Is MTG still a no-girls club?

Look at me, I'm replying to a bait thread!

>>51501964

Its not a bait thread but whatever ... I guess honestly this kind of a post is probably not great for /tg/ now that I think of it.

If this is just going to be a thread of shitposting then let the thread die.

>>51501942
Bringing your anime hug pillow to public events is frowned upon, laddie

Bumping this very important thread that I didn't read after the first sentence

>>51501942
>but are things generally getting more positive for getting women into the game and not being dicks to them?
Not as far as I have seen sadly. It depends on the crowd of course. I quit Magic for the same reason you did, the community near me just seemed to be made of the worst sorts of people. But when I play Malifaux with my female friends everyone is very mature and polite. It is a case of mileage varying.

It feels very much like a no-girl's club.

I can only speculate on why.

There is a lot of degenerate behavior in Magic. It's almost cult-like how players proudly promote the gambling aspects of this game. As such, this game attracts some people with problems and I'm sure weird awkward male-issues overlap with money-management issues.

You tack that part on top of the fact that the game is stupid expensive. So expensive in fact, that only a very stupid portion of people are willing to blow their mortgage payment on the game and then we have other terrible overlap. Really, I can't imagine anybody rational starting to play this game. Only a fucking idiot would start playing this game as is. Combine that with gender issues and this game is just about the most unappealing thing from a female perspective.

It's too bad, I would like it if women were around. I know this comes off the wrong way but shit-talking women is only entertaining if there's an actual woman around to shit talk back. Some people are just horrible and just don't censor themselves - there's a guy at my store who just makes every woman in the building feel awkward. You could call me a coward to not tell him to shut up, but unfortunately he's the big cheese in our community and I needed a place to play. I don't play anymore because it's just a socially toxic place, one that for no good reason is also hostile to women.

It's weird, my community is in the same situation. We started at ALA/ZEN too then had to migrate. And nothing's been good since.

In general, as a male, I always like it when women participate in whatever conversation is going on, even if they want express their dislike of the situation or someone's opinion. That's how good discussion starts. It's not that I'm sexist - I always talk as if we're sitting in a philosophy classroom and there is no offense meant. I wish women would engage but they just don't even when presented with interesting topics or addressed directly.

>>51501942
a while ago Maro said on his blog that the current player base of MtG is something like 2/3 male, 1/3 female.
I would go find the post but it was from a long time ago and I don't feel like doing all that searching

>>51502298
addendum: This statistic would be about the entire spectrum of magic players, not just the people who play at game stores. Because, as >>51502287 said, they can be just socially toxic places.

>>51502298
Yeah, as if that's a meaningful statistic. Given that Wizards gives zero fucks about data collection I'm willing to bet that figure means this:

Of the people who take our website/email surveys: 2/3 are male; 1/3 are female.

You ask anybody actually playing the game what the actual statistic is in their store and they'll tell you that 99/100 players are male. I don't know what is the benefit of lying to women that the game isn't a sausagefest to get them into the store. Just fucking tell them it's a fucking sausagefest instead of feeding them a bullshit statistic that is only going to mislead their expectations and is only going to disappoint them more when they find a community overrun by retarded guys.

>>51502332
For what it's worth to you or OP or anyone else in the thread, my FLGS has about six girls of ~80 players or a little under 8% of our player base.

To be sure, one is a middle-aged mom that comes to FNM with her ten year old kid (who also plays), but she's come to the midnight prerelease before and she knows how to play at least.

OP here

The weirdest thing to me is ... wouldn't you WANT women to play MTG? FNM can be date night. That's like ... the most win-win scenario I can think of for a MTG player. I don't know why some dudes will actively sabotage the opportunity to meet someone who shares in their interests.

I'm just so confused about the whole MTG culture... Like ... its hard to explain or understand but it feels like a self-defeating loop where clearly most guys would like to meet a woman who shares, but then when the opportunity knocks, they chase said woman away. It ... makes no sense.

>>51502287
The game is as expensive as you want it to be.

I agree with you on the shit talking point, without 'opposition' faggots go ott in their sperg.

>>51502465

That's a pretty rad mom actually. When I was a kid my mom threw out all my vintage cards because it "was distracting me from my schoolwork"

fucking retarded immigrant parent mentality...

>>51502470
What's this? Speed dating but you have to play MTG against the girl?

I think you may have something here.

>>51502470
Stop.

Never identify with the 'culture' if you'd rather not validate it.

Also,

your gf will never enjoy this game and it's community unless she's under 6/10.

>>51501942
>I know its impossible to gauge from store-to-store how things are,
The Warmahordes players you know probably include some ex-Warhammer types, and the smart ones will tell you it isn't the game, it's the players.

My local CCG crowd is mixed, but we went from one store to three, and the tolerance of the store that started it all locally may not have carried over to all of the heirs. I know one of the newer stores has been charitably described as a rat hole opened to give the proprietor wholesale access for his own use, while the store that inherited most of the original crowd is much more open and happy. It helps that the good store's crowd now has married adult pairs who started playing at the store as kids who would stomp out any new kid who got out of line socially.
The downside is babies in the store...

>>51502465
1% or 8%; kitchen table or store it doesn't matter. It's still a long ways off from 33%.

The ultimate point is that their data collection is dogshit and they spout useless statistics for their stupid player base to parrot without critically thinking it over. The entry-level marketing and PR tactics working on Magic players is just the worst thing on the planet and actively contributes to making communities terrible places.

>>51502470
Magic players generally want to meet people with an equal level of passion. And sorry to say, many new players and/or women just lack that passion.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to introduce someone to the game regardless of gender. But here's the problem with Magic, everyone wants to be king know-it-all and it doesn't matter if they're good at the game it doesn't mean they're good teachers. And people are just terrible teachers; nobody's sat down and thought about the best way to ease someone into this ridiculously complex environment. So I can't get a word in or form a cohesive lesson without some guy butting in with their two cents. Imagine I'm teaching you to drive and just as you're turning someone in the backseat tells you about the wipers - that's what teaching Magic is like.

So, not only do new players expect a lesson handout, experienced players perpetuate the lie that they and the community are capable of helping someone learn the game and ultimately fucking fail hard at it. The fact that women have their gender working against them doesn't help their situation.

In some way I blame Wizards. Every year they find some new half-assed means of helping new players. But it benefits them to have players be as ignorant and addicted as possible so they waste money "discovering" this game; and players perpetuate that mechanism because they want to shark and dominate a new player because it makes them hard to know they're top dog.

And that may come off as crass and I'm sorry but that's the godawful truth.

>>51502497
>Never identify with the 'culture' if you'd rather not validate it.

Sorry ... What does this mean? Am I correct when I interpret your statement as "Dont try to understand the culture if you aren't a part of it"? I have a feeling that I'm misinterpreting you though.

>your gf will never enjoy this game and it's community unless she's under 6/10.

Well I have to disagree with you here... my fiancee does enjoy the game... a lot. She loves the complexity, the deckbuilding, and the execution of her deck.

Building magic decks is a nice creative outlet for both of us which is really good because our day jobs are sort of mundane office jobs with not a ton of room for that sort of creativity.

And to finish addressing your final point, we did enjoy games at the smaller FLGS. It was a pretty rad group of people. Just the larger LGS had this wierd vibe going on with its community.

>>51502470
>FNM can be date night
If I wanted date night, I go to a speed dating night. I want to relax and play cards.

>Be me
>Get into Magic in highschool
>Get my friends into it
>We played in the library
>Sometimes girls would come up to us
>"Hey, can I play this game with you guys?"
>Us: "Sure! We'd be happy to teach you!"
>"Heh, nevermind!" starts barking out laughter and walking back to their table
>We'd still offer to teach any girl who wanted to play the game even if we knew they'd come from that table.

>>51501942
Larger Events seem to be much less hostile than LGS. IIRC a third of players polled are female but they are almost all casual the community just seems so hostile at times.

>>51502576

>Magic players generally want to meet people with an equal level of passion. And sorry to say, many new players and/or women just lack that passion.

