Pathfinder General /pfg/

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And the old thread: >>51482782

Not a witchhunt, merely friendly memery.

How would you rate DHB's characters out of 10, which do you think is the best? The worst? We have:
>NTRDwarf
>NToRacle
>Old Spy
>Punch Fattery
>Gun Monkey
>Moon Hopper

Which has the most meme potential? Punch Fatty top tier in my opinion, NToRacle bottom tier.

Would your character sell their soul to a Fey to get their spouse's memories back?

Serious question right here, I'm confused >>51486590

>>51486619
I've never read any of them because jesus christ

>>51486594
So just want to ask.
Why is it that Pathfinder General always seems to come as close as possible to the red porn line?
Why?
Every time?
If not, outright crossing?
(and where are the images coming from, I'm a degenerate)

>>51486621
Never make a deal with the fey. NEVER MAKE A DEAL WITH THE FEY.

How bad is Con 12 for someone who switches between bows and two-handed swords/polearms? Can it be compwnsated with higher dext?

>>51486619
NToRacle is kind of creepy but seemed unintentionally so.
The hobgoblin is pretty cool, but the "HE'S SO COOL JUST LIKE JAMES BOND" defense his fans threw up was the millstone that killed it.
Punch fatty was pretty funny, as was gun monkey.
Moon hopper and NTR Dwarf are bottom tier.

>>51486647
what's your AC and what do you spend most of your time fighting

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Do you include dismemberment rules in your games?

>>51486576
>but without the side effects of PoW I hated

Which side effects?

>>51486661
>moon hopper
>bottom tier
shit taste desu

>>51486647
>how bad is 12 con

You have a bonus, so its not bad. Could it be better? yes.

Since you are using 2-handed swords and polearms, i'm going to assume you attempt heavy damage or tripping. Which means you are fine depending on your class.

>can it be compensated with higher dex

Maybe. Dex means better AC. Better AC means taking less hits. In the long run, yes. On a fight to fight basis? maybe.

>>51486621
No, but he'd probably try to force said fey to give it back, and likely (gladly) die in the attempt.

>>51486668
People can lose limbs.

Our gunslinger lost an arm while our cavalier/medic is missing a leg. They both got clockwork prosthetic limbs courtesy of their employer.

>>51486673
Okay, what makes moon hopper good? The idea of "dude from the moon" sounds fine, but that backstory seemed weak to me.

>>51486667

Im in the planning phasr. Medium / light armour. 16/17 dext

>>51486693
Go medium if you can. If you're that worried about being flimsy, stack on as much AC as you possibly can.

>>51486691
I like the whole "stuck between conflicting interests and forming a third option" thing it had going. Stuck between the street gang and his assassination school, and ended up taking a bit from both and running away with it.

Also the idea that the symbiote is demon goo is cool.

Also I like the naming convention for the symbiotes. Toad, Weevil, and Leech.

>Closing applications to a game soon
>Still not sure who to pick for the party
Mostly casters and ninja/monk type characters, no real beefy martial to round them out. I'm surprised, given that I allowed PoW with no restrictions.

>>51486721
What game?

>>51486718
I didn't like the first of those, but the rest I'll give you. It was a cool idea, if not one I liked in its execution.

>>51486636
Because the alternative to animes/kitsunes are the deusvults and paladinfags and no one except them wants that.

>>51486740
Here, you can check out the applications:
https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/4458904/applications

First game to be run in a setting I'm working on. The setting still needs a lot of work, but the country they'll be playing in is the most fleshed out nation so it's not going to be one of those games that's really the party doing worldbuilding for me, but it's definitely not going to be a super long game either.

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>>51486691
>>51486718
I think the moon thing isn't so wild, considering some of the other characters. I'll freely admit that I went off the wall with Neboa, but it was damn fun writing that whole thing and visualizing it.

He has an interesting dynamic going on, I just feel like it's one of those heavy backstories that will run the game if the GM tries to cater too much for it. I'm sure spider queen has enough experience to stop that from happening though, so why not?

And it's a classic type of Vigilante(Venom/Spiderman/Prototype stuff) and that's almost refreshing when most people ignore the flavor of Vigilante.

>>51486776
Is the time you have for sure?

>>51486803
Yeah, sadly, I am a college student (pre-law) so my schedule is very strict lately.

How much char should have the face of the party? How much should be invested in dipl, intimidate, bluff?

SoM looks good

>>51486619
>people say DHB has no sense of humor
>gun wielding monkey
>giant punching naked fat guy

>>51486779
>I'm sure spider queen has enough experience
>allowed Blood Money

>>51486875
What's Spider Queen's game again?

>>51486904
The one DHB made a guy from the moon for.

>>51486865
It's looking really good, scoundrel/open hand striker for life!

>>51486636
Because someone(s?) has a giantic folder of these things and keeps dropping the new thread when the old one's nowhere close to dead.

So Avowed is what I want to ask my DM about if I want to port my Warlock over when my group switches from 5e, right?

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Reminder that if you want SoM to have nice things for martials at high levels, leave a note on the SoM 3 doc saying so.

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>>51486875
You don't get to 3000 roll20 hours without seeing a few things, anon.

Blood Money... It has problems but I can see how someone would have made it this far without seeing it in a game. I do think it's a shame, considering. It would be an awesomely flavorful spell for Neboa, but unbalanced spells are unbalanced spells.

This is an aside, but a lot of people ignore False Focus and how it could be applied in similar ways to Blood Money. I think that feat should go if Blood Money's going, but that's just me.

>>51486971
This. It is your patriotic duty as /pfg/ to ensure that SoM realises its full potential.

>>51486971
Nice things like Hercules? I thought they were doing that with legendary talents.

>>51486912
Link?

>>51486971
What if I don't want martials to have nice things?

they should have great and powerful things

>>51486976
but you can just do all the flavor stuff anyway

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So creeping back into the degeneracy we go I see. Anyone want an update on that Onryou+Elsbeth thing?

Well too bad here you go anyway.

>>51486971
Shoo shoo
SoM is not meant to be PoW
And good for it

>>51487075
Nice

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>>51487075
You oughta be canonized, dude.

>>51487095
I don't understand how "martials having nice things" means automatically PoW. Part of the problem with PoW is that it doesn't give martials nice things outside of combat!

>>51487196
SoM is already bursting with nice things for martials
You got whole nother agenda

>>51487223
>SoM is already bursting with nice things for martials

And how many of them keep up past level 10?

>>51487223
Why don't we talk about our fave things from SoM? I'm loving the scoundrel sphere and counter theft, it feels so stylish to steal someone's weapon while they're attacking you.

>>51487249
How does stuff like impaling and evasion drop off after 10th level? I'm not really sure what your problem is with it.

>>51487252
Don't forget the talent to steal the pants off people.

>>51487275
>SoM needs more nice things out of combat
>"here's some things they can do in combat!"

Try again.

>>51487283
The post I just quoted talked about dropping off, not out of combat stuff.

And what about distracting shot to stealth, verbal counter for speaking, steal charm for speaking, and tons of other stuff like that? Are we just ignoring the new content that was made specifically to address these concerns?

I am soon going to play Pathfinder for the first time. Used to ADD, 3.5, 5e.
Here is the wizard, and here is the arcanist. The latter seems fucking more OP than the former, because it looks like a well done mix between what is good in the wizard and what is good in the sorcerer.
What do you think about that /pfg/?

>>51487310
I'm still failing to see how that stuff is supposed to keep up with a level 10 or 15 spherecaster.

>>51487312
Also take note of the Potent Magic and Quick Study exploits.

