Morning edition The Good Old days sub-edition The IW and I

First for warsmiths.

>>51691081
Are jetbikes any good for a combat praetor?

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Fuck Horus

Why do people shit on SW so much?

>>51691096
Horus did nothing wrong.

>>51691005
Nevermind, I've solved the problem. The exact wording for what flyers are available as a Suborbital Strike wing includes "A single Superheavy Flyer" that must not be normally allowed in the army list, so no extra Lightnings, but does not have the same "Cannot have a Heresy counterpart" as the other box.

That means I can have the Stormbird as a single Lord of War choice in a 4000pts or higher army, and without having to restrict the rest to an Allied Detachment and not being able to take the Skyshield Landing Pad it needs to be decent. I can even pick the 40k or 30k version.

Perfect. Huzzah for rules wording-fuckery, which is actually helpful for once.

Filiketos gunship is back on track.

>>51691053
Fat chance of that happening this year. But I guess I'll drop them another email about it. Not that they've answered any of the ones I've sent so far.

>>51691081
PERTURABO IS A MEME

>>51691102
Horus was a fool!

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How's my newest Night Lord?

>>51691099
The Thousand Sons was good bois.
They dindu nuffin.

>>51691119
Would look nicer with less blood on the helmet.

>>51691128
They should have listened to the Emperor. He knee what he was talking about.

>>51691119
So the NL dress like DAs now? Spoopy :^)

>>51691099
The whole psyker hypocrisy thing, and some (SOME) members of the playerbase can be pretty obnoxious. For example, since Inferno dropped the mods on B&C have twice had to issue warnings in the SW tactica thread over excessive bitching and whinging. Nothing of the sort has happened in any other legion's tactica thread, it's just some of the wolf players who can't keep their shit together.

>>51691118
THIRTEEN
H
I
R
T
E
E
N

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>>51691134

But... But then where I put all the blood I find?

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What are some good cloaks for Custodes?

>>51691144
The Emperor is such a hypocrite, he bans psykers among the astartes and censures the Thousand Sons while making deals with the Chaos gods themselves.

Is the DAngel winged helmet a post-heresy thing, or would it be okay if I used them on heresy DAngels? I wanna customize muh duds, but I don't feel like upsetting my erautism

>>51691149

What?

>>51691212
Winged helmets are kosher. They are the emperor's angels after all

>>51691205
Like father, like thousand sons.

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>>51691212
>>51691236
Pic related

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So is everyone here that's going to make a Thousand Splendid Sons army just going to take terminators?
After looking at Guard of the Crimson King there doesn't seem to be much point in doing anything else

>>51691258
Awh man, Heresy DAngels look so much cooler than 40K DAngels
Welp, good to know cloaks are still in, too

>>51691284
Indeed, brother. I do wish they had kept the black armor I really dislike the color green

>>51691205
Nope. Everyone but the Emperor shouldn't be allowed to use psychic powers.

>>51691319

The loyalist a still wear black.

Does anyone have images of the secutarii stuff from Inferno? The link in the OP doesn't work.

>>51691321
In the novel Blind there's a puritanical sect that believes all psykers should be lobotomized, because they think only the Emperor can have psychic powers and free will.

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Some progress on the flamer guys. Highlights and washes tomorrow.

>>51691362
Are you painting them with a brush? You really paint fast.

>>51691356
Sounds about right. Psychic powers seems to be the root of all evil.

>>51691372
Yes. I dislike the airbrush look.

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>>51691352
Here's the PDF. On the whole, nice, shiny, fluffy and cool, even if they did nerf Peltasts a tad. I know I'm getting a Hoplite drop squad.

>>51691379
I wouldn't mind using an airbrush for basecoating.

>>51691356
That's also what happens in the Primarch: Magnus novel.

Old terran colonists realized psykers were going to destroy them, so they lobotomized them into non-existence.

But psykers are such little shits that they still managed to fuck it all up for them in the future.

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>>51691401
Just use a big brush and lots of water.

>>51691334
Repent

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>>51691423
The sect didn't want to destroy psykers, they still saw the use of navigators and astopaths. The idea was that they'd hook them into machines and just use them as biological antennas and sensors. They's just be psychic servitors driven by machine programming.

>>51691099
I hate 40k nü-wolves and the emphasis on wolf this, wolf that.

With the Vlka Fenryka, I like the flawed nature of all the legions, so their hypocrisy about psykers is okay with me. I like savage, spiritualist more than some mead swilling broheims with wolf sleds and wolf blades.

>>51691452
That sounds ideal. You can't be tempted by Chaos if you no longer have desires.

>>51691466
>I hate 40k nü-wolves and the emphasis on wolf this, wolf that.
Blood Angels, White Scars and Salamanders are just as bad.

>>51691488
Dark Angels is about to get shitted up with the plot advancement in 40k.

>>51691362
Forgot to ask in the last thread, what are you base coating with?

>>51691503
Ushabti Bone over army painter white spray.

Are there any Legio Custodes psykers?

>>51691205
His overall plan was to rid himself of psykers when the time was right, even navigators, in favor of using the webway for travel instead of the warp. But since the webway project all went to hell because of Magnus, that never happend.

Just like he rid himself of the thunder warriors, the psykers were just means to an end.

>while making deals with the Chaos gods themselves.
Any source on this? Has this been confirmed?

>>51691528
None whatsoever.

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>>51691466
>so their hypocrisy about psykers is okay with me.
Stop liking what I dont like, anon

>>51691488
t. Yiff apologist
When Blood Angels, White Scars, and Salamanders are literally riding on bats/horses/dragons, with the option for pet bats/horses/dragons, while covered in the fucking pelts of bats/horses/dragons, while ALL their special weapons and armor make bat/horse/dragon references, then they are on the same level.

My attempt at Yiffs
RoW: Pale Hunters

LoW
Leman Russ
Wolfkin
555 pts

HQ
Geigor
Wolf
150 pts

Wolf Priest
ML2, x2 Wolves, Artificer Armour
155 pts

Wolf Priest
ML2, x2 Wolves, Artificer Armour
155 pts

Elite
Apothecary x3
195 pts

Contemptor Dread
x2 CCW, x2 Graviton Cannon
225 pts

Troops
Grey Slayer Squad x20
x20 Bolters, Frost Axe
280 pts

Grey Slayer Squad x20
x20 Bolters, Lightning Claw, Melta Bombs
280 pts

Grey Slayer Squad x20
x20 Bolters, Lightning Claw, Melta Bombs
280 pts

Heavy Support
Predator x3
225 pts

Total: 2,500

Geigor and Wolf Priests go with the Grey Slayers and Apothecaries
Have the axe guy to be Bjorn
Leman, Wolfkin, one Predator and the Dreadnought stay in reserves
Our LGS doesnt do flyers at all, so dont have to worry about that

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Is more of your stuff plastic yet?
Planned army is over 1k bong dollars if it's all coming from FW

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>>51691647
>SW using Contemptors

>>51691545
The means justify the ends.

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>>51691669
Yes they do.

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>>51691669
Perfectly fluffy. Though I'd use the Cortus for the extra erratic behavior and shoddy construction.

>>51691669
Why? Is Leman hating Contemptors a thing?

>>51691150
What are they bitching about?

>>51691669
>>51691732

>yiffnoughts are so angry and frightful they make even World Eaters scared

>>51691081
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8hPLu3gYq0
Whats the name of the music track in the video it's been bugging me for a while?

>>51691744
They just think that the Contemptor Dreadnaught drives the individual inside crazy. So Space Wolves being superstitious barbarians figure that it can't hurt to put an already crazy person in one.

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>salamanders hate old night stuff, not allowed moritats or destroyers
>death guard hate psykers, still allowed to use librarians

>>51691777
They were falling to Chaos, "librarian" could be warrior-lodge types, or the underlings of independent-minded or loyalist commanders.
Salamanders' humanitarianism is ingrained in their culture, psyker-hatred is mostly a Barbarus thing that Mortarion took to the extreme.

>>51691777

Might as well complain about lack of a librarian ban on IF, UM, and all loyalist legions present at Istvaan 5.

In his eyes, the greatest symbiotic parasite the galaxy's ever known isn't biological. It's empyreal. Psychic power is what keeps civilization, our imperium, alive. Free the imperium, not by taking lives but by taking minds.

>>51691754
Probably not having OP rules.

