Horus Heresy General - /hhg/

Inferno Scan when?

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Does a Thousand Sons Leviathan Dreadnought and Drestroyer squad seem a little weird to anyone besides me? They seem uncharacteristic for the legion.

>>51682933
TRUE SCALE MARINE WHEN ?
Literally the only thing stopping me from starting any imperium army.

>>51682933
>Made a squad of Breachers using the plastic MK III, tigrus bolters from B@C and boarding shield upgrade sets
... That's one unit I'm never gonna post picture of

>>51683033
Yeah TS should be about fielding mostly vanilla things and then have psychic power goodness.

But no doubt people are already working on armies that combine OP things like quad mortar spam and other things uncharacteristic for TS with psychic power cheese.

Were there Feudal planets during the heresy?

>>51683166
Good. If you're one of those people that always gets anal about the size of things there is no place for you in the Imperium

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>>51682933
Okay, we get it, you need to try and stir up faux divisions between people in an attempt to legitimize your poorfagging.

The truth is. Forgeworld are better. Full stop. They look better, they're better sculpts, the details are clearer, there is more variety at the standard troop level (ACTUALLY CONTAINING RUNNING LEGS).

MkII is great, MkIII is great, MkIV is great, MkV is great. MkVI is great.

Forgeworld does ALL marks of armor better than GW. Simple. Simple as that. The final product is better.

Now, if you have trouble with the fine motor skills involved in washing it, trimming it, filing minor sprays and assembling resin. They what you could say is "FOR ME, plastic is easier to work with." So, "I feel that plastic MkIII is easier for me" is not a incorrect statement. It is an opinion with a valid, debatable point.

STOP trying to generate a discussion where you can hide behind other people picking up your slack so you can all hide behind a 15-30% price difference.

You're the type of people who bring three mono-pose contemptors and three boxnaughts onto a table because "I think they look better". You're the type of person who buys a tactical squad from GW for their Deathguard because "Mk VII existed in the heresie guiez".

Don't fake your opinions. FW are better at EVERYTHING outside of pure baby simplicity and interchangeability of kit among different races. If you need to fabricate an argument to make yourself feel better about saving a few quid, then maybe you can't afford 30K in the first place.

Pic related is literally the difference I feel between playing against a awesome army, even with plastic kitbashing, and a cheepskate proxy army painted in legion colors.

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>>51683180
Yes. There were Knight worlds who are almost always Feudal Worlds. Caliban? Feudal world.

Is there decent advice for how to compose a Custodes list yet?

>>51683166
In 40k they're releasing enhanced Marines made by Guilliman, but they'll be useless for the HH because they're all wearing new Mk.IX armour.

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Found this guy at the bottom of some of my older stuff. Think he can be salvaged for my Death Guard as perhaps a siege breaker?

There's super glue caked on his lower torso. If I let him soak in nail polish remover for a while that ought to soften it up to scrub off, right?

So where are all the photos about the Thousand Sons lore? How can I have any pudding if I don't eat my meat?

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>>51682933
>Perturabo will never be a meme

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>>51683234
You can't just force it. Asmodai will travel back in time and rape you if you do that.

Question, is it possible in fluff to combine MKIII torso, shoulder pads, and backpack with MKII helm, arms, and legs?

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Asking here because new thread, best uses of a hellfire deredeo for Raven Guard? wanting to get one eventually for the looks (and because I like plasma)

>>51683268
Yes. Field repairs and limited supplies were a thing.

>>51683268
Sure.
Just says it's Mk.V

>>51683275
>best uses of a hellfire deredeo for Raven Guard?
Shoot the other guys

>>51683209
>Gaps and hols the size of grand canyons in parts
>Tanks that always need 2-3 packets of greenstuff to fill the gaps between pieces
>The occasional 3mm think moldline every 5 or so pieces
>Once in a while the resin absorbed the release agent and no matter what you do paint just falls off it

Oh yeah FW is sooo much better.

Bitch plz

>>51683209
>stupid rim around the head
>face plate looks like a cheap halloween mask
>skinny legs under some plate
>flared plates instead of abutted
>backpack riding high above the user's head

What people saw in these things to warrant all the jizz still boggles my mind.

>>51683209
>15-30% price difference
You are on drugs. Two 5 man resin kits cost what, £40-50? Without weapons either.

You can buy a sprue of the plastic marks for $30 easily.

>>51683268
Yes.
Kit resin often looks great and adds personalized payers to your army. Marines are facing almost a decade of war against enemies which, if not capable of killing and maiming them, can easily smash and destroy portions of armor. Contact with principle plate-manufactures (A limited number of Forge worlds and their Legion home planets) was often impossible. They interchanged sections of armor from all possible sources.

As often as you can, make shoulder-pads symmetrical (I.e, from the same mark). Use skinnier torso sections then legs, MkIII torsos only really look good on MkIII legs, but MkIV and everything else looks fine on all legs. MkIV helmets look sweet on all marks of armor bodies. MkIII backpacks look great on everything, so get as many as you can.

>>51683216
Source? I have seen this rumor several times and each time I read it it sounds more retarded.

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>>51683209
>liking chicken leg marines

>>51683331
If you're talking about plastic MkIV, sure, but then, who thinks GW MkIV looks good? It's tactical marines with different heads. MkIII sprews are more expensive.

So buy the armor from FW and the plastic phobos bolters of Ebay? Done.

>>51683351
>each time I read it it sounds more retarded.

Why?
Gman already improved Marines once.

>>51683421
The codex is not an improvement.

>>51683389
Not a bad idea tbhfam.

>>51683212
Thanks

>>51683216
>Mk.IX armour
MKVIII would have made it believable, unless its the MKV-VI fiasco all over again

>>51683440
Yes it was. He corrected the physical and mental defects in the marine creation process.

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Had a ZM overload yesterday, 2 tables, 5 dudes, all painted armies, mats and terrain, it was a blast!
also this is not what you want to see coming around a corner in ZM, fuck me ursarax chew marines up.

>>51683304
You have NEVER used significant amounts of Forgeworld. Three years ago, on some of the decade old casting cases, I might have agreed.

But if you think those things, you have NEVER used Forgeworld resources or customer service outside of a model you have brought from a friend, bootleg recasts or a single purchase a couple of years ago.

Did all of the Terran Iron Warriors die at Incaladion?

>>51683462
Pre-codex marines > post-codex marines.

>>51683275
Zone Mortalis

>>51683461
>MKVIII would have made it believable

Mk.VIII is for the Deathwatch.
Mk.IX is actually similar looking to the new Guilliman's armour, with the seam down the legs and a more articulated torso.

>>51683304
>He doesn't call FW customer service to fix faulty casts.
Ahahahahhahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahha stupid chink market users are hilarious.

>>51683485
Pics or gtfo

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>>51683451
Glad to be of help.

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So let's open this can of worms again.

Tell me about the Recon Company RoW. I'm playing Alpha Legion and want to step beyond babby's first PotL. Recon seems fluffy, but I'm not sure if I need to take 3 Recon Squads or just 1.

Also, aside from giving extra wounds to Exodus, what are Recon squads even useful for if I'm not guiding artillery?

>>51683475
>Pre codex Marines
>Shlubs that die by the thousand all the time

>Post codex Marines
>Operators operating

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How would you attempt a breakout in this situation?

Does anyone know what the new Orders of the 1kSons are?

>>51683469
Oh trust me, I have ordered from FW only recently, after B@C has been released. Have yet to recieve something where I do not have to send a mail because of trash quality parts or miscasts, the only exception being my Dynat model.

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>>51683465
Had some good luck with both deployment rolls and seizing the initiative during this match, my Death Guard pretty much just bum rushed the defenders quarter and smashed through the defenses.
Matches were all 1250pts, book 3 ZM scenarios using the Combatant force orgs.

