/btg/ Battletech General!

>>51672898
>So to stand a chance I have to spend $30+?
BattleTech isn't WYISWYG, so no, you don't have to spend any money. Unless the GM is anal, as long as you clearly state that the Commandos are Griffins, or whatever, and don't flip flop on what Commando is which Griffin, you're fine.

>>51673046
Wow those are ugly ASF

>>51673190
Tell that to their twin LGRs. I dare you.

>>51673188
The GM isn't the one that's anal, I am. It doesn't bug me when other people do it, but when I proxy models it bugs the shit out of me.

>>51673232
Then yes, you have to spend money. I'd probably try the mechs you suggested, but I think I'd lose unless I was fighting only Koshis or something.

>>51673172
All of them date back to the SL and are found throughout the inner sphere, though the only world able to build new Awesome was in the FWL and Catapults were mostly in the CC, but were also produced in the Draconis Combine (but those are weird K2 variants).

At the lance level, however, I'd suggest ignoring what 'mechs are common or built in each house. Every 'mech in the box set could easily show up in any great house Lance by 3050.

>>51672824

>What are the best medium and heavy mechs for emphasis on armour and maneuverability?

Wolverine-6M, Wraith, Lightray, Ti T'sang, Thunder, Lao Hu, Falconer.

Some of those have XLs but the additional firepower and speed make up for that since they also have max, or near-max, armour.

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>>51673343

I have liked the Lao Hu from Mechcommander 2. It's a very solid design, damage climbs as you close and you've got a good heat curve. The XL isn't perfect, but it would be slow as fuck without it.

>>51673383
>Lao Hu

More like "Lmao Who?"

Guys, the Dylan repository that AtB pastebin in the OP references as where to find the newest MekHQ is not up to date, it has 0.41.17 MekHQ while there's 0.42 out: https://github.com/MegaMek/mekhq/releases/tag/v0.42.0

>>51673468
Cappie civil war era 75 tonner with an LBX AC20, ER L. Laser, LRM 15 and plenty of armor.

Ugly design though.

>>51673542
Well congrats anon, you just gave me something to doodle.

>>51673558
>>51673542
Just a quick clarification, does the Lao Hu have a lower arm actuator for the right arm?

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>>51673588
The computer says "nooooo".

>>51673588
No

>>51673542
People with shit taste should be forbidden to post

>>51673253
I own 2 Banshees, 2 Commandos, 1 Atlas, 1 Zeus, 1 Battlemaster, 1 Dervish, 1 Hunchback and 1 Grasshopper when it comes to Mechs I know the Lyrans use.

Other Mechs I own are:
1 Vindicator, 1 Clint, 1 Whitworth, 1 Vulcan, 1 Flea, 1 Awesome, 1 Trebuchet, 1 Cyclops, 1 Dragon, 1 Jenner, 1 Panther, 1 Assassin, 1 Hermes II, 1 JagerMech, 1 Enforcer and 1 Cicada.

I can use TROs 3039, 3050, 3058 and 3060.

What are the books I need to run a newbie Battletech RPG campaign with mechfighting involved? Just A Time of War/Classic Battletech RPG + Total War, or are some other rulebooks/sourcebooks mandatory?

Also, what era/premise would be the best for a first time GM and first time players, assuming I want the players to be mechwarriors (or at least engaged in fighing in some other way)?

>>51674435

I would use The BattleTech Master Rules and MechWarrior 2nd Edition, much easier to get into and better integrated. If you read either the Warrior Trilogy for 3025 or the Blood of Kerensky trilogy for 3050 those will get you up and running for the lore.

>>51674470
What makes it easier to get into? Never read it.

As an aside, I discovered the 3E/CBT master lifepath list is very much incomplete and I was looking for a better compilation or a character generation program. Anybody?

>>51674693

The BMR and MW2E are both much, much more clearly written and sensibly laid out than MW3E/CBTRPG and Total Warfare.

Of the common mechs contained in the introductory box set, which ones are most likely to be found in the Magistracy?

Like I can imagine the Dragon, Jenner, Panther and Zeus wouldn't be.

Taurian Import/Salvage: Commando.
FWL Import/Salvage: Spider, Cicada, Hermes II, Hunchback, Enforcer, Trebuchet, Awesome
Capellan Import/Salvage: Vindicator, Catapult
Really old and generic shit everyone uses even if they don't like it: Assassin, Whitworth, Dervish, Quickdraw, JagerMech, Cyclops, Banshee, Atlas

Even the Panther, Jenner, Dragon and Zeus could show up out there in theory, it would just be weird to see more than one per Battalion.

>>51674957
Did you forget that BattleMech Manual exists? I would suggest to pick BMM instead of BMR

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To continue discussion from last thread:

Dave the Toymaker appears to be related to Randall Bills.

>>51675158

BMR is still more concise and includes more unit types. Has construction rules too.

>>51674957

Old things are always better. New things are always bad.

>>51675244

The recasting is technically IWM's problem, not Randall's problem, since the license is permanently transferred to IWM. Still the optics on this are TERRIBLE. If it were any other company, I'd expect Randall to resign, but this being CGL...

>>51675333
>includes more unit types.
One issue though is those other unit types are where the main rule changes happened when TW came along.

>>51675244
He apparently makes catered hot lunches.
Which, in the volunteer service world, means he provides hot bowls of soup to the homeless.
It's kind of sad, really. I can see why he would try to scam people out of money with bad recasts if he spends his day as a food 'artist' .

I'm with this guy: we tend to say that TW didn't change much, but that's for mechs. There were a lot of changes for non-mech units.

And for mechs only, the BMM is a lot better than the BMR.

>>51675915
Isn't BattleMech Manual 10$ for a beta product though, or is it another thing?

>>51675915
>>51675791

It's not like TW includes a section where they go through what changed from the BMR or anything either.

As a one-stop-shot for learning the game the BMR is still the way to go.

>>51675982
It is now. You could get it for a fiver, but that's over with. I'd wait until the final to actually pick it up, whenever that is. If you need something right now, then yeah, TW or the BMR (depending on how much you're using non-mech units).

>>51675764
>The recasting is technically IWM's problem, not Randall's problem, since the license is permanently transferred to IWM. Still the optics on this are TERRIBLE. If it were any other company, I'd expect Randall to resign, but this being CGL...

From a legal standpoint, I see where you're coming from. But I think the Line Developer, and CGL as a whole, have an obligation to protect Battletech as a whole IP.

New players have been getting fucked over by this guy for years. That's bad for Battletech as a whole.

Now we find out that the person that has been actively fucking over new people interested in BT is related to the LD? Is there any way that, after the better part of a decade of the very public anger directed at Toymaker, Randall didn't know that Toymaker was in his family? I am having trouble seeing how.

At this point, it's almost like Topps needs to get involved.

>>51676062

OTOH, Topps gave a grand total of zero fucks about the Coleman situation, and that had a tangible impact on their licenses.

>>51676132
I wouldn't be surprised if Topps privately gave quite a few fucks. Actually, it may not have been private - just that Topps doesn't exactly post on the official Battletech forums. Remember that they did briefly offer the BT and SR IPs for sale, and that CGL was short on their fees due to the porch.

It may well be that CGL is on thin ice with Topps as it is. Now the possibility that the line developer is okay with his family selling unauthorized reproductions in art that got the entire BT franchise in trouble before? If I was Topps, I'd be pissed.

>>51676180

Topps' interest in the game is limited to what they can get out of the license deals. They know the game is dying and probably beyond saving.

It's nice to imagine that they would descend from on high and nuke the shit out of CGL like they so richly deserve but that is a bigger fantasy than giant robots shooting the shit out of each other.

>>51676218
I reject the notion that BT is dying. Changing, sure. But not dying. CGL might be dying, but that's entirely for internal reasons.

If CGL ceased to exist tomorrow, BT would still live on. It may even grow, withwhat the new digital presence of the IP.

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Holy shit, they are related.

I was holding out hope that maybe Toymaker was just, you know, being his usual liar self.

>>51676770
I missed the part where we saw that David Bills was Dave the Toymaker. What brought up the connection there?