>>51487333
That's not what's supposed to, legendary talents are, Jolly's been saying that constantly.

>>51487333
Because its not, the system is inherently unbalanced in favor of any sort of magic, and any other form of action is inherently lesser post level 6.

Is that the answer you want? The solution is to simply play something else that doesn't wank off to magic quite so hard.

>>51487312
Just play an Exploiter Wizard so you can do all the cool shit of both classes.

>>51487347
What's the point of even having a level scale on classes, if level 10 X and level 10 Y can't mean the same thing?

So as a Symbiotic Slayer using Signature Talent for Released Symbiote gives you, at level 20, +6 to your level to determine its powers and how your Symbiote powers work.

Then if your also have Signature Talent Symbiotic Empowerment, Armored Symbiote, and Bestial Symbiote.

This gives:
>+8 Strength
>+7 Natural Armor
>+12 Armor Bonus
>+6 bonus attack and damage for natural attacks

Pretty good!

>>51487351
Have you looked at Mutants & Masterminds and stuff like that, though? It's not like it's impossible to make impressive non-Vancian things in the bounds of d20, there's just this weird following of people who had D&D 3.x as their first RPG and internalized its weirdness so hard that they refuse to accept any other balance between classes.

It's why the old-school 2e grognards invented OSR, which harkens back to the older balance between classes where wizards were genuinely fragile and easy to interrupt and fighters had few abilities but were walking tanks.

>>51487396
>level 20

>>51487372
The spheres of might kickstarter video never said the following:

>SoM talents/classes = SoP talents/classes
>Out of combat versatility through spheres
>SoM talents/classes=casters at all

Hell, Jolly's been doing a LOT to give us some utility stuff despite that never being a stated design goal, so if you want a system that makes magic=martial, this isn't it. This never said it would be, it never made that promise. PoW didn't do it either, but at least SoM lets me do fun things in combat rather than just "Big numbers".

>>51487396
Getting the uncomfortable feeling that not only will the game have like 5 symbiote applicants, they'll all be doing the same thing I'm thinking of doing.

>>51487424
/tg/ should really stop holding up SoM as some panacea that will fix all of PoW's mistakes.

>>51487441
Hey, you can play that one miniseries with all the Venom babies!

>>51487361
But I love the sorcerer-like versatility of the arcanist. This is a little like the Beholder Mage. Learning spells like a wizard, calling them like a sorcerer.

>>51487344
Thank you!

What do you think of the White Mage Arcanist archetype?

>>51487488
>What do you think of the White Mage Arcanist archetype?

Don't use it. Healing in combat is for suckers, and for healing out of combat you can just get a bunch of wands of cure light wounds.

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Is Hell Comes to Westcrown ever going to become available?

>>51487514
So do you advise me to go pure arcanist?

>>51487477
This is not about fixing pow
This purely style issue
Som presents completely different style compared to pow

>>51487406
oh, i'm not saying its impossible. I'm saying its impossible for 3./pf. Changing the massive amount of things that it would take to bring that balance between the two would basically mean creating another system entirely, and look where that actually got paizo. They fixed nothing and actually broke more shit.

First, there's the disparity in sheer volume of effects. For every one thing a martial can do, a caster can likely do 10. more if they are creative.

Then, there's the volume of rolls. martials make several more rolls on average than casters do per round, which leads to a sheer loss in effectiveness in comparison.

Then, there's range. The further the range for a martial, the worse the damage output, in general. where-as a caster at level 6 will literally never need to worry about it as their spells do the same thing at point blank range or a mile away.

Next is DR and energy resistance. Like i stated previously, martials make more rolls. More rolls means more resisted damage per hit. On top of this, you are extremely limited in your damage types. The caster can simply choose to use a different spell and cast it.

Next is the disparity in action economy. Martials need things like pounce to make full use of their action economy, but casters only need a standard action to be equally effective.

The only things that do not go solely to casters are sheer damage output (which doesn't matter because save or dies and CC), and the rare time when antimagic actually hinders you.

The entire system is built around the superiority of mages and the inferiority of martials. To actually rework the system would mean to make a new system entirely. While i agree that systems like Mutants and Masterminds have the right of it, 3./pf is too far down the rabbit hole.

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>>51487057
Oh, don't worry. I will.

That's called Roleplaying though, not flavorful mechanics.

>>51487540
Magaambyan Initiate is pretty rad if you're willing to lose a bunch of talents. You get to pick extra spells off the druid and cleric lists, and it stacks with the Magaambyan Arcanist prestige class for even more pulling random spells out of your hat.

>>51487571
The variety of effects thing, I'll grant you that, but the rest just needs somebody willing to give fiat effects like "your range increments increase to 1 mile" or "all attacks you make treat DR and hardness as if they were with an adamantine weapon" or "multiply all your skill check results by 5".

>>51487646
That doesn't change the amount of rolls, for one. For every extra roll a martial makes, thats a chance to lose efficiency over the mages single damage roll if he throws a fireball, as an example.

For two, you may as well not have DR at that point.

And i don't see how skill check results even matter.

All these fixes are nice bandaids, but they don't fix the inherent disparity between the sheer amount of steps needed to actually be effective.

Mages can generally move better, regularly and with magic, since they only need a standard action to be fully effective. Martials either need to stand still, 5 foot step, or pounce to do their full range of damage. Mages will also do more things on average simply based on range and number of targets a single spell can hit.

There's so much simple quality of life shit they have over melee that its absurd. To trip, you need to make a roll to touch, an opposed roll, and hope to god that thing isn't stronger than you. God help you for grapple. For mages? cast one mass CC spell and you did the same thing over an entire group for 1 standard action, not to even mention simply altering the battlefield itself.

This also gave rise to the mass immunity issue the system has, and this hurts martials even more than casters because, once again, casters can simply find another way, where-as that rogue's sneak just ain't gonna work.

The entire system built itself around the power of mages, and changing it would take making a new system.

Is that assassin game going to have something in place to prevent the party from fucking each other over? It's a classic failing of evil games. Way of the Wicked for example, has that contract with Asmodeus that you all sign.

How much charisma do you need to be effective or good at diplomacy and other skills?

>>51487075

Yeeeeeees

>>51487818
0 or less

move it over to Int

>>51487827

Ok then, how much int do you need for being good at diplomacy?

>>51487818
none if you wanna use int or wis to diplo with traits

>>51486594
>Spheres of Might preview

I'm actually kind of impressed with how garbage this is compared to Spheres of Power.

Half the talents are just "combat feat + scaling", focus and dedication both feel like arbitrary restrictions (and I don't remember spherecasters having to deal with anything like that), and way too many options are incredibly narrow.

>Animate Object
>"A ship under the control of a pilot cannot be animated with this spell without the pilot's consent."

Fucking why? For that matter, why can't I animate objects that are on people?

Why does consent or location matter when I'm taking control of the boat?

>>51487867
because you might be able to have fun

>>51487862
Then why not try to catch Jolly when they are around and give your feedback? I'm sure they'd appreciate a more scrutinizing viewpoint given the overflow of positivity I've seen thus far. It's good to compare contrasting views of things to get a good idea for a flexible middle ground.

Yesterday, in my Strange Aeons campaign, happened this:
-Party put to rest the soul of a 5 years old kid that was devoured by ghouls.
-Meet a new party member who is an oracle that is rotting alive.
-Killed a kleptomaniac and a traumatized teacher who had reality dissociation
-Party's cleric was kidnapped by a nightgaunt.

>>51487836
Enough to back up any outlandish bluffs or claims you make.

Generally speaking, +10 to the check in total is a good baseline. You will succeed more often than not.