I can see the points made in your post, but I have to disagree with this line.

Many magic players I meet want to meet people who want to play magic cards. Being passionate about it is really cool, but hardly necessary.

And that passion will build over time - just like it did for you at some point - and then you will have more people to enjoy the hobby with in the end.

>In some way I blame Wizards. Every year they find some new half-assed means of helping new players.

Actually those free 30-card sample decks with only evergreen mechanics were great, I thought. My fiancee started with those decks. The girl clerk at the store gave her two decks to take home when I dusted off a small handful of old cards to trade in for new cards... when she got home she surprised me with the decks - the clerk girl taught her how to play while I was learning about what EDH was all about. And she legitimately stomped me. And that felt good for her so she built her Mayael the Anima deck and thats how it all began.

tl;dr the 30-card decks do work but you need a friend who knows how to play to mentor you.

>>51502486
Schoolwork is very important. Whatever the reality of your education and home life situation, don't hate your parents for wanting a better life for you than they had. Be grateful if they made a lot of sacrifices for you.

>>51502703

That's a pretty shit situation you were in, bro... in our school the girls just ignored the mtg players.
Worst thing is, there probably existed nerd girls that wanted to play but didn't want to be completely ostracized when the "popular girls" were dicks to you and your friends.

High school is a garbage barometer of social expectations in general, though.

>>51501942
Why would girls want to be around a bunch of usually smelly, unkempt nerds playing cards to begin with?

MtG isn't an autoclub, you're not actively learning a useful skill by playing it, or getting reps, or acquiring anything that would appeal to most women and the people that gravitate toward it are usually the type that are uncomfortable doing things more proactive anyway. I understand that there's nothing stopping a girl from being as introverted as any male might be but those types do other shit to deal with that, not fucking MtG of all things. MtG being a boys club is not only out of left field in terms of that mattering but why would it matter to begin with? It's just a card game.

>>51502983

>Why would girls want to be around a bunch of usually smelly, unkempt nerds playing cards to begin with?

Yeah, what is with that anyway? I don't think you can restrict this to women in general because when I go to a store to buy shit, and the place smells like an armpit - I don't want to sit there and play games; I want to GTFO as soon as possible.

How do you guys survive a busy FNM where you are shoulder to shoulder with other people?

>>51501942
Obvious bait is obvious
That being said. My brother taught 4 people how to play magic 15 years ago, 3 of them were girls, I was the 4th

>>51502891
I didn't really mind it that much.

I'm in college now, and given that there's no real "lunch breaks" or anything, I don't really have a reason to stay after my classes. Don't know any MTG or tabletop players, closest I saw was a couple guys playing Wife Schwarz or whatever it's called in the dining hall.

>>51503098

Oh when I was in college there was a nerd club and they played mtg and board games. It was actually a lot of fun, and the people were nice and easygoing.

Strangely enough, I was back on campus a few years later and was going to drop in to see if anyone from my undergrad was still there as a grad student, but turned around when I heard obnixious, stale reddit memes being shouted down the hallway. So the club changed a lot since I left. YMMV.

>>51501942
Insular communities treat all outsiders like shit. Having a vagina doesn't make you a special case.

>>51503097
Nice.

>>51501942
Depends entirely on your LGS

Several girls come to ours every week and nobody gets too autistic about it

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>>51501942
>muh internet is a boys only club
>muh science and math is a boys only club
>muh vidya is a boys only club
>muh card games are a boys only club
>muh literally everything is a boys only club

>>51503161
Op here.

If what you say is true, then why was I able to sit down at a table and nobody cared? The same went for the other dudes from my small FLGS. It just went ... wierd and unwelcoming... when my fiancee walked in after parking the car.

So, yeah. I would say that the response from the players was based on her gender.

>>51503253
>I had a slightly bad spider-sense when she entered and clearly this would happen at every single event with every single mtg player

>>51501942
not gonna lie, muh dick.

>>51503246
>muh makeup tutorials is a boys only club
>muh shitty fanfictions is a boys only club
>muh pajamas parties is a boys only club

>>51503258
Heh .. you make a legit point.

I didn't want to write a whole essay about what happened that day so I never elaborated on the details...

I cross checked with a bro-tier former clerk of the closed FLGS who was present at the store that day and playing MTG and he kind of said something along the lines of "yeah ... thats kind of how it is here ... sorry"

I cant remember the exact details also because this happened a few years ago.

>>51503246

Literally not what he said at all

>>51502587
>inb4 he calls your fiancee ugly

>>51501942
It never was. Just stop being autist, grab a deck and play with people

OP here,

Alright thanks for the discussion /tg/. Looks like shit hasn't changed much. I still don't understand why things ended up this way, but it is what it is.

Guess i'll put my MTG cards back on the shelf and keep playing warmahordes and RPGs for the time being.

>>51503391
Why don't you play kitchentable with your fiancee ? You don't have to go to a LGS to play MtG
>But always using the same decks get boring
Get a prerelease pack and play sealed deck

>>51503274
>muh makeup tutorials is a boys only club
Queens aside, more and more guys are getting into effeminate behavior and even non-metrosexuals care greatly about personal care, fitness (for the looks) and fashion, so we're not that far off.

>muh shitty fanfictions is a boys only club
It sure as fuck isn't a girl''s only club.

>muh pajamas parties is a boys only club
We just don't call them pajama parties. I pity you if you never had a sleepover or partied the night away at one of your friend's empty house before college.

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>>51503421

Well, obviously the solution is to call everyone who plays MTG giant fucking shitlords, write articles about how the "magic player" identity is dead and spend more time painting your nails to look like your mana lands instead of playing the game.

>>51501942
As a former MTG tournament grinder, this is my take on it:

I never met any woman who legitimately enjoyed playing MTG when I played (2003-2012). The girls that did play played because their boyfriends played, including my ex-girlfriend. My ex never got past the basics of the game, she never understood the very complicated interactions that make magic fun. If you don't legitimately love the game, you won't want to keep playing it.

The two women I know of that legitimately love the game at a competitive level are Melissa DeTora and Gaby Spartz. DeTora is clearly infatuated with the game, she's been on the pro tour for years. Spartz I know little about other than she's a commentator that has an understanding of advanced MTG concepts. The level of knowledge Spartz has isn't achievable by somebody who doesn't legitimately like the game.

So why don't women love the game at a competitive level the same way men do? I think it does have to do with the conditions you have to play MTG in: local game-stores that are very much boy's clubs and huge tournaments with thousands of dudes. Dudes that are very competitive—competitive to the point of being unpleasant to be around. As a man, I don't mind being seated across from dudes with unpleasant attitudes for an 8-hour tournament. If I were a woman, I would probably be uncomfortable and/or annoyed sitting across from unpleasant guys for hours on end.

>>51503421
>metrosexuals
Yunno the people responsible for pushing that word into the common lexicon did so to sell their grooming advice service to affluent professionals who don't have time to learn style.

They then turned around and said all that "metrosexual" stuff was bullshit and that what women REALLY want are manly men - like lumberjacks.

>>51503453
What WAS your point? Because claiming any of those are gender-restricted is ridiculous.

>>51503634
Now you get it.

>>51502470
Why the fuck would you think that's a good idea?

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I've never once seen get judged based on sex, race, age, or sexuality in years of playing. If you're getting treated like a shitter, it's probably because you're a shitter.

>>51503511
I dont think op was talking about playing competitively. I think he was going in to play casually

What you say makes sense but isnt relevant to what the op was talking about

Unless you are just trying to make the point that the competitive scene is also shit

>>51503707
I was making a point that competitive MTG is shit. It has been since I was 12 and getting talked down to for playing affinity.

My gf's pretty open minded, we love board games (among other things, not our chief hobby), and she was a fan of the Pokemon TCG so she was willing to try Magic. The artwork was appealing (cool female characters, creatures and beasts) and the collecting aspect was a plus. What put her off was when we went to an FLGS that actually played Magic.

