/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

Repeat from last bread:

Megaanon, if you're here, could we get the Planeshift races added to 5etools? They are a WotC product, after all.

>>51643009
I actually really like the Zendikar Vampires for PCs to use as a race. Not OP, but enough flavor to justify taking it.

The "make free nulls" thing is kinda wonky but still neat.

Is Lore bard or abjuration wizard better for making an anti-caster caster?

>>51643145
Lore Bard. Just as good as an Abju Wizard except he's also useful when enemy casters aren't around, unlike the wizard.

Ok looking at the Favored Soul im left wandering how to best optimize it. What spells will benefit from metamagic the most from the Cleric spell list that will let it do things that shine? Any thoughts on this you noble anons of /tg with your mighty wit and excellent personal hygiene?

>>51643209
Why be a Favored Soul when you could be a Theurgist?

>>51643209
>Twinned Spell Animate Dead
Let's talk about spell slot efficiency.

>>51643241
Isn't there a class that gets a bonus to their animate dead so they last longer? I never bothered fucking with it because my DM gets pissy as fuck when people start shitting up the encounters with conjured monsters/minions/etc.

I blame my friend who used to constantly have 10+ underlings and demand individual turns for them. DM does not allow that stuff anymore.

>>51643209
TWINNED CURE WOUNDS. Stretch your healing slots out twice as far. Quicken Cure Wounds is also good for healing in the middle of your turn while still having your action free for a cantrip or melee attack.

Guiding Bolt is a good pickup simply because it's Chromatic Orb that doesn't require components (an imposes disadvantage), so you can use it if disarmed/stripped of posessions.

Shield of Faith and Spiritual Weapon are amaze even without meta-magic.

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>>51643230
Because Theurge is legitimately broken and gives high level domain features way too early. I've never seen a DM who knew what they were doing actually allow the class in a mid-high level game.

>>51643271
It's pretty funny.

>So because you're a wizard you're way better at praying to God than clerics are and your god gives you their level 17 ability at level 14


To be fair, most games won't hit that far, but even at level 5, a Tempest Theurgist being able to shit out flat 48 damage lightning bolts gets silly.

>>51643209
Twinned healing word/heal
Big ol single target damage like harm or something

>>51643254
Necromancy Wizard give all your undead extra HP and +Your Proficiency to it.

>>51643296
Like I said, its a flatout BROKEN class and no DM who knows what they're doing would allow it. It's got all the problems of the most broken multi-class combinations, but doesn't even require multiclassing.

>>51643329
It's not broken in and of itself, but it becomes broken because of terrible Domains that exist.

Like if it just let you pick up a few Cleric spells ala Lore Bard picking up spells from other class lists, it'd be fine. But instead it lets you combine all the power of being a wizard with domain abilities. And then for some reason gives them to you sooner than a pure cleric would get them.

Hopefully though as some anons have speculated, all these UA classes are just being tested for feedback and will be rolled out in a PHBII at some point, properly balanced.

What are some top memebuilds? I keep hearing goodshit about Halfling Diviner.

>>51643145

Lore Bard, for that Counterspell, Circle of Power and Silence.

>>51643380

>Pick Theurgist Cleric, Arcana Domain
>Pick up Wish and shit at level 14
>Multiclass into a different full caster (say, another cleric for double domains) or a half caster for 6 levels, and still get Wish

>>51643477
Does circle of power give you help against breath weapons? Are dragon breath weapons magical effects?

>>51643473
Nuclear Druid, Halfling Diviner with Lucky Feat, horsecasting bard.

So one of my players has expressed interest in getting a whip dagger, though it sounds kind of special snowflake. D6 finesse weapon with reach, it's almost a better shortsword except it isn't light. The player is a rogue.

I'm planning on if they ever go to waterdeep they can meet a far traveler carrying it, and if he wins in a 1 on 1 duel he can have it, but it won't be easy, as I'll probably build a fighter with the same level as him.

Basically I'm asking if giving this weapon to the Rogue would make anything much better for him.

>>51643508
Horsecasting was dismantled; the dream is dead :<

>>51643512
Gives him better reach on his sneak attacks, the ability to trip/disarm people and finesse. It's pretty good. It's not busted by any means. Hell, I'd probably let him Castlevania-swing off of chandeliers and corners with it.

>>51643512
Rogues already don1t depend on weapon damage dice. Giving him 1 more average damage isn't going to break anything.

>>51643504

reckon they're not caster weapons, unless you mean draconic sorcerers.

I'd say not magical effect.
>>51643508
>horsecasting bard

elaborate please

Where can I get some cheap but OK minis in a bundle?

>>51643512
Not especially. Rogue benefits most from dual-wielding and he can't do that if it isn't light. It'll lessen the effectiveness of his sneak attacks. All he's getting is range, and he could get that much better with throwing weapons.

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>>51643523
Well fuck it. I can still play as a vending machine in Eclipse Phase.

>>51643548
Depends how cheap you want, but look at board games like Descent, the D&D, Warhammer Fantasy, Conan etc games for costly but big bundles of assorted figures (can be painted easily too)

>>51643548
D&D board games come to about 2 dollars per mini when buy those. If you are lucky you can find the MTG board game in clearance sections or so I've been told

>Leomund's Secret Chest goes into ethereal
>Wall of Force does too
>Turn Undead

BE THE GHOSTBUSTER

>>51643009
To chime in on the subject

Please fix the Divine Strike damage types, cleric domain features, to be correct.
Also, some spell says tart instead of target, but i find that funny.

>>51643548
Childrens toys work, but the scale is off. Knights, pirates, skeletons, cowboys, all easy to find.

>>51639428

Saw reply in last threat too late. I want the character to use a greataxe the entire time though, and you don't get proficiency until 3rd level.

Any way around that besides multiclassing or variant human?

>>51643734
Hobgoblins get martial weapon proficiency i think.

>>51643734
Just use it anyway without the +2 bonus for the first two levels - not such a big deal when baddies have AC 8-12, and keenly await the power boost at third level!

Asking illusionist wizard question again.

1) Can I use malleable illusion on simulacrum or creation spells?

2) What is the best illusion to use with Phantasmal Force? I want to inflict as many condition as possible on the enemy.

>>51643607
What about Myconids?

Should I get a Halberd and take PAM on GWM Greatsword wielding Oath of Vengeance pally?

I'm already out damaging everyone else

>>51643858
Goombas, or toads?

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What's the best class to have an archetype which has a beast companion the becomes stronger as they level?

>>51643883
I suppose, they're not really similar, but it's not like there's a high demand for mushroom people.
Mushroom Men was a better franchise than people gave it credit for.

>>51643889
Ranger

>>51643508
What is a nuclear druid?

>>51643889
Ranger? The one that does?
I wouldn't mind a more pet oriented artificer either though, the level is just asking to come early and be tinkered with as you level.

Ranger Beast master won't allow dragons right?

>>51643963
A shitty build that uses Magic Missile + class features that tacks on maximized damage dice and flat bonus damage to blow his wad for 1000 damage (at level 20)

>>51643889
Literally the Beast Conclave for the Revised Ranger.

>>51643963
Arcana Cleric 1/Twilight Druid X, because the Harvest Scythe d10s get applied to EACH dart of Magic Missile (this is a quirk of Magic Missile's wording, not of harvest scythe's)

>>51643964
>the feature is just asking to come earlier*

>>51643979
No, and dragon's make for shitty pets, being intelligent, supernatural apex predators.

>>51644017
*dragons, fucking phone.

>>51643979
No, especially not an actual dragon, even a wyrmling is too much early game.

If you wanted to design a 1/4 CR 'dragon' similar to existing ranger beast enclave options i'd be fine with the fluff though. Think komodo, not draconic.

>>51643985
Don't you need to spend more more harvest scythe d10s in order to add that to all the missiles?

>>51643523
>>51643540
ฺBard with Find Steed. When you cast spell that has the range of self, the horse also got it.

Cone of Cold is one such spell, too bad JC already said "no Self (area) spell". So it's a dead meme.

>>51644017
>Not wanting your own Arveiaturace

>>51643512
Give him an urumi and call it a day.
But as everyone else has said, rogues go off sneak attack dice rather than damage dice. The best part of the weapon is going to be the reach rather than the additional damage.

So /tg/, what would you say is...

The best tank?

The best ranged dps?

The best melee dps?

The best support?

>>51644101
>mmo terminology
but this is 5e not 4e

You're hired to redesign the alignment system. However, it must remain the 3x3 grid, because they're concerned otherwise they'd lose too large a percentage of grognard sales.

What do you replace it with?

Remember, your goal is to reduce grognardy and increase the depth and breadth of RP.

>>51644126
Those two aims are opposite

>>51644123
Ah, sorry. I'll rephrase it then?
What is an understood tier list so far? Classes that are really fun to play and effective at the same time?

>>51643985
>Literally the Beast Conclave for the Revised Ranger.
I like a good pet class but hate when they give such poor choices for pets, needs better design.

The black bear and panther seem worlds ahead of the other choices.

