/STG/ - Star Trek General

>>51792895
>a second Dominion War

Glass the changelings; quadrant war now!

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>>51793050
Remove Soup!

>>51793050
>Eat Genesis, you piss jelly pudding motherfuckers!

>>51793050
>Jeffrey Coombs as a freshly engineered Weyoun
>the near immediate devastation of Bajor
>A likely Cardassian civil war

This needs to happen immediately

>>51793050
>a second Dominion War

When, how, and what'd make it interesting/different the first other than the shit being used?

>>51793738
Well, the Dominion isn't one to give up, nor is it one to admit defeat. Following the Alpha quadrant surrender, the founders retreated into their secured territory, built new ships and waited for the opportunity to present itself. And when you're a functional immortal shapeshifter, waiting is a fairly easy thing to do. They've spied on the Alpha quadrant races for decades. Gauging when the right moment would come.

Now, finally, the time has come. The Federation is a mighty fortress of technological brilliance and diplomatic compromise. But this seemingly impenetrable fortress is built on pillars of sand. Each and every one of Earth's strategic allies has a deep undercurrent of anti-federation malcontents. Cardassia is on the verge of civil war between the pro federation forces of the Union and the nationalist forces of the True Way. The Klingon Empire was at war with Starfleet not so long ago and their treaty is shaky, at best. The Romulan Republic is a military coup away from returning to the old ways of the Empire.

That isn't even to mention the opportunistic states waiting for the opportunity to regain territory from the Federation. The Breen, the Vaudwaar, the Voth.

What if, one by one, Earth's allies were feebled by internal strife? Starfleet would, of course, come to the rescue, offering Military and Medical aid to "their side". And then, as if by happenstance, a Dominion envoy discovers a "malicious plot" by Starfleet to destabalise it's allies and eventually subsume them within the Federation. Well, that might just burn every bridge and olive branch that Earth has. That might just turn the Mighty, impenetrable federation into a surmountable foe.

What was it Weyoun said? "The Dominion has endured for ten thousand years and will endure long after the Federation has turned to dust." I believe.

>>51793738

This time we take the war to them.

>>51794040
You know what I never got about the Dominion war?

They just decided to have a straight up slugging match with a superior force when the 'fleet's strength is it's engineering corps. Why didn't someone look at those mines O'Brien made and then do that with cheap drones?

Just make thousands of them with as little equipment as possible and give them the ability to scavenge their dead for materials to make more.

I mean it was the perfect setup to show that the ideals of the federation, of science and exploration could even stop wars with other nations. But no, we have to have our open warfare.

>>51794481
>But no, we have to have our open warfare.

Because it's a setting where the stories are about people, not Total Annihilation or Supreme Commander.

New Excalibur video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZWLisIwp4Q

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>>51794040
>implying Grand Admiral (you) wouldn't just come to singlehandedly save the day
>again

>The 2800
>Endless parade of Dominion ships comes out of the wormhole
>My ship's been hilariously minmaxed for speedrunning STF's
>Oneshotting every Dominion ship that gets within firing range

>>51795075
Has that ever stopped Cryptic before? The various admiral (you)s of the Federation, empire and Republic could reasonably have taken out the Borg, vaudwaar and iconians.

But for narrative purposes that's not the case.

>>51793738
Rework the Cardassian missions again so that the True Way and New Link are expanded on and bring in the 2800 into their fold via Laas, resulting in a Dominion Civil War.

>>51795403
I'm not asking about STO.

Those hacks and Cryptic couldn't do an interesting second Dominion war even if they literally ripped off every major moment and personality from an actual interesting historical war and simply changed the names.

I'd sooner trust the SFB creator grognards to pull a better story out of their collective backsides.

>>51794683
Star Trek was stories about morality, not about people.

Admittedly that changed with DS9, but that was a divergence from the core theme.

>>51795486
To add to that:
Even if a good story were to somehow make it into STO, it'd still be shit because the gameplay is garbage and you'd need to make it through that to even get through the story.

>>51794894

it's like RPG-X but modern

>>51794481
Building a minefield to surround the wormhole took time. And we're talking about a very small spherical space, perhaps a few kilometres im diameter. Doing that across an interstellar border is a whole different magnitude. Hundreds of lightyears of space. Even with dozens of ships working around the clock that's going to take a very long time.

That doesn't even take into account the political fallout of mining an entire border. Rather than preventing war it may expidite it.

And then there's the issue of space being 3 dimensional. Does your minefield only cross the direct borders of the 2 states. If that's the case then the other side can simply go around. The only other option then is to entirely encapsulate one state or the other in the minefield and that's just ludicrous amounts of time and materials, as well as being essentially a declaration of war.

Minefields work across small, manageable distances. Their practicality pretty much maxes out when you reach the scale of a planetary orbit.

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>>51795986
I said Drones nigga, not mines. Same tech, different application

>>51796008
So, what, a bunch of warp capable, self replicating warheads? Like the Cardassian dreadnought torpedo? I doubt a warp core is anywhere as easy to replicate as an explosive warhead.

>>51796089
No, have a command ship that deploys and controls them.

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>>51796111
I'm confused as to what express benefit these weapons have over regular torpedoes fired from a patrol ship or fighter craft launched from pic related.

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>>51795986
>that one episode where the Klingons mine the entire Bajoran system

>>51796089
Sic drone 0 on an asteroid belt rich in dilithium and wait.

>>51796156
Pic related isn't alpha canon
and fighters have squishy organic components that the federation has a limited amount of as opposed to the vat grown Gem'Hurdurr.

You design a drone that can go quick at sublight and can have a phaser mounted on it it, mass produce the shit out of it along with a ship that can deploy them and you've already won.

>>51796219
Unless your enemy has decent jamming technology.

The only alternative then is to give your drones the ability to self control. Which we've seen has a tendency to go wrong on several occasions.

>>51796163
>the Klingons attempted and failed to mine an entire solar system.

>>51796298
Tight beam data transmission back up, the only way you can jam it is if you get in between the units, and you do have some autonomous functions

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>>51794481
You're acting like the Federation's implicit strategy wasn't "Miranda spam while we throw entire planets worth of resources at Starfleet Engineering to improve our shit" and then recreating the American WWII military industrial complex, IN SPAAAAACE.
>The early battles of the war, save for the Defiant, were mostly ancient phaser-sponge classes that couldn't be upgraded anymore.
>While they were trading territory, ships, and lives for time, Starfleet churned out a bunch of new classes in mass production (Defiant, Akira, Steamrunner, Intrepid, fighters) and massively upgraded the older Excelsior, Ambassador, Galaxy, Nebula, and Danube classes.
>The Dominion's closest equivalent to this process was Zerg rushing with their base units, VERY limited creation and production of the xbox hueg Jem'Hadar battleships, and a whole bunch of autistic screeching/splashing to bring the Breen into the war.
>That says a lot about the Founder mindset - conquest is preferable to R&D spending, and Dominion ship design was just "make it bigger XDDDD" with no regard for qualitative improvements
>Because the Breen had a hax weapon that literally none of the Federation or its allies could counter
>except the Federation came up with a counter in like six months and distributed it to the Klingons (and eventually the Cardassians)

>>51799564
*eventually the Romulans

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>>51795140
fucking kek'd

>>51796545
That severely limits their range. Why not put all that power usage and material usage into building a fuckhueg weapons array?

>>51795507
>stories about morality

It's okay to watch and do nothing as millions die because they don't have as many shiny toys as you have. Technology is the only measure of a civilization that matters.

The attitude that identical twins only count as 3/5 of a real person is a perfectly reasonable belief to hold. It's also perfectly fine to murder them.

A medical treatment that could save the lives of billions and improve the lives of many, many trillions is out of bounds because 200 luddite hippies built a commune.

It's fine to fill a ship full of civilians and children and then send it out into unknown or hostile space and intentionally prod hazardous anomalies with it.

It's also okay to ensure the safety of about a thousand people to the piloting skill of a 12 year old because you feel sorry for accidently killing his dad and want to fuck his mum.

There is no inherently obvious hypocrisy in letting someone train at the academy, attain officer rank and then forcibly strap them down to an operating slab to figure out how they tick because when convenient they no longer count as people.

It's also okay to abduct a mans daughter for science.

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>>51800477
>TFW everyone assumed the Feds were the good guys.
THEY ARE NOT!

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>>51801257
But feds ARE the good guys!

>>51799564
Was the head Starfleet strategist Russian?

>Sacrifice the trash and give up territory until the heavy shit is ready and get allies to come and divert some attention

>>51801421
Well there's a good chance it was Admiral Nichayev, so yeah I guess.

>>51801257
>>51801272
>>51800477
Relative to their neighbours, they're "good guys" but the Federation isn't an inherently good institution. It is an economically beneficial megastate that offers the average layperson comfort, security and decent personal freedoms.

Ultimately, any large bureaucracy will act in alignment with its own interests and towards its own self-preservation. But as a democracy, its self-interests may vary wildly depending on public opinion.

If the average Federation Citizen fears muh 200 year old boogeyman then you best bet that Human augmentation is gonna stay off the menu. And if helping a developing civilisation in the past has seriously bit you in the ass(TNG S4E15, "First Contact") then you're unlikely to agree to do so again, even if it is the morally correct thing to do.

>>51800477
I only recognise about half of these - explain pls?

>>51802208
Pretty much entirely Season 1&2 TNG plots + Insurrection, with some twisting and removal of context to make it look worse.

>>51802208
First is any "interference against a less developed race" episode, in particular Pen Pals and Homeward.

Second is Up The Long Ladder.

Third is Insurrection.

Fourth is TNG in general.

Fifth is Wesley Crusher n general.

Sixth is The Measure Of A Man.

Last is The Offspring.

