/swg/ - Star Wars General - Flipping Destiny Edition

DUDE INVADING TARIS LMAO

>>51444375
Since symbols do not cancel when crafting, how would you resolve the Gambler's Double or Nothing trait?

>>51444417

I think symbols do still cancel when Crafting - this is how it's not completely broken you have to have the right talents and be really good to pile on all that Adv.

I've heard that as a houserule before though. It's just gonna be quirky as fuck.

Remind me what Double or Nothing does?

>>51444417

As a GM, I would say that Double or Nothing doesn't work with crafting.

Alternatively; setbacks are also doubled. Why? Because it'd be funny. It'll be the most tricked out yet also terrible crafted item ever.

>>51444507
Doubles the number of advantage, after canceling, on any roll.

>>51444507

Double or Nothing means that the user can increase the difficulty of a check by one, but double the remaining advantages on the roll after cancelling opposing symbols.

Having re-read the Special Mods rules for crafting, you do not cancel opposing symbols on crafting checks (which means I've been doing it wrong in my game, oh dear).

>>51444556
>the most tricked out yet also terrible crafted item ever
Sienar R&D in a nutshell.

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>>51444556
Yeah. Risky gambling and crafting don't work well together.

>>51444561
>>51444507
It can also be upgraded to double successes and eventually triumphs and despairs after cancellation.

>>51444587

Oh my - yeah, I also did that wrong. Is it that way in Keeping the Peace?

I'd say there's two ways you can do it, and the GM should figure it out with a player. Either it does nothing because there's no cancellation (a very technical response) or it doubles all - which is the option you go with if you just want stuff to be crazy.

>>51444751
>Is it that way in Keeping the Peace?
Yes, crafting works the same way all the time except how it deals with materials after a failure. Armor and weapon crafting failures result in the loss of the materials, droid crafting does not.

>>51444751
>>51444587

I must apologise; having re-re-read the Special Mods rules (and having had a shower), it doesn't say if you do or do not cancel down opposing icons on the crafting check.

If crafting was to be an exception to the usual roll>cancel opposing symbols>end result standard, it would imagine they would have made it very clear that that was the case.

Which means, in answer to the initial question; Double or Nothing would work as usual, as advantages would have been reduced by any disadvantages rolled.

It also means I've not been doing it wrong, which is a mild relief.

>>51444891
>it doesn't say if you do or do not cancel down opposing icons on the crafting check.
It doesn't EXPLICITLY say that, but it's highly suggested by the "First do advantage and triumph, THEN do despair and threat."
It also makes a lot more sense, in my opinion, so you could have a very good creation with a slight defect, like a bad personality on an otherwise stellar droid.

>>51444932

That's actually the way all checks are supposed to resolve, the active party resolves any showing triumph or advantage, then the GM figures out what to do with any showing Threat or Despair.

>>51444950
Yeah, I suppose. My way seems more fun, though.

>>51444950

Looking in the core rulebook, you are not correct.

You work out success/failure, and then work out if any advantages or disadvantages are left over after they are cancelled down.

>>51444932

I am in two minds over this. On the one hand, I do agree it would allow for that marvellous droid with a bad attitude.

On the other, if that is how it is supposed to work, why didn't FFG throw in a line in the crafting rules saying "After determining if the check was successful, do not cancel opposing advantages or disadvantages"?

>>51445086
Does FFG do rule clarification over twitter like WotC does?

Help I've been playing X wing for 2 weeks and I have already spent over $100 on it

>>51445164
This is fine. What have you gotten so far?

>>51445135

Not a clue. My Google-fu is weak, so haven't found any relevant FFG posts (forum, twitter, etc).

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>>51445164
Just wait until you start repainting it.

>>51445178
A wing, Starviper, Kirahzx, mist hunter and a shadow caster. I'm debating getting the hound's tooth as well

>>51445164
Now you've probably got enough shit to not need to buy anything for like a year though. I spent like $100 when I got into it and I've been making new lists every week without buying anything new for like two months.

>>51445204

I assume you also picked up a core set? From what I can see, with the exception of the A Wing you are headed for Scumville, which can be fun.

I've heard good things about the Hound's Tooth. Apparently needs an Engine Upgrade to help it reposition.

>>51445204
I'd say either get it or a Jumpmaster. You can do a nice Scum list with what you have and either of those.

>>51445217
I bought the a wing for push the limit really. I liked the model too since I display them.

>>51445216
The plan is to get 1 of at least every ship. I'm starting with scum since I have a friend who has rebel ships and another with an imperial fleet

Does anyone have a quick reference sheet for AoR?

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>>51444375
> be us
>transferring SAGA d20 to EoTE / AOR
> Most players transfer well
> ALL EU Canon
> Yuuzhan Vong War (year 4 and yes we've played all 5 years in game)

> Mando force user (gone rogue)
> Sherlock holmes / Dr Who Mrilsii Scientist
> Mando gunslinger
> NPC former Clone commando who was a cadet of the Mando force users father during the clone wars (Killed by Vong)
> Anzati Crime lord who just revealed his sith using force origins

> The entire game game the Anzati has threatened to eat the party if they dont do his bidding.
> Entire party is getting fed up with his bullshit.
> Mando force user mostly stays in his room
> Mando gunslinger uses his own ship
> Scientist has his own lab on lock down
> Anzati character is bored because he never gets to RP with anyone

>How can i save my campaign guys ?

>>51445371
Shoot the fucking azanti and have done. What the fuck were you thinking, allowing a character like that

>>51445221
Jumpmaster looks really good but I'm worried about the dial since I'm still a pretty bad pilot. Though I do want to pick up the mindlink guys, I feel like you can do a lot of cool things with them

>>51445371
Retire the PCs to be NPCs they can interact with later on if they're joust going to hide in their labs/rooms/ships and not do player things, start again as new up and comers.

>>51445423
Best way to get better at flying it is to fly it, my dude.

>>51445371
How do you even transfer things over?

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>>51445404
The player himself isnt bad, hes just really really in character when he plays because his character is a dick. mini story time

>be party
> tracking Vong for NRI
> get told to find the world of sanctuary for NRI
> party finds it
> Gets told to leave the planet.
> shrug.jpeg
>as the party heads back the anzati decides he wants a pet saber cat which is a local species .
> has the entire party ignore the NPCs request to leave the planet and gets them to go looking for this saber cat
> they find a entire den of saber cats.
> mando force users goes to pick a cub up and take it.
> anzati tells him he doesn't want that one and grabs another
>crit fail
> entire den wakes up as the saber cats see the party trying to take a cub
> Panic.run
> Entire party starts running back to the ship
> Mando force user uses his jet pack to escape
> sets the forest on fire and burns the world
> Everybody escapes but they are literally grounded by the locals from leaving for burning their holy forest
> Anzati goes into the cargo hold with his new pet and promo ply tells the rest of the party that his new pet needs to be groomed by his NPC bodyguards and thugs.
> Force Mando literally about loses his shit
> entire party banned for life from returning
> NRI is angry they didnt get any intell
> Anzati then gives wrong coordinates to the force using mando to have them return to coruscant instead of mandolore because LOLz

>>51445404
see above
>>51445452
they do the missions but on "rest time" between combat and missions they dont leave their rooms
>>51445491
LOTS of time and effort

>>51445508
Everything was fine until
>because LOLz

>>51445508
And I'm saying kill that fucking character because he is fucking everyone else over.
And "I'm being a game ruining cockbag but it's in character because I chose to make a character who's a game-ruining cockbag" ISN'T A FUCKING EXCUSE

>>51445135
FFG has a rules clarification page where you can submit a question and then - eventually - a dev will respond to you through e-mail. From a quick glance, it doesn't seem like FFG or some of the bigger devs do any responses over twitter.

