>Goddess of war and love.

Yeah, so?

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>>51579081
>Goddess of LCB

>>51579081
Yeah Ishtar was a cunt. Even the Greeks thought her worship was barbaric, since it involved forcing women to prostitute themselves at her temple before they could get married.

>>51579081
I remember I saw a shitty oneshot manga (or manhwa) in color about the whore who supposedly was a goddess of war and love.

>>51579081

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGVZOLV9SPo

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>>51579111
>forcing women to prostitute
>forcing

>>51579102
s-sauce?

>>51579081
I suppose she must consider nothing unfair.

>>51579153
I don't know how you mixed up /tg/ and /r9k/

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>>51579081
Are you talking shit about my Pantokrator's waifu?

>>51579111
Maybe not 100% every time, but as far as I know it was pretty consensual and priestesses of Ishtar were viewed on in high regard.

>>51579186
what is this, waifufaggotry for ants?

>>51579167
....fuck you that took me too long to realize
>>51579081
Is the goddess of those things in that order?

>>51579203
>Pretty consensual
It was a society where it was absolute law you do this, and Babylon was a conquering society, meaning conquered peoples were also forced into this practice.

When you don't have a choice about doing something, it's forced, whether or not you personally don't mind it, those that do don't get a choice.

>>51579111
You may want to take Greek accounts of barbarians with a grain of salt, especially when it's so positive or negative it surprises you.

>>51579268
You'll have to find Babylonian sources that contradict it, in that case. I'm not aware of any.

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>>51579205

Dominions, nice game with tiny sprites

>>51579166
Gate: Thus the JSDF fought here.
Perfectly good plot wasted by japanese army wank and standard harem shenanigans, sadly.

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>>51579268
What're you gonna do about it, read the self-describing barbarian historical accounts that they didn't write?

History is written by the civilized.

>>51579240
>It was a society where it was absolute law you do this
Sorry, can't find anything on that. What are your sources?

>>51579173
>"women are whores" statement makes you a virgin
If we are to play the game of "empty assumptions" can I have a shoot too?
Are you a woman?

>>51579329
Greek accounts of Ishtar.

>>51579282
How about babylonian sources that support it? Sacred prostitution did exist in many cultures, but believing that everyone had their fiance publicly deflorated is on the same level as jus primae noctis being a widespread custom.

>>51579316
>babylonians aren't civilized and didn't write
You're retarded for believing "barbarian" meant "uncivilized" to a Greek.

>>51579345
Anon, when we only have one source and absolutely no sources contradicting it, we have to assume, even hesitantly, that it's the truth.

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>>51579344
>Greek accounts
Nothing against the Greeks, but sometimes they can be full of shit.

>>51579316
I don't know, just plain accepting history is fake and propaganda without hoping to discover the truth is probably reasonable but seems defeatist.

>>51579375
>>>>>>>>>sometimes

>>51579375
Well, it all amounts to >>51579358 , because we don't have any detailed accounts of Ishtar worship from the Babylonians themselves.

>>51579358
>when we only have one source we have to assume that it's the truth
Said no academic ever, thank God.

>>51579407
Then we must assume much of what we know about history is innately entirely false, eh?

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>>51579081
10/10
will worship

>>51579400
A quick research tells me that some researchers believe it may not even happened. Kinda boring.

>>51579431
Well yes, that's also part of only having one source. Researchers will doubt it, but they can't discount it entirely.

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>>51579081
mmmmhyes

>>51579418
Like the Hanging Gardens of Babylon and the Colossus of Rhodes and that Marie Antoinette said "let them eat cake"? Indisputable facts, all, because a source said them.

>>51579418

Just untrustworthy.

>>51579451
First two have presented no archeological proof, which is important for standing architecture, while as a cultural practice this forced prostitution wouldn't necessarily do so. And the Marie Antoinette line is directly contradicted by other sources.

>>51579451
Except you're defeating your own point here. The only actual source we have for the "let them eat cake" quote (or something even remotely like that) is one of Rousseau's works, where an unnamed princess says that. There is not a single historical source connecting Marie-Antoinette to this phrase.

>>51579375
Especially since the primary suspect here is good old Herodotus, who had a famously cavalier attitude towards accuracy and reliability.

>>51579418
Look, you can't just bullshit your way out of this one.

>>51579418
Well, we do.

