?

>>51975574
>>compared to an actual nation, even if only a Periphery nation

Wilson's Hussars were big enough they could have conquered the Brotherhood of Randis. They were literally 1/3 the force of Redjack Ryan's band under contract in the 3010's.

They probably could have taken Circinus in 3025.

>>51975714
>They probably could have taken Circinus in 3025
Probably not, the federation had about a full regiment in decent shape around then

>>51975582
Oh yeah, those. The Raventhir Footmen/Cuirassiers and Magistracy Highlanders were part of their magic build up. At least four full regiments out of thin air with awful industry.

I mean I'm a Magistracy player, but I wish our successes were something more than obvious author favoritism without sense.

>>51975649
Honestly, the Periphery being the frontier and the ragged edge of civilization is its charm. And there's already been more than enough badly done chassis availability retcons for everyone to leave a bad taste in most people's mouths. Just look at how unpopular 3039 stuff is.

Speaking of better periphery industry, the mackie had better be one of those factories, because Best Mech should never die.
Also, the Osts, they'd make great periphery machines, give one to the MoC where it's one of their backbone troopers, and the other to the TC

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>>51975649
>This is a battle line that people are irrationally ready to die upon.

We are delighted to hear it. Fall on your sword.

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>>51975837
Anon, you are my hero for this post.

Have a Banshee on me.

>>51975803

>Just look at how unpopular 3039 stuff is

Why should anyone give a fuck about that again?

>>51975649
>my opinions are the only correct ones and it's everyone else who is too invested in their opinions and has problems

The weirdest thing about you, NEA, is how you're awesome on any topic but a faction you like. If we were talking about warships you'd be indispensable and practically required. But something like what they're debating comes up and you as much a faggot as any of the worst factionfags here.

>>51975803
I don't see how a gimped and unfun mech selection makes them feel any more frontier-like.

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>>51975848
>Anon, you are my hero for this post.

Hero? Thanks. It's not like I'm King of the Impossible.

Thanks for the Banshee, too - and it's the good one! Have some Unseen in return!

>>51975863
>unfun
Just stick to your gausswall games then.

>>51975863
Do you even know what a frontier is like? Because limited and difficult is pretty much in the marching orders.

>>51975854
I don't think I've ever seen a peripheryfag around here throw half as much of a fit as the
>Noo, the periphery MUST suck forever and everyone who disagrees is medron pryde
Crowd has

>>51974273
>Just like how one of the head game devs is a slavering Native American fanboy

This makes a lot of sense given that Shadowrun was also from the same company; although it's definitely a very specific sort of Native American fanboyism that completely ignores what real Native Americans were like.

>>51975713
>mercs
Absolutely not. At BEST, see the "pirates" entry, below.

>pirates
Yes. Which is already canon, actually. I think it was the Cameron-class that had the electrical issues? The power shut off mid-battle and the ship was destroyed by pirates...operating WarShips.

I'm not saying pirates should have a ton of them. Or that they shouldn't be so ramshackle they could be confused for 40K Ork vessels. But the occasional crew defecting or captured WarShip turing up in pirate hands isn't unreasonable. I just started watching The Expanse, actually, and there's a good analogy in there; a Mars-flagged gunship in the hands of the protagonists, which are pirates in all but name.

>minor powers
A few. Absolutely no way for them to compete with a Great House, but they could cause issues for a Periphery nation getting adventurous. Think Turkey or Brazil pre-WW1; they ended up with a comparatively tiny warship contingent (usually built on commission by a REAL naval power), but they did have the ships.

>>51975803
>the frontier and the ragged edge of civilization

I agree. I also personally would like to be able to play a true-to-fluff Periphery list from OA or MoC and be able to have a balanced game with a House player with a true-to-fluff list. Remember, to be true to fluff, you can't just make up your BV in bug swarms - you should have lesser Mechs *and* lesser numbers *and* greener pilots. Periphery should be Hard Mode, but it should not be "Impossible Mode", and right now in the 3025 era, it is.