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>>51445164
>>51445216
you made me look up how much it would cost to rebuy my collection on amazon, turns out i have $370 worth of plastic and card.
Been collecting for about a year and the more expensive stuff was gifts thankfully

>>51445638
Yeah, I've just sent them the question. I'll post the reply when I get it.

>>51445647
Still cheaper than magic. I'm >>51445164 and I got everything from trading two magic cards

>>51445508
Why the fuck would you allow such a powerful species in your group anyway? Having a vampire with zero weaknesses seems like a bad idea.

Is season 3 of Clone Wars the "we wanted to have these scenes in earlier seasons but didn't have the time or budget" season? Because first it was picking up before and after the rookies episode from season one and now it's back to the Ryloth arc and I'm getting kinda confused by where this stuff sits on the timeline.

>>51446433
Follow the viewing guide in the OP, famalam.

>>51446458
The viewing guide doesn't actually say anything to clear this up, it just says which episodes are better than others.

>>51446536
Well, it helps you keep your arcs together.

>>51446433
Yeah the timeline is really weird for a good chunk of the series.

>>51436102
Problem is you're taking a lot of this from Legends lore, which may not be completely true anymore.

Also I'd say it's kind of clear the shoretroopers are meant to be camouflaged troops, but then again it would be better to see if any canon source confirms it before definitely denying it.

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>>51445164
Now play Armada.
I've spent over 500 bucks on it and I still haven't bought it all.

>>51443777
most places I've found are fine with proxied cards outside tournament games.

especially if you say you're trying out a new list idea.

as for where to get the cards you should already have a crackshot from imperial veterans, inquisitors tie has guidance chips and tie phantom has fire control system.

In FFG, how would you handle a party of recurring antagonists? I thought about doing a group of Rivals but since they don't suffer critical injuries I figure they'd be too short lived.

On the flip side, wouldn't fighting a party of Nemeses be too hard?

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>>51446122
seemed like a ok idea at the time? i really dont know. It might be why the game has gone on hiatus

>>51446904
Not necessarily. You can have a group of enemies classified as Nemeses for the purpose of game mechanics but with Rival-level stats.

>>51445508
To quote Yathzee, "Purposedly annoying is still annoying".

He brought shit on himself wanting to play an asshole.

>>51446904
>how would you handle a party of recurring antagonists?
Depends on the type of campaign. If you're in a bounty hunter campaign it would be fairly easy to have a different group vying for the same bounties, but if you're caught attacking them directly your employers won't work with you anymore.

>>51446862
How does it compare to X wing?

>>51446961
More deliberate, more complicated, takes about twice as much space and time.

>>51446919
I don't know why I didn't think of this.

>>51446986
Not very convincing honestly. I think I'll just stick with X wing for the moment

>>51446961
Not near as fast or exciting as X-Wing. Still, it really pushes you to think ahead and try strategize your moves rather than just getting by reacting to what your enemy is doing.
If X-Wing is checkers, Armada is chess.

>>51444375
So how many Jedi are left at the ROTJ? Like realistically speaking Obi Wan and Yoda can't be the very last two of the old order Jedi right?

Worth picking up a single aggressor for casual play? Or are they just overpriced without running a pair?

>>51447126
Whether Ahsoka is dead is a bit up in the air, and Kanan and Ezra haven't been killed off yet, but they're the only living jedi-trained force users we've seen in canon. There are still non-jedi force users like Bendu, though.

>>51447126
In Legends, it was a scant handful of Jedi/Padawans who had been scattered here and there and didn't know about any other survivors until Luke started looking for them. Which isn't counting isolated Force traditions like Dathomir (which was militarily quarantined anyway)

In Canon, probably zero outside of Luke himself.

>>51447183

Kanan is gonna bite it soon, I promise you

The question is whether or not they kill Ezra

>>51447183
>>51447229
I mean this is speculative, but considering that there were thousands of Jedi before 66, shouldn't there be more in hiding. I mean Obi Wan and Yoda basically survived till the end of the empire and they're Bin Laden tier wanted.

>>51447459
I don't see how Kaminoans are relevant to the current discussion.

>>51447536
Maybe, but most of those jedi would have been at the temple on Coruscant or with clones, so it would've taken a whole lot of skill and luck. Assuming any jedi can get along as well as two masters or the padawan of space jesus seems like a mistake.

>>51447536
>thousands of Jedi before 66
Thousands is a very, very small number when you take into account the scale of the galaxy and Clone Wars. The GAR almost certainly massacred most of them in the opening salvo. Then you had nearly 20 years of the Empire running around without serious Rebel opposition or sentiments. That's almost 20 years of Vader, the Inquisition, and 501st hunting down the last stragglers.

>>51447433
Ezra's going to simply retire and leave being Jedi behind

>>51447630
Nah, he'll be chillin with Luke with tons of force ghosts.

>>51447133
now that there's an IG88 crew 1 aggressor in a list is a viable option.

>>51447433
>kanan dies of old age
>ezra is included in the episode VIII as part of the last jedi

>>51447126
Being one who prefers the old canon, I'd say a double handful active in the entire galaxy, and maybe a score more who are under cover so deep or far-flung that they effectively don't matter until maybe the NR era, when they *might* poke their heads out

>>51447604
>Assuming any jedi can get along as well as two masters or the padawan of space jesus seems like a mistake.
Their survival doesn't rely on their skills though, it relies on their isolation.
>>51447622
I guess yeah, it just seems like an insanely small number to be left down to

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>>51447126
For force-users in general? Its like imperial Whack-a-Mole, where new ones are born every year, in wildly different places, and the Empire has to constantly track them down and either kill them or indoctrinate them into the Inquisitorius. There are also many Force using traditions, and scholars interested in the Force, that are harshly persecuted by the Empire through a wide variety of means. Jedha from RO was considered the last major bastion of Force worship in the known galaxy, until Tarkin made Krennic feel insecure.

As for surviving members of the Jedi Order? One of the major complaints about the OT was always that it was really vague on why Luke was so important. You gotta remember, the whole prophecy thing hadn't been invented yet, so Obi-Wan and Yoda were just like "luke dude your the last hope except for leia or something"

Then the prequels happened, introduced the prophecy, and the next major complaint from fans were that too many Jedi survived order 66. Now we have NuCanon, and like most things in NuCanon, we just have to wait and see. It seems like all fully trained Jedi are dead, but you of course have several talented ex-apprentices like Kanan and Asohka.

>>51447822
>implying liberal use of force mind control isn't 50% or more for anyone who doesn't want to live eating snakes as the only sapient being on their moon

>no 28mm star wars skirmish game with well detailed miniatures
>star wars armada is too big for my taste and no clone wars ships

I just come here for high quality posts.

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>>51448035
And we're happy to provide them.

>>51447822
there are probably a few more old masters and padawans, who live on the outer rim as moisture farmers, but obi-wan and yoda cant contact them in anyway, and they would be unlikely to want to get involved in another war, those that did are probably dead or named kanan, so they would be unlikely to show up until they read on the holo net "It's all over, Empire Flees!"

they wouldnt poke their heads out of hiding until many years after RotJ, and I would like to think many of Lukes first teachers were survivors

there was probably at least one jedi who lived as a hermit yoda style, and did nothear about the fall of the empire until TFA, returns to the temple hoping to be greeted by the new jedi only to be stabbed by kylo

>>51448065
So whatever happened to Sheev's son Triclops?

Is there any pilot-type class that gets Melee as a Career/Spec skill? Bounty Hunter/Assassin gets both pilot skills and melee, but I want a piloting-related skill tree.

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>>51448105
He never escaped the Planet of Vaguely Canonical Characters who Everyone wants to Forget.

