Warmachine / Hordes General - /wmhg/

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Threadly reminder to ignore the roleplayers claiming they have "insider information" on Privateer Press.

If you want to know how healthy the game is, just go to your local store, see if there are people playing, and more importantly, see if they are having F U N. Yes, we know PP has shady business practices, quality control issues, and a poor workplace culture. We know that garbage like LEVEL 7 and time-wasters like GRIND amount to nothing but lost revenue for the company, and that time would be better invested in balancing their primary (and more successful) game. Matt and Sherry are cunts, Jason Soles is a faggot.

It's nothing more than attention-whoring shitposting by:
- a butthurt Guildball player mad that nobody wants to play the totally-not-Warmachine sportsball kickstarter game, whose own general never hits 100 posts before falling off page 10.
- butthurt Malifaux and Infinity players upset that their local stores still relegate them to a general tabletop night and have to share tables with Star Wars, while Warmahordes gets a dedicated night and several shelves of stock.
- 40k players being 40k players and needing to rile up the nest. Seriously, just post a picture of the new Lord of Change and some shitty PP casts. Works better, saves more time. Makes me hate my Storm Raptor. :^)

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For an actual discussion... with the release of Una2, Amon, and whatever bullshit Cygnar and Khador will get in the next three months, do you think it's time to switch from a 2-list tournament to 3-list?

The biggest complaint I see people have of Una2 isn't the fact that they can't counter her (because they really can)... but that they can't counter her, and Wurmwood, and Armor lists.

>>51464412
3 list tournaments would be the death of Hordes, assuming one list can be banned. Warmachine factions can bring 2 spamlists and ban your list for countering spam. Like, it's cute and I really like the idea, but with the game in the state it's in, it can't work.

>>51464191
How does grind waste time when it's made by the organized play guy and not by actual developers?

>>51464557
Going off of the podcast, they playtest the shit out of games like grind and colossal wrestling in the office. Imagine if they spent that playtesting warmachine instead.

>>51464412
Amon wasn't released he just got way better in mk3
Like a lot of factions in mk2 with a two list pairing it was hard to cover everything. Haley2/3, but then you can't deal with bane spam, Deal with Bane Spam and you'll get hit with a jack heavy list like Khador "Karchev"? with tow and 3 heavys. Sevy1 making jacks rat7 under battle and mat9 or 10 smacking you down with EoM+battle. Storm wall lists, Circle stones bs.

The only thing that has changed is Spam Lists are way more extreme now but its only with 3 or 4 casters instead of 1 or 2 per faction. That leads to a few factions being busted and the rest being meh.

>>51464517
What 3 spam lists could any one faction bring?
for PoM you ban the Amon Lists, Circle ban Una2, Khador ban Hark,

>>51464635
>What 3 spam lists could any one faction bring?
You only need 2 spam lists. They can't ban both. Menoth brings Amon and Tristan. Sure no one does it better than Amon, but Tristan can have 7 warjacks loaded up with 3 focus and still have 7 focus on him on feat turn. Their jacks are still stupid enough that it's uphill for Hordes.

>>51464635
Sorry, meant Amon in theme.

>>51464517
What if they didn't have bans? What if they just let you take a third list, one that is probably specialized and only meant to play into certain other lists you're likely to face?

>>51464628
Doing shit like that prevents burnout. ECW and grind are things they do on their lunch breaks.

>>51464655
So menoth is the only faction that can bring two spam lists, Bring a hard counter to Amon or tristian and ban the other. GG no Re.

>>51464717
The problem is still the existence of spam lists. Seriously PP just put FA2 on all fucking jacks and beasts unless there's a reason not to.

>>51464191
>Threadly reminder to ignore the shitposters trying vainly to debunk "insider information" on Privateer Press.

Fabois will do anything to protect their precious, even ignoring reality.

So go ahead and engage, you might learn something useful and relevant.

>>51464724
>access to all the models of every faction
>access to unreleased and concept models and themes well in advance
>getting paid money to play the game
I mean... how could you ever burn out on this game in that position? I think I'd burn out playing "stand our two 120mms next to each other and shout wrestling memes" after the first day.

>>51464778
>>51460289

>>51464778
I mean every Miniatures company is dying right, I've seen it in every 40k/30k/infinity/Warhammer/Warmahordes thread i have ever seen, until the company is gone this Hersey is useless.

>>51464789
Not everyone understands how to have fun. It's fine. Some people like yourself can only imagine playing super srs wargames and can't imagine people who like silly games for fun.

>>51464412
The only Una2 counter Khador has is Sorscha1 with infantry spam, which seems like a terrible list to use against literally anything else.

And in 3 list, they can just ban it. Sure, you can ban Una2, but what happens if they ban your Wurmwood Counter and just bring Wurmwood?

It all bogs down to mindgames anyway, so I honestly don't think 2-list or 3-list makes a difference in terms of play, but I think 3-list in unnecessarily confusing and kind of discouraging.

I mean, why buy and paint all these models for your Karchev/Una list if your opponent bans it every single time anyway?

>>51464655

Couple things:

- Amon is radically better than Tristan2 as a jackspammer. Like, there's no comparison. Synergy is better than Manifest Destiny once you get four jacks swinging, and Mobility is as key to Amon's bullshit as Synergy is, and Tristan2 has no real alternative. If you bring both running jackspam, you'll be dropping shitty, slow jackspam.

- The Protectorate jacks that are "stupid" with Amon are mediocre without him because of the lack of Mobility. The Protectorate jacks that are solid without Amon aren't that great with Amon (with the exception of the Templar) because either he doesn't benefit their shooting or can't take them in theme.

Amon is so good because he makes slow, efficient jacks move up the board reasonably well and gives them even more punching power. Same thing with pre-nerf Karchev and why Harkevich is now the scary Khador jackspammer. Tristan2 just doesn't have the speed fixing to do work with a lot of SPD 4 jacks.

>>51464932
Karchev works fine against Una2. 7-8 Heavies > 7-8 Griffons. Una does not have enough griffons to double up and crack Khador armor. More often than not they survive as she can't Primal/HOF everything. Your turn after their feat just have the others re-engage if one falls. Their next turn they can't manage all that fury, some frenzy, others are loaded up on fury.

Even with flank it is really hard for griffons to crack stuff like Devastators too.

>>51464839
Ok Mr. Hungerford I will buy a Desert Hydra. Thx for fun gamerino.

so what would happen if people filed down the flesh hooks on the detailed side to match the non-detail, making it look like just scales? I haven't seen the model in-person, so I don't know bad it ACTUALLY is, but isn't that an option? Not saying it's a good one, or that it should even HAVE to be an option, but is it a viable one?

>>51464789
playtesting isn't fun.

Playtesting is serious business if you want to do a good job on it.

>>51465145
carving into a mini to create definition is lot harder than filing things to make smooth.

I'm sure someone out there can and will do it, but the important question is why should they?

>>51465162
I'm pretty sure Will Pastrami had fun dunking the baddies at PP with his 26 Reptile Hound list his first day.

>>51465329
then trying to fix the issue becomes unfun, then you try again, and again, and again.

Also one playtester I know said that since playtests were done in bulk with unreleased models, just trying to figure out/understand what was happening in the match itself was frustrating.

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>>51464105
>ranged warpwolf
>with drag and hunter
I want Loki to hook me and drag me in close.

>>51465536
And strike your rear arc?

>>51464191
>shady business practices
>poor workplace culture
Tell me about it, I'm new.
Or is it the case of PP being big enough that it's now cool to shit on them?

>>51464191

Jesus, get a fucking life? You are literally chasing threads around on an anon board to defend a corporation?

You read like a jobless 300 lb faggot. You really need to reconsider your life.

>>51464191
No ones suggesting people don't still play the game. But all you have to do is visiting some of the employees (or now former employees) facebook pages to see that they just laid off a portion of their staff. I don't think its unreasonable to bring up the health of the company.

>>51466023

Jesus, get a fucking life? You are literally chasing posts around on an anon board to criticize a game's fan?

You read like a jobless 300 lb faggot. You really need to reconsider your life.

>>51465686

Nah, they've done people wrong in the past (some anon was linking the mcvey story which looked shitty).

>>51464839
PP has a hiring freeze, denied Christmas bonuses this year and just laid people off. Sounds healthy to me?

>>51466059

No, I'm not the anon you were arguing with faggot. I came here to discuss Amon and you shit up the thread with your fan jerk again.

God this fucking community is CANCER.

Can you faggots not shit up another thread? People want to talk about the game, not your alleged drama.

>>51466063
And the enjoyability of ecw and grind has what to do with hiring freezes

>>51466095

No, I'm not the anon you were arguing with faggot. I came here to discuss Warmahordes and you shit up the thread with your corporate drama again.

God this fucking shitposter is CANCER.

>>51466121

lol, this entire thread cracks me. Whichever one you are, you're literally autistic

>>51465686
Basically, ignore this entire thread. Every now and then, there's some good information, but most of the time it's these same shitposters roleplaying as PP employees or friends of employees making outrageous claims like there's mass firings without providing any shred of a plausible piece of evidence.