>>51644101
Wizard on all of them

>>51644145
Paladin, Bard, Wizard and Cleric are the best classes in this edition.

Everything else is just a shittier version of the above 4 (or simply ineffective)

>>51644101
>Tank
Paladin
>Ranged Dps
Battlemaster Crossbow Expert
>Melee dps
Oathbreaker PAM, GWM
>Support
Miles ahead Lore Bard

>>51644101
Best in what aspect? A number of classes and archetypes do various levels of those things in different ways.

>>51644159
What a lie, fighters are better at sustained combat than any of those.

>>51644101
>>51644145
>every thread until you like it

Everyone's about the same, being good most of the time at most things, and bad at a couple things, with 4 elements monk and PHB ranger being very mediocre

Don't listen to
>>51644157
Or
>>51644159

The first is memeing and the second is mad that not everyone does the same things

>>51644062
No, because you only roll damage for the spell once and all darts deal the same amount of damage. Crawford has confirmed that on twitter, because it works with the Wizard's 10th level evocation feature.

>>51644101
>The best tank?
Barbarian
>The best ranged dps?
Fighter
>The best melee dps?
Fighter
>The best support?
Wizard

>>51644171
No they aren't.

A Paladin can take PAM just like a Fighter can, and is capable of using his features and spells to sustain combat far greater than a Fighter spamming action surges.

>>51644175
Thank you. I'll wait and read the opinions that follow. Sorry if it's a common question.

>>51644145
Lore Bard
Paladin/Cleric/Wizard
[angry martial noises]
Garbage

In order

>>51644175
Eh? Abjuration Wizard and Bladesinger are the best tank.

Necromancer's skeleton army is the best ranged dps.

Polymorph/True Polymorph/Shape Change/Magic Jar make you the best melee dps.

Support is obviously Wizard best job (control count as support right?)

>>51644179
Barbarian is a terrible tank because he can't pull aggro or control the battlefield damage. Paladins have all kinds of abilities to take damage for other players and to initiate duels, etc.

Crossbow Fighter might be the best ranged DPS in a mid level game. Twilight Druid is better in high level games.

Paladin is the best melee DPS because of Smites (MUH RESOURCES REE)

Wizard... might be the best support. Lore Bard imo is still better.

>>51644207
>>51644206
>Nignogs forgetting that the best tank is in fact a well built Strong Independent Eldritch Knight who don't need no Int.

>>51644244
I would think that EK and Paladin are about equal for tanking, with the EK maybe slightly better

That said Everything else the Pally will do better

>>51644145
Everyone likes to pretend that ALL CLASSES R GUD in 5E, but Ranger and Monk are totally fucking garbage, Sorcerers are just terrible Wizards (again), and Warlocks are one-trick ponies (granted, it's a pretty good trick since Force damage is the best kind of damage) but boring.

Druids (specifically Moon druids) are amazing at low levels because of how wildshaping works, but they fall off in mid-to-high level play. Most people here claim that it's balanced because they only play low level games. 5E still has many of the same problems that 3.5 had where magic completely warps high level play and forces martials out of the spotlight. There's only so much "having more HP and attacks" can do to stay relevant. It's also fairly limiting from a design perspective when dealing with BBEG plots and motives, where your solution is to make more attacks with a pole-arm to fix the problem.

I actually am less impressed with clerics than I usually am, since Healing during combat has always been a trap, and beyond that, most of their role is delegated to party buffing and casting less-good wizard spells while getting to use gear. This is a schtick that Lore Bards do much better in this edition, but they're still better than non-casting classes.

tl;dr, Wizard/Bard/Cleric and Paladins are the best. The "best versions" of the other classes to no surprise use magic (Arcane Trickster Rogue for example)

>>51644207
Tactics in 5e don't matter; monsters are dumb and beat on whatever stands in their face. Barb absorbs the most damage and pulls aggro by existing. Pally may be better though by virtue of superior saves

Twilight Druid is UA

Fighter is best Melee DPS because 4 attacks and surges

Lore Bard may be better

>>51644336
>monsters are dumb and beat on whatever stands in their face

Your DM is terrible and you should call him out on it. Tactics definitely matter.

Also Druid absorbs more damage if you're judging a tank based on their HP soak ability.

>>51644311
But battlemaster is the best version of fighter, specifically because EK can't get high level magic shenanigans

>>51644358
Battlemaster is better in a proper team with synergy I think, but EK is better if you need to depend on yourself and have no idea what the DM is going to throw at you.

Everyone is different but flexibility is usually more valued in D&D than "I can roll more dice to hit things".

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>ITT we post things that piss you off more than anything

>player pisses off the other players by wasting time flirting with an npc
>player tries to use animal handling on an owl bear mid combat
>player tells me how he wants his character to advance story wise an then gets mad when it doesn't go exactly the way he wants it to
>player picks any other race than orc

seriously that last one pisses me off to no end, why do people do this?

>>51644311
UA Ranger is just fine, and monks do one, admittedly boring, thing well. Stunning repeatedly.
Paladins nova well, fighters out perform them in the second half of the long rest, at least if you do the correct 6-8 encounters, 2-3 short rest per long rest cycle.

Moon druid are still full casters with mobility and durability options, even at high levels.

>>51644424
>at least if you do the correct 6-8 encounters, 2-3 short rest per long rest cycle.
I've never met a DM that has more than two combats a day.

>>51644419
Go to bed, Metzen.

>>51644419
>orc.
At least it's not an elf. I suppose if they're going WAAAAUGH GW orc or butthurt "noble savage" wow orc all the time it can get old fast.

>Players all take utterly different concepts and approaches to problems and argue like fuck oocly and icly over everything and every single attempt at cohesion and they fly apart like oil and water in moments.

>Yet all still want to play the game, they just can't stand each other.

Every time.

>>51644443
This. Fighters are good in a vacuum. Too many players consistently beeline to full casters and the DM doesn't want to deal with half or three quarters of the party being useless with no abilities for the rest of the session, so he'll just toss two encounters at them or let them sleep so they have spell slots again.

If D&D was a video game and you needed to grind mobs for gold to save gold and shit, I'd play a fighter But with how every game I've ever been in lends to the DM allowing casters rest, or introduces bullshit enemies that are invisible/made out of gas/flying/etc that completely invalidate being a pure fighter, I'll probably never play one.

>>51644155
Black bear is 1/2 CR to the others' 1/4. Presumably they felt they had to offer some sort of bear. Either way, the sidebar offers guidelines on how to pick balanced companions, but if they can have a stronger exception or two, no reason you can't. But I wouldn't go above 1/2.

>>51644443
The solution is easy, the DM should pace the rest periods by encounter rate, rather than independently.

>>51644485
> If D&D was a video game and you needed to grind mobs for gold to save gold and shit

Why wouldn't you just play Necromancer as set skeleton as your farming bot?

>>51644499
It loses multi-attack anon, cutting the CR.

>>51644524
Too many skellies will crash the game.

>>51644419
>DM doesn't like things the players are doing in-game and punishes them with unavoidable penalties including disfigurement and death

>>51644556
Even worse

>DM doesn't like things the players are doing outside of the game and punishes them in game

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>>51644419
>dm throws 3+ plothooks at any opportunity (cumulative)
>whichever one you take first you're punished for not taking the others
>eventually he gets frustrated and bored so after you've attached and invested to some of them, he'll inform you that the end is coming past and you'll just have to skip past a bunch of things

>>51644534
Yeah, just saying the sidebar specifically says it's a safe choice to use 1/4 CR or less, Medium or smaller size and dealing no more than X damage with an attack, but black bear and ape don't meet both criteria already, so there's no need to feel like those are strict rules. Maybe you have a young axe beak that isn't quite Large yet or something.

>>51644419
You know what pisses me off? Pathfinder players "just trying out this dumb 5e thing"
>Seriously? No magic items from the first fight??
>Why would they call catgirls "tabaxi"? Where's the kitsune?
>walking diagonally on the grid costs double, everyone knows that
>the NPC cleric can't cast guards and wards? What level is he?
>prestige classes at level 3 are dumb
>how much HP does it have? Let me see the statblock

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>>51644604
>>how much HP does it have? Let me see the statblock

Actually triggered

The guy who made 5etools is GOAT.

How do I play as an Artificer without any class equipment? I didn't get any at the start and it looks like I'm not going to be able to build the Thunder Cannon in quite a while. I have insane stats in Dex and Int, but not much else. Do I just play as a shit fighter?

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>always think back to one anon's post about playing ganondorf as a warlock

>tfw permaDM and will never get to make some warcaster/tunnel fighter war/lock abomination that force punches everything

>>51644604
You forgot
> He cast a spell in melee! That should provoke AoO from the enemy!!
> Why can't I 5-foot step!! REEEEE

>>51644604
>any players ever
Nice try, but that's something players of every single roleplaying game do. We get it, you're offended games you don't like exist, but don't lie about shit.

>>51644654
Get out, Pathshitter.