>>51802466
Huh, I thought second was Tuvix. My bad.

>>51802466
Starfleet really had a hardon for getting a slave race of non-people. First they came for Data, then when they heard Data built a daughter, an Admiral immediately materialized on the bridge with repo orders. Finally they settled for using the old EMH's.

Apparently in a "do what I feel like" economy that pays in "feel good" and "personal growth", getting people to do the shit jobs is really hard.

>>51802795
The Federation's biggest blind spot is that seeking out new life and new civilizations is always a process from without: venturing into unexplored space and seeing what's out there. Any human creation, like Data or the EMHs or those Exocomps, is assumed to merely be a tool instead of sentient life unto itself.

I liked that Q turned that around in All Good Things though.

>>51796545 >>51800442
In addition to a severely limited range, it also might be vulnerable to Very High Frequency transmissions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmWLaFQNwVE

I CAN'T STAND IT I KNOW YOUR PLANNED IT
BUT I'M GONNA SET IT STRAIGHT, THIS WATERGATE
I CAN'T STAND ROCKING WHEN I'M IN HERE
BECAUSE YOUR CRYSTAL BALL AIN'T SO CRYSTAL CLEAR
SO WHILE YOU SIT BACK AND WONDER WHY
I GOT THIS FUCKING THORN IN MY SIDE
OH MY GOD, IT'S A MIRAGE
I'M TELLIN' Y'ALL IT'S A SABOTAGE

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Today i learned that i could transfer lobi crystals are account binded and so i could transfer them from character to character.
My WoK character is yet another step closer to being complete.

>>51803924
>Ambassador in the background
NICE
>that four nacelled monstrosity
Wut

>>51804575
I think its a Hestia-class.

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Advanced_Escort_(T6)

>>51804633
Oh, it's a Prometheus upgrade.

>>51802899
>I liked that Q turned that around in All Good Things though.
>How?
I don't think the humans really learned anything from Q except maybe be slightly less tight asses but I really call that a win.

>>51801469
>>51801421

That or Starfleet made Zapp Brannigan an admiral.

Which seems unlikely as Brannigan has proven himself to be far more competent than most Starfleet admirals.

>>51805250
*but l really wouldn't call it a win.

>>51805250
>How?
When Q basically said that true exploration was improvement of humanity internally rather than simply exploring physical space.

>"That is the exploration that awaits you; not mapping stars and studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence."

>>51803924
Space Suit Dave?

>>51805471
Shouldnt he be innatubes?

>>51805743
He has been to known leave the Kingdom Innatubes. It usually means nothing good.

Something to do with the Godzilla Threshold being crossed.

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>>51805471
>>51805743
GET OUTTA MAH TUBES!

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>>51805771
THE KINGDOM MUST GROW!

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>>51805802
OUR CONQUEST WAS SUCCESSFUL! THE KINGDOM IS NOW AN EMPIRE!

>>51794481
>Just make thousands of them with as little equipment as possible and give them the ability to scavenge their dead for materials to make more.

Do you want Borg? Because this is how you get Borg.

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>>51805848
>Space Suit Dave has moved to ESD for the extra tubes.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPE!

>>51805251
>Which seems unlikely as Brannigan has proven himself to be far more competent than most Starfleet admirals.
It's funny because it's true.

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>>51803910
that was actually a really good movie and this is coming from some one who hated with a violent passion the previous two.

>>51806393
That's because there is only one actual Starfleet admiral left and that is Admiral Janeway. The other """admirals""" are

Founders

Undine/8472

Genetic throwback ridgeless Klingons

Romulans pretending to be Vulcans

Borg with only a few brain implants

And a single Section 31 operative who genuinely rose through the ranks on merit.

The S 31 Operative is the only one that knows about the others. The rest of them all think that they are surrounded by other humans and vulcans and andorians and shit. All the oddities are ignored because nobody wants anybody to have attention drawn. S 31 dude isn't going to do anything about this because, with the exception of Janeway, shit hasn't worked this smoothly and efficiently in 70 years.

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>>51806507
....well I guess it wasn't a J.J. brand production, so I might take your word for it and finally give it a watch sometime.

Into Darkness really chapped my ass though

>>51806999
Yeah, no, Beyond is SOOOO different from, and better than, Into Darkness. It's still not REALLY Trek, but it's actually moving in the right direction.

>>51807517
It felt very much like TOS to me. The good bits of TOS, I mean.

>>51806658
Fucking kek'd, when Janeway is the most legit officer that high up - apart from Fleet Admiral (You) - and things are going fantastically well, there's a problem.

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>>51807640
UFP is basically being used as a tech-farm.

Starfleet engineers are notorious across the galaxy for being equal parts maverick and genius. If it's possible they will build it. If it's impossible it may take them all evening to build it. They can wire anything to anything, even things without wires.

Every other empire in the galaxy wanted a slice of that.

So now they have covertly infiltrated the highest echelons of the government completely sure that they are the only ones to have ever done so in total ignorance that everyone else has done the same and they have never met a real admiral bar Lord Big Dick (You) and Janeway. Neither are representative of typical.

Section 31 dude can only look on the bright side. EVERY major interstellar power has a vested interest in the continued survival of the UFP.

>>51808050
hc that everyone's convinced that Admirals (You) and Janeway are actually the infiltrators

>>51805771
What is that costume please i have to know.

>>51808502
Lockbox Star Trek VI space suit.

>>51808563
..... what lockbox is it from?
and is it resellable?

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>>51807640
>implying Grand Admiral (you) is legit
I don't think ranking up to 5* by virtue of killing the most dudes with your bare hands/laser batleth/scavenged disruptor machine blaster/time-criminal tetryon dildo since Kahless is exactly legit, even by Klingon standards.
>>51808582
It's lobi store I think.

>>51809043
Admiral (you) is pretty much a force of nature. Whoever controls them controls the quadrant.

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>new Trekyards episode
>the costumes don't look like Klingons
>the makeup doesn't look like Klingons
>the ships don't look like Klingon ships
>but they're totally Klingons because one random person on the production team supposedly said they are even though other members of the production team also said they aren't
I had high hopes for these videos after how their one discussing the new ship from the Discovery promo was pretty decent, but I guess I'll just quit while I'm ahead.

>>51802899
You'd think that after 2 or three instances of the same thing happening they'd learn to just program dumber machines. And maybe put a few cpu limits on the holodeck. God knows how many ships have lost crew members to rampant Moriarity/Kublai Khan/ Yandere Bajoran Waifu simulations across the years.

>>51810522
>You'd think that after 2 or three instances of the same thing happening they'd learn to just program dumber machines
Every hack Trek writer wanted their own BUT THE MACHINES ARE ALIVE episode which is why this happened. In universe there's no goddamned reason for it.

>>51810564
Unfortunately that pretty much the case. It worked pretty well for Data. It was more of a show-long arc for the Doctor. But then we had random one-shot holograms, exocomps, weapons guidance systems and a whole fucking starship pull the same shit. That isn't even to mention the sheer number of self-aware AI suicides that Kirk was responsible for.

As an overused plot point it's up there with "Starfleet crew/officer you came to the rescue of is actually evil."

>>51806507

Star Trek 2009 was okay

>>51809870

what do people here think of the podcast running with Hoffman? ENGAGE

>>51811072
No it wasn't.

>>51807517
>>51807567
Just finished watching it.

I can say that it's a hell of a lot easier to stop focusing on inconsistencies and plot holes and just watch the movie when the character interactions are well directed. It gave the cast a bit of time to breathe in between the big dopey action pieces, and character moments are where delicious Star Trek flavor gets harvested.

I just wish they'd stop inventing new ways to butcher crewmembers left and right.

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>>51811072
Get out, tripfag.

>>51811201
>I just wish they'd stop inventing new ways to butcher crewmembers left and right.
Chekov brought it on himself by triggering the Trump Curse.

>>51811094
...Who?

>>51811428

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/engage-official-star-trek/id1121731456?mt=2

Hey guys I signed up to test the star trek adventures alpha. In what order do I read the documents?

>>51808502
[Starfleet Experimental Environmental Suit (c. 2293)]

From lobi store.

>>51808502
>>51814331
It's actually very nice. The best environmental suit (defensively) that I've got, and I've got the Lobi store Dyson Enviro suit. It compares favorably to most rep set armor.

>>51811201
>I just wish they'd stop inventing new ways to butcher crewmembers left and right

TOS and TNG were also pretty guilty of this to be fair.

Stand on explosive rock
Turned into Styrofoam D20
Blood replaced by paint
Blood drunk by vampire cloud
Infected by paracites and have head shot till it explodes despite the fact that Riker and Picard know it's possible to have that shit extracted and survive.
Infected by nanobots and eaten alive from the inside
Merged with the floor
Mutilated by transporter and left to spend last few moments in inhuman agony
Killed by Jack The Ripper

There are probably more especially from VOY, DS9 and ENT. Killing off the lower ranks in stupid/cruel ways and not really giving a shit about it is very much Trek.

>>51815871
In DS9 it was mostly just standard deaths. Killed by terrorists, killed by Cardassians, killed by equipment malfunction. It was easy enough for them to play it off as part of being in a warzone.

In Voyager they tried to make a big deal whenever somebody died but eventually they just shrugged it off. In one episode they straight up never mention the ensign that died. As if they just sort of forgot she was there.

Enterprise was similar to Voyager but, on occasion they had one of the characters actually react to the death of a subordinate. Like Commander Good-Ol-Boy having to write a letter of condolence to the family of one of his engineering team.

>>51816404
>TFW Voyager has a funeral for a guy who's been a mummy for over 200 years they just found.
While they just torpedo all their dead crew members into space to be violated by grave robbers and then get asspained after the fact. When they show up again as remade aliens. God did Voyager did shitty stuff to their crew.