If you want to actually discuss the game, find your local meta's groupme/discord/facebook and use the Privateer Press forums. This is just a shitpost circlejerk.

>>51466145

lol, this entire poster cracks me. Whichever one you are, you're literally autistic

>>51466121

No, I'm not the anon you were arguing with faggot. I came here to discuss Warmahordes and you shit up the thread with your corporate drama again.

God this fucking shitposter is CANCER.

>>51466146
The PP forums are censored, they take down any negativity. They should be fixing their game and sculpts instead of playing KGB.

>>51465686
Size doesn't matter, the issue is that PP has had bad reputation as a business with distinct people to point fingers to for quite a while. Let's face it. Can you think of any company big or small where at least 5 people can be pointed to having bad reputations?

If you want to shit on it based on size, models would be the one you would point to. The fact that companies smaller than them or kickstarters are providing higher quality material miniatures should be of major concern.

>>51464191
>tfw i really like level 7

>>51466350
Mods for most communities are volunteers. They don't take down constructive criticism, but yeah, you can't post like you're on 4chan there.

But thanks to mods you don't get faggots derailing threads over some inane bullshit or insult wars.

>>51466350
Not every public forum can work like 4chan does, man.

They don't out and out censor negative content, only people being shitheads. You can do it here, but you can't do it there.

Learn to write your views with an eye for the atmosphere you're writing into.

>>51466452
Nah, just new ones creep up.

>>51466452
>>51466487
The shut down any objection to PP's price fixing policy hard. That's what made me stop posting on their forum desu

>>51466487
>>51466350
They censor direct criticism to PP.

You can be shitting and raging on models all you want. I shat on models for months with no problem. It's when I started saying that PP has messed up that I got banned. Also discussing bans will also get things censored.

>>51466525
Yeah I remember that thread. It got derailed hard and the mods locked it since it started turning into a thinly-veiled flame war.

They weren't shutting down discussion of the policy, just shutting down shitheads being shitheads.

>>51466548
>start insulting people
>surprised why he got banned

Should do like league of legends, attach the post that got you banned and let us judge you. Failure to do so is an admittance of your mistake.

>>51466525
>>51466582
funny you mention that as there's a second thread up and running talking about it
probably gonna get locked because it was originally about how 40k is cheaper model per model

>>51466487

They shadow ban, then tell people to post to themselves so they can determine if the shadowban should be lifted.

I'm not joking.

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>>51466165
>>51466121
>>51466059

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>>51466669

>>51466597
considering that offending post has been deleted/mod edited, can't help you there unfortunately.

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>>51466682

That's high level meme autist

>>51466682
man, it's good to see lightning bolt printed again.

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>>51466727
Burn causes the most butthurt. It's a good reprint :^)

I want my hordes of Knights Exemplar Again, Crusaders of Sul theme list when?
DEUS VULT, because it can't be WH with out memes

>>51464628
Except they're internal playtestimg is terrible anyway because that's not how they play usually. So, better they spend time on other stuff that keeps them excited about the game and away from major balance decisions.

>>51465162
This 100%. Whether it's tabletop or vidya, running tests all the time is incredibly tediusus work usually. You're job is to dig carefully look for anything that moght be broken and then try to force it a dozen times in order to be sure it is busted, then after they fix it, run it another dozen times to see if the fix holds.

>>51466063
Honestly, the Christmas bonus thing makes sense to me. With the announcement of MK 3 and how much they dropped the ball when it launched, I'd be amazed if the company could afford to give bonuses to a small part of its employees much less the entirety of the company. Sure it sucks for the low level guys who couldn't have prevented it, but sometimes that's life.

>>51467561
>tediusus
>You're job
>moght
>testing is hard
>so is proofreading own posts

>>51464768
>FA
>helping
Not this shit again.

>>51466063
>PP has a hiring freeze, denied Christmas bonuses this year and just laid people off. Sounds healthy to me?
Now if there was any semblance of source on any of those that would really help your point.

>>51466548
>They censor direct criticism to PP.
Funny that they never seem to delete my posts and I can get very critical. Seems I just know how to write a post without every other word being "faggot" or "nigger".

Since scorne errata came out, does Legion became 2nd worst force in hordes behind trolls? Also rate list:

War Room Army

Legion of Everblight - Kryssa 10 pts

Theme: No Theme Selected
10 / 10 Army


Kryssa, Conviction of Everblight - WB: +31
- Angelius - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17)
- Angelius - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14)

Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1

Hellmouth - Hellmouth & 3 Tentacles: 6

>>51466452
>post something along the lines of why would there be an 19 point unit that bounces off of arm 17, maybe it needs some improvement
>a few people agree
>immediately a mod comes, tells you to refrain from unconstructive criticism and/or to keep it civilized and closes the thread.

What exactly makes Soles so powerful that everybody tiptoes around his decisions making PP into his private safespace? Without DC hungenford is the last competent person there and that is a stretch.

>>51470689
>What exactly makes Soles so powerful
If I had to guess I'd say it's the morningly bath in enchanted virgins' blood.

>>51470814
>virgins
>in Seattle

>>51470856
>/tg/ stuff
>not virgin filled

>>51470856
Soles bleeds himself.

>>51470689
Soles is actually really good at his job. Warmachine is balanced extremely well, despite 4chan and the forums bitching. It's just too bad he's a fucking weirdo

>>51471960
>Warmachine is balanced extremely well,

Dude, no. Only a handful of models ever see play beyond casual play. Every faction has models that have strictly better options in-faction. Hell, some factions only get by at tournament level by virtue of being carried by a small handful of models.

>>51470856
>>51471040
Seattle is filled with beta numale virgins.

Females are turbosluts.

>>51472132
Yeah how many tournies a week do you play?

90% of the games people play are casual.

>>51472192
Even in casual play the problem exists. There's a ton of models you're crippling yourself with, because you have a stronger option that does the same thing in the same faction. That's not well balanced.

Plus, while it certainly isn't the greatest, tournament play is at least a decent indicator for balance. Only see one or two units show up in almost every list regardless of caster? That shows a lack of viable options which is usually a symptom of poor balance.

>>51472192
>per week

Interesting career choice.

>Game is balanced

All told it's not that bad, but this meta shifts really fast. With the themes out now there was a lot of toss up. Also, they injected a significant amount of anti gunline stuff, not directly into cards but with themes etc. The amount of sac pawn, shield guard, more free support (that last one is iffy, because you just have some more models to attrit).

But Skorne had some really bad issues, they said they were already balanced, just not fun . Then they almost universally saw buffs. Cygnar is still Haley 2 and storm lances: the faction. Cryx may have a bit more than people are giving them credit for, but their units are fairly overcosted compared to the super efficient workers that khador or ret has access to.

>>51472271
>>51472315

That doesn't stop people from playing with other units. Not everything is going to see tournament play. Every champion in League doesn't see tournament play. Some things are going to be better than others regardless of how much balancing is done. But it doesn't matter if certain models don't see play beyond "casual play" because most of the games customers are playing are casual play games, and those one or two tournaments a year they decide to go to.

I'm not saying that PP shouldn't be balancing everything all the time. But to say it's woefully unbalanced is just false. That's a better claim for the 40k thread. :^)

>>51472315
Hey man, Cygnar also has Haley3

>>51472315
You know not once have I seen a Haley2+Storm Lance list at my locals.

It's like people play with other casters they like or something.

>>51465536
But then cuddles could happen

I am a competitive player and yes if you want to win at all cost there are just a bunch of stuff that are too good to pass up in every Faction.


But I have to admit that sometimes this is an exageration, I mean there are shitty model, but when you read on the forum or here it's seems like there are only OP and shitty choice with nothing in between.

That not true, every time I play with my friends on friday night it not uncommon that someone play the "underperforming" unit/combination that in reality works really well on the field.

A lot of people don't uderstand the game and are just struck with internet opinion. SOmetimes an army has an axcellent choice that don't see play because of meta, but for people that don't see it on torunament list it's automatic shit.

You want some example ?

Ravyn will of the nine voice, everybody consider that Tier shit then in the last year of MK2 was of the most played list, but it could have been done a lot of year before, but no one took the time cause no one bringed it to tournament.

Pagani Vlad list with Assault kommando (?) the guys with the flamthrower, they were shit for all the edition than WIll bring it to a tournament and placed really well (if not first, but I can't remember).

The truth is that too many people talk about the game instead of playing it.

>>51472315
>But Skorne had some really bad issues, they said they were already balanced, just not fun
What they said was that Skorne was "internally balanced"... which I don't totally agree with, but it doesn't imply they were balanced well against other factions. Thus the buffs.

What they meant is pretty obvious - they looked at Skorne just like all the other factions in Mk2. They toned down the "problem" models, like Molik, and hit print. This strategy had mixed results, because not all factions were on the same footing at the end of Mk2, and not all factions relied on their OP models to the same extent. Skorne was in a particularly bad place, because they were among the weakest factions at the end of Mk2, they had a number of models (and tier lists) they crutched on, and they relied on minions that also got nerfed.