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>>51644145
S Tier
>Lore Bards: They're basically wizards who also get a ton of skill proficiencies and can dip into other class's spell lists for the few things a wizard doesn't get.
>Wizard: Reality warping magic still breaks the game at high levels of play. Not as bad as in 3.5/Pathfinder, but they still have multiple spells which outright replace skills or cheat their way around entire encounters. Of course try to balance this in ANY WAY and grognards start screeching at you about how unfair you're being and how you're nerfing everything.

A Tier:
>Sorcerers: Wizards with way less versatility, but a bit more "raw power" due to how quicken spell and twinned spell can cheese some of the best things in the game to be even cheesier. Unfortunately this doesn't make up for the lost versatility, especially at lower levels.
>Clerics: Not as versatile as a wizard, but their spell list and domain powers are still very very good. Also gets healing magic.
>Paladins: A cleric that trades some magic ability for better melee ability and/or nova damage.

B-Tier:
>Non lore Bards: Strict downgrade from Lore Bard
>Druids: Crappiest spell list in the game as a class, wild shape sucks at higher levels and is a dumb gimmick at lower levels. "HURRDURR I TURN IN A FLEA TO INFILTRATE THE BAD GUYS HIDEOUT!"
>Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster: Magic versions of mundane classes, and thus instantly better.
>Warlocks: One spammable magic attack and some magic gimmicks, not nearly as good Wizards though.

>C-Tier:
>Fighters: They put out easily resisted physical damage... whoo...
>Rogues: They put out easily resisted physical damage SOMETIMES (sneak attack conditions) and have skills that can easily be replaced by spells
>Barbarians: A fighter with more HP and less nova damage

D Tier:
>Monks: Strictly inferior fighters who get somewhat better saves at the higher levels.

F-Tier:
>Rangers: May bump up a tier or 2 if the DM is allowing UA content.
>Psionics, for shit flavor.

>>51644702
Where's the Artificer?

>>51644702
>EK better than BM because muh magic

Absolutely hilarious.

Also is your metric just damage? Because you seem to flip flop on whether utility is relevant given that bard is at the top and rogue is near the bottom.

>>51644702
Hahahahahahah. You don't even know how to play monk.

Also sneak attack is easy to keep up. The game is design based on the idea that rogue will always get sneak attack every round. And spells can't really replace skill in this edition. Even if you cast charm person, you still need to make a Persuasion check. Even if you cast invisibility, you still need to make a stealth check.

>>51644702
>Sorcerer
>A Tier

Nice try, Dragonberg Breathattackstein.

>>51644755
Nah the guy definitely just came from /pfg/ to shit on us. He don't actually know what he is talking about. Just ignore him.

>>51644702
I actually agree with this except I'd kick sorcerer down to B tier with the other peasants.

>>51644336
Most monsters have high int/wis. Is your DM dumb? They should be using tactics.

>>51644764
Not that guy, but what the fuck is the point of Sneak Attack if you can get it every round? Isn't the point of a sneak attack to do cool assassin-style instant-kills if you can manage the proper set-up?

Why they changed Sneak Attack to a "you get it every turn easily" thing easily is still one of their absolute worst design decisions IMO.

>>51644788
>A martial class being able to do consistent damage is bad game design
This is your argument. Go punch a mirror.

>>51644804
It's more fun to only deal damage sometimes, but have it be yuge.

>>51644804
That's not his argument. If you can get it every turn, don't call it Sneak Attack and don't justify it as a rogue popping out and backstabbing someone.

It effectively just turns a rogue into a nimble duelist. Call it Artful Strike or something.

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>>51644804
As others have pointed to posts lonnng before that one, being able to put out damage is bad when it's damage that's easily resisted or enemies are outright immune to it. This has ALWAYS the problem with martials, they're one trick ponies who can't do shit when hitting enemies with a piece of metal stops working.

>>51644604
>>walking diagonally on the grid costs double, everyone knows that
I mean, I do 1-2 cost for diagonal movement. So moving 2 diagonal is the same cost as moving 3 in a direction while going 1 is just 1. Easier numbers and doesn't immediately break space. I'll probably alter it as they go to different planes.

>>51644594
I always feel like I'm cheating if not going by RAW heh

>>51644485
>But with how every game I've ever been in lends to the DM allowing casters rest
I've been playing since I was a kid, I've only, literally ever seen one DM who would let anything remotely like a 5 minute workday fly.

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>>51644804
Wow... someone crit-failed reading-comprehension.

Must be an bottom-tier martial who dumped intelligence.

>>51644788
You are thinking of Assassin's assassinate ability, not sneak attack.

Sneak attack is a kick to the nuts and stuff.

>>51644824
> Beginning at 1st levei, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe's distraction.

No where did it said "popping out and backstabbing someone". You are delusional.

>>51644702
>Sorcerer at A
>Rogue below B
>Paladin below S

>>51644485
Consistently refusing to follow guidelines, then complaining when things dont work as intended, seems fairly silly.

>>51644886
>Paladins
>On par with Lore bards
Painfully stupid, desu.

>>51644886
Wizard and Lore Bard Wizard are the only S-Tier classes. This is objective fact.

>>51643982
And without a save or attack roll required.

>>51644314
You could, as a DM, hide the guard's initiative, but the player knows their initiative and it's only fair to give the players free reign out of the first round as a 'Yeah, not rolling initative yet, you do your thing' because honestly combat shouldn't have truly started until they've noticed you are the first round. And then they could still win on intiative afterwards and do something.

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>tfw your party is a PAM Paladin, Lore Bard, Diviner Wizard and Light Cleric

I feel bad for our DM, honestly. Everything he throws at us gets fucked into gibbets.

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>>51644976
This sounds like a badass demon-hunting Castlevania-style campaign. 10/10.

>>51644976
Your DM needs to git gud.

>>51645022
That's pretty much the most bullshit party composition in 5E though, especially if the players know what they're doing and aren't infighting.

>>51644828
Yes, but that piece of metal will work most of the time and when it doesn't, then a slightly magical piece of metal will usually do the trick. There's not a lot of enemies with resistance to all physical damage, including magic weapons.

>>51645058
I see how it is. Come crawling back to the magical weapons that we magic-users create for you, the martial proletariat.

>>51645067
>creating magic weapons
>5e

>>51644913
>>51644941
There's no need for an S-tier.

All the good fullcasters and the Paladin should be on the same tier, because you probably want one of each, and you definitely want a paladin in each party.

>>51645067
>Making magic weapons

See, an accurate criticism would be that martials have to beg the DM for magic weapons. Consider actually reading the rules.

>>51645085
>>51645128

>they don't have a Forge Domain cleric in their party

Martials never learn.

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>>51645085
>>51645128
Really makes you think where the magic items come from if no one could reasonably make them..

>>51645067
>creating magical weapons
Enchanted weapons are more something that is created based on the legend of its bearer or the emotional investment of the creator into a masterpiece. No caster involved.

>>51645162
>Overpowered UA content that clearly didn't understand the concept of stacking AC
I bet you allow oathbreakers, too.

>>51645037
There's no difference how good your composition is, once you throw enough encounters with enough monsters in them, exhaustion and pressure take their toll.

>>51645168
Gods, legends, or harvested from magical creatures?

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>>51645206
Wew, because attrition-based combat slogs are fun.

>>51645206
You could, but at that point you're being childish as a DM and might as well drop rocks on the party and kill them.

>>51645168
>This weapon was wielded by a hero
>This weapon was made by a renowned master smith who is said to quench his blades in water from a source in which unicorns drink regularly
>This weapon's power increases as your renown does in the land.

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>>51644976
Piggy-backing off this anon's post, how CAN you go about challenging strong mid-high level parties?

>>51645228
>>51645206
>>51645037
>>51645022
>>51644976
Send a doppelganger party after them.

>>51645228
> Challenging party is childish, we should roflstomp everything
Really took my noggin jogging.

>>51645292
Encounters are supposed to use monster statblocks, not PC statblocks. The game isn't balanced around PC vs PC combat - it's rocket-tag on crack.

What non-treasure loot can you give to PCs at low levels? I haven't started DMing 5e yet but I keep seeing people say not to give magical items.

What about things like Weapon+1?

>>51645304
>hurr hurr I'll challenge them by sending endless waves of monsters at them until they're out of resources

That's not challenging either, retard. That's just inevitable death. Although frankly any wizard worth his salt would just rope-trick and plan a better way about it.

>>51645316
Weapon+1 is a magical item.

What do you think that +1 is, anon?

The +1 means fucking magic.

So I'm playing a level 1-10 game soon. Multi-classing isn't allowed so it's got to be a straight class. I want to use magic but I'm not sure whether to go Wizard or Bard.

Wanna be helpful in combat with buff and controlling spells mainly.

>>51645316
TRADE GOODS AND ART OBJECTS

>>51645318
> We should take a rest the moment we can't throw fireballs anymore, and DM is a childish retard if 5 minute adventuring day doesn't work
Really opened my eyes

Rebalanced favored soul:
7/10

Strong, but only because it has access to the cleric spell list, which is more or less strictly better than the sorcerer spell list for damage, support and pretty much anything else. Pulling off some sick moves like twinned bane or cure wounds, or even the classic spirit guardians + spiritual weapon combo is all a great addition to the sorcerer. Sorcerers still have an extremely tiny known spells problem however, and this archetype doesnt solve it, and if anything exaggerates it. Most of its class features outside of access to the cleric spell list are lackluster so its right about the perfect powerlevel for a pureclass sorcerer.

