/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

What about Lance and board valor bard?

>>51533020
No thread prompt, pastebin still cut off. 0/10, try again.

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>>51533038
>the Pastebin link has been fucked up for three threads because someone salty over the Discord fucked up removing it
Good lord.

>Pastebin with resources and so on:
http://pastebin.com/X1TFNxck

>/5eg/ Discord server
https://discord.gg/0rRMo7j6WJoQmZ1b

>>51533033
Yeah why not.
You can eventually use your secrets to find a steed.
Booming blade as a bonus action eventually? Does that work?

Has there been conversion work of PF APs into 5e?

>>51533280
If there has, it's never been posted to /5eg/.

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How OP is the Tunnel Fighter + Sentinel + Polearm Master combo? It seems very powerful.

>>51533157
Booming blade has the range of 5 feet. You need spell sniper if you want to use it with reach weapon.

How should I go about making an Eldritch Knight.

>>51533309
Then make it happen senpai.

>>51533318
It's a fighter that uses his reactions defensively via spells. Go in knowing that, and you'll be fine.

>>51533318
Make a fighter. Pick up a melee cantrip and Shield and then fill up the rest with whatever you want. And you're done.

You can invest in high int if you want, but it's kind of a waste of resources since you basically never want to actually cast offensive spells anyway.

>>51533388
Absorb elements is a decent idea to pick up as well.

Any of you guys try Rune Scribe? How is it?

Should my Gunsmith Artificer be a Lizardman or a High Elf?

Lizardman for sure.

>>51533578
Gunsmith I'd definitely go Helf.

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just how bullshit can you make a caster in 5e?

>>51533648
Pretty bullshit if your game gets past level 11.
Most games don't.

But at least they're pretty squishy. So if you DM your enemies to be intelligent you can still bring them down in a combat.

>>51533280
That'd be a pretty huge undertaking... Or would it be?

What exactly would you need to do? You could straight-up rip the plot, but you'd have to find proper replacements for the enemies and the likes. And, I guess, subsystems if you converted something like Kingmaker.

>>51533668
>most games don't

maybe because u have shit friends lm@o

>>51533648
Very, but far less so than in previous editions due to the concentration mechanic and lack of "save or die" effects.

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Why do people claim bard is the best caster? Tomelock has the option for more spellsper day and arguably more spell versitility by a mile

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>>51533742
because not only you're a spellcaster, you can fuck everything in your path.

>>51533742
Bards aren't limited by the number of short rests and ritual scrolls their DM hands out.

>>51533742
>versatility
>exactly 2 slots after any given rest

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>>51533761
Any CHA-based class can fuuuuuuck

>>51533774
They are limited to long rests and every class is limited by a shitty DM

>>51533648
While Casters are still better at high levels, martials ARE a needed part of a good party, unlike 3.pf where they are obsoleted entirely.

A pure caster party will simply not have enough DPR on a consistent basis to function when combat does happen.

>>51533804
>shitty DM
>supposed to have 1-2 short rests for a 6-8 encounter day

You can, on average, cast less than one spell per encounter. Its your trump card, or out of combat versatility, while bards are full casters AND have other cool options.

They are also the games best healers, picking up an early Aura of Vitality, and the most versatile class in the game.

The only classes they don't really compete with are straight damage monsters like BM fighter or rogue.

>>51533790
>2 slots
>most of which last extended durations providing concentration holds up
>hour long rests are much more common in an adventuring day than an eight hour long rests
>not to mention all the ritual spells that you can pick up along the way and from fellow PCs
>versatility

>>51533863
>not including rod of the pact keeper's free spell
>not including all the at-will invocations
>versa-fucking-tility

>>51533944
You're overvaluing the maximum potential of the Warlock and comparing that to the bare minimum potential of a Bard.

>>51533698
My games go to 20, friendo.
But wizards have said most games don't see high level play.

>>51533944
>magical christmasland

>>51533807
>A pure caster party will simply not have enough DPR on a consistent basis to function when combat does happen.
THIS, for sure. Once the bard, wizard and cleric had to fight a bunch of giant spiders and ettercaps, without the rest of the party (fighter and rogue). Long story short, they took too long to kill anything and got their asses handed to them. The cleric DIED.

>>51533968
>because every bard is going to take aura of vitality to optimize their healing
suuuuuure

>>51533975
>a reasonable DM giving a class an item specifically made for them
>unrealistic
suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure

>>51533840
>cast less than one spell per encounter
Have you even read the warlock class? They get two by at latest fifth level and I don't know where this no short rest meme comes from. Every party that I'm with is out of combat for at least half of their adventuring day and half of that time is spent resting... shortly.

>>51534041
Congratulations, your DM gives you items tailored for you, AND ignores the standard encounter to rest ratio. You aren't playing the game under the normal circumstances, and thus your short rest combatants are going to be stronger than usual.

>>51533992
Sure, but then you can no longer pretend to be having a balance discussion

Or more accurately,
>>51533968

>>51533984
No man, just look. You're working on the assumption that you're getting at least 3 short rests a day, and that your DM is being exceptionally generous in giving you access to a large selection of rituals.

The Bard class doesn't require any assumptions other than a single 8hour long rest every day, otherwise known as "a good night's sleep." The Bard will know more spells than you, has better skill selection than you, has innate access to decent rituals just from their own class spell list, have more slots available to them in any given situation until the end of the day.

>>51533648
They can break the game with summon spells, but honestly I've never played in a game with someone who will really summon 8 wolves and shit out DPR like no tomorrow.
Except myself, and the campaign died a few sessions after the first and only time I cast it.

>>51533020
If megaanon sees this, i noticed that 5etools lists multiple domains as doing
>radiant
damage for the Divine Strike feature that shouldn't. War, Tempest, Trickery all do different damage types.

>>51533807
Yep the wizard might be able to lay down some sick burst a few times a day and control the field.

But you need your martials to really lay down the solid dps.

A group with a few martials backed by their casters are a nightmare for large creatures

>>51534058
>congratulations
thanks, but my party decides when they rest and our watch is set up well enough (thanks to the warlock's alarm ritual) that we rarely ever get surprised. I thought that DMs making sure every player has a chance to shine now and again was how the game was supposed to go.

>>51534068
If your party has a warlock and even more so if you have a monk or even a fighter you want those short rests.

And if your party does not support that they are hamstringing you.

>>51534109
It isn't a party thing, its a DM ALLOWING you to short rest all the damned time thing.

The reason the alternate rest timing rules exist is specifically for campaigns where you aren't expecting to fight 6-8 times a day, but rather a week. The math is always supposed to tend towards a
>encounter - encounter - short, encounter - encounter - short, encounter - encounter - long
scenario.

If it isn't your personal experience WILL demonstrate a short rest based character being stronger in comparison than it normally is. Even more so if your items line up perfectly, which isn't expected in 5e.

>>51534109
>Not being at maximum potential in every encounter is being hamstrung

>>51534082
Precisely, and it's a large part of how you manage fighting a handful of strong enemies.

>upcast Hold Monster
>if even one fails, martials pile on
It's my favorite thing about playing my War Cleric, especially since i can get a free crit off of Spiritual Weapon for that added oomph.

>>51534141
>the normal encouner to short rest ratio
>warlock getting six spells per long rest by level two
>WARLOCKS ARE BAD CUZ THEY GET TWO SPELLS PER DAY
suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure

>>51534182
You DO realize that at level 3 a full caster accomplishes the same, right?

>>51534182
>Six spells per long rest
And actual caster classes will outstrip that in sheer number of slots available very early on.

>>51533668
> caster
> squishy
depend anon. Moon Druid and Forge Cleric aren't squishy at all.

>>51534194
Allow me to clarify
>Six level 2 spells by second level
>As many first level rituals as you can snag by level 3
What was your argument again?

>>51533742
Bard counterspell Warlock twice.
The bard still have like 10 slot left, warlock has 0.

Working on an Underdark game, and I'm wondering.

How many slaves would a Noble house of Menzoberranzan have?

>>51534226
And let's just ignore the warlock eldritch blasting the bard to hell and back

>>51533742
Warlock can't summon a horse that shoot meteor.
Warlock can't animate deads and heal them.
Warlock can't counterspell with + half proficiency
Warlock can't banishing smite and swift quiver
Warlock can't ......

>>51534223
Ignoring that the wizard has arcane recovery.
Ignoring that this ratio gets worse as the long rest caster gets levels.

True the warlock might get more higher level slots but they lack variety.

Great you used 2 3rd level spells...the wizard has still got options for lower slots and the warlock is now a EB machine (nothing wrong with that tho)

>>51534223
I mean, you aren't even being correct right now.
You don't get level 2 slots until level 3, no matter what class.

So at level 2, you have 6 spells per long rest.
At level 2 you know 3 spells.

At level 2 as a wizard you have 3 spells per long rest.
At level 2 you know a minimum of 8 spells, and, assuming you are actually tying to be a wizard, likely can memorize 4-5 spells.