>>51683495
I never took pics.
If you don't believe that's fine, but you'll see eventually.

>>51683502
>but I'm not sure if I need to take 3 Recon Squads or just 1.
Tactical Squads are not compulsory, Assault Marines are not compulsory, Breachers are no compulsory.

Taking two troops without the support squad is compulsory.

Recon RoW names the Recons themselves as compulsory, thus you must take Recons.

>Also, aside from giving extra wounds to Exodus, what are Recon squads even useful for if I'm not guiding artillery?
Used to be good AT until the MB nerf. Not much now.

>>51683490
That they send you crap parts when you ordered. is just a fucking disgrace, specially with the prices they are asking. That they are kind enough to keep on sending you replacement parts (for which you gotta wait yet more time) does not excuse the fact they send you that warped abortion of a part in the first place.

>>51683519
Do you have any idea how busy they were around that period? The GW HH imitation cheese food product Mk 4 *tm* release meant a million people were ordering little things from them. They do not have vast wearhouses standing on stock like GW.

If you didn't take pictures, and have them send you replacements, then you're a dumb dumb and it's your own fault.

>>51683216
Kek

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>>51683502
>wait until the sentry looks at pic of his family
That's very specific.

Speaking of resin marine autism: how the fuck am I supposed to cut that little nib out from underneath the torsos? Is there a good trick to shave a round cavity with a straight blade?

So, I'm curious, be patient with me here bros.
I wanna roll a 30k army. I'm patiently waiting for Inferno to come out. I ALSO have my 7e 40k rulebook. Do I also need the Age of Darkness and Crusade books too?
Also, anyone experienced playing their 30k army with a 40k army? Tweeking of certain items?

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I'm practicing using Tamiya clear red for the Thousand Sons. This stuff is weird, I can't tell when it's dried and if it isn't dry it just peels off underneath my brush.

>>51683567
>complains about getting double the product for his money.
>can't manage to bend or fix resin
>Literally Zero modelling skill
lmao

>>51683513
Jackal, Ruin, Blind

>>51683567
Dude can you not boil a kettle?

Warped resin is the easiest thing to fix in the world.

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>>51683465
>>51683533
2nd match up against Alpha Legion was even until I kill his dread, ambushed and surrounded a vet and tactical squad of his with some lucky outflank rolls and then my HQ and Deathshroud chewed up his HQ and termies.

>>51683581

You need the Age of Darkness book for standard army rules and the corresponding book which has your Legion's rules. Crusade books are outdated.

>>51683502
If you go Recon Company just take 3 min. size Recon Squads with no upgrades. It's pretty funny how they can infiltrate, scout foward and rapid fire pretty much any unit in the enemy deployment zone, but there is no reason for them to cost the same amount of points as Veteran Tacticals.

>>51683586
Wait an hour, dont glob it on either. Thin coats thinned with 91% iso

>>51683576

Never doubt the methods of the Legion of Ghosts.

>>51683605
So basically, Age of Darkness, 40k 7e, and Inferno essentially? When WOULD I need to use the Crusade book?

>>51683510
run back through the Mastodon but you're already dead.
How the hell do you blow up a Mastodon?

>>51683538

But then why specifically say that my third choice must be Recons?

If it worked like you say, that line has no meaning.

>>51683615
I need results though.

>>51683626

Never?

>>51683581
This is not the hobby for you.

You need the Crusade army books. You don't need the big black books. You need both red books.

You do NOT use 40k armies in 30k. Start from the ground up. I don't care if you already collect ultramarines.

Sorry, but if you want to role for a army, if you don't find an infatuation with a certain legion enough to let it be a dice role which one you want, and you don't care about the aesthetic....

This is NOT the game for you. Stick to 40k.

>>51683510
I saw that batrep. gorgeous IH, but that WE players list was pretty crunchy by comparison. I mean the guy took a mastadon, the madman. Should have had an extra 350 points for having the balls to do that.

>>51683594
And what do they do?

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>>51683592
It's not double the product if the first half can't be used.

>>51683595
I'm talking about details submerged beneath a cancerous growth of resin warped, not a fucking bend gunbarrel or anything as simple as that.

>tfw FW resin apolegists assume everybody complaining has no idea what they're talking about

>>51683644

Who crawled up your asshole this morning?

>>51683658

It was pretty fucked from the get go when I saw that WE Leviathan and the DDP.

>>51683644
I don't think you understood what I meant.
I want to roll Thousand Sons. Not roll like, I'm rolling dice here to hopefully get it. Like, it's what I'm rolling. You know what I mean?

>>51683660
lmao

>>51683659
Ruin is the psybots, basically psychic ordo reductor

Jackal is spread throughout the 9 fellowships no idea what they do. Probably some elite combat element or advisors.

Blind is the not!alphalegion sneaky time space drifting ghost mages. Led by Amon, captain of the 9th fellowship.

>>51683660
>GW bootlickers assuming they were not a one in 100 miscast and too social awkward to call up customer services explaining their situation and wanting a replacement.

If it takes 3 or 4 days or get the part, why not spend that time doing all the super duper tricky bits like cleaning the parts which are fine?

>>51683033
With Amon and Hidden ones, Destroyer Squad doesn't seem that bad.

Also I can see TS poisoning their enemies because they didn't want to blow up their libraries or something.

Leviathan dreads are bit odd since they are monumental projects in cost which were developed in Terra. Considering how little communication seemed to happen on the dinner table between Magnus and Emps, Leviathan seem like an unshared secret... among other things.

>>51683421
The codex astartes was just an organizational restructuring. "Enhanced Marines" implies that they are physically distinct from normal space marines in regards to genetic engineering.

That sounds dumb. We don't need another class of super soldier. We already have Custodes, Thunder Warriors, Space Marines, and Primarchs.

>>51683033

So is an Achilles Land Raider but fuck you I love Achilles Land Raiders.

>>51683685
You can play the Thousand Sons with HH7: Inferno, the 7E Rulebook and the Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness books (which is in pdf format in the OP)...but the main HH books, especially HH1: Betrayal are sooooooooooooooooooooooo good. At least worth a read.

For Mechanicum and mortal allies, go to the Taghmata and Crusade Imperialis books.

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Why the fuck do I have to take a dumbass Spartan if I want Terminator bodyguards for anyone important. I don't want a gay ass 300 vanilla as fuck point sink just to stroller my Primarch around

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>>51683635

>FAMILY
>NECK
>STAB

It's not a hard concept.

>b-but Mr. Alpharius sir, what if he doesn't have a family?

What kind of self respecting operative does not pre-select his target 30 years in advance, undergo a sex change operation, seduce his target and grow him a family, so that he may be properly neck-stabbed at the correct place and time?

>>51683722
>"Enhanced Marines"
Alpharius confirmed for taking Gmans place and using the genetech he stole from Deliverance to make a new generation of not!raptors, and probably other alphariusii.

>>51683749
>What kind of self respecting operative does not pre-select his target 30 years in advance, undergo a sex change operation, seduce his target and grow him a family, so that he may be properly neck-stabbed at the correct place and time?
GAY!

>>51683748
then you can walk.

>>51683748

>Why the fuck do I have to take a dumbass Spartan if I want Terminator bodyguards

You don't. Land Raiders are usable unless you're trying to send in 11-13 termies into the enemy's face, at which point deep striking is a serviceable alternative.

>>51683722
>The codex astartes was just an organizational restructuring.

It also improved the Marines physically and mentally by improving the Marine creation process.

>"Enhanced Marines" implies that they are physically distinct from normal space marines in regards to genetic engineering.

The new ones are. Guilliman unlocks the potential in the gene-seed, similar to Mephiston.

>That sounds dumb. We don't need another class of super soldier.

They're not needed, but GW certainly wants them because it's a good excuse to put out some more Stormcast/Custode sized minis that every Marine player will end up buying.