Phoenix sorcery
5/10

It gets the evocation level 6 damage bonus at level 1, but only once per long rest. Everything else about it is pretty lackluster. Making people take damage when they hit you kind of sucks for a character who shouldnt be getting hit, you have to go all-in on fire which makes you have to take elemental adept feat or be wrecked by resistances, and makes you useless against immunities. Phoenix spark just seems like it will kill off your party members in desparate situations. I like the flavor but the mechanics are filling a niche that doesnt exist. Why does a sorcerer need self healing and thorn damage? They have the smallest HP pool in the game and no armor.

>>51645316
Trade goods, art objects, favors, mounts

Also fwiw I often do treasure anyway, just not items +1; common magic items and the like. +0 can sometimes be fine (but then again I treat silvered as +0 imc)

Sea Sorcerery
10/10

The cantrip curses are insane. WIth the frostbite cantrip, youre turned into one of the best debuffers and controllers in the game, with the ability to lock down and trivialize anyone who isnt immune to cold damage. In addition, a pallysorc with booming blade and this origin suddenly is EVEN MORE OP. In fact, this archetype takes the already insane pallysorc and cranks it up to 11. It seems like you apply and activate the curse all at once by using a cantrip that deals the required damage type up front, so something like gust is now a base 20ft displacement, or lightning lure could yank an enemy 15ft behind you right into your waiting allies or off a cliff. Theres also lot sof cool quicken combos, where you can curse + activate the curse with a leveled spell, like frostbite + gust of wind to both remove 15 speed AND make them spend 2 ft of movement for every 1 they move, AND knock them back 30ft. All that is JUST their level 1 ability, they also get one of the most INSANE oh shit buttosn ive ever seen at level 6, completely negating a ton of damage and moving 30ft away withou provoking is INSANE! Their capstone of always on resistance and crit immunity is nice and really makes the squishy sorcerer feel less fragile.

Stone Sorcerery
3/10

Ultimately this archetype is for minmaxing multiclass builds, and is nearly useless on a pure sorc. If youre going pure sorc, you will be far too MAD to be useful, so the only time this archetype wouldnt be strickly worse than a paladin would be when you roll for stats and get 3 values of 16 or higher. And EVEN then it would be hard to justify. This archetype would end up like EK where you leave your casting stat as low as possible and only use spells that dont require a save or attack, so that you can pump str/dex and CON. Without heavy investment in CON, youre essentially just taking this archetype to be a sorcerer with a shield, something that can be accomplished much easier with a feat. (or not at all, since you get access to the shield spell which is "good enough" most of the time). The level 6 feature seems great for a rogue, but otherwise just puts you in harms way with no real defensive options for your self, and the damage mitigation on the warded ally is laughably low. All in all, it has some minor multiclass abuse potential but is otherwise extremely lacklulster and far to MAD to be useful as a pure sorc.

>>51645334
That's what I thought, but then, how do you measure a good non-magical weapon against a bad one?

The +1 doesn't count as magical damage for the purposes of resistance.

>>51645340
But isn't art just treasure?

>>51645367
Favours and mounts makes sense. It just seems like after a few quests you might end up with a party with about 10 horses and everyone owing them something.

>>51645378
>pallysorc
The preferred term is Sorcadin

>>51645316
>People say not to give players magic items
>So why don't I give them the most obnoxious magic item possible instead?
No.
Unless you don't even bother with such resistances anyway, you do need to give martial players some way to overcome non-magic-weapon resistance/immunity, but other than that magical items should be focused on being fun and increasing player options/versatility rather than being straight power buffs.

>>51645407
Yes, it is. And treasures, trade goods and potions are the only things you should be giving out at low levels.

>>51645353
>fireballs used to end encounters in a PAM Pally/Lore Bard/Light Cleric/Diviner Wizard comp

Okay, you don't actually play 5E.

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>>51645395
I agreed with you up until this one.

>>51645407
Not all "Art objects" are just fancy decorations you put in a mansion or museum. Sometimes they're fancied up tools or clothing. Hell, even a weapon can be an art object if it's significantly blinged out.

But if what you meant by "non-treasure" was "non physical objects" then yeah, favors and such from useful NPCs could work.

>>51645420
But anon, what do they get to spend the treasure on?

>>51645453
LAND

>>51645420
My party has taken to just hoarding all the art objects they find as decoration for their future home.

>>51645425
Give me an example of it not being trash, then? Im failing to see it being useful at all outside of multiclass abuse. Or are you just saying a sorcerer with a shield is good?

>>51645316

>non-treasure loot

?

??

???

Loot IS treasure nigga.

If you're worried about them accumulating wealth too soon through the means of pearls, gold, jewels and fine art, then give them real life loot.

Wheels of cheese, silks, spices, etc. Why are you not giving them treasure? Just give them piles of copper instead of gold until they gitgud.

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>>51645453
ACQUIRE LAND

BUILD CITIES

>>51645453
Land, services, and food.

>>51644636
Get some scrolls boi

>>51644636
Why did you not get your starting equipment?

>>51644101
>The best tank?
Totem Barbarian

>The best ranged dps?
Battlemaster Fighter using crossbows

>The best melee dps?
Paladin

>The best support?
Bard

>>51645316
Cows, you fool! Is not the eldest words for war in so many languages "to take cattle"?

What spells should I grab with additional magic secrets as lore bard at 6th level? I was thinking counterspell and aura of vitality for the heals, but we have a cleric. I'm looking for more support /buff/debuff skills in battle generally.

>>51644636
>Playing a class all about items in a game where you don't even get items

>>51645701
Clerics don't get aura of vitality, and aura of vitality is concentration (Clerics have other things to concentrate on) and does a job the cleric can't do - getting everybody who falls to 0 HP back above 0 again without any actions after casting.

Counterspell is a given.

You could try find steed or something, iunno. Shillelagh is a good pick if you plan to then go paladin.

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Desert Tomb fag from yesterday, what other creatures or events would you guys expect to see in a dungeon based in the catacombs/deserted underground college of a desert city?

Scarabs, sandstone golems, mummies, and diseases are the mainstays I have.

>>51643145
Stone Sorc with Mage Slayer

Can anyone tell me their experiences with Sun Soul Monks? How are they used in combat?

So I killed a player.

>warlock with no str or dex
>is sitting 5 ft from edge
>edge of a cliff that is several hundreds of feet tall and into a ravine
>gets grappled by an Orc
>shoved off the side of the cliff
>fails 4 acrobatics and 3 str saves
>rolls down the side of the ravine and free falls to the bottom, breaking apart when he lands on jagged rock formations at the bottom
>"that's bullshit"

I EXPRESSLY told them to learn about actions and what special actions (tumble overrun etc) they can take prior to the session. They are level 5.

Now he's mad as fuck his character is dead.

>>51645805
Some sort of sentient mini sandstorm. Like a small dust devil, but sand.

>>51645834
Monks are a bit squishy in melee, so sun soul monks are granted the convenient ability to stay away from melee combat.

However, the problem is that if you just use ranged attacks all day you're just a worse dex fighter/UAranger/warlock.

As such, I'd probably play it as,
'Enter melee to stunfuck everything up, then retreat to range whenever you're not stunfucking everything up'.

Probably better to just play a mobile monk or something though.

Sun soul monks do look kinda fun, though.

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>>51645805
Jackal people.

>>51645674

just to expand on this a bit for the other anon:

>Totem Barbarian
6 levels barbarian, then the rest rogue. Use a 1 handed finesse weapon but use STR for your attacks and damage, and a shield.

>Battlemaster Fighter using crossbows
variant human with crossbow expert, at level 4 grab sharpshooter. Choose archery fighting style. You can now shoot as an action and a bonus action, apply BM maneuvers and SS damage bonus to all your attacks, and use precision maneuver if you ever miss. Even with 16 dex the build mathematically works out to be the highest DPR in the game without expending resources.

>Paladin
2 pally, the rest sorcerer, Go for the new sea sorcery archetype sorcerer, quicken booming blade over and over with smites for insane DPR. Never use a spellslot for anything except to convert to more sorc points to keep using quicken.

>bard
Pure bard, college of lore or glamour (lore is better) use vicious mockery as often as you can, with healing word or bardic inspiration as your bonus action. Remember, your job is to mitigate damage, not deal damage. Use dissonant whispers on a target that is next to your allies to give them all opportunity attacks. At 6 take counterspell and aura of vitality. At 7, multiclass into a single level of life cleric to turn your AoV into god mode. At higher levels take wall of force and break every encounter.

>>51645727
Interesting, thank you for the additional insight on AoV.

>>51645854
He's dumb for standing next to a cliff while fighting orcs. You're dumb if you expect them to know about Tumbling and Overrunning, even if you warned them.