I'm perfectly happy with what I got. I get to make extra HQs, buy some doggos, my tacticals got a little better, my breachers (which I thankfully didn't assemble yet) got cheaper, and the RoWs didn't fuck any of the things I already had.

>>51691771
Well that works for me, since a dread smashing into vehicles with his grav-smackers fits that fluff pretty well

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>>51691389
May you school me on the Secutarii?
The GW Kyropatris was better I think (buy more minis TM) and neither Hoplites nor Peltasts surprise me.

As in, is it worthwile for a Reductor army to bring a Warhound so they can use Secutarii over Thallax as the compulsory troops?

Also, I though they would have Move Through Cover default.

>>51691829
I think it's also there to explain why they put Bjorn in a inferior boxnaught.

>>51691150
>>51691754
>>51691824

To be fair, the Space Wolves Legion stuff is pretty average and there are typos and half baked rules for non existent weapons all over the damn thing. Compared to the 40k version, Legion version is inexcusably tame. Its only really worth running if you run Leman Russ as well, imo.

And if you're about one man butcher army with everything else practically being his bodyguard and delivery system, we already have World Eaters and Angron for that.

>>51691771
Dreadnought dudes tend to go crazy in general it seems.

>>51691119
It's probably the picture but it does look more blak than blue. You might want to use some colour correction after taking your pic.
And use Bloof for the blood god on the helmet, with moderation. Not red.

>>51691212
Lion wears a winged helm in one of the stories, but in another just a simple silver circlet "by which the knights of Caliban were marked" or something in that manner. It's right in the prologue of the Prince of Crows.

>>51691856

Inferior in performance, but built Ford tough. They knew exactly what they were doing when they put him in there.

>>51691870
>our special bonuses are in the same league as our peers
>our Primarch is so OP he makes everything else mediocre by comparison

WHINY

LITTLE

>>51691754
As I recall:
>grey slayers don't go well with ICs (lose the running ability if they footslog, can't fit them in a rhino)
>grey slayers are difficult to use (rhino isn't an assault transport, footslogging is artillery bait)
(It doesn't seem to have occurred to them that everyone has those problems with tactical marines.)
>the roster is too restrictive and leads to monobuilds
>varagyr are shit
>varagyr need 2W
>varagyr should be able to take great frost axes on every model
>deathsworn are shit
>named special characters don't count as praetors for the compulsory HQ thing
>russ doesn't buff the army enough
Some of those are fair (the grey slayer troops leading to monobuilds, and the thing about redblade and fellhand counting as praetors) but a lot of it seems like inane whining.

>>51691870
>choosing your legions on what's the most powerful one

>>51691545
You got it wrong buddy, he didn't plan on getting rid of the psykers. On the contrary, he knew that Mankind was slowly becoming a psychic race, a la eldar. However he did wanted to protect it from Chaos with the Webway project, to avoid having it reliant on the warp and indirectly, Chaos.
How would he get rid of psyker when the whole race is slowly becoming psykers, ya dingus?

>>51691374
Somebody post that Ordo Sinister quote to this guy, I didn't save it.

>>51691924

>How would he get rid of psyker when the whole race is slowly becoming psykers, ya dingus?

Disconnect them from the Warp by moving the entire human race to the Webway. Short term would be Webway travel. Long term would be Webway cities.

>>51691856
It's funny how GW can't decide if the boxnought is any good or not. I mean, we're told that the neural interface makes it an extension of the operators body and enable them to fight like before, but then Bjorn complains about being limiting and it drives CSM dreads insane.

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>>51691907
> Russ doesn't buff the army enough
THATS THE FUCKING POINT

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>>51691874
It's not exactly the Dreadnought itself that makes this happen, except in the case of the Leviathan, because this one is so big that it duckq with the user.

It's rather the fact that the user is barely more than a chunk of flesh in a amniotic bath, former killing machine that can't feel anything anymore, and living in that condition for thousands of years with centuries long sleep at the time is not the best way to protect your mental health.

>>51691777
>death guard hate psykers, still allowed to use librarians
You what? Mortarion disbanded librarians.

>>51691953
Oh. Maybe. Mmm I should reread MoM since its the new fluff.

>>51691955
I think that CSM Dreadnaughts go insane because all their pals are assholes that treat them like shit for being a Dreadnaught. Meanwhile loyalist Dreadnaughts is cared for and respected. As a result hey get less desperate.

>>51691924
Oh crap, you're right. I missed something.

>>51691955
It's the right mix of badass and grimdark when it needs to be.

Badass in that you become a walking tank that can chew through enemies too tough for you in your former life, grimdark in that you are a husk of a corpse imprisoned in a casket for the rest of your life, which could be thousands of years, and with nothing more in life than being sensorily-deprived and sedated between the extended periods of intense combat, wearing yourself thin through that tough existence.

>>51691955
It's limiting in the sens that compared to feeling combat with your own limbs it's far from it.
Your performance might not be restricted, but your feelings of combat will be, beig entombed in a metal box and all.

And CSM...well they are CSM so no biggie if their machines make dudes go crazy.

>>51691999
They treat them like shit because the sensory deprivation is seen as a punishment and CSM are not put into dreads to venerate them, but to punish them.

>>51691990
It's really not.

>>51692043
I meant thats as the latest version of the fluff.

Helmet ideas for Lorgar?

I painted his face terribly, and desu phelmets look kinda cool on primarchs.

>>51691837
Yeah, the Secutarii didn't really change much, Peltasts lost a Strength point on the flechettes and a couple other minor changes.

They lack the MtC, but in a Reductor army they outright ignore terrain unless you play on a forest board, so it's not a big deal.

You want to bring a Titan, go nuts, they're shiny, but Thallax are decent and speedy scoring units, as well as hard as nails, so a couple minimum units of those are no real tax.
Personally I'm going to have a single 10-man Hoplite unit in an Arvus as my anti-tank drop squad, remember both Secutarii types are scoring troops as well.

Treat the Peltasts as an entire squad of Relentless Rotor Cannons, since they maths out almost exactly the same. Hammershot is slightly better vs. Marines, take it if you have some points spare.
Peltasts also mesh very well indeed with the Triaros, they fill it neatly to capacity. Two 20-Peltast units in Triaros, two minimum Thallax units kitted however and one or two min Hoplite suicide squads in Arvus Lighters seems like a superb Titan support force. Mix in some artillery, a wing of Vulturax and you've got an effective and sexy-looking army, even if no Titans are about.
I just wish they'd let stuff like Stormbirds and Ordinatii count for the Titan compulsory removal thing so you could have a Centurio Ordinatus or Baskilion Astra army, but no big deal, Thallax are sexy and have cool rules.

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>>51691611
>Dracos Flameborn, Firedrake of the Salamander legion, wielding a Dragonscale shield and Mantle of the Elder Drake. He forged those items himself, including his Terminator armour, using his mastercrafted Thunder hammer Forgedrake
Eh, I don't know anon.
At least I like the Sallies and heat and tough as fuck. Maybe the SWs like cold (YUCK) and vikings?
As long as they're not riding Thunderwolves and in company of Wulfen and Fenris Sorcerers fucks I guess we could be Fellow Warriors?

I respect Grey HUNTERS and Longfangs.

>>51691777
Techmarines & forgelords with rad grenades, and servitors & lightnings with rad missiles, are just fine to take in salamanders detachments however.

>>51691987
I assume anon meant rules-wise.

>>51691488
Salamanders and White Scars are fine home-slice, they don't go overboard like the Wolves do.

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>>51692067
Here's the /hhg/'s summary for you.

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>>51692088

>>51692088

I bet the Salamanders flame cult went on to do crazy shit like ride tamed Chaos firedrakes into battle and summon megasalamanders to bulldoze traitor lines, which would be why Salamanders don't want to talk about it.

How rage inducing would wolves in 40k colours be?
I like my minis to have bright and bold colours, and to me the 30k scheme looks horribly drab

>>51691515
I do this too, and it warms me a little to see someone else doing it, rather than Rakarth and a shit load of Agrax

>>51692126

I draw the line at any hint of yellow. Light blue can be explained away with atmospheric lighting or the glow of frost weapons.

>>51691907
>(lose the running ability if they footslog

Crap, I didn't even think about that! I can't even give them apothecaries! Now my units are useless!

>>51691907
>>varagyr need 2W
fuck you
>>51691907
>>russ doesn't buff the army enough
twice
But Varsgyr shold indeed be able to all wield ice axes. That one is fair, along with the named characters counting for the 10000pts requirement.