>>51676819
http://www.ebay.com/usr/dave_the_toymaker

Plus, people who have contacted him after getting ripped off confirm his name and the fact that he claims he's randalls brother.

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>>51676819
>>51676916
also

>>51676939
That'll do it.

So why are his knockoffs so shitty then? I mean, I doubt Randall's giving him new molds or whatever, but at the same time you'd figure if he's been doing this for so long he'd be better at it, instead of enjoying a reputation for total shit. Does he just make a mold and then run it into the ground for years after it should have been retired?

>>51675076

>Quickdraw, JagerMech, Cyclops, Banshee, Atlas

Why wouldn't someone like any of those, save for the Cyclops which is a crappy assault machine?

>>51677026
That's a very good question.

One possibility is that they're not recasts. They could theoretically be the old Ral Partha molds that were supposedly destroyed. Without the spin-casting equipment, the result would be shit and would only get worse after hundreds of casts on the same mold(molds are generally good for a few dozen runs)

>>51677211
>One possibility is that they're not recasts. They could theoretically be the old Ral Partha molds that were supposedly destroyed. Without the spin-casting equipment, the result would be shit and would only get worse after hundreds of casts on the same mold(molds are generally good for a few dozen runs)

Not a chance in hell. The mold lines are different.

>>51677253

well then Randall sucks at managing risk factors to his business then

Like we didn't know that already.

>>51675982
>Giving CGL money, ever.

>>51673190
I think they're cute.

>>51675076
>Spider, Enforcer, Awesome
I wouldn't think they'd be too common, since the Spider is exported to the Dracs, the Enforcer is a Davion machine, and the Awesome is an assault which the FWLM is always in dire need of and so unlikely to export (or lose in a fight).

>>51677573
The whole list is doofy. He listed Dervish and Jagermech as generic even though those fall as squarely into Fedsuns as Catapult does into CC/Dracs. Whitworth is also FWL/Dracs like the Spider. Assassin is FWL. He also said nobody likes the Atlas which is downright insane.

>>51677645
You're right. The ones I mentioned just caught my eye.

Which one of you did this? http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56351.msg1286503 . I don't want to crosspost from the OF, but what the fuck man, this is top tier autism. I pray to God it's a larp.
>It takes me 30-60 hours to create a lance

>>51677696
None of us posted that, no one here has such a concentrated form of pure autism.

>>51677696
It was I.

>>51677573
>>51677645
With the Awesome, at least, there's going to be decent numbers everywhere, just because it was common in the SL era and virtually impossible to completely destroy, so the survival/salvage rate is going to be high

>>51677924
Not really when it's a preferred target on the field like the Marauder. They didn't make up the survival meme until 3039 with the Black Knight and even then only as a Monty Python reference.

>>51677696
Hahahahahaha thirty to sixty hours wtf

>>51677997
I mean, awesomes will go down, it's just that they will very, very rarely be unsalvagable when they do. I've been playing for almost ten years and I don't think I've ever actually seen an awesome go down from being cored out, it's always legs or heads or gyros going

>>51677924
Not when it's only built in one place and apocalyptic war has been waged for two and half centuries.

Is there a single capellan made mech that doesn't look like ass? Because I really want to like some of them, but the art and models just completely turns me off.

>>51678039
I've killed a number myself over the years, and usually it's about 1/4 get cored in a real assault fight with big guns involved. Point being though, that they're getting shot first and hardest, so they're dropping down more than the boys sitting in the backfield.

This kind of preferred targeting is why so many designs went extinct in the early Succession Wars. It's a credit to the Awesome's toughness that it's still around in every state. But that doesn't mean any kind of commonality.

>>51678113
>Hating the Phract, Lao Hu, Vindy, or Ching Chong

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>>51677696
Wow, I just mean... wow.

>>51678113
What? Cappies have some of the most aesthetic mechs.

>>51678144
>Ching Chong
That a Dark Age design? Never heard of it and it seems borderline racist.

>>51678204
The Yinghuochong, I think

>>51678204
>Not giving the stupid CGL Chinese names better nicknames

I bet you've never even driven the Dong.

>>51678204
Hey, hey, HEY! You lay off. That's the Confederation's first ICE engine mech that runs off of rice and good intentions. It's a Catalyst special. It defeats all the roast beef eaters in one on one combat by instantly making all new pilots elite just by then sitting in the cockpit.
>It's like some people don't know about the new birth or something. Sheesh.

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>>51677696

> I have spent the last 12 hours working on this issue. A whole day wasted. I think the most logical course of action is to give up playing BT altogether. I can't see any way to be competitive, short of going to part time at work and devoting my entire life outside of work to BT, and I am not willing to do that.

Umm... What?

>>51678247
It's the autism equivalent of refined sugar: pure beyond reasoning and exactly as terrible for you.

>>51678247

>be competitive

Something most people don't give a shit about anyway.

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>>51678247
Jesus.

>>51678296
Have we stumbled on the Ulililia of Battletech?

>>51677696
>looking at some other threads
>CA is using my TRO: Perseus and Perseus Accessories image as his avatar
feels good

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soon™ is rapidly becoming very soon™

>>51678398
I've got to have the flair somewhere anon. Unless I get the Quirks Complaint Dept. title I suggested to Xotl.

So is the 3rd c-ERLL on the Blood Kite in the left hand?

There are so many laser looking glass tubes on that design I can't make heads or tails of it.

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>>51678911

>>51678947
thanks mang, simplifies tings a lot.

>>51678947

Was that thing even effective?

>>51679090
Actually yeah. If you ignore the horrific art, it's a credible stalker IIC, and is pretty good at it

>>51678911
>There are so many laser looking glass tubes on that design I can't make heads or tails of it.

That is a part of its natural non-Euclidean camouflage to confuse would-be predators. Can't strike a vital area if your mind is broken.

Were the Inner Sphere units involved in the Great Refusal allowed to keep salvage from their Clan opponents on Strana Mechty?

And what would have been some of the more interesting second line machines they would have encountered there?

>>51679683
>Were the Inner Sphere units involved in the Great Refusal allowed to keep salvage from their Clan opponents on Strana Mechty?
Yes. Practically every clantech machine in the IS in the 60s wasn't taken in Bulldog comes from that salvage

>>51679683
>>51679750
Bulldog and Serpent is where they got the salvage.

The Great Refusal itself, with the binaries vs companies, did not include salvage.

>>51679750
>>51679994

What good is that salvage to the Inner Sphere powers anyway?

What they'd salvage, they'd only be able to use in that configuration as they don't have the pods for the others and they have no way of replenishing those pods should they take damage or be destroyed.

Do they just affix the weapons to it permanently or something?

Or are they just studying said salvage to learn from it?

>>51680231
Studying, learning how to improve their own tech. In many cases weapons and equipment were stripped out for customizing the IS machines, like Archer Christifori did. In some cases machines were handed to specific persons as rewards, like how Theodore Gross received a pristine Masakari on Solaris VII.

Pods stay the same. It wouldn't be hard to figure out how to reconfigure them, they'd just need spares of weapons, equipment, and ammunition to resupply said pods once damaged.

>>51680335
>Christifori's Penetrator
Not a huge fan of the man, but that was a dope ride.

>>51680442

Whatever happened to him anyway? I keep hearing he went missing in a campaign against the Jade Falcons.

>>51680231
>What good is that salvage to the Inner Sphere powers anyway?
>What they'd salvage, they'd only be able to use in that configuration as they don't have the pods for the others and they have no way of replenishing those pods should they take damage or be destroyed.

Weapons are not just the pods but fit modularly into the pods as well. That's how you get all the custom omni rides.

Also, since IS omni tech was reverse engineered from clan stuff and uses the same standard (minus those 3060's proprietary FWL faggots), you can slap clan weapons straight onto IS omnis. Look at the original Dragon Roars book for all the crazy stuff they did with captured clan weapons in Bulldog.

>>51680469
He was killed in action.

Kind of a shame. And a shame what happened to his unit.

I think a quick irregular brigade of his Avengers would have served the LAAF/LCAF well, in the vein of the Stealths or Chisholm's Raiders for the AFFS.