So even at level 2, you lose in versatility, and this is the highest number of casts you get in comparison to a full caster.
At level 3 your versatility is even lower in comparison, although your mechanic spell power is slightly higher.
At level 4, you now lose out in sheer volume.

>>51534249
> Warlock
> ever winning at initiative
> against Bard who get Jack of all trade on initiative
Also counterspell work on Eldritch blast too.

>>51534294
Honestly, that line isn't worth bringing up.

It's never been said that Warlocks aren't adequate psuedo-martials, just that they aren't good casters.

Can we just agree that.... Warlock 2 / Lore Bard X is the best

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>>51534247
>In 1370 DR, there were approximately 20,000 drow in the city, with 1,000 of them considered nobles of the 60-70 noble houses
Assuming random google searches saying Rome had 30-40% slave population, and that 5% of the populace was patrician, just like this example above you can say there are about 3,500 slaves for 65 houses, which equates to about 54 slaves for a house of about 15 noble Drow.

>>51534335
What, for agonizing/repelling blast? I guess it would be better on demand damage, but not worth at all delaying progression.

If you want to nuke, sorclock is better anyway thanks to quickened spell.

>>51534303
Thank you.

Warlocks are usually built for EB damage with casting that they can use to adapt to situations outside that scope with the option for tome pact or a familiar.

And they should within reason get a few short rests (Situations permitting) to have the chance to cast some spells per day.

Its not about being equal its about having fun right?

>>51534216
>forge cleric
UA ain't official yet
>moon druid
I'll give you that one.
Onion druids are powerful.

>>51534365
Agonizing blast is nice. But other invocation like Beguiling Influence (Bard can't have enough proficiency in skill) or Misty's Vision is good too.

>>51534359
I messed up my math a little on two parts. Long story short it should be 10770 slaves to be 35% of the grand total population, which is 166~ per house.

>>51534404
They aren't terrible or anything, but nothing I'd delay spell progression for.
Specifically for the skills you have Jack of All Trades anyway.

>>51533969
Yep: the average game stops somewhere between level 8 thru 10, which is generally my experience as well.

I am going to play Varaint Human Divination Wizard and you can't stop me.

>>51534534
>Variant Human
Up all Night?

>>51533020
A question for all the Grognards and old fags here:

What was playing with "Alignment languages" like? Was it as retarded as it sounds when in use? Did you ever use it in game? Did your GM (or you) ban it from play?

Main point of asking this, is because I thought it sounds neat, and that maybe WoTC should incorporate it again.

>>51534574
Been playing since '92, glad as shit that the vast majority of mechanical significance for Alignment is gone. WotC should leave it dead and buried.

>>51534606
Tell me more Mr. Anon.

What was that era of table top like? I'm obviously only familiar with 5th

>>51534404
Warlock can be better that Bard if your DM is generous wrt to what Silent Image can accomplish. Some of the other spells can wreak havoc if always available (Speak with Animals, Speak with Dead, Disguise Self), but require a degree of DM generosity.

>>51534574
Alignment languages were a stupid idea, but it was to promote party cohesion more than anything.

Noble goal, fucktarded way of going about it.

>>51534672
Man, I don't know shit about "that era of tabletop gaming." I was in highschool back then, it was just my friends and I playing for fun. We'd change stuff when it wasn't fun, except when Dave was DMing, because Dave was a rulefag.

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I just purchased the AIME Loremasters guide PDF and would like to have it added to the mega trove. Anyone know how I can share this?

>>51534799
Try using MEGA.

>>51534814
I mean how do I add it to the main mega trove

>>51534799
Email it to [email protected] (either as an attachment or as a link to a Mega upload). I can handle the cleaning and such, if necessary.

>>51534832
done. enjoy

>>51533300
That's an awful lot of feats.

>>51533685
The enemies themselves probably wouldn't require too many changes, maybe different weapons given for them to use. Some of the classes or races stapled to the NPCs might need to be reworked or re-balanced, especially for the Pathfinder-specific ones.

Other than that it'd probably be changes to the DC numbers and what skills they are tied to.

I know someone months ago (at least 6 or 7 now) was talking about porting one of the starting (ie., low-level) 1st or 2nd AD&D edition module to 5th edition.

>>51534700
I had a player that thought silent image was a get out of jail free card and would try to use it for every single situation. Literally retarded uses of it.
He threw a hissy fit when his casting of it to "create foliage" didn't grant him complete cover (one way of course, why not) when creatures 10 feet away with blindsight weren't fooled.

>>51534909
I'm sorry you have retarded players, anon.

>>51534738
Stupid question, but did it work as an intended?

>>51533742
When people say Bard is best caster, they usually mean a Lore Bard specifically. But even then, a Valor Bard gets 28 spells known along with 4 cantrips by level 18 versus the 15 spells known plus 4 cantrips by a level 19 Warlock.

Now, Warlocks can fire off up to four 5th level spells by level 19, along with one spell of 6th through 9th level thanks to Mystic Arcanum, for a total of 8 spells of 5th through 9th level cast in the first fight of the day. And sure, the Bard only can cast up to 7 spells of 5th through 9th level at level 18. But you have to look at the spells both classes learn.

Warlock - by in large - has mostly blaster spells, maybe one or two debuff spells. After that, they are relying on Eldritch Blast + Warlock Invocations to deal damage and be useful in a fight. Meanwhile, the Bard still has 1st through 4th level spells to deal damage, buff, debuff, or even straight up Counterspell if they stole it from Wizard spell list (and let's be honest, almost every Bard steals that spell as soon as they can). And the breadth of spells a Bard can learn are literally ANY of them with Magical Secrets.

A high level Bard can buff a party member with Bardic Inspiration and then fire off something like Prismatic Spray or Disintegrate. And then the very next turn hurry over to an injured ally and cast Heal on them. And if a spellcaster tries to fire off a huge debuff spell they can Counterspell it.

Meanwhile, Warlock's sitting in back flinging Eldritch Blasts to deal damage, maybe firing off a Finger of Death. But even if they later get a short rest (which for many high end fights in D&D you simply won't see) there's not many spells that a Warlock wants. Sure, they get Counterspell, but most other spells at that tier are mediocre. And then they get into the next fight with 4 spells, while the Bard still has up to 15 spell slots left of 1st through 4th level left to them, if they blew all their 5th through 9th level spell in the first fight.

>>51535001
I literally never played with them, we always just let everyone communicate unless their was a valid RP reason we couldn't. Less crunch, more just playing.

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The following have been added to the Mega:

DDAL05-8 through -11
ELM1-1 (third party AL)
Mines of Madness (D&D Next adventure)
Adventures in Middle Earth Loremaster's Guide (and maps)

The PHB in the Mega has also been replaced with one that has much more accurate OCR.

A big thanks to all the anons who contributed these.

>>51534868
It's 2 feats and a fighting style. Paladin/fighter/ranger can do it by 4th level with variant human.

>>51533020
Anyone have any experience using Sanity as per the DMG? Another layer of fun or no?

>>51534223
>As many first level rituals as you can snag by level 3
>assuming that the GM will give you any rituals
What is it with people who argue in favor of the warlock always acting like the GM is obligated to give them scrolls or even gold? My 8th level fighter has like 50 gold coins to his name after having made 200 over the course of the campaign, and his only magic weapon is a dagger that counts as magical but has no bonuses.
Even wizards only ever see maybe two scrolls if they see any at all.

>>51535040
A little correction: the only Magical Secrets that don't count against the number of spells know is the Lore one, so a Lore Bard has 24 spells and a Valor Bard has 22.

I'm slowly amassing an army in my downtime in my game, unbeknownst to the rest of my party.

My DM is having trouble tracking it though. Does anyone have any advice for him?
Also, how would you handle arming, feeding, clothing, etc. an army as a DM?

As a player what are some uses for a large group (around 200) followers. I'm currently working about 80 of them in some mines that I bought. The other 120 are being relocated to a different continent and I don't know what subtle shit I could do to make them useful while I amass an actual sizeable force.

Anyone ever play with Rune Seeker prestige class? How was it?

Running a court intrigue, asian flavour, looking for interesting ressources, any favorites out there worth taking a look at?

>>51535434
Use your contacts as a PC of, seemingly, considerable wealth to get them mercenary contracts, take a percentage and finders fee.

Have them track down rumors for treasure, or go after specific relics you've heard about.

Hire them out as town guards and caravans.

Have them start building a fort, once completed it can be your own personal base of operations.

>>51535434
stop being a dick to your DM.

>>51535243
I'd have to see it in action but I really hate the cookie cutter minmaxed martial builds. As a player who has only ever played martials, it doesn't interest me nor does it seem fun. As a DM it makes me feel like you're an uncreative minmaxing faggot who can't do anything without the express approval of a Sudanese omnibot restoration forum.

>>51535513
Oh yeah I don't like it at all and I wasn't the original commenter, just wanted to clarify how early you can get it.

It's 100% a minmaxed abuse of UA content and I would never let a player run it in my games. As always folks, ask your DM and don't be a munchkin.

>>51535487
Most of my funds go to this endeavor. But they're pretty profitable so it kinda pays for itself.