The men weren't macho and rude, neither did they stare, but they collectively had terrible BO and looked like they didn't care for themselves at all. She has legitimate clinical OCD so this was impossible for her to deal with. She had an awful time and it put her off playing entirely.

>>51502470
Its not a win-win if there are 10 guys for any one girl. These girls will get annoyed quickly and leave.

Two of my female friends started playing the same time I did (among others), but they don't have that much interest anymore. But all of my friends don't wanna play Magic that much at the moment, although it seems like that is open for change.

The playgroup I'm playing with is purely male. I don't go to FNM as I don't have a good deck for that. The prerelease events I went to had one or two girl each with 30 guys participating as well.

I'm more curious how mtg evolved into that. I'm used to that by video games, but there the playerbase was male dominated in the first place since the late 80s.
MTG is sort of a new hobby too, isn't combined with technology which boys seem to like more and pretty gender neutral you'd think. So why do women not play it that much?

There are two girls that go to the same MTG night I do, they both have bf's and are kinda shy but they're pretty good.

It might help that it's a small group but no-one makes a big deal out of it, I assume that's the same for everywhere else.

>>51503086
I have to agree. I'm not a woman and there's gaming stores that make me uncomfortable.

You can usually tell as soon as you set your foot in: the stares you get, the smell and how people are dressed and groomed. The moment I see a fat, hairy asscrack the moment I step in the store and smell armpit juice I know I'll just pretend to look around and then leave before anyone can ask me questions.

Then there's stores that are decent places with decent people and would you believe it it also has girls. Who would have thought.

>>51503511
This. It's the competitive nature of the game (and it can get hella cutthroat sometimes!) that seems to be the biggest turn-off for women. They don't want to have to fight that hard for "fun", so they go elsewhere.

>>51502470
>WANT women to play MTG
I want people to play the game. Their sex is irrelevant. From what I've seen, women are just not interested in the game by and large. Maybe there is a hostile atmosphere where you play but no one bats and eyelash here. There are a handful of girls the show up on occasion and they get treated the same as anyone else.

I can't think of a more lame destination for a date than my lgs. She really doesn't like being around ignored by "those sweaty nerds" anyway.

>>51503253
Because you're a grognard and she isn't. The point still stands that it has nothing to do with gender.

I know a really solid (40/60 split) of men and women that play, but yeah, a lot for MTG players are shit. Also, if they weren't hit on or belittled constantly, you'd have more female players.

I'm not even white knighting, it's fucking cringy when I see it.

>>51502287
W E W L A D
E
W
L
A
D

Where do you losers congregate such that EVERY lgs you go to us full of smelly fat neckbeards who shit on newbies and the owner's wife's son blatantly cheats but gets away with it. I've played MtG for more than a decade in New England and I've seen lgs go from ~1% female to ~10% in twohe recent years. There are occasional people with actual mental disabilities but I've never actually see need the fabled lgs troll because stores here understand fostering an environment people want to play and spend money in

Because the game itself (as in the core mechanics and rules with all flavour and lore removed) appeals more to men. Some women enjoy it, while most people, men and women both, just don't give a shit. Same reason why math and science fields have more men in them. For some psychological reason, men enjoy playing with math and numbers more

>>51502660

So do some women, but they can't because autistic weirdos think they own all /tg/ hobbies because Gary Gygax had a dick.

>>51502983

Why would guys want to be in that group either? Girls want to play for the same reasons guys do. To play.

>>51505552

It is absolutely some cringy shit. Just one of the many layers of cringe you get sometimes, depending on what store you go to.

Like, look, guys, I'm no social butterfly myself, but let's at least be polite to the other players. No trashtalking, no hitting on players of the opposite sex, no tantrums. I don't think I'm asking for that much, and yet something like half of the stores I've gone to in my life would have failed that very basic metric.

I've never seen a lot of women playing MTG ever since I started in Gatecrash. First one I saw was in a couple RTR/THS FNMs, iirc. Also saw her in a couple prereleases and she'd always force Boros in some way. Maybe saw her in DGM pre, too, but I'm not too sure. Saw her like 3 or 4 times, I think.

Later moved to another store, played a couple times in a league against another girl, but I suppose the main reason she was there was because of her boyfriend. Haven't seen her again since the league ended. Also met a third woman in that same store, but she seemed like some crazy bitch who was lusting for nerd cock, as she blatantly teased both me and a friend of mine. She was also extremely annoying and loud, to the point where she was clearly not welcome in that store and stopped going there. There was a fourth one, but I only saw her a couple times over a month or two and never again. Was clearly just playing for fun, didn't really care to get involved in FNMs or whatever, where everyone is playing tier 1 decks and trying their hardest to win a pack.

>>51505523

It has to do with assuming women are outsiders.

Don't pretend the gender doesn't matter. Excuse it or explain it or say it doesn't happen all you like, people who go to flgs and are female or had female friends go with them or who pay attention to other humans all know that what op is talking about totally happens.

As to why "because nerds, particular magic players, are fucking autistic losers who can't handle normal social situations and talking to women is hard even for the ones who aren't jaded assholes and those ones are going to look at a woman and instantly see every woman who ever laughed near them and every rejection they ever received and lash out if possible." I mean it's not hard to see what going on.

The solution is to raise a daughter who can get into nerd shit early and has tough skin, or to encourage your gf or friends to endure it. Only by women putting up with this shit now can we make a future with slightly less retarded gender gaps in our hobbies.

>>51505828
And is that at all surprising?

>>51503274

Some of the best makeup artists in the industry are men.

Men can do most things girls do and will definitely not be kept out by women. Who's making fun of a male makeup artist? Girls who also like makeup, or dudes who hear about it?

>Have a shop where everyone can act like an adult, be cool with each other
>usually legacy, draft and EDH
>everyone is in their mid 20s to mid 30s
>Helps that its also a bar/cafe
>70/30 men to women

>shop in my last town had a ton of high schoolers spouting memes
>Modern, Standard, Draft, and EDH
>some grognards that had 0 other ways to interact with people
>pizza and fast food surrounding the place
>elitest dicks that went to every grand prix and open, one claims he made it to the pro tour but couldn't get a ride because lol no job
>70/30 men to women

Honestly I think its just that some areas have less women that want to play magic for whatever reason they come up with on their own

>>51502889
Kids are under zero obligation to be grateful to their parents. Parents however are under obligations to raise their kids.

>>51501942
Girls in general aren't interested in technical things. This isn't a rule, but a general guideline. Have you honestly never noticed this in life?

>>51503421
>Proper grooming being of appealing appearance is now effeminate

>>51505886
this

>>51505424

I played the agot lcg at nationals a few years ago and it was fun, I don't think anyone was particularly shitty. But I've had people ask like "did your boyfriend help you with your deck" or "where did you get that deck" etc. But that's a ffg lcg and the 2.0 community is really shitty now. It was basically a dead game so Idk if that makes a difference.

But ya, I'm not gonna put up with shit too long I'll just go play video games or whatever. I've got my own friends for games, don't really need flgs if it's not worth it.

>>51505892

Aren't card games a traditionally female thing? Bridge, whist, etc.. plenty of women have played games throughout history, why should mtg be so different in terms of appeal?

>>51505934
Sure, but what about black jack and poker which have more male players?

>>51505845
>It has to do with assuming women are outsiders.
Because women do tend to be outsiders. Sometimes a heuristic is just a heuristic.

>>51501942

This is more a problem inherent to FLGS (usually male-dominated places) than to MTG itself, and even so, it doesn't happen everywhere.

When it happens it's better to just avoid it though. You're not going to change people in a store. It would be ideal if you could, but usually in those situations being shitty is something that has zero consequences for them, so just try another store.

>>51505944
I'd wager that has more to do with the gambling aspect than the cards which happen to be the vehicle.

>>51502470
>wouldn't you WANT women to play MTG
Holy shit, it's almost like the people who would like to see women play and the autistic sperglords are... COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PEOPLE

>>51501942
I find one of the largest problems to be people who can't differentiate the internet from reality.