In the aggregate, this meant Skorne ended up in a very bad place. They were maybe internally balanced, in the sense that you'd have a balanced game if everyone was playing Skorne... but not against other factions. The buffs they got this month were what they SHOULD have got during the Mk3 transition, and probably would have if PP did more testing.

It's pretty obvious from everything that's come out since, that the end of the Mk3 development cycle was rushed. The devs have admitted they would've liked to have as much as another year to work on it, but from the outside looking in, it's pretty obvious the business side pushed for an earlier release date. This in turn resulted in all the the post release damage control, up to an including the recent change to how they're releasing their rules.

>>51472470
He can chain me down and call me a bad dog all he wants.

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>>51472470
And handholding.
And eventually horrible rape.

>>51472461
That's true, but when talking about balance it doesn't matter that everyone can play what they like.

>>51472408
Also true, but you have to ask, if only a tiny number of models ever see play beyond casual tables, is the faction really balanced? Balance means options and variety.

>>51472502
>tfw when I play Skorne and had to listen to the endless torrents of "BUT YOU HAVE OPTIONS NOW" at my LGS after the errata when I continued to use my same old lists and they didn't get why
Sure we have more warlocks now but the only other option we got is a choice between Nihilators or Swordsmen.

>>51472502
what options do you really need beyond two?

Circle can play OP tree or OP bird lady. those are your options :^)

>>51472479
>it's pretty obvious the business side pushed for an earlier release date.
Honestly, I'm glad they did even with the faults of MK3.

2015 was a pretty stagnant and mediocre year for the game. The six months leading up to the L&L with MK3 were probably the worst months of the game line. "Maybe four people showing up if you're lucky" bad. There was a point where I was starting to regret having purchased into this game despite having played it for the better part of 8 years. I had that 40K regret.

Since MK3 dropped, my local stores have had every wargaming table full of people playing WMH on its game night with the occasional trenchcoat-wearing fedoralords playing Malifaux in the corner. After the Skorne errata, one night had a third the two dozen or so people we had playing Skorne in some fashion.

Rushed, incomplete, rife with errors, whatever the case, it's done a lot more good for the game than bad. Hopefully the Community Development project can fix what's fallen through the cracks.

>>51472526
I'm at least 80% sure that there are other Circle casters that can be competitive, people just aren't using them. Please tell me what's wrong with:
>Mohsar
>Kaya2
>Kromac2
>Kreuger2

>>51472525
Maybe you should stop playing your Mk2 lists then.

I need a little help guys. My friend started to play Cephalyx and he's getting a little disheartened because he keeps losing to me and my Khador (mostly due to the fact that I'm using him as a testing dummy for my highly tuned spike lists and because I have way more experience than him).

So I thought about building a more casual list to play just for him, until he fully understands/learns what his army is capable of and gets better at the actual game.

Any idea what I should build to have some fun games with him? My collection:
- Sorscha1
- Sorscha2
- Vlad1
- Old Witch
- Irusk2
- Harkevich
- Butcher3
- Kozlov
- 3 Destroyers
- 3 Juggernauts
- 2 Kodiaks
- 1 Decimator
- 1 Devastator
- 1 Spriggan
- Behemoth
- Ruin
- 1 Iron Fang Pikemen
- 1 Kayazy Assassins
- 2 units Eliminators
- 1 Winter Guard Rifles
- 1 Winter Guard Infantry
- 1 Greylord Ternion
- 1 Man-O-Wars
- Iron Fang Kovnik
- Man-O-War Kovnik
- Jozef Grigorovich
- Koldun Lord
- 2 Manhunters
- Yuri the Axe
- War Dog
- Ashley
- Eiryss1
- Kevin Bailoch
- Sylys whatyshysname

His Cephalyx lists are the Cognifex list (4 Wrecker, a bunch of squads and agigators) and the Thexus list (2 Wrecker, all infantry, 2 squads of free overlords).

I thought about using Old Witch theme, since she's a really sub-par caster, but I feel like she kind of counters his entire faction.

>>51472499
I'm not a furfag but werewolves are awesome. Also dem nipples.

Is it rape if I secretly want it?

>>51472184
Males can be virgins too

>>51472472
>You want some example ?
Here's a few more. Everybody said Doomy1 was shit for years, worst caster in the faction, even though Runes of War and all its key models had been out since Forces of Trollbloods. There was Kromac1 double stalker, again all the models had been there all along, and it just came out of left field. Kraye was another one everybody was always hating on that started taking trophies in the last couple years of Mk2. Hell, I had a Nemo1 (awful!) list for years with Thunderhead (waste of points!) and stormblades (the worst!) that I kicked a LOT of people's teeth in with.

>The truth is that too many people talk about the game instead of playing it.
Amen to that.

>>51472534
Yeah, that's fair. Obviously that's the side of the picture the business people were looking at. Our experience locally with Mk3 has also been very positive. Only point I was making is that if people are upset about the balance issues - we know the reason.

>>51472534
>with the occasional trenchcoat-wearing fedoralords playing Malifaux in the corner
It's a bowler hat, man. A GODDAMN BOWLER!!

But yeah, thanks for noticing me. Did I show you my new Colette crew?

>>51472539
>Mohsar
His pillar gimmick is easily destroyed now, which was all he had going for him. His feat, while not as one-sided useless as MK2, is only useful against lists like Karchev or Amon, but at the level of "inconvenient" and not crippling. Mohsar also requires you to run a lot of infantry, and as we all know, we're not in infantrymachine right now.

Aside from that, he's a 14/14, has no defenses, and Wurmwood plays the control game far better than he does.

>Krueger2
Neutered now that the -SPD doesn't prevent charges. Same reason with Mohsar; Wurmwood plays the control game better.

>Kaya2
Got smashed with the nerf bat. Loss of Alpha and loss of upkeep on Shadow Pack makes her weaker overall, to the point that Kromac2 has replaced her. If not Kromac2, then definitely the upcoming Kaya3 will kill her off.

>Kromac2
The only viable heavy beast spam option. He is a good caster. He's just third place in a 2-list format. Maybe 4th place depending on how good Kaya3 is.

>>51472614
I noticed you because I had to ask the owner to find an old card table with a wobbly leg for us to play on, since there were so many Warmachine players that night. We also had to play with the shitty plastic-laminated terrain instead of the nice mousepad/styrofoam pieces.

>>51472539
They are all good caster, I have some doubt for Mohsar cause of the feat, but he has game.

The fact is that ATM Circle list building depend too much on Wurmwood for fighting gunlines.

I like a lot Krueger2, but he want to play too much upfield for a 15/15 caster. The only buff I would like to have for him that would make me play it a lot if that Windstorm affect FF model instead of enemy. So that if you shoot to a model in my Control Area you get -5" to the range of the gun.

In this way even if I have to use 3 Fury every turn I can play Krueger behind and cast one or two spell.

>>51472556
The only difference between Skorne Mk2 lists and Skorne Mk3 lists is you trade your Incindiarii for a Sentry.

>>51472721
This shit is why people make fun of Skorne players.

>>51472539
I'll say right off I haven't played all of these that much in Mk3, but they also are united by having not changed all that much (at least in style). Anyway, here goes:

Mohsar - he's a very high skill cap control/denial caster with no especially ballbusting tricks... in a faction of control and denial casters with EXTREMELY ballbusting tricks. Mohsar is actually great if you are one of the more skilled players in your local, since he gives you the tools to play circles (ha!) around people. But a more skilled opponent is going to use his complexity against you.

Kaya2 is exactly what she's always been - a tier 1 alpha strike (and beta strike) and noobstomper extraordinaire.. and not much else. Against lists that can't deal, she'll consistently roll people, and if they can, she dies horribly.

Kromac2 - no idea why people aren't playing him. Our lights are as cheap now by default as they were with the discount in his Mk2 theme list, and they're mostly buffed besides. Hyper aggressive dodging griffons will get up in your opponent's face faster than you'd believe possible.

Krueger2 - maybe the best caster through the run of Mk2, obviously he got nerfed while many others got buffed. I think it's just a perception thing. Even nerfed his feat is still brutal, and his best-in-class spell list actually got BETTER, for some reason. At some point, people will give him a 2nd look and he'll have a little renaissance.

>>51472637
>We also had to play with the shitty plastic-laminated terrain instead of the nice mousepad/styrofoam pieces.
Ah that's too bad. You know, in Malifaux, we can still play with fully 3D modeled terrain? Yeah, I know, it's pretty great.

>shooting is not hoksune
>gets shooting list

ROR

When do we get the second tierlists?

>>51472825
You can in WMH. It's just for some reason the tournament mentality of flat 2D terrain reigns supreme.

For once I'd love to use volume and elevation LOS rules.