>>51447854

Speaking of Jedha, what exactly were Baze and Chirrut supposed to be? I heard it saying something about being guardians of the temple there. Chirrut certainly believed in the force and seemed to have *some* training, to act as well as he did without being able to see.

>>51448214
they are both the guardians of the whills, who used to take care the jedi temple before the dark times, before the empire
imwe believes in the force on a religious level, while baze has grown disillusioned with the it until the very end

What ever happened to Barris Offee?

Would it be cheesy to have her appear as a mentor if one of my players goes over to the Dark Side, shortly after the Battle of Yavin?

>>51448214
>what exactly were Baze and Chirrut supposed to be?
Thinly veiled pandering to the chinese movie audience and non-jedi force users because can't have a star wars movie without force users!

>>51448105
I think the Wook describes him as crashing the wedding of Han and Leia to rant like a crazy person before running off into the jungles of Yavin, never to be seen again.

>>51448214
>>51448238
The Whills was a concept Lucas had always meant to include if I recall correctly. A religious order that reveres the Force but doesn't learn to use it in the way that Jedi do.

>>51448288
she is either dead, an inquisitor, or a moisture farmer

>>51448313
no problem with that, the force is pretty integral to star wars

>>51448343
That's an interesting take on a Force religion.

>>51448363
I thought the guardian of the whills were really cool, nice to see non-jedi force users get respect
they also show of the more subtle aspects of the force, like in episode IV
I am one with the force, the force is with me

>>51448313
>Thinly veiled pandering to the chinese movie audience
In the same way Mace Windu was thinly-veiled pandering to black people.

>>51448313
One vague force user and a Hired Gun/Heavy with a Jury Rigged Light Repeater.

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>>51448406
>In the same way Mace Windu was thinly-veiled pandering to black people.

Ha ha, no, Jar-Jar was Lucas' idea of thinly-veiled pandering to black people.

Lucas is a little racist.

>>51448344
>the force is pretty integral to star wars
>Han Solo's flown from one side of the galaxy to the other and he's never seen anything to make him believe in the force
>but you literally cannot have a movie without it

>>51448406
No, I don't think Windu is on the same level as they are.

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>>51448288
I'm surprised she wasn't a high level inquisitor since she was a dark sider hailed by palpatine right before order 66. But it seems like they are moving away from that plot line in Rebels now so she may never show up.

As for having her in your games go for it. Best terrorist makes for an interesting NPC

>>51448468
She probably got killed during order 66 because muh rule of two.

>>51448468
*jailed

Fuck this is what I get for being a phoneposter faggot

>>51448395
My interpretation (which means nothing obv) is that the major thing the Guardians learn to do is listen well enough for the Force to act through them if it wants to.

>>51448464
>I call this one the "Why-Wing"

>>51448468
I think I will include her at some point then. I liked that she was "The Jedi are dumb," but wasn't a total edgelord about it. I don't think it would be a huge stretch for her to escape at some point before 66.

>>51448481
Palps has never given a fuck about the rule of two. See also the entire goddamn inquisition

>>51448466
>No, I don't think Windu is on the same level as they are.

Why?

>>51448466
>its true, all of it.
>the dark side, the jedi
i thought it was pretty touching, even someone as jaded as han solo can eventually believe in it

>>51448510
Windu was a jedi who happened to be black. They were on every level asian.

>>51448541
I'll give you Chirrut, sure (but his character was still pretty fun) but Baze? I guess I just don't see it.

Mind you I didn't like RO very much, but those two were the best part IMO

>>51448579
I preferred K2, even if I feel his personality was a bit too marvel movie for a hacked security droid.

>>51448598
I loved his personality, the dissonance was part of the charm

>>51448616
To be clear, I don't mean to say I didn't like his personality, I just feel they took the quips one small step past where I would have liked.

>>51448502
Inquisitors aren't Sith and don't break the rule of two.

>>51448645
Barris wouldn't have needed to be a Sith, could've been a Ventriss type.

>>51448638
the idea of imperial killbot who makes sarcastic comments was right up my alley, so i guess i might be biased to liking that part of him

>>51448502
Palps was pretty tough on Dooku when it came to Ventress, so he did care, he's just a loopholes kind of dude when it comes to inquisitors.

>>51448656
Wasn't the whole reason Ventriss got into shit was that Sheev didn't like that Dooku was training her in Sith arts and, by extension, breaking the rule of two?

>>51448679
Sheev let it run for a while, I imagine if he wanted his own not-apprentice but not-Inquisitor type minion, he would have no compunctions about it.

The Rule of Two is just a thing Sith Masters use to prevent their apprentices challenging them via gang-up. They ignore it when it's convenient, and enforce it when it's convenient.

>>51448721
Naw, he stuck to it pretty well, himself. Clean transitions from Maul to Dooku to Vader, he just let Dooku run it a little fast and loose for a while.

>>51448721
Is The Force Unleashed protagonist still canon?

>>51448789
No.

>>51448778
He also has Inquisitors but they don't count because dark side =/= Sith, a distinction I always found kind of lame.

>>51448679
No, it was more that he didn't want Dooku to establish a powerbase to properly challenge his authority and take over from him.

>>51448842
I mean, that's part of the reasoning behind the rule of two. Your apprentice shouldn't kill you because they had help, they should kill you because they've become stronger than you.

>>51448830
My guess would be he only lets them learn how to fly, but not all the really cool shit like creating life.

>>51448464
>Ha ha, no, Jar-Jar was Lucas' idea of thinly-veiled pandering to black people.

Holy shit.

That makes so much sense now.

>>51448857
>dark side is all about emotion
>but you're not allowed to succeed through the powers of friendship and love
Seems to me like there's some chains that still need breaking, desu.

>>51448502

He came down hard on Maul and Savage, I think even bringing up the rule of two as they fought.

>>51448885
By that point Maul was no longer his apprentice, though, he was a competing master. Also, Maul was pretty adamant about the rule of two on his own, demanding that he be the master and savage be the apprentice.

>>51448883
We still don't know if using positive emotions for power is

1. Even possible
2. Dark or Light Side, maybe even both

>>51448963
I get the feeling that the fight would have gone a lot differently if one of Windu's team had parked outside Palps' window in a starfighter loaded with torpedoes.

>>51448963
Giggled

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>>51448956
It's definitely Light Side.

Darth Vader was redeemed by the love of his son. Love - an emotion the Jedi all but forbid - somehow saved rather than damned their last hope? Why? How? This event would have been incomprehensible to them.

And hope, as well. Hope is something Kenobi and Yoda have all but forgotten until Luke arrives in their lives.

Positive emotions are part of the Light Side, but in fear of the Dark, the Jedi turned away from them, and slowly sealed their own doom. Detachment became arrogance. Serenity became indifference. Peace became stability, at any cost.

Those ideals died with Yoda. Luke clearly follows a different path.

>>51449014
>Darth Vader was redeemed
He started on a path to redemption, sure. But saving your son isn't such a good act that it makes up for killing as many people as Vader killed.

>>51449028
Redemption =/= atonement

>>51449028
it would overly cynical to believe that darth vader is completely beyond redemption
since believing that would not have lead to his redemption in the the first place, and there is a clear line between vader, who can be redeemed, and sheev, who decidedly cannot

>>51449028
>morality in star wars works the same as my view on morality
Maybe he confessed real quick and force Jesus forgave him so he gets to go to force heaven.

>>51449014
>Positive emotions are part of the Light Side

Yes, but I'm talking about power specifically. Yoda was exceptionally powerful, while still detaching himself from all (strong) emotion.

>>51449046

If Vader can be, why not Palpatine? How is one farther gone than the other?

>>51449046
I don't mean to imply that Vader couldn't be redeemed. He just died before he really got a chance to.

What are the odds of a clone wars expansion for X-wing? The old trilogy doesn't work for me.