>>51816533
Still not as annoying as what Worf and Bashir did to Worf's brother.

Oh it's totally not suicide. We just erased all your memories, surgically altered you and reset your personality. There is nothing left of the person but it's totally not the same as suicide.

In B5 Earth Alliance actually use exactly that as a form of execution.

>>51816952
Hell even in other trek death of personality is considered one of the most horrific things that can happen to a person.

>>51817671
Yes, but even saying that they did it twice in TOS. One for sick and twisted reasons and one for 'good' reasons but that still doesn't make it right in either case. And a gun to the head might how been more merciful in both cases.

>>51817895
*have

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>>51817895
>Brother Edward: Is there enough forgiveness for what I've done?

I still think B5 did it better.

>>51817983
>>51817671
>>51816952

Yeah yeah we've all seen the sfdebris episode on it and gone over it dozens of times before.

>>51815871

To be fair in the deal with the parasites, they didn't know it was possible to survive having the creatures removed until after they had shot that one guy.

It might also have something to do with how long you've been infected. THey don't cover it in great detail.

>>51792887
Best girl, on attack run.

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>>51815871
>>51818340
And CMDR Remmick had that big one in him i don't think they were pulling that one out of him

>>51817983
>Tuvok: May you find the peace in death that eluted you in life.
Seriously, he was the only base character in the whole show. I'm talking Tuvok here.

>>51795536

>letthebutthurtflowfromwithinyou.jpg

For the rest of us, it's a continuation of the prime universe with actual cast doing voiceovers to lend it some legitimacy. But let's keep dividing the fanbase because you've got pet peeves. It's okay, anon. We understand.

>>51818837
>For the rest of us

I can't help it if you STO-fags have shit taste. But you'll not drag me down with you.

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Time for some temporal peace negotiations.

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>>51820849
NEGOTIATIONS ARE OVER!

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>>51820937
Operator
>But Dave, we cant give you fire support, you are inside a space station
Space suit Dave
>AND I TOLD YOU TO FIRE THE DAMN PHASER AT MY TARGET! NOW FIRE BEFORE I REMOTELY FIRE IT!
Operator
>... You can do that?

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>>51818726
Hey, the Doctor and Seven were breddygud too. Although Tuvok would've comfortably outshone all of them if he didn't have a fucking "NEELIX SAYS LIGHTEN UP" episode every other week

>>51820610
>Shitting on STO
>in not!/stog/
>pic related

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>>51821386
>not shitting on a game in it's general
Where do you think you are?

Also the moment this place actually becomes /stog/ is the point it gets kicked off /tg/. Rightly so.

And the cover of it being /tg/ due to the OP being full of stuff about RPGs is getting pretty thin at this point.

>>51821732
Reminder that Lucsly has a future waifu who wants his D because he has literally saved time itself.

>>51821732
>implying there's anything else Trek to currently talk about, actually /tg/ or otherwise
Call me when Attack Wing gets popular, or when that new Modiphius game actually comes out.

>>51822229
Attack Wing has been popular for ages, it's up there in the top selling games somehow. Just no-one here likes it.
And the new RPG has been coming out for ages with new versions consistently uploaded here. Nobody cares or comments when it happens.

>>51821732

what if you use /sto/ as a vehicle for your custom /tg/?

>>51822308
Doesn't make it any more /tg/ than doing the same in WoW. And WoW is probably better suited to it at that.

>>51822468

it's more about the Star Trek setting, the uniforms and bridges.

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>>51817983
>Is there enough forgiveness for what I've done?
"Bitch please."

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>>51824714
Londo's story was so fucking sad. Like holy fucking shit. All those horrible things and it wasn't even because he was particularly malicious, he was just a bit weak at inconvenient times and blindly loyal to The Great Centauri Republic.

>>51822284
I've played attack wing. It's alright. Unsurprisingly very similar to X-wing and Armada. Though, at least where I am, I haven't really found a decent community for it. My local hobbyshop plays various space dogfighting games on a semi regular basis but, compared to the star wars crowd, games like Attack Wing and BFG often don't get a look in at all.

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>>51826793
My flgs totally dropped it. Of course, I didn't help, since I was only in there inquiring because I wanted that T6 Sovie; I've found that getting into miniature games without an existing group of friends also getting into it is a great way to waste a ton of money.

>>51824827
>republic

>>51826874
The only type of game I've really been able to sit down and play with a total bunch of strangers is the BSG/Paranoia/Secret Hitler style where the less you know about the people around you the tenser it is. I'd love it if there was some sort of similar experience for a trek game, say something like a changeling hunt. That'd be great.

>>51824827

"There comes a time when you look into the mirror, and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. Then you accept it, or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking into mirrors."

It's also that his weakness is very very easy to relate to, and when you see Londo at his best, you realize why he's so depressed over what he is at the start of the series, why he's so nostalgic.

>>51824827
Londo and G'Kar were hands down the best characters in B5.

>>51829418
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD-SJh8szjA

>>51803910
Rewatching that scene reminds me how much better it could have been if instead of a warp 4 ship, it was the NX-03 or something like that.

>>51815871
I suppose it's not so much the manner of death as it is the sense that half the crew seems to be dead within minutes of initial boarding by the swarmers.

The Narada and the VENGEAAAAANCE also knocked the Enterprise on its ass in seconds, which in those cases made it obvious that plot was the only thing keeping them alive as opposed to having an actual fight.

>>51832203
You know, given that the registry was in the 300s and that it was still in use several years after the war, I wonder if they just fucked with the warp scale again so that warp 4 is something like warp 7 in the JJverse. It would at least explain why the fleet only used warp 3 to respond to an emergency call from one of their capitol planets.

why did worf become so badass upon arriving on ds9

i don't remember a single time he jobbed to someone/something unlike in tng where the only time i remember him winning a fight was him avenging his waifu

>>51833279
They but him in charge of a literal warship.

>>51833359
Now now, anon, everyone knows Starfleet doesn't have any warships - it's a """""Tactical Escort"""""

>>51833575
The USS Ben Sisko's Motherfucking Pimp Hand is a warship.

>>51833655
It's not officially a warship. It's actually just a delivery mechanism for the Pimp Hand.

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>>51833575
>>51833655
>>51834043
>The Defiant is a starship of peace

>>51833117
Officially the Franklin is a pre-NX ship that could go up to Warp 4 and was originally designed as a MACO transport vessel, though it received several upgrades over its lifetime. When United Earth joined/founded the Federation, the Franklin's registry number was changed to an NX designation (as were presumably all Andorian, Vulcan, Tellarite, and Alpha Centauran vessels that joined Starfleet). Starfleet then used the NX registry for some time before adopting NCC for whatever reason.

>>51834610
The Defiant has a giant phallus sticking out of its front, which suggests to me that in spite of what you might think based on race (but conversely, lining up perfectly with his personality), Sisko is compensating for something.

>>51835796
On the other hand, it's a Florida-style dangly dick. So maybe the ship is compensating with him?

>>51833279
It's because Picard wasn't there.
>Worf: Sir, I highly recommend raising shields and firing torpedoes.
>Picard: Come now, mister Worf, I'm sure this can be resolved peacefully.
[20 minutes of failed translations and fighting off boarding parties later]
>Picard: Mister Worf, fire torpedoes.
>Worf: [angry targ noises internally] Aye, sir. Firing torpedoes.
versus
>Worf: Sir, Jem'Hadar ship approaching.
>Sisko: Blow it out of the sky.
[kaboom]

>>51836326
Plus the Jem Hadar fulfil his honour boner.

>>51835796
>giant phallus

That's a nub m8

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>this guy was Mr. Krabs's voice actor

>>51839931

And Sergeant Zim in Starship Troopers; and Sherrif Corbin on Sleepy Hollow before that show went of the rails harder than an Amtrak train.

>>51836326
It's funny because it's 100% accurate

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>>51840488
Lex Luthor in Justice Leauge
The "Blacksmith" in the Daredevil Show, Albert Marconi in John Dies at the End. Guy 's been everywhere.

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>>51821009
>Space Suit Dave with a time machine

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>>51834610
I really wish there were more of these.

>>51839931
Ah yes, Space Lacrosse man.

Something I wish to ask. Who was worst captain, and why?

>>51843951
I'm going to go with Janeway. Both her and Archer were bad for different reasons depending on the situation, but in Archer's case it was both intentional and understandable since he was literally doing what no other human had done before and fucking up from time to time was understandable and part of the show. Now, ideally it should've been the same with Janeway: she was in completely unknown territory decades away from Federation space and it should've been understandable if she fucked up and/or had to make tough decisions in order to get her crew home. But Voyager typically portrayed Janeway as being Always Right no matter what she did.

>>51843951
Main character: Janeway. Stranded her ship across the galaxy because she forgot you can put a fucking timer (with a ton of redundancies if you really want) on a bomb.

Not-main-character: One of those asshole captains who lost their ship over poking shit they shouldn't have that an Enterprise later had to go fix.

>>51843951
Captain Keogh. Dude took a Galaxy class ship into another quadrant, into a certain combat situation against a completely unknown enemy with only a trio of runabouts as support.


But really, it'd be Janeway. Her choices consistently piled hardship upon her crew, while she sway radically between warlord and "peaceful scientist".

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>>51844126
>Captain Keogh
What a dick.

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Yfw Janeway wasn't even the best Starfleet captain in the Delta Quadrant.

Say what you will about Captain Ransom, but he was willing to do whatever it took to get his people home, even if it meant compromising his oath to Starfleet and probably going to prison, should he make it back.

>>51848869
That makes him a good captain, but a shitty Starfleet captain.

>>51848869
>>51849313
Really, really wish the Equinox had more fleshing out desu - how long they stuck to their principles, who was the first to start abandoning them in favour of getting home faster, what they did to the This Guy who refused.

