/hhg/ aka Horus Heresy General

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>>51887268
Post this in last thread.

How would one modify a bolt pistol into a needle pistol.

So what's the usual way to crack Leviathan Dreadnoughts? Playing my first 30k game soon with my nascent Mechanicum army and apparently I'm going up against one at 2k. Reductor list, with a couple Fearless Thrall squads, two min Thallax, some Medusas and a plane that can either be a Lightning or a Vulturax for now. Also have a magnetised Knight if any of the variants help. World Eaters, expecting the Leviathan and Angron/Butchers in a Storm Eagle. Doubt the Adsec will help much, but they're cheap and I need scoring.

>>51887314
Shoot it with as many anti vehicles weapons as you can and pray your opponent fails enough invulnerable saves for the Leviathan to bite the dust.

Or if your AdMech charge it with 20 fearless tech thralls and laugh as the leviathan spends eternity punching every single one of them to death.

>>51887304

Get a needle pistol bit and replace the bolter with needle parts.

>>51887402
What models come with a needle pistol.

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>>51887306
Yes, when the current Rhino came out, it became the MkIIc and the old one became MkI. Just like the old Land Raider became the MkI and the current one is the MkIII (probably because in Epic they had that transitional model that looked like the MkII that FW later made into 40k).

Point being that we had this history of MkI, II, III, etc. in Rhinos and Land Raiders, but instead of Deimos being a recreation of MkI and Proteus being a recreation of MkI, they just made them things on their own.

>>51887512
The Cataphractii apothecary. Eversor has a combi-needled/bolt pistol. One of the genestealer cultist models has a needle pistol. I'm sure some DE weapon will fit the bill just fine. Or that Scion medical device with the needle and chainsaw attachment.

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magnus failed us

Some of my Volkites came in today, but I didn't realize they were just the gun. Am I supposed to cut off the bolters off the hands on the plastic HH Marines or am I missing something?

>>51887578
>this day-only exclusive model that's ugly as sin and in cataphractii armour

No, >>51887512 should look towards the likes of the Dark Eldar if he wants a gun that looks perversely "medical".

>>51887662
Wait, what?
None of them on the FW website look like that.

>>51887662
where did you get them?

Because FW changed all their weapon packs to include a hand to hold the gun for compatibility with the plastic kits.
The older version did not include a hand, as that was modelled on the resin model itself.

>>51887667
Hey, anon asked what models come with the needle pistol and I answered. I never said "totes get these models", just that they're the models that have them (for like reference and shit).

>>51887693
Because FW changed all their packs to include hands for compatibility with the plastic kits, the old versions did not have hands, as those were on the resin kits (now also gone to work with the resin weapons).

>>51887662
I think we found the Chink in the Imperial Armour.

>>51887720
Alright then, sorry, I was in the wrong.
I just don't like the interpretation of "needle pistol" the FW fatpocathery took.

Someone should have painted one up to look like Homer Simpson in the episode where he becomes obese and wears a floral Mumu.

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>>51887776
>not putting rollerblades on him

>>51887387
Well, World Eaters army, so their anything can rip through Thralls like nothing, but I'm bringing 40, so that may be an option. I have a Lightning as an option, but I'm not sure that that will do the job. 4 missiles against a 4++ is a tad risky.

>>51887601
To be honest, yes he did.
And then Ahriman reverse-decimated the few survivors that remained with his rubric and called it a day.

Some say it's a Tragedy, I call it "a series of fuck ups"

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Did someone say cataphractii apothecary?

>>51887867
the only difference is wether you care for and feel sorry for the TS or not - I think they got their just servings. how fucking hard is it to just listen to the all mighty "non divine" emperor dude who has had a pretty ok track record - what with almost finishing conquering the galaxy before you were even born and especially when you KNOW he's a better psyker then you. surely it can't come as any surprise or a far fetched idea to maybe listen to him when he tells you "don't fuck around with the warp." ahriman did the best he could in a shitty situation and is also guilty in the eyes of the emperor but at least he isn't "everything wrong" magnus.

>>51888051
Nice work.

did the retards finally realize cuckstodes are gamebreaking?

>>51888289
Which ones?
I thought you were saying they could get 3++ rerolls on entire squads, but if it's just a certain cheesy build of special character, it's just something dickheads will do, not a game-breaker.

>>51888354
>I thought you were saying they could get 3++ rerolls on entire squads
uhh no, nobody said that.

This is bait, but poking you is fun, so I'll do it anyway.

Nope, they didn't all get made into Jump Infantry or cut to points levels where they can feasibly catch anything with numbers, so still only good if your opponent is a retarded Marine player who isn't allowed to move, shoot, charge or deploy anything not a Tactical Squad, or place anything in less than tight coherency exactly on the deployment line. Your HQ didn't get any faster either, and your army aesthetic, concept and execution remains stupid as hell.

Your silly HQ remains not as good as a buffing Archmagos or Scoria for the 315 points, since it does nothing for the army and can be as easily tarpitted as the rest of you golden bananas.

>>51888379
>since it does nothing for the army
>infiltrating the whole army is nothing
stay retarded, kid.

>>51888378
So what's the problem with them?

>>51888421
>whole army can have a 5++ rerollable and infiltrate with a unit of 95 point fags who are better than a 180+ point praetor

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>>51888051
Cataphractii feel no pain train has no brakes

>>51888415
Congratulations, you are now still easily out of charge range and possibly closer to the convenient tarpits or plasma guns. Not always a good idea to lay out your army where it can be easily shot to bits, especially since you're in your 3" coherency to help with blasts. Or I just deploy two units of Thallax and deny you any advantage there at all. You still move 6" + D6 and cannot deepstrike in with those 3 units (about half your army, assuming you picked decent ones.) All the initiative to respond is now mine. I know, I've been there with Domitars before.

>>51888462
you are guaranteed to be getting charged turn 2 with a unit that has ID on 6's, a million attacks, and you think that you can shoot a t5 5++rerollable 30 wound unit to death with plasmaguns...

hilarious.

>>51887601
The number of Primarchs who didn't fail their Legion in some way, is probably a minority of the eighteen total that we know of.

>>51888494
So this is a 10 man unit of Hekwhatever Guard? That's about 700 points, I'll gladly feed that some Thralls, some Thallax or a Tac squad to hold it back for a turn. If you've just infiltrated three of those, that's your entire army with the Tribune and two Militia blobs have tied it up for the entire game with a multicharge. If not, I can easily plasma or Artillery the other two squads and laugh. Or, you take 9 Medusa hits on that big squad and lose a third of the squad, before I tarpit you. What's backing this deathstar up? Not much, I'll bet, since IIRC you have little reserve manipulation and your everything is expensive as fuck. Doesn't matter how may stabs you have when you're way overkilling anything you touch.

>>51888539
Russ kept his boys mostly happy with his performance throughout the Great Crusade and the Horus Heresy.

>>51888560
>Militia blobs have tied it up for the entire game
>implying anybody plays militia
>implying a militia blob can tie up a million high WS s6 attacks for 'the entire game'
>>51888560
>I can easily plasma or Artillery the other two squads and laugh
yeah, youd be laughing when your 10x plasmagun support squad does a whopping 4 wounds a turn in rapid fire range, killing 1 motherfucking guy. wow impressive. great strategy.

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>>51888539
It is not failing if you deliberately want massive casualties.

>>51888560
I'd use my herd of Rhinos to tank-shock them all onto a pile, and then use the vindicators or medusa on them. If they death or glory to try and prevent that - even better !

>halfway done with three word bearers
>can't continue since it's too cold to use sprayprimer
>bottleprimer is dried up

It's becoming harder to have faith, brothers.

>>51888609
Space Marines, today, the Custodes are at our door! We know our duty and we will do it! We fight for our honor, as fluff mavens, as Space Marines, and we fight in the name of balance!

If we get tabled this day, we get tabled in glory. We get tabled fair and square! But we shall not get tabled, no, it is the enemy who will taste death and defeat! As you know, most of our battle-brothers are stationed in dedicated transports, prepared to tank shock!

Our list has been prepared in the event that our enemy should be so gold and so cheesy! We have placed numerous transports, allowing for multiple, simultaneous and devastating tank shocks!

The Codex Cheese-startes names this maneuver "Steel Pit". We will tank-shock the foe, we will overwhelm them, we will leave none alive! Meanwhile, our militia blobs will ensure the full defense of our headquarters.

We are the Space Marines! We are the most balanced factions!"

>>51888603
I don't think I'll ever get over that Dorn doesn't have a canon handlebar mustache. I suppose the Kevin Costner look is okay in its own way, though.

>>51888539
The obligatory follow-up questions: Which Primarch failed his Legion the most? Which Primarch failed his Legion the least?

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Last thread someone mentioned that he has this sheet, would a scan be possible? I really need this one, it's sold out..

>>51888663
I hope FW makes up for lack of facial hair on various primarchs by turning Khan into motherfucking Guan Yu.

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>>51888603
>tfw both legions achieved their goals in the Iron Cage.

>>51888691
Angron for most, Khan for least

>>51888599
I count 5 wounds (4.94) from that, which is two dead Custodes or one dead and one crippled Hek. What is the rest of this army, then? Because you don't have infinite men, and a "million" attacks is 40 on the charge.