>>51501942
Magic wasn't a no-girls club until the girls nobody wants to play with started to pretend they cared about the game to get more clickbait money from desperate virgins and social media "activists".

>>51501942
Because a lot of MTG players are neckbeard autists who have never held a real conversation with a girl. They would be this way with or without the game, it's just that games like this attracts a lot of them for some reason.
Source: Am neckbeard autist

>>51506028
Ironically you would lose that bet. Check out the slot machines nex time your in a casino. Most slots have women, while tables have more men

>>51506091
Oh, that's interesting. I've only ever played with acquaintances for low or no stakes, and it was usually close to even.

>>51506138
You're right bridge etc. is mostly played by women, though thats more due to "my grandma/mom taught me". More technical games draw more men in general . This has been shown time and time again.

>>51501942
It's not that women don't like Magic because of the men who like Magic. It's that WotC and tumblredditfacebook insist on pushing the game for the wrong crowd. Cosplayers, fanartists and bloggers will never feel "safe" in a Magic enviroment be it GPs, the FNM or the kitchen table because they don't care about the game, they care about the IP. And of course this clashes with the people who are there to PLAY THE GAME.

My LGS is full of women, the trick is these women aren't fujoshits and tumblr SJWs. They're dorito gremlins and female jocks/sports fans. Competitive women who enjoy PLAYING a GAME at varied degrees of competitiveness.

>>51506246
But contract bridge is one of the most technical games you can play with your standard 52-card deck, no?

Late to the party, so I didn't read this gigantic thread, but there's a simple reason: boobs.

Seriously, in every other bastion of nerddom you have a group of boobs who monopolize all attention without the necessary passion or dedication because it's the easy way to attention. Since mtg players are usually part of some other extremely nerdy hobbies, they understand that once females are openly accepted, you'll get stupid beta males white knighting and throwing money at them to seem cool, which pisses off a large number of people. My flgs has quite a large female playerbase, but we're also in Canada, so by and large most of us have touched a female boob other than our mom's at somepoint in time. Still, you get the grognards who have no concept of humanity, and interact with women like they're some sort of fancy videogame with the tips and tricks they picked up on the internet.

The way to combat this is by having reasonable males mitigate the retardation. I have a cute girlfriend who I've been dating for 4 years, so when I play with a female player, I go out of my way to just play magic. Sure, we may have slight small talk, but they're there to play magic, I'm there to play magic, so I focus my conversations about magic, and we all have a good time.

>>51502470
Dude what? Hell I do a lot of stuff with my gf tabletop and she plays magic. Those things aren't dates. They are things you do together. How socially malajusted are you that you that you can't take your girlfriend on a normal ass date.

>>51502470
>wouldn't you WANT women to play MTG?

no.

>>51506302
Sure, but if you've been playing since your were seven you wouldn't notice. Trying to learn it/mtg when you're 24 is whole other ball game. Esp since mtg is full of grognard neckbeards and not nice old ladies who give you hard candy if only she could find it in her purse, oh dear, where are my glasses?

>>51502474
This is true but most of my friends prefer hearthstone over magic. And we've given magic a try before. It seems we only really like it casually. And parts of the lore too.

You know, I hear a lot about this kind of stuff, but I never see it.

At Aether Revolt prerelease, out of ~100 players, there were about 20 women. So, i don't get where this "boys club" mentality even exists. Is it purely on the internet?

>>51506465
Pretty much everything SJWs whine about exists only on the internet.

>>51506465
If 80% isn't majority guys to you, then what do you count as mostly guys?

>>51506487
Do you demand 50% male attendance to baby showers, beauty salons and yoga classes or is it only male mayorities that make you angry?

>>51506487
It's sure as hell not "boiz rule, gurlz drule"

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>>51506487
But doesn't the term 'Boys Club' imply no girls allowed we hate icky girls get away from our man space?

When in reality the majority of people are generally nice to the majority of other people and the majority of magic players just want to sit down and play regardless of the gender of the person across from us.

So either, I'm an ignorant fool, or people are just bitching about a problem that's not really there or is easily fixed.

there are a few girls at my LGS and they all only play EDH

>>51502470
i play magic to go have fun with my m8s and enjoy the last bastion of white males only. i dont play magic to be forced to interact with fags, blacks, or women. if that is what i wanted i would go do literally anything else. women shit on me my entire life for playing magic until like 2 years ago when they realized they could get attention at the LGS because they have a vagina and can build the same elf deck that literally every other girl plays. im tired of all this "we need girls" shit in magic, if they actually liked it they wouldnt have shat on magic and games in general for the last 2 almost 3 decades

>>51506085
this

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>No one has posted this yet

>>51506568
>>51506569

No, I'm just wondering constitutes majority guys if 80% of the people at that event were men, and that poster didn't see it as mostly men/indicative of there being something amiss when in a game or event that shouldn't be gendered, there seems to be an obvious gender bias.
Is it because women don't like card games? Is it because the hobby is to expensive, and only people who are already invested are men, so the only people who invest further are also men? Is it because the vast majority of players smell like apricot brandy, and most women smell like peach whisky? Is it because of this guy? >>51506348

>>51506581
Boys/girls Club indicates anything with a predominance of men/women in it, that is also traditionally male/female. Golf, for instance, was a boys club for may years, but is now moving more towards equal distribution while still being mostly male. Tennis, on the other hand, is a girls club, and mostly has remained as such, certain exemplars notwithstanding.
The rule of thumb that I have seen is, with a layman's awareness of the subject in question, figure out the 'best' most prominent player/person involved in the activity, then start going down the list of big names. If there are a few from each gender, then it's probably equal. If it's pretty much nothing but one gender, then it's probably not.

The reason that this matters is that for MtG to continue to grow and develop, as well as remain solvent and interesting, it needs to expand its player base. The market is pretty well filled in most developed countries, except for women. If more women became interested in MtG, and the ratio at your prereleases started moving more towards 70/30, even, that means more players overall, more interest in the game, and more diversity (so you aren't playing against the same decks each and every game).

>>51506361

I feel like the difficulty of the game has way less to do with that than the community. Girls who start gaming in middle or high school are just as dedicated and skilled as male players, but they're usually scared off by bad behavior before getting invested.

I mean think about it, who plays mahjong? Old Chinese ladies Dominos? Latina women.

Same thing with mobile games vs video games. Women love games, they just hate putting up with retarded assholes.

why can't socially functional people and women be satisfied with controlling all of normie society?

You told me to go be a gross loser somewhere else and I did. Why are you here now?

>>51506763

You're assuming girls aren't also told to go be gross losers? And that all women and "normies" should be treated badly because someone treated you badly. Just because I'm capable of grooming myself and pretending not to be shy I shouldn't get to play the games I love in public?

>>51506763
Damn, that's an impressive persecution complex.

>>51501942
maybe just go to a better store?

>>51506794
It's kinda true, before Mtg and RPG were seen as uncool and loser only hobby, but now that geeky things are mainstream everybody want to try it and tell the loser who always played the game that they need to change.

>>51506842
Since that's entirely anecdotal, and I've never experienced that myself, I'm going to say you're full of bullshit.

>>51506748
Competitive women will play chess, video games, sports, board games, card games and brag about their fantasy football picks.
Bitchy women will complain others are having fun and demand things change to suit their bitch ways.
Lukewarm women will see someone "suffering" online and write tirades on how it's unfair and they should be accomodated because diversity and shit.

Shamefully, most women are not of the competitive sort. But that is to be expected, not everyone can be GOAT.

>>51506777
because table top games in general are basically the last thing that nerds and rejects have. it used to be video games but then women and normies came around and got that casualized to all fuck and ostracized actual nerds. table top shit has been universally hated among women and normies for decades and now that it is seen as somewhat socially acceptable they will eventually be the downfall of that hobby and market

there is literally tons of historical evidence to support this from other things

>>51501942
>117 replies
>no one else is bothered that her nails aren't in WUBRG order

>>51506777
"Follow the rules or get out" works both ways.
And she's not gonna sleep with you just because you harassed basement grognards for not wanting to play children's games with her.