>>51579508
What bullshit? You either have to accept its true, or just throw your hands up in the air. You can't actually refute it without more sources.

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>>51579186
your waifu a shit. filthy heathen needs to understand that the forests of the world belong to Volla. the Wardens of Avalon will see your 'goddess' properly disposed of, and your daughters taught by the Mothers of Avalon.

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>>51579081
>War + Love = Rape
Took you that long to realize it, huh?

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>>51579186
>>51579599
I heard there was war and love and came as hard as I could. Is this where the party is?

>>51579111
>>51579173

I don't see how the Babylonian religion isn't the most /r9k/ ever.

Worship centered on Uruk-- the city of whores. Possible /tg/ side note: Tolkien uses the word Uruk to refer to the largest, most powerful warrior orcs, especially those who might possibly have been bred with humans. Tolkien was a scholar and a devout Christian, so there's basically no chance at all that this isn't an intentional reference to a city and empire that the Bible detests. Oh, and among many other reasons, one reason given for the biblical Flood was the interbreeding between humans and beings translated variously as angelic/demonic/giants.*

Anyway, Ishtar was basically a Stacy before /r9k/ came up with the idea. A sex goddess who has a ton of lovers, all of whom she treats like crap: they suffer to make her happy when they're together, and then she gives them grisly punishments when she gets bored of them. When Gilgamesh refused her advances, citing what happens to people who sleep with her, she goes to elaborate lengths to sentence HIM to grisly punishments, too.

Someone who triggers violence and wars over her constantly bouts of crazy, and who probably presides over the orgy of retributive hate-sex that came with war.**

She's the perfect /r9k/ deity. I can see why the ancient Hebrews were so eager to stamp Ishtar-worship out, and why it was so prevalent anyway.


*Actually, while I gave the Christian view that tolkien would have held, the hebrew translations and talmudic interpretations of the passage are entirely different. Tolkien would have been well aware of this interpretation of scripture as well; it's probably while all three unions of Elves and Men involved the elf being the wife (and Melian was the Maia wife in her marriage to the Elf Thingol), to avoid an unwanted parallel with the biblical passage.

** I don't just mean post-conquest rape of conquered women. In the middle east, it was customary in antiquity to rape the POWs of a defeated army.

>>51579599
>Yet another matriarchal nature deity
yawn

>>51579555
The simple fact that all surviving Babylonian sources fail to talk about how every woman must get publicly deflorated before marriage is proof enough that it was bullshit, just like his story about dog-sized ants and one-legged people using their comically oversized feet as umbrellas.
Nor do the people they conquered, such as the Hebrews, complain about the horrific practice imposed upon them. They mention that they shouldn't let their daughters and sons become sacred prostitutes, which confirms that sacred prostitution did exist (Babylonian sources also mention them) but not that it was compulsory or widespread. They just shunned it like they shunned all foreign gods or practices (or didn't, because the Old Testament is basically one long rant about how Hebrews never listened to what "God" told them and embraced the most depraved foreign practices with much enthusiasm.)

But even beyond that, it's your entire conception of the method of historical inquiry that I'm mocking. It's not like in hard sciences where you got an experimental result and you're not sure if it's a fluke or a general rule before you replicate it, but at least you have something like concrete evidence to work with. History rarely works with concrete evidence so you need some critical thinking just to know what sources you should accept and under what caveats. If you're reading some Pharaoh's victory poem that talks about how he used his 50 foot long schlong to clobber an entire army before spitroasting all their women with it and you decide to take it as gospel until you find contradictory evidence, you're just not cut out to be a historian.

>>51579555
>someone wrote it, and no one contradicts it
>thus you have to accept it is true

even you're smarter than that anon

>>51579805
The difference is that Babylon thought all of this was a good thing.

>>51579831
Babylon hardly ever talks about how their own worship worked. You get myths and legends but they never talk about temple worship, probably because they figured it so normal and mundane it wasn't worth detailing. They weren't writing for an audience thousands of years into the future.

>>51579316
>>51579355

Barbarian DID mean uncivilized to a Greek. Those stupid furriners had no philosophy, mathematics, humanism, or infanticide. They weren't necessarily illiterate, but they were certainly less civilized (over and above the fact that most lacked a "civil" or city-based culture, even the ones that had large cities).