Levy blob of 50, so 100 points, can tank statistically attacks 90 from that 1010 pt minimum unit, and as you only have 40 on the charge that's you stuck for two turns, probably losing one guy as well. This is a T2 charge, so now you're out of combat into my shooting and have two turns to make back the other 910 points you invested into that unit, after everything else has moved 12" away, probably. I have two blobs, so I may well be able to do that again.


>implying anybody plays militia

Convenient allied detachment:

Force Commander, Cult Horde, Tainted Flesh (130)

2x50 levies (200)

Total 330
Cue tarpitting.

>>51888609
That works too. I can't do that, but I can use a Macrocarid for a similar result, and that thing just dropped off 12 walking AP2 wounds a turn, which is two or three golden boys dead right there.

>>51888663
>I don't think I'll ever get over that Dorn doesn't have a canon handlebar mustache
Primarchs can probably will full beards into existence. He probably has a bitchin stache one day then smooth as polished marble the next.

FW better give him multiple heads though: a helmet, a clean-shaven, and a mustachio'd one. Though tbf a handlebar mustache ought to be easy to GS.

I would much rather FW give him the option to take better weapons than his stats currently give him, though. The description even says "these are not his most powerful weapons".
Give him a powerfist or something. Bloody Guilliman manages to have a sword as well as a power fist, and a ranged weapon that can actually be fired before an assault on top of that.

>>51888691
Angron or Fulgrim for most, and probably Khan for least.

Really, the Khan and his boys had the craziest luck in the HH.

>>51888059
Emps could have explained the dangers of the warp and psykers a bit better to magnus. The council of nikae was basically mortarion strawman-ing

>“I remember the Death Lord,” said Ahriman, “chastising us and twisting facts to suit his accusations, but after that, nothing.”

And the space wolves bad mouthing psykers while conveniently forgetting about their rune priests. There hasn't been am adequate explanation as to why rune priests are different other than 'lol, Fenris'. I hope there is some fluff in Inferno that explains things a bit.

Magnus was foolish I'll admit that, even as a fan of the thousands sons, but he was never given a good reason to stop. The emperors word on the matter isn't good enough if it isn't backed up. How can you trust a guy who doesn't trust you.

>>51888897
Outwitting Eidolon isn't so much about luck as it's about Eidolon being incapable of challenging his adversaries with intelligent decisions.

>>51888897
Is it really luck if you fold and quit the game?

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>>51888918
>How can you trust a guy who doesn't trust you.

>>51888783
>one dead and one crippled Hek
yeah, 1 dead guy and 1 guy who can still 1v1 your preator.

>What is the rest of this army, then?
3k list
cuckstode king with 3++rerollable and s10, digital lasers. infiltrate, EW.
10x hektari, shields and paragonblades, 2x would have shields and solarite fists. infiltrate
10x hektari, shields and paragonblades, 2x would have shields and solarite fists. infiltrate
2x min squads of sword and board fags with teleport

allied IF
siegebreaker
3x phosphex thudd guns
10x tactical squad
2x medusas

>>51888918
>There hasn't been am adequate explanation as to why rune priests are different other than 'lol, Fenris'.
"Lol, Fenris" is the difference. The Wolves are convinced that Rune Priests channel the primordial powers of Fenris rather than those of the Warp. They are, of course, wrong. I seem to recall Ahriman mind-raping a Rune Priest by forcing him to realize that during the Burning of Prospero.

>>51889013
I think we should just trust people not to waac. Or don't play people who run custodes primary detachments.

>>51889032
What annoys me is that no one else seems to be able to point this out. Yeah I know shitty BL writing but if a bunch of neckbeards on an Armenian genocide survivors forum can work this out then surely others can too.

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>>51888973
He did the same thing with Lorgar:

>Lorgar, my son
>I created you in my own image
>I demand your absolute fealty and proclaim obedience to my will as the supreme good
>I profess to have superior knowledge about all things metaphysical which you must blindly trust me on
>and I demand that you dedicate your life to spreading my Word across the universe, educating all humans that I am the way, the truth, and the life, etc etc
>But don't treat me like a god you idiot! You're useless! Why can't you be a good son like whatsisname, you know, the guy who's always murdering people wantonly and doesn't give a fuck?

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>>51888973
Man it's been awhile since I opened my Wibbles folder.

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>>51889113

>>51889113
To be fair, Primarch Whatshisname did set a splendid example for his brothers to follow.

>>51887601
>dem spider-fingers
>dat cock-gobbler face

Magnus is truly fucked up

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>>51889141

>>51889113
>but I'm going to pretend this is cool for fifty years then blow up one of your biggest accomplishments.
It's like the dad who ignores his sons painting for 18 years then burns all of his pictures when the son wants to study art at university

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>>51889156

>>51889039
>Or don't play people who run custodes primary detachments.
that was my point

>>51889013
I don't have a Praetor, remember? And he sure can't 1v1 my Archmagos with his chainfist. Anyway, not important.

So assuming I've brought that allied detachment and my normal Reductor stuff:

3k Ordo Reductor - AoD FoC.

HQ:

- Magos Reductor with Machinator Array (150)
- Archmagos Archimandrite with Cyber-familliar, Abeyant, Machinator Array, Djinn-Skein and 4 Occularis, Chainfist, Photon Thruster (355) Warlord.

ELITE:

- Techpriest Enginseer Auixilia - 1 extra Enginseer, 4 Servo-arm servitors (105)

TROOPS:

- 3 Thallax, Photon Thruster, Destructor (175)
- 3 Thallax, Photon Thruster, Destructor (175)
- 12 Secutarii Hoplites, Omnispex (164)

FAST ATTACK:

- Arvus Lighter with Twin-Linked Multilaser (90)
- Lightning Fighter with 4 Kraken Missiles, Servitor Control and Auguries (210)
HEAVY SUPPORT:

- Macrocarid Explorator with Explorator Web, Flare, Ceramite, Grav Imploder and sponson Irrads (345)
- 3 Myrmidon Destructors with Graviton Imploders (240)
- Artillery tank squad - 3 Medusae, Siege Plating, Machine Spirit, twin-linked bolter (480)

Allied Detatchment - Miltia and Cults

- Force Commander, Tainted Weapon (55)
- Provenances - Cult Horde and Tainted Flesh (70)

- Levy Squad - 50 Levies, Frags, 2 CCW each. (110)
- Levy Squad - 50 Levies, Frags, 2 CCW each. (110)


TOTAL: 2909 POINTS


Thallax reserve. Archi and Destructors in Macro, Hoplites in Arvus. T1 I try to tarpit, if not I form a line, and shell the fuck out of one of your Hek squads with the Medusae and move the Macro to someplace helpful, possibly drop off the cargo and dump 12 AP2 wounds on your squad if I feel like risking the T6 cargo to S10.

Turn 2, if you go first, the deepstrike guys struggle to find a spot because my deployment zone is filled with levies, or land in the hole your mortars made and can't assault anyway. Then my levies tarpit, my Hoplites or my Lightning (2+ rerollable reseves) fry your Medusas, and the Thallax and the other plane squad land and annoy your mortars.

>>51889155
Wtf, is magnus supposed to look so funked up.

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How much white would be enough on a DG primus medicae? Just the narthecium? One shoulderpad?

>>51889156
I really dislike the entire Laer blade plot line. I dunno, I've gotten the impression that the Fulgrim novel is one of the more well received installments in the HH series, but the demonic MacGuffin sword being so central to the whole story just kinda spoils the whole thing for me.

>>51889155
>>51889201
Anons, what you are witnessing is the warp paint. Magnus is in the process of turning into a blue horror and something is trying to crawl out of his giant distended mouth.

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>>51889174

>>51889222
It's a tough call.

Personally I have an inkling that all-white would be a good move, since the DG base colour is very similar to white and DG players tend to weather heavily, it might not stand out as an apothecary if he wasn't largely white, whereas a different coloured legion would get away with only an arm white. (I think a shoulderpad is too little).

>>51889222
DG don't strike me as being ones to care too much about that stuff. I'd go with the standard scheme with some heraldry and stuff on the shoulder pads. Maybe review book 1 and 2 if there are any DG apothecary schemes.

>>51889193
you mean by turn 2 all of your blobs and medusas are dead through my shooting alone, then whatever is left has to fight 2 units capable of killing any deathstar, which are probably going to still have at least like 7+ men in them since your shooting wont do shit to them because 3" coherency.

>>51888443
A warhammer game eating itself alive with steady power creep? Say it ain't so!

>>51889169
pretty much, notice how the Emp places the most trust in Primarchs whose life without him defined them more than their life on Terra. The Emperor would never love them, he'd comitted such horrific acts to createt hem and placed such a terrible burden on them that he could never love them, but he could respect them. That is why he trusted Horus, Russ and Magnus the most.

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>>51887714
>>51887693

I got them from ebay. Pic related. The price was fairly cheap, so if I can't use them, no big deal.

>>51889201
hes basically supposed to be that retarded traitor gimp from 300

>>51888691
sanguinius failed pretty hard by dying and causing all his legion to go nuts, dooming them to an eternity of shame and sorrow

>>51889331
Yeah, those aren't Forge World. Did you compare them to the official ones before buying or what?