Depending on level of course. So if you are level 3, put 3 in whatever diplo skills you think you need, and have approximately +3 to whatever stat you use for it, you should do fine, more often than not. with the added class skill bonus, that'd be around +9 i think, and only at level 3. As you get higher, it will get easier.

>>51487895
Well, there goes my dreams of taking control of a boat by animating it then animating all of the sailor's trousers, laughing as their own pants try to murder them.

>>51487914
Sure, I guess? I mean, pretty much every criticism would be either (a) just replicates a feat, and it's not like "needs more feats" was the thing holding martials back, or (b) does only one very specific thing, when "is good at doing the same thing all day every day" is already one of the biggest problems with martials, or (c) has a bunch of restrictions slapped on, when it would be fine to just let the guy do the cool thing he's already payed for without jumping through hoops, or (d) just doesn't do much at all until you've got like BAB 12 or some shit, at which point giving an enemy a whole -3 to attack rolls against your allies isn't really that impressive compared to whatever the real characters are up to at that level.

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>>51487821
>>51487105
>>51487098
Attempting to clothes. Line soon maybe

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>>51488078

I just wanna say, i love you man.

do the special armor qualities from magic armor and bracers of armor stack? Like if I have in a +3 glammered shadow breast plate and a +1 heavy fortification bracers of armor do I get shadow/glammered/heavy fortification or do the bracers shut off because my armor has a higher AC bonus and not give its special quality either?

>>51487634
Yeah! But the PrC Magaambyan Arcanist is also focused if giving spintaneous spells to preaparing-spells-arcane spellcasters, and an arcanist do not really need that. In character, getting hard to go into a PrC to just get a few levels seems not credible to me...

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>>51488017
I can understand where you're coming from; we are doing plenty of 'feat subs', although what we're attempting to do with them is remove massive prereqs. There are talents which we're looking to expand as well, there'll probably be some combination of talents as well, but we're pre-alpha now and we're working things out. I mean just look how many comments on the preview doc I've been answering. I'm still trying to address concerns, and part of me wants to push for more talents, but it'll depend on the final product of talents. I do appreciate the feedback; I think one of the reasons it feels less versatile than SoP is because SoP was building off of nothing, while we're building off of the BAB system among others, giving us less overall freedom. We want this to be compatible with core (not balanced with core, just compatible), and that already puts us into some less than enviable situations. I believe others have said it above better about the inherent issues about how 3.5 hates martials, and we're not in an attempt to give the same level of versatility as SoP due to these restrictions.

We're doing our best without reinventing the wheel, which was far more feasible with SoP, but I appreciate the feedback regardless, as it's enough to tell us that we should be expanding the focus of our talents more (like with shield sled).

>>51480068

>I'm honestly kinda disappointed Rubio and Omza didn't end up getting in on the same party. Would have been fun to see the love triangle play out.


Well it looks like another triangle might be forming. Just based on dialogue, it seems we might have Essie-->Ozma-->Ameiko.

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>>51487758
We're working together on a job and we're not the biggest fish in the pond.

Working together always ends up being more successful, except in the situation where you have a major fuckup in which case you just abandon him.

It really takes care of itself, if you people think like a sociopath really would.

>>51488134
Ask your GM. By raw only the armour bonus does not stack and you should gain the full benefit of both, but ask your GM.

I had this idea of start a Shattered Star game but with some changes:
-The party will be affiliated to Lord Mayor Grobaras instead of the Pathfinder Society.
-There will be more than a single group of antagonistic NPCs adventurers extracted from the Rival Guide and ghe Villain Codex.
-There will be High Tech imported from Numeria
-The party will own Foxglove Manor as a HQ since the beginning.
-Third party material will be accepted.

>>51486621
No because the fey would probably have a long con to get back what you got from them in the trade.
Fey are assholes and have all the time they want to get what they want.

>>51488388

What is in Shattered Star that's worth running tbqhka?

>>51487488
If you want healing on an arcanist either go samarasan and use their alternate racial trait to grab what you want off witch, or just use infernal healing.

>>51488461
Is a dungeon crawl and treasure hunt which means more chances for downtime than other APs

>>51488186
>while we're building off of the BAB system among others, giving us less overall freedom

I'm not entirely sure how this tracks.

SoP has it's own version of caster level, how does working with BaB restrict you more than the new version of caster level created in SoP?

And if, for some reason, working off of BaB is somehow keeping you from writing powerful talents, why not just do what SoP did with caster level and create some kind of "martial level"?

It's not like the playtest is at all shy about making up a dozen new keywords.

>>51488186
>We want this to be compatible with core (not balanced with core, just compatible), and that already puts us into some less than enviable situations. I believe others have said it above better about the inherent issues about how 3.5 hates martials, and we're not in an attempt to give the same level of versatility as SoP due to these restrictions.

Why?

I mean, I guess it can come down to a fundamental difference in goals, and I'd really like to see the design documentation you're working off of, but from my perspective, if you're not aiming to do something very much different from the core rules and you're not aiming to dramatically improve the core rules then what are you doing and why should I care?

I can already buy books from Paizo that are full of ways to give my Brawler niggling bonuses to niche actions in specific circumstances.

So, pfg.

If you could regain psionic focus free every round with no actions or resources spent on your part, what would you build to best take advantage of this?

Because the new DSP psicrystal book may let you do exactly that

>>51488243
I don't deny that this is what would make sense (in addition, everyone in the group is supposed to be at least moderately professional), but PC betrayal is a consistent problem evil games have.

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What's a good way to mechanically represent social or societal stigma for a character or race?

In a game I hope to run soon, there's a chance some players will actually be immortal, without their knowledge. They'll know prior to finding this out that immortals as a race are universally despised.

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>>51488664
It's a consistent problem because of problem players, not problem PCs. Evil is practical where it needs to be.

I'd accept something like "What? I'm not gonna gather up 10,000 gold to get him resurrected." especially if they were a burden on the party before. But outright betrayal for no gain of your own is just a dumb move. Even betrayal for gain is something you should really consider, if what you get outweighs what you lose.

Chaotic Evil goblins manage to make tribes. CE bandits work together. It's just common sense to do so.

>>51488732

People who need "evil!!!111one game"s are bad players though, so that's what "evil game"s get

>>51488575
I gotta agree with this.
Martials may have a lot of feats, but "these feats do nothing" + actual power issues are their main points of failure.

While combining a few bad feats into talents to make them more worth grabbing is a start, without the ability to affect the narrative that other classes have, we're still stuck at square 1 and never left.

Every sphere; from Equipment to Sniping - not just some specific "leadership" sphere before anyone gets any ideas - needs to have some things that it offers that aid in the narrative.

"Disarm traps and magic traps + better detection" is a start. But also other things:

>Ability to enhance what one can talk people into (more "charm person" and less "you get an extra +1 to diplomacy in these clothes!")
Maybe you've 'trained' some special pheromones or learned some story about "your" trip in tibet that gets you laid near guaranteed.

>Ability to massively up-end transport by around level 11-12 at the latest
This is the point where the 'slinger's overcharged laser punches a wormhole to your new location (the without-error one later on is probably a safer choice) at the cost of being overdrawn and unable to recharge for a few hours (so normal ammo cap for half a day rather than infinite; obviously you made it a fucking robot, it's the only way any of that shit works anyways). Or perhaps your katana technique has gotten simply THAT emo and you cut dimensions to get there. IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW, IT MATTERS THAT YOU CAN.

>Prescience and high-end scouting
Perhaps things in the trap sphere, or maybe you've learned a special trick where if you punch yourself in the head JUST right, you've got like 75% accuracy on what shrooms the giant dragon in the cave you'll encounter tomorrow's on. Like an augury, put possibly leading to regulations about helmets in football.