But you're right that plenty of other societies were literate. It's just that most civilizations had no historians. The Egyptians did, but lied on purpose for religious/propaganda/post-modernist reasons. The Persians were a tolerant polyglot empire that had a thousand blasphemies and bizarre local practices. The Phoenicians and Jews were literate but probably were the ones who told the greeks how awful the Cult of Ishtar was to begin with.

And, just because it sounds bad to modern ears doesn't mean it's a lie or exaggeration.

In general, though, you're right. The old saying is wrong. History is written by the historians, and those aren't always the victors.

>>51579805
>Gilgamesh
Man Rule No1 - Don't stick your dick in crazy.

>>51579407

I'm an academic, and I'd sign on with what he said. If you have one source making an assertion, and nothing in the record contradicts it, and I'd add nothing we know about human practices contradict it, then you can TENTATIVELY accept it.

Look up the practices of the ancient Arabs pre-Islam, and you'll see all kinds of similar customs. Some mandated by the law of the time and that sound ridiculous to our ears, those of their own contemporaries in other cultures, and to their own descendants. There's only fifteen hundred years and zero changes of ethnicity and geography that separate those peoples.

There's hot debate over whether Ishtar's cult had prostitutes at all, whether forced prostitution occurred, and whether it involved brides-to-be. Multiple sources on both sides. So I'd call all this "possible but unconfirmed" until the experts unearth more data or achieve consensus on the issue.

Meanwhile, as an RPG convention, you follow Rule of Cool as always.

>>51579450
>Gap in her armor detected... will have to spear/10

>>51579081
Love is Violence. It's not hard to see why. Two opposing forces clashing together are often violent.

>>51579358

Shit, that means we need to assume headless giants really did exist because some drunk Greek motherfucker said so?

>>51579876
This isn't even about worship, it's about what would have been an important rite of passage in their culture. It's like refusing to talk about marriage or funerals.

>>51579946
>Those stupid furriners had no philosophy, mathematics, humanism, or infanticide.
Tell that to Xenophon and his manboner for Cyrus.

>It's just that most civilizations had no historians.
They still had people writing about laws and morality or otherwise mentioning daily life, even indirectly or in passing. Silence is often telling.

>>51580141
>manboner for Cyrus
EVERYONE had a manboner for Cyrus. To the Ancients, he was like our Julius, Augustus, or Constantine. Only a lot more popular with foreigners due to not feeling like he had to make people worship his predecessors.

>>51579861

You can't tell me that /r9k/ doesn't secretly revel in their inflated fantasies of being dominated and humiliated by women, society, and Chad.

>>51580037

And he and Enkidu still got punished anyway.

>>51580179
Of course. The point was that they looked upon Olde Persia with the same admiration (and upon contemporary Persia with the same disgust) that modern Europeans used to look at ancient India and China before they grew out of their orientalizing phase. It wasn't all about Cyrus in particular, just like Romaboos don't simply suck Cesar's dick in particular, it was about the virtues of the entire society that birthed the man.

>>51580072
I'm also an academic and this guy is wrong.

>>51580179

This. He's the only non-Jew in the Torah ever referred to as a Messiah. Another oblique but very likely Tolkien reference is that the Persian Emperors were often called the Gardener Kings. Also they were "crownless" in that they wore diadems; the subsequent idea of a crown was invented as a kind of variant one-upped version of the Persian practice because the Persians and especially Cyrus basically set the standard for the Western ideal of kingship.

You wouldn't know it from looking at how modern Iran runs its affairs, but Persia as a powerful and respected nation is still something that's within living memory. That's even though the Shahs weren't exactly paragons of good government. Even Iran, governed as it is, has proven to be wily and dangerous.

>>51580289
Well hey, let's be fair to everyone here. Modern China is an oppressive dictatorship that goes out of its way to act like a dick to everyone, Iran is an oppressive Islamic dictatorship that not only acts like a dick to everyone but rants about how infidels don't deserve to live, and modern India forgot how to use the toilet.

>>51580226
I still would love to see a series based on the adventures of Gilgamesh, Enkidu and Prometheus just traveling the world annoying the local gods and running the fuck away from everything. Especially Ishtar, crazy bitch that she is.

First episode would be breaking Prometheus out of prison by banging on his chains with Mjölnir that Enkidu stole from a passed out drunk Thor.

They do nothing particularly world changing beyond annoy a lot of people.