I also get the aversion to availability retcons, though. I chalk this up as yet ANOTHER reason why BattleTech needs to be completely rebooted in the same spirit, but with actual game design theory in mind.

>>51975897
They don't suck forever. They get a bunch of access to new stuff in everything from the last 17 years of the game.

Crying about grogtech force charts is what's retarded. If you want to play periphery in 3025, you should be killing pirates or raiding shitty house backwaters who have a mech lance and some light tanks.

>>51975897
>suck
Seems to be the point of disagreement. Some players prefer flavor and challenge. Evidently the frontier periphery players here are those. It's not a bad thing.

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>>51975854

I didn't say I was any different. I'll certainly admit my mind is made up on this topic, and while I'd love to hear a countertheory that doesn't boil down to, "but the fluff says X", and/or "the Periphery is bad and their Mechs should always be bad", I haven't heard one yet. I would DEARLY love to hear a countertheory on why "limiting some factions so hard that anytime they play according to the designer's intent their loss is a foregone conclusion" is actually good game design.

Anyway, I'm just saying that that DracAnon is unlikely to change anybody's mind. If you think pointing that out is being unreasonable, then that's on you, I'm afraid.

Otherwise, enjoy putting words in my mouth if'n it makes you feel like the superior person. I have painting decaling to finish tonight; I'm out.

>>51975926
>Periphery should be Hard Mode, but it should not be "Impossible Mode", and right now in the 3025 era, it is.
I think the TC had about the right balance VS the IS in 3025; they were mostly lights and heavies, but with mostly veteran rating
Not as flexible as an IS force, but compensating with better pilots .
I think the other states should be adjusted up to that line, where they have downsides, but also a positive that lets them do well in certain ways despite that

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>>51974737
Here, a fully fluffed-out Fusillade. I have to admit I cribbed the LAC/5 and Precision ammo thing from the Wolf This, because it was a damn good idea, the Fusillade has AES already, and the FWL aren't going to want to spend all that money on SLRMs when they can cheap out and get probably better performance too. I also like the Mine variant; I thought of it as I wrote the fluff up. It might be better as cLRMs though, twin 10s probably. Not sure about that, because I think Clan minelaying ammo is different than IS and they aren't compatible if I recall.

>>51976052
I'll give you a real good one. You're looking at it from some equal BV table pickup play thing when it was never meant to be that way. Battletech has always modeled itself after historical wargames and all the unfairness that comes with the real world.

So loss is not a foregone conclusion, unless you set up the scenario that way. The story of the battle can be set up in any number of a hundred ways to make it interesting.

And I shouldn't even have to tell you this. You already know it.

>>51976091
fucking typos
>Wolves
>3158
I type faster than I process sometimes. Also this bandage on my finger isn't helping.

>>51975957
>Some players prefer flavor and challenge.


Cool. You can play this reasonable MOC force (all 4/5, being generous):

>Marauder 3R
>Shad 2H
>Stinger 3R
>Stinger 3R

>Shad 2H
>Stinger 3R
>Stinger 3R
>Wasp 1A

>Shad 2H
>Pixie 1
>Stinger 3R
>Locust 1V

against this reasonable FedSuns force (1st mech in each lance is 3/4, all others are 4/5):

>Battlemaster 1G
>Warhammer 6D
>Thunderbolt 5S
>Enforcer 4R

>Marauder 3D
>Rifleman 3C
>Thunderbolt 5S
>Enforcer 4R

>Pixie 1
>Centurion 9-A
>Valkyrie QA
>Locust 1M

4 battletech mapsheets, line fight with last man standing: the way the game is normally played. See how much of a chance you have. Remember, it's all about being accurate to the fluff, so BV isn't an issue. Go on, have <fun>.

>>51976161
Why would the MoC of 3025 be fighting the Federated Suns? In all your strawmanning and bullshitting did you stop to think?