>The ability to fucking create shit, and thus also lower the costs on the party.
No not mudane shit. You KNOW what I mean here.

>>51488783

>Want to cast spells
>Don't want to play a spellcaster

>>51488783
>New movement modes
It's far less costly to just dimension-door with your autocrossbow. Just gotta shoot the right rock to open up the jump point. Everyone knows that. What, guys, why are you looking at me like that. It worked didn't it?

See also; "battleaxe passwall", "shotgun passwall", "reach weapons give twice the burrow speed as daggers do because"...

>Summon/Create/Entice/Buy/Assemble/Jizz disposable minions with various abilities
Maybe the trap-guy has a little spider-bot, and maybe you've brought so many clubs for the club god that sometimes they gain sapience and can bash your allies to full health; particularly useful when you need to smash that asshole's face in so the poison doesn't do it first.

>Healing
Acid Bolts make great suturing needles. Didn't your mother ever teach you how? Come on, bite into this, we'll grow that arm back in no time.

Sure my descriptions likely suck - but the abilities themselves; the narrative control, THOSE need to exist. And the less "supernatural" you want them to be the more odd or downright "medical warcrime" they may look to get the job done. But those details are up to you. The narrative options though, the ability to affect the story or the flow of things, THAT is what the martials need the most.

>>51488813
STRANGE how
>Want to bash heads in
>Don't want to be a martial

Never seems to be an issue though. Because there's a spell for that too after all.

Besides, look at the shit that's fucking natural IN THIS SYSTEM AND ITS SETTINGS:

>Swimming through the fucking earth like a shark is not magic

>Item, armor and wall creation (example: Black Coral Secretion by Incutilis Lords)

>Moving things using incorporeal touch attacks. No really. (Herald of the Pirate Queen)

>Dragonship never getting lost and can always understand its course just by telling it where you wanna end up. Also 50% chance of knowing automatically if there's reefs, villages, etc on the way.

>Being immune to motherfucking magma

>Interstellar flight. No, I'm not fucking kidding.

>Generating enough heat to cause damage and set fires like a fire-crab

>Controlling elementals like a Lava Weird.

>Gloomwing pheromone "summons" (immune to things that block summoning of course)

>Immunity to shit like temporal magic

All that stuff listed, and far far more, were taken from EX abilities. Not supernatural. EX.

>>51488695
Gonna need more details there, mate.

How are immortals different that other folks, in a way that doesn't take a gene screening to spot? If there is a noticeable physical difference, then have everyone judge just on that. Say immortals have glowing yellow eyes, have signs on the doors of inns saying "no homeless, animals or sunstares allowed" and in general just have people treat them like shit.

If there are no tells for immortality, then how the fuck are people going to know?

>>51489031
>If there are no tells for immortality, then how the fuck are people going to know?
Well, every now and again, these giant mechanisms come down and herd everyone into giant pens, where one by one they're executed.
The ones who haven't reached the execution grounds, can see the immortals surviving execution and are really quite bitter.

>>51489065
If this were the case I would think people wold have bigger problems than "oh, this guy survived, what an asshole!" and more "Fuck, we need to find a way to kill these giant robot assholes!"

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>>51489079
Yeah. The giant mechanisms need to be shot out of the sky.

The rats that survive the poisoned grain aren't turned against by all the other rats.

They get laid.

They get laid a lot.

And then all their baby rats will eat that grain without trouble.

You don't hate the immortals for surviving executions. You fuck them. You fuck them before your turn happens. You must breed with them as much as everybody can.

>>51489110
Hell, even if they aren't fertile for whatever reason, do you really think they wouldn't arm up, train up and become an immortal legion devoted to ending the mechanical threat?
Seriously, guy, I think you need to scrap your setting and try again.

>>51486621
He'd probably just make new memories and secret plot the Fae's destruction on the side

>>51489110
>Entire chapter of Kaguya is angry flirting
>Confessions fired left and right
>Only the third party catches on

>>51489110
>>51489142
No, no, it's the dead people who get super mad.

There's like, spirits and stuff of the recently killed that come and kick the shit out of immortals constantly after this sort of events because they're angry at being killed, until the immortals fuck enough to birth sufficient kids for the spirits to reincarnate into. The kids aren't immortal, though.

>>51489310
... yeah you need to rework this.

It didn't even work all that well for Vandread, and that at least had tits and giant robots to keep us occupied.

>>51410062
Still looking for players; recruits are thinning out into two or three promising fellows. So far, going well.

>>51489358
Wait! Come back! I haven't even talked about the 25 generations of necessary incest implicit in the setting!

>>51489031
>how are they different than other folks
clearly they are different in that they DO NOT die when they are killed.

So, you guys exited for the Molthune/Nirmathas adventure path coming out? Part 1 is written by a /tg/ favorite, Amber Scott!

http://paizo.com/products/btpy9npj?Pathfinder-Adventure-Path-115-Trail-of-the-Hunted

>>51489566

>Molthune
>Amber Scott

Oh for fuck's sake

>>51489566
I want to have raw, unprotected sex with a prim and proper Molthunian Lady while a vile Nirmathi temptress watches and pleasures herself.

What's my alignment?

>>51489605

Nonredeemable Evil

>>51489605
I dunno, I can't imagine that anyone wouldn't want to do that.

>>51486594
>blinklings
Are we like, still just ignoring that they imply a cultural acceptance of taking the knot?

>>51489566
>Hobgoblin overdoze
No thanks. Is going to be Giantslayer all over again.
If I wanted super generic sword & sorcery adventures I woukd be playing D&D 5th ed and not F-listfinder.

>>51489703
Come now, we're civilised! We aren't space marines!

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>>51489605
... she's not much of a temptress with that failure.

>"I'm here, I want it, I'm already pleasuring myself visibly!"
>"So yeah, like I was saying; We get to the gates, and there's this giant bobblehead; like a goblin but it's six feet all and it's bob's wife.... by the way, who is that sitting there anyways?"
>"Dunno, something about stealing you away from me?"
>"Must be one of bill's friends or something"
>"Anyways you were saying about the Pikachu?"
>"Behind bob's wife. Shiny Pikachu. Forgot to ask about his wife but I did catch it!"
>"EXCUSE ME. FERTILE TEMPTRESS HERE"
>"Please don't interrupt while I'm comming, ma'am. You, come inside me more. What do you want for supper after this?"
>"I... I just wanted his wiener..."
>"Not you."

>>51489544
Are you telling me that people die when they are killed?

Even if you are correct, I can't accept that you are right.

>>51486976
Kind of you to say.

Although the majority of my hours are in classic world of darkness games. Not to say I haven't tried running pathfinder games before but this is my first time openly recruiting. I usually just hand-pick who joins but I wanted to get a greater pool of candidates (also consider it a social experiment to see how I handle it). Could tell about my previous attempts to start games if interested.

>>51489729
You kidding? She was such a vile temptress that she bamboozled two chaste, upstanding individuals into having non-marital sex right in front of her.
That's high level corruption right there

Hey there, I'm looking for a little bit of advice.

So, me and a friend are looking to do something a little odd, being a one-on-one evil campaign.

I'm wanting to give him some extra power to compensate for flying solo, but I don't really know how much extra to give him (He really wants to play an arcanist, and an undefended mage worries me).

Has anyone here ever done anything like this? any general advice? I was thinking about giving him Anti-paladin powers and spells equal to his level for free (So stuff like Smite Good and Touch of Corruption, but not the Armor class/weapons, BaB, or saves).