I have several of the bigger players (future officers) working as slavers. They're very well equipped.

The mercenary thing is interesting to think about. I'll probably go with the base idea though, since the larger group is almost entirely craftsman of the untouchable caste.

>>51535511
My DM loves it and he messages me about it all the time. I'm the only player in the group that role plays, doesn't metagame, and doesn't spend our entire session texting or doing dailies on WoW. He's really excited someone wants to do something besides sprint from encounter to encounter and is aiding him in making a setting instead of just a backdrop for murderhoboing.

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>>51533020
So. Had a weird session tonight. First character death for one player.

>had two players, both level 10
>Rogue and Barbarian
>hired to retrieve an evil artifact from adventurers who “stole” it
>they’re basically stealing the Ring back from Frodo
>to do this, they need to get into a town
>to get into the town, they have to get past a guard post
>guards are a mercenary army hired to keep the peace, and are established as being the hardest motherfuckers around
>PCs (and their meager bandit force) are stopped at gate and asked simple questions
>who are you?
>what’s your business in town?
>anything to declare?
>the Rogue Halfling loses his Goddamn mind
>”We’re the real heroes!”
>”We have to get to the EVIL McGuffin!”
>”Those Adventurers who’ve served your town faithfully for years are secretly evil!”
>”I’ve been hired to steal the McGuffin away from them!”
>”I can’t tell you who hired me!”
>faced with this abundance of questionable/ridiculous logic, the mercenaries do the sensible thing and tell the party to hang out on their side of the bridge until a runner can confirm with the Mayor
>Rogue decides as soon as the runner leaves to attack the mercenaries
>said mercenaries include a tiefling EK and HalfOrc Barbarian flanked by half a dozen crossbowmen on low wooden walls, backed up by a Conjurationist Wizard hiding behind them
>Barbarian decides to follow the suicide order
>knocks Half Orc into river, leaps onto wall, starts fucking shit up
>Wizard uses one of many pre-set traps to cast Shape Stone onto the bridge, collapsing it into the river
>Halfling nearly drowns, starts coordinating their side’s archer fire
>total chaos
>Tiefling flamebolts the shit out of the archers
>all the crossbowmen are pounding potions and poisons
>Wizard wipes out PCs’ archers and nearly downs the Rogue with a fireball
1/2

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>>51535561
>Orc knocks down the walls trying to get barbarian
>Barbarian attacks Wizard, causing the Wizard to call a parley
>Rogue keeps shooting even after Barbarian stops hounding the Wizard
>Wiz teleports out (item, not spell slots), and the Barbarian cleans up the rest while the last two archers and the Rogue feebly try to cross the river and help
>Rogue gets an idea
>”make it look like a demon did it, and claim the Wizard did it!”
>even the NPCs are unconvinced
>Rogue manages to guilt them into helping him at least move the bodies and hacking a few trees to look legit, but completely forgets HE LET A WITNESS ESCAPE among other things
>keeps telling the others it’ll be alright
>”I can fix this. I got this”
>NPCs desert as soon as fucking possible
>Rogue hangs around hoping to bluff the next patrol to come along
>30+ heavy cavalry and horse archers come thundering out of the city towards them
>front ranks are full-on Paladins and other Heroic characters guarding the damn mcguffin until now
>Rogue leaps up onto a tree stump to Charisma at them
>barbarian drops his weapons and stands off to one side
>Rogue gives insane conspiracy speech trying to convince the charging horsemen that he was just minding his own business
>paladin crit-smites him off the stump
>entire cavalry force tramples him to death
>they encircle the Barbarian
>Wizard leading them ends session with:
>”So? Parley.”

Damn fun session. Player who lost his Rogue loved the battle despite biting the big one, and was excited to see how his next character would fit into the new adventure (because this one is completely off the fucking rails now). All in all, I’m happy with it. But that Rogue is gonna be a table Legend from now on.

Anyone got a disaster-session-turns-into-instant-classic story?

2/2

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>>51533020
>setting's overarching goal is a journey that will basically end in a yes or no question
>rewrite setting ending (or the events that would transpire normally at the end of the campaign unless the party does something drastically different) multiple times because it keeps coming out too similarly to Dark Souls 1
>dont want to seem like a rip off because everyone knows I'm a huge Souls 1 fag

End my life

>>51535575

Yeah it involved a broken-bad-math-barbarian leaping through a wall of fire to kill a Demon 5 CR higher than the party level. Coined the term for good, always gets a laugh.

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>too many partial character ideas
>most of them are too similar to warrant being written down as separate concepts
>DM can't actually start the campaign until all the players have characters ready
Quick, I need you to kill me

>>51533742
The draw of Warlocks for me is Misty Visions.

At will Silent Image literally never gets old.

>>51535781
Just roll for the characters.

>>51535292
Your DM is on the stingier end.

I've got nearly 200 gold, a handful of scrolls, a magic brooch and boots of spider climb and I'm level four.

I don't even have the best item in the party.

Someone give me a decent idea for a Dwarf Monk. I really want to do one but it ain't coming to me.

what paladin oath would fit a chaotic good character

>>51535899
Vengeance I guess.

>>51535903
yeah im kinda annoyed

there may be no alignment restrictions but oh boy do most of these oaths stipulate you be some goody two-shoes where you might as well be lg

>>51535899
Oath of the Ancients

>>51535922
>most

Not really. You can go LN or LE. You can be an outright cunt, just I find it odd being CG.

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>>51535852
Okay, yeah. Thanks bruh
I have a medical condition where I can't make the correct decision until I hear someone else say it first

>>51535899
Oath of Crown for the fun.

>>51535976
i was thinking about that but it doesn't seem very compatible with the alignment

>>51535899
Treachery. Be the dick-ass knight with a heart of gold

>>51535980
Nonsense. You just pledge your allegiance to a child ruler.
>"Freddy pinched me when I said my paladin could beat up his paladin."
>As it turns out sir, that same kingdom has been attempting to destabilize the border region between our two countries. It might be worthwhile to investigate.
>"Paladin-kun, give me a horsey ride!"
I must protect this smile

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>>51536066
>you become the father figure protecting a Kings smile

>>51536066
i came here expecting nothing and now i feel as though i'll be leaving here having been sold on oath of the crown

i was trying to think if any would fit my idea of having a mercenary that'd do most jobs but would turn down/break contract on any that he didn't have the stomach for

DMfags I want your opinion
I want to bring a LE Drow Warlock to the party, would you be willing to accommodate for the major sun-disability and heavy RP implications ?

>>51536149
sure

if any of them have a problem tell them to settle it in character

>>51536149
Talk to your DM and the other players. It might work for some groups, might not work for others, only way to find out is to ask.

This is the kind of thing that makes me have a 1-on-1 session 0 with my players beforehand.

Redpill me on Dragonlance

>>51536149
Not a DM but
>Is your character going to be a cunt
>Will your character disrupt play in any major way
If no to both, then sure.

>>51536149
>Drow

If the players don't try to get you killed in rp or leave you for death. I will be impressed.

>>51536175
>Redpill
>Dragonlance
>on
no to all of these things
if i knew of a way to be offended at the word 'me' i would be right now

>>51536149
Do long as you're not a total cunt to the party. You are working with the party, I don't run pvp games.

Also I like the imagery of Drow in a burka with cool jewelry and shit. Warlock of Fiend or Old One? Fey doesn't make much sense.

>>51536175
>Redpill me on dragonlance

This is the wrong board for you buddy.

>>51536175

IF you're DM'ing, kender don't exist. Use the ogres. A civilization of once noble, brilliant magical bastards who've degenerated into savage near-retards clinging to the hope of rising to their former glory by bathing in the blood of elves and transforming themselves into titans.

Use minotaurs. Rome, but with horns and fur, including a legacy of brilliant emperors. The elven kingdom of Silvanesti was invaded and shattered by them. Elf slave? Owned by a minotaur, probably.

Use the dark knights of Neraka. In a setting where evil was once famous for destroying itself due to infighting and stupidity, the knights banded together with goblin allies to become an orderly, disciplined fighting force devoted to defeating all other nations in the name of Takhisis (now Sargonnas, probably.)

Use draconians. Kidnapped dragon eggs, twisted by a dark ritual into manlike monsters with all the evil impulses a goddess could shove into a humanoid frame, but with just a hint of the nobility their metallic dragon ancestry promises them. They are forever out of reach of greatness and bitter as hell about that fact.

>>51536230
Been here for a while.

Never got into Dragonlance. Want to know a basic rundown.

Said Redpill to trigger faggots.

Typing on phone.

>>51536265
>phoneposter

That explains quite a bit.

>>51536295
I'm in bed faggot otherwise I'd be on my PC

>>51536302
Then why couldn't this wait til you get out of bed?

>>51536224
I honestly wanted to go Fey for flavor but Fiend makes more sense since Draegloth are a thing, I'm still trying to figure out a decent reason for a Drow to ever bother coming onto the surface for anything but Lolth's test.

>>51536149
>would you be willing to accommodate for the major sun-disability and heavy RP implications
I dunno. Get some sun glasses. And yeah, what other people said. Don't be a cunt.