>>51472617
>His pillar gimmick is easily destroyed now, which was all he had going for him. His feat, while not as one-sided useless as MK2, is only useful against lists like Karchev or Amon, but at the level of "inconvenient" and not crippling. Mohsar also requires you to run a lot of infantry, and as we all know, we're not in infantrymachine right now.
Eh. The pillar gimmick still works, but it has the same core problem as ever, namely that its power scales down with increasing game size. At battlegroup scale, well used pillars can be completely soulcrushing. But at 75, your opponent will usually have the attacks available to deal with pillars (unless you do nothing but spam them).

Don't really agree about the infantrymachine thing - Mohsar is pretty equal-opportunity, and his Fury stat means he always wants at least a mid-size battlegroup. Most of my Mohsar lists have three heavies, sometimes four. And his 14/14 isn't that big a problem, since he's a backfield caster and it's Circle... if he gets killed, it's usually your fault.

>Mohsar is actually great if you are one of the more skilled players in your local, since he gives you the tools to play circles (ha!) around people. But a more skilled opponent is going to use his complexity against you.
So this is actually true of Circle broadly as a faction. If there's an issue with Mohsar, it's that a lot of other casters do this same thing easier and with fewer risks.

>>51472901
Of course you CAN. The problem with WMH is the rules aren't really built for 3D terrain. Skirmish scale games like Mali generally work much better on fully modeled tables because of the smaller model count (and smaller models, on average). LoS blocking is also more critical in Malifaux... much like infinity, you usually don't want tables where it's possible to draw LoS all the way across the board.

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Canadia Team Tournament:
http://www.ontarioteamchampionship.com/teams

Interesting to note the diversity in the Una lists. Some running 10x birds and nothing else, others running as little as 4x (?)

>>51473004
>you usually don't want tables where it's possible to draw LoS all the way across the board
You honestly don't want this in warmachine either.

Thankfully Hungerford has mentioned that in the 2017 rules packets this summer they're providing proper terrain placement guidance so people stop making shitty tables with wide open channels for gunlines.

>>51464412
Worth mentioning that in their errata insider, they said they don't balance the game around multiple lists.

>15. Is the game now balanced around pairing up two lists to fight against?
>Not intrinsically.

>>51473013
>Interesting to note the diversity in the Una lists. Some running 10x birds and nothing else, others running as little as 4x (?)

It's always the same concept more or less.

The difference is the amount of "Animus Support" they play for the Griffons.

>>51473073
That's a typical non-answer.

>>51473028
It's much less of an issue in WMH because most shooting is so short ranged. There's very few models that threaten even 24" with a gun.

>>51473013
>Interesting to note the diversity in the Una lists. Some running 10x birds and nothing else, others running as little as 4x (?)
Not really that surprising. It's important to remember that she's brand new. It will be at least a couple months before the "right" 2Na list is found.

>>51473182
NO UNA2 LIST IS RIGHT NERF HER TO THE SHELF MAD DOG 2.0 MY WAIFUS OF THE FLAME THEME LIST CAN'T COUNTER THIS REEEEEEEEEEE.

t. PP forumposter

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>>51473353
nice meme

>>51473963
redpill me on zerkova2.

>>51473114
>>51473182

Not really. She brings a lot of tools, and asking people to deal with the griffon feat and HOF cav and sentry stones and whatever else she brings AND the list she is paired with is what makes her so awesome. I would argue the more balanced lists are probably more effective than the 1 trick pony feat lists, though.

>>51475371
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points

(Zerkova 2) Obavnik Kommander Zerkova [+24]
- Reaver Guard
- Destroyer [14]
- Destroyer [14]
- Destroyer [14]
- Destroyer [14]
Greylord Outriders (max) [20]
Greylord Outriders (max) [20]
Battle Mechaniks (min) [3]

Sac-pawn your mechanics to fuel the Destroyer gunline with boosted shots and once your opponents expose their caster, drown it to death with 22 hit-boosted POW 12 sprays.

>>51475642
>Not valachev and zombos

>>51475683
The problem with that, is that Alexia herself doesn't really do anything relevant with Zerkova Feat.

Ayana and Holt might be worth looking at.

>>51472461
>my anecdote refutes your facts

Sure, people will continue to play what they own and like. You have to remember though, this game is about people who don't play in tournaments talking about people who play in tournaments.

>>51472868
I think the second list won't come until you get your respective command book.

Wasn't it basically confirmed that they are getting a praetorian theme? It may have just been used as an example or inferred by praetorian unit types or something.

May as well wishlist; I want another cav unit (and a ferox resculpt). Warlock is most likely mordikaar 2.

>>51472617
If you think pillars is all mohsar has going for him it's obvious you've never given him a shot. He effectively has a rat 8 boost able pow 13 (15 with CoS) magic spray that can be anywhere on the board, and crevasse. Whittle your opponent down then you bring out the pillars on turn 3 or 4. If he had a even slightly better feat he'd be top tier

>>51475730
And your anecdote doesn't refute my facts. :^)

It is the only thing of value that he has going for him over Wurmwood. And Pillars of Salt are more easily destroyed now.

Wurmwood has a POW 12 AOE 4 puller that has an effective range of 22 without needing to risk himself like Mohsar or spend fury to teleport away. Wurmwood also has CoS.

Wurmwood's feat blows Mohsar out of the water and makes Krueger's neutered feat look weak.

Both Wurmwood and Cassius have prowl and can shit forests everywhere to make it stealth, which tops Mohsar's pitiful old man stats and lack of defense.

Mohsar needs to be fired from the Omnipotent position in Circle's lore, and Morvhana needs her 3 version to take his place.

>>51475937
with sands of fate mohsar is almost never at risk. that's the whole idea. I mean I'm not saying that he's as good as wurmwood because he just plain isnt. but he's also not unplayable garbage

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>>51476223
>but he's also not unplayable garbage
Anon...

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I can't wait for February 8.

(Kaya 3) Kaya the Wildheart [+27]
- Druid Wilder [4]
- Loki [20]
- Ghetorix [21]
- Feral Warpwolf [18]
- Pureblood Warpwolf [17]
Blackclad Wayfarer [4]
Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5]
Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5]
Shifting Stones [3]
Shifting Stones [3]
Feralgeist [2]

(Una 2) Una the Skyhunter [+29]
- Druid Wilder [4]
- 7x Scarsfell Griffon [8]
- Gorax Rager [7]
- Pureblood Warpwolf [17]
Blackclad Wayfarer [4]
Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5]
Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5]
Shifting Stones [3]
Shifting Stones [3]

>>51475937
Not going to argue that Wurmwood is objectively stronger than Mohsar, but it's not as bad as all that.

>Pillars of Salt are more easily destroyed now.
Pillars ARE more easily destroyed (not being structures), but still can usually do the job they always did - namely messing with your opponent's activation order. It only takes one quality attack to reliably drop a pillar - good pillar use is all about using that fact to make your opponent waste valuable activations. They're still strong against heavy spam, for instance, where each pillar can potentially take a heavy out of the fight for the turn.

>Wurmwood has a POW 12 AOE 4 puller that has an effective range of 22 without needing to risk himself like Mohsar or spend fury to teleport away. Wurmwood also has CoS.
Yes, they both have CoS, and yes, Hellmouth is an amazing spell - it's one of Wurmwood's defining traits. Mohsar's got Mirage and Crevasse, which are obviously not on the same level but are still very good spells. And Sands lets Mohsar get nearly anywhere any unit member can run to, which is unparalleled as far as mobility goes.

>Wurmwood's feat blows Mohsar out of the water and makes Krueger's neutered feat look weak.
Mohsar's feat is bad, no argument there, except into very specific matchups. Of course, Wurmwood's feat just got nerfed, too, back to its Mk2 version. Krueger's feat is probably still the strongest of the three, even without the charge prohibition. With Rebuke and/or TK, he can simulate that effect when he needs it.

>Both Wurmwood and Cassius have prowl and can shit forests everywhere to make it stealth, which tops Mohsar's pitiful old man stats and lack of defense.
At the end of the day, the enemy should never be drawing LoS to either of them if you're playing it right. Both have access to gallows groves, sentry stones, and all the other Circle shenanigans. Wurmwood's got prowl and RG, but he usually needs it more too due to the SPD 0 and large base.

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>>51473013
>rockets
>griffons
>gunners

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

>>51476424
Wait, do we already know that Kaya3 only has 27 WB?

>>51476731
No. We also don't know Loki's PC.

I based it off of Morv2 and Magalith. Would cut the Feralgeist. I can't imagine points shifting more than 2 from those values though.

>>51476731
Having Sinergy I could see Kaya having few Best Point while Loki will surely be in the 17-20 point bracket, but not knowing his animus and POW is hard to tell.

Did anyone upload nq 69 yet?

>>51477780
or 70 for that matter

>>51477780
the company is dying and you guys are still pirating? go out and buy it or there wont be a nq in a few months, they are cutting stuff that is not making a profit

>>51478057
>the company is dying

Source?

>>51478070
You can't ask for a source because he would be risking some guy's job (even though he is about to lose it?).