>>51645854
Good riddance.

4 acrobatics and 3 str saves is way, way too generous.

At best they deserve 1 acrobatics to avoid grapple, 1 acrobatics to avoid falling off the edge and in that case an athletics to get back up providing teammates actutally stop the orc from just punting you off and maybe one acrobatics to avoid landing in a dangerous position.

Don't stand at the fucking cliffside for fuck sake.

>>51645854
>tossed off a cliff
>fails 7 goddamn rolls in a row
>mad that he died
>was playing a warlock
Not surprised, famalam.

>>51645834
Monks do seem a bit, well, boring. Spam stuns and flurries and that's about it really.

>>51645605
>>51645708
Because the DM wanted so. I thought I wouldn't get the starting gold and equipment, not literally everything my class can do.

After talking with a buddy of mine who's into norse history and lore....

Is there anything I can do to tweak the Barbarian/Berserker to better reflect its historical namesake (unarmored, dual swinging axes)?
The level 3 feature Frenzy would basically be cancelled out by already being able to use two handaxes...

>>51645316
Get inventive with trade goods. A barrel of tobacco is great for your first adventure as treasure, better still if you have a PC who likes to haggle over price. Think of things that your baddies might actually like to steal. Cows for goblins, gnomish inventions for kobolds, elven silks for orcs. If you want to drive home how many innocent folks the villain has killed, have a collection of simple silver wedding bands that fills a whole container.

Also, I disagree with not giving low level PCs magic items. Give them something that will become their signature item early on to hook them. A sweet weapon that has a cool but not crazy powerful feature, a wand, a displacer cloak. Something you think that player would get a kick out of and would be the kind of thing that helps define the character. Most games don't last to max level, so there's plenty of time to cook up artifacts for your players once they hit 15th level and higher. In the meantime, give them something nice because otherwise I feel that you're missing out on a lot of the enjoyment the game has to offer.

Making a rogue

What are ways to use/craft poison so that it's not overpowered. Obviously I don't want to use them constantly but utility poisons like in the DMG or weaker.

>>51645939
>Not telling you you wouldn't get your class items that you get for being your class
>Rolling for stats

It's shit, senpai.

>>51645959
Show an interest in poison and hope your DM lets you find some at some point.

>>51645938
You can say the same about any martial

>hurr paladins just spam smites
>hurr fighters just spam attacks
>hurr barbarians just rage and spam attacks

Doing the same action each round isnt boring. Theres plenty of nuance such as positioning, proper targeting, space control, proecting your allies, grappling/shoving, using environmental variables etc. Monks comparatively have tons of options when you look at them side by side with other martials.

>>51645949
You could give him drugs to take to cancel out the level of exhaustion when he frenzies.

>>51645854
LOL yeah I just had the same thing.

>introduce BBEG at lvl 6, at a court in neverwinter
>he is a knight commander of neverwinter
>lawful evil, has been undermining party left and right
>is not confrontational, but aristocratically insults them after they prove their innocence after failing his scheme
>warlock loses his shit, constantly yells, insults and threatens the BBEG and is warned by the mage-judge to control himself
>mage-judge picks him up with telekinesis and threatens to imprison him for contempt
>puts the warlock back in his chair
>it's obvious the BBEG wants them gone, but is abiding by the law
>BBEG makes a snide remark about their temperament and violent nature
>warlock is having none of that shit
>immediately shoots an eldritch blast at the BBEG
>mage-judge straight up disintegrates the warlock
>what the fuck dude

>>51645805
>>51645869
Look up the Storm Giant Quintessant in the mega. You can refluff it into being just that

>>51645949
have him die by being bitten by the decapitated head of his arch rival.

>>51645872
I'm thinking of using that bonus action Burning Hands though.

>>51645680
It's true. Cows, other labor animals, means and supplies for production and agriculture. All good.

>>51645474
Yes, acquiring titles to land. In fact what may seem a boon becomes a responsibility.

LAND!

>>51646089
>Judge
>Immediately resorting to 'I kill you instantly, you cannot be revived execpt by very difficult means' spells when a provoked guy starts launching weak spells in anger

The judge should've launched a weaker spell that'd likely incapacitate the warlock in a round and then imprison them.
.. And then they can roll a new character unless hte party is prepared to get into deep shit.

That way, though, they at least know the warlock is somewhere and might come out at a future date.

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>>51645805
Arcanaloth with a congregation of jackalweres.
Giant scorpions.
Crocodiles?
Locust swarms, also rot grubs.
A fucking sphynx.
Guard Drake, refluff it as Amemait/Ammit.

>>51646157
>weak spells
Legally, piss off. It doesn't matter how much effort is put into it, an attempt on someones life is an attempt on someones life and to be responded to just the same. A dude holding a screwdriver is the same as a dude with a gun when it comes to lethal force and if you use anything weaker than your absolute max force against a target then you obviously weren't threatened enough to use lethal force.

>>51645316
Training from masters in skills, tools, feats, or languages as a means to gain access to them outside of the normal progression of levels. Use this sparingly. SPARINGLY AND RARELY!

The DMG also suggests charms and various boons as rewards, also land, titles, and mundane supplies such as COWS and MORE LAND! HUGE TRACTS OF LAND! POLITICALLY ADVANTAGEOUS MARRIAGE.

>>51646199
Firstly, it's clear the warlock isn't going all out. It's completely possible the guy was having a bout of anger and wasn't in their right mind, and might even have been brought to some level of mental instability. However, they're clearly restraining themself enough to not use whatever the strongest spells they have are, and they're doing something that obviously wouldn't work - trying to attack a tough guy in a court.

All signs point to 'There might be more to this'.

But the judge just says 'Lol, no, instant death sentence and stay dead' rather than doing his fucking job and sentencing people to death/jail time/whatever.

He could easily have restrained the warlock instead.

Arcana clerics seem very good, considering you really need a way to not have your party indefinitely coated with horrendous debuff spells for all eternity.

>>51645805
Fifth Edition Foes admittedly third-party made a fitting one or two. Hieroglyphicroc and Jackal of Darkness. Dunno if you'd approve of them though, I only read the thing out of boredom.

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>>51645805
[muffled clop clop in the distance]

>>51646241
Have you ever been to a courthouse in your life? I guarantee you if you pulled out a slingshot and shoot someone int eh face with a pellet, or lunge at him with a screwdriver or something, you will get shot dead by the police immediately.

>>51645888
>highest DPR in the game without expending resources.
What about crossbow bolts ;^)

>>51644788
A level 5 rogue can deal 4d6+Dex damage with a sneak attack using a shortsword.
A level 5 fighter can deal 4d6+(2 x Str) damage with a greatsword (before factoring in fighting style or feats).

>>51646089
>>51646157
Seems fine to me. In all campaigns I have ever been in, and I have DMed and played for the last 20+ years, it is a given that attacking people in the confines of civilization, in front of servants of law and order, will result in lethal attack. Did the right thing.

If in the modern day someone grabbed a gun during a court and shot at someone, the cops would ventilate him and be wholly justified.

>>51646344
You're a harsh DM, but you're not wrong. Doesn't mean your players will like it, though.

Times when you killed a player???

>transmutation wizard researching dangerous magic
>paladin goes chaotic stupid
>by himself, breaks into his house and picks a fight
>gets polymorphed into a squirrel after losing initiative
>2 rounds of the mage catching the squirrel
>mage creates an adamantine 2x2 ft cube with no hinges around the paladin
>polymorph wears off
>adamantine wears off
>paladin is ultra compressed meat cube with bits of metal armor

>>51646374
V E R I S I M I L I T U D E

>>51646375
>Homebrew system testing
>Player rolls up character
>Go into den of monsters to test the combat system
>He gets his ass beat, but otherwise wins.
>He gets into the groove of the system, defining his actions and not biting off more than he can chew
>Decides to take on the boss
>Uses firearms to take it down, beats it handily by kiting it and blocking doors, shooting it through the windows on the doors until it drops
>Takes a victory sip from his batman glass
>Sets it down and misses the coaster
>I lunge across the table and skewer the cunt through the eyeball with a chopstick, killing him

Glamour Bard any good?

>>51646344
Firstly, you will probably be restrained if it's only a slingshot or something. You might get shot in the leg at worst.
You will NOT get machinegunned down.

Secondly, magic doesn't exist in the real world. How does the judge know the warlock wasn't under a subtle magical influence that made him momentarily snap out? You can't even bring a potential ranged weapon into a courthouse unless you're in the jury or something, I imagine. I mean, I'd hope they at least check you for guns.
The BBEG is an idiot. They just need a wizard to cast a 'Make the party attack the BBEG in court' spell and the court will just disintegrate all of them. Or is the judge some sort of all-seeing mary sue character?

Thirdly, ANY character aside from a fucking judge should be doing this. The judge is the one who doesn't want more paperwork regarding them fucking murdering someone in court. They're there to trial and find the truth, not just say 'Okay, I don't like this guy, he's dead.'