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>>51449077
Palpatine didn't want redemption and gave zero shits. He fucking loved his job.

>>51449077
Vader had conflict and personal anguish since before he turned: it doesn't appear that Sheev has the same compunctions.

>>51449061
my guess is that overcoming 20 years of domination and control by sheev is an incredibly difficult task
and it wasnt just a quick confession, he was conflicted as early as ESB, and luke constantly points out that there is conflict within him the whole time, and vader is clearly wrestling with his feelings, and the final act he did was him finally remembering that he was once anakin skywalker, and that he has done terrible things before but he can at least do one last good dead before he dies

just because some one has stumbled doesnt mean that they have lost their way, luke knew vader was once a good man, and he could feel that good inside him trapped by the dark side

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>>51449075
In the OT, he's strong, but he's an old hermit living in a swamp, hunted and alone, with no influence over the galaxy.

In the Prequels, he damns the entire Jedi order.

So... clearly it's not all about the power.

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>>51449101
Exactly. Sheev got EVERYTHING he wanted, right up until the point something so foreign to his ideology happened that he couldn't react.

Both the Sith and the Jedi have no explanation for what happened between Luke and Vader.

Vader protected the weak at the expense of the strong, even at the cost of his own life. What Sith could accept that?

And he did it out of love, out of a deep personal connection to his son. The Jedi would be baffled.

>>51448877
All of his mannerisms and speech patterns are just based on old minstrel show stereotypes from the 50s.

Lucas got real racist in Phantom Menace.

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>>51449138
>The Jedi would be baffled.
You see this shit? This shit right here is why Odan-Urr deserved to be sacked. Fucking Odan-Urr ruining everything for everyone. He was the OJO's That Guy.

>>51449138
the PT jedi were deeply flawed and misunderstood the intent of their beliefs

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>>51449155
Jesus. Imagine being Ahmed Best. You've just been cast in a Star Wars movie. You were born in '73. You grew up with these films. And you get to work with motion capture stuff - the latest and the greatest tech from ILM.

And then you see the script.

And George keeps referring to you as "Achmed" or "Jar-Jar".

And he keeps telling you "no, no, more squeaky. More ethnic."

Jesus...

>>51449098
I think that depends on how much money FFG makes. They might even do a Kickstarter.

>>51449113
>So... clearly it's not all about the power.

Yes, but I'm talking about power specifically. You can't, as far as I've seen, make a lightning bolt out of hope or enhance your saber skills with love. Even Luke was only able to beat his dad by getting really angry. And if people were able to do that, I'm still not sure what side of the Force that would fall under.

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>>51449241
And did not examine them during the OT, at least, not significantly.
>>51449220

I have no idea who this guy is. Doesn't really matter though - the films provide plenty of info. No need to branch out into the EU.

>>51449257
>And if people were able to do that, I'm still not sure what side of the Force that would fall under.
The dark side. But using the dark side in moderation is something which a lot of Jedi manage just fine, it's about not letting it consume you and making sure to adhere to the light side as much as possible.

>>51449304
He's literally "muh gray jedi."

>>51449304
>I have no idea who this guy is. Doesn't really matter though - the films provide plenty of info. No need to branch out into the EU.
You should really play KotOR.

>>51449319
>"muh gray jedi."
A Gray Jedi who isn't edgy, unlike all the other tryhard wannabes. He's just an old man who understands that it's okay to have a waifu.

>>51449257
>You can't, as far as I've seen, make a lightning bolt out of hope or enhance your saber skills with love.

Hrm, wars not make one great.

Power is not the ability to kill or to harm. Power is the ability to change the universe to suit your will. If that will is "I want all those guys over there to die", then yes, anger-powered lightning is very good. Or the Death Star - that's a good example.

But Luke changed the universe with love. The technological terrors, the lightsabers, the cackling... turns out, they weren't very powerful at all.

Looks, it's a fucking Christian allegory, do I have to spell it out for you?

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>>51449337
I might give it a try, but I'm kind of leery of digging to deep into canon, considering I'm running a game that almost completely ignores it.

It's so relaxing. You can tell a much better story.

>>51448956
I'd call positive emotions for power "dark side" but dark side doesn't necessarily mean evil it just means inward looking/channeling your emotions. A true "grey jedi" isn't some faggot edgelord who uses lightning it's recognizing you can have emotions and even use them as a part of the force but not losing sight of the wider world and your obligations to others

>>51449353
He's a deluded fool who tells the player they can have the force lightning and still get the good ending, and they can because literally only one choice matters in the entire game.

>>51449384
I just think you should play it because it's a good game. It's also about the OLD Republic so it can't really influence your games massively.

>>51449386
>The 800000 times you can choose to murder people don't matter

>>51449402
They literally do not. At all.

>>51449386
Making Force Lightning a thing people who aren't Palpatine can use was a mistake from the start, blame George.

Going into an X-Wing tournament tomorrow, what's a good Rebels list to bring into an unknown meta? I can run pretty much anything but duplicates; I've only bought one of each ship except ARCs.

>>51449360
people are so impressed by the darksides cheap tricks, they forget the light side is what eventually won

>>51448035
>no 28mm star wars skirmish game with well detailed miniatures
What's wrong with Imperial Assault?

>>51449414
It matter to those people. In fact you could argue it was one of the most important parts of their lives

>>51449414
To be fair, most of those kills are in self-defense. What the hell else are you going to do when Mandalorians, bounty hunters, and saber-toting chaps in black pajamas are bearing down on your tender Jedi asshole?

>>51449476
>Darth Revan
>Jedi

>>51449220
>>51449337
>>51449353
>>51449386
>>51449400
Holy tits, this reminds me that I actually own KotOR on disc. When I bought it a billion years ago my computer couldn't run it and I completely forgot about it. Guess I'm spending the next few hours digging through my old stuff to find it.

>>51449098
I'd love to see one too but I'm not sure how the system could really handle effectively two more factions with even more overlapping ships in each role.

>>51449098
I want a Rouge one expansion for X-wings to make the titular ship top dog for once

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>>51449423
I think the entire idea of "Force Powers" is bad.

They aren't spells. They aren't secret techniques.

The Force can be used to do... Force things. Influence the mind. Walk through a killing field unharmed. See the future, or a possible future. Lift an object. Block a blaster shot. Do what is needed at the time.

Training does not consist of learning magic words. It consists of learning things about yourself, and the Force. Luke is a poor student because he doubts. He falters. He fears. The X-wing is too heavy for him because he /thinks/ of it as heavy. But to tiny little Yoda, it doesn't way anything. All of Luke's training is designed to make him forget the mundane world and accept the mystic. It's why Yoda kept tiring him out. Exhausted people are more willing to accept the truth.

Making the Force like unlockable nodes you level up in is a video game convention and a lousy one. It de-mystifies the entire concept.

So sure, if Luke hated something enough, if he gave into his hate fully, perhaps he could manifest it via lightning. Vader chokes the life out of people, but the Emperor likes to make them suffer and writhe.

>>51449499
If you can't find you disk it's on steam and it's been adapted for mobile devices.

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>>51449513
>make the titular ship top dog for once
>Rogue One, which only half-assedly used X-wings
Fuck that noise. Bacta War box with PS10 Wedge when?

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>>51449451
People are so obsessed with the Jedi, they forget the Jedi eventually lost. Their ideas were flawed. They failed time and time again.

Playing a Jedi in a game isn't some pinnacle of awesome. It's a tragedy.

>>51449513
>Rouge One
Garven Dreis is looking fabulous.

>>51449471
Kek

>>51449155
Worst part is?

If it was a deliberate attempt at mimicking older media like the OT was basically Flash Gordon, it wold have been amazing.

>>51449535
Is that supposed to be Wraith Squadron on the left?

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>>51449471
Ah, but see, Star Wars is Space Opera.