Tere's also already precedence for such things in the fluff like the Cursed Founding and Corax creating the Raptors in Deliverance Lost.

Any other guardsmen have issues against daemons? What do about the ruthless assault phase?

>>51683780

>Gay

Effective.

>>51683748
The Kharybdis, another Heavy support 20 transport in fact recieved a points discount.

>>51683743
That's what I was originally looking for. Christ, people have such attitudes. I snagged the first three books and was torn between the Death Guard and Thousand Sons. But I like the tragedy behind the TS. So, I might be rolling as them. Plus, I like the idea of playing loyalist Thousand Sons. Bros that cannot return to the Imperium and basically serve mankind with whatever they can. Like Batman I suppose.

Think I should grab the Age of Darkness Legiones Astartes book or wait until there's an edition with the Thousand Sons?

>>51683796
Since when can 5 termies and a VIP fit in a 30k Land Raider? Who the fuck other than Imperial Fists termies deep strike?

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>>51683478
I hadn't considered that, but with the redusced scatter and increased prevalence of terminators that is nasty.

on other notes, have this terminator squad I just finished doing poses/magnets on. still doing cleanup work so please no bully over mouldlines.

>>51683909

>Since when can 5 termies and a VIP fit in a 30k Land Raider?

Never, but a command squad can be 3-5 dudes - unless you're using your Legion snowflake termies instead, then no they can't be your bodyguards.

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>>51683817
>Guilliman unlocks the potential in the gene-seed
UMs have now the potential to be further normies than they already were.
Wooooooooo!
Won't deny marine quality went up after the heresy, but that's simplye because they weren't mass producing it as before so the gene dfects weren't as apparent, and they still lost access to primarch geneseed to sustain high-rate recruitment in the first place.
Marines also were further trained to prevent treachery and such.

Metaphorical:
It's like claiming Ferrari quality went up after they switched to making cars one by one, without adding the main reason you did that was because the factory fucking burned down.

>>51683856
>I snagged the first three books and was torn between the Death Guard and Thousand Sons
Wow, they're pretty much polar opposites, anon. That's nice.
>Think I should grab the Age of Darkness Legiones Astartes book or wait until there's an edition with the Thousand Sons?
Wait for now, but grab the pdf anyway.
It's still incomplete, several additional characters were added in HH6, as well as DA/WS/BA rurus.

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>>51683928
And an example loadout from the bits displayed. Only thing not in the image is the banner I still have left to magnetize for use as a CS

also have some recon bolters I've been tinkering with, posting them shortly

>>51683940
Except the snowflake terminator units that start at numbers lower than 5 ofcourse.

>>51683630

Bump for the valid point.

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>>51683953
>>51683928
Not glued in place quite yet, barrels were lathe-turned out of some excess rod stock.

>>51683957

I'm unfamiliar with special snowflake termy squads which don't number 5 or more. Red Butchers?

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>>51683965
Example of one in place on a mark 4 marine, no magnet in the wrist so it's just resting in place, so the wrist joint is off.

>>51683947
>UMs
>Normies

Ultramarines are trve alpha chads.

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>>51683973
>>51683965
That's pretty sick

>>51683960

The only way everything written does something for the Recon Company is that if Recon Squads become able to be used in compulsory slots, and in a addition you must take a Recon Squads as a third compulsory troop choice.

>>51683968
DG Deathshroud start at 2. I thought at least Justaerin also started with fewer than 5, but that has changed with the Age of Darkness update it seems.

>>51683033
The problem I have with Thousand Sons Leviathan and Deredeo dreadnoughts is they don't have the crest their contemptor does.
Which is why I'm going to free-hand it onto the Leviathan I'm going to eventually get for them.

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>>51683990
>>51683965
Look down the barrel of one, never not drill your barrels!

the bolter bodies with scopes were off the sternguard sprue.

if people want to make thier own, overall length 14mm, hole in bolter body 2mm deep, front 'supressor' 2.5mm dia and 6mm length. barrel shaft 2mm dia. barrel hole 1.5mm dia and 3mm deep.

>>51683024
Keep the heavy bolter, as flamer is only good if you're bring charged. For RG, missiles are best as you don't have a heavy support terminator unit to buff to 3++

Anyone got any proof whatsoever for these alleged new marines Girlyman is making and their MKix armor?

>>51684097
Maybe you can trick GW into revealing them like with Magnus and Guilliman.

>>51683987
Anon, the UMs are the normiest of them all. Don't misunderstand me, there's nothing wrong with being vanilla, but even the Imperial fists have Siege, Boarding, Fleet, Crusader, Champion, Shield and Fist flavours.

UMs only have post-Marian romans with Gladius and Scutum, and even romans themselves were the fucking siege-masters of their age, but UMs are merely ok at it.

>>51684097
I just read about it in the 40k general and here, so it should show up on BOLS any time now

>>51684122

>buy a bunch of Skyhammer boxes
>Guilliman about to release Mark IX marines

suffering

>>51684119

UMs have Rhino tactics for bolter haxxspam and sneaky Ogryn operatives.

>>51684129
You really want to wait for the MK XXX marines anyway :^)

So, is there a way to browse entire FW catalog?

I'm noticing that certain things are not popping up unless I specifically search for them.

>>51684163

>Kingdom Death marines

muh dick

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>tfw seriously considering making a count-as Megarachnid force with forest goblin spiders and tyranid rules

>>51684142
You do realize the Fists' bolters kill better than the UMs (0.138 vs 0.129) without needing a gangbang and Rhinos aren't assault vehicles, or restricted to the UMs, right?

Sneaky Ogryn Opertii are nice.

>>51684251

Fists can't do that and have ripoff termies or ripoff phalanx squads, though.

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>>51684267
Anon, the only good thing about the UM are their stolen Phalax Wardens and Tyrants; nobody gives too many fucks about Locutarii.
Remove Calth.

After reading Fall of Cadia, it struck me how GW is really emphasizing the "super zealous platonic beat friends" relationship between the SoB and Black Templars.

I think it would be cool if they merged the BT and SoB into a "Crusaders of The Imperium" codex in 8th edition. It would provide the SoB with the codex update (and of course models) that they've wanted for years, and also return a sense of distinctiveness to the Black Templars that has been missing since we lost our codex.

Are any of the Custodes psykers?

>>51684451
>>51684451
Shit, thought I was in the 40k general. Sorry guys

>>51684479
No. They are speshul snowflake enough already.
Maybe NuMarines will downgrade their speshulness enough though.

>>51684479

No. I'd imagine the Emperor would have no use for psykers in the Custodes, and SoS would be constantly rustled by one.

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Blackshields here

Shading followed by dry brushing!

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>>51684599

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>>51684599
Woops!

>>51684626
I'm not sure where you're going with this scheme, so I shall reserve judgement until at least one dud is done.
Nevertheless, nice progress!

>>51684599

Aussie?

So question about Blackshields fluff wise.

How the fuck did they maintain themselves during the Heresy?

There's no way they had the man power to control multiple systems and keep a stable enough rule. They would've faced attacks from both traitors and loyalists.

What happened to them after the heresy anyway? There's no way either side would've accepted them.

>>51684718
They were pirates, they raided outposts. They didn't need to control anything, just know where goods with the fewest defenders was.

The Ashen Claws killed both UMs and NLs while taking their shit. Then they started their own second great crusade in the ghoul stars. They've been there ever since.

>>51684768
How did they recruit then?

>>51683691
Jackal is elite combat, specifically for guarding the cult temples and the fancy stuff inside.

>>51684807
The same way the Imperial Navy gets "indentured servants".
They probably stole families or demanded tithe for "not murdering you" purposes.

>>51684718

The same way warlords have survived throughout history in big conflicts: strike weak targets, grab what you can, and try not to piss off bigger fish.