I think it's interesting how that was a facet of ancient religions that we've just completely forgotten.

Freyja was goddess of love, and held dominion over half of all warriors. A war goddess, called upon for favour in war.

Bast was a warrior goddess before she and Sekhmet started differentiation.

Turan is the Goddess of love and strength.

Same with the link ancient people's placed upon the link between love and death, except among the practitioners of Vodou.

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>>51579081
>*laughter becomes increasingly yandere in volume*

>>51580289
I would add that the flaws the Greeks typically attributed to their barbarian rivals were the sort of flaws that will plague civilized urbanized people such as effeminacy, hedonism, godlessness and over-sophistication.
Greeks before the Hellinistic period were basically the Russians of their time, shitting on their much more prosperous and advanced but decadent neighbors.

>>51579081
Taking the phrase 'love is a battlefield' to a whole new level.

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>>51580395
Don't forget Morríghan, at one point she was /tg/'s Brythonic waifu. She was all about the sex and violence.

>>51580395

And even today we have odes to love and rockets via the Voice of Ash:

"My head is full of magic, and I can't share this with you: I feel I'm on top again; that's got everything to do with you"

You can see the marriage of powerful forces of nuclear missiles and raw sexual desire, causing someone to feel alive. Oh, so alive.

>>51580332
Not only kingship but the Western conception of empire derives from the Persian one. When the Greco-Romans looked for a way to organize beyond their city states, the Persian model was what they studied for inspiration.

>>51580312

You're clearly not or there'd have been three opinions between the two of us.

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>God of war and peace

>>51579081
Literally Slaanesh.

>>51580497
Well some form of Persia has always been their rival. From the Greeks, to the Romans, to the Byzantines, there was generally a Persia to the east they vied with.

Real shame about the arabs eating them and spitting out the present husk.

>>51580332
>Persia as a powerful and respected nation is still something that's within living memory
Anon, no one still alive was old enough to find the Ottoman Empire on a map in 1920. It's been generations since anyone has thought of the Middle East as anything but a complete mess.

>>51580633
>Ottoman Empire
>Persia
No. I don't think they ever even claimed that, like they did with their bullshit Rome claims that absolutely nobody believed at any point.

>>51580359
India didn't forget to use the toilet, their religion says that anyone who isnt upper class will go to hell for using one. Big difference, if Hinduism was a proselytizing, conquering religion no one would even notice the muslims.

>>51579311
Man it doesn't even get to standard harem, just kinda dicks around with the concept and focuses almost entirely on near-propaganda levels of JSDF circlejerking.

It was pretty cool to see dragons get absolutely BTFO by jets though.

>>51580665
>their religion says that anyone who isnt upper class will go to hell for using one
I don't think that's the case. At least I've never heard of it, and I know their government (Which is basically almost entirely made up of the upper castes) are trying desperately to get the stupid peasants to shit in the toilets.

>No one would notice the muslims
Nah Hindus can drink like all other civilized peoples.

>>51580665
>India didn't forget to use the toilet, their religion says that anyone who isnt upper class will go to hell for using one
That's taking the whole caste system nonsense to a frightening level.

>>51579418
>Then we must assume much of what we know about history is innately entirely false, eh?
Most of ancient history at least.

>>51580700
>Hindus can drink like all other civilized peoples.
This is the big difference.

The socializing. Sequestering you and your own among your own in your own little socially walled off section does nothing to make people think you aren't a fucking tosser.

>>51580497
This is in error, and it annoys me how much it is error.

It is true that the Roman imperial figure would take huge, huuuuuge cues from the Persian King of Kings, but that really only happened after the empire was split.

Similar institutions developed, yes, but they developed independently, such as the imperial cult and the divine nature of the king of kings, other didn't of course.
The institution of bowing, or kneeling, or supplication in front of the monarch is of course Persian in origin from the perspective of the west, but the actual institution of how the the actual power of the emperor worked was completely different.

The Roman model is based on republicanism, and all of the offices until they gave up the pretense were based either in military term or republican offices.
Augustus, and the rest of the Julio-Claudian dynasty didn't hold "supreme power". Augustus held the power of Consul, and later Tribune and Proconsul in perpetuity.

It was an appropriation of republican powers, as were the later officers which became proto-feudal.

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>>51579358
You don't understand how history works, do you?