>>51680580
>3060's proprietary FWL
[desire to know more intensifies]

>>51677645
>Whitworth is also FWL/Dracs like the Spider. Assassin is FWL.
What?

>>51674435
>what era/premise would be the best for a first time GM and first time players
Planetary revolt with outside support, any era.

Speaking of salvage, is there any way to give a vehicle cargo capacity in Meklab? A lot of support vehicles and dropships have a cargo capacity listed as "88 tons" or "88 tons 1 door". But if I try to make a new vehicle the only way I can add cargo is to put cargo bays in as misc equipment and they only range from .5-10 tons in size. What I need is a selector that allows me to specify capacity in tons like how it handles infantry cargo, but I can't find an option for that. Is this simply not supported yet?

>>51680867

What happened to the rest of the Avengers then?

And was the Jihad nothing more than an attempt on the writer's part to get rid of the excess characters, mercenary commands and military units (like the Comguards)?

I notice outside of the Clan units, a lot of the commands and units that were destroyed among the Houses and in the Mercenary world were not rebuilt.

>>51680442
What was the specs of his?

>>51677493
I've been boycotting them for about five years now. Still love the game, but fuck the company.

>>51680883
Info is in the Jihad Era upgrade TRO's. The Drac factories license their designs to the FWL but FWL manufacturing makes a lockout system so only pods they produce work with their mechs.

>>51681022
The two remaining Avengers regiments were folded into the new Thorin FTM. Then it was kept near Tharkad, and when the Falcons jumped the border (yet again) it was committed into action. It took losses and after Archer was killed I believe the remaining survivors actually quit the LAAF and joined a merc unit that later disappeared.

I also remained convinced that Katya Chaffee was a Blakist ROM agent.

>>51681022
>was the Jihad nothing more than an attempt on the writer's part to get rid of the excess characters, mercenary commands and military units (like the Comguards)?

Not really, though they did take the opportunity to use it to clean house. Mostly they were bound by the DA material which said stuff like the Comguard were ground down to nothing and then the remnants disbanded at the end of the war.

>>51681166
>I also remained convinced that Katya Chaffee was a Blakist ROM agent.
proofs

>>51681166
>joined a merc unit that later disappeared.
>I also remained convinced that Katya Chaffee was a Blakist ROM agent.

Pretty sure they became Chaffee's Cutthroats by the DA.

>>51681136
I've never heard that. Interesting. Any idea which TRO specifically? An interesting retcon.

>>51681204
Not a retcon. Remember the Upgrade series are all dated to the late 3060's-early 3070's. So that production is from that period.

It's the TRO that has all those omnis in it, so 3058 Upgrade.

What are some Mechs where the base chassis is not FWL specific, but that they still use a lot? For example, I know everyone uses Stalkers, but the FWL has a particularly high concentration.

>>51681202
They linked up with the Knights of St. Cameron and that unit disappeared. The name is likely a coincidence.

>>51681249
>Not a retcon
It's a retcon if it appears several years after the equipment in question did. The in-universe dates only confirms it as one.

>>51681251
Thunderbolts, griffins, wolverines, marauders, warhammers. They're big on the unseen

>>51681251

I believe the League is said to be a large users of Thunderbolts and Battlemasters (distinctions they share with their Lyran neighbors) and the Orion (which they evidently exported to the Lyrans in some cases).

>>51681071
The file is in MegaMek, it's considered Experimental since it's mixtech.

>>51681251
How so? I mean you can say that about pretty much everything old school they make because of their international corportations and exports.

>>51681277
>appears several years after the equipment in question did
It doesn't though. It says "in the last ten years, these designs have also be licensed to be produced at X Y and Z"

>>51681201
A bunch of things, including her location in the Terran corridor, ComStar background, constant access to military intelligence that amazes people, the fact WoB was backing the Allied side, etc.

>>51681329
>It doesn't though
If the assertion appears in an upgrade TRO written years after the mechs appeared in canon, it's a retcon.

>>51681470
I guess that is literally the definition of retcon.

>>51681470

You're using a definition of a retcon that literally nobody else uses. Of course, you couldn't be wrong - it's clearly everyone else who's wrong.

Correct?

Pre-Xin Sheng Magic did the Magistracy produce the Marauder or Phoenix Hawk?

My character is a Canopian and I want them to use a homemade mech and the best I can find so far is the Shadow Hawk.

Did they ever design their own mechs like the Taurians did with the Toro and Talos?

>>51681537
I know rite?

>>51681552
I don't see why you're taking this so personal. That's really weird.

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>>51680968
It's time for you to stop namefagging.

>>51681601
Look at who you're talking to.
One person who says
>everyone else

Probably a narcissistic shitposter. Might want to stop talking to them now.

>>51681581
>Pre-Xin Sheng Magic did the Magistracy produce the Marauder or Phoenix Hawk?
Nope. They had a stash of old marauders, but no production. Literally all they made was bugs and shads
>Did they ever design their own mechs like the Taurians did with the Toro and Talos?
Nope. Until xin sheng penis magic; the MoC was complete trash industrially

>>51681604
Why? He's contributing.

>>51681652

None of the namefags contribute anything meaningful, and they should stop with a quickness. Every damn one of them is a shit-tier garbage subhuman.

>>51681470
It's impossible to be a retcon when it's a concurrent timeline. TRO 3058 putting the Devastator into production when previously it was only a prototype in 3044 was not a retcon because the year was 3058. Same when the Dracs opened a new Whitworth plant or any number of other brand new lines that have opened as the universe has moved forward in time.

This isn't like 3039 where they went back into the past and changed things.

>>51681581
>>51681651
>nation run by women
>shit industry and survives off sex and gossip
Does /pol/ write for BT?

>>51681695
Look, it's clear you've got some anger issues. Maybe you should step away from the computer, go outside, and clear your head? with a 12ga

>>51681719
>this case of a later writing going back to change how things were in the past isn't like another piece of writing done after the fact that also went back to change how things were in the past
Respectfully, and because I don't believe this warrants an argument, let's agree to disagree and drop it.

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>>51681726
Top bantz

>>51681750
Because it's not going into the past and was not after the fact. Read the actual book. It's literally TRO:3070 Part 3 Designs Introduced in TRO 3058 and what has happened to them since then. And it came out when Battletech was in 3070 with Hotspots 3070.

You can't call that the past bro.

Does anyone have a link to a full archive of Battlecoprs? Thanks you

>>51681724
Nah, because it's managed to survive despite the best efforts of it's neighbors.

>>51677054

Quickdraw and JagerMech are outright bad, and while everyone loves the Banshee-3S it's limited in availability to the Suns, Lyrans, and FRR.

>>51677573

I meant to put Enforcer in with the Generics, yes. Spider is Periphery General, the JagerMech eventually gets to Periphery General (and arguably should always have been there, but hey, MUL), and both the Whitworth and Dervish are Periphery General. Enforcers show up on MoC RATs.

The other stuff I only bothered to separate into Taurian, FWL, or Capellan gear because those would be the most likely sources. The MoC share borders for salvage and/or easier trade in quiet periods. 300+ years of salvage, losses, and salvage again or inheriting them from the SL covers why machines end up where they do well enough for everything else.

>>51681719

There are books from not long after TR 3058 saying those designs were licensed to other nations. We just didn't find out where or what most of them were until the Handbooks series.

>>51682322

What is wrong with the Quickdraw?

>>51681811
If it's a Jihad era publication, which is what I was originally told, going back and talking about how something years earlier (both in real time and BT time) was, it is. Someone pointed out that such revisions are the definition of a retcon. You don't have to agree with me but I suppose I don't understand your insistence.

>>51682384
The Quickdraw is an aggressively blah design. It doesn't do anything cripplingly wrong, but it similarly does absolutely nothing right. It's just so meh it becomes a kind of singularity of blandness. I can't even get worked up about it being bad because just talking about the Quickdraw drains me of all passion or feeling.

Of course, the one experimental Quickdraw with the head turret, hoist lift, and the handheld weapons is a totally different beast.

