Horus Heresy General - /hhg/

First for calth

>>51774337
wut

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what have I done

First for my primarch could probably beat up yours 1v1 irl

>>51774401
I dont know what I would do without that bits shop

What are top 10 worst plot armors in 40k universe?

>>51774531
1. Chaos
2. Emprah
3. Rowboat Girlyman
4. Blueberries in general
5. The Tanith 'We kill Chaos muhreens and out-stealth Mandrakes' First & Suey
6. The Entire Eldar Species
7. The Ultramarines
8. Any Chaos characters written by ADB
9. Asdrubael Vect
10. Trollzyn

>>51774531
The thin layer of air around starships that kept Guilliman alive without air outside Maccrage's Honour.

Whatever kept Loken alive on Isstvan III.

Were the only DG that survived Isstvan III Garro's guys?

>>51774621
>Whatever kept Loken alive on Isstvan III.

Spite and Fury

Same thing Morturg runs on.

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>>51774408
Fist-fighting is juvenile.

The true test of a Primarch is in organisation, strategy and politics. The Primarch's martial abilities were the least impressive aspect of them, their minds were where they were truely post-human.

And in that arena, only one Primarch eclipsed his brothers.

Red or silver faceplates for WB?

>>51774621
>The thin layer of air around starships that kept Guilliman alive without air outside Maccrage's Honour.

Still my favourite book in the series.

>>51774666
666
satan suggests red. just test model em bro

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>peanut gallery guy who vocally insists that chain axes are not free got punched in the face by the world eaters player because he started to pick up the guys models


Who else's Friday is going great?

>>51774704
>that happened

>>51774704
I want to believe

>>51774704
I wish this actually happened but no proof means just bait

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>>51774704

>>51774659
t. primarchlet

Guillman is like a poor man's Horus minus the heresy, and also minus the cojones

>>51774704
>got punched in the face by the world eaters player

Anyone else roleplay during their games?

>servo-automatas cost 12pts.
>come in units of 4

I'm so triggered I can't even.

>>51774757
He didn't even use his free chainaxe IRL

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>>51774750
>Worlds ruled by Guilliman: 500
>Worlds ruled by Horus: ???

>>51774723

I don't blame you for not believing me, I wouldn't either.

The guy picked up a tactical and went "THIS IS NOT FREE" and from there, nails time.

>>51774531
Russ being immune to Magnus's psychic powers is up there. They wanted to write a duel but it didnt work unless they ignored what 'should' have happened.

>>51774778
Gulliman fags it up with xenos now, so who really fell?

>>51774531
1.Imperium
2.Chaos Gods
3.Cadia
4.Grey Knights
5.Russ surviving Prospero
6.Emperor
7.Abaddon
8.Kharn
9.The Fang
10. Imperial technology

>>51774781
This

They should have just had russ try to fight magnus, and failing. But magnus couldnt destroy his brother and lets him walk away, at which point a dishonored russ orders them to just glass tizca from orbit, at which point magnus holds off the bombardment long enough to transport all his sons away, but the effort destroys his body, at which point he becomes a daemon prince

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Okay /hhg/, for this thread:

What new generic unit would you want added to 30k? Any faction.

Knight drop pods

>>51774621
>The thin layer of air around starships that kept Guilliman alive without air outside

Not plot armour when it's introduced by the very same plot that got him ejected into space in the first place.

>>51774841
I remove drop pod model. Units just deep strike like the drop pod is there. Save me some money and some mad boring vehicles.

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>>51774314
I love you bread-anon.

>>51774795
>so who really fell?

Horus. Definately Horus.

>>51774778
Guillman got pimp slapped to the ground by Lorgar, the literal and unironic weakest primarch, and was too afraid to commit his resources, nobody is taking him or his meme legion seriously in 30k.

>>51774781
>>51774837
Was Russ immune? Seems like Magnus was just holding back and using most of his psychic power to hold back 6000 space woles and custodes while the TS escaped into his palace. Also all primarchs have psychic potential and Russ's strong will and abhorrence of sorcery would present some resistance.

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>>51774841
Thunder Warriors.

>>51774693
It's the third fucking time I get 666 trips asking for advise about my WB. This is getting weird

>>51774659
The Warmaster, Magnus and Ferrus were also smarty pants.

>>51774917
have faith satan

>>51774401
I've wasted so much money on bits site, but fuck it.

>>51774841
if it gets a model definitely wulfen, they desperately need decent models and could actually look interesting if they weren't just wolf men. They eed to be american werewolf in london tier, gangly and obviously twisted.

>>51774686

It's the best action book in all of the Horus Heresy series. It has it all. Massive battles, a rain of battle tanks, awesome moments. The only downside is the abrupt end, but that's common to every last book Abnett writes.

So here is list in Alpha-2 Form

Previous advice was dropping a squad of vets for another rhino and a Sicaran Venator and another Rhino. I don't want to lose a squad of vets, but I do accept I need more Anti-Armor than "Hope they don't bring any".

So the question is: Are the Ammitara necessary? I put them in because they look cool in theory but I feel like they will infiltrate, volley once then get Templated and die.


2k: Thousand Sons, Pride of the Legion

265:: Praetor ML3, Jump Pack, Volkite, Digital Lasers, Iron halo, Force Axe (Pavoni)
285:: 5 Man Command Squad, Combat shields, Jump packs, Power Weapons(4), Volkites(4) (Raptora)

235:: 10 man Ammitara Cabal (Corvidae)

230:: 10 Man Sniper Vets with Psyker, Shred ammo, AA, PF (Pavoni)
230:: 10 Man Sniper Vets with Psyker, Shred ammo, AA, PF (Pavoni)
230:: 10 Man Sniper Vets with Psyker, Shred ammo, AA, PF (Pavoni)
230:: 10 Man Sniper Vets with Psyker, Shred ammo, AA, PF (Pavoni)
70:: 2 METAL BOXES

220:: Xiphon w/ Ground Tracking, Armored Cockpit

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>>51774904
>Set a daemon on Guilliman via the vox network and vented him into spehs in the hopes he'd die
>Because he was too much of a pussy to actually leave his flagship at all during the Battle of Calth.
>Despite having the upper hand because the Ultramarines weren't even fighting back at that point.
>pimp slapped

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>>51774704
WE players being unstable is nothing new.

>>51774885
>>51774915
Yes Thunder warriors, but warrior elite and power armour wearing ogryns were designed to tepresent them desu.

I want more non tank stuff for the solar auxilia and more ways to field veletaris ...maybe evrn something like valkyries to drop them instead of using dracosans.

>>51774610
>no SW or GK

are you kidding me?

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>>51774962
Good idea!

>>51774917
>>51774933
Doot.

>>51774780
>nails time
I keked. Stealing that one for future use.

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>>51774990
I'd like some less armoured Imperial Army. Just some guys in fur shakos and greatcoats.

Frankly, I love Astartes as scenery dressing, but since they're test-tube heroes, I don't find them that interesting.

I like the stories of the ordinary men who live and fight in a galaxy filled with demi-gods. The more ordinary the better, the Solar Auxilia are cool, but still too 'elite' for me.

>>51774985
I mean when he physically backhanded Guillman on Monarchia

>>51774780
If he didn't scream back 'FIRE THE URSUS CLAWS' as he threw a wild haymaker into the guy's face, it was a missed opportunity.

>>51775061
We DO have thr militia list for that, but it could be less shit.

Personally I need to get my hands on Inferno before I can meme again.

Last thread made me seriously consider creating space police SW.

>>51774837

>muh completely victimized maguns

Why are magnus-boos such utter faggots?

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>>51775061
I'd be down for that, or maybe just some more varied shooty provenances for the MaC, rather than their current two choices of "Discount Marines" or "Choppy cheap fearless horde". I like the latter as allies, they are excellent scoring tarpits, but it would be a tad boring as a main force.