>>51692072
Id just say a plain mk3 helmet
They look big enough to fit a primarch head and itd fit his mk3 armour quite well
Scratch in some engravings if you like

>>51692088
When It's cold, one can layer more and more clothes. When it's hot, one runs out of clothes quite fast.

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If a man loves footslogging tacticals. Is he doomed in 30k? What legion? DG?

at 1500 points if you can only have one anti-armor option, which would you pick:

- Deredeo + missiles
- Vindicator w/ laser array

>>51692221
Or IW

>>51692244
Vindicator. Because I prefer the model.

>>51692244

Depends on the mission, really. But if you need to bust a Spartan or a superheavy, the answer is obvious.

>>51692221
I footslog everything at 2500 points minus 3 tanks

It doesn't stop me from having fun

>>51692272
would a single vindicator really do much to a spartan though?

Three shots at S8 due to the flare shield won't exactly dent a spartan

>>51692310
You say that but my ideal army is just a commander marching tacticals into a meat grinder. With some devastator support, and not a vehicle in sight.

>>51692341
Play DG and the Reaping RoW.

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>>51692072
Something like this.

>>51692244
Laser destroyer is good when you can have it sit still and clear lines of fire.

Derrito is has more shots while moving

>>51692327
They are ordinance so that is something.

>>51692341
DG, WE, IW, AL maybe (Infiltrate everything)

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>>51692073
>I just wish they'd let stuff like Stormbirds and Ordinatii count for the Titan compulsory removal thing so you could have a Centurio Ordinatus or Baskilion Astra army, but no big deal
I wish other anons could school as well as you do.
Omniissiah, did the Hoplites just dethroned Grav Secutors for anti-vehicle suicide drops? Scoring, cheaper, geared for melee, smaller, maybe squishier...
I gotta do the maths.

>>51692122
>I bet the Salamanders flame cult went on to do crazy shit like ride tamed Chaos firedrakes into battle and summon megasalamanders to bulldoze traitor lines, which would be why Salamanders don't want to talk about it.
You meme around, but that's not unlike what Dracos-reborn and The Prophet of Flame did aboard the Ebon Drake.
See where I'm going with this now?
:^) <- this smiley face is a dragon on fire too.

>>51692108
I'm proud of this pic series.

>>51692206
Uuuuugh always this very same argument.
I always respond with "I've never seen anyone shiver from cold".
Hands can't be really protected from the cold: either they get slowed and you can't draw, or you can't draw because you're wearing thick gloves.
Besides, heat doesn't cause pain like cold does...but I'm biased though, hailing from the coast. I pretty much never fucking sweat or get burned.

Also, removing your clothes is the worst you can do, silly. Bear with thermodynamics here.
Clothes prevent you from getting sun radiation, they're your shield.
Wear looser clothes in summer, if anything.
Shorts are for fags, I'm always wearing pants.

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>>51692366

>>51692221
Depends on meta and tools desired. Basically if you've got a decent meta, they can both work. Arty spammed you're fucked without any alpha strike

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>>51692366
lmao

>>51691611
>sanguinor
>sanguinary guard
>blood fists
>blood talons
>blood strike missiles

>>51692375
>"I've never seen anyone shiver from heat".
This is what I meant kek

>>51692375
I know I'll regret this, but which book should I read for this Ebon Drake silliness?

>Bear with thermodynamics here.
Oh shit guys, bears have got thermodynamics now. They've advanced to the industrial age.

>>51692406
Don't forget the Blood ammo and Blood magiks, as well as the blood-drinking rituals and nipples everywhere.

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>>51692109
I like this one better. The wolf looks less rubbish.

>>51692423

Whats wrong with nipples?

>>51692341
DG Creeping Death. If you stick Apothecaries in your blobs and support squads, you're looking at an always on 5+ cover save, FnP and your usual armour save. Also requires a mandatory Siegebreaker, so take advantage of Phospex mortars.

>>51692375
Why thank you, and the Hoplites have def. taken the top spot now, since if you really want something dead you can drop Decima and 10 Hoplites from an Arvus and unload 10 BS5 and 2d6 BS4 Haywire shots, which is a dead Fellblade right there. Expensive as hell, though, and you'd probably be better off adding two more hoplites, doing statistically 8.333 HP of damage to any vehicle, then finishing it off with some stray shooting, or an artillery strike.
Even the 10-man squad does 6.94 HP on anything, which is a dead or crippled Knight and an almost guaranteed Spartan kill. Also, if the Knight directs shield backwards it becomes a Predator, at slightly more than 3.5HP AV13, and then gets splattered by a volley from some Thallax or something.

Secutors are now entirely useless, sorry guys :(

Talking about this has made me want to get some Secutarii, maybe I'll have some to be literal Space Marines for ship-to-ship boarding for my Reductor force. May have to resort to recasts, since they're a tad pricy, honestly, what with having to buy a box of Skitarii for every 10 you want.

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>>51692426
>Faster, you dog!
>>51692419
I only know a bit from HH4, where Chaplain Caiphas Jurr goes to find out what happened on Istvaan V and unearths Cassian Dracos.
They end up going a bit crazier together, with Dracos' usual dread-craze being fueled with Dreadnought PTSD & a new ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL power, as well as CHAPLAIN Jurr unleashing his PSYCHIC powers more and more, thus creating the Devils in the Dark RoW, where Sallies are expected to use more Librarians.
Yes, his whole job is to enforce Nikea...and Jurr has a Flame Iron Halo (as in, the shield is actual fire) and has rules eerily similar to Lorgar, a chaplainesque psyker that boosts morale within line of sight.
Suspicious much?
To be honest, I blame FW, BL and GW for not being able to convey a theme without going FULL OBSESSION on it.
>Oh shit guys, bears have got thermodynamics now. They've advanced to the industrial age.
:^) Ur doomd

>>51692466
Have you ever been so stinky it visibly shows so much people have trouble shooting at you? :^)
Also, I like to think Durak Rask is a Siege Breaker with Master of the Legion, so he's a dual purpose character like the other DG are.

>>51692371
hm. how often do spartans even show up in 1.5k points?

if they might be an issue I'd consider a lightning, but that seems overkill if the opponent doesn't have a spartan

>>51692142
Why yellow exactly?

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>>51692514
I was going to initiate and recall my maths about it, but the effort reveals itself as completely futile when we realize a fully armed Hoplite costs less than a graviton gun, holy fucking kek.
To be fair, Secugravs can't actually miss nor be Intercepted. As in, literally no weapon in the game short of Interceptor-assisted Medusae can stop them from arriving and fucking people up with their T5 2" 3+/5++...but that'll cost you.

Hoplites, even with their Kyropractis and Haywire spears are just too fragile. You get what you pay for, after all.

But a mere loss of 0.694 of damage potential, AP2 in melee and survivability is more than made up for the cost, especially if we're talking about a suicide Troop unit.

Gee, the Mechanicum sure has anti-tank options don't they. Loaded the fuck up on them.

>>51691907
>grey slayers don't go well with ICs (lose the running ability if they footslog, can't fit them in a rhino)
While this is a pain in the ass, its not that big a deal in practice. You can stil rapid fire and charge with your characters attached, you just lose the run and charge ability. Ive played about 4 games with the new book and theres only been one situation where the FNP from the priests didnt outweigh the ability to run and charge.

Im seriously hoping FW put out an FAQ soon to correct some of the erronious interactions in the book. And clarify how compulsories work.

>>51691647
>adding anyone other than Geigor to grey hunters
Why not just play WEs?

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They have to start releasing heresy stuff soon, right?

There cant be THAT many knight heads, hobbit units and bloodbowl characters, can there? can there?

>>51692702
remember last year? we didn't get shit for a while after the weekender

>>51691907
>named special characters don't count as praetors for the compulsory HQ thing
This seems pretty reasonable, though I don't know what kind of opponent you're playing that wouldn't allow this.

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>>51692682
>>51692700
Just emailed guy who runs the lgs
Asked him if I could keep the running bonus with the priests attached
He said ok

>>51692759
Probably the same sort of people that wouldn't allow Rask to count as a siege breaker.

>>51692740
The BoP boxset makes it all worth it. Fuck resin.

>>51691907
>>51692759
Should've included " or model with the MotL special rule", thats also doesn't have support officer

>>51692818
Who cares what the owner of your LGS says? That doesnt change what the book says, and youll still have to tell your opponents your bending the rules.