>>51682384
It's like a Dragon, but with even less tonnage to use for weapons and a fluff reason to use it.

Well, there is using it as a head-kicker, but other than that not really.

>>51682384

Barely tolerable as an overgrown medium in 3025, but the armour is really bad. It has the speed and guns to make life miserable for Bugs but things like the 55-ton trio out-armour and usually outrange it. Also two of its MLs are fixed rear. Good luck with that.

>>51682398

Clarifying something that wasn't defined isn't a retcon. Going back and changing something that was already defined is a retcon.

It's not retroactive if it was never defined in the first place. It's just establishing the continuity.

>>51682481
Are rear facing weapons worth it?

>>51682398
They didn't revision anything or change anything. That's what you don't understand. Like when TRO:3075 talked about Celestials that premiered in 3072 was that a retcon? No.

And also this guy is right >>51682322 the stuff claimed as a retcon was already mentioned in 3067 material like Handbook House Marik.

>>51682512
Rarely, but they're fun and I miss them.

>>51682512

Only sometimes. An ML or two facing backwards in 3025 isn't that bad.

It's just that if the forward-facing weapons are really limited then having them mounted to the rear really sucks. The Quickdraw wouldn't move to God-tier if the rear-facing MLs were moved to the arms, but having 4 MLs on a 5/8/5 machine with 13 heat dissipation would be a significant improvement.

>>51682505

This. Imagine we FASA never talked about the specific missions Wolf's Dragoons undertook for the CapCon during 3010-3014. They just said, "Wolf's Dragoons worked for the Capellans from 3010-3014, then went to work for the Free World's League in late 3014 where they became enmeshed in the Marik Civil War."

Stuff happens, and we roll around to the Clan Invasion. During the strategy meetings Col Wolf drops a reference to getting stuck on garrison duty on Carver V in 3013 so the Cappies wouldn't have to pay them combat bonuses.

That's not a retcon. It doesn't change the existing continuity (that the Dragoons worked for the Cappies from date X to Y). It just adds specificity. A <RETCON> would be saying, "Wolf's Dragoons worked for the CapCon from 3010-3014, but they were REALLY there on a secret retainer to House Davion to scout out Capellan defenses and tactics, reporting back to NAIS at regular intervals."

That would establish a whole new continuity, retroactively. Thus, a retcon.

>>51682512

Practically never.

However, IIRC there's some Mech variant that mounts a rear-facing LPL, which hits hard enough to really fuck up backstabbers, and can actually hit the damn things since it bypasses the Out of Front Arc/Secondary Target modifiers.

1-2 medium lasers isn't enough to discourage actual backbiters and thus they're wasted tonnage.

ASFs, however, are totally different. I know for a fact there's an ASF with a rear-mounted large MRM launcher, which NEA proved is pretty hilarious when you're making attack runs on a Warship that's already rolled to protect damaged armor. You fire your front weapons at the fresh armor, zoom past, and fire a bigass missile salvo at the damaged off-side armor. It's horrifically effective.

>>51682513
>already mentioned in 3067 material like Handbook House Marik.
Oh, should have just said that first instead of talking about Jihad era things.

>>51682513
>Like when TRO:3075 talked about Celestials that premiered in 3072 was that a retcon? No.

That's not even a good example. What if it went back and said Celestials were all geared for southpaws only?

>>51682629
Yes it is, because they premiered in JHS:3072 so when they were given full and proper TRO entries in TRO:3075 then by your logic, that's a retcon.

Your example doesn't work either. A correct example would be if TRO:3075 Upgrade set in 3150 said that all surviving Celestials were converted to southpaw configurations only by Blakist remnants in 3090.

Still not a retcon.

>>51682610
Late 67 is the beginning of the Jihad. The TRO is less than three years difference in universe date. HB:HM was published less than two years from 3058U in real time anyway. So it really doesn't make a bit of difference.

>>51682661
Whatever you have to tell yourself. But no, it's not a good example. It's nonsensical. FWL omni stuff got write ups like a decade before the TRO.

Different anon for the record.

>>51682602

>ASFs, however, are totally different. I know for a fact there's an ASF with a rear-mounted large MRM launcher, which NEA proved is pretty hilarious when you're making attack runs on a Warship that's already rolled to protect damaged armor. You fire your front weapons at the fresh armor, zoom past, and fire a bigass missile salvo at the damaged off-side armor. It's horrifically effective.

Well, you can theoretically do that, especially fluff-wise. In practice you're pointing your ass at the enemy ship, giving them the easiest targeting profile and weakest armour to shoot at. And in exchange you're shooting back with less than your forward firepower, with the shitty MRM range bands and inherent +1 to-hit penalty.

But for your larger point, having at least two MLs to the rear is a good idea in space since it can make enemy aircraft back off a bit to get out of their range if nothing else.

>>51682661
>Still not a retcon
If it looks like a retcon and sounds like a retcon and fits the definition of a retcon...

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Is the Shadow Hawk a good mech?

>>51682732
>fits the definition of a retcon.

>Retroactive continuity.
>Doesn't change the past retroactively

Doesn't fit. Basically this >>51682573

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Question:

Why did some of the Clans want to live peacefully with the Innersphere after the initial first contact war?

Was it merely a case of "We ain't strong enough to deal with this shit, let's just sit idly and begrudgingly as these barbarians are allowed to exist" or did some of the clans have a "Yak De Culture!" moment?

I ask because I find it strange that only a few years of war between clan and IS they'd disregard their whole societal philosophy.

Seriously, don't they hate everyone in the 'sphere with a passion, seeing them as less then human?

>>51682744

It's not fantastic. It's got a weapon for every range and is decently tough, so I tend to stick it on Lances as an all-rounder.

>>51682753
It does though. Not hard to understand.

>>51682744
Shads are... ok. They have a wonky movement bracket and mediocre firepower, but they don't do anything cripplingly wrong. I find them charming in a silly sort of way.

>>51682709
A decade before the TRO would be the original TRO:3058. It's not in there. Not in the FWL Field Manual either since it's set in the mid-3050's. Really not anywhere until we get 3060's books in the fanpro era which is what's being referenced.

I think you're thinking about something like the Perseus and not the Blackjack etc. licensed designs that everyone is arguing about.

If you got something from 1996 then by all means share it.

>>51682772

The Bears turned into Wardens during the 3058 material, where they were also quietly retconned from brutalising their uncooperative OZ Jaguar-style to being so awesomely Scandinavian the FRR just couldn't get enough of the new Bear overlords.

The Nova Cats had to play nice (or nicer than usual) as part of the Irece Prefecture deal.

The proper Wardens were not overly interested in war with the IS any way. Clan Wolf got dragged into the Invasion by popular vote. But after the Refusal War, all of the non-Bear, serious Wardens were stuck back in Clan space with no realistic way to invade so it didn't matter.

>>51682744
Assuming you mean the SHD-2H? It's a decent trooper - relatively tough, fairly mobile, runs cool, and it can contribute to the fight at all ranges - but using so much mass on an AC/5 means it's never going to win awards for knock-down power. If they'd mounted an LL instead of the AC/5, and used the weight saved for more heat sinks, it might be less 'meh', but stock SHD-2Hs mainly survive because there are almost always more dangerous 'Mechs for the bad guys to shoot at first.

Doesn't stop it looking cool as hell, though.

>>51682772
Because the whole Warden/Crusader split was basically "We must watch over and protect them" vs "We must conquer and rule them". The Invasion happened because the Crusaders got the pull in the Grand Council to green light it. If the Wardens had their way there probably wouldn't have even been any direct contact with the IS beyond Dragoon stuff.

>>51682781
>>51682810
>>51682835
Is it good for a first mech?

>>51682835

There are times when style counts, and the SHD has plenty of that.

I want to make a Nova Cat force from the Invasion period.

What would be "their" 'Mechs? I've looked in a couple TROs and found the Huntsman, Shadow Cat and Supernova, for instance.

>>51682882
Sure. Teaches solid movement skills, how to trooper well, and is a generally unthreatening ride so they'll survive for awhile.

>>51682882

Armour is OK, weapons are acceptable, speed is adequate, and it has some JJs but not enough that you'll go silly with them.