>>51849313

Does it then follow that a good Starfleet captain is a shitty captain?

>>51849392
A good Starfleet captain is a good captain in peacetime, when combat is limited to single instances and the primary mission is diplomatic or scientific. When you want calmer heads to prevail

In war, or in an instance of isolation, you don't want a Janeway or a Kirk. You want a Ransom or a Sisko, the kind of captain that can betray every ideal they hold dear to protect their crew, their family. The kind of captain that can live with it.

>>51849313
I'll side with the guy that gives a shit about his crew.

>>51850221
False dichotomy. A good Starfleet captain gives a shit about his crew no matter the circumstance. He also, however, keeps in mind that his crew and his ship are not so valuable as to justify screwing over others or violating the principles of the the Federation when there is nothing at stake BUT his crew and his ship.

The Equinox was not carrying some vital information or equipment or whatnot for the Federation that the Federation HAD TO HAVE, unlike what Sisko did with the Romulans. There was no greater cause being served other than themselves. It was nothing more than a single, non-vital ship with a crew of less than 80.

Like I said, I can see how you could make the argument that Ransom was a good captain. But he was a shitty Starfleet officer.

>>51849389
>what they did to the This Guy who refused.

I'm betting they marooned him on some M-class planet, and thought themselves high-minded and noble for having done that rather than spacing the poor soul.

>>51849392
There are plenty of Starfleet captains that are shitty captains. But I'd say the average captain, the ones we don't hear about, is perfectly capable.

So tell me, /stg/ do you prefer the Nova Class or the Rhode Island refit?

>>51852794
Nebula and only Nebula class

>>51852794
I'm partial to anything with a brighter hull, like what the Rhode Island has, but I think I prefer the Nova's lines.

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>>51853249
I don't like how minimised the secondary deflector is on the Rhode Island.

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>>51854238
Well that's not even remotely the image I meant to post.

>>51853187
excellent taste, sir.

i wonder how picard & co fared during the dominion war

>>51856652
Is Nemesis set after Dominion War?

Insurrection I think was set during.

>>51856652
If Insurrection is any indication, they were busy showing the flag and putting out diplomatic brush fires to keep things stable in Federation space. Having the Enterprise blow up in the 351th Battle Of Alpha Whogivesashit Kappa would've been a blow to morale, especially after the Ent-D perished in such an irrelevant way.

In soft-canon, the Ent-E helped subdue a coup among the Gorn, helped liberated Betazed after the Dominion took it, and helped repel the Breen attack on Earth (not without damage to Earth, as seen).

>>51856800
Why give them the next Enterprise? In setting, I mean.

>>51856652
Nemesis is during the war, and Insurrection immediately after. I guess they did OK. At least they got some sweet old people sex.

According to STO, the Enterprise was never seen in DS9 because it was hanging back protecting the home front. In one of the time cop missions, you go to Earth when the Breen do their thing, and the Enterprise is there blowing them up (offscreen, of course).

>>51858217
I think you have that backward, Insurrection was DS9 S7 and Nemesis was 2378-79 or so.

>>51857981
Picard is arguably the Federation's best diplomat who isn't an official diplomat, and the Enterprise is known as Starfleet's flagship, and by extension that of the Federation. When the Enterprise is around, people take notice. They're still a capable crew, they just got caught with their pants down with the Ent-D.

>>51858217
>In one of the time cop missions, you go to Earth when the Breen do their thing, and the Enterprise is there blowing them up
Which itself is a reference to a novel that had them doing exactly that.

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I wonder what happened to Jellico

>>51858485
He masterminded over 30 Federation victories in the Dominion war, with nothing more than 13 Oberths and a single Miranda.

>>51858485
Well he wasn't in command of the Cairo anymore by the time In The Pale Moonlight rolled around. Considering Starfleet only seems to kick people out of command if they're being promoted or temporarily reassigned, Jellico probably got promoted.

>>51858485
Moved into Fleet Command and was responsible for most of the Federation's victories that weren't Sisko's brain children. In the novels anyway. If we include Destiny his delaying tactics save 60% of the Federation, despite fighting Borg ships that could tank transphasic torpedoes. In either case, he seems to have retired in the early 2380s.

>>51857981
What is the intended primary mission of the Sovereign class? It seems like it's supposed to act as a replacement to the Galaxy class as an exploration ship, but we only ever see her in combat roles.

>>51858485

Repeatedly beaming aboard Cardassian ships during the Dominion War and killing the crew with his bare hands.

>>51859526

It would probably be considered a 'heavy explorer'. That is, it technically has scientific and diplomatic capabilities but it can also blow actual warships out of the water.

It's probably similar to what the Constitution and Excelsior Enterprises were. As the Federation became overconfident they staryed building more luxurious, frilly ships like the Ambassador and the Galaxy but once they started getting their asses handed to them regularly by the likes of the Borg and Dominion they re-evaluated pretty quickly.

>>51859526
Starfleet probably decided against continuing the idea of massive self-sustainable exploration cruisers like the Galaxy-class. The Interpid was explicitly designed as a long-range science vessel but it's smaller, so it's probably designed to zoom out into deep space for a few weeks to survey, then head back home, instead of being designed to operate for years away from home like the Galaxy was (this was Roddenberry's initial idea for TNG, which obviously didn't happen in practice). The Sovereign would therefore not be intended for deep space missions like the Galaxy, and would probably be more designed to patrol known space. Still big enough and well-equipped enough to act independently in most situations, but still intended to make regular trips back home for resupply.

>>51852794
Nova, by a massive fucking way - the snub-nosed secondary deflector is like, 80% of its cuteness.

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>>51858735
>If we include Destiny
>>>>>>>>>>Destiny

>>51860388
I have a boner for watching fleets of hundreds of Alpha Quadrant ships try, and fail, to stem the tide of literally thousands of Cubes and Spheres fuck shit up. The plot may be atrocious, but god damn, do I love seeing Sisko's Pimp Hand Mk II kill 4 Cubes at once.

>>51860432
>The plot may be atrocious

That's saying something. The Destiny timeline makes Cryptic's worldbuilding look like FASA.

>>51859798

The Sov is considered a Heavy / Assault Cruiser. It's a fuckoff-big gunboat designed for system superiority and fleet interdiction. That you can use it for a combat-capable deep space research ship or diplo shuttle is a bonus; the real point was something stripped down from the Galaxy-class "mobile starbase" bloat that could act as a ship of the line to secure the core worlds.

>>51860432
>>51860550
I actually wouldn't have minded it too much, so long as it was just an open(ish)-ended "That's all, folks!" to that particular Trek timeline, maybe with another book or so of the quadrant rebuilding and slowly returning to business as usual. Of course, with a franchise like Trek, there's no possible way that can happen.

>>51821732

ST:O is the only setting development in the Prime universe right now, post-Nemesis, unless you want to go down the novel lines. Like it or not, if we're looking for development in that universe, ST:O is it.

Better make your peace with it, anon.

>>51860801
If something fictional is shit I don't have to acknowledge it or follow it. I didn't give a fuck about the expanded star wars stuff beyond the West End Games RPG, I don't need to pay attention to how GW's Horus Heresy series is shitting on something that should have been left fairly mythical.

ST:O can be dismissed as garbage-tier fanfiction by people who don't understand how to incorporate the setting and it's themes with a videogame. There's literally no need for me to make peace with it at all. Same with the dire novels. You don't see anyone here arguing that we should be paying attention to Shatner's series of terrible novels as a source of canon even though it's Star Trek and carrying on the universe in a direction.

>>51842271
The tube empire shall soon take hold of the entire multiverse!

>>51860801
Until someone comes along and renders it all non-canon with a series set after nemesis

you know what i wanted and was waiting to see in ds9

i was waiting for odo to transform into a puddle of slime and let himself be swallowed and then reform and gib the guy

>>51864538
That doesn't seem particularly Odo. Maybe one of the other Changelings.

>>51861095
>ST:O can be dismissed as garbage-tier fanfiction
>fanfiction

No, it can't. Because it's not fanfiction. It's an officially licensed product endorsed by the holders of the Star Trek IP.

You can call STO a lot of things, but "fanfiction" is not one of them. I mean, unless words have lost all meaning penguin foxtrot madrefucking gibbous brillig Jango Fett.

>>51864398
Even then, that will only ever move it into a separate continuity, or render it discontinuity, neither of which will make it fanfiction.

It literally - and I do mean "literally" - is not and cannot ever be fanfiction.

Again, unless all words lose meaning poor theology night torrero bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'

>>51866612
>that klingoni

Ohhhh you sneaky bastard

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Would you like ahow about prewarp Trek?

>>51866801
>MCRN ships are best ships

That would have to take place during World War 3, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, I just don't see how it would fit with the rest of the Star Trek franchise, thematically.

>>51866830
Maybe there can be Vulcan Characters hiding in the shadows. Maybe have a young Zefram Cochrane.

>>51866801
Would I like a show set during the Eugenics Wars, the Interwar period, World War III, or the post-atomic horrors?

No, I would not. It would be bland and tasteless. The most I could go for is an Ocean's 11-style miniseries featuring Zefram Cochrane's attempts to get his hands on enough dilithium to make the Phoenix. But that's it.

>>51866860
>Maybe there can be Vulcan Characters hiding in the shadows

Which is a thing the Vulcans explicitly did not do. The most they did was a few orbital flybys.

>>51866874
Prewarp Humans had space colonies already. They were not stuck on Earth. There were Moon and Mars colonies

>>51866923
They had moon and mars colonies and I think Alpha Centauri was beginning to get set up as well via sleeper ships capable of just-under lightspeed travel.

But even without a "true" cloaking device, it's relatively easy for a starship to hide itself from 20th/21st century detection methods.