AKA he's full of shit and roleplaying, buy guild ball please.

Hey guys, how does Impending Doom interact with Hymn of Shielding (or other such abilities)?

Can I still drag them?

>>51475683
What are you accomplishing there?

Alexia gets to craft two thrall runes on feat turn, and that's about it as far as interaction with z2 goes. I guess valachev can zephyr them twice.

>>51478687
Yes since it doesn't target

Are there any other games like warmahordes? I mean there is 40K but we dont talk about that. Mostly looking at being 28mm and having a bigger scale than skirmish (so no malinityball for me).

>>51478989
Age of Smegma

>>51478980
That's great, wow.

What about flashing blade? I know it doesn't get around Una's feat, but the spell itself doesn't target the hymned jacks, only the attack do, right?

>>51478057
>the company is dying and you guys are still pirating?

Yes.

>go out and buy it

No.

>>51479231
>>51478980
>>51478687
I've read the opposite

The Interdector the discount avatar can't be impending doomed or flashing bladed.

>>51478989
There might not be another game like wm/h. It's somewhat mtg-like combo nature makes it really quite different.

Bushido is handful of models skirmish. And has some amount of tricksy toy soldier about it. It is fantastical pseudo-weaboo.

And that's about all I can think, given my idiocy and lack of mental capacity, which have interaction and synergy kind of like wm/h.

>>51479654
Other Side by wyrd is planned to launch

>Watching Ret v Menoth at my LGS
>Ret player complains about a 3 point monk solo that's basically unkillable
>Menoth player complains about Sentinels walking around one shotting everything
Everyone is overpowered except Skorne ;~;

>>51464932
Pretty much this. 3 list with ban is just further enforcing the list chicken mindset. What people should be pushing for is PP to fix their shit and not just whatever they deem the CID is allowed to playtest.

So is nobody going to upload the Command Books? Some of us would just like to look at the new art and some fluff.

>>51480028
There's barely any new fluff. It's just new art.

>>51480089
I'd be fine with that. But I'll take that as a "no."

>>51478980
>>51479580
What is? Anyone with a rulebook in here?

>>51480089
The command books seem...super pointless. You get access to all rules upon their release for free, and they can only become out of date references.

I think they'd do better with strictly art and hobby books with the collected fluff.

>>51480510
It's a way to show your appreciation for PP. :^)

Make sure to pay full MSRP by buying direct from the company. Don't ride for free on deeply discounted websites!

>>51479966
What about 3 lists, no ban, but tourneys move to a double elimination format and there's a requirement that you cannot use the same list against the same player.

>>51480926
Aren't double elimination tournaments longer?

>>51480926
What about single list. No list chicken. Have to do everything. PP would have to own up to broken game sooner. Madrak2 got his shit kicked in at tourneys not because he was fair and balanced, but because he got countered. Same for the tree.

>>51481031
Double elimination tournaments are a LOT longer. That doesn't stop people obsessed with "MUH ESPORTS" from trying to force it into every game. Most don't even know how the format works.

>>51481160
Who gives a shit about esports?

The double elimination format is a tried and true format that helps to eliminate the effects of bad games or off days (which everyone has occasionally) from determining who is truly more skilled.

Here it could potentially be used to reduce the impact of needing to face off against getting hard countered, but so would bringing one list or playing best of three.

>>51481276
First of all, a game of Warmahordes is up to 2 hours long. That in of itself makes double elimination just too impractical. Secondly, only an autist thinks the "best player" should win every event. Where's the fun in a tournament where the winner is known beforehand? If you're the best, win the tournament regardless.

>>51481276
It would also have the impact of making the winner be whoever is left after everyone goes home or falls asleep.

>>51481305
The entire point of a tournament is to find out who the best is. The "best" isn't some static quality that one person can own, the best today may be runner up next week. Real life isn't some shitty anime with a protagonist who is the best and will only ever fail for character development reasons.

Also, the wonderful thing about tournaments is that they don't need to be finished in a day. You could declare that one week will be tourney week and every day that week hold one round of a 7 round tournament if you wanted to.

>>51481473
>The "best" isn't some static quality that one person can own, the best today may be runner up next week
So why the obsession with double elimination? If Una2 shitstomped you the first time, you're not gonna beat it the next time. And in theory if you do, you need to beat it TWICE assuming this is the grand finals. That's a lot of games no one has the time to play. Maybe to a NEET people can just spend days at a tournament, but in the real world people have jobs.

>>51481544
Well, using the other criteria that I suggested, you wouldn't be facing against Una2 again. You'd get fucked by Wormwood instead.

>>51481544
>Maybe to a NEET people can just spend days at a tournament, but in the real world people have jobs.
Not that guy, but each game only takes up to two hours. If table space is available, then 7 - 9 isn't really asking for much.

>>51481587
>You can't use the same list against the same player
So I'm forced to use a bad list against my opponent's also sub-optimal list. Then even if I win, we can't play again because we've now used both of our lists.

I personally wouldn't even consider entering a double elimination tournament.

>>51478687
Anyone clarify? I don't know which anon is right.

>>51481663
What is the wording? I don't feel like looking it up.

>>51481659
Why don't you actually read the posts before reeeeeeeing about how much you hate double elimination.

>>51478114
Stop bringing up that other game. No one even mentions it besides you. You look like an insecure fanboy.

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>>51481699
Impending Doom Cost: 2 RNG: Self
Enemy models within 5" of the spellcaster are pushed 5" directly toward it in any order you choose

>>51481965
Doesn't target, so stuff that prevents targeting doesn't do shit to it.

I just picked up Helios, which warcaster would you recommend would work best with it, I was thinking either Thyron or a Vyros?

>>51482618
General Wisdom indicates Vyros2 with griffons. Helynna might work with it but I think she likes a horde of cheapish heavies more. Thyron in my experience works best with one or two Heavies and maybe a light or two, with the Banshee being the best for him.

>>51483191
Good points I was just hoping that Thyron would use the free focus plus His side step feat would help manuever a griffon horde especially with TK cannon or just position things better for some MHA's.

>>51483274
Might as well give it a try. Thyron is pretty focus starved, that is sure true.

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So how's Legion compared to, say, Skorne

>>51483591
Better. But so is everything compared to Skorne.

>>51482014
>>51481965
>>51481663
>>51480390
>>51479580
>>51479231
Keep in mind that you cannot Impending Doom or Flashing Blade the Indictor, since it has a 5" no spell bubble.

>>51483591
Skorne became a lot better recently, so I'm not sure anyone knows definitively. My gut reaction is Circle>Skorne>/=Legion>Trollbloods, but I'm sure people will disagree. Legion has a fairly deep stable of competitive casters and a decent number of playable infantry and warbeasts.

Ontario Team Championship Faction Spread:

Khador 23
Retribution 21
Cygnar 19
Menoth 16
Mercenaries 13
Cryx 8
CoC 2

Circle 17
Trollbloods 14
Legion 10
Skorne 10
Minions 7

>have 40k
>have fantasy/AoS
>have starter WMH
>NO ONE TO PLAY WITH

Fucking christ. I'm going insane here.

I live in Eastern PA, and there is fuck all here. The last posts online are from 8 years ago. I have two fucking LGS and it's all fucking MTG. I can't even comprehend the shit I see here about just walking into a store and seeing people playing shit. It blows my goddamn mind. Both owners have tried to get something off the ground, and have failed.

I got the 2 player WMH box hoping to maybe drum up some interest. I figured, hey, I can maybe get some WMH instead of GW for a change, but no. They'd all rather play magic the fucking gathering.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm just losing my mind here.

>>51484889
Live in the same area. There are no LGS here though and all my local friends who also play are too busy with real life shit. Haven't bought shit since the mk 3 BB b/c I've not gotten to play even once.

>>51466548
what was your forum name dummy, there is a group of like 10 idiots that show up in every controversial thread, shitting up the place over there. i want to know if you were one of them.

>>51485117

Where at? I'm sorta between Reading and KoP.

I played MkII with a friend like 6 years ago, but our store closed before we could get anything off the ground, though GW was pretty ingrained there. Between him and my other group of friends, I think I played maybe 5 games. Haven't played since. Hell, I've only. Played about 4 games of 40k since that shop closed, too.

>Go to LGS and ask what wargames are being played
>No 40k, maybe six or seven active Warmachine players, a couple of Star Wars X-wing players


I'm considering getting into this game so I've watched the gameplay tutorial on youtube a few times. It looks fun, I just need to know which army is friendliest to start with mechanically and price-wise. Any thoughts? I'm ironically a tankie so i think khador has a nice aesthetic, not sure how they play though

>>51485467

Khador is good.

They're actually pretty straight forward. Tough jacks, good infantry (especially Winter Guard with Rockets) and very strong casters.

Most of their game is a straight forward combined arms. Probably one of the best starter factions.

>>51485785
Thanks man

I'm waiting on my LGS to restock their warmachine stuff so I can go out and support my store. The owner said something about a recent change that PP is doing and they want the dust to settle before they buy more of their product?