>>51774841

Mechanicum Magos Biologis, which provide a nice range of poison weaponry and such, also act like apothecaries and boost survivability. Arming Adsecularis with poison weaponry akin to Deldar splinter rifles would make them much better, and they'd buff the ones they have/in unit, so you could have a volley of Poison 3+ or 4+ Shred Vorax shots.

Obviously not all that at once, but some of them. Maybe have a Magos Prime option, which does better buffs than the Enginseer option (And has Patris Cybernetica), which is just one of those, and those can be taken alone rather than just with Servitors, and attached like Commissars to any unit. Would slightly invalidate Lacarymaerta Priests, but it's not like they were any good anyway.

>>51775078
>Lorgar throws a temper tantrum because Daddy took his toys away
>Slaps his brother
>Brother doesn't rise to the provocation and just walks away

We're supposed to think it's Guilliman who's the bitch in this scenario?

>>51774905
Russ was immune to the point of allowing the narrative to get to the spot the author wanted. >Magnus shoots psychic bolt at Russ
>It doesnt work
>Magnus in h2h combat with Russ
>Psychic blade works just fine

There was absolutely nothing stopping Magnus from lifting Russ up into the air and pulling his lungs out through his asshole apart from the railroads he was stuck on. Thats fine I get how it thematically worked, but it is plot armour of the highest caliber.

>>51774985
Lorgar didn't want Guilliman to die as Kairos told him that they would loose the war if he killed girlyman

>>51775327

They lost the war anyway though.

>>51775327
Is 30k chaos the unrivaled king of 'just pretending to be retarded'?

>>51775339
Yep that's stupid but it's the fluff we have

>>51775303
Russ just passed his Deny the Witch test.

>>51775353
It definitely is

I heard Angelus is gonna have some Daemon stuff in it. Anyone think non-WB legions might get access to daemons via some diabolist type consul? I know I got some Nurgle daemons sitting and waiting for a chance to come out and play with my DG.

>>51775362
>Daemons tell lies

Who'd have though?!

>>51775444
but...bu...but he was sworn to truth!?!?

>>51775243
I'm not even a Lorgar-fag m8, I'm just pointing out that the physically weakest primarch was able to slap Girlyman to the ground with a slap, the most effeminate of strikes.

Imagine him going toe to toe with a real primarch ;^)

>>51775444
Not then, the gods had made a pact looking for a champion to set the galaxy in flames. Girlyman has been used too much in 40k fluff so killing him was impossible. However they could have thought of something better than him killing marines in space without helmet for days

>>51775464

Like when he dueled transfigured Lorgar to a standstill in Betrayer? :')

>>51774933
Why do people still think 666 is Satans number? It's 616, poxy monk changed it!

Only Eddie from Iron Maiden gets to call the number of the beast 666

>>51775464
Primarchs slaps can easily knock something of equal size of their feet. Guilliman let him hit him.

Proves nothing other than Lorgar being an emotional child.

>>51775576
settle down lorgar, no one cares.

>>51775595
Gulliman was the better man knowing if he fought back it would be like kicking a puppy!

>>51775679
Shut up Calgar

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>>51775464
>I'm not even a Lorgar-fag m8
you're certainly acting like one

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>>51775726
>Traitors don't like hearing the (Imperial) truth

No surprises there.

>>51775780
We prefer the primordial truth loyalist scum

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>>51775780

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>>51775777

>>51775856
Kek

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>>51775845
Disappointing but not unexpected.

>>51775890
Fuck, every time I paint in the morning one of my brushes ends up in my coffee cup. I guess I'm just tired.

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>>51775890
He is one of the warmasters own

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>>51775856

>>51775327
How does that work?

It'd be interesting to imagine the post-Heresy Imperium without the Codex Astartes.

>>51774610
Chaos first? Is that why 90% of books are about some power armored, corpse worshiping, thin blood killing dozens of ten thousand year old veterans?

>>51775367
>Deny the Witch
>Banana/SoS/Yiff force having enough dice to stop WC3 Smite

Jokes aside, Magnus being able to stop time on the entire fucking planet and cause continent-sized storm, and yet failing to just crush Russ is bullshit.

BL wanted to have their cake and eat it too. Either Magnus can do amazing feats of psychic power, or Russ can challenge him in direct duel. You can't have it both ways.

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>>51775856
>Achieve total surprise due to treachery
>Absolute orbital superiority
>Opponents unable to even communicate or power up their ships
>Still fail to destroy the XIII legion
>Primarch's daddy gets his heart ripped out due to Bond villian-tier gloating
>Primarch scampers off 'because he has more important things to do' the moment it becomes clear they fucked up and didn't achieve a total legion kill
>Ultramarines take 85%+ casualties, still manage to win Underworld War, despite enemies using warp hax

Are there any fuck-ups bigger than the Word Bearers?

>>51775916
He only told (and showed) Lorgar that if he faced Guilliman he would kill him but the war would be lost so Lorgar should act for victory and not for personal vengeance.
He didn't say why chaos would loose the war just that

>>51775998
Black library writters.

>>51775955
>BL is shit

Who knew. Imagine if primarchs had just been Marine+ and all the hype had been myths and legends, instead of fact. Imagine if Halo's Master Chief had been a genetically altered child soldier instead of literal space Jesus.

That's the problem when you let fans who've drunk the kool-aid make your fluff.

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>>51775917
>dozens of ten thousand year old veterans?
>i.e. the cowardly ones who ran away after Horus got btfo
>i.e. the ones who've been hiding in a giant warp anus to avoid fighting the loyalists
>i.e. the guys how spend most of their time raiding undefended worlds and lounging around in the warp snorting warp-dust of daemonettes, compared to proper Astartes who defend humanity from constant ayy lmao terrors 24/7
>Implying it's been 10,000 years for them given the warp's time fuckery

Yeah, I wonder why these 'ten thousand year veterans' get bitch slapped by proper soldiers who actually train and fight all the time.....

>>51776092
CALGAR JUST STOP

>>51776060
Issue is that would never work for Magnus, since from very start he was explicitly second most powerful psyker ever, meaning that every other insane psyker feat also made Magnus stronger indirectly.

>>51776060
>Imagine if primarchs had just been Marine+ and all the hype had been myths and legends

40k has some serious power-creep issues. I'd have liked them to be more limited.

>>51776060
so fans are basically like imperial citizens it's fun to think of it like that

>>51776116
It could just be wrong. Magnus was wrong a lot of the time, why not his fluff.

Magnus did nothing wrong

Russ and his band of bloodthirsty psychopaths should be purged

>>51774757
I've noticed that I have a worse temper when using my World Eaters.

Does that count?

>>51776187
>Magnus did nothing wrong
he lost

this is also the thing Horus did wrong, and Lorgar, and Angron, and Mortarion, and Fulgrim, and Perturabo, and Alpharius

>>51776187
>Magnus did nothing and this was wrong

>>51776187
>tfw you will never be as cool, powerful, wise, handsome or right as Magnus was.

Why even bother?

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>>51775339
Eh, the traitors don't think the war is over at all. MUH LONG WAR and whatnot. And the Codex Astartes is pretty much hamstringing the Imperium's ability to defend itself, sooooo....

>>51775726
You can't make me!

I've got 10 Fulmentarus Terminators in a Spartan and a Reaver Titan behind me.....So yeeeeh (shaking fist) poxy kids get off my land

>>51775910
I always end up doing that. I also do that when painting pictures, but it's a bigger brush. Thankfully still acrylic paint

>>51776276
I've got the gods on my side

How to run a Death Guard Orbital Assault list? Obviously I'm prioritising Terminators, and I'm putting a Leviathan in there. What else to use?

Not really come across one or used one myself so I'm looking for general sensible ideas for Orbital Assault.