There are worse ways to start. If it's for someone new to the game I'd give them a Wolverine-6M instead to use.

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>>51682882
If it's good enough for Grayson Death Carlyle, it's good enough for you.

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>>51682839
>>51682828
So what you're saying is that the InnerSphere did not, in fact, win via song?

>>51682882
It's a pretty good "trainer" in many ways. All the major weapon types, and it jumps, and the overall versatility. The only lacking area there is it isn't any good for learning heat management, as it's oversinked.

And if in a campaign it can potentially be a very good starter, as campaigns for new folks often start with fighting light mechs and against those the Shadow Hawk's firepower is very good.

>>51682809

No it fucking doesn't. What part of >>51682573
is unclear? It's the 2+ syllable words, isn't it?

>>51682935
It's a shame that the clans weren't more zent-like. Beating clanners with the power of love and lousy pop music would have been much more fun

>>51682910

Well, if it's a front-line unit you can forget the Supernova. Shadow Cat and Huntsman have been retconned to 3003 and 3049 respectively despite originally showing up on Luthien.

Mostly they just liked faster 'Mechs with a bunch of energy weapons. And/or Targeting Computers. None of the original 3050 Omnis are particularly strongly associated with them, those were mainly the big four.

But just as an example, you could start with a Summoner/Thor, Mad Dog/Vulture, Huntsman/Nobori-Nin, Shadow Cat and Mist Lynx. Maybe trade the Mad Dog for a Nova/Black Hawk or Viper/Dragonfly so they're all jump-capable.

>>51682935
No, they won partly via dance, as Ulric Kerensky had the Crusaders dancing to his tune.

>>51683002
>big four
Did you mean three?

And of the original (16 I think) Clan omnis what were the most common models?
Like I know the Viper was seen with the Ghost Bears, the Fenris with the Wolves, the Warhawk and Dire Wolf with the Jaguars.

>>51682914
Hell, that's a solid point. Given a choice I'm going to put shots into a Griffin first or rush it with bugs and leave the shadow alone.

>>51683310

Big four. Jade Falcon, Wolf, Ghost Bear, and Smoke Jaguar.

The original 16 were commonly available in that everyone had them but with different overall and per-Clan numbers. The Nova was the rarest of the original lot all up, Wolves had the most Timber Wolves (bust still not very many), and so on.

We never really get a good look at Nova Cat forces the way we do other Clans, all we really have to go from is their two home-grown Omnis of the early Invasion era and a bias towards ER lasers.

>>51683310
>>51683437

Most common user by text:

Fire Moth: Ghost Bear
Mist Lynx: Smoke Jaguar
Kit Fox: Jade Falcon
Adder: Wolf
Viper: Ghost Bear
Ice Ferret: Wolf
Nova: Wolf (but still very rare)
Stormcrow: Smoke Jaguar
Mad Dog: Smoke Jaguar
Hellbringer: Jade Falcon
Summoner: Jade Falcon
Timber Wolf: Wolf
Gargoyle: Wolf
Warhawk: Smoke Jaguar
Executioner: Ghost Bear
Dire Wolf: Smoke Jaguar

>>51683437
I still find it funny the Nova was so rare and production was discontinued. It's really so good to fill out a star.

>>51682988
>>51683015
So there's nothing about Clanners defecting to go to IS?

>tfw no genetically perfect clanner gf

>>51683498
Pure speculation but if you had to list 4-6 of those that are the most common across the invading clans what would you list?

I'm guessing maybe the Summoner and Hellbringer might be two.

>>51683988
What you described is basically what happened to the Nova Cats. They fully defected and later were destroyed for it.

>>51683988

Only Trent and the Dragoons really.

There are some POWs like the Disgraced Elemental archetype in MW3E but it's pretty much unthinkable to the average Clanner.

>>51684000

Mad Dog is extremely wide-spread. Probably it, the Gargoyle, and the two you mention overall.

>>51684011
And the Dragoons don't count too much. Natasha was the only trueborn to survive to the invasion and she rejoined the Clan.
The rest were freebirths, and most of them had died between Anton's Revolt, that attack on Hesperus, and especially Misery.
By the time of the invasion most of the Dragoons were adopted war orphans and recruits.

>>51684000
Stormcrow/Ryoken. The TRO doesn't even bother listing who produces it, just says "...the solid performance of the Ryoken has assured this ’Mech a place in every Clan’s touman, with numerous factories scattered throughout the homeworlds."

Where can I find a list of Mech commonly used by Clan Jade Falcon during the Clan Invasion and Civil War eras?

>>51684118
there's all of those Random Assignment Tables in the Wars of Reaving Supplemental, near the end.

>>51684008
>were destroyed for it.

More like they were destroyed for failing to defect a second time.

>>51684118
It's called the Thor. Grab a double handful and salt lightly with elementals.

>>51682988
You have terrible taste

>>51684154
Thanks. All that was comming to the top of my head was Thor, Loki, Mad Cat, Vulture, Cougar and Shadow Cat and that's because its what you face when taking on Clan Jade Falcon in MW4: Mercs.

>>51684011
>>51684063
Wolf's Dragoons sound interesting.

What would be the sourcebooks to start with to learn more about them?

>>51683988
>tfw no genetically perfect clanner gf
>wanting a chick who's fucked literally dozens of her actual siblings
No thanks m8

>>51684118

Clan Invasion: Uller, Thor, Loki are by FAR the most common three designs. CJF doesn't have a bias toward any single medium design: the Ryoken and Black Hawk appear in roughly equal numbers, followed closely by the Dragonfly. They likewise don't seem to have an intrinsic weight toward any specific assault design, though it feels like Masakaris and Executioners appear most often.

>source: Jade Falcon Sourcebook.

Civil War era: There's less data on the sheer numbers of designs for this era, mostly because "phonebooks" like the source above that list the entire military Mech-by-Mech stopped being published. In general, it seems like the Uller is heavily supplemented by the Cougar and Fire Falcon. Mediums are heavily supplemented by the Black Lanner**. Heavies are heavily supplemented by the Night Gyr, and assaults are heavily supplemented by the Turkina.

>source: lots o stuff, TROs 3058 and 3060 mostly.

**The Shadow Cat isn't listed as having spread heavily to CJF, though they do have access to them. The Shadow Cat *II*, however, is a CJF-native design. It's also Jihad-era.


Also, never, ever trust either video games or RATs to tell you what's the most common. Some RATs are...OK. The majority are not, however, and without a ton of in-depth research that nobody is going to agree with, there's no way to tell which are good and which are bad.

>>51684324

The Wolf's Dragoons Sourcebook would probably be a good starting point.

>>51684454
>>source: Jade Falcon Sourcebook.

Actually, has anyone gone line-by-line through the CJF and Wolf phonebooks to get the frequency of the various designs? I mean, somebody MUST have, back in the usenet days, but I'll be damned if I can track that sort of thing down, and I may spend the evening re-doing exactly that project.

>>51684324
no, they don't. They are actually one of the worst factions in the game, showcasing everything wrong with the fluff
They are good guys with lotsa power and only bad guys oppose them

Stay away from the big Merc units, they are all shit tier

>>51684324
>muh renegade clanners

why does this particular shitpile draw so many flies?

>>51684484
Oh stop, you're so silly.

>>51684492

All the piloting advantages, none of that stupid "honor and zell hurrr" shit.

Real humans don't fight in ways that practically guarantee they're going to get killed.

>>51684492
Why the hate?

>>51684470

Not in terms of absolute numbers but for the Wolves, it's Ice Ferret, then Adder, then Gargoyle for how often a given design will show up.

>>51684588
this^^^

also, I like it when scifi does the cultural exploration and merging stuff. I like seeing enemies come to understand each other and even... embrace each others' cultures.

>>51684588

>All the piloting advantages, none of that stupid "honor and zell hurrr" shit.

So why not play Clan Ghost Bear, which literally does exactly that?

The Wolves kinda did at first too, honured Zell until someone else broke it but after Vlad took over they went full MUH HONOURZ.