What's the best way to incapacitate someone who has high Wisdom, as a Warlock?

>>51536626
Just shoot'em with your warlock magic. Can't wisdom yer way outta that.

>>51536626
Have your friends do it for you.

>>51536646
That doesn't help me GOO thrall the evil cleric.

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>DMing
>group is doing point buy like rational humans
>one guy doesn't show to session zero
>everyone else's character creation goes well
>session one
>final player shows up
>start doing session 02 to make his character
>summarize how character creation went for everyone else
>let them briefly explain their characters
>mention that they used point buy

>he pulls this out, slams it hard on the table, reveals his game science dice, and declares he's rolling for stats

What do you do?

>>51536697
"No."

>>51536626

If he doesn't have a high strength score, have your big dumb fighter grapple him.

>>51536697
3d6 straight (or 2d6+6 if you're generous), if either you or I don't like your stats, its point buy instead.

>>51536697
Let him. just tell him he has to create his character on his own.

>>51536697

"did you really spend 125 dollars on those"

>>51536697
No

>>51536754
Especially if the dice are the same, those are chessex red/gold I literally have a set that I got for 10$.

>>51536697
"Nice vault, hope you've got the right oils to care for it properly."

I then dope-smack him for wasting money on Game Science dice.

>>51535575
>>51535561
>Rogue player is either autistic in real life or RPing an autistic character
>DM decides to allow the NPCs to abide by his autism logic and not just immediately arrest him for slander or insanity
>PCs then decide to suicide charge a non-hostile but heavily fortified defensive position
>GM pulls punches to allow them to win instead of rightfully wiping them from the Earth or capturing them
>Rogue turns up the autism to 11
>DM finally, much overdue, pulps him

Instant

Classic

>>51536697
I said point buy, Ill run a game you can roll on another time. For now, use your number spread scrub.

I want to summon creatures.

whats the best class and archetype to accomplish this?

Also what are some of the best things to summon?

Most everything I found online was written before Volo's so I want to know if there is anything from that that is good

>>51536322
I'm trying to sleep but I also have this nagging desire to learn more about Dragonlance

>>51535597
What's the question

>>51535860
Your DM is on the generous end

Gold is plentiful after a few levels but magic items remain scarce, per DMG guidelines on handing them out

>>51535922
Most Paladin oaths are designed to fit 3 of the 9 alignments, but can fit any if you try

>>51536149
I dislike RPing race relations so that would depend on whether the player wanted that as part of the package, but I wouldn't let in a LE character

>>51536391
Banishment or disgrace? Former lowborn made a pact with a Fiend/discovered the power of an old one and fled?

>>51536697
What sort of autism leads to both a desire to own this and a job that can afford it?

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>>51536697
Far as I see, you have three options
>No, now pb your stats
>Sure, but it's 3d6 straight down
>Get out.

Any other answer is factually incorrect.

>>51536874
Summoning is pretty crap in 5e, since the majority of summoning spells do not allow the player to choose the specific summoned creature.

Your best bet is either Druid, or Conjuration Wizard if your DM allows the Black Magic UA.

>>51536876
Read the books

Start with Dragons of Autumn Twilight

>>51536925
>$120
>expensive

>>51536963
I spend less per month on food

>>51536963
>>51536969
You need food to live, though.

$120 is a lot of money for something thoroughly useless.

>>51536976
I wrote that with the intention that I can't even afford $120/mo on food, let alone on such a luxury item

>>51536874
>>51536953
Note that this is intentional, because summoning is annoying. It fucks with the action economy, makes shit take longer, is more to keep track of, etc. That's why the spells that do exist are DM's choice.

Druid is 5e's summoning class. It fixes all the annoying problems summoning causes by hiding your PC in a pocket dimension while your "summoned" creature fights.

>>51533807
Sorclock/skeleton hordes.

Technically, if you want to be burst DPR king, Sorclock works better with 2 level dip in fighter.

>>51536976
>$120
>Object of Artistic Merit
>a lot of money
Do you work part time for minimum wage?

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How do I have fun as a pure martial? I got kinda rused into playing one (went for one for the sake of party balance, then everyone rerolls into halfcasters), so I want to know if there is anything more to it than maneuvers. Maybe a DMG rule I can beg my DM to use?

>>51536697
Tell him he can't play if he's not gonna listen to the DM on something as simple as this, then ask why he bought a coffin for this dice

>>51537012
>Object of Artistic Merit

It's a small, unadorned wooden box, Jim.

>>51537027
>Not appreciating fine woods
>Not appreciating simplicity in art

>>51533969
seconding what the other annon says, my experience is 3-8 is where most play is at.

>>51537016
Seconding this question, playing as a martial just doesn't lend itself to creative gameplay, at least when I play it. I don't like having one optimal option that I use every turn in combat, with nothing else to gain any advantage unless the DM feels generous.

The one time I enjoyed a martial, I was playing a grippli (homebrew) ranger with a bunch of nets and traps, with only poison-coated blowdarts to do damage with. So I basically used the equipment section as a martial spellbook of sorts.

>>51537027
It's a neat little hobby related nick-nack made from an exotic wood. It's no Van Gogh, but it's primary purpose is to be aesthetically pleasing. That's art, buddy.

>>51537016
As a DM, I've personally ported in the Lightsaber stances from KOTOR 2 as martial stances for my martial players, but they have to earn the stances by talking to masters and such and convincing them to teach them.

But once you know it, it gives them something to do in battle, to decide which stance to use vs the group of enemies, whether it's worth losing AC for that extra damage, etc.

>>51536955
Rather not, just want a rundown. Little more than Wikipedia, less than a book

>>51537052
>>51537016
1. Change systems

2. Get your DM to include more decisions in combat

This can be mechanical, like object interactions, or RP, like hostage situations or choosing between defending yourself from underlings or pursuing the fleeing villain.

3. RP yourself more in combat

IE, ignoring the options and game rules, what would you do in this situation? Does your character have a hateboner for Gnomes so runs past the human frontliners? Are they religious, and so deeply fear / respect divine classes? Do they take an extra turn to finish a downed enemy? Note that this stuff entails playing sub-optimally, and so requires party buy in.

>>51536391

>"Man, FUCK the underdark"

>>51536391
>>51537191
The character's father left for the surface long ago, describing it as a place of freedom and adventure. But, the character, then a child, was too frightened of the surface to join him.

Now an adult, the character is chafing under the strictness of Drow society, and sets out to the surface world, to follow his father's footsteps.

>>51537016
Get lots of gadgets, become batman

rope hooks, vials of acid, etc

basically you want to become a caster that uses gold and carrying capacity instead of spell slots

Alright, so how many tribal goons is too many in the same scene at the same time? Where does fifth break down on monster numbers?

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>>51536391
>>51537253
>was too frightened of the surface to join him.
Ask Ghaunadaur to lend you some bravery then, he is specifically listed as one of the possible patrons for GOO and is the second most iconic drow deity.

>>51536697
>Deciding on their character BEFORE rolling dice
This is how you get ultra-shit monks.

Demand they roll 3d6 in order and no matter what they get to keep what they get. Anyone else can choose to do the same if they want, but know that it could easily fuck them over.

>>51537253
Will his life change the day an adventurer from the surface smashes into the Underdark while battling a dragon?

Will he inspire a young gnomish slave, broken and hopeless, with no confidence left in himself, to follow his dreams and never give up?

>>51537347
>Gnomish
>not Human

Only a Human could channel that kind of fighting spirit, Anon

>>51537360
I bet even a miniature giant space hamster could, if he tried hard enough.

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>>51537191
>>51537253
>>51537306
Taking these advices into account thanks

>>51536745
I really really don't like this. Why wouldn't anyone roll with a setup like this? You have a chance to go big with the dice, and if it sucks you just fall back to point buy. That's not a good thing.

>>51533742
Bards are FULL casters.
And they get to be rogues as well.

>>51534266
Tell me more about the meteor horses.

>>51537524
>if either you or I don't like your stats

What's a good method to adjudicate Rape? I'm tempted to treat copulation like a condition that can be imposed after pinning the target. What's the best way to fairly run rape scenarios?

>>51534266
Who can summon a horse that shoots meteors?
What horse shoots meteors?

>>51537628
don't

>>51537628
Probably pinning with strength checks to throw them off, strength check at the end of each round, and then will checks to resist traumatization.

>>51537644
Paraphrasing because I can't be arsed to doublecheck for the correct terms:
- There's a personal range spell that has the effect "you get X meteors you can throw at enemies"
- Summon mount lets you double the effect of all spells that are cast on you to also apply to your mount.
- bard can access both of these spells
>you now have a mount that can throw meteors alongside you.

>>51537585
There's no way you'd go below average because if it sucks you can just fall back to PB.
Now if you get above average, but below absurd numbers like 18-18-16-15-13-13 the DM probably won't intervene and you're better than the rest who did PB.
Imagine it like rolling a d20 with those conditions
>if you roll below 10, then you don't like it and treat it like a 10
>if you roll above 15, then the DM don't like it and treat it like a 10
So you get guaranteed average with a chance for somewhat above average, but not absurd numbers. Why wouldn't you roll?