>>51888941
Come on, his performance in Path of Heaven wasn't that terrible.

>>51889331
just cut up bolter hands and stick them together.

also the buffer tube looking flash is hilarious

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>>51888744

This is the best I can do. I hope it helps.

>>51889343
I wouldn't say he did any worse than some of the other guys, like Magnus, Fulgrim, Mortarion, Angron, and so on.

>>51889415
What did Fulgrim even do that's so bad? Most of his boys seem pretty happy with how things turned out.

>>51889343
sanguinius, ferrus and magnus failed the hardest, no doubt.

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>>51889388

And the other I have.

>>51889449
Don't forget Konrad and Lion. I mean, a lot of the Night Lords series is spent on hammering in that Konrad did more or less nothing right.

alphameme was actually a fuck up too, considering he got #dorned.

>>51889351

I did, but I honestly didn't notice the lack of hands.

>>51889374

That's what I was thinking, though I kinda wanted to magnetize. I have more coming from another along with some combi that are the same way, so I guess if they're all like that, magnetizing shouldn't be too bad if I can find some 1/32 or 1mm

>>51889343
>>51889449
I can get Magnus, but Sangy and Ferrus?

The Blood Angels are one of the kelt revered chapters in the Imperium and are honorable to the core, one of the few that actually believe in the good of humanity. Sure, the curse sucks, but desu if they ever figure out how to (like Mephiston) control it, they become effectively super-saiyan all the fucking time, with no chaos diddles to ruin your soul.

As for Ferrus, I don't know if he what happened to him could be called failure; he did what he was supposed to, was killed by pure evil, and in return his Legion threw an autistic hissyfit. However, they're noted in 40k fluff as being one of the most tactical and powerful legions out there, even if it means their humanity is almost fully stripped from them. Which considering both Ferrus and Emp's view on the legions, is probably exactly what they would've wanted.

>>51889599
>kelt

I sure spelled 'most' in a funny way, but my point still stands. Now those other primarchs did a good job of ruining everything.

>mort made everyone into daemonic zombies that literally haven't bathed in ten millennia
>Fulgrim took /d/, /pol/, /hm/, and /LGBT/ and buffed it up until they would call the legionaries depraved perverts
>pert found an eternal curse of bitterness, not too bad but still kinda shitty.
>lemons rooster made sonic fanfic/furry OCs look normal compared to his Mary sue's
>the lion made his entire Legion into gay poets that are always afraid of their secret getting out

I'll take a sad angel or Mr. Roboto over this any day

>>51888897
>Really, the Khan and his boys had the craziest luck in the HH.
We'll see how the other loyalists get back to Terra. It could be equally lucky. Though it's not that much luck to lose 40-50% of your ships and legionnaires through attrition after fighting alone for four years. At least the legions in Imperium Secundus had each other.

>>51889652
>fulgrim
>pol

Nani??

>>51889388

Thank you so much! You don't know how long I was looking for this. Any chance to get the quality a bit up from 72dpi?

>>51889599
>The Blood Angels are honorable to the core
>one of the few that actually believe in the good of humanity.
>blood drinking nutjobs who massacre civilians >no chaos diddles to ruin your soul.
uhhh
>Ferrus
ferrus was a retard whos stupidity led to 3 loyalist legions being totally massacred and his own death

sanguinius was a retard who tried to reason with horus (after horus had already destriyed pretty much everything and was juiced up on chaos), and then got punked by horus so soundly that it turned his whole legion into out of control madmen who massacre civilians, pretty big fuck up.

>Inferno copy arrives on Monday
I'm actually excited.

>>51889125
All he had to do was say something like.

"It's a surprise."

But that may have been too jolly for the bastard.

>>51889437
>Most of his boys seem pretty happy with how things turned out.
That's because he spent the lives of twenty thousand of his guys on killing another thirty thousand of his guys who might have disagreed with the direction he was taking things in. And even then, the fifty thousand guys who were left after Isstvan and who weren't too fucked up in the head to care, eventually got depressed when they realized Fulgrim genuinely did not give a fuck about them. Fulgrim left with two thirds of the Legion to do who-the-fuck-knows-what in who-the-hell-knows-where, leaving Eidolon in charge of commanding the remaining undersupplied, understaffed, demoralized, and largely incompetent third of the Legion, where the ugly fucker soon realized that even Primarchs of other Legions gave more of a shit about the EC than Fulgrim did.

And without touching much on how Fulgrim may have cost the Traitor coalition the entire war by fucking around during the campaign, and then later by pointlessly diverting forces to harass the civilian population of Terra instead of focusing on targets of strategic value, it's a fact that this whole randomness was very unpopular with a significant number of the EC legionnaires who participated in the final siege. Abaddon successfully managed to recruit EC legionnaires into the Black Legion, because they were fed up with not even being given the chance to fight as soldiers. It was all just whimsical murder, no higher cause or lofty goal. The Legion might not even have fallen apart if only Fulgrim had been there to lead it. The EC were dangerously close to dominating the EoT after the war, and with a Primarch at the helm their chances would have been that much greater. But Fulgrim left them, because he didn't give a shit. He failed them as hard as any of his brothers failed their own.

>>51889709

Yes, but you will have to wait a few days.

>>51889777

I love you.

>>51889790

If you're lucky, you'll get far more than just that scan. It all depends on delivery though.

>>51889761
Tl;dr: Fulgrim puts the 'I' in 'team', and the team has to deal with the consequences.

>>51889286
The only thing you have that can hurt my tanks at range are the two Medusas, which are almost guaranteed to instantly die my turn 2. Your shooting is pitiful. 16 Grav shots and two Torrent Fleshbane flamers don't much care about coherency, and will kill two dudes right there. I still have two Thallax squads, the planes you literally cannot hurt and most of my levies left. 24 Small Blasts at S5 hurts, but hitting an average of 3 dudes per blast only kills one blob, assuming I never get a cover save or anything. SO now you have 7 Heks, 6 normal custodes and some tacticals, that's it. The board is big enough for my Thallax and Hoplites to run around scoring and annoying for ever,

>>51888691
Magnus and Guilliman.

>>51889652
>>the lion made his entire Legion into gay poets that are always afraid of their secret getting out
Memes aside what did the lion actually do wrong?

>>51889891
Stop taking the damn bait.
>>51889905
He didn't tell his legion to stop bombarding Caliban while he went to give Luthor a lesson.

>>51889905
Fostered the situation where his soldiers left behind to govern his world and train new recruits turned against him.

>>51889891
>SO now you have 7 Hek
no, id have 14 heks and they charge turn 2

Solar Auxilia are really cool but they are so expensive...

>>51889945
Well, I can make charge moves too, so one unit of 10 Heks I didn't shoot at is now fighting the remaining 75 or 50 Levies for a couple turns, and the other unit is on 4 men. I guess you could maybe kill my 100pt Enginseers, if you want.

>>51889926

Poking the moron is fun, anon. I'll stop now, need sleep anyway.

>>51889940
Luther was fostering jealously for the lion since before the emperor arrived on caliban. The betrayal would have come sooner or later, the Lion put Luther in a position where he could do a bit of damage but to his loyal sons he didn't fail them at all imo. The dark angels were one of the best legions pre-heresy and the lion was the best military commander of the primarchs

>>51890019
>w-well my blobs that died to phosphex can charge
nice 'argument'
>m-moron
coming from the retard who thinks a handful of grav shots will do anything to hektari, thats priceless.

>>51890025
>sending the guy jealous of you and the officers who embarrassed you home in disgrace to look after your base and train your new men
>reinforce them with marines you don't like because of where they came from and because they were around before you were in charge
>stop talking to them for decades apart from emails asking for more men, faster
>when civil war breaks out don't check in with them at all
>act surprised when they stopped giving a fuck about your authority and made their own choices

Sure, the Lion was boss out on Crusade etc etc but he dun goofed with his centre.
Should've listened to the Khan.

Am I the only one who wants to put some punks in isocubes with the new Imperial Fist's storm shields?
The cop badge shape and the eagle are screaming "I AM THE LAAAW" to me.

Now do you remember? Who you are? What you were meant to do? I cheated death, thanks to you. And thanks to you I've left my mark. You have too - you've written your own history. You're your own primarch. I'm Roboute Guilliman, and you are too… No… He's the two of us. Together. Where we are today? We built it. This story - this "legend" - it's ours. We can change the galaxy - and with it, the future. I am you, and you are me. Carry that with you, wherever you go. Thank you… my brother. From here on out, you're Roboute Guilliman.

>>51890063
Did the maths on the blobs. 24 S5 small blasts, with no cover and hitting 3 guys per blast (generous) kills exactly 50 Levies, so I have one blob left to incapacitate one of yours. If you want to kill another 8 or 9 with the Medusas, feel free.

12 BS5 PE grav shots and 4 BS4 shots does
((12x35/36^2) + (4×2/3×5/5))x2/3x2/3 = 6.023 wounds, or two dead Custodes. Not factoring in the Archmagos weapons, the Irrad Engines or anything else I have spare.