>>51692679
Fragile as hell, yes, but they do have an extra 4 wounds on the Secutors, which means armies heavy on the ordnance will actually have to expend MORE effort killing them, when something like said Interceptor Medusa blast lands some of the Secutarii may survive, whereas the Secutors probably won't.

Mostly they're invaluable for a Turn 2 almost guaranteed Spartan kill, especially since even if the Arvus is killed there's a couple annoying Scoring bodies hanging around smacking your artillery with haywire sticks. Also when your 140pts unit of troops that are literally in a flying bus kills the delivery system of his Deathstar and invalidates 600 points on top of the 300 the Spartan was., then scores a backfield objective and forces the Primarch to turn around and waste an entire turn and some of the next dealing with them, the salt will be delicious.

This army looks more attractive by the minute, apart from the new Rad-missile tank. Would it have killed them to make it AP3?

I think that's what the Mechaniucm does best, honestly. Brings a bunch of very cost-effective units and makes each and every option for the Legion player a bad trade, because anything he uses offensively will be nuked next turn and he can't build up any momentum.

As a side note, 20 Hazard Protocol Peltasts kill 6.79 Marines with Flechettes, and 8.33 with Hammershot, so use Flechettes if the enemy has a cover save higher than 6+. Probably not worth the Hammershot buy-in unless there's a billion Rhinos running around and the Medusae, Thallax and Hoplites are overtaxed dealing with them, which is unlikely.

Anyone know what the rules are for a laser destroyer array are and where to find them?

>>51692913
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Deimos_Vindicator_Laser_Destroyer.pdf

>>51692931
Thanks

>>51692858
Maybe he plays on warhammer for 13 year-olds night and the lgs owner is club babysitter.

>>51692818
>mom said i can cheat to win so its ok

why does everyone hate the space wolves so mu-
>>51692818
oh ok

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>>51693082
Nah.
For me, 40k wolves are overmemed with wolf fuckery even beyond AL-levels, and for 30k I fucking hate the fucking forced """Emperor's Executioners""" thing, not to mention they are hypocrites that still fucking use psykers when they themselves were against librarians.

As I said, I like them more for their viking & hunter themes with the occasional wolf companion.

Why does everyone take Leviathan dreads? Are they worth it? They looks pretty fucking expensive and slow. Surely there must be something better to take for the same cost?

>>51693279
They're scary

Real scary, and tough, and drop-pod in the backline

>>51693279
It's tough as fuck and can be deepstriked in a drop pod, which you can't do with a Knight.
They're the distractor supremes, they can inflict and recieve a tonne of damage.

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>>51693279
They're cool. And if they do get into combat they'll tear whatever they're fighting apart

>>51693279
>Why does everyone take Leviathan dreads?
because they are like $20 from china

So is there anything on the plastic Tartaros Scarab Occult that is exclusively heretical and post-Tzeentch that I'd need to scrape off?

>>51693279
>Why does everyone take Leviathan dreads?
they look cool

>Are they worth it?
they can be
they can also just die without fanfare

So is it only the Internet that actually cares about SW doing bad things?

>>51693375
The occasional tzeentch icon and weird eye here and there. That's it, so not that hard to make them not that heretical and just ornate AF terminators.

Is there much point allying in mechanicum to Thousand Sons since they have those special Castellax?

>>51693442
Depends, if you want something other than what the legions have access to.

>>51693375
There are a few Tzeentch sigils on the armour (or modified scarab icons with Tzeentch sigil shaped bases and such). The Staff of the sergeant is also quite Tzeentch inspired.
But beyond that they're quite light on the Tzeentch iconography.

>>51693442
They can provide you with nothing more than atar pit.

Sorry, typo. Than a tarpit.

is armored breakthrough OP?

>>51693178
SW were at least somewhat interesting back when they were just space vikings with a werewolf curse they'd rather not talk about. Now they walk around joined at the waist with all kinds of wolves and wulfen.

>Only SW 'players' I know IRL don't actually play, but only bitch and moan about the rules, the other players, and the LGS. And hardly paint. And always want to use units and wargear from other armies, not allied in but as part of the army itself.

>>51693317
>>51693318
>>51693338
>>51693386
So without a drop pod ttheyre just shit? But knights move really fucking fast at 12 a turn for the same cost as a lev in pod.

>>51692887
>Probably not worth the Hammershot buy-in
But dat thirty inch range though...

Also, am i the only one who thinks Petrasts would be hilariously effective against Orks? They also seem kinda custom designed to wipe out Tryranid blobs.

>>51693375
I've done that same thing and it's pretty easy to build them without Tzeentch stuff on them.

>>51693514
It's the best way to make an armylists that always goes for the massacre, but its objective game is rather weak.

And it's the most dumb of all the ROW. There is basically zero difference in playstyle or options no matter what legion you field it as.

>>51692128
Well I use shitloads of agrax too..

>>51693566
There's a difference, yes.
That's why a Leviathan at turn one where you want it to be is inmediate panic for your enemy, while a Knight that moves 12" per turn is the tip of the spear for your army.
Their jobs only barely overlap.

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>>51692887
>Probably not worth the Hammershot buy-in
Must resist the urge to buy all the ammo ever.
Combi-weapons are the best thing in the world.

>>51693574
have you seen any youtube battle reports with it? Fucking crazy just bring tanks and shoot everything.

>>51693598
So dont bother with them if theyr footslogging?

>>51692221
Iron hands do a decent job of this due to their legion rule and this is made even better when combined with an apothecary as they can get feel no pain rolls even when hit by strength 8 weapons

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>>51691612
>Are Legion/Command (either Cataphracti or Tartaros) Terminators of any use in Death Guard armies
They're of little use for anyone, anon
>>51693646
That's my opinion, yes.

>>51693514
Only if you're not prepared for it and/or the enemy go all-out.

In real conflict, if an infantry or even lightly mechanised force get caught in the open by massed tanks, they're either at a disadvantage or pretty much fucked.
Generally the counter is to fortify this position or bring in more tanks of your own, but in 40k terms the strategic planning that would go into deciding which forces fight where is less responsive than it probably would be in a real life scenario, leading to more "cheese" or jack-of-all-trades to counter any possible combination.

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>>51693668
>the counter is to fortify this position

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>>51693686
Srsly, he looks a fucking lot like the Emperor here.

>>51693668
Well I know nothing about IRL war. But I was just kinda losing my shit at thinking how much AT you would need to kill it all. So much AT. I really want a see a battle report with this rite of war. Really claustrophobic terrain would also hamper it I guess.

>>51693646
they can do just fine footslogging but as mentioned earlier they can die with little to no fanfare but this has more to do with the fact that it is a vehicle and can die in one shot like anything else however they can fuck shit up in the shooting phase then follow that up by doing the same in assault.

>>51693614
True. Shiny, shiny meltadrops.
Still, I guess there's a lot of MEQs in 30k and the Omnispex means the Hammershot only becomes worse if the enemy is in 4+ cover, so buy it if you want, I guess.

>>51693569

That does seem to be their job. If they fix all the typos and possibly add the other "Mega-superheavies" into the list of stuff that allows compulsory Secutarii then I'd love it, and maybe they will in IA14 for the 40k stuff. Going to love the Peltasts against GSC, rain down the death.

>>51693707
DELETE THIS!

>>51693771
Seriously, 20 3 inch ignore line of sight blasts in a single volley....
>"Sarge, what do we do..?"
>"Um...Shot the Termagants"
>"Which Termagants?"
>"ALL OF THE TERMAGATS"

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>>51693715
>But I was just kinda losing my shit at thinking how much AT you would need to kill it all. So much AT.
I was just imagining a M3 tier human army, camo fatigues and all fighting a normal war...and then the fucking Secutarii roll in, red clad and shooting lighning out of fucking spears, going against all normal doctrine by walking out in the open wielding spears, but shrugging off bullets as if they were nothing, while they fry tanks and skewer people with them.

Can you imagine what would life be for a planet that suddenly became compliant? If suddenly an Imperial fleet arrived to our solar system, led to us by the Voyager probe.

>So you call yourselves Tierra, huh? Man, does that ring a bell...
>>51693771
Yass.
>>51693786
Ño.

So I'm planning out a Mechanicum army centered around my Warhound Titan. I'm already planning on at least 20 of each Secutarii and an Axiarch to go along with them.

My question is, how should I load out my Axiarch? And what else should I absolutely include if anything?

I'm pretty new to 30k so I'm sorta lost.