>>51506858
>Competitive men will play chess, video games, sports, board games, card games and brag about their fantasy football picks.
>Bitchy men will complain others are having fun and demand things change to suit their bitch ways.
>Lukewarm men will see someone "suffering" IRL and write tirades on how it's unfair and they should be accommodated because diversity and shit.
>Shamefully, most men are not of the competitive sort. But that is to be expected, not everyone can be GOAT.

>>51506857
>I've never experienced that myself
thats probably because you are one of the people he is talking about that came in and is ruining heis hobby

>>51503389
You can't play mtg without being an autist.

>>51506881
>expecting attention whores to care about the IP they're bandwagoning.
They'll ruin this shit and walk on to ruin something else without ever learning what mana is for.

>>51506899
Since I've been playing RPGs and MtG for the last 20 odd years, it's entirely probable, but I'm still gonna go with you being full of bullshit.

>>51506777
>And that all women and "normies" should be treated badly because someone treated you badly.

Who's treating them badly? I'm just being the quasi-functional autist I always was. I had clubbed together with a bunch of other quasi-functional autists, not so much because I like quasi-functional autists (who does?), but because that's the only company I really rate. Now the normies want into my autism club for some reason.

Well they don't really want into the club as such, they just want the clubhouse, and they would like for me to leave.

>>51506898
Is this supposed to be an argument?
Whiney men and bleeding hears is how we got "roughing the passer" penalties in football.

>>51506842

Nobody has ever told me I shouldn't like /tg/ shit. Except people like you within the hobby trying to gatekeep women out.

Honestly, you're saying I shouldn't be allowed to hang out at my flgs because I'm a woman, because you assume that as a woman I must be there because Felicia Day made it alright. I've been playing games pretty seriously since I was 14, and I played Pokemon long before that and plenty of other shit. But *You* get to decide I'm an outsider because you want a safe space from the imaginary invaders? That's not autism that's called being a bitter, selfish faggot.

So, no one has posted this:

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/110840728088/do-you-guys-have-any-data-on-the-breakdown-of-the

He Doesn't post any actual survey or research, but it's all we have to go on. So until it's unproven, we have to take it at face value.

62% make isn't exactly a boys club now, is it?

>>51506934

They just ask that you not deliberately treat them differently than you treat the other gamers.

I mean, are you saying it's unfair for people to expect you to bathe regularly? I guarantee most of the complaints people have about mtg public events could be solved if the players gave a shit, but they'd rather be awful. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Mtg players are gross -> gross people flock to mtg. They're gross so non gross people just play netrunner. Girls get scared out so they make their own private groups where they don't feel like everyone else at the table would drug and rape them given a chance. Que sera sera I guess

>>51505985
>Women tend to be outsiders


...what

>>51506984
>They just ask that you not deliberately treat them differently than you treat the other gamers.
I don't and never have.

>>51506971
Sometimes I wonder if what bothers the people who insist that Magic has an "unhealthy" community, is that men are having fun in it.

I'm having a hard time seeing why most would care if women plat mtg, wouldn't it be better just to meet/take them to a bar or something?

>>51507018
Because the the atypical player of MtG is an asshole. Who happens to be a guy.

>>51506737
That is because that pic is retarded and so are you.

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>>51506737

>>51506879

Im pretty sure its inevitable that this happens. Especially when mtg players tart having kids and also want their daughters to share in their hobby.

But honestly if mtg dies its not going to be the fault of women/normies/etc.. its going to be stupid decision making on wotc's part.

>>51507017

Then maybe the complaints you think are happening don't fucking apply to you????

"Guys who call girls sluts should stop"
"Fuck you I do what I want"
"Do you call girls sluts?"
"Well no"

????

This is a pretty evenhanded explanation of the process we're talking about here: https://status451.com/2016/09/15/social-gentrification/

>The push for the gaming community to become more friendly and welcoming, to stop with constant insults and name calling, to become a pleasant place for people to play games — obviously a world in which I don’t get death-threatened by 12 year olds in Barrens Chat is a better world. But in the process, nobody cared about my friend. His shitty life just got shittier, because some media yuppies don’t like swear words.

>>51507041
>atypical
Indeed, the average player is chill and the people harassing them are the assholes.
4chan wont let you lie.

>>51507155
This is 4chan. That kind of proves my point, doesn't it?
Serious magic players are jerks, because being a jerk increases your chances of winning.

>>51507094

If not being a shitty person to other humans ruins your life you probably need therapy and a better coping mechanism.

>>51506997
Context, anon.

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>>51507221
>t. anonymous 4chan user

>>51507094
I hate that article, because being a social reject doesn't absolve you from being a bitch. Just because the jocks in high school didn't care about your fantasy life doesn't mean you get to flip tables when things don't go your way, or invade other people's space, or never shower. That's the result of poor social reinforcement, not being socially retarded.

>>51502587
Due stop insulting your girl godamnit! It's your fiance!

>>51507221

There are people for whom not being shitty isn't an option. They don't wake up in the morning and say "mwahaha, how shall I shitlord it up today?" It's just all they can manage.

From what you described in the OP, I don't see how your fiance was treated poorly. Can you name some specifics? What exactly constitutes "being a dick"?

>>51507094
how can you take such a poorly written article seriously in the slightest

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>>51507094
>equates unfriendliness with violent crime
>brings up utilitarianism at all unironically

>>51507310

The article goes out of its way to expound at length that throwing the autismos out is an unambiguous social good. How fucking hateful are you that "yeah, throw them out, it's all for the best, but maybe have some empathy" is too much?

>>51507379
>equates

Do you not know what analogies are?

>>51507398
the author clearly doesn't considering he has to explain what his analogy actually is after every
fucking
sentence

>>51507389
That's not what the article says though.

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>>51507398
Insidious casuistry which means to assert in one moment and has the gall to shelter within its own failings the next.

>>51507452

Which apparently wasn't often enough.

>>51501942
I'm an edh player, got my girlfriend into the game and she plays weekly with me, and other regulars at our lgs by the uni.

Honestly,I see plenty of women play mtg, and the men here don't sperg out, so...

>>51502497

>Also,
>your gf will never enjoy this game and it's community unless she's under 6/10.

Bullshit, maybe where you come from.
My girlfriend is attractive, and she has 6 edh decks SHE made.

ive seen many very attractive women play mtg also, (with a flock of geeky men attending their every whim, but regardless)

>>51507466

>Which, again: is for the greater good. I just wish it came with some empathy.

>>51505772
>autistic weirdos think they own all /tg/ hobbies because Gary Gygax had a dick.
Really? If women were as interested in these hobbies as men there wouldn't even be a discussion here, because women would be as prevalent as men.

The fact that you have concocted some non-sense world in which legions of "autistic weirdos" are chasing women out of their "territory" is more telling of your own insecurities and delusions, than anything else.

>>51507489
Except that the author continually pounds home the fact that they are 'a real nerd,' and that gentrification is bad, because where else will the sexist, racist, unwashed masses who can't handle anything but echo chambers and hugboxes go?

>>51507469
apparently not, considering the author clearly couldn't figure out what an analogy is

>>51507536
>because where else will the sexist, racist, unwashed masses who can't handle anything but echo chambers and hugboxes go?
well, where WILL they go?

>>51507494
The issue is that some dudes just dont want women to play.

But MTG is becoming a mainstream thing. Along with D&D magic cards are starting to be cool to normies. Back in the 90s you would eat shit for playing mtg or d&d in highschool, even moreso if you were a girl because none of this shit was marketed towards women.

but thats not the case anymore. Look at any mtg or d&d advertisement. It shows both men and women .. of whatwver cultural group sitting and having fun playing these games.

And like with any change some people are resisting it for whatever reason. Its going to happen eventually whether you like it or not. Grognards will be drowned in a sea of normies.

Get used to this idea and learn to cope with the change.

>>51507553
/Erp general/

/Mlp general/

The last bastions for their kind.

>>51507587
>just bite the pillow
Why are you even here?