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>>51776092
>He's never heard of the Cholercaust Blood Crusade

>>51776107
Never.

>>51776348
>Cholercaust Blood Crusade

Sorry, I don't play Age of Sigmar.

>>51774638
Morturg is (kind of) alive.

>>51775078
>>51775464
Nuh-uh, Malcador was slapped.

>>51776331
Yeah but they are stuck in the land of make believe like all god's, and can't actually manifest here to help you. Whilst my god-engine steps on your head.

Where's your God now Kyle, sorry Carman-Calgar took over!!

And Krak missiles take out your actual bodyguards

>>51776399
Cartman stupid autocorrect

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>>51776348
>the Blood Crusade was stopped by the 5th Company of the Excoriators Chapter
>The Excoriators are a Codex Astartes-compliant Loyalist Chapter of Space Marines
>Codex Astartes-compliant

>>51776243

Well, our Spiritual Liege is returning, so he'll fix everything.

>>51776399
The gods are everywhere just wait. We shall devour the galaxy

>>51776300
Glad I'm not the only one doing it.

>>51776243
>I don't understand micromanagement

People who fling shit at the Codex really just don't understand that's it's much easier to defend on multiple fronts with the approach Chapters take rather than how a Legion would go about it.

You're also ignoring the very real and then-recent possibility of Legions going rogue.

Breaking up the Legions was the best way to make sure the power of a chapter was limited, but sufficient enough for most tasks. It's crap fluff but 40k fluff states that a single company of Marines is usually more than sufficient to handle most threats.

It's why Raven Guard and their successors are so good at getting shit done. They break up pretty much as they can so they can be multiple places at once.

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Finally completely finished my very first squad, even though the second is already underway. Had to clean up the bases and replace the arms and weapons of two dudes to make them completely into tactical marines.

R8 and H8 my bitter boys. Filthy IFags need not apply.

>>51776543
>Another Bitterboy

Good basing though anon

>>51776480
Yeah, no. You see the problem there is that it's a lose lose situation for. Cause if you devour the galaxy there's nobody left to believe in your god's, and hence you no longer have power and no longer exist. Bit like when vampires kill all the human cattle. You win and blink no longer exist

Well done.

Universe resets, level 2.0

Anyway the one and only is back and will stop you.

Courage and Honour brothers

>>51776481
Happens to the best of us!

>>51774972
1) get a paragon blade on that preator.
2)you have shit anti-tank: for example, run a sicaran a contemptor-cortis and a contemptor mortis in my standard list, once i eat your 2 hp/av11 flyer, you are fucked

>>51776243
>the Codex Astartes is pretty much hamstringing the Imperium

Salty traitor detected

>>51776543
Ultramarine here.

Still really nice work there buddy. I like the worn and battled look better than the rolled out the factory look anyway

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>>51776543

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>>51775911
Indeed, and he obviously paints them well.

>>51776116
So why isn't the Emperor crushing entire planets with his mind, if he's so strong? It's almost like being a powerful psyker doesn't mean you're a D&D wizard.

>>51776543
looking good, but next time I'd advise just washing the eyes with Baal red over a white undercoat, as they currently look very splotchy

>>51776687
god damn they are sexy, fucking dunc

>>51776687
Those are gorgeous!

>>51776348
I wouldn't use the One Crusade that got stopped in its tracks by a lone Company of IF successors, with a newly appointed captain, as an example anon.

>>51774972
Most boring list ever, if I wanted to play against 4 tac squads and a flyer I'd play 40k. You're playing one of the most interesting legions with access to all sorts of cool toys and you bring tacs, rhinos and scouts. Also what do you do when your flyer gets shot down and then 'any' tank shits all over you.

>>51776679
It's one of the very first I shat out, hence the anime eyes. Maybe I'll around fixing it someday.
Filename made me laugh though.

>>51776757
Because cheap plastic anon

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>>51776687

>>51776706
There's other silly stuff, like steering a moon into a planet. If you have that sort of energy available (it's actually fairly easy to calculate), you have enough energy to blast clean the surface of thousands of planets. With power like that, the war should be easy.

>>51776687
He's got those old-school Squats too, right?

If I've got two phobos LR and two twin lascan boxnaughts, would that be sufficient anti tank at 2500? No flyers are an accepted house rule for my group

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>>51776788
calth was a mistake

>>51776706
Because, he took a vow of non-violence.

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>>51776769
rock on Iron warrior

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>>51776838
Don't even know if they were his. But they took Perty down.

>>51776798
Have to say I like this army too. Good work

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>>51776882

>>51774972
>Are the Ammitara necessary?
They are Head Hunter levels of bad. Drop them immediately.

>>51776878
fuck you that's far too heretical for my tases

>>51776878
I'm confused! I like. But, have you done NMM gold with metallic silver?

>>51776960
its not mine

>>51774401
Which bitz service? Bitz.and.more?

Why the hell Legiones Astartes take about 1k loses to conquere the planet and in 40k 1 company of 100 marines of Adeptus Astartes can conquer entire sector?

>>51777057
Codex.

>>51777057
Well, we call it "The Good Book" around here.

>>51777057
very terrible sense of numbers by fluff writers

>>51777057
Because the primarchs were all retarded.

>>51776612
>>51776757

I know I'm fucked vs armor, that is why I asked for advice.


>You're playing one of the most interesting legions with access to all sorts of cool toys and you bring tacs
Because Sekhmet are cheesy and boring. And I already have the metal Rubrics.

If you have any constructive ideas, I would love to hear them since I am already extremely aware that armor shits on this list.

>>51776347
Pls respond

>>51777057
Because 40k uses more humans whereas 30k uses more meta humans

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>>51777057
They didn't have the Codex Astartes pre-heresy.

Hence all the non-Codex compliant chapters in 40k have tiny numbers because they take so many casualties due to rejecting the wisdom of our Spirtual Leige.

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>>51775576
>Why do people still think 666 is Satans number? It's 616, poxy monk changed it!
Booyaka booyaka :^)

What will be included with Inferno? I have been completely out of the loop.

>>51777086
this

>>51777103
>asks for advice
>is given advice
>dismisses advice as he already knows the problem
>asks for more advice
Wtf do you want?

>>51776092

You forgot to add

>implying all Chaos Space Marines are veterans of the long war and not recent turncoats, renegades, or newbies that the rotting traitor legions uplifted from the treacherous masses they subverted

>>51775303
>There was absolutely nothing stopping Magnus
So, the SoS wasn't there and Primarchs have neither Adamantium Will nor can they attempt to Deny the Witch?

>>51774841
Some sort of unit that's a bit like 40k scouts in principle, (let's say WS & BS 3, Ld 7, in some cases* can't benefit from LA or ROW rules) but in power armour and that. Basically something to represent that as the heresy went on legions may have started thrusting marines into battle that weren't fully trained, just because they needed dudes pulling bolter triggers.

*So for example legiones astartes (world eaters) would apply, because you just hammer in the nails and job done, but say legiones astartes (alpha legion) would not because these guys haven't completed the intricate & extensive training required to pull mutable tactics off.

>>51777152
Check the op, check the archives, check forgeworld, check forums, check reddit, check the Internet. Everything you could possibly want is already out there.

Why are you so retarded?

>>51777223

Why are you such a defensive little bitch about a simple question?

>>51776203
>and Fulgrim, and Perturabo
You're wrong, they didn't lose.
They finally got out of a war they didn't give a fuck about. They won their own wars.

>>51777236
Cos you're a retard who hasn't paid attention for the past year and now wants to be spoon-fed.

>>51777167

The only advice I got was add Paragon Blade, and Remove Ammitara from someone completely unrelated (Which was what I asked about in the first place. Thank you anon).

Something relevant to the question would be nice. Potential solutions would also be nice.

I said I had shit anti tank in the list post and I need to fix it. Telling me I have shit anti tank and need to fix it is not advice, you are just restating the question.