>>51537628
Read FATAL's "it was an accident" rape rules
Don't forget to roll for anal circumference.

>>51537699
Bardic Horsecasting doesn't work, we finished that discussion a LONG time ago.

>>51537702
>18-18-16, min 13
>below absurd

>>51537746
He was giving them as an example of absurd numbers.

>>51537728
This is a different one. The original one was using cone of cold, trying to say that "cone effects that originate from you have 'you' as a target", this is using a buff spell where you actually are targeted.

I think.

It's not RAI, and stupid anyway so w/e.

>>51537746
nigga he missed commas, context

>>51537813
Personally I'd go with
>no your horse doesn't know how to utilize the Minute Meteors.
Keep pushing and it becomes
>no, your horse can't concentrate on spells, its a horse

>>51537702
>possibly end up with 6 10s
>be fucking terrible

>>51537848
What if the party druid shifts into a horse and you use it?

>>51537881
Then it wouldn't be a horse summoned by find steed would it?

>>51537881

There's a fundamental difference between a spell's point of origin and a spell's target. Melf's Minute Meteors has a point of origin which is self, but self is not the target. The target is the point you can see in range.

>>51537766
>>51537828
Okay sure, I can see it now.
But, its not hard to know where whatever point-buy hits average and adjudicate accordingly. If your desired point-buy has an average 4 modifier, you can nix any stat spread that also doesn't have a 4mod average. That would nix most rolls, but the idea was to push towards point-buy like the rest of the party.

Hey /tg/. I'm going to be playing a small sized martial in an upcoming game and I'm looking into grappling shenanigans. I know almost nothing about 5e, so can I get some advice here?

>>51537848
>>51537900

It's not even a horse.

>Find Steed


You summon a spirit that assumes the form of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed, creating a long-lasting bond with it. Appearing in an unoccupied space within range, the steed takes on a form that you choose, such as a Warhorse, a pony, a camel, an elk, or a Mastiff. (Your DM might allow other animals to be summoned as steeds.) The steed has the statistics of the chosen form, though it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of its normal type. Additionally, if your steed has an Intelligence of 5 or less, its Intelligence becomes 6, and it gains the ability to understand one Language of your choice that you speak.

>While your steed is within 1 mile of you, you can communicate with it telepathically.

So, yeah, I'd allow it as a DM. It's a fucking celestial/fiend/fey spirit that can communicate with you telepathically. I think it can manage to aim some hot rocks from a Minute Meteors.

>>51537867
Either you don't understand analogies or are simply pretending to be retarded. Either way, no more (You)s

>>51537938
Way to miss my point. The question was what if the mount was a shapeshifted druid, I pointed out that then it wouldn't be a mount from Find Steed so casting a single target spell would';t also hit it.

>>51537939
You can get good stats that means you don't take point buy but still end up with all 10s because after you decide not to switch out your stats for point buy your DM can then say 'okay now all your good stats are 10' and fuck you over.
Technically speaking.

>>51537934
Grapple has been trimmed down to point a grappling build is really feasible. All you would do is stop the targets movement.

Are Booming Blade/Greenflame Blade memes or actually strong enough to basis your build around?

>>51538018
I want to avoid rogues, but other than that, are there any tricky martials now?

>>51538019
Well if you are a class that only has one attack per action then both cantrips are strictly better than just attacking.

>>51537016
git gud
Watch videos of people swordfighting, watch vids of reconstructors and larpers, try to replicate cool stuff with words

>>51538019
Booming is good enough to build around because of the movement punishment, GFB is mostly meme because of the Dragon/Undying Light SorcLock build, but still pretty potent.

>>51538065
But uh... if they don't move then nothing happens right? That seems pretty easy to shut down.

>>51538018
>>51538035

isn't* really feasible, I meant.

>>51537934
>small
You won't be able to grapple large creatures properly and your DM may grant enemies advantage on counter-grapple checks if they feel like it and such.

However, if you're playing a halfling barbarogue then I suppose that's alright. Just use a shield and rapier for when you expect to be facing larger creatures.

Oh, right, I should have said this first -
There are two main grapple builds, both of which can either focus on dexterity or strength.
Barbarogue (I'd honestly say dex is better for this) and Fighterogue (I'd probably recommend strength for this one).

Barbarogue is barbarian5/rogueX, always. Fighter is either Fighter5/RogueX, Fighter7/RogueX, Fighter11/RogueX or if you're really fucking drunk Fighter7/Warlock2/RogueX. But then the warlock one isn't a grappler.

Expertise in athletics.

Or you could just be something half-arsed like a GWM barbarian and just grapple sometimes.

>>51538088
Forcing something to willingly move isn't terribly difficult to do

>>51538088
Congratulations, you have an enemy stupid enough to stand still in the middle of a battlefield and get wailed on by your entire party.

>>51538088
And you don't see how locking down a targets movement is useful?

>>51538109
>>51538114
Why wouldn't he just attack whoever cast Booming Blade instead? Moving would just provoke an AoO anyways, on top of getting boomed.

Just attacking back seems smarter.

>>51538114
The hp bloat suggests most are meant to do exactly that. Many couldn't even disengage without wasting actions anyway. The best course of action for the majority of monsters is to just murder the PC right in front of them

>>51538136
What happens if the target moves out of or is struck at reach?
Polearm master race

>>51538055
It's not going to make any mechanical difference. You can jack off to halfswording all you want but at the end of the day its still "i roll 2 attack".
>inb4 uhhhhhhhhh you're here to Ur-Pee you dumb crunchfag

>>51538154
This.

Monsters aren't really statted out to be played intelligently like creatures afraid of dying. They're basically mobs that the DM is sending into the meat grinder known as The Party to try and exhaust them before their next encounter. They're pretty much resources, which is something I find super boring about the monsters in 5E.

>>51538019
Depends on your character and depends on their level.

Sorcpaladin can use GFB/BB as bonus actions.
EK can still do decent damage using a rapier with it, especially at levels 1-4, 7-10 and 17-19.

BB/GFB also improves per overall levels instead of class levels, so you can multiclass around a lot with it.

Clerics are almost always better off with it if they intend to do melee damage.

Rogues with advantage do very well with it.

Warlocks can use it alongside shillelagh as a back-up 'enemy is in my face but I don't want to disengage or eldritch blast repel them because I'll probably miss if I have disadvantage' attack but it's still kinda meh.

Generally it's not usually very good for any class that gets extra attack, though EK gets a bonus attack after casting a cantrip and like said above sorcerer can cast GFB/BB as bonus acitons.


GFB is always gauranteed to have its secondary effect if there is another target within 5ft and does similar damage to booming blade. Booming blade isn't gauranteed the damage but is better when GFB wouldn't proc.

>>51538195
Give all monsters free rogue levels

>>51538195
That's more the DM's fault than anything. There's nothing saying 'anything with a half-decent intelligence can't actually play somewhat intelligently' and I'm pretty sure there are plenty of monsters with decent intelligence. It's the animals with poor intelligence, and even animals have a sense of self-preservation and aren't totally dumb and know when to avoid a fight.

>>51538219
He's not saying that, he's saying that's not what they're statted for.

5E is about action economy, and any creature fighting the PCs is going to get fucking raped for wasting his actions trying to disengage or flee. Digging in and trying to slug it out and hopefully dropping a player is literally the best option they have most of the time.

>>51538219
>>51538154
Oh, missed the original point.

To the original point -

The best thing for a monster to do is often to run when low on HP.
For the monster, it's much better off living and licking its wounds than trying to bruatalize the players like killing the players is everything in the world to them.

>>51538219
After binging on wildlife documentaries, I can confirm DMs almost invariably control creatures poorly.

>>51538237
>>51538240
>have low HP
>be forced to use your action to Disengage
>move away from the enemy party
>enemy party now has 4-5 actions to dogpile and fuck you or hit you with ranged attacks

>>51538219
It's not intelligent for them to jump around the battlefield though. They want to focus one one guy and beat him to death as quickly as possible. If they can do burst attacks they want enmies to swarm them so they can maximize their damage output.

And many of these creatures don't have a sense of self preservation. It's stated in fluff they're supernaturally aggressive, don't fear death, can't feel pain or some bullshit like that. They're monsters by every understanding

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>>51537016

>>51538237
The game doesn't support running away. Unless you're specialized in it like a rogue you will be wasting actions to get away while your opponent can just move and use their action to keep walloping you. If you've got more movement they can still just dash and leave you where you were to start with. Running is almost always useless

>>51538237
Or surrender and ask for mercy.
If they are fighting on their own ground, they might have some panic button.
Or have buddies that can cover their escape.

>>51538055
Nobody has ever found mechanically unsupported combat fluff interesting.

>>51538219
He's right, it's just the way monsters are statted.

Players are glass cannons with lots of abilities, but limited resources.

Monsters are tanks with limited abilities, meant to whittle the players down over 4-6 engagements.