How about make a force they're more likely to fight? Marians, pirates, low end mercs, League provincial troops/militia, Capellan periphery garrisons, etc.

I don't know why anyone here ever takes your monotonous rants seriously anymore.

>>51976161

I was all set to shit on you for making some bullshit forces to prove a point, but I'll be damned if those aren't actually pretty accurate forces for the two factions.

>>51976098

OK, >>51976161 has proposed a matchup like what you're talking about. It's a non BV balanced game created a lot like real world historical scenarios.

And like any scenario which pits equal numbers of US SOGCOM types against equal numbers of Berkeley university students in a pitched firefight, one side very clearly doesn't stand a chance barring unrepeatable luck.

But you're OK with playing the Berkeley students, right?

>>51976065
They already do.

MoC has giant wads of infantry.
Outworlds has killer air support.

>>51976247
This. And that Fedsuns force is something you'd see in a planetary invasion. It's not some garrison mooks on Bromhead or Broken Wheel.

>>51976259
The hell is wrong with you?

Reason 9546 I love battletech.

I just shot a helo down with a fucking flamer. It's flying buzzing by me and it gets roasted with a flame thrower.

>>51976259
>created a lot like real world historical scenarios

Yeah, like a company of Davion Heavy Guards would be facing a Canopian Company.

>>51976161
>>51976259
I'm guessing the Australians are awake.

>>51976271
The air support thing is absolutely true, it's just that too few people play with it.
I'd rather make it so that the OA fits *everything* with JJs, or something, so that their 'thing' isn't 100% dependent on optional rules

>>51976161
Is this the complainers mentality that's had niggers bitching about the Clans for the last 25 years?

>ughhh, they're so overpowered, this is totally unfair, why can't every faction be the same?

Actually, let's just give the OA all LAMs all the time
>HAHA, EVEN OUR MECHS ARE SECRETLY MENNONITE TOP GUN

>>51975649

Missed this. I feel like arguing anyway. Thanks tho.


>>51976247

So what you're saying is that Periphery players just shouldn't be allowed to play against the majority of the other factions? That if I played Oberon I couldn't play against anybody but pirates and Elsies?

Let me repeat what I told >>51975443. Fuck off.

Also, a double fuck off for thinking I'm NEA. I don't format my posts anything like he does, and it's entirely possible that more than one person disagree with you just like more than one person probably disagrees with us.

>>51976312
>The hell is wrong with you?

I'm right, that's what. That matchup does exactly what >>51976098 is asking for, and its still completely bullshit. It's completely one-sided. Sure, it's correct to the fluff, but it's a completely bullshit scenario, and you clearly know it. The MOC has just as much chance of winning that scenario as the Berkeley hippies have at taking SOGCOM grunts in a firefight. But it's accurate to the fluff, so it must be perfectly fine.


>>51976329

Yeah, that's not even close to a company of Heavy Guard and you know it. Or are you going to try and claim that all Suns companies should actually consist of 40% bugs? Which they have never done on the tabletop in the history of ever?

>>51976374
It would be hilarious if the dracs did this for their Stinger LAM's with pilots they recruit from their Amish worlds, since they conquered about half the OA over the years anyway.

>>51976376
>Or are you going to try and claim that all Suns companies should actually consist of 40% bugs? Which they have never done on the tabletop in the history of ever?


I violently disagree with your entire chain of thinking, but I'll be fucked if that is not a decent point.

I still say fuck the periphery. If you choose to play a shit faction, then you deserve to have shit units. But >>51976161's Feddie force is a completely decent force that nobody would be arguing with if it wasn't couched in the rest of this conversation.

I'll even agree and say that no, the MOC force has no chance to win. They shouldn't have any chance to win because again, periphery powers are shit and they should stay shit. Since I have no plans to play periphery, then I'm okay with that. What you and NEA are seeing as a bug is actually a feature. it's like being an FWL fan. You're all just playing NPC factions anyway, so it's your own fault for having shit designs. Play a real faction and you'd get better stuff.