>>51866612
>No, it can't

It can and I will continue to do so.

Because it's shit. Shit writing, shit gameplay.

And especially in the context of this being /tg/, to discount it is only sensible for keeping other options open that could easily be far less awful and perhaps even actually fitting to the setting.

>>51866612

You're right that as a licensed work it shouldn't be considered fan fiction, but it's not canon either. Star Trek doesnt work like Star Wars (either before or after Disney and the Legends split) which is why the tv series and movies have one wiki and the licensed works have another. So if/when we get a new post-TNG series it will overwrite STO just like TNG overwrote most of the EU stuff from the 70s and 80s. It won't be a matter of different continuity; the show will be canon and the STO and Destiny timelines won't.

>>51866962
When was that ever established?

>>51869628
>>51866923
Enterprise established that both Utopia Planetia on Mars and New Berlin on Luna were colonized prior to 2069. That's about it though, and Voyager mentioned that Mars as a whole wasn't colonized until 2103. Star Charts says that Luna was first colonized in 2039 but that's soft canon.

>>51869898
Hey, soft conon is better than no canon.

>>51868068
I agree, Memory Beta should be given more credence.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT7K98OXYZc

>Cryptic nerfed tons of stuff in STO
>Made a change so some captain skills now have a minimum timer on them so i cant use a skill more than once per few minutes even after using methods to shorten it to nil
>I can no longer summon an army of redshirts to engage in massive wars with enemies any more

tfw cant anymore play the game like an imperial guard regimental commander.

>>51871235
But on the positive side you can still arm your crew with a variety of swords and laser pistols and then dress them up like pirates (to an extent) and swashbuckle across time and space in a 23c ship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH8lvwXx_Y8

>>51869898

I think the discrepancy in the Mars dates has been explained as 2103 being the date the Martian Colonies were officially declared as a political entity. Humans had at least been to Mars and possibly set up a semi-permanent presence there before than though.

As with all Star Trek worldbuilding this was all just pulled from someone's ass, of course.

>>51872067
There was, at the very least, a manned human base station on Mars as early as 2032, according to Voyager.

>>51867673
Shit writing doesn't mean a thing is fanfiction, and fanfiction doesn't mean it's shit writing.

Star Trek V is shit writing, but it's not fanfiction.

> to discount it is only sensible for keeping other options open that could easily be far less awful and perhaps even actually fitting to the setting.

Sure, you can do that all you like. But you can't call it fanfiction while doing so, because it's not. An IP holder, or someone licensed by the IP holder, literally cannot writing fanfiction about a given IP.

>>51868068
>but it's not canon either

At the moment, Star Trek doesn't have a solid canon timeline. The Star Trek website used to state that only the live-action TV shows and movies are canon, but if you check now you'll see that all references to that have been removed.

Star Trek no longer seems to have a single solid canon timeline and instead operates on the multiverse principle.

Also your premise depends on the idea that a new post-TNG series will ignore STO. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that it won't, however, given that STO is reasonably popular and certainly profitable for CBS.

>>51873472
So you're simply bitching over the words used to describe it being garbage.

OK.

It's still garbage and there's no need to give it any attention other than disdain for it's continued existence as garbage. Licence product or not, it's about as canon as those adventure games of the mid-90s. Except at least half of those had the wherewithal to be not-shit and a good continuation of things in their own way, 25th Anniversary and Judgement Rites in particular so would actually be worth considering on merit alone.

>>51861095

I don't think you realize how closely CBS monitors STO

and they've employed a shit load of Trek actors as VO for their actors

for all intents and purposes it's currently the canon for post Nemsis

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>it's another 'Lt. Yar comes back from the dead to teach us an important lesson' episode

>>51874219
Oh no I realise fully. And them having a bunch of the actors as VOs means jack all given many of them are happy to contribute to all sorts of stuff, especially if there's a paycheck involved.

I think it's on the same level as Shatner's star trek fiction, and will happily disregard all it's many disgustingly awful additions without remorse.
I also find it funny that no-one is arguing that it's actually not shit or has any merit to it beyond what basically amounts to having nothing else. Guess what, if you have nothing better, and the thing in question is fictional, you can just ignore it. STO has nothing that makes it worth not ignoring.

>>51799564
>Miranda spam

It's kind of mystifying that they're still using all these 100 year old starship designs by the Dominion War except the "heavy cruiser" Constitution class that Kirk complained was only 20 years old the first time that Starfleet tried to decommission it. Even the Excelsior class, which is relatively young, doesn't make up more of the fleet than the Mirandas, and there's plenty of other old classes.

Now, I get that it was about filmmaking to a budget and models were expensive etc, but it kind of gives the impression that these famed engineers could keep everything except the heaviest ships they had relevant for a full century after their use (and you could also argue, if you were a retard who didn't understand the order they were made in as shows, that the same Starfleet engineers should have been able to keep the NX class and related developments in use, at least as system monitor craft).

>>51794481
At the time it seemed cool but looking back on it now it seems like around season 3 they just lost the plot completely trying to shoehorn the show-saving cool Defiant in as much as possible, and ended up with a lot of stock footage (the mainstay of any Trek show) of battles after first the spoonmen then the raging walnuts proved to be very, very boring antagonists.

>>51794683
Except with DS9 they were usually soft soap with about 5 minutes of srsbsns in any given episode, except for the season openers and finales.

Don't get me wrong, they had some cool moments, but I don't feel like it stands up today. I'm kind of glad it's never getting a remaster.

>>51794040
>What if, one by one, Earth's allies were feebled by internal strife?

If you want Vulcan love slaves just say "vulcan love slaves". We can come to some kind of arrangement.

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>>51875114
>I'm kind of glad it's never getting a remaster.
Damn that's selfish of you.

>>51874916

Anon, you're the only one who seems to believe that, including the IP rights holders. You're going down the path of bitter and out of touch with where the universe already is, and will continue going.

Hey anons, I brought this up previously but didn't see any interest. Star Trek ships for the pen-n-paper B5Wars game, now slightly defunct. Newer than SFB, but still outdated by a few years. Anyone ever given it a go? (Planetside.firenebula.com)

>>51875639
Oh noes I am going to be out of touch with where an incredibly poorly written MMO is taking it's branch of a setting that I find interesting despite some people insisting it's somehow relevant and worth paying attention.

What a calamity. How will I ever cope.

>>51875843

Well alright then. You can piss off whenever we bring up STO being the current state of the Prime universe, and we can all get along just peachy.

>>51875900
> STO being the current state of the Prime universe

I struggle to understand why you'd even do this though.
Is it simply being there enough justification to do so despite not one single defence of it's quality? Because that's all it is. It's there. It's not good, it's not interesting, it's about as related to Star Trek as SFB. A spin-off that went in it's own direction.

>>51874916
>I also find it funny that no-one is arguing that it's actually not shit or has any merit to it beyond what basically amounts to having nothing else.
OK, I will. It's not shit. It's not even bad. It's not particularly good by any means, but it's not bad. Certainly better than the bulk of the novels, in both writing and story (especially the two or three different timelines they've got going); while that's not saying much, it's pretty sad that an MMO of all things beats out official, licensed novels of a mainstream sci-fi universe that are published by a legit publisher, with editors and everything. The only truly bad thing in the STO story is the Temporal Cold War stuff with the Krenim and Sphere Builders, and that's only bad because it was bad when it was on the show.
>it doesn't fit into Trek
Nigga, it's basically DS9, three times over.

>>51873911
>So you're simply bitching over the words used to describe it being garbage.

Words have meaning. Use them correctly, or look like a moron. Your choice.

>It's still garbage

Such a subjective opinion, that.

>>51875114
It was literally because TNG and the TOS movies were filmed concurrently and they were too cheap/lazy to make new models. Look at the utter garbage they churned out for Wolf 359 battle wreckage. Excelsior premiered in STIII, which was three years before Encounter at Farpoint was filmed. They used the Excelsior model and McCoy cameo as a hand off from TOS to the TNG crew, and then that opened the door for Mirandas, Oberths, and various other 23rd century designs (although I really liked the Constellation class).

>>51875900
>>51875843
You two are expressing awfully strong feelings about a topic that doesn't meeit them. Remember to smile! And give each other a little more benefit of the doubt.

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>>51875114
Alright, here's my in-setting thoughts on the matter. (and oh boy do i have a few) The Connie, as Iconic a ship as she was, was a fairly "meh" exploration cruiser. She was originally envisaged as Starfleet's technological leapfrog of the Klingon Empire. The ship that would rival, if not outdo, the D7 and any other ships the klinks deigned to field.

And in that regard, she was great. Whenever the UFP and Klingons bumped uglies during the TOS-era, there was a Connie there to save the day. But the rest of her mission was a disaster. Of the 13 original Connies, the Enterprise was the only one that didn't suffer severe casualties. At least 5 of them were destroyed outright. However Starfleet had already begun the production of more Connies and, not wanting to put them to waste, a radical redesign and refit was started. Hence the Movie-Connie. This ship was an improvement over the original design. She had a better warp assembly and packed even more of a punch, but the underlying issue remained. The Connie just doesn't have the flexibility or endurance to act as a deep space exploration ship.

Indeed it seems the latter half of her service was spent much closer to home in a military patrol and defence capacity, awaiting the increasingly inevitable war against the Klingon empire. In it's place, 2 new design were pushed to the fore.

Firstly, the Miranda. Using much of the same design techniques of the connie, perhaps even using uncompleted connie spaceframes, the Miranda was designed to be a more compact, more versatile ship. In combat she could go toe-to-toe with the connie, but she could alse be easily reassigned to exploration/non-combat roles, thanks to her modular design. The Miranda enjoyed widespread use as the new workhorse of Starfleet. Realistically, 90% of Starfleet's missions could be completed by a Miranda, an Oberth or a combination of the 2. (cont...)