>>51646367
If it's a petty attack, there's no reason to escalate immediately to 'DEATH BUT WORSE' levels of damage. Even just killing them is better than disintegration. And if someone does it, it should be a guardsman first.

>>51646431
Not as good as lore, but close.

>>51646442
>If it's a petty attack, there's no reason to escalate immediately to 'DEATH BUT WORSE' levels of damage.

Popping off Eldritch Blasts are undeniably analogous to firing a gun, dude. PCs and NPCs alike have no means of telling "oh, that's just a 20 damage EB, fired at a guy with 200 hp, that's harmless!"

>You might get shot in the leg at worst.

Get the fuck outta here, cops do not fire "disabling" shots.

Court scenes suck.

Prison breaking out a PC sucks.

Every possible system for fleeing pursuers sucks.

Don't let PCs get arrested. Friends don't let friends play dickthieves, and friends don't let friends DM "you get framed for murder" plots.

does anyone have that 5e thread about the idea of having a PC getting his stats thought choices as a kid kinda like fallout 3


also how to play a twilight druid

>>51646322
GOD NO I WAS DONE WITH YOU FUCKS

Have you guys actually played in a game that was more flavor than optimization? A game that's more than a Dungeon crawl or hit your enemies until they die?

>>51646498
I tried to run one, once.

It ended after one session and one player quit RPGs forever.

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>>51646419
>merchant says health potions are 50g
>I lay down 10g on the counter
>with devils sight, I want to glow my eyes red
>ok
>I summon gokuryuha, my katana pact blade
>alright, the merchant is about to run out of the backdoor
>using my katana as a spell focus I cast eldritch bolt at the merchant
>my eldritch bolt looks like a chidori
>roll, hits. Roll damage
>as you kill the merchant, the town master walks in
>with my eyes red I cast phantasmal force and make him see his family being slaughtered
>he is frightened and intimidated, he runs out of the building
>I misty step in front of him, impale him through his heart with my katana

>>51646419
>Homebrew setting
>Send out open invite on campus for additional player
>meet with him at library to go through screening process
>Arrange a time to conduct interview
>Passes
>Session 0, planning story and characters
>New Player makes a point to bring his own coaster
>Good man
>reaches in his backpack and pulls out a container
>as he sets it down on the coaster, he spins it slightly so I can read the text printed on the side
>SKUB
>teleport behind him and stab the fucker with my Navy SEAL issued Dai-katana pocket knife

Now they have to pass two interviews

>>51646498

Probably almost everyone here, why? Most campaigns are what you describe. Or are you just projecting because someone hurt your fee fees?

>>51646511
>Gokuryuha

Underrated

>>51646442
>shot in the leg
NO SUCH THING
If a law enforcement officer is shooting at you, they are shooting to kill
They aim center mass and put as many rounds in as is needed to neutralize the threat. Its pure luck if you go down and don't die to your wounds.

>>51646511
>my eldritch bolt looks like a chidori

Your eldritch bolt looks like a small sand bird?

>>51646491
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VbH0D9mLEY
CLOP CLOP CLOP CLOP

>>51646498
>>51646498
yeah, you can see the vods of the game I run here:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxV6pTP86zoac5BSu50k5LNX66w2lqpK6

>>51646442
>You might get shot in the leg at worst.
Ask me how I know you're british.

>>51646481
I don't know, but where I live, you wouldn't get to bring a ranged weapon into court and you wouldn't get shot by the guys in there, either. You'd be restrained.

Now, answer the fucking point

Why couldn't the BBEG just put a dormant, hard to detect enchantment that makes the players feel like attacking in the court and thus get all the players killed by the leaders of law themselves?


If you want to spring 'Well, this is how it'd work in real life' bullshit in then consider making it so that
1. The party cannot bring weapons into court
2. There is an antimagic field in court
3. Players cannot easily traverse from their stand to attack the BBEG weaponless without a guard getting in the way

And, completely unrelated but something you need to do,
4. Let the players have fucking fun. What you said is 'Your character is now permadead, they're not coming back, because they did something stupid.' When it would have been just as plausible to say 'Your character is restrained and now in jail, and will probably not come back except maybe in the future if they atone or the party somehow cares enough to risk their lives breaking them out or maybe the warlock might even be able to make a case to redeem themself'.

One develops the story more and gives the players more options and feels less bullshit. Guess which one.

>>51646579
ahhh, that explains why he thinks you can just shank someone in a courthouse without retaliation

>mfw an american calls an 'armless petty rainbow strobe seizure zap "eldritch blast"

>>51646547
Well fuck I don't like in gunland so I wouldn't know.

>>51646625
>Implying you wouldn't be stopped before you get in shanking range.
I'm sorry for living in a land where nobody can really complain much about cop brutality because the cops are real men that restrain and deliver justice rather than going vigilante.


But if we want to continue this, we should go to /pol/, this isn't real life, this is a world with fucking magic and less guns.

>>51646534
>underrated

His pact blade is the hardened, materialized soul of an ancient shadow dragon. I allowed him to use staffs and form them into swords as a pact ability


His devils sight is a sharingan

He is a 300 lb Orc

He has -2 intellect, wisdom and strength but wears a headband of intellect and ogre gauntlets

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>>51646625
You forgot your picture.

>>51646644
Sharia law for you soon.

Bin that knife, kuffir.

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>>51646644
> mfw he actually was british

>>51646646
this is so stupid i wish it was real

>>51646089

>I AM THE LAW

Well, technically, judge, jury, and executioner are supposed to be seperate things

>>51646701
He's probably a king as well, though, and a necromancer.

>>51646607
>you wouldn't get to bring a ranged weapon into court

if you got loose and used a lethal weapon on people you would be killed (and a dagger is 1d4 so don't trouble me with fables about how 2d10 or whatever is low lethality)

>thus get all the players killed by the leaders of law themselves?

the judge probably knows no such spell exists and that the BBEG could just have killed them easier

>And, completely unrelated but something you need to do,

you seem to have me confused with someone else. I don't even do the "bbeg" thing, I prefer the idea of having all highly energetic and independent antagonists that are on relatively similar terms of the PCs be not very different in power levels from the PCs. I certainly wouldn't have there be TWO highly active, independent, high level types in the same room. a lich's apprentice is a vastly better "bbeg"-ish type than the lich himself. I have no patience at all for anything like "uber powerful dude who can solo a party turning up to gratuitously taunt the PCs."

I like the concept of "rival" way better than "bbeg."

on the other hand, if the PCs ran into a "rival" while there were a bunch of his house's retainers nearby and began attacking him in town or his castle/manor, I would have the guards ventilate him with crossbow bolts, no questions asked.

>>51646644
>>Implying you wouldn't be stopped before you get in shanking range.
I want you to google 21 foot rule.

>>51645854
You at least explained these actions are optional ones listed in the DMG that they'd have to search for, right?

I've never played with a caster who had a good grasp on how other actions worked so i'm not surprised if he didnt look them up though

>>51646644
the sheer arrogance of the inhabitant of a tiny pissant island making gross generalizations about a country the approximate size of western or eastern europe never ceases to make me chuckle

>>51645854
>have a cliff
>grapple a character
>throw him off the cliff

Realistic or not, that IS a dick move.

>fails seven saves
>dies

What the fuck was the point of the saves? Either you wanted him to die or you didn't. Once he started rolling there was no longer anything he could do to affect the outcome, so why roll so many times?

>I EXPRESSLY told them to learn about actions and what special actions (tumble overrun etc) they can take prior to the session. They are level 5.

What the fuck is "tumble overrun"?

>>51645854
how is tumble/overrun/etc. gonna help no str warlock

>>51646758
Guns don't exist in Britain (they're a unique American homebrew) so he never would've been exposed to such a concept.

>>51646826
>Once he started rolling there was no longer anything he could do to affect the outcome
That's the fucking point of rolling. That's the fucking point of dice. We use dice to determine uncertainty. If not we would just say we hit monster every time and max damage.
Tumble and overrun are additional, optional actions in the DMG. Overrun lets you push through a dude with strength and tumble lets you duck through a dude with dex.

So, dual shortswords versus rapier on a rogue. The option to attack again if I miss (or have nothing better to blow a bonus action on for some reason) is worth losing at most 2 damage per attack, especially in light of sneak attack, right? At best the rapier means I have a free hand for Fast Hands or something?

>>51646644
>I'm sorry for living in a land where nobody can really complain much about cop brutality because the cops are real men that restrain and deliver justice rather than going vigilante.
British police killed a brazilian with a slight tan on the vague doubt he might be an arab, you dumb bong.

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>>51646856
England on suicide watch

>>51646870
The main reason to go dual wielding on a rogue is to give yourself a second chance of getting a sneak attack if you fail your first attack.

Also it averages out to only 1 damage per attack.

>>51646867
>That's the fucking point of rolling. That's the fucking point of dice. We use dice to determine uncertainty. If not we would just say we hit monster every time and max damage.

I didn't say don't roll. I questioned rolling seven times. Everything after the first dice hits the table is completely outside of the players control, so the fact that it went on for so long means the DM was trying to spare the character, in which case why roll at all if you're going to go so far to prevent a bad outcome?