>>51693715
>But I was just kinda losing my shit at thinking how much AT you would need to kill it all.
I'm just left wondering how many non-flare shielded, non-AC 'ard things you could kill with the firepower it would take to bring down your average flare-shielded Spartan.

>>51693872
Depends on what you want to do with him. Mastercrafted power fist sounds nice, but it'd be even nicer for him to have any sort of invuln without having to forfeit the fist for a spear and shield.
He'll look cool though.
He doesn't seem the guy for a shooty squad, though.
>>51693892
>I'm just left wondering how many non-flare shielded, non-AC 'ard things you could kill with the firepower it would take to bring down your average flare-shielded Spartan.
Four to six 'ard things. The very same number if you're relying on Hoplites, Secugravs or Vultarax.
Haywire don't care :^)

>>51693848
Precisely, and dumping 20 S3 small blasts will do a decent chunk of damage to marines and termies, too. That vs. Marines will kill 2.222(Average number hit with blast) dudes, regardless of LoS or cover.

Alternatively, RIP Levy hordes, you cannot stand against the Secutarii. Don't personally ever fight any Levy hordes, but would be helpful if I did.

>>51693862

Red-clad? Surely colours of their Legio, so Legio Vulturum black and brass, for mine.

>>51693715

Honestly, with the level of firepower the Heresy puts out probably not too much, as the answer to >>51693892
is one vehicle or squadron thereof per Hoplite, Myrmidon or Vulturax squad per turn. Also all that artillery will do just as good a job messing up Predators as it will infantry, and you have less cover and invulnerable saves to hide behind.

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>>51694059
All the vultures!
I wish Arvus lighters were DTs for Secutarii.
They're more like drop pods than true aircraft.

>>51694140
Well, seeing as you have little need for HS slot #4 or Scoring tanks because all your infantry are scoring anyway, run AoD FoC, take 2 Thallax squads, 2 20-Peltast squads, 2 10 or 12 Hoplite squads, buy the Peltasts Triaros, the Hoplites Arvus Lighters and get a wing of two Vulturax.

Then add on a Destructor squad in a Macrocarid and a 3-Tonk arty squadron, a squad of Enginseers to fix them and put the mandatory Magos Reductor in there, maybe with a Machinator.

Then take a kitted Archimandrite to roll with the Myrmidons with a Grav Imploder and an Axiarch, who you could remove a Peltast for or buy him some bodyguards.
Then add Titan and done. Can't honestly see much that can't deal with.

>>51694211
Oh I had forgotten the Matrix of Ruin takes away one Fast attack choice.
I was thinking about Decima to bring his DT Macrocarid as a gunship, freeing a Heavy choice and quite possibly an elites too (Techpriest retinue).

Why would an Archimandrite want to roll with the Myrmidons, though?
BTW, if the Axiarch dies does the Binaric Stratagem dies with him? It doesn't look like it, but I want to be sure. He looks like he'd do nice as a Hoplite.

>>51691362
Are flamer squads viable?

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Using Tyranid 4th Ed codex minus psychic powers to represent Megarachnids

Y/N?

>>51694475
Ask whoever it is you'll be playing.

>>51694416
>Are 10 flamer templates a turn for 175 points viable?
Yes anon, yes they are. And they get better with chem munitons.

>>51694416
Depends, HH armies have to work together.
If you spam units in rhinos and stick a flamer squad in one, yes.
If you spam walls and take a promethium bong, yes.
If you footslog them against 12 phospex mortars, probably not.

>>51694347
Thing is, you want Decima for his scream of Spartan-killing, but you do that very very well already. But, seeing as he's 50pts over a normal Magos Reductor for all his FoC benefits and his Scream, even if he loses Relentless, go ahead if you need slots. Really, if there's a titan there you won't be running out of places to put points, but that's probably a good idea.

Archimandrite is rolling with the Destructors because it doesn't matter where he goes for his buffs, and he can tank for them and the extra grav imp guarantees the Primarch kills you want them for. He can also fix the Macrocarid from inside it.

If the Axiarch dies the Strategem keeps rolling, it's just a special rule on the units, not inherent to him at that point.

>>51693664
>>They're of little use for anyone, anon
Ok, thanks.

>>51694588
They still cool and fluffy though.
And 6" bubble of fearless ain't bad.
If they were characters they'd be worth it, I can see why they weren't in HH1 (because Angron could maul through a squad and level up 5 times) but that's not really a problem any more.

why the fuck did FW give ksons cheese ammo?

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>>51694475
Why would they lack Psychic powers? What allowed them to inflict so many Blood Angels casualties were those weather manipulation towers.
I say you bring as many Zooantropes as you want.
>>51694654
They were characters in HH1, just not anymore.
And that's what fucks things up.
Imagine a squad with WS5 4++ Scythes and combi-meltas. A better squad for Typhon than regular Deathshrouds, or at least a good enough contender.
Or Fist + dagger Hydras :^)
>>51694568
>Archimandrite is rolling with the Destructors because it doesn't matter where he goes for his buffs
Yeah thing is I'm not sure where to put his melee prowess to good use. He's powerful, but I'm not sure about Thallax, Jump Pack Ursarax will be slowed down, Hoplites aren't just choppy enough, neither are Scyllax nor does he have access to any sort of Assault vehicle, and he can't join Battle-automata.
Cortex Controllers should allow an IC to join Battle-automata units, including Warsmiths.

>The stratagem keeps on rolling.
Oh that's great to hear.

>>51694726
They're the smallest legion, tbey needed something to keep up. Heck what would you do if your legion was on 10,000- oh wait their normal now.

>>51694726
Because 3++ rerollable Custodes seemed strong, and FW wanted to make sure KSons were balanced.

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>>51694726
Because Power Creep and Buy our minies!™?
2W Sekhmets make me angry and I don't even have The Nails

MK II BEST ARMOR

>>51694347
Also, I just realised that if you want to use the Axiarch in a Hoplite unit, just buy him an Arc Pistol, since it's 10pts less, gives his shooting and melee +1S and an extra attack, and all it costs him is the Defensive Grenades, which are conferred to him by the Hoplites in his unit anyway.

Which strategem is the best, anyway?
MtC is superfluous, thanks to Walkers in Ruin.
+1 to vehicle damage is pretty useless thanks to the Peltasts not really being able to hurt vehicles outside of lucky Hammershot rends and the Hoplites just stripping HP anyway,

So 5+ FnP or PE (Infantry)?

Personally I'd probably take the PE, because that means the Peltasts will basically never miss, even if they don't normally mind the Wound reroll because Shred.
However, if there's a Titan in the army, then I would take the FnP because that's a 5+ rerollable, or 55% chance to save. They now have better than Power Armour against small arms, and the Kyropatris means they're tougher than Marines, essentially. Morale reroll not too helpful, because Titans all have "God-Machine" so Mechanicum within 24" are fearless anyway.

>>51694763

Personally I think he works best with the Destructors, because his melee isn't really anything too special for an Archmagos, and as the MDs all have power fists, so he can tank with his T5 4W 3++ face while they beat down the guy who decided he wanted to scrap with the shooty squad. He'd be T6, but he can't get the Machinator and the Graviton Imploder. Not that that matters much, because he's in a T5 squad and in an AV14 flare-shielded tank that's IWND and healed on a 3+.

If you want, make him T6 and buy some Photon weapons instead, trade a little offense for defense, probably a good idea now I think about it.

>>51694763
>Imagine a squad
Or Caedere Devourers. The horror!

>>51694830
Maybe back when it was the only non-thunder armour invented, but sorry to say that the upgraded MkIII is best.

>>51692375
I'll sweat when temperature gets 20 degrees of celsius or above. 15-20 celsius is my comfort zone. I'll put on a jacket when it's 5 or lower and still have t-shirt under it. My ex used berate for not having a jacket on"because everyone else does have". Sweating 24/7 in summer is hell. And I take showers regularly.

>>51694763
>Why would they lack Psychic powers? What allowed them to inflict so many Blood Angels casualties were those weather manipulation towers.
>I say you bring as many Zooantropes as you want.

Make a deal that you buy Zoantrophes, but you represent them with big trees and let them immobile.

>>51694830
Mk 2 and Mk 4 best armor.

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>>51694928
Idk none of those weapons are AP2.