In Opera, you're either the Cast or the Chorus.

And nobody gives a fuck about the Chorus.

>>51449528
I think the issue is that most of the EU was built up by videogames and tabletop RPGs, which need that granularity.

>>51449573
No, that image was before the Wraiths. Left side are the Bacta War Rogues with their custom paint jobs. Right side are the fake Rogues led by Hobbie and Wes.

>>51449098

Unlikely. FFG is not interested in the prequel era normally - best you'll get is more ships like the ARC brought in as units for extant factions.

>>51449581
>Characters not being key players means that killing them has no moral consequences

t. Sith Lord

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>>51449539
we aspire to be like luke, the best jedi of all, and he embodied the best of what the jedi had to offer

when we play jedi, we want to be luke, the farmboy who saves the galaxy

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>>51449568
Captain America once had a gang of young sidekicks.

The black one was called Whitewash.

No joke. You can look this up. Believe me, this makes /pol/ look progressive.

Anyway, if that's what George was going for here... he can go fuck right off. Imitating the style and the storytelling of Flash Gordon is fine. Imitate things outside of that and you'll end up missing the point.

>>51449603
If they have no consequence in a vidya they have no consequence whatsoever. You could dark side you way though the whole game but if you decided to go light side at the end with Bastila you got the light side ending.

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>>51449589
Which is why I'd encourage ditching it completely if you're running a game.

Start from scratch. It's much more fun.

No need to worry about what a Mandalorian is, or if "Darth" is a first name or a title. Just go with what makes sense to you. Fill in the gaps as needed. Invent a dozen races per game.

>>51449589
>>51449528

Yeah, games need to gamify things a little so they can work in constraints. Noninteractive tended to treat them more broadly as techniques which require focus and discipline and knowledge to learn. Some techniques were simple, others were lost to time - some people had affinity for abilities that others did not.

>>51449619
There's an alternate universe right now where George somehow made Ep1 a commentary on race relations by making it look like a 20's blackface show, and Ahmed became an Oscar darling.

And we had to live in this shitty world.

>>51449645
Then why the fuck would you even use this setting if you're going to ignore 90% of it including the canon? After all, Dooku and Talzin could force lightning, too.

>>51449681
just go with what you see in the movies, dont think too hard about the small details

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>>51449681
Because the 10% that's left is still very, very interesting.

And heck, in your games, you can keep 90% of canon.

But think about why you're keeping it. Is it good storytelling? Is it thematic? Does it improve the game, or does it just add cruft and ten thousand protagonists?

>>51449645
How do you let player Jedi use powers in a mechanical manner without making those arbitrary power distinctions though?

Also my players asked me to run Star Wars because they like the Star Wars universe. They don't want my OC Donut Steel setting based loosely on Star Wars, they want Star Wars.

>>51449699
>>51449705
>dont think too hard about the small details
>but I get mad about the small details like how a force user goes about training to make the force into lightning

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>>51449646
Right, but that still misses the point a bit.

Techniques, levels, powers, etc... they don't exist, in the films.

Luke chokes out people because he /wants/ to. He didn't study a holocron or some shit that said "here's how to choke a guy with your mind."

He called on the Force, and because he is strong with the Force, and he trusts in the Force, what he wanted happened.

You do not get more powerful in the Force by learning. You get more powerful by understanding - and mostly, by understanding yourself. Yoda's wisdom isn't about lightsaber forms. It's about letting go of your doubts, your human fragility.

Do, or do no, there is no try. Doing something with the Force does not require effort, if you understand what it is you are trying to do. The effort comes from overcoming your own doubts and hesitation. The X-wing weighs nothing at all. Only in your mind is there weight.

>>51449723
Sometimes, when I'm high, I think about using the DND5e rules to run SW games. And while I'm thinking that, I think: "If I keep the Force mysterious like it was in the OT, really Magic Initiate and Lucky feats perfectly cover the majority of Force shit. General super-aptitude and the ability to sway fate.

But that's crazy.

What's the general consensus on Mandalorians?

Cool?

Boring?

Something else?

>>51449738
Are you by chance autistic?
Everyone here knows what you're saying but no one really gives enough of a fuck to complain about it being adapted to a system that's meant to be played as a game.

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>>51449723
Ah, see, that's tricky.

First, you need a very rules-light system.

Second, you need, as the GM, to understand what you want the Force to be able to do.

Third, you have to discourage players from starting as PCs who are strong and confident in the Force.

In the attached hack for Fate Core, I dealt with it this way:

>The Force skill is a very unusual skill. There are very few limits on what you can do with it, but here are a few ideas.

>Overcome: Move something. Reach out to another living being. Sense something you can’t see. Do something impossible.

>Create Advantage: Add an Aspect that makes it easier to trick, dominate, or calm someone. Alter your environment.

>Attack: Hurt someone directly. Throw something at them.

>Defend: Block blaster fire or walk through it unharmed.

>What else? Well, whatever you think is thematically appropriate. Remember that the Force is a mysterious, mystical part of the setting and not a source of definitive powers.

>>51449743
>Magic Initiate
That's because even the most bad ass force users would get chewed up and spat out by the fifth level wizard. Refluff cantrips and first level spells and you're basically done with everything the force has to offer outside tossing around really heavy shit.

>>51449751
Had the potential to be good at one point, now that every two bit hack has had their way with them they're just overdone.

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>>51449760

>Rating: Most characters should have this skill at +0. At +1, you are vaguely sensitive to the Force. You might not know it though. At +2, you are aware of your connection to the Force, and if you aren’t careful, others will be as well. At +3, you are strong in the Force, and you have trained and practiced your abilities. Others are aware of your abilities and seek to destroy or use you. You are under constant threat.
At +4 or higher, you are both trained, confident, and powerful. Others are urgently aware of your abilities. You are in immediate danger almost everywhere you go.

>Stunts: Characters with a +1 or higher in Force automatically gain the “Dark Side of the Force” Stunt, replacing one of their existing Stunts.

>Dark Side of the Force: Gain +2 to Force when you act out of fear, anger, or hatred.

>Other Stunts could give you a bonus to certain uses of the Force, or let you use it instead of other skills such as Deceive or Empathy. Try to keep these vague and thematic as well. Remember, using the Force attracts attention, and is potentially quite dangerous.

And there you have it. That's it.

It's deliberately vague and very open-ended, but it works perfectly so far. It might not work for everyone but... well, you did ask how I'd do it.

>>51449751
They're great when you look at them as a culture of proud warrior maniacs riding around on heavy metal album covers doing their own thing and occasionally interacting/clashing with the rest of the Galaxy. Basically Australia/New Zealand

When they're treated as being deep and meaningful or morally superior to the Jedi or whatever Traviss did with them, then yeah, they get annoying real fast.

>>51449760
Your system seems fine but why god why did you make the backgrounds a flat grey gradient?

Even plain white would have been miles better.

>>51449776
>That's because even the most bad ass force users would get chewed up and spat out by the fifth level wizard. Refluff cantrips and first level spells and you're basically done with everything the force has to offer outside tossing around really heavy shit.
I didn't mean that like "hurr durr jedi suck" or anything. I meant that when I really think about it, if I could remove all other forms of magic from that system, I could make Jedi using only two feats and maybe a few ribbon abilities to sense things. Like, I'm excited about trying.

Downside is that 5e is 99% spellcasters. So unless I got a dozen mundane classes in my asshole I can pull out, it ain't happening.

>>51449754
>posts a well-worded, thoughtful comment
>hurr durr autism

>>51449787
>Beebee-ate
This still fucks with me every time I see it. Artoo and Threepio look like cute nicknames, this is just an obnoxious way of typing out something phonetically when it has no need to be.

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>>51449754
Nope, I'm afraid not.