The Xana Incursion is probably one of my favorite HH scenarios.

>>51890183
why do you think i would infiltrate them in front of 2 blobs? remember, i infiltrate after you set up everything.

id shell the only blob in front of them completely off the table turn 1, then shell the 2nd one off turn 2 which would also be when they charge whatever tanks the medusas didnt explode

>>51890183
This is the exact opposite of not taking the bait.

>>51890150
Paint a Templar/Field Officer army and get those GK termy armpit badges, make your army the LAAAAAAW and go give those traitor pricks a beating that makes 1960's hippies wince

What did the Primarchs do wrong?

>Lion
fucked around when he, perhaps more than any, should've known about daemon problems. Most of the cloak'n'daggervstuff his legion does isn't his fault, but he certainly could/should have stopped it.

>Fulgrim
>>51889866 said it better than anyone else could hope too. Plus he was a little fag

>Pertuarbo
Was autistic and damned his Legion for all eternity because he didn't get to make a little castle.

>Khan
Not too much yet, maybe once we learn more about him we'll see if he's a fuckup. Right now, he just likes to go fast. No harm in that.

>Russ
>"What's that dad? Bring this illustrious army displaying Imperial might and make a point of following your orders TO THE LETTER by bringing Magnus to Terra?"
>"Okay, so I'll go burn Prospero, lose countless lives, and turn your most powerful son and his legion traitor. Just following orders."
Also all the yiff shit, but inferno at least makes them more Vikings pre-heresy

>Dorn
Autism and love of walls cost a lot of lives, but in all honesty it's nothing his soldiers wouldn'tve wanted too. Also how many died because he thought the color to blend in on a battlefield would be yellow?

>Kurze
Justin Trudeau iiinnn sppppaaaccee
>"If you kill me and my legion, we win"
Plus he turned what could be an army of batman into *teleports behind you*-tier shittininess.

>Sanguinus
He wuz a good boy and dindu nuffin, he was out prayin to the emprah that night

>Ferrus
Only mistake in his lifetime was embracing some small part of humanity, which after his death his legion quickly threw out. Was pretty chill though, not one to lose his head ;^)

>>51890251
its not bait you dumbass redditor, discussing tactics isnt 'bait'. this isnt a bookclub for poorly written BL books, its a thread about the fucking game.

>>51890284
>>"What's that dad? Bring this illustrious army displaying Imperial might and make a point of following your orders TO THE LETTER by bringing Magnus to Terra?"
>>"Okay, so I'll go burn Prospero, lose countless lives, and turn your most powerful son and his legion traitor. Just following orders."
This is "Baneblades were a light tank" tier, repeating bullshit a hundred times doesn't make it true.

>>51890284
>Plus he turned what could be an army of batman into *teleports behind you*-tier shittininess
I like the fluff with Terran VIIIth approaching terror in the most efficient way to take an enemy planet with minimal casualties and infrastructure damage, something like batman crossed with Scarecrow with a bit of Dredd mixed in. They're cowards, but they know exactly how to fight a war with minimum effort, and if that takes skinning the pope on live national television then they'll do it.

>It's absolutely critical to the Emperor's plan to save humanity that Magnus sit in the golden throne
>Leman Russ' actions result in Magnus turning to Tzeentch

Even the most well-trained dog can shit in the bed sometimes

>>51890284
cont.

>Angron
that meme all has it perfect, he thought it better to doom all mankind to an eternity of suffering at the hands of merciless gods, but hey at least no unelected ruler. Plus he drove his boys fucking insane

>Guilliman
Did literally nothing wrong, by any metric or measure. definitely will MIGA

>Mortarion
>"Hey guys, were in the heart of enemy turf and have a chance to sacrifice ourselves for a good and merciful ruler."
>"But y'lnow what? Eternity serving as mindless rotmules covered in puss sounds waaaaay more cool. Now come get your daemon-AIDS"

>Magnus
Could have avoided a lot of trouble by either listening to the emperor. Or just gone to terra and avoided the fall, that would've turned the tide of the heresy too. But of course the other guy was a furfag, so "hur dur he did nothing wrong"

>Horus
I mean, do I even need an explanation?

>Lorgar
Same thing, but even more obvious.

>Vulkan
Liiiiiives. And also didn't really do anything wrong, total bro. Should've stayed, though.

>Corax
Cool guy, did nothing wrong. Only flaw is not becoming more batmanish, at risk of nightlords crap.

>Memepharius/Omemegon
Totally fucked everyone over, and sucks.
Totally saved the day, and is cool.

Couldn't Magnus just page Dorn or whoever closest to Terra "Hey bro could you tell Dad that Horus gonna betray him? No I'm being serious please just tell him he will know."

Or at least tell the Angel or Khan. At least those two would have paid some attention being best buddies forever

>>51890397

Angel was fighting daemons and Khan was out in bum-fuck nowhere.

>>51890284
Lion - gave Perturabo Heavy siege equipment for political reasons, banished the only guy who could control his autism, thought fucking about on imperium secundus was an importent thing to do, spent the Heresy collecting technology and screwing with the worst legion instead of hauling arse to Terra - dnw rating 6/10

Fulgrim - got mind raped by a xenos sword, allowed his apothecaries to fuck about with geneseed, thought lucius and eidolon were command material, stropped at Ferrus for saving his life - dnw rating 5/10

Perturabo - the decimation, most logical primarch thought 70% casualties was logical, nuked his home world, willingly turned traitor, couldn't even do that properly as he spread his legion around so much half of them stayed loyal anyway - dnw rating 9/10

Khan - had too much fun killing orks and didn't bother checking in on the imperium requiring omegon to force his hand - dnw rating 1/10

Russ - sperges at an insult and fights the Lion, acts beyond his rank and goes to punish Angron, psychic powers are bad but my Wolf priests are good, didn't bother confirming an order to kill his brother because he didn't like him, took his specialist anti-astartes legion away from Terra for no good reason, got just as planned by the meme legion, challenged Horus "The Horse" Lupercal to a dick measuring contest and lost half his legion as a reault - dnw rating 7/10

Dorn - insults his brothers because he's too retarded to lie, squares up to a split personality psychopath with schizophrenia, threw away a third of his legion in the Retribution fleet, calls Xana a bunch of homos and expects an alliance - dnw rating 4/10

Curze - thinks eating babies and skinning people are effective strategies for a galaxy wide empire, thinks cowardice is an effective strategy for superhuman walking tanks, has visions of the future and does nothing about it, alienates his brothers, nuked his home world for less reason than Perturabo, willingly turned traitor - dnw rating 10/10

>>51890379
Except that isn't true, the chair only needed sitting in because Magnus broke it, which wasn't part of the Emperor's plan no matter how much BL koolaid you drink.

>>51890418

Sanguinius - decided to solo Horus rather than triple teaming him with emps and dorn - dnw rating 2/10

Ferrus - probably could have escaped Istvaan had he not challenged Fulgrim to a dual - dnw rating 2/10

Angron - recognises his shitty situation and forces it on his sons for no reason, willingly turned traitor- dnw rating 6/10

Guilliman - thought imperium secundus was a better idea than going to Terra, squares up against daemon Fulgrim - dnw rating 5/10

Mortarion - generalised all psykers as bad, made a psyker the highest legion rank, thought summoning daemons and biomancy were exactly the same, his speech at the edict, willingly turned traitor, took zero effort to convince him to do so, trusted a guy who walks about with a golden aquila on his armour and a sword named freedom to turn traitor, has second thoughts - dnw rating 9/10

Magnus - thought he was a better psyker than the emperor, made a deal with the devil, several times, couldn't grasp the consequences of kicking down the door to the imperial webway, half arsed the fight at Prospero and nearly destroyed his legion, decided to teleport himself and his legion to the eye of terror rather than literally anywhere else - dnw rating 6/10

>>51890397
He could have used astropaths, but chose not to, that's on him. He done fucked up.
>>51890420
Sticking to only your headcanon makes interacting with you kind of pointless, but keep posting your opinion based on things on the internet you don't like all you like.

>>51890418
>nuked his home world for less reason than Perturabo
If Curze had nuked Nostramo the moment he left (which he must have been pretty tempted by), absolutely everything would have turned out for the better.

>>51890418
>>51890436
Wrote up some stuff on this a while ago mainly as a troll idea. Forgot to complete it after magnus.

100% official Primarch did nothing wrong chart (rating depends on choices rather than final allegiance)

0 - did nothing wrong
10 - did everything wrong

>>51890461
>Sticking to only your headcanon makes interacting with you kind of pointless, but keep posting your opinion based on things on the internet you don't like all you like.
Except it's true, Emps didn't need to sit on the chair 24/7 until Magnus broke it, point out any source that says otherwise.

>>51890418
>allowed his apothecaries to fuck about with geneseed
How was this a bad thing?

>>51890326
It's close enough to the truth: the SW destroyed the TS. A lot of pain would have been avoided if their arrival had been more calm.

Can't blame Russ for Alaxxes, but leaving Terra to try to assassinate Horus and getting most of the legion killed at Yarant was a terrible strategic mistake. (And don't blame BL for that one - getting BTFO at Yarant is in the old fluff and they're just trying to find a way to explain it.) All in all, not a great use of a legion.