>>51694917
As for FnP or PE(Infantry), I think it'd depend on how many Peltats you're bringing.
FnP's usefulness is reduced by their T3...but Kyropatris fields help them a bit, back to regular legion usefulness.
PE may be good for the majority of your army when they're not busy hunting vehicles and for the Peltasts' Hammershots. Even for their Shredding Flechettes, right?

>His melee isn't special
It's not, but it's still average for Archmagi class and that's already stronk. Such melee prowess would be wasted on a ranged squad...but the Archimandrite himself is a VIP I wouldn't want to risk in CC.
I'll give it a thought.

>>51694980
>15-20 celsius is my comfort zone.
Anon, I set my air conditioner to 23°C and call it "cool", and 15°C is fucking too much.
I do walk out in the early morning wearing t-shirts, but I find the cold uncomfortable.
And painful, if my fingers are wet.

Shaking 24/7 in winter is hell. I take showers only because I must remain clean, but never because I'm sweaty.

>>51695016
Quite a compromise.
Don't the Tyranids have some living forts with an Area of Effect? Those could be used.

>>51694475
You'll need to do some refactoring, old codex was written before a bunch of USRs changed and before AP differences in close combat was a thing.

I have it and the old 4th/5th BRBs, and I've toyed with having a go at writing an addendum for 7th, it's a damn sight better than the current book and definitely better for playing <insert xenos> than current one.

even the points won't need much tweaking, as strangely enough the points differences between old nids and new nids is about the same as 30k/40k

>>51695101
Yeah, on balance the FnP may be the better option, because that, along with the Kyropatris Shields, means large units have Marine-equivalent defenses except against Autocannons.
They're easier to AP, but the FnP is harder to remove than a 3+ armour save IMO, so that's about even.
PE: Infantry is a bit helpful for the Peltasts, but will probably help less than dying less to bolters and quad-mortars so you actually get to shoot.

The Destructors will have to be close in to use their guns, though, so they will probably be charged quick sharp once the opponent sees how powerful they can be (I.E. Loses his fancy Primarchstar to a volley of gravfire and the adjacent infantry squad to the Irrad Engines on the Macrocarid).

The Archmagos melee is a good deterrent and helps them break out of tarpitting tacticals and such, and the Myrmidons are good bodyguards against the likes of Terminators, since they aren't ID by Marine powerfists. Best of both worlds.

>>51691925
>>51691374


When I learned the Emperor raised the Custodes out of broken children, I supported it, for I knew it was necessary.

When I learned the Emperor culled his own Thunder Warriors in a traitorous move and buried their fate I accepted it, because they weren't meant to be the kind children of the new era.

When I learned the Emperor hid the Primordial Truth from everyone I agreed with Him, for He protected us from the universe with His Lie.

When I comprehended His Great Crusade was a tyrannical oppression to make the galaxy dance to His tune I gripped my heart, for I knew kindness wouldn't forge Mankind's abode in the stars.

When I discovered His power and His children came from a bargain with the Dark Gods I pitied Him, for I understood He had doomed Himself for us.

When I realized what could have been the fates of the Mechanicum and Navigators if His plan succeeded I steadied myself, for I understood progress cannot come without destruction of the previous order.

When I learned how He treated Angron and left him to his own devices to earn the Warrior's Death He owed him I could only weep at His mercy.

When I heard at what lengths He would go to acquire Disintegrator weapons I knew it was right, for that power should not be left loose upon the galaxy.

But when I learned His Left Hand of Darkness, the Ordo Sinister, is powered by the constant agony of the Cursed Ones, I could only be afraid of Him, and nothing more.

>>51695254
I'm honoured, but he proably meant the Humanity's dreams are the Darkest thing in all creation quote.

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>>51695254
>When I discovered His power and His children came from a bargain with the Dark Gods

I've got a question about the Space Wolves's rules. Their Space Wolves Army Selection entry says their Compulsory HQ choice has to be a centurion or praetor, but it also says they MUST take one HQ for every 1000pts. Would not these HQ choices be Compulsory?
RAW, it sounds like a 3000pt SW army can't take any consuls at all since it would have 3 Compulsory HQ choices, all of which must be praetors or centurions.

Am I reading that wrong?

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>>51695305
It's the new canon, anon :^)

>>51695320
There will come a time when I pass into oldfaggotry, and this will become an accepted part of the canon.

But I will still rage into the void, because it's the dumbest shit ever.

>>51695254

Who are the cursed ones and how do they power the sinister chaps?

>>51695307
You just need to fill another HQ slot, not take another Praetor or Cent, and you get extra non-comp HQ slots in bigger games so you can fill the 1 per 1k liimitation.

Only Praetor and Cents can fill dark grey HQ slots, but all this asks you to do is fill light grey, which can be filled by anything.
(Apart from the wolf-kin of Russ, which count as one HQ but don't take a slot, because they're odd. They also help with the HQ Point cap.)

>>51695398

A Psi-Titan works by chaining a bunch of Alpha-grade Psykers to the Titan and bleeding them dry to fuel the Titan's weapons and protect it from harm, tossing the bodies out the back once they've been used up. A Psi Titan has an untouchable because otherwise they would die from the sheer amount of screaming in the warp from all the tortured shackled Alpha psykers that are kept in permanent agony and used as living batteries for the Titan.

Are combi-weapons worth the price lads? Specifically combi-flamers on sergeants and apothecaries, even more specifically with DG chem-munitions.

>>51695320
have they fired that cuck yet?

>>51695398
The Cursed Ones aren't quite called so. They're simply Alpha-class psykers.
The Ordo Sinister collects them, and their constant agony (the Princeps is a Pariah, their presence painful to psykers) powers the Titans

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>>51691081
So, with the recent addition of Disciplinary Consuls to the lore, how neat of a idea would it be too have a small Night Lords army kept in line by these field officers. I can imagine that the 8th had a shit ton of these guys, hopefully, and that they would naturally keep together. I think I'm gonna start painting up some Sgt.s to look like these guys.


Also, I do have another question, although I suppose this is more of a opinion: If you play a loyalist faction of a traitor Legion, what do you think happens to your army at the end of the heresy? And if you play turn coats from loyalist legions, vice versa.

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>>51695254
If you want the screencapped version, here it is.

>>51695443

He works for Star Wars now, doing their Canon.

>>51695438
that makes me want to start night lords. curze was right, the emperor has gone too far

>>51695438
>>51695447

Sounds like its a mini golden throne setup.

>>51695469
that explains why star wars is so cucked now

>>51695440
Combi-meltas might be cool on HQ or Elite units that intend to get close to the enemy, like Apothecaries, Techmarines, or Centurions joining an Assault Squad. Same for Combi-Plas. Volkites are cool. Flamers are good if you know you'll be facing tarpits.

>>51692887
Radium carbines are pretty good for peltasts as well, with hazard protocols they kill 8.33 marines, and do more damage against automata than either flechettes or hammershot. Flechettes are better against thallax though.

>>51695475
When what you're fighting is all about butchering, tentacles everywhere, raping everything that moves and what doesn't as well, and diseases that make the black pox look tame, there's a lot of room before you go too far I'd say.

>>51695301
this

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>>51695464
>So, with the recent addition of Disciplinary Consuls to the lore
Yeah, we all call them "Chaplains", anon, and I love how they instill Fear even in the hearts of marines.
>If you play a loyalist faction of a traitor Legion, what do you think happens to your army at the end of the heresy?
Orphans of Betrayal were probably absorbed into the loyalist legions. Weren't Dantioch's guys absorbed into the Ultramarines? Even though they did die, their legacy continues.

And then you have those children of Dorn that turns out aren't Dorn's after all, and the Red Scorpions.

Traitors from loyal legions probably became warbans of their own.

I love that concept.

>>51695488
>Sounds like its a mini golden throne setup.
It is.
The Imperium learned about psyker-juice consumption and how to use them as fuel from the Throne mechanism. That's where the whole "math" behind imperial assumptions about the teleportation of the TS at Prospero come from.
They ran their numbers and found out the sacrifice of the life energies of everyone in the Pyramid of Photep would only be enough to transport a single individual away, rather than thousands of survivors.

>>51695506
Dude, he was just hired.
Starwars fucking sucks, though.
Expanded Universe a best.

>>51695254

What book is this from?

>>51695469
Good. Star Wars was never good outside the original three movies.

>>51695534
alpha psykers are the pinnacle of humanity and the emperor is just retardedly torturing them to death to power some titan since he feels threatened by them

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>>51695563
HH8: Angelus preview
I just made it up :^)

>>51695558
>Yeah, we all call them "Chaplains", anon

No, we call them Obsequiari.