Potential solutions are advice, something the responses lacked.

>>51777306
But >>51776612 also suggested 3 things for AT they use and you could as well that wood be better than those Ammitara

>>51777306
okay
get better antitank
eg a sicaran venator
ez pz

>>51777372
*would

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>>51777137
>Bobby
>Tfw you realize Guilliman was one of the few primarchs to have a mother, and she totally did call him "Bobby".
Huh. Primarch Bobby grew alright.

So just for fun, this is what I'm thinking of taking as my first 2500pt Ultramarines 30k force:

RoW Primarchs Chosen
HQ
Roboute Guilliman

Elites
Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought Extra Armour, Havoc Launcher, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons x 2

Troops
Legion Tactical Squad 14 Legion Tactical Space Marines
Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades, Bolters, Legion Vexilla
Legion Tactical Sergeant Artificer Armour, Bolter, Power Weapon

Legion Tactical Squad 14 Legion Tactical Space Marines
Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades, Bolters, Legion Vexilla
Legion Tactical Sergeant Artificer Armour, Bolter, Power Weapon


Heavy Support
Fulmentarus Terminator Squad Cyclone Missile Launcher,9x Fulmentarus Terminator,Fulmentarus Decurion [Power Axe], Legion Spartan Assault Tank Armoured Ceramite, Auxiliary Drive, Flare Shield


Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Grav-flux Bombard, Leviathan Storm Cannon, Phosphex Discharger, Twin-linked Volkite Caliver, Twin-linked Volkite Caliver]

>>51774659
>only one Primarch eclipsed his brothers.
Dorn, the man who defended the Emperor with three legions against nine plus the infinite armies of hell itself.

>>51777138
Well ain't that a kick to the head

>>51777567
Don't jump around this one, Carlos!

>>51777534
>5 units to make decisions how to use each turn
Sounds dull tbqhfampai.

>>51777534
Are you even using Primarchs chosen? This list doesn't with if so

>>51774841
Militia and Cults cavalry.

>>51777580
I was thinking Dean Martin song actually

>>51777543
Indeed!
S'all right, it's not as if Jagathai was taking back the space port, or as if Sanguinius wasn't holding the Eternity Gate himself.
Dorn did it all alone, and totally battled Horus too!

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>>51774841
Generic? tough call....

Assuming we can pull the "It's always been there" trick: For my money I'd have to say some kind of mobile infantry heavy weapons platform, like 40k centurions but not complete ass in looks. Example off the top of my head: squad min 5 max 10, FA slot, offshoot of seekers for fluff, all heavy weapons used by them have suspensors, may take rhino as a DT. however limit them to non-template weapons or make them cost as much as seekers

idea being that they'd be more useful in ZM, and for the legions that have limited HS slots or other restrictions (BA/RG come to mind, and recon co). Cost would need to be finely balanced to make them not an auto-include.

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>>51777467
>Primarch who had a proper family is better adjusted than a bunch of kids raised by hyper-macho single fathers

Not surprising really.

>>51777593
Yep you're right I miss read it, as I had to jump points around when I added the other 5 terminators, battlescribe didn't auto add the launchers. Back to the drawing board

>>51775917
Not chaos marines (which are partially represented on the list by AbbaDaBadoo characters), but chaos.

>people saying Magnus should have used warp fuckery to kill Russ
>when Tzeentch was playing him like a damned fiddle

Magnus just rolled 1s with dice loaded against him.
I dunno, remember when in ATS Russ survives a warpfire lance that everyone in viewing distance thought would reduce him to a smear of ash, and reflects it on his attacker, with ZERO explanation given as to how he did that.
We all just assumed he either has some secret anti-psyker shit, or Tzeentch wanted to fuck with that TS captain at that moment. Both could still be true but now it could also be his fucking retarded actual armour instead of plot armour.

>>51777592
That's what happens when 10 terminators cost 1080 points with a Spartan

>>51774985
I mean, you'd be right if Lorgar was ever at Calth. He never even entered the Veridia system.

>>51777664
>wanted to rape ultramarines
>didn't even enter
Why is lorgar so inept?

>>51777663
Why would you give the CML unit a Spartan? Surely you bought it for the 20 missiles a turn, which you won't be able to fire from inside the Spartan.

Is it okay to take GW rhinos in 30k?

Because if not the one I have is getting ORKED™

>>51777663
>>51777743
>THEORETICAL: This vehicle will keep us safe.
>PRACTICAL: I can't see the enemy, sergeant.

>>51777772
Yeah, it's fine. They're explicitly said to be in use in the black books.

>>51774841
Instead of adding stuff, rather I'd remove things that were a mistake:
>Praevians
>Rad servitors
>Cortus Dreads
>Leviathans renamed "Furibundus"
>:^)
>0-1 limit for Rapiers of one kind. So you can bring 3 thudd guns and 3 laser destroyers, but not 6 thudd guns
>Spartans return to their old points cost, and can either have Armoured Ceramite OR a Flare shield, but not both. Lords of war, like Malcadors, can still buy both. Because a Dedicated Transport =/= a LoW
>(Mechanicum Macrocarids will still be able to buy both, but a Flare Shield will prevent it to buy a Forward Assault Ramp with Frag Assault Launchers. Which it should be able to buy)
>Primarch's Chosen RoW, BTFO'd
>The same for the Iron Brethren and the Tank RoW (Grandpa Warfare remains because memery)
>So are in fact all fucking RoWs in the allies slot, unless you bring a Herald (which won't be a support HQ in that scenario)
>This means rites that require a second or legion-specific HQ like Creeping Death, Logos Lectora or the Black Reaving cannot be used in allied detachments.

Idk, would that make the game better or is my autism showing too much?

>>51776484
>You're also ignoring the very real and then-recent possibility of Legions going rogue.
That's fucktarded and you know it, can you imagine Dorn and Khan having to sit there while Guilliman (the guy who just came home after trying to build his own private empire) called them potential traitors.

>>51776581
>Courage and Honour brothers
>brothers
Not so much 'brothers' as 'cousins' these days thanks to your Primarch.

So seeing as we always hear about the same few tactics, /hhg/, what are your views on (viability or fair play, either or):

>Spartan deathstars
>Pride of the Legion vets as compulsory
>Cybernetica and Reductor.
>Militia and Cults Cult Horde and Tainted Flesh Levy blobs.
>Malcador Infernus'
>Allies, since I don't see many of them around.

And has anyone used Knight Errants (Malcador's dudes, not robots) in games? Saw one on stream and was interested. Seems like they'd fuck you over really easily, though.

>>51776484
>People who fling shit at the Codex really just don't understand that's it's much easier to defend on multiple fronts with the approach Chapters take rather than how a Legion would go about it.
So why couldn't they just have garrison forces as part of a greater legion, like, and this is just an example, how every single legion was already doing.

>>51777057
Because the threats were bigger in 30k. Read some of those battles, those Old Night terrors are crazy.
In 40k it's just Imperial rebels and shit most of the time.

>>51777848
Nah, these aren't hugely objectionable at all, with the exception of removing stuff, just rebalance the points.
Except for maybe Cortus Dreads. I kinda wish they didn't exist, they're too superior a choice compared to a jack of all trades Dread. I get wanting a dedicated assault coffin to suplement the artillery coffins, but the loadouts and rules for the two combined make the normal Dreadnoughts almost, almost pointless.

>>51777885
I really hope FW write that fluff better because spending 7 years licking wounds and playing house then turning up with 'The Best Book in the Galaxy' and insisting that everyone who shed blood defending Terra adhere to its rules is pretty pathetic

>>51777118
>>51776347
It's pretty straightforward... you take your tax-tical marine squads, HQ with bodyguard (artificer armor w/ 9-man vet squad or Terminator with 4-man squad), and whatever else you can fit.