>>51684598
>it's Ice Ferret, then Adder, then Gargoyle

Wow, then it's even more bullshit fiat than I thought that the Wolves weren't laughed off the first actually defended planet they encountered.

>>51684588
>Real humans don't fight in ways that practically guarantee they're going to get killed.

You can't be serious.

Is he serious? Anybody? Is nobody going to mention the giant chunks of human history where people did precisely that?

Different anon here. I was the one who had the "wut iz retcon" argument last year, and OH MY GOD ANONS, once a year is TOO OFTEN.

>>51682976
>>51682573
>That would establish a whole new continuity, retroactively. Thus, a retcon.
The word "continuity" is often used when distinguishing alternate universes, but it is not limited to that. The way the word "retcon" uses "continuity" is more closely related to the phrase "continuity error."

If you're watching a show and a character has a badge on their left shoulder, and then the show cuts to a shot where the badge is on their right shoulder, and there's nothing in the shot or the plot to justify the movement from one shoulder to the other, then that's a "continuity error." If the production staff catch the error and make a new clip showing the badge being taken off one shoulder and put on the other, then they have made a new piece of continuity.

>>51684617

The Clan invasion as written makes no sense thanks to the numbers of planetary militia that are supposed to exist. The forces bid would struggle to overcome their artillery forces, much less deal with conventional fighters and tanks.

But then the same can be said for IS forces invading other worlds, so whatever. Try not to think about it too much.

>>51684650
>Is nobody going to mention the giant chunks of human history where people did precisely that?

No, because those sort of things never happened, and you can't prove otherwise.

>>51684650

>Is nobody going to mention the giant chunks of human history where people did precisely that?

What do you mean "chunks," NEA? It's the entirety of human history, including conflicts that are running right now.

>>51684671
Battle of Thermopylae

>>51684608
>even.... embrace
Read that in Kirk's voice.

>>51684608
>even.... embrace
Read that in Kirk's voice.

Honestly the Bears just seem impossible to really get into. They're boring. Their books are awful (out maneuvering the Wolves in a mobile fight).

Dead Clans like the Jaguars, Vipers and Cats are 10x more interesting. The Falcons are the gift that keeps giving. Even the Wolves have always been more fun.

The Bears really are one of those factions that seems to have nothing really to draw you in except "they never lose."

And in some regards they're annoying, like how they're big on "watching and waiting" and yet that never works against them.

>>51684589
Because it's been attracting retards for 20 years

>>51684484
>>51684492
>>51684588
I always found them interesting at first due to the "tribe" or caravan kind of feel they had, moving about as one big horde on contracts and being insular and protective of their little community. From the beginning they felt like an expeditionary force surviving on its own until help arrived. There was an air of mystery until the Clan Invasion, and a sense of being a little mini-faction standing aside from the Great Houses.

Come the Invasion they got a cool reveal. Got some new gear (although I felt all the Clantech stuff was a it much. I mean iron wombs, factories to make omnitech, elementals, really?) and got to put a new feather in their cap at Luthien.

But honestly, I felt they should have died in the Jihad. Been whittled down to a rump regiment at most, and then that force die to a man helping defeat the Blakists.

Surviving past Natasha, past Jaime, past Outreach, even past Maeve... They feel pointless now.

>>51685063
Come on man, what makes Dragoon players retards? We can't all want to play the Forgotten Worlds League.

>>51684997
It's hard to pin down why I like the Nova Cats, but they've got a charm most of the other Clans don't.

The Jags are just plain fun, as are the Vipers.

I really wish Ice Hellion were still around, they've got the same flavor that makes the Jags, Vipers, and Falcons great.

The other clans are all shit-tier.

>>51685095
The attempts to recapture the lightning in a bottle that was the original goons always fell flat. Church and Annie don't have the same spunk as Nasty K.

As far as survival, that was ordained all the way back in the beginning of the DA. Not too much they could change.

>>51685168
the fire mandrills and Blood spirits were fun, too

>>51685168
DA Falcons kinda suck. Half of them have fallen back into pre-Revival political faggotry and the other half are Malvina mongrels.

Nova Cats were pretty cool in the Serpent era but by the DA they're kinda dipping way too far in the mystic end of things. Well, the ones that are still alive anyway.

>>51684997
Every single Bear war since the Invasion has just been a bad joke about poking a sleeping bear.

>>51685196
The Fire Mandrills never do anything *and* they don't have any real style, they just slap-fight among themselves.

Blood Spirits just slowly fade away over the centuries.

>>51685214
Yeah, DA Falcons are whatevs. I actually got into the Nova Cats via the Spirit Cas, and I don't really like the ones that joined the Republic or stayed with the Dracs. They have their moments post-Refusal, but their overall direction was kinda dumb.

I've always been of the opinion that there were too many Clans to begin with, and that they weren't distinct enough. For example, the Goliath Scorpions and Nova Cats are both clans that like energy weapons, accuracy, and visions.

My group has been playing with TRO 3039 this entire time. The store owner is starting an event campaign, knocking us up from Succession Wars to Civil War era. Players are will be on two sides. Inner Sphere vs Clans. I'm choosing Inner Sphere, because I'm a Lyran Commonwealth fanatic. What should I expect from the Clan players.

My brother seems to have already posted in this thread since this post >>51684118 is telling me it was made by me when I made no such post and the computer is shared by the entire household. So I at least now know where he plans to go.

>>51685328
>You're a Lyran
>He's a Falcon

This will end in blood.

>>51685322

But then they went and got rid of all the interesting Clans in the Reavings so that all that remains are Clan Sensible Snake, Clan BFF of Sensible Snake, Clan Scientist Man and Clan We Use Vehicles.

20 sounded like a nice round number before they had to actually flesh them out, I guess. That and the writers have never been particularly inventive.

>>51685322
>There were too many Clans to begin with, and that they weren't distinct enough

I don't even remember mentions of there being so many fucking clans in the original material. It was like, there were the invading clans and then also there used to be Widowmaker which was absorbed into the Wolves. Adding all those extra homeworlders was a mistake. They didn't even do anything until the Jihad.

>>51685357
I think you mean Clan We Use Vehicles Mk II

Clan We Use Vehicles are spheroids now.

>>51685347
Enlighten me. My only knowledge of the game comes from MechCommander 2 and MechWarrior 4 and its expansions. I assume a lot of bad blood between Falcons and Lyrans.

>>51685425

Falcons invaded the Lyran Commonwealth and BTFO them every time they fight.

Even technical """""wins""""" like in the FCCW are just the Lyrans stopping the Falcons from fucking them up as badly as they otherwise would have, not really winning in terms of planets gained or enemy units destroyed.

Falcons are almost as bad as the Bears. They do suffer losses where the Bears don't, but those get conveniently forgotten just in time for hostilities to resume.

>>51685425
Given how CJF took quite a bit of Lyran space during the invasion? Yeah.

>>51685425
All you gotta do is look at a map. The Falcons are to the Lyrans what the Jags used to be to the Dracs.

Every bit of Lyran on Clan war that wasn't an SLDF sidequest was Lyrans vs. Falcons. This carries on for a hundred years straight into the Dark Age.

>>51677696
Jesus, that is some weapons grade autism right there.
Next thing he'll say is that Amaris did nothing wrong.

>>51685491
>>51685495
>>51685498
God damn. So this is my chance to 'rewrite history', since this campaign wont be forced to follow the exact events?

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So, is this a good army for a medium sized mercenary group, primarily made up of ex-FedCom and ex Draco soldiers? Idea was that it was founded some time during the Fourth Succession War, and that they just so happen to be pulling garrison duty on one of the worlds where the clan is going to come in guns blazing.

All the mechs are from TRO 3039, because I felt like a good rule of thumb is that mercenaries would be at least a generation behind in terms of military technology, because buying junkers and milsurp is cheaper than actually investing in top o' the line hardware.

There's also two platoons worth of troops for general security detail and garrison duty that aren't listed.

I assume that they can cram all of this into one or, at most, two dropships/transports.

How'd I do? Is it lore friendly?

>>51685537
Well no. Because it happens during the Civil War. You're at least 12 years too late to rewrite anything.