As for 'why' he gets free power and stuff, the general fluff is that the world has gotten to the point where there is no balance between good and evil, in the sense that the world is 99% good and 1% evil. A god makes a deal with the player in an attempt to restore 'evil' in a backwards "Bring balance to the world" kinda story. There's the fear that if there is no evil what-so-ever that the world will eventually lose willpower, and then the will to live, and then everyone will just... die.

>>51488227

I just hope all the party members find love and happiness on this journey to the ends of the earth!

Imagine how sad it would be if someone makes it to Kasai alone and untouched!

>>51490103
>she thinks they're not even married
Oh the poor naive fool...

>>51490226
Give him a competent bodyguard who is able, loyal, and utterly done with his shit.
Have him or her be the ever-suffering sane man bound to serve a wizard with no common sense.

Critique of SoM for not going "far enough" is really being blinded by your own bias.

Even alternative class systems cannot create free form character creation. There will always be a character concept you CAN'T do no matter how much you print.

Consider this. Did Gonzo and Gonzo 2 not go far enough? Consider why you would say yes or no.

>>51489566

>Amber Scott

Oh my god, no.

>>51490259

Doesn't really fit with the idea of being a man doing what he knows is 'wrong' for the right reasons, with sound enough logic that he can't be talked out of it. It's not that he 'likes' doing the evil deeds and such, so much as he's fine with it if it means he can keep the world spinning past his time.

Only four days left until Sleeping Goddess picks its players!

Who are your favorites? Are you ready for comfy adventures with a sleepy deity?

>>51490266

SoM should give the fighter equivalent full BAB, 10 skill points per level, superplusgood at all saves (like good saves but better), and at will (ex) wizard spell-casting

>>51490346
But you run into problems.
Wizard spell list is not enough to do ALL character concepts.

>>51490266
It isn't about character concepts, it is about giving martial characters equal opportunities in all the major aspects of gameplay as casters.

>>51486964
Yeah pretty much. It's not an identical fit, but it'd be the equivalent for pf. You might be preferring a spellcaster though, since 5elock is one of those.

>>51490382
But what does that mean?
Is the solution taking the wizard spell list and renaming it into fighter flavor?
Create Pit is now actually create pit, with a big shovel attack?
Fireball is a big bomb?

>>51490419
shovelknight.jpg

>>51490296

I was going to make a character until I realized the game was okay!

>>51486619
could you think of something else?

>>51490446
Polar Knight actually
Shovel Knight is a manlet, he could never dig that big holes

>>51490536
It's not too late. You could be the final ingredients that turns this comfy christmas cake simulator from "just okay" to "fan-fucking-tastic tier"

>>51490605

But what does the cake need? A dash of hunk, a sprinkle of milf?

>>51490626
Maybe, all it needs...

Is you.

>>51490238
One of the PCs is a minor. The only touch they could receive is the bad touch.

Sinners
All of you

>>51490677

Oh gosh! Little old me? Please, don't tease me like that!

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>>51490699

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>>51490688
>he doesn't like /ss/

>>51490745

> "Hey kid, wanna /ss/ ?"

Yes, please.

>>51490419
Obviously not, since nobody is proposing that you intentionally dense asshole.

>>51490688
>>51490745
Kyler is 16. After a time skip and travel she'll be 19/20.

>>51490855

>16
>Minor

Californian pls go.

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>>51490886
>Asuka and Rei both have ooodles of pron of them
>they're not even 15 yet
Really makes you think, huh...

>>51490904
They were 15 when I was like, 12. To me, middleschoolers were hot older girls.

They were 15 and some people on here weren't even born yet.

Now when someone says they're 15 you just nod and pretend it's true, while enjoying the fact that even in their 30s they don't look a day older.

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>>51491119

She will always be my eternal older sister waifu

I would be interested in applying as a rogue|wizard.

1. Is pre-game crafting allowed? If so, then how will pre-game crafting with the Craft Wondrous Item feat work? Will it follow the +25% WBL guideline in this page (scroll down to Adjusting Character Wealth by Level)?

2. I plan on using the blood money spell on the visualization of the mind spell, thereby gaining a significant bonus to Intelligence-based skill checks all day, including most social skill checks. I also plan on applying the effects of the Fey Obedience (Magdh) feat to such checks, including social skill checks. Which parts of this combination do you consider excessive, and in need of excision?

3. Do you allow a samsaran wizard to add spells to their spellbook early, through the mystic past life alternate racial trait? For instance, gaining greater magic aura as a 3rd-level spell via the bard spell list, or planar binding as a 5th-level spell using the chained summoner spell list.

I am considering an alchemist|wizard for this game.

1. Is the blood money spell allowed?

2. Is the Sacred Geometry feat allowed?

3. Is the Fey Obedience (Magdh) feat allowed?

4. Is pre-game crafting allowed? If so, then how will pre-game crafting with the Craft Wondrous Item feat work? Will it follow the +25% WBL guideline in this page (scroll down to Adjusting Character Wealth by Level)?

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>>51491288
What did he mean by this?

>>51491337
They're posting Edna's questions from Bathe Yourself in Blood game listing

>>51488186
The "feat subs" would be less crap if they at least just gave you feats, instead of being limited to martial focus so people will just buy the feat instead (hello, Berserker), or giving abilities that are almost but not the same as feats so you have to double-check how they work.

Martial focus in general seems confused about what it's supposed to do. If fundamentals like Power Attack are gated behind it, either people will ignore it, or they'll only dip SoM for a single sphere and use only that all the time because it's impractical to mix and match.

Are we being raided?

>>51491711
What?

>>51491711
no, y'all were always terrible

>>51489358
Hey man, Vandread was a good show!

>>51490103
The exact wording was "prim and proper Molthunian Lady"; nowhere in there does it state that she's unmarried. Therefore, the Nirmathi Temptress has done nothing!

>2hu trying to get a samsaran with summoner early access planar binding
>GM seems ok with it.
Whelp, this game looked preety fun. So much for that.

>>51491887
>gm said no to early access planar binding

on the other hand,

>gm still piecemeal banning shit ('using this for x is okay but not y') instead of putting their foot down and/or telling 2hu to fuck off

>>51491947
Now that's not a fair comparison to make. Piecemeal banning is a hell of a lot more fair than blanket banning; if I want to play a Wizard but don't break the game in half with it, or if I want to play a Warder but it isn't the dumbass custom weapon/broken blade/reflected style combo (AKA "as long as I'm not breaking combat in half"), then why should I get banned from doing so? Just because the POTENTIAL is there, that doesn't mean I HAVE to use the strongest options.

>>51491266
>>51491288
>>51491887
>Meanwhile the alchemist immediately gets shut down when the player asks if they can get a pass for master craftsman feat tax.
Wew!

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Which God or in-game philosophy best supports the Nietzschean concepts of Nihilism and the Superman?

>>51489983
I'd be interested.

>>51492020
Irori. It fits transcendentalism better than nihilism, but you could make it work easily.

>>51492005
There's a difference between 'no you can't play a warder' and 'no, you can't take blood money/cheese your spell lists with samsaran/worship an obscure fey god for +4 to every skill you'll ever roll'.

2hu is also not a person who is capable of anything less than full optimize all the time.

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>>51492020
Irori is pretty close
Personally though, what I want to know is which deity best fits Kierkegaardian Existentialist concepts of the Leap of Faith and the Knights of the Infinite.

>>51492005
You've obviously never talked to 2hu. For him the concept of choosing something sub-optimal is unthinkable. Ask him how to build a paladin and he'll tell you that warlord is better. This is an anecdote, not speculation.