Of course, not all Blackshields maintained permanent territory in the first place. Those who did tended to have them in areas which are very difficult to get to or navigate (eg. the Dark Brotherhood).

>>51684807

With the help of any apothecaries they had on hand. Not all of them would have had the resources or time to do so. Worst comes to worst, you can just recruit other disenfranchised Astartes who've also gone rouge and need a posse to roll with.

Considering the Ashen Claws are stated to be launching and maintaining a Great Crusade of their own into the Halo Stars centuries after the end of the Heresy, smaller Astartes warbands can clearly attain some level of self-sufficiency.

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Would you play against Megarachnids converted from spider models and using tyranid rules?

>>51684807
Stole geneseed, used Predation Fleet tactics of abducting people and enslaving them, then psycho indoctrinating them. The Carcharodons still do it today.

>>51684906
Sure, why not. Fighting aliens is fun, even if it feels like kicking people when they're down.

>>51683691
>Probably some elite combat element
>>51684821
>Jackal is elite combat
#calledit

That explains the transfers. Where did you see this?

Or just in general, anyone got pics of the TS fluff?

Anyone figure out how to model a Custodian Guard with a Vexilla and Sentinel Blade yet? Can't believe they made that the option instead of Vexilla and Praesidium Shield.

>>51684906

I want rules for the Rangda. A xenos race so powerful they're described as worse than the Tyranids and Necrons combined.

>>51684906
Fuck yeas I would, in a twinheartbeat. Heck I'd play against normal nid models.

>>51684938

Put the vexilla on the shield.

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>>51684928
It's from the fluff banner on the Khenetai page.

>>51684947
Thanks but that frankly sounds and looks retarded.

>>51684938
youre going to have to cut up a spear as a replacement handle

>>51684960

How dangerous can these guys be made as? What Discipline or powers would really make them eat enemies for breakfast?

>>51684938
Put the vexilla on his backpack?

>>51685018

Anything? Invuln and HoW powers would help. Invisibility would definitely help. Nevermind the other crazier buffs that could be generated.

>>51685018
Pavoni and biomancy.
+1 to sweep is good juju for a dedicated combat unit, and biomancy has a chance to make them one of the most dangerous units in the game with either Iron Arm or Warp Speed. Endurance is also pretty good at keeping guys alive so you can get the bonuses.
They're a very hit or miss unit, they either roll well and murderise everything in front of them, or they roll poorly and trade with a unit that costs half of what they did.

>>51685018
Biomancy, 100%.

Being a brotherhood of psykers makes Iron Arm and Warp Speed unit-wide. If you get Iron Arm they are going to curbstomp anything in their path.

speaking of psykers, it says the sekhmet terminators can "choose its powers from Telekinesis or Pyromancy", does that mean rolling on the tables or just choosing two for yourself?

>>51685217

We are still divided on that one.

>>51685226
goddammit forgeworld

>>51685018
With Iron Arm they could probably take down primarchs

>>51685217
It says "may choose powers from". It's not a requirement. Otherwise you follow basic psyker rules and generate from whats available. It's pretty basic.

>>51685217

Why would the Sekhmet be confined to only those two? They were drawn from all five cults. They certainly were not confined to only the Pyrae or Raptora.

>>51685217
>>51685226
>>51685360
>>51685404

Can roll normally for powers, but has special rule which allows it to take powers from those two disciplines.

...Thinking of using Black Shield Chymirae rules, Sigmarines, Warhammer Empire bitz, and weapons and other gear from Prospero set to make Thunder Warriors.

Yay or nay?

>>51685481
Debatable. Thunder Warriors basically all got genocided and only a few separate individuals were left alive.

And any geneseed projects would have been undertaken with that of the Astartes, as their DNA is more advanced and stable.

>no etched brass decals for the Alpha Legion
What did Forge World mean by this?

>>51685529
Could have the army 'take place' when the Emperor ordered their deaths.

...Honestly only really considering this as I was gifted a ton of Sigmarine stuff by relatives who thought they were buying space marine stuff for me for Christmas. The irony isn't lost on me on their confusion.

>>51685589
Doesn't have to be Thunder Warriors. Could be any desperate scenario where someone said "we need more, bigger marines NOW" and made some big guys.

>>51685611
I know they don't have to be but I figured it would make a fun conversion project, too. Trying to make the best lemonade out of lemons, here.

>>51685611

How big?

>>51685217
You choose the powers you want. It's specifically different from the other entries with Brotherhood of psykers for a reason guys.

>>51685666
Big enough for you.

>>51685584
>actually painting and modelling your alpha legion as alpha legion

>>51685529
When did that happen, by the way.

I've toyed with the idea of a Crusade era Army of Terran regiments backed by Custodes and Thunder Warriors (using Ogryn rules).

>>51683626
The first "edition" of Legiones Astartes red (army list) books had "Crusade" in the name. They were replaced with books with "Age of Darkness" in their titles. Hard to say what the next ones will be called.

The Imperial Army/Militia/Cults book still has "Crusade" in its name; it's only been through one edition. The Mechanicum book doesn't have any of those words in its title.

>>51685721
Think it was before Agron since War Hounds were what took them out if I recall.

>>51683470

29,000 IV Legion legionaries and 2,000,000 attached Imperial Army soldiers died during the Liberation of Incaladion.

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>>51685721
RIght before the beginning of the Great Crusade, even before the Emperor had Unified Terra or allied with Mars.

In "The Last Church" we see the change, as Uriah witnessed the Thunder Warriors in his youth, but is evicted by Dark Angels wearing powered armour in the end.

And as HH1 confirms, the Legiones Astartes wore Thunder Armour at their very beginning, meaning even before Terra was Unified the Thunder Warriors were no more.

Further proof is the Tempest Galleries being fought by Salamanders instead of TW.

>>51685768
That says little. Angron was one of the last primarchs to be found, as narrated by Kharn in "After De'Shea". Kharn was envious of other legions because they had already foung their primarchs.

Dammit why do I sound like such an autistic lore savant? I have only read one short story and three HH black books!

>>51684314

>tfw no big team battle featuring the IVth, the XIIth, and the XIVth legions

High energy.

>>51685860

Read all the HH books now. They're basically the only lore worth reading these days.

>>51685860

As an actual lore savant with a collection of BL books worth more than a full-armed Warlord Titan, I understand completely.

>>51685899

>collecting BL books

>>51685860
I don't remember The Last Church making references to the identity of the warriors with the Emperor.

>>51685860

How come the Thunder Warriors jobbed the Tempest Galleries?

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>>51685908

Yes anon. Over $2000 worth of.

>>51685929

Tempest Galleries was basically a Mechanicum base. And we all know how the Alpha Legion fucked up their own surprise terminator assault in one of those hellholes.

>>51685965
for what purpose

>>51685965
>mfw I've gotten audiobook torrents and scans of all of it

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>>51685886
>>tfw no big team battle featuring the IVth, the XIIth, and the XIVth legions
Stop making me feel bad, anon!
I NEED MEATGRINDER MANIA!!!
>>51685887
Eh, short stories are damn swell too.
You see, ADB has no time to screw up in such a short amount of text, so a limited shilling for chaosmarchs is tolerable, a nice change for all that loyalwank.

>>51685899
Dubs bless thee.

>>51685927
It's never explicit, but I'm inferring it.
You see, Uriah notices how the overall look of the Emperor's giant warriors has changed, which we can assume is the change from Thunder armour to Power armour, which the Thunder Warriors themselves didn't live to see, since they were (((slain))) in the battle of (mount) Arreat.

>>51685929
No, I don't think they were jobbed. They simply didn't exist by then. Can't fail missions you aren't assigned to.

All in all, they wouldn't have fared well either, they were more ill equipped to fight the cyber mounstrosities down there than the Sallies were.

>>51685978
More DAoT geothermic generator^1111111.
Also, tell me more about that AL battle.