>>51890284
The Khan should've taken some time off to speak at the Council of Nikea. He and Sanguinius could've made the Librarian project sound reasonable if they had spoken and not let the Thousand Sons give their, "What could possibly go wrong?" speech.

Interesting that he didn't do anything to raise his legion's profile after the Siege of Terra. Totally could have, given that they were one of the three that were actually there. But I guess he liked it that way.

>>51890436
>trusted a guy who walks about with a golden aquila on his armour and a sword named freedom to turn traitor
damn, morty really is the stupidest primarch

>>51890418
>thought lucius and eidolon were command material
I don't get why they didn't get the boot. They're both laughably bad at their jobs. Lucius at least got some shit done thanks to Slaanesh hax, but I don't think Eidolon ever succeeded in any military endeavor throughout the entire novel series.

>>51890436
>made a psyker the highest legion rank
I don't think you can blame him for getting duped by Typhus.

Freaking Russ got ass-kicked by goddamn Failbadon? Way to go guys, way to go.

And Freaking Russ got depressed after surrounded by AL and locks himself up. Why the fuck the E made this pussy the Executioner again?

>>51890549
Lucius was marked for death, it was Eidolon who let him back in, Fulgrim just kinda went 'huh, okay, idgaf really'.
Eidolon *apparently* succeeded all the way up until the books started, where he became Mr Useless. So bad that Fulgrim killed him then decided to bring him back as a novelty.

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>>51890594
>>51890652

>>51890666
Didn't he got bitchslapped by Tarik for some kind of word misuse?

>>51890666
I find it funny that Fulgrim was really insistent on never letting himself get a look at Eidolon's ugly mug after the latter was remodeled by Fabius. Fulgrim is a guy who thinks literal poop smears are beautiful, but Eidolon's face was just too gross for him to look at.

>>51890527
Raising legion's profiling means he had to help for the reconstruction efforts.

For an educated fellow Khan fucking detested desk jobs.

So how taboo is using Night Lords batwing helms in Heresy settings? They look to be mostly mkIV or mkV, and while being on every soldier might be a bit much, i feel it'd be nice on sergeants and command squaddies. My old CSM are in the fridge to be broken then dipped in simple green, it'd be nice if i could salvage more than the shoulderpads from them

>>51890549
A lot of the competent officers were killed at Isstvan. The rest of them had their keen military minds somewhat eroded by dipping their balls in Slaanesh funk.

But it is noted that the Loyalists who engaged the EC at Isstvan were met by a masterful series of defensive battlements. Trenches, traps, mazes, fortifications, etc. They still had some brains to get shit done with. At least some of them did. Eidolon, maybe not so much.

>Nocturne's Hammer is the oldest surviving Rhino
>it carried Vulkan
>Vulkan can't ride Rhinos
>none of the Primarchs can

Why?

>>51890983
>surviving
primarchs are fat

>>51890549
No real challenges until the Heresy, I guess.

>>51890925
I don't think anyone's been crazy enough to ask. Could they go anywhere else on the models? The NL aren't supposed to have changed much from M31 to M41 so it isn't a fluff issue... they just look silly.

>>51890983
And in old fluff, the Khan rode a Razorback. As a surfboard, I'd like to think.

>>51890925
just use the old models

Finally got my hands on Ixion Hale. Surprisingly, his left hand w/ helmet was separate from his left arm piece, which was also separate from his torso. So now I can freely give him helmeted head and/or shield!

>>51889655
I think it said that by the time they got to Terror the Khan had only 70% of his original forces. But still that's pretty impressive to buy Terra enough time.

>>51890925
Well, they came up with that 'ceremonial helm' thing to try to rationalise it a bit, because there's no getting around that they look silly.
But some guys did wear them in the Heresy. So you could model some dudes with them. Any of your guys you fluff or feel would be into it.

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>>51890396
I play RG and I'll argue that Corax is mostly a victim of his desires to do right by emps and his legion, and lets the goal blind his cautions at least until ravendelve.

after that he's mostly haunted by the things he thought his haste created, and lets that introspection get in the way of his decision making.

Honestly he's quite relateable as a primarch, and one of the more human-ish ones once you get under the brooding exterior.

I'm not sure if it was just Gav writing about things he was passionate about and learning from mistakes made in deliverance lost, but the novellas somewhat made up for the level of 'just as planned' nonsense in the earlier book. It could also have been the steering committee infecting another book with alpha legion cabal bullshit and the novellas are what it might have been live without it overall the novellas/corax compilation are pretty good

>>51890549
I've asked this before, but why do the other Traitors put up with so much shit from the EC? They're fucktards who're almost as hazardous to their allies as they are to any enemy. They barely even function as a cohesive fighting force without Fulgrim there to hold the reins. Sure, during the HH it was important to get them aboard the pain train, but ever since then they've just been one big heap of trouble. They don't seem to bring anything worthwhile to the table except for basic manpower, and that's offset by their sheer retardation and their teamkilling habit.

TL;DR Why the fuck does anyone think it's a good idea to invite the ECs every time there's a get-together?

>>51891154
Nah, i'm using the full metal dudes as most of a terror squad, but the upgrade set ones have chaos stars and screaming face backpacks and such, so i'm gonna base things off a calth set and then mkV it up with upgrade set parts, various fantasy and chaos spiky bits, spare 30k legion bits from my gaming group and gratuitous use of drilled studs including crotch, of course. I've got my 3k mechanicum nearly done, just waiting for arlatax models to replace my two domitar standins, so i feel it's about time for a new project.
>>51891182
Oh, they look silly, but the ceremonial bit gives them a flimsy excuse for existence and the nostalgia of a 14 year old's first serious army makes me want to use them here and there. So they're going on my jetbike command, my sergeants and characters, which should be good for differentiation

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I'm not sure if it's just me, but does anyone else feel like there is gonna be some sort of astartes vs custodes fight, not in the sense of loyalist forces vs traitors, but loyal astartes vs custodes.

I feel like there is going to be the inevitable fight between those loyal to the emperor (custodes) and those loyal to his ideals (astartes)

Not saying one can't be the other, but during the heresy setting at least these seem to be a pretty noticeable stance difference between them

>Custodes represent the emperor himself

>Astartes and probably pretty much all other human factions represent his ideals

Where do your loyalties lie, with the Man or his Ideals?

>>51888918

>The emperors word on the matter isn't good enough if it isn't backed up.

Yes it is. Welcome to the military.

It's a given that the higher up the chain of command they are, the more information they're privvy to when dictating their orders.

When the most powerful psyker in the galaxy, the psyker so strong that could crush you like a bug despite you being the #2 baddest psyker around, tells you to stop. You stop.

>>51891232
Same issue that the legion of doom had with Joker. Nut job in the front is the nutjob in view.

>>51891261
dorn probably gunned down all the cuckstodes that wouldnt bend the knee and took them over, thats why in the war between malcador and dorn, dorn had more cuckstode support while malcador was just scrambling together random knights errant and assassins.

>>51890092
What did the khan say?

>>51891288
Except that wasn't the relationship emperor pursued at all?

>>51891232
While the EC can be bugfuck retarded in some cases, pound for pound they are still very dangerous combatants. Even before the Heresy they had been refining their gene-seed and augmenting their bodies in various ways, giving some of them abnormal reflexes and enhanced musculature, among other things. They carry a lot of unconventional equipment and will sometimes make use of some outside-the-box tactics. They're good at causing disarray on the battlefield.

And most importantly, it's better to have these guys on your side and have some idea of what they're up to, than to have them on some other side and have no idea what shit they might pull. Horus kinda failed at this last part. He put way, way too much trust in Fulgrim.

>>51891210
He was kind of a pussy though honestly.

I mean he pretty much let Horus bully him during the Great Crusade and use his Legion as a meat shield.

Then he gets bullied by Ferrus before Isstavan V. He (and Vulkan too I suppose) knew Ferrus' plan was stupid, but Ferrus just told him to shut up and sit in the corner bird boy.

He gets to fight Lorgar and was wrecking him...but then gets smashed by Cruze.

Everything just went down hill for him after that though.

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>>51891384
True enough I suppose, though in HH3 there is evidence given that part of the problem was the majority-terran command elements in the legion siding with horus when giving him counsel, which can't have helped.

The thing with ferrus was always characterized as ferrus just being too damn angry to be reasoned with, so what are you really going to do, leave him out to dry when he's going in with or without you?

the thing with curze and lorgar I'm still annoyed at. For that encounter definitely #oldfluffwasbetter

>>51891310
Horus kinda fucked up by letting Fulgrim run loose. For a good while, nobody even knew where F-dog was. And he almost killed Perturabo. And he fucked up at Isstvan. Like, three times at once. And there was that whole shit where he let himself get possessed by a daemon. And so on.

And Horus was still somehow deluded enough to think that Fulgrim wouldn't let him down at Terra. He let way too much shit slide and should have kept the leash a hell of a lot shorter.