Making monsters PC equivalents, in addition to more bookkeeping, would also make TPKs very common and throw the adventuring day that everything is balanced around out of whack.

5e isn't designed for the kind of fight you're talking about.

>>51538240
DMs don't have the toolkit to play beasts properly.

Firstly, because players don't behave like rational creatures due to the abstraction of damage, and secondly because fleeing / chase mechanics are basically non-existent (including the attempt they made in the DMG).

>>51533280
I ran Kingmaker in 5e by multiplying all the numbers by appropriate ratios to get them closer to 5e numbers. (I can't find the guide I used back then, It was about two years ago now.) It worked surprisingly smoothly. Anything like spells or abilities that don't quite match up were handwaved away as "DM Magic, I ain't gotta explain shit." I think we all had fun.

>>51538258
Disengage is just generally a bad choice.

Instead, they can use the dodge action, which will also apply to the reaction attack they take for moving outside of melee range.

Also, if you're the only monster left, you're probably kind of fucked anyway, but you might as well try running and hope the party doesn't give a fuck about you getting away.

Not to mention not everyone in the party has ranged attacks. At most people in the party can dash up to you so they make another reaction attack, and then sooner or later the monster might find something they can hide behind or try to gain some ground over the dashing people from.

>>51538261
Well, I'll admit, there is bullshit like planar creatures that only get sent back to their own plane on death, and some are just 'MURDER KILL FUCK MURDER' creatures. But it's the DM's fault for putting those creatures in there in the first place.
I'd put in goblins that are definitely fucking evil and the players won't like them, but actually have some value outside of being meatbags. They might run, they're open to negotiations, aren't completely untrustworthy and may try to avoid fighting a tough party.

>>51538299
A lot of monsters tend to have better speed than the players. If most of the party are rangers and only one or two are melee, the monster can prone the melee guys and then run. The players attack with disadvantage and have to spend half their movement to stand.
Or the monsters might have tricks, flight, etc.

>>51538264
>everything that triggers me is bait

>>51538332
Can confirm; statted out a few NPCs the same way you'd make a PC and didn't even pick "optimal" choices and it was a fucking bloodbath.

>>51537016
You can try using the marking rule, but it's not exactly balanced this edition. Climbing monsters is another optional rule you could try. You could also grapple but it's effectively worthless. I still do it anyway cause it's more fun than constantly just rolling to hit

>>51538305
Or this. This is also correct.

>>51537016
There are only two half-casters. That must be an inbalanced party. The third-casters are still martials at heart.

>>51538350
>Grapple
>Worthless
Your DM is shit for not giving you reasons to grapple (There are many reasons, such as to stop a creature from using 'dodge' or coming up with your own actions to hold the wizard's arms still or to stop an enemy getting away or getting to your allies).
Then, you're also shit for not combining things such as prone and grapple to put an enemy at a big disadvantage.

>>51538334
>But it's the DM's fault for using the monsters that populate 50% of the book.
A game of entirely humanoids and animals isn't very fantastical

>>51538350
>marking rule
Where can I find it??
>>51538377
>or coming up with your own actions to hold the wizard's arms still
That's a significant buff to the grapple that's clearly not RAI, but I'll try to push that, thanks.
>>51538356
>third-casters
Fair enough, I guess I should've worded that better.
They still have heaps more of options and utility than a pure martial though.

>>51538379
It's not very hard to say 'But my elves are different'.

'Well, my devils don't return to hell when they die.'
'Well, my gnolls are, while fucking awful people, still don't qualify for the darwin award'.
'Well, my owlbears don't try to attack 5 incredibly loud guys in plate armour. They'd rather attack their targets while isolated.'

>>51538377
Usually the issue is there's also a monk and he simply stuns the target, making my grappling pointless. A couple times we fought casters and they simply misty stepped to freedom. Other times casters just faerie fired a whole group or hold-personed the big target for a better benefit. The rogues never care anyway since they're constantly popping in and out of stealth, and the ranged characters are actively hindered by proning. Really I end up doing more harm than good most of the time.

>>51538437
Gay. If I wanted to play Different D&D, I would.

>>51538437
Then why are you playing D&D?

>>51538377
A martial is almost always better off dealing damage than grappling to give advantage; casters exist to give advantage, martials are simply supposed to kill things

>>51538210
There are no particular ways other than "eyeballing it" to add class levels to monsters, dude.

>>51538488
>>51538471
Literally not a single 5e game out of maybe five or six has played to a standard D&D setting. Okay, except one that I'm not sure on which might be or might not be.

>why are you playing D&D
How is playing a non-standard setting not playing D&D properly? Is it so bad if you want D&D-like mechanics but don't like certain aspects so you change the setting slightly?

>>51538558
You're not talking about the setting though, you're talking about the mechanics.

Devils not returning to hell when they die is a mechanical change. Making gnolls more intelligent is a mechanical change.

>>51538542
If the monster is fleeing to activate a trap or shut a door or escape the party with valuable information or anything like that and they still have most of their health, 'just attacking' is a stupid move and you should feel stupid for considering it.
If the DM doesn't have situations like this and just has 'monsters see you. walk towards you. start hitting you' then it's a shit DM.

Also, this is more than just advantage - the monsters have disadvantage, you have advatage and you can drag them around as you please, throw them off a ledge, maybe ask to disarm them or something and take them prisoner.
If it's a particularly strong monster, you can in two attacks completely shut the monster down without using any of your resources, just by rolling good on athletics (And if you have athletics expertise and good strength and advantage from rage, that's made easier). Sure, the wizard could cast grease and try to prone all the targets, but they'll just stand again. A warlock could cast the black void hadar one and delay a monster for a turn.
You, on the other hand, have just put a monster in a position where it has to take a full action to even TRY to get free, if it does it can't move very far, will probably fail, it can't escape you and even if it chooses to then attack its attacks are hardly likely to hit. It might be able to try to invoke save throws, but if your DM is reasonable and you have your foot over their head they can't exactly spit acid at you.

>>51536149
Yes on the sun.
As to RP, I view the grudge the drow have with surfacers as wholly one way -- nobody really knows or cares enough about dark elves to be pissy about them other than a few adventurers.

Can someone with Wis 13 and Int lower than 13 choose Ritual Caster (Wizard)?

>>51538558
>Literally not a single 5e game out of maybe five or six has played to a standard D&D setting.
You're right, they're usually even more ridiculous with far more fantastical and unkillable enemies
Two weeks ago I fought an interdimensional time lord during a 2 second portal crossing. One week ago I fought ancient immortal precursor beings that uploaded viruses into the brains of it's minions to overwrite their natural behaviors.

Seeing something with self preservation in a D&D game is like a prostitute trying to find a unicorn

>>51538599
Most monsters have Strength as their main stat though and can actually resist being grappled pretty good.

Grappling is literally just being an even shittier monk. Instead of just using Stunning Strike, you're rolling around playing grab-ass and wasting your actions to MAYBE help the party.

>>51538576
Mechanically it's not much different. The fight is still pretty much the same.
There's a tiny, tiny chance you might go to hell later and see that same Imp? So what?

It's a much bigger deal on the social side where they have a different mindset given that they'll completely fail if they die, not just 'fail, for now'.

>>51538617
That's abanadoning all reason at that point. I mean, I've had questionable DMs but most keep it vaguely like D&D.

As long as the core concepts are similar - devils are perhaps evil beings from hell - then it's still D&Dish enough without getting ridiculous. If a DM wants to say 'okay, this demigod isn't actually invincible even though it's said you can only get rid of them with a wish' then that's fine.

What exactly am I supposed to do about monsters with self preservation?

It looks like they really really REALLY stress out players.

>>51538645
Kill them harder.

>>51538599
>the monster is fleeing to activate a trap or shut a door or escape the party with valuable information or anything like that and they still have most of their health, 'just attacking' is a stupid move and you should feel stupid for considering it.
The caster holds person and the martials crit it to unconsciousness

>>51538642
It sounds like you want something more fluffy and less crunchy. Adapting D&D for that is just kind of dumb when there are other systems out there that focus much better on the fluff.

People play D&D because

A) They don't know any better
B) They know exactly what it is and that's what they want

You're suggesting presenting to them something that is not D&D in the guise of D&D. It's just kind of a dick move over-all.

>>51538632
You can avoid grapples with either strength or dexterity anyway.
But the deal is it's much easier to get good skill checks than attack rolls.

For a barbarogue, it's a possible +7 with advantage to grapples while raging at total level 2. That's hardly anything to laugh at. They only get two grapples or a grapple and shove at level 6 though for extra attack.

For a shieldmaster, they can prone as a bonus action. They can then use one of their attacks to grapple to ensure that enemy isn't getting up. Sure, you maybe lost a bit of damage, but you've prevented more.

Stunning strike is a limited resource and is easier to resist and only lasts one turn at most, and monk itself isn't awfully great besides their stunning ability.

Though honsetly half of it is still 'Your DM is fucking shit' if you can't get any good uses for grapples.

>>51538680
>your DM is shit for not letting you roll around like some MMA homo with monsters instead of just killing them

Yeah whatever. Grappling is fucking retarded. I'm glad most people in my party are casters and totally nullify any possible need for grappling.