>>51976247
>League

I'm not actually sure a company of 4 Awesomes, 4 Grasshoppers, and 4 Hermes is going to help prove your point that the MOC has a chance, anon.

For that matter, pirates seem to pretty routinely get a lot of assault mechs. Like the Cyclops in the Schreck TRO entry. Or pretty much any time they come up in the novels or fiction. Hell, I remember Avanti's Angels coming across a whole lot of high-end heavies on Astrokazy, which got shot out and salvaged by the Angels.

I'm not sure where the idea that pirates are a bunch of bugs stiffened by one medium and one barely functioning heavy came about, but it's sure not present in the fluff any time after Decision at Thunder Rift. If pirates end up with a backbone of medium mechs (and a couple of their own custom mech factories) and a fair number of heavies and assaults, it seems reasonable to bump up the TC, OA, and MOC to compensate.

>and the Marians I guess. But they're real slavers rather than the MOC-style fake slavers. So fuck the Marians anyway.

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>>51975574
>(Lyrans being a 9, Capellans a 7, Dracs an 8, and Suns being a 14, because of course they are)
>doesn't mention FWL at all

Senpai...

>>51976642
>So fuck the Marians anyway.

Oh hey it's that one fag triggered by the South, Marians, and Trump.

>>51977290
>Trump.

Everyone sane should be triggered by orange Mussolini.

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>>51977309

when you gents design mechs/tanks do you strap on a bit of long range weaponry (think LRM5 on a GHR) or do you commit entirely to the designs main goal?

>>51977432
Depends on the design. Specialists can't usually afford to diversify.

>>51976642
>I'm not sure where the idea that pirates are a bunch of bugs stiffened by one medium and one barely functioning heavy came about
It's like how most merc units fold within a year or so. It's might be the norm, but the fluff doesn't actually focus much on the norm, and pays attention to the notables. And heavier stuff really doesn't suit the quick strike against poorly or undefended targets MO pirates supposedly favor.

Hell, according to FM periphery pirates like ASF more than mechs anyway and looting merchant ships is more their bread and butter than planetary raids, as the latter is more lucrative it's also more risky.

Plus ther;es the issue of how they can even keep all this shit running in times when even lesser states have issues, which then gets into how the fuck they even keep their jumpships going, and it really just gets down to how pirates as they are basically make no sense at all. Which is par the course for BT though.

>>51977500
>how the fuck they even keep their jumpships going

Star's End

>>51977500
Pirates are basically one of or a combination of three things in BT.

Rogue Units
Falseflag Cover
Forces of Lesser Worlds

They're not in the cold on their own most of the time.

>>51976091
Turns out I couldn't test this even if I want to, the mortar ammo fails to load in MM

>>51977693
Oh well, screw me and my ideas then I guess. So sayeth Java script and MegaMek.

>>51976091
>Not sure about that, because I think Clan minelaying ammo is different than IS and they aren't compatible if I recall.
Technically I think all Clan ammo is supposed to be incompatible with IS ammo. It makes sense with LRMs at least.

New thread
>>51977729

>>51977717
Maybe you can get someone with an IRL group to...wait, nobody has an irl BT group.

>>51977757
It's fine, I doubt you were terribly interested in it anyway. Such is life.

>>51977737
I just looked it up and FASCAM is the same as Thunder (not sure why the Clans changed the name) but yeah, I don't think the ammo is interchangeable anyway. If they were looking to reduce dependence on the Protectorate, they'd have to go with an IS launcher. I guess a pair of 5s is also possible; it might actually be better since it nets you a ton and lets you mine two hexes at once. Pretty sure you can secondary target mines anyway; never actually tried it.

>>51977847
I mean, I was interested enough to put it in SSW and then export it to megamek and then try to play with it...