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Mortarion did NOTHING WRONG

NOTHING

>>51891384
You're right, but I think that's part of his character, like all the primarchs have fuck up and do stupid things, his are kinda related to being human. In these cases, he trusts (or at least tries to relate to) his brothers and goes with them. In some ways it's pussying out, in others it's wanting to co-operate and recognition that his preferred way of doing things isn't the best for some situations. He was found late as well, so he may have had a confidence thing.

I always liked that, when the traitors turn on them at the DZ, and Vulkan gets on the horn and urges everyone to fall back and dig into a defensive point, while Ferrus screams back, fuck no, we chaaarge...Corax is just straight up, no guys, we get to the ships and get outta here, trust me. Totally the right move, and he only doesn't order his men to retreat immediately because he's trying to convince his brothers. Then Vulkan gets nuked, Ferrus loses some weight, and only then does he order the (now too late) withdrawal.

And then he snuck away from his men at night to try and find his brothers' bodies. Corax was an okay guy, on balance. Or he tried to be.

>>51891459
>so what are you really going to do, leave him out to dry when he's going in with or without you?
wouldve actually been the smart move

>>51891486
it would have, but as >>51891482 commented, part of Corax's character for better or worse was trying to help others even if they're making bad decisions, it's not in his nature to leave someone hanging out to dry.

>>51891335

It clearly was since he was the designated WARMASTER before giving the title over to Horus, and clearly thought that simply telling Magnus to stop would have been enough.

People saying aR-ti-FISE-er trigger me so much.

>>51891570
r-tiff-asser

>>51891593
I like you.

>>51891570

aR-ti-Fisher.

So only Corax, Sanguinius and Vulkan are likable guys in reasonable sense?

>>51891232
Nobody likes them. In fact, there's a particularly strong dislike for them. As I remember it, they're the only type of CSM who the Black legion are known to have issued a general shoot-on-sight policy for. But it's reassuring to know that they're running off to fuck things up in the direction of someone who isn't you.

>>51891640
You I love.

>two different youtube channels prounced Omegon, "Omegaron".
Come the fuck on, that's just an inability to read.

>>51891660
the only likable guy is girlyman

>>51891666
>they're the only type of CSM who the Black legion are known to have issued a general shoot-on-sight policy for.
Probably something to do with the EC organising the "let's all kill the Sons of Horus" party.

Never did work out why they got put in charge of that. Covering up their own fuckups at the Siege probably, and everybody else just went with it.

>>51890549
Eidolon once noted that part of the reason he made it so far up in the hierarchy was that he's genuinely one of the best fighters in the Legion. Otherwise he would never have made it as far as he did.

But he still almost got his ass kicked by some random White Scar in Path of Heaven.

>>51891755

That random White Scar was Qin Xa, Master of the keshig and the greatest fighter in the Legion besides the primarch. Xa was on the same level as Sigismund, Azkellion, Sevatar and the like.

>>51891570
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAwYM16BAW0

>>51891755
>But he still almost got his ass kicked by some random White Scar in Path of Heaven
Hardly random; it was Qin Xa, master of the khan's keshig guard. Probably the best fighter in the legion (primarch excepted) against his direct equivalent.

>>51891706
>Never did work out why they got put in charge of that.
They had lots of slaves, everyone else was in terrible shape after actually fighting seriously in the siege, unlike the EC, and the EC were just in a plain advantageous position by the time the Slave Wars came around.

I vaguely recall that Telemachon Lyras made some comment about how the EC had recognized how things would turn out and predicted the Slave Wars, so they were preparing for what would come before anyone had realized. I think he was being facetious, though. It's not unlikely that things simply went to hell and he just tried to embrace the clusterfuck that his Legion had turned into, by convincing himself that there was some clever reasoning that guided the train wreck.

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>>51889032
>>51889110
Missed Wrath of Magnus, huh?

Turns out the Space Wolves were right all along and the spirit of Fenris is an actual thing that powers their magic.

While this opens up some fairly interesting avenues regarding known Fenrisian folklore and universal metaphysics, I also agree that it was a fucking retarded decision.

>>51891833
m8 I know how it's pronounced, it's other people saying it wrong that rusts my armour.

>>51891783
Is he the same guy in that Sig voice drama? Who lose to Sig IIRC

how can you make the hammerfall ROW work?

its just so badly written. its a great concept but the rules are retarded

>>51891932

That was Jubal, the Lord of Summer Lightning. He's not on the same level as Xa.

Is a 10 man auto cannon heavy support squad overkill for a terror assault RoW? I have melta and chainfists podding down T1 as well as teleporting plasma.

What old Earth references could you find in HH books? I think I saw passing mention of Mithras and Elizabeth Bathori or something.

>>51890418
Curze was literally insane. He can't really be blamed desu.

>>51892046
Depending what you would call a reference, there's hundreds.
I like how they keep feeling a need to jam in quotes from the dramaturge Shakspire, nothing like a bit of author insecurity.

>>51891961
>>51891847
Will we get an awesome scene at the Battle of Terra with Sigismund, Qin Xa, and Azkellion wrecking traitors side by side?

Would it be possible that even amongst the Traitor Legions there were few chapters/companies so far away from the mainstream force thus evaded purge at Isstvan / etc?

>>51892221

Xa is dead. Eidolon killed him.

>>51892241
That happened with the Iron Warriors.

>>51892270
embarrassing

>>51892221
Eidolon killed Xa, fair and square.

>>51892336
Eidolon is one of the best duelists in the one Legion most obsessed with dueling. And Xa still had Eidolon sweating bullets throughout a lot of their fight.

>>51892397
>Eidolon
>one of the best anything

>>51892413
He's an idiot savant.

>>51892432
>idiot savant
half right

>>51892413
He can punch on someone real good, but that doesnt mean he's a good commander.

>Emperor's Children are pink because Eidolon, after walking into an ambush on purpose and getting covered in acid that turned his purple armour pink, liked it so much he had vats of the acid taken back to the main EC fleet with him

>>51892440
Has there ever been such a thing as a good EC commander? Saul Tarvitz is the only one I can think of. The rest seem to be basically just a bunch of chucklefucks who Fulgrim thought looked photogenic at some point or other.

>>51887601
That's metal.

>>51892588
Why are space marines in general so adverse to the idea of camouflaged armor?

>>51892606
>not promoting your officers based on A E S T H E T I C S

Who has that pic saying wolves and ravens eat together?

>>51892637
when you are a 2 ton tank-man used for point blank shock assaults camo is a little pointless 2bh

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>>51892665

>>51891570
AR-ti-fiss-er

>>51891570
YARRRRRRR-ti-phiser.

>>51892752
Rong
>>51892776
Me Harti

Had my first game this evening, ended up playing 2 additional times. Ran DA Ironwing. I like the atmosphere a lot better than 40k, might just be the new shop.

Lost my first game to IF, I wasn't expecting a siege dreadnought at 1500 points and he wrecked my two vindicators by turn 3. It then proceed to mop up most of my infantry after that with it's grav flux while in turn making all but one of it's saves.

Only saving grace about the game was when my delegatus and veteran squad unloaded serpentas into a terminator squad killing 2 dudes. The termies tried to assault me next turn byt died to over watch and extra wounds from the volkites.

The next two games I won handily, dakka preds tore shit up, vindicators were killing independent characters easily after they detached. And I made 3 squads break with my box dreads, two ran off board and another rallied only to be torn down by a fury of the legion.

Thanks again for whoever gave me input, I'm looking to expand into 2k point games now that I wet my feet. Contemptors are already ordered.

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>>51888973
>magnus my son
>yuo are primarch now
>will you voluntarily suppress your abilities and protect mankind from the perils of the warp
>or will you become a slave to chaos and devastate the galaxy with powers beyond comprehension
>....

>>51889113

He did the same thing to Konrad

>>51892397
Wait, was this before or after Eidolon was zombified? Because I remember that he had trouble just walking around after Fabius stitched him back together.

>>51891952
>how can you make the hammerfall ROW work?

Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods and whatever else you can in Dreadclaws, everything deep strikes and you get the control of the Drop Pod Assault rule plus survivable shit that withstand and bring the pain.

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EC chat reminded me to do this, to follow from yesterday's DA one.
The EC over-arcing plot is kind of meh, it turns out.

>>51892606
You mean there's more to war than being really, really good looking?

>>51893016
still feels worse than just straight orbital assault though

>>51891952
I've tried to make it work, but it's a bad thing to teleport assault based units and there's little point in bringing in shooty units turn 2+.

Only time it works for me is against ironfire and dropping everything into the IW firebase.

>>51893047
Maybe, its shit but it can work. In the end I do agree that using vanilla RoWs are probably the better option for IF as both our Rites are cumbersome and awful.

>>51893069
honestly RoWs dont even seem to help IF much at all. dorn makes terminators troops and they can DS so thats great, siggy makes templars troops and 2 squads of them would be better tax than tacticals anyway.

IF seem like theyd be better off running onslaught with dorn or just going with castellan or something and maxing out on walls

i see people running PoTL with IF all the time but i dont see the point since you can just take vets as elites anyway and with dorn or siggy you have no troop tax pretty much

What is the worst ROW?

>>51893018
Yeah, it's not one of the better ones. One explanation for that is that Fulgrim was written at the start of the HH series, so it covers way more of the timeline than many of the later installments and crams way too much into one novel. I still don't think I'd like the shit about the Laer blade, even if it had been given more time to develop. And Eidolon and Lucius just aren't very engaging characters.