>Tumble and overrun are additional, optional actions in the DMG.
>Overrun lets you push through a dude with strength and tumble lets you duck through a dude with dex.

How would these have helped the Warlock, had he known about them?

>>51646750
Maybe you shouldn't be allowed to use weapons in the court in the first place.

But I guess if you want to say the judge is only a 6th level spellcaster and they don't have magic above that to constrain magic in a courtroom, that's probably acceptable.

I can at least accept that you might get detained and jailed or 'maybe' killed for letting loose an attack in a courtroom, but disintegrate (especially considering the guy could dodge it and it might hit something else and if they do dodge it they could continue to attack) seems a pretty poor choice, especially when it gaurantees they'll never find out what's really going on from the warlock, and the judge decided that he was worthy of death sentence in effectively 6 seconds or less.


As for knowing no spell exists, I suppose that's setting dependent. There's always ancient magics, or I'm pretty sure you could probably pull that off with spells already there. I hope at the very least the judge had 'detect magic' on.
He should consider that there might be something more going on for more than 6 seconds, even if they don't think the BBEG is that powerful, and 'hold person' is a much better go-to (Same save DC, non-violent, level 2 spell instead of 6) for the situation.

But, yeah, I do like that they're not actually a proper BBEG or overpowered.

I would've said
>Guards get ready when warlock looks aggressive
>Hold person
>Restrain and jail warlock
>Player rolls new character, old might show up later if they're lucky

>>51646826
Deal with it

Those saves were grapple, shove, catching onto something falling down

The enemy NPCs are out to win, this teaches new players they aren't mindless mobs, they will use strategy.

I had a bugbear knockout a player, then pick him up and hold him ransom. The players tried to back out of the deal so now goblinoids will now ruthlessly attack them and will not hold them hostage.

>>51646896
Right, that's basically what I meant. I guess I'm too used to the idea that a lot of weapons are strictly worse than others, but then this will be my first rogue and first dual wielder too. Seems like their pointy thing is just a delivery service for the sneak attack damage, and the weapon itself barely matters. Feels like you could even go dual dagger and not miss much, though maybe that would be felt more early than late levels.

>>51646955
>pull dick moves
>when pointed out, respond like a dick
>"Muh realism"

do you realize this game is meant to be fun

>>51646901
Go around to the other side of the orc so that he couldn't be grappled of the ledge.

Does anyone have any advice on how to run a session(s) where players are tracking down a target?

Specifically my players are trying to track down some frost giants that had fled from an attack on Bryn Shander the day before. Like I'm not sure how to mechanically work it so it's interesting.

I get the impression that the players should encounter evidence that the giants had passed by an area, but I don't know how how to make it non-linear. In my mind, I'm thinking it would play out something like "the players encounter the camp of the giants, then they find some carcasses where the giants ate lunch, then they find a caravan which had been demolished, then they find the giants." But that seems way too linear and predetermined.

>>51646980
>NPCs can never use strategies
>Even when the players have the handicaps of casual reminders of their own counter options and 7 fucking ability checks to avoid death at the last
What beasts do you fight all day, anon? Inbred cows?

>>51646955
You're doing a good job.

But seriously, don't expect people to learn the actions in the DMG. Do make sure they realize things like 'don't fucking stand at the edge of cliffs' and the actions they can do in combat, and make them realize that they can and will die if they're not careful.

If the player is outraged, you did something wrong by not ensuring they knew what they were getting into, I guess. Either that or they're just really dumb.

>>51646064
Sorry, maybe I misphrased....
I'm trying to see if there's any tweaks I can do to make a berserker closer to historical ones, swinging two axes instead of one huge one.
But the Berserker here is built around fighting with one weapon, Frenzy lets him use a bonus action to do a second attack each round of his rage... So doing two greataxe attacks for 1d12 each for example.
But if the barb is already using two hand axes he's burning that bonus action for that off-hand attack already, so Frenzy gives him nothing.....

>>51645949
Allow the berserker's extra attack to not use a bonus action at all.

Give the berserker 1d10 light axes or two-weapon-fighter at level 5 that only they can use effectively to make up for what they're losing over 'proper' builds.

These might seem a bit powerful, but it doesn't cause inbalance and it would honestly still be a better idea to go wolf barbarian using PAM or something.

I have a question about in-game time and how it works if anyone could answer.

So according to the Player's Manual:

1 Round = 6 seconds
10 Rounds = 1 minute

Barbarian's Rage lasts for 1 minute.

I can't find how it is measured in combat. Does this mean that the Rage will last the Barbarian himself 10 rounds, or that it will last 10 rounds total (player A, monster B, monster C, A, B, C, A, B, C, then A)?

Am I understanding the tiefling sidebar in SCAG right? Does it say that all variant tieflings are not descended from Asmodeus, or is the variant list (and the list of weird features for tieflings) a separate thing from that part, that just got put with it because they're for the same race? I mostly ask because I don't want to be even more snowflakey than a tiefling already is by being some bastard of a succubus or something.

>>51647113
I'd vote until the end of players turn 10
That being said no combat will ever last 10 damn rounds.

>>51647113
Combats almost never last a minute and thus it's generally left unsaid.

Probably ends at the end of your round after 10 rounds.

>>51647102
>Not giving him 2 1d5 light axes then making frenzy damage 2d10

>>51647113
turns are not rounds. in one round multiple players and enemies may each take their turn.

>>51647012
>>Even when the players have the handicaps of casual reminders of their own counter options

the warlock in question never had any counter options, remember? >>51645854

the warlock failed 7 consecutive str/dex checks and had no str or dex, the options of grapple, overrun, etc. were always 100% useless for the warlock

>>51647113
A round is comprised of each creature's turn, which occur near simultaneously over the span of approximately 6 seconds.

>>51647113
Every cycle through turn order is a round, so with three combatants 1 minute would pass after 30 turns. I suppose it would be up to the DM if the rage wore off on the barbs turn or the start of the initiative order though.

>>51647260
>>51647259
>>51647215
>>51647173
>>51647165
Thanks everybody.

>>51646945
Guns are used in courtrooms, and they have the potential to miss and hit someone else too, I don't see a problem. I do see a problem with the general concept of BBEGs and towns having readily available disintegrators in general, but I see no problem with the servants of law and order putting down a violent, murderous criminal exactly as he unambiguously deserves.

>and the judge decided that he was worthy of death sentence in effectively 6 seconds or less.

warlock started to try to kill people, kill him first.

>As for knowing no spell exists, I suppose that's setting dependent.

"yonder devil's whore is flipping his shit, I better assume he is under the control of ancient magics beyond the boundary of ninth level spells, as opposed to someone with the poor judgment to sell his soul to the archfiend or something worse having the poor judgment to go berserk mid court"

just fucking kill him.

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Want to play a Half Orc Champion crit fisher.
What should I expect in terms of feats or general gameplay?

>>51647136
the variant list can go either/or

and I don't think being related to a succubus is snowflakey

>there exists a kind of fiend whose purpose is to fuck and breed
>some people are related to them

>>51647328
Great weapon master.

>>51647328
>What should I expect in terms of... general gameplay?

hitting things

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>>51647242
>Upset that a character with no physical skills is disadvantaged in a situation demanding perilous combat and constant risk of physical challenge/harm
>Doesn't even use the skills he has to fill these holes and counter them (Spells to halt or freeze the orc, blast the orc away, featherfall, transforming self to brace impact, etc)
Can't blame the dice for modeling Darwinism.

Hey, if it's out, could someone please toss up a copy of Kobold Press' Southland Heroes for 5e in the Mega, please?

>>51647136
The Variant Tiefling sidebar is to cover all cases of tieflings who don't look like the standard. Most tieflings in Faerun look like the standard due to a retcon involving Asmodeus "adopting" them by means of a ritual. Traditionally, they come from all manner of infernal crossbreeding and fiendish pacts, hence the diversity in the sidebar.

cantrips with attack rolls vs cantrips with saving throws

is one better than the other? attack rolls can crit, but I'm not sure if there is a major difference between how AC and saves scale.

>>51647304
Well, the guns in courtrooms are mostly there to keep people from doing anything stupid.
You can't put your magic on display and at the ready like a gun, and the disintegration attack came from nowhere - the player had no idea that level 6 spells would come out if they attacked. They might have expected maybe lower level spells or being swarmed and detained or beaten up and going out anti-heroically.
It's generally better to give players hints of what they're up against rather than leave them in the dark, and the only hint they had is that the judge is maybe a wizard or something maybe. And the player probably doesn't know a lot about high level spells.

It was no harder to detain the warlock than to kill them, so you might as well detain them.

And if it's a warlock, they tend to tap into otherworldly magic that could be beyond a wizard's spectrums of study.