People are obligated to assume absolutely nothing, no matter how much evidence is piled up to support it. Of course, deliberately turning a blind eye to lots of evidence to insist upon a specific narrative is foolish to say the least, but there's nobody stopping you from doing it unless you live in one of those dumb Yuropoor countries that criminalize holocaust denial or something.

In order to build up a historical narrative that's decently sturdy, especially if you want to build up a narrative so sturdy that you'd have to be pants-on-head retarded to deny it, you really need to bring a lot of evidence to the table -- high-quality evidence, too.

What makes an evidence high-quality? Well, a number of things.
The first criterion is that evidence should be trustworthy. Roman accounts of the pagan rites of the countries they were conquering should obviously be taken cum grano salis. Of course the Romans would want to paint the barbarians as decadent savages, so that the Roman public would want to keep the war justified in the eyes of the people back home.
The second criterion is that any evidence supported by multiple independent sources is of higher import. If both sides' record of a battle is the same, then that's likely a pretty accurate description of the battle. If you can find a common thread throughout multiple sources that are unlikely to have influenced each other, then that's a big point in favor of that narrative.

Any contradicting report is judged on all those same terms, and we then use whichever one wins out to form an idea of what we think actually happened. The greater margin by which it wins out, the more solid that final conclusion is.

We have exactly one, quite flimsy source saying that Babylonian women were required to lose their virginity as temple prostitutes before getting married. That barely tips the scale at all.

>>51580793
You're of course not pointing out the most damning point.

The idea that the enemy lets privileged men fuck brides to be is literally on of the most common form of propaganda.

>>51579289
Really sorry but i prefer Conquest of Elysium better.

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>>51580467
>that picture
wtf

>>51580844
I ran out of characters. But yeah, that's an example of how our idea fails the first criterion

>>51579508
Dinnae be slagging ol' Hero D.

His Histories may have been quite fanciful in places, but at least Herodotus generally doesn't pretend to know anything exactly.
He's very careful to qualify what he wrote with "Well X says that..." or "The people of Y say such-and-such, which is contradicted by the people of Z"

>>51579337
>The true problem is being a virgin and not an angry misogynist.
/r9k/ is hated because of how much sexist, whiny and entitled most people there are, not only because they are virgins.
And obviously you can be good at getting laid AND still be this kind of asshole.

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>>51579081
Am I the only one that thought of this ?

>>51580930
>they can't get laid because they're sexist
>they're sexist because they can't get laid

Kinda chicken and egg desu

>>51579167
but only when it's inside her

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>>51580901
I stole it from /tg/ some time ago.

Her, have some sex and violence to make up for it.

>>51580955
The entitlement causes the inability to get laid, which adds the whining and sexism to the mix. Or at least, that's how I've seen it play out.

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>>51580970
Requiem is so fucking good.

>>51580955
>>51581017
They're both first symptoms of youth and inexperience, then they become the results of years of negative thinking and unwillingness to change.

>>51581028
Reminder that this woman and this werewolf have fucked.

>>51579081
Freya, Ishtar, Hera (goddess of conflict and marriage, hows that for you?), Kali (motherhood and murder), Four of the Heavenly Generals of the Celestial Bureaucracy, etc, etc.

This is not only not a new concept, it's a fucking widespread one.

>>51579111
There is a simple flowchart about knowledge passed by Greeks

1. Does the information comes from Herodotus or script based on him?
>Yes: It's bullshit
>No: Go to question 2

2. Does it concern women?
>Yes: It's bullshit
>No: Go to question 3

3. Was it written by at least three people who were there and operated in the same time period?
>Yes: There's a solid chance it's true.
>No: It's bullshit

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>>51581131
Everybody has fucked Lady Claudia.

>>51580700
>(Which is basically almost entirely made up of the upper caste

It's actually not.
It's super weird, but the middle class which makes up the bulk of government employees are largely lower caste.
Because affirmative action and similar things are based on caste.
Which means there are economic advantages to being lower caste, which means a lot of people suddenly discover that they are less civilized or whatever.

>>51579358
That's now how history works. Unless you are Japanese, who for purely practical reasons pretend one source is enough (they can't produce 2nd source for first 3 centuries of their history) but nobody takes Japanese claims seriously anyway.