I dunno, I just get the impression that their whole storyline was hastily put together and got more or less fully covered way too early, meaning any chances for course changes or just brainstorming went out the window almost immediately. It's some poorly conceived stuff that you committed to and then there's not much to be done about it.

>>51893018
>The Soul, Severed
>Eidolon's forces defeat a rival Emperor's Children force and discover a new
path of sensation.
Oh for fuck's sake, can't they keep their shit together for just five minutes and not get bogged down in teamkilling? I thought this shit was supposed to wait until after the heresy.

>>51892606
The EC is pretty much the Dilbert Principle at work.

>>51893107
I've played a few 3,000 plus games when a few locals were running a narrative campaign. You're spot on with your assertion, ended up never using Age of Darkness.

First game I played with Castellan, the 4 loyalist were on the defensive on 2 separate tables.I can tell you how great IF Heavy Support Units are when shit's running at you headlong. After a majority of the traitors long range weaponry was destroyed Dorn and 2+/3+ termies absolutely wrecked. He's cheap for what he does and he's a beast on the charge.

Both games afterwards I used Onslaught.

>>51892805
>>will you voluntarily suppress your abilities and protect mankind from the perils of the warp
>>or will you become a slave to chaos and devastate the galaxy with powers beyond comprehension
I chose third path. Is same as second path, but claims otherwise.

I'm having an argument with a gaming friend about the intercept rule and drop pods. He says if he's able to intercept and destroy a drop pod all the cargo inside is destroyed as well regardless of what's in it.

Do I pick up and cheeto his dudes of this shit?

>>51892606
Reportedly they were very competent before the whole Slaanesh shit started. Tarvitz exemplifies this somewhat. They excelled mostly in combined arms doctrine. There's a bit in one of the FW books where it's said that Guilliman once commended the EC for having executed the Ultramarines' own tactics better than the smurfs themselves.

The whole Chaos thing and Fulgrim's retarded purge really did a number on them. They were one of the legions that were hit the hardest at Isstvan. Like, half their guys were just gone. And the guys they lost weren't necessarily the most disloyal or incompetent ones, either. Fulgrim purged a fuckload of troops just because he found some completely irrelevant shit to nitpick about them. So the people he had left weren't necessarily the most loyal or most competent.

Honestly, their complete fucktardation is pretty much their whole appeal to me. They're just at their best when they give no fucks and make life miserable for each other and everyone else.

>>51893107
>i see people running PoTL with IF all the time but i dont see the point since you can just take vets as elites anyway and with dorn or siggy you have no troop tax pretty much

Because Siggy doesnt do much for your army unless you're running a Templar Bros Wreckin' Crew and Dorn doesnt have a model. PotL is great because BS5 Tac Vets are an awesome troop choice but you are right in that Fists are so vanilla you can run a Castellan force and do great.

>>51891158
I noticed this too! The model is very easy to convert, thankfully.

>>51893279
The cargo is never inside though, the moment drop pods are deployed the cargo is deployed outside of it.

>>51893205
what walls did you take?

im thinking dorn + aetos dios + big Dick eagle fort would be pretty hilarious at 3k

>>51893279
interceptor happens at the END of your movement phase. your troops disembark from the pod during that movement phase, and in the case of the kharybdis or anvillus are simply vehicles like any other, DDPs are just an immobile vehicle.

your friend is full of shit and needs to read the rules properly.

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>>51890418
>didn't bother confirming an order

This is the most retarded argument ever. Horus was the warmaster, read the Emp's quote when he named him warmaster. Also read the Emp's quote when he ruled at Nikea. Also it's war, you don't second guess lawful orders you fucking moron.

>>51893551
magnus deserved worse anyway

How does this Terror Assault look? I have 19pts to spend, and I'm not sure where to put it. The Praetor and Apoth go with the melee vets.

Terror Assault - 1981

Praetor - 165
Paragon Sword, Halo, Lasers

Apothecary - 65
AA, Sword

Veterans x10 - 325
Machine Hunters
Combi-melta x10
Vox
AA, Chain Glaive
Drop Pod

Veterans x8 - 361
Weaponmasters
Power Weapon x8
AA, Glaive
Dreadclaw

Terror Squad x10 - 315
Volkite x10
AA, Glaive
Drop Pod

Terror Squad x10 - 280
Volkite
AA, Glaive

Terror Squad x5 - 165
Bolters x5
AA, Glaive

Heavy Support Squad x10 - 315
Auto cannon x10
Augury Scanner

>>51893763
Barely any anti-armor. Melta bombs are good but with only one thrown per turn you need something more reliable. The Veterans will do well but only in a very limited area.

>>51894030
Needing 3 terror squads will do that, sadly.

Should I drop the power weapons for more combi? I could also drop the bolter squad and split the foot Volkite in half to free up some points for something. Hell, I could even take 3 squads of 5 with Volkite instead. That frees up a pod, too, though only Vets, Tacs, and Terrors can use it of course.

Maybe some teleporting termies with a few CF? I could stick the Praetor there, too and go with a full vet squad.

>>51893556
Lion was always right!

Disregard Librarius, sanction Magnus.

>>51889331
Looks like they are Forgeworld (could still be re-cast obviously), just pre-plastic release versions, which came without the hands.
This does have some benefits, you can glue them to models that aren't holding them because of CC weapons and such, and where needed you can combine them with cut down bolter hands.

>>51893551
Except at the time, it wasn't war. If a General in the U.S. Army commanded a regiment to go invade Britain, right now, someone would be calling to confirm things before he was done giving the order.

>>51891961
Not yet. He's been promoted to Qin Xa's position.
The same goes for Alajos and Corswain. If Corswain's rules are true to the fluff I expect hi to be in 250-300pts range, we may as well be looking at the future legion master in Lion's absence.

>>51894635
As long as his rules aren't too good, since "badass" Corswain got his shit pushed in by Sevatar.

Lion gets wrecked by Cruz and Corswain got demolished by Sevatar...are the Dark Angels good at anything other than being late to Terra?

>>51889331
>>51889351
>>51894502
Those are the pre-calth Chargers, which were designed for the resin PA models.

honestly I wish you could still get them, the new ones are better for magnetizing, but the older set was great for characters and conversions.

>>51894661
You got it wrong, Curze curbstomped Corswain after the latter put his sword in his spine. Sevatar appeared there just to mock him. It's a surprise Corswain hasn't entered Crysos Morturg-mode.

>>51894592
>someone would be calling to confirm things
Wasn't long distance communication really difficult at that time or was that only AFTER Prospero?

>>51894736
The Immaterium was a mess, that started around the Istvan events, so long-range communications were very tricky, sometimes even impossible (such as for the White Scars, which had extra warp interference from that AL installation).

Did Crux Terminates exist during Horus Heresy? Or will some turboautist start a shitstorm someday because I was planning to use plastic assault terminators for that sweet Imperial Fisting TH+SS goodness?

>>51895018
I hope you are french, because a mass of REEEEEEEEE of biblical proportions are inbound

>>51895018
the crux design was simply an elites marker, the actual specific image that we know as the crux terminatus wasn't in wide use, there are varying accounts from different sources about its use prior to HH as a campaign honor.

honestly? it's not really hard to shave off, and you could always get some replacement shoulderpads for IF from FW:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Imperial-Crimson-Fists-Terminator-Shoulder-Pads

>>51895018

The symbol existed, but it wasn't the same thing because the Emperor was still around. Sort of like the aquila and how it was EC and VIPs only.

The crux during the Heresy was simply a cross or skull and cross symbol meant to represent elite units.

>>51895096

Thanks for the link, I was searching for those but couldn't found for some reason.

>>51890272
I am really tempted to do a pre Russ Field Police Wolfington force. Fits that I do have the burning of Prospero. For manly MkIII. Would love to be able to buy some MKII helmety though for them. I like them more.

>>51895271

There would be no Mk III at the time though. Mk III came out after Russ was found. All there was was Mk II.

>>51893122
Headhunter Leviathal.

>Let's make the most overcosted, pointless unit in 30k mandatory troops !
>Lets give it worse benefits than Recon Company on top of that as well
>Add a limitation almost as bad as the one from DA legion rule
>Oh and vehicles ? Fuck those, you only get to play with those if you pass reserve rolls
>Have fun footslogging against quad mortars

>>51891570
Arty fisher.

>>51895276
I know, but they look very similar. After all MkIII is just reinforced MkII, it still has the clunky high tech lorica segmentata look I love. I want my book to arrive allready....cant plan without the rules and even less without all the tasty fluff.

>>51895406

How long until we start receiving the books?

>>51895420
Soon I hope, I want my package.

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Why did Emepror need Magnus to sit on the throne and power Astronomican when all the travelling of mankind would have happened in the webway anyway..?

>>51895478
keeping the webway connection stable required power as well, though nowhere near the same level of effort required after magnus broke it.

>>51895478
> age of retcons
> even if there's massive inconsistencies that will never be addressed

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Is this a good near 1500 point addition to most Legion forces? I'm trying to have something very versatile that works with everyone.