The only one I remember of them against the Mechanicum was Paramar and proxies, which they silenced so they couldn't report the Warmaster's fleet aproaching to Terra.

>>51685995

Not him but I'm totally into building book collections. Except I recognize the sheer uselessness of compiling books compared to the power of digital reading, so I've given up on dropping hundreds into books a long time ago (unless they're codeices, supplements, or HH books because this is my shitty hobby).

>>51685965
>being that dedicated to fan fiction
wew lad

Can't say much though. I collect, build, and paint tiny men.

>>51686019

>The only one I remember of them against the Mechanicum was Paramar and proxies, which they silenced so they couldn't report the Warmaster's fleet aproaching to Terra.

A mere consolation prize for losing hundreds of the traitor's finest to a series of unbelievable fuckups. Nevermind how Paramar inevitably came back with a vengeance during the Scouring.

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>>51686060
>hundreds
Sounds like a darn fine number!
t. Ironfag

Nah, kidding. I mean, it's not xenos, we're talking about men and metal post-men with cybermonstrous pets in ZM.
You don't attack forgeworlds in their own turf if you can avoid it, man. I mean, we've heard about them even defeating hive fleets. They're the big deal.

But they had to. Against a prepared enemy fighting in its own trap-laden turf.

And it's not like the AL has a shortage of memerines.

>>51686163

>one of the biggest Legions
>one of the most well trained
>one of the most meticulous and well prepared
>one of the most well equipped
>one of the most talented
>potentially one of the most dangerous elements to exist in the galaxy
>chronically lose battles and campaigns on every tier imaginable in embarrassing fashion

I'm starting to think their geneseed is cursed with bad luck.

>>51686281

Do you think the XXth Legion would encourage its legionaries to modify their arms and armor?

>>51686281
Didn't they fucked up the Space (Job)wolves, held the WS and the UM busy for most of the war, as well as enacted the Dark Compliance alonsgside the SoHs, IWs and (in a way) the DG?

They did their part while the EC were busy getting high and the NL were busy running away, come on anon cut them some slack.

>>51685965
every single one has gold writing. They really got ya fully huh. I hate how they change the color of the lettering to bronze after a time.

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>>51686308
Anon they even modify their very face and personalities.

Just went over the Custodes rules. They seem so powerful. Has /tg/ made a meme list for them, yet? I want to see a list so broken I cry blood and kill myself over.

>>51686311

Space Wolves were mauled at Prospero
White Scars were mauled
Ultramarines were almost annihilated
Raven Guard were almost annihilated

AL should have done a hell of a lot more than

>well, we kept them busy for a while, and then we died (but its okay just as planned)

>>51686321

That's nothing special, considering a fucking World Eater successfully infiltrated a traitor meeting as one of Horus' top generals.

>>51686341
>ultramarines were almost annihilated

lol no

>>51686334
I look forward to reading people say they won't play them like the mega autists in 40k gen with eldar.

>Custodes eh
>Sorry man I'm loyal to the emperor
>we would never fight
>But you have angron
>yeah well this is a great crusade army
>what
>Pre Heresy son. I'll not fight you
>custodes player goes home.

>>51686321
>all the little eye patches

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>>51686321

>>51686334
For someone more into the lore and painting, explain why?

Is it just that the meta is about killing 1 wound , t4 models all day?

>>51686421

Every custodes has character-level stats, basically.

>>51686321

That is true, but if a XXth Legion legionary modified his arms and armor to the extent where he clearly distinct from his brother legionaries, wouldn't that be frowned upon?

Also, it is interesting to note in Praetorian of Dorn that a difference is shown between early generation XXth Legion legionaries and later generation XXth Legion legionaries. Venom "Punished" Silonius being the latter.

The scene in question is when the AL operatives are on a shuttle to Mercury [sic] and one of the human operatives is noting the differences between the AL astartes.

Or am I remembering this all wrong?

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>>51686341
They didn't have much to do with the UM or the RG, anon.
Well, they did fucked up the RG's plots, though. That was fun.

But they fucked up the wolves and the DA had to bring a star fort to save Russ.

>>51686352
Endryyd was wearing SoH pants and the traitor Mechanicum barely ever saw the SoHs...which further proves how effective misdirection tactics are :^)

>>51686378
>>51686393
;^)

>>51683281
I always figured that Mk V meant going beyond simple "Mk III with Mk IV head" hybrid jobs, and instead using components from all over the place to make a suit that doesn't really resemble any of the prior Marks. Like, making one out of salvaged parts from a dozen badly damaged Mk II, III, and IV suits, sensory equipment stripped from a suit of Cataphractii armour, actuators ripped out of an ancient Mk I suit, cables pulled from a tank, and a fuckload of custom parts, all held together with the equivalent of duct tape and Krazy Glue. You know, stuff like that.

I also wish that the Mk V should have remained a distinct pattern, but at least that kind of happened in the last black book, when FW decided to make the classic Mk V design the mass-production version.

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>>51686443
>That is true, but if a XXth Legion legionary modified his arms and armor to the extent where he clearly distinct from his brother legionaries, wouldn't that be frowned upon?
Anon, do you really think the Alpharius Dynat and Exogon you see as (((Special))) characters in the book are always the same person?
Hell, Exodus has been active in several sectors simultaneously.
Alpharius woke up when he put the Pale Spear together, probably the Exodii suddenly remember their hypno-indoctrination when they assemble The Instrument, and Dynats get assigned command upon wearing his regalia.

I think the only dude that really is the same each time is Autilon Skorr, mainly because no one wants to change places with him.

>Or am I remembering this all wrong?
Now do you remember who you are, what you were meant to do? I cheated death thanks to you. And thanks to you I've left my mark. You have too. You've written your own history. You're your own man. I'm Omegon, and you are too. No, he's the two of us together. Where we are today, we built it. This story, this 'legend', it's ours. We can change the world, and with it, the future. I am you and you are me. Carry that with you wherever you go. Thank you, my friend. From here on out, you're Alpharius.
t. Silonius

Ok ok, non-meme answer?
Sure you may, and in fact you may be expected to adorn your armour...depending of the occasion.
Several bling combinations are encouraged, so the enemy can "recognize" you, or rather your character's, actions.
Possibly. I guess.

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What are you /hhg/ crackers working on today?

I am trying to smash out some myrmidons while dodging the insane heat out today.

>>51686281
They aren't actually losing those battles as badly as you think then.

Its literally misinformation and they do have blatant weaknesses like not being able to do things straightforward (hence why Dorn called out Alpharius during the Pluto Siege on his own tactics).

>>51683209
I'd prefer a bit of a middle ground between the plastic and resin Mk IV, really. The FW legs and arms are weirdly thin, but the knees have way more definition than the plastics. They don't have that weird constipated look that plagues a lot of GW Space Marine legs, Calth Marines included, either.

As for FW vs GW Mk III, there's not a great deal of difference, apart from some small adjustments to things like the eyepieces to make them work in plastic. The plastics are very true to the resin ones for the most part.

Not a fan of the Mk III Captain in OP's pic, either. It's like they felt like it couldn't look too different from Mk VII, or else the kiddies would get confused.

>>51686565
It is also likely that AL marines sometimes dress up as 'Commander' to act as bait.

>>51686565

This galaxy will become one; I have found the way. Species, sectorial affiliations, interstellar borders... Even our faces will be irrelevant. The galaxy that The Emperor envisioned will finally become a reality and it will make mankind whole again.

>>51686443
>That is true, but if a XXth Legion legionary modified his arms and armor to the extent where he clearly distinct from his brother legionaries, wouldn't that be frowned upon?
They're psycho-indoctrinated. That much free will and range from what was programmed would be unlikely.

>>51686593

>Its literally misinformation and they do have blatant weaknesses like not being able to do things straightforward

They are capable of doing things straightforward (Paramar plan B was basically roll up the front door with titans); but to put it quite plainly, the natural good luck that is afforded to most Astartes (loyal and traitor) which makes Astartes capable of great and wondrous deeds naturally escapes the Alpha Legion.