Also during the Civil War there isn't a ton of fighting between CJF and the LA. LA's too busy getting BTFO'd by the Suns and ye olde Germans learned the hard way long ago about fighting a war on two fronts.

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>>51684470
>and I may spend the evening re-doing exactly that project.

Fuck it. I just did. Here's the raw data, going line-by-line through the entire Mech/Elemental/ASF unit rosters from the CJF Sourcebook. I'll total stuff up into a pretty Excel file in a bit.

Also, I totally forgot about the damned Solamha units running IS and SLDF gear. Fucked up my nice formatting on my tally sheet.

>>51685537
If you don't have Sharon Bryan building static ground based defenses without any anti-air, despite our lord and savior ADAM STEINER, giving her bucketloads of ammunition, then what's the point?

>>51685609
Hmph, and they said I was mad for suggesting the Summoner get Ubiquitous.

>>51685585
Ah, right. I apologize. I meant Clan Invasion era. I typed Civil War era because my brother was talking about it while I wasn't paying attention. Pretty sure the campaign is Clan Invasion anyways.

TROs 3039, 3050 and 3058 are the only legal TROs and the store owner said that I will be working more closely with the Federated Suns player since we're suppose to be the Federated Commonwealth during the campaign.

>>51685609

thats a lot of kit foxes god damn

>>51685552
My guess is you're using a bunch of intro box minis, which is cool, but won't be really lore friendly. Like you wouldn't really find two old functioning Clints in the same unit, unlikely two Fedcom Valks unless they're deserters, etc. That old piece of shit primitive Rifleman is going to be a bitch to find parts for too. In general, the common unseens are the most common machines too. Like you would be more likely to have a Warhammer than an Awesome, an Archer instead of a Catapult, that kind of thing.

Multiple battalions mean big dropships too, because you likely won't have more than two or three collars available on whatever transport you hire.

>>51685650
Well, you might. But chances are you won't. The Clan Invasion is a really bad event for everyone involved. Without the Battle of Tukayyid and the truce, the IS may have eventually stopped the Clans before they reached Terra -- but barely, and would have taken horrific losses doing so.

This is a force that went straight for the throat of the Combine and very nearly took over Luthien were it not for a massive push by the IS, along with some critical intel on machines, tactics, and more from the WD.

>>51685719
I see...

So far it seems there's 4 Inner Sphere vs 2 clans, but my group has like...4 more players who haven't taken a side yet.

How do shields and handheld weapons interact?

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>>51685715
>wouldn't really find two old functioning Clints in the same unit
Were Clints not produced very much? Are they rare?

>unlikely two Fedcom Valks unless they're deserters
That's the idea. Most of these guys got sick and tired of fighting under uncaring superiors over some shitty wedding present a bigwig presented that got the politicians buttmad.

So two guys, one a FedCom and one a Drac, set aside their differences and started a merc company together, because they both agreed that both the pay and work environment would be better if they were their own bosses. They've been at it for fifteen years or so and have become close friends.

>That old piece of shit primitive Rifleman is going to be a bitch to find parts for too.
I just picked that one because it had nothing but lasers, and being a merc organization, laser boats would be preferred. And it's not like they cant just jury rig some shit up on the rifleman.

>In general, the common unseens are the most common machines too. Like you would be more likely to have a Warhammer than an Awesome, an Archer instead of a Catapult, that kind of thing.
Good point. I may replace some with more unseens.

I like to think that after the Fourth SW, they were involved with the bullshittery in Rasalhague, like the Ronin Wars and such. And up until 3050 they were sitting pretty pulling pirate hunting jobs, garrison duty for worlds with shitty militias but rich coffers, ect.

Then when the Clans come, they hold out during the first couple of battles. But after losing near sixty percent of their forces, they cut whatever contracts they had and pull out and retreat to FedCom space.

After recuperating their strength. they jump on the offer for being hired to help out with Operation BULLDOG while the rest of the Star League go do Operation Serpent.

There they take less causalities than their previous encounter with the clans, but it's still a heavy loss, coming in at something like thirty to fourty percent

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>>51684588
>>51684650
>>51684690
inb4 not real people

Honestly you'd have trouble pointing to a period in history without stuff like this. The clans are pretty tame in comparison because their form of MUH HONOUR actually serves a purpose in of preserving useful material (but not necessarily lives).

>>51685988
>Are they rare?
Extremely.

>set aside their differences and started a merc company together
If you desert, that gets you labeled as a pirate at best. You certainly won't get hired by the state you ran away from with a state machine either.

>And it's not like they cant just jury rig some shit up on the rifleman.
When absolutely nobody makes the primitive components you need to keep it running and hasn't in over five hundred years, yeah it kinda does mean that.

Also you just said this was supposed to be the Invasion, but you're talking like Bulldog is already past which does put you in the Civil War

>>51685988
>Were Clints not produced very much? Are they rare?
They're rare and had issues with parts being even rarer.

>I just picked that one because it had nothing but lasers, and being a merc organization, laser boats would be preferred. And it's not like they cant just jury rig some shit up on the rifleman.
Go with the Hanse Special, aka the -4D.

File: CJF Compiled Data.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>51685609

OK, here's the compiled data in a PDF, in case somebody wants to strip numbers into an Excel file and fuck around with percentages and so forth (or, y'know, build an accurate RAT).

I'll post it in an image in a second, so mobile types don't have to worry about the PDF.

A quick note: I'm almost certainly off by 1-2 Mechs across the entire project just through sheer attrition, but I can't see having missed more than ~3 in total. Also, I did make an important change: the number of Mad Cats is increased by 1, and the number of Mad Dogs is dropped by 1. The CJF Sourcebook lists Aiden Pryde as piloting a Mad Dog, when we have incontrovertible evidence he piloted a Mad Cat: novels always trump sourcebooks. Aside from that one instance, I've tried for 100% accuracy from sourcebook to compilation.

>>51685988
>Were Clints not produced very much? Are they rare?
They're rarer than most designs and are incredibly difficult to maintain and keep in parts, something a mercenary unit would be keenly aware of.

>I just picked that one because it had nothing but lasers, and being a merc organization, laser boats would be preferred. And it's not like they cant just jury rig some shit up on the rifleman.
Yeah... no. Unfortunately, Primitive gear requires their own armor, structure, engine and cockpits. Jury rigging isn't going to be enough, since the only Rifleman parts you're going to find are for a mech 15 tons heavier.

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>>51686071

And image.

>>51686071
Thanks, NEA.
We appreciate all the hard work.

>>51686072
>>51686064
>>51686061
sounds like it's back to the drawing board in terms of lore of the org.

thanks for the input guys. Im just doing this for shits and giggles anyhow.

anything else to add?

>>51686172
the lack of Griffins, Thunderbolts, and especially archers when those are all merc mainstays is pretty odd

>>51686172
>anything else to add?

Download some of the old merc scenario books and flip through them to get a feel what their layout is. Or just the original Mercs handbook. The nice thing about the old books is they give full rosters of machines for groups so you can get a handle on their composition better than some of the modern random vagueries and tech upgrade percentages that lack actual chassis.

>>51686263

So, what? If anon isn't willing to go drop $100 on some unseens he shouldn't be playing Clan Invasion mercs?

>>51673046
>>51673190
I have concerns about how long those will stay in the air once they open fire.
Because with that much gun they probably wouldn't need to stay up for long.

>>51685609
>>51686071
>>51686093

Please repost these in the next thread, since I'm not going to be in a place where I can save them until tomorrow afternoon. My phone is full.

>>51686357

Not really, no.

>>51684470
>>51685609

Did the Wolf count, Front-Line, 'Mech only:

Fire Moth: 3
Mist Lynx: 11
Kit Fox: 3
Adder: 112

Viper: 8
Ice Ferret: 182
Phantom: 20
Pouncer: 13
Nova: 8
Stormcrow: 9

Mad Dog: 18
Hellbringer: 4
Linebacker: 17
Summoner: 8
Timber Wolf: 59

Gargoyle: 131
Naga: 38
Warhawk: 5
Executioner: 9
Dire Wolf: 6

>Elemental Star Commander Kay Parker

l-lewd

>>51686380
Once this thread drops off the board 4chan will archive it for 3 days. (I think it used to save things for a week?) Just save the thread number and look it up later if you have to. Or click the old thread link in the next btg.

https://boards.4chan.org/tg/archive

>>51686420

Eh, he should repost them anyways. So should >>51686419.