>>51580930
Believe it or not - I only know about that board from other people. So can't say for their demographics and behavior, but when I see them mentioned, it is "virgins" most of the time.
>>51581017
>>51581069
Sexism was and is a part of any culture, at any point of time. Great people of different stature, excelling in different fields, had the same views of women as majority of common men had back then, and have today. And when I propose that such prejudice maybe has some truth, I'm immediately branded as "youth" and as "inexperienced". This tickles me, even though my shitty pun wasn't about it at all. If anything, even from my personal experience, the better I got with women, the more chauvinistic I became.

>>51581272
Nice try, brahmin scum

>>51581069

Well, regardless; time for me to go over to /r9k/ and make some permavirgins sperg out and cry. I keep telling them: if they keep shitting up /tg/, I'm going to keep triggering them.

>>51580432
>posting homoshit
>>>/out/

>>51581169
Most of those descended from the same Indo-European deity. It's just that they developed differently over time. Freya became associated with magic as well as developing a softer personality and a reputation for fidelity, Hera became faithful and restricted her violence to conniving against her cheating husband, Ishtar became a psychotic monster that epitomizes everything negative about sexuality, and Kali simply because the alter-ego of a perfect waifu goddess when she flips her shit and goes all 'purge the daemon, burn the heretic' mode.

>>51581272
>affirmative action
I see this cancer plagues India too.

>>51579479
>>51579495
I think he was being sarcastic. I think.

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>>51580395
>>51581169
>This is not only not a new concept, it's a fucking widespread one.
So what about Khorne?

>>51579081
>Goddess of war, love and trickery
>Motto "All is fair in love and war"

>>51581499
That's Nurgle's bag.

>>51580072
I'm an Academic too, and I know if I knew what the fuck I was talking about I wouldn't call myself an academic.

>>51581458
No.

None of this is true.

>Freya became associated with magic as well as developing a softer personality and a reputation for fidelity,

You're mixing up Freyja and Frigg.
Freyja has no reputation for fidelity.
Remember Loki? Remember what he said?

>Hera became faithful and restricted her violence to conniving against her cheating husband

No, Hera fucking hated the Trojans as a result of Paris picking Aphrodite, and directly intervenes in favour of the Greeks.

Indeed Hera was willing to dress up as someone else and fuck Zeus AS THAT OTHER PERSON in order to punish Paris.

>>51581653
>Freyja has no reputation for fidelity.
You don't know anything about the legends surrounding her and her husband.

>Remember Loki?
I remember the Lokasenna, which is an obviously humoristic parody poem, something the vikings were well aware of and practices often, which contains blatant contradictions with the actual myths we know of in some places. The Lokasenna is not serious myth. Do not treat it like it is. It's a joke, meant to make your drunk viking ass laugh your ass off during a feast.

>>51579599
>Not glorious Bodhisattva of Mercy
>Not righteous Virtue
It's like you WANT to be filthy tree-fucking hippies rather than civilized...

>>51579770
Oh GOD, who invited him?! Go back to Pangaea already!

>>51581724
>You don't know anything about the legends surrounding her and her husband.

You mean the husband she pinned for all those years, while still fucking a bunch of other people?
You mean that husband?

>>51581724
>I remember the Lokasenna, which is an obviously humoristic parody poem,

I remember the gods being so pissed about it they condemned him to eternal torture, and that a bunch of the allegations were "true".

>>51582134
>while still fucking a bunch of other people?
Point to the myths.

If you're a retard and point at the one about dwarves most scholars think was invented by Christian monks then I get to laugh at you.

>>51582154
Within the context of the humerous poem, you mean? Even the people who found and translated the thing don't think it's actual myth. It's like saying Christians can't watch a TV show about Jesus or whatever.

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>>51579081

>>51582212
Sauce? Reverse gave me nothing

>>51582227
Rin Tohsaka of Fate/Stay Night as the goddess Ishtar in Fate/Grand Order.

>>51580226
Only after they killed the Bull of Heaven.

Gilgamesh got away mostly scot-free anyway, Enkidu bit it

>>51581336
>when I propose that such prejudice maybe has some truth, I'm immediately branded as "youth" and as "inexperienced". This tickles me

Why does every one of you creepy fuckers have to sound like you're some kind of enchanted doorknob trying to tell a riddle or something?