>>51686316

Most of them are very expensive $60 Limited editions. Non-Limited has the bronze lettering.

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>>51686619
It's that common I doubt this was Alpharius.
Mainly because I think the AL primarch wasn't even here.
Be thankful I'm not posting that "Legionnary Alpharius" pic.

>>51684708
Nope!

>>51684662
I'm going for a vertigris effect on my reddish/purple tinting warplock bronze basecoat.

I'm applying a heavy initial shade so I have the opportunity to use dry brushing to build as well as blend different colors across the armor without losing much of the underlying effect.

>>51686755
I don't really know how it works But I have gold ones and bronze ones (all for the same normal price), from before BL shit the bed and stopped making paperbacks and instead made hardcovers.

>>51686784
watching AL go from cool to meme is probably the saddest thing in the heresy

>>51686965
I only know them from Eskrador to the present.
Tell a younger anon about the good times, if (You) may.

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Whatre you guys working on?

Got some Tsons stuff in the works

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>>51687000
honestly I have done this before and other anons thought they were boring. The meme infection had taken them.

>>51687050
This reminds me of something I've been meaning to ask. What are some good cape/cloak sources for Space Marine models?
The army I want to do would make heavy use of them, but I'm not good enough with GS to simply model my own.

>>51687064
Relentless attack and martial pride. Sounds nice.

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>>51687064
These two things from 2nd ed chaos was my introduction to AL.

>>51687083
>>51687064
I prefer this Alpha Legion fluff as well. The changes made with the new releases is what convinced me to go with my traditional #2 choice, Night Lords.

>>51687050
kitbashing some lychguard into ushabti, using egyptian heads fromPuppets war and some snipping/gluing

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>>51687064
>>51687083

Newer chaos codexes would just rehash this idea slightly. No big deal. AL are still cool.

Index astartes comes out. I think Graham Davey wrote it. It was also pretty good. But within it were the seeds of a meme. AL would say "for the emperor", as a sick joke of misdirection. "Alpharius was killed by guilliman!" every retard would say despite the IA article saying in a rather obvious way the whole account was bogus shit. "No Alpharius was killed by guilliman!" the retard fanboys would say again and again. The inspired writing of Davey was pearls thrown before swine. But I didn't hate the AL yet.

>>51687050
Working on a custard!

>>51687075
Any "hero" model really. barring anyone with a jump pack. everyone's packing some kind of cape.

>>51687050
Same here, got do paint some 30+ dudes because I'm doing Axis of Dissolution.

>>51687075
http://anvilindustry.co.uk/Exo-Lords/Cloaks-and-Loincloths

Try these

>>51685886
> mfw i already got a IV and XII army.
Now I know what next then...

>>51687075

I'm collecting custodes cape bits, personally. But if I really wanted capes in a jiff, I would accrue more Calth chaplains or Deathwatch cape bits.

>>51687156
Oooo, very nice. I'm more looking for ones draped on the shoulder, but those may just work. The fur cloaks in particular are almost exactly what I was picturing.
Thanks!

>>51687139
Yeah, but $20+ per dude would get expensive really fast. Maybe for sergeants, though...

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>tfw Secutarii Peltasts don't have options for Plasma Calivers or Taser Goads on the Alphas

I'm so fucking close to being able to use my Skitarii without having to awkwardly shoe-horn in their codex to 30K. It can't even be because Forge World doesn't want you to use the plastic models since they were on display at the Weekender and my Rangers can be proxies with Kinetic Hammershot rounds.

>>51683748

Because double quad lascannons on an aV15 5 hull point monster tank isn't actually all that bad at killing not-Spartans

>>51687182
draped over the shoulder will just need to be sculpted. There's no real other choice since arm positions on marines aren't completely set.

You doing wolfs?

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>>51687132
Legion. This book was very bad. Not as a book, it was quite a good book. But as the direction the AL would go.

It really introduced the whole secret loyalist bullshit. Which should be a flogging offence.

"They were saying for the emperor, because they are actually loyalists!"

Fuck off.

Omegon. This is Merrett's fault as it's his idea, not dans. It's really fucking shit though. It dilutes the legion, and the only interesting way it could've gone i.e. civil war has been quashed, by BL.

The memes start here and they do not end. They just build and build as the BL puts out more shit about the AL.

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Do we know when the Inferno book drops on the FW website?

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>>51686602
>Not a fan of the Mk III Captain in OP's pic, either. It's like they felt like it couldn't look too different from Mk VII, or else the kiddies would get confused.

You mean made an updated version of the old? Where as the FW one took the design to a whole new direction.

>>51687228
4-8 weeks

>>51687202
Blackshield Outlanders, fluffed as decadent mercenaries.

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>>51687228
4 weeks

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>>51687210
Oh like BL I completely forgot about the shitty cabal. The cabal is probably the worst reason for turning to a traitor in all of the heresy. Ever. It is so shit BL wrote them out essentially and reduced them to nothing. But it still remains. Xenos turned the AL with a psychic LSD trip. and their solution to chaos was for every human to die. And the AL like some faggot sucking dick for coke agree.

>>51687238
I bet they originated from EC.

>>51687210
I just realized I never got around to finishing that book. They had just fled a battle as the defenders exterminatused themselves and were about to go meet with the Cabal.
Kinda lost interest around there and stopped.

>>51682933
I want a big fucking gunship for 3000+ battles to support my Ultramarines.
Should I get a Fire Raptor or two like everybody else or is the Thunderhawk worth it?

>>51687291
2 Fire Raptors, one Storm Eagle with 10 termies.

Do it.

>>51687268
I haven't decided yet, and they'll be a mix whatever I go with, but I actually prefer to have them be from a more dour legion. The Heresy caused a "go home and rethink my life" moment. If being part of something greater didn't work out, they're now going to do their best to enjoy life until either the Imperium or the Warmaster wipes them out.

I like fatalistic marines.

>see leak about forge world release
Oh neat let-
>GENTLEMEN I GIVE YOU, MORE KHORNE!
oh...

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>>51687256
So now the memes are entrenched. And with each BL novel Alpha Legion grow even more ridiculous. They are deus ex machina in many stories. They are shit. But FW comes along.

Dare I say I begin to hope here? Alan Bligh can do very little wrong in fluff. He is a masterful genius compared to his peers.

And my hope was well placed. He strips Alpha legion back to mystery, This account is a lie. Excellent, beautiful. Certain memes are incorporated but tastefully. I can dig. Alpha legion is my favorite again.

Yet, the cancer that is BL still exists. Dorn kills alpharius for no narrative reason other than to make himself look good. Alpharius dies like a bitch really.

"But anon you still have omegon!" Fuck omegon. Painted as a filthy loyalist and mostly a worthless peice of shit. I hate his existence. Whoever wrote that story can fuck off. Its shit.

This is the problem with two primarchs or being a perpetual (poor vulkan). Some hack at BL will kill you primarch when he gets stuck. And it will be shit. I would prefer Alpharius to have been killed in a shuttle landing accident then the way he went out.

But we still have omegon.

>>51687341

I blame John French.

>>51687341
Has there ever been a story of an Alpha Legion infiltrator who gets killed by another Alpha Legion infiltrator who didn't know he was also Alpha Legion?

>>51683209
Is that converted or is there really such a massive scale difference?