Look, you can do what you like with the Force. You can make it very granular and mechanical if that's what you want to do.

But, from a thematic point of view, I think that you're missing out if you do.

It's not just about the mechanics. It's what they imply about the setting.

>>51449797
>I didn't mean that like "hurr durr jedi suck" or anything.
Neither did I. D&D is just D&D.

>>51449808
All the mechanics imply is how to play a game.
That you refuse to see that is a clear indication of assburgers.

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>>51449751
Has the potential to be extremely cool if handled by a good writer who knows his heavy metal album covers and to not Mandowank too hard.

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>>51449791
I actually like the gray-dient for reading on a screen. For printed copies, I use flat white.

White copy attached, just for you.

I think Force and Destiny (and the other FFG games) strike a fine balance with The Force. It's discrete powers, but they're expanded on enough to be super broad and open ended, and each power is a talent tree of its own, rather than just a spell you get. The Force dice system also works very well to mechanically represent the pull of the dark side.

FATE and other super-narrativist systems have a place, but not everyone likes that level of vagueness.

>>51449816
Fair, but it's always been pretty modifiable. You talking about caster power or something?

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>>51449821
>All the mechanics imply is how to play a game.

Come on, anon, you know that's not true. And no need to get snippy here. This is /tg/. Be nice.

A game with a very clear system of valuable items, granular weapons, a hundred types of ammo, rules for cleats, and special min-maxy combinations of all of the above is going to feel very different than a game with the generic "Wealth" skill, or where guns let you do "Gun Things".

Theory of games, my friend.

>>51449808
>It's not just about the mechanics. It's what they imply about the setting.
You're retarded. Nobody in their right mind gets into an argument about batman vs superman and cites Injustice: Gods Among Us to reference their power levels. Game mechanics mean literally one thing; how the game works. They do not and have never meant how the setting works. Do you think the lore of Elder Scrolls is full of criminal vagrants who become the leader of every faction in under a week or something?

>>51449846
>You talking about caster power or something?
Yes.

>>51449829
Thanks. I doubt I'd use this (my group loves EotE) but as a fellow FATE dork I appreciate the work you've done. I really like the starship generation, it's simple but pretty thematic.

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>>51449862
> Do you think the lore of Elder Scrolls is full of criminal vagrants who become the leader of every faction in under a week or something?

Of course not.

So clearly, the mechanics of the game do not match the story as intended.

For video games, this is fairly forgivable. You've got a very limited design space. Some games marry mechanics to gameplay very well, but they're usually weird indie storygame thing that are more like interactive novels, so it's not relevant here.

But if you were running a tabletop Elder Scrolls game, and the rules allowed a player to go from vagrant to Archmage in 24hrs of in-game time...

You might question what those mechanics imply.

The mechanics of a game system you chose /will/ dictate parts of your story. They set limits on what is possible. They shape the type of characters you can generate. They guide you down certain paths.

And that's not a big deal, but you should be aware of it.

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>>51449886
Thanks. Here's the character sheet.

And who knows? Maybe they'll want to move over if there's some frustrating mechanic of EoTE that's getting on their nerves.

>>51449925
>You might question what those mechanics imply.
Only if you're a fucking idiot. Like you.

>>51449862
>Yes
Fair, sort of. 5e doesn't assume magic items in its math, and casters are much weaker overall this edition. If I only allowed the feats and some small flavor stuff to simulate Jedi, and left the rest mundane, I think it could work.

>>51449925
As far as I know there's nothing hardcoded in AoR to stop my GM from handing out hundreds of duty after the first, and instantly boosting me to grand wizard of the rebellion. What does that imply about the setting? Nothing, it would imply that my GM was a nincompoop.

>>51449471
I've read that before...
Was is in a book from terry pratchett?

>>51449960
5e does an okay job balancing the math of a class's damage vs a single enemy with no magical protections, but casters leave non-casters in the dust when it comes to utility on and off the battlefield. At the end of the day, though, that's neither here nor there in a Star Wars thread.

What is it about 5e that attracts people to try to run EVERY setting in it?

There's a dude who adamantly insists that 5e is the best system for mecha games in every mecha thread, and now we have a dude talking about using it for Star Wars.

>>51450033
Unified mechanics, simple rules, very familiar. Cut out the character specific crap like class, race, and spells, and you're looking at ~30 pages of rules including pictures.

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>>51449956
Ow.
>>51449965
Well, no, but that's not quite what I meant...

Imagine you have three systems.

System 1 lists a price in Credits along every item of gear, and there are hundreds of items in each book. The implication is that currency matters in this game. You will be expected to track it. You will be expected to buy and sell items and account for these costs. This is an important enough item that it's written right into the game.

System 2 gives still has the same gear list, but instead of credits, each item has a Reputation Difficulty. In this game, credits aren't important. You aren't expected to track or acquire them - or if you do, it's just an an incidental side-project. The real arbiter of gear is your Reputation. Build that up, and you'll get what you need. That's an important mechanic, and it's an abstract one.

System 3 doesn't have a gear list at all. Gear is defined as "X lets you do X things." A lightsaber lets you do lightsaber things, a blaster lets you do blaster things, lockpicks let you do lockpick things, etc. Gear has no other mechanical effects. You can acquire gear "when you would reasonably be able to acquire it".

The implication is that gear, rather than a mechanic, is an enabler of the story. You /could/ have a character who carries around thirty rifles at all times. Rather than dealing with the cost of the rifles or the Reputation he needed to get them, System 3 says "Ok, cool, you have them. What does this do for the story?"

So in System 1, you might have a character who carefully minmaxes their starting items and traits to get the best gear for the least cost. In System 2, you might have a character perform reputation-boosting deeds just to get access to an item they want. In System 3, it's clear that your character's items should be dictated by story conventions, not by mechanics.

These lead to very, very different games. And I'm not saying any one system is better than another here.

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>>51449886
Also, for ship design, we used these worksheets. It's a lot of fun.

Each player gets a sheet and circles a shape. You then take them and mash them together to get the outline or features of your ship. Instant Star Wars-esque vehicles!

>>51450059
So cut out all the actual character creation content?

>>51450068
While I think the minmaxing is a real threat, if your group is good and it suits the story you want to tell, the granularity can be valuable.

Especially in scrappy games like Edge of the Empire, where you're a bunch of criminals trying to eke out a living doing dangerous shit, having money matter can create real drama. For example, I have a player who has a character with a hardcore Lesai addiction. And Lesai is EXPENSIVE in EotE. So he's taking on more and more dangerous missions without bothering to vet them properly just so he can get enough money to fuel the habit, which is creating great stories, and putting realistic, interesting strain on party relations.

It also makes losing gear feel that much more impactful; you aren't getting back that fancy modded blaster quick, it'll take some earning.

I mean, these are themes you can hit on with a more narrative system but the handling would be very different.

>>51450090
You only need to know the elf shit if someone plays an elf. You only need to know the rogue shit if someone plays a rogue. You only need to know a specific spell if someone knows the spell, unless, of course, you're the GM.

Compared to AoR, the Conflict and Combat chapter alone is about 25 pages including pictures, and that's cutting out way more than character creation. I'm not saying more rules makes a better or worse game than less rules, people just think 5e is good for anything because the rules are simple and seem like you can plug them into almost any situation.

>>51449497
>Revan
>Sith

As much as SWTOR shits on lore, I will forever cherish one of the things he says when you fight him.

>I was sith. I AM jedi!

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>>51450087
It's how we ended up with W4-ND4

W4ND4 is... not a very good ship.

Aspects:
High Concept: A Ship of Many Parts
Trouble: Creature Discomforts
History: Veteran of the Clone Wars

Stunts:
Sensor Towers: +2 to Notice when Scanning for Dangerous Things
Retrothrusters Everwhere: When using Pilot to Create Advantage, gain an extra free invoke on the Aspect created
Starship of Theseus's Drunk Uncle: No matter where you go in the galaxy, you will be able to find spare parts if the local tech base is high enough.