>>51538680
>Though honsetly half of it is still 'Your DM is fucking shit' if you can't get any good uses for grapples.

>its the fault of the DM if he can't redeem a mechanic that is shitty and annoying in essentially every RPG around

>>51535513
>>51533300

It's really more impressive on paper. In practice it's an annoying drag on the whole party because you have to let the enemies come to you instead of coming to them.

>>51538680
>Stunning strike is a limited resource and is easier to resist and only lasts one turn at most, and monk itself isn't awfully great besides their stunning ability.
barbarogues and shieldmasters aren't that good outside of their gimmicks either. Optimizing a character to grapple weakens them overall, to the point they're comparable to monks. That's pretty bad

>>51538645
Why is that a problem? Maybe the players should be stressed out if they can't handle enemies who understand basic tactics and value their own lives.

>>51538696
But, don't you remember although those luchadors in Lord of the Rings?

Surely you haven't forgotten that time Aragorn wrestled the Ring Wraith to the ground so Legolas could stab it?

>>51538666
I don't see why people would be angry that monsters aren't exactly like they are in the monster manual.

What's the point of having things like nature checks and all of that if all monsters are just monster manual monsters that everybody already knows the stats of?

The clear intention of D&D is that you make up your own monsters sometimes or adapt existing monsters to suit the campaign. If a player gets butthurt that they can't perfectly metagame all the monsters then they can fuck right off.

And if they don't know any better, then it won't matter whether the Imp is green or orange. Because they don't know what they expect it to look like.

>>51538661
What if hold person fails?
What if the creature is resistant/immune to that course of action?
What if the caster doesn't want to spare more spell slots?
What if the caster is busy concentrating on something else?
What if the caster isn't even in range in the first place?
What if the caster doesn't do what you want them to?
What if the caster doesn't have a suitable spell?
What if the caster is unable to take an action for whatever reason (Say, has to take an action to escape a potentially dangerous grapple)?

Sure, there are other effects that are better than grapples, but only martials can attempt it multiple times with better chances at-will.

>>51538696
Whatever you say. Sounds like it'd be easier for you lot to play casters.

>>51538707
It's their fault for not making combat interesting.

>>51538735
What if the creature is flying or a fucking ooze?

>hurr hurr I grapple the dragon

Grappling ceases to be relevant past like, fucking level 4.

>>51538735
>It's their fault for not making combat interesting.
>interesting means mandatory playing grab ass

>>51538721
They're tougher than monks. Barbarians get resistance to damage while raging and will likely have a bit more health, and if they've gone dex instead of strength for worse grapples (But still good) and better tankiness they'll have better AC than the monk, probably. Considering both barbarian and fighter can have a shield. The main issue is trying to deal damage while grappling however, since grappling takes a hand.. Normally. Though even Crawford in sage advice seems to suggest he'd let people 'stand on a prone target' as part of a grapple and thus still be able to attack.

Then, they'll at least have more proficiency than a monk with skills. Could probably take arcane trickster for some utility spells, a familiar...

Honestly it's not much better than a monk, but it's still slightly better rounded than a monk. Not saying stunning fist is worse than grapples, though - it's clearly better.

>>51538757
If you prone a flying target, they fall.
You jump into the air (might need some assistance on that) and knock them prone, then grapple them and drive them into the fucking ground. You grapple them before they start flying. That sort of thing. A battlemaster can even prone them at range then grapple them later.
If it's an ooze? You don't grapple them, duh. Not everything is something you need to grapple.

>>51538759
It's not mandatory. You have options - you can ask the caster, ask the monk, ask the grappler.. Grappling is merely another approach.

Grappling is shit. I blame you memeloving fucks for people trying retarded shit in my games like trying to grapple a dragon or a golem.

20 strength is not enough.

>>51538735
>What if hold person fails?
What if your grapple check fails?
>What if the creature is resistant/immune to that course of action?
It's probably immune to grappling then too
>What if the caster doesn't want to spare more spell slots?
Then either they're an asshole or it's not actually important and you're wasting time grappling
>What if the caster is busy concentrating on something else?
Then either they're an asshole or it's not actually important and you're wasting time grappling
>What if the caster isn't even in range in the first place?
If the caster can't get within 60 feet, why is it easier for you to get within 5?
>What if the caster doesn't do what you want them to?
Then either they're an asshole or it's not actually important and you're wasting time grappling
>What if the caster doesn't have a suitable spell?
What if you don't have the suitable skill?
>What if the caster is unable to take an action for whatever reason (Say, has to take an action to escape a potentially dangerous grapple)?
What if you're unable to take an action for whatever reason (Say, has to take an action to escape a potentially dangerous grapple)?

>>51538807
>you have options

Except if your build a character for grappling, you're going to try to grapple at every opportunity, even when it's dumb. You've built a one-trick pony around a very situational trick.

>>51534335
Nope
Fighter 2/ warlock 2/ Sorc X
Turn 1
haste on yourself/twin it to buff yourself. Quicken an eb.
Turn 2 action eb. Quickened eb. Haste action eb. Action surge eb.

Make sure to take eb and knock em 80+ feet away

>>51538807
>They're tougher than monks. Barbarians get resistance to damage while raging and will likely have a bit more health, and if they've gone dex instead of strength for worse grapples (But still good) and better tankiness they'll have better AC than the monk, probably.
By doing this they have managed to achieve even less damage output than a monk. They are literally only good for being beat on. I decently built monk is of more value to a team than this freakish grappling dex barb. Actually, if they're dex how good are they even at grappling?

>>51538807
Stop using "prone" as a verb; you sound almost as stupid as people who use "stealth" as a verb.

You're not even correct. Almost all flying creatures can hover, which means they don't fall when shoved. And you're still ignoring the fact that you're wasting all these attacks (one to grab and one to shove) that you could have used just killing the damn thing. Most combats don't last very long, unless of course you waste time doing things that don't kill the enemy.

>>51538878
You can't cast a spell with your extra Haste action. You are not smart and should not be listened to.

>>51538807
A grappler does not have option,. They have sacrificed to make grappling reliable, and in all else they are subpar. If a grappler has nothing to grapple they're worthless

>>51538833
>What if your grapple check fails
You grapple again, you have more than one grapple.
You grapple as a reaction if they try to move outside of 5ft.
You have a better chance of grappling than the monster has of failing a save, probably. If you have expertise and especially if you have rage.
>immune to grapples too
Why would it be? A mummy can't be paralyzed, but can be grappled. A bone naga can't be paralyzed, but can be grappled. A revenan-
I could keep listing them but I haven't found any that can't be paralyzed but also can't be grappled yet.
>or it's not actually important and wasting time
It could be important enough to use a grapple on but not important enough ot use a spell slot on.
>concentrating on something else
See above.
>why is it easier for you to get within 5?
Because the caster is probably squishier than you and doesn't want to be in close combat, else they get pulverized.
>doesn't do what you want them to
Yeah, I'll admit, they're probably an asshole, though in non-metagaming games where people take roleplaying over sense it could always happen.
>What if you don't have the suitable skill?
It's possible someone might have a limited number of spells they can take and thus don't take a spell that does something similar to grappling because they know they can rely on you for it, because you know you do have the skill. Otherwise the caster takes it.
>What if you can't take an action?
Then the caster does it, or nobody does. You don't need 100% relevance.

>>51538962
>You grapple as a reaction if they try to move outside of 5ft.
You cannot do this. You can only grapple as part of an attack action. Grappling would actually be good if it could be done as a reaction, so obviously WotC couldn't allow that

>>51535871
Cmon anon
Drunken fist

>>51538864
A barbarian-rogue's main gimmick is just being fucking tanky.
Grappling is secondary, but something they can do well.

>>51538901
I'm using it in the context of 'to inflict the prone condition' rather than 'to knock a creature prone'. Maybe it's non-standard, but it's often accepted terminology when it comes to games, such as 'To EMP the robot'.

>almost all enemies have hover
How about you actually read the goddamn monster manual? I just used ctrl-f on 'fly' and there are creatures with the fly spell and creatures with innate flying without hover that make up maybe at least 60% of the entries there. It's probably more like 70% or 80% though.

And it's entirely possible that two attacks wouldn't kill something. If it took, say, eight attacks to kill it and the monster would have three attack during that time, it would be better if you grappled it and proned it. From then on, the eight following attacks will have advantage and it will have three attacks with disadvantage.

Obviously if it's a runt like a goblin you don't bother grappling it, or you don't prepare to grapple/prone things if you're in a mostly ranged party.

>>51538885
They need at least 13 strength, probably have 14 strength.
They'll have expertise and will still have advantage.

So, at level 5, it'll be +8 to grapple, advantage and two possible grapple/shoves, or a grapple+attack (only need one attack to hit for sneak attack).

The damage isn't so bad. I should excel graph it later.

The important thing is that grappling is stupid regardless of mechanics

Go play Pathfinder if you think dropping your weapons and wrestling someone has a place as a common battle tactic in medieval fantasy

>>51538984
I mostly said that because I remembered it being done in the past.