Speak plainly, you raving autist

>>51579831
The laws of Hammurabi make a connection between "devotet women", "sisters of a god" and prostitutes, and there's also the letter of Jeremiah:

>The women also, sitting in the ways with cords around themselves, burn bran for perfume; but if any of them, drawn by someone who passes by, should lie with him, she reproaches her peer, because she was not thought as worthy as herself, nor her cord broken.

>>51582180
OH YOU MEAN LIKE HOW MOST OF THE MYTHS WE KNOW ABOUT WERE WRITTEN DOWN BY CHRISTIANS?
YOU MEAN LIKE THAT?

YOU MEAN THE ONE THAT WE CLEARLY KNOW WAS WRITTEN DOWN BY PRIESTS BECAUSE THEY FUCKING WROTE THEMSELVES DOWN AS THE AUTHORS?
YOU MEAN THAT?

>Within the context of the humerous poem, you mean? Even the people who found and translated the thing don't think it's actual myth. It's like saying Christians can't watch a TV show about Jesus or whatever.

Except of course, that the Lokasenna is clearly as much a part from the "Lore" as everything else.
The only difference is whether you believe Loki or not, and the thing is that the defence for her sleeping around isn't that she didn't do it, but that fucking others isn't shameful.

>>51582363
No one is actually denying that sacred prostitutes aka slutty nuns exist here. We were discussing the alleged practice of systematically cucking themselves before their wedding which was almost certainly greek propaganda.

>>51582415
The one the scholars doubt was ever actually real, yes.

>IF YOU BELIEVE LOKI
Then you're missing the point of the poem. Why do you think satire was a foreign concept to pre-modern peoples? You're just being stubborn and ignorant. Scholars don't agree with you. Nobody thinks this poem is serious.

>>51582479
You keep saying "Scholars say X", but they don't, you're saying something and it's wrong

The Lokisenna directly sets up events that happen in later parts of the edda, it has direct continuity.
Loki's claims may be funny, and they may be untrue, but the thing itself is as "canon" as it can be, and the consensus you seem to believe exists is about whether Loki is right.

>>51580141
>Silence is often telling.
Do you have any idea how many untranslated cuneiform tablets there are? Do you have any idea how much written material from various cultures has been lost one way or another, just in the ways that we specifically know about? The "silence" you refer to doesn't tell us anything except that we're practically deaf.

>>51582564
Read Lee M. Hollander's work on the Lokasenna. Again, people that know far more than you think you're a moron.

>>51582625
...
You mean his 1928 translation which makes no such claim?

>>51582677
You haven't read his work if you think that. Just googled and found out that it existed, huh?

>>51582415
You seem to have a strong desire to have the Norse gods be shitbags.

>>51579100
Rape

>>51579153
>ancap they aren't going to prostitute themselves meme

>>51582845
No, I mean, the gods being shitbags is undisputed.
I mean they're gods, from a time where people had to make sense of disease, catastrophes, natural phenomenons, and the inequities of the world.

This tends to pump out gods that are shitbags from a modern perspective.

Although none of what I said relates to the gods being shitbags.

>>51582823
Hello Mr. Imax.
You're wrong, you've been wrong on everything so far, you've claimed first that a myth was made up by monks being the consensus of scholars as if it was some sort of thing that required consideration, when we KNOW it was written down by priests because they wrote down as the fucking authors, you've claimed the Lokasenna is satirical when it's not and you've backed this up with an imagined source.

>>51579805
Any religious inferences like turkey being the dark lands are just inferences and NOT what Tolkien consciously wanted

>>51582917
>No, I mean, the gods being shitbags is undisputed.
You're someone raised and weaned on Greek myth, huh? Sorry to break it to you, but plenty of pantheons didn't have deities being dickbags to everyone all the time for no reason.

Look at the Hindu or Egyptian pantheon. All the good deities are pretty friendly with humans. Even the Norse gods generally palled around with and helped the norse, instead of fucking them over out of pride.

>>51582917
>you've claimed first that a myth was made up by monks being the consensus of scholars as if it was some sort of thing that required consideration, when we KNOW it was written down by priests because they wrote down as the fucking authors
This is only a point of debate because you want to be 'right' and ignore my point. That it was an invention. It wasn't a real myth anyone believed in. Instead of debating the point you complain about my language. Intellectual dishonesty.

>you've claimed the Lokasenna is satirical when it's not
Prove it.
>and you've backed this up with an imagined source.
You've backed yourself up with no sources and refuse to read mine. So don't pretend you have a leg up on me.