Assault units should be in dreadclaws or Kharybdises. Assault Termies should be Tartaros. Shooty units like support squads or vets with combi-weapons (plasma for 2+ armor, melta for tanks) can use normal drop pods, unless of course they're in Cataphractii armor. The Leviathan should be great. Flyers help against tanks and other flyers. Fire Raptors and Avengers are great. Xiphons not so much.

>>51777177
Friendly reminder that the only concrete canon number for the traitor forces fleeing the death of horus is regimental standard's "fewer than three dozen".

>>51777930
The only problem I have with any of these is that Spartan deathstars seriously threatened to become almost as compulsory as your HQ and 2 Troops choices. It's calmed down slightly, but it's still kind of boring how optimal it can be to field one and how necessary it can be to be prepared for one.

>>51777848
I'd not mind most of that, and I'd love the Macrocarid change, but that would mean Scoria in an Assault Transport with a AV14, which would probably be OP since his limiting factor is slow movement. I mean, I'd love that, but I suspect it would be a massive dick move.

Not sure what the problem is with Rad Servitors, never heard about them.

Happy with the Legions no longer nicking our toys though, so thanks.


All of the other stuff seems fine, though. I'd also add for Legion Praevians to instead have worse automata, makes no sense they make them better than the Mechanicum, especially re. The Thousand Sons one. Don't fuck them too badly, though, I do like seeing them in more places, just not all the damn time.

>>51777611
Yes, but Dorn was overall loyalist commander during the siege, due to having designed it defences.
Also, there seems to be some unofficial seniority ranking based on which primarchs were discovered first, and Dorn was found before Sang and Khan.

>>51778003
>then turning up with 'The Best Book in the Galaxy'

Yeah, and pretty much the only functional legion left in the galaxy.

Might makes right.

>>51778035
Really? I'm fairly new to Heresy, started getting into it in October from 40k. How was it exactly good? I can see you'd need counters, but unless loads of Heresy missions are Kill Points I can't see how you couldn't just do the normal thing and feed it the odd troop and avoid the giant ball of points?

I'm probably missing something here.

>>51777641
>Not surprising really.
Never said it was...but it's not infallible either.

Fulgrim's parents begged the government to let them adopt him, and was raised humbly.

Perturabo was adopted by the royal family, but he never accepted their love.

Meanwhile, Sanguinius was raised by mutants and irradiated rocks, and was still more likeable than Bobby and on pair with Horus (First Among Equals), who had an infancy not unlike Curze's actually.

Ferrus was also raised by the Medusan wilderness and the whole Imperium owes terminator armours to him. His deeds endure, and based he was. Guilliman himself called him one of the Dauntless five. Ferrus didn't call Guilliman anything, because only Guilliman cared about nicknames, and only about those issued by him.

And I don't know why I think Vulkan was raised by a single father of middle-lower class. Maybe his wife had already been killed by Eldar raiders before he arrived. But he turned up cool.

Unlike Lorgar, who also had a father and attended to church regularly.

Or Magnus, who was also raised by a scholar

And Corax was raised by literal convicts and he nuked civilians...but he's a cool guy too? IDK, I've never seen him.

>>51777809
Alright neat, I'll dress it up with some resin doors or something.

That being said, the Deimos rhinos make me moist so I'll likely buy a couple of them in the future.

>>51778099
>still more likeable than Bobby

I dunno, Guilliman is described as being one of the most human Primarchs. Sangy is always described as being too beautiful and ethereal to relate to common men or his brothers.

Sure he's not an over-achieving prick like Guilliman but it's implied he finds it hard to connect with his brothers, he's channeling the Emperor's esoteric nature, without the psyker tricks to hide it.

>>51777743
Just because I have it doesn't mean I have to ride in it. I just brought it along for it to be there!

>>51778003
It wasn't just him. Humanity in general was scared of the legions (Terrans most of all), even the loyal ones. I think limiting their naval capabilities was a High Lords of Terra idea more than part of the codex.

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Show me your Alpharius models HHG, I need inspiration!

>inb4 pic

>>51774401
>>51774488
which bits site?

>>51778095
I wouldn't mind Guilliman having basically taken over the Imperium by force and the other Primarchs letting him because another civil war would kill them all. Would be a nice grimdark spin without going hur dur chaos already won XD.

>>51778099
>And Corax was raised by literal convicts and he nuked civilians...but he's a cool guy too? IDK, I've never seen him.
Corax was well-intentioned, but had terrible social skills. Bit of an asshole.

>>51778185
Why not just make one tactical squad 20 and put them in the Spartan?

>>51778199
I like the helmet version better than the bare headed plastic. It's a nice model but FW head is a better sculpt

I heard that the Dark Angels are going to have more "wings" than just deathwing and ravenwing when their legion list comes out. What are some ideas for the new wings?

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>>51778199
Well it is obvious! I am Alpharius!

>>51778257
The entire FWilliman model is the better sculpt.

>>51778245
That's a great idea. Also I'll just drop the RoW I don't think I need it!

I need a Guillman model and not sure whether to wait for the plastic or plum for the FW resin!

>>51778331
>not sure whether to wait for the plastic or plum for the FW resin
We were warned about you people.

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>>51778365

>>51778294
Yeah but £65 for 1 resin vs £45 for plastic and two extra figs, which my FLGS can get

>>51778365
Lol. Well I'm mixing FW resin and GW BaC and BoP plastic, Armorcast resin (old school Reaver) might as well chuck 40k plastic primarch in the mixer

>>51778401
>there are people so poor they skimp out on there Primarch
I'm not even a resinfag, hell, I didn't even start until B@C, but you're going to use a giant TSon as Guilliman? Really?

>>51778447
It could be worse. I just remembered I have that old Calgar crossed Guilliman model

How do you like your Sniper Veteran Sergeants?

I'm playing AL with Skorr so Power Daggers are in the mix as well and the squad will likely both Scout and Infiltrate.

>>51778493
>that old Calgar crossed Guilliman model
I am unaware of this model.

>>51778276
Do you mean ideas about potential rules or what the wings focus on because we already know what they do.

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>>51778294

I wish I had this Guilliman conversion to use in 40k

>>51778522
Oh? What do they do? Also post potential rules if you like.

>>51778055
>but that would mean Scoria in an Assault Transport with a AV14
Oh, that's right I forgot
Scoria's scepter will still deny FnP but won't cancel IWND, and his Vhodian sceptre will be using either the Voidreaper's (S+2 AP2 Fleshbane Armourbane MC 2-handed) or the Voidblade's (AP4 Entropic strike & Rending) rules, so that he's less of an auto-take and Draykavac has a reason to exist again.

Either that or Scoria loses his biggest meme: Eternal Warrior.

Not sure if Sigismund should have Eternal Warrior either. Losing it should even the odds in his fights with his supposedly-equal Sevatar, as well as Kharn too.
I mean, Kharn and Abaddon still live in 40k, while Sigismund doesn't. Who's the Eternal Warrior here, huh?
And I'm not even talking about Loken's reviving gimmick when it was Kharn who was noted for coming back to life once, even before Loken was even a thing.

So yeah, no Eternal Warrior for Sigismund either.

And if Abaddon isn't going to have Eternal Warrior, then at least let him swap his combi-bolter for an actual Paragon Blade, rather than for a fucking power sword.

Loken was originally armed with a chainsword but it was given Paragon rules...but the Warmaster's First Captain has a fucking power sword? Nonsense.