>>51492154
>2hu doesn't know about the sacred servant archetype

lel kek

>>51492130
>Personally though, what I want to know is which deity best fits Kierkegaardian Existentialist concepts of the Leap of Faith and the Knights of the Infinite.

Ironically, I would assign the Knights of the Infinite and Christian Existentialism with Shelyn.

Kierkegaardian Existentialism is tied into the concept of decision being the sum of human existence and a human devotion to love (as God is Love) above all earthly concepts of morality is the greatest achievement one could pursue, yeah? That seems to tie into Shelyn's emphasis on pursuing love distilled from cultural beliefs on what constitutes love.

>>51492130
"With God all things are possible."
I'm going to have to go with Desna. She's got lots on her plate, but she's the goddess of dreams and luck, both of which fits well with someone never giving up on their belief, despite knowing it to be impossible.

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Joining an Iron Gods game with an unchained rogue, is there any way to get Finesse Training applied to ranged weapons like a laser pistol?

>>51492130
Well, the occasional really well-played paladin fits the knight of faith idea pretty well.

>>51492209
Nope, finesse training not only calls out finesse weapons, but specifically calls out only melee attacks, so even throwing a light weapon like a dagger doesn't work with it. If you want dex to damage with laser pistols you want gun training.

>>51492209
No but you could take three levels of trench fighter and get dex to damage on guns.

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>>51492202

Desna is also the Goddess of Journeys, both literal and conceptual, which fits snugly into the ideas posited by Kierkegaard - namely, the idea that although the world is too abstract and nebulous to change, the individual is concrete and mutable, a "thing" that is able to be molded by their lifetime of experiences and decisions (the concept of decision is paramount to Christian Existentialism, and the very existence of indecision is a torturous thing for both mind and spirit.)

Is there a way to enhance food and drink with a spell beyond the limits of potion crafting, kind of like Alchemist Infusions but applicable to innocuous foodstuffs? Some PrC or feat that I'm unaware of would be grand, and bonus points if you don't have to be able to touch the item to be enchanted so long as you know where it is and it's incredibly close to you.

>>51492212
>>51492202
>>51492193
>>51492130
>>51492020
>>51492305
>Existentialist warriors fighting for purpose in a grand campaign against the hedonists and materialists of the abyss
Now I kinda want a Philosophy Warriors campaign to be in.
With Diogenes as the support DMPC/Quest Giver/other essential NPC

What is the correct amount of feat investment for dex to hit and damage?

1 feat? 2 feat? 3 feats?

>>51492368
Red Feat
Blue Feat

>>51492064
The first one was going to be a Darklands/Underdark adventure. Party was mostly drow but had a couple slave characters. I can't remember the story exactly as we didn't get too far in (reasons to come) but it was starting with traveling to a newly discovered tunnel and ruins to determine its viability for settlement. Party never got to the next city, however, as one of the players was of the idea that just because they were a noble they didn't have to contribute (anything) to and encounter and still get full xp.

>>51492305
>(the concept of decision is paramount to Christian Existentialism, and the very existence of indecision is a torturous thing for both mind and spirit.)

Close, but I'd suggest the concept of *possibility* is far more important to Christian Existentialism than Decision, which is by all accounts a child of Possibility rather than a separate concept unto itself.

God is omnipotent and omniscient, which means by His very nature He is Possibility, and by believing in Possibility you believe in God - and we were created in His image, which is to say a Human being is a gestalt of not just necessity, but Possibility suggesting that Free Will and thus Sin was inevitable, but that opens a can of worms I'm not able to discuss.

>>51492064
>>51492397
Second was an attempt at an adventure based in Geb which the party is assembled by the man himself (through intermediaries at first but they eventually met him and his mad queen) to find out once and for all what happened to Nex. Ultimate goal of the adventure was going to be a surprise twist where the party died in a trap and somehow arise as Intelligent skeletons and have to find a way to return to life. That one was rather one-hit wonder though where I couldn't think of anything to do besides all that sonit died before we got that far.

>>51492357

We've got Nihilism and Christian Existentialism, what are two other philosophies that would fit nicely into character concepts?

>>51492491
Taoism is perfect for any Druid or Monk or the like, and would lead to them probably being the total bro of the party.
Bonus points if said Taoist carries around a jug of vinegar around with him.

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>>51492357

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>>51492541

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>>51492555

>>51492368
None. Just give Strength more nice things too and let people choose between them.

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>>51492540
>>51492491

>Nihilist is the Skill Monkey
>Christian Existentialist is the Paladin/Cleric
>Taoist is the Monk
>Hermeticist is the Wizard

>>51492357
>he doesn't know about Planescape

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>>51492590

>Hermeticist
>Wizard
>Not the religious Alchemist who believes the study of Nature is the study of God

How embarrassing

>>51492612

What do you think wizards do?

>>51492649

They don't use alchemy to transmute natural reagents into controlled explosions, that's for sure.

>>51492691

>Fireball
>Material components: a ball of bat guano and sulfur

They do it much more efficiently and with less nonsense than alchemists

>>51490852
Do not take thought experiments like that so strictly.
The point is that people know martials have to give up something that wizards have for the class system to make sense.
Nobody can just agree what they should lose.

>>51486594
I am going to report every single mention of Blinklings in this entire thread until any mention of that shit is banned on sight. I'm sick of the general being filled with you faggots.

>>51492754
But you just mentioned them anon!

reported

>>51492719

You present a good point... But what about eschew materials?

>>51492754
t. Gareth

>>51492802

Non canon!

Wizards aren't even really spellcasters. The material components for fireball is gunpowder. The material components for acid arrow is acid and an arrow. The material component for see invisibility is talcum powder.

>>51486594
>Has anyone seen the new blinklings in Bloodforge 1.5 yet?
More like "has anyone seen the new Bloodforge 1.5 yet?"

>>51492263
>>51492304
I was afraid of that, but thanks for the replies.

>>51493056
If guns are everywhere a single dip in gunslinger will do it. If you have a positive cha score take mysterious stranger and get cha AND dex to damage.

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>>51488774
So last thread we had a sociopath who plays in order to understand the mindset of normal people. This thread, we have a revelation that normal people have no desire to do the same in return.

rly makes u think

What classes would be the different characters from Romance of the Three Kingdoms?

>>51493324
Fighting man

>>51492590
>inb4 the philosophical zombie they dragged along just for his stats

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Fun feats/Spell advice.

I'm soon going to be playing an Orc Gingerbread Witch/Mad Dog Barbarian Gestalt who basically has the backstory of Remi from Ratatouille.

Any advice on fun things I could do related to food?

reference
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch-archetypes/gingerbread-witch-witch-archetype

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo---barbarian-archetypes/mad-dog

>>51493143
Thanks. Don't think it's guns everywhere but will ask the DM.

>>51492173
I have personally heard him call Sacred Servant "third tier at best".

Reminder that free will does not exist.
How can moral agents decide to do otherwise if everything in the physical world is determined and the Paladin's mind is physical.

The Paladin fell because he was fated to fall, there was no other possibility.

This is going to sound crazy but do alchemist bombs work with maneuvers?

>>51493520
In the fictional world of golarion there is free will. Me and you having free will doesn't actually matter in the argument.

>>51493422
True Primitive/Raging Cannibal may serve you better than mad dog.

>>51493520
>How can moral agents decide to do otherwise if everything in the physical world is determined and the Paladin's mind is physical.
The presence of souls and intangibles demonstrates your axiom is false. Souls and the like are non-deterministic, and thus as they interact with the material realm they too affect wholly material beings making them non-deterministic as well.