40 posts remaining till the thread cap isn't really enough to have a good discussion about stuff. And all of that is actually really good data.

>>51673190
They're pretty much the old unseen samurai, a sexy machine.

>>51686457

The only real surprise when counting the Wolf forces was that they had more Gargoyles than Adders, I had it fixed in my head that it was the other way around.

Force composition is noticeably heavier in Alpha and Beta Galaxies, but that's mostly due to oodles and oodles of Gargoyles in some stars. There are literally stars with 3 Gargoyles, a Timber Wolf, and something else. And the Gargoyle is technically an assault, but...

Gamma and Delta Galaxy goes in the opposite direction, lots of Stars with 2-3 each of the Ice Ferret and Adder.

>>51686419
>Elemental Star Commander Kay Parker

What's the lewd reference? I don't get it.

>>51686522

Google it, anon.

I assume there are other similar references in the character names but that was the only one that was so blatant.

>>51685767
Okay, so that'll cover the other two major clans, and whichever IS state hasn't been picked yet... I guess number four gets Rasalhague and a death sentence?

>>51686071
You got at least one typo, "Standard Omnifighters".

>>51686419
>Kay Parker

Go to church, anon.

>>51686420
Or, y'know, go to 4plebs and look it up for a year or two...

http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/

>>51686420
Just...just stop namefagging, dude.

>>51686752

That is perhaps the least important thing on the page, though.

>>51686804

I've found that files there don't stick around for very long.

>>51684997
Man, losing the Vipers hurt (and, to be completely honest, losing the Mandrills hurt too), but the Cats? That broke me. Of course now I'm free to live the post-faction life with so many others, but at what cost? At what cost?

About the only thing that would make me smile setting-wise is if the Bears and the snakes get into some kind of ugly total war that leaves them both bleeding to death, but that's coming from a dark place. Or, you know, public floggings of certain people IRL.

>>51686675
Well, there's:

Inner Sphere:
Lyran Commonwealth (Me)
Federated Suns
Unnamed Mercenaries A
Unnamed Mercenaries B

vs

Clans:
Jade Falcon
Smoke Jaguar

>>51687008

>About the only thing that would make me smile setting-wise is if the Bears and the snakes get into some kind of ugly total war that leaves them both bleeding to death, but that's coming from a dark place.

The 3150ish stuff has pretty heavily telegraphed the Bears as about to come out swinging against the Dracs, who are focused on their other border right now.

Given the status quo I doubt the Dracs will be anything more than a 5mm roadbump on the Bears' path to a crushing victory but I guess with Benny gone there's a somewhat greater chance the Dracs won't just be a punching bag for Da Burrs.

Bears have all the advantages so it would be extremely strange for them not to cruise it home though.

>>51687008
tell me about why you love the Cats, anon. I know they have a dedicated following but I've never been much for any of the Clans.

>>51687008
Spirit Cats are still the Nova Cats. They're basically like if the old Goliath Scorpion seekers all splintered off and went on a most excellent adventure.

I'm oogling the Warhansa mechs for a ComStar/WoB Level II, but I'm a bit uncertain what to get. Any suggestions for a Warhansa Level II that could do 3025, 3050, and 3060? I know I want a Black Knight, but other than that I'm open to ideas.

>>51687211
Escorpion Imperio is almost the same, sort of, kind of, not really.

>>51687307
Play WoB, comstar is for fags

>>51687773
No Wobbies in 3025, anon. Hence "ComStar/WoB"

>>51687310
Not at all. Escorpion Imperio is what you get when a badly mauled Clan decides that life as an ultra-minor Periphery state is better than being annihilated.

>>51687803
Effectively no ComStar in 3025 either, they didn't let their military assets come out to play until Tukkayid. In 3025, your choices as ComGuard add up to "patrol around the HPG station" and "advisor to the deniable assets being sent off to actually do something".

>>51687307

The only other ComStar 'Mechs I could easily spot there were the King Crab and Highlander. So I dunno, King Crab, Highlander, Marauder, Black Knight, Warhammer, Griffin, Phoenix Hawk?

>>51687917
Escorpion Imperio sounds rad, how many of the destroyed clans did something like that?

>>51687948

ComStar openly deploys the Com Guard at the end of the Warrior Trilogy, anon.

>>51687977

Scorpions and kinda the Ravens, they took over the Outworlds Alliance because that totally makes sense.

>>51687917
To be fair, all the Clans before the Invasion

>>51687982
Not him but they get deployed to HPG guard duty, mostly because they weren't a secret anymore after the wedding. They also did the NAIS attack but that was falseflag, not open.

>>51688008
>To be fair, all the Clans before the Invasion
*were ultra minor periphery states already. They just had absurdly large militaries proportionally.

>>51686093

does this mean the entirety of CJF at this point in time only owns 850 omnimechs? i feel like im getting the scale or what exactly you're counting wrong

Regarding the Trebuchet, I'm surprised there isn't a variant which combines the TBT-5J and TBT-5S for both JJs and SRMs

>>51688109

The phone books listed the Clan units that were involved in the invasion. Whatever they had back on the homeworlds was not listed. But as far as the IS was concerned, yep.

>>51688017

Yes, but the Clans at least kept the tech the SLDF took with them to the homeworlds, and improved on it. IIRC, the Escorpion Imperio is having issues getting basic bug-grade mech production going. Somewhat of a difference there, yes?.

>>51688174

alright so that was their invasion numbers not clan total, thanks

>>51688209
Weirdly they apparently were also able to steal shit like orbital materials foundries. Because I guess nobody notices if you take a immobile, multi-trillion dollar factory in space.

>>51688109
This was right after Tukayyid so they weren't exactly in peak form. Still, consider that the Falcons only had about two and a half shitty Homeworld rocks worth of holdings. Raising nine regiments of mechs from that is pretty impressive.

>>51688269
Who was gonna stop them. Remember the Dracs collectively shitting their pants as the Exodus fleet gathered over New Samarkand?

>>51688282

i like Jade Falcon and their schtick

>>51686093
I just noticed something, not a single one of the four second line mechs that are featured in that very book, the Hellhound, Baboon, Kraken and Vixen, are there.

>>51688269

The SLDF had some time to get organised and round up experts in various fields.

The Scorpions got run out of town with what they had in their pockets, more or less.

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I could use some opinions on things.
I got a player who loves the clan Nova / Blackhawk. Well as it is noted above, it's kind of rare. My player has done so well that I wanted to promote him to a Mad Cat. His idea: his own weapon spread that mimicked the Nova perfectly, added 5 more DHS to the Mad Cat frame and with some of the left over tonnage added a single ERLL. He was left with about 1.5 tons of unclaimed weight as there was no more space on the mech.
I'm willing to let him do this, but I wondered what anybody else thought about this.

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>>51678947
Thanks for the clarification earlier, /btg/.

>>51689107
Is the mech on the bottom left an Avatar?

>>51689133
Yeah.

The doodles are a bit shoddy, but at least you were able to recognize it.

>>51689182
I'm no art critic (at lease anymore since the lawsuit and restraining order) but for "shoddy" doodles those are pretty neat. I like.

>>51689051

I'd do 2 ER LLs, 10 ER MLs, 5 JJs, a Flamer and 4 DHS really.

Well, if I wasn't going to run the A. But I'd probably just run the A.

>>51689228
I actually used MegaMek and stripped the A variant to see if my player could get what they wanted, and it all barely fit. I don't know if there is enough space available for your idea.

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>>51689250

There is.

>>51689107

i dig the lobo

>>51689320
I must have miscalculated because in using the A variant I think I started off with more DHSs in spaces that you did. My player has IIRC 25 DHS which makes doing that 12 ERML strike less of a threat than the old Nova. Good show.

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New thread since things are winding up.
>>51689372