/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls General

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dang, I thought I had the full map with Yokuda included, now the image doesn't exactly fit with the edition

whatever, we can make it a redguard/yokuda/hammerfell edition

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>Yokuda Edition

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>"Porcelain armor has exactly the exoticness that seems appropriate to the stone-worshipping people of the Hammerfell. Like glass armor, its name confounds expectations, which inherently pushes it into the fantastic (and look how glass armor is accepted nowadays). Of course raga porcelain is enchanted and blessed by the Gods through the hands of its craftsman, and thus a viable (and beneficial because of its lightness) form of protection.
>"And they mixed its powder with the milk of Morwha, the mother of all sands, and it stood firm, and sounded of small music as its porcelain scales shook with the wearer, and so did they sing along their ranks as they did in Old Yokuda among the saints."
>I would see these same scales painted each by hand as if in a mosaic, with ocean patterns that moved like the waves of the Eltheric, confusing the enemies of the sons and daughters of the Orichalc isles. Warrior wave, indeed."

Yokunda

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Is there any information on how the Dwemer began to delve into Tonal Architecture? I always thought they'd have a more primitive period of using actual tuning fork staves, bell beard braids, hammers, etc. to work out how it actually works.

>Giant circle of dwemer sitting around a massive bell hammer that slams into the ground
>dwemer telepathically coordinate when to ring their tuning staves in succession
>create a small tonal resonance field around them and the bellhammer and slowly begin to sink into the earth, creating the first of many dwemer tunnels

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdEGf8Au6AY

>>51429297
My headcanon is that they got the basic knowledge from Herma-Mora while they were just an Aldmer clan in Altmora.

>>51429297
That sounds cool

>>51428086
Elinhir has made me ponder for a while now. I always thought it was a city with Cyro-Nordic/Colovian inhabitants/influences, yet it is supposedly a Crown-controlled city. I suppose the situation could be such that the city is majority Redguard but the countryside is inhabited by Colovians.
There's got to be some isolated Nedic communities lying around in that general area, too. Maybe some Nedic-Orcish mixed communities analogous to the Reachmen (minus the Mer blood).

>>51429356
That sounds neat but I also really enjoy the theory that they are a 'Seventh House' of the Velothi Clans that made their exodus to Morrowind. Basically the theory goes they were a radical sect of Chimer that left the clan early on in the exodus and settled in Morrowind before Veloth and the boys made it there. Alternatively, they were a radicalized sect that left long before Veloth and his followers, being the dogmatic extreme of 'no gods' vs. the aldmer 'these gods only' and the chimer's 'but these gods too'ideologies.

>>51429688
> they are a 'Seventh House' of the Velothi Clans that made their exodus to Morrowind
I hate this theory baka desu senpai. Their culture and worldview is just so goddamn alien I can't see them coming from the same stock as Chimer.

>>51429723
Where from, then?

>>51429734
Either from Old Altmora, or from early Aldmeri explorers/settlers in middle ME (see "Before the Ages of Man" by Aicantar of Shimerene)

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>>51429723
I've always wondered what triggered the Dwemer so hard that there entire culture is based off atheist dogma

>>51429843
Some kind of divine betrayal or a disaster of similar scale. I mean, look what happened to Altmer after Oblivion Crisis and Shattered-Law.

>>51429843
I like what Baladas Demnevanni (the Telvanni wizard in Gnisis) had to say about it:

>It was unfashionable among the Dwemer to view their spirits as synthetic constructs three, four, or forty creational gradients below the divine. During the Dawn Era they researched the death of the Earth Bones, what we call now the laws of nature, dissecting the process of the sacred willing itself into the profane. I believe their mechanists and tonal architects discovered systematic regression techniques to perform the reverse -- that is, to create the sacred from the deaths of the profane. As the Dwemer left no corpses or traces of conflict behind, I believe that generations of ritualistic 'anti-creations' resulted in their immediate, but foreseen removal from the Mundus. They retreated behind math, behind color, behind the active principle itself. That the Dwemer vanished during a conflict with Nerevar and the Tribunal is merely coincidence.

>>51429982
>During the Dawn Era they researched the death of the Earth Bones
So basically, Dwemer were already a thing before linear time?

>>51429982
>dawn era
>dwemer doin this shit
>>51429297

i rike

>>51429843
>>51429958
Maybe they were sinistral mer who got bothered when their worship of elfLorkhan was rewarded by getting destroyed by the black man, who came to Tamriel illegally btw

>>51430053
But then why Wraithguard is a right hand gauntlet?
Checkmate atheists.

So, the reach definetly belongs to the forsworn, right?

>>51430112
Western Reach or Eastern Reach?

>>51430112
All rightful imperial clay
It belongs to the emperor

>>51430112
I really don't like the Reach as portrayed in Skyrim. I mean sure, there are going to be wild parts but to basically make the region a primitive Celtic hill country is not what I imagined it to be.

>>51430186
But badass druidic terrorists are fun.

>>51430214
Primitive mongrel terrorists with bird-hags and mini-Lorkhans.
Forsworn are cool.

>>51429297
More physical (or metaphysical) symbolic representations of tonal architecture, such as bells, seems to be more of a hallmark of the appropriation of tonal techniques than those of the Dwemer proper. This is basically based on the Sixth House alone, who model themselves on Dwemer culture and sciences in what is perhaps a superficial manner, as can be seen in the Sixth House bells. Of course, their plans are anything but superficial and Dagoth would have a more inclusive understanding than, say, the corprus infected guy who's face exploded.

The Dwemer were advanced enough to have computers, GPS, cell phones, so it was probably relatively less ritualistic than what would come later.

Could be totally wrong.

>>51429723
>Do not think as others do that Kagrenac created the Anumidum for petty motivations, such as a refutation of the gods. Kagrenac was devoted to his people, and the Dwarves, despite what you may have read, were a pious lot-he would not have sacrificed so many of their golden souls to create Anumidum's metal body if it were all in the name of grand theater.

Maybe I'm contradicting myself here, but the Dwemer aren't, like, totally alien. They have discernible motivations. Not that I'm disagreeing, >>51429811
it totally possible.

>>51429843
It's basically the same philosophy of the Thalmor, and all Mer, except from the other way around (and that means geographically as well).

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>>51430186
It was supposed to live up to its name, literally being a REACH in terms of living in and around the area.

Forsworn could've had more variety instead of all being glass cannons, too.

>>51430261
On second thought, maybe this is just because we see 6house in action but not the Dwemer.

They probably had ritualistic aspects too, or at least there isn't enough evidence to say they didn't.

>>51430261
>The Dwemer were advanced enough to have computers, GPS, cell phones, so it was probably relatively less ritualistic than what would come later

Yeah, thats why the focus of my conjecture was /primitive/ dwemer culture. Considering how much Dagoth loves the dwemer, I wouldn't be surprised if he "stole" the bell concept in order to spread his influence, whereas the Dwemer might've used them as local wifi to amplify their telekinetic bs. In my mind, Dwemeri bells would've been much much larger and more often than not had some sort of internalized hammer and prong structure that rotated to ding dong at high velocity while the bell hammered into the earth. Kinda like a jet engine except with trap music.

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Is Reach Kosovo

>>51430327
I don't know if the Dwemer ever even had a primitive, early version of their own culture, or if they did it might be far enough back that they would still just be Aldmer. Though I guess that development was what made them distinct from the Aldmer in the first place.

The bell stuff is definitely a Dwemerboo thing, along with Ash Vampire facial hair and whatnot. You're probably spot in in the distinction between the two and their use.

>>51430265
The forsworn could have had more variety, but the geography of the reach is fine IMO. I know I've killed my characters more times on accident in that region than any other.

>>51430265
I wish Skyrim (the game) was more like Skyrim (the province).

>>51430338
Reach still has some traces of intelligent life.

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>>51430327
>In my mind, Dwemeri bells would've been much much larger and more often than not had some sort of internalized hammer and prong structure that rotated to ding dong at high velocity while the bell hammered into the earth.
Like this?

>>51430265
I always thought the Reach was the most developed part of Skyrim (since it was once Mer stronghold) but then in the game, I was constantly under attack by some cavemen. Also, it didn't really feel like they were a distinct culture and ethnicity (other than the caveman costumes).

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>>51430388
Yeah, thats the feeling I am starting to get. I feel like they would've just segued from Aldmer culture into their own Dwemer tonal studies easily, just applying what they already knew and stripping down un-needed stuff while becoming more industrial in their overall designs.

I had this idea that they'd braid their beards with little bells, and possibly telekinectically move the bells to make their beards rattle to do some crazy tonal manipulation bs. Just really wacky stuff like that before they refined their techniques and became the nerds were knew them for.

>>51430436
Yeah, but more like the thumping device the Fremen use on Arrakis to distract the worms, and much, much, bigger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld2DMsyy0go&feature=youtu.be&t=2m15s

>>51430483
>I always thought the Reach was the most developed part of Skyrim (since it was once Mer stronghold)

You are dumb.

>ywn play as little more than a housecat but with unimaginable cosmic power.

Khajit lore is best lore.

>>51430531
Felidae would be the best Alfiq play inspiration.

>>51430497
>I feel like they would've just segued from Aldmer culture into their own Dwemer tonal studies easily, just applying what they already knew and stripping down un-needed stuff while becoming more industrial in their overall designs.
Yeah, like, tonal architecture was just the next concept after they finished figuring out the gravity earthbone, and it turned out to be the most useful.

Dwemeri tonal fashion would be a thing to behold.

>>51430515
The Reach was literally the last stronghold of the Direnni, the location of three major cities (Dragonstar, Markarth Side and possibly Snowhawk). It's also the one region most suitable for agriculture if the 1st edition of the PGE is taken into account. The latter also mentions the population from other lands (Bretons, Cyrodils, even Khajiti), meaning it was also host to a notable centre of trade.

>>51430653
>dood muh PGE
get over it nerds

>>51430672
Nice chimposting.

>>51430719
Who are you calling a chimp?

>>51430743
Osting.

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>>51430653
bretons were a mistake and the only reason they are held relevant anymore is because they live in the province where convention took place

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So I've been toying around a bit with the Colovian-Nibenean split and it went a bit further. How do you all think about this setup?

Cyro-Nords - intermixing between Nedes and Nords, huge Nordic influence. Western part possibly it's own distinct North Colovian culture
Heartlanders - sub-category of the Nibenese
Cheydin - A bit more Nordic influence than the Heartlanders and Nibenese but still part of the Nibenean sphere
West Wealders - Isolated Colovian settlement with some Nibenean influence
Breto-Nords - Inhabitants of Farrun and Jehanna who have lived under Nordic rule for a long time in the past.
Bjoulsaeans - mixed race of horse nomads, possibly some connection to the Reachmen

I've been making some plans for a more detailed map where I'd make even more in-depth divisions (like the Gold Coast Colovians, for example).

>>51430531
Khajiit lore is great, and there's some fun concepts in it that don't get talked about a lot.

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Let's talk about liches.

How does one become a lich? Seems like there's a different method each game.

Vampires are the sphere of Molag Bal due to his creation of the disease. Do any daedra claim liches, or undead in general?

Liches are universally made through necromancy. Since necromancy was only illegal due to an Archmage's personal taste, is it possible to have legal liches walking through the streets?

A few Telvanni extend their lives through necromancy, but I also remember hearing that Restoration can also extend one's life. Is necromancy a subset of Restoration?

Are liches the best healers in Tamriel?

>>51429843
>>51430007
It is not something that's easy to explain, but the entire culture, in fact the very race that is the Dwemer, finds its first roots within an inferiority complex so old it dates before recordable time.

According to legend, before humans walked Tamriel, their once was a small group of Elves traveling across the Velothi mountains who came across a race of giants. The giants who had never seen Elves before named them the 'Dwarves' which means Dwemer.
Now this is just a legend of course, and generally understood to probably not be completely true, but even myths can still have a bit of truth to them.
Written in the greater Anuad (not the Children's one, the actual ancient book) are references to a group of Elves who were the "brilliant students" of the Ehlnofey. Now as some have come to understand it, these brilliants students were the Dwarves, who in turn earned their famous name from their "titanic masters." But the Ehlnofey aren't really living things, more like foundations for how the laws and natures of the Earth work. Higher celestial things that died and became wood and dirt and mortals.
Go back to Baladas' quote, the other anon wrote..
>>51429982
The Dwarves, not the literal students of the Earthbones, but the observers. A group of Elves who early on studied their famous death, intrigued, or perhaps disturbed, by these sacred concepts, converted into the profane things of the physical earth.
quote from YR, PGE1
>Why would any self-respecting Mer refer to himself as a "dwarf", even if it were a name given by the blessed Earthbones?
>it does not occur to them that stature may refer to things outside of the physical
Here's where it becomes clear
Why would a group of Elves refer to themselves as Dwarves?
The name has nothing to do with height. But rather the Dwemer's own insecurities over being clearly lesser things, which they absolutely resent. This denomination came to define a way of thinking, later an entire race.

>>51430876
That's cool. Check out the Province Cyrodiil mod for Morrowind, that deals with things like this.

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>>51430985
Why were Cyrodiil liches so much more stylish and cool than lame-o Nordic scalie liches?

>>51431010
This makes perfect fucking sense.

>>51431039
Damn, that's a sexy lich, I must say.

>>51430876
You can't draw a hard devide between Colovian and Cyro-Nordic.

>>51431039
Nibenean influences and higher standards among Imperial undead.

>>51430887
So the khajiit creation myth has azura taking the khajiit from the protobosmer, and binding them to the moons.

This seems to neatly explain their many different forms. They're protobosmer whose forms are controlled by the moons at birth.

>>51431079
Pretty much.

If there was one more playable race added, which would you pick?

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>>51431010
dude, ty

never thought of it this way. mind = blown.

>>51431014
Posts on their forums have actually been an inspiration for me.
I didn't know what to do with the people of the West Weald (which is populated in my headcanon; I don't remember anyone being there in Oblivion) since it's supposedly part of Colovia but lying beyond the Strid river so closer to Nibenay. I'd imagine they wouldn't be completely isolated since Riverhold south of the border is supposedly popular with the merchants.

>>51431066
Right, I imagine there'd be some sort of cultural and dialect continuum between North Colovia (Falkreath) and all the way across the Jeralls down towards Anvil. Anvil to me seems like something of an outlier since it's a bustling trade city that gets a lot of foreign traffic and because I don't know if it was settled by the Nordic mercenaries to the same extent as the rest of Colovia (the first known king of Anvil, Bendu Olo, doesn't have a very Nordic-sounding name to me; makes me think Anvil retained more of its Nedic character).

>>51431146
I'd have the Imperials divided into the Colovians and Nibeneans, at the very least. If not that, then the Imga.

>>51431146
Just give me more cats.

>>51431146
What races are playable in UESRPG at this point?

>>51431167
>wanting to play as a pompous, moronic ape

>>51431172
I think it's only the main races, as the supplement with more races hasn't been updated yet.

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>>51431146
Call me a degenerate but I'd like me some Lilmothiit.

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>>51430876
People of Anvil seem to be their own distinct branch of Colovian (Oloman?), and similarly the people of Kvatch as well (Kvatchi? Kvetchi?).
I'd argue the only place that can truly still be called 'Cyro-Nordic' would be Falkreath, Bruma seems to be mostly just nords settled in Cyrodiil. Eastern Jeralls would probably be a culturally Nibenese region (I'm basing that on the Ancestor Moth temple being there).
West-Wealders is just a really weird name.

>>51431167
>West Weald
Isn't that Skingrad? It would probably serve as the conventional breadbasket for Colovia versus the extensive rice fields of the Nibenay, and as such would be one of the more densely populated areas. Considering it borders on Khajiit territory, particularly the nomadic northern tribes (that's a thing, right?), their culture might also play a factor, but to what extent?

>>51431260
Bruma is actually a Nibenese city, yeah. As we see in Skyrim, though, it does have a pretty heavy Nordic influence comparable to Colovia.

>>51431146
Honestly can't think of one, I'm all for adding more races as npcs giving them a presence in the games but as playable I'd rather just keep it as it is or if anything add a few alternate khajiit forms to pick from, some of the more human-like ones

>>51431239
Etymological note:
Lilmothiit is just Ta'agra for "Someone who lives in Lilmoth".

>>51431260
>West-Wealders is just a really weird name.
Yeah, it's a placeholder. I really don't know what to call them. West Weald Colovians? Nibeno-Colovians?
That reminds me, I'm sure the division between the Colovians and Nibeneans themselves is not clean cut.

>>51431292
East/South West Weald? I don't know if it has a specific name but it's the region beyond the Strid River, in that little dent on the border with Valenwood and Elsweyr. It seems too eastern to be completely Colovian.

>>51431352
And Khajiit is "Someone who lives in sand", your point?

>>51431357
West Weald Colovians would be applicable in a literal sense.

>>51431260
Also, yeah, Kvetchi.

Bruhmahti too.

>>51431357
The Wealdens.

>>51431366
"Khajiit" has more implications than that.

But my point is that it's interesting. Unless the Lilmothiit spoke Ta'agra, then they probably didn't call themselves Lilmothiit, and the name they're remembered by is just a Khajiiti loanword.

>>51431422
Well, it's not like we can know for sure now that they're all dead because of Japanese cold.

>>51431311
I mean, as we see in Oblivion.

>>51431389
I don't really know what to call them. Also, what's the possibility of them also spreading across the border into north Elsweyr (around Riverhold?

I've had more questions while doing this little exercise
>what is the population of Rimmen like?
>who populates Stormhold and Gideon, two cities formed by the Ayleids?
I can't really picture Argonian cities. To me, they seem these tribals who'd inhabit the swamps (since they can live underwater and all). I've been thinking Nibenean tribals could've resettled the Argonian side of the border after the flu went through its course.

>>51431413
That sounds cool

>>51431488
>what is the population of Rimmen like?
Let's immediately address the supposed Akaviri population.

>>51431488
Rimmen used to have a significant Akaviri population, but it's a Khajiiti city.

Argonians definitely live in cities, they're just kind of weird and swampy.

>>51431488
>I can't really picture Argonian cities.
Think Transvaal. All the cities were built by Canthemiric Velothi, Barsaebic Ayleids, Kothringi and Lilmothiit and modern Argonians are just kinda squatting there.

>>51431505
Right, that's one of the main questions. I don't know if their situation would be the same as with the Akaviri in Nibenay who intermarried with the Nibenean upper classes and mostly disappeared in their original form. I feel like the region where they founded Rimmen wouldn't be as populated as Nibenay so they could remain the ruling class in Rimmen.

>>51431544
Makes me wonder if there are any Nibeneans there. Also, how much of the population of Orcrest is actually Orcish.

>>51431544
I like to think there are still some Wild Elves living in those cities. In my headcanon, the Ayleids survived in Cyrodiil as a very small minority and most of their cities were settled by the former slaves. There'd be more of them in north Valenwood while the ones escaping to High Rock would probably disappear in the already mixed upper class.

>>51431488
>who populates Stormhold and Gideon, two cities formed by the Ayleids?
I believe Stormhold, Gideon, and Blackrose are for the most part Cyrodiilic (or Imperialized) settlements, as their lore tends to center them around prison facilities constructed by the Empire.

>>51431547
Nah, there's Argonian-built cities. Their giant pyramids and temple-complexes just have a tendency to sink into the swamp after a couple of centuries.

>>51431488
Considering, as you mentioned, that Riverhold is a merchant city, as well as how the Weald also borders Valenwood (and we know that Cyrodiil is the biggest exporter of lumber to the province), it's probably a fairly cosmopolitan area, plus factoring in all the goods they produce like wine/how much of it is vineyards.

Rimmen is actually one of the places in Tamriel with the most Akaviri influence, alongside historic sites in Cyrodiil and Skyrim. There's an Akaviri constructed shrine there called the Tonenaka with 10,000 statues.

>I can't really picture Argonian cities.
Whichever one the Imperials constructed is built up around those ruins.

>>51431585
Re: Rimmen

It was at times established as a kingdom independent to the rest of the Ne Quin-al, and probably had a heavy Imperial presence considering the Numidium was once housed there.

Apart from Province: Cyrodiil, another great place for more ideas for Cyrodiil is https://www.imperial-library.info/content/weird-cyrodiil-mod
Especially this one post that goes a bit more in detail about various cities in the Nibenay region:

Mud Duchies:

Sardaf - Harcane's Grove, Ft. Variela - Alessia's birthplace; epicenter of the popular revolts and minotaur problems. Home to The Chantry's Waterthief Cenacle, the Cult of The Cosmic Cow, and the Cult of the Savior-Dreugh. Their emblem is Morihaus Rampant. Reigning Doge is Alvus Calvaluna.

Bravil - in situ and extending throughout what I'm calling Bawn bay - The shipbuilding center of Cyrod and home to the Imperial Navy Arsenal. Rife with sailors and their diseases. Home to the Benevolence's Motherfane, the Blood-river Bullfrog Cult, and the Cult of the Centaur. Regulus Terentius isn't from Battlemage stock and that drives them crazy to the point of conspiracy.

Leyawiin - in situ and extending to cover the Niben delta without actually interrupting it - Fundamentally a Khajiit settlement with Nibenese palaces and battlements. Home of the Cult of the Panther, the Dolphin Cult, and Azura's Cult. Skooma and Sugar flows like water in the local Eyelid. It's the first port of call on the Niben and is heavily fortified against pirate attacks. Doge Marius Caro plans to kill his ditzy new bride and lay blame on the Mercenary's Grin.

Mytheria - overtop Fort Redman and Arpenia and straddling the opposite shore - Center of Publishing and Commercial Silk Production, except a recent and very mysterious infestation of blighted Veloth moths is putting the hurt on that industry. Golden-row neighborhood is lined with Altmer fashion houses. Home to The School's Cocoon Academy, Nocturnal's cult, and The Cult of the Ancestor Moth. Their emblem is a Moth and Spindle. The Doge is Toshara Rucuniil (the Mytherian Dogeship is preferentially matrilineal).

1/2

>>51431744
Vengheto - overtop Wendelbek and the Forts Gold-Throat and Red Water - Center of Metal Refinement and Production. Half of all Ebony mined in Morrowind is bound for here. Historically the Empire's armory, it's reputation has slipped in recent years due to Tharn allowing the City's Armorer's Guild contract with the Legion to expire. Now they face serious competition from Orsinium. Definite Kothringi aesthetic. Home to The Resolution's Underforge, The Cult of The Dream Tiger, and The Cult of the Clam-Snake. Their emblem is two water jugs on a yoke. The Doge is Orbius Minglumire.

Artemon - overtop Nenalata, Cadlew Chapel, and Fort Grief - 'New Artaeum'; home to both the Mage's Guild's Undercampus (for those who couldn't get into the Arcane University) and the Battlemage College's Cadlew Basilica. Psjiic architecture and magickal utilities proliferate. Home to the Solarium of Magnus, Peryite's Cult, and the Cult of The Invisible Crab. Non-mages are second class citizens. Emblem is stylized/disguised Daedric Ayem. The reigning Mediator is Pentia Bazanothon.

Orno - overtop Nornal, Wenderbek, and Ft. Sejanus - Center for commerical alchemical production, mass-produced potions and rice brandy and such. Home of the Temple's Plenary Gardens, The Cult of The Rainbow Crane, Vaermina's cult, and a community of evangelical Nerevarists. Next to the docks is the Orno Foyada, a shanty-town of recent Ashlander immigrants. They work the drudge-jobs in the big distilleries and consequently bootlegging and drunkenness is a major problem in their enclave. Emblem is a flaming retort. The Doge is Zenobius Voria.

2/3 (because I couldn't fit thirty more letters)

>>51431767

Mir Corrup - overtop Ft. Entius - Former playground of the rich and famous; Now hemorrhaging business to Senchal and Rubicae. Suffering an epidemic of Greenlung. Fugitive slaves from Morrowind flock here, the locals blame them for bad business and the plague. Home to The House's Pagoda of Moans, the Cult of the Golden Rat, the Cult of the Fox-in-the-Moon, Sanguine's Cult, Boethia's Cult, and the Flesh-Fly Cult. Emblem is a fountain. The Doge is Arcladio Curio.

>>51431744
The ideal Cyrodiil is part that thread, part Temple Zero Society, part Province: Cyrodiil and a tiny, tiny bit of Oblivion.

Is there any lore on viking-esque Nord/Colovian raiders pillaging other lands? Or just pirate lore I guess.

>>51431827
Yeah, a little bit. But not much.

There's a lot more pirate lore in the Abecean. Heck, the entire game Redguard.

This might seem like an odd question, but what does an ash yam taste like? I've always imagined it tastes like a sweet potato with a hint of wasabi.

>>51431813
Don't forget the PGE1

Jungle Cyrod was NOT a transcription error!!!

>>51431602
>>51431650
>>51431733
Could see Cyrodiil expanding its border past Riverhold and Rimmen, as well as Gideon and Stormhold desu

>>51431827
Nords raided High Rock and Morrowind at times. Apparently, their first encounter with the Bretons was during such a raid

>>51431848
>expanding into rightful Khajiiti and Argonian land
Cyrods need to get out.

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>>51431547

>The cities of Stormhold and Gideon were originally founded by the Ayleids (their Ayleid names are unknown), but were so far removed from their culture in the heartland that they never were attacked by the Alessian army when it rose in revolt.
(PGE3)

>The Black Marsh elves settled in the eastern regions near present-day Archon, Arnesia, and Thorn.
(PGE3)

>Scotti had never been to Gideon, but he knew what to expect. A large settlement more or less laid out like a Imperial city, with more or less Imperial style architecture, and all the Imperial comforts and traditions, more or less.
>The jumble of huts half-sunk in mud was decidedly less.
>"Where are we?" asked Scotti, bewildered.
>"Hixinoag," replied Gemullus, pronouncing the queer name with confidence. "You were right. We were going north when we should have been going south."
(The Argonian Account)

>The worst of the dungeons was constructed in the following era by Potentate Versidae-Shae on the ruins of the Lilmothiit community called Blackrose.
(PGE3)

>In 1E 2811, at the Battle of Argonia, the last organized army of reptilians in Black Marsh's history was defeated, and they retreated to Helstrom, into the impenetrable center of the Province where the men and mer wouldn't follow.
(PGE3)


>>51431627
Nice ESO drivel.

>>51431884
Still mad about Trans-Niben Acquisition I see.

>>51431767
This needs a map and an explanation for some of the Cults and persons of interest.
>>51431841
Could you direct me to some of said lore?

>>51431893
I've read a very interesting piece of c0da about how those eastern Mer were forced to flee and resettle to some of the islands in the ocean between Tamriel and Akavir.

>>51431954
The cults and people are basically all there is to it. I can make a quick map. Another interesting post btw:

>Colovia remains much the same, only the names change. Now we're dealing with Estates ruled by Kings, their words literal law.

>Nibenay, naturally, is a tad more byzantine.

>Below Nibennium, the East Sunder-Seat is dominated by the 'Mud Duchies' of the Niben and her tributaries: predominantly urban districts housing centers of industry and trade, surrounded and fed by a vast plantations.

>Ostensibly the hereditary holdings of Battlemage aristocrats called Doges, only the lords of Sardaf, Leyawiin, and Vengheto possess anything like absolute power. In Mir Corrup, Mytheria, Bravil, and Orno they must share power with their Syndicaries - parliamentary bodies representing the interests of Trade guilds, Merchant corporations, and lesser Battlemage nobles.

>Artemon doesn't even have a Doge, just a Mediator to resolve hung motions split between the representatives of the Battlemage College and the Mage's Guild (which are different entities in this envisioning - more on that later)

>The rest of the Endless Jungle is a jigsaw of Eparchies, Counties, Kynazates, Tanuteries, Hidalgades, Silentaries, Chartularies, and Patroonships. Mostly agricultural, though some do enjoy mineral wealth, those nearer the Niben are older and more prestigious and more often held by Battlemage lineages.

>>51431978
>those eastern Mer were forced to flee and resettle to some of the islands in the ocean between Tamriel and Akavir
Would explain Chimeri-quey.

>>51431845
Like ash. As everything in Morrowind does.

>>51431893
>everything I don't like is ESO
You don't need to act like some faggot for no reason.
It's from The Infernal City, which you'd know if you knew your Argonian lore.

>>51431978
>I've read a very interesting piece of c0da
That would actually have been from the PGE2.

>>51431954
>Could you direct me to some of said lore?
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Torradan_ap_Dugal
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cyrus
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Restless_League
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/deathbrand

>>51431146
Maormer

>>51432028
Weren't these "xanmeers" an ESO invention? If no, mind giving us a quote?

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What sort of asceticism is practiced in the various cultures of TES? What sorts of asceticism could you see being practiced?

>>51432096
>Somewhere in Lilmoth is “the great stepped pyramid of Ixtaxh-thtithil-meht ["exact-egg-cracker"]. Only the topmost chamber jutted above the silt, but the An-Xileel had excavated it, room by room, pumping it out and laying magicks to keep the water from returning.” p.35

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>>51432032
>PGE2
Oh right, that could be it.

>>51431954
Here's the map. I also added Sutch (located either on the river on the border with Hammerfell or a bit more in-land).
The reason I'd change the location of Sardaf is to put it where Fort Alessia is located in Oblivion.

>>51432141
>Lilmoth
I rest my case.

>>51432137
Off the top of my head, you would probably see this the most in Dunmer or Nibenese society or eastern Skyrim. Maybe Alinor as well.

>The Ternion Monks prefer nigh-inaccessible spots as places to meditate and worship. Often, the only way to get to these holy retreats is to use the magic of the monks.

Greybeards come to mind.

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>>51431893
Pic related.

>>51431928
>"And Azurah took some forest people who were torn between man and beast, and she placed them in the best deserts and forests on Nirni."
Elsweyr and all it's parts are the Khajiit's god-given land. Cyrods need to leave.

>>51431994
Probably not, I'd imagine the Chimeri-quey left Tamriel willingly, a pilgrimage that went even further East than the majority of their kind.

>>51432096
Pic related. Page 16 of the PDF version.

From the French version of Monomyth (which has some text translated from the beta version of Morrowind rather than the final one):

"Même les étranges Hists reconnaissent cette entité qu'ils appellent Ixtaxh-thtithil-meht ou " Celui Qui brise l'oeuf " "
"Even Hists recognize this strange entity they call Ixtaxh-thtithil-meht or "One who breaks the Egg"

http://lagbt.wiwiland.net/index.php?title=Le_Monomythe

Ixtaxh-thtithil-meht is located in a city built by Lilmothiit and has nothing to do with Hist.

>>51432147
For the record and just so this doesn't get confusing if this is ever reposted, but the idea that Mytheria is a Nibenese city originates in that thread and has no actual basis in any other information. The only time Mytheria is mentioned is by Dyus in the Shivering Isles, and there's no indication of where it's located. Not that it's a bad idea or anything.

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>>51432185
Think there is a TES equivalent to sadhu, that is holy men who live as beggars, eat food that is given to them, and partake of a substance to usher them closer to nirvana/CHIM/amanrath?

https://youtu.be/xGvK_9ugecM?t=38m9s

>>51432233
I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to prove or disprove here, but the concept first appears in some of Vivec's teachings as a concept related to the Psijic Endeavor.

>the Striking ("exact egg-cracking") of old Argonia.

>>51432233
>Ixtaxh-thtithil-meht is located in a city
His ziggurat is located there.

>>51432250
True, it seems that that is the case for several of the locations. Vengheto, for example is only mentioned once in relation to a certain Earl of Vengheto. I couldn't find any mentions of Orno anywhere, or Sardif. Artemon and Mir Corrup are both also mentioned only once.
I've included them because I'd like to think Nibenay is a highly populated region and having these locations included works towards that. It's all just headcanon or coda or whatever you want to call it.

>>51432261
That actually seems like it could be a thing in Hammerfell for some reason, maybe the Alik'r.

For some reason, this also reminds me of something that's not really related, but interesting:
>One Swooner dies or pretends to. The priest beside me, a Mephalite sporting a sigil-halo in lieu of the regular horned abbot’s hat, tells me that these are the last dead leaves of the Velothi south. Seeing that I don’t understand, he tries to correct himself: ‘but the music they make is a skill that has been useful to ALMSIVI many times since. Songs are words reborn.’ By which, I guess, he meant to counteract the common saying, ‘By the word I mean the dead.’

Also: "Borgite."

lol

>>51432275
-
>>51431627
>Nah, there's Argonian-built cities. Their giant pyramids and temple-complexes just have a tendency to sink into the swamp after a couple of centuries.
I'm arguing that this Ixtaxh-thtithil-meh was not built by Argonians, but rather Lilmothiit.
Ixtaxh-thtithil-meht is just a Hist/Argonian name for it.

>>51432307
Sardif would be Sardavar Leed, or Sard.

I only single out Mytheria because there's a chance it isn't on Tamriel at all, versus most of the others.

>>51432329
Oh, yeah. Sorry, all these posts get confusing.

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>>51432329
>I'm arguing that this Ixtaxh-thtithil-meh was not built by Argonians, but rather Lilmothiit.
I don't see any reason to believe that.

>>51432147
There are references to other settlements in the lore within Cyrodiil beyond what is shone there as well
I've had a little project going on for a while where I've been writing down these settlements in a text file whenever I come across them in a text.

>2920
Caer Survio
Thurzo
Kavas (pass between Morrowind and Cyrodiil)
Bethal Gray (near morrowind border)
Wroth Naga (apparently looking into High Rock, oversight by Bethesda)

>Song of Pelinal
Heldon (likely the crossing right before the Rumare)
New Teed (Teed is metioned in the Five-Hundred companions text)

>PGE1
Guis (as in Eric of Guis)

>PGE2 (if you want to count it)
Seluriel
Corbolo
Jerallinopel
Su-Banadher

>>51432307
>I couldn't find any mentions of Orno anywhere, or Sardif
Orno doesn't exist, Sardif appears to be referencing "Sard" (Sardavar-Leed) mentioned in the Adabal-a

when did the current Kalpa start?

I'm a bit confused. If it starts in the Dawn era, then it's kinda weird that Alduin is the one that ends kalpas, considering he didn't even exist before Anu and Padomay did their thing in the void.

Is the concept of causality screwed when Alduin does his world eating?

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>>51432324
Yeah, I definitely see the Redguard peoples of the borderlands of Alik'r being or having an ascetic culture to some degree. My thoughts on this are a possible sect that practice a sort of religion that is based off sword singing, the highest potential of this religion being like babbys first sword sung; that is that the understanding of that tonal manipulation technique has degraded so far its become an esoteric practice of beggars.

Idk, my pc in Morrowind was this devout Mephala ascetic whose own philosophy closely mirrored Vehk, but less MK and more Book of the Law, which MK has heavily derived from for his writings.

>>51432376
>Corbolo
A Corbolo River appears in Oblivion.

>>51432377
Alduin is an aspect of Akatosh, who is in turn the idea of time in the world. Akatosh, since he is everywhere at once being time, has Alduin as part of many of his facets of his schizoid ego. Alduin ends the current kalpa.

The current Kalpa started before the Dawn Era. I feel like the events of convention play out before every single kalpa, and in this case we are at least the 2nd kalpa to ever exist. The first one, in reference to the 36 lessons, was this dreugh empire which the hist are also leftovers of.

>>51432357
>>51432376
Right, that's why I marked an alternate location for Sardif since Sardavar-Leed and the fort named after Alessia are located northwards of the location in that post.

>I've had a little project going on for a while where I've been writing down these settlements in a text file whenever I come across them in a text.
Quite interesting, I have to say

>>51432377
It wouldn't be the Dawn, but rather the Merethic. That, or, alternatively, Convention, if there's even a difference.

>Assume "The Dawn Era was the End of the Previous Kalpa. The new Kalpa begins with the first day of the Merethic Era."

>Is the concept of causality screwed when Alduin does his world eating?
Probably. All of the above. Each Convention is the Convention I guess.

>>51432390
Well then, I guess the quote about the Mephalite is relevant.

Also, about the Alik'r, what are those self-exiled group of people who take out necromancy called again?

Oh, yeah:

>Devotees of Satakal the Serpent God are strewn among them, historically causing the A'likr border-states no end of strife. These revered madmen depend entirely on the charity of the other Redguards, though sometimes they rise in perilous bands, terrorizing the countryside in old Ra Gada fashion. Many, as in Rihad, go nude, rolling around in the dirt and nipping at the legs of passersby, "striking out" as if they were snakes themselves, while others perform terrible exhibitions of "shedding their skin". They have been seen rolling in the desert sand sidewinder-fashion in continuous, hundred-mile stretches, from Balhar all the way to the Nohotogrha oasis.

>>51432371
Foxes have snouts too, you know.

Really, why would there be ziggurat built by Argonians in a city that was built by Lilmothiits?

The city Hist is also only 300 years old and Lilmothiit were wiped out >700 years ago.

>>51432454
>>Also, about the Alik'r, what are those self-exiled group of people who take out necromancy called again?


I've no idea m8. I know there are some vague ties to sload in Hammerfell due to Redguard, but honestly I've no idea.

The mephala quote was very appropriate, ty for that.

Who is Auriel?
Is he a time-god like Akatosh?

>>51432553
That quote above from the PGE1 was what I was subconsciously remembering RE: ascetics in the Alik'r and why I remembered Seht worshipers instead, to clarify.

Also, I was thinking of the Ash'abah, who purify sacred places.
>They are shunned by Redguard society due to their "unclean" interactions with the risen dead

>>51432559
he's just another name for Akatosh, mainly for mer.

Main difference is interpretation, really. Aldmer legend says Auri-el hates creation and wants to help all mer escape it, while Akatosh is either neutral or against this "escape".

>>51432507
"Acended Organ Lord" is a Argonian term, and the name is a Jel name. It seems reasonable to assume that the guy is Argonian, as more things point in that direction than otherwise.

The book also says that Lilmoth has had problems with a rouge city Hist before, which is probably why the new city Hist is just three hundred years old. There has at the very least been a city Hist before this one.

In addition, the only source to ever mention the Lilmothiit (PGE3), says that they were nomadic and left few traces of their civilisation. There's also no mention that the Lilmothiit founded Lilmoth, though Blackrose is supposedly built on some of their old ruins.
Aside from the name, which is a probable Khajiiti loanword, there's not much to talk about that ties the Lilmothiit to the city of Lilmoth, at least not as much as there it that ties the city to Argonians and the Hist.

>>51432377
Kalpas start when someone in the previous kalpa achieves amaranth. Alduin's thing is completely separate from the kalpic cycle.

>>51432704
I would say a big fat Numidium style "NO" to that.

>>51432646
Hm. Yes, I guess you're right.

There also seems to be a mention of an Argonian warchief ftom Lilmoth in 2920, which was before foxes went extinct.

>>51432719
And you'd be wrong. The only evidence you have is a kirkbride post.

>>51432748
Uh, what? Are you confused? You have it backwards. The term kalpa is literally a Nordic one in reference to the world-cycles brought about by Alduin.

The conflation of kalpas with the Amaranth is an extremely fringe theory with very shaky basis, not to mention how Amaranth is already super Kirkbride-out-of-game-forum-post territory.

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>>51432748
>Kalpas start when someone in the previous kalpa achieves amaranth.
>The only evidence you have is a kirkbride post.
Pot, kettle, etc.

>>51432780
No, the only evidence for the idea that time is cyclical within this kalpa are the forum posts. The Nord myth usage actually perfectly tracks with standard amaranth lore.

>>51432816
You'll have to go a little more in-depth explaining how you reached this conclusion.

It's not that time is cyclical WITHIN a kalpa, but that the kalpa is a cycle itself.

>>51432816
I think you've got kalpa and Dream mixed up.
A dream has a cicle of kalpas happening inside it, and a new dreambegins with an Amaranth

>Alduin (World Eater): Alduin is the Nordic variation of Akatosh, and only superficially resembles his counterpart in the Nine Divines. For example, Alduin's sobriquet, 'the world eater', comes from myths that depict him as the horrible, ravaging firestorm that destroyed the last world to begin this one.

>destroyed the last world to begin this one

>>51432855
I'm using the proper definition of kalpa, a cycle of amaranth. If you insist on using kirkbride fanfiction, you'll be confused.

>>51432730
The Wolf Queen also describes Lilmoth as having been ruled by a Priest-King, which seems consistent with Mere-Glim's vision of some sort of ritual and what seems to be temples.
Though this was around 3E 100, so I dunno.

It would be fun to know more about the foxes though, as what we know right now basically just amounts to "They were a folk of nomadic foxes in southern Argonia, and also they lived in Blackrose I guess". Would be nice to know the basics of their faith and culture, and how they adapted to life in the hell-swamps.

At the very least I want to know why we call them Lilmothiit, and what they called themselves.
Maybe Lilmoth was the major port in Black Marsh at the time, and it was just where most Khajiit met the foxes, so the Khajiit just ended up calling them "Those guys who live in Lilmoth".
Or maybe they actually spoke Ta'agra, which would make things even weirder.

>>51432899
but amaranth itself is kirkbride fanfiction

>>51432899
What do you mean with amaranth? Because the word itself is already kirkbride fanfiction

>its another guy rejects kirkbride to make things difficult episode

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>>51432899
Oh, I get it. You're fucking with me.

>I will talk about and use phrases that Kirkbride inserted into the lore or came up with, sometimes those entirely out-of-game, but call him fanfiction at the same time with no discretion

>>51432896
And? The Nords stumbled upon a facet of the dream, and assigned it's "end" a name, alduin, which in the nature of dreams became somewhat real within the dream.

He might just be talking about plants.

>>51432933
While paradoxically citing Kirkbride.

>>51432934
That's my c0da privilege.

Seriously, with kirkbride you have to disregard the stupid. And that one forum post is part of the stupid.

>>51432933
I think he's just pretending to be retarded.

>>51432899
"Kalpa" is actually archaic Finnish for "blade" or "sword", you dingus

>>51432946
You're reading way inbetween the lines and wildly conflating disparate elements of the lore while discarding others at random. I'm not even saying there isn't any merit to the idea, you're just being a hypocrite.

I don't even have a suitable reaction image for this.

>>51432983
>One forum post

>The bulk of his written lore on Nordic mythology concerning cycles both in and out of game
>And MULTIPLE forum posts

>One forum post

>>51432999
The lore of tes is inherently self contradictory. You have to choose something to disregard.

>>51433052
>You have to choose something to disregard.
I chose you.

Bendu Olo's Magical Ruse Cruise.

>>51433071
You chose unwisely.

>>51433086
I'll live.

>>51430338
Wait then who are supposed to be the violent shitskin invaders?

The Serbs or the Albanians?

Uh i mean the Bretons or the Nords.

>>51430985
Necromancy forcefully brings back and binds a soul to a body and the casters will.

In skyrim the dragon cultists were giving up parts of their life-force to their dragon priests in a ritual that made them all undead.

Actually as far as necromancy and all that fucked up shit go i'm kinda glad that Valenwood will be at least the sole place we won't see that shit happening.

>>51431146
Maromer.
They aren't extinct and are still being pirates to the sout of the Niben, Elswyr and Blackmarsh.
Also i'd like to finally see a race of elves being a pain in the ass for the Altmer.

>>51432704
what??

>>51432704
>Kalpas start when someone in the previous kalpa achieves amaranth.

no

>>51433771
Valenwood actually has potential for some really wicked shit because of all the Wild Hunt shifting business.

But what am I saying, the presentation will be fucked up beyond all recongnition anyway, better get ready for some Rivendell.

>>51433865
>TES VI: The Wild Hunt

huh why does this title and premise sound familiar gee

>>51433714
>invaders
Obviously Nords.

>>51433791
>a race of elves being a pain in the ass for the Altmer.
Isn't it the other way around? Apparently they got so buttfucked in 3E110 they can't do shit anymore.

Also Orgnum is an elven Shezarrine, prove me wrong.

>>51431292
Khajiit tribes are definitely a thing in Anaquina. Although, and this is just speculation, I think they'd be more common in Southern and central Anaquina.

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Speaking of Khajiit.
In "Interview With Three Booksellers" Jobasha says that
>They [Tojay and Dagi] live in the south. In the Tenmar forest and the southern jungles and marshes.

For what reason two (four?) of Khajiiti breeds all live in a specific area?
Are all Tojay and Dagi eventually sent there?
Are they only allowed to be born there?
Can they only survive there?
Are they hidden from outlanders there?

>Is that all you can tell me about them?
>Jobasha: That is all Jobasha will say.
Very suspicious.

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/interviews-3-booksellers

>>51434046
You're reading too much into it.

"They live in the south" in the same way as Jews live in Israel.

Just a bunch of people with similar ethnicity living together.

We may talk about Dagoth Ur now

>>51434090
If so, there must be disproportionally large communities of Tojo and Doge in the south anyway.
Why? Don't all Khajiit breeds have the same probability to get born?

There have been some ridiculously cool assets made for TR recently.

>>51434204
IIRC, no. The khajiit are born based on moon phases in combinations of both moons. IIRC, some combinations are way more likely than others, hence there being only one Mane, and tons of humanoid khajiit.

As far as why specific breeds of khajiit live in specific areas, I can think of several reasons:

Historical significance.
The environment is favorable (the same lore reason you don't see non humanoid khajiit outside their province).

>>51434292
Post some.
I like to look at the Skywind concept art and assets a lot.
I still think Skywind is a stupid idea, though.

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>>51434046
I'm thinking that it's just another case where Goodall had an idea, hinted to it, and then never got around to expanding it. Seeing as Jobasha doesn't even describe them, and all we know from other sources is that the Dagi are apparently naturally magical, Goodall certainly had some intention behind it.
The only other mention of it that I can recall is Mixed Unit Tactics, which I think is also a Goodall text. And Dagi are also mentioned in one of obscure texts, though not in a way that sheds any light on the situation.

So as of now it's sort of a mystery, though honestly, without further info on the subject I'd interpret it as "Tojay and Dagi are generally better adapted to the climate and the trees, so many tend to move there".

>>51434204
>Don't all Khajiit breeds have the same probability to get born?
Not really, seeing as breeding doesn't happen with the same frequency all year round. See pic related.
And practical concerns might cause more planned pregnancies.

>>51433884
>Bethesda in 2002: Hmm LotR sure is popular. . . Eureka! I've got it, we should make the next TES title very generic (((European))) fantasy setting
>Beth in 2007: Did you hear they've started production on an HBO adaption of A Song of Ice and Fire?. . . Eureka! I've got it! The next TES title will be darker in tone and more gritty, set in the north
>Beth in 2015: Wow, Witcher 3 is really blowing up. Everybody seems to love it. . . Eureka! I've got it! Picture this The Elder Scrolls VI: The Wild Hunt! Scrap everything we have so far and start over. TES6 is delayed until 2020 at the earliest

Will stereotypical wizard hats ever come back?

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>>51434318
These are for Dres out in the Deshaan. I'm kind of obsessed with them.

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>>51434311
>>51434319
Makes sense, thanks.

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>>51434328
standing

on

the

EDGE

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>>51434340
I wholeheartedly approve.

>>51434404
Morrowind is the best game because it has the best hats.

>>51433771
>i'm kinda glad that Valenwood will be at least the sole place we won't see that shit happening.
Until the questline featuring a cult of necromancers that venerate the Usurper

>>51434404
That one on the left doesn't seem very practical for seeing out of. Neither does the one on the right, but at least it has holes.

>>51432895
What the fuck is Amaranth

>>51434514
I love how helmets/masks without eyeholes look.

>>51434540
basically halfsies with CHIM, you know you are in a dream and can control the dream to some extent, but also are fine with being in the dream. your waking life is seinfeld, but when you close your eyes its the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey

>>51434540
Getting out of current Dream and becoming a new Dreamer.
Anu is First Amaranth.

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>>51434338
Unfortunately I don't think so.

>>51434567
So it's becoming self aware and realizing you live in a giant dream but being fine with all of it? So what's CHIM? Being NOT okay with it?

>>51434567
You don't have to know you're dreaming to achieve amaranth. You just have to usurp the current dreamer somehow, and become the dreamer yourself.

>>51434621
Chim is a dream character realizing they're in a dream. They gain incredible power and control over the dream, but are still figments of another creature's imagination.

Amaranth is becoming the dreamer, which may or may not involve lucidity.

>>51434625
So what happens with Amaranth? You become a giant sleeping god?

>>51434567
You're a little mixed up. It's >>51434591

Even though we don't actually know Anu is the first.

>>51434644
Pretty much. You literally become a universe.

>>51434641
>realizing they're in a dream
Not just that, normally you'd zero sum at the realization you're not real, but CHIM is when you realize it and still be like "fuck you, I might not be real but so what"

>>51434605
:(

>>51434677
So how the fuck do you become a universe? What buttfuckery is required to do that?

>>51434695
Huge amounts of love, apparently.

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CHIM is the state of mind gained upon realizing that you are part of the dream and yet you maintain your individuality (starting a new dream goes beyond that, but this part is still wonky). If you fail to maintain your individuality, you are erased from the universe, since you came to the conclusion that you don't exist.

I think though that the matter of wheter CHIM gives you god-powers or is just an elevated state of mind is up to debate.

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>>51434338
Friendly reminder that this is the only acceptable headwear for any self-respecting wizard

>>51434695
in the fanfiction comic c0da, Kirkbride established that two gay chim users fucking would produce a baby that achieves amaranth.

There's a lot of evidence that Miraak was trying to achieve it, doing whatever the hell Miraak was trying to do.

>>51434736
Do they have to be gay? Can it be any two people who have achieved CHIM? I don't understand this madness, apologies

It's worth noting that one of the more mysterious aspects of the Amaranth is sensory deprivation. Anu "hid in the sun" where he began to dream, deprived of his senses. This is mirrored in Magnus, who, in escaping the Mundus project, created the sun.

It also has links to the tonal aspects of reality and, in one of the most well known examples, the blinding of the Falmer.

>Digitals have confirmed that a subject in sensory deprivation begins to hallucinate after only twenty minutes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_deprivation#Negative_effects

>>51434762
No. That guy is being weird. Also, there is zero evidence that Miraak was attempting it.

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>>51434736
we actually know exactly what Miraak was trying to do :)

>>51434805
I always simultaneously like and hate this image for how much it reaches without just completely making shit up like other theories seem to do.

>>51434762
Nah, that was just kirkbride either being weird for the sake of being weird.

Basically, the progeny of two chim users (who can be gay or hermaphroditic or straight or whatever because chim) has a better chance than most of achieving amaranth.

>>51434765
I still think Anuad is fake and Anu is actually a cuck in denial.

>>51434843
I don't think it was weird. I think it was a very deliberate choice that goes back to before Morrowind was even in development.

>>51434843
>has a better chance than most of achieving amaranth
Does he explain why though? What relevance does the parentage even have


Also, why didn't Anu dream-resurrect his gf? Just Padomay
What a cuck

>>51434893
Anu probably isn't aware that he's dreaming.

>>51434893
Yeah, it's actually really cut and dry. It has less to do with parentage or even CHIM than it has to do with mending the split between Lorkhan and Akatosh.

Also, Anu did.

Also, you're an idiot.

>>51434913
You too, dude

I think people are taking the "Dream" term a bit too seriously. It's just a metaphor.
Anu isn't literally just some sleeping dude, it's just that using terms and concepts related to dreaming is the easiest way to explain it all. It's a huge system creating other systems within it self as a form of self-reflection and discovery.

Likewise zero summing isn't the same as discovering that you're not real, it's discovering that you're not you. Once you get that you're fundamentally the same as the same of the universe, and lose all concept of individuality, you also cease to exist. Because the idea of your self is the same as your existence.

The "reality" of things doesn't have anything to do with it, everything in the Dream is equally real.

The only protection (aside from ignorance) is extreme selfish love, which lands you over in the CHIM department. Imagine being so fucking self centred that you realise that you're also everyone else, but kind of don't give a fuck because you love your self so fucking much. That's the kind of person Vivec is.

>>51434736
If you fuck Vivec it's only 50% gay.

>>51434893
>Also, why didn't Anu dream-resurrect his gf?
You need to go over the basics again.

>>51434940
To be fair, the idea of the dream does extend slightly into Anu's projection of himself and others inside the universe he's hallucinating. Which is part of the problem in the first place.

The Love thing also ties into Heaven By Violence and whatnot. I had a better grasp on this but I forgot it.

>>51434940
The dream is a great metaphor though, and has enough explanatory power to justify using it for predictive ways.

For example, it explains mantling quite well. And why gaining CHIM made vivec able to defeat Azura with his spear.

>>51434964
"My Love is accidentally shaped like a Spear."

>>51434940
>taking the "Dream" term a bit too seriously. It's just a metaphor
Same difference
If Anu is God the source of all and existence is his doing it's all an extension of himself anyway, doesn't matter if it's actually a "dream" or not though the dream applies in the sense that he's seemingly not a personal god so he's not conscious or aware of his creation

>>51434964
>The Love thing

Ties more into Crowley's thoughts on the matter, do what thou wilt is the whole of the law, love is the law love under will etc.

>>51435039
Of course. I almost wrote that in my post.

This is a bit of a nitpick, but you also see people talk about zero summing and CHIM as "becoming one with everything/everyone", which also isn't really the right choice of words. Since everyone always was everyone. You don't become "one with the universe" upon enlightenment, it's always been that way.

Zero summing and CHIM are just reactions to understanding how it's always fundamentally been.

>>51435170
Ego death is how I understood it

>>51435170
All is one, when one is not apart of one, one is nothing.

When one understands they are one within one, then too, they become one.

>>51435170
My nitpick is people who say ~ is chim.
Nitpick you off a cliff.

My nitpick is black people
Can't stand them, but that's just me haha

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>>51435584

>>51435247
The ruling king that sees in another his equivalent rules nothing.

>>51435733
One can only rule what he is apart of, for one already rules him, and he rules the one. To rule is to surrender to one.

>>51435772
>>51435733
These make little sense to me and seem kind of like pretentious bullshit but it might be my fault for failing to understand

>>51435831
the corpus hermeticum

>>51435831
The "ruling king" one is from Sermon 11.

It's arguably debatable if it's intended to be CHIM-related (though I strongly believe it to be), but it still works as a decent metaphor for selfish love.

>>51435932
It's talking about zero-summing.

>>51435948
It's talking about the Enantiomorph

>>51435831
The "ruling king" is the one who achived CHIM (CHIM=royalty).
"Seeing in another his equivalent" means realizing the "dream"and yet not being able to maintain the sence of I, to be lost in th all-ness of it all.

This is saing that to achive CHIM you need to force your individuality over the universe to persevere. It's no coincidence Vivec learned about CHIM with Molag Bal...

>>51435977
why not both

>>51435733
You can't survive l'chaim if you don't love yourself above all else and see yourself as the most important thing in the context of your own experience >>51435772
But still recognize that while you rule your own experience that outside of it you're just part of the whole and you're ruled by it

Or something...

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>>51436039
you got it

>>51436039
>l'chaim
Oh shit I was just memein but I just realized that it means life

Fuck, I'm so deep and wise

I got some Magicka questions.

Is it infinite? It's my understanding that it pours into Mundus from the holes left by the evacuating et'Ada(?). Is magicka even something that gets "consumed"? Sure if you cast a spell like fireball, that's clearly an expenditure of energy but does that cause the magicka to just... disappear? Is there magicka entropy?

>>51428086
>Rihad
Literally Riyadh
>Skaven
wut

>>51437381
the body of the user acts as a conduit, their willpower and intelligence being a means to channel how much magicka they can use. magicka, as far as we know, is infinite, its only limitation being the user as to just how much they can use.

>>51437381
>et'Ada(?)
Specifically the Magne ge.

>>51431180
I'd love to roleplay as a dumb and pompous yet charismatic Imga. I'd wear a cape and call myself Duke, and it would be great.
Bonus if this was in UESRPG, so that I could pick up that talent that lets you replace Intelligence with Personality when calculating action points, so that he becomes a better fighter because of his majestic presence. The rest of the party will be my subjects, whether they want to or not. Pump that Personality stat really high, so that he's strangely magnetic and convincing, despite everyone agreeing that he's a annoying moron.

>>51437381
There's no reason to assume magic is limited. At the end of the day, magic just comes down asserting your Will upon the universe, and the light that seeps in from Magnus' hole is just one way to help do that. There's also no reason to think that Aetherius can "run dry". This runs on conceptual rules, not thermodynamics.

>>51428068
Was it ever explained why Dark Brotherhood went from mercenaries to edgy generic death cult?
Oblivion triggers me to no end.

>>51437660
they were once with the morag tong, and I guess either mephala didn't like the political bs or just straight up wanted to fuck around and caused a splinter ground to form. these guys originally operated by the book with padomaic bs abound, but then they dissolved due to war and internal conflicts, like you see in oblivion and skyrim.

idk the ESO lore about them so what i just said might be wrong. oblivion is arguably the smoothest operation we've seen save for the eventual infiltration by the momma's boy not getting his tendies.

>>51432633
He's separate from Akatosh now thanks to the Marukhati Selectives isn't he?

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>>51437889

>>51437889
>>51437925
>"Linked but separate time gods...Auri-El..."

So basically no. He's still as akatosh as he has always been.

>>51437711
Oh dear god anon, I can't stop laughing, "momma's boy not getting his tendies" the mental imagery is just too golden

>>51437945
need a mod that replaces the severed head with a bag of tyson's chicken tenders.

>>51437711
NM started to worship Sithis above Mephala and using unorthodox and illegal methods to achieve their goals. Eventually they had a split.

>>51437969
NM is either mephala or vehk just fucking around, unless what you're saying is some ESO stuff.

>>51437981
I ignore ESO as it's contradictory lore contradicts all other lore, not to mention I only just begun the DB questline and so far it's pretty weak and boring and hasn't brought up anything we don't know already.

>>51435170
Is it possible to objectively know that you and everything else are the same without zero summing or achieving CHIM? I can't imagine that none of the 1000+ year old mages in the games would have a solid understanding of the universe's metaphysics. Has it been explained why characters like Divayth Fyr and Sotha Sil don't have it?

>>51438101
Div and Sil are more science oriented which requires logic, something that isn't needed to achieve chim.

>>51438125
I'd theorize that logic would be anathema to achieving chim.

>I'm the figment of someone imagination
>But I also exist
>Oh wait logically I do not because I'm simply someones thought
>*Poof*

>>51434736
So, literal buttfuckery?

>>51438101
Well, one of the only people we know of that has achieved CHIM was an immortal, arguably divine, figure, who had stolen the power of arguably the most important deity in the setting, who was also trying to achieve CHIM.

It's a little above a standard immortal telvanni wizard lord's pay grade.

>>51438151
Yeah, CHIM is all about ego and feeling, Sotha Sil and Fyr are scientists. Sotha Sil especially would be too engrossed in the world to care about things like CHIM.

>>51438321
But through studying the world and understanding it wouldn't they have to at some point find out about the concepts behind CHIM, since in their universe it's not an obscure philosophical or religious concept but straight-up scientifically true that everyone is a fragment of the same dream?
Like, do they know this and not zero sum or get CHIM powers because they look at it and say "yeah whatever I don't give a shit about that"?

>>51438411
The idea of the dream is not widespread knowledge, and even then, it isn't easily truly comprehended.

Of the very very very few people who have read in a book somewhere the the universe is a dream, there are much fewer who actually believe it, and much fewer still who actually understand it.

We have an advantage of a near omniscient point of view, getting ramblings from the actual creators of the metaphysics of the setting (sort of like having a direct phone line to God). The people in universe have no such advantage.

>>51438411
The world and the dream might not be the same. Sotha's obsessions are worldly

>>51434340
>>51434404
Great House Dres is a complete mystery so I'm looking forward to what they do with it. I imagine their territories would be like a mix of Sparta and pre-civil war southern USA, with bodies of escaped slaves hanging from trees as a warning to the rest, bands of Dres hunting Argonians in the countryside and wealthy plantation owners leading local politics.

>>51434292
>>51434340
>>51434404
where are these?

>>51434318
I couldn't agree more

>>51438101
Arguably maybe sorta Sharmat.
But the proper answer is no, that's not really possible.
You're confronted with the fact that your idea of self is wrong, and you can either give up that idea and zero sum, or love yourself so fiercely that continue existing.

>>51438151
Again, zero summing is not realising that you're not real, it's realising that you're not you.

>>51438411
>But through studying the world and understanding it wouldn't they have to at some point find out about the concepts behind CHIM
No, because "studying" the world in a magical-scientific sense means that they work within certain axioms, and CHIM doesn't really fit within that. It's like saying that by making a list of all the things that can fit within a swimming pool, you'll eventually discover the ocean.
Wordly studies can only get you so far.

>it's not an obscure philosophical or religious concept but straight-up scientifically true that everyone is a fragment of the same dream
It is obscure, and it certainly isn't scientific.

>>51439826
>it certainly isn't scientific.
Isn't it pretty closely related to what the Dwemer were studying? They knew about creational subgradients and if you take that concept to its logical conclusion you find that everyone and everything is a piece of the same being.

>>51439925
Not really.
Dwemeri cosmology arguably requires that there's difference in the universe, as they're all about things changing from one state to another, though that's sort of a sidepoint.
Either way, the Dwemer studied the subgradients and discovered that the whole hierarchical system of the universe was gay and they hated it. Though not entirely unrelated, I honestly don't think it's the same as the enlightenment that causes CHIM, as that had more to do with identity and self.

>>51438101
I would think that it's possible to be aware of it on a conceptual level, I mean, Molag Bal obviously knows about for one example, but there's a difference between knowing about the concept, and actually KNOWING, the realisation of the very soul.

>>51440257
Where does Molag Bal say anything about it, or otherwise betray that he knows such a thing?

>>51440298
Sermon 12, doesn't he say it to teach Vivec about it?

>>51440298
Its in sermon twelve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wntey5M5kvc

>>51441191
God, this has so much potential

>>51441485
It's just so close to release

Why do people get so defensive about Kirkbride's writings? It's like they totally forget about LaFey, Kuhlman,and Peterson.

Thread's almost dead, so tell me about your favourite city in TES.

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>>51442255
Balmora, but Suran is nice too.

>>51442243
Uuuh who? Tes is literally Birdman's baby

>>51442255
Dawnstar is comfy.

>>51442280
>Birdman

Here's your (you)

>>51442255
Imperial city in lore (in game it was pretty shit though).

In game, probably Sadrith Mora for the weirdness of it, definitely not typical.

>>51442320
Thanks, I collect those

>>51442320
Can I get one too?

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>>51442354
>>51442339

(You)s for everyone~

>>51442354
faggot

Hello /tgesg/!

Redpill me on sload technology.

>>51442406
technology?
And learn to meme

>>51442269
Suran is filled with filth and shame, not a good place. I went there for an errand once, I hope I don't have to go back.

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>>51442447
Someone posted this last weekend. I want to know more.

>>51438020
The DB ESO questline doesn't add anything new lorewise, it's just a local guild having problems due to shitty politics and local fanatics. Nothing special. Thieves guild was much better with its cast of zany assholes.

>>51441191
What major features are missing right now? This looks genuinely playable.

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>>51431160
>reverse searched to fav it on deviant art
>it's actually an album cover
>for a power metal album
>it's also fucking amazing
h-holy shit!

https://daedrictales.bandcamp.com/album/cult-of-ashes-2

>>51442603
distant lands and minor bugfixes, mostly

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Are Tsun and Trinimac same being?
Is Trinimac a shizofrenic god like akatosh and others?
Is Trinimac a traitor and thus him being eated by Boethia?

>>51442948
Yes. Everybody is also somebody else. LadyN is just MK in a drag.

>>51443010
>LadyN

But I thought she was a cutie?

>>51443031
MK is a cutie too, your point?

>>51443039
Nobody cared who he was until he put the wig on.

I like how Kirkbride is considered some kind of creative genius that turns all he touches into gold yet everyone ignores that he's responsible for the rancid diarrhea pouring out of Telltale Games for the last few years.

>>51443090
He's only a genius when he has good source material. LaFey and Peterson are the real geniuses.

>>51443010
>engaged to be married with his tranny alter-ego
Truly a madman

>>51443090
His ideas are nice but he needs filters.

>>51443090
I stopped caring about his texts as much after the Many-Headed Bullshit.

>>51443090
>last few years
I don't think you understand how long he's been working there.

>>51443116
So you prefer how Cyrodiil appeared in Oblivion, I see.

>>51443201
As opposed to how it appeared in what else?

>>51443264
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_1st_Edition/Cyrodiil

>>51443090
>i don't like thing
That's okay.

Post argonian lore

>>51443339
>appeared

>>51443201
I prefer my lore without bullshit retcons.

>>51443394
>semantics

I said "how it appeared in Oblivion." Not, "how it appeared in that other game set in Cyrodiil before Oblivion."

>>51443401
Yeah, no, exactly. That's what I'm saying. You prefer how the province of Cyrodiil appears in the game Oblivion versus what it originally looked like. You like that there's no explanation, rhyme or reason.

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>>51443090
>>51443178
New The Elder Scrolls Adventures by Telltale when? I mean, they did it for Borderlands so why not for the franchise with richer lore that already had spin-offs? I think it could work.

>>51443437
Seriously, this would be the best thing that could ever happen to the franchise. It's absolutely perfect. It was made to happen.

>>51443451
>>51443437
why...

>>51443432
Why would you assume that? I don't like MHT because it's just a crappy tacked-on justification of Cyrod LotRification. I'd prefer if there was no retconning of Cyrod at all, and I'm very disappointed at MK for integrating it.

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>>51443462
Because Redguard was fun.

>>51443462
Because: Redguard, the linear adventure game spinoff which was written by MK, was planned to have multiple sequels.

And now: MK works at Telltale.

>>51443421
>semantics
It's literally not, Cyrodiil has been portrayed outside the Imperial city exactly once
Whatever some in-universe faggot said in an in-universe book is completely irrelevant

>>51443463
But either way, without that text, Cyrodiil appears how it does in Oblivion. Nothing changes that. It's retconned. All his text does is try to account for that and integrate it into the lore a way that makes sense.

Is Cyrodiil being New Zealand boring? Yes.

Is Cyrodiil being New Zealand, but there's a line about how Talos did it, less boring? Even a little less boring? Yes. I'd rather have that one line than not.

>>51443482
You mean
>What every single, bar none, in-universe book about Cyrodiil up to and including those that appear IN OBLIVION ITSELF described the province as