The result - the player having to make a new character or quit - isn't wrong. The way you got there is wrong, in that from a roleplaying persepective it went

>Warlock: I want to do a thing
>DM: Okay, well actually wizard had an instant kill spell on him so roll a die or you die.

as opposed to
>Warlock: I want to do a thing
>DM: Okay, but now you've got several people you clearly knew were there and would try stopping you trying to detain you. Wizard tries to stun you, roll a save or you're stunned What do you do?
>Warlock: Well I'm stunned. Fuck.
>DM: Maybe your warlock will show up later in the campiagn.

>>51647360
>upset

don't care actually

>Spells to halt or freeze the orc, blast the orc away,

presumably the PCs were trying to kill the enemy, it was combat right?

>featherfall

its a warlock

>transforming self to brace impact, etc

no fucking clue what you're talking about but if you're being killed by a fucking ORC you're probably not high enough level to pull anything like that

it did put the warlock out of his misery and allow the player to make a real character however (note how warlocks are almost always the ones dying? yeah)

>>51647394
>>51647304
Actually, sorry, detaining him would be easier than killing him.

Only uses level 2 spells instead of 6 and any guards or other people can easily help out by trying to grapple him and such, and there's no chance of stupidity such as the player deflecting the ray, dodging the ray and it hitting something else or anything like that.

The judge was actually going out of his way to completely murder and murder the character forevermore.

>>51647445
Can you remind me how you would keep a guy who shoots lazors with no limit or components (as far as I know) from lazoring people?

Anons? I really wanted to make a "magical prodigy" Sorcerer subclass, and the Wild Mage's propensity to blowing itself up with Wild Surges didn't fit the fluff, so I homebrewed. Just how overpowered is this "Arcanist"?

1st level feature: Arcane Prodigy
Proficiency in Arcana. +1 Cantrips Known. +1 Spells Known (Total).

1st level feature: Mana Wellspring
+1 to Total Sorcery Points.

6th level feature: Font of Spells
Can create a spellbook and use it to prepare spells, like a wizard.

14th level feature: Overwhelming Power
Direct damage spells do bonus damage equal to the character's Charisma modifier.

18th level feature: Essence Incarnate
1/day, you can spend 5 Sorcery Points as an action to enter an Essence Form for 1 minute. In this state, you have Magic Resistance, gain Temporary Hitpoints if that nullifies a spell, gain Incorporeal Movement, increase speed by +10 feet, and can use Quicken Spell for free.

>>51647496
Bind and gag him.

>>51646199
He had every reasonable expectation that the Captain of the Guard was high enough level that a single Eldritch Blast could not kill him, even on a crit.

>>51643241
>>Twinned Spell Animate Dead
Strictly worse than being a Necromancer.

>>51643258
>TWINNED CURE WOUNDS.
Cleric list has efficient area heals already.
>Quicken Cure Wounds
You mean Healing Word?

>>51643512
>D6 finesse weapon with reach, it's almost a better shortsword except it isn't light.
That is very slightly better than the whip, which may itself be underpowered, but certainly not enough better to even qualify as a magic item.

>>51644081
>When you cast spell that has the range of self, the horse also got it.
It's actually when you cast a spell that only targets yourself, but don't let accurate reporting get in the way of people's butthurt.

>>51644178
>Crawford has confirmed that on twitter, because it works with the Wizard's 10th level evocation feature.
It's still retarded and only done that way so that it does work with the Wizard's 10th level evocation feature, because magic missile is special, like fireball and lightning bolt. 100% guarantee they'll change the Sparkle Druid's wording so that it doesn't work that way on magic missile for any official printing, now that they know.

What are your ideas on a great 10 man party?

Presumably one NOT trying to be maximally beardy with UA multiclasses, room fulls of winged tiefling ftr/sor/warlocks, etc., 9 necros + 1 oathbreaker, etc., but one that is of some sort of not completely bizarre gimmick.

>>51647389
Saves don't scale very much. Very few enemies are actually proficient in any saving throws. And an evoker wizard can do automatic damage with cantrips that call for saving throws, dealing half damage instead of no damage on a successful save.

>>51645949
I was actually writing a homebrew "raider" thing for the barb:

Lv3: Two-weapon fighting style, if you hit an enemy with a bonus action attack you may move up to 10 feet

Lv6: when you use reckless attack you may choose not to get advantage but instead deal 3 extra damage with your attacks

Lv10: You have advantage on any attacks or strength check to break open chests or other similar containers and on any perception or investigation checks to find hidden valuables

Lv14: when you use your bonus action to use two-weapon fighting you may attack twice instead of once

>>51647551
No. There is no reason for PCs or NPCs to metagame and think "oh, its only a d4 knife, he's harmless!"

>>51647558
The Fellowship of the Ring (including Bill the Pony)

>>51647496
Gag them, restrain their hands, restrain their fingers in some way that pervents proper spellcasting, anti-magic fields, some sort of curse, counterspell, silence, a guard that restrains the guy the moment he starts casting.

The only thing there harder than just straight up murderizing him is probably the anti-magic fields, and anti-magic fields eliminates that possibility of spells such as 'suggestion' from being use to imbalance the trial.

>>51647577
>have literally never been able to kill an orc with a single punch
>hrm i better not punch this ripped orcish warrior, he might die

Do you let your druid PCs shapeshift into spiders and just walk everywhere?

>A mage-judge that doesn't user Anti-Magic Fields OR Counterspell
How the fuck did this sap pass the MBAR? Send him back to magic-law-school.

>>51647558
An all elf warparty (with a ghostwise halfling pretending he's just a midget).

>>51647608
the amf, curse, and counterspell are all harder

>>51647551
HP is an abstraction. Even if the captain is technically at a high enough level to survive a crit from a greatsword wielded by a commoner, that's just a gameplay technicality.

In practice, the captain would have every reason to expect the greatsword would kill him in a single blow should he be careless.

Same applies for eldritch blasts.

>>51647619
punches, and real attacks, are pretty different, EBs are a lot nastier than a 1d4 dagger, yet there is no reason for a PC to think stabbing someone with a dagger won't kill him

>>51647687
But the Captain is a Battlemaster so he's at least level three and he knows he has 16 Con, he didn't roll for HP, so he's got 33 HP and a single Eldritch Blast couldn't possibly kill him.

>>51647619
Yeah because punching someone and stabbing someone are totally equivalent

>>51647721
>stab someone
>1d4+2
>stab someone in the heart
>2d4+2

>>51647715
>he knows he has 16 Con
No he doesn't, and his HP is not meat point, it's energy and focus.

>>51647715
I assume this post is satire.

>>51647750
So he's literally always 100% energetic and focused enough to take an Eldritch Blast to the face unless he was attacked earlier in the day.

You don't lose 2/3rds of your HP because you're sleepy.

>>51647741
>oh that junkie has a boxcutter, there's no way he'll kill me, those things only do 1d4 damage, even if he stabs me in the heart it won't cause a cardiac tamponade, leaving me effectively dead unless I get immediate care within less than 2 minutes, it will just do 2d4 damage lol

To NPCs it is real life, no metagaming

>>51645362
>Why does a sorcerer need self healing and thorn damage? They have the smallest HP pool in the game and no armor.
Well, those things would go great together if the self healing came before level 14, and if the thorns damage was available more than once per day. It'd also be nice if it just worked on melee attacks or weapon attacks instead of only melee weapon attacks within 5' of you. That gets useless real quick.

>>51647811

Quit trying to argue metagaming shit.

>>51647102
Yeah but PAM is a feat so if the berserker wants to use better axes he can just take Dual Wielder.

>>51647820
>the world's been spinning for thousands of years and literally no guard has ever realized it's impossible for beggar children to kill them in a single stab once they've been on the job for 10 years unless said beggar child has distinctive hair and eye coloration and a name like Dravon Moonshadow
Fuck off.

>>51647685
Counterspell is a level 3 spell that is practically a wizard staple and also can be obtained by more classes than disintegrate, I believe. And is only a reaction.
AMF I said was harder,
Curse is probably much easier. Bestow curse is a level 3 spell could feasibly be 'You're left gitterish and unable to perform somatic components of spells while within the court room.'
Oh, also, forgot a few

>Have them restrained, prone, blinded or in any situation that imposes disadvantage on their attacks.
>Put some sort of barrier anywhere between the two, or a barrier that shows up in reaction to spellcasting.
>Any stored spells that trigger to cancel out sudden magic use. The judge could have such a magic item on their table.
>Draining the warlock of their power somehow before they entered (At least their spell slots, though in theory you should be able to stop them casting cantrips too, because nobody in their right mind could cast a cantrip all day long but only cast hex once a day).
Any sort of laser deflector. There are abiltiies which deflect rays.
Some sort of magical binding you put on someone that will trigger if they try to cast harmful magics, and possibly hurt/stun/throw their hands off of casting.


>>51647849
Dual wielder fucking sucks though, and PAM is way better than +2 strength or whatever..

When you drink a potion, I how long do you need to wait until drinking another without fucking you up?

>>51647920
Whatever the DM says.

>>51647920
Whenever the action economy next permits you to drink (or be fed) a potion.

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>>51647863
Stop trying to make up excuses for metagaming

In-game an NPC beggar child could kill an NPC guard in a single stab if the DM says so