Anyways, they told me the Battlegroup boxes are an insanely good value so I'm waiting on that.

>>51485304
Nowhere near there. I'm in northern PA.
Started playing in the original release with 3 friends and more started playing as the years went on. Most still have models and "play" in the sense that they would if they could make any time.

What is Circle's gameplay gimmick? I just realized I haven't played against them so I have no idea what they do.

>>51486682

That sucks. Honestly, a few friends got me into it at first, too. We'd talk about it on Skype since we were scattered about, then meet up for a weekend at one guys house, play one game and be done. Despite them pushing me to play, I felt like I was the only one who wanted to play. It was maddening.

Of course, no one local played except for one friend, and now years later, I still have nothing. Except now, I can't even play 40k/AoS. Hell, even X-wing can't get a foothold here.

>>51486965
Movement tricks, sprays from downtown, other than that it depends on the caster.

WW controls like crazy, Baldur just won't die, 2na attritions like crazy, Kaya3 gets hyped like crazy

>>51485299
I ain't telling you that, you are just gonna shit on me.

>>51486965
Movement, forests and being really annoying to get rid of.

Redpill me on the king of ham hamkevich.

Ivsee people taking ivan even if he is quite bad imho

>>51488062
Ivan is one of the few models that actually make good use of broadsides.

>>51488072
How so?

>>51488062
Hitting 14s on Average is pretty good with a POW 14 gun.

I personally can't fit him in, since he's just so damn expensive. Black ivan is firmly sitting in this "great, but way too expensive"-camp, alongside the Spriggan and Beast-09.

>>51464191
>while Warmahordes gets a dedicated night and several shelves of stock.
Man, I wish...
Warmahordes is barely even played anymore over here. There's two guys around that play all the fucking time against each other, but not much beyond that. And there's a single shelf with three two-player starter kits and two rulebooks.

>>51464105
So are there any good guys in circle?

>>51488466
Baldur used to be.
Thorle is sorta neutral in that he just want other people to stop fucking with his stuff.
Grayle has so little character, he might be.
Everybody else is an assortment of cunts, assholes and autists.

>>51488466
Kaya is sis tier, Baldur is bro tier.
Wurmwood, kromac, Krueger are alpha tier
Morvhanna and tanith are bitch tier.

I'm not sure on Unas fluff.

>>51479654
I dont care about combos all that much. I just want to play war with fantasy toy soldiers and have a reasonable chance to stumble across people doing the same. Mk3 took away a lot of realism, both in terms of mechanics and typical list construction and 40K would be perfect if it didnt cost a grand for 1000pts army and was even just a bit more balanced.

>>51485467
>>51485785
Agreed, Khador is a very straightforward faction to learn, since it's one of the 4 from the original game. The best casters to start with are probably actually the original ones too (Butcher1, Vlad1, Sorscha1) since they do a good job of being straightforward to play but still interesting.

>>51485467
Instead of saying "X is an easy faction", it's easier to tell you which factions are especially tricky. Convergence of Cyriss, Circle Ourboros, Legion of Everblight, Cryx, Trollbloods, Mercenaries, and Minions all either have little wrinkles that make them tougher than average to get a handle on, or are in a place where they're tricky/expensive to get started with.

Not that you can't start with them, of course, and honestly it's important to pick a faction who's look and feel appeals to you. In the time it takes most people to collect a whole faction (years) the rules are going to change multiple times, there will be new releases, etc. Rules come and go. Your models are with you for the long haul, so you want to like them.

Regardless of which you pick, the least cost intensive move is to grab a battlebox (caster + 2 or 3 beasts/warjacks) split a two-player box with a friend (battlebox + a unit) or, if you find a good deal on ebay or somesuch, grab somebody's used army. You can often get 50% off or more using that last option, if you get lucky.

Trick is, the game can be played at very low point levels, and scaled up incrementally, so you don't need to go crazy buying everything up front. Play at the battlebox level until you get comfortable with it, then scale up say 25 points at a time. Get comfortable at each level - know all your rules, be able to play quickly - before you move to the next.

>>51484889
>Eastern PA
Philly area or up north?

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Just cuck my shit up, familia.

>>51485907
Might be worth waiting for the All-in-One army box, they just started doing them again. Basically a battle box on crack, bout 100USD for almost 200$ worth of stuff.

>>51489809

Between Reading and KoP

>>51484889
The trick is don't approach individual people trying to get them interested with demo games; approach small groups of people. That way they can all lean on each other and get in at the same time so will have a friend to talk to over the game.

>>51490152

They're 100% not interested. We tried blanket attempts. No one cares or "it's too expensive" after spending over $1000/mo on magic. Getting a bunch of players to half ass a hobby they're not really interested in never ends well.

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>>51464105
Friendly cryxian pirate with No Quarter 70. If you don't have already. It's mostly about Grind, but I hope you'll enjoy it anyway.

> http://www60.zippyshare.com/v/yNFLXb7t/file.html

>>51490399
Thank you. There's this Trollbloods story that I want to read.

>>51472271
>Even in casual play the problem exists. There's a ton of models you're crippling yourself with, because you have a stronger option that does the same thing in the same faction. That's not well balanced.

I have a win/loss ratio comparable to anyone else in my meta playing Menoth without relying on High Reclaimer/Sevvy2, Idrians, Flamebringers, and Scourge of Heresy.

My favored models are Feora, Malekus, Harbinger, KE, Zealots, Daughters, TFG, Reckoners/Sanctifiers, Guardians, Crusaders, Redeemers and Vigilants.

>>Only see one or two units show up in almost every list regardless of caster?

That sounds about right. 3-4 heavies, a unit or two, and a smattering of support units and various solos.

You start running 3+ infantry units and you're looking at bare minimum of heavies.

>>51490399
Thank you!
Also checked

>>51488062
Never not take viktor.

>>51490123
>Between Reading and KoP
Bit of a haul for me unfortunately... That's "way down by Philly" by our metric. Grew up on the NJ side up near the NJ/NY tri-state. Think some of my old friends up there in the Port Jervis / Milford area are still playing casually.

>>51491405

Yea. Everything's a bit of a haul from/to here it seems. An hour and a half minimum from what I've seen. I've mostly been in this general area my whole life, give or take 45min to an hour.

>>51490006
>All-in-one
Where did you hear they were selling these again? I'm not the same anon. I just lost interest shortly before mark 3 was released. Had my eyes on Menoth or the Russian faction.

>>51491402
>he fell for the broadside meme

>>51491520
Theyve announced the Cryx and Circle ones, and they might already be out.

>>51491520
>>51491568
here ye be:

>http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/01/privateer-50-point-army-boxes-now-available.html

>>51491592

As a new player with a 2-player starter box for the Cryx, how is that Cryx box? It's a bit more expensive than the circle one.

>>51491568
>>51491592
Nice thanks guys. How is menoth in mk3? Have their methods changed too much from mk2? Just asking cause I'm pretty much a normie to table top and spent a good while learning the game on my own.

>>51491568
I already got the cryx box.

Menoth and skorne are February.

>>51491698
I don't play them but their last few releases were solid to great.

>>51487011
Because you deserve to be shit on.

You won't post the remarks that got you banned because you know you deserved it, and you won't post your forum name because you know you deserved it.

Stop blaming the PP boogeyman when you're just acting like a faggot.

>>51492750
If you want to know, it's the thread on broadsides where I commented that wordings and rules from mkii have no bearing since broadsides didn't change but targetting flare's ability to be used during the spell has changed for no reason.

>>51493266
>>51492750
Also when I called mkiii a beta test that we all got suckered into paying full price for.

>>51493266
>>51493280
first statement, perfectly fine. Second statement you're just being an ass.

>>51493542
Considering the number of revisions made alone in less than a year, to the core rules even, I say I'm justified in calling this an incomplete product at best.

When you fuck up on charge rules and power attacks from the get go, someone dun goofed.

>>51490579
Trollblood story us actually pretty cool anon, hope you enjoy it

>>51491513
>Yea. Everything's a bit of a haul from/to here it seems.
Time to move to the Big City, pursue that dream of becoming a professional warmachine player. =)

>>51483855
That's what it is, thanks anon

T-minus eight days.

Where my Kaya3 spoilers at? I want to enjoy the salt before she's even legal.

General question for the thread from a newish player: how do you determine what your list does not want to see? I'm going to my first local Steamroller next month and I'm having trouble building a second list that covers my first because I don't know what my first list is weak to.

Also, general list building tips?

>>51493582
It wasn't so much a fuck up as autistic shits have to rules-lawyer everything under the sun. My group had no problem understanding the intent of the rules, and if you have to go after the phrasing, then you're a faggot. Infernals are useful, except when they encourage this behavior by allowing loopholes. Bunch of law school dropouts shitting it up for everyone.

>>51494782
And what is your first list?

>>51494810
Your group of 4 people that play once a month isn't the same as large sanctioned events that have to use the rules as written, not as intended.