>>51778276
/hhg/ did a dreadwing RoW a while ago.
Dreadwing Protocol
>Effects
Scour and Cleanse: A detachment using this Rite of War must take Legion Destroyer Squads as their compulsory Troops choices, and may take Legion Destroyer Squads as additional Troops choices.
Mechanised Assault: Any model that can take a Rhino may take a Land Raider Proteus as a dedicated transport, any that exceeds the transport capacity to do so may take a Spartan Assault Tank.
We have come, we are Death: When two or more units from this detachment assault the same unit in the assault phase, they get +1 attack.
The Green Fire: Any character with the Legiones Astartes (Dark Angels) special rule can take a Phosphex Bomb for 10pts
In their element Moritats lose the Lone Killer special rule
>Restrictions
With the exception of the Moritat and Siege Breaker types, only a single Consul may be taken as an HQ
One Heavy Support slot is compulsory, and must be filled by a unit with the Tank type
Only one fast attack slot allowed
No unit in the Dreadwing is Scoring
No Allies or Fortifications

>>51778544
>cheating by hyping up on chaos juice
Nah m8, siggy lasted a thousand years without cheating, dude's eternal as fuck.

>>51778331
Shell out for the resin model. It's a much nicer mode, it's the correct model for the game and you can avoid the question of "why are you using that piece of shit model?".

Also using plastic mk4 and mk3 is not the same as using the shitty 40k guilliman sculpt.

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>>51778513
Got it off of evilbay a few years ago. Needs rescuing, striping and painting properly. Or replaced by the resin

>>51778612
I stand corrected and will atone for my deviant behaviour. Also better than the metal abhorrent>>51778627

>>51774659
Dorn did it better

>>51778657
Why is Dorn so perfect?

>>51778542
Okay well the basic dark angels rules are already out and they have rites of war for ironwing and ravenwing. 30k death wing are more like legion veterans than terminator armoured fallen hunters, they use both termie and artificer armour.

Dreadwing are the keepers of the legions nasty toys, think destroyers, phosphx, rad munitions, etc. Their job is total anhiliation of the enemy.

Stormwing are thought to be assault and breaches squads, they fight in zone mortalis situations.

Firewing is the last one and we know nothing about it.

>>51778742
>Okay well the basic dark angels rules are already out

Any good? Also thank you.

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>>51778179
>Sangy is always described as being too beautiful and ethereal to relate to common men or his brothers.
That's hardly his fault, and he's aware of it.
And he really tries to fit in. He's humble, which costs more effort for him than for Guilliman.
It's like Scananon, almost divine but he wishes to be seen as simply his legion's commander/an anon of HHG and nothing more.

I find his attitude ever more deserving of praise, for unlike Guilliman he's obviously different, had no parents to teach him better, has troubling dreams about the Warp powers trying to claim him, has to hide a terrible secret and even then is more humble than Roboute, who openly critisized Mortarion, Perturabo and Alpharius whilst spewing out opinions literally un-asked, unlike Sanguinius, who kept a prudent silence and was more prone to celebrate the positive differences among his brothers (like Dorn nor smiling) rather than berating them in public.

Srsly, just analyze this excerpt. How he mentions Magnus' appearance in jest (which regular 40k would find foul), but isn't amused in the very least by people calling him an Angel even as a literal praise.

TL;DR: Sanguinus was a better person than most Primarchs, and everybody loved him for a good reason.

>>51778742
>Firewing is the last one and we know nothing about it.
It's named for the Fire Raptors, which are takeable as troops :^)
>>51778764
FFS man, research shit.

>>51778542
Stormwing were basically Breachers and Dreadwing used a lot of Destroyers, phosphex, and vortex weapons. We have zero information about the Firewing.

Deathwing is probably similar to in 40k, except still in black.

Ravenwing and Ironwing are covered in Retribution.

>>51778718
Far from perfect but he had in my opinion the best mindset for the legions. Not even my favorite primarch but you got to give him his dues.

>>51778764
Not really, +1 to hit if attacking with a sword AND your opponent has the same weapon skill.

Also lose d3 victory points if your opponents out numbers you at the game end.

Dark angel strengths lie with their rites which are both powerful and restrictive

>>51777958
Because using them like that is retarded. Marines, even those who excel at it, are inferior to the mass numbers Guard and PDF can put out in numbers.

Having them roam about going to zones that need a lightning assault done right is way more useful than having a post human sitting on a planet where nothing is happening.

>>51778779
What book is that from?

>>51778593
Huh, I guess. What about the other stuff, though?>>51778544

>>51778849
That's still no reason why they can't be part of a greater legion. Expedition fleets are basically the same as chapters, but without retarded isolationism.

>>51778099
>Guilliman himself called him one of the Dauntless five. Ferrus didn't call Guilliman anything, because only Guilliman cared about nicknames

It's not a nickname though. The dauntless few are just the ones who Guilliman thought that allied with the Ultramarines would be an unstoppable force.
Guilliman shows himself to be a good judge of character as he lists not a single traitor.

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>>51778857
Fear to Tread

>>51778866
Makes a lot a sense, double-dubs. Abaddon should be nearly as good a beatstick as Sigismund, not "mutual punchout with sergeant" -tier.

>>51778896
>It's not a nickname
>It's just how Guilliman called them
Yeah, that's the definition of a nickname, you see. A substitute for the proper name of a familiar person, place, or thing, for affection or ridicule.

>>51778948
>Yeah, that's the definition of a nickname, you see.

But it's not. It's the name of a certain set.
Europe is not the nickname of Albania.
The natural numbers is not the nickname of one.

Set name != nickname.

>>51779016
If it weren't for the fact that Europe is actually the proper name for the continent north of Africa, you might have a good analogy.

>>51779016
>Europe is not the nickname of Albania.
If I called France, the UK and Germany "the ones that matter" regardless of how wrong I be, suddenly I'm not giving nicknames? Noted.

Also, your analogy is backwards. You're saying "The Legiones Astartes isn't the nickname of the Iron Hands".

>>51779049
Europe isn't a real continent though.
It is a political one. Europe is a set of countries.

>>51779077
>If I called France, the UK and Germany "the ones that matter" regardless of how wrong I be, suddenly I'm not giving nicknames?

Of course you're not giving nicknames.
A nickname would be calling France baguetteburg.
Creating a set name is not the same thing as creating a nickname.


>Also, your analogy is backwards.

It's not. I'm saying Guilliman didn't give Ferrus a nickname by including him in his set, in the same way Germany isn't being given a nickname when included in the set of Europe.

>>51779154
>Creating a set name is not the same thing as creating a nickname.
"The Three Amigos" is too a nickname.

Was catching up on the previous thread and I noticed some talk about the legions in their pre-primarch states.
Why is it that the Pale Nomads, War Hounds, Luna Wolves, etc, are viewed more favorably than the when they get their primarch?

>>51779154
>Creating a set name is not the same thing as creating a nickname.
You're talking about sets as in mathematics? I can understand those.
I'm not going to argue about your view on continental landmasses because I don't want to clutter the damn thread, so I'm going to say that yes, Europe is indeed part of the Afroeurasian continent, or Eurasian continent or whatever you like to think of it.
>>51779224
I propose we drop the subject of this dauntless one.

>>51778779
He was humble because he knew of his flaws. He didn't want to become warmaster only to turn into Dracula on meth while commanding the Imperiums might.

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>Surviving Thunder Warriors are still loyal to the Emprah even after he culled them
>Utterly immune to psykers and witchery
>Somewhere close to Custodes in terms of martial ability
>Simple to produce even in low-tech environments
>Really good at punching things to death, which is basically 90% of warfare in 30k

I like that they made TW not just 'Spehs Muhreens but not as good', but they really need to explain better why he culled them.

I get that they're incapable of anything but war, but realistically, how many space marine legions actually lived up to potential of their capabilities for non-martial activities? Ultramarines, Thousand Sons, maybe the Emperor's Children if you consider writing poetry a good use of transhumanism...that's it really.

Every other legion was either entirely focused on military affairs, or only branched out into other areas when it had military applications, like the Fists with architecture.