>>51507587
>none of this shit was marketed towards women
Exactly. And that's one of my points. Women aren't interested in /tg/ shit for a multitude of reasons, this idea that they're not playing because "le stinky nerd" didn't look at them the right way is probably on the very bottom of that list.

It's a collection of fringe cases made into a narrative for the purpose of causing drama.

I want to hear specific examples of how women are bullied out of /tg/ hobbies, that isn't related to the average MTG player's lack of general hygiene. Because I've literally never seen or heard of a woman being purposefully driven away because of her gender.

>>51507721
Do you also want to ask a victim of murder how they feel about being murdered?

>>51507721
Did you even read OP's story?

>>51507776
What the fuck is that analogy? Are you having a stroke or something?

>>51507795
>someone looked surprised

wow, a fate worse than death
how horrible, people looked round as someone entered a room

i bet if they hadn't the complaints would have been EVERYONE IGNORED ME

>>51507798
How do you expect, on /tg/, to find anyone who has been bullied out of /tg/ hobbies?
How, while living, do you expect to talk to anyone who has been murdered?
How, while using a computer, do you expect to talk to anyone who has never used anything electronic before?
How, while covered in peanut butter, do you expect to shake hands with someone with a peanut allergy?

>>51507635

It feels kind of retarded to autistically screech about normies getting into mtg when wizards is pushing for normies to get into their game.

REEEEEEEE girls and normalfags are invading my last bastion of autistic might! Now what do i do with my life? REEEEEEEEEEEEE!

>>51507843
>How do you expect, on /tg/, to find anyone who has been bullied out of /tg/ hobbies?
If women are bullied out /tg/ hobbies then surely there must be someone who has witnessed it.

>>51507337

And those people have a responsibility to know that about themselves and strive to be better. Again, therapy exists for a reason.

>>51507879

Except I've said in this thread and in many others examples of it, said I've seen it, said it's happened to me (I didn't leave hobby entirely just don't go to stores/that store etc) and people say I'm wrong or 'fuck off normie' etc. I mean in this exact thread there's a guy saying he doesn't want women to play. There are a dozen others saying girls just "Don't like games" anyway.

>>51507635
>people of a different race or gender than me playing games I play is equivalent to rape

LITERALLY SJW

>>51507537
Clearly you don't either.
What you're criticizing him for is closer to misusing metaphor.
Analogy is more like ratio with words Stem:Flower is analogous to Trunk:Leaves but they aren't the same thing but have enough similarities in the ideas conveyed that the analogy can be made.
What you're saying is because you're too retarded to find the connection it's the analogy itself that is flawed and not just your reading comprehension.

Gentrification(Poors losing their neighborhood to more well off folk displacing them):(Nerds losing their nerd spaces to normalfag social protocols) is a perfectly apt analogy. You're just too triggered and high on ideology to accept it.

>>51501942
Bring your cards, who fucking cares? I'll kick your ass, girl or not, I just wanna play a game.

>>51507938
The analogy makes sense but is incredibly biased because it implies normies playing mtg somehow prevents """"nerds"""""" from playing

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>>51507869
Try "I'm sick and tired of having to tiptoe around shit in my daily life; now I'm threatened with the prospect of having to do the same shit while *actively indulging in my powerlevel*". You don't have to be a failed normalfag screeching about NORMIES REE to be able to see where the road leads and happen not to like it.

>>51507935
It's a metaphor.

>>51507883
>And those people have a responsibility to know that about themselves and strive to be better.
if people are obligated to strive to be better, how about you practice what you preach? get off /tg/, it's bad for you, and stop playing children's card games, they offer no benefit

>>51502470
Op, i taught an old gf his game and women have the problem that when they actually do get competitive, they take it personally. Every time you beat them its an issue, and she tailor makes her deck to dismantle yours and then shes using her attraction to flirt with the shop owner and then shes just "making friends". Its a disaster. Just dont do it. Its different if you meet a girl at those events. Then you dont have to watch her turn into an attention pandering slut at your local shop.

>>51507938
>What you're saying is because you're too retarded to find the connection it's the analogy itself that is flawed and not just your reading comprehension.
no, i'm saying the analogy is so shittily constructed by the author (even though its one of the most braindead easy analogies to make ever) that it may as well not exist

>>51508031

Bad for me is different from bad for others. It's one thing to eat fast food, it's another to chew with your mouth open in public

>>51508002

"I suck at interacting so I want to go to a place with lower standards where everyone can be equally embarrassed by their comrades"

It doesn't matter dude nobody minds if you're awkward or say weird shit a little just don't be a dick, don't be literally disgusting, don't loudly curse and complain etc

>>51508128
>Bad for me is different from bad for others.
there are objectively bad behaviors from a social, physical, and psychological standpoint, so no
don't be throwing stones from a glass house, you lazy hypocritical fuck

>>51507094
>bantz and name calling is bad
wew

>>51508157
>I dislike having to skirt the groupthink and polite fictions of mainstream society → I suck at interacting
Non sequitur. Wrong. Horse apples. Motherfucking sophist bullshit. You hold less validity as a human person for having made such a ridiculous assertion.

>police yourself in case someone you couldn't possibly give less of a fuck about if you tried your absolute hardest might take offense to behavior which has been acceptable for years upon years before they'd even heard of the hobby
Some of us enjoy a lively and honest atmosphere and don't find rituals of reciprocal onanism particularly appealing, thank you very much.

>>51508002
What exactly do you have to "tiptoe" around in your daily life that would make your mtg experience so unbearable?

All im angling for is to include anyone who wants to play the game. I dont care if they are oldfags, newfags, men, women, whatever... When you sit your ass at the table and shuffle your deck then you are just a player playing the game.

How does building the mtg communiry directly make it a shittier place to be?

>>51508349
Not the guy you are talking to but I think it would benefit the argument if you more clearly defined the polite fictions and rituals of reciprocal onanism that you dislike.

>>51508421
>>51508488

Makes me laugh when the autistic shitlords get called out on their bullshit and have no defense.

You know, I think the representation of "nerds" in mtg is overstated. I have played at 4-5 lgs in my state and for the most part, the majority of people have been well-adjusted functioning members of society. Mtg was just another hobby to them. Obviously there are some weirdos or outliers but there are people like that in every activity. I don't think the ratio of weirdos in mtg is really that different from the actual ratio in life. Maybe it's just a vocal minority that has a bad experience with some people and then goes on to say "all mtg players are greasy, fat neckbeards with no social skills". But I honestly think that's not true, and it's really just the ideas thrown around in this thread that make it seem true. Obviously if you are actively looking for something to call out in the mtg playerbase you are going to find it and that is going to be your focus, not the rest of the people that are actually normal.

>>51507869

People about to be forcibly removed from their hobby are not under any obligation to simply surrender unconditionally without mounting a resistance.

>>51508157

>nobody minds your behavior, they just demand you stop doing your behavior

wat

>>51509415
They arent being removed. Nobody is being asked to surrender their hobby.

New people are just joining them to share in your love for mtg.

Why is changebso scary? Nobody is suggesting that grognards being forced out. Why is accepting new members into the hobby so hard?

>>51509440

Nobody minds the little things but if you're so bad people are complaining that's on you, sorry. This isn't normies going into nerd culture to ruin it, it's people who are just as nerdy and into games as the neckbeards but are also somewhat attractive and polite. Why do we kick out people who know how to behave so that the people who don't can relax? Glad my area has a less-spergy flgs as well as a magic player quarantine zone.

Don't get me wrong both stores run fnm but you know what the fuck I mean if you've ever been to a decent store and a shit one.

>>51509545

Right? These guys are furious that "new" (different) people are showing up and complain that they shouldn't, but those people aren't doing anything to force players out or change behaviors. They're just diluting the pool of shitty people with a few better ones.

These guys are the gatekeepers trying to kick people out for being different, all while claiming some sort of divine right or that 'you people' segregated them into this clique, like a flgs is the nerd table in high school and anyone with a nice haircut or a vagina is a preppy kid coming over just to troll.