>>51494782
>how do you determine what your list does not want to see?
Playing it and seeing what it does good against and what it sucks against. Reading battlereports or blogs about your caster

>>51494810
Too bad that the game only has a reputation of good rules due to your "autistic shits"

If you want to play with intent, go play 40k. RAW is all that matters for WMH and if you can't understand that, you have no grounds to criticize the critics of the game.

PP fucked up on things that were working fine over a decade and had the galls to blatantly lie to people as their intentions when it was pointed out.

This isn't some errata as the game changes like what they did with arm locks and huge bases, but day 1 issue from the release.

>>51493280
It's not like you're wrong. You're just being a dick. And that gets people banned outside of the 4chan safe space.

>>51495887
I have no regrets.

I would call them out again if I could.

I certainly don't expect them to handle the community playtest well, since I remember the first open playtest with mkii.

I also don't expect Hordes to get fixed for basically 2 years from now minimum.

>>51494843
The list is:

High Reclaimer
-Scourge of Heresy
-Guardian
Exemplar Vengers
Flamebringers
Idrians + Chieftain + Guide
Cleansers + UA
Choir
Mechanik

>(Morghoul 1) Master Tormentor Morghoul [+30]
- Aradus Soldier [16]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Despoiler [19]
- Titan Sentry [15]
- Aptimus Marketh [5]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Tyrant Zaadesh [4]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Void Spirit [4]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

>(Hexeris 1) Lord Tyrant Hexeris [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Reptile Hound [4]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

Hexxy1 is quite a good all-round caster now. The Reptile Hound makes a great arc node for 4 points. He struggles against heavy spam so that's where Morghoul1 comes in as I'm expecting two Amon players at my next Steamroller, and a Kromac2 heavy list. Maybe even Trolls. Should probably be using Xerxis1 instead of Hexxy but #YOLO.

Looking at old rowdy and realising he is as good as old mulg without need for support for measly 18 points and still isnt taken often made me really depressed.

>>51497231
Why bring an 18 point good heavy when you can bring a 12 point good heavy and 6 points of good models?

>>51485467
>>51489780
I just started playing this. I live in central illinois and tried playing 40k when i was younger because there was a GW at the mall 40 minutes away. Turned out that my buddy who was going to play with me moved to georgia so i never got the chance to go all in with it, did a stint of magic and then yugioh only to drop out of those due to the constant cost to stay relevant. My cousin who has been playing wargames for 20 years turns out lives 15 minutes from where i live now and agreed to help me dip my toes. He basically made good money and bought protectorate, skorne, cryx, cygnar and a bunch of other stuff and gave it to his friends to use as long as they kept with it. His one rule for me was "pick the army whose aesthetic and feel you like the most because youre not gonna want to paint something you think is ugly and you arent going to play long unless you enjoy what youre doing." basically gave me the most critical Protectorate pieces after I chose them and then taught me how to play. he gave me the intro pack for Kreoss1 and said I could have Avatar, Choir, 2 mechaniks...etc etc once i get storage to take care of them. So I basically got into this hobby for free and now I can use Menoth's Holy Flame to purge heresy as I see fit. I suggest you do some digging into the Lore and see what you dig. It sounds like youre settled on Khador so have fun, my dude.

>>51489780
this. my local shop is gearing up for a tournament and everyone there prefers to play 75 points as their default. As a CoC player who's starting out into the game it's really hard to get a handle on what I'm doing, since everyone wants to play full list and I want to do a 35 or 50 point list.

>>51498886
If no one will play a casual small list game with you, they're huge faggots.

>>51498913
Agreed. Small point games can be intense as shit. A lot more room for a sudden death fuckup.

>>51497231
That's because Cygnar is mainly (Lightning) Shooty Faction and he doesn't bring much you want in those kind of lists. He's real neat with Kraye though. If he was in a different faction he'd probably see more play, although I find it hard to pin this down.
Does he see no play in your area? Or not much competitive play?
If your looking at competitive play, you have to keep in mind that, again, he doesn't do much for casters like Haley2, Sloan or Nemo3.
If he was in a different faction like Protectorate or Khador, he'd probably see more play (but maybe not at the high competitive level)

>>51498886
I fear the same thing, I play trolls at 50 points, and my friend plays Cygnar at 50, so I can at least play with him, but I doubt I'd be able to play anyone else at 50 at my store. Won't be able to find out till next monday, when I go to my first wargames night in 4 years, but I'm doubtful.

>>51501580
my first ever game was a 50-point against a Trolls list, it was tons of fun

every game since then, however, has been 75. And for the most part, they've been pretty not great.

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>>51494810
>It wasn't so much a fuck up as autistic shits have to rules-lawyer everything under the sun. My group had no problem understanding the intent of the rules, and if you have to go after the phrasing, then you're a faggot. Infernals are useful, except when they encourage this behavior by allowing loopholes. Bunch of law school dropouts shitting it up for everyone.

You're fucking retarded.

The Power Attack Throw Rule was changed from Mk 2 to Mk 3 (removed scatter and own base when throwing directly away). This broke the game with certain models. This is not an autistic rules lawyer going after a loophole. They PURPOSEFULLY changed that rule and when you follow it, it breaks the game.

Flank was the same way.

Charge was the same way.


PP just fucked up anon, you need to get over your hero worship. It doesn't make them better as a company, calling them out for mistakes (in a constructive way) makes them better as a company.

Internal faction balance (and intra-faction balance) is a fucking disaster right now. The core change they made to Warjacks was a step too far somewhere along the way (Is it the MAT, Power Up, the cost, the FA?). These are bad things for the game, they need to be talked about.

Get the fuck over yourself and quit saying intent, it makes you look like a retard.

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>new store opened up near me
>actually stocks warmachine/hordes starter boxes, excited to have a place finally close to play
>there's only one person who actually plays
This sucks.
How do I grow a community /wmhg/?

>>51502264
Run two-player box demos imo

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>>51502300
Well shit, I already have the trollbloods battle box, so the Hordes one would be redundant.
Guess it's time to get started on that Cygnar army. I would think matching up Hordes against Warmachine might be a good idea, because it showcases both aspects of the game.

>>51502264
Run a league.

Become a PG and start running games for people.

Run demos.

Advertise. make a consistent day that everyone comes down to play.

>>51502337
If your gamestore is worth half a shit they'll break open some battleboxes for the express purpose of running demos.

>>51497640
town?

>>51495520
Triggered much?

Do fennblades mesh with Gunnbjorn? I want to trade my firend some 40k stuff for the unit of fennblades that come with the starter box. He has Gunnbjorn and I want to be sure I'm not screwing him over.

>>51502737
yes. Being sold an incomplete product does trigger me.

>>51502932
He doesn't do much for them beyond the feat, if anything they actively interfere with each other.

>>51503092
>He doesn't do much for them beyond the feat, if anything they actively interfere with each other.
I figured as much

>>51503131
They might still be worth it. Ranged lists often want one generic frontline option and Fennblades are that. What more than delivery-by-feat do they need?

>>51503404
The problem comes with their use.

Fenns have really high speed and reach combined with vengeance. This means that in order to get the best use out of them, you end with the unit digging deeper and deeper into the enemy melee. Gun armies don't want that.

Gun armies want to delay the enemy blitz, not initiate one itself. It especially don't want to do it on a wide spread area like fenns do since they have a UA that lets them spread even further while having abilities that go for mobility and reach.

You want the enemy funneled into you so you want to take models that draws attention to a concentrated area. where you can focus fire back with Gunnbjorn's bazooka, bomber's aoes, and while keeping a narrow front line you protect with rockwall.

>>51503450
Well you don't have to jam them into the enemy lines the first chance you get. You could keep them in front of your army, soak up enemy melee and charge in whent he time is right.

>>51503500
They are way too fragile to just sit and take a charge. In order to get any real value out of them, you need to get the alpha + vengeance with the UA.

They just don't mesh with Gunnbjorn at all. Gunnbjorn wants to 1 to 1 trade game where he occasionally wins big with crits or dice spikes with boosts that he's freeing up while keeping vital assets alive with rockwall.

Fenns don't contribute to that at all.

>>51503579
But what are you using for scenario then?

>>51503641
any of your stuff. The current steamroller makes it easy to contest/dislodging flag while the zones are big enough to sit and shoot inside of while not going down on points.

Gunny's going for a slow win and he can delay the scenario game long enough, just from the way he plays.

>>51503672
I mean, how would you for example prevent enemy scoring on Entrenched?

>>51503692
Honestly I would not play Gunny in entrenched, but I would be throwing little stuff like fire eaters or scouts if I was doing it.

I've shoved mountain kings to decent success as well, although it depends on enemy comp.

>>51503730
I'd presume Gunnbjorn would like all the ranged trolls, sluggas, scatterguns, etc, but regarding earlier discussion.

>>51503404
Wouldn't even Kriel Warriors work better than Fennblades in the "one melee unit to frontline" roll?

>>51501447
You missed the point. I am not dissapointed with ol rowdy not hitting the tablem. I would kill to get ol rowdy switch cards with mulg.