>>51493422
vore people

>>51493552
>>51493557
I bet the proteans did it

>>51493547
no.

>>51493547
They...dont? Unless the bomb specifically acts as a maneuver that is.

MAYBE a dirty trick could work but ehhhhhhhhh

>>51493552
I was thinking true primative but the appeal of an animal companion are hard to pass up.

Raging Cannibal is what he is trying to remove himself from. Simply eating meat is wasteful. He lovingly and diligently prepares his meals.

>>51493558
I am sad that it gets a bit creepy with the vore ability. I was in it for the food potions and stuff.

>>51493547
They don't because fuck you. Same with rays.

There really needs to be a PRC devoted to mixing stuff like rays/bombs/kinetic blasts with maneuvers.

>>51493324

Which... Ones?

Warlord, Warder, Hussar, all of them work,

>>51492020
The Four Brothers Triumphant, a splinter cult of the faith of the four brothers who venerate them as living gods and uphold their existence as the zenith of human potential. It says that the brother's stories and encounters are a living record of the futility and non-existence of old gods and the afterlife as a whole and upholds the four living saints as threading the needle of faith to salvation.

>>51492567
... I wanna run a game for these people.
I wanna run every game forever with these people.

>>51493506
I mean, that is true.

>>51493694

If you make a game about usurping the Demiurge, we may or may not come.

Why do we fault 2hu for minmaxing but give DHB a pass for it?

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>>51493738

DHB doesn't have an obsessed hatestalker yet. Are you looking to fill that position?

>>51493769
Yes he does, witchhunter targeted DHB pretty hard.

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>Played several pathfinder games over the course of 4 years
>Just now found out that you can train for 3 days to increase your HP by one so long as you aren't at the maximum possible HP for your HD

Holy fuckin' shit
Why didn't anyone ever tell me this before
I always roll really badly for HP and this is exactly what I needed, especially since my current GM likes to give us objectives that can be completed quickly, but with long timeframes so we usually end up with 4-5 days to do whatever we want

>>51493793
Because most folks don't allow it.

Though it is "spend money for more hp". Which in theory shouldn't be bad, but it's not a lot of GP for a lot of HP.

>>51493738
>implying the last few threads haven't been making fun of DHB for getting his homebrew BTFO and making fun of his character

maybe you aren't paying attention, fampai

>>51493810
According to the page I'm looking at, you just have to spend 3 days "at a martial academy, monk monastery, or with some kind of master of combat who is at least one level higher than you."

Ostensibly the martial academy will probably charge but the monks or the master of combat might not, if you have the right connections, which I do.

>>51493836
>Unless stated otherwise, retraining costs gp equal to 10 × your level × the number of days required to retrain.

>>51493823
>DHB for getting his homebrew BTFO
His homebrew was BTFO? Why?

>>51493738
2hu gets flak for using a decision tree to max out social skills with feat swaps if possible and then goes down from "most optimal" to "second most optimal" when options are banned, making mostly cookie-cutter builds based on what's available. After the build is complete, fluff is put round the creation.

DHB actually picks a concept to minmax around and then builds a fluffy character concept round the main conceits.

The difference is that DHB's characters have fluff much more central to the character as opposed to 2hu's stats with fluff attached.

No-one really gets too mad at strong characters (unless they outstrip other characters by miles) but we DO like characters to be more than a pile of stats.

>>51490745
>/ss/
>character is a grille

>>51493902
You're the shota you fool.

>>51493856
Our characters are all affiliated with our races' respective ruling houses in some way, and mine is the grandson of the current master-at-arms for our house, so I imagine I'd be able to get some freebies so long as we're in our home city at the time.

But even if I can't, or we're not in the right place, 210 gp for 1hp is a deal I can't refuse

>>51493878
DHB's characters don't have have much variety. He's built now:
>1 inquisitor
>1 warder
>4 oracles
>3 vigilante

He's made multiple oracle/vigilante combos.

>>51493940
And a monk.

>>51493902
Assaulting a young boy from whose perspective this picture is framed.

>>51493878
>After the build is complete, fluff is put round the creation.
I don't really see whats wrong with this.

>>51493940
in his defence
oracle and vigilante have so much customization

>>51493962
It's always the same character is the problem. DHB's characters are all pretty different both mechanically and narratively.

>>51493984
I've never really seen what 2hu makes. What's the same archetype he goes for?

>>51493999
If possible, wizard or arcanist with orator. If that's banned, it depends on what's available.

>>51493940

But Oracles and Vigilantes have a lot of viable builds depending of the archetypes or mysteries. Which expands further with 3rd party stuff like Legendary Vigilantes and Legendary Villains Vigilantes.

>>51493878

What happens when a character is mechanically weak yet the player is clearly making them fun and narratively rich in-game?

Should they be killed when the mechanically superior characters force an encounter?

>>51493769

What is the face of that most noble of goddesses trying to convey?

>>51494076
In that case you try to help them grow mechanically if possible. Like "this weapon enchant will really suit what you've been doing", or "this would be the perfect feat right now, given X and Y..."

One word of warning, on occasion the player will take any suggestions very, very badly. However it's probably not the case here since you said they're making them fun and narratively rich.

But "baaaww I'm useless it's no good" occasionally combines with "how dare you tell me how to build my character WHY WON'T ANYONE HELP ME" to make you really wanna punch in a few teeth.

>>51494076
Are you the GM, or another player?

>>51494094
Stop saving your farts in my jar!

>>51494131

What if they're mechanically weak not because of inefficient choices on the part of the player, but because the bar was raised by the rest of the party?

In other words, an otherwise solid character is made to seem weak and vestigial because the rest of the party powered up their builds. Is this a situation where you would advise the player to pick mechanically powerful options, or would you actively try to push narrative power over mechanical (less "you should pick a flaming sword" and more "turns out you're directly associated with a plot point.")

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>>51494094
Noble?

I'd say it's rather telling that where every other goddess is all "the church of", Aqua has the Axis... Cult. She doesn't have devout worshipers and priests... She has... Cultists.

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>>51494217
The difference between follower and cultist is very thin, Anon. It's a dangerous line.

Don't tread it more than you must.

>>51494076
Ok answer me this.
Do you think making mechanically strong character actually makes you strong narratively?
GM is omnipowerful
You cannot defeat him

>>51494217

All the greatest religions of the world used to have cultists, like Islam!

>>51490886
You do know that 16 is less than 18, right?

>>51494277
The problem isn't player vs. GM, it's a mixed group where 3 character can face a boss monster on even ground but the last 1 character gets insta-killed by any of its attacks. It requires much less tap-dancing around by the GM if all the PCs are of roughly equal combat competence.

>>51494280

16 is the AoC in most civilized states and nations, Pedro.

>>51494277

What I'm saying is that a player who does a great job of portraying a "powerful swordsman" is going to be very anguished when every other player outperforms them on the battlefield, even though the player isn't doing anything wrong or middling in their roleplay.

>>51494209
If mechanically more powerful options can be chosen without making actually playing the character more complicated, I'd say that. For example, 3.5's Eldritch Knight being replaced by the much better Abjurant Champion.

>>51493940
His characters have been:
>Infiltrator Inquisitor/Fiendbound Marauder
>Phantom Thief Rogue/Spirit Guide Dark Tapestry Oracle
>Impiricist Investigator
>Unchained Scaled Fist Monk/Shadow Oracle
>Beastborn Vigilante/Spirit Summoner
>Symbiotic Slayer Vigilante/Warsighted Shadow Oracle

Do these characters represent mechanical variety?

>>51494209
That is the most important time to help them out, before they get completely overshadowed.