>>51695579
No we call them Wardens :^)

>>51695571

You take that back. The Thrawn Trilogy was great.

Does this look like it could be fun as a starter force? Both tactics-wise, and how-much-would-I-hate-myself-putting-this-lot-together-wise. (I've heard...stories about the storm eagle kit.)

Night Lords, Angel's (ha!) Wrath, 2000 points.

Praetor (175)
>paragon claw, jump pack, iron halo, fear

Centurion (100)
>pair of lighting claws, jump pack, AA, refractor field, fear

15 assault marines (295)
>3 with power axes
>sergeant with AA, chainglaive & meltabombs

15 assault marines (295)
>3 with power axes
>sergeant with AA, chainglaive & meltabombs

10 veterans (230)
>snipers or weaponmasters (not sure)
>2 with plasma guns, 2 with power axes
>sergeant with AA & chainglaive
Dedicated transport: storm eagle (250)
>2x TL lascannon

3 apothecary (195)
>2 with jump pack
>1 with AA

2 land speeders (110)
>2 grav guns

2 land speeders (110)
>2 grav guns

Fire raptor (240)
>autocannon arrays & helstrike missiles

Veterans are there as an objective grabber for home half of the table, as currently everything else charges forwards. The land speeders are basically "flying grav rapiers" as I hear assaulty armies don't deal with armour very well with the current grenade rules.

>>51695558
>only be enough to transport a single individual away, rather than thousands of survivors.
What they did not know about is Magnus' pact with Tzeentch though. I imagine a Chaos God is more then able to provide the means (or the juice) to transport anything to anywhere withing the warp or a warp storm.

>>51695575
Yesterday psykers were the bane of everything and should be put down behind the shed, now they're called the pinnacle of humanity ?

HHG sure is fickle.

>>51695596
No, actually we call them Alpharius

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>>51695650
>Night Lords, Angel's (ha!) Wrath, 2000 points.
Kek.
Well they're His Angels of Death after all :^)
>>51695662
>What they did not know about is Magnus' pact with Tzeentch though.
Same.

>>51695529
Oh yes, I totally forgot they could take those. That is nice, though, since it makes them Skitarii Vanguard, and with PE:Infantry that's utterly brutal. May be the better and cheaper in £ option, honestly. I think that'll be the footsoldiers of my Reductor army when I eventually start it, they'll look good in Gore Crows colours. Bit fiddly to paint, though.

>>51695662
>Yesterday psykers were the bane of everything and should be put down behind the shed, now they're called the pinnacle of humanity ?
>HHG sure is fickle.
Basically, everything's alright so long as the Emprah does it.

You know, getting ten multi-flamers on Sekhmets would be worthy just for that look on opponent's face when he tries to charge them.

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I have an advice request.

I've had some Word Bearers stuff for over a year now, and I've been lacking any kind of motivation to put it together and play.

I've got about 40 tacticals, a Chaplain, a generic HQ that I intend to use as a Consul of some kind, a unit of 5 Gal Vorbak, a Contemptor Dread that I magnetized to have either an assault cannon or a multi-melta and a CCW, and a Drop Pod. The tacticals are primarily what's killing me. I hate assembling models in general, and doubly so for repetitive assembly.

My issue thus far is that, looking at other legions, I get really jealous. Word Bearers seem to be a close-combat oriented force, but they don't even do that well compared to other legions with better rules (for CC looking at blood angels, emperor's children, etc. and for rules in general I get real jealous of Alpha Legion), and their dark channeling rule seems like an overpriced trap option that MAYBE will give you a relevant rule.

My questions are:

What can I get to improve what I have? I like the Gal Vorbak and Contemptor Dreads, but the tacticals seem like shit city.

Are Word Bearers really as bad as they seem?

>>51695753
>What can I get to improve what I have?
A bunch of Ultramarines, since you have the models to act as corpses to base them. :^)

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>>51695712
>Basically, everything's alright so long as the Emprah does it.
Not the Sinistramanus, that's simply too much!

>>51694917
I don't think the axiarch is an IC, I'm not seeing it in their rules.

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>>51695784
>TFW the best thing about your legion is that you can bring another, better faction as battle-brother level allies.

>>51695712
Not really. What is so grim about the grimdark is that sometimes to make sure humanity survives, the only option is doing the wrong thing. That the alternative was extinction doesn't make them right, just necessary.

>>51695836
>I don't think the axiarch is an IC, I'm not seeing it in their rules.
OMNISSIAH FUCKING CHRIST, FORGEWORLD

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>>51695838

>>51695558
>Weren't Dantioch's guys absorbed into the Ultramarines?

No.

>>51695426
Ah, okay then. Thank you.

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>>51695865
>implying that Handsome Squidward isn't the best primarch.

Do you even praise?

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>>51695908
He's a literal cuck, anon.
Not even chaos gives a fuck about him.

>>51695836
>>51695853

No, he's not, which is a typo in all probability, because he has the Kyropatris (Lord/King Father shield? FW, fix your damn Latin/Greek hybrids), which only works in a unit with 5+ dudes in it. Also, he's not exactly 40k Magnus here, he will not survive nor be expected to solo.
I expect that to be errata'd soon, along with Arc Rifles being 18" range.

Also, the Overwatch on Peltasts is brutal. With Radium and Hazards (Which should probably be on at all times they're out of a transport) they kill 3.333 marines or 1.66 terminators, not even factoring the PE:Infantry they probably have.

>>51695558
>Weren't Dantioch's guys absorbed into the Ultramarines?

We don't know honestly. But it seems possible that they and the Ultramarines formed the Silver Skulls chapter (who have chimeric gene-seed, and their symbol is literally Dantioch's mask) or the Scythes of the Emperor (which is confirmed to be the 199th Company of UM stationed at Sotha, and could have incorporated the remaining Iron Warrior loyalists).

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>>51695925
I legitimately don't see the connection between your post and your image- can you explain?

Also, isn't it a thing that Chaos isn't SUPPOSED to give a fuck about anyone?

Just moved recently and the local gaming shop has a strong 30k player base so I'm thinking about switching over from 40k dangle to HH. I was looking throught their rite of wars and ironwing has an appeal to me, mostly because I'm a tread-head and have a soft spot for dreads, but also because I own the 40k models for most of the tank squadrons so I'll be running ironwing DA.

With the amount of models I currently have I can run a list ~1500 points, more so if I upgrade the piss out of them but then I'd be real light on board presence.

My question is how do you think ironwing protocol should be ran? Massed tanks with very little infantry or a core of marines with a detachment of tanks to back them up.

Onslaught Force organization chart would work real well with the amount of tanks I can bring to the table but a single unit of troops doesn't sit well with me at all. Age of Darkness is what I'm aiming for but I'd be sacrificing several tanks or dreads to field an additional troop choice.

What are some suggestions on building around this rite of war?

>>51695959
>Also, isn't it a thing that Chaos isn't SUPPOSED to give a fuck about anyone?
Which is another reason why, let's say, worshipping them is retarded in the extreme.

>>51695601
Make me!

>>51695959
Exactly this>>51696047
Lorgar gave it all to the faction that only cares about raping you, if at all.

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>>51695933
I hope it's a typo, I'm looking forward to using this guy.

>>51696130
He's worth the 65pts just for the buffs, honestly, unless you're playing Kill Points, the 3W B5 IWND 5++ Marine with Hoplite gear at +1S is just a bonus.

That is a damn nice model, mine was going to be a Skitarii Alpha with some Kataphron bits and some longer legs and such to bulk him up.

>>51696130
Am I the only one who is weirded out their HQ is basically a buffed Marine with a rule and some wounds?

>>51696175
He was originally my Vanguard Alpha for 40k (hence the fancy pistol), but I just ended up using the Skittles I built as proxy tech thralls. It'll feel good to be able to use them as the unit they're meant to be for once.

Why are so many of the chapters in 30k contradictory to their 40k counterparts? Space wolves for example were always meant to be the renegades who ignored imperial doctrine and the adeptus astartes yet in 30k they are written as totally subservient almost mindless tools of the Emperor.

>>51695464
that helmet is great

>>51696365
Not really. Space Wolves were always loyal to the Emperor and their Primarch first. They come across as renegade-like in 40k because they don't really acknowledge the current authorities. The Codex was written by a different Primarch and the High Lords are just corrupt old assholes. Why should they bother listening to either?
They are beholden only to Russ and the Allfather.