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>>51450182
Too bad it's impossible to take him seriously with that fucking hair.

I wish there was an X wing game with clone wars miniatures. The ARC 170 made me really happy

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>>51450220
Still a work in progress.
>>51450163
Again, I'm not saying any one system is better than the others. I'm just saying that the mechanics have an effect on the story you can tell with them.

And absolutely, in the situation you've described, the mechanics of wealth management have a /positive/ effect on the story. That's excellent!

>>51450264
>mechanics have an effect on the story
Yeah, but not the fucking lore of the setting.

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>>51450242
Shapeways, anon. They can 3D print almost anything these days.

>>51450278
Don't waste time arguing when autism speaks.

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>>51450278
In the case of wealth, no.

But in the case of the Force, yes. If the mechanics change how your PCs think about the Force, then they are having an effect on the lore.

If the lore says "Wizards can intuitively cast any spell" and the mechanics say "Wizards read books and memorize spells, slowly learning more difficult ones as they find books and scrolls", your players are going to ignore the first bit and concentrate on the lore created by the mechanics.

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>>51450287

>>51450310
> If the mechanics change how your PCs think about the Force
>an out of character thing like mechanics
>affecting the thoughts of the character
I found your problem, lad.

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>>51450287
If everyone did that this place would close down overnight.

>>51450325
Well if the Force in character is a vague nebulous power which isn't divided into discrete uses, but the mechanics clearly set out the difference between Force Push, Mind Trick, Force Lightning and etc, how do you reconcile that divide without the lore changing?

I mean I think the dude's kind of pushing his FATE shit a bit hard but he has some sort of point here.

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>>51450325
Ok, here's another example.

Your cheap knock-off book says "The A-Wing is the fastest ship the Rebellion has." That's lore.

The mechanics give the A-Wing a speed of 10 units per turn. They give a garbage barge a speed of 20 units per turn. That's mechanics.

Despite what the lore says, the A-Wing is, according to the mechanics, incredibly slow. Hilariously slow, in fact.

So assuming you don't rewrite the rules, how do you deal with a situation where a player has his PC take the garbage scow when escaping yet another exploding superweapon, because the A-wing is "too slow"? The actions make perfect mechanical sense, but they don't fit the lore at all. Does the PC "know" A-wings are too slow because the mechanics are supposed to match the universe, or does he "know" they are fast, because the lore says so, even if it contradicts the game's mechanics?

And yes, this is a stupid, over the top example, but I hope it's making things more clear.

Mechanics do affect the nature of the story being told.

>>51450345
The problem with that is that it isn't really THAT vague a nebulous power. In the Ahsoka book she talks about how certain parts of the force come more naturally to others in regards to a child who has a force-enhanced ability to sense dancer.

Did the character who knows force push and no others force skills go to force push school where he trained for ten years in the force push discipline? No, they're just the sort of dude who finds it's the best way to harness the force in regards to their personality and physical fighting style.

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>>51450345
It's more of a meta-RPG concept.

If you want to tell a sweeping, epic story about high-concept heroes who speak in catchphrases and don't think very hard about anything... don't pick a system with thirty pages of rules for boots.

If you want to play a game about survivors in a post-apocalpytic wasteland scrounging for food and clean water, where finding a tin of cat food has a major effect on the group, don't pick a system where starvation, cold, fear, and panic are completely ignored.

See: >>51450163 for a great example. Use mechanics as a tool in any game you run.

>>51450407
>dancer
Danger, I'm sorry.

>>51449829
Reading through this, I'd personally cut down the ship creation to one good and one bad, the Falcon is a smuggler's ship and is shown to have onboard amenities, however basic they were.

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>>51450516
The "good, bad, extremely bad" list doesn't have a mechanical effect. It can be used to generate the Aspects and Stunts, and it adds flavor.

Plus, it implies that the PCs are starting with a real lemon or rustbucket of a ship, which is thematically excellent.

Would anyone recommend some stats for the Gen'dai (Durge's race) as a recurring threat for edge of the empire

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>>51450407
This. I really don't understand the autists who complain about force powers. Their arguments make literally no sense and amount to "muh headcanon".

>>51450882
High brawn because of their strenght and regeneration and high intelligence because they can live 4000 to 7000 years.

>>51450882
Do you want them to be in armour 24/7? If so, just stat them like anyone else. Maybe give them a few ranks in the talent which reduces crit rolls?

>>51450382
Your example doesnt really make sense. I couldn't imagine anyone playing a game where an Awing is slower than a garbage trawler. Those that did would assume it was a mistake and switch the speeds around anyway.

>>51450882
>seemingly immortal, formless
This is not a good idea. Your party will hate you for putting them on a railroad with an enemy they can't do anything about.

>>51450888
Mechanical disconnect from how the force was portrayed in the film, but Star Wars is full of disconnects anyhow. Games make the force look like a discrete list of powers that you can choose from rather than the mystical open-ended space magic seen in the OT.

>>51450882
Use a less brokenly powerful race, Gen'dai aren't even that interesting really, there are many more things that can make an Edge party shit themselves. Like a well built Assassin Droid.

>>51450978
What is gameplay and story segregation? Even still you are not going to convince that even in the OT the Jedi didn't have names for different applications of the force. Jedi mind trick was mentioned in the OT was it not? How could Jedi teach their apprentices the different applications of the force without names?

>>51450882
Fucking Obi-wan himself had trouble with a Gen'dai. What hope does the shitters in your group fighting one?

>>51450978
Yoda teaches Luke how to move things with his mind. Once he knows he can move things with his mind he can. However, that's really the extent of his overt powers. Only later on does he teach himself to mind trick, which he probably only knew he could learn to do because he saw old Ben do it. Luke wasn't blocking blaster bolts with his mind just because it was convenient like Vader could even when he was a self-stylized Jedi Knight because he hadn't learned he could do that.

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>>51451045
To be fair, the "Jedi mind-trick" was mentioned in the same way you might say "Japanese pen-spinning trick", like there's a broad class of mind-fuckery Jedi do, and the whole "give you a suggestion thing" is one of their old chestnuts. Most people fall for it, but Jabba's seen a thing or two in his day.

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>>51450978
You have to be an idiot if you don't think that the force in the OT had different "techniques". You forget that the jedi were based on Samurai monks and the force is like a magical martial art. Common sense dictates that there would be different "moves" and applications of the force.

>>51451088
>I'm a toydarian, mind tricks don't work on me

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>>51451061
This also explains why Rey picks up on all the Jedi stuff pretty much immediately.

Luke is a skeptic. Rey is a fanatic. She /believes/ really, really hard. And once she finds out it's true, and that it really works, it's only a matter of opening her mind and actually giving it a try. To her, it comes easily. Luke had to struggle. He had to un-learn that he /couldn't/ stop blaster bolts with just a wave of his hand.

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>>51451117
Yeah, prequels stuff is different. And has midi-chlorians in it. Outside of the OT, with the "benefit" of years of video games and RPGs informing the EU, canon settled on discreet powers.

Plus, again, mind tricks. Not even Jedi mind tricks. Not even "that one mind trick Jedi do".

Seems like there's a spectrum of options.

>>51451130
Or she is just a shitty mary sue since she also became an expert at lightsaber combat in 2 mins.

>>51451130
Wow, you've actually made Rey a much better character for me. Kudos.

>>51451130
No, nothing explains Rey's force aptitude other than womyn stronk heavily supplemented by Bravo JJ. Anakin literally dreams of being a jedi as a boy and the best he can do is light precognition to augment reflexes, and he's LITERALLY space Jesus born of midi-chlorians.