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>>51882215
(...cont) Next we have the Excelsior. Built to travel at transwarp, she had an incredibly powerful warp system and power core. And her weapons and internal structure were unparalleled, owing, once again, to the anticipation of a cataclysmic war with the Klingons. Even with the failure of the Transwarp project she was the clear choice for Starfleet's new flagship. More excelsior spaceframes were commissioned and the Connie was essentially made redundant. The Excelsior could do everything that a Connie could do and then some.

With the Khitomer accords, the Connie was now no longer necessary, Starfleet retired the remaining Constitution fleet and parked them in orbit of a Starfleet scrapyard, just in case they were needed for a rainy day. (as well they would be).

The Excelsior class filled the role of diplomatic/military cruiser while the Miranda became de-facto exploration vessel /multi mission workhorse and the Oberth became a planetary surveyor. And for a long time that didn’t change. The eventual launch of the ambassador class would relegate the Excelsior to combat duty and personal transport for the Admiralty. The Lakota refit probably gave the ship new life, but it’s unlikely that new excelsior class ships were built by that stage, as the Akira pushed her out of a core combat role.

But no ship came along that was the obvious replacement or successor to the Miranda or the Oberth. So Starfleet kept building them. At least not in the same time scale.

It’s clear that some of the pre-galaxy spinoff vessels were intended to act as replacements. The Springfiled class, essentially a totally modular ship, was intended to replace the Miranda, but for whatever reason she was sdeemed inferior and consigned to the scrapyard. Perhaps the freedom-class or challenger class were intended to replace the Oberth, but once again, newer didn’t mean better and the pre-TNG designs were largely discarded. (cont…)

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>>51882233
(…cont) It wasn’t until the 2360’s that replacements were found, perhaps due to the clear inadequacy of the older ships to fight the new borg threat. The Venerable Miranda class finally found itself on the chopping black, as the new Nebula class achieved a more durable, flexible design that was perfect for multi-mission operations. While the Oberth was pushed out in favour of a repurposed gun-ship, the Nova Class. So the pair were gradually recalled for decommissioning or relegation to transport missions.

That is, until 2371, when shit really hit the fan. Starfleet was faced with a foe that could effectively outproduce their own devastating casualties. The Dominion quickly established a massive numerical advantage of Starfleet and her Klingon allies. So Starfleet ramped up ship production and strapped new phaser arrays to any ship with a warp drive. The scrapyards were emptied and older ships manned by skeleton crews became an integral part of Starfleet’s defensive strategy. As the most widely produced ship in Starfleet history, the Miranda was deployed in nearly every battle of the war. Often times torn to shreds by overwhelming firepower, but ultimately giving Starfleet the breathing room they needed to up-gun the entire fleet.

And the constitution class saw limited service as well. It’s entirely possible that the Enterprise A was given a fresh coat of paint, a new name thrown right back into the thick of it. But after the war I’d wager anything built before 2350 found itself headed off to the scrapyard.

So there you go, my headcanon reason for why the Miranda and Excelsior endured and thrived long after the Connie.

>>51882244
Don't forget the Constellation class. For whatever reason it seemed to struggle with the same overwork and underpower issues (per Picard) as the Connie in a patrol ship role, and that bears out with their retirement by the late 2350s in favor of the Ambassador, Excelsior, and Galaxy classes. The Miranda's modular nature and the Excelsior's heritage as an engine prototype testbed necessitated ease of upgrading the major systems on short notice, and I suspect that's the real reason they survived. It's like taking an ATX PC case from the early 90s and stuffing a bleeding edge motherboard in there - only the outside is 100% identical.

My personal post VOY headcanon is that they brought the NCC-2000 herself out of mothballs to act as the first Quantum Slipstream ship in the fleet, fulfilling her original mission, and it worked so well they started another round of upgrades and new production of Excelsior spaceframes.

This may or may not jive with STO as I know nothing of the lore.

>>51883886
STO doesn't attempt to explain why Mirandas (or B'rels, for that matter) are still in use. They're in the game because they're iconic ships that people like, and that's it.

Similarly, despite what STO says, I've always assumed that your character(s) never actually advance beyond the rank of Captain.

>>51883886
The Constellation was, i think, the last of the connie-inspired designs. In my mind, she was orignally commissioned on the tail end of the Miranda success story. They tried something else completely new to see if it would work and ended up with a fairly adequate-ish exploration vessel. I doubt she had an extended production period.

>>51884073
>Similarly, despite what STO says, I've always assumed that your character(s) never actually advance beyond the rank of Captain.

I tend to do this as well. I also assume that the story plays out over 30-40 years, starting in the late 2380s.

>>51884233
Your assumption is wrong, it was established during the delta recruitment event that the story so far takes places between the years 2409 - 2410

Plus the few times you visit past and future in single mission long temporal shenanigans.

>>51884252
I know that's what they say, I just think it's retarded. You leave the academy nd reach captaincy in less than a year? that's some properly silly shit right there.

A ship class is just a blueprint. In Trek, the blueprint matters less than what the ship is made out of. You can still make a ship using the "Miranda" blueprint out of 25th century materials and it'll hold up. What the blueprint will dictate is the ship's capabilities beyond that. So if you make a 25th century Miranda it's still useful in patrol missions where the most it'll run into is some pirates and maybe a BoP or two, and it'll still contribute in fleet engagements, but it won't have bleeding-edge features like Ablative Armor Generators or Multidimensional Wave-Function Analysis Modules.

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>>51884287
You reach ADMIRALTY in less than a year.
That is some turbo retardation Cryptic has going over there.

>>51884287
>>51884330
Not unheard-of in periods of war in real life, and the player goes through like a dozen overlapping wars and other conflicts.

>>51882215
>>51882233
>>51882244

The Constitution/Enterprise class under-performing seems entirely reasonable. It was old tech by the time of TMP, and clearly there was a leap in starship design from the TOS era.
I don't think the Miranda would use incomplete Constitution frames though. Anything of those is likely to have been built to the previous generation's standards. The feds could easily afford to build fresh stuff and not be tied to the older materials on several new ships.

Given the rapid expansion in the fleet size (NX-01 to NX-2000 took something like 140 years, Excelsior to Galaxy NCC-70637 took a mere 50ish, I think the reason for the Miranda's longevity more than anything else is they build quite literally thousands of the damn things. And their variants.

They're the T-72 of starships.

The ships like the Freedom, Nebula, Cheyenne and so on I think were not failures, they just didn't gain traction in the same way as mass-produced Mirandas and variants managed. They'd have been capable, just not a huge leap in anything particularly except probably crew comfort and speeds gradually working their way up. Interim designs that didn't know they were because the Galaxy was supposed to be the pinnacle of that branch of development in the same way as the Constitution was supposed to be.

But then come the late-2360s, There was a clear need to start building thousands of new ships with ALL the upgrades that had been developed piled in. Hence the massive wave of things like Akira, Sabre, Defiant (somewhat of a radical, but once redeveloped to actually work it was the right ship at the right time) and so on. But even with industrial replicators ship-building takes time and even with attrition there's still thousands of Mirandas out there.

>>51884342
A fresh academy graduate becoming an admiral in less than a year?

In some sorta banana republic maybe, in a state where that bloke is the royal heir, probably or even in a country that is about to lose a war and is grasping at every straw around.
But in Federation, where you got loads of other officers all around you. Hell, it would make sense in the post Iconian war scenario where Starfleet, Klingon Defence Force and the Romulan flotilla haveall lostlike third of their combat capabilities, but this happens before that!

>>51884330 >>51884287
Personally I assume that the training mission stuff takes place before 2409, there's an indeterminate time skip that gets you to 2409, and then you start late into your Lt. Commander career and are promoted to Commander some time during the Klingon War missions, then Captain at some point after Drozana or around Nimbus. And there you stay.

In the case of a 23c character, I assume you start at Commander and the end of the training missions actually sees your promotion to Captain when you take over the Pioneer-class vessel you're part of. You get a posthumous promotion to Fleet Captain after the Battle of Caleb IV, though it's less posthumous than anyone in the 23rd Century thought.

Empire and Romulans, meanwhile, I assume the promotions actually happen as quickly as observed (out to Captain/Commander), the former due to the fact that Klingons promote based on battle prowess, and you have no shortage of that; and the latter because the Romulan Republic is forming so quickly that promotion is rapid.

You still stop at Captain (or Commander for Romulans), though, because Admirals don't generally go out on random missions as much as depicted in STO.

Again, I realize that it's just a caveat of the game. It's not Cryptic "fucking up", it's just a way to have cool level up names.

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>>51884487
Less than a year is definitely stretching it, but there are examples from both world wars of people starting as a fresh private or junior officer and hitting the general ranks by the end.

>>51884487
It's actually 18 months, at least if the Delta Recruit stuff they did for the Iconian War is anything to go by.

Man, NX Columbia's Captain is fucking sexy, holy shit.

>>51884821
By the end of a four year war? And where? Could you give me some more info on that.

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>>51885223

>>51885223
What the Hell, I'll also throw you a bone. During the US civil war, there was a Union private, Galusha Pennypacker, who started the war as the private and ended it as brigadier general.

Incidentally, when he recieved his General star, he was only 20, legally (at the time) too young to have voted for (or against) the man who gave it to him, and remains the only person in US history to have that distinction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galusha_Pennypacker

>>51885223
5 years in, he was a Colonel, then he got bumped up to Brigadier so that he could write a report that other generals didn't want to do themselves. That's different than going from an academy graduate on your first mission, to a CO on YOUR FIRST MISSION, to FUCKING FIVE-STAR ADMIRAL, OF WHICH THERE IS ONLY ONE, WHO IS IN COMMAND OF THE ENTIRE STARFLEET, IN LESS THAN TWO YEARS OF TOTAL SERVICE.