30K:
Questoris Knight

Seneschal: Knight Warden w/ Avenger Gatling, Thunderstrike Gauntlet, Ironstorm Missile Pod, and Meltagun 470pt

Scion Martial: Knight Paladin w/ Rapid Fire Battle Cannon, Reaper Chainsword, Twin Icarus Autocannon, Occular Augmentics, and BioCorrosive Rounds 425pt

Scion Arbalester: Knight Crusader w/ Thermal Cannon, Avenger Gatling, Stormspear Rocketpod, and Meltagun 505pt

Total is 1400.

>>51895541
many lists struggle with multiple knights, so it really is probably overkill unless you live in a fairly disgusting meta.

>>51895769
>>51895541
Not a Knight player myself, but it seems sad to have such a cool army be non playable due to it being tough to deal with. I love dem knights.

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What if lightning claws had two profiles, one for the claws and one for the power fist that houses the claws?

>>51896093
What if you just took a lightning and a power fist.

>>51896093
They'd cost more points, and nobody would take them.

>>51896072
Non-playable?

What?

>>51892336
Xa was pretty good though.

When Khan and Mortarion fought the first time, Mortarion teleports away, and it's Xa that has personally killed 3 of his Deathshroud.

>>51896349
Hope the Khan and Mortarion meet on Terra to finish their rivalry. Especially as Morty will be corrupted by then.
>so brother, how's that rejection of the warp working out for you?

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Waiting on 15 Custodes, 2 Ixion Hales(one for converting!), 1 Caladius Grav Tank, and 2 Contemptor Galatus Dreads.


Not enough gold. Hello backlog.

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>>51892637
Because they're the future version of Knights.

>>51896198
That anon posted a cool knight list and people seem often scared by knights as a Standard army supposedly hasnt got the tools to figjht them.

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>>51892637
Many do use camouflage.

The Badab War FW books feature many camo marines

>>51896420
I just imagine good CC and long range does the trick.

They seem very vulnerable to heavy squads and powerfists

>>51892805
>>will you voluntarily suppress your abilities and protect mankind from the perils of the warp

Dark Angels showed us that supressing psykers won't help against Daemons.

The Emperor was truly the jackass of the jackasses

>>51896420
I think it's more that, unless you list tailor, some proportion of your army will only be good for standing on objectives and rolling saving throws, and that isn't very fun.

>>51896422
Ah yes, the howling griffons, expertly camouflaged for their campaign on the planet Battenburg.

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>>51896442
They actually camouflage up often.

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I want to put purity seals on my Custodes like the old art. Is that weird?

How do you guys equip your vets? all Combi seems too expensive.

>>51895420
Check your tracking, mine says Monday.

>>51896362
They should do, seeing as the Death Guard were told to pull back from the assault on the palace to deal with the Scars when the Scars and terran tanks recaptured the Lion's Gate spaceport from Horus

>>51896398
space marine bikes should have colorful barding to drive the point home more

>>51896478
missile launchers or heavy bolters is how most people do sniper vets. I lean towards missile launchers since they're not much more expensive and add a lot of versatility.

with outflank the main purpose in my army is for sniper vets is to hunt artillery units, so more shots at range is what really helps.

>>51891288
At the lower ranks i agree with you but I imagine four and five star generals would question presidential orders if they didn't even sense.

>>51896478
it seems expensive unit you watch a squad outflank and remove something worth more than it is in a single shooting phase. this becomes especially true as part of the alpha strike in an orbital assault RoW, where oftentimes you can point and delete even high-value squads with rending combi-flamers.

Ok guys, here is what I currently have for my SoH army. I'm aiming for 2000~2500pts. What more should I add on to this?

Maloghurst
5 Justaerins / Terminators
15 x2 Reavers w/ Jumppack / 10 x3 Vets
2 Contemptor Cortus w/ Chainfist and TL Las
Xiphon Interceptor
Knight Paladin/Warden/Crusader

>>51896697
Oh, and 3 Apothecaries too.

>>51892791
Congratulations on the win there. How did the leviathan destroy your vindicators? Drop pod right next to them?

>>51896697
probably one more unit that can score. that's the advice I give to almost everyone; it's really easy in HH to get carried away with the killy toys and forget that you need to have stuff that scores because not everything does.

>>51896467
Depends on where you glue them

>>51896467
Good idea actually. I might give some to my Tribune.

So I bought the Space Wolves Krom mini because I wanna make a Praetor out of him. Is it important to put him on a 32mm base or is it fine that I put him on the 40mm base he comes with?

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>>51896802
>>51896867
Pic related. There are a few.

>>51896467
It's just the tag from the armour polisher he forgot to remove.

>>51895279
Don't play against quad mortar WAACfaggots and fags with everything in a fucking spartan.

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Finished some tactical legionaries.

>>51893122
Fury of the Ancients.

Viewed in the context of the balancing out the existing colour schemes amongst Legions, what are two strong, iconic colour schemes that could be used by the two Lost Legions?

Don't bother tying it in to a supposed background or tactical doctrine for the Legions, just attack the problem at the angle of finding two unique colour schemes that don't look like they were done by Lisa Frank or someone with RG Colour Blindness, and that, if HH were written with 20 Legions instead of 18, you wouldn't bat an eyelash at them.

I'm wracking my brain and I'm getting nothing. I thought of primarily white with black as a secondary but hahaha Luna Wolves.

>>51896980
Green and Orange

>>51896980
With salamanders generally being a drabber green in 30k, there's a gap in bright green.

>>51896980
Orange.
Purple with Red trim.
Turquoise.
Light Green with Yellow.

>>51896980
A muted 'dirty' orange tone with black as a contrast.

A metalled heavy bronze color primary.. Fuckit, basically FW minotaurs.

>>51896940
Brethren of iron 2nd worst generic?

>>51896980
Turquoise and red. Orange and chartreuse.

>>51896980
Steel, shiny and chrome.

>>51897043
Brethern of Iron seems pretty good for me. Why would it be bad?

>>51897043
What's wrong with it?

Anyway, I'd say recon company, or at least recon company if you play it with a lot of recon marines.

>>51893122
Horror Cult

>>51897053
>>51897070
Don't see much of a point to it over just running cybernetica. Missing most of the decent books anyway

>>51897070
Recon Company is legit if you play the right legion. For Ravenguard or Alpha Legion it is amazing. Having to spend 300 points on mandatory recon marines ain't that bad if your entire army has Shrouded for the first game turn.

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At least IFfags know once and for all that storm shields don't go on Tartaros termies

>>51897570
>a while later
>tartaros assault cannons and storm shields
>still can't take them on the suits per rules

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Any news on an Inferno scan?

>>51896916
But those things aren't a real problem bro. Spartans used to be in almost every list 1500 points +, not only the local WE player use them. Mortars are just cheap

>>51897570
They fit on "Terminator" models too anon, does the lack of SS for indomitus been we con't take it on them.
I'm going to continue to politely ask my opponent if I can use Storm Shields on Tartarus and there's nothing you can do about it.

>>51897811
>FW
>making anything for Indomitus

There's these:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-SE/Black-Templars-Terminator-Storm-Shields
And all the regular storm shields.

>>51898143
>>51898163
Seeing if anyone here could help answer

>>51898203
>wait
>FW puts out conversion kit
>buy

>>51897669
I dunno think scanon is still working at it as always.

Hello i would make prospero burn again !

HQ
Legion Preator ; Tartaros armour, Paragon Blade, 2 Cyberwolves, RoW (The Bloodied Claws)
Legion Centurion ;Tartaros armour, Thunder hammer, Siege breaker consul, 1 Phosphex Bomb
Priest of Fenris ; Speaker of the Dead, Aether-rune armour
Priest of Fenris ; Speaker of the Dead, Aether-rune armour
Legion Command Squad, Tartaros Amours, Reaper Autocannon on the Standard Bearer, volkite charger and power fist for the two other.
Troops
Grey Slayer Pack ; five additional Grey Slayer, Additional bolter for 11 Grey Slayer, 3 Combi-plasma, Hurscarl with a pair of ligthing claw an melta bombs
Grey Slayer Pack ; five additional Grey Slayer, Additional bolter for 11 Grey Slayer, 3 Combi-plasma, Hurscarl with a pair of ligthing claw an melta bombs
Elites
Legion Mortis Dreadnought ; two twin-linked autocannon
Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought ; Kheres pattern assault cannon, Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked bolter
Heavy Support
Legion Artillery Tank Squadron ; 2 Legion Medusa with Phosphex Shells, Dozer blades

I'm new in 30k i played Guard in 40k, i make this list to start, make a base for evolve but still played with it, does works ?

>>51898203
not much you can do that'll be cheaper than what >>51898265 suggested. You'll need 5 heavy bolters, probably the ones from the space marine scout kits. I dunno about heads though.

>>51898614
You've got 4 HQs, so someone will have to go. I'd recommend the siege breaker because...

Don't bother with phosphex on medusas, the basic shells are better.

I'm a big fan of grav guns on dreadnought fists. Just always feel the bolter isn't going to achieve much, while that sneaky haywire shot can help out.

Oh, and the command squad probably wants a transport.