Sure the Thunder Warriors weren't disciplined soldiers, more barbarian shock troops, so they'd have taken way more casualties but still, couldn't he just produce wave after wave of them, conquer the galaxy in a few centuries, then exterminate them and propaganda over the whole thing like he did the Unification Wars?

No real risk of rebellion since Chaos can't do shit against psyker-resistant automatons with no emotions, compared to the Astartes/Primarchs with their immense pride and egos, only a slight decrease in outright military power....maybe the Great Crusade takes fifty more years because your troops occassionally dropped dead of super-cancer on the battlefield.

Seems like a fair trade.

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>>51779260
Because some anons are more fond of their old pre-primarch full Terran Vet theme. Especially about the War Hounds (disfigured into the World Eaters by Angron) and the Pale Nomads (no-nonsense blade and talon marines who were exiled by Corax).

About the Luna Wolves, that term is used to talk about the XVIth and their early crusade Principia Belicosa theme. People often forget Horus LUPERCAL was a Luna Wolf for more than a century, but was the leader of the Sons of Horus for less than six years.

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>>51779260
Because the Primarchs are the ultimate Mary Sues and infect their legions with it.

Unity era muhreens best muhreens. No school like the old school.

>>51779265
>You're talking about sets as in mathematics?

As in sets.
In order to have a nickname a thing must first have a proper name.
There is no proper name for the set of Primarchs that Guilliman would call the dauntless few.
Guilliman named that set of Primarchs the dauntless few, thus giving them a proper name.
A band name is not a nickname.

>>51779317
MoM says Thunder Warriors were shit and would be raped by the foes the Marines would have to face in the wider galaxy.

>>51777057
The galaxy was full of fucking horrors left over from the long night. Shit so scary that it took a legion of super humans to grind down, the current galaxy is tame compared to 30k.

>>51779317
I think he might have been worried about how easily he could control them over the whole galaxy.

The Astartes were all loyal to him until Monarchia (excepting Angron). If he wasn't such a mouthbreathing retard when it came to making people follow him, then things would have turned out better.

The Thunder Warriors, on the other hand, might not have done so well.

And even then I think he probably intended to kill of the Astartes too so he could have S3 T3 I3 human supremacy.

>>51778718
As good at marine chess and girlyman but with fevor and inspiration rather than hierarchy and copy pasta

>>51779317
Many of the legions could be used as empire builders in some form or another. Thunder Warriors were just killers.
>but so were the World Eaters or insert argument here
Correct, but they were industrially produced superior killers in legion formation and handled with full awareness of that until the Crusade got too big. The War Hounds for example, were deployed piecemeal until the Emperor formed the Bloody 13th Expedition. When they went full psycho, he sent them off to just kill xenos and nowhere near areas of space suspected to contain colonies.
Marines were also expected to operate inside the wider Imperial force structure, and so were trained and educated with that in mind.
Note that towards the end of the GC, marines were becoming outdated - there was less use for the straight up killer legions, and even a lot of the more civilised legions couldn't get their heads around the emerging requirements of governing bureaoracies.

>>51779335
Not those guys, but that is some retarded ass semantics to try and win an internet fight.

>>51779335
>Dauntless WHO?
t. Ferrus & Dorn
>If it makes my brother happy, sure, we'll be the Dauntless Ones. Too bad my brother Horus and the rest of our kin haven't arrived already
t. Sanguinius
>I WANT TO HAVE WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DRINKING, ROBOUTE! HAHA! *punches him in the pauldron*
t. Russ
>If they had been girls everything would have remained literally the same...but with boobs
t. Malcador
>...yeah yeah, of course I love you too. I'm just...busy right now...
t. The Emperor

>>51779260
I assume he found them too hard to control after a battle. One of the great things about Astartes is that they don't pillage and rape. Makes compliance more likely and more profitable (i.e. worlds recover faster).

>>51779428
It's not semantics.
If you accept that the dauntless few is a nickname then you must accept that all set names are nicknames and then nickname loses all meaning.

>>51779480
Keep on trucking, semanicpator.

>>51779260
legions without daddy issues, whats not to like?

>>51779358
>MoM says

MoM says a lot of things.

>Hurrr emprah is super-autist who refers to Horus as 'the 16th'
>Durr the Primarchs are 100% disposable

Gee, that's really going to make the whole 'couldn't bring himself to strike down his most beloved son' thing a bit tricky isn't it. Also contradicts half a dozen different instances in previous HH books.

Don't even get me started of the Emperor freaking out over visions of future-Abaddon and the super-daemon that even the anathema of chaos can't kill that lives in his sword.

ADB shouldn't write loyalist books, he's incapable of objectivity.

>>51779527
>ADB shouldn't write loyalist books, he's incapable of objectivity.

At least he fixed the retardedness of Thunder Warriors being better than Space Marines.

>>51779389
>the current galaxy is tame compared to 30k.
Also this, but a lot of this.
The War of the Beast was a reminder of the Great Crusade, now the notion of an ork empire in 40k is but a fucking shadow when compared to the Ork Empires of old...like the space marine chapters themselves when compared to the Space Marine Legions.

>Oooh, I don't remember a battle as hard as the Beast! Not since Ullanor boohoo!
Ullanor was fucking easy, since Horus and ten termies literally killed the Ork warlord.
Meanwhile, Gharkhul Blackfang was close to killing Horus, Mortarion and Dorn and the Emperor had to bail them out.

You don't get that in 40k. Not anymore.

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>>51776234
Are you sure?

>>51777848
Leave my covus dreads alone! They are fun as fuck to play

>>51779499
Which of the many daddy issues there are?
Because the War Hounds were fucking envious of all the other legions that already had their Primarchs.
They were even envious of the Iron Warriors when they saw Perturabo, they were THAT desperate to find their Primarch.

>>51778779

If you can't hold Sanguinis flaws against him then in the interest of fairness you can't hold Guilliman's lack of them against him either.

Sure, Sanguinis works extra-hard to not be an asshole and that's commendable, but Guilliman is also not an asshole and, unlike basically every other Primarch, would have every RIGHT to be one if he so chose, due to his unique accomplishments.

That's also commendable.

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>>51779499
Malcador was right, they should have made the Primarchs female.

Female daddy issues are much more managable

Sure you'd occassionally have to deal with a scandal after some of the Emprah's daughters are photographed slutting it up in clubs on some newly compliant paradise world because they don't feel like the Emperor is paying them enough attention, and FemLupercal would probably bring some xenos warlord as her date to the Ullanor triumph just because her dad told her to hate the aliens, but it's all a lot less destructive than massive civil wars and attempted patricide.

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>>51779575

>>51779527
Not to defend it, as it wasn't super, but just to re-iterate that the people the Emperor was talking to when he called the primarchs numbers were Land and Ra.
>Land
Percieves the E wearing a fucking labcoat and hears the E using a scientific lexicon and stilted, precise speaking cadence, spends most of the conversation creaming in his pants about how the Emps is the perfect, dispassionate scientist
>Ra
Doesn't like the Primarchs, dgaf about Marines or anyone's feelings other than muh honour of the Custodes, the E speaks to him like a dad the whole time trying to impart lessons, tells him that the Custodes are the only ones he really cares about honest son, and in fact is revealed to have Just As Planned Ra throughout the entire book to create a being primed to make the ultimate sacrifice.

What to take from that is that the Emperor is a manipulative bastard of the highest degree, so YES he probably doesn't actually care all that much about his sons and on many levels sees them as just tools, but also note that he's not behaving honestly to the people he's talking to and it's not outrageous to assume his true feelings for say, Horus, are different.

Whether all this needless complexity was required on a good thing, well...

>>51779542
I liked it, them being just inferior versions of spehs muhreens was boring. Now they've got more of a niche, it makes the Emperor's switch to Astartes more involved than just 'they were just the beta version'.