>>51885296
Also, Lafayette was younger when he made general, but it wasn't the United States yet at that point, just the Continental Army.

>>51885316
Again, I'm 100% certain that the game merely presumes that you're a Captain, or perhaps a Fleet Captain/Commodore at most. Additional ranks above this are just for the sake of having cool level-up names. This would be supported most prominently by Captain Shon, Captain Koren, and Commander Jarok seeming to be your "counterparts", and all three of whom are at Captain rank (or Commander in Jarok's case, but the Romulan ranking system is different).

The game only sometimes acknowledges your admiralty because players would complain if it didn't. But given that you are consistently receiving orders rather than giving them, in-universe, you're a Captain.

Although most properly in-universe you probably don't actually exist, your various actions instead having been performed by Shon, Koren, or Jarok (kind of like how the StarCraft novels and StarCraft II retconned away the Magistrate, Cerebrate, and Executor from StarCraft I and had their actions instead be carried by by Raynor, Kerrigan, or Artanis)

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>>51885316
Easy solution, I roleplayed as a Captain, until I took control of the RP Fleet I was in, and then started calling myself an Admiral.

>>51885527

If I wanted to use my imagination, I wouldn't be playing a video game.

How would an rpg set entirely in Starfleet academy work? I've found the biggest barrier to getting people into Modiphius or FASA is a lack of enthusiasm and familiarity for the source material. So I want to try and introduce my friend to it from the ground up. Thoughts? Suggestions?

Tutorial = Lieutenant (and equivalent)
Level <20 = Lieutenant Commander
20-39 = Commander
40-59 = Captain
60 = Commodore

Literally the only thing Cryptic needs to do to make STO's rank progression reasonable and it would change nothing except some text and when you get the rank pip cosmetics.

>>51886747
Well, you'll need a decent dramatic hook, so it's probably best to run at least the first years as character generation to nail down what was studied, excelled in, friends made and so on. then get them to somewhere interesting when they're in their final term before assignment, and drag them into something interesting where they're operating independently or at least semi-independently.

Get them somewhere quickly so they have a grip on who their character is and what's expected of them then fuck their shit up as fast and hard as possible. Blow up their training ship/base. Or at least partly blow it up. If it's getting stale at any point whilst they're dealing with whatever you're inflicting on them then something important breaks and hurts people and makes it all worse.

Try to avoid combat though. Especially any combat where phasers might be involved. If someone goes for weapon specialisation, make sure they get to use them as a tool rather than just deny them their use. Same goes for all their skills really. If they're stuck, have a senior officer yell at them to go do something dangerous.

>>51886579
As someone in their 30s, I hope I never get this old.

>>51886927
Except that for game purposes, rank/level is tied into the tier of ship you have access to, so presumably you'd want to try and match the levels up to that. As well, given that you gain access to tiers of ships every 10 levels, generally, you'll want the rank up to happen every 10 levels.

Level 1: Ensign (Tier 1)
Levels 2-9: Lt. Jr. Grade (Tier 1)
Levels 10-19: Lieutenant (Tier 2)
Levels 20-29: Lt. Commander (Tier 3)
Levels 30-39: Commander (Tier 4)
Levels 40-49: Captain (Tier 5)
Levels 50-60: Commodore (Tier 6)

Though personally I'd like it if there was a special rank for reaching Level 60. It's max level, after all.

>>51885316
It's a bit mechanics vs story thing going on. If you're a Fed, the Fleet Admiral Quinn remarks during the Iconian War that the PC is gunning for his job, even if you're mechanically equal to his rank. So story-wise, you're a Captain, though your service history during the Fed-Klingon war gives you a bit of leeway (especially considering how Harry Kim refers to the PC)

>>51887131
Got it, push everything forward by 1 and then have Level 1 be "Cadet" rank.

- Cadet (level 1)
- Ensign (lvl. 2-9)
- Lt. Jr. Grade (lvl. 10-19)
- Lieutenant (lvl. 20-29)
- Lt. Commander (lvl. 30-39)
- Commander (lvl. 40-49)
- Captain (lvl. 50-59)
- Commodore (lvl. 60)

Still leaves you with ensigns commanding starships, but it's a video game. There are breaks from reality. These things happen.

>>51884252
>>51884287
>>51884330
>>51884342
>>51884487

I do have to admit I kinda love the bit of lampshade hanging Cryptic does on that when your Delta Recruit talks to their temporal ops contact guy

>wait, that was me in just a year? But the other me was wearing a admiral's uniform!
>yeah, weird, sounds like you're gona have one hell of year kid

should i post my voyager fanfiction y/n

>>51888645
Of course.

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>>51888645
If it's lewd you need to take it to the erotic literature thread on /d/. That stuff got kicked off of /tg/ some time ago.

It's 4chan, of course I gotta make the assumption that it might well be lewd.

>>51888645
It saddens me these thread don't generate good greentext.

>>51888645
This is /tg/ and I have never heard us turn down a storytiem.

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>>51888645
Only if you greentext it and pretend it was a play session just like 90% of storytiem on /tg/.

>>51889324
it's based on a dream i had and is probably not what you are expecting

>>51888645
Doc/7 or gtfo, all other pairings a shit

>>51889420
Was it about Nelix suffocating on his own vomit after trying to bake a cake without fucking it up?

>>51876042

>not good
>quality

Subjective opinions like that are the reason chunks of the fanbase still tries to pretend Enterprise doesn't exist. It's been introduced by the rights holders, advanced the setting, and is the only thing aside from the novels that is advancing it. It's not a matter of want, it's a matter of it exists and is supported by the powers that be.

That aside, I hate Cryptic for not releasing a T6 Luna class variant. Not a Vesta variant, Luna. :(

>>51884233
>>51884252
>>51884287
>>51884330

in my STO fleet RP canon the CURRENT YEAR is 2121

>>>/d/7273512

actually here it is

tfw to intelligent to properly link between boards

they broke the blinking cursor that appears when you have selected the chat box x.x

>>51818030
Is sfdebris well-regarded and/or popular around here?
>>51875114
>Except with DS9 they were usually soft soap with about 5 minutes of srsbsns in any given episode, except for the season openers and finales.
>Don't get me wrong, they had some cool moments, but I don't feel like it stands up today. I'm kind of glad it's never getting a remaster.
You take that back you dirty whore. I've almost finished watching it for the first time and it is chock-full of amazing character work - even by today's standards.

>>51888738
Remind me, does the Archer have a shuttle lodged in it somewhere? Seems an awful risk to land your whole ship on a potentially unstable and/or black evil tar inhabited world instead of sending an away team.

>>51891786
No, it's too small for that. The crew's the size of an away team though so there's really no point not landing to have the maximum facilities available to deal with shit.

>>51891491
Duet is STILL one of the best acted episodes of TV ever made. It was basically two people in rubber alien makeup arguing for an hour but it was fantastic.

>>51891786
It has a lifeboat, that's it.

So whats the most realistic way to portray Artificial Gravity and Intertial Control while keeping Trek's Tech level?

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Protogen Stealth Ships look like they could fit in Trek despite the huge gap in Tech.

>>51892845
While keeping Trek's tech level? Trek has gravity plating in every deck capable of adjusting gravity on a room-by-room basis (or even smaller) without interfering in each other's gravity manipulation. This doubles as inertial control, as the computer can simply adjust gravity on a reactive basis to adjust for inertia. However, this system is not predictive or proactive, which is why those in the ship still feel an initial jolt as well as turbulence, though the effects of both are lessened.

>>51893033
So Magic then.

>>51893193
Pretty much.

Would love to see a trek that shows inertial dampeners offline durong warp and see everyone turn to red shirts. Or Nav Deflector offline during Warp to see a shio get ripped to shreds

>>51892867
NuTrek as fuck, though they'd work fine as a generic "inscrutable alien of the week" ship in a pinch.

Still, good luck getting those fusion torpedoes and tungsten PDC rounds past a robust navigational deflector.

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>>51893559
>while at warp
The ship isn't going particularly fast relative to the immediate space around it, at warp. That's the whole point of warp - it beats relativity by actually going really slow, but warping the space around it to move great distances in a hurry. And besides, in interstellar space, there won't be a lot that could do a whole lot of damage to a ship with SIF. There's a lot more danger in an inhabited system, especially in orbit around planets that have had spaceflight for centuries (and thus all the assorted space garbage).

>>51893310
Abaddon's Gate in the Expanse series features an alien FTL gate projector with an inertial dampening field that decelerates anything moving beyond a certain relative velocity in its space down to that limit in about half a second, regardless of its initial speed.

The opening chapter has a loving description of the first yahoo that slingshots his way into the Solar side of the FTL gate getting pulped by momentum.

>>51890459
That would be pre-Enterprise. Your STO fleet RP canon is set when humanity's big thing was Warp 3, at best?

>>51892845
Artificial gravity is an old technology in Trek, try and remember. Earth has had access to it since the early 1990s at the latest, most likely the 1980s, even.

(RE: The Botany Bay, explicitly launched in 1996, has artificial gravity - and I doubt the Botany Bay was built in less than 1 year)

(Star Trek's history...isn't ours).

>>51894467

sorry, that was a typo, should have been 2421.

>>51894489
>(Star Trek's history...isn't ours).
Voyager actually lampshaded that by blaming a lot of how we remember the 1990s on 29th century temporal shenanigans.

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>>51892867
You know, this kinda makes me wanna create a table for what sorta starship a tabletop group of captains/redshirts/rogues and vagabonds could meet while trekking across the stars.

Anyone wanna join up in my starship encounter table creation?