You don't make them pick between narrative and mechanical: therein lies the city of Stormwind.

Rather, they're important to the plot, and as the other players have been really cranking their abilities up a notch, you think it would be a good idea if the two of you together - or if player wishes maybe even others in the group; some high optimizers are at their best when getting to share that knowledge with someone else - to help make sure the player won't be in trouble to keep up.

A LOT of build matters can be fluffily or thematically the same, but mechanically vastly different. It's the difference between grabbing "shield mastery" and "defensive expertise", or between "lol you can fire as a standard action to get half + int to your damage once a round on a ranged weapon" and deadly aim or at LEAST a scaling vital-strike or something.

A huge difference can be had from something as simple as "well, that enchantment looks decent enough, but I'll be honest with you, you'll probably never fight enough low-grade undead to really get anything out it. Normal Holy would do almost as well and work on most things, though.".

Or "here this other item from this other book does exactly the same thing for about 12k less gold. It's basically like errata for the old one. You could fluff it as either, obviously; they're just boots either way"

>>51494314
That's kind of why it's hard to play with /pfg/.

>>51494314
Depends on how you build it. I have played a "power swordsman" and had a lot to do in combat. However it required some fedangling.

>>51494314

Why would they be anguished? It's not like someone else on the team doing well ruins their character.

>>51494414
Everyone else doing their specific niche well can make it very hard to keep invested in a character, though.

>>51494428
You just need to build your swordsman better.

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>>51494278
Yeah but think of it this way.
On that world, Minor subordinates of Aqua have not only grabbed hold when she was already there, they've become major religions. Meanwhile she's got a hangover and is literally puking a rainbow in an alleyway (true story).

>>51494414

It can be very hard to stay invested in a character whose narrative power does not reflect their mechanical power, as anyone who has been stuck with a minmaxer in a "casual" game can attest.

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Okay ballroom Pathfinder is ACTUALLY happening (got cancelled on last week) in 1h, and I still don't know what to do to make such a session remotely interesting or entertaining. It's also going to be a large turnout I think. Like 5 of 7 are murderhobo characters with no social skills.

PCs are unwilling assassins of the old bat hosting it - half are dominated, other half are in it for the gains (part of the objectives outlined by their dominatrix was acquiring power and position). One of them has been given poison to use.

ANY ideas to make this engaging to more than like 2 people would be welcome.

>>51494450
That arms race mentality is exactly what people are complaining about, I believe.

>>51494450

That's kinda hard to do when you're five sessions in, or discover rebuilding will destroy a core fluff aspect of the character.

>>51494346
Just to add to anon; try to focus on the things that aren't critical to the character roleplaywise.

We ALL have at least a handful of options that we pick mechanically, as opposed to the true core of our build. Like, if someone really wants to do two-weapon-fighting, telling them don't do that it sucks do this instead is not helpful.

But they might not much care whether they got 'open mind' or 'toughness', or whether their armour is mithral or celesteel. Help THOSE parts optimize.

>>51494450
So what you're saying is this game is shit and doesn't allow for any sort of deviation from the "optimized" path?

>>51494463
Then have bandits/rebels/other enemy combatants of some sort crash the ball, so that the murderhobos have something to do.

What's the best race to pick for Fiendish Facade?

>>51494497

This is very wise advice, if you can see the goals of the player than do not try to alter those goals, alter the outliers.

>>51494700
Nascar

>>51494700

Gnoll. Especially if your parentage is ostensibly human-raises all kinds of horrifying questions.

>>51494293
Age of consent is not age of majority, Cletus.

Do you need a cleric and and bard in your party? What are the essential members of any party with chances for survival?

>>51493924
>>51493958
The underage character in game is a grille, geniuses.

>>51494924
Why the hell would you need a bard?

Cleric can be replaced by wands and scrolls if they're only showing up for healing.

>>51494966
Were we talking to you fagtron? Go kiss girls or whatever it is you faggots do. We're discussing superior tastes here.

>>51494217
Meh. When you get right down to it, Christianity is just a creepy death cult.

>>51495019

You're face is a creepy death cult.

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>>51494980

Social skills.

>>51495057
You mean the skills everyone can put ranks into?

>>51494278
Or Christianity.

>>51495019
Without getting too /pol/ with it, when you think about it, Christians have the biggest blank check when it comes to doing whatever they want.

According to the Bible, the ONLY requirement to getting into heaven is accepting Jesus as your savior, and acknowledging that him dying on the cross absolves you of your sins.

ALL your sins. Past, present and future. And the Christian God is omnipotent. He already knows every single sin you've committed or will commit, and Jesus dying on the cross absolves you of ALL of them.

So you got free reign to do whatever. Go on a murder spree. Rape children. Torture animals. Kick puppies. Burn homeless shelters to the ground while slitting the throats of anyone who runs out. Did you accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior? Guess who's going to Heaven. You are, cause your sins are forgiven by the blood of the lamb Jesus Christ, strictly according to the Bible.

>>51495195
Slavenmoral!
WryyyyyyyYYYYYYYY!!!

>>51495195

The Bible also teaches us not to be a fucking dick in the meantime.

Getting close to finishing up Rise of the Runelords. Is Shattered Star worth playing?

>>51495195
That is the most soulless Letter of the Law interpretation of Christianity I have ever seen, Christ.

>>51495195
This is what Sola Fidefags actually believe.

>>51495195
>>51495250
Probably comes from talking to some real asshole heretical sect. Westboro Baptists or the like.

>>51495248

It's okay. Not exactly stand-out, but not downright awful, either.

A God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice, and invented hell — mouths mercy, and invented hell — mouths Golden Rules and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people, and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites his poor abused slave to worship him!

>>51495276
The main question: do we get to kill another Runelord. This is important.

>>51495282
Sauce on that? I'm having trouble remembering, but I feel like I know it.

>>51495300

The Mysterious Stranger

>>51495195
That's the letter of the law, and Jesus states very clear that it's the spirit of it what actually matters.

>>51495300

Twain, if I remember correctly. Written after his wife and child died and he ran into financial problems.

>>51495296
Kind of, and "probably"?
>t. player who figures he and the other players are most of the way through book 3

Also of importance, how do you and your fellow players feel about gender benders?

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If I have a way to pounce, like by taking Martial Training for Primal Fury, should I also look into getting Dimensional ____ feats?

I'm kind of grasping at straws for what to take at higher levels beyond something to make "teleports right up in your face" an option.

>>51495311
>>51495327
Ah, I was almost ready to say either C.S. Lewis, or Al Pacino as Satan.

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>>51495333
>gender benders
Depends on the match-up.

>>51495296
No.
You put to end the misery of First King Xin himself.

Just how penalising is having a -3 in a dump stat for a particular skill?

>>51495407
Just be ready to roleplay your 4 int.

>>51495407
Well, if it's a class skill, you lose the +3 bonus. So it kinda balances out. Kinda.

>>51495407
Depends on whether you'll ever use that skill, and if you are incapable of subbing another score for the dumped score. Like, a 5 Cha face character is totally doable, you'll just be a turbo-autist who gets by solely on their ability to study up and bullshit social skills. You're also probably going to have lots of people seeing through you to realize you're checking your social cue cards for every conversation.

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>>51495469
>cha 5 face
>mfw

Just to remind you mouth breathers: Charisma doesn't mean how good you look, it means how strong is your personality and how CHARISMATIC you are as a person. You can look like a moldy potato with googly eyes and Dumbo ears and be charismatic. Just look at Israel "IZ" Kamakawiwoʻole for an example of a not-that-good looking charismatic person.

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>>51495587
>Cha isn't appearance!
>"Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance."