Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>51435641
Any apps currently in evidence, male or female, that you see her having good chemistry with?

>>51435842
Lern 2 leg, scrub.

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Reposting one more time (for real this time) in case anybody misses it, gonna leave this here and fish for critiques or ideas.

http://pastebin.com/Kb7DmA5m

>>51435842
is that a kitsune naga?
what

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>>51435957
Fluffy snek

>>51435884
>Rath
Paladin of vengence with a name that is a homophone for wrath.
The first name and surname are Germanic/Jewish and Scottish respectively
>Being saved by a full on angel on the prime materiel plane.
This is strange, and even further training under said angel, an angel is vulnerable on the prime in such a state it is highly irregular for such a thing to occur. It would make more sense for the person who summoned the angel down to do battle with the cult to take him under their wing.
Also the being told he was needed to travel elsewhere by a divine emissary is very strange, usually deities will do such messages through dreams, signs, ect, sending a divine messenger to give such a thing is abnormal.

>>51436051
Sounds good. To be honest, the angel bit was partly to ensure that I and another player could both use Stolen Fury effectively as a backstory tool, so I kinda ended up piggybacking on theirs.

>>51436051
To be fair, his background implies that it's probably a slave name. But yeah, very on the nose.

>>51436077
I just hope it helps mate.

Any suggestions for what would pair well with an alchemical scoundrel in a gestalt?

>>51436835
Witch works well.

>>51436835
What do you want to do?

>>51436890
I don't really like Witches for several reasons, but it's my fault for not specifying.

I kinda wanted something that could mix it up in melee a bit, but Int based initiators are spares. Like I could just go Zweisent but I'm honestly getting sick of playing those and every other Int based initiator is either d8 3/4ths BAB or has jank progression(looking at you Initiator Soul) and I won't really have the stats for a decent Con score to make up for squishiness.

>>51436835
What's Alchemical Scoundrel?

>>51436959
Why is aegis janky?

>>51437137
Customization to get maneuvers on top of 6th level initiators already odd progress. It just doesn''t feel good and I'm just not a big fan of the aegis in general. I'm not interested in power stone fuckery or constant reconfigurating shit so a lot of the class is basically wasted.

>>51437243
... actually those are pretty minor things, and you can archetype out of some of the reconfiguring stuff too.

Most Aegis basically build a 'default', and stick to it all the time, with reconfiguration only really showing up for special occasions (like you're going underwater and won't need flight).

>>51437243
If memory serves, Aegis actually NEEDS to spend points to get more maneuvers. They don't actually have a base progression.

They just use the table for what level they can access.

I think. It's been a while and it wasn't even me who was doing this.

It's janky though.

>>51437351
They get 3/3/1 from the base two-point customization. Additional maneuvers known (stances are separate but when you can reconfig and all that you don't really need more than one unless you're stance-dancing) are a point for two the first purchase and 1pt each after that. Every two purchases of additional maneuvers adds a readied as well not just a known.

However, because you can reconfigure all that on the fly (in fact, that's their recovery method), there's some advantages and disadvantages:

>You always need the prereqs because you don't get to train them out at higher levels

>You can switch what you've got even during a fight, it's just an action cost.

It's actually incredibly versatile, but you WILL be putting in quite a few points into maneuvers if you want the better ones. Still, it's a very very strong initiating support whether for multiclassing or in a gestalt.

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Tonight on Dragons intro:
>Tiny took offense about his size inside a massive auditorium

>Kobold attempts Symmetrical Docking.

>>51437627
Off to a fine start. Details on either of those available?

>>51437665
The kobold was dislodged from her seat by the Queen landing, and then from her taking off again.

Both times, she landed in Freyda's cleavage.

>>51437679
And suddenly I'm glad I didn't get selected!

>>51436003
>>51435842
Shittest of taste. You either enjoy a lamia to the fullest, or you have your subpar Kitsune waifu. You don't smash them together and think that's better.

You're not making either better, you're making both worse.

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>>51437665
Class comes with a flaw depending on one's elemental choice (for dragons not kineticists); in my case I have a slowly scaling Will DC when insulted to avoid overreacting. The chairman or whatever of the floor grants right of speech to the wrong person, because Atolm was too small from notice across a frickin stadium.

First roll of the game...

And anything I was planning to suggest at that point flies out the window as I start publicly accusing him of having no muscle, only being huge because everything in him is fat, and of being the thieving pervert they've been having problems with at the bathhouse at the top of my lungs.

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>>51437722

You sir are completly wrong.

>>51438053
Is that a llama naga?

>>51438053
>The restful llama naga reads the Ramayana.
>The restful llama naga reads the Ramayana.
>The restful llama naga reads the Yama - dammit!

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Where are redheads most common in Golarion?

Did that Tactician Vigilante archetype come out yet? If so, how is it?

>>51435957
Some porn artists with a monstergirl fetish decided that it is a great idea to have that kitsune tohou character transform herself into a lamia to rape some dogboy so then he can draw a lamiagirl-foxgirl hybrid.
Because "reasons".
https://hitomi.la/galleries/939093.html

>>51439660
What happened?

These threads helped popularized their work, if he didn't want that he shouldn't have created shit.

Then again, these threads are the home of degeneracy and society's dregs.

>>51436835
Whatever lets you ride an ogre.

Anyone looking forward to Starfinder?

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>>51439592
Yep, just came out in Intrigue Archetypes earlier today. Also it's awesome because arcanist casting is awesome.

>>51439745
I'm looking forward to writing FOR Starfinder #hashtagGOALS

>>51439751
That's not the question, you shill.

Has anyone actually used the Betrothed archetype for Avowed yet? Is it playable?

>>51439762
I've built one for an upcoming game and it's looking very comfy.

In many ways it's like having two separate PCs except with many caveats to stop you from doubling down and slaughtering one enemy twice as fast.

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>>51439761
I don't think I ever claimed NOT to be a shill.

Also I'm looking forward to seeing the mechanics of it more than anything. Golarion isn't my favorite setting, but hellknights in space is enough to pique my interest. Free Comic Book day is going to be pretty interesting when the preview comes out.

Hey /pfg/ I posted here last night asking about a game, but nobody ever contacted me, so I'm asking again. Does anyone have a game that's roughly bi-weekly that a forever GM could play in?
Sunstorm#0871 on Discord.

Alright, since i'm going to bed now, I might as well repost the link to the lfg thing I have where i'm looking for five people for a non-lewd/non-ERP game, involving a fuckton of houserules, including one feat tax reduction document I found and then promptly modified, along with a Fighter rework that looks rather promising.

https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/67758/pathfinder-the-houserule-testing-edition

If anyone has questions or whatever just post in the topics in that game's forum and i'll get to 'em later today, and I do recommend that people take their time readin' the houserule document since it's got some neat stuff like alternate stats for skills, feat autoprogression, and for some feats, even scaling by BAB.

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>>51439799
We're running Reign of Winter! Anyone else want Reign of Winter, or a different AP?

>>51439783
Stop being a shitshill.
I look forward to seeing how the bloated corpse of pathfinder plods ahead, drenching its surroundings with maggots.

>>51439799
I have a question for you: why the fuck did you waste my time with that Fighter rework which is more words than and charitably about even with saying "You get AAT/AWT abilities/feats every X levels and Combat Stamina free. You also get the Martial Master archetype/Barroom Brawler for free."

Between that bushel of bullshit and thinking SoP can save you from optimized casters, I have no faith in these houserules.

>>51439882
>thinking SoP can save you from optimized casters,
Got a better solution, asshole?

>>51439799
Your slayer is too strong. Drop the casting to low casting.

Your monk is still too weak. Gestalt it with something.

>>51439882
I'm still up due to downloading Reign of Winter for looking at it later today, so i'll answer this with simply: "I found it while looking at the pathfinder tier list and found it to be neat as heck."

Plus there's more shit reworked for UC Rogues, UC Monks, Slayer (Gonna get bumped down to Low Spherecasting most likely). Martials also get the Unchained Skills for free on top of that, along with the houserules allowing for alternate stats for skills on top of that. And Spherecasting is one of the more balanced magic systems i've seen in a D20 System aside from D20 Modern's solution of "All the casters are now prestige classes and are capped to fifth level spells and also have some hefty requirements to get into."

>>51439899
I'm not sure what to gestalt it with, to be honest. I might port the less nerfed versions of some of their abilities from 3.5e, along with improving their existing class abilities (Fast movement and AC bonus working in light armor, along with being proficient in light armor and a martial weapon group, maybe?)

>>51439932
Gestalt the monk with Unchained rogue. Now you might be thinking, "Nah, fuck that, monks aren't sneaky," but think about it.

It means monks can use their mobility to get into a place to sneak attack, and then blow out enemies with Flurry of Blows sneak attacks.

Think about it. It's really good.

>>51439932
Play 5e instead. You'd be a lot happier.

>>51439946
I like your way of thinking! I still might do my ideas though in addition to that.

>>51439950
5e lacks content so i'm stuck playing this shitty system and trying to improve it.

>>51439932
Gestalt monks with unchained rogues and give them good Will.

You're done.

>>51439960
The Fighter Rework includes a new type of save progression that i'm already attaching to every martials' saves that are on the lowest save progression, so their max will bonus is going to be +10.

>>51439959
Enjoy your false complexity and slew of options that are fucking awful.

Have you actually tried looking through the rules for the 5e? Or do you parrot what others just spew?

>>51439946
>>51439959
>>51439960
If you're gestalting monk with Unchained rogue, give them something at level 2 to make up for the redundant evasion.

Give them Boxing and Open Hand as free spheres, so that they don't, like, have to waste spheres just to get something they already had.

>>51439986
Right, probably gonna use Level 2 to give them free access to the Boxing and Open Hand spheres in that case.

>>51439984
I enjoy 5e, but it honestly needs some more meat on it's bones, and the balance is still kinda iffy (Way of four elements monks and eldritch knight fighters say hoi.)

>>51439984
I've played and GMed 5e a few times and also built or seen every class in action, and I agree with that anon.

Compared to PF, 5e's content is a barren plane.

Homebrew for making odd-numbered attributes matter as well as making strength not suck! Rate me! http://pastebin.com/F43xTeGS

>>51440018
It's a neat idea, but why do odd-numbered attributes NEED to matter in the first place?

>>51440018
The wis/dex/con ones are too fiddly.
In my opinion the bonuses need to be something you can write on your sheet once and then forget about, like extra trait, extra favored class, higher max dex, etc.

The random +1s and +2s that apply often are just too fiddly to bother with.

>>51440004
AT least 5e's content is actually content, instead of just crap.

Say what you will about 5e, when they make a feat called "Crossbow Expert" It gets some goddamned value and use, instead of being a complete waste of design space that makes crossbows shitty for the next five years.

>>51440003
>>51440004
Compared to PF, 5e's classes actually work and work well, wot4e monk and PHB ranger notwithstanding, but they fixed the ranger in a UA. The eldritch knight is actually good.
There's also the UAs which been released and of course homebrew, but that's hit or miss compared to the solid design of the core 5e engine.

Pathfinder is buried under a shit ton of non options, which you guys seem to think are actual legitimate options, but the fact PF actually needs houserules or 3pp or homebrew to actually have some semblance of playability is saying a great deal.
We've played PF for a while, never again.

Saying PF has heaps of content is disingenuous, since a lot of that is complete shit. Who the fuck designed the feat trees?
And saying 5e is a barren plane or lscks6 content is also disingenuous.

>>51440052
Why can't you accept that some people still like PF more than 5e?

>>51440052
>>51440051
I agree, 90% of PF's options are crap.

But it says something about 5e that even the 10% of workable stuff PF has is more content and variation than all of what 5e has in total.

>>51440052
Honestly, the entire reason i'm doing that houserule test game is so I can see just how Pathfinder is with more powerful martial classes, the feat trees more or less removed in their entirety, and with some of the most heinous feat taxes removed or at least reworked to be actually kind of interesting. And, besides, 5e really does kind of have a drought of content, which isn't helped by the fact that most of the D&D design team got laid off just before 5e was supposed to come out, which is why there's such a slow trickle of stuff compared to previous editions.

Anyways, my download finished a minute or two ago so i'm going to head to bed for now, anyone interested in my game knows where to talk about it.

>>51440064
Why do you have Stockholm Syndrome?

>>51440070
Haha, uwotm8.
Wizards in this edition at least are concerned about quality and it shows.
Meanwhile Paizo has perpetual content diarrhoea. Yeah but it's like finding gold nuggets once or twice in an ocean of shit.

Have you played with all the variation and content of the stuff in 5e? All of it?

>>51440071
You might find that's too much work to involve yourself in, especially because the content creators of both 3xe ivory tower design and PFbutthurt edition are against you.

Say what you will about Wizards and 5e but they actually care about the quality of content, and this is the reason for the trickle of content.
They also don't want to inundate the market like they did in previous editions.
PF is inundating the market with filth because the 3e engine failed a long time ago and they can't do anything about it except to still crank out garbage.
Their support of butthurt will ultimately fail them.

>>51440088
Anon, there's 24 disciplines in Path of War plus 6 full initiators and a slew of archetypes, plus prestige classes. Even going with 3 disciplines per build, there's easily over a thousand viable permutations that are all workable, with sub variations since many disciplines offer a variety of maneuvers and effects.

>>51440088
Epic. I have Stockholm Syndrome because you don't like PF, even when I play plenty of different RPGs including 5e and I'm not wading into /5eg/ trying to argue for PF's superiority.

>>51440121
You realize we're talking about core vs core, yeah?
If you want to cite 3pp, 5e has heaps of 3pp content and content from the DMGuild.

>>51440122
You do, I used to like PF but my rose-tinted glasses blinded me to the fact I was playing around with shit.

>>51440140
If you don't like it leave?

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>>51440140
>Playing Core only Pathfinder

>>51440140
Anon, I don't have rose-tinted glasses. I KNOW that I'm playing with shit. But I also know that, with third party content, there are somethings I can only really do with Pathfinder unless I get a doctorate in GURPS.

I know that 5e has better design than 3.X. You don't need to go on a crusade through /pfg/.

>>51440157
Why do you persist in playing it if you know it's literal shit?
You realize 5e has 3pp as well don't you? You realize it has the same number of options as PF except these options are actually well designed, don't you?

What the fuck.

>>51440146
Hahaha. Nice. Very nice.

>>51440154
That's the joke and it's a joke.

>>51440146
>>51440157
Is it because his arguments are well articulated and you don't want to hear what you should really hear?

>>51440157
>>51440179

Stop playing a shitty game like Pathfinder and come to the D100 side.

>>51440179
>You realize it has the same number of options as PF except these options are actually well designed, don't you?
No it fucking doesn't. Most of 5e's 3pp is still end-user garbage-tier homebrew rather than shit from actual publishers. Translate the entirety of Spheres of Power and Spheres of Might into 5e and then we'll talk.

>>51440190
No it's because he is trying to start an edition war when it frankly comes down to personal preference.
Each edition has its own strengths and weaknesses, and trying to argue one is better in the general for a different edition is just bad taste.
I would expect the same reaction if we were to goto 5th edition general and start posting about how amazing pathfinder is.
It is a shitty thing to do and rather childish and blatant bait posting.

>>51440203
Cubicle 7, Dias Ex Machina, Goodman Games, Kobold Press, Necromancer Games, Sasquatch Game Studios, Green Ronin to name a few would like a word with you.
You're thinking of DMsGuild which is user created. The listed above are actual 3pp.

>>51440209
PF was created because of butthurt and you sound really butthurt, guess that's fitting.

>>51440088
>Wizards in this edition at least are concerned about quality and it shows.

Wizards were concerned about quality when they made 4e.
5e is just made taking all of 4e's good decisions and then dressing them up to appeal to all the people who wanted 'real DnD again' while simultaneously chucking out a bunch of good ideas that wouldn't market well.
Half of 5e's decisions were made not for a good game, but a marketable one to save face from 4e's terrible reception.

Now, don't get me wrong, 5e does a lot of nice things, but it really isn't hard to stumble into design flaws.
Expertise breaking the skill DC system over its knee, Sorcerers being gimped three ways with nothing to say for it, the complete arbitrary nature of what recharges on short rest and what doesn't (Seriously, druid wild shape is short rest recovery while barbarian rage is long?).

I burnt out on 5e so fast. It's neater designed, but it's so boring because the only ways to play each class are the ones that fit the designer's narrow range of appropriate playstyles. Even 5e 3pp is boring because 5e's system set bad precedents that 3pp has to follow to not blow base classes out of the water.

>>51440209
>I would expect the same reaction if we were to goto 5th edition general and start posting about how amazing pathfinder is.

It's a free country but no one will believe you if you say PF is amazing.
One is telling things as it is, you'd be lying.

>>51440243
>It's a free country but no one will believe you if you say PF is amazing.
>I am objectively correct on my opinion.
No wonder your general is so dead you need to come to ours.

>>51440243
Does 5eg run cute lewd games for its community though?

I think that's something /pfg/ has over you guys

>>51440239
Keeping expertise dice and the sorcerer chassis would've have been good but Wizards in their infinite retarded wisdom listened to the 3e/PF players who influenced design in a shit way. The fact 5e's core design is still good despite this influence is kudos to the strong design of the system.

3e/PF fans shit the bed for all of us.

>>51440247
Both generals are probably dead because it's 5:30 in the fucking morning in burgerland, why are you two assholes still here?

>>51440239
You needed a better DM or to be a better DM.

>>51440243
>>51440238
>>51440190
>>51440179
>>51440140
>>51440052
>>51440051
>>51439984
>>51439950
Since you seem to be having trouble finding it here you go
>>51438113

>>51440270
A good DM can save almost every system.

In fact I would say one of PF's strengths over 5e is that it functions relatively better than 5e would with a bad DM at the helm.

Because so much of 5e adjudication is in the blank space of "dunno ask your gm"

>>51440247
Sure if you'd like, but you'd just be laughed off for your blatant lies. And then you'll come crying back.

>>51440255
You guys and this general are sorely in need of friends.

>>51440271
Stop snivelling.

>>51440295
>implying people in lewd games aren't friends

>>51440282
Only retards need mechanical adjudication and prompting, you can roleplay without a mechanical prompt. PF teaches bad habits that way.

>>51440300
You need female friends and companionship, I know it's hard for the people in this general.

>>51440304

5e teaches worse habits, it encourages a very dictatorial, controlling style of GMing rather than a cooperative one, and players to accept that lack of real agency separate from what the GM will allow them to do.

>>51440318
Anon just disengage from them they just want you to post and react to them. They are just fishing for (You)s.

>>51440318
Hahaha, that's hilarious that you'd think this.
Also you fucking what?
What shitty DMs have you playing under or are you lying to not seem like a retard again?

>Percentage of 5e games games I've had fun in: ~30%
>Percentage of PF games I've had fun in: ~80%

Checkmate 5efags

>>51440318

>says the guy defending the game where your character needs a feat to be physically capable of firing a crossbow while prone

>>51440318
How do you figure? This seems like what PF DMs and players are.

Where are you pulling that from your arse.

>>51440334
75% of people on the internet can make up statistics.

>>51440318
This really baffles me, where in the what?

>>51440304
Hey... wait a second...
Dungeonworld anon, is that you? Did you finally graduate to a better system than DW?

>>51440335
>Being objectively incorrect.
>Prone

>The character is lying on the ground. A prone attacker has a –4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A prone defender gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a –4 penalty to AC against melee attacks.

>Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

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>>51440335
But they don't?

>>51440335
Real Bunyip being and a real Bunyip hero.

>>51440351
DW is a piece of shit. Also what the fuck are you blathering about?

pfg really is made up of degenerates, retards, society's dregs, Stockholm Syndrome sufferers.

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>>51440357

>>51440318
>pfg can't refute the argument so will just make up shit.

>>51440357
>>51440364
>>51440368
He's talking about without penalty.
Also crossbows are so shit in PF. Why are they so shit? For what purpose?

>>51440364
>>51440357

However expanding on this fifth edition gives you a penalty with all ranged attacks well prone it seems.

>Prone

>A prone creature’s only Movement option is to crawl, unless it stands up and thereby ends the condition.
>The creature has disadvantage on Attack rolls.
>An Attack roll against the creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. Otherwise, the Attack roll has disadvantage.


>>51440370
>Inability to read confirmed
>A prone attacker has a –4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow).
Also so that version of Prone shooter does nothing. That is probably why it was updated to this.

>Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1

>Benefit: If you have been prone since the end of your last turn, the penalty to your Armor Class against melee attacks made against you is reduced to –2. In addition, the bonus to your Armor Class against ranged attacks made against you is increased to +6.

>>51440383
Because it was based off 3.5, due to 4th edition being trash tier.

>>51440383

"They're simple weapons"

>>51440357
>>51440364
>>51440368
C'mon, you should know your own system.

>>51440370
Do guns count as crossbows in PF?

>>51440408
For firing prone? yes, explicitly so.
>Fire while Prone: Firearms, like crossbows, can be fired while their wielders are prone.

>>51440391
4e is pretty good if different, goddamn the fucking retards who sunk that ship. Players, DMs and Wizards combined, you fucking retards.

>Visit Paizo HQ
>Smells worse than a subway public restroom
>Most of the staff are hungry skeletons or ooze type by how turbofat they are.
>James Jacobs is so obese he haves tits bigger than Dolly Parton
>One of the editors is beyond the mortal reach of autism and edits any photos in which he does appear with his face being substituted by a gold dragon's head.
>CEO is such a womanchildren that she haves a home cinema designed as a Star Wars spaceship set.

I can't wait Starfinder bomb harder than Fading Suns or Dragonstar. That or the abominable MMO.

>>51437130
Losi Tala Ngawai wanted a brief review; See
>>51440404

>>51440420
I did not enjoy it mechanically it felt too much like a crpg in all the wrong ways to me.

>>51440391
Check out crossbow expert for 5e. This is how feats should be designed.

>>51440424
What?
I don't like PF or pfg, but exaggerating like that is shit.

>>51440443
Do your research. This people is so socially awkward and unaware they even post this shit on their company's blog.

>>51440439
Feats have an entirely different design philosophy in 5th edition vrs 3.X feats are also handled completely differently then in 3.X you can not do a direct comparison when they have very blatant differences in function and design.
The Primary ones being, in 5th edition you will get less feats normally, due to this feats are designed to scale rather then be tiered by more feats, aka eliminating feat tax, which is a good thing in my opinion. This is a good thing but you can't shove this design philosophy directly into 3.X and have anything good come of it.
You are comparing a lemon to an orange.

>>51439808
>since apps are closing next Saturday I'm not really fishing for more
There's going to be so many disappointed /pfg/goers.

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So to take a break from edition wars, who are your favorite sky pirates?
Which three would you want to take with you?

>>51440427
Thanks for that, I don't often get good critique. His reason for leaving was mostly from being ostracized for being one of the oldest members in the village while looking and acting relatively young and not having any actual ties with the people aside from growing up there. He does seem like too much of a goody two shoes to be a pirate, so I'll have to think of a way to fix that.

I don't really want to be memed, I just want to make solid characters. Besides, I've never seen becoming a meme end up well.

>>51440464
You can still consolidate feats in 3e and PF, see the number of fixes to that effect and that site that keeps getting posted.
To say the two can't compared and the PF feat system can't be fixed is fucking lying and disingenuous as fuck.
It's deliberately sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming it can't be fixed when it can.
This is a concern, you and Paizo should realize the system can be fixed for the better but saying it's just designed that way because of previous baggage is fuckimg retarded.

>>51440443
>Doesn't know of JJ's legendary girth
This video is from years ago. Now he weights in Martins.
https://youtu.be/aaEbUgQBidk

I hear some people talking about a 'comeliness' stat or something occasionally on /pfg/, what is it?

>>51440487
>I don't really want to be memed
Easiest way of getting brand recognition, though it's not for everyone! That's why the meme advice is given separately.

If you want an easy explanation to why he might have bailed, a wife dying of old age or other accident might work nicely, while leaving him a bit more bitter and callous towards people who aren't his friends.

>>51440424
I don't buy that Lisa Stevens is a womanchildren but is true that Paizo is an ogre den:
https://youtu.be/ef12FkXbk44

>>51440528
Is that a woman?

>>51440504
Generally one's apperance. The calculation is not so much attractiveness but level of response you inspire. A hideous creature can still be awe inspiring.

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https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/67687/the-sultanas-hot-slave-harem

Why haven't you made an app for this yet?

>>51440571
Because it honestly looks shit. If the game actually seemed about bringing about the destruction of the nobility I would throw my lot in. However when the person just says "I want these fetishes" then no thank you. I want to turn the city of brass into a sea of slag, not bone some efreeti noble.

>>51440571
Because it looks and sounds like garbage.

>>51440554
Ogrekind woman.

>>51440571
My big plan was to get in while dumb as a bag of rocks and totally innocent, then get psychic reformationed back to normal, but only too late did I notice psychic reformation was off the table.

I guess my character's one of the dumb NPC fucktoys now.

>>51440571
Because it's a campaign that strives off lewd. Campaigns that strive off lewd never have a plot other than "Bone this guy, here's the mandatory bad guy, now fuck". I play these to be a character in an interesting story that I would enjoy being part of. If the only motivation is to act out some weridos fetishes while acting out mine, I would rather hire a verbose hooker for that job.

>>51440571
>character is a paladin/bloodrager
>completely naked the moment I start blood raging my saves jump to the following
>+34/+28/+34
>doesn't include smuggled in gear plus other surprises
>if I get everything in all my saves are above 50
>AC is extremely high too
>not worried about damage output
>also immune to compulsion and charm
I want to murder a demigoddess

>>51440640

>What your sword says about you
>I am from a certain place and time in history

>>51440664
But how are you going to beat a wish-boosted wish that goes through immunities before you see her and makes you love and not want to hurt her, anon~?

>>51440640
>What your sword says about you
>I have a sword

>>51440640
>What your sword says about you
>help, this guy picked me up and is trying to hit other people with me, I wasn't trained for this, oh god, there's so much blood, it's all over me I'm having a panic attack

How have you guys houseruled alignment out of the game?

>>51440640
Why is leaf blade always forgotten, leader blade is the best sword. WY doesn't pathfinder have a leaf blade?

>>51440776
Actions dictate alignment, alignment doesn't dictate actions. Alignments can change in a single day, give. That a character has a meaningful habit change.

>>51440776
Works on people's beliefs on the opposition. That means you can smite anyone you see as evil, and protect good only works on people you think are acting righteously.

>>51440886
Character has to be pretty insane or badly written to change alignment daily

>>51440894
Changing an alignment in a day and changing alignments daily are completely different concepts.

>>51440904
Ok no idea what you are saying now

>>51440893
So you can Smite Evil on someone by mistake just by not knowing everything?

>>51440776

Alignment is fine. Very few people are good or evil anyway.

>>51440913
>Lawful fighter has been in the army all his life
>Adventure leads him to delve deeper into his government
>Finds out the army has been used for gratuitous personal ends, hates this
>In a single day he renounces his military life, moving to be a Mercenary and fighting for his morals agaisnt the rule of law
>In a single day and with one realization, he has moved from Lawful to Neutral
Again, changing in one day isn't the same as changing daily.

>>51440931
But that did not take place in a single day
Just because the crossed the threshold in a single day, does not make the whole process take a single day

>>51440931
>implying being lawful has anything to do with following the local laws

>>51440915
Absolutely. Then again, detect evil works as a mindreading effect so you should probably know if they're evil by your rules or not.

You can't smite unless you're at least reasonably certain they're bad people.

>>51440949
Actually yes, the thing that changed his alignment took roughly two minutes of talking. If you're looking at it the way you are, literally nothing happens in one day.

>>51440956
>implying a structured and regimented life as a cog in a machine under strict supervision and a clear code of conduct isn't lawful
All things that come from military life.

>>51440979
Becoming a mercenary doesn't mean you stop being lawful.

>>51440973
>chasing a murderer through the streets at night
>you're just behind them, seeing them round corners
>finally you run almost straight into them, thick muscled arms and covered in blood
>have to act now or they night get away, Smite Evil
>whoops, it was just the butcher leaving his shop for the night
Your system is fucked. Smite Evil is basically Power Attack to anyone who's just a little dumb.

>>51440979
>two minutes of talking
even jc denton did not leave unatco with just 2 minutes of talking

>>51440992
Taking yourself out of a group, out of supervision, out of a bigger plan and picture, and out of a daily routine, are all things that are very much not lawful. I don't understand what your problem is, are you still pissed about that 5e guy? You can calm down, it's just alignments. The whole point is that they don't matter and you can slap whatever label you want on whoever. The label doesn't define what they do.

>>51441000
Literally who.

>>51441021
jayshun denton
in da fresh

>>51441010
>Taking yourself out of a group, out of supervision, out of a bigger plan and picture, and out of a daily routine, are all things that are very much not lawful.
Unless we're talking about selling your soul to a demon or shit like that, a single decision doesn't change your alignment.

>>51441029
It's almost like you're using words, but not quite.

>>51441040
Cool. You know this whole conversation started to see how people unfucked how alignments work, right? So arguing that they should stay rigid is not only completely irrelevant, it's just dumb.

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>>51441041
Deus Ex you uncultured swine.

>>51441070
>videogame about cyborgs
You could have told me it was from a new Adam Sandler movie and I'd be more convinced it was culture than that.

>>51440997
Because smite evil was so fantastic in the first place? You could have just used your swift for a PoW boost instead.

Besides, do it too much and then you have Paladins coming after your ass and smiting evil. Strange how that works, isn't it?

Regardless, most of the paladin players in my game tended to not go crazy "abusing" the ability.

>>51441070

Why does Sarif always talk like a drunk canadian?

>>51441093
Because his VA was a drunk Canadian.

>>51441090
>do it too much and then you have Paladins coming after your ass and smiting evil
No. It doesn't matter what you do. Any Mook who is stubborn enough to think they're right can literally Smite you for anything at any time. There must be thousands of headstrong assholes who think the world is just fucked up and Smite people constantly. Your problem is basically anyone who can wield a sword and thinks they're right can kill whoever they want. When I say it's like power attack, I don't mean in terms of viability, I mean in terms of it being so common.

How much homebrew is too much? Considering making a whole system of firearms and mandatory gestalt classes around them.

>>51441090
You're assuming that any killer in the world can be effecient culled by Paladins? So is there no conflict in your world? As long as there's conflict, at least one side will be using Smite Evil, and probably both sides will be. Basically everyone can Smite Evil.

>>51441124
Don't forget the bystanders who all think that conflict is the path to ruin, they can freely smite evil too, they just don't do it.

>>51441124
>>51441143
Also these "Paladins" that are hunting down people to establish some kind of punishment system for using Smite Evil are basically just random guys who want to enforce what they think is right on everyone. Since anyone can Smite, who do these guys think they are? They might as well be trying to take swords from everyone and saying only they can use swords. This whole setting is fucked up.

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>>51440052
>Compared to PF, 5e's classes actually work and work well

How to make good continental maps? I want to make my own setting from the ground up, for fun. But for now I'm going to try to make a setting that's basically "not Golarion" as practice. New map, new governments, new history, maybe new gods. Maps are hard though.

>>51441303
Can you actually refute that? Core only.

>>51441320
I always hear love for "inkarnate" for easy map making.
Examples: https://www.google.com/search?q=inkarnate+map&tbm=isch

>>51441328
Core only is my favorite cop-out.
>I can totally beat you in a fight
>Haha yeah okay let's fight then
>OK but you can only use one arm
Handicapping your opponent because you know you will lose if they're at normal capacity is such a joke.

>>51441339
These maps look beautiful, but the program requires a beta sign up to use. How long does it usually take to get a response?

>>51441346
How is it a cop out? We're talking about the core engine, what the main designers made.
Not making it core is a complete cop out, because you don't actually have an argument to stand on and you must know PF is shit so you grasp at straws.

>>51441346
Are you fucking retarded? You can't say PF has minimal problems if band aids are needed to fix the problems of the core system.
Your statement is completely disingenuous.

>>51441328
>>51441339
>>51441346
>>51441382
>>51441389
I mean core to include the Ultimate series and Unchained, but the fact you're already so terrified is telling.

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Pathfinder

The ruleset which was born because at first did not want change that 4th ed brough upon.

Now the system people stay in because they want to preserve the 20 pages of houserules/3pp they accumulated over the years to make the ruleset playable

Funny in a way.

>>51441382
It's a cop out because your system doesn't have anything besides core and PF does. You know you can't compete so you try to cut out things until one of the big weaknesses of 5e dissapears. If you really believed that 5e was better then you'd let it be All vs All, but you don't.

>>51441346
Hahaha, it's because PF is so horrendously designed that you have to resort to that.

>>51441389
How is this relevant to the post you replied to at all?

>>51441087
Do you know literally nothing about Deus Ex?

>>51441110
You still have to be a Paladin to smite, which implies strong convictions and a strong code of conduct. It isn't like just anyone can become a Paladin.

>>51441416
>strong convictions and a strong code of conduct. It isn't like just anyone can become a Paladin.
Except anyone can. As long as you think you're right, you are. In your alignment system, anyone who thinks they're good is good. Literally anyone stubborn or dumb can be a Paladin. The world should be swarming with them. Do you not see how idiotic that is?

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Miss me yet

>>51441408
Can you actually read or do you just smash your face into the keyboard hoping to form coherent sentences?
5e has 3pp and the DMsGuild to its name, as someone posted further up in this thread, however these aren't made by the main designers of the game and bringing 3pp bandaids to try to step into the argument means the argument automatically falls in 5e's favor.
5e does not need bandaids to its initial system, your position falls completely flat and you can only flail impotently.

>>51441414
If the designed core engine, generously including the Ultimate series and Unchained still falls flat in comparison to only the core of 5e means PF is terrible.
Saying PF has 3pp fixes to help apply band aids to the system means your position is completely untenable and that you are retarded.

>>51441408
Is this what PF does? Force you to eat shit, keep eating it and like it?
How's your shit-eating grin?

>>51441328
5e sword and board paladin can't cast because both hands are occupied.
5e bards have literally no features that make them care about musical ability or even require a perform check for anything.
5e druids become functionally immortal at level 20 when they get infinite wild shapes.
5e cleric forgets it's missing 2/3 of the domain list.
5e fighters go from being "flexible martial guy" to "haha bet you wish feats weren't so shit this edition!"
5e rogues literally get thieves' cant as a class feature, which shits up the backstory of anyone not actually involved in organized crime.

And because they realized how fucked over they made martials in general, they made sure everything had a casting subclass option.

>>51441408
Hahaha hahaha. Holy shit.

>>51441439
You can try to dismiss things as bandaids but the fact is that you want to ignore one of PF biggest strengths so you can pretend to have ground d to stand on. You want to call things bad and not let other people refute them with their fixes.

>>51441454
Non-core =/= 3pp

Why are you even here? The people in this thread are generously not filling the board with PF spam and staying contained in a general. If you're mad about PF being more popular than your system, go yell at the people flooding the board with it.

>>51441362
Not a clue. I don't actually use the thing myself, I just keep seeing maps made with it.

>>51440776
Light and Shadow are arbitrary affinities assigned to a soul at birth, though some types do try to claim it has some impact on behavior.

>>51441471
Holy shit you know nothing about 5e at all. You're just spouting incomprehensible shit.
For the first point, your holy symbol is emblazoned with your shield, you can gesture with your shield, you're good.
Look up War Caster.
Bards still perform with their checks.

What the fuck are you on?

>>51441481
That's not PF's strength in that it has bandaids, it actually means it needs those bandaids to coherently function as a system. This is not its inherent system strength and the fact you can't recognise this means you're a fucking retard, not to mention the vast majority of games only allow 1pp.
If you play with 5e 1pp, you're fine. If you play with PF 1pp, you're fucked.
You ducking this issue and keep dodging it.

>>51441494
I never said that. I'm including core to include the U books. The fact you're blind to shovelling and engorging on shit is hilarious and sad.

>>51441481
You admit PF needs fixes to actually function as a system
5e doesn't.
Ergo PF is terrible and that anon's orignal point stands.

>>51441494
Having nothing else to say to refute, the sentences of PFdrones always turn to whinging and whining.

>>51441535
>it needs those bandaids to coherently function as a system
I don't ignore this. I just got done insisting that you include the extra content when talking about Pathfinder, how could you possibly think that I thought they weren't essential? Let's rip 90% of the pages out of 5e PHB and see how well the system holds up. It would suck, wouldn't it? Keep calling it a band-aid as if that means something. It's a bullshit way to dismiss a fix as something less than that, and it just goes to prove that you can't actually talk about Pathfinder without diliberately ignoring parts of it.

>"lol let's compare exactly what select parts of the systems I want to compare"
>Uhh no, if you want to compare let's do it with everything
>"LOL WOW UR SO DUMB DONT YOU GET THAT YOUR SYSTEM FALLS APART WITHOUT EVERYTHING?"
>yeah, I do. That's why I said that.

>>51441552
>5e doesn't
This just in, 5e was a first draft and literally nothing has changed in it ever.

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>>51441535
> core only!
> but mah dev q&a that isn't even official errata

>>51441570
No really, why are you here. You keep repeating that you want to compare cores or something but you're not doing that. You just came to a general of something you don't like to tell people there that you don't like it. You have to realize that makes you more of a shill and a drone than anyone else here.

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Honestly, is it bad that a mixture of Pathfinder 3pp and Paizo 1pp being so shitty that I've honestly grown totally uninterested in any of the standard fantasy classes. Even in other systems?

>>51441635
Cool falseflag m8
>inb4 "hurr it's not you drone"
If its not then you're just stupid. Of course that's a bad thing, what an idiotic question. Leave the general, the game isn't for you. Edition preference is all subjective anyways, just play a different game.

Sup. Can someone suggest me some tips, trait and whatever for a sorcerer with one level in spellslinger?

>>51441648
I'm not him though. I genuinely enjoy PF with a dearth of 3pp options. I don't give a shit about 5e one way or the other.
>. Of course that's a bad thing
Why? Wizards, Bards, and Druids never appealed to me anyway and I can find ideas for casters I do enjoy in 3pp. Between Psionics, Akasha, and Spheres of Power(i.e be anything you want).

>tfw you realize that 5eposter probably hates 5e and is reverse trolling it to get the PF playerbase to hate it as well

>>51441679
Prepare only defensive and utility spells, never an offensive one. Burning a spell into your gun is cash useful. Don't like of yourself as a gunslinger with a few spells, think of yourself as a sorcerer with a special wand that turns other spells into Evocation spells.

>>51441579
No you do keep ignoring the fact it's shit, because you keep insisting the fixes shouldn't be called that because of your impotent whinging.
If you're including the Ultimate series and Unchained, I've included them because you pitched an autistic tantrum. See above.
If you're talking about extra content in terms of 3pp, then no as we're comparing 1pp to 1pp, otherwise your argument and position is underhanded and disingenuous.
A fix that is necessary for a system to actually function coherently means that system is fucking shit, which PF is and you've admitted it.

Also, thanks for putting words in my mouth. Really appreciate it.

>>51441589
Because it was and is actually well designed.

>>51441605
A lot of you can't recognize you're shovelling shit unto your mouths and tenderly fondelling it with your hands.

Saying that I keep ignoring fixes and expanded content because you can't otherwise form a strong argument or that I'm just a shill because I actually know what a well designed system is is extremely telling that pf and its community are completely cancerous.

>>51439554
Not a minority.

The canonically strongest Humans (in Pathfinder) are Black and the most successful are Arabic.

>>51441685
You're actually an idiot.
Which is is, did these classes never appeal to you or did PF kill the appeal? You've said both things now.
Why is it bad for a system to bore you out of a genre? Is that a serious question? Look, if you don't like it then just play something else.

>>51441696

I don't know mate, I actually rather like 5e, I just keep it for my "serious normie" games.

>>51441696
Keep playing in shit if that's what you want. Actually more power to you.

>>51441706
>Because it was and is actually well designed
Holy shit, OK you've made it too obvious that you're trolling now. There's no possible way that you think 5e was literally a first draft. This has to be a joke.

Mwangi shickt is magic. Ulfen schikt is stronk.

And "super rich !Arabian nights" land is a common trope. Not to mention "succesful" is fucking subjective as hell. I'd hand that to Chelaxians.

But you're just a /pol/ack looking to drum up shit.

>>51441713
If I didn't have first hand experience playing 5e and finding it okay but unmemorable, this guy in the thread would be turning me off it like nothing else.

>>51439554

Sarkoris (Kellid in general), Realm of the Mammoth Lords, Land of the Linnorm Kings, Taldor.

In that order.

>>51441711

I thought the strongest were Shoanti or Ulfen?

>>51441712
>Which is is, did these classes never appeal to you or did PF kill the appeal?
They never appealed to me much and Pathfinder just killed what little appeal they had for me.
>Why is it bad for a system to bore you out of a genre?
It didn't bore me out of a Genere. I like fantasy stuff, I just can't stand bog standard wannabe forgotten realms bullshit and classes anymore.
> if you don't like it then just play something else.
I still like Pathfinder, just with third party content.

>>51441579
You realize it's now 1pp compared to 1pp now, yes?
You've thrown several tantrums so you get a loosening of the compared content.
PF is still so terribly designed and you're still a massive autist.

>>51441740
Make up your mind. You can't make a post without taking at least two different stances. I'm done with you.

>>51441747
I'm not taking two different stances, you're putting words in my goddamn mouth.

Is this general always like this?

>>51441723
All that and you blather, you're completely mentally deficient.
If you think PF is good and 5e is not well designed, you're fucking retarded and completely in Stockholm Syndrome.

>>51441756
Sometimes.

Occasionally an edition warfag wanders in and our resident /pol/lack must be getting up.

>>51441749
>I'm bored with classes, even in other games
>Lol nevermind I like them

>Pathfinder 1pp and 3pp have ruined these classes for me
>wait no, I like Pathfinder with 3pp

Sure.

>>51441756
I preferred it when we were talking about lewd character ideas.

Witchhunter is here and pretending to be a 5e fan now, though.

>>51441698
So instead of casting lightning with the gun is better to burn it to have three minutes of electrical bullets?

>>51441766
>>Pathfinder 1pp and 3pp have ruined these classes for me
Okay, I see where the confusion is I structured my first sentence badly.

I meant between 3pp options being GOOD and 1pp options being shit made me dislike them more.
>>Lol nevermind I like them
I never said that. I didn't care for them but still could see myself playing them, but with 3pp options I'm totally uninterested.

>>51441730
>>51441756
>>51441763
PF is still the place for degenerates, retards, autists and shits. It's now infested with retards, autists and shits who can't stand having their precious game laid bare, can't bear not eating shit and not grovelling in shit, and can't bare not pitching tantrums.

>>51441727

I'd argue the Ulfen are the most successful race in Golarion, because unlike every single other group they lack an external or internal threat.

Life in the Linnorm Kingdoms continues as it always has, full of comings and goings. The Irriseni are inwardly focused and wholly disinterested in expansion, the Crown lacks a government, and the Varisians have no interest in conquering them.

But a great people is not made such by the lack of enemies alone, it is made by accomplishments. The Ulfen are famous as warriors and sailors alike, enjoying wealth and prestige (and ample fear) whenever a longboat sails south to the Inner Sea. Their travels have ensured that every ethnic group north of Lake Encarthan(?) has some measure of Ulfen blood, and in fact the Chelish contain a smattering of Ulfen alongside the Tien.

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>>51441770
Tsundere witch when?

>>51441790
(You got the last bear wrong)

>>51441760
Or I have an opinion. You knows its subjective right? Besides, I was referring to you insisting it was a first draft. I haven't said a single word about the quality of 5e because its subjective. The only dispariging comments I've made towards you are about your terrible forms of argument and laughing about how you think 5e was a first draft. Stop trying so hard, come back tomorrow and put some effort into trolling.

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>>51441790
If you'd stop posting we could get rid of a few of those.

>>51441723
Are you actually retarded? How are you breathing and blinking at the same time?

Why are 5e players so fucking fat and socially maladjusted? I get it, they're upset they wasted money on a game no one wants to play with them, but that doesn't mean we should be subjected to their tantrums. Chinkmoot should send them to /mlp/ so they can be contained with the rest of the hasbro children.

>>51441821
You really should. You don't even realize pfg is the complete laughing stock of these boards.

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How do I play a Conjuration Sphere specialist without feeling like an asshole?

>>51441773
Well, not exactly. In many cases yes, but not all cases. But, even when it would be better to cast the Evocation spell instead of enchanting your gun, it's still better to not have the Evocation spell because of the added utility. As a Sorcerer, you can completely skip 100% of damage spells and instead get the most utility, control, and defense out of your spell selection, because every time you would need a damaging spell you can just burn literally any spell to enchant your gun.

>>51441808

You know that's an incredibly common archetype and I'm honestly baffled nobody tried to make one for RotJR or WotR.

fuckit

Jason Bulmahn, can you read me? I'm calling exterminatus on this shitty fucking thread.

>>51441830
I do. I don't really care. I hardly browse any other threads on this board here anyway.

>>51441818
You don't have an opinion if you like PF or your opinion is inherently worthless.

I never said 5e was a first draft, I was saying it's really a well designed system. What you choose to read is your own fucking delusion. It means you are objectively a retard though.

>>51441829
Hahaha, what you've only described are pfg degenerates, unlike you shits, we actually have lots of friends, we're sociable and attractive girls actually like us.

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>>51441830
> thinking one anon gives a shit about what another anon thinks about yet another anon

>>51441846
You know instead of getting some tripfaggot to spam the thread with shitty content and bitching, you could try to steer the thread in a positive direction?

>>51441866
I could, but there's nothing worth saving here.

>>51441860
>I never said 5e was a first draft
Let's backtrack then.

>>51441589
>This just in, 5e was a first draft
Followed by you here with a direct reply
>>51441706
>Because it was

We all know you're just fucking with us now, at this point you're just bumping the thread.

>>51441873
Then maybe take a break? They'll tire themselves out eventually.

>>51441860
OK man you're right. I'm delusioned and wrong and worthless. Man, there should be a containment thread for people like me. Some kind of Pathfinder General where people as stupid as me won't get in your way...
Well since you're so smart and right, I guess you'll be going on to other more important things than low-lives like us. Bye.

>>51441885
the lewdfags and the edition warriors and the /pol/shitters will never be gone

>>51441883
Did you fail English? Learn some fucking reading comprehension. If I meant it was a first draft I would've used a comma directly after the was, and I didn't.
Read it its entirety and don't twist it.

Again, you are objectively retarded.

>>51441900
How long do these edition shitposters usual drag on for? This is almost as bad as /vp/, and its so bad there they had to make an official board rule against genwars.

>>51441836
That are some good points, but i'll take some evocation spells just to be sure when i don't have the gun. What about feats and items? I was thinking of going with the rifle and my image is to fly and shoot from the air

>>51441894
I'm free to objectively say PF is completely objectively shit, because it is.

>>51441912
That contexts doesn't make sense as a response to the other statement. It's irrelevant and unrelated to the comment.

So which is it, are you saying that 5e was a first draft, or are you saying that you are actually just shouting random things at whoever replies to you for more (you)s?

>>51441883
Trying this hard to grasp at straws. Holy shit, how many times were you dropped on your head. Hahaha.

>>51441917
Pretty sure it's just the one retard that the others keep replying to, so whenever their mom makes them get off the computer, I guess.

>>51441920
Technically speaking it's more effecient to use revolvers with TWF and Rapid Shot, but a two handed gun is more thematic and fun for the build.

>>51441932
Context matters because it's meant to be taken in its entirety. Otherwise you just proved you're objectively a retard and can't comprehend English.

>>51441942
What you added is literally useless.

>>51441932
>>51441968
And you've proven yourself too stupid to be trolling.

>>51441968
>Context matters because it's meant to be taken in its entirety.
Wow, it's almost like I'm hearing myself when I was telling you why you shouldnt leave out 90% of an editions material when comparing them.

>>51441968
What, your mom out of town and you can be on the internet all day today like a big boy?

>>51441985
You fuckwit, reply to my orignal post. You're always setting up strawmen.

90% of content including 3pp is fucking disingenuous. You keep banging on about this because your arguments all have flaws and you can't argue shit.

>>51441987
Does your retard wrangler know you're loose? The public will be fearing for their safety.

>>51441987
You have be 18+ to be on 4chan.

>>51442019
>90% of content including 3pp is fucking disingenuous
And why is that? You keep saying that but it's not like I want to compare 3pp to 5e core. I'm still waiting on even a si gle comparison from you. You haven't even compared core vs core yet, you're just screaming at anyone who will reply to you.

>>51442041
Because it's not made by the original content creators for one. Why would you feel the need to include it in your definition? I haven't heard a single strong argument from you.
It's because you keep throwing autistic tantrums if I do so.

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So what's the deal with people who ban the 'eastern' classes because they're 'too eastern'?
I've never been able to wrap my head around such a complete inability to refluff.

>>51441010
Leaving an organization doesn't change your alignment. Hell that's one of the complaints in regards to how stupid alignments can be. Far too many people seeing that example and thinking "well that makes sense; obviously since he left the army he's completely lost his own codes and discipline".

Which is fucking bullshit on the same level as "If the bible didn't say I'll burn in hell for it, there would be NOTHING stopping me from raping and murdering my children and my neighbors" that we see from extreme-right dominionists on occasion.

The guy left the organization. That's all. In fact, by that very example he left it because he was disilusioned by how it was being abused (against the regulations and laws that should stop that).

There's no way he'd just stop his morning routine forever, or lose the combat discipline that was trained so deeply into him, or suddenly forget about the value of working in/for a group. In fact what did he do? Became a mercenary. HE LITERALLY JOINED ANOTHER ORGANIZED ARMED FORCE.

Like, holy shit. This is why people think that using smite evil on the kingdom's usurper demon vizier should make you fall "Because lol chaotic".

I blame 3.PF for this.

>>51442075
Because this is /pfg/, I don't need to make an argument. If you want to make an actual statement about Pathfinder instead of just repeating that it's objectively shit and telling people to find their retard wrangler, I'm sure you'll find no shortage of counterpoints. You came to this general, make an argument/comparison or just admit you're only trolling.

>>51442041
>>51442075
A vast majority of DMs do not allow 3pp material, hell even PFS does not allow all Paizo material. This is why your argument is disingenuous and frankly retarded. The content from 1pp must stand on its own grounds.

I'm convinced someone set up bots to just spam the thread, because I'm seeing the exact same post woth slight variations over and over.

>>51442079
Because there are some people who can't wrap their head around changing fluff, and their autism makes them refuse to change their stance.

>>51442093
There's too much wrong with this and it's too long for me to bother getting to the specifics. Suffice to say the point went directly over your head and possibly take a breather and then re-read the post chain.

>>51442079

Why need Samurai when have Cavalier? Why Monk when Brawler?

It silly, very silly and weird! People don't even bother remember that Land of the Linnorm Kings has Tien in it, very sad! Did you know easiest way to tell if someone weeb or not is if Weeb Character backstory is from Kalsgard or Kasai?

>>51442094
Why not, why don't you need to? You laughed at the objective truth of 5e being mechanically strong and mechanically superior to PF. This makes you an objective retard.

>>51442094
The question is do you literal retards want to hear the arguments or do you just want to stick your fingers in your ears like you've done throughout this thread?

>>51442112
>I don't have an argument, but I'm going to pretend you're wrong anyway

>>51442117
>>51442106
>>51442079
>mad that other people can't refluff
>when you can just play a refluffed cavalier instead of a samurai or a refluffed rogue instead of a ninja
That's all they are anyways, just refluffed classes that already exist. If you absolutely NEED your class to be called "ninja" or something just write that in your sheet, no one will know or care.

>>51437722
>You don't smash them together and think that's better.
>what is yuri

>>51442094
Linear fighters, quadratic wizards.
The tier system existing at all.
The feat system being a mess of wasted, useless or unnecessary garbage.
Static attack routines for martials.
The ivory tower philosophy still existing in full force.
Martials being actively handicapped.
I could go on.

>>51442141
But that's wrong, because they have different mechanics, you dribbling retard.

>>51442145

Objectively worst pairing?

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>It's a "campaign set in Taldor but there's a blatant Tian guy and I think that's a generic anime girl?" Episode

>>51442112
No, you're entirely focused on "he left the army" and attributing a complete ethical collapse on that.

Leaving an organization after going "wait a minute. This chain of command isn't lawful neutral at all! maybe lawful evil, maybe some neutral evil too" isn't a chaotic act.

A lawful PERSON is someone who feels strongly towards having an organized and disciplined life. They have their codes of conduct, their routines, they view working as part of a greater whole to be beneficial.

That doesn't fucking mean the person leaving or whistleblowing a corrupt government is fucking chaotic "because lol that was his lawful". That's not how any of this fucking works.

You know who else was fucking lawful? Lawful Good, in fact? CAPTAIN FUCKING AMERICA. He fucking lives and breathes the stuff.

And he led the rebels in the civil war.

>>51442164
Mhmm. OK you're hallways there, now tell me how you think 5e flawlessly fixed these things without creating any new problems. That is what it means to comapre, after all.

>>51442164
The CMD/CMB being fucking useless.
Entire options, classes, archetypes, feats being objectively garbage and useless. Taking those means you've handicapped yourself.

>>51442182
Tell me why you think the 5e classes weren't well designed. This is the statement you were laughing at.

>>51442180
>captain america was in the civil war
>and he was on the side of slavery
That gave me a good chuckle. But you completely missed the point still. Look, you keep trying to fit this statement into your existing view of how alignments work, but the entire conversation was about in what ways you change alignments to make them easier or more coherent. So, not only does your insistence that alignments don't work that way mean literally nothing here, you're also hyperfocus on the example and skipping the sentiment that alignments don't really matter.

Now that I've handed you what should have been obvious, can you stop raving? I don't think you took that breather I told you to take last time.

>>51442196
No, it clearly wasn't. I was laughing when it was said that 5e was a first draft. I even went on to spell that out in later posts for the retarded readers, but I guess that wasn't enough for you. I still haven't said a single bad thing about 5e because, as I've said, it's mostly subjective anyways. For the most part I thought I'd I kept insisting that you actually say something meaningful sintead of shitposting about "objectively" and calling everyone retards, you'd realize you had nothing to say and leave.

So one more time, tell me how 5e fixed those issues without generating new ones?

>>51442182
No, tell us why you think the 5e classes aren't well designed.

>>51442180
Technically there'd be more of an alignment shift if he'd stayed after discovering how corrupt it is.

>Oh, turns out that the top is skimming funds, pillaging, abusing its authority... I should get myself promoted! This army is badass!

*That* is actually a slide towards LE.
Leaving or fighting against it is how you retain your LN alignment. The biggest abusers of law and order are the ones able to order your boss to stop you from arresting them in the first place.

>>51442244
No.

>>51442244
>>51442196
>go to general for thing I don't like
>demand that they attack the things I like
I can't imagine what it's like to view the world this way.

>>51442216
Wrong civil war, and explicitly he was AGAINST the effective "slavery" that was being hung around heroes necks.

Holy shit are you ever stupid. I know FAS is a thing, but did you get dropped a couple of times as a crack-baby as well? Maybe got "born again" a few decades later as a result?

Your entire insistence that that example illustrates an alignment change brings a shining example of the dangers of inbreeding.

>>51442285
Do you actually have a statement to make here? Because it's literally just insults. The only thing you made that's an actual reply to what I said was about captain america. Why are you so mad about this? Just take that break, I promise you'll feel better.

Fluff is not mutable

>>51442312

Yes it is, that is why it is called fluff.

Ever fondle fluff before? It's very moldable.

>>51442312
Are mongols samurai?

>>51442324
>>51442325
Fluff that can by anything can also be nothing.
If it can be nothing, then it cannot have any impact on your game.
Thus if fluff is mutable, it means it does not exist.

>>51442340
What

>>51442305
>thinks there's only one other person in this thread
>calls it an argument when he literally just bitches someone, but when someone responds in kind its "lol you have no argument because I'm right"

>>51442363
Are you being deliberately wrong or are you just not reading? Here's the breakdown.

>How do you guys unfuck alignments?
>Alignments don't really matter so I let them be really fluid
>Hours later
>Alignments don't work that way!
>I know, read it again
>No but they really don't work that way!
>I know. This is how I make them work instead, it doesn't even matter
>Mess of insults
>pls calm down

Dear Nu-Moot,

Please ban everyone in this thread.

Thank you.

Sorry to intrude on the autism parade, but I've got a real boy question for Pathfinder.

I'm joining a Kingmaker campaign where the DM has said we are allowed to change (3) class features for something else, whether it's a feat for feat or feature for feature regardless of source.

I want to play a Swordlord, what class should I use as a template and what features should I replace, and with what?

I plan to replace Heavy Armor proficiency with Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Dueling Sword), for example.

>>51442460
Do the class features you trade out have to be at roughly the same level?

>>51442460
Change a single bonus feat for spellcasting.

>Go to bed after saying my opinion on 5e that while good REALLY needs some minor adjustment and more content and that's why i'm DMing that houserule game.
>Edition War explodes overnight.

Holy shit. I think i'll just relink my lfg listing for that game if anyone's interested in seeing me flounder about and attempt to fix up Pathfinder, then.

https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/67758/pathfinder-the-houserule-testing-edition

>>51442471

Nope! However it's totally played by ear; if it doesn't fit the concept and seems super powerful, than she'll deny it.

>>51440931
>Is given stating it's an example of changing alignment in a day

>>51440931
>The example given that is then argued against
>>51440979
>>51441010
>Both used to further specifies that in fact it happened in two minutes, and explicitly explaining that the act of leaving the military is the main reason the person loses his lawful alignment, as this automatically removed the training, discipline, regimented way of live that is TAUGHT in the military, because one only has these things while in there, unlike some old vets who still can't stand the thought of eating supper at a time that's NOT 18:45 when they're so obviously not being shot at.

>>51442093
>Calls out the example as not being a reason why one would change alignments
>>51442180 (assuming that's probably the same guy it seems written similar enough)
>Specifies that the organization (the army) that was left by the character, having been left due to it not being up to the standards it itself had ingrained into the character, and so leaving or going against it would be reinforcing one's LN views, rather than instantaneously removing the lawful component of one's alignment

>>51442392
>Alters several parts of the chain of responses while claiming everybody else is wrong.

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>>51442478
What adventure are you running?

Why not run one of the 64 page modules? It's more realistic, there's no way you're going to do a whole AP.

P.S. Monks should be unarmored, just give them something to make their AC super high even unarmored. It's retarded to make monks wear light armor.

>>51442503
Okay, okay. We get it. It's too much for your autism riddled brain to handle.

Why don't you run off, find your wrangler, and let him know you're done using the internet today. Okay kiddo? Let the adults talk.

>>51442559
To be fair, some other anons suggested gestalting UC Monk with UC Rogue, and I kinda wanted to make armor more appealing to use since they have proficiency in that.

As for the adventure it's looking to be Reign of Winter, but, like I said in the lfg thing, i'm open to suggestions.

New Thread
>>51442574
>>51442574
>>51442574
>>51442574

>>51442579
Run one of the 64 page modules, it's not like you can successfully run an AP.

And monks in armor is against theme. Find a way to make their AC stupid high even unarmored.

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>>51442580
>page 3

>>51441426
I left for a bit but not everyone can be a paladin, no. You actually need paladin levels to smite evil.

Your argument is like saying "since magic missiles can be used on anyone, anyone can use magic missile and your setting is dumb."

>>51442503
You're still completely missing the point. How is this that hard for you?

>>51442589
Is that a challenge? And eh, hnh. Maybe add their CON mod to the armor bonus? Seems a bit more treading on Barbarian/Fighter's turf, though.

>>51442601
But anyone can get paladin levels, since all you have to do to be good is think you're good. Just thinking you're smart isn't enough to cast wizard spells.

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>>51441426
Was Kore good?

>>51442625
the alignment of every single person in goblins is chaotic SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD

>>51442622
>Just thinking you're smart isn't enough to cast wizard spells.
Anyone can cast wizard spells with an above 11 int score, a 50 GP bag, two envelopes stapled together with spellbook scrawled on the front and a level in wizard.

Paladins still need to follow their code.

Most people wouldn't say devoting large chunks of their life in order to fight evil in order to punch people better, especially when you can just be a druid or cleric and be useful OUTSIDE punching people to death.

>>51442788
when 'dedicating your live in order to fight evil' means 'dedicating your life in order to fight literally everyone you think of as evil' then yes that's gonna happen a lot fucking more

>>51442819
>dedicating your life in order to fight literally everyone you think of as evil
The three paladin players who I've had didn't have a problem with it and one even managed a nice character arc pulling in some paladins who were going over the line.

Simply by talking to them during the fight with both good arguments and incidental Diplomacy checks he stayed alive until the enemy paladins' smites stopped working and the two overzealous Paladins broke down and promised to come in quietly to atone.

It works better if your players aren't powergamers assholes who decide they're hardliners just to get +cha to hit and damage bonus.

>>51442175
The real-life Byzantine Empire had a ton of people of every ethnicity, as befitted its role as a central trading point between East and West for a long time.

>>51442779
Kore ain't sad. Kore's the Terminator.