>>51580091
What a faggy thing to say.

>>51583090
Someone has never hatefucked before.

>>51579805
Hmm....
citation needed...
citation needed...
citation definitely fucking needed...
look, if you're just going to assume that Michael Moorcock and Neal Stephenson, of all fucking people, did all the research for you...
well, I guess at that point, you fit right in with the normal 'rigorous' academic standards of this place.

>>51579946
History is written by any asshole who says he's writing history.
The histories you can buy in a bookstore on the 'History' shelf today make Herodotus look like the pinnacle of peer-reviewed and highly-sourced.

>>51579081
>trying to control both love and hatred so you can rule over all mortal minds

Why would you do this? Isn't one enough?

>>51580953
No, Waifus are the new gods after all.
When the machines take over, it will be behind the faces of our 2D SOs and we will accept their rule.

>>51582954
I was specifically talking about the Norse.

The forces of chaos, as represented by Jotunn, hold equal sway and they ARE dickbags, even if we ignore the fact that Odin does in fact fuck people over out of pride (Or for fun, or out of revenge on unrelated people. Like that time he raped an innocent girl to create an avenger for Baldr), and Thor kills people for sport, and so on.
They aren't malevolent in the same way that Greek gods can be, sure, but that's because they shoved such parts unto Jotunn, who can be equally powerful.
They didn't need Odin or Frigg to be the one who tortures the dead, like Persephone is in Greek mythology, they had Hel. But Hel is a god.

But the gods of the Norse are still prideful, are still mercurial, and will still renege on deals, lie, steal, cheat, and kill.

>>51582992
No, you prove your shit. Because you haven't. Instead of asking me to prove a negative.

>This is only a point of debate because you want to be 'right' and ignore my point. That it was an invention. It wasn't a real myth anyone believed in. Instead of debating the point you complain about my language. Intellectual dishonesty.

No, the point is that most of this was written down by Christians, and instead of confronting that fact you made up a consensus to confront a specific thing.

>>51579876
Ours probably out there you just haven't read it

>>51583270
*its

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>>51583234
No. No! Noooooo! That's not true! That's impossible!

Nooooooooooooooo!

>>51583235
>The forces of chaos, as represented by Jotunn, hold equal sway and they ARE dickbags
Yes, they aren't the gods you're worshiping though. That's the main reason the Hindu and Norse pantheons are relatively positive, all the evil bullshit is foisted on an enemy deity race. Greeks on the other hand hoisted all the bad on their main gods.

>>51583235
>Because you haven't
If you refuse to read my sources I can't argue with you, because you're being intentionally ignorant at that point.

>>51583235
>Thor kills people for sport
Thor kills giants for sport. He was specifically considered a protector god for humans.

>>51581499
Sorry, I don't deal in organized chaos gods, only actual chaos gods.

>>51583379
I have read your source, it doesn't say what you claim it does.

>>51583368
I think you need to read the rest of my post.

>>51583404
Thor changes the favours of warriors so that they die to settle bets IIRC.
Or was Odin?
I forget.

>>51583452
Odin was fate and death. So you are almost certainly thinking of him.

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>>51581400
Why not? This board tolerates animu and /pfg/, why not homosuck?

It's arguably no more degenerate than either.

>>51583630
Like anything on /tg/, a small group wants it gone and everyone else doesn't care.

With the exception of /pol/, who everyone unanimously wants gone except for /pol/.

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>>51579081
you telling me you don't want to pray to the same goddess for both victory in battle and success in courtship?

>>51583727
Izzat Bellona?

>>51583772
not sure. I just know she's a hero in SMITE

Which culture she's from, I do not know. Greek i think?


I just saved it because that look she shoots you at the end is HNNNG inducing.

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>>51579081
>War & love?

>>51579111
the Greeks thought everything that wasn't Greek was barbaric. They also thought that everything that wasn't their specific part of Greece was barbaric. They also thought everything that wasn't them personally was barbaric.

>>51583727
>>51583772
>>51583796
Yes, Bellona. Roman Goddess of War and consort to Aries. "Her main attribute is the military helmet worn on her head; she often holds a sword, spear or shield, and brandishes a torch or whip as she rides into battle in a four-horse chariot."- Wikipedia

>>51584097
Fuck those guys, I'm going to go worship Moloch.

>>51584355
She was essentially Roman Enyo