>>51509545
>They arent being removed. Nobody is being asked to surrender their hobby.

You are either a liar or deeply stupid. There is no option C.

>>51509562
It's not about whether you're nerdy and into games or not, it's not a case of nerd credentials or what-have-you, it's about accepting that not every space is going to be accomodating to you. If people want to play the game in a dank, stinking pit, I'm not going to climb down in there and demand that they clean up their act so I can play with them - I'll just go and find somewhere else to play.

>>51509562
>Why do we kick out people who know how to behave so that the people who don't can relax?

Who is 'we'?

>>51509673
It's sad that you believe hygiene and basic human interaction is "accommodation"

I'm going to give a conjectural response based on my experience.

Males at the various LGSs in the area all fall on a spectrum of normal functioning adults to manbabies who only get outside for FNM. The people on the latter end are socially awkward enough to be uncomfortable at best around females, usually trying some shitty flirting. The females that have had an issue with the LGSs around me generally seem to take offense to this attempt at flirting. "I'm a gamer and here to game not to get hit on by nerds" type shtick that frankly is completely deaf to the pervasive culture in MTG.

Some of the females that have toughed it out and understood that they make get creepy passes during matches and that showing up, being friendly but not in a manner that could be mistaken for flirting, and not demonstrating the need for accomodations or reinforcing the stereotype that women can't be as good of nerds as guys has allowed them to indoctrinate.

Is that sexist? I don't know. I can see the argument from both sides. But it's pretty foundational in the culture of MTG and top down change won't happen because Jews of the Coast won't dear look the gifted horse in the mouth. So if you want bottom up change you gotta kowtow to the norms and if you think the LGS is worth it blemishes and all then stick with it. There's no Shangri La for game stores that is devoid of stereotypes and is inhabited by normies.

I don't agree with the premise that there is this large, insinuated majority, group of neckbeards trying to defend their sacred rite from the female scourge. I think it's more that telling someone that their hentai alters are sexist or that someone hitting on you is sexist or that calling a card gay is homophobic creates an atmosphere that they have to deal with the outside PC culture in their safe space.

>>51509772

Obviously the solution is to make their existence even more sad by turning what refuge they have into a plastic disney theme park version of itself where they are unwelcome.

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>>51501942
I'll think about that question every day and still don't have a answer to it. Maybe the chairs are too uncomfortable for these princesses?

>>51509817
Terribly sorry for spellcheck taking the wheel in some instances with this post. Hopefully it's decipherable enough.

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I can say that there are skeezy game stores. But then again, there are also skeezy bars. I personally have only had problems with this kind of thing at a single moderately sized store, but never had problems with it anywhere else.

There isn't really a "MTG" culture though. The stores themselves have different feels, regardless of the games they have. So just go around to different stores till you find one that you like (preferably ones with good food, food is delicious).

>>51509658
Why am i a liar or stupid? Why is there no compromise allowed here?

Please elaborate.

>>51509673
Eh, I'm grown up enough to recognise that other people who don't meet my standards still might want to socialise, and there's absolutely nothing forcing me to run into spaces they use and shout "I'M OFFENDED!" at the top of my lungs.

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>Because of this we dropped MTG and moved onto playing warmahordes and the people there are super chill and easy to get along with, but It's kind of shitty that we can't get out to play EDH anymore together...

It's interesting that you seem to have had a very similar experience my own. I'm actually in the process of paring down my MTG collection and painting my first army with the extra cash (go chaos birds!). The men that play at the local shop have show patience with me in learning the game and have even allowed me to join their league. Meanwhile, the magic crowd at a second, nearby shop, has been increasingly hostile/cringe worthy despite that fact that I have/had played their for the last five years or so.

I'm betting it has at least somewhat with the maturity of the particular audience of the game. Magic definitely attracts young adults to men in their early to late twenties, while war gaming (at least around where I am at) has a median age closer to 45-50. Even if you're playing a younger guy, the community expectations have nevertheless shaped their behavior. And honestly, I can't think of too many other games that have generated dinner invitations for me after a league game.

>>51506635
>women are an evil hivemind that want to destroy my safe space meme

>>>/r9k/

Shoo.

>>51507587
>look at d&d advertisement
>using ads as an argument
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Holy shit this fucking guy

I mean I don't disagree with your post, but basing it on who the ad men choose to be in a picture? Come on, you really think every D&D group consists of two white men, one black woman, a crippled asian kid and a muslim just because the picture showed it to you?

>>51510807
>but basing it on who the ad men choose to be in a picture?
I kind of wish I had saved that picture of the Games Workshop merchandise stand with the side image that suggests Warhammer's new primary audience is little black boys and little white girls. That's obviously the biggest demographic in gaming right now, right?

>>51510807
Im not saying every group needs to be diverse.

What i was getting at is that times are changing and as formerly neckbeard-only /tg/ activities enter the mainstream, oldfags in the hobby need the prepare for an adjustment period as newfags join them. The people who are resisting this change because they want their eternal status quo ... Well thats just an unrealistic expectation of a social game that has shifted its marketing strategy as time drags on in order to increase the scope of their target demographic.

>>51509688

This guy is 'we'
>>51509673


Nobody is asking anyone to leave or make huge changes just don't be completely horrible. Like, I'm sorry that it makes your life worse to...interact with people who are made uncomfortable by you?
>>51509822
Like seriously what do you even mean? What happened? Did someone ask you not to curse in the fucking toy store? If you want a filthy cesspit to game in go ahead and open one, but those places are quickly closing as "average humans" start feeling safer hanging out in game store and business owners cater to "customers" instead of crazy hobos. I guess that sucks for the hobos or whatever but this thread has really shown me it's not that big of a deal and girls and so called normies are going to be gaming more and more as the years go on. Sounds great to me. Glad to know any future daughter I have will be able to attend an event at her flgs and not be forced to sit across from some anime porn playmat and sleeves.

>>51501942
It was never a No-Girls club. It's just always been a club with few girls, because on the whole it seems to be less appealing to them. It's somewhat reinforcing because girls don't want to be the only girl for some reason. If you did a count on the number of game stores with 0 regular female MtG players and those with 2 or more you'd probably find that both are vastly higher than those with just 1.

If you're a girl and you don't like that there aren't more girls playing MtG and that's why you don't participate then be the change you want and participate anyway. You may end up being the person that gets someone else to join you.

Or just stay home and shlick to Gideon porn. IDGAF.

>>51501942
The Wednesday magic at my local game shop is mostly women. Don't know about the Friday game. I'm there for D&D

>>51511491

>nobody is being asked to leave, but I look forward to the day when my children won't have to see you here, you filthy degenerate

>>51511491
>Glad to know any future daughter I have will be able to attend an event at her flgs and not be forced to sit across from some anime porn playmat and sleeves.

please define "porn" because it sounds like you subscribe to an unhealthy and puritan attitude to sex

ah yes, it is fine to play at war and slaughter but the breast is haram

>>51512207
The future of mtg, succinctly summarized.

Prepare your anuses you degenerate geognards.

>>51512549

Well of course this story could only have one ending. It's a social struggle and the sides are "grogs who struggle to even function in social situations, never mind turn them to their advantage" vs "normal human being", with normal human beings having a vast numerical advantage besides.

The grogs don't really have any sort of hope. The only way they could possibly hold their own here is if the corporations involved took thier side, but the normies have more money too, so thats a non starter.

>>51512549
The future of MTG is an empty fucking store.

The only reason why FNM fires at all is BECAUSE the die hard grognards are keeping it together. Because nobody new is walking into that store and it's not only because of shit people - the environment is so goddamn expensive nobody in their right mind is going to stick around.

Kitchen table will continue as is.

The only way to save the FNM community is to utterly slay it to the point where all the people who played during Worldwake don't come back. The people who have an encyclopedia knowledge of everything, myself included, just need to roll over and die because we carry too much memories of all of Wizards' past fuck up and we can't help ourselves but remind new players that things used to be better and all the new stuff is shit.