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>>51451117
Also:

>>51449155
>>51448877
>>51448464

If Jar-Jar is Lucas' idea of a black person... is Watto supposed to be Jewish or some Egyptian street-hawker or something?

>>51451163
She beat a severely wounded, emotionally traumatised Jedi with incomplete training, after spending her entire life training to fight with a stick for self defence.

Not that unrealistic, especially with the Force being the perfect Deus Ex Machina to make characters competent.

>>51451117
>be junk dealer
>some faggot wants a T-14 hyperdrive generator
>tries to pay with Republic credits
>internally triple price
>tries some mind trick bullshit
>sextuple price
>laugh in his face

>>51451157
Yeah Jedi were understood to be able to mentally suggest weak willed beings to do things. The sith version was the ability to forcefully mind control sentient beings

>>51451200
Watto's definitely meant to be Jewish. Between the personality and the nose it's pretty clear.

And then there's neimoidians which are kind of obvious.

>>51451202
Fighting with a staff isn't the same as fighting with a sword let alone a weightless lightsaber.

>>51451163
>>51451188 is me, go back and watch the fight scene. Her lightsaber skills are poop.

>>51451200
Jewish, obviously. Just look at his nose.

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>>51451163
>>51451188
There are out-of-story reasons for it too, of course. But I'd like to give the writers slightly more credit.

The whole prequel arc kind of botched the Space Jesus thing pretty hard. Let's just skip that bit.

Also, yeah, I get that it's trendy to shit all over TFA and Rey. Can we... not? For just one thread? Can we try and focus on some of the interesting aspects and not bring up the same buzzwords over and over again?

>>51451179
Yeah. I think "The Force Awakens" was not a coincidental title.

Both Rogue One and TFA set up the Force as being very much about belief in the impossible. Some people have to chant their way up to it. Some people, like Rey, just operate without doubt. Rey's space wizard powers work because she /really/ believes in them. She has the perfect mindset.

>>51451240
No but it definitely provides transferable skills. People act like she was a totally unskilled newbie.

>>51451240
the idea is that she is familiar with fighting for your life

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>>51451220
>>51451247
>Jewish, obviously. Just look at his nose.

Oh. Oh good.

Lovely.

Hooray.

>>51449438
Bump, any advice?

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>>51451200

>>51451272
I don't hate TFA I actually liked it for what it was. But rey is a boring mary sue protagonist. But the worst thing was at the end when she was the first one to hug Leia instead of Chewie. Also how the fuck did she learn wookie so damn fast?

>>51451272
>Can we... not?
I like the TIE with a defensive gunner, that's pretty neat.

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>>51451163
Also, how many lightsaber fights did Luke get into before he ran into Darth Vader?

It's not really about realistic training. It's a narrative convention. A sword fight must occur - therefore, the conditions for a sword fight /will/ be met, come hell or high water.

>>51451305
>No ARC
You goofed, it's a great ship. Um, maybe Miranda and Corran Horn? Or Miranda and Dash.

So how in the hell is an Xwing supposed to achieve escape velocity when their top speed in atmosphere is less than a fucking passenger jet?

>>51451305
Fat dash or ABX?

>>51451350
Physics don't work the same in Star Wars as they do in real life.

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>>51451311
Languages in Star Wars appear to be more transmissible than herpes. Again, genre convention.

That hug was a bit of a miscue though.

>>51451318
It's a start.

>>51451342
He had personalized instruction from a card-carrying Jedi Master.

But again, her lightsaber skills are poop. She's completely on the defensive with no chance until she remembers that she's force lady-Jesus and then she just swings wildly, presumably using the force to put more force in her swings, until he falls over.

>>51451377
Yeah, plus the movie goes out of its way to build up how much a Bowcaster fucks you up when it hits you, so Kylo chased down Finn and Rey and fought both of them while bleeding out of his gut.

>>51451377
Did Yoda ever get around to teaching Luke any more lightsaber skills than what Ben managed to give him on the flight to Alderaan?

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>>51451401
If he wasn't dark side he could've used force heal!

>>51451377
>He had personalized instruction from a card-carrying Jedi Master.
When those films were made, Yoda was intended to not use a lightsaber at all. It's in the design notes for Empire.

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>>51451369
Yeah if that was the case than why could Finn not understand Chewie? Hmm maybe because Abrams made Rey a tad bit too competent.
>>51451318
I am upset that they only had upgraded TIE fighters. What about Interceptors? The fighters designed for facing Xwings. Where were the Advanced?

>>51451426
>Yoda
Talkin' about Ben, m8.

>>51451435
>Yeah if that was the case than why could Finn not understand Chewie?
He was raised in a xenophobic militia with little to no contact with the wider galaxy.

>>51451435
They wasted all their money building laser moon 3: return of the laser moon, so they could only upgrade one kind of TIE.

>>51451448
Ben taught him to deflect some stun bolts from a shitty little remote. Not exactly the most robust training.

>>51451435
I need to rewatch TFA. Does Rey understand Chewie at first or does she pick it up over the course of the movie?

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>>51451435
To be fair, Finn is a bit sheltered. Not a lot of use for language skills when you're a stormtrooper... in the sanitation department.

>>51451415
No.

>>51451377
He had 20 minutes of instruction from a crazy old space wizard on how to block blaster bolts, and then a few days of running around in the jungle with a green hermit. "Need your weapon, you will not," says Yoda. Funny that that's how it goes down in the end.

>>51451481
>20 minutes
Hours, m8. Hyperspace isn't instant.

>>51451529
Hyperspace travels at the speed of plot.

>>51451377
>a card-carrying Jedi Master
There's a joke to be made here about Han Solo, Millennium items, and the heart of the cards, but I can't for the life of me put it into proper words.

>>51451548
Something something Super Magical Swordsman

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>>51451574
Meanwhile, in the Old Republic:
>PAZAAK ON SWOOP BIKES

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>>51451529
Ok, sure. That doesn't change anything.

It's not about training. It's about belief.

>>51451605
>That doesn't change anything.
Sure it does. It's him learning to trust in the force as well as one or two basic stances. Even Sabine only took a few days to reach the point where she could spank Kanan, and she was being an uncooperative bitch for most of it.

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>>51451629
Right.

And Rey doesn't meet these criteria... how?

She has stance training with her staff and she /really/ trusts the Force.

>>51451653
Staff training =/= Lightsaber training
Back to Sabine, she had to start from the top even though she had lots of prior training with traditional bladed weapons.

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>>51451702

>>51451344
No, I mean I have two ARCs

>>51451361
ABX?

>>51451722
A-Wing X-Wing B-wing it's an older build but might work

>>51449257
>You can't, as far as I've seen, make a lightning bolt out of hope

Plo Koon makes one out of JUSTICE.

>>51451743
Thanks, but I'm not sure that'll hold up.
I was thinking either Rey with Expertise + Norra,
or Miranda + Bomber Norra

>>51451779
>Rey with Expertise + Norra
Hey, that's my list. How do you have yours set up?

>>51451776
When?

>>51451779
I've been running norra with bb8 and push the limit and that works okay since the arc has so many greens

>>51451795

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Electric_Judgment

Dodgiest of canon, but it gets mentioned in the Plagueis novel.

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>>51451776
>1776
>JUSTICE
Plo "Solaire" Koon confirmed for most American OJO member.

>>51451807
>Dodgiest of canon
Not canon at all, friendo.

>>51451832

My bad, I thought Plagueis had come after the cut.

New thread
>>51451938

>>51451948
We're not even on page 10 yet.

>>51451953
>pages
We're past the bump limit.

>>51451980

Janitors/mods do totally care about waiting until page 10, just so you know.

I've seen new threads get deleted because the previous thread rolls back up to page 9.