>>51779596
They were still cooler as warhounds. He asked why they are so well regarded. Plus being terran and have very little BL material written about them.

>>51776915
Are they that bad? Please elaborate
not being sarcastic, true advice needed!

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>>51779602
>We have the right of being assholes because we're the very best
Spoken like a true Ultramarine

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>>51777090

>>51779626
>them being just inferior versions of spehs muhreens was boring.

No, it made sense.

>Now they've got more of a niche

No they don't. Their niche was World Eaters but better.

>it makes the Emperor's switch to Astartes more involved than just 'they were just the beta version'.

It makes the Emperor seem super retarded to unleash the more devastating soldiers in his own heartland while putting out wimps to conquer the galaxy.

>>51774962
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-BE/Skin-Wolves

this in tattered mk3

>>51779613
>What to take from that is that the Emperor is a manipulative bastard of the highest degree, so YES he probably doesn't actually care all that much about his sons and on many levels sees them as just tools, but also note that he's not behaving honestly to the people he's talking to and it's not outrageous to assume his true feelings for say, Horus, are different.
This.
It's your fault for believing the biases of the people the Emperor is talking to, rather than just your own.
After all, everything He does is for the good of mankind.
Plz accept my own bias :^)

>>51779613
This is a good point, I hadn't really considered that.

I still feel that, as our first proper look at the Emperor, it focused to much on making him unlikable. Not that I would have liked him to be Papa Emprah who loves all his children THIS much etc etc, but it just didn't feel balanced.

All we see is him being a colossal dick, followed by him being not actually being very good at prescience after all, followed by him being a dick again.

Because it cast so much doubt on 1. His ability to actually follow through with his claims to save humanity and 2. The validity of his precognitive abilities, it basically just made him look like some bloodthirsty, egotistical Unification Wars warlord who made good.

>>51779634
Have to harness their WC2 power on a 4+ that gives ignore cover and re-rolls with sniper rifles.
That's what you do with them. That's it.
They aren't crazy expensive so if you can squeeze them in or love the idea, do it, but you can't guarantee their Thing will happen.

If you want to gamble and use a fluffy unit and can spare the points, run Blade Cabal, they're potentially hilarious.

>>51777848
>Praevians
But they are so cool

>>51779680
Unification Wars were pretty gnarly, even by the standards of the Great Crusade.

Astartes are the production model, maybe not as strong or fast individually, but they can be produced en masse and fight efficiently in large numbers due to their sense of brotherhood and adoration of their primarchs, something the Thunder Warriors never had since they had the emotional capabilities of a cardboard box.

Like anon said earlier, given how their described, although they'd be loyal, you probably couldn't trust Thunder Warriors not to start slaughtering compliant worlds just because a minor rebellion flared up or something. Fine under the direct supervision of the Emperor, not so good scattered all over the galaxy.

>>51779715
>>51779634
To add to this, you can build TS Vets (at a much higher point cost obv, and using Ahriman) to do almost exactly the same thing but with more useful weapon loads. Plus they have additional flexibility and can be scoring.

>>51779753
Perhaps the Mechanicum should be allowed Cortus dreads too?
No.
Render therefore unto the Astartes' the things which are the Astartes'; and unto the Omnissiah the things that are the Omnissiah's

>>51779773
Nah. Unification Wars were nothing compared to the shit out in the galaxy.
You send uncontrollable elements to the fringes, not keep them at the bosom.
It makes no sense.

I'm glad ADB fixed it, it;s the one good thing from MoM.

>>51779817
>it;s the one good thing from MoM.
I think you'll find that that was Drebin and Little Grey cosplaying as a Mechanicus Explorator and his venom-monkey.

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>>51779846
...so the High Lords of Terra are actually Silica Animus impersonating them?
Which is why the traitors call for the end of their falsehoods?!

The shift in emphasis from
>space marines are the front line troops of the galaxy and normies are for garrisons
to
>space marines are apex warriors that are only called for the gravest of situations, normies handle most problems
is something I love, and why the Emperor will always be a great guy no matter what daddy issues BL has. Think about it: before Emps, the galaxy was so bad that super-soldiers in power armor were merely adequate for winning. You could lose thousands of them fighting nobody in particular and that was just another Tuesday. Any threat in 40k that could kill that many marines (full multiple chapters) would be something Terra would sweat over. The concept of launching a crusade with a bunch of regular guys was laughable, because the power level of the enemy was so much higher.

Ten thousand years later, humanity is still running off inertia from his machinations. Any force that can uphold humanity for that long without being capable of leaving a fucking chair is good, full stop.

>>51779900
or the writers don't understand scale

>>51779715
>>51779789
OK, thanks. I'll test them anyway, but I believe they won't pass that stage. Psychic Sniper Vets are awesome - my meta is filled with MCs

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>>51779846
>Unification Wars were nothing compared to the shit out in the galaxy.

Where'd you get that from? In the HH series, they're described as being staggeringly brutal, to the point where Imperial scholars during the Great Crusade don't even believe half the accounts of the battles.

Terra was basically the most fucked human planet during Old Night, nothing else compared. You've got rampant psykers puppetmastering entire populations, witches summoning daemons, despots churning out millions of genetically engineered techno-barbarians and Martians trying to do smash-and-grabs for any decent tech.

Realistically, only xenos strongholds like Ullanor or Murder would provide a greater challenge, and the Legios are much better equipped than the Unity armies were.

>>51779812
I think the Mechanicum doesn't even need dreads

>>51779970
Derp, meant for; >>51779817

>>51779812
Donkey tanks are basically dreads, the Skitarii pilot is hardwired into the tank for the rest of his/her life, when they die from the stress of operating the vehicle, they just pull the body out and wire the next volunteer inside.

>>51779970
>Where'd you get that from?

Reading the fluff.
The Legions fought foes that spanned many worlds.
Terra was just a shit hole, not a military power.

>>51780025
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Assault_on_the_Tempest_Galleries

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>>51780018
mechanicum is the most grimdark thing in the entire warhammer. I still have goosebumps after learning that Thallax have their senses overloaded forever...

>tfw you cannot blink

>>51780025
>Reading the fluff.

Missed the parts where the Unification Wars are legendary even to the Astartes?

The Emperor had a lot less to work with during the Unification Wars and Terra crammed a sector's worth of shit into a single planet.

>>51780041
What's your point?
Did they control multiple worlds?
No, they were some tiny faction.

>>51780080
>Missed the parts where the Unification Wars are legendary even to the Astartes?

No. Legendary doesn't mean hard.

>>51780050
Yeah, I have to headcanon my Skitarii as belonging to a Magos Biologis who actually finds humans and life in general scientifically interesting, so takes a bit more care over her charges.

Can't cope with excessive grimdark.

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>>51780050
>>51780018
>Donkey tanks are basically dreads
WELL THEM GIVE THEM TO 30K THEN.
Also, they don't die from the stress. They're in fact quite happy about it.
They die from overuse, but the Skitarii happen to be a quite dutyfull bunch.
Srsly, they like it I swear.
If you were to unplug one of those lads from there he'd rad punch you in the face then crawl back inside.
Thallax and Ursarax, on the other hand...
>>51779974
I think Cortus dreads kill Domitars and are cheaper

>>51780113
>Legendary doesn't mean hard.

This pretty much proves you've definately not actually read the fluff on the Unification Wars.

Enjoy your headcanon.

>>51780118
>they don't die from the stress
>They die from overuse

Oh well that's ok then.

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>>51780114
>Can't cope with excessive grimdark.
It's not grimdark if you're Loving It™, anon!
Now come get closer!

>>51780118
>We need something that could take on an Astartes
>I know, we'll cram some poor sod's skull and spinal column into a robot and set it to constantly zap his nervous system unless he's killing something!
>FUND IT!

Frankly I'm surprised the entire Mechanicum didn't fall to Chaos.