>CREATION TABLE FOR NEWLY MET SPECIES SHIP
Roll 1d10
>1, Low tech ship
This ship has been built by a race that hasn't or has just discovered warp technology, the ship has no artificial gravity, is armed with archaic weapons (see lasers, chainguns, mass cannons, missile launchers) and has no shields
>2, Warlike people
This ship is armed to the teeth with devastating energy weapons, mass drivers and warhead weapons (torpedoes and missiles), science capabilities and fabrication capabilities are minimal aboard this vessel
>3 Armored ship
This ship has sacrificed most of its weapons for more defensive capabilities (Shield generators, armor, thicker hull, etc).
>4 Fabrication ship
This ship is a mobile shipyard, producing ships and strike craft, it has resource processing capabilities and is mostly defended by a fleet of varying size (Roll again to see how large defense fleet)
>5 Explorer
This ship is going where none of its kind has gone before, a ship that works just as well as a peaceful envoy as it works as a warship, this ship comes in peace.
>6 Automated ship (Roll again to see what type of automated ship)
This ship has been created by a race of people either long since extinct or it has traveled across the galaxy exploring strange new worlds and sending radio signals to its point of origin. Behavior affected by the type.
>7 Bio ship
A ship that is more of a living organism than a ship. May have gone feral and is now just a interplanetary life form devouring gas and warping around in search of a mate.
>8 Carrier
This ship has relatively little armaments as its vast fleet of small craft work as scouts, interceptors, defenders and attackers.

[Continues on next post...]

>>51895389
Cont.

>9 Police craft
A vessel belonging to a alien race, act careful around them so you wont break any of their laws.
>10 Freighter
A craft carrying cargo of people, gas, ore, valuables , spices or entertainment.

Next post(s) will handle the size of the ship.

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>>51895389
>Vaygr capitals
>Homeworld 2 ships in general
Oh anon gimme those polygons

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>>51895415
NOTE, in case of having rolled shipyard or carrier previously, ignore the smallest ship size and re-roll.
>SHIP SIZE
Roll 1d10
>1-2 Tiny
Size of a standard federation shuttlecraft or runabout, enough space for a handful of crew.
>3-4 Small
Frigate class ship, fast and maneuverable but lacks in defensive capabilities and armaments.
>5-6 Medium
A Cruiser class vessel, mainstay of its respective fleet.
>7-8 Large
A Battleship class vessel, mostly larger than your own vessel, many large weapons, hanger bays or construction bays, in case of an explorer it is relatively similar to Federation galaxy class vessel and has many entertainment and child care and education facilities within (other races can be retarded too).
>9-10 Enormous
This craft is large enough to be a small planetoid, peaceful approach strongly recommended.

Next up fleet doctrines, also per >>51895457
request, i shall be posting more homeworld ships for my posts.

And everyone is free to write up their own ideas up here.

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>>51895501
>FLEET DOCTRINE
In case of meeting an alien fleet (GM decides when his players go against multiple ships) Roll for fleet doctrine.
Roll 1d10
>1 Swarmer tactics
Fleet is mostly built up of carriers and support craft that support hundreds of small craft varying in size between fighters and shuttle craft.
>2 Big ship big gun doctrine
Fleet is comprised of multiple large ships with large weapon emplacements.
>3 Artillery/long range engagement doctrine
This fleet is armed with powerful long range energy weapons which can devastate a ship from light seconds away, all of these ships have also extensive sensor networks, being able to pinpoint their targets. Most of their weapons are also spinal mounted, thus making them rather helpless in melee range battles.
>4 Board and capture
This fleet is mostly comprised of marine frigates and multitudes of small craft which are built to strap onto a ships side and engage in electronics warfare in an attempt to take over ships systems and turn the ship against its masters.
>5 Broadside warfare
This fleet takes its doctrine from its peoples naval warfare, much of the weapons and armor is arranged to the sides of the ships, ships in turn tend to be relatively flat when looked at from front but are tall and wide when looked at from the side, these ships mostly fly in a long line or form a wall before their enemies.
>6 Combined arms
A fleet formed out of both large battleships and carriers, fighters cover the larger ships which in turn engage larger hostile craft.
>7 Defense is the best offense
This fleet is formed of multiple heavily armored vessels, mine layers and craft capable of fabricating and laying down turrets, every spot they decide to defend will be held.

To be continued in following post...

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>>51895592
Cont.

>8 Gunboat groups
Fleet such as this is mainly formed out of multiple smaller craft centered around a single cruiser, these fleets are small, maneuverable and fast, these groups move across the battlefield and system with the aim of attacking poorly defended areas and declaring dominance over lesser fleets.
>9 Wolf pack
Cloaking ships that hunt in groups for vessels and convoys.
>10 Ineffective doctrine
This fleets formation, composition and movements are dictated in an ancient tome of great import to the race.
Innovation and reacting to situation is strictly forbidden and seen as heresy.
Fleet performing according to this doctrine may look fancy from a far and its attacks look also very fancy, but beyond that its usefulness is highly questionable.
Most of this fleets doctrine is either written by highly educated and inexperienced minds at rear line or by religious leaders.

I was running out of ideas with this one, so feel free to offer more ideas for this list.
Next up, some more stuff and then new thread.

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>>51895634
>SHIP/FLEET MISSION
This list is for when you randomly meet a fleet or a lone ship and wish to know of their intentions.
Roll 1d10
>1 Diplomatic envoy
This ship/fleet is on its way to broker peace or negotiate with another race.
>2 Trader
This ship/fleet is out to discover new resources, to seek out new people and civilizations and to boldly sell them things.
>3 Pirate
This ship/fleet is flying under the jolly roger and is intent on looting, burning, ravaging and performing parking violations across the known space.
>4 Patrol
Vessel(s) on a patrol route around the borders of a nation, perimeter of a station or flying by a trade route looking for trouble makers.
>5 Attack force
This ship or fleet is on its way to attack its enemy counterparts and/or attack a enemy colony or space station.
>6 Distress responder
This ship or fleet has heard a distress call and is heading towards it.
>7 Homecoming
This ship/fleet belongs to an alien race which has been moved from its original home world ages ago by either themselves or another alien empire. Their goal now is to return to their home and either repair the damages caused by their ancestors or to conquer their home back from invaders.
>8 Colonization
A colony ship/fleet is heading towards a new home.
>9 Explorer
Another alien race is expanding their reach throughout space.
>10 Extermination force
This ship/fleet is tasked with the most extreme of orders, to exterminate their foe to the last.
This ship/fleet may be employed by either a xenocidal race of people or people fighting against a threat to their very existence.

>>51895763
So tell me guys, what do you think?
Could this table of mine work in a tabletop game or was i just flaunting my idea guy cock around your faces just this whole time?

>>51895772
The only thing I find issue with is that a couple of your mission profiles could conflict with the type of ship you roll.

For instance, would a cargo ship or exploration ship really be on an Extermination mission?

>>51896099
>>51895772
It might be prudent to limit certain ship types to certain missions, tactics and sizes so you don't end up with a shuttle-cargo-hauler trying to swarm you and loot your supplies.

>>51896099
Well, here are couple of scenarios where i could think an extermination mission working with an exploration vessel and a cargo ship.
>Exploration vessel utilizes its scientific instruments to forge a bio-agent which is then released to the general populace of the planet, causing the people to die in the hands of a genetically engineered virus or they could tractor beam a meteor into collision course with the planet or destabilize tachyon field of the planet in order to reverse its technobablium mineral deposits energy fields and cause the planet to plummet into the sun.
>Freighter could just carry within it loads of highly radioactive and carsinogenic gas that it would dump on the planet a'la Malon cleanup service.

>>51896099
>>51896151
But still you guys are probably right and it should be just limited on what sorta ships can do it.

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Remember kids, don't mess with Space suit Dave.

>>51896295
If say, each ship could do 5 of the potential missions, with a little flavour text to explain how they ended up in that scenario, I'd say that'd fix it.

>>51896347

After all, time is really just a series of tubes, isn't it?

>>51896347
The moment combat starts and it's in an enclosed environment you are on his favorite terrain.

Only in open environments is there a hope of survival because you might be able to run faster then him.

>>51896680
No, you see time is more like a bunch of....
wibbly-wobbly.... timey-wimey....
stuff.

>>51895328
Worth noting that by the end of the episode, the events that lead to the 29th century ship crashing into Earth were prevented, meaning that timeline never came about. So whenever someone tries to use it as justification for a "quiet" Eugenics Wars, I want to strangle them.

The Eugenics Wars were not a shadow war, or at least, such has never been stated in any canon source. There was a novel that posited that they were, but that novel wasn't canon, and a tie-in comic for Star Trek XIII: The Wrath of Khan II: Electric Boogaloo instead shows Moscow and Washington DC getting nuked outright in the 80s. Since it's the more recent non-canon, and arguably soft-canon, I'll take it over that Khan novel.

>>51897290
Oh, if anyone's curious...

>Star Trek: The Slow Motion Picture
>Star Trek II: The Wrath of KHAAAAAAAAAN!!!
>Star Trek III: The Good Bad One
>Star Trek IV: The One With the Whales
>Star Trek V: Wherein God Needs a Starship
>Star Trek VI: The One With the Klingon that Quotes Shakespeare
>Star Trek VII: The One With Both Captains
>Star Trek VIII: The One With the Borg
>Star Trek IX: Space Luddites
>Star Trek X: Galaxy Quest
>Star Trek XI: The One That Killed the Franchise
>Star Trek XII: The One That Rebooted the Franchise
>Star Trek XIII: Wrath of Khan II: Electric Boogaloo
>Star Trek XIV: Classical Music

>>51897298
>Star Trek XIV: Classical Music

Best one since Space Whales.

New thread.

>>51899084