Nobody gives a fuck if Jace and Stoneforge were banned a long time ago. But people just keep bringing it up. Just like Lotus - that fucking card just shouldn't even be mentioned to new players but everyone just needs to talk about it. And it's that sort of talk that ruins a community and divides people along lines drawn by experience.

And the thing is, that experience is valuable but it's not profitable for Wizards. But as is, that experience is the only thing that is keeping a store community going and also scaring away new blood. That being the case, the community is only going to die.

>this thread
Holy Fucking NERDS

>>51502474
>The game is as expensive as you want it to be.
his is the biggest lie ever said in magic. The game is epensive because suddenly one of the people that you play with buy a leyline of santity and autowins every match unless you buy some cards to counter him. Then your other friend brings something, which forces you to get something else and everything cascades over and over again. I guess that it's not expensive if you don't mind losing every match.

>>51512866
The cascading effect wouldn't be so significant if people understood that some decks lose to others, that way they don't have to overhaul their deck to try and beat a deck they have 20/80 odds of beating to begin with.

But like you said, the problem is that people are always thinking that you just need better cards to beat the other guy when all you need is just a better understanding. It's why ignorance sells so many cards. If people started out with an aggro and control deck and used those to start with against other aggro and control decks, they will see the importance of matchups.

Those intro or even duel decks aren't like that. They're just piles of midrange cards that do wacky shit but don't teach their target audience anything about any matchup.

>>51503886
Hey we can't all play jund man.

>>51512764
>we carry too much memories of all of Wizards' past fuck up and we can't help ourselves but remind new players that things used to be better and all the new stuff is shit.
The only real issue is that you old people know too much cards and decks + you have finely tuned shit. Playing Magic as a new player is a mix of being stomped around like in a fighting game but also with the hilarious knowledge that unlike in a fighting game where you get good at it and will eventually be at the same level as your opponent by playing you wouldn't and couldn't do shit about it anyways because the nigger is running elixir + eldrazi fucks and you have a shitty delver deck without snapcasters.
And that's just creatures. Mana lands is a big ass issue. They shouldn't be this costly, ever. When even the basic resources required to play a deck cost a shitload of cash you know that something is fucked up, and don't talk about basic lands because we all know the difference between running a fetch and a basic swamp.

>>51512953
>But like you said, the problem is that people are always thinking that you just need better cards to beat the other guy when all you need is just a better understanding.
Oh, what the fuck ever. Magic has cards that are objectively superior to others that do similar things and cost way more. doubling season vs parallel lives is just one example of that.

>>51512752
The grogs need to git good at social situations to stay relevant then.

If they are smart enough to play a complicated game like mtg, then they can adapt and learn how to apporpriately behave in new social situations. especially whwn more well adjusted grogs start wanting to get their kids involved in sharing in their hobby.

Its a big change thats coming down the pipeline even as we speak. 2nd gen magic players are already learning the basics from their parents.

Its not going to be easy but since when is life ever easy ... Or fair, for that matter?

>>51513048
Did you read the sentence that followed that? I'm talking about deck archetypes and you're fucking talking about strictly better cards.

I'm not talking about some player getting wrecked by Lightning Bolt when they're playing Searing Spear. The example was regarding things like Leyline shutting people out.

>>51501942
I just played a game of EDH at my lgs last Friday with a couple and my friend. She was running Kraum + Vial Smasher, shit was fun

>>51506028
Ironic then that bridge is a very social game when women are fans of socialisation.

>>51513151
>Did you read the sentence that followed that? I'm talking about deck archetypes and you're fucking talking about strictly better cards.
Deck archetypes are irrelevant. Don't say "you don't have to pay more to do better!" when you literally have to pay more to do better.

>>51513202
What the fuck are YOU talking about. Deck archetypes are always goddamn relevant.

I was saying that if players understood that they'd realize their deck just gets wrecked sometimes while wrecking others. And the sooner they understand that they won't spend hundreds of dollars buying new shit over and over again trying to beat an archetype their deck is weak against.

I'm not saying you don't have to spend money to win. I'm saying that if new players are taught to fucking lose they won't have to waste as much money as they do - as we all did.

>>51506751
>Women love games, they just hate putting up with retarded assholes
Are you telling me that men don't mind putting up with retarded assholes?

I played one of those girl creatures last week at FNM. She was pleasant to look upon, smelled great, funny and a good player. Since she told me she secretly identified as an unwashed neckbeard, I was okay with that.

>>51513642
>She secretly identified as an unwashed neckbeard
That's a great line.

>>51512207
Is it bad that this made me laugh a lot? I think that I just realised how much i actually dislike the autistic degenerate grognards.

Honestly as bad as it may sound, I wouldnt miss them a whole lot because i feel they just shit things up.

>>51505344
This 100%.
For the longest time the only lgs close to me was absolutely dominated by stereotypical neckbeards. I swear to god when I first looked around there these guys were playing and suddenly one of them just lets a huge fucking fart rip and they all laugh like fucking asthmatics, it's disgusting. They were all obese too.

But then 6 months ago a new lgs opened up and I went to check it out when C16 came out and the store was big, clean and well ordened. The owner was just a thin groomed guy who welcomed me with an incredibly genuine smile and we just started talking about C16 and how Atraxa was already at 50 fucking bucks.
Hell, we even played a game of EDH with some other dudes, was loads of fun.

Now I draft there every tuesday and show up to fnm and commander night too.

And I swear to god, all the decent people had the same thought process I had, because everyone there is nice as hell and hygienic.

>>51507475
>My girlfriend is attractive

Prove it, or fuck off. Attractiveness is subjective and you may have a BBW fetish but the rest of us do not.

>>51513195
You are literally not allowed to speak with one another during the game.

>>51505886
I hope you get hit by a car. I'll never even have kids by the way but you reek of entitled NEET.

>>51507553
tumblr

>>51507883
Its a two way street anon. Arguably not being empathetic towards the autismo and realize he's already trying to be as sociable as possible and helping them adjust is just as bad as the autismo not realizing he needs to do better and maybe get therapy.

>>51514571
Its hard to be empathic with them when they are condescending.

Last time one of them was shitting on mydeck because i wasnt netdecking but rather trying to do something original. His swarm of followers were just laughing along as he shit on me for not just copying a tier1 deck.

I have no patience for taking unsolicited advice from lord beta, king of the gammas when i am just playing a casual game and trying to be creative.

>>51514845
Never said it was easy, just said being empathetic was the right thing to do.

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>>51501942
>RBWGU instead of WUBRG

YES THIS IS STILL BOYS ONLY. GIT OUT ROASTIE SCUM. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

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What would you guys think if Wizards were to do what happened to Mahjong in Japan where they started a "Queen's Cup" thing where only women were allowed in. I believe it's televised and it was purly to raise interest since mahjong was also seen as a "boys club" thing.

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>>51501942

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>>51515764

>>51514123
Not an argument.

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>>51506881
Fuck, now that you mention it, I can't help but be triggered.

>>51501942
>bait thread
>250+ replies

Good

I have never met a girl who actually just enjoyed the game because the game. There was always some ulterior motive.

>>51508488
Not him, but basically the difference between reddit and 4chan in terms of community.

>>51501942
GO HOME (COLLECTABLE CARD) GAMER GIRL

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>>51501964
>>51503097
>>51516195
>>51516641

>>51501942
I dunno... I guess it depends on where you play and your local community?

I got into MtG years ago--circa 1996 or so--and back in those days, a local comic shop was the only place in my town that sold cards. Hence, everyone congregated there and the community was about 30 or so people strong.

Of those, 8 were women/girls. Some were drawn to it because they bought comics and Magic was always around the comic shop. A couple had boyfriends that were into Magic and they picked it up. It was a comfy little community: there was no discrimination to speak of, fun all around.

Funny enough, one of those women ended up being my boss a few years later: I came in for the interview, and she was like, "Hey! I remember you! The Rukh egg deck, right?"

>>51517945
Yeah things sued to be way better. I stopped playing around the invasion block and when i came back to lorwyn the culture around MTG had completely changed.