You can prepare to grapple a creature if it runs, which can be useful for rather specific situations. Did it for a guard as DM once when a player was caught stealing and the guard was by the doorway.

Still, there are times I think a DM should probably allow you to do it.

A good DM will allow you to do things like disarming or restraining certain parts of an enemy using grapple checks, and if your DM gives you no freedom then you might as well do what everyon else is yelling about and be a wizard and just be powerful because you're a fuckin' wizard.

>>51538962
>I could keep listing them but I haven't found any that can't be paralyzed but also can't be grappled yet.
Elementals, ghosts, shadows, huge and above creatures, casters with misty step, any creature with teleports like phase spiders, etc. I've played grapplers and uncomfortably familiar with the many monsters that shut them down
>It could be important enough to use a grapple on but not important enough ot use a spell slot on.
If it's not worth a spell slot it's not important
>Because the caster is probably squishier than you and doesn't want to be in close combat, else they get pulverized.
60 feet isn't close combat. Many other spells need you to be that close. The caster should be that close to the battle to begin with
>It's possible someone might have a limited number of spells they can take and thus don't take a spell that does something similar to grappling because they know they can rely on you for it, because you know you do have the skill.
There are a limited amount of skills and the same logic can be applied in reverse. Moreover, actually being good at grappling requires a fair amount of stat and class investment, especially compared to just taking a spell

>tfw the druid just turns into something that's good enough at grappling and completely steals your meme-build's thunder

I want to be a melee character with access to Green Flaming Blade, and Booming Blade, what is the best way to be melee while having magical attacks like those?

>>51539162
Either Eldritch Knight, or a Paladin that dipped in Sorc.

See >>51538205

>>51539051
>They need at least 13 strength, probably have 14 strength.
>They'll have expertise and will still have advantage.
>So, at level 5, it'll be +8 to grapple, advantage and two possible grapple/shoves, or a grapple+attack (only need one attack to hit for sneak attack).
So is this a rogue or a barb? if an MC, you won't have the second attack by lvl 5. It's either attack or grapple or shove. It'll take you two rounds just to setup advantage, and by that early on many opponents will already be dead. If pure rogue same applies and you won't have tankiness to fall back on. If barb you have to expend rages for advantage and will have poor damage output without a two handed weapon

>>51539162
Magic Initiate

>>51539162
Favored Soul Sorcerer maybe? Eldritch Knight Fighter also works. You could also do like...Abjuration Wizard Mountain Dwarf so you have medium armour, some actual weapon options and a magic shield to absorb damage.

>>51539083
Kinda sounds like your DMs being a dick if they throw a lot of elementals/ghost/huge creatures at you, but I can understand meeting them sometimes.
Still, statistically by number of entries, I've found most paralysis-immune creatures can be grappled. Not sure if they're the common ones, but it includes a lot of undead.

>if it's not worth a spell slot it's not important
You've got a black and white mentality going on there. Like I said, it's possible for there to be an area where it's too much of a bother for a wizard to spend a spell slot and their concentration and action on, but not too much of a bother for the fighter to spend one of their attacks on.

>60ft isn't close combat
There are creatures that can and will move that far in a single turn, and the wizards might be playing it safe and using 120ft spells.

I'll admit though, the wizard could at least afford to be within 90ft, but it might be hard if the creature runs off and the only person who's nearby is the barbarogue who is already in melee range but left behind but can easily run 80ft as a bonus action and then make an attack action for two grapples.
>investment
All you need to do is take the athletics skill to get decent. Then if you get expertise you get even better. If you get advantage on strength, it's better. If you get bardic inspiraiton or something, rage...
Rogues with extra attack are viable, and it only costs them expertise in athletics. Of course, wizards are gods, but they're wizards.

>>51539180
It's a barbarian-rogue multiclass.
+10ft speed, advantage whenever you need it, rage for resistance and advantage to strength checks, danger sense for advantage to dex saves, shield proficiency, unarmoured defence for DEX+CON AC.. It all synergizes with what the rogue gets.

If you're just a rogue, you don't bother.
If you're a barbarian, you might want to bother, but eh.

And you don't expend rages for the pure purpose of grappling.

>>51539190
Magic Initiate with what class?

>there are DMs who don't ban greenflame blade, booming blade, heavy weapon fighting style, polearm master, and gnomes

What's wrong with you people?

>>51539194
Without expertise or advantage you'll be roughly 50/50 odds with most creatures, and that is not reliable
>>51539212
Then I repeat the MC will not have two attacks by lvl 5. And you expend the rage to get advantage so you can actually rely on the grapple getting through. You're rolling a d20 here, you don't want to be fucked by the odds

>>51539051
I can see how you're using it, and it's stupid. You're not defending your autistic mannerisms by explaining them.

And if the thing takes that many attacks to kill, all the more reason you shouldn't be wasting attacks on actions that do no damage. Hitting a monster in 5e isn't that hard - the critical thing is how many attacks you get and how much damage they do. Grappling and shoving deal 0 damage unless you can push or carry someone off a cliff or into some other environmental hazard. Therefore, outside of those circumstances, grappling and shoving are wastes of time.

>>51539224
Your favored melee class. I would recommend monk or battlemaster because they are the least boring, but any work save a raging barb

>>51539226
What's your problem with Gnomes?

>>51539180
>>51539212
Oh, also, don't forget shieldmaster.

A fighter-rogue or a barbarian-rogue might take shieldmaster to prone enemies as a bonus action. If they want to grapple, they'll have to drop their weapon, but they can drop their weapon after attacking and then grapple the same turn or do one of the handless grapple things, like crawford said would be a valid explanation for prone+grapple.

If it's a fighter 11 with levels of rogue, they get 3 potential grapples.

>>51539252
It's not reliable, but it's a valid back-up option if nobody else is there to stop the monster.
If you take a level of rogue, then you've suddenly got expertise for much better than 50/50 odds. If you take a level of barbarian, you've suddenly gotten advantage over a minute twice a day along with other barbarian benefits. Both a level of barbarian and rogue aren't unheard of for fighters.

They'll not have two attacks by level 5, but they will by 6, so that's close enough.

You expend the rage for resistance to damage, possibly extra damage if you're focusing strength instead of dexterity AND for advantage. Rage does more than just grant advantage.

>>51539162
Mix of Sorc and Rogue. Because you can Cast a Spell or Attack action, Extra Attack classes are less useful. Sneak attack however still applies, and Cunning Action Disengage synergises with Booming Blade.

Paladin 2/Sorcerer X is also a good one. Just save your spell slots for smites and more spell points, and enjoy Quickened Hold Person into auto-critting GFB + Divine Smite.

>object interaction
>attack action
>spell action
>bonus action
>reaction

Would it be better?

I don't know what martials would do with the spell action. Manuevers or something maybe.

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>>51539314
>letting casters attack and cast spells in the same turn

>>51539334
But why not?

It let's people have their spellsword fantasies, but it's not like the wizard's one quarterstaff attack with his measly strength is going to be the thing that makes him outshine the fighter

>>51539334
>implying the smart ones can't already

>>51539356
>thinking any caster would use his attack action to make a melee strike with a quarterstaff instead of Polymorphing himself into a rape beast and using THAT attack action while casting spells

>>51539356
You have greenblade and booming blade for spellsword fantasies. Giving an attack action will only benefit casters, and launch up gishes like pallies massively. It will also open the door for ridiculous MC builds. Just don't.

>>51539314
Replace it with class action and maybe we have something. Rogues use their cunning action, casters can cast a spell with it. Barbarians can shove rangers Paladins have spells or something similar. And fighter just gets to attack with their class action.

Though no matter what it would take years to do a full conversion cause then there are certain monsters that would go up in CR and be much much more deadly.

If you want to do that make a whole new system.

>>51539411
>Replace it with class action and maybe we have something. Rogues use their cunning action, casters can cast a spell with it.
That's what bonus actions are designed to be

>>51539376
Polymorphed creatures can't cast spells. True Polymorphed can, but, that's a 9th level spell.

>>51539381
>You have greenblade and booming blade for spellsword fantasies.

What about people who don't play with SCAG? That's a large number of people.

>Giving an attack action will only benefit casters,

You just have to give martials something to use their spell action for.

>and launch up gishes

They need it.

>like pallies

They don't, point taken.

>>51539411
Yeah, I meant it as a theoretical overhaul, not a quick homebrew hack job.

>>51539436
Fuck let's publish this before wizards get their shitty hands on it
Since 4e came out last, how about we call it 5e?

>>51539471
>What about people who don't play with SCAG? That's a large number of people.
Then they are fucking stupid

>>51539472
I dunno if that name will sell, maybe we should call it something like "The Next D&D"

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>>51539472
>>51539488
You're not funny

>>51539472
How about routesearcher?

>>51539481
>here's a $30 splatbook for the Forgotten Realms
>it happens to contain two extremely broken spells
>that is all you will ever use it for

>>51539500
>buying books
>not even having an up to date spellbook app
anon pls

>>51539381
By MC you mean Main Character?