>>51683731
you free hand a crest onto that fucker right above the quad gun or so help me Tzeentch I will end you OR WILL I

>>51683167
a smaller legion should at least initially have relied heavily on anything that could give them an advantage, hence the psychic robot surprise

>>51683222
you can just peel superglue right off, it's far softer than the metal and doesn't bond well with it

also yes, acetone will strip it right off, water too eventually; it's water resistant, not waterproof

i'd like to give you shit about using an Iron Warrior as Death Guard but fuck the Iron Warriors

also that model contains no lead whatsoever

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>>51687341
Omegon will die to guilliman. Because the IA is so old, everyone has forgotten the subtly of it and it's just "facts". Just like when ADB hinted Ultras were rumored to have incorporated a destroyed legion into their ranks. Faggots everywhere took it as gospel.

And so that is the fate of Omegon. Upping the loyalist kill count. Fantastic. who gives a shit.

Then you have the vocal fan base. There are more cancerous fanbases. Like yiffs. But the AL fanbase are basically shitposters with like 3 jokes they repeat ad nauseam. They are the equivalent of For UUUU posters from /tv/. They ruin the AL by their association. They are scum.

>>51687408
See! fuck off cunt. Fuck this meme of shit. I suppose we can't blame him. He is following the shitty lore. But this is how the AL dies to me, a shit joke of trash.

TL;DR Cool in 2nd ed. Index Astartes writes the seed of a meme. Legion fucks up everything. FW damage control. Black library shits the bed so hard I hate the alpha legion.

So yeah fuck the Alpha legion they went from cool, to Bane posting tier.

>>51687355
Was he the writer? I have remove most of it from my mind.

>>51687271
You dodged a fucking bullet.

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>>51687101
You have good taste anon. Long may you raid.

>>51687441

>Omegon will die to guilliman

I doubt that either twin is dead as of 40k, really. Horus' corpse is confirmed, Kurze's head is in a locker somewhere, and the rest of the traitor Primarchs show up in the materium every once in a while. But the twins? No bodies, no proof in 40k.

Which brings the really interesting scenario of revived Guilliman meeting either of the twins again, or perhaps the current Cypher is Alpharius.

>>51687451

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Praetorian_of_Dorn_(Novel)

>>51687441
Would you rather have Space Wolves lore?

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With a little bit of filing and maybe some green stuff, this guy would make a great Nemean Reaver.

>>51687234
I mainly meant the way they redesigned the torso to look more VII ish. And arms, but GW never paid much attention to arms on most of their older-Mark models anyway.

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>>51687471
>the current Cypher is Alpharius
Triggered.

>>51687478
You faggots had your time in the sun. In fact in never sets on your fucking army. Designers love you. They hammed it up with the wolves, but its still mostly the same.

>>51687471
Praetorian of Dorn confirms Alpharius' death 100%. Omegon ponders his loss and the fact that he's now truly alone. It annoys me too. I liked the twin dynamic.

>>51687489
The sword and double pistols unfortunately make me think that he's Dante.

>>51687489
I hope his rules are as kickass as his model

>>51687441
>Because the IA is so old, everyone has forgotten the subtly of it and it's just "facts". Just like when ADB hinted Ultras were rumored to have incorporated a destroyed legion into their ranks. Faggots everywhere took it as gospel.
Yup. Best part about the UM rumour was when ADB reminded people (read: raged) on Warseer about how it was only meant to be a rumour, and people were taking it way too literally.

They did at least play with Garro's possible outcomes from the IA Death Guard article though. Making most of them partially true, but not entirely.

>>51687489
He's definitely joining my Death Guard army.

>>51687489
He almost makes up for how awful Robby looks.

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>>51687082
I missed your comment while writing my rant, but you summed it up perfectly.

>>51687496
Even the old models had a much smoother shaped torso than the metal rings of FW.

I wish GW would have make at least a few MkIIIs into their plastic kits in that style, but FW design is the king now, so we all have to bow down to it. The limbs I can deal with, but torsos and helmets are harder to make work. Even 3rd party makers don't provide much solace.

>>51687599
ADB may have faults (don't we all) but I agree with him that you should never remove all mysteries from a setting. Mystery is what keeps a setting interesting, it keeps people hooked, it provides something to discuss and talk about through speculation and theory. If you explain and resolve every single thing in a setting, it's no better than the ingredïents list on the side of a pack of milk. A story needs eome resolution at the end yes ... But is there anybody that keeps reading the same story their entire life, over and over again, never moving on ?

This is what those complaining about the lore in 40k never progressing fail to see, and what GW is now also failing at : 40k was a setting, a framework in which everybody could invent and make their own story, and even BL stories inside it aren't that bad. Because those do not fundamentally change the setting. But now they're advancing what they mistakenly see as the story of 40k, and no matter what they do there will always be a ton of fans who will not agree with the direction some things are going.

>>51687711
>This is what those complaining about the lore in 40k never progressing fail to see, and what GW is now also failing at : 40k was a setting, a framework in which everybody could invent and make their own story, and even BL stories inside it aren't that bad. Because those do not fundamentally change the setting. But now they're advancing what they mistakenly see as the story of 40k, and no matter what they do there will always be a ton of fans who will not agree with the direction some things are going.
I agree entirely.
What GW is doing to 40k is just as bad as End Times.

>>51687711
this is why I find that lore contradictions to be a blessing, especially with the all editions are canon attitude, it creates the impression of many in universe sources, only semi-reliable, none unbiased, al those clashing sources preserves ambiguity

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>>51687711
100% agreement. Spot on. A book ties everything up because you put it down and never read it again (most likely)

>>51685404
Because they don't need unit-wide Iron Arm on top of being 2w 2+/3++ for 35pts.

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>>51687237
>>51687241
Oh for fucks sake, that's gonna be a long wait.

>>51687711
It's not just mystery, but when you set something to paper, everything you do has to revolve around that. Look at Star Wars EU and all the billions of plots all rolled into one big ball of autism.

When you keep the stories small and at a distance from important stuff, you give yourself room. FW style historical documents compiled after the Heresy is one way to tell the tale but give yourself the room through distancing the narrator from the events. Another way is telling 1st hand accounts through an unreliable 3rd party. A mook trooper witnessing the burning of Prospero will have a totally different view of events than stories told from the perspective of people in charge.

I don't take nerd rage over hints as pure "they think it's 100% true" but also "if it is true, than that's bullshit and I hope it's not true."

>>51687711
>ADB may have faults (don't we all) but I agree with him that you should never remove all mysteries from a setting. Mystery is what keeps a setting interesting, it keeps people hooked, it provides something to discuss and talk about through speculation and theory. If you explain and resolve every single thing in a setting, it's no better than the ingredïents list on the side of a pack of milk. A story needs eome resolution at the end yes ... But is there anybody that keeps reading the same story their entire life, over and over again, never moving on ?
I agree, but it's funny that ADB said this considering MoM confirms chaos has already won everything forever, and it's plans are 2deep4you scrub, oh yes AND Horus never really mattered, abaddabadoo is the real villain all along.

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>thinking of getting into the game
>really digging thar whole operator CIA thing the Alpha Legion have going on
>this thread has completely turned me off them
There's still the Raven Guard I guess...

>>51687943
Don't let anonymous assholes on the internet to scare you off. I know I wouldn't have started my legion if I listened to everything bad people say about them and their playerbase.

>>51687916
His mandate to rebuild abaddon from "megatron trying to be the great satan", into actually being the great satan was doomed to failure. I actually thought he could do it. But abaddon in damaged beyond repair.


>>51687943
As the one who ranted about them. I say go for it. You haven't even really seen them fall anyways. The CIA shit is what they are now. If you like it you should be happy. Ignore and never read legion. FW is your bible.

>>51687943
Old guys like us bitch and moan and complain, but don't let that stop you form playing what you like. At least half of this is just "back in my day" stuff. If they'd always been like they are now we'd probably like them just fine.

Are Sisters of Silence a thing on their own now, or do I have to take Custodes/Yiffs?

>>51687943
Don't let the bullies get to you. The best thing about AL is that you can always explain things away with your personal headcanon that nobody else knows about. Deep undercover operatives don't share truths and all that ...