>>51480510
Which is why they're cutting out the rules in future books.

>Gladiator goes up in points
>Suddenly it's not realistic to bring multiple
>Since it's now relegated to a heavy support beast, you may as well bring Zaadesh1 as a Rushbot
Remember, if you say Skorne has options enough, it'll come true.

>>51505672
Imagine being so pathetic that you have to shitpost all day about how your faction way ruined when everyone else is having a blast with the exact same faction.

>>51505833
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo

>>51505860
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ImAFuckingBitchPleaseRapeMyFace

>>51505672
>Since it's now relegated to a heavy support beast,

More one element among many, actually.

>and really... do you play skorne?
>not as in own the models, as in actually been getting in games lately?

>>51506017

>More one element among many, actually.

The Soldier/Gladiator combo guys never even noticed a point increase, for instance- kind of the opposite actually.

>>51494782
At that point in your development, I'd just take two casters you're comfortable with and come what may. If you're 1st list is very weak to something obvious (like if it can't crack multiple ARM 20 models, for instance, or can't deal with DEF 16 infantry) then your second list should be good at that thing. If in doubt, just pick two casters that are of different styles.

So for instance, if you're first caster is a back line spell slinger, you might want to grab a mid-line support caster or a personal assassin for your 2nd list. But it's going to help you more as a newer player if you're just playing with models you know well and really have a good feel for, so don't stretch too much worrying about covering all possible matchups.

>>51494810
For beer & pretzels gaming, rules-as-intended is fine, of course. But the main thing that drew most WMH players to the game (and away from things like 40K) is that it was designed with a competitive (and public) environment in mind. In an LGS, or at a tournament, rules-as-intended DOES NOT cut it. Expectations need to be clear, and you need to be able to deal with the bad apples. You want rules to be as resilient to rules lawyering as possible.

>>51479722
> Everyone except skorne
Trolls would like a word with you.

>>51497231
Rowdy's a good value at 18, no doubt about it. I use him plenty. I think, if anything, the reason you don't see him that much is the odd spot expensive jacks occupy in Cygnar list building right now. Most Cygnar lists start with units (outside of a few specific jack casters like Kraye or Darius), and Cygnar's good units are also very expensive. Lances + Katie is 28 points, the Trencher boat can easily run 25 or 30, and there are a lot of great solos like GMCA that add up quick.

The result is you often end up with something close to a minimum battlegroup. A single colossal, or a pair of heavies and a light, something like that. Expensive heavies mean you're bringing maybe one other heavy, or a couple cheap lights... and it feels a little thin. So more often then not you end up downgrading to budget heavies instead, to squeeze in another unit attachment or GMCA or whatever.

>>51502932
Fennblades are pretty independent, honestly, even though they don't have much built-in synergy with Gunny. But nobody stops at one caster anyhow, and Fennblades are still one of the most broadly useful units in the faction... I think you're OK.

>>51505913
heyyyyyyy.... THAT LINK DOESN'T LEAD ANYWHERE

>>51506520
Neither does whining about the Titan Gladiator.

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I played Vlad1 with double minRockets yesterday for the first time in my life.

That felt disgusting. I need to take a shower.

>>51506636
Played into a similar Vlad1 list with a Conquest and the Amory objective. Got shit on majorly.

I want to start getting some infantry for Legion but the prices on some of that shit is ridiculous. What would be some good alternative models some of them (mainly swordsmen)?

>>51506636

You are bad and you should feel bad. Wear your filth upon your body as you do your soul.

http://conflictchamber.com/#bc1bdjdBdbd9dqdsdEdE

Convergence Army - 63 / 75 points

!!! Your army must contain at least 98 total points.

(Lucant 1) Father Lucant, Divinity Architect [+28]
- Corollary [6]
- Prime Axiom [38]
- Inverter [15]
Obstructors (max) [11]
Reductors (max) [13]
Enigma Foundry [4]
Enigma Foundry [4]

what should I add to this? I've got enough points for a Conservator, so I was thinking about throwing one of them in here, but I wasn't sure.

Hey guys, been away from the game for a year and looking to come back in. I played a lot during MK2 and the lists I know are from that meta as well.

I play Ret, mainly Rahn, but also some Vyros2 Griffon murder and Issyria.

What has happened to the lists of my favourite casters? Are there any new Ret staples? Does Thyron still bring nothing interesting to the table?

Cheers.

>>51508883
Rahn arguably got better in the transition, although you won't be putting three units of HSBMs on the table if you used to. Vyros2's griffon murder now usually wants Lanyssa Ryssel but Powerup helped a lot and it can still run with Imperatus as the only heavy. Issyria's Blinding Light can now effect Gargossals and can't be shaken. Dawnguard Sentinels show up in most lists, and Invictors are quite good now. Thyron still has his problems of being focus starved and dying easily on the midline.

>>51508883
Here's some high placing lists with those casters from a recent tournament.
http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/players/view/1325
http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/players/view/1316

>>51506982
Anything elves, really, as long as it's unarmored and carries a katana (or similar). Then just modify to taste. Do be aware Privateer has a relatively strict conversion/proxy policy - but that's really only relevant if you plan on playing in national tournaments or your local group is full of <insert derogatory label here>.

>>51472559
Vlad1 has always been my go to for fun games. He's not crazy powerful, but he gives a pretty good idea of what Khador's about. A few jacks and a ton of infantry to round things out. Hell, try Man-O-Wars if you're just playing casual games.

>>51509586
Vlad seems okay.

What else do I throw in? I probably want to use three jacks at most (so that his infantry list has 1 less and his heavy list 1 more).

>>51511411
For vlad, you literally can shove anything you want. That's the beauty of vlad. If it can attack, you can make it good.

>>51511436
The context is that the list has to be fun to play against. I don't want to "teach" someone the game with >>51506636

>>51509586
This is interesting to me. I was attracted to Vlad1 by his Blood of Kings buff. It struck me as the kind of buff that let him play deceptively aggressively when combined with war dog and LoS screening.

Course I haven't played that much, and generally play Sorscha1 because shes the caster I have (I got Strakov too but don't really see the appeal.). I figured better to just play one caster a lot until competent. And Sorscha1 seems cool mang.

Is it a noobtrap to look at vlad's really high Def/arm, see a wardog's immunity to knockdown and free strikes, and I see a caster that can potentially carve the heart out of the enemy force himself.

>>51511476
Khador doesn't get stupid oppressive unless you keep spamming the same shit. Nothing in your collection is spammable beyond heavy boxes but you said that you weren't doing that.

I guess I would avoid taking alten ashley since grievous wound is bit annoying and don't spam greylords since magic bypasses all their anti ranged shit.

He's playing cephalyx, he's gonna need to learn to git gud faster than other faction players anyway.

>>51511556
it's definitely a noob trap. Vlad 1 loses more than half his stack casting blood of kings and people can kill heavies very easily in this game. Vlad's stat is not insurmountable.

Blood of King should be last turn game ender where you ran out of things to signs of portent and basically go man mode.

Vlad is very one-dimensional in his very broad play. Basically, you want to always keep Signs and Potents on your guys, unless you need that extra hitting power to clear out a Heavy from the backline.

Blood of Kings doesn't make you invincible, but an opponent cannot rely on just a heavy or just a caster to take Vlad out, so once the enemy army is whittled down and (and yours is too), go nuts and cast it.

Just keep in mind that most of the time, a unit/jack under Signs and Potents can do more work than Vlad under Blood of Kings.

>>51511584
Tangent on the topic of man mode: is Vyros the only Ret caster who can semi-reliably engage and eliminate things other than an average warnoun?

I'm trying to figure how to make an aggressive elf list to pair with Rahn without going gunline skew and/or committing mass suicide.

>>51511759
If you are talking just man-moding everything Thyron can do it too.

Ironically the most gunliney of caster, Ossyan can go super blitz as well since his feat works defensively as well.

If I have a Blessed AoE wrapon that scatters onto a unit with Iron Flesh, do I deal blast damage to them still?

>>51512067
blessed ignores modifications to stats like +2 armor.

It doesn't ignore rules text. So iron flesh still prevent your magical blast damage

>>51512121
I'm pretty sure Blessed only ignores spells and upkeeps. Stuff like Shields and Shield Wall is fine.

>>51512910
I'm taking ironflesh here. Where am I mentioning shields?

>>51513145
>blessed ignores modifications to stats like +2 armor
This statement is false in the vacuum of that post.

>>51513164
You do know what iron flesh does right?

It's +2 armor and immunity to blast

>>51513181
I know what Iron Flesh does and that Blessed ignores it, but the reply to that post was that Blessed ignores modifications to stats. A new player reading that might think it ignores Shield Wall or Wall of Steel.

>>51513215
considering that the topic is on the spell, you should think the spell.

The new player should read the text of the rule.

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What do you think, /tg/-kun?

>>51514447
New thread move whenever

>>51514453
Wait never mind I forgot the title

>>51514453
>>51514481
New thread for real this time
>>51514493