If the Emperor came back they'd be the first to sit on his lap and ask for a scooby-snack.

>>51696365
It's almost like things tend to change after 10,000 years.

>>51696407
I'm a bit more focused on that backpack and the holstered bolter.
Also, that bolt belt looks as if made out of regular bullets.

>>51696455
>If the Emperor came back they'd be the first to sit on his lap and ask for a scooby-snack.
I wonder how do the SW fans deal with all this banter?
I won't ask the TS, I assume they're busy trying to fit all the OP witchery in their lists like the scholars they are :^)

>>51696365
The events of the Heresy helped shape the later Chapters.
Imperial Fists are bitter about the Ultras taking over after the Fists did most of the work defending the Emperor, so now try to be better at using the Ultra's rulebook to show their own superiority.
The Iron Hands lost their Primarch after he raged and made bad tactical decisions, so they shifted to being even more cold and calculating that they were before.
The Blood Angels lost their Primarch AND got a terrible curse out of the deal. And without Sanguinius to help them get through it, they've had to scramble to survive. I see their adoption of the Codex as a similar system to the Eldar Paths. They dedicate themselves to a structured life to stay sane.
Scars, Salamanders, Raven Guard, and Wolves haven't really changed much at all.

>>51696498
I AM a SW fan.

>>51696546
Kek. I had forgotten about the Fenryka's sense of humour.

>>51696498
As a SW fan I totally agree with >>51696455

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>>51696546
>>51696581
Am I the only one who says "we" when talking about our legion?

>>51696615
Shoo shoo spooky Alpharius.

>>51696047
When you die you will fail to answer the riddle of steel and Crom will cast you from his mountain.

>>51696615
>Am I the only one that talks autistically about the autism Legion?

No, all other IW spergs probably do it.

>>51695994
>Onslaught Force organization chart
Take it, but leave the Ironwing Protocol home, Rites can't be used with alternative FOCs.
In fact leave DA home because you sound like WAACfag.

Was wondering if anybody had side by side picture of a custodes and a cataphractii terminator, trying to find a size comparison for them

>>51694059
>>51694211
>>51694140
Since you can take Petrasts with any admech list couldn't you just take up the compulsory troop slot with beepboops or cancer guns?

Also players should note that if you are playing against T3 troops like IG, Orks, Eldar, militia or cults large Secutarii squads are wasteful, half your ignis blasts are going to be wasted because the target is already wiped out.

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>>51696700
Phone posting so here we go, excuse the shitty painting

>>51696873
They're yuuuuuge

>>51696873
Why does that truescale marine have such weird shoulders & arms?

>>51696791
Radium Carbines are just a different weapon option for the Peltasts, so you can't fill compulsory troops with them, and you can't take them in Cybernetica so no Castellax. You can fill the comp slots with Thallax, though, which is the best idea IMO because it nets you Reductor bonuses.

Large squads are better because they lose the benefits from their shield when their unit numbers drop below 10 or 5, and large squads are not overkill against Marines, and Militia blobs have enough dudes to not be too badly overkilled. 20 Radium Carbine peltasts with PE Infantry work excellently as line troops, especially in Triaros tanks.

>>51697040
I'm phoneposting right now. Mind reminding me what their radium carbines do?

So I was reading the yiff section of inferno and Hvarl Red-Blade's bit in particular, the section about a "machine-warrior made to look like a long dead king."
It's a fucking necron. His axe is literally made of a necron. I don't care who you are, that's just cool.

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>>51696873
Thanks. If i'm not mistaken though, the base part of the custodes head looks like it would fit any marine body that can use a power armored helmet head.

Was thinking of using one of pic related heads for a possible Praetor

>>51697101
>Tfw you forge the dead into a weapon
Ferrus would be proud.

>>51697101
He also carries a fucking heavy bolter.
I'm so looking forward to seeing his model, and I don't even play yiffs.

>>51697085
18" Assault 3 S3 AP5 guns, but 6s to wound cause two wounds instead of one, regardless of toughness, so they can wound T10 as well as Lascannons do.
In a squad of 20 BS5 dudes they're crazy good, and overwatch at BS2 so that's 10 wounds on T4 on overwatch, so 3.33 dead Marines or 1.66 dead Terminators.

>>51697101
>>51697156
>>51697176
Were there any fluff page photos of Inferno?

>>51693442

In its own Detachments, Thousand Sons can get Praevians - which must take a Cult Arcana and can be given ML1. Also, he gives Legiones Astartes rules to his mech-bros
- Castellax or Vorax with 4++ vs shooting, anyone?
- Re-roll To Hit of 1 if stationary?
- One extra HoW per model?
- Adamantium Will?
(Pavoni seems to be very insignificant for them)

Sadly, he probably can't take the Castellax-Achea as his mech-bros, but it's worth sending FW an email about it.

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>>51697180
Sounds good. I was looking for the Peltasts combiweapons but stumbled upon this cringy deviant art thing.
It's funny to me.

>>51697233
Beep-boops already have all the benefits of athenaeum built in, and vorax don't have any form of invuln, so probably:
Corvidae for darkfire Castellax
Raptora for regular Castellax
Pyrae or Raptora for Vorax

>>51697264
Peltast combis are technically "Galvanic Casters". Rules for the everything is in a PDF further up the thread.

Could it be that sonene forgot bayonets exist when designing that :).

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>>51697380
>Rules for the everything is in a PDF further up the thread.
I'm aware, I just don't want to download a PDF when using phone data. Thank you very much.
Bayonets a best
>>51697322
Wait the bots are inducted in those witch cults?!
I take back everything I said, may the Emperor unleash His Hand of Darkness upon you.
I was a fool for ever doubting Him!

>>51697264
That pistol looks specifically designed for stabbing yourself by accident.

I guess it would be exellent at making retards who think that it looks cool remove their dna from the population :^)

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>>51697264
its silly, but I could see it actually being decent on night lords for the reasons described in the image, since they have that "80s-90s cartoon villain" vibe going on and don't give a fuck

>>51697449
Ah, fair enough. How you can get an entirely non-psychic robot to aim better with psychic powers I don't know, but I guess it's on par with the Death Guard granting them resistance to poison and the Raven Guard making a squad of Castellax sneaky.

>>51697459
>Ultramarines pistol
>retard design

kek

>>51697499
>Meanwhile, the IWs grant those Fearless bots immunity to morale tests caused by ranged casualties.
As cool as Narik looks, Praevians were a fucking mistake.
>And so, that Castellax was Alpharius all along.

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>>51697618
>>51697499
Can world eaters pass on their legion rules to mechanicum inductees?
>the magos's face when they hammer butcher's nails into his prize automata

>>51696365
10,000 years of history has changed galactic society, technology, religion.

Think of it tthis way, that long ago humanity had just started learning how to use agriculture. Things change.

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>>51697618
>>51697690
Remember omegon got out of ravendelve by posing as a boop (or something close to it) at the end of deliverance lost.

>>51697690
Holy kek.
Well, it's not like Castellax don't have Rage already...but Vorax already have the minds of wolves and mantises (with a touch of vole), and now you're giving them Rage, Hatred and rerollable charges. Insane.

Also, Battle Automata would gain FnP in the enemy's deployment zone.

Praevians are a mistake.
For your enemy.
He shouldn't have accepted fighting you!

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>>51697843
>Tfw some DA WAACfag WILL model his Battle Automata with sword hands, just so they can enjoy their miserable LA rule

>>51697950
Their rules are so terrible I'd let 'em

>>51697618
Yeah, although I'm mostly annoyed about Legions being able to take our toys and make them better when we can't use half their tanks and vehicles despite being the ones who build them. At least Magi Dominus can ruin those poor imitations of our robots with their minds, which is hilarious. Oh, you have Darkfire Castys? Well, now one is dead and I haven't even shot anything yet.

>>51697690

Don't think you get all of it, but if WE aren't specified on the list, yes, you do get all your LA rules. Yes, this does>>51697890
and basically gives them Rite of Fury at hakf strength and Scoria's Rite of the Beast on permanently, because Marines are special snowflakes and must have all the toys.

Ok, rant over. I'd be much happier if that stipulation about the LoW box not being things that have Heresy counterparts so I could take the Fellblade and such, just so there's some equal trade.

do mortariats suck balls now? they seem like they do after the nerf

>>51698005
. You're right, Magos. It is unfair. No wonder why so many heeded the Warmaster's call