>>51687999
Sisters of Silence are in the same army list, but you don't have to take them.

https://imgur.com/a/emdin/

>>51687943

You could siege with IV Legion bros, get stuck into melee with XII Legion bros, or become walking WMDs with XIV Legion bros.

>>51687999
They are part of the same army list as Custodes, but there is nothing in the rules saying you HAVE to take any. You are perfectly free to only run SoS, though you'll need 1 HQ per 3 squads (meaning in HH you'll be restricted to 9 non-HQ units, not including vehicles).

>>51687999
They're not a good standalone army at all. Think IG stormtroopers, but then with even less weapon options, single vehicle and boobs.

>>51687969
his repeated failures mean any attempt to make him work is always going to feel like what it is, the hand of the author handing him victories instead of him earning it, because in lore, chaos doesn't earn jack shit

>>51683965
>lathe-turned
Nice, it looks like there's more of us getting creative.

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>>51688037
They should write abaddon as a belligerent dumbass. It would be consistent

>>51687943
Magos Pavellus? I'm Alpharius.

>>51687943
>playing DA when lion is a traitor
>playing EC when they're gay
>playing IW when everyone already does
>playing WS when they never did anything
>playing SW when they have a wolf name lol
>playing IF when iron cage :^)
>playing NL when DG and WE are spoopier
>playing BA when gaaaaaaaaaaay
>playing IH when your primarch died first
>playing WE when 3+ armour save ;^)
>playing UM when guilliamans a traitor
playing DG when they smell bad
>playing TS when only WAAC fags do
>playing SoH when they have the worst LA rule
>playing WB when, well, it's fucking WBs
>playing S when they never did anything
>playing RG when they never did anything
>playing AL when they already did everything

>playing mech when they aren't marines
>playing SA when they aren't marines
>playing Militia and Cults when they aren't marines
>playing talons when you aren't a WAAC fag

>>51688054
fucking kek

>>51688064
>playing BA when fabulous*

There we go.

>>51688054

He wasn't alone.

>>51688064
>playing SoH when they have the worst LA rule
Do people actually believe this?

>>51688093
Legion?

>>51688104
>Do people actually believe this?
SoH whinge about it all the time, of course every time they do they always forget about Death Dealers.

>>51688053
Honestly a dumb ass chaos ruler who's in change because chaos deemed him a valuable and charismatic pawn would actually work, abaddons failure get context, while making chaos feel a bit better at coming up with ideas, they need abaddon as a way of rallying their minions together in a way only a mortal can

>>51688064
>playing NL when DG and WE are spoopier
I thought the main putdown for the Edge Lords is that they are shitty soldiers who fail at everything they attempt?

>>51688115
>>51688104
how the fuck could you have the worst LA when Dark Angels exist
jesus christ

>>51688104

Aye.

>>51687711
And this is why advancing the plot is kind of dumb in 40k. I mean, sure, in a character-driven narrative like WarmaHordes (though they have some serious issues with advancing the plot and having the eternal war where millions die in a pre-modern society on a single continent but nobody important actually dies and no faction gets wiped out or surrenders make sense) or Malifaux you have to, because the fluff is more or less about those characters and their journey.

40k was always more of a setpiece. Pick a faction and make Your Dudes, because the universe is infinite and there are literally billions of soldiers to pick from. There are ways to advance the setting, either by introducing new factions like the Tau or Necrons, or having an event that changes things slightly while maintaining the status quo. The problem is that some people mistakenly thought they should "advance the setting" by having major upheavals in the status quo, failing to realize that if the Emperor wakes up, not only do you lose out on the mystery of "what happens when/if the Emperor dies/wakes up, but you're now in a situation where one or several factions actually have to be wiped out, or at the very least change drastically. The reason the Nids should never get to Terra is because that has one of to results. Either they eat it and the Imperium is fucked, which would be stupid for obvious reasons. Or they lose, and you piss off people because now the Nids are jobbers. It's better to have them as unstoppable monsters that are perpetually almost there, because at that point you have happy Nid players and you set up cool narratives where other factions just barely hold them off or fight a series of losing battles trying to delay/diminish/redirect them.

The same goes for Chaos. Chaos stops being interesting the moment Chaos wins. Their entire thing is the enemy within, which makes for fun stories of intrigue, corruption and betrayal. The moment they win they're just spiky edgelords.

>>51688064
>>playing DA when lion is a closet homo and traitor
>>playing EC when they're twinks
>>playing IW requires you to decimate your miniatures after every loss
>>playing WS when they are smelly mongols
>>playing SW when they are dog fuckers and proud of it
>>playing IF when yellow and pain glove
>>playing NL edge and cowardice
>>playing BA when gaaaaaaaaaaay
>>playing IH when your primarch died first and actually hates cybernetics
>>playing WE when retarded wind up kill bots in every situation
>>playing UM when you're not OCD
>playing DG when they smell really bad IRL
>>playing TS when only WAAC fags do
>>playing SoH when they have horus and abaddon to worhtless fuckups
>>playing WB when lorgar cried his way into evil
>>playing S when they are fucking lava golems
>>playing RG when they are softcock cry babies like corax (gate 42 hates space sharks)
>>playing AL when t.Alpharius
>>playing mech when they aren't marines
>>playing SA when they aren't marines
>>playing Militia and Cults when they aren't marines
>>playing talons when you aren't a WAAC fag

>>51688030
That's kind of sad. I'm still in a bit of SoB withdrawal and thought they might be able to fill the void.

>>51688128
you're hired.

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>>51686586
Gonna start working on these flamer guys.

CLEANSE
PURGE
KILL

>>51688176
ywn set psyker scum on fire at your primarch's order

>>51688129
I though it was
>it's also a hammer

Is there any piece of old fluff that states "Abaddon won all his crusades" or before 6th ed was he absolute failure?

>>51688151
>The same goes for Chaos. Chaos stops being interesting the moment Chaos wins. Their entire thing is the enemy within, which makes for fun stories of intrigue, corruption and betrayal. The moment they win they're just spiky edgelords.

Only really applies to abaddon. Tons of chaos marines really don't give a fuck and have no purpose other than self gratification and pleasing their god. These chaos guys are well liked in the fanbase. Kharn and Typhus etc. Give them an impossible goal and then make them arrogant fucks about how good they are and you get the failbaddon problem. Fulgrim chilling on a daemon world. Angron's attack on armageddon. Those are victories greater than any abaddon will ever achieve. Angron was even defeated by grey knights but they had to work hard for it. And what does Angron care, he probably doesn't even remember.

GW fucked up chaos hard. They are going to age of emperor 40k in some way and I will watch with interest.

>>51688227
They didn't pay it much attention, as far as I know. Obviously they just liked the sound of 40k having a "13th Black Crusade" without putting much thought into it.
It's only recently that they seem to realize the implied dozen failures means their main Chaos baddie comes across as Team Rocket.

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>>51688227

>>51687064
>>51687082
>>51687654
So it's the same as the Black Legion?

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>>51688306

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>>51688325
I forgot the last paragraph. They still used cults and shit.

>>51688256
Yeah, but if Chaos wins, what the fuck is Kharn and Typhus going to do? Slaughter prisoners and randomly infect people? Chaos is only interesting when Chaos is the Great Enemy.

>>51688227
Liber Chaotica maybe?
It's not so old though, 2005 I think.

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>>51688152
>>>playing IW requires you to decimate your miniatures after every loss

By Terra, you are right.
This needs to be a thing.

At the end of the campaign, the losing side breaks and/or cuts one unit for every ten unit.

>>51687943
I initially wanted to do Word Bearers, but due to the influence of others, I ended up doing Alpha Legion. Halfway through building that army, I decided to strip them and go with Word Bearers after all. I'm now sitting at about 3300 points and have no interest in doing anything other than expanding them and adding in various Mech/Cult/Auxilia allies.